The Innocent Prophet: A Review
Today, Imran Firasat, a Pakistani ex-Muslim living in Spain released his Youtube video, titled, The Innocent Prophet. The idea of making a movie came to him after the attacks in Benghazi where four Americans were butchered and the riots that ensued in many Islamic countries.
Imran wrote to me and asked for my support. I asked him about his intention. I told him if his intention is to spread the truth the story must be accurate and it should be presented in a tasteful way. If the idea is to insult Muhammad and incite Muslims, anything will do.
Not everything everyone does to fight Islam is helpful. Take the example of Pastor Terry Jones’s infamous Quran burning incidence. I applauded him when he announced he plans to burn the Quran and then said he won’t do it. I thought that was a brilliant stunt. He raised the awareness about the Muslims’ violence, but did not provoke them and no lives were lost. I was shocked when he went ahead and burned the damned book. That resulted in the death of at least 30 people, including seven UN workers, and injury to other 150 people.
What was the gain? Nothing! Anyone can burn a book. That does not prove the book is evil. Who is responsible for those victims? Muslims committed those crimes, but are they responsible? You can’t expect responsibility from savages. Everyone knows and agrees that the bar of humanity for Muslims is set very, very low. In fact Muslims riot and demand that it be set even lower. They have shown, time and again, that they are irresponsible and rash. Whether Jones accepts responsibility or not it was his senseless act that brought the death of those people. We have to fight Islamic menace, but there is a right way and a wrong way.
Another example is the movie Innocence of Muslims made by the Coptic American Nakoula Basseley Nakoula. This movie was blamed by Obama for the terrorism in Benghazi.in order to cover up his behind-the-door arms deals with the Muslim Brotherhood in Libya. But once the apology was made, Muslims, all over the world went on riot to demand more concessions. This is the typical behavior of Muslims. You want them to riot? Apologize to them for hurting their religious sensitivity, and millions of them will come to the streets, foaming in their mouths, shouting, burning and killing others. Obama, born a Muslim and still a Muslim knows about it just as much as I do. The riots led to hundreds of injuries and over 75 deaths. Again there was no gain in that movie. It was full of inaccuracies and slanders and it did not change anyone’s view about Islam.
These two examples (and I am not going to include the insanity of Anders Behring Breivik among them) demonstrate that not every move will advance our cause. Anyone who knows about war strategies, or has played chess, knows foolish moves can make one lose. Let us give these people the benefit of doubt and assume they had good intentions. As the proverb goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Good intentions are not enough. One must also act with wisdom.
I asked Imran about his intentions. I asked whether he was banking on the hope that there will be riots so he can make a name for himself, or does he really want to spread the truth. Looks like Dr. Jones and Imran are hoping that their movie will have the same impact as the Innocence of Muslims, which means they look forward to much riots and mayhem for publicity. The truth is that the Innocence of Muslims had no impact at all. No one changed his mind about Islam due to it. We have obviously different understanding of what we mean by impact. Is making Muslims go nuts, riot and kill people an impact? I believe impact is when we convince them that their faith is misplaced. This cannot be done by making baseless claims about their prophet.
I told Imran I doubt a riot will be in the cards. As explained above, the riots in 9/11/2012 were not about Nakoula’s video but they were instigated by Obama. However, if his intention is genuine, a cheap movie will not help. He should either do it right or don’t do it. A cheap movie will only muddy the waters and will make people lose interest when a real movie about Muhammad comes out.
Imran’s much promoted movie is finally out. However, despite all the hype it is not a movie, but a slide show. There are other slide shows about the life of Muhammad that are a lot more accurate and better done. Here is one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKvgTUOqKS8
And the best in my opinion is The Biography of the Prophet Illustrated by Abdullah Ibn Abi Sarh. http://www.prophetmuhammadillustrated.com/
This is a masterpiece. It is full of beautiful drawings and is very much accurate. It is a joy to look at those drawings and you’ll learn about Muhammad.
Imran’s slide show is replete with inaccuracies and false claims. Apart from the fact that the pictures are unrelated to the story, the story is his personal opinion, not supported by facts. The arguments made against Muhammad in this video are straw man fallacies. The fact that someone is an ex-Muslim does not make him an expert on Islam. Not even one in a thousand Muslims knows the Quran and far fewer have read the original biographies of their prophet.
Not only Imran’s facts are inaccurate, his interpretation of the life of Muhammad is also incorrect. He does not know the history of Muhammad and does not understand his motives. Muhammad was not a common criminal as Imran claims. He was not abused by his aunt. He did not leave the house of Abu Talib at the age of 20 to from a band of criminals. Where did he get all these and so many other details about the life of Muhammad that don’t exist in any book of history? Imran does not have the needed understanding of the man he purports to describe and demystify. He claims his goal is to tell the truth, and expose the facts, but he hasn’t bothered to read the books of history to learn those facts.
Before its release a few news sites in Europe made too much ado over this video. If publicity was Imran’s goal, he has attained it. However, there is nothing in this video that deserves much attention. The fact that it is poorly done is forgivable but the fact that it is not truthful is not.
The video is 72 minutes long. Watch it if you suffer from insomnia. It may help. But don’t expect to learn anything from it nor be entertained.
I am not against making movies about Muhammad; I am working on one. I am against making up facts and assuming everyone is also ignorant of the history and will buy whatever you say as fact. I have watched only half of the video so far. None of the things Imran says in this video is true. This video is fiction. It has nothing to do with Muhammad. It seems he does not care about facts. He is hoping for a Muslim backlash and the more outrageous his video, the more is likely that they will react.
I finally saw the entire video. I have not heard so much nonsense from anyone other than a Muslim. Imran made up the entire story of Muhammad. Sadly few people know that story and I hear so many people praising him.
Science came out within the last 1000 years how did Muhammed know how a baby is born from the fetus all the way to the point where it leaves its mothers womb. You say millions of muslims knew after 9/11. Weve had more people join the religion since. Dnt know were u get ur information but its absolute crap. Ur talkin out ur arss m8.
Next time i hear a priest trying it with little children im gna make a film. Oops could have made at least 300 by now.
No one was ever forced to become Muslim. Our prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) even went to a Jewish temples to show respect. He created an era where we all respected each other no matter where you were from or what you believed. Everyone on here is ACTING like they know sooo much but really there not speakin facts. Please refrain urself wen giving information especially if your making it up and you cant provide a source. Im sure if you read the quran yourself you would know how he was as a person. Search for truth is a joke!! Still laughing at your so called truth.
Namaste Dr. Ali Sina
I am looking forward for your blockbuster movie showing ignorance, lies, brutality, anti- woman views of so called profet Muhammad. Muslims in Indian sub-continent should know that how their ancestors ere forced to convert to Islam. After becoming Muslims, they followed every order of Muhammad . As every action has equal reaction (Karma and it's fruit) ,their is bloodshed, fear, depression, and insult are the characteristics of living of Muslims. They are getting exactly what they had done with others from middle age according to the law "As you sow ,so shall you reap."
Ali
I want to remind you that you have used word 'rabid' to Indians in comment to Dr. Ali Sina. It is expected from you(unreasonable minded man). Islam teaches you to hate, to kill others, to rape unbeliever woman and critisize other religions since your childhood. Therefore Muslims are violent, terrorist, jihadist. You don't use your brain(follow Muhammad blindly) . After 9/11 Islam came into limelight, it's teachings and it's goal of victory on the world with the help of sword and hate speeches. Does Islam achieved it's goal? No.It's reality is exposed in sound way. Millions of Muslims came to know that they were following wrong and stupid mirage called Islam drafted by Muhammad. You informed that Qatar govt.is producing a high budget movie on the teachings of Mohammad. I promise you that Islam will lose more followers after seeing the movie because Muslims in 21 st century are aware of Science, human values and liberal values. I want to thank Qatar govt. for sharing the responsibility of former muslims.
So what does it take to convince Islamofacists that quran is a blood thirsty text?
If the quran was the word of God and perfect why does islam have to kill so many people?
why are muslims killing muslims ( iraq, syria, iran, lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, pakistan, india, indonesia, sudan, niger, morroco, saudi arabia, palistine, and xxxstans) .. and more
why are muslims killing budhists (thialand, burma, china)
why are muslims killing hindus (india, pakistan, cashmire)
why are muslims killing christians ( iraq, syria, iran, lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, pakistan, india, indonesia, sudan, niger, morroco, saudi arabia, palistine, stans, russia, america, bali, spain, london, france, nigeria, south sudan, phillipines, and more)
if the quran is so perfect why must a man with a sword force people to become muslim?
if the quran is so perfect why would anyone ever apostate?
if the quran is so perfect why are 1.6 billion of the poorest people muslim?
maybe the quran is crule joke by a man called mohammad who like hilter put himself above God! http://tvuncle.com
I started to think every kind of site as this one didn't asking and looking for the true answers
But they looking for the acceptance of thougt to THEIR ANSWER
Even if Ali Sina said that he/she want to convert back if Islam is tru but he/she has arrogantly believe that he she won't convert back
I doubt that you have read any of the articles. you talking nonsense mindlessly. you are Challenging, assuming defeated all ( including Muslims), day dreaming, and what not. How would this person understand. you are badly ILLUSIONED, DELUSIONED, BRSINWASHED, INDOCTRINATED by this SITE if some people here didn't thought
THEY THOUGHT ISLAM BRAINWASHED , yet it is THIS SITE the one BRAINWASH
THEN YOUR EXPLANATION TO THOSE ARE ALSO IRONICALLY RED HErrING and if you reply me that it is not then it will be logical fallacies
It is not only that from chess, but ONE SIDE MUST BE LOST AND ONE BE A VICTOR
And the one get victory is ISLAM
what I mean by leave alone is don't interact with, but I realized the context from my language with the one in English doesn't match
Why people DISOBEY? DIDN'T BELIEVE IN THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT, AND KILLING MUSLIMS IS FORBIDDEN, BUT MUNAFIQUN Who claimed to be muslims and endanger muslim and Islam better been leave alone.
And if muslims kill because they defend themselves I think it make sense…..,, IMAGINE PEOPLE WITH GUNS ( inserts number here) try to kill (Inserts another number here) of MUSLIMS and you expect muslims to be peace, not killing for defence , and struggle, and let the Gunmen to kill them off because of peace.
If people ask why some Muslims use violence for defence= basicly you said Islam is bad because they murder (Isn't the Israel also murder and rob Palestinians?)
If Muslims didn't defend through violence and let them be at peace, they die because they didn't fight and murder……….,, hundred years later ancestor the ones who murder all Muslims will say those Muslims are fool because hey didn't kill the attacker
Subject: Fwd: : The Mother of Boston Bombers. …… Time to get mad…To:
The Mother of the Boston bombers. WATCH THIS!…….
This judge is magnificent. Bravo ! Listen and share……..while we still can
Mother of bombers. WATCH THIS
If you haven't seen this video yet, you should watch this.
Brave Newscaster for Fox News. I'm so proud of her.
She may be a woman , but she has guts. Indeed !
The White House will put so much pressure on Fox to force them to fire her it will be unreal.
She has violated "all" the new political correctness words for terrorists, jihadist, Muslims, Islam, etc. , etc.
This is the way the President should actually speak while sending a message to radical Islam terrorists, Hamas, Al Qaeda , Iran, Iraq, Syria, and the Muslim Brotherhood.
CLICK ON: http://www.therightscoop.com/must-watch-judge-jea…
Subject: Fwd: : The Mother of Boston Bombers. …… Time to get mad…To:
The Mother of the Boston bombers. WATCH THIS!…….
This judge is magnificent. Bravo ! Listen and share……..while we still can
Mother of bombers. WATCH THIS
If you haven't seen this video yet, you should watch this.
Brave Newscaster for Fox News. I'm so proud of her.
She may be a woman , but she has guts. Indeed !
The White House will put so much pressure on Fox to force them to fire her it will be unreal.
She has violated "all" the new political correctness words for terrorists, jihadist, Muslims, Islam, etc. , etc.
This is the way the President should actually speak while sending a message to radical Islam terrorists, Hamas, Al Qaeda , Iran, Iraq, Syria, and the Muslim Brotherhood.
CLICK ON: http://www.therightscoop.com/must-watch-judge-jea…
All war is wrong. Islam should be eradicated by education not war.
That movie would be as real as "harry potter" is.
Thats our point too genius. Anything that should be "just believed" is the basic definition of brainwashing.
Sure good excuse. If hes such a weakling why dont you go out and debate him lol. Plenty of nonsensical beliefs have stood thousands of years without anyone shaking them (murder, rape hatred and other horrid concepts like islam). By the way its not "thousands", its only A thousand and 500 years.
Im an honest outsider. I really dont think Ali Sina is an expert at all. Normally a debater keeps his points short and precise while this guy talks looong. Yet the fact that he makes sense and patiently explains his points simply mean that his opponents dont have any logical points to put through. All i see in reply to him is talk talk talk. Not one honest reply on this entire site, not even close as to explain why muhammad was a good guy. Feel free to answer me here if you have a reason to vindicate your allaged prophet.
By saying they are "Also" false, do you accept that Islam is false too? Thats pretty honest of you 🙂
Repeatedly proven by you? Kindly send each link where you disproved it 🙂 . By the way, you cant paste links to your fantasies, its got to actually happen duh. Its pretty clear you are in denial
I think he is speaking against the religion itself and not so much against muslims. To monger, you have to get some profit in return. Kindly speculate what hes gettin O_O
Is Allah bound by any deeds or promises Allah Makes ? Suppose Allah changes the mind and veto "his" own promise, then what could happen ? Are you not aware that similar things were done during the life time of Prophet PBUH, which lead to the abrogation of the verse of Holy Kuran. Are you not aware that first Allah only ordered to worship facing Jerusalem and then in changed to Mecca Sharief. You are making the lord of universe(Rab Ul Almeen) as a watchman of something which was created and will be destroyed as non but Allah will remain. That is Al Baqi.Allah hu Baqi Min Qulle Fani.
Allah has promised to protect the Kaaba. No one can tear it down.But Allah had not promised to save the temple of Hindus so we Muslim tore down temples easily in past.
Slave mentality, believing in Muhammad's creation, allah, and its creator is the surest way to eternal hellfire. Muhammad said he did not know what fate awaited him in the hereafter. You are more than welcome to join him wherever he is languishing now.
Sooner than later ISLAM will be wiped physically out as you do not wish to understand truth, but insist on physical expansion of your Cult through piggy breeding and forcible conversions.
"peaceful" does not mean surrendering to illogical, Inhuman,Ignorant, Satanic philosophy Of Mad Mohammad.
However, You are deceiving the viewers by showing a video without authentic information.
"But no one including you and your Idol worshiper Hindu friends could meet the challenge of mine."
" But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, fixed and immovable–the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth–by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me" – Srikrishna
Bhhagavadgita 12th CH- verses 3 & 4.
PURPORT
If one approaches the Godhead ( as unmanifested , the inconceivable, which is beyond the approach of the senses) by the method mentioned in this verse, he has to control the senses, render service to everyone and engage in the welfare of all beings.
In order to perceive the Supersoul ( unmanifested , the inconceivable, which is beyond the approach of the senses) within the individual soul, one has to cease the sensual activities of seeing, hearing, tasting, working, etc. Then one comes to understand that the Supreme Soul is present everywhere. Realizing this, one envies no living entity–he sees no difference between man and animal because he sees soul only, not the outer covering. But for the common man, this method of impersonal realization is very difficult.
"For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied."- Bhagavadgita 12th CH, verse 5
The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore, the bhakti-yogi accepts the Deity of Krsna (for that matter any logical & Humane conception of Godhead) as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind, which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguna and nirguna–of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguna worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord.
The process of centering attention on the unmanifested , the inconceivable, which is beyond the approach of the senses, ( as Muslims, Christians and Jews have been doing) as already expressed in this verse, should never be encouraged at any time, especially in this age. It is not advised by Lord Krsna.
Muslims have very little understanding or even misunderstanding of the science of spirituality.
They are haughty, self righteous, arrogant, conceited, hateful, harsh,impudent, filled with false prestige and false devotion, envious and mischievous, lustful, angry, greedy. Such men of poor understanding dare to criticize Idol worship.
Slave, you are at liberty to prove anything you allege. Go ahead and do so.
I mean my above compliment refers to @ I-HATE-ISLAM for his above enlightening thread.
well done!!!
@Hate Monger
Don't you think Hinduism, Judaism and Christianity also false? I can prove you these religions are false.
Sujeesh, there are so many things to prove that islam is false. Muhammad hated the Jews because after hearing their stories, he re- branded them as 'revelations' from allah. As the Jews knew the sources of those 'revelations', they saw Muhammad as an incompetent fool and impostor. That infuriated him to no end. Fables which were in circulation before his birth were passed off as 'revelations'. He fumbled on some aspects of his own teachings when the deputation from Najran met him. To save his face, he came up with the ridiculous assertion that some parts of the quran are ambiguous while some other parts are unambiguous. According to him, as the meaning of the ambiguous portion is only known to allah, muhammadans should not follow them but cling to the unambiguous portions. Who determines which is which as no criteria have been set? What sense does that make exactly? The whole thing is hog-wash. Only brain dead apparitions refuse to see the quran for what it is: a monumental fraud on humanity.,
There is nothing to prove that Islam is false. Read Quran with an unbiased mind and ask your soul whether Islam is true.The supreme role model of Islam says that 20 % of war booty should go to him.He allows special provisions to himself which other muslims are forbidden in Quran .Asked muslims to worship al-lat,al-uzza and al-mannat which is a clear deviation from Islamic monotheism and idol worshipping and later removes those verses. Asks muslims to rape women prisoners of war.Says Sun sets in a muddy pool.Earth is flat.
What prophecy did Mohammed perform ?What miracles did Mohammed perform ?How can you call someone as a prophet who doesnt any prophecy to his credit?
"But "hate-mongering" is relevant to something. "
Son – one doesn't HAVE to spell everything out. For example – every time you mention an apple. You don't define it.
Sina is hate-mongering against Muslims – that is KIND OF OBVIOUS.
Especially given how keen you are to read all my posts.
It hurts,uh? :[
This is some of the most boring text I read in a while. My balls are itching me this is so boring. Joe if you are going to join or start a cult, at least start something useful not this useless shit. True light is Strength? Strength is sinless? light must be in you? are you an idiot?
If Muhammad was the humane and holy prophet muslims claim that he was, why would any body invest such a huge sum of money to launder his image? That Qatar is willing to spend $1 billion to project Muhammad means that the man was evil in human form. Only bad products require such public relations stunts. Muhammad tops them all. Let the Qataris and others waste their money on useless films while millions of muslims go hungry across the world. Such is the evil nature of islam which lays emphasis on the mundane rather than what profits adherents of the cruel and desolate creed. Why are the followers of other religions not squandering huge funds polishing the images of their founders as the muslims are doing? This shows, without a doubt, that islam is based on falsehood and is rotten from the core.
Can u really falsify the charges laid on muham-mad
sorry dude hav a sensible name dog of islam.huh sorry comparing ur islam wid dog is an insult to a faithful animal dog bcoz islam doesn't support faithfulness to anyone except Satan OOOOOppppps muhammad
See another violent muslim exposed
Ali sina how much gold the evil jew pay you to make lie agianst pure religions islam? I know you are mosad agent and mission to stop people know truth. It is the jews up to old tricks like 911. You take the jew shekel! Embrace true religions not lie of evil massmurder death god yahweh. The prophet is innocent. He no do bad thing . Ever it all jew lie just like pornography invent by jew to stop goyem put seed in women and keep goyem population down. THE JEWS MUST BE STOPPING
If you don't believe ! Otherwise eggheads will struggle to understand ! And you can see plenty of live examples here !
So the God's words need an IQ 189+…long live Pislam!!
"Hence I was right . . . . you are a hate-monger – look you admit it. "
This is like the debate Dr Sina had with Alwi Alatas here:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/debates/typi…
Alwi Alatas: Sina also said that the Christians and mankind should thank the Crusaders. Even he said that the Crusade was inspired by Muslims. If we consider this as true, than the Christians should thank Muslims, for Muslims had inspired the Christians. They shouldn’t destroy Islam or Muslims, for it is impossible to thank and destroy something at the same time.
Ali Sina: The absurd thinking of Muslim never stops amazing me. :-D.
Kabir is an intelligent man. Like Ali Sina, he understood islam long back.
@aminriadh / aminthemystic… so you've shed your other screen name? So, is this the new face of aminriadh?
Again… the fact that you believe muhammad flew to heaven on a mule-creature with winged thighs (not to mention all the other completely far fetched things you, as a muslim, believe), shows that you are certainly not intelligent and far smarter…
Definitely keep up the delusion, though. It seems to make you feel better… oh… and the emperor really really DOES have new clothes.. 😉
J Stillwater
The movies of Charlie Chaplin are excellent to watch even today. What technology is there in them, considering today's standards? Besides humour there was humanity in his films.
What is the great technology in the film " Gone with the wind"?
"But …. keep making the distinction, do not blur the borders and then cross them. So often you react to his message"
huh?
Are you preaching at me!
I don't believe this – the hate-monger preaches!
– – –
"There is deflection and hence ad hominem aplenty in your posts. It will be pointed out. "
No it won't . . .
Because if there was any – you would have LONG ago – er . . . pointed it out.
WHich you haven't.
– – –
Let US not forget.
To you Ad Hom is allowed.
I call it wrong.
You don't.
– – –
Hence you massive attacks, lies and swearing at me.
– – –
So you hypocrite . . . . say one thing at me . . .
but for yourself . . . it is different standards.
– – –
I see –
I will openly say it.
– – –
Me and you clearly have DIFFERENT ideology and morality.
– – –
"well then, this goes both ways, or not. If you don't mind, I/ we don't mind. "
Actually it doesn't.
Which false accusations?
Name them – I will answer.
= = =
" I did never BEG you for respect
Yes you did.
– – –
"Julia did much more than just insulting, you did claim that my claims were false simply because I did not provide enough evidence and reason, you did claim, without proof that you won argument after argument from me. I can collect too and demand answers and claim that you did not answer to my satisfaction. "
Then why don't you?
" "How does "hate" lead to better future?" "
No son . . . you were asked about hating people.
Don't deflect. . . . answer up.
– – –
"He even justified hate towards Muslims."
This should have given you a massive hint!
– – –
"Well, yes, some, not all. But you are being deliberatly or ignorantly OBTUSE. Muslims are people who have chosen Islam. So KnowTheEnemy hates only that part of them. And that part of them is a choice. "
huh?
I exposed this before – and you had NO answer.
This is BULLSHIT excuse and it doesn't make sense.
Else – in the same vain . . . Hitler justified killing of Jews.
He was only killing their Jewishness.
That is all.
Oh Judaism is evil.
Evil MUST be eradicated.
– – –
Does that make sense.
No
"There is no need to deflect from the topic or the making up of lost ground OR THE MESSAGE, by belittling-vilifying the messengers, like you do so often. "
Which is a DISGUSTING LIE!
Form YOU who justified . . . . horrendous verbal abuse, lying and I suspect EVEN violence towards me.
– – –
Sonny – I stand for Western concepts of freedom . . . .FAR FAR better than you.
And far less hypocritically.
– – –
As i have shown . . . the 1st chance you get. . . . you turn tail and claim and do the opposite.
Then sit there finding excuses.
– – –
See – you are LIAR. .. . challenge me over it why don't you.
For this:
"There is no need to deflect from the topic or the making up of lost ground OR THE MESSAGE, by belittling-vilifying the messengers, like you do so often. "
You hypocrite!
Now you are pretending to be moral and sanctimonious.
Where WAS this when you were justifying Julia?
– – –
Where is Julia right now?
– – –
You have committed far far far far worse than what YOU allege I do or have done.
WHich you mysteriously only accuse me – of and no proof.
"We both hold mirrors to each other."
No we don't. You certainly don't.
What is it that you do?
Fling lying accusations at me.
I have challenged EVERY single one so far. . . . have I ever had an answer?
No.
"How? When? When in the same post I described "borders" and the first border for me is: "No violence!" Not for ordinary people, only for governments and police, of course.
"
The end result of this:
" Well, that depends on whether or not Islam is a choice, to which adult people can be held accountable. Because choices have consequences. And that is a big issue to discuss, I admit. But you yourself said being Muslim was a choice. "
– – –
You also claimed – to yoyu lying and verbal abuse were wrong. . .
When Julia came along . . . what did you do?
Yes. . . . Justified hateful abuse.
– – –
As posted above. . . you will find excuses
– – –
At first you claimed to abhor "hate"
When I took that away. . . then you turned tail and said . . .
oh some hate mongering can be good.
– – –
Similarly Sina does this . . . .
He claims to be for non-Violence.
Yet then he says. . .
If he was President of USA – he will bomb Muslims into submission!
– – –
That is non-Violence for you. . . !
– – –
Now answer . . . . are you people devious and liars or not!
Evidence presented!
"However, on occasion even Hitler may have said something positive, accurate, true, valuable."
Which as I have already said . . .counts for nought.
Saddam apparently wrote philosophical treaties on "love"!
– – –
"Are you preparing a criminal case against Ali Sina? that is one thing. But it is quite another matter when you dismiss statements-opinions-claims of him because HE made them or HE passed them on. "
More deception and dishonesty from you.
"dismiss statements-opinions-claims of him because HE made them or HE passed them on."
Yes – I dismiss them.
Of course I do.
Some because they are mere rants
Some as they are hate
Some as they are lies.
Some because they are illogical.
– – –
At the moment I am exposing his book.
Unsurprisingly – one find "illogicality" even in the prefaces of the book!
Then it will be the lies of the articles.
Then there is NOTHING left.
– – –
Just look how I expose his poor thinking. . . . repeatedly.
Over and over and over.
"you stated, referring to yourself: "I am better read, educated intelligent and far smarter…""
True.
I am what I claim above.
"Good response. Now you know why we hate Islam."
It is NOT your hate of Islam that is under question.
It is the hate of Muslims.
– – –
The two are different things altogether.
– – –
One might have hated Nazism to the limit. But that did not mean one hates the Germans.
= = =
"Islam is so evil that it is the perfect object of hate. "
No it isn't. As repeatedly shown . . . . you reduce Islam down to that. Which one can do with simply anything, ideology and person.
Hence why you lying and dishonesty is regularly exposed.
"The situation DOES arise; The OAE presses UN and western states to criminalise defamation of religions, don't they? "
Which has GOT nothing to do with this discussion.
Don't deflect."""""""
I meant the OIC (56 Islamic countries). And it IS relevant to the topic of freedom of speech. And whether YOU would support censorship in the shape of anti-blasphemy-laws and anti-defamation-of-religion-laws.
Which in the OIC abundantly is practiced. And which the OIC has asked in the UN to practice worldwide.
My point was that your attitude was of demonizing as hatemongering and yes, as demonizing, violence-inciting, dangerous, detrimental some kind of insulting style by Ali Sina and Julia.
You were wholly or almost CONDEMNING it. And it was a logical question of me to you if you would censor through laws this kind of speech.
And frankly I think you WOULD support anti-defamation-laws considering you CONDEMNING, well, all this defamation of Islam here.
You on the other hand made a distinction between just accepting defamation of Islam and actively supporting it. Which surprised me.
But once I accept such defamation of Islam I can also see that it has advantages and I explained them to you in detail.
@Ali… do you think the qatari movie will show muhammad's men coming to him with the question about coitus interruptus? Remember that story? You know… the true story about the night muhammad's men came to him and asked if they should, when raping their captive women "pull out" before they ejaculate so that they won't impregnate the slave women and lessen their value at sale? Do you think the qatari movie will show that? Um… no.
How about this… do you think the qatari movie will show muhammad rubbing his male member up and down the thighs of a six year old little girl… oh… wait… sorry… she was adult… and then, there's the part where muhammad has sex with her at nine… do you think the qatari movie will show this? (Can you imagine… candlelight… 54 year old man… climbs on top of this nine year old girl… and rams it in… yep… I can see the oskar now…
How about the jews that muhammad beheaded in batches… what was it… 600 or 700 jews? Yeah… that's going to go over really big in hollywood…where the majority of the people who run the movie business are… yep… jews…
Look… you and I both know that the qatari movie will be more lies and misinformation to aid the spread of islam… no movie about muhammad can be made by muslims and contain truth… it is just impossible…
J Stillwater
@Ali… you keep making statements like those… and yet… you're a muslim… think about it… just the fact that you're a muslim says you are "stupid" or "dim wit" enough to believe things like muhammad flew to heaven on a mule-creature with winged thighs and a stride that could reach to the extent of its view… even aminriadh said the following: "And what is INSANE about it? It is PERFECTLY possible." That's what aminriadh answered when I said it was insane for muhammad to go around telling people this nonsense out loud…
So… please help me… I admit I'm stupid and a serious dimwit… I cannot figure out for the life of me… how muhammad survived riding a winged mule-like creature "up" to heaven, without a space suit, without oxygen, without something shielding his eyes… and something that helped him survive the infernal temperatures of reentry into earth's atmosphere…
Maybe you… who are a muslim, and obviously smarter than all of is… can explain this to us… and this is just ONE of the silly things muslims believe… and there are LOADS of these things…
How in the world, can you call me stupid for not following this?
Can you please explain to this dim wit how muhammad pulled this off? And what proof you have that this is even possible?
J Stillwater
@no name… what do you think this passage from the qur'an means?
When the qur'an speaks of that which "we charged Abraham, Moses, and Jesus," what is it speaking of? I'm especially interested in what muslims believe Moses was charged with… and what Jesus was charged with…
Let's say I "should just believe…" What am I believing in? What was Abraham, Moses, Noah and Jesus charged with that I'm supposed to be believing?
Also… why does the verse start out as if it's muhammad talking by saying "He has laid down for you as religion," which seems to be muhammad saying that "god has laid down for you…" and then, in the next line… the voice changes to "we, etc." Who is speaking in this verse? Is it muhammad saying that allah has laid down as religion, etc., or is it allah speaking here? If it allah, why did allah start by saying "he has laid down for you, etc.?
2 answers… probably a no brainer for a studied muslim… Anybody? Aminriadh? Ali? Anybody?
J Stillwater
I clearly said that neither our nor your side needed evidence and good reason for opinions and claims. Single standards there.
And you are perfectly willing and able to point our fallacies on our side. Both sides do not have to point out fallacies of it's own people, just to prove that there are only single standards, I think. But if we should do it, then you should do it too; exposing and disapproving fallacies on your own side. When that happens then ALL have single standards to a high degree. Not when just the Western/ democratic side admits it's own faults, but when the Islamic side never does that.
I tried to expose, but I did not condemn.
And not you as person but the destructive parts of your posts in which persons on our side often get blasted or belittled and/ or vilified by you yourself.
Perhaps I forgot to point out what you should do instead; but once upon a time I did try that; by advising you to show more respect for and seek some compromises, middle grounds with opponents,
perhaps with avoiding logical fallacies.
You reacted to that with repeating a lot of times that I BEGGED for respect.
You are right about some of what you say. Like me making up lost ground instead of purely discussing topics. I of course also ackowledge that counterjihadists have leveled plenty of insults on Mohammed, Muslims, you. Also accepting freedom of speech while at the same time denouncing what people say, and not that they say it, is a possible, normal situation.
We have common ground.
But we are from opposite sides. You did not mince words to our side. And we never established any ground rules, like discussing topics only, not making up for lost grounds, being obliged to give evidence and good logic for every single opinion or claim.
And when opponents fail to discuss topics, bring evidence and good logic for opinions-claims you should and you do take advantage of it. To influence the reader in your favor, in a constructive way. There is no need to deflect from the topic or the making up of lost ground OR THE MESSAGE, by belittling-vilifying the messengers, like you do so often.
“Easy, “hate” of Hitler, Nazism lead to war against him and to a better future than with him.”
Good response. Now you know why we hate Islam.
It is okay to hate an ideology. The problem with Islam is that it teaches its followers to hate all mankind – everyone who is not a believer and even the believers who don’t interpret Islam the “right way” or according to some Muslims make bid’a in religion.
Islam is so evil that it is the perfect object of hate.
"Read this BACK to yourself . . . you lost the meaning in the jumble of a paragraph"
Oh, sorry about that.
You, for 99 % contradict arguments that highligh supposed or real demerits/ faults/ flaws of Islam. So these get the attention, not much attention get your promotion of Islam's merits and our refutation of them.
Nooo, I like and support THAT Western practice and standard very much.
But it depends on an independent jury.
It is my opinion that our side presents you with great eloquence, ample evidence and reference, from good sources, even though you question the source often in order to discredit the message, and that we provide ample good logic, if not always perhaps, but often enough.
But you seem to think that YOU hold the power of giving/ withholding approval. And you simply withhold approval and give denial-dismissal-denigration-deflection-destructing contents contents and value of counter-arguments to your arguments.
So you WITHHOLD approval. Which probably was your intent all along. You just needed enough logic and arguments to justify it, it seems to me.
And THAT is something some Westerners do too and hence what they understand now also.
We should agree on criteria, fallacies and avoiding fallacies. We both hold mirrors to each other. I did discuss topics as if my life depended on it, but I may have been wrong and would accept independent clear criteria for us both/ all.
I did pass judgement on you, but I thought that that pertained to your messages only, and not your whole person. But I may have been wrong and would accept independent clear criteria for us both/ all.
In the meantime I will keep answering what you bring up and I will keep defending myself and posters when you attack their messages or them.
"Right . . . .and here you justify indiscriminate killing of Muslims!"
How? When? When in the same post I described "borders" and the first border for me is: "No violence!" Not for ordinary people, only for governments and police, of course.
I sometimes wonder if you think about what you write.
"How does "hate" lead to better future?"
Easy, "hate" of Hitler, Nazism lead to war against him and to a better future than with him.
"He even justified hate towards Muslims." Well, yes, some, not all. But you are being deliberatly or ignorantly OBTUSE. Muslims are people who have chosen Islam. So KnowTheEnemy hates only that part of them. And that part of them is a choice.
He does not hate people for something they did not choose, but were born with, like Jews and Blacks.
Yet when I exercise it by opposing you then you complain.
"I have NOT once tried to stop you from saying what you want to say.,
I OPPOSE It.
And show its invalidity. "
ME TOO. This is common ground for us.
"It sum of something that is considered. Just because Hitler loved his kids . . . . does NOT overcome his atrocious crimes.""
Indeed not, you are right. However, on occasion even Hitler may have said something positive, accurate, true, valuable. And my argument was: Do not dismiss the message, just because of the person of the messenger.
Are you preparing a criminal case against Ali Sina? that is one thing. But it is quite another matter when you dismiss statements-opinions-claims of him because HE made them or HE passed them on.
"This is HIS site. Hence HE is the subject."
Fair enough, make him a subject of discussion, and THEN you describing him and his views is not ad hominem. I see the difference.
But …. keep making the distinction, do not blur the borders and then cross them. So often you react to his message (but often as I said NOT his alone) and then you rely on discrediting the message because of the messenger. And the same you do with the posters, messengers of other messages. And these posters are clearly not your subject of discussion. There is deflection and hence ad hominem aplenty in your posts. It will be pointed out.
"As when I challenge your false accusations – you DO NOT HAVE ANY RESPONSES."
well then, this goes both ways, or not. If you don't mind, I/ we don't mind.
but if you do mind; I have plenty to challenge you; I did never BEG you for respect, Julia did much more than just insulting, you did claim that my claims were false simply because I did not provide enough evidence and reason, you did claim, without proof that you won argument after argument from me. I can collect too and demand answers and claim that you did not answer to my satisfaction.
@aminriadh… oh… and PLEASE don't try and tell us muhammad's trip to heaven on a mule was a vision or a dream… because I'm standing by with loads of proofs from muslim sources that it was told as an actual event…
So, explain: how did muhammad fly to heaven (which is in the sky or beyond it, which I can also prove), without oxygen, a space suit, eye protections, thermal protection from the freezing cold of space, protection from the crushing zero vacuum of space, and… most important of all… something to shield muhammad from the infernal temperatures of reentry into the earth's atmosphere…
Your education and intellect should come in handy as you try to explain this one… and no matter how you answer it, you will appear to be ridiculous and FAR from intelligent and educated…
J Stillwater
@aminriadh… you stated, referring to yourself: "I am better read, educated intelligent and far smarter…" and yet… in the following link, when I said: " You seem like a sane person… does flying to "heaven" (wherever that is) on a winged mule-like creature seem like a sane thing to go around telling other people?" YOU REPLIED: "And what is INSANE about it? It is PERFECTLY possible."
Does this answer to my comment sound like it is being made by an educated and "far smarter" person? Look, you're a muslim… just that says it all… muslims are not smart, or educated… if they were… they would not allow themselves to be beguiled by things like flying mule creatures…
So… educated person… can you explain how muhammad survived riding a winged mule-like creature "up" to heaven, without a space suit, without oxygen, without something shielding his eyes… and something that helped him survive the infernal temperatures of reentry into earth's atmosphere?
Feel free to use the "ABC" of logic in your attempt to explain this one…
J Stillwater
"I don't blame you… because at best, you are a textbook for the use of logical fallacies"
You do NOT even know ABC of what logic is. . . else:
I cna easily test you.
– – –
EVERYONE knows you ran off.
You are a laughing stock.
Those who don't . . . one can point them to your
"BIG DECLARATION"
– – –
I am better read, educated intelligent and far smarter.
Take a hike son.
@aminriadh… how do I spell delusional? a, m, i, n, r, i, a, d, h.
You're kidding with this comment, right? When you said: " I accept – but try reading up what happened to people like J Stilwater, Demsci, Julia, Sina, knowTheEnemy…" what exactly are you claiming here?
When an opponent has come to the end of their reasoning… they confidently claim victory… saddam did the same thing… and then, they found him in a hole, hiding like a wet rat…
In fact… you now post without logging into intense debate… why do you do this? Is it because you don't want muslims clicking on your name and seeing how poorly you handle yourself on these comment pages? I don't blame you… because at best, you are a textbook for the use of logical fallacies… and at worst, you are… well… I spelled it out above…
J Stillwater
" Well said, Loki, thanks, you and I and others should compare notes on Aminriadhs posts. "
See what I mean.
Anyone who is against me supposedly – you are 1st in to arse-lick.
– – –
= = =
You fail to notice "Loki" has simply made allegation . .. NO proof.
if it is THAT easy . . .then proof?
= = =
And what do you do?
"- he often gives opinions without evidence and reason, or with poor reasoning himself. And I would not mind that if he would mind that so much in us. he uses double standards for himself and us then.
– he is arguably MOSTLY destructive, denying, dismissing, deflecting from topics by denigrating posters. He often commits the fallacy of ad hominem with that.
– he also often commits the fallacy of
Argumentum ad lapidem (Latin: "to the stone") is a logical fallacy that consists in dismissing a statement as absurd without giving proof of its absurdity.
– what more is negative or logically fallacious about his comments? What more does he use against us that we by the same token can we use against him? As he does not seem to grasp that HIS methods can be used in both directions and that therefore HIS meth"
Condemn me on this basis.
= = =
This openly shows your hypocrisy and double standards.
= = =
Yet NOT one piece of evidence for you allegations . . . which YOU are very fond of repeating.
= = = =
Hence I am right . . .
As I am right by default.
"Look, there is much to say about freedom of speech and it's limits and also it's moral worth.
But my position has been pretty straightforward all along; Allow freedom of speech, even insulting, even what Julia did, from both sides. "
Here is why you are LYING outright.
I am openly calling you a liar.
Not it down.
– – –
You did NOT just accept Julia. . . BUT advocated her completely.
– – –
The 2 are separate things.
Freedom of speech is about acceptance that others have right to say what they want ot say.
– – –
Accepting and justifying this is completely different.
= = =
"Your position is much more complex; on the one hand, yes, freedom of speech must be allowed. But on the other hand, you ceaselessly condemn parts of freedom of speech, as exercised by Julia, Ali Sina, me, others, by calling it hate-mongering"
Once more you are lying openly.
It YOU who being dishonest.
And deceptive to the nth degree.
You claim "Freedom of Speech"
Yet when I exercise it by opposing you then you complain.
I have NOT once tried to stop you from saying what you want to say.,
I OPPOSE It.
And show its invalidity.
– – –
= = =
"You seem to disapprove of parts of freedom of speech. But many questions arise. Would you support politicians who call for censorship? Or would you oppose them and be my brother in this? etc. "
More decptions and lies.
I have NOT opposed freedom of speech – NOT once.
= = =
See – we have actually been over this.
= = =
"The situation DOES arise; The OAE presses UN and western states to criminalise defamation of religions, don't they? "
Which has GOT nothing to do with this discussion.
Don't deflect.
– – –
Look, there is much to say about freedom of speech and it's limits and also it's moral worth.
But my position has been pretty straightforward all along; Allow freedom of speech, even insulting, even what Julia did, from both sides. To a large extent, but ultimately to borders, OK. But what borders?
Your position is much more complex; on the one hand, yes, freedom of speech must be allowed. But on the other hand, you ceaselessly condemn parts of freedom of speech, as exercised by Julia, Ali Sina, me, others, by calling it hate-mongering, leading to violence, despicable, therefore you are not just responding to it, you are implicitly indicating that it should stop! And I say, let it be! it does more good than harm, it makes people think!
You seem to disapprove of parts of freedom of speech. But many questions arise. Would you support politicians who call for censorship? Or would you oppose them and be my brother in this? etc.
The situation DOES arise; The OAE presses UN and western states to criminalise defamation of religions, don't they?
Can there be middle ground between us on this?
"Even if you successfully proved that Ali Sina "deceived" somewhere, then that is not about ALL he asserts, only a part. What then about the rest that he says, OR JUST presents from other people's opinions and testimony? "
It is the SUM of what he is . . . . doh! One would have thought you would've got to something THAT obvious without it being pointed out.
But OBVIOUSLY not.
– –
"Ali Sina's "oeuvre" is very big and you have only scratched the surface. "
How do you know? You don't – Hence false remark.
– – –
"Many of his opinions on issues are shared by many other people, even by many and often leading Atheists and Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and divers, we've had posters on FFI from all of these. "
And – what DOES that matter. It doesn't make one JOT of a difference.
None of them were of ANY merit – hence NO names were mentioned.
– – –
"But you still seem to depend for much of your arguments on discrediting this specific "messenger" so that readers are persuaded to assume ALL he is saying is false? "
ONE AT A TIME!!!!!!!!
This is HIS site.
Hence HE is the subject.
This is NOT difficult to comprehend.
If I wanted to tackle Spencer.
I know how to do that.
– – –
"But if you openly depend on that you admit committing ad hominem-fallacy; "
Which I do NOT.
Ad hominem is when you are in argument – you attempt to seek merit by abusing the arguer rather than argument.
Making SINA the discussion is NOT ad-hominem.
Neither is when Sina makes others the subject of his discussions.
Have you actually read his site?
Try learning the difference.
Hence why I say. . .. YOU do not really know much about logic.
Accusing me of logical fallacies is not very clever of you . . . .
As when I challenge your false accusations – you DO NOT HAVE ANY RESPONSES.
– – –
"ttacking the messengers and his demerits, instead of focusing on and thus DEFLECTING from the message and it's merits and demerits. The messenger can be anything; a liar, criminal, hateful, violent, stupid, but some of his messages can still be truthful and valuable. "
WRONG!
Ha ha ha ha ha . . . . . I explained this to you BEFORE.
It sum of something that is considered.
Just because Hitler loved his kids . . . . does NOT overcome his atrocious crimes.
"Will Islam achieve world-domination? And how far in the future shall we try to look? Is Islam set to grow until judgement day? What if judgement day never comes in the 21st century? "
Try finding out what Islam is all about. . . rather than brainwashing yourself on one sided material.
Then you might find out the answer!!!
"If peace and harmony are what you want to promote, and if promoting/ defending Islam at all costs is in conflict with that, perhaps in your view only in the short run, which will you choose; peace and harmony or promoting/ defending Islam? "
Such hypothesis are false and irrelevant. As this situation might NEVER arise.
So why waste time answering them.
Here – free education for you!
TO make these plausible – one should add possible scenarios. This would have given merit to your hypothesis above.
To me this is a paradox – which in reality cannot exist.
– – –
"Peace and harmony where? Also in Islamic countries?
How? In the Islamic way? Or in a democratic way? Or in a way that is consistent with both ways? "
Peace and harmony are independent of Islam and democracy.
What gave you the idea of correlation.
Hence why I rubbish your poor hypothesis.
Engaging in them is simply foolish
– – –
"Is it your belief that peace and harmony best can be achieved by submission to Islam or in co-existence with equal rights for people of many different religions/ ways of life? "
Co-exist peacefully.
– – –
"And verbal warfare is a good alternative for violent warfare which is wrong, to which we almost all agree here. "
Wrong – YOU have no idea of that.
Sina for example has openly said he would BOMB Muslims into submission – IF he was president of USA.
– – –
" And it is also wrong to me and many here to try to defend religions/ ways of life, beliefsystems with censorship, or discouragement and obstruction of criticism by calling that criticism wrong and hatemongering. "
Doh! This is IDITOICNESS of the worst kind.
Pure deception.
Dishonesty!
You cannot CENSOR something by calling it "hate-mongering" and "wrong"
What an absurd proposal to assert.
So you want to make up whatever you want – and NOT have it challenged.
Censoring and Challenging are 2 different things.
Yet look at you above deception!
– – –
"But insulting is different from constructive criticism. But the problem with that is: who decides where the border is? "
Hence why your support of Julia over stepped the border.
And you could NOT defend till this day your hypocrisy.
– – –
"And if censorship is not universally feasible, it should not be enforced anywhere in this totally interconnected world of today. "
Meaningless rambles. No one is DISCUSSING or calling for censorship.
It is NOT relevant to what you were answering.
"No, he said he wanted a better future for world's children. In that he is loving and caring. "
But that IS NOT what he said:
"I would rather be a 'hate-monger'! Everyone who wants a better future for world's children should HATE evil ideologies like Islam. We should also despise its supporters, especially the educated ones! "
He justified his hate by implying it is to seek a better future for children.
How does "hate" lead to better future?
He even justified hate towards Muslims.
Yet – see how you deceive, manipulate and are dishonest!
– – –
"But he may be wrong and he must make sure that he only tries to reach and help his positive goals in non-violent ways. And to let and make people remain free to make informed choices about religion/ beliefsystems/ ways of life/ ideologies. "
What has THIS got to do with me?
Why ramble this at me?
– – –
"And he stays within those borders, by being committed to only verbal warfare. "
No he doesn't. Hate does NOT equal "verbal borders".
– – –
"Did Ali Sina and Knowtheenemy really say THAT? "
Yes.
– – –
" Well, that depends on whether or not Islam is a choice, to which adult people can be held accountable. Because choices have consequences. And that is a big issue to discuss, I admit. But you yourself said being Muslim was a choice. "
Right . . . .and here you justify indiscriminate killing of Muslims!
You have ALREADY justified – lying and verbal abuse.
By actively supporting them.
Now this is a new low for you.
Slowly your colours are coming out.
"A generality, an assumption. Yes, this might be his motivation, but that is not sure. He states plenty other motivations and have you proven or can you even prove that that is untrue? Isn't the burden of proof for such a claim on you? "
Yes. And I have done so. In the above comment strand and in past comments exchanged with him.
– – –
"Do you allow us to judge motivation of you, fellow-Muslims and even Mohammed, so blatantly as you do his?"
huh? My allowing HAS nothing to do with it. You pass plenty of "blatant judgements" of me already.
– – –
"If so we can level a lot at them too. "
You already do! Don't pretend otherwise.
– – –
"If not, let us all please refrain from deflecting from topics by discrediting opponents and their alleged motivation. "
You NEVER discuss topics . . . As I have shown your motivation is to make up lost ground . . . hence your repeated targeting of comments!
And then there is your DISHONESTY . . . that "topics" are being ignored.. . . . try actually reading rather than being in hurry to simply pass judgment on me.
Something which you have been doing a LOT lately.
As I have already pointed out.
"Evidence will at best for you show that time and again there was stalemate."
Simply NOT true. And dishonest of you to claim so. As it more of Western standard of debating where evidence is of utmost importance. In the sense it is for some time the West who has advanced this.
On one hand for you to to champion West and its alleged goodness. . . .then many times when it comes down it to it – then to disregard is at MINIMUM dishonest.
– – –
"As demerits, possible or real, of Islam were amply discussed and Islam was defended by you in contradicting claims of opponents, and by stressing demerits of opponents, but hardly ever by presenting and promoting MERITS of Islam. "
Read this BACK to yourself . . . you lost the meaning in the jumble of a paragraph
Well said, Loki, thanks, you and I and others should compare notes on Aminriadhs posts.
– He commences most of the time with quoting comments. That in itself is admirable.
– He asks many questions. some very good, he makes us think hard. He mostly demands proof, evidence.
– On occasion he presents facts and reason in a very good way. He is a very knowledgeable and tough opponent in this "constructive part" of his posts. It's no use to underestimate an opponent, I think.
But what does he come up with mostly? How should his credibility be assessed?
– he often gives opinions without evidence and reason, or with poor reasoning himself. And I would not mind that if he would mind that so much in us. he uses double standards for himself and us then.
– he is arguably MOSTLY destructive, denying, dismissing, deflecting from topics by denigrating posters. He often commits the fallacy of ad hominem with that.
– he also often commits the fallacy of
Argumentum ad lapidem (Latin: "to the stone") is a logical fallacy that consists in dismissing a statement as absurd without giving proof of its absurdity.
– what more is negative or logically fallacious about his comments? What more does he use against us that we by the same token can we use against him? As he does not seem to grasp that HIS methods can be used in both directions and that therefore HIS method is no use to him in the long run.
Perhaps we should respond to the destructive parts of comments with fallacy-scorn and after that focus on his constructive comments and debate those parts.
"Evidence will let you down:
" I accept – but try reading up what happened to people like J Stilwater, Demsci, Julia, Sina, knowTheEnemy . . ."
I'll say this in response to that: Evidence will at best for you show that time and again there was stalemate. In the absence of real impartial jury reaching and giving conclusions. I admit that in a way it is impossible to defeat you and you admitting to that.
But these debates cannot but have improved knowledge and awareness of demerits, real or possible, of Islam among readers, however few, however little. to think about.
As demerits, possible or real, of Islam were amply discussed and Islam was defended by you in contradicting claims of opponents, and by stressing demerits of opponents, but hardly ever by presenting and promoting MERITS of Islam.
"Your reason for commenting on Sina's site IS hate."
A generality, an assumption. Yes, this might be his motivation, but that is not sure. He states plenty other motivations and have you proven or can you even prove that that is untrue? Isn't the burden of proof for such a claim on you?
Do you allow us to judge motivation of you, fellow-Muslims and even Mohammed, so blatantly as you do his? If so we can level a lot at them too. If not, let us all please refrain from deflecting from topics by discrediting opponents and their alleged motivation.
"Hence I was right . . . . you are a hate-monger – look you admit it."
No, he said he wanted a better future for world's children. In that he is loving and caring.
He sees Islam as a gruesome and powerful obstacle to a better future! He has made a choice and he loves some things and hates it's opponents.
But he may be wrong and he must make sure that he only tries to reach and help his positive goals in non-violent ways. And to let and make people remain free to make informed choices about religion/ beliefsystems/ ways of life/ ideologies.
And he stays within those borders, by being committed to only verbal warfare.
"All Muslims are dirty" Did Ali Sina and Knowtheenemy really say THAT?
"All Muslims are Guilty". Well, that depends on whether or not Islam is a choice, to which adult people can be held accountable. Because choices have consequences. And that is a big issue to discuss, I admit. But you yourself said being Muslim was a choice.
"And . . . "you for what you truly are! "
Yes – that I am the one advocating pace and harmony!
And you are the one calling for death and destruction."
You shall be held accountable for that statement of intent/ motivation.
Peace and harmony where? Also in Islamic countries?
How? In the Islamic way? Or in a democratic way? Or in a way that is consistent with both ways?
Is it your belief that peace and harmony best can be achieved by submission to Islam or in co-existence with equal rights for people of many different religions/ ways of life?
If peace and harmony are what you want to promote, and if promoting/ defending Islam at all costs is in conflict with that, perhaps in your view only in the short run, which will you choose; peace and harmony or promoting/ defending Islam?
and people like knowtheenemy never intent death and destruction, not even of Muslims, they just want a religion, islam, to undergo criticism, verbal insults. That is only right, for every religion, all beliefsystems.
And verbal warfare is a good alternative for violent warfare which is wrong, to which we almost all agree here. And it is also wrong to me and many here to try to defend religions/ ways of life, beliefsystems with censorship, or discouragement and obstruction of criticism by calling that criticism wrong and hatemongering.
Of course the response to that is: But insulting is different from constructive criticism. But the problem with that is: who decides where the border is?
And also; can this be enforced worldwide? Because when in the democratic world censorship succeeds and at the same time insulting to Israel and the West is allowed to go on in Islamic countries, that would make the situation only worse.
And if censorship is not universally feasible, it should not be enforced anywhere in this totally interconnected world of today.
Very interesting. First of all, you may be right, and Islam indeed may grow, in numbers and in proportion of mankind, that seems to hover between 22 % and 28 % now and in the future.
You can juxtapose the influence of counterjihadists like us and islam-apologists like you and say they cancel each other out.
But we can juxtapose disinterest, taken for granted-ness-Islam-ignorance and much increased awareness and knowledge about Islam which has soared among all of mankind. A mankind now much better educated, more knowledgeable, on average more intelligent than in any other period of history.
where will this eventually lead to in the 21st century? Where should it lead to? To at least a fair, broad, balanced evaluation of both Islam and it's alternatives by the vast majority of humans?
Will Islam achieve world-domination? And how far in the future shall we try to look? Is Islam set to grow until judgement day? What if judgement day never comes in the 21st century?
It's not so easy to defend Islam, against a constant barrage of criticisms, is it?
And you already said; "one get's weary of batting them away".
"As I have conclusively and successfully prove – the only "deceiver" is you.
Your BS – becomes exposed – when highlighted and shown."
But how does this work? Describe CONCLUSIVELY. Even if you successfully proved that Ali Sina "deceived" somewhere, then that is not about ALL he asserts, only a part. What then about the rest that he says, OR JUST presents from other people's opinions and testimony?
Ali Sina's "oeuvre" is very big and you have only scratched the surface. Many of his opinions on issues are shared by many other people, even by many and often leading Atheists and Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and divers, we've had posters on FFI from all of these.
But you still seem to depend for much of your arguments on discrediting this specific "messenger" so that readers are persuaded to assume ALL he is saying is false?
But if you openly depend on that you admit committing ad hominem-fallacy; attacking the messengers and his demerits, instead of focusing on and thus DEFLECTING from the message and it's merits and demerits. The messenger can be anything; a liar, criminal, hateful, violent, stupid, but some of his messages can still be truthful and valuable.
"You can also say that in this way, before Ali Sina and others condemn one evil and heinous act of muslims, before the pot starts getting cold, muslims committ another more heinous and more condemnable act. They are faster than Ali Sina. "
Sure like this act:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AbBqXMBT2I
Ali said "The beauty about Ali Sina's articles is that just when the pot starts getting cold, he warms it up with more garbage and puts the pitch in for his movie."
You can also say that in this way, before Ali Sina and others condemn one evil and heinous act of muslims, before the pot starts getting cold, muslims committ another more heinous and more condemnable act. They are faster than Ali Sina.
"That is impossible because that filth is in the Quran and if Muslims clear it from their minds it means they have to leave Islam. They are really trapped in this filth. "
As I have conclusively and successfully prove – the only "deceiver" is you.
Your BS – becomes exposed – when highlighted and shown.
– – –
Your non-violence is a lip service and a clear lie.
When it came to it . . .. what did you say?
If you were president of USA you would bomb Muslim countries to subjugation.
– – –
What I had been saying about you all along.
The confirmation that I was right is HARDLY a surprise.
” Clear the filth in your mind.”
That is impossible because that filth is in the Quran and if Muslims clear it from their minds it means they have to leave Islam. They are really trapped in this filth.
true zaki and hamza are biggest joke in the town.
As per Islam God is not in his creation. So Kabirdas was wrong.
so kabirdas is wrong because he contradicts islam?
is this the kind of argument muslim do? what a shame you people don't have any brain.
because you are a non muslim and you are supposed to be subjugated by muslim
"You can deny responsibility all you want but most people at this site have seen you for what you truly are! "
And what responsibility have I denied?
Not ashamed to lie a little are you?
And . . . "you for what you truly are! "
Yes – that I am the one advocating pace and harmony!
And you are the one calling for death and destruction.
– – –
"These are only a few recent examples. This s**t happens every day involving Muslims! Does one need to know more to realize what to expect under Islam?? "
Doh!
– – –
http://www.ellwoodcityledger.com/news/national/ob…
Redundancy of your argument . . .
and its fallacy
has long been exposed.
– – –
Hence you repeat this one thing over and over. . .
Then find excuses when you are challenged.
– – –
Deep down it must hurt – to know you cannot even out-smart a Muslim whom you deeply despise!
"
If history teaches anything, Hindus have always crushed savages, savagely. We will do same with Islam.
"
"The more I learn about Islam, and see what it does to its followers, the deeper and darker my hate for Islam becomes. Currently it is pitch black! "
This is PROJECTING your hate on to others.
This is how Hitler demonized Jews.
– – –
Hence why your hate is NOT just limited to Islam . ..
You have EVEN invented an excuse to throw this at Muslims!
– – –
hence I was exactly right about you – as I was about Sina!
– – –
You will be a in a smallish room – sitting alone – writing such hate.
A distorted person.
"Actually, I grew up in an environment where they told me about Gandhi's message, and Guru Nanak's and Kabir's message! "
Which you clearly reject.
– – –
"It was only after I befriended Muslims and was friends with them for quite a while (I even lived with Pakistani roommates for almost two years) that it became apparent that they were different in a weird way."
This is a very common and invented lie. Many "racists" for example use it . . .
– – –
" It was in those days of suspicion that I came across faithfreedom.org and realized what was really going on. Now everything that I found unusual about Muslims unraveled, and I came to know of the evil nature of Islam. "
See how GENERAL your BS is . . .
There is nothing specific about it.
– – –
This is a site of hatemonger. . . . who has clear "issues"
– – –
You were brought up by a deeply hateful religion – that taught you this hate.
This living with Muslims is just an excuse. . . .
"This evil is called ISLAM!
… and those protecting Islam, especially the educated ones! "
No sonny – that evil is YOU – the gun maker plays role . . . . but it is ALWAYS the one pulling the trigger that is responsible.
– – –
It is how HITLER justified his crimes.
There is NO difference as far the hate goes between oyu nad him.
You are simply a lonely, little Hindu man.
He came to power.
This is why I say – read the small print where people like you are concerned.
On one had these were great people . . . on the other hand . . . .
" For example, regarding educated people who support/protect Islam, I believe that they should be despised! "
Something which NONE of these er . . . great people would advocate. Which means you don't really consider them great. . . you are simply toeing to the expected line.
– – –
"I am influenced by many ideas besides theirs. It is the sum total of all these ideas that gives me a footprint of how to live my life."
Which in the end is to follow likes of Sina!
A hate-monger.
– – –
"I never denied their greatness, and I would only be happy if someone decides to learn from their teachings. It would only make the world better for all!"
Then why don't you go an do that . . . ?
"Most of the time this statement is true, but not always! When you use your influence and brainwash someone deep enough, especially from childhood, then it the brainwasher who is responsible. Other times both the person(s) taking the action and the entity brainwashing them is responsible. "
As you were brainwashed to hate Muslims . . . and it comes GUSHING out.
– – –
"The educated Muslims have the resources to identify where the problem lies, and use their influence to gradually bring change in their societies. But not only they do NOT make any such efforts, they demonize others who do make such efforts. They are far more responsible for the evil coming from Islamic societies than the ordinary Muslims. "
Which is utter meaningless BS.
You complicate yourself in such thinking.
When I unravel it – then you have no answer.
– – –
"And your attempt to demonize me proves that you are one such educated Muslim! "
Doh! He didn't. . . . one can make the same case for you. . . your crescendo was to have a go back at him!
"I have a killer story. Actually if Muslims were rational they won’t be even offended by it."
Doh! – You keep the pretense of being rational . . . why don't you give this line a going over. Think about it.
Rationality IS NOT depended on what you come up with. Hence the sentence is absurd.
You regularly come up with such lines.
– – –
"I only dramatized what is written in his biographies without embellishing it or changing it."
One can guess .. . .
doh!
I listened to your views over the methodology employed in your book. . . . it is FUNDAMENTALLY flawed.
Absurd and illogical.
The thing is – it became clear – you do NOT even have the concept of Academia is all about.
Hence – if the successful failure of the book is anything to go by . . . you "movie" will be nothing short of one sided mess.
Look at how badly your book is researched. . .
You put the name of Muhammad to Qutham – evidence? A Youtube video!
Oh really – how pathetic. I did the leg work of exposing that!
Hence – if it based on the book . . . . GOOD LUCK! You will need it.
– – –
"I also eliminated much of what I consider stupid in Islamic literature such as the father and uncle of Safiyah discussing with each other and admitting that Muhammad is their promised prophet and at the end deciding to oppose him at all costs. This stupid tale and may others like this can only be believed by brain dead Muslims. "
What did I say. . . . . !
W have the book . . . you claim Muslims are afraid to read it . . . BS but . . . . look at how littely your own supporters have read it!
I mean – there was ONCE one person willing to discuss it. . . .even she bailed out and has long since disappeared.
So even your alleged supporters don't bother to discuss either you articles or your book. As they come with their own axe's to grind.
– – –
"This is going to be a great movie. $10 million is my budget. It was done by professionals and I trust her estimation. We could spend more, but I see no reason for that. It is possible that this movie become the most seen movie in history. And why not? "
Ha ha ha . . . . does anyone else get this poor delusional fool!
Hence why you sold yourself to Spencer and acquired his views.
Hence the hypocritical support of Christianity. Which DID NOT used to exist.
This is why . . . . Obama's birth certificate – so nicely describes your hypocrisy.
@denilaisnoproof.
We doesn't come into it. You have no say in the matter.
The only thing you can do is abuse your ammi and abba and the rest of the clan whilst you are at it.
You are so accustomed to doing your ammi and co, you think everyone else has your habits and morals.
You can by all means stick the ostrich egg in your ammi's puuddee, but don't expect everyone else to follow suit. Keep your Hindu beliefs and traditions to yourself ghaandoo!
continued…………
As far as the challenge of the Quran is concerned, The criteria is very simple. You must produce something LIKE that of the Quranic surah, of which Al Kauthar is the shortest.
To begin with, the Arabic language and Arab speech are divided into two branches. One of them is rhymed poetry. It is a speech with metre and rhyme, which means every line of it ends upon a definite letter, which is called the 'rhyme'. This rhymed poetry is again divided into metres or what is called as al-Bihar, literally meaning 'The Seas'. This is so called because of the way the poetry moves according to the rhythmic patterns.
The following are the sixteen al-Bihar (literally "The Seas", so called because of the way the poem moves, according to its rhythmic patterns): at-Tawil, al-Bassit, al-Wafir, al-Kamil, ar-Rajs, al-Khafif, al-Hazaj, al-Muttakarib, al-Munsarih, al-Muktatab, al-Muktadarak, al-Madid, al-Mujtath, al-Ramel, al-Khabab and as-Saria'.
So the challenge is to produce in Arabic, three lines, that do not fall into one of these sixteen Bihar, that is not rhyming prose, nor like the speech of soothsayers, and not normal speech, that it should contain at least a comprehensible meaning and rhetoric, i.e. not gobbledygook.
The other branch of Arabic speech is prose, that is non-metrical speech. The prose may be a rhymed prose. Rhymed prose consists of cola ending on the same rhyme throughout, or of sentences rhymed in pairs. This is called "rhymed prose" or saj. Prose may also be straight prose (mursal). In straight prose, the speech goes on and is not divided in cola, but is continued straight through without any divisions, either of rhyme or of anything else. Prose is employed in sermons and prayers and in speeches intended for the masses.
It is a well known fact that the Quran was revealed in seven ahruf (or seven forms) to facilitate greater understanding of it among the Arabs who had different dialects. This was also to challenge them on their own grounds to produce a surah like that of the Quran. The challenge became more obvious when none of the seven major tribes could imitate it even in their own dialects as no one could claim that it was difficult to imitate due to it not being in their own dialect.
The style of the Quran is universally recognised as a completely separate one, a genre in its own right and it's own style.
Musaylimah (ibn al-Qays), a contemporary of Mohammed, Ibn al-Muqaffa, the prominent Arabic prose writer (died in 139/756), Abul -ala al-Ma’arri (who died in 449/1057), Ebn Hazm, ol-Khayyat, Taha Hussein (1889-1973), Ali Dashti, (1894-1982), are just few of those who claim to challenge of the Holy Qur’an, unaware of its extent or their limits.
And as far as the suralikeit.com website you posted, I suggest you translate the Arabic into English to see the real joke of them. If you are struggling, I'll do it for you.
But to be fair Loki, you can by all means come up with something and meet the challenge if you so wish.
The floor is yours.
@Loki
The Israelites recorded their crimes in detail in their own history. Here are just a few examples from the Bible:
(1) After the death of Solomon the state of the Israelites was split into two: the State of Judah with its capital in Jerusalem, and the State of Israel with its capital in Samaria. This was followed by a series of wars between the two States so that the State of Judah sought the assistance of the Aramacan State of Damascus against its own kinsmen. At this, Hamani the seer went under God's direction to Asa the king and rebuked him. Instead of rectifying his behaviour, Asa was so angry that he put the seer in the stocks.
( 2 Chronicles 16: 7-10.)
(2) When Elijah denounced the Jews for their worship of Baal and invited them to retun to monotheism, Ahab, the king of Israel pursued him for the sake of his pagan wife so that he had to take refuge in the mountains of the Sinai peninsula. On this occasion, according to the Bible, he said: '. . . the people of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thy altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword., and 1, even 1 only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away' (1 Kings 19: 14).
(3) The same king Ahab imprisoned another Prophet, Micah, for no other reason than that of speaking the truth. King Ahab ordered that he should be given only bread and water. (See 1 Kings 22: 26-7)
(4) When idol-worship and moral corruption became prevalent in Judah and the Prophet Zechariah raised his voice against them, he was stoned to death in the very court of the house of the Lord. (See 2 Chronicles 24: 2l.)
(5) When the Israelite State of Samaria was wiped out by the State of Jerusalem, the Prophet Jeremiah deplored the condition of the Israelites. He warned them that it was time they set about mending their ways otherwise they would face an even more calamitous end than that of Samaria. The response to this sincere preaching was abuse and curses: he was beaten, imprisoned, put in the stocks and lowered by ropes into a cistern, where he was left to die of hunger and thirst. He was also accused of various crimes, including treason and conspiracy. (See Jeremiah 15: 10; 18: 20-3; 20: 1-18; 36-40)
(6) It is reported of another Prophet, Amos, that when he denounced the widespread errors and corruption in the State of Samaria and warned of the evil consequences that follow such misdeeds, he was condemned to exile and told to pursue his prophetic task somewhere beyond its frontiers. (See Amos 7: 10-13.)
(7) When John the Baptist protested against the acts of moral corruption that were brazenly practised in his court, Herod, the ruler of Judah, first put John into prison, then had him beheaded at the request of a dancing girl, and had his head set on a platter and presented to the girl. (See Mark 6: 17-29)
(8) The same hostility to Prophets is evident from the life of Jesus. The priests and political leaders of Israel ultimately became inflamed against Jesus, who criticized them for their impiety and hypocrisy and invited them to true faith and riahteousness. It was this which piompted them to prepare a false case against him and persuade the Romans to sign a death sentence. Later, when the Roman governor, Pilate, asked them which of the two prisoners – Jesus or Barabbas, a notorious brigand – should be released on the occasion of the feast, they asked for the release of Barabbas and for the crucifixion of Jesus (Matthew 27: 20-6).
This is a shameful chapter in the record of the Jewish nation, to which the Qur'an refers here in passing. It is evident that when a nation chooses its most notoriously criminal and wicked people for positions of leadership, and its righteous and holy men for gaol and the scaffold, God has no alternative but to lay His curse and damnation on that nation.
You seem to be hellbent on only Moses and Jesus Loki? They were not the only Prophets sent to the Jews.
I saw in the news paper ,there was a Muslim women's strike in Bombay to make a law ,for the compulsory registrations of Muslim marriages with the registrar .The lady was explaining ,"My husband is drunkard ,if I say him not to drink ,he threatens me with Talaq . "One day he uttered talaq for three time's and since then we are separated ,i am virtually on road along with my children"..Another lady was expressing ,"If my husband gives me Talaq ,and later on wish to merry me again,even if I wish to marry him I can't because ,the sharia say's I must merry some one else prior and took talaq (Provided he is ready to talaq) from him and, then perhaps remarry my former hubby .What kind of primitive thinking this is (Sharia) and you want it to happen in India in the form of law .I am sick of you,I want audience poll in this matter.
In his book "Negation in India" Famous Belgian historian Koenraad Elst wrote:
The Blitzkrieg of the Muslim armies in the first decades after the birth of their religion had such enduring results precisely because the Pagan populations in West- and Central-Asia had no choice (except death) but to convert. Whatever the converts' own resentment, their children grew up as Muslims and gradually identified with this religion. Within a few generations the initial resistance against these forcible converions was forgotten, and these areas became heidenfrei (free from Pagans, cfr. judenfrei).
The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter. The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on.
According to some calculations, the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate).
But the Indian Pagans were far too numerous and never fully surrendered. Against these rebellious Pagans the Muslim rulers preferred to avoid total confrontation, and to accept the compromise which the (in India dominant) Hanifite school of Islamic law made possible.
Alone among the four Islamic law schools, the school of Hanifa gave Muslim rulers the right not to offer the Pagans the sole choice between death and conversion, but to allow them toleration as zimmis (protected ones) living under 20 humiliating conditions, and to collect the jizya (toleration tax) from them.
Normally the zimmi status was only open to Jews and Christians (and even that concession was condemned by jurists of the Hanbalite school like lbn Taymiya), which explains why these communities have survived in Muslim countries while most other religions have not. Akbar (whom orthodox Muslims consider an apostate) cancelled these humiliating conditions and the jizya tax.
It is because of Hanifite law that many Muslim rulers in India considered themselves exempted from the duty to continue the genocide on the Hindus (self-exemption for which they were persistently reprimanded by their mullahs). Moreover, the Turkish and Afghan invaders also fought each other, so they often had to ally themselves with accursed unbelievers against fellow Muslims. After the conquests, Islamic occupation gradually lost its character of a total campaign to destroy the Pagans.
Many Muslim rulers preferred to enjoy the revenue from stable and prosperous kingdoms, and were content to extract the jizya tax, and to limit their conversion effort to material incentives and support to the missionary campaigns of sufis and mullahs (in fact, for less zealous rulers, the jizya was an incentive to discourage conversions, as these would mean a loss of revenue).
Unlike Muslims Hindus are not commanded to subjugate, forcibly convert, or slaughter all non Hindus!
Quran (9:5) – "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلأَشْهُرُ ٱلْحُرُمُ فَٱقْتُلُواْ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَٱحْصُرُوهُمْ وَٱقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَٰوةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّكَٰوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Then, when the sacred months have passed — that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment — slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam; and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush, [at every] route that they use (kulla, ‘every’, is in the accusative because a [preceding] genitive-taking preposition has been removed). But if they repent, of unbelief, and establish prayer and pay the alms, then leave their way free, and do not interfere with them. God is Forgiving, Merciful, to those who repent.
I never labeled all Muslims the same. I am presenting the evidence against your fascist,bigoted, misogynistic, backward, perverted, illogical, intolerant, violent Ideology known as Islam! And there is no stand off. Amin exposes himself by deflecting from the topic and using ad hominems in order to not debate the topics!
Vedas may be written by man, like any other 'holy' book, but it's written more than 3000 years ago according to historians. It's not a 18th century book 🙂
Ask him what was the result of the movie "Gandhi" and what was the result of the movie
" Mohammed Ali Zinha"
"And Jews are Prophet slayers. This is a fact. Did they not kill their Prophets?"
Firstly that isn't a fact.Moses or Jesus aren't even historically established.No historical document contemporary of Jesus or Moses exists.
Even if we assume the last sentence is true, does that make a Jewish newborn guilty of something that was committed centuries ago? Does that have any relevance to Jews today. Clear the filth in your mind. By that logic every human race/country will fight every other because at some point in history everyone fought his neighbor at least once.
"You can first start with meeting the challenge of the Quran"
That challenge is a farce.It doesn't give the criteria of how to judge if another Surah is like it.
Who'll be the judge?It doesn't say that either.More than once Arabs have claimed to create Surahs like those in the Quran.Even today some exist:- http://suralikeit.com/
More importantly, literature or any form of art can't be compared.Can we compare Keats to Yeats?Chekov to Caroll?Tolstoy to Dickens?Maupassant to Poe?
Son of a nikah prostitute. zakir is allowed to bark because we give him right to bark .
now ask your mum to put ostrich egg in her vagina and also put a oblate spheroid of the same volume . ask her whether halal vagina feels the same? I like to spit on you , your mums halal vagina , zakir liars pseudoscience face, shamelessly clapping muslim bastards who clap at every nonsense zakir choothiya tells . and you dirty muslim child rapist followers are worst creatures.
Don't worry Mr Sina ,if 1.5 billion people escape( I don't use the term "skipping"here ,it wont suit with these narcissist lot's) from seeing your movie,at least 4.5 billion people will certainly see it ,and you will become billionaire no doubt.
And who told you people here give a rat's behind about following what's written in Quran?
We don't give a damn if some one is kufr or not.You believe that the creator of this Universe is so small that he burns everyone who don't bow to him.Sounds like a dictator so evil that the world has yet to witness?You believe,you're free to.But don't give us that bunch of crap.
Now there is no Gandhi to cool down Hindu's ,Modi had occupied the scene ,think twice.
The only reason Islam grows today is because of high birth rate.Its number of converts and apostates almost balance each other.
What's so great about that?
"Islam can be understood either you should have IQ 189+ or you should just believe!"
I don't think your IQ is 189 or more?
So that's what you do – you just believe in Islam. That's honest and that's rare coming from you.
That's better than the Zakir Naiks or the Hamza Tzortzis' who claim "scientific proof of Islam" and become the biggest jokes in town.
You don't have to try so hard for exposing Amin.
All he does is quote a comment and then give his own commentary.On a few occasions he does show a semblance of intelligence,but mostly all he comes up with is opinion.Posting a lot doesn't give credibility.Repeating a lie doesn't make it a truth.
The issue here is not accuracy of the movie. There are millions of movies. How many present all the facts correctly?
Remember South Park? Rushdie? Taslima? Theo Van Gogh? Danish Cartoonists?
Why should a religion be beyond criticism?
The issue is that religion and religious figures have to be brought down to the level where they can be analyzed and criticized. The taboo of not discussing the evils of religion or such personalities whom we have elevated to high pedestal has to go. No personality or ideology has the license to be beyond criticism.
Without criticism of the evils of the past and learning from past goods, we can't progress.
How can God protect him when he openly denies Gods existence Joe?
What you should be saying is that you hope nothing protects him because he believes in nothing. He should be praying to nothing. He doesn't even have a measuring yard stick. At least we do, for better or worse.
A Christian batting for a hatemongering Atheist. Now that's a first?
Islamic son of a nikah prostitute , zakir naik is allowed to speak his nonsense in india because we have of freedom of religion.
ZAKIR naiks ostrich egg shaped earth should be put moms vagina and also A oblate spheroid of same size should be put in your moms vagina and ask her if she feels same.
dirty muslim thinks zakir is a great hero , he speaks because we allow him to speak.
shameless muslim idiot
Zakir Naik is lambasting the dirty pagan Hindus on a daily basis. His work is poetry in motion and the best part is, Hindus like denialisnoproof are sickened to their back teeth and keep melting each time they hear Zakir Naiks name. Just like the wicked witch in Wizard of Oz. (I had to mention that as Hindus can only relate to mythology and fiction in most part).
Bravo Zakir Naik. Keep up the good work. Let the dik worshipping Hindus come out of the darkness and into the light (Islam).
Maybe if we showed them something with 20 heads, 40 arms and 60 legs with both female and male genitals, they will believe. After all, that is what they are accustomed to and can only realte to BS!
you muslims are obeying the command of child rapist.
who is also a alter ego of a pimp allah who promise you big breasted virgins.
your prophet was a criminal go read your hadiths idiot.
We Muslim are obeying command of Allah and our prophet (PBUH). If you act in the line of Quran we do not have any problem with that person, community, society etc.
true you muslims are pieces of sh1ts. again zaki bhai will act as second jinnah and create one more bastard state called pakistan.
guess what this time we won't let you rat breeders to stay in india.
we will throw all you back to your desert.
Now again Muslim population has raised around 20 crores. Now, Muslim are entitle to have separate nation for themselves where they can form laws according to sharia. Bhai Zakir Naik will act as 2nd Jinha for the Islam.
Bravo to Zakir Naik.
muslims already took separate nation all muslims of india should move there.
"Muslim in India have no freedom of following their faith"
slave of child rapist prophet is talking about freedom of faith.
Muslim in India have no freedom of following their faith. In India laws are anti-Islam. I think Muslim in India should demand separate nation for themselves where they can form laws according to sharia. Very soon such demand will arise. I am hopeful.
sure muslims get what they deserve in india. but why don't muslims get out of india .
as they took two separate nation for themselves. why are muslims from pakistan standing in queue to come to india
islam is the only true religion of shit.
your muhammad is a rapist , your allah is a psycho.
and islam and quran has been trashed by many people.
also your muhammad was so worried that he is going to hell .
troll
yet you couldn't disprove any of them what a shame.
dear muslim we are not living on ostrich egg shaped earth like you muslims.
your "prophet" fought for profit
now because of his example and If the quran was the word of God and so perfect why does islam have to kill so many people?
why are muslims killing muslims ( iraq, syria, iran, lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, pakistan, india, indonesia, sudan, niger, morroco, saudi arabia, palistine, and xxxstans) .. and more
why are muslims killing budhists (thialand, burma, china)
why are muslims killing hindus (india, pakistan, cashmire)
why are muslims killing christians ( iraq, syria, iran, lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, pakistan, india, indonesia, sudan, niger, morroco, saudi arabia, palistine, stans, russia, america, bali, spain, london, france, nigeria, south sudan, phillipines, and more)
if the quran is so perfect why must a man with a sword force people to become muslim?
if the quran is so perfect why would anyone ever apostate?
if the quran is so perfect why are 1.6 billion of the poorest people muslim?
maybe the quran is crule joke by a man called mohammad who like hilter put himself above God! SHIRK
i pray that this happens and you are rewarded with blesses and riches beyond your dreams Ali Sina..
Millions of sould will shout for joy that the truth is told about his blood thirsty cult.. I pray that the angles of God protect you and give your guidance.
the truth about mohamad needs to be told so that the world can move on released from this violent cult that destroys everything in its path.
You can not do any thing Hindus! you are ruled by Gandhis.
"Everyone is responsible for their own actions" – Most of the time this statement is true, but not always! When you use your influence and brainwash someone deep enough, especially from childhood, then it the brainwasher who is responsible. Other times both the person(s) taking the action and the entity brainwashing them is responsible.
The same is true when you DON'T use your influence to keep people from doing evil things. The educated Muslims have the resources to identify where the problem lies, and use their influence to gradually bring change in their societies. But not only they do NOT make any such efforts, they demonize others who do make such efforts. They are far more responsible for the evil coming from Islamic societies than the ordinary Muslims.
And your attempt to demonize me proves that you are one such educated Muslim!
Avatar had a beautiful story. It took you to a world of dreams.
Titanic’s greatness was about the love story and Celine Dion
Harry potter was a great movie because it was a great children story -the only book that was sold more than the Bible. (I am not sure about this, just saying).
The same is true about other movies. Special effect is only one element. The most important element is the story. Take the example of Paranormal Activities. It cost $15,000 to produces and sold $200, 000,000.
On the other hand Walt Disney spent $150,000,000 on Mars Needs Moms and sold less than $40,000,000.
It is not how much you spend on a movie. At the end people must want to see it. How much was the budget of Sunset Boulevard, Chinatown or Vertigo? They were not expensive movies to make and they became classic because of the story. The story is what makes the movie, the rest is bells and whistles.
Over four years ago a Bahraini announced that he is going to spend $150,000,000 to make a biopic of Muhammad. He wanted to hire the producer of Matrix. After doing some market research they realized they won’t be able to recoup their investment and gave up. On the other hand a stupid low budget trailer, like Innocence of Muslims, was seen by millions.
In the real estate, what counts is location, location, location. In movies, it is story, story, story. I have a killer story. Actually if Muslims were rational they won’t be even offended by it. I have not shown Muhammad in a bad light nor have I tried to mock and ridicule him. I don’t want to insult the intelligence of my audience with these silly things as the Innocence of Muslims has done. This movie portrays Muhammad as a human being, not as a villain and not as a holy man.
I only dramatized what is written in his biographies without embellishing it or changing it. Muhammad’s words are all documented and referenced. Anyone can stop the video and check the sources to make sure I am not making things up. A subtitle will display the source of the story and the page number. The comments of Muhammad’s foes are not 100% accurate and that is because Muslim historians could not have known what is in the heart of the victims of Muhammad. So I put myself in their place and wondered what they would have thought and said to each other when besieged by Muslims knowing their death is close. I also eliminated much of what I consider stupid in Islamic literature such as the father and uncle of Safiyah discussing with each other and admitting that Muhammad is their promised prophet and at the end deciding to oppose him at all costs. This stupid tale and may others like this can only be believed by brain dead Muslims.
This is going to be a great movie. $10 million is my budget. It was done by professionals and I trust her estimation. We could spend more, but I see no reason for that. It is possible that this movie become the most seen movie in history. And why not?
Come on Ali Sina!
The top ten grossing films of all time all were tecnological marvels. Do you have any idea what they were?
Here you go:
1Avatar
2Titanic
3The Avengers
4Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2
5Transformers: Dark of the Moon
6The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
7The Dark Knight Rises
8Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
9Toy Story 3
10Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides
People do go to the theatre to watch special effects amongst other reasons. To further compund this belief, the video game industry is a multi billion dollar industry. World of Warcraft has grossed over $10 billion to date and Call of Duty Black Ops over $1.5 billion to date. Some of these games are even more lucrative than the top grossing Hollywood movies. And these are technologically advanced gaming franchises using the latest and best of technology.
Yes, people do want to see facts as well as fiction. The Qatari movie will be factual, whereas your movie will be fictional.
If your movie even made the investors break even, it can be classed as successful. However, you'll be lucky to get this far. The reality is, people will get duped into paying to watch your movie because of all the hoo haa you will create. You will con them into paying to see lies, which in turn will fulfill the publics curiousity. Curiousity killed the cat! This is the only way you will make some income. If ever you were to put it up for free, you'll be lucky to get a few thousand viewers.
Of course your movie will change the course of history. Islam will grow even faster, you will go into deeper hiding and the whole world will get to know what a fraud and conman you really are.
I don't expect you to admit defeat at this stage as the gravy train is just too tempting for you. You have no other way of earning. The book is a flop, so the movie has to be bigged up in order to keep the gullible interested.
A new website showing Hindu war against Islam. http://www.hinduhistory.info/
If history teaches anything, Hindus have always crushed savages, savagely. We will do same with Islam.
Allah is demon. Shame on you demon worshiper.
Islam thy name is deception.
Muslims in India has 2 choice. Leave Islam and Join Hindus or get crushed by Narendra Modi after 2014.
It's about Vedas ,the only revelation of god to man.(Koran is fraud). Agniveer occupies considerable cyber space. Ignore them at Islam's peril.
Which is a stupid thing to say as you are responsible for your own actions. In this case it is not Islam but you, yourself. People like you justify great evil in such ways. These are same words and tactics people like Hitler used to denegrade Jewish people.
It is not about technology. It is about facts. People don’t go to theaters to watch special effects. The best movies are the ones with a great story. The Qatari guy will lose a lot of money over his movie because no one gives a damn to watch another Islamic lie. But my low to medium budget movie will make a lot of money for its investors. It is possible that I sell tens, if not hundreds of millions of copies. That is big money.
Some of the people who read my script said, it will change the course of history. It is accurate, entertaining and humorous. People want to see a good movie about Muhammad that is truthful and informative, not watch the usual Islamic crap, filled with lies.
We will go only by what you have stated above:
1) Why amputation is allowed in half a dozen muslim only countries, if not prescribed and practiced by your muham(mad)?
2) In suicide bombings, on the one hand the jihadists willingly participate for the reward of virgins in the heaven and on the other hand muslims tie bombs to the innocent children also, to kill the target and eventually the children. How the twin towers were destroyed along with 3000 people in them? barbarians.
3) Veiling: What is modest clothing? Why your brother jihadists kill the girls in afghanistan?
4) Stoning is not mentioned in quran. OK. why is it practiced only in muslim countries?
5) Apostasy is punished by death only in islam (either based on quran or hadith). Why? Are you afraid that your trade secrets will be spilled out?
Why do you muslims become so intolerant when there is a small criticism or analysis about islam and your muham(mad)?
So the God is limited by Heaven ? Occupies some definite spaces ? So has some form ? What about the God providing you food from dirt or soil via latrine or manure ? Any way as you said that the God controls the world. So power of the God comes out from sky to earth. Is that sphere of influence not the body of that God ? As I follow Sufism so will just give you to read the Holy Quran Chapter 10, Verse 99 and 100. 99If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!
100No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand. If some one is Hindu then as you say that it is in the control of the God.
Anyway as Dr Sina said that Dr Naik explained one thing in many different explantion so such are lies and we find that anti Islam guys also given multiple explanations. For me it is just human nature. That lead to the divergent views between Ahle Sunnat and Ahle Hadith.
From your perception please inform me that how long more it take to make Indian Subcontinent under Unified Islamic State and after what period you expect it in the whole world.
Many scriptures like bible, bhagavat gita, Dhammapada etc are translated into various languages including English. There are no problems or confusions in understanding them.
Why all the problems arise when one does read the English translation of your quran and that too when the translations are done only by your own muslims? What is wrong with quran and its translations?
Did your allah not know that there are other languages which can convey the subject in a better way and that there would be English which would be widely spoken by the people of many countries?
Even though the preferred language of your allah was arabic, he could have chosen one more language to tell the quran, to avoid confusions in the so claimed "clear book"?
@searchforthetruth.
Let's just cut to the chase.
What was your challenge?
Enough of this you said, I said, playground Mexican stand off.
Let's hear your challenge, as you seem to be quick at labeling ALL Muslims under the same umbrella. (a bit like Ali Sina)
Just so that we can rub a bit more salt into your wound Ali Sina, Qatar has announced that they will be producing a movie on the life and teachings of Prophet Mohammed. Their budget is $1 Billion dollars, yes $1 Billion and the movie will be in seven parts and would be produced according to the highest international standards using the most sophisticated technical and audio-visual systems, according to the Chairman of the International Union of Muslim Scholars.
The movie will be in English, but it will be translated into several languages to ensure an international outreach, a company official said.
“We are aware of the fact that this (film) is a difficult and a challenging task,” Al Noor Holding said in September. “This is why we have consulted many famous Islamic scholars, among them Dr Al Qaradawi, who will guide us on the Sharia aspect of the film.”
Unlike you Ali Sina, who has consulted your Hindu rabid fans and yourself regarding your own film, which by the sounds of it and the struggling of your finances, should be no better than Nakoula's.
And please spare us the Blair Witch Project budget comparison, as you are not even in that league. Yes, quality over quantity is another angle you will use, but like I said before, the petro dollars will always put you in check each time you raise your ugly head, and this latest development is just another nail in your coffin. Crafting single high quality products tends to be expensive and time consuming, and must be sold at much higher, less attractive prices to the average consumer in order to be profitable. Lower quality work, produced quickly in outsourced factories with a minimal time commitment per product, tends to be far more tedious. Just like how your movie will be no doubt.
Not only will the movie by the Qataris be better quality, the quantity of money they will be spending will ensure no corners are cut. So it won't be quality over quantity, it will be quality AND quantity. Both elements that you cannot compete with.
The aim of this movie is to educate the masses, whilst the aim of your movie is to make a quick buck at the expense of Islam and Mohammed. Do you see the difference?
Turning in your grave would come to mind, but as you are still breathing and polluting the air whilst you are still around, you must be turning in your bed with extreme shock, disgust and horror.
If you still want to jump on the gravy train and keep fleecing, you'd better come up with a better plan or get some better financiers behind you. Otherwise, just like all your life, you'll be left standing in a web of self deceit holding your head in your hands thinking 'there must be a better way to earn a few bob and why me'?
Grab yourself a tissue and start wiping away the tears!
😉
@knowTheEnemy.
You seem to be clutching at straws at every turn. At least you are going down lying and fighting. That's more admirable than lying and hiding, like your Guru Sina.
What has the world learnt about Islam now that hey didn't know 20 years ago?
The only difference now is more people like you and your cohorts spread the filth and lies using the internet and media, but by the same token, more Muslims defend Islam against the likes of you lot. So you see, you will never ever be successful in your game plans and agendas.
I have said it before and will say it again, Islam has been growing for over 1400 years and it is not stopping now or in your lifetimes. It will and does continue to grow. No one can predict the future, even though you guys think you can, but in reality, no one can. So we have to judge the future with past trends. And what do those trends say?
Islam is set to grow. I'm not saying it and neither are Muslims saying it. History is saying it and the Non Muslims are saying it.
The sooner you accept it, the sooner you can get on with your life, rather than build your hatred which is most probably eating you alive everyday any way.
Find a different hobby. This one is evidently not working for you!
LOL!
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِنِ ٱنتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
But if they desist, from unbelief and become Muslims, surely God is Forgiving, Merciful, to them.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan
Just like I said before. We have three choices.
1. Become a fascist Muslim like yourself.
2. be subjugated, enslaved, or etorted from
3. or death!
Nice try again! But Islam, Mohamed, and your scholars refute you. you are actually arguing against them, not me!
* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ فَإِنِ ٱنتَهَوْاْ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
(But if they desist) from their disbelief, association of partners with Allah and turn to Allah (then lo! Allah is Forgiving) towards those who turn to Him, (Merciful) towards those who die in a state of repentance.
Tafsir Ibn 'Abbas, trans. Mokrane Guezzou
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan
You better call the Royal Al-Bayt Institute for Islamic thought and tell them they are incorrect about Islamic doctrine and that you are the new scholar who has the correct commentary! LOL! Tell them they have the wrong idea about Islam!
@Vijay
Where I said Allah is watchman? As per Islam Allah is above heavens and and he controls the all world from there. But final decision will be given on the day of judgment. You Hindu think God is omnipresent and control the world by to be omnipresent. This is completely wrong. By this theology you are assuming God in latrine, & dirt also.
ali
i know that muslims have no brain to think logically but to follow quran and behave like a donkey as ur allah thinks entire world is illiterate donkey like his beloved paedo puppet momad ,.
"On one hand you will hold these people up as models. . . . when your hate is made a mirror . . . you deny the EXACT same people"
—————-
Guru Nanak and Kabir were great people, and I respect them as much as I respect my parents. I never denied their greatness, and I would only be happy if someone decides to learn from their teachings. It would only make the world better for all!
However, as great as they were, they are NOT my role-models! I am influenced by many ideas besides theirs. It is the sum total of all these ideas that gives me a footprint of how to live my life. For example, regarding educated people who support/protect Islam, I believe that they should be despised!
"Which "Evil" asks you to justify hate as you have done?"
—————-
This evil is called ISLAM!
… and those protecting Islam, especially the educated ones!
"….hence you hold on to deep, dark hate."
—————-
The more I learn about Islam, and see what it does to its followers, the deeper and darker my hate for Islam becomes. Currently it is pitch black!
"Calling Islam – Evil is your hate – which you have been subjected to form birth. And that has turned YOU to hate others."
—————–
Actually, I grew up in an environment where they told me about Gandhi's message, and Guru Nanak's and Kabir's message! In India I believed that all terror attacks happen because political leaders lure poor people with money (for their families) into committing such attacks. I considered attacks on women to be backwardness of people. As I grew up, I also began distrusting religious leaders. But I never imagined that a religion itself could command someone to do such things.
I was in the US when 9/11 happened. But even that terrible attack did not make me suspect Islam. I thought those 9/11 hijackers were brainwashed by someone into doing this otherwise Muslims were just like any other people. It was only after I befriended Muslims and was friends with them for quite a while (I even lived with Pakistani roommates for almost two years) that it became apparent that they were different in a weird way. It was in those days of suspicion that I came across faithfreedom.org and realized what was really going on. Now everything that I found unusual about Muslims unraveled, and I came to know of the evil nature of Islam.
Ms Dr Ali Sina is right to say that truthfulness and wisdom is of paramount importance. I personally think that Intelligence do counts too. A battle lost or win depends on the strategist. Needless to say, , intelligent strategists are badly needed in order to save and deliver all those braindead zombies from this humongous Islamic sinkhole. Besides that, it is crucial that all the freedom fighters need to synergize. Afterall, two heads are better than one. Together, they can produce far better results that they could individually.
You can deny responsibility all you want but most people at this site have seen you for what you truly are! Most of the world has learnt plenty about Islam! Usually all one has to do to know about Islam is read the daily news. Here are the latest reports –
Pakistan bomb blast kills 21, injures 43
Saudi rights activist faces potential death penalty for apostasy charge
Also watch this video where Syrian 'freedom fighters' burn down Shia masjid-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjhGKoPGaLQ
These are only a few recent examples. This s**t happens every day involving Muslims! Does one need to know more to realize what to expect under Islam??
"See the hate monger could NOT keep hate out of his voice."
You keep repeating that Ali Sina and posters here are "hate mongers". While you say other humans, including non-Muslims are not that or doing that, in respect to Islam.
But "hate-mongering" is relevant to something. To the thing that is hated. When that is itself very bad/ evil/ disgusting/ even mongering hate itself, then hating that is often considered logical, valid, good, as it motivates people to reject and reduce the hated thing.
So; you should say something like "hatemongering against an innocent religion (because it is not the Muslims who are targeted, it is Islam), "hatemongering against "good" or "divine" ideas.
That should be your argument, not just "hatemongering" is "bad" in general and "they" are doing it.
I would like to give you two thumbs up, Joe
We must not treat the God as watchman for any of God's creation.
If Allah wants to destroy some thing no one can prevent. Rest of the things but Allah are created and destroyed.
Bro that means you do not want to talk to him. OK as you wish. By this thing often people like them claim that you have no answers to the issues raised by them. Arya Samaj claims that Sura Al Fateha is a translation from a verse in Vedas. They claim to be started from the God via Vedas and consider Islam to be Started(Astagfurallah) only 1400 year ago.
" But the educated ones ARE lesser!"
I missed this . . . .
"I do not consider the uneducated and illiterate Muslims as lesser, since they do their misdeeds out of ignorance. "
This does NOT make sense. What misdeeds?
– – –
The fact is I am right in pointing out – you HATE Muslims – indiscriminately.
It is SO obviously coming out.
Why?
Because you have been brainwashed.
– – –
This is why – you do NOT know much about Islam.
You don't really CARE about knowing about it either . . . getting you facts right.
When your lies are clearly exposed. . . . and you CANNOT answer . . . .
You still hold on to them.
I have shown that in the past.
You had NO answer . . . . to my objections of your arguments. Yet you still maintain the lie.
– – –
Hence I pointed out these general pronouncement of "Universal Love" types are just BS.
Get to the small print . . .. they become exposed.
Just like the above.
"I would rather be a 'hate-monger'! Everyone who wants a better future for world's children should HATE evil ideologies like Islam. We should also despise its supporters, especially the educated ones! "
Hence I was right . . . . you are a hate-monger – look you admit it.
Calling Islam – Evil is your hate – which you have been subjected to form birth. And that has turned YOU to hate others.
– – –
"Yeah right! As long as we live as good dhimmis and let you cut our throat, you will tolerate us. The moment we complain… we are 'hate-mongers'! "
Look at what you are complaining about:
"Kabir had seen equality among all human beings, he declared that everyone's God was one and the same God, so Guru Nanak thought THAT is what a good Muslim ends up believing. No wonder he asked Muslims to follow their faith deeply. "
Doh!
Like Sina when your projections are shattered – then you start spouting excuses . . . .hence you hold on to deep, dark hate.
Your arguments against Islam – are REPEATEDLY shown not to be true.
– –
What do you do?
Invent more excuses.
– – –
Would it not be better to go an learn something . . . rather than spouting hate!
Which "Evil" asks you to justify hate as you have done?
It is YOU justifying it . . . . YOU.
Go an give that a thought . . .
– – –
On one hand you will hold these people up as models. . . . when your hate is made a mirror . . . you deny the EXACT same people.
Gadhi, Nanak. . . . . and what not.
– – –
Hence you real master is Sina – hence you support him!
Look you are even speaking like him.
– – –
"All Muslims are dirty"
"All Muslims are Guilty"
. . . . guess what comes next!
"Forget 'Logic'"
I don't think you employed much in the 1st place!
– – –
"If the video that you posted is truly Hindus against Muslims, then the Muslims must be looking to escape India at the first chance available, as is going on with Hindus in Pakistan. "
Is it? Where?
Many Indian Muslims DO move- Middle East – Europe – America – Even some to ex Russian states.
– – –
"But what is truly going on is that Muslims from Islamic countries (e.g Bangladesh) are coming INTO India the first chance they get! Many prosper and thrive once they are inside India. "
Where? How many?
And another besides Bangladesh . . . ? As you comment implies – there are more.
– – –
"That alone shows how hollow your BS is! "
Really? How? And exactly which "BS"
As the thing to note is – you actually could NOT defend your argument – hence you started off on this new strand. . . .
But guess what you said:
Forget 'Logic'
Well – if you are forgetting logic . . . . isn't your argument automatically illogical!?
– – –
Yeah right! As long as we live as good dhimmis and let you cut our throat, you will tolerate us. The moment we complain… we are 'hate-mongers'!
I would rather be a 'hate-monger'! Everyone who wants a better future for world's children should HATE evil ideologies like Islam. We should also despise its supporters, especially the educated ones!
Forget 'Logic', I'll give you a simple example of how to use your brain-
If the video that you posted is truly Hindus against Muslims, then the Muslims must be looking to escape India at the first chance available, as is going on with Hindus in Pakistan. But what is truly going on is that Muslims from Islamic countries (e.g Bangladesh) are coming INTO India the first chance they get! Many prosper and thrive once they are inside India.
That alone shows how hollow your BS is!
"But the educated ones ARE lesser! The world is fast turning into hell, with Muslims suffering the most, all because of Islam."
Meaningless guff as usual – general nonsense.
– – –
"The educated Muslims are smart enough to see that it is Islam that is causing all this suffering yet they do NOTHING to help people ditch this 7th century evil superstition. "
This argument line is fallacious! Dearie – it is SIMPLY your view that Islam is the problem.
Obviously NOT theirs. . . .
You views do not equal facts.
– – –
"Why then, shouldn't I consider educated Muslims lesser?? "
Hence as I suspected – I was right – once again.
– – –
Your ability to reason!
I do not consider the uneducated and illiterate Muslims as lesser, since they do their misdeeds out of ignorance. But the educated ones ARE lesser! The world is fast turning into hell, with Muslims suffering the most, all because of Islam. The educated Muslims are smart enough to see that it is Islam that is causing all this suffering yet they do NOTHING to help people ditch this 7th century evil superstition.
Instead, they keep mum in the face of all suffering. In the west, where they can most easily challenge Islam and guide people into the 21st century, they choose to play politics and whine of Islamophobia and other such BS!
Why then, shouldn't I consider educated Muslims lesser??
Deception of hate mongers start right from title " Innocent Muslims" , "Innocent Prophet " "Faith freedom", " Religion of peace " "In the name of Allah" "The spirit of Islam" plenty.
"Any time you are ready I would be glad to educate you. Let;s do it. I am hear. Stick to the topic. I am deaf to your chest thumping. I have heard it from hundreds of Mohamedans. And they have never lived up to it. "
Doh!
See the how lying this is of you . .. . we have ALREADY engaged in a topic!
Hence how dishonest is this!
– – –
"Go ahead and present your argument to any and all of my factual statements. Are you attempting to create a red herring. "
You have read a few sites – anti Islamic
Then all you are doing is pasting one sided material.
As I have already shown.
– – –
And I have pointed in all place – where you simply paste names of fallacies and leave them at the end.
Which as well as lies is meaningless false accusations!
– – –
"There you go! Focusing on me instead of the topic! "
What topic?
So after all this time . . . so many messages – an suddenly this OCCURRED to you!
Doh!
– – –
"Would you like any more evidence? Just as I said. You have NO integrity! "
Ouch! But i have PROVEN this against you. . . . it is pretty apparent you are simply fond of repetition!
– – –
This is quite common!
"But you continued to attack me instead of the argument! That is an ad hominem! "
Where?
Show me the evidence?
Where have I attacked you . . .
I have challenged this at EVERY TURN . . .
Yet you DO NOT HAVE AN ANSWER . . . .
this is clearly a lie.
Where did I attack you so constantly?
– – –
"That is not an excuse! That is an accurate depiction of what occurred! "
Nope:
1. I never attacked you.
And after REPEATEDLY asking.
You have NOT been able to show it either.
2. You reduce the argument to just:
"I said you had no integrity in describing your bevior by your use of ad hominems to deflect from the topic. "
Yet I asked:
"aminriadh is running from a challenge that he said he would take. He is deflecting by character assassination and claiming my evidence is unclear in an attempt to flee from discourse. "
Which you clearly cannot answer.
– – –
"And I showed you that you were doing that! Go up and read my posts! How many times do i have to present the evidence before you will acknowledge it! Do you want me to go to every person you speak to and reveal how you constantly use this tactic? We can all do it! I have seen it in almost every one of your posts! "
Another lie – YOU HAVE NOT DONE SO ONCE.
You just claim it.
– – –
"See you have no integrity!
That is not an ad hominem! Because i am not deflecting from the topic! I am exposing your actions and attributes! LOL! "
huh!
In hich you called me ridiculous . . . which IS ad hominem – in a debate!
Then claimed that you were targeting my actions!
So every time – you "attack" me . . . this is NOT ad hominem . . . .
Wow – The sheer hypocrisy!
"Are you attempting to create a red herring. "
See even from the start – he throws in this.
People like this do this . . . . and will claim credence from such things. Meaningless.
– – –
PEOPLE LIKE THIS DO THIS!
State your argument to me clearly – anything I don't agree with I will refute it.
Go to comment
In reply to your comment:
Any time you are ready I would be glad to educate you. Let;s do it. I am hear. Stick to the topic. I am deaf to your chest thumping. I have heard it from hundreds of Mohamedans. And they have never lived up to it.
Go ahead and present your argument to any and all of my factual statements. Are you attempting to create a red herring.
Well you see what i said. Now refute it! I will be waiting!
There you go! Focusing on me instead of the topic!
Would you like any more evidence? Just as I said. You have NO integrity!
"To be consistent with you. This is a mess. Remember? "
Huh? This is meaningless rubbish and inidicaton – you have run out of argument.
Else how is this a mess:
"This my NOT occur to you . . . . But i have life – and there will be period when I am NOT here – and there will be periods I am here. "
– – –
"I am not using personal attacks to deflect from a debate! YOU ARE! "
Where?
Evidence?
You lob this false claim repeatedly – I ask for evidence. No you have none.
– – –
" I am using adjectives that accurately depict your use of ad hominems in your attempt to deflect from debate! "
Doh!
How silly of me! Not ot understand your excuses!
So you can vilify me – and that does NOT equal er . . . "Ad Hominem"
– – –
"Which reveals your lack of integrity! Which is an accurate adjective that depicts people who use ad hominems! ' "
It doesn't – this whole reply answers nothing – other than repeating guff.
See:
"And pointing out that you attack the debater instead of attacking the topic is not an ad hominem! "
No – just a false claim. For which I asked proof. And you have given none. . . other than attacking me.
Irony is – your strand is AD HOMINEM itself!
– – –
Doh! You started this rather abusive strand -NOT me!
Yet you claim the reverse!
How quaint!
"I am not using ad hominems I am using adjectives that accuratly depict your actions. "
See the excuse!
He – OF COURSE isn't using ad hominem.
But using "ADJECTIVES" – what do you think ad hominems coming in . . . prepositions?
See – I never use Ad Hominem either . . . but use adjectives to er . . . accurately depict your actions.
– – –
"You came to an innitial debate I was having with peeacefulIslam! Accepted the challenge! And then made excuses as to why you would not debate the topic. "
I have shown you dishonesty . . . which you have accepted was wrong and dishonest.
Above you claimed – I was the one challenging.
After I pointed this to be wrong – you have changed your story too!
– – –
"And then made excuses as to why you would not debate the topic. "
I simply said – this is done debate . . . .with someone . . . lets start over . . . you at the END of comment issued the challenge.
Then isn't it an EXCUSE by you – just saying read my comments!
– – –
"And you made personal attacks instead of debating the topic! Because thats all you have! "
Where – which one . . . see how you are STILL lying over this!
– – –
"My exposing your ad hominems is not an ad hominem! Do you even know wehat it means? This is ridiculous! "
But have DONE no such "exposition"
Just because you claim it – it does NOT make it so.
And if you are SO against being ad hominemous – then WHY
make claim as the above?
Which IS ad hominem.
– – –
"I want to debate the topic! And Ad hominem is a tactic used (BY YOU) to deflect from the topic! "
See more lying . . . as YOU started this strand and NOT me.
So this is really idiotic lie.
– – –
"I then expose your behavior and use accurate adjectives that depict your behavior! "
Once again the excuse!
So when I was NOT here – you were claiming all sort – abusing me . . .now I am here . . . you have changed your tack!
– – –
"Your trying to say I am using using ad hominems by saying that you are using ad hominems! "
Nope – I have NEVER once said this . . .
I merely point out:
This strand YOU started is Ad Hominem. Look:
"aminriadh is running from a challenge that he said he would take. He is deflecting by character assassination and claiming my evidence is unclear in an attempt to flee from discourse.
All he does is attack the debater. Tactics he uses!
"
There are lies in here and attacks on me.
I have NOT ran away – obviously I have proven that to be untrue!
"he is deflecting by character"
This IS ad hominem!
You made this disgusting hate against me up.
"claiming my evidence is unclear in an attempt to flee from discourse"
I never said this – where! I asked you this – to provide evidence for this claim
"All he does is attack the debater. Tactics he uses!"
I asked you to evidence this claim too.
– – –
So far I have asked you to evidence these attacks and accusations
Which you have NOT done so.
Hence they are LIES – against me personally.
– – –
"I am exposing your behavior and ad hominems! "
No you are NOT – you making up lie after lie . . . as I have SUCCESSFULLY Shown.
– – –
"And I already started the debate where you came in our conversation and accepted the challenge! You continue to reveal that you have NO integrity! "
Which I pointed out – was with someone else. At the end – you issued a challenge.
I accepted.
Hence let us start a debate.
I have already answered one thing from your comments. . .
A debate was ALREADY underway – when you wrote this comment..
– – –
"That is not an ad hominem! Because I am factually depicting your actions in so that you can deflect from the topic! "
What isn't?
And WHAT TOPIC!
Notice how I keep asking – and you don't answer!
I am not using ad hominems I am using adjectives that accuratly depict your actions. You came to an innitial debate I was having with peeacefulIslam! Accepted the challenge! And then made excuses as to why you would not debate the topic.
And you made personal attacks instead of debating the topic! Because thats all you have!
My exposing your ad hominems is not an ad hominem! Do you even know wehat it means? This is ridiculous!
Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.
Thats all you have been doing when i have been trying to get you to enter a dialog!
When I expose your ad hominems in an attempt to flee from discourse that is NOt an ad hominem!
I want to debate the topic! And Ad hominem is a tactic used (BY YOU) to deflect from the topic!
I then expose your behavior and use accurate adjectives that depict your behavior!
You make no sense!
Your trying to say I am using using ad hominems by saying that you are using ad hominems!
An ad Hominem is when someone attacks the debater instead of the topic!
WHICH YOU CONTINUE TO DO WITH EVERYONE!
I am exposing your behavior and ad hominems!
This is pathetic!
And I already started the debate where you came in our conversation and accepted the challenge! You continue to reveal that you have NO integrity!
That is not an ad hominem! Because I am factually depicting your actions in so that you can deflect from the topic!
ABSURD!
Which is WHY you are a hate monger – and Nanak wasn't. What I have been saying all along. Another bit of evidence to add!
"Please go with those whom the entire world looks UP to."
There is NO human that the entire world looks up to.
Jesus isn't one – neither is Guru Nanak.
Hell – even YOU don't look up to Nanak. After all – he was SO mistaken about Islam. Unlike you he was not a hate monger.
– – –
Your reason for commenting on Sina's site IS hate.
Sure –
Just as this is practice of Hinduism
http://vidpk.com/20354/Hindu-students-beating-mus…
A religion – which you believe to be "peaceful"
– – –
You tend to beat your own argument often . . . as I repeatedly suggest.
A little learning will do you good!
Try finding out what "Logic" really is. Then one day you might be able to construct a watertight argument!
"Every single article here at alisina.org and at faithfreedom.org relating to Muhammad/Quran/Islam proves that Islam is FALSE! These Articles were here before you even issued your challenge. "
Yet they are full of lies.
Repeatedly pointed out and proved by me.
Your inability to answer . . . any challenges posed . . . .well it shows you for what you are – a hate monger.
– – –
As repeatedly proved. Even Sina cannot come out and defend his BS.
"I agree.. wholeheartedly! "
Actually you don't – because of Islam. You consider them lesser.
This is evident from your many comments.
– – –
Of course you have excuses to declare what is and isn't a religion. Which are that – excuses.
You hold such generalities by name only.
When it comes down to it . . . . reading the small print. . . . then you tend to be something completely different.
"But honestly, look at the pictures of these rabid Muslims, I am not talking about the average Muslims who have no clue about Islam and calls themselves Muslim. I am talking about the real hard core fanatic Muslims."
This repeatedly shows Sina's mentality – anyone who does NOT conform to his projection of a Muslims is not a Muslim.
His "no clue about Islam" doesn't just include people that tend to be more secular than religious but even those religious people that do NOT conform to his stereotype.
– – –
" I am talking about the real hard core fanatic Muslims. They are all ugly. There is something very evil in their eyes and in their faces. "
Hate speech . . . . if this was coming from Fanatic Muslims it will be labelled as such.
– – –
"There is nothing scientific for me to back my statement. But I can see the evil look in the faces of these people. It is intuitive. "
The statement says it all.
– – –
" I saw this evilness in Obama very early on. Remember that he was held as the Messiah by the majority of the people in the world. Just remember this that I told you he is very evil and it will be known eventually. "
Well! This is the reason why even Pipes has rejected him!
"And exposing you using ad hominems is NOT an ad hominem! "
So calling someone coward, liar – that is exposing Ad Homs – really?
So for you – it is OK – you will come up with excuses.
Anyone else. . . . it isn't.
Yet it was YOU who started this. And not me.
– – –
"Again, I am not using it to deflect from a topic! You are running from the debate in which you accepted. "
Read what I said . . . I said I accept – you have even quoted me . . . yet you still are dishonest.
Simply start an argument – and If er "run" then you have got a point.
But we were NEVER in an any argument.
So what did I run from. . . . ?
– – –
This my NOT occur to you . . . . But i have life – and there will be period when I am NOT here – and there will be periods I am here.
Doh!
Surely one does NOT have to voice such simplicities. . . hence you ridiculous claim – I have ran away IS by your own logic – you Ad homing!
Click on my name to look at my intensedebate profile. I am not here 24/7 nor intend to be!
– – –
"And pointing out that you attack the debater instead of attacking the topic is not an ad hominem! "
No – just a false claim. For which I asked proof. And you have given none. . . other than attacking me.
Irony is – your strand is AD HOMINEM itself!
– – –
"I am willing to debate the topics! You use ad hominems to deflect from topics! "
Sure – then which topic. . . . rather than continuing this . . . why not start one.
– – –
Also it would be helpful to use – Intensedebate system.
Making it easier to find your comments.
"Well then we all must conclude that you concur with everything I stated! Thats good! At least you admit that Islam is a fascist, bigoted, intolerant, violent, misogynistic ideology! "
doh!
"State your argument to me clearly – anything I don't agree with I will refute it. "
This is asking for your argument – not everything I say. So what argument?
– – –
"No i dont hate Muslims! I hate evil, fascist bigoted, intolerant, violent misogynistic ideologies! Muslims are just victims. I pity them!
It is just and moral to hate hate! Hence I hate Islam! I pity Muslims! "
Sure. . . . pity away.
– – –
"Hate monger? Like Mohamed and your Pimp Allah? "
No dear – Unlike Allah and Muhammad.
"But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." [Al-Qur’an 2:192]
" Still running from the topic I see! "
Hang on . . . what topic? See this IS form of Ad hom – suddenly why has this charge gone from you?
You are good at lobbing it . . . . but still ad-hom others!
– – –
"Why cant you debate the topic! All you do is deflect and lie! Constantly! You dismiss my argument because YOU know that you cannot defend Islam! So you play these games with your constant personal attacks and ad hominems! "
But which arguments . . . where?
What are you talking about?
Hang on – what about you own self . . . you lob these accusations – when asked for explanation . . . you tend to give none.
Other than repeat the same thing.
– – –
"You have absolutely NO integrity at all!
Debate the topic like you said you would! COWARD! "
See – Ad hom!
– – –
"This was your very first comment to me! Now who is the liar , liar? Speak to the topic. If you do not then you admit that you agree with every single thing i said! Because that is what you said! "
You are the liar . . . This simply shows I accepted your challenge.
Which proves your earlier claim – that I challenged you to be false.
– – – –
You start a debate – I'll answer.
What is it that you want.
Still running from the topic I see!
Why cant you debate the topic! All you do is deflect and lie! Constantly! You dismiss my argument because YOU know that you cannot defend Islam! So you play these games with your constant personal attacks and ad hominems!
You have absolutely NO integrity at all!
Debate the topic like you said you would! COWARD!
——————————————————————————
This was your very first comment to me! Now who is the liar , liar? Speak to the topic. If you do not then you admit that you agree with every single thing i said! Because that is what you said!
aminriadh95p · 1 day ago
"
Well i know the truth! Islam is an evil, fascist, bigoted, intolerant, violent, misogynistic death cult bent on the subjugation or death of all non Muslims!
And I challenge any Muslim to debate me! "
Not another one!
Look what happened to all others that made this claim . . . even Sina hides!
– – –
I accept – but try reading up what happened to people like J Stilwater, Demsci, Julia, Sina, knowTheEnemy . . . .
Then if you think you are up to it . . . . come along.
Quote from you!
"State your argument to me clearly – anything I don't agree with I will refute it. "
Well then we all must conclude that you concur with everything I stated! Thats good! At least you admit that Islam is a fascist, bigoted, intolerant, violent, misogynistic ideology!
No I am not j stillwater.
Hate monger? Like Mohamed and your Pimp Allah?
Muslim (1:33) – the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah
Bukhari (8:387) – Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."
Muslim (1:30) – "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."
No i dont hate Muslims! I hate evil, fascist bigoted, intolerant, violent misogynistic ideologies! Muslims are just victims. I pity them!
It is just and moral to hate hate! Hence I hate Islam! I pity Muslims!
At least he is doing something about it . . . . what is your excuse?
Still not "professional" enough?
Especially when your BS is challenged.
Hence why your BS is so regularly challenged. And it repeatedly becomes obvious . . . how poor you are. . . . would you care to disagree?
Or would you like me to dig up some evidence?
Wrong. I made a general statement! it was not directed at you nor was it meant to deflect from any topic! As you have done! You dont ever speak on a topic.
And exposing you using ad hominems is NOT an ad hominem!
Again, I am not using it to deflect from a topic! You are running from the debate in which you accepted.
And pointing out that you attack the debater instead of attacking the topic is not an ad hominem!
See you have No integrity! And that is an adjective that accurately depicts your actions and character after examination and continuation! It is an observation of your actions!
I am willing to debate the topics! You use ad hominems to deflect from topics!
'
Nice try!
"You read what i posted now dont deflect. I will be waiting! "
Which was an argument – you were having with someone else. What has it got to do with me?
And it was at the END you were issuing challenges.
– – –
"And you said it was a mess and you wouldn't comment on it. "
The lie continues . . . This was on a specific comment.
– – –
"Any more lies Mohamedumb? Why is it that I cannot find one single Muslim who has integrity! Not one! Oh yeah, they are following Mohameds example! "
You accuse others of "ad homs" but yourself . . .
– – –
"And you could understand that comment! I am talking about the very first time you approached me and accepted the challenge! "
Then you accept that . . . this was mistake/lie:
"He challenged me and then made excuses two or three times."
– – –
"And you could understand that comment! I am talking about the very first time you approached me and accepted the challenge! And then you use ad hominems and deflect!"
This is still a lie. Where did I say . . . on that comment your comment was mess?
Paste link prove me a liar.
– – –
"Because YOU challenged me when I was speaking to peacefulIslam on a specific topic! "
Where?
– – –
"So YOU are the LIAR! "
Nope – this is another false claim.
Evidence will let you down:
" I accept – but try reading up what happened to people like J Stilwater, Demsci, Julia, Sina, knowTheEnemy . . . . "
Sure my dear – however:
"He is deflecting by character"
"I have encountered it many times. I have yet to encounter a Muslim capable of objective reasoning, critical thinking and intellectual integrity though."
" Oh no! You are the liar! "
"All he does is attack the debater. Tactics he uses! "
– – –
These are all:
"ad hominems"
– – –
Like I said . . . such people will accuse of fallacies by rote.
Without any understanding.
Above is the perfect example 🙂
Hence:
" provide the evidence that these qualities are lacking in me! "
See above – lying, dishonesty. . . . claiming I have ran away . . . .because I wasn't here to answer . . .
Proof enough.
provide the evidence that these qualities are lacking in me!
More ad hominems!
Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.
Poisoning the well – a type of ad hominem where adverse information about a target is presented with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says[45]
Abusive fallacy – a subtype of "ad hominem" when it turns into name-calling rather than arguing about the originally proposed argument.
Oh no! You are the liar!
Quote from you! All you do is use ad hominem attacks and never discuss topics!
"State your argument to me clearly – anything I don't agree with I will refute it. "
"
So I take it you agree with me?
Quote " I accept – but try reading up what happened to people like J Stilwater, Demsci, Julia, Sina, knowTheEnemy . . . . "
In which I replied "
Now go back and refute my comments and lets do this.
You read what i posted now dont deflect. I will be waiting!
And you said it was a mess and you wouldnt comment on it.
Any more lies Mohamedumb? Why is it that I cannot find one single Muslim who has integrity! Not one! Oh yeah, they are following Mohameds example!
And you could understand that comment! I am talking about the very first time you approached me and accepted the challenge! And then you use ad hominems and deflect! Now either you agree with my comments that come from YOUR Pimp Allah and pervert serial killer false Prophet and his greatest scholars and continue to be silent! Or answer them!
Because YOU challenged me when I was speaking to peacefulIslam on a specific topic!
So YOU are the LIAR!
"aminriadh is running from a challenge that he said he would take."
Here he claims I am running from a challenge. . . implication is his challenge. Then:
" He challenged me and then made excuses two or three times."
I have not been here for few day . . . And you get the above.
Yet there was NOT really a discussion that was open between us. TO which I did not reply.
– – –
"He is deflecting by character assassination and claiming my evidence is unclear in an attempt to flee from discourse. "
Where? We have NOT debated anything. YET
– – –
"All he does is attack the debater. Tactics he uses! "
Where? Would you are to present evidence? This is simply an accusation.
– – –
The gent lists a list of fallacies – unfortunately this is very common. People tend to lob such accusations at you – the simple thing to expose this is . . . by asking them to explain how your argument conforms to the accused fallacy.
You will often find "Non-Muslims"* using this tactic. Yet they rarely understand the topic themselves. I have learned basics of Logic – the science in 2 separate languages. Arabic and English.
* I am aware of fallacies use of this label creates – and I do not intend to imply all non Muslims. Just the venomous hate mongers here. And no – not all non-Muslims are hate-mongers. But only the real hateful ones stay here. You can tell that from their comments. These are the type that Sina attracts.
– – –
"My argument is here for all to see. he says it is a mess so he thinks he can get away from debating the topic. He has NO integrity! http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/01/jews-and-musli…. "
Anyone clicking this will find it going nowhere!
Need I say more!
– – –
If this person was smart – he would have waited . . . . but he jumped the gun.
"Watch how he continues to run and use ad hominem! "
Where? I am right here. . . . and what "ad hominem!" where?
I suspect this person is J stilwater!
"I have encountered it many times. I have yet to encounter a Muslim capable of objective reasoning, critical thinking and intellectual integrity though."
And how do you propose to see:
" capable of objective reasoning, critical thinking and intellectual integrity"
The talent is NOT within you. . .
Just see below – you are even dishonest in small things.
– – –
This is like a blind claiming to judge a painting. Maybe you have NOT come across this:
" I have yet to encounter a Muslim capable of objective reasoning, critical thinking and intellectual integrity though."
Because these qualities are lacking within you.
I am right here.
Let us look at your comment:
"He challenged me and then made excuses two or three times."
No – I accepted your challenge. I did not challenge you.
What excuses? Do point them out.
See – you are lying.
– – –
" He claimed my comments were a mess after he challenged me and I accepted. "
You repeat the lie – You issued an "all Muslim challenge" which I accepted.
Another lie. I said a particular comment of yours was/is a mess. Which I stand by – that particular comment is a mess.
– – –
Actually I believe it is better to be less trusting. I know I have said this every time and did not follow through. Someone comes along, someone you have helped and he owes you so much and you think if anyone betrays you this person won't because of what you did for him. Then he stabs you in the back. I can tell you stories that you can't believe. You cannot trust even your own brother.
Yes beauty comes from within and that is why I can't see the beauty in Muslim women or men. But honestly, look at the pictures of these rabid Muslims, I am not talking about the average Muslims who have no clue about Islam and calls themselves Muslim. I am talking about the real hard core fanatic Muslims. They are all ugly. There is something very evil in their eyes and in their faces. There are many beautiful people among Arabs, Persians, Turks, Pakistanis. Actually I think Persian women are the prettiest women. But those who are hard core Muslim are all ugly. There is nothing scientific for me to back my statement. But I can see the evil look in the faces of these people. It is intuitive.
It is strange but I can somehow see the evil in the faces of people. Most of the time I try to reason to myself that I should not be prejudiced and often I regret it. I saw this evilness in Obama very early on. Remember that he was held as the Messiah by the majority of the people in the world. Just remember this that I told you he is very evil and it will be known eventually.
Sharia is fascist, bigoted, and inequitable! The jizya is an extortion and meant for subjugation! Sharia is immoral!
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Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr and Disgrace
Allah said,
﴿حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ﴾
(until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam,
﴿عَن يَدٍ﴾
(with willing submission), in defeat and subservience,
﴿وَهُمْ صَـغِرُونَ﴾
(and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said,
«لَا تَبْدَءُوا الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى بِالسَّلَامِ، وَإِذَا لَقِيتُمْ أَحَدَهُمْ فِي طَرِيقٍ فَاضْطَرُّوهُ إِلَى أَضْيَقِه»
(Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace.
I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."
Sahih Bukhari 9:83:50, See also: Sahih Bukhari 1:3:111, and Sahih Bukhari 4:52:283
Oh no. He's running. He challenged me and then made excuses two or three times. He claimed my comments were a mess after he challenged me and I accepted. Follow the link I posted and read my comments. Dont deflect or use lies and logical fallacies. Stick to the topic!
It is the conversation with the deceived peacefulIslam! Whom I educated. Go read and feel free to respond. I am not going to copy and paste everything all over again! Good luck!
Actually we need obnoxious Muslims so we can make our point and win scores. Remember there are at least times more people who read and don't write comments than those who do. A few Muslims here are not going to be affected by anything but there are others who will be. We respond to these Muslims but we actually write for those who don't participate.
Sina's articles seem to working on you dimwits, which is his game plan from the offset.
You fcukers are so stupid, you put a bucket under the pipe when there's a gas leak!
Go figure numb-nuts.
@search4truth. I doubt aminriadh is hiding or running from you. He will answer in his own time.
However, I'm bored and am here. Why not give me your challenge?
continued…..
Finally, by the same token as you champion Islamophobe Noni Darwish, Ali Sina. A leading barrister has called for the UK to become more sharia-literate, while arguing that Islamic law can be compatible with the toughest human rights legislation.
Sadakat Kadri is a lawyer, author, travel writer and journalist. One of his foremost roles as a barrister was to assist in the prosecution of former Malawian president Hastings Banda. As a member of the New York Bar he has worked as a volunteer with the American Civil Liberties Union. He has also specialised in freedom of information issues
But Kadri, a barrister and contemporary of Barack Obama at Harvard Law School, stresses the ability of sharia to adapt and change. He sets out the history of sharia in a book, Heaven and Earth, published in January 2012. He describes the slow development of sharia law, which many assume to be derived directly from the Quran, in the centuries after the death of Mohammed.
Kadri points out that many of the punishments associated in people's minds with sharia law have only been applied very recently. "I try to show how it's only really in the last 40 years, since Colonel Gaddafi in Libya, but more especially since the Iranian revolution in 1979 that the idea of enforcing Islamic rules through national laws has come to the fore. Before 1973, it was only Saudi Arabia which actually did that."
Top five sharia myths
That amputation is a typical punishment for theft in Muslim countries
Of the world's 50 or so Muslim-majority states, only about half a dozen allow for amputations and at least one of those countries – Pakistan – has never carried out the penalty in practice
That veiling is mandatory under sharia law
Women are simply advised by the Quran to wear modest clothing and – like men – to lower their eyes and maintain their chastity
That suicide bombing is permissible under sharia law
Most interpreters of the Quran understand it to forbid suicide. The first suicide bombing by Muslims was carried out in 1983 during the Lebanese civil war
Stoning is mentioned in the Qur'an
Stoning is not mentioned as a punishment in the Qur'an. It was institutionalized on the basis of hadiths (reports about Mohammed) which were themselves not written down until more than a century after his death
Capital punishment for apostasy is mentioned by the Quran
The Quran repeatedly warns believers who abandon their faith that they will have to account to God in the afterlife, but it does not provide for their punishment on earth. Again, it was hadiths that later served to justify the death penalty.
So you see Ali Sina, just like you can pull out anti Sharia proponents, we can also pull out pro Sharia proponents.
You just stick to your fleecing con under the pretense of free minds.
Nonie Darwish again I see.
Another charlatan akin to Wafa Sultan who is milking the Islamophobic cash cow for all it’s worth.
You mean the Nonie Darwish who interweaves stories of her Egyptian girlhood with potted accounts of female genital mutilation, arranged marriages, polygamy, veiling, domestic abuse, honor killings, sharia law, jihad, censorship, hate-oriented education, the rejection of modernity, the cult of martyrdom, Islamic imperialism, and the pathological, groundless hatred of Israel.
In her interviews and in her books, she insists that she is not anti-Arab or anti-Islamic, and even suggests from time to time that she is still a Muslim. Then she pivots nimbly and attacks “the Arab mind,” “the seething Arab street,” and “the Muslim world,” with its “culture of jihad,” “culture of death,” and “culture of envy.” There are “no real distinctions between moderate or radical Muslims,” and no significant differences within or among Arab or Muslim cultures.
At one of her speeches at SIOA she stated the following:
“Islam is a poison to a society. It’s divisive. It’s hateful. Look what Islam is doing on our college campuses. It’s full of anti-Semitism. It’s going to turn us against one another. It’s going to produce chaos in society. Because Islam should be feared, and should be fought, and should be conquered, and defeated, and annihilated, and it’s going to happen. Ladies and gentlemen, Islam is going to be brought down. . .Because Islam is based on lies and it’s not based on the truth. I have no doubt whatsoever that Islam is going to be destroyed.”
Does this ring a bell with you Ali Sina? You and Noni Darwish sing the same tune, literally word for word! After all, you guys are members of the same club.
Unfortunately, the supposed threat of Sharia or Islamic law in the U.S. tends to be used as a bogeyman, where less than 3% of the population will somehow force women to wear burqas and the star and the crescent will replace the stars and stripes.
But when one looks at the cases that have arisen in the U.S. involving judges using Islamic law to arbitrate a dispute, this simply isn’t the case. For example, last March, Hillsborough Circuit Judge Richard Neilsen in Tampa, Florida, used Sharia law to arbitrate a contractual dispute between two Muslim parties. The parties did not seek to impose religious law on others. Other than the fact that Neilsen presides over a government court, funded through taxation, no other parties were affected.
Secondly, U.S. courts leave a lot to be desired for those seeking justice. Many have dubbed the U.S. justice system as a "prison-industrial complex" where millions are in prison for victimless crimes. There is rampant abuse and corruption of police and government courts, and only after you can afford the costs, in both monetary terms and in time lost from employment, family, etc. – can you go to trial?
The borderline paranoia over anything Islamic in the U.S., which Ali Sina and his cohorts always argue, ignores what Sharia law represents. In practice, it is very similar to English common law: Privately enforced customary law that evolves and adapts quickly. Americans engage in the private arbitration of disputes all the time, and take for granted how easy and cheap this process can be. Anyone who has ever used companies like Amazon or eBay has implicitly participated in the efficiency and complexity of private law. By allowing and encouraging users to "rate" buyers and sellers, Amazon and eBay create a governing system of horizontally-enforced, decentralized order and conflict resolution without government police or government courts. The tradition of Islamic law, the separation of law from state, follows similar principles.
Sharia advocates giving money to the poor, not gambling, not eating pork or shellfish, staying sober, not charging interest on loans, and dressing modestly.
In the 11th century, a man allegedly sent by the Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah attempted to smash the Black Stone, but was killed on the spot, having caused only slight damage.[13] In 1674, according to Johann Ludwig Burckhardt, someone smeared the Black Stone with excrement so that "every one who kissed it retired with a sullied beard". The Shi'ite Persians were suspected of being responsible and were the target of curses from other Muslims for centuries afterwards, though explorer Sir Richard Francis Burton doubted that they were the culprits; he attributed the act to "some Jew or Greek, who risked his life to gratify a furious bigotry."
The Stone has suffered desecrations and significant damage over the centuries. It is said to have been struck and smashed to pieces by a stone fired from a catapult during the Umayyad siege of Mecca in 756. The fragments were rejoined by 'Abd Allah ibn Zubayr using a silver ligament.[12] In January 930 it was stolen by the Qarmatians, who carried the Black Stone away to their base in Hajar (modern Bahrain). According to Ottoman historian Qutb al-Din, writing in 1857, Qarmatian leader Abu Tahir al-Qarmati set the Black Stone up in his own mosque, the Masjid al-Dirar, with the intention of redirecting the Hajj away from Mecca. However, this failed, and pilgrims continued to venerate the spot where the Black Stone had been.[13]
According to historian Al-Juwayni, the Stone was returned twenty-three years later, in 952. The Qarmatians held the Black Stone for ransom, and forced the Abbasids to pay a huge sum for its return. It was wrapped in a sack and thrown into the Friday Mosque of Kufa, accompanied by a note saying "By command we took it, and by command we have brought it back." Its abduction and removal caused further damage, breaking the stone into seven pieces.[9][14][15] Its abductor, Abu Tahir, is said to have met a terrible fate; according to Qutb al-Din, "the filthy Abu Tahir was afflicted with a gangrenous sore, his flesh was eaten away by worms, and he died a most terrible death."
nearly everything Muslims say is either a lie, logical fallacy, or misrepresentation!
The pagan Kaaba has been damaged and rebuilt several times.
About 600 CE, the Quraysh tribe, which was now in the ascendant, decided to gather sufficient funds to rebuild the Kaaba. Once again, the structure had been weakened by periodic floods and, on one occasion, partially destroyed by fire when a woman spreading incense in the Kaaba had inadvertently set the place alight. The new structure was built out of wood and stone, in alternate layers.
The pagan kaaba that Muslims circumvent is not the same pagan kaaba that the pagans danced around naked.
the pagan kaaba is just like any other building. And the pagan vagina shaped black stone that you kiss and will one day speak (LOL) has been stolen and used as a urinal.
Construction after the Prophet's Time – Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr
The Syrian army destroyed the kaaba in Muharram 64 (Hijri date) and before the next Hajj Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr, may Allah be pleased with him, reconstructed the kaaba from the ground up.
Ibn az-Zubayr wanted to make the kaaba how the Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) wanted it, on the foundation of the Prophet Ibrahim. Ibn az-Zubayr said, "I heard Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) say, The Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) said: "If your people had not quite recently abandoned the Ignorance (Unbelief), and if I had sufficient provisions to rebuild it [the kaaba], I would have added five cubits to it from the Hijr. Also, I would make two doors; one for people to enter therein and the other to exit." (Bukhari).
Ibn az-Zubayr said, "Today, I can afford to do it and I do not fear the people. Ibn az-Zubayr built the kaaba on Prophet Ibrahim's foundation. He put the roof on three pillars with the wood of Aoud (a perfumed wood with aroma which is traditionally burned to get a good smell out of it in Arabia).
In his construction he put two doors, one facing the east the other facing the west, as the Prophet (sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) wanted but did not do in his lifetime. He rebuilt the kaaba on the Prophet Ibrahim's foundation, which meant that the Hateem area was included. The Hateem is the area adjacent to the kaaba enclosed by a low semi-circular wall.
I offer you 73 virgins. Come and be my follower. I will give you Xboxes and free beer in Heaven.
I don't think Mr. Sina's articles are written for these mindless idiots to read. His articles are for the rest of us. Those who have a normal brain.
Rainbow congratulations! You have won 71 virgins. The last one will be awarded when you explode in the name of Allah. Remember Quran 78.33 says the virgins will have big breasts. I'm serious. This is what Quran says. It says the women will be voluptuous. "Al-Kawaib". Would you be able to talk about this verse to your mother, the only woman you cherished, if she was still alive?
I doubt you would talk about things like that to your mother. Ask your prophet Muhammad why he put that verse in the Quran because its causing you embarrassment in public now.
I doubt any of the above muslims have read any of the articles. Those fcuking idiots are talking nonsense mindlessly. they are Challenging, assuming defeated all ( including Ali Sina), day dreaming, and what not. How would these nuts understand, it is beyond me. They are badly illusioned, delusioned, spelled, tantalized, brainwashed, indoctrineated and what not. These idiot still in 21st century dreaming that they are going to screw 72 virgins in paradise. They are such a fool and lustful, greedy like MD that they are caught in the lure of virgins. Ali Sina, Please stop writing mind enhancing articles but produce something like 72. Then these idiots are going to accept and understand the truth. Else all useless.
@Vijay
Agniveer is a hate monger following a cult Arya Samaj. We do need to prove anything before him. Even in India Arya Samaji are not in big numbers. Cult like Arya Samaj comes and goes like rain of winter. Islam has stood from thousand of years and no one could shake Islam.
One more quote of Kabirdas which proves he was non-believer in Islamic teachings. As per Islam God is above the heavens. But Kabirdas assumed God is within his creation and in every atom of universe. But Quran teaches us creator is different from creation
Kabirdas Quote
"Jaise Til Mein Tel Hai, Jyon Chakmak Mein Aag
Tera Sayeen Tujh Mein Hai, Tu Jaag Sake To Jaag"
Translation
Like the Oil is inside the Seed, Just as the Fire is Inside the Flint Stone
Your God is withiin/inside You, If you have the Power to Wake Up/to know him, then Wake Up/ to know him
As per Islam God is not in his creation. So Kabirdas was wrong.
@Sakat
Thank You.
Excellent
"Spain: Imran Firasat Arrested, Charged and Released on Condition he Does not Publish the 'Innocent Prophet' Film" http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2…
I have encountered it many times. I have yet to encounter a Muslim capable of objective reasoning, critical thinking and intellectual integrity though. But at least they are consistant in following the example of their pervert monster false Prophet!
What other conclusion can I make. He claimed that I lied and called him names. But I have only spoken to two Muslim on here. Amin and PeacefulIslam. So he has to be one of the two! And he just admitted that he lied. Ad hominem attacks , lies and logical fallacies are all Muslims have! Because they are incapable of defending their child molesting, rapist, fascist, bigoted, serial killer nfalse Prophet and their demon Pimp Allah!
Yes you should sponsor it, because you are suffering from it!
@Ignorant lad
"Under sharia can we claim and propagate the idea that Vedas are the only revelation of god to mankind "
No, in Sharia you are not allowed to preach any false belief. Islam is only true religion and if you preach any other religion except Islam you will be punished under the law of Sharia.
And who told you Veda are only true revelation? Quran nowhere says it. Veda are nothing but a propaganda on the name of true religion was started in 18th century by the founder of Arya Samaj " Dayanand" to trash Quran and Islam.
No you said you know Islam better than Guru Nanak . In fact he was wrong about it. I think your own people will bash you for proving Guru Nanak ignorant stupid who don't know much better than you !
@ Ali (The Arab follower of Arabian dacoit)
I don't know Arabic and will never learn that tribal language. Under sharia can we claim and propagate the idea that Vedas are the only revelation of god to mankind ?
@Vijay
Allah is protector of Kaaba. No when can Tear down the Kaaba.
Masjid Dha Day, Mandir Dha Day
Dha Day Jo Kujh Disda
Par Kissay Da Dil Na Dhawee(n)
Rub Dilaa(n) Wich Wasda
Tear down the Mosque, tear down the temple
Tear down every thing in sight
But don't (tear down) break anyone's heart
Because God lives there(Baba Bulle Shah)
Man kar makā kiblā kar ḏehī.
Let your mind be Mecca, and your body the Qibla of worship.
Bolanhār param gur ehī.
Let the Supreme Guru be the One who speaks
Kaho re mulāʼn bāʼng nivāj.
O Mullah, utter the call to prayer.
Ėk masīṯ ḏasai ḏarvāj.
The one mosque has ten doors.
Misimil ṯāmas bẖaram kaḏūrī.
So slaughter your evil nature, doubt and cruelty;
Bẖākẖ le pancẖai ho▫e sabūrī.
consume the five demons and you shall be blessed with contentment.
Hinḏū ṯurak kā sāhib ek.
Hindus and Muslims have the same One Lord and Master.
Kah karai mulāʼn kah karai sekẖ.
What can the Mullah do, and what can the Shaykh do?
Kahi Kabīr ha▫o bẖa▫i▫ā ḏivānā.
Says Kabeer, I have gone insane.
Mus mus manū▫ā sahj samānā.
Slaughtering, slaughtering my mind, I have merged into the Celestial Lord.
———————————–
Alhu ek masīṯ basaṯ hai avar mulakẖ kis kerā. If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong?
॥ Hinḏū mūraṯ nām nivāsī ḏuh mėh ṯaṯ na herā. ||1|| According to the Hindus, the Lord's Name abides in the idol, but there is no truth in either of these claims. ||1||
Alah rām jīva▫o ṯere nā▫ī. O Allah, O Raam, I live by Your Name.
Ŧū kar mihrāmaṯ sā▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o. Please show mercy to me, O Master. ||1||Pause||
Ḏakẖan ḏes harī kā bāsā pacẖẖim alah mukāmā. The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west.
Ḏil mėh kẖoj ḏilai ḏil kẖojahu ehī ṯẖa▫ur mukāmā. ||2|| So search in your heart – look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives. ||2||
Barahman gi▫ās karahi cẖa▫ubīsā kājī mah ramjānā. The Brahmins observe twenty-four fasts during the year, and the Muslims fast during the month of Ramadaan.
Gi▫ārėh mās pās kai rākẖe ekai māhi niḏẖānā. ||3|| The Muslims set aside eleven months, and claim that the treasure is only in the one month. ||3||
Kahā udīse majan kī▫ā ki▫ā masīṯ sir nāʼn▫eʼn. What is the use of bathing at Orissa? Why do the Muslims bow their heads in the mosque?
Ḏil mėh kapat nivāj gujārai ki▫ā haj kābai jāʼn▫eʼn. ||4|| If someone has deception in his heart, what good is it for him to utter prayers? And what good is it for him to go on pilgrimage to Mecca? ||4||
Ėṯe a▫uraṯ marḏā sāje e sabẖ rūp ṯumĥāre. You fashioned all these men and women, Lord. All these are Your Forms.
Kabīr pūngrā rām alah kā sabẖ gur pīr hamāre. ||5|| Kabeer is the child of God, Allah, Raam. All the Gurus and prophets are mine. ||5||
Kahaṯ Kabīr sunhu nar narvai parahu ek kī sarnā. Says Kabeer, listen, O men and women: seek the Sanctuary of the One.
Keval nām japahu re parānī ṯab hī nihcẖai ṯarnā. ||6||2|| Chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, O mortals, and you shall surely be carried across. ||6||2||
Hindu worship Idols. Their God is not true God. "There is no God except Allah and prophet Mohammed is his messenger." If any person believe differently he /she is not Muslim.
"I proved you Kabir was not Muslim because he always made mockery of Islam."
——————-
Anyone who sincerely believes things like "the Gods of different people is actually one and the same God", and "All human beings are equal; one is not superior than the other because of religion", CANNOT be a Muslim!
I agree.. wholeheartedly!
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/12/spain-arrests-m…
I proved you Kabir was not Muslim because he always made mockery of Islam. He will be in eternal hell.
gathering pebbles and stones
they erected their mosques
muezzins climb the minarets
and shout with ear bursting calls
is God hard of hearing?
——————
lol… yes, that is what Kabir said!
And he was right!
You don't even know the definition of 'stupid'. YOU are the one who is stupid, and your comment is proof of that!
Kabir was born to Muslim parents, but later became disciple of Ramanand (a Hindu) and later started teaching that the Gods of different people is actually one and the same God. Everyday Muslims of North India back then were liberal enough not to kill him.
That is the reason why Guru Nanak ended up thinking that a 'good' Muslim ends up like Kabir.
SO you need to change Sikh holy book to make it holy coz it has something unawared facts about Islam. According to you Guru Nanak was stupid coz he was under wrong impression of how should be good muslim. ha ha ha
Now shut up !
Here you go! Here is a true Muslim, a real slave of Muhammad!
Guru Nanak was in the impression that Kabir was the one who should be called a 'good' Muslim. Kabir had seen equality among all human beings, he declared that everyone's God was one and the same God, so Guru Nanak thought THAT is what a good Muslim ends up believing.
Also regarding Kabir-
Kabir had seen equality among all human beings, he declared that everyone's God was one and the same God, so Guru Nanak thought THAT is what a good Muslim ends up believing. No wonder he asked Muslims to follow their faith deeply.
You are confusing 'spiritual' with 'magical'. When you think 'spiritual', you most likely think that the person comes to know the truth about everything, that too in detail! You think that the spiritual person knows everything that the scientists (and other knowledge seekers) are yet to find.
Spiritual means that given what the person knows, he has found peace in regards to his identity, his relationship with the higher power, his relationship with the world, and in regards to whatever is happening to him in the world. It does not mean becoming a master scientist, or becoming a top scholar of some religion. You may be a top priest of some religion and still not be at peace with the above mentioned things.
@
________Nanak had no idea what is real Islam______
Agree that is why he did not accept Islam (only true religion from Allah).
____He also thought that Kabir had understood Islam well___
Kabir was a Hindu in disguise of Muslim. He never read Shahada and made mockery of Islam.
"Kankar pathar jod ke, masjid laye bannaay
Taa chadhee mulla baang de, kya behra bhaya khuday"
translation:
gathering pebbles and stones
they erected their mosques
muezzins climb the minarets
and shout with ear bursting calls
is God hard of hearing?
_______totally unaware of the facts about Islam___
Yes he was unaware Islam is only true religion from Allah
I said Guru Nanak had no idea what is real Islam! And I did not say "he supported Islam"; I said he did not oppose Islam! He had not studied Islam. He was in the impression that Sufi Islam (the kind practiced by Sheikh Farid) was real Islam. He also thought that Kabir had understood Islam well.
Back then, everyday Muslims were not as fanatic as they are in Pakistan today. Majority of Muslims in Punjab and Sind practiced Sufism no matter what denomination they counted themselves in. Guru Nanak was in the impression that a 'good' Muslim would end up like Sheikh Farid or Kabir, so he exhorted all Muslims to practice their faith deeply.
Guru Nanak thought that the bullies among the Muslims were being 'bad' Muslims, totally unaware of the facts about Islam that we know today. All this is apparent from his writings in the Sikh holy book.
Nanak was a Kufr because he did not accept Islam during his whole life time. According to Quran only believing in Allah and prophet is the way to escape from eternal hellfire.
You said Guru Nanak had no idea what is Islam ! So ( according to you ) he supported Islam during his lifetime. This disqualify him as Guru and prove he is stupid who don't have spiritual genius to manifest what is divine and what is evil.
Now shut up !
Did you ge what I said egghead?
"I (Rainbow) swear by the grave of my mother, who is the only woman I cherished,
that I am a man………but I played the role of the pretty woman who is walking
down the street, just to fool Sina, because he always brags that no one can fool him"
———————–
Didn't we tell you that you were a LIAR! Thank you for the confirmation!
"When you criticize some one for leadership You must have some one proved better than him. Its not about sitting on chair and blabbering. Its about setting a real example. Human is a natural follower if he start differing self from animals. human follows elders from family to keep family in order, human follows a leader from society to keep society in order, human always need a teacher to understand what is right or wrong. Human follows prophet to keep existence of self in both spiritual and real world in order."
Well, what I can see in this argument is that indeed it may seem to many, many Muslims,even if not to most other humans, that Islam-critics are doing something negative, trying to take something very valuable away from Muslims. And it may seem to Muslims that at least they have something they consider good to follow, emulate. Whereas the Non-Muslims LACK that. And wallow in anarchy, egoism, pleasure-seeking only, perhaps.
Hence Muslims can consider apostasy as personally LOSING a lot, and in the big view that mankind loses something positive when Islam is gone and that NOTHING really good will replace it among humans.
Muslims can view all this criticism of Islam as the attempt only to be FREE FROM something, Islam, in this case.
But there is also the concept of being FREE TO. Apostates can become free TO think, do, cherish, many thoughts, acts, things that they could not do when Muslims. But Ali Sina wants them to see and find and choose these for themselves.
Becoming apostates may also mean for Muslims that they GAIN a lot and mankind GAINS a lot, once the conservative, blockading influence of Islam is gone.
Muslims may even consider Islam in parts to be good and held onto, but augmenting these good parts with many many many more good thoughts, things and possibilities outside of, beyond ,Islam.
ahh… now we know; Watching Tom and Jerry is how you build up your IQ !
Did I?? Prove it !! Post a link to the comment where I said that. If you fail to do that… everyone will know you are a LIAR.
what ever happened to religion of peace? gave up on trying to use that line.. now to threats the true nature of the criminal mind
For those that believe in a perfect God..
"I am as God created me"
Today we continue with the one idea which brings complete salvation; the one statement which makes all forms of temptation powerless; the one thought which renders the ego silent and entirely undone. You are as God created you. The sounds of this world are still, the sights of this world disappear, and all the thoughts that this world ever held are wiped away forever by this one idea. Here is salvation accomplished. Here is sanity restored.
True light is strength, and strength is sinlessness. If you remain as God created you, you must be strong, and light must be in you. He Who ensured your sinlessness must be the guarantee of strength and light as well. You are as God created you. Darkness cannot obscure the glory of the Son of God. You stand in light, strong in the sinlessness in which you were created, and in which you will remain throughout eternity.
"I am as God created me. I am His Son eternally.”
http://courseinmiracles.com/workbook-lessons/part…
stand against Mohammad?
yes Hitler failed to become a prophet
Stalin almost made it
Pol pot just a try hard
@Search4truth,
it seems to be a universal truth.. those that spend their time calling others a "Liar", are most like a "Liar" themselves..
Rainbow also claimed to be an athiest, but He has proven on so many occassions now that He is a muslim.. Makes sense that he also posts on a number of different names.
Dear Ali,
i too have been fooled because i like to trust people.. But I have no regrets as I think it is much better to stay trusting than to become bitter and paranoid as it the case with some of the posters here..
and regarding "pretty" .. beauty truly comes from within.. going by the bitter and petty comments that spew into the comments here made by her rainbowiness, she would be bitterly ugly.
retreat very good
Decoding fast ( Exclusive help for low IQ folks ) :
Rainbow said even if you both are animals , he is cat (tomcat) and you are a mouse. This cat is inherited form Tom and Jerry fiction and have nothing to do with clairvoyant cat.
What the hell are you talking about? Which strategy? What change? Speak English so we can understand you.
(of course I am the cat).
Good that you said it. I thought you are the flee on the cat.
I think next financial year I should sponsor treatment of some illusionary psychotic diseases.
Ali Sina Sir, Why not you articulate all points in form of a article so that all people can understand Sharia. I was also not aware before reading your comment what are actually laws in sharia.
movie should be like this made by van gough http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embed…
Listen, I did what I wanted to do, I exposed some of your lies….and my constant
criticism made you try to change your strategies, even though your new plan
will not work either, because it is too late, as I said earlier……and finally I had
some fun with this trick I played on you.
I am tired, and will retreat now…..but maybe in the future I will return, and
start again the game of the cat and mouse with you. (of course I am the cat).
And suppose you have a fight with someone and he accuses you of blasphemy. You spend years in prison and if you can’t prove your innocence you are guilty and could lose your life.
Let us take a closer look at the Sharia law. Former Muslim Nonie Darwish, author of Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law, in an article titled, Sharia for Dummies highlights a few of those laws.
1. Jihad defined as “to war against non-Muslims to establish the religion” is the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state (Caliph). Muslim Caliphs who refuse jihad are in violation of Sharia and unfit to rule.
2. A Caliph can hold office through seizure of power meaning through force.
3. A Caliph is exempt from being charged with serious crimes such as murder, adultery, robbery, theft, drinking and in some cases of rape.
4. A percentage of Zakat (alms) must go towards jihad.
5. It is obligatory to obey the commands of the Caliph, even if he is unjust.
6. A caliph must be a Muslim, a non-slave, and a male.
7. The Muslim public must remove the Caliph in one case, if he rejects Islam.
8. A Muslim who leaves Islam must be killed immediately.
9. A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of: 1) an apostasy 2) an adulterer 3) a highway robber. Making vigilante street justice and honor killing acceptable.
10. A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim.
11. Sharia never abolished slavery and sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave.
12. Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, amputation of limbs, flogging and other forms of cruel and unusual punishments even for crimes of sin such as adultery.
13. Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims and must comply to Sharia if they are to remain safe. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their scriptures or openly celebrate their religious holidays or funerals. They are forbidden from building new churches or building them higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he commits adultery with a Muslim woman or if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.
14. It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allâh, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. However, the opposite is not true for Muslims.
15. A non-Muslim cannot inherit from a Muslim.
16. Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.
17. No testimony in court is acceptable from people of low-level jobs, such as street sweepers or a bathhouse attendant. Women in such low level jobs such as professional funeral mourners cannot keep custody of their children in case of divorce.
18. A non-Muslim cannot rule even over a non-Muslims minority.
19. Homosexuality is punishable by death.
20. There is no age limit for marriage of girls under Sharia. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and consummated at age 8 or 9.
21. Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband’s obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.
22. Divorce is only in the hands of the husband and is as easy as saying: “I divorce you” and becomes effective even if the husband did not intend it.
23. There is no common property between husband and wife and the husband’s property does not automatically go to the wife after his death.
24. A woman inherits half what a man inherits.
25. A man has the right to have up to 4 wives and she has no right to divorce him even if he is polygamous.
26. The dowry is given in exchange for the woman’s sexual organs.
27. A man is allowed to have sex with slave women and women captured in battle, and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled.
28. The testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man.
29. A woman loses custody if she remarries.
30. To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses.
31. A rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim.
32. A Muslim woman must cover every inch of her body which is considered “Awrah,” a sexual organ. Some schools of Sharia allow the face and some don’t.
33. A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife caught in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not since he “could be married to the woman he was caught with.”
I am sorry, but there are lots of things wrong with Sharia'. Suppose that you are_living in a country that is ruled by Sharia', suppose that you are framed with_stealing, but you are innocent, what will happen? you will live handicaped_without a hand the rest of your life._Suppose you are framed with murder, and all the odds are against you, but_you are really innocent……..how would you like to lose your head?_Death itself is not scary, but imagine the horror you go through when the take you to the executioner with the sword.
You once your self called Guru Nanak stupid. Now shut up !
I know your IQ level 105-110 ! Lets see how much grow in understanding.
1.When you criticize some one for leadership You must have some one proved better than him. Its not about sitting on chair and blabbering. Its about setting a real example. Human is a natural follower if he start differing self from animals. human follows elders from family to keep family in order, human follows a leader from society to keep society in order, human always need a teacher to understand what is right or wrong. Human follows prophet to keep existence of self in both spiritual and real world in order. You think like animal who don't see any reason
2. Who said evil is good , murder is holy, rape is divine. This is your psychotic version of looking at reality. Reality always supported by ethical code of nature which automatically reject if there is something which is not palatable to it. How long you are fabricating? Truth spread like fire why this is so slow ?
3.Its all freedom of any society , nation to put restriction to anything which may disturb their social, emotional , cultural , financial , intellectual,politically stability. Act of critics have nothing to do setting example or solution to problem they are fearing but intentionally disturbing. Haven't you banned people from forum?
Every Muslim who believe can understand Islam. Islam is simple coz it is revealed throughout life. Just like its simple to live life but difficult to understand it.One with multi-dimensional perception of life generally with higher IQ can also resolve.
Who said no one can fool me? I have been deceived and stabbed in the back several times by people I trusted. As m matter of fact honest people get fooled more often because of that little lesson we gave you about Freudian Projection.
In any case even if you were a pretty woman, as a Muslima you would have had no appeal on me.
One right thing Sina said about me: I am rude…….but I always enjoy comedies.
.
Hey people listen to the scandal of Sina:
I (Rainbow) swear by the grave of my mother, who is the only woman I cherished,
that I am a man………but I played the role of the pretty woman who is walking
down the street, just to fool Sina, because he always brags that no one can fool him.
Listen to what he wrote to me:
Ali Sina 95p · 2 hours ago
"Dear fat man:"
Don't tease me. I am not going to marry you even if you and I find ourselves alone in an uninhabited Island. I am not attracted to Muslim women even the vegan ones. So give it up.
“What is wrong with Sharia and what is wrong with Jizya?”
This sounds like a joke but unfortunately you are serious. So you see nothing wrong in chopping hands, beheading and stoning. Fine. You can practice as much Shaia in your Islamic countries as you like. However as for Jizyah how about we adopt that beautiful teaching and exact from all Muslims among us to pay an extra tax while feeling humiliated or kick them out of our non-Muslim countries or alternatively kill them?
What is good for the goose should be also good for the gander.
@knowTheEnemy.
You can't be serious, can you?
What is wrong with Sharia and what is wrong with Jizya? Do you abide by it or pay it? I thought as much.
And Jews are Prophet slayers. This is a fact. Did they not kill their Prophets?
If you are going to bat for Ali Sina, then get your facts in order. Posting a couple of interviews here and there ain't gonna cut the mustard. We require a full synopsis and breakdown of your evidence, so it can then be scrutinized and rebutted.
You can first start with meeting the challenge of the Quran. Oooops………………….I forgot, you can barley speak Hindi, let alone Arabic. Anyway, the floor is yours.
Yes, if you have to do it, at least make sure to do it right !
That's why Sina failed in his struggle to do it for 15-20 years.
He never played chess.
"They don't have any alternative personality who can stand against prophet Muhammad (pbuh)."
——————
I agree! Even the most evil of tyrants – Hitler, Stalin, Polpot cannot stand against Muhammad….
But wait…. why would you want to idolize these kind of thugs? Please go with those whom the entire world looks UP to. Guru Nanak for example….. or Jesus (No, not the Islamic Isa, but the other one)
Too Late…..too late…..
You cannot change your tactics now, because you are already branded,
and you cannot close your site, because this will show that you are defeated.
1- And why do you think the world needs an alternative personality to Muhammad? Apart from the fact that anyone is better than him, I see no reason for humans to be followers of anyone? We are endowed with a brain. We can distinguish right from wrong. Why should we follow someone else, especially someone like Mu who says evil is good, murder is holy, rape is divine, and fighting is prescribed for you even though you don’t like it, because you don’t know what is good for you and what is bad for you?
2- I strongly oppose fabricating a distorted image of Muhammad. I believe nothing is more damaging than truth, when it comes to him.
3- Yes truth can stand alone and it is only lies that need the support of censorship. That is why criticism of Islam is banned in all Islamic countries and Muslims are doing their best to ban it in the Internet too.
“Islam can be understood either you should have IQ 189+ or you should just believe ! ”
This, although funny, is in reality the tragedy of the mind of the Muslims. They actually are convinced that although they don’t understand Islam someone more knowledgeable than them and smarter than them can. But that is a delusion. Then they think since Islam is true and there is no reason to doubt or question it, it is okay to force it on others and even murder those who don’t agree with it. No name, you encapsulated the mentality of all Muslims in one sentence. I could mot do it as succinctly as you have.
Oh now I understand. Rainbow and Amin are the same people. i have encountered this with Muslims before. But usually they pretend to be Christian or atheist in an attempt to lend objectivity and weight to there lies and logical fallacies. LOL! You made a mistake Amin. You outed yourself. LOL!
Who are you talking to? Branded a liar? Produce the evidence that i lied. I can do the same. I dismiss everything you say because I brand you a liar. That is preposterous! More ad hominem attacks. Is this all Muslims can do? Where and when did I say dirty things about you? I have never spoken to you before,
So now you are the liar and everything you say is suspect. Typical hypocrisy!
Produce the evidence for any of your fallacious assertions!
Too late……too late
You cannot change your tactics now, because you are BRANDED…….. A LIAR,
Also you cannot close your site, because you then announce defeat….
you are doomed either way.
There is only way one to save you butt, but I am not going to tell you,
because you said dirty things about me. I will tell Mommy about you.
I don't hate Muslims as people. I hate their religion and what they do as the result of their religion.
However, to answer your question, yes you hate the Jews and all the unbelievers. This is not something you can get away from it. It is part of your faith. Even Jews when convert to Islam start hating other Jews.
"What is more ironic is that in 20 years or so, since Ali Sina became the self professed Islam expert, he hasn't had the intellect to at least master the Arabic language in order to champion his cause further. He cherry picks verses and then misquotes the Quran at every turn, but doesn't understand the language in the first place."
—————————
Well Ali… it just so happens that people who DO understand Arabic say exactly the same things about Islam as Ali Sina!
The dominant (and official) language of Syria is Arabic. But Syrians are saying exactly the same things about Islam as Ali Sina! Do they not understand Islam correctly either?-
Interview with Tim Marshall: Christians could only live in post-Assad Syria if they paid the Jizya…. because Prophet Muhammad said so
Syrian rebel leader: "We want Sharia to be applied because it’s the right path for all humanity"
Osama Bin Laden is of Yemen/Saudi Arabia origin and so are/were many other senior members of Al-Qaeda. Do they not know Arabic in Yemen and Saudi Arabia?-
Amputations, beheadings and a crucifixion: Sharia being practiced in Yemen
Saudi Arabia: Muslim cleric labels women "whores" for working with men
Here are some more examples of Muslim clerics and seminaries saying the same things. Do the clerics (people who spend years studying Islam) not understand Islam correctly either?-
India: Deoband seminary issues fatwa against Muslim female receptionists
Australian Islamist: The answer to Palestine is not by holding hands with the Infidels. It’s not by pleading to the U.N. to accept Palestine as a nation. The answer is, as the Prophet said, to fight the infidels until the religion belongs to Allah
Tunisia: Muslim cleric calls Jews prophet slayers and apes, prays for Allah to annihilate them
And why is it that everyone who 'misunderstands' Islam and Arabic, does so in exactly the same way??
You Muslims are so good at falsifying the history. The traitor was Muhammad not the Bani Quraiza or other Jews whom he massacred or banished.
You need to read the Sira. The truth is very different from what you think.
@Slave of Prophet
Every single article here at alisina.org and at faithfreedom.org relating to Muhammad/Quran/Islam proves that Islam is FALSE! These Articles were here before you even issued your challenge.
You lost the moment you issued your challenge! Now don't make us wait and transfer the money quick!
aminriadh is running from a challenge that he said he would take. He is deflecting by character assassination and claiming my evidence is unclear in an attempt to flee from discourse.
All he does is attack the debater. Tactics he uses!
Red herring – a speaker attempts to distract an audience by deviating from the topic at hand by introducing a separate argument which the speaker believes will be easier to speak to.
Ad hominem – attacking the arguer instead of the argument.
Poisoning the well – a type of ad hominem where adverse information about a target is presented with the intention of discrediting everything that the target person says
Abusive fallacy – a subtype of "ad hominem" when it turns into name-calling rather than arguing about the originally proposed argument.
Keep running!
My argument is here for all to see. he says it is a mess so he thinks he can get away from debating the topic. He has NO integrity!
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/01/jews-and-musli…
it is under peacefulIslam's ridiculous video!
Watch how he continues to run and use ad hominem!
All I ever see you do is attack people and deny. Yes I provided the evidence that you are a hypocrite.
How good is the English? So I made a typo. I write quickly and dont always reread. That is not an argument you are making. You are attempting to undermine me and demonize me! Its a cheap shot called character assassination. Among other things. This isnt about grammar or spelling. All you do is try to undermine people so you can deflect from the true arguments! You attempt to diminish the argument of your opponent by deflecting to anything other than the topic.
No I am not accusing you falsely! Denial pf reality is not an argument either!
And here is the evidence that proves what I said!
aminriadh95p · 12 hours ago
He is bigging himself up . . . . Sina doesn't like muscling in on his territory.
aminriadh94p · 10 hours ago
Not another one!
Look what happened to all others that made this claim . . . even Sina hides!
– – –
I accept – but try reading up what happened to people like J Stilwater, Demsci, Julia, Sina, knowTheEnemy . . . .
Clear and consice evidence that you are a liar and deflecting! Denying evidence is in no way a rebuttal.
——————————
Quote "
Again . . . you paste from what I said to you in an unrelated post. . . . then you say the above!
So what are you talking about? "
No what are you talking about. I showed that you are a hypocrite for attempting to portray Sina as "bigging himself up" Nice english by the way. Hypocrisy again!
I am showing what you said in a previous post to expose your hypocrisy! What relevance does it have that it was in a previous post? Your inconsistent and a hypocrite!
—————————————————-
My assertions are clear. Claiming ignorance is not a rebuttal. It is not a mess. It is clear. You are attacking the messenger, using character assassination, lying, and hypocrisy to deflect from the topic. All you do is focus on people because you have no leg to stand on regarding my factual conclusions!
Keep running and deflecting! You have NO integrity!
@John
What is the punishment for treason according to the Law of Moses and who did the Banu Qurayza tribe ask for the judgement? The leader of the Aws Tribe, which they accepted, as it was in line with the rules of the Torah.
Do you see me with a blog hating a certain group all the whilst trying to fleece the gullible pretending to be an expert, rehashing schit?
I rest my case.
Who told you this was a reason? Ever you open for finding truth or jumping on those conclusions coz that make you feel good and give you something against Islam lol !!!
Banu Qurayza 1
Banu Qurayza 2
Your problem is already mentioned in earlier comment !
You are just as guilty of what you condemn Ali Sina of.
Just believe in Islam or we will cut your head off. This is what Muhammad did to the 900 men from the Banu Qurayza tribe.
I am not impressed by ridiculous strategy of anti-Islamists !
1. They don't have any alternative personality who can stand against prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
2. They fabricated distant counter image of personality of Muhammad(pbuh) himself to damage real image.
3. Truth is palatable, support nature and obvious. If its not truth it can't stand long.
Islam can be understood either you should have IQ 189+ or you should just believe !
U RITE SLAVE,
NO ONE CAN COMPARE TO YOUR MURDERING, RAPING, CHILD MOLESTING, BI-SEXUALLY ACTIVE ARABIAN THUG!
GENGHIS KHAN & HITLER HAD SOME STANDARDS!
MOHAMMEDANS ARE FORBIDDEN TO PLAY CHESS!
WHY?
WELL, YOU CAN FIGHT, F__K & FART ON A CAMEL, BUT TRY PLAYING CHESS!
SERIOUSLY THOUGH, MOHAMMED COULDN'T TOLERATE THE POWER OF THE QUEEN PIECE ON THE CHESS BOARD.
NOW YOU KNOW WHY MOHAMMEDANS DON'T PLAY CHESS.
Why are you angry with me brother Riaz. It was unexpected from your side to post. Brother Firasat has given a fiction. Why you have any problem for my commenting on him ?
Dear Slave of Prophet, there is a poster called Sanatan Dharma, who is in fact from Agniveer side. Please try to defeat him/her. Then only your assumption that Dr Naik is perfect will be proven.
The beauty about Ali Sina's articles is that just when the pot starts getting cold, he warms it up with more garbage and puts the pitch in for his movie. Desperate times, call for desperate measures. Fleece, fleece until you can fleece no more Ali Sina!
The fiction he so ardently refutes in the article is no different to the fiction Ali Sina himself has been promoting over the years.
What is more ironic is that in 20 years or so, since Ali Sina became the self professed Islam expert, he hasn't had the intellect to at least master the Arabic language in order to champion his cause further. He cherry picks verses and then misquotes the Quran at every turn, but doesn't understand the language in the first place. Even if he does quote the English translation, he never gives the full synopsis of the verse. The quotes are in isolation.
In our time, we find it becoming more and more common for people like Ali Sina to misquote verses from the Quran, or narrations of Mohammed , in order to support their twisted presentation of Islam.
This so-called expert on Islam seems to almost concur on some link between Islam and violence. Though it's hard to exonerate any of these experts from a political agenda or sometimes a pure hatred for Islam and/or Muslims, which in Ali Sina's case, is the case.
When they read the Quran, the opponents of its message tend not to place adequate importance on the obvious difference between Jesus and Muhammad. Jesus was the spiritual leader of a small and intimate group of followers at a time of relative peace throughout the land. He suffered death, according to the Christian scriptures, but his execution by the Rome-governed state came after a short burst of state anger that actually followed several years of him being able to preach without severe opposition and no known violence.
By contrast, Mohammed (in some ways like Moses) found himself not only the spiritual but also the political and legislative leader of a massive community that wanted to be moderate, just and inclusive but suffered organised warfare from other political entities which were committed to its destruction. His responsibilities (including the governance, sustenance and protection of tens of thousands of children, men and women) were very different.
The scholars and pundits who dislike the fact that Mohammed had to fight his way to peace and who consider his religion to be inherently martial often add to their condemnation. Many critics assert that these verses directs Muslims to wage war against any and all disbelievers anywhere who refuse to embrace Islam or at least to submit to Islamic rule.
Before even beginning to answer this BS from the critics of Islam like Ali Sina, it is worth observing that even among the scriptures that form the bedrock and bulk of the Judeo-Christian tradition, the Old Testament, are verses that explicitly advocate murderous large-scale violence incompatible with any codes of warfare that Jews and Christians would nowadays condone. When Joshua led the Israelites into the Promised Land and promptly laid siege to Jericho, which was the first walled city they encountered west of the Jordan River, “they destroyed with the sword every living thing in it — men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.”
The lack of what we would today call discrimination between combatants and non-combatants accorded with God’s earlier commandment that, in areas which God had set aside for their occupation, the Israelites were to ensure that, “without mercy,” they did not leave alive “anything that breathed”.
“It is a wonderful sight,” Roman commander Scipio Aemilianus Africanus gushed in 146 B.C. as he watched his forces raze the enemy city of Carthage to the ground following his order that no trace of it should remain. “Yet I feel a terror and dread lest someone should one day give the same order about my own native city.”
The Holocaust of the Jews in the Second World War, one of history’s vilest crimes, involved the organised murder of six million Jews by Germans and others who considered themselves Christians or at least members of the Christian value system. Other crimes perpetrated by Christians during recent wars have included the (Orthodox Christian) Bosnian Serb massacre of 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys in and around the town of Srebrenica.
British author Karen Armstrong once wrote, “the militant form of piety often known as fundamentalism erupted in every major religion as a rebellion against modernity.” Every minority fundamentalist movement within the major faiths that she has studied “is convinced that liberal, secular society is determined to wipe out religion. Fighting, as they imagine, a battle for survival, fundamentalists often feel justified in ignoring the more compassionate principles of their faith. But in amplifying the more aggressive passages that exist in all our scriptures, they distort the tradition.”
Take tips Ali Sina, take tips. You seem to plagiarize and rehash every other anti Islamic article on the net, in order to further your cause.
Salve, a "greater mind", who married 9 year old Aisha when he was 54? Would you get your 6 year old daughter engaged to a 51 year old man, who is old enough to be her grandfather? That's called pedophilia.
Hi Slave of the Pdo-prophet, since YOU claim Islam is divine, its YOUR job to prove that it is. If I claim there's a dragon under my bed, its ME who has to prove it. Its not someone else's duty to prove that the dragon doesn't exist. Until I prove it exists, it does not.
Ali has proven Islam false in all of his site. You know about his 50K challenge. Why don't you prove Muhammad was really a prophet of God? Start a thread on the FFI forum.
All of the mentioned warlords had bigger empires than Muhammad. Oh, and Muhammad was defeated by kafirs in many battles
"Sina was just stating what he has read that he has found know evidence to support what was in the slide show, So you are a hypocrite and misrepresenting his actions. "
Read the above . . . how good is the English?
And then:
"So you are a hypocrite and misrepresenting his actions."
No – you are accusing me falsely. Not clever.
– – –
"
And would you interpret as stupidity is not. You can make the assertion that what he said was stupid. But that is argument of opinion. Not fact. "
Again . . . you paste from what I said to you in an unrelated post. . . . then you say the above!
So what are you talking about?
– – –
"And in no way is it hate to say that only a Muslim would make such a bias video. Muslims do it all the time. They ignore the sunna and suras they dislike and reinterpret and cherry pick just as this man did. Sina is actually being honest and showing objectivity and charachter by disapproving of this slide show because of its lack of historical content. "
This is NOT an answer to anything I have said.
– – –
"I will be consistant with your logical fallacies and misrepresentations.
See how stupid you are!
Now go back and refute my comments and lets do this"
Read your own comment back to yourself. It is a mess.
= = = =
This is poor – really really poor.
Just odd bits of posting – with few petty false accusations . . . another one – that comes with huge claims but falls way short!
@Fot
"If we use your logics, then Genghis Khan, Hitler and bin Laden were equally great minds"
I did not think you would be too mad. How many people know to Changish Khan, How Hitler got defeated Iind world war is before us. No one among them stands in comparison with prophet.
@ Slave of prophet
How can the fact that Muhammad fought more than 1000 victorious wars justify that he was a great mind? If we use your logics, then Genghis Khan, Hitler and bin Laden were equally great minds.
Define false please.
Islam exists. So it is impossible to prove it is false. Are you asking to prove it is not from God? Provide the attributes, character and morality of your God. Prove there is a God. We could do this all day.
If you want me to prove that Islam is fascist, bigoted, intolerant, misogynistic, illogical, irrational and therefor cannot be from a just and moral by todays standards then I have no problem ad you can write me that check. But we have to set the guidelines that I have to meet to prove to you that Islam is not from a God.
or adultery?
Prophet fought all war for righteousness. Prophet does not mean not to fight for truth.
wow.. what a prophet.. wins 1000 wars.. there you go a perfect man of God or is he a war lord?
so if you religion is about war, capturing slaves and tricking people into submitting into being your slaves then Islam is your religion..
if you're religion is about God then maybe we should look to a real prophet who is teaching us about the path to God.
I think you have just proved Ali Sina totally right.. mohammad is a war lord that would be charged today as being a war criminal
Actually this is chest thumping. Sina was just stating what he has read that he has found know evidence to support what was in the slide show, So you are a hypocrite and misrepresenting his actions.
-1
aminriadh94p · 10 hours ago
"
Well i know the truth! Islam is an evil, fascist, bigoted, intolerant, violent, misogynistic death cult bent on the subjugation or death of all non Muslims!
And I challenge any Muslim to debate me! "
Not another one!
Look what happened to all others that made this claim . . . even Sina hides!
– – –
I accept – but try reading up what happened to people like J Stilwater, Demsci, Julia, Sina, knowTheEnemy . . . .
Then if you think you are up to it . . . . come along.
Is hypocrisy in your vocabulary?
And would you interpret as stupidity is not. You can make the assertion that what he said was stupid. But that is argument of opinion. Not fact.
And in no way is it hate to say that only a Muslim would make such a bias video. Muslims do it all the time. They ignore the sunna and suras they dislike and reinterpret and cherry pick just as this man did. Sina is actually being honest and showing objectivity and charachter by disapproving of this slide show because of its lack of historical content.
I will be consistant with your logical fallacies and misrepresentations.
See how stupid you are!
Now go back and refute my comments and lets do this.
You read what i posted now dont deflect. I will be waiting!
Who can be greater mind than prophet Mohammed who fought more than 1000 wars during his life time and he was victorious in all. What was the reason of prophet victory? Not army strength but his decisions/ strategies at particular time.
"Anyone who knows about war strategies, or has played chess, knows foolish moves can make one lose".
My favorite quote from Ali Sina. If you have to do it, at least make sure to do it right!
@Ali Sina
Few days before I challenged you to prove Islam is false. If you prove Islam is false I would give you 200000 USD. But no one including you and your Idol worshiper Hindu friends could meet the challenge of mine.
So what does it take to convince Islamofacists that quran is a blood thirsty text?
If the quran was the word of God and perfect why does islam have to kill so many people?
why are muslims killing muslims ( iraq, syria, iran, lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, pakistan, india, indonesia, sudan, niger, morroco, saudi arabia, palistine, and xxxstans) .. and more
why are muslims killing budhists (thialand, burma, china)
why are muslims killing hindus (india, pakistan, cashmire)
why are muslims killing christians ( iraq, syria, iran, lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, pakistan, india, indonesia, sudan, niger, morroco, saudi arabia, palistine, stans, russia, america, bali, spain, london, france, nigeria, south sudan, phillipines, and more)
if the quran is so perfect why must a man with a sword force people to become muslim?
if the quran is so perfect why would anyone ever apostate?
if the quran is so perfect why are 1.6 billion of the poorest people muslim?
maybe the quran is crule joke by a man called mohammad who like hilter put himself above God!
" I am against making up facts"
Really! You make up some fine ones by your self.
Here is one:
"Obama, born a Muslim and still a Muslim knows about it just as much as I do. "
See the stupidity of this person!
– – –
Another stupidity:
"Take the example of Pastor Terry Jones’s infamous Quran burning incidence. I applauded him when he announced he plans to burn the Quran and then said he won’t do it. I thought that was a great stunt. He raised the awareness about the Muslims’ violence, but did not provoke them and no lives were lost. I was shocked when he went ahead and burned the damned book. That resulted in the death of at least 30 people, including seven UN workers, and injury to other 150 people.
What was the gain? Nothing!"
So the rants of a mad pastor highlight Muslims violence how?
And when Muslim violence happens – that is then nothing gained!
– – –
"I have studied Islam for nearly two decades and even then I went through thousands of pages of Sirat of Ibn Ishaq, Tabari and Tabaqat and also the biography of Muhammad written by Sir William Muir, and I read countless hadiths and then spent five months full time, to write a script. After which I spent almost a year editing and polishing it. How can one write and put together a movie in under two months and with no budget? Imran had no use for my council. He wanted to make a movie and make it fast."
He is bigging himself up . . . . Sina doesn't like muscling in on his territory.
This alleged reading up is false . . . . read his book – and the sparse use of "sources" and "references" – will highlight the above lie.
He has NOT read much in terms of Western scholarship – and is largely unaware of it.
Damn – he has NOT even read . . . work of Farsi about Islam.
Else he would really be coming out with it.
He has read few sites of Internet . . . . hence why his work reflects this.
– – –
"Not only Imran’s facts are inaccurate, his interpretation of the life of Muhammad is also incorrect. He does not know the history of Muhammad and does not understand his motives."
So are yours – as successfully pointed out!
– – –
"Not even one in a thousand Muslims knows the Quran and far fewer have read the original biographies of their prophet."
Sina himself has NOT read such works in their original language – as he is unable to do so.
His biography claims are also false . . . . because he copied something about Prophet Muhammad's name being Qutahm . . . his source?
A Youtube video! Yet he could and did NOT check the sources – in Sirah halabiyah.
So what has he been reading? A paltry few books – and that is about it.
– – –
"Imran does not have the needed understanding of the man he purports to describe and demystify."
Neither does Sina . . .
Interesting read:
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/07/what-happened-…
See how and why this whole Psycho thing is a BS. And why no one has bothered to buy it!
– – –
"I finally saw the entire video. I really have not heard so much nonsense from anyone other than a Muslim."
See the hate monger could NOT keep hate out of his voice.
– – –
I think we should track Sina down! I think there is real surprise waiting here. . . . like people exposed the fake Syrian blogger . . . this one is fake too!
Ali is exactly right in all of what he said: (1)"However, despite all the hype it is not a movie, but a slide show. " – as many others have called it and (2) "the story is his personal opinion, not supported by facts".
This is a failed venture. Sorry Imran, you should have gotten help and feedback before you released it, if you really wanted it to succeed.
Lets hope one day someone will make a really good effective movie. For now, this is just a nobody making an anonymous commentary on Islam and there's nothing scholarly about it.
Even Muslims are not going to be bothered by it. It wont result in any riots. It will make people go to sleep though as Ali said and if they wake up too late, they may miss work. If a lot of people miss work, the employers may riot. So I guess that would mean the movie was a success.
Is this another one of your strange proclamations? You don't have the GUTS for anything real . . . hence the pretense of nonsense. Well – amuse yourself.
Fiction begets fiction.
Man I'm sooo disappointed. I was looking forward to seeing an actual movie.