Ali Sina vs. Sheila Musaji

Even though Sheila Musaji refuses to interact with me directly, apparently she reads my responses and your comments and responds on her site.  She does not think it is necessary to let me know that she has responded.  That is okay. Now that I know how she likes to interact, I will search her site to see her responses.

(If you have not been following this debate please start with An Olive Branch For Sheila Musaji)

Ms. Musaji commented also on my discussion with the Rabbis.  She quoted my initial passages where I said much of the intolerance of Islam is owed to the intolerance in the Old Testament. She then wrote:

Sounds as if he is not only Islamophobic, but also anti-Semitic.  And, a little later in this article this gem appears which shows that at the very least, he is a racist: We Persians are of the same genetic stock as Germans and we had a far superior civilization than Arabs.

It seems that Ms. Musaji has some difficulty in comprehension.   I am against Islam. That does not make me Islamophobic. Islamophobia is a fallacy.  You can say Islam-hater. That I agree.  But one can’t be “phobic” of a belief.  This is a deception. But as Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s propaganda minister said, if a lie is repeated often it will be believed as truth eventually.  A good example is “homophobia.” This is a fallacy.  Homosexuality is a disorder no different from eating disorder or a personality disorder.  Homosexuality is a sexual disorder, like sadomasochism, fetishism, zoophilia and pedophilia. Now these disorders are not all the same and have different implications, but they are all disorders.  I am not a homophobe for considering homosexuality a disorder. Homo means same. I don’t have an irrational fear of men.  But this lie was repeated so much that today most people have fallen for it.  The idea was to stifle any criticism about this subject and they succeeded. It is a tyrany of thought.  All totalitarian systems are fascitic and want to control and manipulate your thoughts Now they even have gay pride parades, as if there is something to be proud of a disorder.  This is how masses are manipulated through propaganda. They shame you into silence. Few people dare to say homosexuality is not normal.  If they do, they will be called biggots.  They even gave it a chichi name: “gay”, meaning happy. This is also a lie. Homosexuals are not happy.

Muslims are using the same deceptive tactic.  They want to stifle the legitimate discussion about Islam.  So they invented this lie and with the help of their leftist lackeys who gave us the fallacy of homophobia they will repeat it until it is seen as truth.   But Islam is an ideology. No one can have an irrational fear of an ideology. You can strongly disagree with an ideology and you can even hate it, but you can’t be phobic of it.  Ideologies don’t have fangs. It is their believers who may have fangs. Now, it would be more logical to say Muslimphobia.  Muslims can hurt you. If you see a group of Muslims coming out of a mosque, you would be wise to run as fast as you can. This poor Hindu in Bangladesh was not Muslimphobic.  He passed in front of a mosque when the worshippers of Allah had just finished their Friday prayer and were coming out of it. They grabbed him, they dragged him inside the mosque, they beat him until he died.

 

It is a fact that people are developing Muslimphobia. They are not becoming Muslimphobic because of what I write, but because of what Muslims do.

What is the best representative of Islam? The Quran or Muslims? Of course every Muslim will agree that the Quran is the best representative of Islam and Muslims don’t represent Islam at all. Well I have a copy of the Quran on my shelf next to me. I am not afraid of it. But I will be  afraid if a Muslim shows up in front of my door. I think this is true for everybody.  So it is clear that Islamophobia is a lie. Muslimphobia is debatable, because phobia is irrational fear and there is nothing irrational about fearing Muslims.

Musaji also calls me anti-Semitic. Why? Just because I exposed two hatemongering rabbis and showed the nonsense written in the Bible?  She is incapable to distinguish beliefs from people. I am a Zionist. I have defended the rights of the Jews as a people to go back to their ancestral land and be left alone.  Israel was a historic necessity. What happened in Europe seventy years ago to this people would never have happened had they had a place to call home where they could take refuge. Many of them sailed to other countries but were denied entry.  Six million of them were gassed and incinerated.  We cannot allow that kind of holocaust again and that is why Israel exists.

Today that the number of Muslims in the west is on the rise,  Jews are again under attack. This time the treat to their lives comes from Muslims. That is why Israel is necessary and as long as there are Muslims, Israel must be protected.

Now, let me make a concession. If one day all Muslims give up following Muhammad and give up their natural hatred of the Jews, I will no longer see a need for Israel.  On that day we all can live in harmony and peace.

But being a Zionist does not mean I agree with the Bible.  Why should I? That is a book of fables. Adhering to it makes people biggoted and hate mongers like those two rabbis. Blind faith makes one intolerant.

I care about people’s rights, not about their beliefs. I don’t care about any belief, not even mine.  You are most welcome to attack my belief.  Beliefs don’t have a right.  Humans have rights. And the foremost of all human rights is freedom of conscience, which cannot exist without freedom of speech.   People are free to believe in what they want and criticize what they want.  This is the foundation of freedom.  Without the freedom to criticize beliefs there is no freedom.

You also called me racist because I said we Persians had a superior civilization to Arabs.   Again you are engaging in a logical fallacy. You want to equate cultures with people.  Some cultures are not culture at all. They are barbarity. A “culture” that practices stoning, amputates the limbs of common thieves, beheads its detractors, considers the minorities as second class citizens, regards its women as sex object and calls them awrat (walking-talking vagina), is not equal to a culture that upholds equality for all its people, irrespective of their faith or gender and practices democracy and freedom.

All cultures are not equal. Cultural relativism is another leftist fallacy.  We Persians had a much more superior culture than the Arabs. But after the invasion of Islam we were reduced into barbarians.  We became like them. Now we are all barbarians. The first charter of human rights was written in Persia more than 2500 years ago.  Today Iran is one of the top violators of human rights. If not to Islam to what else shall we attribute this devolution?

It is not racist to say Muslims are savages any more than to say Nazis were  savages. Islam is an ideology. It is not hacked into our genes. We can give it up and regain our civility.  That is the whole purpose of what I do.  Muslims are drowning in the cesspool of Islam. Just look at the pictures of Muslims when protesting in the streets. If not savages what they are.  Are they civil? Is this what civilized people do? I want to pull them out of Islam and restore their civility and their humanity. Yes they are not even human anymore.

Most Jews have given up their belief in the nonsense of their religion a long time ago.  Most of them don’t believe in religion anymore. Those who do are like those rabbis, filled with bigotry and hate.  But they are the minority. Even when Jews go to synagogues it is for ceremonies.  Religion can be a cohesive force. It brings out the spirit of fraternity and builds community.

The thinking  Jews take the Bible with a lot of salt. I don’t object to that kind of religion.  I know many Jews, Christians, Hindus and people of other faiths that are beacons of light. I don’t agree with their religions, but they are my brothers and sisters in humanity.  If people believe in goodness, if they promote unity among all people, if they don’t discriminate against others on the basis of what they believe, they are my brothers.  Those two rabbis don’t represent the Jews. Several Jews wrote to me and said that those guys are not even Jews. They are messianic Jews. In other words they are Christian evangelists posing as Jews to convert other Jews to Christianity. If they are really disciples of Jesus, they are doing him a great disservice.

You may say there are many Muslims who are moderate too. Yes there are, but the problem is that they, and if not they, their children are at risk to revert to the pure Islam of Muhammad and that is when they become dangerous. I am not saying good humans among Muslims don’t exist. Of course they do. Somone mentioned Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam who was the president of India as an example of a “good Muslim.” Dr. Abdul Kalam is not a good Muslim. He is a good human. In fact he is a very bad Muslim.  Khomeini was a good Muslim.  There are  many good people born among Muslims who even think they are Muslim but they are wonderful human beings. However, if you examine their lives you’ll see that they violate the teachings of Muhammad.  They use their own conscience as compass and not the Quran and the Hadith.  They are good people because they are bad Muslims. The reverse is also true.  The more a person tries to follow Islam and emulate Muhammad the more evil he becomes.

People of other faiths don’t believe that their scriptures are the verbatim words of God – I mean the thinking people. Jews and Christians believe that the Bible was written by inspired men.  When you read the Bible it is clear that it does not claim to be the word of God.  This allows the believers of these faiths to use their own judgment and reject the parts of the Bible that are not savory.  Jews don’t practice stoning. As far as we know they haven’t been practicing this barbaric law for over 2000 years.  Christians don’t regard women as inferior even though Paul made it clear that they are. Muslims don’t have this luxury. The Quran is considered to be the verbatim word of God and you can’t deviate from it.  If you do for a time, it will be short lived. The mullahs can remind the Muslims that they are deviating from the Quran and Islamic extremism will be resurected.

Islam cannot be reformed. You can use it less but you can’t change it. It is like urine in drinking water. Any amount of it is toxic.  In less doses it does not kill you. But the wretched Umma has been sick for 1400 years for drinking this urine. Even though Muslims have not always been as savages as they are today, they have never been civilized.  The difference between you Ms. Musaji, and the types of Bin Laden is not in principle but in degree.  They want the urine of Islam as pissed by Muhammad unadulterated and in its pure state, while you want it diluted with  Americanism.  You can’t stomach the pure Islam.  To their credit they are not hypocrite, but you are.  If Islam is divine why do you want to mix it with American values?  Just stick to what the Quran says and Muhammad did.  Bin Laden was sincer about his faith. You are not.

Criticizing cultures and beliefs is not racism.  There is nothing racist in criticizing a culture that believes in slavery, practices misogyny, thinks women are deficient in intelligence and does not allow them equal rights in the court of law, in inheritance or in marriage. It is okay to denounce a culture that says don’t take people of other faith as friends and leaders (awlia).  It is not racism to say Muhammad was a psychopath like Jim Jones and Hitler, don’t follow that criminal.

So as you see I am not a racist for saying Islam is savagery and I am not an anti-Semite for saying the Torah is a book of fables.

Today I had a sad revelation. My neighbor is out of town and he asked me to take care of his chickens.  Every morning I let the birds out of their coop and throw on the ground a handful of grains. He said this is their treat.  There are a dozen of hens and a rooster. I noticed, while the hens run to eat their treat as fast as they can, the rooster stands by and does not eat. At times he shows his hens where they can find more grains. He himself does not eat the treat.  I was amazed to see these animals, of which we think so little and abuse them so inhumanely, have such a tender feelings for each other. While contemplating on the love these birds have for each other, my heart was filled with sadness by memories of my days living in Pakistan. I lived in Peshawar. This is the most Islamic town of Pakistan. When the Pashtoons invited me to their home, men and boys sat around the food and ate while women and girls stayed in the kitchen. Sometimes they peeped to see when we are done so they can take the leftover to the kitchen and eat their share.  I thought to myself, there is more chivalry, more nobility and more humanity in this rooster than in some of us humans.

But why these people treated their women in such a way? If you read the Sira you’ll see this was the tradition of Muhammad.   This is not culture. This is savagery.  This savagery comes to Muslims through Muhammad and his mysogynistic teachings.

Let us continue:

It is both surprising and not surprising that Ali Sina has now been named to the Board of Directors of the newly formed Stop the Islamization of Nations SION which is a coalition SIOA, SIOE, and other hate groups, and which will be led by Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer.  It is not surprising because of the animosity towards Islam that he shares with Geller and Spencer.  It is surprising because of the fact that Geller herself is Jewish, and Ali Sina seems to have as much animosity towards Judaism as he does against Islam.

Perhaps this is above your ken but what unites Pamela Geller (a Jew), Robert Spencer (a Catholic), Wafa Sultan (a secular humanist), Babu Suseelan (a Hindu) ,and yours truly, is our humanity. We have different beliefs, but we don’t allow that to divide us.  To a Muslim this might be incomprehensible. You see the world divided on religious lines.  We don’t see it that way. We see all mankind as members of one gigantic human family.  We have different tastes in politics and in religion. But we never let them come between us and divide us.

I receive many emails from youths who say they no longer believe in Islam and want to become Christian. I never discourage them. Let me quote what I wrote to one such youth yesterday.

This 22 year old Somali woman wrote to Pamela Geller and told her that she wants to be a Christian.  She added, “However, i know that if my family [comes to] know about this they will surely end my life since it will bring them shame in our community. Once my father found a bible in my drawer and he told me that if he founds it there again he will do something to me that i will regret forever. I feel unsafe here and am looking for a way out please help me before it is too late.”

Pamela asked me to reply and here is a few passages from my email to her:

“Faith is a very personal matter. It is a relationship you have with your God.  No one can take it away from you and you don’t have to speak about it to anyone.   Jesus did not start a new religion. He wants to have a personal relationship with you.  As long as you have him in your heart, he is with you even if you don’t attend any church or interact with other Christians.  

If you live in your parent’s home, you need to live by their rules. Don’t keep a Bible at home and don’t have any cross or anything that may make them think you are a Christian.  You don’t need to do any baptism either.  Love of God is your baptism. Soon you will be out of your parent’s home and will be more independent.

Meanwhile I suggest you act with caution.  Time will pass fast. Study hard and get the best education you can. Education is your key to freedom. If you have a good education you can get hired sooner and afford getting out of your parental home faster. You may even go and live in another city or another country.  

If you want to read the Bible you can find it online. If you want to discuss your faith with anyone you can find Christian communities online.  Don’t share your thoughts with anyone. Study, study and study!  This is the fastest way to your freedom.”

Pamela is a Jew and I am a humanist. But neither of us discouraged this girl from following the path that she had chosen for herself.  We don’t care about people’s faiths. We care about their lives.  We don’t divide mankind along religious lines.  There is no such thing as believers/unbelievers, the faithful and the kafir in our lexicon. What matters, is our humanity and what makes us human is not what we believe, but how we live.

You are a Muslim. You are genuinely incapable to see that we are humans first, and religion is nothing compared to the strong string of humanity that runs through the core of all of us and binds us together like the beads in a rosary.  You see the world from the tainted glasses of Islam. What you don’t know is that those glasses come from the mind of a psychopath narcissist.  Islam is insanity.  This is not an insult.  This is my thesis and I have proven it. Read my book and you too will agree.

You then continued:

The Southern Poverty Law Center published a report citing Geller for hate speech.  The AFDI has been named a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.  The American Freedom Defense Initiative is the parent group of the SIOA.  Spencer, Geller, and Yerushalmi are featured in the SPLC reports Jihad Against Islam and The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle.

Yes I know. These traitorous leftist organizations are your lackeys.  What unites them with you Muslims is your common hatred of the Judeo-Christian western values.  But they are stupid.  They think by supporting fellow haters of the western values they will be stronger and you will help them to come to power. All they have to do to see their folly is to talk to fellow commies from Iran. Let them talk with Maryam Namazi from UK.  Namazi and her comrades were instrumental in the revolution of 1979 in Iran. They threw their lot with Islamists. But they were the first who were eliminated when Khomeni took power.  If Islam ever comes to power in Europe or in America, all those left leaning organization that today defend Islam will be the first to be eliminated.  Those who don’t read the history, tend to repeat the same errors.

Pamela Geller and her organizations don’t become hate groups just because a bunch of moon-bat leftists says so.  Pamela has demonstrated her compassion and care for countless hapless and helpless young Muslims whose own families have turned against them.  Young Muslims write to her from all over the world asking for help. This woman should be awarded the Nobel Prize for her humanitarianism and for her compassion.  Alas the Nobel Prize committee is so politicized that they think charlatans like Arafat, Obama and Al Gore are more deserving for that prize than good humans who truly serve mankind.

One of the saddest stories is when Gore was granted the Nobel Prize for lying about global warming there was a 92 years woman named Irene Sendler, who was also a nominee.  She had saved some 2,500 Jewish children from the Nazi Holocaust by smuggling them out of Warsaw Ghetto, in her basket.  I felt a lump in my throat when I read her story and  that instead of her the committee chose this filty liar.

I don’t give a damn about those organizations calling Pamela Geller a hate monger.  I can see how much she cares about people. I saw how she took to heart the case of Rifqa Bari and protected that beautiful soul when her parents wanted to kill her.

Where were you to protect Rifqa? Why young Muslims don’t write to YOU to protect them from their families and write to Pamela?  Because they know you are a hypocrite Islamist and all you care is your damn religion, but Pamela is a humanitarian who cares about them and is not concerned about what religion they believe.  I have seen people write to her and say they want to stay Muslim but just want to be free from the tyranny of their parents and Pamela still advised them compassionately and tried to help them without ever telling them they should leave Islam first.

 Pay Pal at least temporarily suspended Geller’s site Atlas Shrugs for being a hate site.

Sure! They did it because a bunch of Muslims like you lied about her and libled her of spreading hate.  When Pay Pal realized they had been duped they reversed their decision.

You then said

Spencer and Geller attempted to patent the SIOA trademark, but were refused by the U.S. patent office The government response, posted on the site, states, “The applied-for mark refers to Muslims in a disparaging manner because by definition it implies that conversion or conformity to Islam is something that needs to be stopped or caused to cease.”

 That is because our Governments are misled. They consider Islam a religion and as such it is protected.  That is why we formed SION (Stop Islamization Of Nations) to educate and to unmask Islam.  Islam is not just a religion. It is more a political ideology of domination. It must be classified as such. It is more akin to communism and Nazism than it is to other faiths. Muhammad said al Islamo deenun wa dawla (Islam is both religion and government.) One cannot be separated from another. This is what people don’t know. It will take some time to make the world aware of it. But we are patient and determined.  More prominent people are joining SION from all over the world. We are poised to become a powerful international force.  And we will go after traitors who sell their country for vote.  We will expose them. We know that anytime a politician supports Islam we have to follow the money trail to find a skeleton in their closet. That is what we intend to do.

 The Center for American Progress released a groundbreaking report Fear Inc.: The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America.  The key researchers for this report were Wajahat Ali, Eli Clifton, Matthew Duss, Lee Fang, Scott Keyes, and Faiz Shakir.  The report itself is the result of a six month investigative project, and is 132 pages in length.  Geller is cited as part of this network.

Oh really!? So a bunch of Muslims and their minions got together and cited Geller as Islamophobe? And what else is new?  I repeated many times that Islamophobia is a fallacy. Geller is a defender of the Western civilization.

Musaji quotes several other organizations that are either run by Muslims or are sympathetic to Islam that denounce the critics of Islam as “Islamophobe”. In her opinion this is “evidence.”  In Persian we have a saying: They asked the fox who will testify on your behalf, he said my tail. Or better than that is when Allah backs up Muhammad.  Who gives a damn if Muslims and their minions call us hate monger? This is circular reasoning.  I talk about facts and I have shown that we are not hate mongers, but Muslims are.

 

 

Update 1/28/2012

The following is my response to Sheila Musaji’s response to me dated 1/26/2012.

Despite the fact that I almost always addressed her directly, Musaji never addressed me directly. This lady’s heart is so much filled with hatred of me that she can’t bring herself to call me by my name and speak to me directly. That is fine. I will speak to her directly. I have no hatred for her. She is only a misguided soul.

Dear Ms. Musaji,

I wrote a long response and asked you specific questions. For example when you said “I strongly uphold freedom of faith,” I asked you to explain the wars of apostasy in Islam and the actions of Muhammad, the Guided Caliphs, and the practice of killing the apostates in all the history of Islam and all Muslim countries. You ignored the subject altogether.

You quoted the verse 2:256 where it says there is no compulsion in religion, but ignore me when I quoted several other verses that say kill those who don’t believe. I asked you to explain the discrepancy and you chose to ignore that too.

I showed how Mawdudi has resolved the apparent contradiction and has shown that the verse about “no compulsion in religion” is just a misunderstanding.  You ignored that too.

I told you about my neighbors’ rooster who in my opinion has more chivalry, more nobility and more humanity in the way he treats his hens than many Muslims who treat women so badly and I showed that this misogyny among Muslims is because of the teachings and examples of Muhammad. You ignored the subject altogether.

My response contained many important points that you ignored. Instead you took an issue when I said you have dedicated your entire energy in maligning the critics of Islam and said that had I looked more carefully I would have seen that you also write about other subjects.

Yes you are right. I take that back. You also write about other subjects. Probably I should have been more careful in the choice of my words and should have said you dedicate MOST of your energy in maligning the critics of Islam. I apologize for that. You do indeed write about other thing.

Well, when you are right, you are right. I acknowledge my error. Will you do the same? Are you capable of acknowledging your errors?

You wrote:
“On TAM, we regularly call out those within the Muslim community that I identify as the “lunatic fringe”, discuss various interpretations of aspects of Sharia, condemn any interpretations that violate human rights.

Good! I am happy to hear that you do that. But what if those whom you identify as “lunatic fringe” are the ones who understands Islam correctly? What if Islam and human rights are not compatible?  Why is it that the ones who are more dedicated to Islam and try to practice it best are the ones that violate human rights? Could it be that there is something in Islam that contradicts human rights?

Let us see a few examples:

According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, men and women have equal rights. Please note that functions and rights are not the same.  Does Islam recognize the equal rights between man and woman?  It doesn’t. I already mentioned a few examples and I can show you dozens more.

According to the UDHR all people have equal rights? Does Islam agree with this?

In Saudi Arabia the blood money for a person depends on his or her religion and gender. Here is a break down:

  • 100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
  • 50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
  • 50,000 riyals if a Christian man
  • 25,000 riyals if a Christian woman
  • 6,666 riyals if a Hindu man
  • 3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman

According to this hierarchy, a Muslim man’s life is worth 33 times that of a Hindu woman. This hierarchy is based on the Islamic definition of human rights and is rooted in the Quran and the Sharia. It can be found on The Risala of ‘Abdullah ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (310/922 – 386/996), A Treatise on Maliki Fiqh. You can read the full text here.

Do you agree with this hierarchy?  This is the concept of the human rights in Islam.  This is the interpretation of Muslim scholars of the Quran and there is consensus.  Is this your understanding of human rights? And if not on what basis you propose to change it?

The UDHR and the Islamic human rights are not the same. Based on the former, the latter is in violation.  Which one you uphold?

You bragged that you converted to Islam 40 years ago and presented your conversion as evidence that there is no compulsion in conversion. I pointed out that everyone does silly things when they are young and the conversion of an inexperienced young woman is hardly a valid evidence of the truth of things that she embraces.  You did not give any objective evidence to the truth of Islam.  You presented you own conversion as evidence. But the conversion of a young girl can be subjective.  It’s of no value to others.  Then you get upset when I scuff at it as evidence.  You say “This is simply a nasty, speculative, and meaningless attack on me as an individual that deserves nothing but contempt.” If you are so sensitive about it, you should not have presented it as evidence.

In this response you answered none of my arguments. You ignored my questions altogether. The only thing you talked about is how your petal delicate sensitivity was hurt when I scuffed at your evidence.  Your conversion is meaningless to us. Even the conversion of a learned and wise person is meaningless, let alone the conversion of a young girl who may have converted because she had fallen in love with a Muslim guy.

So basically your response had no answers. But you had to say something. So you quoted two commentators, Sundried Atheist and Enlightened 25 to find me guilty by association.

These two individuals are not my disciples. In fact I have had several encounters with them and have chided both of them. They are more disciples of Richard Dawkins. That is why I don’t share the views of Prf. Dawkins because I see the fruit and I don’t like it.  Both these individuals are anti-Semites and the former person actually thinks women should cover themselves. So go figure.  They have nothing of me.

Then you wrote another article on 1/28/2012 in response to my long article (above). But you say nothing there either.  You don’t address any of the arguments or bother to answer any of my questions. You merely quoted a few of my passages and summarize:

“Here is the gist of his argument:  I hate Islam, but that is not Islamophobia. I believe that “Muslims are savages”, but I am not a bigot.  I believe that “Homosexuality is a sexual disorder, like sadomasochism” but I am not homophobic.  I believe that Judaism is a religion of “nonsense”, those who believe in it are “filled with bigotry and hate”, but I am not an anti-Semite.  I believe that my culture is superior to others, but I am not a racist.  Terms like Islamophobia or homophobia are lies, there is no such thing.  I am sorry, but there is such a thing as anti-Semitism, there is such a thing as Islamophobia, there is such a thing as homophobia, there is such a thing as racism.  You can object to the use of one or all of those words, but the bottom line is that no matter what you call this ideology, it is hateful bigotry.”

Looks like my suspicion about your difficulty to comprehend things is correct. A child understands what I wrote but you didn’t. Let me repeat.

Hating Islam does not make one Islamophobe because this word is a fallacy. One cannot fear an ideology. One cannot be a Christianophobe for example.  What part of this you don’t understand?

To say Muslims are savages is stating the obvious. Stating the truth does not make one a bigot.  Isn’t stoning savagery? Don’t Muslims practice stoning? There are many other Islamic practices that prove Islam is savagery.  What part of this you don’t understand?

Homosexuality is a disorder and homophobia is a lie. I have no fear of men and not even of homosexuals. I don’t see homosexuality as something shameful, in the same way I don’t see obesity as something shameful. But both obesity and homosexuality are disorders. What part of this you don’t understand?

I am a Zionist. I have defended Israel since always, even before I denounce Islam. But like Einstein and Espinosa and multitude other Jewish thinkers, I don’t believe in the fables of the Bible. Would you say that Einstein was an anti-Semite? Religion and people are two different things. I am with the people, but I don’t care about beliefs. What part of this you don’t understand?

I did not say my culture is superior to others. You truly have a very poor comprehension.  I said Iranian culture was superior to Arab culture before we were invaded by the marauding Muslims. Today, thanks to Islam we are just as barbarians as our invaders.  Why recognizing that some cultures are superior to others would make one a racist? Can’t you see the difference between race and culture?

And yes both Islmaophobia and homophobia are lies.  Repetition does not make them true. What part of this you don’t understand?

You ignored all my arguments and when you responded, you made it clear that you have a poor comprehension.  You are no scholar dear Sheila Musaji. You are not an intellectual and you are not even intelligent.  You are the fifth column that aims to “eliminate and destroy the Western civilization from within and sabotage their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all religions.”

I don’t think you will respond.  I think by now you must have realized  that I destoryed you.  The more you write the more you expose your vulnerability.   But in case you decide to respond, please go to the bathroom and cough strongly. See if you can spit out that hatred that you have for me out of your chest and then go back and read what I wrote from the beginning.

This debate continues here

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457 Responses

  1. chenku says:

    ya..ya..ya..blah..blah..blah..blah..just wait until you all die..then you will know that whatever that you've wrote is false-? however, thank you very much for showing your true color. ISLAM IS THE BEST! ALLAH IS GREAT ND MUHAMMAD S.A.W. IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH S.W.T!

  2. @GENERALNEEL says:

    the Best article ever read about Religious beliefs n freedom of conscience……

  3. Arsaath says:

    Ali Sina! Like To Work Wihe You

  4. mystic19 says:

    知 者 不 言 , 言 者 不 知 。
    I am thankful to know the existence of Allah (SWT). Seek His guidance all the time.

    • Ali Sina says:

      You are confusing knowing with believing. You don\’t know of the existance of Allah, you just believe he exists. Knowledge should be based on facts.

  5. Taru_Dutt says:

    Mr. Sina, I fully support your right to criticize Islam, but please try and understand that homosexuality is not a "disorder." It's a natural inclination and we all can have a wide sexuality spectrum – bisexual, gay, heterosexual. Please, do your homework with the same courage and patience as you have done it about Islam, and you will end up far more open-minded about human sexuality than you are now. Take the same challenge of open-mindedness that you have issued to Islam and you will discover that "normal" sexuality is not confined to heterosexuality in the human or in the animal world. I have hope that a man as thoughtful and open-minded as you can be brought to see this truth.

    If you continue to diminish people who are gay or bisexual as "abnormal," or having a "disorder," you will turn away those young people who have realized they are gay or bisexual and who are afraid of being judged and condemned as having a "disorder," when in fact they are quite normal. Many of these young people pass their lives in great emotional pain and some even turn to self-destruction when they find that their family and community simply does not accept them for who they are. Some of these young people may be Muslim who could benefit from your encouragement to them to criticize Islam. But once they see that you do not accept them for who they ARE (gay, bisexual)- as opposed to what they BELIEVE (Islam) you will lose these growing minds forever, for no-one likes to be told that what they are by nature is illegitimate, invalid, unacceptable.

    Once again I implore you to rethink your views on homosexuality. Gay and bisexual people are all natural beings with the same rights to be who they are as everybody else.

    • Ali Sina says:

      Believe it or not, several years ago I debated with a Muslim guy and told him the exact same thing you tell me now. Someone wrote and said I should do my homework before repeating what others say. I realized I actually have very little understanding of the phenomenon and decided to deepen my knowledge .I even joined a lesbian club pretending to be a straight woman just curious about the lesbian lifestyle. You will be shocked to know that double standard and the self-deception that exists among the homosexuals. I found that homosexuality is actually a learned behavior. You can learn it at infancy or at any age.

      I started writing about it and wanted to publish a book on it. I lost my files when my old computer crashed. This is about seven or eight years ago. I did not have the will power to rewrite everything, plus I have to focus on one thing.

      Homosexuality is a disorder. The sad thing is that when it is not even recognized as such, it only spread. You can’t cure a disease if you think it is normal.

      Homosexuality can be cured just as it can be contracted. The first step is to acknowledge that it is a problem. It is not genetic. That is a big lie. I heard this lie said even by Richard Dawkins. But it is absurd. If it were genetic it would have disappeared. The explanation he gave made no sense at all as to why it has not gone extinct. Homosexuality exists in all animals. Animals are not subject to social conditioning as humans are. Therefor Dawkins argument is mute.

      Homosexuality, like pedophilia, necrophilia or all other sorts of paraphilia is a disorder. Let us face it and solve it.

    • Concerned says:

      I've heard about married men being bisexual and the wives don't know. Is this also abnormal or classied the same as being a homosexual. Oh yes, how will a woman know that a man is bisexual because such tendencies are not visible as it is in homosexual.

    • Taru Dutt says:

      If you are indeed Ali Sina, as a heterosexual person I'm afriad I'm no longer able to take you seriously. Homosexuality may be a "phase" or an experiment for some, but even if it, there is nothing inherently unhealthy about such experimenting. The existence of whatever "lies" and "self-deception" you found among the homosexual comunit, even if true, does not logically lead to the conclusion that homosexuality or bisexuality is an aberration. If that were so, heterosexuals would have to be the biggest perverts of all. I would think that when a community is suppressed and reduced to a subculture within the mainstream, members of that community would have a difficult time living freely and honestly in any case. A woman in Islam who is forbidden to date may lie about meeting her boyfriend. Would that make islam guilty, or the woman?

      I can see that youhave made up your mind on this, and thus have become no different from the hundreds of many Muslims who may have made up their minds about your arguments – who refuse to accept the validity of your criticism of Islam even AFTER having read what you have to say. Such people have interest in reason or logic. They, too, may offer arguments analogous to those that you have offered about the chracter flaws of people in the LGBT community. That is, they may say, they have seen great "immorality" and 'licentiousness," in the non-Muslim community, and from that observation leap to the coclusion that Islam is the only basis for true morality. But as you and I know quite well, such is not the case.

      Far from being a "learned behaviour' with many people, bisexuality or a strong natural attraction to the same sex is simply the way they are. Young people who have discovered their gay or bisexuality undergo enormous mental trauma when they are told that they are not acceptable for who they naturally are. If you spoke of empirical data collected by yourself, there are countless horror stories of people being subjected to "treatment" in order to "cure" their "disorder" – magnifying unspeakably their already existing torment at being considered "abnormal" and freakish by a society without knowledge, without understanding, without compassion. A society that claims to know them better than they know themselves.

      Believe me, Mr. Sina, if you were able to shed your prejudices and approach the LGBT issue with an open mind, you would change your views in the very same way that many Muslims who have truly listened to your views on Islam have changed their views on Islam.A Muslim who is able to admit he or she was wrong aboutIslam should be commended for his courage and self-examination. One would respect her or him the more for admitting error than for clinging to pre-conceived views even after being shown that these were fallacious. In the same way, all freethinkers who are now your supporters and who know that sexuality is a wide spectrum and that sexual attraction between consenting adults of the same or opposing sexes the most natural thing in the world, wil respect you the more for having admitted that you were in error and that you have now changed your mind. Although I am, perhaps, foolish to hope, yet I shall continue to look forward to the day that you will admit the legitimacy of the LGBT community- not for your sake or mine, but for the sake of those young people now deathly afraid of expressing their true sexuality in conservative communities. They need all the support they can get, especially those among them who are beginning to question religion as well. If you are unable to change your mind when faced by facts, it would be useless to expect millions of Muslims, when faced by the facts about Islam, to do so in their turn. For the sake of humanity, in the name of reason, consider displaying the same openness that you ask of them.

    • Taru Dutt says:

      Correction : The second sentence in the second paragraph of the longer comment should read: "Such people have no interest in reason or logic."

    • babaji says:

      Homosexuality can be cured with due course in Ayurveda medicine. If you are lesbian take shatavari 500 mg daily thrice with triphala ras 2 teaspoon twice for 4 months.If you are a gay take ashwagandha 600 mg daily thrice with triphala ras 2 teaspoon twice for 4 month initially then increase 50 mg per month upto 1 year.Both drugs are best proved as adaptogens.

    • darkfire316 says:

      Lol then why are there so many gays in India if it was that easy?

    • Ali Sina says:

      Homosexuality is a psychological disorder. I don\’t know how your medication can cure it. It needs therapy not medication. But I know close to nothing about Ayurveda.

    • enlightened25 says:

      “I found that homosexuality is actually a learned behavior. You can learn it at infancy or at any age.” There is as little reason to say homosexuality is learned as to say it is inherited. All people are both female and male to some extent as we both have one male and female parent. There is no “absolute man” who is 100% masculine or a “absolute women” who is 100% feminine. No man is attracted to all women and vice versa. I have heard this theory which makes sense this is due to the level of “maleness” and “femaleness” in individuals. For example a man who is 75% masculine will be attracted to a women who is 75% feminine. What makes most sense is we are bisexual but due to environmental factors or whatever else become practically unisexual either in the normal or inverted sense. It is also important to note there is no friendship between men unless their has been some attraction to draw them together. Much of the affection between men is due to the presence of unsuspected sexual compatibility.

    • enlightened25 says:

      “Homosexuality can be cured just as it can be contracted.” Most times this is tried it almost always it ends in failure. This failure from this view is to be expected the curer suggests to the subject the image of a “typical” women completely ignorant of the innate differences in him and unaware that such a type is naturally repulsive to him. If this idea was used then it would point to the most man-like women – the lesbian type. If a cure for homosexuality had to be sought then this theory offers the solution.

    • darkfire316 says:

      "If it were genetic it would have disappeared.The explanation he gave made no sense at all as to why it has not gone extinct."

      We still have vestigial parts that have not disappeared. Your wisdom teeth, your pinky, etc. A lot of our genetic coding is also unnecessary and is just excess code from billions of years of evolution that no longer has a valid function. Just because something is not useful doesn't mean it will automatically be weeded out.

      You explained this beautifully in your article on masculinity. We as a species should no longer be screening based on feminity and masculinity, but mainly on health, compatibility, status, and stability. However this means of screening still remains.

      "Homosexuality exists in all animals. Animals are not subject to social conditioning as humans are."

      This proves its basis is at least somewhat genetic. Dawkins argument is not mute because a gene could be adapted to be advantageous in another environment. The sense of smell in dogs for instance helps it catch prey. This has proved to be very useful in another setting as dogs can now use this ability to sniff out drugs.

      "Homosexuality, like pedophilia, necrophilia or all other sorts of paraphilia is a disorder. Let us face it and solve it."

      I don't doubt that all of these things can be learned. However to deny that there is a hormonal and genetic component to homosexuality is going against numerous scientific journals and data.

    • Ali Sina says:

      The alleged homosexual gene is not comparable to wisdom teeth. You can pass a gene that is not needed for ever. There is no reason for that gene to disappear if it does not impede procreation. A homosexuality gene intervenes with procreation.

      Any argument presented in defense of homosexuality can also be presented to defend pedophilia and zoophilea. All of these are disorders. People want to be politically correct and believe in any absurdity.

      The fact that homosexuality exists in animals does not prove that its basis is genetic. On the contrary! It proves that it is not. That is why I said it. Dawkins argued that homosexual people were forced to act as heterosexual throughout the history and that is why this gene was not eliminated. But animals are not forced to do anything.

      Scientific journals are nonsense. Show me one scientific fact that homosexuality is genetic. There is not such fact. There is no such gene. Homosexuality is learned. The argument most homosexuals say is, “I have been always homosexual.” This is not fact. They have learned to be homosexual at a very early age. It can happen in infancy or at any time in one’s life. Most homosexual say they “did not know they were homosexual until later in life.” Humbug. They want to fool themselves. They just became homosexual and don’t want to admit it.

      A small number of homosexual are actual phisically deformed. They are the only homosexuals. The reat just decided to become one and the society even encourages it.

      Is it a perversion? I don’t know. I don’t care about passing judgement. All I know is that it is a disorder no different fromm pedophilea or zoophilia. Is being a transvestite normal? Of course not! It is a mental disorder. But is it harmful? No it is not. If a man wants to dress like a woman. Let him do it. Who cares. But don’t say it is normal and don’t promote this mental disorder as natural. The same is ture about homosexuality.

    • darkfire316 says:

      "You can pass a gene that is not needed for ever. There is no reason for that gene to disappear if it does not impede procreation. A homosexuality gene intervenes with procreation."

      If a gene is recessive, or if it is a combination of genes, or if it is hidden and only triggered by changes in the environment then the gene can indefinitely stay within the species. All these genetic factors can be passed on by heterosexual people. Here is an amazing example which shows the evolution of foxes which parallels the evolution of dogs. Traits that would have normally never been phenotypically apparent were triggered through breeding for timidness. Less adrenaline in the system triggered these genes and furthermore their phenotypic changes. Similarly if homosexuality is genetic, it can be brought to the forefront by environmental, hormonal, and breeding within the human species.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbcwDXhugjw

      "Any argument presented in defense of homosexuality can also be presented to defend pedophilia and zoophilea. All of these are disorders. People want to be politically correct and believe in any absurdity. "

      I would argue the opposite. People who are pedophiles are often sexually abused as youths and become pedophiles themselves. Their brains are different than homosexuals and heterosexuals.
      http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10

      Furthermore the rate of homosexuality in all countries remains relatively the same, while rate of pedophiles is much higher in countries where children are routinely sexually abused. I was reading Ibn Warraq's book "Why The West is Best" and the statistics of pedophilia were staggeringly higher in Islamic Countries like Pakistan than in western countries.

      "The fact that homosexuality exists in animals does not prove that its basis is genetic. On the contrary! It proves that it is not. That is why I said it. Dawkins argued that homosexual people were forced to act as heterosexual throughout the history and that is why this gene was not eliminated. But animals are not forced to do anything."

      Genetecist Simon Levay says: Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.

      This disposition could have manisfest itself as a useful function within the human species in the same theoretical useful function which Dawkins postulated. But his theory is just a theory. We don't know for sure.

      "Scientific journals are nonsense. Show me one scientific fact that homosexuality is genetic."

      Dr. Sina how can you say scientific journals are nonsense? Scientists can be biased but journals show the methodology and data of the experiment. It puts it up for public scrutiny and the validity of the study is measured from therein by the scientific community. Scientific journals are the closest means to objectivity we have in this imperfect world where individuals can write whatever they want for subjective gains.

      This is a study that was done on twins: http://www.springerlink.com/content/2263646523551

      There are many more. All you need to do is search on google scholar

      "Is it a perversion? I don't know. I don't care about passing judgement. All I know is that it is a disorder no different fromm pedophilea or zoophilia. Is being a transvestite normal? Of course not! It is a mental disorder. But is it harmful? No it is not. If a man wants to dress like a woman. Let him do it. Who cares. But don't say it is normal and don't promote this mental disorder as natural. The same is ture about homosexuality."

      If in my research I find that you are right, I will apologize. You have been right about many things and you have changed my life. I see that we come to the same conclusion about homosexuals but we just disagree about the causes.

  6. Moor says:

    Ali Sina again shown for the bigot he truely

    Claiming Muslims are Nazis yet showing in your own writing that you are the one who is fact is more like a Nazis then anyone else you accuse

    -Moor

  7. Terrence says:

    Sheila Musaji has actually made mincemeat out of Sina on her site.

  8. John2find says:

    Hi Ali Sina,

    I have a Suggestion and a query for which I need your suggestion:

    Suggestion for you:

    I read one of your post were a Muslim guy tried arranging a debate between you and Dr.Zakir Naik and were they have promised to provide you full safety for a one on one debate. I am happy you that you did not fell in their trap. Never ever reveal who you are, unless you are on the verge of death, because Islamic world had sharpened their knives hard enough to behead you once they know who is actually Ali sina. Their had been fatwas raised against you. They may conceive you that they will provide you protection but some of their fellow colleague terrorist will follow you and will know you who you are. And you know what they do to people like you (you + me)

    I repeat never ever go to any one on one debate taking live, how so ever protection they may give but you life will be at far more risk.

    Debating on email is the best as one can re-read opposition and take time to rethink to understand each individuals philosophy. SO keep debating only on email or any other safe means. And I know how repeated each muslim is when they debate same point again and again to discuss with same emotions with the same ignorance to understand the truth which you have told several times. A single debate is enough for an intellect to understand the Evilness of Islam, but still keep on discussion so that you can shake the belief of as many as of them and free others form Islamic evil cult.

    I have read you many articles and I think like how closely you have understood the true Human values, the actual religion. I am impressed BY your.

    Need suggestion for my below query:

    I want to eliminate this evil religion Islam from earth ,but i am afraid enough as it is natural that Muslim terrorist with their so called Peaceful religion and peaceful beheading of Non Muslim (and even muslims) people have made me coward to come forward and openly oppose this evil cult Islam, by educating others about the true nature of Islam.(I have no hate to any Muslims but hate their religion Islam)

    So what all can I do to oppose this evil cult and educate others without keeping my life on danger?

    • Ali Sina says:

      You have to do it through the Internet annonymously.

    • A Source says:

      Eliminating evil will blow up this world anonymously.

    • Ali Sina rock! says:

      By not evening knowing what islam is about but then to find out they they would "promised to provide you full safety for a one on one debate," that tells what idiotic, insane, crazy, barbaric, uncivilized, fear-inflicting, murderous, demonic, evil, violent "religion" islam is. Islamic religion is an oxymoron. Islam demeans the word "religion".

  9. Agracean says:

    Dear Ms Sheila Musaji, do you know that a picture speaks a thousand words? Kindly open your super big panda eyes wide and take a good look at the above horrific picture of a innocent Hindhu, being beaten to death by all those super devout faithful Muslims inside the mosque, after a Friday prayer meeting. Please be brutally honest with yourself, me and our dear Dr Ali Sina. Do you feel peaceful at all after looking at it? If yes, then, please continue to bury your shitty head in the desert sand and get ready to join Muhammad in his hellish paradise. If no, then, perhaps you may wish to submit your your resignation letter to Muhammad and renounce this stinky religion of violence and death and embrace the author of the Golden Rule, Who is also Way, the Truth and the Life. Alternatively, you may wish to email to an extraordinary human being like Dr Ali Sina who always uphold the Golden Rule in his life. I believe that he is the best neighbour in this world to help you to get out of Islam.

  10. Shrek says:

    Hindu Scriptures are the authority and they are authorized by self realized souls and any human being on earth can achieve that state through recommended practices in hinduism. A brahmin is the teacher and interpreter of hindu scriptures. He doesn't have the authority to create hindu scriptures.

    An 'authorized' and 'proven' guru is above Vedas. Any human being can achieve this state and there is a procedure to identify this approved state.

    Do you think anybody can counter Christ and Bible? Vatical Pope from catholicism can counter them? !!!

  11. Shrek says:

    El padrino,

    Here is the logic you should have concentrated on:

    The main point which never occurred to you is what is the remedy for inhuman edicts, considering they exist, in hinduism and other abrahamic religions, IF proved definitively, from the standpoint of humanism.

    In one word, NONE for Abrahamic religions. DEFINITE for hinduism as long as a single human being exists on earth !!!

    In Christianity and Islam, authority (christ and muhammed) is DEAD. You cannot change anything now.

    Hinduism's ultimate authority lies in each human being's soul. You cannot prove this statement wrong and I have given you exact answers when you countered me and told me that brahmin (uppermost caste) is the authority on what hindus should do !!!

  12. Shrek says:

    'I'm done having these discussions.I've wasted precious time going in round in circles answering the same questions over & over.'

    You are wrong. You are a triumphalist. Muslims tell the same thing – they already proved, they already answered.

    Do you think readers are fools like you?

  13. Shrek says:

    Also El padrino is doing that against a hindu, not a non-hindu.

    To counter a hindu, EL padrino at the least should have read some concepts – not the christian beggar's concepts – upper caste condeming lower castes, aryan invasion theory.

    • El Padrino says:

      Shrek

      I'm done having these discussions.I've wasted precious time going in round in circles answering the same questions over & over.

  14. Shrek says:

    What kind of sick retarded followers christianity produces I can clearly see now.

    A community college educated guy who didn't read anything about hinduism, didn't read vedas is criticising hinduism on a site which repeatedly asks not to criticize any other religion than Islam.

  1. 28 January, 2012

    [...] Ali Sina vs. Sheila Musaji by Ali Sina On January 28th, 2012 [...]

  2. 29 January, 2012

    [...] Ali Sina vs. Sheila Musaji by Ali Sina On January 28th, 2012 [...]

  3. 30 January, 2012

    [...] This debate continues here [...]

  4. 31 January, 2012

    [...] indomitable Ali Sina of Faith Freedom has been in a discussion of sorts with Sheila Musaji of The American Muslim, who is an established liar. His latest piece addressed [...]

  5. 10 January, 2013

    … [Trackback]…

    [...] Find More Informations here: alisina.org/blog/2012/01/28/ali-sina-vs-sheila-musaji/ [...]…

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