I Learned the Truth from the Quran
I was born into a moderately religious family. On my mother’s side I have a few relatives who are Ayatollahs. Although my grandfather (whom I never met) was somewhat a freethinker, we were believers. My parents were not fond of the mullahs. In fact, we did not have much to do with our more fundamentalist relatives. We liked to think of ourselves as believing in “true Islam,” not the one taught and practiced by the mullahs.
I recall discussing religion with the husband of one of my aunts when I was about 15 years old. He was a fanatical Muslim who was very concerned about the fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence). It prescribes the way Muslims should pray, fast, run their public and private lives, do business, clean themselves, use the toilet, how to urinate, and defacate and copulate. I argued these have nothing to do with the true Islam. I thought these things were fabricated by mullahs, and that excessive attention to fiqh diminishes the value of the pure message of Islam, which I believed is to unite man with his creator. This view is mostly inspired by Sufism. Many Iranians, thanks to Rumi’s poems, are to a great degree Sufi in their outlook.
Of course Sufism is not really peaceful. It is however more mystical than the real Islam that is utterly this worldly and unspiritual. However, it can be quite misleading.
In my early youth I noticed discrimination and cruelties against the members of religious minorities in Iran. This was more noticeable in provincial towns where the mullahs had a better grip over the gullible population.
Due to my father’s work we spent a few years in small towns out of the capital. One day our teacher announced that he would take the class swimming. A simple thing like that was a great treat to us, living in a third world country. We were excited and looked forward to it. In the class there were a couple of kids who were Baha’i and Jew. On the day we were ready to go swimming, out teacher told them they cannot come. He said they are not allowed to swim in the same pool with Muslims. I cannot forget those kids’ disappointment as they left school with tears in their eyes, subdued and heartbroken. At that age, maybe nine or ten, I could not make sense of things and was saddened by this injustice. I thought it was the kid’s fault for not being Muslims.
I believe I was lucky for having open-minded parents who encouraged me to think critically. They tried to instill in me the love of God and his messengers, yet upheld humanistic values like equality of rights between men and women, and love for all humankind. Now I know they did not know anything about the real Islam. In a sense, this was how most educated Iranian families were. In fact, the majority of Muslims believe Islam is a humanistic religion that respects human rights, elevates the status of women and protects their rights. Most Muslims believe that Islam means peace. Needless to say, few of them have read the Quran.
I spent my early youth in this idyllic paradise of ignorance, advocating the “true Islam” as I thought it should be, and criticizing the mullahs and their deviations from the real Islam. I idealized an Islam that conformed to my own humanistic values. My imaginary Islam was a beautiful religion. It was a religion of equality and peace. It was a religion that encouraged its followers to go after knowledge and to be inquisitive. It was a religion that was in harmony with science and reason. In fact, I was led to believe that the science got its inspiration from Islam, which eventually bore its fruit in the West and made modern discoveries and inventions possible. Islam, hence, was the real cause of modern civilization. The reason Muslims were living in such a miserable state of ignorance, I thought, was all the fault of the self-centered mullahs and religious leaders who for their own personal gain had misinterpreted the Islam. This is really how all Muslims think. They are unwilling to find any fault with Islam. They blame themselves and everyone else for everything that is wrong with their religion.
Muslims believe that the western civilization has its roots in Islam. They recall Middle Eastern scientific minds whose contributions to science have been crucial in the birth of modern science.
Omar Khayyam was a great mathematician who calculated the length of the year with a precision of .74% of a second. Zakaria Razi can very well be regarded as one of the first founders of empirical science who based his knowledge on research and experimentation. Avicenna’s monumental encyclopedia of medicine was taught in European universities for centuries. There are more great luminaries, who have “Islamic names,” who were the pioneers of modern science when Europe was languishing in the medieval Dark Ages. Like all Muslims, I believed all these great men were Muslims and that they were inspired by the hidden knowledge in the Quran; and that if today’s Muslims could regain the original purity of Islam, the long lost glorious days of Islam will return and Muslims will lead the world civilization once again.
Iran was a Muslim country, but it was also a corrupt country. The chance of getting into a good university was slim. Only one in ten applicants could get into the university. Often they were forced to choose subjects that they did not want to study because they could not get enough points for the subjects of their choice. Students with the right connections got the seats.
The standard of education in Iran was not ideal. Universities were under-funded, as the Shah preferred building a powerful military might to become the gendarme of the Middle East rather than build the infrastructure of the country and invest in people’s education. He was naturally distrustful of intellectuals. These were reasons why my father thought I would be better off to leave Iran to continue my education elsewhere.
We considered America and Europe, but my father, acting upon the counsel of a few of his religious friends, thought another Islamic country would be better for a 16 year old boy. We were told that in the west, morality is lax, the beaches are full of nudes, and they drink and have licentious lifestyles, all of which being harmful to a young man. So I was sent to Pakistan instead, where people were religious and moral. A friend of the family told us that Pakistan is just like England, except that it is cheaper.
This, of course, proved to be untrue. I found Pakistanis to be as immoral and corrupt as Iranians, if not more. Yes they were very religious. They did not eat pork and I saw no one consuming alcohol in public, but they lied, were hypocrites, were cruel to women, and above all, were filled with hatred of Indians. They were not moral at all. They were religious but not ethical.
In college, instead of taking Urdu I took Pakistani Culture to complete my A level FSc (Fellow of Science). I learned the reason for Pakistan’s partition from India and for the first time heard about Muhammad Ali Jinah, the man Pakistanis call Qaid-e A’zam, the great leader. He was presented as an intelligent man, the Father of the Nation, while Gandhi was spoken of in a derogatory way. Even then, I could not but side with Gandhi and condemn Jinah as an arrogant, ambitious man who was the culprit for breaking up a country and causing millions of deaths. You could say I always had a mind of my own and was a maverick in my thinking. No matter what I was taught, I always came to my own conclusion.
I did not see differences of religion as a valid reason for breaking up a country. The very word Pakistan was an insult to Indians. They called themselves pak (clean) to distinguish themselves from the Indians who were najis (unclean). Ironically, I never saw a people dirtier than the Pakistanis, both physically and mentally. It was disappointing to see another Islamic nation in such intellectual and moral bankruptcy.
In discussions with my friends I failed to convince them of the “true Islam.” I condemned their bigotry and fanaticism while they disapproved of me for my un-Islamic views. It took me many years and a lot of study to realize they were right about Islam and I was the ignorant one.
I reported all this to my father and decided to go to Italy for my university studies. In Italy people drink wine and eat pork, but I found them more hospitable, friendlier, and less hypocritical than Muslims. I noticed people were willing to help without expecting something in return. I met a lovely elderly couple, who invited me to have lunch with them on Sundays so I would not have to stay home alone. They did not want anything from me. They just wanted someone to love. I was almost a grandson to them. Only someone who has been a stranger in a new country can appreciate the value of the help and hospitality of the locals.
Their house was sparklingly clean with shiny marble floor. This contradicted what I had been told about non-Muslims. According to Islam the unbelievers are filthy and one should not befriend them. (Q.9:28) The Quran says, “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as awliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but awliya’ to one another…Q.5: 51
I had difficulty understanding the “wisdom” of such a verse. I wondered why I should not befriend these wonderful people who had no ulterior motive in showing me their hospitality than just making me feel at home. I thought they were “true Muslims” and I tried to raise the subject of religion hoping they would see the truth of Islam and embrace it. They were not interested and politely changed the subject. I was not stupid enough at any time in my life to believe that all non-believers will go to hell for not being Muslim. I read this in the Quran before but never wanted to think about it. I simply brushed it off or ignored it. Of course, I knew that God would be pleased if someone recognized his messenger but never thought he would actually be so cruel to burn people for eternity, just because they were not Muslim. But the Quran was clear:
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Q 3:85,
Despite that I paid little heed and tried to convince myself that the meaning of this verse and those similar to it is something other than what they appears to be. At that moment this was not a subject that I was ready to handle. So I did not think about it. Most Muslims live in this state of denial.
I hung around with my Muslim friends and noticed that most of them lived a very immoral life of double standards. Most of them found girlfriends and slept with them. That was very un-Islamic, or so I thought at that time. What bothered me most was the fact that they did not value these girls as real human beings who deserved respect. These girls were not Muslim and therefore were used and treated as object. This attitude was not general. Those who made less show of their religiosity were more respectful and sincere towards their western girlfriends and some even loved them and wanted to marry them. Paradoxically, those who were more religious were less faithful and more hypocritical.
In my mind the true Islam was whatever was right. If I thought something was immoral, unethical, dishonest or cruel, I thought it is un-Islamic. And vice versa, anything that was good, I attributed to Islam. This is how most Muslims think of Islam, but that is not Islam. At that time I was unable to see that Muslims are bad because of Islam.
Those who were more devout were more immoral. The ones who defended Islam more vehemently were the ones who led impious lives. They would lose their temper and start a fight if someone said a word against Islam.
Once I befriended a young Iranian man at the university restaurant and introduced him to two other Muslim friends of mine. We were all about the same age. He was erudite, virtuous and wise. We used to wait for him and sit next to him during lunch hour, and we always learned something from him. We used to eat a lot of spaghetti and risotto and craved a good Persian ghorme sabzi and chelow. Our friend said his mother had sent him some dried vegetables and invited us to his house the next Sunday for lunch. We found his two-room apartment clean. He made us a delicious ghorme sabzi which we ate with gusto and then sat back chatting and sipping tea. It was then that we noticed his Baha’i books. When we asked about them, he said he was a Baha’i.
On the way home my two friends said they did not wish to continue their friendship with him. I was surprised and asked why. They said that being a Baha’i makes him najis and had they known he was a Baha’i, they would not have befriended him. I was puzzled and enquired why they thought he was najis if we all were complementing him on his cleanliness. We all agreed he was a morally superior man than the Muslims we knew, so why this sudden change of heart? They said the name itself had something in it that made them dislike this religion. They asked me if I knew why everyone disliked the Baha’is. I told them I didn’t know why others don’t like the Baha’is. Baha means glory. Nothing wrong with that! And that I liked everyone. I asked them since they disliked the Baha’is, perhaps they should explain their reasons. They did not know why! This man was the first Baha’i they knew this well, and he was an exemplary man. I wanted to know the reason for their dislike. There was no particular reason, they said. It’s just they know that Baha’is are bad.
I am happy I did not continue my friendship with these two bigots. From them I learned how prejudice is formed and operates. Later I realized that the prejudice and the hatred that Muslims harbor against almost all non-Muslims is because the Quran instills them in their minds.
Those who go to the mosques and listen to the sermons of the mullahs are affected. There are many verses in the Quran that call the believers to hate the non-believers, fight them, subdue them, humiliate them, chop off their heads and limbs, crucify them, and kill them wherever they find them.
I left the religion on the backburner for several years. My faith had not been diminished, but I had so much to do that I did not have time for religion. Meanwhile, I learned about democracy, human rights, equality, freedom of speech and other things that made the western world become what it is. I liked what I learned. Did I pray? Whenever, I could, but not regularly. After all, I was living and working in a Western country and did not want to look too different.
One day, I decided that it was time for me to deepen my knowledge of Islam and read the Quran from cover to cover. I found an Arabic copy of the Quran with an English translation and used also my own Persian translation. Previously, I read only bits and pieces of the Quran. This time I read all of it. I would read a verse in Arabic; then I’d read its English and Persian translations; then read again the Arabic verse, and did not read the next verse until I understood the Arabic.
It didn’t take long before I came upon verses I found hard to accept. One of these verses was, “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.” 4:48
I found it hard to believe that Gandhi would burn in hell forever because he was a polytheist with no hope of redemption, whereas Muslim murderer could hope to receive Allah’s forgiveness. This raised the question, why is Allah so desperate to be known as the only god? If there are no other gods but him, what is the fuss? Why should he even care whether anyone knows him and praises him or not?
That sounded quite petty. Let us say a husband is jealous and says to his wife if you look at other men I will beat you. Now that is quite pathetic. But let us say the couple lives in an island where there are no men except the husband. Wouldn’t it be insane if the husband express jealousy for men who do not exist? If there is no other god but Allah why is he so paranoid? Allah did not seem to be quite a stable god. The Islamic shihadah, there is no god but Allah, started to sound silly. If Allah knows there is no other god but him why is he so obsessed about it?
I learned about the size of this universe. Light that travels at a speed of 300,000 kilometers per second takes 40 billion years to reach us from galaxies that are at the edges of the visible universe. The visible universe could be a speck in comparison to the actual size of the universe. How many trillions of galaxies are out there? Each one of these galaxies contains hundreds of billions of stars? Each star has a dozen of planets. The universe is so big. Why is Allah so concerned about whether he is worshipped by insignificant creatures on this tiny planet?
Now that I had lived in the West, had many western friends who had opened their hearts and homes to me, and accepted me as their friend, it was hard to accept that Allah did not want me to befriend them. “Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah (Q3:28). Isn’t Allah the creator of the unbelievers too? Isn’t he the god of everybody? Why he should be so unkind to his own creation? Wouldn’t it be better if Muslims befriended the unbelievers and taught them Islam by good examples? By keeping ourselves aloof and distant from others, the gap of misunderstandings will never be bridged. How in the world will the unbelievers learn about Islam if we don’t associate with them? These were the questions I kept asking myself. At the same time I was reading verses such as “slay them wherever ye catch them.” (Q 2:191) That sounded mad. Am I wiser that Allah? Sure it looked like it. Slay them wherever you find them is stupid, no matter who says it. Are these the words of God or are they falsely attributed to him? That was a question kept popping up in my mind as I read the Quran.
I thought of my own friends, remembering their kindnesses and love for me, and wondered how in the world a true god would ask anyone to kill another human being just because he does not believe. Yet this concept was repeated so often in the Quran that there was no doubt about it. In verse 8:65, Allah tells his prophet, “O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers.”
I wondered why Allah would send a messenger to make war. Shouldn’t God teach us to love each other and be tolerant of one another? If Allah were so concerned about being worshipped to the extent that he would kill them and burn them if they don’t believe, why would he not kill them himself? Why does he ask us to do his dirty work? Are we Allah’s henchmen and gangsters?
Although I knew of Jihad and never thought about its implication, I found it hard to accept that God would resort to imposing such violent measures on people. What was more shocking was the cruelty of Allah in dealing with the unbelievers:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them.” 8:12
It seemed that Allah was not just satisfied with killing the unbelievers; he enjoyed torturing them before killing them. But at the same time he was incapable of inflicting any harm on anyone and relied on Muslims to do his dirty work for him. Smiting people’s heads from above their necks and chopping their fingertips? Are these divine attributes? Would God really give such orders? And yet the worst is what he promised to do with the unbelievers in the other world:
These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), “Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!” 22:19-22
How could the creator of this universe be so cruel? I was shocked to learn that the Quran tells Muslims to:
– kill unbelievers wherever they find them (Q.2:191),
– murder them and treat them harshly (Q.9:123),
– fight them, (Q.8:65),until no other religion than Islam is left (Q.2:193)
– humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax if they are Christians or Jews, (Q.9:29)
– slay them if they are Pagans (Q.9:5), crucify, or cut off their hands and feet,
– expel them from the land in disgrace. And as if this were not enough, “they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter” (Q.5:34),
– not befriend their own fathers or brothers if they are not believers (Q.9:23), (Q.3:28),
– kill their own family in the battles of Badr and Uhud and asks Muslims to “strive against the unbelievers with great endeavor” (Q.25:52),
– be stern with them because they belong to hell (Q.66:9), etc, etc.
How can any sensible person remain unmoved when reading the Quran that says: “strike off the heads of the unbelievers” then after a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives” (Q.47:4).
I was also did not like it when I learned the Quran denies the freedom of belief for all and clearly states that Islam is the only acceptable religion (Q.3:85). It sounded petty to for the creator of the world to burn people for disbelief (Q.5:11), call them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q.9:28) and say they will be forced to drink boiling water (Q.14:17).
But there is no end to Allah’s sadism. He promises, “As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods” (Q.22:9).
As I read more, I came to see that everything wrong with Islam is because of the Quran. The vicious mullahs that foam their mouths and spew hate are not misguided. They are good Muslims doing what Muhammad told them to do. It was I who was ignorant.
The book of Allah says women are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to beat them (Q.4:34); the women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (Q.66:10); that men are superior to women (Q.2:228) and women don’t have equal right to their inheritance (Q.4:11-12). According to the Quran women are imbeciles whose testimony alone cannot be admissible in court (Q.2:282). A woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness, which of course is a joke. Rapists don’t rape in the presence of witnesses. But the most shocking verse is where Allah allows Muslims to rape women captured in wars even if they are married (Q.4:24 and 4:3).
When I read the biography of Muhammad I learned that he raped the prettiest women he captured in his raids on the same day he killed their husbands. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they called them kafir and raped their women. Pakistani soldiers raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 and massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in the Islamic regime of Iran rape the women before killing. They are accused of being apostates and the enemies of Allah for opposing the regime. That is exactly what Muhammad did. Anyone who opposed him was deemed as opposing God and his blood was halal.
The whole Quran is full of verses that teach killing of unbelievers and how Allah would torture them after they die. There are no lessons on morality, justice, honesty, or love in that book. The only message of the Quran is to believe in Allah and his messenger. The Quran coaxes people with celestial rewards of unlimited sex with fair whores in paradise and threatens with blazing fires of hell those who disbelieve.
When the Quran speaks of righteousness, it does not mean righteousness in the sense that we know it. Righteousness means doing what Muhammad said and did, which was far from being righteous.
A Muslim can be a killer and yet be a righteous person. Good actions in the sense that we generally understand them are secondary. In fact they are unimportant altogether. The belief in Allah and his messenger are the ultimate purpose of a person’s life.
After reading the Quran I became greatly depressed. This book is evil and I had a hard time to believe in so much evilness. I am naturally moved by love. Violence is repulsive to me. At first I denied my understanding of what I was reading and searched for esoteric meanings to these evil verses of the Quran that constituted most of it. My efforts were in vain. There was no misunderstanding! The Quran was overwhelmingly inhumane. It also contained a lot of scientific heresies and absurdities, but they were not what impacted most. It was the sheer violence of this book that really shook the foundation of my belief.
Using both English and Persian translations as my guide, I also noticed that the English translation is not accurate. The translator had tried his best to hide the harshness and asininity of the Quran, twisting the meaning of the words and inserting his own sugarcoated explanations in parenthesis. I checked other English translations and all of them are deceptively soft and sugary. Obviously the translators were aware that their work will be read by non-Muslims and did their best to deceive them. The Persian translator of the Quran did not seem to be bound by such constraints and has retained is pristine evilness.
Powerful story. I did not realize the Quran had so many verses on killing non believers. I got the Quran as a gift from my ex boyfriend, I only scan through the book. I am glad you realize learn about the real truth in the Quran.
I admire your fortitude! You got the true meaning from it, as I can see. I call it the war-manual (or criminal's code). It is easier to read, and makes more sense, if read in chronological order. (Bill Warner sells one, or you can get the correct sequence from the web.
This makes the gradual transition from lowly prophet to treacherous war-lord , of tolerant and peaceful, to spreading Islam by the sword, cutting down swathes of Jews and Christians, into a much more flowing story, as the tenor of the verses rises from a gentle whisper to a roaring "Alluhah Akhbar".
The reason For switching to Christianity http://youtu.be/_APnsOMnK4U
Why I'm a Christian and no longer a Muslim http://youtu.be/_APnsOMnK4U
as an observer with no bias and no experiences with Muslims, I decided to read the Quran PROPERLY and in its entirety. I have to say that there is little room for interpretating this book other than as a manual for stealth war against anyone who doesn't believe in Allah* There simply is no other way for one to interpretate this unless you are seriously deranged and messed up. End of story
“A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it.” – David Stevens
“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” – Delos B. McKown
Oves, we have all learned from the founder of islam himself, his 'progeny', the rightful successors and 'holy imams'. All of them have conveyed the same message, either by actions or utterances. That message is unmistakably clear: ISLAM IS NOT PEACEFUL. It encourages and thrives on violence. Whatever you call" humanitarian values which were upheld by the founders" were restricted to the muhammadan believers. Others,if allowed to be seen, were not allowed to be heard. In fact, the presence of the non muhammadan is a constant source of irritation to the muhammadan. If you truly believe in your assertion, then explain why it is necessary to divide the world into two: the house of islam and the house of war. How humanitarian is war?Explain further why some islamic communities do not allow adherents of other faiths to worship freely or build their places of worship. Throughout history islam has been associated with stirring up conflicts, killing, destruction and plunder. There is no exaggeration in this. But being a muhammadan, you will seek justification for them.
Every muhammadan believes that the quran is not immutable. It remains the same and cannot change. When you now say that the meaning of some verses can change depending on the circumstance, you are contradicting the core belief of islam. You are, in effect, saying that the quran is not relevant for all time as some verses should be discarded. Which are these irrelevant verses? Without a doubt, you will point to the violence verses. But even contemporary scholars hold that those verses apply to current situations. Read their speeches, including those of Ayatollah Khomeini and his successors in Teheran and you will realize your mistake. The exegesis of the quran on the violence verses do not support your position. What they say are in tandem with the expressions of the Iranian mullahs.
There is always a rush to refer to the so-called peaceful verse of the quran which says that there is no compulsion in religion. By so doing, you conveniently ignore more than 100 verses which proclaim death on those who disbelieve allah and its prophet. You also ignore the verses which pronounce death on the apostate for having abandoned 'his deen'. Muhammadan scholars are unanimous that the verse of the sword has abrogated any peaceful verse which was, however, 'revealed' when the muslims were numerically weak. From the way you are sounding, there is a tendency for one to believe that you are resident in the West where you feel ashame of all the violence brought about daily in the name of isalm. Even there in the West the interpretation of the violence verses remains the same. Why does an apostate go into hiding once he/she recants from islam. Sometime ago, there was an article in a prestigious law review in the US where the writer said that apostasy remains an uncompromising issue.
It is evident that the person who has jumped to conclusions is your good self. You have not taken time to study the speeches and actions of your 'prophet' and his followers. It is strongly recommended that you should do so. Then will you come to the inevitable conclusion that islam was not, is not and will never be a religion of peace. Your prophet even unleashed violence on his own followers when he ordered that the mosque at Dhu Anwan be burnt down with the worshipers whom he called 'unjust people'. If his own followers were treated that way, what compunction would his successors have not to met out worse treatment to the unbelievers who, to them, are the vilest creatures before allah? The order to hate what allah and his prophet hated has not been changed. If anything, it is being reinforced.
MUHAMMADANISM IS THE PROBLEM OF THE WORLD.
"Hello First of all you should learn Islam from its founders (Holy Prophet peace be upon him and his progeny"
I am your prophet's progeny and I learned Islam from the Quran, the Sira and the hadith. Whatever I say is backed by evidence from the Islamic sources.
Hello
First of all you should learn Islam from its founders (Holy Prophet peace be upon him and his progeny and his rightful successors, Holy Imams peace be upon them) rather than muslims). The founders have very clearly upheld humanitarian values during their lives. Please see proper books rather than just going by the majority as majority is no criteria for being correct.
Also I feel u have just read the translations of the Quran, while as it is just common sense that meaning of the written text can be completely different in different situations. So for that purpose u need to read the exegesis of the Holy Quran as well rather than jumping to conclusions by reading only the translations. For example there is a verse in the Quran which states to kill the Jews but pls read under what circumstances that order was given. Will u allow anybody to come to ur home and kill ur family members? Pls note by this I am not implying about todays world. Also I find it foolish of u to have completely over looked the Surah Kaferoon which states that You be on your religion and I'll be on my religion/ Another verse states that 'there is no force in the religion'
There I strongly recommend u to learn Islam from the Holy Prophet and please dont jump to conclusions.
Islam was and is and always will be a religion of peace.
Salman, have you not heard that on the night Muhammad captured Safiyya, he took her to bed while the decapitated body of her husband, Kinana, was still left to be devoured by the birds and beasts? One of Muhammad's followers was so concerned about his safety that he(follower) decided to sleep outside Muhammad's tent. When he discovered this in the morning, he asked the follower why he behaved in such a way to which the follower replied that having killed the woman's male relatives, distributed her female relatives as sex slaves and slain her husband, he was afraid that Safiyya may have wanted to seek revenge. There were other instances of similar behaviour. It is either you are ignorant or simply being a hypocrite.
"When I read the biography of Muhammad I learned that he raped the prettiest women he captured in his raids on the same day he killed their husbands."
can you give me reference to this comment you made?? thank you.
ISLAM=Stupid, Lazy, Rubbish, Problem, Lie, Barbarian, Dirty, Ugly, Noisy, Crazy, Oppress, Violent, Behead, Horror, War, Boom, Politic, Womanizing, Pedophilia, Polygamy, Fanatic, Evil, Terrorist
Good production values and an interesting and inspiring perspective on presenting the message. At first I didn't like the strident method of presentation, but after seeing the ending, I can appreciate it as a production decision to inspire the confidence to win that we need in overcoming Islam and other enemies.
"We don't head out to war to lose. We head out to war to win."
watch this video on love and power of God. http://www.youtube.com/user/capotasto1?feature=mh…
"It is claimed that religious unity is also a factor in the formation of nations. Whereas, we see the contrary in the Turkish nation. Turks were a great nation even before they adopted Islam. This religion did not help the Arabs, Iranians, Egyptians and others to unite with Turks to form a nation. Conversely, it weakened the Turks’ national relations; it numbed Turkish national feelings and enthusiasm. This was natural, because Mohammedanism was based on Arab nationalism above all nationalities"
Yurttaslik Bilgileri, Yenigun Haber Ajansi (1997 edition) p. 18
Islam, Immoral Theology of a Sick Arab
Monday, 19 December 2011 05:55 Ali Khalaf = That is what the great Attaturk, father of the Turkish republic had said about islam over 80 years ago. Although he had no training in Neurology but now the modern Neurologists agree with his diagnosis that Mohammad was a sick arab and that his sickness resulted in islam……………….from Islam watch.
When will this happen is what is expected, if Muslims do not shun Islam so that they will not exist to pose threat to peace and survival of humanity.
Hassan,
As Ali Sina rightly said in one of his articles, Shiite Islam is a lie within a lie.
JSOP……" read , learn and study " with an open mind, Dr. Ali Sina's book, " understanding Muhammad " n alisina.org. !
That's a tall order, but I suppose possible with the Sunni in charge in Pakistan. But Iraqi Sunnis cannot kill enough Shia with the bomb, so it would mean genocide of the Sunnis for sure. And neither side can kill enough Muslims for peace to reign. Collapsing Islam from within is the best solution. Otherwise it will take conventional war to end this.
Of course that's the goal of this site, but it's hard to get those Muslims to read the book!
I guess they haven't seen Mary Poppins:
"Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down…" 😮
Haha! Great advice Scrutator! Small bombs work for the Shias to scare the Sunnis out of Iraq, but it doesn't work for the Sunnis because they only make the Shias madder!
THE ALTERNATIVE TO BOMBINGS
The alternative to the above gruesome advice is to employ the "mother of all nukes" — Understanding Muhammad and Muslims by Dr Ali Sina !
This book should be made required reading for everyone in Iraq — Shia, Sunni, Armenian, Christian, agnostics, atheists, non-muslims etc.
This 'mother of all nukes' would not only reduce Shia muslim numbers but would do the same to Sunni muslim numbers ! …… the overall muslim numbers could come down by 90% !!!
THINK ABOUT IT.
ADVICE TO SUNNIS IN IRAQ
Everin, perhaps killing Shias periodically is the Sunni way in achieving the slight Shia majority in Iraq to wither away ! But, occasional bombing using crude small bombs wouldn't do the job ! What Sunnis need are a few nuclear bombs and detonate them in areas of high Shia majority ! That should have the desired effect !!
The nuke bombs are obtainable from Pakistan, N. Korea and even Russia, provided the right back-hander is paid !!!
More self-righteous judgement and ad hominem from you? A leopard never changes its spots.
"Also read about is Buddha a Prophet of Islam"
From this alone, I know what kind of level you have.
Now, let the proof slip especially from the Quran itself. You have been proven lying so many times so don't do it again. Muhammad should do Buddha like teaching and reaction so that he could avoid bloodshed.
What next? Muhammad in the bible? Pharaoh found? Fingerprint? Song of Solomon? Hearing azan on the moon? What? Nothing new here, kid. All is refuted.
"A Muslim is a Muslim all the infighting, calling rival sects shirk, innovation and none Muslim is not the answer"
Tell that to Hassan and other muslims who actually call them like that. 😉
This is what happened if stupid reply keeps coming. I did ask simple thing, proof and true translation. If you can only complain without solving the problem you'll have negative response. I also asked you to answer the query unrelated to arabic and here we are, the master of complaint did it again.
I challenge muslims to do this.
That's it? Your post doesn't mean anything to someone who actually knows how to think rationally.
Are we having a "claim" day here? For your own record, the complexity of Arabic itself contradicts Quranic claim. I did ask you not to rely merely on language but alas …
All I need is logical answer, true translation and proof. Arabic is insignificant as reputed scholars have dealt with that and it has nothing to do with my queries. Don't tell me the translation of "one god" is wrong, ops.
A shia had just said that sunni is wrong. Just a random example and you are proven wrong again, JSOP. That's easy. 😉
Hmmm, sunni is wrong then? All you have to do is to prove it.
Quran is wrong because I had shown it. I did mention a verse about it, Q 23:14. That's just one. Now, you haven't answered on "their lord" thingy. 😉
Being a liar is despicable you know. http://alisina.org/i-learned-the-truth-from-the-q…
You wrote, “You claim I do not care ?”
I only showed what you had done, nothing more. I know you misunderstand me again, just watch, kid.
You wrote, “Did I say it was right what extremist Muslims do or any violence or aggression is right”
For a cherry picker, you are doing great. Now, go back again on what I had said and quote it. In there, you will know why I call you that. I didn’t say “you are in line with extremist”, kid. I never say anything about “extremist” in the first place. Quote it, liar.
If you read mine on http://alisina.org/i-learned-the-truth-from-the-q…
You wouldn't have said it.
You wrote, “The Answer is No”
The answer is yes if you read it properly.
You wrote, “Violence against Muslims for being Muslims”
Quote it, liar. From this alone I know you are a liar.
You wrote, “Deporting Muslims for being Muslims.”
Another lie. Such a despicable liar you are.
You wrote, “Banning the Quran”
Although I didn’t say it I agree because I’m against Islam and the poof I presented is avoided by you, the coward.
This time I’ll mark your words, “You and others on this site have justified” so that you can’t run again.
You wrote, “Force removal of the face covering”
When did I say this, liar? Quote it please. You omit lie after lie about me so it’s no wonder you lie about Islam.
You wrote, ”Have a nerve calling me hateful and not caring look at the militant behaviour many justify against Muslims who have not committed any crime”
For a liar, you have the nerve to accuse me being one. That’s why I call you many defect qualities human have. Do you know that Islam is the seed for muslim to be recruited by “radicals” in my country? Do you know that terrorists are easily hidden in muslim society?
You wrote, “Hating Muslims for being Muslims”
Wrong, hating muslim for following Muhammad. You hate me from merely criticizing Islam.
You wrote, “Stating if they Believe in the Quran, Sunnah and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
Any abuse against them is right and justified.”
Sure, because if they do that sources fully they will be harsh on believers and impose Islam on the rest of the world, creating discrimination and violence as I’ve seen from certain Islamic groups in my country and general law made by authorities. Your job is to prove that Muhammad was innocent. If they are just hypocrite muslims then there is no problem but hypocrites are cursed in the Quran.
For your info, I already dislike Islam before I know Sina’s site. Why was that? It’s because the behavior. When I read Islam I knew where their behavior came from.
You wrote, “Double standard or is it different if it is against a Muslim”
Pure fact from reliable source, kid. I’m no gullible person like westerner who lives in western world living in multiculturalism.
You wrote, “It is a very good thing there are many Muslims, None Muslims,Human right and Civil rights groups that will not allow this hatred”
Wrong, politic is the one making them like that. It’s funny that the hatred of Quran and hadith is allowed to be practiced freely not to mention that Islam doesn’t know human rights. It’s like, the present hatred is not ok but the past is ok as if the present doesn’t have any reason. That’s cherry picking.
Politic can also make muslim appease non muslims and seek “friendship” despite the fact that Allah didn’t allow it.
You wrote, “You can all try and pass off your false ''truth'' but you will not succeed”
Yeah, anything you say will come true by just saying it. I know child do that. You can try to deny all you want but that won’t change anything. Multiculturalism has been shown to be failed when Islam comes.
You wrote, “As you can see it does not say just kill the unbelievers for not being Muslims it is talking about those violating peace in war ect”
It says that unbelievers must be converted and if refused, attack them until they repent. You have to read the history from day 1 to know that. Muhammad only allowed people of the book to live as dhimmi and as for other non muslims, they have to convert or die, just like pagan. I know this is classic excuse for “war” and I’ve done that too. Muhammad was the culprit of the war.
Being a pagan, you have convert or die and being people of the book, you have to submit to muslims and pay jizya. So, for you statement, yes, it’s bad just for being non muslims. See Arabia now to know that.
You wrote, “This is twisting and manipulating the text to say one thing yet the real text means something altogether”
Nope, you are the one who twisted it, ignoring context and history. The text says it clearly and you don’t. Like I said before, do you think I don’t know this?
You wrote, “You seem to not grasp what many Muslims,None Muslims and Myself are saying and resort to names put downs and fail analyst of the person”
Subjective statement as I can do the same. What you say about me is clear, it is hypocrisy, cowardice, lie, double standard and repetitive. You keep misquoting and misunderstanding me. I have proven that even with my own quote. Where is your proof? I don’t ask any childish complain, you know.
Here’s the flow:
You claimed “verse before and after”, I told you that it wasn’t the thing I said and proved it with links but you repeated it again and claimed I didn’t know anything. You refused to read what “I actually said” keep accusing me for your own behavior. What should I call you?
You wrote, “Again you claim Shia and Sufi as being wrong without studying there text in Arabic you claim wrong without even studying anything about them.”
Kid, if you don’t know how to read then ask, don’t your own words into my mouth. I didn’t say in the sense of mere claim that shia and sufi are wrong, I said, “they were strayed off the path from the legal sources”. Now, you have to prove that they aren’t.
Now, this will be simple if you read my post about the probability of them being wrong. Since sects have different faith then it would be stupid to say that they are all right. One of them and both of them could be wrong. There are no 2 truths.
Reading Arabic from their own sources? How can you tell people to read about sects using their own sources? That’s not a logical thing to do.
Dude, Arabic is just a language which can be manipulated.
You wrote, “Haters are going to hate you have already made up your mind Islam is wrong without even studying about Islam or learning Arabic”
I did study it and found out that the one who claims me wrong can’t even answer me. Haters are going to hate? What kind of statement is that? Hatred doesn’t come from nowhere, silly.
You wrote, “Bias”
Know the meaning before you write it and check yourself. I’ve done this bias thingy too. You are a perfect example of biased person not to mention that you want to blur everything. Did Muhammad blur religion?
You wrote, “Before you call one a name such as a Liar or Hypocrite look to your self and your own posts”
Before you protest about it why don’t you read the reason behind it? Look at yourself and prove me wrong. If you want to play classic game of “you too” then prove it, don’t just claim it. I’ve done it but where is yours, kid?
Come on again, kid. I gave you links so that you can understand my issue here. I made it clear that I don’t even play the game of “half and real quote”. If you just quote it without context and history these 2 things are just the same. Why are you avoiding me, eh? You keep using someone’s work to attack me while I never talk about it. Can I call you stupid? If not then what should I call you for this blatant stupidity?
You wrote, “Pointed out in many post and from the Quran that aggression is not justified many other none Muslims have also.”
Pointed out many posts, which you’ve avoided despite the fact that I’d given the links to you about the war and violence that is justified as long as it is for Allah.
From the Quran? Dear oh dear, do you mean from the cut out verses suited to your own view? You never see any big picture so don’t try to say “from the Quran”. That’s half truth.
You wrote, “Not denial many have pointed out that what you and others say is wrong you can claim to know and be a expect but your posts show you are not”
That’s just denial and I’ve proven it. Many have pointed that you are wrong and other muslims are wrong. You claim to know it like the expert but you avoid my queries.
You wrote, “If you just see this half quote for example (9:5) ''fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)''
If you just saw the link I gave you would see that I already explained that thing completely. That verse is an attacking verse to force pagan to leave their faith after Muhammad felt strong. Pagan didn’t want to attack anyone and didn’t want to be disturbed. Muhammad, on the contrary, wanted to destroy their faith and conquer Mecca for Islam. Read my queries and know that treaty was broken by Muhammad and the raid was also done by him. The war was started by him and the blood was started by him. This is why you just run from me. We will have no peace with Islam because of this.
Why do you keep dwelling on something I don’t even say?
You wrote, “You will come to a different conclusion if you saw the entire quote”
How can you claim that when all this time I quote it entirely, greater than yours? How can you claim this stupid thing and at the same time refuse to read “what I really have in mind”? I can easily do that to Bible, you know.
You wrote, “Entire Quote [9:4-5] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make.”
Wrong, Muhammad violated it and the links I gave already talked about this. The treaty is temporary because Muhammad broke it himself as situation changed. Muhammad also couldn’t be trusted because he could annul oath anytime he wanted.
The problem is: why there was a treaty in the first place? Who was on attacking stance? Who had created this bloodshed in the first place? This doesn’t erase the “killing and slaying” because Muhammad could attack anyone with any justification. I did explain it. Is it so hard to read the links?
You wrote, “Funny seeing some who do not even bother to try and learn Arabic, History and Read the Quran and start claiming to be an expect”
Nope, it’s funny to see a person who keeps adamantly pushing the blatant falsehood of his own argument, cherry picking and repeating things for the sake of replying. Learning Arabic was not necessary because we already have scholars who have all the requirements to do the job, beside, you forgot that all religious impression and event we have today in many people are not the product of “knowing original language”. They are named scholars because they do that and they got reputation because they are reliable. Attacking me is the same with attacking these scholars and for your info, you are attacking reliable people and the number is not few. They are expert and I use their work, so my material is an “expert”. How many times do you attack your opponent personally like this? How can a person who claim to know it better than these scholars, can’t even answer one of my queries.
Like I told you, Arabic doesn’t even have any significance when dealing with the falsehood of Islam because all things are clear through logic, rational thinking, translated works by scholars and example of muslim’s deed. Muslims, who have authority, surely know Arabic and they just do what translation and interpretation explain. If you have any objection then you should prove them wrong, not me. It wasn’t me who wrote that women is lower than men, it wasn’t me who brought unfair and barbaric law, it wasn’t me who make war for Allah and of course, it wasn’t me who wrote that unbeliever is unclean and will go to hell. Don’t tell me this is wrong. Arabic is also changed and not the same with the one Muhammad used so learning a modern Arabic is not a good direction.
Talking about history, I did ask you to answer my queries about it. Where is your answer?
I did explain about how this Arabic excuse is actually proving that Islam is man made because of its own claim. I see you didn’t even try to respond it.
You wrote, “Telling Muslims they are wrong and when Muslims do not agree and point out that is not right ect Many on this site just call them names justify violence, call Allah the Devil and state lies about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the Quran and claim to know what the Quran really says and they speak for the Muslims”
I don’t just tell you wrong but I prove it. The sentence suits you more than me because you can only “tell” me wrong but never prove it. You don’t even care as to why I disagree with you and I know why you disagree with me. Many? How many? Can you count the total visitor and commenter to know that? I did ask you this and you just repeated it again. You love to make unclear, generalized statement and no one will buy it.
Allah the devil? Allah is the boss of the devil because Allah had created them and the devil was actually against shirk if you read it. Devil is god’s creation after all. You, as a hypocrite, don’t have the right to complain before you check Allah and Muhammad’s similar remark. This is just stupid repetition.
Muhammad did lie, silly and I’d proven it. Read my queries and aorta thingy. I know no muslim wants to discuss that.
We don’t claim to know, we prove it and judging from the fact that you can’t refute it then what should I call you? We speak for Muhammad and the real muslim who had already done and proven it through real act.
Come on, read correctly this time. I’d explained it so many times and yet, you could only repeat and ignore. Before you teach anyone how to talk properly, use logic or respond correctly, you should teach yourself.
You wrote, “What about those saying Slay and kill when in fact it was meaning mortal combat those stating half a sentence and making a meaning out of half a sentence out of an entire Surah to back up there very flawed logic”
I gave you links of my comment, didn’t I? Do I need to repeat that “I don’t play half quote and real quote based on verses before and after”? When someone gave you details about something what would you do usually? Ignore it, read but deny it, or what?
In order to know this you have to see from the very beginning of Muhammad’s history. What he had done to the Meccan initially? Where was him at that time? “Killing and slaying unbeliever wherever you find them” was not the core problem of this issue. What you have to see are:
1. Why did he say that?
2. Why did it happen?
3. Who created the conflict in the first time?
4. Who did refuse to make peace and end the “war of faith”?
5. What was the condition of both parties?
With Muhammad’s view of “justice and righteousness” you will always be faced with “killing and slaying” in the name of Allah. Note that Muhammad was never on defensive position. He was never attacked literally. Muhammad was never in situation where he got attacked suddenly without warning, cause, and reason. Read my queries first before you repeat it. If you read it you would know the issue I raise and that’s irrelevant with your post here.
The real problem is located on “why” instead of “what”. You protested about the “verse before and after” and claimed that “combat” is the answer while my queries deal with “combat” as the real problem. When you have problem in the first phase the rest of it will be worse.
You wrote, “Did I say all were political and had and had a religious axe to grind? The answer is no I was saying there are many that do and you should learn Arabic and compare them and you will see what I mean”
Did you say what you say? Yes. Did you misunderstand me? Yes. Let’s quote it:
“I assume you know that kind of translation or you just brand all translations which don’t agree with you as “political”?
Read the sentence carefully, word by word, and think. I know you have a hard time processing mine but take it a while and be patient.
And see your own statement:
“find an English Quran translation which does not have a religious or political axe to grind.”
The Quran itself is both religious and political and you are here to defend the “human side” which is political. You actually had shot yourself by declaring a neutral English translation which doesn’t have “religious” agenda. What kind of religion got translated by its own believer without religious agenda? Quran itself was initially made for religious agenda, let alone political so “religious part” is inseparable from this motive. You translated it neutrally and it still had religious agenda because it is a religion, duh.
If you wanted to say that “religious agenda” is actually some kind of “corruption” then it was actually not religious but made for personal gain and that’s political in the eyes of Allah. You are contradicting yourself here, if you know what I mean.
Now, I did ask you to provide the “true” translation, didn’t I? I didn’t ask any stupid comment such as “did I say blah, blah, blah”. Why do you always fail to see the main point?
John K said :''Not warranted in Islam?!?! Wake up Muslim!!! These people are following the perfect example of their prophet and Holy Quran!!!''
Read,learn and study
Look to yourself before others
Using the actions of a few Extremist Muslims to justify your bias hatred for Islam, warranting violence, deporting and banning of the Quran
Claim to know about Islam is yet you do not by your posts
Very hate filled for a Mormon (Most are not like this and are respectful of different religions just like other religions)
-JSOP
Not warranted in Islam?!?! Wake up Muslim!!! These people are following the perfect example of their prophet and Holy Quran!!!
You better hope you leave Islam before you die if you don't want to burn in hell.
Exactly! Muslims never have good qualifications because their culture is not academically oriented. They only value learning the Quran and how to be good bullies.
Yeah, we know. And Alexander Graham Bellski invented the telephone.
That's exactly it Charlee. Islam only survives by enforcement. Someone wants to leave Islam? Kill him.
Someone doesn't like Islam? Kill him.
Who cares about your stupid Arabic. You obviously have never studied languages, translating, or linguistics. Get a life.
Right Charlee. Muhammad's violence won in large sections of the world that are controlled by Muslims. Don't judge Islam by its behavior where Western Civilization is in control. Judge Islam by its behavior where Islam is in control.
Read and learn is all we are saying. Get a REAL education before you come here and spout your infantile nonsense.
What's wrong? Can't take your own medicine? You've been name-calling since the first day you came to this site.
Your posts discredit themselves. People are just doing you the favor of explaining it to you.
You need to come into the modern age and stop using Quranic Logic. Take a course in real logic instead:
Logic
The Koran advances a logical system. Truth is determined by revelation. No fact or argument may refute the Koran. Logical persuasion is based upon repetition and continued assertion. Another part of the persuasion is personal attacks against those who resist Islam. The Koran advances its argument through threats against specific people and groups. If persuasion fails, then force may be used to settle the logical or political argument.
Another aspect of Koranic logic is the use of name-calling and personal insults to advance the truth. The Koran, with its poetical language and repeated threats and physical violence, bases its logic on emotions. Although its intellectual truth can be contradictory, the contradictions do not need to be resolved. Understanding apparent contradictions is a key to understanding Islamic logic. In unitary logic, a contradiction shows the theory or argument to be false. But in the Koran, a contradiction does not prove an argument to be false. What appears to be logical contradictions are statements of duality that offer two true choices, depending upon the circumstances. This is dualistic logic.
How do we know the Koran is true? Because it contains the words of Allah. How do we know that these are the words of Allah? Mohammed said they were Allah's words. How do we know that Mohammed is Allah's messenger? Mohammed reported that Allah said that Mohammed is His messenger. – CSPI
http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/book-review/…
These acts are not warranted in Islam many Muslims and myself hope those who have died find peace, those injured recover from there injuries and those responsible for the attacks are brought to justice in the country they committed the crime no mater who they are
A Muslim is a Muslim all the infighting, calling rival sects shirk, innovation and none Muslim is not the answer
-JSOP
Read and learn that is all I am saying if you do not put in the effort to try and understand or learn a language, culture and religion how can you truely know what that culture,religion orl anguage is saying if you do not understand what you are reading
Common sense if you want to known Islam learn what Islam is and learn Arabic and about the history ect
Not a mumble it is saying learn and understand before stating something which is far from Islam as fact
-JSOP
You claim I do not care ?
Did I say it was right what extremist Muslims do or any violence or aggression is right
The Answer is No
You and others on this site have justified:
Violence against Muslims for being Muslims
Deporting Muslims for being Muslims.
Banning the Quran
Force removal of the face covering
Have a nerve calling me hateful and not caring look at the militant behaviour many justify against Muslims who have not committed any crime
Hating Muslims for being Muslims
Stating if they Believe in the Quran, Sunnah and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
Any abuse against them is right and justified.
Double standard or is it different if it is against a Muslim ?
It is a very good thing there are many Muslims, None Muslims,Human right and Civil rights groups that will not allow this hatred
You can all try and pass off your false ''truth'' but you will not succeed
-JSOP
Pointed out in many post and from the Quran that aggression is not justified many other none Muslims have also.
Not denial many have pointed out that what you and others say is wrong you can claim to know and be a expect but your posts show you are not
If you just see this half quote for example (9:5) ''fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)''
You will come to a different conclusion if you saw the entire quote
Entire Quote [9:4-5] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make.
As you can see it does not say just kill the unbelievers for not being Muslims it is talking about those violating peace in war ect
This is twisting and manipulating the text to say one thing yet the real text means something altogether
You seem to not grasp what many Muslims,None Muslims and Myself are saying and resort to names put downs and fail analyst of the person
Again you claim Shia and Sufi as being wrong without studying there text in Arabic you claim wrong without even studying anything about them.
Haters are going to hate you have already made up your mind Islam is wrong without even studying about Islam or learning Arabic
Bias
Before you call one a name such as a Liar or Hypocrite look to your self and your own posts
-JSOP
As Much as I find Buddhism and the many different teachings of different sects interesting I do not agree with the Laws of Karma for many reasons but that is a entire different subject
These acts are committed for power, control, money, rival sects ects
This is not the blame of a religion but the blame of those who are committing these acts in there Religions name
Yes these are not right act but that is up to the one committing these acts as everyone pays for there Good and bad deeds in the end but that does not warrant abuse of those who are not committing a bad act at all
This is tarring one with another's deed
Buddhist? I never would have guessed with some of your comments (many are very passive and respectful of other religions and people)
Read the Pali Cannon if you want a good Buddhist
Buddhist without an Idol
Does not say Buddha was God or there is not a God
Goes over his teaching
Also read about is Buddha a Prophet of Islam
-JSOP
Read my posts
Dictators come in many forms and it is not justified in any religion or ethics (Also there are many who turn a blind eye or allow them to commit these acts)
There are many brutal crackdowns happening in many countries at the moment not just Muslims
All who are doing these are the same meaning if a Muslim does these acts it should be the same for other religions and countries also
None of these are justified
-JSOP
Does not mean much from someone who has not even studied Islam and Arabic
Sharpening the pitchforks and lighting the touches are we ?
What about those saying Slay and kill when in fact it was meaning mortal combat those stating half a sentence and making a meaning out of half a sentence out of an entire Surah to back up there very flawed logic
Did I say all were political and had and had a religious axe to grind? The answer is no I was saying there are many that do and you should learn Arabic and compare them and you will see what I mean
Funny seeing some who do not even bother to try and learn Arabic, History and Read the Quran and start claiming to be an expect
Telling Muslims they are wrong and when Muslims do not agree and point out that is not right ect Many on this site just call them names justify violence, call Allah the Devil and state lies about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the Quran and claim to know what the Quran really says and they speak for the Muslims
-JSOP
I notice I am getting called names yet again
I was replying to Everins posts stating bad comes in every form as this is not justified as many others are committing the same acts (double standard)
I was pointing out that there are many bias translations and you really need Arabic to to compare the books ect nothing more
You claim I twist and distort and claim to be superory (lying yet again ?) yet you make claims that Muslims can never have the same knowledge that you and Ali Sina have and claim I am a terrorist yet I have not showed and do not agree with any terrorist acts, justify violence or militant behaviour can not say the same for some on this site though
Yet again trying to discredit me and what I am posting
-JSOP
Two of my post are missing (Showed on the side but for some treason did not post)
I went over many quotes about reading the entire Surah in context and not quoting half a quote out of a entire Surah of 129
I stated about Yusuf Ali translation some regard flawed in some aspects
Pointed out about what Robert Spencer and many others was missing out a lot of information about Muslims shunning violence and aggression ect
-JSOP
that's the problem, Sunni sources are incorrect most of the time,and by the way,we Shia's have win now and the whole world know's who right and whose wrong,because you know that Sunni sources are wrong,and you said Qur'an is wrong,saying is easy,prove it,just give any ayah,and I show you whose really wrong.
Why are you relying on hadith when the quran itself is wrong? The hadith in this site is based on sunni sources. 😉
You wrote, “I am ignoring the victim? Victims come in many forms you say that Muslims hurt others who are not Muslims (Which is not justified ) Some do this act but that is due to free will to commit bad acts nothing more Yet others and yourself justify horrible abuse of Muslims (One follower was justifying germ war fair on Iran Civilians then calling Muslims Evil )”
Yes, you are judging from the fact that you actually never care about victim of Islamic atrocity today and in the past done by Muhammad. All is connected. I don’t even talk about “general victim” but selective sympathy muslims have towards their own kind. When muslim commit crimes, other muslims won’t care but when non muslims commit it especially Jews, muslims will be angry and protest violently. The example is my country itself regarding international event.
Muslims do hurt others in the name of Allah and it is justified in Islam. Freewill doesn’t exist in Islamic doctrine as Muhammad said that you better kill not for emotion and selfish act but for Allah. Killing is ok as long as for Allah.
When did I justify “horrible abuse” of muslims? When did I say that, liar? You lie too much I can’t even count it here. Quote it, whiner.
One follower has nothing to with all followers let alone me. One muslim feels justified for killing me too. How’s that?
You talk too much but in the end you didn’t answer the simple question. Yes or no, that’s it.
You wrote, “I personally do not care if followers of this site and you respect me or not I do not need respect from people who say these type of things and have militant behaviour about not only Muslims but anyone who does not agree with what you say about Muslims and Islam ect”
I too personally don’t care about you and your constant whining but I can show what kind of person are you to the readers, a liar, a whiner, a hypocrite and a coward. You claimed you didn’t care but yet, you kept mentioning it even to me, who had nothing to do with that. I know Allah loves oxymoron, but now I know you love it too.
Readers can see your behavior and selfish, arrogant act for dismissing anything which is against your opinion. You don’t discuss anything and for that you feel that you are always right.
I don’t respect you and that’s because you don’t deserve it as I’ve pointed out the reason. You don’t care? That’s your level of reaction and I don’t care about your “care”. People who shrug off any critique and refuse to acknowledge anything beside his/her own ego is like that. This kind of people won’t be able to solve anything beside defending their own selves.
You wrote, “So I am a reformist because I say no this is what it says about Islam and say state facts not lies and half quotes, learn Arabic to truly understand what you are talking about ?”
Anyone who doesn’t state what Islam and Quran state is a reformist. The key is the difference they both have. Learn Arabic excuse again? That won’t work if you don’t dare to enter any topic here. I stated the reason and you didn’t read it, I know it judging from your repeated words. Sects are different each other and truth is only one so the rest of them must be reformists. It could be all of them.
You wrote, “How is this proof of being a reformist ?”
That’s why I asked you to enter specific discussion, silly. General statement and mere denial will not solve anything. Do logical thinking. If one sect is different than the other, one or both of them must be wrong. There are no 2 truths. You claimed that differentiating them is false and this is the same with blurring the truth about them and specifically about the real Islam. Did Muhammad blur things? If not then you are a reformist.
You wrote, “This was said by a few Followers. A terrorist is a terrorist and Islam does not allow anything that Terrorist do I have showed this and others have also”
Dear oh dear, if you didn’t know how to process sentences then just said so, don’t try to teach anyone. A terrorist can be anyone and the current fact is that Islam has the biggest terrorist nest in the world located almost everywhere. Why is that? It’s because Islam promote terrorism in order to advance its doctrine be it violence, threat, discriminative law, bombing, burning, killing etc. Muhammad himself had said that he had been made won by terror. Don’t accuse me of half quote because I already did the query about this one. Westerner sees them as terrorist but muslim sees them as mujahideen. I repeat again the sentence so that you can understand that your own words apply to this also: “Not all muslims are terrorist but most terrorists are muslims”. Others have also? Sure, insert that to the sentence and see it for your self but others have to be protected from Islam not the other way around.
You wrote, “This is not the case I have showed you and others that you are not right and said that if you do not believe me (those also reading) to spend the time reading all about Islam and get to know Muslims, learn Arabic and visits a Muslim country”
This is the case, dude. What can I expect from a person who keeps replying with the same petty denial over and over again? You only showed your opinion and refusal to acknowledge anything against your view. This is no matter of believing you but knowing your proof. Saying “no” is not proof and my queries, as I’ve told you, have nothing to do with the language and the response for this language excuse is already here. The scholars do the work, I just analyze them. Visit muslim country? I already am in muslim country, silly. You didn’t read again.
You wrote, “I did not say that what the Extremist were doing was right and I never said a Muslim could do not wrong (everyone has the struggle between doing right or wrong)”
I too didn’t say that you said “extremist were right”. I said that Muhammad was wrong and you defended him so automatically you defended falsehood and evil. Read properly next time, whiner. I said “evil ideology” not “extremist”. How many lie will you create in my name? When did I say the word “extremist” in that sentence, eh?
You wrote, “Yet again jumping to conclusions that I am a liar, harassing none Muslims (not the case if you read what horrible things are said about Muslims ect) Islam is a evil ideology when most know it is not.”
Dude, I didn’t jump to any conclusion. You just lied again right here. I said “ideology” which refers to Islam and you said “extremist”. Man, you are so clueless. Anything you write will turn to contradiction. Learn logic, kid:
1. I did call you “reformist” meaning that you changed the Quranic meaning
2. I did call you “not to be respected” meaning you defended Muhammad who was proven to be the source of this all.
3. If I called you as “in line with extremist” then it would violate number 1 and surely extremist is no reformist.
Oh, you are so busy here, responding and talking. Alas, there is no discussion about Islam but mere person to person attack.
You wrote, “Quick to call me names with out any proof and you say Muslims are hateful look at all the comments you have said most have called me names”
Kid, the thing you should do is to fix the description I made because of your own deed. I didn’t just call you that out of nothing, I was describing your very behavior as you described non muslims here. Is this double standard? You can judge others but you don’t want to be judged? I call you a hypocrite, why is that? I just give 1 example, “hell”. Seeing light now? Hypocrite itself is in the Quran so can I call Islam as name caller, hypocrite?
Make a list of names I use here and prove me wrong one by one. Stating fact is not calling names. You just brand anything you hate with that, a childish remark.
You wrote, “I was stating the comment that Grace and John were saying if one is a Muslim they go to hell (playing God”
Dude, deluded response deserves no respect. Going to hell is not “playing god” but a “religious formula”. They are not talking about “fate” but “position” as Allah had stated that any one whose religion is not Islam will go to hell. Also, anyone who has sins will go to hell first from sometime. Allah had said it and ordered it to be a foundation of his religion so that people can see his way is the only way. This is not “playing god”, this is “planting the rule”. If adultery happen and you use your logic than what will happen? Is it a sin or not?
If one is a non muslim he/she will go to hell. This is Allah’s statement. Are you god denier? Ops, don’t accuse me again.
You wrote, “Stating Allah was the Devil ect”
Another religious remark just like Allah said that anything unislamic is done by the devil and will go to hell for punishment. What’s the matter hypocrite? In my case, Allah was evil and selfish, that makes him a human.
You wrote, “It is funny that none know what this comment means and you have not again missed the chance to say you are superior to me and again say another insult”
It is funny too to know that this response is not a response at all. You have yet again avoided the topic at hand. I didn’t say any insult I just repeated what the prophet said about women. Don’t dare to criticize him? What a biased whiner you are.
You wrote, “I clearly stated what followers said many have said I was a liar because I was a Muslims which is not right to do”
I clearly stated that the comment you made had accused me of being one of them and there was no “followers” at all in your earlier comment to me. You mentioned that words after I showed you to be wrong. I didn’t say “you are liar because you are a muslim”. When did I say that, liar? This proves that you again and again are lying. I said, “you are a liar because you lie”. Man, you are so hateful. Anything I say will be degraded and lost its meaning. “Many have said” is hardly fact either. Did you do real calculation?
Can you show even one wrong hadith of Prophet and Imam Ali?
You wrote, “Again many have proven this also not to be true as violence is only justified in times of war and armed conflicts and aggression of every kind is not allowed again this is based on ''Evil Muslims killing unbelievers'' quote which is only half of the quote and taken out of context as one quote I have listed was quoted as killing unbelievers was only if they attack the Muslims and turn down a peace treaty and be aggressive to the Muslims not the other way around as what you all are trying to pass it off as”
Again, many have proven that this is also right. And violence is justified as long as the mission of spreading Islam is in line. The war and conflict had started by Muhammad and the violence too had started by him and his followers. Dude, I’d discussed. Any aggression of any kind is allowed as long as it’s for Islam and I too had discussed it in my link. Evil muslim killing unbelievers are already proven to be true. They were evil because the started it first. I too already posted with real quote and meaning including Muhammad’s wars, treaty, history etc. The problem is that you keep ignoring and repeating, like kids.
You wrote, “You did not read I said ''followers'' meaning those on this site as I quote comments from what all have said from John to Grace to Ali Sina and others”
You didn’t read my response about that. This is what I said:
“Irrelevant again as I didn’t even say it that way. You didn’t read eh? Do I need to give the place?”
Now, is there any difficulty understanding my post here? First, read “irrelevant” then read “I didn’t say it that way”. Why this is irrelevant? It’s because “I didn’t say it”. Why should you talk about something else when you talk about me. That’s my point, whiner. You keep misunderstanding me here. It’s no wonder if you misunderstand Islam.
Now, comes to "do I need to give the place"? You do aware that I didn't talk about your particular post about "followers", don't you?
You wrote, “Did you not read? I stated what followers have said to me that means more then one as not just what you have said but what all have said on this site directed towards me with no proof what so ever”
Did you not read? I stated what muslims have done to me by running away 100% after all the time they had, posting numerous arguments defending Islam and when some particular points came they just run. The fact that you are talking to me shows that you chose to talk about something unrelated to me in order to avoid answering my queries. What had happened had nothing to do with me and I know you had accused me back then. Do I need to quote it?
When you talk to me you talk about what I am saying, not what others say coz that has nothing to do with me and I can easily say the same about muslims who often claim without proof. I was accused of being Christian, Hindu, dead, female, any vulgar language you can think of by muslims just because I criticized Islam. Do you know how to discuss properly? What you can do I can do too coz that’s rubbish. Seeing the light?
You wrote, “Many have proofed this is not the case as only a few believe Islam is not a religion, evil devil worshippers and other wild ridiculous claims who try and justify abuse against the Muslim people and others who do not agree with these claims”
Many have proven this is the case and Muhammad was proven to be a political leader, legal law bringer, having no spiritual concept, and a deceitful tactician. Islam is political and I didn’t say that Islam is not religion. When did I say that Islam is “not religion”? Can you quote it, liar? Islam is both religious and political but the latter has bigger role. You abuse anyone who disagrees with you, you ignore any proof presented here. You only dare to play this common tactic. I said, prove it not deny it.
You wrote, “You can say it is proven but it is not based on anything but a bias half quoted English translation and is judged by someone who is open about how bias he is towards Islam”
Man, you are so deluded. I said it is proven because I’d discussed and read it, silly. That’s why I’m asking you to discuss it and see your refutation. Bias half quoted BS won’t answer me because you judge me without even reading my queries. Anything will be biased just by you saying it, won’t it? Whining is for children, ok.
You wrote, “Did I ever say I was following this sect ? Yet many have proven that what those said on here is far from truthful (even an atheist did not agree and he was meet with abuse from members )”
Wow, you are so confused here. I didn’t say anything about you being “member of any sect”. Did I say it, liar? Did I mention any particular sect? I said that you should solve your “sect problem” related to your position which keep defending them using the petty denial and generalization you use until now. How should I know your sect? You don’t even dare to enter discussion. This is another stupid accusation and proof that you are just lying all this time.
Here’s my point, whiner: Your buddy sect have problems and that’s not pretty. You who treat them as “innocent” should make them in peace “religiously” between themselves before you deny anything I say about them. The fact is the topic, not me.
Remember my earlier post to you about you being “not a muslim”? This is applicable too. This is worse than if you are actually belonged to any sect. You just talked something you actually don’t know anything about.
You can’t read my sentences properly and you claim to know Quran? No wonder you keep misquoting me.
You wrote, “Is this all you are capable of doing calling me names?”
Did I say any name, liar? The “name” I use is liar, whiner, kid and coward. All of it is fact and your behavior. I didn’t name any sect nor claim anything about you beside that you are obviously have emotional tie with Islam aka mu….
Is this all you capable of doing accusation and ignoring queries? You are doing ad hominem, kid.
The Quran forbids thinking and questioning. It might lead to leaving Islam. (Oops! 😀 )
Good point. That's why it's important to stick to the core doctrines of the Quran and Sunna.
This whiner apparently doesn't really understand how to read sentences.
JSOP, you better read carefully next time because you got trapped by my words related to your identity. I just quote
“I don’t consider you and muslims as important no matter what they bring and from the fact that they always run 100% we can see who is truly not important.” Taken from http://alisina.org/i-learned-the-truth-from-the-q…
And
“And I know there a lot of muslims who don’t agree with your view, let alone your group.” In here, I just said “group” not “sect”, taken from http://alisina.org/i-learned-the-truth-from-the-q…
If you really read it properly you should know that I didn’t even mention any identity you have. Being a liar is despicable, don’t you think?
You wrote, “This was said by a few Followers that Muslim men abuse woman as what you say that Islam allows such abuse is not justified in Islam (All read about Woman and Islam from an none bias source)”
See? That’s why that stupid sentence is irrelevant when directed to me and my queries. Islam allowed that kind of abuse and the proof is right there. You didn’t dare to discuss it again. The source is Islamic, dude, let alone the scholars. You are a misplaced whiner.
You wrote, “This has been proven by many to be false many times over the years
To vilify Muslim Men yet again look to many countries before you call the Muslim men the Paedophiles as this is yet again slander and punishable in a western court of Law
No shame”
This has been proven many times to be right over the years and muslims always run from this one including you. Why I say that? It’s obvious, isn’t it? Now, stop being an irrelevant whiner and check again what I had said. I repeat:
1. Being a muslim male, pedophile is not a negative word since Muhammad also did that at least judging from your faith. True or not? Prove it. the key is "good or not". That's it, whiner.
2. Do you live using Muhammad’s standard or modern one?
Now, you are a liar because I had answered this stupid accusation of “all muslim are pedos” in other comments. Dude, you are really pathetic. Did I say that in number 1 and 2? I know you are having a hard time digesting sentences but try hard this time. You accused me of not logical and here you are, the most illogical response I see today.
If you read the argument muslim presented in related article, you wouldn’t say this. What a whiner.
You wrote, “I mentioned about the humans rights person because not that was a bad thing but it was assumed with out any proof”
So, that means you don’t care about human rights? So, why should I care about you because you don’t care about human basic rights? You are a muslim, that’s proof. There is no need for you to say it, your post shows it.
Question for the whiner: Is this relevant to me?
You wrote, “I was accused of this after my first few comments with no proof and the people who accused me of it did not know what it was.”
Irrelevant whining. You as the whiner of no proof should look into the mirror first. You also accuse and lie, oh, forgetting your own self? What a double standard you have here.
You wrote, “I would rather not disclose as I believe doing a good act is to not claim any reward I will not disclose what Religion, Age, Gender, Race, Country or what JSOP even means”
Irrelevant again since you have already shown your behavior and tendency. Who you really are doesn’t even have anything to do with Islam and its topic.
You wrote, “You can claim Logic yet many post do not show logic and you and many others jump to conclusions and miss out a lot of information about Muhammad ( peace be upon him) Islam the Muslim people the Quran the people you are in a disagreement with, History and Muslim Countries”
Your words are petty denials. You accused me for not being logical and yet I have to agree that this mere denial is logical? Your post itself is not logical and jumping to conclusion you have already had before you even see the opposite argument. Unlike you, the fan of Islam, I read first before decide. You missed out a lot of info about the error, illogical verses, atrocities, selfish, and lust of Muhammad. You only say “no” to anything you dislike, you are not proving anything. I can say the same and simply change the words and voila, I’m right.
Prove me wrong, will you kid? You know, kids love to complain but no kids can prove their view because kids use their feeling and emotion instead of reason. Nothing insulting, only fact, otherwise I can sue Quran for calling kafirs as unclean, swine, pig, donkey, fool etc. This name calling was made to down play anyone who disagrees with Islam. What a hypocrite you are.
You wrote, “Sorry to disappoint I did not avoid your post I already said my reason if you cannot believe or accept that and make up many thing I was ''really doing'' then you can think that but I have already said why
and you can go on saying all these things but that is not the case at all and this is not any proof”
Sorry to disappoint too that you just made excuse for avoiding me. I already said too that the logic of “business” is pathetic as you can see in yourself and other muslim here. Oh, I know you have the time to complain so many post but don’t have the time to answer a single real query. What you are really doing? You are making petty excuse, that’s it. You know the probability law and who was I talking about? You don’t coz you are not bright.
My advice: Read my post once again because I never talked about “what you are really doing” and I don’t care. Man, you are so pathetic. You don’t know how to read between lines.
You wrote, “You all claim to talk about Muhammad ( peace be upon him) Islam and the Quran and you and others miss history and state half quotes to back up what you are say basing your ''proof'' on a half quote which is far what the English translation says and very far from what the Arabic says. This is very far from proof.”
You all claim to talk about Muhammad “general impression” from muslm view and didn’t dare to discuss the “real fact” about him. You avoided anything about Islam, any topic here is blatantly ignored. Anything you hate will be marked as “miss blah, blah”. You are basing your “proof” with half quote and meaning and I base it with real quote and meaning. It’s funny for the so called real one is afraid of the fake one, a typical liar you are. I didn’t say far from English and Arabic, I used what’s there and I showed you the place and link be it Arabic and English. Man, you are a coward and if you read it you wouldn’t say it like this. You claimed something about me without reading my queries. Can I call you as ultimate liar?
You wrote, “Learn that what the English says can be very different then what the Arabic says (many flawed translations) Ali Sina has not read or understood the Quran in Arabic many have pointed this out and you and others are going only on bias flawed English translations”
Learn the proof that what the Arabic says is no different than English says. Small variation exists and it doesn’t change the core meaning of the verses. I also compared it with my own language to know that this is no different than the 2 language but has some smoothing applied. You don’t realize that this very claim already attacks Islam, eh? Why is that? Don’t know it? Sure, you don’t coz you don’t read anything.
You wrote, “How can you all claim to know Islam's ''true evil form'' when you have not even read studied or know what true Islam is ?”
I know because I rely in Islamic scholars themselves and they know Arabic. You, on the other hand, are not scholars and didn’t bring anything but complain. I did ask you for the real quote and meaning (not amateurish BS of “verse after and before) but you run. How can you claim to know Islam’s true meaning when you haven’t discussed anything presented here? How can you claim to prove anything when you only have complain and generalization?
Dude, you just posted for the sake of replying, didn’t you? That’s why I never got answer from the likes of you and if you paid attention to people you are replying you should know that I’d dealt with this excuse before.
You wrote, “You cannot claim all sects or certain sects are an innovation when you have not studied anything about them”
Oh, I can because the Quran itself DOESN’T talk about Islamic sect. Sect was born after a religion had been built. No founder wanted any sect in his religion, it would be chaos.
You wrote, “As one cannot claim for example the Sufi or Shia are an innovation with out studying in detail (from none bias sources ) there sects and beliefs I have read many lies about these sects as I have read man lies also about the Salafi (will read any book on any religion )”
Sure I can because Sufi and Shia had strayed off the path from the legal sources I know and their presence is insignificant to the problem at hand. Each sect thinks that others are innovation and here you are, defending the real culprit of this problem. Fix them before you try to fix us. I too have read lies about Islam and one of them is yours.
You wrote, “I have stated and showed many quotes from the Quran are missed or half quoted and taken out of context to try and justify baseless hatred”
I have stated and showed many posts about the problem in Quran and your error of “playing quote”. You didn’t dare to discuss it. Mere statement is not a proof not to mention that you are ignoring legitimate queries.
You wrote, “What the extremist do to justify there crimes is no fault of Islam but the Muslim who is abusing it to justify violence and aggression which are a big no no in Islam and many other religion and ethics”
On the contrary, without Islam, the extremist wouldn’t have any justification for their deeds. Without it, they wouldn’t feel right when committing a crime. The muslims who abuse and do violence in the name of Allah and for Allah’s sake is a big yes in Islam and other religions are irrelevant. You are doing “generalization fallacy”.
You wrote, “I see what many are doing on this site as playing the blame game and is not really logical (If a Muslim did this it cannot be the Muslims freewill but Islam is the blame this thinking is very flawed)”
I see what many muslims are doing in this site as playing denial, ignorance, evasion, excuse game and none of it is logical. Islam is the benchmark for muslim’s religious related deed. It’s that simple. You have to solve Islam first.
You wrote, “I have stated that many on this site like Robert Spencer seem to not high light that violence is only justified in self defence and in times of armed conflict or wars (just like any other country which is at war) and a Muslim can not be the aggressor and they should not shun a peaceful way to end conflict (backed up in many Laws and history, listed this in another post and link )”
Irrelevant junk post keeps coming when talking to me, why? I have stated in this site that violence in Islam is not for self defense but for the advancement of Islamic faith and the conflict had started by Muhammad. If he didn’t spread and force Islam the conflict wouldn’t be there. You are just the same with zitouni, you just tried to hide wood in the forest. I have queries about this and gave you the link but hey, you repeated it again. Why I’m not surprised?
Muslim is the aggressor started from the first violence and war. Muhammad’s wars were all aggressive. I had shown it but you avoided it. Read kid, read.
You wrote, “No need for the derogatory as stating one as a kid or boy as you do no know my age and this was done to many other people in history to down play there arguments ect (Negroes complaining about hatred against there people those in there elder years where called boy or child as a insulting term)”
No need for denial because I have stated the reason as to why I call “kids” in other posts. I state what I see and you are the one. You should check your own behavior before you protest, whiner. I never talked about age, silly. This wouldn’t happen if you really read my post instead of complaining me. I didn’t down play anyone because that “anyone” had down played himself by running from me. Your behavior and the result of my queries had made you like this. Note that I didn’t do this in the first place and wanted to see if you were worthy or not.
Being a boy or girl indicates childish behavior and ignorance. Compare it with you who misquote, evade, repeat, whine and misunderstand me and my post, what should I call you? A grown up by attitude? That would be a lie. Truth doesn’t care about your feeling.
Cherry picking detected again.
What muslims don't realize is that "multiple sects, tafsir, and translations" itself have attacked Islam's core principle. They are too focused on defending their own identity, forgetting what Islam really is.
tell me porky ….. As your country is very "PAK" and clean… where do you porkis piss and shit?? Is it outside PORKistan or Inside of PORKistan ??
So JSOP u cannot find an anwer as to why muslims killing muslims all over Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, n many ME countries. The answer can be found in the teachings of Buddhism, Mahikari n Johrei. The killings had been done by Divine arrangement of the Supreme God according to Law of Karma i.e. u reap what u sow. The victims or their ancestors had been killers ( of Jews, Christians n many others ). So now they are being killed. Su God will see to it that u get what u deserved. No one can escaped the heavenly Laws. U can say all these are BS but the events are happening right before yr eyes. Killers like Hitler, Osama bin Ladin, Saddam Hussain, Gaddafi, etc. had paid for their sins with their lives. Who is next, ha ?
"Dear oh dear, someone didn’t even read my point. Why I am not surprised here?"
Yeah, that's his style. He just goes straight for the jugular, a terrorist out for the kill.
Actually, you should be glad he didn't read, because times that he does, he just twists and distorts everything you say in the typical sick Muslim supremacist way.
''Another irrelevant statement directed to me. I never stated that all muslim male do this, I just stated that abusive muslim male can do this freely because of Islam. ''
This was said by a few Followers that Muslim men abuse woman as what you say that Islam allows such abuse is not justified in Islam (All read about Woman and Islam from an none bias source)
''Irrelevant again. Being a muslim male, pedophile is not a negative word since Muhamamd also did that at least judging from your faith. Do you live using Muhammad’s standard or modern one? ''
This has been proven by many to be false many times over the years
To vilify Muslim Men yet again look to many countries before you call the Muslim men the Paedophiles as this is yet again slander and punishable in a western court of Law
No shame
I mentioned about the humans rights person because not that was a bad thing but it was assumed with out any proof
''You did create that impression because of your unclear statement, generalized claim, unproven whine, and your behavior of avoiding any topic here. Now, who are you exactly? Sects in Islam abuse each other and that’s the belief they have.''
I was accused of this after my first few comments with no proof and the people who accused me of it did not know what it was.
I would rather not disclose as I believe doing a good act is to not claim any reward I will not disclose what Religion, Age, Gender, Race, Country or what JSOP even means
-JSOP
''A hypocrite and a person who has reading problem as I’ve answered this, going to hell is a religious remark and Allah and Muhammad also said that. Why don’t you protest to him too? I thought yor aren’t afraid of hell because of … ''
Quick to call me names with out any proof and you say Muslims are hateful look at all the comments you have said most have called me names
I was stating the comment that Grace and John were saying if one is a Muslim they go to hell (playing God)
Stating Allah was the Devil ect
''Irrelevant again and wrong target. A woman in Islam is really deficient in intelligence and I’ve discussed that in woman section. If you demonstrated a similar behavior and I know you did then it was not entirely false from Islamic POV that you are a woman. From neutral view, you are just deficient and prove that (if you are male) male can have it. Do you understand sarcasm? What were you complaining to, woman part or intelligence? ''
It is funny that none know what this comment means and you have not again missed the chance to say you are superior to me and again say another insult
''You are a liar and you have accused me words I didn’t say. You forgot it? ''
I clearly stated what followers said many have said I was a liar because I was a Muslims which is not right to do
''Yes, you are judging from your own post. You avoided anything about Islam and chose your own opinion. ''
So I am a reformist because I say no this is what it says about Islam and say state facts not lies and half quotes, learn Arabic to truly understand what you are talking about ?
How is this proof of being a reformist ?
''Who said this? Not all terrorists are muslim but most terrorists nowadays are muslim and that’s because Islam. ''
This was said by a few Followers. A terrorist is a terrorist and Islam does not allow anything that Terrorist do I have showed this and others have also
''All your post are without facts and show that you hate all things that disclose Islam and anyone who doesn’t agree with you is branded as liar, half truth, quote and fact less without any proof. You create lies against critic of Islam thus you are defending an evil ideology and ignoring the victim. You deserve to be not respected. ''
This is not the case I have showed you and others that you are not right and said that if you do not believe me (those also reading) to spend the time reading all about Islam and get to know Muslims, learn Arabic and visits a Muslim country
I did not say that what the Extremist were doing was right and I never said a Muslim could do not wrong (everyone has the struggle between doing right or wrong)
Yet again jumping to conclusions that I am a liar, harassing none Muslims (not the case if you read what horrible things are said about Muslims ect) Islam is a evil ideology when most know it is not.
I am ignoring the victim? Victims come in many forms you say that Muslims hurt others who are not Muslims (Which is not justified ) Some do this act but that is due to free will to commit bad acts nothing more Yet others and yourself justify horrible abuse of Muslims (One follower was justifying germ war fair on Iran Civilians then calling Muslims Evil )
I personally do not care if followers of this site and you respect me or not I do not need respect from people who say these type of things and have militant behaviour about not only Muslims but anyone who does not agree with what you say about Muslims and Islam ect
-JSOP
Did you not read? I stated what followers have said to me that means more then one as not just what you have said but what all have said on this site directed towards me with no proof what so ever
'' I talked about Islam and it is proven. Having any objection? Just prove it, don’t complain and use generalization as if Islam is the same with others. This is a logical fallacy. ''
Many have proofed this is not the case as only a few believe Islam is not a religion, evil devil worshippers and other wild ridiculous claims who try and justify abuse against the Muslim people and others who do not agree with these claims
You can say it is proven but it is not based on anything but a bias half quoted English translation and is judged by someone who is open about how bias he is towards Islam
''You are a whiner and a cherry picker, that’s a fact''
''Solve your sect problem yourself and don’t bring it to me. I just talk about Islam and Muhammad plus its influence to muslims. Just because you complain doesn’t mean Islam is right or good. ''
Did I ever say I was following this sect ? Yet many have proven that what those said on here is far from truthful (even an atheist did not agree and he was meet with abuse from members )
Is this all you are capable of doing calling me names?
''Irrelevant again as I didn’t even say it that way. You didn’t read eh? Do I need to give the place? It feels like I talk to a slow brain here, repeating things I’d said. Islam was won with terror and terror is one of the tools Muhammad used to advance Islam. If a muslim wants to follow Muhammad he/she has to terrorize unbelievers in any form until Islam wins. Your whining doesn’t erase that Islam promotes terrorism.''
Again many have proven this also not to be true as violence is only justified in times of war and armed conflicts and aggression of every kind is not allowed again this is based on ''Evil Muslims killing unbelievers'' quote which is only half of the quote and taken out of context as one quote I have listed was quoted as killing unbelievers was only if they attack the Muslims and turn down a peace treaty and be aggressive to the Muslims not the other way around as what you all are trying to pass it off as
You did not read I said ''followers'' meaning those on this site as I quote comments from what all have said from John to Grace to Ali Sina and others
-JSOP
This is far from truthful John you called me a terrorist because you said I was a Muslim and many other things said I was killing Shia and Sunni did not have an education living in a savage Muslim Country living off the hared working western UK with no proof what so ever
It is quite funny as you say I am jumping to conclusions and bulling you (pointed out you have no right to abuse Muslims rights and claim to speak for Muslims ect) yet you said far worse then what I said and assumed all of these
You called me a terrorist and should not be listen to because I believe in the Quran and Prophet
Muhammad (peace be upon him) went on to even say I would burn in hell for being a Muslim (not very nice)
You insulted Muslims with names and called them very far from truthful things and justify what many militant Muslim Haters acts they commit against the Muslim people
Do not make out the Muslims and Myself are the aggressor this is not the case at all (many have pointed this out)
Read your bullying and hate filled comments directed towards the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Islam the Muslim people, Muslim countries and Myself
-JSOP
You cannot claim all sects or certain sects are an innovation when you have not studied anything about them
As one cannot claim for example the Sufi or Shia are an innovation with out studying in detail (from none bias sources ) there sects and beliefs I have read many lies about these sects as I have read man lies also about the Salafi (will read any book on any religion )
I have stated and showed many quotes from the Quran are missed or half quoted and taken out of context to try and justify baseless hatred
What the extremist do to justify there crimes is no fault of Islam but the Muslim who is abusing it to justify violence and aggression which are a big no no in Islam and many other religion and ethics
I see what many are doing on this site as playing the blame game and is not really logical (If a Muslim did this it cannot be the Muslims freewill but Islam is the blame this thinking is very flawed)
I have stated that many on this site like Robert Spencer seem to not high light that violence is only justified in self defence and in times of armed conflict or wars (just like any other country which is at war) and a Muslim can not be the aggressor and they should not shun a peaceful way to end conflict (backed up in many Laws and history, listed this in another post and link )
No need for the derogatory as stating one as a kid or boy as you do no know my age and this was done to many other people in history to down play there arguments ect (Negroes complaining about hatred against there people those in there elder years where called boy or child as a insulting term)
You can claim Logic yet many post do not show logic and you and many others jump to conclusions and miss out a lot of information about Muhammad ( peace be upon him) Islam the Muslim people the Quran the people you are in a disagreement with, History and Muslim Countries
Sorry to disappoint I did not avoid your post I already said my reason if you cannot believe or accept that and make up many thing I was ''really doing'' then you can think that but I have already said why
and you can go on saying all these things but that is not the case at all and this is not any proof
You all claim to talk about Muhammad ( peace be upon him) Islam and the Quran and you and others miss history and state half quotes to back up what you are say basing your ''proof'' on a half quote which is far what the English translation says and very far from what the Arabic says. This is very far from proof.
Read what Proof is.
Learn that what the English says can be very different then what the Arabic says (many flawed translations) Ali Sina has not read or understood the Quran in Arabic many have pointed this out and you and others are going only on bias flawed English translations
How can you all claim to know Islam's ''true evil form'' when you have not even read studied or know what true Islam is ?
-JSOP
-JSOP
I called him a terrorist in the context of his bullying posts.
What happened to aorta thingy, guys? Having no desire to discuss my queries? 😉
Don't just dwell in language, do the thinking, muslim. xD
so the video can defeat Quran?
You don't play half quote and real quote, that's amateurish and actually repetitive. The problem is the cause and effect, the reason behind the quote and who the problem was. Read my queries about Muhammad's wars specifically:
http://alisina.org/juwairiyah/#IDComment139018648 http://alisina.org/juwairiyah/#IDComment142402282 http://alisina.org/juwairiyah/#IDComment145538823 http://alisina.org/juwairiyah/#IDComment145539277 http://alisina.org/is-islam-a-religion/#IDComment…
Note: I did talk about Islam in "real quote". Care to answer?
Do you think I didn't know this? Muslims also often quoted bible like your post. I know your game.
Dear oh dear, someone didn’t even read my point. Why I am not surprised here? Listen, it’s easy to make excuse like, Arabic language just like your brother, zitouni here, but in the end you can’t even answer my queries.
Read the post again and see that “Arabic” doesn’t even have any influence on this particular problem.
Ignorance is a bliss they say.
You wrote, “If you do not wish to learn Arabic (to fully understand the Quran and the many Hadith of each sect you need Arabic and spend years studying) try and find an English Quran translation which does not have a religious or political axe to grind.”
Wrong, the fact that Quran had been translated and intrepreted by scholars is enough to know what Quran means (otherwise why have scholars after all?) and it is contradiction. Quran claimed that Islam is for all mankind but here we have an exclusive language, idiom, expression known only to Arabs and you had to be an Arab living in an Arab culture to fully understand that. This is another blunder Allah/Muhammad had made.
The English translations which don’t have what? I assume you know that kind of translation or you just brand all translations which don’t agree with you as “political”? Islam was and is political and you should know that.
Provide the true translation and prove it.
To know that Islam is false and bad doesn’t require Arabic.
You wrote, “A liar because I was a Muslim”
You are a liar and you have accused me words I didn’t say. You forgot it?
You wrote, “A human rights person”
Why did you complain about this one?
You wrote, “A Muslim reformist”
Yes, you are judging from your own post. You avoided anything about Islam and chose your own opinion.
You wrote, “A none Muslim because I was not a terrorist”
Who said this? Not all terrorists are muslim but most terrorists nowadays are muslim and that’s because Islam.
You wrote, “All without the facts and meet with abuse which shows you and others no not only dislike Muslims but anyone you assume does not agree with the unwanted abuse of Muslim and the unwanted lies against the Islam faith and Muslim people”
All your post are without facts and show that you hate all things that disclose Islam and anyone who doesn’t agree with you is branded as liar, half truth, quote and fact less without any proof. You create lies against critic of Islam thus you are defending an evil ideology and ignoring the victim. You deserve to be not respected.
Yoy wrote, “The other Muslim already explained about the aorta so I did not need to”
Do you think I just talk about aorta all this long? Do you not read my post about aorta and how it refutes all this muslim had said? Do you read my other posts? Do you click my profile, kid? You didn’t need to answer because someone else has posted something and no matter what happens with the answer or what refutation the opponent gives, you will delude yourself with “no need to answer”. Is that how your brain works? Dear oh dear.
Now, since the aorta thingy hasn’t been answered then why don’t you answer it? Do you see that muslim answer me? No. Do you see that muslim answer me on other topic especially about “9:29”? No again. This is the proof I was talking about. Zitouni couldn’t answer “9:29” and did ad hominem to me and he had the time to talk about aorta. Is this what you call “busy”?
You wrote, “You all say Muslims are hateful read your own posts first”
Before you open your mouth why don’t you quote my post fully and see who the liar is? You couldn’t read my post properly and you wanted me to read it. I did the writing, silly. I knew what I wrote.
My advice: Read and quote it here, right now and I’ll show your lie.
You wrote, “I was pointing out as I did not claim any race, gender, religion, Country ect yet all were assumed”
Irrelevant since I didn’t talk about any race, religion, and country. I talked about Islam and it is proven. Having any objection? Just prove it, don’t complain and use generalization as if Islam is the same with others. This is a logical fallacy.
You wrote, “I was accused by followers as being as listed here”
Irrelevant as I didn’t accuse you anything. On the contrary, you had accused me of something I didn’t say. Your condition doesn’t have anything to do with Islam. In Islam, everything is made clear and Allah claimed that way. Assumption will make this religion as man made.
You are a whiner and a cherry picker, that’s a fact.
You wrote, “A Sunni then accused me of killing and hurting Shia”
Solve your sect problem yourself and don’t bring it to me. I just talk about Islam and Muhammad plus its influence to muslims. Just because you complain doesn’t mean Islam is right or good.
You wrote, “From a Muslim country then said all Muslim ruled countries were savage”
Stupid comment, really. In here, muslim country has its idol and that’s Muhammad. We talk about how close an Islamic country to Islam. Of course foreign influence be it other religions, modern value, native culture, or tradition have its part to distort Islam in a country but that’s not the point. The problem in this case is Islam, not the country.
Don’t just shrug the impression, know the problem as to why the impression emerged and solve it. The obvious violent and terrorized countries are muslim and every muslim country has the so called radical. Even muslim minority creates problem.
You wrote, “A Terrorist for simply being a Muslim”
Irrelevant again as I didn’t even say it that way. You didn’t read eh? Do I need to give the place? It feels like I talk to a slow brain here, repeating things I’d said. Islam was won with terror and terror is one of the tools Muhammad used to advance Islam. If a muslim wants to follow Muhammad he/she has to terrorize unbelievers in any form until Islam wins. Your whining doesn’t erase that Islam promotes terrorism.
You wrote, “Going to burn in hell for being a terrorist Muslim”
A hypocrite and a person who has reading problem as I’ve answered this, going to hell is a religious remark and Allah and Muhammad also said that. Why don’t you protest to him too? I thought yor aren’t afraid of hell because of …
You wrote, “A woman who was deficient in intellect”
Irrelevant again and wrong target. A woman in Islam is really deficient in intelligence and I’ve discussed that in woman section. If you demonstrated a similar behavior and I know you did then it was not entirely false from Islamic POV that you are a woman. From neutral view, you are just deficient and prove that (if you are male) male can have it. Do you understand sarcasm? What were you complaining to, woman part or intelligence?
You wrote, “A Muslim male who abused woman”
Another irrelevant statement directed to me. I never stated that all muslim male do this, I just stated that abusive muslim male can do this freely because of Islam.
You wrote, “A paedophile for being a Muslim Male”
Irrelevant again. Being a muslim male, pedophile is not a negative word since Muhamamd also did that at least judging from your faith. Do you live using Muhammad’s standard or modern one?
Question is: why did you complain about it? Is it bad to be a pedo? If it’s bad then why Muhammad, as an eternal rule and moral bringer, did it?
You wrote, “A Shia who abused Sunni and Sufi. Shia who was a liar practising Thaqq”
You did create that impression because of your unclear statement, generalized claim, unproven whine, and your behavior of avoiding any topic here. Now, who are you exactly? Sects in Islam abuse each other and that’s the belief they have.
No need to correct typo, correct your understanding first, kid.
You wrote, “You have to have studied before opening your mouth to say they are not Muslims as by this comment hints you have not studied any sect of Islam”
Missing the point again, JSOP. Sects of Islam doesn’t support Islam at all, it ruins it. Why is that? I thought you know how to think properly, not just making excuse. My understanding of Islam doesn’t care about sect but what’s in Muhammad’s mind and analyzed it logically. Sect doesn’t analyze it rationally. It just adds it with irrational view, belief, and religious innovation. If I follow any sect’s mind then I will be contaminated by its belief and view which is not neutral.
You wrote, “How can you claim to know Muslims or Islam are what you say they are when you have not even studied sects or Islam ?”
I know because I’ve read their scriptures and seen the reality of Islamic violcence. For your info, I live in majority muslim country. How can I claim to know? Wow, until this day I’ve posted many topics about Islam and you just said this while ignoring it all. Is it good to cherry pick my post eh? Is it good to ignore legitimate topics just by excuse? Oh, you haven’t learnt it for years, you didn’t know Arabic, blah, blah, blah but in the end my queries still went unchallenged.
The question is how can you claim to know it?
You wrote, “Muslims study for years”
Petty excuse and not includes that history, deed, real example, claim, and logic had made differences. Year of study is meaningless if you only have faith.
You wrote, “Learn Arabic, history and sects and do not twist facts, leave out details, Half quote and miss history”
As I’ve proven to you but you didn’t even dare to read, sects didn’t have any influence to Muhammad. It was the other way around and true Islam influence sects. The greater influence the closer they are to Muhammad.
I didn’t even care about sect’s history coz the root is not there. In here, we talk about Muhammad’s history and you should deal with that.
You wrote, “How can one be a ''scholar'' or ''have evidence of Islam being evil'' when others and yourself do not even know the basics ?”
The basic is simple and it is Islamic scripture and logical analysis. Islam is evil because the proof is here and it’s all about Muhammad’s deed, not the sect. Care to start? How can you know that Islam is not evil while you don’t even know the basic aka “reading”?
You wrote, “You can claim I was not busy but I was and do get busy and cannot all the time get around to answering every question or post (there are a lot of post) so think before you claim someone of doing something (automatically think they are lying when they are not)”
Dear, oh dear, missing the point again and again. I didn’t even say you weren’t busy. How many times you misquoted your opponent eh? Read again and I know you have problem reading between lines. The problem muslim had is:
1. Have the time to post so many words but suddenly become busy forever when arrive to “particular point”.
2. Postponed answer is different with missing answer.
3. If you didn’t have any desire to solve anything then why bother writing in the first place? You better shut your mouth/
4. This is computer, kid and it’s easy to answer using any technology available.
5. This is not about “answering all post” but “avoiding my post 100 %”. Know the difference, kid?
Am I clear? Your job is to solve these 5 problems they always have and logically, this is just an excuse if you know how to think properly. If you didn’t even undertstand mine then why did you claim lies about me?
So the people in these ME are starving, oppressed, brutally cracked down n killed. No god/gods can help them. So it is anarchy, mayhems , more mayhems n finally doom.
Funny you can't tell the difference between a question and an accusation.
Why should we believe anything else you say when you cannot understand the simplest of things?
''Read urah Al-Mumtahina''
To correct my self read Surah Al-Mumtahina
-JSOP
Read all of Surah Al-Maeda you will see what it means
It goes on to say and list corruption and doing good for gain ect
quoting one quote (5:51) out of 5:1- 5:112
''(3:28) ''
Read :Surah Al-Mumtahina
60:7-8-9
(7) Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers. (8) Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them – (All) such are wrong-doers. (9)
The video I listed had was backing up what he was saying in the Quran
''Is that what you are doing? Or are you a reformer of Islam, rejecting the Quran and Sunna?''
Are you yet again accusing me of being someone or doing something with out proof
It is quite funny as many things you said I was contradict them self
-JSOP
You all seem to miss (like Robert Spencer and others ) that violences is only for self defence who is trying to hurt the Muslim or in a war and one can not be an aggressor as if they stop the Muslim stops
One example is Ali not killing an unbeliever because the unbeliever spat on him thus making him angry and he would be a killing him out of anger
The greatest Jihad (Struggle) is the Jihad of ones own self to not commit evil deeds and to not sin
-JSOP
Quite a few do not agree with Tafsir Yusuf Ali's commentary and see it as not reliable and filled with speculative statements as I have stated you need to read one in English who does not have a religious or political axe to grind or learn Arabic to fully understand what Islam is
''Quran 9:5 – Fight and slay the unbelievers wherever ye find them. and 9:29 – Fight those who believe not in Allah ''
These are half quotes
The quote in English is :
Real Quote
[9:4-5] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. …
It is talking about war and peace treaties not about just killing unbelievers this is out of context as if you only see what you quoted you would think not about what the quote really means
(A form of manipulation)
(9:29) read all of Surah Al-Tawba
English and Arabic
(2:216 ) read all of Surah Al-Baqara
English and Arabic
Read both of these in context with out half quoting and saying they mean one thing but in fact they mean another.
''So for the first time, being an unbeliever was a capital offense. This is the law that is in effect today.''
Not all Muslim Countries in this day and age and also other ages in history have this rule (I have already link examples of other Muslim empires allowing other religions)
-JSOP
"As you can all see a lot of the quote is taken out of context"
You are missing the context of progressive revelation. The Quran evolved from no fighting allowed at all, then opened to defensive jihad, and then opened to offensive jihad.
Quran 17:106 – It is a Quran which We have divided into parts from time to time, in order that thou mightest recite it to men at intervals: We have revealed it by stages.
Tafsir Yusuf Ali 2317 – The marvel is that these parts, revealed at different times and in different circumstances, should fit together so closely and consistently as they do. All revelation is progressive. The previous revelations were also progressive. Each of them marked a stage in the world's spiritual history. Man's mind does not take in more than his spiritual state will have prepared him for. Allah's revelation comes as a light to illuminate our difficulties and show us the way in actual situations that arise.
Later verses abrogate earlier verses:
Quran 16:101 – When We substitute one revelation for another – and Allah knows best what He reveals in stages – They say, "Thou art but a forger": But most of them understand not.
Tafsir Yusuf Ali 2140 – The doctrine of progressive revelation from age to age and time to time does not mean that Allah's fundamental Law changes. It is not fair to charge a Prophet of Allah with forgery because the Message, as revealed to him, is in a different form from that revealed before, when the core of the Truth is the same, for it comes from Allah (See 2:106, and n. 107)
Quran 2:106 – None of our revelations do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but we substitute something better or similar; knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?
Imran Ahsan Khan Nyazee, Islamic Jurisprudence – The literal meaning of naskh is canceling or transferring. In its technical sense it is used to mean the "lifting (raf') of a legal rule through a legal evidence of a later date." The abrogating text or evidence is called nasikh, while the repealed rule is called mansukh.
Sura 9 is the last revelation about jihad, and 5 is the last that talks about unbelievers, so
Quran 3:85 – Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted of him and he will be of those who have truly failed in the hereafter
leads to:
Quran 9:5 – Fight and slay the unbelievers wherever ye find them.
and 9:29 – Fight those who believe not in Allah
which supercede everything that was said previously about let's all get along.
So the punishment for unbelief has moved from the next life to this life.
People like you may not like violence, but when Muhammad first said it was necessary to kill for jihad, he gave:
Sura 2:216. You are commanded to fight although you dislike it. You may hate something that is good for you, and love something that is bad for you. Idolatry is a greater sin than murder. Leaving Islam means living forever as prisoners of Fire.
So for the first time, being an unbeliever was a capital offense. This is the law that is in effect today.
"A good video about can Muslims befriend none Muslims"
We don't care what your video says. We care about what the Quran says:
Quran 5:51 – O you who believe! do not take the Jews and Christians for friends.
or what Muhammad says (I know – Allah and Muhammad are really the same thing):
Sahih Muslim 4366 – I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims.
More from Allah/Muhammad/Quran:
Quran 3:28 – Let not the believers take the disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security.
Ibn Kathir – In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly but never inwardly.
Abu Darda – We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.
Is that what you are doing? Or are you a reformer of Islam, rejecting the Quran and Sunna?
We don't care what your video says. We care about what the Quran says:
Quran 5:51 – O you who believe! do not take the Jews and Christians for friends.
or what Muhammad says (I know – Allah and Muhammad are really the same thing):
Sahih Muslim 4366 – I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims.
More from Allah/Muhammad/Quran:
Quran 3:28 – Let not the believers take the disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security.
Ibn Kathir – In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly but never inwardly.
Abu Darda – We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.
Is that what you are doing? Or are you a reformer of Islam, rejecting the Quran and Sunna?
"As you can all see a lot of the quote is taken out of context"
You are missing the context of progressive revelation. The Quran evolved from no fighting allowed at all, then opened to defensive jihad, and then opened to offensive jihad.
Quran 17:106 – It is a Quran which We have divided into parts from time to time, in order that thou mightest recite it to men at intervals: We have revealed it by stages.
Tafsir Yusuf Ali 2317 – The marvel is that these parts, revealed at different times and in different circumstances, should fit together so closely and consistently as they do. All revelation is progressive. The previous revelations were also progressive. Each of them marked a stage in the world's spiritual history. Man's mind does not take in more than his spiritual state will have prepared him for. Allah's revelation comes as a light to illuminate our difficulties and show us the way in actual situations that arise.
Later verses abrogate earlier verses:
Quran 16:101 – When We substitute one revelation for another – and Allah knows best what He reveals in stages – They say, "Thou art but a forger": But most of them understand not.
Tafsir Yusuf Ali 2140 – The doctrine of progressive revelation from age to age and time to time does not mean that Allah's fundamental Law changes. It is not fair to charge a Prophet of Allah with forgery because the Message, as revealed to him, is in a different form from that revealed before, when the core of the Truth is the same, for it comes from Allah (See 2:106, and n. 107)
Quran 2:106 – None of our revelations do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but we substitute something better or similar; knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?
Imran Ahsan Khan Nyazee, Islamic Jurisprudence – The literal meaning of naskh is canceling or transferring. In its technical sense it is used to mean the "lifting (raf') of a legal rule through a legal evidence of a later date." The abrogating text or evidence is called nasikh, while the repealed rule is called mansukh.
Sura 9 is the last revelation about jihad, and 5 is the last that talks about unbelievers, so
Quran 3:85 – Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted of him and he will be of those who have truly failed in the hereafter
leads to:
Quran 9:5 – Fight and slay the unbelievers wherever ye find them.
and 9:29 – Fight those who believe not in Allah
which supercede everything that was said previously about let's all get along.
So the punishment for unbelief has moved from the next life to this life.
People like you may not like violence, but when Muhammad first said it was necessary to kill for jihad, he gave:
Sura 2:216. You are commanded to fight although you dislike it. You may hate something that is good for you, and love something that is bad for you. Idolatry is a greater sin than murder. Leaving Islam means living forever as prisoners of Fire.
So for the first time, being an unbeliever was a capital offense. This is the law that is in effect today.
A good video about can Muslims befriend none Muslims:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&am…
In War:
During his life, Muhammad gave various injunctions to his forces and adopted practices toward the conduct of war. The most important of these were summarized by Muhammad's companion and first Caliph, Abu Bakr, in the form of ten rules for the Muslim army:
“O people! I charge you with ten rules; learn them well!
Do no betray or misappropriate any part of the booty; do not practice treachery or mutilation. Do not kill a young child, an old man, or a woman. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food. You will meet people who have set themselves apart in hermitages; leave them to accomplish the purpose for which they have done this. You will come upon people who will bring you dishes with various kinds of foods. If you partake of them, pronounce God's name over what you eat. You will meet people who have shaved the crown of their heads, leaving a band of hair around it. Go in Gods name, and may God protect you from sword and pestilence.
The principles established by the early Caliphs were also honoured during the Crusades, as exemplified by Sultans such as Saladin and Al-Kamil. For example, after Al-Kamil defeated the Franks during the Crusades, Oliverus Scholasticus praised the Islamic laws of war, commenting on how Al-Kamil supplied the defeated Frankish army with food:
“Who could doubt that such goodness, friendship and charity come from God? Men whose parents, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, had died in agony at our hands, whose lands we took, whom we drove naked from their homes, revived us with their own food when we were dying of hunger and showered us with kindness even when we were in their power.”
The early Islamic treatises on international law from the 9th century onwards covered the application of Islamic ethics, Islamic economic jurisprudence and Islamic military jurisprudence to international law, and were concerned with a number of modern international law topics, including the law of treaties; the treatment of diplomats, hostages, refugees and prisoners of war; the right of asylum; conduct on the battlefield; protection of women, children and non-combatant civilians; contracts across the lines of battle; the use of poisonous weapons; and devastation of enemy territory.
Commentators of the Qur'an agree that Muslims should always be willing and ready to negotiate peace with the other party without any hesitation. According to Maududi, Islam does not permit Muslims to reject peace and continue bloodshed.
Islamic jurisprudence calls for third party interventions as another means of ending conflicts. Such interventions are to establish mediation between the two parties to achieve a just resolution of the dispute
More on Rules of War: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_war_in_Isla…
As you can see this is far from what extremist (1%) commit in this day and age
JSOP
All quotes in English
[2:190] You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
[2:191] You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
[2:192] If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[2:193] You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.
This is different from the Arabic it does not say kill or slay it says combat as if you are in mortal combat you have the right to defend yourself but if they stop combating you, you stop Allah does not permit aggression
[6:151] Say, "Come let me tell you what your Lord has really prohibited for you: You shall not set up idols besides Him. You shall honor your parents. You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty – we provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins, obvious or hidden. You shall not kill – GOD has made life sacred – except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand. (disproving what Ali Sina said that Islam allows killing of there own children )
Many say Eye for an Eye is savage yet many countries still have the death penalty and is that not a form of eye for a eye? Killing one who has been proven to have killed
Before one criticise one country to be savage that country should not have a death penalty otherwise they are committing a double standard as criticizing one for killing yet killing themselves
As there are many Muslims who show mercy and do not kill or seek eye for a eye
One example is the acid face attack the victim showed mercy on her attacker that threw acid her face for not marrying her (This acid attack is not in any form justified in any religion or ethics )
Quotes which are half quoted and missunderstood:
Half Quote:
[4:101] "… For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Real Quote
:[4:101] When you travel, during war, you commit no error by shortening your Contact Prayers (Salat), if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you. Surely, the disbelievers are your ardent enemies.
Half quote :9:5] "… fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) …"
Real Quote [9:4-5] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. …
Half quote
[9:14] "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame .
Real Quote
[9:13-14] Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers. You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers.
As you can all see a lot of the quote is cut out and taken out of context and twisted to mean something which is far from what the real quote means.
-JSOP
Everin said: ''We are seeing more troubles, mayhems n killing of the unarmed demonstrators there everyday. Because their religion had encouraged their rulers to practice Mao-style of dictatorship n they could not stand the oppression of these corrupt regimes any more''
Religion has nothing to do with it a dictator is a dictator
If you have read about Islam and history you would know this is not the case (extremist who abuse religion and ethics come in every form in mankind)
Lets not forget those who are perverting democracy by enforcing rules and wars on other countries and sitting down with known dictators who are killing civilians and join themselves with dictators and turning a blind eye to what they get up to. (One example was Muhammad Hosni Sayyid Mubarak who they said was a b''stard but there b''stard thus knew he was doing wrong by his people yet allowed him to do it because he was there ally)
Corruption can be in every form of government
Many of its people are starving by all the wars they have enforcing on countries
Many people are oppressed
Protest have brutal crack downs also
Peace? Many countries and some of its people would disagree as by what I listed
-JSOP
Read the Arabic Quran or one which is not clearly biased and distorted
If you do not wish to learn Arabic (to fully understand the Quran and the many Hadith of each sect you need Arabic and spend years studying) try and find an English Quran translation which does not have a religious or political axe to grind.
Until you read it in Arabic you might have a hard time fully grasping what it is saying (many distorted translations and language double meanings ect)
Other wise you will be reading a text which is far from the true text and will not fully understand Islam
-JSOP
''Thaqq''
To correct myself Taqiyya
-JSOP
''Is there anything usefull knowing sects in Islam and the fact that they curse and kill each other''
You have to have studied before opening your mouth to say they are not Muslims as by this comment hints you have not studied any sect of Islam
How can you claim to know Muslims or Islam are what you say they are when you have not even studied sects or Islam ?
Muslims study for years
Learn Arabic, history and sects and do not twist facts, leave out details, Half quote and miss history
How can one be a ''scholar'' or ''have evidence of Islam being evil'' when others and yourself do not even know the basics ?
You can claim I was not busy but I was and do get busy and cannot all the time get around to answering every question or post (there are a lot of post) so think before you claim someone of doing something (automatically think they are lying when they are not)
I was pointing out as I did not claim any race, gender, religion, Country ect yet all were assumed
I was accused by followers as being as listed here
A Sunni then accused me of killing and hurting Shia
From a Muslim country then said all Muslim ruled countries were savage
From a Western country living off the hard work of the western people in that country
A Terrorist for simply being a Muslim
Going to burn in hell for being a terrorist Muslim
A woman who was deficient in intellect
A Muslim male who abused woman
A paedophile for being a Muslim Male
A Shia who abused Sunni and Sufi
Shia who was a liar practising Thaqq
A liar because I was a Muslim
A human rights person
A Muslim reformist
A none Muslim because I was not a terrorist
All without the facts and meet with abuse which shows you and others no not only dislike Muslims but anyone you assume does not agree with the unwanted abuse of Muslim and the unwanted lies against the Islam faith and Muslim people
The other Muslim already explained about the aorta so I did not need to
You all say Muslims are hateful read your own posts first
-JSOP
Cherry picking detected as always.
Sorry to disappoint too that if you had a commitment to say anything you should finish what you have started otherwise you better shut your mouth from the very start. If you consider all opponents as not important then I can say the same thing. I don’t consider you and muslims as important no matter what they bring and from the fact that they always run 100% we can see who is truly not important. We are not talking about “probability” but “certain fact”.
Fact 1: there is no answer
Fact 2: there is no sign of business in their reason, they just run like thief
Fact 3: still until this day the “not so busy” muslims suddenly changed to “so busy”. What a coincidence. At first, they act like we are important but when cornered, suddenly we become not important. Wow, anyone will lose at least in your own dream.
The busy excuse is pathetic since I’d given the proof that this assumption is proven to be false. You didn’t read again and went on repeating the same silly post. Who got the answer if everyone claims “business” everywhere? Like I said, the answer is easily brought if you actually had it in the first place. This is computer, silly.
You wrote, “You can make up all your wild theories and name call but at the end of the day that is all they are names and theories nothing more”
Ah, the only thing you can get is the wild theory. Sorry to disappoint again that mine is not a theory but logical conclusion. It’s so easy to refute this again as I can call yours as empoty theory too. In the end, yours is just theory and excuse, nothing more.
You wrote, “I have stated a Muslim is a Muslim and you have like others have assumed I come from a certain sect (Shia) and accused me of being a none or innovator (Other members even called me a terrorist and said I was going to burn in hell)”
Oohhh, don’t blame me for stating what your brothers had told me about sects in Islam. You should deal the problem with them first rather that whining to me. Don’t blame me too for your prophet’s act of splitting you into groups. What other members had said is irrelevant to me because I only dealt what’s in front of me, which is a whiner.
Go to hell? Why not? Muslims don’t go straight to heaven, especially the one who corrupts Islam. Hell can be a temporary/permanent place for you depending on what you believe.
You wrote, “All Muslims are Muslims at the end of the day and pointing none and innovator gets Muslims no where”
Say you, not Allah, Quran or hadith. Next time, bring proof. May I remind you that your own words are not reliable because we only accept reliable source which is Islamic source itself?
Is there anything usefull knowing sects in Islam and the fact that they curse and kill each other?
You wrote, “Even said read about other religions and history also (Pail cannon) History of multiple times and countries”
Irrelevant.
You wrote, “I have never said what religion, age, gender, country and race ect I was,”
If you never said it and actually wasn’t a muslim then don’t say anything related to something you don’t actually belong nor have any knowledge of. This is worse than if you are muslim. Now, you have lost one more respect.
You wrote, “All were assumed and meet with hostility and wild theories of ''what I was really trying to do'' with out any facts what so ever (no surprise)”
Yours were assumed and meet with petty denial, childish excuse, and unclear whining. Mine is just analyzing Islam using rational method. I too can easily say that anything you bring will be considered as ”factless rant”, “theory”, and “lies”.
For your info, I always insert fact in my argument. The example is already here, the aorta thingy. You didn’t dare to discuss it, no surprise too.
Note: you have demonstrated an emotional tie to Islam and I can see that in this particular post of yours.
I'm impressed by your insightful and thorough analysis.
I've recently been posting Bill Warner's statement on Muslim logic:
Logic
The Koran advances a logical system. Truth is determined by revelation. No fact or argument may refute the Koran. Logical persuasion is based upon repetition and continued assertion. Another part of the persuasion is personal attacks against those who resist Islam. The Koran advances its argument through threats against specific people and groups. If persuasion fails, then force may be used to settle the logical or political argument.
Another aspect of Koranic logic is the use of name-calling and personal insults to advance the truth. The Koran, with its poetical language and repeated threats and physical violence, bases its logic on emotions. Although its intellectual truth can be contradictory, the contradictions do not need to be resolved. Understanding apparent contradictions is a key to understanding Islamic logic. In unitary logic, a contradiction shows the theory or argument to be false. But in the Koran, a contradiction does not prove an argument to be false. What appears to be logical contradictions are statements of duality that offer two true choices, depending upon the circumstances. This is dualistic logic.
How do we know the Koran is true? Because it contains the words of Allah. How do we know that these are the words of Allah? Mohammed said they were Allah's words. How do we know that Mohammed is Allah's messenger? Mohammed reported that Allah said that Mohammed is His messenger.
Sorry to disappoint you but many people do get busy and you and others are not that important
You can make up all your wild theories and name call but at the end of the day that is all they are names and theories nothing more
I have stated a Muslim is a Muslim and you have like others have assumed I come from a certain sect (Shia) and accused me of being a none or innovator (Other members even called me a terrorist and said I was going to burn in hell)
All Muslims are Muslims at the end of the day and pointing none and innovator gets Muslims no where
I have stated many times to read about all the different sects:
Shia sects: Twelver, Ismaili, Zaidi, Alawi, Alevi
Salafi
Sunni sects: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali
Sufi sects: Nimatullahi, Naqshbandi, Qadiri,Bektashi
To name a few
List is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Sects
Even said read about other religions and history also (Pail cannon) History of multiple times and countries
I have never said what religion, age, gender, country and race ect I was,
All were assumed and meet with hostility and wild theories of ''what I was really trying to do'' with out any facts what so ever (no surprise)
-JSOP
That verse is obviously for you, not me. I should add it with “never make any excuse of what you haven’t had any knowledge of”. The thing you should do is not whether “you think” that I have incomplete knowledge but “you prove” that I’m wrong. It’s that simple.
I know you have cherry picked my posts all this long and that sums it up.
Oh yeah, it “might have” grave consequence and of course you didn’t do any explanation of the actual meaning of that verse.
Note: I didn’t even think any final knowledge, I only knew that Islam is proven to be false and its knowledge is limited.
Ah, so you came to conclusion that everyone, who doesn’t have any answer while this is the most urgent matter related to their religion, win/has answer but somehow can’t show it because of reason more important than Islam?
Kiddo, what is running away? Do you know the meaning of the word? Running means moving away from a place and people do that because they either have something to do or just making excuse or doesn’t have answer and judging from the various “answer” that can be easily cut and pasted from scholars and the position of Islam itself in the heart of muslim, yes, they chose to run because they had no other answer.
Busy? Oh, so they have the time to post so many arguments about Islam and when I countered suddenly they will always 100% become busy? Wow, listen, in this site there is no deadline and work hour. It’s 24/7 so even though you are busy you can still give response using many ways. Cellular Phone nowadays is very practical. There is a big difference between busy (postponed answer) and running (missing answer).
From this point alone I can see that you are not a bright person and added with your complain and disctraction, you are not doing any good impression.
JSOP, I know your style, ok? And I know there a lot of muslims who don’t agree with your view, let alone your group. If you had any answer you would have posted it long ago. I did think of that "busy" reason and found out that this was mere excuse.
So, I ask a simple question: Does the truth have the habit of running away from discussion?
Never think that you have reached the final stage of knowledge and nobody knows more than yourself. Remember! Above everyone endowed with knowledge is another endowed with more knowledge [12/76]. Even the Prophet [p.b.u.h] was asked to keep praying, "O My sustainer! Advance me in knowledge." [20:114]
If you do not have complete knowledge about anything, better keep your mouth shut. You might think that speaking about something without full knowledge is a trivial matter. But it might have grave consequences [24/15-16]
-JSOP
Probability 4:
Allah did say such a thing – Muslims faked it to conceal the fate of Muhammad using the hadith.
Now this is the one muslims won’t like, I’m sure of it. Anyway, this is unlikely to happen too because Muhammad, as a false messenger in this particular verse, should have covered it first and his followers would suspect him if he did say it honestly.
We can safely conclude that this was an oath taken from certain situation, didn’t have any concrete example and pushed by tension. Its bollocks, I assure you. Another reason why I call this as nonsense is the fact that the similar story had also existed in the Bible involving Moses as an appointed messenger. He didn’t deliver the message according to god’s actual message but the worst consequence he received was not this kind of sudden fate. Either Allah wasn’t consistent or he was creating mischief.
I remind you again, scholarship of Islam has nothing to do with intelligence and here, you have proven it yourself, zitouni aka “who cares” muslim. That’s your favorite words, eh? Before claiming anything, why don’t you finish this first and of course my unfinished queries?
For those who are in the discussion of “aorta” especially zitouni:
Come on guys, this discussion forgot about one simple thing and that’s the verses itself:
44. And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
45. We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
46. And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart
In order to cover the subject at hand, let’s play some “if” game, shall we? That’s what you like, right?
Probability 1:
Allah did say such a thing (pretending he’s real) – Muhammad was real prophet – end of story?
Too bad, it isn’t. In here, we got 2 ridiculous claims, one is the threat and the other is the result, a “close one” and that’s a controversy. Why would god create a controversy? Why would Muhammad say such a thing? We all know that verse 44 doesn’t explain specifically to Muhammad but to a “messenger”. Allah had made a fine “oath” that if a messenger used his name he would end his life as if there was a sudden attack with no symptom or sign before. It’s just cut suddenly.
But what if the verse only talks about Muhammad? That would be absurd, unfair, and the credibility of Allah’s motive deserves suspicion. How could he let all false prophets who used his name to gather followers and built religions roam free even until this day? How could he only make it for one prophet? Was he learning? I don’t think so because the false prophets were everywhere before and after Muhammad.
Think for a while (if you have sudden desire to say no as I’ve seen from muslims) and imagine a true prophet, one and only at that time despite the fact that there were others who claimed the same, got a special treatment of punishment out of many and resulted in a controversial death. Think again about what is Quran and what is hadith? What are the differences?
Still don’t want to accept? Want to add another probability? What if the rule of the oath only applied to appointed messenger? Alas, this is unlikely too because in other verse Allah had said that satan did insert false verse into the prophet minds but he prevented it somehow (pretending that this oxymoron doesn’t exist if you know what I mean) although it is not clear if this was 100% working, creating yet another contradictory and vague verse in the Quran. This actually would create another problem because nobody would know the difference between false and true messenger. The true one survives but so does the false one. Again, suspicion should be placed on Allah’s motive.
Probability 2:
Allah didn’t say such a thing – it was made up by Muhammad – it was a false claim
Now, this is easier to digest. As we know from all the proof presented everywhere about the falsehood of Islam, this case is a clear answer to all truth seeker out there. The whole discussion stands on the shaky ground of this unproven verse and that’s what everyone forgot.
Probability 3:
Allah was real but somehow got mixed with false claims – making the verse itself as a false claim – judging from zero case of “sudden mysterious death of false prophets before and after Muhammad”.
Even though this was a false claim, Muhammad couldn’t deny the impression and influence he would receive if he got the similar fate he had sworn from his followers. When the pain comes, no human logically knows which part is the problem because symptom can blur a disease. Of course, Muhammad wouldn’t know it either judging from his ignorant verses about other things and the poison he ate.
Now, what if he just said that his “inside” felt pain and about to burst, not pointing out the specific location of a blood vessel? That wasn’t a good idea because it would create suspicion, question and controversy surrounding his oath and ability as a prophet. Vague and unclear statement like this would spark doubt into his followers and most likely split the apart as we can see that he had already shown his concern over this one in another matter.
The safest route should be mentioning a part which was not the part he had mentioned earlier. With this way, he could express his “pain” clearly and at the same time gave insurance that he passed the oath (assuming heavily that al abhar was the real words he uttered).
As a believer, it’s easy to make stories and magical moments to show that your prophet could actually know hidden knowledge but that’s hardly intelligent and honest, ignoring other problems and cherry picking it.as if there is no hole in your religious story, wouldn’t give intelligent impression.
Oh, sure and they feel intelligent just by saying it. It’s ridiculous just like this zitouni fellow. Bringing multiple foreign language based argument and act like he knows logic is funny to watch. I want to “play” with him for a while and see his reaction.
So you come to the conclusion because someone doesn't answer every post they are some how running from you? How is that any proof at all, People are busy and it is funny how you did not think of that first before saying they were running from your questions (went to the most unlikely conclusion)
-JSOP
You wrote, “This comment points out your double standards bad for a Muslim to make fun of a follower justified if a follower does it (rule for one and not the other ) contradicts your terms of the site also”
The comment is in trouble because you say it is in trouble, the same old tactic eh? When do you want to enter specific topic and prove it? Any generalized, common, unclear statement is easily copied and changed into the reverse position.
I never have any double standard in that comment, only mere fact. What fact? You didn’t read, you could only complain.
You wrote, “Many have read understand and have stated more then once the crimes against innocents are in no way justified in Islam or any religion or none religion”
Many have read, understand and have stated more than once that crimes against Allah’s enemies are justified in Islam. The problem you had is the lack of proof you brought and as for me, I had done my part.
You wrote, “Respect from people who hate a religion for no reason is a respect I do not want or care about”
Irrelevant response. I didn’t respect you because you came here not for answering or solving the problem. You couldn’t understand the reason why I said it, you just complained like a child. It’s your very behavior that makes you lose respect. Learn to differentiate things from now on.
Religion (Islam) is hated because of its ideology and the ideology is bad. Your job is to prove that it isn’t. Kid’s job is to cry and complain. Which one are you?
For your record, religion doesn’t mean “goodness” in dictionary nor in history. You should learn before writing. You have done 2 fallacies in one post, what are they? Learn it yourself.
This comment points out your double standards bad for a Muslim to make fun of a follower justified if a follower does it (rule for one and not the other ) contradicts your terms of the site also
Many have read understand and have stated more then once the crimes against innocents are in no way justified in Islam or any religion or none religion
Respect from people who hate a religion for no reason is a respect I do not want or care about
-JSOP
That's correct. This is not about biology. It is about Muslims believing in Muhammad and what Muhammad said.
An artery is not a vein and vice versa.
Seizing them by right hand? Sure, anything is possible if you use tafsir and by using this we can see that Muhammad’s own power had been taken away right after he felt sick so the command would fall to his companions. After he died, he was of course no longer in charge and his followers split into groups and sects.
There is no prophecy here because the oath didn’t kill anyone and other “false prophets” were safe from this wrath. This is an empty oath and somehow, Muhammad got it.
Be careful of what you wish for…
Ah, so you actually can play some logical deduction about your own god and you weren’t even aware of what your god had done. Let’s see:
God wanted to kill anyone who bring false claim then the result should be, ah, I just gave a very simple example, the founder of the Islamic sect, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or the hated apostle, Paul, or that bloke in Muhammad’s time who had claimed prophet hood and died by beheading (I forgot his name).
None of them died from this “aorta/watin/abhar” thingy. I wonder why?
So, al abhar is not an artery but a vein? Next time, bring the source and don't just quote it. Another dicts seem to be confused and calling al watin as a part of al abhar while many english translations call it "aorta" which itself is the largest artery, meaning it's not a part of it.
This takes a huge assumption that Muhammad was honest in describing his condition as he shouldn’t or couldn’t know any difference regarding heart disease or sickness. What if he remembered his own oath and decided to change the word so that he didn’t shoot his own foot at that time.
Ironically, he swore to death by this kind of disease and he got it. Allah should give another cause totally unrelated to this symptom and left him in peace.
This muslim named zitouni doesn't want the readers to know that Islam has its duty and mission and that is achieved using the guidance of Quranic verses. What is in the verses is an example on how you act and react towards "problems" muslims encounter.
There is no clear limit which one is applicable and which one is not and Quran doesn't even talk about it, meaning it doesn't exist. As usual, talking without proof, a religious invention.
On the contrary, they are completely justified and if you bothered to go straight in to the discussion instead of rambling petty excuse like this maybe you can earn some respect.
You too. 😉
You replied so many but why did you run from me in the other article eh? Let's see, there are 2 subjects as I recall. I have many queries too in details. Why don't you answer it? Oh, yeah, Islamic theology is not about intelligence, it's about cherry picking subjects and believing. Why? It's because they are dealing with books, nothing more. Ops, before you have the urgency to respond you should finish our discussion first. You can't even finish one, let alone all of my queries.
Wrong, it is measured by its fellow humans and surrounding. God who has certain standard of morality is a human god.
Answer my queries and prove it, JSOP. I see your brother here is running too. You claim that you are intelligent but your post doesn't show that. 😉
Bigotry is a sickness and Islam has it. 😉
Properly credentialed Western scholars have been publishing on Islam for centuries. Muslim clerics are not accepted in peer-reviewed academic journals because their work does not meet academic standards.
He said my Ahbhar and not my Watin . In Arabic this expresion just mean I am about to die thats all
who told you we did not allow them ???? . If you pass university entrance exam you can persue degree in Islamic theology . There are many Christians who live in the Arab world , but they are not interested in persueing degree in Islamic theology , I do not know why . These people want to critisize Koran without credentials and this is not accepted .
Western scholarship knows far more about the Quran than so-called Muslim scholars. Western scholars use higher criticism (external evidence). Muslim scholars only use lower criticism (internal evidence). Western scholars determine the truth based on the facts. Muslim scholars assume the Quran is the truth and bend the facts to fit.
scrutator said: ''Osama bin Laden and other muslim mujahideen are (were) RIGHT, for by killing unrelated innocent non-muslims ''
Killing of an innocent is a big no no in all faiths you would have known this is you studied Islam
Even in times of war it is a big no no (Read Rules of War)
Remember bigotry is a sickness
-JSOP
"All koranic experts are koran believers . Unlike in Christian world where they have hundreds of biblical scholars who are atheist." Why all the "koranic experts" are muslims? Why no non-believer is allowed, unlike in the "christian world"? Is it because the muslims are afraid of what they might find? You degrade Shoebat and sultan (both native arabic speakers) for not being experts but would you muslims ever allow a non-muslim expert to do serious research? We all know the answer to that, so don`t complain about these people not being experts.
I have stated that those who commit these acts contradict Islam and are not justified
I have stated about Muslims killing each other which is bad and also contradicts Islam
Muslims should just call themselves Muslims.
Also to study all Islam sects and history (interesting read even if you are not Muslim )
A pun on my name is this not the same as others making fun of Ali Sinas followers names or is it different because I do not agree with anything Ali Sina and followers says?
-JSOP
U should read n educate yrself about world affairs n not stuck with religious theology n teachings. Don't read but see the Aljazeera Arab news everyday n watch the crumbling of many ME countries where muslims killing muslims in the thousands n counting, with imported weapons from infidel countries. U should cry instead of beating around bushes here.
BTW, are u a prosecuted Bahais or Ahmadis ?
Ali Sina said : If you think you are superior to David Woods that is fine.
Yes I am superior than him in knowledge of Arabic and Islam and I did not mean racially
Ali Sina said : But if you think by beliteling him you can win the argument, you are mistaken.
The man has belittled himself long before I did it . And I have already won the argument you are just to arrogant to accept it .
Ali Sina said : He is quoting from the Quran and hadith. Just answer his argument, i.e. if you can. Don't engage in obvious logical fallacies.
You got to be an expert to understand what you are quoting . Just look at what happened with the word Watin and Abhar . You think he would have made that stupid mistake had he read the verse and Hadith in Arabic . I do not think so . I can quote from books of medicine , but I would not understand what I am quoting .
Ali Sina said : The question is why he said such thing. Well, he said it because he know he was a liar and maybe in the back of his mind there was this fear that God would kill him by cutting his aorta. So when he filt pain in his chest, the first thing that passed his mind is that God is cutting his aorta. After all he knew he was lying.
It does not make sense because no liar will be afraid from his lies . Your assumption would make sense if for example Jew Rabbi or Christian priest told to the prophet if you are false prophet God wil cut your aorta .
Ali Sina said : Is ad hominem your only replay? I have seen David's shows on TV and he is pretty much knowlegeable about what he talks about.
You are not qualified to grade him because you and him are the same brand . it has to be done by people with credentials .
Ali Sina said : But who care about David Wood or Ali Sina. Answer the points raised and stop attacking the person.
I am not attacking his personality I am attacking his credentials .
Ali Sina said : Tell you the truth, I too don't think he died of that because such disease does not exist, unless God invented it just for him.
How do you know that disease did not exist ? . As I said you cannot know which disease killed the prophet without medical autopsy . I watched show named daring question in Arabic evangelical TV channel by the name Al hayat or the life . The host of the show was a Moroccan man by the name Rachid . It was about prophet and epilepsy and Rachid interviewed you . They came to the conclusion that prophet died as result of epilepsy and now we have another evangelical who came out to us with video that he died of poison which cut his aorta . Now which one is it ? This people cannot even make up their mind .
Ali Sina said : So you think he did not die as the result of what he said he is dying? Are you saying he was ignorant about the cause of his death? Why would you follow a man who did not know of what he was dying?
Prophet of Islam was just human being like all of us . He only knew what God wants him to know . If God did not want him to know about hidden things then he would not know it just all of us . There was an incident when he lost his camel and the hypocrites were saying the guy claimed to be a prophet and he could not even know where he can find his lost camel . When prophet heard it he said I only know hidden things when I am told it by God . So God right away disappointed the hypocrites and let his prophet know where he can find his lost camel .Then the prophet said to one of his companion go to place so and so and you will find my camel his rope got stucked in tree brunch and this is exactly how he was found .
Ali Sina said : "There are many ways to detect false prophet not just one ."
Can't agree more. There are thousands of reasons to show Muhammad was not a prophet of God. Just read my book.
As I said your ignorance about Islam deceived you and made you see what you read is lie that's all
Ali Sina said : In that video David gives at least ten reason. You did not refute any of them. You don't want to read my book. So I asked you to at least watch these videos.
I refuted the whole video
Ali Sina said : We did not say it was a fulfilled prophecy. We say it was divine retribution to make him suffer and humiliate him.
And I proved that he did not die as the verse described it .
show me in those two verses the word Fitna . Eh go ahead liar . From where did you get the word Fitna ????? . Had you read the two verses in Arabic you would not have made that mistake .There is not any better evidence that you do not read koran in Arabic than this one . So your interpretation of verses was based on the word fitna which does not exist at all in the verses therefore the whole thing is screwed up LOL . You need to repeat the interpretation of the verses .
Ali Sina said : No we don't have any medical report. But we have his own words. Do the words of the prophet weigh less than the medical report for you?
The word of any patient does not count . We need to see autopsy report that prophet died with poison because nobody died from eating poison after 3 years . If you tell somebody that you and friend of yours eat poisoned food and your friend died on the spot , but you did not he is going to tell you that's miracle .
33. 36 The punishment of those Who wage war against God And His Apostle, and strive
With might and main For mischief through the land Is: execution, or crucifixion,
Or the cutting off of hands And feet from opposite sides, Or exile from the land:
That is their disgrace In this world, and A heavy punishment is theirs
In the Hereafter;
Here are the two verses in transliteration
5 : 32. Min ajli thalika katabna AAala banee isra-eela annahu man qatala nafsan bighayri nafsin aw fasadin fee al-ardi fakaannama qatala alnnasa jameeAAan waman ahyaha fakaannama ahya alnnasa jameeAAan walaqad jaat-hum rusuluna bialbayyinati thumma inna katheeran minhum baAAda thalika fee al-ardi lamusrifoona
5: 33. Innama jazao allatheena yuhariboona Allaha warasoolahu wayasAAawna fee al-ardi fasadan an yuqattaloo aw yusallaboo aw tuqattaAAa aydeehim waarjuluhum min khilafin aw yunfaw mina al-ardi thalika lahum khizyun fee alddunya walahum fee al-akhirati AAathabun AAatheemun
The translators of koran and Hadith did good job to you guys by laying trap and they had you take the bet not knowing where you were heading to LOL. Here are some more plunder and evidence that you do not read koran in Arabic as you claimed . Here is you in this link trying to make your stupid interpretation as usual of two koranic verses .
http://alisina.org/does-the-quran-prohibit-killin…
On account of this, WE prescribed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killed a person it shall be as if he killed all mankind; -unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land- and whoso saved a life, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. And our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, Yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.”
You said : The word mischief is the translation of the word “fitnah”, which means dissention, opposition, sedition.
Then you went on to say : What is the punishment of those who spread mischief?
And you quoted this verse
I can say that there are hundreds of biblical scholars who left Christianity , but I have never heard koranic scholar who left Islam . Yes there are many Muslims who left Islam , but those are ignorant people about Islam just like you so I do not care .
Ali Sina said : Yes there is plenty of proof that he lied. I have given thousands of them. David gave ten of them in that video. Would be nice if you tried to refute them logically, i.e. without attacking David personally.
Ignorant men like you and David wood are unqualified to criticize Islam . You showed me the video who killed Muhamed and I debunked it . The prophet did not lie , it was you who screwed it because you are Arabic ignorant . You and David wood thought the word in question aorta in verse is the exact the same word in Hadith because you do not read koran and hadith in Arabic .Poor guys LOL . That's how I caught you lying . Had you read that verse and the hadith in Arabic instead of English you would not have get excited and post that video then send it to me . You were choked when I point it out to you .
Ali Sina said : If he succeeds, I give him $50,000 and the same amount also to you. This is in recognition of helping me see the truth. But money is nothing.
You have been bragging about this for so many years . May I ask you who is going to be the judge for the debate and decide who won ? Of course it will be you and your followers LOL . No this is what we should do the money should be given to an independent group to hold it then we will have live debate after the independent group chose certified experts in Islam to be the jury . After the debate is over the jury will announce the decision who won the debate and you got to accept their decision then money should be given to us if we won
Ali Sina said : The most important thing is to help the world to see Islam is a true. There are so many people who left Islam because of me. All that will stop and I will try to convince most of them to revert.
Ali Sina said : It was then that I saw the trick . Had I relied only on English translations, I would have missed a lot of details and maybe I would not have seen the light.
You know no Arabic so there is no way for you to see the so called tricks . So stop lying
Ali Sina said : Can you convince your top notch Arabic speaking scholar to debate with me and prove me wrong.
I am doing that here .
Ali Sina said : He should be able to write in Arabic of course, or you have to act as translator.
Why you need me as your translator ? . I thought you said that you read koran in Arabic and understand it . You are lousy liar you contradicted yourself in next line LOL
We know that the first preposition did not take place so this preposition is false . No need for me to check second preposition even it is true it does not matter .We can conclude that the combine preposition which was in this case the verses in koran to be false therefore the scripture was not fulfilled on the prophet .
Ali Sina said : As it happens I left Islam when I read the Quran in Arabic.
Liar you cannot read Arabic and understand it
I used Persian and English translation to make sure I don't miss anything.
You can only understand Koran when you read it in Farsi or English and this does not count because the rule says you have to understand it in Arabic in oreder that your interpretation can be accepted .
Ali Sina said : That is exactly what happened to Muhammad. God seized him by his hand and gave him a severe punishment.
Let me explain it for you . God says in the verse we will seized him by his right hand meaning God is going to allow the prophets enemy to put an end to this false prophet by grabbing him and dragging him in street their leader would humiliate him front of the crowd and then he would order his men cut his Watin . None of this thing happened if you say yes then show me that . There are two things must happen in order the scripture to be fulfilled . God will size the right hand of the prophet and prophet´s Watin will get cut . Lets analyze this using logic . When two logical prepositions connected by conjunction and in order for the combine logical preposition to be true you got to have the first preposition to be true and the second one must also be true .
All koranic experts are koran believers . Unlike in Christian world where they have hundreds of biblical scholars who are atheist . There is you , Walid shoebat and Wafa sultan and none of you is koranic expert . You do not like me to ask you for credentials and yet you require that to people who have positive opinion about Islam . Here is you
Quoting the opinions of famous people as the evidence of the truth of a religion is a logical fallacy. Even famous people can be wrong, but the fact that none of these people were scholars of Islam or had read its holy book or its history makes their opinion about Islam worthless.
http://alisina.org/einstein-and-islam/
I agree with you those people were not scholars of Islam and so is you , David wood , Wafa sultan and Walid shoebat . Why you do not apply this rules on you and others . To say that those people did not read koran and history of Islam is ludicrous . How do you know that ? They are not stupid to make comment about Islam without reading something about it .
Did you see now yourself in this analogy . You are not koranic expert , you just read koran by yourself , you have never been taught by the expert and without knowing tools that will allow you to interpret koran correctly you will be making fool of yourself which I will prove later . In other words you are self taught and nobody give damn about this kind of people . So you are just like fake construction engineer who tried to fool the owner of the building . I just want to state here something if it were real scenario the crook construction company will not send somebody who is not real engineer because they will get caught they will have to look for somebody who is a real engineer and crook as well , but in your case the people who hired you could not find an ex Muslim who is real koranic expert because they do not exist
Oh boy any time you make an analogy you dig hole to yourself . Suppose somebody has a building and you come to him and tell him your building is going to collapse unless you fix the problem . The first question that he is going to ask you , how do you know that , are you structural engineer and your reply was : Not really I just read books about structural engineering I know some basic mathematics and physics and I have never gone to any university , he is going to tell you get lost you must be crook working for construction company and they sent you to lie to me so they can come to do unnecessary work and bill me .And he will tell you boy I myself structural engineer I was graduated with PhD degree from MIT and if there was something wrong with my building I would have known it and I do not need somebody like you to show me structured defect in the building .
Ali Sina said : Let me make an example. You may know a building with all its details. You know its floor plan, every detail of its decoration, the designs on its walls and ceilings, etc. But only a trained eye of a structural engineer can see the building will fall. Islam has no foundation. It is founded on the sands of lies. You are so enamored with its details that you can't see this building is doomed and don’t want to admit it. I on the other hand, don't care about the details. I examine its structure and see the cracks. I see the building is propped with pillars of violence, fear and censorship. I know it is only a matter of time for it to collapse. You can turn around and say to me, “how can you say such thing when I know this building in all its details and you don't?” Yes you do, but what you don't know is the science of structures. I don't care about the design, what tiles are used on the floor and how expensive is the chandelier. I see the structure, make my calculations and predict this building will fall soon.
Ali Sina said : You may even have memorized the entire Quran but I understand it and you don't. Knowing something and understanding it are two different things.
You who is Arabic ignorant understand Koran better than me ? . You may have read koran , but not in Arabic and you have never studied it in your life . Reading something and studying it by the help of an expert in the field is two different things . I can read a book of biology , but I will not understand it without the help of an expert that's why we have teacher .
Ali Sina said : Don't let your Arab vain glory blind you. You speak Arabic but don't understand Islam and Muhammad.
You are delusional person . To understand koran Arabic language is a must and not an option just like to understand engineering courses math is a must . If somebody knows basic thing about math and he tells you that he is an engineer then he has lied to you . There was never ever in the history of Islam koranic expert and Arabic ignorant just there was never ever in the history of mankind engineer and math ignorant . And I know about you that you are Arabic ignorant which I will prove it later . Did you get it now ? .
The time for sophistry, apologetics, euphemisms, and projections is past. We live in an age where the historic, doctrinal, and contemporary facts of Islam are increasingly exposed for the world to see, in part thanks to the Internet and satellite, which defy censorship. Operating according to this fact — that is, respecting people’s intelligence — is the first step to meaningful dialogue.
Your books say what they say. You cannot wiggle out of that with your nonsense about context and twisting. If you read the Quran in context with the Sunna, it becomes very clearly obvious what Muhammad was doing when he invented each Sura.
Study and Learn
Good cannot compensate for ignorant. Your ignorance has enabled Muhammad's fraud to be perpetuated in your generation.
Study and learn.
Read and educate yourself please
-JSOP
To add it does not matter how educated someone is or claims to be
It is measure on how good a person really in on the inside or in Gods eyes
Does good acts and does not expect anything in return and has faith in God ect
Most seem to forget this
-JSOP
''Your analogy is also a way of restating the fact that any educated Westerner has an advantage over Muslims because Muslim knowledge traditions have no critical thinking. ''
Claiming something and having it a totally different things
Many Muslims are well educated in many things
''Islam has no concept of scientific method, academic rigor, and scholarly standards.''
If you studied Islam or went to an Islamic country you would know this is not true
''Muslims come ill-equipped to the debate, but since their theology tells them they are superior, they do not even guess that they are unprepared, less knowledgeable, and the possibility that they could be wrong never occurs to them''
No need to put words in Muslims mouth. I thought you were only criticising Islam and not Muslims ? Didn't you just say ''any educated Westerner has an advantage over Muslims''
''They simply come here to wage verbal jihad and defeat the infidels.''
Read and understand what Jihad is please
It is funny how you say Muslims are savage and have no knowledge, yet you and others are acting the way you accuse Muslims as acting
-JSOP
Court of who a group of extremist that say Allah is the devil, lie threaten ect
Even though most of mankind knows this is not the case at all
To use a legal term you need to understand law
Look at this ''evidence'' it is bias out of context and twisted so many times getting a meaning that has nothing to do with Islam altogether
''Trial'' and convicted by a bias ''trial'' that is based on ''evidence'' which is far from truthful.
''Judged'' by a person who openly says he is bias towards Islam
Little legal term: Kangaroo court
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_court
-JSOP
"You don't want to read my book."
Islam has been tried and convicted. If anyone wants to appeal the verdict, they must examine the evidence. Anyone who does not want to read your book has no case.
Your analogy is also a way of restating the fact that any educated Westerner has an advantage over Muslims because Muslim knowledge traditions have no critical thinking. There is no discipline of Quranic criticism the way we have Biblical criticism in the West. Islam has no concept of scientific method, academic rigor, and scholarly standards. Islam is at best a legal system, hence Muslim scholarship is called jurisprudence. This means the Quran and Sunna are read the way we read law books or math books in the West where everything that is stated is accepted to be a given fact. There is no analysis in Islam about whether or not the givens are really facts or not. Hence Islam has only what academics call Lower Criticism, or analysis based only on what the texts say, and no Higher Criticism which is based on evidence external to the texts, including interdisciplinary knowledge such as archaeology, history, and science. Muslims come ill-equipped to the debate, but since their theology tells them they are superior, they do not even guess that they are unprepared, less knowledgeable, and the possibility that they could be wrong never occurs to them. They simply come here to wage verbal jihad and defeat the infidels.
''You can never learn the truth from another Muslim You have to either read the Quran and hadith on your own, as I did, or listen to someone like me to explain them to you.''
''Muslims will only lie. It is in their blood.''
Muslims are all liars is this not insulting Muslims and stereotyping all as deceitful people ?
Many read and understand the Quran and Hadith they do not need your false Interpretation there are many decent Muslims in the world
JSOP
if I want to use somebody to attack Christianity I would use world renow biblical expert just to be in safe side so Chrsitians will not have the opportunity to discredit my back up . I feel embarassed on your behalf and insulted by you when you use this guy against me to disaprove islam . this is like telling me that this dumb ignorant Arabic ignorant knows Islam better than you .While he can be my student if he wishes to learn the correct Islam . But I will reply to this video when I have time
Ali Sina said : He laghed at the gullibility of his followers thinking such thing is impossible. He never thought he would die like that. But he was wrong. God made a miracle and invented a disease just for him to show to the world that this man was a liar
Read above and see how ignorant you are about Arabic language , Tafsir and hadith
Ali Sina said : Anyway, let us move on. Watch another video by David and tell how can you explain it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz7QwOAf4Ww
If somebody does not know David wood and never watch his videos he will think that he is world renown koranic expert , but ironically the man is dumber and more ignorant than you are about Arabic and Islam . I am surprised that you as former Muslim had to rely on this ignorant guy to debate me
@ worldpeace
Wonderful ! You have encapsulated the 'problem with Islam' very well indeed !
Thanks !!!
zitouni, you wrote
"……. this verse it is history and it cannot be applied today ….."
In trying to read and understand the Quran (as well as the Hadiths and Sirat), do realise these facts as stated by Quran itself:
1) It is easy to understand,
2) It is applicable for all times to come.
Unlike the Old Testament of the Bible, the Quran DOES NOT state a historical occurrence (therefore it is not in the past tense), rather it gives what it claims is the ultimate truth (with no more versions to appear ever again !) and is applicable till the Day of Judgement !
Hence, you are WRONG in saying Quranic verses are not applicable today and Osama bin Laden and other muslim mujahideen are (were) RIGHT, for by killing unrelated innocent non-muslims they apply the Quranic verses correctly and attempt to authenticate the verses !
Ali Sina said : Let us say I claim to be a prophet and say if I were a false prophet, God will make me burst in fire. Now spontaneous combustion is extremely rare. Less than one in a billion people die of spontaneous combustion. So I am pretty convinced that this is not going to happen to me and no one will find out that I am a liar. But as it happens I die of spontaneous combustion. Does this mean that I was a prophet or a liar?
There are many ways to detect false prophet not just one . I would need to study your message too and see what you got . Dying the way you have predicted might be just coincidental .
Ali Sina said : No Zitouni, Muhammad did not foretell that he would die as the result of cutting aorta. He said if he were a liar, God would sever his aorta .
Where did I say that ? I used premises do you know what mean ? . You guys which claimed it was fulfilled prophecy and not me because I do not believe that he died as result of cutting his Watin.
Ali Sina said : And as for being wise, Muhammad wasn’t wise at all .
Since you hate our prophet he is going to be anything for you . Your opinion does not matter to me especially when it comes from somebody with zero credentials about Islam
Ali Sina said : Do you think it was wise for him to eat the food Zeinab bint Harith had prepared, after he had killed her father, uncle and husband? A man who does not have enough commonsense, cannot be a prophet.
Prophet had married Safiya she too was Jewish lady and nothing happened to him
Ali Sina said : He never thought he would die like that. But he was wrong. God made a miracle and invented a disease just for him to show to the world that this man was a liar.
This is reasoning of 8 year old kid and not of an adult . Yes indeed God made a miracle and saved prophet´s life while his companion died right away from poison .
Ali Sina said : He said so. He said it many times. He felt that his aorta was severed. Did he know what he was talking about or not? If yes, then God had disgraced him in exact same way he said God would, if he were a liar. If no, then the man was an ignoramus. If he could not know of what he was dying how can you trust him in anything?
What I said before about the expression ? . Let me repeat it again whoever understand the verse and hadith literally makes fool out of himself
Ali Sina said : Please note that such disease does not exist. The only person in history that died like that was Muhammad.
Which disease you are talking about . Do you have medical report of the prophet so we can know which disease killed him .
Ali Sina said : Zitouni, I realize you are doing your best to believe but I doubt you are succeeding in fooling yourself.
I am using my mind and reading books written by top experts in Islam in Arabic and listening to their lecture too so far what they have said is convincing to me . I think if you had known Arabic the way I do and you had done what I did you would not have left Islam .
Ali Sina said : you are smart enough to realize Muhammad is busted.
Yes I am smart enough to realize that you get busted trying to fool me with wrong interpretation of koranic verse and a hadith .
Ali Sina said : The man is exposed as a liar, by his own admission. Now you have to ask yourself whether your submission to Muhammad or to God. If God exists he has given his answer. He has exposed Muhammad as a liar.
Do you know how many times you have repeated Muhamed liar ??? Why are you obsessed with that , but you got no proof that he lied .
Ali Sina said : Yes, it would have been wiser to keep his mouth shut. However, he thought since the only way one’s aorta can be severed is by a sword,
From where did you get this saying of the prophet . If you cannot get the source of that then you are a liar and not our prophet
Ali Sina said : he stayed away from battle fields. He never participated in any person-to-person combat. He wore two coats of mail (chain link armor) and always stayed behind, protected by his bodyguards. So he felt pretty secure that no one will be able to cut his aorta.
Prophet participated in warfare when he was just 15 years old . If he were coward he would have just stayed at home and send others to fight for him like all Arab leaders do today .
Ali Sina said : but he was wrong. He did not count on God. In fact he did not think that God exists. If Muhammad believed in God he would not have lied so much about him with no fear.
Now we got Atheist sorry a former atheist Ali Sina more believer in God than Prophet Mohamed himself wow I am so happy about that .
Ali Sina said : Seizing by his hand is not a punishment. It means we will get hold of him.
This is what we have been saying all along to you guys Islam critics you got to learn Arabic first then criticizes Islam. You do not know even one Arabic expression and yet you are explaining to me the verse . This is the meaning of seizing by his right hand
Is taking him by force . This expression is used by Arabs to humiliate the person . Usually Arabs take the person who is under punishment from his right hand as the Sultan would say to whom he wants to punish him , take this man right hand and this will be understood by sultan´s men that we have ordered a severe and exaggerated punishment for him
Ali Sina said : or listen to someone like me to explain them to you. Muslims will only lie. It is in their blood.
LOL you must be delisional person. I who is native Arabic speaker and have study Islam for 30 years will go and listen to somebody who cannot even read Arabic and understand it . You must be kidding because I can be your teacher of Islam and Arabic . Muslims scholars are not liars like you .
Ali Sina said : All the Quran is false. God had nothing to do with Muhammad. Muhammad was an impostor. And God did punish him by severing his aorta. You ask why he did not do it sooner? I can't read the mind of God. Maybe he wanted to gather fuel for his hell and wanted Muhammad to deceive the evil people so there is enough flesh to burn for eternity. I don't know. One thing is sure is that Muhammad was a liar. Why God does certain things is something I can never understand. I am a vagan because I don't like cruelty to animals. And yet this God designs the world in such a way that the sustenance of some creatures should depend on destroying the lives of other creaturs. I cannot understand why God does certain things. But I can understand that Muhammad was a liar. That is why my site is not about God but about Muhammad.
I am glad I finally made atheist Ali Sina God believer person
Ali Sina said : You can never learn the truth from another Muslim. You have to either read the Quran and hadith on your own, as I did,
Why do not you enroll in Islamic university and find out about Islam . Many Christians did that about Christianity such as world renown biblical scholar Bar Ehrman and they left it after they find out what church teaches was different what university teaches . You alone cannot learn especially you are Arabic ignorant . You have to be schooled by experts in the field . This will help you convincing Muslims when you talk about Islam because you will be man with credentials and not some damn ignorant big mouth person . I am still waiting for some world renown koranic expert like world renown bible expert Bart Ehrman to disapprove koran is wrong all we got so far are people like you trying to disapprove koran wrong and they end up making fool of themselves .
Ali Sina said : However, it is a futle argument. Even if Muhammad had use al abhar, it would still be the same.
Not according to Arabic experts
Ali Sina said : his is just a tip of the iceberg. There are millions of things we have found in the Quran and hadith that show your prophet was a liar.
You could not prove any . Your ignorance of Arabic language , Koranic studies , Hadith studies made you think what you read are lies just Look at about Abhar and el watin you were totally wrong . I am sure you were choked to find out that
Ali Sina said : No, it just means people forget the details. So if in one hadith al abhar is used instead of al watin, it is because people forget the details. Again, as I said it is insubstantial.
No , in all Hadiths it came as Al Abhar so they cannot all be wrong
Ali Sina said : The word used in the Quran is الْوَتِينَ al watin. This is the same word use in hadiths where Muhammad says he feels as if his aorta is being severed.
No it is not
ا عائشة ، ما أزال أجد الم الطعام الذي أكلت بخيبر ، فهذا أوان انقطاع أبهري من ذلك السم ) ؟
ثُمَّ لَقَطَعْنَا مِنْهُ الْوَتِينَ
The hadiths were collected two hundred years later. Is it not possible that people used a different word. Unlike the verses of the Quran the hadiths were not memorized. People remembred the story and then narrated them in their own words.
You got to prove it to me . You can not use an assumption . This assumption can backfire on you because prophet may have said my back hurts me and Aisha used her own words and said Al Abhar .
There are several hadiths describing the massacre of the bani Quriaza. The numbers varry between 600, 700, 750, 800 and 900. Does this mean the massacre did not happen.
Bad analogy for this hadith , but good for hadith about age of Aisha because it deals with numbers too and not words of course it will not serve your purpose because you want it be 9 years old so you can claim prophet was pedophile , but when it came to Abhar all sudden you cry out this must have been mistake you have double standard
If we analyze the verse carefully we can see that this verse does not apply on the prophet . God says that he will take care of this false prophet if he only make just SOME false claims about him and it will be swift , quick and urgent and not after so many years . if you know Arabic the letter lam connected to the verbs take and cut indicates in Arabic grammar swift quick urgent response from God and the word Thuma (then ) means there is order to be followed first we will take his right hand then second we will cut his Watin . So when did the first punishment take place ? . From this we can notice this verse has a lot holes in it and the scripture could not be fulfilled on prophet .
If Al Abhar and Watin are one and the same in the language of Arabs these renown Mufasirs would have said it .
Ancient book Lisan al Arab ( Tongue of the Arab ) by Ibn Manzur
Watin : is source and vein in the heart
Al Abhar : is vein in the back
conclusion : The ancient Arabs called the vein in the heart Al Watin and the one on the back al abhar
Ali Sina said : Let us assume the hadith uses Abhar. Is there really that much of difference?
The difference is minor.
A lot difference according to top experts . I have already explained to you what it means we will cut his Watin it is used as metaphorical expression just like the expression we will rip off his gusts in English . If somebody understand the verse and the Hadith literally he has made fool of himself .
Abbas said : (Al-Watin) refers to the artery of the heart, and it is the vein that is attached to the heart.'' This has also been said by `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Al-Hakim, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak, Muslim Al-Batin and Abu Sakhr Humayd bin Ziyad. Muhammad bin Ka`b said, " (Al-Watin) is the heart, its blood, and whatever is near it .
can you hope to dead?
Buddy, a**O, human tolerance has limit.
Ask any Indian muslim who abuses hindus and think that they discriminate muslims whether they would like to settle in Pakistan, Bangladesh or Afganistan. After all, Pakistan was created so that muslims of Indian subcontinent can have their own land, isn't it? Why stay in India when you know that hindus will discriminate against muslims?
Moreover, learn this truth:
1. Pakistan, which was created based on assumed superiority of Islam over Hinduism has borne the all evident fruits of Islam:
Hindus population reduced from 15% in 1947 (Creation of Pakistan, in the region of west Pakistan, ) to 1% (today).
Bangladesh (East pakistan) has done the same, reduced hindu population from 22% (1947, creation as East pakistan) to 9% (today).
Muslims population in India has increased from 9% (1947) to 13%(today).
2. India subsidizes muslims for haj trip. I, an Indian hindu, pay for you, the muslim terrorist.
3. India being 85% majority hindu have allowed Sharia system in parallel with India's legal system.
'truthabouthinduism',
There are 2 ways to approach life:
1. Be a shallow minded scumbag and try to defend your religion, race etc.
2. Be a human being and try to understand and embrace the concept that humanity is one's only religion.
You are of the first category.
You became enraged that somebody named 'Arya Anand' (name sounds hindu, isn't it?) is spitting on your terrorist allah and pimp muhammad (piss be upon the scumbag).
One engages in 'Tu Quoque' fallacy (like you just did) when one doesn't have arguments to defend one's own position.
a good site for you truthabouthinduism.wordpress.com
We can't say for sure there is no God but we can say for certain that there is no god as described in religions especially Islamic god "Allah" invented by Muhammad.
That post is weeks old and the person you replied knew what Islam is now. 😉
The above golden advice applies to my dear Dr Ali Sina too! xD
Mr Zitouni, Dr Ali Sina is right. I totally agree with him and confirmed the fact that Muhammad was truly a false prophet because the Quran contains so many lies as compared with past historical records. It's time for you to ask my beloved Lord Jesus Christ to come into your heart and circumcise your heart and mind and deliver you from this horrible cult.
Let us assume the hadith uses Abhar. Is there really that much of difference? The hadiths were collected two hundred years later. Is it not possible that people used a different word. Unlike the verses of the Quran the hadiths were not memorized. People remembred the story and then narrated them in their own words.
There are several hadiths describing the massacre of the bani Quriaza. The numbers varry between 600, 700, 750, 800 and 900. Does this mean the massacre did not happen. No, it just means people forget the details. So if in one hadith al abhar is used instead of al watin, it is because people forget the details. Again, as I said it is insubstantial. The difference is minor.
The word used in the Quran is الْوَتِينَ al watin. This is the same word use in hadiths where Muhammad says he feels as if his aorta is being severed. However, it is a futle argument. Even if Muhammad had use al abhar, it would still be the same.
Let us move on. Watch the other video and explain it please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz7QwOAf4Ww&fe…
This is just a tip of the iceberg. There are millions of things we have found in the Quran and hadith that show your prophet was a liar. Yes I know it is difficult to face the truth. It was also hard for me. It took me two years to admit it to myself. But facts are overwhelming. You can never learn the truth from another Muslim. You have to either read the Quran and hadith on your own, as I did, or listen to someone like me to explain them to you. Muslims will only lie. It is in their blood.
All the Quran is false. God had nothing to do with Muhammad. Muhammad was an impostor. And God did punish him by severing his aorta. You ask why he did not do it sooner? I can’t read the mind of God. Maybe he wanted to gather fuel for his hell and wanted Muhammad to deceive the evil people so there is enough flesh to burn for eternity. I don’t know. One thing is sure is that Muhammad was a liar. Why God does certain things is something I can never understand. I am a vagan because I don’t like cruelty to animals. And yet this God designs the world in such a way that the sustenance of some creatures should depend on destroying the lives of other creaturs. I cannot understand why God does certain things. But I can understand that Muhammad was a liar. That is why my site is not about God but about Muhammad.
Seizing by his hand is not a punishment. It means we will get hold of him.
Zitouni, I realize you are doing your best to believe but I doubt you are succeeding in fooling yourself. You are smart enough to realize Muhammad is busted. The man is exposed as a liar, by his own admission. Now you have to ask yourself whether your submission to Muhammad or to God. If God exists he has given his answer. He has exposed Muhammad as a liar.
“How did we know that prophet his aorta was cut?”
He said so. He said it many times. He felt that his aorta was severed. Did he know what he was talking about or not? If yes, then God had disgraced him in exact same way he said God would, if he were a liar. If no, then the man was an ignoramus. If he could not know of what he was dying how can you trust him in anything?
“why in hell would he expose himself being false prophet would not have been better to keep quite so nobody would find out that he was false prophet.”
Yes, it would have been wiser to keep his mouth shut. However, he thought since the only way one’s aorta can be severed is by a sword, he stayed away from battle fields. He never participated in any person-to-person combat. He wore two coats of mail (chain link armor) and always stayed behind, protected by his bodyguards. So he felt pretty secure that no one will be able to cut his aorta. But he was wrong. He did not count on God. In fact he did not think that God exists. If Muhammad believed in God he would not have lied so much about him with no fear. Please note that such disease does not exist. The only person in history that died like that was Muhammad.
And as for being wise, Muhammad wasn’t wise at all. Do you think it was wise for him to eat the food Zeinab bint Harith had prepared, after he had killed her father, uncle and husband? A man who does not have enough commonsense, cannot be a prophet.
No Zitouni, Muhammad did not foretell that he would die as the result of cutting aorta. He said if he were a liar, God would sever his aorta. He laghed at the gullibility of his followers thinking such thing is impossible. He never thought he would die like that. But he was wrong. God made a miracle and invented a disease just for him to show to the world that this man was a liar.
Anyway, let us move on. Watch another video by David and tell how can you explai it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz7QwOAf4Ww
Let us say I claim to be a prophet and say if I were a false prophet, God will make me burst in fire. Now spontaneous combustion is extremely rare. Less than one in a billion people die of spontaneous combustion. So I am pretty convinced that this is not going to happen to me and no one will find out that I am a liar. But as it happens I die of spontaneous combustion. Does this mean that I was a prophet or a liar?
if we accept the conclusion as David wood wants then this was to deny or reject the first premises which has produced it . If prophet of Islam were false prophet then how he knew that that God would cut aorta of false prophet . In other words if we believe that prophet of Islam was false prophet because God cut his aorta this should have required to believe his prophecy about cutting aorta of false prophet and this will be contradiction because false prophets do not foretell true prophesies with such degree of detail .
Punishment number one we will seize him by his right hand and punishment number 2 we would cut from his the aorta. I would like to ask you here when did the first punishment take place ? . Another question How did we know that prophet his aorta was cut ? Was it by reading medical report ? You would say prophet himself said that then why in hell would he expose himself being false prophet would not have been better to keep quite so nobody would find out that he was false prophet . It just does not make sense . Let check this using some logic :
premises · 1 : Prophet of Islam foretold the death of false prophet by cutting his aorta
premises · 2 Prophet of Islam died as result of cut of his aorta
conclusion the Prophet of Islam was false prophet
Meaning that we cannot always say about Abhar is el Watin . Pay attention here in another words when we talk about Al Abhar this does not mean we only mean Al Watin . So David wood got a very difficult task front of him because he has to prove too us that Al Abhar meant in Hadith is Al Abhar part of Al Watin and nothing else .
Suppose that prophet aorta was cut and he died as result . I want to ask you a question do you think that prophet had made some false claim about God or many ? . Koran has 114 chapters with 6,236 verses that's hell a lot false claims about God and not just some . But God says in Koran that he will punish this false prophet , if he only make some false claim and not allows him to make 6,236 false claim during 20 years
iban Al Athir said that Al Abhar is a vein originating from head and extends to the foot arteries with related parties to the bodies the one in head is called in Arabic al Nama and it extends to the throat and is called Al Warid and it extends to the chest is called Al Abhar and it extends to the back and is called Al Watin and it extends to the thigh and is called Al Nasa and it extends to the leg and is called Al Safen .
So from Ibn Al Athir saying we clearly see that Al Abhar and Al Watin are different .We can observe something else from Ibn Al Athir saying that Al Abhar is vein originated from the head and extends to the foot so El Watin may be considered just small part of Al Abhar . For this reason , according to some dictionaries that Al Watin can also be called Al Abhar on basis it is part of Al Abhar , but not the other way around ( vis versa ) .
They have similar expression in English . Let me put some English flavor to the verse ( then we will rip out his gusts ) . No English speaking person will understand this expression literally that you will really rip the gusts ( gastrointestinal) of the person . He will be dumb to do so .
David wood being ignorant of Arabic asserts that Al Abhar is itself El Watin . Is it when we speak of about Al Abhar we only mean Al Waiting and when we talk about Al Watin we mean only Al Abhar ? .Poor David wood thought just because Al Abhar and El Watin both are connected to the heart and if one of them get cut this lead to death of the person and the word Aorta is mentioned in verse as well as in Hadith therefore El Watin and Al Abhar are one and the same . After careful investigation we find that El Watin and Al Abhar are two different things
Before I reply I want to make very important note here about Aorta . In the verse the word Aorta appears in Arabic as Al Watin while in Hadith comes as Al Abhar .
The cut of Al abhar in Hadith is used as metaphorical expression intended metaphorically death in any way (either normal death or death due to illness or death by sword ) . Ibn kotaiba explaining the verse ( Then we would have cut from him the aorta ) . By saying cut of El Watin is also metaphor . Ibn kayim added by saying that was not meant that we will cut off his aorta itself , but he meant had he lied about us we would have caused him to die and he will be like a person who has his aorta been cut . So when the prophet said that he felt that poison has cut his aorta it was a metaphorical way to put it and not real . Meaning that prophet wants to say that his end is near and he is about to die and not his aorta has been cut in reality .
Dr Ali Sina is absolutely right! Muhammad ibn Abdullah was truly a false prophet, a wolf in sheep's clothing. When will this Mr JSOP stop defending this dead horrible Muhammad and his religion of falsehood and get out of this horrible cult?
You did not answer the video about who killed Muhammad. Instead you changed the subject and started talking about Jesus. This is a logical fallacy called red herring. Assuming everything you said about Jesus were true, (which of course is not) you still have to answer the questions David raises.
Muhammad said if he were a false prophet Allah will sever his aorta. Then he dies poisoned by a Jewish woman and claims it is as he aorta is severed. I can’t find any argument more convincing that that. According to his own words, he was a false prophet. Waht more proof you want?
Furthermore, you are a Mislim and believe in the Quran. What the Quran says about the death of Jesus? It says Allah deceived the people who thought they were crucifying Jesus when they were actually crudifying someone that resembled him. So your argument against Jesus, is refuted by your own Quran. But the fact that Allah disgraced Muhammad and severed his aorta to show he was a false prophet is confirmed by your own Quran.
''Of course you can't do anything to refute the video because you cannot go against the Quran and Sunna. You are trapped by the lies of your own fake religion.''
It's quite funny when an another Christian says that about your religion you say they are harassing you but you think it is justified to go after Muslims and Islam
''My hope is that you come to your senses and realize you are worshiping money ''
Putting money and shiny things over God (Christians and Jews in the early era disliked this also)
-JSOP
''We know you are a good terrorist following the perfect example of your criminal cult leader.''
What about your claim of not insulting Muslims and only disagreeing with Islam
Calling another Muslims a terrorist without any facts what so ever about that person (Is this not terrorising innocent Muslims with no prove of any wrong deeds?)
Slandering yet again Mr John K ?
True colours showing perhaps?
-JSOP
No. You will overthrow dictators and install sharia governments and still be a failure. You are blaming others when your failure is yourselves.
I shut your mouth LOL . You got no evidence that Ali sina read Arabic . you are too dumb to understand Koran . As Backwardness in Muslim world this has to do with corrupt secular dictators and not Islam . When Islam ruled and was put in practise it created great civilization which saved the west from dark ages . read history dummy
"may present the unbelievers with an ultimatum".
Are you really arguing with faithfreedom.org or with yourself ?
What does giving the ultimatum mean ?
You forgot Islam teaches that Allah did not let Jesus die on the cross. Too bad he didn't do anything to save Muhammad.
Of course you can't do anything to refute the video because you cannot go against the Quran and Sunna. You are trapped by the lies of your own fake religion.
"Your site is full of stupid errors"
Of course you can't prove any of them. See "Logic" article above.
"even 10 old Muslim kid would make"
Of course not. At that age they are perfectly programmed by their cult controllers. And then they grow up to be brain-dead zombies like you.
We know you are a good terrorist following the perfect example of your criminal cult leader.
You forgot to include the part about our people loving death more than your people love life.
"Man any time you open your mouth ignorance comes out"
A good description of yourself to be sure.
I suppose that means you deserve the humiliation the fall of the Ottoman empire gave you too. And the humiliation of the backwards countries that Islam controls.
This is the description of your intelligence:
Logic
The Koran advances a logical system. Truth is determined by revelation. No fact or argument may refute the Koran. Logical persuasion is based upon repetition and continued assertion. Another part of the persuasion is personal attacks against those who resist Islam. The Koran advances its argument through threats against specific people and groups. If persuasion fails, then force may be used to settle the logical or political argument.
Another aspect of Koranic logic is the use of name-calling and personal insults to advance the truth. The Koran, with its poetical language and repeated threats and physical violence, bases its logic on emotions. Although its intellectual truth can be contradictory, the contradictions do not need to be resolved. Understanding apparent contradictions is a key to understanding Islamic logic. In unitary logic, a contradiction shows the theory or argument to be false. But in the Koran, a contradiction does not prove an argument to be false. What appears to be logical contradictions are statements of duality that offer two true choices, depending upon the circumstances. This is dualistic logic.
How do we know the Koran is true? Because it contains the words of Allah. How do we know that these are the words of Allah? Mohammed said they were Allah's words. How do we know that Mohammed is Allah's messenger? Mohammed reported that Allah said that Mohammed is His messenger. – CSPI
So you can keep your so-called intelligence. Thinking like yours has left the entire Muslim world in a hell-hole of darkness and backwardness. The only thing you people have is what the British tried to give you, but you savages hate civilization and are throwing off what modernization the West gave you as one country after another throws off their Westernized countries in their rebellion to re-enthrone Sharia as the law of the land. To the extent they succeed in this, they are on the road to backwardness and more suffering as they embrace your brand of intelligence. You will never achieve what the West has achieved until you throw off the Islamic mode of thinking that shackles you in darkness.
I wish I was smart like you.
This is the best evidence that your stupid teacher is Arabic ignorant
Speaking about verse 5:32 Ali sina said
The word mischief is the translation of the word “fitnah”, which means dissention, opposition, sedition.
Here is the verse in Arabic and show me where is the word Fitna in there
5 : 32. Min ajli thalika katabna AAala banee isra-eela annahu man qatala nafsan bighayri nafsin aw fasadin fee al-ardi fakaannama qatala alnnasa jameeAAan waman ahyaha fakaannama ahya alnnasa jameeAAan walaqad jaat-hum rusuluna bialbayyinati thumma inna katheeran minhum baAAda thalika fee al-ardi lamusrifoona
The only way that he can make this error if he have not read the verse in Arabic LOL . You are dumb stupid follower of con man LOL
You got to be intelligent like me to expose Ali Sina ass
I have already wacthed this video in faith freedom and replies to it . That's all what you have . David wood is just another ignorant man like you . He has shot himself in foot . You can read my response to the video
See what he has to say about his Jesus because according to the bible he was cursed LOL
A crucified Messiah is an impossibility – the one hanged on the tree to die is a traitor or a blasphemer. Hanging on the cross he is accursed by God and men. Such was the priestly doctrine in the days of Jesus, as we have learned from the Dead Sea Scrolls and other early Jewish sources.
In Deuteronomy 21:22-23 we find the following law:
If a man guilty of a capital offense is put to death and you hang him on a tree, you must not leave the body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is a curse of God. You must not defile the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.
WOOOOOOOOO LOL
http://www.faithfreedom.org/videos-features/who-k…
Assuming there is a hell you will join Muhammad in hell. Is that really what you want? Don't say I did not tell you.
Vey funny the student is advising his teacher is not supose to be the other way around LOL
Watch this video and see for yoursel. This video makes it very clear Muhammad had was a liar and God disgarced him without any doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6st_tFj6ouM
don't make a fool of yourself my friend.
You are making fool of yourself . Your site is full of stupid errors not even 10 old Muslim kid would make . You know nothing about Arabic except the Arabic script and you have never study Tafsir or Hadith or anything related to Islam and you have never been schooled by an expert in the fields . I advise to first learn then you can criticize Islam right now you are to me my student in Islam
My hope is that you come to your senses and realize you are worhipign a devil and God has nothing to do with Muhammad and Islam.
My hope is that you come to your senses and realize you are worshiping money . Those people who hired you are dumb they should have looked for somebody with credentials and not somebody dumb Islam ignorant like you . Which university went to get degree in Islamic studies ? Eh , tell me .
Zeitouni, stop defending a lost cause. You know that you can't fool us.
Islam was not and never will be a lost cause . The looser is you and you are the one who is trying to fool me . Sorry I am native Arab speaker , well verse in Islamic theology and Chronic studies as well as Islamic history so try to fool a Muslim from Iran or Pakistan . I am too tough for you because I can be your teacher in Islam
So either defend your demonic faith like a good terrorist or go away
If you call somebody who defend his faith a terrorist then you can beat I am good terrorist
This is what the emperor of Persia did after that . He contacted Bardhan the Persian, who ruled Yemen and told him to sent some men to Medina and arrest the prophet to the request of the emperor of Persia . How will a leader of nation will feel about that ? .
Read the verse 9:29. What does it say? It says "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day." Does it say fight those who expelled you out of your houses?
Again stupid interpretation of the verse and again ignoring the historical context . This what you have missed ignorant . Asbabo nozool the reason of the revelation in Arabic .
The Prophet had sent a messenger to the Byzantine governor of Busra, that this messenger was killed by a tribesman of Ghassan in the name of Heraclius, and that Muhammad sent this force as a punitive expedition against that governor and the empire he represented.
Killing an ambassador in those days as well as today was an act of war . Get that ?
Here is the letter .
"In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah, to the great Kisra of Iran. Peace be upon him, who seeks truth and expresses belief in Allah and in His Prophet and testifies that there is no god but Allah and that He has no partner, and who believes that Muhammad is His servant and Prophet. Under the Command of Allah, I invite you to Him. He has sent me for the guidance of all people so that I may warn them all of His wrath and may present the unbelievers with an ultimatum. Embrace Islam so that you may remain safe. And if you refuse to accept Islam, you will be responsible for the sins of the Magi."[13]
I do not see in letter I will destroy you?
Did the Egyptians expell Muslims out of their house?
Man any time you open your mouth ignorance comes out . Muslims did not fight Egyptians . The war was against Byzantines who had no business of being in Egypt because they were from Europe and Egyptians were fed up with them and helped Muslims in war effort against Byzantine .
Did you read the letter of Muhammad to the king of Persia? Doesn't it say convert to my religion or I will destroy you?
You are stupid liar . We are in the age of internet did you know that . Information is easy to get just by click of the mouse . You did not think that I will look for this letter and I will find out that you are lying .
The khalif Omar ordered the Muslim army to retreat to the neighboring desert area near to Iraq and wait there for reinforcement and he sent new army under the command of Sad bin Abu Waqas this time is to put and end the Persians empire army and not just to kick them out of Iraq so he did .You should not have invaded Arab lands and subjected them . It was your fault and you deserve it . In those days it was niorm of the day nation invades another nation . This was long before Islam . Muslim cannot tell Persia and Roman eh Koran says fight only those who fight you and do not transgress because they do not follow Koran or they could change their foreign policy which was based on only invading and enslaving people so Muslim had to deal with them in language they understood . Too bad they were defeated and that's what they deserve .
Did we Persians expell Muslims from their house? Why Omar invaded our country?
Who told you the Muslim used verse 2: 191 to fight Persia ???? . Now you are crying like bitch . Didn't´t Persians back then had many occupied lands including part of Arabia as well as whole Iraq under their control how about if you experience the same thing uh ? . Long before Islam Arab tribes close to Persia fought the Persians for liberation of their lands .And in 602 they revolted against the king of Persia after he killed an Arab king by the name of Noaman Ibn Mundir and they defeated him in battle of Did Kar . Muslims went to help Arab tribes in Iraq who were under the illegal occupation of Persians so Abu Bakr sent Khalid bin Walid and he kicked out from Iraq. When Khaild left to the Syrian front the Persians took advantage of that and lunched contra attack and they took most the part which they have lost against Khalid .
I think you are dumb . Why would he use English translation if he can read and understand Arabic . I never did . only people who cannot understand Arabic would do such a thing . Plus Ali Sina never write anything in Arabic in his website he writes just in Farsi and Englsih . I have proven to you before about the word Fitna when he thought that the verse contain that word when it did not he could not know that because he read the verse in English had he read it in Arabic he would not have made that mistake .
I see you have insufficient skills in reading comprehension to understand what Dr. Sina said.
Are you a woman? Is that why you are deficient in intelligence?
It still says he read it in Arabic:
"did not read the next verse until I was completely satisfied I understood the Arabic"
Dummy you are talking about this
I found an Arabic copy of the Quran with an English translation. Previously I read only bits and pieces of the Quran. This time I read all of it. I would read a verse in Arabic, then its English translation, then refer back to the Arabic, and did not read the next verse until I was completely satisfied I understood the Arabic.
Since The iranian use Arabic script for Farsi so Ali Sina can read Arabic , but he cannot understand what he is reading it just like me I can read Farsi , but I will not understand it . The proof of that he said I will use English to understand Arabic . Why would he use Arabic copy of the Quran with an English translation ???? . People who know Arabic do not do that . Your dummy cannot read a verse in koran without English help he would not know what the hell the verse is talking about . Does this can be considered that he read koran and understand it in Arabic noooooooooooooooooooooo .
Anti-Islamic sources = Quran, Hadith, Sira
Do the math
It's the classic argument that people who belong to peaceful religions do evil when they violate their religion's teachings, but Islam teaches people to do evil things. Whether they want to is a different story, and just like people anywhere, there are bound to be people who would do evil no matter where they were born.
The problem, Mr. Concerned, is that to hate in Islam is a rule, it is doctrinal. No true Muslim can live without hating non muslims or even Muslims of other sects. Hate is thier trade in stock because thier prophet practised and thier scriptuers enjoin it. Islam is unlike other religions in that hate and comitting atrocities by its follwers is a duty that attracts rewards while followers of other religions can exhibit hate only as a human emotion.
Do not, therefore, confuse telling the truth with hate. Indeed, muslims are the primary victims of Islam, and telling them the truth about it is the best way of showing them love and worldpeace can only be guaranteed if muslim leave islam.
Zitouni, hearken to Ali Sina's advice. If ever there is that Muhammad's invention, HELL, it will be him and his blind followers that will inhabit it. Allah is not God. For, if ever there is god, it cannot be a sadistic one that will roast its creation for etenity for a preprogrammed infraction of a few years on earth.
I agree with you, Stravinski.
Yes Truth, you are beginning to find the truth, and you will be free thereafter.
"…I still believe that people are evil. Not religion." In the case of Islam it is the reverse. Islam is inordinately evil. People can be evil and do evil things, mostly, in exceptional cases. But Islam is evil as rule.
I understand that when you are frustrated and do not have the facts on your side it is easy to resort to insults.
If you had read further in Dr. Sina's writings, you would have seen where he says he has read the Quran in Arabic.
I'm sorry you have turned out to be the dummy.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/misc/from-be…
Did we Persians expell Muslims from their house? Why Omar invaded our country? Did the Egypsians expell Muslims out of their house?
Did you read the letter of Muhammad to the king of Persia? Doesn’t it say convert to my religion or I will destroy you?
Read the verse 9:29. What does it say? It says “Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day.” Does it say fight those who expell you out of your houses? No it says fight those who don’t beleive in Allah. Does it include also the Jews and Christians, the so called people of the book? Yes it does. It says, fight those who have been given the Book, until they pay the jizyah tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Zeitouni, stop defending a lost cause. You know that you can’t fool us. So either defend your demonic faith like a good terroist or go away and don’t make a fool of yourself my friend. My hope is that you come to your senses and realize you are worhipign a devil and God has nothing to do with Muhammad and Islam. Assuming there is a hell you will join Muhammad in hell. Is that really what you want? Don’t say I did not tell you.
Watch this video and see for yoursel. This video makes it very clear Muhammad had was a liar and God disgarced him without any doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6st_tFj6ouM
take this verse which he states as
kill unbelievers wherever they find them (Q.2:191),
why he did not write the whole verse ??????
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers
do you know why ? because you will realise this verse it is history and it cannot be applied today . This verse talks about when Muslims were fighting Mushrik of Mecca pronoun them refers to Mushrik of Mecca and not every non Muslims . Ali sina ignore the historical context of the verse and wants you to believe Muslim today are urged to go out and start killing people . Suppose I live in Brazil how can I apply this verse ? . Brazilians did not expel me from my house , they did not fight me in Masjid haram because we are in Brazil you see how dumb is Ali Sina
you must be either dumb or you have not read this stupid post . he has clearly said this
Using both English and Persian translations as my guide
So he does not read koran in Arabic dummy
Hi! No need to be concerned!
Islam is like no other religion. Most religions have evolved over a very long period of time, and are the product of many peoples thought contributions.
Islam is different. It was invented in a very short period of time by only one person. He also made the mistake of saying his words were the very literal word of God, and in fact, that the Quran is actually a literal copy of the same book in heaven.
That is a big mistake because the Quran is full of thousands of mistakes, and it only takes one mistake to prove it is not the word of God.
But, if it only amounted to that, we would just laugh and say how cute the primitive little religion. Unfortunately Islam is also a reflection of Muhammad's mental disorders, criminality and sociopathy. That's why you read about all the barbarisms all over the world in the name of Islam. Islam is the only religion that prescribes violence for its followers. Since Muslims are not expected to be literate in Islam, most or at least many do not know about this. But when they want to get closer to be God, they learn about it and become inspired to become terrorists, or are repulsed by it and leave Islam. Read more about it here:
http://alisina.org/understanding-muhammad/
I feel like only certain verses of the quraan are being focused upon.yes, no religion is perfect! But if u promote such peace ansd love, y not make it ur duty to combine all the positivity which each religion instills within others…I'm not a religious person, but I believe in love and peace…makn others hate this religion is wrong.makn others hate any other religion is wrong too.jus sayn
Hi Sophia,
Allah is Muhammad's invention so that he would have a god to back him up in the things he said.
Muhammad was too insecure to give his ideas as his own because the people rejected the things he said.
So instead Muhammad told the people that Allah said these things and that Allah would punish them if they did not believe Muhammad.
So Allah is just a crutch to justify Muhammad's sociopathic ideas and behaviors.
Right. And no one has won a debate against Dr. Sina either. There is plenty of opportunity for him to read the debates published here and see how they went.
Why do you make a fool of yourself. Don't you know that Dr. Sina has read the Quran in Arabic? When you say stupid things, you make your religion look stupid, which really is a good thing because it is stupid, and you help to show that to people.
You are punished by your sins rather than for your sins. You live in hell when you do not live a good life. Your afterlife will be but an extension of what you have allowed yourself to become.
"As the twig is bent, so grows the tree."
Very well written. You can impress Muslims who know their faith and accept what you discovered from the Quran and Sunna. The Muslims you cannot impress are the supremacists who compensate for their ignorance with bullying.
Wow this is the journey of the now world renowned scholar Dr Ali Sina. This had the best impact on my faith because it is the opinion of an innocent inquiring mind . Your post is full of queries about interpretation of koranic verses .If you came to this conclusion after you study Islam and not as all koranic scholars do (by accepting Mohammand first) then maybe you have a point. Fortunatley you did do the basic of the basic in being a muslim i.e. giving a clean chit to Mohammad and starting your query from after giving Mohammad the unconditional green signal. After that you can identify with most of the Mohammadeans around the world. If I were you and I want to debunk lslam I will have taken a long time to put my ideas into words. I will have to go and get the best degree in the land about being expert in Islam then I will have expose this fake religion .
Btw, Speaking out of the answers that come from personal inquiry will not impress any Muslim who knows his faith .
How is my attempt :-). Appreciations are welcome.
Actually going Vegan is good for yourself, people around you, economy of the area and psychological health. I am a vegan and I cherish my diet. I eat good and I eat tasty vegan dishes.
Yes the blood of the slaughtered animal has the fear harmones and god knows what. But Islam was never the first to discover it and if so why are muslims eating cows ? Maybe to infuriate Kufr and get them to beat them up so they can play victim until their time to strike comes :-D. Go Vegan I would say. but first get out of Islam. After life will be seen in the after. Hellfire is in the mind and not somewhere.
I have heard Christian preachers talk about a 'place' called heaven and a place called hell revealed to them during their prayer..Yuuk. But ok they didn't ask me to cheat, beat or cut anybody btw :-).
Yep
We can only 'imagine' a peaceful, lovely and beautiful meaning for the Quranic Verses. Taken in their literal sense they are ramblings out of a diseased, calculative, cunning and vindictive person. We can likewise imagine Mickey Mouse (SWT) as the creator of the universe and HeMan (PBUH) as the last prophet.
Imagine emulating HeMan (PBUH) and going around the NewYork area in an Undewear… 🙂
So what if he had known Arabic he would have found out the meaning of the words in Arabic and still go against Quran.
You want him to accept Quran as the only way to salvation and then talk about it. You want him to believe that emulating Mohammad is the sure way to heaven.
Your idea of reading the Quran with an 'open mind' is reading the Quran and accepting Mohammad's claim to prophethood. And then no one will be able to talk ill of the Quran as anyone who reads the Quran accepting it has already shut out their reasoning and discerning capacity.
Learn Arabic and learn the Quran. That will make no difference as the Quran will be even dirtier.
What is the error in the post ? Kindly tell us your version of the correct interpretation of the post ?
what about the debates they already had with him as given in the debates section of this site…
Dear,Dr Sina,
First of all,ur article is great! It was amazing like other articles
But one thing bother me the most,
If Allah is not truly God,who is him anyway?
Are he really dont exist or what?
What’s ur opinion? People? 🙂
Thank u 🙂
To prove that this ignorant man is no scholar of koran is just to prove that he does not read Arabic thats all . I have already done it . Yeah all those world renown koranic scholar that we have in Muslim world are from USA , Europe LOL . I want you to get this in your dumb mind ALI SINA IS ISLAM IGNORANT HE HAS NO DEGREE IN ISLAMIC THEROLGY HE CANT EVEN SPEAK ARABIC
you have to read from independent sources from what I see your research was done from anti Islamic sources
Right. Because you don't know anything. It's not possible to disprove Dr. Sina's scholarship. If you had a real education, you would know that.
Your problem is that Muslim culture does not have a scholarly academic tradition and knowedge-based society, so you have no experience in establishing facts. You blindly repeat what your imams tell you.
He is the one who is afraid to debate them . plus no scholar will waste his time with somebody who does not even know basic arabic . This ignorant man is like somebody who claim that Albert relativity theory is wrong and when he was trying to debunk it he made an error in elementary algebra will you this take this person serious ? I do not think so .Tell your dummy to get some education then open his mouth . This 50,000 prize is joke . How about if I find just 5 errors in his website will he give me $ 50,000 ???? I do not think so .
Right. That's why Muslim scholars are afraid to debate him and no one has collected the $50,000 reward for defeating him in debate:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/the-cha…
wow this is the journey of the would be world renown koranic scholar Ali sina . This has no impact on my faith because it is the opinion of an ignorant . your post is full of errors about interpretation of koranic verses .If you came to this conclusion after you study Islam as all koranic scholars do then maybe you will have a point , but unfortunatley you do not even know the basic of the basic to be an expert in the field. If I were you and I want to debunk Ilslam I will go and get the best degree in the land about being expert in Islam then I will expose this fake religion . Speaking out of ignorance will not impress any Muslim who knows his faith .
Every Country that based on Christianity (Europe, USA, Australia) or at least had been on Christianity (Russia), are the peaceful and democracy country.
Every Country that based on Islam (Middle East, Iran, Afghanistan, and so on)or at least had been on Islam (if any), are the baddest and terrorize its own citizen.
Every Country that based on Islam BUT previously on another religion are the democracy Islam based on peace. The Islam real system are being minimal because previous civilization did good thing and the Islam can’t oppose it. That is why country like Turkey and Indonesia are very democracy and tolerant Islam.
And the fact was ISLAM system was being subject by Culture and not the Culture being subject by ISLAM.
You can see that Turkey system was not based on sharia but based on previous system – Christianity. Indonesia Java not based on sharia but based on tolerant Hindus Buddha culture.
And now, the Indonesia was being subjected by Islam. The peoples pro-culture are being threat and considered as idolater (shiriq). The purpose to convert Indonesia based culture pro-democracy system into sharia system.
Look at Pakistan, the western are afghan culture and very cruel. The Eastern side was Hindus culture and very democratic.
You missed the post where Jonathan was in admin mode and accidentally used Ali's account to post comments, so he went back and corrected it to show his name on his comments.
It looks like he accidentally went too far and changed some of Ali Sina's own posts too, so I dropped him a note.
Dear Sir (Ali Sina),
Not that it makes any difference to me but it will to a lot of muslims out there and especially the ones who come here on this forum sincerely to check on the other side of islam.
Why are your comments replaced by the name Jonathan Harell?
Regards
http://quran.com/9/23
Lol,the sugarcoated websites themselves says'Don't befriend with Unbelievers"…
Ali Sina what you have shown here is just a little part of it..there are many verses which advocates violence in Islam.
is there any where you can get the Quran in English that isn't sugar coated ?
Be sorry for your own culture and mind who have been ravaged by that pathetic excuse for a religion called Islam. A demonic cult which, ever more, poses a threat to world peace.
you give the big effort to mislead people..i am really sorry to you. the way you interprete alquran is old fashioned missionarist style. so many muslim community need a safe passage to develop their culture in understanding themselves, their source of law, and their surrounding, to spread love from God. And other people might want too to know this religion. You are not helping with this at all.
wat are you talking mann..
indian government takes old aged muslims to perform hajj ,and government takes most of the expenses,preference is given to the aged people,,
there is reservation for muslims in all professional colleges and also in government jobs,,in india u are lucky if u are born to muslim parents because you get admission in top colleges even if you dont have impressive grades(seats are reserved) and easy access to government jobs without the qualificationss..
you are completely wrong about the gujuraat incident,,muslims burnt a train compartment full of hindu scholars and then the riot started in which many muslims were killed,, after the riots muslims did nothing to help the muslim victims while the good people among the hindus helped them and even filed case and brought the culprits to the court and punished them,,its not a lie as most of the cases related to the gujarat incident were filed by hindu people against hindus(criminals).
there is more muslims in india than in pakistan ,,check statistics ,,muslims in india loves democracy,,they are not like pakistanis,,
i know what you think in pakistan about indiaa,,
,,,,
man learn to love people without looking their relegion ,region or race…
The onus of proof lies with the believer, not the non believer. Why stop at God, I can say that there is an invisible purple elephant in this room that cannot be detected by your 5 senses or any sort of machinery, yet it is there and you have to prove that it's not there!
Sina "Sir I never tire reading your articles.. There is something some mystic strength that pulls me towards reading all that you write. Sir you are an amazing individual and I love you
Having been born as a human being living among other humans, watch I’ve consistently observed is the fact that every human beings (as well as other advanced non-human animals like cows, dogs, pigs, chickens etc) can be either trained to be loving or evil. These two states of mind are not something you’re born with, but rather you learn them from the teachings, trainings and influences you absorb from the people in your environment.
Thus, if a religion or ideology that teaches a child iti is ok to hate, rob, rape and kill non-Muslims for no other reasons than for just being non-Muslims, then that child will grow up putting those “evil” teachings into practice. Only after a human being has fully absorbed all teachings to hate and do harm to other suimply for being different from them, then you may call that human being “evil”.
The point to keep in mind is that we are born neither evil nor good. We become good or evil based on the teachings and influences we are exposed to since birth. And even this is a continuing process. That is to say, it is not too late to change your particular state of mind. in other words, you can might have been brought up as a hater, but if you have the chance, or allow you the chance to be exposed to teachings of kindness, then you’ll be able to, through the process of reasonings, change into a good person.
So people are not born evil. They are made that way through their upbringing by the teachings they receive from family, society and religious teachings imposed on them. A religion that teaches hate will almost always create psychopaths to promote their cause. But these people can change, as I’ve mentioned above.
god (allah) was created by muhammad, after copying the jew’s and christian’s taurat/bibles, in order to serve his ill-intention..(sleeping with his wife’s servant, attacking and robbing the merchants, jews, etc).
Who knows, maybe there is a God above us. Unless proven otherwise beyond any reasonable doubts. Of course, we can’t prove Him until we’re dead to be certain. That’s why it’s called “Faith”.
In any case, still, i believe that people are evil. Not religion, certainly not God whom the very existence still causes debates by some.
PeaceBeWitcha…
More and more I am going through this website I am realizing that there is no God
Simply amazing. What Ali Sina unveiled in this article is an eye-opener.
I never thought somebody from a muslim backround can be so critical towards Islam.
But really, i still believe that people are evil. Not religion.
I would not expect modern muslims to be so “post dark ages era” where chopping each other heads off were popular. I’d like to think that modern muslims should maybe be more “tolerant” toward others. Christians, Yahuds, eastern religions, even Pagans and Infidels. With sophisticated minds and inquisitive attitudes.
Is it possible?
Wallahualam…
Not eating the blood of animals is taken from the Old Testament. It is not something Muhammad said first. The rationle of this law is that in the old age people believed that blood is soul. To this day the Jehovah Witnesses don’t eat blood and don’t do blood transfusion lest souls of people or animals mix up together, confusing God as to how to deal with them in the Day of Resurection.
Anything Muhammad said is copied from somewhere. It is either pagan superstition or from the Bible.
Please see my response here http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/NaikCampbellp…
Dear Ali sina, Is it true that the Quran was the 1st to discover the water cycle before anyone else according to the French doctor, Marice Bacille, who later convert to Islam becuse of this.?
Another thing said in the Quaran is the we should not eat animals' blood. Now scientists had discovered that it contains the fear hormones which is harmful to health. When the animals were slaughtered, they were in fear n thus produced these hormones.
Please clarify these 2 matters. Thank u.
Mr. Ali Sina,
Thank you a thousand times for this article. The incredible sadness of genocide is often forgotten perhaps because they are mistakenly thought to be rare events of craziness. Hitler is a despicable sinner. What happened in Bangladesh is also extremely sad. I am very glad you have written about it.
Well, Mr. Nitelite, I must really thank you for teaching me something new. I knew that the New Testament in its present form was written in Greek, but I had never heard that it was based on an original "Q" Aramaic source.
Plus I had never even considered the relationship between Aramaic-speaking early Christians and Christian authors and the contemporary commercial environment of Greek as a second language.
After looking at the evidence for Aramaic primacy, it certainly has some good explanations for some odd passages in the Bible. While it is a testament to the integrity of the Greek translators, it is also a lesson in human imperfection.
Playing Serpent in the Garden of Eden, don't you?
Was the New Testament first Written in Aramaic? http://orvillejenkins.com/languages/aramaicprimac…
Primacy and Possibility http://orvillejenkins.com/theology/primacyandposs…
Language Confusion for Dummies http://orvillejenkins.com/reviews/lancasteraramai…
Josephus and Aramaic Primacy http://orvillejenkins.com/languages/josephusandar…
Extended reading: http://www.ntgreek.org/answers/nt_written_in_gree…
Who is Allah? It is none other than this!
Why don't you shatter this darkness of ignorance with your light of knowledge, then? Why run away? Has your Allah SWT ordered you to run away – or to smite at the necks of us kuffars? Unfortunately, you can't do the latter – because this is the internet. So, your choice is to exhibit your cowardice. Good choice.
.
Allah Hafiz ~!
MN
Only the ignorant can boldly come here and declare it ignorance.
Who is Allah? Pagan god of a death cult.
Readers come here with differing intentions. Some will be satisfied to leave and insult or two and never come back. Others are absorbed with a desire to find fault with every detail. These sometimes will inadvertently learn enough to leave Islam.
This is the height of ignorance and/or smart misinformation. Anyways, who is Allah? A: go to ths site http://www.peshitta.org/ ; click on tools; click on lexicon and search for the "god".
Did the following question never evoked a response in your thought process?
.
To most nujus Hindooos – all parts of their country were as sacrosant & spiritually-enhancing as the Kaaba & Mecca. Yet, Muslims continue to live in these sacrosant locations – while they comfortably indulge in large-scale (possibly the worlds LARGEST) discrimination by supporting a system that prohibits all people of the world (except Muslims) from even setting foot in an entire city of Mecca.
.
Recollect pre-Islamic Arabic history & one remembers that the Kaaba housed 300+ idols – and all people, Xians, Jews, Pagans, everyone was allowed entrance to the place. Why this discrimination? Why do Muslims don't see this? If it's okay for you to live next to my temply/church right down the street – why prevent me from building a residence & preaching my faith at Mecca – right next to the Kaaba? Do Muslims think Jerusalem, Bamiyan (Buddha statues location in Afghanistan) or Kashmir are not spiritually important to people of other faiths? How could any human being reconcile between such a faith & humanity?
.
MN
As al-Ghazali put it "reason is the source of evil & it's antidote is faith". That hit the nail in the coffin that contains the collective remains of Islamic intellectualism & self-criticisim.
.
I especially liked the line/statement about *PAK*-istan. The fact that they named their country *that* – just to make the foolish & coward Hindoooos realize their folly in being the Nujus says so many things. But look at us Hindooos, we continue to ignore any/all Faith *most of the time* – and at times end up killing Christians (Orrisa) & Muslims (Gujarat) – and end-up discriminated as *Saffron terror* by our very own senseless, pathetic & most-foolish Minister/s. Vande Mataram.
.
contd
Other than the part where you "seem to" regard Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi as faultless, I'm very glad I read this post. It's so nice – but I'm not really sure if fanatics / real Muslims will have the patience to read it thru. And if they do, they'll probably be listing various reason/s why you lost faith – mainly, your western environment (of Italy) & Nujus friends (Bahai's et al) – all these lead to your *questioning* Allah SWT & Rasool il Allah SAWS. FITNA, it is.
.
contd
"I idealized an Islam that conformed to my own humanistic values."
This is true of all religions. As humans we have an innate desire to worship God, so people of all religions project their concept of what an ideal god would be. Only when people begin to study their doctrines do they begin to discover to what extent their religion conforms to or diverges from the ideal.
"pioneers of modern science when Europe was languishing in the medieval Dark Ages."
The concept of the Dark Ages in Europe has pretty much been debunked. As it turns out, there was plenty of progress in Europe. The reason the ages were really dark is because Muslims conquerers destroyed historical records, thus making research in those periods of European history difficult. The Dark Ages article at Wikipedia is pretty up-to-date on this topic.
"It took me many years and a lot of study to realize they were right about Islam and I was the ignorant one."
This makes it difficult to deal with the Muslim supremacists who come to leave comments on your sites. They are just a steady stream or parade of one after another with the same thoughts and attitudes. They are a long way from realizing their ignorance, so it is difficult to know what is the best way to handle them and respond to their comments.
"Those who go to the mosques and listen to the sermons of the mullahs are affected."
I would like to know how much time the mosque sermons devote to the hateful things. Is it constant? Is it just one of many topics that rotate on a regular basis? What percentage of mosques have bad Friday sermons? All of them? Most of them? A few?
"Why is Allah so concerned about whether he is worshipped by insignificant creatures on this tiny planet?"
This is a form of the ignorance called provincialism, which is a form of self-centeredness in which the world revolves around one's self. So as the egoist thinks he is the center of the universe, likewise the provincialist thinks the way of thinking of his local area is supreme to all others.
"There are no lessons on morality, justice, honesty, or love in that book. The only message of the Quran is to believe in Allah and his messenger."
This solitary message is also the only original content of the Quran. Everything else in the Quran is derivative of Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism. The only new doctrine Muhammad revealed in the Mecca period is that there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger, and in the Medina period he revealed that if you don't believe the first doctrine, you are subject to being killed. These are the two solitary contributions of the man Muhammad to the doctrines of religion. The bulk of the Quran is Muhammad using Allah as an excuse to justify his criminal and immoral behavior.
"Violence is repulsive to me. "
So you don't like that which is good for you! 😉 Thanks for sharing this update of your personal story. Most of the articles here and on similar sites are analytical in nature, but the sharing of your personal experience with Islam is very important for people to understand what Muslims and Islam are like. The analytical articles are the logic, but the personal experiences are the soul of Islamic studies. It also helps the Muslims who come here and accuse you of malevolence and ignorance to understand who you are and what you are about, as well to see that you are not ignorant. The trick is getting them to read deeply enough into this site to really get to know you, and even more so, to get them interested enough to read your book.
let me check the quran????
aaaahhh.. thank you…. ALLAH made a "barrier" between those 2 waters.. the Fresh water ocean underneath earth(apsu) and the salt water ocean around earth (tiamat).. THIS is what the quran talks about.. in these 3 verses.. dont you think mr sina??
that would also explain the "mountains as pegs" and "mountains standing firm" verses.. the people back then viewed the earth as an "iceflake" floating on water.. had it not been for these mountains.. the earth would bounce up and down in the water.. like a small boat when walking around on it.. THIS is what the quran means by "shake with you".. dont you think mr. sina??
Dr. Ali sina.. the world needs the truth regarding the 3 verses.. concerning the quranic salt/fresh water "miracle".. the world needs a thorough explanation on this..
muslims are not aware about the babylonean creation myth (enuma elish).. regarding Apsu (god of freshwater) and Tiamat(godess of salt water).. people need to know that people back then viewed the earth as floating on water.. (check out the last line in the 4´th commandment OT)
how could they come to this conclusion?? well.. when digging a hole in the ground.. if one dig deep enough, water off course gush forth, this made them think that there were an ocean underneath earth… but wait?? how can it be FRESH water when digging a hole in the ground, but SALT water when taking a swim in the ocean???????
is the kaabah a former "venus altar"??
is the moon shaped wall infront of the kaaba originally for moon worship? and the black meteor rock, the star(venus) in the islamic symbol?
was hubal really the idol for jupiter? or the moon?
is the name Quran preislamic?? did Al-lat (sun godess) have another name.. Q´re=qure=quran=word of Q´re???
are there really any unauthentic hadiths? or only hadiths which dont matches a modern perception?
isnt the moon symbol of the islamic world not a "partial eclipse" and not a crescent moon??
Can you guess when there were a lunar eclipse over mekka..??? 613 AD according to NASA..
dont you think that the red crescent symbol is not a moon illuminated by the sun.. but the moon coming in the way of the sun??
Dear Dr. Sina.. great article as always.. I have done some research on preislamic History..
can you confirm these facts?
Al-lat=sun godess
Al-lah=moon god
Al-uzzah=venus/fertility/sexual strenght godess (symbolised in the black rock, hence its vagina
shaped entrance)
Al-manat=godess of fate (no astral affiliation)
5 prayers a day=5 stars (mercury, jupiter, venus, mars, saturn) + moon+ sun=7 revolutions around the kaaba..
7 heavens= 7 non static stars on the heavens.. (plus jinns=shooting stars)
You are beating about the bushes Zitouni. It does not matter or what Muhammad died. The point is that he said if he were a liar Allah would sever is aorta. Then he said he is dying because his aorta is being cut. You can’t get out of this. This is proof that Muhammad was an impostor.
I don’t think Muhammad died of poisoning. He died of achromegaly, which is a killer. Nevertheless that is not the issue. The issue is that he said his aorta is cut. Why would he say such thing. It is becuse he know he was lying and he feared one day God would exact his punishment on him.
Sure, liars are very afraid of their lies. That is how their voices is altered and stressed which and a lie detector can detect the stress and show it., Muhammad did not believe in God, But of course he must have aked himself, what if God exist and he punishes me for lying. So when he started dying of heart pain the first thing occured to him was his bet. Ah, maybe God is punishing me by cutting my aorta, he must have tought and that is why he said it.
You are also not qualified to grade any critic of Islam. So forget about grading people and answer the question. How could Muhammad die of exact same thing he said he would if he were a liar?
After all the chest beating and claims of superior knowlege, you still did not answer the question. Neither David Wood nor Ali Sina have any credentials. Forget them and istead answer the question.
Muhammad said if he were a liar Allah will cut his aorta. He later died and complained that his aorta was cut. Doesn’t this make Muhammad a false prophet> If not what would? What other evidence more powerful than this you need to accept the man you worhsip was an impostor. Yes you Mulims worship Muhammad. If you worshipped God you would have left that charlatan. God killed Muhammmad by cutting his aorta. This is not what we say. This is what Muhammad said. He is now in hell. Do you want to go to hell and join Muhammad or do you want to save your soul? The decision is yours. You have no excuses. The truth is exposed to you bare and clear.
Don’t let your Arab vain glory blind you. You speak Arabic but don’t understand Islam and Muhammad. You may even have memorized the entire Quran but I understand it and you don’t. Knowing something and understanding it are two different things.
Let me make an example. You may know a building with all its details. You know its floor plan, every detail of its decoration, the designs on its walls and ceilings, etc. But only a trained eye of a structural engineer can see the building will fall. Islam has no foundation. It is founded on the sands of lies. You are so enamored with its details that you can’t see this building is doomed and don’t want to admit it. I on the other hand, don’t care about the details. I examine its structure and see the cracks. I see the building is propped with pillars of violence, fear and censorship. I know it is only a matter of time for it to collapse. You can turn around and say to me, “how can you say such thing when I know this building in all its details and you don’t?” Yes you do, but what you don’t know is the science of structures. I don’t care about the design, what tiles are used on the floor and how expensive is the chandelier. I see the structure, make my calculations and predict this building will fall soon.
That is exactly what happened to Muhammad. God seized him by his hand and gave him a severe punishment.
As it happens I left Islam when I read the Quran in Arabic. I used Persian and English translation to make sure I don’t miss anything. It was then that I saw the trick. Had I relied only on English translations, I would have missed a lot of details and maybe I would not have seen the light. Can you convince your top notch Arabic speaking scholar to debate with me and prove me wrong. He should be able to write in Arabic of course, or you have to act as translator. If he succeeds, I give him $50,000 and the same amont also to you. This is in recognition of helping me see the truth. But money is nothing. The most important thing is to help the world to see Islam is a true. There are so many people who left Islam because of me. All that will stop and I will try to convince most of them to revert.
Yes there is plenty of proof that he lied. I ahve given thousands of them. David gave ten of them in that video. Would be nice if you tried to refute them logically, i.e. without attacking David personally.
No we don’t have any medical report. But we have his own words. Do the words of the prophet weigh less than the medical report for you?
“There are many ways to detect false prophet not just one .”
Can’t agree more. There are thousands of reasons to show Muhammad was not a prophet of God. Just read my book. In that video David gives at least ten reason. You did not refute any of them. You don’t want to read my book. So I asked you to at least watch these videos.
“You guys which claimed it was fulfilled prophecy and not me because I do not believe that he died as result of cutting his Watin.”
We did not say it was a fulfilled prophecy. We say it was divine retribution to make him suffer and humiliate him.
So you think he did not die as the result of what he said he is dying? Are you saying he was ignorant about the cause of his death? Why would you follow a man who did not know of what he was dying?
Tell you the truth, I too don’t think he died of that because such disease does not exist, unless God invented it just for him. The question is why he said such thing. Well, he said it because he know he was a liar and maybe in the back of his mind there was this fear that God would kill him by cutting his aorta. So when he filt pain in his chest, the first thing that passed his mind is that God is cutting his aorta. After all he knew he was lying.
Is ad hominem your only replay? I have seen David’s shows on TV and he is pretty much knowlegeable about what he talks about. But who care about David Wood or Ali Sina. Answer the points raised and stop attacking the person.
If you think you are suprior to David Woods that is fine. But if you think by beliteling him you can win the argument, you are mistaken. He is quoting from the Quran and hadith. Just answer his argument, i.e. if you can. Don’t engage in obvious logical fallacies.