Bitter Love: Another Saga of a Muslim Man and a Western Woman

Well, my name is C. I am married to a Muslim Arab man. I was born and grew up in the United States . I was 22 when I met my husband through a mutual acquaintance. Our relationship started online for 3 months until we finally met in person in Rome.

When I went to meet him, I did not tell my mother whom I lived with because I knew she would not approve of me meeting a strange Muslim man. Honestly, I don’t know what I was thinking. Here I was, only 22, and running away from my home, telling my family I was going to work when really I was getting on a plane to meet a complete stranger.

To make a long story short, I ended up falling for him and I eventually traveled with him to his country and later married him, despite hearing stories of guys using girls for their passports and everything. I felt these ladies who got used were older or unattractive. Here I was, a little younger than him and I always considered myself to be a pretty girl. Growing up, lots of guys liked me. Plus, being that I am light and blondish, I felt I was exotic for him so that’s why he was attracted to me.

Anyway, as fate may have it, I ended up filing for him and he came to the USA. Prior to him coming here, I was having doubts about Islam. My Roman Catholic background was just way too strong. My relationship with Jesus has always been a very personal one and I will even go so far to say, growing up I was the most religious person in my family, always praying and listening in church. Still, Islam felt exotic and different. I admired how Muslims seemed so devoted and unshaken, so I was quick to marry him in a mosque and accept a Koran from his family which was given to me the minute they met me.

I pretended to embrace the religion for him, but deep down, I saw how racist these people were. I grew up believing all people were equal, regardless of religion. For them, they feel all non-Muslims are dirty. As an animal lover, I also couldn’t accept how they seem to despise animals, which are God’s creatures and as a Catholic woman, I also admired San Francesco and San Francesco di Paola for all they did for the animals. I can go on and on about the reasons this religion and life style turned me off.

I started to have vivid dreams of Jesus. The summer before he came to the U.S.A., I was miraculously reunited with both people who baptized me when I was a baby. A few months ago, I also went to Europe and prior to leaving, I happened to have a dream where I was told to pray to Saint Augustine. I really knew nothing about Saint Augustine, so I googled him as soon as I woke up from that dream. To my surprise, I just so happened to have this dream on the same night that Saint Augustine is celebrated. Again, I knew nothing about St. Augustine or when his saint’s day was!!! After reading about his life, I was moved to tears. For me, it was too big of a sign that I just so happened to dream about a saint from an Arab country, prior to Islam in Algeria.

To make matters stranger, after a long time of not being in church, I walked into a church and the priest just so happened to be quoting Mark 7:18, which is about Jesus making all foods clean. All these things just felt like signs to me that this life of Islam is not for me.

At one time, I believed my husband loved me. I still love and care about him deeply, but I feel he might never change. He never defended me to his family who treated me terribly, especially his mother who humiliated me by putting on my wedding dress and mocking me after I wore it. He never even defended me against his friends. It’s almost as if they came first because they were his same culture and religion, while I was just a dirty Western girl.

Things are so complicated now. He was an angel when he first came here, sometimes working 3 jobs for me in a day to make money for me. Some days, when I was sad, he would even cry with me. Then, he changed after he met this old Syrian Alawi man (btw, my husband is Sunni, not that it really matters). Anyway, this old man sexually harassed me several times even asking me perverted questions about my mother. My husband just laughs with him. He blamed me for the sexual harassment and says I am just saying this because I don’t like him.

Recently, he has moved to another state where this crooked old Syrian guy offered him a business opportunity to manage a taxi cab company. This Syrian man had several businesses in my state, but the City shut down all his businesses so he moved to another state and my husband followed him. My husband still visits me, but I can’t believe if I was his wife and he loved me that he would leave to run a business with a man in another state. He keeps saying he couldn’t get a good job here. Worse yet, he pretty much makes it seem like he wants me to break up with him now. He keeps giving me ultimatums that he wants Muslim children and if I don’t move to Ohio our relationship is over.

I am going to start Med school, so moving to another state is not possible at this point in my life. He does not even have a place there and I know his relationship with this old man is not solid, because this guy had also employed other young Arab guys who were friends of my husband and then he fought with them and kicked them out of his life.

All the same, I told my husband before he came to the U.S.A., I could only stay in this state and that I was still a student. He agreed. As for the Muslim kids, I just can no longer agree to this. I told him, even though before our marriage I agreed to appease him, this was before I knew the truth about Islam. Now I know, I can’t raise my kids to hate me and my culture and religion, while being close to him and his family who hate me.

For a while, he seemed open to the idea that kids should be what their mom is. He even said for a while to let them decide and he even would listen to me when I talked about Jesus. Now, this has all changed. His Arab friends as well as being in contact with his family again have destroyed our relationship more.

I’m hurt because I really felt I was starting to change him and he became a gentler person. Either way, I’m lost now. I have nobody and I’m severely depressed. I feel this is the end of my relationship.

My family supports me, but they don’t want to hear me talk about my problems with him. They feel I made my bed, so now I should lie in it. I alienated them so much by marrying him secretly. I also have no close friends. Do you know of a group for women like me, currently married to Muslim men or ex-wives of Muslim men? I just want people to talk to.

I am only 24 now and I feel like life is over. My two year wedding anniversary is coming up and I know everything is over. I need some comfort without people judging. I cry all day long. Some days, I can’t sleep or eat. My husband acts annoyed by me instead of comforting me. His ultimatum about Muslim kids has hurt me beyond belief. He knows I won’t accept.

My only hope is that this man will convert to Christianity. I know it’s close to impossible. Do you have any suggestions for talking to Muslims? I just want some peace, even if him and me leave each other tomorrow, I care about him and want him to see the truth one day. Sorry for this long email. Thanks for reading and for allowing me to vent. Please write back and let me know what you think.

 

***

Sorry to bother you again. I just feel so compelled to write to you because I know you were Muslim at one time and I appreciate what you do to expose Islam. I am also trying to find out what the turning point was for you. My husband does not even like to admit there are apostates in Islam! He dismisses it as they are liars or trying to get U.S. nationality or be spies for Israel.

Anyway, today was a rough day. My husband was visiting me for the past few days and this friend of his kept calling, so I screamed while my husband was on the phone and this prompted him to recite talaq. We are still married on paper. Islamic marriage means nothing to me. Still, I know it means something for him, so I am very depressed he would say it after 2 years.

Anyway, from what I understand, you are not practicing any religion right now. I am not sure if you are agnostic or atheist or if I’m wrong and you are into some type of religion, but may I ask, did you always have doubts about Islam or were you at one time devoted? What made you finally see the flaws in Islam? How old were you?  I am obviously Christian and even if I can’t get my husband to convert to my religion. Is there any way I can get him to see the faults with Islam?

Every time I try to have conversations with him to discuss the violence in Islam and the hate Muslims have for non-Muslims, he accuses me of being racist or tells me if I respect him I wouldn’t talk about his religion. For a while, it seemed he welcomed my conversations. Now, his friends have changed everything as well as pressure from his family. Very frustrated. I wish there was a forum or an outlet to meet other women in my similar situation.

 

Dear C,

One thing I can tell you is that life is not over and things are not as gloomy as they appear to you now.  In fact as I see it from my vantage point I think you are in the best time of your life even though you can’t see it now.

This man is not right for you.  Your marriage with him was a mistake and it will bring you nothing but sadness. You cling to him and desperately hope the impossible. The truth is that the best thing for you is to get out of this so called marriage.

You are only 24.  This is the beginning of life.  You have 70 more years ahead of you. Yes you made a mistake, as if no one does. Sometimes mistakes are so innocent and yet the consequences are so severe that it seems unfair.  Imagine you drive a car. You become distracted for a second and an accident happens that leaves you crippled for life.  That is a big price to pay for such a tiny mistake. That is life.

In your case your mistake was huge, but fortunately its consequence is not that big, at least not yet. You don’t have a child, which means you can end this abusive relationship today and forget it completely.  Yes it hurts. But the hurt will go away soon and once you meet another guy.

I am not a religious person. You may say I am agnostic, but for all practical purposes I am an atheist.  I don’t discard the possibility that there might have been some sort of intelligence behind the laws of physics, but I don’t believe in any god intervening in the affairs or the design of the world.  However, I know about the power of faith.  People believing in Jesus and God can see miracles happen in their lives.  I am against fanaticism, not against belief. If you can believe in Jesus this is the moment that your faith can come to your help and pull you literally out of this nightmare you have put yourself in.

All those dreams and those spiritual experiences you are having are telling you that you need to get away from this abusive relationship.  You can believe that God is sending you subtle messages. A rationalist may say those are the voices of your subconscious mind.  In either case you must listen to them.  You must get out of this abusive relationship. This man does not beat you, at, least not yet. But he is emotionally abusing you and these abuses become more intense as you become more dependent on him emotionally.

Islam transforms the psychology of its followers. Muslims are not emotionally healthy people.  They are narcissists, all of them, and to the extent that they follow their prophet. The insanity of one man is bequeathed to his followers and they all show the symptoms of malignant self-love.  That included me when I was still a believer.

The reason your husband and his family and friends disdain and belittle you is because they are narcissists. They can’t help it. It is by demeaning others that Muslims can feel good about themselves.  You can see that in the comments they leave in this blog. They behave like savages – are abusive, violent, arrogant, bully, misogynist, dictatorial and backward and yet all their comments are about how bad are the western countries. Even after America has sacrificed so much to bring democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan, a great majority of Muslims hates America and accuses Americans of killing Muslims. The concept of fairness is alien to these people. They are genuinely incapable of fairness.  Fairness is one of the most important faculties that make us human, distinct from animals.  Muslims lack fairness.  The evolution of humanity in Muslims has not yet happened and as long as they follow a psychopath there is no hope that it will ever happen.

After Americans left,  Iraq is ‘drowning’ in terrorist attacks  American solders were defending the people against the terrorists but since the terrorists were Muslims all Muslims hated the Americans.  This insanity is unique to Muslims and its root is in the Quran and the mental illness of its author.  Muslims can’t tolerate a non-Muslim killing a Muslim even if that Muslim is a terrorist who murders them and rapes them.  This sounds unbelievable, but it is true. If you save the life of a Muslim by killing another Muslim who was about to kill him. The person whom you saved will hate you for killing a Muslim and may want to kill you for  it. There is no logic in this that you and I can understand, but this is the insanity of the Muslim mind.

There is a story of a man who went to Muhammad after hearing he wanted to kill his father. This young man, the son of Abdullah ibn Ubay, begged Muhammad that if he wants to kill his father, allow him to do it. He reasoned that if another Muslim kills his father, as a dutiful son, he will have to take his revenge and kill a Muslim for a kafir, which would mean he would go to hell. But by killing his father  he will not be tempted to sin. This is Islam for you.

Muslims are the dirtiest people and call others dirty.  This dirtiness is a different kind of dirtiness. It is associated with belief.  You can be the cleanest person but if a drop of rain falls from your clothe on a Muslim he believes that you have defiled him.  Because of your faith you are considered to be najis, untouchable. This is not something ignorant mullahs have made up. This teaching comes from the Quran. The Quran says unbelievers are najis.

Muslims project their own undesirable traits on others and despise them for what they don’t like in themselves. But their hypocrisy is such that while they disdain and disparage the west and believe the non-Muslims to be najis, they do everything they can to become refugees in the kafir countries that they hate.

You ask about the turning point in my life that made me see the light and hope to make that happen for this man you love.  This is not something that happens outside you. It is something that happens inside you. To see the light you need to have conscience, be fair and have empathy. When I was a child (10 years old) we lived in a village.  My mother kept a few chicken. They laid eggs which we ate.  One day my father said he invited a guest and asked my mother to kill one of the hens. I hugged the hen selected, hold her to my chest and cried, begging my mother not to kill her. I had seen her grow, and fed her. I could not bear the cruelty of killing her just so our guest can eat chicken. When I was 11, one day of spring, when I was coming back from school I found a little bird fallen from the tree. I could not find his nest. I took him home and tried to nurse him. I gave him minced meet but he could not digest it and died. I buried him and sat next to his little grave crying for hours.  I had a compassionate heart when I was a child.  Cruelty and injustice to others pained me. They still do. I could not understand why Eid Qurbai, the day Muslims sacrifice animals and spill the blood of innocent beasts is the most joyous day for them. How can the sight of blood make them happy?

Don’t expect miracles. There is something missing in the psyche of Muslims.  They don’t have empathy. They don’t have conscience. They have no idea of fairness. These are faculties we expect in evolved or spiritual people.  Muslims don’t have them. Their spiritual faculty is underdeveloped.

Muslims do good deeds, which really is not good deed but mere following the Islamic rituals, for reward. That is all their spiritual evolution allows them to do.  They don’t do any act of goodness for the sake of feeling good about it. It must be for rewards. This alone tells you they are spiritually midgets. We kafirs don’t do good deeds because we expect a return. We do it because it is the right thing to do and makes us feel good. That is not the case with Muslims. It is all about Allah seeing, writing it down and paying you back 10 fold when you die. If this is not pathetic what is?

I know it sounds outrageous and many ignorant people will call me hate monger for saying these things, but the truth is that Muslims are not fully evolved humans.  I don’t give a damn what ignorant people think about me.  I am telling the truth from my perspective, whether people like me or not.  People with conscience exist among Muslims, but they are not the majority and they end up leaving Islam when they learn about it.

Your parents are right in washing their hands and telling you to lie in the bed you made for yourself.  People have to learn from their mistakes.  However, if you were my daughter I would tell you leave this man today.  He already pronounced talaq, which although to you means nothing to him it means divorce and that is final. The legalities are just formalities for him.  If I were you I would jump up and down with joy.  File for divorce and get out of this abusive relationship with this neanderthal now. Kick him out of the house and change the locks or even move to another place where he can’t find you.

It is possible that once he realizes he is going to lose you, and if he still thinks he needs you and has not taken full advantage of you, he may come begging you to take him back.  Don’t be fooled again.

Young people give too much importance to love. The truth is that love is very transient.  You will feel sad for a few days but it will pass sooner than you think. Go out and find friends. Join dancing classes, cooking classes, or become a volunteer. Just don’t sit at home.  Get out and do something.  Twenty four is too young for marriage.  You have plenty of time to find your soul mate and create a happy family.  Ten years from now, when you have a career, a loving husband and a couple of adorable children you may think about now and smile, thanking God for pulling you out of this mess.

Write in the comments. There are other women who have been in your situation. They will leave their comments and you won’t feel lonely.  I am also going to revive the forum of faithfreedom.org where we had a section dedicated to women married to Muslim men.

Be happy.  Getting rid of this man is the best thing that could have happen to you. Don’t worry about helping him.  You can’t help those who don’t want to be helped.  Go to your church when no one is there, sit on your knees and say, Jesus, I have come back to you, please accept me..  Then walk out with confidence and assurance that you are in safe hands.   Go to your parents or call them and tell them you made a mistake and now you have come to your senses and want to walk in the light.

Finish your studies first.  There is no rush to get married. Muslim men shatter the confidence of their women. This is the first thing they do to control them.  Regain your confidence.  Future is all yours.

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818 Responses

  1. Anonymous says:

    I am so glad you are out of that marriage. You have been used but you have a chance to gain your life. Jesus paid for it please do not waste it another day by being spiritually emotionally or physically with this man nor his people. He is one with his religion you need to be one with Jesus he gave everything for you to be free. Take hold of him and be free to live life abundantly! 🙂

  2. Nadia says:

    Please join our page and help other sisters by sharing your stories!

  3. Love & Peace says:

    May I ask that Alisina, who are you? if you really want the best of your reader, identify yourself to us.  

  4. Demsci says:

    //"Your statements are not true."//

    You simply deny something which does not suit you. Or frightens you.

    But what happened in this story may well happen often and again, and again. You should think about the long run and try to somehow fix the problem instead of only denying it, thereby perpetuating it.

    And you show yourself to be prepared to "throw your fellow woman under the bus", saying she lies and that the responsibility for the drama was hers and not Islam in any way. In order to save the reputation of your beloved religion.

    But you seem prepared to betray her for that, by not even giving her the benefit of the doubt.

    At the very best you have a different interpretation of Islam than that abusing Muslim-husband had. But don't you see that that man acted because of his interpretation of Islam? It is shown so clearly here and in many places. And don't you know about Mohammed declaring women insufficient in intelligence? Don't you know about the rule that the testimony of 2 women equals that of 1 man under Islamic law? And you must know that men can marry up to 4 women, but women can never have more than one man.

    If women's rights are in contradiction to how many Muslim men interpret and practice Islam's holy texts, don't you think the fault lies with that interpretation of Islam?

    Or maybe even with Islam itself? For being too vaque, incomplete, unclear, prone to misunderstanding by millions of men around the world? And for being considered divine, making it impossible to improve the clarity of Islam?

    You think the drama happened because of the woman, but what if the drama happened because of Islam? Or a misunderstanding of it? If that is true, then it is going to keep on happening.

    And please don't assume that woman or the posters here do "not know Islam at all". She and several writers/ posters are EXMuslims or experts on Islam. Maybe YOU don't know Islam or maybe you interpret Islam in your own cherrypicking way.

  5. ayesha7 says:

    You don't know Islam at all . Your statements are not true. Do not degrade this religion because you made a mistake and want to make yourself out to be some kind of innocent victim.

  6. IMU says:

    I have two answers for you C. 1) If your story is true, I will try helping you and would surely provide you inputs on how to proceed. Please inbox me at [email protected]. 2) If your story is false, meaning it is only been written here to make this so called "religious debate", then a simple advise to all.. emotions are not confined to religions… even a muslim girl if cheated would face the similar agony… have fun bye

  7. Ali Sina says:

    Why are you staying? No, it is not going to work Leave now, I mean today and for heaven's sake make sure you don't bring to work a child with this man.

  8. Michelle says:

    Oh girl I can relate to you! I married a Muslim man on a whim and it has not been easy. Our cultures are so different that it's hard to co-exist, or to have a great relationship. Remember that good relationships require: friendship, passion and commitment. Ask yourself: is he a good friend to me? Is there passion? Are we committed? If anything is missing, it's time to reason why. It would also be a good idea to learn about abuse so that you can recognize it in your relationship. 

    To tell you my story, and to make you feel less alone, I married a Muslim man I met on the internet. He told me he loved me and wanted to marry me after three days and I went along with it (for some reason I can't imagine). After 8 mo. of talking I went to Europe and spent 3 mo. with him. When I got there, I found out he was talking to other women online, and when I confronted him about it, he made excuses and got angry. That was red flag number two (which I also ignored). After I left and came back to the US, I filed his immigration forms (which cost over a thousand dollars) and con't. to talk to him online. I kept getting a feeling like there was another woman in the picture, but it was so hard to tell because of the distance. When he finally got to the US after about a year, he had a dating profile on his computer out in the open for me to see. He told me it was his friends site (but it had his picture, I mean, how stupid did he think I was?) so, I again ignored another red flag. Our wedding had already been planned and I felt like I had to go through with it. When we were wedding dress shopping, a waitress gave him her phone number and he took it. We had just bought our rings! I married him two days later, to my chagrin. The wedding was not a happy one for me, I wanted to run for the hills, but I felt like I had to marry him because he had come so far to marry me. We are still married, and as far as I know he has been faithful. But he is very controlling and abusive, and it has happened gradually. He seemed great in the beginning, he was very charming. But he has fits of rage in which he breaks things around our house. He is verbally and emotionally abusive. He never comforts me when I cry and tries to control our finances. I have a separate account, so I have avoided complete control in that area. He wants to send most of our money back home to his family who is not suffering for anything, while we struggle to make a living. He tries to control what I wear, but I have let him know that I won't be controlled in that way. He expects me to be home all the time cooking and cleaning, but I have let him know that I'm a student and won't be doing that as much as he would like. He never gives me any praise or compliments. He's very critical of everything, especially my appearance (although he doesn't care about his own health). I'm also at the point where I'm not sure if this is going to work. I've decided to: 1) create and state good boundaries 2) communicate clearly and 3) see if we can work to find a balance between our two cultures. If not, I am prepared to go, because life is too short to be yanked around on someone else's leash. 

  9. Demsci says:

    You are stuck because it is official: It is forbidden to leave Islam on pain of death. Check this carefully if you don't believe us. Muslims may only tell you this when it is already too late.

    Did you hear from Muslims something like: "There is no compulsion in religion" as a rule in Islam? Oh, but we already know and later (when you are inside) they will tell you that that verse is abrogated by the verse of the sword, which means business with war.

  10. Demsci says:

    @RAs
    What is your motivation to become a Muslim? Why the postponement? Do you first intend to have a lot of pleasure with things forbidden by Islam?

    Remember, once you're in Islam you're stuck, in Islam, and forbidden to think outside it's box so to speak, forbidden to believe anything science comes up with that contradicts Islam, stuck in your development in your hopefully long life.

    What if Islam is "perfect" for you and attractive but UNTRUE, only manmade, as is abundantly shown here and elsewhere? Do you still choose for it, just because it feels good? Remember, then heaven and hell are also not true.

    What if you later, when you are Muslim, find out, as we have, that the Quran, which has # 6300 verses, has only 83 "nice verses" and 543 very hateful verses for Kaffirs, non-Muslims?

    What if you later learn that so many of your fellow-Muslims worldwide really are "stuck in the past", narrow-minded, oppressing women? Look at the movie Honor Diaries (easy to google) or it's trailer. In there we see a Taliban-man repeatedly strike a woman with a whip. But you already knew Muslims weren't perfect, of course.

    Can't you find something more useful to do with your life? You could hardly do worse than making yourself a slave (of Allah). 

  11. cchuckc says:

    @RAs
    How do you know its perfect? And perfect in what?

  12. RAs says:

    i am not a muslim… but i am planning to become one after I graduate since i am living in a non-muslim country.Islam is perfect…but not muslims…

  13. Voice of reason says:

    Your response is getting weak and intentionally missing the truth of what he said. Whether he copy pasted or quoted from the koran is NOT the issue. He clearly pasted WHAT THE KORAN ACTUALLY SAYS so drop your redundant talk. And it SAYS Allah leads astray (misguides) whom he will. It's not a case of he could have created all humans as angels but didnt.. its a case of he could NOT LEAD THEM ASTRAY BUT DOES.!!! and this whole bit about about ppl can't see because they dont believe is non sense. All you have effectively said is that even if ppl can see the OBVIOUS flaws all you have to do is apply the filter of presupposition through belief and make it work by doing mental gymnastics. Peace

  14. Demsci says:

    //"But muslim never judge religion from people"//

    Interesting. But according to Muslims God + Mohammed introduced (maybe a better version of) Islam. For what purpose? What influence it was supposed to have? Has it worked? Did it perhaps work for a while, but now no longer?

    What if Islam does not make any significant difference in the goodness, morality, happiness of people? What if Muslims are just as good or bad on average as all the other people?

    Then Islam surely is superfluous. And abiding to it and it's rituals can be classified as a "hobby". Or it is just done to please Allah", who then is very selfish, only asking people to support, gratify, promote himself, not humanity.

  15. Guest says:

    I can agree that the original letter and the response certainly SEEM to have been written by the same person. I can't say for 100% certain. However, I CAN say with 100% certainty that the original poster is NOT a native speaker of English. (English teacher with 15 years of experience with non-native speakers, including Arabic speakers, so I have an excellent ear for these things.) The writer's native language seems to be Arabic given some of the errors he/she makes.

  16. Ali Sina says:

    Sweetheart, when I was your age, I too thought my faith is unshakable. But you are young and there is still a lot to learn. Who can say you won't be the won who will help millions to leave Islam?

  17. Demsci says:

    //"So how can you blame a religion because a person..Islam is a religion Muslims are people. ,people can be good and bad…"//

    Do we blame and oppose Islam because of persons? OK. So now, why do you PRAISE and support Islam? Is this not also because of persons?!

    you must think that Islam is good because Muslims you know are GOOD people. Now then, what if that really is a MISTAKE of YOU?

    Because those GOOD Muslims may be only good because of outside influence and not because of Islam! And you already know, you said it yourself, that there are GOOD people in other religions, beliefs too. So what is it that makes Islam unique, or better than the other religions?

    We say; there is nothing in Islam that is not also found in other religions, so why do YOU keep PRAISING and supporting Islam, so why do you criticize us for BLAMING Islam and replacing it with something we think is better?

  18. Demsci says:

    //"WHO the hell gave right to christian to talk about Islam…..?…….How can an engineer treat a patient and a doctor fix an engine"//

    What you write here is preposterous in a democratic society, Superman! Everybody, knowledgeable about Islam or not, has the right to talk about it! And form judgement, especially when some Christians are hurt by some Muslims. And that happens, a lot, in Islamic countries. And it is known and shown by MEMRITV and websites such as this.

    But also, there are infidels professors and ex-Muslims and interested infidels who know Islam inside out and there are many Muslims who hardly (bother to) know Islam at all. And that is interesting because according to you they need to completely read Islam to understand it. But we know many don't. And misinterpret it. And when we report this, don;t blame us, but educate the misinterpreting Muslims, please.

    But the rule in Islam is that nobody born in Islam may apostasize on pain of death. And why is that if so many Muslims, like the boyfriend in the story, do not even know Islam very well???

  19. shaiva_hindu says:

    That's the line losers often use .The truth is you couldn't defend Islam.There are abundance of facts that islam too is made up of lies.

  20. shaiva_hindu says:

    You should know the facts about Islam first. Try reading your religious books to your satisfaction.

    Take some random facts like pedophilia,child marriage,slavery,hate against Jews ,killing of animals,etc. from Islam question yourself (ask your elders/Mullahs instead if you have guts you'll know another aspect of Islam )are they something a religion should propagate or you should become a medium to propagate such things.

    You should once take a look at the book :Understanding Mohammad by Ali Sina.(If you ask Ali he might give a free copy) to clear your doubts about Islam.

    // our religion is always misinterpreted the thing that is wrong with our world
    Do you know about the debates none of the muslim scholars were able to respond satisfactorily after reading Ali's book.

    You have 2 options :
    1)Read the book then comment choice will be your's.
    2)Live in blind faith without knowing the true face of Islam as most others do.

  21. Demsci says:

    Remember, Halima, back in the time of Mohammed, in the 7th century, there were not so many people as now. And now there is so much more knowledge, literally millions times more, and people are so much better educated!

    And think about it. If Adam was the first prophet, and Mohammed the last, why is the gap between Mohammed and the day of judgement so wide and maybe getting wider for a hundred years from now or more? Between Isa and Mohammed there were merely some 600 years, and MOhammed came to rectify humans. Why wasn't rectification of humans necessary in 1400 years, when humans changed and learned so much?

  22. Demsci says:

    /"our religion is always misinterpreted"//
    And don't you think that that is because your religion is:  UNCLEAR, INCOMPLETE, OBSOLETE, AMBIGUOUS? TOO DIFFICULT to understand? And notice that not only infidels misinterpret, but that millions of Muslims, according to other Muslims, also misinterpret your religion!

    //"today is if they read one thing they think the whole thing is bad."//
    And can't you imagine that those who taught you Islam and you yourself are so naive that if you read one thing that is true and good in Islam, you think the WHOLE Islam is true and good?

  23. Demsci says:

    //"may just be a 12 year old girl but my devotion as a muslim is something that can never be broken even if I'm not the perfect muslim"//
    Halimah, if it is true that you are so young, you are only just beginning life. And it is possible that you live to be a 100 years old. How can you say that your devotion to be Muslim will never be broken?

    First of all, aren't you now fully dependent on your parents and community? Of course you cannot do anything else now than stay in Islam.

    But when you are an adult, then you can choose. And you may find something to replace Islam with. You know, it is simply a wrong reason to be devoted to a religion only because your parents and friends are in it. That was the case with the pagans before Islam too, but Mohammed disapproved of that, didn't he? He was not in favor of eternal loyalty to the religion one is born in, but he was in favor of choosing the best, the truest, religion around, despite what someones parents believed and practiced.

    I believe in a different God and evolution and why is it different now from the time of Mohammed when someone asks persons to shed the false religion of their parents, Islam, and replace it with a truer religion, or maybe set of truer beliefs.

    If your ancient forefathers could change from paganist idolators to Muslim, why can't you in your adult life change from Muslim to a truer religion, a truer set of beliefs? Didn't your ancestors love their parents like you?Or did their parents perhaps let them free to choose?

    Remember, choosing a religion is not about being loyal to your parents or community or people, you can be totally loyal to them in other ways. No, choosing a religion is about seeking the highest truth you can find. and shedding untruth, even if told by parents, loved ones.

    And if parents and loved ones really understood what unconditional love was, they would let you be completely free to search for and belief in the highest truth you can find and to shed untruth.

    But it could well be that both you and your parents/ loved ones just are not committed to find the highest truth and real freedom of religion. And if this is so, how can you criticize or question us, who LOVE TO FIND the highest truth we can find and for that have shedded many untruths? Many writers and posters here DID KNOW Islam, and even WERE MUSLIMS themselves. Why shouldn't they understand Islam better than you and your parents? Why would they have concluded it was false and faulty?

  24. halimah says:

    If anyone agrees with me please post

  25. halimah says:

    I am a muslim and I am totally devoted to my religion everyone here is reffering (looking) at the bad side of islam.I've been a muslim since I was a born and I would not do anything to change it  
    Because I look at my religion in a different way if you look and understand islam properly you will see that it has the answers to the whole world things that just can't be explained.I'm not trying to say all muslims are perfect of course were not no one is unfortunatly there are some bad people out there but be pesamistic look at rhe bright side .if anyones really intrested in what I'm saying or just want answers please look into islam carefully .our religion is always misinterpreted the thing that is wrong with our world today is if they read one thing they think the whole thing is bad. I may just be a 12 year old girl but my devotion as a muslim is something that can never be broken even if I'm not the perfect muslim.I know what I'm saying doesn't really relate to the topic but it's extremely important to me. 

  26. Lenin Gostrich says:

    /Think normally..use the frontal lobe of your brain./

    OK .What do you mean by the term PEDOPHILE?

  27. Superman says:

    But muslim never judge religion from people …only christain do it…muslims read other religion understand it and then judge it..

  28. Superman says:

    WHO the hell gave right to christian to talk about Islam…..?…….How can an engineer treat a patient and a doctor fix an engine…..you all guys donot make sense talking all bullshits….Realting your shit worldly problems to Islam….If you want to marry a Muslim man then covert to Islam then you will know the benefits of Islam…or if u dont want to convert to Islam then marry a christain…Does ISLAM forces you to marry a muslim.????   Little knowledge is a dangerous thing…you need to completely read Islam to understand it…not from a few words from your punk loser friend said about islam…..it is different when you read Islam completely..knowing something alittle bit and knowing some thing completely is hell different…its same as you learnt how to take off an aircraft and you didnt learn how to land…and you are blaming the aircraft…its same as you are watching a movie ,a guy is killing somebody and you said a bad guy a killer ,and you didnt see the movie,s earlier  part where the victum kills his mother…
    There Good people and bad people..I m not defending muslims..Muslims are people they can be good they can be bad…Same as not all the christain are good..there are rapist ,gay, prostitutes…and offcourse Good people…

    If you blame Islam because of muslims then i will say some other christain is using your brain to do it,,,your parents your christain friends all of the anti muslims around you and your society but not you….Again i m not defending islam..

    Think normally..use  the frontal lobe of your brain..MusliM.  Is a person a human,,a man Islam is a religion.   So how can you blame a religion because a person..Islam is a religion Muslims are people. ,people can be good and bad…Or if you dont understood,,,,there are gay and prostitutes and rapist in christain countries ie nonmuslim coutries,,,should the muslims blame christianity for it..does the bile orders you to be gays ,prostitutes and rapist..and use drugs ,night clubs and one night stands and much more….offcourse muslim understand christainity more than christain do as Jesus is mention more respectfully is the Koran.
    So this is the huge shit in christain people mind they judge Islam from people…people can be good and bad…there are good muslims and bad muslims…there are good christain and bad christain..

  29. Unknown says:

    Hey  Mr. Sina, you forgot to write the moral of this story?  OK i will add that for you. 😀
    And the moral of this story is "Haters always hate" I am sure you are part of Zionism which are filling your mouth with money like the Wafa Sultan. And because of people like you, many other people hate good people. Your this blog is doing nothing except spreading hate among Human. Remember one thing, Good and Bad People are everywhere even in Iran and Canada. You proved your wisdom level by this blog 😉
    I read stories and it all seems fake to me. Do you have any source to prove these stories?. In the end i just want to say spread love, not hate. Respect Humanity.  Hope you like the moral of this story. 
    😀

  30. maryam says:

    Why..because we sound literate? Is that how you can tell?

  31. maryam says:

    That's why in the united states we have a seperation of church and state. They cannot co exist.

  32. Demsci says:

    //"I just think you are a bit confused about religion and about Arab culture, because none of the things you mention are embraced by Islam,"//

    Look, Jannah, you visited this website and wrote the above. But if you had thoroughly read this website and that of other counterjihadists, like Jihad Watch, Islam Watch, Answering Muslims, you would know how knowledgeable about Islam the writers and maaaaaany posters, often ex-Muslims, are.

    So they can retort to you: We think that you, Jannah, are a bit confused about Islam.

    Probably because Quran-Hadiths-Sira are too incomplete, unclear, ambiguous, prone to misunderstanding and incapable of improvement by mutation.

    Because while you say that the things mentioned are not embraced by "Islam", millions of Muslims say that they are. And the proof of that is shown all the time on counterjihadist websites and they are very knowledgeable about Islam, from the best sources.

    But not only that, they consistently show, through MEMRI-tv and other sources, what it is that influential Muslim clerics and leaders tell their listeners in the Muslim countries and these say that the things mentioned ARE embraced by Islam. Or should we say "Their Islam"?

    I suggest you humbly admit that YOU do not speak for "Islam" but only for YOUR interpretation/ version of Islam and go from there.

  33. Demsci says:

    //:just because of bad experience we suffered in Muslims hand that doesnt make us blame Islam or see wrong in Islam"//

    And I like to react in the same way to this Muslim. WHY is he Muslim???
    I say: Just because of good experience we (non-Muslims) enjoyed in Muslims that does NOT make us PRAISE and believe in Islam or see the good in Islam.

    Or if we do see the good in Islam, we know that same good, and more of it, and different and better good is also available outside Islam.

    it is my opinion that Muslims should not get away with always denying the bad influence of Islam, while not even questioning the good influence or unique good influence of Islam. Which presumably is the reason why Allah intervened in history and why  they are Muslims.

  34. Demsci says:

    //"Stop blaming islam because u had gotten married to the wrong man. There are bad men all over the world and they need not be muslim to be bad."//

    I only saw this comment just now, because a new comment was posted on this thread.

    I like to react to what this Muslim is saying: Why is (s)he Muslim??? I say: Stop PRAISING Islam because you experienced or heard something GOOD from Muslims. There are good men all over the world and they need NOT BE MUSLIM to be good.

    Because: Muslims are so quick to doubt and deny all bad influence of Islam, but it does not enter their minds that by the same token they are far too gullible in automatically assuming that Islam does have GOOD influence. As long as they doubt, why don't they doubt that?

    And even Islam does have some good influence, then still we say that outside Islam there exists the same good influence, and more of the same and different good influence, even better infuence.

    Which really makes Islam superfluous. and some kind of unnecessary intervention of Allah. And then Islam can be seen as only a HOBBY by Muslims, but not as some unique good way of life.

  35. Jannah says:

    Hi, I'm converted Muslim, I was never strong religiously because Catholicism never made sense to me when I grew up, it was until I was introduced to Islam that all made sense. I just think you are a bit confused about religion and about Arab culture, because none of the things you mention are embraced by Islam, the only way of life that all prophets including Jesus (pbuh) followed. It is sad to hear your story though, I wish you both would have thought about all the implications, my suggestion to you, and not only because of your husband, is research from a good source about Islam, regardless of where your relationship ends up being. 

  36. ksather109 says:

    Dear C-
    I see that I am late to this conversation, with the first comments posted over 62 weeks ago.I am not one to ever comment on posts, but your story touched me deeply as I can relate in a very personal way. I too, met and fell in love with an arab man. I too, met and married him in secret fearing my family's disapproval. I too, was married nearly two years before the hopelessness of my situation came to a head.

    When I first met my husband he seemed to be a dream come true! So handsome, so charming, so worldly. It was such a magical adventure for a small town girl from the midwest. I guess I was dazzled. His family was good and gracious to me (with the exception of one of his brother-in-laws) I was never pressured or asked to convert to Islam. I was told by him and that since I am Christian, I was considered people of the book and should be respected. While I was living with his family, I was introduced to other Christians living in the city. I truly believed I had met the perfect man. I believed he would love, respect and honor me as I did him. I was so eager for our life to begin in USA, but that is when it all changed.

    It started out with little things. Asking my opinion on things and then taking the word of some stranger (male) over mine. Mocking me for my pale skin and blue eyes (things he had once professed to love about me). Slowly, my self esteem and confidence began to crumble. Questioning my whereabouts on night I worked overtime, I actually had to take him to my office to show a time stamp on the software project I was working on before he would believe I had not been out being a "slut". He would lie to me, he would lie about me. He was so unpredictable. One moment he was his "old self" loving and charming, the next moment he was cursing me. then the physical abuse began. I became a nervous wreak. I was constantly walking on egg shells to keep the peace. It began to effect my health.

    Thankfully, one morning I woke and decided this is not the life God had intended for me. As a child of God, I know I am entitled to love and respect, just as God loves me. I filed for divorce on November 1, 2006 and it was final by Nov.12th. When I received the final papers it was as if a tremendous weight had been lifted from me. I am not saying everything was easy and rosey after the divorce. It was not. I took plenty of time to heal and forgive myself. It took even longer to regain my confidence and learn to trust myself again. But it came be done.

    I guess what I am trying to say is, although it will be painful and difficult, you can and will come through the other side a better and happier person. My advice to you is focus on your school, be by yourself and truly learn who you are. Marriage can be a good thing, if the husband is the right person for you. You should both support respect and lift each other up. I wish you luck and strength.

    On a side note, I have noticed many people on this forum making this an issue about the evils of Islam. These posts should focus on assisting a women to leave an abusive marriage and giving her strength. I would remind everyone that where ever you go in this world there are good people and bad people. It makes no difference if the are christian, jews, hindus,muslims black, white or polk-a-dot. Some people just suck. There are also wonderful, good people to be found in every nation and of every creed. As Martin Luther King Jr. once said, "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
    Love God, love yourself and the rest will follow.

  37. Anna says:

    I was in a relationship with a muslim man as well. He is kurdish from Iraq. We met when we both were working for a meat factory in Tx. I fell for him hard. I was only 19 at the time and he was 27. I love that he was older, from adifferent country. His dark thick hair.I put up with alot from him. Just like u he moves to Ohio because here small town theres no good jobs. He promised and swore that we would be together soon. And everytime I understood because i love him. His friends live with him and hes waiting for them to find a place. He doesnt want to bring me in the middle of that. Well its been a year since I havent seen him. Still his friends live there but not as much. I had broke up with him a couple times to see what he wud do. Like fight for me, come and find me? Or do something if i really meant so much to him. He would call me his wife. Saying he wanted kids ine day. And me so happy and day dreaming about that day. Then he would ignore me for a week maybe.even two. And there i wud be begging calling to explain wat was wrong. I would never get an answer. Last summer I had seen on his facebook that he was in California. I was shocked. It was a slap to the face. Why can you take a trip there and not take a trip to come and visit me. I was soo heartbroken. He always just expected for me to be okay. He never physically abused me. I was always on guard tho becauae i also researched many things about muslims and the quran. He did tho emotionly abused me took advantage of the fact that he knew i loved him so much. I didnt go thru as much as you did. I dont think I cud have puttn up with so much. Maybe its cuz ive seen my mother abused by the she loved and my sister as well. I always told myself I wud never let a man disrespect in any way. I still love him and wish the best for him. Not once did he bad mouth me. But i did call him a coward to have the courage and be a man and explain to me all his situations but he always ignored me. I hope you did get a divorce and know that you dont need a man to make u happy. I know how it is how you feel they use their words so nicely and the fact that he was a foreigner attracted me more. I am a christian and i have so much faith that everything will work out for the best.. 

  38. Tricia says:

    Yes I agree that you are right to walk away from this marriage. You're still so young and I wish for you happiness and hopefully a healthy, content relationship in your future.
    May I add though that I as a RC woman has been happilly married to a Sunni Muslim for thirty years. This idea that 'all' Muslim men are deceitful.
    , abusive etc has to stop. We have a daughter who though raised in my faith has fallen in love with a Shi'ite Muslim boy. My husband and I are devastated by the change in her character and the influence he has over her.
    After reading your story I will pray to St Augustine for intervention and trust that our daughter will see the light before he affects the rest of her life

  39. Ali Sina says:

    Change Arab with Muslim, If I were a western woman I would not date a Muslim man. from any country.

  40. GorgeousFemale says:

    I have also dated an Arab man from Iraq/Jordan for two years from 21 years old to 23 years old. I wasn't really in love with him at the beginning but he someone got me to fall deep in love with him about 6 months later of going on dates with him. He was so intelligent, responsible, gentle-man like, generous, and always said the most romantic words to me. It was like he was too perfect especially at such a young age (20 years old), no American young adult man is like that, they don't start becoming like that until they reach 30 years old so I totally fell for this too-good-to-be-true young Arab man. Well two years later, emotional abuse started to happen, he would let his friends sexually harass me and do nothing about it, his friends who he hadn't even been friends with that long, he had been dating me longer, would always be on his friends' sides more than mine, I was shocked, it hurt me terribly. Better yet, at the end of our relationship right before the final break up, he would make fun of me to his classmates/friends about me and it was just total self-destruction/harassment/ I felt so embarassed and so weak and humilated and worthless. There's no reason anyone should do this to you especially your boyfriend or romantic partner. At the beginning he did propose to me, but hearing many negative words from my family and other american natives about the arab men, I thought twice, I loved him so much but I did not have my full trust in him from hearing negative words from the past about them, THANK GOD AND THANK MY FAMILY FOR TELLING ME THE TRUTH ABOUT ARAB MENlAT THE VERY BEGINNING, or else I might have been doomed like the initial writer of this blog. Since our breakup, I have learned to hate arab men. They cannot be trusted. They act so innocent, loving, respecful, too-good at the very beginning, ladies….!!! Listen up, it is so fake. Never trust arab men, they will ruin your inner spirit that once was beautiful and healthy. They will torture you emotionally and possibly even physically. Be warned…

  41. GorgeousFemale says:

    Arab men suck. They seem perfect at the beginning and once you fall deep in love with them and they know it, you are doomed!! That is there whole plan at the beginning, to get you to fall in love with them so once they got you, they take away your soul and kill your inner spirit that was once beautiful and healthy. They destroy you. They abuse you emotionally and physically. Arab men think they are inferior to women which is absurb. You beautiful women out there, take care of yourself, don't let an ignorant Arab man or yet anyone damage you in anyway because no one has the right to do that to anyone. Go get strong, start eating healthy balanced nutrition-rich meals, go work out at the gym including weight-bearing weights, do some yoga, join a jiu jitsu class (there's hot gorgeous good-hearted AMERICAN men there that you can meet 🙂 ) go get happy, strong, and independent, and be good to yourself, respect yourself, and be the gorgeous woman you have always been. You always deserve the better man, and always deserve better. 

  42. BeautifulWoman says:

    Arab men suck. They seem perfect, almost too perfect at the beginning until they get what they want (your devoted love that becomes toxic to yourself) and then once they know that you are in deep love with them, they got you for good into hell. Don't let that happen to you, be a smart woman, love yourself, don't make yourself unhealthy by giving your soul to some asshole arab.

  43. Anton says:

    Per favore aiutatemi! Mia figlia a 16 anni si è innamorata di un Marocchino che come tutti ipocriti islamici si dichiarava innamorato e non praticante. Ma  a distanza di due anni e mezzo trovo mia figlia persa nel fondamentalismo islamico, si è convertita e porta anche Hijab. Abbiamo cercato di svegliarla, ma è talmente manipolata dalla comunità marocchina che è scappata di casa all'ultima anno di liceo per andare a vivere con lui e la sua famiglia. Noi genitori siamo disperati per aver perso così la nostra  unica figlia. Cosa possiamo fare? Come possiamo salvarla dalle paludi dell'slam integralista? Per favore ci dia un suggerimento. 

  44. Dont tell me u lost glasses. its written about hisham bin urwah.

  45. *sneezes* sorry i got flue. hm?

  46. Kameela says:

    I am sad to read these posts abd the story. Not all Muslims are bad. Like Christianity or any other religion we have people who do not do right. This page is full of hate from the woman who wrote it abd the people who respond with hate. Shame on all of you. I am Muslum and proud. I am everything sweet and kind and gentle. Yes there are fanatics out there in all religions. Be careful judging for you will be judged. I love all you. Christian, Jews, Atheist, etc……. I repect your beliefs. My Muslim husband has never beat me. He is so sweet to me and has shown me how beautiful I am on the inside. He is very protective abd I love this for I am very sensitive. Please do not judge people by majority or minority. Take each individual as just that. I wish you to all find peace. STOP fighting please and just love each other faults and all. 

  47. Rajesh says:

    http://www.islaminindia.org/uncategorized/why-did
    It is the accepted tradition that Angel Gabriel communicated the Quran to Muhammad in pure Arabic from God. In other words, God sent down the Quran to Muhammad through Angel Gabriel in Arabic. Actually, when Muhammad first got such an experience, he thought he had been possessed by a ghost and thought of committing suicide! But it was his wife Khadija who convinced him that He had been chosen as a Prophet. This is another clear proof that Islam is not from God. Had God sent an Angel, say Gabriel, to Muhammad to convey to Quran, he would have made Gabriel convey this clearly to Muhammad instead of making Muhammad think that he had been possessed by a demon and driving him to the point of suicide. The very fact that his wife told him that He had become a Prophet and Muhammad himself thought of suicide shows that Muhammad was not chosen as God’s Prophet.

    But let us assume that Angel Gabriel did indeed come to Muhammad, sent down by God to reveal the Quran. The ordinary Meccans, Muhammad’s own contemporaries, were almost unanimous in dismissing his revelations as anything but divine. Barring a handful of followers, not more than 70 or 80 people in 12 years of preaching from AD 610 to AD 622, everyone dismissed Muhammad’s claims of receiving Divine messages. Here, if Angel Gabriel really did visit Muhammad for these 12 years, and he and God saw that people are ridiculing Muhammad and dismissing his claims, Gabriel could have easily shown Himself to all Meccans and revealed the Quran to all of them. Even one paranormal act could have been sufficient in showing that Muhammad received Divine messages from God. But Angel Gabriel showed Himself only to Muhammad and Muhammad dictated the Quran! This clearly shows that there was absolutely nothing done which could not have been done by humans. There is of course, no proof at all that Angel Gabriel visited Muhammad carrying God’s messages. It could be that Muhammad genuinely believed what he felt. But if Gabriel went all the way from God to Muhammad and back, he could easily have revealed the Quran to everyone, instead of Muhammad.

    As we have seen Swami Dayananda Saraswati observe, the author of the Quran was not God, it was not even any learned or intelligent person. It was someone with a very limited knowledge and understanding. One who thought that God resides at a particular location in this Universe and is not Omnipresent, that God needs Angels to carry his messages.

  48. Agracean says:

    Ms narcole1919721, since you dislike such 'slandering' of your lecherous prophet, maybe you'll like to help your pedophile prophet cleared the air here by using some polite words from your conscience to explain clearly why did he want to insert his old linga into that little girl's yoni then? if you have a 9 years old daughter, will you let Muhammad poke her?

  49. Do you think slandering another prophet with impolite words is right? 

  50. Agracean says:

    Ms Kameela, do you think that it's right for a 53 years old prophet to poke a 9 years old little muslima's vagina? How to respect and find peace with such a sickening and shameful prophet?

  51. Sakat says:

    @Kameela
    You need not be so sad ,it would be a needless exercise .No one hate Muslims that is for sure ,but Islam is horrible, especially that mentally sick psychopath Mohammed.Do you denied his marriage to that little girl Ayesha,if no then how could you say this site is full of hate .Ali Sina only highlights the contents of Quran ,sira,hadhits etc.If there is no substance in Sina's claim ,then you or any other  Muslim can come up with authentic documents refuting Sina's claims. This site is based on democratic set up and values ,so everyone has equal right   for debate/discussion/dialogue's.It is very nice of you ,that you respect others belief ,but does   your holy book   preaches so ,if yes ,then either you are not Muslim or you have not read your holly book  or you will be guilty of blasphemy.
    Your holly book say the earth is flat ,it is the center of the universe ,sun circumscribing the earth ,moon is above the stars,sun sets in the muddy water do you belief all these things ,if not ,then Allah is false (he is not having the basic knowledge of his creation). Islam say,s God is formless ,then who stay's in Mecca and why Muslims go there . If Islam says  idolatry is blasphemy ,then what that black stone is  doing in Kaba . Why Muslims are terrorizing the world ,your people killed 5000 innocent people (9/11) .Your people destroyed sacred symbols of others belief (Bamiyan Buddha's ).Your people blast bombs at other peoples sacred places (Bomb blast in  Mahabhodhi Temple) .Every infidels living in their respective  countries  are peaceful and making progress except the countries inhabited by Muslims .Lastly the Muslim man after his death will have 72 virgin woman and  20 boys (display of sick mentality of mad Mohammed) in heaven ; what about a religious Muslim woman ?what she will get after her death ?,in heaven .Islam say 99% woman will go to hell,then what logic operates behind  claiming " PROUD TO BE A MUSLIM'?. Don't believe any thing  blindly ,this is 21st century , believe your mind not your heart. 

  52. Sakat says:

    @ Kameela
    Madam, i am happy to engage you for discussion on lot of words you have spelled out here, in continuation of this thread ,i beg you for little time to response/reply on my behalf,thanks a lot.

  53. Kameela says:

    I am sad to read these posts abd the story. Not all Muslims are bad. Like Christianity or any other religion we have people who do not do right. This page is full of hate from the woman who wrote it abd the people who respond with hate. Shame on all of you. I am Muslum and proud. I am everything sweet and kind and gentle. Yes there are fanatics out there in all religions. Be careful judging for you will be judged. I love all you. Christian, Jews, Atheist, etc……. I repect your beliefs. My Muslim husband has never beat me. He is so sweet to me and has shown me how beautiful I am on the inside. He is very protective abd I love this for I am very sensitive. Please do not judge people by majority or minority. Take each individual as just that. I wish you to all find peace. STOP fighting please and just love each other faults and all. 

  54. mohammed says:

    The problem is you people need to know how to deal with unseen attacks your soul go thru , ISLAM is a solution to humanity just because of bad experience we suffered in Muslims hand that doesnt make us blame Islam or see wrong in Islam , the only power who shows us dreams and false signs is the power of devil , taking you away from the path of monotheism to a path of saints and ascribing partner to your maker . Fight your devil so GOD IS JUST , he showed you Islam but you have to fight to stay firm to be a muslim its not easy to  go to paradise as Christian think.

  55. iqbal says:

    HI  Assalamu alaikum,  this is best wors of Islam May peace be upon u. Rather thangood morning etc..first u must know tht is Islam means,who is jesus pbuh. Was he god or messenger of God ,u watch deen show , and watch some americans how they convert to islam ,  only the way for paradisr whixh accepted by God is Islam it means submitting will to god

  56. John says:

    I am Catholic, my wife is too. We raised our children in our religion. They do not practice much today. If my daughter was in your shoes, I would do everything I could to help her out. I do not believe in the concept of, "you made your bed now you have to lie in it." We all make mistakes. We are human. Jesus taught us in the Our Father, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those against us." That means if we are not willing to forgive those who have sinned against us, to forgive those who hurt us, or forgive those who have made mistakes, then we cannot expect God to forgive us." I think you should seem help from the closest Catholic. Butch that you feel most comfortable with. Regardless of how we were all raised, not Ll priests and churches are the same. Some are not as welcoming or forgiving as others.

  57. Darrion says:

    This sounds more to me like the problem with your relationship isn't necessarily that he's Muslim and you're not. The problem seems to be that you both went in to the relationship thinking that you could change the other person. You weren't honest with yourself from the beginning. 

    I'm currently dating a Muslim Man, (i have been dating him for a year now). He's the most wonderful man I've ever met. I'm sorry that these things have happened to you, but i feel compelled to tell you and everyone out there that, really, this isn't normal. I feel like, on the Internet, we only see the really incredibly bad stories, because they are the ones that are dramatic enough to get everyone's attention. 

    I've recently started a blog about dating a Muslim man, and it takes a slightly different tone than the one in the letter. I think being in a relationship with someone from a completely different background requires a lot of understanding and compassion, but I really think it is not a lost cause. 

    My blog is 
    http://travelinglightwithlove.blogspot.com/

    But, i think you should consider divorcing your husband. No woman deserves to be treated like they don't matter, especially by their husbands. 

    I really do wish you all of the luck in the world 

  58. aminthemystic says:

    1. Why would a God need to sacrifice himself? He can simply forgive others?

    2. According to Bible, when he was to be crucified, his last words were something like:
    "My father, why have you forsaken me"

    3. The Bible you hold true is not the Bible – which early Christians had . . . due to canonization – the books which early Christians held to be true are no longer part of it. So what Bible?

  59. Trish says:

    Start reading the Holy Bible and get to know the real Jesus Christ, the One and Only True God who came to earth adn took on the form of a man to sacrafice Himself for our trangressions so that we have eternal life. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life". Nothing is too difficult for the Lord God Creator of Heaven and Earth. He can remove the veil off your husband's eyes and open is heart to know the real Jesus Christ. Just pray to the Lord Jesus and ask for God to reveal Himself to both you and your husband. Remember there is no other who can intercede for our sins but Jesus alone who bore the sins of the world.No "saints", no statutes and not Mary (Miriam) can be prayed to only the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

  60. Anonymous says:

    *religion.

  61. Anonymous says:

    You sound like a fruit, this poor woman is suffering from domestic violence and you defend her attacker. I hope C leaves her guy, grow up Zohaib the world doesn't revolve around religio.

  62. Zohaib says:

    To the girl named C,

    I would like to tell you I am a muslim guy. All the posts that have been written against Islam are purely invalid. ISLAM never ever talks about partiality. It is straightforward and to the point. All men and women are equal. Imagine, someone insulting another religion is like throwing stones on a glass house knowing that their house is itself made of glass. 
    Coming to your problem, remember one thing that NO HUMAN is perfect whether be a Muslim, Christian, Jews or from any other faith. If one tries to read the QURAN in Islam, he/she would fine all the answers to his/her doubts. If women were not considered equal to men then why would QURAN dedicate an ENTIRE CHAPTER on the importance of WOMEN? If people did read QURAN, it talks about CHRISTIANITY (LIFE OF JESUS and the VIRGIN MARY), JEWS ( LIFE OF MOSES) and HINDUS (WORSHIPPING IDOLS). 
    ISLAM was/is/will NEVER be wrong. Yes, MUSLIMS can/will be wrong but don't judge the FAITH by the people. READ THE QURAN to find out the truth. The reason why many MUSLIM MEN/WOMEN fall for the WESTERN CULTURE is because of LUST. They don't practice their faith and they just USE the name of JESUS to escape the faith. All I have heard from the WESTERNERS is that JESUS DIED for our SINS. really? People, in today's world, commit adultery and do stuff which is not right on a day to day basis and talk about JESUS dying for YOUR SINS? Example: Imagine, one driving over the speed limit and when pulled over by a cop would say, I am sorry, please send the TICKET to JESUS coz he DIED for my sin(speeding). That's crazy. 
    Does anyone know that Moses talked about the coming of Jesus in the TORAH and Jesus talked about the coming of Mohammad?
    Well, people who are against ISLAM/MUSLIMS should take a break from their brainwashed minds and go to a good ISLAMIC CENTER and get a copy of the QURAN and not from any ISLAM HATER who carries a WRONG COPY OF THE QURAN to misguide the ALREADY MISGUIDED people. 
    I, humbly, request all the NON_MUSLIMS and those who are inflicting pain because of their MUSLIM SPOUSES to sit back, go to a proper ISLAMIC CENTER where they have seperate sections for MEN and WOMEN to increase their knowledge about ISLAM to get all the right answers to their questions. One such sight I know where NON-MUSLIMS whole heartedly revert to ISLAM is called "whyislam.org". Go there and talk to the scholar who can give you a free copy of the translation of the QURAN and clarify almost all your doubts. 

    PEACE BE TO ALL ESPECIALLY TO THOSE WHO HATE THE FAITH & TO THOSE WHO ARE SKEPTICAL of the FAITH.

  63. Agracean says:

    Grow up, Maria!

  64. Ali Sina says:

    @Maria,

    Are you perfect? You who call a person who explained her ordeals a “whore”? Is this the sign of perfection? You are so ready to throw the first stone, but are you yourself sin free? Yes Islam is evil. The best proof that Islam is evil is you. Look what Islam has done to you. It has made you a vile person. Ye shall recognize them by their fruits, and if you and your fellow Muslims are the fruits of Islam then it is clear that Islam is a rotten tree.

  65. Maria says:

    All I can say that you have never been true to your religion in the first place you deceived your parents you lied you went against your own roman Catholic religion so before you start pointing the finger at islam and muslims take a good look at your self because your far from perfect.  This is not in reply to nib head islamaphobe vijay but in answer to the whore who wrote this pathetic blog

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  70. Momo says:

    Ali Sina offers $50,000 reward to anyone who can prove him wrong.

    So funny and coward. …

    If he really speaks the truth and ready to maintain the truth, why only offer $50.000? why not $5000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000? If he's true, he will never be wrong.

    this means that he's afraid that if he is really right or not. He's still doubt about his simple logic
    And this means that his truth can only be valued $50.000.

    I offer you $50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, if you can prove that 2 x 2 is not 4.

    Anyone?

  71. Sakat says:

    @Slave of Prophete
    You are already lost, don't bark again. No one ( a sane man/woman think of marring a Muslim even in her/his dream )think to become Muslim take note of this . You are fit to become slave to this pedophile Mohammed and not to the author of your own destiny . Don't let your children ,follow you ,let them choose their own life. This is the era of science,allow your son/daughter to hug science/modernity not this thug ,pedophile , road robber ,Taliban ,MAD MOHAMMED.

  72. Slave of Prophet says:

    @Abby
    Marriage between Muslim man and non-Muslim woman is not valid in Islam. As per Islam woman will not be treated as if she is non-Muslim. To marry with Muslim man she need to change / convert into Islam.

  73. Agracean says:

    Dear C and Abby, it's time to dump all these braindead zombies into the rubbish bin and start life afresh. Can't you gals see that there are so many faithfreedom fish swimming in the deep blue sea beneath and there are also so many faithfreedom birds flying in the deep blue sky above? So, don't lose heart and be wise the next time round. Wish you gals all the very best in finding a good fish or bird. :*

  74. Abby says:

    I started a relationship with a Muslim gentleman. We lived together for one year.Then a member of his family came to visit him, and he changed overnight. I know how C girl feels. I can not say anything but good things about this man that I loved so much. However, at the end of our relationship, he revealed himself not just changing his attitude towards me during the last days, he was not able to confront me either. He tried to makes me feel I am the one who failed. I did not allow to myself in believe on a cheap statement. Actions are powerful over words. He showed me how weak he really was. I need a man in my life not a puppet. I gave him my love and commitment and I will never regret about that. Bur I learned. It was a lesson for me. Dear C. forget about this man. Love yourself, do not keep any hopes. Don't ask yourself if this man was bad or good, don't ask yourself if he loved you or not. Just walk away from him. Let his friend or family to look for a wife for him. You are lucky to decide who wants or not in your life. You deserve be happy.

  75. Demsci says:

    "There are good and bad in all religions and all walks of life."

    OK. But believing so and stopping there does not answer the questions: "What influence does Islam have?" "On what" ? And: Is it good, bad or neutral to that?

    Islam exists and is very widespread, and it is highly unsatisfactory, even for Muslims, to stop thinking and pretend it has NO influence, is strictly neutral. If it has no influence it has no good influence either. And then Islam should ALSO NOT BE JUDGED by all those Muslims who do good deeds and live good moral lives.

    I think Islam is in many ways contradicting modern democratic laws, customs, values and so it has very bad influence on them and those people who adhere to them and that Islam is not neutral at all.

    And terroristic and criminal Muslims very often openly and clearly adhere to Islamic laws, customs and values that are divine according to them en that are in direct opposition to democratic modern ones. And they are often shown to want to practice and promote the Islamic ones and they despise the democratic modern ones.

    I think that the Islam that is interpreted like that, that that is a major factor for such malevolence towards the West (democratic modern societies).

    And Muslims should at least admit that huge numbers of them want different laws, customs, values and societies than those of the West. And that that motivates a lot of them to do crimes in Western eyes. Muslims should not deny or ignore it all the time, when their own fellow Muslims so often confirm the suspicions of the democratic, modern people.

  76. I-HATE-ISLAM says:

    Perfectly captured,Chuck. They prey on the innocent and hapless several times a day.

  77. chuck says:

    @I-HATE-ISLAM,
    //They pray five times a day/
    Didn't you mean "They prey five times a day" ? 🙂

  78. BreakyourBS says:

    @ Ex-Christian
    May 10, Yet another Muslim sex slavery gang were jailed in UK for prostituting teenage British girls.

    Are you still high on ganja/opium to have such "beautiful dreams" ?

  79. I-HATE-ISLAM says:

    You really are pathetic. By saying that those who commit these crimes are "so-called Christians", you have admitted that they, in fact, have gone against the teachings of the Christian faith which calls for loving one's neighbor as one's self and a display of an endless capacity to forgive. Zakat has very ably responded to your misguided notion. I have very little to add. But be honest enough to look at the statistics and admit that when it comes to violence and atrocities all those perpetrated by non muhammadans come into an insignificant fraction of what muhammadans do with all pleasure. Since 9/11, there have been about 21,000 acts of violence by muhammadans. How many are attributed to all others combined? In 2010 a list of about 146 terrorist groups was published. 92 are muhammadan and only 10 are Christian with Marxists accounting for 15. How do the figures compare? This year alone more than 2000 people have been mutilated in Pakistan by muhammadan terrorist groups. Which other group has killed even one person there? About 98% of civilians killed in Iraq have died at the hands of muslims. Where have non muslims done that? In my country, Nigeria, boko haram has embarked on a frenzied orgy of indiscriminate extermination of whole populations, particularly Christians. There has been no Christian response to all of that insanity. Muhammadans are responsible for devastating wars in Somalia, Sudan, Mali etc. Some of these wars have gone on for decades now. Can you point to a Christian equivalent of these 'holy' wars?
    There is always a rush by muhammadans to use Timothy McVeigh and Anders Breivik as examples of 'christian terrorists'. But they find it convenient to forget that McVeigh claimed to be an agnostic who believed in a God. No Christian believes in 'a god'. Every Christian believes in one God; not many. Breivik says he is a 'cultural christian' who prayed once in his life.
    Do muhammadan terrorists claim to be agnostic or cultural muslims? They pray five times a day, perform the hajj and observe other islamic rituals. These terrorists quote the quran to justify their actions and refer to the examples of Muhammad as the basis of what they do. Those who are familiar with the quran and the sunna have no problems with the actions of the terrorists as they cannot deny those claims. Only hypocrites pretend to condemn them while the nitwits, who are in the minutest minority, argue that the terrorists are not muhammadans. Ex-Christian, now New-Terrorist, choose which of these groups you belong to.You should find it intriguing that an ex-muhammadan eschews violence; whereas a convert to islam embraces it. Unarguably, the difference, as we say in my country, is quite clear.

  80. Sakat says:

    The major difference that, the crime perpetrated by infidels and that by Muslim is that ,in case of christian,s ,Jews,Hindus,Buddhist etc,their holy book do not say to commit such crimes or sanctify crime against infidels or lure with 72 damsels in paradise for violence against non-believers.Actually those who commit crime of killing,rape and other kind of violence in the name of Allah and Mohammed are true Muslims as per the diktat of Quaran.For that matter you are considered as an apostate ,if you fail to follow Zokhar and Tamerlane (the duo of Boston Bombings).

  81. Ex-Christian says:

    Some who profess to be Muslim kill, rape, exhibit acts of violence etc – all actions which are haram. These individuals are not representative of Islam and unfortunately paint a bad picture for Islam. But Islam should not be judged by the deeds of these so-called Muslims. True Islam is pure, honest and good.

    Many forget or refuse to acknowledge the crimes – murder, rape, terrorism, violence etc – committed on a daily basis by so-called Christians. The only difference is that they are never referred to as "Christian terrorists" or "Christian extremists" in the media. Same applies to the Jews, Hindus, atheists etc. This unfairness, this biased attitude, is a major factor for such malevolence towards the West.

    There are good and bad in all religions and all walks of life.

  82. lsrr says:

    Dear C.,
    I'm touched by your message, as I feel I can relate to your story in many ways.
    Honestly, from my own experience, religion is part of one's culture, and in the end quite mixed up with culture. Asking / Expecting someone to leave their religion / convert, is like asking someone to give up part of their identity, especially if they're born in that religious culture.
    The most important thing I'd like for you to remember is: There's no reason that any human being, including you, is less worthy of love and happiness than anyone else. Try to listen to you inner dialogue and how you treat yourself.
    If you're telling yourself anything less than, "you're a wonderful woman worthy of love, peace and happiness," then you're simply conditioned by false beliefs about who you really are.
    You have the power to chose the direction you take. You don't have to be stuck in depression; that's a choice you make.

    You know deep inside if this man is right for you or not. If there is doubt, just let him go, and I urge you to do so before you have children, because then it gets VERY complicated with different belief and value systems (again, talking from my own experience).
    He'll figure out things on his own, just as you'll do. Don't worry about him if you leave him, worry about your well-being.

    About islam, I'm not one to bash the spiritual faith, but I disapprove with the way some muslims conceive the message. Islam is a spiritual way of life, like every faith is meant to be. It's meant to teach us how to get closer to God. Unfortunately, like most religions, people use the religion as a way to have certainty and security in their lives, a sense of superiority and righteousness. All ego. And then they separate themselves from others, just because they have a different guru. Which is completely against the true aim of islam, meant to unite people.
    In fact, the aim of all spiritual teachings to to unite us all in our Creator's power I believe.
    Anyway, looking as Islam from that perspective, I have learned that it teaches a lot of wisdom for a peaceful life.
    Islam is not the problem; the ignorant and shallow people among the muslim population are the problem.

    To conclude C., if you want to have children, have them with someone you are sure will share the same values as you raising them.
    And again, most importantly, remember that no one has the power to make you less worthy than God truly made you to be. No one can take your power (unless you gave it away). There's absolutely no reason you should treat yourself with less love than you would treat anyone else you dearly love.
    Cultivate foremost your relationship with God, then with yourself, and only then can you truly love another….
    warm blessings, L

  83. I-HATE-ISLAM says:

    Ali, you are quite right. That is why muhammadan countries hardly contribute to disaster relief efforts particularly when it involves non muhammadan communities.

  84. Amir Azziz says:

    FACT There a Over TWELVE MILLION AFRICAN SLAVES in Saudi Arabia,Home of ISLAM, Right NOW, Keeping Middle Class SAUDI Homes Running Smoothly at the end of a BULL WHIP.
    ISLAM is LIES,Taquiyya and Kitman, Lust, Racism, Thievery, Occupation,Apartheid,Murder,FILTH!!!!!!

  85. Ali Ghoshasaan says:

    There are 493 lines in the Queran Against Non-Muslims and
    NOT ONE line recommending kindness, cooperation or respect toward Non-Muslims.

  86. I-HATE-ISLAM says:

    @"-AND IT IS RISING FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL MANKIND". You have lost sight of the fact that in islam the only humanity known is 'the house of islam'. Any body outside of this belongs to the house of war who is hated as the vilest creature in the sight of allah and is to be plundered until he /she confesses that there is no god but allah. The sort of good you are talking about is what took happened in Boston a few days back. You cannot refer to those young men as uneducated and not being properly exposed to modernity. All the terrorists who took part in the New York,Madrid and London bombings did not come from the back water of the society. They were well educated with the requisite exposure. The problem is not the perpetrators for they can be reformed. The problem is a cruel creed that launches them on the path of evil.
    You talk about the so-called muslim contributions in Spain. What happened to the civilization which existed there before the muhammadan invasion? When the muslims entered Egypt in 640, the richest library in the then world, with between 400,000 and 700,000 rare manuscripts, was burnt because Umar said that they would either be against islam and blasphemous or for islam and superfluous. That act of vandalism robbed the world of the rich history and scientific achievements of the ancient period.
    It was not every part of the world that was deficient in learning as the Arabian desert of the 7th century.
    It is dead wrong to consider the muslim world as being poor with the vast resources at its disposal. The problem is with the misplacement of priorities. While others think of making the world a better place for all of mankind, the muslims focus on destruction except it coincides with their values.
    Talking about this site being against islam, I think that the mere fact that your comment has been posted here disproves that allegation. Every body is allowed to air his/her views. I have had the most difficult time posting a comment on an islamic website because I expressed contrary views. Intolerance is in the DNA of mhammadanism and muhammadans.

  87. Amy says:

    "This thread is all about hatred against Muslims. Let me tell you some history. Muslims have their ups and downs, and they have been down in the last few centuries. now they are poor and destitute, corrupt and far away from the teaching of their own beautiful religion. Some Muslims have made the image of Islam even worse by burning churches and by doing many other useless and dangerous deeds. They are doing this because they are uneducated. They are not properly exposed to modernity.

    But to my relief, I have seen Christian writings dated many hundred years ago admiring the lifestyles of Muslims in Spain and instructed Christian young people to emulate them. To my happiness as well, I have seen an increasing number of young dedicated Muslims who are dedicating their lives to the good of others regardless of their religious affiliation. These young people are the hope of Muslims. It is quite reassuring to me that these young people will be the ones who save the world while upholding the tenets of Islam and remain loyal to their Islamic identity. Let me tell everybody in this forum that Islam is rising, and it is rising for the benefit of all mankind."

    Your religion isn't good to women. I am not a fan of it, because it doesn't support my rights. Islam needs to learn tolerance for other religions too.

  88. JT Connolly says:

    Please get yourself out of this marriage. You need a clean break. I know this hurts you, but please listen to us. Most people posting do it because we care about you. Please move on, find a nice Christian man that supports your dreams. In Islam the mans dreams comes first. If this man cared about you he would have defended you from his family or friends. This man isn't worthy of you, find one that is.

    When it comes to kids, choose their father is the biggest decision you will make. If you have kids your problems will get bigger. He wants his kids to grow up muslims, you want christian kids. If the kids are girls then the problems will be worst. Islam isn't great to girls. Also, if he is unhappy he can just steal your kids and bring them to his home country. This happens a lot.

    NEVER LET GO OF YOUR DREAMS!! If you want to be a doctor don't let a man or husband get in the way. Please never sacrifice them.

  89. betty says:

    my husband is muslim and i'am american … i live in tunisia for a year. i'am home sick but i have problems with their culture and all. if you are marry to a muslim husband and just want to talk .. i would like that. i have facebook. my name is Betty Mokni … you also can fine me under Betty Biederstadt. it would be nice to fine other people that understands what i'm going through…. i just get lonely and it would be nice to find a friend i can talk too.

  90. infidel/kafir says:

    Moslem man : You have a lot of work to do in ISLAMIC countries and with Moslems/ Moslemahs. Please go and change the regimes. Make them humanistic , with values of kindness, compassion, freedom, liberty, democracy, All religions as equal, equal justice to all, peace ,love , . First , see that Theocratic , fascist regimes of ISLAM are dismantled and in their place, modern , peace,freedom loving, equality promoting. democracy as the basis , equal laws for all, equal rights to all citizens . I will trust you when you fight for all these human values, human rights. There is no idea of minority in ISLAM. Just kill or subjugate and make slaves of all unbelievers and as 4th class citizens. You know in ISLAMIC countries, unbelievers are treated as slaves and lives in fear. Abolish all Huddooed ISLAMIC barbarism. DOnt lie and dont be dishonest and dont deceive. SHow us your action. and the result in ISLAMIC countries.

  91. infidel/kafir says:

    Moslem man : Let me tell you are a savvy TAQIYYA merchant . TAQIYYA, MUBAHILA, DAR UL ISLAM , DAR UL Harb , Fatwas, JIHADS< apostacy, DHIMMI < Mushriks,murtads – just to mention only few ideas of ISLAM/Moslems are uniquely evil, cruel,wicked. You are not honest and you are without any conscience. You are without any truth,facts. Everybody condemns the few violent instances in US and they are declared as criminals and law applies to them. No sympathy. In the case of ISLAM , it is all ( criminality,cruelty,wickedness, ill will, jealousy) are all instigated by ISLAMIC teachings,MO, ALLAH. No human being will be a good person if he/she accepts ISLAM and practices ISLAM . Dont mislead gullible people with your falsehoods. Look at any ISLAMIC country, any ISLAMIC regime, and ISLAMIC culture, ISLAMIC society. How and what do they treat unbelievers ? Why to declare a country as ISLAMIC ? to persecute, to torment and kill unbelievers, using ISLAMIC sharia, to terrorize nonmoslems. ALL this cruelty, all this savagery, all this killings, all the discriminations IN ISLAM gives you peace !!!! You are happy !!! This is because you are a MOSLEM follower of that monster MO . I tell you, you will not have a peaceful end . ISLAM is false and Mo was a demon. What aspect of Mo s actions, character do you want to follow ? Can you have good conscience if you follow MO and his sunna and , QQUURRAAN >

  92. infidel/kafir says:

    Oye Moslem man : First go and read SIRA< HADIS and QQURRAAN . Know the ISLAMIC history. Know the ISLAMIC tenets. ISLAM is a copied version of christianity ,judaism, and preislamic ARABIAN folk lore. ISLAM is full of hatred, ill will, animosity and violence against unbelievers. There is nothing original in ISLAM. No good human being should be a moslem. Tell us what aspect of Mo, you like and follow. You are not talking or discussing that waht is written IN QQUURRAN, HADIS or SIRA. You are telling your own TAQIYYA application. ISLAM is based on discrimination and intolerance, ill will against all nonmoslems. You know that. Only in ISLAM, If you chose to leave ISLAM , you are killed !!! In ISLAM slavery is practiced . ISLAM is fear of grave and dread of hell fire !!! ISLAMIC God and Mo are real monsters. vengeful, cruel and wicked !! You are ignorant of other faiths.

  93. infidel/kafir says:

    Your world renowned ISLAMIC scholars are BOZOs and buffoons !!
    Do you call them as scholars ? Whatever they say is scholar to You !!!
    First of all , all this is a farce . Dont you understand any thing in QQUURRAAN, which says everything is clear, understandable and easy !!! What is there in QQUURRAAN or SIRA or HADIS that you dont understand ? It is all confused , incoherent mumbo- jumbo, filled with cruelty, evil, wicked, perverse ,poisonous tenets of ISLAM .

  94. Mpera says:

    To believe in ones own regional god is not a crime gods such as ishwar .god.mungu.alla and many others.problem uccurs when one regional god forcce itself to other regions

  95. aminthemystic says:

    "I know very well how muslim are. "

    "Of course there are some good people (my friends & neighbours) but I considered that they are "bad" muslims."

    – –

    You use phrases that other people claiming to be ex-Muslim use.

    Hence, you are probabaly one person – posting under different names. And very likely NEVER been a Muslim – at all.

  96. mel says:

    Yes. It is. Because according to the quran, drinking wine in heaven does not make u drunk. But that's what muslims believe ofcoz. U people r just gonna come up with something to contradict me after this. Well, not a surprise when you deal with people who dont believe n refuse to. May god gives hidayah to all of you.amin.

  97. Absurd_Religion says:

    Dear C,
    I was born & raised in muslim country. You may say that I've been live in Muslim country all my life & how I envy you & other who lives in western country. I know very well how muslim are. Trust me. Of course there are some good people (my friends & neighbours) but I considered that they are "bad" muslims. Good people are "bad" muslims & Bad people are "good" muslims. I hope you get the meaning. Sorry for my poor english. I can't describe it with my short skill of english writing. Tell your friend, spread the words. You can also see how sick they are from the threads they've posted here in this blog. What thewho said was right. KICK HIM OUT OF STATES! and try to stop islamisation on you country.

    Best wishes,

    NP

  98. Cookson says:

    Good, keep it that way and wait till you meet Mohammad in hell

  99. Cookson says:

    @Ali – another imbecile who never read the Quran & The Sunnah. All what Dr Ali Sina (keep up the good work Dr.) is doing is writing them down so that moron like you read your own najis

  100. Cookson says:

    @Zitouni – you are an obvious example of a moron who never read his own Quran & Sunnah

  101. Cookson says:

    Hmmm that perhaps explain why the GDP of 52 Muslims countries is only equal to that of Spain hahahaha

  102. Cookson says:

    If Muslims are clever, perhaps you could explain why 1% of the population in Indonesia (Chinese)
    control 90% of the economy?

  103. Cookson says:

    Just because Muslims, Allah and Mohammad are the best in deceiving people, does not mean Dr Ali Sina will do the same.

    Wake up you dimwitted Muslims

  104. Cookson says:

    There is no such thing as intelligent Muslims.
    You of all people should know that

  105. don brondol says:

    You are right!, but how this can happen in my country Indonesia or Egypt?, which we as non moslem also natives in these countries. Anyway, we non moslem Indonesians now fight back! Too long this cursed belief has made home in my country. As Indonesia although the majority is labeled as moslem, but most of them still hold the golden rules as human being and traditional values. Now some of them have started to change into another being, Indonesian moslem becoming Arab moslem. Thanks to internet and your website, we do have a solid weapon to fight back!

  106. severus snape says:

    my god! is this what is truly said in quran by the prophet?
    how sick!!

  107. haroon says:

    hahaah what a piece of shitt acting like a dirty dog who has his tail wounded 🙂

  108. Dr M says:

    Dear Ms C,
    The rational course of events would be to file for divorce.
    If med school is your cup of tea, go for it. The quantum of work in med school is great enough to keep your mind off all other things.
    The beauty of modern professional education is that the travails we undergo while at it mold our personalities and we emerge mentally stronger. Think of this experience of yours as bitter medicine, and move on in life.
    This is a mortal would. It will heal with time. If you continue to lose your self-respect by being with this man, there will come a time when you will not be able to look at yourself in the mirror. Each one of us, married or not, ultimately has to make peace with oneself, and that is the final chapter in our lives. Make a wise decision and ensure that that peace is guaranteed to you.
    I am a doctor, happily married, and still pursing my education. I have been blessed with a wonderful child. and the innocence and promise of hope that I see in him makes my heart bleed with joy.
    This happiness is due to everyone. If you cannot see this future with this man, please leave him at once. Make a career, become mentally strong, and I am sure you will find enough sane men in this world to appreciate a mistake and overlook it.
    Regards,
    Dr M

  109. FreeThinker says:

    Terrible :(.. .I can't understand that habit of marrying cousins. It is forbidden in several US states. Why didn't your parents arrange someone else for you? Marrying a cousin has its risks, and it gets worse as generation after generation marries among cousins. Babies have a high chance of being born with birth defects. My friend has a serious visual impairment, and so do 3 of his 4 siblings.

  110. Moose says:

    I was forced to marry my first cousin (I'm 21 and she's 15) this past summer in Bangladesh. I couldn't say no because honor killings have happened before in my extended family and Bangladeshi marriage law says that if you refuse to get married, your parents can exchange marriage vows on your behalf and you are still legally bound.

  111. Moose says:

    I was forced to marry my first cousin (I'm 21 and she's 15) this past summer in Bangladesh. I couldn't say no because honor killings have happened before in my extended family and Bangladeshi marriage law says that if you refuse to get married, your parents can exchange marriage vows on your behalf and you are still legally bound.

    I can understand what you're going through right now, Calabrian girl. It's extremely difficult to pull yourself out of abusive relationships. I can't make myself break away from my parents at all, and now I have a 15 year old girl who thinks having sex is a crime against nature and constantly belittles me for not blindly following her faith, and insists that if I don't listen to her I will burn in hell for all eternity.

  112. jaysonrex says:

    Muslims are not stupid but merely cowards. This is why they are fated to lose the War of Civilizations. On the battlefield they prefer to run or surrender. This is what makes them different from all other people on earth. And they prefer to commit suicide rather than face life and work hard to improve their miserable lot. All in all a completely retarded sub-humans that never contributed with anything, except lies, to the progress of humanity. In one word, GARBAGE.

  113. vijay says:

    I am just reporting this thing. Is it OK to have wine in Paradise ? What wine is which is wine of Paradise ?

  114. mel says:

    So whose side r u on? The rapists? 'Rapists were drunk' – does that mean they had a right to do that to the girl and not be punish for it? Btw this is also a classic example of why allah swt forbids alcohol.

  115. mel says:

    Just for ur info… smoking cigarettes have been proven to be harmful and so many fatwas have made it haram in islam.. i feel sorry that u jad to end up with the group of arabs who thinks only best of themselves. I am a devoted muslim and personally i dont like that side of these people too. It is not at all what the quran and prophet muhammad taught his ummah. However i should remind u that not al muslims are arabs and not all arabs are muslims. What u r going through here is a social stigma which doesnt happen in my country. Ur husband is clearly obsessed with this man whom i would call a hypocrite. His actions do not portray those of a real muslim man. But in the end religion is a choice. U can act like u believe in islam infront of ur husband but god knows that u had never believed in it and hence if u had never believed in it then u were never a muslim. Stop blaming islam because u had gotten married to the wrong man. There are bad men all over the world and they need not be muslim to be bad.

  116. sigh singh says:

    Dear Mus Lim man. I am incline to believe that you have a good humble heart and you are making every effort, and through your efforts you would to see the change in thoughts and ideas of kafirs in their pre conceived ideas of Is lam. It is a noble notion on your part and your gestures on “the good of Is Lam” that which you do on behalf of your religious beliefs is to make kafirs understand the {or, your} religion.
    Here’s what, you don’t really know much, about the real and actual actions and thoughts, of the religious {and i don’t mean not political} IS Lam leaders of 2 South East Asian nations. I say this, to show not weakness of the average Mus Lims in my region but their enthusiastic embracement of new Fat U Wa laws set overnight by their religious leaders on the wishing of Merry or Happy Xmas to Christians by Mus Lims.
    Allow me to digress a moment before I point out to you the fearful feelings of kafirs in these 2 nations, concerning Mus Lims wishing Christians “Merry Christmas” during or around the Christmas period.
    For once, you almost had a “Gentile”” heart and soul or you were trying to portrait a Christian life when you made this statement, listed below:
    “The Prophet said that Muslims should be good to their neighbors. I have a Christian neighbor, and a few days ago I wished him a happy christmas. I hope you agree with me that wishing a merry christmas to a Christian neighbor is a good thing to do. Am I obeying or disobeying the Prophet?
    Mr.J Stillwaters, is a scholar and a gentleman in all his writings to you and I am hoping to emulate his gentleness, sadly, I am not a Christian, as he is, and I as a Kafir, I’m licensed to be rude to all Mus Lims over the overnight laws set in motions by the learned Is lamic leaders over wishing humans on 24th or the 25th of December- Merry Christmas as Haram.
    Mr M.Man, you don’t get to choose to override one or two sets of your messenger’s laws “willy nilly” and proclaim to be a gentle and a good Mus Lim. Allow me to confirm your good deed action When you DID that wishing statement to your Christian neighbour, you automatically become me, you became a kafir just like me. This according to the Fat U Wa issued in our country by the elected leaders and guardians of Is lam.
    I am positive you are a learned a wise person. I “think” you and most of MO’s believers, secretly wish they were Christians or someone else when you read and see the atrocity committed by the ravage mis guide Mus Lims in your country and elsewhere on this God’s green earth. Please note we don’t take over embassies or burnt public properties or go on a rampage of destructions over a drawing or burning of a nonsensical book, heck we prefer to go about our ways and laugh it off in a bar or go gambling or visit whore houses or play chess or go swimming in our tight fitting shorts and tiny bikinis and we are not even Europeans for God Sake, we are fricking Asians. Lol!

  117. sigh singh says:

    I am reminded of a short american comedian with a "puffed up funny face, I reckon he was only popular for his one "liners". I could be wrong, but i think he was named or called dangerfield.

    had absolutely no substances what so ever. He was boring and ugly too.

  118. sigh singh says:

    Dear Sanatan.

    Thank you for your eye opening article.

    I must say { like the lyrics in the song} I can see clearly now.

    Your article is simple yet true. Poor, poor poor Mother Teressa, whom the whole paid tributes for her deeds is not reconized simply because she choose Christ as her Saviour and devoted her entire life serving humans. I think {no, wait, I don't think, instead, I rather believe in the GOD of Mother Teressa and hope to be accepted by her GOD THEN to blindly believe in some idiot whose deeds is war mongering in some god forsaken desert and whose "Ju-ba' was constantly stained with fresh and dried up sperm.

    I cannot see the logic in believing some mis guided mad person who is lambasted through a stupid idiotic low grade difficult to comprehend {unless you're an idiotic camel raiding towel wearing lunatic of a personality. Phew!

    Bo lo! Kab ker re ga Raj, Khalsa?

  119. Sigh Singh says:

    Young Christian told to emulate the lifestyles of those who ruled over them in Spain? I strongly doubt your statement is at all true.

    Its’ almost good to read your article yet it is written for the younger ignorant muslims to emulate the good deeds of humanity by the European man and woman. But I feel that the Christians Folks from America and most part of the European Christian generation deserve far better credit for all their hard work in building schools and shelters in many parts of the world. Most assuredly, these wonderful and loving souls deserve praise in my part of the world.
    I live in the far east Asia and I can tell all of you ignorant left wing "we are for you Palestine home state sympathizers " and young Americans and foot loose fancy free European, that you'll never ever come across a muslim charity here in my part of the world who will help non muslims in any disasters. In many ways, it is always so strange for me to see the politeness way in nature of European & American travelers in my country when they visit our ancient temples, knowing bloody well that they better not insult any muslims in any way. They’ve been forewarned in their guide books of their actions if they do not observe the basic decorum of muslims or their teachings.

    Yet, when they are safely back home in their countries, they support the demise of Israel. I constantly see them on my cable TV with their ply cards marching against any israelist military actions on Gaza. I'll never understand your liberal stands or your stands on Pro Middle Eastern Arabs views. I would rather donate any form of monetary funds to English D League any day then to support your blind cause for the settlement of the Palestine State. If the lot of you who are Pro Palestine and waging a political warfare for their settlement, my suggestion to you is to come out in great force and picket outside the embassies of SOW U DI to take their Palestine brethrens and have em settled in their HO LY land.

    After all we are constantly bombard on muslim TV how well these SOW U DI folks are and how generous to their cause of printing and sending free Q books to the HO LY warriors in my part of the world. SOW U Di are well known to most secret govt agencies as the main funders of HO LY warriors, {for the lazy ass people who find reading books difficult- don’t waste your time either watching the Hollywood movie “KINGDOM”} with the objective of regaining “the lost” supremacy during SU LAY MEN the great conquered this part of the world.

    My two cents worth of salt on the subject of Mus Man's article is that, he may be right in assuming that MO's devotees are on their rise in numbers across the world. But it means carp to all to assume that their rise in numbers is by any means for the betterment humankind. Its just absurd to reckon this notion when clearly all across the world the cause of most human misery is caused by the fanatical muslims. Slightest provocation on MO or his beaded face or burning of the their Q books and “wa la way” {as we say here in my country} the world’s on ablaze.

    Just, for once, I would like to witness on TV MO’s devils to be saints on the streets rioting against one of their own for throwing expensive shoes at a cowboy or against “ham as” for sending xmas fireworks to israel or against the” tell ill bans” for shooting a young person for advocating schooling in her back water village or against an acid splashing husband on his young wife in “bang a long desh” and for chopping the heads and limbs of Buddhist and Christians in “in do ne sia” or in southern Thailand. I’m quite assured that these will BE THE ONES WHO will be in the fore front of “loonies” burning this world JUST SO to upholding the tenets of Islam.

    I’m so glad that I’m old and will not see long into the future of tantamount sufferings should the tenets of IS LAM is fulfilled, because some lame ass European and American give up his and her fundamental right of his and her forefathers hard earned bill of freedom.

    Sat Sri Akal. {kab ke rega Klasha raj?}

  120. Richmond Timothy says:

    "-ALL WHAT MUSLIMS ARE ASKING YOU IS TO STAY IN YOUR BACK YARD IS IT HARD THING TO DO? So why is it hard for the muslim to stay in his own back yard? Why do I find him polluting every decent place in the world? If it is proper for the muslim to dish out violence to the non muslim he finds in muslimland, it is also proper to do the same to the vermin called muslim found in non muslim land. Muslims are occupying USA and other civilized countries. It is time a crusade was launched on them.

  121. Richmond Timothy says:

    AZZURI GIRL C, I concur with your parents that you heaped whatever has happened to you on yourself. It may have been out of sheer ignorance or the quest to try something exotic as muslim men are seen by western women. If your life is in pieces, quickly gather them up and move on to the next and profitable stage. The man has divorced you according to islam. Take the hint and get out of his way otherwise you may not even live to regret it. As a devout muslim killing you means nothing to him because he would be doing allah's will by ridding the world of one infidel. You may bank on American justice deterring or catching up with him. Do not deceive yourself into conceiving such thoughts for the man may evade the system. Even where he does not, what good would justice achieve if the harm has already been done? The greatest undoing of the civilized world is its total ignorance of islam and its scorch. Those who try to expose the danger inherent in this cult are branded with all kinds of derogatory names especially by pseudo intellectuals and journalists who have sold themselves for a pot of pottage. This is the time for you to accept reality and leave sentiments aside. STOP CRYING FOR IT BENEFITS YOU NOTHING. MOVE ON FOR YOUR FUTURE IS EVEN BRIGHTER NOW.

  122. Danielle says:

    Oh my!

  123. vijay says:

    Just got the news, first from anti Islamists Hindus and then reconfirm it from another neutral source. The most brutal rapist, who lead to the death of girl is named as Mohamad Afroz allies Raju. And due to his status of minor age, he will be not be prosecuted but will out soon after some reforms, due to Indian laws. If I am not mistaken, he lured that girl into bus calling her as elder sister. This guy is the sixth person. He was mentioned during the first time but identity was not disclosed for his being minor.

  124. haroon rashid says:

    ali sina may i ask you wt religon are you?you realy need to grow up and see the world clearly insted of spreading hater in the world!!!i am muslim but live in westresn country more then 10years i have your personal contect details and everything should i send you what i see how girl is treat here after drunkness and after little bit angerness but its not worthy to send you cos i am working on it been long time and there are too many other reasoneable sources to spread our peacefull message i recomend you something insted of doing this can you tell people first that who you are and what is your back ground and i think everybody should know your past too and i bet after knowing all this you would feel to sort yourself out first and then preach people your stories!!!by the way friend of mine from canda(shabir ally)going to upload your real face and real truth about you very soon and to be honest i just can not wait for that cos his information showed me what kind of shitt your are ::::)))))))

  125. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    Jesus died for us all, christians and Moslems.????

    [youtube uoLvAbMP2lY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoLvAbMP2lY youtube]

  126. haroon rashid says:

    you are funny sina and i must say you dont know the defination of GOD.
    you said why would GOD want to decive his creatures??GOD dont do this cos HE loves us 70times more then our mother and what is in your book???who are you??another prophicy claimer in christianity?or there may gona be another gospel(gospel of sina) i dont understand that why would a father killed his beloved innocent son for other people mistakes and if the mission is peace and love then why would someone innocent has to get killed for forgivness(if you know what i am talking about)and you are talking about ALLAH and PROPHETS attributes!!!insted of publishing books start to find out what is the defination of GOD.does GOD needs birth and death?

  127. haroon rashid says:

    hahah well said this is my first time i m on this page and was wondring wt kind of person he is and what he is trying to do and what exactly his mean is,of course i m mulim brought up in muslim socity and now spending life in westren country been long time but this person is talking about us and about the system of our socity which we dont know never seen neither heard but anyway everyone has rights to say whatever they want but SAHER i m totaly agree with u that the story on top is absolutly his style of writing and making stories and i didnt realize anywhere that it sounds or style of american english and to make myself more sure i start reading all his blogs and stories and it sounds and style same but anyway mr sina or whatever ur propper name is if you belive in jesus and think that the mission peace then you are not doing the right things you just spreading hater with your stories and lies and saying things you might never seen in your life or never heard about them so my recomendations is that you have nice blog and cleaver mind so better if you use it for peace and love because life has too many other things to do too.all the best.

  128. Ali Sina says:

    “You have a responsibility unless he committs adultary ,the bible advises us to stay.”

    And what if he beats her? No there is no reason to stay in an abusive relationship. I often say, if you are in an abusive relationship it is because you deserve it. Why? Because if your husband beats you the first time it is his fault but if beats you the second time it is your fault. There is no reason to stay in an abusive relationship. Unless one cannot leave for any reason there is no excuse to put up with a brute. You live once. Try to live it as happy as you can. If you are sitting in a chair with a sticking nail in it, will you not change your seat? If your shoes bother you will you not throw them away? You even pull your tooth and throw it away if it becomes infections and you can’t rescue it.

    If you are a masochist and don’t mind to be abused by your husband please do not prescribe it to others. Leave a man that beats you, whether Muslim or not. If he is going to change let someone else have him. You find someone that has done his changes.

    ————
    “Unfortunately, speaking from experience ,you will have at times a very lonely marriage lacking the depth that those who share a belief in Christ share. But this is our cross to bear,”

    No one has to carry any cross. We are created to enjoy life and be happy. When we are happy in a happy relationship we can raise happy and emotionally healthy children who will not be scared for the rest of their lives. When children grow up in unhappy families they form unhappy families of their own and the cycle will continue. If you enjoy suffering please keep it to yourself. My advise to other is to be happy and get out of circumstances that make them unhappy.

  129. Christy says:

    My responce was erased,it was not filled with hate.Perhaps no one wants to hear that you should refer to the Bible and what it says about marriage with an unbeliever. I am also in a cross cultural and religous marriage. We live with our choices . Recognize that Christ loves our unbelieving husbands more than we do,go to Him for guidance.

  130. Christy says:

    All marriages are difficult,esp. cross cultural with different religions. I speak from experience. However, as a Christian we have to ask Christ what is best and refer to the Bible. The bible specifically addressed the wives of unbelievers . We are reminded that we can have an impact in which the unbeliever would have an oppurtunity to know him. This is a lonely, hard mission in which you have already picked up the cross by marrying him. You have a responsibility unless he committs adultary ,the bible advises us to stay. If you can change so can he. Prayers,a change in you that he can see the truth can really make a differance. Remember ,the man you loved,remember that Christ also loves him more than you do. He can change but will not if your marriage is a war of culture. Unfortunately, speaking from experience ,you will have at times a very lonely marriage lacking the depth that those who share a belief in Christ share. But this is our cross to bear, Jesus died for us all, christians and Moslems. If you really believe than go to the Source of your belief for guidance.

  131. Steadyfriend says:

    From your writings, it is clear you accept a muslim man can have up to 4 wives if he upholds the condition of being able to do justice "to each and everyone of them". However, in the 21st century, that is not the point. The point is a muslima has not been given the same right of having up to 4 spouses. THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG IN ISLAM. I am sure you can see the inequity of this 4-wives Quranic ruling!

    {Don't point out the oft-repeated reasoning of other muslims to me, namely if a woman had up to 4 husbands, the paternity of the child cannot be determined, it can be done using DNA methods — strange how Allah could not foresee or foretell this development of the 20th century! Also, don't tell me a woman with multiple husbands will become a prostitute. This would be true only of a muslim man with 4 wives and other "right hand possessions"(sex slaves) is termed a womaniser and male prostitute}

    I have provided one example alone, but I can draw your attention to at least 10 other iniquitous rules from the Quran for the muslim woman. These constitute discrimination against and oppression of the muslim woman in Islam.

  132. thewho says:

    So how much good deeds you think you have delivered to humankind?? I came to the us as refugee and was granted an asylum visa simply bc good deeds aren't exist in islam. Back in 98 muslims raped, killed n robbed christians in indonesia, it was a hugeee riots, those muslims they burned houses, steal from stores, most got instantly rich from the stolen stuff and with the money they went to meccah to praise allah for making them rich by stealing become a haj and also to wash their hands from the sins they have done. Unfortunately indonesian government (which r 99.9% muslims) covered this fact by lying to the world that this wasnt a religionconflict. I was witnessing everything! How they raped n killed us christians while screaming allah huakbar! Allah huakbar! Rape the women, kill the men and the children! Allah huakbar!! So where is the good deed islam has delivered to humankind?? You even called me kafir. Is that good deed in your language?

  133. J_Stillwater says:

    @zitouni… is boko haram fighting muslims? Let's move the battle arena to nigeria… is boko haram fighting muslims? No… are they taking slaves? Yes… are they raping them? Yes… Do they believe they are waging Jihad? Absolutey YES… as they have said in their beheading videos…

    By the way… I have never read about boko haram on an "anti-islam" site… I have only read about them from al-jazeera, Reuters, alarabia and other global news sources…

    J Stillwater

  134. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Joe, violence is not a norm in Islam, it is an exception. It is only applicable in war situations. You may want to read the entire surah al Taubah in order to obtain a fuller understanding of the context. You also may want to spare sometime to find opinions which support my statement.

    I disagree with my fellow Muslims regarding sending children to war or sending suicide bombers. However, I want to argue that these are not isolated cases and we have to look at them not only from religious perspective but also from political, sociological, psychological perspectives. I am sure you can appreciate that human beings are a complex entity, and they, including Muslims, deserve to be treated accordingly.

    To me terrorism is a desperate response of desperate people. You may still remember the case of Timothy McVeigh, who, when he was still a young man, bombed a city centter building in Oklahoma and killed almost 168 people. Just recently, Adam Lanza, a young man, shot his mother to death and killed 26 other people, the majority of whom were elementary school children. I don't know what kind of desperation these people were in since they came from better to do communities than the majority of Muslims, but there must be some sort of psychological problems somewhere in their lives. Otherwise how could they have the heart to kill so many innocent people, which defied any standard of sanity.

    I believe we need to launch an international scholarship program to investigate why these things happened. We always can start from a hypothesis saying that, in the case of Muslims, they happened because of Quran 9:5. And then we can develop other hypotheses which view the problems from the perspectives of sociology, psychology, politics, economic, history, etc. We Muslims are open for these studies.

  135. thewho says:

    Dear C, a suggestion for you, leave this man, but PLEASE PLEASE dont just stop at locking your door from him, send him back to his country, KICK HIM OUT OF THE STATES! since you have only been married for 2 years his green card status is still CR (conditional resident) he could lose this status if you (as his sponsor) do not remove it. This is from the uscis web: effect of not filing: if this petition is not filed you (He) will automatically lose your (His) permanent resident status as for the second anniversary of the date which you (He) were granted conditional status. remember the anniversary is not the date of your marriage, but the date of when he first stepped into the US soil. so please do not file the petition to remove his CR status, he could still try to stay in the states by requesting a waiver, but i highly doubt the USCIS will grant it, why?i cant tell too much i dont want this information to be a loophole that will be used by unresponsible muslims who are using american citizens to get a permit to stay in the states (i know how they are i was born and lived in one of the largest muslim country) so back to his GC, yes fortunately if you dont remove it his GC will be terminated and he will be deported. dont let him stay in the US trust me….he will use another woman like u (i hope you get my point)

  136. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… please see my comment posted at this link, for my response to the above questions.

    J Stillwater

  137. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… If I can show you two or more clear, irrefutable examples where Muhammad ordered the slaughter of persons speaking against him (i.e. disagreeing with him)… will you change your name to Non-Muslim Man and renounce islam?

    Think about it, you've said that it is bad for people to slaughter other people for disagreeing with them. If muhammad and his companions practiced this reprehensible behavior, don't you think this is a good enough reason for you to abandon islam? Do you want to be the follower of a man who so insecure that he assassinated people who spoke against him? Do you want to be the follower of a man who obviously has lower moral principals than you do? If you do, you can clearly see why I say islam is madness.

    Let me know when you are ready for me to post the information about muhammad the assassin.

    J Stillwater

  138. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… you mention the idea that "political considerations" have to be investigated in order to reach a "fair" assessment. I would say: "fair enough" if this were isolated to one country or region within a country. However, murderous brutality is a trademark of islam wherever it spreads, from india to france, to the netherlands to the UK. It is NOT, as you are trying to get people to believe, an anomaly. It is the very nature of islam to spread brutality, opression and terror. Muhammad himself proclaimed: "I am made victorious through terror."

    Please visit This Link, and while you're there, have a look at the links on the right side of the page.

    J Stillwater

  139. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… yet more muslims bring grief and heartache on their neighbors.

    Bangladesh:
    (home of the islamic terror organization: Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh)

    Keep in mind as you read the following links, that the Bangladeshi muslims are turning away their Rohingya muslim brothers and sisters by the hundreds of thousands who are trying to reach safety from the violence that was sparked in neighboring burma, when 3 muslims raped and slit the throat of Thida Htwe, while she walked home from her job. They robbed her, and took her jewelry, and dumped her body in a mangrove field.

    Buddhists killed
    Buddhist temples torched
    Christians driven from their homes by muslims
    Protests agains muslim violence
    Apostates from islam persecuted

    Islam is madness.

    J Stillwater

  140. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… you should be in tears by now… if not, ask yourself why not.

    Nigeria

    143 non-muslims "peaced" to death
    Mubi student killings
    Suicide bomb on church
    20 Christians shot at church
    Hostages killed
    Boko haram
    Church bombing

    Continued below… unfortunately.

    J Stillwater

  141. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… still more peace and harmony (persecution and butchery) brought on by muslims in islamic countries:

    Malaysia:
    Anti Christian seminar
    Churches Firebombed
    Mathura Riot

    Continued below…

    J Stillwater

  142. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… yet more peace and harmony (persecution and butchery) brought on by muslims in islamic countries:

    Indonesia:
    (along with the usual muslim barbarism, we also have Sunni muslims against ahmadiyah "moderate" muslims for not being "muslim" enough). If there is ever a world wide caliphate, this will likely be the fate of secularist muslims and other moderate muslims. You'd be considered a moderate muslim, right Muslim Man? What will these savages do to you?

    Christians attacked:
    Murdered Police:
    3 Christian girls beheaded
    Ahmadihah muslims killed for not being muslim enough!
    Shia muslims killed by sunni (no surprise there)
    Graphic video of an Ahmadihah muslim being slaughtered by fellow muslims

    J Stillwater

  143. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… First you called it "occasional tensions" in islamic countries, and now you state: "The violence happening in many of these countries baffles many people." Why would "occasional tensions" baffle many? Because it is more than occasional and it is more than tensions.

    See… In an earlier post regarding the "millions" of non-muslims living in virtual peace and harmony in islamic countries, instead of just coming out and admitting that there is "baffling" violence in these countries… you instead stated: "Occassionally there are tensions, and some of the tensions can be bloody – but these are an exception rather than the norm."

    I then asked you for five countries where these millions of non-muslims are living in all this peace and harmony, and you posted: Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nigeria (REALLY?), Bangladesh… wow… are you SURE you want to post THESE countries? Nigeria? Bangladesh? Really?

    Let's let the muslims in these countries speak for themselves. Here are some links I prepared for you through my tears of grief and disgust.

    This is the general butchery and persecution link. I've posted other links as replies to this post.
    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3485/muslim-per

    J Stillwater

  144. Muslim Man says:

    Dear zitouni, I know the three universities you mentioned, and I am aware of international Islamic universities in Uganda, Pakistan, Malaysia. I also know that there are hundreds other Islamic universities in the Muslim world, which offer various academic programs in Islamic sciences. However, graduating from these programs does not automatically make a person a qualified scholar who can issue fatwa or interpret the Quran through rigorous ijtihad process.

    Certainly the presence of graduates of these programs in the community is very beneficial in providing guidance to the ummah in various aspects of the religion.

  145. John says:

    So….. Azzu girl, its time for you to stop thinking about what is wrong with this man and the marriage. It is time for you to stop complaining how bad the food is. It is time to take some ACTION. Throw the food away. Simple. Get something else to eat.
    Are you taking action? Are you getting a divorce? If you stay in this marriage and you keep complaining, guess what: You DO have to lie in this bed because you made it. No one wants to hear you complain while you are sitting in the marriage.
    So START the divorce process. Then join any relationships forum for support.
    People are tired of hearing you complain about the marriage.

    Its just like the food example I gave. You are eating a plate of dinner and its horrible but you are continuing to eat it and are complaining and wishing the food was different. IT CANT BE.
    Get something else to eat OR stop complaining. We don't want to hear it.

  146. Demsci says:

    Search for truth said:
    "Dismissal and denial are not REBUTTAL!"

    Ali Sina can be seen to use the terms Nonsens, Lies etc also, but he always let those follow by a proper REBUTTAL, explaining how he looks upon the same issue and why he prefers his own take over the take of his opponent.

    But when you are only in a destructive mode you dismiss-deny-debunk on ground only of an opponent not having provided evidence and an answer. But the opponent does not need to do this, because what he proposed could still be true and meritorious.

    He merely risks being defeated by contradicting evidence and a contradicting opinion supported by evidence.

  147. Demsci says:

    Many of your debunking-denial-dismissing and then denigrating-deflecting CONCLUSIONS are based on the fallacy of assuming a proposition false merely because it is not accompanied by evidence.

    this means that subsequent conclusions by you of lying of your opponent and him being dishonest or your opponent being defeated by just because he did not answer your demands for proof, are also

    FALSE CONCLUSIONS, based on you committing the fallacy mentioned above.

  148. Demsci says:

    You asking for evidence, examples is fine. But the opponent who has just made a proposition for which you asked that, is under no obligation to answer. Even if he does not answer it is still a fallacy to declare his proposition false merely because of lack of evidence.

    It should be enough that the opponent to such a person who gives propositions but no evidence is in a favorable position to convince the reader by providing counterproof, or a counterproposition WITH evidence.

  149. Demsci says:

    I say that you have 2 parts at least in your responses;
    I. the constructive part, which is often very good.
    II. The debunking-denying-dismissing-denigrating-deflecthing, in short destructive part.

    This second part is in potential for a big part to the disadvantage of the reader, because possible true and meritorious claims-propositions-opinions of your opponents are swept away through you committing the fallacy of assuming a proposition false, meaningless, meritless simply because evidence is not attached and the readers then is in danger of also dismissing truth and merit.

  150. Demsci says:

    This is that same fallacy in a somewhat different form:

    "Argument from ignorance (appeal to ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam) – assuming that a claim is true (or false) because it has not been proven false (true) or cannot be proven false (true).[13]

    You use the variety of assuming that a claim is false because it has not been proven true.

    I am a person rich in details, proposition, or claims, opinions but poor or slow in providing evidence for them.

    I am not used to accompany propositions-claims-opinions with evidence all the time. Neither are almost all those I interact with regularly.

    But to claim my propositions-claims-opinions are false JUST because I fail to provide evidence, THAT IS a logical fallacy. It is also a fallacy to assume that my propositions are meaningless, without merit, simply because there is no evidence attached to them.

    Truthseeker-readers should accept at least ambiguity about my propositions or give me benefit of the doubt for the sake of finding highest possible truth and not believe you when you start being negative about them; claiming them to be false, meritless and not worthy of belief, consideration, examination.

  151. Demsci says:

    THIS is the fallacy you keep committing and using:

    "Argumentum ad lapidem (Latin: "to the stone") is a logical fallacy that consists in dismissing a statement as absurd without giving proof of its absurdity.[1] The form of argument employed by such dismissals is the argumentum ad lapidem, or appeal to the stone.[2][3]
    Ad lapidem statements are fallacious because they fail to address the merits of the claim in dispute. "

  152. zitouni says:

    Still waterv said : actually, your post is not correct. What Dar es Salam" means is "house of peace," and has nothing to do with submission. It is a different phrase altogether..

    Let me put an end to this silly argument about peace , Islam which one is . Here is how Bin Kathir interpreted the verse 2 : 208 where he said that silm in the verse means Islam according to pioner of Tafsir science ibn Abbas
    http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_conte

  153. zitouni says:

    still water said : Dear J Stillwater, as far as I know there is no agency in the Muslim world which qualifies 'qualified scholars'.

    I do not know what do you mean by agency . There are academics establishement which qualifies Koranic scholars just like all academics establishemnet which qualifies biblical scholars , English scholars , history scholars and son on . You are very ignorant person about Islam . Have you ever heard about Azhar university in Egypt or the world first university Kayrawan in Morocco , or Zaytona University in Tunisia ??? . Al these universities are world top in producing Koranic scholars

  154. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, you said "I have already asked this question of muslims… in fact… very learned muslims… and they have all agreed that jizya will return with the reinstatement of shariah law in a worldwide califate (in conquered areas anyway)"

    How many very learned Muslims did you ask? Do you think they represent all Muslims?

  155. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, we can find non-Muslims live happily in Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nigeria, Bangladesh, and other Muslim countries. One Coptic Christian represented Egypt in the UN as the UN Secretary General. Just recently a Hindu became Chief Justice in Pakistan. Non-Muslims in Malaysia and Indonesia play a major role in the economies of the two countries. If I am not mistaken, Istanbul remains the center of the world's Orthodox Christianity.

    The violence happening in many of these countries baffles many people. This is despite the injunction to do good to others and the fact that these people have a track record of being peaceful. A textual interpretation of the verse in its exclusivity is one possibility to explain what has happened. But I believe there are political considerations, which we have to investigate as well in order to establish a fair assessment of the situation.

  156. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, you said: " your "qualified scholars" have "interpreted" the words "strike at their necks at length" to include striking at their necks, heads, chests, legs, arms, etc., with… bombs, ak47's, improvised explosive devices, shoulder launched grenades, suicide vests, sniper rounds, etc.

    I am wondering where and when I suggested that my qualified scholars etc … etc. I hope this does not represent "ad hominem" and "fallacy of insufficient sample" on your part.

  157. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, what you call madness, I call it dynamics. This has been shown since the early days of Islam. For instance, the second Caliph called for tarawih prayer to be done in congregation — this was not practiced during the days of the Prophet. Tarawih prayer is a recommended prayer during the nights of Ramadhan. Ramadhan is the ninth month of the Hijra year during which Muslims fast.

    Prayer (or "salah") is not something that can be lightly decided upon even by a Caliph. The hadeeth has reports on the consideration why the second Caliph took that position and how that position was adopted. Yet, even until now there are still people who disagree with the second Caliph. This is what I call dynamics.

    So, there are precedents for interpretation and reinterpretation. And there is always room for differences.

    This include differences in opinion on the application of jizya. I believe the majority of Muslims are of the opinion that jizya is no longer applicable as shown by the fact that there is no jizya being applied in any Muslim countries. But, as I have said, some people or scholars may have a different opinion – they are entitled to their opinion, but they don't represent all Muslims.

  158. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, Islamic scholarship is dynamic and contextual. There has been interpretation and reinterpretation of Quran. Certainly, there are also scholars who insist on textual interpretation of Quran. However, I believe, contextual interpretation is the most suitable.

  159. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, as far as I know there is no agency in the Muslim world which qualifies 'qualified scholars'. However, there are thousands of learning institutions in the Muslim world which train Muslims on various disciplines of Islam such as aqidah, fiqh, and of course Arabic language. Recent dvelopment also sees increasing interest in Islamic economics and finance. As far as I know, none of these institutions calls its graduates 'qualified scholar' or even 'scholar.' The term 'scholar', although not sacred, commands a very high respect from the community, and it is the community itself in very informal and unofficial way which recognizes a person a 'scholar.' Therefore, the scholars don't have to come to you to get your recognition. What you have to do is produce your opinion on a number of issues and let the community and other scholars judge for themselves whether your opinion is scholarly enough that makes you eligible to be called a scholar. If you can produce scholarly opinion, the community will call you a scholar even if you don't want to be called as such.

    However, there are always differences among scholars, which has led to formation of different schools of thought. This also shows that there is no obligation for a Muslim to follow a certain fatwa issued by a certain scholar.

  160. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, I continue to maintain that slaughtering people who disagree with you is bad. And the Prophet did not sluaghter people who disagreed with him. Therefore, I don't slaughter people just because of them being in disagreement with me.

    The context of the Quran injunction is war. In a peaceful situation, where there is no war and therefore no enemies that injunction is not applicable. There is a saying or a hadith (I cannot quote it precisely — that's why I am not a qualified scholar) which says that Islam is a religion for people who think. I would not be considered a thinking person if I just went to my neighbor's house and kill him, and had I done that thenI was in clear violation of the Prophet's teaching.

  161. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    Tay either you are stupid or not well informed ! Even I have suggested divorce based on compatibility issues but didn't get reply.

    There are hundreds of hundreds of stories have deformed relationships , love involving other faiths But…

    Simple thing to understand intention of this site. It aims to frame Islam, Muslims, prophet by making object of subject of such stories !

    If you think this reply unpleasant so as truth is bitter lol

  162. Tay Jacqueline says:

    C, I didn't reply directly to your post as I am not a member of your blogging site, hence I posted here for you.

    I might have chosen a wrong place to reply your post haha cos i've just received a reply, and thinking it might be you, i read it and then realised oops it's not, but, just to add, was uninvited and unpleasant, to say the very best.

    So C, i hoped you read my 2 earlier messages to you and if you do not, I wish you the very best. I worded my texts carefully so far, or so I thought, so as not to get involved with theological debates with either sides. But I guess, my naive attempt failed, and badly haha. So it's best I keep my mouth shut henceforth. You may email me privately if you wish about your life. I left my email address at this site, Ali's site I believe? before I can post to you as a guest.

    C, do what makes you truly happy. We all do so, even the gentleman who have just posted the 'unpleasant' reply to me. He needed to feel better. And he, as well as others, probably would do again after this, it is beyond his control, but will claim that it is by his choice, which is …..well. But C, you DO have a choice. Be TRULY happy. Choose it. Be in control of your life. You know what to do. Just do it.

    Bye

  163. zitouni says:

    Zakat said : Reading is not enough ,the purpose is most important ,you may be having plenty of time on useless discussion ,teach this to your child and u r un-educated ***** wife, OK, I am not here to taker your kind thought (that is garbage for me ,keep it with you) .

    I am not going to waste my time with dumb fucck ignorant and lazy kafir who wants to oppose before learning anything

  164. aminthemystic says:

    So why BOTHER to come to a controversial site in the first place? For what . . . then run away?

    – – –

    Sina has done this before. After some posts . . . the alleged person mysteriously disappears – perhaps in order NOT to reveal the forgery by tripping up?

  165. Tay Jacqueline says:

    C, do not be distracted from comments on this blog about religious debates from both sides. Why bother how others see you? Let them think you are fake or whatever. Let them. Don't allow yourself to think more than 2 seconds about these remarks. It's not worth your brain space.

    Instead focus on your issue at hand. Take those advice from comments that address your main concern. And make your decisions. Do not be sidetracked. Focus!

    Dont be bothered to explain yourself or argue further. There will always be interesting contraceptions devised to throw you off because of the specific situation you are in. This blog will turn into a debate for others' purposes. But if those comments serve none of your needs except to cause you further distress and hurt, ignore them.

    Get a firm grip of your emotions. Do not be distracted. Your issue is your marriage. Comments that do not address your specific isues are not going to help you deal with your marriage except waste your time further.

    And go see a shrink for your panic attacks. Medication and other forms of help are also available.

    Peace.

  166. Tay Jacqueline says:

    Dear C, you can't change your husband, not even by trying to love him, nothing will. Give up that notion. It is his own free will to change. You can't love him to change him, that would not be love on your part. That would be manipulative and selfish. Hopefully my words are not too harsh to you. But the grace your Faith taught you is not to love for a purpose. It is acceptance.

    If you love him, let him be. Accept him as he is. Recognise he has a choice. It is entirely up to him. Whether he is brainwashed, or he is indeed or not capable/have the freedom of mind to choose, it is not an excuse which you need to give him, so as to give yourself a 'reason' to stay.

    But you have to love yourself as well, as your Faith teaches you 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'. Which implies you have to first love yourself. And respect yourself enough to stand up for how others treat you. You are blinded by your feelings too much. Let go of this relationship, this marriage, this man. Loving feelings, needing someone, loneliness, pain, these are transient only. Embrace them yes, but keep moving. These feelings will go away. Have the courage to want to have a better life, to want to wake up one morning and smile, instead of cry.

    He does not love you the way you wish him to. After all the things he did to you as described by your letter. Face that fact. He is not right guy.

    Be courageous and strong. Exercise your right as an adult to choose. Move on. Walk away. Be free. Go back to Your Faith. Have children in the future to embrace the Faith of your choice.

    Be brave, C, be brave. Very quickly, happiness will find you.

  167. aminthemystic says:

    NOTICE . . . . the quote is FROM

    Religonofpeace. . .site

    And I refuted their inaccurate claims . . .

    – – –

    You said:

    "I'm glad you've finally admitted that islam is not a religion of peace, and is instead, an aggressive, religio/fascist ideology of supremacy and world domination. Thank you.
    "

    Which implies I am agreeing to what you claim.

    Which is NOT the case.

    – – –

    Did you BOTHER to read what was posted?

    I don't think so . . .

    You were simply interested in an attempt to demonise.

  168. aminthemystic says:

    "But I propose that in the presence of a proposition without evidence the job of a defender is to provide to the reader a SECOND OPINION, however small, and with no obligation of evidence, to choose from. "

    This is SIMPLY absurd – and simply EXCUSES from you.

    Who else has come up with this and agrees with you?

    Name them. . .

    SURELY – you are NOT the only person to say this.

    – – –

    This has actually gone on long enough. You made a claim – WHICH YOU PROBABLY made up . . .

    when challenged . . . you could NOT GIVE EVIDENCE. . .

    Hence this excuse.

    I was probably right.

    Rather than admitting . . . you are simply carrying on with this absurdity.

    – – –

    "Aminriadh (often) wants to nullify propositions, arguments, claims, as if they were never mentioned."

    Where – you make MANY lying claims about me. . . then simply subside when challenged . . . then they pop up again.

    – – –

    "That is if he does not want to use propositions against opponents if he can.
    (But that same treatment he does not want to be used against Quran-Hadiths-Sira-Tafsir). "

    More lying. And NOTHING more . . .

    – – –

    See you made this "propositions " BS up. No one in the world hold this to be true. Else . .. show me?

    And use this BS to make up further strange excuses and lies like this:

    "That is if he does not want to use propositions against opponents if he can.
    (But that same treatment he does not want to be used against Quran-Hadiths-Sira-Tafsir)."

    – – –

    "I want to accept and appreciate propositions a little and let them then be opposed by and compete and be compared with better propositions, arguments, claims, opinions. To present the reader with informed choices. It is a positive approach. "

    No just absurd – and UTTER BS.

    Else why don't you show me – who else is saying it?

  169. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… read paragraphs 6, 7 and 8 in your post that generated my comments which you say are "lies." You'll see that you indeed DID post three paragraphs (with a quote from islamic scholar Ibrahim Sulaiman), from which I quoted two. You'll notice, if you read up the page, to where your name appears, you'll see "aminthemystic" as the person who posted that comment.

    So… is aminthemystic actually several people posting under the same screen name? That would explain why you didn't even know you had posted this information… one wonders…. doesn't one?

    J Stillwater

  170. aminthemystic says:

    "It is the umptieth strawman-fallacy committed against me. "

    No it isn't – else for the umpteenth time why?

    – – –

    "I am in favor of letting personal abuse be and against protection of hurt feelings. "

    NO – you actively encouraged and JUSTIFIED such abuse.

    That is 2 different things.

    Continual denial of this is just lying about it.

    – – –

    "But I understand that there are borders, like the place where to do it, on principle a place where people can "zap away" and I suppose that extreme cases of slander can be punishable by law. "

    Again . . .excuses.

    As per usual – this is NOT for the 1st time. When on issues you claim to have certain beliefs – then it proven and used against you . . .

    you start to make excuses.

    – – –

    "Burden of proof" is one such issue. You make absurd excuses against it.

  171. aminthemystic says:

    Actually – you HAVE lost all credibility when you do what you did.

    I mean it generally!

    – – –

    It is NOT that I assume to speak for everyone – I don't have to.

    Such actions lead to loss of credibility near friend and foe.

    – – –

    "Finally… your statement assumes that I once had credibility with you. I sincerely doubt this is the case, so again, logical fallacy, and just another attempt to "poison the well" in the hopes that your comments will distract readers away from my reasoning… classic debate tactics… but again… poorly played. "

    As per usual – you simply tend to accuse people of "logical fallacies"

    I have REPEATEDLY proven to these to be false.

    You simply do this to appear big.

    – – –

    As I said . . .. matter of credibility is NOT limited to whether one is one ones side or not.

    For example:

    A liar is a liar . . . .based upon telling lies.

    What side? That has nothing to do with it.

    – – –

    "in the hopes that your comments will distract readers away from my reasoning… classic debate tactics… but again… poorly played. "

    Which argument?

    What argument?

    There IS NO argument in the above. Else do point it out.

    You REPEATEDLY make such false allegation. . .

    and they are repeatedly exposed.

    Then you start inventing excuses. . . .like "search google" and whatnot.

    – – –

    You have simply read a list of fallacies and accuse by rote.

    As for understanding . . . that you lack.

    – – –

    Your loss of credibility id regrading your promises of logic and evidences . . .

    Which never did come.

    However as I pointed out in the above – what is with the above lie?

    – – –

    As you DID NOT bother to answer.

    One can say the only one distracting is you.

  172. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… now you are speaking for all people everywhere? Why don't you say: "J Stillwater, WITH ME you have lost all credibility…" ?? That would be more accurate. Can you see how your statement is a fallacy? It assumes in the conclusion, several things that you would have to prove first. It is much more accurate to state: "you have lost all credibility WITH ME," since you can ONLY speak for yourself, and not for anybody else.

    Finally… your statement assumes that I once had credibility with you. I sincerely doubt this is the case, so again, logical fallacy, and just another attempt to "poison the well" in the hopes that your comments will distract readers away from my reasoning… classic debate tactics… but again… poorly played.

    J Stillwater

  173. J_Stillwater says:

    @Ali Sina and all… You are correct Mr. Sina. I do not think muslims are bad. As I stated to Muslim Man:

    I don't have an "unfavorable" attitude toward muslims. I have a justified attitude toward muslims who are acting unfavorably. The problem is not muslims… muslims are people… and people are the same everywhere… the problem is islam… the destroyer of progress and civilization…

    I have further discussed this in this series of comments: (part 1), (part 2).

    "Good" or "Evil" as I define it, has to do with behavior. "Good" is defined by the absence of "evil" behavior. In other words, if a person wants to be seen as good, then they must rid themselves of "evil" behavior, because in the presence of their evil behavior, they cannot be considered good. However, behavior, over time, does affect the mind and heart of a person. There does come a time when the line between person and behavior begins to blur. This is because practice becomes personality. This is not, however, a permanent condition, and can be changed by abandoning the cause of the evil behavior.

    J Stillwater

  174. aminthemystic says:

    You lost ALL credibility after the BIG DECLARATION fiasco.

    Yet you are still here – how shameless.

    Still making petty arguments. Which you lose over and over.

    – – –

    Why have you started to make up strange lies?

    See here:
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/19/bitter-love-an

    Why?
    – – –

    As for this:

    "The whole idea of an "outline" is that it is not comprehensive,"

    Yes it appears to be my mistake. It did not see the "not" and thought you were claiming it to be the opposite.

  175. aminthemystic says:

    huh?

    Or are you on drugs son?

    – – –

    "I'm glad you've finally admitted that islam is not a religion of peace, and is instead, an aggressive, religio/fascist ideology of supremacy and world domination. Thank you. "

    Where?

    I have NOT done anything of the sort.

    – – –

    "You posted:

    As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

    In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also commands them to subdue people of other religions; until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its success in conquering other cultures.""

    I have NOT posted anything of the sort.

    – – –

    Have you lost it completely?

    Wow!

    First it was Sina making up outright lies . . . now it appears it is you!

    – – –

    You lost any credibility you had after this "big declaration" hoo-ha

    And it has been downhill for you ever since.

    – – –

  176. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… I'm glad you've finally admitted that islam is not a religion of peace, and is instead, an aggressive, religio/fascist ideology of supremacy and world domination. Thank you.

    You posted:

    As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

    In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also commands them to subdue people of other religions; until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its success in conquering other cultures."

    As I've been saying… Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Thanks for giving us this scholar that we can now quote to show other people that Islam is not a religion of peace. It is exactly what we've been saying about it, it is madness. Only madmen say that "violence and bloodshed" are not "inhumane." Only madmen think they have the right to "subdue people of other religions." And only madmen (and madwomen) follow such insanity.

    J Stillwater

  177. J_Stillwater says:

    @Slave of prophet… you've made my case for me… A few days ago, you appeared and answered a post with the following comment:

    Muslim are most peaceful people of the world. Islam does not need recognition from Kufr/non-believers as peaceful religion because Allah himself said Muslim are best people and best creature. Our prophet Mohammed was messenger of peace and established peace all over the world by establishing Islam.

    I answered your comment (click here) and stated islam is indeed NOT the most peaceful religion… and you responded with the post just above this one… which contains the following statement:

    My lord Allah do right by punishing and torture you in eternal hell fire. Quran rightly says kill the monster like you…

    Now… why can't you see, that your allah, by using words like "punish" and "torture" and "eternal hell fire" proves islam is FAR from a religion of peace? Why can't you see that your qur'an, by using the words "kill" and "monster" proves that muhammad, islam, and muslims are NOT peaceful. I'm amazed, after your blatant contradiction, you still don't see the madness of islam. The word "peace" now means "punish" and "torture," and "kill" and "eternal hell fire." Yes, Slave of prophet… this all makes perfect sense. I can see why everyone should want to become a muslim.

    J Stillwater

  178. Sakat says:

    in anoyjer dumb fucck idiot . Go and read about Banu Mustaliq dummy before you say there were innocent

    keep this mubahila with you and your pig head Mohammed Jesus or Bufda were not political or military leaders . Prophet Muhamed he acted like them when he was in Mecca , but once he became leader he had to take arms and defend his nation
    Your breast fed Mohammed is worst then the Atilla the Viking

    Muhamed was more than a prophet

    You are confused lot ,pass elementary exams in arguments and critical thinking and then come here. If your pig head Mohammed is above Prophet ,what was he "Phosphate" Mohammed .Think about it.

  179. Sakat says:

    Reading is not enough ,the purpose is most important ,you may be having plenty of time on useless discussion ,teach this to your child and u r un-educated whore wife, OK, I am not here to taker your kind thought (that is garbage for me ,keep it with you) .

  180. Demsci says:

    Correction: I want to let them be opposed and compete and be compared with

    OTHER propositions, arguments, claims, opinions. the reader can decide which propositions are the BETTER ones.

  181. Demsci says:

    "Or that he [Demsci] holds giving evidence to be true and proper thing to do. . . but not doing"

    True. But incomplete. Nevertheless I appreciate the understanding that indeed I do believe giving evidence to be proper and in the interest of finding more and higher truth.

    But in a context; in a setting where there is a proposer, an opponent, usually a defender of something, and there is at least one …… reader, judge, juror.

    When there are 2 sides the side with the argument with the best evidence should and would be favored by the reader.

    But I propose that in the presence of a proposition without evidence the job of a defender is to provide to the reader a SECOND OPINION, however small, and with no obligation of evidence, to choose from.

    Instead what Aminriadh as a defender tries to do again and again (but not always, I know): To debunk-deny-dismiss-negate the propositions of, say, "prosecutors" or "witnesses", the ordinary, average commenters here.

    By his argument of appealing to ignorance, saying that propositions of opponents are false or meaningless, because of lack of evidence.

    Aminriadh (often) wants to nullify propositions, arguments, claims, as if they were never mentioned. That is if he does not want to use propositions against opponents if he can.
    (But that same treatment he does not want to be used against Quran-Hadiths-Sira-Tafsir).

    I want to accept and appreciate propositions a little and let them then be opposed by and compete and be compared with better propositions, arguments, claims, opinions. To present the reader with informed choices. It is a positive approach.

  182. Demsci says:

    Hello Muslim Man, I find it very interesting what you say. About Ijtihad and that leading to new or better Islamic law.

    I want to bring to your attention the following;
    In Islam there is the deathpenalty for apostasy. This is forbidding Muslims to get out of the Ummah, the organisation of all Muslims.

    But when parties, organisations have "tenets, goals, standards", which are all declared in some sort of central law or document, then that party expects it's members to conform to those tenets, goals, standards.

    And if people who call themselves members of that party start saying, and acting upon, different tenets, goals, standards, then, after warning to those dissidents by the leaders of the party, those dissidents will be thrown out of the party.

    They will be forbidden to be IN THE PARTY, they can no longer speak in the name of the party. But with Muslims the law is that they are forbidden to be OUT OF THE PARTY.

    Can you see that that leads to a "Muslim-party", the Ummah, with many different opinions, unchecked? And that that leads to lack of credibility for Muslims who claim or imply to speak for all Muslims?

  183. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… please tell me these two statements are not saying the same thing in different ways…

    I wrote: "The whole idea of an "outline" is that it is not comprehensive,"

    You replied: "No – Just because something is an outline – it doesn't make it comprehensive. It makes it the OPPOSITE of comprehensive."

    So… I wrote "not comprehensive" and your "the OPPOSITE of comprehensive." Isn't NOT comprehensive the same things as "the opposite" of comprehensive? In other words, isn't "not A" the same as "Non-A?"

    J Stillwater

  184. J_Stillwater says:

    Continued from above…

    @Muslim Man… you wrote:

    Like you I will also shiver if something like the verse you quoted is read to me. But unlike you, I will try to understand why it is like that. I will investigate the context. Consult with the scholars. Check with people in the street. These are what you may consider doing in order to arrive at a better understanding of the Quran.

    JS: That last statement is chock full of fallacies, as are most of the ones that follow it (see below). You're committing the fallacy of "begging the question," because you have assumed many things that are unproven. You assume, by saying "But unlike you…" that I have not tried to understand why it is like that. You also assume I have not investigated the context, consulted with scholars, etc. You also assume that any of these things will lead to a "better understanding of the qur'an." If the "interpretation" of these verses is constantly being changed by "qualified scholars," (as you've already stated), how can I ever have a clear understanding of the qur'an? How can you? How can anyone? Your next paragraph contains so many fallacies I will handle it all fallacy-by-fallacy using bold text for your comments and plain text for my responses.

    But you have to do it in an honest manner [Ouch! Begs the question, and is ad hominem… because it assumes I have not done my studies in an "honest manner."] Learn about the Quran and Muslims with no preconceived ideas and suspicion." [Ouch! Begs the question… assumes that I approach my study with "preconceived ideas and suspicion."] such as: "don't expect Muslims to be honest," "Muslims are liars" [The islamic practice of taqia (click here) says muslims are indeed liars, in fact, muslims are encouraged to lie if it suits their strategic goals… people who follow a systematized doctrine of lying, for whatever reason… cannot be expected to be honest… and.. because they are told to practice lying… they are liars… right?]

    Muslim Man, you criticized my statement: "Islam is a cult" [ Please look up the definition of the word "cult" and then tell me why islam does not fit that description: "…a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister" – does that description fit what the Quraysh thought of muhammad for 12 years (while all the while he taunted and insulted them and their religion and hurled threats at them like "Hear me, O Quraysh. By Him who holds Muhammad’s life in his hand, I will bring you slaughter.") until he was run out of mecca? (his behavior sounds "sinister" doesn't it?) Some people, have never stopped seeing islam as a cult. I'm one of those people. I don't think anything different about muhammad than the Quraysh did (they thought he was a dangerous madman and islam was a dangerous cult, and they KNEW him personally). So, the view of islam being a cult, has been around since the very first day muhammad stepped forward and condemned his neighbors to hell fire… and this "cult" label just continues until today.] — these are non starters if you want to have a meaningful dialogue [ begs the question… because it assumes I must speak untruths in order to have "meaningful dialogue" and it is a fallacy called "appeal to moderation," which states that a person must bring their ideas and language (and logical reasoning) more and more toward the opponents side in order to appease the opponent into being engaged in the discussion. This is a fallacy.] These are insults [red herring and "appeal to emotion"… just because muslims are insulted by the information I provide, or the things I say, doesn't mean I am intentionally insulting them (the side or "red herring" argument). What I am doing is making very well informed observations (not insults), and from those observations I am making certain conclusions, and then, presenting those conclusions as my reasons for calling muhammad a false prophet and islam false. If muslims are offended, I would suggest they use their allah given logic and show me why my observations are false. If a muslim "insults" me, it is just further proof that they have no logical REASONING to answer my claims and observations… so they will "retaliate" with insults, instead of taking a VERY hard and critical look at their prophet and his islam. ] and the Muslims may consider reciprocating, if they don't have enough patience [muslims insult non-muslims (kafir, infidel, donkeys, apes and swine, etc.) in their qur'an, in their mosques, in their prayers, on the streets in their protests, in their fatwas, in their shariah law, and at the slightest perceived provocation… but thanks for the warning. ]

    J Stillwater

  185. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man…

    Continued from above…

    You wrote:

    MM: J Stillwater, probably you have understood the verse correctly from the language perspective … I say probably, because I am not well trained in Arabic

    JS: Are the islamic commentators who write the expositions (Tafseer) of qur'anic verses well trained in Arabic? Can their interpretation of that verse be studied, understood, and trusted?

    MM: But surely your understanding is far from being sufficient. To understand it full well (or better), you have to ask why Muslims are no longer applying jizya on non Muslims?

    JS: I have already asked this question of muslims… in fact… very learned muslims… and they have all agreed that jizya will return with the reinstatement of shariah law in a worldwide califate (in conquered areas anyway)… so I would say I understand that verse very well… See my comment regarding the sharia law, the muslim brotherhood, and the worldwide caliphate … jizya is coming… just ask Morsi…

    Is this a signal of them leaving the religion? It seems to me you have not asked this question.

    JS: Which question have I not asked? The one about the jizia, or the one about the "leaving the religion?" I already know the answer to the first question and the second question never occurred to me. That's YOUR question. Why would I ask if it is a sign of muslims leaving the religion? I already know it's not a sign of them leaving their religion… see my comments above.

    Continued below…

    J Stillwater

    Jizya coming to Egypt…
    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world
    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world
    http://www.elbashayer.com/news-194250.html

  186. J_Stillwater says:

    Continued from above…

    @Muslim Man…

    You then state:

    MM: What is happening now is just the opposite. Millions and millions of non-Muslims work and live in Muslim countries. No jizya being applied on them, they just pay taxes as do Muslims. Children of non Muslim families are educated in the same schools as are Muslims children. Occassionally there are tensions, and some of the tensions can be bloody – but these are an exception rather than the norm.

    JS: Please post 5 "muslim" countries where this is happening and provide the demographic breakdowns to show us why you have reached the conclusions you stated above. Also, see my commend regarding the worldwide caliphate and shariah law. If a caliphate is ever revived, sharia law, and the jizya (part of shariah law) will also be revived, and it will be a VERY bad day for the people who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in muslim countries.

    With regard to your statement: "Occassionally there are tensions…," you appear to not have access to al jazeera or any other major news outlet. These "tensions" are far more than just tensions, and their regularity is far greater than you want to admit. These comments are either extremely naive, or you are practicing that islamic lying (taquia) I mentioned in an earlier post.

    Behold the carnage in today's headlines (Muslims fighting, killing, subduing and charging the Jizia… right now… today…):

    Jizya coming to Egypt…
    http://www.elbashayer.com/news-194250.html
    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world
    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world

    Muslims following the qur'an:
    http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/worldNews/~3/
    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_03_18/68816821/
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-195647
    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_04_29/73325980/
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/03/2012
    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_09_03/Car-bomb-goes-o
    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_09_25/Lutheran-church
    http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/10/
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/12/2012
    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_03_26/69677068/
    http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_04_06/70864717/
    http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20842225#s
    http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/

    Continued below….

    J Stillwater

  187. Demsci says:

    "Either Demsci – trying to Justify personal abuse – whilst maintain he is against it! "

    I caught that just now.

    It is the umptieth strawman-fallacy committed against me.
    I am in favor of letting personal abuse be and against protection of hurt feelings.

    But I understand that there are borders, like the place where to do it, on principle a place where people can "zap away" and I suppose that extreme cases of slander can be punishable by law.

  188. J_Stillwater says:

    Continue from above…

    @Muslim Man… you wrote above:

    MM: Now, you may want to tell me where I can find jizya being practiced in the Muslim world or where Muslims strike the neck of non-Muslims when they meet each other

    JS: I have never said that jizya was being practiced. I posted that the qur'an says it should be levied on non-muslims. Muslims are commanded to levy this tax… but, it is not the tax itself that concerns me… it is the INTENT of the tax that I find troubling. The intent of this tax is to show the conquered infidel their place of humiliation and submission, and show that their "muslim masters" are superior and "above" the lowly kafir. Evil is generated from the heart. The humiliation tax is an outward and fascist and supremacist expression of something that is commanded to be happening in the muslim's heart, and that is, seeing the kafir infidel as lower, humiliated. However, now that you've brought it up, there is a very good reason why you don't see this tax being levied on a large scale (Taliban, etc.). The reason this tax is not currently being levied is because it is a part of shariah law. There is no world-wide islamic caliphate and so there are no countries currently practicing shariah law. The goal of the muslim brotherhood is to bring a world-wide caliphate and reinstate shariah law, and Morsi has promised to bring back the jizya (see links below). In fact, his comment made a huge stink, and is still available in the original arabic at one of the links I've posted below. The reason why you see the Jizya being levied against indians in pakistan, by the Taliban, is because they see it as being loyal to what the qur'an teaches them.

    Referring to your "strike at their necks at length" comment, you stated:

    MM: These are not happening in this modern world, because we Muslims keep learning from and studying the Quran

    JS: In fact, these things are INDEED happening in the muslim world, but they are happening with roadside bombs, AK47's, shoulder launched grenades, sniper attacks, acid attacks, poisonings, gang rapes, street brawls, etc. (See the links below). The reason they are happening (unbelievably) in "this modern world" is because verses commanding muslims to "fight the infidel" appear in the qur'an, and your "qualified scholars" have "interpreted" the words "strike at their necks at length" to include striking at their necks, heads, chests, legs, arms, etc., with… bombs, ak47's, improvised explosive devices, shoulder launched grenades, suicide vests, sniper rounds, etc.

    continued below…

    J Stillwater

  189. J_Stillwater says:

    Continued from above…

    @Muslim Man…

    When you say:

    MM: "We muslims have something called "interpretation" or tafseer,"

    JS: You are saying that the qur'an contains commands that can be "changed" over time. This is a fallacy called "begging the question," because it assumes in its conclusion the very thing it seeks to prove (i.e. the qur'an's commands can be, or need to be "interpreted.") The qur'an calls itself a clear book, that has been preserved, and that it is written in heaven… so… how can the interpretation "change?" Didn't his companions follow his teachings? Didn't they know what he did? Don't you have a record of what they said and did? How can your scholars claim, 1400 years removed from the times of muhammad, that they know better than muhammad with regard to what these things mean? See, if the qur'an remains like it is, then somewhere down the road, it will once again be reinterpreted by someone's "rigorous thinking process" and these new "qualified scholars" will deem your present scholars not "rigorous" enough, or "too rigorous" or whatever the excuse will be, just like your present scholars are obviously deeming the scholars before them, and muslims will change the meaning again and this madness will continue. With regard to Tafseer, there are already very respected tafseer that have given comprehensive expositions on what the qur'an says AND means. In fact, zoutoni is always telling me how important tafseer is, and I concur with his claim. So, don't you see that this continual "changing" of the meaning of the qur'an actually leads to more problems than it solves? In one century a verse in the qur'an means one thing, and in the next century, it means something totally different, and the next century, it is changed back to what it meant in the first century. Is this any way to teach your children that allah is all-knowing and all-wise? If allah is all knowing… why couldn't he get it right the first time? Also, how in the world are islamic scholars going to reinterpret "humiliation tax?" Or making the infidel feel "subdued?" Morsi is reinstating the Jizya in the new "muslim brotherhood" egypt, because he knows it is what muslims are commanded to do (see links below). If your scholars are going to "interpret" that verse, they had better hurry up, because Morsi isn't waiting (see links below).

    You also state:

    MM: The same verse will remain the same, but its interpretation may change… As I stated in my previous response to you, the word "fight" is not necessarily interpreted as "war," it is also being translated as hard work.

    JS: It appears quite clear to me, when you follow the phrase "fight those" with the phrase "until THEY pay the jizya [Humiliation Tax] with submission, and feel themselves subdued" you kind of get the idea that "fight" is not being used to refer to "hard work." Unless of course subduing people and extorting a Humiliation Tax and making them feel subdued, is "hard work." I have a feeling it will take a bit more than hard work. It'll probably take… well… FIGHTING.

    Continued below…

    J Stillwater
    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world
    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world
    http://www.elbashayer.com/news-194250.html

  190. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… you wrote:

    MM wrote: Not even one dot is going to be removed from the Quran. It will remain as it is. However, we Muslims have something called "interpretation" or tafseer, the best of which is a product of ijtihad, which is a rigorous thinking process by qualified scholars – not by just a raw person like myself.

    JS: This is the second time you've made the distinction between a "raw person" like yourself, and "qualified scholars." This distinction is obviously deliberate. What you are saying here, is, "Unless a person is a 'qualified scholar' they cannot know what the qur'an means." However, today's "qualified scholars" obviously feel that yesterday's "qualified scholars" didn't get it quite right… Consider this: Where do "qualified scholars" come from? What "qualifies" a qualified scholar? Who qualifies the qualified scholar so that they are "qualified" to change the meaning of verses in your holy qur'an? What are the qualifications of the person who qualified the qualifier to authorize the "qualified scholar" to make changes to the meaning of the holy qur'an? Who qualifies that person, and, in turn, who qualified them? And who qualified that person? Do you see how this is totally circular reasoning? Did they consult you for your consensus on whether or not their qualifications "qualify" them to reinterpret the qur'an for YOU? Did they consult me? Why should you, or I, (or anyone) agree with their rulings? Why should I believe their rulings over those of the past that they are now "qualified" to "reinterpret?" Why should I believe them over what muhammad showed us with is very life and actions? It is all circular reasoning. muhammad is turning in his grave.

    Continued below…

    J Stillwater

  191. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… continued from above… in order to read both parts, please click my screen name and read both responses there in series (the last second part appears first).

    If we're defining "good" as non-muslims define it, in other words, "the absence of evil," then we cannot say there are "good" muslims (unless they are being disobedient to the commandments in the qur'an). We can say that muslims on do "beneficial things," and muslims do "reprehensible things" (both of which are commanded in the qur'an). Even serial killers are "good" to their own children. They may even be religious and give to charities, and dress up as a clown and bring happiness to children, as in the case of John Wayne Gacy, but these good deeds, in the presence of their evil deeds, restrain us from ever being able to call the serial killer good. It is not good deeds that are used to prove or disprove a person's righteousness or goodness or, in muhammad's or allah's case divine inspiration… it is the "absence" of evil deeds that proves or disproves someone's goodness. A serial killer is deemed "not good" because he murders innocent people in series. If we use the serial killer's definition of good, we will be in agreement with his mass murdering, because he sees this as good. If we use the normal definition of good, and yet, look only at the serial killer's "beneficial acts," we will have the picture of an angel, and may be tempted to follow him into his killing room… it is not until we look at his evil deeds that we see him for what he is and be warned away from following him. In the case of muhammad, it is the presence of his evil deeds which show us his true character, and proves for us that he is not a prophet of god, for if he were, we would see god's character in him. It is his brutality, sexual escapades, lack of restraint and lack of compassion that is our indication he was not receiving his revelations from god, and therefore it must be concluded that islam is false. It is the emulation of these reprehensible behaviors that makes muslims incapable of being "good," as illustrated by the chants being heard in otherwise peaceful european neighborhoods: "Obama, Obama, we are all Osama."

    J Stillwater

  192. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… this will be a response in two parts… please click on my screen name and you can read them both in series (the last response will be listed first)…

    I believe there is a sharp distinction between "faithful" and "good." This is because the definition of "faithful" is always the same (i.e. a loyal, constant, and steadfast adherence to a defined set of ideals). However the definition of "good" changes based on who is defining the term.

    A faithful muslim is a muslim who does all… all… the things that muhammad practiced and therefore called good (halal). A faithful muslim is a muslim who loyally, constantly and steadfastly follows the teachings of the qur'an and the sunnah (practices) of their prophet…

    If a muslim, for example, doesn't fight the kafir, and yet prays the necessary number of times a day, he is not a faithful muslim, because he is disobeying the verses in the qur'an which command muslims to fight non-believers (see Qur'an 9:29). At the same time, if a muslim fights the kafir, but doesn't perform the duty of zakat, he is not a faithful muslim. Or, if a muslim believes in jinns, but doesn't believe that muhammad actually spoke with gabriel, he is not a faithful muslim. If a muslim believes hating the jews, and also sexually violating female captives are both acceptable things… he is a faithful muslim (because muhammad did both of these things). If a muslim bows to mecca to pray, but will not throw stones at an adulterer/adulteress to stone her to death… he is not a faithful muslim (because muslims are commanded to stone the adulterer/adulteress). If a muslim believes someone should be assassinated for speaking against muhammad, and that sex with 9-year-old girls is acceptable, he is a faithful muslim (because muhammad practiced both of these acts).

    So, again, with regard to who is a "faithful muslim," I have already pointed out that a "faithful muslim" does "what muhammad does." It is a complete package (see my post regarding the fallacy of "insufficient sample"). In the case of “good” vs “evil,” "good" has a unique definition in islam, because in islam, "good" includes many things (made halal or "good" by muhammad himself) that non-muslims have judged to be evil and reprehensible (i.e. violating the human rights of others, forced enslavement of other human beings, taxing to humiliate, making adoption illegal, ritual animal slaughter, sexual slavery, looting the belongings of others, Jew hating, mass killing, religious wars, revenge killings, political assassinations, child sex, etc., which were all practiced and made "good" by muhammad). Following the unique definition of “good” just given, a “faithful” muslim (completely loyal and obedient to the qur'an) is a “good” muslim.

    Continued below

    J Stillwater

  193. zitouni says:

    Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizia [Humiliation Tax] with submission, and feel themselves subdued. [Qur'an 9: 29]

    I have already explained this verse , but Kafirs do not want to stop being stupid . This is the background which preceded the revealation of verse 9: 29 .

    Prophet sent delegation of Muslims to Arab christian tribe once they got there they were killed in cold blood . when news reached Muslims , the prophet sent an army of 3000 men to punish the perpetrators what Muslims did not know that Byzantine has joined christian tribe by sending 10 of thousand of troops making them to declare open war against Muslims. they killed prophet first cousin , prophets adopted son and many more Muslims. The Muslims withdrew to Medina because it was impossible to continue fighting super power nation with just 3000 men. After few weeks traders coming back from Syria reported to the prophet that they saw Byzantine military ships arriving to Syrian port full of soldiers so it was in that days verse 9 : 29 was revealed urging Muslims to go and fight Byzantinians who were the first to start the war againt Muslims.

  194. Ali Sina says:

    “It would be a sight and a treat to see him dismissing the arguments of Muslims who are in favor of the deathpenalty for Islam-apostasy.”

    Nah! Aminriadh will never go against the Quran. He is just deceiving us, which is also an Islamic practice. He is a good Muslim.

  195. rinku says:

    i think you should leave the relationship and start living with your family who really care for you.muslims are never taught every humanbeing is same.but they consider themselves as superior which is wrong.i can understand you sister in me you may find a friend.so if you need anyhelp as a brother i will help u..dont worry god has shown you the direction.you can message me if you like at [email protected]
    we are all with u sister….

  196. zitouni says:

    zitouni… first, I have checked your claim and I TOTALLY agree with you that whoever wrote that article added words to the end of that quote from Bukhari and I make no excuses for the misrepresentation of Bukhari. it is inexcusable.

    If I were you I would reread all Mohameds biography from reliable sources and throw every idea about Mohamed until I finish reading Sira because I proved to you anti Islamic websites cannot be trusted .

    Muhammad's deeds stand on their own as a testimony against him without us having to add anything to the story. Let's remove Juwariya from the story for a moment. does it make the accounts you read on that page, the corrected accounts, any less sickening?

    You have built up your opinion about Mohamed by reading un reliable account from people who have no shame of changing hadiths .

    No. Does the fact that Banu Mustaliq is arab, and not jewish, change the monstrous behavior of your prophet? No.

    Read first why Mohamed had to fight that tribe

    tribe Banu Mustaliq was preparing to go launch an attack on Madinah, but the Muslims caught wind of their plan and quickly raised a defense force of 700 men who marched forward to the strategic point of Al-Marisa'. The Muslim army then sent a message to Banu Mustaliq to accept Islam, and in doing so abandon their hostilities and continue to live in peace and security in their own land. Instead of accepting this offer Banu Mustalaq declared war and shot one of the Muslim soldiers with an arrow, at which point wild fighting broke out.

    allah's "prophet" allowed by having a fire stick twirled into the flesh of his chest until Kinanah "almost expired" in order for muhammad to extract where the treasure was hidden. Ask yourself, why didn't the "all knowing" and "most merciful" allah just tell muhammad where this man hid his treasure so he didn't have to spend his last moments on earth in HORRIBLE AGONY? HELLO??? Not only is muhammad a beast, but allah is obviously NOT all knowing. Another of muhammad's lies. All-knowing beings KNOW where you hide your treasure.

    I do not believe this story took place . Ibn Ishaq was not always right when he recorded biography of the prophet . This incident contradicts what mohamed said about tortured with fire .Ibn Abbas said he heard prophet saying do not torture with fire because it is Allah way to torture kafirs in day of judgement . You either hadith was false or Ibn Ishaq was . I will give priority to hadiths than Sira.

    Muhammad's rapes have been dealt with at length on other sites, so it is not necessary here to speak of safiya.

    No rape took place . I have shown you countless hadiths where prophet recomended the good treatment of prisoners of war so how could he or the rest of Muslims rape captured women
    it just does not sense to me

    What I will mention here, however, is the fact muslims say muhammad married her right away, without waiting the mandatory and commanded 3 menstruation periods (again muhammad, allah's partner, changed the rules to suit himself). This was a blatant violation by your prophet, of the very command he said he received from allah. Your prophet didn't even obey your prophet, so why should you, and why should I?

    Safiya did observe her Iddah because it says when they reached Medina she went to live with an Ansari family and not with Mohamed until her iddah period was over then she moved in with Mohamed

  197. Demsci says:

    "But then, how do you react to those Muslims who are in favor of this? "
    By dismissing their arguments."

    Wow! that would be great! Aminriadh is very good and experienced and also very stern in dismissing.

    It would be a sight and a treat to see him dismissing the arguments of Muslims who are in favor of the deathpenalty for Islam-apostasy.

    And according to surveys there are hundreds of Millions of those. And on MEMRI-TV we have seen quite a few learned Imams advocating it. In Iran there are among the ayatollahs also many in favor of this deathpenalty.

    In Somalia and Saudi Arabia and even in Tunisia there were cases reported of it being executed. This sort of thing is routinely reported by Jihad Watch and ReligionOf Peace. And although these sites are biased I suppose, at the same time it is hard to refute the evidence and the sources.

  198. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater,

    Not even one dot is going to be removed from the Quran. It will remain as it is. However, we Muslims have something called "interpretation" or tafseer, the best of which is a product of ijtihad, which is a rigorous thinking process by qualified scholars – not by just a raw person like myself.

    The same verse will remain the same, but its interpretation may change. As I stated in my previous response to you, the word "fight" is not necessarily interpreted as "war," it is also being translated as hard work.

    Now, you may want to tell me where I can find jizya being practiced in the Muslim world, or where Muslims strike the neck of non-Muslims when they meet each other. These are not happening in this modern world, because we Muslims keep learning from and studying the Quran.

    What is happening now is just the opposite. Millions and millions of non-Muslims work and live in Muslim countries. No jizya being applied on them, they just pay taxes as do Muslims. Children of non Muslim families are educated in the same schools as are Muslims children. Occassionally there are tensions, and some of the tensions can be bloody – but these are an exception rather than the norm.

    J Stillwater, probably you have understood the verse correctly from the language perspective … I say probably, because I am not well trained in Arabic. But surely your understanding is far from being sufficient. To understand it full well (or better), you have to ask why Muslims are no longer applying jizya on non Muslims? Is this a signal of them leaving the religion? It seems to me you have not asked this question.

    Like you I will also shiver if I something like the verse you quoted is read to me. But unlike you, I will try to understand why it is like that. I will investigate the context. Consult with the scholars. Check with people in the street. These are what you may consider doing in order to arrive at a better understanding of the Quran.

    But you have to do it in an honest manner. Learn about the Quran and Muslims with no preconceived ideas and suspicion such as: "don't expect Muslims to be honest"' "Muslims are liars" "Islam is a cult" — these are non starters if you want to have a meaningful dialogue. These are insults and the Muslims may consider reciprocating, if they don't have enough patience.

  199. J_Stillwater says:

    @zitouni… regarding your comments above, please tell me what this following verse means, and why I and other non-muslims should consider it anything other than hate speech telling muslims to fight, kill, subdue and humiliate non-muslims…

    "Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizia [Humiliation Tax] with submission, and feel themselves subdued. [Qur'an 9: 29]

    Please correct me if if this verse is not telling muslims to fight, kill, subdue, and humiliate non-muslims… Please help me see why this verse is not the muslim hate speech it appears to be.

    Please feel free to use any islamic scholars and muslim experts you feel necessary to help you explain your answer.

    J Stillwater

  200. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… your accusation that Muslim Man is actually Mr. Sina, is another of your favorite logical fallacies… it is a fallacy of misdirection called "poisoning the well."

    In the "poisoning the well" fallacy, instead of answering the logic of the opponent, you make accusations and create "conspiracy" scenarios that try to get the reader or listener to become distracted from the logic of your opponent. In this case, just the fact that you've used this fallacy is a veiled admission that the logic being offered to Muslim Man in response to his questions and comments, is too powerful for you to counter with your logic, so you must instead "poison the well" and try to get the reader to become distracted by some concocted "conspiracy theory" about Mr. Sina posing as Muslim Man.

    What you fail to realize… even if Muslim Man is a made-up visitor… and the comments are not genuine… the answers to the comments ARE genuine… because they ARE coming from real people, and they ARE using clear reasoning.

    Again.. what is always important in a discussion is the strength of the reasoning, and not all the little side fallacies you continue to bring into the discussion.

    Remember, no matter WHO Muslim Man turns out to be, either a real person, or an invention, it is the ANSWERS to the questions and comments that are important, because ANYBODY can ask the questions, but only those who are on the side of truth can logically answer them.

    J Stillwater

  201. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… Do you think the islamic scholars you've mentioned, in their reconsideration of the halal/haram issues, will agree on the removal of the verse from the qur'an that states:

    "Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizia [Humiliation Tax] with submission, and feel themselves subdued. [Qur'an 9: 29]

    Because if that verse, and verses like it, stay in the qur'an, all those things you say I'd "be amazed" by, won't make muslims any less of a threat to their "infidel," "kafir" neighbors. As a non-muslim, I'm most concerned with that islamic "progress" which removes this qur'anic hate speech commanding muslims to be a real and continuous threat to my life, my liberty, my human dignity and my human rights. No amount of consultation with "experts from various scientific disciplines" is going to make muslims any less of a threat to me and my non-muslim neighbors as long as the qur'an tells muslims to fight, kill, or subdue and humiliate us.

    As I'm sure you're aware, if you, and muslims in general, started being honest about your intentions, and, instead of trying to sell us this fantasy about how peaceful muslims are, just come out and say that it is your goal, (because the qur'an makes it your goal), by either aggression or false offers of peace, to take over every "kafir" nation and subdue the infidel/kafir until they either are killed, converted to islam, or subdued and forced to pay a "humiliation tax" to their new muslim masters… it is HIGHLY doubtful that any of these "experts from various scientific disciplines" would participate in these "amazing" discussions you've mentioned. But muslims will not be honest and forthright. And this lack of honesty and transparency on the part of muslims, supports the theory that you have hostile intentions. Muslims are doing the same thing you've always done… you smile in the face of the host country and swear by allah you mean them no harm, and at the same time, behind your back is your qur'an, with your crossed fingers between the pages that contain the command to conquer the host country and violate the human rights of its people. Muslim Man, if I've misunderstood these qur'anic verses that sound to me like racist hate speech, please explain to me why this assessment is not accurate. (while you're thinking about your response, please try to imagine how you would feel if you were on the receiving end of the verse quoted above. Would you feel like that verse was coming from a religion of peace?)

    J Stillwater

  202. J_Stillwater says:

    zitouni… first, I have checked your claim and I TOTALLY agree with you that whoever wrote that article added words to the end of that quote from Bukhari and I make no excuses for the misrepresentation of Bukhari. it is inexcusable. Muhammad's deeds stand on their own as a testimony against him without us having to add anything to the story.

    Let's remove Juwariya from the story for a moment. does it make the accounts you read on that page, the corrected accounts, any less sickening? No. Does the fact that Banu Mustaliq is arab, and not jewish, change the monstrous behavior of your prophet? No.

    allah's "prophet" allowed Al-Zubayr to torture Kinanah by having a fire stick twirled into the flesh of his chest until Kinanah "almost expired" in order for muhammad to extract where the treasure was hidden. Ask yourself, why didn't the "all knowing" and "most merciful" allah just tell muhammad where this man hid his treasure so he didn't have to spend his last moments on earth in HORRIBLE AGONY? HELLO??? Not only is muhammad a beast, but allah is obviously NOT all knowing. Another of muhammad's lies. All-knowing beings KNOW where you hide your treasure.

    Muhammad's rapes have been dealt with at length on other sites, so it is not necessary here to speak of safiya. What I will mention here, however, is the fact muslims say muhammad married her right away, without waiting the mandatory and commanded 3 menstruation periods (again muhammad, allah's partner, changed the rules to suit himself). This was a blatant violation by your prophet, of the very command he said he received from allah. Your prophet didn't even obey your prophet, so why should you, and why should I?

    J Stillwater

  203. zitouni says:

    If not for rape why your Prophet want that girl Juwairiya.

    Do yourself favor read dummy her story then come back to discuss it with me

  204. zitouni says:

    What kind of doll drum argument you are advancing my dear friend , can the prophet attack innocent people ,

    in anoyjer dumb fucck idiot . Go and read about Banu Mustaliq dummy before you say there were innocent

    Where is Medina and where was ,Syria ,Persia,turkey ,Spain ,did the people of these countries attacked the then Muslims of Medina.

    Dumb fucck . Muslims did not fight people of Syria , Turkey and Spain . They had fight with Byzantine which used to ocupy those countries . Byzantinians started war against Muslim and killed prophet first cousin , prophets adopted son and many Muslims. As Persia did you know dummy that Persians used to ocupy all eastern part of Arabia so Muslims just kicked out from their land , but Persian instead to realise that they were wrong they contrattacked and took what they have lost so Muslims returned , but with different objective is to destroy barbarians regime of Persia and so they did .

    Whether Jesus or Buddha attacked any people or order his follower to attack other people.

    Jesus or Bufda were not political or military leaders . Prophet Muhamed he acted like them when he was in Mecca , but once he became leader he had to take arms and defend his nation

    For our belief prophet mean's saintly person and lives in constant awareness of God conscience,he can't advocate violence ,he sacrifice his own life for his belief ,example,

    Dumb fucck. How about Moses was niot he prophet too and what did he do dummy read OT idiot

    Socrates ,Saint Peter,Jesus or else his whole life sacrifices for human guidance in non-violence and in self-less service to humans ,like Buddha and Mother Teressa.

    Red above

    Even your prophet would have claimed himself as barbarian ,history wouldn't have bothered about him ,but his act's were chieftain's of barbarians but want history to remember him as Prophet

    I do not think you know the definition of barbarians

    ,to which he is not eligible even marginally.Lastly l want you to explain us all, what is your definition of the term "Prophet".

    Muhamed was more than a prophet

  205. guest says:

    Evil deceiver hiding in his arab book, deceiving others who don't understand arab language. Claiming islam is peace and soon but saying and discriminating others/unbelievers as nazis/ unclean. Sick. You are hiding your rotten and evil mind in that white long dress you use, but it cant hide your crazy mind that you able to and permitt raping to 9 yo girl.

  206. Joe says:

    So true Abid,

    knowledge vs perception or belief..

    the belief that the vioces in Mo's head are anything other than madiness is just a belief..
    the belief that the sun sets in a murky pool of water is just a belief which is madiness in todays world
    the belief that drinking camels piss is good for you.. jury still out on that one 🙂

  207. Joe says:

    Sanity is a wonderful thing.. thankfully this young girl found hers before she wasted her life and the lives of others..

    the taliban who sent here do not care about her, just their own sense of power!

    pray for more sanity 🙂

  208. Joe says:

    Shirk maybe an islamic term, but the concept of making yourself a god is pretty much universal..

    there is only one God and that God is our judge.. by your actions you put yourself above God.. fact is we all die and we all face our creator.. I am trying to be as conscious and truthful as possible.. you are on your own 'mystic'? journey

  209. aminthemystic says:

    "The idea spread and now is shared by millions. "

    huh?

    No it isn't and neither are YOU the catalyst.

    – – –

    it is the same way you promote your book. . .

    Which NO ONE even bothered to print.

    Or even wants to read!

    – – –

    Sonny – you have ego problems

    – – –

    People here mostly don't come because of you . . .

    ALL religions have their haters and opponents. . .

    They come because of their own backgrounds.

    – – –

    This is why – I have YET to come across ANYONE willing to to about your work. . .

    EVEN your disciples avoid it.

  210. Ali Sina says:

    I am not any leader of any country and have no clout in any government. I am an individual and my views are my two cents contribution to this debate. No one is taking lead from me and I am in no position of decision making. However, I believe in the power of ideas. Fifteen years ago I throw this idea that the problem with Islam is not the “radical Islam” there is no such thing as radical Islam or moderate Islam. As Erdogan later confirmed, Islam is Islam and that is it. The problem is Islam itself. This was just an idea from a single man with no power and no political standing. The idea spread and now is shared by millions. I throw in my ideas, just as you do and everyone else does. If an ideas is convincing more people will adopt it until it becomes the idea of the majority. If it is not convincing, it will be ignored.

  211. Ali Sina says:

    “Because the hadith and the sira are replete with praise for honesty and positive track record of the Prophet, which make it extremely difficult for people to believe that the Prophet did heinous things.”

    Islam is a cult. You should see how cultist praise their leader. I have made a good research into cults and cultic mentality and shown how Islam fits into that category. I invite you to read my book. It should be out very soon. Muslims see Muhammad through a tainted glass. I help them see him without it. Once you see him under the clear light his mystery will be removed and you can no longer be fooled.

    As for the war in Iraq, I agreed with it. The only part that I did not agree was staying to bring democracy to a people who a) have no understanding of it, b0 have no desire for it and c) have no gratitude. The objective of the war was accomplished when Saddam was defeated. At that point Americans should have come back home and let the Iraqis sort out their differences. They would have come to an amicable agreement if America was not there must sooner.

    I’d say the same thing about Afghanistan or any country that poses a threat to America. It is not for Americans to build other nations. Their responsibility ends in defending their interests and removing the threats.

  212. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… look up the fallacy called: "fallacy of insufficient sample." Your post above, along with other posts you've made here commit this fallacy. Here's why:

    If you ask me a question about things you do that obey the qur'an, and then ask me if you're "obeying the prophet" it assumes that the small sample of things you've mentioned are "all" that is required to be considered "obeying the prophet." Here's why this is a fallacy: because you and I know, that in order to be considered a person who is "obeying" the prophet, you must be obeying the prophet in the entire set of commands, and not just in a select "sample" of those commands. To obey only a set of the commands, and not all, actually makes you kufar. Here's an example: If you say you don't charge interest, and yet, you also secretly are afraid to fight the infidel, then you are disobeying the prophet, because obedience to the prophet includes all the things which the prophet has commanded you to do. Do you see this distinction?

    If you say you do one, or two things out of hundreds that have been commanded by your prophet, and then, try to imply you are being obedient… it may appear you are correct, unless we study the whole set from which this "sample" of commandments is taken. Once we do, we will now have the correct number of commandments, in "addition" to the sample you have given, and only with this complete set of commandments, and a close study of your compliance to them, can we answer the question about your obedience or disobedience to the prophet. I'm waiting for the answer to my question from the earlier post.

    J Stillwater

  213. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… is there a particular reason you didn't answer the direct question I asked you in my post above? Here it is again (could you answer it for me?):

    You stated: "I know that slaughtering people who disagree with you is bad." muhammad slaughtered people for disagreeing with him… by the thousands (and said it was allah's idea)… and the qur'an teaches muslims to fight and kill unbelievers… are you willing to admit that muhammad did "bad" things and that allah in the qur'an commands "bad" things? If so, why are you a muslim?

    Just a quick yes or no, and maybe an explanation of your answer?

    J Stillwater

  214. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, you said everyone believed … But never has this belief been substantiated. Until now. And actually the world in general did not believe it, as it was shown by the UN investigators.

    Now it is quite apparent that you ended up operating on the basis of unsubstantiated belief. And this unproven belief, probably has led to victimization of more than one million innocent souls.

    Basically, by saying what you have said you are painting a picture of yourself which looks so similar to the ugly picture of the Prophet you have painted. That ugly picture is basically your picture. But, certainly it is not the picture of the Prophet. Why?

    Because the hadith and the sira are replete with praise for honesty and positive track record of the Prophet, which make it extremely difficult for people to believe that the Prophet did heinous things.

    The situation is the other way around with regard to the war decision makers. The President was reported that he smoked pot when he was in high school. One of the war male policy makers was involved in extra marital affair with his female staff and gave her an unjustified amount of salary, then he had to step down from his position as president of the world's largest development bank. Just recently, one of the generals has to withdraw from his position as chief of the intelligence body of the US, also because of extra marital affair. As you know, extra marital affair is about cheating. Sorry, this is not about ad hominem attack, but I am sure you can appreciate that the credential of the persons may give us ideas of the kind and quality of decisions they make.

    What's your reaction?

  215. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    Who is this? Any president of any country ? Any army chief ? Any sort of mafia king ? Any leader of any army? Any one from any governance ? Any one having destructive weapons ?

    Crush ?! Paralyze ?! Kill?! "We" should do this !.. "We" should be doing this !! Where are these "We" ?

    Oh Please ! Let me inform if anything is happening and I don't know !

  216. Demsci says:

    But dismissing-denying-denigrating-debunking opposing views is what YOU do all the time!!!

    And want/ intend to do!!! By misusing logical methods, but exempting your own holy texts because THEY are a result of DIVINE intervention!

    Remember; You said that it the Buraq-story was perfectly possible, but whenever Ali Sina makes a much less extraordinary claim, you are all over him, like a cheap suit!

  217. Sakat says:

    If not for rape why your Prophet want that girl Juwairiya.

  218. Sakat says:

    What kind of doll drum argument you are advancing my dear friend , can the prophet attack innocent people ,even Chengez Khan used to give warning before attacking his enemy, off course he was not the prophet.Where is Medina and where was ,Syria ,Persia,turkey ,Spain ,did the people of these countries attacked the then Muslims of Medina.Whether Jesus or Buddha attacked any people or order his follower to attack other people. For our belief prophet mean's saintly person and lives in constant awareness of God conscience,he can't advocate violence ,he sacrifice his own life for his belief ,example,Socrates ,Saint Peter,Jesus or else his whole life sacrifices for human guidance in non-violence and in self-less service to humans ,like Buddha and Mother Teressa. Even your prophet would have claimed himself as barbarian ,history wouldn't have bothered about him ,but his act's were chieftain's of barbarians but want history to remember him as Prophet ,to which he is not eligible even marginally.Lastly l want you to explain us all, what is your definition of the term "Prophet".

  219. zitouni says:

    Joe said : proof? what is war in Lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, afghanistan, somalia, egypt, iraq, phillipines, burma, thaitland, nigeria, achia and too many countries to list..ALL MUSLIM..
    DERR and you want proof? does your mumy wipe your bum for you too?
    What are you trying to say by listing all these countries ? I do not get you . If you mean there is war going on there I did not say otherwise . If you want to say there is slave trade going on there then you have to prove it and also prove that scholars today are sanctioning this act . I do not know what the hekll is wrong with kafirs they are so dumb .

  220. Joe says:

    @zitouni

    proof? what is war in Lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, afghanistan, somalia, egypt, iraq, phillipines, burma, thaitland, nigeria, achia and too many countries to list..ALL MUSLIM.. DERR and you want proof? does your mumy wipe your bum for you too?

  221. Ali Sina says:

    Dear Muslim Man.

    Yes I know bombing means killing Children and innocent people. But when we wage a war the only thing that matters is our survival. The allies carpet bombed Berlin. Many innocent children were killed. But that bombing resulted in the fall of the German army and the defeat of the Nazis, More lives would have been lost if Berlin was not bombed.

    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed and tens of thousands of innocent people including children were killed. But it stopped the war. Without it the war would have continued for many more years and millions more would have been killed. The Japanese were not going to end the war. They had started it and they were sure that they are going to win. They believed Japan is protected by divine forces and no one will be able to defeat it. They had some tales to back up that belief. They had to be demoralized. They had to be shown wrong and taste the defeat. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing was like a cold bucket of water that jolted them to reality.

    Muslims have the same religious conviction that Allah will make them victorious. They have several verses of the Quran to bolster their faith. They have “divine” confirmation that even though they are weaker, Allah will render them victorious. That is a dangerous belief. They need to be awakened. I have said it many time. If Muslims enter in a war with the West, the only way to end it fast is to crush their faith and assurance that Allah will make them victorious. This means giving them a fast and blowing defeat. This will result in the death of many innocent children but it will save the lives of many more. I don’t believe in tit for tat. We must crush them in such a way that they cannot continue the war. The idea is to paralyze them. We don’t want to kill them. We want to save them and to do so you have to end their ability to wage war.

    If you don’t want that to happen, I suggest you leave Islam and encourage others to do the same. A weakened Islam will not start the jihad. If you really care about the lives of the people I urge you to get out of this cult of hate and join the rest of humanity. After all Islam is not from God. It is from Devil and I see no reason any good human would want to be part of a religion invented by a sociopath. Muhammad was no holy man. He was a truly evil person. No one hates you or me. This insanity is originated by Muhammad. So far it has cost the lives of hundreds of millions and more will perish because of it. But it is only an insanity.

    The world is ready to embrace us. They don’t even know that Muslims are at war with them and want to kill them. They see what Muslims do but they are in denial. This denial will eventually end and the retaliation will begin. It is up you people like you and I to stop this madness. The enemy is Islam. Islam will bring the destruction of Muslims. If you care about the lives of Muslims, get them out of Islam.

  222. Ali Sina says:

    I already told you my take. At the moment everyone believed that Saddam had WMD. His refusal to cooperate gave more strength to that belief. I believe he had them and send them to Syria. Now if no WMD is fond in Syria, and we may not know this soon, even after the fall of Asad. then we can conclude the intelligence was wrong. IN any case that brute had to go and I am happy he was hanged.

  223. Ali Sina says:

    “You will be amazed to observe those people who live just a little above the poverty line go to the mosque to pay their alms.”

    I have no doubt of that. I have seen people who can barely provide for their family give to the filthy mullahs happily. This is brainwashing. The stupidity of these people does not impress me. I feel sorry for these fools. They could use that money for their family but give it to the mullahs to use, live in luxury and to spend it for building mosques, madrassahs, and financing jihad. Zakat is paid out of piety (read stupidity) and is spent for evil causes.

    ” I do not deny there are cases where zakat or sadaqah money embezzled by the committee, but I am confident that this represents a negligible proportion.”
    How do you know? When a person is a thief he is a thief. The mullahs of Iran have stolen billions of dollars each. And those thefts are documented and you can find them on the Internet.

    It is immoral to support this evil religion even with a dime. Will you support the Nazi party? Islam is worse than the Nazi party. You can’t pretend to be an innocent person when you finance an evil cause like Islam.

    “Go to and live with the Muslims, especially with the poorest of them.”
    I have no doubt that most Muslims are sincere people. I remember my own grandmother who was the best human I even came to know. She never missed a prayer, and read the Quran even though she never knew what she was reading. The goodness of ignorant Muslims does not make Islam a good religion. Muhammad was a terrorist and a very evil man. Please do not confuse these two things.

  224. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, I suggest you experience zakat yourself. Consider having first hand experience. You will be amazed to observe those people who live just a little above the poverty line go to the mosque to pay their alms. I do not deny there are cases where zakat or sadaqah money embezzled by the committee, but I am confident that this represents a negligible proportion.

    You really have to experience Islam. Why? Because your cause is to destroy Islam, which is very dangerous, and you also have ideas of sending Muslims to the stone age by bombing them, i.e. by killing them. You are like saying that you want to save the world by destroying one-third of humanity. You feel you are smart. The people whom you call terrorist also feel they are smart. Yet your ideas and their ideas are dangerous ideas, both for humanity and for both of you. I am taking this very seriously.

    If you are a US citizen, you have all the opportunities to travel the world. Don't just stay in your library studying sirah, hadith and Quran. Go to and live with the Muslims, especially with the poorest of them. You speak Persian, then you can go Afghanistan, to Tajikistan – if you don't want to visit Iran. Since you speak English, go to Malaysia, go to Indonesia — and see and feel for yourself how Muslims in these countries live peacefully and many if not most of them believe that they are beginning to practice Islam in their lives. Consider Turkey as well. Come to these communities with no preconceived ideas, with no prejudice. Meet and talk with local scholars and people in the street.

    Please do not consider this post as ad hominem attack. I am just giving you a suggestion hoping that you will consider revising the way you look at Muslims and Islam. Why? Because you have a dangerous idea.

  225. Sakat says:

    Stupid mind is Savior of we all human's ,don't go after our predecessor,and especially this Mohammed ,he was deprived of basic reasoning faculty( virtually an animal and not the decedents of Adam and Eve). Please faith in your mind ,this is what demonstrated by that lady."Cuddo".to you babe.

  226. Sakat says:

    This is genuine thinking on the part of that girl,perhaps she may be Newton's niece in her earlier incarnation.

  227. Loki says:

    "You can't blame ummah for response to the situation which disturb their emotional and intellectual stability"

    I certainly can and I am.If a group's emotional balance is so fickle,that they start killing people who make movies,draw cartoons or write books they don't agree with,I blame the faith that has indoctrinated them to be such heathens.

    Christ is made fun of in numerous movies,sitcoms,stand-ups.Devout christians wince,but don't burn down the production house or kill the comedian.Hindu Gods are made fun of by Hindus themselves.
    Muhammad will be made fun of,more and more regularly,and muslims 'have to' withstand that peacefully,even if they don't like it.If they behave like barbarians and turn violent,such things will continue until there are award ceremonies on "Joke of the year on Muhammad".Non-muslims are not responsible if Islam doesn't give muslims a sense of humor.

    Don't like a film,don't watch it.Don't like a book,don't read it.Write a critical review,peacefully demonstrate,file lawsuits if you can.But turn violent,and you'll get more of the same.And they'll keep coming until you learn to behave.

  228. CGW says:

    Muslims slaughtered 80 million Hindus in the conquest of India:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindu

  229. Truth Hurts says:

    Khalida Akhtar, a 20-year-old Taliban suicide bomber, decided at the last minute not to blow herself up at the main train station in the capitol of Pakistan because she remembered that she would have to deal with a bunch of virgin guys in heaven, local authorities say.
    Ms. Akhtar, who was dressed in a head-to-toe burqa and strapped with explosives, was seen just hours ago running and screaming through the Islamabad Railway Station before she was arrested by police. The young woman realized that she would have 72 virgins on her hands if she sacrificed her earthly life, and apparently the thought made her so sick to her stomach that she decided to pull the plug on the operation & give herself up to the authorities, police told reporters.
    In a statement Akhtar explained her decision. I had actually never stopped before to think about the reward I would receive for my sacrifice, Unlike my brother, I âm actually not a fan of virgins. I am supposed to give my life for a bunch of guys that dont know anything about the female body or how to please a woman? She would have sacrificed herself if she could trade those 72 virgins for two experienced guys, a masseuse, a butler, and a chef.

  230. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, based on your info I can conclude that in fact there has never been WMD — neither in Iraq nor in Syria. I remember watching TV showing a UN investigator saying in a very diplomatic way that no WMD was found in Iraq. The world was well informed about this. Yet the invasion took place. What's your take on this?

  231. aminthemystic says:

    One awaits the reply with bated breath. . . knowing full well what the answer will be.

    Been there, heard it and answered it. Counter-argument? No.

    This he learned from "Julia". . . and he disgusting swearing he allowed.

    When you cannot answer. Just repeat!

  232. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, so you also wanted to bomb and eliminate Muslims physically? I am sure you know that it will involve killing children and other innocent civilians. You have been saying that your quest is to destroy Islam, which has nothing to do with Muslim. Now you also want to kill Muslims. I thought you were a peaceful person ……

  233. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, there is an instruction in Quran to avoid usury in our business dealings because usury is bad. I do avoid usury. Am I obeying or disobeying the Quran?

    The Prophet said that Muslims should be good to their neighbors. I have a Christian neighbor, and a few days ago I wished him a happy christmas. I hope you agree with me that wishing a merry christmas to a Christian neighbor is a good thing to do. Am I obeying or disobeying the Prophet?

  234. aminthemystic says:

    Another opening.

  235. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, in Islam we have the concept of ijtihad which is a rigorous process of law forming. This process may produce alternative interpretations of those verses and may have saved lives. I believe you have to recognize this.

  236. aminthemystic says:

    "We don't know at what time Saddam decided to ship his WMD to Syria."

    It is NOT known whether Saddam had them or not.

    About EVERY major nation on Earth has WMDs.

    Think about it. . . it is NOT that hard to develop them.

    One guess who probably has most? And has in the past caused the most number of death by their use . . . .!

    – – –

    "The fact is that they are not in Syria and this is one of the major sources of concern for the world who wants Asad go away but fear that those WMD fall in the hands of the al Qaida. "

    He contradicts himself.

    Earlier he said – Assad had them.

    Now it is a fact he doesn't?

    – – –

    It is all going downhill!

  237. aminthemystic says:

    " Most Muslims are also ignorant of their religion. "

    Just because YOU were ignorant – that doesn't mean others are too.

    – – –

    "No it is not my personal experience. "

    Read his comment.

    There is NOT a shred of evidence given.

    But it isn' his experience. I agree.

    It is his HATE. . . . and lies.

    – – –

    Such views are common to acquire – the state he is in.

    This emotion has overtaken him to the extent – that his rationality has suffered.

    – – –

    This is what happened to people like Hitler and they did

    The missing piece. It is only certain amount you can blame on genes, biology and chemistry. . .

    Then there is the "upbringing" . . . Islam is JUST an excuse.

    That is why he wants to remove it at all costs.

  238. Ali Sina says:

    We don’t know at what time Saddam decided to ship his WMD to Syria. The fact is that they are not in Syria and this is one of the major sources of concern for the world who wants Asad go away but fear that those WMD fall in the hands of the al Qaida.

  239. aminthemystic says:

    "No it is not baseless lies. It is a fact. Just Google Poverty in Iran and se…"

    If it is a FACT you learned . .. then the ADVICE should NOT be to Google.

    As that shift the BURDEN of PROOF!

    You have read it . . . YOU give the reasoning and evidence.

    Else you are lying.

  240. aminthemystic says:

    "Just Google Poverty in Iran and see what you find. "

    "It is a fact. Just Google Poverty in Iran and see"

    Huh? Really?

    No WONDER your disciples advocate this . . . If the master is at it.

    Why doesn't all academia just stop. . . "Oh, I believe in in a diamond shaped Earth"

    Proof?

    Just Google and see.

    – – –

    This is how your book and posts here come about . . . badly researched on the net. Actual resources never checked.

    Next post about your blog.

    This is why I pointed out. . . you create the impression of these reports . . . . quick Google.

    Exact same quote is used by others . . . same this you copy and paste.

    Deception? Yes.

    – – –

    And four year old NEWSPAPER reports. . . then don't CUT it.

    – – –

    About 46.2million were living in poverty in USA

    http://news.yahoo.com/revised-govt-formula-shows-

    – – –

    Now THINK! for a minute the stupidity of making such simplistic argument.

  241. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, investigation into the existence of WMD in Iraq was done earlier than a couple weeks before the invasion. None was found. Yet the US proceeded to invade Iraq. Why was that in your opinion?

  242. aminthemystic says:

    "Yes, to raise the poor children to become brain dead jihadi. There is no selfless charity in Islam. If Islam does not benefit, no dime will be spent. "

    See the lies!

    This will continue – this rabid and dogmatic stance.

    He admits it.

    It doesn't actually matter to him . . .whether he is wrong or not.

    Whether he does this:

    ""Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!" "

    Deliberate lie about someone to undermine them.

    He knows it is a lie . . . and he cannot answer for it.

    Dirtiest and the most absurd trick in the book! But it doesn't work.

    – – –

    If anyone is actually interested. Boys are RAISED as Muslims – however these people do not part-take in such "Jihads"

    – – –

    If he had BOTHERED to read . . .this particular charity actually DOES help non-Muslims.

    For example paying for marriages of Hindus and Christians.

    But of course . . . future converts!

    By this token . . . point to me ONE act of charity that can be described as self-less.

  243. aminthemystic says:

    "One are is for "Those working in God's way (Fī Sabīlillāh)" This is jihad. "

    It could be . . . But it isn't. Fi-Sabiliah covers charity in general.

    – – –

    " Here we are not talking about small money, but large sums of money given as bribe to politicians, academicians and newspapers in non-Muslim countries, so they become sympathetic of Islam and defend it. "

    See – this where the lying starts . . .

    He knows FULL WELL he does NOT have to give evidence. . .

    why . . . .

    Becuase his "fellows" don't demand it. . .

    And the Muslims that do . . .

    Look what he does:

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

    That is right – build DELIBERATE lies about them.

    Then refuses to answer. Oh he has answered . . .read here:
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/22/imam-husseins-

    Simple – If you are THAT into truth . . . . why does it conveniently forsake you?

    = = =

    "This is no longer needed. But during the time of Muhammad slaves were purchased so they make part of the army of Islam. The most famous of them are Bilal and Salman. "

    Right . . . more lying. Such perception and deliberate misleads ARE lies.

    – – –

    "Even when the money is spent for the poor is to win their hearts and enlist them in the army of Islam."

    ! Says it all.

    – – –

    "This army then would raid the non-Muslims. The money of zakat cannot be spent on non-Muslims who show no interest in Islam. "

    Actually Muslims were of 2 opinions . .

    1st said – It can be.

    2nd said – Only after Muslim needs are met.

    – – –

    See how the lying is build up?

    So which truth is this?

    Where is logic/rationality?

    – – –

    He knows full well . . . 1st deserving of Zakah is family, friends, community . . . etc.

    But mentioning this does him no favours.

  244. Ali Sina says:

    No it is not baseless lies. It is a fact. Just Google Poverty in Iran and see what you find. Iran is no Bangladesh. It has the second largest oil reserves. Every Iranian could live in opulence without working, But their money is spent in Lebanon to win the hearts of the Shiites there so they can invade Israel.

    Read this about poverty in Iran. http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/

  245. aminthemystic says:

    "What if they are not misguided and you are? What if they interpret the Quran the correct way? "

    it is simple to find this out. . .

    They do the EXACT same thing you do.

    Negate opposing views by dismissing or merely ignoring them.

    The excuses dear . . .

  246. aminthemystic says:

    This is why I suspect "Muslim Man" to be a fraud. He creates these perfect openings for Sina.

    Who then comes to write his spiel.

    – – –

    "Apparently the information about Saddam sending his WMD to Syria is being discovered now. Now that Asad is about to fall the world is realizing he possesses a large quantity of WMD which may fall in the had of al Qaida. How did Asad obtain those weapons? There is only one way. He got them from Saddam."

    See this is BADLY thought out . .. no references no nothing. Just poor speculations.

    Here is why.

    How did Saddam get his WMD?

    1. He devloped them.

    2. He was sold to by West.

    Truth is probably both. He was given huge amount of armory. And he did develop his own.

    But so was Assad . . .

    He has been acquiring arms from China and mainly Russia. Some from France.

    He too can develop his own.

    – – –

    So why ONLY Saddam is his source?

    Guess what is LIKELY to happen.

    No one will EVER know.

    – – –

    "It makes perfect sense that Saddam may have trucked his WMD to Syria a couple weeks before the invasion and during the time the UN was pressing him to let them inspect everywhere. "

    And Our Bastard didn't use them on USA. See – how quaint and sensible!

    – – –

    "We all know Saddam had WMD. "

    Do we. . .

    – – –

    "He used them against the Kurds after the first war, when he was forced to retreat from Kuwait."

    See how he repeats the lie . . . !

    Kurds were gassed – but the full knowledge and er . . . permissibility of West – West conveniently looked away . . .as Saddam was fighting Iran.

    Kurdish Workers Party was successfully declared to be terrorists!

    – – –

    "Remember that he also sent his plains to Iran for safe keeping, which the Iranians never returned. "

    Obviously NOT – as he had been fighting them for years . . .

    – – –

    Sina once more repeats his old tale . . . AGAIN.

    He in UNABLE to discuss. . . . but repeat the lies for his new Masters.

    Hence why he is sell out.

    – – –

    When he cannot answer – is ROUNDLY "HUMILIATED"

    what does he . . .
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/22/imam-husseins-

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

    Oldest and the worst trick in the book.

    False accusations against you opponents!

  247. Ali Sina says:

    “Yes Aghosh – In Pakistan.”

    Yes, to raise the poor children to become brain dead jihadi. There is no selfless charity in Islam. If Islam does not benefit, no dime will be spent.

  248. Ali Sina says:

    “Coming back to zakat — I really have to reconfirm that your experience regarding the use of zakat money in your former community is different from that in mine. I hope that is not really your experience, but only an allegation that you make which will require an investigation to prove it.”

    No it is not my personal experience. I was 16 when I left Iran. At that time most educated Iranians did not give must attention to religion. They wanted to live their lives like most normal people and the country was becoming modernized and westernized. However the virus of Islam was dormant. That is why I no longer buy the charade of moderate Islam.

    I learned how the zakat is used later, when I was no longer a believer. I learned the true Islam when I was no longer a Muslim. I admit that during the years I was a believer I was utterly ignorant of Islam. Most Muslims are also ignorant of their religion. They too will leave it when they learn the truth.

  249. Ali Sina says:

    “I agree with you there are people who based their atrocities on the Quran. But we Muslims consider them to be misguided.”

    That is what I thought too, until I read the Quran and then the hadith and the Sira. What if they are not misguided and you are? What if they interpret the Quran the correct way?

  250. Ali Sina says:

    “I am not sure if terrorist activities have been supported by zakat money. But that possibility does exist, and the law and regulation may play a preventative role.”

    Yes the jihadi/terrorist activities are covered by zakat money. Please read Aminriadh’s comment where he gives how this money should be spent. One are is for “Those working in God’s way (Fī Sabīlillāh)” This is jihad.

    Another ruble is for “Non-Muslims who are sympathetic to Islam or wish to convert to Islam.(Al-Mu’allafatu Qulūbuhum)” Here we are not talking about small money, but large sums of money given as bribe to politicians, academicians and newspapers in non-Muslim countries, so they become sympathetic of Islam and defend it.

    Another ruble is “People whom one is attempting to free from slavery or bondage. Also includes paying ransom or blood money (Diyya). (Fir-Riqāb)” This is no longer needed. But during the time of Muhammad slaves were purchased so they make part of the army of Islam. The most famous of them are Bilal and Salman.

    The slaves were not purchased because the idea of slavery was regarded as something evil. Muhammad reduced countless free people into slaves sand sold them.

    Even when the money is spent for the poor is to win their hearts and enlist them in the army of Islam. This army then would raid the non-Muslims. The money of zakat cannot be spent on non-Muslims who show no interest in Islam.

  251. Ali Sina says:

    Apparently the information about Saddam sending his WMD to Syria is being discovered now. Now that Asad is about to fall the world is realizing he possesses a large quantity of WMD which may fall in the had of al Qaida. How did Asad obtain those weapons? There is only one way. He got them from Saddam. It makes perfect sense that Saddam may have trucked his WMD to Syria a couple weeks before the invasion and during the time the UN was pressing him to let them inspect everywhere.

    We all know Saddam had WMD. He used them against the Kurds after the first war, when he was forced to retreat from Kuwait. The intelligence information also confirmed it. Is it logical to assume he voluntarily decided the does not need them and disposed of them? Or is it more logical to assume he sent them to Syria for safe keeping. Remember that he also sent his plains to Iran for safe keeping, which the Iranians never returned.

  252. aminthemystic says:

    This the reason why I believe you to be Sina's creation. From Post 1.

    – – –

    "Dear Ali Sina, sorry I combined zakat and sadaqah. Yes, there are orphanages built with money from sadaqah."

    See Zakah is limited to 8 categories:

    Those living in absolute poverty (Al-Fuqarā')

    Those who were restrained because they cannot meet their basic needs (Al-Masākīn)

    The zakat collectors themselves (Al-Āmilīna 'Alaihā)

    Non-Muslims who are sympathetic to Islam or wish to convert to Islam.(Al-Mu'allafatu Qulūbuhum)

    People whom one is attempting to free from slavery or bondage. Also includes paying ransom or blood money (Diyya). (Fir-Riqāb)

    Those who have incurred overwhelming debts while attempting to satisfy their basic needs (Al-Ghārimīn)

    Those working in God's way (Fī Sabīlillāh)

    Children of the street / Travellers (Ibnus-Sabīl)

    Wiki

    Where Sadaqah isn't limited to these 8. And is General Charity

    – – –

    Is er . . . an eventual conversion in the offing?

    – – –

    Straight after your post . . . .Sina was welcoming you! Here is another suspect lies . . . whose story doesn't add up.
    http://liberatednow.blogspot.co.uk/

  253. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, interesting. You said " … they sent (the WMD) to Syria … " . Did they know this before or immediately after they invaded Iraq? If before, why did they proceed with the invasion? If immediately after, why did they continue with the occupation of Iraq for almost a decade? Or probably they just came to know about it last year and that is why they began working on Syria last year, in whih case it seems their intelligence is really weak. Can you give me an explanation?

  254. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, sorry I combined zakat and sadaqah. Yes, there are orphanages built with money from sadaqah. Increasingly in many Muslim countries these two resources are being managed more properly in order to put them into better use. Awqaf is another potential source of wealth creation to build the prosperity of Muslims. Non Muslims are also welcome to benefit. Some Muslim countries already have laws which regulate the collection and use of zakat, sadaqah and waqf.

    I am not sure if terrorist activities have been supported by zakat money. But that possibility does exist, and the law and regulation may play a preventative role.

    Without looking at the links, I agree with you there are people who based their atrocities on the Quran. But we Muslims consider them to be misguided. There are other possible interpretations of the verses – had they consulted with other scholars.

    Coming back to zakat — I really have to reconfirm that your experience regarding the use of zakat money in your former community is different from that in mine. I hope that is not really your experience, but only an allegation that you make which will require an investigation to prove it.

  255. aminthemystic says:

    "Yes of course! Looks what America gets for gratitude for staying in those hell holes and trying to bring democracy to these godforsaken Islamic hells. "

    See how fond you are of repeating lies . . .

    But when this BS was challenged – NOT a peep out of you. . .

    Actually Iraq was NOT a hell-hole.

    And Afghanistan had its reason – due to continuous war.

    Saudi, Oman, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar,. . . they have done FINE and are growing – with and without oil support. And er . .. USA aid.

    Something we actually agree on. USA can take its AID – and SHOVE it where the sun doesn't shine.

    NO MUSLIM OR MUSLIM country needs it.

    It is the biggest evil going. It ENSLAVES people.

    Pakistan for instance.

    Why give aid to a country . . . whose 1billion USA took and never returned over F-16 fighter pilots?

    A country actually ABUNDANTLY rich in resources?

    Iraq?

    The monster was MADE by USA. . . . they gave him the weaponry – to fight Iran. . . .

    So why should Iraq thank USA?

    What for?

    It should give it the middle finger.

    – – –

    "But they respect you when they see you are strong and smash their nose. A bully will respect you only when you have your boot on his throat. "

    Dear me . . .

    Straight from Hitler's speech about Jews!

    He was like you – flitting from Christianity to Atheism. And Hatred of Religion.

    And he clung to all others too!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_A

    Hitler RESPECTED every other faith on Earth – except Judaism.

    Sounds like you.

    – – –

    "Weren't you the one complaining for America being in those countries killing the Muslims? You don't give a a damn that those Muslims are terrorists who kill other Muslims."

    Haven't you lied enough about me?

    More lies to the count.

    – – –

    See – when you are beaten in argument . . .

    And it is all laid bare . . . . what do you do?

    Get personal and start lying . . . EXAMPLE:

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

    – – –

    And repeat your lies.

    I destroyed this BS before and will keep doing it.

    – – –

    As for your personal hate towards me. . .

    Well – What have I been saying all along.

    I am NOT a hate-filled person. You are.

    It is a dark emotion. . . it has taken over you . . . hence you are the darkness. And look how dark gathers around you.

  256. aminthemystic says:

    "
    Are you sure? Can you name a few orphanages and hospitals built with the zakat money?"

    Yes Aghosh – In Pakistan.
    http://www.minhajwelfare.org/?page_id=27

    Just one example.

    – – –

    "The Zakat money is used to build mosques, madrassaha and finance Islamic propaganda, such as publishing the Quran and giving it for free to the very people who supposedly are filthy and must not touch it. Talk about the hypocrisy. "

    No it isn't. This is YOU lying outright.

    Zakah – is for SPECIFIC purposes. See you tend to repeat lies.

    This lie was challenged previously

    You could not defend it.

    You hate and lying is SICKENING. Any decent "human" will be sickened to the pit of their stomachs.

    – – –

    "When they came to power, the poor was forgotten, Instead they started pouring a lot of money to Lebanon to finance Hizbullah and they spend it on the poor to sweeten Islam in their mouth. "

    Baseless lies.

    – – –

    "There is no real charity in Islam but there is a lot of hypocrisy. Any time the poor is helped it is never out of kindness but there is always a string attached to it. "

    Another meaningless rant. Nothing but his sick mind.

    That will build lies about individual Muslims here . . . AND Muslims as whole.

    Look here:

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

    – – –

  257. aminthemystic says:

    "Actually Saddam did have weapons of mass destruction. He used them on the Kurds."

    He had some mass weapons . . . Provided by the West! USA and the French played a marvelous role. They were GIVEN to destroy Iran.

    USA knew full well they were USED on the Kurds.

    Did nothing.

    The monster grew.

    – – –

    "But as Muslims their appreciation did not last long. It is foolish to expect gratitude from Muslims. They will take what you give them and bite your finger too. "

    See the disgusting deception he come up with.

    USA knew full well how Kurds were beaten by Saddam.

    – – –

    " Iraq of Afghanistan. If the people in these countries had any decency they would be utterly grateful to America."

    What the MONSTER that built the BABY MONSTER?

    Don't make me laugh. He was "Our Bastard" – He was USED by USA from Iran.

    Helping Muslims had NOTHING to do with it.

    When he got too big for his boots – USA stepped in . . . to protect

    "its interests"

    – – –

    "Look at your own thoughts. You are no rabid mad fanatic Muslim but your reasoning is the same."

    Well we know about you reasoning . . . or the lack of it.

    And how you fling this lie. . .

    look here:

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

    – – –

    See your lying. . . . when you cannot reason – you do this to undermine Muslims . . .

    But it will NOT work but back fire.

    Despite email exchanges . . . YOU WERE UNABLE TO ANSWER.

    So why did you lie?

  258. aminthemystic says:

    Where do you think. Living.

    Or do you want me dead?

  259. zitouni says:

    Ali Sina said : Yes of course! Looks what America gets for gratitude for staying in those hell holes and trying to bring democracy to these godforsaken Islamic hells.

    America did not invade them to bring democracy find some dumb peron to sell this lie to. How can America promote democracy in Muslim world when they are always responsible for helping dictators to power. Who brough shah to power, who defend barbaric mafia regime in Arab word which stole 13 trilion dollars and invest it in Amwerica leaving their people in mistery and backwardness

  260. zitouni says:

    Joe said : you cannot deny that quran justifies the taking of captives
    and you cannot deny that quran justifies sex with slaves
    and you cannot deny that Mohammad had slaves and had sex with his slaves
    YOU WANT TO BE LIKE MOHAMMAD!! Deny that!!

    Prophet did that because it was norm of the day to do . Scholars are saying no Muslim can do becasue we have exchange of war prisoners

    here is a link to a man that was captured as a child in suddan and His experience in Suddan.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSEJyVyUGoA

    This is just propaganda video. There is no way I can verify that this guy is saying the truth . Plus what Muslims do is not neccesary get it from Islam, You have to shiow where islam advocate of killing innocent people.

    and here is a activist in Kuwait that argues for slave agencies and justifies them according to Islamic law https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcpKisAsNM

    I have already said that scholars say that you can no longer do that . what this woman is saying is wrong and she is not scholar in Islam in order for you to use her as proof

  261. zitouni says:

    Joe said : Mosab Yousef is the oldest son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a charismatic founding member of Hamas.. FACT

    The guy was looking for green card and to stay in USA and to do that he had to leave Islam and attack the religion because he knows state department needs soembody like him . He was not world renown Islamic scholor he was man who had no choice , but to leave Islam otherwise he was going to be send to Guantano bay since israel knows that he was terrorist and son of so callled Hamams terrorist .

  262. zitouni says:

    aminthemystic said : I am surprised you give go as far as saying his Arabic language is elementary. I have NOT seen any evidence to suggest it is!

    I was wrong about that . The fact of matter is that he does not know Arabic at all .

  263. Abid says:

    @Aminriadh,

    Wheeeeerreeeeee are you, my dear ????

  264. Abid says:

    I found many many misleading and fabricated miracles about Islam and Quran, as I continued verification. I am still finding such deceptions. I would request you to verify everything, do not go blindly. There is no miracle in Islam and Quran. Honestly speaking, don’t mind, I found Quran is worst nonsense I have ever read. Repetition, sudden end of event or stories, incomplete information and lots more. Quran never implies anything but people infer what they want to infer from this vague, incomplete nonsense book. __There is ample of events of Muhammad’s atrocious, lustful, inhuman deeds in Hadiths and Sira, even in Quran. I completely deny that Muhammad was a God’s Man. As far as belief in God is concerned, I don’t believe in any merciful, omnipotent, personal God who will account for our deeds on earth. Mainly because of problem of evils. Still my position is of an agnostic. I am an ardent fan of Bertrand Russell and Ali Sina. I think Sina is the Russell of 21st century. You must read Russell. __With lot of good wishes:__Abid

  265. Abid says:

    __See, I could say that on this and this particular date I left Islam but this would not be true. Let me share my journey of enlightenment. In spite of that about three or three and a half years back when I was a very religious muslim, practicing everything but a good human being as well, I never hated people of any other faith or any atheist. One day when I was browsing internet, I found a heading saying Unholy Quotes from Quran, under which there were few verses of Quran, like kill Jews and Christians, infidels, non-believers. Which shocked me, but I did not believe it and on the same day I verified if that is there in the Quran which I read (Pickthall’s). I found it was there. From that day onwards I continued study about Islam, slowly slowly my hatred towards Islam grew.

  266. Abid says:

    Since my early childhood days I had few questions in my mind which Islam and Christianity claims. Like, nothing happens without the will of God still we are punished and rewarded as per our deeds in afterlife. Afterlife is infinite, without end, Satan was condemned for his disobedience to God & was thrown in earth and he decided to mislead people, I used to think Why would we be punished for his evil act of misdirecting, why God is not stopping him from doing such a charade, why would we be punished for the disobedience of Adam & Eve. These are very simple nonsense which every child with a normal brain could understand.

  267. I'm no Almighty says:

    Your prophet received Revealations from God or Angel etc, etc. ! Where did you get this from ? What is the Proof ? Where is the Evidence ?
    Flying to heaven is perfectly possible – How can we believe it ? Demonstrate it !

  268. I'm no Almighty says:

    Where is the proof for your allegations againest Sina. You are a Die-hard Religionist. You close eyes to reality, then how you can see it.

  269. Joe says:

    do you marry first cousins?
    do you acknowledge that this leads to high rate of deformaties?

    the west has it's own problems especially with the chemicals that are put in a food chain.

    the west has many lessons to learn and the important thing is that we all open our minds and evolve.. God is the final judge, man should focus on being the best he can be before the eyes of God rather than judging others.

  270. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… You stated: "I know that slaughtering people who disagree with you is bad." muhammad slaughtered people for disagreeing with him… by the thousands (and said it was allah's idea)… and the qur'an teaches muslims to fight and kill unbelievers… are you willing to admit that muhammad did "bad" things and that allah in the qur'an commands "bad" things? If so, why are you a muslim?

    Also… it would be most accurate to state that "SOME muslims MAY disobey the qur'an and behave peacefully," since the "NORM" set by the qur'an is to FIGHT. The NORM is not to be peaceful to non-believers… the norm for "muslims" (all muslims) is to fight them.

    J Stillwater

  271. Joe says:

    your quran is a poor translation of an aramaic text..

    search aramaic quran and see that you have been lied to.. the oldest quran was found in yemen 30 years ago in yemen.. it was carbon dated and is calimed as the oldest text which is written in aramaic.. so much for your pure text

  272. Joe says:

    @aminthe

    you quote the book of Deuteronomy which is in the old testament.. that is a book that Jesus criticised and was crucified for.. regardless is this the best you can do? you justify the violence in your own text with the violence in a jewish text..

    Tell me one place that offers the words of Jesus? the two greatest laws of God:
    1/ Love God with you heart and soul and mind
    2/ Love they neighbor as jesus taught us.. infact we should also love our enemy.. Jesus teaches that we should do everything to settle our differences before we stand before God.. God is the judge not your quran or your mohammad or you.. just get over it

  273. Joe says:

    Dear Muslim man,

    yes infact it is what we do that is important.. If we are good people then that is what will judge us on..

    do you think that if muslims read the same quran as you and they read the passage like 9.5 which commands them to kill the unbelievers.. do you think this is a just act? do you think that muslims that go out and kill in the name of allah because of the quran, is that a good act?

    do you think that if your child or any young man should run out and martyr himself self because people like you refuse to see the violence in the quran.. does that make you as guilty as the young man because you say nothing?

  274. Ali Sina says:

    “said it was based on deliberate lies and deceptions – but let me phrase it as “inaccurate” on the basis of good faith) that the country has weapons of mass destruction.”

    Actually Saddam did have weapons of mass destruction. He used them on the Kurds. Now did he destroy them on his own without anyone asking him to do so? No that assumption is foolish. He sent them to Syria. Today the main concern of the world is that after that fall of Asad those weapons will fall into the hand of Muslims.

    “I am sure you can appreciate that it is difficult for Muslims to consider the invasion was done for the good of the people of the invaded country.”

    The majority of Iraqis are Shiites and Kurds who really appreciated the removal of Saddam at first. But as Muslims their appreciation did not last long. It is foolish to expect gratitude from Muslims. They will take what you give them and bite your finger too.

    Look at your own thoughts. You are no rabid mad fanatic Muslim but your reasoning is the same. I would would be grateful to any country that invades my country and frees it from the rulers if then they don’t stay to colonize it. America did not want to colonize Iraq of Afghanistan. If the people in these countries had any decency they would be utterly grateful to America. But Muslims don’t know what gratitude is and they can’t even build a democracy. That is why I believe no country should ever help a Muslim country. Look at Kosovo. Even in Kosovo there are many Muslims who are jihadis working for al Qaida hating America. Even when you help Muslims during disaster they will never be grateful to you.

  275. Ali Sina says:

    “In my Islamic community, we pay zakat to build orphanage, hospitals, etc.”

    Are you sure? Can you name a few orphanages and hospitals built with the zakat money? The Zakat money is used to build mosques, madrassaha and finance Islamic propaganda, such as publishing the Quran and giving it for free to the very people who supposedly are filthy and must not touch it. Talk about the hypocrisy.

    There are also cases that the zakat money is spent on the poor. That is when these poor people are needed to join the army of Allah. In Iran the Muslims gave a lot of money to the poor before the revolution. When they came to power, the poor was forgotten, Instead they started pouring a lot of money to Lebanon to finance Hizbullah and they spend it on the poor to sweeten Islam in their mouth.

    There is no real charity in Islam but there is a lot of hypocrisy. Any time the poor is helped it is never out of kindness but there is always a string attached to it.

    ————
    “We do not preach terrorism. Yet, as you know it, there are still terrorist acts by some Muslim, a very small number of them. We condemn the act. ”

    You are not the prophet of Islam. Muhammad is and he taught terrorism. Have you really studied the Quran? Where do you think the terrorists get their motivation to kill and die? This assurance that after their death they will go straight to paradise comes from the Quran.

    Please see these videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHlMvlA84ig http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embed…! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embed

    You can’t argue that these people are wrong because they speak with the authority of the Quran.

  276. Muslim Man says:

    Dear infidel/kafir, your experience about Islam is different from mine. Maybe this is because we have approached it from different directions. I read the Quran and find it beautiful that its being evil is impossible. You read the Quran and conclude it is evil that it is impossible for it to contain any goodness. I have no problem with your conclusion. What matters is how much good deed we deliver to humankind —let us compete in this aspect of life.

  277. Muslim Man says:

    Dear infidel/kafir, my experience is different from yours. Islam has given me peace of mind. Islam has given me serenity. I think this was because we have approached it from different directions. I read the Quran and conclude that Islam is so beautiful that its being evil is impossible. You read the Quran and conclude that Islam is evil and it is impossible that Islam has even a bit of goodness. I have no problem with your conclusion. What is most relevant is whether we deliver good deeds to other human beings.

  278. Ali Sina says:

    “If I were the president of the USA I would have bombed Afghanistan and Iraq back to stone age and left them alone. ”

    Yes of course! Looks what America gets for gratitude for staying in those hell holes and trying to bring democracy to these godforsaken Islamic hells.
    Muslims are the most ungrateful people I know. But they respect you when they see you are strong and smash their nose. A bully will respect you only when you have your boot on his throat.

    Weren’t you the one complaining for America being in those countries killing the Muslims? You don’t give a a damn that those Muslims are terrorists who kill other Muslims. That does not matter to you at all. What matters is that they are Muslims, even if they are terrorists.

  279. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, thank you for the clarification. Appreciated.

    So, you agree there are verses in the Quran that instruct people to do good deeds. The way you expressed yourself, however, gave the impression that you did not recognize the existence of such verses.

    Would you consider in your future posts qualifying your statements on Islam by citing your recognition of the existence of these verses in the Quran? I believe this will make your arguments more factual.

    Just a suggestion.

  280. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater,

    I know that slaughtering people who disagree with you is bad. And you said that Muslims will continue to slaughter those who disagree with them. And you said that you don't have a notion that all Muslim is bad. I appreciate this.

    If that is the case, in future posts you may want to consider qualifying your statement about Muslims. For example, rather than saying "Muslims will continue to slaughter … " probably you can say "some Muslims will continue to slaughter … " . Perhaps I may also suggest the use of "may" rather than "will" because nobody knows what really will happen in the future. This does not mean your statement is agreeable to me.

  281. zitouni says:

    [email protected]'s go back in time… back before there were "white men" who wanted to "subjugate" muslims…

    You are such dumb and ignorant person . white men is much older than Islam . The Greeks and Romans were white people who ocupied N Africa and midles east .

    1.the Massacre of Banu Quraiza

    I hate to repeat myself I have already talked about this just look for it in the forum

    2.the Massacre of Khaybar
    Mentioning excecution of one person in story has made you to label it as massacre . Non Muslims become dumb when they attack Islam I do not know why . Now you do not even know the defintion and the meaning of massacre
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/massacre

    Muhammad Attacks The Jewish Settlement of Banu Mustaliq: He Captures And Rapes A Twenty Year Old Jewish Girl – Juwairiya

    Is that your source of information about islam . I wonder why you brain is full of garbage. Those people do not even know basic thing about history of islam. Banu mustaliq were not Jewish tribe , but you could not notice that because you are dumb and stupid man who would swallow anything that you read in anti islamic website .

    The Banu Mustaliq is an Arab tribe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Mustaliq

    the Massacre of Banu Mustaliq

    Read again the definition of masacre because there was nothing in the story which suggest a massacre took place . Yes there was a fight like all armies fight , but hardly can be called a massacre

    Oh… and let's consult islamic histories and the qur'an references that confirm those histories… CLICK HERE (opens in new page), read the page, and then, come back and tell me why you are not sickened by what you read,

    Yes in deed I was sickened by what I read in that link and here is the proof .
    Prophet had suddenly attacked Banu Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day and raped her.

    Read the same hadith and see what it says at the end about Juwariya

    Bukhari yol 3,Book 46, No. 717
    The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day.

    Where is the word rape in there ?? .uhmmm , tell me , You are really dumm fucck man when you keep trusting anti Islamic website who make fun of people like you

    and why you believe I should follow this man and believe he is a divine prophet from god, instead of hating him with every fiber of my being.

    I think now you should give this advice to yourself about anti islamic websites after I exposed them changing hadiths to deceive naive people like you . Ali sina does the same thing about koran
    .

  282. aminthemystic says:

    "9:5, Then fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, "

    Yet 9:6 says . . . .

    "And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

    Quran 9:6

  283. aminthemystic says:

    "You don't see us promoting violence against Muslims. "

    Forget this "Us"

    Name this "Us" and then we will explore whether it promotes violence or not.

    – – –

    Let us look at YOU:

    "If I were the president of the USA I would have bombed Afghanistan and Iraq back to stone age and left them alone. "
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/07/what-happened-

    – – –

    Accepting the fact that Muslims are sub-humans who do not reason like us is so hard for the westerners to swallow that they rather deny it.

    – – –

    I mean Jews and Christians have their er . . . "promotion" of violence. So who is this "us"?

    Atheism too has it promotion of violence towards Muslims.

    So who is us?

  284. aminthemystic says:

    "Oh really . I have not seen you attacking your slave master when they kill innocent Muslims because you love it "

    He get around this by saying all Muslims are guilty – and HE does promote VIOLENCE.

    "If I were the president of the USA I would have bombed Afghanistan and Iraq back to stone age and left them alone. "
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/07/what-happened-

  285. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, we really have a different experience about Islam in our respective lives. Really different. In my Islamic community, we pay zakat to build orphanage, hospitals, etc. We establish awqaf to build schools and commercial estates, to educate our children to be good to the neighbors, to be smart students, to train them so that they can be qualified engineers, doctors, etc. We do not preach terrorism. Yet, as you know it, there are still terrorist acts by some Muslim, a very small number of them. We condemn the act.

    However, many non-Muslim leaders do not (want to) recognize these facts. They sent their powerful troops to a weak Muslim country based on inaccurate intelligent report (many people – including non-Muslims – said it was based on deliberate lies and deceptions – but let me phrase it as "inaccurate" on the basis of good faith) that the country has weapons of mass destruction.

    I am sure you can appreciate that it is difficult for Muslims to consider the invasion was done for the good of the people of the invaded country. This war rhetoric and the invasion are just unreconcilable, especially when we realized that more than a million people, most of them innocent, were killed. And what can you expect from powerless people to retaliate? A bomb here, a bomb there. How many casualties? Quite a big number. Yet, it is much less than the number of "collateral damages" caused by the invasion. BTW, I read somewhere that the number of casualties in school shooting in the US is less than the number of US citizens who died because of acts of terrorism.

    I do not support terrorism. Let me be clear about this. And there is nothing new in what I just said.

    Now, you surely are convinced that Islam is evil. We Muslims are also convinced that Islam is good. I have seen a lot of debates in your site where Muslims try to prove that Islam is not an evil religion, which none of them satisfies you. I have no problem with that. Everyone is entitled to his/her conviction. However, let me assure you that these debates will never end – although it may be entertaining :=)) You know, I went to make ablution to pray after posting one of my responses.

    And I continue to deliver good deeds because the Prophet gave me that example. When I do things, I recite "bismillah." And I do not strike the neck of my Christian neighbor, in fact I wished him a merry christmas – I don't have a reason to strike his neck.

    So, let us find a common platform, which is practical. There are a lot of problems in the world such as global warming, poverty, unemployment, etc. I believe it wil be for the good of people in general if we use our energy to contribute to the global effort to address these problems.

  286. zitouni says:

    Ali sina said : I get my facts from the Quran and hadith. But thank you for the offer.

    You have never read koran in your life because you canot read Arabic LOL

  287. zitouni says:

    Ali Sina said :On the other hand Islam instills in the heart of its followers the hatred of non-Muslims and encourages its followers to kill them.

    Liar no such thing . If non Muslims did not attack us or drove us from our homes and do not fight us for our believe koran urges us to be nice and kind to these people

    Ali Sina said :It even promises then great reward and direct access to paradise if they are killed while killing their hapless victims.

    Ali Sina said : Liar . what victims are you talking about . Those American or zionist soldiers who are killing Muslims is that what you mean ¿

    Ali Sina said :This is truly evil. I know it is hard for you to see it so let me reverse the Quranic verses and see how they sound.

    All those verses are interpreted out of context by stupid ignorant and Muslim hater with zero credentiels on Islam and who has never read koran in his life . I will go through each one of them

    Ali Sina said :8:12 We will cast terror into the hearts of Muslims. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

    Man stop interpreting koran you are not good at it. Can you be honest at least once in your life . This verse has historical context it was revealed before the battle of Badr because when Muslim found out that Kuraich has assembled an army of 900 men Muslims got scared because they had only 300 men with light weapons so God told them that they are not going to be alone he is going to be with them during the fight helping Muslims in war effort . Gods job was to cast fear in the hearts of Mushriks in such way they are going to become coward and Muslims should finish the job by striking them off

    Ali Sina said :3:28, Let not the non-Muslims take for friends or helpers the Muslims.

    You are sick person I swear . If you had no reply to this verse when I explained to you before why you still bring it here again . do you think I will not see it

    Ali Sina said :8:65, Rouse the non-Muslims to the fight against Muslims.

    This verse was revealed to urge Muslims to fight people who were at war with them . You make it sound your slave master never said such thing in his life. How do you think they gathered people to fight his wars

    Ali Sina said :9:5, Then fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them,

    I cannot take it any more . you are sick person . This verse was about Mushriks who were at war with Muslims 1400 years ago and broke the treaty . Verse says slay Mushriks . Those kind of people are no longer around because they ceased to exsit

    Ali Sina said :9:14, Fight the Muslims, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame.

    Same is about Mushriks in Arabia 1400 years ago

    Ali Sina said :9:23, O ye the non-Muslims take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love Islam.

    Why would you take your relatives as allies when they are in the enemy camps. They have joined people who want to exterminate us and you want Muslims to trust them, are you nuts ¿

    Ali Sina said :9:28, O ye the non-Muslims! Truly the Muslims are unclean.

    If you were front off me I would slap you on the face hypocrite . We have already talked about this verse and I caught you changing it liar and deceiver. This verse says that Mushriks are unclean

    Ali Sina said :9:123, O ye non-Muslims! fight the Muslims who gird you about, and let them find harshness in you.

    Verse was about Mushriks who were at war with Muslims 1400 years ago . What is wrong with urging your soldiers to be tough with an enemy who wants to exterminate them

    Ali Sina said :47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Muslims, smite at their necks; At length.

    Meet them where in market , or in park ? Tell me liar and deceiver . You have habit of misquoting verses , changing them or half quoting them in order to make fun of people . The verse say until the war is over therefore the meeting is going to be on battle field stupid . And what people do on battle field during war ¿?? They dance or they drink coffee . You are such hypocrite SOB person

  288. zitouni says:

    Ali Sina said : On the contrary. We don't demonize Muslims. We explain that Muslims do evil things when they are under the spell of Islam.

    I do not know what is evil thing for you . If Muslims are fighting your white slave master because he ocupies and kill Muslims to you it is an evil thing . Your view is that Muslims should accept him as his slave master like you did otherwise they are savage

    Ali Sina said :The enemy is an ideology of deception and lies that reduces good people into monsters and terrorists.
    The deception and lies are your ways , but do not worry I will be all the time here to expose them to people who are interested in knowing the truth

    Ali Sina said :In other words we explain that the reason Muslims are acting like this is because of the disease that they have, i.e. Islam.

    They are acting like this becasue of your slave master who does not want to stay in his back yard . Vietnamese fought you master , will you say that they did that because they got the idea from Islam ¿

    Ali Sina said :It is this disease that has to be eliminated so the patients can be set free.

    The one who are sick is your slave master. Imagine you broke into my house and when I asked to leave you beat and killed my family and during the fight you get injured and when the police arrived you started complaining that I injured you , do you think police are going to listen your story NO they are going to tell you you are not supposed to be in the first place and you have no righ inside this mans house and he has the right to do whatever he wants to you if you refused to leave and they will hangcuff you and take you to jail .

    Ali Sina said : You don't see us promoting violence against Muslims.

    Oh really . I have not seen you attacking your slave master when they kill innocent Muslims because you love it

  289. aminthemystic says:

    " If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NA B) "

    This stands out . . .
    <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+13%3A7-12&version=KJV&quot; target="_blank"&gt <a href="http://;http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deute…” target=”_blank”>;http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deute

    But this might be more exacting.

    7 gods from all the neighboring peoples, whether nearby or far away, from one end of the earth to the other— 8 don’t give in to them! Don’t obey them! Don’t have any mercy on them! Don’t have compassion on them and don’t protect them! 9 Instead, you must execute them. Your own hand must be against them from the beginning of the execution; the hand of all the people will be involved at the end. 10 Stone them until they are dead because they desired to lead you away from the Lord your God, the one who brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 All Israel will hear about this and be afraid. They won’t do that sort of evil thing among you again.

    This easier to read.

    = = =

    Bible to suffers the Translation problems! But unlike Quran. . . translation IS the Bible. There is not much value placed in the original language.

  290. aminthemystic says:

    "Your comments are consistently accusing Ali Sina of hateful behviour against muslims. "

    Yes. They are. But NOT behaviour – WORDS. There is a difference. I don't know what he does.

    – – –

    "Ali Sina is offering His opinion based on references found in books that you claim are holy and the word of God.. "

    Sometimes. But that is NOT what I term as hateful.

    – – –

    "Are your books holy and divine? If so how can you then deny what is written about mohammad? Mohammad actually executed people.. That is HATEFUL…. Surely! "

    Muslims consider Quran to be divine. Not the Hadith Corpus.

    – –

    "Your quran claims that the kufar is vile and will burn in hell fire.. how hateful is that? "

    Where – please use examples. I cannot answer what you think the Quran is saying. To be EXACT . . . just use proper reference. . . then I will answer.

    quran.com

    – – –

    "all the evidence i have seen now shows that Mohammad just killed people that did not believe him.. and this is what we are seeing played out on the world stage .. over and over again.. "

    Which isn't true. So how many Muslim nations are at War with non-Muslim nations?

    In which it was the Muslim nation that attacked the non-Muslim nation?

    – – –

    "Do we look at the world and ask why is this happening? "

    Why don't you point to some EXAMPLES that are exact. . .

    Then we know what YOU are talking about.

    – – –

    This vagueness. . . and generalities . . . it leads to untruth.

    I don't play these games.

  291. Slave of prophet says:

    @J_Stillwater
    You non-believers in prophet are worst of creature. I am trying to you understand but you do not want to understand anything. Your heart is sealed. My lord Allah do right by punishing and torture you in eternal hell fire. Quran rightly says kill the monster like you who preaches false religion.

  292. Joe says:

    @aminthemystic,

    sorry that i am sometime childish.. the reason i did it was because your name claims to be mystic, but what exactly is mystical in your claims.. It seems that are just in denial.. hence the name..

    Your comments are consistently accusing Ali Sina of hateful behviour against muslims.

    Ali Sina is offering His opinion based on references found in books that you claim are holy and the word of God..

    Are your books holy and divine? If so how can you then deny what is written about mohammad? Mohammad actually executed people.. That is HATEFUL…. Surely!

    Your quran claims that the kufar is vile and will burn in hell fire.. how hateful is that?

    Jesus and Buddha and other prophets talk about our own personal journey and how we have to earn our rights..

    all the evidence i have seen now shows that Mohammad just killed people that did not believe him.. and this is what we are seeing played out on the world stage .. over and over again..

    Do we look at the world and ask why is this happening?

  293. zitouni says:

    Keep that crap for yourself . you have no academic authority to speak about islam and you have zero credentiels on any anthing subject concerning islam . You level of Arabic language , Islam and Koran is elementary

  294. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, regarding the killing of vaccine worker, you said …"this is madness …" I cannot agree more. But that is because these people just do not understand the use of vaccine, and they believe that the use of it will destroy their religion. They need some more education from people who understand. Perhaps you know that television was still considered haram in some Muslim countries in 1950s. But this has changed now. Family planning was considered haram even in the seventies. But this has changed now. I hope you also know that there is a global effort to codify Islamic law, which, in my iew, is progressing well. The codification effort also includes reconsideration of some halal/haram issues. There are still discrepancies and differences here and there, but the scholars are working hard to address them. If you a chance to observe one of the discussions in the fiqh forums, you will be amazed by these scholars consulting with experts from various scientific disciplines before they arrive at a ruling or a fatwa. Yet all of them are referring to Quran and hadith as their sources of value and inspiration as well as the basis of their opinion.

    One of the unique feature of Islam is that the injunctions of its holy book, i.e. the Quran, is something that has to be translated into actions through rigorous ijtihad process (kindly refer to my previous response to you where I explained the meaning of ijtihad). The interpretation of Quran, therefore, evolves from time to time.

    So, again, to me this is progress. This is the emergence of Islamic civilization. You may have a different opinion, of course.

  295. aminthemystic says:

    " @aminthe denier. "

    Childish name calling will not get you anywhere fast. Why do it?

    – – –

    " what is your point? you are all over the place with no specific or clear arguement. "

    I am not. But you claim it. Read my comment . . . what is is YOU did not get. You are all over the place with no specific or clear objection.

    – – –

    "Hateful? Surely the actions of Mohammad who slaughtered people, who made people slaves, who tortured people are what? THESE ACTIONS ARE HATEFUL, BARBARIC and SHIRK.. "

    Such as . . . if you have examples – specific we will talk about them. In generalities no. Meaningless. Obviously as you know . .. bring examples will NOT be a problem.

    – – –

    "Why is revealing the truth hateful? It must be the truth because there are so many muslims that openly say that Mohammad is a general and that captives are the rights of muslims.. "

    Did YOU read what I said:

    ""Yes of course! That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings. Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings! The writings of Rainbow, Zeitouni, Ali (the sinner) and every one of you Muslims. " "

    His lying accusation. . . which after SEVERAL exchanges . . . he has NOT been able to answer.

    Simple point.

    If he is THAT truthful. . . why rely on clear lies?

  296. aminthemystic says:

    I believe "Muslim Man" to be Sina. I have said it from th 1st post of his post.

  297. aminthemystic says:

    "On the contrary. We don't demonize Muslims. We explain that Muslims do evil things when they are under the spell of Islam. "

    Actually this is a Lie – and I have the evidence RIGHT here.

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

    I have given you chance to respond . . .

    And you still can.

    But this IS demonizing me. By false accusations . . . which you are NOT ashamed to make.

    Now if you can make such lies about one Muslim. . . challenging your views. . . then it at least give rise to possibility.

    – – –

    "On the other hand Islam instills in the heart of its followers the hatred of non-Muslims and encourages its followers to kill them."

    No it doesn't. Hence why Most Muslims tend NOT to hate others.

    – – –

    "This is truly evil. I know it is hard for you to see it so let me reverse the Quranic verses and see how they sound. "

    Ha ha ha ha . . . please let me hold my sides. . .

    Did YOU ever read posts by Julia?

    No sonny . . . someone has ALREADY done this. ..

    Julia the troll you have allegedly banned.

    – – –

    This is called excuses and is a fallacious form of argument . . .

    – – –

    3:28 says . .

    "Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination."

    It warning Muslims NOT to take allies of unbeliever over believers. Unless as a precaution.

    And NOT what you make it out to be.

    – – –

    You tried this before . . . it did NOT work then and it DOES not work now. As this is NOT what Islam says.

    You remove the context

    You do NOT tell the whole story – but pick a part of it.

    You do NOT bother to paste what is relevant puts these with proper context . . . and paints the complete picture.

    Would like me to name the fallacies?

    – – –

    So where is your reasoning and rationality – when you DELIBERATELY set out a false argument?

    I suspect here:

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

  298. Joe says:

    @aminthe denier.

    what is your point? you are all over the place with no specific or clear arguement.

    Hateful? Surely the actions of Mohammad who slaughtered people, who made people slaves, who tortured people are what? THESE ACTIONS ARE HATEFUL, BARBARIC and SHIRK..

    Why is revealing the truth hateful? It must be the truth because there are so many muslims that openly say that Mohammad is a general and that captives are the rights of muslims..

  299. Ali Sina says:

    On the contrary. We don’t demonize Muslims. We explain that Muslims do evil things when they are under the spell of Islam. The enemy is an ideology of deception and lies that reduces good people into monsters and terrorists. In other words we explain that the reason Muslims are acting like this is because of the disease that they have, i.e. Islam. It is this disease that has to be eliminated so the patients can be set free. You don’t see us promoting violence against Muslims.

    On the other hand Islam instills in the heart of its followers the hatred of non-Muslims and encourages its followers to kill them. It even promises then great reward and direct access to paradise if they are killed while killing their hapless victims. This is truly evil. I know it is hard for you to see it so let me reverse the Quranic verses and see how they sound.

    8:12 We will cast terror into the hearts of Muslims. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

    3:28, Let not the non-Muslims take for friends or helpers the Muslims.

    8:65, Rouse the non-Muslims to the fight against Muslims.

    9:5, Then fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them,

    9:14, Fight the Muslims, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame.

    9:23, O ye the non-Muslims take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love Islam.

    9:28, O ye the non-Muslims! Truly the Muslims are unclean.

    9:123, O ye non-Muslims! fight the Muslims who gird you about, and let them find harshness in you.

    47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Muslims, smite at their necks; At length.

  300. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, thanks for the various clarification. And I am sorry if my asking you to be balanced was considered to be an ad hominem attack. Sorry about that.

    Now, if I may paraphrase, your definition of a faithful Muslim is one who follows Muhammad's examples. And these examples are limited to those evil acts such as killing, sex slaving, plundering, and the likes. If a Muslim does a beneficial act, even if it is instructed by Muhammad and he refers to Muhammad's instruction in doing it, he is not a good Muslim. If a Muslim does not kill, does not sex slave, does not plunder, he is not a good Muslim.

    Does my paraphrasing reflect your understanding representatively? Please correct me if I am wrong.

  301. aminthemystic says:

    See how a liar and deceiver works . . .

    "That is how. Of course you know it too but you have to challenge every word I say. "

    In other words . . . it doesn't really matter to him. He knows he lies and doesn't actually care!

    Fallacious reasoning again . . .surely NOT!

    – – –

    "Young people are impressionable (a diplomatic way to say stupid). They can fall prey to Islamic deception and that is when they become suicide bombers. "

    Of course they become Suicide Bomber by demonising non-Muslims to that extent.

    But this is EXACTLY what you do. . . .

    And your supporter.

    Precisely what I point you out.

    – – –

    Ths is what you have IN COMMON with such people.

    They will YOUR KIND to be the true "non Muslims"

    Whilst . . . you hold them up to be – the "TRUE MUSLIMS"

    – – –

    It is the one in between that tend to get hurt.

    This is why I say . . . .

    Hate is same . . . whatever the religion or lack of it.

  302. aminthemystic says:

    "It is not a coincidence that in Mathnavi, Rumi attacks all thinkers"

    Actually he doesn't. And NOT all Philosophers either.

    Atheists? Doh!

    – – –

    " it was the Ash’ariyya who ended such scientific observations by declaring people are black because God created them as such."

    Actually this is NOT true. . .

    As Fakhr Uddin Razi
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakhr_al-Din_al-Razi

    Was a big gun Ashari

    He was not against either Khaldun's view or Science.

    Another was Amidi.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayf_al_Din_al_Amidi

    And these are the people that developed Ashari/Shafi school of thought.

    – – –

    One interesting point.

    Sina probably has NOT read this article.

    Because – search for it on the Internet. . . you will these quotes.

    But look at the impression!

    This is why I said. . .

    If you look at this person's learning . . . .it is ASTOUNDINGLY poor.

    – – –

    Hence why his book is such a massive reject. Even by his supporters.

    I tried to press J_Stilwater to take up the cause for example. . . it appeared he actually hadn't read Sina's work.

    And was simply here to condemn hate. Darkness gathering darkness.

  303. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, thanks for the link. Did you have a chance to follow the debates between Rastogi and Hassan, which are published in the link? I think Hassan has given a lot of clarification regarding Rastogi's conception about Quran and the Prophet. You may want to make a rebuttal to Hassan's statements.

  304. aminthemystic says:

    When he cannot cope with Muslim being good people, scientist and etc . . . this is just another line of lies. Nothing more.

    The proof is in his . . . inability to go any further then these over-simplistic statements.

    Not only has he NEVER read their work . . . i even doubt he has read anything about them other than few pages on the Internet.

    – – –

    As I pointed out – before he had his personal attacks . . .

    – – –

    He doesn't need or rely on evidence or proof.

    When pressed – he does NOT answer – simply moves on. . .

    And this works. . . as those visiting and commenting –
    are NOT looking for truth.

    But just to condemn Islam. And that is it.

    – – –

    This is REGULARLY highlighted.

    When you press people on holding up to Western Standards of Enlightenment . . .

    Ah . . . .then you have excuses.

    Either Demsci – trying to Justify personal abuse – whilst maintain he is against it!

    Or that he holds giving evidence to be true and proper thing to do. . . but not doing

    And etc. . .

    See – Sina is the same.

    Hence why this darkness gathers darkness.

    – – –

  305. aminthemystic says:

    "I don't think J Stillwater believes al Muslims are bad and if he does, he is wrong. Islam is bad, Muhammad as bad, but most Muslims have no clue about their religion."

    This is well versed lie and nothing more.

    You, yourself contradict this whenever it is in your favour.

    – – –

    " They are born in it and they project their own ideal religion into Islam. For these people Islam is the religion of love, tolerance and peace and that is why they fanatically cling to it and defend it. "

    Equally it is YOU projection that Islam is EVIL – and hence you make up many lies. . . . and that is why you claim your portrait of Muslim is the right one.

    In this case your lie that those who hold Islam to be peaceful – don't know about their faith.

    But when it comes to it. . . . this is proven NOT to be true.

    When YOU cannot outsmart such people . . .

    What do YOU do . . . .

    Lie about them as well.

    Here for Instance . . . .

    ""Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!" "

    A well chosen and specific lie. Else, Prove it?

    – – –

    "The problem is that they will gradually learn the truth and get used to is. If all the truth is presented to them at once, as I do, most of them will be aghast and will leave Islam in horror."

    No you don't . . .else why are MANY lies of your exposed here. ..

    And why are you unable to answer them?

    – – –

    "I am not saying anything that the mullahs are not saying. We both agree as what Islam teaches. The difference is that I dump all that dung on the Muslim at once to shock him and overwhelm him while the mullahs use their tact and gradually feed the hapless soul with that dung and he will swallow it all but one bite at a time. "

    hate and nothing more.

    He is in PARTICULARLY nasty mode.

    – – –

    "Muhammad Zakaria Razi, Khayyam, Al Arabi, al Farabi, Abu Ali Sina, Ibn Rushd, etc. None of these men were Muslim in the true meaning of the word. "

    Again – a well versed lie.

    – – –

    " Ibn Rushed was announced as a heretic"

    Doh! So were many others . . . but Muslim STILL hold them to be Muslims.

    Ibn Rush himself DECLARED to be Muslim. In fact he was SCHOLAR of Islam . . . A jurist.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Rushd

    – – –

    "Abu Ali Sina derided the concept of Day of Resurrection"

    Yet was STILL an accepted Muslim scholar. And he did NOT deride concept of Qiyamah – as Sina portrays.

    – – –

    "Omar Khayyam was derisive of all the ideas of the next word that is so fundamental to Islam"

    Yet STILL A Muslim. And his views ARE NOT what Sina claims.

    – – –

    "Please show me one scientist who got his inspiration from the Quran."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kindi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_Ray%E1%B8%A

    Three quick names.

    And the others . . . like Abu SIna, Ibn Rushd . . .

    By what these MEN said themselves. If you EVER had actually read any of them . . . . rather than just a quick glance at those Wiki pages.

    Even THEN you proceed to lie.

    – – –

    " The Quran is a contrary to science. How can such a book promote science?"

    Despite Evidence!

    – – –

    "Islamic finances is another fallacy. "

    No it isn't.

    Just good sense.

    NO USURY!

  306. Ali Sina says:

    How? It’s simple! When a person who believes the Quran is the word of God and reads that the unbelievers are worst than animal, that Muslims are the best creatures, that non-Muslims are najis and filthy, that they are arrogant and obstinate and despite seeing the truth of Islam reject it deliberately out of spite, and that Allah hates them and has sealed their hearts and has destined them to hell, it is natural that he will start hating the non-Muslims. His goodness disappears and he becomes a hate monger. He then becomes paranoid thinking all non-Muslims are evil people who are against him just because he has found the truth. He then comes to believe Muslims are victims, which is a total lie, and wants to take his “revenge” by killing all those evil non-believers, specially the Jews who are prophet-killers and Allah hated them so much that transformed them into pigs and monkeys.

    Young people are impressionable (a diplomatic way to say stupid). They can fall prey to Islamic deception and that is when they become suicide bombers.

    That is how. Of course you know it too but you have to challenge every word I say.

  307. Ali Sina says:

    In an article titled, “Is Rumi What We Think He Is?” Massoume Price quotes Dr. Shaffiee Kadkani who wrote, “Unfortunately, the emergence of geniuses such as Rumi and other urafa (religious mystics) who unconditionally supported Ash’ariyya, did not give freedom of thought a chance. If it wasn’t because of Ash’ariyya our history might have evolved differently”.

    Price contends:
    It is not a coincidence that in Mathnavi, Rumi attacks all thinkers including atheists, naturalists and philosophers etc…. When Ibn Khadon [Khaldun] said Africans are black because of geographical and environmental conditions, it was the Ash’ariyya who ended such scientific observations by declaring people are black because God created them as such. When Physicians tried to find the connection between the brain and hand’s movements, it was Imam Muhammad Ghazzali who mocked scientific inquiry and stated “hands move because God wants them to move” (Alchemy of Happiness, Kimiyaya Saadat). It was Ash’ariyya who imposed inquisition culture that still exists today and haunts us even in North America.

  308. Ali Sina says:

    I don’t think J Stillwater believes all Muslims are bad and if he does, he is wrong. Islam is bad, Muhammad was bad, but most Muslims have no clue about their religion. They are born in it and they project their own ideal religion into Islam. For these people Islam is the religion of love, tolerance and peace and that is why they fanatically cling to it and defend it. The problem is that they will gradually learn the truth and get used to is. If all the truth is presented to them at once, as I do, most of them will be aghast and will leave Islam in horror. But when the Islamic poison is given to them gradually, they slowly get used to it and see it as normal and good. Just as body can adapt to a killer bacteria if it is exposed to it gradually, in the form of vaccine, the mind also can accept evil when it is exposed to it gradually.

    I am not saying anything that the mullahs are not saying. We both agree as what Islam teaches. The difference is that I dump all that dung on the Muslim at once to shock him and overwhelm him while the mullahs use their tact and gradually feed the hapless soul with that dung and he will swallow it all but one bite at a time.

    The contribution of Islam to science and civilization is a delusion and a deception. A closer look will show that all that contribution came from men who did not believe in Islam, even though some of them called themselves Muslims to be able to survive in in that interstellar world. Who are these Islamic scientists? Muhammad Zakaria Razi, Khayyam, Al Arabi, al Farabi, Abu Ali Sina, Ibn Rushd, etc. None of these men were Muslim in the true meaning of the word. Ibn Rushed was announced as a heretic, Abu Ali Sina derided the concept of Day of Resurrection, Omar Khayyam was derisive of all the ideas of the next word that is so fundamental to Islam and al Razi openly called all the prophets to be charlatans. Please show me one scientist who got his inspiration from the Quran. Islam was an obstacle to free thinking and eventually destroyed it completely. Benighted men like al Ghazzali and Rumi left no room for rationalism and science. The Quran is a contrary to science. How can such a book promote science? Islamic finances is another fallacy. There is no such thing in Islam. Khomeini knew better. He said finance is for donkeys (eghtesad mal-e khare).

  309. aminthemystic says:

    As concept of Shirk is Islamic – this is rendered meaningless.

  310. aminthemystic says:

    Wow – what an intelligent comment.

    Getting PERSONAL now isn't.

    Like I said – you are a hate-monger.

    – – – –

    This site isn't about telling the truth about Islam . . .But the EXACT opposite.

    – – –

    You are ROUNDLY beaten in argument . . .

    what do you do?

    Get down and personal . . . .

    "Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

    So are you going answer?

  311. Ali Sina says:

    Muslims’ delusion has no bound.

  312. Joe says:

    @Slave

    Islam is SHIRK … Some self proclaimed writings that were invented by Mohammad..

    You say muslims are the best.. you are Shirk..

    Surely it is God that decides and God has decided since the bgining of time.. long before the quran and without your quran..

    Submit to God first and what God has created..

    you are shirk submiting to mohammad

  313. Joe says:

    @zitouni

    you cannot deny that quran justifies the taking of captives
    and you cannot deny that quran justifies sex with slaves
    and you cannot deny that Mohammad had slaves and had sex with his slaves

    YOU WANT TO BE LIKE MOHAMMAD!! Deny that!!

    here is a link to a man that was captured as a child in suddan and His experience in Suddan..
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSEJyVyUGoA

    and here is a activist in Kuwait that argues for slave agencies and justifies them according to Islamic law
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcpKisAsNM

    SURELY SLAVERY IS THE MOST SERIOUS CRIME IN THE EYES OF GOD AND HUMANITY

  314. aminthemystic says:

    "Ali Sina has risked his life and he answers the call of the millions of ancestors that have brutialized by islam and they call for justice.. "

    No he hasn't. NOT ONCE. . . .

    When he is beaten this is what he does:
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/22/imam-husseins-

    – – –

    "Yes of course! That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings. Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings! The writings of Rainbow, Zeitouni, Ali (the sinner) and every one of you Muslims. "

    – – –

    See the lies and hate . . . . specif and PERSONAL hate . . .

    Now do you have an answer?

    – – –

    What brother and sisters?

    He is NOTHING more than consumed with hate.

    How many evidences of this will you ignore?

  315. Joe says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

    the man's name is Bill warner and he has many posting on youtube

  316. Joe says:

    Ali Sina has risked his life to help educate his brothers and sisters that suffer because of islam.

    Ali Sina has risked his life and he answers the call of the millions of ancestors that have brutialized by islam and they call for justice..

    how many souls scream of for justice.. BAN ISLAM

  317. aminthemystic says:

    "No! I would say they are deluded Muslims. Of course I'd love them for being good people but they are good despite the Quran and at risk of learning the truth that the Quran is demanding them to hate and to kill and they may change overnight. "

    Or they are GOOD because of the Quran. Some would do evil deeds and claim Quran as inspiration. Others do good and hold Quran as their inspiration.

    Just like . . .

    Those who hold West and do good. Whilst other in its name do Evil. For example Bush and Co.

    – – –

    " By paying his zakat, he funds Islamic terrorism. "

    Here lies his lie . . . Zakah does NOT fund Terrorism. He says these htings . . .press him for evidence.

    No reply.

    How do I know?

    Previously saying and doing the same thing.

    – – –

    "You can't be a good person and a support of of the Nazi party too. "

    If we start on this road . . .

    We Muslim do NOT hold every American for the "Evil" its politicians and army does.

    – – –

    One cannot be a good person and support such evil.

    – – –

    = = =

    "Take the example of a good person who is a Muslim and he does not harm anyone, only goes to the mosque and pays his Zakat. By going to the mosque he affirms that Islam is still strong and this confirms the faith of other Muslims. That is one evil. By paying his zakat, he funds Islamic terrorism. That is another evil. Every Muslims contributes to evil. "

    Hence why every Muslim to him is guilty . . . and according to him Must be bombed into submission.

    – – –

    He will claim this is the type of this Islam is about . . . yet his method of stopping Muslims – is EXACTLY what he allegedly is against.

    One word: Hypocrisy.

  318. Ali Sina says:

    No! I would say they are deluded Muslims. Of course I’d love them for being good people but they are good despite the Quran and at risk of learning the truth that the Quran is demanding them to hate and to kill and they may change overnight.

    I was witness to this in my own life. Prior to the Islamic Revolution in Iran I knew many Persians who were not Islamic at all, except by name. They changed overnight during the revolution and supported a tyrant who massacred hundreds of thousands of innocent Iranians. Of course all of them repented but that was too late. The damage was already done and up to this day their children are paying for the stupidity of their parents.

    Take the example of a good person who is a Muslim and he does not harm anyone, only goes to the mosque and pays his Zakat. By going to the mosque he affirms that Islam is still strong and this confirms the faith of other Muslims. That is one evil. By paying his zakat, he funds Islamic terrorism. That is another evil. Every Muslims contributes to evil. A good human must leave Islam. You can’t be a good person and a support of of the Nazi party too.

  319. aminthemystic says:

    "I get my facts from the Quran and hadith. But thank you for the offer.
    "

    Yes .. . .but the "spin" is yours. And therein lies the problem. Obviously "zitouni" has no problem with the Quran.

    Not another poor reply . . . surely not!

  320. aminthemystic says:

    We were discussing how the Islam relates to meanings of Peace.
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-

    Here is of this site says:

    "The Myth:

    Lesser educated Muslims sometimes claim that the root word of Islam is “al-Salaam,” which is “peace” in Arabic.

    The Truth:

    An Arabic word only has one root. The root word for Islam is “al-Silm,” which means “submission” or “surrender.” There is no disagreement about this among Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word.

    Submission and peace can be very different concepts, even if a form of peace is often brought about through forcing others into submission. As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

    In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also commands them to subdue people of other religions until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its success in conquering other cultures."

    – – –

    "An Arabic word only has one root."

    Yes . . . but when you get into technicality of it – this is NOT how it is. . .especially when the next sentence is:

    "The root word for Islam is “al-Silm,” which means “submission” or “surrender.” "

    No it isn't. The three letter root is S-LM

    س ل م

    Pronounced: SaLiMa

    It relates to 2 verbal nouns – which most grammarians hold to be the source of this word they are:

    Salam and Salamah

    سلام سلامة

    What they mention "al-Silm" is more a derivative rather than the root.

    Second:

    al-Silm – means Peace. And not "Surrender" and "Submission".

    Reference:
    http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/

    – – –

    "There is no disagreement about this among Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word. "

    This is a COMPLETE lie. What scholars?

    I have tried asking. No reply.

    The logic that:

    "otherwise they would be the same word. "

    Is poor.

    You can have 2 different word or more meaning the same thing.

    – – –

    Now – YOU do not have to believe my word over theirs.

    Go and research this.

    In this case I know I am right.

    I have research and looked into it.

    – – –

    Lane's Lexicon highlighted above is a good source. As it is from Classical Arabic lexicons.

  321. Ali Sina says:

    “If he wants to know fact about Islam he can ask me becasue I can be teacher of liar Ali Sina ”

    I get my facts from the Quran and hadith. But thank you for the offer.

  322. aminthemystic says:

    "If you encounter information is critical of what you believe, it is normal to see it as anti or propaganda. "

    Sure . . . however Sites like religionofpeace ARE propaganda.

    One cannot say the same thing about Wiki – even though anyone can make changes to it. It is the policy – they are NOT about being either anti- or pro- something.

    Religionopeace IS biased. It is owned by Fundamentalist Christians. That is their perspective.

    Their IS nothing wrong with that per se. . . . however how these site are USED & UNDERSTOOD is different from site like Wiki or any other encyclopedia.

    Stat from relgionofpeace are different than say UN Stats. . .

    – – –

    "First, it is very unusual for people who are IN a religious movement, to be critical of it… and so, you will almost NEVER get an unbiased view from them"

    OBVIOUSLY NOT!

    Why would you be critical of something that you believe in . . . . ? Just fro the sake of being critical?

    That is NOT a state in which one could live – contently.

    – – –

    "Second, it is NORMAL for people INSIDE a religious movement to call any information critical of their religion BIASED. "

    I have explained the difference. Just see above.

    – – –

    " Third, just because someone from INSIDE the religious movement calls information critical of their religion BIASED, doesn't mean it IS biased. "

    Sure – I agree.

    – – –

    "Fourth, information that is critical to a religious movement isn't automatically "NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA." If the information IS negative, one must then ask if the information is accurate, not what is the motivation behind the person bringing the information. "

    Sure – I agree again.

    – – –

    "Consider a man wants to sleep with my wife… he comes to me and says: "I saw your wife making out with the milk man." Even though his intention is to get me to divorce my wife so he can have her, his information may be valid. What matters is the truth of the information, and NOT the intentions of the bearer of that information. "

    Sure . . . however . . . . say that you KNOW this man is your enemy . . . then you would instantly be cautious then say if this person was your friend or family.

    You would still seek the truth . . . .but your reaction and actions would be very different.

    – – –

    "the site: thereligionofpeace.com is a site who reports on atrocities committed on a daily basis by muslims. Remember, if muslims didn't say they were a religion of peace, that site wouldn't exist."

    Wrong!

    The site is by Christian Fundamentalists.

    It contains MANY information that is DELIBERATELY wrong.

    I am giving you an example in a separate post below.

    – – –

    "If muslims were honest, and truthfully stated to the world that they are a religion of slaughter, intolerance and oppression, they wouldn't need to worry about sites being critical of them. "

    Ha ha . . . do you NEED me to point out which logical fallacy this is . . . .

    You presuppose your answer.

    Islam ISN'T what you claim. That is simply your opinion. And that is it. My opinion is the opposite.

    – – –

    This is why people like you are brainwashed.

    You have ONLY read sites like these.

    Hence when referencing – you mainly go to them . . .

    Then when it is RIGHTLY pointed out . . . such and such site is Biased.

    Then you have to start making excuses.

    Look at what you claim above.

    Then below – you do the opposite.

    Isn't that dishonest!

    You set the standard – and you fall by it too.

  323. aminthemystic says:

    "as Ali Sina has pointed out he has a book and an open challenge which he offers you and you scholar to an open debate and $50k each if your prove hm wrong .. follow this link http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/the-cha…. for full details. "

    This is simply meaningless challenge.

    Sina has NO Intention of ever giving anyone $50K – as has stated. He is NEVER going to lose. Such challenges are aplenty on the net. Dogma and Rhetoric. Nothing more.

    – – –

    Actually ignoring IS the right thing to do . . . by Muslim scholars. He would otherwise seek to acquire undeserved merit by debating.

    As he already has implied – he is NOT going to admit defeat. . . despite the mounting evidence.

  324. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… If you encounter information is critical of what you believe, it is normal to see it as anti or propaganda.

    Here's why: First, it is very unusual for people who are IN a religious movement, to be critical of it… and so, you will almost NEVER get an unbiased view from them (so you must look elsewhere). Second, it is NORMAL for people INSIDE a religious movement to call any information critical of their religion BIASED. Third, just because someone from INSIDE the religious movement calls information critical of their religion BIASED, doesn't mean it IS biased. Fourth, information that is critical to a religious movement isn't automatically "NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA." If the information IS negative, one must then ask if the information is accurate, not what is the motivation behind the person bringing the information.

    Consider a man wants to sleep with my wife… he comes to me and says: "I saw your wife making out with the milk man." Even though his intention is to get me to divorce my wife so he can have her, his information may be valid. What matters is the truth of the information, and NOT the intentions of the bearer of that information.

    the site: thereligionofpeace.com is a site who reports on atrocities committed on a daily basis by muslims. Remember, if muslims didn't say they were a religion of peace, that site wouldn't exist. If muslims were honest, and truthfully stated to the world that they are a religion of slaughter, intolerance and oppression, they wouldn't need to worry about sites being critical of them.

    J Stillwater

  325. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Joe, the presentation does not appear on my screen. Kindly repost.

  326. Ali Sina says:

    Please see this article. http://alisina.org/blog/2012/03/01/the-golden-rul
    I think it will answer your question.

  327. aminthemystic says:

    "in the world of information sharing on the internet, it is customary to cite authors and give them credit whenever possible. The information found at the link I posted is not authored by the owners of that site… and so they are not the source. I gave Muslim Man the source, as quoted by that site. The author of that information is Richard Hooker from Washington State University and he is the copyright holder of that information. "

    Actually you cite where you got the INFO form – which was from Virtual Jewish Library. . . and NOT from WSU.

    It creates the wrong impression – and is not honest.

    – – –

    "The whole idea of an "outline" is that it is not comprehensive,"

    No – Just because something is an outline – it doesn't make it comprehensive. It makes it the OPPOSITE of comprehensive.

    – – –

    "Your response to my statement about laying blame on westerners is a straw man argument. Here's why:
    If I had said: "Before there were westerners, there was bloodshed in ample supply in that region, and therefore, it excuses the abuses of the west in recent centuries." Then your response would have been a correct rebuttal. I never made the claim that past violence excuses the west. I stated that mayhem existed in that region before there were westerners to blame for it. "

    Actually that is NOT what you said.

    You are saying it now.

    Once more a false accusation of fallacy . . .

    Here is what I said. . .

    " long before there were "westerners" who the blame could be laid upon by muslims "

    Which is no excuse for the West for its past and violence.

    And this is no straw-man . . .

    As i simply point out . . . whatever violence West commits it is responsible for it.

    Anything more you read into it . . .is YOU interpretation.

    Which I can on the same basis as you . . . .accuse you of er . . .

    "straw-maning"!

    – – –

    THINK!

    Before making accusations.

  328. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, you have found Quran and hadith teaching violence. What is your position regarding the other parts of Quran and hadith which instructed pople to do good?

  329. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… in the world of information sharing on the internet, it is customary to cite authors and give them credit whenever possible. The information found at the link I posted is not authored by the owners of that site… and so they are not the source. I gave Muslim Man the source, as quoted by that site. The author of that information is Richard Hooker from Washington State University and he is the copyright holder of that information.

    The fact that the link doesn't open is something you'll have to discuss with the webmaster of that page.

    I never claimed the information was a detailed treatment of the subject. The whole idea of an "outline" is that it is not comprehensive, but gives someone names and dates and locations upon which they can build their own study if they wish to do so.

    Your response to my statement about laying blame on westerners is a straw man argument. Here's why:
    If I had said: "Before there were westerners, there was bloodshed in ample supply in that region, and therefore, it excuses the abuses of the west in recent centuries." Then your response would have been a correct rebuttal. I never made the claim that past violence excuses the west. I stated that mayhem existed in that region before there were westerners to blame for it.

    J Stillwater

  330. zitouni says:

    Infidel kafir said : I see that you are a real JIHADIST ,

    Yes I am and so is liar Ali Sina he is too Jihadist of falsehood

    Infidel kafir said : and you are shivering , knowing that this Moslem man will leave ISLAM and desert it, if he reads Dr. ALI SINA's book or get real truth and knowledge

    Ali the liar got no knowledge he is not scholar of anything about islam. The liar has zero crendiels on Islam and I have proved it here in this forum . What he write about islam is bunch of crap LOL

    Infidel kafir said : after reading the articles in this web site. This is expected . ISLAM lives by fear and death . ISLAM survives in darkness and ignorance. Knowledge & Light will dispel and destroy ISLAM ..

    Where did I threaten the mans life I just warned him to stay away from this liar and ignorant mossad and CIA agents thats all . If he wants to know fact about Islam he can ask me becasue I can be teacher of liar Ali Sina

  331. FreeThinker says:

    Muslim men seem to suffer enormous pressure from their families to marry a woman of their own "breed" and make Muslim babies. A non-Muslim woman will hardly be welcome into the family. I once new a 40 year-old who told me his mother was putting pressure on him to get married, and soon after he married a 1st cousin almost half his age. I wonder is that normal? This man was brought up in Europe and has a PhD. And yet he committed the insanity of marrying a cousin, even though he was well aware of the risks, being a son of cousins himself. Strong personality he has, huh? In these cultures marriage is nothing but a commercial transaction, it has nothing to do with love. Most of them plan on getting married late (after 40), after having enjoyed life to the full and committed all the "sins".
    Muslim men are definitely fruit not to eat, unless you want to get into such a whole lot of trouble that not even Allah knows where it might end!

  332. aminthemystic says:

    " here is an outline of islamic civilization from Washington State University."

    This is what I point out . . . dishonesty.

    The page actually open at:
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Histo

    And their source link doesn't open.

    – – –

    "What I call your attention to is the fact that violence and strife and bloodshed has been a part of islamic history"

    Every single Civilization on Earth has similar history.

    The trick is in . . .

    "here is an outline of islamic civilization"

    Such generalities do not equal what sum of Muslim Civilization is and was.

    – – –

    " long before there were "westerners" who the blame could be laid upon by muslims "

    Which is no excuse for the West for its past and violence.

    – – –

    " muslims afraid to look their demons in the face. "

    What demons?

  333. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… here is an outline of islamic civilization from Washington State University. It is an annotated timeline of events throughout islamic history regarding the development of islam as a religion and as a state entity. It discusses the conflicts between muslim leaders and tribes and if pretty much just straight forward history of events.

    What I call your attention to is the fact that violence and strife and bloodshed has been a part of islamic history since the very beginning, long before there were "westerners" who the blame could be laid upon by muslims afraid to look their demons in the face.

    CLICK HERE (opens in new window).

    J Stillwater

  334. J_Stillwater says:

    @zitouni… let's go back in time… back before there were "white men" who wanted to "subjugate" muslims…

    Let's just go back to the time of muhammad… forget the "white man" for a moment… let's go back… back in time… 500 years… going back… 1000 years… still further back… 1400 years… back before muslims stormed Uthman's house and assassinated him… back before ali was assassinated by a muslim… back before the slaughter that resulted during the time of the Qays and the Kalb tribes… before the Abassids, back to muhammad… and back to three particular events:

    1. the Massacre of Banu Quraiza
    2. the Massacre of Khaybar
    3. the Massacre of Banu Mustaliq

    Now… let's imagine we are simply looking at a man and trying to determine whether this man is an exemplary model to follow. Let's imagine we are just looking for someone we can look to for teachings in moral goodness and spiritual righteousness… let's forget the old man that muhammad had assassinated… and the nursing mother… and the old woman torn in half by two camels… let's forget them for a moment… and just look at muhammad's behavior after the above three battles… Oh… and let's consult islamic histories and the qur'an references that confirm those histories… CLICK HERE (opens in new page), read the page, and then, come back and tell me why you are not sickened by what you read, and why you believe I should follow this man and believe he is a divine prophet from god, instead of hating him with every fiber of my being.

    J Stillwater

  335. aminthemystic says:

    "Now… another logic class is in order"

    huh?

    See what a dishonest and treacherous person you are.

    When pressed for a simple answer on your "fallacies"

    claims . . . you cannot answer.

    Then you pretend . . . somehow

    You have knowledge of logic.

    Which you don't

    – – –

    Yesterday I once more I showed you up.

    – – –

    "You have assumed two things… 1. that I celebrate christmas… and 2. that i come here to get my kicks….
    "

    You are ACTUALLY wrong . . .

    this is NOT circular reasoning.

    Which is:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

    – – –

    People like you assume – just because they will throw names of few

    "fallacies"

    they will come across as "clever"

    – –

    Sure versus someone who doesn't know their onions. . .

    But versus someone who does. . .

    – – –

  336. aminthemystic says:

    "(see "thereligionofpeace.com" for the latest muslim body count). "

    A site dedicated to anti Islam propaganda. It is READ as such. And doesn't equal to independent stats . . .

    When you are REPEATEDLY only able to bring biased sites . . . this shows YOUR brainwashing.

    As I previously alluded – objective studies lead to "truth" or at least more authoritative version . . .

    For example . . . when compared to killings by West . . . the numbers stack in favour of Muslims.

    We are STILL far more "peaceful"

    – – –

    And Muslims ARE the most peaceful of people.

    Especially compared to the death toll of West and its offspring.

    Just at the turn of the century WW1 and 2 body count is shocking.

    Add that to the European colonial adventures . . . .

    What peace?

    – – –

    " This is because in islam, there is the Dar al salam, and the Dar al harb (house of war). In other words, inside islam is peace… outside is jihad. "

    Sure . . . BUT who doesn't have similar concept?

    Inside West there is peace . . . . outside they are involved with many Wars.

    Sina was pathetically waving USA stats about very proudly a week or so ago. . .

    So that is peace to you?

    At least Bush was somewhat honest – either you are with us or against us . . .

    Imperialism, Colonialism . . . .Enforcement . . . In other words . . . there is only one way.

  337. infidel/kafir says:

    Moslem man ::: You are in a fantasy world filled with all lies, deception and dishonesty and cruelty. Read SIRA, READ HADIS, READ QQUURRAAN. See and observe and think and analyze using your intelligence and thinking power . Look at ISLAMIC culture, ISLAMIC countries, ISLAMIC history, ISLAMIC rules, sharia , etc etc. It is all cruel, evil, barbaric, hatefilled and discriminatory. ISLAM is based on fear, terror , hatred and killing., sex and slavery. all of this is true.ISLAM is a terrible, terrible religion. ISLAM does not belong in human civilization. No spiritual value in ISLAM.

  338. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    Abid its good to see that now you are not abusing based on your conclusions which disturb fellow Muslims intellectually, emotionally ! You can comfortably raise question which clashes with your morality or understanding. But using emotional intelligence or your own frustration to abuse, to evoke Muslims Sorry !!!

    Technically there is nothing like ex-Muslim . Its inherited from girlfriend-boyfriend drama in this generation and ex-of them.

    Lets talk about whats your new identity to be

    When you left Islam
    if you don't believe in God then you are atheist.
    If you are uncertain then you are agnostic.
    If you believe in God but don't believe Muhammad as the messenger of God then you are theist (depend on what religion you started practicing) but not Muslim

    In any way whatever you be finally, If you keep bitching, insulting, hurting with intention to damage , hammer , attack against Islam ! You will be enemy !

  339. infidel/kafir says:

    I see that you are a real JIHADIST , and you are shivering , knowing that this Moslem man will leave ISLAM and desert it, if he reads Dr. ALI SINA's book or get real truth and knowledge after reading the articles in this web site. This is expected . ISLAM lives by fear and death . ISLAM survives in darkness and ignorance. Knowledge & Light will dispel and destroy ISLAM ..

  340. Abid says:

    I said: "Muslims do not believe Islam or Muhammad directly from God's inspiration or command but from their forefathers' words. "
    Here you have made Belief and Knowledge one. I was talking about Belief and you are citing example of 'Knowledge'. See, Who is DISHONEST. It is you who is DISHONEST not ME.
    A Belief is inculcated not Knowledge. Knowledge is imparted. Because knowldege does not need to be internalized. A belief should be based on one's own knowledge and understanding not on forfathers or others, judged by logic, common sense, conscience and human centric morals.

  341. Abid says:

    I am confused what I do, shall I cry or shall I laugh. When these muslims claim that even I am not an ex-muslim. As I have already said in my previous comment:
    "Better all muslims above claim that there no ex-muslims in this forum, there is only Ali Sina or ( some Jews or Christian with a name changed) is writing by changing names as different persons. Denying & Lying are the main weapons of muslims to defend Islam, else they don't have anything else"
    AMINRIADH is repeating the same thing that I am not an ex-muslim. Even Ali Sina is not an ex one. Everyone is Jews or Christians, infidels( All the enemy of Islam). Did any muslim have ever think why there is enemies of only Islam, Why everyone is enemy of islam, Jews, Christians, Hindus? I will tell you 'Why'! because Islam is the enemy of ALL.
    Pls AMINRIADH, for your Allah sake, pls tell me how are you going to believe that I am an ex-muslim.

  342. zitouni says:

    Muslim man said : I will read Mr Sina's writing hoping it will increase and improve my understanding about Islam. Mr Sina seems to be very knowledgable about Islam and about life of the Prophet, although he has failed to find one bit of goodness in them.

    Are you nuts you want to learn Islam from an ignorant person . All this ignorant knows is hate and attacking the prophet. He is liar he claimed that he read koran in Arabic and I caught him lying I got the proof of that in this site if you want to see it .

  343. zitouni says:

    Muslim man stop debating this hypocrite , liar amd racist Jstillwater you are wasting your time . He cannot even reply to my rebutall and keep bringing the same argument again and again even after I destroyed them. He is white man who wants to subjugate Muslim steal money and natural sources and meantime he is talking Muslims are planning to take the world . He does not talk about killing that his people are doing right now in Muslim world because Muslim are guilty of telling white men to stay in his back yard and thats crime for them and Muslims got to pay price for that

  344. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… clarification… I understand that muslims can find verses in the qur'an that give them a "source of value and inspiration." Those verses exist… and so do the verses that tell muslims to become savages. And on top of these verses… you have the tafseers, and the hadith… where muslims learn about the actions of muhammad and where they learn about his behaviors like allowing someone to be pulled in half by a camel, or slitting the throats of 900 jews in one day.

    Please remember, many of the most senior men in the most brutal terrorist organizations in the world are educated men… entrepreneurs, investors, muslim doctors and scientists, lawyers, financial mangers, etc., and they read the same qur'an you read… and they find children… show them the verses in the qur'an that talk about martyrs and how they will receive paradise filled with sex and gluttony… and they strap a bomb on them… which was built by a highly educated muslim engineer… and off they go to kill innocent people…

    The problem is not the people… it is the content of your religion… it is a jumble of contradictions and inaccuracies… it is so convoluted you need to have your own "science" to unravel it for the ummah. The problem with THAT is… the "opinions" of your "jurists" can change, as they have all through islamic history. One minute you have one who agrees with child marriage… the next you don't… and it will always be like this… it must… because all these conflicting ideas are in your qur'an to be argued over for eternity.

    J Stillwater

  345. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… correction… I don't have the notion that all muslims are bad… and I have no illusions about the barbarity of your "islamic heritage." The worse thing that could ever happen in the world is a return to "islamic civilization." You seem to be deluded into thinking "islamic civilization" somehow means progress. You speak of it, and then in the next sentence you speak of progressive ideas. You seem to forget that it was the spread of islam and the drive for religious conquest of muslims, that lead to the "dark ages" in human history. It was a time of ruthless slaughter of millions, the enslavement of millions of africans, slavs, and asians, the subjugation of once thriving and progressive nations (persia, babylon, egypt), and on and on. And it was only after the crusades sent armies out to kill the invading muslims and drive them back into the desert, that the enlightenment was possible. Are you claiming you are ignorant of these historical facts? None of the advancements you speak of would be possible if the crusaders had not curbed the slaughter brought by your forbears.

    Islamic heritage is the drive for conquest and the subjugation of all non-muslim peoples. Look, I'm not making this stuff up here… it is in your qur'an… and it is this qur'an that drove your islamic heritage. Why is it that muslims insist on redrafting the story of their history? Is it so abhorrent that muslims have to make up pretty stories about a period in human history that was her worst?

    Please stop trying to suggest I am somehow not being balanced, or that I am being hateful toward muslims. It is an ad hominem attack and I think it is below you. You yourself mentioned that muslims have made "mistakes of the past." I'm suggesting that these mistakes are not just "of the past," but are still with us.

    J Stillwater

  346. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… I don't have an "unfavorable" attitude toward muslims. I have a justified attitude toward muslims who are acting unfavorably. The problem is not muslims… muslims are people… and people are the same everywhere… the problem is islam… the destroyer of progress and civilization…

    With regard to advancements made in "muslim" countries… advancements were the norm in these countries before muhammad came along with his allah… if advancements are being made… it is in spite of islam…

    for example… these muslims are currently killing these polio vaccine workers because they "fear" that it is a conspiracy to destroy islam… you see what I mean?

    The very muslims you mention, who are working to "cure diseases" are being undermined by the very muslims they are trying to help… this is madness.

    You have assumed that I don't have "up to date" information, and then, you use this false notion to go on and suggest how I've been rendered "unable" to look at the world in a balanced manner (whatever "balanced" means)… Do you see the circular nature of this reasoning?

    J Stillwater

  347. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… I don't celebrate christmas… to me… it is just another day… preceeding really prime shopping days…

    And… I'm not here to get my kicks…

    Now… another logic class is in order… do you see, just in your last statement, your reasoning is circular? You have assumed two things… 1. that I celebrate christmas… and 2. that i come here to get my kicks….

    Do you see this? Hopefully everybody else does.

    J Stillwater

  348. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… first of all… faithful muslims follow muhammad… if muslims follow muhammad… they will do what muhammad did… muhammad was not a peaceful man… he was a murderous hothead… he robbed the caravans of, and then, slaughtered his neighbors and took their women and children captive… and in many cases sexually violated the women on the very day he killed their families (click here)… He ordered the assassination of an old poet and a mother in her sleep as she nursed her newborn baby, just because they spoke against him… Faithful muslims follow the example of their prophet… Muslims are not told to be peaceful… they are told to fight, and subdue… Behold:

    "Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizia [Humiliation Tax] with submission, and feel themselves subdued.Qur'an {9: 29)

    Why hide the fact that you are commanded to bring war, oppression, death and humiliation to the people around you who don't submit to your religion of madness? Why hide behind this false facade of "peace?" You are commanded in the verse above to FIGHT those who don't accept your religion, subdue them, and make them pay a humiliation tax if they don't convert to islam…Why can't you just be proud of the fact that you are called upon to kill, humiliate, enslave and oppress? Why is it so important for muslims to convince the rest of the world that they are a peaceful people?

    J Stillwater

  349. J_Stillwater says:

    @Slave of prophet… false. Your statement is false. Muslims are NOT the most peaceful people in the world (see "thereligionofpeace.com" for the latest muslim body count). Muslims seem to think that peace is the absence of war. This is because in islam, there is the Dar al salam, and the Dar al harb (house of war). In other words, inside islam is peace… outside is jihad.

    For a non-muslim, peace means freedom and democracy, the assurance that their neighbor is not plotting to take over their country in the name of some false religion. Peace means the comfort in knowing, if I want to say muhammad did reprehensible things, I don't have to expect some nutjob coming to my house asking for a bullet in his chest.

    For a non-muslim, peace means the freedom to decide what religion to follow, and what clothing to wear, and what music to listen to, and what recreational past times to engage in, without having to worry about being beheaded by the crazed follower of a womanizing, slave owning, child lusting, caravan robbing, blaspheming, ego-maniac.

    Allah doesn't exist outside the imagination of muslims… allah is one of the idols from the ka'ba, nothing more (do you feel that anger inside you right now? That is NOT peace, it is YOU wanting to tell ME who and what to respect, which is NOT your choice to make… it is MINE). What muhammad did was establish a legacy of confusion that muslims will be fighting each other over until they destroy the world. You have to first prove that islam is true before you shove it down the throats of the rest of humanity… you have to first prove muhammad's claims that Adam was 60 cubits tall and satan lives in your nose.

    J Stillwater

  350. Joe says:

    Dear Muslim Man,

    tell me how can i trust a man who believes that the unbeliever of your book is vile!
    How can i trust a man that believes it is ok to take captives and slaves!
    How ca i trust a person who want to be like mohammad who was a savage war monger!

    I know good muslim people, but that is because they are good people.. islam is what poisons the minds of the innocent

  351. Joe says:

    Dear Muslim Man,

    the say the to repeat the same thing over and over again and expect a different result is a form of insanity.

    you say islam is peaceful.. but look at this presentation from a man who has studied the facts.. you will see a graphical view and the statistics of how many wars have been started by islam.. the people who have suffered most are muslims.. is that the future you want for your family? more death and destruction

  352. Joe says:

    @aminthedenier

    once again denial of the facts.. do you think this is the path to God.. denial of truth?

    Mosab Yousef is the oldest son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a charismatic founding member of Hamas.. FACT
    So as the oldest son of a Hamas Leader, what do you think? would Mosab Yousef have received the best Islamic instruction that was avaiable?
    the Best education available?

    read the story for your self you can download from http://sonofhamas.com/

  353. Joe says:

    @zitouni

    IF you quran is perfect and from god then there would be no conflict..

    but look .. sunni hate shiites who hate suffis and fight everyone else..

    the quran is not from god it is from man that is why there is so much fightings, killing and war.. JUST FACE IT

  354. Slave of prophet says:

    @J Stillwater
    Islam means submission to the will of Allah. Muslim are most peaceful people of the world. Islam does not need recognition from Kufr/non-believers as peaceful religion because Allah himself said Muslim are best people and best creature. Our prophet Mohammed was messenger of peace and established peace all over the world by establishing Islam.

  355. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, I have a question for you. If Muslims continue to refer to the Quran and insist that Islam means peace, and they contribute to peaceful work. Will you accept them being faithful Muslims?

  356. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina,

    My response was directed to J Stillwater, who seems to have a view that all Muslims are bad, all Muslims are killers; as if (?) he denies the existense of good and intellectual Muslims, who continue to achieve higher in their fields of work, and continue to stick to their Islamic heritage. You may want to clarify this to J Stillwater since he seems to have very high respect for you.

    Great ideas often begin with something many people believe to be wishful thinking. But the return of Islamic civilization to world's mainstream conversation is no longer a wishful thinking. People are beginning to appreciate the contribution of Muslim scientists, Muslim entrepreneurs and investors, Muslim thinkers, Islamic financial management, etc who continue to refer to the Quran as their source of value and inspiration.

  357. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Ali Sina, if Islam has hindered the development of good qualities why do we continue to see intelligent and good people among Muslims, and an increasing number of them. Did you actually mean "had Islam not hindered the development of such qualities, we would have found even more good Muslims."?

  358. aminthemystic says:

    Doh!

    I [email protected] believe you. I don't believe a WORD of what you say.

    NEITHER am I interested in what happens to Google. . . . in an hypothetical situation.

    – – –

    See the absurdity:

    "be able to google is… oh nevermind… gotta run along and have a life… "

    Even YOU gave up on it.

    – – –

    Matey – it must have been SHIT Christmas for you . . .

    If you come here to get your kicks!

  359. aminthemystic says:

    "you and I have been going round and round for over two hours"

    In several different matters – yet there is implication – which false that it is ABOUT this.

    – – –

    "and in all that time you've not posted ONE link to proof of your claim to have defeated anyone."

    Which I answered when asked.

    – – –

    " I've been waiting… hoping… and nothing… so when, after SO LONG a time… I said: "finally, you post a link." "

    Where?

    This is simply DISHONEST.

    – –

    ""why couldn't you have done this two hours ago, before my fingers went all bloody from frenzied typing?""

    Where DID you ask me THIS 2 hours ago?

    Where?

    – – –

    If you NOTICE.

    You are trying to avoid answering . . .
    Charges against you.

    Then there WAS a charade over Islam and its meaning.

    And etc.

    THIS IS A BASELESS ATTACK AND ACCUSATION.

    AND IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO AVOID ANSWERING WHAT I HAVE ASKED YOU.

    IN FACT THE REVERSE OF WHAT YOU CLAIM IS TRUE.

  360. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… believe me… if the world was run by muslims… there would BE no google… or maybe there would be… but all you'd be able to google is… oh nevermind… gotta run along and have a life…

    J Stillwater

  361. aminthemystic says:

    I don't think you have any answers . . . and I don't EVEN think I asked any questions about this article. . . and I have NEVER asked you to write it.

    It has NOTHING to do with me. Hence I refused to answer.

    I DON'T care.

    – – –

    This IS a charade . . . and it turned into one. You wrote SEVERAL comments – implying you were going to comeback . . .then this ARTICLE excuse came.

    I am NO LONGER interested.

    Over and DONE with.

    This ALLEGED article had got nothing to do with me.

    – – –

    I noticed SOMEONE has answered you. . .

    Hence you have GOT an answer . . . . just use that.

    – – –

    I am NOT playing – endless questions with you.

    I will say something . . .then you will go and make something up . . . and whatnot. All is game playing.

    It has NOTHING to do with me.

  362. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… no attack… you and I have been going round and round for over two hours… and in all that time you've not posted ONE link to proof of your claim to have defeated anyone… I've been waiting… hoping… and nothing… so when, after SO LONG a time… I said: "finally, you post a link."

    This is not an attack. I'm actually saying: "why couldn't you have done this two hours ago, before my fingers went all bloody from frenzied typing?"

    J Stillwater

  363. aminthemystic says:

    ". in mathematical set theory… some things are contained in sets with other things…. and each of those things has its own set… so… if I mention visitors who can use google to begin to learn how to do their own research on islam… I MUST be speaking of the set of those who are just learning about islam… a priori… and NOT speaking of those who don't… in the set called "visitors" there is a "subset" of people who have no idea about islam… or how to study it… "

    Excuse – and it is taking away from the fact that . . . .

    It is WRONG in the first place to suggest it.

    And in the above argument – meaningless.

    And it contradicts what you claim here:
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/19/bitter-love-an

    "Now, the readers can actually take a look at your reasoning and see if it is sound… this is MUCH better than just saying you've defeated someone…. and it is more academic as well… because it gives references for people to quote… etc.
    "

    – – –

    Also – Googling IS NOT doing research. There is more to it than that.

    Think about it . . . virtually EVERYONE knows what Google is and does and HOW to find info.

    Unless they are newbie to Internet.

    – – –

    "The reason I said to google it… is because it provides a quick resource for someone to study what an exegetical fallacy is without me having to waste characters in this little text entry box"

    NO ONE ASKED YOU TO SAY WHAT THE FALLACY IS.

    You were asked how it relates to what I said. How is it that I have committed it – the reasoning behing lobbing this false accusation at me.

    – – –

    "just trying to put google to good use before the muslims outlaw it.
    "

    A bit pathetic.

  364. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… you are fearful that i will continue to ask you questions after you answer the question about the ten commandments… I promise you I will not… but I will probably ask clarifying questions about your answer… only questions relating to your answer… and not other questions relating to other things… so… if you're ready to answer… I'm certainly ready to hear your answer… if you need me to restate the question about the ten commandments in the format in which I first asked it… please let me know…

    J Stillwater

  365. aminthemystic says:

    "finally… you post a link… thank you! See how easy that was? Now, the readers can actually take a look at your reasoning and see if it is sound… this is MUCH better than just saying you've defeated someone…. and it is more academic as well… because it gives references for people to quote… etc. "

    This is ANOTHER attack form you . . . implying that previously I have NOT given out proof – when asked.

    Which is NOT the case.

    – – –

    One cannot and does not – give claims out every time.

    But when CHALLENGED or ASKED FOR – then . . . YOU HAVE TO.

    Else your claims loose merit.

  366. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… in mathematical set theory… some things are contained in sets with other things…. and each of those things has its own set… so… if I mention visitors who can use google to begin to learn how to do their own research on islam… I MUST be speaking of the set of those who are just learning about islam… a priori… and NOT speaking of those who don't… in the set called "visitors" there is a "subset" of people who have no idea about islam… or how to study it…

    The reason I said to google it… is because it provides a quick resource for someone to study what an exegetical fallacy is without me having to waste characters in this little text entry box… no big conspiracy… just trying to put google to good use before the muslims outlaw it.

    J Stillwater

  367. aminthemystic says:

    " finally… you post a link… thank you! See how easy that was? Now, the readers can actually take a look at your reasoning and see if it is sound… this is MUCH better than just saying you've defeated someone"

    Sure when asked . . . I give out evidence/proof for what I claim.

    As I practice what I preach.

    – – –

    Unlike you . . . I do NOT say . . .

    Just Google it.

    I could have said – just find it.

    – – –

    "this is MUCH better than just saying you've defeated someone…. and it is more academic as well… because it gives references for people to quote… etc. "

    Something which I say.

    Hence I ask YOU for proof. . .

    For example YOUR claim . . . that

    I ONLY ever attack people.

    For which when asked for proof. . . YOU gave NONE.

    And attempted to make counter-claim as an answer.

    – – –

    "Now… can you give us the link to the actual comment posts? Were you using your intense debate screen name at that time? If not… can you give me the date? I can use the date to find it on Mr. Sina's intense debate page… "

    See the bottom . . . of page two.

    it not ONE comment.

    There are several there.

    – – –

    Starting with comment saying:

    "On page four of his book, he states:

    "It is to be expected that believers would elevate the status of their prophet, falsely attribute miracles to him and make him look saintly. In the biography of Muhammad, however, we also find thousands of accounts that do not portra"

    I couldn't get the comment Id.

  368. aminthemystic says:

    "the "doh!" between your ears comment is an observation, not an attack… and this the "may be between your ears" as opposed to: "you have dough between your ears." "

    In that case . . . I make observations to. Or did you NOT get there. It isn't an observation and you know it.

    – – –

    "I challenged your claim… in order to challenge your claim, I must give my argument… which is: "all I encounter from you is attacks, etc." "

    Which IS your claim . . counter claims doesn't answer it.

    – – –

    "That statement about the attacks, is my challenge to your claim… which is: "you've defeated people, etc." "

    No it isn't . . . you cannot make claims as answers.

    Fallacious.

    You can challange something of mine – separate.

    Answers to YOUR claims is up to you to answer.

    – – –

    Actually – I answered . . . .

    Where i have defeated Sina.

    And I also said I have defeated YOU.

    Hence – just pointing this out is lying:

    ""sure…. on such person is YOU."

    As I said further:

    In particular . . . http://alisina.org/blog/2012/08/10/the-sound-sane….

    Arguments over his book and its methodology – which he COULD NOT answer.

    – – –

  369. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… finally… you post a link… thank you! See how easy that was? Now, the readers can actually take a look at your reasoning and see if it is sound… this is MUCH better than just saying you've defeated someone…. and it is more academic as well… because it gives references for people to quote… etc.

    Now… can you give us the link to the actual comment posts? Were you using your intense debate screen name at that time? If not… can you give me the date? I can use the date to find it on Mr. Sina's intense debate page…

    J Stillwater

  370. aminthemystic says:

    No – those two are excuses . . .

    "it is better for the readers who visit the site to learn how to do their own research on islam"

    Why do you assume that "visitors" don't know how to do er . . . research already?

    – – –

    Actually the above shows – you did NOT really have and argument.

    I clearly laid out – exactly HOW Islam relates to the word "Peace".

    – – –

    In the above "google it" doesn't give answer. It meaninglss.

    You could say this to EVERY argument. When you are asked for evidence, references and proof.

    Answer – just Google it.

    This is not accepted to be true.

    – – –

    Specifically in the above case it is meaningless. You tried to create an argument – where ne doesn't exist.

    I gave my answer. . . and I know what I am talking about.

  371. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… the "doh!" between your ears comment is an observation, not an attack… and this the "may be between your ears" as opposed to: "you have dough between your ears."

    I challenged your claim… in order to challenge your claim, I must give my argument… which is: "all I encounter from you is attacks, etc."

    That statement about the attacks, is my challenge to your claim… which is: "you've defeated people, etc."

    It is my practice to provide my "reasoning" up front in most cases… so… my "reasoning" for challenging your claim, is that you "always attack people instead of their reasoning… or you always say things like: "that's a lie" etc., without going on to give your proofs that it is a lie, etc… you simply make the statement… and then you go on to claim victory…

    So… for clarity… one final time… I have challenged your assertion that you have defeated people here. I have provided my REASONS for challenging your claim. I've CLEARLY stated them. I then gave you a sterling example of my reasoning using one of your succeeding posts…

    And… so that the readers can see still another example of my "reasons" for saying what I've said about your claim… behold your last post… "sure…. on such person is YOU."

    J Stillwater

  372. J_Stillwater says:

    aminriadh/aminthemystic… actually… whenever you see me refer to google… it is for two reasons… 1.) it is better for the readers who visit the site to learn how to do their own research on islam… and 2.) it is easier.

    J Stillwater

  373. aminthemystic says:

    " the doh! may be between your ears"

    You claim – making such comments is er . .. attacks and whatnot – yet you do it! Doh!

    Which would make you a hypocrite

    – – –

    "Then I go on to say that all you do is attack. So, if you"

    See – you ADMIT to the charge . . .

    Yet this is clearly wrong – as I have pointed it out:

    "You said – the only thing I do is make attacks and that is it!

    I asked you to prove it.

    And you haven't. "

    – – –

    "I'm challenging your claims that you've defeated anyone… "

    Sure . . . one such person is YOU.

    Another is Sina. . . .

    In particular . . .
    http://alisina.org/blog/2012/08/10/the-sound-sane

    Arguments over his book and its methodology – which he COULD NOT answer.

  374. aminthemystic says:

    " as I've stated… and as can be studied at length online… just google "does islam mean peace" and you'll get both sides of the argument… "

    This is NO answer. As I have explained EXACTLY How Islam relates to peace. . .

    If you have read something . . . then post it up.

    Saying:

    ". just google "does islam mean peace" and you'll get both sides of the argument… "

    is simply absurd.

    – – –

    "There is a huge difference between saying: "being IN islam will bring you peace,""

    NO ONE HAS SAID THIS.

    – – –

    "which translates to "being IN submission will bring you salam""

    NO IT DOES NOT.

    – – –

    "and it is quite another thing entirely to say that "salam=islam,""

    Something NO ONE has said.

    I explained CLEARLY how Islam relates to Peace.

    There is NO POINT explaining it again.

    – – –

    "You can say that the dar es salam is "found within submission to allah" but you cannot say the dar es salam IS submission to allah… do you see the difference here? "

    huh? Worng. Dar es Salam is reference to Islam the religion.

    I have explained this above.

    – – –

    "Another example is the fact that in islam… there is the dar al islam… which means "house of islam.""

    In other words – Islam is "House of Peace"

    – – –

    "There is "dar al harb" which mens "house of war" etc. These all are references to islam… "

    NO this is WRONG.

    "dar al harb" is NOT a reference to Islam. No one says Dar al-harb and mean Islam.

    – – –

    "islam is submission… so… there is a "house of peace" found in the "house of submission…" etc. "

    Actually Islam the word means Submission. Verbal noun of Aslama – form IV of Salama

    Islam technically is reference to the religion.

    So is Silm and Dar es Salam. Where as Islam means Submission.

    These word mean Peace. [Linguistically]

    – – –

    "Exegetical fallacy… google… happiness… "

    In other words . . . NO ANSWER.

  375. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… the doh! may be between your ears… here's why I say this…

    My actual statement, which you can find a this link is as follows:
    "I paid your page a visit the other day, because I wanted to see if I could substantiate your claim that you've been answering people's accusations regarding islam. What I found was what I expected to find."

    Then I go on to say that all you do is attack. So, if you compare my original post with your quote of my later post above… you will see that they are regarding the same thing… I'm challenging your claims that you've defeated anyone…

    J Stillwater

  376. aminthemystic says:

    "see what I mean? this is how you always respond… I say I'm writing an article… you ridicule the time it takes… that is an appeal to ridicule…"

    No it isn't.

    Appeal to ridicule is . . .

    "is an informal fallacy which presents an opponent's argument as absurd, ridiculous, or in any way humorous, to the specific end of a foregone conclusion that the argument lacks any substance which would merit consideration."

    Wiki.

    Asking after the time and questions it would take IS NOT ridicule . . . it is ASKING for time!

    I am NOT ridiculing you. Your writing an article which ANSWERS questions YOU set to your own self . . . has NOTHING to do with me.

    – – –

    "if a person says they are writing an article… the best thing to do, especially when the person has said they are taking time to write it well (remember I said I was going to disappear for a while), is to give them that time… but instead… you commit the fallacy of appeal to ridicule by ridiculing the time I am taking… do you see this is a fallacy in reasoning? "

    Nope. As what ARGUMENT are you answering . . . . look what appeal to ridicule ACTUALLY Is . . .

    "is an informal fallacy which presents an opponent's argument as absurd, ridiculous, or in any way humorous, to the specific end of a foregone conclusion that the argument lacks any substance which would merit consideration."

    So which argument have I ridiculed?

    You saying you are writing an article and hence you are asking question – which I am too afraid to answer . . .

    IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.

    Fallacies RELATE to an argument.

    You promised ARGUMENTS – KILLER ARGUMENTS . . . which HAVE NOT MATERIALIZED.

    Instead – you claimed to be writing an article!

    And THAT only after being pressed for an answer. . . which I thought was coming.

    – – –

    "It's like when a person says they're going to give you a gift… and you keep poking them in the ribs saying: So, where is it huh? huh? where is it? did you really get me a gift? Huh? Can you see how this is childish behavior?"

    False analogy. . . as there is PRELUDE to this gift giving promise . . . it is NOT the same thing.

    You are apparently writing this killer article in refutation . . . .about a discussion.

    Then you bothered me with questions. . . .

    Which could be endless . . .

    SO – I have asked for answers . . .

    Which you claim is Suddenly . . .ridicule of you?

    Why?

    – – –

    "I've already sent a portion of the article to Mr. Sina for his remarks, which he gave me, and I'm continuing… don't worry. When I'm finished, you'll know. "

    See where you started from . . .and where you are ending up to!

    THAT is what is truly ridiculous.

  377. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… as I've stated… and as can be studied at length online… just google "does islam mean peace" and you'll get both sides of the argument…

    There is a huge difference between saying: "being IN islam will bring you peace," which translates to "being IN submission will bring you salam" and it is quite another thing entirely to say that "salam=islam," which is just not accurate. You can say that the dar es salam is "found within submission to allah" but you cannot say the dar es salam IS submission to allah… do you see the difference here?

    Another example is the fact that in islam… there is the dar al islam… which means "house of islam." There is "dar al harb" which mens "house of war" etc. These all are references to islam… but none of them IS islam… islam is submission… so… there is a "house of peace" found in the "house of submission…" etc.

    Exegetical fallacy… google… happiness…

    J Stillwater

  378. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… see what I mean? this is how you always respond… I say I'm writing an article… you ridicule the time it takes… that is an appeal to ridicule… and is a classic fallacy… here's why…

    if a person says they are writing an article… the best thing to do, especially when the person has said they are taking time to write it well (remember I said I was going to disappear for a while), is to give them that time… but instead… you commit the fallacy of appeal to ridicule by ridiculing the time I am taking… do you see this is a fallacy in reasoning?

    It's like when a person says they're going to give you a gift… and you keep poking them in the ribs saying: So, where is it huh? huh? where is it? did you really get me a gift? Huh? Can you see how this is childish behavior?… I have entertained the notion that you may indeed be someone in your early teens…

    When a person is writing an article… that means the article is not finished yet… so… to suggest they post an unfinished article online is again, immature… I'm not writing the article to "silence you." You're a bit full of yourself there pal… I don't take this as a joke, as you seem to… for me, this is about stopping people from killing other people, and throwing acid in their faces… and shooting schoolgirls on their school buses… etc… and I take it very seriously…

    I've already sent a portion of the article to Mr. Sina for his remarks, which he gave me, and I'm continuing… don't worry. When I'm finished, you'll know.

    J Stillwater

  379. aminthemystic says:

    " @aminriadh/aminthemystic… sometimes I think you post here just to create endlessly long pages of text for people to have to read through… in the hopes that they will give up and won't be exposed to the very reasonable arguments presented here… "

    You make the attacks . . . I answer.

    This is the game playing you come up with.

    Poor.

    – – –

    THEN you attack me for making counter attacks!

    Inspired hypocrisy – no.

    – – –

    "I simply said you always say this but I've never seen your proof"

    Read the comments . . .

    – – –

    "I made no "false allegations" against you… I said you make statements all the time about how you defeated this person or that person… which is completely true… I simply said I never see proof of it… which is also completely true… "

    Nope sonny . . . here is what YOU actually said:

    "
    I made a statement… accusing you of doing nothing more than attacking people.."

    Doh!

    Now you have changed your story . . .

    So you do NOT have to answer the above.

    – – –

    You said – the only thing I do is make attacks and that is it!

    I asked you to prove it.

    And you haven't.

    – – –

    HENCE you made it up.

    Then you started off with making this attack:

    "ometimes I think you post here just to create endlessly long pages of text for people to have to read through… in the hopes that they will give up and won't be exposed to the very reasonable arguments presented here… "

    See . . this is AN ATTACK

    A LYING ATTACK . . .

    – – –

    The comment before:

    "which you seem to have shed for some reason… maybe things got too hot with that name and too many people took you to task and your imams told you to shed the name, lest it lead people to posts that could cause them to leave islam… who knows."

    it was this attack.

    Which I answered.

    – – –

    Then you made the next attack.

  380. aminthemystic says:

    "with regard to your snide, yet ineffective quip about my sources… as I've stated before… it is not important where information comes from… what's important is whether it is true or false…. "

    As I pointed out – THEN I am NOT replying to YOU – But to the source.

    An I am PERFECTLY within my rights to point this out.

    There is NOTHING wrong with it.

    And I did NOT dismiss the "source" either.

    So. . .

    "with regard to your snide, yet ineffective quip about my sources"

    Is dishonest.

    – – –

    "So, your comment about where I get my information is an ad hominem attack (attack the person instead of their logic)"

    huh? This is NOT what ad hmoinem is . . .neither have I committed it.

    As it is apparent – I DID ANSWER.

    And why do you completely forget using biased source is a fallacy?

    – – –

    "one of your favorites."

    A BASELESS attack!

    – –

    " for good measure… and to create a red herring… you attack the person… you clever rascal you…
    "

    Out and out lies and attacks . . .

    And THIS is attacking ME

    rather than the argument!

  381. aminthemystic says:

    "hmmm… that's strange… after I accused you of committing an exegetical fallacy, I could have sworn I went on to explain why… hmmm…. must be my Alzheimer's flaring up again… where were we? Oh yeah… I remember… exegetical fallacies… "

    Where?

    Do point it out . . .

    In fact – WHY didn't you point it out.

    Then I would have had to apologize.

    If you can point it out – I will eat humble pie and apologize.

    – – –

    But you said above:

    "they are two different words… and you have committed what is known as an "exegetical fallacy." "

    And after this I was expecting a how . . . which would've linked to whatever you wrote above this.

    – – –

    "I understand what you are trying to explain here… many muslims have tried to explain this in this way… but it just doesn't hold true… in the two examples you gave above… the word is submission… not salam… سلام "

    Where? Who else has tried to explain it this way . . .plase point it out.

    – – –

    "Again… just because a word is derived from a root (in this case SLM), it doesn't mean the word has the same meaning or connotation… "

    NO ONE has claimed this . . . only that in Semitic language there is a LINK back to the original root. And a reason as to how the derivative links back to the original root.

    Sometimes the link is obvious – sometimes it isn't.

    NO ONE is denying that the word Islam – DOES NOT mean "Submission".

    It does –

    However . . .

    Two other references:

    Dar es Salam

    and Silm

    Both meaning "Peace" refer to Islam the religion . . HENCE Islam is linked to Peace and in this way means "Peace"

    I have explained this in detail now. And it is NOT that hard to understand.

    – – –

    "Yes… Dar es salaam is used "in reference" to islam because Dar es salam is one of the divisions of the world of islam… in other words… there is the "house of peace" which is within islam… "

    Which "IS" Islam . . . not merely within.

    "both refer to islam… but we wouldn't say islam is war, would we… well… you wouldn't. "

    In this case obviously not. As Islam is referring to being "Peace" – so it is rather obvious meanings of war or other things are useless.

    – – –

    "The "house of peace" reference is referring to one of the divisions within "the world according to islam." "

    That Islam is Peace.

    – – –

    There is also the additional reference of Silm.

    So the reference to Islam meaning peace are 2 different ones.

  382. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… sometimes I think you post here just to create endlessly long pages of text for people to have to read through… in the hopes that they will give up and won't be exposed to the very reasonable arguments presented here…

    The reason I say that is, you are asking me to give proof to something when the burden of proof is on you…

    You made a claim… the claim that you have defeated Mr. Sina, Julia, Myself and others on this site. I simply said you always say this but I've never seen your proof… you made the claim… I challenged it because I never see your proof… you have two choices… you can say: "Well J Stillwater… that's your opinion and you're welcome to it…" or… you can post some proof of your claims… in the earlier case… you would appear to be defeated, since you have made claims that you're not willing to instantly back up with proof… in the latter case… you would appear more credible and others would be able to see how and under what circumstances you spanked your opponents…

    I made no "false allegations" against you… I said you make statements all the time about how you defeated this person or that person… which is completely true… I simply said I never see proof of it… which is also completely true…

    J Stillwater

  383. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… with regard to your snide, yet ineffective quip about my sources… as I've stated before… it is not important where information comes from… what's important is whether it is true or false….

    Even if I never come up with ONE original thought… but I provide the correct information… it doesn't matter my level of knowledge… or yours for that matter… what matters is the truth of the information… regardless from where it comes…

    So, your comment about where I get my information is an ad hominem attack (attack the person instead of their logic)… one of your favorites… and yes… sometimes you attack the logic… and then, for good measure… and to create a red herring… you attack the person… you clever rascal you…

    J Stillwater

  384. aminthemystic says:

    "your admonition creates the illusion that I am uninformed… which you have not proven… and then, you go on from that false conclusion to recommend I fix the problem you've falsely concluded… do you see the circular nature of this reasoning? "

    You claimed stuff previously – which turned out to be wrong. . .

    THEN you went wild . . . . said all sorts . . .

    HUGE claims . . .

    Which you NEVER answered . . . .

    Hence – you are NOT informed.

    – – –

    "It is a textbook case of begging the question… because… in your conclusion "the useful thing for you to do is… STUDY" you have place one of your premises: i.e. "you have not studied enough…" It's like asking the question: "when did you stop beating your wife?" You see how that assumes I've beaten my wife? "

    No son . . .this is YOU deceiving . . . . YOU are trying to forgo that you have a HISTORY.

    Remember Remember – The Big Declaration . . . that never came?

    – – –

    " A.) Ali Sina's information is inaccurate… (a circular argument, since you have not proven it)."

    Nope – I have ASKED you to make an objective study . . . .and compare.

    Here is what I said:

    "Why don't you start off with reading up on Sina's book.

    And write up an objective analysis. . . by comparing to the actual sources?

    Read few of his "articles"

    Check them out . . . . check out his sources. . . .

    And then write up . . . . "

    Where in the above is it . . . that implies that the conclusion WILL come to is that Sina is wrong. . . and write about that?

    I actually leave that open. And my other comment will confirm this.

    Where I say – Whatever position you have AFTER an objective study – at least you will have authority behind you.

    See – you choose to make up things . . . .

    An idiotic and absurd lie.

    – – –

    " If I take your advice I will uncover the flaws in Mr. Sina's writings"

    Nope – If YOU take my advice – rather than implying that you HAVE read Sina's work . . . . you WILL have read it.

    Then rather than SPEAKING in generalities – you will be able to give specific EXAMPLES.

    Hence – I later expounded on this . . . in another comment.

    Also . . . then whatever you position is you will be able to speak with authority.

    – – –

    "Finally… you keep saying I have lost something… I don't remember being in a debate with you…. I made a statement about muhammad… I said he committed adultery (and I've added to that accusation the sin of blasphemy)… and I said I would prove it… as part of that proof…"

    Load of all hoo-ha. . .

    You went of . . . you made SEVERAL comments that you were going to reply . . .

    But you DID NOT.

    I entertained you for a while . .. and GOT bored.

    There are SEVERAL of your comments available here. I had Ali as witness . . who then went off to watch movies on Netflix!

    – – –

    "I'm writing the article… answer to that question would certainly speed things along because it would allow me to skip that step in the article… but alas… you're afraid to answer it… "

    More lying . . .why would I be er . . . afraid of answering?

    And are you going to JUST keep asking more and more questions . . .

    How many?

    Where will they lead?

    How long is it taking you write an article?

    Where is it?

    Is it online?

    Can you PUT it online to SILENCE me?

    No?

    Why Not.

    Yes . . .

    Then – an easy solution is WordPress.

  385. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic…. hmmm… that's strange… after I accused you of committing an exegetical fallacy, I could have sworn I went on to explain why… hmmm…. must be my Alzheimer's flaring up again… where were we? Oh yeah… I remember… exegetical fallacies…

    I understand what you are trying to explain here… many muslims have tried to explain this in this way… but it just doesn't hold true… in the two examples you gave above… the word is submission… not salam… سلام

    Again… just because a word is derived from a root (in this case SLM), it doesn't mean the word has the same meaning or connotation…

    Yes… Dar es salaam is used "in reference" to islam because Dar es salam is one of the divisions of the world of islam… in other words… there is the "house of peace" which is within islam… and there is the "house of war" which is outside islam… both refer to islam… but we wouldn't say islam is war, would we… well… you wouldn't.

    The "house of peace" reference is referring to one of the divisions within "the world according to islam."

    J Stillwater

  386. aminthemystic says:

    "see what I mean? You're pretty funny actually. Let me show you why I say that… let me give you an "example" regarding my statement… "

    I know I am – thank you for confirming and saying it.

    – – –

    "I said all you do is attack people and that's the end of it… and minutes later you post the very evidence I need… and in fact… in your post you ask for an example… so… I will use the very post in which you ask for an example…. since it is a PERFECT example to use… "

    Oh I am salivating. . . .

    – – –

    "I made a statement… accusing you of doing nothing more than attacking people… I mentioned your link… the link on your aminriadh screen name… which you seem to have shed for some reason… maybe things got too hot with that name and too many people took you to task and your imams told you to shed the name, lest it lead people to posts that could cause them to leave islam… who knows…
    "

    Actually I gave you the answer – which perfectly SIMPLE . . .and reasonable.

    Second – that NAME is still there. And I STILL intend to use it. . . .

    I am logged on to WordPress for creating this site:
    http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    Then I am FORCED to use this name.

    – – –

    "Anyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…" you came back with: "

    ""A lie – and it comforts you"
    "if you were truthful you would present examples" (I am)
    "actually – that is attempt to shift burden of proof… which is fallacious" Huh?
    "see how untruthful you are?" "

    – – –

    "Okay… now I don't know about the rest of the group… but I don't see anything in these responses other than attacks"

    Ha ha ha . . . see how untruthful you are . . . ha ha . . .

    This is an attack:

    "You don't actually answer people's accusations… what you do is tell them they are wrong… and that's the end of it… or you attack them… and that's the end of it… They say "A" and you say "nope…" and that's the end of it…. "

    So you attacked me . . . I answered.

    And you claim I answered with the ABOVE . . .

    And I did NOT do/say similar to this:

    nyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…"

    YET – I also said:

    "If you were truthful . . . you would present examples . .. "

    "Actually – that is attempt to shift burden of proof . . . which is fallacious. "

    To which YOUR REPLY was an answer to . . .

    YET – you clearly lied when you said this:

    "Anyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…""

    – – –

    YOU made false allegations against ME. . . . I asked you to prove them . . .

    What do you do?

    Claim that I just attacked you. . . .

    And that is it.

    Whereas I didn't . . . .

    I asked YOU to prove what YOU claimed . . .

    And you couldn't.

    – – –

  387. aminthemystic says:

    "The point is not that there are no intelligent and good people among Muslims but that Islam hinders the development of such qualities. "

    This contradicts what you have said before.

    So why make such statements?

    – – –

    And answer this . . .

    "The point is not that there are no intelligent and good people among Muslims but that Islam hinders the development of such qualities. "

    How?

  388. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… thanks for the advice on Mr. Sina… your advice begs the question… which is a fallacy… here's why… your admonition creates the illusion that I am uninformed… which you have not proven… and then, you go on from that false conclusion to recommend I fix the problem you've falsely concluded… do you see the circular nature of this reasoning?

    It is a textbook case of begging the question… because… in your conclusion "the useful thing for you to do is… STUDY" you have place one of your premises: i.e. "you have not studied enough…" It's like asking the question: "when did you stop beating your wife?" You see how that assumes I've beaten my wife?

    You are seeking to create for the readers here the false picture that: A.) Ali Sina's information is inaccurate… (a circular argument, since you have not proven it). B.) If I take your advice I will uncover the flaws in Mr. Sina's writings.. (another circular argument since it concludes, without any proof, that there ARE flaws in Mr. Sina's writings…)

    Finally… you keep saying I have lost something… I don't remember being in a debate with you…. I made a statement about muhammad… I said he committed adultery (and I've added to that accusation the sin of blasphemy)… and I said I would prove it… as part of that proof… I asked you to answer a question… which you avoided it… I'm writing the article… answer to that question would certainly speed things along because it would allow me to skip that step in the article… but alas… you're afraid to answer it…

    J Stillwater

  389. aminthemystic says:

    Unlike me – the extent and scope of your knowledge is from such sites.

    Hence – one ends up answering them rather than you.

    – – –

    "What Dar es Salam" means is "house of peace," and has nothing to do with submission. "

    Islam is the nomenclature – the word in TECHNICAL terms refers to the religion.

    The linguistic meaning of it is – submission.

    Similarly Dar es Salam – is a reference to Islam.

    Both reference the same thing.

    – – –

    "they are two different words… and you have committed what is known as an "exegetical fallacy.""

    No I have not . . .

    And it is NOT very clever just to name a fallacy and accuse the person of it.

    – – –

    "Notice that all these words are derived from the same root… so… following your reasoning… Salam (peace) and (Salama – the tanning of leather or the sting of a snake) mean the same thing, which they obviously do not. "

    Which is NOT my reasoning . . .but yours.

    Which you have wrongly been applying.

    I have explained it above.

    – – –

    "For more on this subject, see the following link: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Meaning_of_Islam&qu

    This actually adds nothing new.

    All it says is that Islam means submission

    And that it refers to the religion.

    – – –

    However in a roundabout way they explain the same thing I do.

    In technical terms Islam refers to the religion.

    The word means in linguistic terms "submission".

    For example – consider these 2 sentences.

    قبل اسلام

    He accepted Islam

    كان اسلامه امام شرطة حقير

    His submission in front of police was despicable

    – – –

    Both Silm and Dar es Salam refer to Islam – and both mean peace.

    That is one way how they link to Islam.
    http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/

    – – –

    Another way is the link of root with its derivative.

  390. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… see what I mean? You're pretty funny actually. Let me show you why I say that… let me give you an "example" regarding my statement…

    I said all you do is attack people and that's the end of it… and minutes later you post the very evidence I need… and in fact… in your post you ask for an example… so… I will use the very post in which you ask for an example…. since it is a PERFECT example to use…

    I made a statement… accusing you of doing nothing more than attacking people… I mentioned your link… the link on your aminriadh screen name… which you seem to have shed for some reason… maybe things got too hot with that name and too many people took you to task and your imams told you to shed the name, lest it lead people to posts that could cause them to leave islam… who knows…

    Anyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…" you came back with:

    "A lie – and it comforts you"
    "if you were truthful you would present examples" (I am)
    "actually – that is attempt to shift burden of proof… which is fallacious" Huh?
    "see how untruthful you are?"

    Okay… now I don't know about the rest of the group… but I don't see anything in these responses other than attacks… and by the way… How can I be shifting the burden of proof? You're the one who made the claim over and over again that you've somehow defeated people in debates here on this site… I challenged your claim… the burden of proof is on you… hello??!!

    J Stillwater

  391. aminthemystic says:

    "You don't actually answer people's accusations… what you do is tell them they are wrong… and that's the end of it… or you attack them… and that's the end of it… They say "A" and you say "nope…" and that's the end of it…. "

    A lie – and it comforts you.

    If you were truthful . . . you would present examples . ..

    – – –

    "So… I'm not sure where all the posts are where you say you've defeated all these people… but it isn't on your intense debate profile…. and I invite anybody to go there and see the proof… "

    Actually – that is attempt to shift burden of proof . . . which is fallacious.

    – – –

    "Now… how about the answer to that question I asked you all those days ago about the ten commandments? "

    No – how about the BIG DECLARATION!

    – – –

    See how untruthful you are?

  392. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh/aminthemystic… actually, your post is not correct. What Dar es Salam" means is "house of peace," and has nothing to do with submission. It is a different phrase altogether… For example, I can write: Dar es Islam and it would mean: "house of submission." Even though the words are derived from the same root… they are two different words… and you have committed what is known as an "exegetical fallacy." Behold the following list. Notice that all these words are derived from the same root… so… following your reasoning… Salam (peace) and (Salama – the tanning of leather or the sting of a snake) mean the same thing, which they obviously do not.

    Islam اسلام Submission
    Salam سلام Well-being/Peace
    (Derivation of) Salama سلما The stinging of a snake or the tanning of the leather
    Saleema سليما To be saved or to escape from danger (when refering to a female)
    Saleem سليم To be saved or to escape from danger (when refering to a male)
    Aslam اسلم To submit
    Istaslama استسلاما To surrender
    Musal مسل Undisputed
    Tasleem تسليم To receive a salutation or becoming submitted

    For more on this subject, see the following link: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Meaning_of_Islam

    J Stillwater

  393. Ali Sina says:

    “I hope that will change with time, and with the increasing ability of Muslims to show the world that they are indeed good people who deserve the world’s respect.”

    I am afraid that is a wishful thinking. I too that the same hopes, but they were shattered when I studied the Quran and learned about the life of Muhammad and his companions. Islamic savagery is rooted in Islamic teachings and in the examples set by Muhammad.

    You are assuring us of the existence of of a few Islamic scientist and philanthropists as if we denied that. Human species is a single race. Smart people, good people, stupid people and evil people are found all over the world. The point is not that there are no intelligent and good people among Muslims but that Islam hinders the development of such qualities.

  394. J_Stillwater says:

    @aninriadh/aminthemystic… nice to hear from you again… I thought you were ignoring me… I was becoming worried…

    You'll notice, if you click on your intensedebate link, I paid your page a visit the other day, because I wanted to see if I could substantiate your claim that you've been answering people's accusations regarding islam. What I found was what I expected to find… I've actually been following you on here pretty closely… so I've seen what you've been posting…

    You don't actually answer people's accusations… what you do is tell them they are wrong… and that's the end of it… or you attack them… and that's the end of it… They say "A" and you say "nope…" and that's the end of it….

    Muslim Man on the other hand, answers questions… Zitouni answers questions… no-name answers questions… you on the other hand… don't. So… I'm not sure where all the posts are where you say you've defeated all these people… but it isn't on your intense debate profile…. and I invite anybody to go there and see the proof…

    Oh… and I'm very familiar with Mr. Sina's arguments… I hold many of the same opinions… opinions which I have come to on my own… through my own study…

    Now… how about the answer to that question I asked you all those days ago about the ten commandments?

    J Stillwater

  395. aminthemystic says:

    "the word "islam" means "submission." The Arabic word for peace is "Salam." It is an exegetical fallacy to say that Islam means peace because it is similar to "salam." They are two different words… just like "cat" and "scat" are two different words. "

    Semitic languages are "root" based languages and direct derivatives always have some links with the root word.

    Islam DOES mean "Submission".

    But it is linked to Peace by two way.

    Dar es Salam

    Quran 10:25 6:127

    – –

    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ادْخُلُوا فِي السِّلْمِ كَافَّةً

    2:208

    Silm – a variation of Salam

    it means "peace"

    these two are direct references to Islam and they mean peace.

  396. aminthemystic says:

    "it would be easier for me to believe islam were at least partially true if muslims didn't continually skate around the answers and give answers to questions that were never asked"

    Actually this is standard practice for people like you to claim such thing.

    It is VERY easy to expose.

    Because there are claims such as the above. . .

    BUT

    PROOF – will be missing.

    = = =

    And I would like to take this opportunity to remind you – YOU LOST.

    Hence – the useful thing for you to do is . . . STUDY.

    – – –

    Why don't you start off with reading up on Sina's book.

    And write up an objective analysis. . . by comparing to the actual sources?

    Read few of his "articles"

    Check them out . . . . check out his sources. . . .

    And then write up . . . .

    Here is how to get a free decent blog:
    http://wordpress.com/

  397. aminthemystic says:

    Or in other words . . . . it doesn't matter

    Else . . .do you have an answer?

    Why is Sina roundly "humiliated" and defeated in these comments sections.

    – – –

    People talk about Sina's work being true . . . but they cannot actually speak with examples.

    Hence they have either NOT read it.

    Or counter argue.

    So this talking is nothing more than HOT AIR!
    – – –

    You certainly cannot –

    You have your own BS – that you could NOT protect. . .

    Then you went WILD

    Stating you were going to prove this and that . . . . .

    It didn't come.

    – – –

    OBVIOUSLY – you feel small.

    So . . . rather than that . . .

    Why don't go off and do some learning.

    In fact – I actually RECOMMEND

    Go and read Sina's book!

    Start from there.

    Then read about Islam – compare what the book claims and what the actual Muslim source are saying.

    Therein lies your answer. . .

    The thing is whatever side you choose. . . . you will have some authority behind you.

    – – –

    " You could have the satisfaction of getting his site shut down and at the same time you could win $50,000. "

    He has ALREADY stated he will and cannot lose. . . hence he has NO Intention of shutting this site down – or giving this $50K

    Hence meaningless lying rhetoric . . . that is all this $50K thing is.

    It sounds good. PR. Standard issue challenge. . . . there are quite a few around the net.

    – – – –

    "Heck, you could just post here in the comment section your finding in the arabic… showing that Mr. Sina is mistaken… but you have not once done this. I wonder why not… "

    I have son . . I have.

    Straight afterwards . . . rather than answering.

    He called me a liar.

    Issued a challenge.

    And then walked away . . . .

    He has issued another challenge.

    So we will see.

  398. aminthemystic says:

    "muslim prince"

    This is how little lies start.

  399. aminthemystic says:

    "there's a reason you don't see muslims defending you here."

    huh? I am NOT the one in need for defense. How strange your mind is . . .

    and how shameless. . . . still no BIG declaration!

    See the absurdity of your claim above . . .

    "It's because they have no rebuttal to the arguments presented here, but, the visitor numbers at alexa don't lie… muslims are here… and they certainly NEED to be here"

    Doh! Which arguments. . . I have er . . .rebutted EVERY single one. Hence why would anyone be supporting me?

    – – –

    "and here you are, defending all the things I've just mentioned as if any of them were true or even possible… claiming your superior intelligence and belittling those who pin you into a corner… "

    See how shameless and liar you are . . . .

    You are the one who ran . . .

    Ha ha ha ha . . .. a rather "easy" victory.

    Why is it you people come out with SO many lying false accusations – then when asked to prove them – you simply go to pieces.

    – – –

    People have their own intelligence . . . . and they can see through the likes of you.

    You lost . . . and badly.

    It is NOT my problem.

    You shouldn't have made things up.

    Then starting to claim . . . . you were going to come back with HEAVY answers. . .

    NONE have yet materialized.

  400. aminthemystic says:

    "Some Muslim countries are already performing better economically than non Muslim"

    Oil doesn't really count – however the states ARE playing smart – like Qatar Oman Kuwait Dubai.

    The investment in education is amazing. And standards are rising.

    If Iran wasn't that way it would lead them all in education.

  401. aminthemystic says:

    انت شخص محتال – you are an impostor

    ومصاب بجنون العضمة and a megalomaniac –

    lil mistake العظمة

    وسال الله لك الهداية I ask Allah to guide you.

    another lil mistake اسال

  402. Danyaal says:

    Brother, when say things like this you kind of affirm that the other person has got you by the "bollocks"*.

    * Apologies for the word.

  403. Danyaal says:

    Demsci,

    I get the impression you don't actually know what Abrogation is about. It one of those buzzwords like Taqiyah that people say it in hope but don't really know what they are talking about.

    Ali Sina will say it 100% wrong so why mention Bill Warner. At least he is just saying 60%.

    But Warner does not have expertise in this field. He doesn't come from an objective stand. His views should be read as such.

    It is no that only expert views that matter but in the context above, why mention Bill Warner?

    Just by mentioning another such name is not going to make much difference.

    This is the thing. Islamic theology has strong basis, principles and laws. And it is bound by them.

    This is why there is huge gap between Amateur and Academic discourse related to Islam.

  404. Danyaal says:

    Shouldn't you be able to understand this language? So translate.

  405. Danyaal says:

    How? I have over 300 first and second cousins but only one relative has 2 wives. So what is your explanation for "higher" birth defects in some Western countries?

    I am a evolution biology student Imperial – so see if you can answer?

  406. zitouni says:

    If a muslim, in say, sudan… goes into a village, kills the men, as muhammad did… and then… enslaves the women… distributes them among the fighters (as muhammad did regularly)… and they take these women into their tents… rip their clothes off… stop… and say… hey… is this reprehensible behavior? Is this "a perversion?" Muslim Man, on alisina.org says it is… so maybe I should consult the qur'an… He opens to 4:24, and then to 23:2-3, and then to 70:22-30… reads it… and what is he told? He is told Muslim Man is wrong on this issue…

    Sudan war is not considered to be jihad becasue the war is between Muslims . What you have stated in those verses is concerning jihad situattion 1400 years ago when there were no UN or human right organization. so what is happening in Sudan is wrong on both grounds . You are really too dumb person you swallow everything you read from anti islamic website

  407. zitouni says:

    the word "islam" means "submission." The Arabic word for peace is "Salam." It is an exegetical fallacy to say that Islam means peace because it is similar to "salam." They are two different words… just like "cat" and "scat" are two different words.

    Not in all cases . The word appeared in koran where it means peace

    IMuslims are not told to coexist. They are told to conquer, and extort jizia "protection money" from the conquered.

    Where do you get your information about koran interpretation ? this shiown you have been reading too much propaganda

    In the qur'an, muslims are told to wage jihad until the world is islamic… this leaves no room for peace… because there will always be people like me on the outside of islam, and there will always be murderous factions on the inside of islam…

    You are hypocrite and dishonest man . The verse which says fight only who fight you we talked about it and you run like rabits becasue I defeated you

    Muslims will continue to slaughter people who disagree with them, and have laws in the shariah called "blasphemy laws" that ensure people like me are killed with haste. Muslims will even kill innocent people to vent their rage (see Benghazi).

    You have to see what koran and Islam says and not what Muslims are doing .

    I don't need to visit muslim countries to see muslims first hand… they are in my country… and are ANYTHING but peaceful… muslims are ungrateful, whining agitators who want everything THEIR way… and want to change our customs and practices to suit THEIR islamic ideology. Muslims did not create this our country with the blood and sweat and dreams of generations… and now… as always… they want to move in and take what they did not earn… They are an ungrateful guest who now seeks to be master of the house.

    I do not know where you come from , if you are from Europe I will show you how Muslims shead their blood to free you

  408. zitouni says:

    You mentioned that not every muslim is obliged to go to war… according to the qur'an, every muslim is called to jihad…

    when there is war those who are qualified should fight

    in all of its aspects… all the time… until the world is completely subdued under the domination of islam

    Wrong. Koran says fight those who fight you and I have already explain that to you and you keep repeating the same argument here this shous that you are hypocrite

    .

    Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know. (002:216) Khan

    Nothing wrong about that . They have hijad too where you live I am sure you got an army in your country

    When you say "go to war," your statement is not accurate… because muslims are always "at war" with the kafir… muslims are always fighting to overthrow the rest of the world… this is why islam is a violent religion…

    Who ocupies territories of who. we ocupy somebody else land or you do . how could you make this stupid statement when USA ocupied Iraq and now Afganistan old fashion ocupation and they ocupy Arab countries moder ocupation

    it must be violent… muslims must kill… maybe you don't like to kill… but you are commanded by the qur'an to support those who do… you are commanded to have just as much blood on your hands as they do… because you are called upon to give them all the support they require to achieve their goal…

    You are sick and ignorant . There is no comnand in koran for muslim to must kill for no reason

    What a horrible world the muslims are creating for our children,

    the world is horible becasue white men who do not want to get rid of slave master mentality and not because Islam . Muslims are living in their lands they have not ocupied your land you are the one who is doing that . Very funny from your part you ocupy and kill and meantime you cry out help Muslims are barbarians

  409. zitouni says:

    Muslim Man… Thank you for your answers… and yes… in fact… you muslims DO practice the enslavement of prisoners of war and you still DO engage in the taking of sex slaves… in fact… you are one of the ONLY groups of people on the planet who still does… and this is according to the United States State Department Trafficking in Persons (TIP) Report. http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/

    There is nothing in that link about Muslims taking slaves. lets asume they do we have Muslims who engage in fornication, drinking alcohol and many more which are forbiden things in Islam .

    where i'm not asked to kill other people),

    Why cant you use your mind and tthink dummy . If Koran asks Muslims to kill non Muslims how can you explain to me the existence of Millions of non Muslims in the Muslim world , it just does make sense to me

  410. zitouni says:

    can you show me where "scholars" are saying that it is no longer halal to take women as prisoners of war? How can "scholars" go against the sunnah of their prophet?

    Sheikh Kishak I heard him saying since today we have exchange of prisoner of wars which something did not exist back then you are no longer allowed to take women as prisoner of war and have sex with them

    Also… you said "people who invented slavery have changed their behavior so muslims can no longer take women as prisoner of war…" So… by this logic… when the people "change their behavior" is when muslims change theirs? Are you saying that human decency is based on what other people do?

    Muslims were forced to treat prosoner of wars as slaves because the enemy was engaging in that kind of practuse long before Islam . It was the enemy military policy and Muslims were not in business of changing his policy so they have to play with the same rule otherwise you will be subjecting your army to be defeated and lose the war .As soon as these people changed it we were happy about it .

    In other words, muslims don't hate things just because the things are reprehensible? They change their tune based on what "others" decide is acceptable behavior? That's what your post means… why wouldn't muslims continue to take slaves regardless of what other people see as normal? Why wouldn't muslims say no to slavery, even if everyone around them is saying yes to it? What is the matter with muslims that they cannot see the insanity in these things? Above, you stated the the qur'an "allow you to have full sexual relation with her." How nice! Who gives the qur'an the authority to have sex with a woman against her will?

    Allowing means that sex will not considred to be fornication and also it does not mean to rape and who told you it was against her will ?

    What the hell gives a muslim the right to take this woman captive and then rape her?

    Thats war and blame her people for declaring war on Muslims

    Muhammad raped his captives. His companions wanted to practice coitus interruptus just so they wouldn't impregnate them and lower their value at auction… please don't beguile us with tales of protecting these women's human rights… that is a lie. The reason you muslims say the things you say about it is because it is an embarrassment for you to have to explain muhammad's savage behavior.

    Read hadiths again you are just ignorant and you have been reading too much anti Islamic website lately LOL

  411. zitouni says:

    J still water said : YOU KNOW muhammad and his raiders had sex with the captive women on the very night they were captured… in the soldier's tents… and NOT living in their homes… and this was a regular occurrence and in fact, it was one of the things muhammad promised his soldiers as an enticement to get them to go on raids with him (please ask me to give proofs… PLEASE)…

    Before I comment on that I I would like to see from where did you get this .

    J still water said : They had sex with them hours after they had slaughtered their husbands and fathers… sometimes on the very same day! How can you equate this behavior with the United Nations? Raping female prisoners is not protecting their HUMAN RIGHTS!" You and Muslim Man know full well that this is true… and yet, you avoid just being straight and saying, yes… muhammad raped his captives… period. Be proud of your prophet… don't try to skate around the issue by trying to make it look like humanitarian efforts… they killed the men… and enslaved the younger boys and women and girls… and then, many times the same day… they raped them… proudly proclaim the fact that he and his soldiers captured women and forced them to have sex with them on the very day they killed their families… Be proud of it.

    As I said having sex with captured women in Arabia culture on those days was never considered to be rape . I do not know from where did you get the idea from. Does it mention the word rape in the narative ? do you have witenesses statement of being raped ? . You are judging 1400 years ago culture with today standard and this is stupid thing to do . They have consual sex with their women . Prophet was clear about treatment of prisoners of wars . did you read hadiths concerning that or you just swallowed what you were told by anti Islamic site and come here repeating the word rape , rape , rape . here are some hadiths

    Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them.

    Source: Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124

    Ali reported that the last words of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, were: "The prayer! The prayer! Fear Allah concerning your slaves ! "

    Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 158.

    Jabir ibn 'Abdullah said, "The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, advised that slaves should be well-treated. He said, 'Feed them from what you eat and clothe them from what you wear. Do not punish what Allah has created.' "

    Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 188.

    Sallam ibn 'Amr reported from one of the Companions of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Your slaves are your brothers, so treat him well. Ask for their help in what is too much for you and help them in what is too much for them."

    Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 190.

    Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The slave has his food and clothing. Do not burden a slave with work which he is incapable of doing."

    Source: Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari , Nr. 192.

    Not one of you should [ when introducing someone ] say ‘This is my slave’ , ‘This is my concubine’. He should call them ‘my daughter’ or ‘my son’ or ‘my brother’.

    Source: Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 2 ,4
    You must refrain from dealing wickedly with others, for that would count as a benefaction you do to yourself”.

    Source: Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim on the authority of Abu Tharr.

    ‘Others’ includes all people, so also slavegirls ! Raping a slavegirl is clearly doing her harm (emotional and physical) which would be a big sin for a muslim to commit and violation of the above hadiths .

  412. zitouni says:

    also, your answer about Jihad is not completely accurate either… the qur'an clearly states that fighting in the way of allah is for the spreading of islam…

    Qur'an (8:39) – “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”

    Them refer to idolators and if they cease meaning if they stop attacking you and persecuting and not if they cease worshiping other gods because it says later if the return meaning they return to old habit then you should know Allah is with you . Did you check tafsir or you just got this information from anti islamic website and swallowed it

    Ibn Katir said :

    (And fight them until there is no more Fitnah…).'' Ibn `Umar said, "We did that during the time of the Messenger of Allah, when Islam was weak and the man would be tried in religion, either tormented to death or being imprisoned. When Islam became stronger and widespread, there was no more Fitnah.'' When the man realized that Ibn `Umar would not agree to what he is saying, he asked him, "What do you say about `Ali and `Uthman'' Ibn `Umar replied, "What do I say about `Ali and `Uthman! As for `Uthman, Allah has forgiven him, but you hate that Allah forgives him. As for `Ali, he is the cousin of the Messenger of Allah and his son-in-law,'' and he pointed with his hand saying, "And this is his house over there.'' Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "Ibn `Umar came to us and was asked, "What do you say about fighting during Fitnah'' Ibn `Umar said, "Do you

    I didn't ask if the qur'an mentions the hijab or burka as required… I said isn't it required under shariah law… and the answer is yes… it is.

    You are very funny man . what do you think sharia law is derived from . Koran is the most important source of sharia law then second is hadith third is works of scholars.

    Since you go on to say that you support shariah law… you are implicitly stating that you agree with killing apostates and you agree with women wearing the hijab and burka by law…

    Read above .

  413. zitouni says:

    L_stillwater said : I never asked what muhammad did or didn't do… I asked if Muslim man supports the sharia law that calls for the death of the apostate. which by the way… was a false answer… according to bukhari 83:37… behold:
    "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

    First what we have is not quote of the prophet we have somebody relating something which prophet did and he was not an eye witness to it . Lets assume that this happened and prophet killed somebody . Did you use your mind becasue it says that person deserted in another word he defected and joined the enemy during war and thats treason punishable by death even in modern law .

    Here is another hadith

    One of them from Sahih al-Bukhari (Vol. 9, book 83, number 17) says, “Allah’s Apostle said, the blood of a Muslim, who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”

    It says he left the Muslims , but in Arabic version it says he left the group
    . It means the person not only apostate , but he defected the Muslim camp during the war as well and thats what got him capital punishement

    The eminent modern Islamic scholar Allama Yusuf al-Qardawi also comes to the conclusion in his book Jareemat ar-riddah wa al-Murtadd (Crime of Apostasy and Apostate, published by A-Risalah Foundation) that we should not confuse the issue of killing of murtad with freedom of conscience guaranteed in the Qur’an. Qatl-e-Murtadd can be valid only if there is some serious threat to Islamic state or social order. Thus it can be applied only in special circumstances and should not be confused with freedom of conscience. Freedom of conscience cannot be compromised as far as principles of the Qur’an are concerned.

  414. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, I am sorry that you have developed such an unfavorable attitude towards Muslims. I hope that will change with time, and with the increasing ability of Muslims to show the world that they are indeed good people who deserve the world's respect. Some Muslim countries are already performing better economically than non Muslim ones, a very small number of Muslims are already winning science prizes, Muslim philantropists are already working with non Muslim ones to cure diseases in Africa and Asia. Probably this good news did not or has not reached you. It seems to me you are not so up to date in this regard that you maintain your suspicion and other unfavorable attitudes against Muslims, and this has rendered you being unable look at the affair of the world in a more balanced manner.

  415. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, I would say that was the rule of the game in those days — fifteen centuries ago when the Prophet was still alive. When I said it was a perversion, I meant when it was viewed from the practice of modern international law/convention. Sorry for the lack of clarity. Muslims have also progressed in their law. The second Caliph was noted for his innovation, where he made something that was allowed during the life of the Prophet to become haram/forbidden. And he made lawful actions that were not even done by the Prophet. Islamic law is dynamic. It ceased to be dynamic when someone powerful stated many hundred years ago that everything under the sun was already regulated under Islamic law, and no further innovation/ renewal was needed. That probably was the beginning of the decline of Islamic civilization. I know that in one Muslim country slavery was only forbidden in the sixties. I have a friend who could still remember having a slave.

    Now Muslims have progressed a bit. We are reforming our laws, which in doing that it only requires us to return to the excellent practice of the old such as in the area of legal formulation, which has the following structure: sharia, and then fiqh, and then law.

    First, there is Sharia, which is the words of God revealed through the Prophet.

    And second, there is fiqh, which means understanding the words of God. This is not any kind of understanding developed by just anyone like me, whose knowledge about sharia is severely limited. This understanding is achieved by a 'fuqaha' (Islamic jurist) through a rigorous, deep and long thinking process which involves consideration of many factors including contemporary development in other parts of the world, and which takes him to forming a thesis. We call this thinking process "ijtihad."

    And the third is Islamic law, which is the end product of ijtihad.

    Islamic law in all over the world is being reformed through the renewed process of ijtihad, which is disciplined and scientific. And in the process we learned from and let ourselves be influenced by non Muslims. We send our scholars to non Muslim countries. But we continue to stick to our Sharia.

    Your example of Sudan, which I am not familiar with, might be true, for which I am genuinely very sad. But, again, this is because of backwardness. You may want to visit Khartoum and talk to Islamic scholars there and ask what they think about it. I am sure all of them will condemn the act with the strongest word they can find in their Arabic dictionary. But Islam is not monolithic, you might still find scholars who support the act by relying, exactly, on the verses you quoted above.

    Kindly note that Muslims have learned a lot from non Muslims even in the early days of Islam. The pioneering Arab Muslims did not know how to govern a country, and they benefited from the Persian's skill of statecraft. They benefited from the Jews. They benefited from the Christians, from the Hindus, from the Chinese, etc. But then came the age of complacency and decadence, which took Muslims down. I am happy to share with you that we Muslims in many parts of the world are actively working to rectify the mistakes.

  416. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… the word "islam" means "submission." The Arabic word for peace is "Salam." It is an exegetical fallacy to say that Islam means peace because it is similar to "salam." They are two different words… just like "cat" and "scat" are two different words.

    A thing is judged by its fruit. If someone tells me their religion is "peaceful," I expect to find harmony, and peaceful coexistence. Muslims are not told to coexist. They are told to conquer, and extort jizia "protection money" from the conquered.

    In the qur'an, muslims are told to wage jihad until the world is islamic… this leaves no room for peace… because there will always be people like me on the outside of islam, and there will always be murderous factions on the inside of islam…

    Muslims will continue to slaughter people who disagree with them, and have laws in the shariah called "blasphemy laws" that ensure people like me are killed with haste. Muslims will even kill innocent people to vent their rage (see Benghazi).

    I don't need to visit muslim countries to see muslims first hand… they are in my country… and are ANYTHING but peaceful… muslims are ungrateful, whining agitators who want everything THEIR way… and want to change our customs and practices to suit THEIR islamic ideology. Muslims did not create this our country with the blood and sweat and dreams of generations… and now… as always… they want to move in and take what they did not earn… They are an ungrateful guest who now seeks to be master of the house.

    J Stillwater

  417. Joe says:

    Dear Muslim Man,

    I know what you say is true.. "Dear Joe, frankly, violence was not what I heard from my father who taught me Islam"

    I have meet and discussed God with many Muslims and there are many good people.. But the more i learn about the life of mohamad and the history of islam, it has become more and more clear that it is islam that poisons the minds of the innocent and muslims are the ones that suffer most under islam..

    here is a talk by a man who was raised as a muslim prince and see what he has to say
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHq25tnZoFs

  418. Joe says:

    very simple

    one man plus many wives = lots of first cousins
    soceity where lots of men have many wives = lots and lots of first cousins

    first cousin plus first cousin = high probability of deformaties
    siple enough for you to understand?

  419. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… I want to go a bit further on the topic of what is made lawful to you by allah regarding sexual slaves…

    You have called the actions of your prophet, and his companions, "a perversion," and yet, you still follow him. By following muhammad, you are implicitly sanctioning what muhammad did… because you are still a muslim, in spite of the fact that your prophet, according to you, practiced, and sanctioned "a perversion."

    If a muslim, in say, sudan… goes into a village, kills the men, as muhammad did… and then… enslaves the women… distributes them among the fighters (as muhammad did regularly)… and they take these women into their tents… rip their clothes off… stop… and say… hey… is this reprehensible behavior? Is this "a perversion?" Muslim Man, on alisina.org says it is… so maybe I should consult the qur'an… He opens to 4:24, and then to 23:2-3, and then to 70:22-30… reads it… and what is he told? He is told Muslim Man is wrong on this issue… he can indeed rape them… because they are given him by allah as the spoils of war… they are his possessions… he hesitates… because this goes against his moral compass… then… he remembers muhammad… and he goes ahead and rapes this poor woman… and further shatters her crushed life… then he sells her to another… and why is this happening? Because allah says he can, and nobody, ABSOLUTELY nobody, including Muslim Man can prove anything has changed since muhammad's time.

    Muslim Man, sexual slavery is not a perversion in islam. It is your right as a muslim.

    J Stillwater

  420. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… thank you for your reply… I want to focus in on something you wrote… you stated:

    I can say that sexual assaults to women and even making women sex slaves can happen during war, even in today's war. But this is a perversion. I believe this is a violation of the war convention ratified by so many countries already.

    You've stated that sexual assaults and making women sex slaves "is a perversion." You go on to state that the war convention, agreed to by "so many countries" sees these practices as a violation of an agreement not to practice these crimes.

    Now… what we can gather from the above: these practices are reprehensible… "so many countries" agree… even you agree, and called them "a perversion."

    Here's the problem… this "perversion" is granted by allah in the qur'an itself. You can't put yourself, and your morals above the words of your prophet… the highest example of muslim behavior. According to muhammad (i.e. allah)… these practices ARE NOT perversion… they are gifts from allah… behold:

    O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war… [Quran 33:50]

    They are your possession… you own them… and can sexually violate them.

    J Stillwater

  421. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Sakat, I am grateful for your prayer. Likewise, I wish you all the best in your search. May Allah give you resilience and happiness in your effort to discover Him. May Allah open His door for you to approach Him. Sometimes the door is not necessarily located at a regular place, it may not be next to the window, but keep on trying, and you'll find Him, inshallah — I don't know where and when.

    Regarding your request, unfortunately I am not able to speak authoritatively about the essence of Islam. I am still learning about it. If I have time, I will read Mr Sina's writing hoping it will increase and improve my understanding about Islam. Mr Sina seems to be very knowledgable about Islam and about life of the Prophet, although he has failed to find one bit of goodness in them.

  422. aminthemystic says:

    "Yes you can quote and criticize my book. I am doing the Quran all the time. "

    The only problem being . . .I can er .. . easily refute your lies.

    Hasn't happened other way around has it.

  423. aminthemystic says:

    "For that you in the end depend MORE on Revelation than on Reason. "

    It doesn't quite work like this. Quran isn't a massive book. And not all of it is rules.

    Hence there are ONLY few absolutes.

    As you say:

    "Aminriadh, you are Muslim, and by choice."

    Yes by choice . . .hence the reason to choose is reason itself. So reason tends to underpin revelation and NOT the other way around.

    – – –

    "While you very much, depend on Reason, this METHOD, in your attempts to refute, rebut Ali Sina, who admits to be human and flawed and faulty. So I say you use double standards towards Allah and Quran and Ali Sina and his book. "

    You just say it. What method. . . you are strangely VERY vague about it.

    You always are – I have asked you oh – so many times. You evade – or make excuses.

    – – –

    "So I say you use double standards towards Allah and Quran and Ali Sina and his book."

    Which I don't – as explained above.

    – – –

    "So I for one would like nothing better than for you to start comparing Quran and Ali Sina's book. "

    Something which I offered to do. In reply to Sina!

    – – –

    "For if you use the same universally, generally used logical, reasonable standards, METHOD, then either we will see you downsizing the Quran or upsizing Ali Sina's book. "

    Or the other way around . . .

    – – –

    "Because; Just how is the Quran better than Ali Sina's book? Suppose the writers, Allah and Ali, were reversed? Is the Quran more clear, more true, more substantiated with evidence, more scholarly, more moral, less hateful, less faulty, less incomplete? "

    In every way . . .

    Here is a good reason:
    http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    Keep you eyes peeled!

  424. aminthemystic says:

    You are so stupid – you cannot either!

    If you could – you would have!

    It is THAT simple

  425. Slomo says:

    Zitouni man u r so stupid cant c d difference beetwen racism and democracy

  426. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stillwater, jihad is not laways the same as war. As I stated in my previous response to you, it also means seriously pursuing an objective through hardwork. War, which is something of the last resort, is only one of them and is basically for self defence purposes. Islam means peace, and we do promote peace. Islam does not mean violence, and we do condemn violence.

    Regarding the burning of the Quran, I was wondering why these people had to burn it in the first place? I am sure they knew that there were a group of other people (i.e. Muslims) who would be offended by the burning of the Quran.

    Dear J Stillwater, no, Muslims are not supposed to kill. We are a bunch of peaceful people. Do visit our countries. You will find Senegalese who are very soft and welcoming. You will find Muslims in Southeast Asia among the most hospitable people in the world. Have you experienced Arab hospitality?

    Yes, there are vice and crime, there are looting and rapes in our countries, so are there in other countries. And just like in other countries, there are courts of law to dispense justice to these criminals.

    We Muslims support justice, although there are injustice rulers in the Muslim world with the blood of Muslims and non Mulims on their hands – but we do not support such leaders. Are there Muslims who support such leaders? Yes, there are, in which context I can safely say that these leaders are also supported by non Muslims. These are all politics, the wrong politics — which, unfortunately, is the real politics.

    There are children movies created by Muslim producers. You will find in those movies peace and serenity and also education. By the way, batman and spiderman are also translated into our languages and millions of Muslim kids watch them. I can surely tell you that we Muslims also aspire for a world of peace, for a world where Muslims and non Muslims can live together collaborating to do good to and for each other — this is happening already.

  427. aminthemystic says:

    "been there, done that! trust me, the day you are free from him you will notice how much easier you breathe! bravo for listening to your inner guide."

    This is the thing . . .why should anyone trust you?

    I don't believe you. . .

    If you really had done that . . . . then you would know not to say. . .

    "been there, done that! trust me"

    Wouldn't this be the EXACT opposite thing you would want to say.

  428. zitouni says:

    I have asked many times ignorant people like you to explain to me why Muslims did not just clean the Arab world from non Muslims long time ago if you think Koran advocate the killing of kafirs , but they have no answer to my question . Do you know why ? They have read those verses in their historical context . Robert spencer is not scholar of Islam in order for you to use him in your argument he is man who he is making living on people like you . All what Muslims are asking you is to stay in your back yard is it hard thing to do ? . If you refuse which did then do not talk to me about violence or Jihad because you deserve it. You keep mentioning contrajihadist as if we only the only people on planet earth who have military . USA spend more than 300B $ year on their Jihad and nobody ocupies USA .

  429. aminthemystic says:

    "I have seen Doctors and Physcists who are such geniuses but when it came to Islam or Science, they picked Islam."

    !!!

    Says more about you than – doesn't it.

    – – –

  430. zitouni says:

    Yes, White people conquered North and South America. But micro-organism, causing disease and death played a major role in the conquest. It is estimated that 75 % up to 90 % of North American Indians were killed by illnesses unconsciously brought along by Whites

    Bulshit . check this site http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/genocide/n

    Throughout history and before history some people's have invaded the land of other people's and the stronger people won and killed all those resisting. The White people did that too in North America,
    What I found stricking is white people do not have the gust to deny Jewish holocaust while they have no shame and no problem to deny far worst holocaust of other races . It looks that your jewish master disciplined your ass

    just as the Muslims did in India AND VERY MUCH ELSEWHERE TOO.

    Stop lying . fact on the ground does not support your accsation because Muslims today are minorities in India .

    But to say nothing about the vast majority of Indians being killed by micro-organism, diseases and presenting their decline and replacement solely on white agression is ignorant at best and a shameless propagandistic deception at worst.

    read the link ignorant and I am not the one who is making this accusation the Indians themselves

    And of course, when the Muslims invaded India, the Indian Indians had previously been just as much exposed to deadly diseases as the Muslims. So mass death of native population due to diseases did not happen in India during Muslim invasions.

    Do you have your proof of this

  431. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J_Stillwater, war is where violence happens and shows its ugliest face. Without having to read the State Department's report I can say that sexual assaults to women and even making women sex slaves can happen during war, even in today's war. But this is a perversion. I believe this is a violation of the war convention ratified by so many countries already. Accoding to a teaching that I have read, women, children and pregnant animals are among those to be protected during war – this is according to a very old teaching of Islam. So, in my opinion making women sex slaves is a violation of Islamic teaching itself. And, being human, I think it is safe to say that this violation is also conducted by soldiers in general regardless of their religious affiliation. Is there a guarantee that non Muslim soldiers don't do this?

    Yes, J_Stillwater, I am sure you can find your inner piece in your religion. I am suggesting girl C to take that journey, because that was the journey I have experienced and am still trying to continue that journey. I am just sharing what I have. I cannot share what I don't have.

    Regarding those unfavorable descriptions about the Prophet, we have to look at them carefully. I have skimmed through a book written by Martin Lings who looked at the Prophet from a favorable angle. Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to read it thoroughly, but the book received very good reviews from its readers. Probably reading Lings may give us a more balanced view.

    Finally … Shia and sunni. Please understand that during the Prophet's time there was neither sunni nor shia. When he passed away, a political dispute regarding leadership of the community emerged. Unexpectedly, this dispute spilled over to theological areas and into enmity, and it continues until today. Whether someone wants to become sunni or shia, it is for the person to decide.

    The issue of shia and sunni is quite a thorn in the flesh of the ummah. We don't know when it will end, but surely some notable people from both sides are already working to build the bridge between these two important schools of thought. I am optimistic hat these discrepancies will be solved in one way or the other, and their solution will contribute to the world's peace.

  432. zitouni says:

    That equal rights are being denied to minorities under Muslim rule, while Muslims have equal rights under Democratic law, that surely is an unfair situation.

    Muslims in the west just play by the rules that you have . They respect and recognise your constitution while non Muslims in Muslim world do not . You want us to hire people in political office even though they do not recognise the constitution of the country in which they live , are you nuts ?

    But if Muslims argue that some kind of enemy may not enter into powerful situations in Islamic countries,

    We do not consider them to be enemies

    then that would justify the Western countries and India to do the same to Muslims in terms of discrimination in their countries.

    It is not really discrimanation it is about allowing people who do not recognise your constitution to be in charge of runing the country . The west would not allow that to anybody while you want us to do so.

    And them doing it would leave Muslims in Democratic countries without defense because of Muslims in Islamic countries are discriminating themselves.

    Lets assume I live in Holand and I want to ran for political office and I tell to people I do not believe in your political process nor I believe in the constitution what will be the reaction of the Dutsh people ?

    Kafirs not doing this should be cause for fair-minded Muslims in Democratic countries to urge publicly their fellow Muslims in Islamic countries to give minorities the same rights that Muslims in Democratic countries enjoy.

    If you give right to Neo Nazists , Communist and everyboy who hates your constitution then maybe we would do the same back home . Do you remember the plitician Haider
    from Austria when the world turned upside down when he wanted to ran for political office

    It is plain unfair to demand and profit from fair play in one group of countries and then giving unfair advantage to Muslims only in another group of countries. This would only be fair if citizens of both groups could migrate to the other group and if Muslims who are more loyal to Islam than to democratic governments when the 2 have conflicting interests can, after consistent refusal to change, be extradited to Islamic countries.

    Honestly I do not encounrage Muslims to engage in political process in non Muslims countries

  433. aminthemystic says:

    But people DON'T see the truth in you . . . they see the darkness.

    – – –

    Even non Muslims at large condemn your type . . .

    You personally?

    Well – you aint got the profile.

    – – –

    Geller, Spencer . . .out of the extreme circle – they are condemned by West itself.

    – – –

    Book sales? Look at it . . .

    Not even your alleged supporters have bothered to read it.

    – – –

    Like I have said.

    I have got the grave ready!

    – – –

    Smart move to er . . . . ""issue"

    A challenge – and an attempt to build me up as er . . . an "Imam"

    – – –

    Else the this darkness cannot cope.

    Truth?

    Don't make me laugh.

    As it is Christmas – there is enough comedy to go around. . . .

  434. aminthemystic says:

    Ha ha ha . . . . see the hate!

    This personal.

    – – –

    "He is probably an imam in a mosque in London and realizes if people find the truth no one will pay him any respect or money. "

    Yet evidence points that I am not.

    – – –

    "People like Aminriadh don't believe in anything."

    This is an OBVIOUS lie. . . .

    Poor effort!

  435. aminthemystic says:

    "But then, how do you react to those Muslims who are in favor of this? "

    By dismissing their arguments.

    – – –

    "Are you prepared to sign the "freedom pledge" of the Former Muslims, which specifically says that the deathpenalty or any penalty for apostasy from Islam is not supported by the signer? "

    Nope – as this WOULD never happen or work.

    Muslims have their own treaties and make such treaties/pacts and in fact do.

  436. aminthemystic says:

    "In democratic countries Muslims have equal rights and on principle can become president/ prime minister but in Islamic countries the fellow-Christians, fellow-Atheists and fellow-Hindus-Buddhists-Jews of Western/ Indian etc. people of those religions/ ways of life are not granted equal rights and the possibility to become president/ prime minister. "

    Muslims are NO given special status. But treated equally – under a secular system.

    So when you say:

    "But this attitude among Muslims worldwide supports and sustains an enormous unbalanced and unfair situation worldwide, namely that … "

    No it doesn't.

    People act out of their belief. It is Western system to secularise their countries.

    – – –

    This equal rights things here is bogus and a red herring.

    – – –

    Non-Muslims in Muslims countries should be treated fairly and peacefully.

    And how a Muslim wishes to be treated – that is how he should treat his non Muslim counterpart.

    Hence – Peace, Justice Social and Welfare security, civil rights and what not.

    A Muslim state is INTENDED to be a religious state . . . NOT a secular state. . .

    Hence a non-Muslim cannot become head of state . . . .

    But they have the autonomy

    – – –

    AFTER ALL

    This is what the "Golden Rule" is about.

    – – –

    You cannot say that a non-Muslim system should be applied OVER and ENFORCED on Muslims who do NOT want it. This is where your argument leads to.

    Same way – Muslims should offer autonomy and freedom to their non Muslim counterparts. Because ultimately – that is how ideally a Muslim would wish to be treated.

    – – –

    "This unjust situation on a worldwide scale should not be tolerated by mankind and in the future large numbers of Muslims should protest against this worldwide unjust advantage of Muslims. "

    What you say above and this doesn't go together.

    It sis simply too vague and unspecific to mean much.

    – – –

  437. aminthemystic says:

    "And the strange thing is that the interpretations of Islam-clerics in Islamic countries often is very close to what counterjihadists say and fear on some doctrinepoints of Islam and much more in contradiction to what Islam-apologists say about the same points."

    Have you actually got examples . . . or is it make belief again?

    Something which you are rather good at.

    – – –

    "Robert Spencer on Jihadwatch is showing and joking about this phenomenom almost every day."

    Who is NOT a scholar – but a vicious hate monger.

    The difference you ask?

    The hypocrisy and the lies.

    Spencer isn't about carrying out objective study of Islam. He is biased. And read as such. There isn't anything particularly wrong with being biased. As long as it is understood. In Spencer's case his lies and hatred is over stepping the mark.

    He is Christian Fundamentalist – simply hell bent on declaring Islam as evil – by any means necessary.

    – – –

    This is why when you say you are well read. . . .

    No you are not.

    Reading such material DOES NOT make you well read.

    It makes you brainwashed.

    Hence you mention just these types of names.

    – – –

    "Muslims are simply not credible in wanting genuine worldwide peaceful coexistence, and not fair, when they do not see something very wrong with that situation, I think. "

    As you say . . . "you think".

    And we know what you think . . .

    Hypocrisy over Julia for instance. . . .

    One can make the case . . .you are NOT for world peace either.

  438. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… You mentioned that not every muslim is obliged to go to war… according to the qur'an, every muslim is called to jihad… in all of its aspects… all the time… until the world is completely subdued under the domination of islam.

    Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know. (002:216) Khan

    In other words… even if you are not engaged in the violent aspects of jihad… you are supposed to be supporting those aspects… When you say "go to war," your statement is not accurate… because muslims are always "at war" with the kafir… muslims are always fighting to overthrow the rest of the world… this is why islam is a violent religion… it must be violent… muslims must kill… maybe you don't like to kill… but you are commanded by the qur'an to support those who do… you are commanded to have just as much blood on your hands as they do… because you are called upon to give them all the support they require to achieve their goal…

    What a horrible world the muslims are creating for our children, and all for a man who said he flew to heaven on a mule-creature without a space suit, or goggles, or oxygen, or something to protect him from the vacuum of space, or something to shield him from the temperatures of re-entry… it's like I'm in a nightmare that I can't wake up from.

    J Stillwater

  439. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… Thank you for your answers… and yes… in fact… you muslims DO practice the enslavement of prisoners of war and you still DO engage in the taking of sex slaves… in fact… you are one of the ONLY groups of people on the planet who still does… and this is according to the United States State Department Trafficking in Persons (TIP) Report. http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/

    You talk about the "beauty" you feel of inner peace… don't all other religions speak of this same inner peace? If can get this same inner peace from say, christianity (a religion where i'm not asked to kill other people), wouldn't it be better for me to become a christian? How about a buddhist… don't buddhists say they feel this sense of groundedness and inner peace? Sure they do… but they don't require their followers to kill apostates, and people who burn their religious books… and their prophet isn't famous for looting and stealing other people's belongings and killing their families and sexually assaulting their wives… oh… and "thighing" a six year old girl and having intercourse with her when she was 9.

    Finally… if someone becomes a muslim, do you recommend they become a shia or sunni or another sect… and if so…. why do you choose this sect over the others?

    Thank you again for your answers above.

    J Stillwater

  440. Demsci says:

    "5. I do not support that apostates should be killed"

    But then, how do you react to those Muslims who are in favor of this?

    Are you prepared to sign the "freedom pledge" of the Former Muslims, which specifically says that the deathpenalty or any penalty for apostasy from Islam is not supported by the signer?

  441. J_Stillwater says:

    @zitouni… can you show me where "scholars" are saying that it is no longer halal to take women as prisoners of war? How can "scholars" go against the sunnah of their prophet?

    Also… you said "people who invented slavery have changed their behavior so muslims can no longer take women as prisoner of war…" So… by this logic… when the people "change their behavior" is when muslims change theirs? Are you saying that human decency is based on what other people do? In other words, muslims don't hate things just because the things are reprehensible? They change their tune based on what "others" decide is acceptable behavior? That's what your post means… why wouldn't muslims continue to take slaves regardless of what other people see as normal? Why wouldn't muslims say no to slavery, even if everyone around them is saying yes to it? What is the matter with muslims that they cannot see the insanity in these things?

    Above, you stated the the qur'an "allow you to have full sexual relation with her." How nice! Who gives the qur'an the authority to have sex with a woman against her will? What the hell gives a muslim the right to take this woman captive and then rape her? Muhammad raped his captives. His companions wanted to practice coitus interruptus just so they wouldn't impregnate them and lower their value at auction… please don't beguile us with tales of protecting these women's human rights… that is a lie. The reason you muslims say the things you say about it is because it is an embarrassment for you to have to explain muhammad's savage behavior.

    J Stillwater

  442. J_Stillwater says:

    @zituouni… your comment about slavery is also dishonest… you state, like many muslims, that slavery was "widely practiced" in the times of muhammad… yes… this is true… you also state that there was nothing to do with the prisoners of war but take them along with you… I will accept this… but… you then make the HUGE leap to the sexual component… and state that if two people are living in a house together… "things are gonna happen." This is dishonest… because YOU KNOW muhammad and his raiders had sex with the captive women on the very night they were captured… in the soldier's tents… and NOT living in their homes… and this was a regular occurrence and in fact, it was one of the things muhammad promised his soldiers as an enticement to get them to go on raids with him (please ask me to give proofs… PLEASE)… They had sex with them hours after they had slaughtered their husbands and fathers… sometimes on the very same day! How can you equate this behavior with the United Nations? Raping female prisoners is not protecting their HUMAN RIGHTS!" You and Muslim Man know full well that this is true… and yet, you avoid just being straight and saying, yes… muhammad raped his captives… period. Be proud of your prophet… don't try to skate around the issue by trying to make it look like humanitarian efforts… they killed the men… and enslaved the younger boys and women and girls… and then, many times the same day… they raped them… proudly proclaim the fact that he and his soldiers captured women and forced them to have sex with them on the very day they killed their families… Be proud of it.

    J Stillwater

  443. sfsdfsdfsfasdf says:

    looool. wut success? Islam is a joke. It only grows through a abnormal birth rate and brings violence, intolerance and ignorance wherever it goes. I have seen Doctors and Physcists who are such geniuses but when it came to Islam or Science, they picked Islam. Muslim apologists can talk crap if they want to saying Salafists are corrupt blah blah. The fact is ALL religions are bullshit if it incorporates into socities politics and infrastructure. It demolishes all factions of individualism and controls everyone like a facsist dictatorship. The reason all other religions isnt as bullshit as Islam is because people have learned to to give much thought or crap to religion. Whereas Muslims are still living in the 7th century and give Islam a whole bunch of regard in their lives. Just get with the program. In 100 years, religion will be non existent inpractise in the west, while Islamic countries will either have a surge of secularists pushing forth the same thing or isolate themselves from the world as their oil runs out and have to go suck Americas dick.

  444. Demsci says:

    Zitouni, there are the Quran-Hadiths-Sira and Tafsir. And Muslims interpret them in many different ways. And there is no penalty of kicking Muslims out that interpret these texts in the wrong way.

    Your interpretation of these texts on doctrinepoints is just one among many. It has often been shown by MEMRITV and others that in Islamic countries some Islamic clerics have quite different ideas from Islam-apologists about diverse doctrinepoints of Islam.

    And the strange thing is that the interpretations of Islam-clerics in Islamic countries often is very close to what counterjihadists say and fear on some doctrinepoints of Islam and much more in contradiction to what Islam-apologists say about the same points. Robert Spencer on Jihadwatch is showing and joking about this phenomenom almost every day. You often can read him saying; "ha, here I show you from the news yet another "misunderstander" of Islam, according to Islam-apologists' interpretation of Islam."

    Like concerning your "historic context"-argument. I think it is good, but is there not also this big literalist group that says that all words/ commands in the Quran are valid and prescriptive for all times and not just for the past (descriptive)?

    And how can Muslims advocate peaceful coexistence with equal rights, but ONLY in countries where they are the minority and NOT in countries for other minorities where Muslims are the majority? Muslims are simply not credible in wanting genuine worldwide peaceful coexistence, and not fair, when they do not see something very wrong with that situation, I think.

  445. J_Stillwater says:

    @zitouni… also, your answer about Jihad is not completely accurate either… the qur'an clearly states that fighting in the way of allah is for the spreading of islam…

    Qur'an (8:39) – “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”

    As for the burka and hijab… again… you've answered a question I didn't ask… thereby creating a "straw man" argument… I didn't ask if the qur'an mentions the hijab or burka as required… I said isn't it required under shariah law… and the answer is yes… it is.

    Since you go on to say that you support shariah law… you are implicitly stating that you agree with killing apostates and you agree with women wearing the hijab and burka by law…

    J Stillwater

  446. Demsci says:

    It is a complicated matter. I don't say that Muslims in Democratic countries should be punished for what Muslims in Islamic countries do. But Muslims "here" should protest to what Muslims in power "there" do.

    That equal rights are being denied to minorities under Muslim rule, while Muslims have equal rights under Democratic law, that surely is an unfair situation.

    But if Muslims argue that some kind of enemy may not enter into powerful situations in Islamic countries,

    then that would justify the Western countries and India to do the same to Muslims in terms of discrimination in their countries.

    And them doing it would leave Muslims in Democratic countries without defense because of Muslims in Islamic countries are discriminating themselves.

    Kafirs not doing this should be cause for fair-minded Muslims in Democratic countries to urge publicly their fellow Muslims in Islamic countries to give minorities the same rights that Muslims in Democratic countries enjoy. It is plain unfair to demand and profit from fair play in one group of countries and then giving unfair advantage to Muslims only in another group of countries.

    This would only be fair if citizens of both groups could migrate to the other group and if Muslims who are more loyal to Islam than to democratic governments when the 2 have conflicting interests can, after consistent refusal to change, be extradited to Islamic countries.

  447. J_Stillwater says:

    @zitouni… very clever and evasive answers…. you know… it would be easier for me to believe islam were at least partially true if muslims didn't continually skate around the answers and give answers to questions that were never asked, in an obvious attempt to avoid the ramifications of their answers…

    Whenever you answer one question directly (i.e. "do you support shariah law" yes I do) and then answer another question in a way that avoids the question, (i.e. Do you support the shariah law that anyone who apostatizes from islam must be killed" and you answer with "prophet never killed smebody who apostatizes…" it appears like you are being dishonest and avoiding the direct question… in other words…. the answer to the question would be either yes… I support this law… or no… I don't support it.

    I never asked what muhammad did or didn't do… I asked if Muslim man supports the sharia law that calls for the death of the apostate. You avoided that question, and instead, gave me some answer about the practices of muhammad… which by the way… was a false answer… according to bukhari 83:37… behold:

    "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."

    J Stillwater

  448. Demsci says:

    "Your slave master turned native indians in N America from 100% to less than 1 %"

    Yes, White people conquered North and South America. But micro-organism, causing disease and death played a major role in the conquest. It is estimated that 75 % up to 90 % of North American Indians were killed by illnesses unconsciously brought along by Whites.

    Throughout history and before history some people's have invaded the land of other people's and the stronger people won and killed all those resisting. The White people did that too in North America, just as the Muslims did in India AND VERY MUCH ELSEWHERE TOO.

    But to say nothing about the vast majority of Indians being killed by micro-organism, diseases and presenting their decline and replacement solely on white agression is ignorant at best and a shameless propagandistic deception at worst.

    And of course, when the Muslims invaded India, the Indian Indians had previously been just as much exposed to deadly diseases as the Muslims. So mass death of native population due to diseases did not happen in India during Muslim invasions.

  449. Sakat says:

    My dear friend I love you because you have a child like innocence, I pray the God whom soever he is (though I haven't encountered him, I am trying hard to find him ), to give all happiness ,joy and fruitful life to your entire family especially your kids.I don't hate your belief or having phobia about your religion.Once upon a time I used to love every religion and I had very good Muslim friends and even I help them to pass their academic exams (bunch of them used to occupy behind seats of me during test). I especially like Sufi concept of Islam (it is the heart of Islam,if it is deducted virtually your belief dies natural death) ,infect I have visited many Muslim dargas and put chaders on mazar's ,of late Muslims want to eradicate it, that is gruesome.It was cliff hanger for me ,but then this guy Sina put some valid reasons .I didn't interfered in his quest ,but none of your brethren (pundits of your religions couldn't satisfy us audience ,by refuting Sina's allegations with perfect argument with perfect documents) come forward to answer his basic concern;s about your religion.All the time the pop corns here ,either try to hijack the main issue from us ,or try to advance circular reasoning or else recourse to ad hominem .Now my request to you is ,if you have authority over essence of your religion ,then why? can't you engage discussion (debate) with Mr Sina.Don't use the term "judgement day","hell and heaven","72 virgins and 20 pubic boys" .All these are out dated here.

  450. Sakat says:

    We say creator is perfectionist,don't you think there is lacuna in his creation and his sermon's.His say's(Koran ) won't corroborates with his creation.

  451. Sakat says:

    If Alla created you and allowed you to marry 4 wives ,then and then !!!,why he did not grant you 4 pennies for 4 vagina,s?.What kind of Alla he is, he orders you to marry 4 wives yet not create you with four ….nies. Be practical, think about it.

  452. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Sakat, have you experienced Islam?

    When religiousity is declining, quite a signiicant number of non Muslim are finding their way to Islam. I can understand Muslims coming from poor, unstable countries leaving Islam because of their severe disappointment of the way their leaders abuse religion for political gains and of the backwardness of their people. However, when highly educated people coming from advanced and open societies decide to become Muslim — there must be something interesting about Islam. This is despite all the bad things reported about the Quran and the Prophet, about terrorism and violence, and about backwardness of the Muslims.

    I would like to assure you that Islam is the way to go. It is the religion of the 21st century and beyond. We Muslims are still weak, but we are working extremely hard to catch up with the rest of the world and do it better. Inshallah.

  453. Muslim Man says:

    Dear J Stilwater, to me "fight" in Islam in the form of a war, a battle or violence is something circumstantial and of the last resort. Increasingly, "fight" is being translated as being serious and hard working in one's effort to achieve something. Taking women prisoners and making them slaves were a practice of the past, which was also practiced by other societies. I don't think we Muslims practice it these days. What is more instructive is that not evry Muslim is obligated to go to war, some have to stay behind to do other important things such as learning and teaching. Muslims are also instructed to do good things such as being good to their neighbors, to feed hungry people, to pay the debt of people in bankruptcy, etc.

    Regarding "beauty" – what I meant was the feeling of inner peace that one would find in practicing Islam not only practicing the rituals of it which almost everyone can observe, but also strengthening the intention of us being so minute before God and of us doing these little things for the good of others and of ourselves as a devotion. "Beauty" can connote different meaning to different people, and that is OK. That is what I can say.

    My answer to your questions areas follow:
    1. I live in a country where Islamic scholars play a very important role in forming the philosophy of law in the country.
    2. I believe in jihad — please refer to my explanation above
    3. My wife does wear hijab, and I think it is good and beneficial, but she is not legally and socially obligated to wear one.
    4. I support sharia law, but not necessarily in the form it was interpreted a thousand years ago
    5. I do not support that apostates should be killed
    6. I don't think it remains halal to treat women prisoners as sex slaves.

  454. zitouni says:

    1. Do you live in a country where sharia law is the main law of the land?

    There is no country in World which pratise sharia law

    2. Do you believe in Jihad ("fighting in the way of allah") for the spread of Islam?

    Jihad is not used to spread Islam

    3. Does your wife wear the hijab or burka? Isn't it required under shariah law?

    Koran does not mention hijab or burka as being required

    4. Do you support shariah law?

    Yes I do

    5. Do you support the shariah law that anyone who apostatizes from islam must be killed?

    Prophet never killed smebody who apostatizes

    6. Do you believe it is halal (following the practice of muhammad and his companions) to make female sex slaves of women captured in wars against the non-muslims?

    This practise of taking women as prisoners of war was not invented by Muslims . It existed long before Islam . In those days there was no UN , or human right organization to take care of prisoners of war so the victor have to do something to save life of war refugee and to do that you take them with you . If you have a lady live in your house certainly relationship is going to take place and here Koran allow you to have full sexual relation with her . Today people who invented slavery have changed their behavior so Muslims can no longer take women as prisoner of war and thats what scholars are saying today

  455. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Sanatan Dharma, yes, Muslim men may take up to four wives provided he can do justice to each and everyone of them. And this is difficult. I can tell you also that each wife has the right to take her husband to the court and file the case for divorce. If C is a Muslim, then it is the obligation of her husband to guide or educate her to practice the rituals of Islam. As far as I know, and as far as I practice it, there is no obligation or right on the part of the husband to beat or kill his wife for her unwilingness to practice the rituals. The man can always go to the court to file for divorce. Yet, I can always tell you that there have been excesses where men beat their wives for any reasons – and this happens in all societies.

    As regards wearing the hijab, this is something Islamic scholars continue to debate. Some of them believe it is wajib or compulsory, some others think otherwise. And we Muslims would usually follow either of the two. However, as far as I know, Islamic scholars generally are conservative and women's outfit such as bikini is considered forbidden (haram).

  456. zitouni says:

    In democratic countries Muslims have equal rights and on principle can become president/ prime minister

    Because the Muslim recognise the constitution of the country and respect the politican process

    but in Islamic countries the fellow-Christians, fellow-Atheists and fellow-Hindus-Buddhists-Jews of Western/ Indian etc. people of those religions/ ways of life are not granted equal rights and the possibility to become president/ prime minister.

    Because they do not recognise the constitution of the country which is Koran and Islam . It just does not make sense to seek political office when you do not recognise the politics in the country. Would Dutch people during cold war accept somebody as prime minister who embrass comunist Ideology, I do not think so

  457. Sakat says:

    Man this is 21st century ,even if you try to hide the ugly face of your religion or rather it seems you are innocent follower of that barbarian religion ,you can't.You know what is the difficulty of your religion ,it prohibits you people from peeping in other religion,thus you are deprived from other higher refined knowledge ,whilst you think yours is best. You sit on one side of the shore and repeatedly saying it is best, what about the shore which you haven't ventured .Ali Sina is trying to take you to the other shore(make an attempt to company him), he has lot of article stored in his cite here for schooling new entrant ,I suggest you to read few of them your life will blossom.You know there are four kind of people who walk on the main traffic of humanity ,the one who take,s birth in light and travel toward,s light (non-Muslim infidels),the one who takes birth in darkness and travel towards darkness ( Muslims),third who takes birth in darkness but travels towards brightness ( ex Muslims) and lastly there are people who take birth in light and travels towards darkness ( educated Muslims) ,here there are plenty of them.

  458. Demsci says:

    "Bogus argument. Islam seeks to give autonomy over affairs.
    It does NOT believe in a secular political system.
    Hence a non Muslims cannot become head of state of Muslims country."""'''''''''

    But this attitude among Muslims worldwide supports and sustains an enormous unbalanced and unfair situation worldwide, namely that …

    In democratic countries Muslims have equal rights and on principle can become president/ prime minister but in Islamic countries the fellow-Christians, fellow-Atheists and fellow-Hindus-Buddhists-Jews of Western/ Indian etc. people of those religions/ ways of life are not granted equal rights and the possibility to become president/ prime minister.

    This unjust situation on a worldwide scale should not be tolerated by mankind and in the future large numbers of Muslims should protest against this worldwide unjust advantage of Muslims.

  459. Demsci says:

    "But entire Quran is NOT full of those teachings"

    Yet a large part of it is, according to Bill Warner, who estimated that over 60 % of the trilogy "Quran-Hadiths-Sira" is about infidels and almost all of it is hateful. The Quran was also about 60 % that way.

    So how do we judge Quran-Hadiths-Sira in a balanced way? Muslims are often cherry-picking too, even picking abrogated verses.

    These things have to be recognized by some of the Muslims some time, I think.

    It is not sufficient to counter proof of hateful verses just with proof of peaceful verses; instead the whole most important guiding texts of Islam should be evaluated.

    Because Islam-apologists may well advocate one interpretation and one cherry-pick of Quran, but when and where Muslims are in power or fighting against the West, big masses of them may well choose another interpretation of Islam's texts, and that interpretation may be the one that matches up to a high degree what the counterjihadists interpret and fear.

  460. Sakat says:

    Beautiful joke I like it !!!

  461. J_Stillwater says:

    @Muslim Man… I have a few questions for you regarding islam. I would find the answers helpful. I'm asking because you mentioned something called the "true islam" and recommended that someone "take the journey" to find it. As I understand it, muslims are taught to fight in the "way of allah" against the "infidel." Even people who don't want to "fight" are admonished to give money and other aid to those who do. Is that the "true islam" of which you speak? I'm also aware that Islam advocates and allows for women to be taken as prisoners and used as sex slaves by muslim men active in the fighting "in the way of allah." Is this the "true islam" and the "beauty that has enthralled millions," or is it something else?

    Here are a few questions for you:

    1. Do you live in a country where sharia law is the main law of the land?
    2. Do you believe in Jihad ("fighting in the way of allah") for the spread of Islam?
    3. Does your wife wear the hijab or burka? Isn't it required under shariah law?
    4. Do you support shariah law?
    5. Do you support the shariah law that anyone who apostatizes from islam must be killed?
    6. Do you believe it is halal (following the practice of muhammad and his companions) to make female sex slaves of women captured in wars against the non-muslims?

    Can you explain in your own words what this "beauty" is for you, and how you can reconcile this "beauty" with all that I have mentioned above?

    Your answer will be most helpful.

    J Stillwater

  462. Sanatan Dharma says:

    @Muslim Man
    You are a Muslim man you are allowed to keep second, third and 4th wife. If "C" husband do this what option " C " have. "C" can be forced to wear Hijab and follow Islamic rituals. If C doubts and rejects her husband have all rights to beat and even to kill her. I advise all women not to marry at least Muslim man.

  463. Muslim Man says:

    Dear C, I am a Muslim, and I have been one since the time I can remember things. I have been treating my wife with all the love, respect and honor I have for her. And I still think that I have not given her good enough treatment. She is the mother of my wonderful children. She took very good care of me and the family. She chooses to stay home although she has a university degree and although I have always given her the liberty to work and to earn. I don't smoke and I don't consume non-halal products. And, believe me, I continue to be a Muslim and, for that matter, a highly confident one.

    The behavior of your former husband is an exception. From the news and books of novel which I have read, yes there are Muslim people who still treat women the way your husband treated you. I am sad about this reality. But, as you said, this behavior is also found among non Muslims. It so happened that the friend of your husband who harassed you was also a Muslim. But I am quite sure that similar cases, i.e. where husband allows his friend to abuse his wife, also happened among non Muslims. Nevertheless, one thing which I can assure you, there are millions of good Muslim men, and one of them should be the one who deserves your love, who can work with you to create a good and happy family. I have seen examples to support this from among the people I know. My suggestion to you is not to conclude that all the apple in the basket is rotten when you find one or two of them are.

    Further, I also suggest that you don't look at Islam as something exotic. Well, of course, there is a lot of things exotic in the Islamic civilization. But that is only one of the windows through which you can peek at the beauty of Islam. There are so many intellectual and highly educated people who discovered Islam in the Middle East (where your heart will always be) and they became very devoted Muslims. But, again, I can assure you that there are rough and rude faces of Muslims which you will not like – unfortunately you have to bear with it if you decide that you want to know Islam and Muslims in a more comprehensive way. I know, and I sympathize, you were a bit unlucky that Allah introduces Islam to you by presenting this bad face first, but if you continue to dig deeper you will find the beauty which has enthralled millions of thinking people. I really recommend you to take the journey to find the true Islam, and if you decide to take that hard and difficult journey – I wish you all the best.

  464. Ali Sina says:

    People like Aminriadh don’t believe in anything. They defend their livelihood. He is probably an imam in a mosque in London and realizes if people find the truth no one will pay him any respect or money.

  465. Ali Sina says:

    They serve a purpose. It is by contrasting us with these Muslims that people will see the truth in what we say.

  466. Demsci says:

    "If oyu BOTHER to read the above – it is clear HE DOESN'T. . . "

    This is just you in DEBUNKING MODE.

    Where does all this debunking, emphasizing of invalidity and demerits of yours lead to anyway?
    – Either to not-knowingness about the discussed issue.
    – Or to falling back on old theories, claims like those of Islam.
    Whereas instead of debunking all claims, opinions should be awarded SOME merit, but we should among contradicting claims/ opinions, old and new onse, choose the one with the most merits.

  467. Demsci says:

    "Else what is the point?"

    The point is that your claims about Ali Sina are comparable, to our claims about Mohammed. The 2 claims are roughly as valid. And that is in only the best case for you. Because arguments for our claims are abundant on counterjihadistwebsites. And the reader can easily find that out him/ herself.

  468. Demsci says:

    "Son – you can turn practically ANY content into hate/love"

    Wise, but then you should not condemn Ali Sina and exonerate Quran-Hadiths-Sira, but condemn or exonerate both with single standards.

  469. Sanatan Dharma says:

    __________Deeds are important________
    Deeds are not important in Islam to get heaven but it is your belief important in Islam to go heaven. If you believe in Mohammed you will be in heaven howsoever bad are your deeds. Because your belief will help you to get heaven in Islam.
    If deeds are important then Mahatma Gandhi, Newton, Mother Teressa, Buddha should be in heaven but as per Islam they will be in hell forever because they did not believe in Mohammed while likes of Osama will be in heaven forever because he had full belief in prophet Mohammed.

  470. Demsci says:

    """""""""""'''How can one expect YOU to tell the truth about Islam . . . when look at the personal level of hatred you have against me?
    . .
    I think you are dishonest and an individual with lot of issues.
    But unlike someone like "denialisnoproof" and "Julia" – you are NOT stupid at all.
    Dishonest. Yes.
    Very knowledgeable – no. I don't think so.
    Issues? Yes.
    – – –
    Hence why you argue about arguing . . . and you are UNABLE to argue yourself. "

    Response; I think we should focus on comments and not on commenters.

    Thanks for holding up the mirror, but there are no rules about requirements from commenters to comment here, except for extreme cases, within wide borders.

    There are no perfect humans, and I am pretty much average in most respects compared to the whole of mankind. Certainly not somehow less qualified than the average human, who IS allowed to comment here.

    Issues, hate towards opponents, prejudice, morality, intelligence, knowledgeability, motivation why one argues, ability or lack thereof of arguERS are all …

    – not bound by strict rules, perhaps there are borders but like the average human I stay well within those borders, I think.

    – not to be used as deflection from and reason for disqualification, debunking, dismissal-denial of arguMENTS, opinions themselves.

  471. Demsci says:

    "Did you bother to pay attention? Of course not. "
    You were too busy thinking about the false fallacy accusation! "''

    My answers to what you say can never be all-encompassing and you can always point to some kind of lack of answering in answers to your comments. But it does NOT follow that I did not bother to pay attention. This statement above is simply unfair DEBUNKING.

    You imply that that incompleteness the reason why I somehow make an invalid point. In an answer to a specific subsection or your comments.

    This trying to conclude that the answer of an opponent is invalid because of incompleteness is another one of your debunking methods.

    A method which seeks to debunk, disqualify that specific answer and me, the messenger, as faulty, along with it. Positive commenters don't use such methods.

    This was yet another debunking of ONE opinion, not a presentation, competition and informed choice between TWO opinions on the same issue, which I would have tried to achieve.

    Your conclusion above is more based on prejudice than on sound logic. It should cost you some credibility and integrity in the minds of readers.

  472. Demsci says:

    "Actually if you go back and read what he said . . . then I am 100% valid to ask such questions."

    Asking questions in general is a good thing. But what is your intention in asking "What things" when he clearly not only said "things", but he said them in relation to a summing up of 2 or more "things". It seems to me that you try to debunk opponents' statements by somehow implying the impression that they are "vaque", saying "generalities", "incomplete, illogical statements. You imply that it is in addition logical that they cannot answer questions for their implied faulty statements. Or answer in a way that makes or confirms a point. A point you already in advance largely debunked implicitly. By making it look doubtful, shaky, questionable.

    This implicit and often explicit debunking is destructive, negating efforts of opponents. Large tracts of your posts consist of DEBUNKING. Of what Ali Sina and commenters say.

    There is ONE opinion put forward and that ONE opinion you try to DEBUNK.

    I have no such debunking intention. I have a comparing intention. When there is the ONE opinion then I respond by seeking a competing opinion to it, so that we now TWO opinions and then I try to choose the best and let that opinion win.

  473. Demsci says:

    "Perhaps your prejudice IS that Islam IS the highest truth that can be found, because it came from Allah. But then you should admit that. "
    "I ALREADY DO. I ALREADY HAVE DONE!
    This is ONCE more you dishonesty."

    Well, I meant that you should admit that you give to Islam a preconceived position as it being the highest truth, and you allow all claims of Islam to trump all contradicting claims and then you proceed from that position.

    When you respond to what Ali Sina and posters write you implicitly pretend that we try to find the highest truth we all can find ONLY by reason, logic, scientific method. Without starting with an unshakable belief in a group of ideas that trump all ideas contradicting them.

    You should have admitted to Ali Sina and us; "I am sorry, but whatever you bring up, never can you bring up ANYTHING that contradicts Islam, that I can see as higher truth than Islam or as high a truth as Islam. Let that be clear from the beginning."

    This means that engaging in debate with you about anything in contradiction of Islam, We can recognize that contradiction and from that conclude that

    YOUR conclusions are already certain, knowable in advance and you only use evidence and logic to confirm them.

    You should admit that concerning evidence and logic contradicting Islam you will NEVER EVER consider it the highest truth us, you and opponents, can find.

  474. zitouni says:

    J stillwater said : you keep stating this arabic qur'an thing.. so I have an idea… why don't you take Mr. Sina up on his challenge… and use the arabic qur'an to disprove his accusations against muhammad?

    I always correct his errors in this forum

    J stillwater said : You obviously believe you have a superior advantage over Mr. Sina in this regard (saying he needs psychological evaluation)… so… why not show us how Mr. Sina's misunderstanding of the arabic texts, has led him to the erroneous conclusions regarding muhammad as murderer, child molester, caravan robber, rapist, etc.? You could have the satisfaction of getting his site shut down and at the same time you could win $50,000.

    Do you really believe this bulshit of $50 K . I told him in previous debate that he has to keep the money with independent commitee then we selcct judges who are world renown islamic scholars to decide the outcome of the debate . If we won then we get the money . He never replied to my request because he knows he cannot win .

    J stillwater said : The fact is… it doesn't matter if a person speaks arabic or not… because it doesn't take a scholar to see that muhammad was a fraud… muhammad is who he is…

    You have to be an expert to know that

    J stillwater said : and every muslim knows it…

    LOL what stupid exageration

    J stillwater said : you cannot win a debate against Mr. Sina because what he states about muhammad is true,

    You are stating the opinion of an amateur which no inteligent and sain person would take it seriously

    J stillwater said : and you know the qur'an, in any language, supports Mr. Sina's argument… isnt that true, zitouni?

    It could be true for ignorant like you LOL

    J stillwater said : Of course it is. If it were not true, you could, and would, win a debate…

    Wining of losing debate is relative word.

    J stillwater said : Heck, you could just post here in the comment section your finding in the arabic… showing that Mr. Sina is mistaken… but you have not once done this. I wonder why not…

    Are you blind ? check in this forun where I taught your fake expert on Islam new lesson on koran

  475. No Muslim moron says:

    Islamophobia is a trashy term created by psychotic Muslims like you. You are an Infidelophobe who hates all non-Muslims and want to see them dead. Maybe you should be put into a mental institution for your obvious sickness.

    Islam really makes people creepy.

  476. No Muslim moron says:

    "Yes all non-Muslim are deceiver."

    Thanks for proving what UTTERLY EVIL BIGOTS AND RACISTS Islam makes out of its followers, you sick slave.

    Islam is a very vicious form of hatred that you have exemplified perfectly, hater. It is YOU who are the deceiver and a very evil person. FOR SHAME.

  477. No Muslim moron says:

    Oh, shut up, you Muslim nutbag. Islam has poisoned your soul and made you sick. Go crawl back under the rock where you came from.

    Honestly, Ali, could it be any more obvious that Islam causes and appeals to the mentally ill and low IQ inbreds? He's proud to be a "Slave of Prophet" – only a deranged lunatic is proud to be a slave of any sort. HERE is Mohammed's legacy: low IQ and deranged inbreds.

  478. No Muslim moron says:

    ISLAM IS EVIL.

    MOHAMMED WAS A CHILD RAPIST.

    THE KORAN IS GARBAGE.

  479. No Muslim moron says:

    You are one of the sickest people I have ever encountered in my life. But thanks for showing exactly what Islam does to a person's soul.

    Islam makes people sick and evil, and you are a perfect example of it.

    I am disgusted beyond words by your deranged comments, full of lies and hatred. YOU ARE THE HATEMONGER HERE.

  480. No Muslim moron says:

    Ali, why do you even entertain this vile wretch, who has posted thousands of demented and lying comments on your blog? You should just ban his evil arse.

    What a sick, depraved individual – he makes me feel sick to my stomach, he is so mentally ill.

  481. No Muslim moron says:

    YOU ARE A MENTAL CASE. Go look in the mirror – you need to meditate. You are so mentally ill that I don't think there is any hope for you.

    It's beggars belief that anyone could read Ali Sina so obsessively as you have and still defend Islam. Wow! Islam really makes people sick to their very souls.

    Screw the evil, filthy Islam that makes people like you. Or perhaps it just attracts people like you, who are already evil thugs, as Islam is the religion of evil thugs, obviously.

  482. No Muslim moron says:

    You really are a depraved nutbag. Get a life and stop spewing hatred at everyone.

    Islam is evil – and you prove it, as you are evil too. One day I hope you wake up, but I doubt it, because Islam has rotted your soul.

    My god, the depth of Islam's evil never ceases to amaze me, as reflected in creepy fools like you.

  483. No Muslim moron says:

    Sorry, aminriadh, but its you MUSLIMS who are the real hatemongers. Seriously, you must be demented to defend this disgusting cult of evil while attacking others as "hatemongers." Nothing could be as hateful as Islam – look what ugliness it has done to your soul, as you HATE all nonbelievers.

    Islam is utterly evil, and you need to get yourself right, because it's obviously destroyed you.

    That's Islam! Thanks for making me hate it even more, with your complete dishonesty.

  484. No Muslim moron says:

    Muslims continually prove how sick they are, as they call others "liars" when it is they themselves who lie all the time. Hey, aminriadh, we actually have EYES TO SEE the complete ugliness of Islam, just by looking at the foul countries where it subjugated the people in the most savage manner.

    So, grow up, stop lying and being an utterly ignorant idiot. Islam is evil, as Ali Sina and so many others CONSTANTLY prove. With your stupid comments, all you are doing is proving that YOU are evil too – and encouraging me to hate Islam even more.

  485. Briandt-truth says:

    Muslims have been trapped bythe falsehood and insanity of one man, Mohammed.they bury their heads in the sand because it is too painful to learn the clear truthFROM MUSLIMS TEXTS THEMSELVES that this guyis the clearest example in theworld of a false prophet and a guy whose teachings are a danger to mankind.To the friend who commented about Spain having at one time been islamic, I simple ask how did catholic spain get islamic in the first place.Did not muslim armies offensivelyblitz all the north arican coast and across Gilbratar to conquer Spain first.ace it Islam offers the non-muslim world,the sword, tax or death.I am proud to be a follower of Jesus Christ…If muslims will dae read the New Testament or even bhuddist texts…they will see the quran is Hate Speech.

  486. J_Stillwater says:

    @Charlie… yes… and muhammad rode to heaven without any eye protection, protection from the sub zero temperatures of space, protection from the zero vacuum of space, without oxygen, without something to protect him from the infernal temperatures created by reentry into earth's atmosphere… and aminriadh actually says that it's perfectly possible…

    And then, we're called lunatics for bringing these things up with muslims… but why should we be surprised… muhammad did the same thing… he came up with far-fetched things to the mekkans and then, when they said he was crazy… he went to medina… got some muscle… and came back and killed his detractors… and the muslims don't see anything strange about this behavior at all…

    Over and over again the mekkans asked muhammad's uncle to do something about muhammad's endless tormenting of them and their families… but nothing was ever done… so… after being pushed to the limit by this madman… when they decided to take things into their own hands… muhammad gets a revelation that it's okay to kill them… wow… of course he did. These days we would have this man committed to an asylum and heavily medicated on anti-psychotics… and yet, muslims cannot see this… and people keep dying for nothing…

    J Stillwater

  487. J_Stillwater says:

    @zitouni… you keep stating this arabic qur'an thing.. so I have an idea… why don't you take Mr. Sina up on his challenge… and use the arabic qur'an to disprove his accusations against muhammad? You obviously believe you have a superior advantage over Mr. Sina in this regard (saying he needs psychological evaluation)… so… why not show us how Mr. Sina's misunderstanding of the arabic texts, has led him to the erroneous conclusions regarding muhammad as murderer, child molester, caravan robber, rapist, etc.? You could have the satisfaction of getting his site shut down and at the same time you could win $50,000.

    The fact is… it doesn't matter if a person speaks arabic or not… because it doesn't take a scholar to see that muhammad was a fraud… muhammad is who he is… and every muslim knows it… you cannot win a debate against Mr. Sina because what he states about muhammad is true, and you know the qur'an, in any language, supports Mr. Sina's argument… isnt that true, zitouni? Of course it is. If it were not true, you could, and would, win a debate…

    Heck, you could just post here in the comment section your finding in the arabic… showing that Mr. Sina is mistaken… but you have not once done this. I wonder why not…

    J Stillwater

  488. zitouni says:

    Ali sina said : I read the Quran in its context and know the history of Islam and it is clear to me that you haven't.

    stop lying man . I have recommed you to take sycological evualation , have you done that ? . You have no clue about koran because you have not read it in your life . Yes you read translation of koran , but it is not koran my dear LOL . You are famous of quoting verses out of context and when you are caught you ran for cover LOL .

  489. Ali Sina says:

    Sadly, often women lose so much self confidence that they can’t leave. The more they crush your self confidence the more dependent you become on them.

  490. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh… the free word of mouth advertising you will be giving Mr. Sina's site will be priceless (not to mention all the other sites referenced here). I say go for it. What the world needs right now if for as many muslims to come to this site as possible and read your posts… followed by the responses of others here…

    You may find this hard to believe… but… there's a reason you don't see muslims defending you here. And, contrary to what you may think, it isn't because they're not here… or because they've given up. It's because they have no rebuttal to the arguments presented here, but, the visitor numbers at alexa don't lie… muslims are here… and they certainly NEED to be here… because the world is crying for an end to islam… people are dying… over what? Flying mules and 60 cubit Adam? Flat earth and sex with 9 year old girls? Satan playing with your rear end when you leave it unprotected by a mound of sand? Satan living in your ears? Jinns climbing on each other's shoulders up to heave to eavesdrop? Someone blew themselves up in Pakistan today believing they were going straight to 72 black eyed maidens… and here you are, defending all the things I've just mentioned as if any of them were true or even possible… claiming your superior intelligence and belittling those who pin you into a corner…

    Please… please… spread the word about this site… because no matter how you spin it… people will come here in droves to see what all the fuss is about… and many of these people will leave islam… and that cannot be a bad thing in light of the current state of affairs in the world…

    J Stillwater

  491. Charlie says:

    The biggest joke is that you seriously believe mohammed rode a mule to heaven! (after being given a good kicking by your whispering angel). I have been to Temple Mount in Jerusalem and all I felt there was tremendous evil. Those muslim even deny Christians the right to carry their Bible or to even wear a cross – that is what COWARDS you really are. None of you have any shred of belief in allah – only a vague hope that it is not a pile of lies which it is.

  492. Azzurri girl C says:

    Dear Muslim Man,
    I fail to see how this thread is all about hatred for Muslims. Perhaps, some of the comments, but the story is in fact about my love for a Muslim man. In my marriage, my Christian family welcomed him into our home. Yes, sometimes people made off color remarks, but I trusted my husband. We are both young. Money and jobs were hard to come by when he first arrived, so I trusted him enough to live in my family home. He never appreciated this and my family was never the type of family he wanted, but a Muslim could give him a free hookah and he would act like they were angels! I'm not saying that I was perfect in this relationship, I am also flawed. Still, no woman deserves to be told words of hate and hurt like I was and I know in my heart, no non-Muslim guy would have hurt me to this extent. Yes, lots of Western guys cheat and lie, but I doubt there are guys who collaborate against their wives with complete strangers! Him and this awful man he met have ZERO in common except their religion and language. My husband is half his age and they are from different countries.
    O.K. I grew up viewing Islam as exotic and believing it was peaceful as I watched movies like Hideous Kinky (1998) starring Kate Winslet in 1970s Marrakesh. A part of my heart will always be in the Middle East, especially when I recall the person I thought my husband was! However, true Islam is not like the Islam portrayed in movies based on the 1960s and 1970s. To all the girls out there. it doesn't matter how young or pretty you are, don't believe you are different! In my case, I knew my husband had hurt other girls before me, even a girl from his same country and same religion, so I really shouldn't be surprised. With each relationship, Muslim guys look for more submissive women. When the woman starts showing signs of strength and confidence, they leave.

  493. Sakat says:

    Mr Sina ,why these people running away or rather taking refuge in ad hominem ?instead, from answering the genuine issues raised by you about there religion.Why they are escaping from pocketing 50.000 dollars?,very strange.

  494. aminriadh says:

    "The religious apartheid was promoted by Muhammad and is practiced by Muslims all over the world."

    No it isn't.

    – – –

    "All I am doing is to ask non-Muslims to at least respect it and practice it too. We can't be Muslims in other ways but we can be in this way. Don't you love me of this? "

    Obviously not.

    – – –

    Reminds one of Hitler doesn't it. . . .

    Making lying claims . . . as this!

  495. Ali Sina says:

    “Which quite clearly makes YOU the hate monger – and not me. ”

    The religious apartheid was promoted by Muhammad and is practiced by Muslims all over the world. All I am doing is to ask non-Muslims to at least respect it and practice it too. We can’t be Muslims in other ways but we can be in this way. Don’t you love me of this?

  496. aminriadh says:

    May I be the first to express my suspicions about "Muslim Man"

    Another tactic!

    – – –

    "His war were not war but raids (ghazwa). He raided villages and towns who had done him nothing, to plunder them. Even before coming to power he used to go to various places and meet different people telling them he is a prophet and if they join him he will make the rich through raid and plunder. I am not making this up. This is in the Sira and it will be also in my movie. "

    Sure – then you could add references to the above claims.

    The thing is Sina simply picks and chooses what he likes. He has already confessed. Before writing the book – his objective WAS to find material to condemn.

    He simply is NOT interested in the material which contradicts his mindset.

    – – –

    This isn't being objective. And is fallacious use of logic.

    And this method does NOT lead to the truth.

    More will be revealed at:
    http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    But I have already examined his methodology.

    – – –

    He does the same thing with the Quran.

    He ha ALREADY made his mind up – Islam and Muslims are guilty of something.

    Anything flying in the face of it . . . . . excuses, excuses.

    I have REPEATEDLY shown this to be the case!

    – – – –

    "This is in the Sira and it will be also in my movie. "

    Hence the movie will be the same.

    A great deception.

    – – –

    But we all know the failure of the book . . . NOT even his supporters have read it.

    I have NOT come across one person yet – claiming they have . .. . and are ready to discuss it.

    Folk would rather give him money to spout hate against Islam – rather than buy the bleeding book!

    Isn't that tellin'

  497. Ali Sina says:

    “Dear Joe, frankly, violence was not what I heard from my father who taught me Islam.”

    Neither did I. That is why when I studied the Quran to understand it, I was shocked how much I did not know. In he last 15 years I have meet a great number of Muslims who have no clue about their religion.
    _________

    ” Neither it is in the Quran – if you can read it in the context of time when it was revealed. Violence, as I undstand it, is something of the last resort.”

    I read the Quran in its context and know the history of Islam and it is clear to me that you haven’t. Violence was not the last resort but the first and the proffered method for Muhammad. His wars were actually raids (ghazwa). He raided villages and towns who had done him nothing, to plunder them. Even before coming to power he used to go to various places and meet different people telling them he is a prophet and if they join him he will make them rich through raid and plunder. I am not making this up. This is in the Sira and it will be also in my movie.

  498. aminriadh says:

    ". I noted in a recent report that an average of 100,000 British converted into Islam in the last 12 years."

    Which report?

    – – –

    "that those who came to Islam from skepticism and rejection may become leaders of Islam. History has shown this. "

    Such as.

    – – –

    By the way . . . where are you from?

  499. Muslim Man says:

    Dear Joe, frankly, violence was not what I heard from my father who taught me Islam. Neither it is in the Quran – if you can read it in the context of time when it was revealed. Violence, as I undstand it, is something of the last resort. Understandably, there have been exceptions. I agree with you this probably is not about hatred, it is more about rejection. I have seen many non-Muslims love Muslims unconditionally, and, vice versa, I have seen Muslims love non- Muslims without any expectation for reward.

    We Muslims claim to be a blessing for the universe. It is a bit unfortunate, however, that we are not really up to the mark. And we understand this. A non-Muslim who converted to Islam long time ago stated that had he been to a Muslim country he would not have become a Muslim. Surprisingly, despite this unfavorable situation, we are observing an increasing number of non Muslims convertingto Islam. I noted in a recent report that an average of 100,000 British converted into Islam in the last 12 years. Despite rejection and skepticism against Islam from all corners of the world, people in the so called most advanced countries are converting into Islam. I will bot be surprised, however, that those who came to Islam from skepticism and rejection may become leaders of Islam. History has shown this.

  500. Elizabeth says:

    When I was in college, I met an Afghanistan man who was a graduate student. I found out that he was not a Christian. At the time, I knew he wasn't from the USA, and had heard about foreign students trying to marry to become citizens. So, I had nothing to do with him. I was raised Catholic, and ended up marrying a Catholic. He was not any better than who you married, and after 3 kids and 6 years of marriage which was physically and emotionally abusive, I decided for my well being, that divorce was the only thing. After threats that he would run off with the kids, the divorce was final, and I thought that he would try to abide by the court order, although an attorney he took off with the kids, and I didn't see them for 3 1/2 years. I put their pictures with a missing children's organization, and with prayers to the Lord, and asking Him if He wanted me to have them back, to return them to me. After he ran off with the kids, and before I got them back, I decided to give my heart to Jesus, and stopped attending the Catholic church. I gave my life to Jesus, and attended a Bible believing church. I would never have given my life to Jesus, if I did not walk away from being Catholic.
    I would say the best decision would be to get divorced, don't let him know where you are. Study the Bible, and attend a church that encourages you to do so. There are good men out there, and those who have attended meetings to help them become better Christian husbands and fathers.
    I know that what you have witnessed seems like a nightmare, I have been in situations that are like nightmares. Life can be better after this, and there is no other way. Too many who are not Christians try to say that Christianity belittles women, but the Bible says that all are equal in God's eyes. The husband should show love to his wife, and the wife should respect their husband. I am taking a class at church on love and respect. Women want love, and men want respect. A good church would teach you about this, and the scripture.

  501. Joe says:

    "No body really care if her life doomed"

    if you were to read, understand and live the words of Jesus or Budha then you would know that LOVE IS REAL.

    Once you experience the Love of God you will get a sense of the Infinite Love of God.. SO MUCH LOVE THAT WE SHARE IT.. 🙂

    peace brother, all we need to remember is a perfect God has created a perfect world it is just our beliefs that are flawed

  502. Joe says:

    Dear Muslim Man,

    I hope that you see that many hear are entering into open discussion..

    This is not about right an wrong this is about truth and the salvation of our spirit..

    Also you use the word hatred.. i offer the word rejection.. rejection of the teachings of mohammad because of the overwhelming evidence that mohammad is Shirt and through His violent acts has forced people into submission or slavery is a better word.

    as Ali Sina has pointed out he has a book and an open challenge which he offers you and you scholar to an open debate and $50k each if your prove hm wrong .. follow this link http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/the-cha… for full details.

    If there are people that are angry, there are many reasons.. and this anger is caused by the words written by a man.. if the quran were from God it would about peace and no doubt in man's mind, and so there would be no reason for violence..

    but you know as a muslim thefre is much violence and the people that suffer most because of islam are muslims.

  503. aminriadh says:

    Is this going to be mere "rhetoric" – just like before? I only savoured the empty words before.

    – – –

    "anti me blog"

    Just so we are clear. I am NOT one jolt interested you as a person. I don't really care for your life. I don't really wish you ill or good will. I pity such darkness.

    – – –

  504. Ali Sina says:

    “I have prepared a grave for it: http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    Wow! That is great Amin Riadh. To encourage you to continue with your anti me blog I offer to have a debate with you once you have at least ten articles.

  505. aminriadh says:

    It is noticeable that you could NOT answer this:

    "Bukhari also has written that Muhammad’s feet and legs were swollen.267 "

    Just so that attention is diverted.

    Page 159 "Understanding Muhammad" 2nd edition.

    – – –

    Watch this space – a whole lot more to come:
    http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    – – –

    It is clear that people actually don't believe you . . . . how many weeks have I been here?

    No one discusses your work. . . .

    Look at how many times I have defeated and exposed your fallacies . . .

    One instance of anyone speaking up for you?

    – – –

    What does everyone actually discuss?

    Islam.

    They come with their own hate in their hearts . . .

    and gather around you.

    I have taken away EVERY single one of their argument and shown it to be false.

    But such people will never change.

    And they are NOT the target.

    – – –

    As you know full well – it NON MUSLIMS themselves in the wide open world.

    That would call you and term you a "hate monger"

    – – –

    Even likes of Pipes showed you the door.

    As he knows full well the credibility you bring.

    And look how quickly Dawkins dropped you. . .. after realizing his mistake.

    – – –

    Hell . . . no one even wants to buy your book.

    Hence they will donate MONEY to you . . .

    But NOT pay, read and buy that book.

    – – –

    I have prepared the grave yard . . . .
    http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    Right here my darling . . . . right here.

    – – –

    So as the evidence goes . . . it is YOU who is failing.

    Do you have anything to reciprocate?

  506. aminthemystic says:

    "Keep showing. Let us see if anyone believes you. I don't know whether you can fall for your reasoning but I doubt anyone else will."

    Sure but who will fall for this absurdity:

    "This would most likely put their lives in peril and I also do not know their real
    names. Even though they remain anonymous, I am immensely indebted to
    them."

    See you sacrifice your rationality – HATE is a powerful emotion. Like love. BOTH need to be kept in check.

    – – –

    "I don't know whether you can fall for your reasoning but I doubt anyone else will."

    As we are BITTERLY opposed dearest . . . it is kind of obvious for you to say so . . .

    The merit is in the argument. . .

    – – –

    "And your reasoned that when this is said with a thong in cheek it is hate, but when it is said with a strait face it is not. "

    How nice of you to lie . . . . THIS IS AN OPEN LIE.

    One who lies is a liar.

    My reasoning is regarding the "intent" behind the saying. Which you obviously forgot to mention.

    By the way it is TONGUE in cheek . . . .thong is a type of lingerie – women's knickers.

    Or were you thinking of arse cheeks?

    – – –

    "I love it when you epitomize the hypocrisy of the Muslim mind and show the world that I am not exaggerating for saying Muslims are not quite like the rest of mankind. There is something deficient in their morality and conscience that make our co-existence with them impossible. "

    Which quite clearly makes YOU the hate monger – and not me.

    Yet you will attempt to lob this at me.

    – – –

    Hence when I expose your book and your little lies over Quran – you have NO ANSWER.

    Not until today anyway.

  507. Ali Sina says:

    “Pity for you are so POOR at proving it. . . .

    As I have repeatedly shown. ”

    Keep showing. Let us see if anyone believes you. I don’t know whether you can fall for your reasoning but I doubt anyone else will. One example is when you call me a hate monger when I say Muslims will go to hell, even though you know I don’t believe in hell and hence I can’t possibly be serious while you have no problem that Muhammad repeatedly said those who don’t believe in his yard will go to hell. And your reasoned that when this is said with a thong in cheek it is hate, but when it is said with a strait face it is not.

    I love it when you epitomize the hypocrisy of the Muslim mind and show the world that I am not exaggerating for saying Muslims are not quite like the rest of mankind. There is something deficient in their morality and conscience that make our co-existence with them impossible.

  508. Elmore says:

    Saher, If you are asked to defend your religion, is this the way to go about it ? All you need was to call a well written article 'fabrication' without providing evidence of fabrication. This is the reason why you Muslims engage in riot when your religion is criticized. You ought to provide a powerful evidence to back up your claim of fabrication; People of the book defend their religion with pen and speech making violent reaction unnecessary

  509. aminthemystic says:

    "The point we are making is that the Quran and hadith teach violence and hate"

    Pity for you are so POOR at proving it. . . .

    As I have repeatedly shown.

    – – –

    "nd tht Muhammad was a very evil human being, far worse than anyone and I'd say even worse than Hitler. I wrote a book about it "

    Yes – a poor poor book. . . . .

    Who no one bothered to print.

    I have prepared a grave for it:
    http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    If the need arises then there will be a better grave. A self-hosted site. But why give merit to the undeserved.

    – – –

    " There are many lies attributed to him that Muslims rehash but my book is based on facts. "

    Not it isn't.

    As this isn't a a fact:

    Bukhari also has written that Muhammad’s feet and legs were swollen.267

    Is it?

    More will be in the aforementioned site.

    – – –

    "Once you see how evil that man was and how evil is the Quran, you will understand why we hate Islam and inshaallah you will hate it too. "

    I am right here – Sina.

    = = =

    Let this NOT be Sina lie and deception.

    That suddenly this Muslim Man before OUR eyes joins Sina!

    Another trickery. . . I am after this one:
    http://liberatednow.blogspot.co.uk/

    – – –

    A lot more to come!

  510. Ali Sina says:

    Dear Muslim Man,

    Welcome to this forum. Please read some of the articles and participate in the discussions. You will come to see that we are not concerned about Muslims and what they do. Yes it is all bad, but that is not our point at all. The point we are making is that the Quran and hadith teach violence and hate and tht Muhammad was a very evil human being, far worse than anyone and I’d say even worse than Hitler. I wrote a book about it and now I am working on his biography. I need to fins some positive think in him so my book does not sound bias and no matter how much I try I can’t find even one. There are many lies attributed to him that Muslims rehash but my book is based on facts.

    Once you see how evil that man was and how evil is the Quran, you will understand why we hate Islam and inshaallah you will hate it too.

  511. Muslim Man says:

    This thread is all about hatred against Muslims. Let me tell you some history. Muslims have their ups and downs, and they have been down in the last few centuries. now they are poor and destitute, corrupt and far away from the teaching of their own beautiful religion. Some Muslims have made the image of Islam even worse by burning churches and by doing many other useless and dangerous deeds. They are doing this because they are uneducated. They are not properly exposed to modernity.

    But to my relief, I have seen Christian writings dated many hundred years ago admiring the lifestyles of Muslims in Spain and instructed Christian young people to emulate them. To my happiness as well, I have seen an increasing number of young dedicated Muslims who are dedicating their lives to the good of others regardless of their religious affiliation. These young people are the hope of Muslims. It is quite reassuring to me that these young people will be the ones who save the world while upholding the tenets of Islam and remain loyal to their Islamic identity. Let me tell everybody in this forum that Islam is rising, and it is rising for the benefit of all mankind.

  512. aminriadh says:

    " You believe in that asinine claim even though it is ridiculous, illogical, absurd and impossible. "

    Nope – this MERELY your claim.

    You are roundly defeated. . . if you discuss anything specific.

    – – –

    "But you accuse me of faking characters when there is nothing strange and out of ordinary in them. "

    There is . .. oh but there so is.

    They conform to YOUR views. As pointed out.

    – – – –

    " Million of women have very similar stories about how they have been tricked and abused by Muslim men."

    Where? This is OBVIOUSLY wrong. Else – evidence.

    – – –

    "What part of this story is out of the ordinary that make you doubt it and what part of the claims of Muhammad make sense that you have no problem believing? "

    This story conforms to your perceptions and views.

    As repeatedly shown – when you discuss Islam – you are always so far . . . defetead. Your little errors, lies and deception is highlighted.

    Here YOU are just mouthing off.

    – – –

    "You Muslims are truly strange creatures. You see black as white and white as black. You love lies and loath the truth. You are attracted to evil and abhor goodness. It is not that you are sometimes wrong. You are always wrong and it is not that you are a little wrong. You are wrong as wrong can be. "

    Merely claims and spiel . . . it has NOT merit.

    When it actually comes to discussing ANYTHING specific about Islam.

    YOU always lose.

    Your errors and lies are ALWAYS highlighted.

    = = =

    The amount of little debates – you have RAN from is breath taking.

  513. zitouni says:

    Drop this racist stupidity. It is amazing that if anyone says similar things about Middle Easter men the whole world will be up in arms accusing that person of racism, but Muslims and their moronic leftist useful idiots have no shame to make blatant racist remarks about the White men.

    You are getting offended just because I mentioned
    the skin color of your slave master and you call that racism . You did not see shit that you say about Muslims which make me to wonder does this diot realise that he is insluting his parents too because they are Muslims

    White men are a million times better than Muslim men in every sense.

    True million time better than Muslims in ethnic cleaning , genocide racisms , barabarismn and much more

    Finally you got nothing to say about my reply except sheading tears for your white men LOL

  514. zitouni says:

    what are you trying to prove concerning the verse 8 61 . You have shown one opinion and ignore the rest of opinions . You need to read the tafsir of this verse in arabic beacsue it is one page long

  515. Joe says:

    ha haa ah hhhaa haa haa haa

    look who is asking for evidence. ha haa haa haa aahhhaa

  516. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    So you tell me about that Imam who tell crazy things to her husband !

  517. Joe says:

    you are so pathetic.. picking on women.. but that is what we have grown to expect

  518. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    I am forwarding following for psychic reading and psychoanalysis.

    "White men are a million times better than Muslim men in every sense. "

    "Million of women have very similar stories about how they have been tricked and abused by Muslim men."

    "You Muslims are truly strange creatures. You see black as white and white as black. You love lies and loath the truth. You are attracted to evil and abhor goodness. It is not that you are sometimes wrong. You are always wrong and it is not that you are a little wrong. You are wrong as wrong can be. "

  519. Ali Sina says:

    I said many times that we judge others based on our own standards. Freud called it projection. It was Muhammad who invented a fake deity and put words in the mouth of his creation. You believe in that asinine claim even though it is ridiculous, illogical, absurd and impossible. But you accuse me of faking characters when there is nothing strange and out of ordinary in them. Million of women have very similar stories about how they have been tricked and abused by Muslim men. What part of this story is out of the ordinary that make you doubt it and what part of the claims of Muhammad make sense that you have no problem believing?

    You Muslims are truly strange creatures. You see black as white and white as black. You love lies and loath the truth. You are attracted to evil and abhor goodness. It is not that you are sometimes wrong. You are always wrong and it is not that you are a little wrong. You are wrong as wrong can be.

  520. aminriadh says:

    "Drop this racist stupidity."

    "White men are a million times better than Muslim men in every sense. "

    Doh!

    There are actually millions of "white" Muslims.

    Just as Zitouni meant – non Muslim

    So do you. . . .

    He is AS RACIST AS YOU!

    – – –

    Try worrying about your own racism . . . . this support of EDL, for instance.

    Hand in had with the mad Geller.

    – – –

    Another NAIL in the coffin of Sina's poor thinking.

  521. aminriadh says:

    Ha ha ha . . .Sina comes out to protect one his creations!

    But look how poorly. Is that it?

    Pontifications and Sanctimony and er . . . "advice".

  522. Ali Sina says:

    Drop this racist stupidity. It is amazing that if anyone says similar things about Middle Easter men the whole world will be up in arms accusing that person of racism, but Muslims and their moronic leftist useful idiots have no shame to make blatant racist remarks about the White men.

    White men are a million times better than Muslim men in every sense.

  523. Ali Sina says:

    The sooner you accept it is over and the whole thing was a mistake the sooner you feel normal. At his age you should really live your life like a youth. These are the best years and the most memorable years of your life. Don’t waste them. Enjoy them like any other young person. The life of marriage and responsibility should come after you have lived your life like a youth.

    At this age you should focus on your studies, take time to travel and see the world, Join various groups, church activities, dancing, sports, etc, and of course date. Just go out with a group of friends and have fun. No body should marry at 22. The right age for marriage is late 20s and early 30s.

  524. aminriadh says:

    " I told him how Mo said kill all infidels jewish and christians. he refuses to admit.
    "

    Did you just say it – or gave him some evidence as well?

  525. star says:

    I ave sa religious muslim. Lives in Canada and hates canadians because v hv no sharia here. he finds faults with every canadian. They dont go to church, they are bad pple, they r immoral. when i argued with him his religion about killing non-mulims, he said in Koran anywhere there is hate versus, i will leave islam. I told him how Mo said kill all infidels jewish and christians. he refuses to admit.

    I know they r liars. They find fault with western countries cause there is no sharia. They love india cause they find Hindus more tolerant. they hear their non-sense and agree with them Because hindus are peaceful.

  526. zitouni says:

    Ali Sina said : Really? So are you ready to denounce the verses of the Quran that say don't take Jews and Christians as friends they are only friends to each

    If you want to interpret and do scholarly work on Koran you got to do it in Arabic koran . The word Awlia or wali singular does not mean friends . Nobody call his friends in Arabic using the word wali . The word wali can have many meaning dependent on the context , but it never means friends .

    Wali el 3ahd = crown prince
    Wali telmid = tutor of the student
    Wali el amr = the responsible
    Wali el 3aros = The guardian of the bride
    Where prophet say no marriage is valid without his consent was he taking about her friends ? I do not think so
    so wali in koran has meaning of supporter , allies . In case of nation state or in international politics it means client state . You can say SA has taken USA as Wali and thats what the verse is refering to . Even in USA American would kill Obama is he
    turned USA as client state of Iran or N Korea or China . It just does make sense Koran will tell you you cannot have people of book as friends and meantime allows you to get married with their women knowing your kids are going to have cousin , uncles , grand parents and aunts who are not Muslims . which people do you have closer relation with your friends , your wife or relatives ?

    Ali Sina said : other and the one that says the unbelievers are najis

    You are repeating the error again

    Ali Sina said : and the one that says fight then and make them find harshness in you,

    You got to take the historical context of the verse into consideration . The verse talks about Mushriks who were at war with Muslims . yes during war you have to be tough with your enemy .

    Ali Sina said : and those that say Jews are pig and monkey and

    The verse talks about some Jews long time ago became pigs and monkey because they sinned against God . It does not say Jews of Muhamed time were as such .

    Ali Sina said : the one that says make them pay jizyah feeling subdued and humiliated

    Jizya is tax whats wrong paying tax , do not you pay taxes to your government . Non Muslims get the advantage not to go to war
    Ali Sina said : and the one that says slay them wherever you find them

    historical context is ignored again . The verse is military order given to Muslims combattants and still concern only military people. You make it sound that verse is urging Muslims to go outside and start killing non Muslims. How do you explain to me the existence of non Muslims in Arab world , if Muslims understood the verse the way you do . The Arab world should have been cleaned from non Muslims especially when you have 1400 years to do the job.

    Ali Sina said : and the ones that say all the non-Muslims will go to hell

    Ask people of the book where Muslims would go when they die .

    Ali Sina said : and the ones that say cast terror in their hearts?

    The word al ro3b means in Arabic extrem fear and yes during the war you are supposed to scare the enemy combattants in order to demoralize them whats wrong with that ?

    Ali Sina said : Oh the entire Quran is full of these teachings. Are you ready to denounce them?

    Teaching which you have mis interpreted as usual because you refused to learn first then speak later , tyoical Persian arrogant

    Ali Sina said : If you do I will take you as my brother and if you don't you are a hypocrite liar and we know your words are nothing but deception.

    The hypocrite and liar is you and not me . You are silent about the cleansing done by your slave master in Americas while you falsely accuse Muslims of having been conducting genocide through out history. Muslims ruled India for 1000 yrs today the hindu got 80% of India and they make more than 80% of India. Your slave master turned native indians in N America from 100% to less than 1 % and you still want me to believe the bad guys are the Muslims and not your slave master . You are from Iran , arent you ? so tell me how many Arabs live in Iran knowing Iran was ocupied by Arabs for hundred of years ¿?

    Ali Sina said : Once Muslims start treating non-Muslims as equal in Islamic countries then wee will believer you.

    There is sharia and it will decide how non Muslims can live in Muslim lands

    Ali Sina said : Words are dime a dozen, show us some example. Show us one Islamic country where non-Muslims have equal right to Muslims and can, for example, be elected as president of that country. Can they? No! Because the Quran says don't take the unbelievers as your awlia.

    Could Obama or any other previous US president be elected , if they did not recognise US constitution and democracy ? I do not think so

  527. aminriadh says:

    I don't think this alleged woman wears the "Hijab"

  528. aminriadh says:

    "
    Those who say its fake are Muslims and they believe in the most evil, destructive cult that Earth has ever seen, so what can we expect of them? Only negativity and destruction.
    "

    A round about argument.

    Saying this:

    "they believe in the most evil, destructive cult that Earth has ever seen, so what can we expect of them? "

    Doesn't let you off the hook in that – if someone raises objection – this doesn't counter it.

    In fact – it gives highlights that you could not answer objections . . . hence there is something to suspicions!

    – – –

    Just as you propose that it s the "Muslims" that are doubters. . . . so the Muslims can simply propose – it is ONLY the anti-Muslims that for this.

    – – –

    However the SUSPICIONS . . . . which you did NOT target are still there.

    Jog on dearie. . .

  529. John says:

    You'll be fine A-girl, eventually. It takes time. Live fearlessly, take off the hijab and don't care about the Muslims. Dont waste your time with this guy anymore, file for divorce as soon as possible.

  530. John says:

    Those who say its fake are Muslims and they believe in the most evil, destructive cult that Earth has ever seen, so what can we expect of them? Only negativity and destruction.

  531. aminriadh says:

    "The world laughs at you and when it doesn't, it hates you. "

    Says it all doesn't – Truth eventually comes.

    – – –

    "These Muslims will believe in anything like that winged mule Muhammad rode"

    Look how TRUTHFUL – the hatemongers are!

    They cannot protect their lies . . . but still repeat them.

  532. John says:

    hi Ali, yes! These Muslims will believe in anything like that winged mule Muhammad rode – as long as they are promised VIRGINS in return.
    O Muslims! Believe that I am creator of the Universe, the 10 headed dragon called Moxy. If you believe me, I will reward you 144 virgins. That's almost double the amount Allah has. You see I make my virgins in China where labor is cheap and the quality is still acceptable. Oh you poor, poor Muslims. The world laughs at you and when it doesn't, it hates you.

  533. aminriadh says:

    Oh dear me no . . . do they all have to be blancmanges.

    – – –

    "Muslims do not believe Islam or Muhammad directly from God's inspiration or command but from their forefathers' words. Which is a Shirk, believeing blindly someone apart from God. "

    THIS IS NOT "SHIRK".

    Which associating partners with the Almighty God.

    – – –

    "Inspite of that if people do not use logic or golden rule, how would they understand that whether they worshippers of Satan or of God."

    Doh! Your whole premise is wrong. Hence the whole conclusion would be wrong. Also – You sa y "In spite of that . . ."

    Why would it be in spite of that? And how do you know people don't use logic? In fact which people are they exactly?

    What measure is it that you are proposing which will show if one is worshiping God or Satan?

    – – –

    " I ask muslims, if a young muslim marries, will he put his own dik or his forefathers inside his wife. This time they will use his own **** but when it comes to Islam they use their forefather words and brain."

    This analogy is meant to be logic!

    Dearie how does this makes sense . . . how do you think "knowledge" get passed down and built upon?

    – – –

    "They don't brain at all, even a snail's brain is faster than theirs. "

    This is DISGUSTING hate similar to Sina.

    – – –

    This person is LYING when he says he is an ex Muslim.

    Yet he does NOT even know the absolute basic of what is and is not "shirk". Then it is such senseless and ridiculous posts.

    And As I said . . . . quite ignoring of "difficult" questions.

  534. Abid says:

    Muslims do not believe Islam or Muhammad directly from God's inspiration or command but from their forefathers' words. Which is a Shirk, believeing blindly someone apart from God. Inspite of that if people do not use logic or golden rule, how would they understand that whether they worshippers of Satan or of God. I ask muslims, if a young muslim marries, will he put his own dik or his forefathers inside his wife. This time they will use his own dick but when it comes to Islam they use their forefather words and brain. They don't brain at all, even a snail's brain is faster than theirs.

  535. Intelligent lad says:

    Buddha said long ago.Bondage causes sufferings. You are emotionally bonded to a person who beats you. Break the emotional bondage .There are lot of good guys in America.

  536. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    But this blog is a farce ! No body really care if her life doomed for whatever reason only these hate mongers are busy projecting Muslims in bad light !

  537. aminriadh says:

    Ha ha ha . . . . as i once pointed out. The intelligent don't claim to be intelligent. They are intelligent by merit.

    – – –

    Pray what was so AMAZING about this reply?

    – – –

    We have a saying – if the Master is poor often the Disciples will support him.

    – – –

    The "Intelligent lad" reckons Master could do with some boost!

    Else –

    "Amazing replay Sri Ali Sina. "

    This is pretty meaningless – and give Sina no credence.

    It only works on the converted.

    But why preach to the converted?

  538. Intelligent lad says:

    Amazing replay Sri Ali Sina. Please develop this post into an article.

  539. aminriadh says:

    Because he has DONE it before. And the alleged writer – when becomes cornered – disappears.

    Here is another one of his little forgeries.
    http://liberatednow.blogspot.co.uk/

    – – –

    Such generalities are meaningless:

    "Imam tells him crazy things. "

    We have had this before!

    – – –

    "At night I wake up every hour,having panic attacks. I can't even breathe. Imagine how scared you would be if your husband or wife became a totally different person over night. "

    This is just what you say. . . . unverifiable.

    – – –

    "This happens to so many girls."

    Doh! Yes – it is common story – hence an easy one to invent too.

    – – –

    Do you know – HOW MANY of your alleged little stories match Sina's views? Then why be surprised at accusation – that you are SIMPLY Sina's creation.

    – – –

    Like past stories – you will be here for some time. . . . then er . . . disappear.

    – – –

    Read that above forgeries . . . !

    Before Sina's little creations did NOT become Christian. . . .

    Of late – oh dear me no!

    He is in league with Spencer.

    And to please him . . . . !

  540. Abid says:

    "Allah created them so that they could worship him but the non-beliver reject Allah and prophet"

    Why Allah desperately want to be worshipped, if He is perfect, He would have no desire. Why He is still hungry even after so much worship by Angels. Why he is still hungry dog for man's worship? Else He would burn people till infinity in hell. Logic doesn't accept this, my brother!!

  541. aminriadh says:

    "Denying & Lying are the main weapons of muslims to defend Islam, else they don't have anything else. "

    This in itself is you dishonesty.

    There are QUESTIONS against you –

    So why don't you start answering them.

    – – –

    Do you know HOW common such lies and accusations are . . . ?

    And for that reason they are pretty meaningless.

    So obvious that anyone against Islam will support you . . . else NOT. Doh!

    So have you got anything else beside such generalities – or not.

    – – –

    Given the sum of your common – I am NOT hold my breath.

    You come out with these few common BS such the above . . . then disappear.

    Then come back. Few spouting of such nonsense . . . and disappear.

    – – –

    Now pin yourself down – and let us see the "honesty" you bring up.

  542. aminriadh says:

    Simple line of questioning . . . about your alleged ex-Muslimness.

    Which country are you from?

    What languages do you speak?

    These are 2 to get on with. Answer them here – more to follow.

  543. aminriadh says:

    "Blathering without evidence has become the symbol of Islam and muslims."

    An what evidence do you and your fellows present? Look at Sina and his exposition.

    – – –

    "A person should should mention 'why' before calling any name."

    I have . . . you are NOT able to answer.

    Hence you are doing what you accuse others of doing. . . ."blathering"

    – – –

    " Whatever we say in this kind of websites are true and proven from islamic literatures , like Quran, Hadith and Sira. "

    No it isn't. That is matter of each issue on its merit. Just because YOU claim it – doesn't make it right.

    For others you say this:

    "Blathering without evidence has become the symbol of Islam and muslims."

    But look what you say for yourself!

    – – –

    "All people can easily understand what I have done that I am a fraud. What forgery I have done here,"

    Claiming that you were ONCE a Muslim. Doh!

    – – –

    "How did someone know I don't answer, How many question the person has asked me? I would answer anyone's question as per my knowledge and understanding. I will leave on people to judge. Even I can say, I have asked many questions to many muslima and Mullahs but they never answered."

    You NOT answering . . . and some anonymous Maulana have got NO CORRELATION.

    Don't deflect son.

    – – –

    " But I am not a lier nor lying is my religion, though unfortrunately I was born in Islamic environment. "

    You are NOT a "lier" no . . we suspect you of being a "liar"

    – – –

    "What forgery I have done here, I myself do not know. "

    This is DISHONEST.

    Else what the accused forgery is . . . I have REPEATEDLY made that clear.

  544. Abid says:

    Better all muslims above claim that there no ex-muslims in this forum, there is only Ali Sina or ( some Jews or Christian with a name changed) is writing by changing names as different persons. Denying & Lying are the main weapons of muslims to defend Islam, else they don't have anything else.

  545. Abid says:

    @aminriadh

    Pls Pls for your God sake, pls mention where you have asked me a question and I did not answer. I would try to answer. It is my mistake I do not read all comments regularly, may be I missed your question to read.

  546. ikba says:

    A touching experience from sister C. God bless in all your future aspirations. Forgive yourself first even as you forgive others and move forward.Never look back the sun will rise again

  547. Abid says:

    Blathering without evidence has become the symbol of Islam and muslims. A person should should mention 'why' before calling any name. Whatever we say in this kind of websites are true and proven from islamic literatures , like Quran, Hadith and Sira. Still they are not believing them. They can't be true believers either they are hypocrates (deny Quran and hadiths) or liers.
    All people can easily understand what I have done that I am a fraud. What forgery I have done here, I myself do not know. How did someone know I don't answer, How many question the person has asked me? I would answer anyone's question as per my knowledge and understanding. I will leave on people to judge. Even I can say, I have asked many questions to many muslima and Mullahs but they never answered. But I am not a lier nor lying is my religion, though unfortrunately I was born in Islamic environment.

  548. aminriadh says:

    <I went through this with someone claiming to NOT only to be an expert on Classical Arabic – but on pre-Islam Arabic too.

    Of course he scarpered. He wasn't an expert of either.

    – – –

    To say this:

    "It also translates it as cleverness and shrewdness but مكر has a negative connotation that the English words cleverness and shrewdness don't have."

    To know this . . . .the only way is to refer to Arabic dictionaries.

    IT IS YOUR CLAIM – So you provide evidence for it.

    – – –

    Although Modern but still relevant and fairly detailed.
    http://www.almaany.com/

    Why not give this a go.

    Or the English source classical Arabic lexicons.
    http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/

    – – –

    Rather than shite.

    See who is willing to deceive and who isn't?

  549. aminthemystic says:

    "Consider for 5 minutes; Abid said that Islam teaches something that he summed up and then he said that Muslims do not declare THAT in public those teachings. "

    Yes but this what he said is false:

    "Islam deserve hatre because it teaches to hate all, non-believers, idol worshipppers, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Gays, Pigs, Dogs and others. "

    And I said that . . . .

    Did you bother to pay attention?

    Of course not.

    You were to busy thinking about the false fallacy accusation!

    – – –
    That is NOT what Islam teaches.

    – – –

    " At leaset be honest, you cannot deny because I myself was a muslim and I know these things but coward muslims are afraid to declare it in public else they will get the return back."

    I deal with the reason why I think this person is LYING when he says "he was a Muslim"

    I have dealt with them in the past.

    He fails to answer.

    Hence suspicions.

    – – –

    Do you think about this . . . .

    Nope.

    It is simply an attempt to condemn and demonize me.

    This is WHY you sold your self to Julia and HER ABUSE.

    – – –

    How can one expect YOU to tell the truth about Islam . . . when look at the personal level of hatred you have against me?

    I don't hate you. . . .

    I think you are dishonest and an individual with lot of issues.

    But unlike someone like "denialisnoproof" and "Julia" – you are NOT stupid at all.

    Dishonest. Yes.

    Very knowledgeable – no. I don't think so.

    Issues? Yes.

    – – –

    Hence why you argue about arguing . . . and you are UNABLE to argue yourself.

    This is why you are always so keen to champion others – but NEVER muck in.

    – – –

    You attempted a go . . .

    I am still waiting over this "alif lam meem" business.

  550. aminthemystic says:

    – – –

    You were simply working up to lob a cheap and false accusation at me . . . hence anything that got in the way – you conveniently took it out.

    – – –

    You do NOT deal with this:

    ""Islam deserve hatre because it teaches to hate all, non-believers, idol worshipppers, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Gays, Pigs, Dogs and others."

    No it doesn't. Your views only. What YOU project Muslims to be. "

    THIS:

    "you cannot deny because I myself was a muslim and I know these things but coward muslims are afraid to declare it in public else they will get the return back. You muslims are coward,absolutely coward. At least I am honest and am not tantalized by you evil fake pedophile prophet Mu-ham(Mad). "

    Huh? I don't think you are "brave"

    I don't think you were EVER a Muslim – you are lying.

    I have asked you questions before. You have NOT bothered to answer.

    – – –

  551. aminthemystic says:

    "Are you deliberately asking these superfluous questions in order to deny-dismiss? "

    Actually if you go back and read what he said . . . then I am 100% valid to ask such questions.

    And I can also point out – you come up with self-made BS and then lob it at me.

    That is all you can do . . . make accusations – then jog on.

    – – –

    "Consider for 5 minutes; Abid said that Islam teaches something that he summed up and then he said that Muslims do not declare THAT in public those teachings. In all honesty, to let the non-Muslims they live amongst or have dealings with or meet know about these teachings which obviously affects the Non-Muslims. "

    Because ISLAM DOES NOT teach what he claims.

    It is THAT simple.

    – – –

    "But in your DENIAL-DISMISS-mode you come up with "NONSENSE" and the irrelevant generality that Muslims believe in Islam (or do many of them only BELONG to Islam, because most Muslims are born into Islam and are forbidden to leave it). "

    he he he . . . . see your dishonesty. . . .

    "DENIAL-DISMISS-mode"

    What did I deny and dismiss?

    Of course I am going deny and dismiss whatever he comes up with that is WRONG.

    That is what is done. . . .that is WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

    – – – –

    "Where is the logic, relevance, worth in that answer? Isn't this a PATTERN in your answers?"

    No it isn't. It so clearly isn't.

    Proof?

    YOU – BEGGING ME FOR RESPECT!

    – – –

    "If it is, for the average reader it should diminish your credibility and integrity, and perhaps, after a long time of repetitions of the same pattern, the high estimation of your intelligence or competence as well. "

    You picked this up form someone you were arse-licking – who I reduced to merely quotes after exposing him.

    ANOTHER one that you backed and I er . . . got hold of – so to speak.

    – – –

    "And I may ask in addition: Is this kind of exchange also referred to by you when you claim opponents lost arguments from you, as you said that I lost argument after argument from you? "

    Doh . . .YOU HAVE LOST argument after argument.

    Or do you deny it?

    You lost . . . and proof? You in the end BEGGING me for respect.

    – – –

    "I do not say that you deny-dismiss EVERYTHING, you do respond in other ways, and often very good. "

    See. . . .

    – – –

    "Perhaps your prejudice IS that Islam IS the highest truth that can be found, because it came from Allah. But then you should admit that. "

    I ALREADY DO.

    I ALREADY HAVE DONE!

    This is ONCE more you dishonesty.

    – – –

    "
    And, maybe for the above-mentioned reason, I think you routinely commit this fallacy: "

    No son . . . you DO NOT really know what logic is and how it works.

    After being "handled" by me . . . you then claimed you had gone off to read what "burden of proof" was.

    Then you were having "views" on it . . . . which is DISHONEST.

    As it takes time to learn things.

    You cannot read something – not digest it . . . and then start spouting views.

    – – –

    "Argumentum ad lapidem (Latin: "to the stone") is a logical fallacy that consists in dismissing a statement as absurd without giving proof of its absurdity.[1] The form of argument employed by such dismissals is the argumentum ad lapidem, or appeal to the stone.[2][3] "

    Adding fallacies by rote – is NOT clever.

    Because you claim:

    "And, maybe for the above-mentioned reason, I think you routinely commit this fallacy: "

    Out of whole lot of maybes and whatnot . . . . you suddenly lob another false accusation atme.

    Hence I say – you are DISHONEST.

    – – –

    I do NOT and have NOT committed any such fallacy.

    When all else has FAILED you – you do this.

    Else read my post . . .

    And read what you pick out.

    Therein lies your dishonesty.

    – – –

    Because what you claim I have said – and what I actually say are 2 different thing.

  552. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    Who is that Imam ? Lets us know and also tell us those crazy things !

  553. Azzurri girl C says:

    It amazes me how many people try to say this article is fake or that Ali Sina wrote it. This is my story. It's very real and very painful. At night I wake up every hour,having panic attacks. I can't even breathe. Imagine how scared you would be if your husband or wife became a totally different person over night. There is no reasoning with him or nothing! This happens to so many girls. They think they can change the guy by talking with him and bringing him to live in the west. Then, he meets all these terrible guy or he goes to mosque where the Imam tells him crazy things.

  554. aminthemystic says:

    "Your insistence that makr can be translated in any other way than deception is a deception. "

    NO – it is YOUR deception.

    As I have repeatedly pointed out you DELIBERATELY miss out the whole story . . .

    Just look at the 2 poor system of dictionaries you paste up.

    Those are simplified versions of actual lexicons.

    THEY ARE NOT AUTHORITATIVE LEXICONS.

    – – –

    TO claim what you claim . . . SURELY you are not claiming these tertiary systems to be your ONLY proof evidence and authority are you?

    – – –

    Word مكر is from Classical Arabic – hence its meaning comes from there.

    Now if you have GOT anything to add. . . .

    else stop this nonsense.

  555. denialisnoproof says:

    "They plotted and planned,"
    plotted and planned ? both means same. plotted and deceived is more accurate.

    why would you use plot and plan as a verb in a same sentence.

  556. denialisnoproof says:

    A muslim talking about shame.

    quran says that it is very clear and it comes with this alif lam meem.

  557. zitouni says:

    This is not what I am talking about plus I was refering only to the white men and not all non Muslims . white men should stay in his back yard I mean people who come to the Muslim world to ocupy and subjugate us such as CIA agents , military personals , but comom people who come to visit , study or work they are welcome . We do not have problem with all Kafirs look for example in latin American nations they are too kafirs , but there is good relationship between them and us even Iran have good relationship with Latinos showing that Msulim hate Kafirs in lie .

  558. ᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

    You can't expect chicken from boiled egg !

    Requiting is law of universe.

    Qur'an 27:50-51 : " They plotted and planned, but We too planned (مَكَرْنَا مَكْرًا), even while they perceived it not. Then see what was the end of their plot!- this, that We destroyed them and their people, all (of them) "

    Now change whatever meaning that doesn't change the actual message what believer manifest. If its deception its the same requiting a deceit. If its plan its the same requiting a plan.

    I have already told you , you will keep mincing chicken and making balls as long as you don't believe !

    more exercise
    http://www.islamicsearchcenter.com/archive/2010/0

    one more exercise translate these two lines in your native language.
    1. Looking into mirror
    2. Looking into matter
    Please keep meaning of "looking" same in both !

    One more exercise please read first sentence of this comment again !

  559. Sakat says:

    No! No! No!………..they would have stoned her ,to protect the dignity of Islam!

  560. Sakat says:

    why Alla prohibit polio immunization.

  561. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh… It's okay… I know you can't answer the above question without putting yourself in danger… but… what I want you, and every other muslim to think about, is the verse I've posted above… qur'an 42:14… I want you to read that verse… and ask yourself… what was Moses charged with? What religion was given to Moses? Ask yourself if the ten commandments would have been part of what was given to Moses… in fact… ask yourself if the ten commandments are the CENTRAL item given to Moses, the item from which EVERY law in the Book of Moses flows. Now, ask yourself if the commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife" applies to muslims… then… ask yourself if it applied to muhammad… see where I'm going with this? The qur'an tells muslims to uphold that which was given to Moses… and yet… muhammad… broke the commandment about coveting another man's wife… and he did so with his own adopted son… and then he said it was ALLAH who made him do it… he said that allah went against the very law allah wrote with his own finger on the tablet of stone… now… can god sin? Because sin is the breaking of the commandments of god… so… can god sin? Can god break his own commandments?

    Any muslim please feel free to jump in here and answer this…

    J Stillwater

  562. denialisnoproof says:

    today they don't use forensic science . according zakir madarchod quran is final.

  563. zitouni says:

    under sharia law, would the victim of rape need to provide witnesses to the rape if there was no confession on the part of the rapist?

    Yes she can if there were witnesses

    If so, how many witnesses and of what gender?

    as many they exist and both gender

    Also, can a rape victim, under sharia law, appeal to DNA evidence if there is no witness and no confession on the part of the rapist?

    DNA is new thing and I believe scholar of sharia can allow to use it , but DNA does not prove rape it only prove that the person had sex with the lady thats all .

    In other words, if that poor girl is sitting there, alone, with no witnesses, no confession, but clear signs of having been brutally sexually assaulted…. will sharia law allow DNA to be used to convict the perpetrator?

    They will use DNA , but also there will also be investigation to determine that the `person did rape the lady or not .

    Can you also provide proofs for your answers from islamic texts? I think it would be very instructive for everyone following the thread.

    You do not use Islamic text to do detective work investigation . Today they use forensic science and police investigation to determine whether rape took place or not

  564. Demsci says:

    "I myself was a muslim and I know these things"

    "What things?" asked by you.

    Well, DOH! The things he mentioned and you repeated!:
    "it teaches to hate all, non-believers, idol worshipppers, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Gays, Pigs, Dogs and others." ""

    Are you deliberately asking these superfluous questions in order to deny-dismiss?

    "coward muslims are afraid to declare it in public else they will get the return back. "

    Your reaction: "This is just NONSENSE! Consider for a minute. Muslims BELIEVE in Islam. . . so where is this alleged cowardice?""

    Consider for 5 minutes; Abid said that Islam teaches something that he summed up and then he said that Muslims do not declare THAT in public those teachings. In all honesty, to let the non-Muslims they live amongst or have dealings with or meet know about these teachings which obviously affects the Non-Muslims.

    But in your DENIAL-DISMISS-mode you come up with "NONSENSE" and the irrelevant generality that Muslims believe in Islam (or do many of them only BELONG to Islam, because most Muslims are born into Islam and are forbidden to leave it).

    Where is the logic, relevance, worth in that answer? Isn't this a PATTERN in your answers? If it is, for the average reader it should diminish your credibility and integrity, and perhaps, after a long time of repetitions of the same pattern, the high estimation of your intelligence or competence as well.

    And I may ask in addition: Is this kind of exchange also referred to by you when you claim opponents lost arguments from you, as you said that I lost argument after argument from you?

    I do not say that you deny-dismiss EVERYTHING, you do respond in other ways, and often very good.

    But you do take denial-dismissal to new levels, it seems to me you might as well state:

    "My most important desire/ goal is to deny/ dismiss as many demerits or criticisms, accusations of Islam as I can, in order to help the continuation and expansion of Islam, and this is more important to me than finding the highest truth that can be found and than continuing and expanding that."

    Perhaps your prejudice IS that Islam IS the highest truth that can be found, because it came from Allah. But then you should admit that.

    And, maybe for the above-mentioned reason, I think you routinely commit this fallacy:

    Argumentum ad lapidem (Latin: "to the stone") is a logical fallacy that consists in dismissing a statement as absurd without giving proof of its absurdity.[1] The form of argument employed by such dismissals is the argumentum ad lapidem, or appeal to the stone.[2][3]
    Ad lapidem statements are fallacious because they fail to address the merits of the claim in dispute. Ad hominem arguments, which dispute the merits of a claim's advocate rather than the merits of the claim itself, are fallacious for the same reason. The same applies to proof by assertion, where an unproved or disproved claim is asserted as true on no ground other than that of its truth having been asserted."

  565. infidel/kafir says:

    Vijay is obviously a confused guy . By his confusion, he is giving you a false sense of your superiority or bizzare explanations. This case has no religion . This is done by most cruel criminal minded bastards. The point to note is that actually ISLAMIC tenets fit in this kind of scenario. In ISLAMIC countries , there are plenty of rapes . Homosexuals, drinking, sex , smoking are all common in many ISLAMIC countries , but they know how to do all those things .

  566. vijay says:

    There is another news about a lady, who was raped and village council, told her to accept the compensation from rapist side and should not go to the police. Further to it Rapist here is Muslim and perhaps rape victim also. In past there was Imrana rape case here father in law raped his daughter in law and Islamic seminary told her to live like wife with her father in law. Just giving the more info.

  567. infidel/kafir says:

    Your attitude will not help any way. ISLAM/MOSLEMS are beyond redemption . The rules of civility,peace,love,freedom,democracy, tolerance, respect, equality are meaningless to Moslems – because they absorbed too much poison injected by MO . Can you change them by being so loving,peaceful and polite, tolerant, acceptance, equality , etc. Moslems know fully well that they must be superior and the rest must be under them – as long as you are not disturbing this proviso, they will be ok. But the moment you tell the truth , Moslems go berserk. The world is faced with this horrendous task , how to bring the moslems to this human civilization. But alas , there is no right path yet . Dr. ALI SINA is doing his best .

  568. infidel/kafir says:

    AMINRIADH :: You dont have the honesty and conscience . Your soul is dead as MO said . You exceed your instigator and pedo,rapist MO , liar Mo, killer mO , lecher Mo , sex maniac MO, slave promoter MO. But you are a coward as you cant do all those things . Are you in USA ? Be honest or otherwise Mo will drag you to his hell.
    Any way , besides all of the above, You fit to be A BOZO , a true BOZO and you earned your grit unlike your pedo master MO. Kudos for you. on your great achievement.

  569. Ali Sina says:

    Copy the verb مكر and paste it in this online dictionary. http://www.systranet.com/translate/
    The only translation you get is “deception”

    Find the meaning also in this dictionary: http://www.arabicenglishdictionary.org/?source=%D
    Again it s deceitful. It also translates it as cleverness and shrewdness but مكر has a negative connotation that the English words cleverness and shrewdness don’t have. مكر can also also be translated as tricking, fooling. It can never be translated as planning in the way this word in English is understood. You can plan your finances, a vacation, a business, etc. But makr cannot be used for any of these cases.

    Your insistence that makr can be translated in any other way than deception is a deception.

  570. aminriadh says:

    Why is it people like you pick out the bits and proclaim this:

    "o are you ready to denounce the verses of the Quran that say don't take Jews and Christians as friends they are only friends to each other and the one that says the unbelievers are najis and the one that says fight then and make them find harshness in you, and those that say Jews are pig and monkey and the one that says make them pay jizyah feeling subdued and humiliated and the one that says slay them wherever you find them and the ones that say all the non-Muslims will go to hell? Oh the entire Quran is full of these teachings."

    – – –

    Yet:

    "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors."

    "And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

    – – –

    If you were truthful . . . then you would have presented a complete picture.

    But you are not. . . .

    Hence you don't.

    – – –

    This is why your cover of "rationality" gets blown out of water.

    For example there isn't much rationality in saying.

    Obama is a Muslim. He wasn't born in USA.

    When it is clear . . . why you have acquired such views.

    And who your pay masters are.

    – – –

  571. aminriadh says:

    "So are you ready to denounce the verses of the Quran that say don't take Jews and Christians as friends they are only friends to each other and the one that says the unbelievers are najis and the one that says fight then and make them find harshness in you, and those that say Jews are pig and monkey and the one that says make them pay jizyah feeling subdued and humiliated and the one that says slay them wherever you find them? Oh the entire Quran is full of these teachings. "

    But entire Quran is NOT full of those teachings. . .

    Lets look at it . . .

    Quran 4:89

    "They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

    Quran 4:90

    "Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them."

    – – –

    Hence why people like you pick and choose verses . . . yet the next verse exposes your lies, drama and hate.

    – – –

    I have fair and realistic views of Quran, Hadith and Islam.

    Unlike you . . . which works on repeatedly lies.

    – – –

    Do I have to name the fallacy where you pick and choose "evidence" that is for you. . . and leave the one against you. Rather than addressing it?

    = = =

    "Show us one Islamic country where non-Muslims have equal right to Muslims and can for example be elected as president of hat country. Can they?"

    Bogus argument. Islam seeks to give autonomy over affairs.

    It does NOT believe in a secular political system.

    Hence a non Muslims cannot become head of state of Muslims country.

    – – –

    "No! Because the Quran says don't take the unbelievers as your awlia. "

    Read my comment!

  572. Ali Sina says:

    “I propose people to live in Harmony – Muslim and Non Muslims.

    Really? So are you ready to denounce the verses of the Quran that say don’t take Jews and Christians as friends they are only friends to each other and the one that says the unbelievers are najis and the one that says fight then and make them find harshness in you, and those that say Jews are pig and monkey and the one that says make them pay jizyah feeling subdued and humiliated and the one that says slay them wherever you find them and the ones that say all the non-Muslims will go to hell and the ones that say cast terror in their hearts? Oh the entire Quran is full of these teachings. Are you ready to denounce them? If you do I will take you as my brother and if you don’t you are a hypocrite liar and we know your words are nothing but deception. Once Muslims start treating non-Muslims as equal in Islamic countries then wee will believer you.

    Words are dime a dozen, show us some example. Show us one Islamic country where non-Muslims have equal right to Muslims and can, for example, be elected as president of that country. Can they? No! Because the Quran says don’t take the unbelievers as your awlia.

  573. aminriadh says:

    🙂

    Joe!

  574. Joe says:

    "Is this some kind of weird joke? Surely – YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS!"

    you call following a war lord an act of God… now that is a weird joke.

    you totally ignore the millions of people murder by islam.. is that a joke?

    just offering some true words of wisdom but you preferr death and threats..

    It is God that we should fear…
    before God i can say i tried my best to help you understand, so i have nothing to fear. 🙂

  575. aminriadh says:

    Well that is you . . . hence why I term you the hate-monger.

    I propose people to live in Harmony – Muslim and Non Muslims.

    – – –

    You are an advocate of violence.

    And hate.

    You always have been.

    That is why I oppose you – and people like you.

    – – –

    So cut the crap and jog on . . .

  576. Ali Sina says:

    Yeah, I am telling them. I am proposing an apartheid between Muslims and non-Muslims. Let all non-Muslims leave the Islamic countries and also Muslims return to their home countries. Sorry the relationship did not work. It is time for divorce.

  577. Saher says:

    Who will allow him to show his nasty movie?
    I had a dream that he is hand-cuffed !

  578. aminriadh says:

    Because you have invented a few. . .

    Look here:
    http://liberatednow.blogspot.co.uk/

    Here is one of your lies . . .

    See her alleged emails and this great yarn doesn't add up either.

    – – –

    Oh – the AMERICANISM of it all!

  579. aminriadh says:

    "I was the first to start the anti Islam movement on the Internet and I have remained consistent in my original views,"

    Your claims – 1st you wandered around Yahoo Groups. Then there was a grubby little website. I remember you.

    You have been consistent in your hate . . . in growing it.

    But you PROBABLY were not the 1st. . . not that there is much merit in it.

    As for you political views . . .

    THAT IS A NEW SHADE.

    – – –

    "This war is over survival of the human civilization. Muslims have declared a war on all mankind so everyone must join force and fight it. "

    BS and even you know it.

    Muslims haven't. Muslims ARE an ever growing part of humanity. If birth rates are to go by!

    – – –

    "That is why I’ll work happily with people of all faiths and non-faiths, as long as they all want to see the end of Islam"

    There is DIFFERENCE between working with someone and selling your self off.

    When it comes to Obama and Right Wing – you are a hypocrite.

    – – –

    " I will not work with those who claim Islam can be reformed or can become moderate. "

    Doh!

    A lie right there . . . . you were up Daniel Pipes – before he spat you out.

    – – –

    " even Richard Dawkins"

    No he hasn't. Dawkins is against ALL religion.

    – – –

    "Ayan Hirsi Ali"

    Well! You are certainly as hypocrite as her!

    – – –

    "We don’t have to share their theological views or our allies. "

    A lie – Hirsi-Ali

    HAS sold herself . . . . and rather cheaply.

    – – –

    But you are a hatemonger and nothing more.

    Brain trouble.

  580. Ali Sina says:

    @Aminriadh,
    I was the first to start the anti Islam movement on the Internet and I have remained consistent in my original views, even though I would not hesitate to change them if I find a better way. And from very early on I realized all non-Muslims must unite and put their petty differences aside and work together. Muslims thrive when we are disunited and fight over religion. This war is not over religion and if it were, I would not want to have anything to do with it. This war is over survival of the human civilization. Muslims have declared a war on all mankind so everyone must join force and fight it.

    That is why I’ll work happily with people of all faiths and non-faiths, as long as they all want to see the end of Islam, I will not work with those who claim Islam can be reformed or can become moderate. We can’t win this war by deceiving ourselves. I consider them as part of the problem.

    I am very glad that Ayan Hirsi Ali and even Richard Dawkins have realized our main enemy is Islam and are willing to work with Christians and people of other faiths. We don’t have to share their theological views or our allies.

  581. aminriadh says:

    Is this some kind of weird joke? Surely – YOU ARE NOT SERIOUS!

  582. aminriadh says:

    Is this suppose to impress me?

    A preacher! A whole load of blah, blah . . . just carry on son!

  583. Joe says:

    in Islamic country like Iran,

    young women that have been sentenced to death have been raped in prison so that they are not virgins and can be executed
    http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/iran-virgin-pr

  584. Joe says:

    cont..

    Yet all that stands between you, and the power of God in you, is but your learning of the false, and your attempts to UNDO THE TRUE. Be willing, then, for ALL of it to be undone, and be glad that you are not bound to it forever. For you have taught yourselves HOW TO IMPRISON THE SON OF GOD, a lesson so unthinkable that only the insane, in deepest sleep, could even DREAM of it. Can God learn how NOT to be God? And can His Son, GIVEN all power BY Him, learn to be powerLESS? What have you taught yourselves that you can possibly prefer to keep, in place of what you HAVE, and what you ARE?
    ..

  585. Joe says:

    another great example of childish denial.. keep going aminraih

    The Test Of Truth (from a course in miracle)

    But the essential thing is learning that YOU DO NOT KNOW. Knowledge is power, and all power is of God. You who have tried to keep power for yourselves, have lost it. You still HAVE the power, but you have interposed so much between it and your AWARENESS of it, that you cannot use it. EVERYTHING you have taught yourselves has made your power more and more obscure to you. You know not WHAT it is, nor WHERE. You have made a SEMBLANCE of power, and a SHOW of strength, so pitiful that it MUST fail you. For power is not seeming strength, and truth is beyond a semblance of any kind.

  586. Aminriadh says:

    Excuses, Excuses.

    You have had your day . . . . now you are free to bother anyone else.

  587. J_Stillwater says:

    @aminriadh… I told you I would prove my assertions… I said I would begin right away… I have… and part of that proof for my assertions must come from muslims… because they are the experts on these issues… I don't want to later be accused of using my opinions, etc.

    So, I have made a statement about muhammad… and I am in the process of closing all possible gaps of exit in my very methodical presentation… one of those gaps of exit you have helped me close… and I thank you for that… Think of it like I'm moving a group of people along a corridor that has customarily had lots of doors on the sides of the hallway…. where people have been able to slip out un-noticed… well… I am in the process of sealing off those doors… I think it is a good practice if you plan to actually prove an important point to someone who's self preservation depends on there being doors through which they have been know to slip….

    Here's why I have asked the question about the ten commandments…

    "He has laid down for you as religion that with which he charged Noah and that which we have revealed to thee, and that with which we charged Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Perform the religion and scatter not regarding it" (Sura al-Shura 42:14)

    I think you can see from the above, why I would ask the question about the ten commandments…. I just want to make sure the qur'an isn't telling muslims to follow the ten commandments… that's why I asked you the question… as you can see… this is directly related to my outline…

    J Stillwater

  588. aminriadh says:

    "
    If Muslims had any sense they should love Dr. Pipes. He provides the best alibi for those Muslims who want to deceive the West with the mask of moderate Islam.
    "

    One day – Spencer will also kick in the goolies.

    Geller is just mad. Her support IS a death wish.

  589. aminriadh says:

    Suffer as he does! He actually has NOT managed to turn a buck.

    The book failed.

    He is pinning HOPES on a movie!

    Hence he sold his soul to . . . . the likes of Spencer.

  590. aminriadh says:

    "I don't know who you are talking about, but anyone who does not like my method does not understand Islam and is actually helping the enemy"

    Doh!

    Check out the EGO!

    – – –

    "If you are talking about types like Zuhdi Jasser, Holland Tylor or Daniel Pipes, it was I who denounced their farce first. "

    THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU IMPLIED OR SAID EARLIER!

    – – –

    "This is a war and the first rule of the war is to know your enemy. Anyone who diverts the attention of the people away from Islam is not part of our movement and we must not recognize them and keep our distinction from them. Anyone who wants to eradicate Islam through non-violent means, i.e. through education