Marrying a Muslim Man
Hello 🙂
I hope you have the time to read my email.I found about you when i was googling “i dont want my kids to be muslim” and i found a christian woman that was asking for your help in a similar case like mine.
I’m a christian woman from egypt, living in egypt too . My boyfriend is an iraqi guy living in egypt and he is a muslim.we love eachother so much,we really do.i’m sure he loves me even more than i love him.we talked about marriage and i suddenly got scared :/ i dont want my children to be muslims.i know that islam spreads hate and its dangerous , i cant let my own children to grow up disrespecting my religion nd spreading hate and aggression !
i love him though and i dnt know what to do.leaving him is not the best option there :/ i wanna save him.
i’ve been thinking and i told him , when we get married if you have kids i want them to choose their own religion when they’re mature enough
he said let me be straight with you,i’ll do anything to make him grow up as muslims and you shouldnt be trying to change that !
i’m so scared , i love him but i’m scared of him sometimes :/
he is a highly educated guy and all but he believes in islam like we believe the sun has risen today !i even told him i dnt want kids after i read your answer to that woman’s problem
he said we’ll see about that.please help me , i want to save him , i dnt know what to do , and i dnt want him to feel like i want him to convert to be a christian or something so that we wont jst back off :
please let me know what you think i should do
i also wanna know can i get to read your book “understanding mohammed” i am afraid i wont find it in book stores here you know since its an islamic country they wouldnt dare to make this available to people .
P.S i volunteer to translate your articles to arabic if you’d like 🙂
Dear Dina,
My answer to you is the same I gave to Tina http://alisina.org/what-to-do-with-my-muslim-boyfriend/
Don’t marry this Muslim. If you want to be unhappy and have a miserable life, marry him.
This man does not love you. What Muslims feel is not love. Do you know of any other parent who kills their children? Not even animals do that. Muslims do it. Under the influence of Islam, Muslims become something quite different than human.
This Muslim has infatuation for you. This is hormonal not spiritual attraction. Muslim men are needy. Don’t confuse that with love. Love is the child of freedom. If he really loved you he would have respected your freedom to believe in anything you wish. Of course he could reason with you to try to persuade you that his ways are better, but he would never take away your freedom.
You are willing to not have children so they don’t suffer as Muslims. This is a big sacrifice. Of course it is also a wise thing since it would be cruel to bring to world children knowing what kind of life they will have. But why would you want to do such thing?
Furthermore, this Muslim already thinks he can control and manipulate you. He is not listening to what you say. He ignores your views when you say you don’t want to have children and you don’t want them to become Muslim. This is not love.
You girls keep writing to me hoping that I may change my mind and make an exception in your case telling you it is okay to marry your Muslim boyfriend. No it is not okay. Don’t marry him. Leave him. He does not love you. He is infatuated with you. Muslims don’t know the meaning of love. How can they love you when they don’t respect your freedom and views? Look at their families. A Muslim man can marry several wives. How can he pretend to love them? If a man loves one woman he will never think about another woman. Muslims are the only species that will happily kill their children and encourage them to be martyr. How can they love them and murder them?
Muslims are damaged. They are born like others, with the same potential for human feelings, but they lose that through Islamic indoctrination and are transformed into something very evil.
Read the history of the early Islam. Muslims murdered their own kin, brothers, mothers and fathers and proudly said, Islam has changed our hearts.
This is my advice to you. If you want to marry this man, you will do it anyway, but when the time comes that you cry alone in your room and curse yourself for marrying him and throwing away your life just like that, remember that I warned you not to do it.
Love is not permanent. Today you love someone and the next day you don’t feel anything for him or even despise him. Half of the marriages end in divorce and those that survive are mostly loveless. All these people married because they ware madly in love with each other. Compatibility is a major factor in the survival of love and marriage. You and this Muslim are not compatible.
There are so many men you can love. Why marry a Muslim? The very fact that you have written to me shows that your instincts tell you something is wrong with this relationship. Don’t see him again, not even to say goodbye. Don’t respond to his telephone calls. Send him an email and tell him you will not marry a Muslim. Tell him you decided to end it because you realized the marriage with a Muslim will bring you nothing but tragedy and pain.
If he really loves you he should read my book, which I attach. That is the minimum he can do to prove his love for you. If he reads my book he will leave Islam and then he is recovered. It does not matter if he reads the book with closed mind or just to make you happy. As long as he reads it, he will leave Islam. He may lie and not read it but tell you that he has. Muslims are liars, like their prophet. But if he reads my book and remains a Muslim he is truly an evil man. In either case you should leave him. You don’t want to marry a liar or an evil man. However, if he sees the light, which he will if he reads the book, he will be recovered. You can then love him and marry him. As long as he is a Muslim he is possessed by the devil. Shun him. You can send him the link to this page so he knows why you don’t want to have anything to do with him.
The ball is in his court. He can read my book and recover from this demonic disease and have you or he can go to hell.
If you want to translate my articles into Arabic, please do so. But they have to be at least half a dozen so I can create an Arabic chapter of the site.
//"Im not saying all muslims are good there are a minority of extremists out there but they do not represent. islam."//
For arguments sake, suppose we agree with you. We have big questions, requests, to Muslims like you.
Did you know there now exist so called "Liberal Muslims"? As opposed to "Radical Muslims". And those "radical muslims" presumably are the ones that cause the bad name in the media of Islam, don't they? (Please don't blame "Islamophobia").
So should Muslims become Liberal Muslims and join democratic governments and parties and reject the "radical Muslims" and their supposedly wrong interpretation of Islam. "Radical Muslims" are now very much waging violent and verbal war against Western governments, nations, even their democratic system. Their vicious propaganda very probably also influences your community and you right now.
So why don't truly liberal Muslims separate themselves totally from those "radicals" and irrevocably choose for the democratic system, and Western governments, however fallible, but BETTER than those "radicals" and their ideas?
I point you to the movie Honor Diaries, featuring Qanta Ahmed, a truly "liberal" Muslima. Who reject the "radical" interpretation of Islam and allies herself with democratic infidels!
And I inform you that failure of Muslims to choose "liberal Muslims, the democratic system, and the Western governments" over those "radical and their interpretation of Islam"
will vindicate Ali Sina and many or most counterjihadists who firmly believe that ALL of Islam is bad, guilty, unchangeably so. And that because of Islam's threat to freedom and Islam's bad influence and Islam's anti-democratic laws and human rights violations it best should be largely abandoned by it's followers.
Muslim1999, we now know a bit how your life started, but into what will you evolve when you live to 100 years old?
I do not want to be (only) negative about Islam, which is indeed usual on this site, and I want to say that the choice for people should not be Islam or "nothing". No, there are many religions, lifestyles, big life-choices that compete with Islam for individual and social well-being, spirituality, love, happiness, prosperity, freedom. Don't ever forget that.
Now, about Islam. You may feel great with it and love it, but you have to grapple with the question whether it is true or not. In it's entirety. What use is Islam when if it on crucial points is not true? What good is the promise of heaven then? What fear need you have about the threat of hell when you exchange Islam for some big lifechoice that is simply closer to the truth?
And remember: Searching for the truth is more important than choosing your lifelong religion for reasons of love and respect for and loyalty to your parents, community. And as you said, your parents and community should never force you to choose Islam, just because they are Muslim. However much it pains them, they MUST let you choose another religion or lifestyle if you wish to choose it.
Or maybe you don't care about the truth, finding the highest truth you can find, in a long life? Most of us do and because of that reject Islam.
But say you don't care about the truth, while you see good effects of Islam we see bad effects of Islam, or the interpretation of Islam.
If as you seem to think, the problem is with bad interpretation of Islam, we can say to you: Oh, but why is the number of MISUNDERSTANDERS of Islam so big? And for this look also to Muslim majority countries.
Doesn't this mean that, well, the Quran-Hadiths-Sira are somehow at fault? Aren't they INCOMPLETE, UNCLEAR, OBSOLETE, AMBIGUOUS? Isn't Allah failing to update Islam, a message supposedly valid until the end of days, yet burdened with the prohibition against changing or adding or subtracting ONE IOTA to it? Yet 1400 years have passed and how long will Muslims wait until judgement day finally comes?
Are you going to cling to Islam all your hopefully long life? Then I think you restrict yourself too much and you will unjustly resist important truths like some of those truthful insightful theories the finest minds have presented to mankind. Because Islam has different tenets.
Dear Ali Sina
asalaamu-alkyum may peace be with you
A real man makes his woman feel safe yes and this guy of hers shouldnt be forcing or terrorizing her, but he does not represent the face of islam, just because you see this person as a bad person you cant say all muslims or most muslim are bad. Islam is beautiful and it teaches peace and by the looks of it you have a very corrupted understanding of islam. The media really portraits islam and muslims as bad people but the truth is its the totally opposite. Im not saying all muslims are good there are a minority of extremists out there but they do not represent. islam. Anyways I think that if they both really love each other they should get married however if this person is agressive or violent then dont get married for your own sake because that is NOT the characteristics of a muslim. Also about the children teach them about the true islam & about the true christianity and let them choose. You cant force anyone to be a muslim thats wrong. As a 15 year old muslim I beleive that Jesus (peace be upon him) was revealed the injeel(gospel) however we beleive that it was for a certain nation at a certain time and also that it has been changed over time by people therefore its not completely Gods word. Neither Muhammad(pbuh) nor Jesus(pbuh) came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets, but rather to confirm and renew it. Allah(swt) (which means God) gave prophets that he sent down certain miracles that they could perfom by the power of God examples of these are when Moses(pbuh) threw the stick and it turned into a snake, when Jesus(pbuh) brought people back to life and gave sight to the blind. These were all done by the prophets through God. However down the line people who in jesus's time had seen the miracles he performed through Gods will beleived it but as they had children and theyre children had children it became word of mouth so people thought it was fairy tales and so on. So God gave Muhammed a miracle which is the Qu'ran and the Qu'ran is a mircale which will last. if you want more information on that click the link Dawah To Eminem || Eminem vs The Quran [HD]: http://youtu.be/RPnS4_kmr0w. Muslims do not believe that Isa (A.S.), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (A.S.), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (P.B.U.H.) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator. anyways i think ive already wrote enough but i hope i made abit more clear sence to you what Islam actually is and my muslim brothers and sisters if i made any mistakes please correct me. May Allah(God) guide us all to the right path ameen.
//"ISLAM NOT ONLY THE RELIGION OF PROPHET MUHAMMED[S],THERE R 140000 PROPHET IS THERE"//
Here we see an example of the incredible naivete of Muslims when it comes to belief; From Adam to Mohammed in their doctrine there are supposed to have been 140.000 prophets! Who were some kind of Ancient Muslims!
But … Hardly any evidence is offered for this. And these are stories from the middle ages and before. And Muslims are spoonfed with them and believe them. They so trust their parents, clerics.
But …. When some of the finest minds of the last few centuries come up with much better evidenced and reasoned theories and books, articles, in contradiction with Islamic teachings and sensitivities, then unhesitatingly Muslims reject those. They so distrust strangers, opponents.
But that attitude is basing believing stories and theories on MESSENGERS, assuming loved ones are trustworthy and outsiders/ opponents are untrustworthy, whereas IMO believing should be based on contents and treating all messengers with the same trust or lack of it.
And that attitude is basing believing and not believing on promises of heaven and threats of hell, whereas IMO it should be on seeking the highest truth.
By being so naive on their own stories and so rejecting the stories and theories of outsiders Muslims cause and deliver a disservice to mankind and a hindrance to it's progress IMO.
If we talk religious differences.
People who believe in Jesus are willing to die for their faith, People who believe in Mohammed are willing to kill for theirs.
Wow – that was a honest, and insightful comment, and I would imagine you have experience of this kind of abuse (FMG -honour killings etc). As a western man, i am appalled by such things – but strive to get them known to a wider audience. I suppose that the the term 'religious' used to mean a sanctity, and privilege. Now, its meaning is synonymous with the basest of human desires, fear, corruption, greed, intolerance, and sexual depravity. Islam is the latest expression of religious bloodlust, incompatible with 'modern' concepts of human rights, equality, tolerance, and compassion…Other religions have had some form of reformation- it is about time Islam had one…..
I can see that English is not your native language – but you express yourself well, and understanding is easy. Islam is a problem. If you marry a Muslim man, he may be good , but then you may have children. They will, of course, be Muslim. These children may be very influenced by fundamentalist preachers (Imams). Especially, if you are educated. They have the potential to become terrorists, And you will NOT be able to stop them.; This is the doctrine and ideology of Islam. True Muslims are FORCED by direct command from God to subdue, and conquer, non-Muslims. And concepts such as 'freedom' 'love' 'free speech' 'equality', simply do not exist in their Islamic world. Be very, very careful – you may be seeding generations of terrorist activity.
Try SAM HARRIS- The end of faith – he exposes 1. the myths of religion 2. all the so called experiences of religion can be studied, quantified, and experienced – without faith. 3. Read laurence Krauss – A universe from nothing, to understand how we came into existence – without a God, without a faith, and without Killing all people who oppose our own limited viewpoint.
@Shabeer
//BROTHER CHUCK :THESES HADITH R PROPHET SAYS DIFFERENT SITUATION OF DEALING WITH NON MUSLIM,ITS NOT JUST PROPHET IMAGINATION,EVEN HADITH TOO ABROGATED ,WHAT NON SENSE R U TALKING ABOUT //
:-). I stand by what I said. I asked for historical instances not mere lip service offerred by Muhammad.
//@ book of Military Expeditions……….FOR THE MORAL WAR AGAINST THE TERRORIST,CRIMINALS,BREAK THE BOND,ETC//
:-). Military expeditions are warfare some forced, for sure, but mostly these were dacoities commited on Meccan carvans.
//@Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 56 :: Hadith 683…………………NOT MUHAMMED[S],CHUCK DON'T BROKEN THE LIMIT OF FOOLISHNESS ,ISLAM NOT ONLY THE RELIGION OF PROPHET MUHAMMED[S],THERE R 140000 PROPHET IS THERE ,SO WHAT THE PURPOSE/TEACHING OF THIS HADITH? THE BELIEVER ATTITUDE TOWARDS NON MUSLIM LIKE THAT ,PEACE//
That is because Islam runs on borrowed concepts as far as the seeingly good preachings are concerned.
//& WHAT ABOUT Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 38 :: Hadith 512//
What about it? I have already said what the hadeeth is:
The Prophet said, "An honest treasurer who gives what he is ordered to give fully, perfectly and
willingly to the person to whom he is ordered to give, is regarded as one of the two charitable persons."
This is simply saying that a treasurer who is supposed to distribute money to others should distribute the goods honestly. How is that a proof of spreading love and peace?
//Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 13 :: Hadith 55//
This is also not about any love or peace but a description of an alleged miracle which shows what a jerk Mo was. In a drought hit area, apparently he invoked Allah to make rain and then it rained so long that the poor Bedouins, who trusted Mo, lost their houses and possessions!! Do you even read the hadeeths that you copy paste?
BROTHER CHUCK :THESES HADITH R PROPHET SAYS DIFFERENT SITUATION OF DEALING WITH NON MUSLIM,ITS NOT JUST PROPHET IMAGINATION,EVEN HADITH TOO ABROGATED ,WHAT NON SENSE R U TALKING ABOUT ?
@ book of Military Expeditions……….FOR THE MORAL WAR AGAINST THE TERRORIST,CRIMINALS,BREAK THE BOND,ETC…………………………
@FORCED CONVERSTION
Forced conversion prohibited:
2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error.
2: 272. Not upon you (Muhammad SAW) is their guidance, but Allah guides whom He wills. And whatever you spend in good, it is for yourselves, when you spend not except seeking Allah’s Countenance. And whatever you spend in good, it will be repaid to you in full, and you shall not be wronged.
4:28 “If then they turn away, We have not sent thee as a guard
over them. Thy duty is but to convey (the message).
5: 92. And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and beware (of even coming near to drinking or gambling or Al¬Ansâb, or Al¬Azlâm, etc.) and fear Allah. Then if you turn away, you should know that it is Our Messenger's duty to convey (the Message) in the clearest way.
6: 48. And We send not the Messengers but as givers of glad tidings and as warners. So whosoever believes and does righteous good deeds, upon such shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve.
6: 66. But your people (O Muhammad SAW) have denied it (the Qur'ân) though it is the truth. Say: "I am not responsible for your affairs."
67. For every news there is a fact, i.e. for everything there is an appointed term (and it is also said that for every deed there is a recompense) and you will come to know.
68. And when you (Muhammad SAW) see those who engage in a false conversation about Our Verses (of the Qur'ân) by mocking at them, stay away from them till they turn to another topic. And if Shaitân (Satan) causes you to forget, then after the remembrance sit not you in the company of those people who are the Zâlimûn
69. Those who fear Allah, keep their duty to Him and avoid evil are not responsible for them (the disbelievers) in any case, but (their duty) is to remind them, that they may avoid that (mockery at the Qur'ân).
@Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 56 :: Hadith 683…………………NOT MUHAMMED[S],CHUCK DON'T BROKEN THE LIMIT OF FOOLISHNESS ,ISLAM NOT ONLY THE RELIGION OF PROPHET MUHAMMED[S],THERE R 140000 PROPHET IS THERE ,SO WHAT THE PURPOSE/TEACHING OF THIS HADITH? THE BELIEVER ATTITUDE TOWARDS NON MUSLIM LIKE THAT ,PEACE…………………….
& WHAT ABOUT Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 38 :: Hadith 512
Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 13 :: Hadith 55
Muslim :: Book 35 : Hadith 6540 [mocking person]
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 392
Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 675
THIS THIS IS PROPHET MUHAMMAD[S]PRAY FOR HIS SOCIETY[NON MUSLIM],FOR THEIR PEACE……………..SO U HIDE THE TRUTH………………….
"for even a graveyard is very peaceful. " Nice one, Chuck!
//"The hadeeth doesn't speak of muslims or Muhammad doing any good, but talking of, most probably Jesus Christ "//
Yes, yes, possibly. Mohammed means "the praised one". and I read Robert Spencer's book; Did Mohammed exist". And Robert explained how there is such a lack of early references and evidence to and for Islam. How it could well be that "the praised one" originally was JESUS!
In short, IMO, Spencer argues that "not a religion was seeking and creating an empire, but that an empire was seeking and creating a religion!". Which explains the delay of up to 200 years (after the supposed start of Islam) of key Islamic writings. Like the Quran, many Hadeeths and the Sira Shabeer talks about. The oldest Sira by Ibn Ishaq is dated 761 AD, and it is alleging Mohammed died in 632 AD!
@shabeer the shameless,
You are yet to meet my earlier challenge of bringing 10 verses each for three human values. And here you come again.
//PROPHET 10 HISTORICAL PEACE DECLARATION EVIDENCE //
I said 10 historical instances not inconsequential preachings which looks good only when stripped off their contexts and many of which are anyway abrogated by the hateful, vengeful ones.
Let me start by repudiating your first one:
//1)Pray for kafir people /no wrong action for disbelieve:
Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 675//
Look at the chapter, it is called Al-Maghaazi, the book of Military Expeditions led by Muhammad. It tells you the kind of events collected here. Next look at the hadeeth itself:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Tufail bin 'Amr came to the Prophet and said, "The Daus (nation) have perished as they disobeyed and refused to accept Islam. So invoke Allah against them." But the Prophet said, "O Allah! Give guidance to the Daus (tribe) and bring them (to Islam)!"
The Daus had already been destroyed where is love and peace here? What is invoking Allah means here? Exterminating them completely. So invoking Allah = killing infidels. And what does Mo say? He wants them to be brought to Islam (that is under his subjugation) so he asks Allah to guide them to his authority. :-). Pretty simple to dissect. So this isn't spread of love and peace, for even a graveyard is very peaceful.
Ok one more for old time's sake.
//Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 56 :: Hadith 683//
Here is the hadeeth.
Narrated 'Abdullah:
As if I saw the Prophet talking about one of the prophets whose nation had beaten him and caused
him to bleed, while he was cleaning the blood off his face and saying, "O Allah! Forgive my nation,
for they have no knowledge."
The hadeeth doesn't speak of muslims or Muhammad doing any good, but talking of, most probably Jesus Christ:-)
And here I am catching your lies (there are many):
//Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 38 :: Hadith 512 //
This isn't related with Islam spreading love and peace AT ALL!!
Here is the hadeeth:
Narrated Abu Musa:
The Prophet said, "An honest treasurer who gives what he is ordered to give fully, perfectly and
willingly to the person to whom he is ordered to give, is regarded as one of the two charitable persons."
All this is saying is that a person who does his duty of giving others is a charitable person:-).
I can go on and on, but I think you get the picture. You can't fool believing that everybody around here is equally gullible.
9)
Does not transgress the limits even someone provocation you:
5: 87. O you who believe! Make not unlawful the Taiyibât (all that is good as regards foods, things, deeds, beliefs, persons, etc.) which Allah has made lawful to you, and transgress not. Verily, Allah does not like the transgressors.
8: 65. O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast persons amongst you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are people who do not understand.
26: 130. "And when you seize, seize you as tyrants?
50: 24. (And it will be said): "Both of you throw (Order from Allah to the two angels) into Hell, every stubborn disbeliever (in the Oneness of Allah, in His Messengers, etc.).
25. "Hinderer of good, transgressor, doubter,
65:2……… And those are the set limits of Allah. And whosoever transgresses the set limits of Allah, then indeed he has wronged himself. ………..
17:32. and come not near to the unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is a Fâhishah [i.e. anything that transgresses its limits (a great sin)], and an evil way (that leads one to Hell unless Allah forgives him).
79: 37. Then, for him who Taghâ (transgressed all bounds, in disbelief, oppression and evil deeds of disobedience to Allah).
38. And preferred the life of this world (by following his evil desires and lusts),
39. Verily, his abode will be Hell-fire;
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6263
10)
tale-bearer [making lie story against other people/person] prohibited:
4:112. And whoever earns a fault or a sin and then throws it on to someone innocent, he has indeed burdened himself with falsehood and a manifest sin.
68: 10. And obey not everyone who swears much, and is considered worthless,
11. A slanderer[lie story], going about with calumnies[tale bearing],
12. Hinderer of the good, transgressor, sinful,
13. Cruel, after all that base-born (of illegitimate birth),
60:12 O Prophet! When believing women come to you to give you the Bai'â (pledge), that they will not associate anything in worship with Allâh, that they will not steal, that they will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood (i.e. by making illegal children belonging to their husbands), and that they will not disobey you in any Ma'rûf (Islâmic Monotheism and all that which Islâm ordains) then accept their Bai'â (pledge), and ask Allâh to forgive them, Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 92
7)
Public people have no right to punish the people: even they attack them
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 173
It is narrated on the authority of Miqdad b. Aswad that he said. Messenger of Allah, you just see (here is a point): If I encountered a person amongst the infidels (in the battlefield) and he attacked me and struck me and cut off one of my hands with the sword. Then he (in order to protect himself from me) took shelter of a tree and said: I become Muslim for Allah's sake. Messenger of Allah, can I kill him after he had uttered this? The Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) said: Do not kill him. I (the narrator) said: Messenger of Allah, he cut off my hand and uttered this after amputating it; should I then kill him? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Don't kill him, for I you kill him, verily he would be in a position where you had been before killing him and verily you would be in a position where he had been before uttering (kalima).
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 93 :: Hadith 512
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 89 :: Hadith 279
Muslim :: Book 9 : Hadith 3553, 3569, 3571
People who take weapons for fight prohibited:
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 88 :: Hadith 190 ,91,92
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 43 :: Hadith 637
Don’t point a weapon towards his brother:
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6336 ,6338
8)
Kind/good /peacful behavior to non Muslim
25: 63. And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness.
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6219
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6215
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of A'mash with the same chain of transmitters (and the words are):" Don't sever relations of kinship, don't bear enmity against one another, don't bear aversion against one another and don't feel envy against the other and live as fellow-brothers as Allah has commanded you.
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6214 ,16
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Avoid suspicion[doubt, guessing], for suspicion is the gravest lie in talk and do not be inquisitive about one another and do not spy upon one another and do not feel envy with the other, and nurse no malice, and nurse no aversion and hostility against one another. And be fellow-brothers and servants of Allah.
Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4885
Narrated AbuHurayrah:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Avoid envy, for envy devours good deeds just as fire devours fuel or (he said) "grass."
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 93 :: Hadith 474
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 93 :: Hadith 473
5)
Keep the righteous peace agreement:
9: 7. How can there be a covenant with Allah and with His Messenger for the Mushrikûn (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) except those with whom you made a covenant near Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah)? So long, as they are true to you, stand you true to them. Verily, Allah loves Al-Muttaqûn (the pious – see V.2:2).
4: 114. There is no good in most of their secret talks save (in) him who orders Sadaqah (charity in Allâh's Cause), or Ma'rûf (Islâmic Monotheism and all the good and righteous deeds which Allah has ordained), or conciliation between mankind, and he who does this, seeking the good Pleasure of Allah, We shall give him a great reward.
5: 1. O you who believe! Fulfill (your) obligations……..
16: 91. And fulfill the Covenant of Allah (Bai'a: pledge for Islâm) when you have covenanted, and break not the oaths after you have confirmed them, and indeed you have appointed Allah your surety. Verily! Allah knows what you do.
16: 92. And be not like her who undoes the thread which she has spun after it has become strong, by taking your oaths a means of deception among yourselves, lest a nation may be more numerous than another nation. Allâh only tests you by this [i.e who obeys Allâh and fulfills Allâh's Covenant and who disobeys Allâh and breaks Allâh's Covenant]………
16: 94. And make not your oaths, a means of deception among yourselves,…………………….
95. And purchase not a small gain at the cost of Allâh's Covenant. Verily! What is with
Allâh is better for you if you did but know.
16: 91. And fulfill the Covenant of Allâh (Bai'a: pledge for Islâm) when you have covenanted, and break not the oaths after you have confirmed them, and indeed you have appointed Allâh your surety. Verily! Allâh knows what you do.
Prophet makes peace between the people:
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 49 :: Hadith 856,887,858 ,863
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6255
6)
Keep forgiveness/patient
41: 34. The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel (the evil) with one which is better (i.e. Allâh ordered the faithful believers to be patient at the time of anger, and to excuse those who treat them badly), then verily! he, between whom and you there was enmity, (will become) as though he was a close friend.
42: 37. And those who avoid the greater sins, and Al-Fawâhish (illegal sexual intercourse, etc.), and when they are angry, they forgive
42: 40. The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allâh. Verily, He likes not the Zâlimûn (oppressors, polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.).
45: 14. Say (O Muhammad SAW) to the believers to forgive those who (harm them and) hope not for the Days of Allâh (i.e. His Recompense), that He may recompense people according to what they have earned (i.e. to punish these disbelievers, who harm the believers).
3: 134. Those who spend [in Allâh's Cause – deeds of charity, alms, etc.] in prosperity and in adversity, who repress anger, and who pardon men; verily, Allâh loves Al-Muhsinûn (the good doers).
3: 120. If a good befalls you, it grieves them, but if some evil overtakes you, they rejoice at it. But if you remain patient and become Al-Muttaqûn not the least harm will their cunning do to you. Surely, Allah surrounds all that they do.
50: 39. So bear with patience (O Muhammad SAW) all that they say, and glorify the Praises of your Lord, before the rising of the sun and before (its) setting (i.e. the Fajr, Zuhr, and 'Asr prayers) .
3: 186. You shall certainly be tried and tested in your wealth and properties and in your personal selves, and you shall certainly hear much that will grieve you from those who received the Scripture before you (Jews and Christians) and from those who ascribe partners to Allah, but if you persevere patiently, and become Al-Muttaqûn then verily, that will be a determining factor in all affairs, and that is from the great matters.
EXTRA 10:
1)
Prophet tries to stops killing innocent people:
Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4399
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. Muti' who heard from his father and said: I heard the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) say on the day of the Conquest of Mecca: No Quraishite will be killed hound hand and foot from this day until the Day of judgment.
3:21. Verily! Those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, announce to them a painful torment.
17:33. and do not kill anyone which Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause. And whoever is killed (intentionally with hostility and oppression and not by mistake), We have given his heir the authority [(to demand Qisâs, Law of Equality in punishment or to forgive, or to take Diya (blood money)]. But let him not exceed limits in the matter of taking life (i.e he should not kill except the killer only). Verily, he is helped (by the Islamic law).
2)
Money utilization for immoral/illegal/unjust activities prohibited:
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 53 :: Hadith 347
Narrated Khaula Al-Ansariya:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "Some people spend Allah's Wealth (i.e. Muslim's wealth) in an unjust manner; such people will be put in the (Hell) Fire on the Day of Resurrection."
3)
Women/children/OLD MAN/WEAK killing prohibited:
Bukhari 4.52.256
[killing girl prohibit]
Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.10
Do not kill women or children or an aged, weak person,Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees.Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty,
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 257,58
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.
Killing old man prohibited:
Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2608
Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.10
Do not kill women or children or an aged, weak person, Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty.
4)
Spreading hate/grudge between people prohibited:
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6219
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Don't nurse grudge and don't bid him out for raising the price and don't nurse aversion or enmity and don't enter into a transaction when the others have entered into that transaction and be as fellow-brothers and servants of Allah. A Muslim is the brother of a Muslim. He neither oppresses him nor humiliates him nor looks down upon him. The piety is here, (and while saying so) he pointed towards his chest thrice. It is a serious evil for a Muslim that he should look down upon his brother Muslim. All things of a Muslim are inviolable for his brother in faith: his blood, his wealth and his honors.
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6217
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of A'mash with the same chain of transmit ters (and the words are):" Don't sever relations of kinship, don't bear enmity against one another, don't bear aversion against one another and don't feel envy against the other and live as fellow-brothers as Allah has commanded you.
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6208
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Don't bear aversion against one another and don't be jealous of one another and be servants of Allah.
PROPHET 10 HISTORICAL PEACE DECLARATION EVIDENCE
1)Pray for kafir people /no wrong action for disbelieve:
Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 675
2)Prophet pray for his society even they hurt him:
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 56 :: Hadith 683
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 38 :: Hadith 512
Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 13 :: Hadith 55
Muslim :: Book 35 : Hadith 6540 [mocking person]
Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 392
Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 675
Prophet praying for pagans:
Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 442
3)
Be gentle and calm towards Jew:
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 75 :: Hadith 410 , 404
Muslim :: Book 26 : Hadith 5384,5386, 5387, 5388
Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 2097
Again Abu Zubair heard Jabir say that the Holy Prophet (May peace be upon him) and his Companions kept standing for a bier of a Jew until it disappeared from sight.
4)Prophet did justice it brings from Jew:
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 432
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 82 :: Hadith 794
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 41 :: Hadith 599
5)Without proof no punishment, even against Jew: prophet give blood money
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 36
Muslim :: Book 16 : Hadith 4119
Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 53 :: Hadith 398
6)Prophet peace attitude towards them[qurash]
Muslim :: Book 31 : Hadith 6111,6112, 6113,6115, 6116,6117, 6118,6132
Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 49 :: Hadith 855, 857, 858
Muslim :: Book 31 : Hadith 6145
7)
Prophet allow Apostate to live
Muslim :: Book 20 : Hadith 4593
Muslim :: Book 20 : Hadith 4593
It has been narrated by Salama b. al-Akwa' that he visited al-Hajjaj who said to him: O son of al-Akwa', you have turned apostate and have come to live again in the desert with the Bedouins (after your migration). He said: No, but the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has permitted me to live in the desert.
Prophet pray for apostate
9: 80. Whether you (O Muhammad SAW) ask forgiveness for them (hypocrites) or ask not forgiveness for them … (and even) if you ask seventy times for their forgiveness … Allâh will not forgive them, because they have disbelieved in Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW). And Allâh guides not those people who are Fâsiqûn (rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).
Malik :: Book 36 : Hadith 36.18.15
8)
prophet against people killing each other
Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 3 :: Hadith 122
Narrated Jarir:
The Prophet said to me during Hajjat-al-Wida': Let the people keep quiet and listen. Then he said (addressing the people), "Do not (become infidels) revert to disbelief after me by striking the necks (cutting the throats) of one another (killing each other)."
Don’t hate each other
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 80 :: Hadith 717
Don’t desert (cut your relations with) one another
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 80 :: Hadith 717
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6207,6222,6223,6224
9)
Not to accuse an innocent person
Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 2 :: Hadith 17
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 71, 73, 126
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 78 :: Hadith 647
10)
Love each other /present each other / Shake hands each other
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 74 :: Hadith 279
Malik :: Book 47 : Hadith 47.4.16, 47.4.17,47.4.17
Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6225
Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 5193 , 92,
@Abdalla,
//Islam spreads love and peace//
Ok. Please produce 10 historical instances where Islam could be seen spreading love and peace without any ulterior motives involved.
"anybody who is blessed with the opportunity to be a Muslim should be grateful. "
And what about anybody who is born NOT A MUSLIM and who has to deal with Muslims when they constitute the majority?
I suspect you mean that Islam only spreads love and peace AMONG MUSLIMS. That would be showing how Islamcentric, egoistic Muslims are. and even that would not be true, you just have to look at the Muslims world.
Your very attitude to criticism is a response of saying "everybody is sick and in need to see a doctor". That right there shows us that you are intolerant of opposite views, which you demonize,
and that you are totally different from a loving and peaceful person. with you kuffars can't reason, so with you they either submit completely of fight for their freedom. and many here choose the latter course!
Why don't you convince the Chriatians, Shiites, Ahmedis etc of Pakistan, Indonesia, et al that 'islam spreads love and peace'?
what a such self proclaim without any supporting evidence at all :))
LOL Everybody on this blog is sick and need to see a doctor. Islam spreads love and peace and anybody who is blessed with the opportunity to be a Muslim should be grateful.
Dina ,,,you left him……..But you left him for nothing…If you say you left him for christainity ……Then God will punish you…beacause you dont want to devote your self for christainity ….Are you going to church….Are you reading bible daily….Do you want to be a Nun and wear like a Nun which is a muslim dress..Can u devote your self to christainity…if Not…then you lost your love and you religion.
Hello Dina …life has no chance ….stay with whom you love ..If you lose you loved one you cannot find like him again..what is that life that you stay with a person whom you dont love…Love means care not only guy whom you love should care about you but YoU should also care about him…Dont be afraid of Islam …Learn about it…That is just a religion…If you leave some one because of his religion it means you DonT love him…To your fears about Islam …Why should you think that you should convert your childern to christainity…Are you a nun..Are you deeply religious person…Do you read bible daily..On the other hand,
Muslim people are deeply religious..The pray five times daily..They are more connected to their religion than christian do…So if he says he want to convert them to islam i think he is right..
I dont think Muslim are cruel…There are cruel and kind people every where in every country and every religion..It is not Islam that makes you cruel its a person,s nature and psychology that makes him cruel..For what i think to solve this problem u U convert into Islam.They all will be happy with you…Then will there be a problem for U.?. If that is a problem for you to convert ,then why you want to convert your childern to christainity in a muslim country..You said you live in egypt..
Or you first convert to Christainity, read the bible daily and go to chruch ,wear like the real christain The NuN…then talk about converting your childern to christainity.let me figure out some thing ,Christainity is following Islam,,see the Nun,s. wearing like muslims…So a real christian is following Islam…The Nun..
Do you thing you love christainity more than a Nun..Infact not,,They devote their life for Christainity..Can you do that? Then forget about converting your childern to christainity..Be have to convert your childern to Islam..Because Jesus is also a part of Muslim faith…Do you know if a muslim donot believe in Jesus he is not a muslim..So i say again learn about Islam…
The people here whom said to you breakup with your boyfriend simple dont care about you..May be they dont have a lover..They dont know what love is,,may be they are loser (lost their love) so they want you also be a loser like them..
You know your boyfriend better than anyone also…Why other should tell you to leave him..Do they know your boyfriend better than you?
I think leaving your love for religion is stupid,,, and leaving your love for people ,who tell you to leave him whom dont know him..is super stupid..
But any way if you leave him then go to church and devote your self for christainity be a Nun…because you leave him for christainity…
this is the most dispectful thing i have ever seen how are u to tell her not to marry a muslim do you know anything About being a muslim Girl its amazing U feel Great about urself Because u are walking in allah'a way If ur Husband Is To much into Islamic things thats An amazing thing that every muslim would want Do you know That this life is going to end one day and when we die Than ur not going to be thinking about thse things Than ur gonna realize when ur husband goes to Heaven and U WONT BE and so wont ur kids BECAUSE OF what u did didnt let ur husband make them muslim Religion BEING A MUSLIM IS NOT BEING A TERRORIST JUST BECAUSE WHAT CHRISTIAN JEWS AND OTHER RELIGIONS DO AND BLAME IT ON muslims DOESNT MEAN ITS REALLY MUSLIMS!!!! i hate how u disrectpect islam when Muslims RESPECT OTHER RELIGIONS WHY CANT YOU TO THIS IS NOT RIGHT MUSLIM Mans are amazing. they are afraid of allah they wont ever hurt u
oh now i call you fool dina EVEN christian are evil i have seen….if you know evrything about him and his religion.why are you still with him.just leave him and go away…you are being evil in this forum .
may be he is gud person in fact.. bcoz even there are good muslim .. if you think love is not everything just leave him instead judging him as wrong person…
Please don't marry this Muslim man. I'm in your situation. I married a Pakistani Muslim man. I'm Christian from India . Now we both living in USA. Please please please don't marry any Muslim. They "talk" nice n"to make you believe" that they really @love" you.
To a Muslim – marring to a non Muslim is a reward from god. Tht is how they consider. I was stupid and v young and fell into his "love trap".
Btw we both know now that it's hard to live together, so we are thinking to separate. Thank God.
N he got his green card from me. Or he "used" me.
So again please leave this relationship.
Sister, I wish you well in your beliefs.
But lets deal in facts, not fiction. The truth may be unpalateable, but we need to deal with it.
"Rodwell’s English translation of the Koran counts 6,151 verses in its 114 chapters. Throughout, Mohammed hurls 783 threats of hellfire, wrath, eternal judgment and perdition against the by then well-singed mind of any reader who keeps reading to the end of the Koran."
That is 1 threat of hell in every 7.9 verses! (Source – Secrets of the Koran -Don Richardson)
Muslim men see women as the problem, when it comes to abuse towards women They seem completely unable to control their instincts. And this attitude is largely uncontested in Islamic courts, since Mohammed himself both performed rape, and said rape was OK. So what happens? The raped woman frequently gets accused of adultery, and the proscribed punishment is death by stoning.
"During a major upheaval in Indonesia in the late 1990s, sex-crazed Muslim men gang-raped dozens of Chinese women in shops, homes and even in the streets, shouting in Arabic, “Allahu Akbar!” (God is great!)" (Secrets of the Koran – Don Richardson)
"In fact, there are at least 109 identifiable war verses in the Koran. One out of every 55 verses in the Koran is a war verse. War verses are scattered throughout Mohammed’s chapters like blood splatter at a crime scene. I will demonstrate from Mohammed’s own words that he leaves readers in no doubt—he obviously intended his war verses to arouse Muslims to compel the conversion of non-Muslims to Islam, even by violence if necessary. Failing their conversion, Mohammed ordained that non-Muslims be killed, enslaved or—provided Islam is in full political control—heavily taxed for the advancement of Islam in perpetuity! " (Secrets of the Koran – Don Richardson)
So, against all this concrete evidence – some from the words of the Prophet himself , you claim what, that Islam is peaceful?
Dear Sister,
How can we maintain peace? while this book teach about robbery, killing and hatred. I think you are like a ostrich.
God help you all.
Islam teaches peace.
Whatever you guys think is Islam is clearly what FOX news is teaching you.
Educate yourselves before you try to convince this woman and meddle in her life.
Peace be upon all the prophets of God, and God guides whom he wills.
-A sister of Islam.
@ Anonymous R.N.
Do Muslim men married to Christian women leave their faith to accept Christ? It does happen, but you will have a better chance of winning the lottery. Why take such a risk? I helped a couple recently to restore their marriage. They were about to divorce. He was abusive and beat her. At the same time he was unemployed living off her. She wrote to me and I told her get out of this marriage, but I also offered to council the man. She said it is useless and that she has made her mind. To my surprise he wrote to me. He was devastated as she had kicked him out of her house and he had no where to stay. He was literally in the street. I wrote a very stern but compassionate email to him explaining he has been acting like a monster with her because of his culture that is shaped by Islamic misogyny. I said their marriage has no future because of the cultural gap. They have to either go their way or one of them accept the others religion. I know that she does not want to become a Muslim and be abused by her husband as Muhammad has instructed his followers, So his only chance is that he join her religion. A couple of days later they met in the street and he accepted Jesus as his savior in the street. She told me how emotional was everything. He then went to another city for work.
She promised that they will write their testimony and will jointly try to help other couples in their situation. I am waiting to read his testimony. He realized he is a victim of Islam and all the abuses that he did to her was conditioned by his culture.
Their story is heartening but it is rare. God was good to the man for He had taken everything from him leaving him completely helpless. He had no choice but to turn to God and ask Him to accept him. But miracles like this don’t happen often. Generally the woman gets abused and trashed. So my advice to you is the same that I give to every other woman. Leave this man soon and tell him to call me. If there is goodness in them I will rescue them and save your relationship. If the marriage is not blessed by God it will not succeed.
Hello,
I got interested in reading all of your comments because I was involved with a Muslim boyfriend while I am a devoted Catholic. I have the following facts about Muslim guys, which I have experienced too:
1. They are possessive. He told me that once we get married I will be his. Pretty creepy right? Love should be unselfish. And he even told me not to talk to guys and not to talk about my ex.
2. He really don't listen to me. He has a locked up mind. He won't listen to your reasons and say "Don't ever talk about this topic again."
3. They are liars. I hate liars. Since we are not yet married, he may "sweet talk" me to do what he want. And girls can be pretty insane sometimes, especially if love rules their mind.
4. They love their religion a lot. We discussed our faiths like it created a very long conversation. You can reason with him but it's kinda impossible to convert him, totally. He had grown up with that religion so it's like taking his life away from him. But I have this question, are there Muslim guys married to Christians, ever converted and loved the new faith?
Well, I am thankful I had read the articles, though. It's really a hard decision to leave guys whom you love but God should be above all. You can find another man, but God is the only one. That's all I can say. And oh, I am planning to leave. I really thank God that I have read the above articles and searched for it.
God bless guys!
Wow I've never seen so many people hating Islam and muslims all together..
I'm a muslima and very happy with my religion. And if you guys really knew my religion you would know that I believe in every Prophet from Abraham, Ismael, Jacob, Moses, Jesus till Mohammed. I believe in the Talmud, Zabour, Bible, Quran and every book God has send to us mankind. Yes I love Jesus as much as you do and I was raised with all the love I could ever ask for and even more. My parents raised me to be an independent women, with education, job, driving a car, choosing my own husband etc. It's in the human nature to depict other people as crazy or brainwashed, Egyptians where against jews in that matter and the romans treated christians the same way you guys are treating muslims…including me in this case which I find very disturbing and sad. How can people generalize and categorize everyone in this way. Let me tell you something you western woman.. the way you choose your boyfriend is totally different from the way I choose my HUSBAND… because the truth is you don't know your worth as a human being firstly and second as a women with all her glory and self-respect. You melt in sweet talk, appearance, material things and social recognition. I would be a hypocrite if I would generalize as you did with me, so I won't. There are millions of good christen girl I love and appreciate. But western guys break your hearts as much as those crap so-called muslims guys. He made you show your boobs and butts to get appreciated, while the muslim guy tries to cover you. But your western world disappoints me as much as my Eastern world. They confuse culture with religion and in the end they don't know what they believe, and instead believe everything saudi-payed-shaikhs in the mosques say. Killing each other and everyday they invent a new enemy instead of just facing economical, educational, social, psychological issues. It's a very disturbing situation but you can not blame a whole religion for something done by people of an area that is not as blessed with health and wealth as yours. And when they come to your country and bring this attitude with them… don't blame them just don't get involved with them. You meet involved with them because they go to place they are not suppose to be according to our laws, just as bars and clubs. You meet those kind that are not considered good muslims. When they marry and suddenly want to get religious they don't know how and push you dummies into something your not made to be, the form of a devoted muslim women. It's like you force me to be a christian or an atheist which… yes I've been there! And I didn't like it either, until I found my (moderate and faithfull) kind, I felt so deliberated from all the hate and discrimination, and all that look-good and get-a-boyfriend and get-dronk/high and disco's and everything that wasn't me. I just want to love God, respect and care for my parents as they did for me when I was a child, and to give my husband all the devotion and love and much as I want to get from him. That's why a good men studies, works hard and then when he is ready asks his mother to find I good muslim girl he could trust to be devoted to. He did not find here on street.. no offense. But those guys.. they go for the mysterious things. Btw if your involved with some guy with a long ugly beard, and a long with dress just over the knees, sportshoes and long socks…. just avoid those and report them to the police period. Those are killing machines and want to kill even all other muslims who are not like them. My Prophet didn't teach us like this, he is just even toward his enemy just and objective. You don't believe me do yah haha well anyways, you live your lives I live mine just the way I want to.. Btw I do know love, but I treat it more delicate as I treat myself very delicate no one gets to see my love unless he is ready to. Besides my love for Allah is greater than a love for a man, for he knows what's best for me more than I do, so I follow Him and not man. If a man cares he chooses the correct door which is my parents, and if they like or dislike him they tell me and then I decide keeping in mind they know me best and want the best for me. I don't think any sane parent would just give their precious child away to someone who doesn't know the worth and value of this person. Please before you convert into anything…. read a lot, I've known women who get more religious (and divorce) than the men who converted them in the first place. But that goes for everyone from to any religion to any religion, cause religion is not a game… it's a way of life, it's a paradigm, it's a moral standard.
Peace be upon you guys, I hope you could get ride of those who call themselves "muslims" (they don't deserve it), and you don't deserve those kind of treatments.
I hope you decided not to marry him. Many years ago, I was married to a Muslim man; he and his Muslim friends are exactly (EXACTLY) as Ali Sina described. I knew in my gut that I wanted to leave the marriage right away but felt so confused because despite everything I felt unconditional love for this man.
I contacted Ali Sina, and my story even appeared in Ibn Warraq book…This was over ten years ago, but it feels like a lifetime. In 2007, I finally broke free after a long, drawn out ordeal. I am forever changed by this experience and feel like a modern-day Cassandra in a Western culture that values "freedom of religion" and welcomes these people with open arms. How do I tell them that they are never capable of assimilation into a free society if they truly remain Muslim?
I agreed with Ali. It seems like u guys are not ready for a marriage. Im a muslim girl and practice freedom. Igdet the same equal rights as the men. I mixed with non muslim and i respect them very much. You already have a misconcept that islam instal hate yet u still hv a thought of marrying him? i dont think your relationship will work then. If u want the opposite..try to learn about the true islam and then make your decision. U need a light here..and its knowlegde.
i am muslim and i love my relagion,which teach me to respect every one wife , sister , muther , kids
i live in muslim country and we not use women as goods . women has thier rights and every thing.
wife for muslim man is life family love future .we never deal with woman as slave .
i won say my way is right and you way is wrong , but it's belives every one will think he is right .
Dina , if you leave this guy he will be so happy in his life and you too. marry some one from your religion and culture . very easy so lpease don't talk about Muhamed or Islam because you don't know who is Muhemed and to avoid to hurt Muslims feeling .
Make you boyfrieand happy and leave him , cos he is no love , but fact of the life will damage his life.
sister,
I AM AMUSED TO SEE LIES BY CHRISTIAN!!
I ASKED ALL BIG FAT CHRITIAN LIARS
where did jesusu says he died for ur sins
is paul who just imagined, and ur blv imgination of a man
IF I NT FORGET
CHRISTIAN ARE THE ONE SAYS WOMAN ARE nt even humangosple 3 verse 16!!
as late as 1875 priest held conference
ARE WOMAN HUMAN OR SLAVES OFMEN CREATED FOR AMUSEMENT
read ur history chritian liars
Nichole,
Love is about trust, truth and respect.. If a man calls himself muslim then how can he love you if he cannot respect you as an equal.. muslims believe a woman is half the capacity of a man.. Is that you? seriously
I have met a guy on facebook and he told me today he is muslim. I did not know for a long time and its not a problem except he will not speak to me on the phone. we have been talking for months and he tells me he loves me so much but then he tells me he has pride and recommends that I don't speak to guys and I need to come to Northern Cyprus on a certain date only and he mentioned marrying me but I am afraid because I have a passport but wonder if I'll return??? My friend is from turkey and he is muslim and now lives in the USA, He said for me not to go there because it is not what we think,. He said the violence on woman and their rights are taken. and if you marry and have children with a muslim you have less chances returning to the USA if your husband decides to stay. I just rented the movie (NOT WITHOUT MY DAUGHTER) watch it before you even think to marry him. they love you till they get you in their country. good luck!!
"Judging by his first email I did not think Qadri is important until I searched his name. Anyway, the emails I received came from Qadri's email address and during the debates, when I introduced him as Maulana Aj,mal Qadri he never objected."
See how he attempts to divert attention and focus from Qadri to me.
Like I point out – he could NOT answer against the actual suspicions. . .
– – –
"And why are you so obsessed with Qadri? "
This is about you . . . .messing about will get you no where. Even you know Qadri never emailed you.
“The same way he could NOT dispel the well founded suspicions that Ajmal Qadri has not been sending him any emails.
He probably has never heard of Sina. ”
And why are you so obsessed with Qadri? Is he some big shot? I can see his followers adulating him. The followers of Khomeni also adulated him, but he was a very ignorant man. Judging by his first email I did not think Qadri is important until I searched his name. Anyway, the emails I received came from Qadri’s email address and during the debates, when I introduced him as Maulana Aj,mal Qadri he never objected. But you must feel embarrassed for his performance.
Sure . . . but notice folks – Sina could NOT defend the claims . . . more research on the way.
The same way he could NOT dispel the well founded suspicions that Ajmal Qadri has not been sending him any emails.
He probably has never heard of Sina.
– – –
"Here is one suggestion. Take daily showers and make sure your socks and underwear are fresh and clean. It helps for the fishy smell to go away. "
No fish I have come across has ever smelled like dirty underwear and socks . . . I wonder what Sina has been up to. I mean he is spending all his money . .. to keep these 3 sites up!
“I smell something fishy! ”
Here is one suggestion. Take daily showers and make sure your socks and underwear are fresh and clean. It helps for the fishy smell to go away.
"Muslims have very little understanding of love in general. It is not that they don't have love at all. After all they are born as humans. But this sentiment in them is under developed, much like their intelligence, ethics, morality and any other attribute that makes us human. When Muslims follow a psychopath like Muhammad all their human faculties become impaired.
"
This is disgusting hate and nothing more . . . it is logically fallacious argument ot forward.
Hence why Sina is lurking in such doldrums and regularly getting hammered.
Look at the way he sings praises of his book . . . yet he has trouble selling even 1000 copies.
His claim that he does NOT hate Muslims – is so obviously not true and a lie.
Hence not even his supporters venture to his depths of hate.
This is really really interesting . . . ,many alleged emails to Sina – seem to have the same writing style!
Compare this with emails from Mualana Ajmal, Shakila etc.
I smell something fishy!
She is a White woman living in UK. These Muslims bastards who have enslaved her are in big sh!t if she gets out and goes to the police. The savages can’t do much in UK yet. Stories like her’s should come out so other innocent girls don’t fall into the trap.
Get out of this trap? How if she's being watched all the time? She's in deep trouble. If she tries to escape they may hunt her down and only God knows what may happen. She must pretend to be very happy and submissive so that they may loosen their surveillance and she may have a chance to escape. She may ask her parents for help, but she better run to far away and make sure that nobody knows her whereabouts. And if she believes in God, pray to help you out of the terrible mess you're in.
You seems fighting with some image of Muslim man conceived by you only lol
If you think only romance is love you are just a stupid. Love is much wider thing for your narrow head. It's not just psychological need as your mind thinks
And you will see more non-Muslim girls falling for Muslim men. And your duty is to make their subject as your object to frame Muslims ! lol
Oh please! Marriage and love are two different things. Yes in Islam only a man and a woman who are married can copulate. But that does not mean love. Love between man and woman is exclusive. You are talking about the legalities that a woman should consent to polygamy. Of course there is not such thing. A man does not need any consent from his existing wife to marry another one. Even if it were with consent, it is still an indication that the guy has very rudimentary idea about love. Muslims have very little understanding of love in general. It is not that they don’t have love at all. After all they are born as humans. But this sentiment in them is under developed, much like their intelligence, ethics, morality and any other attribute that makes us human. When Muslims follow a psychopath like Muhammad all their human faculties become impaired.
But who told you this Muslims are incapable of loving anyone ?
Muslims don't have sex without love.
Do Englishmen have sex without love? You mean they do coz they are animals. They sleep with plenty in their life time without any rule coz they are animals.
Religion is not meant for anyone for personal but meant for all with different conditions.
Polygamy in Islam is a matter of mutual consent. No one can force a woman to marry a married man. Besides, the wife has the right to stipulate that her husband must not marry any other woman as a second wife. (source)
I think you have proven my point. You still don’t know love and sex are two very different things. Sex is biological. All animals do it. Female spiders, praying mantis, and scorpions actually eat their male partner after sex. You can’t say they know anything about love. Many animals also mate but don’t feel love for each other. Muslim men beat their wives as instructed by their holy book. They can even kill them for their “honor.” I don’t think a man can love a woman and beat her too. Muslims also beat their children. They just don’t have a clear understanding of love. They have some feelings, after all they are born humans, even though that humanity is gradually lost. But their love is not an evolved form of love. I am talking about the real Muslims not anyone who claims to be a Muslim and has no clue what Muhammad said and did.
Love between a man and a woman is exclusive and transcend sex. A Muslim man who has multiple wives cannot possibly feel love for any of them. Unless a woman is psychologically impaired no woman likes to see her husband being amorous to another woman. All normal women feel humiliated. A man who loves a woman will not abuse her emotionally in this way and will not need another woman. Men with multiple wives do not have a clue what love is. I know what love is. When I love a woman all other women become sexless for me. They become just people. When a man starts thinking of other women, it is clear indication that his love for his existing wife is gone. So don’t tell me Muslims know what love is because they don’t and you proved my point by confusing love with sex. A man can become aroused by any woman but he cannot love multiple women.
Marriage is absolute consent between both in Islam. If you are not compatible with your social life better you take divorce.
Funny liners
"This sick man, like most Muslims, is incapable of loving anyone. "
How do Muslims have so much children without love?
"You have married with a very imperfect human being. "
Who is this guy anyone known?
"You should go to college at this age, enjoy your life and live your youth. "
The man girl marry should be at least at number 12 whom with she slept.
" Don’t sleep with him another night. "
Prevent marital rape.
You have an option. Leave this bugger as soon as you can. Love must be mutual. He does not love you. This sick man, like most Muslims, is incapable of loving anyone. He is stalking you. He wants to own you. You are his property and just as he loves his car, his shoes and other belongings he also loves you in the same way. A man who loves you as a person does not treat you in this way. He will respect you and respect your freedom. This animal is your jailer not your husband.
You are on anti-depressant already and this is your honeymoon. Wait until you have a child and you’ll see how he will treat you then.
Get out of this “marriage” today and go back to your parents. Get your divorce immediately. You have married with a very imperfect human being. What is wrong with you dear? Where is your head? First of all why did you have to marry so young? You should go to college at this age, enjoy your life and live your youth. You should not even think about marriage at this age, until you are in your late twenties.
Get out of this slavery now. I mean today. Don’t sleep with him another night. There is no solution to it. You get tormented and abused and God forbid if you have a child with this freak you can kiss goodbye your future.
Things are not going to get better. They will get worse and you may even attempt suicide as many hapless women in your situation do. Get out of this trap today. This is not marriage, don’t fool yourself.
Hi I hope you can help, I am an 18 english girl, I fell inlove with an arabic man who is 19 for me to stay with him I had to convert and get married, I have to wear a hijab, and don't see anyone apart from him, I'm in the house all day and mainly in one room because we live with his parents, I leave the house once every 2-3weeks and that is only for an hour, I have been put on anti depressents because of it. I do love him but I hate the life style and icant change it! I don't know what to day I have been with him for a year and married for only 1month.. I'm falling apart and not me anymore I'm just 'exsisiting' not living. Help?
I know who YOU think you are EVIL,BACKWARD AND BRAINWASHED MUSLIM "Muslim".
You think you belong to "THE BEST OF CREATION", according to your EVIL QURAN. The NAZI'S THOUGHT THE SAME OF THEMSELVES !
How dare you come here with such stupid reaction….MORON.
to who wrote this subject who do u think your self u are ??
nonsense is god allah being pimp of perpetual virgins in his eternal brothel
Knowledge is a powerful tool if used correctly. I read and I don't like people forcing there way of life on me. If someone starts placing barriers based on religion or way of belief, then they don't understand or truly appreciate you. Don't listen to hate speach. I know people have had bad experiences but not everyone is rubbish. Its not the religion in Islam that makes the people you meet decent. Its the culture. Religion plays a significant role but its not the primary reason. When you start denying someone the same opportunities because of there faith, then you are delete. Very easy called Band Aid Solution. If they appreciate you they will accept you, if they cannot, due to cultural, religious, social and family presssures then forget about it. Its too much cancer, remain friends and that's it.
You have to be truly adherent not pressured directly or indirectly by people saying by accepting Islam you'll be happy in marriage. Well that's a big no in my world. You learn to read about his religion on your own free will. If you decide to convert that's your choice alone, no one is there to doctrinate you on your chosen pathways. I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, not just simply on belief or faith alone, cause I studied and compared historical Jesus compared to what Islam teaches about Jesus, to gain knowledge. Not just plain blind faith alone. I found the Islamic conception or view of Jesus is not correct, from my point of view. Look we are all human beings and we make this world how we want it. I just dont like hearing Muslims or Christians alike dictating their faiths, placing indirect or direct pressure to conform. Listen but make your own decision.
Don't you love the fanatics from both camps. I am a Lebanese Maronite Catholic. I have multiple friends from both Shia and Sunni sects of Islam. Yes there are some who are indoctrinated with there belief. But @ the end when you love someone you should accept them as they are period. Their is no understand his religion or he understand yours. The minute you start with that carry on then it means you've persisted with this relationship for the wrong purpose. Thats why you cannot leave, cause you persisted in the hope he will conform. Just respect his wishes, if your culture-religion clash is causing the divide then end it. Your both @ fault for continuing a lost cause. I would've studies and articulated + evaluated everything before taking the next step. Converting for marriage is not a true conversion. Reading and Understanding and hopefull you'll find common shared beliefs is still a waste of time. Cause you have to truly believe in what Islam teaches to what Christianity teaches.
Dear Mr. Sina,
It is always mentioned, don't marry a muslim man. Can one marry a muslim woman then. My husband has left me for one. He says she has unconditional love for him and he loves her more than anything in this world.
Julia, the moslem in general is a demented, retarded,inbred cretin.Where is the question of asking a moslem to read , understand , think and then comment? It is all futile.Islam is hatred. Pigsh1t pisslam teaches hatred towards,joos, Hindus, Christians.Shias, sunnis, Ahmedis, etcetc.Hate all men and women! Allah will give you 72 virgins and 28 boys to screw if your hatred is so much that you end up slaughtering kafirs!
NOT TRUE !!!
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT TRUE !!!
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT TRUE !!!
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT TRUE !!!
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT TRUE !!!
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT TRUE !!! Isam teaches NO love towards the disbelievers !
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT NEGATIVE !!! THE TRUTH !
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
YOU MUST BELIEVE IN YOUR QURAN ,STUPID !
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT TRUE !!!
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
NOT TRUE !!!
JUST READ THE QURAN. F.X. surah 2:24-"But if you do not – and you will never be able to – then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."
And so are many,many like this !!
Allah hates ALL disbelievers and sends them to hell .
Read it !! http://quran.com/
To Redwood .
Show me (us) where it says that Islam is bout love …er…also for disbelievers as you say you are>
Where is it in the Quran? Keep in mind that according to the same Quran later Surahs nullifies (abrogates) all earlyer surahs.
Perhaps your husband is a good man , I believe you ! But then he is NOT a good believing muslim.
Think about this. We are only saying the truth and the truth can be very difficult to hear. But it still is the truth !!
Have a happy life in FREEDOM !
This is a very negative biased website!
In your place I would search other sources of information before making a decision that will affect the rest of your life.
The negative aspects of Islam relate to extremism, and all religions have that – look back in history to the crusades in Europe. Don't listen to ignorant stereotyping about Islam and Muslims. Islam is about God & love, just like Christianity.
My husband is Muslim, from Iran. I'm American, and I'm not Muslim. We accept each other's freedom of religion & belief. We have been together going on 18 years.
If your goal is to convert him, then perhaps you should give up on the relationship. If you can accept him keeping his own religion, then you might succeed in the relationship. Perhaps ask him if he accepts that your children be educated in BOTH religions? Otherwise, obviously, this will always be an issue between you.
wow reading all the comments above make me think that y did god creat humans with brain to think .we rather be animals,,according to all religion god has reached out and told us to love each other and respect. but we blame the religion for being bad but the fact is we have manuplated it so well that we can live anyway we want, we never look upon the positive aspect of anything. even for chirstians u have to follow the ten commandmends i guess.who really follows???
so instead blaming all religious practices try and understand the need for those,
and for u dina make ur own choice. and be brave,,, god is always with u in all forms,,, inside u,, in u,, so trust god and be happy…
Your ppls opinions about Islam is so so bad. Look beyond ur nose. Muslims are not bad nor is islam. If Muslims were bad, why fall in love with him? Or rather, how did u fall in love with him? U get good and bad in every religion. There are bad christians and bad muslims but there are also good christians and good muslims. All of u with such "intelligent" answers against Islam, u will have enough time with a group of all of u who are alikein a place where there will be no muslims, u know where? HELL!
First of all, wish him well, pray to Jesus to deliver you from that Satanic cult and understand that Islam is like rabies. Once the person is infected there is no going back. Its a sick cult that will hopefully end up in the trash heap of failed isms someday but in the meatime, it is reaching its peak. It is SLAVERY for a woman. islam and freedom are antithetical. they can never co exist because a womans first and ONLY job is to obey anything her master husband wants including being a house slave unable to go out if master says no. You will not be able to get out and your future daughter will suffer beyond your wildest dreams being subjected to marital rape and having to welcome a 15 year old "wife" after he marries her and brings her home. In islam, a man does not have to inform his wife of his intention or in deed the facxt that he married another woman. get out now and thank GOd you have the freedom to get out before you become a rabies i mean muslim victim.
nonsense!christian is a religion of lies! even their own god is a human..dont christian have brain to think?
if u people have brain….tell me who create the world???who create the win??who create the soul???
muslim nowaday dosent follow what islam teach them to do..if u really dont know about islam then better shut ur mouth.If u want to marry a man understand his religion turthly..
Excuse me but getting rid of islam is not an option and neither is getting rid or christianity .Now just because a person is Muslim doesn't make then evil AND just in case you didn't know lying is one of the biggest sins on ISLAM. So how r u going to say muslims lie to get what they want ,we are talking about millions of pple here. Any person who lies ,lies out of there own will. ARE u saying there r less liars n christianity cause last time i checked there is still crime in christian areas OR does that not count because they confess when there getting the death sentence.
so whats wrong with him only seeing the beauty god gave u or is that a sin to? and why would u even want to show an more skin then your ankle your a married woman. Its your fault u married a guy who sweat talked you , but don't blame the religion for that . Maybe you should have married your own religion. It is true that man r attracted to a woman with nice legs vs. a woman not showing any. why do you thing girls play with there hair and style it. FOR ATTENTION oviously if others didn't care about how they looked they wouldn't have either.
To one Christian Woman To another do not get caught in the midst of a MUSLIM man because you:re looking for a Husband. God will be your Husband both now and forever. He will not disrespect you, He will love You, He will Cherish You unlike The MUSLIM Men that are deceptive demanding disrespectful. You will be treated like a second class citizen forever. I advise you please be wise and leave while you have a chance. Why put yourself in Prison when God Says Whom The Son Has Set Free You're Free Indeed. Go Where You can always be Celebrated because with Muslim Men You will only be tolerated
Hello Im a Christian Totally sold out to The Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. I have befriended a Muslim guy and everything you women especially Dr. Sina ( A Brilliant Woman Of God) has written is priceless. How wonderfully amazing God works to Bless and Save His Women From The Destroyer. I Pray That God will continue to Bless your minds and allow it to remain sober and sound to give out His Word and Messages to people in Challenging and Deceptive situations like Sister Dina. It's imperitive and crucial to our Christian Faith to not allow Muslim Men to confuse us. For the last several month my muslim male friend has tried to totally and deliberately turn me from Christ. The degrading things that he says about Christ is really sad because one day He will need him. Praise God for your courageous spirits and continue to Rise Shine and Give God The Glory For What is Right
Wow. All NEGATIVE! First listen to ur heart and don't listen to anyone of these people who don't know or understand you're situation. Follow your HEART!!!
Love is what Islam teaches.
Its all about individuality hate and love. I can guaranty you there is no such religion which teaches hate.
If its Islam,Christianity,Jew ism,Hinduism,Buddhism or any other religion .Please read the fundamentals of any religion there is no HATE.
That's all what I can say.
There was an era where women's where burnt alive if there Husband dies and there are many more examples to be ref red from time to time. But that was not been taught by any religion its was all about culture that is it .
Belive in what you see is true.
Thanks
I just want to tell you something, Muslim is not hate or disrespect Muslim is the true religion in this world. Al thought every religion have bad and good people but you don't have to disrespect the Islam. If i tell you the meaning of Islam is (peace & love) and Muslim religion is love and respect to each others older younger, neighborhood and to help each other or the one who needs you whatever religion that person believe, we should help. And if i talk about Prophet ISA, (CS) You need to believe that Prophet Jesus was not the son of God but a Prophet. In addition, you need to believe that Prophet Jesus will return back to Earth. You have to believe in the Bible, the Torah, (the first that came out, not these books we see these days) and the Quran. You need to have faith that the Quran is the final book for all mankind and it is the word of Lord. After you meet all of this criteria then you need to say the testimonal of faith to become a Muslim. Those of you who deny their Lord and worshiping besides of their Lord something else Lord (ALLAH) says in the Qur'an they will go HELL fire so, brother and sister this the right religion before your time comes i will sagest you to find the true religion which is Islam and try to learn Our lord give us mind that we understand right and wrong. So before it's too late go and find the truth before you have time because if your time end nobody have second chance Allah is great and most forgiving for those who comeback for him (Our Lord is the king in this world and hereafter and none has the right to worship but Allah)
hi dina.you not sit and think that about islam. but islam is the soulution for human life.with out islam the world become un lowful
If you think that you can change a man then that's all wrong. Considering that it's too hard to change yourself, how least is your chance to change others?
If you want to start a new life without him, the moves are from you. It's better if you'll transfer to another place and don't communicate with him and dont tell him where will you go. Socialize more with non Muslim guys be it on cyber world or real world so that your horizons will be broaden and makes you realize that there are many fishes in the ocean. The decision is from you. If you can't decide then you are forever stuck with that problem. If you decide to stay away from him, always pray that you'll be recovered the soonest possible from the broken heart and that God may lead you to the man He reserves for you. God can do miracles and mend a broken heart. When I broke up with my ex, prayers help a lot.
Susanne, you are lucky that your husband is not abusive and a beater. A beater man will beat you even small things that provokes him. In Islam, a husband can beat and kill the wife is she leaves him.
The best advice is not to ask for advice or take advice from anyone. God gave us free will to make our own choices in life and reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of those choices. That is part of the path called life.
Blindly trusting someone else's advice will hurt you in the long run. If you trust in God, He will show you the way. God is all around us, in every religion. It is man who creates the division in religion and between races and sexes.
Girl, go seek some professional spiritual counseling instead of taking Satan's advice. God is love and understanding and acceptance. Not negativity, doubt, judgement of others or fear. If you're a Christian, trust in His teaching rather than taking advice from Heathens. You know better Dina.
You're already allowing another man control you by allowing him to make choices in YOUR future. Sounds
Dina is only right in one thing leave him if your not going to convert to islam .
and find yourself some other of your same religion.
All of you on this website are full of bs!!!
You cant ever get along with a muslim because your all
devils.
And yes youll have to leave this man
Because you dont have much to say anything in common
If your not willing to convert to islam you will not be happy
Nomatter how hard you try.
Islam is number one and no muslim will abandon his or her religion for anyone
Your kids from him if your with him will no doubt be muslim
And muslim are not evil people who kill others and feel hate
I have many.muslim friends good decent honest loving people and i know
Im.muslim my self.and there is good and bad in all race and religio
Theres no perfect place or perfect people in this world.
He offered to buy you a BMW if you say yes? That does not make him a perfect man. It makes him a desperate man. He can become violent once he realizes his pleading will not work. He may even become vindictive and do some harm to you. Some Muslim men have burned the faces of the women who rejected them. Possessiveness is a sickness and the needy person is dangerous. Act wisely. Instead of rejecting him outright tell him you need time to think alone. Even that may not work. I hope you will be safe.
Hi Dina.. i was wondering if u took that step n left him yet??! cuz i'm going through all this.. i'm living in egypt right now about to graduate from college..and had a muslim boyfriend for about 2 years.. we're in love n all but i always knew it was a dead end!!
I'm trying to gather my strenght to leave him n now that he's discussing marriage n that i said no, he's going crazy n not to mention the "i can't live without u overdose" but of course he wants our kids to be muslims and i have no say in that.. and he tried everything to persuade me to go through with this.. he even offered me a new bmw car as a gift if i said yes.. i love him.. he's like the perfect guy and u know what?! i'm not even that religious.. i believe in christ but my relationship with god has so many ups n downs!!
but knowing it's a one-way ticket.. n being smart enough to know that the muslim mentality will never change (cuz they're all a bunch of clones).. i'd better run now while i still can!!
i wish u good luck girl 😉
Hahahahaha… well said, winoceros!!
a week ago I met a woman who could not stop talking about love, she seems to be a devoted christian. She was married and had a really bad time with her husband, who wasn't muslim. Grow up guys! are you promising Dina happiness if she leaves her boyfriend? the truth is muslims a very strong in their belief and it is already a sacrifice of love when he chooses to marry outside his religion. Dina you say you love him? have you asked yourself why? might it just be that his good character has overwhelmed you? If not then truthfully even if he were christian or a prince I would advise you not to marry him. I don't where you guys read about Islam.. my God! muslims kill their children? I am muslim, still alive my parents didn't kill me by the way. Dina, if you love this man as you say you do, then learn Islam from muslims not from this random internet blogger who seems to know so much and hate so much..and he is christian (he "knows how to love")..why so much hate then? from your posts Dina, I see that you are also not ready to learn you have to be impartial. If you go in it trying to convert him or pull things your side then you'll turn this guy against you and spoil your established friendship. Relationships are what you make of them..be the one to drive yours don't let these people who claim love but truly hate tell you how to live your life. I am muslim, and female and the most free, most stably happy and most open minded of many people I know. I love Islam (yes we are human and we love) I love my family and I love people who are honestly none judgemental. To be honest I am scared for your boy friend because may be he doesn't know what kind of stuff you read and what you think deep down about his faith. Honestly if you are decided you hate Islam, leave the guy..because this will cause you and him a lot of sadness. As much as you hear stories people who married muslims, I also have heard stories of success and others of failure..some christian women took the kids away and disappeared (I am sure that is not a very christian thing to do) so I don't blame christianity. search for this group on facebook "New To Islam" and hopefully you will get to understand true Islam. Best wishes!
"what would constitute objective proof of God? Well, consider the following self-evident and universally recognized truth: Concept and design necessitate an intelligent designer." First existence is relative what looks "designed" is just how it appears in your mind not as it truly is. The same for beauty. Second where this designer come from? As the cosmological argument says every finite and contingent being has a cause.
this is our site. http://goaloflife.wordpress.com/ <— real Scholary works of Islam that is hidden from people.
What is your site?
what kind of fake letter is this?. I mean it shows the stupidity and idiotic behavior of the original owner to create such lies and defame other human beings who practice their faith. It actually shows psychotic behavior from the OPs part. This is more like christian fundamentalist material, and can be classified as hate speech.
I suggest to do some actual research, stop creating lies to fit your own agendas. Muslims do not feel love? are you stupid? All human beings have natural emotions, and through these emotions they are able to live life. Now if your excuse is to look at the history of Islam, then look at the history of all faiths, lets look at the crusades?, I wonder what the christians did to many innocent people? what do they even do now? invading other countries in the name of God, I mean oil, child abuse?. Lets look at the Jews? murdering and oppression the Palestinians? , Lets look at the Hindus, with there cast system?, at least Gandhi tried to fix some of it.
If you have not studied something to a scholarly level then leave your media indoctrinated opinions to your self. Stop promoting false information because you want people to believe in christ?. A concept of trinity where God is three, where each part tells it owns self a message?
If you want to learn go to my site and grow up. Bunch of uneducated fakers. Gain some real knowledge. It might help you and humanity it self. thanks
“i just got into a relationship with a muslim guy.. ive dated europeans, canadians, a jewish guy.. and none have been as respectful as he is.”
Yep. That is typical. At first they are the moer respectful guys around. Come back in a few years and tell us how it went.
What is amusing is that these young chicks, barely hatched, think they have figuired it all out and everyone else is just a fool.
dont make the mistake of thinking that happens to everyone who is with a muslim or who marries a muslim. if i married a muslim man and that ended up happening, i wouldnt care how involved i was, i would get out of there as soon as possible. that can end up happening with a man OR A WOMAN of any religion
this is by far the stupidest message board i have ever seen. it shouldnt even be up.
before everyone goes against me… id like to say that im a female from romania, currently living in canada.. my parents and grandparents think exactly like all of you and its shit. maybe its your lack of education that makes you think its ok to talk about people like this or maybe its your arrogance, i dont know.. what i do know is if you are immature enough to go ahead and ask a complete stranger for relationship advice…. we have found the problem.. YOU.. you say you feel like he scares you and all this bs.. is it because he ACTUALLY scares you or youre too busy lately reading shit about muslims on the net. get off your computer and go talk to your boyfriend. if i were him, i would leave you the minute you told me that you were afraid of your kids being muslim.. if anything, thats disrespectful towards him and he deserves better.. i just got into a relationship with a muslim guy.. ive dated europeans, canadians, a jewish guy.. and none have been as respectful as he is. if this lasts, im not gonna go ahead and convert or anything.. ill keep my religion and he'll keep his and we're both more than ok with that.. you say this guy is really into religion and whatnot.. well NO WONDER he doesnt understand where youre coming from.. youre what, christian or something? thats like someone saying to you, ok youve believed in this faith for your whole life.. i dont agree with it, so change it.. dont get me wrong, there are plenty of muslim extremists out there who do stupid shit like killing their wives or kids or bombing buildings, but do NOT judge everybody based on those idiots. you keep saying you want to "save him".. save him FROM WHAT? you sound like you run a cult, YOU sound like the crazy one. so either follow up on his religion and find out what its actually about or break up with him because he deserves better.
you guys are pathetic.
This response letter is so incredibly true I am amazed to read it! I married a muslim man and my life has been filled with misery for 9 years. I have a son with him and we have been seperated for 3 years. I am now fighting to keep my son away from him. It is exactly accurate when they say muslims do not know how to truly love. I have suffered so much cruelty from this guy. He does horrible things to me and claims love. Its not natural and it is very much like the humanity has been taken from him completely. Anyone who marries a muslim man can expect to be abused and lied to for the rest of your life. And he will never see anything wrong with his behavior.
What is appalling is a grown woman living a life of cognitive dissonance by deigning to marry a Muslim when she doesn't share his values. Do you simply not agree with Islam? Or are there parts of Islam that concern you? Does that not send little red flags up and down your spine?
And then, to "counterbalance" your argument about the documented and painful history of women subsumed and brutalized and murdered and oppressed and erased by Muslim men, in the billions of people over 1400 years, you bring up a couple people who killed abortion doctors?
Z is bad so A, B, C, D, E, ad nauseum is excusable? That's your argument?
Of course all Muslims are not baby killers. Sina never said any such thing. If he doesn't make you cover your head and or ears and or neck consider yourself lucky, because he can. Know that he is taking an enormous amount of grief from his family for what he married.
If you have children, the tragedy is manifold.
Here's what I suggest: live the good and charitable life you are (probably) living. Try not to think about the issues that come along with having grown up in a Muslim family. Try not to think about the trust issues that confers. Try not to think about female genital mutilation and male circumcision done well into elementary school-age. Just ignore the thousands of dead girls and women this year, with no pursuit by local justice. Pay no attention to the ability of your husband, on a dime, to turn and demand his Islamic rights from you. Ignore the fact that you are considered his property in Islam, and that Islam says he is superior in intelligence to you. You probably have a prenup, which is good.
You're just lucky he's not that devout, because it's the only thing that allows you to come here at spout self-righteous nonsense about how "well he treats me," as if you're waiting for someone to validate you with their "treatment".
You and he do not share values, yet you would marry him? For what? Love? Lots of men to love, lots of men who can engage in adult partnerships with women rather than those who feel they've moved into a new era somehow by not "lightly beating" their wives if they "fear disobedience from" them, and being all modern and stuff. If that is the case, then you cannot believe that you can rage from this unique position of modernity you enjoy and extrapolate that onto the rest of the Muslim world's attempt at marriage jihad, not to mention passport jihad. Because most women who succumb to this ploy do not end up so indignantly defensive. Most end up miserable and oppressed, and claiming they enjoy the ignominy…how "protected" they feel.
It is no surprise to me that you are here looking for "information," since you are finally now getting around to trying to understand what Islam has to offer the world. There are truly nice people, and it sounds like your husband is one of them. But it has nothing to do with his Islam, and you have to ignore a lot of his upbringing and worldview to focus just on the "nice guy" part. He's probably glad to be out of the thumbscrews of his family as I'll bet you a nickel the two of you do not live near his family.
Lastly, you don't talk like a Christian. You're being extremely hyperbolic, accusatory, intolerant of others and pointing the fingers at others whom you've just met. I make no such claim, I just call 'em like I see 'em. You are here for a reason, I think. You might as well ask your questions and get some responses you can pick through and decide about.
Actually, according to their texts, he had no sons who lived, only daughters. I believe it was three, but don't quote me.
Sorry. Absurd.
Huh, I don't know. Maybe because the "tiny minority" of rampaging, murderous Muslims in the world?
I was recommended this blog by my cousin. I’m now not positive whether this put up is written by way of him as nobody else understand such unique about my problem. You’re incredible! Thank you!
I'm sorry. Your comment is incoherent, so I am unable to respond.
I fly my colors proudly as my avatar shows.
I went to the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) and asked him: "What do you say (command) about our wives?" He replied: "Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them." Book 11, Number 2139 – Abu Dawud
True Colors showing John
He who know not the truth pretended to posses it, he who never so much as described it adorned himself with it: he who had it much upon his tongue denied it with his acts and he who displayed it in his expositsion concealed it by his true conduct. That which was not of it was intoduced into it, that which was not in it ascribed to it: its truth was made false and he who knew it called ignorant. But he who had experienced (the truth) drew apart, being jealous for it : he who had described it was silent, being envious for it. So the hearts (of men fled from it, and the souls departed; science and its people, exposition and its practise, vanished; the ignorant became the scientists, and the scientist became the guides.
No the best way is to learn Arabic and study Islam yourself rather then getting all of your ''facts'' from a fanatic that has been showed many times many quotes are only half or twisted yet he and others still do these acts thus you all claim to know truth yet speak half (half quoting) or none (lie) at all
Same problem with me too !!! i dont want mah kids to become muslim.
tried many a times to leave him bt nt able to.. i am very upset
Dina my Sister, please please please listen to Ali.
We care for you that is why we're pleading you.
We don't want another sister to suffer.
Your religion is not less important. Your religion is equally important.
I don’t think you have read the Quran yourself. This is what the Quran says about women and to me it is degrading.
4:34, Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other,,,. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. .
2:228, And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them
2:223 Your women are a tilt for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilt as ye will,
Gosh! I am sorry, but this article is absolutely ridiculous!!! What on Earth is in the asker's head? Lady, I have the feeling you are the fanatic Christian here. I am Christian and married to a Muslim man. And I am still happy after several good years of marriage. God is one and he sent all His messengers to share his blessed religion. Judaism, christianity, islam – it is only one, pure, loving religion. Lady, out of curiosity, have you tried reading the Qur'an? At least to know what the man you "love" believes in? Try it and at that moment you will see how stupid your prejudices are. May God have mercy of you!
In Christianity murder is a sin.
You are babbling. Do you have something specific that you see wrong and would like to talk about?
"According to the bible, christian is almost likely same as islam"
This is the kind of thing that can only be said by someone who has spent very little time studying the Bible or the Quran.
The best way for you to learn about Islam is to read what Dr. Sina has published here from the Quran and Sunna. Your leaders hide these from you or you know about them and you are a liar. Which is it?
Thank you and please do come back.
According to the bible, christian is almost likely same as islam.. Woman actually have to cover their hair..like nun.. Divorce is a sin..RESPECTING OTHER RELIGION.. And at the end of the world islam and christian will be combine together to survive.. I believe that all religion have their own way.. If u really do love ur boyfriend, try to do more research about islam by asking a real muslim.. A real muslim that know for everything wat muslim did, wat purposes it is… They know the best answer like if u wanna know more about christian the best way to ask is from father.. I hope this helps u open up ur mind and heart..realisung by askng someone who is full of hatred opinion with the person who actually reallly the real truth and purposes of islam..
Muslim doesnt spreadonly people whonis lost spread hate.such as ali sina doing right now he spread hates.
Wow thats stupid asking her to leave her husband.. Even in christian divorce is a sin
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Is this what you mean by what Christians and Jews are meant to be?
“The unbelievers are the vilest of animals” (8:55);
“Slay the unbelievers wherever they find them” (2:191);
“Fight them and show them harshness” (9:123);
“Do not take them as friends and helpers (3:28); and
“Smite their necks” (47:4).
Clearly you don't bother to read and learn before you write anything. How can you ask those who have already read and learned to do that which you have not done?
Since you complain about me calling you a barbarian, I thought I would post some information to help you with this. First look at the article I posted in my blog on the definitions of barbarianism and civilization. Then look in the comments section where I posted an article from Sultan Knish who just happened to be writing on the subject at the same time. Finally, Ibn Warraq just posted another relevant article at FFI:
My article:
http://www.freedombulwark.net/my-blog/humanitas-v…
Ibn Warraq
http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/op-ed/ibn-wa…
From what I can observe of you in your posts, you probably feel like you live a civilized lifestyle. You probably have a regular job and take care of your family. But the problem is that you come from a barbarian-rooted culture and it shows in the thought patterns in your posts. You often talk about a minority of extremists, but yet you all function as a cultural bloc in supporting Muslim initiatives, condemning Israel, and etc. Mitt Romney held up the Muslims of Dearborn, MI as an example of moderate, Americanized Muslims, as does the TV show, All-American Muslim. But look at this Muslim mob at the Dearborn Arab Festival, and you will see that American Muslims are not really different from Middle-Eastern Muslims at the core:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EA4zr7xLyk
Other videos of American Muslim demonstrations catch them shouting for Jews to go back to the ovens and chanting, "Khaybar, Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad saya'ud!"
Is this the behavior of moderate Muslims, supposedly the best Muslims in the world who combine civilization with Islam? No, I submit to you that they are barbarians just as much as the 7th Century Muslims who rode out of the desert to conquer an Empire from Cordoba to China, and stopped at the Gates of Vienna from overrunning Europe. To the extent that you share in their belief system and support your community, you are a barbarian participating in and defending a barbarian culture. This makes you just as much guilty of the crimes of the terrorists because you defend the ideology that motivates them.
Regarding your thought processes, your comments display the traits I have previously posted concerning Quranic Logic and Quranic Argument. Rather than post them again here, I will provide the link to read them in their context:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/book-review/…
Now if you are really interested in learning, you will read the links I have provided. In civilized society, we say that you cannot make a professional evaluation unless you have read all of the literature on the subject. You will not even read Dr. Sina's book, or the articles on this site, or the evidence posted by commenters. With this behavior alone, you define yourself as a barbarian. Prove us wrong. If you want to be a civilized person, read the material I have gathered for you here in this comment. If you don't read it, well, then you have just proved that you are indeed a barbarian.
If you call this site as fully opinion then I can say that all things you muslim have are opinions. It's that simple.
Is Quran real? Not a fact but belief.
Is Muhammad real? not a fact but belief
Is hadith real? Not a fact but belief.
Is tafsir real? Not a fact but mere opinion.
You have known what? Subjective words is easily found on any religion. I have seen muslim women turn to christian or just out of it but the difference is that apostasy is actually under rated and conversion news is spread like fire. It depends on who's "the man" in charge.
Quran said Christians are cursed because of shirk and Christmas is a shirk. True meaning of Christian and Jews? Do you mean Islamic meaning? Other than that is forbidden.
Saying merry christmas is the same with acknowledging their "corrupted teaching". Did Muhammad ever say anything about other religion's big day? Remember, we talk about Muhammad, not you. How many times do I have to repeat this?
Remember those who are Christian and Jewish what the true meaning of Christmas and Hanukkah is and not to threaten,slander, be respectful of other religions and not to incite hatred ect on others
You do not speak for the Muslims John and others and many have pointed out where you are all wrong but alas rather then actually try and learn you all replete the same non-sense
Happy Christmas and Happy Hanukkah those who actually are being what Christians and Jewish are meant to be and being true to the teaching (Not slandering Muslims and others )
-JSOP
Not allowed to be mentioned here? Your name is Morris, but you act like a woman, deficient in intelligence? Do you even know enough about Islam to know where that verse is found?
Don't judge Islam by the way it behaves when it is restrained by Western laws. Judge Islam by the way it behaves where Islam rules.
Are all comments tryin to explain a Muslamised / islamic perspective not allowed to be mentioned here. i like bieng open minded but there seems to be opinions and anecdotes , rather than actual facts of islam , im jus curious .
I have known christian women become muslim , who have not had restrictions and mistreatment, i know a doctor who resided in Egypt and now lives in U.K , christian now muslim.
have a great new year people
The same old rant. xD
2 wrongs don't make right. All of these are answered and this enlightened is not even a Christian, silly.
really?Quran sees woman more human than bible?,should i prove?
Why are you scared,why are you a coward,hiding behind the Internet?
Too much talking but no proof. Care to answer my queries?
You need to spend more time reading articles on this site. What you are missing is that Muslims who are good people are good because they are not close to the teachings of the Quran. When Muslims live in a country that is immersed in pure Islam, they behave badly as seen in TV reports from Pakistan etc. When Muslims who live in civilized countries have a life crisis and want to draw closer to God, they read the Quran and learn about their duty to kill non-Muslims and all the rest of the sociopathic behavior that goes with Sharia law.
Hello, first of all this man who Dina wants to marry has his own issues and he needs to calm down and treat her with more respect. DON’T MARRY HIM. But what most of you don't realize is you confuse certain Muslims with Islam. Then you go and label the whole thing evil. In every religion there are going to be a certain amount of people who are crazy people and wife beaters and drug abusers. Islam doesn’t approve of such behaviors. This is NOT how the character of a Muslim should be. In fact the prophet Muhammad (SAW) said that the ideal man to marry has two characteristics. Good character and knowledge of their religion Islam. Character is very important in Islam. Islam comes from salama or salam and that means peace. A muslim is one who submits himself/herself to Allah.
As for killing your kids and enslavement either physically or mentally there is no such thing in Islam. The Quran (Words of Allah and Allah means “ the god” signifying his oneness) says and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, for verily we will provide for you and for them, and indeed in their killing is a great sin. Clearly the Quran shows that killing your children is a sin. So I don’t know where you guys got that from. The other part is enslavement. The Quran says, will they not ponder/think. Another verse says will they not reflect. Another verse says that the righteous are the ones who ponder over the creation of the heavens and earth. So Allah is constantly telling us to ponder and to think. The prophet Muhammad (saw) said that the cure to ignorance is asking. So it is perfectly fine to think and to ask in Islam. So mentally you are supposed to think constantly and ask when a question comes. As for the physical enslavement the Quran says there is no compulsion in religion. Also Allah says for verily only upon you is the message. We only deliver the message and we do not enslave. If someone doesn’t believe in Islam he isn’t a Muslim and that is that. If you are a Muslim you can chose to believe or to disbelieve. But if you disbelieve then there will come a day that you will have deep regrets and if you die in a state of disbelief you will abide in hell forever. So you cannot force anyone into Islam because a Muslim is one who submits Himself/ Herself to Allah by obeying his commandments( Bear witness there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his slave and messenger , to pray, fast, pay charity to the poor, and to take pilgrimage to hajj if possible) and not committing sins. So if we enslave people into Islam they would not submit themselves to Allah. A Muslim is one who submits themselves to Allah and if we force them they wouldn’t be Muslim. By the way we love Moses, Jesus, and Abraham etc. along with the other prophets (Peace be upon them). They are prophets/messengers sent from god with miracles proofs and we believe they all called to worship one god. But as time passed the Torah and the other books they came with were changed. So god sent new messengers as time passed and god said Muhammad is the last prophet and that Allah will protect the Quran. 1446 years have passed since the first verse of Quran came down and not one word has been lost or changed. Don’t believe me look it up. We are in year 1433 and 13 years before that he received the first revelation. Also the Quran has many miracles and facts in it that Muhammad (saw) could not have known. He came with the truth and had miracles. SO IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME FINE LIVE IN DENIAL. I CAN GIVE YOU THE CHAPTERS AND VERSE NUMBERS IF YOU WANT. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ASK AND DO NOT BE SHY. THANK YOU.
Little bit or a double standard you do not want to be forced to be a Muslim yet you try and force him to be a Christian (both committing the same bad act of trying to force convert each other)
There are many Muslims married to many different religions and they do work
Quite strange if you believed Islam and all the Muslims were hate spreader and evil and was against being a Christian to marry them (it is not) then why go anywhere near a Muslim if you hated them so much ?
Islam does not spread hate learn the Religion and you will see this is not only not true but those who are say this do not know Islam
Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] are a portion that stand (for the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous." (Holy Quran 3:113-114)
-JSOP
A true Muslim male would not enforce the wearing of any covering (Most woman choose to wear the face covering) , would not yell, threaten,hit a woman, not provide for there wife, or dishonour there wife ect only a few Muslims commit these acts all of these acts are not allowed in Islam
If you truly love someone religion will not really matter and be open to the fact that Islam is not evil or any religion is not evil but there are some that use religion to justify abuses (which contradicts all religious faiths and ethics )
Only a small % of people commit these abuses
You will see many Muslims married to every type of religions/none religion
Again I see Ali Sina stating not to marry a Muslim for being a Muslim stating Muslims are evil
Yet again spreading slander and vilifying the Muslim people
You do not speak for the Muslim people and it is insulting to say that a Muslim is damaged, does not know the meaning of love and would happily kill there own children this is not acceptable to say and is indeed not only slandering this Muslim male but all Muslims, many have been jailed for less
Muslims are not the only people who think this as there are many humans rights people many different religious people all think this also
-JSOP
"islam never permit to beat a woman"
So your Islam must not use the Quran.
Q.4:34
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
"respect every body's believes"
Sorry, this belief does not deserve respect. If you beat your wife, she would not respect you either.
ms.monalisa
i am a disabled, on a wheelchair i got muscular dystrophy. when i was only 24 after two yrs i got married. i love my wife & she loves me. we passed 33 yrs & i think she will remain my wife hereafter & continuing her love to me in heaven. i know your religion. what our respecting Jesus said about. but till i never fell that state. we can continue our love &also love our 2 children evenly. i respect & love my wife more then whole world. only ignore people can change there wife. they never get the proper love & religion. they never get real knowledge from there religion. loving each other i am taught by Jesus from The holly Bible. theres no existence of me without my wife & also her without me. what is between us? LOVE IS GOD the teaching of The holly Bible. I'm a proud muslim get the teaching of Jesus & Muhammad. you get Jesus but not respect him & never obey his teaching. so your people divorce more then muslims. actually muslim get it from you. you know i love all people also you. i believe you should obey your religion & love & respect Jesus
ms. monalisa
you are in wrong like muslims. actually no man can live in open sunlight like desert areas. sun rays contains ultraviolet rays where there is no trees with green leaves. so Arabians wire hijab man or woman everybody to protect sunlight. does anybody live in London can live without wiring warm cloths? yes, there is dogma in muslim, they make pressure over their there woman to wire hijab. it is not islam. islam says "heaven is under the feet of woman" if she be happy man can get heaven. islam never permit to beat a woman. if she go wrong way only about sex her husband can beat him use no wepon. this beating is nothing except counsellings. manly power never believe woman's rights. they preach inversely. don't you know the German solders of Hitlers died the cold of Siberia? german also cold but Siberia is more cold then German. can you stay there without wiring cloths covered head to toes by very warm cloths. face can tolerate sun rays more then whole skins. so in desert or any place lake of trees or green leaf like winter of USA you have to cover your whole body except your face. it is scientifically truth. so misunderstand islam for dogmatic people . islam is initiated from Adam. Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus every body preach islam. we the real muslim believe on our every prophet. & also love there. never hatred any religion respect every body's believes.
my sister
if you love him never leave him. if he love him never insist to leave him islam. your child will free to practice any religion if you look after him a real thinking. try to give your child real knowledge & education. i am a muslim, i'm sure i love Jesus more then any Christians. because i'm a muslim i'm a christian also. we never believe such a thing insulting our Jesus. so no harm to marry your partner. future is not your hand & also believe. if you ever marry a christian how can you sure your child never become a muslim? i'm very poor in English. i don't know if i give you some thing good or not. your brotherly
I totally agree with Dr Ali Sina when he said that love do happens many times in life. Oh, my dear Dr Ali Sina, do you know that I love you many times in my life? I don't understand why you have to paste your handsome picture up there? It reminds me to love you more and more each day until the end of the world. :p
You must be very young. Love happens many times in life.
Oh, my dear Mormon John K, it all depends whether that bird can fly in the air or not. If that bird is impotent and can't fly at all, then, a flying fish or a sperm whale will be much better. So, I'm interested to know if your bird can fly or not? If not, then, you'd better be that big sperm whale and start to learn to fly like a flying fish. xD
So the moral of the story is…
Sometimes birds in the air are better than fish in the sea! B)
Hi laisa.lucy, give your lover a copy of Dr Ali Sina's masterpiece "Understanding Muhammad" and if he is a rational guy, he will realized the truth that his religion is a horrible cult and he will agree to join you in getting out of this Islamic sinkhole. I think that he deserve your love and respect. But if he remain a stubborn mule after reading this good book and even hit you in the name of allah, for doubting allah's last prophet. Then, I would advise you to be smart and leave this horrible creature for good. I know that it's not easy for you because you have fallen deeply in love with him but why give up the whole forest just for one horrible tree? The world is so big and there are so many good birds in the air ie. John K. So, don't worry that you can't find a good bird to share your life with. Who knows that you'll be able to find a man who is 100 times much better than that horrible creature! xD
Hi Lucy,
Thanks for sharing your story. Help is available, and it's not as hard as you think.
First you have to get some perspective. Feelings of panic can come when we feel that love happens only once in a lifetime. You have to take the pressure off yourself by realizing that that is just not true.
When we are in love we feel all idealistic and want to believe that this person is the one and only. But that's just not the case. You have to replace your thoughts with correct thinking.
First, you have to know that love is blind. That means that you are capable of loving just about anyone. So that means that you have to engage your filter to limit who you allow yourself to fall in love with.
If you felt an attraction to a murderer, would you be unable to control your feelings?
Or if he was a drug addict?
Or if he was a wife beater?
Or if you found out he is secretly already married and looking for a second wife?
No, of course not. Any of these things would instantly turn you off and you would no longer have any feelings for him.
So the first thing is to eliminate this idea that your feelings are in control of you. You are in control of your feelings. Love is a choice. Decide you deserve better, and you will find someone better. A large number of dysfunctional relationships occur because a woman does not feel she is desirable or worthy of anything better. Set your standards high. Be the kind of person you would want to marry, and that kind of person will be attracted to you. Then I can assure you that when you find the right person, your emotions will come into play again, and you will fall in love again.
dear, u are not only person sinking for this answer im not the christan and a muslim but i love 1 muslin guy so much even i heard about more then 3 marriage culture for them despite i love him so much but i cant share my love with others girls and he show so much love to me and told me he is ready to married me well im blind in love like you and u guys are tell so easily like leave him but its not an easy matter to do so coz love happen once in a life time n its took alots of memories n cute small small matter to built a love i can leave him bt cant leave the days and memories which we share please help me
Right. I elaborated on it more in another post, primarily on the altruistic and unselfish aspects.
Simply ignorant about love, isn't he? Love is general affection, it can be towards the opposite sex or friend or child or parents etc.
Including love being worshiped. <3
"love is simply the mental illusion of one's egocentric sexual perception"
With this kind of idealism you should start your own religion.
Hope that you read the articles and the evil and errors in Quran too. Islam was not the first civilization. Where did you get that? All it had was war to dominate and conquer. Islam doesn't promote civilization but submission.
Try to refute rather than giving subjective words like this.
Hello Dina,
You are a Christian living in Misr. You are lucky that the man you are in love is from Iraq. The other things which you wrote like, your sincere love, to save him etc. Remember love is simply the mental illusion of one’s egocentric sexual perception towards his/her opposite sex. There is no real essence in it. The perception changes with time. But marriage is a social bondage, thereafter you will be having a family with many responsibilities. So, my personal advice to you is to select a man within your community which will be far more a wise move. Marriage life itseif is a big problem, and you can atleast avoid one major problem from it by not engaging with a guy who represents another faith (let it be any religion). Just leave him, tell him good bye & choose another guy from your community. You may lead a happy life. If not you will be in a huge crisis in the years to come. I know many couples engaged in intercaste marriages after a legecy of divine love stories, but what happened is 99% of which were a total failure. It’s not only the case for intercaste marriages but also in general, all love marriages. By the by I know it is very difficult to remove the perception of love from the mind. When his thoughts come just reveal that it is nothing but a delusion of mind. Practice meditation for some days & empty your mind. As early as possible choose a guy among yourself and get engaged. At any cost, don’t do intercaste/ intercommunal marriages. May you have peace in life. If you can, commend your opinin.
dear dina
Muslims greet you is the peace
Women in Islam, they did not honor any other religion.
Understanding of the mother and sister and daughter
Which children are raised and instilling in them the sound doctrine
Because they are young men and the future
This keen to Islam and inciting them to prepare properly prepare them intellectually
Other Muslim men on his wife is evidence of love and fear it
Not in the sense that the backward Tqsdonh
We are Muslims and I hear the songs are good
I hope those who accuse Islam and Muslims unjustly to go to read Islamic books and thinks about it
Hoping not to find what he knows about Islam and Muslims
The owners of the first civilization, which reached their state from India to Spain
I want some too…
Unfortunately we have read your books. If you can talk about Islam in this manner, it unfortunately shows that you have not read your books.
Read the articles on this site to familiarize yourself with key points you have missed in your education.
Muslims greet you is the peace
Women in Islam, they did not honor any other religion.
Understanding of the mother and sister and daughter
Which children are raised and instilling in them the sound doctrine
Because they are young men and the future
This keen to Islam and inciting them to prepare properly prepare them intellectually
Other Muslim men on his wife is evidence of love and fear it
Not in the sense that the backward Tqsdonh
We are Muslims and I hear the songs are good
I hope those who accuse Islam and Muslims unjustly to go to read Islamic books and thinks about it
Hoping not to find what he knows about Islam and Muslims
The owners of the first civilization, which reached their state from India to Spain
Grace, the one who’s begging is not me, but you. This is your tactic to shift the blame to me when you don’t know how to answer. Apparently, my weight is balanced and average build (literally and metaphorically). I don’t have any problem with that, you know. Do you understand why I called you like that?
As a self claimed good Samaritan you should learn how he acted and what reaction he got from his surrounding. This is the crux of your problem. You can’t even differentiate simple thing like this. Oh, want to share money? Okay, I want 100,000 dollars. Do you have it?
Mr Sanada_10, so it's true that you're a poor and stubborn beggar who is too poor to buy food to eat and your weight is decreasing drastically everyday and you'll soon become a skeleton in no time, just like Dr Albert Einstein?
As a good Samaritan, I'll like to share some of my money with you, so that you can survive on planet earth. Please do humbly let me know how should I go about it to help a poor skinny fellow like you. 🙂
Ah, see? You are begging me again. Please do what I say … I need food … look, my weight is losing, it’s 176 pounds 3 days ago and now it’s 174 …
I never have problem grasping the truth as long as you can prove it. What did you do here? Did you prove it or beg for it?
The law of universe not known to us, eh? Does it have anything to do with this problem? What kind of law? Bring an example. Did you use “irrational jump” to connect this into the problem I presented?
Hah? Sina is what because of what? You are so subjective, grace. You didn’t point out the similarity with your view. Einstein is not stupid and anyone who calls him like that is stupid. Calling one of the great scientists on this earth as stupid just because he didn’t share your belief won’t make you look good.
You can be confident, that’s your business but confident often doesn’t lead to success. There are many over confident people getting tricked in this world because they think to highly of themselves.
You can pray but is that going to work? Does god need it? Doesn’t god know it? Did he make the scenario before?
The very reason I called you that is the begging act you keep posting. Please this, please that, but you never answered my straightforward question. Nope, this is completely sane.
No grace, you are not a Good Samaritan. Other users have expressed their dislike to you. Good Samaritan had positive attitude and never insult, let alone begging.
Right from the beginning I’ve been disclosing the fact that god is omniscient and logically he should know that we are not the one who decides the fate. We are restrained to this body, a certain flesh with certain characteristic outside your control. You also forgot to answer my question about sex.
Hah? Micro level? The evil is meaningless to god so there is no such thing as micro or macro. It’s just human perception. What’s bad for human is called evil and what’s good is called good.
Doesn’t delight? So he chose to take the risk over his feeling and he still created it? He has no problem doing that for eternity while he can’t be affected by evil from the very start.
Mr Sanada_10, please be humble and confess that your mind is limited by its size and that you have problems and difficulties grasping truths that are beyond your finite understanding. Don't you know that besides all the laws of the Universe, there are also other laws which you are unaware of? That's the reason why you always jump to the silly and senseless conclusion as stated in your above comment.
Mr Sanada_10, though my beloved Dr Ali Sina believes in the late Dr Albert Einstein's Single Principle underlying the creation, this doesn't mean that he is as stupid as that dead scientist.
I'm confident that my good explanation and proofs about the absolute truth that my loving Creator God is the Master and Sustainer of this marvellous Universe will help him to come to the ultimate realization that our loving Creator God is Love and that He, Who cannot be bound by time and space has made the choice to humble Himself and transcend time and space and became like one of us and be bound by time and space for 33 years, died to redeem those who believe and receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, from destruction and to lead them into eternal life. This is His great salvation plan.
So, Mr Sanada_10, I pray that both you and my dear Dr Ali Sina, will humble yourself today before my beloved Lord Jesus Christ and receive Him as your personal Lord and Saviour, for there is none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved but only the name of Jesus Christ.
Mr Sanada_10, are you sane when you said that I'm a beggar? Don't you know the fact that I'm a Good Samaritan? B)
Right from the beginning of our discussion, I've been emphasizing on your responsiblity and accountability for your words and actions but it seems that you can't swallow your pride and admit this truth at all.
You're looking evilness at the micro level and your understanding is limited but if you look at evilness at the macro level, you'll see and understand why our whole world is dying.
Please be informed that my loving Creator God does not delight in punishment or hell. Kindly be fair to Him.
Your god and the law of universe contradict each other. I've been explaining that all this long.
Grace, you are becoming a beggar now? Begging me to stop instead of answering me? Please give me money… I haven’t eaten for three days … (3 days and still looks fat, wow). Come on, be serious.
The problem I posted is logical but your answer is not. Hm, a rapist? Raping all women in the village? Is that even possible? Unless you are marauding barbarian who attacks village after village you won’t be able to do that. Do you know that god had predicted this before? Before he created the rapist he knew he would become one. Using this specific design he could make the rapist to be better. What we choose depends on our brain, our knowledge and intelligence. God put us in different environment, experiencing different incidents and building us into specific character either good or bad. Do you mean that god is helpless on this one too? Evil won’t enter human heart if the “spice” doesn’t allow it. Look at retarded people, look at mentally defect people, can you say they are capable of evil?
What the rapist had done is not good to the victims but is it bad to god? If god punishes him will it solve the damage suffered by the victims? What will the victims get? How can you create the balanced retribution here?
Grace, Sina’s view is totally different than yours. He view “god” as a principle underlying the creation, not personal god. Sina won’t have the answer I seek. God knows no good or evil. It doesn’t get affected by both it, but we do. The logical conclusion is simple, if god isn’t affected by these 2 things then why should he care?
What I admitted is different to your post. I know there is a law, natural one that is bounding us. When you play with fire you’ll get burn, when you destroy environment you’ll get disaster. That has nothing to do with the “law” of “expelling human” just because they ate fruit in a state of “ignorance” which is a problem itself. I’ve asked you about the purpose of the fruit, the significance of this deed to god, the knowledge of god when it happened etc. Does god belong to a certain law he can’t escape from?
Hah? Sina doesn’t believe personal god and that’s the very reason he’s incompatible with this problem. Don’t you get it? Why do you use insult again eh? Dumb is not the reason, it’s just your emotion.
:'(
Mr Sanada_10, the reason why I advise you to consult my beloved Dr Ali Sina <3, is because you refused to admit that you have problems understanding matters relating to laws of this Universe and the consequences of breaking such laws. Yes, even though my dear Dr Ali Sina :* doesn't believe in a personal God yet, this doesn't means that he is as dumb as you. I strongly believe that his mindset will be totally transformed by all my truthful comments here regarding the Way, the Truth and the Life and that he is truly convinced that my loving Creator God is real! xD
Mr Sanada_10, please stop deceiving yourself any further with your own senseless, illogical and irresponsible excuses. Can a rapist tell a judge that my loving Creator God made him like this, after he raped all the women in the village? I've explained to you umpteen times here that God created us to be free moral beings and regarded us as friends and gave us a free moral will and the world we live in is governed by laws so that there is law and order in the world. So, you are responsible for breaking any laws. I hope that you will come to your senses and realized the ultimate truth! 🙂
If that's the case then why don't delete most of the comments here. Also, there are other unrelated comments in other articles. This Agracean wants it to be here. Can you ask sina's lover too? <3
So, you can't solve this problem and tell me to humble, eh? Does being humble can answer this one?
As I recall, Sina doesn't believe in personal god so asking him will just make you look bad.
Didn't you pay attention to my post earlier. Who did make me? Who knew my future? Who designed me like that?
Well, you may be right that it's universal enough to stay in comments on this site, but this article is on Marrying a Muslim Man. It would be more appropriate in "Does God Exist". I could start a comment thread over there but then it would be separated from our earlier comments.
Mr Sanada_10, please humble yourself and ask my beloved Dr Ali Sina, if I'm telling you the truth. I believe that with Dr Ali Sina's wealth of knowledge and IQ, he's able to advise you on matters relating to laws of this Universe, etc. 😀
Of course, Mr dumb Atheist, Sanada_10, you're responsible for sleeping with your best friend's wife! Why push all the blame to your beloved parents for your uncontrolled impulsive sex acts and wild passion? Please go and ask your parents if it's right for you to blame them for giving birth to a man like you after you had sex with your best friend's wife and then, we'll discuss further. 😉
Mr Sanada_10, if you really do understand the law of the Universe, this means that you should begrasp the reality that my loving Creator God is real and He alone is the Master of the Universe because no creature here below or in the heavens above dare to claim ownership of this marvellous Universe! B)
I understand the law of universe, not your god's. Stick to reality, please.
Ah, so where did evil of my heart come from? Was it from me? So, I created evil now? Let’s see, since god had already known this act before I was born then I couldn’t be blamed. I didn’t design my body to be like this, I didn’t make it to be reacted like that. God made this.
Mr Sanada_10, if you truly understand the meaning of laws and the consequences of breaking a law, then, you should be able to know that my loving Creator God is real!
Wait, grace. You can’t just put the unproven belief into a place called fact. Yes, I know your god claimed that but I’m testing it now. It turns out that you can’t handle my questions.
Yes, how many times I must tell you that you’re just repeating those words without reading the problem I presented in that very post of yours.
Let's imagine that your best friend invited you to his luxurious villa for a short vacation and you, a bachelor, accepted his invitation. Now, he has a very kind, beautiful and intelligent wife and for the very first time when your best friend introduced you to her, you're awe struck and it was love at first sight. You couldn't take your eyes off her all the time in every meeting and you begin to conceive evil in your heart.
One day, your best friend has to attend a full day seminar in the city and he appointed his wife to be your tour guide. You happily agreed and instead of showing you around the villa, both of you ended up in the bed!
So, Mr Sanada_10, do you push all the blame your friend for this evil you have done? Aren't you responsible for all your actions?
Mr Sanada_10, since my loving Creator God revealed that He alone is the Law maker who sets all the laws that govern this marvellous Universe and even, the gravity itself was made by Him. So, it's time for you to stop all your wild speculations and quit Atheism. 🙂
How many times must I tell you that our loving Creator God created angels and us all to be free moral beings endowed with a free moral will to choose to be good or evil, obedient or rebellious and we, including all the angels are responsible and accountable to God for our words, choices and actions?
Grace, it is. The law is fact that we all know but who made it is a subject of speculation and faith. Gravity is fact but belief is not. Know the difference before you accuse me like that. This point is irrelevant when discussing the specific image of god who has several attributes that contradict the law itself if we insist it.
Why did you repeat your own words again? I asked you as to why the evil was created inside Lucifer’s heart? Couldn’t the all powerful and all knowing god stop that? Why did he let it happen? He should know before that when he decided to create Lucifer.
Now I become a person who doesn’t understand a law while from the very start it has nothing to do with this particular discussion, great. Which part that shows that I’m ignorant about it? On the contrary, it is against the law to punish the humans because they were ignorant babies, they didn’t know the good and evil. It is against the law to demand retribution from a weak atom like human, a supreme entity doesn’t need anything.
It's because I didn't sign up there. It needs too much time to stroll on various sites. I just came to the center.
I would be happy to continue this at Freedom Bulwark in private messaging. I couldn't find your user name over there.
Mr Atheist Sanada_10, how can you have the nerve to say that the law governing this universe is out of context? Don't you know that we are part of this vast Universe and we have to abide by all those Universal laws too? You can try asking my beloved Dr Ali Sina and I'm sure that he will certainly agree with me on this!
Well, Mr dumb Atheist, the truth is that my loving Creator God is perfect, loving and good and that's His nature. I've explained umpteen times that God never created evil at all! Evil was conceived in lucifer's heart and then, evil was born as a result when he and one third of the fallen angels staged a coup in Heaven against their loving Creator God! Can you grasp this truth and stop accusing my loving Creator God for evil?
Mr Atheist Sanada_10, I see that you have some problems understanding the meaning of law. Do you actually understand what are instructions, orders, commandments, rules, regulations, conditions and laws? Let me provide you a good example here, in order to help you understand the fall of man from grace.
Majority of marriages in India are arranged ones and love marriage is a very difficult one here in India. Maybe, that is the reason why I'm still a bachelor!
The law governing this universe is out of context, grace. I was talking about a particular image of “god”, a personal one. If you want to make it universal I suggest you also take good and evil out of this “law maker” since it doesn’t need both of these.
Eating fruit and knowing good and evil don't have anything to do with violation of the law. How can this little incident affect universe? Do you forget that Adam and Eve couldn't be blame for this because they knew nothing of good and evil. It's like you punished a baby.
Huh? I didn’t blame the real “god” here. I just raised question to your version. I did mention that, didn’t I? You didn’t pay attention again, grace.
As I’ve told you that god is the source of all things so using common sense extracted from this concept held by believers, we can conclude that evil itself made by god. Respect our choice won’t solve the problem, you know coz he can know everything. He knew the choices, he made it that way.
Now, it’s Lucifer who created evil and here, John said it is not created. So, since Lucifer created evil then who did create Lucifer? This applies to Adam and Eve too since you fails to answer my question before. Did god know about it? Why didn’t he prevent it? Why did he even make it possible? Why did he create that “fruit”? What is the use of that fruit in the first place? To whom it was made for?.
Don't you know that there are laws governing this entire Universe? So, based on this universal truth, there must be also spiritual laws governing the unseen world. On planet earth, we have so many laws and a single violation of such laws could spell disaster. Take a good look at the recent Japan's nuclear reactor plant and you'll know how serious is the radiation disaster if rules and regulations are not properly adhered to. Similarly, sin, wickedness, sickness and death are the results of Adam and Eve's violation of God's perfect spiritual and universal law.
Dear, oh, dear, it's here. Look at the last position we have. You memory is amazing. :p
Mr Sanada_10, I've repeated myself so many times that all free moral beings are fully responsible for their words and actions and stop pushing the blame and evil to my loving Creator God, for the blatant truth is that He did not create evil in the first place at all! He created all the Heavenly angels and human beings and He loves all of us as friends and He respect our choices.
Don't you know that it was lucifer and one third of the angels who created evil in the first place and they are responsible for it. When Adam and Eve sinned against my loving Creator God and chose to believe and follow satan's lies, they know not the consequences of their choice and actions inadvertently opened the floodgate of sin and as a result, death ad all kinds of evilness we could ever imagine of became rampant on planet earth since then.
Mr Atheist Sanada_10, please behaved like a gentleman and tell me where are your questions?
Don't repeat it since I've countered that with my questions. Read about the risk and purpose including his ability. Don't blame me, I'm just rehearsing John's post. xD
Mr Sanada_10, I thought that I've explained very clearly about your queries that we are free moral beings endowed with a free will and a good conscience to know that my loving Creator God exists and that we have the free moral choice to choose life or death. 😉
Bring that to auntie and see her response. I think she needs it more. Anyway, my question is universal so it applies to Islam too.
Maybe muslim here can give me some opinions?
So, free will is a loose thing. It doesn’t have any creator thus making it as “god” too since it actually can create evil in human/angel hearts. In here we got 2 situations:
1. Evil is immortal, unborn and cannot be control by anyone, not even god
2. Omniscient god should at least know what evil can do to human before he decide to create it. Why did he still do it?
Since god is all knowing can we call him all powerful, almighty, or omnipotent? With his nemesis evil, this title is somewhat absurd.
Time doesn’t matter because it only affects human so the relativity of time in Bible and Quran creates another problem but that’s not the major issue. The decision by god is the one that should be dealt with. What did he really want to do knowing all of these results? He surely would know that not every human can live through it. He also made it unfair since he created disease and killed babies or children. Even fate can be different. At one hand, there is a person who is miserable from birth and at the other hand there is a person who has a very few problems and always live happily. One person is inflicted with disease and another is not.
So, he created body but not intelligence? Without the sufficient body the intelligence won’t even there in the first place. He must creates at least a body which can make the intelligence works and he should know that with certain amount of “body structure” can make “certain intelligence” and “decision” happen including its result. Why then he created human with low intelligence? It gets so low until you cannot call it that way anymore? Why then he created someone so intelligent until that someone create evil with it?
You answer is similar to grace about love but actually there is another question arises from this and grace didn’t want to answer. With his power, he could calculate the result and knew that many humans would actually end up in hell either earthly or “heavenly”. Why did he take this risk over the feeling of “wanting to share”? Did he need someone else to know what he knew, without comparing the difference between him and the creation? He couldn’t get affected by evil nor could tame it so why did it? What is the point of sharing it if the risk is far greater than this? If he wants to “train” human then what is the significance of “trained” human to him? With god alone, evil was no problem, so why created it?
Ah, so heaven and hell is relative too and many interpretations can be made out of it, too bad narcissist and power hungry people used it to satisfy their needs. You talked about spirit prison to cleanse sins of humans. It means that Muhammad will not be cleaned too and in the end not saved? What is the limit of the evil here?
Which creature? Ehm, John K?
Come on, grace, at least look at who I was talking to. I posted according to the argument presented to me. As for you, you haven’t answered my queries so I suggest you read again.
Well, we had better kill this thread before we get another one of these:
Ali Sina wrote: "This site is about Islam. Please take your discussion on Hinduims to a Hindu forum. I don't want to divert the attention of the readers to any other subject than the scope of this site."
Anyone who wants to continue this discussion is welcome to contact me in PM at Freedom Bulwark.
"Who are these heavenly parents of ours, who created our spirits? Who created these heavenly parents?"
“As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.” – Joseph Smith.
Some consider it a non-maintainstream belief, but it has both biblical and mainstream precedent:
http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/1…
"This is utter nonsense."
Because?
"What is your proof?"
One of the foundational verses is here: Abraham 3:22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
"It is purely your assumption."
Doctrine and Covenants 93:29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
"Then who created the evil?"
Evil is evil. It exists just like light, gravity, and good.
"Why not God created us perfect so we would not come into this world?"
Everything valuable that you have learned has come from your own experience, not from a book.
"What is our business whether to manage this world or oppose evil and improve ourselves?"
Look around you. It is obvious many opt out of this program.
"All your points illogical and stupid beliefs arising out of your blind faith in the existence of a Biblical personal god."
Because?
Ad hominem is a sign of your insecurity of the strength of your position.
That's good thinking. It is outside God's domain to give free will. He can only respect free will, not override it. People who have lived under oppressive attempts to subjugate their free will report that others can only hurt their bodies, but cannot do anything about their mind. Holocaust victims give us books like "Man's Search for Meaning" and "The Diary of Anne Frank".
Free will and choice, and the existence of evil do not affect omniscience. We now have software predictive tools that are very effective against the Taliban. It is not hard to extrapolate that to 100% accuracy for an infinite being.
I also saw an interview with the mathematician and intellecual, David Berlinski, where he said that some scientists have tried to look to the other side of the math on the Big Bang and have found that there was not even space or time. That is interesting in terms of verses like, "time only is measured unto men", which implies that omniscience into the past and future may be as easy to God as spinning a basketball in our hands is for us to see all sides of the ball.
So on your question about why God created humans and the issue of evil in humans, the answer is again related to the idea that he created us physically, but did not create our intelligence, which is co-eternal with him. Intelligences who consented to God's proposed plan have entered into this process of obtaining a physical body for the opportunity to grow and progress. It is also a time for people to learn choose the good over evil, and to learn about the nature of evil and how to confront and control it. His respect for free will prevents him from overriding the evil choices of some of his children.
It's not about God needing to create something to satisfy himself. It is about love and sharing a path to progress that he has followed himself.
Heaven and Hell is a complex subject that requires a survey of several passages to learn exactly what is and isn't taught about them and the nature of life there.
The Old and New Testaments speak of a temporary spirit realm divided into Paradise and Prison [Hell] where the righteous and wicked are segregated while awaiting the Resurrection. The verses concerning the fires of hell are suggested to be of a figurative nature in Mosiah 2:28, saying that the anguish is like a fire, rather than is a fire:
"Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever."
But on the eternal Heaven and Hell we are told that Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn the world, and that at the Second Coming, "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ". So it is presumed that all but the most incorrigible evil like bin Laden and Hitler will repent after suffering their time in spirit prison and will in the end earn an inheritance in heaven.
The disparity of fairness in being awarded admittance to heaven for both those who have chosen good all their lives and those who changed only after making many bad decisions is balanced by Jesus' saying that in his Father's house are many mansions, which is clarified by Paul in saying that there are three primary degrees of glory in heaven, which he compares to the brightness of the sun, moon and stars in the way they differ in glory.
He wanted to achieve what you and I want to achieve in raising our children: people who can function in the world, make right choices, and oppose evil.
David Berlinski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyxUwaq00Rc
Mr Atheist Sanada_10, which creature in this world told you that my loving Creator God can't do a thing about evil and that He is not omniscience? You should be grateful for the fact that my loving Creator God is forgiving, merciful and gracious to us. If He were to act according to His Godly principles and perfect standards, we would all perish!
Yes, my perfect loving Creator God has the absolute power and all authority to destroy and eliminate every evil at its root but because of the fact that He is Love, that's why He has provided a salvation plan to save sinners like us from sharing the same fate with those rebellious wicked demons, by providing us His one and only begotten Son, Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God which was slain from the foundation of the earth, to be our sin bearer, Lord and Saviour.
John,
"The account of the creation in Genesis is told twice because there was first a spiritual creation and then a physical creation."
It is your belief that cannot be proven.
"We are called the spirit children of God because our heavenly parents created our spirit bodies."
Who are these heavenly parents of ours, who created our spirits? Who created these heavenly parents?
"Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father because he is the only one of God's children whose physical body was also descended from his Heavenly Father in addition to his spirit body."
This is utter nonsense.
"But we also existed as intelligences before our spirit birth just as we existed as spirit children of God before our physical birth."
What is your proof?
"Just as we know matter cannot be created or destroyed, but rather transformed, similarly intelligences cannot be created or destroyed, but have co-existed eternally with God."
It is purely your assumption.
"God's plan is a plan of progress and growth. In our pre-mortal existence he was able to teach us about evil, but the time came for us to come to earth on our own to learn to oppose evil on our own."
So God could not create us perfect and we have to come to earth in physical form to oppose evil on our own. Then who created the evil? Why should God teach us during our spiritual existence to oppose evil instead of destroying evil once and for all if he is omniscient?
"A similar argument is made that God should intervene in natural disasters, but, again, being sent here to grow and develop, we are intended to learn to overcome challenges on our own."
Why the heck in the hell should we be sent to this physical world to overcome challenge on our own? Why not God created us perfect so we would not come into this world?
"There would not be much of an opportunity for growth and learning to manage the earth on our own if God intervened every time something needed to be taken care of. That is our business."
Are we here to manage this earth or to learn to oppose evil on our own, develop and grow as you said earlier. What is our business whether to manage this world or oppose evil and improve ourselves?
All your points illogical and stupid beliefs arising out of your blind faith in the existence of a Biblical personal god.
Since god can’t do a thing about evil that means he is not omniscient and his ability to read the future can’t cover anything when evil is involved. This is contrast with the nick human gave to god, the all knowing one. Evil affects anything that lives so he actually cannot know any fate about living creature.
Reading your post, I conclude that god didn’t give human free will at all. It’s outside his domain to do that.
My main problem is the creation of human and sin. Since he knew that he couldn’t control evil then why did he create human in the first place. Is the presence of human necessary to him? Is the punishment of hell equals to the sin human makes? Even if he cannot know what evil is doing, at least he can see the risk when he created human and provide better plan.
God wanted human to overcome challenges but for what? Is it to please his desire, to play some game with it? He should aware that not every human can take it. He designed humans with different ability, condition and put them in different environment, even kills them at birth. Can’t say this is fair if he wants to test humans. Don’t tell me this is not his domain too.
God wanted human to oppose evil but at the same time couldn’t do anything about it. Why create humans in the first place? Why making them eternal in paradise or hell? What did he want to achieve with “human who can oppose evil”?
Mr Mormon John K, you said, "God's plan is a plan of progress and growth. In our pre-mortal existence he was able to teach us about evil, but the time came for us to come to earth on our own to learn to oppose evil on our own."
I wonder are you really that dumb, Mr Mormon scientist John K? No wonder Dr Albert Einstein exclaimed that all scientists, including him, are dumb creatures! You certainly fit his description of a dummy! LOL.
Please tell me honestly, Mr Mormon John K, does it makes sense to you that my loving Creator God teaches us about evil in our 'pre-mortal' existence? If what you said in the above is correct, does it mean to say that every baby is able to grasp what is good and evil at birth and oppose evil on his/her own?
Mr Mormon John k, it's time to stop living satan's lies and come to the Way, the Truth and the Life. Where in the KJV Bible did my loving Creator God ever reveal unto us your this Mormon fiction? "But we also existed as intelligences before our spirit birth just as we existed as spirit children of God before our physical birth. Just as we know matter cannot be created or destroyed, but rather transformed, similarly intelligences cannot be created or destroyed, but have co-existed eternally with God. It is useful to extend the analogy to say that intelligences also can only be transformed as their is a transformation of sorts first when it is born into a spirit body and again when the spirit is born into a physical body."
Do you have any idea in the first place where human intelligence came from? How in this troublesome world can you compare matter to intelligence? This goes to show that you know not that you believe in a pack of lies, concorted by Joseph Smith.
So, please tell me the truth, where in the KJV Bible did God specifically reveal that we are called the spirit children of God because our heavenly parents created our spirit bodies? If you still remain as stubborn as a mule and insist that there's nothing wrong with your brain, then, please humble your good self and consult that professional psychologist, Dr Ali Sina. I believe that a sane professional psychiatrist like my beloved Dr Ali Sina, will not fail me and tell lies here!
Mr Mormon John K, when will you come to your good senses and know that Joseph Smith is a false prophet? I couldn't believe my good eyes when I read about your above Mormonic accounts of 'heavenly parents' and 'spiritual creation'. How in the world can a 'smart' scientist like you believe in this Mormon fiction? No wonder Mormonism is a cult, teaching all kinds of wierd and funny doctrines which are all lies invented by Joseph Smith!
Firstly, let me knock some good sense into your Mormon head and proved you wrong of this silly Mormon fiction . You said that the account of the creation in Genesis is told twice because there was first a spiritual creation and then a physical creation. Nonsense! Come on, braindead Mormon! The first account of the creation of man was an overview and summary of the whole creation account. The second account of the creation of man was a detailed account of how God created Adam and Eve.
Trying to determine what Christianity says on a subject is somewhat of a moving target since there are so many denominations that interpret things differently. Sometimes the disagreement is caused by ambiguity in the text, and other times it is caused by the parties to the discussion not familiarizing themselves with the available evidence in the text.
The dilemma of omniscience and free will as it is generally stated includes the assumption that God created beings that can choose evil when he could have created perfect beings that cannot choose evil.
The account of the creation in Genesis is told twice because there was first a spiritual creation and then a physical creation. We are called the spirit children of God because our heavenly parents created our spirit bodies. Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father because he is the only one of God's children whose physical body was also descended from his Heavenly Father in addition to his spirit body.
But we also existed as intelligences before our spirit birth just as we existed as spirit children of God before our physical birth. Just as we know matter cannot be created or destroyed, but rather transformed, similarly intelligences cannot be created or destroyed, but have co-existed eternally with God. It is useful to extend the analogy to say that intelligences also can only be transformed as their is a transformation of sorts first when it is born into a spirit body and again when the spirit is born into a physical body.
God's plan is a plan of progress and growth. In our pre-mortal existence he was able to teach us about evil, but the time came for us to come to earth on our own to learn to oppose evil on our own.
A similar argument is made that God should intervene in natural disasters, but, again, being sent here to grow and develop, we are intended to learn to overcome challenges on our own. There would not be much of an opportunity for growth and learning to manage the earth on our own if God intervened every time something needed to be taken care of. That is our business.
Mind blowing attitude and comment. I like that. I sincerely respect women like yourself who more than anything else believe in themselves.
My sincere regards to you Susanne.
"The idea of perfect womanhood is perfect independence.
Who makes us ignorant? We ourselves.
We put our hands over our eyes and weep that it is dark.
Tell the truth boldly, whether it hurts or not.
Never pander to weakness, if truth is too much for intelligent people and sweeps them away
Let them go, the sooner the better" – Swami Vivekanand (India)
Stop looking for excuses – you have your children to think of. Get up and walk away. It is easy. It is just irrational fear that keeps you at home. Take your kids when he is at work and go to your family. Tell him to sod off! Tell him it is over and to divorce you. And the day that happens, raise a glass to the heavens and praise God.
What a load of rubbish. Do you actually believe this? Where did all the multiple wives come from that men married if they murdered girls at birth? Did they get resurected by some miracle??? Where do people leave their brains when it comes to religion?? Mad Mohammed had a child by one of his slaves – Ibrahim – he died at 18 months. OH, you did not know that Mohammed raped his slaves? If there is a God and retribution, then this is it. None of his dozen wives and concubines (none were murdered at birth ..) had any children, God wanted the truth to be known that not only was he a rapist, a murderer and a paedophile, he, as God's messenger, also dealt in human misery – he had many slaves and concubines. Nice guy! Not culture honey, just facts. Straight out of your war manual. Sick!!
How on earth do you allow a man to do this to you? My husband is muslim and I am an atheist. My husband knows better than to try and shove his religious bigotry down my throat. He prays 5x a day and I play music 5x – same time! Stand up for yourself. Sorry ladies, but I run out of patience when you girls play the victim. Stand up to him, grow some backbone. I have had raging arguments with imams, why should I fear my husband? I think I'll pour myself a glass of wine!
I did do it rationally and you responded irrationally. Now, I am the one who cannot answer the question? Since when do you answer my problem about that “love” in god’s mind? I’ve given you questions about it and you just didn’t answer it. If he loved humans then why did he let evil exist, create hell (and on earth), afflict innocent humans with diseases or designed us such a way like we are now? Statement alone doesn’t prove anything.
Pot never asks the potter because it cannot ask. It has nothing to do with god anyway. Your god didn’t intervene because he’s planning something. He knew this incident even before he created Eve,
Not only avoiding my legitimate questions you just attacked me again. So, at the beginning, he never intended too but circumstance demanded him to do it. Questions arise then:
1. Couldn’t he predict the future?
2. Could he burn human in hell eternally and stay calm about it?
3. Why did he even create these places? Human sins are limited.
4. There is something outside his control? Free will is outside his knowledge? Who controls it? Where did it come from?
Oh, please. Save the mythical story and think rationally. Was there any chance at all for the angels to win against him? Surely the angels were not stupid enough to challenge him, the creator of all things, not to mention without him knowing it? Rebellion is nonsense in the eye of omniscient god. If he can be displaced then he is not all powerful and he is not the creator. It's a limited and small mistake, plus he knew about it.
Quick note for you about Eve:
1. God was aware but stayed silence.
2. God was supposed to know this before he gave the free will
3. Eve was ignorant to good and evil so she didn’t have the moral compass to judge
This is a huge problem. God was intentionally doing all of these. He knew that free will would make Eve like this, added with her ignorance. Worse part, he just sat there and watched the snake doing his “duty”. After the inevitable happened, he came out and pretending not to know what had happened and got angry. Sounds right?
Er, you are evading my question about the risk. God should know that hell is 100% going to be inhabited by humans who reject/ignore/don’t know about him. All of these came from free will he gave. So, he gladly chose this over his feeling.
I’m not talking about the event after that, remember? I talk about the reason he choose this method. Why didn’t he make it disappear? Why chose this complex way?
Since you cannot address me you chose to personally attack me again and accused me of complaining. I’m just stating what’s already happened according to rationality, grace. Positive mind needs reason and must not blind, otherwise we will arrive at wrong conclusion. There are many people who can think positive while doing negative thinking that as positive, know what I mean?
Why do you keep repeating that “love and friendship”? I’ve already shown you the problem in it with questions but you chose not to answer it. Is this your limit? When you don’t know something you just push it hard.
I know the reason you presented about god’s inability to see robot in human flesh and I’ve pointed the problem too. God should not be affected by these feeling and continued to create balance between robot and free will (as if there is true freedom). On the other hand, he didn’t care about bigger risk he’s taking when he did this and chose his feeling. Why did he even have that? Did he need it? Couldn’t he think rationally?
Like I told you, friends don’t create my feeling and they are not god plus we need each other. Love and friendship exist because we use it to our advantage, a mutual benefit. With god’s power, my dislike will easily be dealt with. He could make it the opposite. Why did he even create my dislike? Is it absolute?
Be my guest. :$
Mr Sanada_10, please be rational and stop ranting that my questions are irrelevant when the fact is that you cannot answer my good and logical questions at all because you cannot accept the fact that my loving Creator God loves an Atheist like you very much although you turn your back against Him all the time.
Yes, my loving Creator God knew about satan approaching Eve but do you know why He didn't intervene. Please read the book of Genesis, which is the first book of the Bible for the absolute answer. By the way, isn't it true that you have never seen a pot asking the potter why you made me like this? So, why not accept the fact that the potter is greater than the pot?
Mr Sanada_10, please be informed that in the beginning, my loving Creator God has never intended to create hell at all. Hell was created for satan and all those fallen angels that staged a great rebellion against my loving Creator God in the highest Heaven. It was not a limited mistake but an intended choice made by all those demons to usurp my loving Creator God's throne in the highest Heaven.
God allowed satan to seduce Eve because satan is a free moral being like you and he has a free will and he is free to do whatever he wish but at the same time, he is aware that he is accountable to my loving Creator God for all his words and actions.
What makes you think that God chooses His own strange feelings and has no thoughts for human's future? The price that He paid to redeem your soul from hell speaks of His love for humanity. You are absolutely wrong to say that friendship is limited to human and not God. Lord Jesus Christ has fulfilled the Golden Rule, when He suffered and died on the cross at Calvary for all His friends!
Mr Sanada_10, you are just another typical horrible Atheist complain king in the world. May I encourage you to change for the better and be positive. Stop complaining and be rational and think rationally and you will be a rational being like me. xD
Haven't I repeated so many times that God created you to be a free moral being because He love you very much and regarded you as His friend. He treat you like a friend and not like a robotic creature with no feelings or passion at all. He respect your free will and choices like a friend.
Come on, let me knock some sense into your coconut head. Do you like your friend to love and respect your choice and wish? Or do you like your friend to fully control your thoughts, words and actions and that you have no freedom and space to breathe at all?
"put yourself in a robot's shoes….programmed to work till you drop dead"
WALL-E ….
"When shown wrong, you don’t want to accept it"
Umm… where else have I seen this behavior? 😮
"you cannot answer the gap between omniscience and free will"
woo hoo !!! I can! I can! Call on me teacher!!! B)
It's an empty claim and contradicts reality. If he truly loved you then why did he let this happen? Why did he insert free will and not reduce it? Why did he create hell for a limited mistake? Why did he allow satan to seduce Eve? Why did he choose his own strange feeling than human's future? etc.
Friendship and love belong to human, not god. It's there because we need it. How many times do I have to repeat it? My 2 questions above relate this and you chose to ignore it.
o.0o.0
A lot, dementia, fool, dumb, etc which has nothing to do with the discussion. The one that often forget something is you, ex: my proposal and my warning. As for me, I never forget anything in this discussion because I refute all your so called answer, a repetitive one. Tell me, you forgot about my question when god knew about satan approaching Eve? Thanks to you? Pity is the correct one. I pity you coz you have nothing but you act like you have something.
My opinion? Not so. It's logical advise because I've proven that the decision god had is worse than mine for the whole. You don't just shrug legitimate point you can't answer with just calling it "opinion". How about I do that too?
Pot and the potter is irrelevant question like the parents. I did explain the difference. Ah, short memory is playing again.
That means you couldn’t answer my problem with “free will” and decided to give it away. You never answer my problem correctly. All you can do is pushing your own belief into others. When shown wrong, you don’t want to accept it and choose to repeat it again.
Human rights is man made, grace. So far, you cannot answer the gap between omniscience and free will. Personal attack and self praising is not going to solve this difficulty. Your static answer is already refuted by me and now, I’m waiting you to answer the refutation, not repeating your old words.
Am I jealous? No, it was you who brought that matter into this discussion. I just played along. I did warn you about this, didn’t I? Btw, are you in separate beds now, since you need me to do this? Aren't you the closest person here to him?
I’m not denying anything here. I just want to know the answer beyond this problem I presented. As I’ve given you, all things whether good or bad was already decided and known by god long ago. Beside, god has no problem giving humans hell on earth, hasn’t he? There are plenty of examples including innocent humans like baby or children
I’m opening your view here, not complaining.
Mr Sanada_10, stop denying the fact that you are always blaming my loving Creator God for your unhappiness over granting you human rights and free will to be responsible and accountable to Him for your life on planet earth! Grow up, my dear Mr Atheist Sanada_10 pet calf! Stop complaining and start to humble yourself before Jesus today and ask Him to help your unbelief, for He loves you. 🙂
Mr Sanada_10, God is Love. That answers all your above questions. Period. It's because you are confused and are not confident of your answers, that's why out of love, I suggested that you should humble yourself and seek my beloved Dr Ali Sina's advice here. As for your last paragraph, I suggest that you go and think about what friendship is all about and how do you love and respect your friends.
Mr Sanada_10, what personal attack? It's true that you are forgetful all the time, that's why I suspect that you are suffering from Dementia. I think that you should have the courtesy to thank me for my kind reminder. 😉
Like what I've repeated so many times here, you are full of your own opinions of God should do this or do that. Mind you, that's merely your opinions afterall while others could have their own preferences too. I've asked you before if you have ever seen a pot asked the potter why you made me like this?
Mr Sanada_10, the main reason why I ask you to check the facts with my beloved Dr Ali Sina is because you just simply cannot grasp the meaning and qualities of a free moral being and a free will, after I've tried to explain so many times here. If you can understand the true meaning of human rights, then, you should have no problem understanding why my loving Creator God created us to be free moral beings with that free moral choice or free will. It looks like you're too dumb to understand my good explanations here, so kindly humble yourself and seek my dear Dr Ali Sina for his good advice. I believe that he is able to knock some good sense into your Atheistic head. Are you jealous of my love for Dr Ali Sina? Why are you so interested in our love matters?xD
Mr Sanada_10, I'm really glad to read that an Atheist like finally admit the fact that you have a heart which was created by my loving Creator God. So, afterall, you are a created being. 😛
Oh, no grace, I am a human and have heart. That what a human means, observing, analyzing, and refuting. Robot cannot do that.
Ah, personal attack again.
So, if a cornered person like you, saying that I am suffering from dementia that means you are right? How about your own short memory or your abusive post or your over imagined things or your illogical passion with your hero? Maybe all people with dementia on this earth should consult to you, o doctor grace? Btw, do you bribe people to earn your title, doctor?
I remember that you don’t understand what I was talking about. Robot feels nothing so there is no need to sympathize to it. If god seriously wanted to do what you think he wanted to do, he should take this path or reduce the “free” on the “will” so that it cannot be out of control like now. Balancing the creation, I should say.
You urged that god wanted to be loved so he created humans who can love him. Questions arise:
1. Does god need love? If yes then why?
2. Does god calculate the ability to love and rebel correctly so that his creations can arrive with better fate as a whole?
Why are you diverting to others here? Not so confident anymore?
I cannot put my shoes in robot because robot cannot think that way. I’m amazed by your inability to compare things here. If I was a robot I wouldn’t even think about it because I couldn’t and didn’t have the ability. If robot “dies” just build a new one. Strange, if god was so concern about the feeling of human, that means he chose this over the bigger risk I’ve been mentioned earlier. Is this even a good concern for the whole?
Question is, why should god care? He can erase and created many times and your feeling is made by him anyway. It’s like your feeling is absolute which is odd.
😮
Strange, my life has nothing to do with discussion. Are you positioning yourself as a wife now and think that all wives will act and react like you? Maybe your hero will have no tolerance about your misappropriate manner and divorce you right away. Ops, don’t start coz it’s starting to stray away from the path.
My attitude towards women has nothing to do with this discussion. My problem is with a concept, an image that many people have, either male or female. Gender has nothing to do with it.
The problem with “free will” is that this very concept contradicts the omniscience of god. If god is A then he can’t be B and vice versa. It takes a god with a weakness to make a free will as a real deal. I’ve been explaining this all this time.
I have my own reasoning and Sina is not in the discussion nor this topic interest him than Islam. What about you? Can check that for me? You are his "wife", aren’t you? Don’t tell me you have separate beds now?
<3
Why do you assume too much? I never blame the "real god" because it cannot be blamed anyway. So, you understand the responsibility? How about god's when he made all the designs and choices? He was aware, remember?
Oh, so now I’m a robot but human at the same time and I was accidental coz god is ignorant on my presence. Is this omniscient? Is this even fact?
I don’t care about who “made” me nor the “real god” whatever it is. What I care is the legitimacy of your version. You know, every time I deliver a blow to an opponent, he/she always talk irrelevant thing.
Mr robot Sanada_10, I think that your Atheist programmer has to rewire your brain setup so that we can faster end all this unnecessary confusions and repetitions here. I've already explained it so cleary in my earlier comments that an Atheist like you doesn't admit the fact that you are the workmanship of God and therefore, you are an accidental robot which appears out of nowhere but has human qualities and even a heart and conscience which are created by my loving Creator God!
See, Mr Atheist Sanada_10, you did it again and again. Anyhow blame my loving Creator God for your words and actions. Do you really understand what responsiblity means? Please don't push the blame to my loving Creaotr God for your own stupidity.
Mr Sanada_10, I wonder how old are you this year? Are you married? I sorta admire your wife's patience for tolerating you all these years. If you are still single, maybe it'll do you good to be reasonable, kind and most importantly, to behave like a gentleman towards all women, so that you'll not be like an antique left in the attic forever. 😉
Come on, Mr Sanada_10, do you understand what is the meaning of free moral beings and free will at all? I doubt so. Why do you always like to blame my loving Creator God for your ignorance and stupidity? Please humble yourself and check with my beloved Dr Ali Sina what's the meaning and also, the traits and requirements of a free moral being. I strongly believe that my dear Dr Ali Sina will be most delighted to provide you with the reasonable and correct answers. 🙂
As the popular political and national security doctrine says, "Trust but verify".
Isn't it true that you, my dear Atheist, Mr Sanada_10, is indeed a robot with only a brain as per your confession and no human heart at all? 🙂
Mr Sanada_10, let me repeat again, to remind you that you are indeed suffering from dementia and I've to always repeat my points here again and again. Can you remember that an Atheist like you did confess that humans create robots to serve their purposes? So, it's true that humans create robots(artificial intelligent beings) with no heart and a conscience and love for its creator/master at all. Why? If you are interested to know the answer from an atheist point of view, please check with my dear Mr Jonathan Harrel who should be able to explain why is it so.
Anyway, please put yourself in a robot's shoes and ask yourself this question. How would you feel if you know that you are a robot created by a man, to collect all kinds of shit day and night without a single day of rest and he has no kindness or love towards you at all and he doesn't care a shit about your welfare and that you are programmed to work till you drop dead. Do you like it this way? Now, don't you think that you should humble yourself and apologise to my loving Creator God, for all your false accusations against Him?
Don’t turn your own attitude into me. The fact that you are missing my point is clear. You failed to answer it correctly, like the one when the satan approached Eve. Don’t blame me if you can’t go out from your own box. All I do is pointing the fact and logic.
God has done no wrong? That’s not the point. It’s the deed he’d done that matters not judgment. He is god after all so no one can actually judge him. I am not negative I just show you the fact. With god’s ability no one can guess what he has in mind so assumption like yours is no answer.
I don’t ask his right since god can do anything without anyone’s permission including evil. So, the politician says that I can’t judge him because he is too powerful and can do whatever he likes. If he wants to commit evil he can, can’t he? No one can judge him after all.
That's it?
Mr Sanada_10, please be reasonable and humble and don't anyhow accused me of missing your points when you're the one who cannot think outside your Atheistic square box. Have you ever seen a clay ask the potter why you made me like this? So, don't you think that you are always negative and complaining bad about my loving Creator God, when in reality, He has done nothing wrong at all.
Do you know what is human right? Perhaps you'll like to check with my beloved Dr Ali Sina what is human right all about and the purpose of it. If you can agree and advocate this fundamental truth, that means that even animals should have their rights too, right? How about my loving Creator God? Surely the Master of the Universe don't need to seek your approval first for His absolute rights to create human beings to be His friends! Who are you to judge my loving Creator God when you can't even save yourself from your sins?
No wonder my dear Atheist Mr Sanada_10 is a robot.
Love comes from human brain
Then he should do it better and not taking risk he knew would happen. The problem here is the feeling of god. How could god feel that making human as robot would be bad for his own “conscience”? Was he limited to certain moral code that he himself cannot free from it?
Every time you write you keep missing my point. It’s very simple. With all his ability to know everything, why did he choose to create human and put the “free will” that can actually be the demise he certainly didn’t like (or did he?). Was his sympathy toward robotic human bigger than burning human in hell? It’s like he has difficulty dealing with himself rather than human.
Human has purpose but does god have it? Why does he have it in the first place?
Now, you can say that god is different but not long ago you keep comparing god to human.
😉
Oh, he knew that, didn’t he? Don’t forget that it was him who made me do this. This is all his design. I don’t think god has temper, grace. It would be strange to see god losing his mind and getting angry to insignificant creature like human.
I am not accusing you but proving that you cannot follow it by pointing your repeated words. You are reluctant to continue the discussion. Repetition is the last weapon when people are cornered. what you don't like is my answer and you dismiss that with silly excuse like "not answering".
Ah, creating new comment, eh? I did make statement like that but not using your twisted remade. This is one example of contradiction that you make. Robot has no feeling therefore it cannot reject anything that human want it to do. So, robot cannot refuse human’s order. Robot cannot complain.
Now, you are avoiding the point again. I have no problem with the power of god. What I found strange is his motive. With his power he chose to do all these while he could make things different and better from the very beginning. Since he’s not bound by anything then why did he even want to be bound? Even if he’s bound what can guarantee this is the same with “truly bound”?
Why are you repeating thing here? My problem is that god should have known the risk. He had to balance the desire he wanted and the disaster he inflicted by creating hell from human. If he loved human to the core then why did he create hell. You love your child but you have no problem torturing them. So, I’m lonely and want some friends. I make some creatures that can entertain me but I will burn them if they disobey me. Is this friendship?
Why should I stop it? This is legitimate problem we all face. If god really wants to make humans really happy and safe then why would he let the sin slip? Why would he even create the concept of “sin” as if the sin itself can threaten him? God is supposed to be invincible and nothing can affect him. Not your attitude, sin, or even little rebellion Lucifer once had if you can even call that a rebellion.
What’s wrong with robot, grace? Robot is invented for purpose and it doesn’t feel anything. It cannot complain, be happy, sad etc. It just does its job. You make me think that you are comparing human’s insecure mind with god’s mind. God should know the result if he do that or he could design human that has the tendency to avoid rebellion. It’s still “free will” but limited to good deeds.
Are you saying that god is lonely and want human to be his friend? Taking the risk of burning them all to hell just for his little desire?
That plan of sacrifice can only save Christians. Many people who don’t know or refuse this will burn in hell for that. Why planning this after all? Why not just make it disappear without all this complexity? As if he is bound to a rule outside his control.
You have to get used with critical analysis (god made it too) so that you don’t drop more like your twin here. I’m leveling you up, grace.
And the alien is actually helpless on the scientist's purpose.
Ah, attempting to silence your opponent and warp all problems with one word called “dumb”. Begging me to stop won’t solve my query, grace. Your “answer” is answered and pointed wrong so I suggest you read mine again and try to continue from that, not repeating refuted statement again.
Adam and Eve are perfect in the sense of “ignorance”. The ability to sin is there in the first place. It’s like the lock is already opened and the thief can enter anytime. Just because the thief hasn’t entered doesn’t mean the house is safe (read: perfect).
This is a sinful nature planted from the beginning. In conclusion, I can say that Adam and Eve were already sinful naturally even if they hadn’t done that otherwise they shouldn’t have the ability to break the rule in the first place.
Worshiping is drawing closer? On what way? Subjective feeling? Placebo effect? Worshiping god is a sign of ignorance. People do that because they don’t know their surrounding and need help. If god is truly love you then he shouldn’t even allow satan to approach them.
You need a course in logic to improve your if-then clauses.
Stop taking the name of your beloved hero in vain. He has not participated in this discussion.
Oh, John K, if you have read the Bible more than I do, then, you will agree with me and my beloved Dr Ali Sina and realized that Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith Jr, Brigham Young were actually liars. The fact that you are still buying those liars' stories proves that you did not read and understand the scripture at all!
Come on, John K, act like a man and have the guts to ask Dr Ali Sina if I'm telling the truth or not. Or, could it be true that your testosterone level is not high enough for you to take the courage to approach Dr Ali Sina? Too bad, I'm a lady and my testosterone level is really low but out of good will, I can donate some to you if you need it to help your male ego.
I'm sure I've read it more times than you have. Oh, I forgot. You haven't read it.
A kind-hearted, but ignorant, Christian.
Well, if a scientist received a communication from a powerful alien who said he sowed earth with life millions of years ago, we wouldn't think anything of it. It would depend on his motive for not staying in contact all along. For us it's something like leaving your university classes to work on your own on the PhD thesis without help from the professors, or a teen going away to college and not being able to see the parents until vacation time.
Oh, my dear John K, where is your KJV Bible? Please retrieve it from the ground and start reading from the very first book of the Bible, right to the last book which is the book of Revelation and see for yourself the truth that Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith Jr, Brigham Young and all his successors were liars and they belong to the father of lies. What do you mean by low standard of proof here? Why not humble your good self and consult my beloved Dr Ali Sina for the truth and then, you'll realized that I'm such a kind hearted Christian. 🙂
Mr Sanada_10, I've repeated so many times before that God is omniscience. He knew everything from the beginning to the end and the end from the beginning. That's the main reason why my loving Creator God, Who cannot be bound or limited by time and space itself, chose to humble Himself and condescend to become a human being and became a love sacrifice on that old rugged cross for us, His friends, so that those who believe in Him. may have eternal life. This is His great love salvation plan for mankind.
Mr Sanada_10, please read my earlier comment in which I've explained clearly that because He loves us and made us to be His friend. That's why we are free moral beings with a free moral will because a robot has no feelings for its master.
Mr Atheist Sanada_10, may I know where does love comes from, according to Atheism?
Mr Sanada_10, I'm really tired of all your errorneous critical analysis of me. So, let's stop all this nonsense and get to the heart of the matter. Please think hard. If God didn't make us to be free moral beings and gave us this free moral will, then, we'll all be like robots. But the truth is that the perfect God of the whole universe is a loving Creator God and He is Love. He loves us very muchand doesn't want us to be like a robot but to be His friend . Although He is omniscience and He knew the fall of man, on the other hand, he also knew that He has to humble Himself and be bounded by time and space and become like one of us to suffer and die on our behalf so that we may have eternal life.
Mr Sanada_10, it looks like you are too dumb to grasp my answers. So, let's stop this quarrelsome exchange and get to the heart of the matter. Let me repeat my answers here again. In the beginning, when my loving Creator God created our first parents, Adam and Eve, they are perfect beings and they have a close relationship with their loving Creator God and they often fellowship together in the Garden of Eden. But after the fall of man from grace, human beings became imperfect creatures and are separated from God due to our sinful nature. We worship God because worship draws us closer to God because of this love relationship between a loving Creator God and His sons and daughters.
If someone said, "listen to me equals to listen to god" or "god needs this but do it through me" it would definitely mean just "listen to me only".
Right, which is why I said only God can define himself. Any expression would be limited by human ability. One thing discussed in philosophy class is the ineffability of greatness. It is easy to make movies about future dystopias, but much more difficult to imagine and depict what heaven would be like.
The problem of spiritual exp. is the differing content. People get different "vision" from their supposed "god". This means that in order to show god you shouldn't use human. it would be corrupted and confused, creating division like we see now.
You have proved nothing. You have a low standard of proof.
The sacrifice of Jesus is Christian doctrine and I have an objection about the previous deed of god. The “love” he was showing when he made human like that and brought them to hostile earth where survival is the priority. It’s strange really if you consider this Jewish tradition of sacrificing unrelated subject just to erase other’s fault.
Sincerity is certainly no antidote for delusion. In Comparative Religion you learn that there are elements common to the various religions, but at the same time, there are mutually exclusive elements that mean that they cannot all be right. Yet doubtless all religions have sincere followers. It's probably not fruitful to try to set boundaries to what is and is not sincere, but to simplify it to good and honest people would suffice for purposes of the discussion.
The image of God is flexible in the relative eyes of the beholders, but if there is an absolute God, he would be the only one who can define himself. You wouldn't ask a Muslim to give you a description of Ali Sina, and even an impartial third party could not accurately describe him if he knew nothing about him.
Separating reality from delusion is not an easy task. Classical literature traditions from many cultures include genres of mysticism, including Western literature. Since these are deeply personal experiences, they are difficult to evaluate. So what remains to evaluate is the literature and teachings of the traditions. Some contain absolute nonsense which is easy to disprove, such as Islam and primitive tribal beliefs. For the respected beliefs, all one can do is study them and see if they make sense. Prayer is held out as an answer. Many report having found God by simply praying, "God, if you are out there, let me know". Dr. Sina's book discusses a "God Center" in the brain that is responsible for spiritual experiences. While I agree with what he says about Muhammad's mental disorders, I think it is too cynical to write off all spiritual experiences in people with healthy brains.
Grace, I know Bible, ok? The story in there is the same with other creation story in other faiths. God made all perfect? I disagree with that. Since he decided to give “free will” to human he should aware that this perfection would not last for long. If he truly wanted to do that he should make all humans into robots and programmed them to love each other. It wouldn’t be any rebellion at all. God got his desire and humans are saved from hell, a win-win situation.
Of course, I’m free to do that because the politician has given me the right if you know what I mean and I’ve got all the facts alright, not to mention your belief.
Oh, of course I have something to bring, otherwise I won’t even care to write it. The reason is so strong and factual. You can’t handle it correctly and just giving me useless rhetorical statement. I ask “why” and you should answer “because”, but don’t use belief.
Grace, there is no “beginning” in god. God knows no time. It’s just his decision bundled with his ability that I was asking for. Yes, I’m accusing that image of god. Judging from the ability he has, he ought to know that. Nothing is hidden from god. Nothing is actually and literally free from god. Lucifer’s heart, rebellion, evil etc should have entered his “mind” long before he made the decision when creating one little atom called Lucifer, unless there is something out of reach or intentional from him.
My accusation stands on solid ground here and you are doing a bad defending.
Human beings did rebel because rebellion means resistance. Eve, of course, was deceived in the story but the final decision was from her. She chose to resist god’s command and ate that fruit you call “apple”, not to be confused with eaten apple, a business logo.
It sparks me another question. Since the snake could approach her, I assumed god knew it. He should know what the snake’s thinking, when he went to her or the result from that persuasion. Using his divine mind, he should be able to calculate the flow of Eve’s mind and predict the decision she had. Why didn’t he stop the snake? Or did he pretend not to know about that?
Love is for living creature only. It exists because we need it but it can change. You can no longer love your husband, your friend etc because of various reasons.
Divorce is one example.
I’m not whining, grace. I am asking you legitimate questions. Whining often doesn’t have any point. It’s just an expression of hate, nothing more. The problem with you is that you love to assume many things about your opponent and twist it back to suit your previous wrong statement. It’s very simple, I’m breathing slowly and a little bit of chuckling seeing you behave like this, um, nothing change in my breathing anyway. Your concern should not be on how I breathe but on my points. It’s silly watching you ponder on irrelevant things like this.
Your denial is useless. Your post is full of emotional words and personal attack to your opponents. The example is abundant, it cannot be counted anymore. People here are already expressing that to you, remember? Instead of answering correctly, you chose to attack the person. The reason I wrote this was because your own circling post not your “truth” because your version has problem in it and you don’t want to solve it, just blindly embrace it.
Your “free will” is answered. It is not free after all if I consider the ability of god to be real. This is avoided by you in many occasions. The one that knows the future, read hidden thought etc is god himself and whatever decision Lucifer or me is having had already known to him long time ago. It’s like a program and you know all about it. It’s a classic question, if god knew what would happen if he planted the “free will” then why did he still do it and keep doing it until now? Was it intentional?
I don’t suffer from dementia. It’s just your ego here playing around just to feel better. As I recall, it is you who has problem with memory (ex: my proposal). Are you sure, you are not the one?
God's image is flexible then. The problem is located on how do you define "sincere". How do you separate it from delusion. This is the crux of the matter.
Funny, it was you who failed to grasp it since you didn’t answer it directly and went on circling around repeating the same refuted arguments over and over again. The problem I’ve raised is logically refuting your own statement on this one. The only thing you could do is to repeat it again. I’m familiar with this kind of attitude and some believers like to do that when they have no answer.
You keep repeating the same “humble yourself” nonsense while all this time I’ve shown you that this attitude doesn’t solve my query at all. It is brainwashing to what you’ve advised me to do. Since the politician can’t answer me, he chooses to make me submit. All I need is an honest answer on simple matter and this is what I got, a twisted thinking of a cornered fanatic.
A simple answer and yet, it is not an answer after all. “God made it human to worship” is the “answer” you got because you don’t know any other angle. You just fill all unanswered query with “god made it”. Now, since god made it that means god has purpose. What purpose? It’s to be worshiped. Why does he have that? Does he need it? How strong this purpose is? Is it low, medium, or high? Include this with the intentional deed of giving free will despite the fact that god knew the result (read: rebellion). Rate your version of god.
Refusing my answer on this “worship” thing and force yours is no good. You have to refute it logically, not just saying no.
Are you behaving like muslim? Yes, at least half your statement is like that. There is plenty similarities I can drawn from you.
Nope, grace. I’ve thought that from different angle and found out that my angle is the most sensible and logical. I know this is hard for believers but truth doesn’t care about your feeling.
Oh, John K, the whole problem lies with you and not me? Based on the royal law of Christ, I've already proven to you from the Bible that Jesus Christ never ever mentioned that there is a 'heavenly mother', neither did He ever taught any of His disciples and followers to baptize in proxy of the dead and last but not least, He never ever said that by His grace, we can achieve Exaltation at all!
Since you stubbornly refused to believe my good discoveries and admit that these are all lies concorted by Joseph Smith, then, may I propose the best way here is to get a honest, kind and truthful man like my beloved Dr Ali Sina, to verify and vouch that I'm telling the truth and not lying like Joseph Smith. I believe that my beloved Dr Ali Sina will be most delighted to help you out of this cob webs. So, now the issue is: Do you have the guts to ask Dr Ali Sina here for his good advice or that you'd rather behave like a coward in love or an ostrich that choose to bury its head deep in the Sahara desert for good? No, the truth is that you're a basket case and not me at all. 🙂
Then what's your problem? Attention Deficit Disorder? Poor reading comprehension? Cognitive Disorder? You are a basket case, Grace.
Oh, John K, since you like to win so much, I'll let you win and go to join Muhammad bin Abdullah in that hellish sinkhole full of despicable lies. LOL.
It's good to know that you do use the KJV Bible for Bible study. The right thing for you to do next is to throw away all the books of lies produced by Joseph Smith and I believe that you will come to your right senses.
John K, are you a human egg in one of my ovaries? If not, how do you know that I don't read my Bible? The fact that you remain a Morrmon shows that you are truly ignorant of the Way, the Truth and Life and this depict your level of ignorance. 🙂
I've read my dear Dr Ali Sina's book and other books on cults too and I confirmed that Mormons are a cult. It's not that I don't like your religion but the truth is that I must stand up for the truth of Jesus Christ. That's the least that I can do to express my love to Him and also, to help spiritually blind dudes like you, to realize that Joseph Smith was a horrible liar! How do you feel if joker smith spread tales behind your back of something which you've never said or do before at all that led to many misunderstandings? Would you speak out and clear the air or would you act like a coward in love and remain silent for the rest of your entire life?
Nice try Grace, but you lose again. Mormons use the King James Bible. You don't read the Bible. This is evident by your level of ignorance. Owning books is not sufficient. You also have to read them.
Oh John K, it seems like you've forgotten the fact that my Bible is different from your 'bible', that's why I can't find such a verse in my Bible. Maybe you should stop reading Joseph Smith's 'bible' and go to a Christian Bookshop and buy a KJV Bible and list out all the differences between your 'bible' and the KJV Bible. 🙂
The good news is that for God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:16-17.He came down from Heaven and became like one of us, paid the price for the penalty of our sins and give us eternal life. That's the power of His love for all human beings. 🙂
Kindly grab hold of a Bible and read Genesis, the first book of the Bible, to get your facts right. In the beginning, He made everything good and perfect. Yes, He made all the angels and human beings to be loving, good and perfect beings and the reason why our first ancestors, Adam and Eve can fellowship with Him in the Garden of Eden because they share the same common ground and that is perfect liberty. Because of His great love, He created angels and human beings to be free moral beings endowed with a free will so that we may fellowship with Him in love. But lucifer, whom God loves so much, became rebellious and prideful and he made the wicked choice to usurp God and even, led one third of the angels in following his footsteps. Thus, God cast all these rebellious fallen angels out of Heaven.
The truth is that human beings did not rebel against God, like what lucifer did in Heaven. Eve was deceived by him and chose to disobey God's instructions and Adam chose to listen and obey Eve than God.
Mr Sanada_10, let's come to the point. Yes, you can criticize all the powerful, wealthy and corrupted politicians as much as you like because you are a free moral being but do make sure that you got the facts right first before jumping into any conclusions.
Are you sure that you didn't accuse God for nothing? The fact is that you accused my loving Creator God right from the beginning of creation! You accused God of abusing His rights and authority and power of making lucifer and human beings to be free moral beings and not like robots. You accused my loving Creator God for causing the fall of lucifer and the fall of human beings. You accused my loving Creator God of everything bad and even, for 'making and planting the seed of rebellion'.
The truth is that human beings did not rebel against God, like what lucifer did in Heaven. Eve was deceived by him and chose to disobey God's instructions and Adam chose to listen and obey Eve than God.
Mr Sanada_10, who told you that love is not eternal? Do you mean to say that you witnessed the beginning of love? By the way, how do you measure love since you knew that it's not eternal?
Hello, Mr Sanada_10, why all this whining about my care and concern for your body? I'm glad that you can breathe better now as you read all my replies of which I hope that it will not add to your Atheistic insecurity and hurt your pride. what emotional response? The reason why you said so is because of the fact that you cannot come to terms with the truth that I share with you here and then, you accused me of that. I've told you so many times that God created Lucifer to be afree moral being just like my pet calf, Sanada_10, having the same free moral will and be responsible for their choices, words and actions, though God is omniscience. Are you suffering form dementia, my dear Sanada_10? Maybe my beloved Dr Ali Sina is able to help your brain to function properly. 🙂
Mr Sanada_10, like what I said so many times in my earlier comments, you failed to grasp the point because you are too lazy to think and analyse the truth that I mentioned here. Haven't you realized it at all that you are the one who stubbornly refused to humble yourself to acknowledge the loving kindness of my loving Creator God as compared to our earthly parents and then, accused me of twisting your questions and serving my ego?
I've already explained clearly to you that we, human beings, worship God because God created us with a conscience to know and worship Him. Do I behave like a muslim when I always uphold the royal law of Christ here? I think that you're the one who should observe and think from different angles and you'll come to the ultimate truth.
The fact that Adam and Eve were once perfect beings prove that my loving Creator God is good and just and the fact that you are really an ignorant Atheist!
In your earlier comments, didn't you admit the fact that human created robots to serve their purposes and needs? So, it's really humble for an Atheist like you to humbly confessed the truth that a robot is not an accident at all but created by human beings. Since an Atheist like you agreed with this stubborn truth and yet, choose to remain an Atheist, which means that you stubbornly refused to admit the truth that you are created by my loving Creator God, so in other words, it is an accident that you are a walking and talking robot which exist accidentally but has all the human quality ie. complain non stop, etc. Isn't it so true, my dear robot Sanada_10? 🙂
He made to be free moral beings with that free moral will because He loves us. He knew that an Atheist like you will complain about that and everything about Him and everything under the sun, and that's the reason why my loving Creator God is waiting patiently for people who love to whine like you, to humble yourself before Him, repent of this horrible sin and acknowledged His everlasting love for you.
Mr Sanada_10, why you always accuse me of not following the discussion and giving irrelevant answer wheh you're the one who cannot understand all my questions and provide me with good answers?
I think that you're the one missing the important point again and again. Yes, wouldn't it be convenient and nice for my loving loving Creator God to make us all like robots, without the capability to complain all the time, as per your heartless suggestion? The core issue is that my perfect loving Creator God is the Master of the Universe and He's not a sinful human being like one of us here on planet earth, Human beings are imperfect sinful creatures and how in the world, can you compare us to our perfect loving Creator God. Human beings created robots without a heart, just to fulfill their selfish purposes but my loving Creator God is different. He gave us His life and a heart that speaks of His love that endures forever.
Oh, my dear pet calf, Mr Sanada_10, you said: "You are missing the point again, grace. Human created or should I say, invented robot because they want to make a helper that always obey them, not complaining and making the inventor unhappy. So, the core issue is why didn't god do this? Why did he insert the free will knowing that human can complain about that? You don't follow the discussion you just gave irrelevant answer. Tell me, since you claim that atheist is robot then why atheist has human quality? Robot is clearly invented (not created) by human because human has purpose and needs. How about god? I see you still compare god with human again."
Mr Sanada_10, it's very convenient for you to blame me when in actual fact, you're the one who failed to get hold of my point here.
Yes, no doubt my loving Creator God is omniscient but that doesn't mean that you can anyhow push all the blame to him for your foolishness and stupidity and accused Him of planting the seed of rebellion in human. Grow up, Mr Sanada_10! I know that it's hard for an Atheist like you to grow up to be a mature individual because you're so used to blame God for your every unhappiness in life.
The truth is whether you like it or not, you're created to be a free moral being and therefore, you're responsible for all your choices, words and actions.
Since you admit the fact that your parents have no control over your words and actions and admit that you're responsible for it, so it applies to our loving Creator God too because He is our Heavenly Father and we are His sons and daughters. He is a perfect gentleman and He love us and respect our choices, words and actions.
Mr Sanada_10, are you very sure that the reason why your beloved parents gave birth to you is soley because of their natural instinct to stay alive and prolong the species? Maybe you'll like to ask them what happened on that beautiful night that led to their decision to make a human being like you and then, we'll continue to discuss this make love topic. LOL.
Cool down, Mr Sanada_10. Take a deep breath and breathe out slowly and all your unnecessary anger will dispersed like smoke. 🙂
For goodness sake, please stop repeating the statement that I can't answer your question when you're the one who cannot give me a proper answer to all my questions!
I've repeated so many times before that Lucifer is a free moral being, just like you and he is responsible for all his choices, words and actions, just like you. So, don't anyhow blame me for not answering your questions when you're the one who's the blur king. LOL. Oh, I don't want you to grasp air but the absolute truth! 🙂
Mr Sanada_10, I'm glad to know that you are humble enough to admit the fact that you cannot answer my questions. Please also be humble enough to admitit the fact that you are the one who has no knowledge why it's part of human nature to seek and worship God. How do you know that I read a book and believe it without observation and thinking at all? Why such nonsense?
Mr Sanada_10, worship is not 'nutrient' as per your Atheistic claim. Obviously, you have no idea what worship means because you are an Atheist.
Of course, your parents are different from my loving Creator God because they are His creations and they are sinners too. But you may have forgotten the fact that our first ancestors, Adam and Eve were once perfect beings. If your parents who are sinners can love you so much, how much do you think that a perfect loving Creator God will love His children? Yes, I'm desperate to see you come to the ultimate realization of the absolute truth that God is real. 🙂
By the way, my loving Creator God is a perfect gentleman and not a narcissist because He is perfect, unlike you and your wild accusations.
Mr Sanada_10, what do you mean by I don't follow again? The fact that you admit that Atheist is a human proves that Atheism is afterall a big fat lie. Why? In your earlier comment, you confessed that human create robot and therefore, it means that you do acknowledged the fact that a robot is not an accident but a creation and it has a creator/inventor. So, likewise, human is not an accident but a created being, created by my loving Creator God! So, my dear deluded Mr Sanada_10,don't you think that you are dumber than a robot?
My question is simple and yet you cannot answer it. Tell me, who did "many things" on Lucifer's personality, who was controlling and knowing him at that time?
You didn't answer this and you want me to grasp what? Air?
One cannot be humble just because you cannot answer one's question. This is coercion, grace. If this is the case then you are the one who has no knowledge about the reason of worship. All you can do is read a book and believe it, no observation and thinking at all.
Irrelevant response, I was talking about the needless god who should need no "nutrient" from human in the form of worship. What's the point? He had already got everything and any other else is irrelevant and insignificant.
My parents are different than god. I've told you that many times, for example: parents can dump children or teach them bad way. Why did you put them in god's shoes while I had rejected that view from the start? Are you desperate?
The only narcissist being is the personal god in your mind, not the parents.
Mr Sanada_10, please be humble and admit that you have no knowledge or whatsoever as to why human beings desire to worship God because you are an Atheist. So how in the world can you answer any questions relating to God when you don't believe that my loving Creator God exists before any Atheist was born?
Let me ask you this question. Why would your parents teach you love, respect, mannerisms and filial piety and why would they need you to love them in return when both husband and wife can love each other? Are your parents narcissists? Are your parents needy and insecure creatures? Do you think that your parents should mould you in such a way that you are like a robotic child? Is this the easiest way to fulfill their wish?
See? You don't follow again. In order to not getting any complain, god should make humans as robot to fulfill his purpose. If he wanted to do differently that means he had another purpose in mind. Is this simple logic so hard for you?
Machine is not dumb, it can do what the inventor want it to do. It is useful and without the weakness of the inventor.
Atheist is human, grace. Since when they become robot? In your deluded mind maybe? You are doing a hate speech here, claiming that some group of humans have no parents and humanity. Like I told you before, you are 50% like muslim.
Come on, Mr Sanada_10, if youa re smart enough, you should be able to grasp the answer from my questions. Either you are dumb or that you purposely ignore my answers because your conscience pricked you and you know that my loving Creator God loves you just like your beloved parents or rather, I should say, He loves you more than them!
You didn't follow the point here. This is very simple since god is all knowing and he could even know what I would be doing even before I thought about it. In short, he was aware of the possibility and also planted the seed of rebellion himself by allowing the so called "free will" in human.
My parents cannot control that and they can get affected by the deeds, so of course I will be responsible since they have nothing to do with the act, plus the stain on their name. With god, it's a different case and this is the main issue here. You are the one that cannot make sense differentiating these 2.
Well done, Mr Sanada_10! So, you finally confessed that human is the one who created robot to work like a machine just like an iphone which cannot complain at all. Why? Because human beings are sick of complaining all the time, that's why they made sure that robots and machines are dumb! LOL. Now, let me answer your question. about who is the robot here that can complain. I said is you, my dear Mr Sanada_10 because you are an Atheist. An Atheist said in his heart that there is no God and that he is not a created being. So, logically speaking, an Atheist believe that he is a robotic machine born out of nowhere but has the capability to complain all the time. LOL.
Nope, I've answered your question but you didn't want to accept it. It's natural instinct to stay alive and prolong the species and I gave you another question to clarify that. You did the same to my earlier post (answering query with question) but you protested me when I did that. Funny, grace.
Accusing me not knowing god is not going to help you. All I do is pointing the problem in your view about god and you still can't answer it.
God created human to worship him? Why would he want to be worshiped while he is the only powerful creator already? Is he a narcissist? Only insecure creature needs that. A needy god doesn't belong to this.
If god truly wants that, he should do that by making human as robotic worshiper. This is easier to fulfill his desire.
Come on, Mr Sanada_10, please be logical and rational and fair to my loving Creator God!
Yes, no doubt my loving Creator God is omniscient but He is a perfect gentleman Who gives us free moral will and liberty and choices to live our life. He doesn't control us like a robot and therefore, we are all responsible for our choices, words and every actions.
Let me ask you a question to knock some sense into your Atheist brain. Does your beloved parents control everything about you ie. how many times you can have sex with your wife in a week, when you should eat, walk, sleep or talk etc?
Mr Sanada_10, of course you are the one who didn't know that because you're an Atheist and your knowledge of God is limited. 🙂
If you know and believe in my loving Creator God, you'll know that God created human beings in the first place to worship and fellowship with Him in the first place. That's why human beings are all endowed with this knowledge and conscience to know that they need to worship God.
Mr Sanada_10, why are you trying to evade from answering my question? How can I don't know the idea of that when I'm the one who set the question? Why don't you try to provide me a good answer to my question first before I answer your above super easy question? 🙂
Grace, when are you going to answer mine and not questioning back? I've told you that parents are different than god. Finish this first. Answer my questions too.
Mr Sanada_10, what an interesting answer from you, my dear Atheist pet calf!
Let me ask you a hearty question, in order to answer your above question and also, hope that you'll understand my loving Creator God's heart. Isn't it true that your beloved parents gave birth to you and their heart's desire is to watch you grow up to be a good, successful and upright man. But the truth is that irregardless of whether you turned out to be a good or bad man, you still belong to them, right? So, do you mean to say that when you killed your enemy out of anger, you immediately blame your parents for not calculating the cost and risk of giving birth to you, knowing that you might end up this way in life? Do you also mean to say that you should rightfully pushed all the blame to your beloved parents for they are the controllers in the first place and they shouldn't give birth to you at all?
Are you a Muslim pretending a Christian?
Human created them but you forgot that robot is created to work not to behave like human. Robot is just machine like your cell phone. You still didn't show me the robot of yours.
Me or you who didn't know that? Human beings want to worship god because of their limited knowledge of their surrounding. When they become more sophisticated they will realize that many gods in their mind are not worth to be worshiped. Selecting the right person, I would say.
Mr Sanada_10, was it human perceptions at all? You've got absolutely no idea why human beings want to worship God.
Mr Sanada_10, let me ask you a super simple question, in order to answer your abovet question. Tell me frankly, who invented/created robot?
Nope, you just repeated your old argument again. We must responsible if the other side doesn't know or control our action but if you face the one who controls and creates you, not to mention, knowing the result even before the incident, you can't be responsible for that. Feel me?
You are the one that being illogical. I've shown you the difference between god and the parents.
It is you who don't know the idea of that. So, I ask you, why do you eat knowing that you will get hungry again?
There, you can see that god created him. That means he was the one that actually give Lucifer the seed of rebellion.
Giving the ability? Does that mean that god actually give the chance, let's say, 50% for Lucifer to commit evil? Without god, Lucifer wouldn't even born, had choices, or had inclination to do that.
You do aware that god is all knowing, right? So, god should know what his choice was even before Lucifer made it. Who controlled Lucifer when he made the choice? Everything must had a controller, right?
Generally, human of course worship the "supreme unknown entity" like god but what kind of god? This is mixed with human perception thus losing its real identity. Since we are human we want to make god as human because we don't know anything higher than that. What does human do on this earth?
The very act of worshiping is also human perception.
Me? So I'm a robot now? Do you even understand what I was talking about. Robot doesn't have free will, grace. This must be the future.
Come on, answer it seriously this time. Show me the actual robot that can complain.
John K, you said: "No. You are lying."
Am I lying here? I can't believe that it's coming from your good mouth! Oh, my dear Dr Ali Sina, where are you? I knew the purpose of this site is to dissolve Islam and set all those braindead zombies free and I apologize for this sidetrack to help John K here. Please verify all that I've said about Joseph Smith here is true here and let John K know that Mormonism is a cult. I believe that you are the best person to help him because of the fact that you have successfully come out of that Islamic cult and you knew the mindset of cult members.
Mr John K, kindly be informed that nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ever once tell His disciples and followers that through His grace, they can become gods and achieve Exaltation.
Well, it's time for you to come to your right senses, John K. The truth is that in the Bible, it tells of one rebellious cherub whose ambition is to be like the Most High God and who has said in his heart that he will EXALT his throne above the stars of God and he will sit also upon the mount of the congregation. Does it sounds farmiliar and rings a bell in your head? Don't you think that Joseph Smith and all his successors were following Satan's rebelliousness and lies than the Way, the Truth and the Life?
Oh, John K, if a joker named Smith comes alongside you and say that he is a true prophet of God. Do you mean to say that you will just believe and accept whatever nonsense he said without checking if it's true or that Jesus really said that in the Bible? Commonsense tells you that if joker Smith preached a different gospel or message or teachings or practices that were different from Christ, then, this joker Smith definitely is not from Christ!
Let me prove to you here that Joseph Smith and all his successors were false prophets. Is it true that Joseph Smith taught gullible Christians like you that through the grace of Jesus, Mormons may become perfectly sanctified and thereby literally become gods or achieve Exaltation?
No. You are lying.
You forgot to read the next part that says how we are to tell true prophets from false prophets. If there were to be no true prophets he would have said instead not to worry about how to tell them apart because there won't be anymore. This is just another example of your selective use of the Bible to try to support your biased point of view rather than understand what it is really saying.
Truth is absolute, but it is relative to individual persons who have varying perceptions of it. Your perception is not the only one.
You continue to insult and derogate with your words about victim of cultic lies. That is called abuse.
The fact is that in life, there is such a thing as an absolute, although not everthing is absolute. Certain things are certainly abolute. So some things are absolute and some things are relative. That's the balance.
John K, if you do not know your direction through the compass of God's Word, someone will lead you astray and that someone is none other than Joseph Smith. Our beloved Lord Yeshua warned us:
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
So, my dear John K, are you a victim living Satan's lies?
Dear John K, you said that "Truth is relative. Don't be arrogant. Be Humble." I beg to differ from your point of view. In fact, I once sent an email to my dear Dr Ali Sina to explain very clearly that truth is not relative and there are absolute truths. I believe that my dear Dr Ali Sina should get the clear picture now after reading that long long time ago email of mine. 🙂
Well, John K, isn't it true that you have to die one fine day and that explains the absolute truth itself. Most absolutely, there is such a thing called absolute. Before you play a meaningful game of any kind, you must first agree on certain ground of rules. If those rules are not absolutely fixed, then the game beomes meaningless. Am I arrogant for speaking and ministering truth in love to you, my dear victim of cultic lies? Don't you know that I'm a humble worshipper of Jesus Christ? 🙂
I'm sorry for derogating you but I'm really telling you the truth that Joseph Smith lied and Joseph Smith Jr lied and there are so many lies in Mormonism. Do you think that I like to derogate you? No, I love you, John K, and wish that you will honor Jesus with truth and not lies. You cannot worship Jesus with lies but in Spirit and in truth. Please reconsider all my truthful comments here and get out of Mormonism before it's too late. Or, is it true that you can't leave
Mormonism because they will harm you?
Oh, Ruach Hakodesh, please help John K, to know the truth and may the truth set him free from all deceptions and lies.
Truth is relative. Don't be arrogant. Be Humble.
You're derogating again Grace. You need to learn some social "Grace"s.
Okay. Today we will pretend you are a very busy and famous writer, and you hired me as your editor. So let's rewrite your post like this:
"Alright, John K, I apologize for my bad behavior caused by my misunderstanding of the Golden Rule and for trying to impose my interpretation of the truth about Jesus Christ on other people here."
Yeah, I'm posturing all because of love and the Golden Rule. Till now, you're still not convinced that Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith Jr and all his successors were fooling you, John K, with their self made lies. I wonder how can you be a scientist and serve in the military when you can't even distinguish between truth and lies, true and false prophets? No wonder Dr Albert Einstein exclaimed that even scientists are dumb creatures and there's no limit to their stupidity.
What insult? Don't you know that I love you so much so that I can't bear to insult you at all but to love you more by sticking the truth on your heart?
Alright, John K, I apologize for my good behaviour here because of the Golden Rule and for speaking the truth about Jesus Christ.
A common thread in both Dr. Sina's and my writings is that regardless of what religion people belong to, they project their image of what they expect a perfect and good God and religion to be. Dr. Sina explains that this is how he felt about Islam before he learned the facts about it.
Humans generally have an inclination to worship. What varies from religion to religion and culture to culture is what their religion says about the nature of God, and how their sacred texts define him.
Assuming that God is what the local culture and religion define him to be is a form of provincialism and totally an accident of where a person happens to be born.
Thanks for sticking up for me Arya. I generally don't talk about my religion unless asked about it or it's attacked or it's relevant to the article or a comment.
Looking above, this thread got off track when Grace jumped in with, "Oh John K, when will you realize that Joseph Smith was a false prophet?"
I could have chosen to ignore it, but I don't like to let bad comments stand, including those from Muslims.
I think enough has been said about the comment, but Grace's behavior needs to be tackled too, as you also helped.
You're posturing, Grace.
A smiley face does not reduce the impact of the insult.
Robot Sanada_10! So now, let's take a good look at you. How can you say that free will is like oil and water and not soap?
Mr Sanada_10, are you jealous that I'm a good Smaritan?
Mr Sanada_10, it's strange that since you know the story of Lucifer, this means that you knew that God created him. So, why bother to ask me "where did Satan came from?". Why such redundancy?
Anyway, Satan was NOT created evil. Rather, when God created Satan, God gave him the ability to make moral choices, just like human beings. It was Satan's own choice to rebel against God. Does it sounds farmiliar to you?
Mr Sanada_10, do you mean to say that you had no idea why your parents chose to give birth to you, knowing that after birth, you will die in the end?
Mr Sanada_10, you agree that you are responsible for your choices, words and actions in life, therefore, this means that you must also agree that human beings are responsible for every choices, words and actions in life. So, why blame my loving Creator God for human stupidity? Come on, you must be logical and consistent in your words.
Which robot, Astro boy? Robot and free will is like oil and water.
Problem is, the real good samaritan never got reaction like yours.
Yes, those robots which are endowed with a free moral will, always complain against their loving Creator God.
Mr
Sanada_10, sometimes, good Samaritans are misunderstood for their good intentions. Never judge a book by its cover. 🙂
I know the story about Lucifer but that's not the point. What I meant is that you can trace everything back to god.
Who'd created Lucifer? Who had shaped him like that? Who'd known his future thoughts?
Natural instinct made by god according to believers. They are just tools.
With the parents, yes but with god, no. I did state that years ago.
Try to answer it correctly. Is there any robot that can complain?
Nope, I just pointed the difference. Other posters are the proof.
I'm very glad that you asked me, "Where did Satan came from?" because this shows that you are interested to know more about my loving Creator God. 🙂
Lucifer is an annointed Cherub created by God, till all kinds of wickedness ie. pride, violence, rebelliousness, disobedience, etc are found in him and he sinned against his loving Creator God and fall from grace. Thus, his name became Satan.
Regarding your illustration of your ordinary parents and God, let me ask you a simple question to answer your above query. Why in the world do your beloved parents chose to give birth to you when they knew that you will die anytime after birth?
Mr Sanada_10, I'm really glad to know that you've finally emerged out of nowhere and give me a reply. So, you finally confessed that you are responsible for your choice and actions and not push all the blame to your beloved parents. Similarly, you are also admitting that you are responsible for all your choice, words and actions and not accuse nor blame our loving Creator God for your sins and all human stupidity. That's really humble for an Atheist like you. 🙂
Yes, you are the robot which keeps complaining. LOL. 🙂
Mr Sanada_10, are you jealous that I'm a good Samaritan?
Islam needs birth to form its ummah. In the end, overpopulation is bad for the whole.
If we keep shaping god like ourselves we will arrive to the conclusion. That's why I keep stating that god's definition in most religions is just human's image.
Allah's was Muhammad's image, no doubt about that. Different image different teaching.
Grace, I've answered that, remember? My parents are just human, a limited creature without any knowledge of the future. Of course I was responsible for that act but not my parents.
God's case is entirely different. Imagine your parents are godly creatures. They can know what your deeds, thoughts, and secret every time. They know what you will do in your current state of mind and even years later. In fact , it's your parents who gave you your "identity" before you were born, how you would behave, react, do etc. Note that ordinary parents can't do that.
Now, where did satan come from?
See? You repeated the fallacy again. Have you ever heard a robot complaining?
Er, good samaritan didn't get a reaction like yours.
Oh, John K, those braindead zombies behave and react exactly like you when good people like Dr Ali Sina, you and me, discussed about their religion of lies and how they felt that we are 'attacking' their belief by showing them the truth that their religion is full of lies. Do you know that you mean a lot to me here? Not because you are my defender here but of the fact that we are all human beings and we ought to love and help one another. That's the reason why I take the risk of losing our friendship here by showing you the Way, the Truth and the Life because I simply love you, John K, just like I love Jonathan Harrel and especially, my beloved Iranian Canadian Dr Ali Sina.
Alright, John K, I hope that all that i've said to you here will knock some sense into your Mormon brain. 😛
Thank you, El Padrino. I agree with you 100%. My posts will show I generally only discuss my religion if I am asked about it or if it is attacked. This thread went to the topic when Grace came in and made another unsolicited attack on me. Yet I have been her primary defender here, and obviously not because I agree with her!
Knock it off.
Hi Mr Arya Anand, thanks for your kind reminder. How can a kind and inteliigent lady like me be aggressive and abusive here just by sharing the ultimate truth with my dear brother John K? Don't you know that I'm a good Samaritan who loves the Golden Rule?
Hi E1, thanks for your counsel of which I'll take into consideration to further share the truth with everybody here and never insult any founder of any religion for all the lies and deceptions which they have produced to fool gullible religious human beings.
(Dis)Grace
You are really annoying.I can't imagine anyone wanting to be around a person who insults everyones beliefs all the time.I have a close friend that's born-again & he only discusses religion with me because he knows it's my favorite topic or if somenone asks about his religious views.But when we hangout with other friends from my old neighborhood then he never insults others' beliefs.That's why everyone feels comfortable around him & we talk about sports,women ,"back in the day" stories,etc.
Hi John K & Agracean,
May I remind both of you that we are here to discuss Islam and expose its evilness and not to promote Christianity or any other religion.
You both have deviated from the purpose of this site and are engaged in promoting your brand of Christianity and blaming each other, not to mention Agracean's aggressive attitude of hurting by using abusive words.
Oh John K, why are you as stubborn as those braindead zombies? Jesus Christ never ever in His entire earthly ministry instruct any of His disciples to baptize in proxy of the dead. No! Never! Not even the apostle Paul! Paul was referring to those who were adopting this practices and not himself.
Alright, my dear John K, it looks like I've touched the nerve of your sensitive parts and you're going to shoot at me. Oops! Anyway, I speak the truth and your heart knows that well. So, it's up to you to choose to continue to waste your entire life in this religion of lies and die with regrets or face the truth and get out of Mormonism and follow only the Way, the Truth and the Life. Choose life, my dearest John K! 🙂
Sorry. Mormons do not teach anything in contradiction to Jesus' teachings. You're not going to get me to agree to this, so just stop trying.
We've been round and round over this and it's not going to go anywhere, so just stop it, okay?
I have no respect for the way you ignored my presentation of verses that support the doctrine of Heavenly Mother. It just shows me that you have no respect for the Bible, so in reality you are the one in contempt of the Lord's words not Joseph Smith. So just stop it, okay?
Yes, John K, you're right to say I'm not in a position to evaluate your current mentality but I do love you very much and hope the best for you, my dear John K and I hope that you won't crucify me for telling the absolute truth. 🙂
John K, am I 'blind' for speaking the truth? Let's imagine that somebody claimed that my dear Dr Ali Sina said that I'm his wife. Would you stand up for Dr Ali Sina and speak the truth that this person lied or would you be complacent and compromised the truth and defend this liar and insist that this person is not lying? Please come to your senses and know that Joseph Smith and his successors lied about Jesus Christ and introduced many strange doctrines and practices which were contradictory to Jesus's teachings and Words but the comfort is that, despite all these nonsense, Jesus still loves Mormons and waiting for you people to repent and come to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. 🙂
Oh, John K, I apologize for my frankness here that hurts your pride and sensitivity. I don't know what words to describe victims of lies/scams/cults except 'mindless' and 'gullible'. I believe that you are not mindless and gullible like the rest of the people but it's just that you cannot accept the fact that Joseph Smith lied when I produced the truth from the Bible that our beloved Lord Jesus Christ never ever once in his entire earthly life and ministry ever revealed the existence of a 'heavenly mother' at all. Let me ask you a heartfelt question. Do you really love our beloved Lord Jesus Christ and stand up for the integrity and truth of His Words? Or would you be complacent and show contempt to His Words like Joseph Smith? Jesus warned us to beware of false prophets. Isn't it obvious here that Joseph Smith was indeed a false prophet when he claimed the existence of a heavenly mother when the truth is that our Lord Jesus Christ never ever once mentioned the existence of such a figure at all?
You are not in a position to evaluate my mental status. Don't presume to do so again.
You are just blind Grace. Beyond hope. Just pray that God will help you see.
Grace, I am getting tired of your ignorant remarks.
First, you start with a straw man. No Mormon ever said they don't believe in Jesus Christ. This is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have also made this point clear in my posts, and you have called me your brother in Christ. So this remark of yours is just stupid.
Second, what do you have against Joseph Smith? You have never met the man, and you have never read a word of his writings. So what is your problem?
Have I ever said anything against a leader of your church? Have I ever said anything against your hero, Ali Sina? So let's have it so that I leave your hero alone, and you leave my hero alone, okay?
And don't you DARE ever, ever call me mindless and gullible again. I'm sure many people here would say the same thing about you, and you wouldn't like that would you? So let's have some civil decency here.
John K, I can understand your current sense of self denial of the truth that Joseph Smith is a false prophet and he lied that there is a heavenly mother who is but a figment of his imagination to deceive gullible human beings like you.
When Dr Ali Sina came to the ultimate realization that Islam is a religion of lie., he took some time to overcome his disbelief and anger. So, likewise, I can understand that you are currently in the self denial mode and you'll try to defend Mormonism at all cost even though inwardly, you knew that Joseph Smith and his successors were liars.
Come on, John K, I wasn't born yet so how can they say that they saw me? Surely Joseph Smith's heavenly mother must exist in heaven long before the apostle John visited Heaven, right? So, from here, we can conclude that Joseph Smith lied and there is no heavenly mother at all and all his doctrines and teachings were inconsistent and contradictory to that of my beloved Lord Jesus because he was a false prophet. So, John K, it's time for you to get out of this Mormon sinkhole before it collapsed. It's just a matter of time that Mormonism will dissolve into thin air, just like Islam because lies cannot withstand the test of time and the onslaught of Truth. Be wise, my friend and let God be true and every man a liar.
Oh, John K, if you read all my above truthful comments carefully, you'll realized that Mormons are really mindless, gullible followers because they chose to believe in Joseph Smith than their Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!
None of the passages you cite claim to be exclusive. Why didn't they say they saw you? Don't you exist?
You are talking about the mentality of mindless followers. I am telling you that Mormon people are sharp and know what they are doing and talking about.
Your are funny Grace. Nothing you said contradicts Joseph Smith.
My dear John K, no doubt that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of the world's largest churches and one of the world's fastest growing churches and there are thousands of accomplished professionals well-respected in their fields who are Mormons. So what? Don't you knwo the fact that human beings are by nature as stupid as sheep and we need a Shephed? Are you following the father of lies or are you following Jesus Christ, the good Shepherd Who live and die for you? Do you want to follow the crowd of swine and jump down the cliff and drown in the sea of lies?
Joseph Smith claimed that there is a heavenly mother and it's such an obvious lie because Jesus is the Son of God Who is greater than this false prophet and He revealed ONLY our Heavenly Father God to us in His entire ministry on planet earth and never once mentioned that He or we have a heavenly mother. Surely if such a figure exist in the highest Heaven, she must be of utmost importance to us too, right? Why would Jesus want to 'purposely' omit the revelation of Joseph Smith's heavenly mother in the Bible? The truth is that there is no heavenly mother at all and it's just a lie produced by Joseph Smith.
Even the apostle John, in the book of Revelation, did not mention that he saw a heavenly mother in Heaven. He wrote down what He saw in Heaven about the 4 living creatures, cherubims, seraphims, angels, souls, etc and never ever once exclaimed that he saw the heavenly mother. So, can you tell me what happened to this Joseph Smith's heavenly mother? Why is she playing hide and seek with John and us? LOL.
Dear John K, Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father EXCEPT through Him. Jesus speaks the truth and He is the Truth. So, based on His Word, we know that Joseph Smith is a false prophet. Why? Everything that Jesus said is truth and using His Word as the standard and guide against every kind of false doctrines and teachings in the world, it's not difficult at all to find out who's telling the truth and who's lying.
Appeal to authority is not only a logical fallacy, it is also a sign of your feeling of weakness in your position.
Jesus never said there is no Heavenly Mother, and you have not shown me anything to disprove the concept. On the other hand, I showed you verses that appear to support the concept, but you reject them.
Plus, if I want to show you something from Peter, or Paul, or the Old Testament, you reject it because Jesus didn't say it.
Your position as a Christian who only accepts the words of Jesus is as rare and as illegitimate as a Quran-only Muslim.
You could just make everything simpler by being a Christian who believes that all you have to do is believe in Jesus to be saved. That makes the entire Bible and Book of Mormon irrelevant because it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you believe in Jesus and accept him as your Savior.
Or you can just be an atheist. If you are an atheist, I won't quote any Bible verses at all because I would know you don't believe in the Bible, so there is no point in quoting it.
Maybe if you became an atheist, you would have a better chance winning Dr. Sina. Don't count on it.
You people act like Mormons are your high-school buddies and don't know anything. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is one of the world's largest churches and one of the world's fastest growing churches. There are thousands of accomplished professionals well-respected in their fields. We're not going to change just because someone said we are false and we need to change. People know what they are talking about and are not so easily dissuaded.
Hi Arya Ji, Namaste. 🙂
Ungalukku Ennudaya Vanakkam!(My greetings to you!)
Mr Sanada_10, you seem to omit the most important point in my long long ago comments. Let me repeat again. Human beings are complaint kings and queens and very difficult to please. If God made us to be like robots, people like you will complain. So God made us in His image and gives us the free will, to choose between life and death because robots have no free will at all and then, people like you will complain again.
My dear John K, I think that you have a poor memory. Let me tickle your brain to help you remember all that I've revealed to you that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Can you remember the 'heavenly mother' issue and all the Bible verses I've quoted to help you understand that Jesus never ever once in his entire earthly ministry ever said that there is a heavenly mother!
I wanted to laugh my head off when I read about your belief of a Jewish tradition of a messiah Ben-Joseph is Joseph Smith and that he preceded the coming of Jesus. Grow up, John K, you ought to worship God in Spirit and in truth and stop being so gullible. Dr Ali Sina will surely be pleased with my truthfulness. 🙂
Oh yes, I love Joseph Campbell's work!
We boys should be deliberately given manhood.
Kindly read the book King Warrior Magician Lover for the information I want to portray to you.
This is for all the Ex Muslims males who want some guidance (on being a) after coming out of Islam. You will even know why the Prophet of Islam is being called Juvenile.
Hi,
Your "Choosing a man of different faith" is too broad. First choose a man.
I would ask a girl to choose a male who has gone through ritual initiation into manhood.
Here is the link to what I am talking about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thou…
almost all the religions even islam have such rituals. Only in Islam its about coverting infidels daughters, wives.
Hey,, Tamillians here…
Ellarukkum Vanakkam Pa 🙂
Why are we thinking God tricked and deceived? That's Allah's trait.
I agree.
It's by the doctrine you promulgate, Grace!
You haven't quoted anything at all from the Bible that proves Joseph Smith was a false prophet because there isn't anything at all. To the contrary, the Bible supports Joseph Smith and the latter-day restoration. Even Jewish tradition speaks of a Messiah Ben-Joseph who will precede the coming of the Messiah in glory.
Why do you think Dr. Sina knows more about Christianity than me? I come here because Dr. Sina knows more about Islam than me.
There! Aren't you glad you didn't leave? :p
I did say I agree that unborn children should be protected. But Islam being right on this one point does not make Islam good.
You are just repeating yourself here. Yes, it was (personal) god who tricked humans because god is all knowing. Deception is one of human attribute and since human is made from god's image it is common sense to say that god actually can do deception. Everything must come from somewhere and god is the source of all things.
For example, when you talked about free will, you made a claim that humans would protest if they became robot while being that way would actually please god’s desire. See the problem here?
Mr Sanada_10, your first and foremost question: 1.Omniscient God who tricked human into sins and you didn’t respond about “deception” attribute in God.
Are you sure that it is my loving Creator God Who 'tricked' human into sins as per your negative claims? Please get your facts and understanding right. What 'deception' attribute did you find my loving Creator God? Please justify.
Dear John K, are you a parasite in my body? How in the world do you know that I was 'informed more by televangelists' than Biblical knowledge?
Mr Sanada_10, please substantiate your claims.
Oh John K, why don't you check with Dr Ali Sina for the truth about Joseph Smith, if I was right to say that he was indeed a false prophet? Surely, with Dr Ali Sina's wealth of knowledge about Jesus Christ, he's able to help you to come to the ultimate realization of the absolute truth.
I've quoted so many verses from the Bible to substantiate my claims that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and yet, you dare to say that I've got a lot of ideas that are not scripturally supported!
My saying is unborn childern are as much human being living outside the womb .And as far as I know islam prohibits abortion.As the Ali sina is Saying that muslim parents kill their childern .My saying is that killing is done by modern laws which are liberal only for females kills children in womb.So who is cruel .The only thing current laws are made around the globe Keeping in mind only the females rights.There are almost zero rights for husband.I am well aware of Indian laws and laws in other countries are also more or less same
Grace answered it wrongly last time.
Right, that's the list.
Oh dear Grace! When are you going to realize that Joseph Smith was a true prophet?
You have a lot of ideas that are not scripturally supported, yet you show no interest when shown scriptures which contradict your preconceived notions.
Duratma_Gandhi,
உதவ முன்வந்ததற்கு ரொம்ப நன்றி சார்.( Thank you so much for offering to hep me, Sir.)
Since my mother tongue is Tamil I do not find difficulty in translating Ali's articles into Tamil. Soon I will start sending Ali's team as many translated articles as I can. By the way, you can do Hindi translation, if possible.
Oh John K, when will you realize that Joseph Smith was a false prophet?
I've shown you the place and the reason, grace. You do have a short term memory. Btw, here it is. Apparently FFI.org is having tech difficulty so better wait and finish this there.
:p
Ha!
It's off-topic to the comments section. Take it to FB private messaging.
Mr Sanada_10, what's the point of possessing that things in between your legs when you can't behave like a gentleman at all? There are so many comments in FFI.org and how can I retrieve that particular comment of yours? Why don't you do me the favor of posting all the questions one by one here, so that we can stop this argument and start our discussion?
This very post of yours is personal attack, grace. I wonder how on earth you could have missed that? Like I told you, the list is already in FFI.org. All you have to do is go there and read it, come back here and answer it one by one. Simple, eh?
Oh, Mr Sanada_10, how I missed your creamy milk question. So, you want to start a mini discussion with on the Towel of Babel? What do you mean by saying that I did not provide you with the correct answer? Why always accuse me of personal attacking you, my lovely pet calf? Don't you know that I don't know how to personal 'attack' my pet except to love them?
Oh, John K, I'll look for you when I visit California. 🙂
She loves narrow things. :p
Nope, your fallacy is clear for everone to see.
Let's face it. You only answer the way you like to answer. For example, when I talked about the illogical story in tower of babel you didn't provide me with correct answer, you only named calling me. Your continuously name calling instead of discussing the topic is personal attack. Forgot what you had said back then?
Dear Ali http://www.facebook.com/groups/GodisImaginary please join group. thank you.
Yes, we must respect the unborn children, but Islam kills the living people.
This thread is too narrow to read too…
Cute, but it kind of goes against my casual California upbringing and personality type.
This thread is getting too narrow. Cannot read the comments any more.
Mr Sanada_10, here you moooo again. Where in the world have I not answer you correctly? I've told you that I like it here but you accused me of selfish. When I pour out my personal affections and personal attention to you, my dear pet prize fatty little calf, you accused me of personal attack. Do you want me to slap your backside, my dear calf, then, you'll wake up and know that you are a bull?
Yeah, I know that, John K, but I sorta like to call you 'sir'. 🙂
Wrong again. This attitude of yours is just a remnant of our past discussion which had so many fallacies you kept pouring at me. You couldn't answer me correctly and attacking me personally instead.
See, this is what your testerone has done to you, my dear pet. Shall I name it the fallacy of Sanada_10's testerone? Maybe I should send you for castration, so that you'll soon get out of this fallacy. 🙂
Nope, it's your thought, don't put your words into mine.
This very fallacy.
Irrelevant auntie, that doesn't explain as why he hid himself while the Meccan broke the muslim's defense. Muhammad also wore 2 mails indicating that he wasn't sure enough about the divine protection. Again, why running away from that battle (Uhud)?
Muhammad was recorded saying, "who will sell his life for us?". When will you address the point directly, eh?
I think that the problem is not the person who love him, but on his religion
Although you are living in a country dominated by Islam, but you can not differentiate between religion and the reverting of religion there may be some Muslims who are bad, but this does not mean that all bad or that religion is a bad guide you like a Muslim and non-Taty and the estimated high education, and also loves you loved so much.
So first you need to change your conceptions about islam religion and then you ask your self if it was possible for your kids to be Muslim or not
Oh, Mr Sanada_10, my dear pet calf, you exposed what fallacy? Did my personal 'attack' increase your testerone so much so that it caused you to lost your mind or what? LOL.
It's not my thoughtts that misled me, it's you, my dear pet! 🙂
Said Ali bin Abu Thalib:
"We witnessed ourselves at the Badr War where we took cover behind Rasulullah. He was the closest to our enemies and the greatest on that day."
Nope, I expose your fallacy instead.
Oh, my dear pet, do admit that you really love my personal 'attack'. LOL.
your thought often misleads you.
I thought that you were pulling my legs. LOL.
No, that's not what I mean. Come on, read correctly this time
I'm pointing at you, don't you get it?
So, my dear pet, do stay relevant, ok? 🙂
It's really nice of you to admit that you do need my personal 'attack' to make you a better pet. LOL.
See? I'm right again.
Showing your irrelevant comment is not irrelevant, grace.
On the contrary, Jesus in Christian doctrine was prepared to be sacrificed for human sins. Different doctrine different result, can't you get it? Anyway, when Peter cut the ear of the enemy Jesus forbade him and taught that whoever used sword should die by the sword.
Protecting Jesus at that time was somewhat futile act for many reasons:
1. Doctrinal reason of non violence and purpose of his mission
2. No weapons
3. Weak and small followers, no army (note that Muhammad wasn't protected by his followers when at Mecca, his pagan family did that, why don't blame them too?)
The different is:
1. Jewish and Roman authority did want to kill him
2. Pagan of Mecca couldn't and wouldn't want to touch Muhammad till the very last moment.
Your post didn't answer my question about bravery. In here, I was talking about the bravery of Christians to die for their faith (because they believe they are right) while muslims are "brave enough" to kill and assassinate for their faith because they believe they are right. Didn't Muhammad cower behind his follower at war? Wearing 2 mails at once, and finally run from the battlefield? Sure, he was a general, but not the one that really tasted the real battlefield.
"Compare it with Christianity which had many early followers who brave enough to be killed for their faith. Muhammad? Ah, you should know it. I've mentioned in many times but you refused to read the actual situation and prefer your silly imagination."
Brave?
By doing nothing to see their prophet (Jesus the son of Marry) was about to be crucified?
Yes, I admit that you are a good pet. 🙂
Thanks for your irrelevant comment.
Irrelevant, grace.
That's all? So you admit that, good.
Yes, Mr Sanada_10, I've failed to realize that you're such an adorable fatty little calf. Besides that, I've also failed to realize that you do need my personal 'attack'. LOL.
Oh, Mr Sanada_10, are you a fishmonger? Or that you like to sell fish for a living? LOL.
Irrelevant. Muhammad as a leader is bad for his own followers, let alone other side. Poverty, backwardness, cruelty, supremacy, barbaric law, misogyny, etc are already proven staining his name. Just a quick glance will reveal how evil Muhammad was to his surrounding. American founding fathers were far better leaders than him. Even some Chinese emperors were better than him. I certainly would pick them rather than Muhammad. In political and state affair, I would pick Confusius' teaching, in kindness and morality I would pick Buddha or Jesus, they both leaders too, you know, and more importantly, could spread the religions without violence, threat and compulsion. Muhammad failed that when in Mecca and of course he was afraid of the weakness of his group. Compare it with Christianity which had many early followers who brave enough to be killed for their faith. Muhammad? Ah, you should know it. I've mentioned in many times but you refused to read the actual situation and prefer your silly imagination.
See? You don't realize it again.
That makes you a selfish person.
@ Juste
To compare a leader you have to come up with a leader. You did not answer me…
Can't find any of your choice? 🙂
Only one comment about childern modern laws including in India allows abortion with conditions attached that is killing a child in womb and you say no one kills child .Of course all feminist makes heavy noise if it is tried to stop.As far as i know islam does not allow abortion
You're reluctant doing it here but I like doing it here. 🙂
Wow, I realized that my dear pet also knows how to judge a human being.
You don't even realize what you have done just above this and all this long to other posters? Wow.
Sigh, I've shown you the place and reason as why I'm reluctant doing it here. Just read that in FFI.org.
Mr Sanada_10, please act like a gentleman now and shoot your milk question to me, to prove that I didn't 'keep delaying the answer'.
Mr Sanada_10, am I personally 'attacking' you here? What do you mean that I have no argument left and I don't answer what? What's wrong with expressing my emotions here?
Abdullah,
A lousy excuse?
Your prophet is stink with lousy excuses. I don’t think you understand the term. So save yourself the shame of speaking it.
And i’m sure alright i’m on the right path alright. Because Islam has not come up with any answer. And definitely none from you.
My idea of a leader would be, anybody who understands and stays away from lousy excuses.
That's not what I mean, grace. You keep doing personal attack when you have no argument left. That's the real problem, you don't answer you just expressing your emotion.
The fact that you keep delaying the answer until this very moment prove that.
Nothing lousy except yourself because you refuse to read answers. I've done that too.
@ Juste
That's a lousy excuse Juste.
Why didn't you tell us you are not sure that you are on the right path. It would have sounded better. 🙂
And who would you say good enough to be your best leaders? 🙂
Yes, sir.
Ok, Mr Sanada_10, I won't 'insult' you anymore, since you don't like to be my pet prize fatty calf that moooo.
Sometimes on the internet the intended tone doesn't come across. When Sanada expressed displeasure at the terms, it would have been better if you stopped using it until sure it wasn't taken wrong.
No, my dear prize Sanada_10 pet fatty calf, you're wrong to say that the last time I couldn't answer it and decided to go away. The reason why I left FFI at that time is because a particular commentator in FFI reveaed the continent where I'm residing though I've never told him before. So, for security reason, I decided to leave FFI for a period of time.
No, that's why I ask.
I guess not. I believe they are studying it from modern Quran.
But if i’m not mistaken, they gave some examples comparing some passages with old Arab literatures.
Do you know the site?
It may be penned by multiple men but they were copying the words of Muhammad. I find it humorous bc their attacks on the Bible can be nailed to the Quran. The biggest difference is the Quran was written based on what Muhammad says God was saying. The Inspiration of the Bible went directly from God to the author. I find no miracle in his claimed illiteracy even if true. All that means is he couldn’t read or write. And he didn’t write. Others wrote. Illiteracy doesn’t mean you cant hear or speak. And back then, even with the Bible, memorization was very much instilled on the people. So his “miraculous” knowledge of the scripture shouldn’t be suprising. Even though his recounts are like a bad game of telephone. Bc a lot of the details got mixed up. The saddest thing to me is that I’ve never seen a religion that limits God like Islam. The God I serve can do anything He wants. I’ve heard so many times from my husband…”God can’t…”. My question is why can’t he? My answer is,”He can do anything. He’s God.”Duh. Again that’s just my logic.
This auntie thinks that rightful person (believed to be) never hesitates to get himself killed but forgot that many criminals and fake prophets (in her own belief) never hesitates too.
Auntie, I've dealt with that, remember? Now back to the first blood topic. Muhammad was never ever faced with any real danger and the persecution of muslims was misnomer so it was common sense for him to be "brave" enough to spread Islam and insult pagan. Different situation happened when he got cornered in Uhud, he persuaded and bribed his followers to die protecting him (while wearing 2 coat of mails) and he himself run away from battlefield. Don't bring your refuted post to another thread here.
Based on classical Arabic, I assume?
John K didn't like yours and certainly it didn't help your argument either. No humor is made for insulting your opponent.
Come on, grace. I'm not desperate, I just advised you to answer it because last time, you couldn't answer it and decided to go away with that. No need for emotion, excuse and personal attack here.
Oh, my dear fatty little pet calf, Sanada_10, that moooo….you're so troublesome. If you're desperate for my answers, then wait till I'm really free then. By that time, you'll became a bull then, and I'll decide if I should castrate you, my dear pet Sanada_10, and turn you into an ox for good. 🙂
Oh, my dear friend, John K and my dear pet fatty calf, Sanada_10, don't you guys know that I've got a good sense of humour? 🙂
MTM,
I stumbled upon a site a few months back that attacks the technicality of the Quran.
As you know, most Anti-Islamic sites attack Quran based on its absurdities and and nonsense-ness.
But that site focuses primarily on the technicality, such as the use of words, longness and shortness of surahs, words and sentences inconsistencies etc.
It theorized that Quran is a work of multiple people, arguably though it may be.
But that site has a way of putting bits and pieces together so the readers can relate easily why Quran is definitely not the word of God.
I wish i can remember the site though. 🙁
The Muslims I know always try to tell me to use logic. SO here is my own logic. The bible is a book written by many authors over many years & life spans. The beauty of the Bible is its harmony. All those authors and it has 1 theme. So that tells me 1 author = God. The Quran is the words of one man in one lifetime & it started in a cave. Most of the Prophets in the Bible were tortured & killed for what they were saying. They weren’t the ones out there killing. Besides those two big differences, no one can legitimately disprove the Bible. All arguments I’ve heard are people purposefully taking it out of context. No other book in history has been dissected & none other could hold up to the scrutiny it has. So that alone tells me it’s the word of God. One thing I see are people have the wrong info on the gospels. I know Muslims think they were written 300 yrs after Christ but truth is they are eye witness accounts of Christ from the very people who saw them. 3 diff men interviewed & researched witnesses. John was a firsthand witness. They were all written within 40 yrs after the crucifixion. I recommend The Case for Christ to anyone who wants to see the hard evidence of Christ. Someone once said that God supplied no greater evidence than that of the life, death, & resurrection of Jesus.
here is my email
faithfreedom2 at gmail.com
Abdullah,
Why do you think your typical muslim opinions on Ali Sina matters? What matters is your argument. But i guess your arguments does not matter anymore. You have nothing more to bring except lies and ad hominems and little bit of both like a sore loser that you are.
And yes, Muhammad was a leader. But not all leaders are rightful leaders.
Hitler said “Kill, Destroy, Sack, Tell lie; what you want after victory nobody asking you why”
Stalin said “A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.”
Muhammad said “Through terror i have been made victorious.”
I’m a sane person. I do not want those people to be my leaders.
And a sane person that i am, i do not want to go out and do like Muhammad did. Muhammad was never under any danger. When he was weak, uncle Abu Talib got his back. When he was strong and killing everybody, his band thugs protected him.
And please remember that Islam answers criticism with what Islam knows best. Murders! Like the case Asma Bint Marwan and many others. Muhammad, Allah and Islam have no answers for critics. So they kill them. Exactly what Stalin did. These people are the same.
Sometimes i think i want to go out and killing everybody like Muhammad did. But what would that makes me? A muhammad. The last thing the world needs right now is another muhammad.
War is certain against muslims. But in this war, no blood will be shed. It’s a war to make muslims seeing the truth. Each muslim see the truth, they become the foot soldier in a strive for the better humanity without Islam.
If you look at "Contact" in the "About" Menu selection, you will see his email:
faithfreedom2(at) gmail.com
Please give me an email so I can send you my address. I dont want it to appear to everybody.
Thank you.
It sounds as much to me like she has a cocky supremacist attitude.
No, but a security minded person would go to the mosque with a SEAL team.
@ Juste
No I didn't attack your hero here. I am just questioning why a man with no experience of leading a group of people talks so much about a man considered leader by his people. I mean to say, if he were in the same shoes, would have he been any better?
Juste,
fact 1:
You were the one who said: "What if I go to mosque and advise Muslims the same as Muhammad did?"
fact 2:
You are sure that you are on the right path and Muslims on the wrong path.
So,
based on the 2 facts, do you have guts now to do what you have in mind (to tell Muslims in mosque that they are wrong and you are right)?
Come on, Juste…..
A rightful person never hesitates. 🙂
This footsoldier of Allah is waging a verbal jihad, using taqiyyah.
Right. I appreciate what you are thinking. I was just hoping she was using a pun for humor rather than being malicious.
Well, I use that name to symbolize things such as, 1) Muhammad's short name, 2) muslimah's condition, 3) muslim's condition in general who are like cattle being herded by the shepherd.
See? John K has agreed with me. There is no need to do that here since the comment system is like this. Better go to original place, grace. It's not hard, just go to there and try to answer one by one.
Email me your email address.
Yes please send me the pdf file. I will try to make him read it. Although you know Muslims refuse to read anything which is against Islam or Mohammed. They say and argue they are muslims but understand very little about Islam. My husband is abusive sometimes and justifies this by saying women dont have adequate brains and religion as is told by the Quraan.
Thank you
After resorted a personal attack against Sina, the muslim implied that Muhammad was a noble man. Even after proven a pedophile beyond a reasonable doubt. (Please Abdullah. Read your books)
After that, the muslim suddenly moved to yet another irrelevant topic.
Nothing new here, it’s only muslims and their dual view of seeing things. Amazing!
It's probably best to take off-topic personal conversations to private messaging in Freedom Bulwark.
Oh, my dear Sanada_10, why do you feel bad for the readers for bringing unrelated topic to this place when you're the one who suggested it? Wouldn't it be good for you, my dear prize fatty calf, to throw me a good question here and we'll discuss it then? It's too tedious to look for all your questions in FFI.
Touché!
I was rather hoping that she meant it in good humor though. Something about the old Mooo nickname, as in Moo Cow.
Same to you, how do you prove Muhammad's prophet hood, looks, attitude etc? Going to the past? Religion is nothing more than bookish system. It depends on the people who follow that "rule" in the book. It works both ways, auntie.
I feel bad about the readers for bringing unrelated topic to this place but if you insist then you can read those points in there and answer it in here.
My dear fatty calf, Sanada_10, do you mean that you want to continue our discussion in FFI and not here?
She was desperate and resorted to personal attack. Who knows, maybe she is the one who is overweight (literally) and decided to change that by calling herself "beautiful".
Ah, finding excuse eh? No matter, those points are still available in FFI.org, in Palestinian debate article.
Oh? How did you get this gem of information? Well, either way, maybe Sanada 10 doesn't want private information aired in public.
@ Sina
And how are you gonna prove that Mr. Hero? Going to the past and see it for your self that she was 6 or 9 or 19?
What I see stranger is the way you have been accusing this noble man. You talk a lot and hide, like I said.
Similar question to Agracean. How are you gonna prove that Jesus looked exactly like what you people picture him on the Cross. Has it been passed on extra carefully so there has been no mistake in picturing him? Are you sure that this is not a man-made belief by people around him to justify their non-protective respond when seeing a prophet about to be crucified?
Dear John K, do you know the fact that my dear prize fatty calf, Sanada_10, is overweight? I guess it's time for me to prescribe some weight management supplements to help him reduce some fat.
No, my dear prize fatty calf, Sanada_10, it's not that I refused to answer all your 18 points. It's just that I've got to leave FFI for a while. Why don't we go through point by point, which is much more easier to answer this way?
You had rejected that in FFI.org, remember? I posted 18 points and you refused that.
And who are you calling overweight? :p
Oh, my dear prize fatty calf, Sanada_10, besides missing all your moo moo here and moo moo there, I also miss all our past discussion about the absolute truth. Yes, it's far from finished and do let me know if we can continue this awesome discussion one fine day. Wouldn't it be good if my dear hero, Dr Ali Sina, could join us too? With him around, there'll be love in the air. 🙂
Don't mind me, I'm just a spectator, watching 2 "heavy weights" in action. Don't want to start our past discussion, do we? It's far from finished.
Irrelevant comparison. Kid's age is easily estimated through her physical presence and her parents. On the other hand, old grandma is harder to estimate because old people looks the same. You can see the difference between 6, 9, 12 or 15 (body is still growing) but you cannot see it between 90 and 100 (body has already stopped growing and the aging estimation is blurred).
Oh Mr Sanada_10, my dear fatty little calf, how I miss your moooo….
Come on auntie, belief doesn't answer the age of Aisha but the data does. All I want is authentic data that has been proven scientifically that she was 15, no mix match, no assumption, no accusation and no faith, just pure fact. Now, back to pedophilia in Quran, runner.
Ah, at last you do my proposal. Keep it up.
Done that intelligently. Read the answer and don't repeat the question. Answer my 4 points about Jesus. These 4 points require intelligence to know why Allah did that. Care to answer it, runner?
Belief doesn't equal to fact and "deeper study" is not possible. The text "editing" is closed, beside if you keep doing this to a scripture and ancient document you will ended up changing its original meaning which had been preserved by people in the past. That's not a beauty but blasphemy.
Obviously you are clueless about the topic.
Mr Abdullah ihsan, do you know that your allah is not God at all? Have you watched this movie, 'Mama Mia'? You must know the fact that you have only one biological father and you don't address every man down the street as your father, right? So, it's the same with God. You ought to find out the true identity of this Muhammad bin abdullah's halal allah and then, you will realize that Muhammad bin abdullah lied and the truth is that his allah is not my loving Creator God at all!
Hi Mr Abdullah ihsan, it's really polite and honest for a diehard muslim like you to admit guilty to all of Muhammad ibn Abdullah's wicked deeds. Muhammad ibn Abdullah must be very pleased with you. 🙂
The real reason for you not to engage with me in exposing all the horrible deeds and lies of that morally degenate mostrous prophet is because your testerone is running dry as you knew that I really do love my loving Creator God, Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life and you are fearful that my God of Truth will expose all of Muhammad ibn Abdullah's despicable lies which will further decrease your production of testerone in your testes.
Yes, I do love my loving Creator God very much as per your above comments and because of this good reason, I have to stand up for the truth that your Muhammad ibn Abdullah was a false prophet and a horrible cult leader and his halal allah was the devil in disguise and the Quran is a pack of lies.
Engage?
Since when do you think you are “engaging” anybody?
Running in circles don’t count Abdullah.
@ John K
Yes, intelligence is required to have a deeper study why Jesus is reported to have bowed down with his face to the earth and prayed.
Seriously. 🙂
@ Agracean
Thanks for the judgment. 🙂
At first I didn’t want to engage in you for I have noticed that you really love your God. But I wonder if you do love Him so much, then why are you insulting Him? 🙂
Diana Wrote :@Ria : I'm glad that reading quraan didn't affect you and u chose the light <3 , too bad his heart was too filled with darkness :/ . God bless You
Diana
Reading the quran does not affect anyone in a positive way. It is the not reading of the quran people are blinded. Reading and Understanding goes a long. Can save ones soul and someones elses life.
I think that Mr Abdullah ihsan is just a typical muslim who has lost his senses to that morally degenerate monster prophet. He will support and advocate whatever nonsense that monster decreed because questioning and investigation are not allowed in this cult. Death and hell are the portions for those brave muslims who decided to escape from this cultic sinkhole.
“I still believe that Aisha was in her late teens when Rasulullah married her. ”
Does it mean that if it is proven to you that she was only a child when Muhammad raped her you’d lose your faith in that morally degenerate man or you’ll change strategy and bring all sorts of arguments to prove that what Muhammad did was correct and the best age to take someone as wife is in her pre-pubescence?
Muslims are strange creatures. They deny something attributed to Muhammad categorically until they are cornered and can no longer deny it. At that moment they shift their position and start defending the very thing that a moment earlier they were denying.
"That is the beauty of Islam"
English translation: you can believe whatever you want. Intelligence not required.
If she wanted help, there are plenty of organizations, depending on the country. But if this is what she wants, no one can stop her. See if you can get her to read Dr. Sina's book.
Desperate Ihsan?
“I still believe that Aisha was in her late teens when Rasulullah married her”.
Your belief, Isaac’s, mine even Sina’s are IRRELEVANT. HADITHS are SELF-EXPLANATORY. Nobody’s belief is relevant. Muhammad is a CONFIRMED CRIMINAL. In this case a paedophile.
Even if by some miracle these MUTAWATIR HADITHS are proven invalid. That will render the entire Islamic texts QUESTIONNABLE. Much more so than already is. A dilemma.
.
“That is the beauty of Islam. Deeper studies on Hadiths are still
possible to be conducted and the hadiths themselves are as open to disbelievers as they are to Muslims”.
Argumentum ad nauseaum.
You can not debunk us, instead you try to bore us to death with your useless rhetorics.
This is not beauty. This is a dilemma. Islam is an abberration.
.
“Why is that?”
Sina just said it in his previous post. READ AND THINK.
.
“support your accusation against Rasulullah as a pedophile”.
Okay, Logic Time!
Use the head, don’t lose it.
This man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes
ONLY KILLED ONE PERSON.
HIS VICTIM WAS VOLUNTARY.
THAT MAKES HIM A MURDERER.
HE SERVES A LIFE SENTENCE.
Muhammad:
ONLY HAD SEX WITH ONE CHILD.
HIS VICTIM WAS ALSO VOLUNTARY.
Well, Aisha was not exactly a voluteer. A six year old is in no position to either agree or disagree to a marriage.
THAT MAKES MUHAMMAD A PAEDOPHILE.
BOTH MEN ARE CONFIRMED CRIMINALS.
What makes Meiwes better than Muhammad is that Meiwes only guilty of one charge of crime.
@ Sina
Ha ha
No Sina,
Don't be glad too easily because I still believe that Aisha was in her late teens when Rasulullah married her. That is the beauty of Islam. Deeper studies on Hadiths are still possible to be conducted and the hadiths themselves are as open to disbelievers as they are to Muslims.
What I see FUNNY about you is that you insisted the authenticity of some hadiths with numbers (exact ages) narrated by some Arabs and used them to support your accusation against Rasulullah as a pedophile, but when speechless (like in your exchange with isaac wood), you forgetfully accused the Arabs of being NOT PRECISE with numbers. 🙂
And why is that?
Abdullah,
I am glad to see that you are embarassed that Muhammad had sex with a child and are doing your best to hide that truth and deny it. But you are out of luck. It is easy for people to think someone is 100 when she is 90. My great grand mother was old when she died. No one knew her exact age. My mother thought she was 90 and my uncle belived she was 95. Now these were her own grand children who were not sure about her age. She had an id card but her date of birth was not reliable. Id’s became mandatroy in 1928 in Iran. Even my mother who was born after this date is not sure about her age. She says one day her father went to town and god id cards for all his four children. He made up their date of birth as either he did not remember or deliberately to make her dauthers look older and eligible for marriage sooner. Sons on the other hand were made younger so they dely their military service.
It is very possible for people around Asma to have been confused about her age. But how can Aisha forget the fact that she was playing on a swing when her mother came took her away and washed her face and then took her to Muhammad’s house. How could she forget that her doll were with her? How could she forget that her friends used to come to Muhammad’s house to paly with her and would hide when Muhammdad came to the room and that Muhammad would call them and play with them? There are tons of details like these that confrim the age of Aisha was six. She said nothing surpised me more than when the Praphet came to me in that forenoon. She did not know what was going on and why this man was touching and playing with her. She said she burst into laugher. That is the laughter of embarassment.
If truth is painful then ignore it. Live your lfie in a lie and don’t bother. Are you a masochist? You are pained to hear that Muhammad was a pedophile. You try to deny that fact, So why you read this site? Millions of Muslims live thier lives happliy and keep their heads deep in the sand. You can do the same. But you come here and torture yourself reading all the truth and get hurt. Either accept the truth and leave Islam or don’t bother with the truth. Live in your world of lies and be happy.
@ sina
In your reply to isaac wood in "Aisha the child bride of Muhammad", was that you who said:
"Don't pay too much attention to numbers when you hear them from Arabs. They were not precise with numbers. Another hadith says that Asma, sister of Aisha died at the age of 100. In reality she died at the age of 90."
Isn't it you who insisted that Aisha was six years old when married? 🙂
Didn't you rely heavily on this 'six' number to support your accusation against Rasulullah as being a pedophile? 🙂
Or 'six' is not a number, perhaps? 🙂
And those who narrated the hadiths were not Arabs? 🙂
“Is there an organization that can help them?”
Mafia!
Now although I am only kidding, the truth is that Muslims understand the language of force very well.
I have a friend whose 18 year old daughter is involved with a 44 year old muslim man. The family has tried to stop this relationship but the daughter is convinced he is going to divorce his wife and marry her. Some of the men in the family went to the boyfriend and asked that he leave the girl alone. He told them she belongs to him and there is nothng they can do about it, not even she can don anyting about it. Is there an organization that can help them?
Super article indeed. My father has been seeking for this tips.
Great advice. I like the explanations of how to teach humanity without criticizing Islam and the strategy to get him to read the book.
Hi Amoun,
The first important thing is to keep the unity of the family intact. Nothing is more damaging to the children than fighting among parents. Fighting over religion is the stupidest of all fighting.
However, you can help your children to become inquisitive by encouraging them to doubt everything. Tell them they must not believe in anything unless they have investigated it themselves and that even grownups can be wrong. The whole world can be wrong. There was a time that everyone believed the Earth is flat but everyone was wrong. This will be a great foundation for them to not believe anything credulously.
Another thing you can do is to tell them all people are the same. Everyone has the same feelings, needs and hopes. Others are just like them. If there is a god who created all the people, he must have loved everyone. So encourage them to not see the non-Muslims as inferior. A person who can love all the people cannot remain a Muslim for long and vice versa, one who starts believing in Islam, starts hating humanity.
These are good foundations. Even if you don’t say a word about religion to them they will eventually find their way if they learn these elemental lessons.
To your husband you can say how much you admire his knowledge and intelligence and because of that you would like him to read a book that is written against Muhammad and help you understand its errors so your faith becomes stronger. If you wish to do so I can send you a pdf version of the earlier edition of my book. Read it and encourage him to read it, but don’t challenge him. Present it as if you require him to explain things to you and never argue with him even if his explanation is silly. Nod and agree, but keep asking more questions. Eventually he will realize he is talking baloney and fooling himself. Once the seed of doubt is sown in him, he will be on his way to leaving Islam. If you can trick him to read my book he will leave Islam.
Wish you the best
Ali
Hi,
I am a muslim woman who left islam secretly married to a muslim man. I have two children 4 and 6 years. How can I raise them to become non muslims?
True enough. When she sees an answer she will examine it first in order to know if she likes it or not. If she dislikes it then …
Auntie of the garden is only here to wage verbal jihad. She is not interested in listening to any message sent from an advanced civilization trying to save her from herself. I'm sure a visit by an alien spaceship trying to tell her the same things wouldn't get any more respect from her. They would probably say the ship was from a Jewish planet.
Who?
I know someone who keeps shooting at the messenger.
Unfortunately you get factual answers here. Don't shoot the messenger.
The population is on a bell curve. There are just as many good people as bad people.
So it means you had Christian men before? How many?
Good treatment? Such as? Let's compare it to Islamic teaching just to know that whether he is practicing his faith or not.
Weird ! How people get rude when
they are cornered.
You intruded once between me and
the girls, and my reaction
was not that bad.
Very nice.
But you must be realistic in your dreams.
Dream of a rewarding career, dream of a high position..etc
You will achieve it if you are diligent.
But if you chase a mirage, you will reap only
disappointment and sorrow.
And love is a mirage in the desert of life.
You know Mona, there is a different between hate speech and telling the truth. Besides, i was asking Jen about it. I was bewildered when she said the word “hate speech”.
What do the Christians doing here? Well for one, Dina is a Christian. Who has a muslim boyfriend. Was she wrong to ask Sina for advice? Everybody has asked Sina for advice. And there are people from every belief here, Atheists, Hindus, some Buddhists, maybe Jews. I’m not sure where you going with this question Mone.
Come up Juste !
Where do you want her to point ? All of it is hate.
You said Muslims follow the teaching of their prophet.
Then they have an excuse.
What excuse the Christians on this site have ??
There is a big difference.
Christians who commit atrocities are those that are not following their teaching properly.
Muslims who commit atrocities are those following their teaching properly.
Who do you think good muslims eventually be? Muhammad.
Is Muhammad a fine example of humanity? Uh-uh…
Please read: Why Only Attack Islam.
An article in this site.
Come up Jen. Where is this “hate speech” you see. Point me to it.
i am a devout christian and i am HORRIFIED by this website. i came here for commonsense answers, not hate speech.
this reply is DISGUSTING. i am married to a muslim man and though i do not agree with his faith, he treats me better than even any christian man ever has. you act like all muslims are baby killers! what about "christians" who murder abortion doctors? do you put them in the same category as us? you should be ashamed of yourself. YOU are spreading hate with this appauling misinformation. get your nose back in the bible that has been collecting dust on your coffee table!!!
Runaway right now, Dina, but be very cautious. I know you can outsmart him because he is a muslim. I am so worried for you right now.
Muhammad wrote the Quran to satisfy his personal desires and to force people to obey him.
Spinning and twisting just like "you know who" here? Still, it doesn't answer the question as why the creator of this vast universe can feel that "monstrosity" over a petty issue like this. Widows did need support from men at that time thanks to Muhammad's misogynist standard but the creator just didn't care and chose his feeling (?).
I'm sorry that the people who subscribed to a religion ruined your life. I hope you can find a way to put things right for yourself to get past that period of your life.
RELIGION
Religion does influence people's worldview. I do not disagree with you on that point. However, you are only looking at one side of the coin. What do you think of religious people who do charity work all over the world? How about religious people who live a peaceful life and work hard to be an asset to their communities? Since you are willing to blame religion for the atrocities done in its name, would you be as willing to give credit to religion for the positive influences it has had on individuals and entire societies?
PREJUDICES
Well, I'm addressing you in particular, not all the readers of this blog or even of this thread. Let's not get sidetracked. I expressed my disagreement with your "judgmental attitude", and I stand by it. I think I have adequately explained why I think so. What prejudice have I demonstrated against you?
WELL-EDUCATED READERS OF THIS PAGE
I'm a fairly new reader of this site, and I have seen enough arguments against the religion of Islam, not to mention of Christianity and Hinduism, in the comments section to completely disagree with your statement. Further, the purpose of this site is to expose the "flaws and vices" of Islam, and it has a very large following. What exactly are you looking for? How can you confidently make that claim about ALL well-educated readers of the site?
You seem so absorbed in your bitterness and anger that you are just content to lash out. I don't say that to pass judgment on you. It's simply my observation based on your comments. I hope that this is merely a phase, and I hope it will not last too long.
Also, you are clearly not religious, and yet you are being "extremely emotional" and seemingly "unbalanced". This is a state that humans are susceptible to, religious and non-religious alike.
DINA'S FUTURE CHOICES
Who knows the future? You are applying–dare I say, forcing–your past experiences on Dina's future, and then criticizing her for it. You can regret your own past choices, but you cannot impose your regrets on someone else.
IF YOU KNOW WHAT IS HIDDEN
I pose a similar question: How would you know what is hidden? I think you would agree with me that the future is hidden to us. How should we know if what is hidden is better or worse than what we have today? We can only know it by living through the day.
With regards to marriage, you yourself said this: "No, not pessimistic, but a realistic and an observer. All what I said was deduced from what I see in the real life and what I read and hear. Perhaps you find a happy couple every now and then, but this is very rare."
What does that imply? It implies that regardless of your observations of many failed marriages, successful marriages still exist, even in your small sphere of experience (that is, relative to the world at large).
You choose to believe that all marriages will lead to unhappiness and disregard the few that do lead to happiness. Others choose a more hopeful outlook and enter marriage even while quite aware that problems will arise sometime in their future.
We cannot always avoid the pitfalls of tomorrow and yet for many, it's not enough reason to stop making choices that could lead them to a happy future.
I wish you happiness in your own journey.
It's easy to judge others. We often forget that people are not static objects and can change. I know some people are stuck in a rut, like Muslims who won't deviate from the Quran, but open-minded people are always looking for what is right and their ideas change when the learn something new or they get a different perspective on things.
Do you know how much irritating it is when you judge someone
according to what she said first, and then suddenly she
changes her mind?
You feel as if you were fooled or tricked !
"I don't think you realize how much your bitterness shows through your comment's."
Correct ! you are right . I am feeling bitter and mad as well; and do
you know why? I do not have a reason to lie, because you do not
know me, so I promise to tell the truth. This is where my bitterness
came from: the religion ruined my life. Religion (any religion) turns
a brother against a brother, a sister against a sister, a nation
against a nation.'
"Whatever caused you this much pain, I sincerely hope you will find healing. "
Thank you. But your wish for me will not come true, because the
damage the religion caused to me is irreversible.
Do not tell me this is better that that. I am sure you know it when
they used to burn, what they call witches alive…..and when they
used to hang cats in Europe on the gates of the churches.
All that, for the sake of religion.
And it is still causing damages and pain and killing, and
the people do not want to know.
I am very surprised: all these well-educated people on this page
and they do not know that every religion has its flaws and vices.
"Your prejudice is palpable."
I wish if say this sentence to the rest of readers. Because if you
don't, then you are showing prejudice as well………..and you do not
want to criticize someone for certain vices while you have the same.
When Dina marries her future boyfriend whom I assume will
be Christian, every time she is troubled by him, she would say
to herself: I did a bad choice.
If you know what is hidden, you would choose what you
already have !
Sad MN, that is really sad. I even know a Indian Christian whose name was x but he married a muslim girl. He fell in love with her. He had to change his religion and his name to marry her. Foolish guy he did change is religion to Islam and his name to Abdulla……
Yes, she can talk for herself, and she has done so. It's just apparent that you didn't take the time to "listen" to what she had to say. Your attempt at rebuking me for "not helping" is quite ironic, considering the fact that you insulted her for falling in-love with a Muslim. It does not help to verbally abuse anyone. Also, I did share my thoughts about her situation very early on.
I'm not trying to be her "lawyer". I did not say what I said for her sake. Her email and and comments very clearly demonstrate that she is more than "incapable". I was merely pointing out to you that it does not help to simply assume that you know what decisions people will make based solely on your experiences with others. I'm sure you will not appreciate it if people will tell you that they can predict what you will do in a certain situation, because they have come across a number of people with similar stories like yours.
"Typical ! People like you find things that do not agree with their limited mentality, very repugnant. "
What does that even mean? I don't have any problems with listening to opposing views. It helps me learn. Everyone has a "limited mentality". None of us know and understand everything. I wouldn't look down my nose at a doctor for not knowing the legal system like a lawyer does, nor would I look down on an 18-year-old for not knowing much about marriage like a 50-year-old does.
So again, I left my comment, not for Dina's sake but for yours. I don't think you realize how much your bitterness shows through your comments. Your prejudice is palpable. Whatever caused you this much pain, I sincerely hope you will find healing.
It doesn't hurt to show compassion for people who may be in the path of pain as you and I have experienced.
But Muslims will spin it and say that Muhammad did a great benevolence to her because a woman left alone in the desert would die, and now she would have Muhammad to love her and take care of her, thus reducing women to the level of taking pity on a stray dog. Who cares about her feelings.
Mona,
I’m not saying that what you said was wrong or anything. It’s just that, there is no way for us to know what she has gone through.
Suppose if Sina publish your story, and somebody commented that you are either dishonest or wishy-washy, i would say, on your favor, that commenter might be a little too fast in passing judgement.
You said you live in the US right? I can only imagine how hard it must be being a Christian Arab woman in their own land.
I’m not taking sides here, my side is those who oppose Islam.
Marrying his widows = monstrous thing to the creator of universe.
One more of Islamic BS.
Well, that's an assumption. We shouldn't allow a pessimistic point of view to rob us of our ideals and dreams.
@ monalisa : go get a life away from here huh ! I didn’t publish anything I emailed it to Dr.sina and he thought it wld be a good idea to publish it an interact with people and I dnt mind that
But u r not welcomed babe , get a life and dnt interfere
They are actors
Cute……..and I mean it
I think she can talk for herself.
And if you think you are helping her by playing a lawyer,
you are very mistaken, because you are showing
her how incapable she is.
Typical ! People like you find things that do not agree
with their limited mentality, very repugnant.
I ow an apology to myself for wasting my spare time.
Hi Juste,
I agree with you. And I for one wasn’t trying to get in a cartfight. I see one troublemaker here who seems to have to reply to everyone negatively. I dont mean to offend anyone and sorry if I have. I just can’t stand judging or belittling someone for asking advice. To me, that takes strength & wisdom. Even if the advice is not used. I do stand by my comments to Muslims though. And while I agree with Mr Sina on the teachings of Islam, I’m sure he’ll agree that not all are mean or evil. They’ve just been misled their whole lives. I have compassion for my husband & all that I’ve met. Leaving Islam is not easy. It could mean losing their families, friends, & even life. But I still hope they will be brave enough to seek the truth. and not angry with us for bringing it to light.
Sorry, don’t mean to buzz in.
I think you girls are getting a bit anxious.
Don’t get me wrong, i do love occasional catfights, 😉 but it’s kinda pity to see you girls resort to unecessary ad-hominems.
Please consider this request.
If you do not feel that you are doing so, please ignore this comment. Play nice girls.
Sorry for buzzing in…
Monalisa, you are very quick to judge people. Your experience with other might tell you what she MAY do, but Dina is NOT those other people and those other people are not DIna. I can delude myself into thinking that I know what she will do since I had personal experience, but that's all it is–a delusion. Dina is a different person who makes her own decisions according to her own principles and circumstances.
Your judgmental attitude it repugnant to see.
Very well put.
I think you are generalizing too much here, and by that I mean, you seem to think anyone who sincerely believes in a religion is "extremely emotional and unbalanced."
Since I am a Christian, let me point out to you intellectual Christians who are religious but not "extremely emotional and unbalanced":
William Craig Lane – Philosopher
John Lennox – Oxford Mathematician
Alister E. McGrath – former atheist, scientist, and now Christian apologist
In fact, I refer you to apologetics315.blogspot.com where you can find logical arguments for the Christian faith. You don't have to agree with any of it, but to make the statement that you just made is very prejudiced.
Hmmm. I am from the US too, and while it is heartbreaking that divorce is so high, I still know many, many happy couples and families that I deeply admire for their success, happiness, and good example. I say that not having been successful myself.
I said: Either she is not completely honest, or she is a wishy-washy.
I believe the second part fits more.
I missed one point:
I was not offended at all because she did not consider my suggestion.
Because I know well that today she is taking your advice, and tomorrow
she will meet her boyfriend who will tell her something different,
then she will say, he is right. The third day she will meet her girlfriend and
say, this is probably the right thing.
Many of such a "type" came across my life.
Yes every body has the right to opine. But you insulted her for no reason and called her dishonest.
What a pity ! is that all your knowledge about animal?
So let me inform you a little bit.
Animals need more than food and shelter and mating,
they need to be loved and cared for. That's why you see the pampered pets live
longer than others.
Animals have sense and reason, if you were an observer, you would
notice that everything they do is right. (Watch the cat when she gives birth,
watch the bird building a nest)
You said : "They don't know right from wrong. (If they did, then why don't we start prosecuting predators for eating prey??"
I see… Who will prosecute the humans when they slaughter animals and kill
them in the most savage manner?
The animals kill when they are hungry, the humans kill for greed.
Which of them does not know right from wrong?
As for religions, those three religions were derived from ancient mythologies
and paganism. From the ancient Egyptian and Greek and Babylonian myths.
I do not have time now to explain to you, but if you go to the YouTube,
and watch : The Truth about Religion (part 1, 2 and 3 ), you will get the message.
As for you final question: I have been married to a Muslim, and then to a Christian.
Each was a dud. Each had his vices.
(You see now that her question is related to religions and God).
It seems that when you married him
your brain was not in your head,
it was "elsewhere" !
I'll stick to believing to the One who was there. If you've ever truly studied about the Bible, you will see that most of the stories were written BEFORE the fact, yet they are proven in history. Thus, a prophecy. And the first five were written by Moses, many generations after the fact, so how would he know, right? Well there is ONE who has been there through it all. And will be there through it all. When your little life is over, He will still be there. My faith is not based on what I see in books or movies. But on my own PERSONAL relationship with Him. He's as real to me as my husband is. So you really shouldn't call people names. You can say we're silly for believing. And I could say something about you for not. Dina didn't ask you for your opinion about God. She asked for opinions about being married to a muslim. Have you ever been married to a muslim? Had real life experiences with one? You shouldn't be insulted for her not taking your advice. You should commend her for her realizing that this is not the best choice for her, even though she does care for this man. When the heart is involved it is extremely difficult to let go. That takes guts.
Us humans are not just other "animals". If that were true then why is it that only humans have complex thoughts. All animals think about is food, shelter, and mating. They don't decide a career, or write books, or do anything than basic survival. They don't know right from wrong. (If they did, then why don't we start prosecuting predators for eating prey??) So then ask, why are we different??? And I am really curious why "science" is the determining factor? Science, if any beliefs are, is a manmade belief. All science is human theories. So why is it the superior source? A man thinks such and such, so he sets out to prove it. Talk about clouded judgement. Whenever the experiments go their way, then it must be true, Whenever it doesn't, must be something wrong with the experiment. It's never the hypothesis, right?
Monalisa: A video doesn't prove God doesn't exist. And the funny thing is it takes more faith to not believe in God than it does to believe in Him. Why? B/c there is more evidence proving He exists than doesn't. You could take all the parts of a watch and put it into a bag and shake it up for a billion years and it wouldn't turn into a watch. You could take a whole bunch of words and mix them together and it wouldn't create a book. Logically, you would need some kind of "intelligent" organization.
U.S.A
Agree 100%
Religious people are extremely emotional and unbalanced.
Any of them can turn your life to hell if you end up living
with him/her.
Bottom line is, don't marry any religious person regardless what their religion. Pious persons inclines to be irrational. Married to a humanist is safer.
Your replies prove that you have no brain at all.
Don't you know that you gave the whole world a permission to interfere
with your problem when you published it?
And now you tell me to mind my own business?
Perhaps because you want to select only the answers that you like.
Your God is imaginary, he did not even exist.
If you watche the video I mentioned, perhaps you will understand what I mean.
Silly girl.
@monalisa : again mind υя own business please 😉
@John & juste : thanks for υя time nd advice 🙂 I will take them into consideration 🙂
@married to a muslim : your comment made me shiver ! I see how much faith u have , it’s amazing . I would like to discuss everything with you in a more private way so please email me or something if you can : [email protected]
There's too many stories of Muslim men who came to the US, lost interest in Islam, married an American, and then decided to go back home and take their wives to live under Islam as they revert to Islam in their native environment.
To all those making judgmental comments, go somewhere else. At least Dina had the sense enough to ask before she did it. And now she’s showing the courage to walk away. If you have not been in the situation or have no real life experience with Muslims then your opinion is just that. Mine & Dr Sina’s is first hand.
My next cOmment is for the still believing Muslims. One of the biggest deceptions I see in my husband & in Islam is that believing Christ is a prophet is good enough. There is no book in all of history as well preserved as the Bible. There is no greater evidence in this world than the life, death, & resurrection of Jesus Christ. Willful ignorance will not be an excuse when we stand before Him. My challenge is this. One my husband is not brave enough to take. Research Christ for yourself. An unsecured God will not have to forbid being questioned as Allah does. My God is big enough to not only take them but answer them as well. If you seek with a willing heart, He will show you the truth. And then you have to decide if you are brave enough to accept it. People deny Christ not bc it’s impossible or no evidence. They deny Him bc He calls us to deny ourselves. All of us love ourselves more than anything.
To Dina. One more thing to consider that I did not. Me being willing to compromise my faith & chose a man over Christ made Christ look like He is not that important. Or even weak in my husbands eyes. But if you show this man that there is nothing, not even love worth your relationship with Christ, it will make him wonder who this Christ is that is worth so much to you. Don’t risk sticking around & involving your heart more. Trust God that He has something better. Even saved, this man may not be who He has planned for you. Seek Him on finding your husband. He will provide & believe me His choice will be so much more fulfilling bc he will be exactly what you need.
That's sad. Is it maybe a product of your local culture? What country are you in? Do you live among Muslims or non-Muslims?
Dear Dina,
Where is your sanity?
If I were you, I will not need to think any longer, I will just leave him, no need to give him any chance or to expect he will turn into better man. You can give the book about true Islam, but that’s it, don’t expect him to be saved and after that you can marry him. Because psychology issues take years to be healed, even though he is now realized that Islam doctrine is nothing than hatred, it doesn’t mean he will suddenly change totally, because somehow the doctrine may still live in his unconscious mind without even realize it. Let’s say the doctrine about beating wife, he may let go his faith, but how do you know that this “beating wife” has already gone from his unconscious mind?
Fall in love is not everything, people fell in love, they got marry, then they got divorce, then can fall in love again.
If you still hard to let him go, cause somehow you still in love with him, no matter he made you frightened sometime, go ahead, marry him, spend your life with him (and with his other wives later), give your self to him, raise his children, love him, and dedicate your self to him as he will ask you to do that because his religion ordered woman to devoted herself to her husband, like human do to God. Don’t think again, go ahead marry him.
Hi Dina, Believe me I wish I could leave but have not felt I’m free to do so. I do not feel God has released me yet to do so. When I feel it, I will. I have learned to let God direct all my paths & disobedience is only heartache. I offer one more bit of advice. My advice is for you not to stick around for his conversion. First, the longer you wait to break it, the harder it will be. If you feel you must supply him with the tools hand him a Bible & the book by Dr Sina. Then walk away & leave it in the hands of Christ. If he is willing he will pursue it on his own. Plant the seed & walk away. Trust in the Lords sovereignty. If it’s meant that you marry this man make it be in Gods timing & way. Take care & be careful. They can be extremely nasty when their beliefs are challenged.
No, not a pessimistic, but a realistic and an observer.
All what I said was deduced from what I see in the real life and what
I read and hear.
Perhaps you find a happy couple every now and then,
but this is very rare.
At first, I evaluated you according to the information you provided, just to find out that
they were misleading.
Perhaps the god (Mohammad) of your boyfriend is evil, but he is real.
Go the the YouTube and watch this video: The Truth about Religion
then you will find out that you are living in a mirage.
I tell you what: LEAVE your lover, and he will be the winner.
No one needs a partner who does not have a personality and cannot
even make a decision for herself.
Dina,
My advice to you if i may.
Do not get romantically involved with a muslim unless you are sure you can make him leave Islam.
Because if you are not sure, there is a possibility that he can change you instead.
If you go on into marriage, the chances are very much against you that your children will almost certainly become muslims especially because you live in Egypt.
Best Wishes…
Mona lisa , mind υя own business please , it’s my problem here nd u r not helping in any way 🙂
Dr.sina is right ! When I love him that’s why I thought fine I ll marry him but I dnt wnt the kinds to be muslims therefore I said let’s give them freedom of choice so that at least there’s a chance that they wldnt choose islam
But after thinking this through nd reading Dr.sina’s reply I decided that I shouldn’t go against my religion to marry someone who believes in something that spreads hate ! So I said I ll try to make him convert so that he would at least believe in something that spreads love nd forgiveness and so that we would be compatiable enough nd avoid living a horrible life filled with problems afterwards!
So that’s the whole point , nothing about dishonesty dear
And next time I’d like you to save υя opinion on this 🙂
Too pessimistic. People who have long and happy marriages will tell you that it takes hard work and a great deal of patience and tolerance. But you cannot leave it in the realm of gambling. You have to get to know someone well enough to know that there is genuine mutual respect and commitment.
@ Sister B,
I wish if you show me how Islam is good to a woman.
Is it because it deprived her from half of her share in inheritance?
Is it because it gave the man the green light to beat her if she disobeyed him?
How about it if that man is wicked and he wants her to do wicked things?
Is it because it imposes Hijab on her and ordered her to cover herself from head
to toe, and let her to suffer the deadly heat in summer?
For your information, Hijab is harmful not only emotionally but also physically to a woman.
In Jordan the physicians did a research on women who wear Hijab, and they
found out that 95% of them lack Vitamin D, which is essential to the bones.
Because the body needs the sun ray.
Indeed! Be serious, Mr. Sina…….You must have noticed the contradiction in her writings.
In the beginning, she never said that he wants her to be a Muslim, she said he wants the
children to be raised as Muslims, but she wants them to be free to choose.
That was her problem then.
And now she came up with a new problem, she wants him to be a Christian, or else.
(Where is the freedom of choice?)
Marriage is exactly like gambling. In fact, it is gambling.
Why do I see many of them get divorce,
while the rest who remain married, are living unhappily everafter !
Sister B,
You are rehashing the Islamic nonsense without using your brain. I heard this BS and gobbled it uncritically just as you do, until I learned the truth. Just like you I defended Islam with these lies.
Female children were not buried alive in Hijaz. This is a lie. It goes against human nature. Where did all those Arab women come from? How could Arabs have multiple wives when women should have been scarce?
Women in Arabia had many rights that they lost after Islam. Khadijah was a merchant who employed men to work for her. She was not the only businesswomen of Arabia, Khunaas the mother of Mus’ab ibn Umair was also a wealthy influential businesswoman of Mecca. At the time of Muhammad many Arabs followed Sijah as a prophetess. After the death of Muhammad a young girl by the name of Salma rallied tens of thousands of men and fought against Muslims, in a war known the war of apostasy. Even Aisha led an army against Ali. Before Islam, and at the beginning of Islam when still the tradition of the Arabs had not been eradicated we see women as merchants, generals, and prophetesses. Why no woman has ever reached those stations after Islam?
Arabs even worshipped female deities. Muhammad scuffed at that and said, “what? For you sons and for Allah daughters? This is indeed an unfair division.” That misogynist thought it is denigrating for God to have daughters when other men boast having sons.
Women before Islam did not veil themselves. Even in the early years of Islam they did not veil. The ordinance of veiling came one day when Muhammad saw young men looking and smiling at his young wives. That is when he made his fictitious god send the following verse:
“And when you want something from the wives of the Prophet, ask them from behind a curtain. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it behoves you not to cause inconvenience to the Messenger of ALLAH, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him. That, indeed, is a monstrous thing in the sight of ALLAH.”” (Quran 33:53)
If you love lie, you have found the right religion, but if you want the truth, search it. I found the truth in the Quran. But I am smart and I read everything critically. Most people are not capable of that. So read my articles.
The unpredictability is precisely the problem. You wouldn't gamble your life away would you? You wouldn't play Russian roulette, would you? Of all decisions, the decision of who to marry must not be wrong.
So what is your first language?
Right. Sorry to see arranged marriages wherever they occur!
You should read the Quran to see what it says. Peaceable living and equality for all are not Islamic concepts. Rescuing female babies from death is a myth that has been amply debunked.
What is dishonest? I see no dishonesty in what she said. At first she thought she would marry this man if only her children are left free to choose. Now she realizes that she would never marry a Muslim unless he leaves Islam. She wants him to convert to Christianity. Having common belief helps in making the marriage work.
This man has a disease called islam. You cannot save him only he can do that. You can throw him the rope, but its up to him if he wants to take it or not. If he doesn`t want to take the rope, leave him to drown and don`t risk your own life trying to save him. If on the other hand, he takes the rope and decides to save himself, then pull him to land, just remember to give him time to heal and recover from his ordeal. After that he should be completely cured from the disease called islam.
In many cultures men are raised to believe they are superior to women this is not exclusive to Islam or muslims. Islam is a religion that promotes peaceable living and equality for all. the coming of Islam rescued female babies from death and gave women the right to inherit their Father wealth and freed slaves from captivity. the culture surrounding Islam is not Islam it is the culture. In America we see many people living together that are not married that is not an act of Christianity and is definatly against it but people do it. Same thing as people doing what they want in middle eastern countries. they are following practices that are accepted in their area but it doesnt mean they are allowed under the practice of their religion. Sadly < just like in the USA many muslim religious leaders and politicians distrot the meanings of the religion to acomodate the culture….
Thankfully you are saved. For others around here, please google the term "Love Jihad". There's not one trick in the book the Muslims of India have left unturned. They attacked us & are now living with us in Bharath – and yet, after 1500 yrs of Islamic slaughter & oppression, a solid 80% of us Hindus remain like a thorn in their leg.
.
It's slow, but I already feel them winning. They destroyed, Afghanistan (Buddhist when they got to it, Pagan-Hindu before Buddhism got there), Pakistan (same case), Bangladesh. They're trying their best for Kashmir right now; not so distant in the future they'll fight for Kanyakumari to be Muslim place too; just a matter of time.
.
MN
In the beginning you said that you want to give your children the freedom
of choice, and now you want your boyfriend to convert to Christianity.
I do not know what is it exactly that you want.
Either you are not completely honest with us,
or you are a wishy-washy person.
For a minute I thought you were going to say "That's why elders should decide who their younger ones should marry" – phew, it's a relief (when I read your full comment).
.
Back in my home turf (the hell-hole of India, about which we Indians are so proud of, of course), such "arranged marriages" are big-game, you know.
.
MN
Edhum help venum na sollunga sir..
.
I could try translating to Tamil too (my wife could help, since I don't have formal Tamil education). And Hindi too (which has been my 2nd language at school).
.
MN
I do not think that this will work.
Each one of you is pulling the rope from his/her end,
eventually the rope will break.
He wants his kids to be Muslims,
and you want him to accept Jesus.
No, sorry, it will not work.
Compromise is the only solution. Actually, compromise is
necessary for every marriage to succeed, not only
for your case.
Hi Dina,
All people are the same. There are good people and bad people everywhere. Humanity is one race, consisting of thousands of ethnicities. However, education plays a big role in how we behave.
Muslims are raised to believe that men are superior to women and are their maintainers. This BS idea is ingrained in them at a subconscious level. Any woman should avoid a man who thinks like that. Male chauvinism is a disease. It hurts not just the woman but the children and ultimately the man himself. Everybody becomes victim.
The first step is to get rid of Islam and detox its victims of their insanity. Marriage is a partnership between two people with different functions and responsibilities but equal rights. No one is maintainer of the other and no one is given preference to the other. Once a person leaves Islam he is not changed overnight, but the process of detoxification begins. It will take some time until he or she is fully recovered.
I hope this friend of yours will read my book. I can guarantee this much that if he reads it he will no longer remain a Muslim. Then he is on his way to becoming a complete human.
Be careful of taqiyah. Muslims lie to get what they want. Deception comes so natural to them. So if this person say he left Islam but he wants you to marry him according to Islamic marriage so his family are happy, walk away. You are not marrying his family and whether they are happy or not is none of your business.
Wish you luck
Hey everyone,
I’m the one who wrote my problem 🙂
I love jesus , so much .. What was I thinking?
I’m convinced with everything each one of you said
I’m just too weak to walk away but I will
I won’t marry him , I want a normal life blessed by God !
But before I take the decision of leaving him , I’ll try guiding him to jesus
I’ll pray that’s the only thing I can do now
And I’ll ask him to read Dr.sina’s book for sure
I’m thinking of showing him this page but I’m afraid he’ll get the idea that I’m disrepecting him
Btw he won’t harm me in by any means even if he saw his page dnt worry about that guys 🙂
I’m very thankful to all of you here , thanks so much
@ married to a muslim : leave him ! Take υя children and run away ! He is taking away υя life ! PRAY to jesus he’ll save you . Just plan it and take υя children and run away widout telling him.God bless your life
@Ria : I’m glad that reading quraan didn’t affect you and u chose the light <3 , too bad his heart was too filled with darkness :/ . God bless You
Btw guys I read about islam nd I know a lot about it that's way there's no chance I would believe in it
God bless You All 🙂
Mr. Sina
Do you remember when a Muslim man wrote to you once and said he is married to a Christian,
and his kids were raised as Muslims.
Then just in a sudden he changed his mind and decided to become a Christian.
Love changes, people change, everything changes,
in most cases, you cannot predict what will happen next.
I wanted to see what Islam was, and why was it different from Christianity. I studied Quran. I closed that chapter there and said I can't convert. I read the Bible and was so amazed, shared the gospel with him, so he can be saved. He made a choice not to. I knew at that point I can not marry a man who is a Muslim. I got out, it was the hardest thing at that time. I cried for an year. But the best thing I did for myself. Now I warm Christian girls who threw themselves at sweet talking Muslim men.
Initially I was fine but does not feel great when the other party had not obligatory boundaries. No one could look at me, but he could look at every one. I was not a person who ignore things, I put up resistance so he hit me for the first time. When he did I hit him back. Then he talked to his mother about me. His mother was upset marrying a Christian. Then he started disrespecting me saying things about my faith. He said you have to convert or else we will get married. I agreed, but very superficially because I did not have a clue what Islam was. He even said once we are married even if you draw a cross(which I don't anyway) he will divorce me. He picked the name of our future son "Osma" (it was before 911). At this point me being very rational, I can convert just for love sake, I need to know why.
Dear Dina.
Get out while you can! This is my only suggestion! And that was my mother's plea to me 10 years ago. I did not like it at that time.
I was in you situation 10 years ago. 19 yrs old, I got involved with a 30 year old Muslim man. He made me feel like a princess. He knew that hecould never even dream of a girl like me. But he sweet talked me. He said all the right things, he did all the right things. He cared about me. Slowly I fell in love seeing how much he loved me. Things changed when I fell in love. He asked me if I will marry him. I said yes. And thing changed further. He became possessive. According to him I can not talk to man, or wear even a long skirt, my ankle have to be covered, I had to button my shirt all the way up to the top(collar button seriously) I could not wear my hair down and I loved my beautiful hair down, but I could not. Coz according to him all men have lustful desire. No one could see me but him.
"Wisdom is a comb given to you by nature, but after losing you hair."
And how often I've used the saying, "Youth is wasted on the young"!
Young adults are expected to mate and procreate when they are at an age where they to not have the wisdom and experience to make the best choices! I think the secret is that bearing and rearing children creates the common bond that keeps them together through the trials and learning experiences.
We are not like animals & neither are they smarter than us.Animals sniff each others butts,perform incest (yes,a male dog will have sex with his own mother),they eat their own kind,they are slaves to their instincts.
And NO,animals do not even have the same experiences that humans do because their perception of life differs immensely from ours.
I understand what you say. Thats how the matured and experienced people talk and act.
Actually, life targets the youth with its trick (love), and it depends on their lack of experience
and wisdom.
It is known that as we age, we gain wisdom. There is a funny saying:
Wisdom is a comb given to you by nature, but after losing you hair.
Dina:’ve been thinking and i told him , when we get married if you have kids i want them to choose their own religion when they’re mature enough'
This is how most christians & I suspect non-muslims too raise their offspring.We teach them the best we know & then we set them free hoping that they're confident,mature & secure enough to live a fulfilled life.
Muslims on the other hand enslave their kids & threaten to kill them if they're dishonor the family by choosing a way of life that's different to Islam.
I did not make any statement against animals. But you cannot equate animal mating behavior with humans. Yes, some species are monogamous, but many will procreate with just whatever member of the opposite sex happens to be around when they are in heat. We have the saying that love is blind because we acknowledge the driving effect of hormones, but the saying exists to help us remember to wait until we recover our reason. Love at first sight is also a consequence of our projecting our hopes and expectations on someone, and then when we get to know them better, we find out that they are private individuals, not a mirror of our hopes. We also hope for someone who is perfect, but then when we get to know them, we find out that it is true that there is no perfect human being. Even long courtships cannot reveal everything, hence the adjustment periods following the honeymoon.
That is really the exception. Islam mandates that the children follow the faith of the father and be raised as Muslim. Your scenario can only be possible in Westernized countries with an apatheist father.
I forgot to mention this: I know some Christian women who are
married to Muslim men. Eventually, the children follow the faith
of the mother, because the mother is the first school.
Love does not submit to reason.
If it does, then most of the problems of this world will disappear,
Dina wouldn't have to write to you asking help !
Excuse me! What is wrong with animals?
Animals are like people, they have feeling, emotions, intelligence and even jealousy.
Some animals make more sense in their behaviour than some humans.
Some animals are more clean than many humans, some animals take much more
care of their children than many humans.
Believe it or not, some animals are more intellegent than humans. Example: the whale.
You are doing the animals too much of injustice.
I don’t agree that love hits. You decide whom to love. It’s a very conscious choice we make. You take a lot of things into account before falling in love. Yes you can become attracted to someone you see in the street for the first time, But if all your conditions are not met you will not love that person.
We are not animals. We can choose to guide our lives by principles rather than emotions. A decent courtship period will let the euphoria of infatuation fade enough to see a person as they are and let your brain take over from your hormones.
Mr. Sina,
You said: There are so many men you can love. Why marry a Muslim?
I think you are too educated for such a question. As if you do not know that love (romance) hits
randomly.
Yet your opinion about it is absolutely right. It does not last, it changes, it vanishes after awhile.
Half of the married people get divorced, and the other half are not happy.
Why? because love is a trick planned by nature to insure that this race will remain existing.
And since the result will be as you said, then it does not matter whom to marry.
Dear Dina this man does not love you. He lied to you to get sex, muslims do not see women as human they see you as a slave. As soon as the children are born he will start to treat you like shit, your children will grow up with the same attitude as him and have no respect for you whatsover (or any woman for that matter). Please do not do this to yourself or possible future children. My advise leave this man immediately. Do not tell him becuse if he finds out he may be react violently as this man seems to be emotionally damaged.
Hi Dina,
I think you are a reasonable and decent person since you told him that you want your children
to have the freedom of choice.
Yet, at least he is honest with you. Some men pretend to agree with the women they want,
until they get a grab on them, then they do with them what they please.
He was honest and straight with you, but you are better than him, since you did not
impose a condition that you want the children to follow your faith.
The best solution to such a problem is to meet half way (as you suggested).
Listen to one who is in the situation after the fact. It is not worth it. I have two children with my husband and life is horrible. Everything he promised me in the beginning he has since backed out of. He will not let me celebrate Christmas or birthdays with my children. My 5 yr old is forced to wear the hijab. I’m not allowed to play or listen to music in my home. All my Christian items cannot be displayed so we don’t offend his Muslim friends. Believe me when I say that the love will diminish once you see how you are treated. Dont compromise your faith by marrying him. Choose Christ. I wish I had listened to my friend’s counsel when she asked me I really thought God would make my true love be someone who is opposed to Him & doesn’t share the faith. I plan to start speaking on choosing a mate with different beliefs. The Bible warns against it & it’s for our protection. Do not choose a man over your God. God will bless you if you put Him first. Your instinct is telling you don’t do it. So please follow it. You will have less heartache by walking away from him than if you live with him your whole life. Btw, my husband is from Egypt.
When translation of half a dozen articles is enough for you to create a sub domain then I will try to translate your articles into Tamil as soon as possible.
"Furthermore I'll add, you mentioned that you are afraid of him?
Dear Dina, a real man makes his woman feel safe. A real man does NOT make his woman feel terrorized! "
Yes that is absolutely true. Even if this man leaves Islam and accepts your religion, he is not marriage material. This man has some emotional issures, as most men in the Islamic world have, that makes him a wrong person for marriage. Now that I pay attention to this, I retract what I said before. Don't ask him to read this page. He can be dangerour to you. Just leave him cautiously.
Dr.Sina said: "Furthermore, this Muslim already thinks he can control and manipulate you. He is not listening to what you say. He ignores your views when you say you don’t want to have children and you don’t want them to become Muslim. This is not love."
And betwixt above said: "He seems to take your concerns more like a challenge for him to conquer."
Dina, what more could be said? ^^ Listen to them, they're wise words.
Furthermore I'll add, you mentioned that you are afraid of him?
Dear Dina, a real man makes his woman feel safe. A real man does NOT make his woman feel terrorized!
Even if he is not a muslim, he is a failure already as a man.
You don't want to marry that kind of guy, believe me.
I repeat: A real man makes his woman feel safe. A real man does NOT make his woman feel terrorized!
You are afraid of him? No way you're gonna be happy like this. Do not marry him! Find another love, please!
Hi, Dina. Please follow your instincts and leave the relationship. I know this is a lot easier to say than to actually do it, but do not ignore your apprehensions. From your description of his attitude, it is obvious from an outsider, like me, to see that he does not really care about your concerns. He seems to take your concerns more like a challenge for him to conquer.
I’m typing from my mobile, so I can’t type everything I want to say. Let me just say for now that I had been in your position before. The only difference is I let my emotions–that is, my love for him– make all the decisions for me, and I ended up getting physically, emotionally, and psychologically abused. It is not too late for you to avoid all that trauma. It still haunts me 18 months later.
Remember also that we, Christians, cannot save or convert anyone. That is the work of the Holy Spirit. Pray for him and have him read Dr. Sina’s book, but I suggest you start pulling away from him emotionally and do your best to gain some objectivity in your decisions regarding your relationship with him.
I pray that you will have the courage and strength to follow the right and safe way for you. Please take care, sister.