Anfal in Islam

Anfal in Islam

 

Can you explain the concept of “Anfal” in Islam? There is a sura in the Quran dedicated to Anfal. Please define this word.

Anfal means spoils of war غنایم. For thousands of years, primitive tribes, raided and plundered each other. The more savage societies also looted the wives and children of the vanquished. Women were often raped and children were enslaved and sold.

Arabs were a bunch of savages. Raiding and looting was for them a way of life.  Four months during the year they abstained from fighting, when war was regarded a sacrilege. These were called sacred months, الْأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ.  You can find a mention of them in the Quran 9:5. Outside these months they were free to raid and loot one another.  There was no central power to punish the aggressors.

When the prophet of Islam migrated to Medina, his followers who migrated with him were mostly slaves and disaffected youths. They were destitute. Muhammad continued the tradition of Arabs and told them to steal for their sustenance. The morality of Arabs was so low that no one objected to a prophet of God engaging in thuggery. On the contrary, they attributed his successes to divine assistance.

Primitive people think might is right. You can often find this kind of primitive thinking in children.  I was about 10 when our teacher in one of the small towns in Iran said he would take us for swimming. We were excited and looked forward to it. When the promised day came, we had brought our shorts and towels and were getting ready for to a day of fun. There were a couple of students in our class who were Baha’i or Jew. Our teacher said they cannot come. He said they are najis and hence they can’t go in the same pool with Muslims. I can’t forget the disappointment and sadness of those kids. That was a clear injustice, but as a ten years old child I was unable to see this as such.  I felt sad but I thought it is the kid’s fault for not being Muslim. My sense of morality had not been evolved enough to see things clearly. I blamed the victims. In a society where everyone thinks like you, you get validation from others and your distorted thinking is confirmed.  Our thoughts must be challenged in order to evolve. This is how evolution takes place. The weak dies and the fittest, survives. Where organisms are not challenged, they don’t evolve. There are species on earth that have not evolved for hundreds of millions of years. It is because they have never been challenged. There was no need for them to evolve. When an idea is not challenged, it will not evolve.  This is the sad saga of Islam.

When Muhammad raided the caravans and the villages of the Arabs, massacred unarmed populations and plundered their belonging, enslaved their women and children, not only his followers, but also other Arabs did not see this as something utterly evil.  The more he succeeded in his raids or ghazwa as he called them, the more popular he became. His foes joined him because he was becoming powerful. Tabari says Khalid ibn Walid and Amro ibn Aas were enemies of Islam and fought against Muslims. They converted when they saw Muhammad is becoming victorious.  Arabs saw that those who converted to Islam had been enriched. All their earning came from robbery. But it was a robbery sanctioned by God. In the Arab’s primitive way of thinking that was an indication that God was behind Muhammad.

Muslims’ sense of morality has not evolved since the time of Muhammad. This primitive way of thinking of Arabs that believes might is right has spread to all Muslim countries, including to Iran and to Muslims of the Indian sub-continent who were much more evolved than the Arabs. Now we have become like them – a bunch of savages.  Our sense of justice has evaporated and our thinking has become as primitive as those of Arabs who thanks to Islam have never come out of their savagery.

The great Persian historian Mohammad ibn Jarir Tabari narrates Muhammad’s crimes in detail, describing his treacheries, robberies, rapes, assassinations and murders to the extent that the reader feels nauseated. Yet this highly learned man is unable to see that the founder of that much evil cannot be a prophet of God.

One of the greatest geniuses that ever lived was Jalaleddin Rumi. Despite all his talent, he too is incapable of seeing the man he calls his prophet was a thug.  He even believed in Muhammad’s nonsense that God transformed the Jews into pigs and monkeys when they broke the law of Sabbath.

This is what religion does to people. Smart people abdicate their intelligence when they believe. And as Voltaire says, when people believe in absurdities they can commit atrocities.

Any sane person can understand that raiding someone’s home, killing him and robbing his belonging is wrong. It does not require a lot of intelligence to understand this much. Yet amazingly, 1.5 billion Muslims, among them many educated people, are unable to see that.

Muhammad has even a sura in the Quran describing how the stolen property should be divided. Sura Anfal was written after the battle of Badr. It starts by saying, يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنْ الْأَنْفَالِ قُلْ الْأَنْفَالُ لِلَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ  “They ask you (O Muhammad) about the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger.” Here Muhammad makes the maker of the universe a partner in his crime when anyone with a brain the size of that of a cat knows that God has no use for the stolen belongings of a bunch of Arabs. All that spoil went to Muhammad. So why defile the name of God?  The real translation of this verse is, the stollen property belongs to me and myself. Muhammad did not believe in God. He used him as a tool to fool people. If he really believed in God he would not have dared to attribute so many lies to him.

An article titled, “Jihad: The Forgotten Obligation” that can be found with a Google search on several Islamic sites says:  “Provision, Under the Shade of the Spear: Narrated Ibn Umar (ra) that the Prophet (saw) said, “My livelihood is under the shade of my spear, and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated.” (Bukhari, p.408, vol.1) The virtue of the spear has been mentioned in this hadith and we have been informed that the livelihood and provision of the Prophet (saw) lies in the spear (jihaad). This is why the muhaditheen have stated that the best earning is that of war booty and it is clearly proven by this hadith that booty has been made permissible for this Ummah. Note: the term ”humiliation for the kuffar” in the hadith, means paying jizya (a small tax levied for the non-Muslim citizens – dhimmis – of the Islamic state). (Fath ul Bari, p.116, vol.2)”

The above sums up the morality of Muslims.  The hadiths say Muhammad earned his livelihood through robbery. As the result Muslim scholars and muhaditheens (collectors of hadith) have concluded that booty is permissible and the best earning is the one that comes from robbery. Today, Muslims lament that the obligation of jihad has been forgotten and that they should earn their livelihood by plundering and forcing the non-Muslims to pay jizyah.

This is how Mafia operates. In fact the Mafia owes its existence to Islam. Muslims conquered Sicily and Malta in 902 and ruled the Islands until 1061, when they were evicted following the Norman Conquest, the local gangsters moved in to fill their gap. Extorting money, in exchange for “protection,” is want Muslims practiced in south Italy. It is by understanding this connection that we can understand how the Mafia can reconcile their crime with their religiosity.

The irony is that in Islam theft is prohibited and the punishment of the thief is chopping his hand for the first offence and then amputation of other limbs for subsequent offenses.  But that is when the thief steals from a Muslim. When the victim is a non-Muslim there is no punishment. Such thefts are regulated and encouraged.

In the raid at Wadi al Qura, right after the raid of Kheibar, a stray arrow killed a slave of Muhammad. Muslims gathered around him and congratulated him for attaining the paradise. Muhammad said, “Certainly not! His cloak is even now burning on him in hell. He had stolen the cloak he is wearing from the spoil of the Muslims.” Another Muslim hearing this came forth and said “Apostle of Allah, I had no shoes and took this pair of sandal thongs from the man I killed.” Muhammad told him “Two thongs of fire will be cut for you like that.” He then explains that whatever is taken as spoil must be put in a pool and divided as Allah has ordained. One fifth belongs to Allah and his messenger ( me and myself) and the rest shall be divided among the raiders. The one with a horse gets three shares, the one on foot gets one share. Women who had come to attend the wounded get no share, but they get gifts like a stolen necklace or a stolen dress.

Do you see the irony? These two Muslims will go to hell because they stole a cloak and a pair of sandals from the spoils, but the spoil itself is lawful and the best earning.  The same sura Anfal says, فَكُلُوا مِمَّا غَنِمْتُمْ حَلَلًا طَيِّبًا “Enjoy what you took in war, lawful and pure.”(Q. 8:69) This verse indicates that maybe some of the Muslims had a cognitive dissonance and their conscience was bothering them. Muhammad revealed this verse so they can placate their conscience. How can one argue with  God? If God says killing and stealing from non-Muslims is lawful, who can question it?

This is how Muslims put their conscience aside. Once a matter is decided by God, the believer will not bring his conscience into equation. He will ignore his conscience. God knows best and it is not up to humans to question the wisdom of God.  Fortunately, most religions don’t have too many evil teachings in regards to non-believers.  But Islam has plenty of them and consequently Muslims are reduced into thugs and criminals. They are the most immoral and the most treacherous people in the world.  When it comes to doing evil, no one can match a Muslim. No one can do as much evil as a Muslim without any pang of conscience. All people do evil, but often they are troubled by it and ask their god for forgiveness. Muslims do evil and stand in prayer thanking their god for enabling them to do it.  They expect to be rewarded for it.  The Basiji thugs in Iran who raped young girls before killing them were convinced that they will be rewarded by God for their despicable  crimes. Islam reduces humans into monsters.

Islam is the religion of thieves.  Not just thieves, but also pedophiles, rapists, assassins, murderers and tyrants can find justification for their evilness in Islam. The only prohibition is that you cannot steal from your gang.  Any gangster organization has the same rule. If you are a member of Mafia and steal from your godfather you will be dealt with more severely than by any law. This does not mean that criminals are against stealing. They do it for living. But if you are a member of a criminal organization you must not steal from the gang.

Even though Muhammad prohibited Muslims stealing from the spoils before he got his lion’s share, he openly stole from his followers.  Right after Kheibar was conquered Muhammad set his eyes on Fadak, which was the most fertile land of Arabia. The population of Fadak, assessing their prospect decided to surrender. They sent a delegation to Muhammad while he was still in Kheibar telling him that they will abandon their town in exchange for their lives.  Muhammad agreed. He then offered them to stay as serf and give 50% of what they produce to him. He declared that Fadak is his personal property because Muslims did not fight there. The reason these Jews surrendered was obviously because of Muhammad’s army. Without that army, would they have surrendered to one man?  He took 20% of every plunder, without ever fighting personally or putting his life in danger. But he kept the entire wealth of Fadak and Bani Nadir to himself, because the populations of these towns surrendered without a fight.  It is not that his followers were as dumb as not to notice, but they were afraid to question him. He did as he pleased and no one dared to argue with him, because arguing with him was as arguing with God.  That is what prevents Muslims from questioning Islam today.

Every Iranian must learn about Fadak. This little town has played a crucial role in the destiny of our country. After the death of Muhammad, Fatima, his only surviving daughter, claimed that Fadak should be her inheritance because it was the private property of her father. Abu Bakr, who had become the caliph elected by everyone including Ali, Fatima’s husband, said that the Prophet did not have private properties and whatever he owned should go to baitul mal (public treasury).  Muhammad also had several wives, including Aisha and Hafsa, daughters of Abu Bakr and Omar, and a grandson by his other daughter Zeinab, who should have been included as inheritors, in case the property were to be given to his kin. Hence, even if Fadak were Muhammad’s private estate, the claim of Fatima was unfounded. That is where the fight between Ali and other caliphs began – over a stolen property. This is the origin of the Sunni-Shiite divide.  And we Iranians are still fighting it to this day.

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This article has 798 comments

  1. @ Uchiha Itachi

    Oh, who inspired the rishis?

    God?

    or

    They inspired them selves that God is one?

  2. Ah, so everything has a purpose. Tell me, what is the point of creating evil, defect human, natural disaster, satan, killing babies etc?

    Oh, the auntie tried to teach someone here while she run from any queries I gave, terrific. Mosquito has no use for human that’s for sure, just like any other animals that have no relevant role in human life. We live on earth to compete with each other and stay alive, just like mosquito. The very basic concept of all your belief is “staying alive no matter in what form”. This is the attribute of our body. It just happened that this insect disturbs human just like rat and snake. You just said that everything made by Allah has purpose but in here, you didn’t explain that. The one that claimed is the one that should answer.

    Auntie, you quoted that verse and didn’t know that this is irrelevant to the “purpose of creating mosquito”. Seriously, you are really the queen of irrelevant thing 2011. In that verse Allah didn’t even explain anything about purpose, he just stated what he knew about it and used it as metaphor. I did some explanation about the parable of these insects in indo site but what did you do? Nothing, Allah accused other gods for not able to create but he himself didn’t prove it. It’s just childish rant.

    Ah, another verse and posed as an “answer”. Nope, that’s a problem here. The only logical approach to reach that desire is to make human “obedient” technically, no rebellion seed should be entered. Another problem is that Allah actually needed something and got angry when he didn’t get it. This is a sign of weakness, a human quality, hardly called “unique and the only one”.

    God created that for fun? Why not? It’s possible if the god is personal. You are the one who make it what way. He’s god and can do anything.

    Err, no, Allah didn’t create a huge universe. I’ve posted many errors about it in here. Try to finish it first. Don’t mix up fact with written belief. Focus, auntie, focus.

    Hm, about “cannot observe personally”, it can backfire at Allah too. He couldn’t observe it personally and had to rely on the eye of Muhammad. Easy to flip your statement, just because you can’t observe doesn’t mean it erases the possibility for fun.
    <3

  3. It is a good way of exposing your attitude. Dishonest person deserve no respect.

    Next argument? We are here to solve the problem not making list of argument while the old one is still hanging. This is a bad way to make a point.

  4. No, you are not answering the question here. I asked you about the differing content of surahs in muslim mind. It's so obvious that not all information passed to them. Why was that? Mentioning one god wouldn't solve any problem on this earth. :p

  5. Auntie, you keep asking but never answer. Try to solve the problem of bad fate in this world first and don't forget my questions and sources..

    Who introduced the concept of monotheism?

  6. Sandra is a western female name, Sanada is Japanese (of course male) family name. :p

  7. Why running from me auntie? :p

    Why not challenge my surah and various queries about Islam? Why not challenge the mistake in quran?

    You should learn your religion more. :p

  8. Right. It's just another example of Muslims making irrelevant remarks to deflect and divert attention from Islam.

  9. Occasionally is hardly comparable with null in my country or on global scale.

  10. one more thing sister. I come here for serious discussion. If you can't even take the trouble to read the articles I linked here so that you may understand the vedic concepts better, I may as well take my leave. I remember you mentioning elsewhere that " since you work with computers, you have a lot of time to spare." If this be the case, the sole purpose you come here is to annoy and confuse other readers and in general steer the discussion away from islam. If you are serious about a discussion on vedas, first study those articles and if you have questions then, post a comment anywhere on agniveer.com and I will come here. Happy diwali to you :)

  11. @ sister Ihsan:
    My answer to you also is simple. Who introduced the concept of grave worship?Can you trace that?
    * Incarnatio, polytheism are all human's own creations. A learned scholar of sanskrit can disprove concept of incarnation from ramayana and mahabharat itself. Both Krishna and Rama themselves worshipped Ishwar only and neither were they prophets. While many polytheistic cults were invented by common people as a way to understand God, many others were started by cunning people to propgate their own agenda of ruling over common gullible people, somewhat like your prophet.

    "Why didn't the Sudras deserve to know that God is One and doesn't incarnate?"

    1. You still don't know what shudras are.

    2. You dont know Law of Karma and how it works and how God manages it.

    3. You believe that since they couldnt read vedas, their purpose on earth became meaningless as you dont understand rebirth concept and purpose of creation.

    4. You dont know that not only shudras, generally kshatriyas, vaishyas too didnt know vedas in the last 500-1000 years.

    5. Most importantly,You dont know the attributes of I,shwar and soul, both eternal entities. Unless you have a grasp of this, you will continue coming up with foolish questions like this.

    6. Cunning Brahmins of a certain time period used the manu smriti, a human text, to assert in society that caste is by birth and heavy discrimination started.Even with all the mugging up of vedas, they forgot that law of karma ensures that such acts on their part will not go with a corresponding remedial result. Same for the "shudra" , he was born into an environment of suffering for his soul to learn from because of his past misdeeds, and not because of ANY RANDOM ACT on God's part.

    Now my counter question:

    You see chidren in africa suffering with starvation,disease etc on TV. Not only do they not get the message that"God doesnt incarnate/God is one, they have to suffer for no fault of theirs if you go by quran "we are created to worship him". What injustice, cruelty on part of Allah, woudnt you say? They dont get the message, they suffer in agony too.

  12. @ Uchita Itachi

    My question for you is also simple.

    Who introduced the concept of incarnation and polytheism? Can you trace that?

    And

    Why didn't the Sudras deserve to know that God is One and doesn't incarnate?

    Please leave it if you don't want to answer…..

    Thanks for your time though. ;)

  13. @ Uchiha Itachi

    "Acknowledge it when you have been shown to be wrong."

    This is clearly not a good way of arguing, pal.

    Why don't you just present your next argument. ;)

  14. Hello sister ihsan. Most of your "rebuttal" consists of smileys than any points. I can and will answer your question satisfactorily, but FIRST:
    1. Ascertain clearly whether you believe vedas are the first divine scriptures or not. Stop this subtle deception. If you start saying "your Holy vedas say this or that", you would be implying two Allahs exist, the one who created the abrahamics and the one who created vedas !! Is this what you are saying? So please state unambigously.
    2. That You have visited and studied the articles I linked you to: origin of vedas, vedas and shudras, purpose of creation in hinduism. Without having some knowledge of this, you will not be able to understand what I am saying. The answer to your question lies on those articles mostly but still I am willing to elaborate here.
    3. Acknowledge it when you have been shown to be wrong. You cant defend islam from any of the commentors here. In fact, you continue to promote the hate filled ideology and has no problem in eulogizing rasoolallah when he has been shown to be a rapist and a mrderer. Dont resort to other religions as "see this is in theirs too". Any religion should be able to hold out on its own, otherwise it is not a true religion. "I dont need to show see this is in bible so vedas are correct". When you have been shown wrong, you dont acknowledge it and simply move on as if the discussion nver happened.
    First kindly make these points clear. I know you dont have a clue to the concept of vedas and that you got that verse while typing monotheism in google, but still I am ready to continue our discussion if you agree.

  15. @ hindu2011

    "Sati was never part of hinduism. I challenge you to show me one single verse in Vedas that sanction such stupid practice."

    Why challenge me? ;)

    Why not challenge the Sudras?

    Now, they are probably the ones who really need a deeper and more careful study about their own religion to catch up with the higher castes?

    Isn't it that the truths in Vedas had long been hidden from them?

  16. continued..So yes the Torah or OT I call The Book of Remembrance has been tampered with as many books has over the centuries but YHWH knows and puts His spirit on the anointed today and He had this book written in over 2000 languages to send His message to all. With that substantiation alone is good enough for me. But from Genesis through Malachi is the Book of Remembrance and the nt I do not consider for many of the scriptures has been changed from what YHWH spoke of in the OT and in Malachi 3v6 YHWH tells us that He changes not. There is no religion mentioned at all in the OT YHWH hates all idolatry and all religions are just that idol worship for over 2000 years many religions have been used but to no avail the world is still in the state it is from them all religion is the divider of us all in my opinion if it is not said by YHWH THE FATHER THE KING and CREATOR it is idolatry to me. YHWH BLESSES.

  17. continued..So yes the Torah or OT I call The Book of Remembrance has been tampered with as many books has over the centuries but YHWH knows and puts His spirit on the anointed today and He had this book written in over 2000 languages to send His message to all. With that substantiation alone is good enough for me. But from Genesis through Malachi is the Book of Remembrance and the nt I do not consider for many of the scriptures has been changed from what YHWH spoke of in the OT and in Malachi 3v6 YHWH tells us that He changes not. There is no religion mentioned at all in the OT YHWH hates all idolatry and all religions are just that idol worship for over 2000 years many religions have been used but to no avail the world is still in the state it is from them all religion is the divider of us all in my opinion if it is not said by YHWH THE FATHER THE KING and CREATOR it is idolatry to me.This too was replaced for the letter 'j' was not in existence then until the 1700s. Another one was the word 'virgin' it was suppose to be 'almah' a veiled maiden or young maiden confirmed by most scholars because 'virgin' as we know it in Hebrew is another word altogether.

  18. continued…Israelis after 161BCE during Hebrew Israelis captivity is when the robbers took an official stand in their claim, 'look it up' but nevertheless, the so called Old Testament the Book of Remembrance was given to us from YHWH through His prophets and His last prophet until this day Malachi 3:vs. 16-18 it tells us what YHWH did for us. Did you know that everywhere that they have the word LORD or God or Lord was the name YHWH instead it was removed but was there 6800 times and also where they have the aberrated word jew was the word Israelite or Israelis? This too was replaced for the letter 'j' was not in existence then until the 1700s. Another one was the word 'virgin' it was suppose to be 'almah' a veiled maiden or young maiden confirmed by most scholars because 'virgin' as we know it in Hebrew is another word altogether.

  19. El Padrino, I am not a jew they are Edomites and our twin brother Esau, not all Edomites are complicit to this demonic reign, but a Hebrew Israelis is what I am and we are not mentioned anymore after 161BCE for we were in captivity and many of the prophets in the OT were in captivity is how you know, Daniel, his companions Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego (their slave names) Ezekiel the priest and others for our iniquities against YHWH following idolatry and other mess. The Jews then came into play around 200BCE in the Jewish Hellenistic writings of the NT around the Alexzandrian Jewish times of Tolomy Philidelpheus Roman rule in Egypt and after the last revolt from Shimon bar Kokhba a Hebrew Israelis in 132BCE trying to take a stand for Jerusalem Judah and Israel to remain with YHWH but who was defeated by the Roman Empire in 135BCE, so this is why there are wars and calamities for in Malachi 1vs.3-5, it tells us about the robbers the Maccabees who stole the land and claimed to be

  20. @ Uchiha Itachi

    Hi..

    "Lies are not of the website ihsan. Lies are of the muslim historians, the muslim preachers, and of mohammad himself. You have every reason to worry about it."

    Really? ;)

    "The four rishis in whose minds the Vedas were inspired…"

    Who inspired the rishis about God's Oneness?

    God?

    or the rishis inspired themselves?

    If God, then, was not it their task from Him to tell their companions and later generations that He is One and the only one to adore?

    You may say that you, Mr. Sina, grace and sanada can become rishis when you guys have mastered the Vedas, but the fact remains that the Vedas were NOT revealed to any of you… They were revealed to the four rishis. What you guys can do now is read and learn the Vedas and NOT becoming persons to whom the scriptures were inspired.

    Or, are you saying that your own Veda has been or will be inspired to you? If yes, what is/what will be its name? Itachi Veda? ;)

    "I know it is prohibited. This is a reply to your question, as to why incarnation is there when message is Oneness in vedas, and that quran is open for all to read about his oneness."

    Of course that can't be a good reply. The two circumstances are totally different. You are still missing my point.

    Here is why:

    Since the era of Rasulullah to this day all Muslims (even non Muslims) have been suggested to read the Quran to learn for themselves that there is only one God.

    On the contrary – in your long history – the only sources in which such message is revealed were strictly hidden from a particular group of people called the Sudras.

    Then how would these so-called 'lowest people' have known that the ideas of polytheism and incarnation are actually fables and definitely wrong?
    ;)

  21. So this is what a jew sounds like when he/she defends their sacred Old Testament/Torah…very interesting!It's 'bout time you guys showed up.

    You said:I have never seen in the Old Testament nowhere anything about jesus because it is Idolatry it is a myth and so are many other religions there is no mention of religion in Old Testament at all"

    I agree with you because my particular branch of Christianity does not include the Old Testament for obvious reasons…the OT does not record any words or actions of christians.
    And likewise the New Testament does not mention the name Yahweh/Jehovah.

  22. No, Krishna never married 16 000 women. The only truth about that story is that he rescued 16 000 women from a sinner named Nurkasur, but him marrying those 16 000 women is all a hoax. The truth is Krishna only had one wife named Rukhmini

  23. hindu2011, YHWH gave us all free will and with this He loved us so much to let us chose to do what we will or want but He also gave us the law and the sabbath and the rainbow to remind us of the time of the flood so that we know right from wrong. But again it is ours to chose and this is why He goes through those who are anointed the prophets or the servants for not many have the spirit of YHWH GOD which is the loyalty and a love that is so greatly given from the heart and YHWH GOD knows us who have this heart and uses them to help guide the rest of us towards righteousness peace and love. Jere.17:vs.9,10. For with free will many of us are vain and full of our own ways Isaiah 66:vs.1-4. YHWH was seen by Moses Exodus vs.17-23 Genesis 18 and Isaiah 6 He is real and no man could ever reach such a grandeur. Peace and YHWH I Will Be Who I Will Be BLESSES.

  24. Rahul, YHWH GOD THE KING has been seen by Moses in Exodus 33:vs.17-23 and Abraham in Genesis 18 and there are other times as well among other prophets in the Book of Remembrance the so called Old Testament of the KJV.

  25. continue.. As you have said that until they leave from the idolatry of Islam the fighting and the calamities will continue and many innocent and the young and old will die in vain. YHWH and the Law is not a religion it is All of our lives said Moses in Deut., 32:v45-47. For in the scripture Zechariah chapter 10 it was prophesied that they Palestine, Ephraim would be in the state that they are in until they turn back unto YHWH.Malachi 3v7 and do the commandments and the sabbath.

  26. continue.. As you have said that until they leave from the idolatry of Islam the fighting and the calamities will continue and many innocent and the young and old will die in vain. YHWH and the Law is not a religion it is All of our lives said Moses in Deut., 32:v45-47. For in the scripture Zechariah chapter 10 it was prophesied that they Palestine, Ephraim would be in the state that they are in and the world we all must come back to YHWH Malachi 3v7.

  27. True. Posts are full of treachery, deception, and hidden agendas. Playing the good muslim/bad muslim game in the part of "good" muslim doesn't make her any better.

  28. Atrocities by satanists occasionally make the news. What is a better indicator is the body count. Nothing can compete with Islam's 300 million or so killed in the name of Islam and fighting in the way of Allah.

    There have been some big murderers in history. I don't have the numbers handy, but I don't think even Nazism, Communism, or the Japanese occupation of China come close.

  29. Sandra, Bravo!!

  30. continue.. As you have said that until they leave from the idolatry of Islam the fighting and the calamities will continue and many innocent and the young and old will die in vain. YHWH and the Law is not a religion it is All of our lives said Moses in Deut., 32:v45-47. For in the scripture Zechariah chapter 10 it was prophesied that they Palestine, Ephraim would be in the state that they are in; but that if and when they come back unto YHWH the Law of the Commandments and do the Sabbath they will not be in turmoil any longer, but at last YHWH will deliver them in His Day of the Lord YHWH I Will Be Who I Will Be this is translated in the KJV the Old Testament as I AM THAT I AM in Exodus 3:v14, and Ephraim shall be blessed. YHWH BESS

  31. Mr. Alisina, this is to the Palestinians or I should call them 'Israel' for that is who they are and they do not know it or if they do they are trying too hard and the wrong way to let it be known. They must go through YHWH Our Righteousness Jeremiah 23v1-8 and Jeremiah 33v14-16. (KJV) in the Old Testament and although this and many other books have been tampered with the enemy Esau is very afraid of their and our Father THE KING YHWH and the resources that are blessed unto me are from YHWH through his anointed his prophet an elder. Also this is why the New Testament was fabricated because those that hate YHWH are afraid of Him and they will only go so far for they do know He is their Father EL With Us Is the Strong One.

  32. one more clarification:
    Signs in veda and bible about oneness. Height of stupidity. What then is Ali sina's site to you? Is this not a sign that your mind has been directed to this site and you are getting more and more awareness about the falseness of quran and quran a work of satan as sent by Xtian God/ Jesus/ Vedic God ( for sake of arguement) ?

  33. Hello sister Ihsan.
    "No, Sir. I don't have to worry about the so called 'lies' you are trying to refer to in the very same websites"
    Lies are not of the website ihsan. Lies are of the muslim historians, the muslim preachers, and of mohammad himself. You have every reason to worry about it.

    Time and again I have requested you to have an understanding about the origin of vedas before you comment and showed you the link for it.here again: http://agniveer.com/1553/origin-of-vedas/
    Just because you found a verse to your taste in vedas while trying to confuse other readers here, doesnt make what you are claiming right. I will explain how.
    "He has decided to send His chosen men to deliver it. The Quran recorded some and left some other undetailed. But surely Rasulullah Muhammad was the last one.
    difference 1: He chose an illiterate,barbaric,lustful person to deliver message. The four rishis in whose minds the vedas were inspired at begining of creation cycle are the four most meritorious candidates as judged by their deeds at the end of the previous creation cycle.
    difference 2: no angels intermediary.
    difference 3: Vedas are in accordance with La ilah illallah, but the minute muhammad rasool llah, or Agni-the-first-"prophet" of God comes up in prayer, it goes in direct contradiction to vedas.

    The verse you came up with: first understand the manners of vedic mantras. many Mantras are direct recommendations from Ishvar to humans, many are in the form of promise from humans to God, many are in the form of directions from scholars/Rishis to humans about how to reach God.
    So your question is arent these rishis prophets? NO. Because any learned person in the vedas becomes a scholar/rishi. If you/sina/sanada/grace/me have mastered the vedas, then we become a 'prophet'/ rishi/ scholar. And the scholar then imparts vedic teachings to other common people. Morover, there is no need as in the shahada to BELIEVE in these 'prophets'. The relationship between you and God is direct and there is no intermediary muhammad rasoolallah attached.
    "And Allah has promised in the Quran that He will continuously show His signs which I believe one of which is the more widely known fact that His Oneness can still be traced in the Veda and other Holy Book i.e the Bible."
    The magnificence of the universe alone is the sign of a God above all idols, humans, etc. managing it. No other sign is required. He does not REQUIRE to continually show signs as if to show I am here, I am here !! etc. and I am surprised as to how you are mentioning the vedas again and again to prove your quran. This is the height of deception : your holy vedas, my holy quran. First clarify as to your position whether you believe vedas to be the first revelation or not. If yes, you quran is over.
    satyavidya.org/must-read/unchangeable-vedas
    Yet again : the greatest message of quran is to acknowledge his oneness and to worship him as we are slaves him. Message of vedas is to continually shed away ignorance and gain knowledge to the point of bliss/mukti. There is a HUGE difference.
    I think I have answered your next two paras.
    "1. Indian Muslims do grave worships?"

    clearly prohibited in Islam. … "

    I know it is prohibited. This is a reply to your question, as to why incarnation is there when message is Oneness in vedas, and that quran is open for all to read about his oneness. I hope y ou get my point sister.
    "Even your Holy Veda says it's impossible for God to have an image and that He is unparalleled"
    I know perfectly well what it says. You tell me now, since you claim nothing is impossible for Allah, CAN he incarnate? and please stop this deception of my quran and your vedas. Please state unequivocally what you believe… That vedas are the first divine revelation or not.
    cheerios !!

  34. TO ARYA ANAND and ABDULLA IHSAN (WHICH means slave of AL ILLAh the MOON GOD of Meccans ) I dont belong to ISKCON as you proclaimed like the monster ,last profiteer MO. I belong in the world with noble,universal principles,values and philosophy. Ofcourse ,ISKCON is supremely noble,rational,logical with grandest philosophy, love,kindness,compassion,peace,nonviolence,vegetarianism ,simple living and high thinking,with high moral VAlues. ISKCON followers are pure,sacred,noble human beings. ISKCON is like magnet and mesmerizing if a human being wants to be perfect in all respects. But I love, adore , ISKCON and I wish to follow their philosophy – even though it requires enormous descipline,austerity,sacrifice.

  35. Mr Abdullah ihsan, you Muslims know not whom you worship at all. The reason why I said that your allah created jinn for fun is because your allah is an imperfect and evil allah who has no Godly principles and attributes in him at all. Please go and ask all your mullahs, muftis, ayatollahs the purpose and all the valid reasons why Muhammad's 'good' allah wanted to create jinn in the first place and then, we'll discuss this interesting lie further. As for the mosquito issue, you may also wish to ask all these super religious muslim clerics who love to wear long black or white robes, why the mosquitoes became deadly creatures which can transmit diseases like dengue fever, etc and then, we'll also discuss this topic further. B)

  36. There is only one Savior and one Strong One and in the Book of Remembrance which is the KJV of the Old Testament in Isaiah chapters 42 and 43 YHWH THE KING tells us that He is the only Savior and that He does not share His glory with anyone and if there is anything new that He will tell us of it through His prophet and servant Amos 3:v7. I have never seen in the Old Testament nowhere anything about jesus because it is Idolatry it is a myth and so are many other religions there is no mention of religion in Old Testament at all. According to YHWH His kingdom is coming the new thing the day of the Lord YHWH and it will be called The Lord Our Righteousness in Jeremiah 23:vs.1-8 and Jeremiah 33:vs.14-16, where He will raise His Branch of righteousness there will be no more war and wrong doing among people and all will be loved. This is no religion it is the oneness of the spirituality for all under the Law of the Commandments and the Sabbath Deut. chapters 4 and 5 to learn to do the law to prolong the good life as Moses prophesied. YHWH BESS.

  37. @ Agracean

    Everything that Allah created has a purpose.

    If I asked you why God created mosquito (in our negative approach as in why its 'activity' is only disturbing us humans by sucking our blood, leaving our skin itchy and sometimes transmitting diseases), would you be able to explain?

    "Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example – that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient
    QS 2 : 26

    To answer your question about Jinn, In the Quran, Allah says:

    "I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me."
    QS 51 : 56

    Please contemplate whom Allah has described in the Quran as the ulama:

    "Such as remember Allah, standing, sitting, and reclining, and consider the creation of the heavens andthe earth, (and say): Our Lord! Thou createdst not this in vain. Glory be to Thee! Preserve us from the doom of Fire.
    QS 3 : 191

    why do you call a creation is for fun?

    God created really huge universe while all that humans need as a place to live is only this tiny world.

    Just because you can't personally observe all of celestial bodies spread across the universe, will you also say their being created is just for fun? ;)

  38. Yes, u are right. And they are the ones who take flight when things get out of hand as in Libya in this Arab Revolution.

  39. It doesn't matter what your feeling is, it's fact. Although satanism is not good you have to judge it by fact. Wikipedia will agree with me. Have you heard satanic terrorism? Satanic radical?

  40. You said ''Simple, just calculate what Satanism has done to the world problem then compare it to Islam. I hear no terror from the follower of satanism. I hear no discrimination from it. At least, it's a lesser evil. Still, it's just a belief.''

    This comment shows what you really are.

    I will never agree with this.

    Regards Jakob

  41. Simple, just calculate what Satanism has done to the world problem then compare it to Islam. I hear no terror from the follower of satanism. I hear no discrimination from it. At least, it's a lesser evil. Still, it's just a belief.

  42. A simple lesson for this auntie:

    Imagine a programmer had succeeded creating a program just like he had desired then applied it in his purpose, could we say that this programmer had achieved his goal and adored by his program? Every step the program took was an act of adoration towards the programmer. This is the true meaning of submission, not human submission like in Islam. If someone else came and wanted to be adored by this program and was so desperate until he used threat to achieve his goal, don’t you think he is unlikely to be the one that created it?
    <3

  43. The Quran is forced to unbelievers. Read my proof about that. Read Bilal's condition, read the first blood and war, read the invasion of neighboring countries, read his letter to foreign rulers, read surah 9, read hadith etc.

    I've told you that the so called persecution of Bilal is just a tradition of the Arabs. It's very logical to expect it to happen since:

    1. Arabs were adapted to slavery and Muhammad didn't do a thing about it.

    2. Arabs at that time had already taken the insult and violence from Muhammad.

    Find the story about discrimination and expulsion too. Read how Muhammad attacked innocent tribe including Banu damra, the one that had nothing to do with him. Read how he attacked Jewish tribes without warning. Read the reason behind it in my older posts. Oh, and you owe me sources about shield's story.

  44. You wrote, “And how did the speaking person come to know that God is one if God as his Creator never in the first place taught him through His Way?”

    Simple, auntie. I thought you have more cells in your brain just to solve this problem. The very first act is to show him self in various form and proves his power, the second is to shows that there is no other gods at all, the third is to leave a proof for future generations or he can occasionally appear to human. It shouldn’t be hard for a god, should it?

    Questions arise. Why did he need human to do it? Did he need it? Why was he reluctant to show him self? He was so desperate to be known but at the same time didn’t want to show it no matter what the cost. He chose to play hide and seek and used puzzle to make human as a guinea pig. A very strange psychological behavior, don’t you agree? Unless he was a human then …

    You wrote, “clearly prohibited in Islam. Rasulullah teaches us that when we go to graveyard we should pray for the dead for Allah's forgiveness. and to remind ourselves that someday we will all become like them.”

    What Islam thinks is irrelevant to the truth, auntie. Questions arise again. Why should you pray for the dead? The dead won’t go anywhere and the reward or punishment is already decided by Allah even before it was born. Praying to the dead is futile since god had made your fate from the very start. He also didn’t need human pray. Reminding, auntie? That’s not the point. The very basic function of mortal body, including your heavenly body is actually to live, not the die. So, Allah who made it that way should now it. Afraid of death is just one of it.

    You wrote, “Even your Holy Veda says it's impossible for God to have an image and that He is unparalleled. God being born in human form surely has an image attributed to Him.

    Veda doesn’t say it like that. It’s only say one god, period. Auntie, are you sure you understand the concept of “omnipotence”? Being omnipotence is higher than being unparallel. You know, there is actually a living creature that is unparallel to others. Even human can be just one in certain field making him/her as unparallel. The very essence of “omnipotence” or should I say, has unlimited power and ability is that god can be anything yet stays the same. Sure, he can transform to any human he wants and yet stays the same as god. He can make multiple copy of himself. He can do anything. Remember, you said it yourself that the unseen is beyond your imagination. Limited one god like this is still caged in our common sense, just like we see earth as flat. Don’t you agree?

    God in Islam has human attribute, he can be angry, sad, insecure, jealous etc. Is this godly or in your words “unparallel”? He also made some “mischief” by giving Isa the attribute of god.

    You wrote, “Is not the message clear to you?”

    If we use your childish standard of not reading anything you dislike then yes, it is clear. It’s clear to the extent that it’s read according to your level. Try to finish my queries about this too. You are too afraid of me while the only one you should afraid is Allah, why? I’m a god too, eh?

    o.0

  45. Hah? A debate? Since when do you actually have a debate? A debate doesn’t involve running away and diverting topic you know.

    You wrote, “No, Sir. I don't have to worry about the so called 'lies' you are trying to refer to in the very same websites.”

    Oh, everything from you is proven to be lies anyway and I’ve proven it. That’s why you keep running away from me, Speedy Gonzalez. It’s funny to look at small timer like you who think that mere add like “so called” without any proof can actually prove your case. While I, for all this time always prove something and you can’t answer it.

    You don’t worry? Since when do you care about the truth? I already know that you can cling into blatant falsehood just to maintain your feeling.

    You wrote, “For us, one of the highest messages from God to Human is His Oneness and He has decided to send His chosen men to deliver it.”

    Wrong answer. Try to answer with objectivity and proof. This is cheap belief you have there and worse of it, you didn’t finish the errors in Quran. I’ll ask again, why did Allaj need a man to deliver a message? He should know that this wouldn’t work at all. Couldn’t he see the result of sending these men? What about my 4 comparative points? On what reason he sent Isa like that? Why “oneness” is the highest? Is he feeling insecure? Why is it one? Is it a boundary?

    You wrote, “The Quran recorded some and left some other undetailed. But surely Rasulullah Muhammad was the last one.”

    Surely your prophet had failed to be the last one since Islam is split into many sects and provided unclear messages. With it, anyone can interpret it to suit their needs. For a final plan, your god needs my advice. I’ve given you some pointers in the past about what Allah should do but you didn’t dare to answer it.

    Try to have honesty and change “recorded” into “copied from hearsay”. Remember my post about it? I did make a comparison about story of Yusuf. Don’t you read the blunder about Quran copying rabbi’s works? I know you read it.

    You wrote, “And Allah has promised in the Quran that He will continuously show His signs which I believe one of which is the more widely known fact that His Oneness can still be traced in the Veda and other Holy Book i.e the Bible. (For those who are willing to find the truth)”

    The real problem with the fanatic believer is that they never think outside the box. They never want to accept the reality that god doesn’t promise to no one since god is the ultimate being who isn’t controlled. With this mindset, it’s no wonder you keep losing your so called debate here. I ask you a very simple question: Can god lie?

    The second problem of your claim is that Allah never mentioned Veda, Hinduism, its origin or its corruption in the Quran. So, once again you are against your own religion just like the Buraq case. Bring your proof, not your mouth. Stop this association fallacy.

    The simpler conclusion is easier. Allah’s monotheism was copied from other religions. He didn’t create the patent of it. It is backed with many false old stories Muhammad had copied. The proof is in here, all you have to do is to read it.

    You wrote, “"O friends ….. adore none else but the Providence Who is Supreme Bestower of bliss……".

    One more of irrelevant answer, auntie. The verse of adoring (not clear what it means) one deity doesn’t mean that deity sends prophet. There is many ways to tell human. Prophethood is a weak system. It is prone to falsehood and confusing. You should bring verse in Veda that says “God sends human as prophet”. Can you?

    You wrote, “Please be honest to your self when you read it.”

    I turn that to you. Be honest when you see the truth, the truth about errors in Islam, your fallacy, and your cowardice. And don‘t forget, try to answer it with relevant verse. Dishonest person doesn’t have the right to say it, you know.

    You wrote, “Did the verse tell you that the speaking person was telling those already familiar with God's Existence and His worthiness to be the only One worshiped? or was he telling those who were not?”

    Can’t you read? I thought you finish your kindergarten. One god is as old as human and Islam has no patent in it. It has so many differences with Hinduism, it has no prophet hood, and last but not least, it is illogical. I did ask you to answer me about that. Do you understand logic, auntie? Do you know that this is not logical?

    <3

  46. You said ''Even Satanism is not as evil as Islam.''

    Do you really believe this Ali Sina ?

    Oh how you are terribly wrong to think this is true

    Regards Jakob

  47. Yes, don’t think you can hide from me Itachi! Now taste my power! Pffftt. Btw, you were already dead in the story. Your brother must love you.

    You wrote, “When I said authentic, I meant that it was not some site she herself made up and tryng to confuse people here but that such a group of people really exist”

    Ah, I got used with the style of Islamic authenticity here. You know, this auntie keep bragging about the hadith being authentic (with so called chain of narrations) but refused to answer my questions about it. So, it’s an “authentic” interpretation from many interpretations?

    You wrote, “they are NOT similar. Vedas and islam have too many irreconcilable differences. However, muslim preachers find out some imagined similarity to woo gullible hindus into thinking”

    Good, I’m glad you think it that way. Muslims loved to claim that monotheism from Allah is the same with Hinduism. With it, they try to convert gullible Hindus, just as you said in your first sentences, made up stories.

    I’m waiting this auntie to respond to the inexistence of Veda and Hinduism in Quran. So far, she didn’t dare to answer it.

    You wrote, “What is your question on monotheistic God? Could you please post it here?”

    A part of it exists in my discussion with John K and Agracean here and it’s long. It’s in article “Marrying a muslim man”. Just being one god doesn’t mean being the truth. Muslims must study it first before opening their mouth.

    PS: Seriously, can’t you at least do something to this auntie with your eye? Hypnotize her or something? She needs it.
    <3

  48. You wrote, “You're missing my point”

    It’s you who are missing the entire point and question including the question about Hinduism in Allah’s mind..

    You wrote, “In the case of Quran, it is Allah who will decide what is gonna happen to those not reached by the Quran, but Allah will give good rewards for everyone who pass on even only one verse.”

    Hah? What kind of answer is this? You run from my queries that deal with Allah’s authenticity and now you are using the same fallacy to prove nothing. What’s wrong, auntie? I did ask you about the time when the Quran was made and why didn’t it enter to all people’s memory? Why was the death of muslim significant to this? Why did you answer like this? It is up to him? This is just the same with “I don’t know”. Don’t give me the BS like this.

    When you say something try to bring reference coz until now you keep misquoting verses.

    Come on, my questions about this one is not answered. Try to answer it first so I throw back your hypocritical words, “Please answer…”
    :p

  49. Hey, I asked muslims so there is no point if someone else answer this. It seems that muslims are reluctant to answer my survey here. xD

  50. 1. Is porn bad?
    very bad…i was the victim. Sex not bad, but adultery minded created by porn can make us act like porn action minded is normal. We can have the mind that other peoples will like having sex with us but the truth was not, others don’t view like our view, the porn victim was blinded by porn minded.

    2. Is letting your daughter into porn bad?
    Yes…because is was like letting our beloved one into hell of the world.

    3. Is letting your daughter into infidel’s hand bad?
    No or Yes,
    Yes if she going ot convert to infidel’s.
    No if she going to convert those infidel’s into Islam.

    4. Is touching your boy/girlfriend bad?
    Yes,
    Yes because Islam can react to sex. Islam peoples never touch the smooth skin or the hard skin of others so it will be great NEW experiences and Islam peoples would like to have it as their property (a must have mind).

    5. Is kissing them bad?
    Yes, it will react to sex.

    6. Is slavery bad?
    No, because muhammed permit it.

    7. Is polygyny bad?
    No, because muhammed was polygyny too and as a Moslem’s, we had to follow our prophet, the most perfectness man on the world, yeah hell…

    8. What is bad?
    bad is something that mohammed told NO and didn’t do.
    good is something that mohammed permit YES and do it.

    good such as rape and took the slave as wives, funk the little girls, bounty spoil of war, the infidels money, rob plunder kill rape infidels is not “wrong” and will be rewarded by 72 virgin on heaven. The virgin will be tasted as a virgin and it always re-virgin again. what a lusty minded!!!

  51. Mr Abdullah ihsan, are you really that dumb? Of course, I've no denial of the presence of the spirit world and the things pertain to it. What I mean is that what's the reason and purpose for Muhammad's senseless allah to create jinns? Is it for fun?

  52. @ Agracean

    No sense?

    Tell me now… can you see substances of the air with your naked eyes?

    Why are you so arrogant and deny things that are unseen when you can't even see those substances?

    Some Islamic scholars don't even classify the jinns as the unseen but only another dimension. Yet most of us humans are not able to see them.

    The unseen is far beyond our imagination.

  53. @ Uchiha Itachi

    "The quran is forced down the throats of the non-believer whether he wishes to read or not to read."

    Another chance for me to quot part of the life of the noble African man, Bilal. Please learn something from it.

    He was by contrast tortured to LEAVE the teachings of the Quran, and not to read them.

    Also find out who Yasir family was and why they were tortured. To embrace Islam…. or to leave Islam?
    ;)

  54. @ Uchiha Itachi

    ha ha

    One of some that I do for a living relates to computer so I still have a little time to engage in the 'debate'.;)

    No, Sir. I don't have to worry about the so called 'lies' you are trying to refer to in the very same websites. ;)

    For us, one of the highest messages from God to Human is His Oneness and He has decided to send His chosen men to deliver it. The Quran recorded some and left some other undetailed. But surely Rasulullah Muhammad was the last one. And Allah has promised in the Quran that He will continuously show His signs which I believe one of which is the more widely known fact that His Oneness can still be traced in the Veda and other Holy Book i.e the Bible. (For those who are willing to find the truth)

    Many Hindus claim there is no prophet sent to tell his contemporaries about God as the only Supreme Being. But please have another look at the verse that says : "O friends ….. adore none else but the Providence Who is Supreme Bestower of bliss……".

    Please be honest to your self when you read it.

    Did the verse tell you that the speaking person was telling those already familiar with God's Existence and His worthiness to be the only One worshiped? or was he telling those who were not?

    And how did the speaking person come to know that God is one if God as his Creator never in the first place taught him through His Way?

    "1. Indian Muslims do grave worships?"

    clearly prohibited in Islam. Rasulullah teaches us that when we go to graveyard we should pray for the dead for Allah's forgiveness. and to remind ourselves that someday we will all become like them.

    "2. Allah takes birth?"

    Even your Holy Veda says it's impossible for God to have an image and that He is unparalleled. God being born in human form surely has an image attributed to Him.

    Is not the message clear to you?

  55. I thought you had gone sister. But apparently you are having the time of your life "debating" with miss grace. Note that when you link her to such a site as voice of india or voice of dharma, many islamic lies and skeletons will come tumbling down the cupboard on to here. Lies by indian muslim historians, lies by indian muslims, lies by muhammad analyzed thoroughly. You wana start using the very same websites?
    You do first one thing. Answer at least ONE question the user sanada is giving you. Defend the religion you are so proud of by at least ONE satisfactory answer. ;)

  56. Hello sanada ! ( so you found my true identity :) )

    1. how do you prove it from historical and archaelogical point of view? .. When I said authentic, I meant that it was not some site she herself made up and tryng to confuse people here but that such a group of people really exist.. refer voice of dharma website too. Unless your point is something else?
    "How do you view the similarity" ? they are NOT similar. Vedas and islam have too many irreconcilable differences. However, muslim preachers find out some imagined similarity to woo gullible hindus into thinking "vedas may have been first, but corruption blah blah latest version blah blah so accept islam, allah is great. This is their method..and there is one article on neighbouring site FFI which disproves such similarities and all.

    3. Why was Quran clueless about Hinduism? Why did he never mention this in ancient tales of his?
    Exactly my point. When he looked around him, all muhammad could see was judaism, xtianty and pagans. More than half of the then worlds population was there in India and china practising hinduism and budhism. But he didnt know, did he? :)

    Howver, there IS a saying in the hadiths about capture of hind(land). It does not mention vedas or anything, and it well may have been an addition by later people once they heard of hindustan. Check ghazwat-e-hind in google.

    4. What is your question on monotheistic God? Could you please post it here?

  57. I’m here on the behalf of the auntie of the social corporation which has a terrific vision called “show your mind but never ask me coz I’ll never answer”. To the muslim readers who love to deal with these kind of things, let me give you a survey to let others know about your mind (but not me, oh, don’t even ask me). Here it is:

    1. Is porn bad?
    2. Is letting your daughter into porn bad?
    3. Is letting your daughter into infidel’s hand bad?
    4. Is touching your boy/girlfriend bad?
    5. Is kissing them bad?
    6. Is slavery bad?
    7. Is polygyny bad?
    8. What is bad?

    Don’t forget to state your reason. Thank you for your cooperation.

  58. She did use insult in indonesian site, John. Beside, her attitude deserve no respect, in one hand we see an abuser and in other hand we see a coward. Both deserve no credit no matter he/she want it or not.. <3;)xD:D^_^

  59. Did you read my surah? Did you read the answer here? Did you do Potter challenge? Will you admit that I've shown your religion as a falsehood?

    After discovering so many weird, strange, erratic verses I know I will never think Islam is from god. Do you know association fallacy? Do you check its authenticity? Do you know that Muhammad or Allah never mention it?

  60. Come on, I'm still waiting your answer here, auntie. Is there anything concrete you can bring here? ;)

  61. Pffft, come on, auntie. Try to post relevant things here. Let’s test Islam about Hinduism. Why is Islam clueless about this religion and its origin? You surely know that no trace about Hinduism and its god/gods in Quran, hadith or sirah. Muhammad in his entire life never mentioned it, not even once. He just mentioned that Judaism is the oldest one since Abraham.

    How many times do you want to deny it? You have misquoted Islam and I’ve shown you many times that you are wrong. Are you sure you know your religion? I guess you should have no problem answering my 4 comparative points if you are sure and know it.

    Are you sure the Veda version of that is original? How do you prove it? What scientific method will you use? Care to share it, auntie? How do you prove that it has connection with Islam? One god is an old belief and common. Can I say that “polytheists” or “animists” are connected to each other just because it has the same core belief, ignoring other differences? Have I mentioned it to you about this fallacy? Remember prostration? You run from it, you know.

    Ah, you talked about Quran so let me ask you this:

    1. When was Quran born in a full book?
    2. Why there were many muslims who remembered different parts, not all and the same?
    3. Why was the death of muslims significant if everyone share the same knowledge of Quran?

    Using you opinion, don’t you think that Allah here made it like that? Don’t you think that he, as the all knowing god, create this mischief and loving it? He should know it from the start, shouldn’t he? Why was he angry over his own deed?

  62. Itachi, brother of Sasuke.

    If the site is authentic then how do you prove it from historical and archeological point of view? How do you prove the similarity with Islam? How do you view the similarity? Is the similarity includes method? One god alone can’t be sufficient because this is to common. I can say that polytheist have many similarity in many religions too. Is it a coincidence, divine or a copycat? If it’s divine then why did Allah never mention India? Why was Quran clueless about Hinduism? Why did he never mention this in ancient tales of his?

    Listen, this auntie is nothing but a coward. She failed to answer all my queries regarding Islam and its falsehood. She chose to cling to other religions hoping that the same falsehood can erase Islam’s stain. In this case, she wanted to justify her belief. But this cheap way is pathetic since I have a question about concept of god including one god that no one here can answer me. This auntie can’t, that’s for sure. It’s a question which no prophet could ever imagine.

    Why don’t you use your “eye” to this auntie?

    &lt;3

  63. Have you checked your god status on omnipotence? Have you checked what is the meaning of that word? Why couldn't he do it?

    Have you read Allah's blunder? What will you do with him? Still want to worship him? What is the point of worship anyway? does god need it? Why do you run, auntie?

  64. Have you noticed that monotheism and one god is illogical if we consider him as god? Have you checked my post regarding that? Have you checked my post about the absurdity in Allah's mind?

  65. Have you read my post about that? xD

  66. Have you checked the authenticity of the site? Have you answered my questions? Have you checked my links about Jesus? Have you checked other verses that contradicts your "goodness"? Have you read my question about monotheism?

    You don't understand anything here, auntie, I do. Come on, is there any one here who can refute me and not avoid me?

  67. Since when Quran become a book and read by many people? :p

    Your god is so weak because there is an impossibility in his ability. Pfftt… <3

  68. Veda is older than caste system.

    No one is blind here except you. You refused to answer my questions.:p

  69. Fables? Do you mean that like flat earth or folded sun and moon pr talking ant, or human like god? Any religion including Islam is contaminated by myth and fake info. Check your own Quran.

  70. Have you noticed that the sentence of "never adore nothing but god" contains a fallacy? Have you noticed that god actually doesn't need it? Have you noticed that god is already adored in logical sense?

    Key words are " does god need it since he had it already"

    Finish my questions first, auntie.

  71. Not significant, auntie. Answer my questions here.

  72. Condell is absolutely right, the muslims could not give a damn about equal rights for palestian arabs, its about establishing an islamic state and killing all the jews which they believe will bring about the "last day". If they did give a damn they would critise king hussein (for black september where thousands of palestians were killed) and saddam hussein for his genocide of the kurds and the occupation of kuwait. At the very least as much as they critise israel, of course they don`t becuse their all muslim "brothers".

  73. Mr Abudllah ihsan, please read the entire context of that verse and then, you'll understand why Jesus said that only God is good. As for the creation of jinn, please ask your Muhammad bin Abdullah to justify what kind of allah is this that has no sense at all.

  74. @ sina

    Do you and Jonathan Harrell share the computer? Or you are him?

    I noticed that the poster's name of "You should suggest that he read my book. The new edition is being translated into Tamil." has changed from yours to Jonathan Harrell.

  75. @ Agracean

    I do. and that's why I asked you to visit that side. ;)

    Please relate the verse about an invitation from a man in Veda to Adore NONE else but God to Jesus' refusal to be called good as goodness is for God alone.

  76. Since you are unable to answer all the other points, let me clear this last straw on to which you have been clutching onto.
    I believe the vedas were understood to be for "public" from 1875 or nearby, with the advent of dayanand saraswathi. He freely distributed the "sacred thread" of the brahmins among the so called shudras, taught them vedas began the movement to bring back muslims back to their dharmic faith. There must have been at least 5-6 centuries.perhaps a thousand years. in which Hinduism degraded to very low levels and many evils seeped in.I hope this clears it. Dont bring in why-shudras-were-denied until you first understand who shudras are the purpose of creation of hinduism from the articles I linked you to, so that you will be able to see how the actions of humans(brahmins-shudras) are all accountable to the law of karma and justice is never denied. I hope,sister, that you will subject this to an introspection with your own islamic teachings and see why quran fades away.

    ps: Impossiblity for him to incarnate? lol, so somethings are impossible for him, nice to know that. Cheerios, again !!

  77. @ Ichiha Utachi

    So since when did the Holy Vedas become available to public so everybody could see His Oneness and the impossibility for Him to incarnate into human?

    Since when? ;)

    Cheerios too… :)

  78. …. "but Allah will give good rewards for everyone who pass on even only one verse. " …

    So, finally, the reason why you post here! Anticipation of good rewards is why I should pass the message on. Thanks for clearing the concept.
    "In the case of Quran, it is Allah who will decide what is gonna happen to those not reached by the Quran"
    ..precisely..of what purpose was his creation of those people then? Why they didnt receive the light of quran? Why were they denied the justice of worshipping Allah when you do so every day?
    Your position on shudras is still shaky. Please visit the link I visited above, which clearly shows who shudras are, what happened during the course of time, what we can do to right such wrongs now. As to them suffering because vedas were shut to them, first understand the purpose of creation in hinduism and then comment. here : http://agniveer.com/2775/creation-hinduism/

    But I admit: even though you lost the battle long ago, you have won the war by now. The discussion has ceased to be Anfal in islam which is what you wanted right? I would have some respect for you,sister, had you been able to counter Mr.Sina's points , at least a few, of the article. Cheerios!!

  79. "Had it been available everyone in public, do you think the concept of seeing a man as God's incarnation would come into existence? "
    I have two counter questions:
    1.the quran is open to all and read by all muslims. Why then do so many muslims engage in grave worship in India? after all please excuse us hindus becuase we "couldnt" read the vedas but this is ridiculous!

    2. CAN Allah take birth as a human? I mean can he incarnate? If no, Allah is not all powerful. If yes, you can't deny the possibilty that it may have happened.

    "ADORE none else"

    There is a difference between forcing others to beleive this because quran said so as compared to arriving at a natural conclusion through discussing and analysing a concept( traitvaad vs advaita vs dvaita). The "task" of the veda is to achieve bliss with God, and for this understanding of God is necessary. and I am not talking about childish descriptions muhammad came up with which ANY fool can do so, but as to perfect REALISATION of God. Refer http://agniveer.com/2728/god-vedas-hinduism/

  80. @ Uchiha Itachi

    "However,sooner or later they, after careful introspection, will realize the loopholes in this belief and come out of it naturally."

    Cool then. ;)

    But…..

    Haven't you noticed that one of the verses I quoted starts with :"O friends…."?

    here:

    "….O friends,
    Adore NONE else but Providence
    Who is supreme bestower of bliss
    And thus thou wilt not suffer;
    Eulogise Him in congregation
    And sing songs of His glory repeatedly."

    This tells us that the speaking person has a task to deliver the message to his companions to NEVER adore other than God.

    Don't you think you or the experts of Vedas (no matter what caste they belong to) have the same task as that of the speaking person in your scriptures?

    If yes, again… why was this verse hidden from the Shudras?

    Had it been available for everyone in public, do you think the concept of seeing a man as God's incarnation would come into existence?

    The key words are:

    " Adore NONE else"

    Alright then… I'll leave the task for you and your people to address.

    Take care. ;)

  81. @ Uchiha Itachi

    "However,sooner or later they, after careful introspection, will realize the loopholes in this belief and come out of it naturally."

    Cool then. ;)

    But…..

    Haven't you noticed that one of the verses I quoted starts with :"O friends…."?

    here:

    "….O friends,
    Adore NONE else but Providence
    Who is supreme bestower of bliss
    And thus thou wilt not suffer;
    Eulogise Him in congregation
    And sing songs of His glory repeatedly."

    This tells us that the speaking person has a task to deliver the message to his companions to NEVER adore other than God.

    Don't you think you or the experts of Vedas (no matter what caste they belong to) have the same task as that of the speaking person in your scriptures?

    If yes, again… why was this verse hidden from the Shudras?

    Had it been available everyone in public, do you think the concept of seeing a man as God's incarnation would come into existence?

    The key words are:

    " Adore NONE else"

    Alright then… I'll leave the task for you and your people to address.

    Take care. ;)

  82. @ Uchica Itacha

    Hi, hello too.

    "Lets talk about missed opportunity. What is the fault of those to whom the quranic message never reached?"

    You're missing my point.

    In the case of Quran, it is Allah who will decide what is gonna happen to those not reached by the Quran, but Allah will give good rewards for everyone who pass on even only one verse.

    Now, in the case of Vedas..the opposite:

    Despite your arguments that suggest what is written about Sudras in the Vedas), fact is that the Sudras were not allowed to read them. Even death penalties for those who did.

    Why?

    Question for you:

    Since when the Vedas become available to all like they are now? and who started it?

    Please answer….. ;)

  83. @Uchiha

    very good, not only that, Zakir Naik is double trapped when he says Vedas prophecize Mohammad, and on the other side he refuses to accept Vedas to be divine, now how stupid can a person get.

    The truth is Vedas do NOT prophecize Mohammad, nor they prophecise anyone since Vedas never prophecize any future events, its all Zakirs imagination

  84. You ARE going against quran when you say vedas are original teachings. Note how dear Zakir Bhai hovers between "Vedas may or may not have been the first divine revelation" .. he is afraid to say that this is the first because its not said so in quran,but nevertheless wants to appeal to hindus, hence the may.;)
    "In Islam, the Shahabat (the rich and the poor hand in hand) would do whatever it takes to keep the Quran available" .. I repeat: The quran is forced down the throats of the non-believer whether he wishes to read or not to read. I am not justifying any act of erstwhile brahmins in not accepting so called shudras to study vedas, but the point is clear: The Law of Karma ensures that any misdeed in the act of such a brahmin is accounted for in the next birth and any shudra/person will get the "missed opportunity in the coming lives.

  85. I am unable to understand which is more funny, your posts here or your belief that you are successfully showing superiorty of islam over other religions through your posts here.
    "May Allah forgive the…about their own religion" I have answered this above. And you conveniently ignore the caste system ( anfal,anzal etc.) that is present in indian muslims.

    "What will you do then with incarnation concept? Still wanna keep up with it? " .. er..your point? I dont believe in incarnation. If you are pointing to majority hindus who do believe, let them believe so! As long as their worship doesnt affect other people, they have every right to do so. God is certainly not going to punish them for doing so. However,sooner or later they, after careful introspection, will realize the loopholes in this belief and come out of it naturally.

  86. For one thing, God having beautiful names is not an answer to Mr.Sina's query of looking for God elsewhere. Secondly, apart from his names, you conveniently ignore his other shortcomings.

  87. Islam has not been contaminated with fables.

    Islam is a fable.

    Purely Muhammad's fabrication.

  88. Hello sister Ihsan!
    When you have no understanding of :
    1. How vedas were revealed
    2, When were vedas revealed
    3.What are vedic principles
    4. How is it in direct contrast with quran

    How will you understand my reply? Did you go to the link I provided about vedas and shudras? Let me make something clear: EVERYONE is born a shudra. ALL of us have the 4 varnas in us in varying aspects. there is NO UPPER brahmin and LOWER shudra. Proof: son of shudra becoming brahmin after study and son of brahmin becoming shudra AS GIVEN in the vedas itself. Kindly go through the articles here carefully: http://agniveer.com/category/objectives/caste-sys… Loads of proof from vedas given there.

    and the Holy quran being "free to read for all" is a myth. It was SHOVED down everyone's throats from the begining, and killed for not accepting it. So we have one more point cleared. and it saddens me ( I believe you are from Indian subcontinent, and born into islamic family) how muslims assert that their ancestors gave up hinduism to escape from caste persecution and accepted light of islam when in reality these ancestors were butchered, the wives and daughters raped,villages looted, people spat upon, enslaved and sold as sex objects.Your "lower-caste" fought the muslims as vigoroously as the upper castes. muslims in majority are their descendants. Here is proof too: http://satyagni.com/5274/indian-muslims-story-of-

    "Past shudras missing such opportunity" ..unlike the one shot on earth concept of quran, we have rebirth. So called 'Brahmins' who downgraded 'Shudras' will pay for their misdeeds in next birth and so called shudras who 'missed the 'opportunity' as well as ALL of us have many births to shed away ignorance and achieve unity with God ( Bliss/mukti)

    Lets talk about missed opportunity. What is the fault of those to whom the quranic message never reached? I mean we were created to worship him according to quran, and it is the fault of Allah in not getting the message to such people lying in darkness, right? They will go to heaven all right, but their creation on earth becomes meaningless. Talk about missed opportunity.

    I am not blinded sister. You have submitted your rationality along with your will to Allah.

  89. Oh,

    That was my reply to Sina because he had asked me to look elsewhere for God and I truly have found that all other than Islam have been contaminated with fables. ;)

  90. @ Uchiha Itachi

    Ha ha ha

    No.

    Surely I am not going against the Holy Quran. On the contrary, it is the concept of incarnation that was made up against the original teachings of Vedas.

    Why?

    In Islam, the Shahabat (the rich and the poor hand in hand) would do whatever it takes to keep the Quran available for ANYONE who wants to read and learn from it, primarily about the noblest message that Allah is One and never incarnates.

    Would the higher castes have done the same thing?

    Like I said, May Allah forgive the past Sudras who certainly have missed the opportunity to learn the beauty of God's Singularity. Maybe they really wanted to, but too bad, they had been strictly prohibited. :I

  91. @ Uchiha Itachi

    Now everybody is happy since the Holy Veda is available for public. ;)

    May Allah forgive the past Sudras who have certainly missed this great opportunity to have a deeper, direct study about their own religion. :|

    You, ;) you are still alive and has witnessed what the Vedas say about God Oneness and how it is impossible for Him to incarnate.

    What will you do then with incarnation concept? Still wanna keep up with it? ;)

  92. @ Uchica Itachi

    You are not going to say that, upon its revelation, the Holy Veda was as free to read as the Holy Quran, are you?

    Or should I ask:

    Since when did the Veda become publicly available?

    Of course NOW you can say a lot about your Vedas. What about before? and what about the past Sudras missing such reading opportunity ?
    ;)

    Maybe it's you who is blinded? ;)

  93. not all books are written by human, ved and Gita is divine creations

    amit

  94. Abdullah,

    The question was not as to what is written in the Vedas which you are now calling Holy but whether I can respond to your challenge/muhammad’s challenge/his self made god Allah’s challenge of producing a surah like the quran.

    I have produced the surahs, not one but three.

    Now would you leave islam?

  95. You can invent your own religion and think up a lot of beautiful words for what you think God should be.

    That doesn't make it true. It's still your own invented religion.

    This is exactly what Muhammad did.

    It wouldn't be a bad thing, except that you are ignoring the evil in Islam and it's Sharia law.

    You are also ignoring all the documentation on Muhammad's behavior.

    I have given you this information twice. Why are you ignoring it? If you ignore it, you are as guilty as if you did it yourself:

    Muhammad is:

    a narcissist a misogynist a rapist
    a pedophile a lecher a torturer
    a mass murderer a cult leaderan assassin
    a terrorista madman a looter

    Click on each word at the site for an introduction to the evidence:

    http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/the-cha

    You can't keep ignoring this. You have to face the facts.

  96. "because of your unnecessary hatreds against Islam."

    It is necessary to hate Islam. How many more people have to die because of your jihad?

  97. I can understand not wanting credit since usury is harem :D

    I can't speak for Prithvi. She had her reasons to suspect the new user, but you would have to ask her, not me.

  98. Hi Prithvi,

    It has gotten really hard to follow the conversations now that so many people are talking. If I don't keep up on the sidebar, new comments slip by without being seen. Plus the "Jump to" button doesn't work 95% of the time, so I have to manually scan the comments for new ones, and it's easy to miss some when there so many.

    Well, the Muslim directive to smile at their faces while hating them makes it reasonable to suspect even courteous Muslims of doing something like changing user IDs to change tactics. But we have to give her the benefit of the doubt and accept her insistence that it wasn't her.

  99. @ John K

    credit?

    I am not asking for it. ;)

    But why in exchanges all of the sudden Prithvi easily concluded that I was someone else?

  100. @ Prithvi

    Did you produce the Surahs?

    "Will you leave Islam now? "

    After discovering that the Holy Veda confirms Oneness and various beautiful names of God do you think I will leave Islam?

  101. A lot of verses saying things about Allah that you want to be true do not make them true.

    You might be more accurate if you said these things about a different God.

    Afshins's Story – Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvvClFSMIzA

    Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM3VqbhVDtM

    Kamal's story – dramatized version
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gccio1vE41M

  102. Dear John,

    It seems you missed out on my earlier comment, just read my third last comment :D to Abdullah Ihsaan.
    Also check the pattern of the comments which suddenly started coming up ;)

    Cheers!

  103. You deserve credit for not being rude like some of the other Muslims who visit here, but you are stubborn in ignoring facts and sticking to a belief that is false.

  104. Hello sanada!
    The site is authentic alright, voice of india. It is started by patriotic hindus who see their religion going down the drain at the hands of marxist intellectuals cum islam cum converion crazy missionaries. However, I feel they should stick to hindi as the words used by the site is of poor taste and can at times be misleading.That article is an answer to missionaries who are working overdrive in our land to convert hindus by hook or by crook, not a proper discussion on vedas. But I am surprised she used a website like VOI, who so vociferously speaks against islam and its teachings to suport her stand here. Enter Taqqiya level 2.;) Discussion moves away from anfal and such atrocities in islam, from the blunders she made in the comment section, to errors of hinduism, to a gradual hostility between xtian and hindu commentors here ! Now she can leave from sina's website feeling good that she has not let down quran.:p
    btw here is to her similarity of quran and vedas: http://agniveer.com/3203/islam-vedas/

  105. You, your muhammad and as per muhammad his and your god, challenged humanity to produce ONE surah like in the quran.
    I (one human being) brought three surahs for you/your muhammad and his and your god.

    Now do you accept that this challenge from muhammad and as per him by his god has been answered?

    Will you leave islam now?

  106. To be sure with much of your points, but a few need to be mentioned further, I’ll hold a trifle seek the advice of my partners and possibly I’ll seek for you some suggestion soon.

  107. Ah, coming back again eh and forgetting that you are using that to me too. Auntie, answer my questions here including my challenge.

    Forgetting your own word to me back then in indo site? Do you want me to quote it?

    Abdullah is surely your only name according to your belief but your attitude disagree with that. You are in many occasions misinterpreting your master.

    You still owe me some source and verses.

  108. @ Prithvi

    Allah, the person using those names with 'Hindu' attached, and I know for sure that I wasn't the one who has posted with those unsympathetic aliases. Abdullah ihsan is the ONLY NAME I use to post comments in this side. That is the name I love most and that is what reminds myself of who I am before Allah.

    So, Miss… why accuse me of what I didn't do? I never do that to you. ;)

    I even politely asked 'free-from-shackles' whether she/he was everin as I noticed their similar approaches towards me. ;)

    The reason why I have been addressing you with Miss is because the name sounds like Prathiwi (a pretty common name for female here) which I thought originated from India. You know that Bima, Barata, Sadewa, and even Wisnu are also pretty common names used after Muslims here.

    And no Miss,

    I will never use such a bad word especially when it regards to other religions which I am sure all originated with a top message that there is only one God. The worst thing I would do against them is questioning the concept of non-oneness of God. That's all.

    Now…

    You are not going to say those verses are not authentic, are you?

  109. She run from it with excuse of "not a prayer" while Surah Al Lahab is a surah. How dumb she can be? She even avoided my surah. I named it Surah Al Jabaan.

  110. But Abdullah,

    I am still ready to forget this deep rooted evil inside you which the world recognizes as hatred and focus on the larger topic at hand.

    I will discuss all the topics and questions raised by you with regards to the Vedas at the right forum and this is not the right forum to discuss the Vedas. Let me know which is the forum you would like to discuss the Vedas with me and I would be more than happy to oblige to your request.

    Now coming back to our original debate which you have tried best to take our minds off from,
    you requested me to produce one Surah like the Quran (because that is wriiten in the quran), I have produced Three Surahs which are better than the Surah of Quran.

    Are you now ready to leave Islam for good?

  111. Abdullah Ihsaan,

    The moment I read the comment posted under the name “Hindu Dogs”, I suspected that it is none other but you.
    After going through your last response to me in the article “Anfal in Islam”, my suspicions were substantiated and I realised it is you. You followed it up with other names like “I Hate Hindu Dogs” and also “Hindu Penis Lovers”.

    All of you non-muslim human friends, all the names I have mentioned above are actually the true names of none other but Abdullah Ihsaan.

    Cont.

  112. Strange verse I must say. It shows another weakness of your god. Hey, your god even made strange decision about Isa.

    When I read this and move on to other verses, I found that this claim contradicts others. Allah did have similarity with living creature. ;)

  113. You mean copied? Finding this in any religions is child play, you know. At this rate any thing is possible in religions if you are creative but that's just it, merely internet rant.

    You do need to grow up and think more rationally.

  114. Save the queen becomes lock the queen at home. ;)

  115. Sati is no more and you should provide verse in Veda about it. You also should show the problem it creates in real world. Like I said, if the insiders can solve it, why bother? if the insiders justify it, that's problem. Feel me, kiddo?

    Are you sure gods in Hindu teach it? Show me the urgency. I asked in multiple posts but you didn't dare to prove it. Running as always, eh?

    My turn, do you justify the atrocity in Islam?

  116. Not memorizing it, silly, but making it famous and profitable as Harry Potter. Produce similar book that can match it. As you know, HP is no.1 book in the world so try to make a book like it.

    You can't memorize these huge books but Quran can because:

    1. It has less content
    2. It's made to be memorized while Potter is made to be enjoyed and read
    3. No reward believed by fans of HP books exist for memorizing it
    4. At Muhammad's time. people didn't record things.
    5. Memory sometimes fails or changes, like your Quran. Human memory is not storage disk.

    Using you logic, HP is superior because people can't memorize it. It's outside human ability.

    Do you understand the challenge? Do you even do any challenge here? Or you just give excuse to dismiss challenge? Provide me just one example of you doing any challenge here. Seriously, you are pathetic, you can't even understand your opponent's post.

  117. I ask you very simple question:

    Do muslims ever respond to the answer of the challenge?

    I knew the result even before I made the surah coz I know more than her.

  118. This has nothing to do with the challenge, but with my questions, yes. Confront me now if you dare, auntie. :D

  119. Surah is also used for prayer. Don't you know it? Allah also taught how to pray in multiple surah. Don't you know it? Allah never say any specific surah. Don't you know it? Do you really know your religion?

    Now, answer my surah, speedy.:p

  120. Answer my questions, auntie, inluding my past links to you. You might learn something there.

  121. People naturally respond but she naturally evades me and my queries, a terrific double standard. This won't happen in a real forum, not comment section.

  122. Allah the greatest is logically wrong. Do you want to say that this is human work? Because only human makes it that way. Wrong is wrong, no matter ho many times you bring another wrong.

    All of these make me think that god is not actually as great as you describe after all if you know what I mean. He has so many restriction on himself. Don't know whether he can or can't break it.

    Auntie, coward person doesn't have the right to talk about "gut".

  123. She's just copy pasting it. She has no knowledge on Hinduism. Even she cannot understand Islam properly. Destroy her just once with solid proof and she will avoid you for the rest of her post here. That's cowardly mind in action and I've seen it myself.

  124. Do you have the gut to:

    1. Answer my queries about Islam?
    2, Answer my 4 comparative points?
    3. Answer my rational and philosophical questions about monotheism?
    4. Answer my challenge about Islamic science?
    5. Answer my surah?
    6. Last but not least, stop copy pasting and use your own brain?

    How about it, auntie? When I see something wrong, I don't care whether it has one god or not. Wrong is wrong and one doesn't equal to right. This is objectivity. :D

  125. How about this? Have you heard any muslim responding to the response of surah challenge? ;)

  126. Nothing, but in her dict, yes, there is something there. She can jump very high, remember? :p

  127. Does mentioning monotheism in another religion makes Islam right? Does monotheism equals to truth? That means any monotheistic religion is true. There are plenty of examples other than Islam. All we do is sorting it out and discard the one that has error in it, even a single one is enough. xD

  128. Blood of the victims and the cruelty of Allah towards unbelievers of course. You can see that in present generation like, atrocity, discrimination, terrorism, killing etc.

    Assassinating innocent people is cruel, attacking innocent tribe is cruel, taking slaves and rape them is cruel and killing certain people just for personal revenge is cruel. Need I say more?

    PS: nothing beautiful in Allah's name. It's just name, an illusion.

  129. And yet, this Allah created many lies, blunders, mistakes etc that actually incompatible with the word "god".

    You do realize that merely claiming "one" doesn't mean it's real, don't you?

    Is it possible for a fake prophet to talk about "one god"? Yes or no? Sorry, but assuming truth just because a religion claim one god is absurd. This is human concept and easy to be made. To be tricked with this cheap ad is hilarious.

    You didn't refute the error in Islam and keep repeating one god as if this can erase the error. This is childish.

    Another question: Why do you describe god as just "one"/ using number?

    Don't just calling him as creator, finish the problem in Q 23:14.

  130. So? Interpretation like this is nothing new. I still remember you brought site that's really bad for Muhammad's prophecy.

    My questions, auntie, answer it.

  131. Have you verified the content and authentication, let alone similarity with Islam?

  132. Auntie,

    Yes, you are. You just keep threatening anyone who expose Islam with hell. Anything that disagrees with you is given with negative remark like this. You do understand it, don't you?

    He's not thinking that he's smarter than Allah, he's proving it.

  133. Mr Abdullah ihsan, do u understand the contents of my earlier comment?

  134. Alright, my dear Dr Ali Sina <3, I respect your wish. Let's hope that our dear Mormon Scientist, John K, will regain his right senses soon. :D

  135. The discussion about Mormon might be interesting, but this site is not the right venue for it. Please let us discuss Islam only.

  136. Well, the *real* Muslims lost you when you used the word "Think" – do *real* Muslims have that luxury at all? lol..
    .
    They've been prescribed all the smallest details including how many stones to use to clear one's rear-side after defecation – and what to do if someone farts during their prayer.
    .
    Where's a need for any muslim to *think*? Remember they're not free, independent beings – they're slaves, slaves of al-lah (Hubaal), slaves of the Imam of Jama Masjid, slaves of al-Saud al-Wahab, slaves of the Ayatollah, slaves .. slaves … slaves.. and slaves don't have the necessity nor the luxury to think.
    .
    MN

  137. @Arya Anand,
    .
    Wow !! I din't realize you had so much knowledge of Tamil. Kalakkal ponga.. [translation for others: Simply super, loved it, sir]. And no wonder neither of us are out there defending vedas or any other scriptures; whether we like it or not Periyar and D-K movement definitely stoked up & highlighted the "pagutharivu" (trans: ability to think rationally objectively) of the tamil population (correct me if I'm wrong in assuming you, like me, have some relationship with the tamil people).
    .
    MN

  138. @Prithvi,
    .
    Please don't respond. This is not the proper site for this discussion. Provide a blog or take this discussion to agniveer.com forum. Let's see if "Abdullah ihsan" has an iota of a spine to debate you at agniveer.com. This site is dedicated by Dr. Ali Sina to make his case for peace, brotherhood by decimating the single-most powerful enemy of peace, brotherhood. Let's support Dr. Sina in his mission – for we all know who wants to destroy Dr. Sina's mission here.
    .
    Once again, I urge you to challenge Abdullah ihsan to take this discussion to the agniveer.com forum. If he or she can't then you've confirmed who is the coward. If she does, then you have a wonderful chance to learn a lot more about a lot of things – and agniveer.com is a great place for these topics.
    .
    Please consider this a humble request from a fellow human being.
    .
    MN

  139. I empathize with the statement, Dr. Sina. I restrict myself from making any more comments on any specific religion (given that Islam is not really a religion).
    .
    And I join you and request that all my Hindu brethren, please take these discussions to a different forum – possibly agniveer.com.
    .
    Having said that, it's not at all going to be easy for many who consider & identify themselves with the word "hindu" to *do nothing* when Muslims (& some others too, at times including myself) indulge in questioning (& criticizing, mocking) the basis of the Hindu religion. You see, Dr. Sina, good Hindus don't become fools like gandhi – they *fight* and they've been *THE SINGLE MOST POWERFUL* force that thwarted (or at least delayed significantly) the complete islamization of their people. It took 1000+ years for Muslims to finally get 2 parts of land (Pakistan & Bangladesh) out of India. If you look further east, at Indonesia, Malaysia – you'll see that the natives of those lands too fell to the Islamic sword pretty easily.
    .
    Compare that to the zorastrian motherland of Persia – that fell in a small percentage of the time. While I join you in asking my very own hindu brethren to move the discussions about vedas to agniveer.com (or any other site of their choice), I'd also take this opportunity to commend them for their fighting-spirit (sometimes within themselves too). Even though their choice of forum *IS* wrong, their spirit is what has saved us hindus from the 1000-year onslaught of muslims – unlike the cowardice of that sick fool named gandhi, who advised Jews to commit mass-suicide by jumping into the sea.
    .
    MN

  140. lol, you are going against your own quran when you say that the vedas are the original teachings.. :) for one, it is nowhere mentioned in the quran since old Mo had no idea about it .. :) Secondly and more importantly the vedas are perectly preserved, each word of it..so the very concept of quran gets nullified..B)
    Think a bit more when you drag hinduism into the foray again!

  141. “The fact that you admit that you have a spirit proves that my loving Creator God exist!” I am afraid that is not the case at all, it is only us the Satanists who have a sprit, not the religionists who have lost their’s and become nothing but robots. As Karl Marx put it religion is the sprit of the spiritless.

    “Even Satan has to bow down before Him!” I thought you said nobody was a slave!

    “we'll all be doomed because of our sins!” “Sins” as Christians define them are man’s natural instincts, this was a very clever invention of the church, that way since everyone is a sinner everyone is going to hell, which will not be so bad as you will meet all your friends and family there. While heaven will be populated by some strange beings playing harps for eternity.

    “Aren't you glad that Jesus is alive forevermore?” Your daddy is dead and gone and you need to get over it and grow up.

  142. Aaah !! my dear muslim friend (from my own dear country too !) has started using the vedas to prove the rightness of quran !! It reminds me of the instance naik tried proving muhammad's prophethood from hindu mythology, only for hindu scholars to show him that he was infact proving that muhammad to be an asura ! ( demon) ;)
    as for your comments on shudras not allowed to read vedas, you are exposing your ignorance about vedas. http://agniveer.com/821/vedas-and-shudra/

    and I fail to understand, how Allah, or for that matter Brahma, having beautiful names is a reply to Ali Sina's point? You answer question A with answer Z. and time and again I am noticing you are diverting the attention from islam to hinduism when you clutch at straws for answering questions posed to you by other users here. and since you used that particular verse, I will show you a contradiction: "who pervades" . Vedas speak of Brahman as all pervading, that is , present in each atom in the universe, as against an allah who sits on a throne in the 7th sky.. ;)
    "It is by the blood (which you always refer to as cruel and barbaric) of the first generations of Islam (the Shahabat) that the Oneness and beautiful names of Allah (God) is available for the next generations to read, including us." … >>>is this even worth a comment? Blinded by the quran.

  143. "To begin with, the truth is that my loving Creator God has never created anyone of us as slave but to be His friend." Well i don`t want him as my "friend" a friend who tells you what to wear, who to date, what to say and indeed what to think and if i don`t obey him he will torture me. Then such a person is my enemy, now come be honest admit you are a slave of Jesus.

  144. "and I have shown him even the original teaching in Veda was monotheism in which God has all the beautiful characters."

    And what does the Veda have to do with the lies, fraud and evils of Allah?

  145. @ Prithvi

    Now will you have the guts, sincerity and braveness to take out the concept of God incarnations as according to your Holy Veda it's all wrong?

  146. @ Prithvi

    Have you visited http://voi.org/books/hvhb/ch1.htm ?

    The holy Veda says God is One. Here let help you quot:

    "Verily He is ONE
    Single, indivisible, supreme reality."
    – Atharva Veda 13/4/20

    "He is the SOLE sovereign
    Of the universe."
    – Rig Veda 6/36/4

    He is one, UNPARALLELED
    Through His wondrous, mighty
    And formidable laws and deeds.
    – Rig Veda 8/1/27

    There is ONLY ONE
    Who ought to be adored
    By the people.
    – Atharva Veda 2/2/1

    O friends,
    Adore NONE ELSE but Providence
    Who is supreme bestower of bliss
    And thus thou wilt not suffer;
    Eulogise Him in congregation
    And sing songs of His glory repeatedly
    – Sam Veda 242

    He is One Brahma
    The Creator of the cosmos
    Who pervades and protects
    And enlightens aft beings
    He is One Supreme Entity
    Whom sages call by VARIOUS NAMES
    Such as Indra, the glorious
    Mitra, the benign friend
    Varuna, the GREATEST, the NOBLEST
    Agni, the resplendent, the bright
    Yama, the dispenser of justice
    Matarishwa, the almighty.
    – Rig Veda 1/164/46

    He, the all-pervasive
    Pervades all beings
    Within and without.
    – Yajur Veda 32/8

    Thou art Lord of lords.
    – Rig Veda 1/94/13

    God has NO image.
    – Yajur Veda 32/3

    Here is a quot from the author to explain the verses:

    God is SINGULAR, but HIS NAMES are PLURAL. All the EPITHETS mentioned in Holy Vedas are ascribed to one God, who is Creator of the cosmos. Shiva, Shankara, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh, Ganesh, Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Yama etc. are the EPITHETS of ONE Supreme Being, who is formless, featureless, BIRTHLESS and BODILESS. He is unborn, eternal, immortal and everlasting. He has no agents, no intermediaries, no representatives, NO INCARNATIONS and NO PARTNERS. He has neither father, nor mother. He has neither wife, nor sons, nor daughters. He has no attachment. But He is Benevolent Father of all his children, and imparts equal love impartially to all his creatures. He is kind to all, cruel to, none. His first name is Om. But He is evoked and adored by several other names which are written in Vedas

    Note: if you go through the verses, you won't miss the word 'GREATEST' and 'NOBLEST' (this I am referring to your linguistic question about Allahu Akbar, meaning Allah the Greatest)

    At last:

    Please explain who made the concept of incarnation when the Holy Veda clearly states the Oneness of God?

    Was it the higher castes (given the Sudras were not allowed to read Veda)?

    For what purposes that they had long prevented the so-called lowest people (whom I wouldn't call that way) to read the Oneness of God?

  147. @ agracean

    Have you visited the site?

  148. Mr Abdullah ihsan, let's focus on your Islam first before we can proceed to discuss about Vedas or Hinduism. The allah you worship is a hoax, set up by a very evil false prophet whose heart is full of pride and despicability. Please read the Quran about Muhammad's understanding of the creation account and compare it with the Torah and the Bible and you'll find that Muhammad was a horrible liar. You'll find out that only your allah created jinn. Why? The fact is that Muhammad's allah is satan in disguise.

  149. Oh, Mr Mormon John K, please be informed that more than a year ago, a Mormon friend in USA gave me a link to read all your Mormon books online and I was shock to know that so many professional dummies out there in USA follow this false prophet, Joseph Smith and his wrong teachings. I wonder what has gone wrong with all these professional brains? And I'm really sad to know that you belong to this category. :'(

  150. @ agracean

    you do?

    well I don't. ;)

    and I have shown him even the original teaching in Veda was monotheism in which God has all the beautiful characters.

    please visit: http://voi.org/books/hvhb/ch1.htm

  151. I seriously doubt that you've read any of them at all.

  152. What more can we do? Abdullah ignores everything factual which is said about Islam and only returns irrelevant counter-questions.

  153. That seems to sum up the problem in a nutshell. Muslims don't come from a knowledge-based society, so they don't know how to evaluate what they are reading, if, in fact, they have read at all.

  154. Dear John K, I believe that my beloved Dr Ali Sina will be surprised to know that this is how a good Mormon like you will respond when a truthful Christian lady like me exposed all the Mormon fictions concorted by Joseph Smith. Aren't you behaving and reacting like those braindead Muslims here when my dear Dr Ali Sina exposed all the Islamic fictions and lies here?

    I'm amazed that you can even go to the extend of saying that my good and truthful explanations are not truthful. It's not that that I never listen to your Mormon teachings. It's because of the fact that they are all nonsense and it's totally different from what my beloved Lord Jesus's teachings according to the KJV Bible. So how in the world can I agree with your preachings and compromise the truth?

    kindly note that I've read all your Mormon books before answering your questions and I confirm that it is a cult. I believe that my beloved truthful Dr Ali Sina will fully agree with me. If you doubt so, please humble yourself and seek his professional psychoanalysis.
    :p:p:)

  155. “THE SELF RESIDES WITHIN THE LOTUS OF THE HEART. KNOWING THIS, CONSECRATED TO THE SELF, THE SAGE ENTERS DAILY THAT HOLY SANCTUARY. ABSORBED IN THE SELF, THE SAGE IS FREED FROM IDENTITY WITH THE BODY AND LIVES IN BLISSFUL CONSCIOUSNESS” – SAMA VEDA, CHANDOGYA UPANISHAD 8.3.3-4, THE UPANISHADS,

    Now that I have not just produced but enhanced on your request of producing just one Surah, would you leave Islam?

    FRIENDS, PLEASE HELP ABDULLAH, HE NEEDS YOUR GUIDANCE FOR MOTIVATING HIMSELF MORE THAN EVER BEFORE!

  156. My Surah, as told me by simple men who were called Rishis or Sages who were not God’s messengers. Not told to them by the creator of all but their own self-realization with an enduring process of Meditation and Self-Consciousness.

    “THE SOUL IS BORN AND UNFOLDS IN A BODY, WITH DREAMS AND DESIRES AND THE FOOD OF LIFE. AND THEN IT IS REBORN IN NEW BODIES IN ACCORDANCE WITH ITS FORMER WORKS.
    THE QUALITY OF THE SOUL DETERMINES ITS FUTURE BODY—EARTHLY OR AIRY, HEAVY OR LIGHT.” – SHVETASHVATARA UPANISHAD, 5.11-12

    “ACCORDING TO ONE’S DEEDS, ACCORDING TO ONE’S BEHAVIOR, SO ONE BECOMES.
    THE ONE WHO DOES GOOD BECOMES GOOD, THE ONE WHO DOES EVIL BECOMES EVIL.
    ONE BECOMES VIRTUOUS BY VIRTUOUS ACTION AND EVIL BY EVIL ACTION.
    THAT TO WHICH THE HEART IS ATTACHED, TOWARD THIS,
    THE SUBTLE BODY MOVES TOGETHER WITH ITS ACTION, WHICH STILL ADHERES.
    ATTAINING THE GOAL OF WHATEVER ACTIONS HE PERFORMED HERE ON EARTH,
    HE GOES ONCE MORE FROM THAT WORLD TO THIS WORLD OF ACTION.”
    YAJUR VEDA, BRIHADARANYAKA UPANISHAD 4.5-6

    Cont.

  157. Abdullah,

    I am presenting one of your Surahs which you recite everyday and 3 OF MY SURAHS which I recite every day. So you requested for one Surah, I am getting back with 3 Surahs to you.

    If you agree and others on the forum agree that the Surahs which I recite every day is better than your Surah, it is action time for you.

    Your Surah, portrayed to you as a Surah by a thug/robber by profession. As per him, narrated to him by the creator of all.

    So Muhammad says that Allah told him:

    111.001, 111.002, 111.003, 111.004, 111.005
    “THE POWER OF ABU LAHAB WILL PERISH, AND HE WILL PERISH. HIS WEALTH AND GAINS WILL NOT EXEMPT HIM. HE WILL BE PLUNGED IN FLAMING FIRE, AND HIS WIFE, THE WOOD-CARRIER, WILL HAVE UPON HER NECK A HALTER OF PALM-FIBRE”

    Cont.

  158. “THE SELF RESIDES WITHIN THE LOTUS OF THE HEART. KNOWING THIS, CONSECRATED TO THE SELF, THE SAGE ENTERS DAILY THAT HOLY SANCTUARY. ABSORBED IN THE SELF, THE SAGE IS FREED FROM IDENTITY WITH THE BODY AND LIVES IN BLISSFUL CONSCIOUSNESS” – SAMA VEDA, CHANDOGYA UPANISHAD 8.3.3-4, THE UPANISHADS,

    Now that I have not just produced but also enhanced on your request of producing just one Surah, would you leave Islam?

    FRIENDS, PLEASE HELP ABDULLAH, HE NEEDS YOUR GUIDANCE FOR MOTIVATING HIMSELF MORE THAN EVER BEFORE!

  159. I was only asking a question. I don't know enough about the British rule of India to have an informed opinion. I know the Indian soldiers served with distinction in WWII, and that Gurkhas continue to serve with distinction today.

    The article I recently read is here [lower half of page]:

    Sir Pertab Singh & The Prince of Wales

    http://www.strategypage.com/cic/docs/cic361b.asp

  160. "why you didn't respond to my truthful comments?"

    Oh, because they're not truthful and you never listen to anything that doesn't fit with your pre-conceived opinions.

    I would be glad to entertain your question in PM at Freedom Bulwark.

    I should do the same as Dr. Sina and insist you read my book before answering questions.

  161. Dear John K, why you didn't respond to my truthful comments? Is it true that you are dumbfounded by Joseph Smith's wrong interpretation of the KJV Bible and that he is a false prophet? xD

  162. That's true. Auntie is deflecting attention from Islam by responding to people's questions with counter-questions about their religion, so people naturally respond. The consequence of that is that when people browse into the site for the first time to read the article, going to the comments section to gain more insight on the topic is difficult because of the off-topic discussions.

    Sites with full-time moderators will actually move off-topic comments to the appropriate topic, but I understand resources are not available for that.

  163. Instead why don't you tell us something good about a real Sura. It's just Muhammad's narcissism.

  164. "have you heard anyone responding to the challenges?"

    Dr. Sina has already given a link to a website with a lot of suras, but it's irrelevant to write something like the Quran because the Quran is not a quality document. It is a reflection of Muhammad's mental illness and criminality.

  165. Actually, the Quran contains nothing of literary value. Only an uneducated Muslim without exposure to real literature could think the Quran has any quality to it. Even when Muhammad is trying to sound spiritual it has an affected air to it that harmonizes with the narcissistic purpose of the surrounding words.

  166. Right. It will start with a compromise agreement that it will be practiced only in Muslim zones, but it will take over the country if someone doesn't wake up.

  167. She is certainly a case study in Muslim psychology. Rather baffling to me, but she provides plenty of data to on this behavior.

  168. "I am only asking you in response to your hatreds against my religion Islam."

    How can anyone's answer about anything else reflect on Islam?

    Your questions only serve to deflect attention away from talking about the criminality and fraud of Islam.

    Do you love criminality and fraud? Then why do you love Islam?

  169. "You are quoting verses from Bible to prove your Christian dogmas just like Muslims quote Quran or Hadiths to prove their Islamic beliefs ."

    It's not because we back it up with proof. Islam offers no proof, and cannot because it is obviously a system created by Muhammad.

    I appreciate you sharing your Lutheran experience, but your experience is valid only your yourself. It's not that I doubt your evaluation of the experience, but each person has unique experiences and are responsible to evaluate their own experiences. You are not in a position to evaluate mine.

  170. She tempts one to believe Muhammad was right about being deficient in intelligence.

  171. Abdullah, Eat food which helps in developing the human brain cause yours suffers from malnutrition.

  172. It doesn't matter if you believe that my loving Creator God exists or not because the absolute truth is that He is the Master of the whole Universe and He is your loving Creator God Who has created you in His image. The fact that you admit that you have a spirit proves that my loving Creator God exist! Even satan has to bow down before Him!

    If Jesus did not come down from Heaven personally and died to settle the penalty for our sins and rose again from death, we'll all be doomed because of our sins! Aren't you glad that Jesus is alive forevermore?

  173. To begin with, the truth is that my loving Creator God has never created anyone of us as slave but to be His friend. Only satan will recruit gullible human beings to be his slaves. Take a good look at Islam and you will understand what slavery is all about.

    Please be informed that it is never God's intention to torture any rebellious fallen angels or rebellious human beings for eternity. Never! The truth is that my loving Creator God doesn't delight in seeing any of His creations landed in hell or the lake of fire at all but all these unrepentent and rebellious spirits and souls are beyond redemption. That's why I believe that my loving Creator God has to end all this nonsense and great evil once and for all on that great white throne judement which is also known as the the final judgement day.

  174. “Hi enlightened25, the truth is that the real axis of evil began when satan became prideful and rebelled against his loving Creator God” Yes your “Loving” god, who will reward you for eternity if you become his slave but if you dare to think for yourself you are a Satanist and in rebellion and will be tortured for eternity. Well take your Jesus and shove him. I’m not a slave to your god I am a Satanist. Now you can say but save yourself from eternal hellfire yes your god could burn (I mean if he really existed which he doesn’t) me but there’s one thing he cannot take and that is my sprit. Also I never asked the fool Jesus to shed his blood for me, and if I was there I would have tried to stop the torture and crucifixion of an eccentric preacher. So no Jesus will not lead you to the light he will lead you to a very real hell in this world, it is Lucifer the roman god of light, the personification of enlightenment we should follow, not the god of death and slavery that is Jesus so-called messiah.

  175. Mr Arya Anand, after reading your above comment, I think that you should read Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. I pray that you will follow Jesus Christ, your Lord and Saviour and not man because Jesus will never fail you but man will.

  176. Mr Abdullah ihsan, I totally agree with my beloved Dr Ali Sina's above comment! :)

  177. Hi enlightened25, the truth is that the real axis of evil began when satan became prideful and rebelled against his loving Creator God and he became the head and source of all evil that we could ever imagine in the world. But the good news is that my loving Creator God raised Jesus Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

    So, if you are a satanist, do know that in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, He can deliver you from the kingdom of darkness into His marvellous Light, through the power of His blood which was shed for you when He died on that old rugged cross at Calvary 2000 years ago.

  178. Hi Uchiha Itachi,
    .
    My very restricted & rudimentary thoughts about Sanathan Dharm are not based on my personal research of the scriptures. It's based on a few sat-sangas and some of the "Chinmaya Vidyalaya" Bal-vihars (from when I was in school – sixth grade). So, I don't count on myself as anything more than a zero as far as the religion goes.
    .
    I'm glad to read "Who defines good/bad? .. Only rationality .. help you out here.. " in your reply. So, while the scriptures could act as this huge repository of information & opinions, it's every person's rationality that has to make the decision. And this is where the definition of good-bad becomes "subjective" – because what's completely a rational "good" to one person becomes a rational "bad" to another.
    .
    I continue to ponder about this question. One interesting concept I recently realized was made by Ayn Rand. One of her articles or you-tube interviews – she was speaking against "self-sacrifice". Her definition of "good" was anything that would extend or improve the survival of the person (or society) – and therefore there couldn't be any self-less activity that'll be classified as "good". May be that's my incorrect understanding of what she said, though.
    .
    Gandhi: Well, if you consider Shakuni, Ravan, Duryodhan and other such assorted characters as misguided fools, then yes, gandhi too was the same. Each one had a reason for their actions, didn't they? Even Shakuni had a rationale for whatever he did. gandhi belongs to the list because if people follow gandhi's opinions of moral-relativism & pacifism/non-violence, then those people will loose out "in the end". In the same way, if people followed Ravan or Dhuryodhan actions in their life, they'll still loose "at the end".
    .
    MN

  179. @ sina cont

    It is by the blood (which you always refer to as cruel and barbaric) of the first generations of Islam (the Shahabat) that the Oneness and beautiful names of Allah (God) is available for the next generations to read, including us. ;)

  180. @ sina cont….

    and here's is what I have found in the Holy Veda:

    He is One Brahma
    The Creator of the cosmos
    Who pervades and protects
    And enlightens aft beings
    He is One Supreme Entity
    Whom sages call by various names
    Such as Indra, the glorious
    Mitra, the benign friend
    Varuna, the greatest, the noblest
    Agni, the resplendent, the bright
    Yama, the dispenser of justice
    Matarishwa, the almighty.

    – Rig Veda 1/164/46

    please visit: http://voi.org/books/hvhb/ch1.htm to read the concept of God for your self.

    but given that the Sudras were not allowed to read the Holy Veda, then who made the concept of incarnation? the higher castes? what purposes was it done for?

    In the Sira (if you really have read it carefully), the verses revealed about God being the only deity who has beautiful names were conveyed to anyone who wanted to learn the truth, and none at all was prohibited to read them. ;)

  181. @ sina

    I have done that Mr. SIna.

    "He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

    He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

    He is Allah, The Creator, The Initiator, The Supreme Fashioner. To Him (belong) the Fairest Names. Whatever is in the heavens and the earth extols to Him, and He is The Ever-Mighty, The Ever-Wise."

    QS 59 : 22-24

  182. "Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,

    Allah , the Eternal Refuge.

    He neither begets nor is born,

    Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

    (QS 112)

    "He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

    He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

    He is Allah, The Creator, The Initiator, The Supreme Fashioner. To Him (belong) the Fairest Names. Whatever is in the heavens and the earth extols to Him, and He is The Ever-Mighty, The Ever-Wise.

    (QS 59 : 22-24)

  183. @ hindu2011

    "Verily He is one
    Single, indivisible, supreme reality.
    – Atharva Veda 13/4/20"

    He is the sole sovereign
    Of the universe.
    – Rig Veda 6/36/4

    He is one, unparalleled
    Through His wondrous, mighty
    And formidable laws and deeds.
    – Rig Veda 8/1/27

    There is only One
    Who ought to be adored
    By the people.
    – Atharva Veda 2/2/1

    Given the Sudras were not allowed to read the Holy Vedas in which it says God is One, then who made the concept of incarnation? higher castes?

  184. @ Prithvi

    Please visit this: http://voi.org/books/hvhb/ch1.htm

    It might be helpful for you.

  185. I suggest you only talk about Christianity as you obviously don’t know anything about Satanism because if you had read Anton Lavey`s the satanic bible (“on the choice of human sacrifice“) you would have read this “Under no circumstances would a Satanist sacrifice any baby or animal!” So stop talking your propaganda nonsense because we all know what the real axis of evil is i.e. Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

  186. @ hindu2011

    Now you are even putting the blame on Islam for the already-existing sati. Read why women in Hindu used to do sati (for different purposes other than that you have quoted ) ;)

  187. @ hindu2011

    No, it's you who should use common sense. Please list people who can memorize Harry Potter. ;)

  188. Dear Abdullah, Your Allah is a lie. He is not God. If you want to believe in God look elsewhere. Allah is Satan. You must get over this lie in order to be able to think straigt.

  189. @ sina

    No, I don't hope for the worst thing to happen to you. I am reminding you that when you think that you are smarter than Allah, you will end up regretting what you are promoting.

  190. Either Jesus is myth (or a liar or a madman) or he is the "God of everything".

  191. @ Prithvi

    Did I say prayer?

  192. @ hindu2011

    "As per Vedas, God never incarnates into human form."

    That's also what I have found. ;)

  193. stop talking about christianity if you think it is a myth, then it is like that for you, but for those who believes, He is the God of everything for them.so stop.

  194. hello brother arya!
    http://agniveer.com/3937/who-wrote-vedas/
    http://agniveer.com/5166/textual-corruption-in-ve

    I am not saying this will be the clinching answer for your question. However, its a starter.

  195. You are quoting verses from Bible to prove your Christian dogmas just like Muslims quote Quran or Hadiths to prove their Islamic beliefs . It is circular argument. Here Biblical or your own beliefs are in question which cannot be proven from Bible verses.

    Paul cannot be considered an authority on early Christian doctrine because he was actually a traitor to Judeo-Christian faith, He interpolated many pagan, mainly pagan Roman beliefs into his version of Christianity. Today's Christianity including all its denominations, is only Pauline Christianity that has no connection to early Christian faith headed by James, one of the brothers of Jesus, which was destroyed mercilessly by the early Pagan Christian Church.

    As for spiritual experience, it depends on people and on how they perceive their spiritual experience. Not only Christians but all other believers following different religions say they underwent spiritual experience.

    In a true Christian sense, I was too anointed with holy spirit by a Lutheran Christian preacher when I attended a Christian meeting in my Lutheran Christian school when I was a 10th grade student and started speaking foreign languages that nobody could understand, in the style of Pentecostal Christians. It was a spiritual experience for me at that time but within a year later, I came to realize that it was nothing but Christian religious fanatic mood close to some kind of hysteria.

  196. And who invented that fact? Arya Anand or your guru Max Muller?

    As sina said, why can't you come to a hindu forum i.e. Agniveer.com? to discuss all these issues instead of blabbering here and misguiding other fellows.

  197. Dear Mr. Sina,

    I wanted to request this to Abdullah in my last comment but did not thinking that my modesty would be mistaken as my weakness, I think it was best that it came from you.

    There are forums on Hinduism like the one mentioned in the comments by someone with the name Agniveer, those who wish to learn about Hinduism can contribute there and not on alisina.org

  198. Well said, Prithvi.

  199. Sorry for participating in a discussion on matters of Hinduism here.

  200. I believe certain person here had started it. A person who doesn't want Islam under the spotlight. ;)

  201. First of all, there were no four Vedas. There was only One Veda in ancient times in India. The poetic verses composed by many poets or sages over a longer span of time came to be known as Veda(meaning "that which contains Vidya i.e.knowledge") in later times among ancient Hindus. Thereafter, after a long period of time, a renowned sage Vyas compiled the Vedic verses into three different books or volumes giving such names to each book or volume as Rig, Yajur and Sam. This was how three Vedas came into being. These three Vedas were called Taitriya Vedas meaning Triple Vedas. There was no fourth Veda named Atharva at that time. Even Bhagavat Geetha speak of only these three Vedas, not about the fourth Veda i.s Atharva Veda.

    The fouth Atharva Veda was a later addition in the list of Vedas and it only consists of the verses of the Rig Veda and additional verses for black magic.

    This is a brief history of Vedas.

  202. This site is about Islam. Please take your discussion on Hinduims to a Hindu forum. I don\’t want to divert the attention of the readers to any other subject than the scope of this site.

  203. It's a circular argument.

  204. The weird meaning of Yajna being just a noble deed or purifying act,etc is just an invention made by your guru Dayanand Saraswathi.

    The fact is that Yajna(Agnihotram) of Hindus, Yasna of Zoroastrians and Burnt Offerings of Jews are one and the same tradition of worship.

  205. You are Abdullah with absurd mind coz you ignored answer, questions and trying to distract everything. No one else has a name like this in this site.

    Haven't you read? There is a challenge for you here, multiple one. <3<3

  206. We have the sincerity and braveness to call something wrong, wrong because we have brains and we are never told to believe in anything with blind eyes.

    We Hindus have the guts, character and sincerity to take out customs or rituals which are demeaning for any human being and against the principals of humanity.
    The abolishment of the Sati pratha and even severely punishing the rarest of rare cases of human sacrifices by some demented rascal in the name of pleasing a God are just some of the examples.

    Now, since you requested to produce a sura like what is written in quran, I have produced one prayer, let us talk about that.

  207. More importantly for you, whether Lord Krishna had 8 wives or 16,008 wives does not matter to ME till such time

    HIS WIVES DOES INCLUDE A 6 YEAR OLD CHILD PLAYING WITH DOLLS,
    HIS OWN DAUGHTER IN LAW,
    A WIFE WHOSE FATHER AND HUSBAND WERE BEHEADED THE SAME DAY.

    This is the difference between a Human and a muslim or I should say between a Hindu/Christian/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist/Jew with a muslim; you cannot think about humanity and moral values. These words do not appear in the quran or hadith.

    Everyone else is a human first and then whatever but not you guys, the muhammadans.

    Cont.

  208. This is bizarre muhammadism at best, what is the relation between my religion Hinduism being sacred and divine and your religion islam being evil and demonic.

    Do you also realise how helpless a muslim starts sounding when just presented by some logical questions about the teachings, needless to say that the character of the founder is just the icing on the cake? I know you will keep arguing.

    The best part is that to make anyone understand the evils of islam and the demonic character of muhammad, you do not even need to be a scholar. All you need to read is the hadith and that is it and read yourself, why take the help of anyone else.

    Cont.

  209. Abdullah Ihsaan,

    You have been commenting about Lord Krishna a lot off late which I missed out because probably it did not appear on the main page.

    Now read carefully.

    First of all, the source for any information on Lord Krishna is not Wikipedia. The ancient Hindu scriptures are more than 10000 year old and the source for information on Lord Krishna is the Bhagvad Geeta and also the Mahabharat.

    So you need to be careful and mature in your comment, so when you quote, quote from authentic texts like we quote from the quran and hadith.
    So quote from the Bhagvad Geeta or the Mahabharat which says that Lord Krishna had either 8 wives or 16,008 wives.

    This illogical fallacy can only come from a muslim that to prove the divinity of your religion or even the founder of the religion, you need to find out the negative aspects of someone else’s religion.

    Cont.

  210. You must remember Gandhi supported the Khilafath movement of Indian Muslims to revive Khilafath(Caliphate) in Turkey in 1920s. Gandhi was always ready to stoop to any level to appease Muslims.

  211. You seem to belong to ISKCON.

  212. I did not expect such a nonsense from you, John. If British rule is to be welcome, then why did your forefathers oppose fight the British rule and fought its army to get freedom for America? Do you say USA must have been a tail of the UK, not an independent nation as it is today? You seem to be against self rule and want to be a slave to your masters.

    There were many despicable traitors in India who worked hand in hand with the British rulers. We just hate them.

  213. Wrong logic again, Allah the best of creators consists fallacy if you insist that he is the only one that can create. Human can't do that in Quran as I've proven to you with verses.

    Hey, Muhammad didn't have logic class at that time. So, this is one more blunder. Make blunder like it challenge, auntie. This is the true meaning of it.

  214. Sanada_10 – ^_^ <3

  215. Source about Muhammad is still waiting ….. B)

  216. LOL. Reading in her brain equals to "read mine but I will not read yours".

    Only sold in muslim world.

  217. Still waiting my answers, auntie. Is Islam right or wrong? This is just one out of many questions I presented here. <3

  218. Oh, the liberal again. :D

    Money talks, John. If you want polygamy you can use multiculturalism as an excuse. Maybe UK will let beheading and stoning sometimes soon.

  219. Worse? All this time she just shows irrelevant case in other religions. The best she could do is providing lesser evil which is dead by now. Nothing is worse when compared to Islam. ^_^<3:o

  220. All deeds by Mo will be ignored by this auntie. She will talk about other irrelevant things in other religions which has no correlation nor real urgency. .

  221. Yeah, fallacious Muhammad is. ;)

    Wait, you do understand this, don't you? Coz you often respond something that you don't quite know about and proven to be misunderstanding many times. ;)

  222. Yeah. humans cannot be compared to god in whatever god's doing in Bible or Quran. So Q 23:14 doesn't refer to human whatsoever. You obviously don't understand anything here, you don't even understand what Quran says about it. B)

  223. My rebuttal, auntie. You forgot or didn't dare?

  224. Ah, double posting. No one will hate Islam if it's just about one god. No one will hate Khrisna too if he's god incarnate or not.

    It's irrelevant response once again.

    Don't offend people like your idol, auntie and try to answer my questions here. :p

  225. Care to answer on my question here? Don't just ask something, try to defend your faith once in a while. It's crumbling.

    The hatred on Islam will not be answered using this kind of silly bashing. Whoever Khrisna is won't make anyone hate him just because he's god or not. Khrisna is not Muhammad who raid, killed, subjugated, assassinated, insulted etc anyone he disliked.

    Wrong response, auntie. The same logic can be applied to Islam. No one will hate Muhammad and his Allah just because he claimed monotheism. It's the deed that matters.

    Quick question: Will anyone hate Khrisna based on this?

    Don't be offended too (ironically, Muhammad offended everyone) and don't run from it.

  226. Pay attention. She's avoiding another contradiction (poetry) in Islam and chose to call it "another discussion".

    She's also ignoring my answer and similar surah in other sites.

    Better quality is not going to work, you have to produce the same one. Let's say, you try to imitate idiot's rant and it must have at least the same level of idiocy and gives people the same repulsive reaction.

  227. Ah, I see now, Prithvi. She's not looking for answer to this challenge. She's looking for personal answer. She knows I have answered this challenge so she doesn't have the gut to respond.

    Muhammad never said it like this. Oh, the irony. ^_^

  228. Auntie, my surah is not answered. ;)

  229. Done that. ;)

    When you are done with this refuted post why don't you try to answer my surah? :p

  230. The challenge is about "surah like it". It means you have to present the same hatred in those verses. <3

  231. Harry Potter is quite obvious about the value that is about to be judged but this surah challenge is far from this. It's unclear on how to value it and Muhammad, as always, let it slip away without any explanation.

  232. Cont. for Abdullah,

    Your prayer, portrayed to you as a prayer by a thug/robber by profession. As per him, narrated to him by the creator of all.

    So Muhammad says that Allah told him:

    111.001, 111.002, 111.003, 111.004, 111.005
    “THE POWER OF ABU LAHAB WILL PERISH, AND HE WILL PERISH. HIS WEALTH AND GAINS WILL NOT EXEMPT HIM. HE WILL BE PLUNGED IN FLAMING FIRE, AND HIS WIFE, THE WOOD-CARRIER, WILL HAVE UPON HER NECK A HALTER OF PALM-FIBRE”

    My prayer, as told to me by a simple human being who was not the God’s messenger. Not told to him by the by the creator of all but his own intelligence and consciousness.

    “LORD, I DO NOT WANT WEALTH NOR CHILDREN NOR LEARNING. IF IT BE THY WILL, I SHALL GO FROM BIRTH TO BIRTH; BUT GRANT ME THIS, THAT I MAY LOVE THEE WITHOUT THE HOPE OF REWARD – LOVE UNSELFISHLY FOR LOVE’S SAKE”

    Now tell me.

  233. Ok Abdullah, I am giving you an opportunity again. Respond to it, everyone is checking your responses because you requested for it.

    I am presenting one of your prayers which you recite everyday and one of my prayers which I recite every day.

    If you agree and others on the forum agree that the prayer which I recite every day is better than your prayer, then you will leave this monstrous religion Islam, ok. :D

  234. Got it folks, Abduallah again changed his colours.
    Can you ever debate with a hypocrite because in my opinion he is one of the best modern day example.

  235. Lord Krishna was a great noble follower of Vedic religion. He is a role model for all of us. Same with Shri Ram, they are our role modles. As per Vedas, God never incarnates into human form.

  236. This is on El Padrino's many lies. Hindus don't have to believe squat from the vedas or any doctrine. Furthermore he's probably lying about the context of the Vedas too. This is the message he sent me. The subject was "puta de hijo" spanish for son of a bit*h

    I meant to say "putamadre" but then I tried to change to "hijo de puta".I typed so fast,I did not check it. Anyway,it should read hijo de puta

    So he apologizes for calling me one curse word only to call me another. This time it was "mother f***er"

    This is the type of person El Padrino is. Do not be fooled by his quasi academic knowledge. He's just an insecure person, who feels bad about himself and takes it out on others. And he'll do it by lying and by being condescending to those who he disagrees with him. He did it with pagans, Jews, Hindus, and atheists. Don't take it personally. Just expose him for what he is.

  237. @ dharma marg noble

    I did what you suggested me do. And I found this site: http://voi.org/books/hvhb/ch1.htm

    And about the following verses:

    "O friends,
    Adore none else but Providence
    Who is supreme bestower of bliss
    And thus thou wilt not suffer;
    Eulogise Him in congregation
    And sing songs of His glory repeatedly"
    - Sam Veda 242

    The author says:

    God is singular, but his names are plural. All the epithets mentioned in Holy Vedas are ascribed to one God, who is Creator of the cosmos. Shiva, Shankara, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh, Ganesh, Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Yama etc. are the EPITHETS of one Supreme Being, who is formless, featureless, birthless and BODILESS. He is unborn, eternal, immortal and everlasting. He has no agents, no intermediaries, no representatives, NO INCARNATIONS and NO PARTNERS. He has neither father, nor mother. He has NEITHER WIFE, , nor SONS, nor DAUGHTERS. He has no attachment. But He is Benevolent Father of all his children, and imparts equal love impartially to all his creatures. He is kind to all, cruel to, none. His first name is Om. But He is evoked and adored by several other names which are written in Vedas.

    Who is Lord Khrisna?

    You are surely more familiar with the authenticity of verse than I am. But my question is:

    Wasn't this message supposed to be revealed even to the Sudras back then?

    Please don't be offended. I am only asking you in response to your hatreds against my religion Islam.

  238. @ dharma marg noble

    I did what you suggested me do. And I found this site: http://voi.org/books/hvhb/ch1.htm

    And about the following verses:

    "O friends,
    Adore none else but Providence
    Who is supreme bestower of bliss
    And thus thou wilt not suffer;
    Eulogise Him in congregation
    And sing songs of His glory repeatedly"
    – Sam Veda 242

    The author says:

    God is singular, but his names are plural. All the epithets mentioned in Holy Vedas are ascribed to one God, who is Creator of the cosmos. Shiva, Shankara, Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh, Ganesh, Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, Yama etc. are the EPITHETS of one Supreme Being, who is formless, featureless, birthless and BODILESS. He is unborn, eternal, immortal and everlasting. He has no agents, no intermediaries, no representatives, NO INCARNATIONS and NO PARTNERS. He has neither father, nor mother. He has NEITHER WIFE, , nor SONS, nor DAUGHTERS. He has no attachment. But He is Benevolent Father of all his children, and imparts equal love impartially to all his creatures. He is kind to all, cruel to, none. His first name is Om. But He is evoked and adored by several other names which are written in Vedas.

    Who is Lord Khrisna?

    You are surely more familiar with the authenticity of verse than I am. But my question is:

    Wasn't this message supposed to be revealed even to the Sudras back then?

    Please don't be offended. I am asking you in response to your hatreds against my religion Islam.

  239. @Uchiha Itachi

    Yes, both Vedas and Quran say themselves that they are written from God/Allah/Ishwar, but if you dont believe that Quran is the word of Allah, no matter how good or innocent you are, you will burn in hell.

    On the other hand, Vedas do not threaten you like the Quran. Vedas say be rational. If you think Vedas are not the world of God, then its fine with Vedas, because Vedas are strongly against blind belief.

    The reason we say Vedas are from God

    reason 1) There is no evidence that Vedas are made by human beings.

    reason 2) Vedas contain so much metaphysical science

    reason 3) Vedas are written in Sanskrit, and Sanskrit is known to be the ancient and accurate language even far accurate than computer codes, now how can a human invent this phenominon

    reason 4) Vedas pass all tests of logic and rationality

    reason 5) Have you heard of Vedic mathematics, go youtube search Vedic mathematics, and tell me how is all this a human invention.

    If none of you believe in Vedas, then that is good, because we are being more Vedic by being rational and logical in life.

  240. Brother Ashish, I think what anand meant here was that there is no way we can verify vedas are from God or not. What you suggested are excellent verses for contemplation, but they fall into the category of circular reasoning. It is simliar to the quran.Quran is allahs word why becuase quran says it is so!

    As for the statement, of course you are right. Which is why vedic religion works for me, in that it applies backwards,,,first you assume it is not, then, after deep contemplation, probing it in all the angles possible, come to a conclusion.

  241. Hello Anand.. this is interesting…the whole discussion has moved from anfal in islam to errors of vedas !!o.0

    "pure manipulation of the meanings of Vedic verses to conform the Vedas to modern science"

    This is really unfair brother! If that was the case arya samajis would be trying by hook or crook to show "big bang" in the vedas.. :) Why would they vocally assert that "something came out of nothing" is nonsense; that God brings about the union of inanimate matter and souls in an endless cycle of creation-sustenance-dissolution? After all this is the cutting edge science of today..they should be " finding" such miracles in the vedas!

    and your understanding of yajna is shallow. One brother has responded to below.

  242. Hello brother duratma! Thanks for your kind response..and I have a feeling you know much more about hinduism than me after I went through a few of your responses ^_^

    Abuse of those verses..hmm..your question is pertinent. Who defines good/bad? whose definition should we go by? Good/bad varies from scripture to scripture and person to person. Only rationality and your own inner conscience can help you out here. So after giving deep thought/approaching the scripture scientifically, its ultimately your call to decide what the said verse stands for. and Ishwar is not one to judge you on your beliefs but on your actions. If at all there is a god, this is the most obvious attribute of him.
    As to whether it can be misused or not,I dont deny the possibility. Anyway, the vedas have never reached the general public unlike the mahabharat / ramayan/ purans have. Very few have actual knowledge about it. So it should be that all scriptual teachings be discussed, analyzed and stand the test of basic humanity (again a variable) before we follow it.
    Plus, we always have sina's golden rule !! :D
    "If you indicate that killing of terrorists is condoned in Sanathan Dharma and a "good hindu will kill dasyu – terrorists" …. I would not put it so crudely as that..the destruction sought is of the very essence of evilness and not some particular individual. Thus, while vedas call for dealing with osamas and kasabs with an iron hand, it seeks the destruction of the very mentality of causing harm to innocent people.Yet again, I beleive that the more you delve into vedas with a rational approach, the more and more meaning you get out of it.Refer agni's complete articles on the caste system for an insight into this: the interpretation of purusha sukta to know what I am talking about.

    As for Gandhi, I dont think him to be a 'duratma'. I consider him as a misguided fool who has caused us a lot of harm. Duratma is reserved for the nehru dynasty starting from the top till the very end.

  243. @ Arya Anand,
    .
    I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I'm highly skeptical if Dr. Swamy becoming the Prime Minister will impact the "Islamic menace" in India – because, he'll find it impossible to implement his statements (from the article). There are a million practical difficulties in formulating detailed policy changes based on the high-level statements expressed by Dr. Swamy. For example, what's the guarantee that everyone (Hindus, Jains, Muslims, Sikhs, Xians, Buddhists, Atheists, LGBT community members, etc) that signs or supports a statement saying "I am proud of my Hindu ancestry" is being honest – they might as well lie (remember al-takkiya?).
    .
    Having said that, I'd have to add: I do think Dr. Swamy is being targeted for his activities in exposing the 2G scam; and I support his individual liberty to express his opinions (how much ever acerbic they are to liberals or muslims or hindus or LGBT or anyone).
    .
    I think Harvard took a wonderful stance when they heard the appeal to get Swamy out of his position as Visiting Prof at Harvard – they said, if we punish intellectuals from taking anti-popular positions, we provide a negative reinforcement thereby restricting critical thinking & expression – and that's not something Harvard will do.
    .
    People like Ron Paul & Subramanian Swamy definitely have these pockets of support – but, sorry to sound cliche & repetitive, they're not going to be able to convert these pockets into a major force (after all we still don't have the ripe environment as Geert Wilders had/has in his electoral constituency).
    .
    Bottom-line: In the near-future, if I had to bet 5 bucks "for" or "against" Swamy, I think the "against" wager will win.
    .
    MN

  244. @ashish,
    .
    I don't *hate* gandhi – I consider him a "duratma" – and I believe he was a cheap trickster who kept changing his stances to suit vested interests. I don't consider gandhi worthy enough of contempt or hatred or any other emotion – feeling.
    Do I hate an AK-47 because it fired bullets killing human beings – in the same way I don't hate gandhi. He was just a tool. It's the *ideological base" of "Moral Relativism" and "Pacifism" that I detest.
    There's another wonderful post on gandhi right here at freedom-bulwark. "http://www.freedombulwark.net/my-blog/muslim-appeasement-was-an-inseparable-part-of-gandhia-s-quack-doctrine-of-non-violence.html&quot;
    .
    And just so you know: as per Dr Ali Sina, gandhi is an exemplary hindu and "a good Hindu becomes a Gandhi". And Dr Sina will not debate or re-think this position of his; he'd rather hide under terms such as "jianism" (sic).
    .
    MN

  245. @ Prihtvi

    My name is Abdullah… if you want to talk to someone else , then it's alright. Take care.

  246. @ Arya Anand

    Read again your own posts. :)

  247. To ABDULLAH ihsan:: You are a blind follower of MO the pedo,cheater,robber,slave promoter,rapist,terrorist,murderer .You don't use rational thinking ,logical understanding. With your faint, convoluted superficial knowing of Hindu dharma, you are trying to inject confusion,obfuscation in the minds of christians too , trying to deflect christian opposition to ISLAM. HINDU DHARMA is original grandest and most scientific ideas,philosophy,principles,values- that nobody can find any wrong. Time will prove that. You know reincarnation is verified, in all countries. …. Mo was a false prophet but a profiteer. ALLA was fake, MO's imagination – Mo with his jealousy – to make his tribe suprewmacist in those days when christianity and judaism were spreading, thought of this concoction called ISLAM declaring himself as last profit. Mo has no original ideas,no original concepts, everything imitated or borrowed from the then known to him religions – christian and judaism. Then Mo sprinkled that with some preislamic arabian culture. The result is this monster called ISLAM – most primitive,cruel,intolerant,violent,murderous,hate filled theology called ISLAM. No human being needs to be a moslem. You must renounce ISLAM if you want to be a good ,humane and kind..

  248. @El Padrino

    any proofs for your stupidity about Vedas???? Please use translations of Agniveer.com if you are going to cite anything from Vedas

  249. @Abdullah

    can you create one chapter of Harry Potter book??? You cant, and since you cant, does this mean Harry Potter book is also from Allah??? Please use common sense before making stupid claims.

  250. Yajna in the Vedas meant a noble deed or the highest purifying action.

    Yajnas or agnihotram are considered by swami Dayanand as one of essential daily five duties of Aryans. Yajnas mentioned in Vedic beliefs were interpretated as sacrifices by most of western scholars as they were familiar with word sacrifice in bible (for e.g. Genesis 22:1-18, In Exodus 13:2 etc.).When they started translation of the Vedic texts their previous beliefs made them to interpretate Vedic Yajnas as sacrifice or fire service.

  251. conti 3 ….

    · The Yajur Veda (XL-8) says— “The Great Ruler of the universe, who is
    self-existent, All-pervading, Holy, Eternal and Formless, has been eternally
    instructing His subjects –the immortal souls –in all kinds of knowledge for
    their good through the Veda.”

    [For further information inquisitive readers should refer and study
    --Atharvaveda 12 Th. Khanda, 5 Th. Sukta and mantra # 1 to 73]

    (Atharvaveda 19-5-13, 12-5-4, 10-7-14) (Yajurveda 2/21, 23/61, 23/62, 31/7), the
    all-sustaining God is the author of the Vedas.

  252. conti….

    · “Brahma Padavaayam BraahmanemaAdheepatihi” (Atharvaveda 12-5-4) Which
    mean, “God is knower and revealer of the Vedas”.

    The Yajur Veda (31-7) says: “The Rigveda, the Yajurveda, the Samaveda and
    the Atharvaveda were produced by the Supreme and perfect Being, Parabrahman, who
    possesses the attributes of self-existence, consciousness and bliss, who is
    Omnipotent and universally adored. The meaning is that the four Vedas were
    revealed by God alone.”

    · The Atharvaveda (10-23-4-10) says— “Who is that Great Being who
    revealed the Rig Veda, the Yajur Veda, the Sama Veda and the Atharva Veda? He is
    the Supreme Spirit who created the universe and sustains it.”

  253. There are many proofs in the Vedas that show that the Vedas are the
    books of Divine revelation.

    The Yajurveda (31-3) explains that Agni = Rigveda (glorification), Vayu =
    Yajurveda (communion), Aaditya = Samaveda (emancipation) and Angira =
    Atharvaveda = sacred word i.e. God’s word.

    · “Tasmaad Yajyaat Sarvahuta RrichahSaamaani jagyire” (Rigveda 10-90-9)
    i.e. “God has created the Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Vedas”.

  254. But Paul taught that faith is evidence of things not seen which are true. While many Christians are unaware of this verse, a true Christian does not believe without evidence. Science and religion are different fields of knowledge, and the methods of obtaining and evaluating evidence are different in the two.

    Christ taught that he would send the Holy Spirit to testify to the truth of all things. I think most Christians would say that they know the Gospel is true because of spiritual experiences.

    Elsewhere I have cited the political/military doctrine of trust but verify. After receiving a witness from the Holy Spirit, check out the fruits and teachings to see if it makes sense.

    If it's obviously nonsense as it was with Muhammad, then you know there was something wrong with the spiritual experience, as in the case of Muhammad's mental disorders as discussed in Dr. Sina's book.

    His book has a chapter devoted to the scientific theory of a "God center" in the human brain. While I agree with Dr. Sina's assessment of Muhammad, I think it is too cynical to write off spiritual experiences in normal people with healthy brains.

  255. All beliefs are blind, i.e they cannot be proven. Otherwise, they are not beliefs but facts.

  256. Oh. Like that is going to be accepted by the academic community. You people have low standards.

  257. …. no such things as sacrifice in Vedas…

    This is really one of the inventions made by Dayanand Sarawati who founded Arya Samaj. In Sanskrit, Yajna means sacrifice and Vedas talk about a number of Yajnas. Yajnas are same like burnt offerings mentioned in Old Testament.

  258. Muslim polygamists are already drawing welfare benefits for multiple wives in the UK, and Muslim polygamists are being tolerated in the US where polygamy is supposed to be illegal and prosecuted.

  259. There is nothing wrong about looking at other religions if you are doing it to learn something and can be respectful of the people who believe in them. We even have a scholarly discipline called Comparative Religion.

    The problem with you is that you only talk about other religions to show that they are worse than Islam and to deflect attention away from Islam, which, as Dr. Sina says, is something that all Muslims do.

    It doesn't matter if all religions are stupid and false, as Dr. Sina said. It doesn't make Islam good, and it doesn't take away all the facts that prove Islam is false.

  260. What is the value of splitting hairs on these words. Is it not obvious that humans both invent and create? And is it not obvious that we have limitations on what we can create and invent?

    Of course you realize that this creates problems in Islam because of its disapproval of the arts of music and drawing among others.

  261. Should follow your own advice.

  262. "When you guys are done with the discussion, please try to make just one Surah."

    I'm sure they wouldn't lower themselves to the production of literary garbage. They might write something of quality, though, to show you the contrast.

  263. You don't know me well enough to determine whether my belief is blind or not.

    Also you should note that the thumbs up / thumbs down system is a rating supplied by the readers, not the site administrators.

  264. Agniveer is not an Arya Samaji organization. It does consider Swami Dayanand as a role model, but does not have a high opinion about current Arya Samaj.

  265. Is Agniveer an offshoot of Arya Samaj?

  266. @Duratma_Gandhi
    It seems you hate MK Gandhi, here is a very good post exposing Gandhi and his anti-india works.
    Post is in HINDI.
    http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/gand

  267. You don't think you are attacked personally by Hindus and atheists. You are blindly believing in Christian dogmas just like any other religious person. They are just expressing their views on your beliefs. Their views are not meant to insult your beliefs.

  268. I have not changed my statement. You are not understanding things properly. Go read my comment carefully. I only said that humans cannot be considered creators in the true sense of creation as meant in Bible or Quran. As per Bible or Quran, God IS the creator and none else and in other words, there is none who can create except God.

  269. You are correct.

  270. About hinduism. Hinduism is not based on any doctrine"

    Hinduism is based on many doctrines.And those many doctrines recognize the ultimate authority of one single doctrine,ie. The Vedas,which is basically a collection of hymns containing many stupidities,witchcraft spells,calls for war and plunder,etc.

  271. As a mere culture and tradition, I like very much Hindu culture and tradition and this sense I'm a Hindu. But I do not believe in anthropomorphic god and his incarnations in human or any other forms and other hocus pocus of religions.

  272. "The biggest proof of this is that there is no evidence of Vedas being human written."

    There is no evidence of Vedas being revealed by God.

  273. Sorry, lightening is translated as electricity by Arya Samaj.

  274. Arya Samaj translations of Vedas are unauthentic, unreliable and pure manipulation of the meanings of Vedic verses to conform the Vedas to modern science. I have got those translations but have only trashed them. For example, thunder is translated as electricity as if the ancient Indians were aware of electricity!

  275. I think, despite all his shortcomings, Dr.Swamy is a better candidate for the post of Prime Minister of India at this juncture. Even L.K.Advani is not as strong as Dr.Swamy when it comes to tackling Islamic menace in India.

  276. Your prayer, portrayed to you as a prayer by a thug/robber by profession. As per him, narrated to him by the creator of all.

    So Muhammad says that Allah told him:

    111.001, 111.002, 111.003, 111.004, 111.005
    “THE POWER OF ABU LAHAB WILL PERISH, AND HE WILL PERISH. HIS WEALTH AND GAINS WILL NOT EXEMPT HIM. HE WILL BE PLUNGED IN FLAMING FIRE, AND HIS WIFE, THE WOOD-CARRIER, WILL HAVE UPON HER NECK A HALTER OF PALM-FIBRE”

    My prayer, as told to me by a simple human being who was not the God’s messenger. Not told to him by the by the creator of all but his own intelligence and consciousness.

    “LORD, I DO NOT WANT WEALTH NOR CHILDREN NOR LEARNING. IF IT BE THY WILL, I SHALL GO FROM BIRTH TO BIRTH; BUT GRANT ME THIS, THAT I MAY LOVE THEE WITHOUT THE HOPE OF REWARD – LOVE UNSELFISHLY FOR LOVE’S SAKE”

    Now people, I seek your opinion. We will also discuss the relevance of Sura Lahab later on.

    Carry on Absurdullah

  277. Indian education system is to be blamed for the brainwashing of Indian Muslims. Our marxist historians distort the history and fanatics exploit that. My muslim colleagues/friends agree with the swamy's points but they also believe that majority of indian muslims are Arabs. :-( See the state of their knowledge in history.

    One of my christian friend(just the2nd generation converted) believes that his ancestors are from greece. huh?

  278. Ok Absurdullah,

    Here we go, I am presenting one of your prayers which you recite everyday and one of my prayers which I recite every day.

    If you agree and others on the forum agree that the prayer which I recite every day is better than your prayer, then you will leave this monstrous religion Islam, ok. ;)

    Be brave.

  279. It is only a bunch of rich Arabs like Sheikhs who have BOUGHT properties in western countries and not all of Arab population.

  280. It is only a bunch of rich Arabs like Sheikhs who have brought properties in western countries and not all of Arab population.

  281. Arya yah ! Thamby, wrong again. They had bought many high-class properties all over the world n become rent-seekers n living on the interests of their huge fixed deposits. They may not be able to finance the jihadists by then. Unless they have squandered a big portion of their money on Jihad n on bribing the western politicians now, they will be poor, Not that stupid, I think.

  282. Don't print the myth, face the facts,  No more lame excuses to fool the American public. Get the hell out of Iraq n Afghanistan. Stop giving millions of USD to Pakistan n Palestine. Giving money to these failed states is like throwing good money into sinking ships.  Now 99% of US citizens are suffering for the mistakes of 1%. The backlashes will be terrible.  CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

  283. To ABDULLAh IHSAN : YOu or no sane person can think of comparing Lord krishna (Lord of love to all the universe ), Read the extensive literature available. Lord Krishna is the supreme personality of GOD head. He created the universe . God can be present every where any time and all powerful. These are the attributes of GOD. 1)Omnipresent,2)omniscient and 3)omnipotent . Krishna is effulgent

  284. To ABDULLAh IHSAN : YOu or no sane person can think of comparing Lord krishna (Lord of love to all the universe ), Read the extensive literature available. Lord Krishna is the supreme personality of GOD head. He created the universe . God can be present every where any time and all powerful. These are the attributes of GOD. 1)Omnipresent,2)omniscient and 3)omnipotent . Krishna is effulgent
    in every aspect. There is no person like krishna in the entire universe, truly. Lord krishna is present in the hearts and minds of all people ,including women. Lord krishna was /is the source of all. Everything emanates from Lord krishna. Yours is foolish,monstrous argument or thinking. Everything belongs to krishna as the lord of universe. Moreover, truthfully, Lord krishna was not interested in lust . His was pure spiritual love. When you gain knowledge ,then you will understand. LOrd Krishna ,as loving ,caring God always appeared to people whenever they asked for HIM . Lord krishna used to play his flute,dance with GOPIS .This is not lust. This love is transcewndental. Not one instance of krishna doing anything immoral or lustful. It was all blissful. Every scholar,thinker,philosopher who has knowledge of Krishna know this.Space is short here to write all history.

    Regarding DRAUPADI , you have to know why she married 5 brothers as husbands. There was true ,compelling reason – In those histories many compelling reasons were present- for example another one is why BHISHMA remained bachelor – because he took oath and so it happened in case of DRAUpadi . It was a case of following DHARMA -a word uttered by Kunti compelled,Draupadi to be bound by dharma.
    Krishna is the lord of UNIVERSE. Every living creature loves HIM and wants to be in His presence – including all women. This is transcendental love and pure spiritual bliss. This is the grand philosophy of Hindu dharma. Union of individual soul with supersoul ( in this case Lord krishna is the goal of all beings ,without exception including all women. Is there any mistory in this? We as humanbeings ,all are longing to be with the LORD of the UNIVERSE- in this case LORD krishna . By
    reading this you will get enlightenment , if you think rationally. You have to watch the movie video "KRISHNA " produced by RAMANAND SAGAR (I think). This is a universal desire.

    Coming back to your Monster MO – first he was not God. He was a pseudo – self proclaimed profiteer- copied everything from christianity,judaism and some preislamic beliefs. Nothing original in MO – the pedo,thief,robber,deceiver,murderer, debaucherer ,slave trader,slavery promoter,rapist,- charges as proved from ISLAMIC books by ALI SINA. Moreover Mo was not GOD. How can you compare him with GOD ?, – source of everything ? Ofcourse ,Mo was a fraud,false profiteer- actually , Mo was the boss of ALLA. This can be proven from QQURRAN – where ALLA tells M oslems to worship MO whenever ALLA mentioned his own ALLA name.ALLA abrogated verses . ALLA created new verses especially for the sake of MO to marry as many women he wants.ALLA gave MO the right and authority to rape women,marry young girls of 6 years, ALLA sanctioned MO to rape women taken as booty when Mo took them as slaves in raids . Mo was vengeful, intolerant,killing,blood thirsty. Remember Mo was not GOD.After reading all this you will go crazy – becoz whatever I wrote here is truth. Mo violated every moral prinjciple – Mo was not even human – MO was demon.

  285. Thank you, Uchiha Itachi – that's a carefully worded & very informative response.
    .
    A. Yes, I'll put in agniveer on my fav-list and yes, I'll start putting my questions that forum.
    B. Your response for the Muslim-Arya Kaffir-Dasyu seems to reinforce my concern regarding the abuse of those verses. This also points to a more deeper & rudimentary question – defining GOOD & BAD.
    .
    Should any rational human being develop his or her own sense of morality – of defining what's good & what's bad? Or, should one look at the Torah, Quran, Vedas or OT – NT or Gospel to understand what's good & bad?
    .
    C. If you indicate that killing of terrorists is condoned in Sanathan Dharma and a "good hindu will kill dasyu – terrorists" – then you need to ask Ali Sina to change his statement "a good Hindu becomes Gandhi". As per Dr. Sina, a good hindu is one like gandhi – and loves non-violence. I've posed many questions to Dr Sina – and he seems unwilling to change his conviction about gandhi being a good-hindu.
    .
    MN

  286. Well, the macaulian education made Hindus ( like Arya anand) disbelievers of their own tradition.
    At the time of Krishna ( roughly 5200 years ago) the earth was filled with Rakshasas ( whose characteristics match with those of Muslims) and Asuras ( people like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mohammad). Krishna unburdened the earth of These evil forces. Krishna being an Avatar (not having ego of I am the body, I am mind, I am intellect, but being constantly aware of sat-chit-ananda), and gopikas being sages reborn, their relationship was pure. Krishna drove their consciousness inwards. Gopikrishna was only eight years old when he killed Kamsa. Krishna never visited Brindavan after that.

  287. @ Arya Anand & Prithvi

    When you guys are done with the discussion, please try to make just one Surah. ;)

  288. @ Arya Anand

    You are changing your statement. You said that was invention, not creation. ;)

  289. Also, the style of composition was taken from somewhere else by Zaid ibn Thabit (the human who compiled the quran) to give it an impression of a collection of verses.
    If you will see, the verses are unnecessarily broken into one liner or two. Until and unless you read the previous some and the following some for most of the verses, it is terribly confusing in offering any meaning to what is being said.

  290. Yes, the whole Quran was not written poetically. Some portion of the Quran is poetic while other part is in prose.

    There so many excellent literary works in classical Tamil and yet they are all human works and are not claimed as divinely inspired. All these literary works talk about ethics, human values, ancient Tamil history, religious beliefs, culture, traditions, management and touch upon almost all aspects of human life.

    For example, there is a world famous Tamil literary work called "Thirukural" composed 2000 years ago by a Tamil saintly poet named Valluvar who is respectfully called Thiruvalluvar. His Kural is respectfully called Thirukural. Each poem is called a Kural. Thirukural comprises 1330 Kurals divided into 10 chapters with each chapter containing 130 Kurals. The speciality is that each Kural is only one and half a line in classical Tamil . All the Kurals are well sentenced and rhythmic and teach about ethics in all walks of life including politics, rulership, management, love, friendship, married life, lovers life, saintly life, valor,etc. Yet, we do not think Thiruvalluvar was a prophet of God and his work is a revelation from God but still it is far more better than Quran in all sense.

    Likewise, When anyone listens to the reciting of Devaaram or Thruvaasagam, he/she will definitely be moved with its rhythmic pleasant sound. Their verses were so well written in classical Tamil that anyone is attracted to their phoenitics. Yet, they are only human works and not divinely authored.

    Can any Muslim produce any such literary work?

  291. It means everything the auntie wrote are very un-Muhammad.

  292. Done that, auntie. You didn't read it. Now, I'm waiting your response to that.

  293. This so called challenge provides another contradiction from Muhammad. It's clear that Muhammad wanted to approach this from poetic view but in other verse he dismissed Quran as the book of poetry. The old wold kept making mistake here.

    While using Tamil style, you can challenge the auntie to make something similar. Let' s see if she can do that. Reverse pattern often makes the claimer as an idiot.

  294. Yes. Rhythm doesn’t matter. Even lunatics can speak in rhymes. There are many ancient Tamil literary works that were written in rhymes and with good meanings unlike Quran which contains so many incomplete sentences purportedly to make them sound rhythmic. Quran is a silly effort of a failed poet who pitifully tried to compose Quran poetically.

    There are many literary works in classical Tamil which far exceed Quran in every aspect of poetry and literature that contain many meaningful good teachings. I can cite "Devaaram, Thiruvaasagam, Aganaanooru, Puranaanooru,etc. There is a phrase in Tamil " Thiruvaasagthukku Urugaadhaar Oru Vaasagathukkum Urugaadhaar" which means "Those who are not melted(moved) by Thiruvaasagam are those who are not melted by any sentence/phrase..

    Quran cannot even come near competition with classical Tamil literary works.

  295. The problem with Abdullah ihsan is that she has not evolved yet as a full human to understand logic or she is a full human but a shameless hypocrite and pretends to not understand logic. Even a five year old child cannot talk as illogically as this moron.

  296. 1. Circular logic and unproven belief.

    2. Wrong biology.

    I read long ago and cited it here but you didn't really read mine. There is a big problem in Q 23:14 which states the creation process which no human can imitate. No human can do the process in Q 23:14 but it states the best creators nonetheless. It doesn't matter how you twist the meaning of khalaq you still can't compare it to anything. Created from something doesn't solve this problem because it's still god's territory so mentioning "best of …" is a blunder just like my football parable.

    Pay attention, auntie. The problem can only be solved if Allah mentions the activity that human can do, like gardening, building house, making jewelry etc. The second problem I presented is that "no human can actually khalaq (no matter what form it is) in the Quran". See the problem here?

    You didn't even read all my post.

  297. The audience auntie. You didn't pay attention to the answer. Don't just haha and repeat the comment (reminds me of someone). The actress and the audience are different things. One is paid and the other enjoys it. Don't forget that present society still dominated by men. Women mostly follow men's rule.

    Funny logic: Just because there are women who play sport means general women like and enjoy sport. Is this fact? How many fallacies left in your brain, auntie?

    You can take survey yourself. Easy, just ask surrounding people about it. The ordinary women. It's a proven fact that women don't think about sex everyday. Are you living in a forest?

    How about stop cherry picking my post and answer all questions here including my advise to you? My counter question about porn still intact, you know. Will you torture or kill your daughter?

    Behave like an adult and provide proof that general women enjoys it like eating snacks.

  298. I’m smiling watching your ignorant post about surah. I know you have reading problem but this is too far. Why don’t you find mistake in my surah? Can you?

    Don't just repeat it, answer it. xD

  299. And I did the challenge and you didn’t respond back. It’s easy to make surah like that. The real problem is the truth in it. No surah in Quran reveals any divine knowledge.

    Some legitimate critics found that Quran is false and man made. They even found the challenge to be ridiculous and didn’t prove anything at all as I’ve proven to you. It’s a weird and futile challenge. Nobody takes it seriously.

    You wrote, “have you heard anyone responding to the challenges?”

    Easy, Google it and you’ll find plenty. You also didn’t read my surah about it. What’s wrong, having memory loss, auntie?

    My turn, have heard anyone responding my challenge about science in Islam? I wonder why you muslims don’t dare to do it? This is the real one that no one can answer, unlike the surah challenge.

    Rhythm doesn’t matter. I can listen to good song and not understanding the lyric but that makes me clueless about the meaning of the song. I often hear muslim chants it but found nothing special but weird rhythm. From the sound, it’s no good, from the content, it’s false.
    xD;)

  300. When oil reserves in Muslim countries get depleted that will happen within 50 years from now, Muslim, especially Arab countries, will lose their economic power and political clout that they enjoy at present at international level and the rich Arab countries will become poor countries and their population will starve due to their unskilled labour force and lack of education. They cannot finance Jihad but at this time Turkey will have become very strong both economically and politically and will lead the Islamic world and even revive its lost Caliphate and start Jihad against infidel nations to win new lands for Islam. Many Muslims though not all will join the alliance or union of Muslim countries headed by Turkey. We should be prepared to face with such a situation.

  301. Missing the point, auntie. You should compare that deed with scriptural rule and law plus the position of that particular story to the Hindus religiously and morally. Can you cite the fact and law?

    Can it be called important? Worldly problem? I did ask you this. xD

  302. Big difference doesn’t matter because fact and truth is one. The existence of god is no more than speculation and subject to imagination. It depends on how you define “god”. It’s very strange that you actually cling to the false belief of “god” and call yourself a non denier of “god”. This itself is called denying “god”. No matter what your belief is, the fact cannot be changed and this world’s situation stays the same so the result should be the same if you know what I mean.

    Auntie, he’s not feeling self righteous. He’s just state the fact from your own religion. If Islam is bad don’t blame the critic, let alone another religion. Fix it until no one protest it and no more problem created by religion. The beliefs are silly because it is silly so call a spade for a spade. Sure, it doesn’t sound silly in the past because human was ignorant but now, any one who thinks that god is in the sky and cloud above us is silly.

    Is silliness good reason to criticize religion? On the certain level is good but on general is not. It is too weak to just bash religion based on some stupid and silly beliefs. As long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, it’s not lethal. So, why bother?

    The attitude of the critic is irrelevant with Muhammad’s deed. I have told you this many times. In fact, all critics cannot be compared to Muhammad because they don’t do what he did, like mass murder, assassination, rape, slavery etc. From this alone you can see that all critics are better than him. Even if Sina’s way of life is somewhat bad (I doubt he has times for that) you cannot erase the evil in Islam because good people can say the same about it. No matter who says it (thieves or noble people), a murderer is a murderer. Don’t tell me that the murderer can change to saint just because a thief calls him that?

    You keep parroting about refuted bravery while you haven’t answered my questions regarding Muhammad and muslim’s bravery. Tell me, since the condition was different and no real threat came to Muhammad then why should he afraid? Why didn’t his followers protect him? Why did he tell people in Taif to keep it a secret? Why did the first violence come from muslim? Why did the first blood of war come from muslim? Why did he assassinate people? Was he afraid of their critics? Couldn’t he refute it intelligently? Why there was no divine solution here? All I see is barbaric one.

    What’s wrong? Now, this is your real problem dealing with logical argument. When you are faced with critic who’s using modern human value you should answer with the same tool. You have to prove that your religion is innocent. Imagine in court, you don’t defend your client but go on rambling that other people have mistake too. Does that solve your allegation? Does that free your client? Crime doesn’t get erased by another crime not to mention the irrelevant lesser crime which has nothing to do with this particular case. The urgency and reality is the standard to judge here.

    Your friend’s religion is irrelevant (you can’t befriend kafir actually). In here, you face the real deal, real test about Islam. There are only 2 options here, Islam is right or wrong. There is no middle way. Tell me, which one is your answer?

    I doubt that they are having doubt. They just want to reform their old value so that it can adapt today’s standard. Beside, many reasons and interpretations can be made to make bad part to disappear, like misinterpretation, addition, mistranslation etc. If they have doubt they should leave not change it. You should aware that in Islam it exists too but failed. That’s why reforming Islam is impossible.

    So, if other religions have bad part does that mean Islam is good or Islam is just another failed and outdated human religion? Which one? Don’t forget that Islam stands alone on creating global problem. That’s why this site attacks Islam only. Islam is the only religion that still practices barbaric law, discrimination based on religion, terror, world domination, misogyny etc. How about other religions? Can you give just one fact to make it urgent so that Sina can criticize too? This you didn’t answer.

    Bottom line is, other religions evolve while Islam does not. Finish this first.

  303. It was already done and you can have one if you google.

  304. I think it has already started to crumble now. Look at the Bloody Chaos n Mess in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq n the many ME countries. Shooting, killing n bombing are the orders of the day. When will it stop ? Till Doomsday ? Yes, because they only way they know how to settle disputes is by the guns n bombs.

  305. It’s myth and no rule about it in present day, auntie. I challenge you to cite fact and verse. All you can do is clinging to this irrelevant story and myth which has no connection with reality.

    Polyandry done by Drupadi is not a problem in present days. It's just one of many myths and old stories which people doesn't really care. Can you show me the urgency of this particular deed? Can you show me the law in India about this right now? If the insider can solve it why should we, as an outsider, bother it?

    On the contrary, Islam can't be solved by insider, in fact, they just don't solve it but justify it. This is problem, a real one. And since Islam is aggressive unlike Hinduism, the outsider will be involved, sooner or later.

  306. Go here to see what our ancient india was before the thousand plus years.

    http://spiritual-minds.com//AmazingScience.htm

  307. About hinduism. Hinduism is not based on any doctrine. Its evolutionary dharm. It doesn’t fit in the definition of religion. Hinduism is collective thought of many thoughtful brains. Our rishis and sages tried to study the life and nature in systematic and scientific manner and put them in various forms. And moreover they doesn’t cover single expect of life. They cover many subjects. That can be understood by what advancement ancient india made in different fields. Its roots are vedas and upnishads. There are many more but either they got extinct or corrupted by social thugs and by being in subjection for many centuries. All that social evils evolved during this subjection period. Moreover our no book compels us to take them literally or follow them blindly. Moreover our dharma clearly state that follow truth reject falsehood. Follow what is right reject evil. Therefore we have been always ready to accept anything better. Thus we have evolved. We have rejected many social evils. We always welcome anything new and positive. This is process of development and advancement. But that is not the case with islam. It had confind within a limit and it doesn’t allow to evolve neither to accept anything better. What is written in their doctrine is full and final for eternatiy. This is height of hypocrisy. Therefore it couldn’t come out of barbarism of 7th century arabia. There is natural rule for existence. That is called adoptation. If something cannot adopt has to cease during the course of time. The fate islam will face sooner or later. Let the oil of ararbs be finished. The day this happens, islam will start to crunble.

  308. You cannot make any historical account as a case of sanctioned in religion. Hinduism doesn’t allow either polygamy or polyandry. Therfore you cannot cite many references. Neither they are considered as idle for society. But that is not with islam. Polygamy is sanctioned in islam and your belowed prophet has set example to follow. So try to see this difference. There may be many ill things practiced by society but they have no religious ground. So you cannot make a case against any religion for that ill practice. That is social problem and that can be eradicated by making laws or banning. But what about the evils sanctioned by religion. Islam is full of such evil religious bigotries. Moreover islam doesn’t allow for modification as per time need so this must be trashed in the dustbin of history. If not , don’t worry sooner or later it will die its own death with increase of education and awareness.

  309. Basically the followers of those religions are atheists or deists who just practise the rituals and dogmas of those religions, the "muslims" could do the same but such a religion would not be islam or at least as we know it.

  310. There are many silly and even stupid teachings in many ancient religions. Fortunately the followers of most these religions have put them aside and don\’t practice them. Sati is even outlawed in India. The point is that in Islam the stupid taechings cannot be put aside. Islam does not alow itself to any change.

    Another point is that you should really stop looking in flaws in other religoins to justify the eivlness of Islam. All Muslims do this. All of them. As soon as we point out something wrong in Islam they start listing the flaws in other religions. This is logical fallacy. Let us say all religions are false, Does this justify to believe in Islam even if it is false?

  311. correction:
    vedas indeed call for the destruction of terrorists/harming the innocent etc.

    is

    vedas indeed call for the destruction of terrorists/harmers of innocent etc.

  312. Hello brother Duratma! I am also a guy like hindu2011 whose lives have been touched by agniveer like so many muslims see light here in Mr.Sina's site. I am afraid to be seen like one of the half-literate apologetics of IRF for zakir naik who get confounded when a true scholar here talks back, :) Nevertheless I will try to answer you based on what little knowledge I have of vedic principles as I learned from agniveer.
    Problem no.1 , very few hindus(yes, I know the word is not te correct term for sanatana dharma) have managed to interpret the vedas rationally. Arya samaj has put the vedas to the test of logic,rationality and morality like no other. So, hindu websites may have a lot of their own interpretations uplaoded in true spirit as to what they beleive is correct, which is why arya samaj challenges all such to get to the correct interpretation. I suppose aryasamajjamnagar would be more or less correct.
    Now to dasyus.
    refer http://agniveer.com/839/vedas-dasyu-hinduism/
    vedas indeed call for the destruction of terrorists/harming the innocent etc. Budhism when it rejected vedic teachings could not defend itself from the invading barbarians resulting in death of innocent monks.Also, Gandhi(whom I suspect you are no fan of :P ) in his 'ahimsa' model and 'showing of other cheek' led to the suffering of thousands of innocent hindus at the hands of 'dasyu' britsh/moplahs. Summarily : A n orthodox Brahmin' who does puja to his deity all day and then kills an innocent muslim(who wishes no harm for anyone) is a dasyu and will not be tolerated in any civilised society. On the other hand, a muslim like ashfaqullah khan, a xtian like mother teresa, an atheist like Mr.Sina are aryans because of their selfless noble deeds ! I hope this answers :they want to protect the "Arya" from the "Dasyu" – just that to them, Muslims of Pakistan are Arya and the Kaffirs of Hindustan are "Dasyu". You see the problem with the mantra? It has the potential to be mis-used & abused – not much dissimilar to how Mullahs & Imams brain-wash the likes of Kasab." and "These suras & ayats (In my naive & not-so-respected opinion) is not much dissimilar to the Rig-Vedic mantra you described. "
    as regards astrology, vedas donot sanction such superstitions. So that website may be a pro-hindu one : a krishna/ram worshipping site is also pro-hindu but doesnt fall under the category of vedas
    "And I require you to define the term "an authentic Vedic site";" no definition but agniveer, satyagni, vedmandir, though I would rather go with the 1st one. charvaka- these are the atheists who have rejected the vedas,right? As far as I have understood, based on their deeds, their souls will move up or down in their next birth based on whether deeds are noble-selfless/bad-selfish. Acts good: closer he gets to breaking the chain and attaining salvation. acts-bad : next life learn more as needed by the soul.
    point F: no the word hindu doesnt exist.
    and as to your few queries on whether the dude indra gets pissed off if he is not getting the devotion he needs, http://agniveer.com/5320/vedas-hatred/ (refer part 1 and 2 since you said you have a lot of other claims too) .
    Anyway brother, since you said your intention is to learn more and correct your convictions if necessary, why dont you come to agniveer and lets discuss? That way I too would be able to learn as other commentors will correct me if I am wrong. So we can stop hijacking Mr Sina's article and give it the due attention it deserves!!

    btw if anyone wants to know about anfal in india,
    here : http://satyagni.com/5258/who-are-indian-muslims/
    & http://satyagni.com/5274/indian-muslims-story-of-

  313. @ Ishwar

    Hi. ;)

    That's not my point. The point is that Mr. sina has had not guts to touch the issues about unique marriages in religions other than Islam. When you say it's a myth and so is that type of marriage, then google 'polyandry' and find it for your self who still practice, how long they have been doing, and what has long motivated them to do it.

    It is not about Drupadi living only one at time for certain period, the question is whether or not she was sexually engaged with each and every one of the Pandawa. As Mr. Sina has brought incest to denigrate Islam, then let's hear what he will say about this….

    thanks

  314. @ Arya Anand

    Read first, Mr Anand

  315. @ Prithvi

    No.

    I am smiling when I read your comment a bout basic college graduate can produce a better Quran.

    then TRY to make one Surah and publish it. You don't have to appear in public if you don't feel like. But don't forget to tell the world that it is Prithvi who has written a Surah like thereof in the Quran.

    Please.. Don't just say it, prove it.

  316. ha ha ha

    if women are repulsive against porn, they would not be involved in it for whatsoever reasons.

  317. @ John K

    Exactly what I was trying to say John. I also think that Allah is the best creators to have created creatures that can create like us humans. But Mr Anand insisted that the words used should not be 'to create' but 'to invent'. So what will you say? humans can only invent or humans are also capable of creating?

  318. Only a brain dead moron can talk like that.
    I have seen muslims tell me that the quran is the unchanged word of god and when I used to ask them back as to how can you say that, they use to respond by saying it is written in the quran.
    Humans did not learn Arabic in order to find faults in the quran. Your god and especially your robber hero Muhammad came second to the humans in the evolution of this language.
    Further, you should know your religion better, whether to compile the quran in the language of the pagans was a human decision and was done by a human. Else, your Muhammad used to speak Persian also which was a far better evolved language.

    I can only smile at your foolishness when you actually think that no one can come back with a better work than the quran.

  319. The above website makes good readings for John K n Grace.

  320. You are a moron. You don’t know though draupadi was married with five brothers, she lived with only one at time for certain period of time. Moreover what do wanna prove by taking an historical account? They were neither gods nor prophets. So its unworthy of mentioning of any ordinary character to compare with you prophet. And mahabharta is a simply a war history. This iS not a religious scripture.

  321. @ Arya Anand

    Don't just say it Mr. Anand.

    Please respond to the challenge of the Quran to make one Surah of the like thereof.

    When you are done. Please publish it, and let us see and read it.

  322. @ Prithvi

    "Go through the quran yourself, a basic college graduate can write a better quran."

    There are verses in the Quran that challenge those in doubt in it to make Surahs like the those in it..

    Some Islamic haters have learned the Arabic to find its weaknesses, and to do so, they carefully learned the Arabics, even some become it's translators. When they went through it, they couldn't have missed the challenging verses.

    Now, as they have even come to learning a foreign language for such purpose, do you think they remain non-reactive and leave the challenges unanswered?

    have you heard anyone responding to the challenges?

    Or you want to do it perhaps?

    You can do it in english if you want but why don't you write in Arabic and let us hear how it sounds. ;)

  323. Of course this is only a theoretical possiblity. If it carries on as it there are only 3 possible outcomes 1)The jews will expel or exterminate the arabs. 2)The arabs will expel or exterminate the jews or 3)They will wipe each other out. No sane and decent person wants to see any of those 3 possiblitys, so we should propose a peacefull rational soulution to this conflict.

  324. @ Prithvi

    Barathayudha is a story about war of dharma against adharma?

    Was it real incident of was it myth?

    I am sure you meant to say that the Pandawa were the dharma people, then can you explain whether it is an acceptable norm or not for a woman to be married to five blood brothers at the same time?

  325. @ Arya anand

    1. Iqra bismirrabbika lladzi khalaq

    Read: In the Name of your Lord Who created,

    2. Khalaqal insaana min 'alaq

    Createth man from a clot.

    I told you there are different verbs in Arabics that mean ' to create something from' and 'to originate or to create something out of nothing'.

    You didn't read that?

    So the Quran verses you quoted for me truly don't say there are other gods. ;)

  326. You are shallow and bigoted. You obviously have no exposure to the best minds of Western Civilization.

  327. I've think we've been together on this site long enough for you to see how much I am attacked by Hindus and atheists.

  328. "A far more important question which comes up is that when the quran (unaltered, complete book of guidance) itself was compiled for the first time after the death of Muhammad, with a human hand, what was the need of compiling the hadith afterwards then?"

    And of course how can such a book be a copy of a perfect Quran in heaven. It is also known that some Suras were lost because those who memorized them were killed in battle. That was part of the incentive to gather the Suras before more were lost.

    Also, how can a book obviously composed to meet local needs and situations be a copy of an eternal book in heaven. Surely such a book would encompass eternal time before and after Muhammad.

  329. You are in for a big surprise when you die. Try reading accounts of near-death experiences and who they see when they go through the tunnel of light.

    [Hint - it's not Allah or Muhammad]

  330. We will see what happens. There's a lot more variables affecting the facts on the ground now.

  331. Even if all your arguments are right the best you can get to is a binational solution thats it, which looking back at the arugments for the various peacefull solutions to this conflict i now think is the best one. So consequently that is my position on this subject from now on.

  332. @ Agracean

    Jesus is not my Lord, Miss Agr. :)

  333. When we complete our schools, we end up reading a minimum of 10 books for just one subject and go onto to make and read 10s of others for the area of our interest and specialization, and it is precisely the missing attributes of the quran in terms of the social and political structure of a system and country, governance, human relations which necessitated the need of compiling the hadith.

    The fact of the matter is that the quran is an incomplete book even from the point of basic human life and relations, forget about governance and the social and political structure of a country or system and any god who sends us a book which first of all is dependent on human hands for compilation, human brains to expand, and incomplete in any sense, CANNOT BE THE BOOK FROM GOD.

    Go through the quran yourself, a basic college graduate can write a better quran.

  334. Ali Sina quotes from both the hadith as well as the quran when applicable. You should read some of his articles and show it to your friend.
    http://alisina.org/i-learned-the-truth-from-the-q

    You are right; the only source to know about the socio-political conditions of mecca during that time and also the character of Muhammad is the hadith. Even the earliest biography or sira as they call it (of Muhammad) is written on the basis of the hadith chiefly.

    A far more important question which comes up is that when the quran (unaltered, complete book of guidance) itself was compiled for the first time after the death of Muhammad, with a human hand, what was the need of compiling the hadith afterwards then?

    Cont.

  335. Muhammad promised unlimited sex with Houris, rivers of wine, meat, fruits, ever flowing rivers and gardens, mansions, couches, silk clothes,etc in his Islamic paradise to attract people to his cult.

  336. This is because, as you said, Muhammad did not know history of regions beyond the surroundings of Arabia. It is a proof that Quran is the word of Muhammad, not the word of Almighty God.

  337. Both Yahweh and Allah are psychopath narcissists. There is not much of difference between Allah and Yahweh when it come to ordering killing of innocent people especially Non-believers.

  338. Christians have a look here. Jesus is pure myth. He never existed. Here read about initial christianity.

    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

  339. Now come to islamic paradise. Just compare the the conditions of 7th century arabia with islamic paradise. They are opposite to eachother. What ararbs never saw and imagined, muhammad simply promised that. This was bribe of muhammad to the ararbs to join his cult. With applying simple commonsense, whole islam is exposed.

  340. Correction-

    How could he
    have mentioned what he never
    knew?

  341. This site gives an impression that it is run by Christians and for Christianity because whenever some negative comments on Christianity or Bible are posted, minus points are given though the comments are logically correct and true and anything said in praise of Christianity, though illogical, untrue, is awarded plus points.

    I think minus point means undesired/wrong and plus point desired/right.

  342. Muslims and their quran claims that god sent so many thousands of prophets but mentioned only scriptures of jews and christians. Why? What happened to other books? Why the knowledge of allah was not more than muhammad? Muhammad claimed prophecy at the age of 40 and jews and christians lived there. So muhammad mentioned their books in the name of allah. Here islam is exposed hahahaha. Idiots don’t have common sense. My question is that if allah sent so many prophets why he couldn’t tell names of other books except jews and christians who were already in the knowledge of muhammad. Human have lived on earth since thousands of years but quran has history of only 5000 years. Why allah couldn’t mentioned even older history? The reason is muhammad is himself allah. What he new around him, he mentioned. How couldn’t he have mentioned what he never knew?

  343. My thoughts are same as yours.

  344. These abrahmic brains can never evolve. They are not allowed to do that. They are nothing but frog in well who thinks the well is whole world and always remained confind. They have no logics only they have claims. They say my superstition is correct but yours is false. The fact is that they never explored therefore they are shallow in spirituality and philosophy.

  345. Well, the law is the law. The title to Palestine is in Israel's name.

  346. See Dr. Berlinski on cosmology and the Old Testament.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyxUwaq00Rc&fe

  347. Good job. Muslims who doubt Dr. Sina are uninformed or lying.

  348. "A man of exalted character comes up with a quran.
    A robber/rapist comes up with a quran.

    Now who would you automatically and by instinct start listening to or agree to give your ear.

    Would you or I or anyone vote for any politicians whose hypocrisy comes out in the open, the answer is a straight “NO”, then why is the rule different here? Why are Human Brain dead here? "

    That's why Islam is enforced by the sword. Muhammad worked 13 years to spread Islam by preaching and gained less than 1000 followers.

  349. "The basic underlying motive in all the cases has always been just one – EGO MASSAGE and QUEST FOR POWER."

    That fits with Dr. Sina's study of Muhammad and Obama's narcissism.

  350. It also means kaffirs are better than Muslims because we can produce things and invent things where Muslims cannot, so they are dependent on us for everything.

  351. Why speak against the British period? They helped bring modern efficiencies to India. I also recently read about an Indian prince who proudly served with the British army.

  352. That's okay. Double opportunity to mark thumbs down!

  353. I suppose schools in your country don't teach Creative Writing.

    Is your country also so Islamized that schools don't teach art, drawing, and music?

  354. It also explains the recent photo of Muslim men fascinated by female mannequins in a lingerie shop in Saudi Arabia.

  355. It means Muslims are taught by Muhammad to be good to fellow Muslims and harsh to unbelievers.

  356. it is very clear

  357. what does it mean

  358. You seem to be an Arya Samajist.

  359. Yes. We oppose Islam only because it seeks expansion and domination over the entire world mainly by means of violence and terrorism. Otherwise, we will leave it as yet another primitive man made religion like all other religions.

  360. Muslims can even recite this Surah in their daily prayers which is nothing but curse on a man and his wife who were dead very long before. For Muslims, cursing others is also their prayer!

  361. It is a very good post by Ishwar.

  362. One of my muslims friend visited this site..he said.."Ali Sina seems to be an European agent..He is spreading hatred against Islam to discourage people"..I replied,"Mate,well then give answers of his questions"..He said"Mr. Ali SIna is writing the verses about Muhammad from Hadiths and we don't completely trust these texts".I replied,"then how come you know things about Muhammad o.0"..he said,"he said by Quran"..I replied,"then why you claim hadiths as a religious text"…Guys what are your thoughts about it..Do you think Muhammad's depiction in hadiths is authentic..And ya i accept i am not a very enlightened Atheist but i want to learn more and more..I am just 16 years old..

  363. Yes, humans are creators in the sense a man makes a pot out of clay. Here there must already be clay to make a pot. Man has not created clay but it was out there for him to make use of it to create a pot. This is just reshaping the natural elements.

    In Hindu philosophy, this is how God creates the universe(s) in his infinite cycle of creations and destruction. Hinduism says Paramatma(Soul of God), Jeevatma(Souls of all living beings) and Prakriti(Nature) are eternal, without beginning and therefore without end. God does his creation only by using the nature i.e he just reshapes the nature which is eternally out there.

    But the process of creation mentioned in Quran or Bible is not this type of creation. The God of Quran or Bible claims to create things out of nothing. So humans cannot be considered creators in the true sense of Quran or Bible.

  364. MEDITATING WITH A WITHOUT A SYMBOL AND THEN BEING GOOD TO OTHERS CANNOT BE COMPARED

    WITH

    CONGREGATING IN A HOUSE MEANT FOR PRAYERS –
    IN YOUR PRAYERS RECITE THE “SURA LAHAB” – MEANING, CURSE A MAN AND HIS WIFE DEAD FOR 1400 HUNDREAD YEARS –
    AND THEN COME BACK , PICK UP A SWORD AND THEN KILL AN INNOCENT IN THE NAME OF GOD.

  365. Hinduism is different/oldest/the best – and the only reason why I call it the best is because of the freedom it offers to its adherents.
    I have always said before and would repeat it here; there is only one religion in this world which has taught humanity the true meaning of the word democracy. We pray to hundreds of Gods yet we all remain a Hindu. We pray or not – yet we all remain a Hindu. We visit the temples or not – yet we all remain a Hindu.

    AND ONLY IF HUMANS WERE TO GO DEEP INTO THE TRUE MEANING AND FOLLOW DILIGENTLY THE CONCEPT OF “KARMA”, EVIL FROM THE SOCIETY WOULD CEASE TO EXIST.
    IN THAT CASE HUMANS WOULD ONLY FOCUS ON THIER ACTIONS, CORRECT THEIR ACTIONS, NEVER BE EVIL TO ANYONE ELSE, HUMANS WOULD ALWAYS BE GOOD AND HELPFUL TOWARDS OTHERS, MORE IMPORTANTLY – NOT EVEN BLAME ANYONE ELSE FOR THEIR SITUATIONS, IF NEGATIVE.

    Cont.

  366. Jesus Christ may not be the son of God as per you but what is more important was his character. He preached non-violence even in the light of immense persecution. Never lifted the sword, helped others and preached the golden rule. These qualities are enough or should be enough for the man to be respected,

    Unlike a highway robber/rapist/thug/ whose only contributions to the society are evils in the form of fear amongst humans, hatred, false sense of superiority, hollow customs and rituals.

    There is however one concept which Muhammad invented before anyone else and that is concept of Mercenaries. If you will read the Hadith, the chief motivator was money for conversion to Islam in the early days and it is clearly mentioned in the words of the converts “I was able to own this farm after converting to Islam”.

    Cont.

  367. A man of exalted character comes up with a quran.
    A robber/rapist comes up with a quran.

    Now who would you automatically and by instinct start listening to or agree to give your ear.

    Would you or I or anyone vote for any politicians whose hypocrisy comes out in the open, the answer is a straight “NO”, then why is the rule different here? Why are Human Brain dead here?

    Cont.

  368. A very basic thought needs to make home in every human not for anyone else’s but their own benefit and confidence or self-belief because that will have a far reaching positive effect on the overall mindset of the humans.

    The thought is: HOW IS POSSIBLE THAT BEFORE LET US SAY “A PROPHET” CAME UP TO GUIDE HUMANS IN WHICHEVER MANNER, HUMANS WERE STILL BEING BORN, THEY EXCEEDED IN DISCOVERIES AND SCIENCES, THE EARTH WITNESSED SOME OF THE GREATEST EMPIRES AND THE HUMAN RACE WITNESSED SOME OF THE GREATEST MEN & WOMEN THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN?

    You or I can write a much better quran (if you have read the quran). So how do you make humans listen to your work or quran, simply put, how do you generate the interest in your work, why would people listen to you or your work, this is point where in our individual personal character comes in and plays it’s part?

    Cont.

  369. Religion is the manifestation of the Divinity already existing in Man – Swami Vivekananda (India)

    It is so heartening to see great people like you all discuss something in a constructive manner, we all would learn so much.

    I agree with Rahul and Hindu2011 on most of the point except one for which I have a different opinion and I will discuss it below.

    It is precisely the fear of the unknown, the unseen and the social and economic conditions of the under privileged which has been the focus of the self-proclaimed messiahs the world has seen. The basic underlying motive in all the cases has always been just one – EGO MASSAGE and QUEST FOR POWER.

    Cont.

  370. Don't you read my rebuttal about creators? Why are you repeating the same questions 4 times?

  371. poisionless scorpio
    Friday 7 October 2011, 6:34 am

    Apparently Scorpio brother is conveniently ignoring my comments. Who told you vedas were "written" "before creation" by "supernatural" sages? Dont talk nonsense if you cant back it up with proper evidence.
    No hindu can "prove scientifically" that vedas were not written down by some "super-dudes" when they were bored some time in 2500 bc. however, if you are really interested in knowing about origin of vedas, here:
    http://agniveer.com/5190/origin-of-vedas-their-in

    also, bro, it really doesnt matter to a hindu if krishna and rama are myths or not, because their devotion to God far exceeds such thinking.and thousands of schools of thought exist within Hinduism, from krishna worshipping iskon tradition to advaita and dvaita philosophies.Many of them are contradictory, and unlike islam, where it is my way or the highway, these schools of thought exist peacefully together.

    Personally speaking, they(krishna and rama)are not myths. They were ordinary mortals who became such heros for their valor and wisdom that down the folk tales they became God.Sorry this pisses you off so much.

    Anyway, since this is Mr.Sina's website and this an article on islam, and since you seem to be a scholar of vedas, why dont you post your allegations on agniveer/satyagni/vedmandir? Lets see if you are a ctrl C ctrl V guy or someone who is serious. Cheerios !!

  372. It's about the audience, not the star. The stars can enter that for many reasons but not always with consent. It can be economic reason too.

    Most women don't watch porn because sex is not their ghost..

  373. Auntie: madness return. Having bad dream at night. :p^_^B)

  374. Banning any info to sex can lead to watching porn too. This is what Muhammad couldn't solve.

  375. Yeah, the only revenue he earned was spoil of war. I found it very odd that the creator of universe couldn't give him an idea to earn money, at least to feed his followers. This would be intelligent thing to do and prove his divinity. The positive thing is that it's better than performing miracle and can be tracked to this age.

    Allah surely needs my advise. ^_^

  376. Triple posting. Getting restless, auntie? xD

  377. Double posting. ;)

  378. What's wrong, auntie? Having quick change of mind about the best creators? :|

  379. Yes humans are creators. Your comments in this forum are the creation of your mind. Humans create art, culture, civilizations, discover science and create technologies. Everything you see around you are mostly human creation, not just your computer but even the fruit that you eat is created by man. Have you see wild grapes? http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_lo

  380. @Scorpio

    Because majority of hindus do not even know what Vedas are. Believe or not this is why they upload any translation of Vedas regardless who it has been translated by. Hinduism mostly follows Puranas Ramayan Mahabharat today, but they regard Vedas to be the highest, but only use Vedas in background since they are so ancient. Only a small group like Arya Samaj follows Vedas, and this is why they defeated countless muslims in debates. In fact no muslim was ever able to defeat Arya Samaj scholars.

    The best site to learn about Vedas is Agniveer.com. Go there if you dare and I promise you that u will not regret.

  381. poisionless scorpio
    Thursday 6 October 2011, 8:11 pm

    lol, I suspected you were copy pasting from hate-hindu sites,and this proves it. You have no idea of hinduism, do you? who told you upanishads are revealed scriptures (sruti) ?" vedas were supposed to be written before creation" ..lol.. unlike the islamic concept of god not being able to protect his own scriptures prior to quran, the vedas are preserved perfectly by means of a lot of techniques of permutations since its inception. if you disagree with this based on 'some' muslim scholar's research, please read the comments section of that bloggers site for an answer.

  382. hello brother scorpio. There are hundreds of allegations against vedas. agniveer site clears these misconceptions.( I suspect you already know about it). here is the reply to your post: http://agniveer.com/5320/vedas-hatred/

    anyway, unlike the fanatic islam, the hindus have the sanity to realize that if indeed these are verses that promote hatred, reject it outright and follow only the good teachings. because vedas are not about blind belief but contemplation and exploration of ideas.
    peace, brother !

  383. When I said they were believed to have been written before creation..I was refering to the believers (hindus).Of course non-hindus will find that absurd but the believers think it's rational.

    Take a look at hindu2011's comment…
    "…Rama Krishna are not myths, because today there is scienfific evidence that proves they existed, for krishna his underwater city, and for rama the bridge he built from india to lanka."

  384. My translations are not wrong.You're in denial.Tell me why has practically every hindu website uploaded these translations if theyare so incorrect?

  385. Yes humans are capable of creating. The comments that you make are your creation. They are the products of your thoughts which are your creation. Cultures and civilizations, arts and science are all human creations.

  386. No myth says I am a myth don\’t believe in me. It takes a rational person can determine something is a myth or not. Most of Hinduism is myth. Take the example of what you wrote, \”The Vedas were believed to have been written before creation by rishis (supernatural sages)\” Is this statement rational? Before the createion there was nothing, Not even atoms were formed. All that happened after the big bang. Is the belief in suprnatural rational?

  387. @Scorpio

    yes, like all the islamic turk greek invaders, even the britishers were responsible for our degradation as well. Rama Krishna are not myths, because today there is scienfific evidence that proves they existed, for krishna his underwater city, and for rama the bridge he built from india to lanka.

    Hinduism is the divine religion but like islam, you are not forced to believe in it, it is purely ur will. And there is no such thing like sharia law that if someone converts out of it, you get killed.

    The only revealed scriptures are Vedas. Upanishads are either commentaries of Vedas or portions of Vedas. But the only divine scriptures are Vedas. Puranas, Ramayan, Manu, Mahabharat are all epics.

  388. @Scorpio

    listen, either you got these verses from islamic sites, who have no knowledge how to translate Vedas, and purposely translate Vedas in a bad way to defame Vedas since they are jealous about them, or you picked up works of western idologists whose translations are crap.

    read those verses which you quoted in the proper translation which can be found here.
    http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org

    and read the sanskrit versions, and if you dont understand take some help from a local guru or something

  389. In Vedic Dharma, you can refuse to believe in Vedas, you can even hate God if you want, you can disbelieve in him, and still not get punished,"

    Where in the Vedas does say that you are allowed to reject or even hate God?I've only discovered the opposite.
    Rig Veda 10:CLX:4 He looks with Ioving favour on the mortal who, like a rich man, pours for him the Soma.
    Maghavan in his bended arm supports him: he slays, unasked, the men who hate devotion.

    Atharva Veda 4:30:5I bend the bow for Rudra that his arrow may strike and slay the hater of devotion.I rouse and order battle for the people, and I have penetrated Earth and Heaven.

    Rig Veda 7:93:5 When two great hosts, arrayed against each other, meet clothed with brightness, in the fierce encounter.Stand ye beside the godly, smite the godless; and still assist the men who press the Soma

  390. In which Hindu texts does it say Krishna is a myth.In fact Hindus blame the British for labeling their beliefs "Hindu Mythology".
    Hindus believe there are many realities and Krishna,Hanuaman,Rama,et al resides in those metaphysical realms.

    Hinduism is not believed to be a divine revelation like Islam"
    Maybe not like Islam exactly but they do have revelations called Sruti which mainly consists of the Vedas and Upanishads.The Vedas were believed to have been written before creation by rishis (supernatural sages)

  391. @ El Padrino

    "Most women are naturally repulsed by porn anyway."

    you can't be serious!

    Who act in porn? all of them are males?

  392. @ sina

    "I like a lot of things that has been created by Americans, like their constitution, which I believe is the best in the world and I don’t like a lot of things they do."

    What do you mean by 'created'? so you think humans are capable of creating?

  393. @ sina

    "I like a lot of things that has been created by Americans, like their constitution, which I believe is the best in the world and I don’t like a lot of things they do."

    What do you mean by 'created'? Do you think humans are capable of creating?

  394. "You might as well ask the US to give Texas and California as separate states for Mexican-Americans to enjoy self-determination." I think this is a case of comparing apples with oranges, of course mexicans don`t have to right to an independent state becuse america is a nation of immigrants, but the palestian arabs do becuse they lived on that land before the zionist immigrants arrived. This is like the immigrant Europeans to america telling the red indians they have no right to Self-determination.

    "You are expected to abide by the laws of the country where you live." The arabs who are forced out of jersulam by israel (even when they can prove their family owned that property before the british mandate) are not breaking any laws.

    "You also do not have the right to self-determination in the country where you live." This is not true (in all cases) the irish had a right to independence from britain as did america.

  395. I don’t understand hodge-podge alien language. All the abrahmic religions should be thrown in dustbin. They have given nothing except bloodshed through jihad and crusades. You people fighting eachother for superomacy since ages and made the world hell. One one hand islam wants to rule the world on the other hand christians are craving to win the world through tactful conversion. See who are fighting eachother?

  396. Print that in a peer-reviewed scholarly journal too.

  397. Save your stories for the judge.

  398. Yes Muhammad. We will submit and obey.

  399. Muhammad's economic system is stealing from unbelievers. Run out of resources and need more? Go steal more.

    Even today it's in the news that Muslims are complaining they are not doing enough to exercise their right to booty from unbelievers.

  400. Good points. If Islam did not oppress people with violence, we would just think it was another cute primitive religion. We would think Muslims were foolish, but we would not dislike them.

  401. True. But she will see it. Maybe it will bounce around in her head at night.

  402. I'm so glad you have descended from heaven to enlighten us all.

    Be sure to tell the Muslims too. They will be glad to know the Amahdi has arrived.

  403. Oh! Stop the presses. Get that published immediately in the next scholarly academic peer-reviewed journal. The state of the art of Western knowledge-based society has just been changed by your new revelation.

  404. Unfortunately it doesn't await Muslims. At least not the ones who believe in what the Quran teaches. Maybe if Auntie is lucky she doesn't know enough about the Quran to be kept out!

  405. There's a saying among American cattlemen that says if you are new to the ranch, you should graze on the edges of the herd.

    That is a way of saying that if you don't know your way around things, you should spend some time observing and learning before you get involved.

    This applies not just to "Auntie", but to all Muslims who come in from their provincial background and automatically think they know everything, or more than the kaffir.

  406. She should widen her view first.

  407. Heaven awaits… :*

  408. Here read the reality of christianity. Christ conspiracy and fake jesus. All originated in ancient egypt.

    http://stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.h

  409. Here read the brutal facts of christianity

    http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/

  410. You have to understand this auntie. She's using Islam as viewpoint. It's called "emulating the Arab idol". Everything will be judged using this. :S

  411. 3. The British came up with the

    concept of the Aryan Invasion of

    India which spread culture and

    civilized thought to India and

    that until then Indians were

    uncivilized barbarians. Hence,

    again, the civilization described in

    these texts, which seemed to be

    more advanced in science,

    technology, culture, philosophy

    and linguistics could not have

    existed prior to the Aryan

    Invasion and hence the texts are

    mythical. The Aryan Invasion has

    now been dismissed by the

    Western historians as a figment

    of concoction by the British to

    justify their occupation of India

    as a rightful occupier of this

    Indian territory and beneficiary

    of its natural resources by

    painting the Indians themselves

    as belonging to the Aryan race in

    reality who had invaded and

    settled in India and set aside the

    original inhabitant Dravidian race

    as lower castes. This Aryan –

    Dravidian classification has now

    been proven to be racially

    incorrect as the entire Indian

    population has been found to

    belong to the same race despite

    their differences in features and

    complexion. Also the study of

    traditional Indian text has thrown

    to light how the terminologies

    Aryan and Dravidian were based

    on geographical division and not

    racial, cultural or civilizational.

    Thus this premise of Mr.Mill &

    Mr. Grant also seems to be

    flawed.

    4. They held that the

    Genealogies were incoherent and

    hence the texts were imaginary

    or mythical. It is to be noted that

    while texts contained

    Genealogies, their focus was on

    key human achievements,

    Dharma and Principles to be

    followed – basically lessons for

    life. Given this, there is a

    therefore a good possibility for

    gaps or inconsistencies in

    discussing the order in

    Genealogy, but that cannot

    detract from the historicity of the

    texts.

    Thus on all 4 grounds, Mr.Mill &

    Mr. Grant assumptions for

    classifying the Indian literature as

    mythological have been found

    flawed.

  412. In 1813, Mr.James Mill & Mr.
    Charles Grant from Helebary
    College, wrote History of India
    and classified most of the
    literature of India as
    Mythological.
    Mr.Mill & Mr. Grant classified
    these texts as Mythological on
    the following 4 grounds:

    1. The events in these texts
    seemed to go before the date of
    creation of the earth as fixed by
    Father. James Usher as 9 AM,
    23rd Oct, 4004 BCE. Hence these
    texts which describe India and
    the existence of its civilization
    prior to this time could not be
    real and must be mythical or
    imaginary. A fact that has now
    been proven wrong by modern
    cosmology and traditional
    archeological finds. Hence this
    premise of Mr.Mill & Mr. Grant is
    flawed.

    2. It was held by the colonial
    British that Alexander defeated
    Porus in 326 BCE and spread
    culture and civilized thought to
    India and that until then Indians
    were uncivilized barbarians. So
    the civilization described in these
    texts which seemed to be more
    advanced in science, technology,
    culture, philosophy and
    linguistics could not have existed
    prior to the arrival of Alexander
    and hence the texts are mythical.
    Not only has the existence of a
    civilized India prior to the arrival
    of Alexander been proved
    beyond an iota of doubt, the
    talk of the defeat of Porus in the
    hands of Alexander is also now
    being questioned with the
    uncovering of various pre biblical
    texts and piecing together
    various circumstantial evidences
    which point to the contrary
    namely, Alexander being
    wounded and defeated by
    Porus . Hence this premise of
    Mr.Mill & Mr. Grant is also
    flawed.

  413. Don't worry auntie. Knowledgeable person know how to handle things properly and making all sides happy. You should worry about your own kind.

    Morality can be defined by people at certain time and using basic humanity as primary spice. Golden rule covers it all but hard to practice. Hey, human is not perfect.

  414. Abrahmic god is nothing but small vedic diety indra.

    http://jesus-messiah.com/html/jove.html

  415. She's auntie of the wonderland. She will not hear that.

  416. Other Readers are watching this so nothing is wasted. :p

    Think her as a sacrifice for the sin. :x :x

  417. When Copernicus (15th century)
    and Galileo (16th century)
    established the dynamics of solar
    system, that the earth is spherical
    and orbits around the sun. For
    this scientific statement to the
    world, Copernicus was forced to
    withdraw his statement and
    Galileo was imprisonment for
    lifetime. Whereas in 500 AD,
    nearly a millennium before
    Galileo and Copernicus, Indian
    astronomer and mathematician
    Aryabhatta discovered and
    publicly announced that earth
    orbits around the sun in about
    365 days, the Indian society
    accepted this scientific wisdom of
    Aryabhatta and he happily
    continued to propagate his
    scientific work.

    Here lies difference between dogmatic abrahmic religions and eastern dharm.

  418. Christianity has the bloodiest history. After that islam. Christians developed only few centuries back after releasing them from clutches of churches. Just see how shameless people you are. First you people declared indian texts as myth now shamelessly copying their contents to sell your religion.

    http://www.yogaindailylife.org/news/catholic-chur

  419. Will you beat or kill the wife? ;) ;)

    Luth is contextual and he was not even inside Islamic rule. Muhammad's teaching will answer this.

  420. That's not golden rule. Why are you mimicking auntie here?

  421. Auntie, obviously you want to ignore the condition behind the Charter of Medina and other countless narrations describing the suffering of minorities, let alone the historical fact about the expulsion. Last but not least, you ignore answers here.

    So, by mentioning 16.000 plus wives while it’s a myth and the story is actually different than what you think, is going to erase Muhammad’s immoral conduct?

    Muhammad was maniac and he was historical character, emulated by his followers, while Khrisna was not. Can a Hindu do it? Is there any Hindu doing it?

    Trust me, even if someone read that Khrisna it will be no problem. Cite relevant fact about this, will you? I need proof for the urgency of this matter.
    You mentioned Prithvi but what for? One person is not enough to prove this as problem. You need reality.

    What does 16.000 plus wives mean in Hindusim? What was Khrinsa doing with all his wives?

  422. I know reality of all religions. Christianity is nothing. All copy-paste religion. Christianity was even lot before jesus. There were many christ movement going on at that time. All were merged and put in name of jesus. Jesus was not the only crucified saviour. There were many more. Just dig the root of every religions you will find the truth. Just go to this jew site and see the truth who are jews and who was abraham.

    http://aumshalom.com/index.html

  423. Muhammad couldn't solve the poverty. That's fact.

  424. Auntie,

    “Raising questions” is the same with “attacking” in your own dict because you do it improperly. You just bashed it with no strong reason or good logic.

    Unique marriages in Hindu and Bible have nothing to do with Islam’s evil and are already vanished or started to in this modern era. It poses no threat to us. At least, you have to prove it properly before saying it out loud. Why should we bother about insignifcant thing? If we keep pestering with this little one, we’ll just like your god, so insecure about things that can’t affect him, leading us to unnecessary rants like many verses in the Quran. Is your god like us? I thought your Quran says otherwise?

    It’s the right for everyone to believe god but not to impose it to others with sword and claim the truth in it. This is the crux all this long, auntie.

    No one is finding god here, it’s just your delusion and lies. God should need no human to make things happen and if it’s urgent, he should do it with his own way as if he really can be urged which is silly. Strong desire produces strong act and your god’s act is far from strong no matter what view you use. This is the problem of god’s concept in your religion.

    “To me” means personal opinion, not fact. Don’t attack people with that, it won’t work. It only sullies your name.

    Believing god doesn’t mean it exists. It’s just faith so there is no word called “proven” or “unproven”. What you can do is throwing the false attribute in god and finds the truth. Your method to find god is no way the correct one. You take the whole package without question.

    If one is too deep to question god then it is god’s wish. God made that attitude, remember? God is all knowing, remember? It is normal and designed for human to want to see god and god should have no problem to do it (as if he can get problem). If you prevent human to do this you’ll lock them up in the sea of falsehood where cons and fake prophets live. I’ve told you before that prophet hood is a failed system.

    You chose Islam for a mere claim and that claim was not the first one. Monotheism and one god is not new. Any fake prophet can say it. All you need is proof, not empty claim ignoring the other blunders existed in Quran. Just because someone claims to be a musician doesn’t mean he is musician until he proves that he can play music.

    The reason for criticizing Islam stands on 3 grounds:

    1. Its unique condition and threat in modern world (done in this site)
    2. Its incapability to change (done in this site)
    3. Its falsehood (done in this site)

    While other religions are reforming and pose no threat, Islam is the opposite. Your weak reason is not the answer for the article. You have to prove that other religions are the same with Islam in endangering the world. Cite recent news or fact related to that.

    Those diverse capabilities are odd if you pay attention to my posts.

    No one is thinking that you got control of your own brain in the sense of turning it off and on but that has nothing to do with Islam. This site dismisses the “wrong” side of “god”, not “god”. Pestering on fact to prove falsehood will convince no one.

  425. We know auntie will not even respond to such questions.

    I am not sure if we are wasting time talking to her.

    But I don't believe in giving up on people.

    Maybe I'm too naive to know when people are incorrigible.

  426. Can she tell us why Muhammad approved rape?

    Did he tell his men they could not do it in public?

  427. "will you give your self to any authority to let yourself be crucified?"

    You clearly don't understand the doctrines of Atonement and Resurrection which Christ performed once for all mankind. There is no reason for this to be duplicated by humans. You would know this if you read the Bible instead of just talking about it.

  428. Auntie, you haven't answered me on "chess board" question I ask earlier. It's connected with Maruf and his questions too. How about both of you answer it? ;)

  429. Try to ask this auntie.

    1. Is it ok to take captive and enslave them, including sex?

    2. Is it ok to force the wives to sex or beating them?

    3. Is it ok to look at kafir's marriage as illegal thus deserved to be owned?

    4. Is it ok to take multiple wives? ;)

    It's not me, it's the Quran.

  430. Those resources are not bad. Their particular strength is that they include a wide variety of differing opinions. In other words, they do not push their own interpretation, but present the various sides of the argument when something is unclear.

  431. Oh, it's personal choice of course, with personal consequence. It can be positive or negative, depends on the knowledge of the daughter.

    No knowledge? Don't release her in the jungle.

  432. Auntie, oh auntie, this is what happened if you pay no attention to answers:

    1. Some say staring at a different sex is not OK.

    Answer: It’s ok and natural. The only one that says wrong knows nothing of human. Now, who that would be?

    2. Some say staring is OK but touching is not.

    Answer: It’s ok and natural again. Morality progresses, auntie. Touching is not going to hurt anyone.

    3. Some say touching is OK but kissing is not

    Answer: Again, it’s ok as long as you know your place and don’t it in front of other people who still have problem with it (golden rule).

    4. Some say kissing is OK but making love is not

    Answer: Making love is personal business and ok as long as it goes without future problem and force. No one will create problem if the 2 couples really do it properly in long term and committed to each other. Hey, even Muhammad didn’t consider this heavily. You know, thievery is worse than this in Islam. Why is that, auntie?

    5. Some say making love is OK but doing it in public is not

    Answer: Public sex is not ok, auntie. It disturbs others ordinary people and affect then with negative attitude. You have to see the effect for the whole.

    6. Some say doing it in public is OK but making it as business is not

    Answer: Making business and doing it in public are 2 different things. First one can be for private use or public, depend on the usage and can be arranged but second one is literally on public, no compromise. It’s relative.

    7. But the golden rule tells you to never disturb any one doing one of those.

    Golden rule tell humans to think with other’s shoe for the good of the whole. Imagine a condition between rapist and victim. The rapist likes it but victim doesn’t. In here, you have to attack the negative one, the victim’s fate. The rapist wouldn’t like if he is raped by inmate in jail so he shouldn’t make others suffer if he doesn’t like it. Golden rule doesn’t tell you no to disturb anyone. It’s jungle law that tells you. Know something before talking, auntie.

    No. 1-2 is ok, no.3 is ok with certain condition, no. 4 depends on circumstance, no. 5 is not ok, no. 6 is very limited ok, and no. 7 is your stupidity.

    Key words: your surrounding, positioning yourself at other’s view, not your own.

    Tool to digest: healthy brain

    Causes of relativity: human knowledge and wisdom

    Attention: Hard to be understood by aunties and moms.

    So simple, yet you cannot understand this. Your daughter should aware the danger and advised not to do it, but you can't kill and torture her just for honor. Life can be eye opening.

    My turn:

    Since Islam is not ok (yet gives no reason and enough punishment) then can you explain why no 1-7 are not ok?
    B)

  433. This must be some fruit of Muhammad's tactic of mental conditioning to submission such that even Muslims have dhimmi behavior.

  434. It is really difficult to understand this Muslim psychological disorder, as per my other post's questions.

  435. Key words: Islamic porn. B)

  436. How about my counter question, auntie? It's personal choice and go on with education of course.

  437. Khrisna was not sex maniac if judge him by his deed, if you know what I mean.

    On the contrary, deeds and teachings of Mo indicate that he was maniac. He often talked about sex, even unimportant one.

    Where is my answer?

  438. A strange flow of a dialogue:

    A: You are wrong, look at this proof.
    B: But, yours are wrong too.
    A: No, you got it wrong. You misquoted it. Stop switching topic before finishing the current one.
    B: Oh come one, you are wrong. (trying so hard to make the opponent forget).

    Only in muslim brain. B)

  439. Identity, self insurance, brainwashed etc. A muslim loves to be a muslim no matter what the condition is. Even if a muslim lives in a failed state and become a beggar he/she will choose it than rich indifel nation, loyalty speaking.

  440. Auntie, to judge something objectively, you have to consider both side of the story. I do it all this long about Islam and Muhammad but why don’t you?

    For point 1, you may read this or this.

    For point 2, read this

    For point 3, read this

    For point 4, this and this

    For point 5, this and this

    For point 6, this

    Be an adult critic, not childish one (with silly reason and presentation). Of course it goes with your response all this long which you never get it right.

    :*

  441. But what is there to like about her world?

    Do you think she lives under a truly moderate Islam and is happy in it?

    Why does she even bother to go online and talk to people about Islam?

    What does she hope to accomplish?

    I asked her directly, but she didn't answer.

  442. Her behavior and reaction. ;)

  443. Muhammad told them to and I've proven it in other article including indo site. xD

    You haven't read that, I'm not surprised anyway, since you run from it.

    Now, the concept of god who is very jealous, insecure, and need insurance from his slaves.

    Explain to me as to why Allah is like that? Don't be offended too, it;'s counter attack from all your nonsense here. ^_^

  444. Where is my answer, auntie. My 4 points is still waiting. You have to finish your own problem before attacking others. ;)

  445. There is a problem here if you ignore other verses that simply state his divinity. Yes, I can see that you are not an expert, you only cut and quote. :p

  446. The pot is calling the kettle and the post doesn't realize it. ;)

  447. Nothing is cool, auntie. She's still an idolater nonetheless.

    Now, since you keep posting this nonsense I suggest you finish my 4 points first. It's related.

    It's your own Islamic books that say it. I merely quoted it. Don't blame me, blame your idol.

    Will you explain, auntie Ihsan?

  448. The only one that is rubbish is certainly muslim. They never want to talk about the issue and solve it. It makes the discussion never ends. :p

  449. Auntie, will you let your daughter to experience polygyny or domestic violence or marital rape?

  450. The auntie doesn't care because it's her world. Everyone wants to protect their own ego.

  451. I too didn't mean to insult you, merely wanting an answer. I see you always attack religions outside Islam that has nothing to do with it. Of course in other religions that are questions too but the urgency is incomparable with Islam. Other religions don't have the evil like Islam.

    Bible? Where? This is old school, auntie and you have no idea what the difference. Come one, quote the verse and let me smack it. ;)

    Why Sina never touches those? The answer is simple. It's irrelevant and not important. It's merely theory. Now, my turn to ask. Why you never touch my queries?

    Whatever Khrisna did was certainly better compared to Muhammad and of course, he's not historical character. :p

  452. Oh my dear Dr Ali Sina, will you please listen to the golden advice of a humble historian named Oswald Chambers, who said that "Faith is deliberate confidence in the character of God Whose ways you may not understand at the time". Jesus loves you. <3

  453. ya, but that is islam. In Vedic Dharma, you can refuse to believe in Vedas, you can even hate God if you want, you can disbelieve in him, and still not get punished, because in Vedic Dharma God only cares about your deeds. In Vedic Dharma, no body is a muslim, christian, hindu , jew, zoro, sikh, budd, everybody are humans, and either they are good humans or bad humans and it cant get any simpler.

  454. This is a legal situation. We can argue philosophy, ethics, morality, sociology etc all we want. But the fact is that Israel holds legal title to the land of Palestine. You might as well ask the US to give Texas and California as separate states for Mexican-Americans to enjoy self-determination. It's not going to happen. The South tried it before and Abraham Lincoln made the correct decision to not let it stand.

    Similarly you hold title to the land that your house sits on. You will not react favorably if your neighbor's son comes over and says he wants a piece of your land so he can have self-determination.

    There are irredentist movements are over the globe. You can't just let whoever wants cut himself off from his country and declare independence. If you allow that we will have a near infinite number of nations on the earth each consisting of a family and their plot of land. There will be no social order, but only anarchy.

    Who is talking about forcing anyone to leave their own property? You own property. You are expected to abide by the laws of the country where you live.

    You also do not have the right to self-determination in the country where you live. You are subject to the laws where you live and you are not allowed to declare yourself a state.

  455. The beliefs sound good. It sounds like there is freedom to believe whatever you want, so it is easy to assert good things.

    Dr. Sina once believed the good things he expected from religion were present in Islam. But Islam is a very prescriptive religion, and those who do not believe what Islam says are punished, often by death.

  456. Yes you are wrong. You are unable to see him classifying himself as below his father and above humanity. You have to read the whole Bible, not just the verses your imams use to attack Christianity.

  457. Well, I certainly think the God of the Bible is logical. I object to having the Bible grouped together with the Quran.

  458. Things that happen in other religions are not relevant to the evidence of the fraud and evil of Islam.

  459. "verses in the Bible that portray sexual activities"

    You are again showing your ignorance of how to read the Bible. The Bible is also a historical document that records things that happened without commenting on whether they were right or wrong. They are not biblical teachings. The reader is supposed to know biblical moral standards and understand for himself that the actions recorded were immoral.

  460. You need to stop looking at life through the distorted lens of Islam.

  461. That's a nice straw man. Please don't talk about Christianity when you don't have correct information about it.

  462. Right. If there have been individual incidents, they go against Israeli policy like the Mai Lai massacre went against US policy.

    Overall, the IDF is probably more concerned about moral conduct of operations than even the US military.

  463. Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed post DG. No need to apologize. This is a public forum and all are free to jump into any discussion at any time.

    I'm not familiar with what Islam says about the destruction of the universe, but in Christianity the end is a renewal of the universe, not a destruction.

  464. @ All,
    Sorry that this part of the thread might be hijacked to discussing a religion other than Islam. I'm only trying to test my own convictions and gather knowledge that either will strengthen or weaken it. If you are not interested about Vedas or Hindu religion, please feel free to skip over the following posts.
    .
    @hindu2011,
    .
    I don't easily disrespect or belittle or insult anyone. In the course of our debate I assure you that I shall not make any insulting or disparaging remarks on you as a person. Now, let me make my observations clear.
    .
    A. Please quote where you're picking your translations from. If it's even Sanskrit or Hindi, please provide link to the exact RV verses.
    .
    B. "The road to hell is built with good intentions": When looking from the perspective of ISI (Pak Intel) inspired maniacs like Zaid Hamid or Hamid Gul, people working for LeT, JeM, HuJI, etc will be seen as "Arya" and those attempting to kill them will be viewed as "Dasyu". So, do you still support killing of Dasyu for protecting the Arya? After all, it is the police & armed forces of various nations that are trying to fight against LeT, JeM, HuJI, etc. Even the ISI's support for such groups is out of "good intentions" – they want to protect the "Arya" from the "Dasyu" – just that to them, Muslims of Pakistan are Arya and the Kaffirs of Hindustan are "Dasyu". You see the problem with the mantra? It has the potential to be mis-used & abused – not much dissimilar to how Mullahs & Imams brain-wash the likes of Kasab.
    .
    C. "Ali Sina and you would agree" – I wager a bet that Dr Sina is not against Osama or Kasab *only* because they killed. There are millions of killers and murderers and maniacs freely roaming the world. Ali Sina is not writing about Hitler or Mussolini or Gaddafi (even though he is against every tyrant, oppressor); nope. He writes exclusively against Mohammed & Islam. There's a reason for that. He strongly rationalizes that *fear* & other tactics employed by the likes of Osama (& the trainers of Kasab) are supported by Islamic suras-ayats. These suras & ayats (In my naive & not-so-respected opinion) is not much dissimilar to the Rig-Vedic mantra you described.
    .
    D. Astrology: It's very much a part of Hindu culture, tradition & even religion (The rituals in almost every havan or homam refers to astrological signs & astrological terms to indicate various items from time, time of year, position of moon, etc). The website is a pro-Hindu one and I stand by my statement. You said it's unauthentic – in response to my claim that it is pro-Hindu. That pro-Hindu site has links to many scriptures and I don't see any reason why it's not authentic as a pro-Hindu website. And I require you to define the term "an authentic Vedic site"; since I never made any such claims regarding that site (because I don't really have a common definition for such a site).
    .
    E. Can you post a few thoughts about Carvaka or Charvaka? What would be your opinion about a person that considers himself/herself a Hindu but treats the Vedas as nothing more than some fables?
    .
    F. Your user-id "hindu2011" – has the word hindu. Please point to me any verse in the Vedas where this word is used to refer to an ideology or a group of people.
    .
    I'd like to thank you & other readers for their time & patience. I hope to learn from this interaction and eagerly look forward to your reply.
    .
    MN

  465. @Duratma Gandhi

    here are the CORRECT ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS of the Vedic mantras you quoted.

    1) Riv Veda III: 34: 9

    This mantra implies that Arya should be protected and Dasyu be destroyed.

    Arya = innocent people, noble men, etc
    Dasyu = criminals, terrorists, rapists, etc.

    What is wrong with this mantra, all it says to protect all innocent people and kill all osama bin ladens, or kasabs which are dreaded terrorists. I bet even Ali Sina and you would agree with this mantra.

    2)RV 8.31. 15

    talks about womenhood and claims that women should be respected, and it doesnt even talk about anything stupid like sacrifices.

    I have seen that hindu site you have told me, and it is not a Vedic site. The site supports astrology which is strongly against Vedas so how can you consider it an authentic Vedic site?????

  466. "Jordan was specifically established for Arab Palestinians." Who are the british to tell people where to live? Second what if they don`t want to go, no one can force them to leave their own property. Thirdly you are engaging in the fallacy of special pleading as israel does not have the right to deny the palestian arabs their right of Self-determination.

  467. @Ishwar

    thanks for this usefull knowledge, let us all be rational, logical, loving, and reject false God images like Allah or Jewish God Yehweh, because when we do this we are following the true Vedic Dharma.

  468. @Everyone

    I been reading many people are curious about Vedas and posting stupid questions. Ok, let me make it simple, I will simply state what Vedic Dharma (religion of Vedas) is.

    In Vedic Dharma,

    one should explore things rationally and logically.
    one will not be punished for disbelieving in God or Vedas.
    one should show compassion to all innocent human beings.
    one should be a vegetarian because Vedas call for compassion on all living creatures.
    one will earn happiness by doing noble and rational deed.
    As per Vedas, there is no such thing as a lustful heaven or a oven like hell, everything is here on earth. When one person is in extreme happiness that becomes heaven for him/her. When one is in suffering and pain, that is hell for him her.
    and above all one should show the highest scale of respect to women, because women are symbols of motherhood.

    Now, I challenge anyone to show defects in Vedic Dharma

  469. “I just want you to notice there there are 'unique marriages' in Hinduism and verses in the Bible that portray sexual activities which you seem to have deliberately negated while in fact they also leave room for questions.”

    You are most welcome to question them, but not when you are defending Islam. That would be a tu queque fallacy. You do this even when debating with an atheist who has nothing to do with those religions.

    So you have decided to believe in a religion even though there is no evidence of the existence of God. Fine, I have no problem with that. After all I believe in Bugs Bunny so who am I to tell you not to believe in irrational things. But you say you want to believe in the best religion and here is the problem. Islam is the worst religion not the best.

    There are so many things we don’t see but believe. But there is a big difference between believing in the big bang or the fact that one day you were part of a star and believing in god. The former can be demonstrated while the latter cannot. In fact logic says that god in the way Muhammad described him cannot exist. I am not discarding the possibility that God may exist as you can see in my article “Does God Exist?” However, it is absolutely certain that the god of Muhammad cannot exist.

    “I have chosen Islam for it clearly states about Allah in the Surah Al-Ikhlas (112) that Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”

    And why do you think such a banal statement is earthshaking? Any ignoramus could have said such thing. Did you read what the Hindu philosophers said about Brahma? The Hindu philosophy that says there are infinite universes, each dreamt by a god resonates with the cutting edge of scientific theories today. Muhammad notion of God is primitive. Even if you want to believe in God you have to find a definition of God that is not stupid. Even Muslims realized that definition is stupid and hence the Suffis in particular gave a completely different reading to what Muhammad said. They twist everything because they can see Muhammad’s definition of God is puerile.

    I know that Muhammad said don’t ask because you will become disbelievers, but that is precisely the point. He knew if people start using their brains they can see he was a liar. If God exists, he or it cannot be irrational but rather it must be very rational and validated by every law of the universe.

    “You might think that you completely own your brain or your heart. If you do so, please tell your heart to stop beating for just 1 minute and see what happens. Will it obey you? Will it not?”

    No I don’t believe in such an absurdity. My body functions by biological laws that govern it. My heart muscles are controlled by my reptilian brain not by my neo cortex and I have no control over my reptilian brain.

    But since you love these logical fallacies why don’t you put your Allah to test? Ask him something trivial and see if he will do it. A few years ago a Muslim from Pakistan challenged me to Mubahilah. I told him this is a stupid belief I am not going to waste my time prying God so he dies. In fact I don’t want him to die. I want him to live with new awareness and be happy. He insisted and I said go ahead and pray so I die. He said within three months I will die. That is almost five years ago. I wrote to him several times after that and he never responded. Now I don’t know whether he is dead or he is embarrassed. I hope the latter. But if he is dead I never prayed for it.

    These are stupid thinking. When people believe in a stupid faith they say and do stupid things even though they are smart people otherwise.

  470. All abrahmic religions are false. Even jews are desbendends of yayadi now called yadvas in india. Abrahm migrated from Harappa between 2200-1900 BC. This was the period of great draught all over the world that changed whole history of world. All you idiots specially duratma_gandhi dont know even an iota of hinduism so dont talk of them. Christians are fools. Christianity account says that world was formed only 4004 BC. Therefore britishers declared indian intellectual texts to be myth. Because they couldn’t believe how can be so developed civilization when there was no world before 4004 BC? So they declared all that myth. Hinduism is no religion. Its modern name of sanatan dharm. The base of sanatan dharm is vedas, the oldest text known to mankind. It is wrong to call dharm as religion. Both have huge difference. Go learn first and then come to talk. Religions are false only dharm is true and eternal. Its called manav (human) dharm. Sanatan dharm is based on humanity. What interpolations you see is result of thousand of years of invasion and british rule. They have ruined india and its heritage. To know the reality of europe read the history written by will durant. He has well exposed them. Upanishads are commentries on vedas written by rishis. Ramayana and mahabharata are historical accounts and rama and krishna are not myths. Infact historicity of krishna is well established now. Google and see proofs. Even his city of dwarka has been found out under water by arcaeological department. Actually rama and krishna were not gotds or incarnates. They were great humans beings. Pure vedic followers aryans. And nobody should depend on translations of vedas from western indologists. Because it is written in vedic sanskrit. Its not childs play to translate them. When did these conversion virus missionaries became scholars of vedic sanskrit? Vedas are highly scientific. All abrahmic religions are mere claims of single man without giving any proofs. Only jesus was better that was because he learnt spritualliy from india. The christians hide truth out of false ego. No one knows about his life between 12 to 30 years of age. This has been kept secret. Even trinity of catholics is born in ancient sri lanka. Idiots read and research about ancient world before 4000 years and come to know what the real history is of all the religions.

  471. @ sina

    Now you are sounding like you are promoting what the Quran teaches about a wife not obedient to her husband. The Quran tells us the story about the Prophet Luth AS who left his wife that went against Allah.

  472. @ sina

    You are an atheist and I am a Muslim. ;)

    Never did I mean to show wrongs in Hinduism, Christianity or other religions nor do I want to attack other faiths. I just want you to notice there there are 'unique marriages' in Hinduism and verses in the Bible that portray sexual activities which you seem to have deliberately negated while in fact they also leave room for questions.

    To me, having gone through questionable teachings in different religions, then it's the right of every individual who believes there is God to select which one is best for him.

    For doing as such, he can find his God talking to him in His Way through His verses revealed to humans. It is what we call believing. Be it proven or not, when one goes on too deep in questioning God then he will potentially end up asking to see God himself which is impossible as revealed in the Quran in the case of Prophet Musa AS.

    I have chosen Islam for it clearly states about Allah in the Surah Al-Ikhlas (112) that Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

    The Quran also suggests the diverse capabilities of humans:

    "The bedouins say, "We have believed." Say, "You have not [yet] believed; but say [instead], 'We have submitted,' for faith has not yet entered your hearts. And if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." (QS Al Hujuroot: 14).

    You have become so critical against Islam, what made you not against others. I kinda think that you will direct me to read "why attack only Islam' but how much of other religions that you have covered in that particular short article of yours?

    You might think that you completely own your brain or your heart. If you do so, please tell your heart to stop beating for just 1 minute and see what happens. Will it obey you? Will it not?

  473. "where do you get all this nonsense from??? The site you have shown is highly unauthentic"
    a. First prove what these verses indicate – and then you can go on to title them as non-sense.
    b. The site I showed "HINDUBOOKS dot org" is a completely pro-Hindu devotional website. Why do you think a site that talks about Pooja and various scriptures and a host of other pro-Hindu items is "unauthentic".
    c. Why do you term a pro-Hindu website and the material found therein as "unauthentic" and "nonsense". Is this how Swami Shri Dayanand Saraswati educate Arya-Samaji students – to use such language in a non-Hindu anti-Islam pro-freedom forum of discussion, and that too to talk about a pro-Hindu devotional website?
    .
    MN

  474. 1. Rig Veda III:34:9
    2. Rig Veda VIII:31:15
    .
    Please post Sanskrit or Hindi verses and a translation of your choice. I'm open to any website of your choice – but you got to do the research & provide the information. Then, I get back to either agree or dis-agree.
    .
    MN

  475. @ VRM

    I didn't mean to insult your religion but since sina has always tried to attack Islam, I just want to make sure that he too sees some events in other religions (particularly those sex-related) that surely rise questions. ;) Also verses in the Bible that even portray sexual activities.

    Why sina never touched those?

    What I then understand too is that there are also some disputes in Hindu one of which is that in regards to the number of Lord Khrisna's wives. You said one, some say three, some say 8 and onto 16008.

    Are you saying that after he married these captives, he never sexually engaged with them?

    What about Drupadhi's marriage to the five blood brothers of Pandawa. What does your version of myth say about it?

    When you google polyandry, there still are some tribes still practicing it.

  476. On contrary, Vedas talk about loving your parents, and loving all humanity in all these verses. Vedas say we should think GOOD for everyone regardless he she is a believer or not. We should be well wishers for everyone except for terrorists or criminals. We should love all innocent souls

  477. @Duratma_Gandhi

    where do you get all this nonsense from??? The site you have shown is highly unauthentic.

    listen, the Vedas translations done by western idologists are pure garbage and to be trashed. The sad thing is innocent hindu sites use their translations since they themselves never read Vedas in pure Sanskrit.

    If you want the correct translations of Vedas (availble in hindi and sanskrit only) go here http://aryasamajjamnagar.org/

    and for more information about Vedas, the best site for Vedas information is http://www.agniveer.com

    let me answer ur questions one by one.

    1)There is no such thing as gods in Vedas, Vedas only talk about ONE GOD, and Indra is another name for that ONE GOD. Just like a man can be a husband, son, brother, grandfather, similarly to understand God of Vedas we have to look at him in different attributes.

    2)Again there is no such thing as dieties in Vedas, and no such thing as sacrifice in Vedas, dude, this is not Quran where God gets impressed by sacrifices. The person whom u got these translations from must be a real idiot.

  478. @Rahul

    first off===========

    God is unborn and eternal. As per Vedas, God never incarnates NOR sends messengers. Unlike the God of islam where u have to believe in messengers, there is nothing like that in Vedas. In Vedas, there is no agent between u and God.

    Proof of God's existence===================

    Look around you, everything has a perfect order. For example, the sun sets every morning without any disturbance, the planets orbit around the sun, our internal annatomy system is made in sucha way that the heart pumps the blood and our brain makes everything work, now tell me who could have designed all this?? All this cant be a coincidence can it?

    Moreover, when we are about to commit a sin, we hear an internal voice telling us not to do it, or when ever we do something wrong for the first time, we feel some sort of regret inside us, all these feelings are given to us by God.

    yes, I agree the God described in the Quran or Torah DOES NOT EXIST because the concept of God seems illogical there.

    But I believe in the God of Vedas

  479. @ John K

    No, John.

    I 'm not an expert in the Bible exegesis. But those verses I quoted are found in the Bible and and it tells us Muslims that even Jesus refused goodness to be attributed to him, only to God.

    Why is that?

    Am I wrong to say that when Jesus sounds that humble towards God, then he should be a very knowledgeable person belonging only to an honored group of people called Prophets?

    Will you explain John?

  480. Thank you, Arya Anand. On a personal level I don't endorse Dr. Swamy. And I most probably will not cast a vote for him or his party. Having said that, that by itself doesn't mean Swamy is not good.
    .
    He is a politician not much dissimilar from others in his ilk. He has switched loyalties many times in the past and I don't expect him to remain loyal to VHP or RSS for eternity either. Swamy hosted a party at "The Ashoka" back in 1999 where the guest of honour was (surprise surprise) Sonia Gandhi.
    .
    Don't get me wrong; I am completely against moves that prevent free speech – but I don't necessarily endorse the speech.
    .
    The article in itself was pretty strong; and if it was toned down, I strongly suspect that a huge majority of Indian Muslims will actually support it. I don't think there are too many Indian Muslims out there who don't recognize the TRUTH – that their ancestors were Hindus. And quite a significant percentage of such Muslims are PROUD of their lineage to India (& the Hindu religion). It's a different story that this silent majority is pretty worthless in terms of action – since they'll never express these thoughts in any public fora nor will they set-up rallies to express their opinions.
    .
    And even though I don't personally support Swamy, I tend to agree to a lot of items expressed in the article. Yes, I know – I'm a very oxymoronic (& even moronic) individual – that's just me.
    .
    MN

  481. Since you are so "in to" Vedas, could you clarify a few points, please.
    .
    1. " Rig Veda III:34:9" – Does Vedas say that Indira "smote the Dasyus, and gave protection to the Aryan colour" – gave protection to "ARYAN COLOUR"?
    I use an openly Hindu website for my translations
    "http://www.hindubooks.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=1856&page=34&&quot; – You please feel free to quote from a different site, if you so wish.
    2. "Rig Veda VIII:31:15" – "The man who, sacrificing, strives to win the heart of Deities will conquer those who worship not"
    .
    And that is just the tip of the iceberg; there's lots more but I stop with just 2. The *ISHWAR* of the Vedas seems to indicate a very similar concept as "al-Lah" of Quran. Conquer those who do not worship. Oh, and by the way, did you see a reference to "deities" as in MULTIPLE – not one but MANY. And did I read you state "Vedas believe in monotheism" – hmmm..
    .
    Bother a response?
    .
    MN

  482. Hi John K .. sorry to interrupt here.
    .
    It might be interesting to note that the word "Hindu" as a symbol to denote a group of people or an ideology or a faith-system is not found in any of the Vedas, Upanishads or the ancient scriptures. I strongly doubt if that word (Hindu) is found even in Ramayana or Mahabharartha (Bhagwad Geeta a part of this). The word in itself was coined by outsiders to identify the people living in a certain location / geography (near the banks of the Indus river).
    .
    The most apt verses that were used to identify people back in the ancient times were part of many rituals. Those verses are "dweediya Paraarthe, swetha varaha kalpe,vaivaswatha Manvanthare, Astavigum sathitame,kaliyuge, pradame paadhe,Jamboothdweepe Bharata Varshe, Bharata kande, merooh,Dakshine pareswe,sahapte" – and they're uttered even in my today's modern developing thrid-world India [Look here: "http://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/saraswati-pooja-2011timeprocedure-slokas-details/"
    .
    The population from Kashmir (even Kabul in North) to Kanyakumari (even Colombo & Jaffna in the South) from the time immemorial (before Akbar, before Ashoka were even born), has always identified themselves as inhabitants of "jambo dweepe" (the *large island* – literally; geographically the south-asian peninsula), "bharatha-varshe bharatha-kande" (the land or area ruled by King Bharatha or something to that effect), "dakshine parsve" – south of the huge mountain (south of himalayas). The "identification verse" I copy-pasted above contains a lot more specific details on the time (in counts of Yuga – which is probably millions / thousands of years).
    .
    And unlike the Abrahamic concept of creation; the Hindu system doesn't specify a "brahma" as the creator. The 4 yugas – ending with the current Kaliyuga – are repetitive. At the end of the Kaliyuga the world (or even entire universe) is destroyed; and subsequently a new one created. But, the cycle of destruction-creation-destruction.. continues; it's beginning & end aren't measured by units of any time.
    .
    I don't think any of that is scientific or even philosophical; but I do think it's hell-of-a-lot more imaginative fantasy than say al-Lah (Hubal) or al-Lah (Yawhew) creating the universe and then destroying it.
    .
    Another concept is that of "title". The "Lord Indra" that's referred to in many scriptures is not one specific being or God or deity – it's a mere TITLE. At different points in time, different beings were made Indira. Again, in my naive & humble opinion – a higher amount of imagination & fantasy.
    .
    Probably a star-trek of the 1000 B.C, if you will.
    .
    MN

  483. a correction, it is skandh 10

  484. It shows that you don't know what is a myth, and all those hindus are as sane as those who believe in
    an imaginary Allah and a fake prophet. I thought you know the story, but you don't. According to the story Krishna freed the women from the prison of Bhaumasur and instead of throwing them to the mercy of his companions, on the women's request, married them.( read shrimadbhagavat skandh19adhyaya59). The mythological Krishna did not use the women for ransom or rape them as Mo used to do.

  485. "Israel has not done any ethnic cleansing." Yet us assume (for the sake of arugment) israel has never done any ethnic cleansing, why then arabs should not have their right to self determination, just like the jews?

    "Regardless of various arguments for and against what was done, this is the country the Jews were given. The Muslims need to knock off their jealousy and let Israel have it." The jews can have israel, but what they cannot do and you agree is to ethically cleanse non-jews, it also follows that the palestians if they wish can govern themselves and have a peacefull relation-ship with the jewish inhabitants. I am not sure you agree with the last part, but if you do we have been aruging when we actually agree with each other.

  486. Excellent idea.

    You're welcome.

  487. I agree every human being has a right to have their human rights protected. The Mandate calls for the civic and human rights of all peoples in the area to be respected without regard to race or religion.

    Peace loving Palestinians have a right to live in Israel, Jordan, or any other country of their choice, but the Mandate establishes all land west of the Jordan River as belonging to Israel. Arab Palestinians were given the land east of the Jordan River. Arabs who live on the west side have a choice of living in Israel or moving to another country.

  488. The problem is that they are trying to establish a new state on land that was given to the Jews. The Arabs got 21 states, and Jordan was specifically established for Arab Palestinians. If they don't like living in Israel, they should move to the country of their choice.

  489. That's right. Einstein also said the issue of God's existence cannot be proven or disproven.

    On your other questions, in our belief this life is somewhat like your final semester of your PhD when you are on your own to work on your doctoral dissertation without help from the professors, or like a teenager leaving home for the first time to go to college and learn to take care of himself without having the parents around all the time.

  490. "On the other hand, the PA has clearly stated that the new Palestinian state would not allow any Jews. This is a violation of the Mandate provisions that are still in force." Yes they no right to establish a facist state, but a democratic they a right to, if you agree then why are you arguing with me, and if not why the double standard?

  491. Dear John K, thanks for your good advice here. I guess that I've forgotten the fact that Dr Ali Sina is a professional psychologist and that it's inappropriate to ask a professional psychologist like him for free service. Maybe I should just drop this idea of asking him for help and continue to trust in our good Lord Jesus for guidance and healing. :)

  492. "Sounds like you have been reading Arab propaganda." admittly their is a lot of arab propaganda but this is not one of them, as the israelis themselves admitted they were "indirectly responsible" and ariel sharon was found to "bear personal responsibility". Now if the israelis can be forgiven then for past "mistakes" then why not the palestians?

    "If you are against Islam, why do you so soundly defend Muslims?" I am not defending muslims or their call to destroy israel and replace it with an islamic state. But what i am saying is peace loving, non-muslim palestians (and i admit their are very few of them) do have a right to a DEMOCRATIC palestian state, that is only fair do you disagree with that princible and if so why?

  493. He is certainly powerful to look after us- but the point is- How was God born? How could a powerful all-powerful omniscient being have come into existence on its own? And if God does exist, why didnt he reveal how He came into existence ever to mankind- which has always asked this question? Imagine yourself as a creator of the Pacific Ocean. Why would you make such a vast ocean with no life anywhere- but just on a drop of water somewhere deep down in a trench in the ocean? God may have done that- I am not saying God doesnt exist- He may or may not exist. But why hasnt God shown Himself to Humanity in the last hundreds of thousands of years? No one has ever seen or heard from God (except some Prophets who claimed to have done so- they are the only ones who 'saw'). If God exists, why doesnt he show Himself to everyone and clear everyone's doubts? Muhammad claimed that the only way to go to Heaven was to believe in HIM as a Prophet of God and in God. Many Christians (You may not be among them) claim that JESUS is the ONLY way to reach God. Now remember that it is these humans ( may not be Jesus, but others like Muhammad) who claim that THEY are the only ones to reach God. Is God powerless that he cannot do without his Prophets like Muhammad? And why should others believe in the Prophethood of self-proclaimed Prophets who died hundreds of years ago?
    I transformed from an atheist into an agnostic. Just as no one can prove the existence of God, no one can also disprove the existence of God.

  494. That was the point of Mandate for Palestine. The Allied Powers established 21 countries for the Arabs, and 1 country for the Jews.

    Israel has not done any ethnic cleansing. Arabs who live in Israel prefer to live their rather than in the West Bank because they know they are treated better by Israel.

    Regardless of various arguments for and against what was done, this is the country the Jews were given. The Muslims need to knock off their jealousy and let Israel have it.

  495. You are certainly right about Israel's vulnerability.

    The incompetence of Arab armies has been to their favor in the past, but nuclear weapons add a new factor to the mix.

  496. Which also admits arabs did indeed live in that land. 60% is a slim majority, but thats not the point, becuse their is a hell of a diffence between a jewish majority country and a country for jews only.

  497. "Israel was given their right to a homeland." That right does not include ethically cleansing the arabs.

    "The Muslims refuse to accept it." You refuse to accept palestine why then you blame muslims for denying israel? What i say is the palestians should have their counrty and the israelis have theirs, that is fair, then what is your problem with that. "The problem isn't Israel and land." The problem technically is the land, though if this conflict did not have the religious elements (from both sides of the conflict) then it would have been solved decades ago.

  498. "Iran jokes that Israel is a one-bomb state, meaning that Iran can wipe Israel off the map by investing only one bomb." That`s my point israel is not invincible, and is certainly not a "safe haven" if their will be another holocaust it will be in israel.

  499. Hi Mr ilyas, do you mean to say that you are a perfect human being on planet earth and that you never have problems in your life at all? Don't you think that you are a very funny self righteous fool? By the way, is this the way your Rasulullah teach you to jeer at those who expose all his hideous crimes? Don't you think that you are a very funny time waster, living Muhammad's lies?

  500. Such concerns are certainly legitimate. There is also the concept of being self-sufficient for your own welfare rather than relying on others. I know there are limits to this, and we all need others from time to time, but there's strength in knowing you can solve your own problems. By reading the Bible daily and with daily prayer, you can also feel the influence of the Holy Spirit who we were promised would guide us in all things.

    Judging by the amount of psychological analysis in Dr. Sina's book, he may be a professional psychologist himself. It is also inappropriate to ask professionals for free service. But if you feel you must, you should send him an email and ask just exactly what you have said above. All he can say is no, and then you will not be left wondering. Your concerns really belong in private email, not in a public forum.

  501. The Golden Rule really applies here too. How do we think wives feel when the husband prefers to get his sexual outlet from pictures instead of his own wife? A man who thinks of the Golden Rule will think of his wife's feelings before his own pleasures.

  502. The poor people will be helped when they learn to fish, not when you give them fish.

  503. The world's problems will be solved when each individual person applies the Golden Rule in their own life and works with the people in their own circle of influence.

  504. That's okay. Your comment appeared under mine, but it is nested to Grace's comment.

  505. Oh, John K, it's not that I don't have the money to see a psychologist in my town. It's the stigma that tie to it. You don't know the place where I live. All personal records here where I live are no longer private and confidential because it's all interconnected and nobody here wants their employer know such personal information. That's the reason why I consult Doctor Ali Sina here, to help me to be a better person in life and hope that it will be for free because he knew where I live and the many restrictions I faced.

  506. Nobody is perfect, but this site exists for a serious purpose of saving the world from Islam.

    This fight is every bit as noble as the fight to save the world from the Nazis.

    It was the world's biggest and costliest war, but worth it for what it did to save us all.

  507. every comment on this are heater people gives .who are fade up with his own life and try to pass time and throw his rubbish to another people.well done good wisher people of the world.

  508. sorry forget about this comment itis not for you.

  509. well done good answear to so call golden rule invetor.this people not solve his problem and try solve world problem very funny time waster.
    sorry i put my commet by mistake to john k comment below but i want give this comment to agracen

  510. well done good answear to so call golden rule invetor.this people not solve his problem and try solve world problem very funny time waster.

  511. who are you to creating golde rule and thinking this rule is going to be success but in your dream this rule are successfull but not in reality nothing going to happen.than stop wasting verybody time and mony.give mony to poor people.

  512. lots of rule come and gone but faild now you are coming to put your so called rule on the people but not work out,who are you to give suggetion to world people you not sovle your own proble and try to solve world problem.

  513. I'd be more worried about my son becoming a porn addict.Most women are naturally repulsed by porn anyway.

    Let me put it to you plain & very clear.Any man who's addicted to porn is first & foremost addicted to masturbation.Giving up the latter will automatically cure the "porn addiction".
    Besides it's impossible to be a porn addict & have a fulfilled sex life.

  514. A lot of straw man arguments here. Sounds like you have been reading Arab propaganda. The discussion devolves into you claiming we cite Zionist propaganda and us claiming you cite Muslim propaganda.

    If you are against Islam, why do you so soundly defend Muslims?

  515. Census data I have seen show Israel already a majority in Jerusalem, about 60%.

  516. It doesn't matter. Israel was given their right to a homeland. The Muslims refuse to accept it. You can't blame the victim for the violence of the oppressors. Muslims can do what Lord Balfour suggested and be content with the 21 states they were given and allow Israel their "niche". The problem isn't Israel and land. The problem is Islamic anti-Semetism which will not go away as long as the Quran is accepted as the word of God.

  517. "Can they defend themselves from a nuclear attack?"

    Iran jokes that Israel is a one-bomb state, meaning that Iran can wipe Israel off the map by investing only one bomb.

    All the more reason to be concerned about Iran's nuclear program.

  518. I agree. Israel has been very pro-active in fulfilling the Mandate provisions that no person shall be discriminated against due to race or religion.

    On the other hand, the PA has clearly stated that the new Palestinian state would not allow any Jews. This is a violation of the Mandate provisions that are still in force.

  519. I am sure you are quite aware of the game you are playing to take Christ's quotes concerning God the Father to make your twisted case that he did not claim to be a God.

    Your game, however, ignores the vast number of verses where he states he is the Son of God.

    I am not amused by your insincerity and deceptiveness.

  520. Thanks for your perspective on Hinduism.

    I don't think the Bible is that narrow, though I can see where some people desperate for converts may present it as such.

  521. If God is powerful enough to create an infinite universe, why is he not powerful enough to care about each of us?

  522. "When you all are accusing Rasulullah of being a sex maniac (May Allah forgive you for spreading that, Mr. Sina)"

    If you read the Quran in context with the Sira, it will be evident to you that a good deal of the Suras that Muhammad wrote were to justify his lust.

  523. I'm sure you have competent counselors in your town. But they won't be free.

  524. "I hope that one day when it happens to you, you can stand all the miserable feelings"

    So what experience do you have with miserable feelings? Does your husband use pornography?

    The links I gave you about Muslim sexual degeneracy largely indicate that the women are the victims of their bad behavior. If you have suffered from your husband's and your culture's sexual depravity, you have my sympathy. But don't defend that evil religion that created the situation.

  525. Spelled tu quoque.

    Look it up auntie. You may find that that which you don't like is good for you.

  526. All of your anecdotal stories cannot change the underlying facts of Islam. You are running a competition that you cannot win.

  527. As per Vedas, you can be an athiest, monotheist, or even polytheist, as long as you are a good human, God loves you. You do not even have to believe in God or Vedas being divine, it is trully your choice, but God only loooks at your actions. Unlike God of Bible or Quran, where unbelievers are sentenced to eternal hell just because they refuse to believe in Quran or Bible being divine or they refuse to believe in Allah or Jesus. The God of Vedas wants everyone to be rational and logical and no blind believing. Vedas call humans to show compassiona and love to all humanity and animals. This is the beauty of Vedas, and this is the reason why only Vedas seem to be the book or scripture of God.

  528. @Rahul

    Mr Rahul, I being a hindu myself. The only hindu scripture that is not human written are Vedas. The biggest proof of this is that there is no evidence of Vedas being human written. All the other scriptures like Ramayan MBharat, Puranas, and Upanishads were human written but today they have all been adulterated over time due to numerous invasions by greeks persians and arab muslims in India. India has been invaded by many countries and this explains why India is a mixture of various religions today. The only scripture that has not been adulterated or corrupted are the Vedas since they were passed down orally from sage to sage. The good thing about Vedas is that The supreme God of Vedas (ISHWAR, and yes, Vedas believe in monotheism), only looks at a persons deeds. He has set laws of nature to punish bad human beings like criminals and terrorists, and grants happiness to good humans who do good deeds.

  529. Mr Abdullah ihsan, please spent some money and fly to Palestine, Pakistan Afghanistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia and ask all those super faithful mullahs or imams or Ayatollahs and then, you'll find out who in the world told me that dumb Muslims are encouraged to be suicide bombers because of the reward of 72 white skin houris in Allah's paradise and also, do ask all these religious figures why your Rasulullah left out those young Muslims under the age of 14 who were very keen to engage in Islamic wars. They will all in one accord said that Muhammad loves to kiss and suck the tongues of young boys under the age of 14.
    Can't you see and understand that this Rasulullah was a false prophet?

    Jesus Christ is the Author of the Golden Rule and He fulfilled the Golden Rule when He died on the cross on our behalf out of unconditional love. Yes, He taught us:"Love our neighbor as youself". That's the reason why I crucified all my selfishness here and share the good news with you that you have this living hope in Christ, your Lord and Saviour.

  530. That is difficult to reveal. Lot of different concepts are told. If God exists (I being a former atheist Hindu turned agnostic Hindu) one question that must be answered is- HOW WAS GOD BORN? How did God come into existence- if God exists. And if God exists, I certainly do not think that he interfers in human lives. The earth in the universe is like a drop of water in the Ocean and humans on d earth are like a drop again. God will not interfere with tiny, insignificant creatures like us. But if someone believes in God, Hinduism allows that. Hinduism permits people to follow whichever description of God they like- MONETHIESM, polytrheism, idolatory, etc. It is- worship the way you want and dont interfere with other's beliefs. If God exists, He will guide all of us after death, irrespective of which beliefs we follow (including atheists and agnostics).

  531. Hi Mr Hindu2011, I think that many Hindus will be very proud of you for telling the truth here that the Lord Krishna god they worship was just a mystical heroic human being and not the true Living God at all. B)

  532. And Krishna rescued 16000 women from a terrorist, but him marrying all those 16 000 women is a big myth, it never happened. Krishna only had one wife by the name of Rukmini. Krishna devoted his entire life to serve all mankind and even animals.

  533. Oh, my beloved Dr Ali Sina, why this ultimatum if your beloved wife choose to become a porn star? Do you think that divorce is a convenient superfix that will solve the problem of yourr own selfish value system? No wonder so many braindead zombies like Mr Abdullah ihsan prefer to stay put in this Islamic sinkhole because their religion of divorce provided them the fastest and most convenient way to divorce their wives over some minor issues by chanting a word 3 times and that settles it.

  534. @Ali Sina

    Hi Ali Sina, many events associated with Krishna are false. For example, he never had 16 000 wives, this is a huge myth. Krishna only had one wife and he was a noble human being. Now, since many hindu scriptures have been adulterated and interpolated over time due to outside invasions (remember, India was once invaded by arab muslims and they tore down temples and lost hindu scriptures), this is why we such silly rumors about Krishna. Agniveer.com is the best site to learn about hinduism.

  535. What i actually said was we should treat the muslims as they treat (or want to treat) us. Of course if they leave islam they should be given their full rights. A palestian who says he wants his own democratic state, and accepts israels right to exist then israel has no right to oppress or expel such a person, of course if the person says all jews that may live in such a state be killed, along with israel to be wiped of the map then israel would be justified in oppressing or expelling THAT person. On the other hand if israel denied the right of that person to have a democratic palestinian state, then he would be justified in expelling any israeli out of israel who agress with that, but no right whatsover to expel israelis who grant his right to a democratic palestian state.

  536. Oh, my dear Dr Ali Sina, I wish to correct your incorrect point of view when you said that: "Even Satanism is not as evil as Islam." How in the world can a 'wise' man like you made such a horrible declaration? Do you know that those three axis of evil ie. Nazism, Communism and Islam stems from Satanism? Have you watch and read about the testimonies of ex-satanist who exposed all the hideous and inhumane ceremonial practices of this evil religion?

    Please read Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  537. Oh, my dear Mormon John K, the problem is that I can't help myself from not loving him at all. I've fallen into a love whirlpool that draws me deeper and deeper into its eye as I let go of my will power. I desperately need a psychologist like Dr Ali Sina to help me out of my current helpless estate to be a better person in life. Oh, Dr Ali Sina, are you here? Can you please be my doctor Ali Sina for free and offer your good advice and save a helpless lady like me? If yes, I'll write a personal email to you.

  538. I know you hope that the worst things happen to me, but don’t hold your breath because you are going to take this wish to your grave. This happens to people who don’t give proper moral education to their children. Mine are fine.

    You want the definition of morality. It is simple. Read what Muhammad did and do the opposite. Since most of the things he did were immoral and unethical if you do the opposite, most of what you do will be moral and ethical. That should be enough to make you a good person.

    Do unto others as you wish to be done to you is commonsense. It is the bases of justice. It is intuitive and existed in all cultures. That is why it is called golden. The only ideologies that don't adhere to it are Islam, Nazism and communism – the three axis of evil. Even Satanism is not as evil as Islam.

  539. Yes it is personal choice and even my wife can choose to become a porn star.. However, since that does not match with my values, I have the choice to divorce her and I will. What I don't have the right is to beat her or kill her.

    What is your solution as a Muslim? Suppose your wife wants to become a porn star. What would you do? Would you kill her? Isn't it bettet to divorce her and find a woman who shares your values?

  540. Krishna is a myth. Hinduism is a collection of traditions, fables, philosophies and guidelines. Some of that is good and some of that is nonsense. There is a lot of chaff mixed with wheat. Blaming Hinduism is like blaming Americanism. I like a lot of things that has been created by Americans, like their constitution, which I believe is the best in the world and I don’t like a lot of things they do. Hinduism is not believed to be a divine revelation like Islam. A Hindu can pick the good parts of Hinduism and ignore the bad parts. It allows change and growth. Islam does not allow any change and hence there is no growth.

    Also if you show me a thousand things that are wrong in Hinduism, Christianity, or other faiths, all you are doing is engaging in tu queque fallacy. Assuming all other religions are wrong, does this make Islam a true religion?

  541. @ sina

    Obviously you are trying to ignore what Rasulullah was trying to establish with the charter of Medina and deliberately conceal similar atmospheres wherein Islamic rulers let non Muslims practice their rituals.

    Had you been very fair with your sexually-related quote that goes "Some religions are very immoral. For example, in Islam….. blah blah blah" then you would have not overlooked a famous and unique history in Hinduism wherein a royal woman (Drupadi) was marrried to five blood brothers who are to this day believed as the heroes of dharma against evils…..implying that polyandry for any dharma defender is an acceptable norm (as in: Hey dharma people do that, why don't we?) or that their Lord Khrisna married 16,008 women.

    When you all are accusing Rasulullah of being a sex maniac (May Allah forgive you for spreading that, Mr. Sina), what would you say about this noble man Lord Khrisna?

    What is it that prevents you from giving a little insight about these two extraordinarily unique marriages? You honestly haven't read them or is that because you don't want to lose the sympathy of those non-Muslims who have shown you their full supports in spreading unnecessary hatreds against Islam?

    If you may argue all of the stories are myth, then there is Prithvi in this forum to confirm to you whether or not they are.

  542. "Jews don't need to change anything," What about the messianic settlers for one, also when is the war criminal ariel sharon going to stand trial for the September 1982 massacre of Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon. All the zionists and israels should condemn these massacres, and demand that ariel sharon and the IDF soldiers involved should face trial.

    "It is the Arabs who have to leave aside their hatred and accept the Jews as humns with rights." Absouletly but the zionist jews should stop this nonsense of claiming they are the only ones with a right to live in israel and the arabs should be ethically cleansed and denied their right of self-determination.

  543. . "Yes indeed in the 19th century Palestine was a deserted land." This is simple israeli properganda, a ottoman census of 1878 for the jerusalem, nablus, and acre districts reveal only 5.3 percent of the population were jewish. (source http://www.cjpme.ca/documents/En%20Demographics%2

    "The Arabs kept pouring in after the Jews came and gave them work." It was the british first that gave the arabs (from syria and trans-jordan) work.

  544. "The only time Israel will become superfluous is when the hatred against this minority is eliminated. This will not happen as long as Islam lives." Zionism is not the solution to this problem, by puting the jews in one land is not going to stop the hatred of the muslims. It is the responsibility of all the goverments that believe in freedom and equal rights to grant asylum to any persecuted jew (or indeed any oppressed people), i just don`t see how israel and zionism is the solution to anti-semitism.

  545. "Zionist is a person who thinks Jews have a right to their homeland." Yes i said before the jews have a right to live in that land, but what they don`t have a right to do (and einstein would agree) is to throw the non-jews out simple becuse they are not jewish. Zionism is based on the lie (actually 2) "that a land without a people needs a people without a land"

    "In Israel the Jews can defend themselves" Can they defend themselves from a nuclear attack?

    "Why a person should leave her city?" She should not have to leave her city, what should happen (and what is the actual solution to this problem)is that her goverment should find their backbone and deport these muslim thugs, or better yet prevent them from entering in the first place.

  546. @ John K

    I never claimed I am an expert in Bible exegesis.

    I was asking you to explain, wasn't I?

    perhaps you, as 'not amateur' would do that?

  547. @ sina

    I hope that one day when it happens to you, you can stand all the miserable feelings and be a man of your own words.

    By the way, can you further define morality and its sets of limitations?

    you can't simply say: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", can you?

  548. The Golden Rule is not a panacea. It however is the answer to inter-human relationships.

    Watching porn, smoking, drinking, homosexuality, etc. do not affect the society. Therefore it is not up to the government to punish those who engage in these activities. Sometimes these personal activities do affect the society, for example drinking and driving, or incest. One can argue that if incest happens between consenting adults it is not up to the government to intervene or punish. Not so. Accidents happen and those accidents are irreparable. An innocent child can be born with extremely high probability of physical and mental handicap. This is a crime and therefore incest must be a crime. It is a crime even with prevention. The fact that a child is not conceived does not make it any less crime than when you cross a red light and no accident happens.

    The Golden Rule resolves the inter-human conflicts and makes the society fair and just, but it does not address moral issues. However, morality stems from human consciousness and not from religion. Some religions are very immoral. For example, in Islam one can marry one’s first cousin. In most civilized societies this is nearly incest. In Islam one man can have multiple sex partners. In civilized societies this is promiscuity. Islam goes beyond immorality. It is actually a criminal creed. A Muslim sees less evil in honor killing than in a girl dating.

    Now let us agree with your suggestion and throw away the Golden Rule. This means that non-Muslims will treat the Muslims the way Muslims treat the non-Muslims in their countries. So Muslims in the non-Muslim countries will not be able to practice their faith, they will be killed if they proselytize and if anyone converts to Islam they also will also be killed. Muslims cannot run for high offices and will not be given prominent jobs. Like in Pakistan they must do the menial jobs and like in Saudi Arabia that burns the Bible they would burn every Quran.

    How do you like that? Is this what you want us to do?

    No of course not. You want others to follow the Golden rule and sue and cry victim if your rights are violated. But you think Muslims should violate the rights of others. This is a problem of morality, which Muslims lack.

  549. If everyone followed the Golden Rule there wouldn't be any abuse, incest, robbing, fighting, lying, raping, killing, etc.

  550. Print The Myth

    October 4, 2011: In the last decade, the mass media has been covering military matters much more intensively than they had in the previous decade. It showed, in the amount of misinformation and bad analysis that flowed from so many media outlets. As the old saying goes, when presented with the truth and the myth, print the myth. It gets more attention. These are some of the more misleading, but profitable, ones.

    The Invasion of Iraq Was Illegal and Misguided. This was based on the failure to find Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) in Iraq. Actually, several hundred chemical weapons were found, and Saddam had all his WMD scientists and technicians ready to produce more. Just end the sanctions and add money, and the weapons would be back in production within a year. At the time of the invasion, all intelligence agencies, world-wide, believed Saddam still had a functioning WMD program. Saddam had actually shut them down because of the cost, but created the illusion that the program was still operating in order to fool the Iranians. The Iranians wanted revenge on Saddam because of the Iraq invasion of Iran in 1980, and the eight year war that followed. Saddam himself admitted all this after he was captured. As for legality, the 2003 invasion was illegal only according to some in the UN. By that standard, the invasion of Kosovo and bombing of Serbia in 1999 was also illegal. Saddam was already at war with the U.S. and Britain, because Iraq had not carried out the terms of the 1991 ceasefire, and was trying to shoot down coalition aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone.

    Read the rest of the article here:
    http://strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/articles/201

  551. You are an amateur in Bible exegesis, so you are not qualified to comment on these materials that are beyond your comprehension.

  552. @ Arya Anand

    The total number of his wives was not even close to 16,000 if you know what I mean. :)

    Where is Miss Prithvi?

  553. @ John K

    O come on John….. explain to us the following words you’re familiar with:

    “And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18)

    “And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.” (John 8:50)

    So Jesus told them, "My message is not my own; it comes from God who sent me (John 7:16)

    “Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work” (John 4:34)

    “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent me” (John 6:38)

    “I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him” (John 13:16)

    “Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me” (John 8:42)