In Love with a Muslim

Pregnant by a Muslim

 pregnant

Dear Ali,

I am writing you out of desperation and because I truly need help. I came across your website and felt compelled to reach out to you because I feel like you could provide me the facts I need to get through what I am currently going through. I will try to be as brief as possible, but in Nov 2012 I fell in love with a man from UAE  living here in the US. I am Christian. He is not overtly extremely religious but his family is. They pray 5 times a day, his parents arranged a marriage with a girl from the Middle East to marry his oldest brother, his other brother is married to a Muslim girl, and everyone else in his family observes the religion. I thought it was okay to pursue the relationship because he is not religious and because I have never felt so strongly for someone before. It was a whirlwind romance with him telling me he thought he loved me after only 2 weeks. I completely fell for everything. Turned out, he was in a long distance relationship with a Muslim girl who he ended up telling me he loved and was planning on marrying. We broke things off for several months but in January of 2014 I became pregnant with his child. I am now carrying his son.

He begged me for an abortion, threatened me, told me he was moving forward with his marriage plans with the other Muslim woman, and told me with certainty that he would never be a part of my life or the baby’s life, he would want nothing to do with us, and his family would never accept the baby as his child. Fast forward a few months of no contact between us, he came back, telling me he is ready to be a father, wants to be involved, and will fight me for custody of our son if I do not let him be. He said he did not want it to be like that but hoped we could be friends. I was willing to forgive, for the sake of our son,because I want him to have a father, and because I secretly hoped we could maybe be a family and raise our child together. Shortly after he came to me wanting to be a part of his son’s life, he informed me that he broke up with his fiance and he is already in a relationship with another woman. She is Muslim. He said they have only been seeing each other for 2 months, but he is certain he will marry her and I must meet her and befriend her because she will be in our son’s life.

I am devastated. I am still in love with this man. He wants nothing to do with me, and now I am forced to share custody of our son with not only him, but this other woman who he has only known for a short period of time. I haven’t been able to sleep or eat and instead of gaining weight in a normal pregnancy I am losing weight. I am sick. I am worried about the baby, and I have never been more depressed in my life.

If there is anything you can tell me to help me, to realize I shouldn’t be in love with this man, to realize he would never love me or want a family with me, or any advice what I should do moving forward in terms of our son, please, please help me. I just need some answers.

Thank you, so much, in advance…

Dear Clare

A man who tells you he loves you only after two weeks of knowing you has no idea about love.  He is a needy desperate man and confuses his needs with love.  You can become attracted to someone at first glance but that is not love.  Stay away from any man that proclaims his “undying love” to you too soon in the relationship.  Their early infatuation will die soon and the result is always disappointment.

Let us compare love with fire.  To start a fire, you need the spark first. The spark sets the wood on flame, which heats it and evaporates its moisture. Then the flame dies and what is left is a long lasting fire that is often hidden under the ashes.  This red fire burns slowly until it consumes the wood and nothing but ash is left.

Love is no different. First there is the attraction. That is the spark. Then there is romance. That is the flame. But just as the flame is short lived, the romance in any relationship is also short lived. However, it plays a very important role, which is to bring the couple close to each other and fire up a long lasting love between them.  The romance cannot live forever, and it is unreasonable to expect that it should last throughout the marriage. What should last is the profound love beneath surface that keeps the couple together until they live.

This man did not love you. He probably is incapable of loving anyone. But that is fine for girls of his culture as they too have no understanding of love.  Many animals have no understanding or need for conjugal love. They have sexual arousal and mate and procreate and that is fine with them. We humans emerge from animal kingdom. The evolution of humanity in all humans is not homogeneous.  We are only biologically the same. But spiritually we are in different stages of evolution.  Muslims have not even started their spiritual evolution.  For all intent and purposes they are spiritually speaking, a totally different species.  Union with such spiritually underdeveloped people will never bring happiness.

But now the waters are under the bridge and there is nothing we can do to change the past.  The important thing that you need to understand is that this man has never been and will never be the right person in your life.  If you continue loving him you only hurt yourself. You have to get over him.

Your dream about having a family with this man is a fantasy. For Muslims sex is something dirty. If a woman consents to have sex with a man she becomes a slut in their eyes. If you sleep with a Muslim man he will no longer see you as a marriage material but a whore. According to Muslims, it is the woman’s responsibility to keep chaste and not give in to the man’s advances.  The virginity of the woman is so entrench in the Muslim psyche that drives the parents of girls raped to kill their “defiled” daughter, even when the innocent girl is raped.  In Islamic countries a booming business for doctors is to restore the hymen of the girls prior to marriage who marry someone who thinks they are marrying a virgin.

Therefore, stop thinking about this man. He is not going to marry you and that is actually a good thing because even if you marry him he will want to control you and mold you. There are few happy endings in the stories of women marrying Muslim men.

Now, you’re going to have a child from him and he is coming to claim shared custody.  Don’t accept that.  There are two reasons for his interest to be a part of his son’s life. One is that with shared custody he will not have to pay the child support. The other is that he wants to raise his son as another brain dead Muslim.

If you agree with shared child custody you will be his slave for the next 18 years. He will brainwash your son and will set him against you by telling him you are a whore.  Muslims have disturbed minds. They are sick people.  They are damaged.  I tell you this because I come from this cesspool myself.  I rejected a wonderful woman who was in love with me because he had a boyfriend prior to meeting me. I overlooked all the good things she had and all I could think of was that she was not a virgin.

You have to fight and get the full custody of your child. At the same time you have to make sure that he won’t kidnap the child during his visitation time and take him to his country.  This happens all the time leaving the poor woman distraught. It’s not that they care about the child. What is important to them is that the child should be raised as a Muslim. That is the only thing that a Muslim can think of.  The disease of Islam must continue.

You committed a mistake and there are consequences. But life continues and there are other opportunities for you.  You will find a loving man who will accept you and your son. Detach yourself from this Muslim and look towards the future.  It is going to be a rough ride. Trust in God and let Him be your Guide.

Keep yourself happy, not just for yourself but for your child.  Your sate of mind will for sure affect your baby and will scar him for the rest of his life.  So don’t make things worse.  Forget this sick man and move on.  Be happy! This is a prescription not a suggestion.  The whole psychological makeup of your child depends on these few months of pregnancy and the first few years of his life.  You must not think of this man and focus on happy thoughts for your child.

And for any woman thinking of dating a non practicing liberal Muslim let me say this that they should not be deceived by the appearances. Muslims can be very liberal, drink, have sex, and do all sorts of things that are prohibited in Islam but underneath they are still Muslim with the same prejudices, superstitions and flaws that all Muslims share.   Just stay away from Muslims. There is no such thing as good Muslim. Even if they look normal on the outside, they are damaged from inside.  You don’t see the rotten part until you take a bite and often when it is too late.

 

 

141 comments

  1. Deny ever knowing this man and keep emphatically stating there's no way he can be the father. Put some other male name as the father on the child's birth certificate. This man is dangerous. It wouldn't surprise me if he killed your child at the first opportunity. Learn from this experience. NEVER get involved romantically with a Muslim.  

  2. @Sam sudhi That is why smart guys have caight him red handed saying he's not a Muslim but rather our ally using the same Muslim strategy of Taqiyah for our own good. Somewhere in this thread itself

  3. @Shabeer and slaveofprophet
    Hey both of you coward
    Either answer Satanic Verses' questions or admit that Allah is underworld Don who wishes to rule the Earth by raping women,killing children,butchering people by his third grade Satan named Muhammad.

  4. According to Dr. David Wood, the Ko'an contains not only scientific errors, but also historical, mathematical and moral errors. Its author tried his very best to be god and gave this BS.

  5. @Shabeer & @slaveofprophet
    Don't you believe that earth revolves the sun?
    Don't you believe that earth is spinning on it's axis ?

  6. @slaveofprophet
    If Quran is delivered by a divine being then why there are numerous scientific errors and contradictions in the Quran?

  7. @Shabeer
    Don't distract attention from the ignorance of Allah.I didn't mention the 7 layers of the atmosphere.
    Read my post again Quran 65:12 All knowing Allah says there are 7 planets in the universe.
    Author of the Quran singling out such a small number of celestial objects only reaffirms his ignorance of the make up of the universe.
    Do you believe that there are only 7 planets exist in the universe ?

  8. @Shabeer
    Brother, you hit on the head of non-believers. Pakistani, Afganistani, Iraki, Somalian are very noble Muslim but these non-believers spread mispropaganda about these countries noble Muslim.  In reality these country people are world very noble people. While non-believers are on top in doing crime because they are not following peaceful teaching of prophet Muhammad.

  9. PLZ [email protected] FROM :www.answering-christianity.com/mahir/seven_earths_rebuttal.htm

  10. KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE:
    Prohibit killing with unjust:
    3:21. Verily! Those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, announce to them a painful torment.
    5: 32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.
    6: 151. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty – We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawâhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand.
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 371 
    Yazid al-Faqir said: This view of the Khwarij (i. e. those who commit major sins and would be eternally doomed to Hell) 
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 159 ,160
    Ubaidullah b. Abu Bakr said: I heard Anas b. Malik saying: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) talked about the major sins, or he was asked about the major sins. Upon this he observed: Associating anyone with Allah, killing of a person, disobedience to parents. He (the Holy Prophet further) said: Should I not inform you about the gravest of the major sins, and (in this connection) observed: False utterance or false testimony. Shu'ba said. It was most probably" false testimony".
    17: 33. And do not kill anyone which Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause. And whoever is killed (intentionally with hostility and oppression and not by mistake), We have given his heir the authority [(to demand Qisâs, Law of Equality in punishment or to forgive, or to take Diya (blood money)]. But let him not exceed limits in the matter of taking life (i.e he should not kill except the killer only). Verily, he is helped (by the Islamic law).
    25: 68. And those who invoke not any other ilâh (god) along with Allah, nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.
    49: 6. O you who believe! If a rebellious evil person comes to you with news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done.
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 89 :: Hadith 320 
    Not to join anything in worship along with Allah, (2) Not to steal, (3) Not to commit illegal sexual intercourse, (4) Not to kill your children, (5) Not to accuse an innocent person (to spread such an accusation among people), (6) Not to be disobedient (when ordered) to do good deeds. 
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 58 :: Hadith 233 
    Narrated 'Ubada bin As Samit: 
    I was one of the Naqibs who gave the ('Aqaba) Pledge of Allegiance to Allah's Apostle . We gave the pledge of allegiance to him that we would not worship anything other than Allah, would not steal, would not commit illegal sexual intercourse, would not kill a person whose killing Allah has made illegal except rightfully, would not rob each other, and we would not be promised Paradise if we did the above sins, then if we committed one of the above sins, Allah will give His Judgment concerning it. 
    Muslim :: Book 7 : Hadith 3142 
    Abu Huraira, (Allah be pleased with him) reported. When Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, granted Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) victory over Mecca, he stood before people and praised and extolled Allah and then said:…………it (this territory) was not violable to anyone before me and it was made violable to me for an hour of a day, and it shall not be violable to anyone after me. So neither molest the game, nor weed out thorns from it. And it is not lawful for anyone to pick up a thing dropped but one who makes public announcement of it. And it a relative of anyone is killed he is entitled to opt for one of two things. Either he should be paid blood-money or he can take life as (a just retribution).

  11. LOOTING:
    2: 188. And eat up not one another's property unjustly (in any illegal way e.g. stealing, robbing, deceiving, etc.), nor give bribery to the rulers (judges before presenting your cases) that you may knowingly eat up a part of the property of others sinfully.
    3: 161. It is not for any Prophet to take illegally a part of booty (Ghulul), and whosoever deceives his companions as regards the booty, he shall bring forth on the Day of Resurrection that which he took (illegally). Then every person shall be paid in full what he has earned, – and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.
    4: 29. O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allâh is Most Merciful to you.
    30. And whoever commits that through aggression and injustice, We shall cast him into the Fire, and that is easy for Allâh.
    9:34. O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder (them) from the Way of Allâh (i.e. Allâh's Religion of Islâmic Monotheism). And those who hoard up gold and silver [Al-Kanz: the money, the Zakât of which has not been paid], and spend it not in the Way of Allâh, -announce unto them a painful torment.
    33: 19. Being miserly towards you (as regards help and aid in Allâh's Cause). Then when fear comes, you will see them looking to you, their eyes revolving like (those of) one over whom hovers death, but when the fear departs, they will smite you with sharp tongues, miserly towards (spending anything in any) good (and only covetous of booty and wealth). Such have not believed. Therefore Allâh makes their deeds fruitless, and that is ever easy for Allâh.
    60: 12. O Prophet! When believing women come to you to give you the Bai'â (pledge), that they will not associate anything in worship with Allâh, that they will not steal, that they will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood (i.e. by making illegal children belonging to their husbands), and that they will not disobey you in any Ma'rûf (Islâmic Monotheism and all that which Islâm ordains) then accept their Bai'â (pledge), and ask Allâh to forgive them, Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 108
    ………………..,so long as he plunders[looter, robbery] (is not) a believer, and these words were added: And no exploiter who makes an exploitation is a believer as long as he exploits [cheat,theft,illegal] It; therefore avoid and shun (these evils).

  12. ISLAMIC VIEWS OF ILLEGAL SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP:

    24: 19. Verily, those who like that (the crime of) illegal sexual intercourse should be propagated among those who believe, they will have a painful torment in this world and in the Hereafter. And Allâh knows and you know not.
    4:16 And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both. And if they repent (promise Allâh that they will never repeat, i.e. commit illegal sexual intercourse and other similar sins) and do righteous good deeds, leave them alone. Surely, Allâh is Ever the One Who accepts repentance, (and He is) Most Merciful. 
    5:5. ………….not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl-friends. And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of Allâh and in all the other Articles of Faith [i.e. His (Allâh's), Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and Al¬Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.
    17: 32. And come not near to the unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is a Fâhishah [i.e. anything that transgresses its limits (a great sin)], and an evil way (that leads one to Hell unless Allâh forgives him).
    70: 29. And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts from illegal sexual acts) .

  13. yeah that's right he married a rich cougar . once she died he married a child and became pedophile

  14. ["Same as 
    prophet (PBUH) marriage with slave girls, younger girls and old women were for humanity purpose."]

    No it is NOT the same! The very reason why those women were in trouble in the first place is because of Muhammad's evil deeds. And he did not do "humanity" to any of them. Giving the woman only that option which fulfills the prophet's lust, is not the same as doing humanity.
    He WAS the Narkasur (monster from hell)!

  15. Quran 2:18 Non-muslims are deaf,dumb,blind,they will not return (to the path)
    Quran calls non-believers'deaf,dumb,blind'.However,all the technology,medicines,scientific advancements in the muslim world are almost exclusively purchased from the non-muslim countries.Computer,television,space travel,helicopter,media players,nuclear bombs,cameras, satellites,vaccination,telephone,radios,electric bulbs,microphones,plastic,X-rays,heart-transplants,the internet etc. were all invented by non-muslims.

  16. Quran 81:1 When the sun (with it's spacious light) is folded up
    Quran claims Sun is flat and can be folded up. LOL

    Quran 88:20 And the earth,how it is spread out.
    Quran clims earth is "spread out" and laid flat like carpet spread on the ground. LOL

  17. Muslims believe that Quran contains messages from an all-knowing,all-powerful, infallible being.If this is true then it should not contain any errors,mistakes or information that contradicts known facts about the universe.If even one error exists in texts of Islam's holy book then the claims of divine authorship and infallibility are not true.An objective evolution of Quran shows that it contains numerous scientific and historical errors and it reflects a pre-scientific 7 th century view of te natural world.

    Some apologists will contest these numerous scientific errors in Quran by appealing to metaphor ,alternative meanings or phenomenological interpretation of the text .Even if we suppose that alternative explanations were possible in every case ,the wording and the content of Quranic verses often mimic the popular mythology ,and unscientific misconceptions of the time in which they were recorded.The author of Quran makes no clear or unambiguous statements that differentiate his understanding of the natural world from the common folklore of the people living in 7 th century.If the Quran was delivered by an all-knowing,all-powerful being then he would have been able to foresee how such ambiguous and misleading statements would be understood by future generations and the doubts and confusions they would cause.This alone should be reason to reject any claims to it's divine authorship.

  18. @Indian & All
    Have you listen story of your God Krishna who had 16000 wives? Do you call him rapist? No Why? because he freed  these women slavery of 'Narkasur'' (a monster) who raped of these girl. After got freeing by Krishna, these girl said to Krishna that society would not accept them because they were being raped then Krishna told them I gave you all status of my wives. Now, no one would look down upon you.
    Same as
    prophet (PBUH) marriage with slave girls, younger girls and old women were for humanity purpose.

  19. Dr. Sina
    Do you know Arab Spring ? Muslims in Egypt, Siria,Libia, Yemen etc ( middle eastern and north african countries) are experiencing hellfire because Allah is punishing them for believing in RAPIST,PEDOPHILE,LOOTER.MASS MURDERER,PIMP,GANGSTER Muhammad.

  20. @cchuckc
    Muhammad was rapist. He enslaved millions of women including Shabeer and slaveofprophet's female ancestors and raped them brutally.
    Muhammad was pedophile. He lured for 6 yr old Ayesha and kept raping her
    Millions of old women like Khadija were victims of Muhammad's amorous advances.
    Muhammad was mass murderer. He slaughtered millions of men including Shabeer and slaveofprophet's male ancestors.
    Muhammad was looter. He looted wealth of millions of families including Shabeer and slaveofprophrt's ancestors.
    Muhammad was pimp.He used to control prostitutes(enslaved women) and provide them to his gang to satisfy their dire thirst of sexual desire.

    He was HIV + ve. Shabeer and slaveofprophet are also suffering from the same disease because they inherited genes of that lecher and they imitate him from bottom of their heart.
    We pity both of them and the muslim world.

  21. @Chuck
    Krishna was non-believer in Allah & Prophet. Allah will punish him severally for not believing in him. All Hindu God will be punished by Allah for not believing in him. In 7th Century prophet (PBUH) destroyed all images of Hindu God from the Kaaba and said only Allah should be worshiped.

  22. @Shabeer
    Krishna perhaps ran away with clothes but Muhammad ran away with lives. Killing, butchering people, enslaving women and children.

  23. I think two thing with Krishna matched with chuck

    1) he may be 6000 wife……
    2) funny thing was ,when any girl or girls bathing ,he ran from their cloths,he only given to them,when they come one by one with 100% naked infant of him………

  24. Shabeer ,the BALATKARI Muhammad worshiper
    Your God Muhammad brutally raped your female ancestors, he murdered your male ancestors, he looted their wealth and assets. And you are worshiping him. SHAME on you.

  25. Bestiality is likewise advocated. A particularly solemn rite for the early Vedic religion was the horse sacrifice. Though it probably was performed rarely, it is mentioned frequently in the Vedic commentaries. Note one section from the Śatapatha Brāhmana: “Then they draw out the penis of the horse and place it in the vagina of the chief queen, while she says, ‘May the vigorous virile male, the layer of seed, lay the seed’; this she says for sexual intercourse…” (13.5.2.1-10). Examples such as this could be multiplied. To the list of atrocities in the Vedic scripture may be added human sacrifice (Aitaraya Brahmana 7.13-18), as if pornography, bestiality, rape, racism, inequalities were not enough.

    HINDUS NEVER LEAVE AT LEAST ANIMAL FOR RAPE:
     To insult and humiliate women further, the religious books speak of women having sexual intercourse with animals or expressing desire for intercourse with them. What further insult can be heaped on women.
    In 'Yajur Veda' such references are found at a number of places where the principal wife of the host is depicted as having intercourse with a horse.

    For example consider the following hymn:
    "All wife of the host reciting three mantras go round the horse. While praying, they say: 'O horse, you are, protector of the community on the basis of good qualities, you are, protector or treasure of happiness. O horse, you become my husband.'" – Yajur Veda 23/19.

    After the animal is purified by the priest, the principal wife sleeps near the horse and says: "O Horse, I extract the semen worth conception and you release the semen worth conception'" – Yajur Veda 23/20.

    The horse and principal wife spread two legs each. Then the Ardhvaryu (priest) orders to cover the oblation place, raise canopy etc. After this, the principal wife of the host pulls penis of the horse and puts it in her vagina and says: "This horse may release semen in me." -Yajur Veda 23/20.

    Then the host, while praying to the horse says:
    "O horse, please throw semen on the upper part of the anus of my wife. Expand your penis and insert it in the vagina because after insertion, this penis makes women happy and lively" – 23/21.

  26. MORE RAPE:
    In the Brhadārankyaka Upanishad scripture(advocating rape):Surely, a woman who has changed her clothes at the end of her menstrual period is the most auspicious of women. When she has changed her clothes at the end of her menstrual period, therefore, one should approach that splendid woman and invite her to have sex. Should she refuse to consent, he should bribe her. If she still refuses, he should beat her with a stick or with his fists and overpower her, saying: “I take away the splendor from you with my virility and splendor (6.4.9,21).
    Quote:
    In Dharmasastra, which is a Hindu moral and legal text(all women are whores):Good looks do not matter to them, nor do they care about youth; 'A man!' they say, and enjoy sex with him, whether he is good-looking or ugly. By running after men like whores, by their fickle minds, and by their naturallack of affection these women are unfaithful to their husbands even when they are zealously guarded here. Knowing that their very own nature is like this, as it was born at the creation by the Lord of Creatures (Prajapati), a man should make the utmost effort to guard them. The bed and the seat, jewellery, lust, anger, crookedness, a malicious nature, and bad conduct are what Manu assigned to women. There is no ritual with Vedic verses for women; this is a firmly established point of law. For women, who have no virile strength, and no Vedic verses, are falsehood; this is well established. Manusmrti 9:14-18.
    Quote:
    In Dharmasastra(women need to be kept under control)Men must make their women dependent day and night, and keep under their own control those who are attached to sensory objects. Her father guards her in childhood, her husband guards her in youth, and her sons guard her in old age. A woman is not fit for independence. — Manusmrti 9:2-4.
    Quote:
    In the Vedas:"Lord Indra himself has said, 'The mind of woman cannot be disciplined; she has very little intelligence.' — Rig Veda 8:33:17.
    Quote:
    In the Purunas(Hindu Gods Rape Gautama's wife)Formerly the gods lusted for Gautama's wife and raped her, for their wits were destroyed by lust. Then they were terrified and went to the sage Durvasas [an incarnation of Siva], who said, 'I will remove all your defilements with the Satarudriya Mantra [an ancient Saiva prayer].' Then he gave them ashes which they smeared upon their bodies, and their sins were shaken off. — Padma Purana 4:101:174-9.
    Quote:
    In the Smriti(Lord Rama's mom has sex with a horse 'all night long' to cleanse sins):The prescribed victims — snakes, birds, the horse, and aquatic animals — were bound at the place of immolation; each was dedicated to a specific divinity as is set forth in the ritual texts. The priests then bound them all to the posts in the manner set forth in the ritual texts. Three hundred beasts in addition to Dasaratha's jewel of a horse were bound there to the sacrificial posts. Kausalya (Rama's mom) walked reverently all around the horse and then with the greatest joy cut it with three knives. Her mind unwavering in her desire for righteousness, Kausalya (Rama's mom) passed one night with the horse. The priests — the hotr, the adhvaryu, and the udgatr — saw to it that the second and the juniormost of the king's wives, as well as his chief queen, were united with the horse. Then the officiating priest, who was extremely adept and held his senses in check, removed the fat of the horse and cooked it in the manner prescribed in the ritual texts. At the proper time and in accordance with the ritual prescriptions, the lord of men then sniffed the fragrance of the smoking fat, thereby freeing himself from sin. Then, acting in unison, the sixteen brahman officiating priests threw the limbs of the horse into the fire, in accordance with the ritualinjunctions. In other sacrifices, the oblation is offered upon branches of the plaksa tree, but in the Horse Sacrifice alone the apportionment of the victim is made on a bed of reeds. The Horse Sacrifice is known as the Three-Day Rite; for both the kalpasutra and the brahmanas refer to the Horse Sacrifice as a rite lasting for three days. — Ramayana 1:13:24-33.
    Quote:
    In the Smriti(method of turning women back to virgins):"A woman who has been unchaste should worship Siva in his calm aspect, Siva who is Kama. Then she should summon a Brahmin and give herself to him, thinking, 'This is Kama who has come for the sake of sexual pleasure.' Andwhatever the Brahmin wishes, the sensuous woman should do. For thirteen months she should honour in this way any Brahmin who comes to the house for the sake of sexual pleasures, and there is no immorality in this for noble ladies or prostitutes." — Matsya Purana 70:40-60; cf. Mahabharata III:2:23.

  27. @Shabeer
    //So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term//
    This is the operating line in 9:4. It is in continuation that 9:5 is uttered. Clearly then reading the 2 verses together it is clear that Muhammad is saying that even those who haven't attacked you and have respected the terms of their treaty don't have an amnesty beyond the expiry of their treaty . So 9:4 actually tells you that even those who didn't attack Mohammad were not safe after the end of the treaty.

    //1)idolator performed Hajj /Tawaf around the House while naked(9:3 commentary :ibn katheer) //
    Why not? It was their tradition for hundreds of years. Who was Muhammad to direct how people, who didn't belong to his religion, would follow their religious rituals? Mohammad was clearly interfering in their matters.

    //2)9:13. Will you not fight a people who have>>>>> violated their oaths (pagans of Makah) <<<<and intended to >>>expel the Messenger<<<, while >>>>>>>they did attack you first<<<<?//
    Muhammad was simply lying. Kathir says in the context of 9:13, (while they did attack you first), refers to the battle of Badr when the idolators marched to protect their caravan. When they knew that their caravan escaped safely, they still went ahead with their intent to fight Muslims
    So this attacking first was in reference to the fact before the battle of Badr Muhammad had attacked a Meccan caravan, the Meccan retaliated and saved their caravan. Now after securing their caravan instead of going off, the Meccan decided to attack the Muslims and get rid of this nuisance. Now Muhammad makes an issue of it and claims that it is they who attacked first forgetting that the attack was ONLY AFTER their caravan was threatened by Muhammad and his thugs.

  28. cchuckc
    You are omniscient. You are the STAR here. Your all views are commendable. I don't think that the meaning of your name 'cchuckc' is alias. In fact I can compare your nature( i.e. open mindedness,rationality , intelligence, optimistic, kindness, down to earth) with that of Lord Krishna.
    I always gain knowledge from your views. Thank you.

  29. @shabeer
    //If suppose they says challenge is “break the Mount Everest “or “bring the 5 million verses about the subject “ or “ fly like a bird” …………..IS IT LOGIC & MORAL CHALLENGE??? //

    So you think asking for only 10 good verses on a certain topic from Quran is like breaking the Mount Everest!! You proved my point, I have nothing more to add 🙂

    //Go to the page read again 20 evidence is there// I said 10 verses from Quran, did you have difficulty reading that?

  30. braindead zombie Shabeer(to whom BALATKARI Muhammad has bitten)

    Those verses are from your Aka Zakir Naik's book. I pity the horrible death of Muhammad( infected by AIDS).

  31. #Manu Smrithi is not our moral jurisprudence ,neither it is the verbatim of any Hindu gods ………..
    The Manusmriti (or "Laws of Manu", Sanskrit Manusmṛti मनुस्मृति; also known as Mānava-Dharmaśāstra मानवधर्मशास्त्र), is the most important and earliest metrical work of the Dharmaśāstra textual tradition of Hinduism.[1]

    The text presents itself as a discourse given by Manu, the progenitor of mankind to a group of seers, or rishis, who beseech him to tell them the "law of all the social classes" (1.2). Manu became the standard point of reference for all future Dharmaśāstras that followed it. According to Hindu tradition, the Manusmriti records the words of Brahma.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusm%E1%B9%9Bti

    VEDA SUPPORTS THE PURANA AND EITHIHASA:
    “  Hrichsamani chndamsi puranam yejushvah “(adarv veda 15:6:4)
    “Purana and eithihasa created by the result within Veda”

    Most of the Hindu scholars support the bagavath geetha:

    1)Acharia vinobabe says “githa make power full booster through my brain and heart “(Acharia vinobabe:geetha pravachanam ,page 1)
    2)Geetha promote complete dharma and moral things (Dr. S. Radha Krishnan: Indian Philosophy Vol II, Page 479.)
    3)Geetha contain all the source of power (Swami Vivekananda: Thoughts on Gita, Page 73.)
    4)Sankara chariya believe that we can get the complete salvation from geetha.
    5)We can get salvation from geetha by the way of bakthi(ramanujan(vishitadhoytha,),madwan(dhoytham))
    6)Like Ghandhiji,Raveendra tagor,tilakaravind support and promote the geetha different way.
    7)during the freedom fight,freedom fighters like baghim Chandra,barin gosh,aravind gosh and ulaskar dath used the geetha against the british

    Why araya samaj and dhayananda saraswathy unbelive the bagavath geetha,even his guru madwan(dhoytham) and friend Sankara chariya belive and promote it’s the way of salvation.
    Most of the Hindu pundit believe Upanishad as the ‘jnana kandam’ of Veda .it consider as the final verses after Veda, Brahman and aranya.the surname of the Upanishad ‘VEDANTHAM’(end of the Veda) ,the word Upanishad meaning that “hidiable sampurna jnanam” and scholar believe Upanishad as a brhmasaram,veda vidya,veda saram,veda laksham and athma vidhya .all the Upanishad depend the Veda

  32. Freeing slave
    5 :89 Allâh will not punish you for what is uninentional in your oaths, but He will punish you for your deliberate oaths; for its expiation (a deliberate oath) feed ten Masâkin (poor persons), on a scale of the average of that with which you feed your own families; or clothe them; or manumit a slave. 
    9:60. As-Sadaqât (here it means Zakât) are only for the Fuqarâ' (poor), and Al-Masâkin (the poor) and those employed to collect (the funds); and for to attract the hearts of those who have been inclined (towards Islâm); and to free the captives; and for those in debt; and for Allâh's Cause (i.e. for Mujâhidûn – those fighting in the holy wars), and for the wayfarer (a traveller who is cut off from everything); a duty imposed by Allâh. And Allâh is All-Knower, All-Wise.
    90: 10. And shown him the two ways (good and evil)?
    11. But he has made no effort to pass on the path that is steep.
    12. And what will make you know the path that is steep?
    13. (It is) Freeing a neck (slave, etc.)
    14. Or giving food in a day of hunger (famine),
    2: 177. It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and each and every act of obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkin (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and gives the Zakât, and who fulfill their covenant when they make it, and who are As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc.) in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of fighting (during the battles). Such are the people of the truth and they are Al¬Muttaqûn 
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 693,94,95,96,97,98,99, 701, 703 ,704,708,709,715,719, 729, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 79 :: Hadith 700,701,702,706
    Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 70 :: Hadith 552
    Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 63 :: Hadith 207
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 676
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 51 :: Hadith 26
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 21 
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 652 
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 57 :: Hadith 98,97,
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 56 :: Hadith 708 
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 282 ,283
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 47 :: Hadith 752,772
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 44 :: Hadith 671, 672
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 44 :: Hadith 681, 682
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 423 ,366,378

  33. HOW CAN WIKIPEDIA EVIDENCE FOR THE ISLAM,SOME ARAB CRIMINALS ACT NOT CONSIDERED AS ISLAMIC :
    ISLAM THE FIRST IDEOLOGY TRY TO STOP SLAVERY FROM EARTH:
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 255  ,Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 55 :: Hadith 655, Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 720, Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 723 , Muslim :: Book 8 : Hadith 3327 , 3327, Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 285 
    Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: 
    Allah's Apostle said, "If a person teaches his slave girl good manners properly, educates her properly, and then manumits and marries her, he will get a double reward. And if a man believes in Jesus and then believes in me, he will get a double reward. And if a slave fears his Lord (i.e. Allah) and obeys his masters, he too will get a double reward." 
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 721 
    Narrated Al-Ma'rur bin Suwaid:
    'Your slaves are your brethren upon whom Allah has given you authority. So, if one has one's brethren under one's control, one should feed them with the like of what one eats and clothe them with the like of what one wears. You should not overburden them with what they cannot bear, and if you do so, help them (in their hard job)."
    Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 2 :: Hadith 29
    Malik :: Book 54 : Hadith 54.16.40 ,54.16.41
    Muslim :: Book 15 : Hadith 4092, 4093, 4094, 4095
    Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' "
    Released war captive by the order of their family:
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 46 :: Hadith 716 
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 47 :: Hadith 778 
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 53 :: Hadith 360 
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 608 
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 89 :: Hadith 288 
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 38 :: Hadith 503 
    Muslim :: Book 5 : Hadith 2308 
    Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2681

  34. 7)Pagan cruelty against sahaba:
    85: 7. And they witnessed what they were doing against the believers (i.e. burning them). 
    8. They had nothing against them, except that they believed in Allâh, the All-Mighty, Worthy of all Praise!
    10. Verily, those who put into trial the believing men and believing women (by torturing them and burning them), and then do not turn in repentance, (to Allâh), will have the torment of Hell, and they will have the punishment of the burning Fire.
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 36 :: Hadith 475 
    Muslim :: Book 26 : Hadith 5430 [prophet forgiven to her/not punishment ordered]
    Bukhari  4.52.57
    . 9: 6. And if anyone of the Mushrikûn (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur'ân), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.
    7. How can there be a covenant with Allah and with His Messenger for the Mushrikûn (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) except those with whom you made a covenant near Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makah)? So long, as they are true to you, stand you true to them. Verily, Allah loves Al-Muttaqûn
    Prophet praying for pagans:
    Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 442 
    Pagan declares war with Muslim:
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 77 :: Hadith 617
    Prophet peace attitude towards them [pagan]
    Muslim :: Book 31 : Hadith  6111,6112, 6113,6115, 6116,6117, 6118,6132

  35. #2:190 is abrogated by 9:5, Have you read Kathir or do you think he is lying?………….
    plz read my last post once again, I never says the verses (2:190) Not abrogated, as u’r claim it abograted to 9:5 ,so what is the situation war declare ,I proved with evidence ,just before the 9:5 ,9:4 is there ,what it sasy to us?
    9:4. Except those of the Mushrikûn with whom you have a treaty[WITH PEACE AGREEMENT], and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allâh loves Al- Mattaqûn .
    #if anybody was causing mischief and fitna it were the Muslims!!! ………….
    NO……evidence…………evidence nedded for the proof?
    I will teach u that who spread fithna with evidence
    1)idolator performed Hajj /Tawaf around the House while naked(9:3 commentary :ibn katheer)
    2)9:13. Will you not fight a people who have>>>>> violated their oaths (pagans of Makah) <<<<and intended to >>>expel the Messenger<<<, while >>>>>>>they did attack you first<<<<? Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

    3)9: 12. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism then fight (you) the leaders of disbelief (chiefs of Quraish – pagans of Makah) – for surely their oaths are nothing to them – so that they may stop (evil actions).

    4)Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 37 
    @ hubaidiya prophet says to pagan[who come to fight with prophet] We have not come to fight anyone………………. but to perform the 'Umra’
    5)Pagan tries to kill prophet:
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 58 :: Hadith 195
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 57 :: Hadith 27
    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 339
    6)Pagan cruelty against prophet:
    96: 9. Have you (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) seen him (i.e. Abû Jahl) who prevents,
    10. A slave (Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) when he prays?
    15. Nay! If he (Abû Jahl) ceases not, We will catch him by the forelock,
    16. A lying, sinful forelock!
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 53 :: Hadith 409 
    Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 477 
    Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 4 :: Hadith 241 
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 56 :: Hadith 733 

  36. Pregnant
    @chuck#when you are trying to prove something to an infidel you have to meet THEIR challenge………….
    If suppose they says challenge is “break the Mount Everest “or “bring the 5 million verses about the subject “ or “ fly like a bird” …………..IS IT LOGIC & MORAL CHALLENGE??? 
    @Not 20. You are a liar………..
    Go to the page read again 20 evidence is there &nbsp ;http://alisina.org/blog/2014/02/24/does-black-magic-work/

  37. @KLMNOP
    Thanks.
    // and when the time comes to defend it, they do the mudslinging act//
    And fools like @Shabeer don't even know whether what they are throwing is mud or not 🙂

  38. cchuckc, It's really wonderful the way you respond to these guys. Hats off.
    They blindly accept their religion, and when the time comes to defend it, they do the mudslinging act.

  39. @Shabeer
    You are a shameless joker!! You have given the title of this comment 'Hinduism and rape' none of the instances you have quoted mentions rape. Now let me go through each one by one.
    1. //Infidelity to husband was considered a grave sin and it was believed that such women went to Aksaya hell//
    This is not rape. Infidelity in marriage is obviously something that any partner will have objection to and so this is logical, as indeed is cursing the woman or the behaviour by Gautam Muni. In Islam the woman are stoned to death!!! Thats the difference.

    2. //if a woman was found guilty of a carnal crime her generative organs were cut off and she was ultimately sentenced to death [ Arth.IV.13 in Jain p.164 ]//
    Which book is this 'Jain', mention the book. This is nothing more than cut paste rhetoric. Lets look at AtharvaVed IV 3 directly, It is a charm to restore a sick man to health. Here is a link for the same from Griffith's authorative translation: http://sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av04013.htm
    Next time you copy paste, care to see what you are copying. More on this below.

    3. //'Yajur Veda' in the context of 'Ashva Medha' (Horse Sacraficing ceremony), says that many wives of Harish Chandra participated in the 'Yagyna' (religious sacrafice)//
    Which proves? How is this related with rape? And care to mention the verse where this is mentioned?

    4. //In 'Shatpath Puran(Shatpath Brahmin)', preachings (13/4/1/9), of the Veda//
    Shatpath Brahman is neither a Veda nor a Puran. So even in half a sentence you made 2 errors (or rather the author whose propaganda material you copied).
    Next you should say which Sakha you are referring to, Kanva Sakha or Madhyandina Sakha (did you even know that there are 2 sakhas? I know you don't.). Assuming Madhandina Sakha, 13:4:1 does describe an Ashva Medha Yagna, how does it relates with 'rape'?

    5. //In another Puran (Tatiraity Brahamin, 3/8/4), it is written that wives are like property. //
    The Taittiriya Brahmana isn't a Puran. Do you even understand the difference between Puran, Brahmana text and Aranyakas? Now TB 3/8/4 has 3 verses tell me exactly which verse you are referring to.

    6. //It is confirmed from the following hymn in 'Atharva Veda': "O men, sow a seed in this fertile women" – Atharva Veda 14/1 //
    How does this verse prove 'rape'? Second there is no such verse. AV 14/1 is about the bridal of Surya and marriage ceremonies and rituals in general and who doesn't know that marriage is an institution for producing offsprings and conjugal companionship. Here is the link: http://sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av14001.htm there is no mention of multiple brides in this passage. Go ahead and read it thoroughly.

    7. //1000 child sex slaves
    Mahabharata 1:CCXXII//
    A. You don't even know the chapter number!! This is in chapter CCXXIIIfrom Kishari Mohan Ganguly's authorative translation
    B. Only a muslim can think of sex here, where is it mentioned in this text?
    C. each wearing a hundred pieces of gold around her neck Even servants are said to be adorned with hundred pieces of gold. That tells you how servants were treated in those ancient times in the Vedic society. And if this was the state of affairs for servants one can only think in awe how women were respected in general life.

    8. //Baudhayana:Prasna 4:Adhyaya1//
    //Sacred Laws of Arya:Gautama 18:21//
    None of these are religious texts and had almost no authority in social and religious life. Second none of this talks about 'rape' or even marital sex!!! Third the original Vedic practice was the Ashram Vaivastha according to which it was mandated to start a conjugal life only after 25 years. So even if you were married off early you start actual family life only at 25!!! In fact, till even recently it was a common practice in Northern India, called Gauna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauna)

    Done and dusted. You are poor debater with almost no knowledge of the subject you talk about, Christanity and Hinduism. A liar, as proved many times over and a very poor apologist for Islam. I can understand that it is difficult to defend Islam so keep on throwing mud at other religions assuming that some will stuck and the attack on Islam will become feeble. Alas, it doesn't work that way since Islam is theologically weak inherently and no amount of obscurantism from your end can make it robust.

  40. Shabeer your cutting and shaving is of no use .
    In Hinduism the statements from Manu Smrithi is not our moral jurisprudence ,neither it is the verbatim of any Hindu gods ,None of these is practiced nowadays . Those statements from what ever scriptures are null and void . And we do not harbour any guilty conscience while we pray.
    But muslims are exercising, imitating and calling their pedo-muhammeds name in every day prayers .

  41. @Shabeer,
    //IF PROPHET INDENTED LIKE THAT SO WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF THE LOT OF HADITH ,WHICH PROHIBITED KILLING WOMEN/CHILDREN: //
    The importance was to make some of the captive women sex slaves, sell others or ask ransoms for others. And the proof is the thriving slave trade that prospered in Arabia after the advent of Islam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

    As far as Hima is concerned I have quoted the hadeeth. If you can't dispute you should simply shut up.

  42. @Shabeer
    //SO ABROGATION BALLOONS BOOOOOOOOOMS//
    Let me burst your balloons:-). I have already quoted from tafsir Ibn Kathir that 2:190 is abrogated by 9:5. Have you read Kathir or do you think he is lying?
    Now in 9:4 it clearly says that even those who haven't fought you and kept their side of the treaty they are to be allowed freedom to the end of the term. 9:5 is generic, it says even these are to be pursued and exterminated.

    //PEOPLE WHO BROKEN THE PEACE AGREEMENT WITH MUSLIM ,AND WAR DECLARE THE PEOPLE WHO SPREAD TERRORISM THROUGH THE ISLAMIC LAND ,MISCHIEF & FITHNA //
    This is utter rubbish. Arab was the pagans' homeland, if anybody was causing mischief and fitna it were the Muslims!!!

    //PLZ DON'T FIGHT/STOP FIGHT WHEN THEY COME TO PEACE/NEED PROTECTION//
    9:5 is absolutely clear. Kathir mentions the following in this context This honorable Ayah (9:5) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, "It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.'' Al-`Awfi said that Ibn `Abbas commented: "No idolator had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara'ah was revealed. .
    Are you a greater scholar than Kathir in Quranic matters?

    About 9:6 Kathir says this: The Ayah says, `We legislated giving such people safe passage so that they may learn about the religion of Allah, so that Allah's call will spread among His servants.
    So here also the intent was not to giving safe passage for the sake of it but to impress Islam on these people. The idea was to spread Islam by ANY MEANS. The only other exemption Kathir mentions is the age old tradition of not harming the messenger which existed among the Arabs even before Islam came around, as indeed elsewhere in the world. Kathir says this: The Messenger of Allah used to thereafter grant safe passage to those who came to him for guidance or to deliver a message. . As an example Kathir elaborates : When it became known that Ibn An-Nawwahah still testified that Musaylimah was a messenger from Allah, Ibn Mas`ud summoned him and said to him, "You are not delivering a message now!'' He commanded that Ibn An-Nawwahah be decapitated, may Allah curse him and deprive him of His mercy. . Ibn An-Nawwahah's only fault was that he testified for another person as prophet, he wasn't fighting with Muhammad or muslims!!

  43. Prohibit killing with unjust:
    3:21. Verily! Those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, announce to them a painful torment.
    5: 32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.
    6: 151. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty – We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawâhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand.
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 371 
    Yazid al-Faqir said: This view of the Khwarij (i. e. those who commit major sins and would be eternally doomed to Hell) 
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 159 ,160
    Ubaidullah b. Abu Bakr said: I heard Anas b. Malik saying: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) talked about the major sins, or he was asked about the major sins. Upon this he observed: Associating anyone with Allah, killing of a person, disobedience to parents. He (the Holy Prophet further) said: Should I not inform you about the gravest of the major sins, and (in this connection) observed: False utterance or false testimony. Shu'ba said. It was most probably" false testimony".

    hindu says :
    BURN THE ENEMIES ALIVE
    Yajurveda Chapter 13; Mantra 12 says

    "O King, make progress in thy duty of administration, extend happiness to the religious. O terrible chastiser, burn down the irreligious foes. O splendid person, humiliate and consume utterly like dried up stubble, him, who encourages our foe."
    Yajurveda Chapter 15; Mantra 15 says

    "…Let injurious animals like Lions and others that eat fresh and grass be destroyed.  Let murderous crowds of men that destroy others like a powerful weapon, be killed.  Let virtuous rulers protect us from those animals, and make us comfortable.  In the jaws of these animals we place the ferocious man whom we hate and who hates us."
    WHO ARE THE ENEMIES?
    But there is still one thing unclear. Who are the enemies whose inhumane killing is being encouraged in the above mantras? Well, let the Vedas answer for themselves.

    Atharvaved 12:5:62 says,

    "Rend, rend to bits, rend through and through, scorch and consume and burn to dust, the one who rejects the Vedas."

  44. #shabeer and all like once all those people can never call their beloved muhamed's name without thinking of pedophilia ,rape and murder which their prophet had committed . 

    bec's
    Hinduism Permits Child Rape

    Manu 9:94. A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would (otherwise) be impeded, (he must marry) sooner. 
    Vishnu Purana III:10 If he marry,he must select a maiden who is of a third his age,one who has not too much hair,but is not without any,one who is not very black or yellow complexioned and who is not from birth a cripple or deformed…” 

    Mahabharata XLIV (p.18)A person of thirty years of age should wed a girl of ten years of age called a Nagnika. Or, a person of one and twenty years of age should wed a girl of seven years of age. 

    Baudhayana:Prasna 4:Adhyaya1 
    11. Let him give his daughter, while she still goes naked, to a man who has not broken the vow of chastity and who possesses good qualities, or even to one destitute of good qualities; let him not keep (the maiden) in (his house) after she has reached the age of puberty” 

    Sacred Laws of Arya:Gautama 18:21. A girl should be given in marriage before (she attains the age of) puberty 
    22.He who neglects it, commits sin 
    23.Some (declare, that a girl shall be given in marriage) before she wears clothes. 

    1000 child sex slaves 
    Mahabharata 1:CCXXII And he of eyes like lotus-petals also gave unto them a thousand damsels well-skilled in assisting at bathing and at drinking, young in years and virgins all before their first-season, well-attired and of excellent complexion, each wearing a hundred pieces of gold around her neck, of skins perfectly polished, decked with every ornament, and well-skilled in every kind of personal service. 
    islam Denny child sex:
    Dawud :: Book 29 : Hadith 3952 
    Narrated AbuHurayrah: 

    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The child of adultery is worst of the three. 
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 86 :: Hadith 101 
    Narrated 'Aisha: 
    Allah's Apostle said, "It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage). I said, "A virgin feels shy." The Prophet; said, "Her silence means her consent." Some people said, "If a man falls in love with an orphan slave girl or a virgin and she refuses (him) and then he makes a trick by bringing two false witnesses to testify that he has married her, and then she attains the age of puberty and agrees to marry him and the judge accepts the false witness and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, he may consummate his marriage."

    Dawud :: Book 11 : Hadith 2091 
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: 

    A virgin came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) allowed her to exercise her choice. 

  45. hinduism & rape 
    Infidelity to husband was considered a grave sin and it was believed that such women went to Aksaya hell [Br.P. 87.61 in Sheth 98]. The husband had the power to curse the wife who was disloyal to him. Thus the sage Gautama cursed his wife Ahalya for sleeping with Indra though through no fault of her own. [Sheth 99]
    [ In the Kautilyan period ] if a woman was found guilty of a carnal crime her generative organs were cut off and she was ultimately sentenced to death [ Arth.IV.13 in Jain p.164 ], although it is not clear whether this was only for intercourse with slaves.

    'Yajur Veda' in the context of 'Ashva Medha' (Horse Sacraficing ceremony), says that many wives of Harish Chandra participated in the 'Yagyna' (religious sacrafice).

    In 'Shatpath Puran(Shatpath Brahmin)', preachings (13/4/1/9), of the Veda, it is written that four wives do service in 'Ashva Megha'. In another Puran (Tatiraity Brahamin, 3/8/4), it is written that wives are like property.

    Not only one man had many wives (married and slave girls), but there were cases of many men having a joint wife. It is confirmed from the following hymn in 'Atharva Veda': "O men, sow a seed in this fertile women" – Atharva Veda 14/1
    1000 child sex slaves 
    Mahabharata 1:CCXXII And he of eyes like lotus-petals also gave unto them a thousand damsels well-skilled in assisting at bathing and at drinking, young in years and virgins all before their first-season, well-attired and of excellent complexion, each wearing a hundred pieces of gold around her neck, of skins perfectly polished, decked with every ornament, and well-skilled in every kind of personal service. 
    Baudhayana:Prasna 4:Adhyaya1 
    11. Let him give his daughter, while she still goes naked, to a man who has not broken the vow of chastity and who possesses good qualities, or even to one destitute of good qualities; let him not keep (the maiden) in (his house) after she has reached the age of puberty” 

    Sacred Laws of Arya:Gautama 18:21. A girl should be given in marriage before (she attains the age of) puberty 
    22.He who neglects it, commits sin 
    23.Some (declare, that a girl shall be given in marriage) before she wears clothes

  46. i ever says @you were saying that Quran and Sunnah is not abrogated!! @ is it plz prove ,I SYAS SOME NON MUSLIM MAKING ABROGATION ,WITHOUT THE PROPER EVIDENCE FROM THE ISLAMIC SCHOLARS,THAT IS I SAYS LIKE THAT…………  

    # 1. The women and children are from among the pagan (and hence liable to be killed), 2. The institution of HIma……….IF PROPHET INDENTED LIKE THAT SO WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE OF THE  LOT OF HADITH ,WHICH PROHIBITED KILLING WOMEN/CHILDREN:
    Women/children killing prohibited:
    Bukhari 4.52.256
    Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.10 
    Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.8 
    Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4456 
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 257,58
    Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2608 
    Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4294
    Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.9 
    Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 5128,28
    Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2663 ,2664
    Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 2 :: Hadith 17 
    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 4 
    Malik :: Book 55 : Hadith 55.1.2 
    Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.8, 21.3.9,21.3.11
    Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4319,4320, 4457, 4458, 4460
    Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2663 [Khalid not killed child/hired slave]

    THAT INDICATED THAT U R UTTER FOOLEER ,TO UNDERSTANDING THE COMMON LOGIC ,EVEN I PROVED SEVERAL TIMES WITH VALID EVIDENCE………..

  47. (then kill them wherever you find them) (9:5). FOR WHO?

    9:4. Except those of the Mushrikûn with whom you have a treaty[WITH PEACE AGREEMENT], and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allâh loves Al- Mattaqûn
    PEOPLE WHO BROKEN THE PEACE AGREEMENT WITH MUSLIM ,AND WAR DECLARE THE PEOPLE WHO SPREAD TERRORISM THROUGH THE ISLAMIC LAND  ,MISCHIEF & FITHNA 

    AGAIN ALLHA SAYS
    9:6. And if anyone of the Mushrikûn (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allâh (the Qur'ân), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.

    PLZ DON'T FIGHT/STOP FIGHT WHEN THEY COME TO PEACE/NEED PROTECTION:

    SO ABROGATION BALLOONS BOOOOOOOOOMS………………..  

  48. knowTheEnemy
    This ruling party(UPA) lacks in strong leadership. There is no co-ordination among their own ministers. Their future leader RG(pappu) is dumb.He has not worked in any field of governance.This inexperienced RG lacks in vision. He has no will and wish to transform current weak economic condition of India.He memorizes and then delivers speech among people.(I personally don't wish this Shah jada of Delhi's Sultanate to become PM of our country.)
    Italian Catholic lady operates the whole central govt. and congress ruled state govt. like Maharashtra using remote control.

    BJP is the only party which has parliamentary board. This party has it's own constitution.Everyone has the right to put their opinions.This party aims that India should progress in both ways i.e. economically and spiritually. Their philosophy is cultural nationalism(not religious or theocratic concepts)
    The India of tomorrow is looking at empowerment,employment,better education and improved standard of life,development,security,international recognition( India wish to become superpower likeUS China).
    Good governance of NaMo model has potential of transforming India thoroughly in the near future.
    "Namo" mantra has become very common slogan among young Indians like me.
    Now a days educated muslims have come to know the reality of BJP. This UPA(the most corrupt govt.) has failed to misguide them.

    I just want to say that voting participation of majority is higher.

  49. knowTheEnemy
    You are right to say that muslim's voting participation is good.But this doesn't mean that we majority Indians are not enthusiastic about voting.

    India is the largest democratic country having both national as well as regional parties. Slogan of so called secular parties like Indian National congress, NCP,TMC etc is Divide and Rule.They misguide people.Illiterate people of majority can't understand their real intentions.Poor people of backward classes sell their votes for an amount of Rs.1000.
    These conditions are favorable for these pro islamic ruling parties.

  50. slaveofprophet
    I am proud to call myself slave of prophet. Prophet had many slave men and women.//

    That's what confuses me.You know that Muhammad raided towns,murdered civilians and took their women,children and goods as booty.You also know that Muhammad traded slaves and yet that does not bother you.Most muslim visitors to this site try to cover up Muhammad's crimes but you embrace them with open arms.

    You aslo said:What is wrong to be slave of messenger of Allah?//
    You cannot understand the evil of slavery because you lack empathy due to your devotion to a slave master and looter.

  51. The Indian politicians beg Muslims for votes because they know that Muslims are politically active and if their (muslims) votes don't go to one pol, those (votes) will go to rival pols. If the Muslims were not politically active, the netas won't be doing any begging/pandering to Muslims.

    Coincidently just an hour ago, I wrote a response to another poster at a different site, on how democracy actually works in the real world. Click here to read the post and my response.

  52. Phoenix
    You are right. Indian muslims speak poor English because this current Indian Govt.(UPA) promotes madarsa education using many policies like huge financial packages for madarsa,scholarships for madarsa students for vote bank politics( i.e. they beg muslims for votes during elections.)
    Indian Mujahiddin and SIMI(Students of Islamic Movement of India) terrorists are scholar students of theses madarsa institutes.

  53. @slaveofprophet
    Lecher Muhammad had sex with 12 women in single night *365 nights in 1 year * 50 years of his life = 2,19,000 women in his entire life including your female ancestors( to convert them to Islam forcefully). And that's why he was HIV +ve. I suggested you to not follow Muhammad.
    Let me tell you once again if you imitate that lecher, you will be no more in a course of time. Leave that religion of sex(Muhammad lied and fooled Arabian people). I am your well wisher.

  54. If slave had at least a shred of intelligence ,he would have never debated here .
    But one thing is sure ,intelligent people had cast a lot of doubts into the mind of apologists of Islam .
    like the slave ,shabeer and all like once all those people can never call their beloved muhamed's name without thinking of pedophilia ,rape and murder which their prophet had committed .
    If you watch carefully zakir naik you can make out clearly in all those debates and fabrication of lies he says according to time he is fighting against his own conscience . Actually he is fed up of doing this .
    Just for the sake of his own existence he is doing this .
    these people have reached a point of no return ,only now the hell what they believe in can give asylum .

  55. @shabeer
    //it prohibited 2;190 fight against the people when they fight u//
    2:190 has been abrogated by 9:5. From Tafsir Ibn Kathir:
    Abu Al-`Aliyah said, "This was the first Ayah about fighting that was revealed in Al-Madinah. Ever since it was revealed, Allah's Messenger used to fight only those who fought him and avoid non-combatants. Later, Surat Bara'ah (chapter 9 in the Qur'an) was revealed.'' `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said similarly, then he said that this was later abrogated by the Ayah:(then kill them wherever you find them) (9:5).

    //but if some terrorist women come to fight ,an army can't control them self //
    The hadeeth talks about before the fight is yet to take place. It was nightly raid, most likely people were resting/sleeping (otherwise there is no benefit in nightly raids :-)). There is no question of women possibly fighting at the instance the question was raised. Secondly it also talks about children, off course you are not suggesting that even children were expected to fight and hence liable to be killed. Third Muhammad clearly says that Hima is only valid for him and his men.

  56. @Shabeer
    //1) first debate chuck says give 20 evidence for the proof,its invalid ,because one verses enough for what Islamic stand for the subject,quran not a story book for repeating a same things again and again//
    Then why did you bring in 20 verses from Quran on the same topic? I have repeated it several times now. In a holy book one would look for consistency in delivering message. Remember that Quran is holy only for muslims and not infidels. So when you are trying to prove something to an infidel you have to meet THEIR challenge. And what does a infidel find in Quran? One or 2 stray good verses and numerous verses that spews venom on them (as you yourself proved).

    //2) second debate he ask me 10 evidence ,i was give u 20 ,he just escaped from the debate //
    I very clearly said, 10 verses on 3 topics. You brought 7 verses IN TOTAL (some in doubtful context too)!! Not 20. You are a liar. You were supposed to bring in 30!!

    //Chuck if u have some mental problem //
    I am not a muslim :p

  57. Then answer me slave ,who is Allah another slave of muhammed .
    YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT ONE CANNOT BE A SLAVE OF TWO MASTERS .
    So beware your life is a waste , Allah had marked you to become the fuel of hell fire .!

  58. First of all, we think that there are so many BETTER books than the Quran. And many of us prefer the Democratic rules and scientific theories (A) over the Quran and Sunnah ( B) , when A and B are in contradiction. So many of us are not merely ANTI-Quran and ANTI-Sunnah. Rather &nbsp;we think Quran-Sunnah have been superseded by better theories and guidelines.

    But Shabeer, Slave and Islam-apologists have the Quran-Sunnah in the centre of their lives and want to promote Quran-Sunnah to both Muslims and Kaffirs.

    But then knowledgeable Kaffirs like Ali Sina, Bill Warner, Robert Spencer, David Wood and Chuck and Jonmc, they mercilessly show all those who care how faulty and weak the Quran and Sunnah are.

    Islam-apologists promote Quran by saying how benevolent it is. And counterjihadists in response show how few benevolent verses there are in the Quran, and Sunnah, and how almost non-existent benevolent verses for Kaffirs there are in them.

    And how prevalent the hateful and negative verses about the Kaffirs are in Quran and Sunna. These are repeated again and again or if not repeated, then elaborated upon, whereas the benevolent verses are far less elaborated..

    It is high time Islam-apologists realized that counterjihadists know this and that they no longer try to hide and deny this and lie about this.

  59. Muslim not fight against the non Muslim ,it prohibited 2;190 fight against the people when they fight u……… Number Islamic source (fathahul bari) ,we can understand that the women and men fighting together against Muslim army ,that is the resonance for women killed,20 + hadeeth @ quran verses say killing women prohibited (civilian),but if some terrorist women come to fight ,an army can't control them self ……..that is the resonance for killing women……

  60. Chuck / logic
    1) first debate chuck says give 20 evidence for the proof,its invalid ,because one verses enough for what Islamic stand for the subject,quran not a story book for repeating a same things again and again,……

    2) second debate he ask me 10 evidence ,i was give u 20 ,he just escaped from the debate …..

    Chuck if u have some mental problem this site is not a right place for ur treatment

  61. @slaveofprophet
    //Why do you expect repetitiveness of same thing in Holy Quran?//
    Because one stray good advice doesn't make a book or a person holy or wise. After all @Shabeer produced 20 verses (and there are more actually) on the same topic ie treatment of infidels. What matters is consistency. So based on @Shabeer's evidence, the sheer volume of it, proves that Quran is antipathetic towards infidels in general. Hence, using same logic, the contra positive is true that Quran lacks consistency as far as good virtues are concerned.

  62. //"Why do you expect repetitiveness of same thing in Holy Quran? Is not this single verse enough to instruct the people?"//

    Slave, I cannot answer for Chuck, but "Fine", ex-Muslima, told us that there are approx. 6300 verses in the Quran, 543 of them are very REPETITIVE, and ELABORATE, in their instructions to the people but with rather negative and hateful attitude to the Kaffirs, about what to think of them, how to treat them and that they are going to hell (and get tortured eternally there).

    And she said that there were only 83 "nice" verses in the Quran.

    Bill Warner tells us similar evaluation of the Quran. He says that there is "no unmitigated good for the kaffir" in the Quran. So "kaffirs" can be excused to be worried about the unbalance between "nice, humane" verses and "negative-hateful" ones in the Quran, can't they?

    Shabeer and you CAN easily produce verses about disparaging Kaffirs, hostile behavior towards them and their hell-destination, but you are clearly unable to show us the same number of benign verses in this "Noble, divine" book. Why?

  63. @slaveofprophet
    Your username is accurate. All Muslims are in fact slaves of Muhammad. Even this 'Allah' that they believe in, is actually Muhammad's Allah. No ordinary person has ever had any interaction (verbal or physical) with 'Allah' though there are many people who claimed to be extraordinary with special powers/privileges to communicate with 'Allah'. And out of all those claiming to be blessed with such privileges, Muslims have chosen to *submit* to Muhammad's claim. Hence they are all Muhammadans– slaves of Mo just like yourself!

  64. //"What do you think happened to the stray reform movements within the ambit of Islam? Ahamadiyas are, for example, prosecuted in Pakistan where it is not even recognized!!"//

    Chuck, you must be thinking I am naive, as I still want us Westerners at least to press for reform of Islam in which a more symbolic interpretation of Islam is promoted. Oh, I know, it seems like a charade and without the slightest chance to succeed.

    But this is what Clarion Project seems to want to try. It is relatively new, it was the (part) funder of the movie Honor Diaries. With 9 women in it, most of them Muslima's, like Qanta Ahmed, Farzana Hassan. But they made it very clear that there is a connection between Islam and the 3 big problems addressed in the movie; Female Genital Motivation, Forced marriages (of young girls) and Honour killings.

    And also that they were allied to Clarion Project, which generally exposes, like Daniel Pipes and Foundation for Democracy do, the crimes, terror, totalitarian designs of Muslims worldwide. And of course, they, like Tony Blair, the other day, always make the distinction between Islamists and ordinary Muslims, a distinction which Ali Sina, Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders abhor and reject (and admittedly on good grounds).

    I think they do this because otherwise they simply cannot get the approval of many in the mainstream media and public, whom they are unable to convince of the evilness of the whole of Islam. I know this to be the case in Holland through my personal experience. But in a sense it is a ploy, experiment.

    And CAIR (you know CAIR?!) has advised against the movie Honor Diaries, but on the pretext that it's producers (Clarion Project, Ayaan Hirsi Ali) are to be considered "Islamophobes and Islam-haters". They too have the peculiar tactic of dividing their opponents in "radical and moderate". Both sides do, and it makes the defense against (radical) Islam rather complicated.

    Perhaps you can do a bit of googling about it and if you want give us your opinion about the movie and the website from which it came (Clarion Project).

  65. @Slaveprophet
    Change is inevitable ,and so Hindus and the followers of other religions except Muslims have changed/adopted the new equations.What about you guys ,when will you come out of that weird 7nth century ideology of mad Mohammed.

  66. @Saket
    As per Hindu marriage act keeping multiple wives by Hindu is a offence and you will be behind the bar. But in ancient time many Hindu kings also had multiple wives. Social law changes according to time & circumstances. Prophet (PBUH) born in 7th century and  followed the custom of that time.

  67. @Demsci
    Saudi are best creation of Allah. This is not just opinion but this is truth. This truth is declared in Holy Quran. So, questioning or doubting in this is kufra in itself. I believe Quran is book of clear and easy understanding as this declared by itself Quran. So, interpreting Quran wrongly and makes some hidden meaning is absurd. Why Quran is only single book of the world which is available in most of the languages of the world? Because of its easiness and clarity. We should understand the Quran verses as they are. Applying/calming super human mind to understand Quran is against Quran itself. For example Quran says 9:39 verse says 
    Quran (8:39) – "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
    But many brain dead zombie Muslim try to interpret this simple and clear verse in wrong way  and allow non-believers to live in Islamic state and allow them to follow their false religion. That means they do not believe in this verse of Quran  and they are doubting in Quran. Most of wrong interpreters of Quran verses are non-Arab Muslims and Indian Muslims on the top.

  68. @cchucks
    Why do you expect repetitiveness of same thing in Holy Quran? Is not this single verse enough to instruct the people? 

  69. @Slaveprophet
    Why you want to become slave of so called BS prophet ?
    let me narrate his actions which i found only a psychopath can do(for you it is prophetic and for me only a satanic act).
    1. He married an innocent toddler of 6 and raped her (civilized society consider it as crime and the culprit is punished ,he is simply a criminal and so don't elevate him to prophet hood).
    Under 376 of Indian Penal Code his above act is crime punishable with death penalty.
    2. He being a father to a young son put his lustful desire on his daughter-in- law and forced his son to divorce her and then married her for his sexual desires ,thus paved the way for rampant demoralization of ethics in his followers .
    3. He killed the husband ,children and father of Safiya and try to marry her on the same day ,can you justifies this ?. You should have some shame.This is a clear case of genocide, the whole world condemns these kind of act under Geneva convention The person guilty of committing such offense is considered as criminal and not as prophet.
    4. He was a robber and dacoit ,who used to loot the caravans of innocent merchants ;capture their woman and children as slaves.The American constitution has considered slavery as offense long back and so the civilized world. It shows we humans are more merciful then Allah ,who has sanctioned slavery through the so called thug prophet.

    5.You are saying ;prophet said truth ,then why the Quran speaks about flat earth, sun set in the murky water ,moon is above the stars ,do you accept these are noble truth?. What about science in Quran ? to marry scores of woman and to produce laundry list of children. Wake up man ,or else you will be left behind .This modern world do not wait for waste materials (people).

    6. Why only followers of Mohammed need Burqa and long beard and scull cap etc ?,and why that kind of marching salutations to Allha .Is there any scientific reason for that ?,which Allah has disclosed only to Mohammed.So silly,stupid and weird following ,even if i wish ,i can't laugh at your idiocy, but nonetheless really pity on your communities plight.

  70. @Phoenix
     My name is Abdu Rasul English translation (Slave of prophet). I am proud to call myself slave of prophet. Prophet had many slave men and women. What is wrong to be slave of messenger of Allah?

  71. His English is pathetically pedantic."

    I don't get it either.Indian hindus speak english quite well,while muslim Indians speak like children.
    There seem to be something wrong with the muslim educational system.My guess is,they're too overly concerened with studying islam.

  72. slaveofprophet
    Okay,it's possible that someone hijacked your username but I have never heard of any muslim refering to himself as a slave of prophet "Muhammad".This is considered to be shirk by all muslims.Instead,muslims always refer to themselves as slaves of Allah.

  73. @Demsci
    //..Shabeer's reaction (which I suspect is from some apologist-website)//
    I am sure it is from some apologist website, most likely answering-christanity.com. His English is pathetically pedantic.

    //then it should make those apologists and Muslim-readers think and be much more modest/ humble in their boasting about Islam//
    What do you think happened to the stray reform movements within the ambit of Islam? Ahamadiyas are, for example, prosecuted in Pakistan where it is not even recognized!!

  74. @Chuck. Thanks for pointing it out. I was trying to understand Shabeer's reaction (which I suspect is from some apologist-website). And in that reaction this "Hima being only valid for A. + ap." was not addressed explicitly.

    This "Hima only valid for A. + ap." seems to me to make the attitude of Mohammed even more callous, opportunistic in this situation.

    Certainly his attitude here is not that of the calibre of a high moral leader. The apologists have difficulty even to exonerate Mohammed as much as possible when he is taken to task for this attitude. Let alone that it is a passage for which they can praise him.

    When counterjihadists point this out and apologists must address something like this which they like to avoid, then it should make those apologists and Muslim-readers think and be much more modest/ humble in their boasting about Islam and  in their attitude of judgement against Westerners.

    Shabeer attempted to show Mohammed in a good light, but you showed us (again) Mohammed's and Islam's ACHILLESHEEL. Well done.

  75. @slaveofprophet,
    Do you suffer from reading deficiencies? I challenged Shabeer to produce 10 for each of the 3 values. This was in response to him producing no less than 20 verses from Quran (and I think 38 from various hadeeths) alone on the treatment of the infidels. One verse here, another there won't do.

  76. @Cchucks
    For your kind information read below verse of divine Quran instructing to respect parents, relatives and slaves.
    Quran 4/36
    Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.

  77. @Demsci,
    I think you haven't read the full version of the hadeeth. Mohammad says that the institution of Hima (protection and preservation) is only valid for Allah and his apostle. So whatever proibitions were in place were to be looked in that very sense.

  78. @slaveofprophet
    You enter a debate without knowing the context. It was ME who had set a challenge to @Shabeer. The onus of proof lied with him. He failed. So if now you are claiming that the challenge can be met by YOU, then I am happy to allow you to prove. The challenge was to bring at least 10 Quranic verses about 3 human values: 1. Parental and sibling love, 2. Respecting men and women of other religions, 3. Treating war captives humanely.

  79. @CCHUCKS
    Dont beat around the bush bring evidence from Quran or Hadith  in support of your views.  

  80. @slaveofprophet
    //Why only 3?//
    :-). He couldn't meet the challenge for even one human value. It was generous from my side to allow him try for three.

  81. @cchucks
    Why only 3? Quran every single verse has massage of humanity. Prophet (PBUH) was not only messenger of Islam but messenger of truth, humanity, kindness, love, devotion, bravery, science. He was greatest diplomatic person ever born. Through his diplomatic skills he became the favorite person of Arabs very soon.

  82. @Mihir D
    When you will try to understand Islam and Muslims without feeling of hatred you will meet a lot of genius like me. A hate monger & Jealous person can not understand  Islam. One need devotional attitude to understand Islam. Devotion in Allah, Quran and in prophet (PBUH). God is not subject of intellect but devotion. Realm of God beyond human intellect that is why prophet said not to question much but be devotional in Allah, Prophet & Islam.

  83. Another possible meaning of Moh. is that the women and children of the pagans were the responsibility of the pagans, not of Moh. and the Muslims. That the pagans were to blame for being AMONG the women and children while they knew they were at war and could expect to be attacked. Almost as if the pagans, knowing Moh.'s prohibition of the killing of women-children, used them as a human shield.

    It is no good for Muslims to merely let Moh. look like the average general, lawgiver, spiritual moral leader. As the messenger of Allah, the most exemplary man, he should have brought something better, more moral. But in this example he is shown to be no better than non-Muslim-leaders.

    This war-situation and Moh.s (lack of) moral leadership in it definitely should make Muslims less judgemental about the war-situation in AFPAK and the conduct of the American leadership there, that if anything, is MORE moral and thoughtful and certainly CLEARER than that of Moh. See how people like Shabeer try to make Moh. look good and the American leaders bad in the same sort of situation.

  84. //"Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama: 
    The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was 
    permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and 
    children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e.pagans)."//

    Yes, there are many possible meanings for this Hadith. And yes, by all means see it in it's context. See the presumably EARLIER prohibition to kill decrepit old men, women and children" by Mohammed. See the circumstances as far as we can tell them, like it concerning a night attack, initiated by Muslims. And this creating a situation in which in darkness and confusion quick good distinction between soldiers-warriors and non-combatant women-children was impossible or exposing the Muslims to defeat.

    Under these circumstances the reaction of Mohammed is puzzling, far too incomplete, hence multi-interpretable. "They are from them" could mean Mohammed meaning: "Why do you care Muslims, they are PAGAN women and children, not Muslim ones!" The Tafsir-scholars and Shabeer are of course eager to point out that this was not what Moh. meant. And indeed, his general rule was that old men, women, children were not to be killed. But of course they were left to die or sold as slaves after the Muslims had killed their soldiers (and other MEN).

  85. @shabeer,
    //The very fact that the companions of the Prophet asked the Prophet's permission shows that the Prophet used to be strict regarding his prohibition on the killing of women and children//
    Given their record, it is far more likely that they knew the value of war captives (women and children) and so were worried that a loss was about to take place. Again I ask you to look at the hadeeth. Look how non-chalantly Muhammad says that they are from them. He doesn't say that Ohh, what can we do, unfortunately this is going to be a collateral damage. The only logic that he can show are 1. The women and children are from among the pagan (and hence liable to be killed), 2. The institution of HIma (preservation of nature, not cutting trees, especially useful trees etc) is only valid for Allah and His apostle (and hence only for Muslims).

    //Another possibility is that the hadith has been abrogated//
    Fix your mind. In another post you were saying that Quran and Sunnah is not abrogated!! You were clearly lying then, just as now. If this hadeeth has been abrogated then tell us what this has been abrogated by with proper references. Secondly, even if it has been abrogated, it is a Shahi hadeeth and hence the event definitely happened. The point isn't whether this is valid now, but that Muhammad followed his own mind and often violated his own codes as the situation demanded.

  86. Based on what Clare wrote, it is obvious that her ex has no character whatsoever. It is very unfortunate that you got yourself in this situation. It would be better that he didn't know of your pregnancy.
    If I were you, I would make everything possible for him not to take part in neither your son's nor your life.
    I would move to far away, maybe tell him that you miscarried as a result of your depression, and cut him off your life for good. Try to find a way. Be strong. God help you.

  87. This "slaveofprophet" is a genius. Saw him very now and then. I am all impressed boy. You The second best person on this site after Dr. Sina himself. 

  88. @shabeer
    //But we don’t know the EXACT situation //
    But in the last response you seem to be quite sure of the exact situation:-). Now changing track?
    //Maybe, maybe THOSE particular women and children were planning // That is your guess work. The hadeeth doesn't talk of any 'may be'. Remember this was a nightly raid when all were expectedly sleeping!!
    //they still had to attack them no matter at what cost in order to stop // Another may be. Again the hadeeth is very clear what the Muslims initially felt. If this was the case, they wouldn't even have asked Muhammad about it!!

  89. public Sex with slave act of ignorance:
    Muslim :: Book 40 : Hadith 6856 
    ……Qatada said: Abu Abdullah, would this happen? Thereupon he said: Yes. By Allah, I found this in the days of ignorance that a person grazed the goat of a tribe and did not find anyone but their slave-girl (and he did not spare her) but committed adultery with her.
    Slave sex prohibited:
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 93 :: Hadith 506 
    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: 
    That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, >>>>>>>>>.."It is better that you should not do i<<<<<<<<<<<<<<t, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it." 

  90. if u have any problem with eye /brain plz consult doctor as much as possible ,i will give u 20 evidence for the peace order during the prophet life period with pagan: 

  91. There are many possible meanings for these Hadith. I was kind of surprised when I read it at first. But we don’t know the EXACT situation or what the Prophet truly meant. Maybe, maybe THOSE particular women and children were planning to fight against the Muslims with the enemy.
    Maybe the Muslim army just could not have blown this chance to attack the enemy that they still had to attack them no matter at what cost in order to stop the risk of more blood shed (do a little bad for the greater good).
    The very fact that the companions of the Prophet asked the Prophet's permission shows that the Prophet used to be strict regarding his prohibition on the killing of women and children. However, when a situation arises and there is no choice, things could get ugly. The Prophet even forbade the cutting down of palm trees in war, however during the siege of Banu Nadir the Prophet had to make an exception. So exceptions do arise  unfortunately.
    Imam Ibn Hajar Al Asaqalani says in Fath Al- Baari that the point is not to target the women and children intentionally but if there is absolutely no other way to kill the enemy than by injuring the women and children because they are mixed with the men then there is no other choice. (Source: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Do
    Another possibility is that the hadith has been abrogated and that even if women and children accompany the enemy during war then they still should not be killed. (See http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Do… for the evidence)
    Imam Nawawi says in his tafseer of Saheeh Muslim that women and children are only killed only if they cannot be distinguished. But because it was so dark and they could not be distinguished, the Muslims had not choice. (Source: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Do
    The tafseer of Abu Dawud says the same thing here (Source: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Do

  92. @Phoenix
    I do not need certificate of non-believers for my faith in Islam, Prophet & Allah. Everyone is Muslim if he has firm faith in Quran, Allah and Prophet (PBUH). I believe Islam is only true & divine religion of the world.. I believe prophet Muhammad was the best creation of Allah. I believe Quran every word is from Allah. I believe prophet every single act was divine act. I believe non-believers in Allah are world worst of creatures. I believe non-believers must not be allowed to live in Islamic region because they are dangerous for Islam. They will misguide the believers in Allah. 

  93. Slaveofprophet

    Reading your comments on this article has led me to conclude that you are not a muslim.I suspected this a while back but never said anything because I knew you'd expose yourself eventually.
    There's no need for that kind of deception in order to fight Islam.Don't play by their rules.

  94. @KLMNOP
    I laugh on your ignorance. The movies you watch on Television take time of months to be completed.

  95. @KLMNOP
    What is your problem If female slave and Allah had no objection if prophet had intercourse with the slave woman? On contrary Allah allowed  and Slave woman was also  interested to have intercourse with prophet. Muhammad (PBUH).  Prophet intercourse in one night with 12 women is not proof of his prophet hood? Can a ordinary man have stamina to satisfy 12 women in one night?

  96. Shabeer : Your propit profiteer is already  burning in his hell pit , as punished by GOD . This is absolutely true.  If you want you can join the Monster MO soon and see for yourself.

  97. Guest

    Christianity,hinduism,atheism and others each comes with its own set of baggage but none is more fatal to the well being of humanity than Islam.It's possible to have a rational and mature debate online and in public with christians,hindus and atheists ,except muslims.They will kill you if they have the opportunity,no exceptions.

  98. The only reason Muhammad did not father a child by non-muslim (or even muslim) women ,because he was impotent.Muhammad could not control his orgasms that's why he ordered his men not to engage in coitus interruptus ( withdraw before ejaculation).

  99. Sometime human mind can not understand divine things.//
    You call sex with a pre-pubescent girl divine acts?

    Prophet wanted to protect these orphan girls from suicide and depression so he provided them food and shelter by marrying them.//
    Sex for food and shelter?…hmmm…Sounds eerily like prostitution.

  100. Hadith Sahih Sunan Abu Dawood, Book 38, Number 4348:

    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

    A blind man had an Ummu Walad (a female slave who has borne a child to her master), who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He (the blind man) forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

    He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

    Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

  101. Sunan An-Nasa'i 3411–It was narrated from Anas, that the Messenger of Allah had a female slave with whom he had intercourse, but Aishah and Hafsah would not leave him alone until he said that she was forbidden for him. Then Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed: "O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allah has allowed to you" [66:1] until the end of the verse.

    Allah tells Muhammad, in effect, "Why are you listening to your wives? Didn't I tell you that you are free to have sex with your slave girls?"

  102. I don't know what you are talking about! The hungry ones and content ones can both set new challenging goals for themselves. The difference is that the content ones do it for the sake of challenge itself (or for some other reason e.g they see it as their dharma to do so), whereas the hungry ones do it simply because there is hunger in them and they try to meet it. The hungry ones do not care about duality, maya, evolution, rational thinking, etc. If they can think up of a way to hoard more then that to them is 'rational thinking'. So you see, it is all in the human psychology.

    Muslims too behave the same way. The problem with them is that not only Islam does NOT offer any contentment, but fools them into believing that they are already on the best path!

  103. @Shabeer
    //1) women fighting with men against the Muslim //
    1. Where is the evidence of this in the hadeeth (that the women were fighting with the men)?
    2. The Hadeeth clearly talks about attacking in the night BY THE MUSLIMS. So here the muslims were on the offensive.
    3. The hadeeth clearly talks about the event BEFORE the fighting, so how do you know that the women were going to fight?
    4. The hadeeth also mentions children, will you say that even the children were going to fight?

    //2) the fight was happened during the night ,normally killing women is possible to war,no problem with it //
    1. It wasn't so much as a fight but a raid in the night. It shows what a wimpish coward person Mo was.
    2. You say no problems, but the muslims clearly had a problem with it so they asked Mohammad. But Mohammad didn't care just as you don't care.
    3. Since now you say that there is no problem if women get killed in such nightly raid you are clearly contradicting your own response in the last post:-). This is the problem with Islam, every time you try to prove something good in Islam it can be proven otherwise very easily using your own words:-)

  104. /They keep taking even after the hunger has been met. (They keep taking because they remember how hunger feels, that is, their psychology is still hungry)/
    Really today you have touched my pulse ,my friend.Hats off !!!. This is what i was yearning for.Some one fixes a boundary and say, i have reached this height and challenges other ,not to dare to reach it .Some how one will take it as challenge (courtesy evolution) and reaches the height ,then what next .Two options left for him ,either he has to extend the boundary further with his rational thinking or has to distilled the barrier further ,which he has reached (already), and if he chose to follow the later decision ,there he comes into face to face encounter with duality and reality in other words ,which is absolute and which is duality (Maya). Here in this exact point a Prophet comes into existence to show a balanced and righteous way of life to humanity(again courtesy to evolution) .These are my self opinion and i wish no one should consider it as offending ,if they feel it is against their belief and opinion.

  105. 1) women fighting with men against the Muslim

    2) the fight was happened during the night ,normally killing women is possible to war,no problem with it

  106. ["Remember this is world of giving. You must give like God gives in order to have a re-giving to you."]

    So if I give like God gives, with the expectation/ hope that there will be a re-giving to me, doesn't THAT make me selfish?
    I am afraid your understanding is faulty and that is why you rail against Atheists. Takers take because they are, or have been, HUNGRY. It doesn't matter whether they are Atheists or agnostics or religious people. They keep taking even after the hunger has been met. (They keep taking becuase they remember how hunger feels, that is, their psychology is still hungry). They cannot give! Even if they join your religion, any giving that they do is simply going to be a hollow ritual and they will quickly find a way to take even in your religion.

    To [truly] give, first one has to be content himself/herself, and this contentment has to reach deep into one's psychology. Once one is content, s/he gives without having any 're-giving' on his/her mind. And it does not matter if the person is religious or Atheist!

  107. Clara – Don't listen to the Islamists here or the atheists. They both have bad advice. Ali gave you great advice from making the huge mistake of having intercourse with this barbarian. All Muslims and atheists are really barbarians. The only real way to know the truth is though Christianity. It is the morals for the future. You see humans are not born moral, they must be taught morals and how to act and react in a giving way. Islamists look to exploit this selfishness and the atheists don't want to be told they are selfish. Both are a form of evil. Only a doctrine that describes a God of love and giving is true, all others are false. Therefore out of all the worlds religions and beliefs only Christian and the God of Love give the truest picture of God and reality. The others are all destructive and selfish. They will not survive. Remember this is world of giving. You must give like God gives in order to have a re-giving to you. ONLY people who give can be loving. All takers are selfish and therefore out of step with God and cannot be loving. GodSpeed.

  108. //"Those who are not generally engaged in fighting – like women, children, the elderly, the handicapped, and others who do not participate in the fighting – are not to be killed."//

    This was and is the attitude of the American and allied forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Indeed, the purpose of drone-warfare is to be as precise as possible in targeting only combatants and as much as possible avoiding killing innocent civilians.

    So don't you appreciate this attitude of the Americans and allies? If you do appreciate it, do you tell this to the Pakistani's?

    If you don't what is the difference between the Americans waging war and Mohammed waging war according to you? If it clearly isn't that Mohammed was more humane than the Americans?

  109. Slave, I am much puzzled by this, I thought you were an ally to Shabeer, through thick and thin. You mostly act that way here.

    Earlier you wrote that SAUDI's were best creation of Allah in your opinion. And I thought that Shabeer is an Indian, as you are. So is that why you think Shabeer knows little arabic and really is quite ignorant about Islam? (But both of you seem to be Sunni Muslims.)

    Are there any differences in interpreting Islam between you two? If so which? Since you are always so radical do you perhaps see him as too moderate?

    Or perhaps you see him as overzealous and ruining things for Muslims, being a negative influence with his copy-pasting and his bad English? Or perhaps you see him as a fake-Muslim, secretly helping Ali Sina? Because his posts attract so many responses, that are detrimental for Islam, when these responses would not have been given and possible without Shabeer's many challenges?

  110. //"Prophet (PBUH) all acts from marriage to 6 years old Aisha to 45 years old Khadija were highest example of morality  for all people of the world."//

    Slave, please do the mathematics; as far as you know Mohammed was born in 570 AD, married Khadija in # 595 AD, when he was 25 and she 40. But only in 610 AD Mohammed got revelation to become prophet. He was not prophet before, but an ordinary man, so why would his earlier life be used as example?

    Also his motivation may well have been that she was rich and his boss, and he was poor. Such marriages happen all the time.

    You have no proof that he married Khadija as a young man in order to take care of an older widow who needed him. So no ground to set him up as a moral example who did this.

  111. Clara, It is very clear that this man doesn't love you and he does not know what he wants. Since you dated him, he has been in a relationship with 2 other women? Being in love is not like changing a pair of underwear everyday of the week, and this man is treating you like this. At first he wanted you to abort the baby and now he wants to be the father?. I think there will be more harm if you let this "man-child" help raise your baby. Your ex really does not have the maturity to be married, much-less raise a child. I know it is hard but try to be strong for your baby. You may not believe it now but time help heal the wounds. Raise your child into the man that his father was incapable of being. Your son will need you more than ever, you will be God in his eyes. I really from my heart hope you overcome this. I don't know you in person but I really feel for you. Believe in your strength, you have it.

  112. The women and children were more useful alive to the muhammadans because they were either thrown into harems as sex slaves or sold as merchandise.

  113. slavementality,
    He was incapable of impregnating any woman, either a muhammadan or a non muhammadan.
    You are right that Muhammad had no child from a non-muhammadan because the paternity of the child given birth to by Coptic Mary, Hafsa's maid, is highly disputed.

  114. //Indeed, the hadîth in question actually shows us that the general rule is not to kill non-combatants, even when they are present on the battlefield. The only exception is when the non-combatants are so mixed in with the fighters that it is impossible to fight against the combatants without the possibility of some non-combatants inadvertently being killed. This is only out of dire necessity. //
    Absolutely not. The hadeeth clearly shows that the muslims were worried that children and women might get killed, but Muhammad didn't care. All that mattered to him was to attack the polytheists and win. His statement “They are of them” means that he simply didn't care.

  115. @cchucks
    Prophet (PBUH) all acts from marriage to 6 years old Aisha to 45 years old Khadija were highest example of morality  for all people of the world.

  116. Those who are not generally engaged in fighting – like women, children, the elderly, the handicapped, and others who do not participate in the fighting – are not to be killed. The Prophet (peace be upon him) prohibited this. His prohibition of the killing of women and children is clearly related by Ibn `Umar in Sahîh al-Bukhârî (3015) and Sahîh Muslim (1744).

    The only exception to this is where such people participate directly in the fighting or are so intermixed with the fighters that it is impossible to separate them from those who are fighting. This exception is indicated by the hadîth of al-Sa`b b. Jathâmah. The Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked about the women and children of the polytheists who were among them and who would be injured if the enemy was attacked. He said: “They are of them.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (3021) and Sahîh Muslim (1475)]

    In short, non-Muslims living in Muslim lands, those who are under covenant, and those with whom we have peace cannot be attacked. As for those who are at war with us, the combatants may be fought and killed. Those who are not combatants cannot be killed or targeted for killing. The only way that they can be killed is as an unintentional consequence of fighting against the enemy combatants.

    Indeed, the hadîth in question actually shows us that the general rule is not to kill non-combatants, even when they are present on the battlefield. The only exception is when the non-combatants are so mixed in with the fighters that it is impossible to fight against the combatants without the possibility of some non-combatants inadvertently being killed. This is only out of dire necessity.

    Ibn Hajar writes in his commentary on this hadîth in Fath al-Bârî (6/146):

    His statement “They are of them” means that they are construed as such under those circumstances. It does not mean that it is permissible to deliberately target them.

    It is a matter of agreement among scholars that a person’s unbelief is not reason for that person to be killed. There is considerable evidence for this. Aside from the Prophet’s prohibition of killing non-combatants, we have where Allah says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 256]

  117. @shabeer
    Foolish. 1. Abortion is done before the child is born. The zygote doesn't qualify as 'an infant'.
    2. What Mo said and what he did are 2 different things. When it came to personal benefits he didn't care whether children or women are killed. Consider this shahi hadeeth:
    Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:
    Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:
    The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was
    permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and
    children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e.pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His
    Apostle."
    3. Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 420 isn't about legal abortion but blood money to be paid in case of accidental abortion because of being beaten.

  118. @shabeer,
    Remember the time when I asked you to bring 10 quranic verses each for 3 human values? You simply couldn't. And then on the second instance when I asked about historical reference all you could produce were some silly words your Mohammad had said and some of them were irrelevant too (I proved that by giving proper translations from tafsirs)

  119. @Shabeer
    Do you know who was best creation of Allah? I do not think you have any knowledge of Islam. You come here only throw your copy paste garbage. If you have guts answer my question. 

  120. @Phoenix
    Prophet  (PBUH)got sanctioned for all his acts from almighty Allah. We can not question to Allah will. Sometime human mind can not understand divine things. Prophet marriage with 6 years old Aisha and 45 years old Khadija were divine acts. Prophet did marry with non-believers girls and wives because husband and father of these girls got killed in war for Allah by prophet companion. Prophet wanted to protect these orphan girls from suicide and depression so he provided them food and shelter by marrying them.

  121. ABORTION A PUNISHED OFFENSE UNDER THE ISLAMIC LAW:
    Abortion PROHIBITED :-punishment[ releasing A slave]
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 420
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 41,42,44,45,50
    Muslim :: Book 16 : Hadith 4166 ,4167, 4168, 4170, 4171, 4174
    Dawud :: Book 14 : Hadith 2608
    Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, o a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well.
    81: 8. And when the female (infant) buried alive (as the pagan Arabs used to do) shall be questioned.
    9. For what sin she was killed?

    PLZ GIVE THE EVIDENCE OF ALL RELIGION FOR "" KILLING INFANT "" :ISLAMIC STAND I AM EXPLAIN ABOVE

  122. not me ,U r escaping from the " 10 Islamic pace ordered " …………..if u like to fail again and again ,let we can start the debate:

  123. I will remove any copy paste material Shabeer posts. If he can’t have a normal conversation like anyone else I will remove him too from the forum.

  124. @Shabeer,
    And some other brain dead people like you run away from debates when it gets hot at the bottoms:-)

  125. @ Clara
    Children are Gods,do not do the wrong of abortion AND do not raise him Muslim or Christian ,give him good ethics let him develop in his own way ,a help full kind human being.

  126. @ Administrator
    It is my humble request ;do not allow this SHABEER to copy paste here ,he is doing this purposely to hijack attention from real topic at hand .

  127. As I always stated, I'm against islam.
    What I want to ask is that once a person that is against islam said: 'If a Muslim ask to me to help him to adjust the roof of his house, I would do so, but if he ask to me to not build a Christmas tree, I would refuse!'
    What do you think about that?

  128. Some brain dead people opinion can't be consider as valuable evidence,plz prove with evidence ,then we can decide who r going to be punished

  129. Clara, please listen to Mr. Sina's advice.  You have to move on for the sake of your child.  It's best to not let this Muslim man have anything to do with your child.  I'd recommend for you to watch a movie called "Not Without My Daughter".  Be strong.

  130. Muhammad should have been stoned to death for all the rapes,pedophilia and adultery he committed.He broke every law the Quran prescribes for muslims.Your infallible leader was chosen as the best example of mankind but he had rules broken (not even bent) especially for him because he was unable to restrain himself, as any sane and rational adult is supposed to do.

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