Does God Exist?

There are things that we know exist even though we can never see them, because we see their traces.  For example, we can know whether a star has a planet rotating around it even though our telescopes do not allow us to see that planet.  What we see is a small wobble in the star and we deduce that this wobble is the result of the gravitational pull of a planet. We can even calculate the size and the distance of the planet to the star by measuring the wobble.

In the subatomic world there are particles that we can’t see.  But we know for a fact that they exist because of the footprint that they leave behind.  For example, the size of string, the smallest particle of matter, in relation to an atom is believed to be that of a tree in relation to the solar system.  However, mathematical calculations lead us to believe that they exist and they provide the basis of the Theory of Everything, the theory that unites the quantum world with the Newtonian universe – the minute and the large.

So, although it is futile to search for God, we can search whether there is a footprint that we can attribute to him.  In the past people wondered who makes the rain, the wind, and forces the sun to go round.  Since they could not figure these out they thought a powerful deity must be behind each one of them.  That was the origin of polytheism.

Out of polytheism monotheism evolved.  Although the origin of monotheism cannot be traced accurately, The Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten, Marduk from tutelary of Babylon and Zoroaster (usually placed in the early Iron Age) were the earliest monotheists recorded in history.

Today, we know what causes rain, wind and makes the sun go round and we don’t attribute them to God or gods anymore.  However, we have discovered more questions such as what caused the Big Bang.  Why it went off?  When we find no answer we say it must have been God.

Recently, physicists have come up with a new theory – the M theory and the parallel universes, or the multiverse theory that if proven right it will explain what caused the Big Bang.  We may actually be very close to know the answer.  The Large Hedron Collider may provide the answer in the coming years.  This theory says that the universe is a two dimensional membrane like a sheet of paper. (M stands for membrane.)  To us it looks three dimensional, because we live in the thickness of the membrane.  Some physicists believe the universe is a bubble.  It is still a membrane but it forms a bubble, like a balloon. If you travel in one direction and keep going you will end up to where you started your journey. Inside and outside the balloon, there is nothing – no space.  It just does not exist in our dimensions.  There are infinite universes that float like bubbles – many of them just like ours.  In fact there could be duplicates of you in many of them who live different lives.  At one point they were joined with you and then they split and entered in another dimension. You can no longer contact yourself in other universes, even though they are right where you are. (For the record, I don’t believe in that. It is too weird even for the science)  Universes are constantly born and burst out of existence.  When they collide, they sometimes merge and sometimes cause a Big Bang, giving birth to a new universe.   You thought fiction is crazy?  Reality seems to be a lot stranger. Or is it that our scientists have gone mad?

The Large Hedron Collider may unveil the answer to the origin of the universe.

If this weird theory is proven right, the Big Bang would not have needed a creator.  The Big Bang can be explained in the same way that the movement of the sun in the sky is explained.   And this will force the God theorists to find another puzzle to justify God.

God provides an answer to our ignorance.  It is a theory.  The difference between this theory and scientific theories is that it allows no scrutiny.  It is based on faith.  While the proponents of scientific theories are constantly challenging their own theories and shifting its borders, the advocated of God theory will not move an inch until they are overrun by science.  Then they drag their battered theory a bit further and find another employment for God.

However, can we dismiss God altogether?  Is he superfluous?  Quantum theory posits that matter behaves either as particle or as wave, depending on whether it is observed or not.  If it is observed it acts like particle and matter is formed and if it is not observed it acts as wave and things do not materialize.  Therefore, it follows that everything you see and the world around you comes to being because someone, say you, observe it.  But as Descartes pointed out, you must exist to observe and hence someone must be observing you.   This leaves room for an ultimate observer that is not a thing and who observes everything.  It is a non being that creates the being by observing it. Could this ultimate observer be God?  Someone must be observing the universe for it to come to existence.  Does this mean that science has made God indispensable?

It is interesting to note that Hindu philosophers believed that the universe is the dream of gods. In his book Cosmos, Carl Sagan explains, “There is the deep and appealing notion that the universe is but a dream of the god who, after a hundred Brahma years, dissolves himself into a dreamless sleep. The universe dissolves with him – until, after another Brahma century, he stirs, recomposes himself and begins again to dream the cosmic dream. Meanwhile, elsewhere, there are an infinite number of universes, each with its own god dreaming the cosmic dream.”

Sagan then says, “These great ideas are tempered by another, perhaps greater. It is said that men may not be the dreams of gods, but rather that the gods are the dreams of men.”

He may be right and he may not be. He may be right because the gods that people envision are figments of their imagination.  At the same time, if the universe can exist only when it is observed, then there can be a kernel of truth in what Hindu philosophers had thought.

Could we one day find out that God exists after all?  Even if God exists, it would be a non being reality.  If God is pure consciousness, it is a non-being.  Non being realities cannot be measured, therefore they can not be demonstrated and proven. The question, “show me consciousness,” is moot. Consciousness cannot be shown or proven.

Said that, let me also say that whether God exists or not, it has nothing to do with a psychopath marauder called Muhammad.  That is where the fallacy lies.  If God exists should we believe in David Koresh,  and Joseph Koni? These sick individuals had no understanding of God. Muhammad’s definition of God is puerile and asinine.

We cannot prove or disprove the existence of God.  But we can prove that Muhammad was a mentally sick man.  This is an important distinction.  In my book, Understanding Muhammad, I have proven that the prophet of Islam was a crack pot.  If we find God, it will not be the Allah of Muhammad.  We cannot prove that God does not exist, but we can prove that Allah is the figment of the imagination of a mentally deranged man.

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  1. sekharpal says:

                            Easiest Way to prove that there is a God

    We know that at the speed of light time totally stops. With this scanty material in our hand we can easily show that there is indeed a timeless and deathless entity in our universe.

    As hardness is the property of a hard thing, so timelessness is the property of a timeless entity. We cannot think of hardness as separately existing apart from a hard thing. Similarly we cannot think of timelessness as separately existing apart from a timeless entity. So the property of timelessness is an inherent or inalienable property of a timeless entity. The timeless entity will have this property of timelessness by virtue of it being timeless, or simply by default. We need not have to search for any other reason as to how it has acquired its so-called property of timelessness. But it may also be the case that there is some other entity in our universe that will display this property of timelessness, but that will not necessarily be timeless. If we find that there is really such an entity, then the problem arises. Because in that case we cannot say that this entity possesses the property of timelessness simply by default. And we will have to find out as to how that particular entity not being itself timeless can still display the property of timelessness.

    But in our universe is there really any such entity that is not timeless, but that still possesses the property of timelessness? Yes, there is, and light is such an entity. Light has the property of timelessness, but light itself is not timeless. Light has the property of timelessness, because at the speed of light time totally stops. But light itself is not timeless, because light does not possess the most essential property of a timeless entity, which is its everlastingness. A timeless entity will also be immortal, everlasting. It can never cease to be. Death is some sort of change. I am very much alive at this moment. But at the very next moment I may die. But in the world of a timeless entity this very next moment will never arrive, because in that world time does not exist, and therefore a timeless entity will never cease to be; it will be everlasting. But we cannot say the same thing about light. We can switch any light bulb on at any time, and we can switch it off at any other time. If light were really timeless, then any light bulb once switched on would have glowed eternally, everlastingly. Our sun has burned for the last 5 billion years, and perhaps it will burn for another 5 billion years. Then one day it will also extinguish. So, although it is true that in case of light time totally stops, yet in spite of that fact we cannot say that light is timeless as well. So, even if we find that light possesses the property of timelessness, still we cannot say that it possesses this property simply by default, and the only conclusion that we can arrive at here is that it must have received this property from some other external source. But from which external source can it receive this property? Of course from that source only that will have this property of timelessness. But for having that property the source must have to be timeless, that is, that source must have that property by default only, as otherwise there will be an infinite regress.

    So, the property of timelessness of light proves that there is a timeless entity in this universe. As we have seen a timeless entity is also a deathless entity, so we can say that the property of light proves that there is a timeless and deathless entity in this universe.

    This is the only possible explanation that can be given for the so-called property of light.

    We have been compelled to arrive at this conclusion solely due to the fact that light displays the property of timelessness in spite of the fact that it itself is not timeless.  

    If there were things in this universe that were themselves not hard but that were still having the property of hardness, then we would have arrived at the same conclusion about those things also, that all those things had received their property of hardness from a hard thing that would have its property of hardness simply by default. In that case we would also have said: existence of such things in our universe proves the existence of at least one hard thing in our universe. But I think, and I can even say that I am absolutely certain about it, that nobody will be able to cite an example of such a single thing existing in this universe; the exceptional thing having the property of hardness while itself not being hard. In that respect we can even say that light is the only exception of its kind in our universe; an entity having the property of timelessness (hardness) but itself not being timeless (hard).

  2. Alloha says:

    Watch You tube At ;&nbsp ;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jhtxqpAQQE.
    Growing number of Muslims become Christians after having visions of Jesus

  3. Agracean says:

    By the way, if you have balls, please do spell my name correctly. It should read as 'Agracean' and not 'Aggression'! :@

  4. Agracean says:

    Hi DivineWind, like what I mentioned earlier, it's all about illusions and trickery. The point is that all their magical shows are being played on TV and that you are not physically there to witness all their trickeries. It's just that you are simply not aware that nowadays, illusionists can use modern technology to deceive thousands of audiences and even a cave man like you, to attain fame and popularity.

  5. DivineWind says:

    Aggression, Go n find the truth n don't need to shout yr BS here. If u cannot find out the truth u are brain dead. U have no answer to the question of how to pay the thousands of live audiences.

  6. Agracean says:

    Hi Justajoke, it's really stupid and foolish of you to believe in such magical tricks. At first, I too, was deceived by all these illusionists from USA and Taiwan and thought that they must have sold their souls to satan, in return for such magical powers. But lo and behold, there was a show that exposes all their magical tricks and now that I know, the deceptive power of such illusions using modern technology, that can really deceive millions of gullible people like you. Are you crazy when you said that qigong master is better than Jesus? Don't you know that qigong master need Jesus for eternity?

  7. Justajoke says:

    @ Grace,
    If u buy over thousands of live audiences, u go bankrupt soon enough, silly girl. He should be called " Christ's Angel ". He perform unlimited miracles n is better then Jesus.
    There is another angel from China. His name is Chuyin Lin, who uses qigong to heal many American patients when Western Medicine had failed them. Even US doctors believe his methods work. He waves his hands n the patients get healed. He is better than Jesus. See for yrself at his website n you tube at Spring forest qigong. And the testimonials. You can learn from him but not from Jesus.

  8. Agracean says:

    Hi Justajoke, like what I said earlier, you are watching an illusionist performing magical tricks on the TV and that you are not physically present on the spot to witness the whole trickery. Do you really believe that those audiences in the background were really amazed by his magical tricks? Who knows that they were fake audiences, meaning that they could be his friends or his staff or even strangers bought over by the illusionist to make the magic show as real as possible, so as to convince gullible and naïve audience like you? 😉

  9. Justajoke says:

    Grace, so easy for u to say that without personal experience. There are many audiences on the ground whose mind get freak out.

  10. Agracean says:

    Hi Justajoke, I believe that you have watched all his magic shows from the TV. It has to do with camera tricks. Nowadays, modern technology is so advanced that it can enable one to create all kinds of make believe illusions to deceive gullible human beings like you. All these 'magicians' are actually illusionists. There is also a very famous illusionist from Taiwan who can perform even greater tricks than criss angel. The truth is that all these magic tricks can only be seen on TV and not on the scene because that's what trickery is all about.

  11. Justajoke says:

    Dear Ali Sina, Have u seen Criss Angel's miracle magic shows ? They really freak your mind out. Did God;s angels help him out, or he is an angel from God.?

  12. Divine wind says:

    A good one that all religion should be aware of !!!!

    The Buddha explains…

    Be prudent, be savvy, be mindful
    The Buddha explains!
    "I will teach anyone who truly wants to learn.
    Come with me.

    "If you are right then there is no need to get angry and if you are wrong then you don't have any right to get angry.

    Patience with family is love.
    Patience with others is respect. Patience with self is confidence. Patience with GOD is faith.

    Never think hard about the PAST, it brings tears…
    Don't think more about the future, it brings fears…
    Live this moment with a smile, it brings cheers!

    Every test in our life makes us bitter or better,
    Every problem comes to make us or break us,
    The choice is ours.. whether we become victim or victorious !!!

    Search a beautiful heart.. not a beautiful face….
    Beautiful things are not always good, but good things are always beautiful.

    Remember me like a pressed flower in your notebook.

    It may not have any fragrance, but it will remind you of my existence forever in your life.

    Do you know why God created gaps between fingers? So that someone, who is special to you, comes and fills those gaps by holding your hands forever!

  13. DPhysicist says:

    Actually the thing is that Mr. Sina and Mr. Hawking or Mr. Dawkins no on needs any help ! Wake up…

  14. DPhysicist says:

    What you are saying is so dumb…

  15. TipTop says:

    Why your Iswar(Vedic God) give rewards for kicking his human ass?

  16. Truth Seeker says:

    @Ali Sina
    Why Qurani Allah too much obsessed to get himself worshiped that he punish the people for not worshiping him?

  17. everin says:

    My concept of GOD = G.O.D =
    G stands for the Generator of the universe, intelligence, energy, life n wisdom.
    O stands for the Operator of the Divine Plan n balancing act of controlling everything in the universe. The Law of Karma i.e. the Law of cause n effect is under His purview.
    D stands for the Destroyer of everything in the universe when all the energy have been exhausted n all the stars had burnt themselves out.
    Overall there are 3 dimensions of all existence : they are the Spiritual, the Astral n the Physical.
    The Spiritual level is where God dwells n other high, good spirits receive their training n enjoyment.
    The Astral level where the earthbound spirits, some of them are bad, hanging in haunted houses, caves, trees, waterfalls, jungles n where a human or an animal had met a violent death. The burning n freezing hells also existed in this level for the punishment for certain periods for the very sinful human spirits.
    The Physical level is where matter, human, animals, insects, bacteria, viruses n plant existed. They are subjected to the laws of physics, whereas spirits are free from these laws but subjected to Divine Laws.

  18. enlightened25 says:

    These things are not compatible. Is the virgin birth for example based on faith or reason?

  19. Ann says:

    FAith and reason go together they are not opposing forces. They are family. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z_DecUm624

  20. Vivekananda says:

    My brother recommended I would possibly like this web site. He used to be entirely right. This post truly made my day. You cann’t imagine simply how a lot time I had spent for this information! Thank you!

  21. drilyasharun says:

    Good article by Dr Ali Sina

  22. Hello there, You’ve performed a great job. I will certainly digg it and in my opinion recommend to my friends. I am confident they will be benefited from this web site.

  23. John K says:

    That's the "truth!"

  24. Sanada_10 says:

    Yeah, is there anyone else? The truther is the truth about how the muslim should behave. 😉

  25. John K says:

    I think Truth is anti-Islam. I think you are thinking about user "Truther".

  26. Sanada_10 says:

    Read the user named truth here, he keeps changing names actually. That's the real hatred. :p

  27. John K says:

    That is certainly an unusual statement. It sound more like you don't like the message, so you are going to shoot the messenger.

    I don't think you have really read the website. If you had, you would see it is based on facts and evidence. Facts and evidence don't have feelings. But people with preconceived notions can have an emotional reaction when they don't like the facts. Be an actor, not a reactor.

  28. James Carter says:

    I think you are extremely confused Mr Ali Sina. Your website is purely based on hate and I believe you are Islamophobic. May God direct you to the right path!

  29. Ali Sina says:

    It may be so. But does this mean I am a genius composer subconsciously when in reality I don’t play any instrument and in fact have little talent for it?

    Many dreams come from the subconscious mind. They fulfill hidden desires or answers that I cannot get on a conscious level but I get it in dream because when dreaming my neurons make new connections which allow them to solve the problem. But why would I dream music when I was not a musician and had no interest in classical music? Now this was not dream. I was fully awake. I just relaxed and listened. If I did not listen and thought of something else I could not hear it. And why I can’t do it again?

  30. enlightened25 says:

    "Countless scientists, writers and musicians have credited dream as the source of their creativity." Where does dream come from? From our Unconscious mind no? So the point to note is that the answers to your problems come from yourself. To quote the hindu monk Vivekananda “Christs and Buddhas are simply occasions upon which to objectify our own inner powers. We really answer our own prayers.”

  31. Ali Sina says:

    There is a great mystery about creativity. Temporal lobe epilepsy is called the disease of creativity. A great number of geniuses suffered from TLE. Dante, Charles Dickens, Mozart, Dostoyevsky are just a few. However it remains a mystery, how a disease, which is a defect should enable one to be more creative? Does the brain work as a computer or does it also work like a receiver, or maybe both? I think the jury is out. There is cause to believe that at least in some cases creativity or what we call inspiration may not be the product of the brain. Take my example. I used to go to bed and simply pay attention, like tuning in and within minutes I could hear the music. It was classical music. Living in Iran, this was not the kind of music I was familiar with. It wasn’t a music I had heard before or even after. How could my mind make up a music that was beyond my conscious ability to create? I still can’t compose music.

    Countless scientists, writers and musicians have credited dream as the source of their creativity.
    Paul McCartney has spoken about how the melody came to him in a dream. He was staying in a small attic room in London in 1965, while the band were filming Help!.
    He woke up with a tune in his head, he said, and immediately decided to play it.
    “I got out of bed, sat at the piano, found G, found F sharp minor 7th – and that leads you through then to B to E minor, and finally back to E. It all leads forward logically.
    “I liked the melody a lot, but because I’d dreamed it, I couldn’t believe I’d written it. I thought, ‘No, I’ve never written anything like this before.’ But I had the tune, which was the most magic thing!”
    He was still unsure whether he had merely repeated someone else’s song so he played it to anyone who would listen, but no-one could identify it. Many fans have tried to do the same.
    More stories like this here. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/80920

  32. John K says:

    Generally you just don't remember that you dreamed. If you got a good night's sleep you most certainly dreamed. Dreams are often your mind processing issues in your life. Sometimes if you awake at the right time, the insights can help you with problems you are facing.

  33. John K says:

    A personal testimonial is not the same as peer-reviewed scientific research.

  34. everin says:

    Tell me why yr consciousness must sometimes drift into dreams during sleep when all yr bodily systems except breathing have shut down,  while other times u don’t have any dream at all. Can science explain that ???

  35. everin says:

    And finally a machine to communicate with the dead. Then in 1977, American research engineer and inventor George Meek claimed to have built a machine that allowed two-way conversations with the dead. He called it Spiricom — short for "spirit communications." John G. Fuller, an investigative reporter, wrote a fascinating account of Meek's research. Fuller states: "This is a strange story. — If it is true, it represents a major breakthrough in communication beyond this life, and into the next; persuasive evidence that life continues after death. — One thing I can say with certainty: I am convinced of the honesty, integrity, and competence of those concerned" (Fuller, 1981). We have known both George Meek and John Fuller and believe that they are men of integrity. George Meek established the Metascience Corporation to carry out research and published a book to express his thoughts on life after death (Meek, 1980).
    Go to George Meek wedsites n see the videos.

  36. John K says:

    Right. It's the same as the Christian spiritual experience. In scientific terms, it is "repeatable", hence the growth of the Church, but it is not externally verifiable to constitute scientific proof.

  37. P.Srinivasan says:

    Epistemologically, it is somewhat richer than "take my word for it". It is rather like a scientific hypothesis, where we take these ideas as a starting point for sadhana, perform the experiments (sadhana), and finally experience the results, even while living here on earth (it is not a promise to be transferred to Heaven after death). Hence in its high reaches, Hinduism works precisely like Science (hypothesis-experiment-result), though in its low levels it appears like a child's story book.

    P.Srinivasan
    India

  38. P.Srinivasan says:

    Sorry, the first line should read-

    Unsublatable – an experience or knowledge that is NOT proven to be false at a later time.

  39. John K says:

    I see. So the term has a richer meaning here than the common form, "undeniable".

    In terms of epistemology or theology, then, it amounts to, "take my word for it" because it is neither provable nor disprovable, which I can live with, because it is a corollary to the debate on whether God exists or not – it cannot be proven or disproven. It also parallels the Christian claim that we know it is true by the experience with or witness from the Holy Spirit – it cannot be proven or disproven.

  40. P.Srinivasan says:

    Unsublatable – an experience or knowledge that is proven to be false at a later time.

    A simple example: the appearance of water in a desert mirage is sublated by the knowledge that there is no water.

    Many human experiences and much of human knowledge do get sublated over the course of time. From simple things like – "earth is flat" knowledge getting sublated by the inquiry into the ship-mast issue, eclipse issue etc., "earth at centre" knowledge getting sublated by Keplerian and Newtonian enquiries about the planetary orbits, to complex things like "light is wave" getting sublated by or, more correctly, subsumed into the higher idea "light is both wave and particle", to Newtonian universe getting subsumed into Einsteinian universe…..this way, much of knowledge gets sublated by or subsumed into a higher knowledge.

    The question then is, is the knowledge or experience gained by an enlightened sage like Ramana Maharishi final or is it sublatable by or subsumable into something higher? The Hindu scripture says "That knowledge is final, since It is beyond the mind where all sublation and subsumption take place. Not only that, enlightenment is not exactly knowledge, but rather the Knower itself. For the sage does not gain knowledge, but simply rests as the Knowing Consciousness. The sage rests as "I", the pure Seer, the pure Knower, bereft of the mind, and therefore of the universe.

    I added "sublatable" in my first comment, since the Hindu scriptures DO talk about several stages or layers of knowledge, experience and enlightenment, each of which is sublated by or subsumed into the next higher knowledge. Hence don't be surprised if you see some Hindu say "God has form (like Krishna)", or "God has the universe as His form", or "God is formless, but has attributes". All this is true, but is subsumed successively into higher knowledge. What I wrote was the highest and unsublatable final experience, which is identical with the "I" in all beings.

    P.Srinivasan
    India

  41. Sanada_10 says:

    God: …yyyaaawwwnn…what time is it?
    Humans: AAArrrrrhhhgggg..! o.0

  42. John K says:

    So true. Islam is more like a legal system than a philosophy.

  43. Sanada_10 says:

    We are getting deep :p … something that is rare because we keep discussing Islam the simple religion. 😀

  44. John K says:

    Both Handel and Jim Morrison spoke of receiving their music from another place.

  45. enlightened25 says:

    "The law of cause and effect". I think my understanding of it is different to how you and the physicists understand it. I think you would conceive of cause and effect as happening in time, but to me cause and effect is more of a logical law – it has more to do with the existence of things. For example, a quantum particle, or anything at all actually, is dependent on, for example, an observer. Without the observer, a thing can't be rightly said to exist.

  46. John K says:

    "All that is possible but who can say whether it is true."

    You have independent existence and consciousness. Your mind will not evaporate if God wakes up.

  47. enlightened25 says:

    "But halucination happens without a person's control. I was completly able to switch it on or off like a radio and stoped playing it when I found other more interesting thoughts." Some musicians claim their music was inspired by drug use, assuming this is true then what if instead of using a drug to trigger their creativity, they could do the same without it possible even consciously? This is what Sam Harris speculated so instead of using drugs he tried Meditation instead to see if similar effects could happen without drugs. To sum up maybe instead of a composer from another world maybe instead this music came within yourself triggered by these experiences?

  48. John K says:

    "Read his book, Ghosthunter"

    I don't think his work will qualify for peer-reviewed scientific journals. Until he works according to scientific standards, his work cannot be qualified as proof.

  49. John K says:

    "experienced it as an unsublatable fact"

    Interesting concept, but what is unsublatable about it?

  50. P.Srinivasan says:

    In response to Ali Sina's comment: "That is why in this aricle I estipulated that maybe God as the ultimate observer exists and that the universe is just a dream of God as said by Hindu sages. All that is possible but who can say whether it is true."
    ===========
    Dear Ali Sina,

    As a background, let me mention that I have been a great fan of you for a long time now. I was always fascinated by your sense of fairness, balance, love of truth and universal love of all living things. Indeed I learnt a lot from you. Prior to reading you, I would have believed that the word "Ali" and the idea "Universal Love of all that exists" are the exact antipodes of each other ! Weird is this universe. So much more for me to know and learn. Thank you Ali and my love for you.

    I just felt like adding my two cents worth to the above message of yours:

    The Hindu sages have not stopped with merely "speculating" that the universe is God's (or Self's) dream. Many of them, from time immemorial right to THIS DAY, have actually experienced it as an unsublatable fact and have permanently abided in that experience. Not only that, they teach that WE can also experience this truth for ourselves by the prescribed sadhanas (methods).

    From ancient (pre-historic) sages like Vamadeva and Yagnavalkya, to middle-age (historic) sages like Adi Sankara and Gaudapada, to recent sages like Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj, enlightened ones share their final experience as follows:
    1) The Universe is a dream-drama of God or Self
    2) God or Self is essentially All-Pervading Consciousness or Awareness, and formless
    3) Every living being in the universe is "essentially identical" with God and can actually experience That and permanently abide in that experience.

    In other words, Pure Awareness (what we call God) is playing a huge dream-drama, where He Himself (or should I say It Itself?) is playing the role of all the living beings and all the material substances that make up the universe. And by sadhana (the methods), every man and woman can rightfully "experience" this Truth even while living here on Earth (no going to Heaven etc). This is called liberation or enlightenment and is described as Supreme Peace and Bliss. After attaining enlightenment, one permanently abides in that supreme experience. It is the highest goal of Hinduism and it is open to all living beings, nay, all living beings HAVE TO finally reach that destiny.

    So, while the lower rungs of Hinduism look ridiculous, what with animal-faced gods, love stories between gods, unbelievable puranic stories and stupid ideas (such as a patently discriminative caste system), the higher rungs include dharma (righteousness) and very high ethics, and finally, the highest rungs include philosophy, enlightenment and liberation. This highest rung of Hinduism is entirely devoid of asinine notions like a personal, human-like God sitting in Heaven and rewarding and punishing tiny, little human beings for their tiny, little human mistakes.

    As a co-traveller with you in this universe on the journey towards Truth, I encourage you, if you have the time and inclination, to take a look at this "highest rung", by, say, reading about Ramana Maharishi and his teachings in the book "Who am I?" A quick google search will get you this.

    Your brother in search of Truth and Love,
    P.Srinivasan
    Trichy
    India
    Email: [email protected]

  51. everin says:

    @ Ali Sina,…….A plant has no brain but if u intend to burn its leaves, it feels agitated. It can even read yr intentions. This has been proven many years ago with electrical meters n wires. How do u explain that ??? Could it be that the plant also has a spirit body.

  52. everin says:

    It is something like your consciousness goes into the wonder land of dreams when all yr systems have shut down as if u are dead during sleep.

  53. enlightened25 says:

    "The law of cause and effect, or more specifically the laws of thermodynamics apply to the atomic universe." The law of cause and effect is not a scientific law but a logical law.

    "You can be there before going there. How as you explain that?" Thats easy you`re already there.

    "The word “spiritual” should be replaced because it is confusing." Its a little like the word "evil" but we have no good secular word that can properly express it.

  54. Agracean says:

    Dr Ali Sina, it's comical that you have a spirit man and yet, you don't believe in spirits.

  55. Ali Sina says:

    The law of cause and effect, or more specifically the laws of thermodynamics apply to the atomic universe. In the sub-atomic world they break down and become irrelevant. In this world, you don’t have to go somewhere to be there. You can be there before going there. How can you make sense of that?

    The word “spiritual” should be replaced because it is confusing. As we discover the laws of quantum physics we will slowly begin to unravel many mysteries that our ancestors called spiritual. I don’t believe in spirits. But I also don’t deny that there is a mysterious world underlying the physical world. This world is the world of quantum physics.

    Although many mystics may have had glimpses into this world since time immemorial, the true nature of this mysterious universe is just beginning to unravel to us by theoretical physicists.

  56. Ali Sina says:

    Personal experience of X does not count as evidence for Y, but it is a strong evidence for X.

    I just searched a few related words in Google and I came across this forum where other people report identical experiences about hearing music. http://www.psychic-experiences.com/real-psychic-s

    In some cases this could be auditory halucination. But halucination happens without a person’s control. I was completly able to switch it on or off like a radio and stoped playing it when I found other more interesting thoughts.

    The fact that most people have not had this experience does not make the experience invalid for those of us who had it. It is not up to you to wonder what this means, it is up to me. I believe this and similar experiences give me an insight to see the world more complex and mysterious. Blessed your soul for you seem to have the answer to everything. Alas I am perplexed and full of doubt.

  57. enlightened25 says:

    "Any time something dramatic happens to their children, my parents dream about it, even though they live in another continent." Is this impossible, often people get in trouble, sick and sometimes even die. If your parents say i feel ali is well today and they are right does that mean they are physic? But note i do not deny the possiblity of telepathy but personal experience does not count as evidence.

    "The laws that govern the atomic world are Newtonian laws. These are the laws that make sense to us. But the laws that govern the sub-atomic universe are completely different and they make no sense to us." physical laws and "spritual laws"(as you call them) are the same law or to put it into plainer language they are different manifestations of the same law, that is to say the law of cause and effect.

  58. enlightened25 says:

    "Our conscious brain is only aware of the world of now and present. In the state of drowsiness, when the wavelengths are different, we seem to be able to tune into a different world." How this is an altered states of consciousness take LSD and and a similar thing would happen. I don`t deny your experience but i do deny unfounded claims about reality based on personal experiences, just like i do not deny muhammed had intense "mystical" experiences, but i do deny he met allah, jinns and angel Gabriel.

    "What I am saying is that it is puerile to say the world is limited to what we can see and measure, when today the scientists talk of parallel universes." Well their can only be one universe (and i define the word universe here to mean everything) and certainly cannot be limited.

  59. enlightened25 says:

    "That is why in this aricle I estipulated that maybe God as the ultimate observer exists" No not a observer becuse as i explained what is created creates the creator, God is everything it cannot be a finite thing whether its a being, force, observer or the laws of physics. You cannot have a creator greater than everything.

  60. Ali Sina says:

    That is why in this aricle I estipulated that maybe God as the ultimate observer exists and that the universe is just a dream of God as said by Hindu sages. All that is possible but who can say whether it is true.

  61. Ali Sina says:

    In the case of an idea popping in your mind that can make you millions is probably your own creativity. Curiously, some inventors and musicians have given credit for their ideas to an occult world. I myself heard beautiful music when I was a child (about 11 or 12). I used to go to bed and listen to a beautiful music being played in my head. Sadly I had no understanding of music and could not write it down. I even gave up listening when the thoughts of girls became more enjoyable. The music stopped and I could never hear it again. What was that music? Where did it come? Did my mind made it all up? How? How a child with no ability to play music and not even interested in it could make up those beautiful melodies? My explanation is that my brain acted as receiver. The music was played in another dimension and I could tune into it and hear it. If only I could write that down, I could be a famous musician. Even though I was not the actual composer, it would have been played in my name because the actual composer did not belong to this wrorld.

    Our conscious brain is only aware of the world of now and present. In the state of drowsiness, when the wavelengths are different, we seem to be able to tune into a different world. Maybe our thoughts travel back and forth to another universe? Maybe they travel in time and go to future. I don’t know. What I am saying is that it is puerile to say the world is limited to what we can see and measure, when today the scientists talk of parallel universes. Condensed matter cannot travel from one universe to another, but particles may be doing it all the time. When they disappear and appear as if out of nowhere, maybe they just drop in a parallel universe and drop back. Maybe they go to the past or maybe to future.

    Quantum physics may provide answer to many enigmas that have boggled mankind for millennia, such as how can someone dream of something that has not happened and see it happen later?

    Telepathy is real. Any time something dramatic happens to their children, my parents dream about it, even though they live in another continent. Now this does not happen always and they can’t decipher their dream, until the event happens.

    I believe all of that is matter. It can be explained through the laws of physics, but the quantum physics is at its infancy. When I say I am not materialist, I mean atomist. The laws that govern the atomic world are Newtonian laws. These are the laws that make sense to us. But the laws that govern the sub-atomic universe are completely different and they make no sense to us. Then again the particles are the foundation of the atomic world.

  62. enlightened25 says:

    "The answer is that psychic ability works only when the psychic is not seeking the answer. It can reveal to you when you are in a state of non-observation." The problem with this is how do we know if it is chance or not? For example an idea for a new product might just pop into my head and some years later it is a huge success that made me millions of dollars but how could i know if it was down to psychic ablity or just my creative thinking? Anyway i admit this hypothesis could be true(though there is not one shred of evidence for it) and so i remain an agnostic on this issue until (or if) someone proves or disproves it.

  63. enlightened25 says:

    "But everything is particle. So what does this mean?" It means that all things create each other. For example The number "one" creates the number "two" and vice versa. So there can never be a creative force, or agency, or anything at all, separate from what is created. And what is created creates the creator.

    "Does it mean that we as observers affect what we see?" Yes this is the law of cause and effect which is the most fundamental law of all. Underpinning all laws must be the law of cause and effect.

  64. Ali Sina says:

    The answer is in quantum physics. What has been proven is the unpredictability of the particles. A particle acts as wave when not observed and when you try to measure it acts as particle. Somehow your instrument of measurement affects the behavior of the particle. This is like your cat dancing tango only when you don’t see her, but as soon as you look at her she behaves like a cat. Now this seems illogical, but what if you have photographs of the cat dancing tango?
    This is how weird is the word of the quantum physics. Particles behave wave when not observed. They leave the same effect that waves leave on a photo sensitive film. And yet when you try to observe and see exactly what is happening, the particles behave as particles, like ping pong balls. This experiment is made countless times and it is clear that there is no error in it. The only conclusion is that we as observers affect the behavior of the particle. But everything is particle. So what does this mean? Does it mean that we as observers affect what we see? Well that is one hypothesis.
    However, I don’t want to digress. Your question is why someone can’t deliberately predict something, such as the result of a lottery. The answer is that psychic ability works only when the psychic is not seeking the answer. It can reveal to you when you are in a state of non-observation. The moment you decide to find an answer, your thoughts take a different shape. That is why the psychics such as Edgar Casey only could do their readings in a trance.
    Since I am not a psychic myself, I can’t explain this phenomenon. However, there have been many psychics whose predictions were astoundingly accurate, and can’t be dismissed as chance.
    Here is one clip on the subject of quantum physics that shows exactly what I am talking about.

  65. enlightened25 says:

    Two contridictory statements in this "This is a weird world but it is not philosophy. It has been demonstrated and proven time and again." you then you say "They follow the same law of uncertainly demonstrated by Heisenberg, which means telepathy, psychic power and many other phenomenon that materialist deny and want us to prove in a laboratory are real and cannot be measured through any instrument." So has it been proven or not? Their is no evidence of psychic power if they were psychic how come they cannot predict the lottery or stock market? You can say ah but the problem is we cannot choose what we dream but they can when they talk to the dead how convenient. This reminds me of people who say for example when a natural disater occurs and no one is hurt look at this miracle of god
    then the following week another disater happens and thousands are killed and yet the faithfull do not give god the credit for that. Our brains are wired to look for patterns even when none exist or in other words wishfull thinking.

  66. Ali Sina says:

    Oh no! I don't agree with the materialists at all. There is a whole new science based on quantum physics that show the foundation of the universe is not as certain as the materialists believe. The rules that govern thoughts are the rules that govern the world of quantum physics. In quantum physics you deal with a world of uncertainty. In this world of the minute the particles are not subject to time or space. They can pop out of nowhere and they can be in two different places simultaneously. They also can be in the past and in the present and in future at the same time. This is a weird world but it is not philosophy. It has been demonstrated and proven time and again.

    Einstein did not believe in it, that is why he said God does not play dice. However, it is real and Heisenberg was the first to show it. Thoughts and dreams are waves and waves are manifestation of particles. They follow the same law of uncertainly demonstrated by Heisenberg, which means telepathy, psychic power and many other phenomenon that materialist deny and want us to prove in a laboratory are real and cannot be measured through any instrument.

    10 years ago I did not know about quantum physics. This knowledge would have made that argument much easier for me.

  67. enlightened25 says:

    I have read the debate you had some years ago with James Randi, Aparthib Zaman and Avijit Roy and you branded them "psedo rationalists" but now you seem to agree with them. So what are you now spiritualist or materialist?

  68. Ali Sina says:

    ” Researchers are very close to proving scientifically that consciousness survives when a person biologically dies”

    Consciousness is the function of the brain. A function cannot exist on its own without the instrument that generates it. For example life is a function of the matter. Can life exist without the matter?

  69. enlightened25 says:

    " Researchers are very close to proving scientifically that consciousness survives when a person biologically dies" Can you tell me where the consciousness of someone who is brain dead is?

  70. everin says:

    " When u die yr consciousness moves out of the physical body n operate through the etheric ( astral ) body. "
    "Ghosts are trapped in haunted houses by very powerful emotions n feeelings "
    " Researchers are very close to proving scientifically that consciousness survives when a person biologically dies" ………………………………Eddie Burks, the most famous spirit investigator in UK who could communicate with trapped spirits and released many of them from their predicaments.
    Read his book, Ghosthunter : Investigating the world of spirits and ghosts Also go to his website n see his videos.

  71. fakeman says:

    the entire universe is god ,believing or not believing is not a big issue ,religions are man made ,only religion from god is humanity, humanity religion attaches people with love, god never says for killing in name of religion, animal sacrifice, rituals and many more ,all religions claim to be from god with several errors and blind faiths. i believe on god according to my choice .we human beings are the innovated products of god who is the biggest manufacurer of us.Every human beings and animals are equal in eyes of god. God blesses you on your righteous deeds such as honesty,morality,truth,hard working etc.we are the children of almighty god , who never hate us but love us like parents,we should love every creature which has been created by nature, o human beings alwyas remember that every living organism have some contribution to our beautiful nature, neither snakes ,pigs, crocodiles and many other whom many people consider filthy have also some values.This is my view and i dont reject any views on god's existence or non-existence.

  72. John K says:

    I don't see any bushes, and I don't see how this proves or disproves any particular paradigm.

  73. everin says:

    Beating around the bushes again, John K. In another posting of yours, Calton, the boy, who had “died temporarily”said that he (his spirit) saw Jesus in heaven together with John, His apostle. His father had written a book about his son's experiences, challenging Steven Hawking’s theory. “ Unless you are born again as a spirit you cannot see the Kingdom of God “ stands corrected.

  74. John K says:

    It is common for people from primitive technologies to think that things that are possible with people with higher technologies are impossible or miracles.

  75. everin says:

    John K,  U contradicted yourself again. U have just posted 2 video websites about 2 Muslim men experiences with a spirit.  These 2 said that Jesus appeared n forgave their sins.  And even spoke to them n disappeared. No physical man could appear suddenly n the next moment fly off into thin air, defying the laws of physic.   Only spirits can do that, just like people seeing apparitions in haunted houses. Now u see it n the next second u don’t. U should remember where u had posted the 2 video websites.  

  76. John K says:

    It doesn't mean being born again as a spirit. It means being spiritually born again, that is repenting and not sinning anymore.

  77. John K says:

    If you want to believe God exists, that's fine, but his name is not Allah. The Quran and Sunna prove that Allah cannot be God. Spend more time reading on this site to inform yourself of errors from Allah and Muhammad.

  78. John K says:

    You should read the Quran and Sunna. It says Jesus was sent by Allah. It also says the Gospels and the Law are the word of Allah. You should study before you try to teach anybody anything.

  79. mendolin says:

    about jesus
    jesus is not god or was a god or gods son
    jesus did not have power
    as god does .
    god is one
    and a muslim
    have a wool and a chin
    bible not true ,just a book.
    so
    jesus not a god
    ok
    this is true 100% .

  80. mendolin says:

    dear ,

    god exist and its allah

    god is muslim

    have a wool and a chin too

    thx

    bye

  81. everin says:

    Hei, agracean, where is yr truth regarding the above posting ? Could be yr truth is psuedo truth n It clearly shown that yr belief system was corrupted long time ago. " Oh my god, oh my god, why had u forsaken me ?" I heard yr savior crying. How could this man help u when he could not save himself ?????.

  82. everin says:

    We cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. But we can prove that spirits existed among us. Just ask the paranomal investigators, the psychics n the spiritualists n they have many true, ghost stories to tell u. Test it for yrself by bringing yr dog into an haunted house n it will bark fiercely when it see an unseen (by human eye) entity. Or if it is scare, it will just run away. When animals, like cats, dogs n horses see these earth-bound spirits, they will exhibit an aggressive or fearfull behavior. If spirits existed, then the Master, Creator Spirit, God, must had existed long before. There should be no doubt about that, Ali Sina,

  83. everin says:

    @ John K n Grace, GREAT CONTRADICTION BETWEEN JESUS' STATEMENT AND CHRISTIANS' BELIEF………….Jesus said " I am telling u the truth ; NO ONE can see the Kingdom of God, unless he was born again (as a spirit). "…………….(.John 3 ; 3 )
    The Christians' belief was that he was ressurrected n risen to heaven, THE kINGDOM OF GOD without being born again ( as spirit ). Can u see the contradiction ? Please explain.

  84. John K says:

    Hey! You got own your name here now!

    Do you like the Charlee spelling better than Charlie? Or is your name legally spelled that way?

  85. John K says:

    You don't have a monopoly on truth, and Dr. Sina did not establish this site for the purposes you cite.

  86. Charlee says:

    One day When this puppy love is gravely ill n pray to Jesus for help, Jesus shouted " Didn't u see I am so tired n tortured on the cross for 1 day 2,000 years ago. And now U people made an idol of me n hang ME on the cross again for another 2 century. Don't u think I won't be tired to death. Oh, no ! I cannot help u. U have to find THE WAY to seek Divine Light, THE TRUTH that yr body is so polluted and live THE LIFE of Purification of sins n impurities from yr body before u can regain yr health. AND DON'T MAKE ANY BAD COMENTS ABOUT OTHERS TO COMMIT MORE SINS.."

  87. Agracean says:

    Alright, John K, I'll stop sharing the truth here temporarily, so as to let you guys cool down and digest the truth but don't you think that it's really selfish for a good Samaritan like me for not constantly spreading the truth here to those dying souls who so desperately need it before they breathe their last?

  88. John K says:

    Read your posts, Grace. They break down into two components:

    1 – Putting the other person's belief down

    2 – Promoting your own belief

    There is also a difference between sharing your belief when someone asks or when the topic is relevant and the way you flood the board and make it the subject of nearly every post you make.

  89. Agracean says:

    Mr everin, so you confessed that you are a stupid little fool and you love my little puppy which has the same name as you? I've read much about Johrei and I understand that it's just another religion of lies produced by Satan to deceive any gullible people through works of healing of the physical body and even, 'spiritual cleansing'. The founder of Johrei, Mokichi Okada, was dead and gone for good. Like any normal human beings, he was ignorant of what lies beyond death because he had no knowledge whatsoever about the Way, the Truth and the Life. If he knew, he would have introduced the Author of life, Lord Jesus Christ, to all his followers while still alive. Obviously, he died without realizing the ultimate truth and this is sad because we had only one life on earth. By the way, Mr Puppy love, my beloved Lord Jesus is not buried in Kashmir, he is in Heaven right now. For good sake, please stop believing in all those Islamic lies do get your facts right.

  90. Agracean says:

    John K, am I 'bashing' people when they get here? We can build an alliance with all the good Samaritans here who believe in the Golden Rule but it's really selfish for me to withold the truth from those who are spiritually blind. It's all about love.

  91. John K says:

    Sorry. ADD is Attention Deficit Disorder. Boys will be boys is an American idiom referring to the energetic and fun behavior of young boys. Teachers like to blame ADD when they cannot manage boys' behavior in class, so they put them on Retalin [Methylphenidate] to keep them sedated.

    We have to watch what we put into our bodies. We are not always as health conscious as we should be. An elderly woman commented on my eating habits by recommending that we shouldn't put food into our bodies unless it adds value.

  92. everin says:

    What is ADD n “boys will be boys “ ?  For small sicknesses n unease, most doctors will prescribe antibiotics or other anti-virus injections. In doing so, more toxins are introduced into the bodies. And most people will rely on drugs to ease their discomfort or pains. That was how Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson n many others died- -overdosed of drugs. That is why we need Divine Light to purify our bodies of these toxins n other impurities. Our bodies are as polluted as the air n the earth.  Agreed ?

  93. everin says:

    U, little fool @ puppy love, haven’t read much about Johrei  but started to make wild accusations.  Click Johrei UK/USA/Asia/Australia / Brazil n see millions of people are practicing Johrei all over the world except Islamic countries. Only those stupid n stubborn fools are left behind n start to curse God not for helping them in their sicknesses. They rely on prayers which are of little use. Christian Pastors n Buddhist monks are helping sick members of their congregations  with Divine light.  BTW Yr Way, The Truth n Life was long dead n buried in Kashmir for good. U are suffering from 2 diseases called “ puppy love “ n ‘stupidity”.  Help  , Help! Jesus !  But he is long buried in the ground. Even if the reincarnated Jesus come back u will NEVER recognize him, stupid puppy love.

  94. John K says:

    I especially hate that they invented the disease of ADD so they can medicate instead of dealing with "boys will be boys". This has got to be taking a toll on the development of our society. Population security is also an important part of national security.

  95. John K says:

    Grace, is that your only purpose in life, is to bash other people and their beliefs? We are supposed to be building an alliance of ALL faiths, including atheism [yes, it is a belief]. How can we build an alliance if you keep bashing people when they get here?

  96. Agracean says:

    Mr everin, how can your Johrei be beautiful when it is a lie created by a dead Japanese guru and it offers only fake temporal human sense of peace to it's believers while on planet earth?

  97. everin says:

    Children falling victim to increasingly medicated society
    Posted: 17 Sep 2011 06:21 AM PDT
    The numbers of children being poisoned by prescription drug overdoses has reached such a level that an American hospital has set up a special project to try and get the numbers down. The PROTECT Initiative is the work of Randall Bond MD of the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center.
    I think many adults had fallen victims far more than children.

    © The Eartth Times

  98. John K says:

    This is precisely my point. There is only one reality, but imperfect humans describe it differently according to the best of their understanding.

  99. John K says:

    Well, these are accusations against the medical establishment which could be true or untrue, and could be true of some practitioners and untrue of others.

    You could say that the industry is biased towards pharmaceutical treatments, but this is because chemistry has been one of the most successful branches of science that is well understood and practiced.

  100. everin says:

    @ John K, USA is a very big country to infiltrate n there are too many skeptics like u, esp. the rich n powerful who have their specialist doctors to care for them. Johrei may take a slow n steady approach. Many want instant miracles. Frankly speaking, most medicines are poisons as they are not our natural food n have side n after effects. Many surgeries are quite unnecessary just because the surgeons want to make money. Many specialists simply overcharge, or give unnecessary medicines n “extra” treatments to gain more profits. Some give wrong diagnosis n the patients suffer unnecessarily. Don't blame them coz they had spent fortunes to earn their medical degrees n to set up their hospitals.
    MONEY MAKES THE MEDICAL WORLD GO ROUND EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO PAY THROUGH YOUR NOSE.

  101. enlightened25 says:

    The muslims + jews believe in 1 god, christians believe in trinity and buddists no god. Muslims, jews and some christians do not believe in sprit and only ressurection others believe in sprit, some believers in reincarnation say only human to human births while others say you could be reborn as a fish, fly or even plant. Then some believe the soul stays in the material world and cannot break from the rebirth while others say it can and then returns to the spritual world. So obviously they are not decribing the same god if for example reincarnation is true then christianity cannot be true.

  102. John K says:

    Joseph Campbell takes the track that there's just one God up there, and people call him different names. The significant difference is what the different religions tell us about him and take advantage of people's desires to please God. Thus you end up with differing cultures such as Muhammad telling people to kill the unbelievers wherever you find them and Jesus telling people to love your enemies as yourself.

  103. enlightened25 says:

    So, even if it works does it mean "divine light" exists? As we know the religious claim they were healed by jesus, allah, budda, krishna or whoever. Which even if true that their belief helped to heal them, it has nothing to do with the religion as they all contradict each other.

  104. everin says:

    Johrei is beautiful because it is open to everybody. Christians, Buddhists, Hindu, Muslims n others. And they do not have to leave their faiths by practising Johrei. It helps to purify our polluted bodies of toxins so that we may not get sick easily. It definitely will help us to heal faster when we fall sick. As we all know the doctors' fees had skyrocketed. So God's mission is to help the humble ones, humble enough to accept His Light n His new-age teachings. Try the "new tea" as the old ones are stale n polluted.
    FOR GOD NOW IS "ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS." GOD IS LIGHT so said THE BIBLE. Don't blame God for not doing anything to help u.

  105. everin says:

    But now several doctors in UK are willing to carry out clinical trials on a Japanese well-being system called Johrei.
    Doctors claim the self-healing technique could help to prevent minor ailments such as eczema and flu – which could mean fewer visits to GPs and, in turn, alleviate strain on local surgeries.Some doctors are even hoping the technique might prolong the life of breast cancer victims.Johrei is a technique based on the idea that the body can purify itself with the help of Divine light. And, say its followers, it offers an effective self-healing practice for both giver and receiver. Practitioners believe that regular practice triggers a detoxification mechanism that helps strengthen the immune system and protect against infection.And, doctors are so convinced by the claims, they are preparing to study the health benefits of Johrei.The first study – due to start next month at the Imperial College of Medicine in London – will monitor women with breast cancer.The study will observe three groups each receiving different treatments. One group will receive chemotherapy, the second………………………….
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-69794/W

  106. John K says:

    I think it is the power of touch. There are medical studies about people who are deprived of physical affection getting better by hands on therapy.

  107. John K says:

    Einstein was Jewish.

    I was nine years old sitting in a Methodist church shortly after my parents had bought me Aesop's Fables and Grimm's Fairy Tales. That day I decided what the pastor was saying about Jesus was a fairy tale too. I was raised a scientific atheist from then on. That doesn't mean I was right.

  108. everin says:

    The holy books were written in simple English n we don't need a rocket scientist to interpret. He must have studied the bible since childhood. Sunday schools n bible studies n all other religious activites.

  109. everin says:

    This placebo effects "really work" for millions of people throughout the world. Click " Johrei UK ", " Johrei bangkok ", Johrei nyc " , Johrei Europe, n other johrei websites. They have beautiful temples throughout the world, esp. the ones in Bangkok n in the capital city of Brazil.

  110. everin says:

    EVIDENCE OF GOD IN HIS LIGHT ?
    In 2006 the effectiveness of Johrei healing on substance abuse and other psychological symptoms was studied. The conclusion was that participants showed significant decreases in stress and depression and physical pain after Johrei healing sessions and that Johrei healing shows promise in treatment of substance abuse.[14]In 2008 research to assess the effectiveness of Johrei treatment for non-cardiac, functional chest pain showed a significant decrease in pre and post treatment pain in the Johrei group, indicating that Johrei may have a role in treating functional chest pain.[15]

  111. xPop says:

    Regarding ressurection of Jesus to Spiritual Dimensions, he is a prophet or claimed by Christian as Son of God. Yet, why are you saying Jesus cannot be in physical form in the dimension. Adam & Eve was created physically there and stayed in the Heaven before being thrown to the Earth. So why can't Jesus? That is double standard, right? So Christians is screwed there. Suddenly, God has rules & regulations for Jesus whether to be in physical form or not before entering the Heaven?

    Remember, Jesus is Son of God/prophet. Surely God will save his ass no matter what. It's His Kingdom, so I'm pretty sure He can do whatever he want.

    LOL!

  112. Agracean says:

    Yes, Mr Commando.

  113. John K says:

    Thanks for your kind words Grace. It's nice to have a better opinion expressed than those recently posted here.

  114. Agracean says:

    My dear John K, you're really awesome…:)

  115. John K says:

    No problem at all. The important thing is that you are here.

  116. Agracean says:

    Oh, my dear John K, I don't reside in America or Canada, so I've got no idea about you at all. 😛

  117. John K says:

    No. Believe me Grace. I'm no one famous. [I've only been on TV a few times :p ]

  118. John K says:

    Ha! I didn't say your motive is to make money, I just said you would make money. Sharpen you reading skills, my boy!

    I agree the past is water under the bridge and spilled milk. You just don't need to take out your hostilities on me!

  119. everin says:

    WOW ! u are now making wild accusation. When did I say I want to rewrite anything n make money.???  Since when I became racist.??? Just a school boys’ quarrel ??? Don’t get agitated because all human histories are full of cruelties, horrors, mass murders n tragedies. We just have to accept them. Most people spend more time and energy going round problems than trying to solve them………………….Henry Ford.

  120. Agracean says:

    Hi John K, are you that famous animator?

  121. John K says:

    So now you think you have the intelligence and historical facts to rewrite the history of Western Civilization? So you think you are better than the entire Western academic process of scholarly rigor and peer-review?

    Then go ahead and write your own version of the history of Western Civilization. I'm sure you will make a lot of money with it. Even if you can't dupe the academic community into adopting as the new standard textbook, I'm sure it will appeal to anti-Western bigots.

    You need to go to the men's room to adjust your clothing. Your racism is showing. I haven't seen any facts from you. Just immature rants.

  122. everin says:

    @ John K  :  U cannot agree to disagree with the historical facts which are unpalatable to u. “ The Persecution of Christians by the Romans “ and the Inquisition” were all written in European Histories. No one can deny that other than a bigot who found these facts offensive n to be untrue. I don’t see u, as a scientist, should get irritated with these facts. Agree to disagree, my friend n u are on yr way to a better attitude in life. No need to parade yr credentials here but yr intelligence. Technology does not improve the quality of life: it improve the quality of things. Improving the quality of life requires the application of wisdom. ————— Neil Amstrong.

  123. John K says:

    You keep stereotyping me Charlie. You really don't know me or anything about me. You keep guessing, but I can assure you that you are not even close to knowing anything about me or my thought processes. I think I likely have more background and exposure to historical facts than you though.

  124. everin says:

    U are the Goliath of the mormons n the bible. Wikipedia, Arya Anand n I are the Davids of historical facts. The bible to u n Grace are all true history n the true words of God. “ Egotism is the anesthetic that lulls the pain of stupidity.”  Said Frank Leahy. And Harry S. Truman said, “ The only thing new in this world is the history you don’t know.”  “ A closed mind is a dying man.” Said by Edna Ferber.

  125. everin says:

    U are the Goliath of the mormons n the bible. Wikipedia, Arya Anand n I are the Davids of historical facts. The bible to u n Grace are all true history n the true words of God. “ Egotism is the anesthetic that lulls the pain of stupidity.”  Said Frank Leahy. And Harry S. Truman said, “ The only thing new in this world is the history you don’t know.”  “ A closed mind is a dying man.” Said by Edna Ferber.

  126. John K says:

    Nothing important. Charlie/Everin is nice, but it really irritates me when people come here and don't have the slightest idea about the people they are talking to. Muslims are worse about coming here with no education and no professional qualifications, and imposing ridiculous opinions, and then get angry when we stand up to them.

    Although Charlie doesn't know me, a click on my name would at least give a hint and show that he was wrong when he said I am not a historian. Furthermore he has no idea what my areas of expertise are and are not, but, again, my profile here does give a clue that at least I ought to be qualified to comment on the issues of the history of civilization that he is discussing.

  127. John K says:

    Encyclopedia Brittanica also disagrees with his assessment of Wikipedia's academic quality. It's sometimes okay, sometimes bad, sometimes politicized, and sometimes dhimmified, but I use it anyway as a convenient quick reference.

  128. Agracean says:

    Unbelievable! My dear John K, is it true that you write Wikipedia atricles? What articles?

  129. Sanada_10 says:

    As long as they have reliable and notable source they can. Prophet Jimmy said so.

  130. everin says:

    Anyway, not any Tom, Tick n Harry were qualified to write.

  131. Sanada_10 says:

    "world-recognized historians n other experts".

    Such as?

  132. John K says:

    You really don't know who I am.

  133. everin says:

    U should have said “ Using bad behavior of PAST  Christians …………….”   Of course, the PRESENT Christians had evolved to become very, very  good Samaritans. Sorry if all my postings have hurt anyone………………….. AMEN.

  134. everin says:

    U should realize that Wikipedia n other similar websites were researched n written by world-recognized historians n other experts. Get out coz u are not a historian.  No one want to read yr one-sided stories.

  135. Arya Anand says:

    If Jesus had said "I am that I am" meaning he was Jehovah incarnate, he must have been a lunatic or an impostor. I believe Jesus was not that kind of person and did not make such asinine statement. Four gospels are the books corrupted beyond recognition.

  136. John K says:

    I think you missed the point:

    "Using bad behavior of Christians to discredit Christianity is a fallacy."

    If this were a debate scored by judges, you would lose points for using a fallacy.

  137. everin says:

    U begin to talk like ABD. Ihsan.  I am not discrediting Christianity. All my stories were written in Wikipedia. When thousands of people killed, U should say it is bloody. When the innocent, like Copernicus n Galileo, were punished for being heretics, dirty judgment should fit the description.  Hence, it is bloody n dirty past.  U cannot whitewash what were written in History, no matter how brilliant a scientist u claimed to be.

  138. John K says:

    And just what is it you are appealing to Wikipedia's authority for? I write Wikipedia articles. As far as I can see, Wikipedia says the same thing I said.

  139. Agracean says:

    Mr everin, it looks like you've lost your dirty balls to me and no wonder, you like all kinds of BS except the truth.

  140. everin says:

    Can’t u check with Wikipedia before talk rubbish.

  141. John K says:

    No. Before Constantine's conversion, the Christians were just another local religion competing with the state religion.

  142. John K says:

    Using bad behavior of Christians to discredit Christianity is a fallacy.

    It appears you haven't read the Bible. Christ said he did not come to give peace as the world knows it. He came to bring inner peace. Saving himself and intervening to stop the evil committed by others is not part of his program.

  143. everin says:

    The Romans could not understand the Bible n started to persecute the Christians for about 3 centuries. WOW ! nearly 300 years. My God ! I think the cause was that Jesus claimed to be son of God. And they wanted to test God’s power ?

  144. everin says:

    @ Agracean,  U force me to dig up the dirty, bloody history of the church.  2  great tragedies befallen on the Christians n innocent people after the departure of that maverick Jesus.  Then the persecution of Christians by the Romans lasted for about 3 centuries. Mass Killing, burning n fed to the hungry lions for 300 years. WOW !  Next when the Christians came into power via the Roman Catholic Church n Pope, they started the  INQUISITION TO PROSECUTE the heretics, including the famous astronomers, like Copernicus n Galileo. Another round of mass murder, torture, imprisonment n burning at the stakes until the 19th century.  Why didn’t yr Creator God (Jesus) help those thousands of poor souls. Many of them died for believing in Jesus. He created the bloody mess n he ran away. At least Buddhism n Johrei do not have this bloody, dirty past. How can he help u when he could not save himself n other X’tians ?  Could it be that he made false claim that he was the son of God that made the Romans angry n persecuted the X’tians..  Don’t be a blind fool.. Go n read up in the web sites n cry.  Don’t post any more BS to me. OK ?  

  145. John K says:

    Does that mean that you are darkness since you don't comprehend it? :p

    People don't know how to read literature anymore. After a lifetime of reading technical literature, they have lost the art.

  146. Agracean says:

    Mr everin, your Johrei came from Japan and the founder was dead and return to the ground but my loving Creator God came from Heaven above. So, everything you said doesn't make sense at all.

  147. everin says:

    @Agracean,    Next time don’t quote this stupid, meaningless verse to me. Light is light n life is life. The 2 don’t mix. Light shines on darkness, darkness escapes. Comprehend what BS ?   

  148. everin says:

    Sorry, my message was wrongly sent to u due the problem with my URL which I could not get through. It was meant for TR401. I clicked “Forward” instead of “Reply” in my email. I have resent my reply.  Thanks.

  149. Agracean says:

    Mr everin, you and your Johrei are in the dark, so how can you comprehend anything relating to light?

    John 1:4-5 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

  150. everin says:

    Your accusations are full of malicious intend but without concrete evidence. So your case is dismissed.

  151. John K says:

    If he was not Jehovah, he would have been guilty of blasphemy. If you read the four gospels thoroughly, he gave plenty of indication who he was. He even asked Peter who he thought he was, and Peter answered, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." And Jesus said, "Blessed art thou Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you, but my Father which is in heaven". Matthew 16:13-17

  152. John K says:

    That was not the purpose of his mission. He performed plenty of miracles during his ministry, but miracles don't hold people.

  153. everin says:

    If resurrected from dead, he should stand his ground n scared the wits out of his enemies, who then knew that God was on his side. He could then teach the people getting more respect n more disciples. However, that was not the case.Therefore the conclusion was : he was resuscited rather than resurrected.

  154. everin says:

    @ Grace, The crux of the matter were :
    THE WAY of Jesus adventures to Tibet to study Buddhism was documented.
    THE TRUTH was he taught the Budhist doctrines in parables. The Jewish leaders never like his teaching of foreign ideas to the people n plotted to kill him.
    THE LIFE OF JESUS was saved by God through Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor who supervised the crucifixion.
    NOW u decide, pray to Jesus, a mere prophet, or the Holy Spirit ( God ) only.
    So u still believe the stories written some 2,000 years ago.

  155. everin says:

    How could he said that, knowing that it was a lie. That was like asking for a death sentence. Could this be a later addition to the bible by the over zealous Chrisrians in the early days ?.

  156. John K says:

    He retained the marks as tokens of his sacrifice, but the wounds were healed and he presented himself in a perfected resurrected body.

  157. John K says:

    He was charged with blasphemy because he told the Jews, "I am that I am", in other words, Jehovah of the Old Testament.

  158. John K says:

    Comparative literature is concerned with transmission of ideas and influences, and many things are possible, but this is in the realm of speculation.

  159. John K says:

    Doubting everything is a good policy, but the essence of Christianity is that the Holy Spirit bears witness that Jesus is the Christ, the literal Son of God, born, died, and resurrected on the third day, and the Redeemer of mankind atoning for our sins. We can argue historical events in the Bible, but these fundamentals remain unchanged.

  160. everin says:

    The ancient books of Hindus are called Puranas. One book, Bhavishya Maha Purana (written in Sanskrit) contains an account of a king of India, Salivahana meeting "Isa-Masiha" (Jesus the Messiah)- a religious personage of fair complexion who was a foreigner.Buddhist texts contain a prophecy of future Buddha, a bodhisattva, named 'Bagwa Metteyya' a Pali phrase which literally means "fair-complexioned", or "white traveller". The etymological resemblance of the word "Metteyya" to "Messiah" is established and one meaning of the word "Messiah" is traveler.
    Many teachings of Jesus became interwoven with Gautama Buddha's teachings. Even certain parables as recorded in the New Testament became attributed to Buddha, such as parable of the sower which is found in Buddhist texts.
    It has been proposed that the word Yuz Asaf, the name of the person entombed in Kashmir, is derived from Buddha Asaf, as Jesus would have been included in the Buddhist pantheon of saints. The term would thus mean a Buddha who rallied people, or gathered the flock of the true faith.

  161. everin says:

    @ Grace, ___Doubt everything including the bible stories of resurrection n Jesus was God n son in one ?

  162. everin says:

    Finally, when death looked imminent and he was in agony on the cross Jesus cried, "Eli Eli lama sabachthani"* (Matthew 27:45-46) because he did not expect that it would come to this end, not knowing that God had other ways to save him. This diminished the myth that he was God nor the son in one with God. He only referred himself as a son of God metaphorically as in Christian prayer " Father in heaven." The chosen ones are referred to as the sons of God.
    The truth is the truth. No apology, Grace n John K.

    * Translation: My God, my God, why have you forsaken me ?

  163. everin says:

    Yes, he could have if all the miracles he performed as reported in the bible were true. It was an irony that he could not heal himself from the wounds sustained from the crucifixion.

  164. John K says:

    He might have taken a tour of Mars and Venus too.

  165. everin says:

    •He set the crucifixion day just before the Sabbath, as Jewish law specifically prohibits bodies to hang on the cross by the start of Sabbath. Death would be unlikely to ensue within 6 hours.
    •When the time came to remove Jesus and the two others on the cross, the Jews asked Pilate to break the legs of Jesus (John 19:31). However the centurions acting on Pilate's command did not break the legs of Jesus (John 19:33). It was because he had taken these precautionary measures that Pilate was surprised when he was told that Jesus was "already dead" (Mark 15:44).
    •Roman protocol was that body would lie on the crucifixion grounds and be subjected to the elements and animals. However Pilate allowed something quite interesting to take place by deviating from standard practice. He allowed Jesus' body to be given to his disciples and not his enemies. And he was revived from unconciousness by his disciples. Of course, Jesus had an easy escape to Kashmir, his old haunt in a caravan.
    This makes a good story for John K n Grace. No Offence meant by "calling a spade, a spade."

  166. everin says:

    THE MISSING YEARS OF JESUS FROM THE BIBLE. Many authors have researched this subject and have incorporated it into their own works. For example, in her book "The Lost Years of Jesus: Documentary Evidence of Jesus' 17-Year Journey to the East", Elizabeth Clare Prophet asserts that Buddhist manuscripts provide evidence that Jesus traveled to India, Nepal, Ladakh and Tibet.
    As a youth at age 13, Jesus followed the trade caravan to the East to look for the lost tribes of Isreal, and landed in the monastery of Hemis in Ladak to study Buddhist doctrines of Karma, Reincarnation n Spirits. He incorporated these doctrines in parables in his teachings to the Jews on his return to Judea at the age of 29. The religious leaders were apprehensive about his foreign teachings n wanted him killed and thus, the crucifixion.
    Next episode on how Pilate saved him.

  167. John K says:

    Doesn't shake me one bit. See my reply to Juste above.

  168. John K says:

    There's any number of things that could have been. He could have hung out in Jerusalem until he was completely healed and walked all the way to India with the rest of them. But I am talking about the 3rd day when he appeared to the apostles. Thomas would not have said that he wouldn't believe unless he saw the wounds because a patient in only 3 days of recuperation would be obviously wounded and unable to stand and walk among them, let alone talk without grimaces of pain. You're grasping at straws here, Charlie.

  169. John K says:

    Thanks for the link, Juste. I enjoyed both the section from the Illustrated History of Islam and the link to Chiulo-Ruiz's comment. I haven't visited FFI much since the new format makes it more difficult to follow new content, but I can see I have missed some good material by not reading.

    I must, however, take exception to Chiulo-Ruiz' other comment on his interpretation of the sealing of the Bible since the Epistles of John, and the books of Jude and James were thought to have been written after the Book of Revelation. Plus Moses makes the same comment about not adding to or taking away from the Bible, so obviously it refers to not altering the Bible, not implying that the book is closed.

    Everin and Chiulo-Ruiz are referring to different Jesus in Kashmir sources. Chiulo-Ruiz refers to Kashmiri author Mirza Gulam Ahmed who published the book Masih Hindustan Mein (Jesus in India) in 1899. Everin refers to Jesus in Kashmir: The Lost Tomb by Suzanne Olsson written in 2005.

    What this shows, of course, is that there is no shortage of such stories. In 2007 James Cameron just did a documentary called The Lost Tomb of Jesus with a book written by Jacobovici, The Jesus Family Tomb, that puts Jesus' bones in the Talpiot Tomb in Jerusalem. There was also an earlier theory put out by Russian author Nicolas Notovitch who published the book La vie Inconnue du Jesus Christ (The Unknown life of Jesus Christ) in 1894.

    What all these stories have in common is that none of them are accepted in scholarly academic circles –

    Wikipedia on Notovitch:

    "Other writers have suggested, however, that Notovitch's claims were a hoax."

    Wikipedia on Mirza Gulam Ahmed:

    "While travel between Middle-East and India was common during those times, these accounts are not given serious thought and treated as speculation since there is no historical account, either in early Christian writings or Indian historical accounts, to either confirm or refute Jesus traveling to India."

    Similarly there is no acceptance of Cameron or Olsson in academic circles. Note also that Roza Bal is in Muslim hands. Why haven't they destroyed it like other Christian sites? Because it supports their narrative.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Kashmir#Jes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roza_Bal
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talpiot_Tomb

  170. everin says:

    The story of Jesus' tomb is plausible because of the following points : 1) DNA testing by Suzanne Olsson proved the corpse is of Jewish descend. 2) To escape the Roman empire then, he had to run as far as India. 3) Resurrection was a fairy tale. Hanging for a few hours on the cross would not caused death. 4) There was no need for the Muslims to lie on Isa (Jesus) as he was revered as a prophet in Islam. 5) The local tradition had it that the entombed was a prophet from the West 200 years before Islam came to the scene. 6) If resurrected, Jesus could not fly to the Spiritual Dimension of the Holy Spirit in a physical form to escape the Roman soldiers.
    This story could shake the belief system of the Christians Sorry about that.

  171. everin says:

    They could carried him on a stretcher, on horse back, or on a cart. When there is a will there will be a way.

  172. Juste says:

    You know John, the whole story of finding Christ’s grave somewhere in the world were deliberately concocted by the muslims (in this case: Ahmaddis) you know, they were playing deception games and all.
    Here’s an example:
    THE ANTICHRIST, GOG AND MAGOG By Maulana Muhammad Ali: Published by Ahmadiyyah Anjuman Isha ‘at Islam, Lahore – West Pakistan
    Translated by M.Aftab Ud Din Ahmad First edition 1948 – Page 237.
    “Even today the followers of Hadrat Mizra Ghulam Ahmad devote much of their propagation of Islam in Europe. The reason
    is not far to seek. The main reason is to face the menace of the antichrist (Christianity). As I have mentioned earlier, it was his earnest desire to which he time and again expressed in his writings that Islam should be propagated in the West, for it is in this way that we can over power the antichrist and this is how we can kill him. The founder (Hadrat Mizra) was endowed with special
    means to bring home the truth of Islam to the Christian world. Among these is the belief in the death of Jesus Christ which snatches the heart out of the Church beliefs, for the very basis of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is alive in Heaven. The founder located the grave of Jesus Christ on this Earth”(Urdu work – Masih Hindustan men).
    All credits go to Mr. Chiulo-Ruiz. He’s very resourceful as a myth-buster.
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/recommended-reading/illustrated-history-of-islam/
    (comment section).

  173. John K says:

    A patient would have been in no condition to walk after 3 days, and his wounds would have been obvious without having had to show anyone.

  174. everin says:

    Jesus was unconcious when taken down from the cross after a few hours on the cross n was revived. ( it take a man 2-3 days to die on the cross n not half a day )
    The Gospel testimony leads precisely to that conclusion.
    Jesus shows his wounds to Thomas (John 20:25-7), showing he did not have a supernatural, resurrected body, but a patient's body.
    He hurriedly travelled away from the tomb near the locality of the crucifixion and chose to meet only his closest followers: "Go tell my brothers to leave for Galilee, and they will see me there" (Matthew 28:10)Then he escaped on "the highway" built by Alexander The Great 300 years earlier to the foothill of the HImalaya to be with some of the lost tribes of Israel. In Kashmir he was revered him as prophet with his teachings. When he died of old age they buried in a nice tomb. No reason for the lost tribe of Israel to tell lies about him. Islam only came into the picture some 600 years later.

  175. John K says:

    These kinds of stories arise everywhere concerning all kinds of topics.

  176. John K says:

    Quite a story. Survived the crucifixion and made it to India. Plus Indian holy books descend from King David.

  177. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr everin, stop being such a gullible fool. Doubt everything and you'll know the truth of the matter. How could you believe in such a silly claim without knowing the fact that the source is a lie and all the facts within this book is all lies?

  178. Agracean says:

    Dear Mr everin, the Quran a book full of lies concorted by Muhammad and the sirat and hadiths are manuals of lies concorted by the his followers of lies. So, their claims are all lies and more lies. Even the history of their holy city, Mecca and that black pillar, kaaba, are all lies. I'm patiently waiting for my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina, to write a book to expose every big and small lies found in the Quran and the hadiths, so that every muslim, who read it for the first time, will no doubt renounce this religion of despicable lies and cult.

  179. everin says:

    @ Agracean,
    Yr man of the way, the truth n the life was most probably long burried in Srinagar, Kashmir, India. Read the book, " The Tomb Of Jesus " by Roza Bal n researhed by Prof. Fida Hassnain m Suzanne Olsson. U can see pictures of his grave, too.

  180. everin says:

    @ Agracean n John K. Explain The Preserved Kashmir Tomb
    The burial place of Jesus in Kashmir is known to the locals as Rauzabal, meaning the Honored Tomb.
    It is known as the tomb of Yuz Asaf, which may be of Buddhist derivation (see link) or possibly from Yusu or Yehoshua (Jesus) the Gatherer.
    Local tradition states that the entombed was a prophet of Ahle-Kitab, or People of the Book, and his name was Isa – the Quranic name for Jesus.
    The prophet Yuz Asaf came to Kashmir from the West (Holy Land) in the reign of Raja Gopdatta (c 1st century A.D) according to the ancient official documents held by the current custodian of the tomb.
    Some of the most extensive research on the tomb has been conducted by the now retired famous historian and former Head of Archaelogy for State of Kashmir, Professor Fida Hassnain. The tomb is Jewish, as attested by the direction the grave is lying. Next to the grave is a footprint engraved in stone, an artistic rendition of the wounds of crucifixion.

    Futher info go to : alislam.org
    Thanks.

  181. John K says:

    Your stating it does not make it so. You are obviously ignorant of the 7 or 8 scholarly schools of thought on biblical archaeology, only one of which believes they are all false. Desperation is more evident in your voice. Why are you so desperate to believe as you do? What is the motive?

  182. John K says:

    Right. And I have a perpetual motion machine I can sell you really cheap.

  183. John K says:

    Oh really? What university do you work at to run your experiments? Your statement is a fallacy anyway. The fact that chemicals can be synthesized means nothing. By the third law of thermodynamics, nothing at all should exist.

  184. Frank says:

    Moreover, we have adequate explanations that addresses all the major cosmological arguments ever invented. We know for a fact that intelligent life doesn't require an intelligent designer. We've ran experiments where we produced organic matter from inorganic chemicals. We understand the chemical properties of matter, and how nature spontaneously builds things.

    In other words, all the "gaps" used by "god of gaps" arguments, don't really exist. There's some unanswered questions, but there's no longer a wide enough gap to fit a god into.

  185. Frank says:

    Here's a decent video on our universe formation.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxNbXjBbzEo&fe

    Basically, the end of the logical chain is just space, which can by itself spontaneously create a universe (and if we let statistics go to work for us, it tells us there's an infinite volume of space, and an infinite number of other universes). When you hear statements like it doesn't make sense to talk about "time" before the big bang, it's more of a metaphysical statement (it doesn't really have any physical meaning), and it depends on how one defines time. In the context of what's measurable, time and space for us only exists in the context of our universe, but this doesn't mean the background of space hasn't infinitely existed.

  186. Frank says:

    Sorry, meant to say "per se" absurd 🙂

  187. Frank says:

    The interpretation of quantum mechanics in this article is totally naive. Physicists have long ago discovered that the so called "observe effect" (in this context) is actually a function of measurement. In other words, the act of measuring causes these changes, even when we remove the observer (meaning it's a physical phenomenon). The idea is the closer you get to measuring either position or momentum, the more you physically disturb the particle. To get close enough where you can measure it's position, causes interference (and disturbs momentum). In fact scientists have developed exceedingly sensitive measuring devices that can minimize this problem (and because of all the science on measurement, we know for a fact it's a physical phenomena, this is no longer speculation).

    So there is no metaphysical anything to any of this. Furthermore, as far as religion goes, we don't even have to say the idea is per absurd (which of course it is), archeology has essentially debunked major biblical stories (like the Exodus narrative). There really is no question, except in the imaginations of theists, and this ongoing desperate delusion.

  188. John K says:

    The Bible does not declare itself to be the inerrant word of God like the Quran claims. Good chunks of it are just history books, and, as in modern history books, one account can differ from another.

  189. JASON says:

    Dr Albert Einstein had found so many scientific errors in the holy books that he came to the conclusion that all these human-created gods were so confused and ill-informed.

    Dr. Ali Sina, after detailed study of the Quran, had declared that Allah was the figment of imagination of Mohummud.

  190. everin says:

    >NEVER OFFEND THE SPIRIT OF THE DEAD
    The China Press reported about a man who claimed to have been possessed by a female spirit after he and two friends desecrated the grave of a woman.
    The three had earlier stolen the hair and fingernails of the woman, whose grave was in Malacca.
    They believed that the items could help them to force the women's spirit to predict winning numbers in the lottery draws. However, their action was said to have angered the dead woman's spirit.
    One of the men later died in an accident while the other committed suicide.
    The last man, however, managed to get rid of the spirit with the help of a medium at a Chinese temple.
    The temple medium successfully begged the ghost to leave the man's body after he apologised to her at her grave with an elaborate ritual.
    WHEN SPIRITS EXISTED, SURELY GOD, THE SUPREME SPIRIT, MUST HAVE EXISTED LONG BEFORE.

  191. Maruf says:

    According to Blaise Pascal (in article http://alisina.org/what-if-god-exists/) we should believe in God. Because if we now believe that there is no God, but after death suddenly found that there is really a God, then no scope to rectify, straight looser. But If we believe in God in this life, then we will be in safe side whether there is God exists or not. So what we have to do is to find out the only true / loving God among the Gods in various religions.

    If Dr. Ali Sina was honest, suppose one of my friends called me, Maruf come out of your home, right then I will asked him where I will live at night? If he could not provide me another home than he has no right to call me come out? My friend should first manage another better home for me if he wants me to leave my current home. But Mr. Sina is not doing that he should have at first come up with a truer / lovelier God comparing to Muslim God before asking Muslims to denounce their faith. But without giving a solution he is offering a problem. This proves that Mr. Ali Sina has something evil hidden in his mind.

    He also suggests that to live ethically this will be enough for you. I am also agree with him in this regard.

    But who will decide the ethics meaning which is bad or which is right?

    Somebody tells, looking to a woman is bad, somebody tells looking is ok but touching is bad, somebody tells shaking and kissing is ok but adultery is bad, somebody tells everything is ok if both agree. Somebody tells Gay is very bad, some tells no it is their right. Some tells to be vegetarian is right , some tells no everything which is permitted can be eaten . Some tells bikini is perfect because it reveals the whole beauty, some tells no- woman should be modestly covered. Doctors say alcohol is harmful but it is permitted in many countries. Some says gambling is bad because it looses man financially, socially but many countries has permitted it. Some says interest is not bad for economy although it can’t resist recession, others tell that Islamic banking is less affected by the recession. A robber says robbery is good because he can earn much money with less effort and enjoy a luxurious life but the victim will say it is crime.

    For these reasons laws of every country differs each other and there is a continuous clash between pro and con.

    So the question is that who will define the good or bad or set limit. It is obviously the God, the Creator. Otherwise every right or wrong i.e. ethics becomes meaningless. So Gods presence/guidance is essential.

    So what is Dr. Sina doing, he is trying to make Muslims ex, without suggesting a more true God/religion for them. He wants to bring them out of home to under the sun, rain, storm, danger. It is inhuman. He is utilizing his brilliancy, literacy for misleading people, for the evil of the society.

    [email protected]

  192. everin says:

    I think Supreme God had came to the final conclusion that useless arguments n debates about him till the end of time can only lead to wars of words, if not a world war. So He had sent someone who can generate His Light to save only the fated ones, not the sturbbon nor the cleverer-than-thou types. So go to Johrei centres n try the Light out yourself before u start arguing again with YR LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF THE SPIRITUAL WORLDS. ACTION (receiving the Light ) SPEAKS BETTER THAN WORDS.

  193. Bijay says:

    Oh Dear Grace, Tell me first what does spirit mean ? Then only I will tell you the existence of it . Ok ?

  194. Zaim says:

    This is totally foolish question that God exist or not everyone knows this answer God is exist & he is the creator planner & destroyer of everything if do know about how life comes in this planet the circulation of universe it is in its perfect way if there would be some problem or error it can be totally destroy but it never happened do you know why because there is a supreme power who is managing all things can you imagine a that a whole city made naturally with a perfect transportation because the all elements which needed are available in earth but it cant without any human Interfere so how you imagine that human cell which is impossible to make in so advance labs with great scientist was made naturally in earth atmosphere without any outsider's Interfere

  195. LORRAINE VOSS says:

    Alright you guys this one reminds me of an old scientic movie I forget the actor but the movie was called Altered State where this scientist was trying to find out where we all originally begain. As in how did life begain? What he ended up finding out was that we were all just another speck of the univesal atmosphere. He took himself so far back in existence that he almost completely disapeared looking for life or God or what have you. I have always wondered why people just can not leave well enough alone. If you wake up each morning healthy or of sound mind just be thankful for it. Live each day to the fullest surround yourself with what makes you happy and go for it. Love, love, love and eat and drink with moderation or veggies and have sex. Smell the flowers, watch the birds, they make too much noise to me but to eaches own, like I said whatever makes you tick, and do the right things(morals) and pray for a new beginning each day this is God living life and giving love to one another for a change if not but for a moment. Have a Good Day. Lorraine Voss.

  196. everin says:

    Stephen Hawking never knew why was he born to be a cripple. Is it a kind of punishment for commiting sinful deed in his past live.? Believe what he wants. Punishment will be melted to whoever deserves it in The Law of Cause and Effect = u reap what u sow. Fair enough, my friends.

  197. onlyinchrist says:

    Yes, only in Christ is the answer for HE is the Truth and the Life. Jesus is the God of the old testament and the new testament. It is Jesus Christ that is Jehovah who created Adam and Eve and who created the world and all the Universe.

    God the Father..no one had ever seen but HE existed in his own world the Throne of all the Universe. The affair of the world is all given to His son Jesus the Christ, the firstborn of many brethren.

  198. John K says:

    Colton Burpo weighs in on Stephen Hawking:
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/is-heaven-for-rea

  199. everin says:

    John, the scientist,   “ So far, no evidence of new particles has been detected.”  As noted in the last paragraph under Finding of LHC from WIKIPEDIA.  What the Hula hoop  about LHC.???  I doubt it can produce anything because it cannot achieve a speed faster than light as in creation. It cannot challenge God’s creativity.  In the Big Bang Theory of creation,  trillions upon trillions tons of matter n antimatter are produced in equal proportions. A big potion annihilated each other n nobody had noticed any by-products.  Scientists could not figured out why not all were completely destroyed. The remaining matters came to form the universe. The other portion of the antimatters were turned into Black Holes by God to save the universe..  This is a brief history of creation.

  200. everin says:

    Taty, My understanding is the tiny point (smaller than a atomic particle ) is God who consists of Yin n Yang forces spiraling one with another with supreme energy. For God there is no beginning nor end. He existed in spirit world eternally. One fine moment about 4 billions years ago that tiny dot blast out with a bang called The Big Bang Theory of creation of time, space, matter n antimatter. This is the genesis of creation of the physical world. The spirit world was n is forever there before the Big Bang n after. All energy came from God. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

  201. John K says:

    Matter and intelligence can be neither created nor destroyed. They are co-eternal.

  202. Taty says:

    Interesting article. Lots of weird comments though ^^

    As a deist I believe in a God being at the origin of the universe. I would like to point that even if scientists find the explanation for the Big Bang or another theory of the birth of our universe, well this explanation X will then need to be explained. Why X happened?
    I also don't think that God is just an easy way to explain stuff we don't understand. That goes just for people following a dogma and who believes their sacred book tells them all they have to know ^^ Because for me, as a deist, comes also the question: where does God come from?

    So no, the belief in God isn't an answer in itself.

    Where did the first spark of life come from? Scientists still can't provide answer. Where does God come from? No answer either. Some will say God was always there, the same way scientists explain than there was never "nothing", and that before the Big Bang actually all the universe was concentrated in one tiny point (they can't explain how it was possible either). Scientists tell you that before the Big Bang time didn't exist, or rather existed differently, distorted. Believers will tell you God is out of time, he wasn't born, he won't die, he's like an eternal principle.
    Opinions not very different in the end 😉

  203. John K says:

    Well, you should be interested in the LHC because that's one of the reasons it was made, to find out what happens to the anti-matter.

    By theory, matter and anti-matter should exist in equal amounts. But here in the universe we have all this matter. So the question arises, where is all the anti-matter? The LHC is designed to track the creation and life of anti-matter byproducts of the collisions.

  204. John K says:

    Give the gal a break. She's human too.

  205. everin says:

    Hey, hey, hey,  I am not interested in the LHC,  but the residue of the by-products of matter n antimatter annihilation  as mentioned by u.    

  206. John K says:

    Ha! I did my work by posting the video. You are too lazy to do your own homework!

  207. everin says:

    John,   u can only gave evasive answers.

  208. John K says:

    That is one of the purposes of the LHC. It is explained in the LHC video I posted in this thread.

  209. John K says:

    What has Joseph Smith done to offend you? I'm sure the answer is nothing. Since you seem to know nothing about him, I'm sure you are just repeating what others have told you. Since we have been asked not to discuss other religions here any longer, I invite you to bring up any questions you may have in private messaging at Freedom Bulwark. Others with questions may likewise contact me by clicking my name or avatar.

  210. everin says:

    John,;Since u said there were by-products of matter n antimatter annihilation. There should be trillions upon trillions tons of them in space. What r they n where are they now ? ;Maybe u can catch some of those residue antimatter by-product to power yr car.

  211. John K says:

    Thanks for your kind words, Marcionite.

  212. marcionite says:

    A christian with vast scientific knowledge…that's gotta piss off a lot of anti-xians.

    Go John !

  213. John K says:

    Surely you jest. You cannot be putting your layman's imagination of processes ahead of scientific knowledge.

  214. everin says:

    John, The meaning of the English word " annihilation " still stands for "complete destrution", despite all yr scientific theories.

  215. John K says:

    Your reply shows your lack of understanding of combustion. Pouring petrol into an inferno is even more inefficient than the precision metering of an internal combustion engine.

    But no matter, we were only seeking an understanding of why a matter / anti-matter reaction does not result in only one product. I think the analogy holds. You can read about reaction theory in chemistry books that will show you the equations for reactions, but when you put them into the real world industrial environment, you get by-products because physical conditions are not perfect, and the reaction for the entire batch does not go according to the book, so there are unwanted byproducts for all manufactured chemicals, even vitamin C. So you have medical and nutritional grade purities and you have industrial grade purities that cost less.

  216. everin says:

    John,    u cannot compare the combustion engine which has limited firing power with the supercharged firing power in the universe. Try pouring petrol into an inferno. Can u find any traces of petrol ?  How can u compare incomplete to complete combustion ?

  217. John K says:

    Exciting new development from the Large Hadron Collider on the God Particle.

    Dr. Michio Kaku explains Einstein's concept of the mind of God in a 2 minute video on particle physics, and relates how String Theory is the thing that eluded Einstein in the quest of the last 30 years of his life. Catch the whole article here:
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/has-the-super-col

    or just the video here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl1uHSgxrgQ

    Beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

  218. everin says:

    Thus, u have a brief description of the SPIRITUAL AND ASTRAL WORLDS from SCIENCE in the above passage from Wikipedia.

  219. everin says:

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    A parallel universe or alternative reality is a hypothetical self-contained separate reality coexisting with one's own. A specific group of parallel universes is called a "multiverse", although this term can also be used to describe the possible parallel universes that constitute physical reality. While the terms "parallel universe" and "alternative reality" are generally synonymous and can be used interchangeably in most cases, there is sometimes an additional connotation implied with the term "alternative reality" that implies that the reality is a variant of our own. The term "parallel universe" is more general, without any connotations implying a relationship, or lack of relationship, with our own universe. A universe where the very laws of nature are different – for example, one in which there are no relativistic limitations and the speed of light can be exceeded – would in general count as a parallel universe but not an alternative reality. The correct quantum mechanical definition of parallel universes is "universes that are separated from each other by a single quantum event.

  220. everin says:

    YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW —— Recently tornadoes have made so many sorties to attack America followed by hugh forest fires n later floods. I smell a rat here. This has something to do with the CIA covert wars in Loas in the sixties in which American war planes made thousands of sorties to bomb norhtern Loas n Vietnam killing almost every living creatures n burning houses, farm lands n forests for 9 long years to stop the infiltration of North Vietnamese soilders to the South. It was a terrible HOLOCAUST.—— MAN FORGOT BUT GOD NEVER.

  221. everin says:

    BAPTISM OF THE EARTH BY FIRE AND WATER. In very early civilizations men actually lived in paradise because they had plenty to eat, plenty of land to grow food, plenty fishes to catch, plenty of almost everythings n they lived peacefully n happily. As populations exploded, human beings begun fighting, raping, torturing n killing each other among themselves until today, because of the greed for power, political n religious domination, women, wealth, land etc. etc. God is not pleased n have to do a great purification of sins to renew the earth __Thus, He gave us this baptism that includes all natural disasters like earthquarkes, tornadoes, tsunami, floods, fires, holocausts, extreme solar flares,etc., etc. __Are we to go extinct like the dinosaurs did ? No, there will be some seed people around, for they have stayed in the Doomday bunker-Complexes built under strong mountains with lots of fuel for electrical power, water n food to last for a few years. I think they should have windmills on the top to produce unlimited electricity n plenty of underground water. Some good people will have protection from God in other special ways. Remember Noah's Ark ?.

  222. everin says:

    MAN POSSESSES, GOD DISPOSSESSES. This is the last straw that is going to break Uncle Sam's back. The recent hundreds of tornadoes that devasted half of America is going to bankrupt the US government, which is already in a budget deficit of trillions of USD. The US had long dominated the world with its economic n millitary powers. But this is changing fast. Various US presidents had wasted trillions of USD in its crazy n reckless wars against the communists n the Islamic terrorists. Sun Tze, the famous Chinese war strategist would have laughed at their fatal mistakes. Now every dollar the US govt. spends, nearly half of it is credit money. How long can it sustain ? Beware ! More natural disasters are on the way as this is the age of God's baptism of the earth by fire n water as predicted by the Master.

  223. John K says:

    The Periodic Table of Elements explains the existence of all elements in terms of numbers of electrons and protons. I don't know that anyone has done a study to explain the occurrence of the quantities of the various elements other than to measure them.

  224. John K says:

    Byproducts include both particles and antiparticles. Perhaps this could be analogous to incomplete combustion inside an automobile engine where even at a perfect stoichiometric ratio, the physical impediments to propagation of spark results in incomplete combustion and byproducts other than CO2 and H2O.

    After reading what the scriptures say about light, I also feel that light is the medium of the transmission of God's influence throughout the universe.

  225. everin says:

    My understanding is in the annihilating of matter n antimatter there should be no by products other than photons which dissipate in time with tremendous  energy. This energy is part of supreme energy in reverse in the Big Bang Theory of Creation of matter, antimatter, space n time. Nothing has this supreme energy other than the Almighty SU God, the Generator, Operator n Destroyer.

  226. John K says:

    NASA cannot change the laws of conservation of mass and energy. Matter may be converted to energy and back, but it cannot be destroyed. A reaction of matter and antimatter yields photons and other matter and antimatter by products.

  227. everin says:

    John K, please check with NASA SCIENCE about matter and antimatter annihilation n THE BIG BANG THEORY OF CREATION OF MATTER AND ANTIMATTER.

  228. John K says:

    Matter can neither be destroyed nor created. This is the law of conservation of matter and energy.

    Matter can be organized, which is the same concept we use when we say that a potter has created a piece of pottery. He did not create the clay and water, but did create the pottery.

  229. everin says:

    Dear Alisina,
    I can only see that the Hedron Collider can prove nothing other than to duplicte a minute part of the process of creation. Did the scientists created the raw materials (used) themselves or got it out of the thin air, which had been created by God. Any fool can also create water by burning oxygen with hydrogen. A simple process formulated by God 13.5 billions years ago. This is also part of creation, man ! But Who had created oxygen n hydrogen in the 1st place.?

  230. everin says:

    INCREDIBLE TALES OF DEATH as revealed by Meishu-sama-simplified version.__Generally speaking, there are 3 areas of a man's body at the time of his death from which his spirit leaves. There are the forehead, navel or his toes. If a person had done many good deeds n lived a virtuous life, his spirit leaves from the forehead n be sent to the pleasure plane.. If he is an average person ( who did not commit too many sins ), his spirit leaves from the navel n be sent to a training plane to be purified enough to be reincarnated. If he is an evil person, his spirit leaves from his toes n descends into hell.
    Thus, yr body died but yr spirit plus yr consciousness lives on eternally. I believe..
    From Near Death Experiences : the spirits will pass through a tunnel to see a bright, loving light of God n meet with the spirits of dead relatives. See ! they have a birthday reception party as they born into the spiritual world !. This privilege is not given to those descending into hell where they will have terrifying experiences. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  231. everin says:

    When Jesus begun his ministry, some fools who could not undertand him also called him lunatic, even worse they later sold him to the Romans, who " crucified " him.
    It is fated that u cannot be saved with God's light coz u have lots of karmic debts. Inshaala.

  232. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, after reading your above reply, I come to the ultimate conclusion that you are a lunantic. What a waste of my time and effort!

  233. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever and He's alive. Seek Him Who is greater than all those dead men or dusts that you've mentioned above.

  234. everin says:

    John, When these phenomena can happen in front of yr eyes repeatedly n u said not real ? What nonsense are u talking about ?. All scientific measurements have been taken by the paranormal investigators. All the readings are found to be abnormally high or low, n u'll feel an unexplained heavy presence or the place is very much chillier than other areas. Apparitions appear n disappear. To the ignorant, these phenomena are not true, or unknown. To the claivoyants there is an unseen living being there. Maybe one person in a hundred thousands has the sixth sense of seeing trapped spirits. Spirits are beyond science, which cannot explain why black holes are swirling round n round with tremendous energy n speed nor why the sun must burn itselt to death to sustain the world. Why the earth must go round the sun. Why the earth must rotate itself. Too many "why" science, with its great limitation, cannot answer. These are the work of the Supreme Being for yr info. .

  235. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, it's time to renounce Johrei and seek the Way, the Truth and the Life and the Truth will set you free!

  236. everin says:

    SPIRITS ARE BEYOND THE UNDERSTANDING OF SCIENCE.
    The manifestations of a spirit in a haunted house cannot be explained by science. Doors opening n banging without human hands. Lights switch on n off. Things sent flying apparently without any one doing it. In some extreme cases, human are being strangled, pushed n scracthed with unseen hands. A man's voices change when attached by the spirit, n he can display tremendous strength. These doings are beyond the laws of physics. A spirit has such power then the Supreme Being, Who is called SU God in Johrei incidently, has supreme power. Comments, please, from the smart atheists.

  237. everin says:

    Aggression.   Saint John said , “ I have yet many things to say to you, but you, including those dump fools like aggression, cannot bear.  When the spirit of Truth ( Saint man like Okada ) comes, he will speaks what he heard from God. “  Unfortunately, many fools like u cannot accept him  even though he had brought God’s LIGHT along. I know it is impossible for u to accept because yr mentality is the same as those farmers n fishermen of St. John’s  times. The Jews said that Jesus was a false prophet n the Quran says that Jesus is a bygone prophet but NOT the son of God n he was not crucified. Some one of his likeness took his place. ( Check with Islam Watch ) Mahikari said he escaped to India n Japan. Now Whom to believe ?

  238. Agracean says:

    Mr super duper stupid Charlee, I've never come across such a horrible and terrible stupid fool like you in my entire life! For goodness sake, kindly stop accusing a good samaritan like me and please act like a real man and do admit the fact that you don't understand John's message at all!

  239. everin says:

    U are a very, very, very stupid X'tian not to understand John's message. Nothing more can I say. Such a stupid fool !

  240. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee,

    John 16:12-13
    I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    No need to guess, the answer is up there. Go and read it yourself.

  241. everin says:

    Go read John 16 : 12-13 n guess whom he is referring to.

  242. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, please note that Einstein was dead and return to dust long time ago, so what makes you think that he was 'greater' than my loving Creator God, Who created the dust? Please also note that planet earth is going through birth pain now and my loving Lord Jesus Christ will definitely be coming back to this chaotic world soon to judge the earth.

  243. everin says:

    Lee, are u speaking for yr God who is so confused n ill-informed according to Einstein ? Please ask yr God to send another beloved son n bring along His light as proof of his authority to save the world because it is very chaotic now.. PLEASE.

  244. everin says:

    And Nostradamus had said, " And from the East a Great Initiate will be seen who will bring a new light. He who is awaited so expectantly will never return to Europe, but will appear in Asia."

  245. everin says:

    The Big Bang Theory of Creation is in compliance with the revelations received by Mokichi Okada in 1952. According to science, the super mega explosion started from a very small, superheated tiny dot which contains tremendous amount of energy. Immediately after the expolsion, the astral world is created. It consisted of hugh volumes of gases, mainly hydrogen, helium n lithium. They swirled, interacted n cooled down to form matters i.e. the stars, planets meotorites n others of the physical world.
    Okada had presented God as a tiny dot (a coma ) in the centre of a circle. He added that the tiny dot controls everything in the circle. He also said that God can expand n contract from that tiny dot n can travel faster than the speed of light. I believe God is at the centre of the universe n operating all happenings. The Master had received the info on this matter long before the Big Bang Theory was born.
    John 16: 12-13 " I have yet many things to say to you , but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth ; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. "

  246. John K says:

    Because they are talking about the safety of using it, not the scientific principles involved.

    The tragedy is that stem cells are available from other sources.

    Ronald Reagan said that all those who are in favor of abortion have already been born.

  247. everin says:

    This is something like the stemcell research. The US Govt. said,” no, no, this has not been thoroughly tested. It may not be safe.”  But in China, S’pore n Thailand it is used on many US citizens n found to have improved their health. Stemcell  treatment is their last resorts, but not available in the US, my friend.  WHAT MORE CAN I SAY.   

  248. John K says:

    This rumor has been identified as a hoax:
    http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/whitehouse.a

  249. John K says:

    I once thought I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

  250. John K says:

    That's not the point. The point is that it cannot be scientifically substantiated. A thousand people like me could say that we tested it and liked it. It is not the same as a scientific control group.

  251. marcionite says:

    Hinduism and Buddhism share a common thread as far as I know"

    Then you should also know that Buddhists reject the hindu notion of atman,its deities,its caste system,its most authoritative sacred texts,the Vedas along with their most sacred law book of Manu.
    No sir,Buddhism is a reaction to Hinduism.Yes,they share similar terminologies but on closer inspection their meanings differ.The hinduism that you're familiar with in the west is a severely edited version.

  252. marcionite says:

    I don't believe in reincarnation…but in a previous life I did.

  253. marcionite says:

    It's so interesting that you equated karma with an eye for an eye because that's exactly how it's viewed in the hindu context.For eg. if you kill an insect in this life then in your next life you'll be reborn as an insect who'll be killed by the same insect.

    Dude…I've killed many bugs,even more by accident.I fear I'll spend many trillion lifetimes as an insect…if I actually believed in that garbage.

  254. Agracean says:

    Mr silly Charlee, of course, I know that my dear rationalist and atheist hero, Dr Ali Sina, will never ever allow me to go near him at all because of the fact that he had been celibate for many years and he's content with his choice to give up romance, love and sex, for the sake of his good works here. Please note that I don't need you to teach me all kinds of nonsense relating to Buddhism and Johrei. Crazy man! Who needs you to give health, harmony and wealth? Keep them for yourself!

  255. everin says:

    John,  Go test yrself. ALL ARE WELCOME.

  256. P.Srinivasan says:

    Hi Ali Sina,
    Your idea that God could perhaps be the observing consciousness is indeed the Central idea of Hinduism. The popular notion of Hindu Gods having a human-like form is only a peripheral concept in Hinduism. At its central core, the Hindu scriptures aver that the Witnessing Consciousness in every conscious being (from Man to amoeba) is the Unchanging Truth, the Final Reality, and is what is called as God. Perhaps you may find it interesting to see that part of Hinduism. The 13th Chapter of the Bhagavad Gita and the whole of Mandukya Upanishad spend elaborate time on discussing the idea that the Observer is God. You may google these books if you are interested in a high-level Hindu perspective of God.

  257. John K says:

    Hi Grace. I am sorry I have returned late to your comment since Dr. Sina has asked that we refrain from religious discussions. If you would like me to answer more of your questions, I will be glad to address them in PM at Freedom Bulwark.

  258. John K says:

    Yes, you are right. If information comes from man's theory, it must be tested. But there are rigors in the scientific method before theories can be accepted as contemporary scientific thought. The experiments you cite by lone scientists are not valid until they pass peer reviewed publishing in accepted scientific journals. I can assure you that the kinds of people you are reading are not.

  259. John K says:

    Charlee wrote: "How high is yr I.Q. hah"

    I haven't met anyone with a higher score. Judging by people's writings, I would guess candidates would be Ali Sina, Daniel Greenfield, Pamela Geller, Caroline Glick, and Diana West.

  260. John K says:

    Hi Charlee,

    Sorry to come in late. Dr. Sina has asked us to stop religious discussions here. If you want answers to your questions, you may submit them in PM at Freedom Bulwark. Click my name to get the direct link to send a message. You will have to register at the site to read responses.

  261. R.Parmene says:

    The three religions of the desert, Judaism, Christianty and Islam were launched by so-called "prophets" who spent time alone in the same desert. In that desert, there grows a hallucinatory herb called qat. Since all three (Moses, Jesus and Muhammad) spent some time there without food, they probably ate some qat. Hence Mose's burning bush, Jesus's temptation by the devil and Muhammad's travels on a flying horse, etc. and the subsequent "revelations".

  262. leo420 says:

    Hello Mr. John, You seems tobequiet and may be busy learning. please feel free to ask if you need information regarding new area of study. You know your very intimidating word will not help you “You doubtless do not have my academic and professional credentials. You really have no idea who you are talking to” youare unable to fire aantiballistic cruisemissile towards me. But I really help you out from hell, if you read my stuff carefully you will see the way to God and learndebating skill. cheers From: [email protected]: John K replied to your comment on Does God Exist?

  263. Frankie Lee says:

    We all know that Ali Sina sinned by being godless.I hate to think that he will be in Hell one day with Princess Diana,and Muhammed.But which Christians do not know that Jesus is the only way to Heaven and God?
    I hope my wonderful friend will heed my advice.He wrote about Christ crucifixion and was great on many points but did he not know it was Jesus who died for him?Jesus said,don't you think those Galileans were great sinners,unless you repent you shall likewise perish.

    Ali Sina could just simply call on Christ,and not see the power of God intrude his soul,by real live experience,and power.

  264. Frankie Lee says:

    Most Christians like Ali Sina,admired his courage and rational thoughts.His reasons and common sense on Islam had insofar been precise.Which thinking person would not hearken to his words?His opponents only make irrational and foolish comments,and thus elevate Sina's points to a greater heights of acceptance and popularity.
    When one saw the evils in Islam,and how they corrupted the holiness of God,and there are real evils in this religion,then it should lead us to conclude God must have real enemies.
    God had spoken,and has not been silent.

    His words is enough for our world's acceptance,"For God so loved our world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believe in Him should not perish but shall have everlasting life".

    His words don't fall on deaf ears,we are Christians who believe in Him,and stand by His truths.Ali Sina may as well know that all his good deeds would be cow dung if he repented not his godlessness and sins,for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.As real friends of him,we spoke the truths.He will end up with Muhammad in Hell,and stay with him if he don't acknowledge God and Christ.

    Now do you think Muhammed and his wicked deeds would be left unpunished?Those who did evil in the name of Islam would just evaporate upon death?God set a day of Judgment,so Paul wrote.

  265. everin says:

    Too Many negative votes to grace, this proves people are not stupid like her! LOL
    U, silly woman, he could think out of the christian box of confused n ill-informed teachings. He was at least 100 times smarter than u, poor fool.!
    Jesus had come in the form of Mokichi Okada @ Meishsu sama, Because he got fed with u people who had broken into so many difterent sects n had been fighting each other among yrselves. Believe it 'cause he had brought God's light with him. Go test the light n u will find the truth.

  266. Agracean says:

    Mr everin, I had a good laugh after reading your above comment. I'm not surprised that you are inspired by Albert Einstein because he was the only Jew on this planet earth whom I knew who despised his Jewish birthrights and also, deny the existence of my loving Creator God. Instead, he adores Buddhism and aren't your new Johrei religion similar to that of Budhhism in the sense that both the founders of these 2 religions were dead and gone for good? How can this intelligent scientist, Albert Einstein, suddenly became so stupid? Maybe he has forgotten the fact that Jesus Christ is alive and He's coming back again!

  267. Agracean says:

    Mr john, I thank my loving Creator God for science so that we may appreciate His greatness and beauty and praise Him for His marvellous works. 🙂

  268. Johnay says:

    Too Many negative votes to grace, this proves people are not stupid like her! LOL

  269. Johny says:

    I agree, it is hard and waste of time to debate with religious people

  270. john says:

    Grace, you have science, yet you use science

  271. everin says:

    John,   What question u are talking about ? My question is still “  Why the hell is he had created the burning hell for ?” if he is so loving.   So yr imaginary God had created heaven n earth without a plan ?  And he has no manual ( Karma ) for action.  Tell me what is he doing in heaven ? I really want to know. Another interesting news how my God punished the whalers of Japan.  The tsunami had harpooned the whaling town of Akukawa, sending houses n ships few kilometers inland n rendering them out of action.  Of course, it is a sin to kill those giant, gentle mammals of the sea.  How yr Christian Faith account for the natural disasters n the ravages of diseases. Explain to me.

  272. smart thinking says:

    Grace , Now u talk of the Law of cause n effect. U begin to believe in Buddhism n Johrei. Congratulatians ! U have gone one step Higher than the bible.

  273. everin says:

    God is energy with intelligence. He divided himself in the Big Bang in a split second and created time, space and matter as in Einstein's formula E = mc2. Energy changed into matter and matter can be converted into energy. Thus , the mathematic formula 0/0 = a. "a" can stand for anything. Energy can also come in the form of light. Anti-matter and Black Holes are the necessary "evil" ( part and parcel ) in the creation of matter from energy. Thus, God created good and evil. Evil is necessary for the punishment of the sinners.
    The Big Bang started from a superheated miniscule point ( smaller than an atomic particle ). Who could have created matter, time n space from nothing other than the almighty God (Holy Spirit ) ? Aaa-men.

  274. everin says:

    John, Grace, Ali Sina n others,    A human body is also consists of 3 dimensions. His body exists in the physical world, his consciousness n thought are in the astral world and his spirit belongs to the Divine ( spirit ) world. A man falls into a coma when his consciousness n spirit left him.  Incredible tale ? Believe it.  Surf “ Near Death Experiences “ to find out the truth.  Don’t be “ a fool never learn “ .  

  275. Agracean says:

    Do you know that the devil can also masquerade himself as an angel of light and deceive even the elect? So why must you give the devil a chance to deceive you with this stupid claim? Besides that, there are also other wrong doctrines and teachings by Joseph Smith. As your sister in Christ, I cannot respect your stupidity and foolishness and must warn you of the importance that we must worship God in spirit and in truth as per Jesus's command.

    So, my dear brother John K, stop believing in Joseph Smith's lies and turn to Jesus. He has the Words of life!

  276. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr John K, you said, "Thank you for a more heart-felt reply. Let's just say that you and I have had differing experienceswith the Holy Spirit, and let me respect yours and you respect mine. Besides, this column is getting too small for more comments! "

    "This post was looking okay before you said I have been deceived by the devil for 35 years. This is again, the lack of respect of which I spoke. I testify to you that I have had the Holy Spirit with me as he has walked with me in the Mormon church, and any comment suggesting that I am with the devil or deceived is highly offensive."

    Don't you find that you are behaving exactly like a braindead zombie? When my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina, exposed the truth that Muhammad bin Abdullah was truly a false prophet, those Muslims also responded to him in the same way like you. I shared with you the truth that Jesus never ever told His disciples that there's a 'heavenly mother' in Heaven. So, why should you doubt Jesus Christ Who is you loving Creator God and He is so much greater than Joseph Smith, a self proclaimed false prophet?

  277. everin says:

    John,  The man is paying for his karmic debt incurred in his previous live.  Sure it is a good story to u, the capitalist church is doing charity work.( Sorry to have used the word “ capitalist “. )  Everybody who received aids in this kind of situation  will say the same things. Anyway, thanks for the charity work, which are good credit points in God’s accounting for the rich Christians. Ahamdullilah.

  278. everin says:

    John,  The masters received the revelations. It is up to us to believe it or not.  As in everything, we have to judge with our intelligence, knowledge n experience n the masters’ performance.  Various vigorous experiments had been tested with God’s light generated by the masters, by Dr A.K. Tebicis , a Ph.D. of science, on human, plants, animals, fruits, etc.  The common one is to cut an apple into halfs. One side received the light n the other side non. At the end of the day, the side that received the light remained fresh, n the other side had turned brown.  Join Johrei n experience with the light to prove my point. Up to u to find out who are the masters, who are the founders of Johrei n Mahikari, with clicks of yrs mouse. Science with all its limitations cannot prove the existence of God because He is in a different dimension (vibrations ).  I believe God does not want to meet any Tom, Dick n Harry, because they surely will request all kinds of things that can interfere with the Divine Plan.   Ahamdulilah = by the will of God ( an Islamic saying ).     

  279. John K says:

    But you still haven't accurately pegged me. You say recently converted. You doubtless do not have my academic and professional credentials. You really have no idea who you are talking to, yet you are condescending towards me.

    I don't come to this site to debate. I come to learn, inform and share. But I certainly won't accept challenges from arrogant people like you who do not want to learn. When you want to learn something, come back.

  280. John K says:

    Charlee, I want to talk about this type of teaching because it has no authoritative basis.

    If it were claimed to be revelation from God, we could say that someone more intelligent than us is informing us of the nature of the unknown. But you don't cite revelation from God, you only cite books written by men.

    If we are to rely on the wisdom of man, then you have to be subject to scientific method for physical matters and academic methods, rigors, and disciplines for humanistic issues, but you provide neither, and there is certainly no scientist or internationally recognized academic scholar supporting your theories. You are placing your faith in man-made philosophies.

  281. John K says:

    This post was looking okay before you said I have been deceived by the devil for 35 years. This is again, the lack of respect of which I spoke. I testify to you that I have had the Holy Spirit with me as he has walked with me in the Mormon church, and any comment suggesting that I am with the devil or deceived is highly offensive.

  282. John K says:

    Thank you for a more heart-felt reply. Let's just say that you and I have had differing experienceswith the Holy Spirit, and let me respect yours and you respect mine. Besides, this column is getting too small for more comments!

    🙂

  283. John K says:

    This is the best story I have heard from a Tsunami survivor. Please don't blame God for natural disasters or man's inhumanity to man:

    Vi‘iga Faatoia of Samoa
    Age 60

    Mayor

    First counselor in bishopric

    The tsunami that struck Samoa in September 2009 took my grandson. It took my sister’s son. I lost my home, two cars, and almost everything I owned. Nearly our entire village is moving into the hills so that this doesn’t happen again.

    I know God loves those who survived because, through the Church, He has given us new homes, food, and water. I know He loves those who did not survive because, through His power, we can be together again. We have been blessed.
    http://lds.org/liahona/2011/03/a-great-community-

  284. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, thanks for your honeymoon invitation and your silly teachings. However, I regret to inform you that I prefer to go honeymoon with my beloved rationalist hero, Dr Ali Sina instead. 🙂

  285. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, your belief and information is all wrong and mixed up.

  286. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, what has your smelly foot got to do with my loving Creator God at all? Why blame my loving Creator God who has done nothing wrong at all? Please always bear in mind the law of cause and effect. We, human beings are reaping what we sow and getting what our deeds deserve. Instead of blaming God, we all ought to humble ourselves before our loving Creator God, repent of our sins and ask for His mercy and grace!

  287. everin says:

    Grace,  Your loving God ?  MY FOOT ! Natural disasters are happening everywhere killing millions of people, Christians n others.  Your Word of Life ?  MY FOOT ! Millions of Christians are suffering from the ravage of all kind of diseases. Thousands of Christians are being prosecuted by Muslim n Hindu mobs. U have been locked up in the biblical cage for too long n not aware of the  sufferings on the world scene . U keep on Blasting out yr Christian Propaganda LIKE A RECORD PLAYER..  OH ! GOD ! PLEASE HELP THIS LOST SOUL !       aaa-men

  288. everin says:

    All existence can be subdivided into the Divine ( Spiritual ) world, the Astral ( Purgatory as called by the Catholics ) and the Physical world, where we live. They are interconnected at then same time, but at different planes ( vibrations ) of existence. The physical world is the world of 5 senses where human have bodies. The Divine ( spiritual ) world is a high level, extremely pure dimension for deities and holy spirits that have been sufficiently purified to be able to go there. The astral world is an intermediate dimension.
    Human eyes cannot see both the Divine n Astral worlds……………..From the book, " Thank God for the answers at last." Chapter 2 – What is Mahikari.- by Dr, A.K. Tebecis
    My addition is this : The Astral world is the dimension where earth-bound spirits dwell usually in haunted houses or trees. These spirits cannot go to the spiritual world because they harbour strong feelings, like the urge for revenge, grudges n attachment. They are of human or animal origin who have met their deaths in usually a voilent ways.
    Quaote from the bible : 1 Corinthians 15:44—" If there is a physical body, there is a spiritual body, "

  289. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, I empathize with your frustrations of being a poor fool for so long. So, now it's the right time for a psychopath like you to unlock this Johrei cage and fly in the big blue sky like a tweety bird.

  290. leo420 says:

    You are trullyan American, but the qutation “all men are created equal ” is actually borrowed by american's andis much older than the history of America. Would you like me to link you the sources. So far we have not seen anything scholarly from you , although people are impatient waiting for your scholarly writings. Wedon't want your introvert knowledge and spirit foamed insidean isolated heart. Thiswould be a shame for humanitynotto listen and givethe world an opportunity to explore your hidden treasure.If you are testing your ability and knowledge,you would be allocated sufficient time and resources to prepare yourself upto debating standard. Elderly people with newly conversion in faith arealways require immense amount of reading different scriptures and cultural myths. Most of time thisclass cannot last longer than five minute in a live face to face debate. I had opportunityto talksome recent converted older group and know their depthness very well. From: [email protected]: [email protected]: John K replied to your comment on Does God Exist?

  291. everin says:

    Grace,  poor fool, U had been locked up in the cage for too long n had become a psychopath.

  292. Agracean says:

    No, Mr John K, I'm not here to attack any religion or Christian Cult groups! I'm here to expose the ultimate truth so that people like you who has been deceived by the devil for more than 35 yrs, will come to the ultimate realization fo the absolute truth! By the way, only those who've been living in a lie will be offended because there's no agreement between truth and lies at all! 🙂

  293. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, I think that you've missed out Dr Ali Sina's most important point! It's not all about education and qualification but it's all about commonsense and conscience. Yes, I may not have all the knowledge as my mind is limited but one thing I know is that I know whom I serve and worship and the Holy Spirit in me will bring to my remembrance of Christ's teachings. By the way, the Holy Spirit never ever prompted me that there's a 'heavenly mother' as per your belief which is a lie. So, don't you think that I should help you to stop lying since we are brother and sister in JEsus Christ?

  294. John K says:

    People like you are the reason why Dr. Sina had a policy of only debating scholars. People like you are the reason why I should have the same policy, but I try to be a good American who believes all men are created equal, so I try to be accessible to all. But if you are not at a sufficient level to accept minimum common givens as a starting point, you are not worth debating.

  295. John K says:

    It is very disrespectful to derogate someone's religious denomination. I didn't come here to attack your denomination. You should show the same respect to others. You are behaving like a Muslim supremacist, which everyone here also finds offensive.

  296. leo420 says:

    Mr. John, I would say its better to show your scholary response rather your twisting fallacy. I also request you to come with specific topic to debate me rather wasting time for nothing. Finally, educated man cannot be speechless in right moments only people without thought are unable to answer or reply the productive thought. You don't know exactly what culture I grow up and living in. But your allegations are true for the biblical students, would you likeme referencing form your holy scriptures!!! Pl come forward with ideas and debate me and I will show you the truth. Regards From: [email protected]: [email protected]: John K replied to your comment on Does God Exist?

  297. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, kindly be informed that God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    Yes, I know that many atheists on this boar, including a Mormon like you, are irritated with me because I kept drilling the absolute truth into coconut heads out of geniune love of which none of you like it. 🙂

  298. John K says:

    No. Dr. Sina is right about Muslims. Dr. Sina has the educations and qualifications to comment on Islam.

    You are wrong about Mormons. You do not have sufficient knowledge about Christianity or Mormonism to comment intelligently about it.

    If you want to have an informed opinion, get "How Wide the Divide" which is a debate between an evangelical and a Mormon scholar.

    The debate examines the question of just exactly how much difference "divides" Mormons from mainstream Christianity.

    The result of the debate is that Mormon doctrines fall squarely within the normal range of variation between the various Christian denominations. The only sticking point is that the mainstream can't deal with where Joseph said he got it from.
    http://www.amazon.com/How-Wide-Divide-Evangelical

  299. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, now, do you know the reason why I admire my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina, so much? He has dedicated his whole lfie to help those braindead Muslims and Muslimahs because he love them knew that Islam is a cult and wanted to save the from destruction. Don't you think that I should do the same and be a good Samaritan?

  300. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, since you've finally come to the ultimate realization that Mokichi Okada was afterall a dead Japanese who was powerless to help you when you expire on planet earth, now it's the right time for you to humble yourself before my beloved Lord Jesus and receive Him into your life as your Lord and Saviour and you'll realize that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life Who loves you very much. 🙂

  301. John K says:

    I don't need to take advice from so-called Christians with lesser education and qualifications than myself.

    Your rudeness in exalting yourself while putting others down is the height of audaciousness.

    You've already irritated all the atheists on this board. Will you now irritate me as well after I have gone to bat for you?

  302. John K says:

    Your answer is totally ludicrous. This answer is philosophical in nature and in no way abrogates other verses in the Bible talking about Jesus' biological mothers and brothers and sisters.

    2 Peter 3:16
    As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    2 Peter 1:20
    Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

    If you profess to believe the Bible, any theories you develop must harmonize with all the passages that bear on the subject. All you are doing is twisting verses to support your man-made sectarian dogma. You have to develop textual analysis skills to make intelligent commentary.

  303. everin says:

    Grace, more n more of yr rubbish. If christ is alive,ask him to come n see me. And I will lecture him on his stupidity in raising up the many blind fools like u who is brain-dead on the bible. The bible is yr "cage", poor fool !

  304. Agracean says:

    Oh, my dear Mr John K, are you going to stay in this cult and wait until the successor of Joseph Smith to issue an order for mass suicide, then you realised that Mormonism is a cult? The fact that Joseph Smith's teachings are inconsistent and different from that of our beloved Lord Jesus's teachings showed that he was not from God and you need to start to doubt all his words and teachings! It's time for you to dare to doubt after spending 35 wasted years in this cult!

  305. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, this reply is from Jesus Christ to you: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

  306. John K says:

    Of more relevance would be finding answers to these questions.

  307. John K says:

    Educated men have always been speechless in response to the babblings of ignorant barbarians.

    Does your culture have no teachings concerning respect for your elders, or are you also considered rude among your own people?

  308. Agracean says:

    Yes, Mr Charlee, you've finally confessed that my loving Creator God is awesome through the display of his marvellous works spread throughout the entire Universe. So, you must be really glad to know that my loving God is the creator and sustainer of this beautiful Univerese and that both you and me are alive today because of the fact that my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ is alive!

    And because of this absolute truth that Jesus is alive, we have this blessed hope in Him. So, you may wish to note that this stupid reincarnation cycle of hopelessness is obsolete and not applicable to those who choose life.

  309. Agracean says:

    Hi Charlee, this dead Japanese guru was a mere human being like you who was spiritually blind so how can the blind lead the blind? Both will fall into the bottomless pit! The blatant truth is that only my beloved Lord Jesus Christ is qualified to help all sinners like you and me and not this dead Japanese guru. Why?

    The fact that on this troublesome planet earth, only Jesus Christ is sinless while all human beings on planet earth,including Mokichi Okada was guilty of sin. Besides that, Jesus said that He came from Heaven above while Mokichi Okada came from Japan. In addition, Jesus Christ died and rose again on the 3rd day while this dead liar, Mokichi Okada, was dead and powerless like a babe!

  310. Jonathan Harrell says:

    Psychologists observe that the majority of humans often ask existential questions such as "why we are here" and whether life has purpose.

    Some psychologists have posited that religious beliefs may recruit cognitive mechanisms in order to satisfy these questions.

  311. everin says:

    Grace, Yes, good question, my dear.  Mokichi Okada has left behind his precious teachings n the technique of transmitting God’s light. The moon goes round the earth, the earth goes the sun in endless cycles to keep u alive. Here on earth we have the water cycle n many other cycles.  So yr soul also follow an endless cycle until u are awakened n cleansed of sins. Then yr spirit will fly off a tangent to heaven to be with the Holy Spirit. No more reincarnation for u but to enjoy the peace in heaven. If there is no God’s Laws functioning in this world, Then Satan will cause mayhem, more mayhem n finally the world is doom. God will not sitting idle ( shaking balls so to speak ) or sitting in heaven waiting for more sinner to forgive n love, like the Christian Christ. He got to operate His Laws on earth, as “Thy will will be done on earth” in yr prayer. U have to  read more  books on the spiritual world to understand the complexity of it. Ahamdulilah = By the will of God= An Islamic saying.   

  312. John K says:

    I should be charitable about your bizarre post and view of Christianity and the history of Western Civilization as you are most likely not from a Western country and should be excused for your unusual beliefs since you most likely do not have access to good information. I should also be charitable and forgive your for your audacity in calling me adolescent.

  313. John K says:

    I disagree with you. If you read Dr. Sina's writings, you would see that cults have specific characteristics which do not apply to Mormonism.

  314. John K says:

    Can you name one verse where he said there is no heavenly mother? You have already rejected the testimony of Genesis. I have no more to say about it if you won't listen to scripture.

  315. leo420 says:

    <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”>Professional high quality and academic research are based on specific areas, hence may notestablish your adolescent theory of judgement.Islamicmassacre closer to 300 million lives lost on Christian sword does neither validate nor counter intuitive.Jesus live only 36 years and three years in public preaching almost half of Muhammad's life span. Muhammad could convenience his followers with his fascinating speech,social aristocracy and level of intelligence. No one doubted his ability among his followers. Nonetheless, Jesus had trouble convincing his disciples to unquestionable loyalty and to remains faithful.Peter was sceptic andhad his own hiddenpolitical agenda which forced Christ to death on the hands of Roman. But Romans were unfamiliar with Christ physical appearance and was caught due to his disciples hypocrisy. His invasion and physical punishment to Roman officials, throwing cash books, whipping them, and vandalism were outlawed according to the strictlaw of that society. As an amateur in politics Jesus didhave only an un organised vision to rebelling against the Romans. He was more of nationalist and intolerable to pharsis , but for a gentile without havingsupporters around this was a gigantic task for him. In the rudimentary society’spolitical views were assimilated with religious ideology;hence, withoutreligious view an impossible task to win over a regime change. Death of Christ makes it easierfor his political ally's to playing on the ground. He made an access way for others, But his death could be a greatest conspiracy of his own followers who among had fractions.Growing up in an underprivileged society Jesus has suffered a miserablechildhood life and hottest issue of his biological fathering was never been behind the curtain, He could only befriended with social outlandish, Street vagabond, fisherman, boties, or blacksmith of this equivalent social qualities. and was not the driver of the force. Even he had issue at with fellow learners at school. Jesus was the victim of nasty politics of his time. But we may not have the true historical tatters, as were deliberately distorted by the interest group.But I would really like to listen as you claimed, to improve my quality and wonder if you can provide that high standard of truth from your unbiased academic visions. I am not going to accept your biblical nurture of holly land doctrine. I don't find the quality of God who possesses no knowledge about his universe outside Jews Kingdom, a parallel to the story of Hindustan, where the highest God rewarded them with millions of small, medium, intermediate god, only belongs tohindukush mountain range. I wonder if biblicalGod is different than the universal God.You claimed Jews did not killed Jesus but he actually laid down,may be a new invention but I would say nevertheless fit into an academic world. Youradolescent doctrine would unjustify the persecution of millions ofJews since 12th century Europe andyou are no longer able to take the responsibility of Jews persecution. <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”>When things or word comes frombrainless effort or pre – requisite believes,can only bring chaos and lunatic culture;but I would say if you are an academic professor of a university from your lectures student may deprived from learning the truth which is inevitable for them to know. <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”> <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”>Your research and orientistic view about Hitler should no doubt take a turn of out bursting pleasure for pagan Hindu, further to publishing or selling your research material would be a suggestion of an appropriate time. <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”>You live in a paradigm called utilitarianism to seek pleasure from hopeless pain. Most elderly conversion or religious through comes from dissatisfaction of material deprivation of life. Nonetheless you are not the only victim of such situation. Big, big scriptures were revealed by the God in the past to make men as human and miracles, since men started thinking logically and grow inner consciousness, God became silent and disappear from human habitat. <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”> <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”>There is a choice of believing in God or revelation. If you believe in God, you can no longer believe in those flawed scriptures and miraculous invention, have no logical, scientific and empirical basis. Believing in revelation would make God insane and present him as a paralysed cunning devil. Religious based church cannot guarantee any sin can be mitigated or be salvaged the way it described to pray. No such prediction can be proven or have been proved. This is all parables and common social element of every single society. Only reading very little portion from one scriptures without practical understanding always is a difficult for even a highly scholar in new faith. Such circumstance, foxhole theory actually shrewd to a rat hole window and a very little light can be visible due to the narrowness of space. <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”>Belonging to be high quality, skills and professionalism is an un-necessary skill when you have all opportunities and listeners but scholar himself lacks inner spiritual motivation or loss energy to present the fact to a public in time. This is an uncanny attitude and provocation. I would rather say you may read a short story called “The Bet”. The person read many book of all branches for twenty years in an isolated cell and thought to know everything in the world, but coming out of the prision cell he only realised the world has completely changed in last twenty years and his achievement in an isolated cell add no value to the society not to his practical life. <P style=”MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt”>While we live in society it is not a requirement of such scholar who is not expressive at the very moment . From: [email protected]: [email protected]: John K replied to your comment on Does God Exist?

  316. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, please note that Buddha and Mokichi Okada were dead and gone for good and they can't even help themselves after they crossed over to the invisible world because they are lost, so please tell me how in this physical world can these 2 dead liars help you? The good news is that my beloved Lord Jesus Christ is alive and He is the same yesterday, today and forevermore! So, aren't you glad that you can approach Jesus to help you out of this reincarnation or cycle of hopelessness?

  317. everin says:

    This fairy tale encased with the truths, unlike the fairy tales in bible cannot reconciled with sceintific facts. Truths are 1 : Pres George Bush realized his mistake. 2.CIA gave him wrong info. 3. America did sold a lot of weapons. 4 The U.S. spent billions of USD in conducting the war. 5. Everything that happens in this universe, God ( with his spirits ) has a hand. "Thy will will be done on earth" is the Chritian prayer. The "God" part is to make the story interesting. OK ?
    If George is the CEO with a very big corporation, he would be sacked with no pension n other benefits, for spending hugh sums of money to achieve nothing.
    If u cannot see the Law of Karma in action ( Thy will will be done on earth ), it is yr limitation, weakness n loss. Go n study Buddhism n Johrei n compare. Don't get cornered n blast out Bombastic words when u cannot answer my simple questions. " Thy will will be done on earth". AAA-MEN>

  318. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, let me give you a clue with regard to your interest to get insider information on the nature of my loving Creator God, please stop reading Joseph Smith's false manual now and start to read both the Torah and the Bible carefully. All the true informations you need lies there!

    Mr John K, if Joseph Smith's 'heavenly mother' is real, then why my beloved Lord Jesus never even mentioned a single word on 'her' at all? As far as I've learnt from Jesus, He mentioned so much to me about our Heavenly Father and also, our beloved Holy Spirit but never ever spoke a single word about this this 'heavenly mother'! Is this 'heavenly mother' non-existent or insignificant or what?

  319. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, you are right to say that the human's sinful nature indeed has created many problems, tragedies and sadness in the world as stated clearly in the Bible. That's why God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Jesus Christ is our Saviour and Deliverer. Do you know that your dead Japanese Guru must also bow down to Jesus Christ and confess that He is Lord? 🙂

    Mr Charlee, you got everything wrong here. I don't buy this reincarnation story from Johrei or Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam, so you can keep this nonsense for yourself and carry on believing that in your next life, you'll become a bitch and give birth to many puppies! LOL.

  320. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, why accuse me and all the good Christians here for your problem of not understanding and grasping the ultimate truth and love of my loving Creator God at all? Who told you that you can commit all the sins you wanted for fun and then believe in Jesus Christ and your sins will be forgiven? Is it the devil?

    Mr Charlee, you are wrong to say that there's no such thing as 'free lunch' in this world. The fact is that I had a free lunch today on planet earth. But with regard to the invisible world, you are right to say that there's no such 'free lunch' when you play a fool with the devil!

  321. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, if you read my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina's posts closely, you'll realized that he always reminded us here about cults group eg. Jim Jones; Moonies and David Koresh, etc. The leader or head of all these cults claimed that they are either the 'true prophets' of God or that God has bestowed them a 'divine' message' for the human race. Look at Islam and you will realised the similarities.

    Mr John K, I love the prophets of God and I thank God for giving me the power to discern if they are true or false prophets. Mr Joseph Smith's teachings and belief is errorneous and different from that of Jesus's teachings and you should dare to doubt his words and manuals.

  322. John K says:

    I see a lot of assertions with no basis for substantiation.

  323. John K says:

    Did you have a special conversation with our loving Creator God to get insider information on the nature of his life?

    Would he ask us to call him "Father" if he was not a male? What good is it to be a male if there is no female?

    Are you endorsing Muhammad's degradation of females when Allah was offended when someone suggested that men could have sons but left the daughters for Allah?

    Do you not believe in the female principle? Do you believe that you are inferior because you are female yet God is male and has no female companion?

  324. John K says:

    Biblical criticism is a major field of academic study, and this is using "criticism" in the higher technical meaning of studying something rather than the common meaning of derogating something.

    Your comment about authors is valid if you don't believe they were inspired by God.

    If you put an eye for an eye in the Golden Rule, you have destroyed the Golden Rule. Would you like it if someone took your eye? This is the Islamic interpretation of an eye for an eye anyway. In Jewish jurisprudence, it means the value of an eye as just compensation, not a literal eye.

    It is high time for God's side of the story to be told. What people object to is you appointing yourself as God's spokesman, which is the same objection they leveled against Muhammad. And, yes, they called Muhammad a charlatan too. So the question is not in the label, but in its correct application.

  325. John K says:

    By the way, you should stop using Intense Debate's feature of replying to comments via email because it posts your email address on every comment you submit.

  326. John K says:

    The question is correctly identifying the plan. Dr. Joseph Campell, in Transformations of Myth through time, makes the point that there is only one God up there, but every culture and religion has a different name for him. When they pray to him, they call him by different names, but what varies is not God, but rather the attributes that people assign to him according to the traditions of their religion and culture. So, for example, the God of Islam is very different from the God of Christianity.

    So you come along and speak of karma and a divine plan, yet you have no basis for the factors you believe in. Then you come along and assign factors to Christianity which are not accurate and reflect an inadequate education in Christianity from the time you were a Christian.

  327. everin says:

    Grace, u christians had created an escaped route for criminals. Commit all the sins they wanted to n then believe in Jesus Christ and their sins will be forgiven.
    U christians had created this imagery Jesus Christ so that u can push all yr dirty sins to him n u will feel consoled. No such "free lunch", lady.
    Let see the facts on the ground. Some good christian parents give birth to deformed children ( due to karmic sins,not forgiven by yr Christ. ). Many chrstians suffer the ravage of all kind of diseases ( caused by karmic debt also not forgiven. )
    Some of yr people have to undergo many operations to cut of a spreading cancer, because their sins of the sword committed in previous lives' time had not been erased by yr imagery God. I can go on for more n more of these stories, but time constrains me.
    No,no u got it all wrong there about reincarnation. In yr next reincarnation, u may be born as a sow n do the good work of giving birth to many,many piglets. Carry on the good work, then !

  328. everin says:

    INCREDIBLE TALE OF ERASING KARMIC DEBTS.- Pres. George Bush and the weapon of mass destruction.
    Pres. George Bush exclaimed " Oh my God, I had made a terrible mistake in invading Iraq at such a hugh cost and a big loss of human lives to find no WMD.
    God says " No, no,George, my boy, you didn't make any mistake. It was I who made the CIA to misled you to believe Pres. Saddam Hussain had WMD. You see, your country had made a trillions of dirty money by selling weapons to many bloody dictators. I had to erase some of that, please, to balance up my accounting. As for Saddam Hussain a.k.a the butcher of the Iraqi people, his time is up for killing millions of people in the Iranian War and in conquering Kuwait.
    .

  329. Jonathan Harrell says:

    George Carlin described it in his words. Carlin never had problem with any religion. He lived an awesome life. And he was a philosopher, not just comedian. He speaks brutal truth. People pity him, it isn't gonna affect him, he doesn't give a shit about anything. People will kill each other in the name of god, everybody, especially our children will suffer a lot. But we won't be there. Let the future people die and kill each other in name of god and its just like a roller coaster ride.

    People who can understand it, will live a good life, who can't they can also live in a deluded life. Nobody gives a shit about what people believe. People who do, are the real disease.

    Commandment number 11: Thou shalt keep thy "Religion and God" to thyself.

  330. everin says:

    John, I don’t understand what mumbo-jumbo u are talking about.  All I know is If a hermit crab leaves the shell, it is at risk of being eaten by a fish or an octopus. Similarly, if  yr religion cannot give good guidance n protection. Leave it for another stronger religion -“shell”.  So are u asking me to leave my protective shell (religion ) n be ‘eaten’ by the devil. How high is yr I.Q. hah ! ?   

  331. Agracean says:

    Yes, Mr John K, I do admire my beloved hero, Dr Ali Sina, and especially his administration of the Golden Rule which sums up all his good works here. That's why I've always reminded myself to uphold the Golden Rule in everyday life.

    So, Mr John K, please be informed that I can just keep silent and not care about the 'heavenly mother' issue created by Joseph Smith but then, I remember Dr Ali Sina and the Golden Rule, so I decided to be the good Samaritan to help you see this blind spot.

  332. everin says:

    Let say U love yr son very much but he is very naughty, stealing, lying, taking drugs, fighting with other siblings and yr wife. So u say “son, I love u very much n forgive all yr sins”. Yr ungrateful son will think one fine day “I will kill this old fool n his family to get all his money to buy drugs.” This kind of thing happen in this world—son killing the whole family. &nbsp;God forgives Satan n Satan destroys Him.
    Now we can see the God-sensed West powers are attacking Col. Gaddahfi @ the mad dog for killing his own people. He will have to pay for his karmic debt for the Lokerbie Pan Am bombing soon.
    If God keep on forgiving evil doers. Then He might just as well forgive Satan, n let him destroy the world, His pet project. &nbsp;&nbsp;
    Mayhem, mayhem n doom, according to yr Christian Theory of a loving n forgiving God. Why the hell He had created the burning hell for? &nbsp;Hypothesis or no hypothesis things are working according to the Divine Plan.

  333. John K says:

    "This is the problem with a converted people with their short span of timing"

    I don't know you personally, but I'd guess that judging by my age that the probability is that I am older than you, have seen a lot more than you, have studied more than you, and have higher professional qualifications than you. In geologic age, yes, all of us live in a short span of timing, and that is what Dr. Sina is saying when he talks about having the courage to admit that there are so many things that we don't know.

    But I don't agree with your position that God is unknowable. You are like a fox who has never been out of his foxhole to know that there is a sun that shines in the sky and resists everyone's efforts to tell him to come out of the hole and bask in the sunshine.

    What are you talking about God allowing the death of 300 million to establish Christianity? No such thing has happened. That figure is closer to the deaths caused by the establishment of Islam. You also do not understand Christianity if you can even refer to a kingdom of Christianity. The only thing even close to it was the Holy Roman Empire, and this was a man-made concoction. It certainly was not taught or mandated by Christ in the way the Muhammad ordered the conquest of the world to establish Islam as the only world's religion.

    Your statement about Hitler also shows that you have not studied anything about Hitler's emnity towards Christianity. Hitler was a fan and ally of Islam, and in common with them, after he finished with the Jews, he planned to kill the Christians next. He also developed a pagan state religion that he was planning to institute.

    Debates are not productive when you do not come from a fact-based paradigm. It's better if you take the position of a listener and learner until you improve your qualifications.

  334. John K says:

    Grace, have you been hanging around Islam information sites too long? You have developed a Muslim habit of quoting a portion of a chapter while omitting the rest of the passage which contains evidence contrary to the point that you are trying to make, because our dear Lord was not only telling us to beware of false prophets in this passage, but was in fact telling us at the same time how to detect a true one. So why would he tell us how to tell a true prophet if he did not plan to send any more?

    Matthew 7
    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

    18 good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Compare the fruits of Islam with the fruits of Mormonism to discern the difference between a true prophet and a false prophet.

    Don't you feel a little bit hypocritical to believe in a book that talks about God speaking to prophets, and yet you don't believe there are any more prophets?

  335. John K says:

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please do not state your opinions as facts. You have no evidence to back up your statement concerning a so-called false prophet.

    Learn from the example of Ali Sina who has taught the limitations of the human ability to know, and who in spite of extensive study to develop his informed opinion of atheism, still holds and open mind that science may yet prove the existence of God.

    If in the end you discover that I was right and you were wrong, you will regret your formation of a hasty opinion.

    John 7:24
    Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    So when the day comes that you feel you have enough information to make a righteous judgement, you had better be sure your case is pretty watertight.

    After all, I might call you a false Christian because you rejected the Genesis verses I gave you that the Gods created male and female after THEIR image.

  336. Agracean says:

    Mr leo420, you are the same as before after this long period of 'disappearance'. When will your cloudy and confused mind become as clear as water?

  337. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, just a kind reminder from my beloved Lord Jesus Christ to you with regard to this dead false prophet, Joseph Smith:

    "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." ~ Jesus Christ

  338. Agracean says:

    Yes, Mr John K, you are right to say that nature testifies that every human being in this world must have a father and mother but please always bear this in mind that my loving Creator God is not of this world, so this law of the nature is not applicable in Heaven.

  339. Agracean says:

    So, Mr John K, it's true that you agreed with this false prophet, Joseph Smith's teachings that there is a hevenly mother! How can you be so dumb and gullible and be deceived by this false prophet?

    Please read the following verse to understand that the word 'us' and 'our image' are referring to God and the Holy Spirit and not 'heavenly mother'!

    Gen 1:2
    2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    Please show me where in the Bible did Jesus ever mention about this 'heavenly mother' as per Joseph Smith's stupid claim?

    that I totally agree with you that every human being must have a mother and a father.

  340. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, your above comment proves that this new age religion, Johrei offers no final solution to all human beings' sin problem at all, so it's time for you to wake up and renounce this hopeless religion, Johrei now and turn to Jesus Christ for the ultimate truth!

    By the way, Mr Charlee, please be informed that according to the law of karma, if you are a man in this lifetime and if you do any bad deeds, you'll be reincarnated to be a woman in your next life. So, Mr Charlee, if you still wish to continue to believe in Johrei and this stupid cycle of hopelessness, you'll be 'glad' to know that your present sex organs will be the same as mine in your next life. LOL.

  341. John K says:

    I would say that you are confused, not me.

    I was raised a scientific atheist and was over half way to finishing my degree when I converted.

    So you see me as trapped in a Christian bubble and unable to see anything outside of it when the reality that I already had everything "outside" when I came "in".

    So here is one simple example where your vision of reality is erroneous because you have insufficient facts to render a sound judgement.

    The same applies to what you said about Christ's execution. You obviously have not got even the rudiments of familiarity with the story and Jewish and Roman jurisprudence to enable you to make an informed opinion on the matter. Nevertheless, you continue to state your opinions as facts when you do not even have enough information or discerning judgement to form an educated opinion.

  342. John K says:

    There is nothing wrong with being sensitive, but you cannot assume Nature or the Divine is vengeful. Your hypothesis is not testable.

  343. everin says:

    THE LAW OF KARMA = AN EYE FOR AN EYE = YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW
    This my personal observasion about the Divine plan. Take the recent Japanese earthquake cum tsunami cum nuclear radiation leak for example. Earthquakes are natural phenomena in Japan. But why such a hugh tsunami that cause the nuclear reactors to leak radioactive into the food chain n water. This karmic debt has to go back to WW2 where Japanese imperial sodiers tortuerd, raped and killed over 100 thousands of people in its wars of aggression and expansion. The Japanese planes bombed cities and even used "diseased-flea" bombs on Chinese cities.The Japanese govt. never want to apologize nor pay compensation to the thousands of the "comfort" women who were raped by their soldiers. This has acculmilated reverse interest on the karmic debt in God's calculation. Thus this mega tsunami attack on the descendants of those soldiers. Japanese people should bow to God and say " Thank you for this lesson" in the spirit of the Mahikari and Johrei teachings. Please don't blame me for being insensitive beacuase I am just an observer. But who are to be sensitive to the victims killed by the Japanese in WW2 ?

  344. leo420 says:

    As a christian you cannot go out of the circle. When you say Jesus laid down I can see your realisation and version of scriptures you follow. Young Jesus was a political activist andtry touproar the mob against the Roman rule in Jeruslem. His whipping the pharses, and out turnings the official tables areall other vilent activities are in the bible. He was sentence was approved by the Roman authority and was a fair punishment according to Jews law. Most christian and other religious scholarsbelieve I am misguiding their young generation and reply the same way you do,by telling the truth, but I have all the historical evidence, What you believe you think is fact irrespective of truth. Some amount of research and reading outside what you believe would get rid of confusion. The version of Resurrection in christianity was imported from Hindu philosophyduringtheir settlement in Rome. Biblicalliteratures are motivtion and inspirationfor enslave Jews in Persia and Egypt tobuild their own home land by the name of God. Praising God was the common conception in ancient culture and literatures. Hindu philosophy, cultures and believe develpoed in the same way. Absolutely no relation with the creator God. If you want Iam more than happy to debate with you on some specific issues about Christianityand will show you the truth and evidence from scriptures. Nevertheless I am not an atheist and have no problem with religion . This is more about how people are trading off God to living with bread and butter.I only givefair judement. Let me know and send me an email. Thank you again From: [email protected]: [email protected]: John K replied to your comment on Does God Exist?

  345. John K says:

    You are entitled to your opinions. I do not accept them as fact.

  346. John K says:

    Hi Grace. Yes, look at this:

    Genesis 1
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness….

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Note the use of the plural – our image – our likeness – male and female.

    The Bible tells us we are the children of God. All nature testifies that every child must have a mother and a father.

  347. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr John K, is it true that mormons believe there's a heavenly mother?

  348. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr leo420 again, I can't believe it's you, leo the lion again! I thought that you've vapourized after our last exchanges in FFI!

  349. leo420 says:

    It does not matter. I read scriptures science and reality. I am not a theologist. I have no obligations to believe abstract and blind support to religious scriptures. Man can not transform into monkey and pigs. I grew up in religious cultures and practice faith, debate until I finally write againstrevelations. Last thing I would say. As a christian would you believe that Prophet Muhammad did split the moon into two parts with his indes finger. two parts were visible and Ohud mountain were in between.These were recorded with authentic eye witness. Definitely you would not. So as other than christians would never believe that a dead Man Jesus resurrected three days afterwards. Now you think the other way of the same curve. What you can see about the truth. God does not appear on a burning bush anyway. So what what people believe they think is truth. But reality does not change with believe. Your those scriotures are ancient poetic literatures. Prose and essay style writings are more recent versions. Theologist have problem thinking with broad views. Did you saw the life of John Nash, winner of Noble prize in 1994. a brilliant but mentally sick person solved many complicated mathematical puzzles, His market and economic theories are famous. regardsOmar Faruque From: [email protected]: [email protected]: John K replied to your comment on Does God Exist?

  350. John K says:

    Don't worry. I don't consider you a credible source of information on reality.

  351. leo420 says:

    then you really have to be unbiased to read all religious scripriptues to understand the part. How and where the religious scriptures came from. In no way you can say one is right and others are wrong. its hypocracy.In that context scriptures are illogical, irrevalent revelations of God. Pl read my other articles, specially this <a href="http://omarfaruque.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/religion-philosophy-and-afterlife-myth-%e2%80%93/http://omarfaruque.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/relig… /> You can also read my debate with religious scholars to understand the reality. Thanks and regards Omar Faruque From: [email protected]: [email protected]: John K replied to your comment on Does God Exist?

  352. John K says:

    That is a value judgement on your part. You have no evidence of your claim, and you are certainly in no position to judge the hypocrisy or non-hypocrisy of people who are long dead and gone.

  353. leo420 says:

    sorry I post the wrong link. Here is the correct link. http://omarfaruque.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/livin

    two article related to described the action of God. So please also read the article –
    God VS Revelation – Clash of Virtues and Evil

    Thanks

  354. John K says:

    The link you provided is not related to the topic of the thread or the purpose of the article or site.

  355. John K says:

    A comment like this assumes that God caused the tsunami, cyclone, or natural calamity, which is not a valid assumption.

    Genesis 1:28
    And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    So the concept here is that God sent us here to learn how to master our physical environment, and to do good to others by relieving suffering by doing such things as developing vaccines, or participating in tsunami relief operations.

  356. leo420 says:

    If Lord does pleases with things then would not be any tsunami, cyclone. naural clamity. anyway vote for me pl http://www.itsourmovie.com/node/1314

  357. leo420 says:

    It does not matter how you are going to disprove things. reality does not change. go on my site and support me now. http://www.itsourmovie.com/node/1314 later i will come back to link you my big reearch article about Jesus Christ.

    Thanks you

  358. John K says:

    Yes dear Grace. Here is the primary teaching of Joseph Smith:

    “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. But in connection with these, we believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost, the power of faith, the enjoyment of the spiritual gifts according to the will of God, the restoration of the house of Israel, and the final triumph of truth.”
    http://lds.org/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-

    A little broader overview is here:

    The Articles of Faith

    of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

    2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

    3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

    4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

    6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

    7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

    8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

    9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

    10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

    11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

    12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

    13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

    Joseph Smith.

    For more depth, see the manual from which the first quote was extracted, or look here:
    http://josephsmith.net

    for general info on the church beyond Joseph Smith, look at:
    http://mormon.org/

    For additional readings, look at the Gospel Library in the main menu tab at:
    http://lds.org/

    For LDS teachings about Jesus Christ, see:
    http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/

  359. Agracean says:

    Mr John K, so you are a mormon and is it true that you believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet and follow all his teachings?

  360. John K says:

    Twisting the Bible? Have you read it? Your comment is obviously inappropriate for anyone who has read the Bible or even has a passing familiarity with it.

  361. John K says:

    A smart brain with a good sense of judgement is able to discern what things are worthy of the time that it takes to investigate. You haven't shown me anything that makes this charlatan worthy of investigation.

    I certainly am not interested in studying superstition. While it might be fun for academic interest, it has nothing to enrich or add value to my life.

  362. John K says:

    I don't need to talk to them. I am a scientist. I know what science is, and I know what they are doing is not science.

    Your limitation and weakness is that you have not had the opportunity to study real science, so you accept charlatans as the real thing.

    I also have a degree in Comparative Literature. If you think the Bible says the world was made in 7 days, it shows you haven't had a good literature class either as you obviously don't know how to read real literature that is more than just informational.

  363. everin says:

    John,  “ an eye for an eye is no longer in effect “ by whose authority?  Keep turning n twisting the bible according to yr wimp n fancy ?  How could I remain a Christian with all these “manipulation”?.  In fact, I had left it long time ago. Anyway, Carry on with yr good work of charity. God is pleased.         Aaa-men.

  364. everin says:

    John,  Superstition or not, it is up to yr smart brain to investigate.

  365. everin says:

    Hey, John K, Have u really spoken to the paranormal investigators and check their high tech equipments ?  What are so fraudulent about detecting sounds n movements, measuring temperatures n magnetic fields, taking pictures n communicating with the spirits. Tell me, man. Their team also consists of a clairvoyant or a spiritualist who can “see” or sense things that ordinary people cannot.  The spirit can “see” n disturb u but u cannot see it. That only shows yr limitation n weakness. Go n join a team of investigators to find the truth.  Don’t just remain an armchair critic only. If u cannot see oxygen, that does not mean it is not present. So yr knowledge of spirit is as out-dated as yr scriptures, which also said the world was made in 7 days n we all came from one parent, Adam n Eve.

  366. John K says:

    Charlee, it isn't about the age of the cart, but the content. I see nothing but superstition in Johrei and the other things you have been saying about it here.

  367. John K says:

    Charlee, it would appear you haven't read the Bible enough to see the part about the Law of Moses being fulfilled in Christ. An eye for an eye is no longer in effect.

    If you don't accept the Bible, that's fine, but don't call yourself a Christian.

  368. John K says:

    I'm sorry. I have a degree in science, so I cannot accept spiritualists and paranormal investigators. Any "high tech" equipment they have is bound to be fraudulent and not developed in accordance with any accepted scientific method.

    Science and religion are separate. Everything I care to know about spirits is contained in the scriptures. I won't accept man's contributions because spirits are outside the realm of science.

  369. John K says:

    You should edit your email address out of the above comment.

  370. everin says:

    Agracean,  Don’t parrot after me about getting out of the box. My advice to u is better to drive the Japanese car rather than the old Jewish cart to go to heaven. Yr progress will be dead-slow, lady.  I think u are advertising yrself to get a husband. Which country are u from?   Sri Lanka or India ?

  371. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, you can choose to continue to partnership with George Carlyn and mock God or lie till the day you expire but don't you think that it's really silly of you to do that? Why not think outside the Johrei box and become a better person in life?

    The fact is that 2000 yrs ago, many people testified about Jesus but none, not even Jesus spoke about your new age founder and religion, Johrei. However, Jesus did warn His followers that many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
    For false messiahs and false prophets who will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

  372. everin says:

    Agracean and John K.,  It is better for u 2 to use the Japanese car ( Johrei ) than the old n outdated, Jewish cart ( Christianity ). U can still arrive at yr destination ( heaven ? ) but in slower n more painful manner. ( Johrei’s light can ease yr pains n sicknesses, u know ?. ).  George Carlyn had asked yr God @ Jesus to strike him dead. See nothing happened. I have enough of yr Christian propaganda.  Thanks but NO THANKS.

  373. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, your above comment shows that you are outdated. Kindly read the following passage from the gospel of Luke, to update yourself of God's loving kindness, unfailing love, mercy and grace towards those human beings who considered themselves to be the worst sinners on planet earth:

    Luke 23:32-43
    Two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed. When they came to the place called the Skull, they crucified him there, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

  374. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, do you know that Jesus has all the authority and power to command all the angels in Heaven to destroy all his tormentors? But He knew that He has to accomplish this great mission on planet earth and that is to be the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world!

    He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; He was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He did not open his mouth.

    Mr Charlee, do you have any commonsense at all? Or is it true that Johrei has turned you into a brainless idiot ? How can you be so gullible and simply believe any liars eg. Muhammad bin Abdullah, Roman soldiers, etc who spread all kinds of stupid lies about Jesus Christ, without determining their evil motives at all?

  375. everin says:

    Please see my reply to Grace,  The Holy Spirit, NOT Jesus, will surely help those good Christians who have done lots of good deeds n has little karmic debt, in accordance with His Divine Plan.  The Quran said Jesus was a mere prophet, n NOT the son of God.  Since He can operate the Divine Plan in good order, The Holy Spirit of all the minor spirits had no need for a son. All the religions, except the Christian Faith, never say God had a son. E.g. To punish a woman who has aborted a child, He has no need to dirty His hands, the little child spirit will do the job for Him, according to his plan. “An eye for an eye” as written in the bible. And this is also part of the Divine Plan.

  376. everin says:

    Grace, Oh NO ! Jesus could not even save himself from the cross. Some said his brother took his place n he escaped to India n Japan to study Buddhism. The Roman soldiers could easily be bribed in those good old days. A photo of his grave was found in the older version of the Mahikari text, “Thank God For The answer At Last”.  The Quran also said Jesus was a mere prophet n not the son of God. When u pray in the church with a good heart n a lot of good deeds done, the Holy Spirit, not Jesus, may help u, depending on how much karmic debt u have cleared.                 Aaa-men.  

  377. John K says:

    "The bible were written by fallible, ordinary men with no scientific knowledge at all."

    Charlee, please see my other post in this article about separation of science and religion. I don't want to repeat it here.

    The message of the Bible is not about science. The message of the Bible is that the Son of God came and took on a mortal body, taught us how to be better people, took upon him the pain of our sins and other sufferings, laid down his life and was resurrected from the dead.

    This is not given as a matter of science. This is testimony of those who walked with him. Either you believe it or you don't. But when you blend in other influences, you are not properly a Christian anymore. Even the Muslims believe he was a great teacher.

  378. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, please be informed that Agracean is my pseudonym and my name is Grace. The fact is that Johrei has turned you into a braindead zombie and your above comment shows that you need a rewiring of your brain system to think properly, especially when you mentioned about the aborted child spirit and that dead uncivilised joker, Geroge Carlyn.

    I agree with you that we are responsible and accountable to God for all the sins we've commited on planet earth. Since you're too prideful to receive help from Jesus Christ by rejecting God's great salvation plan for you, I hereby wish you all the best in settling the penalty for all your sins with God without Jesus Christ's help. 🙂

  379. everin says:

    John K, Agracean n Grace , Think outside the box of biblical knowledge. The bible were written by fallible, ordinary men with no scientific knowledge at all.  Get out n U will find the “light” is still waiting for u to investigate with yr smart brains. Rhetoric n flowery words will only make u  go round n round the bible. Beating around the bushes n getting nowhere as the English had said. The Holy Spirit, God, had made man in His image in the spiritual form n not in the physical sense. Everybody has a soul n it came from God , The Holy Spirit of all minor spirits (souls ). Everyone has to carry his own “cross” as in the Law of Karma”.  Not just simply believe in Jesus n u will be saved from yr sins. That is pure propaganda. The aborted child spirit will attack the mother despite the fact that she is a staunch Christian. No one can intervene in the Divine Plan, except with God’s light that can lighten the punishment. George Carlyn has made a point here.                      Aaa-men.

  380. John K says:

    Everin, or I guess I should be calling you Charlee, about what you wrote:

    "THANK U for saying that Johrei is a NEW-AGE RELIGION. So it should have all the advanced teachings n technique to help mankind."

    That depends on whether you look at religion as evolutionary improvement, or divine dispensation and decline. If you accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the prophets and apostles as his divine messengers, then the truth is what is closer to the source.

  381. John K says:

    Hey Everin,

    Looks like you are trying to use to this function in Intense Debate:

    "Reply to this email to post a response to this comment.
    Please leave the original message intact. Just type your reply, hit send and you're all set."

    But it is not working. Better visit the thread to reply.

  382. John K says:

    Hey Everin,

    Looks like you are trying to use to this function in Intense Debate:

    "Reply to this email to post a response to this comment.
    Please leave the original message intact. Just type your reply, hit send and you're all set."

    But it is not working. Better visit the thread to reply.

  383. John K says:

    Hi Dear Grace. Yes, I did join. That was 35 years ago.

  384. John K says:

    I can appreciate what you are saying. Coming from a science background myself, as I compare what the scriptures say about light and what we know about light from science, I am convinced that light is a significant medium for God's operation in the universe.

  385. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr John K, so you are a mormon? Is it true that you join the LDS Church/Mormon Church?

  386. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, since you are so eager to be a farmer or fisherman to be taught by Jesus, the following passage from the Bible is meant for your encouragement:

    I Corinthians 1:27-29
    But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.

  387. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, why are you so jealous of all the farmers and fishermen who were taught by Jesus? Do you know that there's no need for you to become a farmer or fisherman anymore, in order to be taught by Jesus? Well, you just need to humble yourself before Lord Jesus and follow all His teachings!

  388. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, please let me know what factual errors in the Bible are you referring to? Mr dumbo Charlee, Johrei is just another new age religion which promised its followers all kinds of false peace, just to ease their guilty conscience temporarily on planet earth. Kindly be informed that even though Johrei, being a new age religion has all the advanced teachings and technique to help mankind as per your claim, this doesn't mean that it is the Way, the Truth and the Life! And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

  389. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, I'll tell you who wrote the Bible:

    OLD Testament
    Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, & Job by Moses; Joshua by Joshua; Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel by Samuel/Nathan/Gad; 1 & 2 Kings by Jeremiah; 1 & 2 Chronicles by Ezra/ Nehemiah; Esther by Mordecai
    Psalms – primarily David with several others; Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, & Song of Solomon by Solomon; Isaiah by Isaiah; Jeremiah & Lamentations by Jeremiah
    Ezekiel by Ezekiel; Daniel by Daniel; Hosea by Hosea; Joel by Joel; Amos by Amos
    Obadiah by Obadiah; Jonah by Jonah; Micah by Micah; Nahum by Nahum; Habakkuk by Habakkuk; Zephaniah by Zephaniah; Haggai by Haggai; Zechariah by Zechariah; Malachi by Malachi

    NEW TESTAMENT
    Matthew by Matthew; Mark by John Mark; Luke & Acts by Luke; John & Revelation by John; Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon by Paul; Hebrews by an unknown author, probably Paul; James by James; 1& 2 Peter by Peter; 1, 2, & 3 John by John
    Jude by Jude

  390. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, what do you mean that my 'emails' are full of agression when I don't even have your email address? No wonder you are so afraid of the fire of truth which will burn and expose all your stupid lies here!

  391. everin says:

    Because yr emails are full of aggression, I am afraid u may want to burn me at the stake with the fire of yr rubbish. Now tell me who wrote the Bible n why it contains so many factual errors. THANK U for saying that Johrei is a NEW-AGE RELIGION.  So it should have all the advanced teachings n technique to help mankind. We are not the farmers n fishermen to be taught by Jesus any more.   Ahamdulilah !

  392. everin says:

    Nobody really know what kind of golden light God is generating . It is noted in the Bible (John : 1.9 ) and when Moses was given the 10 commandments by a light source. Now Johrei n Mahikari  are applying this so called God’s light to promote good health. Its quality is to purify the cells of man, animal, plant, food, etc,etc. For more details, contact the Johrei people, who are more than willing to help.  OK ?

  393. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, please come to your senses and stop making wild accusations against a kind, beautiful and intelligent Christian lady like me! Where in this dying world did I burn you at the stake? You may wish to know that I don't like to burn people but I like to burn rubbish with the fire of truth.

    What makes you think that I have not read or study other kinds of religious books in the world? Do I have to let you know how many religious books I have read in my entire life? In fact, the truth is that you are a toad and not a frog, living in the well of pride and ignorance and all you could see from the well is that stupid new age religion created by a dead Japanese Guru and not the sky of truth! Don't you think that you are really a stupid toad?t

    By the way, you can boast of your religious knowledge here and how many religious books you have read but the point is, your religious knowledge is errorneous and the fact is that you do not understand what you are reading at all as what I can see from our debate. So, it's really sad to know that there are many braindead zombies out there who are like you.

  394. everin says:

    Don’t beat around the bushes, John K.

  395. Ali Sina says:

    Sometimes comments goes to spam box by mistake. Please allow some time to approve, We approve almost all comment if they don't contain vulgarity.

  396. John K says:

    So much imputing things which are not there.

  397. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, you are an ignorant man. Please go and study the Bible and understand why there are so many natural disasters, plagues, etc, happening and why our planet earth is dying.

    As for the 'Allah' issue associated with those religious Catholics in Malaysia and Indonesia, I felt really sorry for their foolishness and ignorance of printing this word in their Bible or magazines which represents Islam's dead moon god and thus, incurring the wrath of those braindead zombies.

  398. Agracean says:

    Again, Ms Nadia, you have to read and study the Bible if you are interested to know more about our loving Creator God. Laziness will keep you ignorant of the truth till the day you say bye-bye to all human beings on planet earth!

    By the way, kindly be informed that my loving Creator God did not create evil in the first place because the Bible says so. Let me ask you this super simple question in order to help you understand better. You are a scientist and you've created a handsome cyborg which looks like your idol, Brad Pitt and you love him very much. Will you install a programme in your cyborg that it will tell lies, curse and even kill you when it's not happy with your commands? Does it make sense to you that our loving creator God created us and all His creations to be evil?

  399. Agracean says:

    So, Ms Nadia, I hope that by now you'll understand Jesus has to be crucified because He loves you and me very much.

  400. Agracean says:

    By the way, today is 16/03 and I dedicate John 3:16 to you. Please read the following passage from the gospel of John to get a much clearer picture of my above explanation:
    John 3:16-21
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

  401. Agracean says:

    Hello Ms Nadia, it's time for you to grab hold of a Bible and start reading the New Testament about Jesus's unconditional great love to save a wretch like you and me when He purposed in His heart and mind to go through all the scorns, torments, pain and in the end, crucified on that old rugged cross 2000 yrs ago, so as to die on our behalf and paid the penalty of our sins and rose again on the third day, for our justification. Aren't you glad that my loving Creator God is such a wonderful Lord and Saviour?

  402. John K says:

    Good and evil are not created. They are co-existent and co-eternal. The Good News of the Gospel is that we are not doomed, but redeemed. Good comes through education and effort, not through force and imposition. This is addressed in Thomas Jefferson's Virginia Statute for Religious Liberty, adopted by the Virginia General Assembly in 1786:

    Whereas, Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all
    attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens,
    or by civil incapacitations tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy
    and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the
    Holy Author of our Religion, who being Lord, both of body
    and mind yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either,
    as was in His Almighty power to do.

  403. John K says:

    Good and evil are not created, but co-existent and co-eternal. God's mission is to work for the good and resist evil.

    Jesus was not killed. He laid down his life for us.

  404. John K says:

    Your thinking is too literal. Think Hollywood movies. Good guys versus bad guys. Black hats versus white hats. The light of reason versus the darkness of barbarism.

  405. John K says:

    That's a choice, not a fact.

  406. Nadia says:

    All those of you who believe that your God created all, everything etc.. Why did he create evil? Why would a God create something that he knew would doom the mankind that he apparently loved so much? Obviously your God can see the future and knew the consequences of his actions, so why do it? and why not intervene when injustices are taking place?

  407. Nadia says:

    Can I ask you, how can Jesus be God if he was so called crucified? and if you say that your God is the creator? why did he create evil in the first place? Please explain.

  408. Arya Anand says:

    Hi, you have blind belief in Jesus and the myths associated with him like God incarnate, infallible, died for the sins of the humans,etc,etc. If Jesus really existed and lived as depicted in the New Testament, then he was really a great man like Buddha, Socrates, Zoroaster, Aristotle,et al. But he was never perfect and infallible just like other humans.

  409. Arya Anand says:

    Light is an energy like sound, motion, gravity,etc. Do you believe all eight energies discovered so far in the universe are Gods?

  410. John K says:

    If you think you are brave to try new ideas, try this:
    http://mormon.org/

  411. everin says:

    John k, Grace, Agracean, n others.
    Oh! U people of the Books, still burying yr heads into the sands of dogmatic and old teachings written there, so much so that u have no creative thinkings and the will to investigate the truths that contravene the teachings. Do we need many Copernicus to awaken u up.?

  412. John K says:

    "Could possibly one day science make God indispensable? It could happen. We could find out that God exists after all and everything exists because of this great consciousness. The only people who can answer that are the scientists. Speculation leads us nowhere. Let us wait until then."

    This particular piece of reasoning is counter-productive. Either God exists or God does not exist regardless of the current state of the art of science.

    If someday science proves God exists, then all the doubters have distanced themselves from him for nothing. If science proves that God does not exist, then all the faithful have believed in vain all this time.

    But Einstein was correct when he said that science is not able to prove or disprove the existence of God. Therefore waiting for a ruling from science before making a personal decision is effectively a non-decision.

    We often hear the argument for separation of church and state. I would argue for the separation of science and religion. Yes, science is useful for disproving false religion as you have argued in the case of Islam, but science and true religion, which would be defined as the knowledge of a true God, if there is one, are separate fields of knowledge with different mechanisms of finding truth. The methods of discovering spiritual truths are spiritual just as the methods of discovering physical truths are physical.

    But let's not silence God, if there is one. He has a right to speak for himself. I have argued elsewhere on this site that he has, and that he has provided spiritual evidence thereof, so I will not rehash it here. I have also cited Spencer W. Kimball's analogy that science spends millions listening for voices from outer space when the human spirit is the most sensitive instrument for detecting communications from heaven and that man is capable of communing with God.

  413. John K says:

    Yes, Everin, Obama is the problem. His true nature is still not fully known. He came to power on a platform of hope and change having been an obscure senator with no accomplishments, no professional qualifications or experience to be president, and of unknown values and positions. Information is just starting to come out. For example, Stanley Kurtz reveals that Obama is a stealth socialist in his book, Radical-in-Chief: Barack Obama and the Untold Story of American Socialism:
    http://frontpagemag.com/2011/02/02/obamas-secret/
    http://frontpagemag.com/2011/02/03/who-schooled-o
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okeo4lX_tZw

    I thought when communism fell that it lost its credibility and disappeared, but Kurtz explains its history and says that it didn't disappear, but rather it went underground in the Community Organizing movement, to which Obama was quite close.

    His position on Islam is unclear, but what is clear is that he was raised as a Muslim in Indonesia and comes from a Muslim family background. His Indonesian school records also list him as a Muslim. Attendance at public school in Indonesia was not permitted for non-Muslims. There's also an old photo of Obama here:
    http://freedombulwark.net/community/337-john/phot

    Israeli intelligence picked up chatter among Islamists that said they were going to have a Muslim in the White House. You can see a trailer with Avi Lipkin here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jhx_2TqffE

    Dinesh D'Souza has written a new book, The Roots of Obama’s Rage, which explains his Kenyan father's hatred of America and colonialism.

    He has also made statements like he does not believe in American exceptionalism, and that when things go against the Muslims, he will be on their side.

    America is in financial trouble, but the wars are not the cause. America took the "peace dividend" and downsized the military after the Cold War. Defense spending during the Afghan and Iraq wars has not exceeded normal peacetime levels in the 3 to 4% of GDP range, with the War on Terrorism being included in that total at 1% of GDP. This is a relatively insignificant cost compared to the major effort launched in WWII which consumed 33% of US GDP:
    http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc/articles/

    In any case, we are not there just for a strategic airbase. We are there to fight against the jihad and protect their victims. It is not an easy task because of the historical and cultural inertia enjoyed by Islam in these areas. We mourn the loss of our dead and fret over the money spent, but the important thing is doing what is right, not the cost.

  414. John K says:

    You would be better to inform yourself of Christian teachings on spirits from the Bible than ghostbusters.

  415. John K says:

    Everin, about what you wrote:

    "According to the teachings I received, God assigns a little spirit to every foetus., If u destroy its chance of being born. It bears a grudge against u n attaches to u, waiting for an opportunity to attack u in many forms"

    Bearing grudges is against the Christian teachings of forgiveness, loving your enemy, and doing good to those who harm you.

    And, "In haunted house cases, some Christians try to evoke Jesus's help without success"

    Fear of haunted houses is a Satanic deception which seeks to replace faith with fear. Faith and fear cannot exist together, for one replaces the other.

    And, "U may have to find a spiritualist to help u to appease it. I doubt if Jesus can help"

    If you think a human can help you more than Christ, you are really not a Christian.

  416. Agracean says:

    And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep. And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them. Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.

    When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country. Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.

  417. Agracean says:

    Luke 8:27-36
    And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)

  418. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, please read the the passage below and understand that even the devils know the highest authority and confessed the truth about Jesus's true identity and they have to obey all His commands! Don't you think that all my dear Rationalist, Atheist, Pantheist, Theist and whatever yeast friends here including you, are really dumb?

  419. everin says:

    Ha, ha, Grace n Agracean, ______I read this story in the paper about a lady who has had 5 abortions. Now every night when she sleeps she can hear babies crying that disturd her sleep. She is a Muslim __The 2nd story concerned a lady whom i know . She had 4 abortions n was attacked by cancer of the womb at the age of 45. Thanks to modern surgery her life was saved. She was a staunch Catholic, but now a Jehova Winesses.__According to the teachings I received, God assigns a little spirit to every foetus., If u destroy its chance of being born. It bears a grudge against u n attaches to u, waiting for an opportunity to attack u in many forms, be it cancer, or crying babies that only u can hear, or other troubles. But u cannot see it. U may have to find a spiritualist to help u to appease it. I doubt if Jesus can help. Because __In haunted house cases, some Christians try to evoke Jesus's help without success.__ Incredible tales? U have to experience it to realize its truth.__ ____

  420. Continuum says:

    Arya,

    You are right….these are just words…Devatas are NOT immortal, they are too in Samsara…birth, death etc..

  421. John K says:

    I know the Lord is pleased with your righteous desires to be more like Him.

    Gen 22:18

  422. Arya Anand says:

    Continuum,

    If Rig Veda speaks of One God and also thousands and even millions of Devatas as demi gods being subject to this One Supreme God, then Rig Veda does NOT teach Monotheism. If there is only one God then there is no other god whether demi god or other form.

    Moreover, the Sanskrit word "Devata" is taken by many scholars to mean gods but actually it means shining beings and Devata is similar to angel (Malak) of semitic religions and Zoroastrianism. So, Devatas means angels not gods or demi gods.

  423. Continuum says:

    Arya,

    Vedas do mention different gods or devatas, but the same Vedas also mention these devatas being completely subject to and being created by ONE GOD in Rig Veda in several places. This is monotheistic concept.

    It is NOT Dayananda who said such a thing, it is infact Rig Veda itself which says all the names of Devatas actually belong to the ONE GOD as such names are indeed the attributes of ONE GOD. Check ekamsat vipra bahuda vadanti and Visvakarma SUkta of Rig Veda which clearly says the ONE GOD is the real bearer of names of all other gods.

    Nowhere Vedas speak of oneness of Devatas. Infact Vedas clearly talk about different Devatas being subject other Devatas and also to ONE GOD.

  424. everin says:

    Ha, Ha John’The late Reagan could bomb Gaddafi, Clinton had sent a number of tomahak  missiles into Afghanistan n George Bush conquered Iraq. What serious problem when more than half of the population of Libya welcome the US help? Corrupt politicians is the problem ? Or Obama is joker.? All u need is a few surgical strikes. No land troops. What made u say Obama is a fan of Islam.? I think all American troops should get the hell out of Iraq n Afghanistan. Americans may win the war but at very high cost. It may make the US govt. bankrupt in the end. No point in throwing good money down the drains n spilling American blood. Just for a strategic air base ? So it is the tax payers to foot the bills. The US already has huge foreign debts n the budget is a 13 trillions in deficit.  Correct me if I am wrong.   

  425. everin says:

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    Hi, Val and John K
    From haunted house to God.
    U cannot generalise that the spirits in haunted houses are all fallen angels, a.k.a satan. This is tantamount to saying that any person who got a fever must be an Aids patient.
    Haunted houses each has its own individual history. These spirits are of human origin. They met their death in a voilent or foul ways.They cannot go away to the spirit world but trapped in the place where they had died because of grudge or attachment. Some or them can be guided to go to the spirit realm by human spiritualists. Go find this out from the spiritualists or paranormal investigaters with all the high-tec equiments.
    A man is consisted of body, mind n spirit. When a person is in a coma, his body is still functioning but his spirit has left. If it comes back, he will wake up, Otherwise, he is as good as dead.
    Want to know all about spirits and God, get the book, "Foundation of Paradise".from any Johrei centre. OK?

  426. everin says:

    Val, yr knowledge of haunted houses is too generalised n blame everything on Satan. Just like saying that when a person got fever, u said he must be suffering from AIDS. All haunted houses have own their indilvidual history. Nomarly, a person or persons was murdered in the house n their spirits could not leave the place because they haboured some grudge, or attachment. They were traped in Purgatory Consult a ghost buster n he will tell u. Go see the American TV shows " A haunting " n you will know better.
    A man is consisted of body, mind n spirit. when a man falls into a coma, his spirit has left his body which is still functioning.. U can kill a man but not his spirit.
    Want to know all about spirits?, Buy the book "
    Foundation of Paradise" from Johrei centre.

  427. John K says:

    Deism is rather outdated. I don't think they are that retro at NASA.

  428. BustedDivinity. says:

    @Jon k
    The Nasa top brass that favors an intelligent creator was at best arguing for a deistic position, Deists believe in a creator as the first cause who set the wheels in motion and retired back to never interfere with it’s creation, this is not the Anthropomorphic god of the flat earth or the one who doesnt know the correct value of pi, Einstein thinks that those who believe in earthly created gods (like the gods of islam and christianity) are childish, a hypothetical deistic god who created the natural laws will not be so confused and ill-informed as the god of the holy books, even Mr. Hawking sometimes uses the term ‘god’ to refer to a probable first cause, that does not mean your version of god is the right one, people are Atheists not because they rule out the possibility of a god, but because they oppose the theistic versions of god, hence the term A-theist.

  429. Agracean says:

    Mr BustedDivinity, kindly let a kind, beautiful and intelligent Christian lady like me whose heart is full of love, to help you and all my dear Atheist(Dr Ali Sina), Pantheist(Mr Jonathan Harrel), Theist and whatever yeast friends here to come to terms with the absolute truth that God really does exist. You may wish to discuss with my dear rationalist hero, Dr Ali Sina my this utmost important but super simple question: "Does Spirit Exist?" and do let me have the correct answer. Then, I'll prove to you that God exist! 🙂

  430. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr Arya Anand, what you mean is that a thousand years from the day you depart from planet earth, all the free thinkers born in the year 3011 speculate that you are just a myth or fairy tale. Don't you think that I should have the courtesy to stand up for the truth, prove them wrong and convinced those fools that you are not a myth/legend/fairy tale?

  431. Arya Anand says:

    Yes, Grace is good to the extent she does not resort to physical violence like Muslims when her blind beliefs in myths about Jesus are rejected by free thinkers.

  432. BustedDivinity. says:

    Excellent article Mr.Sina, to pick a particular god and attribute to it every conceivable power that nature provides is not only a logical fallacy of ‘begging the question’ but also a self-indulgence that excludes reality, untill one has an objective proof, one has wishful thinking,these gods especially the monotheistic versions are mutually exclusive, people didn’t use reason while becoming believers, therefore it will be hard for reason to get them out, but then, they are free to get religiously intoxicated as long as they don’t harm no one.

  433. John K says:

    It goes both ways. We don't set good examples of the grace of Christ when we use language that is below his dignity.

  434. John K says:

    Hi,

    We have serious problems in the White House right now. Since the eruption of the Middle East, it has been increasingly aware that Obama is a fan of Islam, but is no fan of America. He is letting American allies be taken down while dragging his feet on stopping America's enemies.

    The integrity of each politician must be evaluated individually. In the US, action groups publish voter guides showing how each politician has voted on key issues. It is a constant problem that politicians do not vote the way they promised they would in their campaigns. This is not always their fault. Often when they get to Washington, they have to get along with the rest of the party, and also realities don't always square with politics. Many accuse Romney of not sticking to his positions, but having a business executive background, he has learned to evaluate situations and adjust if he learns he is doing something wrong. So he should be seen as progressing and improving rather than waffling.

  435. everin says:

    Thus message is for John K.
    Since u are with US millitary, I would like to tell u that why yr Pes. Obama has no balls to take Col. Gaddafi out of the picture quickly in the civil war now raging in Libya. This war if prolonged, oil prices sky-rocketed, the whole world suffer. The US needs to avenge the Lokerbie Pan Am bombing, which killed over 250 US citizens.Do u need George Bush or Reagan to do the job? Or the politicians in the White House are promised lucrative projects in Lybya by Gaddafi? Just as Ali Sina said they will sell their mothers for money.

  436. Arya Anand says:

    @Continuum

    Many verses of four Vedas make mention of Agni(Fire), Vayu(Air), Vishnu, Varuna, Yama, Indira, Rudra, et al having been revered and worshiped by people during the Vedic period. Does it sound monotheistic?

    Dayanand Saraswathi who founded Arya Samaj in the 19th century, simply said all these are different names of one God "Brahman". Like Muslims call Allah by 99 names, he also gave nearly 100 names of Brahman.

    There are some verses in Vedas that speak about oneness of God. So it seems that the Vedic verses were composed by ancient poet Rishis according to their thoughts.

  437. Ali Sina says:

    This is true. The truth and falshood of a faith cannot be determined by the zealotry of its devotees. On the contrary, the more the followers are fanatical, it follows that their faith is cultic in nature. No one can question the faith of the suicide bombers. Does this mean Islam is true?

  438. Arya Anand says:

    @ Rick

    Cult members are always on their toes to endure sufferings, pain and even painful deaths for the sake of their cult leader and his lies. It does not make their cult a sensible and true religion.

  439. Rick says:

    I was an unbeliever in God many years back and after high school i began to do research on all religion..finally i discovered that out of all religion, christianity makes more sense..after much research and praying about it, i became a christian because i saw that early disciples and followers of Jesus endure pain,suffering and death proclaiming about him..then i thought that there must be something about what jesus claimed who he is that makes his followers are willing tn endures all such persecutions..and i wonders if jesus teaching is a big lie why are they willing to die for a lie..there must be something about him!

  440. kolip says:

    GOD is just like water, a trinity concept, now you see it, now you don't, you feel it but you can't touch it. These are happening all the time and real. A simple as that.

  441. everin says:

    Dear Ali Sana,
    0 x a = 0…… so 0 / 0 = a ……. ' a ' can stands for anything from man to animal, to all the things on earth and on the stars. 0 is God and the spiritual world. Therefore , this proves that when God divide by Itself, you can have everything to infinity. It is creation itself of all things, earth, stars, man, animals, plants, mountains,seas, etc, etc. etc. If God wants to finish u off, He just 'mutiply' u by 0. So 0 x u = 0. So back you go to the spiritual realm. U can destroy every thing but not zero. So God is indestructable..
    0 / 0 is creation is creation itself that fits with The Big Bang theory of creation.

    Any comment, all the ladies and gentlemen.
    Thank you..

  442. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee Chan, I'm still waiting for the correct answer from my beloved rationalist, atheist hero, Dr Ali Sina, with regard to my super simple question: "Does Spirit Exist?" but it seems that he has chopped all his fingers off again after they've grown. For goodness sake, you should ask him for the truth and not any cash reward!

  443. Agracean says:

    Are you crazy, Mr Charlee?

  444. Agracean says:

    Oh my gosh, Mr dumb Charlee! Is your mind unsound or has that dead Japanese guru's teaching turned you into an idiot uttering rubbish like a parrot? I certainly don't want to end up being a cuckoo bird like you after joining this JOHREI religion!

    Mr Cuckoo Charlee, how do you know that all my friends will not listen to my most sincere advice till Judgement day and what kind of 'concrete' benefits are you referring to here?

    Anyway, the rest of your above comment shows your current state of mind. Mr Charlee, it's time for you to renounce this Johrei religion and seek the Way, the Truth and the Life because He has the Words of life!

  445. everin says:

    SO GOD IS LIGHT, AS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE.

  446. everin says:

     Dear Agracean, The more u argue the more rubbish, like coconut head, ring worm, anus, etc., u spit out. Go and see why so many practicing Christians, Buddhists and even some Muslims attend the Johrei’s  and piggy back rider Mahikari’s light-giving sessions.  Certainly, they do derive some benefits.  U can, by all means, give yr sermons to them until Judgement Day n they will not listen to u, my dear lady. Because yrs is all talk and no concrete benefits. Action speaks louder than words, as the English has said. Nostranamus had said something like this “ He ( Jesus ) was awaited anxiousiy in the West, but he came from the East.” Maybe Nos was talking about the reincarnation of Jesus. Mokichi Okada mostly likely was the man as he has brought God’s light as a concrete proof.   God always do his work in a mysteriously way and want u to be awakened and come to Him or His light.  Okada was denounced by the people, just as Jesus was in the old days When he started his sermons. Okada was locked up in the prison but Jesus was crucified. Bear in mind, NOTHING VENTURE, NOTHING GAIN., lady. Try Johrei , if it is no good, leave it. U have nothing to lose. OK??? AAAMEN  Charlee. 

  447. Agracean says:

    Mr Khader, do you know that your words stink like bullshit because your mind is full of bullshit organisms? It's time to clean your foul mouth and mind with a super strong disinfectant! Hope that it will totally destroy all these stupid harmful organisms residing everywhere in your body.
    Your last sentence shows that you are simply too mindless and too dumb to understand God's great salvation plan for all human beings including.

  448. Agracean says:

    Say that to yourself, Mr Khader.

  449. Agracean says:

    Hi Vik, a fool says in his heart that there is no God.

  450. Agracean says:

    I'm pleased to know that you find our debate interesting and you've confessed that it sort of stimulates your mind which is planted in your balls to think that indeed, it is you who have failed miserably on your part to realise the truth that all human beings, including you, are the generator, the operator and the destroyer who have caused so much troubles, miseries, sorrows and destructions in the world and the fact that my loving Creator God has done nothing wrong.

    Last but not least, if you are happy, sad or suffering from any minor or major sickness or that you faced any small or big problems or financial difficulties, do humble yourself and pray to my beloved great healer and physician, Lord Jesus Christ, whether in your bedroom, toilet or anywhere on planet earth because you are His beloved child and He loves you more than words can say. He will surely help you and heal you too, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed and the good news is that ALL ARE WELCOME, as long as you a human being!

    Love Grace 🙂

  451. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr Charlee, I'm really glad to know that you and your daughters have this privilege to receive formal education from Christian schools. So, by right, you should be knowledgeable and wiser than me with regard to Bible knowledge because I studied in a school which forced me to study Buddhism instead of Christianity although they knew that I'm a Christian.

    However, our debate shows that you have absolutely no idea what Christianity is all about! I guess that you must be daydreaming about that dead Japanese guru during lessons. No wonder you do not agree with the sermons and the bible because your heart is full of the false promises of Mokichi Okada and that you could only take in only his stupid teachings about temporal peace and temporal health of which I see is no difference from Muhammad bin Abdullah and his Islamic teachings!

  452. everin says:

    Hi Agracean.,Christianity is a good religion because of its charity works n its many missionary schools, where my 2 daughters and I had studied. ( I am forever grateful to the Christian organizers of these schools.) It has beautiful churches with melodic hymns. But I do not agree with the sermons and the bible. I will call a spade a spade and I did not want to believe in any untruths or pseudo truths any more. I can only take in those teachings acceptable to my logical mind. Anyway, I have had an interesting debate with u. It stimulates my mind to think about the ways of GOD = the Generator, the Operator and the Destroyer. Thank you. By the way, if u are suffering from any incurable diseases, do visit  a Johrei centre. Most probably u can find a cure there. ALL ARE WELCOME. Bye !   Charlee.

  453. John K says:

    Well, I too found your posts to be quite insightful until we arrived at this one sticking point. But I respectfully beg to disagree and hope that the foundation of this alliance to defeat Islam is not disrupted through lack of mutual respect for one another's beliefs. I love Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. I reject all calumny and false accusations directed against him. He has never done anything to deserve the curse you have pronounced upon him, nor the defamation of lumping him together with Muhammad.

    Christ said that the Holy Spirit is like the wind that comes and goes when it wants, and thus that we cannot decide when we will have a spiritual experience, but I can say that the most consistent times that I can say spiritual experiences come is through personal prayer, reading the scriptures, listening to hymns and listening to or reading the words of the leaders of the LDS Church.

    I read Ali Sina's, Do You Have a Cause, and I have taken it to heart. But this cause is about being against something. We also have to stand for something. The Mormon Church is the best thing that has ever happened to me in my life. Negative things that are said against it do not square with its reality. The Book of Mormon is the only book published that contains a promise from God that if you ask God, he will tell you that it is true through the Holy Spirit:

    Moroni 10:3-5

    3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

    4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

    5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

    I have done this. I know the Book of Mormon is true as certainly as I know Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that Joseph Smith is his prophet who restored his gospel here in the latter days.
    http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro/10.3-5?lang=e

  454. John K says:

    Well, having love in your heart is the face of opposition is truly admirable, and the main thing Christ asked of us – by this shall men know that ye are my disciples, that ye love one another.

  455. Agracean says:

    This BustedDivinity is drunk and he's spouting nonsense again.

  456. Agracean says:

    Hi John K, I love those 3 so much that it doesn't matter to me if they are for me or against me. All it matters to me is for them to come to terms with the ultimate truth. Do rest assure that I will always stand up for what is right. 🙂

  457. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, I've forgotten to inform you that I fully agree with Dr Ali Sina's 'Dare to know' post about the behaviour of hermit crab and I think that it's time for me to help all the hermit crabs like you, my beloved hero Dr Ali Sina, my dear friend, Mr Jonathan Harrel and all Atheists, Pantheist, Theist and all other yeast friends to abandon the comfortable hermit crab shell and come to terms with the absolute truth that my loving Creator God exist! How? Can you kindly go and discuss with my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina and my dear friend, Mr Jonathan Harrel my this super simple question: "Does Spirit Exist?" and give me the correct answer?

    I strongly believe by the grace of God, all my dear friends here, including my beloved Dr Ali Sina, will be happy to know the absolute truth! Thank you in advance. 🙂

    Till now

  458. Agracean says:

    Mr Charlee, kindly stop spouting nonsense here! When did I conveniently leave out the Cornpernicus’s story and other incredible tales from the bible as per your stupid claim? Please read all my earlier comments and get your facts right.

    Don't spit out wild accusations on me, Mr Charlee! How do you know that I refused to see the truths? Are you a ringworm in my rectum? Please always bear in mind that it won't affect or hurt me in any ways, whether you shake or pinch or punch your hairy balls because that's your private property and not mine!

    By the way, how can I heed your stupid advice to digest all the wrong ideologies instead of the absolute truth? Sorry to have hurt your male ego and pride.

    Grace 🙂

  459. everin says:

    Hei, Agracean, U conveniently left out the Cornpernicus’s story n other incredible tales from the bible but spit out wild accusations on me.. U refused to see the truths in Ali Sana’ “Dare to know”.  Do I have to shake my balls to wake u up to the truths which hurt u very much. Go and digest thoroughly  Ali Sana’s “Dare to know” . Sorry to have hurt yr feelings. Charlee.  

  460. Val says:

    John, I can read what you are posting on this site and know that you are a sensible person. No doubt about that. Nearly every Mormon I've worked with in the past was a case of monumental tragedy, i.e. they are good people who have become victims of fraud. Mormonism absolutely does not elicit the kind of hate you get from Muslims out here in the battle field. I love Mormons and I've been deeply moved by many of them in my life. May Muhammad and Smith BURN FOREVER IN THE LAKE OF FIRE for all the tragedy they have caused. These crimes rise to the level of crimes against humanity so surely these evil men will forever dwell in the seventh level of Hell.
    We, the orthodox Christians (core beliefs, incl. Catholics), wish to deprive Satan of his bounty. We are seriously working to gain all Mormons for Christ by converting the leaders of the LDS church itself. You can expect, in the near future, to hear that the leaders in SLC have chosen the path of Worldwide Church of God leader Howard Tkach who converted his entire false religion to Christianity by renouncing the false teachings of of WCG founder Herbert W. Armstrong. The power of the sheer goodness of the Mormon congregation, with the Holy Spirit, will cause the LDS church to reject the teachings of the convicted fraud Joseph Smith. You guys are in for a rollercoaster ride that you didn't bargain for. Christians should gain much from LDS joining the ranks of Evangelicals because frankly, Christian denominations need help learning how to work together, learning how to work as a more seamless, single, Body of Christ. And this will come to pass in your lifetime.

    Val

  461. John K says:

    "As to harmonizing the theory of evolution with the Biblical account of creation, I do not believe it can be done, and I do not see why it should be. The story of Genesis is beautiful, and profoundly significant as symbolism: there is no good reason to torture it into conformity with modern theory." – Will Durant

  462. John K says:

    Good point. I've often heard men of great accomplishment credit God for the flash of intelligence and inspiration that enabled their accomplishments.

  463. John K says:

    I don't take anti-mormon sites as objective sources of information, and I've studied mormonism long enough to know you are barking up the wrong tree. And I know that the rigor of Dr. Nibley and FARMS are sufficient to be published in peer-reviewed academic journals, so I'm obviously not going to prefer the opinion of someone I meet on the web.

  464. Agracean says:

    Hi Mr Charlee, what a coincidence that you're the same age as as my father! Finally, Mr Charlee, you've decided to stick your turtle head out of the turtle shell and let me know that you are a man and not a woman! No wonder you like shaking your balls as mentioned in one of your earlier comments! LOL.

    Mr Charlee, I think that you should not use your daughter's name at all even though you are using her computer. Isn't there an option here for you to change your name freely? This is a matter of honesty and courtesy.

    By the way, I'm not a bigot or a fool like you and your fellow friend here from JOHREI who are blinded by the teachings of a dead Japanese guru! Yes, I did read and study history , Mr Charlee but I'm more interested in important matters than this petty squabbles.

    You are absolutely wrong to say that I'm full of aggression, Mr Charlee! Everybody here, including Dr Ali Sina, knows that I'm a kind, beautiful and intelligent Christian lady who's full of love except you! 🙂

  465. Val says:

    John,
    Objectivity is a not a "card" and I'm not an "anti". I've been extracting rational thought from false prophet victims for over 20 years. Every victim has the ability to see the light but they must start with a dedication to following the truth wherever it may lead. After Muhammad, Smith is the second most obvious fraud in the history of religion. He was absolutely 100% a polygamist pedophile prophet just like Muhammad. No difference on that front. P3 classification is the simplest way to KNOW a false prophet is a fraud. No need to consider anything else, just ask the question: Did the person create a religion that promotes polygamy and child marriage and then take advantage of that opportunity to so-called "marry" as many children as possible. See http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org
    That's all you need. Nothing more is required. You can discard Nibley and FARMS and just focus on the one, simple, obvious principle of right and wrong. Anyone with a conscience can do it and become enlightened. You don't need to refer to the Book of Abraham, the missing "golden plates", the character of Smith and his crimes as revealed by those close to him (those with nothing to gain), the weak Elizabethan English attempts to sound like the Bible, or even the well-established fact that Smith was a convicted fraud.
    As I said in my earlier posts, recovery from Islam is more difficult because of all of the other false prophets seeking to steal your mind and waste your time. It is truly a case of nefarious persons seeking to capitalize on people when they are vulnerable.
    To every former Muslim I say, please don't become a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire". DO NOT become a victim TWICE!

    Val

  466. Agracean says:

    Oh, my dear rationalist, atheist hero, Dr Ali Sina, I missed you so much and I'm so glad that you can exercise your fingers and write a few sentences here to show me that your rational mind do care looking for the absolute Truth afterall! 🙂

    Oh, my dear Dr Ali Sina, how can you say that Science is based on instrument and measurements only without acknowledging and appreciating the greatness and beauty of its CEO? Yes, I'm using the internet and I give thanks to the good and kind CEO of Science Who graciously bless a group of human beings whom we laballed them as 'Scientist' with this precious scientific knowledge and they used this precious gift of scientific knowledge bestowed by the CEO of Science to bless you and me in return!

    Well, my beloved Dr Ali Sina, blind faith in god has produced Muslims and Muslimahs while faith in the true living God will produce good Samaritans who uphold the Golden Rule! 🙂

    Oh, my beloved Dr Ali Sina, faith in the founder and CEO of

  467. Agracean says:

    Hi Light-cures-all, your above comment is similar to that Ms Everin and I wondered if both of you came out from the same vagina or what?

    You said, "Better to use a handphone ( Johrei ) than the outdated public phone ( Christianity)". Come on, Mr/Ms dumbo! Let me knock some commonsense into your coconut head by rephrasing your above stupid comment : "Better acknowledge all the liars from Japan to be your father and mother than your real parents who gave birth to you and raised you up!"

  468. Agracean says:

    Again Ms Everin, you prove yourself to be a real coconut head and idiot with the rest of your queries. I guess that you like shaking balls all the time, that's why you imagine that God is 'shaking balls in heaven'! I can understand why you like shaking balls because of the fact that you have no balls, so you like to shake other's balls for fun! lol.

    Let me ask you this super simple question: " Why my beloved Lord Jesus Christ has to be prosecuted and be crucified on the old rugged cross?", so as to help you to answer all the rest of your above leftover questions. 🙂

  469. Agracean says:

    Ms dumb Everin, you said, "God never want to commit adultery because it is a great sin. How come He got a son called Jesus?"

    Come on, dumbo Everin! I wondered if you are truly an ex-Christian as per your claim or that you are just lying here to promote your new age Japanese religion? Go and find out what's the meaning of adultery first and then, be serious, go and read and study the Bible. The answer is all written in the Holy Bible. 🙂

  470. Agracean says:

    Regarding your enquiries about the features and skin colours of different races, don't you know that people of all races actually have the same brownish pigment called melanin? Those who have a great deal of melanin are deep black in colour. Those with little melanin are European white. And there are, of course, many shades in between from dark brown to yellow.

    When the skin receives too much sunlight, the chemical system of the body will try to shield and protect it by producing more melanin. In the same way, the colours of our eyes are due to the amount of melanin in the iris. Those who have more melanin in the iris have dark brown eyes. For those who have none, their eyes appear to be blue.

    Similarly, melanin is also the factor that determines the colour of our hair. Although climatic conditions do play a role in the skin tone, genes nonetheless have the potential for extreme colours and features. God has put within a human being an awesome potentail of varieties in DNA. Endless combinations of features are made possible by couples all over the world in every generation.

  471. Agracean says:

    Hi Everin, I'm sad to know that you are too dumb to understand the Way, the Truth and the Life based on your own coconut head and isn't it true that's the reason why you are a real idiot when you turn your back on Jesus Christ and became a mockingbird, following a dead Japanese guru and his strawman fallacies!

    Regarding your claims that the earth was flat as written in the older version of the Bible, please let me know which Bible are you referring to? Are you referring to Muhammad bin Abdullah's Bible or what?

    I've never come across such a lazy bum like you in my entire life! Let me teach you how to fish instead of waiting for me to supply you the fish. Why not start to pray to Jesus Christ, read and study the Bible, watch some documentary shows produced by the National Geographic Channel and also, visit the Library and do your own research instead of waiting for me to spoon feed you with the truth about Noah's ark and whether we are Adam & Eve's descendants or not?

  472. John K says:

    If you read the Bible you would know that the Jews did not take his life, but rather he laid it down for us.

  473. John K says:

    Bubble inside the mind is too cynical.

  474. everin says:

    Agracean, Yours is the REAL coconut head to believe the earth was made in 7 DAYS and that it was FLAT as was written in the older version of the Bible.  Other incredible stories from  the Bible include Noah’s ark.  His ark must be as big as the earth to save all the animals from Australia and the Americas. Are we the descendants of Adam n Eve?. If so, the Europeans must look like Negroes n the Chinese look the Red Indians, because we all came from the same parent. God never want to commit adultery because it is a great sin. How come He got a son called Jesus? Jesus was resurrected from death. Where is he now? Shaking balls in heaven when many Christians are being prosecuted/killed on earth.  How could he rise to heaven when he was in flesh and blood ? Any scientific proof.?  U idiot.!  Everin.

  475. everin says:

    Val,  Almost all religions are started by a man receiving some revelations from a supreme spiritual being.  Not every creative guy, or TOM, Dick, and Harry can do.  As human progress, God has to give new teachings to fit the new situations.  Johrei and the copy cat Mahikari had spread all over the world from Japan. Surely they must have some spiritual power. Otherwise, u think the smart Europeans and  Americans will join these religions.  I left  Mahikari, because they kept asking for more donations and I found out that it rides piggy back on Johrei.  I was told that Mahikari has made a lot of money and sent to Japan. If the members’ sicknesses not cured, do u think they will donate the money stupidly?  The founder of Mahikari was sacked from Johrei which was the first  light-giving organization.   Europeans are always skeptical of Eastern religions. But “the taste of the pudding is in the eating” as the English has said. If the doctors tell u that they cannot cure your illness, then go to Johrei. Most probably, the light of God is your last chance for a cure.   U should judge all religions by their performances and not by your prejudice.everin     

  476. John K says:

    Move the conversation to Freedom Bulwark if you can't get Intense Debate. Or use a Tor proxy.

  477. John K says:

    It is surprising to see someone is this day and age trying to play the Mormon-Muslim card again. The anti-mormon movement has had to discard its old ammunition due to the increasing international recognition of the professionalism of Mormon scholars.

    A better treatment of the issue is an article by prominent BYU professor of ancient history, Dr. Hugh Nibley. The article can be found here:
    http://tinyurl.com/274qfa6

    A decent writeup on Dr. Nibley is at Wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Nibley

  478. John K says:

    You should link your user name to a Freedom Bulwark profile so you can communicate in the Private Messaging System.

    The administrators don't want personal information posted here.

  479. John K says:

    Well, I'm glad you haven't. You have to be an actor, not a reactor. What if it was those 3 against you and no one was with you? How would that be different from 1 million for you and 3 against you?

    How is this different from 1.5 billion Muslims against us? How is this different from the US soldiers horribly outnumbered at the Battle of the Bulge? Or the defenders of the Alamo?

    Stand up for what you feel is right. If you get knocked down because you were wrong, get up again. It's not how many times you fall, it's that you get up each time.

    (as an aside, I once thought I made a mistake, but I was wrong B) )

  480. John K says:

    I agree with this aspect, but I think you have to be seriously into it to access this realm. I don't think they have power to do routine haunted house scenarios, but they do have power to influence through temptation.

    An example of a Muslim getting so deeply into Islam that he reported gaining powers from demons is in former Iranian Hezbollah member, Afshin's, story here. This type of thing is not commonly reported, though:

    Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvvClFSMIzA

    Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM3VqbhVDtM

  481. John K says:

    Since I agree with Einstein's belief that science will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of God, your caveat, "until" is meaningless. The main thing is to be firm and confident in our faith such that we are not upset by external factors. I was raised a scientific atheist, and we can see in science that they are constantly reversing their positions on matters like a fuel injection computer that constantly switches from lean to rich to lean and back in the quest for perfect stoichiometry, which is how it should be. Science is continually refining its theories, but for us consumers it means that first butter is bad and we should eat margerine, and then margerine is bad and we should eat butter.

    I also cited elsewhere on this site Amber Pawlik's, Islam on Trial, as a good defense of objectivity against the assaults on reason poised by Postmodern liberal progressivism and Islam. It is important to have confidence in man's ability to know and discern:
    http://www.amberpawlik.com/IslamonTrial.pdf

    I wouldn't worry about people with spiritual experiences with false prophets. Spirituality seeks its own level, and each false prophet will attract those on a similar spiritual plane. Looking at American converts to Islam, I noticed some, not all, but some, who have a hardened look who look like they were like that before converting, and Islam suited their spiritual hardness.

    "For they love darkness rather than light, and their deeds are evil, and they receive their wages of whom they list to obey." – D&C 29:45
    http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/29.45?l

  482. John K says:

    Facing evil in this life is part of God's plan for us. Satan did not defeat God's plan, but enabled it. In heaven, God could only talk to us about evil. We had to come here to experience it for ourselves. We see suffering all around, but Christ has given us victory over all. The sting of death is swallowed up in him. We will all be resurrected, and Satan's momentary victory in causing suffering and death is of no long-term consequence. In the end, we all will have gained wisdom from the experience.

  483. Vik says:

    U r right mr sina. Agreed that there is no god. God is just a bubble inside your mind. Logic. Science and explanation can help the bubble to burst. Good one.

  484. Agracean says:

    Hi everin, I have to admit that I really marvelled at your foolishness and unbelief. You've mentioned in your earlier comment that you were an ex-Christian and now, you've turned your back on Jesus Christ and became a mocker who chose to believe in one of planet earth's new found religion started by a dead Japanese guru by the name of Mokichi Okada (Meishu-Sama)!

    I wonder if you have ever seriously spent more than 5 mins of your time in your entire Christian life, to read the Bible? Your above comment reflects your ignorance. Well, let me now show you a passage from the Bible, so as to knock some sense into your coconut head.

  485. Agracean says:

    🙂

  486. Ali Sina says:

    Science is not based on senses. It is based on instrument and measurements. You are using the Internet thanks to science. Show me what blind faith in God has produced

  487. Val says:

    Is anyone aware that both Smith and Muhammad can be classified under the label "Polygamist Pedophile Prophets (P3's)"? Dr. Sina has done worlds of good by challenging everyone to look at the character of Muhammad, and to consider "if there is a God, he would never send such an overwhelmingly immoral person as a prophet". Smith's claim is no better than Muhammad's. Both men are examples of rabid narcissists who invented new religions for selfish purposes. I've studied P3's for most of my life and determined to focus on the P3 phenomena rather than on individual persons. The P3 phenomena has been recurring over and over since way before Muslims and Mormons. Criminals proclaiming "I have a new message from GOD! He said to send me your children that I may molest and rape them" has many more examples in history than just Muhammad and Smith. Even today we have such criminals using the P3 principle, people like Tony Alamo, Warren Jeffs, and Brian David Mitchell. Societies resulting from P3 are remarkably similar insofar as they always result in a lot of deal-making between friends and relatives to essentially sell-off attractive children to so-called "elders" or religious leaders for child marriages and resultant rape and molestation.
    Enlightened civilizations need to be aware of the P3 phenomena so that they can ALWAYS KNOW that anyone who uses religion to get their hands on the children is NOT A PROPHET.

    Val

  488. Val says:

    Everin,
    Do you know how many religions have been created by creative people? If you think this is good then why not try Scientology, Islam, Mormonism, or the many others that rely upon the creativity of humans more than anything else? Anyone can write a book and invent a new religion. It's happened so many times that it has become quite a challenge to keep up with all of them. Without exception they all have some good ideas. They all make big claims. They all use a mix of truth and fiction to convince people to follow.
    If you seek God then it makes sense to seriously consider the following: If there is a God, then how would such a being likely relate to us or communicate with us? Would such a being be silent until the year 1920? I don't think so. Creating the universe is no small task. You can expect any extant creator to start communicating with humans early in the process. You must look at ancient religions to find such a God. Creators of new religions know this fact so they always try to somehow link themselves to ancient religions and they always ultimately fail to make the connection. In the case of Islam, the fiction authors worked very hard to make a connection to the Abrahamic religions. For centuries the Imams were successful at fooling millions of people into believing that Islam is a continuation of the Abrahamic tradition. In modern times, examination of Muhammad's claim to a connection to Christianity and Judahism has revealed that no legitimate connection exists. Muhammad, like so many before and after him, tried to piggy-back upon the Abrahamic tradition but he failed because his Allah and Islam itself are the polar opposite of what's found in Christianity and Judahism.
    Many recent New Age religions have dispensed with trying to make a solid connection with ancient religions, preferring instead to create some kind of new path to some kind of God. The identity of God is always a critical key to understanding. The identity of the Christian/Judaic God is quite specific. The interloper "Allah" is known to be not the same god. The evidence for this is overwhelming. New Agers often want followers to dispense of any need to identify a specific god. This is dangerous because so many demons have set themselves up as new gods with new religions attached. You cannot know who you are worshiping unless you have successfully identified him/her/it. Does that make sense?

    Val

  489. Val says:

    The Internet is so kewl, it took less than 5 minutes to look up "Johrei" and connect it to the appropriate branch of religion to which it belongs. This one is fairly new, invented in the 1920's by a Japanese artist. Johrei is a New Age religion with ties to the Eastern religious traditions – expect to find remnants of Shinto (ancestor worship) and Buddhism within this new religion. It has an interesting yet quirky element that's similar to Falun Gong – a focus on health and nutrition. Johrei is an interesting construct developed by a very creative person. If you want to live like a rat in a maze with no hope of ever getting anywhere, then by all means, spend a couple of years (or decades) on this one. It could lead to temporary happiness and bliss for a while.

  490. Val says:

    Hauntings and other malicious spiritual phenomena can be quite real manifestations from fallen angels, a.k.a. demons. For those who understand OT/NT scripture, it's clear that such manifestations fit with what we should expect in this fallen world. Fully one third of the angels were cast down from heaven. They were jealous of mankind because God was focusing his attention on them. Now they are sworn to destroy mankind and disrupt God's plan to whatever degree they can. I'm not into thinking about them but I feel it's important to be aware of them and their motives in order to understand how the world works.

  491. everin says:

    Dear John, walk your talk. Go stay in a haunted house and give a report. U are still a hopeless armchair critic. U can see karma in action.  Why USA has to spill its blood in Afghanistan and Iraq and to spend trillions of USD to do battles there. This is a purification of sins and dirty money.  WHY DID THE TERRORISTS ARE SO STUPID AS TO ATTACK A SUPER POWER? Why not Tibet or Nepal?  They must be programmed to do so by Divine arrangement.  It is just like if u eat too much dirty food, your stomach will have a purification process called diarrhea or food poisoning.  Simple as that. A natural reaction formulated by God. “For every action there will be a reaction”  U should remember which scientist said that.    Aaa-men.

  492. Light-cures-all says:

    Dear Grace, please go to Johrei centres to receive God's love in the form of His light. No point talking of those mostly-man-made ideologies. Christianity is good because of its charity work, but that is not the whole picture. Better to use a handphone ( Johrei ) than the outdated public phone ( Christianity.). God is Light, as stated in the Bible. Aaa-men

  493. Val says:

    So it's come to this: posting comedians on a forum about God. I watched the whole thing. I pity this poor guy who is now dead. RIP George Carlin. Seriously though, I get exactly where he is coming from. Frankly, there is a lot of suffering in the world. No doubt about that. Is it God's fault? If not, then exactly who's fault is it? You know the world wasn't supposed to be like this. If it started out so well, with a paradise called the Garden of Eden where nobody had to work for a living (free food, water, air, etc.), the what happened to ruin it? I mean, there weren't even any rules. Except for one: don't eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. What kind of idiot would mess up paradise by breaking the singular rule? And why would they do it? Answer: they got fooled by a narcissist who claimed to have "special knowledge", knowledge that could be gained simply by breaking the singular rule and eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If only Mr. Carlin could have understood these things before he died.

    Val

  494. Val says:

    Thanks for the insight, John. I should re-state as "For me, the answer is that God exists until they find irrefutable evidence otherwise". It's certainly true that most Christians do take exception to my "until" but I must remain grounded in rationality. My belief can be summarized as "Faith based on evidence". It's the polar opposite of blind faith. Internally I do not believe any "until" will ever occur. Externally, in the face of so many false prophets, I exclaim that I am grounded by rationality, without which I could not effectively make an effective case against false prophets. I really do listen to people with other belief systems, including Atheism, and I give them a legitimate try at changing my beliefs, and that's true even though I've experienced the Holy Spirit in my life. Subjective experience is one kind of evidence. No doubt it is overwhelming vs. anything else. But there's no shortage of false prophet victims who claim to have had spiritual experiences in line with their false religion. Evangelism must be able to account for all of this or it will fail.

  495. Val says:

    Continuum,
    Thanks for the correction. You have made it very clear that the concept of observation comes from Buddhism and not the Hindu religion. I accept this, my understanding is now corrected. Your knowledge of the Gita and Vedas is quite amazing. I've never seen or heard anyone skillfully defending the concepts found therein. Believe it or not, much of the understanding of Hindu in the U.S. is still affected by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, a.k.a. Mr. Rolls Royce. He was exceedingly ethereal about everything, hence my suggestion that the observation concept must have come from the Gita or other Vedas.

    Val

  496. Jonathan Harrell says:

    Yep, Grace is good:)

  497. Khader says:

    Grace ,
    Please dont come here & Blabber .
    This is Not a place for you …. You bull shit.
    This is a Place where intellects share their ideas about the Existence.
    But You Mindless Creature Shouting about a Man called Jesus.

    If Jews killed Jesus , I would Worship Jews. Becuase They have the power to Kill You GOD.

    🙂 : ) : )

  498. Khader Mohideen says:

    You are a Mindless Creature .

  499. Continuum says:

    I believe that the futile idea that an observer is required for anything to exist must have come from the Bhagavad Gita or some other Hindu vedas.

    Actually neither Bhagavad Gita nor any of the Vedic texts proclaim as such. . The ideas may arise from these texts, but these texts in fact condemn such an idea.

    Both these texts are THEISTIC to the core. To call the world illusory would be to cut its (Vedic and Gita) own root, which these texts do NOT do.

    The idea that the world is illusion was IMPOSED on these texts through artificial and twisted interpretations of the texts. There is clear evidence for this in the Vedic texts and GIta themselves.

    vishvaM satyaM maghavAnA yuvoridApashchana pra minanti vrataM vAM (Rigveda 2-24-12)

    The world (or existence, vishvaM) that is Yours, O Ruler of existence (maghavAnA), is real or true (satyaM). Even the waters do not transgress your laws.

    kavirmanisi svayambhUH yAthAtathyato.arthAn.h vyadadhAchchhAshvatIbhyaH samAbhyaH (White Yaur Veda 40:8)

    That omniscient, self-sustaining Lord, the controller of all minds, has eternally created all entities (arthAn.h) (in an infinitude of cycles of Creation) in reality.

    Imagine a text talking about powers of God(s) over elements of creation (as waters etc. above) and then saying creation is illusion. Vedic texts do NOT do this. Vedic texts are a lot more logically concomitant with its statements than all the abrahamic texts.

    Same goes with Gita. The sixteenth chapter of Gita describes "evil souls" and their characteristics. (However anyone possessing one or more of these charcteristics are NOT necessarily "evil souls". This is a subtle philosophical position of Gita.)

    "The world is unreal, without a support," they (evil souls) say, "without God, (world) is NOT produced as things mutually related as cause and effect. What then (kim)? It, the world, is quite another thing (anyat, different, neither real nor unreal). It (world) is caused by Kama (desire)". (Bhagavad Gita 16:8)

    Embracing this view (as stated above), the evil-minded souls of small understanding, of fierce deeds, the enemies of this world are born for ots destruction. (Bhagavad Gita 16:9)

    Clearly Gita teaches reality of the world.

    Observe the statement "It (world) is caused by Kama (desire)" from Gita. It clearly refers to the claim of world getting its reality from observation or desire in mind for the world which precedes observation of the world.

    ==================

    Now compare Buddha's teaching which is polar opposite of this. Infact Buddha's teaching is exactly ditto as explained in Bhagavad Gita 16:8.

    1. Buddha claims world has no objective reality and/or objects possess no intrinsic properties (svabhava in Sanskrit).

    2. Buddha claims world is an interdependent phenomenon arising from desire or more correctly world exists because of observation.

    3. Buddha claims that the world is neither real (no objective reality) nor completely unreal. It is something different or another (anyat).

    4. Buddha claims there is no God or in Vedic Sanskrit term "There is No Atman".

    Atman is a Vedic term for God in the context which Buddha addresses. This term "Atman" has multiple meanings depending on context, just as the word "Lord" in English may take multiple meanings.

    5. Buddha denied validity of Vedas for the above four reasons.

    ===========================

    Now anybody who claims Vedas teach as Buddha taught is lying and twisting Vedas.

    Buddha's teaching is the first attack on Vedic teachings in India which cut at Vedic texts' very root, namely its philosophy about existence itself. Those who claim otherwise are only purporting Buddha misunderstood Vedic teachings, which I DO NOT buy.

    Actually Buddha's teachings were NOT new. Such teachings were prevalent before, but received wide recognition again after the advent of Buddha. Vedic position is philospophies merely manifest themselves and then unmanifest again in cycles. Nothing new under the sky. There are also very old Upanishadic texts (preceding the birth of Buddha) which condemn such teachings.

    Those Hindus who claim Vedic texts or Bhagavad Gita teaches (as Buddha did) that "the world is neither real nor unreal" is misinterpreting Vedic texts and also Bhagavad Gita and/or is NOT honest.

    ================================

    Hopefully this clears the confusion that is widely prevalent among both Hindus and Westerners (or any non-Hindu) regarding what Hinduism's orginal texts teach.

  500. Will says:

    Waiting for new articles

  501. John K says:

    Good point Val. Amber Pawlik made a similar point about the assault on reason and objectivity, which is also a foundation of the leftist Postmodernist movement, in her essay, Islam on Trial:
    http://www.amberpawlik.com/IslamonTrial.pdf

  502. John K says:

    You must be kidding. What kind of fool is afraid of a haunted house. This kind of superstitious belief is a retrograde and a retreat from the European Enlightenment.

    What evidence is there for karma? Is this another superstition? What is the physical process by which it is executed?

    If you are satisfied that when you die you will not rise again, you can return to the despair of the Existentialists for whom the ultimate question was whether or not it was better to wait until you die, or just commit suicide now.

  503. John K says:

    The director of NASA's Big Bang Project appeared on the Larry King show and said that the intelligence of the math behind the Big Bang proved to him that there was an intelligent Creator.

    You cannot prove a negative though. "The answer is that God exists until they find irrefutable evidence otherwise." Not being able to disprove something is not proof. Paul said that faith is evidence of things that are not seen, which are true. Christ said that he would send the Holy Spirit to testify of the truthfulness of all things. I was raised a scientific atheist. Only through personal experience with the Holy Spirit did I become a believer.

  504. John K says:

    Good thinking, Val.

  505. Val says:

    This is an excellent article to comment on from multiple perspectives. I have found that nearly all escapees from false prophets (including myself) end up rejecting the whole concept of "God" out of sheer disgust for false prophets. After a period of time had passed and I was able to regain full objectivity, I did re-accept God but it wasn't the same as before. Dr. Sina is absolutely correct that the Islamic Allah is pure fraud. The overwhelming frustration for a Muslim to come to that conclusion is more than enough to paint with a broad brush and say that no god is real. But time heals all wounds. Once full objectivity is regained, false prophet victims come back to the central existential questions that they know they must answer in order to have a defensible and complete worldview. The biggest tragedy for such victims is that there are many more false prophets out there to steal your mind and waste your time. Some of these false prophets get their victims under the guise of "science". Therein lies the success of false religions like Scientology (Hubbard) and Christian Science (Eddy). Even the word "science" creates an attraction because most people think it leads to objective truth. But the corruption of science by so-called "scientists" who are driven by nefarious motives is well documented. The seeker must drill down into the "science" to see if it is corrupted by nefarious motives. Popular culture today is pre-packaged with nefarious motives disguised as "science". Why did the comical idea of "Global Warming" get so much attention before it was shown to be false? Nefarious motive: redistribution of wealth around the world – punish the successful societies and reward the laggards. This one is brought to you by socialists who decry the vast differences between wealthy and poor countries. Darwin had nefarious motives, he was no pure truth-seeker. The same can be said of many physicists with their wild dreamed up ideas of how empty space was suddenly filled with vast galaxies of stars and planets. Trying to explain the Big Bang without God is so utterly futile that they have resorted to science fiction beyond what can be found in any novel.

  506. everin says:

    Your answer is evasive. Go and stay in huanted houses if you dare, and give me a report. No use being an armchair critic.
    As "for Jesus has rised". You know it is a lie, because any one of flesh and blood cannot fly to heaven. No scientific proof.
    Anyway, I can tell you is this " No one can intervene with THE LAW OF KARMA, not even Jesus". Everyone deserves what he get by Divine arrangement . Be it good or bad.
    The law of karma is here to balance man's deeds. Good deed will be rewarded, just as bad ones will be punished, maybe not in this life but in the next..
    Maybe if you do a lot of good deeds, your punishment will be lessen, not by Jesus but by your very own action. Aaaamen..

  507. Val says:

    It is very good to see that you believe in objective reality independent of an observer. I believe that the futile idea that an observer is required for anything to exist must have come from the Bhagavad Gita or some other Hindu vedas. That religion is full of circular logic intended to confuse people so much that they stop asking existential questions. Somehow that kind of foolishness invaded American Universities some 50 years ago and it's been very effective at silencing curious minds. Along the path of my life, I think those ideas might have fooled me for maybe, oh, I'd say about 3 seconds.

  508. Val says:

    Great article! I sincerely hope that the LHC scientists are able to devise a test plan to prove or disprove the multiverse theory. It should be pointed out that many physicists have been having a fit trying to disprove the existence of God ever since the Big Bang theory was proven to be correct. Right now, as it stands today, God is a proven fact because of the Big Bang theory. The physicists were pretty angry about the whole situation so they fired up their imaginations with the singular goal of disproving God once again. The theory of evolution was another casualty of the Big Bang theory insofar as it previously was dependent upon the trillions of years (or more) that would be necessary to go from single cell to human beings. All of sudden, with the Big Bang theory, they got boxed into a few billion years and the "macroevolution" dream fell apart. As far as the highly imaginative 10 dimension theory, or string theory, or unified theory, or m-theory or whatever will come next, let them dream on and on. The difference between reality and science fiction is so blurred by these guys that they've managed to confuse everyone. They have us on a rollercoaster of endless theories to disprove God. Somehow, many people are convinced to suspend judgment on the issue until scientists come up with a theory with some basis in reality. They aren't fooling me. The answer is that God exists until they find irrefutable evidence otherwise.

  509. John K says:

    This is all a lot of speculation and conjecture hinging on your words, "could be". You have no objective studies comparing the types of experiences. Dr. Sina cites some such studies in his book, Understanding Muhammad. I told him I agree with his analysis of Muhammad's mental disorders regarding TLE, NPD, schizoid disorder, OCD, etc, but that I felt that the studies indicating that spiritual experiences in healthy brains are a result of cerebral malfunctions is too cynical of a view.

  510. John K says:

    I can't believe you really believe those TV shows. They are just fake exploitation films to make a quick buck.

    Elementary depends on your standard of evidence. I have degrees in Humanities, Comparative Literature, Linguistics, and Chemistry. A Comp Lit professor once told me that our religion is the only one which is philosophically sound. Now that is a statement that I heard over 30 years ago. I filed it in the back of my mind, and occasionally do a status check on it, and I can say that over the years, I increasingly see the truthfulness of that statement.

    As for Christians being persecuted and killed, faith in Christ means knowing that no matter what happens, everything will be okay.

    "He is not here, for he is risen."

  511. BustedDivinity. says:

    Whether you call it spiritual or emotional one fact remains the same: humans have almost 100% uniform senses, the variety of spiritual high I get in a rock concert could be equated to Grace’s spiritual response to a Church music, by the way I’m no football fan,

  512. everin says:

    Talk logic, man!. Christians are still being prosecuted/killed in many Muslim countries. I was born a Christian but after I learnt the teachings of Johrei, I found Christian's ideology is so elementary, not acceptable to my logical mind. As for huanted house, you never stay in one to experience the horrors of it. Go see the American TV shows – A Huanting, John.They are based on the true experiences of people staying in huanted houses. Better still, You go and live in a huanted house. Then tell me what u see. OK ?

  513. John K says:

    Correct. Einstein said the same.

  514. John K says:

    You seem to be living proof of the destructive trajectory of atheism as discussed by Will Durant:

    "Hence a certain tension between religion and society marks the higher stages of every civilization. Religion begins by offering magical aid to harassed and bewildered men; it culminates by giving to a people that unity of morals and belief which seems so favorable to statesmanship and art; it ends by fighting suicidally in the lost cause of the past. For as knowledge grows or alters continually, it clashes with mythology and theology, which change with geological leisureliness. Priestly control of arts and letters is then felt as a galling shackle or hateful barrier, and intellectual history takes on the character of a "conflict between science and religion." Institutions which were at first in the hands of the clergy, like law and punishment, education and morals, marriage and divorce, tend to escape from ecclesiastical control, and become secular, perhaps profane. The intellectual classes abandon the ancient theology and—after some hesitation—the moral code allied with it; literature and philosophy become anticlerical. The movement of liberation rises to an exuberant worship of reason, and falls to a paralyzing disillusionment with every dogma and every idea. Conduct, deprived of its religious supports, deteriorates into epicurean chaos; and life itself, shorn of consoling faith, becomes a burden alike to conscious poverty and to weary wealth. In the end a society and its religion tend to fall together, like body and soul, in a harmonious death. Meanwhile among the oppressed another myth arises, gives new form to human hope, new courage to human effort, and after centuries of chaos builds another civilization."

  515. John K says:

    You are not in a position to evaluate the nature of another person's spiritual experiences based on your own experience with football intoxication. Nor is there any scientific evidence for the Bible being a book of myth. That is only one of about 7 different scholarly views on higher Biblical criticism.

  516. John K says:

    Belief in haunted houses is not very orthodox Christianity.

  517. John K says:

    He does. Why did you leave the faith? You must not have studied much while you were a Christian.

  518. everin says:

    I was a Christian before and I learnt that Jesus was resurrected from dead. Where is he now ? Why can't he come and heal the sickness of the thousands of good Christians and stop the killing of Christians in Indonesia, East Tumor and other countries.. Pease give me a good explanation, Grace. Tq.

  519. everin says:

    Dear all, please go to the Johrei centres to learn about the latest info about God and to receive His light for the improvement of your lives. God is light as mentioned in the Bible. No point arguing when no miracle can happen but action now.

  520. Some Guy says:

    Ummm….no. Grace does not threaten people with violence.

  521. everin says:

    I do not believe in any religion the cannot performs miracles. Go to Johrei centres and see people receiving light to have their incurable diseases cured. That is what I call a true religon, that can walk the talk.

  522. everin says:

    trying to stSometimes, youYou can see the imprint of God in a huanted house where there a spirit occupying it and causing troubles to anyone ay there. can see its apparitions. It is a spirit of a man/woman who had passed away. If there are spirits then there must a supreme spiritual Being, who controls everything from the Law of Karma to Newton's laws and other laws. If God do not balance the movements of the planets, they will collide with one another, or move towards the sun. All of us would be killed long time ago. It is the miracles performed by God that we thrive on this earth. If you want see miracles go to Johrei centres and receive the light of God to relieve your sickness or other problems. By the way, I do not believe in any religion that cannot perform miracles. You have to be smart ,man. Aaa-men.

  523. BustedDivinity. says:

    @Grace
    You asked a question on the nature of spirituality, well I’m not Sina the man you asked, but the answer could be simply we don’t know, it is the religious that thinks everything must have a ready answer which will ultimately wind down to the ever cyclic loop of ‘god did it’ nothing comes from nothing, then who did god? did it come from nothing? then why are you astonished that life evolved (abiogenesis?)
    But through deductive reasoning we can attempt to see that a child knows nothing but with time his brain accumulates information, forms an opinion through the interactions of the chemicals in the brain cells, power of suggestion from parents and friends naturalizes his spiritual world view, survival instinct through fear and awe further cements the spiritual thoughts,try differentiating emotion from spiritual you might understand me more, so the next time you get high on Jesus, know that a football fan feels that way too, opinion is far from being a self made truth, scientists respect the uncertainty principle to avoid dogma despite their precision in interglactic voyages through gravitational assists and their heroic molecular acievement in nanolithography, still, you remain so certain of a book of myth that calls a bat a bird, so much for precision.

  524. BustedDivinity. says:

    @Grace
    It is obvious that reason is an alien concept to you, your cherished belief is a result of a morbid ignorance of the early humans who thought natural disasters were supernatural, mathematical errors, biological and geographical fallacies are intrinsic to your holy dictats, the early philosophers you so despised are the ones that laid the foundations to our technological and democratic acievements,Pythagoras and Plato predated your Jesus yet they gave us geometry that allows us to draw lines on the circle to form bearings for our airspace navigation so also a plausible system of government, your OT and NT concept are no more credible than the scientologist’s OT 2 or 3, your resurrection story is as unrealistic as the Scientologist’s story of Xenu in the Volcano, I consider it a child abuse to brainwash a kid before allowing him/her to be old enough to form an opinion, you are an example/product of such a crime.

  525. Syed Rizvi says:

    The closing line of this article is:

    We cannot prove that God does not exist, but we can prove that Allah is the figment of the imagination of a mentally deranged man.

    But I would recommend a quote from Woody Allen:

    "There is no way to prove there is no God. You have to take it on faith."

    Reference: The Quotable Atheist by Jack Huberman page 9

  526. Jonathan Harrell says:

    The point is not that you are right and I'm wrong, the point is that what conclusive proof you have, like giving reason. We can't blindly believe in anything, we need reasons and valid ones. Calling someone dumb, egoistic and bad is not a solution.

    "Does Spirit Exist?"

    Well, I don't know, I believe in love, sanity, reason and truth. All in pure forms, not mapped under religions or culture. I respect yours, because Christianity doesn't kill me for being what I'm, unlike Muslims.

    You cannot paste your religion on me, because this is the way I choose to live.

  527. Grace says:

    "People will always support what they want to hear, they will not support what don't want to hear. And it happens most of the time that what they don't want to hear, is the truth." Why fools don't want to hear the truth? Because Truth is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    Why rationalist, science atheist, pan-theist and other such fools reject Truth? The reason is simply because of their pride and ego. They can't accept the truth that God and Spirit exist!Ok, I'll leave this site for good since this is Dr Ali Sina, you and this mr Continuum's wish. I love you all. God bless.

  528. Grace says:

    What a convenient excuse from a pan-theist like you, Mr Jonathan Harrel! The proof that you can spend so much time in the world to post that dead uncivilized joker, George Carlin's offensive video clips here in Alisina.org, and can't even gave me a logical answer shows that you are lying.

    Obviously, every rationalist, science-atheist, pan-theist or whatever yeast you can find in this troublesome world, can't provide an answer to my this super simple question: "Does Spirit Exist?" Why? If any of the above category of fools can produce the correct answer, they will have to come out from their hermit crab shells and announce to all their foolish friends that God exist!

    Sadly, my dear pan-theist friend, Mr Jonathan Harrel, is reluctant to admit the truth that God exist because he is complacent and reluctant to abandon his comfortable hermit crab shell. Most importantly, he is very fearful of losing all his dear rationalist and atheist friends!

  529. Johnathan Harrell says:

    I've got no time

  530. Johnathan Harrell says:

    Hinduism and Buddhism share a common thread as far as I know

  531. Johnathan Harrell says:

    I agree, and I agree with Continuum too, Grace, you should take a break.

  532. Bill says:

    "People will always support what they want to hear, they will not support what don't want to hear. And it happens most of the time that what they don't want to hear, is the truth." – Jordan Maxwell

    Excellent quote Jonathan!

  533. John K says:

    The director of NASA's Big Bang Project was on the Larry King show. He said they had the math completed to just a fraction of a second after the bang, but that then the math fell apart.

    Still, it is a tremendous accomplishment that they were able to get the math that far back.

    He said that in working on that project, the intelligence involved in the math meant to him that there is an intelligent design.

  534. John K says:

    Closer, but blew it on the court data.

    Haven't lost the bad attitude either.

  535. John K says:

    Read Dr. Sina's Understanding Muhammad for a list of the criteria defining a cult.

    The way the word is thrown around like this, it has merely become a pejorative against anyone's religion that you don't like.

  536. John K says:

    Is this moronic statement the most intellectual contribution you can make to the social dialog?

  537. John K says:

    Okay. Just thinkin' ! 😉

  538. Grace says:

    Mormons are cults!

  539. Grace says:

    Mr Jonathan Harrel, I've posed my super simple good question to our dear Dr Ali Sina: "Does Spirit Exist?" in order to help him and you and others to come to terms with the ultimate truth that God exist. But so far, I'm still waiting for all his fingers to grow and give me his good reply. Can you check if he is ready or not? Or maybe you could discuss this question with him and give me the correct answer? Thanks in advance. 🙂

  540. Grace says:

    Dear Mr John K, the fools I'm referring to here are those human beings who says in their heart that there is no God. I bore no hatred against such a group of human beings but only agape love because of the Golden Rule. I think that the verse you quoted is referring to those malicious slanderers or self righteous human beings.

  541. Grace says:

    You are right, Mr John K.

  542. Grace says:

    I'm lost for words that you could actually confess that you adore this joker and 'great philosopher' and even branded him as 'one of the best of all time'! I hope that my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina, will counsel you and make you a better person in life.

  543. Grace says:

    Hi Katy, it's my pleasure to know that you are from Ireland. I've decided not to call you a dumbass because a good Christian reminded me to set a good example for some uncivilized mammals here. Please be informed that I idon't belong to the kitchen at all! Don't you know that I belong to Jesus Christ? 🙂

    You asked me where in the world I live? I've just migrated to an island which is very near to Canada, where my beloved hero, Dr Ali Sina, lives. I've been to Disney land last December and it was fun but they rejected my application to be a permanent resident there because I don't buy their fairy tales! LOL.

  544. Continuum says:

    Compare Nagarjuna's Mahayana school with Advaita, on the concept of Nirvana and Moksha, twofold and tripartite classification of reality, and Shunya and Nirguna Brahman. Every one of these concepts in Advaita is ditto Mahayana School's philosophy. It is clear case of plagiarism.

    Buddha's concept of Shunyata is that nothing in reality posssesses intrinsic property (Svabhava) or Guna. Nirguna Brahman is exactly ditto Shunyata. when you deny something does NOT have intrinsic property you deny its very existence, or at the least you redefine existence itself which is what Buddha and later Shankaracharya copied.

    Besides this you can also refer to tripartite classification of reality between the to schools.

    Check what is Parikalpita (Illusory), Samvritti (conventional knowledge) and paramArtha (ultimate knowledge) in Nagarjuna's school, and compare it to pratibhasika satta (illusory reality), vyavaharika satta (conventional reality) and paramarthka satta (Ultimate reality).

    Nagarjuna concludes that Nirvana is here and now, just like Moksha is attained once one knows one's real identity here and now.

    There are way too many coincidences between the main concepts (meat of philosophy in both schools) of Mahayana school of Buddhism and Advaita to disregard. Clearly Advaita founder and later his followers too plagiarized from Buddhist school.

    Infact rival Hindu schools (some among the 6 schools like Vaisheshika etc.) openly criticized Shankarcharya for this and called him crypto-Buddhist.

  545. RC is the way to be says:

    Thank you, sorry I stand corrected: Two families of Israelites built a ship and sailed across the ocean. They were lost in a severe storm and ended up in Central America, or there abouts. 600 years later, the resurrected Jesus appeared to their descendants, and taught them the same principles he taught in Jerusalem. After just a few days, he left, saying that he had others that he had yet to visit. 400 years later, the Nephite civilization was conquered in war; the surviving men, women, and children sacrificed to pagan gods. We know the conquerors as the Mayans/Aztecs, who had a habit of conquering neighboring nations looking for people to sacrifice to their gods. Moroni, one of the last surviving Nephites, left the country of his birth to escape certain death. He eventually traveled to modern day New York, where he built a stone box and buried the record we now have as the Book of Mormon.
    Joe smith dug (wrote) it up and procliamed it real. Later he recanted in court.
    Islamists at least some say Jesus did not die but Judas was put on the cross instead, and Jesus was spirited (pun intended) ti India…lol.

  546. Katy says:

    Mormons are Morons

  547. Katy says:

    Hey stupid Grace, listen, you are so dumb to use internet. Why not go back to your kitchen? You call him stupid? Didn't saw what point he made? Where in world you live? Disney land?

    Katy
    greetings from Ireland

  548. Jonathan Harell says:

    cheer out, its just for fun, he is a comedian icon and a great philosopher. One of the best of all time. Didn't mean anything to you at all.

    "People will always support what they want to hear, they will not support what don't want to hear. And it happens most of the time that what they don't want to hear, is the truth." – Jordan Maxwell

  549. John K says:

    Well, the thing is that she is a part of the dialog and has a right to be heard, but there is also such a thing as being overbearing. It is sufficient to express the thought once. Repeating it over and over again is poor etiquette.

  550. John K says:

    Civil dialog is not served when we refer to our neighbors as fools.

    "…whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

    "Love thy neighbor as thyself"

    "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them"

  551. John K says:

    "Mormons think Jesus sailed to the Americas…lol."

    You should fact check before posting. When you make one blooper like this, it reduces the credibility of the rest of your posts.

  552. shrek says:

    continuum,

    Only if you have time and you come to see this comment, it would be very nice if you expand on a line you wrote: "Later Monistic Hindus (Advaita) grafted (I should say plagiarized) Buddhist teachings into Hindu teachings."

    Which particular school of hindu philosophy borrowed from Buddhist teachings? Is it 'Advaita' philosophy?

    Could you point out in brief the similarities between the two schools of thought to be sure about the above?

    Thanks.

  553. RC is the way to be says:

    I pray daily, not always knowing if I am being heard… but yet I must be, as I have so much to be thankful for.
    I say not always, as I have had small miracles happen in my life as a young man that shaped my faith… I can say what I believe even when it is not popular. I love science but in the end I love God more.
    Science will answer many questions that are held mistakenly close by some, who like Muslims can't see the message.
    However many more questions will form.
    Peace.
    RC is the way to be.

  554. RC is the way to be says:

    The story of the Bible is the WORD of GOD but written (with man's fallibility) by many to explain their beliefs. It was shaped over time to become the complete Bible (with the Deuteron Canonical) and has withstood the tests of time.
    Luther and others took one line and made a new religion out of it…but even that can be proven false now…in "faith alone", Luther miss quotes a German Bible…it did not state "alone". And dispelling "tradition" and false preferring to use the Bible alone to teach… Even in the Bible it says to keep to the traditions and the teachings. Written and aural.
    Others (masons) have claimed bloodline of Jesus… comical in my opinion.
    Mormons think Jesus sailed to the Americas…lol.
    In the end, it boils down to a constant revelation through the Saints who live among us.
    Mr. Sina, look past our in abilities to explain all, but see the truth that is echoed for over 4000 years.
    Even satan never says there is no God.
    part2

  555. RC is the way to be says:

    Sorry for those who seem a little full of God, but through small miracles of the Holy Spirit, we believe. Roman Catholic doctrine is simple when it comes to the origin of the universe: God is the Creator but the Word of God is man's interpretation. The Bible is not a Science text, nor a history book but a guide to reveal God's relationship with us. There are many contradictions in the Bible to allow for our growth in knowing Him. At first we needed Law to keep us in line… Now we need Love to accept others. Every man in the Bible was a sinner except one, Jesus who is God. Only one person died and rose from the dead to everlasting life, that is Jesus.
    part 1

  556. Grace says:

    The fact is Scientists, Atheists and other fools cannot answer this question because they deny the existence of our loving Creator God and they have no knowledge in this matter at all. 🙂

  557. Grace says:

    Dear rationalist, science atheist Dr Ali Sina, the truth of the matter is if you can answer my this super simple question "Does Spirit Exist?" correctly, then, you'll realized that you ought to truly humble yourself before our beloved Lord Jesus Christ and acknowledge Him as your Lord and Saviour.

  558. Grace says:

    Dear Mr Continuum, thanks for your 'most sincere advice'. Take a good look at all your external organs now. You need them to remind you that you are a liar when you deny your Creator God. Right now you must be feeling ashamed of yourself before Jesus because he's here to help your unbelief.

  559. Arya Anand says:

    It's a very fine article.

  560. Ali Sina says:

    "I think, rather that the conclusion should be that observed properties of the particle in question comes into being only after observation, which (properties) was until then mere probability… "

    You are right Continuum. This is a much more accurate description than what I gave.

  561. Continuum says:

    Grace,

    My sincere advice. Take a long break from this site. You need that to regain an equipoised state of mind. Right now you are feeling very insecure because people here are breaking your cocoon i.e. belief.

  562. Grace says:

    Dear Mr Continuum, isn't it true that action speaks louder than words? Thanks for admitting the fact that my loving God is greater than any observer because He is the Creator God and you are his masterpiece. So, it's time for you to swallow your pride and seek Him before the end of your life.

  563. Continuum says:

    The Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten, Marduk from tutelary of Babylon and Zoroaster (usually placed in the early Iron Age) were the earliest monotheists recorded in history.

    Actually Vedas predate both of them. There is clear mention of Monotheistic Being in Rig Veda, the earliest among Vedas.

  564. Continuum says:

    Quantum theory posits that matter behaves either as particle or as wave, depending on whether it is observed or not. If it is observed it acts like particle and matter is formed and if it is not observe it acts as wave and no matter is formed.

    I think you are interpreting the phenomenon of "wavefunction collapse" (probabilities of observed variable turning into a definite value) when an observer sees the particle.

    However to say that that the matter iself is only formed on observation is erroneous interpretation in my opinion.

    Therefore, it follows that everything you see and the world around you comes to being because you observe it.

    I think, rather that the conclusion should be that observed properties of the particle in question comes into being only after observation, which (properties) was until then mere probability…

    The question about existence (philosophically ambiguous or vague term) is more complicated. We first need to come to consensus as to what constitutes existence of matter AND/or their properties.

    Deeper understanding on this subject requires a paradigm shift in my opinion.

    But as Descartes pointed out, you must exist to observe and hence someone must be observing you. Now this leaves room for an ultimate observer that observes everything. Could this ultimate observer be God?

    Now the question is who is observing this "Ultimate observer" for "Him / Her / It" to exist?

    This will lead to infinite regress, a logical fallacy.

    Rather one can assume, all conscious units are self-aware and so ever-existing, which would be scientifically not acceptable.

    or

    Observers exist because different observers observe each other and also oneself and therefore exist for a limited time period based on other unknown factors.

    Existence can be mere inter-dependent phenomenon and NOT an objective intrinsic reality as modern day science thinks.

    An example is "music". Music exists only as long as there is someone to hear and an instrument to produce. By Music, I mean the human experience of music and NOT the vibrations.

    In a similar way, all so called existence can also be mere phenomenon like music, existing only because of interdependent nature of "existence" itself.

    Now this is the position of Buddha, that all existence is in reality "Shunya" (Indian concept of zeroness), although the word "Shunya" in Sanskrit language existed even before Buddha was born.

    There is nothing called as intrinsic property of particle or any substance or non-substance…All existence is mere interdependent phenomenon void of any real intrinsic property or objective real existence…

    This was the first radically different concept (Shunya) of existence that Buddha came up with, as opposed to Vedic (First Hindu scriptures) concept which purported that all things have intrinsic property and do exist as objective reality as modern day Science does.

    Later Monistic Hindus (Advaita) grafted (I should say plagiarized) Buddhist teachings into Hindu teachings.

    ============

    Now I do NOT subscribe to this Buddha's understanding of existence and do believe that all existence does have objective reality independent of observer.

    However the observer may still cause certain effects on existence bu his mere act of observation.

    Will appreciate any input from other.

  565. Grace says:

    Dear Mr Jonathan Harrel, when you stop subscribing to George Carlin's insanity? It's time to grow up, my dear friend!

  566. Grace says:

    Frankly, Mr Jonathan Harrel, I'm really lost for words after watching the above inhumane video clip which you've posted here in Alisina.org. Although I'm not a Catholic lady but I do know that Mother Theresa was once a devout Catholic lady who lived a life of charity. Is this the way you should treat a Catholic lady even though she might be wrong? I see no difference between you and Muhammad bin Abdullah at all? Why follow and be influenced by this insane dead fool, George Carlin's stupidity and foolishness? Don't you agree with me that our dear Mr Jonathan Harrel should act like a gentleman be be more compassionate, my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina?

  567. rationalistt says:

    All posters here are ignorant blabbers..shouting each other down ..blah ..blah.. blam..blamm..blammm..
    You guy's should first read a good book on science and particularly quantum physics before shouting out your meaningless ego-centric blabbers..

  568. Arya Anand says:

    Grace behaves like a typical Muslim.

  569. Grace says:

    Again, you've got the facts wrong, dumbass Katy! We're living here on planet earth and not hell as per your stupid claim. An ass like you are too dumb to understand that this site is meant only for smart human beings and not for a dumbass like you! LOL

  570. Grace says:

    Grow up, Katy! Whether you like it or not, the blatant truth is that God is real. Stop deceiving yourself any further with all kinds of strawman fallacies! Of course, there is no Humpty Dumpty here in Alisina.org but one childish rotten egg here who blames my loving Creator God for all her stupid problems!

  571. Grace says:

    Oh, my dear Mr Jonathan Harrel, the truth is that you are stupider than me because you are a braindead Pan-theist, like the Muslims. Please teach me how to revivie your brain. 🙂

  572. Jonathan Harrell says:

    [youtube MeSSwKffj9o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o youtube]

    George describes it best!:D

  573. Jonathan Harrell says:

    Interesting article, however, some people like won't have brain to think after reading it.xD

  574. Katy says:

    Stop bashing poeple, you dumbass

  575. Jonathan Harrell says:

    Its stupid, you are brain washed like muslims.

  576. Katy says:

    I agree. God has created problems, and people instead of growing up, supports this shit. There is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is not god.

  577. katy says:

    It isn't international CAPS LOCK DAY

  578. Katy says:

    Get the hell outta here, this site isn't for dumbs like you.

  579. John K says:

    I am quite devoted to my religion, but I wouldn't "just accept the existence of God" because someone told me to. This type of blindness is what has oppressed Muslims in so many countries.

    Accept truth from all sources. Yes, we understand that the scientific method has its self-proclaimed limitations. Einstein said we would never be able to prove or disprove the existence of God. But the usefulness of science is evident in what it has contributed to the betterment of mankind. Science knows how to correct its errors. Yes, there are arrogant scientists, or more commonly, lower level educators and pundits, who try to make science more than it is, but they are not pure science.

  580. Grace says:

    Dear Tzh Utmep, it's really foolish and unfair of you to shift all the blame to my loving Creator God. What has my loving Creator God got to do with all the troubles and miseries caused by human beings by their own choices and actions? Do you know the law of cause and effect? We, human beings reap what we sow and we are getting what our deeds deserve. My loving Creator God has done nothing wrong. So, why accuse and blame my loving Creator God for all these nonsense?You are absolutely wrong to say that God doesn't need us! Do you know that you are precious in His sight because He created you in His image and you belong to Him? Yes, you can forsake God but do bear in mind that He will never leave you or forsake you because youa re his beloved child!

  581. Tzh Utmep says:

    The concept of God has created more problems, more miseries, caused more hatred and deaths than it has solved. Even if there is a God, he seems not to interfere with the system that he had created. The universe just maybe a simulation that once created is now running its course, governed by the rules that are part of the algorithm. God doesn't need us, we don't need it. Let's move on and start living without the father overlooking us high-up someplace in the sky. Goodbye God! Its not been pleasant knowing you!

  582. Grace says:

    For goodness sake, my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina, will you still doubt Jesus's unconditional love and kindness for reaching out to save your soul? Both Mr Clinton Richard Dawkins and Mr stephen Hawkings are fools who have absolutely no idea where their address will be when they expire! They can't help you at all. Will you allow Jesus to help your unbelief!

  583. Grace says:

    Let's assume that you've accidentally fell into a rushing river and and many fools standing on the river bank could see that you are struggling for your own dear life but all they could do is to speculate how to save you because none of them has any knowledge in this matter. A life guard happened to pass by, saw your helpless situation and without a word, he quickly removed his clothes and jumped into the rushing river to save you. He could have behaved like the rest of the fools but being the Author of the Golden Rule, he knew that he has to save you, even if it means losing his life to the raging water. He did it soley out of love. However, you are a dumb rationalist who couldn't believe or trust anybody's words, help or love at all unless you are convinced by your rational mind. So, due to your own foolishness, you rejected this kind man's help and continue to remain struggling for life in the raging water, believing that somehow, you'll be safe accidentally because you are an atheist. Soon, the strong current beneath the water pull you down and you breathed your last breath of life before you say goodbye to all the fools!

  584. Grace says:

    My dear hero, Dr Ali Sina, you've got to put your hope and faith in Jesus Christ and to trust in Him now and forever! Why? The simple truth is that He has the Words of life and He loves you!

  585. SINHA says:

    "There are things that we know exist even though we can never see them, because we see their traces. For example, we can know whether a star has a planet rotating around it even though our telescopes do not allow us to see that planet. What we see is a small wobble in the star and we deduce that this wobble is the result of the gravitational pull of a planet. We can even calculate the size and the distance of the planet to the star by measuring the wobble."
    MR SIna THIS IS MENTAL SPECULATION.NOTE THE FACT THAT THE ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE IS BASED ON MENTAL SPECULATION AND IS DEDUCTIVE KNOWLEDGE AND HENCE UNRELIABLE AND IMPERFECT.
    PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT THE SENSES-EYES, EARS ETC – OF A HUMAN ARE IMPERFECT AND LIMITED AND SO WHAT EVER KNOWLEDGE YOU DERIVE FROM SUCH SENSES WOULD BE IMPERFECT.
    SO RATHER THAN ACCEPTING SUCH IMPERFECT KNOWLEDGE, JUST ACCEPT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.

  586. Grace says:

    Dear rationalist, Atheist hero, Dr Ali Sina, do you know why did I say that the Big Bang Theory is a lie afterall? The evidence that this fool who concorted this Big Bang Theory was not even born or present there when God created this marvellous Universe, proves that he is a liar! So how can your rational mind believes in such a stupid theory? Both the Torah and the Bible contains the blatant truth that God is present!

  587. Grace says:

    Oh, my dear rationalist, Atheist hero, Dr Ali Sina! Why not use your good brain now to find out the absolute truth about your loving Creator God before you expire? How could you say that Jesus Christ, Author of the Golden Rule, is a great man who ever walked on planet earth and how you agreed with all His good teachings about the Golden Rule but at the same time, doubted His Words when He revealed the truth that He is the Son of the living GOD! Aren't you calling Him a liar when you said that God does not exist at all?

    The Big Bang Theory is aferall a lie concorted by some fools and yet, it's gaining momentum and popularity with the world of fools, including you, my beloved hero! How could my smart and intelligent hero, Dr Ali Sina, suddenly became so stupid? If you were given only a final chance in this life to choose before you expire, will you place your bet in Jesus Christ or your own finite rational Atheistic beliefs eg, Big Bang Theory, etc? Commonsense tells you to choose Jesus Christ, right? Please wake up and be rational! 🙂

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