The Big Bang in the Quran
Muslims claim many scientific truths that were discovered recently were already mentioned in the Quran. Dr. Zakir Naik has a list of them and has convinced many Muslims of those claims. In these series I will discuss several of them.
Here is the claim made by Dr. Naik:
As far as Qur’an and modern Science is concerned, in the field of ‘Astronomy’, the Scientists, the Astronomers, a few decades earlier, they described, how the universe came into existence – They call it the ‘Big Bang’. And they said… ‘Initially there was one primary nebula, which later on it separated with a Big Bang, which gave rise to Galaxies, Stars, Sun and the Earth, we live in.’ This information is given in a nutshell in the Glorious Qur’an, in Surah Ambiya, Ch. 21, Verse No. 30, which says, “Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, and we clove them asunder?’ Imagine this information which we came to know recently, the Qur’an mentions 14 hundred years ago.
In his fervor to make the Quran look scientific Dr. Naik overlooks the fact that the theory of Big Bang precludes the concept of creation. If the Big Bang is true then the story of the creation and Adam and Eve must be false and vice versa.
Dr. Naik should have at least studied the theory of the Big Bang before commenting on it. The theory of the Big Bang stipulates that about 13.7 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the universe. Prior to that event all of the energy that was later transformed into matter was contained at one infinitely small point (not nebula). This explosion, not only gave birth to the particles that gave birth to the matter, but also to space and time.
The Big Bang actually consisted of an explosion of space within itself unlike an explosion of a bomb were fragments are thrown outward. The galaxies were not all clumped together, but rather the Big Bang lay the foundation for the universe. Therefore the notion of “separating the heaven and the earth” is absurd.
This is how the Big Bang took place
Furthermore, the earth is not separate from the universe. Galaxies are scattered everywhere. Each galaxy contains several hundred billion stars. Earth is a planet revolving around one of the stars in the Milky Way. Where is the separation between the heavens and the earth?
This is what the Qur’an says:
21:30, ‘The heavens and the earth were joined together, and we clove them asunder’
This is wrong. Earth is not separate from heaven. It is, as it has always been, and will forever be, a part of it.
The Quran gives also another version of the creation – Verse 41.11.
“Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: “Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.” They said: “We do come (together), in willing obedience.”
These two verses contradict each other. Were the heaven and the earth joined together and Allah clove them asunder or were they apart and Allah told them to come together?
Of course both claims are false. The earth is inside the heaven and part of it. They can neither come together nor separate. The Qur’an gives two contradictory versions of the creation and both of them are wrong.
But where does the tale of God separating heaven and earth comes from? Muhammad hardly said anything that was new. The verse 21:30 rehashes Genesis 1: 6-9
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
So if this explanation is a miracle, the credit should go to the Bible and not to the Qur’an. However, the origin of this tale dates back to pre-biblical stories of Babylonians and Mesopotamians.
The Qur’an is full of legends borrowed from the Bible. These in turn were based on the myths of ancient Sumerians, Babylonians, Canaanites, etc. Muhammad’s cosmology is the cosmology of the ancient people.
In pre-Hebrew Semitic myth two watery tumultuous beings, one male and one female, Apsu (sweet water) and Tiamat (salt water) give birth to a variety of sea monsters and gods. In the ensuing chaos Tiamat, the female creator, tries to take control. Her descendants unite against her, choosing one of their numbers –Marduk, the god of Babylon to lead them. Armed with a hurricane and riding a tempest drawn by four fiery steeds, Marduk meets Tiamat and her evil accomplice Kingu in battle and kills them both.
The great god Marduk slaying Tiamat the dragon goddess of salt water. She is the personification of the Untame, Primeval Forces of the Universe before established order and the mother of all gods.
After the death of Tiamat her conqueror forms the heavens and the earth by cutting her body open “like a cockleshell” and lifting up one half to form the sky while leaving the bottom half as the earth:
“The lord rested; he gazed at the huge body, pondering how to use it, what to create from the dead carcass. He split it apart like a cockleshell; with the upper half he constructed the arc of sky, he pulled down the bar”. http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/worldview.html
So the verse 21:30 is not talking about the big bang. It is rehashing a biblical tale that in turn was borrowed from ancient mythology.
Now, let us discuss the origin of the verse 41.11. In this verse the Quran says, the sky was smoke and God said to it and the earth to “come together,” which they did willingly.
Of course, God talking to inanimate objects such as heavens and earth and telling them “come together willingly or unwillingly” and they responding, “we will come willingly,” is good for children’s stories. Heaven and earth are made of gasses and rocks. They don’t have a will and don’t respond.
Furthermore, the earth was never separated from sky/heaven. So they could not have come together.
Let me quote all the four verses that talk about his cosmic event.
| 41:9 | Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. |
| 41:10 | He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance). |
| 41:11 | Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: “Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.” They said: “We do come (together), in willing obedience.” |
| 41:12 | So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge. |
Here we see Muhammad saying that the first thing God did was to create the Earth in two days. Then he set on it the mountains and plants and animals. All this took another four days. “Then”, i.e. in the last day, after all the above was already done, he erected the sky.
ثُمَّ اسْتَوَى إِلَى السَّمَاء
This is not how the universe is formed. According to the above verses, the creation of the world starts with the creation of the Earth. Once the Earth is completed, it is filled with plants and animals, it is only then that Allah turns to the sky and lifts it up and adorns it with stars. Any school kid (not being fed with the Islamic nonsense) will tell you this is crazy.
The universe is estimated to be 13.7 billion years old. The Earth is only 4.5 billion years old. The first micro-organisms appeared 3.5 billion years ago. Although soft bodied creatures have appeared 3 billion years ago, the oldest animal fossil found is only 600 million years old. And we are just talking about “multi-celled” organisms such as sponge-like animals, cnidarians, and worms. The dinosaurs appeared in the Jurassic period, approximately 200 million years ago and became extinct over 60 million years ago. It is in these 60 million years that all the modern animals, birds and mammals have evolved.
When the universe was in gaseous form, i.e. over 13 billion years ago there was no earth and there were no creatures. The story of the evolution/creation given in the Quran is anachronistic and asinine. It has no resemblance to what science says. Every aspect of it is wrong. The verse 12 continues with this potty description of the creation. It says that He (Allah) completed them as seven firmaments in two Days. (Note how often Muhammad forgets that the Quran is supposed to be dictated by Allah and refers to its alleged author in third person).
What seven layers of heaven? There are no seven layers of heaven. This is fairytale. I explained this point here.
Then Muhammad says that Allah adorned the lower heaven with “lights” (stars), which is of course nonsense.
Similar tales can be found in the Bible and in the lore of the Sumerians, Babylonians and the Canaanites. These ancient people thought that the sky is made of seven layers pitched like a dome. The word اسْتوَى (erect, raise, stand, hoist, pitch) in this verse shows that Muhammad also thought, the sky is a dome that is pitched over the earth. In the verse 13.2 and 31.10 he even mentions that this sky is raised “without any pillars that ye can see”.
These are not scientific descriptions of the universe. They are based on the beliefs of primitive people about the universe. The word smoke in the verse 41:11 is not talking about the early state of the universe. It says before the dome of sky was raised, everything above the surface of the earth was like smoke. When the universe was a nebula the earth did not exist. It came to exist over nine billion years later.
The origin of this fable can be found in the myths of the Mesopotamians that I quoted already. When the great god Marduk, slew the serpent of the seas (Tiamat), he clove her body and hoisted the upper half as sky. He then firmly fixed the stars, arranging the constellations of the zodiac, and created the moon and set him as a creature of night, to make known the days monthly without failing”. (Note that Muhammad gave this very same answer when people asked him about the moon: “They ask you concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in the affairs of men, and for Pilgrimage 2.189). In this way Marduk brought order to the universe. Marduk created seven heavens, and stationed each god (planets revolving around the sun were believed to be gods) to his appropriate sphere. Before that everything was formless and in a state of chaos.
The dragoness goddess Tiamat represents the state of untamed formless universe. She is surrounded by mist and clouds of smoke, principles of disorder.
The Big Bang Theory is just a theory. Unlike the theory of evolution, it has not been proven. An associate professor at the National Tsing Hua University in Taiwan has proposed a new model of explaining the Universe. According to expert Wun-Yi Shu, mass, time, and length, some of the most basic aspects of the Cosmos, can be converted into each other as evolution takes place within the Universe. The explanation removes the necessity of accounting for the ever-increasing acceleration in the Cosmos by using the notion of dark energy. He proposes, time and space can be converted into each other by using a basic conversion factor, and namely the speed of light. Similarly, mass and length can be converted into each other. According to this theory the expansion of the Universe makes time convert into space, whereas mass changes into length. When the Cosmos will begin to contract, the exact opposite will take place.
Based on this new theory, the universe expands and contracts indefinitely which precludes the Big Bang. If this theory is proven right Hindus could claim that their sacred scriptures is scientific.
Based on this model time has no beginning and no end, which means there is no moment of creation and the world will never come to an end. Also that singularities such as the Big Bang and the Big Crunch (Universal contraction) cannot and did not exist. Another effect is that the Universe passes through alternating stages of acceleration and deceleration, similar to the way Earth experiences alternative reversals of its magnetic poles.
@Ali Sina
Nice article. Very insightful. The Big Bang is not JUST A THEORY. Its a Scientific Theory
Are you on drugs, or just so imbecilic that you believe total shit? The Big Bang, and Evolution are based on innumerable scientific evidence, from many scientific disciplines. You must be a total ignoramus to not realise that.
Please leave science to scientists – you may speculate on the metaphysical, but please realise that, in your case it is totally meaningless. Like saying a horse can fly.
At least science is backed up by possible theory, then that theory is tested against known evidence. When more and more evidence agrees with the theory, and no evidence disagrees, and evidence begins to be arrived at by different scientific disciplines, then the theory becomes more and more certain, perhaps modified by new knowledge and insights.
Whereas religion takes account of NO evidence, or science, and uses pure FAITH to make up theories. This is pseudo scientific nonsense, at its very worst. It may have fooled illiterate desert dwellers 1400 years ago, but any 12 year old child will now tell you what is wrong.
The Big Bang has been verified in many different ways, maths, physics, astronomy, particle knowledge. A simple statement about heaven and earth can be interpreted in a thousand ways.
Note carefully – the non-islamic interpretation was incorrect – they can never allow THEMSELVES to be wrong !
Very Thin on Science.very Thick on Faith..Some random verses are going to be right, very many are going to be very, very, wrong!
In India we call this man ZAKIR NALAYAK – google it for definition
@Sierraman,
Before foolishly asserting that this article is saying that koran is at fault, re-read it. It is also not saying that the Big Bang is correct or incorrect. It exposes the failed attempt by some apologist to see Big Bang in Quran using their own personal whims. Whether or not Big Bang is true Quran doesn't have anything to support it. One of your ancient scholars, Al-Berauni, clearly stated that the Quran "does not interfere in the business of science nor does it infringe on the realm of science." And that is a correct position to hold if you want to make any sense of the 'science' in Quran.
Before foolishly asserting the koran is at fault, I suggest one gets his facts right! As long as the big bang is no more no less than a theory which can be proven right or wrong, logic dictates you don’t try to undermine the theory in any book even if it is a religious one. Just suppose, another theory surfaces in the future and indicates the universe at one point of time was indeed a solid mass joined as one piece of creation as the quran stipulates then exploded forming the beginning point of the universe we know today, the same universe we don’t seem to agree on how it originated and still diligently trying to understand? What will we then say about the Koran or any other ancient theory. I say we wait until we know what we are talking about!!!!!
So u hav to resort to name calling and putting stereotypes on a group of people , and you say he's typical, way to make urself smart. If u want to make a point there is no need to be rude, just shows that u hav no betta points. Yes, u might not agree with some of the things that the quran says but no, u shouldn't be disrespecting it – doesn't the bible teach you to respect everyone no matter who or what they are?? Wow, even the quran teaches people to respect ohter religions.
Dear author,
i would like to shed light into the mystery which everyone seems soo interested about in Islam. nobody knows the real truth as it is meant to be hidden in order to control the population & to deceive the servant humans. who i am? i can just say i am not from the "servant humans population". sooner or later this truth will be said by the truth/awareness prophet who will come down in the coming years to shed light on all religions. for now, i will give you truth of the Islamic quote "Allah lives in 7th Sky". well, the truth is that the 7th sky is nothing but 7th planet after earth. counting from mars to Pluto we get 6 planets, so the 7th planet is nothing else but NIBIRU.
Thankyou
لااله الا الله محمد رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم
although that quran is not just for certain people or group like the previous religious or holy books islam is the last book from god the last warning for all creatures and its for unite all people into belive in one god only and it's the conclusion of all we need in this life and the next life.
so if the holy books like a software in certain country then the quran is latest update and in its working globally and nothing is alid after it. but that doesnot mean there is any wrong in the athor software because it comes from the same programer and god has the higher example
and at the end note that allah clearly said in quran :(And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills – let him believe; and whoever wills – let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place)
(alkahf 18-29).
hi i am manar dont forget that bilble and quran came from same source wich is allah the only god
no need for effence also remind you that allah said in quran:And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do.
(al'n'aam 108)
Sort of like Karma. Cyclical lives and deaths as described in Buddhism and Hinduism
79:30 says: And the earth , moreover, He has extended (to wide expanse). Ossy stop using Takiya. People on this web have extensive knowledge.
[79:30] He made the earth egg-shaped.
brother venkat i am Hindu and atheist any Indian can tell this is not contradictory .All i want to say is we confuse religion with the behavior of our friends and family.reality is theological you can produce large number of terrorist leaders for Islamic world unlike other religions regardless of space time cultures and races. Basically the good Muslims of India you are talking about are just good Indians and good human beings but theologically religiously and historically they are very bad Muslims.You are insulting abdul kalam by saying that he is good Muslim he is great Indian influenced by vedic traditions of India but pathetic Muslim .I have seen Muslim denouncing him because of his belies in other religions.WE should work hard to show hatred of humanity in Islam and expose in in terms of history, science, logic, moral values and their great prophet life and lies to save mankind.
Iranian king rightly said it belongs to desert of Arabia not to humanity they should go back to desert
our goal should to liberate any Muslim of any kind creed and degree from Islam .
insha allah islam will not be there even in saudi arabia if we non Muslims understand Islam properly in relation to the behavior of different types Muslims.
As always sina'll surely respond with similar non sense.
Thank you dumb ass for your thought provoking comment.
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This idiot makIng articles and talking shite should man up and debate with a proper scholar of islam on tv. You might learn something you fool
Haha this person loves twisting and making up bull shit
How dare you call yourself a freeman!!?? You are no better than millions of those idiots out there living in the dark ages. Childish and immature reasons can be found in what you call your holy book. One of the most confusing, contradictory and at times simply barbaric books ever contrived by homo sapiens of the worst kind. Please discard your title "freeman" and take on "slave-man" or "barbarian." How can Mr. Sina come to public places considering the track records of Islamic barbarians world over. You believe in only one thing "kill the infidels" and that seems to be the edifice of your religion. Now don't accuse me of not knowing your religion……
Zakir Naik MBBS is basically a charlatan. He caters to that category of Muslims who suffer from low self esteem and have little promise of moving ahead in life. These people fall easy prey to charlatans like Zakir Naik MBBS. They are the ones who plant bombs and are easy recruits for jihadist movements all over the world. Besides these people, their scriptures also promise them heaven, sex and an exalted life for killing infidels (kafirs) who are none other than Hindus in India and Christians elsewhere. The concepts of Dar al harb and Dar al Islam also aggravates the situation. Even Dr. B R Ambedkar was aware of this threat to India not very long ago. It is only our vote-bank enamored and pseudo-secular political parties who deny this all too obvious fact. Zakir Naik is making things difficult for our secular republic and he is taking the gullible muslims back to the 7th century Arabia and the dark ages.
A new University of Colorado at Boulder study indicates Earth in its infancy probably had substantial quantities of hydrogen in its atmosphere, a surprising finding that may alter the way many scientists think about how life began on the planet.
"Comparing the body -soul relationship to candle and its light is straw man fallacy." You commented on that video, "Some say it is reflected in body, as lights reflects in a mirror." I don`t see how that analogy is different from the candle flame one, can the mirror reflect light when it has been destroyed? Or can the flame exist without the candle? The answer to those questions is no, that is why i say that consciousness cannot be produced without a body. Of course its effects will continue even after death, just like the effects of the reflected light but that is the only way things continue after death.
"The meaning of the word existence
What do we mean by existence? The very definition for existence is that a thing is said to exist if it relates in some way to some other thing. That is, things exist in relation to each other. For us, that means that something is part of our system (‘The known world’). God is defined to be infinite, in which case it is not possible for there to be anything other than god because “infinite” is all-inclusive. But if there is nothing other than god then either god cannot be said to exist for the reason just explained, or god is the known world, in which case, by definition, god is not a god." Actually their is a much more simple proof for the non-existence of God. Things which exist are (by definition) finite, so the infinite does not exist, therefore God which is defined as infinite does not exist.
consciousness is self awareness (awareness of self and object)(or that`s what i mean when i say consciousness), you are not your shirt because the shirt is not conscious,but if it was it would either be 1 of 2 things 1)A seperate conscious thing or 2)It would be part of your body. The same with the body/soul relationship, if your not your body then either 1)It is a seperate thing, which it can`t be because then you would not have any senses,emotions,thoughts,memories or anything else. 2)The body is the soul.
The analogy is relevant because materialism is based on the idea that our brains are electronic circuits like computers and that somehow this creates consciousness.
I am saying that you are not your body anymore than you are your clothing.
Forget the computers i am talking about humans (and other conscious beings).
No, that's not what I am saying. I am saying that computers have a programmer and will therefore never have their own consciousness.
I see a problem with this because you yourself believe that our consciousness has a programer.
Believe me it's not going to happen. Remember, you heard it here first! Artificial intelligence is artificial. It's simply programming a decision tree so that various choices are made according to variations on the input. This is simply a sophisticated array of electrical switches. It is not thought and has no intelligence beyond the instructions the programmer gave it. They already have cars that can drive themselves, but they are not life.
We may one day be able to program computers to be self-aware, actually thanks to the work being done in the field of Artificial intelligence we may acheive it in the next few decades. You are right to mention "science fiction", i think of the film "the sixth day" where exact clones can be made and programed with all the memories of the "original", one day even that may be done – just like a exact copy of a sound file can be made.
It's just a comparison of the models of we are our body versus we are operators of a machine called the body. The model of we are our bodies is really unsustainable because no computer no matter how sophisticated ever became a consciousness. This is a theme that has been treated widely in science fiction. In popular culture it is seen from Star Trek TOS Spock being too brainy and seeking his human side to Star Trek TNG's Data being a machine and striving to be human as examples.
Well it isn`t incompataible with the analogy of a damaged brain losing access to memory and certain bodily functions. But it depends what you mean by "consciousness", if you mean the effects that your body gives off then of course "consciousness" continues after death (and is constantly being "reborn"), just like the effects of Key A.
It does not mean ignoring data and in anycase you still did not answer why most people that clinically die don`t have an NDE (i mean if NDE had anything to do with an afterlife)?
That is a conscious decision to ignore data that does not support your hypothesis. A scientist must be objective and not allow pre-conceived notions and hopes to influence the experimental analysis.
I don't see how that is incompatible with your analogy of a damaged brain losing access to memory and certain bodily functions.
Well i would think that the NDE`s whatever their are, have nothing to do with an afterlife.
Yes but if you lose key A, your keyboard is never going to produce that letter again.
No. It just means that the interface to your body has been damaged. Like if the keyboard on your computer developed some dead keys due to damage to the underlying contact membrane.
I haven't seen statistics on that, but given two sets of data, how would you as a scientist reconcile them?
Yes the brain is a computer, but you can damage it or destroy it (just like consciousness). All what you said about the computer having effects on me (as well many other things) is correct, that is pretty much what i said before with the radio analogy. And yes in that sense we do not die and are immortal- through our effects on the world.
Yes but Man does have consiousness, our consciousness is not seperate from us. If you damage your brain you can lose your memory and certain bodily funtions, that means your consiousness has been damaged as well, or in other words your soul and body are the same thing.
The majority of people who have cardiac arrest and people who clinically die don`t have a NDE, now does that mean their is no life after death?
David Berlinski must be one of the most articulate intellectuals in the world. He is agnostic, but the arrogance of your position is precisely what he is fighting against in his book and the video above.
We have discussed this before in the hypothesis that the brain could be acting as a receiver of input from the person. And the nervous system provides feedback to the brain about the physical world through the senses. It's a human interface system. You input to your computer through the keyboard, mouse, scanner, camera, optical drive, etc. The computer gives output to you through the screen, speakers, etc. You and I are affecting each other through this medium even though we are not co-located.
The problem is this tells us nothing whatsover about reality. Assuming their have been cases where people could recall conversations what does that prove?
No. That's the wrong comparison. The car doesn't have consciousness. The car has a driver. The car is destroyed in an accident. The driver lives and buys a new car.
"we should be looking for an explaination for it and asking how it works and so forth"
But if you exclude a possible result of the experiment on ideological grounds you are not a true scientist.
Some of the NDEs involve being clinically dead for a long period of time before being revived. These people bring back the longer stories about what happens on the other side.
Their was time "before" the big bang, time (if defined as a finite thing, which it is by the physicists) needs a cause, now because time is a finite thing it means you can conceive of it, so time has a cause – even if that cause is you.
Well if you do have that experience don`t claim it proves atheism is true because that would be a very sad day indeed.
Belief in god's creation is also not convincing to rational people.
We come to know that time didn't exist before the big bang,so that simply prove's that there is no time for a god to create the universe anyway,but in so-called holy books god says time matters for him,lets see
BIBLE-CREATED EVERYTHING IN 7 DAYS
QUR'AN-YOUR 1000 YEAR'S IS 1 DAY TO ALLAH
this simply says that time matter's to god,so when there is no time,how could god do anything?
Ok,I will do one thing,leave me ur phone number,than after 50 years when I am near to death,i will tell u my experience,ok?
As the late Christopher Hitchens used to brilliantly put it to his opponents in debate "If a man is born of a virgin does that mean he is the son of a God" absolutely not. The same logic applies here "if i can recall the conversations of my neighbours after a NDE does that mean their is a life after death" Once again the answer is absoulutely not, of course this phenomenon should be of interest (just as we would be greatly interested if someone actually was born of a virgin) and we should be looking for an explaination for it and asking how it works and so forth but thats it, you can`t get to "afterlife exists" just like a muslim who had this experience could not say "Alhamdulillah this conferms to me their is no God but god and muhammed is his messanger".
I don’t know why such a simple matter is boggling you so much. When people are close to death or temporarily die they report have a special experience. How that death is induced is irrelevant. The important thing is the experience. Is the experience real or is it imagined? If those who have such experiences report seeing things that can be verified, then the experience has been real. When occasionally some of the patients report things that they could not have known, then we have to assume that what they have experienced was real and not entirely a fantasy concocted by their brain. It appears that there are several such cases. They only way we can dismiss that is to believe that everyone, including the doctors who report these stories, are lying. If the stories are true, then we must accept NDE as real and not as fabrication of the mind. Again how the “death” is induced is completely insubstantial. You can induce the momemtary death by Ketamine or by emerging the head of the eprson in water and pulling him out.
Muslims,when they can't defend their religion from prove,they do it from emotional black mail,because Muhammad made them so emotional,so that when they want to leave Islam,u feel sad,but don't be fooled,they will make ur life hell ,ur one only life,and finally u will be one of the terrorist,and by the way Allah is quite confusing,first he says,obey him,then his says obey Muhammad,so who should we obey ? really weird god,I am happy that now i am not one of the fool's,thank you Allah for your guidance,lol
In the Qur'an u can find many ayah that praises Muhammad,no muslim can prove Qur'an,that's a challenge which this site,and supporter's of,give,there has been not even a single muslim who can claim that Muhammad and his so-called Qur'an was ok,but I was guided thank's to the only one,Wallah,the brother of Allah,he was born last month,really!!!!!!!
Okay then lets compare to a machine lets say a car and lets assume this car has consciousness, now destroy the car can its "consciousness" go on? Can it continue to produce effects? Likewise take away the consciousness and can the car continue to operate?
No its a logical fact, if i was completly independent of you (just to make an example) how could i have any effect on you?
The ketamin causes reactions in the brain which then causes the "near death experience" and you say this is evidence of the soul and survival, how did you work that out?
Simply its hard to know what do u believe,i think ur confusing ur self.this is a place for Muslims who want to defend Islam(of course they cant),and for us so called-non believers,to expose the truth,and we always win,so which side are you,and yes,no free advice 🙂
It sounds more like belief and hypothesis than fact.
But that is the opposite of my statement. I propose the body is a machine operated by the mind. Sure your computer puts out electromagnetic radiation, but you are not your computer. You operate it.
The believers in the soul often say compare the soul to a the radio waves and the radio to the body now the waves exist independent of the radio. Now that is true and that pretty is much the same for the body-mind ralationship, but what they forget is that if you take a hammer to the radio its not going to transmit the waves anymore. That is the same for the body destroy it and its not going to send out signals (so to speak) anymore. Of course the consciousness will continue through the effects it has on the world – even after the death of the body- just like the radio waves will even after the radio has been destroyed. But that is the only way things continue after death – through their effects.
So you don`t experience the physical world? Your consciousness has effects on the material world it has effects on you. where do you think your memory comes from? If the mind existed COMPLETELY independent of the "physical world" in a "spritual world" and were entirely separate and independent, then the physical world could have no impact on the spiritual world, the spiritual world would be entirely unaware of the physical world. If the spiritual world was aware of the physical world, then the physical world would be having an impact on the spiritual world, and so the spiritual world wouldn't be separate and independent. That is something i know as that is a logical fact.
no,i didn't,and Muhammad is the second god for muslims,aahaaaaaa worship muhammad,and thou shall be saved,from the fire of hell,and join paradise,(not sure,cause allah is the best of the deceiver's)
Muslims are so stupid,that even in prayer they take the name of muhammad,i dont know why they worship him so much, oh now i get it,maybe muslims want to marry their daughter's to him,yeah, so now he will marry a girl of not 9 nor 7,but 2,yes,he will do that.
Is Wallah the deity of Wally World? (otherwise known as Wally Mart)
Hey! You stole my idea! There was a comment somewhere and I was going to say something about Allah being Muhammad's "Mini Me"!
We could use it for a shoulder patch 🙂
Hassan,seriously we don't need allah's justice,cause his brother WALLAH,is with us,really!!!
When a person is near to his death,his mind works slower and slower and slower,and he start's remembering his past,and then he start's to see his dead's,but in reality ,there is nothing,it's just that the near to dead person's brain is going to finish.
Oh,so i need to learn more Qur'an,and soon I will make my religion,and the god will be Wallah,the small brother of Allah,
I love the logo!
No, because this is not a case of pure logic. This is science. Science uses logic, but has to build its theorems on physical evidence. In math, all the premises you build your logical structure on are predefined. Change the premise, and the logical conclusion changes. In the real world there are not such easy clear-cut premises, and hence science is constantly adjusting its theories. As I already said, scientific theories have to be tested and proved with experiments, and you cannot design an experiment to test the proposed hypotheses, at least not at our current state of the art.
I think the three of us were together in a previous conversation in which the possibility of the brain as a receiver was discussed. It is my theory that our minds operate our bodies in this manner.
I read a study of near death experiences (NDE) written by an engineer, so even though it wasn't his field, he was able to bring a modicum of scientific method to the study. The book was organized with the shorter experiences at the front of the book and the longer ones followed. With the exception of a couple of oddities, the experiences all fell into two categories which followed the same pattern regardless of the length of the experience. In the majority people had the classic tunnel of light experience and if they stayed out long enough to reach the end of the tunnel, they were embraced by a deity that they identified as their God, even though they don't report the person identifying himself by name, so the Christians identified the being as Christ. The longer they stayed out, the more details they reported of life on the other side including meeting family, hearing music of greater beauty than earthly beauty, flowers more vibrant than earthly flowers, and etc. The second category was a more geometric cosmic vision that I don't remember the details about as much. One of the exceptions to these two patterns was a man who was living a decidedly evil life and reported being in darkness rather than light and being chased by demons.
I like the satire of Muhammad. Verse 9 won't get you any thumbs up from religious visitors to this site, but I didn't give a thumbs down.
Cute! Copied Ali's logo. With your comment right above his, it looked like he made two posts!
This site has enough proof against Islam that God will not justify your defense of an evil religion.
You don’t know that and therefore this comparision is straw man fallacy.
Yes, NDE can be induced and that makes the case in favor of the survival of consciousness after physical death more compelling.
"NDE`s" can be caused by ketamin (see http://www.near-death.com/experiences/paranormal1… ) How do you explain that from a "spritual worldview"?
"We simply don't know about this relationship and whethere there is a soul or not." The fact their is a relationship between the body and mind is enough just like their is a relationship between the flame and the candle. Just like the flame wasn`t independent of the candle, so the mind is not independent of the body.
You say the brain stopped funtioning this is not possible if the brain stopped funtioning you are not coming back. Also according to these monks, people can have these experiences without being in a "near death" situation. NDE`s can be introduced by drugs as well (one example of that was the NDE researcher Susan Blackmore) has that got something to with afterlife or soul? Also what about people in permanent vegetative state where is their soul or memories? The people in coma who remember nothing and those people that have no conscious doing a NDE what was their soul doing? And still assuming people heard a conversation while they was on the operating table that must mean the afterlife or literal rebirth is true? These people can claim from that, that muhammed is the prophet of allah or jesus is the son of God does that mean they are? It would still be no evidence of a afterlife just like it is no evidence for the existence of jinns all it would prove is something happened which enabled the person to hear a conversation. We don`t have a clue what caused it but what we know for sure is it wasn`t Allah or the existence of a independent sprit.
"There is no way a person lying on a bed can see the back of the neck of the person leaning over him from above or see his relatives in the waiting room and hear their conversation, let alone when his heart has stopped beating and his brain has stopped functioning."
"I this claim based on any scientific evidence or is it faith based like saying Allah is the creator?" I base this claim on the fact that man and consciousness is a part of nature just like a tree, a candle, a star, a cat or anything else you want to name.
"They do not have any logical evidence for that any more that you have to prove otherwise." So the mind is complety seperate from the body? If that was the case then the mind would have no effect on the body, which is of course nonsense. If the mind was seperate from the body then i could not write this message, also try to stay awake for a few days and see if your body can take it.
“their is nothing special or unique about man or his consciousness.”
I this claim based on any scientific evidence or is it faith based like saying Allah is the creator? Why should anyone believe in your baseless claim and not the baseless claims of the religionists? Is there any difference between your belief and theirs?
“The Buddhists monks and the believers in reincarnation are the one`s engaging in special pleading as they give no reason why the mind is separate from the body,”
They do not have any logical evidence for that any more that you have to prove otherwise. They rely on some empirical observations and explain the anomalies as reincarnation. Those experiences are strange but not enough to draw a conclusion. At the same time they are compelling enough not to deny their existence. Therefore it is wise to remain skeptic until further evidence is found.
“Some of the persons, who were clinically dead, later said they saw their doctors from above and reported what they did. One patient saw a mole that his surgeon had on the back of his neck” As the “old guy” said they are called near death for a reason.
I believe you have difficulty to comprehend. There is no way a person lying on a bed can see the back of the neck of the person leaning over him from above or see his relatives in the waiting room and hear their conversation, let alone when his heart has stopped beating and his brain has stopped functioning. What part of this you don’t understand? There is no explenation for these experiences. Your only defence is to say all these people lie and those who write such books lie and everyone is conspiring to fool you. That would be ridiculous but logical. Any other explenation that you may give to explain them away in a prosaic way is illogical.
(“They are based on several logical fallacies.” Examples?)
I already gave you the example. Comparing the body -soul relationship to candle and its light is straw man fallacy. We simply don’t know about this relationship and whethere there is a soul or not. I know you don’t watch the videos I send you but now I am wondering whether you even read what I write.
"To make this argument valid he has to prove that the mind to the body has the same relationship that the flame has to the candle. This is crucial" His argument was to look at ourselves we should look at other things as ultimately their is no difference, as their is nothing special or unique about man or his consciousness. The Buddhists monks and the believers in reincarnation are the one`s engaging in special pleading as they give no reason why the mind is separate from the body, while the candle flame is not seperate from the wax.
"Some of the persons, who were clinically dead, later said they saw their doctors from above and reported what they did. One patient saw a mole that his surgeon had on the back of his neck" As the "old guy" said they are called near death for a reason, just like a flame that is flickering can still come back, so can a person who is "near death", of course when all brain activity is gone then you are dead just like the flame is not extinguished until all the heat has gone from it.
"They are based on several logical fallacies." Examples?
If you think this bearded guy’s argument is ultimate proof you clearly have no understanding of proof.
He compares the candle to the body and the flame to the mind then he destroys the candle and says the light does not exist. To make this argument valid he has to prove that the mind to the body has the same relationship that the flame has to the candle. This is crucial. But to a believer like you it is irrelevant. This line of argument is misleading analogy and straw man fallacy. No one knows the relationship between mind and body. This guy has already determined that it is the same as flame and the candle.
The fact is that there is no convincing proof for the existence of a consciousness after life and there is no proof against it. The believers on both sides are clinging to faith and not facts. Facts are that we don’t know. And when we don’t know we should be skeptic.
The near death experience is not as easy to explain. Some of the persons, who were clinically dead, later said they saw their doctors from above and reported what they did. One patient saw a mole that his surgeon had on the back of his neck. This is not possible. Some even reported seeing their relatives in the waiting room and heard their conversation. Now that is really impossible. The claim of the children living other lives and then recognizing their previous relatives as the videos I provided previously and you refused to see show, are also inexplicable.
There is simply not enough evidence in either camp to decide one way or the other.
It is difficult to argue with a man of faith. The arguments this old guy shows are not like 2+2=4. They are based on several logical fallacies.
In the name of Comment
There is no absolute proof of a god,nor of after life,in older time's people may think that they will go to heaven and hell,but now,we know with the human logic and science ,that we don't need a god to explain the universe,the people who claim to see jinn or ghost there is just one simple answer,most of time's people just imagine this,when you see into a totally dark room,you will see something,but when you lit the light you see nothing,so this is just a though,nothing more,as well as,religious scholar,start debating them selves,and argue on no point,no religion can be proved right nor any god is mighty enough to prove it,people when they had no time,they made god,and gave him power and so on,and as i said,when you see in a dark place,you think there is something,you can also listen to voices of different kind,calling you,etc.and one of them was Muhammad,if the world wants peace we must remove slavery of these religions,religion is the second name of slavery,we don't need a god to teach us life,and yeah,if you compare Islam and Christianity,i believe,Christianity is more peaceful religion than Islam,Islam is a violent and oppressive,religion,I know there are contradiction's in the Bible,but Christianity and it's follower's are peaceful,and do you know the basic problem of Muslim's?,when you write something against them,or make a website like this one against their god,they will immediately ,make a fatwa,to kill you,instead of talking like educated they,will capture you and kill,let alone the people also their god,Allah,love's killing,
[And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.],Qur'an,Chapter 9,Verse 5.
Now you will get a clear picture of Islam,from this verse,think about the whole Qur'an,the whole Qur'an is not a guidance to human,but a guideline to terrorism,I use to be a devout Muslim,worship Allah,whole night,obey Muhammad etc,But after knowing the truth,i came to know,I wasted my time,on a stupid thought of a sick,Be free,lead your life as you like,no need to follow anyone,life is once,Enjoy,and yeah!,hate Islam and Allah.
Yes their could be "something" going on but what is utterly illogical is to say it is literal rebirth. I once heard a muslim preacher say that what made a boy recall someone else`s memories was the jinn, is that a logical explanation? Even if Muhammed said things that he could not know by "know means" would that mean he must be the prophet of God? The answer is no, and this is where the reasoning is wrong.
ur free to think what u want,rational thinking
You said it,John
Why is God or afterlife not provable or disprovable? In logic we call this special pleading.
I don`t see how your any better than religious people, science deals with the finite and is based on cause and effect, what caused the big bang or life on eath or volcanic eruptions or whatever it is. But it does not deal with ultimate reality, it does not get to the principle behind all this – cause and effect. Searching for the scientific "Theory of Everything" is a waste of time because will already know the ultimate explanation of all things – namely, you guessed it, cause and effect. The physicist who searches for the Theory of Everything without first philosophically comprehending the nature of causation will only ever discover superficial forms of causation (e.g. scientific laws), and not the core principle itself.
did you like this sura?
In the name of comment
1.In the beginning Man created god in his image
2.man made heaven,man made land,
3.than man thought,what next?
4.and man made beauty in heaven,
5. haven't you seen,then which mercy of man will you deny?
6.then man made 72 virgin's,in haven,so that you may do whatever you want,and forget god,and be busy with them.
7.which mercy of man will you deny?
8. haven't you seen that how man made god?,
9.with the all power of man,we made and we die,and think of heaven.
10.but thou are fool to believe in a god.
11.Then god created muhammad,as for you
12.so that you may follow him,and learn good manner's from him
13.and he married 13 time,and for you only 4,because muhammad love woman,
14.which mercy of man will you deny?
15. haven't you seen 9/11
16.how fire came out,and hell went in,
17.but nothing you know,thou are fool,
18,thou will be killed
19.which mercy of man will you deny?
20.did you see how man made god,in his image?
21.thou don;t believe in muhammad,so thou will burn in hell, eternally,
22.but muhammad will go to heaven,
23.and he will marry 20000000 time's,
24.YES!
25.and yes,we (allah)make mistake,and its natural,for human to make mistake
26.but yeah! remember,heaven is there,waiting for you,and your virgin's
27.which mercy of man will you deny?
To Comment,You dont have anyproof against islam.just making,no problem,Allah will justify
Hassan
That's right, but that's what academics and scientists do – speculate about the unknown and search for evidence to form hypotheses. There's nothing wrong with that as long as you know it is really in the pre-hypothesis stage and not a theory or proven fact yet.
"Creanisist,Chapter 1,Verses"
There! You produced a sura like unto it!
"Allah is most forgiving how good,yepeeeeeeeeee,i am gonna go to heaven,and have fun…"
Yeah, but he won't forgive you for becoming kafir.
On the other hand, he will forgive the al-Qaeda guys for living like kafirs before flying the planes into the buildings.
But if you take that point of view, even a Big Bang/Big Crunch cycle theory leaves you with the dilemma of a perpetual motion machine. By the law of entropy, everything should be ground to a halt with the universe filled with equidistant hydrogen atoms. So why is everything here? It is great that you found the knowledge to leave Islam, but you are just in the beginning stages of examining the evidence to find something to replace it.
Congratulations. Of course, not all suras came through so-called inspiration. He even had self-doubts when he stopped having seizures. Most suras really show an ulterior motive for being written anyway. I think the initial experience and Khadijah's enabling just gave him confidence that he was a prophet. All the rest is just sociopathic exploitation.
Bertrand Russel wrote: “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”
This is so universal! Even in women's meetings the older experienced women are amused at how the young mothers have all the answers about child raising.
There could be something going on. There are controversial stories by former CIA employees about leaking secret psychic viewing experiments for spying on Russia, but it is not really significant to me to know whether they are true or not since the reliability of the information is uncertain and the truth or otherwise of the matter is not significant to my paradigm.
"i have proof and know with certanty that God does not exist and their is no life after death, if you ask i will give you proofs for those assertions"
This shows a naive lack of understanding about what kinds of things are provable and not provable. Even Einstein said this is beyond the realm of science. You would not be able to devise any kind of scientific experiment to prove either assertion.
"It is energy or heat. So all things come out of nothing. Heat is not a thing." Heat is a thing as is energy as they give of effects, also then energy would be infinite as anything that exists would be energy. "You" for instance would be energy and "you" exist.
"You simply can't disprove a negative. This is a pinciple in logic." I don`t know what your "logic" is but you can. For a start if there are no proofs of unrestricted negatives, then no one can prove that no one can prove an unrestricted negative. And if no one can prove that no one can prove an unrestricted negative, then it must be logically possible to prove an unrestricted negative. So the claim that no one can prove a universal negative is self-refuting-if it's true, it's false. And yes i can prove that round squares or married bachelors don`t exist (amoung other things).
"Faith and certituede are the same." No they are not i KNOW with 100% certainty that 2+2=4 i don`t "believe" it.
"All we can say is the there is not enough evidene to believe in it. But to say we have proof that there is no life after death belies our ignorance of logic.
You have no proof and you can't have any. It is illogical to make that claim." Why can`t? I thought you said you can`t disprove a negative.? Though we can, see these videos he gives solid logical proofs as to why life after death is impossible http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jmx181ODtQ&li… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Brxaz0OKG8&fe…
“Don`t confuse certainty with faith,”
Faith and certituede are the same.
“i claim i have proof and know with certanty that God does not exist and their is no life after death,”
These are two distinct subject. But you have no proof for either one of them. The claim is nonsense. No one can disprove that Santa Clause, elves or God don’t exist. Anyone who says he has proof that God does not exist does not understand logic. The most we can do is prove that what people believe to be God is highly improbable.
And how can you prove that life after death does not exist? YOu can’t or you don’t know the meaning of proof. All we can say is the there is not enough evidene to believe in it. But to say we have proof that there is no life after death belies our ignorance of logic.
You have no proof and you can’t have any. It is illogical to make that claim. You simply can’t disprove a negative. This is a pinciple in logic.
And as for your question about something coming out of nothing, the answer is yes it is actually the reality. What you see as thing in reality is nothing. The universe is made of atoms and atom is not a real thing. It is the empty. It is energy or heat. So all things come out of nothing. Heat is not a thing.
Allah is most forgiving how good,yepeeeeeeeeee,i am gonna go to heaven,and have fun…
when you open a Christian site(although there are contradiction in bible)it says ,GOD LOVES YOU ,but in muslim,And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.(Quran)
lol,funny
"There is something going on that is inexplainable. That is all you have to admit. But you can't." Okay let`s say (for the sake of arugment) that "something" is going on that at least currently we don`t have a clue what the cause of that is. That`s fine if that`s all your saying, but to then to say this must mean literal rebirth is true is nonsense and nothing but false reasoning. If i was around a few thousand years ago and experienced a earth quake it would be fine to say something inexplainable happened but to say "God caused it" is of course first nonsense and second of all God does not exist (just like literal rebirth which is impossible) and cannot be the cause of anything.
you know,muslim call non-muslim Kafir,when i use to be a muslim,i use to think,how bad could someone feel when you call him that?,ok,they are not muslim,but at least they have emotion's,muslim think that there is a heaven where there are 72 virgin,i say even christian treat human as human, although they might be contradiction in the bible,but they treat human well,and respect life
Creanisist,Chapter 1,Verses
1.In the beginning Man created god in his image
2.man made heaven,man made land,
3.than man thought,what next?
4.and man made beauty in heaven,
5. haven't you seen,then which mercy of man will you deny?
6.then man made 72 virgin's,in haven,so that you may do whatever you want,and forget god,and be busy with them.
7.which mercy of man will you deny?
8. haven't you seen that how man made god?,
9.with the all power of man,we made and we die,and think of heaven.
10.but thou are fool to believe in a god.
was it good?
Contradiction in the bible and koran,lol,
I doubt you looked at them. The videos don’t have any miracles in them, but something that cannot be explained with normal logic. There is something going on that is inexplainable. That is all you have to admit. But you can’t. Because if you make that necessary concession your entire faith in materialism falls appart. Like a Muslim you are simply incapable of accepting that your beleif system is based on false premises, lies and self deception. You are a man of faith and faith blinds. You have closed the door of learning. You have closed the shutters of your mind. Not a ray of truth can enter in your brain.
Any person with fairness will admist that the prophecies of Mother Shipton are not insignificant and do not have a prosaic explenation. What I quoted is just a token. As I said the readings of Edgar Casey are even more astonishing.
Any fair minded person will adimt that the child’s knowledge about the pilot who had died 60 years earlier, his knowwlege of the planes and the name of friend of that pilot who had died in the war are inexplicable. But not you. YOu can’t admit any of that. YOu are a man of strong certitude.
I also sent you linkd to another video that also has very strange cases that would make any fair minded person to be at least skeptical about reincarnation. But you did not look at them. YOu have no use for any knowlege that defies your beleif. Your strong faith has totally blinded you. For heaven’s sake, don’t cheapen the word enlightened when you have no understanding of it.
I use to be a Muslim,but now I am "FAITH FREEDOM",Muhammad's mind was playing trick on him,and he thought,that so god revealed a book,lol,
Because the existence of such a being do not tell us anything about reality and is at best of academic interest. Yes you right is up to me whether i would want to adopt gods purpose and morality or not and i would be fully justified in doing that or perhaps even to convice him to adopt my own.
Just say one,u dont belive in islam,and i agree with u,thats it,but if u think that everything is here because of a god,so…i dont think so there is something or an imaginary freind,lol
"A person who refuses even to look at the evidence that he is presented becuase already beleives there is nothing he can learn from them, is not a skeptic or enlightened." I have looked at it and saw nothing miraclous in it just like i see nothing miraclous in the bible or koran, but maybe i missed something or you know something i don`t in which case share your evidence in clear language so even i can understand it.
"That is painful. I know how difficult it can be to renounce one's faith. Been there, done that! I will never again give in to certainty and faith. You on the other hand, are immersed in it." Don`t confuse certainty with faith, faith is believing in something without evidence or proof i claim i have proof and know with certanty that God does not exist and their is no life after death, if you ask i will give you proofs for those assertions if you refute my proofs in a logical way i will admit i was wrong and admit at least a possiblty that those things could be true. But i ask the same courtesy of you if you cannot refute my proofs will you admit you was wrong? But sinse we are on the subject of faith can you tell me is your belief something can come from nothing, is that logical, is it even possible?
Okay so where is the miracle in these verse can you tell me what it is?
"Carriages without horses shall go,
And accidents fill the world with woe.
Around the world thoughts shall fly
In the twinkling of an eye. [Telephone, radio, television and the internet]
And water shall great wonders do,
How strange, and yet it shall come true. [Hydroelectric power]
Through hills man shall ride,
And no horse be at his side.
Under water men shall walk,
Shall ride, shall sleep, shall talk.
In the air men shall be seen,
In white, in black, in green;
Iron in the water shall float,
As easily as a wooden boat.
For in those wondrous far off days,
the women shall adopt a craze
to dress like men, and trousers wear
and to cut off their locks of hair.
They'll ride astride with brazen brow,
as witches do on broomsticks now. [bicycle]"
Ali Sina.
That poem is just good. Thank you for sharing.
His arugment is logical, a little kid says something about planes or that he was a fighter jet that was shot down by the japanese and the only possiblity is he must have lived before? If reincarnation is true then where are the new souls coming (as more are born than die) also what is left of the self by the time the soul gets to the new life (let alone 10, 20 or 1 million lives ago)? Also did you have life before you was born? The answer is no so why then is their life after death? Don`t comeback with insults and claims i am a "man of faith" all of these questions are logical and need answers.
"A quality of an enlightened person is skepticism. A persopn who is so self assured, cannot be called enlightened.
Bertrand Russel wrote: “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” First of all you seem to believe certainty is impossible, this is a absurd statement, are you certain, certainty is impossible? Because if you are that is something you are certain of (as well being a self refuting statement), and if certanty is possible (which it must be) then why you critise me for being certain? And yes believing something is possible when it isn`t is also irrational. Also don`t pull your ad hominem on me and start insulting me instead of dealing with my arugment. You say at least a few of those verses are miraculously well bring forward those one`s and we can discuss them.
The evidence is not so convincing as you think:
David Berlinski—Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyxUwaq00Rc
"When I say doubt everything, I really mean it."
In school we taught not to believe everything you read. Today's kids seem to have lost that concept and go along with a group-think that goes along with what makes them socially acceptable to their friends and pays no attention to a fact-based analysis.
Thanks for sharing that interesting poem.
The dean of a Chemistry Dept once explained that the pursuit of knowledge is like commencing a hike up a tall mountain. At the beginning the hike looks easy because the bulk of the mountain's mass is hidden from view by the lower slopes. But the higher you get, the more of the mountain you are able to see and realize how much further there is to go. Similarly in learning, the more you learn, the more you realize how much you don't know. Hence even Einstein said that we are like children in a library looking at books we cannot understand.
Who claims being everything is a requisite factor in the definition of God? What is wrong with God being less than everything. You are not part of God. You have the free will to do whatever you want regardless of what a God may or may not want of you.
I quoted two dozens of verses. You picked the one that in your view is less evident. Forget that one. How do you explain the rest? One, two, or three could be coincidence, but when we have so many coincidences, we have to look into some other explenation. Edgar Casey’s readings are even more astonishing.
But of course to admit that you have to demolish your entire faith in materialism. That is painful. I know how difficult it can be to renounce one’s faith. Been there, done that! I will never again give in to certainty and faith. You on the other hand, are immersed in it. Perhaps one day you were religious and today you are a materialist. It’s all the same. You are still a religious person. Religious thinking is based on faith. This faith can be theistic or atheistic. Skepticism is an entirely different thing. You are not even close. A person who refuses even to look at the evidence that he is presented becuase already beleives there is nothing he can learn from them, is not a skeptic or enlightened.
So the narrative goes. Where's the evidence? People in the post-modern period have forgotten how to do fact-based studies and just parrot whatever their friends are saying.
TV programs claiming to be scientific investigations of the paranormal are just exploitation shows.
@agracean evolution is 100% true iam a Hindu but i believe in evolution and i still believe in god but not as per your concept of god mine is different concept about god now coming to evolution just answer my simple question why is gentic material(deoxy ribo nucleic acid) same from bacteria to human being xpect from retrovirous molecular evidence shows 100% evolution has happened and we are still evolving
“These are like the verses muslims bring up to prove all “scientific miracles” of the koran”
Really? In that case you and I have nothing more to talk about. I expect a little fairness in my opponent. If there is none, I am not interested to talk.
BTW you may want to change your user name. A quality of an enlightened person is skepticism. A persopn who is so self assured, cannot be called enlightened.
Bertrand Russel wrote: “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”
gr8 article by Dr ali sina but i want to know abt another theory by chineese scientist i mean how is it possible for time to space and vice verse its simply amazing and about big bang in quran i dont know abt the christian or other mythology but this idea of earth and heaven were once joined may come from the fact that if we see at a far place we observe the earth and sky are touching each other even people at earlier times thought of earth to be flat and hence may have thought that earth may joined with sky previously but then seprated this gives the feeling that muhammad also thought earth to be flat and sky to be a dome
In this video the presenter makes his own argument against reincarnation. It could be a logical argument, but it does not answer the questions raised in the videos I asked you to watch and you didn’t. Obviously you have made your mind, have reached the shore of certainty and have no use for any evidence that may threaten that certainty. You are a man of faith. I am not. When I say doubt everything, I really mean it.
A few years ago I wrote an article against reincarnation. One Indian reader asked me to look into it and weigh the evidence. I did. Since then my certainty was changed to skepticism.
No quotes just thought's,I just found myself that this works,that's it science works hard to find the truth,and scunce does find,thats how life is,but for religion people there is nothing to find,there is a god who knows all,if we could follow religions we could be very back by now,
Ok,so the story of a god goes like this,in older times people were sad to see their relatives die,they themselves were in fear that when they die,they will get nothing,so they created heaven,with the best pleasure they wanted in this life,and mostly poor people due to lack of money,they thought that when they die,they will go somewhere where they will find garden,food{spotless virgins,lol)and many more,just because they could live fully in this world they thought this god will help them,people often say that god is the creator and not the creation,unlike human's,so that would mean,god created logic,god is illogical,he created existence and his doesn't exist?,simple use logic,
"Thoughts are waves and waves are particles that are goverened by quantum physics where the Newtonian law of cause and effect does not rule." I am afraid this is not the case these thoughts and particles still need a cause, nothing is "special" or seperate from cause and effect please read this http://members.optushome.com.au/davidquinn000/Wis…
"In the world of quantum physics uncertainty rules and time is overruled. One can see things of past and future." But the future is already written or to that is say it is made by causes. Or at the very least for an event to occur it needs a cause that is a logical fact you can`t get around that not even with your mystical quantum physics.
"I don't want to deviate from the objective of this site." Isn`t the ultimate objective of this site the truth and bringing enlightement to the muslim world? I don`t see how getting someone out of just one lie is helpful islam is just one delusion amoung countless others and all delusions are to some extent harmful.
"Unless these verses were written in the later part of the 20th century, they are prophetic ." These are like the verses muslims bring up to prove all "scientific miracles" of the koran, they are just vague sayings that could be talking about anything like for example "And England shall admit a Jew,
Do you think this strange? But it is true!
The Jew that once was led in scorn,
Shall of a Christian then be born. [In 1948 England was instrumental in the creation of Israel]" How did they get from that did from that to Israel? If it said in clear language in the year 1948 the jewish state shall be born with the help of the british empire then you would have a point but it says no such thing.
These stories are inttereprated by the parents and then by the researchers, "reincarnation" is just cause and effect we are reborn in any moment of our life everything goes into everything else like buddha said a parent can have many children or a candle can light many others. But believers in literal rebirth believe that each individual possess a unique stream of consciousness this is baloney see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah762oIjEvM&li…
“That is something i deny with certainty.”
I don’t deny anything with certainty, unless the evidence is overwhelming. Lack of evidence is not enough to deny anything. There is enough evidence to remain skeptic and not reject afterlife with certainty.
See this video in two parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EWwzFwUOxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5965wcH2Kx0&feature=related
You can also watch this video that comes in three parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRTBoRFTczI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scOQ7alpMBg&feature=endscreen&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge0-WCom0Ls&feature=fvwp&NR=1
Mother Shipton is said to have been born in the 16th century. Here are some of verses attribute to her. Charles Hindley, 1862, claimed that these verses were taken from Richard Head’s 1684 book, The Life and Death of Mother Shipton.
Carriages without horses shall go,
And accidents fill the world with woe.
Around the world thoughts shall fly
In the twinkling of an eye. [Telephone, radio, television and the internet]
And water shall great wonders do,
How strange, and yet it shall come true. [Hydroelectric power]
Through hills man shall ride,
And no horse be at his side.
Under water men shall walk,
Shall ride, shall sleep, shall talk.
In the air men shall be seen,
In white, in black, in green;
Iron in the water shall float,
As easily as a wooden boat.
For in those wondrous far off days,
the women shall adopt a craze
to dress like men, and trousers wear
and to cut off their locks of hair.
They’ll ride astride with brazen brow,
as witches do on broomsticks now. [bicycle]
And roaring monsters with men atop,
does seem to eat the verdent crop. [harvester]
And men shall fly as birds do now,
and give away the horse and plow.
They’ll be a sign for all to see
be sure that it will certain be.
Then love shall die and marriage cease
and nations wane as babes decrease. [Population decline in Europe]
And wives shall fondle cats and dogs
and men live much the same as hogs. [couch potatoes, watching TV and munching]
Gold shall be found and shown
In a land that’s now not known. [California in the Gold Rush]
And England shall admit a Jew,
Do you think this strange? But it is true!
The Jew that once was led in scorn,
Shall of a Christian then be born. [In 1948 England was instrumental in the creation of Israel]
All England’s sons that plough the land
Shall oft be seen with Book in hand
The poor shall now great wisdom know
When north shall thus divide the south [This may allude to the divide between Northern and Southern hemispheres (Rich and poor nations)]
An eagle build in lion’s mouth
Then tax and blood and cruel war
Shall come to every humble door. [America, (the eagle) was born from mouth of England (the lion)].
Unless these verses were written in the later part of the 20th century, they are prophetic . But they date back to at least 17th century. Even if Head or Hindley has made them up, they are still prophetic
Do your own research. Just Google Mother Shipton, Edgar Casey and Nostradamus and read a few articles. There are several articles by those who believe these persons were psychic and those who deny it. The evince is convincing. The deniers are denying the obvious because they are defnding their 19th century atomic (materialistic) world view. They defend their “religion” and they talk nonsense just as Muslims talk nonsense.
There is nothing hocuspocus about psychic power. Thoughts are waves and waves are particles that are goverened by quantum physics where the Newtonian law of cause and effect does not rule. In the world of quanta, uncertainty rules and time is overruled. One can see things of past and future. And if only a few humans can do it, the potential is there for all humans.
This topic is beyond the scope of this site. If interested, please do your research. Facts are there for those who care about facts. If all you care is to argue, I am not interested. I don’t want to deviate from the objective of this site.
"I believe in telepathy and psychic power. Not everyone has that ability, but those few who have done it prove that such a power exists." If they have proved it then bring these proofs the burden of the proof lies with the one making the claim. "Anyone who denies these people had psychic power is really not being fair minded." Not really unless they have no proof for their claim that psychic ablity does not exist (if that is their claim, denying the possiblity of psychic ablity is different from denying the certainty).
"However, I see no clear evidence for spirits and ghosts. They could exist but I reserve the right not to believe until I see an evidence myself." Could they, is the sprit or afterlife or literal rebirth even possible? That is something i deny with certainty.
As for ghosts, there has been many claims, and people have seen shadowy beings, heard voices and many of them are sincere. The problem is that there has never been a single verifiable evidence. When it comes to ghosts I am agnostic. I don’t deny it but as long as there is no evidence of it, I also don’t accept it.
I also saw jinn. I was about nine years old and we lived in a village. Like all village kids I had worms and was prone to hallucination. I show it to my mother and she took me to it and I saw there was no jinn. It was just branches and leaves. My mind played a trick on me. So give me something solid about the existance of ghosts that does not involve hallucination.
I also don’t deny many so called paranormal experiences. I believe in telepathy and psychic power. Not everyone has that ability, but those few who have done it prove that such a power exists. Edward Casey, Nostradamus and Mother Shipton are a few examples. Anyone who denies these people had psychic power is really not being fair minded. By denying facts they put themselves in the same rank of Muslims. However, I see no clear evidence for spirits and ghosts. They could exist but I reserve the right not to believe until I see an evidence myself.
Read this about Cause and effect http://members.optushome.com.au/davidquinn000/Wis…
As for saying God is the world is like saying you are your parents. That is true was you not once nothing put a sperm cell and a egg in your mother`s ovaries? Where we put boundaries between things and imagine them as "existing" (as something seperate) this is nothing but a mental construct. To make one example, at what point exactly does a human being come into existence? At the moment when the male sperm penetrates the female egg? When the conceptus is formed? A month after conception? The moment of birth? No matter where we decide to draw the line, it will always be an arbitrary decision on our parts. It will always be a construct of consciousness that we mentally project onto the proceedings. In reality, there is only a continuum. The human never really comes into existence at all – except as an illusion.
Quoting your Guru Stephen Hawking. With scientific theory`s we believe in them tentatively until some evidence comes in that would overthrow our current beliefs. For example i believe with 99% certainty (based on "the best evidence we have") that the earth is round, but i can`t be 100% sure that tommorow some new data will come in that will overthrow that. This is how science works, it has nothing to do with (absolute) truth and those that think it does have no clue what science is.
Religion is based on faith,but Science is based on reason and observation,science will win because it works
these things are just negative energy in state of positive,
"You also have a non-sequetur because being everywhere is not a prerequisite for creating the universe." Well if "before" the universe was created the only thing that existed was God then he would be everywhere (and everything)as would the universe sinse we are not seperate from what we create. If he wasn`t everywhere it means something existed beside him, in which case how can he be said to be the creator of the universe?
"Omnipresent is not a requisite qualification for being God either." Well if you want to define God as finite then yes it`s not. But then any finite thing could be labeled as "God".
Gid is the world and the world is God,it's like saying ur parents and ur parents are you,
We do share consciousness everything is connected by cause and effect, it is this delusion -the delusion of seperation- that is the fundamental delusion about reality. Is what we create real seperate or "special", would i be writing this if you didn`t write your own message, would this site exist if no one ever heard of muhammed? Obviously not. Futhermore i would be a co-creator with God if what you said was true, something which contridicts the basic premise of monotheism – that their is only one God.
No. You do not share consciousness with others. You create what you create and I create what I create. You are a unique individual and the products of your mind are yours. Being yours, however, does not mean that he is not aware of what your wrote, or that you didn't get some inspiration to help you with your thoughts.
You also have a non-sequetur because being everywhere is not a prerequisite for creating the universe. Omnipresent is not a requisite qualification for being God either.
"I would say that what is special is having progressed to the point of having sufficient intelligence, power and knowledge to create a universe as easily as we create automobiles" I see nothing special about this, because their is nothing "special" about our universe just like their is nothing "special" about automobiles. If God is perfect and created the universe and everything in it, he must be everywhere and everywhen you can`t get around this. For example if God created the universe it also means he created this message (sinse i am part of this universe and i created this message) this is a fact. If on the other hand God didn`t create this message and may not even know about it this means he is not all-knowing (Omniscience) nor could he be omnipresent. Such a being cannot be perfect and cannot therefore be God nor can any other finite thing.
I would say that what is special is having progressed to the point of having sufficient intelligence, power and knowledge to create a universe as easily as we create automobiles and having progressed sufficiently to overcome evil and perfect himself. The three branches of philosophy are metaphysics, ethics, and aesthetics. A God should be the pinnacle of perfection in all three areas. That concept is not so hard to understand. We award Master's degrees to people who have completed an accredited program because they are considered to have mastered an area of expertise, though, of course, upon graduation, they are really only ready to begin becoming real experts, and mortal humans cannot achieve perfection in the space of a lifetime.
Ther is no such beings as jinns but spirits of human, animals or from the satanic sources. These spirits dwell in haunted houses, trees, Caves, jungles, lakes, seas, etc. Some will do harm to us when we trample into their domains. Some can even attach to human to do evil, or to commit suicide for the man who was attached.. There are volumes of documented books on them for u to read if u want to know more. U can find stories in the WWW too.
In the USA n other advanced countries there are paranormal investigators in every city. The prominent members among them are the spiritualists who have the sixth sense to feel the presence of spirits n talk to them. Cats, dogs, n horses can see these spirits too.
I don`t see how this is a fallcy God is either everything or he is less than everything. However one defines "God" it falls into 1 of those 2 categories.
"God doesn't have to be everything. He just as to be powerful enough to create things the same way we make cars and things." But the question here that has to be asked is, what is special about him? The answer to that is nothing, as such an entity would suffer all the limitations of all finite beings. He could be good or evil (or a combination),rational or irrational, truthful or untruthful and so on.
Well, that's a kind of straw man fallacy of limiting the definition of God to a certain parameter.
God doesn't have to be everything. He just as to be powerful enough to create things the same way we make cars and things.
Right. Anybody who believes this barbaric desert ideology has made a very Big Blunder indeed!
Well you can`t create everything because God is either less than everything or is everything.
Muslims have a Big Blunder (and not a Big Bang) theory!!!
God is generally accepted in concept as the one who created everything rather than being everything. Some philosophies ascribe to the concept that God is in everything.
Very well said.
The inability to imagine no space and time is a failure of imagination rather than proof of concept. It's like we are fish that have been swimming in an ocean of water and cannot imagine such a concept as dry land where there is no water. The concept is not all that difficult to imagine. It's a common enough concept in science fiction to journey to a place where there is no time and all places and events of past, present and future are in front of you to view. It's like each universe is an egg and you are in a place looking at a basket of eggs.
Einstein is said to have had an IQ such that only a handful of people in the world understand everything he taught. Similarly in the world of literature, Goethe's IQ was estimated at 240 and it is said that only a handful of people in the world understand everything he was saying, especially in Faust II. Science has similarly evolved. First is was Newtonian physics. Then it was Relativity. There is also quantum physics, the Big Bang, and now, as this article explains, a new theory has come along to supercede the Big Bang. As you said above, science is constantly evolving. So the math right now supports no time and space before the Big Bang. That concept may be improved of superceded, but people like you and I, while educated and well-informed, are not likely to be in a position to be able to get into the discussion with those who are on the frontiers of research without investing a considerable amount of study.
But science is faith as well, sinse all scientific theories are inherently uncertain. New data could come in tommorow and overturn the big bang theory. This is something I find dishonest about the scientific enterprise and the believers in Scientific materalism which has as its 2 pillars of faith (so to speak) ideas that contridict each other.
1)Their is no Absolute truth.
2)Science is the only truth.
God is the world.
Then the math is wrong, the fact that we can conceive of a chain of Big Bangs means that time did exist before the Big Bang. Our conceiving of time brings time into existence. Time is a finite thing and every finite thing needs a cause – even if that cause is us.
Religion is like a person who is blind walking on a highway,these need's faith,but Science need's reason.
OK,so why would God create Jinn?these supernatural stuff don't exist,people want to think they are not isolated when they die,but that's the true,heaven and hell are for people,who are simple afraid of the dark,ok,so why does the religion book say that human will go to heaven,and why not animal's?,God could not create the Universe because there was not TIME before the big bang,so there is no time for a God to do anything,now you can quote that Time doesn't matter to God,but in bible and Qur'an its written,Bible-God created everything in 7 day's,Quran-you 1000 year's is 1 day to God?,that simple say's that time does matter to God,but what if there was no time,so what would be ? because there was not time before the universe was made
Yes,that's it,"God created everything,but infect he is not created,mean's he doesn't exist,God creates the material world but he is not part of the world.
The latest math indicates that there was no time or space before the Big Bang.
The problem is that there are many witnesses claiming not only about jinn but ghost and more importantly, other cultural or faith related supernatural being. Interestingly, this doesn't cross faith borders.
Educated people have experiences, but none of them claim to have seen jinns. Or even if they do they use the principle of occam`s razor, what is more likely you saw a jinn or you had a hallucination?
"Before this limited time nothing existed" Codswallob, from nothing, nothing comes.
"if time didn't exist before the Big Bang" Time did exist before the big bang because you can conceive of it in your mind.
"if God created everything" God cannot have created everything because God is everything.
You have a fallacy here. You are assuming God would be a product of the universe when the universe is a product of God.
Educated people also see them. But they seek rational answers to explain their observation.
I have seen people who say we have seen the Jinn or something supernatural they also claim to see ,you know,but have u notice something ,the who people who see these are stupid and weirdo why don't educated people not see them?
"God",the word people often use in their every day life,in their pain,in their joy,and so on.,what is the meaning of God?
God is a supernatural being who has created everthing that we know,see,hear,fell,smell,even emotoin's and thought's,everything mean's everything,so what does this thing have to do with our live's,well simply we pray and he hear's,now let's use logical method to see the nature of "God".
1.If you ask some knowlegeble religious person,that "where did God come from?",He say's he was always there,kind of funny,for a "God" who was always there,according to Scientific researches we come to know that the Universe is 13.7 billion year's old.Before this limited time nothing existed,everything we see in mass,time,speed,light etc. came after the Big Bang.You must be thinking(if you don't know)what's a big bang,well,The Big Bang theory is prevailing cosmological model that explain's the early development of the Universe.According to the big bang theory,the Universe was once in extrmely hot and dense state which expanded rapidly.This rapid expansion cause the young Universe to cool and resulted in it's present continously expanding state,so there was a time,better to say state when there was nothing,and that was "before the Big Bang",So how was there a God who made the Universe in no time?,if time didn't exist before the Big Bang,so how come God create the Universe?.Ok let's say that there was a God,and somehow he/she created the Universe,so here is the other Question that rise,Let's think a man want's to make a hill,he goes to a flat piece of land and start's digging,he dig's and dig's untill he completet's a hill,so let us think that the hight of the hill is 20 feet,while he has also made a hill,at the same time he made a hole(ofcourse on the gound),so if we take all the sand that made up the hill and put it back where it came from(ground),so what has the man done?,that's also with the theory of God,if God created everything and then everthing has to perish,what has God done?.I belive that if you look closer to the Universe you can know what's really going on,and the systemitic design of the Universe is easily Understood by Human mind,and then people say that God is not like one of us,Ok,let's say so why is the Universe understandable to Human?,the Earth and the planet's in our solar system orbit the Sun,was that hard to understand?,Ok if God is more that mean's,we exist so what about God?,we live what about God,we feel emotion's,what about God,that simply illogical,that would Easy prove that God is not there where he is suppose to be,so where is he?,simple no where,or everywhere,this thought's are easily understood by Human,so why is God not so complex,God look's like to be a normal person,who feel's the everyday life,this can be understood by everyday people,who know what is what.Maybe God is not like we think,he's not like a human,ok?so that God actully create's but not created,so if God created why did God create the Universe before 13.7 billion year's ago and not before that,did God come to understand it later?,but I thought that God is not like a human,so???,GOT IT,God was maybe completing his college studies,wait a minute,you just said God was not like one of us,so how come he use to study?…See simple inlogical,argument,the thought of even God rises many question which lead's to illogical argument's and answer,where one person of faith can lose his temper.So you simple want to ask me what I mean by my answer and what's the ulitmatly answerable question that can lead us to know that how the Universe come into being.I will write more article's.
With a judge as uninformed as you calling it a failure, that automatically means he succeeded.
lol at the way you're tryna deny the big bang in the Qur'an
haha mate you fail
Dear Ali,
Recently searching for speeches of Mr Christopher Hitchens, I stumbled upon youtube videos of Dr Zakir Naik. I would like to tell you a little about me. I am an Indian, Hindu (I don't have much time to practice it), a graduate in science and will be 43 on January 1st 2012. I am pretty much a mainstream fellow who keep in touch with the happenings around. But I must confess that I never heard about Dr Zakir Naik before. I have a lot of Muslim friends and strangely they haven’t heard of him either. I have lived in a Muslim’s house as a tenant with a Muslim roommate for almost 10 years. I never sensed anything fundamentally different in them from Hindus other than their marriage system which is so superficial and just a contract (for me marriage is spiritual and seeing that the marriage works with understanding and compromise is my duty and my wife does feel the same way). Muslims in India conducted huge rallies against terrorism in Islam in major cities of India.
There are two types of Muslims in India. Those who live along with others in the mainstream, you can find them everywhere and every sphere of the society. They don't carry their religion on them. The second type is those who live in Muslim dominated areas of different cities. Most of them are poor; their sense of security comes from their religion due to their lack of education. Dr Zakir Naik draws his fans from the second type of Muslims. Clearly Dr Zakir Naik is a dangerous man for both Muslims and non-Muslims equally. In spite of having a lot of friends who are Muslims and being a fan of many Muslims like Dr APJ Abdul Kalam (our ex-president) and A R Rahman, Dr Zakir Husain's views on Islam, on Osama, on terrorism and the huge crowd supporting him made me feel uneasy to say the least.
If he can make me uneasy just think what a practicing Hindu may feel, worst what a fanatic Hindu may feel. I came to know some of the terrorists arrested recently in India were influenced by his speeches, that is only one side of the coin. This fellow Zakir can easily be the cause for riots between Hindus and Muslims, and that will be very bad to both communities more so Muslims because the right wing Hindu parties can take advantage of the situation. For the first time through his speeches (on youtube) I came to know about Islam (at least his version of Islam), what a stupid and dangerous religion (hope my Muslim friends don't read this, you see I don't want to hurt them). Being a fan (you can call a disciple) of Dr APJ Abdul Kalam, I don't agree with you when you say "You never know when a Muslim wants to deepen his iman (faith)" if it means they become someone like Muhammad.
Hope Indian Muslims read your articles and adhere to more liberal loving Muslim sects (I came to there are some 72 sects in India).
"Islam and the Big Bong Theory "
[youtube fiikmorh_xk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiikmorh_xk youtube]
Bing Bang ! The whole universe was created in one vastness of space n time. All in one n later one in all could be true because all originally came from one source. Right ?
Why quran did not mention about planets around the sun or formula for gravity?
Dabi daba doo !!!!
qran is revaled 1400 years ago how mohamed realy know about big bang…and about deep oceans or even about cells even he know everything is created from water..my question is in which labourtry prophet research…
لا اله الا الله محمد رسو…
Nice!
thanks – do u have a link to the article ?
Dr. Sina wrote an article exposing the Quran's assertion that the World is flat. Good read.
What countries where these? Go to japan, china, russia, iran, turkey, korea, and many other places and see how many people speak english (and when i say english i mean good english). Why should the native speaker of english have a massive advantage over the non-native? The time it takes to get to a mastery level in a language is a minimum of 10,000 hours.
I had no idea how universal English is until I started to travel. People from all over the world cannot speak each other's languages, but they communicate in English. I even met an engaged couple that didn't know each other's languages, but spoke English together.
"english has the advantage of having very simpel grammar and borrowings from both roman,german and scandinavian." English grammer is not simple here is an example invisible, unpleasant now there are two forms you have to memorise english could simply have one like, unvisible and unpleasant. Another example see the similarities between these words tooth/dentist with French dent/dentiste, German Zahn/Zahnarzt. I could make a lot of examples like these but i think you get the point.
"that doesnt change the fact that english is a west/north germanic language.. not a roman language.." Just becuse english is in the same family (or rather sub-family) as danish it does not have to follow it just like it does not have to follow french or german (or any other language).
"english is the number 1 language… or the lingua franca of europe/the world and always will be.." This is not true. You say the french, spanish and italians don`t want to speak german you forget they don`t speak english either. Go to france and try to speak in english to the frenchman and see what happens. In the 1930`s french was the world language where is french now? Also how many chinese, russians, afrikans and south amerikans speak english?
Nouns with gender was the big killer in German for me.
Well, that plus the old script if you want to do serious research!
Yes. All very interesting idiosyncrasies and food for thought.
german will never be "the next big language" in europe.. english has allready won this battle.. german is to complicated and advanced..
english has the advantage of having very simpel grammar and borrowings from both roman,german and scandinavian..
the french dont wanna speak german, the scandinavian dont wanna speak german, the spanish and the italians also.. english is the number 1 language… or the lingua franca of europe/the world and always will be..
these "others" this survey refers to must be old norse then..
here is my figures.. 30 pct. anglo saxon, 20 pct old norse, 50 pct. french/latin/greek and others..
that doesnt change the fact that english is a west/north germanic language.. not a roman language..
another fun similarity is how english uses "th" words like they,then,there… we call them "soft D´s".. only 3 languages uses this "tongue pronounciation"..
English,danish and icelandic (closest to old norse)..
for instance "smith" in english is "smed" in danish.. but is pronounced "smeth".. both anglo saxon and old norse used this kind of pronounciation… but today modern german,dutch,swedish and norwegian dont.. only the others.. weird dont you think??
yes.. there is no doubt that german is the mother of all germanic languages.. but modern german has evolved in a very different direction than its original proto germanic ancestor..
the syntax and flow in english is not german.. its scandinavian.. especially the syntax of shakespeare english is almost 100 pct. scandinavian..
"where are thou"=hvor er du"… "I shall come to you"=Jeg skal komme til du (dig)
another thing which is funny..
in danish we have many dialects.. especially the jute dialect..
for instance..
"knight"… really means "boy" or "young man".. in jute if you wanna say.. "come here boy".. you say.. "kom her knight"… in normal danish its knægt (knaegt)
the danish word for knight is "ridder".. or if just a horse rider.. then a "rytter".. on the island of bornholm they have a place called "rytterknægten" and is refered to a young soldier of the king..
Hey freeman (that name is an oxymoron in your case, isn't it?), I am sure Mr. Sina is pleased to be of such great help to make you see the truth in Islam. Now why don't you do the right thing and tell all the other muslims, both with weak faith and strong, about Ali Sina and encourage them to read his articles. Allah will be very pleased with you for helping strengthen muslims' faith in Islam.
"english has a greater influence today on scandinavian.. than the otherway around" For now maybe but i think german will be the next big language (in europe) in the near future.
"that doesnt however change that the foundation of english is based on words taken from us" So, english has a lot more words from latin and frence than germanic. This is from wikipedia Latin 29% french 29% Germanic 26% Others 16% (here`s the ariticle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_English_wor….
My German 301 professor taught me how to use that kind of thing to expand my German vocabulary, like Dach / thatch.
That together with some familiarity with vowel and consonant shifts really helps when reading material with unfamiliar vocabulary.
off course english is independent from danish/scandinavian.. english has a greater influence today on scandinavian.. than the otherway around.. that doesnt however change that the foundation of english is based on words taken from us.. lets compare some simple everyday words..
they=de/dei
there=der/dere
then=den
that=at
this/these=disse/diese
the=de
therefor=derfor
where are you=hvor er du
I give=jeg giver
hope=håber
find me=find mig
burden=byrde
there are thousands..
He's not implying that something should or shouldn't be. He's just talking about history.
"that doesnt change the fact that words are words" Yes words are words but the meaning of those words has changed a lot. Lets take the word England you say it should be spelt angland, but what you don`t seem to have grasped is that modern english is complety independent from danish. As well english does not care how england is spelt in other languages nor does it have to follow its germanic roots.
anglo saxon IS old english.. later on the normans came (1066) they were old vikings (norman is what the french called the vikings) the men from the north ie. scandinavia and the "danelagen" in england.. (viking juristiction in england)..
the french were tired of getting attacked all the time.. so they made a pact with french aristocrats giving them land and wealth in return for their protection from other vikings..
thats why its called NORMANDY.. in danish NORMANDIET.. diet means DIKE.. a DIKE from norman invaders.. these vikings assimilated to french culture.. and began speaking french.. thats why the normans (old vikings) spoke french.. and brought this to england.. thats mainly why you have all these french words in english.. (also later french aristocrat influence)
off course english is english..like danish is a dialect of german/proto germanic.. it has been developed via the influx of different languages.. that doesnt change the fact that words are words..
if i were to say in english…
"let us see what you have found"
translates to danish
"lad os se hvad du haver (har) fundet"
notice the similarities??
english means "angelish" the land of the angloes.. in danish "anglernes land=angelnland=angelland=england
angleln is the old name for what today is called "slesvig".. and is a region of the german/danish border..
the angloes were mercenaries hired in by the romans.. who didnt have enough troops to protect thir territory in england against the kelts.. and therefor hired in germanic tribes.. soon after the roman empire collapsed.. and the romans withdrew.. the angloes (anglerne) stayed and became the (anglish)
both jutes, angloes, saxons and later vikings.. came
Great article – what i find interesting, that the quraan speaks of earth as [spread] as in ‘FLAT’ !!!
Am re reading the whole book to see if it simply continues with that error !!!
does it ever mention or refer to Earth other than flat ?? so far i haven’t found any reference to Earth being a sphere !!!
Yes english is bascially several languages rolled into one but so what. English is english not german, dutch or danish. So stop saying english should be like danish (which i think is what you are trying to say)becuse english is english not some dialect of danish.
im not talking about WHAT love is.. but about the word.. . LOVE.. off course you cannot say pre promised.. this is due to french influence.. ENGAGED.. and DIVORCED.. =FRENCH.. LOVE=anglo saxon.. TAILOR=french… baker=anglo saxon.. mixing mixing mixing..
Love is an emotion and is difficult to define. Maybe in scandinavian it is a different word. In english you cannot even say prepromised you have to say engaged ,just like you cannot say unmarried you have to say divorced.
He knows the truth, but he is too coward to except it. He knows if he say anything thing or even question the facts from Quran about Mohamed he will taken by the peaceful followers of Islam.
i am thankful to you freeman… my faith in mohmet is getting stronger… do you know what is the REAL big bang in quran???? The BIG BANG in quran is the BANG between mohmet and aisya… hahahahaa…… proficiat freeman… now you know the TRUTH…
i dont know what else to call it.. when 1 word means something else.. from those who invented the word.. to others who use it.. and english has tons of them.. some as a compromise.. others by mistake..
if I said..I LOVE YOU it really means I PROMISE YOU ( ie. myself to you)..
if is said in scandinavian I PROMISE YOU.. translates into JEG LOVER DU (DIG)
to be engaged translates into FORLOVET=PREPROMISED (away by the father)
there are tons..
´
You`re right english is essentially a germanic language with a lot of loan words from (mostly) latin and french. Sky is not misused that is how it has evolved in the english language.
We got a lot of Latin-root duplicate words too, ie, two English words meaning the same thing, because of the Norman occupation.
i think we both know today what SKY means to an english speaking person.. english is filled with misused words.. that today means something else.. english is nothing more than a danish/dutch dialect with tons of french, latin, greek and other loanwords..
for instance.. TIME dont mean TIME.. it means HOUR..
what you are really saying is WHAT HOUR IS IT.. the correct word is
danish=tid
dutch=tijd
german=zeit
the correct word exist in the english vocabulary.. the TIDE is coming in.. in danish its called TIDEVAND=TIMEWATER.. ie. water which comes in at a surden time.. its spelled in danish and pronounced in dutch..
when you say OPEN THE GATE.. you are actually saying.. OPEN THE OPENING.. GATE means OPENING..
PORT really means LARGE DOOR..
LOCK the door.. really means CLOSE THE DOOR… not lock it..
even ENGLAND is spelled wrong.. it should be.. ANGLAND.. ANGELNLAND.. (land of the angloes ie. anglerne)
so you see not only SKY is misused.. evolution of languages you see..
in ALL languages there are only 2 pre copernicus words for what is above us..
HEAVEN and CLOUD.. ALSO in english..
Your thought pretty well sums it up!
Right, but inexperienced Muslims who come here don't know that yet. They are just answering the call to verbal jihad, and coming from a Muslim supremacist culture, it's an alien thought that they might encounter unbelievers who know more than them and are operating in and from a more valid paradigm.
It's just about remnants of historical meanings that survive to our day.
It's hard to say. I'm not that deep into the subject and I only have read the one source.
"If you could reason with Muslims, they wouldn't be Muslims."
As i understand according to tabari.. Hubal (HaBaal) was a late idol brought from messopotamia to the mekkans (mekka=Mahgah=moon place) The god (al-ilah) has been worshipped for a looong time before hubal..
maybe you are right this lilith were his wife.. and the daughters al-lat (sun) al-uzzah (venus) and al-manat (sirius) that whould make sense..
Sky does not just mean cloud. example "airplanes in the sky". Where is the garden? It is in the heavens or sky. Thats why religious people say things like "there up their now looking down on me". "thats why you in english say.. clear SKIES (plural) and not clear SKY (singular)" We say both. Example weather man says the skies are clear tonight or look at that helicopter in the sky.
That trick only works on gullible audience.
People who listen or read some article and without giving any reason and logic to disagree with it. , give comments like" by reading this my faith just became stronger" are pathetic and desperate.
Do you see any reasoning behind his comment "Mr. Sina your thoughts are immature and your reasons are childish"????
Smoke and mirrors!
What kind of thinking is that?
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My post is saying that Hubal is Allah, and al-Uzza is the daughter.
Well, I see what you are saying. You are making Allah feminine where my source reads a masculine Allah with a wife, Lilith.
Interesting about Friday. Wikipedia has an article on a proto-Indo-European religion that is a common ancestor to Brahmanism/Hinduism, Greek/Roman mythology and Germanic/Norse mythology.
dear john..
i disagree with this theory.. according to yoel natan.. the kaaba was an old venus altar.. for worship of al-lah (moon god) and al-uzzah (fertillity godess) ie. venus the star in the islamic symbol.. (take a look at the kaaba from above.. hatim wall=crescent moon and next to it.. al-uzzah.. =kaaba..
al-lat is the feminine form of al-lah.. she was the sun godess.. thats why in arabic to this day.. the sun is feminine and the moon is maskuline..
you are right that al-manat was a fate godess.. and maybe its star was sirius..
the pagan believed al-uzzah lived inside the black rock.. hence its vulva shaped entrance in silver.. she gave fertillity and sexual strenght.. when circumambulating around it..
she was worshipped on fridays.. (the day of venus)
funny enought.. friday="frejas day" from nordic mythology was also a fertillity godess.. weird right??
paradise/heaven has nothing to do with the word SKY.. the concept of paradise being like a garden predates the abrahamic faiths.. they just copied this perception from earlier mythologies.. when you in english say.. IM GOING TO HEAVEN.. it means you are going to THE GARDEN.. based on a ptolomeic world view.. when the ignorants thought that the black/blueness above us was actually a solid dome.. and not space.. the people thought back then that 7 solid heavens/gardens were behind this "solid dome"..
SKY just means cloud.. its is not a laymans term for heaven..
when the vikings came to england.. they brought their word for clouds.. namely SKY.. and when the anglo saxon mercenaries came to england they brought their word.. namely CLOUD (klout).. both words survived.. even though they mean the same..
thats why you in english say.. clear SKIES (plural) and not clear SKY (singular)
He just hoped that if he marked the article as debunked that none of the Muslims visiting the site would read it since it was already debunked.
Seraj,
Article debunked? You’re debunked.
Look, just ask your buddies to debate Sina, okay? And Bassam Zawadi and the guys that made up the 9/11 hoax stories don’t count. And also around 6 or 7 guys at islamic-awareness.com that wrote the article about there were neither Jews nor Christians in Hejaz during Muhammad’s time. Despite the Quranic proof and countless Hadith narrations that stated otherwise. They would sell their own mothers defending the lies to make Islam believable.
No make sense, Ese…
We, Proud Kafirs only understand hard facts, reason and logics.
PS: It is not Islamophobia when Islam is really trying to kill you.
Oh good! Another immature Muslim who does not want to accept the facts!
By the way, your name should be slave of Allah, not freeman.
Wake up and set yourself free!
I am thankful to Mr.Ali sina, Earlier I was having weak faith in quran and Muhammad (S.A.W) but after visiting the site Faithfreedom.org I am convinced that Islam is the truth and verily Mr.Sina has proved it but showing enimity and using the concept of logic and reasoning.Well Mr.Sina your thoughts are immature and your reasons are childish.That is why you are fearful to come in public because I beleive you are not a single man rather Mr.Sina doesnot exist..
I agree. They are really not worth reading, and I shouldn't have wasted as much time as I did reading them or responding to them.
This is all very interesting to me as my BA is also in Literaturwissenschaft. It's been a long time, so I don't read German very well anymore or speak at all.
In Biography of the Prophet Muhammad, by Ibn Abi Sarh and vetted by Ali Sina, it explains that Ka'ba was a shrine of Hubal, moon god of the Moabites, or Baal in the Bible. They referred to him by his title, Allah, rather than his name. His wife was Lilith, and they had three daughters, Allat [War Goddess], al-'Uzzah [Sacrifice Goddess] and al Manat [Fate Goddess]. Allat was portrayed as the moon, Uzza as the planet Venus and al Manat as the star Sirius.
Ali Sina has written another article on the water. It may be posted at FaithFreedom.org rather than here.
The truth is that the Big Bang and the theory of evolution are all nonsense. Those human beings who concorted them were born so many years later than any ancient civilization and they have absolutely no idea with regard to this matter at all. Obviously, they are spouting nonsense without any proof at all. From here, you should know that the speculations from the above scientist from Taiwan cannot be trusted
Dear Dr Ali Sina
You said, "The universe is estimated to be 13.7 billion years old. The Earth is only 4.5 billion years old. The first micro-organisms appeared 3.5 billion years ago. Although soft bodied creatures have appeared 3 billion years ago, the oldest animal fossil found is only 600 million years old. And we are just talking about “multi-celled” organisms such as sponge-like animals, cnidarians, and worms. The dinosaurs appeared in the Jurassic period, approximately 200 million years ago and became extinct over 60 million years ago. It is in these 60 million years that all the modern animals, birds and mammals have evolved."
This is also a lie concorted by some scientists based on their scientific imagination. How could you believe in all these unsubstantiated lies? Do you think that you evolved from apes and that your first ancestor is an ape? No wonder so many human beings behaved like apes. Are you one of them?
Dear Dr Ali Sina
We knew that Muhammad lied about the creation account and in fact, the whole Quran is full of lies and more lies that you could ever think of, especially the part about Ibrahim, Ishmael and Mecca, the land of pilgrmmage. Please let the muslims know that Ibrahim has nothing to do with the Kaaba and the city of Mecca at all based on past historical facts.
In english we would probaly call "the garden" paradise not heaven which is basically the same as the word sky.
i would like to ask dr. ali sina if he thinks the kaaba is really an old venus altar (al-uzzah, the star in the islamic symbol) and if he agrees in the theories of mr. yoel natan in his book "moonotheism"..
(you can read it on google books)
great article as usual from ali sina.. he should however include the 3 quranic verses where allah talks about putting a barrier between fresh water (apsu) and tiamat (salt water) to further show the readers how the writer of the quran based its knowledge of the fables of the babyloneans..
the fact that the ignorants back then thought an ocean of fresh water flowed under earth like an iceflake floating on water.. with the saltwater sorrounding earth.. THIS is what the quran talks about.. i see no mention of this in his article..
he could further show this by quoting the last line in the 4 commandment in the bible.. to show that this was also the belief of the writers of genesis..
after this he could also explain what mountains as pegs means.. or mountains standing firm to prevent it from shaking "with us"..
then it would be a perfect article which completely crushes the big bang "miracle"..
you are welcome john..
what is the origin of the english title GOD.. well God is off course derived from germanic GOTT.. in scandinavian GOD is spelled Gud .. The God is spelled GUDEN(danish/norwegian) or GUDAN(swedish).. because the definite article is hung after the word..
like
a house=et hus
the house=huset
if you want to say.. THE thundergod Thor.. in swedish you say.. TordenGUDAN Tor.. (as in one among many)
Gudan is a pagan title.. since many viking names starts with Gud.. like GUDRUN or GUDMOND.. (vikings were polytheists.. not monotheists ie. christians)
in proto germanic the title for a god among many is .. also GUDAN.. and was a title most likely derived from persian KHODA.. brought by aryan immigrants to europe..
when the word of christ came to the germanic speaking people.. they just changed the old pagan title.. gudan.. to Gud.. with capital G.. to define the oneness of the god..
Of course it is more important to know the cultural connotations that the Arabic words are. That doesn't mean we have to read the Quran in Arabic as the Muslims claim, but our understanding of the Quran will be enriched if we learn something about these contexts. For example, the word for beheading which has been whitewashed in English as smite their necks comes from the same Arabic word for chopping trees, so any Arab Muslim knows perfectly well that the Quran teaches beheading, which is why you see so much of it. Similarly any Arab Muslim will know that jihad means war with unbelievers. Nowhere in the Middle East will you see Muslims pushing jihad as yoga like they taqiyyists do in the US.
Thanks for the explanations.
so what does HEAVEN means???
well we can see its an anglo saxon word.. since there is an E and an A next to each other.. at some point in time.. there were great confusion as to when to use E and A.. take for instance in english and danish.. (who both originates from anglo saxon) the word AFTER in english.. and EFTER in danish.. ANGEL in english and ENGEL in danish.. there were so much confusion that in danish we have an extra letter which looks like this.. Æ and æ.. an A and an E put together..
for instance.. the word NEAR in english is NÆR (naer) in danish..
so what does HEAVEN means.. well in old saxon its HEVEN and among the angloes it was HAVEN (heofon)..
HAVEN and HEVEN=HEAVEN.. HAVEN in scandinavian means.. THE GARDEN..
for instance a kindergarden is called a børneHAVE..
for those who dont know what the pre copernicus english words for what is above us means..
sky (old norse)=cloud
cloud (anglo saxon)=cloud
if i were to say in scandinavian.. there are many clouds on the heaven translates into.. Der er mange SKYer på himlen..
so sky and cloud means the same.. and i due to the mixing of languages in the creation of english..
sky dont mean heaven..
"I don't read your comment because they are not smart. When you start writing intelligently I will read your comments and will respond."
Ouch.
Also, there is a chapter called "The Earth was created before Heaven" in Tafsir ibn Kathir dedicated to it. Read that— http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_conte…
This debunks the myth that Qur'an supports Big Bang.
Seraj,
Earth was created billions of years after the Big Bang. Then how can it be a part of the heavens(universe)? Why didn't Allah say that Heavens were a single unit and earth came from it? Why did he assign separate entities for earth and Heavens?
Furthermore, Tafsir ibn Kathir interprets this ayah as:
"Do they not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, i.e. in the beginning they were all one piece, attached to one another and piled up on top of one another, then He separated them from one another, and made the heavens seven and the earth seven, placing the air between the earth and the lowest heaven. Then He caused rain to fall from the sky and vegetation to grow from the earth. "
Doesn't this totally contradict the theory of Big Bang? During Big Bang, were the heavens(universe) and earth separated and air was placed in between lowest heaven and earth? As we know, earth was created billions of years after the Big Bang, then how can Allah neglect the chronology and passage of time in between?
oooh seraj, its even foolish to support the BB theory through Quran.
Main argument still would be as stated by Sina.
"In his fervor to make the Quran look scientific Dr. Naik overlooks the fact that the theory of Big Bang precludes the concept of creation. If the Big Bang is true then the story of the creation and Adam and Eve must be false and vice versa."
So you admit you're not reading my comments? Enough said. 😀
Seraj is just a typical muslim . Don't expect too much….
There is nothing you can do, even with the best reasoning. They are emotionally affected and attached to what their parents and ancestors have cherished for so long that delusion would need more than rational thinking in order to show the veracity of your demonstration. However, if you ask religious zealots the following questions: what are the next scientific discoveries in the Koran or any other so-called sacred books that will amaze us? They will be unable to say anything apart from guessing. Our current knowledge in science would need thousands of Korans to contain it. So if I was religiously motivated, I would try to stick with spiritualty rather than science.
Seraj,
The earth and the heaven are still one body. They are not separate. Earth was created when the dust and rocks rotating around the sun lumped up together and pressed against each other. It was not separated from heaven. It’s still there.
Assuming what the Quran says is true, it is lifted from the Bible. There is no difference between what the Quran says and what the Bible says. Both of them are copied from the ancient mythology and are wrong.
I don’t read your comment because they are not smart. When you start writing intelligently I will read your comments and will respond.
"Weighed down by their enormous store of relics of ancient times, always left overtaken by the conquests of science, religions are inevitably doomed to fight first, that a hundred years later they
will be forced to admit tacitly or even to preach. " (Reclus / 1830-1905)
Firstly, you didn't even read my comment – or, you're just a dumb, dumb monkey. No offence.
The Qur'an is talking about the origin of the universe, in which they were one body then from that body the heavens and the earth were created. I supplied a link for a more thorough reading.
The Bible said that the heavens and the earth were once one entity cleft asunder? No, the Bible verse you quoted doesn't say anything close to that. Secondly, on another page I supplied an article which thoroughly proves how the Bible cannot be the source of the Qur'an, and to the think it can is foolish and desperate.
Have a nice day and good work on twirling your little lovers in your little finger ✔.
Seraj, did you even read the article? Those verses are wrong from a variety of points of views. The earth is not separate from heavens. It is part of the heaven. But this is not the only problem. I pin pointed to half a dozen other problems. Assuming what you say is a miracle, why not give credit to the Bible that say this first?
You Muslims amaze me. Your head is so stuck in this lie that you can't even understand plain English.
What the Quran says is stupid. Assuming it is a miracle it is from the Bible. How may cells in your brain work? Why can't you understand such a simple thing.
I showed that the origin if this stupid statement is in the mythology of the ancient people and you keep repeating that it is a miracle. Shish! How can a religion destroy the brain of people to such an extent? There must be a limit to stupidity, or is there?
Hm, through reading that article something caught my eye which most Islamophobes pick on:
"21:30, ‘The heavens and the earth were joined together, and we clove them asunder’
This is wrong. Earth is not separate from heaven. It is, as it has always been, and will forever be, a part of it."
Wrong, wrong and wrong. Firstly, let's see what 21:30 says in full, shall we?
'Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder'? – Yusuf Ali.
The Qur'an says that the heavens and the earth were once one entity, sharing one body. and God then split them. Pickthall translated it as being 'one piece', so the Qur'an is basically saying the heavens and the earth were one – basically, the universe all comes from one body or entity.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/the_univers…
An article beautifully written explaining the origin of the universe in light of this verse, as well as some other verses which you also quoted through out the article.
✔ article debunked.
Not really. They use science only when it suits them. For example zakir naik calls evolution pseudo science but big bang cosmology (which is on much more shaky ground than evolution by natural selection) is okay becuse he can try to make that look similar to what the koran says. If the science said earth is actually flat then no doubt zaik would say he got it wrong and quote all the verses of the koran saying earth is flat. Of course the real reason zaik has to resort to science is becuse their is no logical reason to believe islam is true. The fallacie there is, that there is no such thing as scientific truth.
@ Johann – Exactly!
It is going to be interesting if big bang theory is proven wrong .Now all the islamic scholars try to say quran has already mentioned the big bang , and bring verses from it to prove their claim. If theory proven wrong do they admit quran is not from God??Oh wait ,no !! they say our interpretation was wrong and they find something in quran to justify the new theory……
Hi Ali Sina,
Additional point to say here is Muslims also try to argue that Qur'an first predicted about the expanding universe:
And the heaven We built with Our own powers (aydin) and indeed We go on expanding it (musi'un).
What is your reply to that?
Thanks,
Tushar
Very interesting article. Thanks for the mythology background information and the new theory from Wun-Yi Shu. If his theory is on the right track, it also resolves a problem if the Big Bang and Big Crunch are seen as successive cycles because it in essence makes a perpetual motion machine.
It is really ridiculous for Dr. Naik to try to make any kind of scientific point from the Quran. I think these verses are best understood through the lens of Muhammad's psychology. Everything he says is just to make himself look important and wise. In the context of a primitive culture, he only has to look a little less primitive to look wise to them, hence his jealousy over the people of the book, and his desire to show that he can have a book too, and a better one at that, and to show that he can tell better stories than those that were brought back from Persia.
Most Christian scientists accept the Big Bang as a plausible explanation of Genesis' story of creation, and I'm sure that any maturation of the state of the art, such as Wun-Yi Shu's theory would be equally welcomed. Most surveyed have also accepted evolution as the means by which God populated the earth.
Sir Roger Penrose, an English mathematical physicist, believes he has found evidence of a previous big bang and has proposed a theory of cyclical big bangs i.e. an infinite cycle of big bangs and big crunches.