Holland C. Tylor and the Illusion of a Moderate Islam
President . Abdurrahman Wahid on wheel chair. Mr. Holland C. Tylor standing behind him.
Mr. Holland C. Tylor, is a convert to Islam. He claims to be a moderate Muslim. He was a friend of the late president of Indonesia, Mr. Abdurrahman Wahid who was also a moderate Muslim. Mr. Tylor has compiled the essays of several prominent moderate Muslims in a book titled, The Illusion of an Islamic State and claims Islam is essentially a moderate religion which is being hijacked by the radicals.
I met Mr. Tylor, in an email discussion group, where I and a couple other friends, (Nonie Darwish and Andrew Bostom) argued that Islam cannot be reformed and a moderate Islam is impossible. Muhammad was a violent man and his teachings are violent. Therefore the true Islam can never be a moderate religion. On the other side were, Dr. Zuhdi Yasser, Mr. Tarek Fatah, Dr. Daniel Pipes and Mr. Holland Tylor who are proponents of the moderate Islam.
That is where I came to know Mr. Tylor. I invited him to read my book, Understanding Muhammad and he invited me to read his and we exchanged our respective books.
I read several essays of his book and made a list of about a dozen of questions, mostly based on his article and the one written by the late President Wahid. On May 13, of this year (2012), I asked Mr. Tylor whether he is ready for my questions. He immediately responded, “I am ready.” The next day I sent him my first question.
But he did not reply. So I wrote him a short note saying I am waiting for his response. Mr. Tylor responded, “Please be patient and I will get back to you regarding the question you sent. Feel free to send others if you have them already prepared. I would like to see them.”
I told him I prefer to send the questions one by one so I can publish our exchanges. (Actually I was concerned that if he sees all of them he will panic and will not respond) I told him this is not going to be a debate. I will not comment on or refute his responses. I will present my points, arguing why I don’t believe Islam can be moderate and will publish it along with his response. We will let the readers to decide and he will have the last word.
Mr. Tylor went silent. On My 29, I wrote him another reminder, and expressed my eagerness to continue this interview. I told him why I believe his proposed solution is the real mirage and explained, “When someone is sick it is best to prescribe for him the right remedy. By giving him false hopes we could do more harm to him. Mankind is sick with Islam. Does your remedy work? This question is of utmost importance. Are we deluding the world with another farce or can Islam become moderate and peaceful like other religions?”
I said, “If you really believe in what you preach, this is the time to prove it and put an end to this conundrum. If you don’t believe in what you preach then I don’t know what to say. You must have your reasons to promote something that you know is false.” I told him that truth will not remain under the clouds forever and it is better to side with the truth. I urged him to either defend his claim that the real Islam is moderate or abandon it.
Mr. Tylor was offended. He said that he was in Qatar, attending Brookings Institution’s U.S. – Islamic World Forum and had other obligations. He noted that my email was “counter-productive, in terms of achieving your stated goal (of getting me to respond or publicly abandon my views).” He said our discussion is not going to decide the fate of the world or most people’s views of Islam. He then said, “Mutual politeness will, however, facilitate communication.”
I told him that I was not impolite to him, but disappointed that after reading his rather large book, a book that added no new insight to my understanding of Islam, since it rehashed the very fallacies I used to hold on to before my enlightenment, and after writing my question refuting his claims he had ignored me. I know that there is Internet in Qatar and did not buy that excuse. Despite him ignoring me,Mr. Tylor accused me of being impolite. That was okay with me. I am happy to suffer even insults as long as he responses to my questions. My goal is to show Islam is terminally sick. There is no hope for this cult.
More days passed and I received no reply. So I thought he must have difficulty answering, which is actually a good thing, so I sent him my second question. He said “I read it, and am thinking deeply about the statements you make, and the perspective which lies behind these statements.” He wanted to know whether I have any previous discussions posted on my website that illustrate how I propose to post my questions and his answers to them?
I told him I have had many debates that are posted on my sites, but this is not a debate. I will publish my questions and his responses to them in the same page and will not comment further. He will have the last word. The next question will be on a different topic.
On June 18, more than a month after I sent him my first question, Mr. Tylor wrote, “I’ve had a chance to focus on your first question, and have basically completed my response. I’ll get the document to you after I’ve had a chance to review it once more.”
But I did not hear from him again. On July 9, I sent him an email asking whether he had a chance to review his response to my first question.”
He responded, “I have been focused on two major grant proposals for our International Institute of Qur’anic Studies, but have not forgotten about you.”
Today is July 29, 2.5 months later and I still have not received the reply to my first question, which he said it is already complete. Why? Maybe the answer is in his last email. He is after two major grants for his Islamic institute that assures those who believe in miracles that Islam can become moderate, it is just the question of spending a little more money in the “right” cause. Who can blame him? Maybe I too would do the same were I in his shoes. But there are no grants for apostates, not even a minor one. All I get are a few donations in a year that cover about 20% of the cost of the server. Since I have never had a chance to any grant I can’t pass judgments on him.
The following is my first question. I will send the link to his page to Mr. Tylor and if he sends his response I will publish it. I’ll post the second question in a few days. I also believe that discussions like this will decide the fate of the world and they will affect people’s views of Islam. When I started writing about Islam, in 1998, most people had no idea about this faith. Today, many do and they know some very juicy details of the life of Muhammad too. I say proudly, I started it. Now it has taken a life of its own and it is unstoppable. The movie I am working on will be the nail in the coffin of Islam. I said a decade ago, that a time will come when Muslims will feel embarrassed to be called by that name. That time is nigh.
Dear Holland,
I read the Preface to the English Edition of your book (Compilation) The Illusion of an Islamic State, titled FIGHTING FIRE WITH WATER written by you, and the Editor’s Introduction, by Kyai Haji Abdurrahman Wahid, ex-President of Indonesia, titled THE ENEMY WITHIN. I also read a few pages from other contributing authors to the book. I base my questions on what you and P. Wahid have written.
Before I start let me emphasize that I come from the same background. My Islam was no different from what you and the late President Wahid promote. You grew up in Iran at the same time I was growing up there. You remember how liberal we were. None of this Islamist nonsense existed back then. Those were good days. It all changed overnight in 1979. Those who wore miniskirts and rock and rolled with the tunes of Beatles and Elvis, the so called “moderate Muslims” started wearing headscarf and beards and become Islamists.
I had left Iran by then. I could not understand why this happened, until I read the Quran some 15 years later, in 1994. Then, everything fell into place and I began to understand what hitherto was indecipherable and mayhem. When I read the Sira, biography of Muhammad, all my suspicions were confirmed. Therefore, I understand where you come from. Been there done that!
I am going to be honest with you and tell you that I am not asking these questions to understand your version of Islam. I know it already. I am posing these questions to challenge you. My goal is to make you see that the Islam you promote is not the real one, that it will never prevail and that it is a deception. All deceptions are dangerous. Just as you accuse the so called extremists of having the illusion of an Islamic State, I believe you have the illusion of the moderate Islam. In fact an Islamic State is within the realm of possibilities. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. However, the illusion of a moderate Islam is logically impossible. If you can envision a round square, you may be able to materialize the illusion of the moderate Islam.
To make it easy on both of us and on our readers, (I will publish this interview on Faithfreedom.org as I said before) I will ask one question at a time or maybe two.
Let me start with what P. Wahid has written. He talked about, Mpu Tantular’s principle of Bhinneka Tunggal Ika (“Oneness amid Diversity”) in Islam. Can you please show me where Muhammad talks about such concept? Diversity necessitates tolerance. It means co-existence of different beliefs, which demands freedom of conscience. Does Islam allow such freedom? Can people choose not to believe in Islam or leave it after believing in it? Can someone born to Muslim parents leave Islam? I know your thoughts. Your answer is yes. I am interested in what Islam teaches in this regard.
You quoted from Sura 109 that says, to you your way and to me mine and said this suggests tolerance.
If it does, then it contradicts with several other verses that promote intolerance. For example: 3:85, “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost.” And 8:39, “And fight them on until there is no more fitnah (dissent, tumult) and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.”
However, Maududi, Qutb and many other Muslim scholars claimed that there is no contradiction and that those who think the verse “to you your religion and to me mine” means tolerance are misunderstanding the verse.
Maududi in his interpretation of the Quran writes:
“If the sura is read with this background in mind, one finds that it was not revealed to preach religious tolerance as some people of today seem to think, but it was revealed in order to exonerate the Muslims from the disbeliever’s religion, their rites of worship, and their gods, and to express their total disgust and unconcern with them and to tell them that Islam and kufr (unbelief) had nothing in common and there was no possibility of their being combined and mixed into one entity. Although it was addressed in the beginning to the disbelieving Quraish in response to their proposals of compromise, yet it is not confined to them only, but having made it a part of the Quran, Allâh gave the Muslims the eternal teaching that they should exonerate themselves by word and deed from the creed of kufr wherever and in whatever form it be, and should declare without any reservation that they cannot make any compromise with the disbelievers in the matter of Faith. That is why this Surah continued to be recited when the people to whom it was addressed as a rejoinder, had died and been forgotten, and those Muslims also continued to recite it who were disbelievers at the time it was revealed, and the Muslims still recite it centuries after they have passed away, for expression of disgust with and dissociation from kufr and its rites is a perpetual demand of Faith.” [www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/mau109.html]
But why rely on Maududi when we can read the sha’n-e nodhul of this verse in the Sira? Ibn Ishaq says that when the Aposlle was going round the Ka’ba, several dignitaries of Mecca met him and told him, “Muhammad, come let us worship what you worship, and you worship what we worship. You and we will combine in the matter. If what you worship is better than what we worship we will take a share of it, and if what we worship is better than what you worship, you can take a share of that.’ So God revealed concerning them, ‘Say, 0 disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship, and I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship; you have your religion and I have mine,” i.e. If you will only worship God on condition that I worship what you worship, I have no need of you at all. You can have your religion, all of it, and I have mine.” [Sira p. 165]
As you see this verse is not about tolerance. It is a typical way a narcissist shows his disdain to those who don’t agree with him. Muhammad is saying, I don’t give a damn if you believe me or not. To you your religion and to me mine!
Do you see how Muslims twist the Quran to deceive their audience? In Islamic countries this verse is never misrepresented. Only when the audience are the non-Muslims, Muslims change the meaning of the verse to make Islam look moderate.
There was nothing tolerant in Muhammad. He was still in Mecca and had just a handful of followers when he started insulting the religion of the Quraish. When one day he was going around the Ka’ba, the elders were present. They told him to stop dividing people, setting children against their parents and inciting the salves against their masters. They asked him to not insult their gods. Muhammad then stopped and said. “Will you listen to me O Quraish? By him who holds my life in His hand I bring you slaughter.” [Sira Ibn Ishaq, p. 131]
Ibn Ishaq says, “When the apostle openly displayed Islam as God ordered him, his people did not withdraw or turn against him, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that they took great offence and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy.” [Ibn Ishaq, p. 118]
What tolerance? The Quraish were tolerant. Muhammad was never tolerant, not even when he was the underdog. He was violent from the beginning.
Do you inhale any tolerance in this verse? “Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.” (Q. 9:66)
Regards
Ali
Related Article: The Illusion of Reforming Islam
it is not really important to distinguish between moderate and radical islam. what is more important is whether islam is a scam. from what we know, it is certainly unlikely that a righteous god/allah would choose a pedophile to be his messenger.
Well your pathetic attitude have insults people many across the globe for so long (1400 years), not only in middle east, but in countries like india, myanmar, maldives, thailand, etc…
you demand exclusivity and your religion is never about peace…
as for the bombs, it is from the west whom you decide to fight against, think that as a karma for the crime you did on our land….
Well what can be moderated from the cult followers of a self appointed prophet who only thinks about sex and mindless killing like this:
“There will be markets in Paradise in which there will be no buy or sale, but there will be men and women. If any man will wish to have sexual intercourse with a woman, he will do it at once. The Hurs will sing in Paradise on divine purity and praise—we are most beautiful Hurs and we are for the honored husbands.” (p.4.430)
Ihya Ulum Al-Din – Ghazali
May you dear brother, Ali Sina, the torch holder in the time of darkness live as long as it is required to eradicate from the face of the earth the most diabolic dogma of Islam that for so long has desecrated the divine creation of God. May the Supreme Lord bless you with long life, strength, wisdom and victory over your enemies who are none others that the same enemies of the civilized world. THANK YOU for the great work in spreading the truth with heroism and erudition. And the Truth will set you free!
May you dear brother, Ali Sina, the torch holder in the time of darkness live as long as it is required to eradicate from the face of the earth the most diabolic dogma of Islam that for so long has desecrated the divine creation of God. May the Supreme Lord bless you with long life, strength, wisdom and victory over your enemies who are none others that the same enemies of the civilized world. THANK YOU for the great work in spreading the truth with heroism and erudition. “ And the Truth will set you free!”
Simple… we paint Ka'ba with the word "got busted by alisina.org"…
lol..
I enjoyed reading Ali's book… I read it in my mobile phone when lunch / free time….
why do you need a marketing team ? when Ali had 1.6 billion potential customers…
We come from different experience when encountering Islam,
but so far what's written by Ali Sina truly confirms my observations where I lived and what I read,
that's why I regularly visits this site to gain more knowledge and take my part in Ali Sina movement…
madness is only for Mo -> Mo-ham-madness…
we are the stealthy soldier who fights against Islamic Taqiyya…
Yeah… and you amin, fight physically like a donkey…
Religion and idea is subject to logical analysis, once it is proven to be the source of evil / incorrect, we simply abandon it….
Movies already out and no ones even heard of you? Why? Because Sam Bacile beat you to it.
I really do feel it for you.
So near, yet so far.
Maybe, one day, a crazy american F-16 pilot drop his plane on the Kabaah.
Struggling are we, kafir?
Yeah man I see humanity , eternity , truth and few more such words you treat as business.
Its obvious that there is no religion in world except Islam which can make a huge success by cherry picking and its part of business ! lol
Ali,
For once you have good ideas. I rather find just one or two investors who would finance everything. If someone comes up with $8 million dollars he will be my co-producer and I will not need to pitch anymore.
Yes the project is viable and business-worthy. You have no idea but there are millions of people in the anti jihad movement and their number is growing. The more aggressive Muslims become the more resilient the non-Muslims become. I am at the forefront of this movement and although it is impossible to know the exact number I can sense the growing resentment and the determination of non-Muslims to stand up against the Islamic onslaught.
Who do you think made me famous? I haven’t been in any TV shows. It is people who are frustrated with Islam who did it. A good movie about Muhammad will have millions of potential viewers. Everyone will talk about it. The content of this movie is so revealing that it will engender a lot of debates. There is so much information packed in these four hours that one who watches it can learn everything an average person needs to know about Islam. I apologize for sounding presumptuous but I think I am among the few who really has a grasp of who Muhammad was. I am not claiming I know Islam better than others, but I understand Muhammad better than most scholars I read. I have a unique perspective into the mind of Muhammad. Once this perspective becomes universally accepted it would be the end of Islam. The whole world will see Islam as a cult and Muhammad as a cult leader, no different than Charles Manson, Jim Jones and Shoko Asahara. Once that connection is made it will be the end of Islam. The movie will be an aha experience for everyone, both Muslims and non-Muslims.
The movie will be denounced and decried as lies. I am prepared for that. In the lower right corner of each scene there will be a small subtitle giving reference to the source of the story, whether it is the hadith, the Quran or the Sira. (Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Sa’d and Tabari). Whenever possible I have used the text of these sources verbatim. No one can deny the authenticity of the move.
I have always said that the best weapon against lies is truth. I have had a lot of success with my book and my sites, but the reach is limited. We need a medium to reach the masses and this movie is it.
“there are plenty wealthy Muslims out there that can easily counter any thing you put out there, just by throwing money at it.”
That would be ideal. If this movie can generate a debate, even if it is in the art arena, it would be perfect. What we need is to bring the discussion about Islam in the forefront. The more people talk about Islam the more truth will come out and the more truth comes out the weaker Islam becomes. It is like poking in a poo. The more you disturb it the worse it smells.
There have been two pro Islam movies, the Message played by Anthony Queen and The Last Prophet, an animation. Recently, someone was about to throw $150 million dollars to finance a movie about Muhammad. They hired the best producer to do it. http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/nov/02/matrix-producer-plans-muhammad-biopic Once they did the market research they realized no one wants to watch another movie about Muhammad packed with lies and abandoned the project.
My movie is based on truth and it is provocative. I suspect millions of Muslims living in Islamic countries will download it and will watch it too. It will be dubbed in most languages spoken by Muslims, Arabic, Urdu, Indonesian, Turkish, Persian, etc.
The most amazing thing about this movie is its revealing story. When Muslims watch it they will ask questions. They will find no answers. They will be told not to watch it. But that does not cut it anymore. People want to know the truth.
” If ever you do make a movie, another 10 will be made to counter yours with budgets many times larger than yours,”
Just as in real estate the main factor for profitability is location, location, location, in movies the main factor is story, story, story. If you spend tons of money building a mansion in a ban neighborhood, you lose that money. The amount of money spent to make a movie does not grantee its success. Walt Disney spent $150 million dollars to make Mars Needs Moms and they sold less than $40 million dollars. Considering only a fraction of that went to Walt Disney, you can say that movie was a total write-off. On the other hand the Blair Witch Project cost $600,000 to produce and it raked $250 million dollars in sale. Paranormal Activity cost $15,000 to produce and it made $200 million at the box office. It is all about the story and whether the story is appealing.
My story is very appealing. It is fascinating. And more importantly, it is about the most influential man in history.
“Do I want to earn money on the back of hating others. I don’t think so.”
This movie does not encourage hating just as none of my articles do. It is about the truth. You Muslims are the haters of the world. You are the ones who hate every other person who does not think like you. You want to kill other humans and do it every day. This movie explains why. It sheds light on Islam and Muslim mind by demystifying Muhammad.
Look at the reaction people show after they read my writings. They don’t hate Muslims but understand where their hate come from. Look at this old comment. http://www.faithfreedom.org/comments/commetns205.htm My writings don’t promote hate. They promote enlightenment and understanding. My movie will do the same, with a wider reach.
dear dr sina,
our best wishes are with you. please keep on doing what ur doing. ever great man has had to deal with intense criticism.
but ultimately they win against all odds. righteousness and truth cannot be supressed.
good luck.
i think everyone knows who the real enemies are. dont let these brainwashed zombies get to you.
the most intelligent speaker that muslimscould manage to produce is dr zakir naik a JOKE!
that man openly goes about rantingthat even various holy books are lies and incidently to prove his point again says that muhammad had been named in all those books thus contradictign himself in one breath.
thats the school they all come from, is there a point in even considering them seriously? none. beyond hope , brain dead.
How many humans have Atheists killed, Ali Sina?
I rest my case.
For once Ali Sina, you are right. You must treat it as a business. And that having been said, expressions of interest are not worth the paper they are written on and neither are promises.
$10 million is not a large amount of money, especially in the movie industry and especially if the project is meant to be so viable. Just one funder could arrange this amount for you and you'd have no need to pitch to numerous investors and be answerable to every Tom, Dick and Harry. 'Too many chefs spoil the broth'.
From a business point of view, if your project was viable and profit worthy, even I'd invest in it. But that is only from a business point of view, which to be fair, it is not. We have to look at the substance, the material, the competition, the repercussions and there are plenty wealthy Muslims out there that can easily counter any thing you put out there, just by throwing money at it, which will shoot down the movie before it even starts, so to speak. This is the reality you face. If ever you do make a movie, another 10 will be made to counter yours with budgets many times larger than yours, so your profit ratio will potentially decrease. Do I want to earn money on the back of hating others. I don't think so. The way I earn my wealth is honest, fair, real and has blessings in it. This is what I feel comfortable with and can sleep at night.
Anyway, don't forget to invite us to the première. We might be in our wheelchairs with pacemakers, but in 2045, we'll still be here, just about, and will get our nurses to wheel us in. 😀
“Another scam and your cult followers cannot even see it Ali Sina? $10 million dollars for someone who cannot even raise $300 per year! Yeh right.
I will raise money when I need it. I don’t need much money to run my sites. Any donation helps but I can manage that even without donations. It is barely a couple of grands per year.
As for the movie, I have already the promise of $2,000,000 and several more expression of interest from other investors. It should not be hard to raise the balance. This movie can be very profitable. It can easily become one of the most seen movies ever made. Just think of the Danish Cartoons. This can be 100 times more explosive. The Danish cartoons had no message in them. This movie is full of messages. I have packed the most salient points in the life of Muhammad in these four hours- two parts film. Once the movie is released, Muslims will have to hide out of shame. I foresee the greatest exodus from Islam in these two coming decades and this movie will be the beginning of it.
“enemies of civilization?”
Look who is talking! It is you Muslims who are the enemies of civilization. You are the ones who burned books destroyed temples, shut down universities and if given the chance will destroy all the sculptures in Italy and France and will ban the music and dance. You call us delusional? It is you who are delusional. You Muslims are barbarians. Look at Muslim countries. Which one is civilized? Incidentally the ones with more oil money are more backward.
I think everyone can afford a few dollars to buy a movie. If they can’t they can wait a few years and watch it on youtube. The investors must recover their investment. I am treating this as a business.
not necessarily made of stone . it can be made of anything like ice in kashmir, metals like gold or silver or wood anything is ok as long as we just use it as a symbol.
why kabah is cube why not it is pyramidical? why do you follow a illiterate as a prophet?
Why do you humiliate by comparing god with a pimp or a psychopath ?
Instead of meditating on the idea of god you are kissing the same old vagina shaped stone since 1400 years and circling it like a shit circles in commode don't you think it is meaningless .prophet of god must pious not a lusty wolf . Your religion is based on the needs of muhammads dick
You mean the Shiv Lingham stone that you Hindus worship denialisnoproof?
Yes you are right, that ruler was Vishnu who pissed on Shiv Lingham whilst doing Parvati and Durga at the same time.
It is true. There you go, now continue with the 'pooja' as Ha-ram-ee is calling.
"No one can afford throwing away that much money."Cost of Truth :It is clear that only rich will reach Truth
I had heard that some ruler had taken the stone and kept pissing on it for many years. Is it true?
@NNi. I already said it is more fun throwing custard pies at you retards and enemies of civilization. Intellectual debate with whom? Delusional characters like you guys and your Swami Ji Baghwan Ali Sina? No thanks.
You've got as much chance of me becoming a Non Muslim and Islam falling, as you have of India hosting the Olympics in 2016 and Durga the Hindu goddess competing in person in the 100m final and winning!
And we all know the answer to that!
The only thing you can feel is the advancement and growth of Islam. It is all around you and you still deny yourself the Truth.
Wake up and smell the coffee or at least the curry (as I don't think they have Tim Hortons in India as yet)!
Another scam and your cult followers cannot even see it Ali Sina? $10 million dollars for someone who cannot even raise $300 per year! Yeh right.
And where will it be screened on it's début? Longpi Village in India, as it sure as hell won't be screened at Cannes, Sundance or Toronto?
What happened to Hollywood or even Bollywood? You was talking and blowing your own trumpet like you had discovered something no other human has, relating to Mohammed and Islam.
Did I not say to you from the very beginning you are out to fleece the gullible from what you can?
You'd be better off using a home camcorder and filming yourself doing the acting sitting in the living room.
What's after the movie, a sitcom?
ROTFLMAO.
The movie will cost over $10 million dollars to produce. No one can afford throwing away that much money. It will be on Netfix, Hulu, Pandora, Amazon and other streaming sites. It is not going to be free, but it can be purchased and downloaded from anywhere in the world, including Mecca.
We are very much interested to see that you win this debate with Sina, because we want to know the truth, but you are only hurling insults at him and not arguing intellectually? I think u are losing this battle and u will also become a non-muslim soon because I can feel a tide of dissatisfaction in your life visible in your language…..ur words look like u know that u are wrong but u dont want to accept ur loss……grow up man, drop your ego and accept the TRUTH..
When is the movie coming? will it be on you tube?
Once the movie comes out I bet 50% of Muslims will hear about me.
You sniffing dung and getting high again Raj?
Devil's Pillar? But Mohammed is the Devil according to you, so when is this new Mohammed going to come and put his picture on the pillar?
Stick to sniffing. Your dribble makes more sense when you speak after the sniffing dung and getting high. At least we know what the excuse is!
Your Kaaba will be taken down by you Muslims only. It will happen. Do not worry.
At that time, there will be an image of Muhammad on the Devil's Pillar. And everyone will be aiming stones at Muhammad.
Ali wrote: At least 10 times.
Repaired or demolished by enemies of Allah? You are not very precise.
You see, repairing is not against the will of Allah.
But demolishing is.
The question is: Can Allah prevent it.
You are right: The Kaba is nothing but a building for children.
" When I wrote this, I have had coffee. With milk, no sugar. "
Man – if coffee makes you doolally . . . imagine what drop of something stronger will do.
When I wrote this, I have had coffee. With milk, no sugar.
You are the specialist on Islam and Allah. I am not.
Please tell me:
You Allah can act against/contrary natural laws?
You Allah knows what is in the heart of all men? Me included.
You Allah has special fellings for the Kaba? (direction of prayer)
At least 10 times. But Islam is still growing and growing.
So your grand plan has already failed. Oh…….what a shame.
Now what?
Maybe going to legoland or disneyworld and destroying one of the children's buildings hoping for Islam to fall?
JensDK . . . I don't know what substances you are taking . . . but try to stay off this site when you are under the influence.
No. Please tell us.
And how many times have it been destroyed.
How many times have Arabia been conquered, and under foreign rule. Never.
No. Arabs believe Allah protects Arabia, and when that believe is shaken, Islam will fall.
Aminriadh wrote: "So no . . . . 1% of Muslims have NOT heard of Sina."
Look at Egypt. 82 million people
40% of the egyptians have less than 2 dollars a day.
Do you really think they use their last "dollar", and skip a meal or two, just to surf the internet, and argue with Ali Sina.
And: "Then the failure of these should have been a BIG HINT. . . no? "
That is good logic, but not true.
Buddisme is not in two giant statues, but in the mind.
Can't be killed that way.
But the power of Allah is in the power to preserve the Kaba.
If Allah fails in this, he is proven powerless.
You can't compare – lets say – the Kaba to the St. Peters Dome in Rome
And my method is effective, because the message (demolishing the Kaba) will reach all muslims within a day or two,
All muslims, including those who have no internet.
Or Google earth.
Do you know how many times the Kaaba has been rebuilt JensDK?
Google maps!
1% of Muslim population implies . . . 15,000,000.
So no . . . . 1% of Muslims have NOT heard of Sina.
– – – –
"He bombed the two giant buddist statues. Why
To kill buddisme.
He bombed World Trade Center. Why.
To kill Kapitalisme and western superiousity. "
Then the failure of these should have been a BIG HINT. . . no?
@No Name
Thank you, but I know this picture.
Can you please tell me when there is no people on the square around the Kaba.
Month and time of day.
Ali Sina wrote: ""My method: Destroy the Kaba."
Believe me, if it worked I would have advocated it. But it does not work. "
Please tell me, why will it not work.
As I see it, the Kaba is the most important symbol in Islam.
All prayer are directed towards the Kaba, and all muslims have to go on pilgrimage at least once in their livetime.
Once all 360 arab gods lived in this ugly building, now only Allah.
I think late mr. Osama bin Laden has shown to us how important symbols are to Islam.
He has shown us the way.
He bombed the two giant buddist statues. Why
To kill buddisme.
He bombed World Trade Center. Why.
To kill Kapitalisme and western superiousity.
And to be honest, I like your method better that mine.
Truth is a mighty weapon, but 99% of the muslims have never even heard of you. Or?
Your ignorance so overwhelms you. You insult the brain dead Muslims who kill people while blowing themselves up, but you fail to see those who kill thousands of women and children by just a button from the skies right? who visit Arab counties to steal their oil and main their inhabitants, i am not surprise you justify of their act. its not your fault. You don't know what HUMANITY is you are just here parroting your ignorance which stinks. Tell me those who do the killings are not humans, tell me they are drones who kill in hundreds and thousands in the name of peace keeping, Then when a Frustrated Arab takes up bomb or a knife and kills people you go out making a lot of noise like donkeys braying. Please i have always taken this sight seriously, i have always thought its a sincere enough site that discuss issues in the light of reasoning, but i realize you guys are no where close to that. You are a group of Islamophobes and hate driven brain dead zombies who hide under the cloak of fighting for humanity. Here you are lying so loudly!
Your ignorance so overwhelms you. You insult the brain dead Muslims who kill people while blowing themselves up, but you fail to see those who kill thousands of women and children by just a button from the skies right? who visit Arab counties to steal their oil and main their inhabitants, i am not surprise you justify of their acts, or sorry you don't hear it reported and since they sensor the entire website they definitely know what they want running on every websites.. its not your fault. You don't know what HUMANITY is you are just here parroting your ignorance which stinks. Tell me those who do the killings are not humans, tell me they are drones who kill in hundreds and thousands in the name of peace keeping, Then when a Frustrated Arab takes up bomb or a knife and kills people you go out making a lot of noise like donkeys braying. Please i have always taken this sight seriously, i have always thought its a sincere enough site that discuss issues in the light of reasoning, but i realize you guys are no where close to that. You are a group of Islamophobes and hate driven brain dead zombies who hide under the cloak of fighting for humanity. Here you are lying so loudly!
And have you destroyed my book? You haven’t even read it. The movie is for people like you who don’t like to read.
"My method may seem slow but in reality it is the most powerful method that exists. Once the movie is released you will see the power of it. Truth is the most destructive force against falsehood. "
It'll go the same way the book has . . . impartial – out of context, full of factual errors. . . . and illogical.
Hence no credibility – even if it gets to telly – people like me would be there – to destroy it.
@Jens DK
Here are some latest visuals from Kaba that might help you in your plan
[youtube AKMANBbjBN0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKMANBbjBN0 youtube]
Great!
“My method:
Destroy the Kaba.”
Believe me, if it worked I would have advocated it. But it does not work.
My method may seem slow but in reality it is the most powerful method that exists. Once the movie is released you will see the power of it. Truth is the most destructive force against falsehood.
Ali wrote: Do I favour it in the west.
Italy and Spain both have a birthrate on 1.2.
So it would be a disaster with one-child policy there.
Italy and Spain needs all the children, they can breed
Denmark has a birthrate on 1.8, we are just reproducing.
So it is not necessary here.
Egypt needs it.
Egypt and Denmark have same inhabitable area.
In year 1800 there were 1 million people in both Egypt and Denmark.
Population in Egypt has grown into 82 millions year 2012
Population in Denmark has grown into 5½ million in 2012.
40% of the Egyptian have less than 2 dollars a day.
These people use 70% of their income on food.
Egypt import half her foodstuff.
And with the draught in both USA and India, and the cropfailure that will come this autumn, you will see prices on food rise, and riots in Egypt will follow.
Your question: "Which part of Islam is China? " only makes sense, if I had proposed a one-child policy for muslims alone.
And this was not my point.
Are you a bit paranoied?
And concerning China: You cant introduce a one-child policy in a country, that already has a one-child policy.
The point is not a one-billion population, but uncontrolled populationgrowth, as you find it in ALL muslim countries.
Having so many children, that you cant afford to feed them, clothe them, and educate them.
Ali. Remember I wrote "World-wide"
That is not to blame muslims.
But try to make some research on this.
Find birthrates for hindu indians, and for muslim indians.
Once I read that muslim indians have bigger birthrates than hindu indians, but I cant find source.
And offcause muslim Indians can be blamed for THEIR part of the overpopulation in India.
Your remarks on China clearly proves that one-child policy has helped China.
You ask: Which part of Islam is China?
I dont se the point with this question, but the answer: the northwest provinces of Xinjiang, Gansu, and Ningxia.
You are right.
Numbers of muslims is growing.
Due to very big birthrates in muslim countries.
And in Europe due to muslim immigration.
And I think that Ali Sina is in some way wrong.
Some leave Islam, but not enough.
And his method is wrong, he tries to speak logic and decency to muslims.
My method:
Destroy the Kaba.
Do not kill muslims, but destroy the Kaba, and show that Allah, the Moongod is but a demon, who cant protect his own house.
And Islam would fade away within a week.
But still I support Ali Sina.
aminriadh, You are right. It is simply impossible to hide "millions".
So maybe they dont tell.
Like me, I am still a member of the danish Peoples Church, and I figure in statistics as a evangelic lutheran Christian, but I dont believe in God.
More an agnostic I think.
And if it would be lethal to leave christianity, I would even go to church on Sonday.
Still not believing.
Dear Ali Sina.
You are right.
Same with Kurt Westergård.
As protection he had his bathroom-door enforced, and he had an alarmdevice to the police.
And still this stupid somali, this brave warrior, 29 years old, armed with an axe and no police or securityguard around, could not kill this 75 years old man.
Well, maybe there is a God anyway.
I've read somewhere where Raden Patah, the first Islamic king killed his father (Brawijaya V) because his father didn't want to convert to Islam.
I can't imagine if one day, I converted to Islam, and then I had to kill my parents, brothers, sisters, wive and childrens simply because they don't want to convert.
But if 12% are Muslims in India, then they are not the majority and cannot be blamed for the over population?
As recently as 1950, China's population was a mere 563 million. The population grew dramatically through the following decades to one billion in the early 1980s and the one child only policy was introduced in 1979. Which part of Islam is China?
Furthermore, is a world wide one child policy democratic and do you favour it in the West?
Regardless of what you say Jens DK, Islam is growing and not decreasing. Ali Sina has been desperately trying since 1994 to rid the world of Islam, but to no avail. To the contrary, Islam has grown 700% since 1900, from 200 million to 1.57 billion in 2009.
According to the UN, the following percentages apply to the growth of Islam:
Islam in North America since 1989 increased 25%
Islam in Africa since 1989 increased 2.15%
Islam in Asia since 1989 increased 12.57%
Islam in Europe since 1989 increased 142.35%
Islam in Latin America since 1989 decreased -4.73%
and Islam in Australia and Oceania / Pacific since 1989 increased 257.01%
So, the question that arises is why is Ali Sina fighting a losing battle?
Either his methods and knowledge is all wrong or Islam is right.
What would you say?
hmm . . very evil!
aminriadh is male, and thats no compliment.
"This perfectly suites YOU ! "
Julia . . . I know you fancy me. The word is "Sweet". . . I know you are VERY keen on me.
Don't worry I can live with your ups and downs. . . man one day . . . woman one night
😀 But I am spoken for. Sorry!
BLAH,BLAH,BLAH,
ALI ,LAM ,MIM ! Very original indeed.
Stupid , backward muslim !
@ Aminriadh.
You said it :What you are really saying is that you will NOT change your mind.
This perfectly suites YOU !
You are a very evil muslimslave of allah.
To the brainwashed musli(a) MoonShadow.
There is no point in having a debate with you….even if you know that your
opponent is right, you will never admit it……….instead, you become very evasive,
and start to beat about the bush.
This goes for all the muslim here ! Thank you !
YOU MUSLIMS ARE AFRAID AND INSECURE !
That's why you are always baosting like little kids.
Let us wait and see. 😉
If millions really were leaving Islam then – there would be a big noise about it. Despite:
"If you live in a muslim country, and declare yourself an apostate, you wont live long. "
– – –
Ali Sina is prone to grandiose bullshit. He has to er . . . big himself up. No one else is doing it.
China have a one-child policy, and it solved a lot of Chinas problems.
If China have not had one-child policy, there might have been 1.5 billion chinese today.
Or more:
And I wrote: "a world-wide one-child policy "
So one child-policy should cover India too.
And 12% of the Indians are muslims, and are part of the problem
But it is typical for a muslim, to point fingers at others, as if this would solve the muslim problem.
Ali wrote: "Ali Sina's comments are flawed when stating millions leaving Islam."
This need not be right.
It is absolutely possible, that Islam is growing (due to high birthrates), and at the same time people is leaving Islam in big numbers.
Hypotetical example:
Yemen will grow with more that 125 millions of people in the next 60 years.
Imagine that 100 million is leaving Islam, then Islam will grow with 25 million, a dobbleling, and still 2/3 have left.
And you cant trust statistics on the numbers on Islam.
If you live in a muslim country, and declare yourself an apostate, you wont live long.
In a perfect world your pollyanna answer would make perfect sense. But, in the real world where we all, unfortunately, have to live there are people who are actually evil. There are sociopaths, islamofascists, liars, thieves, psychopaths, murderers, and a thousand other types of self centered individuals . . . Grow up, and come live in the prison we call reality.
If mere grothh of numbers titilates you, I feel sorry for you.
compassion, helpful nature, wide range of living skills, truthfulness,
control over senses and mind, non violence towards nature ( other
human beings, animals) are noble qualities.Muslims pose a threat to
Mankind because they possess most brutal qualities. Alisina is trying to
bring some gentleness into the muslim psyche.
I am forced to agree with Alisina, that Muslims are accutely short of logical thinking.
every skill requires hard work. logical thinking is not something people are born
with. 1.6 billion people are born into Islam is no guarantee of their logical
abilities. question your own adamant blind faith Mr.Ali. That is true bravery,
not gloating over your blind faith in a criminal
I am not that important for anyone to pay for my protection. The most I can get is a change of name and go in hiding.
“Islam has octupled from 200 million to over 1.57 Billion since 1900 during a timespan of 112 years, but you believe within 20 years it will fall and become insignificant, using the argument that your self taught knowledge, blog, book and unique subjective insight of Mohammed and Islam will do the trick?”
Yes that is right. I believe most people don’t want to live in a lie. When truth about Muhammad becomes known, Muslims will leave Islam in drove.
“What surprises me more than anything so far, is why hasn’t any mainstream political party or wealthy donor around the world picked you up and paraded you around as a hero and saviour funding all your requests if you are so right?”
Because this is not about me. It is about the truth that has been embraced by millions of people now and is spreading fast. Why should I be the hero when there a so many other heroes to thank?
Not even an Ali Sina Ministry or something, albeit an Atheist Ministry?
Yes this site and faithfreedom.org are my ministries. My goal is limited in educating people about Islam. That is what these sites do.
Your motive is way too obvious.
You really really want Ali Sina to come out into the open do you?
You and your fellow muslims are unable to answer Sina's accusation on Islam, so you will want the only other obvious Muslim method: assassination. You really want Sina to be lured into the open so that he can be assassinated.
Guess what? That's not going to happen.
Obviously you guys are desperate. Good this means you are listening.
Answer ideas with ideas. Answer arguments with arguments. Answer Sina's truth, with your Quran's truth. Or even better, ask your Allah to appear to us all. Go on, almighty Allah should be able to, right?
After enough failures you may come to see that Islam is false, and Allah is non-existent, impotent, helpless and is thus totally stupid, and Muhammad's a big fat liar.
Go on, play this game.
And no, you will not be able to use assassination, we'd like to see how far Islam stands as truth on its own.
You are foolish to equate those rowdy Hindus with braindead Muslim terrorists who want to blow themselves up for 72 virgins. You must be a sick commy.
How do you it wasn't a rave party? Because media told you?
Yes, rave parties are wrong but the action against should be non-violent.
Lose.
Muslims usually resort to killing critics of Islam — whether they're guilty or not.
Islam has octupled from 200 million to over 1.57 Billion since 1900 during a timespan of 112 years, but you believe within 20 years it will fall and become insignificant, using the argument that your self taught knowledge, blog, book and unique subjective insight of Mohammed and Islam will do the trick?
Delusion is the only description that comes to mind and can be used for you and your realities. Nothing more and nothing less.
What surprises me more than anything so far, is why hasn't any mainstream political party or wealthy donor around the world picked you up and paraded you around as a hero and saviour funding all your requests if you are so right?
Not even an Ali Sina Ministry or something, albeit an Atheist Ministry?
Just ask yourself that question.
Who paid for Salman Rushdies protection and why?
Surely, being an Iranian apostate, the West will love you and give you the highest level of protection ever seen. Iran is publicly enemy number one and so is Islam. And you happen to be Iranian, ex Muslim and an arch enemy of Islam. The ingredient for protection doesn't get any better than this.
Whether you live in Canada, USA or Europe, you can demand whatever protection you so desire. As a matter of fact you can become a multi millionaire and enjoy the spoils of this world like a Caesar and have not a worry in the world. So why wouldn't you take up such a lifestyle?
If you wanted to remain in the closet, why leave Iran?
Protection means paying the salaries of at least five security guards to follow you 24/7. The government of the US pay that for Ayan Hirshi Ali’s security. Who will pay that for me? Assuming the government does, why should tax payers pay for my security when I can be wise and protect myself?
The war I am waging does not require physical battles, guns and tanks and bombs and warships. It requires a laptop and Internet connection. I can wage this ware silly in my easy chair often in pajama with my legs resting on a sultana.
Bravery is not in waging wars an killing other humans. Bravery is in daring to face our own belief and challenge things were were told and believed since childhood. Facing the invisible bogeyman in the sky and our own unfounded fears is the test of courage, not inserting a bomb in our rectum and blowing our self up in the hope of killing someone and going to heaven banging virgins. Islam does not encourage bravery but stupidity. Please do not confuse these two.
When the only thing that is in your mind is death and facing a sadistic god who will burn you in fire and make your eat puss for eternity, you are a coward. A coward because you are smarter to believe in this balderdash but the fear of this fictitious god has so paralyzed your mind that you don’t dare to question it.
I am an educator, not a leader. I don’t have an army and no followers. My job is spread the truth and inform the world about the reality of Islam. Leaders, like Geert Wilders will be born when these truths spread and I am not the only one doing it. There are now millions who are doing it. 12 years ago I said this trickle will be transformed into a torrent. I was proven right. I also predicted the end of Islam is a lot nearer than most people can even dare to imagine. This too will come to pass. Islam will survive, but it will be irrelevant like Nazism and communism are today. And it will die with those cowards who can’t dare to question the leis of Muhammad die. The next century will be an Islam free century, but we ill see the virtual end of Islam in the coming twenty years.
The so called Arab Spring that soon degenerated into Islamic winter will precipitate the process. Muslims must taste the sting of Islam to spit it out for good.
Everybody is in it for the money Jens and Ali Sina knows this deep down.
When you make a concious decision to take on a challenge or a movement and something as big as Islam, it comes with challenges, rights, responsibilities and accountability.
If you are a proponent of a movement then you must lead by example. Ali Sina does not believe in God thus no predetermined destiny here, so natural selection must take it's course.
Did Hitler live in secrecy? No. But he still openly went about his business and threatened the world without shying away from who he is.
Claims do not have to be literal and can be by proxy. So when Ali Sina says “We do not want to reform Islam. We want to eradicate it. Just as cancer cannot be reformed and the only way to cure the patient is to eradicate it, Islam cant be reformed either and it must be eradicated for the world to be saved.”
This clearly shows he wants to bring the Religion down at any cost and thus is the 'brave warrior'.
Furthermore, he states “We strive for the unity of Mankind through the elimination of Islam, the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can’t be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can’t be molded, but it can be smashed.
So you see, Ali Sina has become the 'brave warrior' by proxy and leader of the movement.
Why hide under false pretences? He is bound to die whether it be today, tomorrow or 50 years from now. And then what? Accept fate whatever that may be.
If I am going go to 'war' with a movement or government, then I must be able to face the music whatever that my be. Right?
Ali Sina knows his life is not at risk, but he still uses this lame excuse to hide behind the curtain.
Hej Ali
Your argument is wrong.
Salman Rushdie was already known, when the Fatwa was put on him, so he had to and still live under protection.
The danish cartoonists still live under protection.
One of them, Kurt Westergård was attacked by a somali with an axe in his own home in 2010.
So you see: protection is not safe, to be unknown is safe.
I would better live in secrecy that under protection.
I have followed Ali Sina for many years, and I have never seen him "claiming to be the bravest warrior"
And I think he is not in it for the money.
I think it cost him money, and a lot of time.
Moving onto your one child only policy, India and China are not Muslim nations and have over 1 billion people respectively. Where did this come from and why?
What are your thoughts?
Regardless of what the reason you quote for the increase in populations in Muslim countries thus the increase of Islam, it is still an increase. Ali Sina's comments are flawed when stating millions leaving Islam. This is not the case as statistics show otherwise.
If you on the other hand are stating that the increase has been due to medical advancement thus less mortality rates, then Islam is posed to grow even larger and faster. Why? Because medicine and technology are bound to advance therefore making the mortality rates even less in this current day and age.
So in real terms Islam is posed to GROW.
" Don't you know it can be lethal to leave Islam
So these figures will never be known. "
Cop out. It is simply impossible to hide "millions". . . also there are bodies studying such data. Especially these days.
aminriadh "millions of born Muslims leave Islam and never revert. "
Right . .. and your figures are where? "
aminriadh. Don't you know it can be lethal to leave Islam
So these figures will never be known.
Population growth figures:
Denmark 1.8
Spain and Italy 1.2
Egypt (and most muslim countries) 3.5
Palestine 6.0
This will end in caos and war.
To save the world it will be necessary to introduce a world-wide one-child policy like in China.
Then a muslim man can have four wifes, but only one child.
And if devorced, he still have used his quota.
What do you think?
Hej Ali.
You say: "Islam is not reducing but increasing."
You are right, but I think this is due to population growth, not to conversion.
Take Yemen.
In 1950 4 millionpeople lived in Yemen, today the figure is around 23 million.
So in 60 years the population in Yemen has six-dobbled.
All due to the development in the medicine-business.
Tell me: Where will Yemen be in 60 years from now. 150 million?
Or lets compare two countries. Egypt and Denmark.
Egypt, a strongbelieving muslim country, where 90% of the muslims want Sharia.
And Denmark, a Evangelic Lutheran christian country, where almost nobody believe anymore.
Denmark and Egypt have aproximately same agricultural areal.
The sea around Denmark and the desert around Egypt not included.
I year 1800 there were around 1 million people in both Denmark and Egypt.
In Denmark we are today 5½ million people
In Egypt the figure has grown into 82 million people.
Denmark has a populationgrowth = 1.8 (just reproducing)
Egypt has a population growth 3.5 (growing fast)
That is why Islam grows.
If you request a written debate rather than oral which seems quite fine to me. Then why do you still hide behind the scenes and don't come out in public for the whole world to see and give the scholars the chance to debate with you in writing? What faith can you have in your abilities of dissecting Islam and Mohammed when you are the one who hides behind a pseudonym an refuse to be identified? Exactly what scares you so much?
The excuse of your life being in danger is illogical and shows that you are scared of something? If life is so precious for you, you'd want to live forever and. 50 years if that is what you most probably have left. At least enjoy it.
Even Salman Rushdie lived life in the open with protection, after your people (Iranians) put the Fatwa on him. You don't see him hiding like you have done most of your life!
People who ardently believe in what they say and doso with conviction, are not afraid in the slightest of humans, God, gods, extra terrestrial beings and so forth.
You must be the only human on the face of the earth that is still quaking in your boots hiding in the closet but claiming to be the bravest warrior hoping to change the world forever by eradicating Islam.
Get a grip man, get a grip. Fame is never forever. Make the most of it while you can and milk it for what it's worth, which judging by your donations and book selling prices, you are.
Above I read: "Ali Sina : No in 1994 I was not 15."
Have I misunderstood? I read it like: No in 1994 I was not (yet) 15."
And that did surprise me.
Anyway, my friend, I am still impressed, maybe not for your young age, but for your great effort.
Keep up the good spirit.
If you request a written debate rather than oral which seems quite fine to me. Then why do you still hide behind the scenes and don't come out in public for the whole world to see and give the scholars the chance to debate with you in writing? What faith can you have in your abilities of dissecting Islam and Mohammed when you are the one who hides behind a pseudonym an refuse to be identified? Exactly what scares you so much?
The excuse of your life being in danger is illogical and shows that you are scared of something? If life is so precious for you, you'd want to live forever and. 50 years if that is what you most probably have left. At least enjoy it.
Even Salman Rushdie lived life in the open with protection, after your people (Iranians) put the Fatwa on him. You don't see him hiding like you have done most of your life!
People who ardently believe in what they say and doso with conviction, are not afraid in the slightest of humans, God, gods, extra terrestrial beings and so forth.
You must be the only human on the face of the earth that is still quaking in your boots hiding in the closet but claiming to be the bravest warrior hoping to change the world forever by eradicating Islam.
Get a grip man, get a grip. Fame is never forever. Make the most of it while you can and milk it for what it's worth, which judging by your donations and book selling prices, you are.
In all your replies to my queries Ali, you have been honest which is something you should be commended for. At least you've made it abundantly clear about your contempt for Islam and confirming you have an agenda. We know this has always been the case but it is refreshing to know that you still have increased fervent. Criticism of Islam has existed since Islam's formative stages and what you say is not a new phenomena. Are you a greater leader and critic than Pharaoh of Moses who persecuted the Israelites in order to keep his rule or are you more powerful than Nimrod? These are biblical personalities which you can easily reject being an atheist, so let's stick to someone closer to home. Are you more powerful than Hitler?
If you believe that the majority of converted Muslims are leaving in their droves plus millions that are born are also leaving, the religion would either be stagnant or reducing in numbers.
A comprehensive 2009 demographic study of 232 countries and territories reported that 23% of the global population, or 1.57 billion people, are Muslims. (Conducted by Pew Research)
Between 1900 and 1970 the global Muslim community grew from 200 million to 551 million.
(This research was conducted by Rev. Professor Frank Whaling, BA, MA, PhD, ThD, FRAS, FABI, FWLA, FIBA, FICS. Emeritus Professor of the Study of Religion, Edinburgh University; Methodist Minister)
Between 1970 and 2009, the Muslim population increased more than three times to 1.57 billion. (This was conducted by the Pew Research Centre)
These statistics are not derived by you or me, but independent third party non Muslims. You know full well that these to be correct otherwise you wouldn't be setting out on a personal crusade to stop the 'Islamification' of the world. Islam is not reducing but increasing. It is right in front of your face to see.
Exactly which sword and which war was used to reach these figures and what role did Mohammed play nearly 1400 years after his death for such an immense increase?
The technological advancement over the last century has given mankind access to information that has revolutionised humans. People can access information, opinions, research, historical facts at the click of a button and can be in certain locations across the globe within hours on planes in order to verify claims. This really is the era of science and technological advancement unseen in history and accelerated at a rate during the hundred years of the 20th century, more so than any other century.
We have spaceships, computers, cell phones, and the wireless Internet all being technologies we have never dreamt of.
With all this in place and if what you say was true about Muslims leaving in millions, Islam would be reducing year in and year out. However, the proof is, Islam is doing exactly the opposite of what you claim. The facts are right in front of your eyes and cannot be distorted has hearsay where journeys are taken by foot or horse on land taking months and years to verify.
The more you put your case forward, the more Islam makes sense.
Humans are not like some animals where their thinking capabilities are restricted or have no choice. We have choice. We can choose the position we want to hold despite the repercussions and decide for ourselves what we deem to be right or wrong for us giving us the comfort zones we require, using whatever measuring yard stick we deem necessary. Nobody is forcing you to be a Muslim and nobody is forcing me to jump in front of a bus. Both of us choose to hold the position we hold and do what we think is right for ourselves without impacting the other.
'Dreaming men are haunted men'.
"No my friend, only Muslims are stupid. I don't agree with any religion, but I don't call those with whom I disagree stupid. We have different understanding. Muslims are pathetic."
That is why only fellow hate mongers like Geller . . . and Spencer take you on. But even that will be to use you.
You'll get dropped faster than you can say your real name. . . if it isn't in their interest. This is why you have to sing their praises. Some has to fund that movie!
I don't doubt – Spencer can raise hell of lot of money.
" If you read my book you get the same awakening. "
I have – and its a pile of rubbish. . . from language style, design to the content.
– – –
If it was that brilliant – and you have got $50,000 stored up . . . why couldn't you get a proper marketing team?
"Although 80% of those converting to Islam leave it, millions of born Muslims leave Islam and never revert. "
Right . .. and your figures are where?
– – –
"Although Muslims advertise when someone converts to Islam. They keep it hush when people leave Islam. This is a very cultic mentality. No one put the pictures of the apostates in the newspapers and gloat over it. Most apostates keep their apostasy a secret for obvious reasons. "
Right . . . but no one is asking you for Muslim figures . . . show up any? Surely with all this IMPRESSIVE Western academic & technological superiority . . . there would be plenty of sources floating about.
" But I am believe few people have grasped the mind of Muhammad as well as I have. "
But you haven't really convinced anyone of that. . . not even Spencer will say that of you. You make these egotistical statements all over the place. . . yet you cannot even back them up.
– – –
"This is what Zakir Naik does. "
Yet – Naik isn't considered as an Islamic scholar – in the sense of being "Qualified".
– – –
"So bring someone who you think is invincible and withing a few sessions I will show his arguments are all based on logical fallacies. No one can believe in Islam without logical fallacies. It is impossible. "
He he he. . . what about your own darling? The only reason you want Islamic scholars is for legitimacy. . . to climb up the ladder.
Yet you haven't been able to do it on your own merits. . . No matter how many "Dr.'s" you stick in front of your name. . . which subject was it? Where from?
“I want to hear from Ali Sina regarding all the above please, so we can gauge exactly what he possesses that the majority of us don’t. ”
It is preposterous to make that claim. Who said I possess something others don’t. I have an insight into the mind of Muhammad that I believe few do. That is all. And this did not come to me because I am smarter, but because I studies Islam critically, studies other faiths and cults and joined the dots.
When I read the Quran I realized this book is not from God. Then I wanted to know why Muhammad was so convinced of his claim. You can’t fool so many people for so long, while you live in their midst. So something was there that needed explanation. I posed the right question and found the right answer. It is as simple as that. For me it was not enough to say ah Muhammad was a liar. That answer was not satisfactory. I made some research in cults and in psychology and everything fell into place. If you read my book you get the same awakening.
“Michael H Hart holds a doctorate and a number of other degrees. Was he wrong when he listed Mohammed as the world’s most influential person using a 30 point criteria fulfilling category in his book? If so, how and why? ”
I have dedicated an entire chapter to this point in the latest edition of my book. I fully agree with Hart that Muhammad was the most influential person in history. I have gone into details, something Hart has not done to show in what ways he was influential and demonstrate that his influence was extremely destructive.
Remember that Hart, does not differentiate between people with positive influence and negative influence. His list include Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Machiavelli. The world would have been a far better place without the influence of Muhammad.
” in the UK in the last 10 years, over 100,000 people have converted to Islam with the average convert being white, female and 27 years old. What sword was used here under the noses of the British Government and are these people who converted intellectually challenged? ”
4 out of 5 people who convert to Islam leave it withing five years. This statistic comes from Muslims. If you dispute it I will dig it for you. Those who leave Islam become its mortal enemies. This is is not so with Christians or people of other faiths leaving their religion. So the more you convert the more enemies you make in the long run.
Although 80% of those converting to Islam leave it, millions of born Muslims leave Islam and never revert.
What is the difference. Those who convert to Islam convert because they are lied to. Jihad has two wings. One is terror and the other is deception. It is true that they were not forced to convert, but they were deceived. Once the deception is uncovered they leave Islam.
Although Muslims advertise when someone converts to Islam. They keep it hush when people leave Islam. This is a very cultic mentality. No one put the pictures of the apostates in the newspapers and gloat over it. Most apostates keep their apostasy a secret for obvious reasons.
“Are you saying that nearly 23% of the world’s population are inherently stupid, whilst you one are superiority genius and can deduce reason and logic whilst these billion plus cannot?”
Yes. Invite the most learned scholars of Islam and I ask them questions and will show you that they don’t understand Islam. They have a lot of knowledge about Islam, ten times or 100 times more than me, but they don’t understand it. I hope it does not sound presumptuous because I really am not. But I am believe few people have grasped the mind of Muhammad as well as I have.
You say, what is the proof. There are two ways I can prove that. One is that you read my book and the other is that you invite a very learned Muslim scholar to debate with me. I will not debate verbally because we know that 93% of communication is paralinguistic. This finding makes oral debate a completely unreliable tool for fact finding. A written debate eliminates all paralinguistic influences. If facts are not there one cannot dupe the public with oratory skills. This is what Zakir Naik does. He has memorized a lot of verses. That is a skill. His audience become impressed by his memory and do not pay attention that what he says is garbage.
Writer, politician and great roman orator, Marcus Tulius Cicero (106-43 BC) said, “Nothing is so unbelievable that oratory cannot make it acceptable.”
Yes truth is more powerful than falsehood, just as sun is more powerful than darkness. However, the sun can be covered with dark clouds and so the truth with the power of oratory.
British novelist Joseph Conrad (1857-1924) wrote, “He who wants to persuade should put his trust not in the right argument, but in the right word. The power of sound has always been greater than the power of sense”.
So bring someone who you think is invincible and withing a few sessions I will show his arguments are all based on logical fallacies. No one can believe in Islam without logical fallacies. It is impossible.
I don’t see so much asininity in any religion as I see in Islam. Do The Christians worship is pedophile? Do they follow a mass murderer? Did Jesus assassinate his critics? Did he invite his detractors to curse each other to find who is telling the truth? Did he live off the stolen money? No my friend, only Muslims are stupid. I don’t agree with any religion, but I don’t call those with whom I disagree stupid. We have different understanding. Muslims are pathetic.
And Jesus and Moses? They also have a large following of people and claimed Prophet-hood from God, similar to Mohammed?
So Christians and Jews are also stupid in line with your logic?
What about the remainder of the queries?
” Are you saying that nearly 23% of the world’s population are inherently stupid,”
Not inherently! They become stupid through indoctrination. Yes any person who believes in the asinine lies made up by Muhammad is stupid.
Something stupid does not become smart if believed by a large number of people.
Like I asked earlier, exactly when did Ali Sina become a Dr and in what?
Furthermore, why hasn't he closed his website despite being proven wrong time and time again.
There is an old saying 'the proof is always in the pudding'. If Mohammed and Islam is such a vile person and religion, exactly why do over 1 billion people subscribe to them. Are you saying that nearly 23% of the world's population are inherently stupid, whilst you one are superiorly genius and can deduce reason and logic whilst these billion plus cannot? I want reasonable logical answers here with rational thinking and not subjective opinions.
Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation on earth. Exactly which sword was used to spread Islam here?
Furthermore, in the UK in the last 10 years, over 100,000 people have converted to Islam with the average convert being white, female and 27 years old. What sword was used here under the noses of the British Government and are these people who converted intellectually challenged?
Michael H Hart holds a doctorate and a number of other degrees. Was he wrong when he listed Mohammed as the world's most influential person using a 30 point criteria fulfilling category in his book? If so, how and why?
What is the age of consent in Bolivia and some States in Mexico and what religion do they practice?
I want to hear from Ali Sina regarding all the above please, so we can gage exactly what he possesses that the majority of us don't.
The floor is yours.
Thank you, but I think you are off a bit with numbers. In 1998 I was older than 20.
Muslims think, that Jesus was a great prophet.
Jesus said: Be aware of false Prophets, who deceive multitudes.
Mr. Sina.
I am impressed:
You say: In 1994 I was not 15.
You say: I say proudly, I started it. and you started this in 1998, not yet 20 years old.
And it is still living, strong and relevant.
All these years, still following same line.
You iranians are pretty bright, when not paralysed by Islam.
"There are fundemantalist among Christians also, and those are also violent and fierce. Why picking only on Islam……!!! "
Oh, absolutely – that's why we're always hearing about them blowing up people in suicide bombings and the absolute worst are the Amish Terrorists along with the Quakers of course
What are you saying here?
Either there are verses in the Koran that say “Islam is for all” (so to speak), in which case they falsify the verses Ali Sina used, in which case the Koran is falsifying itself since why would the “All-knowing” Allah need to change his mind about this? Islam either is or it is not for all.
Sadly you missed the point: if the Quran falsifies itself it is a “pack of lies and contradictions”, if it doesn't (because there are no verses that say “Islam is for all”) then it isn't a universal religion.
So, which is the case? Does the Koran contradict itself – you claim it does “he knew full well there are verses in the Quran that imply Islam is not limited to Arabs” – thus you concede the point that “the Quran is a pack of lies and contradictions” because you are saying that it falsifies itself.
Thus you prove Ali Sina's case for him. As the Americans would say “Good Job!”.
Srimad Bhagavatam verse 1-7-16
" DharmaShAstra says:
agnido garadashchaiva
shastrapANir dhanApahH
kshetradArA haraischava
shhadete hi AtatAyinah
an arsonist, one give poison to other, one who attacks with weapon
on another who has no weapon, one who steals another's money,
one who illegally possesses another's land, and one who kidnaps
another's wife; these six are AtatAyis."
Srimad Bhagavatam verse 1-7-54:
"Krishna says: ..It is proper to kill an AtatAyi."
Mohammad was a massive Atatayi. Those who believe in Mohammad
are Atatayis by their inborn Ignorance. All freethinking societies of the world
should proscribe Islam & Mohammad and dedoctrinate Muslims
You are very bossy.
It was not the donkey's fodder. This fodder turned anyone who ate it into a vulture and a vampire.
"Ali Sina has a doctorate in one of the scientific disciplines, hence he is Dr. Ali Sina. "
Which one? And where from?
Ali Sina has a doctorate in one of the scientific disciplines, hence he is Dr. Ali Sina.
See you get people like this supporting you. . . a Hindu – there a quiet a few of them who supports you. Yet you would take their support. . . and not see the hypocrisy of it.
The exact same this that you claim to eradicate – yet when it comes in form other than Islam. . . you side by it.
That is why Sina. . . you have no trouble siding with the likes of Spencer.
Mr. Ali Sina is doing great service to mankind by exposing Islam – which is dangerous to humankind. It is thanks to him that people are seeing the real face of Islam and understanding the reason for the turmoil in Islamic world. Dear Sina keep up your good work – r u there on facebook?
"Author was present in those situations in 7th century working for media company 7th century fox ! "
Oh… how witty! Yea!!!!!!
You agreed that you could not discern whether an article is right or worng as you weren't a "professional".
You admitted you were wrong about Galileo – and in fact he wasn't standing against the whole world.
These are just 2 examples. . .where you er… ended up changing your mind.
" I live in the real world. For me, those are not "stories", but news reports and take them seriously. "
As you have previously admitted that you do not have the skills – to figure out how to discern the validity of something . . . so this is rather obvious.
It doesn't matter to you one iota – whether something is right or wrong.. .. as long as it is anti-Muslim/Islamic – you will hold it to be true.
That is why when you are questioned – you retreat into a shell and start hurling meaningless phrases. . .
I think you live in a different world than I do! Must be real nice there. There must be pretty flowers everywhere. Well, enjoy that world MoonShadow. I unfortunately, am not that lucky. I live in the real world. For me, those are not "stories", but news reports and take them seriously.
Don't be so pompous like a turkey. I scanned the first story and did not bother
about the rest. The first one was talking about stoning. I wonder where did
the Muslims learned that? Hey, I think Jesus protected an adultress from
some Jews who were stoning her, and he told them: The one without a sin,
let him cast the first stone.
Stoning is not practiced at all in the Arab world, because stoning is not even
mentioned in the Quran. You might here every now and then a story of stoning
taking place in some primitive tribes. A couple of years ago, a girl was stoned
to death in the North of Iraq…….they were not even Muslims, they were Yaziddia
or the Devil Worshipers.
Happy about dozen stories about billions Muslims? lol
Shameless tell me what you want to see in the world news?
If crooked mind developed a story about When, why and how verses are revealed , it changes the core. A believer is not a mad person but guided to react to the situation effectively.
Author was present in those situations in 7th century working for media company 7th century fox !
You haven't explored human nature ! You should say "We women fight verbally seldom use logic ".
Those questions used to confuse me also, but not any more.
I did not say that all the Quran is right……….I said there are
good things in it…….it has its bright side and its dark side,
like any other "holy" book.
There are fundemantalist among Christians also, and those are
also violent and fierce. Why picking only on Islam……!!!
"How did you expect me to fight? Physically? That is for animals. We humans fight verbally and use logic."
If you had applied this "logic" you might have managed to figure out that…. the implication was in the "like women" bit.
Also how can you fight physically? And with whom…. hence the person made it clear:
"Ms Ali Sina, she fight [[[verbally]]] like women lol"
" involving followers of Islam, fabricated within last one day alone"
You said it! Oh…. there is such a naivety about you. I wouldn't be surprised if you were no older than 16.
"First time ever I agree with aminriadh. "
No it isn't – you have agreed with me before… albeit reluctantly and eventually.
If this was even remotely true:
"Every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."
Then there would be a massive furor. But there isn't.
——————
First time ever I agree with aminriadh. There are a lot fewer Muslims leaving Islam. FFI needs to work harder, and figure out news ways to get the truth out to people.
@ Aminriadh, and every other highly educated genius whose main aim is to keep FFI's "ego" in check, instead of refecting on their own shamelessness,
Here are a couple of news stories involving followers of Islam, fabricated within last one day alone- http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/368221/20120730… http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/alevi-familys-ho… http://www.rnw.nl/africa/bulletin/motorcyle-gunme… http://www.khaama.com/mosque-explosion-kill-5-peo… http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/2012/07/30/62-ar… http://www.theborneopost.com/2012/07/30/11-nabbed…
No! Wonder where you heard that from.
Sikhs grow hair simply because the tenth Guru of Sikhs told them to keep hair. That's the only reason. Islam has nothing to do with it.
The only thing that Islam has to do with the commands of tenth Guru is that it (islam) acted as a catalyst for the movement that he started (Khalsa).
How did you expect me to fight? Physically? That is for animals. We humans fight verbally and use logic.
"But then I deduced this from whatever little I know of Gandhi. I am not a expert on him either. "
You are expert of nothing… yet very quick to pass rash judgements.
"You very cheeky ! Are you male or female."
Done and dusted.
OK, Thanks for the information.
Is this true Sikhs in India grew hair coz they took an oath that they will cut their hairs after eradicating Islam?
Gandhi was indeed killed by a Hindu although I do not know what motivated the assassin. And those Muslims were not "hepless" as you put it, they were just like any other ordinary Indians of the time, only better organized.
Mahatma Gandhi was afflicted with the same conditions as many leaders of today. He was politically correct and thought appeasement was the solution to the troubles caused by Muslims. But then I deduced this from whatever little I know of Gandhi. I am not a expert on him either.
You very cheeky ! Are you male or female.
This is the same Christianity that will not believe a word Katani has to say… but will unquestionably take this!
"We Muslims proudly claim that Islam is the fastest-growing religion. Islam is not the fastest-growing religion in terms of conversion. Sheikh Ahmad Al Katani gave Aljazeera T.V. the following facts and figures: “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity.” (note that even two professors and Imams of Egypt’s most prestigious Al Azhar University, Dr. Mustafa (now Mark Gabriel) and Dr. Mohammad Rahoumy (now Dr. Samuel Paul) have left Islam, because of the unacceptable teachings of the Koran.)"
This site by Spencer is massively biased…. and he is nothing more than a hate monger.
If this was even remotely true:
"Every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."
Then there would be a massive furor. But there isn't.
– – –
Yet when it came to highlighting:
"(note that even two professors and Imams of Egypt’s most prestigious Al Azhar University, Dr. Mustafa (now Mark Gabriel) and Dr. Mohammad Rahoumy (now Dr. Samuel Paul) have left Islam"
Poor – you can add several 000 at the number of people that convert away from Christianity.
– – –
Look at what PEWforum reports…
http://www.pewforum.org/future-of-the-global-musl…
– – –
This is why I find it strange that sites such as this – proclaiming to be so anti-Islam and all religions – but will lap up such bile. That is why – such claims have no standing at all from an academic perspective.
– – –
Go to Muslim sites – you will find many such claims.
Ali, MoonShadow ,Aminriadh
Have you read this letter? This circulates in this part of the world. Is there any truth in it or all are blasphemy? Thanks
http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/63-letters/961…
"Ali Sina's statements are suffient, no need to back it up. I have lots of better things to do with my time, will leave it to the experts. Just happy that I feel liberated. "
Meaning when it came down to it – you are coping out. You ain't got it son. As for liberation… you weren't ever a Muslim.
If you can't deal with it – then don't stick your nose in. Quite simple really.
Writing a very own screen play of same story making him feel innovative lol
Prophecy is defined as talking , criticizing all about Islam whole life lol
Ms Ali Sina, she fight verbally like women lol
dose
Ali Sina's statements are suffient, no need to back it up. I have lots of better things to do with my time, will leave it to the experts. Just happy that I feel liberated.
Islam calls your grandmother mother , sister, daughter a donkey.
Attention Moderate Muslims,
Weather you differ or the same , you should be doing what Anti-Islamist are expecting from you
Good Luck
Yes I can give you the topics, you can search.
In the state of Karnataka, the crop is poor because rains are scanty this year.Instead of providing alternate means of irrigation,the state Government is arranging a puja(worship) of Varuna(Hindu God of Water).
Two days ago,a group of men and women were attacked and dispersed from a building by a group of radical hindus who alleged that they were having a rave party.Okay maybe those people were not doing great things,but there is a police and administration.Why go about threatening people?
"Stop being lazy. First read all his articles and debates , verify them before you want to make comments. "
I take it you have done that. . . then lets talk about his article:
"Is Islam for All Mankind? Not According to the Quran"
I can point out the hocus pocus…
"Now, I am sure some Muslims can quote other verses that say Islam is for all mankind. If they do so, they will prove that the above verses are false."
See this line said it all… he knew full well there are verses in the Quran that imply Islam is not limited to Arabs. And that he was clearly fiddling with all the verses to suit his meaning. Leaving out those that didn't match. A trade mark style of his – oft repeated.
"Either the Quran is a pack of lies and contradictions or it is only for the Arabs of Mecca and its surrounding. You decide which."
That is why he never dealt with it – if there were such errors and contradictions . . . he would have highlighted them as a killer blow.
Another reason? Because that is not very original. It is one of those things that does the rounds. He probably did not want to overexert himself.
– – –
Now I am prepared to talk about this… lets see how you do – shall we?
"then you haven't studied Islamic history. "
Neither have you.
– – –
"When Muslims were ruling over north/ northwestern India, they destroyed thousands of temples, and killed countless people. "
That is simply your claim… any references?
– – –
"Over time they were able to radicalize Akbar's great-grandson Aurangzeb, who again destroyed thousands of temples, killed people, and forcibly converted people. "
And there were that many temples to destroy? References?
– – –
"Even outside of the capitals, there were always plenty of radiacals. A popular sufi poet of Punjab, Bulleh Shah was refused burial after his death. His body was thrown in the garbage dump, and his house was burnt. All the poet's 'moderate' admirers were nowhere to be seen. "
Where did you get this from?
– – –
"During the partition of India, it was the Muslim radicals who started their massacre campaign which eventually led to the death of a million people."
Blatant lie – else back this up – and not with links to Hindu extremists sites – like you do with spreading Christian propaganda.
He he . . . that is sad!
Diarrhoea is the best solution used to shut the mouths of donkeys like
you…..who they can only echo whatever they hear. You agree 100%
on all what is said by Sina because your head is empty and you don't
bother to do your search. I do not expect you to realize that all
the accusation you made fit you, how can I expect you to realize anything
with this donkey-head you have on your shoulders. (with my apologies
to donkeys).
"The change was due to the realization that there is no moderate Islam"
But you started to document your diary or autobiography after your
"realization", and your "enlightenment". The purpose of this autobiography
was to first step toward finishing something you "realized" that it
is evil.
I suggest you up date your biography……part of it does't match what you are
writing now, and it is causing confusion to the reader.
Then why is it that people like you ONLY give obvious statements – and never back it up?
Hence rendering you comments pretty meaningless….
– – –
"You haven't provided any proof but diarrhoea. Your stupid psychology will never break Dr Sina. He is quite resilent. "
It take you believe . . . he has been gotten at. And is feeling the heat…. why else make such comments?
Stop being lazy. First read all his articles and debates , verify them before you want to make comments.
You haven't provided any proof but diarrhoea. Your stupid psychology will never break Dr Sina. He is quite resilent. Been following his debates for the last 9 months. Most of what I've read makes sense. It is not possible for me to verify everything he has said that is why I say most. The ones i have verified makes 100% sense. Even a little kid will understand becos he makes it so simple. But when you are brainwashed as in your case you would act the way you are acting now.Wake up and smell the coffee.
Weird ! I heard the same story, but up-side-down. I also heard that
Gandhi was killed by a Hindu because of his support to the hepless
Muslims. The history tells us that Gandhi was a peaceful, wise
leader, therefore he couldn't be supporting the wrong doers.
People look at the same story from differend angles.
Why is it that you are ONLY capable of such statements? That's is airing your views?
"Expose and stop these deceivers. They are our real enemy not the terrorists. "
i.e. Muslims (virtually all of them)
@ knowTheEnemy – As per usual you have trouble adding 2+2.
"Are there moderates there who believe that the Blasphemy Law should be repealed? Of course there are. But they never dare to publicize their views. "
You are simple incorrect on this. Also are you confining the definition of moderates to those who do not believe in the Blasphemy Law? If yes… on what basis?
– – –
"A few who did, like Salman Taseer were assasinated even though they held powerful govt positions. "
Again – besides Taseer? Who?
– – –
" So what good are the moderates? It is wiser for them to discard their entire belief system, and start from scratch. "
You have trouble understanding that . . . people believe in something of their own accord and something as whole [sum of]. It has got nothing to do with particular issues. Hence your comment simply reflects the projection of your own bias… and that is a ridiculous thing to do.
– – –
"What Dr. Sina is trying to say IMO, is that, what good are those 'moderates' if they are almost guaranteed to become powerless against radicals. What good is their message, if it is never going to be influential, and has a very high chance of losing to the radicals' message? It is wise therefore, to discard the ENTIRE message, including the ‘good’ message. "
Is this what Sina is saying? Yet you fail to see that "moderates" believe in their "moderation" perhaps just as strongly as the fanatics do. Hence:
"It is wise therefore, to discard the ENTIRE message, including the ‘good’ message. "
But knowing Sina's views – it is OBVIOUS he would say this. Such bias is pretty meaningless.
– – –
" Let me see if I can help you understand. There certainly are a few good things in the Quran. The moderate Muslims give more importance to the good things in the Quran and less to others. The more devout ones on the other hand spend more time analyzing and figuring out what is Halal and what is Haram, as a result of which, they become radicals, and start conflicts. "
That is simply your misguided understanding and your own projection.
Well, since you are already visiting this website, don't leave empty handed. Please watch this comic where, a pathetic man breaks promises he made to his wives. (Note: Comic is fully backed by reliable hadiths.)
http://prophetmuhammadillustrated.com/muhammad-an…
If you think radicals started showing up/ increasing only in this era, then you haven't studied Islamic history. Let me give you a few examples from Indian history alone. When Muslims were ruling over north/ northwestern India, they destroyed thousands of temples, and killed countless people. During the time of Akbar (a liberal ruler) the radicals of his court were never happy and always complained of his liberalism. Over time they were able to radicalize Akbar's great-grandson Aurangzeb, who again destroyed thousands of temples, killed people, and forcibly converted people.
Even outside of the capitals, there were always plenty of radiacals. A popular sufi poet of Punjab, Bulleh Shah was refused burial after his death. His body was thrown in the garbage dump, and his house was burnt. All the poet's 'moderate' admirers were nowhere to be seen. Two of the Sikh Gurus from Punjab were killed when they refused to convert to Islam. Yet another Guru rebelled and was eventually killed while on the run. During the partition of India, it was the Muslim radicals who started their massacre campaign which eventually led to the death of a million people.
These are examples from northwest India alone. You can find such examples all over the Islamic worlds’ history.
Some one has mentioned – that you are evasive – you bypass crux of the argument and start rambling you views… but we already know them!
– – –
"Muslims don't know the Quran and they know even less the Sira of their prophet."
Right… and you are the 1st who has done such research? You make such generalisations… I honestly sit here wondering how aware you are of that.
The fact is that the West has been at it for centuries – most of their prestigious universities have Middle Eastern departments. They've produced many scholars in the field.
– – –
" If Muslims learn the truth about Islam and Muhammad, most of them will leave Islam. "
So why don't they? Muslims have thousands of religious scholars… what you really mean is believe in what you believe in.
– – –
As far as the veracity of you "Islamic" knowledge goes… that is questionable…And if your book is anything to go by – then it leaves a lot to be desired.
I know many important Islamic books are written in Persian… however the importance of Arabic cannot be underestimated… the types of claims you are making – one would expect you to be a competent scholar of the language… a simple unasked question?
"Yeah, prove me wrong and I admit I was wrong. I haven't been proven wrong on Islam and Muhammad. "
Such claims are meaningless and rhetorical. There are quiet a few such claims floating around the internet.
What you are really saying is that you will NOT change your mind.
– – –
Isn't this EXACTLY like the theory you presented about Prophet Muhammad and the leadership of Qurasih?
"But the fact is that I am not that important."
Really? Ah… but you got upset when Sheila Musaji referred you as "insignificant".
You can't be Islam's archenemy coz minimum you require to be perfect blend of methods and madness. You are not soldier coz you hide.
The time is nigh…my dear Ms Ali Sina.
"My plan is to eradicate Islam " Where did you made plan? over board? army? Internet ? lol
A vision is looking out of window and pimps look into window !
lol
There Is No God, But Ali Sina Is The Best Prophet
More than once I proved that you are wrong, but as I said you are
elusive and try to escape from every evidence I provide by your
blah blah blah. You determined to destroy Islam no matter what,
and even if this takes the whole injustice and lies in this world.
Scientists admit they are wrong, because their goal is constructive,
but you will never admit you are wrong because your goal
is destruction……..and that's why I said the issue is different.
Yes, this right with no doubt. The moderate Muslims don't argue with the radicals
because they know the consequences. But this is not the opinion of Sina,
he says that there are NO moderates, and all the Quran is evil.
Any sane person, whether Muslim or not, will notice the prejudice and hate
and determination in destroying a certain principle and a certain group.
So, there are moderate Muslims, and only in this era recently we started to notice
that the radicals are increasing………why? because people like Sina created
them. They are the product of all this assault and hate. Terrorism is just
a reaction.
I’d be more than delighted if I become known Islam’s archenemy. But the fact is that I am not that important. I am even happy to be known as one of the soldiers in the war against Islam.
I will never admit Islam is true because it is not more than clear to me that Muhammad was a mentally sick man and extremely evil. He was like Hitler, not me. I have never killed anyone and have no such macabre plans. I never claimed to be the leader of anything and never demanded blind obedience. I want people think for themselves and live free of mental bondage.
I also have a plan. My plan is to eradicate Islam with the most powerful weapon known to man: the truth.
When did Ali Sina become a Dr?
Of course it is different with Ali Sina. He suffers from Mythomania but points fingers at others. This dude will never admit Islam is the Truth and is out to be recognized as Islam's arch enemy. He's more dangerous than Hitler. At least Hitler had a plan.
Much smarter than you Ali. That's for sure. Why haven't you closed down your website and why haven't you debated on paltalk?
By the way, how's your fleecing the public getting on for your hate mongering movie talk and why hasn't the Government closed your bank accounts? You are Iranian ain't you?
These two statements are not contradictory. The good things Muhammad said was not something others did not know. They were banal things such as give to the poor and the orphan. In practice he reduced people into poverty and slavery and made countless orphans. What Rumi confuses with meant are the asinine claim of tawhid, the sovereignty of God, heaven and hell and other absurdities that constitute the foundation of Islam.They are all junk.
Yeah, prove me wrong and I admit I was wrong. I haven’t been proven wrong on Islam and Muhammad.
Let me see if I can help you understand. There certainly are a few good things in the Quran. The moderate Muslims give more importance to the good things in the Quran and less to others. The more devout ones on the other hand spend more time analyzing and figuring out what is Halal and what is Haram, as a result of which, they become radicals, and start conflicts.
The default in such conflicts is always that the radicals become stronger, and this is apparent from studying/ observing their societies. There may be some exceptions but those are just that – exceptions. The moderates stay silent, because they know the consequences to their person, of opposing radicals.
What Dr. Sina is trying to say IMO, is that, what good are those 'moderates' if they are almost guaranteed to become powerless against radicals. What good is their message, if it is never going to be influential, and has a very high chance of losing to the radicals' message? It is wise therefore, to discard the ENTIRE message, including the ‘good’ message.
Take Pakistan for example. Are there moderates there who believe that the Blasphemy Law should be repealed? Of course there are. But they never dare to publicize their views. A few who did, like Salman Taseer were assasinated even though they held powerful govt positions. Radicals on the other hand, openly support Blasphemy Law without any fear of moderates, or any other fear. So what good are the moderates? It is wiser for them to discard their entire belief system, and start from scratch.
Hope this helped.
Who are the Hindu radicals? Do you have any links that provide more information? Thanks.
The link to Maududi's commentary/ interpretation on Sura 109 has changed. Here is the new link:
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/maududi/intro…
How do you say that there is no meat in the Quran and all of it is donkey's fodder,
while prior to this you said Mohammad said good things so that people would
believe him, and if he didn't say anything good no one would follow him,…..
did you forget what you said? You always contradict yourself, or perhaps
you change your mind often?
There is no point in having a debate with you….even if you know that your
opponent is right, you will never admit it……….instead, you become very evasive,
and start to beat about the bush. Listen, after fifteen years o af hard work on
one of his researches, a scientist admitted that he was wrong. But I guess
the issue with you is completely different.
When I was a believer, I knew as much as other Muslims know about their religion, i.e. nothing. Yes I had heard all those lies about how great Muhammad was, for example when he told a mother to bring her child the next day to tell him not to eat dates because on that day he had eaten it. (how ridiculous) and other lies such as a Jewish woman throwing garbage at him and when she got sick he paid her a visit. In 1994 I started reading the Quran carefully and I read it in Arabic using Persian and English on the side as help. It was then that i learned the truth.
Muslims don't know the Quran and they know even less the Sira of their prophet. It is funny that in the forum of FFI a Muslim had not even heard the word Sira and thought I am ignorant for pronouncing Sura the wrong way. Go figure the knowledge of Muslims about their religion. I know that Holland has not read the Quran either. I can see that from the errors in his writings, when I read the chapter he wrote in his book. If Muslims learn the truth about Islam and Muhammad, most of them will leave Islam.
No in 1994 I was not 15. The debates with my relative happened when I was in Iran prior to the revolution. I left Iran when I was 16.
The change was due to the realization that there is no moderate Islam. There are terrorists and ignorant Muslims. We were among the latter group.
Yes many Muslims take what is good in the Quran and leave what is bad. In fact Jalalledin Rumi says, We took the meat from the Quran and left the shell for the donkeys. But that is wishful thinking. In a few days I will publish an article exposing the gullibility of Rumi. Not even he could escape the poison of Islam. There is no meat in the Quran. All of it is donkey’s fodder.
When the so called moderates and the fundamentalists debate, it is always the latter that win. Once you accept that the Quran is the verbatim word of God you disarm yourself and give all the victory to the fanatics who then can quote the Quran and show you are wrong and they are right.
Where I wrote about my biography, I also mentioned the heated debates that I had with a husband of an aunt. He was a fundamentalist. I had those debates because I was ignorant of Islam. When I read the Quran and learned more, I realized he was right and I was wrong.
Politicians shamelessly take the side of Islam because of snake oil salesmen like Holland who are always there to tell them how Islam is a wonderful religion and that the criminal Muhammad was the mercy to all the worlds. Expose and stop these deceivers. They are our real enemy not the terrorists.
And the followers of Muhammad who believe in jinns and think their prophet rode a donkey to heaven are smart? You people believe urine of camel is medicine and see nothing wrong in the fact that your prophet had sex with captive women and a child. That is smart.
Unfortunately, I know none.
I haven't seen any muslim ready to accept obvious flaws in the Quran.Maybe I don't know enough.
Mere articles can't change the political class.
India is facing the problem of religious radicalization – of both Hindus and Muslims.And each is providing fuel to the other.
What makes you that expert?
"Mr Ali Sina has made me understand Islam more. THANK YOU MR. ALI SINA".
Welcome to group #1 (the donkeys).
Sina's supporters are two groups:
#1- their symbol is the donkey
#2- their symbol is the fox
It is apparent that you are new, thus you will belong to #1.
You will have to be trained very well and learn all the
tricks before you are promoted to group #2.
Listen to another paragraph from your biography:
I recall discussing religion with the husband of one of my aunts when I was about 15 years old. He was a fanatical Muslim who was very concerned about the fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence). It prescribes the way Muslims should pray, fast, run their public and private lives, do business, clean themselves, use the toilet, how to urinate, and defacate and copulate. I argued these have nothing to do with the true Islam.
So you know something about Islam in your early youth, and your knowledge about it did not start
in the year of 1994, as you mentioned above. I don't think you were 15 years old in 1994……..or
were you ??
Sina, the experts tell you not to lie if you have a bad memory.
Sina, the following is from your autobiography:
' I was born into a moderately religious family. On my mother’s side I have a few relatives who are Ayatollahs. '
In the above sentence, you admitted that there are "Moderately" Muslims, and your family
was one. What is behind this change of your mind?
In the previous topic you said: " People of all faiths have managed to take what is good and leave what is bad from their sacred books Muslims don't have that luxury. they think Muhammad had nothing to do with the Quran and it is all the words of God. So they can't get rid of all the evil teachings of the Quran".
I assure you many of the Muslims also managed to take what is good and leave what is bad from
their sacred book. I personally, know numerous of them, and I am certain that you also know
some.
Thanks for sharing this Ali,
As an Indian, I am always worried about future of my nation with islam cutting its edges for centuries. We lost afganistan, pakistan,, kashmir, bangladesh and now about to loose Assam, West Bengal and Kerala!
I am extremely surprised to see the media playing as a silent observer of a silent death of our nation.
I also feel extremely surprised when I see the politicians shamelessly taking favor of islam despite of its cruelties for centuries!
One thing I cannot understand is what makes these media people and politicians take favor of this cult just to show them as "Secular", even though they know that its a snake who will bite them as well at some point of time.
The mulsim rulers like tipu sultan, aurangzeb etc are even projected as heroes of India despite the fact they massacred millions of hindus, demolished thousand of temples.
The recent Assam violence is a burning example of the character of islam:
http://indiawires.com/12306/opinion/bangladeshi-i…
(I am not sure if you even know about it as our "Sickular" media and politicians have decided to be like a bird who puts his head in sand thinking that cat is not seeing it.)
I read your book Understanding MuHamMad partially and am able to imagine the character of islam and MuHamMad.
I would request you to write some dedicated articles on India addressing the general people, the "Sickular" media and Politicians so that they may wake up from sleep.
Regards,
Ganesh
Every human being knows what is good and bad, if each of us think of good thoughts and do good deeds daily, this world will have peace and prosperity. less sufferings. Why fight & KILL over RELIGION?
We should all give ideas of how to grow more food, conserve energy, don't pollute air & water. Be more productive in what ever we do.
Start today by greeting and be nice to our neighbours.
Mr Ali Sina has made me understand Islam more. THANK YOU MR. ALI SINA.