The Golden Rule and Islam

Rajesh says:

(Continued…)
Naturally this is a ridiculous answer and a ridiculous analogy. Why should God ‘test’ people without proof? Zakir Naik is of course assuming that Allah wrote the Quran. What is the proof of that- since it was dictated by Muhammad? A God like Allah who needs Angels like Gabriel to do his work, who lives only in a particular part of the Universe and who cannot even give good stationery to his chosen Messenger to record the Quran and makes his followers write it on palm trees, stones, camel bones in a language where the whole meaning can change with the slightest change in alphabet, and whose book Quran saw many versions within 20 years of the death of Muhammad is of course very unlikely to write the Quran. Actually Chapter 41 Verse 53 itself is a proof that Islam is false. “Soon will We show them our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the Horizons), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?” But this God did not show any signs, did not re arrange stars in a manner that they read at night “Islam is true”, filled the Quran with errors, mistakes and contradictions, and did absolutely nothing to prove that Islam is from God either during Muhammad’s time or later. Far from showing his signs in the furthest of regions, God actually kept the Muslims (and also the rest of the world) completely unaware about two whole continents of the world- viz South America and North America until nearly 900 years of the birth of Islam! Christopher Columbus accidentally discovered America in 1492 and thought that he had reached India!

Look at the other passage quoted by Zakir Naik – Chapter 10, Verse 99:
“If it had been thy Lord’s will, he would have made all human beings as believers,- all who are on earth!” This is another point which will go against Islam. If God could have easily made all humans as believers then why is the message of Islam ‘convert or kill’ with unbelievers being allowed to remain as “Dhimmis” paying the Jizyah tax in the first instance? The whole Quran contains more than 70 passages urging Muslims to wage war on non-Muslims, convert or kill them and shun them in this life and the next. Apostates i.e. those Muslims who leave Islam are given death penalty. This is the legal provision in many Muslim countries even today, like Afghanistan a state supposedly rescued by liberals from the radical Taliban, which gives death penalty for leaving Islam. If there is no compulsion in religion and God can easily make all humans as believers then why should apostates be given death penalty?The Quran in 2:27, 2:39, 3:90-91, 4:89, 9:66, 9:74, 47:25-26 makes it clear that apostates are to be punished. Some passages of the Quran are quoted below:

“8:60 And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah…

8:12 I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Unbelievers

2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them

2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

8:15-16, O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day – unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself

8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers

9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed

9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

8:39, And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere.”

Sakat says:

If there is only theory (belief) and virtually no practical instrument to test that theory ,how? one will prove the theory is right ,think about it.!!!

Sakat says:

See how the Master behaves . . . . !

Hence why your disciples act like you . . . look at Sakat!

I never claim i am his disciple , if you condensed on that term ,"disciples" ,again you must define the term "Disciple" to our understanding .Already you have faltered in defining the term "Knowledge",at least try here to resolve your "fare knowledge". See how hard truth affects whole system of your being,tame your ego ,you will be a very good human being independent of that MAD MOHAMMED , i know you are that "silence" and you want to silence us ,real god resides in silence ,but that is not you yet.

Sakat says:

Mr Sina, once again you have proved that,you were always right and you are right and you will be.Other wise these people wouldn't have given up contesting you,hats up!!!!

Silence says:

Call yourself what you will, but you are building a following and waging a words war against people who do not deserve your hatred. There are plenty of Muslims who are pure of heart, regardless of what paper says. Their ways may be different from yours, but I can assure you — You are preaching in the wrong way about the wrong person at the wrong time.
This will be my final response, but before I go — I am charging you with the responsibility to have a heart-to-heart with your Deity. Turn to whomever you pray to and ask, "What is right?" Do not ask it in a fleeting moment. Ask it with length, focus, clarity and by setting your own opinion aside from it. If you find that this is truly right of you, continue it. Do as you wish. I will no longer criticize your actions. However, I have a strong feeling that if you truly connect with God and ask, "what is right?"… you will find that this, what you are doing here, is not right.
I bid thee fare well, and I hope thou canst allow thy God show thee truth.

chuck says:

'hate' here is used in a comparative manner. He is saying that if any body comes to him, he should be prepared to give up his family and even his life. This is made clear by use of the phrase "and his own life also" for how can you hate your own life? This is further understood from the context , 14:25 : Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said. Off course here he didn't seem to like fan following only, he wished to have for company only the truest who could give up everything. This goes perfectly well with the next 2 examples Luke 14:28-33.

Silence says:

"Once they accept you as a prophet, guru or their spiritual guide, then you can do whatever you want and get away with it."
I agree, and I think that is exactly what you are doing with this website. You are raising the masses against a people that you seem to know nothing about. True, there are many bad people in Islaam. However, there are just as many (if not more) ignorant and blind Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Wiccans, CHRISTIANS and any follower of any religion. Their is darkness in every religion, but EVERY religion's core values are peace, love for one another and happiness. It is not the religion that aims to create darkness, it is the blind followers misinterpreting metaphors. In order for you to call yourself a man of God, you must recognize the golden rule yourself! But by writing this garbage, you lower yourself to be everything you protest. "Love thy neighbor," be he near or far, nice or mean, placid or eccentric, Christian or Otherwise. Disgracing these people is not accordance with the Golden Rule, and as far as I can tell — not in accordance with God.

I'm no Almighty says:

Why Relief with Religious Tag. Let the Petro Dollars be given to Charitable Institutions among all Religions. Many Religious Institutions will play mischief in the name of Relief which ultimately leads to clashes in society which are Long-lasting compared to Natural Calamities.

I'm no Almighty says:

Why not Petro-dollars be spent on Poor instead of wasting on spreading Religious Tentacles. Once people realize it is Most Peaceful Religion they will automatically embrace it. Then, no need for making it fastest growing by 'Disastorously Fast Breeding'.

aminriadh says:

huh? One day you might learn to read . . . but I doubt it. If all that schooling didn't work – what chance have you got.

I was merely correcting someone . . .

– – –

"why do you want to add into your religions the thinks that aren't in quran and hadiths? "

What would you know about the Quran? Except nothing.

– – –

It is always the same, with you . . . few lines of nonsensical comments.

aminriadh says:

"If there is no punishment (no Hell), then killing people/fasting/religious duties are no longer important… –> you end-up in static-sterile-afterlife any ways…"

The song by Ahmad Dhani – doesn't refute existence of Hell or Heaven – in the same way Imagine by Lennon does . . . but explores the motivation behind worshiping God. . . . along Sufi lines and concepts.

Hence – your understanding isn't quite there.

hasan4463 says:

okay Mr sayed Umar Rastogy let’s see your assumptions and questions I laughed almost when you told that you reject The hadiths I had provided to you to counter that argument you have provided these statements :(( Then let me question you ………… unreliable Ibn Ishaq is let me show some of your points and then some of mine ))————————– Blatantly and straight forwardly I defy your claim of judgment. I see your judgments rely on internet based information rather than using your own self wit, judgment and understanding the true facts according to your self findings. Lets have a look at the reason of authenticity : Muhammad: – died 632 AD : Ibn Ishaq:- Born 704, died 770 AD : Ibn Hisham :- Died 833 AD : Al-Dhahabi :- Born 1274, died 1348 ADIf I can get you right the summary of your statement was that 1 There are fatal contradictions in Hadith 2 This contradiction has caused muslims to leave Islam and Hadith both. 3According to youclaim the nearest source is the most authentic. okay ??? then I have to say sorry brother as there were even more ancient sources than sirate-ibn-ishaq and even they Make my prophet more enigmatic than even Ibne-Hisham .I am going to state their names. Aban b. `Uthman al-Bajkali (640-718 C.E.),`Urwa b. al-Zubayr b. al-Awwam (643-712 C.E.) the cousin of the Prophet and referred to the founder of Islamic history. There is doubt that he authored anything, but there are many traditiions that have been handed down in his name.and Musannaf of Ibn Jurayj (d. 150 AH)Musannaf of Ma`mar bin Rashid (d. 153 AH)these are the sources of earliest Islamic knowledge Sirat Ibn ishaq couldhave been a good source but do you know why I reject it ? The original text of the Sīrat Rasūl Allāh by Ibn Ishaq (Medina 85 A.H.; Bagdad 151 ) did not survive. Yet it was one of the earliest substantial biographies of Muhammad. Fortunately, as noted above, much of the original text was copied over into a work of his own by Ibn Hisham (Basra; Fustat c. 218 A.H.)source:Dates and places, and discussions, re Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham in Guillaume (xiii, xli).So the Ibn ishaq we see is very very much questionable. You nust be thinking then who wrote the IShaq we see and then let’s think what was the source for Ishaq ? were they these ? no they were another book whichwas written by Shurabil b. sa`d (740 C.E.), who was a latter man at this stage and see Shurabil b. sa`d (740 C.E.), who wrote a maghazi, but this book was considered unreliable and thus seldom used by later historians. I ask why ?? I defy you also by geting forward and telling that your assumption were totally wrong!as there are even earlier resources which tells me MY prophet wasa avery good man . May be this will solve some of your question . And to your other question/claim The unreliability of the Ibn Ishaq can be found here in detail “The Life of Muhammad” by Ibn Ishaq has been quoted by many critics of Islam. They get excited when Ibn Ishaq paints a bad picture of Prophet Muhammad and use it in their writings to attack Islam.Although Ibn Ishaqwas the earliest of the traditionists to write a biography of the events that pertained to the time of Muhammad (p) there are several severe problems with his writings. As Bassam Zawadi says” just because something is early doesn't mean it is true”. He has a good point.Not everyone back then was reliable and honest.Ibn Ishaq was known to be careless in him collecting stories about the Prophet, etc. Several respected Muslim theologians rightly reject his (Ibn Ishaq's) authority for several reasons: (A) That he was a Shi'i favouring Ali over all the other contenders to the Khilfa(B) That he held the view that Man has free will, which is kind of contrary to the Quranic perception. (C)That his Isnads (chains of transmissions) were defective, ie not 'iron' tight by naming all the reporters, which is important because this determines whether the transmitter of the story is trustworthy or not. Ibn Ishaq was not an eye witness to any of the events of Prophet Muhammad's life.Ibn Ishaq was writing about 150 years after the Prophet's death so this is very important. In Islamic sciences in order for a report of the Prophet (peace be on him) to be true is if the isnad is solid or not.(D) He used reports of traditions gathered from Jewish sources. Jews made up a lot of false stories/legends of Prophet Muhammad (just like the early Christians living outside of Palestine made up a lot of myths and legends of Jesus and put them in the Gospels). Making up stories and legends about the Prophet are unnacceptable in the eyes of many Islamic scholars. (E) Ibn Ishaq was (for lack of better term) a “suck up” to the Jews of Arabia. He said several complimentary reports of the Jews of Arabia, despite the fact that the Jews of Arabia were constatnly fighting with the Arabs and were charging interest when loaning money. The Jews of Madinah were constatly plotting againist the Prophet Muhammad. They were always trying to undermine his authority. In fact they sided with the Makkans in order to assinate the Prophet. (F) Most important of all, his report about Laylat al Qadr (the first revelation), contradicts all the hadith versions. The hadith collectors Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, etc were more careful in collecting their hadith (their chains of transmission). (G) There are several stories in Ibn Ishaq which are never found in the hadith. The reason why is because several hadith collectors such as Bukhari– did not trust Ibn Ishaq. Ibn Ishaq as an author was in fact subjected to devastating attacks by scholars, contemporary or later, on two particular accounts. One was his uncritical inclusion in his Sira of so much spurious or forged poetry [7] ;the other his unquestioning acceptance of just such a story as that of the slaughter of Banu QurayazaSo In fact Ibn Ishaq is the most unreliable source not the reliable and not even the earliest.

Syed Umar Rastogi says:

Mr. Hasan don’t make farce with your knowledge you deem to be under knowledgeable person or shrewdly trying to hide behind your twisted falsified claim, look for your self I asked about sex slave that slaves that are women and child female. And you posed with slaves lets look
(((1st point Islam Advocated Sex slaves It’s not true at allindeed Islam condemns he who sells any freeman as slave.
As prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) stated
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: -1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. -2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, -3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' "(One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price) See this is there any question on slavery of a free man next to your mind ? ))) Hilarious !!! really so blind folded.

Hilarious logic, ya you seem to lose your own justification too hun?
((And You may ask why did she didn’t go and married prophet ? so then here is your answer.

"It is related that she bore the mark of a bruise upon her eye; when the Prophet asked her tenderly the cause, she told him that, being yet Kenāna's bride, she saw in a dream as if the moon had fallen from the heavens into her lap; and that when she told it to Kenāna, he struck her violently, saying: 'What is this thy dream but that thou covetest the new king of the Ḥijāz, the Prophet, for thy husband!' The mark of the blow was the same which Moḥammad saw." cf. Muir (1912) pp. 378-379

So nither her marriage was a rape nor she was compelled .And if you tell these proofs as hoaxes then I must question why are you raising questions on these matters ?))

=== Quoted ((Safiyyah is the daughter of the leader of a Jewish tribe and the wife of the treasurer of that tribe. She witnesses her father and uncle being killed in battle. Then she has the misfortune seeing her husband tortured to death in the manner described above by the MUSLIM biographers. After all that, we are asked to believe that she immediately fell in love with the man responsible for all these atrocities? Come on man! Give your audience some credit. How long did Mohammed allow Safiyya to mourn for her father, uncle and husband? Who can think of marriage immediately after a massacre like that?

The truth is that Safiyyah was considered ?Spoils of War? for Mohammed. He chose the fairest and the finest because ?a fifth of the spoils belong to Allah and his prophet?.)) ======I don’t have time to comply to your stupid replies at least you might have lost your brain but I am not. Safiyah was taken as Shahi Bukhari inscribed
====(1) Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a losers. (Book #62, Hadith #27)
Really you blind folded Islamic are so escapist that you thought if you snob these things to me you can easily pass away? No way..

Syed Umar Rastogi says:

So please next time no argument over placing copy paste net sources unless until you can say something by yourself on your own wit and knowledge and justification using your common sense. Biased people like I think you can’t, because you fear to admit what you have fought for long time unless you are ignorant to understand the facts.

: Now let’s talk about illicit Sex and sex slaves, Here my points are verses
Q. 23: 1-7)
1-The believers must (eventually) win through,-
2- Those who humble themselves in their prayers;
3-Who avoid vain talk;
4- Who are active in deeds of charity;
5- Who abstain from sex,
6- Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
7- But those whose desires exceed those limits are transgressors;-
Clearly without doubt shows that sex with slaves is permitted to whome right hand posses, still practiced in Saudi Arab, many of the female main servant from philipine, indonesia, malay india, pakistan , bangladesh stopped sending further female worker in the middle east due to permission of sex with slaves .
Better posts are in Alinsina’s blog http://alisina.org/safiyah-the-jewish-wife-of-muh…
As I had already turned down the rejected allegations against the hadis sources of Ishaq and tabari therefore, it is true by no doubt. If you want to refute than start with 1. why Islamic scholars were divided in understanding and collecting of the resources taken? , 2. Time span and advancements from the resources and later writers authenticity to rejecting the quotes.

As I said earlier that I deny what modern so called scholars have to say about hadis and who are they to do so?? On what reliable basis? Contradiction and confusion cannot be the basis. I have seen you are an expert in twisting the real truth behind a great lie , or u have sheer ignorance about resources just a copy paster PhD. You being shamelessly did this with purpose,
///Marriage of Safiyah (widow of Kinanah) . -The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free(Look at this sect), and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. "I choose God and His Messenger," she said; and they were married at the first halt on the homeward march. -The marriage to Safiyyah(R) has a political significance as well, as it helps to reduce hostilities and cement alliances. – This significant act of marrying Safiyyah(R) was indeed a great honor for her, for this not only preserved her dignity, it also prevented her from becoming a slave (Sahih bukhari Volume 3, Book 33, Number 251: Narrated Ali bin Al-Husain)///
You better see the hadis what’s written in there
///Safiya, the wife of the Prophet told me that she went to Allah's Apostle to visit him in the mosque while he was in Itikaf in the last ten days of Ramadan. She had a talk with him for a —-………………"Satan reaches everywhere in the human body as blood reaches in it, (everywhere in one's body). I was afraid lest Satan might insert an evil thought in your minds."//
you either thought me as an ignorant retard which seems you are the one who shamelessly used the hadis quotes out of know context. That’s why I asked do you really come from Muslim family or a convert; it seems you lack a severe knowledge in understanding the Quranic Truth. Not only that, you misused the quotes on misjudgments or shrewdly did it just to take a chance, to establish your false truth .
The reference you used here is falsified that are actually from Muhammad Husayn Haykal, The Life of Muhammad, 1933;I don’t find any authentic resources from where did he got ((The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free(Look at this sect), and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. "I choose God and His Messenger,"))) seems again another falsified evidence to cover up the allegation against Muhammod , whenever there was an allegation these so called historians ,scholars found out these type of stories to cover up. But the question is for how long??? for how long you people will try to cover-up unless the Quran and hadis become completely nude and there will be nothing to cover up. Safiyas marriage was a rape or what is completely shown in hisham and Tabari what was done to her one days stayed husband, Shame on such religion and shame on those who deny it blindly.

Syed Umar Rastogi says:

Mr. Hassan I am sorry for the late reply as I was busy with my personal matters. Now let me get you one by one.
First of all I haven’t ever either went away from claiming the authenticity of Quran and Hadis and its contradictions. That was my first point and I have set my logic and goals according to. But you seem, not to be able to understand the logic I pointed out. We are just mere people debating on what is right and wrong according to one’s own general common sense and wit. Most of the bigotry, blindfolded, biased islamist are like you, they pass away the main point beating the bush here and there. You are not exceptional. Why do I think so? Let us point out the things that we both want to take Islam as a religion, you say the right one I say the wrong one, out of common general discussion but you failed to comply again and again twisting the very truth.

:(( Then let me question you ………… unreliable Ibn Ishaq is let me show some of your points and then some of mine ))————————– Blatantly and straight forwardly I defy your claim of judgment. I see your judgments rely on internet based information rather than using your own self wit, judgment and understanding the true facts according to your self findings.
Lets have a look at the reason of authenticity

: Muhammad: – died 632 AD
: Ibn Ishaq:- Born 704, died 770 AD
: Ibn Hisham :- Died 833 AD
: Al-Dhahabi :- Born 1274, died 1348 AD
As I claimed there is a severe contradiction and confusion in implication of Shariah law understanding Quran and hadis. After the death of Muhammad within 200 years, Islamic radicals divided in 50 subgroups in understanding the Quranic verse and hadis and each assassinated each other claiming there’s one is true. Go through the history and culture of pre, post Islamic history and culture by different writers. Due to the contradiction with hadis and Quranic verse there is shahi and Sunan, authentic and unauthentic. Actually we are none to claim which one is unauthentic but We claim the nearest source is the most authentic. Many of the writers due to fatal contradiction they rejected quotes of different biography and hadis sources as it goes straightly against Quran. Either Quotes or hadis are true or Quran is true , they took Quran as the only truth rejecting all other hadis sources but the fact is the rejected are the real truth as it existed for 200 years from muhammad’s time to ishaqan only that is because if either Quran is untrue and self made by muhammad. Biography doesn’t lie, but Muhammd can, as it is self made the Quran.

By the expansion of time and advancement of humanity Islamic scholars came to understand that many hadis reference completely rejects the teachings of Quran and against humanity, this is an age old contradiction and confusion. We are not here to judge, we are here to understand why those hadis sources were rejected and what could be the best reason except if Quran is a self made book by Muhammad himself. As time goes by even now a days humanist pointing finger on the authenticity of Quran as a religion and surely hadis is the best reference to nullify Quran claiming to be a religion.
So the point is:
1. The reason of rejecting hadis sources as there was serious contradiction among hadis quotes abd the teachings of Quran and Muslim scholars understood it very well after the death of Muhammad still it took about 200 years to realize the fact and the more time goes the more they are realizing, that’s why being apostates having the death sentence Muslims are dared to leave Islam and denying as religion
2. The contradiction and confusion is an age old debate and still now a days islamic thinkers are trying to cover up the lacking of inhuman acts that is both hadis and Quran admits and trying to loosen up softening the tone of Quran and hadis meanings. But the thing is you cannot hide the truth.

: Ibn Ishaq as the earliest biographer of Muhammed, wrote his biography within 138 years after the death of Muhammad. He was born after 72 years of Muhammad’s death and if we count his accountability from mid age it might be after 30 years, he started writing taking accounts of peoples that are just 2nd generation after the Muhammad’s death. He collected all the resources abruptly that he found by his investigation from people to people that are may even first generation those who seen Muhammad by their life span.

Raj says:

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/green-living…

Raj says:

Jainism has given to the world two unique philosophies – Syadavad and Anekantavad.

From your viewpoint, you may be correct.
From my viewpoint, I may be correct.

This is how differences are sorted out.

Raj says:

yes, mr rajeev – the moderates are on sleep – they are conserving their energy. They are letting the fanatics run the show. The moderates are ready for backing up whenever they are required. Till then they watch the whole show sympathising with the fanatics.

The moderate Muslims are a bigger threat – you have rightly said.

Kavya says:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." — Lk 14:26

Mr.Sina, why do you believe Jesus Christ was good?

Amin Riaz says:

"Koran doesn't have contradictions it has takhsess(Specification) If any one wants to use It he can do It by calling it a contradiction. "

huh? THis shows you do not know what you are talking about… I think what you meant to say was Naskh – not Takhsis.

– – –

"just give me a good reason if koran is one and unchanged why its implications were so deviated from each others and why the understanding of it is different to different immam "

This is a long discussion – however it is well explained with the context of Usul Fiqh and even in its history.

A singular text can have many differing explanations.

hasan4463 says:

All right M.r Rastogy let's se about yourclaims 1. . Mr.Hasan are u a muslim? or a convert? I doubt, cause, It seems you have a lack of knowledge in Quran and Hadith authentication. You didnt tell anything whats your problem with Sirat e Ibn Ishaq. Please do clarify it. According Hadith ref I know that Sirat e Ibn Ishaq is far older than Sirat-e-Ibn Hisham, Ibn Hisham writes in his al-Sirat al-Nabawiyya quoting from the Imam Muhammad ibn Ishaq. So whoever uses its ref reason is it is far more authenticated than the later one, in a quote u also admitted it. The matter about Ishaq's authenticity is a.)its written directly in raw arabic language b. ) The first prophetic biographer of the Islamic world c.) Muslim scholars accept the accuracy from its earliest biographies( Sirat e Ibn Ishaq) and there is no other all others are later written. So it clearly states, u seem realy lack of knowledge about authenticity of hadith understanding the meaning of the word authentic and reason for omitting that defame Muhammed that you urself admitted.hummThen let me question you Have you ever actually been a muslim before?If you were You would have certainly knew that how unreliable Ibn Ishaq is let me show some of your points and then some of mine c.) Muslim scholars accept the accuracy from its earliest biographies( Sirat e Ibn Ishaq) and there is no other all others are later written. Yes they do by an extent but they also know the mistakes Ibn ishaq had done. for example “Adh-Dhahabi also listed some of the major scholars of Islam who refuted Ibn Is'haq's reliability in Hadith narrations. Imam Malim, for instance, called Ibn Is'haq a liar and Yahya Ibn Saeed al-Ansari, as well as al-Amash refuted one of Ibn Is'haq's narrations by saying that he lied.” Imam Ahmad also said that Ibn Ishaq did not care from whom he collected Hadiths. Imam Ibn Numair said that Ibn Ishaq reported false Hadiths from unknown narrators.” (Shaykh Jalal Abu Al Rub – The Prophet of Mercy – Chapter 2 – Page 10).Ibn Ishaq did not care from whom he collected Hadiths look at this point.Ishaq was not a kafir neither he defamed prophet rather he was like a man who collected anything he got,Without properly judging it.So Ibn ishaq can't be called a good source.So as u admitted Ibn Ishaq sources defamed Muhammad. No but they drew a wrong image as he didn't had the choice and time for judging which were real and which were unauthentic read the next part “False ascription was rife among the 8th century scholars (versus Bukhari who lived in the 9th century) and that in any case Ibn Ishaq and contemporaries were drawing on oral traditions.” ( Cook, M: Muhammad, Oxford 1983. pg. 65) It has been stated by a non muslim! then let's see again Even the famous Polemist and anti-Islam author Robert Spencer admits in his book The Truth about Muhammad , that “However, Ibn Ishaq's life of Muhammad is so unashamedly hagiographical that its accuracy is questionable.” (Spencer, Robert: The Truth about Muhammad, Regnery Publishers, 2006 pg. 25) Despite his negative opinion regarding Ibn IssHaaq, out of the 400 footnotes of Robert Spencer's book, 120 footnote refer to fabricated stories from Ibn Ishaq's book. Because Robert Spencer hates Islam so much that he is willing to present these stories as if they are true, even though he knows that their source is unreliable.Then got it? even Islamphobes consider him as an unauthentic writer whose writtings were edited and been made correct.,If you were a muslim you must have knew that After the civil war many rifts came across the islamic empie of caliphate. Many hidden Hippocratestried to make false allegations on prophet.Without proper ijtihad It was an era when the Islam was under going a brief period of caos so Ibn Ishaq tried his best to preserve the records but he couldn't.If you even doesn't know this I have nothing to say about you. Once you have quoted this most disgusting dishonor to a woman by becoming a sex slave to many???? where have you find this?It's a direct violation of quran where has been stated And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.24;33Does it seems that a woman who will be slave will be a sex slave to many ? If any where is stated like this tell me I know you won't be able to do it.After that you stated that 5. Still a truth is a truth;whatever or however you try to conceal in most elegant and better way. I quoted a hadith source from ur Ishaqs book about Safiyah. a. A Woman of 17 year old( under age by today's term) teenage b. Taken as Captive c. Her husband, father, relatives were killed d. Taken as booty e. Had sex on the same night, the day all her dear ones were killed g. Woman 17 year , Man 62 year, 45 years difference, a complete pedophiliac act of character who claims to be a prophet really. I would like to ask no excuses here either just ans right or wrong, just say if these points are true or false?Let me see your first point Had sex on the same night, the day all her dear ones were killedYou are absolutely wrong about that As stated According to Muhammad al-Bukhari, Muhammad stayed for three days between Khaybar and Medina, where he consummated his marriage to Safiyya.(After Three days )His companions wondered if she was to be considered a captive (Arabic: ma malakat aymanukum) or a wife. The former speculated that they would consider Safiyya as Muhammad's wife, and thus “Mothers of the Believers”, if Muhammad ordered her to veil herself, else she would be his slave-girl.Some modern scholars opine that Muhammad chose to marry Safiyya, the only surviving member of Banu Nadir's ruling family, as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe.Let’s see about this sect Some modern scholars opine that Muhammad chose to marry Safiyya, the only surviving member of Banu Nadir's ruling family, as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe.It’s not an entire truth so let’s see another account Marriage of Safiyah (widow of Kinanah) . -The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her free(Look at this sect), and he offered her the choice between remaining a Jewess and returning to her people or entering Islam and becoming his wife. “I choose God and His Messenger,” she said; and they were married at the first halt on the homeward march. -The marriage to Safiyyah(R) has a political significance as well, as it helps to reduce hostilities and cement alliances. – This significant act of marrying Safiyyah(R) was indeed a great honor for her, for this not only preserved her dignity, it also prevented her from becoming a slave (Sahih bukhari Volume 3, Book 33, Number 251: Narrated Ali bin Al-Husain)Then you may ask Her husband, father, relatives were killed. (Some citations are needed here)They were not murdered they were car causalities.(You may try to point out another point here okay then it’s for the next time) And You may ask why did she didn’t go and married prophet ? so then here is your answer. “It is related that she bore the mark of a bruise upon her eye; when the Prophet asked her tenderly the cause, she told him that, being yet Kenāna's bride, she saw in a dream as if the moon had fallen from the heavens into her lap; and that when she told it to Kenāna, he struck her violently, saying: 'What is this thy dream but that thou covetest the new king of the Ḥijāz, the Prophet, for thy husband!' The mark of the blow was the same which Moḥammad saw.” cf. Muir (1912) pp. 378-379So nither her marriage was a rape nor she was compelled .And if you tell these proofs as hoaxes then I must question why are you raising questions on these matters ?Then I must see your more points next d.Taken as booty your point is answered here The Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) told Safiyyah that he was prepared to set her freeThen let’s see the next point g.Woman 17 year , Man 62 year, 45 years difference, a complete pedophiliac act of character who claims to be a prophet really.Do you know the definition of pedophile correctly and properly? Definition of a Pedophile: “Pedophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult.” – Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998Look at this point(The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult.”)So if prophet was a pedophile(Nauzubillah) Then he would have never been able to have sex with any older age women in his life. And even after that safiyah(ra) was a willing candidate for marriage.Even at modern law the age of consent is 17 at many places. So neither it was a crime nor it was pedophilia. Your sixth claim was like this “Thus Islam Advocated Sex slaves, killing n dishonoring the women to forcefully marry or to become sex slaves , continuously doing coitus interrupts, most disgusting dishonor to a woman by becoming a sex slave to many. Those who had rejected the faith they were treated alike. Being a muslim u should feel shame tht islam is just only a pagan cult not even a religion.” 1st point Islam Advocated Sex slaves It’s not true at allindeed Islam condemns he who sells any freeman as slave. As prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) stated Narrated Abu Huraira:The Prophet said, “Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: -1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. -2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, -3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' “(One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price) See this is there any question on slavery of a free man next to your mind ? killing n dishonoring the women to forcefully marry or to become sex slaves. Let’s see if islam promotes it really In an authentic narration from Sunan Al Bayhaqi,Book no. 72 Chapter no. 84 Hadith no. 18001 Maktaba Darul Baz Makkah Mukarramah 1994 It is mentioned:Umar bin al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) sent Khalid bin al-Walid in an army, hence Khalid sent Dharar bin al-Auwzwar in a squadron and they invaded a district belonging to the tribe of Bani Asad. They then captured a pretty bride, Dharar liked her hence he asked his companions to grant her to him and they did so. He then had sexual intercourse with her, when he completed his mission he felt guilty, and went to Khalid and told him about what he did. Khalid said: 'I permit you and made it lawful to you.' He said: 'No not until you write a message to Umar'. (Then they sent a message to Umar) and Umar answered that he (Dharar) should be stoned. By the time Umar's message was delivered, Dharar was dead. (Khalid) said: 'Allah didn't want to disgrace Dharar'Even as an ex-muslim you don’t know this it’s rather unbelievable from you that you don’t know these simple things I assumed that you must have knew these without this I would have told you everything.If you want to know more I will certainly tell you

Syed Umar Rastogi says:

Mr. Hassan
Please carefully read every of the sentences and words and the total meaning,
I m looking here to share my views with a theist like u, who blindly believe, Koran is from God and Muhammad as its Prophet, I with complete utterness deny Muhammad as a prophet for his humanistic shrewd and cunning course of action like a normal people and thus by reject Quran from God.
A s we cannot discuss all the matters here, so its better to advance step by step. You don't have any problem with Quran but I do. So as the problem is mine; I select the subjects one by one and nullify one by one with ref and verses with clear logic using common sense and intelligence of wit and knowledge.
We both abide by: Do not bring off topics matter tht hv no valueor irrelevance relating the matter, in tht case, verify why and how it is related dont just write down and I can understand all. Dont give any vague ans. I hope its ok for u. Now plz go to my previous post and nullify with easy language and common serse , if require with verses but do not provide verses that i can place another verse that contradicts ur verses. So do not quote such verses, I hope you got my points very well.
Now we discuss on matters
1. Safiya hadith from your's Sirat e Hishami.
2. Muhammad's prophet hood in justification of Sex with Safiya, Sex slaves, letting Coitus interruptus letting jinah to his companions, which in many verses Muhammad himself given Aya
3. Justification to such female sex slaves killing their dear ones.
4. Quarrel, fighting, between understanding Quoran acoording to ijma and Kiyas between many sects at the golden age of Quran. Justificating the reason sect, and according to them, identifying the reason of sect and implication of Quranic verses.
5. Why Quran is a revelations? whats ur opinion to it? Give reasons according to ur ref and hadith ref.
I haven't got any response to my points written before, i would request you to ans the post according may be its a repeat or not clarify it, point it one by one. If I don't get any response relating my posts and you are not replying according to my written post or relating to it instead quoting irrelevance posts,I would assume you don't have answer to it and I accept ur admission to the cause.

Now lets see to your irrelevant post: fast and last time… reply to such post, later I wouldn't not comply to ur such posts..

1. "also marrying them doesnt comply them as free women.

Nobody is completely free in Islam, everybody is chained in responsibilities and order. As once said That man is born free but everywhere he is in chains. " —- Its an usual ans, we dont need such ans to clarify the marriage duty, any1 marrying must comply an no children born in this wrld hv borne free. Twisted Ans.. again.

2. "You will certainly tell that islam considers women slaves" —- So u do agree why it is certain either u wouldn't write it down. plz dont twist here again tht u didnt wanted to let me understand such, We do comprehend what u tried to say. Thnks for agreeing for sex slaves in Islam.

3. "By hearing this you may tell that prophet himself hurt so many of jews and christians
but I have to tell you one thing didn't they plotted against him so that they could take Medina ?
………………………….and Abdullah ibn Ubai plotted against prophet""

—————————-These all are apparent from my point of view. Hitler attacked other european countries to establish his ideals of fascism, according to hitler's point of view hir written book "Mainkampf" Hitlers is obviously right and justified to all the Germans and again those countries who were against Hitler's Fascism, Hitler's action is not justified and they tried to protect themselves and the Allied forces planned, attacked, ruin, plotted killings to Hitler to stop his invasion. So every1 has its own view Allied had theirs, and Nazis had theirs. As Hitler failed to establish his fascism history termed him as oppressor and Allied forces were liberator, As like the many Iraqis, USA was a liberator and to the opposition were oppressor. These are apparent factors that may create dilemma or confusions. The most best thing is to let aside these factors, let us be a neutral expectator and justify the factors whether Nazis were right or Allied forces were right? So better not pose such comments that cannot let aside and let being a neutral point of view, so that the outcome result is perfect ok? Lets we are 2 ppl will decide to take a relligion but we dnt know abt, say we are discussing things so that ur comments arent biased, cause biased comments will lead to nothing but encircling the same point sticking to it. I hope you understood very well my point here.

hasan4463 says:

6 Ahmadiyya ألأحمديّة 6.1 Ahmadiyya Muslim Community 6.2 Lahore Ahmadiyya Movemen ask anybody without these three all of them are quite good muslims and if somebody wants to paint them it's politics and racism of nationality nothing else.Your next questions are repetitions I have tried to answer them. Look at other comments.

hasan4463 says:

Islam and Koran as a pagan cult is already defamed by Muslim extremist like u, they try to define themselves first as what u wrote in bracket later they come out of the falsehoods turning to be a Jihadist. As a muslim u should also know that sirat-e-ibn hisham is not at all 100% authenticated by the Muslim scholars, u even didnt wrote abt what points u would like to quote, cause quoting from Sirat can be nullified by the other authenticated hadith books. Why are u trying to pick sirat-e-ibn hisham instead of so many other more authenticated biography of Muhammad. Though It is one of the most earliest biography of Muhammad but u also know that hisham himself omitted many of the writtings tht could disgrace muhammad I have told it as M.r Sinaconstantly uses sirate ibn ishaq to defame our prophe, so it was my opinion that many sira books don't tell such Manipulated things which were produced after the 150 years of prophets death.So Ibn hisam was both an early source and a quite better source than Ibn Ishaq(Though it was created from Ibn ishaq's war diaries of prophet) it was much much more elegant and a better piece of work,Which can solve many problems of the Islamphobes. But not all also marrying them doesnt comply them as free women. Nobody is completely free in Islam, everybody is chained in responsibilities and order. As once said That man is born free but everywhere he is in chains. Brother please don't read missionary sites and their references they may claim to have the actual record but they don't. Most of their accounts are from these manipulated sources.So please don't do that. You will certainly tell that islam considers women slaves ,dogs etc etc then I wil just tell you to read them carefully (may be you have done it but don't keep haterd when you read it I myself don't hate you we are not taught to hate anyone beside a bad man who hurts other without reason)By hearing this you may tell that prophet himself hurt so many of jews and christians but I have to tell you one thing didn't they plotted against him so that they could take Medina ? Didn't they tried to kill Prohet during tobuk or before in Medina ? Didn't they elected young men to kill him befeore hijrat ? Did they not tried to ruin us ? Did Utba, kab bin ashraf,Rifa bin sattar and Abdullah ibn Ubai plotted against prophet ? Then may be you will call us evil and so we needed to be destroyed so they did this then ask yourself who is propagating hate me or you ?

Syed Umar Rastogi says:

From ur own sirat-e-ibn hisham sources
•Sirat e Rasulullah, Ibn Hisham, page 766 “Safiyah was captured in the Khaibar raid and was claimed by the apostle as his share of booty.. She was then seventeen. She was groomed and made-up for the Prophet by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik. They spent the night there. In the early dawn, the Prophet suspected some movement near the tent) . He went out to enquire and saw Abu Ayyub.. He asked him what he was doing near his tent. He replied: “I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, and till recently she was an unbeliever. I was really afraid for you on her account and was guarding you.” The Prophet prayed for Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (Ibn Hisham, p. 766)
The description of the steamy all night action between the 62 year old Prophet and teenage Safia left the niqabi woman very depressed and the male audience very horny. Imam himself got excited and started thinking about the possibility of killing an infidel and raping his wife, who knows Allah could reward him with paradaise for following in the footsteps of his most beloved apostle..
Clearly shows Islam advocated by Muslam being a
1. Rapist
2. Brought dishonor to female war captives and sure his God Allah allowed him to do such things
3. Muhammad also was n expert of Coitus interrupts
4. Forcing women to marry and committed to his cult islam or being used as concubines or prostitutes by coitus interrupts by many muslim warriors.

These things are more than enough to credit the nullify of Islam as a religion.

Another thins is u said about good reason, depends on his definition of good reason, so u cannot exactly tell, what were they. what is good reaso for me may be not for u. Muhammad's good reason to wage war against to establish his cult, killing opponents mercilessly, having sex with their wives and sisters and relatives if these are ur good reason we dnt hv any interest or to come in further disclosure.

Another thing is
1. Quoran and its all verses are revelations only.- this means verses were given when an incident took place, not before the incident , proof it if its not. The biggest proof of revelation is u need hadith and tfsirs to understand the verses, but tht could be done even if verses were came down at frst than the things were happened according to but it didnt, So whats ur point abt this? U cant go even against koran as its completely a revelation.
2. Koran is also a full contradiction and confusions, Muslims themselves fought against each other each claiming their understanding and implications were right, after the muhammad death at the golden age of islam within 200 years 50 subgroups like kharejis, assasins, shiaties, sunnis,hanafi, shalafi etc and many more killed each other. If koran is nt contradictions why there are so misunderstandings and killing muslims,.Even this things were continued still today.

Following the different immamah It clearly states tht how well this pagal cult is divided by as there are acoording to sharia law and its execution, 5 schools were founded including Shia ones,

Admin says:

Can moderators please check this issue out?

Jonathan harrell

Also please check out spam and filters.

Jens DK says:

I am lost.
What do this fella Mr. Farzad write.
I am danish, and I write in a foreign language, can't mr. Farzad please do the same?
Else I am afraid, we cant communicate.
Mr. Farzad? Please and all your posts. Please.

hasan4463 says:

Alright I have read some part of your book, and after that I have come here,M.r Sina okay I will try to response to your claims in that book that my prophet was an ill person and needed projak.You have made allegations that from the first day of his life prophet didn't receive love at all so he eventually became schizophrenic all right? okay let's take to this part. If we study prophets sir'a we can get all these phenomena together all right ?

but please say just one simple thing at first aren't these phenomena common all together in the religious scriptures ?

it's my first comment (and a very easy one too ) answer this and I guarantee you I will try to show my logic in this aspect

let's see your article in here

(9:23) states that the believers should not take for friends and protectors (awlia) their fathers and brothers if they love Infidelity above Islam

and let's see the sahih International

O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Muhsin khan

O you who believe! Take not for Auliya' (supporters and helpers) your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.).

Pickthall
O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.

Yusuf Ali
O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

Dr. Ghali
O you who have believed, do not take to yourselves your fathers and your brethren to be (your) patrons, in case they show love to disbelief (rather) than belief. And whoever of you patronizes them, then, those are they (who) are the unjust

allright from the above section we can get an indication that it's about 'warrior code' or what a warrior shall do in the situation of battle.

Maybe it's not as clear as it sounds but I think you will try to put our Islam and the golden rule in front of each other stating that a Muslim can't understand what is unilaterally good as they follow Muhammad(Pbuh)

so the question remains the same is n't it ?

alright I will read your entire book and then I will talk to you If you want to talk to me.

hasan4463 says:

Ali sina you are constantly using circular logic t defame Islam. if it's to be carefully read you can obviously get a clear picture of the prophet.You have never mention anything from Sirate ibn HIsham, or similar books. Every time you have tried to accuse the prophet you have given the same examples which many of them are taken from the orientalists who have hated islam from the first day they have began searching for it. Prophet did never asked for anybody to be killed without any good reason you can't blame any man for just doing a political effort for people.Thus you have read 2:62,5:69 and 3:114or 3:113 verses of quran you have also read the good sayings of quran towards the people of the book you haven't read the sura ankabut where the ahl-kitab has been respected as our brother? If we were so evil why we didn't destroyed the west when we had the power? okay you may say that we didn't follow Islam so strictly then,but at the same time you blame us for destroying the enlightenment in Iran and many other regions in your article you have said

Islam is the only doctrine that calls upon its believers to do evil to others for the simple fact that they are not believers.

I laughed when I heard it,You have stated the verse of the sword on the occasion 9:5 but you as a clever man haven't recited the full paragraph or the chapter.Mr Sina how is that possible that a strong critique like you didn't know the basic rules for implementing Quran or how to use it's meaning ?

does that mean you are deceiving people? why? what is the reason you want to destroy us ?

So that we may no longer be united? so the Americans can torture us as much as they want? how can 99.99% of the muslims of the world be peaceful even after reading the quran and It's meaning? If it's so violent without the cause? You are trading the same logics that has been used for 1000 years to defame us yet we still survive.You can't destroy us because 99% of the muslims don't preach hate like you and we shall survive no matter what happens.

(Please don't level me an extremist after hearing this I am very sad for you to condemn our prophet) That's all

AATL says:

Oh please stop talking rubbish. all your quotes form the quraan is out of context and misleading. If this religion was soo bad, how is it the fastest growing religion in the world? your half-truths and full lies are fooling nobody. if everyone is good by nature, how is it you are spitting so much evil, disguised as half-truths. You trying to make this religion as a cult, but the religions wants people to spend on the poor, and the needy. all cults keep teh money for themselves and their leaders. The prophet, never kept it for himself. each of your so called verses are 'interpreted' by you to mean something very different that what they actually mean. I can defy each one. why dont you have a real live debate with an actual scholar and he will prove your 'interpretations' are one sided, bias and all lies.

Soovey says:

Note the date of this.

I wonder if this man were still alive whether he would be so fulsome in praise of such a malignant belief system?

Soovey says:

"A lot of love" for whom? Only for fellow Muslims.

You and your kind make hell on earth, so I don't believe in hell in the hereafter. If there is a heaven, then it will surely be Muslim-free or have ex-Muslims in it who have seen the error of their ways.

Finally, why do you think that Muslim countries are the most backward in the world? They are not taught to think, reason, debate or learn by enquiry. They are stuffed full of garbled nonsense fed to them from their earliest years, and taught hatred and to hold grudges. How does such a person become curious about the world of science, about others in the world, about music and its effects on the psyche and to love learning for its own sake and to contribute to the betterment of mankind, rather than as a route to staying out of hell fire? Without curiosity and a spirit of enquiry and questioning, Muslims are doomed forever in this life to be barbarians who believe that camel's urine can cure cancer because their prophet drank it (and yet Saudi princes come to the West to be treated for cancer and other serious illness) and never to advance.

You are a superstitious, credulous fool.

Babs says:

Is it closed because you lost the argument Uzoozy?

You certainly had problems when you were young if you were born into Islam and if you chose to follow it later on that's proof positive that you must be mentally disordered.

You don't get to choose when a topic is or isn't closed. The rest of us do.

DPhysicist says:

Any one having any question about Islamic reality… then they should refer to the laws of Saudi Arabia. It answers many curiosities…

mjazz says:

Reposted from a comment above:
"No one can stop the Internet and the truth about Islam is spreading like wild fire. Islam’s biggest enemy is truth and the days of Islam are numbered."
This is so true. People under the rule of Islam now can see people dancing without veils, going to clubs, almost any kind of activity where men and women are free to talk and exchange ideas. They know that if they try to live free they will be killed. There is nothing attractive about Islam, only the deluded see any benefit there. It will be relegated to the dustbin of history when people are free to be able to leave it.

Skorpio says:

Satan tempted Jesus in the desert offering Him ALL the richness and pleasures of the world as long as Jesus worship him, this is basically the same thing what all Islamic monarchs and leaders get from worshiping the devil (Islam/Mohammed): possessing ALL their countries' wealth and natural resources(oil), having hundreds of concubines and all the sexual pleasures, absolute power over civil, military and religious organizations, the power to free or incarcerate anyone without questioning and always having the last word on any decision, no wonder they are COMPELLED to impose, extend -no matter the cost- their satanic Islamic religion otherwise Satan will take away their privileges.

severus snape says:

happy? r u actually happy??????? with ur faith????????

wonder why u guys are considered terrorists!!!!!!!!

TeaTotal says:

Don't ask me do what you need. You have to do it for yourself.
You are probably reading some passage from some fictional novel .

I am happy. Take care.

TeaTotal says:

Knew / see is the same insight . Just don't be hazy in making conclusions look at below in comments.

Naruq says:

Strange…you said "knew the truth" now you say "see the truth"…you imagine that you can I suppose.

You only see your own ego…not even close…wake up!

Dragoste7 says:

Signed 🙂

Naruq says:

Islam and the Quran are delusion for humanity. A nightmarish delusion.

You didn't address what I said at all…instead you resorted to ad hominem.

Predictable.

Your lack of argument confirms my own.

Congratulations, you are finally "revealing" the truth…without knowing it of course.

Amani says:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Iran-Dont-Kill-N…

Youcef Nadarkhani is an Iranian pastor who has been sentenced to death for being a Christian!!!! Please sign the petition!!

Fatima says:

True there is a large crowd who don't know about FFI in Southern Africa. I feel that I am the only person knowing about this site and the only person who has aquired so much knowlege through this site.When I do mention about it, people just don't seem interested. I believe that people here are happy to be muslims and are becoming more "holy". More and more people are starting to go the Hijab route because every day they get brain washed by Mufti Menk.

TeaTotal says:

Folks are advised to conclude after wider analysis.

Platform 1 : Scriptures
Platform 2 : History
Platform 3 : Belief
Platform 4 : Morality
Platform 5 : Psychology

More platforms are available on request.
Any conclusion from one platform intersecting conclusion from other platform for the same will be invalid.

Any previous conclusion made will be rejected.

Wehtiko says:

The Golden Rule, The Law of Reciprocity, The Wiccan Rede, or whatever it might be known as is the solid foundation. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you should be somebodies punching bag. Sure Jesus says to "Turn the other cheek." but as my father used to point out, "Remember that you only have two cheeks."

WeHaveBrains says:

Uzoozy we're waiting enlighten us

فرزاد says:

Mr.Sina

Why you eliminate translate of my last answer and your respond to it? Why you closed the command box? Why you changed the title of debate?

Unfortunately I just saved your answer and didn’t save the translation of my last answer to you please return it again.

Here is your last answer and my respond to it.

Mr. Farzad,

Is this all you can say? You start with a few ad hominem comments and end your article by saying I don’t understand logic. You also say that I will die one day and my life will be wasted. How do you want me to respond to these? Shall I remind you that in my view you are the one whose life is a waste? What is the point of these talks? We are here to prove our points of view.

You say Allah has promised to protect his religion. In that case why did you want to debate with me? Din’t you come to prove me wrong? You couldn’t and now leave it to Allah?. Let me tell you that Allah is not god. He is the figment of Muhammad’s imagination. The reason Islam has survived so far is because Muslims silenced and killed any person who criticized it. But things have changed. No one can stop the Internet and the truth about Islam is spreading like wild fire. Islam’s biggest enemy is truth and the days of Islam are numbered.

You say if man’s faculties are acquired through evolution then he cannot be superior to animals because he has not worked for them. Who said man is superior to other creatures? We are smarter. Of course we ascribe more value for our selves than we do to other animals. I doubt animals share this opinion. This argument about superiority and inferiority is absurd. We are humans and have to live like humans. Animals should live like animals. The problem arises when some people live like animals. Raiding, raping, plundering, abusing, beating and imprisoning others is not human behavior. That is my problem with Islam. Muslims devalue humans and treat them like animals and in the process they act like animals.

You say, “When I say the morality of man that is rooted in nature has no value it does not mean that necessarily man is immoral and his essence is satanic.” Didn’t you say without religion there is nothing to stop man to raise and eat his own kind? You obviously don’t think much of humans. Now you try to backpedal. But if you agree that man’s dignity is intrinsic then what was all that talk about human dignity must come from out of nature?

You justify beating, imprisoning, raping and killing and think all that is divine because they are sanctioned by your religion and practiced by your prophet. What if your belief is a lie? Shouldn’t you investigate the claim of Muhammad before committing all these crimes?

For your information, I don’t subscribe to liberalism. Liberalism is another sickness of mind barely better than Islam. I am a free man, a rational being and I value my independence of thought and my individualism. I don’t subscribe to any ideology. I am a prophet to my own self, not a follower of any school of thought.

Thank you for this debate. This was a subject I had not discussed before and I am happy I did. I think we managed to shed light on many important issues such as what Muslims think about themselves and others as human beings.

Wish you the best

جناب سینا

بحث کردن با کسی که از منطق چیزی نمی داند مانند بحث کردن با کودک دوساله است بر سر اثبات اینکه بستنی برای مریضی او خوب نیست.

هدف اصلی من از بحث با شما این بود که در مرحله اول به خودتان و در مرحله بعد به خوانندگان ثابت کنم که شما چیزی از منطق نمی دانید و شما اعتراف کردید که منطق نخوانده اید.

تمام ادعاهای شما تراوشات ذهنی بیماری حراف و یاوه گوست که با تکرار مکرر این کلمات:

Raiding, raping, plundering, abusing, beating and imprisoning others

به ارگاسم فکری می رسد و چنان به این استمنای فکری معتاد شده که گاه در یک نوشته کوتاه مانند این نوشته آخر با یک مرتبه تکرار ارضاء نشده، دوباره آن را تکرار می کند.

اگر من در جایی کوتاه آمده و از زاویه دید یک منکر خدا انسان را بررسی می کنم برای این است که به کودکان دبستانی که از منطق چیزی نمی دانند واقعیت وجودی انسان را بفهمانم و الا طبیعتی که این همه هنرمند است که قادر است موجودی با این همه قابلیت بسازد چرا تنها به همین یک مورد بسنده کرده است چه چیزی مانع شده از اینکه قدرت خود را در راه بزرگتر کردن مغز سایر حیوانات از دست بدهد؟ چه اتفاقی افتاده که بنابر نظر بعضی از بزرگان علم تکامل، تکامل در زمان ما متوقف شده؟ اصلا در آن چند میلیارد و چند میلیون سال چه غلطی می کرده که قابلیت او در این چهار یا چهل هزار سال اخیر در ساختن انسان متمدن بروز کرده است؟ شما خوب می دانید که این موضوع یکی از بزرگترین معماها و مجهولات علم روز است.

موضع من به عنوان یک مسلمان کاملا محکم و پا برجاست من معتقدم که درک خوبی و بدی توسط خداوند در وجود انسان نهاده شده است:

وَ نَفْسٍ وَ مَا سَوَّئهَا، فَأَلهَْمَهَا فجُُورَهَا وَ تَقْوَئهَا، قَدْ أَفْلَحَ مَن زَكَّئهَا، وَ قَدْ خَابَ مَن دَسَّئهَا

و قسم به جان آدمى و آن كس كه آن را (آفريده و) منظّم ساخته، سپس فجور و تقوا (شرّ و خيرش) را به او الهام كرده است، كه هر كس نفس خود را پاك و تزكيه كرده، رستگار شده

و آن كس كه نفس خويش را با معصيت و گناه آلوده ساخته، نوميد و محروم گشته است!

بدون وجود خدا انسان تنهای حیوانی از حیوانات جنگل است منتها حیوانی که در این چند ثانیه آخر عمر خود (نسبت به وجود حیات چند میلیارد ساله روی زمین) یاد گرفته کمتر وحشی باشد تا در آسایش بیشتری زندگی کند.

Amani says:

As a side note, why are you so scared of america and non-muslims, Uzoozy? Who filled your head with weird thoughts like "In america fathers rape their kids"? Is that why you're so scared of non-muslims? because you believe this? People are people, religion has nothing to do with it. You can be muslim and still rape your kid. Not all muslims have that "peace" you talk about.

Uzoozy says:

Thanks for yor email.I do not care about Ali Sina who cares, another usless person.We need to spread peace and harmony in the world.Islam is an religion as stated by many countries including Pres. Obama, LFDS is a cult plenty of sex with small children.Islam is a good and the best of all the religions.

SorrowSnake says:

The fact that an opinion is widely held does not automatically make it true. The whole world can convert to Islam tomorrow this does not mean Muhammad really was a prophet. At one point the whole of mankind used to believe the earth was flat and that did not turn out to be true. Bertrand Russell said "a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. ”

Uzoozy says:

You are in a very confused state of mind, having left Islam and tryingto justify your apparent move to …..The people that convert to Islam are priests and educated persons whohave sorted ouit the world and found Islam to be the most compatable.Your singer Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) became Muslim, like him most ofthe people like to remain muslims.Our job in the world is to give the message and Allah does the rest,thats what people are talking about.Yes after one night stands they realize that they need to talk toAllah directly and they do and get the blessings of peace andtranquility.For other Allah veils them so that they cannot see or hear.Islam and Sharia is Allahs guidance to us , if you do not follow youare the looser.In every religion there is reward and punishment Islam is no different.Islam teaches peace and tolerance where the other notions came from Ido not know.Hope Allah turns these people to do good deeds. Allah does not changepeople unless they change what is inside them.Its the rave these days to blame Islam.You must have read the Quran and am sure you are from Iran where theyhave Allah in their hearts only.Take care

Uzoozy says:

You are just an ignorant person.If you play beethoven to a donkey he just bays.Most muslims love life and Allah and the prophet.When its time to go you go, nothing to it.There is heaven and hell like mentioned the donkey.Islam and Quran is the salvation for humanity.

Naruq says:

Muslims are always afraid of death, that is why they remain muslims. They are also afraid of life because they are muslims. Everything is deferred to Jannat…they cannot risk the Hell described in the Quran, which is vividly real as a consequence to them, they are held in a bind, in trance to it's terror. This is fear. They yearn for paradise, where their earthly desires will all be satisfied…this is escape from fear. The muslim is easily revealed and stands naked before the enquiring mind.

maghrebchristians says:

This is a good post in what, todayin Tunisia there is a conflict with the Islamic party with the people who want freedom. Read more about this article.
http://www.maghrebchristians.com/2012/03/07/marzo…

Youssef

Amani says:

To be fair, those horrors (rape, incest) don't only happen in America. They happen everywhere in the world. But in Arabian countries, when a girl is captured for sex, if there weren't 4 witnesses while she was being raped, the law says she's a liar.
But it doesn't mean it's not happening!

Come on, be serious. I'm not attacking the God you believe in, I'm attacking the laws you believe in…

Uzoozy says:

A snake in the grass is poisonous.

Uzoozy says:

Muslims are never ever afraid of death, Muslims pray to die early tocommit less sin.You are talking from your a……

enlightened25 says:

"what
does that tell you." That women are deficient in intelligence.

SorrowSnake says:

'Women and men have same intelligence IQ.'

Muhammad disagrees.
Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Chapter 4 verse 34 of the Quran gives permission to men to beat their wives.

Women also inherit less than men

Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females.  4.11

'Women are the most important member of the Islamic household.'

This is nonsense.
Muhammad went as far as to say women should prostrate in front of their husbands: 
Bukhari Book 11, Number 2135:
Narrated Qays ibn Sa'd:

“If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah.”  

Qur'an (2:223) – "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will…"

The following Hadith also makes it clear that women are created for men and for their satisfaction.

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband)."

Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 33:
Narrated Usama bin Zaid:

The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

Clearly Islam does not have a very high opinion of women. http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/muhamma…

SorrowSnake says:

Uzoozy, you still have not answered my question. Do you believe woman are deficient in intelligence and their testimony should be worth half of a man's as Muhammad did?

Uzoozy says:

There are many schools of thoughts one of them places it at 22 yrs old.One thing is for sure Aisha(pbuh) had reached pubity when she was married.In America they just capture girls have sex and have kids in their houses.In Belgium father and daughter has kids , this is the moral value of today.Come to this world and see how many immoral things are taking place

TeaTotal says:

Innovations in worldly matters, such as science, medicine and technology are generally acceptable and encouraged, bid‘ah within the religion is generally considered a sin. (.)

We are dealing you people where you stuck with modern life physio-psychological problems like mal-adaptive behaviors.

WeHaveBrains says:

Now you admit your prophet had sex with child Aisha you two faced Muslim

WeHaveBrains says:

He’s bringing up 1430 yrs old IMMORAL stuff (which is called studying history) but you're believing in these stuff. Wonder how’s the stupidest?

It’s never about time, Immoral is immoral at any era.

'Your prophet could not have sex, so you are jealous.'

1- Jesus is not a prophet, he is God.
2- Jesus whether you believe in him or not was more miraculous than Mo (even in Quran) and has perfect teachings. You can never find a fault in him or his teachings.
3- Your prophet MO deceived everyone so he can have power and more sex. Oh yeah I’m jealous, he’s so great. I’m thinking of living like he did, who cares if i cause so much pain to others, who cares if I end up in jail in this life and in hell after it, I’ll get power supported by criminals, coward followers like you and lots and lots of sex.

Amani says:

At least Christians don't tell kids who were raped by priests that it is something "divine" because priests are "men of God"…

Amani says:

If God asks me to give my 9 year old daughter to a man, no matter how sexy or rich or blessed he is, then it would mean that I'm wiser than God.
God didn't allow those horrors to happen. Weak fanatic parents did.

TeaTotal says:

Diseases discovered

Some of the people can't digest facts about ISLAM and starts abusing this is know as VERBAL DIARRHEA

Some of the people repeat same and same issues over and over this is know as MENTAL ECZEMA

Some unfortunate people are denying everything about ISLAM this is CANCER

We are prescribing essential medicines and still our research department is busy in experimenting new medicines .

All patients are requested to have patience GOOD LUCK

TeaTotal says:

Ali Sina is crooked minded. Believe good guys that will give you peace not hatred

knowTheEnemy says:

I watched that video, and I also read the article linked to by sorrowSnake, and it is crystal clear that the video is nothing but Taqiyya. In the article Ali said, "Muslims are not ashamed of the fact that their prophet was a pedophile, but embarrassed for everyone knowing it ".
Your claim has long been demolished buddy, and my disease, Islamoloathia has worsened.

@Mossad666 says:

hating and cursing seems easy rather than facing the truth..u perhaps not lost any dear ones, but i had, they were killed by islamists..i always wondered, why do u call us kafir, what my friends did to u, as they were blown up? ur religion instead of treating us with human treated with as ur self proclaimed enemy..if u respect, u will get the same, now whole world is erupting against muslim, what is ur view about that? we are just a small bunch of people here, there is a large bunch who havent even heard about FFI, oppressed by the jihad (sic)

SorrowSnake says:

The claims that your video brings up have been refuted a 100 times. Please read this article written by Ali Sina. http://alisina.org/aisha-the-child-bride-of-muham…

TeaTotal says:

Check this out
[youtube v7Ki6Tv9Vgg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7Ki6Tv9Vgg youtube]

TeaTotal says:

BTW you are sikh right !
Good luck learner(sikh).

Uzoozy says:

It is absoluteley immoral to have sex with kids.In the case of Aisha(pbuh) marriage was devine.Talk present days where a lot of immoral things are happening.

knowTheEnemy says:

Is that really all you can respond to my question. Let's try again….. I'll narrow the question down…..

In your opinion, Is sleeping with a 9 yr old girl a crime or not?

TeaTotal says:

Apply your medicine on yourself. TDS for 15 days

TeaTotal says:

You are suffering from mental eczema and don't have option to rub it again and again !

@Mossad666 says:

ha ha.. this comment was expected from a person of the cult..

Uzoozy says:

I sincerly hope that all crimes go away and we live in an Utopion world.

WeHaveBrains says:

we Apply this medicine on ourselves by first admitting what was done wrong then trying to fix it.

You Islam, the house of rape and sex slaves, do not admit even these charges (which are more than USA and EU combined) then how do you want to fix it.

oh righ…….. you don't want to fix it… you think it's you're right to do that

وداوني بالتي كانت هي الداء

TeaTotal says:

"Before you go crazy accusing others, take a look at your home"

Apply your medicine on yourself.

WeHaveBrains says:

Where are you Uzoozy? You ran to spread your poison elsewhere?

You better run muslims
TIME TO ANSWER TO THE TRUTH

WeHaveBrains says:

USA keep record of crimes.

In KSA, Morocco, Egypt, Syria… Records of rape are not kept and if they are numbers won't fit in your comment.

Before you go crazy accusing others, take a look at your home

WeHaveBrains says:

Did you complain when you "wasted your seeds"(being polite) when you where getting that kind of information?

Amani says:

So does the rape of millions of children in America make it any less horrific for a 50 year old man to marry a 6 year old?

Uzoozy says:

There is nothing to run away from.I believe what happened to Aisha(pbuh) happened 1430 yrs ago. I knowthough studying this subject that Aisha (pbuh)was 22 yrs old.Now in America 15% of school kids are being molested/raped by teachers.One rape every 7-17 seconds or around 12,000 rapes take place every day.In USA there was child molestation by priests contless kids have beendamaged for life.(may Allah bless them all) , todays news in Irelandthousand of innocent kids have been sodomised for many generations.One priest had sex with kids twice a month for 25 yrs.One priest is alleged to have molested over 1000 kids.LIfe is turning widest in the most unexpected places.Its frightening to even think about it.And you think 1430 yrs was bad.

Uzoozy says:

Not true.The millions of children you refer to are raped in America, averageis that 15 percent of all school kids get molested during their schooldays.There is an rape every 7 to 15 seconds in USA.Where is the morality we all talk about.We are so concerned what happened 1432 yrs ago and cannot looks thingsthat are happening around us.

Uzoozy says:

This subject is closed, looks likle you had some problems when you were young.God bless you.

SorrowSnake says:

Do you also also believe that woman are deficient in intelligence and their testimony should be worth half of a man's as Muhammad did?

Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Uzoozy says:

Our prophet was directed by Allah to act the way he did.At 22 they had consumated the marriage.She was at Prophet Muhammeds(pbum) house so what.The Lord works in mysterious ways afer that The mother of allmuslims(Aisha PBUH) led the muslim world for a very longtime, longafter all the other significant ones had died.Its amazing how a thing like this becomes a major issue ,Get a life and move on.

SorrowSnake says:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated ‘Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

This hadeeth is narrated by Aisha herself and she clearly states that she was six when Muhammad married her and the marriage was consummated when she was 9.

TeaTotal says:

Put search button on your head if you don't know how to use information.

Parviz says:

Farzad

The golden rule is here to stay, Muslim indignation not withstanding. As far as your critic of Ali Sina using a different discussion of yours to "attack" you on the G.R. discussion. I am not sure what you meant? do you not stand by your words regarding felicity?. You didn't make it clear if you do or don't.But if you don't stand by your own words, then congrats ! you are thinking like your PedMo. you deserve the honorary(pbuh) just like PedoMo deserves it!, i.e. Farzad (pbuh).

Dragoste7 says:

BTW i am J S

GodGuardsIsrael says:

do you watch porn then? you know so much..wow..why not take your wuduk and do your prayers for forgiveness of sin

TeaTotal says:

Thousands of pornographic content is available featuring Padres and nuns. And all culprits involved are Christians. Do any one need certificate of modesty from these low lives?!

J S says:

I read it and in Arabic (which i understand).

your holiest lady is Jewish-christian. how Funny, couldn't you find a Muslimah who gets to be the holiest in Quaran?

just because there's a chapter dedicated to Mary doesn't take away chapters of discrimination against women. There's no need to repeat How Quran an Mo make women a second class citizens because it's crystal clear how and this subject been discussed million times already.

I took time to read and understand Quaran in the holy language Arabic, did you take time to read and understand the bible in any language at all?

J S says:

my replies are not showing and i'm not using bad language :s

El Padrino says:

Uzoozy

You sound like a zakir naik cheerleader.
Perhaps you can show us passages from the hadith where muhammad actually put the golden rule into practice.

SorrowSnake says:

Muhammad said women are deficient in intelligence and their testimony is worth half of man's.

Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

"O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

J S says:

I have read it and in Arabic too. (surprise, yes i'm fluent in Arabic)

The Verses about how Mary conceived are disgusting in the Quran and show the twisted sexual thoughts of Mohammed.

Women are not equal to men in Quran. when 1 marries 4, that's not equality, that's adultery.

J S says:

Uzoozy I proved you wrong and i'm just a girl.

aren't girls less intelligent?

فرزاد says:

جناب سینا

فعلا ترجیح می دهم وارد این بحث نشوم و در همان بحث سابق تکلیف این قانون طلایی را روشن کنم

در ضمن این عادلانه نیست که از مقدمات بحثی که هنوز تمام نشده برای اثبات مدعای خود در بحث دیگر استفاده کنید

در ضمن به نظر می رسد بیشتر خوانندگان سایت نیز با من در مورد قانون طلایی هم نظر هستند.

Uzoozy says:

AnsweinAbrabham,
You are so ignorant . Muslims are people with a lot of love, thats why we have so many kids.
Muslims are great people(except a few ). Who pray to God and have direct blessings from Him.

Who care if you go to heaven or hell, you are just a speck of sand in the desert with an ignorant mind.

By the time you finish understanding the Torah, old and new testements , gospels and all the 70 volumes of the bible you will turn out to be the most confused person in the world.
Best of luck

J S says:

continued (explaining Numbers 31:17-18):

1 Kings 19:11-12
{{{{{{{{{{{The LORD said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by.”
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. }}}}}}}}}}}}}}

God came in a GENTLE WHISPER proving that he is love and all the violence done in his name came from men not him and that’s what he’s trying to teach his prophets and people —> the LORD did not command Moses to kill but Moses killed anyway.

The pedophilic Biblical verses, the killing, the slaves, wars, conquest, hate, homosexuality… all in the Old Testament.

In the Old Testament, the Jews refer to the sick as being punished by god but when Jesus came he told them that GOD did not give sickness and that was not a punishment from GOD. When he came he corrected what they misunderstood from god's words

That’s why the Old Testament is mostly a ancient Jew point of view (representing what they thought was right at the time) and full of their misunderstanding to God. All that happened whether good or bad, right or wrong, from men or from god, they all referred it to god and documented it.

So when you read the OLD Testament you must do it while understanding the history of authors and the people back then in order to identify the word of God from the claims of men in the name of God (whether these men were prophets or not).

@AnswerinAbraham says:

Muslims have the option of repeating the behavior of Mohammed in ANY stage of his life. This includes the stage where Muslims tolerate oppression and are told to not forbid kindness to those who showed them haste. Ultimately this kind of behavior is compulsory if they live in non-majority Muslim countries. The forcing the non-believers to make way for Muslims on the streets doesn't come until much later. We begin with fake smiling first.

Truth Finder says:

Even when you strictly implement Golden Rule for majority It overrule Golden Rule itself.

FYI I have never seen any psychosomatic symptoms in A donkey so fella claim to understand anything is still under trial.

Observer says:

I think very few people are practicing the Golden Rule, other than some religious people who are God-fearing. Normally the strong will dominate the weak and the majority will bully the minority. In this dog-eat-dog world there are plenty of cheats, rapists, murderers, thieves and other evil doers. To kill for sake of a religion is one of the most evil acts.

TeaTotal says:

What make you to feel like a bird ?! behave human !!!

Timmy Lee says:

You have a point. In the new testament, one of the writers said that evildoers will often seem to prosper greater than the Children of the Light. one of those reasons is that they know the rules of the game better than the children of the light. It is so cool that we have laws in our country that allow us to challenge criminals of all economic status. The prosecution of political and financial crimes may be on the rise. A quote from the new testament is "therefore my children be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."

enlightened25 says:

I am sorry but all of us know in reality that the most driven and aggressive people are the most successful and if you are “meek and gentle” these people will trample all over you. To compete with these people you have to be at least as ruthless as they are. This is a significant problem with the Golden rule that just cannot be swept under the carpet.

Sudhakar says:

Mr.Farzad, why don't you translate your response into English

فرزاد says:

جناب سینا

قانون طلایی قانونی نیست که کسی بتواند مدعی کشف کردن آن باشد و آن را به نفع خود مصادره کند، معذرت می خواهم هر الاغی این قانون را می فهمد و درک می کند، دقت کنید

خواجه عبدالله انصاری: “بدی را بدی کردن سگ کاری است، خوبی را خوبی کردن خرکاری است، بدی را خوبی کردن کار خواجه عبدالله انصاری است.”

به نظر می رسد با این نوشته قصد دارید بحث گذشته را که به نقطه حساس آن رسیده است را رها کنید حداقل طبق قولی که دادید ترجمه آخرین نوشته مرا به متن اضافه کنید تا مورد قضاوت خوانندگان قرار گیرد و به گونه ای نشان دهید در مورد قانون طلایی اهل لاف زدن نیستید و در عمل نیز به آن پایبندید فکر کنم وفای به عهد نیز یکی از بندهای قانون طلایی باشد.