Masjid-ul-Aqsa: Muhammad’s Error

siddharth says:

You are right misbah , many of the puranas were adulterated . Though in parts some still have original texts , atleast that is my understandng.

Nasr says:

Islam is about submitting to One God (Elah Wahid as referred in Quran). The same One God worshiped by gentile prophet Noah and all Israelite prophets but CERTAINLY IS NOT the same God of Romans that belief in Triune Oneness God.

Mosque can just be a ground placed with a stone to mark its boundary. For mosque is referring to place of prayer (bow/postrate etc) The oldest mosque is in Mecca, where the second oldest mosque is in Jerusalem.

Was not surprised at an article that view God as a man. Of course the author will not agree at Mightiness of God permitting His Servant to ascend and in return in just one night . For the author believes God need become His own creation that is a man, and die on a cross to give salvation. And later wake again and go back to sky. 

Rajesh says:

(continued)… And as we have seen Dayananda Saraswati say earlier “Why does this verse inculcate faith in Mohammad along with that in God, when the Mohammadans profess to believe in none but God, and hold that none is worthy of sharing homage with Him ? Hence they can not call God Incomparable. If it be argued that this verse only teaches that people should have faith in Mohammad as a Prophet, we should kike to know where is the necessity of Mohammad (being regarded as a Prophet). If God cannot accomplish his desired object without making him His Prophet, he is certainly powerless.” (p. 672 of Dayananda Saraswati’s book Satyartha Prakash of 1875, English translation) “Now (the Mohammadan) God Himself has made Mohammad His partner (in Divine honours, etc.) and has Himself declared this fact in the Quran. God is so much attached to Mohammad that He has made him His partner even in paradise. It is useless to call the Mohammadan God Independent when He is dependent upon Mohammad for every little thing. Such things can never be found in a revealed book.”

Dayananda Saraswati continues “Now reader mark ! How clever Mohammad is ! He makes his God say in this verse that God will love those who follow Mohammad and even their sins will be forgiven. This shows that the heart of Mohammad was not pure. It appears that Mohammad (made or) had the Quran made in order to serve his selfish interests.” (p. 670)

“Now mark the prejudice of God and of His Prophet ! Mohammad like other men of his stamp, was well aware that if he did not stamp his religion with divine authority it would never flourish, nor would he or his followers be able to obtain help and power which might help them to live a life of ease and luxury. All this goes to show that Mohammad knew only too well how to compass his selfish ends and to deprive others of their due-a fact which proves that he was no well-wisher of humanity. Such a man can never command the trust and confidence of good and enlightened men.” (p. 674)

“Who but the Mohammedan God would be so unjust in fighting and helping others to do the same and so active in causing breaches of peace ? Now look at this religion, which sanctions wholesale robbery for the benefit of the Prophet ! Are these people any better than thugs ? God participates in the crime of robbery when he takes his share of the loot. He brings disgrace on Himself by favouring such dacoits. We are at a loss to understand whence came such a book, such a God and such a Prophet in order to disturb the happy relations between different nations of the world and thereby, inflict great suffering on them. Had not such faiths flourished in the world, all would have lived in peace with each other.” (p. 680-81)

As we have said, imagine us as the creator of the vast Pacific Ocean. The earth is like a drop of water in the ocean of all the oceans of the world. Then humans on earth are as insignificant as ants. Imagine some very very small viruses (so small that they are invisible) in a drop of water somewhere down the Pacific and if one of the viruses claims to other viruses that he is our Messenger and that we keep making it legal for that virus to dissolve his oaths, marry his foster son’s wife, legalize him to marry slave girls, loot etc!

Rajesh says:

http://www.islaminindia.org/uncategorized/was-all…
Belgium-based world famous scholar Dr Koenraad Elst has written in a chapter “How to deal with Islam” in his book “BJP vis-a-vis Hindu resurgence” (Voice of India, 1997): “This fact becomes more than obvious when one studies the context in which these revelations come to Muhammad. One finds that Allah never fails to confirm what his Prophet is planning to do in order to serve the latter’s cause in a particular situation. Aisha, the favorite wife of the prophet had seen through the game and summed up her observation reported by all orthodox traditionalists “Truly your God seems to have rushed in answering your prayers”. Dayananda Saraswati was not wrong when he characterized the Allah of the Quran as Muhammad’s domestic servant.”

However, here one sentence must be added. It is not easy for a Muslim (i.e. a Muhammadan) to bear much criticism of Muhammad (let alone see Muhammad for who he was). It is like telling a child that his father is a rapist, murderer and a thief. A child who adulates his father will not be able to accept it even if all the proofs in the world are shown to him. He will instead call you a liar, hate you for hurting him, curse you and may explode in anger and hit you physically. A Muslim will genuinely believe that Muhammad was the MOST PERFECT person, kind and compassionate, merciful. He will genuinely believe that Muhammad was a champion of women’s rights (even though the truth is exactly the opposite), that Muhammad stopped the practice of female infanticide, that Arabs used to quarrel with themselves and get drunk, Muhammad banned drinking of alcohol, united the people and improved their lives and showed them the true path to God, banned slavery and freed people (whereas the reality is exactly the opposite, Islam and Muhammad enslaved people). A Muslim would generally admire and respect Muhammad more than his own parents. To understand this matter, a Christian reader should imagine being told that Jesus was a rapist, murderer and a thief, or a Buddhist being told the same about Buddha, or a Dalit being told the same about Ambedkar. A Hindu should imagine being told the same about Chhatrapati Shivaji, Swami Vivekananda, Krishna, Rama etc. That is why Pakistan has the draconian Blasphemy Law (which gives death for insulting Muhammad). We saw recently how a Governor was shot dead by his own bodyguard for supporting scrapping of the Blasphemy Law and how the murderer was treated like a hero, that the judge who sentenced him to death had to flee Pakistan. The Danish cartoons on Muhammad in early 2006 also shook the whole world resulting in nearly 100 deaths worldwide. This shows how strong the spell of Muhammad is on Muslims.

Coming to Muhammad, there are so many cases which can be told as proof that Muhammad made up the verses to serve his own cause.

1) One day Muhammad visited one of his wives, Hafsah, the daughter of Omar. He saw Mariyah, Hafsah’s Coptic maid. He sent Hafsah out telling her that her father wanted to see her. When she went out, he called Mariyah and had sex with her in Hafsah’s bed. Hafsah found out that her father had not send for her and returned to find her illustrious husband, naked, between the legs of her maid. She screamed and started making a scandal. Muhammad tried to calm down his hysteric wife and promised her not to approach Mariyah again while pulling up his pants, and asked her to keep the incident, a secret. Hafsah informed Aisha who with a group of other co-wives confronted Muhammad. Then Muhammad claimed, God revealed Surah 66 Tahrim (‘Banning’) in which he “rebuked” Muhammad telling him:

Q.66: -5.
1. O Prophet! Why do you ban (for yourself) that which Allâh has made lawful to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
2. Allâh has already ordained for you (O men), the dissolution of your oaths. And Allâh is your Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.) and He is the All-Knower, the All-Wise.
3. And (remember) when the Prophet (SAW) disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives (Hafsah), so when she told it (to another i.e. ‘Aishah), and Allâh made it known to him, he informed part thereof and left a part. Then when he told her (Hafsah) thereof, she said: “Who told you this?” He said: “The All-Knower, the All-Aware (Allâh) has told me”.
4. If you two (wives of the Prophet SAW, namely ‘Aishah and Hafsah turn in repentance to Allâh, (it will be better for you), your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet SAW likes), but if you help one another against him (Muhammad SAW), then verily, Allâh is his Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.), and Jibrael (Gabriel), and the righteous among the believers, and furthermore, the angels are his helpers.
5. It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you, Muslims (who submit to Allâh), believers, obedient to Allâh, turning to Allâh in repentance, worshipping Allâh sincerely, fasting or emigrants (for Allâh’s sake), previously married and virgins.“ [Tarikh Tabari also see Bukhari3.43.648 ]

Rajesh says:

http://www.islaminindia.org/uncategorized/why-did…
Why didn’t God turn Muhammad into a scholar overnight and provide him with good stationery to record the Quran instead of relying on Muhammad’s supporters’ memory, many of whom got killed in the Battle of Riddahs (Apostasy) since AD October 632 and forcing them to write the Quran on palm leaves, stones and other such places? One basic question that will be asked is this- “Why did Allah choose Muhammad as a vehicle or medium to record the Quran when Allah knew that Muhammad was illiterate? Or at least, why did Allah not turn Muhammad into a great scholar overnight and provide him with good stationery to record the Quran?”

The Quran is what Muhammad dictated. In the translation of the Quran by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, (Pickthall’s translation is considered as very authentic) the following things are mentioned in the “Introduction” before the Quran’s first chapter: “All the surahs of the Koran had been recorded in writing before the Prophet’s death, and many Muslims had committed the whole Koran to memory. But the written surahs were dispersed among the people; and when, in a battle which took place during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr- that is to say, within two years of the Prophet’s death-a large number of those who knew the whole Koran by heart were killed, a collection of the whole Koran was made and put in writing. In the Caliphate of Othman, all existing copies of surahs were called in, and an authoritative version, based on Abu Bakr’s collection and the testimony of those who had the whole Koran by heart, was compiled exactly in the present form and order, which is regarded as traditional and as the arrangement of the Prophet himself, the Caliph Othman and his helpers being Comrades of the Prophet and the most devout students of the Revelation. The Koran has thus been very carefully preserved.” (Page xxviii of Pickthall’s translation of Quran, Madhur Sandesh Sangam, New Delhi, India, 1995)

Sadly for them, the information given in this translation by British Muslim Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall clearly proves exactly the opposite. Carefully read the sentences written in bold by us. “But written Surahs were dispersed among the people”. What is the guarantee that all Surahs were compiled and none were lost? Or that no extra Surahs were added which were not there? Arabic is a language where the whole meaning of the sentence can change with the slightest change in shape of the alphabet. In this translation of the Quran, Pickthall also admits “Within 2 years of the Prophet’s death a large number of people who knew the whole Koran by heart were killed”. Here he is talking of the Battle of Riddah (Apostasy) in Arabia in late 632- early 633 AD when Arabia rose in revolt against Islam and gallantly fought Muslims . In this battle, the Muslims would have surely lost and Arabia freed from Islam (and perhaps the whole world) had it not been for treachery from Muslims when the woman leading the Apostates (Salma) was killed treacherously, and seeing her dead the soldiers lost courage. Islam’s victories in India and in many other places were also largely due to treachery (Example, Muhammad Ghori defeated Prithviraj Chauhan in AD 1192 through treachery, after losing for the first time, in 1190-91 he was pardoned and allowed to go with the promise that he would not attack again, which he duly violated, and attacked Prithviraj at night and this is how Islam began its rule in India). But though the non-Muslims lost, a large number of Muslims were killed in this battle, many of whom had learnt the Quran by heart, which has been admitted by Pickthall. “In the Caliphate of Othman, all existing copies of surahs were called in, and an authoritative version, based on Abu Bakr’s collection and the testimony of those who had the whole Koran by heart, was compiled…” This shows that there were many different versions of the Quran in use by that time, during Othman’s rule (644-656 AD). Othman ordered all other versions to be destroyed. Now the very fact that within so few as 20 years of Muhammad’s death there were different versions of the Quran and there was no one to check or guarantee that Othman’s version was exactly as Muhammad said! That is, Othman had to do the job of compiling the Quran which should have ideally been done properly by Muhammad. If God sent Muhammad down to the people with His Message and his book if guidance viz the Quran would he have made it so difficult for the humans? He would have first made Muhammad a scholar capable of reading and writing overnight, being the Almighty and then provided Muhammad and all Muslims good stationery to record the Quran instead of relying on Muhammad’s companions to write on palm leaves, on shoulder-blade bones of camels and on stones and memorize it, and then have a large number of those who had memorized it killed in the Battle of Riddah….(Continued)

Demsci says:

Thanks for telling us this. So you moved away from fasiqin dhallin Muslims; those who criminally or unwittingly misused or misunderstood Islam. But what is zhalimness?

Any way;when there are 4 categories of humans; Good and Bad Muslims, Good and Bad Infidels, I take it that you will choose for Good Muslims and against Bad Infidels, but will you also choose Good infidels over Bad Muslims (these dhallin, fasiqin, zhalimining Muslims)?

I think you should. And that many "Mukmins' (Good Muslims?!) should. And help reform Islam and put "Mukmin's" in authority and separate from the bad Muslims, siding with the democratic infidels and their governments.

This is what Daniel Pipes hopes Muslims will do. This is what I hope somehow 17 million Egyptians showed, by opposing the Muslim Brotherhood-government of Morsi on 30 june. Also in Syria the FSA is now distancing itself from the Muslim Brotherhood-rebels of Al Nusra, ISIS.

narcole1919721 says:

Among 1000 people, there only 1 who is really mukmin. so making mukmin country seems a hard idea. such country is in heaven. The day when good people separated from bad people in akhirat.

narcole1919721 says:

I did tell its normal in ancient time. *rolls eyes*

Guest says:

@chuck,

Then you have to come back to the basic structure: Allah – the Prophet – the authority. We are supposed to follow the authority. If the authority, after due process of legal forming, declares slavery illegal, then it is illegal. And it becomes Islamic law that has to be upheld and enforced. This does not violate the Quran injunction. 

Regarding zakat, yes, one of the eight beneficiaries of zakat money is slaves so that they can be freed. I guess that includes non-Muslim slaves. I am presenting it to show that, despite the permissibility of having them, freeing slaves is encouraged in Islam since its early days.

Observing the way you form your opinion regarding slavery i.e. by quoting the Quran directly, may I add that the same methodology is being applied in many parts of the Islamic world where some people tend to issue fatwa through a short cut process. They just read the Quran and hadith but forget about the obligatory process of consultation (i.e. wa amru hum shuura baina hum) with those who are knowledgable about Islamic legal scholarship that has developed in the last 1400 years. This  kind of process leads to issuance of fatwa which is shallow and irrelevant to today’s life and, unavoidably, has created misunderstanding even among Muslims themselves.

Therefore, my suggestion to everyone who is interested in knowing more about Islam (myself included) is to go ahead read the Quran and then consult with Muslim scholars. These scholars are now increasingly becoming available in many learning centers in many parts of the world. A short cut process may not serve to increase proper understanding of the religion, but it surely can help fertilizing misunderstanding and enmity among people, Muslims and non-Muslims.

Sakat says:

@chuck
I am shocked to read her above post really,i wonder is it possible to brainwash to this extent ,awesome.It is beyond my conception.

Guest says:

@chuck,

//By the way, some of the Muslim majority countries are the very last countries which have formally made it illegal.//

You are right.

//It is not illegal in the Islamic sense, irrespective of a modern, humanist formalism. //

You are wrong. Muslims are supposed to follow Allah, the Prophet, and those who are in authority among you (wa uli al amr min kum). If the authority decides that slavery has become illegal, than it is also illegal from the Islamic law perspective.

//Are you suggesting that the Muslim countries which have made slavery illegal making foolof themselves? //

No, I am not suggesting that. I was refering to the guy who according to you //just give her a dollar and say she is your slave … in private//. This kind of guys are making fool of themselves.

//Thanks for suggesting that the Islamic law, which apparently is based on the counsel of Allah himself, is not so inviolable after all.//

Islamic law is being violated everyday. Muslims engage in corruption, in adultery, in cheating, etc. Law enforcement is not an easy thing, especially if we do not have the power and the tool to do it. Muslims are aware of these and don't pretend that they do not exist. FYI, Muslim countries are working among themselves and with non-Muslim countries to eradicate poverty which is considered to be the main cause of corruption.

Sakat says:

No wonder 'Hard truths are hardly told" those who are unable to digest them running from it ,i am not surprised at your post dude,bye too.

Sakat says:

Since your father is young at the age of 56 so you will consent him raping 6 year kid,oh!!! awesome thinking, weirdo.

Guest says:

@Demsci,

Increasingly Muslim women are joining the work force, and that requires them to leave home and be with other people (men and women) during the working hours. This leads to them establishing new friendships. There is no probibition for that. However, a married man going out with a married woman just to enjoy time being together is frowned upon. 

chuck says:

@Demsci,
//Noooooo. I joked that extra (more) marital sex (sex inside marriage) that THAT would increase happiness. //
Learnt your lesson? Don't ever joke with a 'guest'.

Demsci says:

I, as Darwinist, do believe in progress of mankind, albeit irregularly, in starts and fits, and in the overall big picture, and in many respects; especially in the last 200 years. Also in governmental system, leadership and in average character and morality of mankind and of course in longevity, health and wealth.

But you, do you believe Muslims progressed in 1400 years Islam? Did their governments, character, morality etc. improve or basically stay on the same level? Which is what you seem to think when you indicate when you mention a group of bad leaders, unwisely chosen or allowed to rule by Muslims. Were the present-day leaders no better or even worse than previous ones in your opinion? Or were they, despite everything, on average, better than previous ones? Or at least, are Islamic societies now better than in the past?

If you do not believe in some kind of progress of Muslims in 1400 years, can you realistically expect progress from Muslims in the 21st century or until judgment day? 

Demsci says:

I like people to be more free to have serial monogamy. And I also like to point out that it is most of the time unrealistic that 1 partner can satisfie all the needs of the other partner sufficiently all by him/ herself, while prohibiting a partner to find satisfaction in the company of someone else as augmenting the relation with the primary partner. But of course, I exclude sex from this augmenting a partnership with 1 human with friendships with other humans.

Is it not the case that in Islam especially women already are prohibited from even augmenting their partnership with their husband with friendships with other men, by talking to them and going out with them? Isn't Islam too fearful of adultery and far too restrictive in relations between married women and men, different from their partner?

Demsci says:

Noooooo. I joked that extra (more) marital sex (sex inside marriage) that THAT would increase happiness. I think no one disputes that.

The next time I wrote extra-marital sex, I wrote about sex outside of marriage.  Do you get it now, i did not say that THAT would increase happiness.

Sakat says:

Have you ever seen an ant having sex with a honey bee,even this could be beyond the thinking capacity of animals ,but human can have sex with any other animal ,there are term used for this, like bestiality,sodomy etc .,in that respect human is different from any other animal.He can have sex with 6 year old toddler when he is too old to have sex .This only human can do ,therefore we are not animal.At least they have there own morality,we are not ,we are prophets .

narcole1919721 says:

*yawns* i almost fell asleep in tarawih cos sleepy in front row. so i moved to the last row behind. But people misunderstood and thought i was going home, so many stood and went home just after seeing me moved. I moved not to go home, but to continue tarawih in comfier place. After some tafakur, i made conclution, since i was infront and the first who moved, people behind followed. My tafakur point is that, in this case, i was a leader. A leader who led followers in wrong way, i even made them misunderstand, i gave bad model, eventhough my intention was good. Using same analogy, about how to create better muslims, we need good, better, even best muslims as leaders, as good models for other muslims to follow. But see the fact now, most muslims leaders are fasiqin, munafiqin and dhallin right? See saddam, khadafi, morsi, arab kings and presidents. Most of them were chosen not bcos of their 3lm in religion, but only cos of money, heirs, military experiences, sweet tounges, etc. After prophet died, abu bakar was chosen as caliph cos of his 3lm, cos of his good deeds, and people trusted him. Ali didnt get enough vote at that time. If only votes for ali as many as shiite followers these days, then he could have been the first caliph. This showed democracy too in islam. In good way. Im against democracy which supports freedom in everything like animals. Humans have aqal. Animals dont have it. They just have nafsu. They do anything what they want. Why should we act like beasts? If you think you are animal, then dont wear clothes now, and live in forest. Have sex with anything you want, eat anything, kill anything, hurt anything. Follow your nafsu. But im sorry, im not animal, im not darwinist. Im a human, i have law, rules in life. The rules are made just like a mother holding her childs hand very tight when crossing the road, so that wont get hit, so that wont get hurt, so that wont regret. Like a mother who wants her child safe. If the mother let the child cross the road alone, and not prevent it, means she doesnt love her child. So you are the child who thinks of freedom, and careless about everyone, even yourself. you just wanna be free. thats all you know and you want.

Sakat says:

/Islam allows polygamy, but not incest. Islam allows divorce, but not incest./
Other belief only allows polygamy,there is no discretion in it,that is final.I can proudly say they are incest free ,but not with Islam ,your post itself is full proof of that .

Guest says:

@chuck,

In Islam, a woman can always go to the court of law and file for a divorce.

If a man is not satisfied with his wife, sexually or emotionally or for other reasons, he too can go to the court and file for divorce, and then he can marry another woman. In the old days, when slavery was still common the man could also approach his female slave, and it did not constitute adultery.

I don't have ready answers to your last two questions. It goes without saying that you can google them. 

Sakat says:

@chuck
On the spot !!!!,however he knew some one will come up like this ,so he disappears from his 'Guest appearance.',under such circumstances.

Guest says:

@Demsci, adultery is a form of dishonesty. It is cheating. It is extra-marital sex. I can safely say that in Islam it was, is and will continue to be forbidden and punishable. 

Sakat says:

'No, I am not.
Please do not assume what is true to you is true to others.'
My evaluation is based on nature,you cannot deny we are animal like other animals .A mother dog gives birth to many puppy's ,when they reach to puberty they do have sex with their own mother ,own sisters and brothers .Do you found making them doing distinction ,like my mother ,brother ,sister etc for not to have sex.Though you may openly say you are not like (your conscience mind) incest but unconsciously you too is an incest (because it is animal instinct after at work ,rubbing moral ointment on surface is not enough).I can say other people like westerners may not find meaning in the term 'incest' ,because they do it openly like other animal so their mind always be sound .But Muslims are follower of Mohammed and he was definitely an "incest" his all actions speaks it loudly ,since his follower emulates him they are equally incests.

Guest says:

That is OK Demsci. So, you like more sex inside marriage. So do Muslims.

And you said: //But it [i.e. more sex inside marriage] is against Islamic law, isn't it?//
My opinion is that more sex inside marriage is not against Islamic law. Did you find any reference to the contrary? Please share.

Demsci says:

@Sakat,

Yes, I completely agree, And I add that a Buddhist like you and a "Aarwinist" like me are natural allies.

Demsci says:

" you should admit that theres democracy too in islam"

The crucial point to me is: Can real full Democracy flourish under a supreme Islam, (or only under some interpretations of it)? And can Islam, (or only some interpretations of it?) flourish under real full Democracy? If the answer to both is yes, my problem with Islam would be solved.

Demsci says:

Narcole: "you have no knowledge about original islam. all you know are from untrusted sources."

But knowledge about original Islam is not our primary goal. That is protection of our societal system/ our people from, say, "Islamic supremacists". And yes, protection of religious minorities in Islamic countries, expansion of our societal system at the expense of Islam (this is called competition, and we want to do it only in a fair, free, democratic way, do Muslims want to do it only in a fair, free, democratic way?).

I again emphasize that it is so-called "Islamist" Muslims, in your mind perhaps the "Fasiq's or Dhal" Muslims, that interpret and practice Islam in harmful (or if you will in competitive) ways to our societal system and people. And we REPORT this!

So; if you are going to correct us Counterjihadists, make sure you also try to correct "Islamic supremacists".

If you can't do that, then make sure you side with fellow democrats against fellow Muslims who pose a threat to democratic societal system and people.

If you can't do THAT, at least admit that you won;'t do that and honourably warn the democratic people. 

Demsci says:

Narcole: "The reverse is for you, of course," Yes, we too think something like: "OMG, how come these Muslims do not know, poor them".

But both sides should also consider: "OMG, how come I and my side did not know this, poor us, let's learn, let's change if appropriate".

Demsci says:

Narcole.: "still offending All muslims?" No, and I never did this. So I ask you; Do you consider criticism on a part of Islam, or on a part of the behaviour of a part of Muslims, as something that

– is about ALL MUSLIMS?
– is offending?
– If so do you then consider that offending is always a bad, morally reprehensive, act?

Because such an attitude to me indicates that you like censorship and do not endorse full freedom of speech. Or to be more precise freedom of speech that some find offensive. But who is going to decide then, for all, what is or is not offensive? Such an attitude as you seem to have here can be turned against you.

I am all for freedom of so-called "offensive" speech (everybody is for freedom of nice, friendly speech). But I recognize some privacy-borders. But  on internet, in media, newspapers, magazines people have no right NOT TO BE OFFENDED, in my opinion.

Demsci says:

@Guest, sorry, with extra maritalsex I meant more (extra) sex inside marriage (=marital sex). 

I do not like extra-marital sex either, it is just my opinion that this should never be forbidden and punishable by law.

Yes, I remember Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton. I remember that at the time I thought it was outrageous to even investigate this, let alone prosecute this. As I thought Clinton had done no real illegal thing. But he had lied, yes, even under oath, OK. But still, I personally was appalled by and loathed those who made such a big spectacle out of this, and so damaged the American government so unnecessary, so unjustified.

narcole1919721 says:

We have shariah as law here. but sadly dhalin play shariah and the hakim. how many judges in this world got bribed and brainwashed? so again, as muslims, we have to attend majlis ta3lim to stop this. i always ask people to attend majlis ta3lim. But most are lazy, even sick of my nagging. but this is my jihad. jihad doesnt mean always with blood. seeking knowledge is jihad, not being beggar is jihad, being a teacher is jihad. and many more of jihad. education is important to stop wars. swords, guns and bombs are cruel, and last option only for defence. and god didnt create us for dropping each others blood. He gives us honor as khalifah on this earth to take care this earth with good living.

narcole1919721 says:

No, you should admit that theres democracy too in islam, but not as free as urs in zhalimness.

Guest says:

Narcole, what is "perve"?

Guest says:

//Muslims are accustomed to it ,it wont make difference to them//

This is a representation of yourself. No, Sakat, Muslims are not accustomed to incest. We condemn it. Muslims distinguish incest (which is illegal ) from non-incest sexual relationship (which is halal as long as it is done intra-marital).

Demsci says:

Narcole:
 "but i disagree with non moslems whose opinions against original quran, even without ever knowing original quran,"

But N, the situation is more complicated than that. Ali Sina, Robert Spencer and other counterjihadists very often and endlessly express opinions about tenets and laws of Islam, that are awkwardly similar to what, say "islamist", Muslims say, believe and practice.

It is just that the counterjihadists are against those tenets and laws of course and the "Islamists"  are in favor of them. But both counterjihadists and Islamists often believe and write exactly the same opinion on some tenets and laws of Islam.

For example about the deathpenalty for apostasy. Robert Spencer often quotes a number of Islam-apologists who say Islam does not have the deathpenalty for apostasy, of Islam (and Shabeer here also keeps copy-pasting this).

But then Spencer points out that all 4 schools of Sunni Islam; Shafi-Hanafi-Hanbali-Maliki are in favor of deathpenalty for apostasy. As well as large proportions of Muslims in various countries, be they Islamic or Democratic, which is seen in polls.

So, it just makes no sense that some Muslims only contradict Counterjihadists with courage. What is needed is somehow a real meaningful separation between "Islamists" and say, "Fully Democratic Muslims", who then side,  on important issues with other Democratic people against other Muslim people. And that means giving up on the worldwide Ummah. Are you prepared to do that? If not, what good are your  assurances to non-Muslims?

Or: "If you correct us, also correct your "fasiq"  Muslims, in a clear irrevocable way.

Demsci says:

Narcole;
//"If someone who thinks hes muslim by bothering other innocent non muslims, and the place for them to worship in peace, means that person is fasiq. and islam curses fasiq muslims for disobeying what original islam taught. how could you against islam who against fasiqin? you have a right to punish those fasiqin. "//

Interesting thoughts. If I would parafrase your words for showing you Democratic laws, then I would rewrite them something  like this: "If someone, no matter who (s)he is, commits crimes against innocent people, no matter who they are, it means that person is tried and if convicted is considered criminal". For acting against democratic law. How could anyone, any Muslim, be against a democratic law against crime? Democratic judges have a right to punish criminals, Muslims included.

I like to point out that here too the influence of Democratic laws on your mind is shown.

narcole1919721 says:

Absolute means hakikat…and quran is about oneness…*gives u flower*

narcole1919721 says:

Sakat..ur sleep talking….mm.

Sakat says:

How your Qur'an deals with the concept of "the Absolute" and "the Duality" let us begin with this (this is fundamental science ,every Hindu's as well a Buddhist know about this).

Sakat says:

Answer to your question lay's in my above post itself ,please read it once again.

narcole1919721 says:

Science and religion are one in holistic way. science is part of religion. science is 3lm, knowledge. religion too. so none in original quran contradicts science cos quran is science itself. if u find contradictions, tell me, ill show you its just translation errors.

Sakat says:

This is called psychology baby ,you may not understand ,acquiring knowledge about psychology is not enough ,you have to use it effectively .I know average mentality of your clown ,don't worry you may laugh but they will (visitors ) curse me and ,at the end i will laugh at you and them ha ha ha.

Sakat says:

Hell with your Islam ,i am a Buddhist and your cult had blasted bombs at my beloved Maha Bhodhy tree,that cannot be pardonable ,i wish could bomb both your ugly places of worship ,don't worry some body will do that in future.

narcole1919721 says:

Ciao, i gotta sholat n prepare iftar. hold ur comments. dont distract my focus, x.x i always think "omg how come these persons didnt know, poor them, i should tell them" after reading ur comments while doing tasks 😮

narcole1919721 says:

You only make other muslims laugh at you when reading this, sakat. you know very little about fadhilah from these 3amal, once you find out yourself ull embrace islam no matter what ignorants say. I forgive you sakat, cos you didnt know yet.

narcole1919721 says:

All ur accusations are fitnah we already know about. no matter how hard you try ull only embarrass urself with ur ignorance. people who know just can laugh. dont embarrass urself more. you have no knowledge about original islam. all you know are from untrusted sources.  i even doubt you have source.

narcole1919721 says:

Die first, sakat. Ull meet izrail and see the proof.

narcole1919721 says:

I asked why, and you should explain it in original arabic quran. If ur unable, means u talk fitnah.  nobody likes fitnah in this world, not even you. How would you feel if i fitnah ur wife zina and ur kid is haram jadah from ilegal sex with neighbor?

narcole1919721 says:

Everybody can write and publish what he wants. Like islamic banks and conventional banks. Conventional banking is haram or forbidden in islam. but do we force close the banks? its clearly told that its clear the diference between good and bad. It depends on the person to chose what he wants for himself as individual. if those sections wanna do what they like, let them, as long as not disturb or hurt others.

Sakat says:

We know you all Muslims are living in fools paradise and we are least bothered about you and your cult Islam ,provided you live peacefully with co-inhabitants of this planet ,however you are not doing that ,our research took us to Quarn for all this violence of Muslims .We are living our life on facts and research and our messiah,s preachings so ,we don't believe any tall claim of hell and heaven of any musketeer , he has to come with proof first.When human started reasoning and questioning he has reached this modern era.See how you people are out dated ,this is because your cult is primitive applicable only to stone age people.

narcole1919721 says:

In the very beginning of quran, its already told about those who believe in ghaib which eyes cant see.  our eyes are limitted. dogs eyes are designed to be able to see evils, chicken cocks eyes are designed to see light of angels. elephants and dolphins also have designed waves which human cant see nor sense. the concrete proofs you want to see is only by experiencing death first. once you experience it, theres no way back for repent. the door is closed.

narcole1919721 says:

Its you the liar. cos its you who said he saw god. he decided to die cos he wanted to see god after he passes alam barzakh. this dunia is tests for humans and jins for those who believe in ghaib. those who use aqal. those who have intelligence. those who read. those who do good and those who think good.

narcole1919721 says:

Are u confused about simple terms, then how could you attack arabic quran without knowing its terms? dajjal translations and intrepretations always have flaws. so if u curse them i wont blame you. just dont name it quran or what prophet brought. cos its only ORIGINAL in arabic. keep making up stuff with english and other languages from editors. Alquran will always be original cos its one language and cant be EDITED. Even sholat is still and always in one original language. So argueing about quran with persons who dont even understand its own one original fus7a is useless.

narcole1919721 says:

 Prophet Muhammad shollallahu 3alaihi wasallam went to mi3raj, not to see god. He was invited to travel heaven, hell and the secrets. He also went there to receive wahyu of sholat, but also to meet prophets and take their advice. And he went to masjidil aqsa cos it was the first qiblat for sholat before ka2bah. And gate of heaven isnt only there. Raudhah is also gate of heaven, zamzam well also gate of heaven, mukmins grave also gate of heaven. You should learn more about asbabun nuzul in kitab. Why keep asking why this and that? Cant you see real 3ulama still calm? Why? Cos they know the answers already, cos they read real kitabs. And they dont care about fame by telling that they are prominent scholars. If you wanna know where is god read kitab about ruh by sheikh naem as saufi. Its very clear explanation. About the existance of masjidil aqsa, lol then how could moslems and hanif followers pray before if not know where masjidil aqsa. They all knew already where prophet solomon resided. Why asking silly questions which people knew the answers already and show ur lack of reading? Its not hard for prophet Muhammad shollallahu 3alaihi wa sallam to know where, even if its destructed. He even knew the tomb of moses near mecca. Where none of jews and christians could find. And you only quoted yusuf alis intrepretation, and didnt mention according to "which muslims" about the year. And which muslims who were alive at that time who directly said that. How could you put some year which you even werent born there at that time? What have you learned in persia, sir? 

narcole1919721 says:

Sigh. where all these questions come from? mr Ali. come to my place. ill bring you to my sheikhs. they are old, some died already. sign of qiyamat is the death of 3ulama with their 3lm. ur old too, use time left to meet them as long as you all still have time. i understand how you got misled this far. you never read authentic kitabs and u never met real sheikhs. i wanna answer all ur questions here, they are very simple. but ur followers hacked me and make my typing slow as slug. typing one letter even so long. sly, isnt it? 

azad says:

the Quraan will never lie for all those idol worshipers you will see Allah's anger in this world and the hereafter for blasphemy Ameen.

@zippelius says:

Diphthong "wa" at the opening ayah Q17:2 tells us that the person mentioned in the verse is the same person addressed in the earlier verse. This is a fact that Ibn Kathir overlooked when he cooked up the justifications for Isra' Mikraj.

Throughout al Qur'an, verses on the so called "Night Journey" are always associated with story of Moses.
2:51
Yet, when we summoned Moses for forty nights, you worshiped the calf in his absence, and turned wicked.

7:142
We summoned Moses for thirty nights, and completed them by adding ten. Thus, the audience with his Lord lasted forty nights,. Moses said to his brother Aaron, "Stay here with my people, maintain righteousness, and do not follow the ways of the corruptors."

One has only to read Q20:9-16 to get the gist of the story.
20:9
Have you noted the history of Moses?

20.10
When he saw a fire, he said to his family, "Stay here. I have seen a fire. Maybe I can bring you some of it, or find some guidance at the fire."

Sorry, there's no evidence as far as al Qur'an is concerned, to the story of Mohammed performing the Night Journey and flying on Buraq to the heaven. It's simply another form of syncretism influenced by Greek/Persian mythologies.

Regards,
Zaki

SorrowSnake says:

Q17.1 does talk about Muhammad, Ibn Kathir writes:

"(1. Glorified be He Who took His servant for a Journey by Night from Al-Masjid Al-Haram to Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa, the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him of Our Ayat. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.)

Allah glorifies Himself, for His ability to do that which none but He can do, for there is no God but He and no Lord besides Him.

﴿الَّذِى أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ﴾

(Who took His servant for a Journey) refers to Muhammad" http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_conte…

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Raks says:

Allah is notin but satan according to Bible,some quotes from Bible…
i ask all ppl to go through walid shoebat's prophecy videos in youtube where he has
explained in detail.

some verses from Bible.

John 8:58-59 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

1 John 5:7-7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.

Isaiah 46:9-11 "Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.10 I make known the end from the beginning,from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.11 From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.

Psalm 83:4-7 They have said Come and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance For they have consulted

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

John 16:2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God.

Sanada_10 says:

And no proof, just the word "possible".

Sanada_10 says:

Provide the historical fact about Kaaba, not the belief.

John K says:

Too much spam.

a person says:

Mr. Ananda,

I have the earnest desire to appreciate your comment. However, it is very unfortunate for me that I cant do this simply of the point that your comment has shown either your utter disregard of what are the teachings of Islam or your ostensibly lack of knowledge on this score. Whatever the case may be, I would like to let you know that you have got know about the basic tenets of Islam to great extent.

You might be right to some extent as to whether the last prophet incorporated some of the pagan ideas. The so-called pagans , you must know, were not pagans for eternity. In fact, they were the descandents of Ibrahim, who propounded the ideology of monotheism in Arab. And what you also must know that those arabs though were the successor of Ibrahim were deviated and indulged themselves in idolatry forsaking and forgetting the true teachings of the sages.Muhammad (SW) simply took them to their root – the basic belief of humanity.

It seems that you are an indian origin. If you are, I would like you to study the 30 basic teachings of Vedas…

Ignorance is a curse.

Thanks.

Arya Anand says:

"… Muhammad used to pray in Kaba…"

Muhammad used to sacrifice animal to the idol of Uzza one of the daughters of Allah the Arab pagan deity. Islamic rituals are nothing but Arab pagan rituals. Muhammad gave a monotheistic twist to such pagan rituals and called it Islam his religion of submission.

a person says:

___"This hadith presents yet another problem. According to Muslims, Masjid’ul Haram (Ka’ba) was built by Abraham who lived in 2000 BC and the Temple of Solomon (the site of the Msjid ul’Aqsa) was built about 958-951 BC. There is a gap of over 1040 years between the dates of the construction of the two buildings."____Now at first glance, this argument might seem a very intriguing one. Howvever, if we ask him about the dates he's mentioned what would be his answer. The quranic and hadiths supposed dates should not be convoluted with that of Bible. If anyone does that this wont be taken as granted.

a person says:

_Ali Sina also fails to take into account that why Muhammad(SW) chose that mosque in stead of other places of worship. The thing which can easily be understood that the temple was built of a prophet which renders it a great respect and in comparison to other places it is regarded highly

Sanada_10 says:

By the way, auntie. Have you read Q 3:7? I know you avoided it again.

Sanada_10 says:

You wrote, “is the only thing that can lead one to sensing God's existence”

For your own record, Islamic monotheism came from reference, not from sensing god’s existence. Where did Umar get this? It’s from reference. Who? It’s from Muhammad. Where did Muhammad get that? It’s from reference too. Which one? It’s from older religions. Sensing god is like sensing other gods and myths. Put other names in there and you’ll get the same result.

You are not sensing anything about god. You are assuming god’s existence using your human’s limited nature and Islamic mindset (this too is already explained in indo site).

You wrote, “Here is a question for you to answer using your ability to do much reading”

A question? From you who don’t answer anything? Well, I’ll be damned. The earth must be flat right now.

You wrote, “After 14 centuries, have you seen anyone with an abundance of references dare to meet this very simple challenge?”

You can look anywhere and you’ll find Islamic critics from 7th century until now. One thing doesn’t change though. Muhammad and his followers loved/love to kill the critics.

Dude, to know the fakeness of Islam is easy and not even a challenge. Start to think logically and objectively. You didn’t dare to discuss the issue and started this irrelevant rant.

Here’s my counter challenge:

1. Have you seen someone with references who can prove that Muhammad is a prophet logically?
2. Have you seen someone with references who can disprove Sina?
3. Have you seen someone with references who can do my challenge on Islamic pseudoscience?
4. Can you even refute my argument and reference?

Come on auntie, let’s play truth and dare.

You wrote, “To make just one verse like those in the Quran.”

Hah? Read it, kid. It’s everywhere already if you even bother to read. Google it and you’ll find plenty.

I don’t think making verses in Quran is a challenge, unless you think that a god who was making many mistakes and scientific blunders needed to be challenged.

“Who can make mistake like this?”, It’s funny, isn’t it?

You wrote, “For your info, this is one of the challenges from Allah for those in doubt about it.”

I’ve known that from 3 years ago. You are too late, auntie. Don’t divert the issue will you? Everyone will see that you are a coward.

Sanada_10 says:

Relax auntie. I am not you, remember? Also my points still remains unchallenged.

Dude, you still don’t get it? Still want to divert the issue here? Still cherry picking your opponent’s argument? Still adding irrelevant topic, eh?

The OOT keeps building up when talking to you. Do you even know why you can’t convince anyone here, including “you know who”? It’s because you don’t have reference at all. You only use your feeling.

For example, you responded “satanic angel” in bible with nothing, just a personal belief which doesn’t even have any reference. For your information:

Info 1: Satan can disguise himself as angel in the Bible
Info 2: Satan can only manipulate information in the Bible. He has no power at all
Info 3: Muhammad was acting like a possessed man when divinely inspired and the angel was very rough when the first time they met.
Info 4: In the Bible, no prophet had that kind of “possession”, not even one.

What will you get from all of these?

You wrote, “Miss, you are talking as if – with your brain – you knew anything about everything. If you want people to think that you are a smart dude, then you are on the right path. Keep it up. But to us, what you are doing is what we call the act of idolizing one's mind.”

Auntie, careful when typing something coz you have made one more mistake. We are talking about Islam here, not everything so the correct words will be:

“You act like you know everything about Islam” and I’ll reply, “Yes, I do”.

I never said that I am all smart and never intend to make that impression, but if you feel that way then it’s just your slow brain that did the opinion, like Einstein’s relativity right? I am just a normal guy but when compared to a retarded auntie like you, of course I’ll become smart. Any informed person can become smart when discussing Islam with you. With my objective brain, I know Islam is proven to be false and I know too that you don’t dare to discuss that part. This is what I call “envy”. Why? It’s because you feel inferior when facing me.

Idol? No, I am not idolizing one’s mind, I am “idolizing” fact and that’s called objectivity.

You wrote, “You don't even know at what exact time you will have to go to the bath room the next morning to waste something you are now digesting, yet you consider your self smart and qualified enough to judge Allah and Rasulullah.”

Irrelevant answer fueled by an offended feeling of a narcissist who fails to answer anything. Don’t worry, I’ve seen this. True, I don’t know the future but so did Muhammad/Allah. And when I found out that Muhammad was a liar, everything is easy, kid.

Fact is fact and knowing/not knowing the future won’t change a fact. Man, you are so stupid.

You wrote, “You argued that for us to observe is to be the slaves of Allah.”

Of course, it’s because Islam means submission and your primary duty is to worship Allah alone. You yourself had said that this world (a drop of water) is nothing compared to the hereafter (an ocean). Ah, having amnesia, aren’t you?

Knowledge or science is worldly and has nothing to do with hereafter.

You wrote, “What is so wrong with a status of being an Allah's slave especially when I look around I see people and all other creatures are practically living in His Grace and Mercy?’

Auntie, I was not discussing that part, remember? The topic is about the “observation” order and the correct one is “slave of allah” not “science”. I see that you don’t mind so I’m right again.

Oh, playing assumption, aren’t we? When I look around I see that Allah is not god and Muhammad is false prophet. Or you can put any god as subject and you’ll get the same result. What’s wrong with “slave of allah”? A lot, kid but we are not talking about that specific topic, aren’t we? You are a naughty OOT auntie.

Sanada_10 says:

Dude, all I know is your stupidity and this is proven again through your irrelevant answer.

Auntie Ihsan, you are surely very clueless. Why you are clueless, it’s because you don’t read, you only see and reply what you want to reply.

You misunderstand almost everything, be it Quran, hadith, and my posts:

1. Promotion is mistaken as “asking back up” (I’ve explained it) => relevant with Miraj
2. Logical argument is mistaken as Hindu/Christian argument => relevant with Miraj
3. Myth (impossible) is mistaken as science (possible) and ignoring other myths => It is Miraj
4. Vedic science is mistaken as Purana’s and the topic is mistaken too => relevant with Miraj

And that’s only in this very page. There are plenty more in other pages, ex: Thief parable, ops.

You refused to read that:

1. No Miraj or physical journey in Quran
2. Buraq means lightning not laser, and lightning has been used as a symbol since ancient ages
3. Other religions have “science” too
4. Quran has committed scientific blunder about universe.
5. My evidence in indo version stays untouched.

It’s like teaching a kid here, a stubborn and lazy one. You have to repeat again and again because the kid refuses to understand anything outside his mind. Have you ever talked about these 5 points? No, you only repeat your own refuted posts and ignore the rest.

This is fact whether you like it or not,

Allah swt never ever uttered the word ‘buraq’. Give the credit where the credit is due.

But, is monologue fan going to read all of these? No, the auntie of the market will keep misunderstanding and cherry picking these vegetables. I am looking forward to reveal your future blunders and that’s definitely will happen, mark my words. Don’t forget the exchange, bibi Ihsan

PS: Feeling is not reference, do some thinking will you?

Challenge? To mass murderer and assassin like Muhammad? Where is your common sense, auntie? (I expect a reading problem again)

Sanada_10 says:

Pseudoscience exists in almost all religions and you are evading that, kid.

Sanada_10 says:

Got it, auntie? Man, you are so stupid but proud, you replied but you didn’t get my point at all. My past words are proven again and again. Which one? Here:

1. “Orang aneh menganggap orang lain juga aneh, orang gila menganggap orang lain juga gila.”

2. “Nanti kalau gue bersugesti sebaliknya, anda bakal protes lagi. Kan sugesti bisa dilawan dengan sugesti”

3. “Ini sih bukan bodoh lagi, tapi terbelakang”

4. “tak bisa membalas yang besar lalu berkonsentrasi penuh pada yang kecil, seolah-olah yang kecil bisa menghapus yang besar. Semakin terdesak semakin banyak kesalahannya.”

PS: It’s not my fault that you are so stupid, it’s the religion, Islam.

You wrote, “I don’t understand why you said that you’re not”

That’s just your slow brain, heck, you couldn’t even understand simple thing like “Jewish company”. If you ever bother to take time and understand my words, you wouldn’t say this. Don’t get trap with “parable” and “argument”, this is the playground for grown up, kid.

Question for you: Do you feel the urgency to reply? If yes, then you are short minded, if no, then you are retarded. I feel that the second is more accurate judging from your replies all this long.

You wrote, “Anyhow, who cares about your religion? I don’t. Do you?”

True, I don’t care about religion except religion that creates violence like Islam. If you didn’t care you wouldn’t even cherry pick and say this part. Oh, I see you care about your own brain capacity, that’s why you asked this to me. This is what I call “envy”.

Logic lesson:

There are 5 topics, A chose only 1 out of 5 and concentrated on that only. Then A said, “I don’t care about it”.

You wrote, “Of course it’s legal for you to have faith in that made-up satan-related story”

If that’s a made up, Islam is a made up too. It’s legal and reasonable to say that Muhammad is a devilish prophet like in Hindu scripture, ops.

You wrote, “You are free to believe as you are free not to believe it”

Touche, but Islam is not about that.

You wrote, “What I do believe is that satan has no capability to look like Rasulullah.”

No, I was talking about Jibril, not Muhammad. Satan can appear as an angel of light in the bible and Muhammad was his victim and victimizer. I know this dream thingy. This is from Bukhari, right? Come one, circular logic from hadith is not going to help you.

You wrote, “For more, Rasulullah Muhammad himself would have said big NO to a satan appearing like an illusory angel asking him to agree that Allah has a son.”

Circular logic, of course the thief would not admit his own deed. The prison would be full of them if they started to admit.

Note: There is no angel telling that in Quran or hadith. Check mate again, kid.

Sanada_10 says:

You wrote, “Observation is proven to be the very basic natural way by which modern sciences have been and will always be revealed”

Sure, that’s natural and has nothing to do with god’s order. Does god order you to eat?

You wrote, “These days, still through observations, certain scientists have tested the Quran against the latest technologies.”

No one test it. If you have a credible source, then you can present it. Talking is easy. Who are “certain scientists” here?

You wrote, “Some have confirmed its authenticity while some haven’t”

This is dubious statement. Citation needed

You wrote, “There is of course nothing wrong with it as technology keeps advancing.”

There is a lot of wrong in it.

You wrote, “There is still so much to be revealed in that we all call mystery.”

Yoi, it’s revealing the blunder of Quran. One thing for sure, Buraq is not one of them.

You wrote, “By this I mean to say that this most amazing miraculous journey called Miraj is actually still wide open for further observations and scientific studies by all mankind”

No, it’s not. I’ve given you the proof including Quranic reference. Have you read Arda Viraf? I know you haven’t coz you love to ignore everything that don’t conform your mind, even Quran itself. Pseudoscience has no place in real science.

You wrote, “Allah permits that even if the observers happen to be disbelievers.”

Citation needed. Explaining the obvious is not a merit but common sense, ex: Egypt and Persia. I know you will misinterpret this again. Come one, I deliberately do it this time.

You wrote, “However, some faithless people living by these modern technologies are still easily convinced to hastily conclude this highly scientific event as fairytale.”

And some faithful people are so easy to believe fairy tale such as dragon, vampire, monster, angel, buraq, etc. Dude, it is a fairy tale and scientifically impossible. Many people have shown you that but you didn’t dare to read. Read the evidence, kid, read.

Fact 1: Changing “lightning” into “laser” is not scientific but a big lie.
Fact 2: Putting Buraq into allah swt’s mouth is also big lie.

You wrote, “Most people living in the 7th century might have simply thought so, but not today’s scientists.”

Today scientists never believe nonsense in Quran. Are you even aware of this?

Note: Allah swt didn’t care about it, he was just angry at these ignorant people. This is what will happen when the ignorant tries to each another ignorant.

You wrote, “You wrote too long, but I was aware that you said”

Incorrect, I wrote long but relevant post and you cherry picked the safest words from it. Worse of it, you again and again misinterpreted it. So this is the correct words:

You wrote the detail from my mistakes and I will only answer things that I can answer, the things that I can’t, I won’t answer it.

Understand, auntie? Change “too long” to “proportional” and “aware” to “afraid and confused”.

Sanada_10 says:

Dude, can you at least answer anything here?

You wrote, “Then, there was this girl I’ve been talking to who brought up these scriptures”

Oh, the envy, I can feel it. Auntie, you aren’t discussing anything, you ignore everything. Your illogical statement never stops, does it?

Fact 1: I had demolished your Miraj
Fact 2: You didn’t do anything about Hindu science (from Veda) and Bhavishya Purana is irrelevant answer, it’s a different topic, different logic and different source
Fact 3: Your Bhavishya Purana is fake
Fact 4: After knowing it, you’re evading it. What happen if you don’t know it? You’ll keep messing with it. Why? Clue: Your double posts about it, one in here and another in indo site.
Fact 5: In muslim mindset, not answering equals to answering.

Now, what do we “get” from all of “these”?

Answer 1: Hindu science is correct
Answer 2: Muhammad is a devil
Answer 3: Islamic science is wrong.

You wrote, “I modestly replied to let her see that the scriptures seem to mention Rasulullah Muhammad’s prophecy.”

An illogical and irrelevant reply which is proven to be a devil according to Hindu belief but alas you didn’t dare to read. As I recall, your modesty is limited, am I right? Dude, I’ve seen that.

You wrote, “Personally, I certainly have no clue whether or not Hindu’s teachings was once Islam”

The reverse would be more logical.

You wrote, “But the fact is a few Moslems start to believe that the two religions originated from the same God especially when such a belief is based on certain Hindu’s scriptures about the descriptions of kalky avatar which nowadays are somewhat related to Rasulullah”

Yeah, if everyone is simple minded like you. Go look the difference between Kalki and Muhammad. Monologue fan like you never want to hear the truth.

You wrote, “For everyone, this may or may not be true.”

It is not true. There is no “maybe” in it.

You wrote, “The way I see it, this issue is still open for discussions the way Miraj is open for further scientific studies.”

That would be “true” as long as you ignore all of your opponent’s arguments and all evidences presented to you.

Note: Islam has been proven false with science. You are talking about hadith, a man made book which is similarly false.

You wrote, “What I do believe is Muhammad is His Messenger”

I do know that he is not. Knowing is fact, believing is faith.

You wrote, “And what I understand is that Allah says that the ‘expert readers’ of His Other Holy books would recognize Rasulullah Muhammad like they recognize their own son. “

This is illogical and narcissistic.

You wrote, “I just want to think that the prophecy of the prophet must be clearly written to them. “

There is no Muhammad in Hindu scriptures or in Bible. You only see what you want to see, like a kid.

One more: Look at what Misbah had recently said,

“But when u try to figure out where and when that part of bhavishya purana was born, then u will end up with a big laughter.”

And compare it with my older post to you,

“Give me each translation from each book first, including the source, the word by word explanation, the context, and the DATE when it was made”

Dude, you are pathetic, a big laughter indeed.

Abdullah ihsan says:

@ sanada

Wrong.

Your statement would sound better if you had quoted :" Common people love to lie." The adjective is common, miss. They could any person in any ethnic, in any religion, any nation.

Sanada_10 says:

In other words, muslim loves to lie.

Sanada_10 says:

Kalki thingy has been refuted if you even bother to read something.

Abdullah ihsan says:

@ sanada

You are right; it's not possible to do that. In modern societies like today’s, whether they realize it or not, people are applying what the Quran repeatedly suggests them on how to dig up technologies, which is by observing all of His creations. All famous scientists be it Islamic and other scholars in the past or those living today have practically done that.

Observation is proven to be the very basic natural way by which modern sciences have been and will always be revealed. These days, still through observations, certain scientists have tested the Quran against the latest technologies. Some have confirmed its authenticity while some haven’t. There is of course nothing wrong with it as technology keeps advancing. There is still so much to be revealed in that we all call mystery.

By this I mean to say that this most amazing miraculous journey called Miraj is actually still wide open for further observations and scientific studies by all mankind. Allah permits that even if the observers happen to be disbelievers. However, some faithless people living by these modern technologies are still easily convinced to hastily conclude this highly scientific event as fairytale. Most people living in the 7th century might have simply thought so, but not today’s scientists.

You wrote too long, but I was aware that you said:

“How about from now on, I’ll have faith that Muhammad is a true prophet from the great Satan. This is legal too, right? You know that satan only have information and can appear as an angel, don’t you? Check mate, kid.”

Ha ha miss, a Christian friend of mine once mentioned this to me. The difference between you and my friend is that he brought up this issue in a gentle manner making me more than happy to respond to him. By you saying this very same thing I see that you too are a Christian, but I don’t understand why you said that you’re not. Anyhow, who cares about your religion? I don’t. Do you?

Of course it’s legal for you to have faith in that made-up satan-related story. You are free to believe as you are free not to believe it. What I do believe is that satan has no capability to look like Rasulullah. For more, Rasulullah Muhammad himself would have said big NO to a satan appearing like an illusory angel asking him to agree that Allah has a son.

I know that this information is placed in the hearts of all missionaries to refute Muhammad’s prophecy. That is how they have been trained to defend their beliefs as they’ve seen no other successful way of doing so except maybe by donating to very poor Moslems when rich Moslems don’t do reversely. You too have the right to say whatever you wish about this highly honored man, but the messages he brought to human race remains: Observe….. keep observing. And man will find out how nothing they are in His Mightiness and Knowledge. Then, shouldn’t we all just bow down to Him?

Sanada_10 says:

He's already done that but you refused to see. No, it is not possible to do that.

Sanada_10 says:

You wrote, “Like you have imitated, sina claimed the impossibility of a travel of billions of light years to be done just over night”

Yup, if he accepted that then why not accept other impossibilities in other religions and folklores? You have to be fair, Mr. One Perspective. If you want to be a skeptic at least show some balanced thinking. You are clearly forcing your belief to others, just like your prophet.

It’s simple dude, as long as allah swt continues to make blunder after blunder about universe, this Buraq’s case is of course fake. Ah, I forgot, allah swt never mentioned any Buraq, silly me.

You wrote, “Any one without faith will”

That’s obvious, kid. Faith means believing without evidence. Like allah swt is a devil, that’s faith too. Jesus is god, that’s faith. God is one, that’s faith. God is many, that’s faith. Allah swt is angry, that’s human. Muhammad is false prophet, that’s fact. You are stupid, that’s fact. It’s easy to play like you. Wait, I’ve done this to you and yet you repeated it. Oh dear, oh dear, there is no end to your stupidity.

How about from now on, I’ll have faith that Muhammad is a true prophet from the great Satan. This is legal too, right? You know that satan only have information and can appear as an angel, don’t you? Check mate, kid.

You wrote, “Aside from the confirmed command for Shalat, the messages might have also implied an upcoming foremost sophisticated outer space technology which at present time proves to become harder to deny. Not to mention its potential progress ahead. It is just one of the countless technologies of Allah which surely surpasses that of human race yet is still possible to be scientifically observed, and perhaps, to a much lesser degree, can be applied by man sometime in the future.”

Take it easy dude. You are talking way out of your league. Allah swt will be confused reading it. Here, a faith game:

1. allah swt is true => other gods are true too => still muslim is so stupid because they fail to find this => kafir is so clever because they don’t need allah swt to find it => I don’t like stupid people => Nah, I’ll prefer other religion.

2. allah swt is wrong => that will explain everything.

Don’t think too hard, dude because Allah swt never does. I’ll close it with this verse:

Q 3:7. He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental [of established meaning]; they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

Unlike you, I know allah swt.

Sanada_10 says:

Come on, this is all you got? I thought you want to answer me or something. Man, you are so clueless, aren’t you? I have put the “?” mark and you didn’t realize it. Sigh, stupid people love to play smart.

You wrote, “Look, you are asking for some sort of back up just because you want to counter my fad writings about Miraj.”

Oh, mind reading wannabe, great. Judging from your style of writing, I already knew you have only one perspective, so this doesn’t surprise me. Let me get this straight:

Fact 1: I have countered your post about laser
Fact 2: You didn’t counter back but coming here just to protest
Fact 3: You love to change the meaning of everything, be it Quran, Hadith, or even my post.
Fact 4: This site contains old Islamic pseudoscience, it’s boring since it already exists everywhere and proven to be false.
Fact 5: There is no Miraj in Quran and allah swt never uttered the word “Al Buraq”..
Fact 6: Ignorant people are overwhelming informed people and this topic is needed to be known since the other side will keep preaching it to the gullible masses and they are not bright. It even enters Youtube which most people visit.
Fact 7: The logic of a man, who emotionally calls me “woman”, is clear for any rational person to see what kind of intellect you have.
Fact 8: Your behavior of leaving discussion when beaten too much makes me think that you are an easy foe, no help is needed.
Fact 9: People who don’t have confidence don’t answer anything. Who is that exactly?
Fact 10: There are so many unanswered points from various topics that you owe me.
Fact 11: When you play fair you’ll find plenty of “science” in other religions.
Fact 12: You love to play monologue. You ignore opponent’s answer and argument thus making you to repeat the old refuted argument of yours. Kids love to do these.

From all of these facts, no one needs help when dealing with you. Don’t put your attention only to yourself, Mr. Narcissist.

Fad writing you said? That’s true, your writing is just a prank, nonsense, and crazy to logical people, in fact, all science in Islam are like that. That’s why it never shows up on Indonesian national TVs unlike FFI.org, but what about gullible masses? How about their intelligence, their knowledge, or their tendency to fall on this trickery? How about some “serious” debates about it? Like Campbell and Naik did on prank like this. Not to mention the presence of social sites like twitter or facebook which prank can be dangerous and destroy someone’s name. Never underestimate falsehood since it has been proven to mislead billions and unlike you, I think with broader perspective.

Done studying? How about you start to answer my posts about laser?

You wrote, “Why? You don’t sound as confident here as you did on the Indonesian’s site. What’s happened? getting a little shaky about your faith maybe? It’s only me who debated you, not an Islamic scholar.”

Dude, which part indicates that I wasn’t confident? Was it the part when I showed your blatant lie? Or was it the part when you didn’t have any answer? The thought of winning is always in your mind, isn’t it? Yes, it’s only you who debated me. That’s why it’s so easy. Islamic scholar? Nope, the difference is not too big. None of you can prove anything actually. Maybe I should convert to Hinduism, what do you think?

This makes me think that it is you who doesn’t have confident. Why?

Fact 1: You protested multiple times on Sina but always indirectly and only in Indo version.
Fact 2: Instead of answering my points on Indo version, you chose to come here and misinterpreted my posts like you did on Buraq.

What’s the matter? Afraid?

You wrote, “Don’t worry too much about my comments, ms sanada. Let sina read them for him self (maybe with a help from his translator) and have him learn a little Bahasa, ha ha”

Hmm, I don’t worry about you (obvious) but I’m worried about the level of gullible masses. Muslims are known to have low intelligence because of Islam, you know.

Sina? Maybe he isn’t interested with laser since “the jump” is too crazy, even beginner like Just Dan can see your level. In fact, he has surpassed you just in few days. Let’s say he’s leveling up but you stay the same. What I want is something new, not just repeating old articles and Sina has the habit of putting old materials in here. I’m bored.

Knowing bahasa will do him very little since this language doesn’t have high value on international level. Translator will suffice, Auntie Ihsan. Ehm, can you buy me vegetables? I know you love to shop in market and cherry picking it. This is proven unlike yours.

Are you laughing? About what? Bahasa? Sadly, that’s true.

Sanada_10 says:

Great, another mind reading wannabe, let’s see:

First of what? 10 to 5?

Off topic? Since when do you keep staying on one topic only? Remember “Jewish company”? Remember your difficulty on grasping my sentences?

Dude, you really have a serious issue on how to read something. Do you see my post? Yes, you are, in fact, seeing my post, but do you really read it? No, you don’t. That’s why there are so many errors and repetitions in your post. Are you sure you are wearing the right glasses? Not from the street, right?

Here, I repeat again:

Even if I pretended that you are right, I will choose Hinduism because it has more than Islam.

Which part in this sentence that you don’t understand? I also copied some Hindu science to show that pseudoscience is not only in Islam and if you want more than you can try other religions. These days, people like Zakir Naik love to generate lies and word games just for money and convert. When asked to reverse the pattern, none of these people can do it. The problem is, can you do it? So far, you are evading my challenge.

Yeah, I can see that you weren’t the one who dig it. You only copied and pasted it. Whose book is that? From that many Hindu scriptures in your list, you only give me one unclear translation? Or that’s the only thing you can get since you were just copy posting another person’s post? And that Steven Ronsen thingy, why is it always stick on that translation? Give me each translation from each book first, including the source, the word by word explanation, the context, and the date when it was made. Oh, and that translation of yours is funny indeed. It only shows that Hindu scriptures can predict who is going to come and doing things. That’s the only thing you have brought, nothing else in there. Did it talk about Monotheism? Nope. Or Muhammad is the true prophet? Nope. Or Allah swt is god? Nope. Or Islam is scientific? Nope and trust me, I know this is false.

Pretending that the translations or even the sankrit words are correct:

– An illeterate teacher => duh, even the typo is included, you amateur. Nothing extraordinary, this is only a teacher
– and he will give religion => Religion is many, not all of them are right, heck it can be all of them but one is wrong, at least according to this.
– to his fifth-class companion => What is the meaning of this? Pagan? I doubt it.Maybe it means the caste system and it describe the fifth class which is the untouchables, polluted laborers (the outcast)
– (Steven Ronsen, 1996) => Does anyone here have the reference that doesn’t mention this guy? This is important.

etan mitrantare mleccha acaryena samanvitah Mahamad iti Khyatah siyyagrasva samanvitah.

Mahamaad means: maha = great and maad = deceiver, wicked

Mleccha:

1 A barbarian,a non Aryan ( One not speaking the Sanskrit Language or not conform in to Hindu or Aryan institutions),a foreigner in general

2 An Outcast, a very low man,

He who eats cow's meat, and speaks a lot against shastras and he, who is also devoid of all forms of spiritual practice, is called a mlechha.

3 A sinner, A wicked person, A savage or barbarian race

In the end, I only see an illiterate teacher (not prophet) bringing religion (not every religion is right) to his pagan brothers (assuming this is right). What kind of religion? It’s the same paganism of course, worshiping stone, idolizing a mortal, doing weird ritual, committing many scientific blunders, etc.

Conclusion from this amateurish copy paste: It doesn’t show that Muhammad is a prophet bringing true religion or any form of monotheism. It only shows an illiterate common teacher bringing a common religion to his common pagans. Wow, that’s some truth.

Abdullah ihsan says:

@ sanada

First… a little out of topic just to confirm your statement.

May I assume that your bringing up Hindu's holy books in the Indonesian’s site means that you believe them? If so, read these other scriptures:

Atharva Weda , Kanda 20, Sukta 127, Mantra 1 – 3. Bhavishya Purana, Parva 3, Kandha 3, Adhya 3, Sloka 5 :

etan mitrantare mleccha
acaryena samanvitah
Mahamad iti Khyatah
siyyagrasva samanvitah

translated to English as:

"An illeterate teacher will come along,
Mohhamed by name, and he will give religion
to his fifth-class companion"

In the Indonesian version the last verses are clearly translated into …”he will give religion to the pagans."

I did not dig these ones up. A Hindus posted them for discussions

These parts foretold about Muhammad's prophecy long before the Torah and Bible did. They mentioned him by name. Brief and clear.

Are you going to say that these parts are not authentic while the science ones are?

Sanada_10 says:

Yo, Abdullah Ihsan, running away from me is not good you know since you didn't respond on this LASER thingy but coming here and misinterpreted my post, this is shameful and narcissistic behavior. What can I say, you follow Muhammad. Even if I pretended that you are right, I would prefer HInduism since it has more than Islam. You dig? PS: Mine is not called faith.

Sanada_10 says:

Nope, Quran follow modern science. Do my challenge first then talk,.

Abdullah ihsan says:

@ Just Dan.

Are you sure about your statement? the Quran is much more than just a scientific book. Modern Science followed the Quran. Like I told you in Indonesian site, Allah repeatedly invites man to observe his creations. Observe….. is what He asks man to do.

Have you found any inventor who had not done any observation prior to his invention?

Arya Anand says:

Yes. They are supposed to return the Dome of the Rock to Israel but this group of so called free mind Muslims( actually they are not free mind thinkers like other Muslims) are just a small fraction of the vast majority of traditional Muslims. They are the hopeless people following mirage. So they can't just do anything in the matter. TL

Sanada_10 says:

Mr. Sina, how about you begin an article involving another Islamic pseudoscience called “LASER” in Surah 17:1 (?) dan Isra Miraj hadith, “Al Buraq” which had been claimed as “solidified light” just like in “noor” case. There is a don … oh, I mean a muslim who boldly said this to you. Although quite ridiculous, it will be interesting to see new claim like this since “egg shaped” or “embryology” are too common, repetitive, and boring.

drjikhan says:

That he heard Allah's Apostle saying, "When the people of Quraish did not believe me (i.e. the story of my Night Journey),
I stood up in Al-Hijr and Allah displayed Jerusalem in front of me, and I began describing it to them while I was looking at it."

—Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 226[15]
and this occured when a non-muslim who had been to jeruslam before asked about the structure of the mosque from Mohammad PBUH just to prove that he was lying…. and that non-muslim and all other non-muslims then stopped alledging him…..

John K says:

How true!

John K says:

And who cares what Islam says about Jesus? Islam is a medieval death cult from a barbarian culture. Like it's really credible.

John K says:

Your story also shows a fundamental ignorance about the doctrine of Atonement and the prerequisite of repentance.

You are really wasting your time with your childish stories. Grow up and get a life.

KKR says:

This is a Joke, tomorrow anyone can make a new story…….i believe this is an Evil Cult and the followers will all go to hell.

talatmd78 says:

Islam is the only religion where all the prophets mentioned in Torah and Bible are been regarded as same like Mohammed. Islam is saying that From Adam till Muhammad, everybody is having the same agenda, In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.

That means Islam is saying Jesus is not as ALLAH’s son. He is a prophet and creation of ALLAH as well as slave of ALLAH. Same for Uzair, Same for Mohammed.Same for all of us.

talatmd78 says:

I am quite curious about your remark for Miraj. Let me tell you one story, There was a king who is very much kind to his people. He was having only one son as heir of the Kingdom. But the people are not as kind as like the king. One day three people were been judged for rape, Man slaughter & theft and got the verdict to be slaughtered for their ill doings. The king felt pity for them and offered his son instead of those infidels and released them. The judges slaughtered the prince instead of them. The King told the people that since I have persecuted my own son in favor of your misdoing, As a Prince He took away all of your sin and you are now free from all prosecution. So just Mourn for him. My story ends here. If you find this story is believable( As you believe for Jesus or Uzair), then I don’t see your point of expressing disbelieve on Miraj.

John K says:

Good. Then they can give the Dome of the Rock back to Israel.

Truth Lover says:

Some Muslims in free-mind.org forum claim that this farthest Masjid refers to Masjid in heaven!