The Trinity for Dummies

A Muslim asked me regarding the Trinity.  The concept of trinity is one that Muslims can’t get their heads around. It is not because it is difficult to understand but because Muhammad could not understand it. If Muslims understand it, then it becomes evident that they are smarter than their prophet, which proves he was not a prophet of God. Since for them such an idea is inconceivable, they will do everything in their power to not understand.  Knowing Muslims I also am sure they will stop reading further as soon as things start making sense and “click.” Because if it clicks they will have no option but to agree that Muhammad was a liar.  Few Muslims will read this article to the end and if they do they will do their best not to understand it.

Muhammad’s inability to comprehend the concept of Trinity is evident in the Quran.

People of the Book, … Do not say that there are three gods. It is better for you to stop believing in the Trinity. There is only One God.” (Q. 4: 171)

He also made up a conversation between God and Jesus where God Asks Jesus whether he has claimed to be God.

When God asked Jesus, son of Mary “Did you tell men to consider you and your mother as their gods besides m he replied, “Glory be to you!” How could I say what I have no right to say? Had I ever said it, You would have certainly known about it.(Q. 5:116)

Any rational person will agree that such conversation that would show God’s ignorance of what Jesus was doing and saying behind his back is not likely. Can possibly God be the author of the above verse?  shouldn’t Muslims have at this this much integrity to agree that this verse is not a revelation from God?  Even Muhammad seems to have been aware of the absurdity of his hair brained story.  Why would he then make it up and attribute it to God making the Almighty look like a nuts?  He repeats his ignorance of the Trinity again:

Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are.(Q. 5:72-75)

Apparently Muhammad was quite impressed by himself.  In this brief article I am going to make things clear for Muslims to show that the one who was deluded was Muhammad. This article is not to prove the Trinity, but to explain the concept of it and show that it is not absurd and contrary to science and reason.

Before explaining the concept of Trinity let me dispel the mystery behind this word. The truth is that everyone is a trinity.  Is it not true that each person consists of a mind, a body and a soul?   So are you one or three?  Your soul, your mind and your body are different dimensions of you.  The three is one.  Does your trinity challenge your oneness?  Another example is space. The width, the height and the depth of space do not contradict its integrity and oneness.

We can understand complex ideas with simple examples.  Sun shines on all things.  Things become visible when they reflect the light of the sun.  All objects absorb some of the light and reflect some. Depending what frequencies they absorb, we see them colorful.  There is one object that reflects light in its entirety. That object is the mirror.  If you hold a mirror in front of the sun you can see the sun inside the mirror.  You can point at the mirror and say that is the sun, and you would be right. You are not talking about the mirror which is made of glass.  You are talking of the reflection of the sun in it.  This does not mean that the sun is divided in two or has descended physically to enter the mirror.  The sun remains intact, while at the same time it can be viewed in the mirror.

Now compare God to the sun and the immaculate soul of Jesus to the mirror. If God is present in the soul of every human, can’t He appear in all His glory in the soul of a sinless man such as Jesus?

We all carry the spirit of God in us. Our soul is the breath of God. Where there is life there is consciousness and all consciousness is from God.  There is a piece of God in every living being. All life forms are divine.  Since God’s consciousness is present in every creature, to the extent of the perfection of that creature, is it not possible that a perfect man could reflect God’s consciousness more faithfully than others?

When we say Jesus was God, we are not talking about his physical body. We know that he ate and drank like everyone else. So his body was made of the same molecules and atoms that make any other person.  We also know that the molecules composing a human body are recycled constantly.  Old cells die and new ones are born every day. In seven years, not a single atom in your body will remain the same. So clearly we are not talking about the physical body of Jesus.  (Unfortunately many Christians make this mistake, which Muslims take advantage of.) We are talking of his soul, which became the mirror, upon which the spirit of God shined.  This example although easy to understand has its flaws, because Jesus was not a reflection of God, He was God walking on earth without God descending from his throne or setting foot on earth.  When you copy a file on your hard drive, the copy is the same as the original.

  • “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)
  • “He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9)
  • “He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me.” (John 12:45)

What is the Holy Spirit?  In the above example we compared God to sun and Jesus to a mirror.  The Holy Spirit can be compared to the rays of the sun that reflect on the mirror. The Holy Spirit made God reflect on Jesus.

Now let us move to science and reason.  An object made of matter cannot be divided and maintain its integrity at the same time. If you divide an apple in two, it is no longer one. Objects that are smaller than atom are not subject to this law. Particles are subject to a different set of laws called quantum physics. A Particle can be split in two and still be one. And it can be in the past and the present at once. Particles are not affected by space and time. Space and time are properties of matter and are essentially the same.   This means that if you are a particle, you are timeless and all over places, popping in and out of now and here. This is observable.  Einstein showed that matter gives birth to time and space. Where there is no matter, there is no space-time.

If consciousness is structured information in the form of energy independent from body, which I believe to be the case, as I have shown here and here, it also can’t be subject to the time-space quantum. If the behavior of particles are any clue as to how a timeless and space less world works, then we should assume that our consciousness will be ubiquitous as well as eternal, just like electrons and photons.  If particles can be in multiple places, why can’t consciousness?  Although it is hard to imagine, it can be understood logically that where there is no time and space, past and future are the same, and here is just as near as the edge of the universe.  This means our consciousness can be in two places at the same time, much like the way our thoughts can be in two places at the same time. If this is possible for us, why it should not be so for God?

Another example is information.  A teacher can share his knowledge with his students and while the students experience an increase in their knowledge the teacher does not lose any of his.  You can’t do that with physical objects. If you give some of your money to another person, in the same proportion that he is enriched you are impoverished.

The essence of God is consciousness.  God is not subject to time and space. Once we leave this physical body we also won’t be subject to them. Future and past are present and present is eternity. It is all the same.  Here and there will have no meaning. As a spirit you can be in two different places at once. In fact it is not unlikely that you may be in another body at this very moment, living an entirely different life. You may be of different gender, of different age and belong to different race, or even live in a different planet in another galaxy.  You may even see yourself in the street and not recognize yourself. Past and future reincarnations are also meaningless.  In the spiritual world, there is no past and future. Everything is happening now. This is the weirdness of a world not bound by space-time quantum. We know this through our knowledge of quantum mechanics. Consciousness is also a form of energy that is not subject to the space-time.

If the above is within the realm of possibilities for us, how can God not be able to be in different places at once? How can He be subject to time and space when He is the one who has made them?

The world that you see is a mirage. It is not real. The foundation of this visible world is the sub atomic world.  Particles form the matter, and matter gives birth to space and time. God is not made of matter. He is pure consciousness. He can deposit His essence in His creatures without losing any of His own.  God is in all of us and yet, He is not diminished.  Consciousness, like knowledge, can be shared and given away without being reduced.  Therefore, if God is said to be in Jesus, the oneness of God is not affected.  He is not split in two nor is diminished. God is one and at the same time He can be three, and even millions. In fact God is infinite. Every life form is a manifestation of God.  If you see the sun reflected in millions of mirrors, it does not mean the sun is divided in pieces.  This should also make clear the concept of multitudes of deities in Hinduism. Despite believing in two million gods, Hindus are monotheists. But Muslims will never understand this mystery, even when it is so simple.

Consciousness is another term for spirit.  All living beings are conscious because they have the spirit of God in them.  The difference between Jesus and us is only in degrees. We can say he was like a mirror, reflecting God’s consciousness in its full glory, while we are like other objects reflecting Him partially.

With this explanation, it is clear that Muhammad did not know the nature of God. Had he known that God is consciousness he would not have had any difficulty understanding the concept of Trinity.  If God were a person made of matter like us, then Muhammad would have been right. This proves he had no spiritual insight.  Despite being a superbly cunning man, spiritually he was a dunce. Muslims who bring up the argument of Trinity to beat up Christians are just showing their own spiritual ignorance.

Not only Muhammad did not understand the concept of Trinity, he was also confused about the doctrine itself. He thought the three persons representing the Trinity are Jesus, Mary and God. That is because his knowledge of the Bible was second hand. Being an illiterate man he had not read the Bible himself.

The above is my understanding of the Trinity. I am not speaking on behalf of Christians. I know many Christians are also confused about the Trinity and they believe in it as a dogma. I am a rationalist not a dogmatic. I rejected God for lack of reason and now I believe in God through reason. Therefore my views of God may differ from those who have blind faith.

 

More evidence from the weird world of quantum  entanglement

Another peculiarity of a world that is not subject to space and time can be seen in quantum entanglement.  One particle can split and the two parts can become intertwined so that they always share the same properties, even if they’re separated by billions of light years. If you then affect a change of status in one of them, its counterpart will be affected instantly even if it is on the other side of the universe. This is what Einstein called the spooky action at a distance.

Since our notion of reality is based on space and time it is difficult for us to make sense of it.  However, quantum entanglement opens a new door to the understanding of the subatomic world.  This so called spooky action is not the property of particles; it is rather a characteristic of the timeless and spaceless world.

Particles are energy. Thoughts and consciousness are also energy. Since they are not subject to space and time, they must behave similarly. Therefore, it is not irrational to say that consciousness/spirit can split in two, like particles, and remain entangled. One part can come to Earth as Jesus and the other part remain in the immaterial world as God. They are not half of each other. Each part is whole and undivided and both are one.

We have no way of understanding the spiritual world, but quantum physics is a window into a different world that does not follow the Newtonian laws of physics. This allows us to think differently, unrestrained by the constraints of the atomic wold of matter. And when we do that, we don’t have to base our belief in God on faith but on reason and science. Quantum physics is the science of the immaterial and spiritual world.  he world we learn about quantum physics the more we know about our spiritual reality.

 

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No Responses

  1. Ricardo Hotatio says:

    Excellent article Ali, thank you.

  2. unknown111 says:

    karma is true,,,,

  3. unknown111 says:

    karma is true,,,,

  4. pran says:

    Shabeer, Better go and fight wit ISIS or Hamas and save them. Instead of arguing with Highly qualified persson like Chuck

  5. cchuckc says:

    @Shabeer
    My little swine. You have failed this challenge. Anything else you say on this thread only proves your ignorance. As far as the discussion on other threads are concerned you seem to have no knowledge of common etiquette that discussions on one thread shouldn't be jumbled with different discussions. But expecting etiquette from a Mulim like you is too much, I agree.
    And on other threads I have already answered you, you have no answer for them so you try to abuse and slander me 🙂 Thats a mark of defeat.

  6. shabeer says:

    POOR CHUCK FAILED SECTION PEDOPHILE ,NOW COME TO HERE LIKE A  JOKER MONKEY
    U HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASKING QUESTION HERE:
    FIRST U ADMIT THE FAILED 1)(MIRACLE DISCOVERY OF HINDU VEDA )
    2)EXCEPT ISLAM ,NONE OF RELIGION ON EARTH NEVER/EVER  SUPPORT GIRLS MARRIAGE (HER PERMISSION/PUBERTY)
    3) AS A VEDA AGREED PERSON U MUST BE PROUD OF SON OF HORSE………

    AGREED THREE THING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE,
    THEN COME TO DEBATE WITH ME…….I WILL ANSWER U'R QUESTION………

  7. cchuckc says:

    @Shabeer
    Even after 6 weeks of constant nagging you haven't been able to prove your point. In fact you ran away from this discussion. hence it can now be claimed that Q50:7 is definitely an error in Quran.

  8. Nasr says:

    God use We and I, Us and Me when God speaks in the verses. You can read about royal We/Us from Hebrew or Arab's perspective. BUT If God is three in nature. God will always use We or Us in all of His (of Their??) verses.  

    So to do a verification about God being singular. We need to read verses that refer to God in plural third person. Can you find any verse in Quran or Israelite scriptures that uses phrase like "It is They who…", as opposed to the usual phrase "It is He who… " . Making it clear that God is indeed One singular unique God.

  9. Supriya says:

    Jesus/ Indian protestant Christian
    //Everyone suffers every human being suffers they suffer you suffer i suffer somtimes in life so that one day they when they will be cured and delivered they will see the glory of our God through Jesus Christ his son.

    Even the rich and poor both handicapped healed and well come to Christ i have seen this that's why i tell you//
    You said God is the only truth then why does he wish to suffer ?

    //The doctrine that God created the world out of nothing rather than emanating it out. If God is in everything, God is in both good and evil. Individuality is illusion according to Eastern mysticism. Not that we're not real, but that we are not distinct from God or each other. Since individuality is illusion, so is free will. If free will is illusion, so is sin. And if sin is illusion, so is hell.//
    You said God is the only truth,then why should He not be in both, good and evil.
    You believe in holographic universe then why should individual is not an illusion ?
    Do you believe in superstitious concepts of hell and heaven( which your christianity teaches)?

    //Unlike Hinduism which teaches power it is outside of you and we cannot do anything because there is no personal relationship with God in Hinduism, no connection with God, neither does Hinduism teach we are united with god through the holy spirit and Christ, and we have the Image of God within us that gives us the power, we are part of God and God is part of us.//
    You said that you have studied Hinduism. But I doubt.You know nothing about Hinduism and your comments are based on prejudices/hostilities towards Hinduism.
    First ,let me tell you Hinduism is the only religion which states I am God.
    The word Yog is derived from the sanskrit root Yuj. ,Yuj and Yog means union.Union of Atma with Paramatma i.e. Moksha is the aim of every person( according to Hinduism).
    We dont believe that one can unite with God through holy spirit or other person like Jesus. One has to attain Moksha by his own efforts( without taking help of holy spirit).

    //There is evidence for this too that's why your fanatic hindu breathern become so desperate and perturbed that they attack Christians and try to stop conversions. We are only one to two percent against you 90 percent why so much desperation for such a small number because more and more are coming to Christ this is the evidence.//
    I have no problem if a hindu gets converted to christianiy.I have christian friends.
    In my opinion, the hindu who doesnt know his own religion can convert to other religion.This is because of the 1] lack of awareness/educaion of on religion 2] business of christianity. They convert people by fooling and helping poor people, backward people( I said I have no problem if someone gets converted to other religion).
    I have provided you some links in which you can find pro-science western christians are converting to Hinduism. May I provide you more links to clear your doubts ?

    //If you Keep believing in Maya that this world is an illusion//
    but you also believe in holographic universe, dont you?
    //If you Keep believing in Maya that this world is an illusion and illusion that was made up in the minds of foolish men.//
    same question.dont you believe in holoraphic universe and God is the only truth(Brahma satyam,jagat mithyam) ?

    //through Christ we get power from there power to heal sickness//
    so christianity says power is not within you and you should receive power from christ ?
    why people are sick if they are portions of perfect God?

    //Now, I will tell you why ALL old religions will be transformed. Basically they are no longer needed and CANNOT lead people further on their consciousness journey. Their time is up. You know how you can tell? They ALL have a degradation called supremacy. You see the thought that each religion is supreme over others is the seed of its destruction. ALL things die and so do ideologies.//
    then why do you believe in holographic universe and God is the only truth( Hinduism) ? Are you converted to hinduism,religion of your ancestors?

  10. Supriya says:

    Jesus/ Indian protestant Christian
    //NOTHING is is conscious,intelligent and unborn vibration nothing exists without God or us human beings because we are the OBSERVER and by observing we bring it into creation. //
    This is the philosophy of Hinduism( not Christianity).
    Hindu sages said, " Brahma Satyam, Jagat Mithyam".It means God is the only truth and the universe which we see around us is an illusion/holographic. Due to illusion one can't see that God is experiencing his limitless potential. One can understand this in deep meditation.

    // We are all consciousness.//
    Again his is philosophy of Hinduism.1] .Pragyan Brahma(God). it means Consciousness is Brahma – Aitarey Upanishad3.3 of Rigveda
    2]Ayam Atma Brahma.It mans The Self(Atma) is Brhma(God).-Mandukya Upanishad 1.2 ofAtharva Veda
    3] Tat Twam Asi. It means That Thou Art( You are that)-Chandogya Upanishad 6..7 of Sam Veda
    4] Aham Brahmasmi. It means I am Brahma(God)-Brihad Aryanka Upanishad 1.4.10 of Yajur Veda

    //Everything in the world matter is in a state of probability possibility a state of vibration or possiblities the wavefunction either existing or non existing when ONLY the observer (man with the with the image of God) only OBSERVES the wavefunction he brings it into existance he collapses the wavefunction ie the electron's postion is revealed it's reality exists only when OBSERVED by someone otherwise is just a superposition of states, a probability somewhere non existing//
    You are right . And therefore Hindu sages said the universe or anything that we see is an illusion because we can't see the Truth i.e. God because of the unawareness of the Truth. God splits into this diverse world for a particular time period and then again contracts. This phenomenon continues for innumerable times.
    Hindu sages knew the Truth.

    //Englightenment is not just sitting comfortably under a tree or sitting in an cool AC room and getting "Englightenment"
    you have to work your way through englightenment through suffering and pain//
    This is the philosophy of Buddhism(not Christianity).

    How do you ( as a Christian) actually approach/ attain enlightenment without meditating?

    //This afterlife is not a rebirth or a reincarnation into another body here on earth. It is either eternal suffering in hell (Matthew 25:46) or eternal life in heaven with Jesus, who died so that we might live eternally with Him. This should be the focus of our life on earth. The apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 6:8-9, “The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life//.
    1]Do you mean that one portion of God( you as a christian) enjoys in heaven and other part of God( Supriya,non christian)suffers in hell because I am not born to christian parents or my ancestors were not converted by christian missionaries.
    You said God is the only truth. Why do you believe in the concepts of hell and heaven?

  11. Supriya says:

    Dr. Sina ,Hinduism is the only religion which states God is within everything and everywhere i.e. He is all-pervasive.
    One verse from Isha Upanishad :
    Ishavashyamidam Sarvam
    Yatkincha Jagatang Jagat
    Tena Tyaktena Bhujintha
    Ma Gridha Kasysaswit Dhyanam

    It means the whole universe(visible & dark matter ) is the manifestation of God. Nothing is Godless. All living and non-living things are manifestation of God.

  12. Supriya says:

    Dr. Sina
    You said //Particles are energy. Thoughts and consciousness are also energy. Since they are not subject to space and time, they must behave similarly. Therefore, it is not irrational to say that consciousness/spirit can split in two, like particles, and remain entangled. One part can come to Earth as Jesus and the other part remain in the immaterial world as God. They are not half of each other. Each part is whole and undivided and both are one. //
    I don't know whether Jesus spit into two or not.
    Siddh Yogis( those who had attained enlightenment ) were expert in this type of Siddhi. They could split into two( if they wished) and after a period of time the two parts could unite to become one. One part was exact replica of other and the two parts could work separately for different intentions/aims.

  13. Nasr says:

    If we use such comparison. & Compare to plague that killed millions of "Christian" in Europe , does not that proof Islam is of truth?

  14. Nasr says:

    Romans interpret Aramaic teachings wrongly without Jewish Nasoreans/Ebionites scholars guiding them. No Israelites view Holy Spirit as God.

    Since they were using own judgement without guidance from Jewish Nasoreans/Ebionites scholars close to Jesus (pbuh) . This led to misguided understanding of Israelite scriptures as can be seen when one read read Greek Christian scriptures.

    They thought Holy Spirit is God as Holy Spirit being referred with title God’s Spirit. And they thought Jesus is ‘special’ son of God as they believe Jesus becomes flesh due to Holy Spirit (claimed to be God) creating life in womb of a woman. And they say Jesus is also God as they believe Jesus is Word of God before given flesh , that exist at the same time with the Spirit and Almighty God.

  15. TanKuK says:

           Muhammed didn't seen Allah so please can you just stop critic this Muhammed never said that he have seen God OKay so can you just stop talking about islam

  16. TanKuK says:

            Look Mr i'm really not free i have a lot of work if you just critic what you don't understand or even can't understand i'm not free for that i say " A" you see it "B" and i don't like when someone talk without his mind "on" 

             Do you heard about something called " I have a brain " ?? i think yes and Do you know that we can think with this Brain? i think yes and do you know that we can't be Idiots and fool when we have a brain ? i think yes 

          So, do you think that i'm fool No sorry you are in the wrong thinking + we in Islam have the proof okay + do you think that Muhammed talked to God to bring all the Quran Oh please ! read the History of him after come to talk about him + do you know sometimes i feel like you are in an other dimention where you can't see the reality every good thing you see it as a bad thing + you create new stories and bring some of them from Fase " Hadith "  and i hate this if you are not cultured please don't talk because i don't have time for this  + in the End we will see who is satan and who is Jesus and who is Allah okay  you can open your mouth how much you like  but in the End no one can open his mouth much us he want because it's not admited  + you don't have the right and i don't have the right and every one will have his right

  17. TanKuK says:

           The majority of them stay in Islam i have never seen in my contry someone converted exept Jews we don't have christian i th ink 
      
         Dear mr do you have a problem of reading  ? you can't understand a simple english ?
    I 'm saying and saying an repeating that Lie is not admitted  even if  a Muslim want's to leave Islam it's his life he will go to hell not me + Allah never mentioned that we can lie okay + we will be punished if we lie so please read well

  18. TnKuK says:

           Yes i know what i'm talking about + I forgot Jews too but Christians are more mentioned that jews in this  subject of Trinity i think 
           i like to write like this it's more ordred than talking generally it's more detailed fore every world Sina said

  19. pankaj says:

    Your analysis is superb and brings the concept of trinity in Christianity and Hindu scriptures togather with concepts of quantum physics.I went to formal Catholic school for initial 6 years of my schooling, had a friend whose father who was bishop of protestant cathedral.I born a Hindu on banks of Ganga and Yamuna at Allahabad and Varanasi, had opportunity to listen to various authorities on Hindu religion and my own experiments and read in on meditation I cannot resist but compliment you whole heartedly, you have understood the things in right perspective.

  20. cchuckc says:

    @knowtheEnemy
    // I would know exactly what was said and there would be not an iota of confusion in my mind!//
    Which concurs with what I said. Some see in Raam, what some other see in Krishna and yet others see in Shiva, and you see in Mother Goddess. We are all colour blind in one colour or the other and examples and glimpses of Leela which suit one person differs from what suits another person. One thing to understand is that all avtars were human beings and had one imperfection or the other which actually shows the benevolence of the God to come down and talk in human terms, go through the pains and rigours of human life and trump the odds. I personally find avtarvad very fascinating and of all the avtars, Raam most perfect (to the extent that a Dharmic person is required to be) example of God in human form.

  21. knowTheEnemy says:

    [" The fallacy is if we replace Raam by, say Krishna, the question will still remain, why Krishna why not some other character etc etc."]

    I think you misunderstood what I am asking. I do have a decent enough idea about why Krishna is seen as Supreme Lord by many. It is Raam that I do not fully understand as to why he is seen as 'Supreme Lord'….. And I am hoping for some easy to understand explanation.

    I did some research and came across this website that explains how Raam can be 'Supreme-Lord'. Quote from site:

    Madhvacharya says – "Ram literally means the supreme bliss, Ram means the Brahman (the absolute, the supreme element) as well as Ishwara (the god with form). Both"

    Even though Madhvacharya said "Both", I realized from reading the whole article that they see Raam as a 3-in-1 personality – Brahman (God without form), Ishwar (God with form), and Avatar (human incarnation of God, just like Jesus)!

    Now that I have contemplated on this after reading this article, I feel that in Bhakti one has to feel some sort of connection with the Avatar…. which brings me to another part of your comment-

    ["Just ask yourself do you see something special in Raam."]?

    In Raam I see a person who despite being imperfect, strove to live by Dharma, and that IMO makes him [one of the various] role-model for everyone. We are all imperfect, and have committed one or more wrongs in our lives, but despite all this we should strive to live by Dharma. (Maybe this is what the authors of Ramayan wanted to teach when they introduced faults in Raam!)

    Bhakti however, isn't all about *seeing* something in our Ishwar (or the Avatar). It is also about feeling something emotional for the deity…. and all I feel regarding Raam is what people feel about their role-models who are not God! This feeling (of connection) strongly contrasts with what I feel regarding Mother Goddess. If someone says "Mother Goddess is Supreme Lord", I would know exactly what was said and there would be not an iota of confusion in my mind!

    I fully understand that people have different ideas about God and that there must be millions of people who feel a connection with Sri Raam just as I do with Mother Goddess…. I hope and wish that they experience the full joy of heaven as a result of their devotion in Raam (Raam literally means 'bliss' – Madhvacharya).

  22. cchuckc says:

    @knowTheEnemy
    //rather than any other character?//
    The question is both fallacious and is built on a wrong premise at the same time. The fallacy is if we replace Raam by, say Krishna, the question will still remain, why Krishna why not some other character etc etc. The basis is wrong because not everybody chose Raam, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Nimbarka Swami, Meera Bai, Vallabhacharya, Ramanuj, Madhavacharya all chose Krishna. In fact the list here is larger the Raam devotees (Ramanand, Kabir, Tulsi, Jalaram etc).

    //these authors see something special in Raam. What is it that they see? //
    I will first do a tauba before even suggesting what special these great souls might have seen in Raam. I am simply not able to decipher their minds. However I think this question is rhetorical. Just ask yourself do you see something special in Raam. If yes, how do you care what other's saw or didn't see!!! If no, then how do you care what other's saw or didn't see!!! See that the response is same for both Yes and No as long as you see something special in any character of your choice Muhammad included.

  23. knowTheEnemy says:

    ["Just imagine ,that if Sita was not kidnapped by Ravana ,and Rama was leading a happy life with Sita in that forest ,in that situation will Rama agreed to kill Bali?"]

    First, sorry for the late response! Now here is the response-

    If Rama did anything different in the scenario that you provided, then one could indeed question his intentions!  But there is something very important that you are missing-

    When we read Ramayan, what we are really reading is the authors' imagination. We cannot suspect the intentions of any of the story's characters…. we can only suspect the intentions of the author! We can say "Why did the author make his character do this?", and/or "What was the author thinking?", and/or "What are the author's intentions?" etc.

    We cannot suspect the intentions of characters in the story (unless if the author specifically created the story for that purpose)! The characters were created by the author and they only do what the author wanted them to do! So if the author said "Sugrive really thought his brother died fighting Mayavi" then that is what we have to accept! This is the case with all stories. You cannot suspect Santa Clause either. You cannot say "Santa may be a pedophile doing all his tricks just to get access to children". You cannot say so because whoever came up with the idea of Santa Clause, came up with a character who brings gifts to children! It would be ridiculous to question the intentions of Santa, don't you think?

    This is different from someone who actually lived. We CAN suspect Muhammad's intentions, or Gandhi's, or Obama's, or even Modi's!

  24. knowTheEnemy says:

    cchuckc,

    Why did so many people, including the learnt ones (as you named above) choose to see the Supreme Lord as Raam, rather than any other character? The fact that Puran authors even got Shiv to say "I meditate on Sri Raam", rather than on Krishna or even "I meditate on the formless one") shows that these authors see something special in Raam. What is it that they see?

  25. Shakila Khan says:

    I am an ex Muslim and now a Christian… There is no comparison between Mohammed and Jesus.. It's like comparing Ram with Ravan. 

  26. Supriya says:

    Christian man, Admit that Bible and other texts of Christianity are false. Let me tell you I do respect Jesus but don't believe inChristianity because this religion lacks in many fundamental principles like re-birth, Maya( illusion). This religion states every person is sinner but we don't believe. You Christians believe in concept of Devil's deception and stuff like that. Actually your past life wrong deeds and intents don't allow you to know the ultimate Truth( of Hinduism not that of Christianity).

    You called me sister, so now you are my brother.
    Brother,your ancestors were converted by Christian missionaries. know your original religion and that is Hinduism without prejudices and biases, you will get much more than your expectations( Remember, I am not encouraging you to convert to Hinduism). This is true that many western christians are converting to Hinduism because they have realized that Hinduism is the mother of all religions except this Islam( religion of braindead zombies and their prophet Satan called Muhammad).

    As far as resurrection of Jesus is concerned, thousands of Hindu sages were expert in resurrection and many other Siddhis(that Jesus didn't know ). I can provide you proofs if you demand .

    Jesus traveled India during 12 missing years of his childhood and practiced meditation under the guidance of Hindu sages. See BBC documentaries and many other proofs are available on internet.
    All the best !!!

  27. cchuckc says:

    /RV 3.30.4 …RV10.173.4, //

    The complete text of RV 3.30.4 is For, overthrowing what hath ne’er been shaken, thou goest forth alone destroying Vṛtras.
    For him who followeth thy Law the mountains and heaven and earth stand as if firmly stablished.
    You see that 'as if' in bold? It is not saying that these are unmoving but that Indra's wrath in destroying Vrtras is as strong as these are. Nothing more than a poetic allegory, the verse isn't describing any Geological or Geographical theory!! Similarly RV 10.173.4 talks about the firmness in servitude of a King. Does it mean that the King can't physically move? How foolish.

    Comapre this with Qur'an 50:7 And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)

  28. Supriya says:

    Christian Man, Reply me if ONLY Jesus spoke truth and thousands of Hindu sages lied. I can provide you more evidences which proves my arguments.

  29. Phoenix says:

    Christian Man

    You know the other competing theory to the Copenhagen Intrepetation of the collapse of the wave function is the manyworlds interpretation.In this scenario,the observer does not collapse the wavefunction.A two-part wavefunction starts out in a superposition,when we measure it,it simply gets bigger.In other words it branches out into more wavefunctions that remain in a state of superposition.Which one you observe or experience is completley random.
    Now,atheists usually prefer MWI to the CI, because it removes the observer from the equation and consciousness remains inert.But this ManyWorlds Interpreation has it's own magic,since those wavefunctions increase exponentially it creates infinite numbers of parrallel universes,where all possible outcomes exist.Yeah,there's a me in another universe that is president for example.
    Personally,I'd love to combine the two theories because both is appealing.But I doubt it's acceptable.Any way,what's your take on it?

  30. cchuckc says:

    @Shabeer,
    //#Which contradiction?
    1)‘Earth is flattened at the poles’ (Markandeya Purana 54.12) (flat earth)//
    Ha ha. You surely don't know your geography. Earth is indeed a little flat at the poles, that doesn't mean that its overall shape is not oblate spheroid!! Even a High School student knows that the Earth is a little flat at the poles and bulged around the equators because it is spinning. Doesn't it wonder you that on both the counts the Hindu texts got it right, that its shape is oblate spheroid and it is a little flat at the poles when it is unlikely they could have seen the Earth from outside space?

  31. shabeer says:

    ABOUT GOD:
    according to the religious theory god created all things that existed in this universes,so where is him? naturally beyond this universes.ex) x created a ball ,so x is inside/out side the ball? yes x is out side the ball,like that the creator of the universe must be out side this materialistic universes.
    here inside the universe we depend two things 1) time & 2) space
    that is every matters in this universe r time/space quantity …….they need space for their existence…….they r existing an interval of time,here all the human being (including adam,mosess,noha,krishna,rama,jesus,mohammed(s),budha,ect) r created human,they r not here now with us ,they existed a time interval in the past,they depend all things from almighty creator ,they r male/female,they r born with parents,they eaten,they drink,they sleep,they dead,before the jesus,before the krishna,before the muhammed(s),before the adam(a) universes existed here,sun rises here,who was created/controlled all theses things?  
    kul huvallahu ahad("He is Allâh, (the) One") there is no components with him,no gender ,we r created human we r created with components ,we r male/female,like combination of atom,molecule,etc & internal/external organs like eye,ear,hearth,brain,etc…we r here existing the mercy of almighty allha,bec's we r never/ever created an atom our own.    
        

  32. shabeer says:

    #None of the verses you copy pasted disprove my argument…………..
    1) U DELETE MY FIRST REPLAY TO U…..
    2)THE BASEMENT OF CHRISTIANITY ABOUT TRINITY IS
    "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of >>>>>>the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit<<<<<, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I will be with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28:19,20)
    THAT IS IF WE CONSIDERED THE  Father IS A FIGURATIVE TERM THEN  Abraham,Ephraim,ETC TOO SON OF GOD,SO THERE R LOT(NOT TWO/THREE) OF REFLECTION LIGHT IS POSSIBLE ACCORDING TO BIBLE THEORY:
    Did God have a Son? However, this claim reduces God to the lowly status of His creation. Creatures procreate by giving birth to mini versions of themselves that later grow up and reproduce copies of themselves, and so on and so forth. Dogs have puppies, cats have kittens, cows have calves, and men have children. So, what does God have – a baby God? Gods must give birth to Gods. But, for God to have a son, there has to exist another God besides Him. It is not befitting for God to have a son as such an act equates Him with His creation.

    Everything other than God comes into existence by the commandment of God, not that God becomes His creation or a part of God becomes creation. God does not become His creation nor does God give birth to creation. God is God, the Creator, and man and the contents of the universe are His creation. Although humans cannot grasp the concept of creation from nothing, that is exactly what God did and does. He alone creates from nothing, which 1s among the attributes that make Him unique and distinct from His creation. His act of creation is entirely different from that of human beings.

    This was the essence of the message of all the true messengers and prophets of God sent to humanity – Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad – as well as those sent throughout the world whose names are now unknown to humanity – may God’s peace and blessings be on them all. Today, this precise message can only be found in the Quran; the last scripture revealed by God to humankind. The message remains loud and clear only in the Quran because it has remained unchanged since the time of its revelation, one thousand four hundred years ago, until today.

  33. shabeer says:

    # The verse says He fixed the position of earth………..
    NO  
    Yajur Veda 32.6 By whom the heavens are strong and earth stands firmly[THAT IS EARTH FIXED NOT MOVE]…

    Rig Veda 3.30.4 …the heaven and earth and the mountains stands >>>>>>immoveable.<<<<<<<
    Rig Veda 10.173.4, Atharva Veda 6.88.1 >>>>Firm is the sky and firm the earth<<<<<<<<…

    THAT IS NO ROTATION ,THERE R TWO CONTRADICTION THE VERSES 
    1) EARTH IS NOT MOVE(BY SELF)
    2)EARTH IS NOT MOVE WITH UNIVERSE:

    The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model for the early development of the universe.[1] The key idea is that the >>>>universe is expanding. Consequently<<<<<, the universe was denser and hotter in the past. In particular, the Big Bang model suggests that at some moment all matter in the universe was contained in a single point, which is considered the beginning of the universe.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

  34. shabeer says:

    #Which contradiction?
    1)‘Earth is flattened at the poles’ (Markandeya Purana 54.12)  (flat earth)
    2)Atharva Veda 8.4.11 May he be swept away, himself and children; may all the three earths press him down beneath them. 
    WHERE IS THREE EARTH?
    3)Atharva Veda 11.3.33 … With Heaven and Earth as ears, with these I have eaten it…
    HOW MANY EARS? WHERE IS IT? 
    4)Atharva Veda 10.1.30 The Cow is Heaven, the Cow is Earth,
    WHAT THE NONSENSE WAS THAT?
    SO WE R ALL ABOVE THE COW?

  35. Ali Sina says:

    I don't agree that it is difficult to teach children about morality with teaching them about God. I was an atheist until recently and my morality was intact. In fact I was moral when I was a Muslim even though Islam is an immoral religion. Fore example according to Islam there is nothing wrong in beating wife, in marrying children, in abusing the rights of non-Muslims, etc. I found all these practices abhorrent even when a believer,

  36. Ali Sina says:

    And why these verses should boggle you? Father is of course a figurative term, just as my example of sun reflecting in mirror is figurative. None of the verses you copy pasted disprove my argument. In fact they validate it.

  37. cchuckc says:

    @Shabeer
    //Atharva Veda 19.32.9 He who first born>>>> fixed the earth in her position<<<, he who established heaven and air’s mid-region

    THAT MEAN EARTH NEVER MOVE ACCORDING TO VEDA//
    You are repeating your foolishness again and again shamelessly!!! The verse says He fixed the position of earth and not fixed and made Earth immovable!! Off course the Earth is fixed in its position, it is third in the Solar system (neither second nor fourth). It is fixed within the solar system doesn't move out of it, fixed to be within the Milky Way, doesn't move out of this particular galaxy. But how does it mean that the earth is not moving?
    Does Quran say that the Earth is arbitrarily positioned and doesn't move in any fixed manner?

  38. Supriya says:

    Christian Man ,I am expecting your response.

  39. Supriya says:

    Christian Man
    1) Pragyan Brahma means Consciousness is Brahman -Aitreya Upanishad 3.3 of Rig Veda
    2) Ayam Atma Brahma means This self(Atman) is Brahman – Mandukya Upanishad 1.2 of Atharva Veda
    3) Tat tvam Asi means That Thou Art – Chandogya Upanishad 6.8.7 of Sam veda
    4) Aham Brahmasmi means I am Brahman- Brihadaryanka Upanishad 1.4.10 of Yajur veda

    Brahman=Consciousness=God pervades everything,living and non living.

  40. Supriya says:

    Sakat
    I actually thought that you are this christian man because you believe in Buddhism,Darwinism though belong to Brahmin caste. And you have more knowledge of Christianity than me. I am sorry.

  41. Supriya says:

    Christian man
    You know nothing of Hinduism. You know only rituals and don't understand their actual meanings. You said that you are studying Philosophy. Let me help you in your endeavor of knowing Truth. Please visit the link – http://www.hinduismworldwide.in Quantum Physics has proved what Hindu rishis said thousands of years ago.

  42. Supriya says:

    Christian man
    You said that Hindus are converting to Christianity . Please visit following links.1) http://www.iskcon.org
    2) http://www.stephen-knapp.com

  43. cchuckc says:

    @Shabeer,
    //WHAT ABOUT OTHER CONCEPT OF EARTH? IS IT CONTRADICTION?//
    Which contradiction? Do you deny that Earth (A Geoid) is an oblate Spheroid (At least the best approximate)?

    //@ moon running in the water is a poetic use to picture the illusion that men have.
    THAT MEANS ALL THE VEDA IS TALKING JUST IMAGINATION /POETIC THOUGHT/ILLUSION,ETC YES?//
    Offcourse RV verses are full of poetic beauty. It is therefore one of the greatest composition ever scored. Poetic allegory is often used to describe a stuation, for example here.
    But that is not the main point here. You quoted that verse to show that RV is saying that Moon is running through water. You clearly, shamelessly lied as I have proved by quoting the full verse.

  44. shabeer says:

    DEAR CHRIST MAN:ONLY ONE QUESTION FOR U:
    Genealogy of Jesus claim by Mathews and Luke are different.
    Father of Joseph yakube born 24th generation of sons of Salomon (Mathew1:6 to 16)
    Father of Joseph heli 39th generation of sons of Nathan (Luke 3:23 to 31)
    There are two contradictions:
    1)24th generation (Mathew), 39th generation (Luke)
    2) Who was father of Joseph? Yakube (Mathew) OR heli (Luke) 
    What is the truth? What we believe? 
    From the gospel WE CAN UNDERSTAB Either Joseph has two fathers Or Luke or Mathew layer

  45. shabeer says:

    HOW MANY SON OF GOD IS THERE?
    Let us make a point here that we will again comeback to the aforementioned charge of Anthony Rogers to further see him en messed in his own argument. For now, let us provide him more verses from the Bible where Israelites have used the term Father for God and see whether they were literal or otherwise:
    1.      "Doubtless thou art our FATHER, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our FATHER, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting." (Isaiah 63:16, King James (1611) Bible)
    Anybody visiting the context of the above adduced verse from Isaiah would realize that the usage of the term "FATHER" is metaphorical and figurative than anything else. Nevertheless, we provide more verses:
    2.      "They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a FATHER to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." (Jeremiah 31:9, King James (1611) Bible)
    Here again we find that the usage of the term Father is precisely not literal but figurative. Till now we have not come across a single verse from the Bible which implies any literal import to the term FATHER which would substantiate Rogers claim to obviate Muslims from the appeal to John 17:3.
    Here are few more verses:
    3.      "I will be his FATHER, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:" (2 Samuel 7:14, King James (1611), Bible)

  46. shabeer says:

    ONE EXAMPLE FOR PEACE ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY:
    ISLAM PROHIBIT KILLING WOMEN/CHILDREN:
    Malik :: Book 21 : Hadith 21.3.10 
    Do not kill women or children or an aged, weak person,Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees.Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, 
    Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 52 :: Hadith 257,58
    Narrated Ibn 'Umar: 
    During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children. 
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 58 :: Hadith 232 
    Narrated 'Ubada bin As-Samit: 
    ……….you will not worship anything besides Allah, will not steal, will not commit illegal sexual intercourse will not kill your children, will not utter; slander, invented by yourself, and will not disobey me if I order you to do something good. 
    BIBLE GOD ORDERED KILLING CHILDREN/WOMEN:
    Hosea 13:16
    Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. (NRSV)
     1 Samuel 15:3,8
    Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)
    Deuteronomy 3:3-6
    So the LORD our God delivered Og also, king of Bashan, with all his people into our hand, and we smote them until no survivor was left. We captured all his cities at that time; there was not a city which we did not take from them: sixty cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities fortified with high walls, gates and bars, besides a great many unwalled towns. We utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women and children of every city. (NASB)

  47. shabeer says:

    @While slaughtering and killing Jews robbing their wealth, capturing and raping Jewish women and girls. 
    – While looting caravans in the desert …………
    Prohibit killing with unjust:
    3:21. Verily! Those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, announce to them a painful torment.
    5: 32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.
    EARNING MONEY THROUGH ILLEGAL WAY PROHIBITED:
    2: 188. And eat up not one another's property unjustly (in any illegal way e.g. stealing, robbing, deceiving, etc.), nor give bribery to the rulers (judges before presenting your cases) that you may knowingly eat up a part of the property of others sinfully.
    4: 29. O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allâh is Most Merciful to you.
    Slave rape prohibited:
    Malik :: Book 36 : Hadith 36.16.14 
    Malik :: Book 41 : Hadith 41.2.13
    Slave prostitution prohibited:
    24:33. and let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah enriches them of His Bounty. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you know that they are good and trustworthy. And give them something yourselves out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. And force not your maids to prostitution, if they desire chastity, in order that you may make a gain in the (perishable) goods of this worldly life. But if anyone compels them (to prostitution), then after such compulsion, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to those women, i.e. He will forgive them because they have been forced to do this evil action unwillingly).
    Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 63 :: Hadith 260 
     

  48. cchuckc says:

    @Shabeer,
    //Shape of Earth is like an Oblate Spheroid’.[Rig Veda]//
    And do you think that is wrong?
    Quoting from wiki: Closer approximations range from modelling the shape of the surface of the entire Earth as an oblate spheroid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_the_Earth

    //and Rig Veda 1.105.1 Within the waters runs the Moon //

    You have half quoted!! Here's the full verse : WITHIN the waters runs the Moon, he with the beauteous wings in heaven. Ye lightnings with your golden wheels, men find not your abiding-place. Mark this my woe, ye Earth and Heaven.
    Clearly the moon is stationed in the heaven, see the part in bold. It is only saying that human beings don't look for the "lightnings of the God's golden wheels" in its abiding place and that is the source of the woe
    (Mark this my woe, ye Earth and Heaven). The reference to the moon running in the water is a poetic use to picturise the illusion that men have.
    It is difficult for you to understand the figure of speech and poetry, and you even half quoted the verse.

  49. shabeer says:

    If we believe the above verses, we must answer the following questions.
    Then what the purpose we are created?, what are the purpose of Incarnation? What is the difference between from fish to kaki (Incarnation of god) from us?
    Support to pray to sun:

    “Oh! thejomaya! You create ever existed sun; you give the light for human, oh! Jothirmaya! You are the light of human. We declare you are superior, please give the peace, please give me the power” (Rig-Veda 10:150:5)

    Like (Rig-Veda 10:70:17-10:7:4, 28 – 7:15:2- 4:1:9-31:7- 3:5:1-10:37:4)

    The most of the above verses introduce Agni become a god, but we can saw Agni the mediator between human and divan’s from Rig-Veda 10:7:4

    Its came from the fear of fire (Rig-Veda 2:4:15-18)

    2)Sun and Light

    Veda explains the power and characteristics of sun and light (Rig-Veda 1:92:14)

    Promote pray to sun:

    “Hai! Sun! You remove the dark and spread the light; from your light you remove our starvation, selfishness, knowledge, nightmare and all pain,” (Rig-Veda 10:37:4)

    3)soma(alcohol)

    Veda introduce soma the powerful alcohol (Rig-Veda 8:48 36.)

    Detail description about after effect of soma (shukla yejur veda shabada brahmana 7:3:2:1-3)

    Veda describes how to prepare powerful soma (shukla yejur veda shabada brahmana 12:8:2:8-10)

    Indran drinks alcohol, effect of alcohol he killed the innocent vrithyan (Rig-Veda 2:15:4)

    But we can saw the same Veda promoting soma as a god:

    “Soma raja and varuna, all the karma belong to you. Your glory was powerful and expandable .soma like mithra and sun “(Rig-Veda 1:91:17.)

    “King soma! God, please protect us from the self desire, you and like your are eternal “ 
    “Soma common and receive our puja and yoga, please give us better life “   

    “Soma! Increase our economic status, relief our pain, give us the whelth, make us good people” (Rig-Veda 1:91)

    TELL ME WHO R CONTRADICT TO EACH OTHER?

  50. shabeer says:

    SORRY ACTUALLY IT IS
    Shape of Earth is like an Oblate Spheroid’.
    [Rig Veda]
     
    "Cakracasah parinaham prthivya"
    [Rig veda 1.33.8]
     
    Atharva Veda 18.4.89 Within the waters runs the Moon …
    Same is repeated in Yajur Veda 33.90 and Rig Veda 1.105.1
    The Sanskrit word used here are
    चन्द्रमा [Chandrama] = Moon
    अप् [Ap] = Water
    अन्तरा [Antaraa] = On the way, Runs

  51. shabeer says:

    SAKAT:
    IF I POSTED THE ERROR ,THEN WHY R U BRING THE EXACT VERSES HERE ,TO PROVE U'R DIVINITY?
    BRING THE SANSKRIT VERSES THE NUMBER I MENTIONED THE ABOVE ,THEN PROVE ,ITS NOT LIKE THAT …………

    SANSKRIT VERSES HERE THE ABOVE POST( IMAGE FILES ) http://truthabouthinduism.wordpress.com/2014/05/1http://truthabouthinduism.wordpress.com/2014/05/1

  52. Demsci says:

    Addendum; If it is necessary keep the pretence of Islam, but do give children that information of history and biology and do foster their independent thinking, keep asking THEIR opinions, even if you do retain order.

  53. Demsci says:

    OK, I did not know this. very Interesting. And i like to humbly admit I cannot answer you fully, only a little bit.

    Stay in English and communicate with and learn from the whole world. Hope that the state and the police will keep you relatively free while you develop.

    I have a progress belief and Kenya I hear looks rather good. On a road to be as rich as we in Holland are now. And THAT is a key good development, IMO. (just take care not to get overweight).

    About the children; well, I. Give them high attention and listen to their thoughts and opinions. I don't mean to brag but Dutch children are the happiest in the world according to the UN. Precisely because we LISTEN to our children and validate their opinion, even at school. Don't get me wrong (as you say): order must be maintained, but we foster independent thinking in our children from a young age I daresay.

    And more: Whenever you can get away with it, teach them history, biology, and if you are in agreement, the HOPE of progress. Because, man, is mankind on a roll! I. War and violence are diminishing worldwide (If you want I'll explain) and II. If anything technological progress is quickening! You already have the phones, soon you'll have the drones!

  54. Christian man says:

    Ali Sina said Not only Muhammad did not understand the concept of Trinity, he was also confused about the belief itself. He thought the three persons representing the Trinity are Jesus, Mary and God. That is because his knowledge of the Bible was second hand. Being an illiterate man he had not read the Bible himself.

    And you Abeid Salim you can keep your shirk nonsense to your self and tell us this important thing 
    Are we educated people really supposed to believe Mohammed received these false revelations concerning the trinity 
    – While slaughtering and killing Jews robbing their wealth, capturing and raping Jewish women and girls.
    – While looting caravans in the desert
    -while having sex with his captured women war booty and sex with the little girl Ayesha.
    -On Ayesha's lap while fondling her during foreplay 
    Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur'an while I was in menses. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296)
    Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet used to recite the Quran with his head in my lap while I used to be in my periods (having menses). (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 639) The Quran expressly prohibits a man from approaching his wife during her monthly cycle:

    Matthew 7:15-20 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Is this what a prophet of God does murder, slaughter, rape rob rape and have sex and get revelations about the trinity?
    Mohammed was an evil demon possesed false prophet.

  55. Abeid Salim says:

    Well am from Kenya  and i live in the coastal part which is Mombasa and has a large asian muslim population even though 80% of our country is christian.Believe it or not no atheist exist here and the word atheism is unknown in this part and almost many people dont even know what that word means,so you can see what you are up against as many africans are deeply religious to the point of being brainwashed especially christians who are being duped to donate money for miracles in churches!!!

    You havent answered my second point on how to teach people especially children without having god as the moral authority as its too difficult without the omnipresence god!!!

  56. Christian man says:

    I am just repying to the arguments put forward brother 

  57. pran says:

    Christian Man,
    this place is only to show the darkness in the heart of some type of people who beleive in terrorism. Don't serve your gospel here.  

  58. Christian man says:

    You said
    Supriya
    "Hinduism says "Aham Brahmasmi" It means I am God." 
    How then can you explain to me do Hindus bring out this divinity that is inherent within you as you just stated, can you give me some examples of passages that bring out the power of God within a human being.

    The Bible states that we are part of God the trinity with the holy Spirit that comes in us and we can do all things through this spirit and through Christ we get power from there power to heal sickness etc do miracles.
    Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ[a] who strengthens me.

    You said
    We need not to believe in false and prejudiced prophet who says I am ONLY son of God 
    Then what do you believe in false delusions and illusions like Maya and other such philosophy that men have no evidence or healing power of God or miracle power. 

    Jesus is the only son of god the prophet and messiah who did miracles and healed the sick and was ressurrected from the dead and rose again and this is not a false delusion or illusion that you believe like Maya that nothing exists in this world and the world is a illusion and a delusion.

  59. Christian man says:

    Supriya
    So far you have not dared to reply back to even ONE of my numerous arguments i have put forward.  I dont think you are intelligent enough to to respond to my arguments and evidence.  It speaks volumes of your knowledge and intelligence that you consider believing in Gods with human bodies and elephant and monkey heads and ten hands.  But refuse to believe in Jesus the  Christ who was resurrected and raised from the dead.  Dont ever compare your fake false Gods to Jesus. 
    There are Western Scientists who are also Christian and who convert to Christianity, please dont get carried away by hindu propaganda.
     What you should be more concerned is in this country India is filled with smart intelligent educated people they are converting in large numbers to Christianity after hearing the message from God TV and the evangelical channels, i am glad to see this happen.  It is even predicted in the bible that this will happen
    Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations.  Through the internet and TV the gospel is being preached to the whole world.
    There is evidence for this too that's why your fanatic hindu breathern become so desperate and perturbed that they attack Christians and try to stop conversions.  We are only one to two percent against you 90 percent why so much desperation for such a small number because more and more are coming to Christ this is the evidence.

    Even i have studied hindu philosophy unlike you who don't know anything about Christian and just comment rubbish.  No one will every take you seriously if you dont know anything.

    If you Keep believing in Maya that this world is an illusion and because Hinduism is itself a false delusion and illusion that was made  up in the minds of foolish men.  Your soul will never get moksha from karma because you believe in such false delusions and illusions that nothing is real and nothing exists.  Your hinduism is dead, Christ is alive had conquered death and evil by his ressurrection and gave eternal life.  JESUS is the ONLY way to the Truth. the rest is all false delusions and illusions even you have said it your self that your beliefs are Maya and illusion.  Just Google Maya and it means Illusion and delusion not real.  So why are you believing in such delusions.

    As for false prophets and false Gods Hinduism is filled with them half animal demon liar Gods which are myths and don't exist.  There is archeological evidence to back up Bible stories.

    A colleague of mine a Hindu was just like you doubted the gospel after attending Bible study he converted to the truth.  We are growing in number sister i do hope you see the light too it's just a matter of time.  
    It is predicted in the Bible that this will happen it's happening as we speak.
    Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
    Someday you too when you see the Truth will accept the gospel John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 

  60. Sakat says:

    @Supriya
    This Cristian man is true to his statement ,he is not; what you are believing him so.

  61. Supriya says:

    Christian Man ,please stop pretending.I know you are Brahmin and you are doing all this only to refute me. Let me tell you that it's not going to work.

  62. Supriya says:

    Christian Man
    Hinduism says "Aham Brahmasmi" It means I am God. We need not to believe in false and prejudiced prophet who says I am ONLY son of God and every other creature is sinner. Make search you will find that western scientists , physicists, artists, Neurologist etc. are converting to Hinduism. Dr. Sina is philosophically Hindu.Your God Jesus failed to answer my questions and this is the reason to consider him liar who doesn't know Moksha and Mithya and Maya. Read Dr. Sina's blog He said he doesn't believe in dogmatic Christianity.

  63. Christian man says:

    i do not believe in Ganesha and all false animal gods and neither am i a Hindu priest.

    I was born Christian I am a researcher i study Artificial Intelligence i am a programmer I study philosophy and gnosticism and Buddhism too and someday i wanna do Phd and also preach on Christianity god willing.
     Quantum mechanics and science has everything to do with Christianity you dont know what research is going on.

    please Google Resurrection quantum physics and study and please educate yourself on these matters.

  64. Christian man says:

    You keep believing in this false dogma that nothing exists in this world reality is just a simulation and it's ok to not live a full live things it's OK to sin because nothing is real but this is a of the Devil it is evil.  This is what the Devil and evil people want you to believe in that you are powerless you have no power.  And this will be your block in life.
    But we who read the bible know better we have power through God's image and Christ.

    This is what you want to believe out of your own desires and mock and scoff at the Christian faith.  It is even predicted in the bible that this will happen let me show you the verse.

    2 Peter 3:3 Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.

  65. Christian man says:

    I know many hindus are turning to Christ too nowdays as they have started preaching the gospel to even me.  that's why they are trying desperately to stop us by stopping conversions.

    "I still don't call him enlightened because he didn't know the re-birth principle"
    You dont believe Jesus was Englightened, but you believe in your monkey gods and animal gods  and demon like gods who didnt care for you or give their lives up for you or suffer and sacrifice themselves shed their blood for you.
    Just watch passion of the Christ to see the sacrifice Jesus made for us.

    Rebirth is false doctrine you will not be born as an animal and have multiple births.  Because insects and animals dont have the Image of God they are lower than us cannot hold human souls or human consciousness.  Pls dont believe in this false doctrine this doctrine was imagined by foolish evil men to keep you in bondage and control u and make u under their power to control your mind.  Believe in eternal life through Jesus Christ.

    "why teenaged girls and boys are suffering from incurable diseases? why some people are rich by birth and some people are poor by birth ? why some people are handicapped by birth?"
    Everyone suffers every human being suffers they suffer you suffer i suffer somtimes in life so that one day they when they will be cured and delivered they will see the glory of our God through Jesus Christ his son.

    Even the rich and poor both handicapped healed and well come to Christ i have seen this that's why i tell you.
    Hindus believe in predestination in karma once your afflicted you remain like that the whole of your life you cannot be healed through your God's power thats what you believe in.
    But we Christians believe that healing in deliverance, in grace in power it will come through Christ there is a way out not pre-destiny, you shud understand this.  It's not rubbish that's why many Hindus are turning to Christ, you can see the evidence.  

  66. knowTheEnemy says:

    I don't think there is any one explanation of enlightenment, but the one that makes sense to me is-
    – That the person has figured out who s/he really is, that is, s/he is in touch with his/her self, and
    – That s/he has figured out his relationship with his/her personal God and his/her relationship with the manifest world,
    – AND most importantly, s/he is at peace with whatever s/he has realized.

    If these three conditions are met, then the person has achieved enlightenment (See important note below). Having achieved enlightenment does not mean that the person no longer makes effort to learn more, to realize new things, and to improve his/her understanding of previously realized things. But it does mean that the person has already entered the enlightenment zone. (I do not believe there is any such thing as "more enlightened than before" or "less enlightened than others". Enlightened is enlightened!)

    *Important note: I have a strong feeling that meditation can reveal more about enlightenment. However, I have never meditated. Someone who has meditated may give a better (or different) answer than what I have posted here. I myself may understand 'enlightenment' differently once I have experience with meditation. What I have written above is what I have realized so far regarding enlightenment.

  67. Supriya says:

    Christian man, I suggest you to see Hollywood movie " Matrix" This movie shows the essence of Hinduism.

  68. Christian man says:

    "Christian Man ,tell me why did Jesus not tell his followers that everyone is eternal soul ?"
    You know nothing of the Bible or Christianity everywhere in the Bible Jesus Speaks of Immortality  and Eternal Everlasting Life we Christians have eternal souls death has no power over us you just have to read the bible and see this.
    Unlike hindus who believe we will be reborn as insects or animals which is false and nirvana multiple births is also false.  That's why you wrongly worship animals and stones and nature which has no power because the real power is within you within your soul and holy spirit.  You dont want to use this power.

    Here is the proof of some of the Bible passages that speak of immortal life in Jesus Christ.
    seek immortality (Romans:2:5-7).[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day  of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:[7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 
    (1 Corinthians:15:51-55)Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised  incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    [53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, 

    Only God and His Son possess immortality (1 Timothy:6:12-16) [12] Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
    [13] I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; [14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our LORD Jesus Christ [15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;[16] Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. and that eternal life is a "gift" from God 
    (Romans:6:23)For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The most powerful words come from Jesus Himself: "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (John:6:40).And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

  69. Supriya says:

    Christian Man ,tell me why did Jesus not tell his followers that everyone is eternal soul ?
    Read Yog- Vashishtha and Ashtavakra Gita to know your religion? Visit the Ashram which is outside of your city in Karnataka.( I suggested you because you have suggested me)

  70. Supriya says:

    Christian man
    I know your real surname. I was right to say that you are Protestant Hindu. You know Christianity very well(actually you blended Christianity with Hinduism) but not your own religion.
    OK let me accept that Jesus knew the Karma principle. I still don't call him enlightened because he didn't know the re-birth principle. if Jesus ONLY spoke truth(and Hindu rishis lied) then answer my questions : why teenaged girls and boys are suffering from incurable diseases? why some people are rich by birth and some people are poor by birth ? why some people are handicapped by birth?

  71. JoeB1 says:

    Rather than see suffering as necessary, can we just say we need the courage, strength and determination to achieve our goals.

    Enlightmentment is not a end point.. do you think we just reach enlightment and then what? there is nothing else? …  Surely enlightment is a process and a journey where we experiencing a hatching into a world of higher and higher consciousiness.

    Jesus, for me, brings Love into the world and teaches us that the path to God is Loving God and Loving each other..  The parables of Jesus teach us what "Love" is ..

    peace

  72. Christian man says:

    The Sikh Gurus who were slaughtered for their faith by the Muslims were men of conviction who would rather die than convert to Islam.  I think that's what made them saints in the eyes of Sikhs who stood up for their beliefs

  73. Christian man says:

    you said 
    why did he say that God is outside of the creation? why was he ignorant of the fact that the whole universe is manifestation of God ?
    Jesus was not ignorant of the fact that the whole universe was a manifestation of God.
    God is the creator of all things all things existed and (Genesis 1:1). “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” 
    John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
    …2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
    John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
    Hinduism is pantheistic, not theistic. The doctrine that God created the world out of nothing rather than emanating it out. If God is in everything, God is in both good and evil. Individuality is illusion according to Eastern mysticism. Not that we're not real, but that we are not distinct from God or each other. Since individuality is illusion, so is free will. If free will is illusion, so is sin. And if sin is illusion, so is hell. Perhaps the strongest attraction of Hinduism is in their denial of sin, guilt and hell. 
    Christ teaches the power is WITHIN US, WE HAVE THE POWER TO SIN or DESTROY ourselves or to make Miracles in our life WE have the POWER WITHIN US, THE KINGDOM OF GOD POWER OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU.
    Luke 17:21: “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”

    Unlike Hinduism which teaches power it is outside of you and we cannot do anything because there is no personal relationship with God in Hinduism, no connection with God, neither does Hinduism teach we are united with god through the holy spirit and Christ, and we have the Image of God within us that gives us the power, we are part of God and God is part of us.

  74. Christian man says:

    you said "Tell me why didn't he talk about karma and re-birth & eternity of soul ? 
    you dont have any knowledge of Christianity or the Bible Jesus spoke of eternal life and being resurrected from the dead and living forever your Hindu gods did not because they did not have any understanding or englightenment.

    About Karma and rebirth Jesus talked about a lot about Karma and sowing what you reap 

    Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.

    Hebrews 9:27 states, “Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment…” This Bible verse makes clear two important points  which, for Christians, negate the possibility of reincarnation and karma. First, it states that we are “destined to die once,” meaning that humans are only born once and only die once.

    Rebirth according to hinduism is false we dont become insects or animals this is a false delusion.

    The Bible talks a lot about reaping and sowing. Job 4:8 says, “As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.” Psalm 126:5 says, “Those who sow in tears will reap with songs of joy.” Luke 12:24 says, “Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!” In each of these instances, as well as all the other references to reaping and sowing, the act of receiving the rewards of your actions takes place in this life, not in some future life. It is a 
    present-day activity, and the references make it clear that the fruit you reap will be commensurate with the actions you have performed. In addition, the sowing you perform in this life will affect your reward or punishment in the afterlife. 
    This afterlife is not a rebirth or a reincarnation into another body here on earth. It is either eternal suffering in hell (Matthew 25:46) or eternal life in heaven with Jesus, who died so that we might live eternally with Him. This should be the focus of our life on earth. The apostle Paul wrote in Galatians 6:8-9, “The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

    Finally, we must always remember that it was Jesus whose death on the cross resulted in the reaping of eternal life for us, and that it is faith in 

    Jesus that gives us this eternal life. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from 

    yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.”

    Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/karma.html#ixzz32KCPX

  75. JoeB1 says:

    Dear Ali Sina,

               re: "Your soul, your mind and your body are different dimensions of you. "

               Totally agree with your thinking..    It seems we are an intersection of several dimenisions that manifest as humans.. The intersection of  "Life" force, Consciousiness,  electromagnitic,  gravitation etc

    The struggle for us humans as we evolve is to find the words and metphors to communicate the wisdom of the greats of the past like Jesus,  Zorostra, Buddha, etc

    As we step into the future hopefully humanity can growup and start thinking for itself and discover new wisedom..  At present those who stick their heads into books written in the past, are infact walking into the future looking backwards and have no chance of seeing what is before them.

  76. Christian man says:

    i am an Indian Christian not a high caste of Hinduism i am a Protestant Christian
    Now yes Jesus attained the highest form of enlightenment even higher than the Buddha and everyone else.  His faith and beliefs were tested on the cross and he suffered died and was the first man to be resurrected by God the father in heaven because of this highest form of Englightenment..
    You said "By the way I don't think that enlightenment can be attained by suffering and feeling pain"

    Englightenment is not just sitting comfortably under a tree or sitting in an cool AC room and getting "Englightenment"
    you have to work your way through englightenment through suffering and pain.

    -Even mountain climbers who climbers who climb mount Everest take the effort pain and suffering of climbing the mountain and when they reach the top  they have enjoyment passion accomplishment and satisfaction. Why dont they just take a helicopter and boast that they have climbed the mountain why do they go through the trouble of climbing that high mountain.
    -Why do Athletes train practice put effort suffer and sweat it out so much to win the Olympics Gold first prize, why dont they just take performance enhancing drugs to get to first place, why are drugs banned and shunned by Sports all over.
    – Why doesn't a student just take the textbooks and copy everything during final exams, and why bother studying understanding memorizing the whole year and putting time effort struggle and pain in studies.

    It's because enlightenment knowledge success and fulfillment and can only be attained by suffering and feeling pain and struggle.

    Please see the movie Passion of the Christ if you have any doubts of Jesus Christ's Enlightenment the highest form of enlightenment and ressurection from the dead.

  77. Supriya says:

    knowTheEnemy
    What do you mean by enlightenment ?

  78. Supriya says:

    Christian man
    I am really impressed by your smartness.I have realized very long that you are a science student and know philosophy very well. You presented yourself very smartly so that no one can identify you. But you can't deceive me.I know you are Hindu( elite class of priest) Protestant and not Christian Protestant. You like to follow revolutionary views of saint of my religion.
    You know that Christianity has nothing to do with Quantum Mechanics and therefore you said that you are Christian Protestant and not catholic. You blended trinity with Quantum mechanics very smartly.
    You know the meaning of Ganesha( because you are not only a priest and but also science student.)

    I stick to my point that you are Protestant Hindu.

  79. Sakat says:

    @Supriya
    The Divine Mother assumes infinite names and forms,each of which expresses a different facet of Her being. The deity Ganesha ,Her first-born son, is a case in point. Ganesha is a compound of the Sanskrit words “gana” and “Isha” . Gana means “individual beings, independent units, segments of light, discrete bodies of Divinity, unique forces,emanations of Divine Light ,attendants of the main deity ,”Isha means “one who is capable of doing what he wishes,capable of refraining from what he does not wish to do,and capable of undoing that which has already been done”_in short, the Almighty Lord.
    Gansesha dwells eternally in the womb of the Divine Mother. He is the “first born one”,emerging from Her before any of the functioning forces of the universe emerge. In their manifest form all these forces center around this primordial force _Ganesha is the locus for all that exists.He establishes law and brings order out of chaos ,causing the universal forces to function coherently.
    .
    The first step in bringing order out of chaos is the emergence of the law of gravity, and Ganesha is the presiding deity of that law. At his behest the force of gravity captures all the matter and energy emitted by primordial Divine Force and gives direction to its outward movement. Ganesha himself is the center of all gravitational energy,and as such he supervises all activities, from the microcosm to the macrocosm_ everything in the universe is held by the invisible strings of gravity, While gravity itself is held by Ganesha. The forces of creation, maintenance, and destruction are held in harmonious balance by his will, and that is why this firstborn child of the Divine Mother is called “Ganesha” the lord of all entities and functioning forces of the universe.
    If you are satisfied with this explanation Ok, if you want further stretching I will do that when I do find little time to spend on. (note: understanding the concept of Ganesha is a complex issue )

  80. cchuckc says:

    @Shabeer
    // (Rig VedaXXX. IV.V) //
    You are back with your moronic comments. Rig Ved doesn't have XXX (30) books or chapters, only 10 mandals. That proves what an ignoramus porcosaurus you are.

  81. knowTheEnemy says:

    What is your opinion regarding the Sikh Gurus, who did exist, did sacrifice themselves for humanity, and suffered pains that only true Muslims are capable of inflicting??

  82. Supriya says:

    slaveofprophet
    I just want to thank you. Your all posts are like the punches of comedian Kapil Sharma.( host of show called Comedy Nights with Kapil Sharma)

  83. Christian man says:

    Supriya i am an Indian Christian not high caste of Hinduism i was born Catholic but now i am Protestant Christian I am a programmer and studied Physics and computer applications  and philosophy 
    now 
    I will reply to your second argument tomorrow as it will be long and i am working now. 
    now in one of your arguments you said 
    //Hinduism doesn't believe in Creationism and Adam-Eve-Apple story. Hinduism advocates Manifestation of Brahman or God. Thousands of years ago Hindu ascetics said that everything is conscious,intelligent and unborn vibration/ wave-function( today Quantum Physicists come to the same conclusion) Hinduism says that Brahman=consciousness pervades everything , living and nonliving. Hindu ascetics received this wisdom through intuition during meditation.

    your argument Hindu beliefs and assumption is flawed and totally wrong 
    NOTHING is is conscious,intelligent and unborn vibration nothing exists without God or us human beings because we are the OBSERVER and by observing we bring it into creation.  WE are the conciousness.
    In hinduism you worship nature stones matter and believe they are alive conciousness and have power and believe nature outside external has power, it is wrong it is all dead you have the power within you through the image of God.

    We humans are like Gods we are strong because through Christ and Holy Sprit God is within us through our image of God within us.
     Because in Christianity we/man are created by God we have God's image and likeness in us we are one united with God through the holy sprit, trinity father son and holy sprit.  We are Gods Image God is in us and we are in God.
    according to Quantum Mechanics 
    Everything in the world matter is in a state of probability possibility a state of vibration or possiblities the wavefunction either existing or non existing when ONLY the observer (man with the with the image of God) only OBSERVES the wavefunction he brings it into existance he collapses the wavefunction ie the electron's postion is revealed it's reality exists only when OBSERVED by someone otherwise is just a superposition of states, a probability somewhere non existing.

  84. Supriya says:

    Demsci, Thank you very much.

  85. Supriya says:

    Shabeer , the idiotic muslim
    Monotheism means worshiping single God. According to Islam God is the one who creates everything. This means God is creator. Therefore I said that you accepted the fact that Hindus worship single God or Creator and actually credit goes to you because you brought sholkas of vedas. Here you contradicted muhammad because he said that only muslims are monotheists.

    Bring corresponding Sanskrit shlokas.

  86. Supriya says:

    Christian man
    First of all let me tell you that I know you are an Indian and belong to high caste of Hinduism. You can't fool me.

    OK, let me accept right now that Jesus attained enlightenment . Tell me why didn't he talk about karma and re-birth & eternity of soul ? why did he say that God is outside of the creation? why was he ignorant of the fact that the whole universe is manifestation of God ?
    You talked about the deity of Ganesha. I 'll tell you after some days because I also don't know ( Because I am not Hindu but Jain). But I can firmly say that their must be something mysterious about Ganesha.
    By the way I don't think that enlightenment can be attained by suffering and feeling pain.

    Now a days western Christians are converting to Hinduism. e.g. Julia Roberts, Oscar Award winning actress. Her Guru is Neem Karoli baba.( and her parents are Catholic Christians, Jesus worshiper) and many others.

  87. Tnkuk says:

            Yes he is Genius in laying and i'm convainced  i know what you don't know dear Mr and i HAVE defeated him and he is Ignoring me because he can't proof me wrong okay your "SiNa" !!!

          and did you tried what does a was mean No you live in a Coton soft contry Okay you didn't try the war this is in 1st in Second you Must to be intellegent and not use ur Honor because in a war if you attacked the enemy which is your 5 double of power you will be a fool if you attacked him without your brain + he participed in wars Okay and you don't know him Okay + i'm sure that You and You Ginius layer will be together in the Judgment day and you can worry together too and do Hugs because it's more funny sertenly when you see the romantic Hell wich will burn you All togather ….oooooowh what a  touching thing :')  and don't worry i will say Hi :p

  88. Allah says:

    @peace Islam scholar ·
    He is a genius (Mr Ali Sina),he knew how to screw Islamo-phobes. When you cant defeat him in argument ,you want him to come open .You must have some shame.You want to kill a kind and intelligent person ,why can't you debate him here in his site .Mohammed was the inventor of the term ,"Coward" ,because he never went in open war with his opponent .Either he attacked them during night,when they were in deep sleep or introduced truce on the verge of defeat and when they turned their back ,his people stabbed his enemies ,BEHIND THE BACK. The word Coward in English is equivalent to "Taquiya" in Arab. Ha ha ha …………….;)

  89. Tnkuk says:

        Because he is a coward of Umiliation Dear friend but don't worry "Fira'awn" was too like this but he was umiliated don't worry Ali too ^^

  90. pran says:

    WHAT THE HELL, SHABEER, WHY CAN'T U WRITE IN SMALL LETTERS. HOW MAY TIMES THE FOLLOWERS OF THIS SITE TOLD YOU.

  91. slaveofprophet says:

    @Shabeer/Saket/Supriya/Ali Sina
    Please read these eye opening verses of Veda
    As per Veda book Rigveda verse 23/2/5  says '" Oh man,  Why are you worshiping false God instead of Allah. Do not you know prophet Muhammad will be last messenger".

    Atharvaveda 5/6 says "' There will a be last prophet who will born in desert land''. He will be final messenger of Allah.

     

  92. Christian man says:

    Jesus attained englightenment by suffering and getting salvation and attained the highest form of englightenment he was God taken the flesh of human form like man to experience what man would experience and he was ressurected from the dead, and if we follow him we shall have eternal life too
     unlike your half animal hindu gods who dont exist and didnt sacrifice themselves for humanity or feel any pain like we do.

  93. Sakat says:

    @Shabeer
    Oh poor fellow first bring corresponding SLOKAS in Sanskrit ,and let me assure you i will explain them to your throat ,till then don't paste here the western (English) distorted gibberish.Even you or Gripith take 1000 years of life to understand VEDAS with their central meaning .They are there since last 10,000 years or so ,your Quran will vanish within next 30 years without any trace ,while Vedas will remain even after next 1,00,000 years without any amendments. In one sentence ,i would say to understand the meaning of VEDAS you have to become them.

  94. peace Islam scholar says:

    Why dont Ali Sina come to a Muslim country and debate with us on Live TV face to face in person with freedom of speech, and peace and respect.
    Is all this Internet things and websites more important to keep writing on the internet and showing off boasting?

  95. shabeer says:

    SUPRIYA THEN WHY U'R RISHIS FAILED THE CONCEPT OF FOLLOWING THINGS:
    Shape of Earth is like an Oblate Spheroid. (Rig VedaXXX. IV.V)
    ‘Earth is flattened at the poles’ (Markandeya Purana 54.12) 
    Atharva Veda 19.32.9 He who first born fixed the earth in her position, he who established heaven and air’s mid-region
    Atharva Veda 8.4.11 May he be swept away, himself and children; may all the three earths press him down beneath them.
    Atharva Veda 11.3.33 … With Heaven and Earth as ears, with these I have eaten it…
    Atharva Veda 10.1.30 The Cow is Heaven, the Cow is Earth, 
    Rig Veda 9.72.7 7 Earth’s central point, sustainer of the mighty heavens, distilled into the stream…
    Rig Veda 7.83.3 The ends of the earth are beheld laid waste…

  96. shabeer says:

    THE HIDAYA ITS BELONGS TO MY CREATOR ,A MASS CONVERSION GOING ON THE EAST & WEST,EVEN LOT OF NON MUSLIM MEMBERS(CHRIST/JEW/HINDU/BUDH,COMMUNIST/CAPITALIST/FEMINIST,ETC)CRITICIZING AS MUCH AS THEY CAN POSSIBLE ,IS ANYTHING HAPPEND AFTER 9/11 ………THE CONVERSION THREE TIMES INCREASED (ITS NOT MY PERSONAL COMMENTS ,ITS AGREED THE MEDIA /SCHOLARS)
    HERE I AM/ MOST OF MUSLIM R  NOT WORRY ABOUT THE EXISTENCE/PROTECTION OF ISLAM,BEC'S PROTECTION OF QURAN/ISLAM TAKEN ITS CREATOR AL MIGHTY GOD,WE R NOT WORRY ABOUT,ACTUALLY WE R WORRY ABOUT THE NON MUSLIM,PER POST THEY R GOING TO THE DEEPEST LEVEL OF HELL 

  97. shabeer says:

    SUPRIYA : FOOLISH GIRL ( IAM NOT ACCEPT   Hindus are monotheists.)
    WHAT THE MEANING OF monotheism?
    PRAYING/WORSHIPING GOD ALONE THAT THE MEANING  monotheism:
    PLZ READ MY POST AGAIN ,IT NOT SAYS ABOUT THE monotheism ,ITS SAYS ABOUT THE >>>CREATION OF MATTERS/CREATION OF GOD<<<<<
    CAN U UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "WORSHIP" & "CREATION "?
    U'R CLAIM WAS " Hinduism doesn't believe in Creationism"
    FROM THE HINDU SCRIPTURES I PROVED THAT NOT LIKE THAT……….
    SO U HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT U'R SCRIPTURE…..IS IT PLZ BRING EVIDENCE FROM THE SCRIPTURES THAT UNIVERSE NOT CREATED BY GOD ………SO WHO R GOING TO SCHOOL U OR ME?

    U MUST REPLAY:

  98. shabeer says:

    #Is it permissible for a Muslim to lie to another Muslim……….
    Stand and say truth:
    7: 26. O Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover yourselves (screen your private parts, etc.) and as an adornment, and the raiment of righteousness, that is better. Such are among the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, that they may remember (i.e. leave falsehood and follow truth).
    6:152 ………..We burden not any person, but that which he can bear. And whenever you give your word (i.e. judge between men or give evidence, etc.), say the truth even if a near relative is concerned, and fulfill the Covenant of Allâh, This He commands you, that you may remember.
    7: 29. Say (O Muhammad SAW): My Lord has commanded justice and (said) that you should face Him only (i.e. worship none but Allâh and face the Qiblah, i.e. the Ka'bah at Makkah during prayers) in each and every place of worship, in prayers (and not to face other false deities and idols), and invoke Him only making your religion sincere to Him by not joining in worship any partner to Him and with the intention that you are doing your deeds for Allâh's sake only
    33: 70. O you who believe! Keep your duty to Allâh and fear Him, and speak (always) the truth.
    Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6307,6308,6309
    It is obligatory for you to tell the truth, for truth leads to virtue and virtue leads to Paradise, and the man who continues to speak the truth and endeavours to tell the truth is eventually recorded as truthful with Allah, and beware of telling of a lie for telling of a lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell-Fire
    Malik :: Book 56 : Hadith 56.7.16 
    Malik related to me that he heard that Abdullah ibn Masud used to say, "You must tell the truth. Truthfulness leads to right action. Right action leads to the Garden. Beware of lying. Lying leads to corruption, and corruption leads to the Fire. Don't you see that it is said, 'He speaks the truth and acts rightly,' and, 'He lies and is corrupt.' 
    Muslim :: Book 42 : Hadith 7120,7121
    Bukhari :: Book 3 :: Volume 34 :: Hadith 418 
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 89 :: Hadith 307,289,320
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 81 :: Hadith 777
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 82 :: Hadith 798 
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 76 :: Hadith 470 ,71,74
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 73 :: Hadith 116
    Muslim :: Book 32 : Hadith 6307 ,6308 ,6309
    Dawud :: Book 24 : Hadith 3575,3566,68,75,84,92,93,94,21,27,28,3343,77 ,96 
    Dawud :: Book 25 : Hadith 3650 
    Dawud :: Book 24 : Hadith 3566 

  99. Supriya says:

    Thanks for telling me the message of Jesus.But I disagree on multiple points you made. It seems to me that you believe in Darwinism( Darwin's theory of natural selection and Survival of fittest). This theory states all species arise and develop through the natural selection of inherited variations that increase the individual's ability to compete,survive,reproduce. e.g. Human being is evolved form Homo sapiens( neanderthals according to you).According to Hinduism " God created( actually manifested) 84 lakh ( 8,400,000) species including human being in order to establish multiple tiers of rebirths for souls. According to Indian philosophy of spirituality even uni-cellular organism possesses consciousness and intelligence and therefore it divides into two.Darwinism is wrong theory.
    You said that we lived like animals completely controlled instinct but after that experience we became aware of our existence of consciousness. I disagree with you because I believe that thousands of years ago human being was practiced soul-consciousness. Gradually he has come to identify himself with body and he has forgotten that he is a soul . Gesus didn't know that he is eternal soul. He didn't know the fundamental principles of karma and re birth. So I don't think that he is spiritually advanced than Hindu Rishis.
    I don't think that this is the only time in which we are leading scientific and civilized life.Ancient Hindus had made considerable advances in many fields such as they knew Algebra,Geometry, Trigonometry, Ayurved: botany,medicine,surgery scientific theories like Quanyum physics, theory of relaviity ,. metallurgy of Iron,Zink,Copper and their alloys.Aircraft building( Vimaan shastra), ship building,Navigation, concept of not only 0 but also all numbers from 1 to 9. So I don't think that Ancient Hindus lead life like animals.

  100. Supriya says:

    Shabeer,A bad news for you. Many Muslims ( including my 3 Muslim friends) visit this website daily. They have begun to doubt Islam and Muhammad's intentions. These educated Muslims voted for BJP because they know that Narendra Modi is the only person who can generate opportunities of employment for not only Hindus but also Muslims.

  101. Supriya says:

    Shabeer, Thank you. You accepted the fact that Hindus are monotheists. Let me tell you the meaning of the verse : All -knowing., all-powerful , infallible Allah says those who believe in charlatan Muhammad will experience hellfire after death.
    By the way shabeer, tell me the name of Islamic school where you are brainwashed. I want to learn Islamic texts so that I can expose lies of barbaric Muhammad of 7th century.

  102. Tnkuk says:

        Yes it's extra easy  when you are an Arabic because the true beauty of Quran is when it's in Arabic but it's okay in English 

         Aaaah sorry i didn't knew that you were talking about "Alif Lam Meem" and similar Some savants say that it's a Challeng from Allah to those who was saying that a human is who writed the Quran so it was like " the Quran is writen by this letters and with your language but no one of you can make a similar thing" and other says that it's still mysterious and Muhammed didn't methioned anything about this point but he said that we must to read them cut not words and Allah know what he is doing 🙂  and one of the savants " ibn Uthaimeen"  say that the savest is to say that it have no meaning in itself God thow what it mean 

      what 1/5 on the Quran because it seam to be that i have understood every thing in the Quran exept the letters it's Mysterious because Muhammed didn't say something about this so savents don't know till now 
    but what do Gerd Puin mean by that 1/5 of the Quran is un-understandable ? i want to see if it's really un-understandable    

          I said to you that it's not like iman is my father or i don't know i see him in the Tv  it's not like he is saying that Gerd …. is a liar but he don't say things from his mind he say what Muhammed say and explain it an Quran too + i told you what he talk about in her program

         it's not like i care about this Gerd and others i'm out of the world i don't even know my contry new's it's just will give me a "    headache" i live a happy life without those savents opinion because in do what i believe + it's not like i'm fool and waiting that strawberry grown in a stone i have experiance and i 'm sure that i'm in the rightest way    100% i want to have the name of Believer it's the closer Grade yaaaaay but i have to work Hhahaha it need to be an extra good person

            No , the most who love and know the Greatest of God are the Savants Imam's which are my favourite they don't lie they are good men really they never talk about Bomb and i don't know they are savents with a pen and a paper and they write good books and say things that i will paye to hear them they are verry important                 

  103. Tnkuk says:

              Oh this is a good point : Look Mr Demsci Imam is not like i see him face to face i see him on TV because he is from another contry so he have a Tv program about verry important things Do you think that he keep talking about how islam is cool and good of cours not + he don't use himself to talk he  say what the prophet and Allah said it's not like he say his own opinion and from the faithfulest source and he say if the talk is weak truth or assured so i con't be affraid of lies + he talk about verry important things like : to obey your parents and what you will get if you obey them and what you have if you don't  and about the way to Allah te tell you how many ways there is and the only one who take you to Allah and we have levels to be closer to God and you can see in which level you are by signs that this level have and it's verry important and true things i have a personal experiance in this and he saiy what will happens in the rip and how to reduce your falts and how to win the most possible of good works  and it's really work it's not like magic you can be closer to God by doing what he love like obey your parents certenelly your mother iyt's a big source of Adventages and to pray in a good way and don't do like the birds when they are eating  something from the floor and many things and it's not sicide bomber and i don't know it's really not this but you will never get borred with that because all our life we are walking to God and every one choose his way  but who choose the right way ? it's your problem 🙂 i finded the right way and it's working 🙂  But the Iman never talk about the women rights or i don't know because he know that every Muslima is satisfied about this and i know a verry nice women who are completely satisfied  and others just don't care and others are out and others live a bad life and they have every thing because they are far from Allah 

         thank you for this but if women didn't say that she is not okay why you are talking in her place 
    do you really know what does a woman if in the right way she is like an adorable innocent person but if she want the war she will be malicious i think that you didn't see an evil woman it's nrml you can see it some day i heard one day from my uncle some stories of malicious the poor Algerian make money and buld a house a beautiful one and buy things for the house and in the end he married a woman and  it's good till when he was Going to his contry to see his family but when he went the keys didn't opened the door she changed the lock and she said don't comeback it's ended here the kid's have grown and i'm tired i don't want to see you again and he killed him self it's a true story his brother i think told my uncle when they were in the airplane and many others the woman is dangerous it's also the weak spot of the man if you give her more that what she deserve you will see if you want that women go up men head give her more that what she deserve but in Islam i have never heard a Women kicking his hasbung out or something  she respect him and faithful too it's more soft that a Barbaric Women wich can eat you and which is Equal in every thing with the man it touche her feminine  but she deserve to not be oppressed by man because there is some evil Humans around the world 

           This is the point that i wanted 😀  let's began  in the hadith he said that the Woman is deficiant in her mind and her religion firs you must to know that mind is not intellignece because if it's intellengence he could say intelligence but he said mind because ( you didn't say the rest of Hadith) she have less mentale abilities i told you because of hormonal changes + if she is enceinte it's wost and because of that she is deficiant in her mind so the waitness of 2 women is equal to 1 man who haven't permanent hormonal changes + in her religion because when she is like this she can't pray + she can't fasting Ramandan + she can't touche the Quran  opposit for the man he have nothing he pray always and it's like that and mind in arabic haven't the synonyme of  intellegence it's totaly diffirent

           It's not like i love him like this but because Allah love him + he is a good man + because Allah told us to love him it's not like i will die if i love him because he is my Prophet and he is a nice person  

  104. Demsci says:

    //"you Non- muslims can't understand this "// But you can't explain this. You use an excuse, that infidels can't understand, but they can if only you can explain. And the quran said that is was easy to understand.

    The mysterious words are " Alif Lam Meem" and such. Gerd Puin said that fully 1/5 of the Quran is un-understandable. Because it came from different sources! Like old Aramaic sources. But don't worry, your Imam will set your mind at ease; these infidels LIE. But maybe he lies.

  105. Demsci says:

    //" there is many liars and haters they create new talks and try to Smirch Honor of my Prophet"//
    Fine, but don't stop there in your reasoning. Don't you see, your Imams need Islam for their income? They can lie too, to you. and your family, so now you believe lies. The Imams can paint a too favorable picture of Islam, can ignore its drawbacks and can make sure you do not listen to very intelligent honest people who try to protect women from Islamist oppression. And you, you end up betraying your sisters being oppressed by men. You came here, but here still you show an attitude of denial, not of curiosity, not of hard thinking, difficult truthfinding. Are you even smart enough to understand this? (According to your prophet women are deficient in intelligence). ( he said it in the Sahih Hadiths,so why do you love such a man? and not men who treat you as equal).

  106. Tnkuk says:

          Hhahahaha really you don't know that it's a swear Allah swear with his creations it's not magic words Khahahaha poor poor people 

     and in some others it's like in Q(16:1) it's an order from Allah to not rush and like this you Non- muslims can't understand this 

  107. TnKuK says:

     No it's important the souce for example your mother told you to bring water from a source and there is many sources you choose the polluted ones for example ?? ! Hah ?

       Of course that you will choose the PURE one 🙂 it's logical it's like this in Talks because there is many liars and haters they create new talks and try to Smirch Honor of my Prophet

  108. Supriya says:

    Demsci, You said that Hinduism seems to claim less decisive divine intervention. I would like to tell you that concept of Divinity in Hinduism is different than that in Abrahamic religions.
    There is basic concept of Creationism in Abrahamic religions. i.e. The Creator(or God) creates everything & Adam-Eve-Apple story. Creator(or God) is outside of it's creation.
    Hinduism doesn't believe in Creationism and Adam-Eve-Apple story. Hinduism advocates Manifestation of Brahman or God. Thousands of years ago Hindu ascetics said that everything is conscious,intelligent and unborn vibration/ wave-function( today Quantum Physicists come to the same conclusion) Hinduism says that Brahman=consciousness pervades everything , living and nonliving.
    Hindu ascetics received this wisdom through intuition during meditation.
    I just want to say that the meaning of divinity in Abrahamic religions is different than that in Indian philosophy of spirituality.

  109. Demsci says:

    But Abeid, you seem to think that "Atheists, Agnostics, Darwinists, Humanists do offer humans and mankind no worthwhile moral compass.

    But they most certainly do: Sam Harris is among the many Darwinists with a big good moral compass; he wrote "The Moral Landscape" offering this MORAL alternative to the moral lifestyles of the monotheistic religions.

    Oh, and of course Ali Sina, a former Muslim, AND former Atheist, has told us about his new (religious, spiritual) beliefs, which are very interesting, and certainly moral too. So you see, there ARE good alternatives for Muslims to choose from. Lack of good alternatives for Islam in the 2oth century already (often) was a lame excuse, but it should no longer be allowed by reasonable people in the 21st century.

  110. Demsci says:

    //"So you see there are not many options left except to abandon religion and became atheist,agnostics or humanist and muslims will never admit it if islam is untrue unless all religions are proven false"//

    Thanks Abeid, interesting reaction. Of course it is logical that anyone doubting his religion looks for and examines alternatives for it, totally agreed.

    And the alternatives are: I. Judaism & Christianity, or variants of them, like Jehovah's witnesses, also Monotheistic.  II. Hinduism and Buddhism. III. Atheist, Agnostic, with many variants. IV. And many assorted divers possibilities (believing in Aliens, like David Icke is one).

    I am sympathetic to Judaism and Christianity, but they have the same drawback as Islam: They may well be untrue and why else believe in and practice them? With Hinduism and Buddhism the truth or falsehood of it somehow seem not so decisively relevant, they seem to claim less decisive divine intervention and to offer primarily a lifestyle. 

    But the "atheists, agnostics", they offer abundantly and all the time fantastic alternative theories and stories to the narratives of the 3 monotheistic religions. These theories and stories have much more evidence and logic and beauty than those of the monotheistic religions IMO. And they have on their side many brilliant minds, living and flourishing in the present era, in contrast to the founders of the monotheistic religions who lived in a decidedly more primitive past.

    But my point was that: Hey, lifestyles and governing styles can be chosen for their use, effectiveness, or from a person's preference, or loyalty, and I am democratically OKay with all that.

    It is just that some theories are far more true than others. And at least the many variants of atheists-agnostics and darwinists offer the truer theories IMO. And my deep wish it is that people say; THIS is what I BELIEVE is most true, in regard to big history (history of UNIVERSE, EARTH AND MANKIND). And THAT is the  lifestyle I practice. But that they can separate the two.

  111. Abeid Salim says:

    //'Even if Islam was proven false, untrue, undivine, would Muslims then still choose to "believe" in Islam for the reasons you mentioned? And so would Muslims admit then when the truth and Islam are in contradiction that the Muslims would still choose Islam over truth? I would be so very glad with such an admission.

    Demsci lets be honest with each other of all the religions i believe islam has the most boundaries and laws which put people in check unlike christianity in which you can do anything you want eg immorality,drinking and fornicating I heard someone say "christianity is a licence to sin" Thats why muslims see the christians as not religious hence there is no way a muslim will believe christianity is right for him as its very hard to find a religious christian and we muslims see the christians as people who have to be saved or some muslims (radicals) see them as evil that should be avoided or they will infect us.Judaism is not an option as jews dont seek converts and thanks to israel being jewish is not possible now as you will be seen as an enemy,as for buddism there is no supreme being to worship and i dont want to mention hinduism as a result of idol worship which is the biggest sin.
    So you see there are not many options left except to abandon religion and became atheist,agnostics or humanist and muslims will never admit it if islam is untrue unless all religions are proven false. 

  112. [email protected] says:

    what information?

  113. KLMNOP says:

    Whatever you choose to prefer but the truth will remain the same.

  114. Armstrong says:

    Sun, moon and earth correspond to the spiritual, astral and physical worlds.

  115. Armstrong says:

    In the real world we have the trinity of sun, moon and earth and also the trinity of the physical world, the astral world and the spiritual world. The later trinity are the planes of existence of all living beings.
    Humans live in the physical world, earth-bound spirits in astral world and spirits in the spiritual world.

  116. knowTheEnemy says:

    Abeid: Islam is "an identity…"

    And what is that identity? A 'clone of Muhammad', isn't it? Please read more articles here. You will see that Ali (and many commentators) help you become your own prophet. When you successfully become your own prophet, THAT is when you will have a true identity (the one that is truly yours)!
    ——————–

    Abeid: Islam is "a culture…"

    Theoretically speaking, it is! But in the real world it is not. Would you say that the Arab culture, Pakistani culture, Iranian culture, Chechen culture, Pashtun culture, etc are all the same? After all they are all Muslims!

    IMO it is more correct to say that all these cultures have been [heavily] influenced by Islam. More correctly, Islam has imposed its own dictates on these cultures. If Islam is taken out, the original mores of all these cultures will flourish again! Hence, it is not wise at all to use the "Even though I know Mo was a fraud I can't leave Islam becuase it is my culture" excuse to stay put in Islam! Find your own identity! Re-find your own culture!
    —————

    ["….on top of that you can be disowned by your parent or worse you could be killed."]

    Your parents will disown you becuase they feel Islam's pressure ("what will people say when they find out".. stuff like that), and they succumb to this pressure because Islam, through its deception and thuggery, has become powerful in society. Those who will kill you will do so because they feel emboldened because of Islam's power.

    But that is exactly why you should leave Islam… to reduce its tyrannical power and make it weak. There are lots of Muslims who feel emboldened when they hear things like "There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world" and "Islam is fastest growing religion". They never hear any criticism of Islam from MSM or from any 'respected' leaders. They rarely hear of someone leaving Islam. All these things embolden them and make them practice Islam with ever more zeal.
    But what would happen if people find out that Muslims have been leaving Islam? Answer: The jihadis' zeal will weaken and they will begin to have doubts! Your parents will no longer feel society's pressure and the most that will happen is that they won't talk to you for a couple of months! When they hear that lots of Muslims have been ditching Islam, they too will begin to have doubts regarding not talking to you.

    Keeping all these things in mind, it is clear that the right thing to do is to ditch Islam. If you live in an Islamic country, you can read Ali's suggestions about what to do. If otoh you live in any non-Muslim majority country, there is little to fear. All you have to do is to show some courage and get the monkey off your back!

  117. Supriya says:

    cchuckc
    Thanks.

  118. Demsci says:

     //"One more thing i want to mention is its better to die believing in something than to have nothing in your heart as that is a VERY BIG RISK because if there is a God you are screwed."//

    I believe that this is related to "Pascal's Wager" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

    But Blaise Pascal wrote about it in the 17th century. Since then we know a lot more. In his day it may have made sense to hedge your bets, nowadays it is sooooo improbable that Islam is true and that unbelief in Islam will get you into hell, while belief in it will get you into heaven.

    It there is a God holding me accountable after death, I will say to HIM that I used the brain HE provided me with to find out which religions and humans were telling the truth and which not and very much and often too! I don;t see how HE can blame me and hold me accountable for NOT believing Mohammed was a messenger from HIM!

  119. Demsci says:

    //" am a very open minded person but islam is more than just a religion,its an identity,culture and a way of life that is why its very hard for muslims to leave it and on top of that you can be disowned by your parent or worse you could be killed."//

    Abeid Salim, You are most welcome here to debate and do a better job at it than Shabeer,

    You gave a few &nbsp;reasons WHY Muslims are and stay Muslim. And yes, that is the reality. But these are completely wrong motivations to believe! The only valid criterion to believe in a religion IMO is whether or not the religion is true!

    But OK, now that you were kind enough to inform us of the motivation of Muslims to stay and convert in(to) Islam, are you now ready to admit also that:

    Even if Islam was proven false, untrue, undivine, would Muslims then still choose to "believe" in Islam for the reasons you mentioned? And so would Muslims admit then when the truth and Islam are in contradiction that the Muslims would still choose Islam over truth? I would be so very glad with such an admission.

  120. cchuckc says:

    @Abeid Salim
    //The word Allah was used before the islam by other religions hence Allah did not start with islam.//
    But only in Islam is it considered a proper name of the Supreme entity. Arabic is just a language which predates Islam, no wonder Allah must have been a word for God before Islam came around. For example Muhammad's father was Abdallah (literally slave of Allah). Now if you agree that:
    1. Muhammad was a Quraish
    2. Quraish were polytheist before Islam came around
    then it follows that Muhammad's father was a polytheist and hence an idol-worshipper, therefore it is very likely, as @ihateislam says, Allah was one of many deities.

    //You know its better to keep your mouth shout and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. //
    And you just did. Congratulations!!

  121. Abeid Salim says:

    i hate to break it out to you but leaving islam is not an option,dont get me wrong am a very open minded person but islam is more than just a religion,its an identity,culture and a way of life that is why its very hard for muslims to leave it and on top of that you can be disowned by your parent or worse you could be killed.

  122. Abeid Salim says:

    i hate to break it out to you but leaving islam is not an option,dont get me wrong am a very open minded person but islam is more than just a religion,its an identity,culture and a way of life that is why its very hard for muslims to leave it and on top of that you can be disowned by your parent or worse you could be killed.
     One more thing i want to mention is its better to die believing in something than to have nothing in your heart as that is a VERY BIG RISK because if there is a God you are screwed.

  123. Abeid Salim says:

    You rather worship a human and you get 6 likes for saying that? This website has many islam haters and am not surprised.The word Allah was used before the islam by other religions hence Allah did not start with islam.You know its better to keep your mouth shout and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

  124. cchuckc says:

    @Supriya
    //Surname of one of my friends is Paul and he is converted Christian from Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh//
    :-). That doesn't mean that all Pauls are converted Christians or are from Uttar Pradesh. And so what if he is a Christian convert or from UP? It matters not what he is but what he stands for. You may attack his arguments for atheism or against religion for example.

    //How would you respond a person if he ridicule your beloved Guruji by calling pedophile ?//
    1. By ignoring the ridicule altogether
    2. By charging the person to prove his allegations.

    //how would you respond a person if he ridicules you by calling militant and fanatic female ?//
    Ask him to prove it or provide the basis of his allegation or simply ignore it. You will often find that people resort to name calling only when they don't have a good argument to push their agenda. You will also find that when you resort to name calling the actual point is lost in transit, soon both of you will get into a slanging march and prove to the world how good your vocabulary (of swear words, that is) is instead of how good your respective arguments were. Serves no purpose at all.

  125. abc123 says:

    1 x 1 x 1=1 qed

  126. Supriya says:

    knowTheEnemy
    The hour of death of Indian Mujahiddin and SIMI is near because Modi-Yug has begun.Mr. Modi is Hindu nationalist
    so he will work as much as possible to settle Pakistani and Bangladeshi non-muslims in India
    I am not envious if someone converts to another religion.India's constitution grants every citizen the Right to Religion.I belong to Jain community but I believe in Hinduism.
    I asked Sumit for incontrovertible evidence but he didn't reply me.

  127. abc123 says:

    Mark 16:15
    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    John 14:15
    King James Version (KJV)
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    John 8
    31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
    32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    Psalm 138:2….for you have magnified your word above all your name.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

    1 Corinthians 1
    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

    1 John 5
    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
    9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
    10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

    Hebrews 4
    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    Either you believe Gods word or you don't.  

  128. knowTheEnemy says:

    A converted Christian!!….. and that causes envious resentment in you. I have a feeling that your friend converting to Christianity IS what made you attack Sumit Paul's person.

    But like the wise always said- "Shortcuts don't always work"! Christians and Muslims are successful in their missionary activity because they work hard for it! I saw a couple of years ago, a news report related to India's conflict with China and the reporter had gone to a remote place in Arunachal Pradesh to interview the people living there! A woman was being interviewed and there was a photo in this news article. In the photo, in the background of the woman, there was a picture of Jesus. Apparently the missionaries had successfully spread their message to even this very remote area.

    If you have read the Purans then you know that whoever does tapa (i.e. works hard) to get what s/he wants, has a very high chance of getting it. This is apparent in real life too! The non-Muslims of India, and all other hedonists of the world, work hard for money and prosperity… well, they get their money and 'prosperity'! The missionaries work hard for converts… they get their converts! The Muslims work hard to have Sharia rule over everyone (including over Hindus, hedonists, and Christians)…. well, they get to have Sharia rule over everyone!

    Everyone gets whatever they work hard to get! If you work hard for what you want, you too will be successful! Another way of saying this same thing is that, if you don't like people converting to Christianity…. you will have to work hard for it!

    Personal attacks will not work at all!

  129. knowTheEnemy says:

    If someone called any of the Gurus 'pedophile' then I will ask for evidence from reliable sources. I will not attack back to their persons; there is no need to do that! Failure to provide evidence will by itself reveal [to readers/listeners] the falseness of his/her claim. Not only that, s/he will lose credibility and people will stop paying attention to his/her claims and ridicules.

    ["how would you respond a person if he ridicules you by calling militant and fanatic female ? Are not these personal attacks against me ?"]

    Who cares if some nobody called me (or you) "militant and fanatic"?? People have their own brains…. they can read your comments (and mine) and can tell whether or not we are 'militant' or 'fanatic'. Hence there is no need to rile up your emotions over that. If you can think up a smart retort, post it! If you can't, just leave a non-combative reply and then ignore the jerk!

  130. Supriya says:

    cchuckc
    Surname of one of my friends is Paul and he is converted Christian from Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh.

  131. Supriya says:

    cchuckc and knowTheEnemy
    How would you respond a person if he ridicule your beloved Guruji by calling pedophile ? how would you respond a person if he ridicules you by calling militant and fanatic female ? Are not these personal attacks against me ?

  132. KLMNOP says:

    @ Demsci….

    Agreed.

  133. cchuckc says:

    @knowTheEnemy,
    I agree with you. Hit the argument not the person (at least as much as possible). I find this very silly that Sumit should be targeted because of the region he hails from. For all that I know 'Paul' could as well be a Bengali or Punjabi surname. In fact it is very unlikely that Paul is from Bihar/UP. And none of that matters actually. What matters is what he has said, I highlighted two such instances and I have attacked both without a reply forthcoming.

  134. TnKuK says:

    It's not Muhammed who wrote it Okay ? he don't know writing even saying poetry So this words give us information about Allah 

  135. MovingFoward says:

    No where on this article does say that SIna is trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. He is just explaining the Trinity.

  136. knowTheEnemy says:

    ["….Interestingly many Indian Prime Ministers belong to that region….."]

    Ok so not only some Gods but many PMs too belong to that region! Well to me, that only reflects something good about that region.

    Talking of PMs, Modi (and his party) has won the latest Indian elections and is going to be the next PM! Personally I do not know much about him and my impression so far is that he concentrates on 'development' and 'prosperity'. I am not sure if he will work to check the Islamic menace. If however he makes it easy for non-Muslims from Pakistan and Bangladesh to immigrate and settle [for good] in India, then I will trust him a lot more!

  137. MovingFoward says:

    Wow Ali Sina. I never really understood the Trinity. Thanks for explaining it so beautifully 🙂

  138. knowTheEnemy says:

    Dear, it is not right to attack others' person, what language they speak, or their ethnicity, no matter how much you dislike what they said. People can be passionate about thier beliefs (especially on topics like religion and politics) and say it to others. The proper thing to do is to counter their argument or simply post a non-combating response. If you don't know what response to give, ask for help from those you trust.

    Secondly according to wikipedia, both Amitabh and his father were born in Allahabad which is in UP, not Uttarakhand!

  139. Ali Sina says:

    @[email protected]
    No I don't know the meaning of those disjoint letters at the beginning of some suras and I doubt Muhammad knew them too. In my view he inserted them to make his asinine verses look mysterious. Now his followers can ponder and speculate about the hidden meaning of those letters when they really mean nothing.

  140. Supriya says:

    Phoenix
    Thank you. I agree with you.Sumit doesn't believe in consciousness and spiritualism and therefore he lacks compassion, integrity, open mindedness.

    Atheist keeps saying that he doesn't believe in anything .It means he believes in only himself then he should ask himself "who is he? is he a materialistic body ? is he thought? is there consciousness within him?
    Upanishad( Hindu scripture) says " first know yourself".
    Sumit said that he has relinquished his parents' religion. His less intelligence doesn't allow him to ask above questions and therefore he seems very insecure within. He irritated Indians those who believe in spiritualism using harsh words.

  141. Supriya says:

    knowTheEnemy

    I am not prejudiced towards any state or region of India.But harsh comments of this stupid atheist Sumit made me to respond him in that way. In fact I am patriotic person and I love the whole India very much.

    One more truth : there is a particular region in India whose literacy rate is low, birth rate is high, poverty and unemployment rate is high This region is hub of Islamic terrorism..( and this is because of politicians of that region. Interestingly many Indian Prime Ministers belong to that region. However, poor condition has remained unaltered in that region) And thus people from that region migrate to Western and Southern states.[I am not criticizing migration of the people]

    Star of the Millennium Mr. Amitabh Bachchan is from Uttarakhand.

  142. TnKuK says:

    Yes I know where they are 😀 Allah told us too 🙂 
      Look we have 10 things which reduce our falts intencity till 0 okay ? we have 4 in this life and 3 in the Rip and 3 others in the Judgement day if all these aren't enought for ending your falts you will go to hell to make the rest of falts finish 000000   sitting in hell is depending to you falts intencity when you pay the price of  your falts you will go the the Heaven 🙂 and we have all what we will pass in the judgment day all the things and every thing what need to be passed …
    So, it's depanding to you and your falts and the good things that you have done …… anyway you asked where are they they are in a place called " El Berzakh" which is the second stage of existance if your falts have been payed it's okay it will be a beautiful place + you have you good work which will be with you his beauty is depending to your good works intencity 🙂 and if your falts haven't been payed you will be tortured until the last falt and if you were net believing that there is one god your rip will be a mini hell and you will have you bad work as a friend which is extra ugly depinding to your work + and "El Barzakh" is not a easy stage you must to be prepared to it also Allah told us what will happend there from A to Z there is 2 angels wich will ask you who is your God what is you religion how did you know and if you didn't answer the right answer they will hit a hit that you have never tryed + you will also have many things
        Sorry because i don't talk very good english i can't explain many many things that you must to know
     i don't have the ideal words to discribe all these things but if you are not conveinced  i will tell you what you want just ask 🙂

  143. TnKuK says:

    It's the only answer if i said another thing i will be a liar if you can't accept this you can ask an Imam and you will see this is not my personal conclution or i don't know i have learn it Okay ? so don't critic whole the answer critic the details if you can't you can ignore and go to eat Pistachio 🙂
    Have a nice day 🙂
    + i think that shabeer & slaveof prophet  don't recive the notification so i don't think that they have seen you comment 🙂

  144. TnKuK says:

    Hahahahaha 🙂
      No,Mr,Klmnop  😀 i can read it and understand it    No no no  do you think that i don't know my prophet history ?
    and i know who is a assurated source of Talks and this man Ibn sa'd i have never heard a " Imam" bring a talk from his book they allways took talks from Sahih Muslim okay ?? ++ if i want to read his book i will buy one okay and i will read it but it's not assured that what he says is true i prefer Sahih Muslim it's sure 
    + i didn't search the naration and i didn't enjoy it i enjoyed the false talk it's funny 🙂

  145. kane says:

    Thanks a lot Dr Sina, you have thought me a lot. The knowledge i have aquired here cannot be quantified in monetary terms. i have also gained a lot of knowledge on how to debate with these brain dead  godforsaken muslim satan worshippers. They are just like the pharoah of the old, no amount of logic,reasoning ,explanation and knowledge can free them from the shackles with which the evil mohammed had bound them. Satan has hardened their hearts and no one  except God can help them. These people are lost sheep, if you Ali sina cannot convince them with the volumes of articles you have written to rubbish this false religion from the pit of hell no other human being can. tTheir false prophet may have slept with all the beautiful wome'n of his time' thru deceit and coercion but i am sure that now he is rotting in the deepest and hottest pit of fuel. mohammed piss be upon t'his disgusting creature.

  146. kane says:

    Muslims are retarded indeed .Even with this beautiful explanation of the trinity they still do not comprehend it .Ali Sina you have done your bit because if you cannot convince this people that they are followers and worshipers  of sataan no one else will be able to convince them. Who can write like ali sina or use logic like him yet thes satanists have hardened their hearts. Ali sina i dont know how to thank you. since last year that i discovered your site i dont do anything else during my spare time than to consume loads and loads of knowledge from. Before i discovered your site i thought ihad a lotof knowledge but going through your articles demonstrated to me that i knew nothing prior to discovering your si

  147. Phoenix says:

    @supriya

    Atheism is faith-based like religion.The evidence and logic that should refute theists' propositions are absent.Sumit Paul knows this,hence his reluctance in providing arguments that could be analyzed for coherence and evidence.

  148. [email protected] says:

    respected Ali Sina, i have read the quran in english and each chapter starts with some ''miraculous letters''. muslims claim that none but allah know their meaning. do you know why muhammad wrote those letters and what can be their meaning?

  149. KLMNOP says:

    It seems the page of the narration is eaten by a goat from your book, so you were not able to read that. You are lucky that there is internet and you can search the narration and enjoy it.

  150. KLMNOP says:

    @ tuktuk. Where are all the guys who have died until now and who are dying or will die in the future, where will all these guys stay till the day of judgement? Is your allah providing any secret accomodation to all these fellows or they are hanging between heaven and hell?

  151. Demsci says:

    //"I personally feel that following religion is better than atheism because religion puts fear of god in an individual and that might prevent them from harming others and being moral"//

    KLMNOP, I agree with your fine post, except that you here give ONE reason to follow a religion. And it pertains to the USE, Benefit, advantage, of the religion. But it seems to ignore the even more important aspect of religion, and that is whether it is TRUE or not?

    Confining my input to talking about Islam, I like to say that it is not true, and if Muslims should have the motivation to follow it because of it's alleged "use, benefits, advantages", then I think that is a wrong, bad, invalid motivation. Lifestyles that are equally or more beneficial and not false as Islam is, are available to mankind IMO.

    Although this motivation would still be a better one than following Islam because of "heritage", loyalty to loving and loved parents, siblings and community, or fear of punishment or being ostracized.

    Which I suspect is the motivation of most Muslims, next to hope of heaven and fear of hell of course (but if Islam is not TRUE, then that hope and fear are useless too). Or perhaps it is their ignorance about the truer and good alternatives to Islam's beliefs and lifestyle and their lack of curiosity about them.

  152. KLMNOP says:

    That's absolutely right. I always thought that atheism can be dangerous, as you have said the moral component should be there and religion provide that. It is true that religions were invented by great scholars (exception: Mohammad), but they put in some absurd or harsh things so that humans should not harm others. A human mind can be more destructive than constructive. I personally feel that following religion is better than atheism because religion puts fear of god in an individual and that might prevent them from harming others and being moral. Humanist atheism is fine or you can say better than following any religion but in the long run it can be fatal if humanism fades, as human mind is mischievous.

  153. Ali Sina says:

    I did not delete any of your posts, If your posts are under Shabeers, they will be removed automatically when I delete his copy pasts posts

  154. Alex Man says:

    Dr. Ali Sina, consider this Islamic trinity of Mu>Gabriel>Allah>Gabriel>Mu.

  155. Alex Man says:

    You gave a stupid answer. So Shabeer & slaveof prophet, what are your answers?

  156. TnKuK says:

    Hahahaha ! thank you Drear writer for this important question 🙂 read carefully and try to understand this : 

      So, Greatest "Allah" gived us most details about every thing not like Christian just be a good man and not  enought information so Greatest " Allah " love his latest creation which is Humans right ? So we do many many many mistakes so Greatest " Allah " don't want us to be in the hell or to be tortured but we are such us fool so we make many mistakes so he gived us a mercy and this mercy is like this " we will be in the hell with our falts but if we suffer in the life + being patient and never loosing hope in Allah  we will reduce our falts so if it stay like this we can reduce and reduce our falts by this + by asking Allah his forgiveness and he will 🙂 so we will not go to hell and our suferrens in the End will be reduced So it's good  + Allah have writen every thing so what is happening until now is writen and the film is mouving so Allah writed per example that person n1 will die in this day so he make that he will die that day in that moment not + not – so he organize a reson of deth so this Mers is a reason that Allah made to end the life that must to be end and when Allah want this we are all accepting that because he know more that us( it's possible that when the muslim n1 if he keen living he will make much mistakes wich will put him in the hell so Allah helped him ) + it reduce our mistakes intensity so it's not a game it's serious Allah is the best  you can't know how Great is "Allah" + he give us all what we want ( good things bad things no because he know ) and he forgive us if you make "A" good thing Allah will count it from 10 to infinity of good things and if you made a mistake Allah will count it 1 mistake and if you ask Allah to forgive you he will but you must to be patient and Honest Allah is the most important in my life
    my life is beautiful because of Allah he help me in every thing i can't be sad when i remember that allah is allways whith those who are patient the most Greatest Allah listen to me and make my wishes true but i allways do mistakes :'(
    Do you have another question ?

  157. Tnkuk says:

    I don't know this Ibn Sa'd and  his book so give me Talks from the assured one like Sahih Muslim and similar like this or Al Moataa li Malek  + this man did he go to talk with a Prophet wife No i don't think + i have never heard this Talk befaure because i know how Muhammed dies Okay ? 

          And his wife Aicha said all how he died  and she didn't mentioned that his wives were gathered aroud him i f you don't believe me ask me if you want the Talk and i will bring it to you okay ?
     
       + don't try to win me in my religion i know it verrrrrry well Okay ? and i know the whole deth Story of Our prophet Muhammed Thanks to my Greatest " Allah " don't try to win in ohers stadium okay ?

       + if Muhammed wasn't a good men i will never fillow him + i know what you don't know so don't critic a person that you don't know 

    All my publication didn't take your attention only in the part  of Muhammed try to answer me in my evidence not in Mohammed reality i know the true talks i'am not an ignorant i'm in islam because i love islam something that we love we try our best to know the most information about it so don't think that i'am and ignorant  + if you have read Sina's book i have read it too and there is 1 or 2 line which is true all the rest are lies, So don't think that reading Sina's book is 100% true okay ? I was shocked when i have seen Sina's book because he containe many lies i have read whole the book and he didn't believe me because he think that he will win me in my religion and lie to me in things that i know and i knew

  158. Alex Man says:

    Tnkuk, Shabeer & slaeofprophet,
    Urgent for you to answer this question :- why did Allah create the MERS virus to kill Muslims in the holy land?

  159. knowTheEnemy says:

    ok thanks…. I need to study Boolean Algebra.

  160. knowTheEnemy says:

    …….Not to mention Bollywood superstar Amitabh Bachhan 🙂

  161. knowTheEnemy says:

    Lord Raam, Lord Krishna, and Gautam Buddh were all from UP/Bihar 🙂

  162. knowTheEnemy says:

    ["I kept aside all borrowed knowledge and scriptures long back…. as it is required to be empty and knowledgeless for one's true being to profess."]

    I would say it is not required to be "empty and knowledgeless" to find the 'real' knowledge, otherwise everyone will be re-inventing the wheel! Studying others' knowledge in fact strengthens our foundation and makes us better equipped to find our own truth.
    What is required is non-attachment to what one has heard from the wise and studied in books. Hence, if you experience/ realize something and it conflicts with what you have heard/read, you should go with what you yourself realize.

    Note to readers: Some readers might not know what Akshat meant when he said "I kept aside all borrowed knowledge….". A wise man was once asked "how does one gain knowledge?" He replied, "Read the books and then put them aside. Then go out and start seeking knowledge." Apparently what he meant was that the knowledge one gains when one finds it by himself/herself, IS the person's real knowledge.

  163. cchuckc says:

    1+1+1 = 1 in Boolean Algebra

  164. knowTheEnemy says:

    Unless I missed what Aboubakar is trying to say in his comment, I would say 1+1+1=3 only when there is no mirror!

  165. Supriya says:

    Dr. Sina
    You deleted my comment that I posted in response to this atheist Sumit Paul.

  166. Ali Sina says:

    I did not delete your comments. But if you replied to Shabeer, whose cut and paste posts are regularly deleted, your comments will also be deleted. I suggest ignore Shabeer. I may even block his access to the site. He is not contributing to the debates and is spamming with cut and paste material.

  167. NabiCabul says:

    If you compare The Bible with Gold Mine. What you compare the Koran with? A Landfill? LoL

  168. Supriya says:

    Sumit Paul,If you are really omniscient then answer Mr.cchuckc's question. Let me see how could you defend yourself.

  169. Supriya says:

    Sumit Paul
    Bring me incontrovertible evidence which shows my Guru is ………….Admit that you are the initiator of those insane personal attacks against me.
    Respond to Mr. cchuckc and prove that you are not coward.
    Can't you explain me your understanding of Advaitavad. Does it mean that you never know Advaitavad ? Admit that you are the best liar.
    I can only feel disgust for a coward SUMIT PAUL( from UP/Bihar)

  170. Sakat says:

    @ Know the Enemy
    Don't you think 1+1+1=3 (which is finite ,rest in duality) :p

  171. Supriya says:

    Dr. Sina
    I would like to request you to restore my comment.

  172. Supriya says:

    Web Administer Mr. Jonathan Harrel
    Why did you delete my comment ? Didn't you read this Sumit's cheap comment ? He did hurt me lot. Please restore my comment.

  173. cchuckc says:

    @Sumit Paul,
    //Dasvaikalik Sutra of Jainism, you find how Suribhadra Swami detonated Shankar's Advait//
    Please explain with chapter and reference.

  174. Akshat says:

    Hi Sumit,

    I am not enlightened .. at least not in my awakened consciousness I experienced it…  m still searching my true being who is changeless and eternal.  After enlightenment experience Buddha said "I got what i already had ". this way we all are enlightened but it is of what use as long as we have not experienced the oneness yet….before that experience claims of  enlightenment can only be a intellectual jargon.. in  India millions are chanting "Aham Brahmasmi" morning and evening without experiencing it.  

    I kept aside all borrowed knowledge and scriptures long back…. as it is required to be empty and knowledgeless for one's true being to profess.

    I love to read ali..so i asked him the question. 

  175. SUMIT PAUL says:

    Akshat and Supriya only show the pettiness of their thinking. They can stoop to any level. When you can't refute someone's incontrovertible views, you resort to personal attack. This is the hallmark of all cowards. I never knew, this forum also encouraged such lowly human beings with no knowledge and sense whatsoever. Disgusting, to say the least.

    Sumit Paul

  176. Supriya says:

    Sumit Paul
    You said that you relinquished your parent's religion. May I ask do you serve your parents ?
    (the answer must be negative.)

  177. Supriya says:

    Akshat
    Do you know Brahmasutra of this criminal Sumit Paul ? Let me tell you 1] to challenge ladies 2] to not respond rational persons here like Mr.cchuckc and Mr. Phoenix( he is coward)

  178. Supriya says:

    Akshat
    Something went wrong in his life. He is destroyed completely. His all comments show his insecurity. He doesn't know how to speak with ladies. We pity this 3 rd grade MALE atheist.

  179. Supriya says:

    Sumit Paul, 3rd grade atheist MALE
    I said that I don't want to speak fluent English.I know you are not Maharashtrian. Tell me where is your native place? UP or Bihar ? or J&K ?
    Learn Marathi if you want to settle in Pune. Come to me I 'll teach not only Marathi but also manners.

    So you know Advaitavad. Explain me your understanding of Advaitavad (from FALTU atheist).

    Dr.Sina believes in Spiritualism. Atheists like you worth Rs. 00 him. ha ha ha.

    Criminals use pseudonym. Tell me how many crimes have you committed ?

  180. SUMIT PAUL says:

    You're right, Akshat. But remember that when one quotes someone, one is in agreement with that person. My so-called enlightenment is my enlightenment. It's relative and subjective. Yours could be different from mine. There's no such thing as objective or universal enlightenment.

    SUMIT PAUL

  181. Akshat says:

    believe in ur own brahmsutra… borrowed brahmsutra are of no use

  182. SUMIT PAUL says:

    Thanks a ton…………….I've NO religion. I relinquished my parents' Hinduism. Maclean is my nom de guerre (pseudonym) and has nothing to do with any religious identity. You're a Jain, which's actually an atheistic faith like Buddhism. Mahavir, like Buddha, never believed in any god and in Dasvaikalik Sutra of Jainism, you find how Suribhadra Swami detonated Shankar's Advait. First of all, you need to learn the basics of your own faith before advising others. Ali Sina must be amused to see himself  pigeonholed as a Hindu by an uncultured (JAIN)  female!! By the way, I'm also Poona-based. Come to me. I'll teach you how to write/speak decent English. Ha…Ha…Ha.  Learn Sanskrit to understand original Hindu texts and after that learn Prakrit to understand your Jainaagam.. 

    -SUMIT PAUL ([email protected]

  183. Phoenix says:

    @sumit
    The problem with religion is not god but in defending establishments that are considered infallible where no new information is allowed to enter,thus progress is stifled.If you think for even one moment that atheists are somehow immune to this irrational thinking and behavior then you're sorely mistaken.Just like religious fanatics,atheists have also organized themselves into groups whose sole purpose is to stigmatize and ridicule any information that may suggest dualism.
    Not all theists are religious fanatics,just as not all atheists are militant but be cautious of the ones who hold allegiance to certain orthodox "skeptical" groups.

  184. Supriya says:

    Sumit Paul, Hey you converted Christian
    Your reply shows your poor upbringing.
    I don't belong to UK or USA. I belong to Pune,a city in Maharashtra. My mother tongue is Marathi.I don't need to speak fluent English. Dr. Sina and other people here understand my broken English. I think emotions are more important than the words while communicating with each other.

    Dr. Sina is philosophically Hindu. He knows Advaitavad very well than you. By the way I belong to Jain community.
    Just a friendly request, attain AOL course and practice meditation. Your hatred and rude attitude will disappear.

  185. NabiCabul says:

    Superb! You explain Trinity better than most Christians.

  186. knowTheEnemy says:

    Apparently you read the article but did not bother understand what was being said! If there is a 1 and there is a mirror and you can see this 1 in the mirror too, then how many 1s are really there??

    Even a five year old can [correctly] answer that question!

  187. SUMIT PAUL says:

    'Every individual is enlightened and unenlightened at the same time.'

    -Vachaspati Mishra in his 'Brahmasutra'

    SUMIT PAUL ([email protected])

  188. Akshat says:

    are you the enlightened one ? 

  189. SUMIT PAUL says:

    Your reply in FRACTURED English underlines your rank ignorance, the ignorance of a typical, mutton-headed Hindu, who thinks that Ravi Shankar is the most enlightened fellow on earth! Do you know, your Ravishankar is a paedophile like Muhammad?……….Ha…Ha…Ha. I've been noticing that of late, Hindus have become too militant and abusive. Mr Sina, it's not just Islam, Hinduism is also equally fanatic and its followers are blockheads like this female, who understands very little English and her own stupid faith, Hinduism. The whole world is in turmoil because of such zealots, whom you can find in all religions, not just in Islam. I rest my case here.

    SUMIT PAUL ([email protected])

     

  190. Supriya says:

    Sumit Paul
    Have I mentioned the word 'trinity' and 'brahmin' in my comment ? I come to know that you know nothing about spiritualism, Advaitavad and Buddhism.
    You don't need to bother about my two square mill. I belong to well-to-do family. I warn you, don't lecture me again using harsh words. Keep your advices towards you and adopt open-minded attitude.

  191. KLMNOP says:

    Even on his deathbed the wives mocked him, how much respect his wives had for him just read below.

    Zayd ibn Aslam said, "When the Prophet was so sick and on the verge of death his wives gathered around him. Safiyyah bint Huyayyay said, 'O Messenger of Allah, by Allah, I would like to be in your place.' Hearing her utterance, the Prophet's wives winked at her. The Prophet saw them and said, 'Rinse your mouths.' They said, 'For what, Messenger of Allah?' He said, 'For your winking at her, by Allah, she is telling the truth.'" (Ibn Sa'd, Tabaqat, vol. 8, p.101, Cited in Muhammad Fathi Mus'ad, The Wives of the Prophet Muhammad: Their Strives and Their Lives, p.175)

  192. Aboubakar Kareem says:

    Consider this simple logic:-
    Since God oneness is infinity then it implies that infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity hence 1 + 1+ 1 = 1

  193. Ali Sina says:

    I don’t think we will have all our questions answered. Since knowledge is endless, our questions will never end. Zoroaster asked Ahura Mazda why the moon changes its phases. This was a puzzle to ancient people. of course Muhammad knew the answer. He said it is a big calender in the sky to show people the day of the month. That question is now answered, and new ones have taken its place. Now we ask, is the universe infinite or does it have an edge? Is it a he hologram? Why subatomic particles behave in such a strange and counter intuitive way? One day we will find answers to all these questions but then we will find new questions.

  194. cchuckc says:

    @Sumit
    //Can a hungry man's stomach be filled with religious **** of any religion?//
    What a foolish question. A religion is not an economical theory. By you same token the Theory of Gravity is rubbish since it can't feed people.

  195. Ali Sina says:

    I am not a Christian. I love Jesus. I have a personal relationship with Jesus and no ties to any Christian or church. I also don’t believe in most of the Bible, which I regard to be mostly fables.

    I discovered Jesus when my spiritual eyes were opened. I am older than Jesus and a lot more educated than him I have access to the Internet and have read hundreds of books. I doubt Jesus had read a single book in his life. There were no book in print when he lived. Despite all the advantages that I have compared to Jesus, when I discover a spiritual truth I realize he had spoken of it already. How could he know these things if he was not connected to a spiritual source? They are unfortunately hidden. The Bible is like a gold mine, which means most of it is dirt. You need to have a spiritual eye to be able to see the gold. Miners know that not every rock that shines contain gold.

    You say Muslims would rather become atheist than Christian. That is fine with me. I am not here to promote Christianity. When I was an atheist I did not promote atheism. I am a rationalist. I base my beliefs on reason. At this moment I am spiritually a Christian, ethically a Buddhist and philosophically a Hindu. But each person has to choose his or her own path. If atheism is for you, that is fine with me. Even if you are an atheist, I encourage you to be a humanist atheist. Without that moral component, atheism can be very dangerous. Materialistic atheism wreaked havoc in the last century. When I was an atheist, I was a humanist atheist. I don’t see anything wrong in that. Now that I have gained a new spiritual insight, it no longer satisfies me. It was a necessary step in my personal evolution.

  196. Tnkuk says:

    ( Finally 🙂 )

    Mohammed seen God or i don't know so if you are not Muslim you will never Know your God not by his nature but by his kidness and Greatest and words can't say 

       Muhammed is not a liar + he is a good person is you are mad because he had many wives it's not youR problem he married them he didn't insult them + they loved him and respected him 

       Because bibble is a Human writing okay it was perfect until Pistachio heads mangle it and re write it like what they like and make all Christian believe this stupid things 

               Sorry it's not logical to have 3 God's which refer to one who is playing whith Humans he is the son of himself ppppppppppppppppppppffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff    i prefer Islamic Only one God not like your imagination + the bibble never had a Scantific miracle  because it is re rited by humans 

    Yours 🙂
    R……

  197. Tnkuk says:

    (the rest)

     9- HAhahahaha! if God have a Heaven why would Greatest God want to walk in a ugly place like earth + it contain many Human pigs i really don't know why Allah will do this  and it's hateful for a God to come down to our dispicable level pfffffffffffff it is IMPOSSIBLE  + He don't need us pfff WE need him Hahahahah i don't know why jesus will die for idiots who don't give him attention pfff and he will be killed many and many times which meen that every good person 13423565433 in the world will have a deth of Jesus and he will go to Heaven  No !! sorry it's not logical + i don't understand why his mother wear a thing similar to Hijab also Sisters of Church Oh wait i know islam say that 🙂  + i don't know what is the nessecery of putting Babies naked pictures + you sing the Bibble it's not serious 

    10- And now you are saying that there is One God right?!  He do all this !
     one God is himelf Son  you want to say that ? !  + he have not a goal with this trinity  So the god that you are talking about don't like himelf he want to walk on the ugly  earth and talk with people and have a mother and ignore himself and tell people to   pay attention the human and pray to the human Son pppppffffffff     f    f    f  f  f  ffff  fef     Please what kuind of God are you creating with your words  all christian think that not only you  but wee in Islam we have a Great Allah who "Do not underestimate the same"   he is the only God that we pray that we love not like you imaginary one pff  who you want me to love God or Jesus ou the Holy thing  pfffff not like us we believe that One God  that kind Allah he teaches us many good things i love Allah Verty much he save me allways he NEVER EVER let me or something he is My God this feeling is the most beautiful feeling in the world that you have a God one in the earth this Greatest God hear you and he can love you if you are a good person it's the most beautiful feeling that the Stronger One in the existance is with you he save you allways and he saved me allways not 1 time or 56 time more and more + he gived me many things  Allah is the best 
       it's far from you feeling with jesus he is a human i will not worship a human allah is the perfect not a Human + Jesus is my brother in Islam and i love all true muslims and believers it's a beautiful life when Allah is with us 😀 

        You don't know God so no one say that he is a consciousness  we are even not in the same dimention we and God  so if god is like a knowledge Jesus can give us some of God's things so we will be all perfect pfffffffffffffffffff please  +  God is a Holy name wich is gived to the only one in the existance but when there is 3 and i don't know it will not be a God it will be a strong person 
          Not all living beings have God spirit + don't compare God  spirit to ours he gived it to  us just to be alive not to have super power or to fly ou to being God's so stop !!
          
      Mohammed and us musn't know the Nature of our God do you understand ?!  God is not a person like your friend that you can critic and talk with God is Allah the only one + No one said that 

  198. Tnkuk says:

    (rest)
       4- (Q, 5:72-75) This is not an ignorance it is a false question wich not expresses ignorance it expresses warning and to let every one think about this ( a normal person will say "yes why doesn't  me ?") and for scolding 

        5- No, we are not trinity because mind is in our body and we don't think with a Mysterious thing that we don't know like the soul ( the soul is mysterious ) we think with our Brains according to a chimical react and things so our brand start thinking and ……etc  So People who are Crazy according to you they are 2 not like us we are trinity  and they who don't controle theirs body they are 2 too not like us trinity Right ? and the dead the don't have a soul but they have a mind and a body so they are not trinity ? what ?!
      we are 2 combined body and soul if one of them go the other too so they are united no one can live without the other so don't say that we are 3 ! you  are saying like that : the Carpenter made a door if the Carpenter had a son the door too 😮 now the door had a moss why can't the carpenter  it is logical no ? pffff please ! 

      6-  From : we can understand ……to : that object is the mirror  yes yes you are right ! but you cant say a Sun on a mirror because you will be blind if you keep looking + if you let the mirror out side for few hours it will burn all things No ?!  because it is strong  + the mirror will be hot if you touche it you will have an injury so don't play with things like Sun ! + Allah is stronger then a mini Sun that we have so if you see a God you will die and melt and every thing do you think that Allah make all this and in the end he is not enought Great please (Subhana Allah Amma yassifoun !) 
       
       7-(You are not talking about the mirror which is made of glass.  You are talking of the reflection of the sun in it.  This does not mean that the sun is divided in two or has descended physically to enter the mirror.  The sun remains intact, while at the same time it can be viewed in the mirror.) Yes but if the Sun keep shining into the mirror the mirror will be broken or it will make a big troubles no ? ! it can't be viewed sorry it is extra liting 

          8-No, you can't compare God to the sun it have no comparation because it never exist a similar thing between them !  now you are comparing God to a human who breath what's wrong here ?! No God gived us the can of thinking and loving and choosing by ourselves if he let us !! And for you info's God gived us from his spirit  just to be alive that NEVER EVER mean that we are all God's but in a small intecity BE CARREFUL !!! it's important ! animals are not divine ( for example you want to  say that Pigs is divine such a disgusting animal who clean the floor pfffff please ! ) they are not alive they just have a "Primitiveness  " to follow but god said to It  Be So SHE IS not like you are putting us in a table of god's grades pfffff + there is never a perfect man and stop comparring Allah with a Human weak Human , Humans are imperfect they are weak and …..etc  + Human = body +soul if he have anothr thing in his soul he will not be a human he will be anouther thing so stop !

  199. Tnkuk says:

                   Hello Mr.Ali 🙂

        1- Muhammad didn't even want to know that trinity i don't know, because of that he was not interrested in this religion because he know the truth so why will he lose his time……-_-"  Example please ?!

        Muslims are not interrested too because we know the truth also new Muslims who convert to Islam and don't lie will never ever let islam just like all converted people because Islam is the truth 

       2- This word on the Quran (Q, 4: 171) is guided to the" People of the book" wich means All people who were there Christian Juwish All  people that knew that there is a Quran not Muhammed or Muslims it is guided to the Christians because they are only who say trinity i don't know 

       3- (Q, 5:116)  Jesus will need this "talk" in the end when Allah ask those who said " trinity …." to save themselves they will say HEEE SAY THAT HE IS A GOD  but Allah saved his prophet so he gived Jesus the chance to say that he is innocent + to make us sure that he is not a God + to inform us that Jesus was a prophet and he was a Beliver and a good man who did what Allah said ! + Allah know every thing because Allah is who tell Jesus what he say not Jesus say what he want like Muhammed 

  200. ihateislam says:

    Ali,
    This is beautiful. Thanks.

  201. SUMIT PAUL says:

    Trinity is a theological double Dutch which's interpolation to Christianity.  Whether it's the Advait of Adi Shankar or Vishistadvaitvad of Ramunujacharya, whole philosophy of religion (all religions, to be precise) is deliberately abstruse and intentionally unintelligible. Tell me, do these rubbish theories of Church and Brahmins get you two square meals? Can a hungry man's stomach be filled with religious shit of any religion? Religion is for those, who've not much to do in life. It benumbs the senses and makes us lesser human beings. Emancipate yourself of god and religion and live sans any damn denomination and otiose religious philosophies. I'd like to hear from Mr Sina on this score.

    SUMIT PAUL ([email protected]

  202. ihateislam says:

    Abeid Salim,
    I do not know any Christian who wastes a sleepless second wondering how many muhammadans will convert to Christianity. Both Christians and muhammadans believe that there will be Judgment Day which Muhammad was afraid of. That is when matters will be decided.
    I will rather worship a 'HUMAN GOD' than an ancient Arabian idol which has been brushed up with a different name.

  203. Supriya says:

    Dr. Sina
    Your blog reflects that you believe in Advaita vad (Non duality) philosophy of Hinduism.Advaita vad says it is the God that experiences his limitless potential to be anything by creating in his mind the physical reality including us humans and our experiences are God's experiences.
    In brief Advaita vad can be explained as Brahman= consciousness=God pervades everything,living and non living.

  204. Abeid Salim says:

    I did not know sina advertises christianity but slanders islam,just because you explained the trinity you think muslims will became christians.Their is a bigger chance of a muslim becoming an atheist than joining another religion especially a religion that worships a HUMAN GOD!!! That is unthinkable,many muslims would have become christians if jesus was a prophet not gods son as i dont need to remind you that shirk is the unforgiven sin in islam so christians can keep on dreaming if they think muslims will convert to their religion as personally i know many muslims who are more atheist and agnostic than christians including you ALI SINA!!!

  205. jamessmith says:

    Mr Sina,
    Your article is the greatest description of the Trinity I have ever read. I hope this clarifies for Muslims the misconceptions Muhammad had on the Trinity. All religions have their own way of connecting their god/s, god/s creation and the temporal and spirit world; for Christianity this is through the Trinity. All religions respect this diversity of spiritual belief and connection with god/s. It is only Islam which trashes the Trinity and then condemns Christians for their belief.
    Prior to reading your article, I related the Trinity to 'Mind, Body and Soul'. Thank you for enlightening me by explaining the Trinitarian connection of God's consciousness and his teachings through his Son.
    'O Trinity of love and power, Our brethren shield in danger's hour'

  206. Akshat says:

    Hi Ali,

    I am amazed to see the perfect example's you put. I feel  divinity in your words.  You emphasize much on reason so I want to to know something from you if you can reply. 

    I found myself on a dead end while i use reason.. I want to ask that ..   Is Reason alone enough to know the highest ? 

    The more I try to satisfy my curiosity with reason the more bigger it became just more consolidated.
    If you call my curiosity as water and my each question as separate cistern of water and I am a seeker who
    is living to know what the water is.. then use of  reason starts connecting those millions cisterns. Cisterns unite and take shape of ponds just fewer in numbers. Though number is reduced but water remains intact.. further use of reason turn pond's into lakes just more lesser in number.. lakes turn into bigger lakes.. may be bigger lakes will turn into one sea some day.. but will it answer what the water is ?

    Using reason I got the answer to my questions but higher questions arose every time.. In this process number of questions reduced to very few but  curiosity is intact as it was in the beginning. My reason never reduced a single ounce of  my curiosity,  it just consolidated curiosity which was  distributed initially and process still going on.

    Is there any end to it..can reason take one to  the highest truth..Please tell if you ever experienced oneness ever or only reason is driving you..

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