Ali Sina Debates Farida Majid, a Self-proclaimed Secularist Modernist Muslim,

Ali Sina Debates Farida Majid, a Self-proclaimed Secularist Modernist Muslim,

This is a response to a Bengali lady who defends Islam while claiming to be working for the secularization of her country. I sent a copy of that to my freethinking Bengali friends and one of them decided to publish it in the NFB.

 

20 May 2001

Dear Farida Majid,

I published the images of the Prophet in my website, which according to the Sunnis is an outrageous blasphemy. But I said that those Iranians who painted them did so out of love and devotion. In reaction to that you were kind enough to write: “It is true that the painters of these Persian pictures were not blasphemous. In fact the beauty of these pictures emanates from the innocent piety that the painters had in their heart. By the way it is the first time Ali Sina said something that exposed that he has, hidden somewhere beneath his hardened heart, another heart softer and more humane.”

Let me thank you for seeing my softer heart and I assure you that I have only one heart. I am sorry that what I write about Islam is not to your liking. However, if you pay closer attention you’ll also see that all I write is out of love. There is not a grain of malice in me and I have no ulterior motives. Of course you can accuse me of being completely misguided. This I admit is possible, for people could be very wrong and still very sincere. In fact most people fall within this category. The majority of people; SINCERELY believe in their twisted and misguided ways, do harm and perpetrate crimes all in the name of the truth, in good faith and clear conscience. How can I be sure that I am not one of them? Of course since I am aware of this possibility, I do not do crimes, i.e. I do not kill people, persecute them or harm them in any shape or form to impose my version of the truth. I am also open and waiting for someone to come and guide me to a better way. And I say that also with sincerity.

However, since such person has not yet shown up and those who have tried have either given up too soon or ended up insulting me and even some challenged me to curse each other to determine who tells the truth (This was the habit of the Prophet Q.3:61. I don’t like cursing people) I have not seen a better way yet. Nevertheless, if anyone can prove that what I say is absurd, I will not hesitate to change my position at once and become his/her disciple for the rest of my life or until someone else shows me yet an even better way.

Your recounting of your visit to Iran made me feel very nostalgic and believe me my eyes swelled with tears. These days I feel more sentimental about my beloved motherland because she is sick, she has been taken hostage by a 12 headed evil dragon and a bunch of ruthless hooligans who are killing torturing and ripping her children like never before. Her days of glory are gone and disgrace has befallen upon her. A disgrace that has lasted for 1400 years.

Your diagnosis of what was wrong in Iran prior to the revolution and what went wrong after the revolution is right. But I beg to disagree when you accuse the Bengali freethinkers and say: “In the midst of the current political chaos in Bangladesh, Islam-bashing is a dangerous game”. In my view any recognition of Islam as a legitimate religion is automatically endorsing its inherent violence. The inherent violence of Islam is not a matter of opinion. It’s clear that the whole Quran is a message of hate, of killing the unbelievers, of intolerance, of mind control, of misogyny, of women abuse and of war. There is no way that any person with an unbiased mind could read those hate laden, provocative verses of Quran and call that book “a book of peace.” If you are in any doubt please look at this link and this is just a sample.

So, when a peace loving intellectual like you professes Islam and recommends it, those who listen to you and value your judgment,  read the Quran and get their instructions from there and not from you. Therefore, if they follow those instructions and act accordingly with violence and brutality they are not to be blamed; you are the culprit. You told them that the Quran is the words of God and the Quran tells them to hate and kill. You don’t have to be a brain surgeon to join the dots. In my article Who Feeds Fundamentalism, I spoke about this and also quoted a report from Time Magazine of Singapore that proves my point. That report recounts the story of an educated woman from a nice Muslim family who turns a terrorist, throwing colored dye in the faces of women not wearing hijab, encourages her husband to take other wives and raises her sons with the love of gun, hoping to convert them into terrorists. Why? Because she read a book about some Western women who had accepted Islam! That is all the incentive that she needed to become a terrorist.

Dear friend, please understand that Islam is not like Christianity, Zoroastrianism or any other religion. Islam is a religion that teaches hate. Hate is the message of Islam. Hate is the essence of Islam. Every other thing in Islam, all its rituals and dogmas gear you for this ultimate objective, which is hate.

Until you deny this fact and until you try to envision a peaceful Islam that exists nowhere except in your own imagination, you will not be able to see that Islam is an obstacle to peace, democracy, civility and progress in our countries.

You were completely right is describing the errors of the Iranian intellectuals for trusting the clergy and letting the revolution to be hijacked by the fundamentalists. Well, these intellectuals made exactly the same mistake that you are doing now. They threw their lots with Muslims, thinking that eventually they will take over the government and will stir the country towards democracy and freedom. If they were wise, they would have known that this is a pipe dream. Anyone who knows Islam knows that Islam and democracy are incompatible. Trying to make Islam democratic is like trying to make a square round.  You’ll have better chance converting hyenas to vegetarianism than making Islam tolerant.

How in the world, you among all people, who have lived in the West for so many years, and have academic qualifications, and are among the intellectuals cannot see that it is you who is playing a very dangerous game by endorsing Islam; a religion that advocates hate and killings? I could have excused you for that if you were a less educated Muslim, but your lack of sensitivity in this matter, despite your diplomas and degrees is beyond me!

I would like to request that you honor me and read my article Who Feeds Fundamentalism. Then please write to me and tell me whether I am not justified to hold YOU responsible for the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, for the atrocities of the Taliban, for the brutalities of the Iranian Mullahs, for the World Trade Center bombing and for the blowing up the buses of the foreign tourists in Egypt. Indeed, I do not hold those brainwashed fundamentalists who commit these crimes responsible! They are ignorant. They are brainwashed. They are themselves victims. The responsibility of their atrocities, stupidities and crimes falls directly on YOUR shoulders. You are the one who tells them that Islam is a good thing. You are the one who is upholding that hatemongering book and calling it a divine revelation. And you have a PhD. You are educated and a respected intellectual. The ignorant and uneducated masses of Muslims look up to you. They trust you and they trust your judgment. They assume that since you have been to the West and earned a degree, you must know what you are saying. If you tell them that Quran is a book from God, then it must be so.  If you assure them that it is scientific, they believe it. If you tell them that it is a miracle, they don’t question your judgment. Those ignorant uneducated masses look up to you to tell them what is right. They take their confirmation from you. But you tell them to get their instructions from the Quran; that very backward and primitive book that teaches them to hate, to kill, to tyrannize and to violate the human rights, because God wants them to be harsh with the unbelievers, be oppressive with women and be hateful towards all non-Muslims.

Dear friend, you cannot wash your hands of your responsibilities. Please do not assume that I am exaggerating when I call you responsible. I really hold you responsible for the deaths perpetrated in the hands of Islamic fundamentalists and I demand that you stop supporting terrorism. By vying for Islam you are vying for terrorism even if you give lip service to peace. I plead with you to withdraw your support of Islam, this doctrine of hate. Let it die. Let us kill it together, for it is either it or humanity.

Islam is like Nazism. Both these doctrines preach hate. One stands for the supremacy of a race and the other of a religion. In essence they both believe in the same precepts. They both advance war. They both are divisive and sectarian. They were both born out of the mind of a charismatic, but narcissistic megalomaniac madman. How would you qualify the intellectual Nazi who upholds that doctrine of hate and calls it “teachings of love”? How would you define someone who defends Nazism, spends her time and money promoting it? Whether this person is genuine in her belief that Nazism is a doctrine of peace or not is irrelevant. The fact is that her support of Nazism makes her culprit of all the crimes perpetuated by the Nazis. She becomes responsible, even if she has never killed anyone personally and has never wished the death of anyone. She is supporting a doctrine and a philosophy that promotes hate and murder and that is what matters.

Now, you my friend are not much different. You are supporting Islam and that makes you culprit of all the crimes that Muslims commit, inspired by their holy book. You tell them that Islam is a good religion and the Quran is a good book. But the Quran teaches them to kill the unbelievers, to view the non-Muslims as najis (impure) to beat their wives, to hold women in contempt and call them deficient in intelligence, to wage war against the non-Muslims, not befriend the Christians and the Jews and to live in constant hate, isolation and distrust of others. How can you look yourself in the mirror? Doesn’t your conscience bother you?  Don’t you feel guilty of misleading people and encouraging them to remain in their ignorance?

Am I wrong? Is not Islam all the above? Then prove it to me. I will accept if you can really show me that Islam teaches love, unity, brotherhood of all humankind, equality of rights between men and women and is a religion of peace. But if all the evidence point to the contrary please don’t try to fool yourself and don’t lie about it.

Hereby, I give you my solemn pledge, to denounce “Islam-bashing” (as you call it) and become a Muslim fighting for all Islamic ideals, if you prove that Islam is a religion of peace, of love and of unity of all mankind. Can you make the same honest pledge with courage that if I show you Islam is not what you think it is you will leave it? Would you leave Islam if I prove that it is the cause of backwardness, strife and bigotry? Would you still call yourself a Muslim if I bring the evidence that Islam is a doctrine of hate, intolerance and war? This is a challenge. Will you accept it? Are you willing to scrutinize the claims of Muhammad with fairness and open mind?

We live only once. Let us not waste this precious life in the chasing a mirage. By the mercy of God, Heaven or Universe (whatever you want to call it) you and I have been given the privilege to influence many lives. This privilege entails responsibility. People like us build this world and shape the human destiny. Can you afford to neglect your responsibility? Shouldn’t we question what has been given to us in our childhood as fact, which we accepted trustingly, may not be so? I think we should. I think we have to stop and see where we are going before going further. We might be heading towards a deadly precipice and we may be bringing upon ourselves calamities of incalculable magnitude. Let us pause. Let us think, before we take one more step.

With warmest regards

Your “softhearted” friend

 

Ali Sina

 

26 May 2001

Dear brother Ali Sina,

I am glad you’ve written to me directly. It is also pleasing to me that we are talking of love in our hearts. Without love there cannot be any genuine commitment to the common humanity, to the world we live in, or to justice in the society.

Today, my heart is heavy with anxiety for my aging father who has become so frail that I may have to drop everything and fly to Bangladesh. I should tell you that my father, an engineer, considered himself ‘a man of science’ all his life and brought up his two daughters without any religious education. I am not a practicing Muslim, though I’m not quite the aetheist that my father is.

Therefore, I’m sorry, I cannot take up the challenge you  threw at me. Also, I’m not exactly in the business of defending or eulogizing Islam. There are others who do it regularly. As a scholar I believe my duty is to do the analytical thinking, i.e. asking the right questions and then finding the answers to the best of my abilities.

Because of my culturally eclectic upbringing and my own worldwide travels, I have learned to respect all people of all background, including their religion. A religion is, by definition, a cultural artifice. Much intellect, emotion and imagination are invested in fashioning this cultural artifice. That is why I like studying religion along with politics, history and literature. I have no right to insult a religion if I claim to be a member in the family of mankind. To single out one religion for the purpose of insulting it is the most illogical act and follows neither the matter of principles nor the laws of civility. When crimes are committed in the name of a religion, I would rather analyze the conditions, the political, historical and social backgrounds of that crime and its perpetrators, than blankly blame the religion.

Such analysis requires knowledge — a lot of knowledge. In today’s complex world every event is globally connected. Hence limited or biased knowledge is not sufficient for in-depth analysis that can be of any use to the community. Insulting a religion blatantly exposes the basic ignorance of those who indulge in the incivility.

I understand the pain you feel, Ali Sina, about your motherland, which is why I wanted to share with you my fond memories of my visit to Iran. My hope is that these dark days will pass –soon– and there will be another dawn.

About that Kermanshahi song, the Afghani people know that folksong very well, perhaps because Kermanshah is closer to the border of Afghanistan.

Please wish my country well, because like the Iranians, and like ordinary people everywhere, the Bengali Muslims are secular

people, especially since we have been a multireligious country for more than nine hundred years. The dirty politics of the Islamists are ruining the traditional culture of our country. And I too am pained as I watch our corrupt, ineffective politicians unable to check the tide of this dirty Islamist politics.

With all my best,

Farida Majid.

 

27 May 2001

Dear Sister Farida.

I am so pleased to see that you are not upset with me for being harsh on Islam and still call me brother. It is an honor for me.

I am sorry to hear about the delicate health of your beloved father and I hope that he will recover soon and you will have your peace of mind back. I am also impressed to learn that your father is a freethinker. My family was religious and I was raised as believer. In fact I was the most religious person in all my extended family (cousins and second cousins). I was known as akhoond Ali (mulla Ali) when I was a freshman in high school because I always talked about religious stuff. But of course my Islam was not the real Islam. I had made it up in my mind based on how I wanted it to be. However, my grandfather was a freethinker of a sort. He was a philosopher and a mystic. Though I never saw him, it pleases me to know that I am taking the path trodden by him. It is like carrying his torch and I hope I am taking it farther.

You said that you are not a practicing Muslim though you are not as atheist as your father.

Well, let me tell you that I am also not an atheist in the strict sense of the world. Of course I am not a theist either. That is to say that my views of this universe are not materialistic. I believe in a reality permeating everything and I call that reality the Single Principle.

As for the challenge, actually I did not want it to sound confrontational. In a debate, the one who learns most is the winner. It is with this spirit that I start my debates.

You wrote, “As a scholar I believe my duty is to do the analytical thinking, i.e. asking the right questions and then finding the answers to the best of my abilities”.

I salute you for it. As a student this is also my objective. If you don’t want to be an apologist of Islam, I understand. But because of your noble thoughts expressed above, I think it become imperative for both of us to ask the right questions and help each other find the best answers.

In my opinion, asking whether Islam is the source of the backwardness and human right abuses in our countries is a very important question. This is the question we never had the chance to ask. But now that we can ask such questions and not fear execution, I think it is high time we ask ourselves for the first time: Is Islam true? Does it help our people to progress intellectually, morally, spiritually, scientifically, politically, culturally and economically? Is Islam really the culprit for the social unrest, wars and upheavals in our countries? Was Islam responsible for the splitting of the mighty India in three feuding nations and the death of millions of innocent people? Is Islam responsible for the mayhem in Afghanistan, the chaos in Iran, the commotion in Kashmir, the turmoil in Philippines, the pandemonium in Palestine, the anarchy in Algeria, the human right abuses in Egypt, the honor killings in Pakistan, and the brutalities in Saudi Arabia?

Well, the answer to all those questions could be no. Islam may come out completely unblemished after questioning. But we shall never know if we don’t ask. If you are certain that Islam is innocent, then there should be no harm enlightening those who have these doubts. Why not confront the critics and respond to their concerns? Why attack them? Why assassinate their character? Why imprison, and kill them?

You wrote that you have no right to insult religion and added “To single out one religion for the purpose of insulting it is the most illogical act and follows neither the matter of principles nor the laws of civility.” I agree with you completely. No one should insult the religion of others, demean its follower, or god forbid, coerce them to abandon their faith. This practice is uncivilized, absolutely unacceptable and must be reprimanded. That is precisely why I want to eradicated Islam. Islam insults the religion of others. The Muhammad himself taunted the religions of the Quraish so much that they went to Abu Talib, Muhammad’s aging uncle, and complained:

This Nephew of thine hath spoken opprobriously of our gods and our religion: and hath abused us as fools, and given out that our forefathers were all astray. Now, avenge us thyself of our adversary; or, (seeing that thou art in the same case with ourselves,) leave him to its that we may take our satisfaction.” [Muir, v. 2, p. 162]

Muhammad did not stop there. He invaded Mecca and in an act of sacrilege destroyed their gods. The Taliban were following the example of their prophet when they destroyed the sculptures of Buddha in Bamyan. I have a collection of verses of the Quran. Please go through some of those verses and you’ll see how Muhammad violated the noble principles you are upholding and why Muslims following those teachings have become the number one violators of human rights. We, the freethinkers, don’t Insult Islam. I have read many excellent dissertations by great Bengali freethinkers about Islam. I have adorned my site with some of those articles. I found all of them scholarly written and logically expressed. I have never come across one article where the writer insulted Islam or its founder. On the other hand Muhammad insulted everyone. He cursed them and he fought them, he killed them, he banished them, he enslaved them and he told that they would go to Hell. Muhammad did more than insulting. He abused people who did not believe in his religion. Muslims are doing the same. The Taliban’s decree that Hindus in Afghanistan should wear a badge is nothing new in Islam. Dhimies have always been required to distinguish themselves in Islamic countries so in a rainy day they don’t defile (najis) a Muslim by letting a drop of rain, fall from them on the latter.

We have to stop this abuse and this insult. Islam teaches discrimination; Islam teaches hate; Islam insults and abuses people of other faiths. As a humanist you want to stop that. If you don’t approve insulting people’s religion, you must take our side and fight against any doctrine that does.

You wrote; “When crimes are committed in the name of a religion, I would rather analyze the conditions, the political, historical and social backgrounds of that crime and its perpetrators, than blankly blame the religion.”

As an educated person you know that this is not a scientific method. Why should you presume that everything else could be responsible and rule the religion out? Why would you put the religion out of the equation? Maybe that is the source of the problem. Maybe it’s the religion and not the political, historical or social backgrounds that is the culprit. To rule out religion is not logical. Reason dictates that you include religion among the suspects and start your investigation all over again, with an unbiased mind, free from preconceived ideas and open to accept the results whatever they may be. Could it be that Islam is responsible for the historical backwardness of Islamic nations? Does Islam influence the social and political milieu of Muslim countries? How can we exclude it from such important analysis?

You wrote; “Such analysis requires knowledge — a lot of knowledge. In today’s complex world every event is globally connected. Hence limited or biased knowledge is not sufficient for in-depth analysis that can be of any use to the community.”

Of course it requires knowledge. Knowledge is the best antidote to ignorance. Despite the fact that I agree with you that we need knowledge and the more the better, to verify the truth or falsehood of a religion, and its usefulness for the society, you don’t need to have a lot of knowledge. Religions have become too complex. So many people have written so many things about them and so many philosophies, schools of thoughts and institutions have been created around them that the task seems to be daunting. In reality, it is not. All we need is read their scriptures. Anyone who reads the Bible or the Quran with an open mind and without prejudice can see that these books are full of errors. You don’t need too much knowledge to know that when Muhammad says, stars are missiles that Allah shoots at the jinns who try to eavesdrop the conversation of the Exalted Assembly, he is talking baloney. The Quran is so full of nonsense that any schoolboy can detect. The reason so many Muslims don’t see is because they don’t read it. Those who read it and stay Muslims don’t want to see it.

At the end you asked me to wish well for Bangladesh and complained about “the dirty politics of the Islamists ruining the traditional culture of your country”.

I do wish well for your country with the bottom of my hearth, and that is why I plead with you to join me and the freethinkers of your country, and find the answer about those important questions that affect the wellbeing of your country. Ask about the effect of Islam on Bangladesh and its people, their culture, their civility, their productivity, their priorities, etc. Does Islam make people more moral? Is Islam ethical? Does Islam foster the unity of family? Does Islam stand for gender equality? Does Islam advance national unity by giving to all its citizens the same rights and privileges irrespective of their faith? Does Islam promote science? Does it cultivate culture and advancement of human mind? Does it encourage philosophy and arts? Does Islam promote democracy, freedom of expression and freedom of thoughts? Has Islam been a positive influence in your country? Did really Islam benefit Bangladesh? These are important questions. Why not ask them? Ponder upon them, open this dialogue and listen to those who disagree with you. Then you are ready to make up your mind with knowledge.

Not many people are emotionally ready or intellectually disposed to ask pressing questions such as these. Finding the answer to these questions may be heartbreaking. Truth will set you free but it isn’t easy to swallow. If you are not ready to face the truth, stay out of this debate. Don’t ask questions that may shatter your biased beliefs and your cherished faith. Keep your head under the sand and pretend nothing is wrong. Freethinking is not for everyone. It requires strength of character. It requires devotion to truth and an uncluttered mind to accept it, even if it goes against what we believe. If you don’t see yourself ready, don’t let people force you into it. But please don’t stand in the way of those who are ready to face it. Don’t be an obstacle in the way of brave men and women of your great land who have risen valiantly to slaughter the beast of Islam that is sucking the blood of your nation. Don’t taunt them; don’t belittle them; don’t blemish their character if you cannot respond to their logical arguments.

Define your position clearly. You either believe in Islam or you don’t. You are either pregnant or you are not. You cannot sit on the fence saying I am a not practicing Muslim. What do you mean by not practicing Muslim? Don’t you believe that Islam is the religion of God? If you do, why you don’t practice it? Why you don’t wear a veil? Why you don’t allow your husband to marry more wives? Why you don’t obey him and instead prefer the infidel’s way of equality? Why would you take him to the court if he beats you, despite the fact that Allah gives him this right? Why you demand equal pay when you know that you are deficient in intelligence? (This is what Muhammad said). If Islam is good why you don’t follow it? But if it isn’t why you prescribe it for others? Why you think the poor women in the villages of Bangladesh should be oppressed by the inhumane Sharia law that you don’t want to follow?  To say to the wronged and uneducated women of your country that Islam is good for you while you don’t like it for yourself is hypocrisy. This is very unethical.

Once more, let me plead with you humbly, and beg you to join us in this holy crusade. This task is so sacred, the rewards are so immense, the field is so vast, and the workers are so few that we cannot afford not having you on our side. Please join the forces of light. Please join the freethinkers of your country. Please fight the darkness of bigotry and religious hate. Please help the masses of people in Bangladesh realize that their forefathers made a mistake, or better said: were forced to make this mistake. Be a heroine.  Be a pioneer. Be part of the solution. Let future generations remember you with pride. But if you cannot, if you don’t see that stamina and that strength of character in yourself, please don’t stand in the way of heroes. If you don’t want to be part of the solution, don’t be part of the problem.

Leaving a religion you have grown up with is not easy. Religion is addictive. I should know. I have been there. You go through stages of denial, bewilderment, shame, shock, guilt, frustration, and anger, sometimes all of that at the same time. But the last stage is enlightenment and freedom. The result is great, but the process is painful. Believe me; once you are out of it, you know that it was worth it.

With my best wishes,

Your brother

Ali

 

P.S.

I posted a link to this page in Mr. Tabatabaie’s site. Mr. He removed it. This should be enough as evidence how confident is he about his position.   Nothing more could we expect from a Muslims. Muslims are strong when it comes to violence but very cowardly when it comes to logics and arguments.

Spread The Word! Share it:

This article has 74 comments

  1. Bangladeshis are the worst kind of unthankful people. Hindus which fought for them when there women were being raped and men persecuted are today killing hindus and spreading hatred towards india( i have seen them supporting pakistan in an india pak cricket match and otherwise also)
    This makes my belief in Taqqua or whatever Muhammed called it. is still very much a part of each muslim.

    MORAL OF THE COMMENT " POST IT IN YOUR REPLIES TO THIS COMMENT"

  2. what do you mean by west of india. just use the word pakistan, west of india is rajasthan ,gujarat etc. and are very peaceful and tolerant with no religious discrimination as practiced in bangladesh

  3. Duratma Gandhi
    Are you aware that the owner of East India Company was a Jew called Rothschild and gandhi and ambedkar were his stooges. So much for ahimsha that it was ok for gandhi to kill the germans in world war 2 and not the britishers. Gandhi was a jew stooge of Rothschilds.
    Punch into google"THE ROTHSCHILD CONSPIRACY" you will be amazed of what the jews did to India that never persecuted them and know about the JEWEISH Hasbara to believe anything and everything written on the net

  4. Oh not anymore. After the arrival of Dr. Zakir Naik's Peace TV, things are changing. I see more women in hijab than before. It is not an exaggeration but an accurate statistic when I say that in every class I attend at my university, there are maximum three girls without hijab (including me). I know someone who commits adultery with his girlfriend, but receives neither her phone calls nor others' on the night of Shab-e-Qadar, when he is busy praying throughout the whole night, with occasional few minutes break at a nearby tea-stall. Many moderates and liberals even support the institutionalisation pure Islamic laws in Bangladesh, privately or publicly, mainly being ignorant about its flaws. And of course my fairly modern father who wants me to lead my life boldly and proudly like a man once told me that, if women are suddenly given freedom from their restrictions, they would act like cows, who were born tied and lived their whole lives like that and given the necessary amount of food; but once freed, would eat up all the grasses in a field! Yes, the gold standard of Muslims- hypocrisy!

  5. From varna's perspective, engineers, doctors, and computer wizards ought to fall in 'business-people' category. I can give two reasons to back this argument-

    1) They use their engineering/ medical skills and computer wizardry skills primarily in for-profit business environment. IMO the only wizards who can fall into 'Brahmin' varna are those concentrating on theory.
    2) A high majority of engineers/ doctors/ computer wizards enter these professions to make tons of money and to gain higher social-status. These are clearly the attributes of business-people. Contrast this with the Brahmins of the past who made money primarily through grants and donations (thereby having little conflict of interest), and were always far less wealthy than business-people.

    Having said that, I believe that the root cause behind caste-system among Hindus is their intense desire to have higher social-status among each other. As long as Indians, especially Hindus, treat Social-Status as the highest god and stay firmly devoted to it, all kinds of evils will call India home.

  6. @hindu2011,

    No. Caste system is told in hindu scriptures but in a very different meaning. It divided people by their profession. We live in modern world and we still follow the caste system. Engineers, scientists and computer wizards are Bhramins (Developing knowledge), Politicians, Police, security people and Military people are shatriyas (Fighting and defending country), Business people are Vaishiyas (Developing economy of the country), People who do hard labor, who do field work, who build buildings are Sudras (People who do hard labor).

    In this modern world, if we miss any one of these modern caste, our society and country cannot develop. There is no problem in differentiating the people based on their profession. The real problem arises when we fail to see all these professions with EQUAL IMPORTANCE & RESPECT.

    The caste system in ancient hindu text were developed to make the society better. Now the problem is not the caste, but the people's inability to respect the profession of these four castes equally.

  7. Dear nastika,

    Before you comment something, please understand the difference between belief and devotion. In these verses, they are speaking plainly about the devotion and not "devotion to their religion". Devotion means unconditional love. Rising and fighting back against muslims (haters of devotion, unconditional love) is same as "I bend the bow for Rudra that his arrow may strike and slay the hater of devotion.I rouse and order battle for the people, and I have penetrated Earth and Heaven. "

  8. In the entire sruti texts, there is only one Vedic verse that talks about the Varna system i.e. dividing the society based on their professions. Quite like the system we follow in the 21st century? I don't see anything wrong in it. The caste system that is practiced now has nothing to do with Hinduism.

  9. As will former Christians, Hindus, and Jews will be to the Muslims, not to mention the most hypocrite of them all the atheists who accept Islam and other religions in their hundreds every day.

  10. shrek, you will not be surprised to learn that not just Hindus but many Muslims are also trying to go overseas to western countries. And the same goes for Muslims and Hindus in India too. Is anyone surpirsed at this? I don't think so. Do not kid yourself that India is much different from Pakistan or Bangladesh. To you they may be. For all the hate you have for each other you will be surprised to learn HOW MUCH ALIKE YOU ARE.

  11. @satyameva, read the history before you make such comments. The figures are all available in the public domain. Many more Bengali Muslims died compared to Bengali Hindus. Bengali Hindus were never ever 25% of the population in East Bengal (Bangladesh). It is interesting how many Hindu bigots claim that in West Bengal Muslims are now 35% of the population because Muslims from Bangladesh have moved into the bordering villages. These same bigots also claim that the Hindu population in Bangladesh have decreased significantly because many of them have moved to West Bengal. So why is it that the Muslim population has increased so significantly in both East as well as West Bengal? Can a Hindu bigot make some sense for us?

  12. Forget about pointing the finger to "those who come here" as source of your affront. There are many many of them who were BORN RIGHT THERE. Look to your left, look to your right! Look out in the street, in the market, in the schools, universities, businesses, offices, wherever – white and black and brown. They are there. So let go of your finger pointing, let go of your bigotry, because they belong to the museums as fossils of intolerance and try to live together.

  13. ofcourse you all cherry-picking on Quran bits. ROFL

    Islam is not just Quran. It's Quran, sunnah, hadith and some common sense. Guess it's not common these days. LOL

    It's ok get back to cherry-picking.

  14. Sorry but you need to know what is right or wrong. People should not take up religion if they cannot comprehend themselves what is right and what is wrong. And yes there are many things you do not have to do in this time and age. Most of them might be just cosmetically different. Then again don't forget islam was never meant to be forced down anyones throat, like any other religion! The abrahamic religions came down for the sand people and those days are long gone. Just take whatever good there is in all, atleast that's what I do. Like other books Quran also has alot of interpretations, and something are straight forward others are not.

  15. shrek, you wrote
    " ……………………It is funny that Hindus do not read Vedas, Manu Smriti and Puranas but people like zakir naik, muslims and christians are learning these scriptures by rote."

    Not quite, Shrek !

    Hindus do not read the vedas, manu smritis and puranas because the BHAGAWAD GEETA is the gist of all the knowledge contained in them ! The Geeta is without doubt the most widely read of the scriptures amongst Hindus belonging to all denominations ! And many Hindus follow the Geeta.

    Zakir Naik ("Dr Skeleton"), muslims and christians DO NOT LEARN THEM BY ROTE, much less understand and appreciate these scriptures ! They cherry-pick those bits which can be manipulated to suit their purpose. If they understood even a fraction of the wisdom of these noble scriptures, they would cease to be muslims and reject Islam !

  16. The very word "hindustan" is an insult to india. The word was given to our motherland by invading muslim persians. The real word is "Bharat". Also, there is nothing like "HINDUISM". It was just given by british as a part of divide and rule policy so as to divide india on basis of religion. Again, the correct word for so-called hindu is "Sanatan". And it is not a religion, but a way of living. You said one thing correct, that hinduism is based on principles , and i very much agree to it.

  17. ''I'm sorry for your loss. The Muslims who come here claiming Islam is peaceful are an affront to his memory.''

    Another claim against Muslims that you know for a fact ?

    Many do crimes in the name of God,land and power look what is happening in today's world and also in History of all countries

    -JSOP

  18. I'm sorry for your loss. The Muslims who come here claiming Islam is peaceful are an affront to his memory.

  19. Ask Farida Majid, when innocent bengali hindus were persecuted in bangladesh, where her isalmic logic goes. Once affluent with hindus(nearly 25% of population) is now only has 5% hindus left. where the rest of hindus gone. butchered in the name of almighty allah?? and she says bangladesh is secular. this not the line sheikh mujih wanted to free his motherland. i myself is a hindu refugee from bangladesh now living in india. i lost my grandpaa who fought for bangladesh. but i am sure it is not that bangladesh he fought for.

  20. Right, but recognizing that Islam is a guileful enemy that must be dealt with by guarded strategies and tactics would go a long way.

    Thanks for the interview link. Now that I see it, I remember being impressed and hoping he would win. I see Jim Cooper is currently the 5th District representative, so I guess Vijay didn't win. What a shame.

  21. Here's interview: http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/interviews/a

    Deceit against islam wouldn't work in today's democratic world. Deceit against islam worked when democracy was not there and when islam was in minority in the country which it attacked.

  22. The thing is that Ali Sina was arguing to compare the fruits of Islam versus the fruits of other religions by showing that Islam produces bad people and other religions produce good people. In painting with this broad brush, he needed to use well-known examples that the public would be familiar with. Unfortunately Hindu history is not well known in the West, so Ghandi was the best example he could use to make the point to a Western reader even though he was not an ideal choice to people like yourself and MN who know the details of the situation.

    Of course the argument assumes examples of people who practice what their religions teach. A Muslim who does not follow the teachings of Islam can be a good person, and members of peaceful religions who disregard their ideologies can be violent.

  23. I would attribute meekness to culture as well. Take a newborn infant and raise it in a strong culture, and he will adopt the traits of the new culture.

  24. We need more of the types of Shivaji. The Book of Mormon also deals with the ethical dilemma of dealing with deceit with deceit and decides in it's favor:

    Alma 43:30
    30 And he also knowing that it was the only desire of the Nephites to preserve their lands, and their liberty, and their church, therefore he thought it no sin that he should defend them by stratagem; therefore, he found by his spies which course the Lamanites were to take.

    Churchill expressed similar concerns for the English gentleman having to stoop to Hitler's level to meet the violence of tanks, ships, planes and guns with the same.

    Thanks for the tip on Thoreau. I've had various units on him in Comparative Literature, but had never heard that angle. It's interesting to discover the roots of influence on the intellectual plagues of our time.

    I see a lot of Vijay Kumars in Wikipedia, but I'm not sure if any of these are the one you are referring to. What was the interaction with Ali Sina?

  25. @shrek,
    .
    Thank you so much. I agree to almost every word you've written.
    .
    MN

  26. The best and the easiest way to find out who is following his/her religion to the best degree is compare them to the idols of those religions.

    1. Mother teresa's life is a life dedicated to the service of mankind – as Jesus would do.
    2. Gandhi's life is a life dedicated to make oppressors realize their mistake only through non-violent methods like dialogues and protests even at the cost of deceiving the followers' interest and self-respect – not at all what krishna/ram did or would ever do.

    But inspite of his demerits overall he meant well and was at the frontline of struggle. That's why after his death he is revered and not criticized much.

    Actually in the world stage the only hindu who can be considered as the best example is a hindu saint whose life was dedicated to the service of mankind: Swami Vivekananda.

    3. Khomeini's life is a life dedicated to establishing islamic theocracy through any kinds of means necessary – as mohammed would do.

  27. Before making these real world comparisons, it is important to have the prime guiding principles of that religion and check how much the person adhered to those guidelines in his field of work.

    My guess is mother teresa adhered most.
    gandhi very less.
    khomeini's case doesn't arise in court because islam can be interpreted as you wish.

    People while opining about hinduism quote vedas, manu smritis and purana. Nobody points it out that inspite of vedas being the main authoritative scripture of hindus, nobody reads those scriptures except muslims, christians and jews. It is funny that hindus do not read vedas, manu smritis and puranas but people like zakir naik, muslims and christians are learning these scriptures by rote. :)

  28. From Sina's opinions, it is evident he doesn't intend to emasculate hindus or non-muslims against muslims.

    However, he makes the mistake of comparing political leaders with social activists/saints, i.e.
    A good hindu is gandhi. – political leader
    A good christian is mother teresa. – saint/social activist
    A good muslim is khomeini. – ayatollah/political leader

    Obvious reason is they are known internationally. Gandhi is not that bad if you don't go into too much details. Similarly is mother teresa. Khomeini is on a different dimension.

    The right kind of comparison should be:
    A good hindu is lord krishna/ram
    A good christian is jesus christ
    A good muslim is muhammad

    There cannot be any better comparison than these. They are the idols of followers. Real world comparisons do not do justice.

  29. @shrek,
    .
    You're most welcome.
    .
    "he was criticized only because of his evident hypocrisy" – indeed many educated & quasi-liberals too were might pissed at his painting his family members with dress, while painting hitler naked. He did claim that he painted hitler naked to insult hitler; and then goes on to pain certain hindu gods & goddesses naked. Now, if any hindu were to pain Fatima or Ayesha or Mo-making-love-to-9-yr-old-ayesha explicitly, just imagine the hell that'll break loose. Salman Rushdie, in spite of his superflous & silly works, in my opinion is a nincompoop not worth of any praise. And he certainly can't come anywhere near Ms Nasreen. This, is my personal opinion – based purely on my reading of some of the works of both these authors. May be my taste is really dumb.
    .
    What we have in India today is not democracy at all. It's around 1% of the population ruling over the remaining 99%. Irrespective of whether it's the Congress Party or the BJP or UPA or NDA, the people are the same. One group sits in the opposition while the others sit in the government. The people of india don't really have any sensible choices or options. No middle income family can afford one of it's members to win in an election. The current set-up in India is Oligarchy. And once Baa-baa-black-sheep Raul Maino is proclaimed as the Prince & the soon-to-be-King, it'll directly deteriorate into a monarchy.
    .
    MN

  30. @ John K,
    .
    That's why I am deeply agitated when Dr Sina says "a good hindu becomes Gandhi". If you look at India before this vermin gandhi, you'll see the likes of Chatrapathi Shivaji being celebrated as a hero. One of the most important reasons for honoring Shiavji was how he used islamic deceit & under-handedness in dealing with islamic barbarians. He cheated Afzal Khan into a truce & murdered him ruthlessly. He was the exponent of the current gorilla warfare & terrorist movements back in his century. He understood muslim barbarians didn't follow any proper rules of warfare & hence chose to hide in forests & attack muslim troops & commanders at every opportunity.
    .
    But, around 1900's we see gandhi & all the bravado & valor of the likes Shivaji & Bhagat Singh & S.C. Bose are lost to the cowardice & selfishness & abysmally low moral values of gandhi.
    .
    That's one of the main reasons for hindus & indians to bend over backwards bowing to islam in current day india. It is the concept of moral relativism & cultural relativism (written in depth by Thoreau & followed verbatim in his experiment with india by gandhi). It really pains me to see that someone of the stature of Dr Sina intentionally (or otherwise) inciting hindus to become moral relativists & pacifists like gandhi.
    .
    For a hindu it grows naturally to take a position that's closer to Dr. Ron Paul – individual liberty & free-market solutions (to even non-financial or non-fiscal problems). I wonder what Dr. Sina would opine about Congressman Dr. Paul (I still remember the interaction between Vijay Kumar & Ali Sina as part of the campaigning process of the former).
    .
    MN

  31. This is all true. Our leaders once understood Islam. Jefferson and Adams did after fighting the Barbary Pirates. General Pershing did after fighting the Philippine Moros.

    Citizen Warrior has an article here that possibly explains what went wrong since then:
    http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2011/05/key-to-your

  32. As we all know no amount of experience can counter islam. I doubt if any country can strongly confront islam in reality.

    Inspite of India's resilience to islamic ideology, much harm is done by america's aid to pakistan, china's support to pakistan, saudi oil funded islam expansion and america's unconditional support to saudis.

  33. Duratma_Gandhi,

    Thank you for generous words.

    Indeed it is painful to see how Tasleema had been treated as was Salman Rushdie.
    M.F. Hussain, the Indian muslim painter, is supported by GoI when every sane Indian knows he was criticized only because of his evident hypocrisy.

    Salman Rushdie is God's answer to M.F.Hussain. Poetic justice. A believing muslim Indian artist answered by another non-believing muslim Indian artist.

    I cannot comment anything on Bnei Menashe. If the mass conversion is against law in India, then it is illegal. Although there might be hypocrisy in implementation.

    Democracy allows voice of everybody to be heard. The parliament is a mirror image of the people it leads in India.

  34. This is really disenheartening because I often hoped that the US is being weak about Islam because we do not have as much experience with it. I had hoped that countries who have had Muslims longer, or who have borders with Muslim countries would be a better example of how to deal with Islam. I hope to write a book soon on the Book of Mormon as an example of how to deal with Islam. I started as an article, but it got too big.

  35. @shrek,
    .
    I just completed reading all your comments on this page. It's so apt & I'm very happy to have been blessed with an opportunity to read a Bengali Hindu's perspectives on Bengal & B'desh.
    .
    India, unfortunately, is also going in the exact same direction as Pakistan & Bangladesh. When an author like Ms. Tasleema Nasreen was threatened & forced to live in exile by radicals in B'desh, the spineless Government of India (including the pitiable West-Bengal state government) provided no help or support to Ms. Nasreen. She was able to live for a few months down in the South – but Hyderabad erupted with it's muslim majority threatening huge riots.
    .
    The epic spinelessness of the GoI in the Nasreen-issue needs to be viewed in conjunction with how the GoI reacted when some people in Mizoram had chosen to change their faith. In the latter scenario, the GoI took the issue at the highest levels & prevented the conversion of the Mizo-christians into a religion that they felt was far more in-synch with their real-world practices. Here, please check this, if & when you get some time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnei_Menashe#Controv
    .
    MN

  36. What I will say is Bangladeshis are mistaking their 'secular' culture to be a byproduct of 'islamic' culture. Farida will spend her life happily but the damage she is doing by not being an apostate from islam is what she will understand when she looks back at the earth after death and thinks what she could have contributed to humanity.

    Just like Ali Sina, I also think of Bangladesh sometimes because my entire family's ancestral roots are in Bangladesh. When Pakistan was created my grandparents had to move to India. Although some of my relatives are in Bangladesh, they have begun moving to India or Abroad. Like Indonesia, when non-muslims become minorities and extinct, educated muslims will see Bangladesh become an exact replica of Pakistan. Actually it has already started becoming one

  37. 5. Another reason why bangladesh and pakistan have different degrees of extremism is in difference of DNA (otherwise say, blood) and culture (educational, literaray, scientific, political, social etc). With respect to blood, bengalis are meeker compared to the people in norther part of Indian subcontinent.
    With respect to culture, In the field of philosophy and arts, bengalis are well known in India. The two bengali nobel laureates, rabindranath tagore (in literature) and amartya sen (in economics) can serve as a clue. Also the scientist Satyendranth Bose (Bose-Einstein condensate), Jagadish bose (parallel inventor of 'radio', which is credited to Italian Marconi) etc. Both the national anthems of India and Bangladesh is written by rabindranth tagore. The national 'song' of india is again written by a bengali, bankimchandra chattopadhyay.

    The muslim invasions on India happened from the side of current pakistan and afganistan. That's why the hindu culture and orthodoxy was not affected so much in Eastern and Southern part as it was in North.

    Therefore, you will always find more number of bengali muslim freethinkers than pakistani muslim freethinkers.

  38. 4. No hindu saints ever said any disrespectful comments to muhammad or denigrated islam as a religion. This is especially true in 'Bengal' (Bangladesh + West Bengal – the Indian bengali state) who have seen many saints in bengal like Vivekananda, Prabhupada (the founder of 'hare krishna' movement which is just like mahaprabhu's movement). Hindus go by their saints' words and not by what's written in Vedas. Muslims also used to follow these saints words. There were many muslim saints also who were 'buddhas' just like hindu saints (which is a concept not in conformity with islam). So the mass people in India never got any preaching in their life how to and why to hate others.

    But with Bangladesh getting separated from India and becoming a part of pakistan, this tradition officially ended. From 1947 (year of separation) till now the hindu population in bangladesh and pakistan have come down steeply.

  39. 3. NON-VIOLENCE 'movement' in East Bengal (currently Bangladesh) and other adjoining areas:
    It started in 16th century. It was actually a religious movement (not a political one) by the saint 'Chaitanya Mahaprabhu' who preached devotional path to god 'krishna' (similar to sufi sect of islam) and vegetarianism throughout bengal and adjoining areas. Mahaprabhu's sect teaches non-violence to humans as well as all animals. This movement influenced the area so much that even the muslims were influenced by this non-violence philosophy.

  40. Farida says: "Please wish my country well, because like the Iranians, and like ordinary people everywhere, the Bengali Muslims are secular"

    I know that bengali muslims are not like muslims found to the west of India. Because I am a bengali hindu whose ancestral roots are in Bangladesh.

    I should say what Farida says is true a lot that muslim bengalis are secular. But it has reasons.

    1. The obvious reason is bangladesh was a part of India till 1947 and therefore followed India's culture which is secular. The secular culture was born out of spiritualistic principle based religions of India, i.e. Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism etc. Converted muslims adopted a mentality in conformity with these religions.

    2. India and Bengal especially have seen a lot of spiritual saints all the time in history and that is what, the spirituality, always calmed down the tension between religious communities. The saints in India, hindu saints or muslim saints (although it goes aginst quran because you cannot be a prophet after muhammad in islam) have always been neutral about conflicts and have always played an important role in resolving the conflicts in a just way.

  41. Once scientists had said that Atom is undividable, every scientists of that period accepted that. However
    after musch research another scientist proposed that Atom is dividable, the whole world accepted it. However No one has not condemned the first scientist who said atom is undividable. Science grows ,truth keeps, blossomming. Because it is ompersonnel. No scientis ever works for or to justify one person or his findings.Muslims are foolishly trying to justify Mohammed and trying to cover up/gloss over wrongs/not suitable to present day episides of Mohammed.True Mohammed is unlettered.His teachings are conditioned by the environment available that time. No double he preaches violence against Non-muslims.Hindustan is bleeding ever since Mohammed Kori won the battle . The bleeding is kept alive by Pak terrorists Karsai in Bombay.Like science religion must be made principle oriented not Person Oriented. Xianity and Islam is person Oriented. However HINDUISM alone is principal oriented. Let us read the complete works of Swami Vivekananda, particularly his write up on " World religion". Improving moral calibre of a person is more important than anything.

  42. Please remember Hinduism is not a religion in the sense Islam /christianity is a religion.There is no church established monopoly of an Institution. It is like science always given to innovation and it is not depend on a single book. Swami Vivekananda says God is limitless so pages of true veda must be limitless.Hinduism is always ready to shed old beliefs and accept new things. Rig,atharva na veda are not authority. It must be studied against the background of its time- 7000 yrs old.
    Learn Buddha,Athi sankara,Ramanujar,Sri Bhagavad gita,Ramayana, Sri Ramakrishna,Swami Vivekanada and Mahatma Gandhiji list is endless. Hinduism lives in Sri Ramayana not in Rigveda.

  43. Please read the complete works of Swami Vivekananda .Sure you can find answers for all your doubts in it.

  44. Once scientists had said that Atom is undividable, every scientists of that period accepted that. However
    after musch research another scientist proposed that Atom is dividable, the whole world accepted it. However No one has not condemned the first scientist who said atom is undividable. Science grows ,truth keeps, blossomming. Because it is ompersonnel. No scientis ever works for or to justify one person or his findings.Muslims are foolishly trying to justify Mohammed and trying to cover up/gloss over wrongs/not suitable to present day episides of Mohammed.True Mohammed is unlettered.His teachings are conditioned by the environment available that time. No double he preaches violence against Non-muslims.Hindustan is bleeding ever since Mohammed Kori won the battle . The bleeding is kept alive by Pak terrorists Karsai in Bombay.Like science religion must be made principle oriented not Person Oriented. Xianity and Islam is person Oriented. However HINDUISM alone is principal oriented. Let us read the complete works of Swami Vivekananda, particularly his write up on " World religion". Improving moral calibre of a person is more important than anything.

  45. Indian Girl:

    The Varna System or the caste system as you call it was developed only because of the absence of a vocational school or college. Craftsmanship was passed on from the father to the son. Carpenters, Metal workers, Artisans, Scholars were not trained in some sort of a school but their homes.

    In light of the above, if I am allowing only a cook to enter my kitchen and not a toilet cleaner with the sole purpose of hygiene, then I am not wrong. I have the right to maintain the hygiene of my kitchen.

  46. @Indian Girl

    Gita is not the book for hindus, but Vedas. There is no verse in Vedas that sanction such stupidity of the caste system. As per Vedas, these are mere professions. Just like a doctors son cannot be a doctor by birth, he she has to become educated first. That was the mistake how india developed the caste system. Otherwise Vedas show that all humans are equal. All hindu scriptures EXCEPT VEDAS have been corrupted or adulterated. For more info on Vedas and caste system, I suggest you visit Agniveer.com. They are educating people on Vedas.

  47. @hindu2011
    Caste system is sanctioned in most Hindu scriptures, even in Gita..but it was in another time. Hinduism is not a prophet -based religion and anyone who calls himself/herself a Hindu has the right to chose the path to be followed. Buddha was a great man and his teachings are much more relevant today than it was 2500 years ago.
    @Duratma_Gandhi
    Bangladeshis do consider themselves Bengali and they have immense love for the language and culture. Tagore is well respected. I think under Shaikh Hasina the country is making immense progress. I just hope the hated Islamists do not come back to power.

  48. Christians do not believe there's a perfect copy of the Bible in heaven.

  49. @Nastika

    the translations of Vedas you got are very bad. Each and every mantra you quoted do not even exist in Vedas. On contrary Vedas talk of peace and love for everyone so how can they teach these awful acts which you claim to do so?

    Buddha rejected Vedas because he was unable to read them or get their proper translations. At the time of Bhudda, the evil caste system was quite prevalent all over india, and remember, the caste system is no where sanctioned in Vedas, so in other words, it was never a part of hinduism to begin with, evil hindus out of ignorance have made it up. Now, Bhudda saw all this and condemned the caste system but thot that the Vedas sanction this nonsense, so he blindly blamed the Vedas and rejected them.

  50. What is the relationship of chronicles of the lives of Hindu deities? Are the gods considered mythical, figurative, or literal beings?

  51. I understand your concern. I think Ali Sina explained it best in his article, Comparing Islam with Other Faiths:
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/letters/comp

    [quote]The Bible does not claim to be the verbatim word of God. If you read the Bible you’ll see that it is a narrative of different people, written by humans. According to the believers of the Bible the authors of that book were inspired. This is not the same as to say I have brought a textual message from God. I can watch a beautiful scene, become inspired and go home and draw it or compose a poetry describing it. I am interpreting my own experience. Of course my experience is subjective. The authors of the Bible claimed they were inspired, but in nowhere they said that any part of that book is verbatim words of God. The Bible does not say it is the exacts word of God, but a message from God.

    So if there are errors in the Bible, one can attribute them to the fallibility of those who wrote it. The enlightened Christians do not get boggled by the words, but by the mesage of the Bible. The Bible was written by about 40 individuals whose names are recorded. However, the gist of the message of all of them is the same, which is diametrically opposed to the message of the Quran.[/quote]

    You will also note that long passages in the Bible are historical passages that only record events without commentary on the relative morality of what is being reported and without invoking the name or God or claiming, "Thus saith the Lord".

  52. I meant to say "pious Christians of all denominations" in the above post.

  53. But pious Christians of denominations claim the Bible is the word of God and its texts were written by prophets or holy men as inspired by God.

  54. So it is clear that Hinduism is not a revealed religion and its scriptures like Vedas and Upanishads,etc are not from God(s) just like other religions and their scriptures and they are only man made. Otherwise, there should not be room for improvement or evolution of such religions.

  55. @nastik,u may b right in writing all this but may I clarify that Hinduism is a process towards improvement that has been going on since ages………..this is evident when you find the repudiation of vedas in the upnashids which are themselves hindu scriptures.And Buddha was himself a reformer of hinduism and not called for rejection of hinduism but of its demerits.He is a respectable and even devotional figure among Hindus.
    U have a variety of ideas in hinduism viz thesim,atheism,freethought etc.Many hindu scholars are atheists but still are hindus because IT IS A WAY OF LIFE………..Ancient Hindu scriptures glorify sati, varnas, but is is today a crime in India to adhere to these.

  56. Thank you Yousaf. I salute you for your dedication to the well-being of humanity. You already are our greatest asset, albeit an unrecognized one, just like the refugees from communism were not initially recognized for their value in the struggle.

  57. One day us former Muslims will be the biggest asset for the west. We will help you expose it from within. While trying to study and understand it and not follow it blindly, we have come to realize that the ideology that was being forced down our throats was destroying us from within by filling us with hate for others. The only good thing that came out of studying it and having lived it for all those years, we understand it better than anyone in the west.

    Not only that we have also embraced Democracy and Freedom of thought as the basis of our lives. We are also the students of Ali Sina. Never under estimate us

  58. Question to Farida:
    Why does she believe that all religions should be immune to criticism? That does not make sense since there were religions that exited that encouraged human sacrifice. As a matter of fact Islam does encourage human sacrifice when it obliges Muslims to kill and be killed in jihad.
    Farida my dear, use some common sense, that is unfortunately lacking in academia. There is a simple fact you need to understand that many academics reject NOT ALL RELIGIONS ARE EQUAL and NOT ALL IDEOLOGIES ARE EQUAL. How can intelligent people believe that Islam, which condemns apostates to death be a holy religion? Farida, get over it, stop defending the indefensible and PLEASE, try to think for yourself… let go of academic mental prison.

  59. Wanted to know Professor Farida Majid's response to Ali Sina's resonse.

  60. Farida Masjid, You should do well to remember the bloody birth of Bangladesh, formerly East Pakistan, at the hands of Muslim soldiers of Pakistan. Over 3 millions civilians were killed and over 200,000 women were raped by these beasts. Thanks to the intervention of Hindu India that the genocide stopped. India won the war with Pakistan. During the war the dirty American president threatened India, but its prime minister said " The US can send 100 aircraft carriers, We are prepared to fight." The US chickened out.
    The US had spent billions of USD to support its ally,Pakistan till today. What happened ? It had hiden Osama bin Ladin for so long.

  61. Dear Farida,
    I believe you are a blessed lady that you came across Dr. Sina. He too opened my eyes to see the world in a new way. Before I was clueless why the people in South Africa, Northern Island, Punjab (Indian) have solved their problems but not in Kashmir, Palestine, South Thailand, Mindanao Island, Nigeria etc. After I stumbled on FFI that I learned Islam was the problem and it gives the fuel to Muslims to fight relentlessly with no thought of peace and happy living. Since you are a Bangladeshi , I hope you will understand better why Bangladesh and Pakistan are struggling to exist as nations while idol worshiping Indians are progressing towards a super power state, though these three countries got their freedom from Britain on the same night 15th August 1947. I sincerely hope and fervently pray that one fine day you will come to the conclusion that Mohammad was not the perfect Prophet sent by God to save the humanity.

  62. Dr. Sina has requested the Muslims, many times in his articles, to leave Islam and to accept any other faith, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity etc., so that the Muslims will be a free people.

  63. @Maruf
    I've read some posts from Dr.Sina, and i think you miss the point;
    1. It's all about Islam and it's prophet, who spread hatred, inhuman and hostility everywhere, not about Dr.Sina going to teach ex-Islam to a new religion.
    2. Dr.Sina invite Muslims to open their eyes, to revive and release themselves from the bondage of Islam, in the human way by slapping them using their own bible and show the muslim what is wrong with them.
    3. Apostates after the escape from the bondage of Islam are human beings who are free to choose their own destiny.
    4. I think Dr.Sina also do not want to be associated with a particular religious doctrine, therefore He named his website faithfreedom. Isn't it obvious?

    I hope my little knowledge can explain a little bit to you.

  64. "Anyone who reads the Bible or the Quran with an open mind and without prejudice can see that these books are full of errors"

    The difference between the Bible and the Quran is that the Bible doesn't claim to be an inerrant text like the Quran.

  65. Hi Ma’ruf,
    I don’t mean to piss on your parade here. But is there a point in your action? You were copy-pasting the exact same thing on every article you find.
    I think everybody got your message the first time around.

  66. According to Blaise Pascal (in article http://alisina.org/what-if-god-exists/) we should believe in God. Because if we now believe that there is no God, but after death suddenly found that there is really a God, then no scope to rectify, straight looser. But If we believe in God in this life, then we will be in safe side whether there is God exists or not. So what we have to do is to find out the only true / loving God among the Gods in various religions.

    If Dr. Ali Sina was honest, suppose one of my friends called me, Maruf come out of your home, right then I will asked him where I will live at night? If he could not provide me another home than he has no right to call me come out? My friend should first manage another better home for me if he wants me to leave my current home. But Mr. Sina is not doing that he should have at first come up with a truer / lovelier God comparing to Muslim God before asking Muslims to denounce their faith. But without giving a solution he is offering a problem. This proves that Mr. Ali Sina has something hidden in his mind.

    He also suggests that to live ethically this will be enough for you. I am also agree with him in this regard.

    But who will decide the ethics meaning which is bad or which is right?

    Somebody tells, looking to a woman is bad, somebody tells looking is ok but touching is bad, somebody tells shaking and kissing is ok but adultery is bad, somebody tells everything is ok if both agree. Somebody tells Gay is very bad, some tells no it is their right. Some tells to be vegetarian is right , some tells no everything which is permitted can be eaten . Some tells bikini is perfect because it reveals the whole beauty, some tells no- woman should be modestly covered. Doctors say alcohol is harmful but it is permitted in many countries. Some says gambling is bad because it looses man financially, socially but many countries has permitted it. Some says interest is not bad for economy although it can’t resist recession, others tell that Islamic banking is less affected by the recession. A robber says robbery is good because he can earn much money with less effort and enjoy a luxurious life but the victim will say it is crime.

    For these reasons laws of every country differs each other and there is a continuous clash between pro and con.

    So the question is that who will define the good or bad or set limit. It is obviously the God, the Creator. Otherwise every right or wrong i.e. ethics becomes meaningless. So Gods presence/guidance is essential.

    So what is Dr. Sina doing, he is trying to make Muslims ex, without suggesting a more true God/religion for them. He wants to bring them out of home to under the sun, rain, storm, danger. It is inhuman. He is utilizing his brilliancy, literacy for misleading people, for the evil of the society.

    maruhafsul@yahoo.com

  67. nastika,
    I agree with your comments above.

  68. The verses from mvedas r mantras.They r revelations in form of mantras.These mantras r not instructions for u.vedas donot give u instructions.They do not say do this ,do that.They r just mantras.There is nothing for u to do anything based on these verses here..For example..Atharva Veda 2:12:6 Whoever either scorns us, O ye Maruts, or blames devotion which we now are paying.Let his own wicked deeds be fires to burn him.May Heaven consume the man who hates devotion. …This is a mantra.The person chanting this mantra is wishing for the person blaming his devotion should be burned in his own wicked desires..It is his cursing.Its a wish not a instruction.Please check the other verses also,they r just mantras,which means they r just the mantra chanting person's wish or curse.Unlike quran which gives instructions to kill disbelievers.Vedas r also written by humans.No god reveals any stuff.We know that.But vedas r different to quran.No where in vedas u will see mantras telling or instructing ppl to"do this" or "do that".

  69. I just began reading this. I'm very sure it's going to be very interesting & look forward to reading it.
    .
    Just out of curiosity – do Bangladeshis consider themselves Bengali? Do they have any respect for Rabindranath Tagore – rabindra sangeet etc? Do they employ bengali words to greet each other or to begin any auspicious / religious activity? Here in India, most people (other than in English) say Namaste – and that includes Xians too. Many Muslims too indulge in Namaste in a social scenario – of course, in their dargahs & masjids, they'd not say Namaste (obviously).
    .
    So, in social conversations, do Bangladeshis say Salamalaikkum or Namoshkar? What about that pathetic verse "Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim" – do these Bangladeshis (literally people of a country attributed to bangla) think those words are Bengali/bangla? Or are they living the greatest possible self-deceit in this world?
    .
    MN

  70. Anyone who reads the Bible or the Quran with an open mind and without prejudice can see that these books are full of errors"

    Correction…the Bible,Coran & Vedas (most sacred & authoritative hindu texts) are full of errors.Ali Sina,I bet you must be really shocked to see that the Hindu scriptures are not that different from the Koran and OT but remember there's a reason why Buddha rejected the Vedas.

    *This verse speaks of burning atheists (those who hate devotion)
    Atharva Veda 2:12:6 Whoever either scorns us, O ye Maruts, or blames devotion which we now are paying.Let his own wicked deeds be fires to burn him.May Heaven consume the man who hates devotion.

    Ath Veda 4:30:5 I bend the bow for Rudra that his arrow may strike and slay the hater of devotion.I rouse and order battle for the people, and I have penetrated Earth and Heaven.

    Slay godless foes
    Atharva Veda 11:2:23 Homage be paid him with ten Sakvari verses who stands established in the air's mid-region, slaying non-sacrificing God-despisers!

    Rg Veda 3:24:1. AGNI, subdue opposing bands, and drive our enemies away.Invincible,slay godless foes: give splendour to the worshipper.

  71. I do not believe that we can convert, transform, convince in mass believers of all faiths, supernatural claims and cults into something that is secular or scientifically oriented. Most believers are in love with the object of their belief. Can we really use rational thinking to demonstrate that their beliefs are unfounded and unhealthy, even dangerous? Try to convince your daughter in love with a criminal that her beloved is a criminal with bad intentions towards her. You will need to take many risks and gather the proofs so your daughter may be able to open her eyes about the fraud of her belief. Or you may decide not to intervene hopping that she will see the truth by herself before she reaches a point of no return. Now imagine 6 billion people on Earth in love with their belief that has been passed on by their close relatives and ancestors to them for centuries! Well! Even if an alien comes to our planet and tell us with evidence that life on earth was an accident of an alien experiment, I bet you that people’s belief will not collapse. Does it mean that we have to accept the fact that rational thinking is weak with no impact? Of course, not! What you do has an impact to a certain extent within your time and context against an individual and collective feeling that is rooted from the dawn of humanity into our primitive brain. However, our perceptions are changing fast. So is our brain for the good of humanity.
    I believe that there is no god and the natural world is sufficient for the human mind to explain the unknown, the invisible and one day answer the question: where do we come from? Where are we going? Are we alone in the universe?
    Yet, I cannot be sure even with the best scientific evidence that my belief is right. But I am not in love with my belief nor obsessed by it to a level that I would consider possessing the truth against all other claims.
    When debate is possible, I mean peacefully without taking the risk of being beaten, imprisoned or targeted by brainwashed soldiers of sort, I would not hesitate to show the pertinence of my arguments, not against religions, but for the sake of a healthy exchange of ideas with a humble contribution towards enhancing knowledge and mutual understanding.
    “Knowledge is freedom, freedom from ignorance and its offspring fear; knowledge is light and liberation, knowledge that the world contains itself, and its origins, and the mind of man, from which comes more knowledge and hope of knowledge again. Dare to know: that is the motto of enlightenment”. A.C. Grayling. The Good Book. A Secular Bible.

  72. PERTAMAX!!!
    What is it with these so-called “Islamic Feminism”?
    Don’t they know that Islam and all forms of Feminism don’t match?
    Just look at the case of Muhammad-ordered killing of Umm Qirfa.

Leave a Reply