The Golden Rule and Islam

The Golden Rule and Islam

This article was written in May, 2009

Our friend Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch, the indefatigable defender of the Western civilization, send me the following email and asked me to answer the criticism of a Muslim of an article that I wrote four years ago on the incompatibility of Islam and the Golden Rule.  Here is this Muslim’s email and my response to him.

Recently I came across an attack on your piece on Islam and the Golden Rule. These passages below were cited in refutation. Any guidance you can give me on responding to this would be greatly appreciated.

Islamic Text on the Golden Rule:

The Quran:

“Serve God, and join not any partners with Him; and do good – to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess [the slave]: For God loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious” (Q:4:36)

(In fact the Quran goes beyond saying the Golden Rule by stating in more than four places that “Return evil with Kindness.” (13:22, 23:96, 41:34, 28:54, 42:40)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh):

“None of you have faith until you love for your neighbor what you love for yourself” (Sahih Muslim)

“Whoever wishes to be delivered from the fire and to enter Paradise…should treat the people as he wishes to be treated.” (Sahih Muslim)

“None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself” (Forty Hadith-Nawawi)

“None of you is a believer if he eats his full while his neighbour hasn’t anything.” (Musnad)

“Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourselves.” (Abu Dawud)

“Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.” (Farewell Sermon)

“There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Ibn- Majah)

The Quran is a book of contradictionc. Indeed, there are exhortations to Muslims to be kind to the poor, the traveler, the orphan and the sick.  This is to be expected. If you want to start a religion you must preach something good or you’d not find anyone to believe you.  You cannot preach only evil. In order to attract followers you must teach things that people like and can easily identify as good. Once they accept you as a prophet, guru or their spiritual guide, then you can do whatever you want and get away with it.

The difference between a true spiritual teacher and a conman is in their consistency. There are several teachings of Muhammad that can be compared to those of Jesus, but the teachings of Jesus are consistent while those of Muhammad are not.  Even a criminal can give you good advises, this does not mean he is a good person.

When I was growing up there was a radio show in Iran called A City within Our City.  Every week the producer would interview a prison inmate on death roll and the criminal would tell his life story and what brought him to crime. At the end of the program the producer would ask whether the criminal had any advice for young people. These criminals often had the best advises. They knew exactly the difference between right and wrong. I recall thinking; if only someone compiled the advices of these criminals he could write the best book of guidance. Good words are dime a dozen. If words are not accompanied by deeds they are worthless.  In fact the difference between a great man and a conman is in the measure that their words and deeds coincide or differ. Demagogy is the domain of all charlatans and they are good at it.

We find similar good exhortations in the teachings of Jim Jones who based his religion on “social justice”. He adopted children from many races to set the example.

The problem with the good teachings of Muhammad is that they are reserved for fellow Muslims. When the hadith says, “None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself,” it is talking about the brothers in faith.

The brotherhood in Islam does not extend to everyone. The Quran (9:23) states that the believers should not take for friends and protectors (awlia) their fathers and brothers if they love Infidelity above Islam. In fact there are many verses that tell the Muslims to kill the unbelievers and be harsh with them. A clear example that Islam is not based on the Golden Rule is the verse (48:29): “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.” This is the perfect definition of fascism.

There are many other verses that show the brotherhood in Islam is not universal. Non-believers have no rights and should not be treated in the same way that believers are to be treated. The entire Quran is a breach of the Golden Rule. The Quran tells Muslims to slay the unbelievers wherever they find them (2:191), don’t befriend them (3:28), fight them and show them harshness (9:123), smite their heads (47:4), etc.  Are these verses compatible with the Golden Rule?

Islam is the only doctrine that calls upon its believers to do evil to others for the simple fact that they are not believers.

According to Muslims it is not the Golden Rule that defines the good and bad, it is Muhammad who does it. They believe that what is good for Islam is the highest virtue and what is bad for Islam is the ultimate evil.  This is the definition of good and evil in Islam. This is the ethos of all cults. From Asahara’s “Aum  Shinrikyo” to Jim Jones’ “People’s Temple”; from Sun Myung Moon’s “Unification Chruch” to David Koresh’s “Davidian Branch”, the recurring theme is that the cult’s interests override human understanding of right and wrong. In order to advance the interest of the cult, which is regarded as the ultimate good, everything, including lying, and even murder and assassination are permissible. The end is deemed to be so lofty that it justifies the means. This is the same idea of fascism where glorification of the state and total subordination of the individual to it are considered to he the ultimate good. Anything that challenges this good must be eliminated even if it means genocide of a certain group.

None of the verses quoted above by Muslims have anything to do with the Golden Rule.

Verse 13:22 tells the believers to be patient and generous with their money. This is what all cults demand from their followers. The more sacrifice the cultists make the more they can be manipulated.

Verse 23:96 asks Muslims to repel evil, where the definition of evil for Muhammad was contradicting him.

Verse 41:34 is a Meccan verse where Muhammad and his followers were the underdogs and here he preached patience and said repel evil with good so your enemy becomes as friend. Could he have done anything else?  When he was weak he had to play the nice guy.  These orders changed when he came to power. In Medina he banished and massacred entire populations just because he suspected that they may not be friendly to him.

Verse 28:54 is a repetition of 23:96 and verse 42:40 says whoever forgives and amends, he shall have his reward from Allah.  However, Muhammad never forgave those who mocked him. As for Muhammad’s unforgiving nature it is enough to recall the fate of Oqba the man who mocked Muhammad in Mecca. When he was captured in the Battle of Badr, Muhammad ordered his decapitation. Oqba ventured to expostulate and demand why he should be treated more vigorously than other captives who were kept for ransom.  “Because of your enmity to God and to his Prophet,” replied Muhammad. “And my little girl,” cried Oqba, in the bitterness of his soul, “Who will take care of her?” – “Hellfire!” exclaimed the heartless conqueror; and on the instant his victim was hewn to the ground.  “Wretch that he was!” continued Muhammad, “and persecutor!  Unbeliever in God, in his Prophet, and in his Book!  I give thanks unto the Lord that has slain you, and comforted mine eyes thereby.”[1]

How do you reconcile the claim that Muhammad in his farewell sermon said, “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you,” with the fact that in his deathbed he said, “No two religions are allowed in Arabia” and ordered the forced conversion, expulsion or ethnic cleansing of the Jews and Christians and the massacre of Pagans?

The sura 9, which is the last words of Muhammad, is a manifesto of discrimination and human rights abuses. This sura alone is proof that Islam is against the Golden Rule

The first requisite to feel the pain and suffering of others is to accept that they have feelings that they are like us who also feel hurt the way we do. If we dehumanize and deny such feelings on others we don’t feel any remorse in abusing them. Muhammad claimed all those who disbelieve in Allah are the worst creatures. He even said that all non-believers will end up in hell where they will be tortured for eternity. How then Muslims can treat equally those whom they believe to be worse than beast deserving of eternal punishment?

There is nothing in the Quran and Hadith that would make us believe that Islam is compatible with the Golden Rule.

 

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This article has 244 comments

  1. […] the rest is the explanation; go and learn.”  One notable demagogic purveyor of hate, Ali Sina, has written, “There is nothing in the Quran and Hadith that would make us believe that Islam is compatible […]

  2. (Continued…)
    These are just a few of the many passages of the Quran where Muslims are ordered to convert or kill unbelievers. If God can make all humans believers, then why does he force Muslims to do his work of killing and converting unbelievers when he could have done so Himself? Also, this same God does the following :

    * Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth-> 6:25 6:110
    * Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran-> 17:45-76
    * It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that-> 17:97
    * God could guide, if he chose to, but did not-> 6:35
    * Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->14:4
    * Willfully misguiding some-> 16:93
    * God causes human to err-> 4:143 7:178
    * God deceiving human-> 4:142

    So God deliberately keeps unbelievers away from Islam and then punishes them for that- this is sadism. And if this is the case, then how can unbelievers ‘fail the test’ when their fate is already sealed by God?

    What a ridiculous analogy of students and teachers! Students are tested to know how much they have learnt and progressed, or many times tests are kept just for the reason that students may study (practice tests) for the big tests. (For example, giving Mock CAT tests before taking the actual CAT exam for MBA) Before the test, students know that there is going to be a test and try their best to prepare for it. Did God tell all humans before their birth that Islam is true, that their lives on earth will be a test, and they have to pass his test of faith by following his religion correctly? Students saying “Teacher should show us the answers” would completely end the meaning of the test, how would God showing Himself to humans end the meaning of Our ‘test’? On the contrary, it would be a very good thing, since it should prove to humanity that God exists and that he indeed is testing us, and this would enable humans to consciously follow Islam to pass the ‘test’ of God. A God who doesn’t even inform humans about ‘testing’ them and throws them in Hell forever for failing his tests is not a true God. Also, students are ‘tested’ for 2 things- to know how much knowledge they have gained, which is very essential for their progress, and often to make them study and improve their performance in the final big exam. For what reason would God ‘test’ mankind? God being Omniscient would already know everything about mankind. And then such a God who ‘tests’ people keeps nearly 80 % of the people unaware about his own true religion, keeps continents like North and South America unknown to the rest of the world for nearly 900 years after Islam’s birth!

    In this case, Zakir Naik has given a ridiculous analogy that asking “Why doesn’t God show Himself” is like students asking “Why doesn’t the teacher show us the answers in a test?” Firstly, the fact that life is a test is assume by Zakir Naik, which is completely unproven and most likely untrue. Secondly, here asking God to show himself is like asking the TEACHER to show herself, the teacher who takes the test is expected to show herself. We are not asking for answers of the questions to be shown. Zakir Naik is not a scholar but a showman, he has a great memory and can impress the audience temporarily with his words. He has been completely exposed here by Ali Sina. (At the risk of sounding boastful, it must be mentioned here that even this writer is good at remembering verses, events, sources, dates and can and often has impressed the audience!!!)

    This is a video of a debate between Zakir Naik’s guru Abdullah Thariq in a debate with Mahendra Pal Arya in full:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zIujH5R9m0

  3. (Continued…)
    Naturally this is a ridiculous answer and a ridiculous analogy. Why should God ‘test’ people without proof? Zakir Naik is of course assuming that Allah wrote the Quran. What is the proof of that- since it was dictated by Muhammad? A God like Allah who needs Angels like Gabriel to do his work, who lives only in a particular part of the Universe and who cannot even give good stationery to his chosen Messenger to record the Quran and makes his followers write it on palm trees, stones, camel bones in a language where the whole meaning can change with the slightest change in alphabet, and whose book Quran saw many versions within 20 years of the death of Muhammad is of course very unlikely to write the Quran. Actually Chapter 41 Verse 53 itself is a proof that Islam is false. “Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the Horizons), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?” But this God did not show any signs, did not re arrange stars in a manner that they read at night “Islam is true”, filled the Quran with errors, mistakes and contradictions, and did absolutely nothing to prove that Islam is from God either during Muhammad’s time or later. Far from showing his signs in the furthest of regions, God actually kept the Muslims (and also the rest of the world) completely unaware about two whole continents of the world- viz South America and North America until nearly 900 years of the birth of Islam! Christopher Columbus accidentally discovered America in 1492 and thought that he had reached India!

    Look at the other passage quoted by Zakir Naik – Chapter 10, Verse 99:
    “If it had been thy Lord’s will, he would have made all human beings as believers,- all who are on earth!” This is another point which will go against Islam. If God could have easily made all humans as believers then why is the message of Islam ‘convert or kill’ with unbelievers being allowed to remain as “Dhimmis” paying the Jizyah tax in the first instance? The whole Quran contains more than 70 passages urging Muslims to wage war on non-Muslims, convert or kill them and shun them in this life and the next. Apostates i.e. those Muslims who leave Islam are given death penalty. This is the legal provision in many Muslim countries even today, like Afghanistan a state supposedly rescued by liberals from the radical Taliban, which gives death penalty for leaving Islam. If there is no compulsion in religion and God can easily make all humans as believers then why should apostates be given death penalty?The Quran in 2:27, 2:39, 3:90-91, 4:89, 9:66, 9:74, 47:25-26 makes it clear that apostates are to be punished. Some passages of the Quran are quoted below:

    “8:60 And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah…

    8:12 I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
    Unbelievers

    2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them

    2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

    2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

    3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

    8:15-16, O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day – unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

    8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself

    8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers

    9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

    9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed

    9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

    8:39, And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.”

  4. http://www.islaminindia.org/uncategorized/why-doe
    This is a question that is often asked by atheists to believers- “Why doesn’t God simply show Himself to the people to dispel all doubts that He exists ?” Simply showing Himself to humanity will also help a lot of people, since the world runs on hope and optimism. Belief in God often gives people feeling “The Almighty is behind me. He will take care of me”. Even in sad and desperate situations, believers can be optimistic and hopeful and live a happier life. So, it is very important that God show Himself to people so that they at least feel reassured that there is God behind them to help them, if not to prove to mankind that God’s only true religion is Islam.

    Now many believers and people like Dr Zakir Naik have tried to answer this question. We simply quote Zakir Naik :

    “The questioner asked a question that he has a friend who believes that there is one supernatural power, but if Islam is right, then why doesn’t Allah come down and say that I am God, worship me, so that everyone would believe???

    There is a verse in the Quran in Yunus, Chapter 10, Verse 99:
    “If it had been thy Lord’s will, he would have made all human beings as believers,- all who are on earth!….”
    It is very easy for him to do that!!! But this is a test we are undergoing… Allah says in Al-Mulk, Chapter 67, Verse 2:
    “He Who created Death and Life, that He may test which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;- “
    So this life is the test for the hereafter… The human beings are the best of the creations of Allah SWT, he gave us freewill to either go with the orders of Allah SWT or against the orders of Allah SWT… Those who obey Allah SWT and submit their will to Allah SWT are called as Muslims… and those who go against him and disobey him are called as Kafirs(disbelievers)…

    For example, if in an examination test, where the students are giving an examination, so one of the students says: “Why is the teacher testing us? Why doesn’t she come and show us all the answers and everyone will write the right answer?”!!! If the teacher comes and dictates the answer, then where is the question of the test??? So the teacher before the test taught you many things… Told you, and now it is you who have to remember back then and ask questions at that time… That is why Allah SWT has revealed the Quran and He has given you signs… Allah SWT says in the Quran in Fussilat, Chapter 41, Verse 53:
    “Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the Horizons), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?”… So Allah SWT said that He will show you the truth in the soul of every human being… Now after they come to know the truth, whether they believe or not is their problem… So the teacher before the examination, she teaches that 2+2=4… In the Examination whether you write 3, 5 or 4 it is your problem… So Allah SWT has directly by himself showed you his signs in the Horizons though the sun, through the stars, through his creations and He himself will make it evident, and it is a promise that every human being will believe in one God, BUT after that, do they agree with the commandments or not that is secondary…

    So this is a test we are undergoing, those who submit their will to Allah SWT they are called as Muslims, and they will be rewarded in the next life… and those who disobey they will be punished…”
    (Cotninued…)

  5. […] murder of small children, such as those of the Fogel family. But in Islam, as Ali Sina explains here, there is no Golden […]

  6. If there is only theory (belief) and virtually no practical instrument to test that theory ,how? one will prove the theory is right ,think about it.!!!

  7. In theory practice and theory are same but in practice they are not. You can't prove anything.

  8. Nothing is more dangerous than one who does not know and does not want to know.

  9. Let me clarify.The master claims he is absolute and he proves it .Those who challenge him,claiming to be,lacking in Islamic and MOHAMMEDAN'S knowledge, contest /invite him and after REALIZING his absolute understanding ,vacate the debate halfway. My above post was in repugnant ,to that particular claim of Mr.Sina's opponent. Here there is , practical lesson for those ,who without having basic knowledge about Islam ,try to engage Mr Sina,should think twice before engaging him, ha,ha,ha……

  10. See how the Master behaves . . . . !

    Hence why your disciples act like you . . . look at Sakat!

    I never claim i am his disciple , if you condensed on that term ,"disciples" ,again you must define the term "Disciple" to our understanding .Already you have faltered in defining the term "Knowledge",at least try here to resolve your "fare knowledge". See how hard truth affects whole system of your being,tame your ego ,you will be a very good human being independent of that MAD MOHAMMED , i know you are that "silence" and you want to silence us ,real god resides in silence ,but that is not you yet.

  11. "I am exposing a false doctrine"

    No you are NOT. As I have repeatedly shown . . . your "exposition" are NOTHING but lies.

    - – -

    "Also I know very well Islam. I know Islam at least better than all the Muslims and I dare to say better than most scholars of Islam. "

    So where did this knowledge go – when writing your book?

    Why were you reduced to plagiarizing from Wikipedia?
    http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

    How do you account for so many basic errors?

    - – -

    "I have a standing challenge for any Muslim scholar to debate with me and prove me wrong. "

    I am here . . . also note this . . .

    Anyone able to give Sina a challenge is strangely ignored.
    http://underislamicsun.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/a

    - – -

    "Islam is one such a doctrine. It is based on hate. "

    Nope – YOU are based on hate . . . hence your book. And why it is filled with many lies.

    - – -

    See how the Master behaves . . . . !

    Hence why your disciples act like you . . . look at Sakat!

  12. Mr Sina, once again you have proved that,you were always right and you are right and you will be.Other wise these people wouldn't have given up contesting you,hats up!!!!

  13. Ms Dr Ali Sina is right! :)

  14. Call yourself what you will, but you are building a following and waging a words war against people who do not deserve your hatred. There are plenty of Muslims who are pure of heart, regardless of what paper says. Their ways may be different from yours, but I can assure you — You are preaching in the wrong way about the wrong person at the wrong time.
    This will be my final response, but before I go — I am charging you with the responsibility to have a heart-to-heart with your Deity. Turn to whomever you pray to and ask, "What is right?" Do not ask it in a fleeting moment. Ask it with length, focus, clarity and by setting your own opinion aside from it. If you find that this is truly right of you, continue it. Do as you wish. I will no longer criticize your actions. However, I have a strong feeling that if you truly connect with God and ask, "what is right?"… you will find that this, what you are doing here, is not right.
    I bid thee fare well, and I hope thou canst allow thy God show thee truth.

  15. \”I agree, and I think that is exactly what you are doing with this website.\”

    I have not claimed to be a prophet or guru and no one is following me.

    \”You are raising the masses against a people that you seem to know nothing about.\”

    I am nor raising anyone against anyone. I am exposing a false doctrine, and clarifying the reason why Muslims behave in such a barbaric way. It is because of their religion. Also I know very well Islam. I know Islam at least better than all the Muslims and I dare to say better than most scholars of Islam. I understand Islam and Muhammad when most so called scholars of Islam just know its details without understanding it. I have a standing challenge for any Muslim scholar to debate with me and prove me wrong.

    \”True, there are many bad people in Islaam.\”

    I am not concerned about bad people in Islam. I talk about Muhammad and the Quran.

    \”There is darkness in every religion, but EVERY religion\’s core values are peace, love for one another and happiness.\”

    This may be true for every religion but not for Islam. Islam\’s core is evil and violence as its founder was a terrorist and a criminal.

    \”It is not the religion that aims to create darkness, it is the blind followers misinterpreting metaphors.\”

    This can be true in the case of every religion with the exception of Islam. Islam is very evil because its holy book teaches evil. I can see you have not read the Quran. I suggest you read it on your own without any mullah\’s help. I did that and that was when I saw this book is sheer evil. Don\’t read it with the help of another Muslim because they will do their best to fool you and twist its meaning. Read the dammed book on your own. It says it is an easy book to understand right from the beginning.

    \”Love thy neighbor,

    Yes but it does not mean one should also love evil. We have to hate evil things such as racism. dictatorship, slavery, abuse, violence, etc. Islam represents all these things and any good person must hate it. Loving our neighbor does not mean we must also love his vices and his evil deeds.

    Do you love Nazism, KKK, fascism or communism. These doctrines are evil, deceptive and wrong. Islam is one such a doctrine. It is based on hate. Read your damn book before pontificating please.

  16. 'hate' here is used in a comparative manner. He is saying that if any body comes to him, he should be prepared to give up his family and even his life. This is made clear by use of the phrase "and his own life also" for how can you hate your own life? This is further understood from the context , 14:25 : Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said. Off course here he didn't seem to like fan following only, he wished to have for company only the truest who could give up everything. This goes perfectly well with the next 2 examples Luke 14:28-33.

  17. An imposter Kavya !!! but really a burqa ed Moslemah.

  18. "Once they accept you as a prophet, guru or their spiritual guide, then you can do whatever you want and get away with it."
    I agree, and I think that is exactly what you are doing with this website. You are raising the masses against a people that you seem to know nothing about. True, there are many bad people in Islaam. However, there are just as many (if not more) ignorant and blind Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Wiccans, CHRISTIANS and any follower of any religion. Their is darkness in every religion, but EVERY religion's core values are peace, love for one another and happiness. It is not the religion that aims to create darkness, it is the blind followers misinterpreting metaphors. In order for you to call yourself a man of God, you must recognize the golden rule yourself! But by writing this garbage, you lower yourself to be everything you protest. "Love thy neighbor," be he near or far, nice or mean, placid or eccentric, Christian or Otherwise. Disgracing these people is not accordance with the Golden Rule, and as far as I can tell — not in accordance with God.

  19. Ali sina, in the near future, after islam is eliminated, a nobel peace prize is waiting for you..

  20. Why Relief with Religious Tag. Let the Petro Dollars be given to Charitable Institutions among all Religions. Many Religious Institutions will play mischief in the name of Relief which ultimately leads to clashes in society which are Long-lasting compared to Natural Calamities.

  21. Why not Petro-dollars be spent on Poor instead of wasting on spreading Religious Tentacles. Once people realize it is Most Peaceful Religion they will automatically embrace it. Then, no need for making it fastest growing by 'Disastorously Fast Breeding'.

  22. I am looking and all of those Golden Rule points from Islam are taken directly or paraphrased so closely from Torah and the New Testament. I'm glad his Jewish wives taught him something.

  23. huh? One day you might learn to read . . . but I doubt it. If all that schooling didn't work – what chance have you got.

    I was merely correcting someone . . .

    - – -

    "why do you want to add into your religions the thinks that aren't in quran and hadiths? "

    What would you know about the Quran? Except nothing.

    - – -

    It is always the same, with you . . . few lines of nonsensical comments.

  24. you are invoking sufis here which is not islamic according to alqaeda.
    why do you want to add into your religions the thinks that aren't in quran and hadiths?
    like rumi added all good things to make islam look better?

  25. "If there is no punishment (no Hell), then killing people/fasting/religious duties are no longer important… –> you end-up in static-sterile-afterlife any ways…"

    The song by Ahmad Dhani – doesn't refute existence of Hell or Heaven – in the same way Imagine by Lennon does . . . but explores the motivation behind worshiping God. . . . along Sufi lines and concepts.

    Hence – your understanding isn't quite there.

  26. Quote>> Muslims like him are not afraid of death, they are afraid of HELL

    You ring a bell, this is why in my country there is a song titled ("Jika surga dan neraka tak pernah ada..") if translated into English: "what if heaven and hell doesn't exist.." and most moslems (in blogs) thinks that this song is un-Islamic, because god say Hell exist…

    If there is no punishment (no Hell), then killing people/fasting/religious duties are no longer important… –> you end-up in static-sterile-afterlife any ways…

  27. [...] [11] Sobre este tema, el excepcional artículo de opinión “The Golden Rule and Islam” del políticamente incorrecto Ali Sina, director de Faith Freddom (http://www.faithfreedom.org/) en el que sostiene que ““la razón de que yo esté contra el islam es que no es una religión, sino una ideología política de imperialismo y dominación disfrazada de religión”. Link: http://alisina.org/the-golden-rule-and-islam/ [...]

  28. okay Mr sayed Umar Rastogy let’s see your assumptions and questions I laughed almost when you told that you reject The hadiths I had provided to you to counter that argument you have provided these statements :( ( Then let me question you ………… unreliable Ibn Ishaq is let me show some of your points and then some of mine ))————————– Blatantly and straight forwardly I defy your claim of judgment. I see your judgments rely on internet based information rather than using your own self wit, judgment and understanding the true facts according to your self findings. Lets have a look at the reason of authenticity : Muhammad: – died 632 AD : Ibn Ishaq:- Born 704, died 770 AD : Ibn Hisham :- Died 833 AD : Al-Dhahabi :- Born 1274, died 1348 ADIf I can get you right the summary of your statement was that 1 There are fatal contradictions in Hadith 2 This contradiction has caused muslims to leave Islam and Hadith both. 3According to youclaim the nearest source is the most authentic. okay ??? then I have to say sorry brother as there were even more ancient sources than sirate-ibn-ishaq and even they Make my prophet more enigmatic than even Ibne-Hisham .I am going to state their names. Aban b. `Uthman al-Bajkali (640-718 C.E.),`Urwa b. al-Zubayr b. al-Awwam (643-712 C.E.) the cousin of the Prophet and referred to the founder of Islamic history. There is doubt that he authored anything, but there are many traditiions that have been handed down in his name.and Musannaf of Ibn Jurayj (d. 150 AH)Musannaf of Ma`mar bin Rashid (d. 153 AH)these are the sources of earliest Islamic knowledge Sirat Ibn ishaq couldhave been a good source but do you know why I reject it ? The original text of the Sīrat Rasūl Allāh by Ibn Ishaq (Medina 85 A.H.; Bagdad 151 ) did not survive. Yet it was one of the earliest substantial biographies of Muhammad. Fortunately, as noted above, much of the original text was copied over into a work of his own by Ibn Hisham (Basra; Fustat c. 218 A.H.)source:Dates and places, and discussions, re Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham in Guillaume (xiii, xli).So the Ibn ishaq we see is very very much questionable. You nust be thinking then who wrote the IShaq we see and then let’s think what was the source for Ishaq ? were they these ? no they were another book whichwas written by Shurabil b. sa`d (740 C.E.), who was a latter man at this stage and see Shurabil b. sa`d (740 C.E.), who wrote a maghazi, but this book was considered unreliable and thus seldom used by later historians. I ask why ?? I defy you also by geting forward and telling that your assumption were totally wrong!as there are even earlier resources which tells me MY prophet wasa avery good man . May be this will solve some of your question . And to your other question/claim The unreliability of the Ibn Ishaq can be found here in detail “The Life of Muhammad” by Ibn Ishaq has been quoted by many critics of Islam. They get excited when Ibn Ishaq paints a bad picture of Prophet Muhammad and use it in their writings to attack Islam.Although Ibn Ishaqwas the earliest of the traditionists to write a biography of the events that pertained to the time of Muhammad (p) there are several severe problems with his writings. As Bassam Zawadi says” just because something is early doesn't mean it is true”. He has a good point.Not everyone back then was reliable and honest.Ibn Ishaq was known to be careless in him collecting stories about the Prophet, etc. Several respected Muslim theologians rightly reject his (Ibn Ishaq's) authority for several reasons: (A) That he was a Shi'i favouring Ali over all the other contenders to the Khilfa(B) That he held the view that Man has free will, which is kind of contrary to the Quranic perception. (C)That his Isnads (chains of transmissions) were defective, ie not 'iron' tight by naming all the reporters, which is important because this determines whether the transmitter of the story is trustworthy or not. Ibn Ishaq was not an eye witness to any of the events of Prophet Muhammad's life.Ibn Ishaq was writing about 150 years after the Prophet's death so this is very important. In Islamic sciences in order for a report of the Prophet (peace be on him) to be true is if the isnad is solid or not.(D) He used reports of traditions gathered from Jewish sources. Jews made up a lot of false stories/legends of Prophet Muhammad (just like the early Christians living outside of Palestine made up a lot of myths and legends of Jesus and put them in the Gospels). Making up stories and legends about the Prophet are unnacceptable in the eyes of many Islamic scholars. (E) Ibn Ishaq was (for lack of better term) a “suck up” to the Jews of Arabia. He said several complimentary reports of the Jews of Arabia, despite the fact that the Jews of Arabia were constatnly fighting with the Arabs and were charging interest when loaning money. The Jews of Madinah were constatly plotting againist the Prophet Muhammad. They were always trying to undermine his authority. In fact they sided with the Makkans in order to assinate the Prophet. (F) Most important of all, his report about Laylat al Qadr (the first revelation), contradicts all the hadith versions. The hadith collectors Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, etc were more careful in collecting their hadith (their chains of transmission). (G) There are several stories in Ibn Ishaq which are never found in the hadith. The reason why is because several hadith collectors such as Bukhari– did not trust Ibn Ishaq. Ibn Ishaq as an author was in fact subjected to devastating attacks by scholars, contemporary or later, on two particular accounts. One was his uncritical inclusion in his Sira of so much spurious or forged poetry [7] ;the other his unquestioning acceptance of just such a story as that of the slaughter of Banu QurayazaSo In fact Ibn Ishaq is the most unreliable source not the reliable and not even the earliest.

  29. About the slaves right let me give you some verses, what it says.
    Surah Al Rum
    Quran 30:28
    He does propound to you a similitude from your own (experience): do ye have partners among those whom your right hands possess, to share as equals in the wealth We have bestowed on you? Do ye fear them as ye fear each other? Thus do we explain the Signs in detail to a people that understand.
    Lets see its tafsir
    Abu Mijlaz said,
    "You do not fear that your servant will have a share in your wealth, because he has no such right; similarly, Allah has no partner.''
    The point is, that since any one of you would abhor such a thing, how can you attribute rivals to Allah from among His creation!
    or None of you would like to have his servant as a partner in his wealth, each of them having an equal share.'
    So Slaves were given equal right huh??? You are twisting false propagation of your islam that you defend for, even if Islam is true for ex , you Allah will set you to jahannum to derogate his verses in this farce.
    Surah An Nahl
    Quran 16:71
    And Allah honored some of you over others with wealth and properties. Then, those who are so honored will by no means hand over their wealth and properties to those (captives of war= slaves) whom their right hands possess, so that they may be equal with them in that. Do they then deny the favor of Allah!?
    Lets see its tafsir:
    Al-Awfi reported that Ibn Abbas mentioned this Ayah, saying,
    "Allah is saying – `If they did not want their servant to have a share with them in their wealth and wives, how can My servant have a share with Me in My power!'
    So it does completely says about Human slaves, war booty, their rights of share and class derivation between humans, as to Allah, without no particular reason he had made you master and to serve he made servant among the humans he created, So as as a servant of Allah, You submitters as you cannot have the same as like Allah , how come these slaves be same to your equal share and wealth and right, So devide and rule seems Allah better than the British as like Brittish empire. What a farce you call this a humane religion, religion of peace, just a complete derogatory inhumaniustic approach to mankind. You, Islam and Quran is completely a farce that these things who supports are the most dishonor to our mankind. It’s time for muslims to realize the facts what they follow this piece of sheer lies.

  30. Mr. Hasan don’t make farce with your knowledge you deem to be under knowledgeable person or shrewdly trying to hide behind your twisted falsified claim, look for your self I asked about sex slave that slaves that are women and child female. And you posed with slaves lets look
    (((1st point Islam Advocated Sex slaves It’s not true at allindeed Islam condemns he who sells any freeman as slave.
    As prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) stated
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: -1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. -2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, -3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' "(One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price) See this is there any question on slavery of a free man next to your mind ? ))) Hilarious !!! really so blind folded.

    Hilarious logic, ya you seem to lose your own justification too hun?
    ((And You may ask why did she didn’t go and married prophet ? so then here is your answer.

    "It is related that she bore the mark of a bruise upon her eye; when the Prophet asked her tenderly the cause, she told him that, being yet Kenāna's bride, she saw in a dream as if the moon had fallen from the heavens into her lap; and that when she told it to Kenāna, he struck her violently, saying: 'What is this thy dream but that thou covetest the new king of the Ḥijāz, the Prophet, for thy husband!' The mark of the blow was the same which Moḥammad saw." cf. Muir (1912) pp. 378-379

    So nither her marriage was a rape nor she was compelled .And if you tell these proofs as hoaxes then I must question why are you raising questions on these matters ?))

    === Quoted ((Safiyyah is the daughter of the leader of a Jewish tribe and the wife of the treasurer of that tribe. She witnesses her father and uncle being killed in battle. Then she has the misfortune seeing her husband tortured to death in the manner described above by the MUSLIM biographers. After all that, we are asked to believe that she immediately fell in love with the man responsible for all these atrocities? Come on man! Give your audience some credit. How long did Mohammed allow Safiyya to mourn for her father, uncle and husband? Who can think of marriage immediately after a massacre like that?

    The truth is that Safiyyah was considered ?Spoils of War? for Mohammed. He chose the fairest and the finest because ?a fifth of the spoils belong to Allah and his prophet?.)) ======I don’t have time to comply to your stupid replies at least you might have lost your brain but I am not. Safiyah was taken as Shahi Bukhari inscribed
    ====(1) Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a losers. (Book #62, Hadith #27)
    Really you blind folded Islamic are so escapist that you thought if you snob these things to me you can easily pass away? No way..

  31. Ok lets take Shahi Bukhari and try to understand the chain of quotes here about sex slave and having safiyah to have sex on the same night.
    “We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, 'O Allah's Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her." Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, 'Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.' He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle ." (Book #8, Hadith #367)

    Frst Safiya was given as booty sex slave to whom right hand posses to Dihya on the day time after the war at fazar, later charmed by her beauty Muhammod took her, dressed her for marriage sent her to have sex that night, later day on the way she was taken as her wife, after when her menses were over.
    Same source from the book killed all the males and Kinnana been tortured to death brutally for the treasure loot as Muhammod was a barbarous Looter. And only female and children were taken as captives so your claims previously was totally falsified that Muhammad was kind and so so…
    (3) Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) offered the Fajr prayer when it was still dark, then he rode and said, 'Allah Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. When we approach near to a nation, the most unfortunate is the morning of those who have been warned." The people came out into the streets saying, "Muhammad and his army." Allah's Apostle vanquished them by force and their warriors were killed; the children and women were taken as captives. Safiya was taken by Dihya Al-Kalbi and later she belonged to Allah's Apostle go who married her and her Mahr was her manumission. (Book #14, Hadith #68)
    And another source” he set out in her company till he reached Sadd-ar-Rawha' where her menses were over and he married her”
    (16) Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet came to Khaibar and when Allah made him victorious and he conquered the town by breaking the enemy's defense, the beauty of Safiya bint Huyai bin Akhtab was mentioned to him and her husband had been killed while she was a bride. Allah's Apostle selected her for himself and he set out in her company till he reached Sadd-ar-Rawha' where her menses were over and he married her. Then Hais (a kind of meal) was prepared and served on a small leather sheet (used for serving meals). Allah's Apostle then said to me, "Inform those who are around you (about the wedding banquet)." So that was the marriage banquet given by Allah's Apostle for (his marriage with) Safiya. After that we proceeded to Medina and I saw that Allah's Apostle was covering her with a cloak while she was behind him. Then he would sit beside his camel and let Safiya put her feet on his knees to ride (the camel). (Book #34, Hadith #437)

  32. So please next time no argument over placing copy paste net sources unless until you can say something by yourself on your own wit and knowledge and justification using your common sense. Biased people like I think you can’t, because you fear to admit what you have fought for long time unless you are ignorant to understand the facts.

    : Now let’s talk about illicit Sex and sex slaves, Here my points are verses
    Q. 23: 1-7)
    1-The believers must (eventually) win through,-
    2- Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
    3-Who avoid vain talk;
    4- Who are active in deeds of charity;
    5- Who abstain from sex,
    6- Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
    7- But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors;-
    Clearly without doubt shows that sex with slaves is permitted to whome right hand posses, still practiced in Saudi Arab, many of the female main servant from philipine, indonesia, malay india, pakistan , bangladesh stopped sending further female worker in the middle east due to permission of sex with slaves .
    Better posts are in Alinsina’s blog http://alisina.org/safiyah-the-jewish-wife-of-muh
    As I had already turned down the rejected allegations against the hadis sources of Ishaq and tabari therefore, it is true by no doubt. If you want to refute than start with 1. why Islamic scholars were divided in understanding and collecting of the resources taken? , 2. Time span and advancements from the resources and later writers authenticity to rejecting the quotes.

    As I said earlier that I deny what modern so called scholars have to say about hadis and who are they to do so?? On what reliable basis? Contradiction and confusion cannot be the basis. I have seen you are an expert in twisting the real truth behind a great lie , or u have sheer ignorance about resources just a copy paster PhD. You being shamelessly did this with purpose,
    ///Marriage of Safiyah (widow of Kinanah) . -The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free(Look at this sect), and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. "I choose God and His Messenger," she said; and they were married at the first halt on the homeward march. -The marriage to Safiyyah(R) has a political significance as well, as it helps to reduce hostilities and cement alliances. – This significant act of marrying Safiyyah(R) was indeed a great honor for her, for this not only preserved her dignity, it also prevented her from becoming a slave (Sahih bukhari Volume 3, Book 33, Number 251: Narrated Ali bin Al-Husain)///
    You better see the hadis what’s written in there
    ///Safiya, the wife of the Prophet told me that she went to Allah's Apostle to visit him in the mosque while he was in Itikaf in the last ten days of Ramadan. She had a talk with him for a —-………………"Satan reaches everywhere in the human body as blood reaches in it, (everywhere in one's body). I was afraid lest Satan might insert an evil thought in your minds."//
    you either thought me as an ignorant retard which seems you are the one who shamelessly used the hadis quotes out of know context. That’s why I asked do you really come from Muslim family or a convert; it seems you lack a severe knowledge in understanding the Quranic Truth. Not only that, you misused the quotes on misjudgments or shrewdly did it just to take a chance, to establish your false truth .
    The reference you used here is falsified that are actually from Muhammad Husayn Haykal, The Life of Muhammad, 1933;I don’t find any authentic resources from where did he got ((The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free(Look at this sect), and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. "I choose God and His Messenger,"))) seems again another falsified evidence to cover up the allegation against Muhammod , whenever there was an allegation these so called historians ,scholars found out these type of stories to cover up. But the question is for how long??? for how long you people will try to cover-up unless the Quran and hadis become completely nude and there will be nothing to cover up. Safiyas marriage was a rape or what is completely shown in hisham and Tabari what was done to her one days stayed husband, Shame on such religion and shame on those who deny it blindly.

  33. : After that Ibn Hisham rejected finding the age old contradiction and confusion taking account the Ishaqs writing, taking Quran as the only reliable and absolute source. Obvious it is why he discarded many quotes that defamed Muhammad very well. Still many of its quotes go against Quranic teachings, which now a day’s blind folded bigotry biased theist trying to cover up rejecting one by one. I doubt if there any quotes one day that may support Islam as a religion. Let me ask you one question who will know you best, after your death, your son or grandson or your generations after 200 year and now??? Sorry we are not that fool enough to clearly identify the reason behind rejecting the quotes by those scholars. If by within 150 years none asked the authenticity of hadis sources why should we reject the contradictions that have the best possibility to identify Islam as a religion?? Therefore by the time of Hisham he just rejected quotes what he thought to be right according to Quran. But the problem is biographies, always tell the truth, and Quran is made by Muhammad, that’s why there were so many contradiction, confusions, rejection, sahi, sunan, subgroups, different school of thoughts of Shariah law, etc, etc, etc till present and t won’t stop asking people what is wrong in it, won’t stop people to understand Islam rather than a religion but a pagan cult.

    : Al-Dhahabi :- What’s his authentic resources? As there is none except ishaq?And this person came after 660 year to claim what is authentic and not? Its all the same reason. Who is he, after 660 year claim to reject what is authentic c or not? The allegation and process is all the same, right now what you are trying to do mere though a copy paster rather than literally understanding and learning from the readings and utilize your wit and common sense. Don’t you see they are doing it in every advance and step of time? Just to cover up that may defame Quran and Muhammad. So why should I believe in their writings rather than believing the ishaq’s writings as the absoluteness of Quran and Hadis always been confronted and people asking things that defame Islam by hadis. But still you can’t, no1 ever can’t. I blatantly deny the claim of this piece of sheets rejecting Hadis resources as that are most reliable sources of the Muhammad’s life. Still if you don’t understand the fact and the reason clearly, it is understood that you will never or ever used your brain and wit for the sake of truth or you are afraid to admit the truth. Let aside cook and spencer they are not even a muslim. And also according to your information, ((Spencer, Robert: The Truth about Muhammad, Regnery Publishers, 2006 pg. 25) Despite his negative opinion regarding Ibn IssHaaq, out of the 400 footnotes of Robert Spencer's book, 120 footnote refer to fabricated stories from Ibn Ishaq's book. ))—————- about 2/3 of the footnotes are not fabricated. So? Only 1/3 is fabricated though I don’t account his accountability. T he problem with the logic and researchers is there method can be proved tomorrow and it changes but the truth cannot be changed.

    : Now lets see about sex slaves as booty, I don’t know what are you really trying to prove? Booty sex slaves aren’t myth??? They are proven truth so what is the point of quoting quran verses as it’s totally derogatory and full of contradictions with confusions derived.

    al-Ṭabarī( 838-923) :- contemporary to hisham accountability as hisham died 833 and hisham’s biography was completed. Tabari was a sunni muslim too, and his works are most renowned and 3rd most just after hisham finished his work. It is to be noted that even hisham’s work didn’t made that much account among the interviewers that were accounted in tabari’s hadis resources. Though he confessed as he was fearful to Allah whether he was doing right or wrong as he also had faced the same confusion and contradiction resembling with teachings of Quran itself. But history is history he followed what people said about and noted in his account. We see the same contradiction and confusion to arise. Historian and biographers allegedly rejected his sources that may defame Islam and it’s teachings again.

  34. Mr. Hassan I am sorry for the late reply as I was busy with my personal matters. Now let me get you one by one.
    First of all I haven’t ever either went away from claiming the authenticity of Quran and Hadis and its contradictions. That was my first point and I have set my logic and goals according to. But you seem, not to be able to understand the logic I pointed out. We are just mere people debating on what is right and wrong according to one’s own general common sense and wit. Most of the bigotry, blindfolded, biased islamist are like you, they pass away the main point beating the bush here and there. You are not exceptional. Why do I think so? Let us point out the things that we both want to take Islam as a religion, you say the right one I say the wrong one, out of common general discussion but you failed to comply again and again twisting the very truth.
    :( ( Then let me question you ………… unreliable Ibn Ishaq is let me show some of your points and then some of mine ))————————– Blatantly and straight forwardly I defy your claim of judgment. I see your judgments rely on internet based information rather than using your own self wit, judgment and understanding the true facts according to your self findings.
    Lets have a look at the reason of authenticity

    : Muhammad: – died 632 AD
    : Ibn Ishaq:- Born 704, died 770 AD
    : Ibn Hisham :- Died 833 AD
    : Al-Dhahabi :- Born 1274, died 1348 AD
    As I claimed there is a severe contradiction and confusion in implication of Shariah law understanding Quran and hadis. After the death of Muhammad within 200 years, Islamic radicals divided in 50 subgroups in understanding the Quranic verse and hadis and each assassinated each other claiming there’s one is true. Go through the history and culture of pre, post Islamic history and culture by different writers. Due to the contradiction with hadis and Quranic verse there is shahi and Sunan, authentic and unauthentic. Actually we are none to claim which one is unauthentic but We claim the nearest source is the most authentic. Many of the writers due to fatal contradiction they rejected quotes of different biography and hadis sources as it goes straightly against Quran. Either Quotes or hadis are true or Quran is true , they took Quran as the only truth rejecting all other hadis sources but the fact is the rejected are the real truth as it existed for 200 years from muhammad’s time to ishaqan only that is because if either Quran is untrue and self made by muhammad. Biography doesn’t lie, but Muhammd can, as it is self made the Quran.

    By the expansion of time and advancement of humanity Islamic scholars came to understand that many hadis reference completely rejects the teachings of Quran and against humanity, this is an age old contradiction and confusion. We are not here to judge, we are here to understand why those hadis sources were rejected and what could be the best reason except if Quran is a self made book by Muhammad himself. As time goes by even now a days humanist pointing finger on the authenticity of Quran as a religion and surely hadis is the best reference to nullify Quran claiming to be a religion.
    So the point is:
    1. The reason of rejecting hadis sources as there was serious contradiction among hadis quotes abd the teachings of Quran and Muslim scholars understood it very well after the death of Muhammad still it took about 200 years to realize the fact and the more time goes the more they are realizing, that’s why being apostates having the death sentence Muslims are dared to leave Islam and denying as religion
    2. The contradiction and confusion is an age old debate and still now a days islamic thinkers are trying to cover up the lacking of inhuman acts that is both hadis and Quran admits and trying to loosen up softening the tone of Quran and hadis meanings. But the thing is you cannot hide the truth.

    : Ibn Ishaq as the earliest biographer of Muhammed, wrote his biography within 138 years after the death of Muhammad. He was born after 72 years of Muhammad’s death and if we count his accountability from mid age it might be after 30 years, he started writing taking accounts of peoples that are just 2nd generation after the Muhammad’s death. He collected all the resources abruptly that he found by his investigation from people to people that are may even first generation those who seen Muhammad by their life span.

  35. Allah has sealed the muslim hearts from knowing and accepting the truth
    Allah has sealed the muslim brains, they are forbidden to think and question
    Allah has sealed the muslim ears from hearing the truth-out of frequency
    Allah has sealed the muslim noses from smelling the stink of the sh*thole they are in
    Allah has sealed the muslim eyes to differentiate the obvious absurdity(Islam)
    Allah has sealed the muslim mouths from uttering the truth
    And finally Allah has sealed the muslim anuses from purging the waste. It stays inside.
    Allah did provide multiple opportunities for the muslims to come into light, provided hints and directions in the form of beacons like Ali Sina always willing to guide them onto the right path, but alas, the muslim is cursed with these multiple seals before getting into the light.

  36. Mr. Sina –

    Isn't it shameful – that one has to explain the golden rule to fellow human beings? I am surprised that the Muslims cannot understand such a basic rule which governs most of a person's life.

  37. Jainism has given to the world two unique philosophies – Syadavad and Anekantavad.

    From your viewpoint, you may be correct.
    From my viewpoint, I may be correct.

    This is how differences are sorted out.

  38. Mr. Sina – I have great respect for you.

    Take away all religions. There is only one truly organised atheistic religion – Jainism. Bring in science. Compare it with Jainism.

    You will find everything agrees with Jainism.

    Jains do not believe in a Creator God.

    Jains do not say you have to accept Jainism to be liberated or get Moksha. Jainism is only saying that Jainism is a fast track approach to get liberated from the cycle of birth and death – and get Moksha.

    Anyone of any religious affilitation/belief can get Moksha – that is what Jainism affirms. Only thing is that one has to live by the golden rule and do no harm to others. As you sow, so shall you reap.

    Jainism affirms that there are good human beings in all societies. Jainism affirms that we have to respect that goodness in all humans.

    Jainism is anti consumerism. Jainism is eco friendly.

    I am not here to sing the song of the greatness of Jainism. I just want to convey to others about a way of life – which has been practiced by many Indians – and which many people in the world do not know – THAT THERE IS ANOTHER VIEWPOINT OUT THERE – WHICH MAY BE AGREEABLE AND WHICH MAY BE FURTHER EXPLORED. THIS VIEWPOINT IS
    JAINISM.

    If one is total truthful and total non violent – then understand that he is following the principles of Jainism. There is no need of any formal acceptance of the religion.
    Mahatma Gandhi's non violence has been influenced and inspired by Jainism. There was a person at the time of Mahatma Gandhi – Shri Raichandbhai aka Shrimad Rajchandra. This person has influenced Mahatma Gandhi a lot – and Gandhi considered him as one of his spiritual gurus. This Shrimad Rajchandra died at a very young age of 34. He had attained what is called Satavdhani or the feat of memorizing 100 things – which he is able to recollect and repeat in whatever order or form or language that has been told.

    Like, for example, if there is a Satavdhani demonstration – and among the audience there are many people. One guest may recite a poem in French, then another may tell about some complex mathematical formulas. A third person, will sing a song in Latin. A fourth person, may read a paragraph from Mein Kampf. A fourth person may read a paragraph from your book Understanding Muhammad. A fifth person may quote Shakespeare. A sixth person in Swahili language, etc. Upto 100 items/object will be remembered by him and reproduced by him in any order – ascending, descending, backward, forward, etc.

    Shrimad Rajchandra led a very highly spiritual life and died at a very young age.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrimad_Rajchandra

    Many great people – people with exceptional talents, skills, Godly people, etc have died in their early thirties.

    Jesus, Vivekananda, S Ramanujam, etc.

    moksha – short word – whose meaning is freedom from (false) attachment. Moh mean attachment and kshay means the destruction.

    To develop a detachment towards worldy things and just be a witness to the happenings without getting emotionally wet/attached and taking care never to harm others and never to abandon truthfulness. That is what the Jains strive for.

    Jainism is synonymous with kindness to all, including animals. You will find Jains at the forefront in caring for and rescuing these dumb creatures.

  39. yes, mr rajeev – the moderates are on sleep – they are conserving their energy. They are letting the fanatics run the show. The moderates are ready for backing up whenever they are required. Till then they watch the whole show sympathising with the fanatics.

    The moderate Muslims are a bigger threat – you have rightly said.

  40. yes, mr. naruq a very nice suggestion indeed.

  41. "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." — Lk 14:26

    Mr.Sina, why do you believe Jesus Christ was good?

  42. "Koran doesn't have contradictions it has takhsess(Specification) If any one wants to use It he can do It by calling it a contradiction. "

    huh? THis shows you do not know what you are talking about… I think what you meant to say was Naskh – not Takhsis.

    - – -

  43. "Koran doesn't have contradictions it has takhsess(Specification) If any one wants to use It he can do It by calling it a contradiction. "

    huh? THis shows you do not know what you are talking about… I think what you meant to say was Naskh – not Takhsis.

    - – -

    "just give me a good reason if koran is one and unchanged why its implications were so deviated from each others and why the understanding of it is different to different immam "

    This is a long discussion – however it is well explained with the context of Usul Fiqh and even in its history.

    A singular text can have many differing explanations.

  44. "Our friend Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch, the indefatigable defender of the Western civilization"

    hmmm – who is a Fundamentalist Christian. His ravishing hate extends to American Right wing. He is a regular guest at Pentagon and other American military institutions. He is known for his strong anti-Islam stance.

    Ali Sina – has it appears aligned himself with him. Yet he does not profess to have nay religion. Yet it is propaganda of such men that has led to the Iraq war…. a dead country.

    I guess Ali Sina too has no problem with Shock and Awe – to kill Muslims.

    - – -

    The same effect is observable with Hirsi Ali – an atheist superstar after quitting Islam and moving to states. She has aligned herself with Right Wing Christians and Jews.

    She has openly called for Muslims to be converted to Christianity!

  45. All right M.r Rastogy let's se about yourclaims 1. . Mr.Hasan are u a muslim? or a convert? I doubt, cause, It seems you have a lack of knowledge in Quran and Hadith authentication. You didnt tell anything whats your problem with Sirat e Ibn Ishaq. Please do clarify it. According Hadith ref I know that Sirat e Ibn Ishaq is far older than Sirat-e-Ibn Hisham, Ibn Hisham writes in his al-Sirat al-Nabawiyya quoting from the Imam Muhammad ibn Ishaq. So whoever uses its ref reason is it is far more authenticated than the later one, in a quote u also admitted it. The matter about Ishaq's authenticity is a.)its written directly in raw arabic language b. ) The first prophetic biographer of the Islamic world c.) Muslim scholars accept the accuracy from its earliest biographies( Sirat e Ibn Ishaq) and there is no other all others are later written. So it clearly states, u seem realy lack of knowledge about authenticity of hadith understanding the meaning of the word authentic and reason for omitting that defame Muhammed that you urself admitted.hummThen let me question you Have you ever actually been a muslim before?If you were You would have certainly knew that how unreliable Ibn Ishaq is let me show some of your points and then some of mine c.) Muslim scholars accept the accuracy from its earliest biographies( Sirat e Ibn Ishaq) and there is no other all others are later written. Yes they do by an extent but they also know the mistakes Ibn ishaq had done. for example “Adh-Dhahabi also listed some of the major scholars of Islam who refuted Ibn Is'haq's reliability in Hadith narrations. Imam Malim, for instance, called Ibn Is'haq a liar and Yahya Ibn Saeed al-Ansari, as well as al-Amash refuted one of Ibn Is'haq's narrations by saying that he lied.” Imam Ahmad also said that Ibn Ishaq did not care from whom he collected Hadiths. Imam Ibn Numair said that Ibn Ishaq reported false Hadiths from unknown narrators.” (Shaykh Jalal Abu Al Rub – The Prophet of Mercy – Chapter 2 – Page 10).Ibn Ishaq did not care from whom he collected Hadiths look at this point.Ishaq was not a kafir neither he defamed prophet rather he was like a man who collected anything he got,Without properly judging it.So Ibn ishaq can't be called a good source.So as u admitted Ibn Ishaq sources defamed Muhammad. No but they drew a wrong image as he didn't had the choice and time for judging which were real and which were unauthentic read the next part “False ascription was rife among the 8th century scholars (versus Bukhari who lived in the 9th century) and that in any case Ibn Ishaq and contemporaries were drawing on oral traditions.” ( Cook, M: Muhammad, Oxford 1983. pg. 65) It has been stated by a non muslim! then let's see again Even the famous Polemist and anti-Islam author Robert Spencer admits in his book The Truth about Muhammad , that “However, Ibn Ishaq's life of Muhammad is so unashamedly hagiographical that its accuracy is questionable.” (Spencer, Robert: The Truth about Muhammad, Regnery Publishers, 2006 pg. 25) Despite his negative opinion regarding Ibn IssHaaq, out of the 400 footnotes of Robert Spencer's book, 120 footnote refer to fabricated stories from Ibn Ishaq's book. Because Robert Spencer hates Islam so much that he is willing to present these stories as if they are true, even though he knows that their source is unreliable.Then got it? even Islamphobes consider him as an unauthentic writer whose writtings were edited and been made correct.,If you were a muslim you must have knew that After the civil war many rifts came across the islamic empie of caliphate. Many hidden Hippocratestried to make false allegations on prophet.Without proper ijtihad It was an era when the Islam was under going a brief period of caos so Ibn Ishaq tried his best to preserve the records but he couldn't.If you even doesn't know this I have nothing to say about you. Once you have quoted this most disgusting dishonor to a woman by becoming a sex slave to many???? where have you find this?It's a direct violation of quran where has been stated And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.24;33Does it seems that a woman who will be slave will be a sex slave to many ? If any where is stated like this tell me I know you won't be able to do it.After that you stated that 5. Still a truth is a truth;whatever or however you try to conceal in most elegant and better way. I quoted a hadith source from ur Ishaqs book about Safiyah. a. A Woman of 17 year old( under age by today's term) teenage b. Taken as Captive c. Her husband, father, relatives were killed d. Taken as booty e. Had sex on the same night, the day all her dear ones were killed g. Woman 17 year , Man 62 year, 45 years difference, a complete pedophiliac act of character who claims to be a prophet really. I would like to ask no excuses here either just ans right or wrong, just say if these points are true or false?Let me see your first point Had sex on the same night, the day all her dear ones were killedYou are absolutely wrong about that As stated According to Muhammad al-Bukhari, Muhammad stayed for three days between Khaybar and Medina, where he consummated his marriage to Safiyya.(After Three days )His companions wondered if she was to be considered a captive (Arabic: ma malakat aymanukum) or a wife. The former speculated that they would consider Safiyya as Muhammad's wife, and thus “Mothers of the Believers”, if Muhammad ordered her to veil herself, else she would be his slave-girl.Some modern scholars opine that Muhammad chose to marry Safiyya, the only surviving member of Banu Nadir's ruling family, as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe.Let’s see about this sect Some modern scholars opine that Muhammad chose to marry Safiyya, the only surviving member of Banu Nadir's ruling family, as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe.It’s not an entire truth so let’s see another account Marriage of Safiyah (widow of Kinanah) . -The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free(Look at this sect), and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. “I choose God and His Messenger,” she said; and they were married at the first halt on the homeward march. -The marriage to Safiyyah(R) has a political significance as well, as it helps to reduce hostilities and cement alliances. – This significant act of marrying Safiyyah(R) was indeed a great honor for her, for this not only preserved her dignity, it also prevented her from becoming a slave (Sahih bukhari Volume 3, Book 33, Number 251: Narrated Ali bin Al-Husain)Then you may ask Her husband, father, relatives were killed. (Some citations are needed here)They were not murdered they were car causalities.(You may try to point out another point here okay then it’s for the next time) And You may ask why did she didn’t go and married prophet ? so then here is your answer. “It is related that she bore the mark of a bruise upon her eye; when the Prophet asked her tenderly the cause, she told him that, being yet Kenāna's bride, she saw in a dream as if the moon had fallen from the heavens into her lap; and that when she told it to Kenāna, he struck her violently, saying: 'What is this thy dream but that thou covetest the new king of the Ḥijāz, the Prophet, for thy husband!' The mark of the blow was the same which Moḥammad saw.” cf. Muir (1912) pp. 378-379So nither her marriage was a rape nor she was compelled .And if you tell these proofs as hoaxes then I must question why are you raising questions on these matters ?Then I must see your more points next d.Taken as booty your point is answered here The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her freeThen let’s see the next point g.Woman 17 year , Man 62 year, 45 years difference, a complete pedophiliac act of character who claims to be a prophet really.Do you know the definition of pedophile correctly and properly? Definition of a Pedophile: “Pedophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult.” – Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998Look at this point(The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult.”)So if prophet was a pedophile(Nauzubillah) Then he would have never been able to have sex with any older age women in his life. And even after that safiyah(ra) was a willing candidate for marriage.Even at modern law the age of consent is 17 at many places. So neither it was a crime nor it was pedophilia. Your sixth claim was like this “Thus Islam Advocated Sex slaves, killing n dishonoring the women to forcefully marry or to become sex slaves , continuously doing coitus interrupts, most disgusting dishonor to a woman by becoming a sex slave to many. Those who had rejected the faith they were treated alike. Being a muslim u should feel shame tht islam is just only a pagan cult not even a religion.” 1st point Islam Advocated Sex slaves It’s not true at allindeed Islam condemns he who sells any freeman as slave. As prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) stated Narrated Abu Huraira:The Prophet said, “Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: -1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. -2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, -3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' “(One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price) See this is there any question on slavery of a free man next to your mind ? killing n dishonoring the women to forcefully marry or to become sex slaves. Let’s see if islam promotes it really In an authentic narration from Sunan Al Bayhaqi,Book no. 72 Chapter no. 84 Hadith no. 18001 Maktaba Darul Baz Makkah Mukarramah 1994 It is mentioned:Umar bin al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) sent Khalid bin al-Walid in an army, hence Khalid sent Dharar bin al-Auwzwar in a squadron and they invaded a district belonging to the tribe of Bani Asad. They then captured a pretty bride, Dharar liked her hence he asked his companions to grant her to him and they did so. He then had sexual intercourse with her, when he completed his mission he felt guilty, and went to Khalid and told him about what he did. Khalid said: 'I permit you and made it lawful to you.' He said: 'No not until you write a message to Umar'. (Then they sent a message to Umar) and Umar answered that he (Dharar) should be stoned. By the time Umar's message was delivered, Dharar was dead. (Khalid) said: 'Allah didn't want to disgrace Dharar'Even as an ex-muslim you don’t know this it’s rather unbelievable from you that you don’t know these simple things I assumed that you must have knew these without this I would have told you everything.If you want to know more I will certainly tell you

  46. Syed Umar Rastogi
    Tuesday 3 July 2012, 1:51 am

    4. "As for you black ships has born and will born in a religion. If a black ship doesn't understands the context and the situation(Which must be properly understood) and does this will he be blamed or will quran be blamed ? " Ok lets define it According to different sect and the understanding of Quran and its verses with Hadith , tafsirs using Izma and Kiyas these imams are black ships, and you are claiming that you are not, plz dont argue at this points that u cannot ever proof,Who is the black ship?surely we arent.
    5. ""So here is your answer ………..By the al amin kitab We can get a clear view how many people prophet held captive in wars ……..They were 6579 among them 6211 were set free after paying the ransom 2 people were people ? and he is a blood sucker in your eyes! whatever.———————- Interesting point , let me have the Hadith page ref, cause i havent found it yet. Therefore the book written by Ibn Taymiyyah born (January 22, 1263–1328 CE) seems far more date from the death of prophet and the Sirat e Ibn Ishaq, though its under Shahi muslim. By many of the scholar have dispute over hadith authenticity. Provide more proof relating this matter. But Still Wagng war against to establish Islam as a religion or Muhammad's ideal is not at all accepted, As like Saddam hussain waged war against Kuwait. Therefore even if this Muhammed was found to be releasing the captives does make him to be a Prophetic Quality. If we provide such quality as prophetic than UN is the prophetic convention and should we call him a prophet who wrote UN convention status of POW??? I would say No. As u also understand it. In 1971 Indira Gandhi held all the pakistan army as the status of POW under UN convention, So should we say this Hindu prime minister have a prophetic Quality??? The ans is a clear NO.
    6. ""Many of them came first but you call them manipulations as examples …God is enough for a witness. (al-Fath, 48.27–8)
    One year later the Muslims performed the minor pilgrimage and the year after they conquered Makka. Also, Islam has been prevalent over all other religions for centuries and, if God wills, it will have a world-wide superiority in a near future.""

    I dont get where is the prophetic revelations here, you already hv given me the ans in ur quotes.
    a.) . Al-Hudaybiyyah the peace treaty: From Tafsir Ibn Kathir Qs Al Fath 27-28
    A peace treaty was conducted stipulating that the Messenger would return this year and then come back for `Umrah the following year. The Messenger agreed. However, some of the Companions disliked these terms, including `Umar bin Al-Khattab.
    So in short, Muhammad had a dream, A treaty was obliged by and then he was able to enter and perform. So what's where is the prophecy. Even If i had dream to pass the exam and if i abide by the rules of exam (that is the treaty), So by abiding by the rules of exam to be performed ,any1 can pass it. So where is the prophecy, really I dont get it Do u????? Even French Woman Joan of Arc had dream about winning wars but without any peace treaty, lol
    For ur kind rebuttal of Islamic prophecies http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Prophecies

    7.""wants to paint them it's politics and racism of nationality nothing else.Your next questions are repetitions I have tried to answer them. Look at other comments."""————————-Not clearly identified , My question was during the Golden age of Islam during that time till today why were there so many sects in implication of Loranic Law, Sharia, understanding the verses etc etc.. I can only sense due to contradictions of Quran itself, these sects arose. So they and those immam with fiqah can hv so much doctrine to be followed, it seems still today muslims are subdivided in to groups why would Allah should do such tht may create confusions among its followers.

    plz Provide points as according to and do not add irrelevant points , otherwise i will assume tht u have failed to comply the cause i m seeking for. Thnks

  47. Syed Umar Rastogi
    Tuesday 3 July 2012, 1:51 am

    Mr. Hassan
    Please carefully read every of the sentences and words and the total meaning,
    I m looking here to share my views with a theist like u, who blindly believe, Koran is from God and Muhammad as its Prophet, I with complete utterness deny Muhammad as a prophet for his humanistic shrewd and cunning course of action like a normal people and thus by reject Quran from God.
    A s we cannot discuss all the matters here, so its better to advance step by step. You don't have any problem with Quran but I do. So as the problem is mine; I select the subjects one by one and nullify one by one with ref and verses with clear logic using common sense and intelligence of wit and knowledge.
    We both abide by: Do not bring off topics matter tht hv no valueor irrelevance relating the matter, in tht case, verify why and how it is related dont just write down and I can understand all. Dont give any vague ans. I hope its ok for u. Now plz go to my previous post and nullify with easy language and common serse , if require with verses but do not provide verses that i can place another verse that contradicts ur verses. So do not quote such verses, I hope you got my points very well.
    Now we discuss on matters
    1. Safiya hadith from your's Sirat e Hishami.
    2. Muhammad's prophet hood in justification of Sex with Safiya, Sex slaves, letting Coitus interruptus letting jinah to his companions, which in many verses Muhammad himself given Aya
    3. Justification to such female sex slaves killing their dear ones.
    4. Quarrel, fighting, between understanding Quoran acoording to ijma and Kiyas between many sects at the golden age of Quran. Justificating the reason sect, and according to them, identifying the reason of sect and implication of Quranic verses.
    5. Why Quran is a revelations? whats ur opinion to it? Give reasons according to ur ref and hadith ref.
    I haven't got any response to my points written before, i would request you to ans the post according may be its a repeat or not clarify it, point it one by one. If I don't get any response relating my posts and you are not replying according to my written post or relating to it instead quoting irrelevance posts,I would assume you don't have answer to it and I accept ur admission to the cause.

    Now lets see to your irrelevant post: fast and last time… reply to such post, later I wouldn't not comply to ur such posts..

    1. "also marrying them doesnt comply them as free women.

    Nobody is completely free in Islam, everybody is chained in responsibilities and order. As once said That man is born free but everywhere he is in chains. " —- Its an usual ans, we dont need such ans to clarify the marriage duty, any1 marrying must comply an no children born in this wrld hv borne free. Twisted Ans.. again.

    2. "You will certainly tell that islam considers women slaves" —- So u do agree why it is certain either u wouldn't write it down. plz dont twist here again tht u didnt wanted to let me understand such, We do comprehend what u tried to say. Thnks for agreeing for sex slaves in Islam.

    3. "By hearing this you may tell that prophet himself hurt so many of jews and christians
    but I have to tell you one thing didn't they plotted against him so that they could take Medina ?
    ………………………….and Abdullah ibn Ubai plotted against prophet""

    —————————-These all are apparent from my point of view. Hitler attacked other european countries to establish his ideals of fascism, according to hitler's point of view hir written book "Mainkampf" Hitlers is obviously right and justified to all the Germans and again those countries who were against Hitler's Fascism, Hitler's action is not justified and they tried to protect themselves and the Allied forces planned, attacked, ruin, plotted killings to Hitler to stop his invasion. So every1 has its own view Allied had theirs, and Nazis had theirs. As Hitler failed to establish his fascism history termed him as oppressor and Allied forces were liberator, As like the many Iraqis, USA was a liberator and to the opposition were oppressor. These are apparent factors that may create dilemma or confusions. The most best thing is to let aside these factors, let us be a neutral expectator and justify the factors whether Nazis were right or Allied forces were right? So better not pose such comments that cannot let aside and let being a neutral point of view, so that the outcome result is perfect ok? Lets we are 2 ppl will decide to take a relligion but we dnt know abt, say we are discussing things so that ur comments arent biased, cause biased comments will lead to nothing but encircling the same point sticking to it. I hope you understood very well my point here.

  48. Syed Umar Rastogi
    Monday 2 July 2012, 9:09 pm

    Dear Mr. Hassan
    I m seeing that u theist Muslims try to escape points, when u see, u hv either lack of knowledge or have information shortage that are unauthenticated or illiterate to reply a resourceful comments.
    1. Another point is ppl do not defame Islam, its defamed by its course of action of verses that are the strict rules of Quran and that is practiced by its followers. Thats why laden, taleban, jihadist exists and increasing. Can u deny ? plz ans. if no, write in brief with a verse of Quran and with Hadith ref, may be I have missed something u didnt.

    2. Mr.Hasan are u a muslim? or a convert? I doubt, cause, It seems you have a lack of knowledge in Quran and Hadith authentication. You didnt tell anything whats your problem with Sirat e Ibn Ishaq. Please do clarify it. According Hadith ref I know that Sirat e Ibn Ishaq is far older than Sirat-e-Ibn Hisham, Ibn Hisham writes in his al-Sirat al-Nabawiyya
    quoting from the Imam Muhammad ibn Ishaq. So whoever uses its ref reason is it is far more authenticated than the later one, in a quote u also admitted it. The matter about Ishaq's authenticity is
    a.)its written directly in raw arabic language
    b. ) The first prophetic biographer of the Islamic world
    c.) Muslim scholars accept the accuracy from its earliest biographies( Sirat e Ibn Ishaq) and there is no other all others are later written.
    So it clearly states, u seem realy lack of knowledge about authenticity of hadith understanding the meaning of the word authentic and reason for omitting that defame Muhammed that you urself admitted.humm?

    3. We arent here to judge here the authenticity of hadith as it is already done by our muslim scholars many years before and now too, but as for more authentic resource, we should go to the oldest version, one nearer to the death of Prophet Muhammad. In that case Sirat e Ibn Ishaq is the most. Therefore as I told in the Hisham's book many of the sources omitted, admitted and authenticated by Hisham himself. So what do u deny now? hmm? Do u know, what you are trying to say really? You also agreed that Ibn Ishaq used to defame Mohammed, So if Ishaq is far more authenticated, you already agreed to the point than Muhammed was already defamed in tht old hadith. Hmm..Ur claim seems to be completely false than.
    4. So as u admitted Ibn Ishaq sources defamed Muhammad, I understand Why you think Hisham's book is much more elegant and a better piece of work, as Muhammed showed as better and elegant way in his book by omitting those old sources that are oldest to the resources???? Nice twisting logic han?? I really doubt abt you being a true muslim hun??

    5. Still a truth is a truth;whatever or however you try to conceal in most elegant and better way. I quoted a hadith source from ur Ishaqs book about Safiyah.
    a. A Woman of 17 year old( under age by today's term) teenage
    b. Taken as Captive
    c. Her husband, father, relatives were killed
    d. Taken as booty
    e. Had sex on the same night, the day all her dear ones were killed
    g. Woman 17 year , Man 62 year, 45 years difference, a complete pedophiliac act of character who claims to be a prophet really. I would like to ask no excuses here either just ans right or wrong, just say if these points are true or false?

    6. I wrote: "Thus Islam Advocated Sex slaves, killing n dishonoring the women to forcefully marry or to become sex slaves , continuously doing coitus interrupts, most disgusting dishonor to a woman by becoming a sex slave to many. Those who had rejected the faith they were treated alike. Being a muslim u should feel shame tht islam is just only a pagan cult not even a religion."
    –I have not got any response in this matter, Plz ans to the reference and stick to the point only, u can relate other quotes but that must relate to what is written in hadith and Quran. U cannot deny these words " Sex Slaves", "Coitus interruptus" Dishonoring child female, forcing them in a situation that they have no options but to marry Muhammad, So tht muhammad can legalize his act of sex in place thts a kind of rape. As the marriage seems to be left no other options left or to become sex slaves to Muhammad's warrior. Ans me . isnt it better to be Muhammad's wife rather than a sex slaves to hundreds? Isnt it safe to remain under marriage of Muhammad as Muhammad's lustful eye fall on Safiya to have her with marriage? Wha will be mr hassan's sisters mental and psychological condition, if u, ur father, brother in law and all the relatives killed by me and I see ur sister as my lustful devour to have her at midnight wit completion of all the rituals performed rightfully, so that according to aya of Quran Muhammad is safe. I need ur ans point by point , otherwise if u cannot give any proper reply I would assume u have submitted to the cause.

  49. 6 Ahmadiyya ألأحمديّة 6.1 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community 6.2 Lahore Ahmadiyya Movemen ask anybody without these three all of them are quite good muslims and if somebody wants to paint them it's politics and racism of nationality nothing else.Your next questions are repetitions I have tried to answer them. Look at other comments.

  50. Koran is also a full contradiction and confusions, Muslims themselves fought against each other each claiming their understanding and implications were right, after the muhammad death at the golden age of islam within 200 years 50 subgroups like kharejis, assasins, shiaties, sunnis,hanafi, shalafi etc and many more killed each other. If koran is nt contradictions why there are so misunderstandings and killing muslims,.Even this things were continued still today. Koran doesn't have contradictions it has takhsess(Specification) If any one wants to use It he can do It by calling it a contradiction. As for you black ships has born and will born in a religion. If a black ship doesn't understands the context and the situation(Which must be properly understood) and does this will he be blamed or will quran be blamed ? After That You told that •Sirat e Rasulullah, Ibn Hisham, page 766 “Safiyah was captured in the Khaibar raid and was claimed by the apostle as his share of booty.. She was then seventeen. She was groomed and made-up for the Prophet by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik. They spent the night there. In the early dawn, the Prophet suspected some movement near the tent) . He went out to enquire and saw Abu Ayyub.. He asked him what he was doing near his tent. He replied: “I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, and till recently she was an unbeliever. I was really afraid for you on her account and was guarding you.” The Prophet prayed for Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (Ibn Hisham, p. 766) Earlier in your comment you statedthat Ibn Hisam is n't a 100% true kitab or book I agree with you So let's see about the hadith(I ain't telling this is the end and it proves all still we need to judge circumstances and the perceptions and Shane nuzul also) you.” So that was the marriage banquet of the Prophet and Safiya. Then we proceeded towards Medina, and I saw the Prophet, making for her a kind of cushion with his cloak behind him (on his camel). He then sat beside his camel and put his knee for Safiya to put her foot on, in order to ride (on the camel)” Sahih Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:522and other com-entries from Shibly numani In the aftermath, the female captives were divided amongst Muhammad and his followers.[5] Safiyya was assigned to Dihya ibn Khalifa, but Muhammad selected her while compensating Dihya with two of her cousins,or, according to other sources, seven head of cattle,[3] and according to a differing source, seven female slaves.She then converted to Islam, thereby becoming Muhammad's wife; her dowry being her emancipation.On the way back from Khaybar, the Muslims camped at a place called Sadd al-Rauha. By now, Safiyya was clean from her menstrual period, and the marriage was thus consummated. Thereafter, Muhammad held a banquet of dates and butter in celebration of the marriage, and then returned to Medina. May be you will say how ruthless he is attacking innocent people and marrying their girls without consent So here is your answer Muhammad himself survived several assassination attempts. In one of these, a Meccan tried to crush the Prophet's head with a large boulder while he was praying at the Ka'abah, the holy shrine at Mecca. God, however, miraculously foiled the attempt and the Prophet was saved.Read more: <a href="http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Islam/2002/08/What-The-Quran-Really-Says-About-Violence.aspx#ixzz1zTW6tLyVhttp://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Islam/2002/08/Wha… />As I stated many assasination attempts have been done to prophet(Sm) and seven of them were plotted by jews of khaibar They also gave sanctuary to the enemies of Islam. We never called them an enemy at the first time It was them who called us.So If anybody wants to defend himself against his enemies instead of dying like jesus he is a criminal actullay ? You may call that why did he enslaved girls By the al amin kitab We can get a clear view how many people prophet held captive in wars They were 6579 among them 6211 were set free after paying the ransom 2 people were killed(If you want to say banu qurayza then I have a different point to discuss)215 or more people were enslaved may be 300 so the people who tried to kill him , drove him away,never even wanted diplomacy with him ,hated him all their life even then he set free 97% of them can you show me a leader in today's world who can forgive so many people ? and he is a blood sucker in your eyes! whatever.For your last question 1. Quoran and its all verses are revelations only.- this means verses were given when an incident took place, not before the incident , proof it if its not. The biggest proof of revelation is u need hadith and tfsirs to understand the verses, but tht could be done even if verses were came down at frst than the things were happened according to but it didnt, So whats ur point abt this? U cant go even against koran as its completely a revelation. 2. Koran is also a full contradiction and confusions, Muslims themselves fought against each other each claiming their understanding and implications were right, after the muhammad death at the golden age of islam within 200 years 50 subgroups like kharejis, assasins, shiaties, sunnis,hanafi, shalafi etc and many more killed each other. If koran is nt contradictions why there are so misunderstandings and killing muslims,.Even this things were continued still todayMany of them came first but you call them manipulations as examples The Qur’an gave the news of the conquest of Makka two years before2. It was only six years after the Prophet, upon him be peace and blessings, had emigrated to Madina that he left for Makka for a minor pilgrimage. However, the Makkans stopped him at Hudaybiya and a peaceful treaty was concluded after negotiations. Some articles of the Treaty were objected to by the believers but the Qur’anic verses which were revealed following the conclusion of the Treaty described it as a manifest victory and gave the believers the decisive glad tiding, which is as follows:In truth, God fulfilled the vision of His Messenger: You will surely enter the Sacred Mosque, if God wills, in full security; you will have your heads shaved, your hair shortened, and you will have nothing to fear. He knew what you knew not, and He granted, besides this, a near victory. He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion. God is enough for a witness. (al-Fath, 48.27–8)One year later the Muslims performed the minor pilgrimage and the year after they conquered Makka. Also, Islam has been prevalent over all other religions for centuries and, if God wills, it will have a world-wide superiority in a near future.FINGER PRINTS”Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing” (41:21)(You may tell they are about last day or judgement day but they can be proven otherwise as an assumption)ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAELAnd after him We said to the Children of Israel, 'Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people.” (17:105)So not all of them were done after the incident besides that.Many incidents had an aftermath which was indicated in quran.So it doesn't make sense

  51. Islam and Koran as a pagan cult is already defamed by Muslim extremist like u, they try to define themselves first as what u wrote in bracket later they come out of the falsehoods turning to be a Jihadist. As a muslim u should also know that sirat-e-ibn hisham is not at all 100% authenticated by the Muslim scholars, u even didnt wrote abt what points u would like to quote, cause quoting from Sirat can be nullified by the other authenticated hadith books. Why are u trying to pick sirat-e-ibn hisham instead of so many other more authenticated biography of Muhammad. Though It is one of the most earliest biography of Muhammad but u also know that hisham himself omitted many of the writtings tht could disgrace muhammad I have told it as M.r Sinaconstantly uses sirate ibn ishaq to defame our prophe, so it was my opinion that many sira books don't tell such Manipulated things which were produced after the 150 years of prophets death.So Ibn hisam was both an early source and a quite better source than Ibn Ishaq(Though it was created from Ibn ishaq's war diaries of prophet) it was much much more elegant and a better piece of work,Which can solve many problems of the Islamphobes. But not all also marrying them doesnt comply them as free women. Nobody is completely free in Islam, everybody is chained in responsibilities and order. As once said That man is born free but everywhere he is in chains. Brother please don't read missionary sites and their references they may claim to have the actual record but they don't. Most of their accounts are from these manipulated sources.So please don't do that. You will certainly tell that islam considers women slaves ,dogs etc etc then I wil just tell you to read them carefully (may be you have done it but don't keep haterd when you read it I myself don't hate you we are not taught to hate anyone beside a bad man who hurts other without reason)By hearing this you may tell that prophet himself hurt so many of jews and christians but I have to tell you one thing didn't they plotted against him so that they could take Medina ? Didn't they tried to kill Prohet during tobuk or before in Medina ? Didn't they elected young men to kill him befeore hijrat ? Did they not tried to ruin us ? Did Utba, kab bin ashraf,Rifa bin sattar and Abdullah ibn Ubai plotted against prophet ? Then may be you will call us evil and so we needed to be destroyed so they did this then ask yourself who is propagating hate me or you ?

  52. Syed Umar Rastogi
    Monday 2 July 2012, 5:33 am

    1. Four are Sunni Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali and one Shia: Ja'afri (followed by most Shia Muslims) — just give me a good reason if koran is one and unchanged why its implications were so deviated from each others and why the understanding of it is different to different immam . Another thing if these imams of islamic golden age are in confusions its obvious whatever we know or point out there always be other options but the principle outline is koran is in full contradiction. So there is not point quoting verses and trying to find what is right n wrong if these imams of islam were different in implicating the koranic law.
    (to be continued)
    Therefore according to immam shia and sunni are also different following different imam and claiph, these are

    Shia Islam الإسلام الشّيعيّ
    3.1 Ismailism ألإسماعيليّة
    3.2 Zaidiyyah ألزّيديّة
    3.3 Alawi العلويّون
    3.4 Alevi
    4 Sufism ألصّوفيّة
    4.1 Bektashi
    4.2 Chishti
    4.3 Naqshbandi ألنّقشبنديّة
    4.4 Nimatullahi نعمة الله
    4.5 Oveyssi (or Uwaiysi) الأوَيسيّة
    4.6 Qadiri ألقادريّة
    4.7 Suhrawardiyya ألسّهرورديّة
    4.8 Other Sufis
    5 Kharijite Islam ألخوارج
    5.1 Ibadi العِباديّة
    6 Ahmadiyya ألأحمديّة
    6.1 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
    6.2 Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement
    7 Quranism
    7.1 Ahle Qur'an أهل القرآن
    7.2 Tolu-e-Islam
    and many more
    So, all of them are hardcore followers of muslim, if according to them each are right , there is eventually must be differentiation between a muslim atheist and hardcore muslim like u n urself .
    Just mind this tht all ref here are provided to clarify tht islam n koran is a full of contradiction and misunderstandings between it users himself even they kill each other on the way of Allah each claiming theirs to be right. So where can u define urself to be right Mr hasan? Tell me where do u fit???

    Listen no1 is destroying a fake pagan cult islam, it is being destroyed by itself. No doubt it will be eradicated and demolished from the earth one day, and no soone its already started. Not a single hardcore muslim state is in peace. Now who are u to tell which is peace or not peace . Do u think these all countries politicians suddenly go wrong. Islam advocates politics isnt it? Its time fir u all muslims to understand whats harming u and ur hunanity,.Better be urself rather than a pedophile blood sucker Muhammad. —thnks

  53. Syed Umar Rastogi
    Monday 2 July 2012, 5:33 am

    From ur own sirat-e-ibn hisham sources
    •Sirat e Rasulullah, Ibn Hisham, page 766 “Safiyah was captured in the Khaibar raid and was claimed by the apostle as his share of booty.. She was then seventeen. She was groomed and made-up for the Prophet by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik. They spent the night there. In the early dawn, the Prophet suspected some movement near the tent) . He went out to enquire and saw Abu Ayyub.. He asked him what he was doing near his tent. He replied: “I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, and till recently she was an unbeliever. I was really afraid for you on her account and was guarding you.” The Prophet prayed for Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (Ibn Hisham, p. 766)
    The description of the steamy all night action between the 62 year old Prophet and teenage Safia left the niqabi woman very depressed and the male audience very horny. Imam himself got excited and started thinking about the possibility of killing an infidel and raping his wife, who knows Allah could reward him with paradaise for following in the footsteps of his most beloved apostle..
    Clearly shows Islam advocated by Muslam being a
    1. Rapist
    2. Brought dishonor to female war captives and sure his God Allah allowed him to do such things
    3. Muhammad also was n expert of Coitus interrupts
    4. Forcing women to marry and committed to his cult islam or being used as concubines or prostitutes by coitus interrupts by many muslim warriors.

    These things are more than enough to credit the nullify of Islam as a religion.

    Another thins is u said about good reason, depends on his definition of good reason, so u cannot exactly tell, what were they. what is good reaso for me may be not for u. Muhammad's good reason to wage war against to establish his cult, killing opponents mercilessly, having sex with their wives and sisters and relatives if these are ur good reason we dnt hv any interest or to come in further disclosure.

    Another thing is
    1. Quoran and its all verses are revelations only.- this means verses were given when an incident took place, not before the incident , proof it if its not. The biggest proof of revelation is u need hadith and tfsirs to understand the verses, but tht could be done even if verses were came down at frst than the things were happened according to but it didnt, So whats ur point abt this? U cant go even against koran as its completely a revelation.
    2. Koran is also a full contradiction and confusions, Muslims themselves fought against each other each claiming their understanding and implications were right, after the muhammad death at the golden age of islam within 200 years 50 subgroups like kharejis, assasins, shiaties, sunnis,hanafi, shalafi etc and many more killed each other. If koran is nt contradictions why there are so misunderstandings and killing muslims,.Even this things were continued still today.

    Following the different immamah It clearly states tht how well this pagal cult is divided by as there are acoording to sharia law and its execution, 5 schools were founded including Shia ones,

  54. Syed Umar Rastogi.
    Monday 2 July 2012, 5:30 am

    Mr. Hasan
    Islam and Koran as a pagan cult is already defamed by Muslim extremist like u, they try to define themselves first as what u wrote in bracket later they come out of the falsehoods turning to be a Jihadist. As a muslim u should also know that sirat-e-ibn hisham is not at all 100% authenticated by the Muslim scholars, u even didnt wrote abt what points u would like to quote, cause quoting from Sirat can be nullified by the other authenticated hadith books. Why are u trying to pick sirat-e-ibn hisham instead of so many other more authenticated biography of Muhammad. Though It is one of the most earliest biography of Muhammad but u also know that hisham himself omitted many of the writtings tht could disgrace muhammad
    ""In his own notes, Ibn Hisham made a rather troubling confession — that he had omitted from the biography “things which it is disgraceful to discuss; matters which would distress certain people.” (pg. 691)"" ref : sirat-e-ibn hisham
    Still some of the context that clearly depicts the figure and character of old pedophile Muhammed by which young illiterate Muslims can feel interested about , what Islam proves to give the highest honour to Women by killing their relatives and dear husband in a war were forced to marry or distributed among others to be as sex slaves unless they commited to islam or marry them , and also marrying them doesnt comply them as free women.
    Thus Islam Advocated Sex slaves, killing n dishonoring the women to forcefully marry or to become sex slaves , continuously doing coitus interrupts, most disgusting dishonor to a woman by becoming a sex slave to many. Those who had rejected the faith they were treated alike. Being a muslim u should feel shame tht islam is just only a pagan cult not even a religion.

  55. All Farzad\’s comments are translated and posted in the main body of the debate. This is how he communicated with me.

  56. All Farzad’s comments are translated and posted in the main body of the debate. This is how he communicated with me.

  57. Can moderators please check this issue out?

    Jonathan harrell

    Also please check out spam and filters.

  58. Dear J S.
    Sometimes Administrator deletes some posts automaticly, not all.
    Don't ask why.
    But they reappear. Later.
    Systemerror ?? Human correction.??

    Keep up the god spirit, sister.

  59. I am lost.
    What do this fella Mr. Farzad write.
    I am danish, and I write in a foreign language, can't mr. Farzad please do the same?
    Else I am afraid, we cant communicate.
    Mr. Farzad? Please and all your posts. Please.

  60. Dear Ali.
    I wrote about the TRUE GOD.
    But you are right: the DEMI-God, who has created all this mess, must be male.

    Richard Dawkins is on wini called a militant atheist.
    You are an atheist, too, and you label God: He/She/IT.
    That suits me fine.
    Me, am I an atheist, dont know. I have never met God.
    But I feel much more comfortable with a female God.

    It might seem odd, that it is possible and within full logic to deny the existence of God, and in the same time warn against Satan.

    Oh. Now I remember.
    I am ASA-true.
    I revere the Holy Book of my forefathers: "The Elder Edda".
    It contains much Wisdom.
    But this wisdom is hidden for the imbicile/the unwise.
    Like you say about Jesus. The set of myths are very complex.
    This also counts for the myths in the Edda.
    Not easy to decode.

    But my point with this is: The Edda was composed in the eight or ninth century.
    And if a set of devine Truth and Wisdom is reveled after Mohammed, then Mohammed can't be "The LAST Messenger"

    Mohammed must then be an imposter. A fraud.

  61. Alright I have read some part of your book, and after that I have come here,M.r Sina okay I will try to response to your claims in that book that my prophet was an ill person and needed projak.You have made allegations that from the first day of his life prophet didn't receive love at all so he eventually became schizophrenic all right? okay let's take to this part. If we study prophets sir'a we can get all these phenomena together all right ?

    but please say just one simple thing at first aren't these phenomena common all together in the religious scriptures ?

    it's my first comment (and a very easy one too ) answer this and I guarantee you I will try to show my logic in this aspect

    let's see your article in here

    (9:23) states that the believers should not take for friends and protectors (awlia) their fathers and brothers if they love Infidelity above Islam

    and let's see the sahih International

    O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

    Muhsin khan

    O you who believe! Take not for Auliya' (supporters and helpers) your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.).

    Pickthall
    O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.

    Yusuf Ali
    O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

    Dr. Ghali
    O you who have believed, do not take to yourselves your fathers and your brethren to be (your) patrons, in case they show love to disbelief (rather) than belief. And whoever of you patronizes them, then, those are they (who) are the unjust

    allright from the above section we can get an indication that it's about 'warrior code' or what a warrior shall do in the situation of battle.

    Maybe it's not as clear as it sounds but I think you will try to put our Islam and the golden rule in front of each other stating that a Muslim can't understand what is unilaterally good as they follow Muhammad(Pbuh)

    so the question remains the same is n't it ?

    alright I will read your entire book and then I will talk to you If you want to talk to me.

  62. I can\’t answer to these questions. They are repetitions. I suggest you read more. Eventually you will see the truth is very different from how you see it today. The fastest way is to read my book. It will remove all the veils.

  63. Ali sina you are constantly using circular logic t defame Islam. if it's to be carefully read you can obviously get a clear picture of the prophet.You have never mention anything from Sirate ibn HIsham, or similar books. Every time you have tried to accuse the prophet you have given the same examples which many of them are taken from the orientalists who have hated islam from the first day they have began searching for it. Prophet did never asked for anybody to be killed without any good reason you can't blame any man for just doing a political effort for people.Thus you have read 2:62,5:69 and 3:114or 3:113 verses of quran you have also read the good sayings of quran towards the people of the book you haven't read the sura ankabut where the ahl-kitab has been respected as our brother? If we were so evil why we didn't destroyed the west when we had the power? okay you may say that we didn't follow Islam so strictly then,but at the same time you blame us for destroying the enlightenment in Iran and many other regions in your article you have said

    Islam is the only doctrine that calls upon its believers to do evil to others for the simple fact that they are not believers.

    I laughed when I heard it,You have stated the verse of the sword on the occasion 9:5 but you as a clever man haven't recited the full paragraph or the chapter.Mr Sina how is that possible that a strong critique like you didn't know the basic rules for implementing Quran or how to use it's meaning ?

    does that mean you are deceiving people? why? what is the reason you want to destroy us ?

    So that we may no longer be united? so the Americans can torture us as much as they want? how can 99.99% of the muslims of the world be peaceful even after reading the quran and It's meaning? If it's so violent without the cause? You are trading the same logics that has been used for 1000 years to defame us yet we still survive.You can't destroy us because 99% of the muslims don't preach hate like you and we shall survive no matter what happens.

    (Please don't level me an extremist after hearing this I am very sad for you to condemn our prophet) That's all

  64. Ali sina you are constantly using circular logic t defame Islam. if it's to be carefully read you can obviously get a clear picture of the prophet.You have never mention anything from Sirate ibn HIsham, or similar books. Every time you have tried to accuse the prophet you have given the same examples which many of them are taken from the orientalists who have hated islam from the first day they have began searching for it. Prophet did never asked for anybody to be killed without any good reason you can't blame any man for just doing a political effort for people.Thus you have read 2:62,5:69 and 3:114or 3:113 verses of quran you have also read the good sayings of quran towards the people of the book you haven't read the sura ankabut where the ahl-kitab has been respected as our brother? If we were so evil why we didn't destroyed the west when we had the power? okay you may say that we didn't follow Islam so strictly then,but at the same time you blame us for destroying the enlightenment in Iran and many other regions in your article you have said

    Islam is the only doctrine that calls upon its believers to do evil to others for the simple fact that they are not believers.

    I laughed when I heard it,You have stated the verse of the sword on the occasion 9:5 but you as a clever man haven't recited the full paragraph or the chapter.Mr Sina how is that possible that a strong critique like you didn't know the basic rules for implementing Quran or how to use it's meaning ?

    does that mean you are deceiving people? why? what is the reason you want to destroy us ?

    So that we may no longer be united? so the Americans can torture us as much as they want? how can 99.99% of the muslims of the world be peaceful even after reading the quran and It's meaning? If it's so violent without the cause? You are trading the same logics that has been used for 1000 years to defame us yet we still survive.You can't destroy us because 99% of the muslims don't preach hate like you and we shall survive no matter what happens.

    (Please don't level me an extremist after hearing this I am very sad for you to condemn our prophet) That's all

  65. I think it was Richard Dawkins who said, God must necessarily be male. This much mess can be done only by a male god.

  66. The true God is female.
    To say HE about God is blasphemy.

  67. Oh please stop talking rubbish. all your quotes form the quraan is out of context and misleading. If this religion was soo bad, how is it the fastest growing religion in the world? your half-truths and full lies are fooling nobody. if everyone is good by nature, how is it you are spitting so much evil, disguised as half-truths. You trying to make this religion as a cult, but the religions wants people to spend on the poor, and the needy. all cults keep teh money for themselves and their leaders. The prophet, never kept it for himself. each of your so called verses are 'interpreted' by you to mean something very different that what they actually mean. I can defy each one. why dont you have a real live debate with an actual scholar and he will prove your 'interpretations' are one sided, bias and all lies.

  68. Dear Sina
    i think you are committed to some kind of bias and befor all you mus puriy your mind from bias. i am a musil and although there might not be directly golden rule in quranic verses but there are many verses imply what golden rule commands.your view regarding Islam is based on misconception.for example:هل جزاء الاحسان الا الاحسان

  69. Note the date of this.

    I wonder if this man were still alive whether he would be so fulsome in praise of such a malignant belief system?

  70. You are projecting TeaTotal – you are seeing in the western world what you are choosing not to see magnified as a result of Islam in your own society, so that you can tell yourself that you are virtuous and above reproach. That is pathological. You should get help, but most if not all your society tends to perceive as you do, and I haven't met anyone yet who does collective psychiatry for a whole people.

    Being a Muslim, you are backward, cognitively skewed, lacking in insight and phobic about change. You have no hope, only malignant jealousy of other faiths and peoples to whom following the Golden Rule comes naturally, and therefore they make great advances while you sit in your Islamic Dark Age.

  71. "A lot of love" for whom? Only for fellow Muslims.

    You and your kind make hell on earth, so I don't believe in hell in the hereafter. If there is a heaven, then it will surely be Muslim-free or have ex-Muslims in it who have seen the error of their ways.

    Finally, why do you think that Muslim countries are the most backward in the world? They are not taught to think, reason, debate or learn by enquiry. They are stuffed full of garbled nonsense fed to them from their earliest years, and taught hatred and to hold grudges. How does such a person become curious about the world of science, about others in the world, about music and its effects on the psyche and to love learning for its own sake and to contribute to the betterment of mankind, rather than as a route to staying out of hell fire? Without curiosity and a spirit of enquiry and questioning, Muslims are doomed forever in this life to be barbarians who believe that camel's urine can cure cancer because their prophet drank it (and yet Saudi princes come to the West to be treated for cancer and other serious illness) and never to advance.

    You are a superstitious, credulous fool.

  72. I think you are a liar Uzoozy. If you are telling the truth (which I very much doubt) bring us some statistical proof from a disinterested source.

    You, as a Muslim are still living as your co-religionists did 1432 years ago! Your people haven't advanced one jot – indeed you have become more and more insane.

  73. Is it closed because you lost the argument Uzoozy?

    You certainly had problems when you were young if you were born into Islam and if you chose to follow it later on that's proof positive that you must be mentally disordered.

    You don't get to choose when a topic is or isn't closed. The rest of us do.

  74. people we have to get-together and make an union to face muslim challenge in all over the world not in England .America…I mean as a whole world.then we can take some actions to defeat the muslim threats.

  75. Any one having any question about Islamic reality… then they should refer to the laws of Saudi Arabia. It answers many curiosities…

  76. wearing a costume doesn't make you a Christian.
    Can you back up your slanderous claim?

  77. Reposted from a comment above:
    "No one can stop the Internet and the truth about Islam is spreading like wild fire. Islam’s biggest enemy is truth and the days of Islam are numbered."
    This is so true. People under the rule of Islam now can see people dancing without veils, going to clubs, almost any kind of activity where men and women are free to talk and exchange ideas. They know that if they try to live free they will be killed. There is nothing attractive about Islam, only the deluded see any benefit there. It will be relegated to the dustbin of history when people are free to be able to leave it.

  78. the honours of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue
    Like killing people and stealing their possessions, keeping the women as sex slaves, and having sex with a nine year old?

  79. Satan tempted Jesus in the desert offering Him ALL the richness and pleasures of the world as long as Jesus worship him, this is basically the same thing what all Islamic monarchs and leaders get from worshiping the devil (Islam/Mohammed): possessing ALL their countries' wealth and natural resources(oil), having hundreds of concubines and all the sexual pleasures, absolute power over civil, military and religious organizations, the power to free or incarcerate anyone without questioning and always having the last word on any decision, no wonder they are COMPELLED to impose, extend -no matter the cost- their satanic Islamic religion otherwise Satan will take away their privileges.

  80. I'm appalled by moderate Muslim's defence of the Quran.. I discussed with highly educated Muslim friends from IIT's, one of the finest institutions in India, passages regarding sex slavery and polygamy in Quran – and shockingly they tend to justify it. To my horror, they say different civil laws(Indian civil laws allow Muslims to have 4 wives, reservations in certain areas) are essential for sch a large diverse society to coexist peacefully.

    Sometimes, I feel a moderate Muslim is far bigger threat to society than an extremist one. We know what an extremist wants, a moderate Muslim is uncharted territory.

    Any suggestions on how to deal with des guys.

  81. happy? r u actually happy??????? with ur faith????????

    wonder why u guys are considered terrorists!!!!!!!!

  82. [...] Faith Freedom especially the writings of Ali Sina [...]

  83. My father used to say, if you take a creature from a stinking gutter and put it into a fresh pond – the creature may not like it. It has been used to the smell of the stinking gutter. Its life is there.

    This creature will not understand what fresh water means and how good it is.

    Dont we see the same parallel here? The stinking gutter mind refuses to believe any other culture and religion as better than his own. Here is where all the problems of the world lies.

  84. Don't ask me do what you need. You have to do it for yourself.
    You are probably reading some passage from some fictional novel .

    I am happy. Take care.

  85. "The truth is far from even your apprehension. You are caught into a web of lies and a construct of deceit. Pretending does not help. Your whole life will become pretence if you so choose. Perhaps it already is. Free yourself if you can, from this stupidity."

    It was meant for you…it applies to you. Do not be to clever in your approach. You reveal your rank stupidity.

    Do heed the advice I give you. You will have to one day…your arrogance of vacuity borne of ignorance will be burst wide open…it's only a matter of time.

  86. Knew / see is the same insight . Just don't be hazy in making conclusions look at below in comments.

  87. The truth is far from even your apprehension. You are caught into a web of lies and a construct of deceit. Pretending does not help. Your whole life will become pretence if you so choose. Perhaps it already is. Free yourself if you can, from this stupidity.

  88. Strange…you said "knew the truth" now you say "see the truth"…you imagine that you can I suppose.

    You only see your own ego…not even close…wake up!

  89. I think what happened is that I had two browsers opened on the same page. Your last response and my own reply on one browser and closed it, then some times later edited the other browser and saved it. But this browser did not have the updates. Your reply was safe in the comment buy my reply was all deleted. Fortunately WordPress keeps the history. I found my reply to you in the history and posted our last exchanges. But I don't know why the comments were unticked. I was surpirsed why no one is commenting until I saw what you wrote here.

  90. If you can see Truth!
    Why you are so worried bunny ha ha ha

  91. Islam and the Quran are delusion for humanity. A nightmarish delusion.

    You didn't address what I said at all…instead you resorted to ad hominem.

    Predictable.

    Your lack of argument confirms my own.

    Congratulations, you are finally "revealing" the truth…without knowing it of course.

  92. Do you understand English? Do you understand what "try" means? Please read carefully…read your Quran carefully to…you appear to be an idiot.

  93. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Iran-Dont-Kill-N

    Youcef Nadarkhani is an Iranian pastor who has been sentenced to death for being a Christian!!!! Please sign the petition!!

  94. [youtube -3NAYAjD-XU&list=UUAkHiwTy6aPMGby98hmuUhg&index=36&feature=plpp_video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3NAYAjD-XU&list=UUAkHiwTy6aPMGby98hmuUhg&index=36&feature=plpp_video youtube]

  95. True there is a large crowd who don't know about FFI in Southern Africa. I feel that I am the only person knowing about this site and the only person who has aquired so much knowlege through this site.When I do mention about it, people just don't seem interested. I believe that people here are happy to be muslims and are becoming more "holy". More and more people are starting to go the Hijab route because every day they get brain washed by Mufti Menk.

  96. Truth holds the situation irrespective of your thoughts.

  97. Folks are advised to conclude after wider analysis.

    Platform 1 : Scriptures
    Platform 2 : History
    Platform 3 : Belief
    Platform 4 : Morality
    Platform 5 : Psychology

    More platforms are available on request.
    Any conclusion from one platform intersecting conclusion from other platform for the same will be invalid.

    Any previous conclusion made will be rejected.

  98. "The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species."
    – Christopher Hitchens

  99. The Golden Rule, The Law of Reciprocity, The Wiccan Rede, or whatever it might be known as is the solid foundation. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you should be somebodies punching bag. Sure Jesus says to "Turn the other cheek." but as my father used to point out, "Remember that you only have two cheeks."

  100. I work and live in America , I love the average American they arewonderful people.All people are the same.When people become intolerant that upsets me.And if they say bad things about l am I am duty bound to say somethingOtherwise for me its a good life for me and my family.Hope U are doing good and may your life be the best ever.

  101. Uzoozy we're waiting enlighten us

  102. Truth is a public property. Every one who claim to have it will be entertained.

  103. Mr.Sina

    Why you eliminate translate of my last answer and your respond to it? Why you closed the command box? Why you changed the title of debate?

    Unfortunately I just saved your answer and didn’t save the translation of my last answer to you please return it again.

    Here is your last answer and my respond to it.

    Mr. Farzad,

    Is this all you can say? You start with a few ad hominem comments and end your article by saying I don’t understand logic. You also say that I will die one day and my life will be wasted. How do you want me to respond to these? Shall I remind you that in my view you are the one whose life is a waste? What is the point of these talks? We are here to prove our points of view.

    You say Allah has promised to protect his religion. In that case why did you want to debate with me? Din’t you come to prove me wrong? You couldn’t and now leave it to Allah?. Let me tell you that Allah is not god. He is the figment of Muhammad’s imagination. The reason Islam has survived so far is because Muslims silenced and killed any person who criticized it. But things have changed. No one can stop the Internet and the truth about Islam is spreading like wild fire. Islam’s biggest enemy is truth and the days of Islam are numbered.

    You say if man’s faculties are acquired through evolution then he cannot be superior to animals because he has not worked for them. Who said man is superior to other creatures? We are smarter. Of course we ascribe more value for our selves than we do to other animals. I doubt animals share this opinion. This argument about superiority and inferiority is absurd. We are humans and have to live like humans. Animals should live like animals. The problem arises when some people live like animals. Raiding, raping, plundering, abusing, beating and imprisoning others is not human behavior. That is my problem with Islam. Muslims devalue humans and treat them like animals and in the process they act like animals.

    You say, “When I say the morality of man that is rooted in nature has no value it does not mean that necessarily man is immoral and his essence is satanic.” Didn’t you say without religion there is nothing to stop man to raise and eat his own kind? You obviously don’t think much of humans. Now you try to backpedal. But if you agree that man’s dignity is intrinsic then what was all that talk about human dignity must come from out of nature?

    You justify beating, imprisoning, raping and killing and think all that is divine because they are sanctioned by your religion and practiced by your prophet. What if your belief is a lie? Shouldn’t you investigate the claim of Muhammad before committing all these crimes?

    For your information, I don’t subscribe to liberalism. Liberalism is another sickness of mind barely better than Islam. I am a free man, a rational being and I value my independence of thought and my individualism. I don’t subscribe to any ideology. I am a prophet to my own self, not a follower of any school of thought.

    Thank you for this debate. This was a subject I had not discussed before and I am happy I did. I think we managed to shed light on many important issues such as what Muslims think about themselves and others as human beings.

    Wish you the best

    جناب سینا

    بحث کردن با کسی که از منطق چیزی نمی داند مانند بحث کردن با کودک دوساله است بر سر اثبات اینکه بستنی برای مریضی او خوب نیست.

    هدف اصلی من از بحث با شما این بود که در مرحله اول به خودتان و در مرحله بعد به خوانندگان ثابت کنم که شما چیزی از منطق نمی دانید و شما اعتراف کردید که منطق نخوانده اید.

    تمام ادعاهای شما تراوشات ذهنی بیماری حراف و یاوه گوست که با تکرار مکرر این کلمات:

    Raiding, raping, plundering, abusing, beating and imprisoning others

    به ارگاسم فکری می رسد و چنان به این استمنای فکری معتاد شده که گاه در یک نوشته کوتاه مانند این نوشته آخر با یک مرتبه تکرار ارضاء نشده، دوباره آن را تکرار می کند.

    اگر من در جایی کوتاه آمده و از زاویه دید یک منکر خدا انسان را بررسی می کنم برای این است که به کودکان دبستانی که از منطق چیزی نمی دانند واقعیت وجودی انسان را بفهمانم و الا طبیعتی که این همه هنرمند است که قادر است موجودی با این همه قابلیت بسازد چرا تنها به همین یک مورد بسنده کرده است چه چیزی مانع شده از اینکه قدرت خود را در راه بزرگتر کردن مغز سایر حیوانات از دست بدهد؟ چه اتفاقی افتاده که بنابر نظر بعضی از بزرگان علم تکامل، تکامل در زمان ما متوقف شده؟ اصلا در آن چند میلیارد و چند میلیون سال چه غلطی می کرده که قابلیت او در این چهار یا چهل هزار سال اخیر در ساختن انسان متمدن بروز کرده است؟ شما خوب می دانید که این موضوع یکی از بزرگترین معماها و مجهولات علم روز است.

    موضع من به عنوان یک مسلمان کاملا محکم و پا برجاست من معتقدم که درک خوبی و بدی توسط خداوند در وجود انسان نهاده شده است:

    وَ نَفْسٍ وَ مَا سَوَّئهَا، فَأَلهَْمَهَا فجُُورَهَا وَ تَقْوَئهَا، قَدْ أَفْلَحَ مَن زَكَّئهَا، وَ قَدْ خَابَ مَن دَسَّئهَا

    و قسم به جان آدمى و آن كس كه آن را (آفريده و) منظّم ساخته، سپس فجور و تقوا (شرّ و خيرش) را به او الهام كرده است، كه هر كس نفس خود را پاك و تزكيه كرده، رستگار شده

    و آن كس كه نفس خويش را با معصيت و گناه آلوده ساخته، نوميد و محروم گشته است!

    بدون وجود خدا انسان تنهای حیوانی از حیوانات جنگل است منتها حیوانی که در این چند ثانیه آخر عمر خود (نسبت به وجود حیات چند میلیارد ساله روی زمین) یاد گرفته کمتر وحشی باشد تا در آسایش بیشتری زندگی کند.

  104. "Islam and Quran is the salvation for humanity"
    Well, it depends… Of course, there are those peaceful Muslims you talk about, who are good parents, good friends and good citizen. But there are also non-Muslims who are just as sweet, help the poor, respect all creatures… Will those non-Muslims go to heaven when they die, according to you? Or will they go to hell because they're non believers? Remember, they're really good, compassionate people!
    Also, if there's a Muslim, that believes in the Quran, but beats his wife, pulls her hair, rapes his maid… etc. Will he go to heaven??

    I would like to know your opinion on the matter, please

  105. As a side note, why are you so scared of america and non-muslims, Uzoozy? Who filled your head with weird thoughts like "In america fathers rape their kids"? Is that why you're so scared of non-muslims? because you believe this? People are people, religion has nothing to do with it. You can be muslim and still rape your kid. Not all muslims have that "peace" you talk about.

  106. So accordingly Truth can be destroyed ha ha ha

    BTW you ever yourself knew Truth ?

  107. Thanks for yor email.I do not care about Ali Sina who cares, another usless person.We need to spread peace and harmony in the world.Islam is an religion as stated by many countries including Pres. Obama, LFDS is a cult plenty of sex with small children.Islam is a good and the best of all the religions.

  108. "Our job in the world is to give the message"
    Islam has been spread by the sword. Muhammad himself murdered thousands.

    "For other Allah veils them so that they cannot see or hear."
    Why does he do that? Does he specifically choose which one of us he wants to torture in hell? Your god is pathetic. He's so insecure he needs to be constantly praised and worshipped 5 times a day by his own creation otherwise he'll have a tantrum and burn everybody in hell, he's a psychopath and a sadist. Humans have been around for over a hundred thousand years. People have died because of wars, famine, natural disasters and your god decides that the best thing to do solve this problem is to reveal himself to a bunch illiterate sheep herders in the middle east. This is laughable. Your God is clearly retarded.

  109. The fact that an opinion is widely held does not automatically make it true. The whole world can convert to Islam tomorrow this does not mean Muhammad really was a prophet. At one point the whole of mankind used to believe the earth was flat and that did not turn out to be true. Bertrand Russell said "a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. ”

  110. "having left Islam and trying
    to justify your apparent move to ….."
    I told you before I don't follow any religion, I'm an athiest. And i wasn't trying to justify anything I was explaining why people join cults like Islam.

    "The people that convert to Islam are priests and educated persons "
    Why can't any of your "educated persons" answer Ali Sina's challenge?

    "Your singer Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) became Muslim"
    I'm not intrested in what some stupid singer does or what relgion Tony Blair's sister in law converts to, appealing to authority is a fallacy. Fame does not make you anymore inteligent, in my opinion celebs tend to be more foolish than ordinary people.

    .

    .

  111. You are in a very confused state of mind, having left Islam and tryingto justify your apparent move to …..The people that convert to Islam are priests and educated persons whohave sorted ouit the world and found Islam to be the most compatable.Your singer Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) became Muslim, like him most ofthe people like to remain muslims.Our job in the world is to give the message and Allah does the rest,thats what people are talking about.Yes after one night stands they realize that they need to talk toAllah directly and they do and get the blessings of peace andtranquility.For other Allah veils them so that they cannot see or hear.Islam and Sharia is Allahs guidance to us , if you do not follow youare the looser.In every religion there is reward and punishment Islam is no different.Islam teaches peace and tolerance where the other notions came from Ido not know.Hope Allah turns these people to do good deeds. Allah does not changepeople unless they change what is inside them.Its the rave these days to blame Islam.You must have read the Quran and am sure you are from Iran where theyhave Allah in their hearts only.Take care

  112. I have met a few people who have converted and have watched and read loads of testimonies and one thing all these people have in common is that they all have very low self esteem. They always give the same stupid reason for converting 'Islam gives me a place where I belong" or "I just felt this emptiness inside unti I find islam" These people spend their lives drinking , taking drugs and having sex until they get sick of it and turn to the magical man in the sky for comfort. There the same people who jump from one religion to another looking for some meaning to their pathetic lives. It's extremely rare to find someone who's converted to a religion because they've found any evidence proving that religion true. Cults like Islam are perfect for weak, lonely and insecure people. Only ignorant or evil people convert to Islam. Why would any sane women convert to islam knowing full well that islam discriminates against women and Muhammad was a mass murderer?

    "Converts who have turned to terror include Nicky Reilly, who tried to
    blow up a restaurant in Bristol with a nail bomb, shoe bomber Richard
    Reid and July 7 bomber Germaine Lindsay"

    Islam turns people into psychopaths.

  113. You are just an ignorant person.If you play beethoven to a donkey he just bays.Most muslims love life and Allah and the prophet.When its time to go you go, nothing to it.There is heaven and hell like mentioned the donkey.Islam and Quran is the salvation for humanity.

  114. They were wrong. It's simple to understand this, use your brains.

  115. Muslims are always afraid of death, that is why they remain muslims. They are also afraid of life because they are muslims. Everything is deferred to Jannat…they cannot risk the Hell described in the Quran, which is vividly real as a consequence to them, they are held in a bind, in trance to it's terror. This is fear. They yearn for paradise, where their earthly desires will all be satisfied…this is escape from fear. The muslim is easily revealed and stands naked before the enquiring mind.

  116. The only hypocrite is the one who hears the truth, recognises it and yet still denies it…or worse, tries to destroy it.

  117. This is a good post in what, todayin Tunisia there is a conflict with the Islamic party with the people who want freedom. Read more about this article.
    http://www.maghrebchristians.com/2012/03/07/marzo

    Youssef

  118. Simon Ockley wrote in his book The History of the Saracen Empires (1718);

    "The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral force…It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran. . . The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. 'I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God' is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."

    [Edward Gibbon and Simon Ockley, THE HISTORTY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRES, London, 1870, p. 54.]

  119. To be fair, those horrors (rape, incest) don't only happen in America. They happen everywhere in the world. But in Arabian countries, when a girl is captured for sex, if there weren't 4 witnesses while she was being raped, the law says she's a liar.
    But it doesn't mean it's not happening!

    Come on, be serious. I'm not attacking the God you believe in, I'm attacking the laws you believe in…

  120. Uzoozy is right ! Muslims like him are not afraid of death, they are afraid of HELL. A Hell that anyone who has been to a non-islamic school knows, doesn't exist. Fear of Hell has crippled the muslims so bad that they call Muhammad's sleeping with a 9yr old a 'divine' thing even though they know it is very immoral.

    Don't you feel lucky you are not a muslim !

  121. A snake in the grass is poisonous.

  122. The Hadeeth where Muhammad says woman should prostrate in front of men is actually found in Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 11, Number 2135 not in sahee bukhari. I acidently mixed them up sorry.
    The rest of the hadeeths are correct I just double checked them. You can check for yourself on this website http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/

    I live in England and I've never seen 10000 women converting to islam, this is nonsense. I'm an ex muslim and I know plenty of others who have left islam. There's an ex Muslim at my college who still wears her headscarf because she doesn't want her parents to get suspicious.

    Women in Islam do not have equal rights. Period. Read the above verses again. Men can beat there women. Women’s testimony is worth half of a man. Her inheritance is half of a man. Why do you insist on fooling yourself?  

  123. Muslims are never ever afraid of death, Muslims pray to die early tocommit less sin.You are talking from your a……

  124. It tells me you are American and a feminist. the world of men/women weall use the same the same public bathroom. play all the games togetherand men can bear kids.Till then you intelligent super women the very best to you.

  125. "what
    does that tell you." That women are deficient in intelligence.

  126. GOOD FOR YOU, I CANNOT FIND ANY OF THE NUMBERS YOU HAVE PROVIDED.So what is it you want.Women are equal to men, 100000 women in UK became Muslim in 2011, whatdoes that tell you.All wear the hihab and are happy with them selves. UK exprimeministers sister in law became muslimWhy ?????

  127. 'Women and men have same intelligence IQ.'

    Muhammad disagrees.
    Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

    "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

    Chapter 4 verse 34 of the Quran gives permission to men to beat their wives.

    Women also inherit less than men

    Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.  4.11

    'Women are the most important member of the Islamic household.'

    This is nonsense.
    Muhammad went as far as to say women should prostrate in front of their husbands: 
    Bukhari Book 11, Number 2135:
    Narrated Qays ibn Sa'd:

    “If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah.”  

    Qur'an (2:223) – "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will…"

    The following Hadith also makes it clear that women are created for men and for their satisfaction.

    Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said, "If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband)."

    Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 33:
    Narrated Usama bin Zaid:

    The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

    Clearly Islam does not have a very high opinion of women. http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/muhamma

  128. No women are not deficient in intelligence.Islam is the only religion which provides for settlement for women.The whole stuture in Islam is different, you are so hell bent on yourpoint of view you cannot see beyondWomen and men have same intelligence IQ.Men cannot get anything from the womens inheritance, men are notsupposed to take any money from the wife which belongs to her.She may be willing give is a different story.So a women gets her share from her extended family and gets her sharefrom the husbands family and if any of her childrens inheritance.Men are mandated to look after the family even when divorced , so thewife can live in reasonable comfort.Women are the most important member of the Islamic household.Women in other major religion get nothing except the boot.

  129. Uzoozy, you still have not answered my question. Do you believe woman are deficient in intelligence and their testimony should be worth half of a man's as Muhammad did?

  130. There are plenty of Muslims around the world who are good people, but these Muslims are moderates or non practicing Muslims. Most of them have never studied Islam and have no idea what it truly teaches, they fool themselves into thinking Islam is a religion of peace. The devout Muslims aka the extremists and radicals are the true followers of Muhammad.

  131. There are many schools of thoughts one of them places it at 22 yrs old.One thing is for sure Aisha(pbuh) had reached pubity when she was married.In America they just capture girls have sex and have kids in their houses.In Belgium father and daughter has kids , this is the moral value of today.Come to this world and see how many immoral things are taking place

  132. Will you stop hallucinating?
    I am busy working .

  133. Innovations in worldly matters, such as science, medicine and technology are generally acceptable and encouraged, bid‘ah within the religion is generally considered a sin. (.)

    We are dealing you people where you stuck with modern life physio-psychological problems like mal-adaptive behaviors.

  134. Aouch :D
    TeaTotal you better stick to drinking tea, the hole is getting deeper and there's no way out :)

  135. Now you admit your prophet had sex with child Aisha you two faced Muslim

  136. Taqiyya is Cancer

  137. He’s bringing up 1430 yrs old IMMORAL stuff (which is called studying history) but you're believing in these stuff. Wonder how’s the stupidest?

    It’s never about time, Immoral is immoral at any era.

    'Your prophet could not have sex, so you are jealous.'

    1- Jesus is not a prophet, he is God.
    2- Jesus whether you believe in him or not was more miraculous than Mo (even in Quran) and has perfect teachings. You can never find a fault in him or his teachings.
    3- Your prophet MO deceived everyone so he can have power and more sex. Oh yeah I’m jealous, he’s so great. I’m thinking of living like he did, who cares if i cause so much pain to others, who cares if I end up in jail in this life and in hell after it, I’ll get power supported by criminals, coward followers like you and lots and lots of sex.

  138. I have Muslim friends that I love and respect, and that don't treat me like a Kafira… They also wouldn't let ANYONE get anywhere near their 2,4,6 and 8 year old girls!!

  139. At least Christians don't tell kids who were raped by priests that it is something "divine" because priests are "men of God"…

  140. Nothing "absolutely immoral" can be suddenly "divine"!!! I liked you people better when you were claiming Aisha was 22 years old!

  141. If God asks me to give my 9 year old daughter to a man, no matter how sexy or rich or blessed he is, then it would mean that I'm wiser than God.
    God didn't allow those horrors to happen. Weak fanatic parents did.

  142. "We are prescribing essential medicines and still our research department is busy in experimenting new medicines"

    Bida (Innovation) is Haram in Islam, TT. Your research department is gonna go to HELL.

    Except if your research dept. people are inventing new taqiyya (deception) tricks. Verily Allah is just and merciful.

  143. Diseases discovered

    Some of the people can't digest facts about ISLAM and starts abusing this is know as VERBAL DIARRHEA

    Some of the people repeat same and same issues over and over this is know as MENTAL ECZEMA

    Some unfortunate people are denying everything about ISLAM this is CANCER

    We are prescribing essential medicines and still our research department is busy in experimenting new medicines .

    All patients are requested to have patience GOOD LUCK

  144. I am sorry you have cancer. Unfortunately this disease exist.

  145. Ali Sina is crooked minded. Believe good guys that will give you peace not hatred

  146. I am learning that unfortunately the influence of cults on a human, the brainwashing in the name of loyalty, and the fear of Hell, are more powerful than being shown facts.

  147. I watched that video, and I also read the article linked to by sorrowSnake, and it is crystal clear that the video is nothing but Taqiyya. In the article Ali said, "Muslims are not ashamed of the fact that their prophet was a pedophile, but embarrassed for everyone knowing it ".
    Your claim has long been demolished buddy, and my disease, Islamoloathia has worsened.

  148. day 1: pray for five times
    day 2: hijack a passanger jet and crash it to a building, blow up christian funded hospital, attack a girl school…this is what it is

  149. hating and cursing seems easy rather than facing the truth..u perhaps not lost any dear ones, but i had, they were killed by islamists..i always wondered, why do u call us kafir, what my friends did to u, as they were blown up? ur religion instead of treating us with human treated with as ur self proclaimed enemy..if u respect, u will get the same, now whole world is erupting against muslim, what is ur view about that? we are just a small bunch of people here, there is a large bunch who havent even heard about FFI, oppressed by the jihad (sic)

  150. If we look at you , you are the stupidest guy bringing up 1430 yrs old stuff.

  151. The claims that your video brings up have been refuted a 100 times. Please read this article written by Ali Sina. http://alisina.org/aisha-the-child-bride-of-muham

  152. 'Your prophet could not have sex, so you are jealous.'
    That's the most stupidest comment I've ever read.

  153. Check this out
    [youtube v7Ki6Tv9Vgg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7Ki6Tv9Vgg youtube]

  154. Rape and pedophilia are problems all over the world. Western countries release their statistics to the public so the people can acknowledge the fact that their is a problem and do something about it. Women are protected by the law and rapists are punished severly. Pedophiles are absolutely despisesd and are hunted mercilessly even if the crime happened a good 40 years ago. There is no justice for women in muslim countries, rape victims do not even report the crime to the authorities because they are ashamed, if she gets pregnant she will be thrown in jail for adultry or sex before marriage, and sometimes the victims are murdered by their own families to restore the families honour. Also some Muslim countries such as iran require 4 witnesses to prove rape so it is impossible to convict a rapist. Thosands of woman are in jail in Pakistan because this stupid law. Just google it.
    So you see rape statistics are low in Muslim countires because it is almost impossible to convict a rapist and women do not report the crime because they would bring shame on their family if they do so.
    Marrying a 9 year old is sunnah in Islam and child marriages are common in Muslim countries, look it up for yourself.
    You can keep running from the truth all you like but muhammad did marry aisha when she was six and had sex with her when she was 9. He was a pedophile, end of story.

  155. BTW you are sikh right !
    Good luck learner(sikh).

  156. It is absoluteley immoral to have sex with kids.In the case of Aisha(pbuh) marriage was devine.Talk present days where a lot of immoral things are happening.

  157. You are talking as if it is wrong and immoral to have sex with kids! Well, is it or isn't it Uzoozy?

  158. Is that really all you can respond to my question. Let's try again….. I'll narrow the question down…..

    In your opinion, Is sleeping with a 9 yr old girl a crime or not?

  159. Yeah bro promote homosexuality in your cult so that automatically stop your cult then you won't need me for comment any more

  160. Apply your medicine on yourself. TDS for 15 days

  161. Take a hike.Worry about things right now, how many rape of kids by christainpriests are taking place right now, what are you doing about it. Over1000 kids sodomised in Ireland alone besides the thousands in Usa andelsewhere.May Allah bless my prophet and his wives.

  162. You are suffering from mental eczema and don't have option to rub it again and again !

  163. What do you define to be a crime? In your opinion, is sleeping with a 9 yr old girl a crime or not?

    If the deeds of Muhammad are not crimes then people already are in a utopian world, and have been for the last 1400 years.

  164. ha ha.. this comment was expected from a person of the cult..

  165. @uzoozy, u are living in utopia..in a perfect muslim world it is impossible, face the truth. not all muslims kill people but sadly they follow a cult, which is poisoning the world. everybody knows the truth but they are afraid because of the fear. This fear is uncommon to Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrians, sikhs. But the fear is real even if u are living in an western country. the fear of death. I am sure i am already in hell :D , hey ur Mo Mad man says hello to u from there :P

  166. I sincerly hope that all crimes go away and we live in an Utopion world.

  167. When the parents had Aisha (pbuh) married they must be knowing whatthey were doing.God allows what he wills, Aisha became Islams spokes person for many years.Get a life move on you will never understand the wisdom behind the deed.

  168. we Apply this medicine on ourselves by first admitting what was done wrong then trying to fix it.

    You Islam, the house of rape and sex slaves, do not admit even these charges (which are more than USA and EU combined) then how do you want to fix it.

    oh righ…….. you don't want to fix it… you think it's you're right to do that

    وداوني بالتي كانت هي الداء

  169. You need a professional help. Hating is screwing you up dear

  170. "Before you go crazy accusing others, take a look at your home"

    Apply your medicine on yourself.

  171. Ignorant

  172. Where are you Uzoozy? You ran to spread your poison elsewhere?

    You better run muslims
    TIME TO ANSWER TO THE TRUTH

  173. USA keep record of crimes.

    In KSA, Morocco, Egypt, Syria… Records of rape are not kept and if they are numbers won't fit in your comment.

    that is reality check

  174. USA keep record of crimes.

    In KSA, Morocco, Egypt, Syria… Records of rape are not kept and if they are numbers won't fit in your comment.

    Before you go crazy accusing others, take a look at your home

  175. THAT IS CALLED RUNNING!
    You directed the conversation toward actions that for your information others think are wrong and punishable by their law.
    Your Prophet did have sex with child Aisha, Shariaa and Quaran legalize child marriage and sex slaves. END OF STORY.
    No matter what you believe or what you come up with you can’t change the truth

  176. Did you complain when you "wasted your seeds"(being polite) when you where getting that kind of information?

  177. But you see, all those bad things happening don't mean rape is a normal thing! They don't mean that marrying a kid is "better"!

  178. So does the rape of millions of children in America make it any less horrific for a 50 year old man to marry a 6 year old?

  179. When you get some time free from blame game. Better check what's really going on.

  180. There is nothing to run away from.I believe what happened to Aisha(pbuh) happened 1430 yrs ago. I knowthough studying this subject that Aisha (pbuh)was 22 yrs old.Now in America 15% of school kids are being molested/raped by teachers.One rape every 7-17 seconds or around 12,000 rapes take place every day.In USA there was child molestation by priests contless kids have beendamaged for life.(may Allah bless them all) , todays news in Irelandthousand of innocent kids have been sodomised for many generations.One priest had sex with kids twice a month for 25 yrs.One priest is alleged to have molested over 1000 kids.LIfe is turning widest in the most unexpected places.Its frightening to even think about it.And you think 1430 yrs was bad.

  181. Run away like a little girl uzoozy.

  182. Not true.The millions of children you refer to are raped in America, averageis that 15 percent of all school kids get molested during their schooldays.There is an rape every 7 to 15 seconds in USA.Where is the morality we all talk about.We are so concerned what happened 1432 yrs ago and cannot looks thingsthat are happening around us.

  183. Aisah is history. We are not concerned about her. We are concerned about millionso of innocent children who are abused in this way because child marriage is a sunnah.

  184. This subject is closed, looks likle you had some problems when you were young.God bless you.

  185. Uzoozy, you are the ignorant one since you believe in the division of humanity as required by Islam: Believers and Disbelievers. This is clearly not the Golden Rule.

  186. Do you also also believe that woman are deficient in intelligence and their testimony should be worth half of a man's as Muhammad did?

    Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

    "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

  187. In the hadith that i quoted in my previous two posts Aisha herself says that Muhammad consummated the marriage when she was 9, so who the hell are you to say she was 22?

    'Our prophet was directed by Allah to act the way he did.'
    No this just the excuse Muhammad came up with so he can get what he wanted.

    The man you emulate everyday is a man who had sex with a 9 year old girl when he was in his 50's. How pathetic!

  188. Our prophet was directed by Allah to act the way he did.At 22 they had consumated the marriage.She was at Prophet Muhammeds(pbum) house so what.The Lord works in mysterious ways afer that The mother of allmuslims(Aisha PBUH) led the muslim world for a very longtime, longafter all the other significant ones had died.Its amazing how a thing like this becomes a major issue ,Get a life and move on.

  189. Does a 20 year old girl play with dolls?

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
    Narrated ‘Aisha:
    I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

    I'm not a Christian, I don't follow any religion. Solomon may have had thousands of concubines, this does not take Muhammad of the hook.

    Btw you spelt 'Muhammad' wrong.

  190. Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
    Narrated ‘Aisha:
    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

    This hadeeth is narrated by Aisha herself and she clearly states that she was six when Muhammad married her and the marriage was consummated when she was 9.

  191. Though the age of Aisha was around 20 yrs when they married.
    However how we think now is very different than 1400 yrs ago.
    Your prophet Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines to deal with.
    Mumammed was and is the most holy person in our world.
    Try reading the bible you will have a hair raising experience.

  192. Put search button on your head if you don't know how to use information.

  193. Muhammed was no different to any other cult leader, he threatened people with hell and then bribed them with heaven and gave no evidence whatsoever to back up his ridiculous claims. He murdered thousands of Jews ( Banu Qurayza, Khyber) after he gained power in medina and also molested Aisha when she was 9 years old after he married when she was six.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
    ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
    Narrated ‘Aisha:
    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

    Only a fool who is so blinded by his faith can call Muhammad the greatest person to have ever lived.

  194. Farzad

    The golden rule is here to stay, Muslim indignation not withstanding. As far as your critic of Ali Sina using a different discussion of yours to "attack" you on the G.R. discussion. I am not sure what you meant? do you not stand by your words regarding felicity?. You didn't make it clear if you do or don't.But if you don't stand by your own words, then congrats ! you are thinking like your PedMo. you deserve the honorary(pbuh) just like PedoMo deserves it!, i.e. Farzad (pbuh).

  195. Uzoozy what do you have to say about that?

    or you chickened out like all Muslims do?

  196. BTW i am J S

  197. my replies showed up after all.
    Does that make my intentions good?

  198. do you watch porn then? you know so much..wow..why not take your wuduk and do your prayers for forgiveness of sin

  199. Muslim fight against muslim; thats the truth; a muslim will have jealously for his brother's success that is the truth; Egypt a great civilization ruined bcoz muslim is against muslim…you can pray 5 times a day and gossip all day long; you can all type of ghost and jins attacking you

  200. Thousands of pornographic content is available featuring Padres and nuns. And all culprits involved are Christians. Do any one need certificate of modesty from these low lives?!

  201. May be you have bad intentions with good language !

  202. I read it and in Arabic (which i understand).

    your holiest lady is Jewish-christian. how Funny, couldn't you find a Muslimah who gets to be the holiest in Quaran?

    just because there's a chapter dedicated to Mary doesn't take away chapters of discrimination against women. There's no need to repeat How Quran an Mo make women a second class citizens because it's crystal clear how and this subject been discussed million times already.

    I took time to read and understand Quaran in the holy language Arabic, did you take time to read and understand the bible in any language at all?

  203. El Padrino,Our beloved prophet was the greatest man that passed on.He practised what he preached.You are asking whether he followed the golden rule.He always followed what was right and as instructed by God, merehumans may not understand the high stature he achieved in his life.People like you are just bones covered by flesh cannot think straight,like playing beethoven before a donkey.All the best, dwell in your ignorance

  204. my replies are not showing and i'm not using bad language :s

  205. I finished reading and understanding everything you stated. on top of that i read the Quaran.

    All that and had time to finish my Masters degree on a scholarship, started working, bought with my own money an expensive house, supported my family (mom and dad), enrolled my younger brother in university and payed his expenses. And no, i'm not working abroad but in my home country where everything is way expensive to average salaries. I'm still 25, enjoy life and do not fear death, have plenty friends, wonderful family and living in an environment filled with love and happiness.

    If that's what a confused person is capable of doing then I LOVE BEING CONFUSED.

    it's time to for you to step into reality. If i refused your Quaran and Allah, why have i been so blessed?

  206. Uzoozy

    You sound like a zakir naik cheerleader.
    Perhaps you can show us passages from the hadith where muhammad actually put the golden rule into practice.

  207. Few members on board always indicate that there is non biased intellectual discussion is on !

  208. Muhammad said women are deficient in intelligence and their testimony is worth half of man's.

    Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

    "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

  209. I have no faith in any religion. Yet, everything you mentioned is true,
    and the Bible is equally wicked.
    There isn't much you can do about hypocricy and hypocrites,
    who open one eye and shut the other.

  210. I have read it and in Arabic too. (surprise, yes i'm fluent in Arabic)

    The Verses about how Mary conceived are disgusting in the Quran and show the twisted sexual thoughts of Mohammed.

    Women are not equal to men in Quran. when 1 marries 4, that's not equality, that's adultery.

  211. In the Quran God mentioned pious men and pious women all the time.In Islam men and women are equal in status. The holiest lady in theQuran is Mary , there is an whole chapter on her.Its a great book worth talking time to read and understand.All the best

  212. Uzoozy I proved you wrong and i'm just a girl.

    aren't girls less intelligent?

  213. Uzoozy, Uzoozy, Uzoozy you ignorant narrow minded Uzoozy.

    I proved you wrong, Mohamed is an evil liar and Jesus is God, don't fall into Darkness

    Go look into your own Blood, Jesus signed you with Laminin, Google it and you'll fall into Madness

    Gaze at the skies, at far galaxies a look at black Holes, only then you'll realize your foolishness

    ———————————————————————————————————————————–

    GOOGLE the word "Laminin"
    Laminin, a protein that holds the body together, is shaped like a cross

    "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    For by him all things were created; things in heaven and on earth , visible and invisible,
    whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;
    all things were created by him and for him.
    He is before all things,
    and in him all things HOLD TOGETHER. "
    Colossians 1:15-17

    http://www.lizjohnsonbooks.com/?p=460
    you'll find there the image of cross at a black hole estimated to be 23 ± 4 million light-years (captured by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope)

  214. جناب سینا

    فعلا ترجیح می دهم وارد این بحث نشوم و در همان بحث سابق تکلیف این قانون طلایی را روشن کنم

    در ضمن این عادلانه نیست که از مقدمات بحثی که هنوز تمام نشده برای اثبات مدعای خود در بحث دیگر استفاده کنید

    در ضمن به نظر می رسد بیشتر خوانندگان سایت نیز با من در مورد قانون طلایی هم نظر هستند.

  215. Every thing comes with a operators manula. The operating manual for men is the Quran.

  216. AnsweinAbrabham,
    You are so ignorant . Muslims are people with a lot of love, thats why we have so many kids.
    Muslims are great people(except a few ). Who pray to God and have direct blessings from Him.

    Who care if you go to heaven or hell, you are just a speck of sand in the desert with an ignorant mind.

    By the time you finish understanding the Torah, old and new testements , gospels and all the 70 volumes of the bible you will turn out to be the most confused person in the world.
    Best of luck

  217. 80 pct. today but what about yesterday, the day before it, 10 years ago, hundreds of years ago….
    so according to them it'll be like 0.001% of humans ever lived will go to heaven.

    WHAT A CRUEL ALLAH!

  218. continued (explaining Numbers 31:17-18):

    1 Kings 19:11-12
    {{{{{{{{{{{The LORD said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by.”
    Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. }}}}}}}}}}}}}}

    God came in a GENTLE WHISPER proving that he is love and all the violence done in his name came from men not him and that’s what he’s trying to teach his prophets and people —> the LORD did not command Moses to kill but Moses killed anyway.

    The pedophilic Biblical verses, the killing, the slaves, wars, conquest, hate, homosexuality… all in the Old Testament.

    In the Old Testament, the Jews refer to the sick as being punished by god but when Jesus came he told them that GOD did not give sickness and that was not a punishment from GOD. When he came he corrected what they misunderstood from god's words

    That’s why the Old Testament is mostly a ancient Jew point of view (representing what they thought was right at the time) and full of their misunderstanding to God. All that happened whether good or bad, right or wrong, from men or from god, they all referred it to god and documented it.

    So when you read the OLD Testament you must do it while understanding the history of authors and the people back then in order to identify the word of God from the claims of men in the name of God (whether these men were prophets or not).

  219. DR SINA STUDIED THE QUR'AN AND HIS ANSWERS ARE BASED ON KNOWLEDGE WHILE YOU QUOTE THE BIBLE AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE VERSES MEAN.
    the perfect reply that uncovers your lies is found here http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/news/the-150… where WeHaveBrains replied to Muslim Jeff Evenson who had your same claims about the bible. OBVIOUSLY YOU MUSLIMS DRINK FROM THE SAME FOUNTAIN OF IGNORANCE.
    his reply:
    Math 10:34
    {{this verse is a prediction of the persecution of Christians. This has happened and still happening since dawn of Christianity. Example: a man against his father when this man becomes Christian and his father hunts him down.

    Still following? focus because it gets deeper now:

    Yes Jesus did not come to bring Peace on the earth because the only way to do this is to take our own FREE WILL and make everyone robots all programmed with one software.

    Jesus came with TRUTH. The truth doesn’t suit everyone (i.e a killer or a rapist or a liar or a con man, they don’t want truth) and since we have FREE WILL to reject truth thus there will never be Peace on the earth. Never had been and never will be because there’ll always someone who would willingly choose evil.
    Jesus only wants us to LOVE God by our own free will (not by force) and by using our heads not by blindly following without understanding his teaching. That’s why I stand by Elmore “Jesus said: if pagans refuse to hear your preaching, brush your feet off their foot mats and leave” just like god respected and maintained our free will therefore we should respect others free will too.

    See that’s how you use your head and if you go further more, After Jesus left the Pagan city that refused him (that’s when he said this verse) the only man from this city that Jesus cured from demons asked Jesus if he could follow him and Jesus said: “no stay with your people” why?

    I’ll answer that for you: Jesus respected their free will but he cared for them and never abandoned them even when they rejected him. So through the cured man that stayed in this pagan city many were able to see the TRUTH and eventually believed in Jesus.

    By the way in Islam, they believe that we are programmed by Allah —> he wrote what we do on earth —> no free will —> why would I be punished if god made me do what I did?}}

  220. Muslims have the option of repeating the behavior of Mohammed in ANY stage of his life. This includes the stage where Muslims tolerate oppression and are told to not forbid kindness to those who showed them haste. Ultimately this kind of behavior is compulsory if they live in non-majority Muslim countries. The forcing the non-believers to make way for Muslims on the streets doesn't come until much later. We begin with fake smiling first.

  221. uzoozu:

    christians and jews are not "believers"..if they were.. why can they not enter Mekka?? because quran says so.. Q9:28.. muhsin khan explains it perfectly..

    at first we a lead to believe that christians,jews and sabeans enter heaven.. (2:62,5:69)

    but there are some criterias.. as you can read in 5:72-73 and in 3:110-116

    1.reject jesus as a "son" of god
    2.reject trinity
    3.embrace mohammed as the last prophet and islamic monotheism ..

    ie. become muslims..

    ALL who reject mohammed as a prophet goes to hell.. that means 80 pct. of earths population..

  222. Even when you strictly implement Golden Rule for majority It overrule Golden Rule itself.

    FYI I have never seen any psychosomatic symptoms in A donkey so fella claim to understand anything is still under trial.

  223. WRONG, Ali Sina. — Confucius had been preaching the Golden Rule centuries ago in China.

  224. I think very few people are practicing the Golden Rule, other than some religious people who are God-fearing. Normally the strong will dominate the weak and the majority will bully the minority. In this dog-eat-dog world there are plenty of cheats, rapists, murderers, thieves and other evil doers. To kill for sake of a religion is one of the most evil acts.

  225. Ali Sena you are such an manupilator, you did not give the first 2:190 where the Holy Quran says the transgressors- to be killed. Make sure the correct perseption is given.
    This verse was for that time. If I were to cherry pick verses some of the verses in bible would read as such.First I would like to share with you a few verses from the Bible:
    “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)”
    "Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35)
    Sahih International: Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
    The Quran has the believers, Muslim, Christains and the Jews.
    All others are non believers.
    So there goes your theory in the first verse you quoted.

  226. A Source,

    No, not everyone practices the Golden Rule and even those who do may fail sometimes. We are human and humans are fallible.

    The point is that the non-Muslim world accepts the Golden Rule as ideal while the Muslim world does not even recognize it. The Quran is diametrically in contradiction to the Golden Rule. Mr. Farzad made this blatantly clear when he said anyone who according to Muslims does not contribute to the felicity of mankind, or in other words does not agree with Islam and oppose it, must be sent to the other world as soon as possible. This is sheer evil. But it is so normal to Muslims that they announce it openly with straight face and no shame.

    A donkey may understand the Golden Rule but a Muslim will have a difficult time to understand it. Yes they can parrot it and they can use it to deceive others but understanding it and practicing it? No!

  227. All the followers of Golden Rule are hypocrites in real time. It's dream but not practical. You are a dreamer as most of the writers are.

  228. What make you to feel like a bird ?! behave human !!!

  229. Do you really think rest of this world really practice Golden Rule except Muslim world?
    Let's do this bind Christianity with what Christians do politically.

  230. You have a point. In the new testament, one of the writers said that evildoers will often seem to prosper greater than the Children of the Light. one of those reasons is that they know the rules of the game better than the children of the light. It is so cool that we have laws in our country that allow us to challenge criminals of all economic status. The prosecution of political and financial crimes may be on the rise. A quote from the new testament is "therefore my children be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."

  231. I agree with Naruq. The golden rule is just the beginning. even a puppy dog understands the golden rule and sometimes does astonishing compassionate human like things. above this is volunteerism and then self sacrifice and even higher spiritual aesthetics. mix your higher spiritual aesthetics in all that you do, that is sharing the LIGHT. iN FACT, THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD SLOGAN TO SHOUT DOWN ANYONE WHO USES CULTISH BEHAVIOR AGAINST HIS NEIGHBORS. Sorry, I look at my keyboard when i type and my last sentence came out in all caps like a shout. Share the LIGHT
    .

  232. Mr. Farzad,

    In support of my point that only evolved humans can understand the Golden Rule and "any donkey" cannot, I would like to quote your own words where you said, if a person does not contribute to the felicity of mankind his passage to the other world should be hastened. The problem is that just as you see that person as an obstacle to the felicity of mankind, he sees you as an obstacle to that felicity. You however feel justified to hasten his passage to the other world but will cry victim if he does the same to you. That is why I say it is difficult for a Muslim to grasp the Golden Rule.

    One who believes the Quran cannot believe in the Golden Rule. They are diametrically opposit to each other.

  233. I agree with you totally enlightened. That is what makes Islam a significant risk.

  234. I am sorry but all of us know in reality that the most driven and aggressive people are the most successful and if you are “meek and gentle” these people will trample all over you. To compete with these people you have to be at least as ruthless as they are. This is a significant problem with the Golden rule that just cannot be swept under the carpet.

  235. Mr. Ali, please go to youtube and listen to Ajahn Brahm. Your thoughts are very similar to Buddhism.

  236. Mr.Farzad, why don't you translate your response into English

  237. The Golden Rule is just the first stepping stone. It appeals to the self for a gauge on how to treat others. Selflessness is not even yet apprehended.

    It is but a beginning.

    Sometimes, I think, what needs to be done, is to write a parallel Quran…for each verse…write how it SHOULD HAVE BEEN WRITTEN!!!

    There could be no better juxtaposition.

  238. Mr. Farzad,

    You are right. The Golden Rule has not been discovered by any particular person. It's source is human consciousness and you can find in all cultures (with exception of Nazism, fascism, communism and Islam).

    However, you are wrong in thinking that every donkey can discover it. The Golden Rule can only be understood by evolved humans. Animals and people whose morality has not evolved are unable to understand it. Donkeys are very noble animals but I don't think their nobility has anything to do with thier understanding of the Golden Rule.

  239. It is laughable that Islam should compare itself to anything moral and good such as biblical teachings. It sets no moral high standard and any good of Moslems are by nature good DESPITE the Koran which aims to pervert good consciences. No good comes from anything from that so called prophet of Satan. I still am to come across any good from the Allah which loves humanity unconditionally but no good can come from evil.

  240. جناب سینا

    قانون طلایی قانونی نیست که کسی بتواند مدعی کشف کردن آن باشد و آن را به نفع خود مصادره کند، معذرت می خواهم هر الاغی این قانون را می فهمد و درک می کند، دقت کنید

    خواجه عبدالله انصاری: “بدی را بدی کردن سگ کاری است، خوبی را خوبی کردن خرکاری است، بدی را خوبی کردن کار خواجه عبدالله انصاری است.”

    به نظر می رسد با این نوشته قصد دارید بحث گذشته را که به نقطه حساس آن رسیده است را رها کنید حداقل طبق قولی که دادید ترجمه آخرین نوشته مرا به متن اضافه کنید تا مورد قضاوت خوانندگان قرار گیرد و به گونه ای نشان دهید در مورد قانون طلایی اهل لاف زدن نیستید و در عمل نیز به آن پایبندید فکر کنم وفای به عهد نیز یکی از بندهای قانون طلایی باشد.

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