Bitter Love: Another Saga of a Muslim Man and a Western Woman

Nadia says:

Please join our page and help other sisters by sharing your stories!

Demsci says:

//"Your statements are not true."//

You simply deny something which does not suit you. Or frightens you.

But what happened in this story may well happen often and again, and again. You should think about the long run and try to somehow fix the problem instead of only denying it, thereby perpetuating it.

And you show yourself to be prepared to "throw your fellow woman under the bus", saying she lies and that the responsibility for the drama was hers and not Islam in any way. In order to save the reputation of your beloved religion.

But you seem prepared to betray her for that, by not even giving her the benefit of the doubt.

At the very best you have a different interpretation of Islam than that abusing Muslim-husband had. But don't you see that that man acted because of his interpretation of Islam? It is shown so clearly here and in many places. And don't you know about Mohammed declaring women insufficient in intelligence? Don't you know about the rule that the testimony of 2 women equals that of 1 man under Islamic law? And you must know that men can marry up to 4 women, but women can never have more than one man.

If women's rights are in contradiction to how many Muslim men interpret and practice Islam's holy texts, don't you think the fault lies with that interpretation of Islam?

Or maybe even with Islam itself? For being too vaque, incomplete, unclear, prone to misunderstanding by millions of men around the world? And for being considered divine, making it impossible to improve the clarity of Islam?

You think the drama happened because of the woman, but what if the drama happened because of Islam? Or a misunderstanding of it? If that is true, then it is going to keep on happening.

And please don't assume that woman or the posters here do "not know Islam at all". She and several writers/ posters are EXMuslims or experts on Islam. Maybe YOU don't know Islam or maybe you interpret Islam in your own cherrypicking way.

IMU says:

I have two answers for you C. 1) If your story is true, I will try helping you and would surely provide you inputs on how to proceed. Please inbox me at [email protected]. 2) If your story is false, meaning it is only been written here to make this so called "religious debate", then a simple advise to all.. emotions are not confined to religions… even a muslim girl if cheated would face the similar agony… have fun bye

Michelle says:

Oh girl I can relate to you! I married a Muslim man on a whim and it has not been easy. Our cultures are so different that it's hard to co-exist, or to have a great relationship. Remember that good relationships require: friendship, passion and commitment. Ask yourself: is he a good friend to me? Is there passion? Are we committed? If anything is missing, it's time to reason why. It would also be a good idea to learn about abuse so that you can recognize it in your relationship. 

To tell you my story, and to make you feel less alone, I married a Muslim man I met on the internet. He told me he loved me and wanted to marry me after three days and I went along with it (for some reason I can't imagine). After 8 mo. of talking I went to Europe and spent 3 mo. with him. When I got there, I found out he was talking to other women online, and when I confronted him about it, he made excuses and got angry. That was red flag number two (which I also ignored). After I left and came back to the US, I filed his immigration forms (which cost over a thousand dollars) and con't. to talk to him online. I kept getting a feeling like there was another woman in the picture, but it was so hard to tell because of the distance. When he finally got to the US after about a year, he had a dating profile on his computer out in the open for me to see. He told me it was his friends site (but it had his picture, I mean, how stupid did he think I was?) so, I again ignored another red flag. Our wedding had already been planned and I felt like I had to go through with it. When we were wedding dress shopping, a waitress gave him her phone number and he took it. We had just bought our rings! I married him two days later, to my chagrin. The wedding was not a happy one for me, I wanted to run for the hills, but I felt like I had to marry him because he had come so far to marry me. We are still married, and as far as I know he has been faithful. But he is very controlling and abusive, and it has happened gradually. He seemed great in the beginning, he was very charming. But he has fits of rage in which he breaks things around our house. He is verbally and emotionally abusive. He never comforts me when I cry and tries to control our finances. I have a separate account, so I have avoided complete control in that area. He wants to send most of our money back home to his family who is not suffering for anything, while we struggle to make a living. He tries to control what I wear, but I have let him know that I won't be controlled in that way. He expects me to be home all the time cooking and cleaning, but I have let him know that I'm a student and won't be doing that as much as he would like. He never gives me any praise or compliments. He's very critical of everything, especially my appearance (although he doesn't care about his own health). I'm also at the point where I'm not sure if this is going to work. I've decided to: 1) create and state good boundaries 2) communicate clearly and 3) see if we can work to find a balance between our two cultures. If not, I am prepared to go, because life is too short to be yanked around on someone else's leash. 

Demsci says:

@RAs
What is your motivation to become a Muslim? Why the postponement? Do you first intend to have a lot of pleasure with things forbidden by Islam?

Remember, once you're in Islam you're stuck, in Islam, and forbidden to think outside it's box so to speak, forbidden to believe anything science comes up with that contradicts Islam, stuck in your development in your hopefully long life.

What if Islam is "perfect" for you and attractive but UNTRUE, only manmade, as is abundantly shown here and elsewhere? Do you still choose for it, just because it feels good? Remember, then heaven and hell are also not true.

What if you later, when you are Muslim, find out, as we have, that the Quran, which has # 6300 verses, has only 83 "nice verses" and 543 very hateful verses for Kaffirs, non-Muslims?

What if you later learn that so many of your fellow-Muslims worldwide really are "stuck in the past", narrow-minded, oppressing women? Look at the movie Honor Diaries (easy to google) or it's trailer. In there we see a Taliban-man repeatedly strike a woman with a whip. But you already knew Muslims weren't perfect, of course.

Can't you find something more useful to do with your life? You could hardly do worse than making yourself a slave (of Allah). 

RAs says:

i am not a muslim… but i am planning to become one after I graduate since i am living in a non-muslim country.Islam is perfect…but not muslims…

Demsci says:

//"But muslim never judge religion from people"//

Interesting. But according to Muslims God + Mohammed introduced (maybe a better version of) Islam. For what purpose? What influence it was supposed to have? Has it worked? Did it perhaps work for a while, but now no longer?

What if Islam does not make any significant difference in the goodness, morality, happiness of people? What if Muslims are just as good or bad on average as all the other people?

Then Islam surely is superfluous. And abiding to it and it's rituals can be classified as a "hobby". Or it is just done to please Allah", who then is very selfish, only asking people to support, gratify, promote himself, not humanity.

Ali Sina says:

Sweetheart, when I was your age, I too thought my faith is unshakable. But you are young and there is still a lot to learn. Who can say you won't be the won who will help millions to leave Islam?

Demsci says:

//"WHO the hell gave right to christian to talk about Islam…..?…….How can an engineer treat a patient and a doctor fix an engine"//

What you write here is preposterous in a democratic society, Superman! Everybody, knowledgeable about Islam or not, has the right to talk about it! And form judgement, especially when some Christians are hurt by some Muslims. And that happens, a lot, in Islamic countries. And it is known and shown by MEMRITV and websites such as this.

But also, there are infidels professors and ex-Muslims and interested infidels who know Islam inside out and there are many Muslims who hardly (bother to) know Islam at all. And that is interesting because according to you they need to completely read Islam to understand it. But we know many don't. And misinterpret it. And when we report this, don;t blame us, but educate the misinterpreting Muslims, please.

But the rule in Islam is that nobody born in Islam may apostasize on pain of death. And why is that if so many Muslims, like the boyfriend in the story, do not even know Islam very well???

shaiva_hindu says:

You should know the facts about Islam first. Try reading your religious books to your satisfaction.

Take some random facts like pedophilia,child marriage,slavery,hate against Jews ,killing of animals,etc. from Islam question yourself (ask your elders/Mullahs instead if you have guts you'll know another aspect of Islam )are they something a religion should propagate or you should become a medium to propagate such things.

You should once take a look at the book :Understanding Mohammad by Ali Sina.(If you ask Ali he might give a free copy) to clear your doubts about Islam.

// our religion is always misinterpreted the thing that is wrong with our world
Do you know about the debates none of the muslim scholars were able to respond satisfactorily after reading Ali's book.

You have 2 options :
1)Read the book then comment choice will be your's.
2)Live in blind faith without knowing the true face of Islam as most others do.

Demsci says:

/"our religion is always misinterpreted"//
And don't you think that that is because your religion is:  UNCLEAR, INCOMPLETE, OBSOLETE, AMBIGUOUS? TOO DIFFICULT to understand? And notice that not only infidels misinterpret, but that millions of Muslims, according to other Muslims, also misinterpret your religion!

//"today is if they read one thing they think the whole thing is bad."//
And can't you imagine that those who taught you Islam and you yourself are so naive that if you read one thing that is true and good in Islam, you think the WHOLE Islam is true and good?

halimah says:

If anyone agrees with me please post

Lenin Gostrich says:

/Think normally..use the frontal lobe of your brain./

OK .What do you mean by the term PEDOPHILE?

Superman says:

WHO the hell gave right to christian to talk about Islam…..?…….How can an engineer treat a patient and a doctor fix an engine…..you all guys donot make sense talking all bullshits….Realting your shit worldly problems to Islam….If you want to marry a Muslim man then covert to Islam then you will know the benefits of Islam…or if u dont want to convert to Islam then marry a christain…Does ISLAM forces you to marry a muslim.????   Little knowledge is a dangerous thing…you need to completely read Islam to understand it…not from a few words from your punk loser friend said about islam…..it is different when you read Islam completely..knowing something alittle bit and knowing some thing completely is hell different…its same as you learnt how to take off an aircraft and you didnt learn how to land…and you are blaming the aircraft…its same as you are watching a movie ,a guy is killing somebody and you said a bad guy a killer ,and you didnt see the movie,s earlier  part where the victum kills his mother…
There Good people and bad people..I m not defending muslims..Muslims are people they can be good they can be bad…Same as not all the christain are good..there are rapist ,gay, prostitutes…and offcourse Good people…

If you blame Islam because of muslims then i will say some other christain is using your brain to do it,,,your parents your christain friends all of the anti muslims around you and your society but not you….Again i m not defending islam..

Think normally..use  the frontal lobe of your brain..MusliM.  Is a person a human,,a man Islam is a religion.   So how can you blame a religion because a person..Islam is a religion Muslims are people. ,people can be good and bad…Or if you dont understood,,,,there are gay and prostitutes and rapist in christain countries ie nonmuslim coutries,,,should the muslims blame christianity for it..does the bile orders you to be gays ,prostitutes and rapist..and use drugs ,night clubs and one night stands and much more….offcourse muslim understand christainity more than christain do as Jesus is mention more respectfully is the Koran.
So this is the huge shit in christain people mind they judge Islam from people…people can be good and bad…there are good muslims and bad muslims…there are good christain and bad christain..

maryam says:

Why..because we sound literate? Is that how you can tell?

Demsci says:

//"I just think you are a bit confused about religion and about Arab culture, because none of the things you mention are embraced by Islam,"//

Look, Jannah, you visited this website and wrote the above. But if you had thoroughly read this website and that of other counterjihadists, like Jihad Watch, Islam Watch, Answering Muslims, you would know how knowledgeable about Islam the writers and maaaaaany posters, often ex-Muslims, are.

So they can retort to you: We think that you, Jannah, are a bit confused about Islam.

Probably because Quran-Hadiths-Sira are too incomplete, unclear, ambiguous, prone to misunderstanding and incapable of improvement by mutation.

Because while you say that the things mentioned are not embraced by "Islam", millions of Muslims say that they are. And the proof of that is shown all the time on counterjihadist websites and they are very knowledgeable about Islam, from the best sources.

But not only that, they consistently show, through MEMRI-tv and other sources, what it is that influential Muslim clerics and leaders tell their listeners in the Muslim countries and these say that the things mentioned ARE embraced by Islam. Or should we say "Their Islam"?

I suggest you humbly admit that YOU do not speak for "Islam" but only for YOUR interpretation/ version of Islam and go from there.

Demsci says:

//"Stop blaming islam because u had gotten married to the wrong man. There are bad men all over the world and they need not be muslim to be bad."//

I only saw this comment just now, because a new comment was posted on this thread.

I like to react to what this Muslim is saying: Why is (s)he Muslim??? I say: Stop PRAISING Islam because you experienced or heard something GOOD from Muslims. There are good men all over the world and they need NOT BE MUSLIM to be good.

Because: Muslims are so quick to doubt and deny all bad influence of Islam, but it does not enter their minds that by the same token they are far too gullible in automatically assuming that Islam does have GOOD influence. As long as they doubt, why don't they doubt that?

And even Islam does have some good influence, then still we say that outside Islam there exists the same good influence, and more of the same and different good influence, even better infuence.

Which really makes Islam superfluous. and some kind of unnecessary intervention of Allah. And then Islam can be seen as only a HOBBY by Muslims, but not as some unique good way of life.

ksather109 says:

Dear C-
I see that I am late to this conversation, with the first comments posted over 62 weeks ago.I am not one to ever comment on posts, but your story touched me deeply as I can relate in a very personal way. I too, met and fell in love with an arab man. I too, met and married him in secret fearing my family's disapproval. I too, was married nearly two years before the hopelessness of my situation came to a head.

When I first met my husband he seemed to be a dream come true! So handsome, so charming, so worldly. It was such a magical adventure for a small town girl from the midwest. I guess I was dazzled. His family was good and gracious to me (with the exception of one of his brother-in-laws) I was never pressured or asked to convert to Islam. I was told by him and that since I am Christian, I was considered people of the book and should be respected. While I was living with his family, I was introduced to other Christians living in the city. I truly believed I had met the perfect man. I believed he would love, respect and honor me as I did him. I was so eager for our life to begin in USA, but that is when it all changed.

It started out with little things. Asking my opinion on things and then taking the word of some stranger (male) over mine. Mocking me for my pale skin and blue eyes (things he had once professed to love about me). Slowly, my self esteem and confidence began to crumble. Questioning my whereabouts on night I worked overtime, I actually had to take him to my office to show a time stamp on the software project I was working on before he would believe I had not been out being a "slut". He would lie to me, he would lie about me. He was so unpredictable. One moment he was his "old self" loving and charming, the next moment he was cursing me. then the physical abuse began. I became a nervous wreak. I was constantly walking on egg shells to keep the peace. It began to effect my health.

Thankfully, one morning I woke and decided this is not the life God had intended for me. As a child of God, I know I am entitled to love and respect, just as God loves me. I filed for divorce on November 1, 2006 and it was final by Nov.12th. When I received the final papers it was as if a tremendous weight had been lifted from me. I am not saying everything was easy and rosey after the divorce. It was not. I took plenty of time to heal and forgive myself. It took even longer to regain my confidence and learn to trust myself again. But it came be done.

I guess what I am trying to say is, although it will be painful and difficult, you can and will come through the other side a better and happier person. My advice to you is focus on your school, be by yourself and truly learn who you are. Marriage can be a good thing, if the husband is the right person for you. You should both support respect and lift each other up. I wish you luck and strength.

On a side note, I have noticed many people on this forum making this an issue about the evils of Islam. These posts should focus on assisting a women to leave an abusive marriage and giving her strength. I would remind everyone that where ever you go in this world there are good people and bad people. It makes no difference if the are christian, jews, hindus,muslims black, white or polk-a-dot. Some people just suck. There are also wonderful, good people to be found in every nation and of every creed. As Martin Luther King Jr. once said, "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Love God, love yourself and the rest will follow.

Tricia says:

Yes I agree that you are right to walk away from this marriage. You're still so young and I wish for you happiness and hopefully a healthy, content relationship in your future.
May I add though that I as a RC woman has been happilly married to a Sunni Muslim for thirty years. This idea that 'all' Muslim men are deceitful.
, abusive etc has to stop. We have a daughter who though raised in my faith has fallen in love with a Shi'ite Muslim boy. My husband and I are devastated by the change in her character and the influence he has over her.
After reading your story I will pray to St Augustine for intervention and trust that our daughter will see the light before he affects the rest of her life

GorgeousFemale says:

I have also dated an Arab man from Iraq/Jordan for two years from 21 years old to 23 years old. I wasn't really in love with him at the beginning but he someone got me to fall deep in love with him about 6 months later of going on dates with him. He was so intelligent, responsible, gentle-man like, generous, and always said the most romantic words to me. It was like he was too perfect especially at such a young age (20 years old), no American young adult man is like that, they don't start becoming like that until they reach 30 years old so I totally fell for this too-good-to-be-true young Arab man. Well two years later, emotional abuse started to happen, he would let his friends sexually harass me and do nothing about it, his friends who he hadn't even been friends with that long, he had been dating me longer, would always be on his friends' sides more than mine, I was shocked, it hurt me terribly. Better yet, at the end of our relationship right before the final break up, he would make fun of me to his classmates/friends about me and it was just total self-destruction/harassment/ I felt so embarassed and so weak and humilated and worthless. There's no reason anyone should do this to you especially your boyfriend or romantic partner. At the beginning he did propose to me, but hearing many negative words from my family and other american natives about the arab men, I thought twice, I loved him so much but I did not have my full trust in him from hearing negative words from the past about them, THANK GOD AND THANK MY FAMILY FOR TELLING ME THE TRUTH ABOUT ARAB MENlAT THE VERY BEGINNING, or else I might have been doomed like the initial writer of this blog. Since our breakup, I have learned to hate arab men. They cannot be trusted. They act so innocent, loving, respecful, too-good at the very beginning, ladies….!!! Listen up, it is so fake. Never trust arab men, they will ruin your inner spirit that once was beautiful and healthy. They will torture you emotionally and possibly even physically. Be warned…

BeautifulWoman says:

Arab men suck. They seem perfect, almost too perfect at the beginning until they get what they want (your devoted love that becomes toxic to yourself) and then once they know that you are in deep love with them, they got you for good into hell. Don't let that happen to you, be a smart woman, love yourself, don't make yourself unhealthy by giving your soul to some asshole arab.

narcole1919721 says:

Dont tell me u lost glasses. its written about hisham bin urwah.

narcole1919721 says:

*sneezes* sorry i got flue. hm?

Rajesh says:

http://www.islaminindia.org/uncategorized/why-did…
It is the accepted tradition that Angel Gabriel communicated the Quran to Muhammad in pure Arabic from God. In other words, God sent down the Quran to Muhammad through Angel Gabriel in Arabic. Actually, when Muhammad first got such an experience, he thought he had been possessed by a ghost and thought of committing suicide! But it was his wife Khadija who convinced him that He had been chosen as a Prophet. This is another clear proof that Islam is not from God. Had God sent an Angel, say Gabriel, to Muhammad to convey to Quran, he would have made Gabriel convey this clearly to Muhammad instead of making Muhammad think that he had been possessed by a demon and driving him to the point of suicide. The very fact that his wife told him that He had become a Prophet and Muhammad himself thought of suicide shows that Muhammad was not chosen as God’s Prophet.

But let us assume that Angel Gabriel did indeed come to Muhammad, sent down by God to reveal the Quran. The ordinary Meccans, Muhammad’s own contemporaries, were almost unanimous in dismissing his revelations as anything but divine. Barring a handful of followers, not more than 70 or 80 people in 12 years of preaching from AD 610 to AD 622, everyone dismissed Muhammad’s claims of receiving Divine messages. Here, if Angel Gabriel really did visit Muhammad for these 12 years, and he and God saw that people are ridiculing Muhammad and dismissing his claims, Gabriel could have easily shown Himself to all Meccans and revealed the Quran to all of them. Even one paranormal act could have been sufficient in showing that Muhammad received Divine messages from God. But Angel Gabriel showed Himself only to Muhammad and Muhammad dictated the Quran! This clearly shows that there was absolutely nothing done which could not have been done by humans. There is of course, no proof at all that Angel Gabriel visited Muhammad carrying God’s messages. It could be that Muhammad genuinely believed what he felt. But if Gabriel went all the way from God to Muhammad and back, he could easily have revealed the Quran to everyone, instead of Muhammad.

As we have seen Swami Dayananda Saraswati observe, the author of the Quran was not God, it was not even any learned or intelligent person. It was someone with a very limited knowledge and understanding. One who thought that God resides at a particular location in this Universe and is not Omnipresent, that God needs Angels to carry his messages.

narcole1919721 says:

http://absoluteverdict.blogspot.com/2012/04/hazra…

narcole1919721 says:

Do you think slandering another prophet with impolite words is right? 

Sakat says:

@Kameela
You need not be so sad ,it would be a needless exercise .No one hate Muslims that is for sure ,but Islam is horrible, especially that mentally sick psychopath Mohammed.Do you denied his marriage to that little girl Ayesha,if no then how could you say this site is full of hate .Ali Sina only highlights the contents of Quran ,sira,hadhits etc.If there is no substance in Sina's claim ,then you or any other  Muslim can come up with authentic documents refuting Sina's claims. This site is based on democratic set up and values ,so everyone has equal right   for debate/discussion/dialogue's.It is very nice of you ,that you respect others belief ,but does   your holy book   preaches so ,if yes ,then either you are not Muslim or you have not read your holly book  or you will be guilty of blasphemy.
Your holly book say the earth is flat ,it is the center of the universe ,sun circumscribing the earth ,moon is above the stars,sun sets in the muddy water do you belief all these things ,if not ,then Allah is false (he is not having the basic knowledge of his creation). Islam say,s God is formless ,then who stay's in Mecca and why Muslims go there . If Islam says  idolatry is blasphemy ,then what that black stone is  doing in Kaba . Why Muslims are terrorizing the world ,your people killed 5000 innocent people (9/11) .Your people destroyed sacred symbols of others belief (Bamiyan Buddha's ).Your people blast bombs at other peoples sacred places (Bomb blast in  Mahabhodhi Temple) .Every infidels living in their respective  countries  are peaceful and making progress except the countries inhabited by Muslims .Lastly the Muslim man after his death will have 72 virgin woman and  20 boys (display of sick mentality of mad Mohammed) in heaven ; what about a religious Muslim woman ?what she will get after her death ?,in heaven .Islam say 99% woman will go to hell,then what logic operates behind  claiming " PROUD TO BE A MUSLIM'?. Don't believe any thing  blindly ,this is 21st century , believe your mind not your heart. 

Kameela says:

I am sad to read these posts abd the story. Not all Muslims are bad. Like Christianity or any other religion we have people who do not do right. This page is full of hate from the woman who wrote it abd the people who respond with hate. Shame on all of you. I am Muslum and proud. I am everything sweet and kind and gentle. Yes there are fanatics out there in all religions. Be careful judging for you will be judged. I love all you. Christian, Jews, Atheist, etc……. I repect your beliefs. My Muslim husband has never beat me. He is so sweet to me and has shown me how beautiful I am on the inside. He is very protective abd I love this for I am very sensitive. Please do not judge people by majority or minority. Take each individual as just that. I wish you to all find peace. STOP fighting please and just love each other faults and all. 

iqbal says:

HI  Assalamu alaikum,  this is best wors of Islam May peace be upon u. Rather thangood morning etc..first u must know tht is Islam means,who is jesus pbuh. Was he god or messenger of God ,u watch deen show , and watch some americans how they convert to islam ,  only the way for paradisr whixh accepted by God is Islam it means submitting will to god

Darrion says:

This sounds more to me like the problem with your relationship isn't necessarily that he's Muslim and you're not. The problem seems to be that you both went in to the relationship thinking that you could change the other person. You weren't honest with yourself from the beginning. 

I'm currently dating a Muslim Man, (i have been dating him for a year now). He's the most wonderful man I've ever met. I'm sorry that these things have happened to you, but i feel compelled to tell you and everyone out there that, really, this isn't normal. I feel like, on the Internet, we only see the really incredibly bad stories, because they are the ones that are dramatic enough to get everyone's attention. 

I've recently started a blog about dating a Muslim man, and it takes a slightly different tone than the one in the letter. I think being in a relationship with someone from a completely different background requires a lot of understanding and compassion, but I really think it is not a lost cause. 

My blog is 
http://travelinglightwithlove.blogspot.com/

But, i think you should consider divorcing your husband. No woman deserves to be treated like they don't matter, especially by their husbands. 

I really do wish you all of the luck in the world 

Trish says:

Start reading the Holy Bible and get to know the real Jesus Christ, the One and Only True God who came to earth adn took on the form of a man to sacrafice Himself for our trangressions so that we have eternal life. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life". Nothing is too difficult for the Lord God Creator of Heaven and Earth. He can remove the veil off your husband's eyes and open is heart to know the real Jesus Christ. Just pray to the Lord Jesus and ask for God to reveal Himself to both you and your husband. Remember there is no other who can intercede for our sins but Jesus alone who bore the sins of the world.No "saints", no statutes and not Mary (Miriam) can be prayed to only the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Anonymous says:

You sound like a fruit, this poor woman is suffering from domestic violence and you defend her attacker. I hope C leaves her guy, grow up Zohaib the world doesn't revolve around religio.

Agracean says:

Grow up, Maria!

Maria says:

All I can say that you have never been true to your religion in the first place you deceived your parents you lied you went against your own roman Catholic religion so before you start pointing the finger at islam and muslims take a good look at your self because your far from perfect.  This is not in reply to nib head islamaphobe vijay but in answer to the whore who wrote this pathetic blog

tracy bowser says:

MMS could be the bodily fluid of microscopic albino aliens, that are harmless to the GI tract, but which as a side effect of their metabolism produce magical autism curing ethers.
You need to rule out this possibility before jumping to conclusions.

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Sakat says:

@Slave of Prophete
You are already lost, don't bark again. No one ( a sane man/woman think of marring a Muslim even in her/his dream )think to become Muslim take note of this . You are fit to become slave to this pedophile Mohammed and not to the author of your own destiny . Don't let your children ,follow you ,let them choose their own life. This is the era of science,allow your son/daughter to hug science/modernity not this thug ,pedophile , road robber ,Taliban ,MAD MOHAMMED.

Agracean says:

Dear C and Abby, it's time to dump all these braindead zombies into the rubbish bin and start life afresh. Can't you gals see that there are so many faithfreedom fish swimming in the deep blue sea beneath and there are also so many faithfreedom birds flying in the deep blue sky above? So, don't lose heart and be wise the next time round. Wish you gals all the very best in finding a good fish or bird. :*

Demsci says:

"There are good and bad in all religions and all walks of life."

OK. But believing so and stopping there does not answer the questions: "What influence does Islam have?" "On what" ? And: Is it good, bad or neutral to that?

Islam exists and is very widespread, and it is highly unsatisfactory, even for Muslims, to stop thinking and pretend it has NO influence, is strictly neutral. If it has no influence it has no good influence either. And then Islam should ALSO NOT BE JUDGED by all those Muslims who do good deeds and live good moral lives.

I think Islam is in many ways contradicting modern democratic laws, customs, values and so it has very bad influence on them and those people who adhere to them and that Islam is not neutral at all.

And terroristic and criminal Muslims very often openly and clearly adhere to Islamic laws, customs and values that are divine according to them en that are in direct opposition to democratic modern ones. And they are often shown to want to practice and promote the Islamic ones and they despise the democratic modern ones.

I think that the Islam that is interpreted like that, that that is a major factor for such malevolence towards the West (democratic modern societies).

And Muslims should at least admit that huge numbers of them want different laws, customs, values and societies than those of the West. And that that motivates a lot of them to do crimes in Western eyes. Muslims should not deny or ignore it all the time, when their own fellow Muslims so often confirm the suspicions of the democratic, modern people.

chuck says:

@I-HATE-ISLAM,
//They pray five times a day/
Didn't you mean "They prey five times a day" ? 🙂

I-HATE-ISLAM says:

You really are pathetic. By saying that those who commit these crimes are "so-called Christians", you have admitted that they, in fact, have gone against the teachings of the Christian faith which calls for loving one's neighbor as one's self and a display of an endless capacity to forgive. Zakat has very ably responded to your misguided notion. I have very little to add. But be honest enough to look at the statistics and admit that when it comes to violence and atrocities all those perpetrated by non muhammadans come into an insignificant fraction of what muhammadans do with all pleasure. Since 9/11, there have been about 21,000 acts of violence by muhammadans. How many are attributed to all others combined? In 2010 a list of about 146 terrorist groups was published. 92 are muhammadan and only 10 are Christian with Marxists accounting for 15. How do the figures compare? This year alone more than 2000 people have been mutilated in Pakistan by muhammadan terrorist groups. Which other group has killed even one person there? About 98% of civilians killed in Iraq have died at the hands of muslims. Where have non muslims done that? In my country, Nigeria, boko haram has embarked on a frenzied orgy of indiscriminate extermination of whole populations, particularly Christians. There has been no Christian response to all of that insanity. Muhammadans are responsible for devastating wars in Somalia, Sudan, Mali etc. Some of these wars have gone on for decades now. Can you point to a Christian equivalent of these 'holy' wars?
There is always a rush by muhammadans to use Timothy McVeigh and Anders Breivik as examples of 'christian terrorists'. But they find it convenient to forget that McVeigh claimed to be an agnostic who believed in a God. No Christian believes in 'a god'. Every Christian believes in one God; not many. Breivik says he is a 'cultural christian' who prayed once in his life.
Do muhammadan terrorists claim to be agnostic or cultural muslims? They pray five times a day, perform the hajj and observe other islamic rituals. These terrorists quote the quran to justify their actions and refer to the examples of Muhammad as the basis of what they do. Those who are familiar with the quran and the sunna have no problems with the actions of the terrorists as they cannot deny those claims. Only hypocrites pretend to condemn them while the nitwits, who are in the minutest minority, argue that the terrorists are not muhammadans. Ex-Christian, now New-Terrorist, choose which of these groups you belong to.You should find it intriguing that an ex-muhammadan eschews violence; whereas a convert to islam embraces it. Unarguably, the difference, as we say in my country, is quite clear.

Ex-Christian says:

Some who profess to be Muslim kill, rape, exhibit acts of violence etc – all actions which are haram. These individuals are not representative of Islam and unfortunately paint a bad picture for Islam. But Islam should not be judged by the deeds of these so-called Muslims. True Islam is pure, honest and good.

Many forget or refuse to acknowledge the crimes – murder, rape, terrorism, violence etc – committed on a daily basis by so-called Christians. The only difference is that they are never referred to as "Christian terrorists" or "Christian extremists" in the media. Same applies to the Jews, Hindus, atheists etc. This unfairness, this biased attitude, is a major factor for such malevolence towards the West.

There are good and bad in all religions and all walks of life.

I-HATE-ISLAM says:

Ali, you are quite right. That is why muhammadan countries hardly contribute to disaster relief efforts particularly when it involves non muhammadan communities.

Ali Ghoshasaan says:

There are 493 lines in the Queran Against Non-Muslims and
NOT ONE line recommending kindness, cooperation or respect toward Non-Muslims.

Amy says:

"This thread is all about hatred against Muslims. Let me tell you some history. Muslims have their ups and downs, and they have been down in the last few centuries. now they are poor and destitute, corrupt and far away from the teaching of their own beautiful religion. Some Muslims have made the image of Islam even worse by burning churches and by doing many other useless and dangerous deeds. They are doing this because they are uneducated. They are not properly exposed to modernity.

But to my relief, I have seen Christian writings dated many hundred years ago admiring the lifestyles of Muslims in Spain and instructed Christian young people to emulate them. To my happiness as well, I have seen an increasing number of young dedicated Muslims who are dedicating their lives to the good of others regardless of their religious affiliation. These young people are the hope of Muslims. It is quite reassuring to me that these young people will be the ones who save the world while upholding the tenets of Islam and remain loyal to their Islamic identity. Let me tell everybody in this forum that Islam is rising, and it is rising for the benefit of all mankind."

Your religion isn't good to women. I am not a fan of it, because it doesn't support my rights. Islam needs to learn tolerance for other religions too.

betty says:

my husband is muslim and i'am american … i live in tunisia for a year. i'am home sick but i have problems with their culture and all. if you are marry to a muslim husband and just want to talk .. i would like that. i have facebook. my name is Betty Mokni … you also can fine me under Betty Biederstadt. it would be nice to fine other people that understands what i'm going through…. i just get lonely and it would be nice to find a friend i can talk too.

infidel/kafir says:

Moslem man : Let me tell you are a savvy TAQIYYA merchant . TAQIYYA, MUBAHILA, DAR UL ISLAM , DAR UL Harb , Fatwas, JIHADS< apostacy, DHIMMI < Mushriks,murtads – just to mention only few ideas of ISLAM/Moslems are uniquely evil, cruel,wicked. You are not honest and you are without any conscience. You are without any truth,facts. Everybody condemns the few violent instances in US and they are declared as criminals and law applies to them. No sympathy. In the case of ISLAM , it is all ( criminality,cruelty,wickedness, ill will, jealousy) are all instigated by ISLAMIC teachings,MO, ALLAH. No human being will be a good person if he/she accepts ISLAM and practices ISLAM . Dont mislead gullible people with your falsehoods. Look at any ISLAMIC country, any ISLAMIC regime, and ISLAMIC culture, ISLAMIC society. How and what do they treat unbelievers ? Why to declare a country as ISLAMIC ? to persecute, to torment and kill unbelievers, using ISLAMIC sharia, to terrorize nonmoslems. ALL this cruelty, all this savagery, all this killings, all the discriminations IN ISLAM gives you peace !!!! You are happy !!! This is because you are a MOSLEM follower of that monster MO . I tell you, you will not have a peaceful end . ISLAM is false and Mo was a demon. What aspect of Mo s actions, character do you want to follow ? Can you have good conscience if you follow MO and his sunna and , QQUURRAAN >

infidel/kafir says:

Your world renowned ISLAMIC scholars are BOZOs and buffoons !!
Do you call them as scholars ? Whatever they say is scholar to You !!!
First of all , all this is a farce . Dont you understand any thing in QQUURRAAN, which says everything is clear, understandable and easy !!! What is there in QQUURRAAN or SIRA or HADIS that you dont understand ? It is all confused , incoherent mumbo- jumbo, filled with cruelty, evil, wicked, perverse ,poisonous tenets of ISLAM .

aminthemystic says:

"I know very well how muslim are. "

"Of course there are some good people (my friends & neighbours) but I considered that they are "bad" muslims."

– –

You use phrases that other people claiming to be ex-Muslim use.

Hence, you are probabaly one person – posting under different names. And very likely NEVER been a Muslim – at all.

Absurd_Religion says:

Dear C,
I was born & raised in muslim country. You may say that I've been live in Muslim country all my life & how I envy you & other who lives in western country. I know very well how muslim are. Trust me. Of course there are some good people (my friends & neighbours) but I considered that they are "bad" muslims. Good people are "bad" muslims & Bad people are "good" muslims. I hope you get the meaning. Sorry for my poor english. I can't describe it with my short skill of english writing. Tell your friend, spread the words. You can also see how sick they are from the threads they've posted here in this blog. What thewho said was right. KICK HIM OUT OF STATES! and try to stop islamisation on you country.

Best wishes,

NP

Cookson says:

@Ali – another imbecile who never read the Quran & The Sunnah. All what Dr Ali Sina (keep up the good work Dr.) is doing is writing them down so that moron like you read your own najis

Cookson says:

Hmmm that perhaps explain why the GDP of 52 Muslims countries is only equal to that of Spain hahahaha

Cookson says:

Just because Muslims, Allah and Mohammad are the best in deceiving people, does not mean Dr Ali Sina will do the same.

Wake up you dimwitted Muslims

don brondol says:

You are right!, but how this can happen in my country Indonesia or Egypt?, which we as non moslem also natives in these countries. Anyway, we non moslem Indonesians now fight back! Too long this cursed belief has made home in my country. As Indonesia although the majority is labeled as moslem, but most of them still hold the golden rules as human being and traditional values. Now some of them have started to change into another being, Indonesian moslem becoming Arab moslem. Thanks to internet and your website, we do have a solid weapon to fight back!

haroon says:

hahaah what a piece of shitt acting like a dirty dog who has his tail wounded 🙂

FreeThinker says:

Terrible :(.. .I can't understand that habit of marrying cousins. It is forbidden in several US states. Why didn't your parents arrange someone else for you? Marrying a cousin has its risks, and it gets worse as generation after generation marries among cousins. Babies have a high chance of being born with birth defects. My friend has a serious visual impairment, and so do 3 of his 4 siblings.

Moose says:

I was forced to marry my first cousin (I'm 21 and she's 15) this past summer in Bangladesh. I couldn't say no because honor killings have happened before in my extended family and Bangladeshi marriage law says that if you refuse to get married, your parents can exchange marriage vows on your behalf and you are still legally bound.

I can understand what you're going through right now, Calabrian girl. It's extremely difficult to pull yourself out of abusive relationships. I can't make myself break away from my parents at all, and now I have a 15 year old girl who thinks having sex is a crime against nature and constantly belittles me for not blindly following her faith, and insists that if I don't listen to her I will burn in hell for all eternity.

vijay says:

I am just reporting this thing. Is it OK to have wine in Paradise ? What wine is which is wine of Paradise ?

mel says:

Just for ur info… smoking cigarettes have been proven to be harmful and so many fatwas have made it haram in islam.. i feel sorry that u jad to end up with the group of arabs who thinks only best of themselves. I am a devoted muslim and personally i dont like that side of these people too. It is not at all what the quran and prophet muhammad taught his ummah. However i should remind u that not al muslims are arabs and not all arabs are muslims. What u r going through here is a social stigma which doesnt happen in my country. Ur husband is clearly obsessed with this man whom i would call a hypocrite. His actions do not portray those of a real muslim man. But in the end religion is a choice. U can act like u believe in islam infront of ur husband but god knows that u had never believed in it and hence if u had never believed in it then u were never a muslim. Stop blaming islam because u had gotten married to the wrong man. There are bad men all over the world and they need not be muslim to be bad.

sigh singh says:

I am reminded of a short american comedian with a "puffed up funny face, I reckon he was only popular for his one "liners". I could be wrong, but i think he was named or called dangerfield.

had absolutely no substances what so ever. He was boring and ugly too.

Sigh Singh says:

Young Christian told to emulate the lifestyles of those who ruled over them in Spain? I strongly doubt your statement is at all true.

Its’ almost good to read your article yet it is written for the younger ignorant muslims to emulate the good deeds of humanity by the European man and woman. But I feel that the Christians Folks from America and most part of the European Christian generation deserve far better credit for all their hard work in building schools and shelters in many parts of the world. Most assuredly, these wonderful and loving souls deserve praise in my part of the world.
I live in the far east Asia and I can tell all of you ignorant left wing "we are for you Palestine home state sympathizers " and young Americans and foot loose fancy free European, that you'll never ever come across a muslim charity here in my part of the world who will help non muslims in any disasters. In many ways, it is always so strange for me to see the politeness way in nature of European & American travelers in my country when they visit our ancient temples, knowing bloody well that they better not insult any muslims in any way. They’ve been forewarned in their guide books of their actions if they do not observe the basic decorum of muslims or their teachings.

Yet, when they are safely back home in their countries, they support the demise of Israel. I constantly see them on my cable TV with their ply cards marching against any israelist military actions on Gaza. I'll never understand your liberal stands or your stands on Pro Middle Eastern Arabs views. I would rather donate any form of monetary funds to English D League any day then to support your blind cause for the settlement of the Palestine State. If the lot of you who are Pro Palestine and waging a political warfare for their settlement, my suggestion to you is to come out in great force and picket outside the embassies of SOW U DI to take their Palestine brethrens and have em settled in their HO LY land.

After all we are constantly bombard on muslim TV how well these SOW U DI folks are and how generous to their cause of printing and sending free Q books to the HO LY warriors in my part of the world. SOW U Di are well known to most secret govt agencies as the main funders of HO LY warriors, {for the lazy ass people who find reading books difficult- don’t waste your time either watching the Hollywood movie “KINGDOM”} with the objective of regaining “the lost” supremacy during SU LAY MEN the great conquered this part of the world.

My two cents worth of salt on the subject of Mus Man's article is that, he may be right in assuming that MO's devotees are on their rise in numbers across the world. But it means carp to all to assume that their rise in numbers is by any means for the betterment humankind. Its just absurd to reckon this notion when clearly all across the world the cause of most human misery is caused by the fanatical muslims. Slightest provocation on MO or his beaded face or burning of the their Q books and “wa la way” {as we say here in my country} the world’s on ablaze.

Just, for once, I would like to witness on TV MO’s devils to be saints on the streets rioting against one of their own for throwing expensive shoes at a cowboy or against “ham as” for sending xmas fireworks to israel or against the” tell ill bans” for shooting a young person for advocating schooling in her back water village or against an acid splashing husband on his young wife in “bang a long desh” and for chopping the heads and limbs of Buddhist and Christians in “in do ne sia” or in southern Thailand. I’m quite assured that these will BE THE ONES WHO will be in the fore front of “loonies” burning this world JUST SO to upholding the tenets of Islam.

I’m so glad that I’m old and will not see long into the future of tantamount sufferings should the tenets of IS LAM is fulfilled, because some lame ass European and American give up his and her fundamental right of his and her forefathers hard earned bill of freedom.

Sat Sri Akal. {kab ke rega Klasha raj?}

Richmond Timothy says:

AZZURI GIRL C, I concur with your parents that you heaped whatever has happened to you on yourself. It may have been out of sheer ignorance or the quest to try something exotic as muslim men are seen by western women. If your life is in pieces, quickly gather them up and move on to the next and profitable stage. The man has divorced you according to islam. Take the hint and get out of his way otherwise you may not even live to regret it. As a devout muslim killing you means nothing to him because he would be doing allah's will by ridding the world of one infidel. You may bank on American justice deterring or catching up with him. Do not deceive yourself into conceiving such thoughts for the man may evade the system. Even where he does not, what good would justice achieve if the harm has already been done? The greatest undoing of the civilized world is its total ignorance of islam and its scorch. Those who try to expose the danger inherent in this cult are branded with all kinds of derogatory names especially by pseudo intellectuals and journalists who have sold themselves for a pot of pottage. This is the time for you to accept reality and leave sentiments aside. STOP CRYING FOR IT BENEFITS YOU NOTHING. MOVE ON FOR YOUR FUTURE IS EVEN BRIGHTER NOW.

vijay says:

Just got the news, first from anti Islamists Hindus and then reconfirm it from another neutral source. The most brutal rapist, who lead to the death of girl is named as Mohamad Afroz allies Raju. And due to his status of minor age, he will be not be prosecuted but will out soon after some reforms, due to Indian laws. If I am not mistaken, he lured that girl into bus calling her as elder sister. This guy is the sixth person. He was mentioned during the first time but identity was not disclosed for his being minor.

᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

Jesus died for us all, christians and Moslems.????

[youtube uoLvAbMP2lY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoLvAbMP2lY youtube]

haroon rashid says:

hahah well said this is my first time i m on this page and was wondring wt kind of person he is and what he is trying to do and what exactly his mean is,of course i m mulim brought up in muslim socity and now spending life in westren country been long time but this person is talking about us and about the system of our socity which we dont know never seen neither heard but anyway everyone has rights to say whatever they want but SAHER i m totaly agree with u that the story on top is absolutly his style of writing and making stories and i didnt realize anywhere that it sounds or style of american english and to make myself more sure i start reading all his blogs and stories and it sounds and style same but anyway mr sina or whatever ur propper name is if you belive in jesus and think that the mission peace then you are not doing the right things you just spreading hater with your stories and lies and saying things you might never seen in your life or never heard about them so my recomendations is that you have nice blog and cleaver mind so better if you use it for peace and love because life has too many other things to do too.all the best.

Christy says:

My responce was erased,it was not filled with hate.Perhaps no one wants to hear that you should refer to the Bible and what it says about marriage with an unbeliever. I am also in a cross cultural and religous marriage. We live with our choices . Recognize that Christ loves our unbelieving husbands more than we do,go to Him for guidance.

Steadyfriend says:

From your writings, it is clear you accept a muslim man can have up to 4 wives if he upholds the condition of being able to do justice "to each and everyone of them". However, in the 21st century, that is not the point. The point is a muslima has not been given the same right of having up to 4 spouses. THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG IN ISLAM. I am sure you can see the inequity of this 4-wives Quranic ruling!

{Don't point out the oft-repeated reasoning of other muslims to me, namely if a woman had up to 4 husbands, the paternity of the child cannot be determined, it can be done using DNA methods — strange how Allah could not foresee or foretell this development of the 20th century! Also, don't tell me a woman with multiple husbands will become a prostitute. This would be true only of a muslim man with 4 wives and other "right hand possessions"(sex slaves) is termed a womaniser and male prostitute}

I have provided one example alone, but I can draw your attention to at least 10 other iniquitous rules from the Quran for the muslim woman. These constitute discrimination against and oppression of the muslim woman in Islam.

J_Stillwater says:

@zitouni… is boko haram fighting muslims? Let's move the battle arena to nigeria… is boko haram fighting muslims? No… are they taking slaves? Yes… are they raping them? Yes… Do they believe they are waging Jihad? Absolutey YES… as they have said in their beheading videos…

By the way… I have never read about boko haram on an "anti-islam" site… I have only read about them from al-jazeera, Reuters, alarabia and other global news sources…

J Stillwater

thewho says:

Dear C, a suggestion for you, leave this man, but PLEASE PLEASE dont just stop at locking your door from him, send him back to his country, KICK HIM OUT OF THE STATES! since you have only been married for 2 years his green card status is still CR (conditional resident) he could lose this status if you (as his sponsor) do not remove it. This is from the uscis web: effect of not filing: if this petition is not filed you (He) will automatically lose your (His) permanent resident status as for the second anniversary of the date which you (He) were granted conditional status. remember the anniversary is not the date of your marriage, but the date of when he first stepped into the US soil. so please do not file the petition to remove his CR status, he could still try to stay in the states by requesting a waiver, but i highly doubt the USCIS will grant it, why?i cant tell too much i dont want this information to be a loophole that will be used by unresponsible muslims who are using american citizens to get a permit to stay in the states (i know how they are i was born and lived in one of the largest muslim country) so back to his GC, yes fortunately if you dont remove it his GC will be terminated and he will be deported. dont let him stay in the US trust me….he will use another woman like u (i hope you get my point)

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… If I can show you two or more clear, irrefutable examples where Muhammad ordered the slaughter of persons speaking against him (i.e. disagreeing with him)… will you change your name to Non-Muslim Man and renounce islam?

Think about it, you've said that it is bad for people to slaughter other people for disagreeing with them. If muhammad and his companions practiced this reprehensible behavior, don't you think this is a good enough reason for you to abandon islam? Do you want to be the follower of a man who so insecure that he assassinated people who spoke against him? Do you want to be the follower of a man who obviously has lower moral principals than you do? If you do, you can clearly see why I say islam is madness.

Let me know when you are ready for me to post the information about muhammad the assassin.

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… yet more muslims bring grief and heartache on their neighbors.

Bangladesh:
(home of the islamic terror organization: Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh)

Keep in mind as you read the following links, that the Bangladeshi muslims are turning away their Rohingya muslim brothers and sisters by the hundreds of thousands who are trying to reach safety from the violence that was sparked in neighboring burma, when 3 muslims raped and slit the throat of Thida Htwe, while she walked home from her job. They robbed her, and took her jewelry, and dumped her body in a mangrove field.

Buddhists killed
Buddhist temples torched
Christians driven from their homes by muslims
Protests agains muslim violence
Apostates from islam persecuted

Islam is madness.

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… still more peace and harmony (persecution and butchery) brought on by muslims in islamic countries:

Malaysia:
Anti Christian seminar
Churches Firebombed
Mathura Riot

Continued below…

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… more peace and harmony (persecution and butchery) brought on by muslims in islamic countries:

Turkey
http://www.aina.org/news/20121024190017.htm

Egypt:
http://www.aina.org/news/20121029195111.htm
http://www.aina.org/news/20121008001210.htm
http://www.aina.org/news/20121017202832.htm
http://www.aina.org/news/20121101201755.htm
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world…

Continued below…

J Stillwater

Muslim Man says:

Dear zitouni, I know the three universities you mentioned, and I am aware of international Islamic universities in Uganda, Pakistan, Malaysia. I also know that there are hundreds other Islamic universities in the Muslim world, which offer various academic programs in Islamic sciences. However, graduating from these programs does not automatically make a person a qualified scholar who can issue fatwa or interpret the Quran through rigorous ijtihad process.

Certainly the presence of graduates of these programs in the community is very beneficial in providing guidance to the ummah in various aspects of the religion.

Demsci says:

Search for truth said:
"Dismissal and denial are not REBUTTAL!"

Ali Sina can be seen to use the terms Nonsens, Lies etc also, but he always let those follow by a proper REBUTTAL, explaining how he looks upon the same issue and why he prefers his own take over the take of his opponent.

But when you are only in a destructive mode you dismiss-deny-debunk on ground only of an opponent not having provided evidence and an answer. But the opponent does not need to do this, because what he proposed could still be true and meritorious.

He merely risks being defeated by contradicting evidence and a contradicting opinion supported by evidence.

Demsci says:

You asking for evidence, examples is fine. But the opponent who has just made a proposition for which you asked that, is under no obligation to answer. Even if he does not answer it is still a fallacy to declare his proposition false merely because of lack of evidence.

It should be enough that the opponent to such a person who gives propositions but no evidence is in a favorable position to convince the reader by providing counterproof, or a counterproposition WITH evidence.

Demsci says:

This is that same fallacy in a somewhat different form:

"Argument from ignorance (appeal to ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam) – assuming that a claim is true (or false) because it has not been proven false (true) or cannot be proven false (true).[13]

You use the variety of assuming that a claim is false because it has not been proven true.

I am a person rich in details, proposition, or claims, opinions but poor or slow in providing evidence for them.

I am not used to accompany propositions-claims-opinions with evidence all the time. Neither are almost all those I interact with regularly.

But to claim my propositions-claims-opinions are false JUST because I fail to provide evidence, THAT IS a logical fallacy. It is also a fallacy to assume that my propositions are meaningless, without merit, simply because there is no evidence attached to them.

Truthseeker-readers should accept at least ambiguity about my propositions or give me benefit of the doubt for the sake of finding highest possible truth and not believe you when you start being negative about them; claiming them to be false, meritless and not worthy of belief, consideration, examination.

zitouni says:

Still waterv said : actually, your post is not correct. What Dar es Salam" means is "house of peace," and has nothing to do with submission. It is a different phrase altogether..

Let me put an end to this silly argument about peace , Islam which one is . Here is how Bin Kathir interpreted the verse 2 : 208 where he said that silm in the verse means Islam according to pioner of Tafsir science ibn Abbas
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_conte…

Muslim Man says:

Dear J_Stillwater, you said "I have already asked this question of muslims… in fact… very learned muslims… and they have all agreed that jizya will return with the reinstatement of shariah law in a worldwide califate (in conquered areas anyway)"

How many very learned Muslims did you ask? Do you think they represent all Muslims?

Muslim Man says:

Dear J_Stillwater, you said: " your "qualified scholars" have "interpreted" the words "strike at their necks at length" to include striking at their necks, heads, chests, legs, arms, etc., with… bombs, ak47's, improvised explosive devices, shoulder launched grenades, suicide vests, sniper rounds, etc.

I am wondering where and when I suggested that my qualified scholars etc … etc. I hope this does not represent "ad hominem" and "fallacy of insufficient sample" on your part.

Muslim Man says:

Dear J_Stillwater, Islamic scholarship is dynamic and contextual. There has been interpretation and reinterpretation of Quran. Certainly, there are also scholars who insist on textual interpretation of Quran. However, I believe, contextual interpretation is the most suitable.

Muslim Man says:

Dear J Stillwater, I continue to maintain that slaughtering people who disagree with you is bad. And the Prophet did not sluaghter people who disagreed with him. Therefore, I don't slaughter people just because of them being in disagreement with me.

The context of the Quran injunction is war. In a peaceful situation, where there is no war and therefore no enemies that injunction is not applicable. There is a saying or a hadith (I cannot quote it precisely — that's why I am not a qualified scholar) which says that Islam is a religion for people who think. I would not be considered a thinking person if I just went to my neighbor's house and kill him, and had I done that thenI was in clear violation of the Prophet's teaching.

Tay Jacqueline says:

C, I didn't reply directly to your post as I am not a member of your blogging site, hence I posted here for you.

I might have chosen a wrong place to reply your post haha cos i've just received a reply, and thinking it might be you, i read it and then realised oops it's not, but, just to add, was uninvited and unpleasant, to say the very best.

So C, i hoped you read my 2 earlier messages to you and if you do not, I wish you the very best. I worded my texts carefully so far, or so I thought, so as not to get involved with theological debates with either sides. But I guess, my naive attempt failed, and badly haha. So it's best I keep my mouth shut henceforth. You may email me privately if you wish about your life. I left my email address at this site, Ali's site I believe? before I can post to you as a guest.

C, do what makes you truly happy. We all do so, even the gentleman who have just posted the 'unpleasant' reply to me. He needed to feel better. And he, as well as others, probably would do again after this, it is beyond his control, but will claim that it is by his choice, which is …..well. But C, you DO have a choice. Be TRULY happy. Choose it. Be in control of your life. You know what to do. Just do it.

Bye

aminthemystic says:

So why BOTHER to come to a controversial site in the first place? For what . . . then run away?

– – –

Sina has done this before. After some posts . . . the alleged person mysteriously disappears – perhaps in order NOT to reveal the forgery by tripping up?

Tay Jacqueline says:

Dear C, you can't change your husband, not even by trying to love him, nothing will. Give up that notion. It is his own free will to change. You can't love him to change him, that would not be love on your part. That would be manipulative and selfish. Hopefully my words are not too harsh to you. But the grace your Faith taught you is not to love for a purpose. It is acceptance.

If you love him, let him be. Accept him as he is. Recognise he has a choice. It is entirely up to him. Whether he is brainwashed, or he is indeed or not capable/have the freedom of mind to choose, it is not an excuse which you need to give him, so as to give yourself a 'reason' to stay.

But you have to love yourself as well, as your Faith teaches you 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'. Which implies you have to first love yourself. And respect yourself enough to stand up for how others treat you. You are blinded by your feelings too much. Let go of this relationship, this marriage, this man. Loving feelings, needing someone, loneliness, pain, these are transient only. Embrace them yes, but keep moving. These feelings will go away. Have the courage to want to have a better life, to want to wake up one morning and smile, instead of cry.

He does not love you the way you wish him to. After all the things he did to you as described by your letter. Face that fact. He is not right guy.

Be courageous and strong. Exercise your right as an adult to choose. Move on. Walk away. Be free. Go back to Your Faith. Have children in the future to embrace the Faith of your choice.

Be brave, C, be brave. Very quickly, happiness will find you.

aminthemystic says:

"But I propose that in the presence of a proposition without evidence the job of a defender is to provide to the reader a SECOND OPINION, however small, and with no obligation of evidence, to choose from. "

This is SIMPLY absurd – and simply EXCUSES from you.

Who else has come up with this and agrees with you?

Name them. . .

SURELY – you are NOT the only person to say this.

– – –

This has actually gone on long enough. You made a claim – WHICH YOU PROBABLY made up . . .

when challenged . . . you could NOT GIVE EVIDENCE. . .

Hence this excuse.

I was probably right.

Rather than admitting . . . you are simply carrying on with this absurdity.

– – –

"Aminriadh (often) wants to nullify propositions, arguments, claims, as if they were never mentioned."

Where – you make MANY lying claims about me. . . then simply subside when challenged . . . then they pop up again.

– – –

"That is if he does not want to use propositions against opponents if he can.
(But that same treatment he does not want to be used against Quran-Hadiths-Sira-Tafsir). "

More lying. And NOTHING more . . .

– – –

See you made this "propositions " BS up. No one in the world hold this to be true. Else . .. show me?

And use this BS to make up further strange excuses and lies like this:

"That is if he does not want to use propositions against opponents if he can.
(But that same treatment he does not want to be used against Quran-Hadiths-Sira-Tafsir)."

– – –

"I want to accept and appreciate propositions a little and let them then be opposed by and compete and be compared with better propositions, arguments, claims, opinions. To present the reader with informed choices. It is a positive approach. "

No just absurd – and UTTER BS.

Else why don't you show me – who else is saying it?

aminthemystic says:

"It is the umptieth strawman-fallacy committed against me. "

No it isn't – else for the umpteenth time why?

– – –

"I am in favor of letting personal abuse be and against protection of hurt feelings. "

NO – you actively encouraged and JUSTIFIED such abuse.

That is 2 different things.

Continual denial of this is just lying about it.

– – –

"But I understand that there are borders, like the place where to do it, on principle a place where people can "zap away" and I suppose that extreme cases of slander can be punishable by law. "

Again . . .excuses.

As per usual – this is NOT for the 1st time. When on issues you claim to have certain beliefs – then it proven and used against you . . .

you start to make excuses.

– – –

"Burden of proof" is one such issue. You make absurd excuses against it.

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… now you are speaking for all people everywhere? Why don't you say: "J Stillwater, WITH ME you have lost all credibility…" ?? That would be more accurate. Can you see how your statement is a fallacy? It assumes in the conclusion, several things that you would have to prove first. It is much more accurate to state: "you have lost all credibility WITH ME," since you can ONLY speak for yourself, and not for anybody else.

Finally… your statement assumes that I once had credibility with you. I sincerely doubt this is the case, so again, logical fallacy, and just another attempt to "poison the well" in the hopes that your comments will distract readers away from my reasoning… classic debate tactics… but again… poorly played.

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

You lost ALL credibility after the BIG DECLARATION fiasco.

Yet you are still here – how shameless.

Still making petty arguments. Which you lose over and over.

– – –

Why have you started to make up strange lies?

See here:
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/19/bitter-love-an…

Why?
– – –

As for this:

"The whole idea of an "outline" is that it is not comprehensive,"

Yes it appears to be my mistake. It did not see the "not" and thought you were claiming it to be the opposite.

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… I'm glad you've finally admitted that islam is not a religion of peace, and is instead, an aggressive, religio/fascist ideology of supremacy and world domination. Thank you.

You posted:

As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also commands them to subdue people of other religions; until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its success in conquering other cultures."

As I've been saying… Islam is NOT a religion of peace. Thanks for giving us this scholar that we can now quote to show other people that Islam is not a religion of peace. It is exactly what we've been saying about it, it is madness. Only madmen say that "violence and bloodshed" are not "inhumane." Only madmen think they have the right to "subdue people of other religions." And only madmen (and madwomen) follow such insanity.

J Stillwater

Sakat says:

in anoyjer dumb fucck idiot . Go and read about Banu Mustaliq dummy before you say there were innocent

keep this mubahila with you and your pig head Mohammed Jesus or Bufda were not political or military leaders . Prophet Muhamed he acted like them when he was in Mecca , but once he became leader he had to take arms and defend his nation
Your breast fed Mohammed is worst then the Atilla the Viking

Muhamed was more than a prophet

You are confused lot ,pass elementary exams in arguments and critical thinking and then come here. If your pig head Mohammed is above Prophet ,what was he "Phosphate" Mohammed .Think about it.

Demsci says:

Correction: I want to let them be opposed and compete and be compared with

OTHER propositions, arguments, claims, opinions. the reader can decide which propositions are the BETTER ones.

Demsci says:

Hello Muslim Man, I find it very interesting what you say. About Ijtihad and that leading to new or better Islamic law.

I want to bring to your attention the following;
In Islam there is the deathpenalty for apostasy. This is forbidding Muslims to get out of the Ummah, the organisation of all Muslims.

But when parties, organisations have "tenets, goals, standards", which are all declared in some sort of central law or document, then that party expects it's members to conform to those tenets, goals, standards.

And if people who call themselves members of that party start saying, and acting upon, different tenets, goals, standards, then, after warning to those dissidents by the leaders of the party, those dissidents will be thrown out of the party.

They will be forbidden to be IN THE PARTY, they can no longer speak in the name of the party. But with Muslims the law is that they are forbidden to be OUT OF THE PARTY.

Can you see that that leads to a "Muslim-party", the Ummah, with many different opinions, unchecked? And that that leads to lack of credibility for Muslims who claim or imply to speak for all Muslims?

J_Stillwater says:

Continued from above…

@Muslim Man… you wrote:

Like you I will also shiver if something like the verse you quoted is read to me. But unlike you, I will try to understand why it is like that. I will investigate the context. Consult with the scholars. Check with people in the street. These are what you may consider doing in order to arrive at a better understanding of the Quran.

JS: That last statement is chock full of fallacies, as are most of the ones that follow it (see below). You're committing the fallacy of "begging the question," because you have assumed many things that are unproven. You assume, by saying "But unlike you…" that I have not tried to understand why it is like that. You also assume I have not investigated the context, consulted with scholars, etc. You also assume that any of these things will lead to a "better understanding of the qur'an." If the "interpretation" of these verses is constantly being changed by "qualified scholars," (as you've already stated), how can I ever have a clear understanding of the qur'an? How can you? How can anyone? Your next paragraph contains so many fallacies I will handle it all fallacy-by-fallacy using bold text for your comments and plain text for my responses.

But you have to do it in an honest manner [Ouch! Begs the question, and is ad hominem… because it assumes I have not done my studies in an "honest manner."] Learn about the Quran and Muslims with no preconceived ideas and suspicion." [Ouch! Begs the question… assumes that I approach my study with "preconceived ideas and suspicion."] such as: "don't expect Muslims to be honest," "Muslims are liars" [The islamic practice of taqia (click here) says muslims are indeed liars, in fact, muslims are encouraged to lie if it suits their strategic goals… people who follow a systematized doctrine of lying, for whatever reason… cannot be expected to be honest… and.. because they are told to practice lying… they are liars… right?]

Muslim Man, you criticized my statement: "Islam is a cult" [ Please look up the definition of the word "cult" and then tell me why islam does not fit that description: "…a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister" – does that description fit what the Quraysh thought of muhammad for 12 years (while all the while he taunted and insulted them and their religion and hurled threats at them like "Hear me, O Quraysh. By Him who holds Muhammad’s life in his hand, I will bring you slaughter.") until he was run out of mecca? (his behavior sounds "sinister" doesn't it?) Some people, have never stopped seeing islam as a cult. I'm one of those people. I don't think anything different about muhammad than the Quraysh did (they thought he was a dangerous madman and islam was a dangerous cult, and they KNEW him personally). So, the view of islam being a cult, has been around since the very first day muhammad stepped forward and condemned his neighbors to hell fire… and this "cult" label just continues until today.] — these are non starters if you want to have a meaningful dialogue [ begs the question… because it assumes I must speak untruths in order to have "meaningful dialogue" and it is a fallacy called "appeal to moderation," which states that a person must bring their ideas and language (and logical reasoning) more and more toward the opponents side in order to appease the opponent into being engaged in the discussion. This is a fallacy.] These are insults [red herring and "appeal to emotion"… just because muslims are insulted by the information I provide, or the things I say, doesn't mean I am intentionally insulting them (the side or "red herring" argument). What I am doing is making very well informed observations (not insults), and from those observations I am making certain conclusions, and then, presenting those conclusions as my reasons for calling muhammad a false prophet and islam false. If muslims are offended, I would suggest they use their allah given logic and show me why my observations are false. If a muslim "insults" me, it is just further proof that they have no logical REASONING to answer my claims and observations… so they will "retaliate" with insults, instead of taking a VERY hard and critical look at their prophet and his islam. ] and the Muslims may consider reciprocating, if they don't have enough patience [muslims insult non-muslims (kafir, infidel, donkeys, apes and swine, etc.) in their qur'an, in their mosques, in their prayers, on the streets in their protests, in their fatwas, in their shariah law, and at the slightest perceived provocation… but thanks for the warning. ]

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

Continued from above…

@Muslim Man…

You then state:

MM: What is happening now is just the opposite. Millions and millions of non-Muslims work and live in Muslim countries. No jizya being applied on them, they just pay taxes as do Muslims. Children of non Muslim families are educated in the same schools as are Muslims children. Occassionally there are tensions, and some of the tensions can be bloody – but these are an exception rather than the norm.

JS: Please post 5 "muslim" countries where this is happening and provide the demographic breakdowns to show us why you have reached the conclusions you stated above. Also, see my commend regarding the worldwide caliphate and shariah law. If a caliphate is ever revived, sharia law, and the jizya (part of shariah law) will also be revived, and it will be a VERY bad day for the people who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in muslim countries.

With regard to your statement: "Occassionally there are tensions…," you appear to not have access to al jazeera or any other major news outlet. These "tensions" are far more than just tensions, and their regularity is far greater than you want to admit. These comments are either extremely naive, or you are practicing that islamic lying (taquia) I mentioned in an earlier post.

Behold the carnage in today's headlines (Muslims fighting, killing, subduing and charging the Jizia… right now… today…):

Jizya coming to Egypt…
http://www.elbashayer.com/news-194250.html
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world…
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world…

Muslims following the qur'an:
http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/worldNews/~3/…
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_03_18/68816821/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-195647…
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_04_29/73325980/
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/03/2012…
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_09_03/Car-bomb-goes-o…
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_09_25/Lutheran-church…
http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/…
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/10/…
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/12/2012…
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_03_26/69677068/
http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_04_06/70864717/
http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20842225#s…
http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/…

Continued below….

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

Continue from above…

@Muslim Man… you wrote above:

MM: Now, you may want to tell me where I can find jizya being practiced in the Muslim world or where Muslims strike the neck of non-Muslims when they meet each other

JS: I have never said that jizya was being practiced. I posted that the qur'an says it should be levied on non-muslims. Muslims are commanded to levy this tax… but, it is not the tax itself that concerns me… it is the INTENT of the tax that I find troubling. The intent of this tax is to show the conquered infidel their place of humiliation and submission, and show that their "muslim masters" are superior and "above" the lowly kafir. Evil is generated from the heart. The humiliation tax is an outward and fascist and supremacist expression of something that is commanded to be happening in the muslim's heart, and that is, seeing the kafir infidel as lower, humiliated. However, now that you've brought it up, there is a very good reason why you don't see this tax being levied on a large scale (Taliban, etc.). The reason this tax is not currently being levied is because it is a part of shariah law. There is no world-wide islamic caliphate and so there are no countries currently practicing shariah law. The goal of the muslim brotherhood is to bring a world-wide caliphate and reinstate shariah law, and Morsi has promised to bring back the jizya (see links below). In fact, his comment made a huge stink, and is still available in the original arabic at one of the links I've posted below. The reason why you see the Jizya being levied against indians in pakistan, by the Taliban, is because they see it as being loyal to what the qur'an teaches them.

Referring to your "strike at their necks at length" comment, you stated:

MM: These are not happening in this modern world, because we Muslims keep learning from and studying the Quran

JS: In fact, these things are INDEED happening in the muslim world, but they are happening with roadside bombs, AK47's, shoulder launched grenades, sniper attacks, acid attacks, poisonings, gang rapes, street brawls, etc. (See the links below). The reason they are happening (unbelievably) in "this modern world" is because verses commanding muslims to "fight the infidel" appear in the qur'an, and your "qualified scholars" have "interpreted" the words "strike at their necks at length" to include striking at their necks, heads, chests, legs, arms, etc., with… bombs, ak47's, improvised explosive devices, shoulder launched grenades, suicide vests, sniper rounds, etc.

continued below…

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… you wrote:

MM wrote: Not even one dot is going to be removed from the Quran. It will remain as it is. However, we Muslims have something called "interpretation" or tafseer, the best of which is a product of ijtihad, which is a rigorous thinking process by qualified scholars – not by just a raw person like myself.

JS: This is the second time you've made the distinction between a "raw person" like yourself, and "qualified scholars." This distinction is obviously deliberate. What you are saying here, is, "Unless a person is a 'qualified scholar' they cannot know what the qur'an means." However, today's "qualified scholars" obviously feel that yesterday's "qualified scholars" didn't get it quite right… Consider this: Where do "qualified scholars" come from? What "qualifies" a qualified scholar? Who qualifies the qualified scholar so that they are "qualified" to change the meaning of verses in your holy qur'an? What are the qualifications of the person who qualified the qualifier to authorize the "qualified scholar" to make changes to the meaning of the holy qur'an? Who qualifies that person, and, in turn, who qualified them? And who qualified that person? Do you see how this is totally circular reasoning? Did they consult you for your consensus on whether or not their qualifications "qualify" them to reinterpret the qur'an for YOU? Did they consult me? Why should you, or I, (or anyone) agree with their rulings? Why should I believe their rulings over those of the past that they are now "qualified" to "reinterpret?" Why should I believe them over what muhammad showed us with is very life and actions? It is all circular reasoning. muhammad is turning in his grave.

Continued below…

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… this will be a response in two parts… please click on my screen name and you can read them both in series (the last response will be listed first)…

I believe there is a sharp distinction between "faithful" and "good." This is because the definition of "faithful" is always the same (i.e. a loyal, constant, and steadfast adherence to a defined set of ideals). However the definition of "good" changes based on who is defining the term.

A faithful muslim is a muslim who does all… all… the things that muhammad practiced and therefore called good (halal). A faithful muslim is a muslim who loyally, constantly and steadfastly follows the teachings of the qur'an and the sunnah (practices) of their prophet…

If a muslim, for example, doesn't fight the kafir, and yet prays the necessary number of times a day, he is not a faithful muslim, because he is disobeying the verses in the qur'an which command muslims to fight non-believers (see Qur'an 9:29). At the same time, if a muslim fights the kafir, but doesn't perform the duty of zakat, he is not a faithful muslim. Or, if a muslim believes in jinns, but doesn't believe that muhammad actually spoke with gabriel, he is not a faithful muslim. If a muslim believes hating the jews, and also sexually violating female captives are both acceptable things… he is a faithful muslim (because muhammad did both of these things). If a muslim bows to mecca to pray, but will not throw stones at an adulterer/adulteress to stone her to death… he is not a faithful muslim (because muslims are commanded to stone the adulterer/adulteress). If a muslim believes someone should be assassinated for speaking against muhammad, and that sex with 9-year-old girls is acceptable, he is a faithful muslim (because muhammad practiced both of these acts).

So, again, with regard to who is a "faithful muslim," I have already pointed out that a "faithful muslim" does "what muhammad does." It is a complete package (see my post regarding the fallacy of "insufficient sample"). In the case of “good” vs “evil,” "good" has a unique definition in islam, because in islam, "good" includes many things (made halal or "good" by muhammad himself) that non-muslims have judged to be evil and reprehensible (i.e. violating the human rights of others, forced enslavement of other human beings, taxing to humiliate, making adoption illegal, ritual animal slaughter, sexual slavery, looting the belongings of others, Jew hating, mass killing, religious wars, revenge killings, political assassinations, child sex, etc., which were all practiced and made "good" by muhammad). Following the unique definition of “good” just given, a “faithful” muslim (completely loyal and obedient to the qur'an) is a “good” muslim.

Continued below

J Stillwater

zitouni says:

zitouni… first, I have checked your claim and I TOTALLY agree with you that whoever wrote that article added words to the end of that quote from Bukhari and I make no excuses for the misrepresentation of Bukhari. it is inexcusable.

If I were you I would reread all Mohameds biography from reliable sources and throw every idea about Mohamed until I finish reading Sira because I proved to you anti Islamic websites cannot be trusted .

Muhammad's deeds stand on their own as a testimony against him without us having to add anything to the story. Let's remove Juwariya from the story for a moment. does it make the accounts you read on that page, the corrected accounts, any less sickening?

You have built up your opinion about Mohamed by reading un reliable account from people who have no shame of changing hadiths .

No. Does the fact that Banu Mustaliq is arab, and not jewish, change the monstrous behavior of your prophet? No.

Read first why Mohamed had to fight that tribe

tribe Banu Mustaliq was preparing to go launch an attack on Madinah, but the Muslims caught wind of their plan and quickly raised a defense force of 700 men who marched forward to the strategic point of Al-Marisa'. The Muslim army then sent a message to Banu Mustaliq to accept Islam, and in doing so abandon their hostilities and continue to live in peace and security in their own land. Instead of accepting this offer Banu Mustalaq declared war and shot one of the Muslim soldiers with an arrow, at which point wild fighting broke out.

allah's "prophet" allowed by having a fire stick twirled into the flesh of his chest until Kinanah "almost expired" in order for muhammad to extract where the treasure was hidden. Ask yourself, why didn't the "all knowing" and "most merciful" allah just tell muhammad where this man hid his treasure so he didn't have to spend his last moments on earth in HORRIBLE AGONY? HELLO??? Not only is muhammad a beast, but allah is obviously NOT all knowing. Another of muhammad's lies. All-knowing beings KNOW where you hide your treasure.

I do not believe this story took place . Ibn Ishaq was not always right when he recorded biography of the prophet . This incident contradicts what mohamed said about tortured with fire .Ibn Abbas said he heard prophet saying do not torture with fire because it is Allah way to torture kafirs in day of judgement . You either hadith was false or Ibn Ishaq was . I will give priority to hadiths than Sira.

Muhammad's rapes have been dealt with at length on other sites, so it is not necessary here to speak of safiya.

No rape took place . I have shown you countless hadiths where prophet recomended the good treatment of prisoners of war so how could he or the rest of Muslims rape captured women
it just does not sense to me

What I will mention here, however, is the fact muslims say muhammad married her right away, without waiting the mandatory and commanded 3 menstruation periods (again muhammad, allah's partner, changed the rules to suit himself). This was a blatant violation by your prophet, of the very command he said he received from allah. Your prophet didn't even obey your prophet, so why should you, and why should I?

Safiya did observe her Iddah because it says when they reached Medina she went to live with an Ansari family and not with Mohamed until her iddah period was over then she moved in with Mohamed

Muslim Man says:

Dear J Stillwater,

Not even one dot is going to be removed from the Quran. It will remain as it is. However, we Muslims have something called "interpretation" or tafseer, the best of which is a product of ijtihad, which is a rigorous thinking process by qualified scholars – not by just a raw person like myself.

The same verse will remain the same, but its interpretation may change. As I stated in my previous response to you, the word "fight" is not necessarily interpreted as "war," it is also being translated as hard work.

Now, you may want to tell me where I can find jizya being practiced in the Muslim world, or where Muslims strike the neck of non-Muslims when they meet each other. These are not happening in this modern world, because we Muslims keep learning from and studying the Quran.

What is happening now is just the opposite. Millions and millions of non-Muslims work and live in Muslim countries. No jizya being applied on them, they just pay taxes as do Muslims. Children of non Muslim families are educated in the same schools as are Muslims children. Occassionally there are tensions, and some of the tensions can be bloody – but these are an exception rather than the norm.

J Stillwater, probably you have understood the verse correctly from the language perspective … I say probably, because I am not well trained in Arabic. But surely your understanding is far from being sufficient. To understand it full well (or better), you have to ask why Muslims are no longer applying jizya on non Muslims? Is this a signal of them leaving the religion? It seems to me you have not asked this question.

Like you I will also shiver if I something like the verse you quoted is read to me. But unlike you, I will try to understand why it is like that. I will investigate the context. Consult with the scholars. Check with people in the street. These are what you may consider doing in order to arrive at a better understanding of the Quran.

But you have to do it in an honest manner. Learn about the Quran and Muslims with no preconceived ideas and suspicion such as: "don't expect Muslims to be honest"' "Muslims are liars" "Islam is a cult" — these are non starters if you want to have a meaningful dialogue. These are insults and the Muslims may consider reciprocating, if they don't have enough patience.

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… your accusation that Muslim Man is actually Mr. Sina, is another of your favorite logical fallacies… it is a fallacy of misdirection called "poisoning the well."

In the "poisoning the well" fallacy, instead of answering the logic of the opponent, you make accusations and create "conspiracy" scenarios that try to get the reader or listener to become distracted from the logic of your opponent. In this case, just the fact that you've used this fallacy is a veiled admission that the logic being offered to Muslim Man in response to his questions and comments, is too powerful for you to counter with your logic, so you must instead "poison the well" and try to get the reader to become distracted by some concocted "conspiracy theory" about Mr. Sina posing as Muslim Man.

What you fail to realize… even if Muslim Man is a made-up visitor… and the comments are not genuine… the answers to the comments ARE genuine… because they ARE coming from real people, and they ARE using clear reasoning.

Again.. what is always important in a discussion is the strength of the reasoning, and not all the little side fallacies you continue to bring into the discussion.

Remember, no matter WHO Muslim Man turns out to be, either a real person, or an invention, it is the ANSWERS to the questions and comments that are important, because ANYBODY can ask the questions, but only those who are on the side of truth can logically answer them.

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

zitouni… first, I have checked your claim and I TOTALLY agree with you that whoever wrote that article added words to the end of that quote from Bukhari and I make no excuses for the misrepresentation of Bukhari. it is inexcusable. Muhammad's deeds stand on their own as a testimony against him without us having to add anything to the story.

Let's remove Juwariya from the story for a moment. does it make the accounts you read on that page, the corrected accounts, any less sickening? No. Does the fact that Banu Mustaliq is arab, and not jewish, change the monstrous behavior of your prophet? No.

allah's "prophet" allowed Al-Zubayr to torture Kinanah by having a fire stick twirled into the flesh of his chest until Kinanah "almost expired" in order for muhammad to extract where the treasure was hidden. Ask yourself, why didn't the "all knowing" and "most merciful" allah just tell muhammad where this man hid his treasure so he didn't have to spend his last moments on earth in HORRIBLE AGONY? HELLO??? Not only is muhammad a beast, but allah is obviously NOT all knowing. Another of muhammad's lies. All-knowing beings KNOW where you hide your treasure.

Muhammad's rapes have been dealt with at length on other sites, so it is not necessary here to speak of safiya. What I will mention here, however, is the fact muslims say muhammad married her right away, without waiting the mandatory and commanded 3 menstruation periods (again muhammad, allah's partner, changed the rules to suit himself). This was a blatant violation by your prophet, of the very command he said he received from allah. Your prophet didn't even obey your prophet, so why should you, and why should I?

J Stillwater

zitouni says:

What kind of doll drum argument you are advancing my dear friend , can the prophet attack innocent people ,

in anoyjer dumb fucck idiot . Go and read about Banu Mustaliq dummy before you say there were innocent

Where is Medina and where was ,Syria ,Persia,turkey ,Spain ,did the people of these countries attacked the then Muslims of Medina.

Dumb fucck . Muslims did not fight people of Syria , Turkey and Spain . They had fight with Byzantine which used to ocupy those countries . Byzantinians started war against Muslim and killed prophet first cousin , prophets adopted son and many Muslims. As Persia did you know dummy that Persians used to ocupy all eastern part of Arabia so Muslims just kicked out from their land , but Persian instead to realise that they were wrong they contrattacked and took what they have lost so Muslims returned , but with different objective is to destroy barbarians regime of Persia and so they did .

Whether Jesus or Buddha attacked any people or order his follower to attack other people.

Jesus or Bufda were not political or military leaders . Prophet Muhamed he acted like them when he was in Mecca , but once he became leader he had to take arms and defend his nation

For our belief prophet mean's saintly person and lives in constant awareness of God conscience,he can't advocate violence ,he sacrifice his own life for his belief ,example,

Dumb fucck. How about Moses was niot he prophet too and what did he do dummy read OT idiot

Socrates ,Saint Peter,Jesus or else his whole life sacrifices for human guidance in non-violence and in self-less service to humans ,like Buddha and Mother Teressa.

Red above

Even your prophet would have claimed himself as barbarian ,history wouldn't have bothered about him ,but his act's were chieftain's of barbarians but want history to remember him as Prophet

I do not think you know the definition of barbarians

,to which he is not eligible even marginally.Lastly l want you to explain us all, what is your definition of the term "Prophet".

Muhamed was more than a prophet

Joe says:

So true Abid,

knowledge vs perception or belief..

the belief that the vioces in Mo's head are anything other than madiness is just a belief..
the belief that the sun sets in a murky pool of water is just a belief which is madiness in todays world
the belief that drinking camels piss is good for you.. jury still out on that one 🙂

Joe says:

Shirk maybe an islamic term, but the concept of making yourself a god is pretty much universal..

there is only one God and that God is our judge.. by your actions you put yourself above God.. fact is we all die and we all face our creator.. I am trying to be as conscious and truthful as possible.. you are on your own 'mystic'? journey

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… look up the fallacy called: "fallacy of insufficient sample." Your post above, along with other posts you've made here commit this fallacy. Here's why:

If you ask me a question about things you do that obey the qur'an, and then ask me if you're "obeying the prophet" it assumes that the small sample of things you've mentioned are "all" that is required to be considered "obeying the prophet." Here's why this is a fallacy: because you and I know, that in order to be considered a person who is "obeying" the prophet, you must be obeying the prophet in the entire set of commands, and not just in a select "sample" of those commands. To obey only a set of the commands, and not all, actually makes you kufar. Here's an example: If you say you don't charge interest, and yet, you also secretly are afraid to fight the infidel, then you are disobeying the prophet, because obedience to the prophet includes all the things which the prophet has commanded you to do. Do you see this distinction?

If you say you do one, or two things out of hundreds that have been commanded by your prophet, and then, try to imply you are being obedient… it may appear you are correct, unless we study the whole set from which this "sample" of commandments is taken. Once we do, we will now have the correct number of commandments, in "addition" to the sample you have given, and only with this complete set of commandments, and a close study of your compliance to them, can we answer the question about your obedience or disobedience to the prophet. I'm waiting for the answer to my question from the earlier post.

J Stillwater

Muslim Man says:

Dear Ali Sina, you said everyone believed … But never has this belief been substantiated. Until now. And actually the world in general did not believe it, as it was shown by the UN investigators.

Now it is quite apparent that you ended up operating on the basis of unsubstantiated belief. And this unproven belief, probably has led to victimization of more than one million innocent souls.

Basically, by saying what you have said you are painting a picture of yourself which looks so similar to the ugly picture of the Prophet you have painted. That ugly picture is basically your picture. But, certainly it is not the picture of the Prophet. Why?

Because the hadith and the sira are replete with praise for honesty and positive track record of the Prophet, which make it extremely difficult for people to believe that the Prophet did heinous things.

The situation is the other way around with regard to the war decision makers. The President was reported that he smoked pot when he was in high school. One of the war male policy makers was involved in extra marital affair with his female staff and gave her an unjustified amount of salary, then he had to step down from his position as president of the world's largest development bank. Just recently, one of the generals has to withdraw from his position as chief of the intelligence body of the US, also because of extra marital affair. As you know, extra marital affair is about cheating. Sorry, this is not about ad hominem attack, but I am sure you can appreciate that the credential of the persons may give us ideas of the kind and quality of decisions they make.

What's your reaction?

Demsci says:

But dismissing-denying-denigrating-debunking opposing views is what YOU do all the time!!!

And want/ intend to do!!! By misusing logical methods, but exempting your own holy texts because THEY are a result of DIVINE intervention!

Remember; You said that it the Buraq-story was perfectly possible, but whenever Ali Sina makes a much less extraordinary claim, you are all over him, like a cheap suit!

Sakat says:

What kind of doll drum argument you are advancing my dear friend , can the prophet attack innocent people ,even Chengez Khan used to give warning before attacking his enemy, off course he was not the prophet.Where is Medina and where was ,Syria ,Persia,turkey ,Spain ,did the people of these countries attacked the then Muslims of Medina.Whether Jesus or Buddha attacked any people or order his follower to attack other people. For our belief prophet mean's saintly person and lives in constant awareness of God conscience,he can't advocate violence ,he sacrifice his own life for his belief ,example,Socrates ,Saint Peter,Jesus or else his whole life sacrifices for human guidance in non-violence and in self-less service to humans ,like Buddha and Mother Teressa. Even your prophet would have claimed himself as barbarian ,history wouldn't have bothered about him ,but his act's were chieftain's of barbarians but want history to remember him as Prophet ,to which he is not eligible even marginally.Lastly l want you to explain us all, what is your definition of the term "Prophet".

Joe says:

@zitouni

proof? what is war in Lybia, yemen, mali, danfur, afghanistan, somalia, egypt, iraq, phillipines, burma, thaitland, nigeria, achia and too many countries to list..ALL MUSLIM.. DERR and you want proof? does your mumy wipe your bum for you too?

Muslim Man says:

Dear Ali Sina, I suggest you experience zakat yourself. Consider having first hand experience. You will be amazed to observe those people who live just a little above the poverty line go to the mosque to pay their alms. I do not deny there are cases where zakat or sadaqah money embezzled by the committee, but I am confident that this represents a negligible proportion.

You really have to experience Islam. Why? Because your cause is to destroy Islam, which is very dangerous, and you also have ideas of sending Muslims to the stone age by bombing them, i.e. by killing them. You are like saying that you want to save the world by destroying one-third of humanity. You feel you are smart. The people whom you call terrorist also feel they are smart. Yet your ideas and their ideas are dangerous ideas, both for humanity and for both of you. I am taking this very seriously.

If you are a US citizen, you have all the opportunities to travel the world. Don't just stay in your library studying sirah, hadith and Quran. Go to and live with the Muslims, especially with the poorest of them. You speak Persian, then you can go Afghanistan, to Tajikistan – if you don't want to visit Iran. Since you speak English, go to Malaysia, go to Indonesia — and see and feel for yourself how Muslims in these countries live peacefully and many if not most of them believe that they are beginning to practice Islam in their lives. Consider Turkey as well. Come to these communities with no preconceived ideas, with no prejudice. Meet and talk with local scholars and people in the street.

Please do not consider this post as ad hominem attack. I am just giving you a suggestion hoping that you will consider revising the way you look at Muslims and Islam. Why? Because you have a dangerous idea.

Sakat says:

This is genuine thinking on the part of that girl,perhaps she may be Newton's niece in her earlier incarnation.

CGW says:

Muslims slaughtered 80 million Hindus in the conquest of India:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindu…

Muslim Man says:

Dear Ali Sina, based on your info I can conclude that in fact there has never been WMD — neither in Iraq nor in Syria. I remember watching TV showing a UN investigator saying in a very diplomatic way that no WMD was found in Iraq. The world was well informed about this. Yet the invasion took place. What's your take on this?

Muslim Man says:

Dear Ali Sina, so you also wanted to bomb and eliminate Muslims physically? I am sure you know that it will involve killing children and other innocent civilians. You have been saying that your quest is to destroy Islam, which has nothing to do with Muslim. Now you also want to kill Muslims. I thought you were a peaceful person ……

aminthemystic says:

Another opening.

aminthemystic says:

"We don't know at what time Saddam decided to ship his WMD to Syria."

It is NOT known whether Saddam had them or not.

About EVERY major nation on Earth has WMDs.

Think about it. . . it is NOT that hard to develop them.

One guess who probably has most? And has in the past caused the most number of death by their use . . . .!

– – –

"The fact is that they are not in Syria and this is one of the major sources of concern for the world who wants Asad go away but fear that those WMD fall in the hands of the al Qaida. "

He contradicts himself.

Earlier he said – Assad had them.

Now it is a fact he doesn't?

– – –

It is all going downhill!

aminthemystic says:

"Just Google Poverty in Iran and see what you find. "

"It is a fact. Just Google Poverty in Iran and see"

Huh? Really?

No WONDER your disciples advocate this . . . If the master is at it.

Why doesn't all academia just stop. . . "Oh, I believe in in a diamond shaped Earth"

Proof?

Just Google and see.

– – –

This is how your book and posts here come about . . . badly researched on the net. Actual resources never checked.

Next post about your blog.

This is why I pointed out. . . you create the impression of these reports . . . . quick Google.

Exact same quote is used by others . . . same this you copy and paste.

Deception? Yes.

– – –

And four year old NEWSPAPER reports. . . then don't CUT it.

– – –

About 46.2million were living in poverty in USA

http://news.yahoo.com/revised-govt-formula-shows-…

– – –

Now THINK! for a minute the stupidity of making such simplistic argument.

aminthemystic says:

"Yes, to raise the poor children to become brain dead jihadi. There is no selfless charity in Islam. If Islam does not benefit, no dime will be spent. "

See the lies!

This will continue – this rabid and dogmatic stance.

He admits it.

It doesn't actually matter to him . . .whether he is wrong or not.

Whether he does this:

""Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!" "

Deliberate lie about someone to undermine them.

He knows it is a lie . . . and he cannot answer for it.

Dirtiest and the most absurd trick in the book! But it doesn't work.

– – –

If anyone is actually interested. Boys are RAISED as Muslims – however these people do not part-take in such "Jihads"

– – –

If he had BOTHERED to read . . .this particular charity actually DOES help non-Muslims.

For example paying for marriages of Hindus and Christians.

But of course . . . future converts!

By this token . . . point to me ONE act of charity that can be described as self-less.

aminthemystic says:

This is why I suspect "Muslim Man" to be a fraud. He creates these perfect openings for Sina.

Who then comes to write his spiel.

– – –

"Apparently the information about Saddam sending his WMD to Syria is being discovered now. Now that Asad is about to fall the world is realizing he possesses a large quantity of WMD which may fall in the had of al Qaida. How did Asad obtain those weapons? There is only one way. He got them from Saddam."

See this is BADLY thought out . .. no references no nothing. Just poor speculations.

Here is why.

How did Saddam get his WMD?

1. He devloped them.

2. He was sold to by West.

Truth is probably both. He was given huge amount of armory. And he did develop his own.

But so was Assad . . .

He has been acquiring arms from China and mainly Russia. Some from France.

He too can develop his own.

– – –

So why ONLY Saddam is his source?

Guess what is LIKELY to happen.

No one will EVER know.

– – –

"It makes perfect sense that Saddam may have trucked his WMD to Syria a couple weeks before the invasion and during the time the UN was pressing him to let them inspect everywhere. "

And Our Bastard didn't use them on USA. See – how quaint and sensible!

– – –

"We all know Saddam had WMD. "

Do we. . .

– – –

"He used them against the Kurds after the first war, when he was forced to retreat from Kuwait."

See how he repeats the lie . . . !

Kurds were gassed – but the full knowledge and er . . . permissibility of West – West conveniently looked away . . .as Saddam was fighting Iran.

Kurdish Workers Party was successfully declared to be terrorists!

– – –

"Remember that he also sent his plains to Iran for safe keeping, which the Iranians never returned. "

Obviously NOT – as he had been fighting them for years . . .

– – –

Sina once more repeats his old tale . . . AGAIN.

He in UNABLE to discuss. . . . but repeat the lies for his new Masters.

Hence why he is sell out.

– – –

When he cannot answer – is ROUNDLY "HUMILIATED"

what does he . . .
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/22/imam-husseins-…

"Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

Oldest and the worst trick in the book.

False accusations against you opponents!

aminthemystic says:

This the reason why I believe you to be Sina's creation. From Post 1.

– – –

"Dear Ali Sina, sorry I combined zakat and sadaqah. Yes, there are orphanages built with money from sadaqah."

See Zakah is limited to 8 categories:

Those living in absolute poverty (Al-Fuqarā')

Those who were restrained because they cannot meet their basic needs (Al-Masākīn)

The zakat collectors themselves (Al-Āmilīna 'Alaihā)

Non-Muslims who are sympathetic to Islam or wish to convert to Islam.(Al-Mu'allafatu Qulūbuhum)

People whom one is attempting to free from slavery or bondage. Also includes paying ransom or blood money (Diyya). (Fir-Riqāb)

Those who have incurred overwhelming debts while attempting to satisfy their basic needs (Al-Ghārimīn)

Those working in God's way (Fī Sabīlillāh)

Children of the street / Travellers (Ibnus-Sabīl)

Wiki

Where Sadaqah isn't limited to these 8. And is General Charity

– – –

Is er . . . an eventual conversion in the offing?

– – –

Straight after your post . . . .Sina was welcoming you! Here is another suspect lies . . . whose story doesn't add up.
http://liberatednow.blogspot.co.uk/

Muslim Man says:

Dear Ali Sina, sorry I combined zakat and sadaqah. Yes, there are orphanages built with money from sadaqah. Increasingly in many Muslim countries these two resources are being managed more properly in order to put them into better use. Awqaf is another potential source of wealth creation to build the prosperity of Muslims. Non Muslims are also welcome to benefit. Some Muslim countries already have laws which regulate the collection and use of zakat, sadaqah and waqf.

I am not sure if terrorist activities have been supported by zakat money. But that possibility does exist, and the law and regulation may play a preventative role.

Without looking at the links, I agree with you there are people who based their atrocities on the Quran. But we Muslims consider them to be misguided. There are other possible interpretations of the verses – had they consulted with other scholars.

Coming back to zakat — I really have to reconfirm that your experience regarding the use of zakat money in your former community is different from that in mine. I hope that is not really your experience, but only an allegation that you make which will require an investigation to prove it.

aminthemystic says:

"
Are you sure? Can you name a few orphanages and hospitals built with the zakat money?"

Yes Aghosh – In Pakistan.
http://www.minhajwelfare.org/?page_id=27

Just one example.

– – –

"The Zakat money is used to build mosques, madrassaha and finance Islamic propaganda, such as publishing the Quran and giving it for free to the very people who supposedly are filthy and must not touch it. Talk about the hypocrisy. "

No it isn't. This is YOU lying outright.

Zakah – is for SPECIFIC purposes. See you tend to repeat lies.

This lie was challenged previously

You could not defend it.

You hate and lying is SICKENING. Any decent "human" will be sickened to the pit of their stomachs.

– – –

"When they came to power, the poor was forgotten, Instead they started pouring a lot of money to Lebanon to finance Hizbullah and they spend it on the poor to sweeten Islam in their mouth. "

Baseless lies.

– – –

"There is no real charity in Islam but there is a lot of hypocrisy. Any time the poor is helped it is never out of kindness but there is always a string attached to it. "

Another meaningless rant. Nothing but his sick mind.

That will build lies about individual Muslims here . . . AND Muslims as whole.

Look here:

"Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

– – –

aminthemystic says:

Where do you think. Living.

Or do you want me dead?

zitouni says:

Joe said : you cannot deny that quran justifies the taking of captives
and you cannot deny that quran justifies sex with slaves
and you cannot deny that Mohammad had slaves and had sex with his slaves
YOU WANT TO BE LIKE MOHAMMAD!! Deny that!!

Prophet did that because it was norm of the day to do . Scholars are saying no Muslim can do becasue we have exchange of war prisoners

here is a link to a man that was captured as a child in suddan and His experience in Suddan.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSEJyVyUGoA

This is just propaganda video. There is no way I can verify that this guy is saying the truth . Plus what Muslims do is not neccesary get it from Islam, You have to shiow where islam advocate of killing innocent people.

and here is a activist in Kuwait that argues for slave agencies and justifies them according to Islamic law https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcpKisAsNM

I have already said that scholars say that you can no longer do that . what this woman is saying is wrong and she is not scholar in Islam in order for you to use her as proof

zitouni says:

aminthemystic said : I am surprised you give go as far as saying his Arabic language is elementary. I have NOT seen any evidence to suggest it is!

I was wrong about that . The fact of matter is that he does not know Arabic at all .

Abid says:

I found many many misleading and fabricated miracles about Islam and Quran, as I continued verification. I am still finding such deceptions. I would request you to verify everything, do not go blindly. There is no miracle in Islam and Quran. Honestly speaking, don’t mind, I found Quran is worst nonsense I have ever read. Repetition, sudden end of event or stories, incomplete information and lots more. Quran never implies anything but people infer what they want to infer from this vague, incomplete nonsense book. __There is ample of events of Muhammad’s atrocious, lustful, inhuman deeds in Hadiths and Sira, even in Quran. I completely deny that Muhammad was a God’s Man. As far as belief in God is concerned, I don’t believe in any merciful, omnipotent, personal God who will account for our deeds on earth. Mainly because of problem of evils. Still my position is of an agnostic. I am an ardent fan of Bertrand Russell and Ali Sina. I think Sina is the Russell of 21st century. You must read Russell. __With lot of good wishes:__Abid

Abid says:

Since my early childhood days I had few questions in my mind which Islam and Christianity claims. Like, nothing happens without the will of God still we are punished and rewarded as per our deeds in afterlife. Afterlife is infinite, without end, Satan was condemned for his disobedience to God & was thrown in earth and he decided to mislead people, I used to think Why would we be punished for his evil act of misdirecting, why God is not stopping him from doing such a charade, why would we be punished for the disobedience of Adam & Eve. These are very simple nonsense which every child with a normal brain could understand.

I'm no Almighty says:

Where is the proof for your allegations againest Sina. You are a Die-hard Religionist. You close eyes to reality, then how you can see it.

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… You stated: "I know that slaughtering people who disagree with you is bad." muhammad slaughtered people for disagreeing with him… by the thousands (and said it was allah's idea)… and the qur'an teaches muslims to fight and kill unbelievers… are you willing to admit that muhammad did "bad" things and that allah in the qur'an commands "bad" things? If so, why are you a muslim?

Also… it would be most accurate to state that "SOME muslims MAY disobey the qur'an and behave peacefully," since the "NORM" set by the qur'an is to FIGHT. The NORM is not to be peaceful to non-believers… the norm for "muslims" (all muslims) is to fight them.

J Stillwater

Joe says:

@aminthe

you quote the book of Deuteronomy which is in the old testament.. that is a book that Jesus criticised and was crucified for.. regardless is this the best you can do? you justify the violence in your own text with the violence in a jewish text..

Tell me one place that offers the words of Jesus? the two greatest laws of God:
1/ Love God with you heart and soul and mind
2/ Love they neighbor as jesus taught us.. infact we should also love our enemy.. Jesus teaches that we should do everything to settle our differences before we stand before God.. God is the judge not your quran or your mohammad or you.. just get over it

Muslim Man says:

Dear infidel/kafir, your experience about Islam is different from mine. Maybe this is because we have approached it from different directions. I read the Quran and find it beautiful that its being evil is impossible. You read the Quran and conclude it is evil that it is impossible for it to contain any goodness. I have no problem with your conclusion. What matters is how much good deed we deliver to humankind —let us compete in this aspect of life.

Muslim Man says:

Dear J Stillwater,

I know that slaughtering people who disagree with you is bad. And you said that Muslims will continue to slaughter those who disagree with them. And you said that you don't have a notion that all Muslim is bad. I appreciate this.

If that is the case, in future posts you may want to consider qualifying your statement about Muslims. For example, rather than saying "Muslims will continue to slaughter … " probably you can say "some Muslims will continue to slaughter … " . Perhaps I may also suggest the use of "may" rather than "will" because nobody knows what really will happen in the future. This does not mean your statement is agreeable to me.

aminthemystic says:

"9:5, Then fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, "

Yet 9:6 says . . . .

"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

Quran 9:6

aminthemystic says:

"Oh really . I have not seen you attacking your slave master when they kill innocent Muslims because you love it "

He get around this by saying all Muslims are guilty – and HE does promote VIOLENCE.

"If I were the president of the USA I would have bombed Afghanistan and Iraq back to stone age and left them alone. "
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/07/what-happened-…

zitouni says:

Ali sina said : I get my facts from the Quran and hadith. But thank you for the offer.

You have never read koran in your life because you canot read Arabic LOL

zitouni says:

Ali Sina said : On the contrary. We don't demonize Muslims. We explain that Muslims do evil things when they are under the spell of Islam.

I do not know what is evil thing for you . If Muslims are fighting your white slave master because he ocupies and kill Muslims to you it is an evil thing . Your view is that Muslims should accept him as his slave master like you did otherwise they are savage

Ali Sina said :The enemy is an ideology of deception and lies that reduces good people into monsters and terrorists.
The deception and lies are your ways , but do not worry I will be all the time here to expose them to people who are interested in knowing the truth

Ali Sina said :In other words we explain that the reason Muslims are acting like this is because of the disease that they have, i.e. Islam.

They are acting like this becasue of your slave master who does not want to stay in his back yard . Vietnamese fought you master , will you say that they did that because they got the idea from Islam ¿

Ali Sina said :It is this disease that has to be eliminated so the patients can be set free.

The one who are sick is your slave master. Imagine you broke into my house and when I asked to leave you beat and killed my family and during the fight you get injured and when the police arrived you started complaining that I injured you , do you think police are going to listen your story NO they are going to tell you you are not supposed to be in the first place and you have no righ inside this mans house and he has the right to do whatever he wants to you if you refused to leave and they will hangcuff you and take you to jail .

Ali Sina said : You don't see us promoting violence against Muslims.

Oh really . I have not seen you attacking your slave master when they kill innocent Muslims because you love it

aminthemystic says:

"Your comments are consistently accusing Ali Sina of hateful behviour against muslims. "

Yes. They are. But NOT behaviour – WORDS. There is a difference. I don't know what he does.

– – –

"Ali Sina is offering His opinion based on references found in books that you claim are holy and the word of God.. "

Sometimes. But that is NOT what I term as hateful.

– – –

"Are your books holy and divine? If so how can you then deny what is written about mohammad? Mohammad actually executed people.. That is HATEFUL…. Surely! "

Muslims consider Quran to be divine. Not the Hadith Corpus.

– –

"Your quran claims that the kufar is vile and will burn in hell fire.. how hateful is that? "

Where – please use examples. I cannot answer what you think the Quran is saying. To be EXACT . . . just use proper reference. . . then I will answer.

quran.com

– – –

"all the evidence i have seen now shows that Mohammad just killed people that did not believe him.. and this is what we are seeing played out on the world stage .. over and over again.. "

Which isn't true. So how many Muslim nations are at War with non-Muslim nations?

In which it was the Muslim nation that attacked the non-Muslim nation?

– – –

"Do we look at the world and ask why is this happening? "

Why don't you point to some EXAMPLES that are exact. . .

Then we know what YOU are talking about.

– – –

This vagueness. . . and generalities . . . it leads to untruth.

I don't play these games.

Joe says:

@aminthemystic,

sorry that i am sometime childish.. the reason i did it was because your name claims to be mystic, but what exactly is mystical in your claims.. It seems that are just in denial.. hence the name..

Your comments are consistently accusing Ali Sina of hateful behviour against muslims.

Ali Sina is offering His opinion based on references found in books that you claim are holy and the word of God..

Are your books holy and divine? If so how can you then deny what is written about mohammad? Mohammad actually executed people.. That is HATEFUL…. Surely!

Your quran claims that the kufar is vile and will burn in hell fire.. how hateful is that?

Jesus and Buddha and other prophets talk about our own personal journey and how we have to earn our rights..

all the evidence i have seen now shows that Mohammad just killed people that did not believe him.. and this is what we are seeing played out on the world stage .. over and over again..

Do we look at the world and ask why is this happening?

Muslim Man says:

Dear J Stillwater, regarding the killing of vaccine worker, you said …"this is madness …" I cannot agree more. But that is because these people just do not understand the use of vaccine, and they believe that the use of it will destroy their religion. They need some more education from people who understand. Perhaps you know that television was still considered haram in some Muslim countries in 1950s. But this has changed now. Family planning was considered haram even in the seventies. But this has changed now. I hope you also know that there is a global effort to codify Islamic law, which, in my iew, is progressing well. The codification effort also includes reconsideration of some halal/haram issues. There are still discrepancies and differences here and there, but the scholars are working hard to address them. If you a chance to observe one of the discussions in the fiqh forums, you will be amazed by these scholars consulting with experts from various scientific disciplines before they arrive at a ruling or a fatwa. Yet all of them are referring to Quran and hadith as their sources of value and inspiration as well as the basis of their opinion.

One of the unique feature of Islam is that the injunctions of its holy book, i.e. the Quran, is something that has to be translated into actions through rigorous ijtihad process (kindly refer to my previous response to you where I explained the meaning of ijtihad). The interpretation of Quran, therefore, evolves from time to time.

So, again, to me this is progress. This is the emergence of Islamic civilization. You may have a different opinion, of course.

aminthemystic says:

I believe "Muslim Man" to be Sina. I have said it from th 1st post of his post.

Joe says:

@aminthe denier.

what is your point? you are all over the place with no specific or clear arguement.

Hateful? Surely the actions of Mohammad who slaughtered people, who made people slaves, who tortured people are what? THESE ACTIONS ARE HATEFUL, BARBARIC and SHIRK..

Why is revealing the truth hateful? It must be the truth because there are so many muslims that openly say that Mohammad is a general and that captives are the rights of muslims..

Muslim Man says:

Dear J Stillwater, thanks for the various clarification. And I am sorry if my asking you to be balanced was considered to be an ad hominem attack. Sorry about that.

Now, if I may paraphrase, your definition of a faithful Muslim is one who follows Muhammad's examples. And these examples are limited to those evil acts such as killing, sex slaving, plundering, and the likes. If a Muslim does a beneficial act, even if it is instructed by Muhammad and he refers to Muhammad's instruction in doing it, he is not a good Muslim. If a Muslim does not kill, does not sex slave, does not plunder, he is not a good Muslim.

Does my paraphrasing reflect your understanding representatively? Please correct me if I am wrong.

aminthemystic says:

"It is not a coincidence that in Mathnavi, Rumi attacks all thinkers"

Actually he doesn't. And NOT all Philosophers either.

Atheists? Doh!

– – –

" it was the Ash’ariyya who ended such scientific observations by declaring people are black because God created them as such."

Actually this is NOT true. . .

As Fakhr Uddin Razi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakhr_al-Din_al-Razi

Was a big gun Ashari

He was not against either Khaldun's view or Science.

Another was Amidi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayf_al_Din_al_Amidi

And these are the people that developed Ashari/Shafi school of thought.

– – –

One interesting point.

Sina probably has NOT read this article.

Because – search for it on the Internet. . . you will these quotes.

But look at the impression!

This is why I said. . .

If you look at this person's learning . . . .it is ASTOUNDINGLY poor.

– – –

Hence why his book is such a massive reject. Even by his supporters.

I tried to press J_Stilwater to take up the cause for example. . . it appeared he actually hadn't read Sina's work.

And was simply here to condemn hate. Darkness gathering darkness.

aminthemystic says:

When he cannot cope with Muslim being good people, scientist and etc . . . this is just another line of lies. Nothing more.

The proof is in his . . . inability to go any further then these over-simplistic statements.

Not only has he NEVER read their work . . . i even doubt he has read anything about them other than few pages on the Internet.

– – –

As I pointed out – before he had his personal attacks . . .

– – –

He doesn't need or rely on evidence or proof.

When pressed – he does NOT answer – simply moves on. . .

And this works. . . as those visiting and commenting –
are NOT looking for truth.

But just to condemn Islam. And that is it.

– – –

This is REGULARLY highlighted.

When you press people on holding up to Western Standards of Enlightenment . . .

Ah . . . .then you have excuses.

Either Demsci – trying to Justify personal abuse – whilst maintain he is against it!

Or that he holds giving evidence to be true and proper thing to do. . . but not doing

And etc. . .

See – Sina is the same.

Hence why this darkness gathers darkness.

– – –

aminthemystic says:

Wow – what an intelligent comment.

Getting PERSONAL now isn't.

Like I said – you are a hate-monger.

– – – –

This site isn't about telling the truth about Islam . . .But the EXACT opposite.

– – –

You are ROUNDLY beaten in argument . . .

what do you do?

Get down and personal . . . .

"Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"

So are you going answer?

Joe says:

@Slave

Islam is SHIRK … Some self proclaimed writings that were invented by Mohammad..

You say muslims are the best.. you are Shirk..

Surely it is God that decides and God has decided since the bgining of time.. long before the quran and without your quran..

Submit to God first and what God has created..

you are shirk submiting to mohammad

aminthemystic says:

"Ali Sina has risked his life and he answers the call of the millions of ancestors that have brutialized by islam and they call for justice.. "

No he hasn't. NOT ONCE. . . .

When he is beaten this is what he does:
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/12/22/imam-husseins-…

– – –

"Yes of course! That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings. Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings! The writings of Rainbow, Zeitouni, Ali (the sinner) and every one of you Muslims. "

– – –

See the lies and hate . . . . specif and PERSONAL hate . . .

Now do you have an answer?

– – –

What brother and sisters?

He is NOTHING more than consumed with hate.

How many evidences of this will you ignore?

Joe says:

Ali Sina has risked his life to help educate his brothers and sisters that suffer because of islam.

Ali Sina has risked his life and he answers the call of the millions of ancestors that have brutialized by islam and they call for justice..

how many souls scream of for justice.. BAN ISLAM

aminthemystic says:

We were discussing how the Islam relates to meanings of Peace.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-…

Here is of this site says:

"The Myth:

Lesser educated Muslims sometimes claim that the root word of Islam is “al-Salaam,” which is “peace” in Arabic.

The Truth:

An Arabic word only has one root. The root word for Islam is “al-Silm,” which means “submission” or “surrender.” There is no disagreement about this among Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word.

Submission and peace can be very different concepts, even if a form of peace is often brought about through forcing others into submission. As the modern-day Islamic scholar, Ibrahim Sulaiman, puts it, "Jihad is not inhumane, despite its necessary violence and bloodshed, its ultimate desire is peace which is protected and enhanced by the rule of law."

In truth, the Quran not only calls Muslims to submit to Allah, it also commands them to subdue people of other religions until they are in a full state of submission to Islamic rule. This has inspired the aggressive history of Islam and its success in conquering other cultures."

– – –

"An Arabic word only has one root."

Yes . . . but when you get into technicality of it – this is NOT how it is. . .especially when the next sentence is:

"The root word for Islam is “al-Silm,” which means “submission” or “surrender.” "

No it isn't. The three letter root is S-LM

س ل م

Pronounced: SaLiMa

It relates to 2 verbal nouns – which most grammarians hold to be the source of this word they are:

Salam and Salamah

سلام سلامة

What they mention "al-Silm" is more a derivative rather than the root.

Second:

al-Silm – means Peace. And not "Surrender" and "Submission".

Reference:
http://www.tyndalearchive.com/tabs/lane/

– – –

"There is no disagreement about this among Islamic scholars. al-Silm (submission) does not mean the same thing as al-Salaam (peace), otherwise they would be the same word. "

This is a COMPLETE lie. What scholars?

I have tried asking. No reply.

The logic that:

"otherwise they would be the same word. "

Is poor.

You can have 2 different word or more meaning the same thing.

– – –

Now – YOU do not have to believe my word over theirs.

Go and research this.

In this case I know I am right.

I have research and looked into it.

– – –

Lane's Lexicon highlighted above is a good source. As it is from Classical Arabic lexicons.

aminthemystic says:

"If you encounter information is critical of what you believe, it is normal to see it as anti or propaganda. "

Sure . . . however Sites like religionofpeace ARE propaganda.

One cannot say the same thing about Wiki – even though anyone can make changes to it. It is the policy – they are NOT about being either anti- or pro- something.

Religionopeace IS biased. It is owned by Fundamentalist Christians. That is their perspective.

Their IS nothing wrong with that per se. . . . however how these site are USED & UNDERSTOOD is different from site like Wiki or any other encyclopedia.

Stat from relgionofpeace are different than say UN Stats. . .

– – –

"First, it is very unusual for people who are IN a religious movement, to be critical of it… and so, you will almost NEVER get an unbiased view from them"

OBVIOUSLY NOT!

Why would you be critical of something that you believe in . . . . ? Just fro the sake of being critical?

That is NOT a state in which one could live – contently.

– – –

"Second, it is NORMAL for people INSIDE a religious movement to call any information critical of their religion BIASED. "

I have explained the difference. Just see above.

– – –

" Third, just because someone from INSIDE the religious movement calls information critical of their religion BIASED, doesn't mean it IS biased. "

Sure – I agree.

– – –

"Fourth, information that is critical to a religious movement isn't automatically "NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA." If the information IS negative, one must then ask if the information is accurate, not what is the motivation behind the person bringing the information. "

Sure – I agree again.

– – –

"Consider a man wants to sleep with my wife… he comes to me and says: "I saw your wife making out with the milk man." Even though his intention is to get me to divorce my wife so he can have her, his information may be valid. What matters is the truth of the information, and NOT the intentions of the bearer of that information. "

Sure . . . however . . . . say that you KNOW this man is your enemy . . . then you would instantly be cautious then say if this person was your friend or family.

You would still seek the truth . . . .but your reaction and actions would be very different.

– – –

"the site: thereligionofpeace.com is a site who reports on atrocities committed on a daily basis by muslims. Remember, if muslims didn't say they were a religion of peace, that site wouldn't exist."

Wrong!

The site is by Christian Fundamentalists.

It contains MANY information that is DELIBERATELY wrong.

I am giving you an example in a separate post below.

– – –

"If muslims were honest, and truthfully stated to the world that they are a religion of slaughter, intolerance and oppression, they wouldn't need to worry about sites being critical of them. "

Ha ha . . . do you NEED me to point out which logical fallacy this is . . . .

You presuppose your answer.

Islam ISN'T what you claim. That is simply your opinion. And that is it. My opinion is the opposite.

– – –

This is why people like you are brainwashed.

You have ONLY read sites like these.

Hence when referencing – you mainly go to them . . .

Then when it is RIGHTLY pointed out . . . such and such site is Biased.

Then you have to start making excuses.

Look at what you claim above.

Then below – you do the opposite.

Isn't that dishonest!

You set the standard – and you fall by it too.

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… If you encounter information is critical of what you believe, it is normal to see it as anti or propaganda.

Here's why: First, it is very unusual for people who are IN a religious movement, to be critical of it… and so, you will almost NEVER get an unbiased view from them (so you must look elsewhere). Second, it is NORMAL for people INSIDE a religious movement to call any information critical of their religion BIASED. Third, just because someone from INSIDE the religious movement calls information critical of their religion BIASED, doesn't mean it IS biased. Fourth, information that is critical to a religious movement isn't automatically "NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA." If the information IS negative, one must then ask if the information is accurate, not what is the motivation behind the person bringing the information.

Consider a man wants to sleep with my wife… he comes to me and says: "I saw your wife making out with the milk man." Even though his intention is to get me to divorce my wife so he can have her, his information may be valid. What matters is the truth of the information, and NOT the intentions of the bearer of that information.

the site: thereligionofpeace.com is a site who reports on atrocities committed on a daily basis by muslims. Remember, if muslims didn't say they were a religion of peace, that site wouldn't exist. If muslims were honest, and truthfully stated to the world that they are a religion of slaughter, intolerance and oppression, they wouldn't need to worry about sites being critical of them.

J Stillwater

Muslim Man says:

Dear Ali Sina, you have found Quran and hadith teaching violence. What is your position regarding the other parts of Quran and hadith which instructed pople to do good?

zitouni says:

Infidel kafir said : I see that you are a real JIHADIST ,

Yes I am and so is liar Ali Sina he is too Jihadist of falsehood

Infidel kafir said : and you are shivering , knowing that this Moslem man will leave ISLAM and desert it, if he reads Dr. ALI SINA's book or get real truth and knowledge

Ali the liar got no knowledge he is not scholar of anything about islam. The liar has zero crendiels on Islam and I have proved it here in this forum . What he write about islam is bunch of crap LOL

Infidel kafir said : after reading the articles in this web site. This is expected . ISLAM lives by fear and death . ISLAM survives in darkness and ignorance. Knowledge & Light will dispel and destroy ISLAM ..

Where did I threaten the mans life I just warned him to stay away from this liar and ignorant mossad and CIA agents thats all . If he wants to know fact about Islam he can ask me becasue I can be teacher of liar Ali Sina

aminthemystic says:

" here is an outline of islamic civilization from Washington State University."

This is what I point out . . . dishonesty.

The page actually open at:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Histo…

And their source link doesn't open.

– – –

"What I call your attention to is the fact that violence and strife and bloodshed has been a part of islamic history"

Every single Civilization on Earth has similar history.

The trick is in . . .

"here is an outline of islamic civilization"

Such generalities do not equal what sum of Muslim Civilization is and was.

– – –

" long before there were "westerners" who the blame could be laid upon by muslims "

Which is no excuse for the West for its past and violence.

– – –

" muslims afraid to look their demons in the face. "

What demons?

J_Stillwater says:

@zitouni… let's go back in time… back before there were "white men" who wanted to "subjugate" muslims…

Let's just go back to the time of muhammad… forget the "white man" for a moment… let's go back… back in time… 500 years… going back… 1000 years… still further back… 1400 years… back before muslims stormed Uthman's house and assassinated him… back before ali was assassinated by a muslim… back before the slaughter that resulted during the time of the Qays and the Kalb tribes… before the Abassids, back to muhammad… and back to three particular events:

1. the Massacre of Banu Quraiza
2. the Massacre of Khaybar
3. the Massacre of Banu Mustaliq

Now… let's imagine we are simply looking at a man and trying to determine whether this man is an exemplary model to follow. Let's imagine we are just looking for someone we can look to for teachings in moral goodness and spiritual righteousness… let's forget the old man that muhammad had assassinated… and the nursing mother… and the old woman torn in half by two camels… let's forget them for a moment… and just look at muhammad's behavior after the above three battles… Oh… and let's consult islamic histories and the qur'an references that confirm those histories… CLICK HERE (opens in new page), read the page, and then, come back and tell me why you are not sickened by what you read, and why you believe I should follow this man and believe he is a divine prophet from god, instead of hating him with every fiber of my being.

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

"(see "thereligionofpeace.com" for the latest muslim body count). "

A site dedicated to anti Islam propaganda. It is READ as such. And doesn't equal to independent stats . . .

When you are REPEATEDLY only able to bring biased sites . . . this shows YOUR brainwashing.

As I previously alluded – objective studies lead to "truth" or at least more authoritative version . . .

For example . . . when compared to killings by West . . . the numbers stack in favour of Muslims.

We are STILL far more "peaceful"

– – –

And Muslims ARE the most peaceful of people.

Especially compared to the death toll of West and its offspring.

Just at the turn of the century WW1 and 2 body count is shocking.

Add that to the European colonial adventures . . . .

What peace?

– – –

" This is because in islam, there is the Dar al salam, and the Dar al harb (house of war). In other words, inside islam is peace… outside is jihad. "

Sure . . . BUT who doesn't have similar concept?

Inside West there is peace . . . . outside they are involved with many Wars.

Sina was pathetically waving USA stats about very proudly a week or so ago. . .

So that is peace to you?

At least Bush was somewhat honest – either you are with us or against us . . .

Imperialism, Colonialism . . . .Enforcement . . . In other words . . . there is only one way.

᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

Abid its good to see that now you are not abusing based on your conclusions which disturb fellow Muslims intellectually, emotionally ! You can comfortably raise question which clashes with your morality or understanding. But using emotional intelligence or your own frustration to abuse, to evoke Muslims Sorry !!!

Technically there is nothing like ex-Muslim . Its inherited from girlfriend-boyfriend drama in this generation and ex-of them.

Lets talk about whats your new identity to be

When you left Islam
if you don't believe in God then you are atheist.
If you are uncertain then you are agnostic.
If you believe in God but don't believe Muhammad as the messenger of God then you are theist (depend on what religion you started practicing) but not Muslim

In any way whatever you be finally, If you keep bitching, insulting, hurting with intention to damage , hammer , attack against Islam ! You will be enemy !

Abid says:

I said: "Muslims do not believe Islam or Muhammad directly from God's inspiration or command but from their forefathers' words. "
Here you have made Belief and Knowledge one. I was talking about Belief and you are citing example of 'Knowledge'. See, Who is DISHONEST. It is you who is DISHONEST not ME.
A Belief is inculcated not Knowledge. Knowledge is imparted. Because knowldege does not need to be internalized. A belief should be based on one's own knowledge and understanding not on forfathers or others, judged by logic, common sense, conscience and human centric morals.

zitouni says:

Muslim man said : I will read Mr Sina's writing hoping it will increase and improve my understanding about Islam. Mr Sina seems to be very knowledgable about Islam and about life of the Prophet, although he has failed to find one bit of goodness in them.

Are you nuts you want to learn Islam from an ignorant person . All this ignorant knows is hate and attacking the prophet. He is liar he claimed that he read koran in Arabic and I caught him lying I got the proof of that in this site if you want to see it .

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… clarification… I understand that muslims can find verses in the qur'an that give them a "source of value and inspiration." Those verses exist… and so do the verses that tell muslims to become savages. And on top of these verses… you have the tafseers, and the hadith… where muslims learn about the actions of muhammad and where they learn about his behaviors like allowing someone to be pulled in half by a camel, or slitting the throats of 900 jews in one day.

Please remember, many of the most senior men in the most brutal terrorist organizations in the world are educated men… entrepreneurs, investors, muslim doctors and scientists, lawyers, financial mangers, etc., and they read the same qur'an you read… and they find children… show them the verses in the qur'an that talk about martyrs and how they will receive paradise filled with sex and gluttony… and they strap a bomb on them… which was built by a highly educated muslim engineer… and off they go to kill innocent people…

The problem is not the people… it is the content of your religion… it is a jumble of contradictions and inaccuracies… it is so convoluted you need to have your own "science" to unravel it for the ummah. The problem with THAT is… the "opinions" of your "jurists" can change, as they have all through islamic history. One minute you have one who agrees with child marriage… the next you don't… and it will always be like this… it must… because all these conflicting ideas are in your qur'an to be argued over for eternity.

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… I don't have an "unfavorable" attitude toward muslims. I have a justified attitude toward muslims who are acting unfavorably. The problem is not muslims… muslims are people… and people are the same everywhere… the problem is islam… the destroyer of progress and civilization…

With regard to advancements made in "muslim" countries… advancements were the norm in these countries before muhammad came along with his allah… if advancements are being made… it is in spite of islam…

for example… these muslims are currently killing these polio vaccine workers because they "fear" that it is a conspiracy to destroy islam… you see what I mean?

The very muslims you mention, who are working to "cure diseases" are being undermined by the very muslims they are trying to help… this is madness.

You have assumed that I don't have "up to date" information, and then, you use this false notion to go on and suggest how I've been rendered "unable" to look at the world in a balanced manner (whatever "balanced" means)… Do you see the circular nature of this reasoning?

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… first of all… faithful muslims follow muhammad… if muslims follow muhammad… they will do what muhammad did… muhammad was not a peaceful man… he was a murderous hothead… he robbed the caravans of, and then, slaughtered his neighbors and took their women and children captive… and in many cases sexually violated the women on the very day he killed their families (click here)… He ordered the assassination of an old poet and a mother in her sleep as she nursed her newborn baby, just because they spoke against him… Faithful muslims follow the example of their prophet… Muslims are not told to be peaceful… they are told to fight, and subdue… Behold:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizia [Humiliation Tax] with submission, and feel themselves subdued.Qur'an {9: 29)

Why hide the fact that you are commanded to bring war, oppression, death and humiliation to the people around you who don't submit to your religion of madness? Why hide behind this false facade of "peace?" You are commanded in the verse above to FIGHT those who don't accept your religion, subdue them, and make them pay a humiliation tax if they don't convert to islam…Why can't you just be proud of the fact that you are called upon to kill, humiliate, enslave and oppress? Why is it so important for muslims to convince the rest of the world that they are a peaceful people?

J Stillwater

Joe says:

Dear Muslim Man,

tell me how can i trust a man who believes that the unbeliever of your book is vile!
How can i trust a man that believes it is ok to take captives and slaves!
How ca i trust a person who want to be like mohammad who was a savage war monger!

I know good muslim people, but that is because they are good people.. islam is what poisons the minds of the innocent

Joe says:

@aminthedenier

once again denial of the facts.. do you think this is the path to God.. denial of truth?

Mosab Yousef is the oldest son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a charismatic founding member of Hamas.. FACT
So as the oldest son of a Hamas Leader, what do you think? would Mosab Yousef have received the best Islamic instruction that was avaiable?
the Best education available?

read the story for your self you can download from http://sonofhamas.com/

Slave of prophet says:

@J Stillwater
Islam means submission to the will of Allah. Muslim are most peaceful people of the world. Islam does not need recognition from Kufr/non-believers as peaceful religion because Allah himself said Muslim are best people and best creature. Our prophet Mohammed was messenger of peace and established peace all over the world by establishing Islam.

Muslim Man says:

Dear Ali Sina,

My response was directed to J Stillwater, who seems to have a view that all Muslims are bad, all Muslims are killers; as if (?) he denies the existense of good and intellectual Muslims, who continue to achieve higher in their fields of work, and continue to stick to their Islamic heritage. You may want to clarify this to J Stillwater since he seems to have very high respect for you.

Great ideas often begin with something many people believe to be wishful thinking. But the return of Islamic civilization to world's mainstream conversation is no longer a wishful thinking. People are beginning to appreciate the contribution of Muslim scientists, Muslim entrepreneurs and investors, Muslim thinkers, Islamic financial management, etc who continue to refer to the Quran as their source of value and inspiration.

aminthemystic says:

Doh!

I DON@T believe you. I don't believe a WORD of what you say.

NEITHER am I interested in what happens to Google. . . . in an hypothetical situation.

– – –

See the absurdity:

"be able to google is… oh nevermind… gotta run along and have a life… "

Even YOU gave up on it.

– – –

Matey – it must have been SHIT Christmas for you . . .

If you come here to get your kicks!

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… believe me… if the world was run by muslims… there would BE no google… or maybe there would be… but all you'd be able to google is… oh nevermind… gotta run along and have a life…

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… no attack… you and I have been going round and round for over two hours… and in all that time you've not posted ONE link to proof of your claim to have defeated anyone… I've been waiting… hoping… and nothing… so when, after SO LONG a time… I said: "finally, you post a link."

This is not an attack. I'm actually saying: "why couldn't you have done this two hours ago, before my fingers went all bloody from frenzied typing?"

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… you are fearful that i will continue to ask you questions after you answer the question about the ten commandments… I promise you I will not… but I will probably ask clarifying questions about your answer… only questions relating to your answer… and not other questions relating to other things… so… if you're ready to answer… I'm certainly ready to hear your answer… if you need me to restate the question about the ten commandments in the format in which I first asked it… please let me know…

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… in mathematical set theory… some things are contained in sets with other things…. and each of those things has its own set… so… if I mention visitors who can use google to begin to learn how to do their own research on islam… I MUST be speaking of the set of those who are just learning about islam… a priori… and NOT speaking of those who don't… in the set called "visitors" there is a "subset" of people who have no idea about islam… or how to study it…

The reason I said to google it… is because it provides a quick resource for someone to study what an exegetical fallacy is without me having to waste characters in this little text entry box… no big conspiracy… just trying to put google to good use before the muslims outlaw it.

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

"the "doh!" between your ears comment is an observation, not an attack… and this the "may be between your ears" as opposed to: "you have dough between your ears." "

In that case . . . I make observations to. Or did you NOT get there. It isn't an observation and you know it.

– – –

"I challenged your claim… in order to challenge your claim, I must give my argument… which is: "all I encounter from you is attacks, etc." "

Which IS your claim . . counter claims doesn't answer it.

– – –

"That statement about the attacks, is my challenge to your claim… which is: "you've defeated people, etc." "

No it isn't . . . you cannot make claims as answers.

Fallacious.

You can challange something of mine – separate.

Answers to YOUR claims is up to you to answer.

– – –

Actually – I answered . . . .

Where i have defeated Sina.

And I also said I have defeated YOU.

Hence – just pointing this out is lying:

""sure…. on such person is YOU."

As I said further:

In particular . . . http://alisina.org/blog/2012/08/10/the-sound-sane….

Arguments over his book and its methodology – which he COULD NOT answer.

– – –

aminthemystic says:

No – those two are excuses . . .

"it is better for the readers who visit the site to learn how to do their own research on islam"

Why do you assume that "visitors" don't know how to do er . . . research already?

– – –

Actually the above shows – you did NOT really have and argument.

I clearly laid out – exactly HOW Islam relates to the word "Peace".

– – –

In the above "google it" doesn't give answer. It meaninglss.

You could say this to EVERY argument. When you are asked for evidence, references and proof.

Answer – just Google it.

This is not accepted to be true.

– – –

Specifically in the above case it is meaningless. You tried to create an argument – where ne doesn't exist.

I gave my answer. . . and I know what I am talking about.

J_Stillwater says:

aminriadh/aminthemystic… actually… whenever you see me refer to google… it is for two reasons… 1.) it is better for the readers who visit the site to learn how to do their own research on islam… and 2.) it is easier.

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

" as I've stated… and as can be studied at length online… just google "does islam mean peace" and you'll get both sides of the argument… "

This is NO answer. As I have explained EXACTLY How Islam relates to peace. . .

If you have read something . . . then post it up.

Saying:

". just google "does islam mean peace" and you'll get both sides of the argument… "

is simply absurd.

– – –

"There is a huge difference between saying: "being IN islam will bring you peace,""

NO ONE HAS SAID THIS.

– – –

"which translates to "being IN submission will bring you salam""

NO IT DOES NOT.

– – –

"and it is quite another thing entirely to say that "salam=islam,""

Something NO ONE has said.

I explained CLEARLY how Islam relates to Peace.

There is NO POINT explaining it again.

– – –

"You can say that the dar es salam is "found within submission to allah" but you cannot say the dar es salam IS submission to allah… do you see the difference here? "

huh? Worng. Dar es Salam is reference to Islam the religion.

I have explained this above.

– – –

"Another example is the fact that in islam… there is the dar al islam… which means "house of islam.""

In other words – Islam is "House of Peace"

– – –

"There is "dar al harb" which mens "house of war" etc. These all are references to islam… "

NO this is WRONG.

"dar al harb" is NOT a reference to Islam. No one says Dar al-harb and mean Islam.

– – –

"islam is submission… so… there is a "house of peace" found in the "house of submission…" etc. "

Actually Islam the word means Submission. Verbal noun of Aslama – form IV of Salama

Islam technically is reference to the religion.

So is Silm and Dar es Salam. Where as Islam means Submission.

These word mean Peace. [Linguistically]

– – –

"Exegetical fallacy… google… happiness… "

In other words . . . NO ANSWER.

aminthemystic says:

"see what I mean? this is how you always respond… I say I'm writing an article… you ridicule the time it takes… that is an appeal to ridicule…"

No it isn't.

Appeal to ridicule is . . .

"is an informal fallacy which presents an opponent's argument as absurd, ridiculous, or in any way humorous, to the specific end of a foregone conclusion that the argument lacks any substance which would merit consideration."

Wiki.

Asking after the time and questions it would take IS NOT ridicule . . . it is ASKING for time!

I am NOT ridiculing you. Your writing an article which ANSWERS questions YOU set to your own self . . . has NOTHING to do with me.

– – –

"if a person says they are writing an article… the best thing to do, especially when the person has said they are taking time to write it well (remember I said I was going to disappear for a while), is to give them that time… but instead… you commit the fallacy of appeal to ridicule by ridiculing the time I am taking… do you see this is a fallacy in reasoning? "

Nope. As what ARGUMENT are you answering . . . . look what appeal to ridicule ACTUALLY Is . . .

"is an informal fallacy which presents an opponent's argument as absurd, ridiculous, or in any way humorous, to the specific end of a foregone conclusion that the argument lacks any substance which would merit consideration."

So which argument have I ridiculed?

You saying you are writing an article and hence you are asking question – which I am too afraid to answer . . .

IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.

Fallacies RELATE to an argument.

You promised ARGUMENTS – KILLER ARGUMENTS . . . which HAVE NOT MATERIALIZED.

Instead – you claimed to be writing an article!

And THAT only after being pressed for an answer. . . which I thought was coming.

– – –

"It's like when a person says they're going to give you a gift… and you keep poking them in the ribs saying: So, where is it huh? huh? where is it? did you really get me a gift? Huh? Can you see how this is childish behavior?"

False analogy. . . as there is PRELUDE to this gift giving promise . . . it is NOT the same thing.

You are apparently writing this killer article in refutation . . . .about a discussion.

Then you bothered me with questions. . . .

Which could be endless . . .

SO – I have asked for answers . . .

Which you claim is Suddenly . . .ridicule of you?

Why?

– – –

"I've already sent a portion of the article to Mr. Sina for his remarks, which he gave me, and I'm continuing… don't worry. When I'm finished, you'll know. "

See where you started from . . .and where you are ending up to!

THAT is what is truly ridiculous.

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… see what I mean? this is how you always respond… I say I'm writing an article… you ridicule the time it takes… that is an appeal to ridicule… and is a classic fallacy… here's why…

if a person says they are writing an article… the best thing to do, especially when the person has said they are taking time to write it well (remember I said I was going to disappear for a while), is to give them that time… but instead… you commit the fallacy of appeal to ridicule by ridiculing the time I am taking… do you see this is a fallacy in reasoning?

It's like when a person says they're going to give you a gift… and you keep poking them in the ribs saying: So, where is it huh? huh? where is it? did you really get me a gift? Huh? Can you see how this is childish behavior?… I have entertained the notion that you may indeed be someone in your early teens…

When a person is writing an article… that means the article is not finished yet… so… to suggest they post an unfinished article online is again, immature… I'm not writing the article to "silence you." You're a bit full of yourself there pal… I don't take this as a joke, as you seem to… for me, this is about stopping people from killing other people, and throwing acid in their faces… and shooting schoolgirls on their school buses… etc… and I take it very seriously…

I've already sent a portion of the article to Mr. Sina for his remarks, which he gave me, and I'm continuing… don't worry. When I'm finished, you'll know.

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

"with regard to your snide, yet ineffective quip about my sources… as I've stated before… it is not important where information comes from… what's important is whether it is true or false…. "

As I pointed out – THEN I am NOT replying to YOU – But to the source.

An I am PERFECTLY within my rights to point this out.

There is NOTHING wrong with it.

And I did NOT dismiss the "source" either.

So. . .

"with regard to your snide, yet ineffective quip about my sources"

Is dishonest.

– – –

"So, your comment about where I get my information is an ad hominem attack (attack the person instead of their logic)"

huh? This is NOT what ad hmoinem is . . .neither have I committed it.

As it is apparent – I DID ANSWER.

And why do you completely forget using biased source is a fallacy?

– – –

"one of your favorites."

A BASELESS attack!

– –

" for good measure… and to create a red herring… you attack the person… you clever rascal you…
"

Out and out lies and attacks . . .

And THIS is attacking ME

rather than the argument!

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… sometimes I think you post here just to create endlessly long pages of text for people to have to read through… in the hopes that they will give up and won't be exposed to the very reasonable arguments presented here…

The reason I say that is, you are asking me to give proof to something when the burden of proof is on you…

You made a claim… the claim that you have defeated Mr. Sina, Julia, Myself and others on this site. I simply said you always say this but I've never seen your proof… you made the claim… I challenged it because I never see your proof… you have two choices… you can say: "Well J Stillwater… that's your opinion and you're welcome to it…" or… you can post some proof of your claims… in the earlier case… you would appear to be defeated, since you have made claims that you're not willing to instantly back up with proof… in the latter case… you would appear more credible and others would be able to see how and under what circumstances you spanked your opponents…

I made no "false allegations" against you… I said you make statements all the time about how you defeated this person or that person… which is completely true… I simply said I never see proof of it… which is also completely true…

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

"your admonition creates the illusion that I am uninformed… which you have not proven… and then, you go on from that false conclusion to recommend I fix the problem you've falsely concluded… do you see the circular nature of this reasoning? "

You claimed stuff previously – which turned out to be wrong. . .

THEN you went wild . . . . said all sorts . . .

HUGE claims . . .

Which you NEVER answered . . . .

Hence – you are NOT informed.

– – –

"It is a textbook case of begging the question… because… in your conclusion "the useful thing for you to do is… STUDY" you have place one of your premises: i.e. "you have not studied enough…" It's like asking the question: "when did you stop beating your wife?" You see how that assumes I've beaten my wife? "

No son . . .this is YOU deceiving . . . . YOU are trying to forgo that you have a HISTORY.

Remember Remember – The Big Declaration . . . that never came?

– – –

" A.) Ali Sina's information is inaccurate… (a circular argument, since you have not proven it)."

Nope – I have ASKED you to make an objective study . . . .and compare.

Here is what I said:

"Why don't you start off with reading up on Sina's book.

And write up an objective analysis. . . by comparing to the actual sources?

Read few of his "articles"

Check them out . . . . check out his sources. . . .

And then write up . . . . "

Where in the above is it . . . that implies that the conclusion WILL come to is that Sina is wrong. . . and write about that?

I actually leave that open. And my other comment will confirm this.

Where I say – Whatever position you have AFTER an objective study – at least you will have authority behind you.

See – you choose to make up things . . . .

An idiotic and absurd lie.

– – –

" If I take your advice I will uncover the flaws in Mr. Sina's writings"

Nope – If YOU take my advice – rather than implying that you HAVE read Sina's work . . . . you WILL have read it.

Then rather than SPEAKING in generalities – you will be able to give specific EXAMPLES.

Hence – I later expounded on this . . . in another comment.

Also . . . then whatever you position is you will be able to speak with authority.

– – –

"Finally… you keep saying I have lost something… I don't remember being in a debate with you…. I made a statement about muhammad… I said he committed adultery (and I've added to that accusation the sin of blasphemy)… and I said I would prove it… as part of that proof…"

Load of all hoo-ha. . .

You went of . . . you made SEVERAL comments that you were going to reply . . .

But you DID NOT.

I entertained you for a while . .. and GOT bored.

There are SEVERAL of your comments available here. I had Ali as witness . . who then went off to watch movies on Netflix!

– – –

"I'm writing the article… answer to that question would certainly speed things along because it would allow me to skip that step in the article… but alas… you're afraid to answer it… "

More lying . . .why would I be er . . . afraid of answering?

And are you going to JUST keep asking more and more questions . . .

How many?

Where will they lead?

How long is it taking you write an article?

Where is it?

Is it online?

Can you PUT it online to SILENCE me?

No?

Why Not.

Yes . . .

Then – an easy solution is WordPress.

aminthemystic says:

"see what I mean? You're pretty funny actually. Let me show you why I say that… let me give you an "example" regarding my statement… "

I know I am – thank you for confirming and saying it.

– – –

"I said all you do is attack people and that's the end of it… and minutes later you post the very evidence I need… and in fact… in your post you ask for an example… so… I will use the very post in which you ask for an example…. since it is a PERFECT example to use… "

Oh I am salivating. . . .

– – –

"I made a statement… accusing you of doing nothing more than attacking people… I mentioned your link… the link on your aminriadh screen name… which you seem to have shed for some reason… maybe things got too hot with that name and too many people took you to task and your imams told you to shed the name, lest it lead people to posts that could cause them to leave islam… who knows…
"

Actually I gave you the answer – which perfectly SIMPLE . . .and reasonable.

Second – that NAME is still there. And I STILL intend to use it. . . .

I am logged on to WordPress for creating this site:
http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

Then I am FORCED to use this name.

– – –

"Anyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…" you came back with: "

""A lie – and it comforts you"
"if you were truthful you would present examples" (I am)
"actually – that is attempt to shift burden of proof… which is fallacious" Huh?
"see how untruthful you are?" "

– – –

"Okay… now I don't know about the rest of the group… but I don't see anything in these responses other than attacks"

Ha ha ha . . . see how untruthful you are . . . ha ha . . .

This is an attack:

"You don't actually answer people's accusations… what you do is tell them they are wrong… and that's the end of it… or you attack them… and that's the end of it… They say "A" and you say "nope…" and that's the end of it…. "

So you attacked me . . . I answered.

And you claim I answered with the ABOVE . . .

And I did NOT do/say similar to this:

nyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…"

YET – I also said:

"If you were truthful . . . you would present examples . .. "

"Actually – that is attempt to shift burden of proof . . . which is fallacious. "

To which YOUR REPLY was an answer to . . .

YET – you clearly lied when you said this:

"Anyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…""

– – –

YOU made false allegations against ME. . . . I asked you to prove them . . .

What do you do?

Claim that I just attacked you. . . .

And that is it.

Whereas I didn't . . . .

I asked YOU to prove what YOU claimed . . .

And you couldn't.

– – –

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… thanks for the advice on Mr. Sina… your advice begs the question… which is a fallacy… here's why… your admonition creates the illusion that I am uninformed… which you have not proven… and then, you go on from that false conclusion to recommend I fix the problem you've falsely concluded… do you see the circular nature of this reasoning?

It is a textbook case of begging the question… because… in your conclusion "the useful thing for you to do is… STUDY" you have place one of your premises: i.e. "you have not studied enough…" It's like asking the question: "when did you stop beating your wife?" You see how that assumes I've beaten my wife?

You are seeking to create for the readers here the false picture that: A.) Ali Sina's information is inaccurate… (a circular argument, since you have not proven it). B.) If I take your advice I will uncover the flaws in Mr. Sina's writings.. (another circular argument since it concludes, without any proof, that there ARE flaws in Mr. Sina's writings…)

Finally… you keep saying I have lost something… I don't remember being in a debate with you…. I made a statement about muhammad… I said he committed adultery (and I've added to that accusation the sin of blasphemy)… and I said I would prove it… as part of that proof… I asked you to answer a question… which you avoided it… I'm writing the article… answer to that question would certainly speed things along because it would allow me to skip that step in the article… but alas… you're afraid to answer it…

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… see what I mean? You're pretty funny actually. Let me show you why I say that… let me give you an "example" regarding my statement…

I said all you do is attack people and that's the end of it… and minutes later you post the very evidence I need… and in fact… in your post you ask for an example… so… I will use the very post in which you ask for an example…. since it is a PERFECT example to use…

I made a statement… accusing you of doing nothing more than attacking people… I mentioned your link… the link on your aminriadh screen name… which you seem to have shed for some reason… maybe things got too hot with that name and too many people took you to task and your imams told you to shed the name, lest it lead people to posts that could cause them to leave islam… who knows…

Anyway… instead of you coming back and saying… "I invite people to click my name and look at the post from such and such a date…" you came back with:

"A lie – and it comforts you"
"if you were truthful you would present examples" (I am)
"actually – that is attempt to shift burden of proof… which is fallacious" Huh?
"see how untruthful you are?"

Okay… now I don't know about the rest of the group… but I don't see anything in these responses other than attacks… and by the way… How can I be shifting the burden of proof? You're the one who made the claim over and over again that you've somehow defeated people in debates here on this site… I challenged your claim… the burden of proof is on you… hello??!!

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh/aminthemystic… actually, your post is not correct. What Dar es Salam" means is "house of peace," and has nothing to do with submission. It is a different phrase altogether… For example, I can write: Dar es Islam and it would mean: "house of submission." Even though the words are derived from the same root… they are two different words… and you have committed what is known as an "exegetical fallacy." Behold the following list. Notice that all these words are derived from the same root… so… following your reasoning… Salam (peace) and (Salama – the tanning of leather or the sting of a snake) mean the same thing, which they obviously do not.

Islam اسلام Submission
Salam سلام Well-being/Peace
(Derivation of) Salama سلما The stinging of a snake or the tanning of the leather
Saleema سليما To be saved or to escape from danger (when refering to a female)
Saleem سليم To be saved or to escape from danger (when refering to a male)
Aslam اسلم To submit
Istaslama استسلاما To surrender
Musal مسل Undisputed
Tasleem تسليم To receive a salutation or becoming submitted

For more on this subject, see the following link: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Meaning_of_Islam

J Stillwater

J_Stillwater says:

@aninriadh/aminthemystic… nice to hear from you again… I thought you were ignoring me… I was becoming worried…

You'll notice, if you click on your intensedebate link, I paid your page a visit the other day, because I wanted to see if I could substantiate your claim that you've been answering people's accusations regarding islam. What I found was what I expected to find… I've actually been following you on here pretty closely… so I've seen what you've been posting…

You don't actually answer people's accusations… what you do is tell them they are wrong… and that's the end of it… or you attack them… and that's the end of it… They say "A" and you say "nope…" and that's the end of it….

Muslim Man on the other hand, answers questions… Zitouni answers questions… no-name answers questions… you on the other hand… don't. So… I'm not sure where all the posts are where you say you've defeated all these people… but it isn't on your intense debate profile…. and I invite anybody to go there and see the proof…

Oh… and I'm very familiar with Mr. Sina's arguments… I hold many of the same opinions… opinions which I have come to on my own… through my own study…

Now… how about the answer to that question I asked you all those days ago about the ten commandments?

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

"it would be easier for me to believe islam were at least partially true if muslims didn't continually skate around the answers and give answers to questions that were never asked"

Actually this is standard practice for people like you to claim such thing.

It is VERY easy to expose.

Because there are claims such as the above. . .

BUT

PROOF – will be missing.

= = =

And I would like to take this opportunity to remind you – YOU LOST.

Hence – the useful thing for you to do is . . . STUDY.

– – –

Why don't you start off with reading up on Sina's book.

And write up an objective analysis. . . by comparing to the actual sources?

Read few of his "articles"

Check them out . . . . check out his sources. . . .

And then write up . . . .

Here is how to get a free decent blog:
http://wordpress.com/

aminthemystic says:

"muslim prince"

This is how little lies start.

aminthemystic says:

"Some Muslim countries are already performing better economically than non Muslim"

Oil doesn't really count – however the states ARE playing smart – like Qatar Oman Kuwait Dubai.

The investment in education is amazing. And standards are rising.

If Iran wasn't that way it would lead them all in education.

Danyaal says:

Brother, when say things like this you kind of affirm that the other person has got you by the "bollocks"*.

* Apologies for the word.

Danyaal says:

Shouldn't you be able to understand this language? So translate.

zitouni says:

If a muslim, in say, sudan… goes into a village, kills the men, as muhammad did… and then… enslaves the women… distributes them among the fighters (as muhammad did regularly)… and they take these women into their tents… rip their clothes off… stop… and say… hey… is this reprehensible behavior? Is this "a perversion?" Muslim Man, on alisina.org says it is… so maybe I should consult the qur'an… He opens to 4:24, and then to 23:2-3, and then to 70:22-30… reads it… and what is he told? He is told Muslim Man is wrong on this issue…

Sudan war is not considered to be jihad becasue the war is between Muslims . What you have stated in those verses is concerning jihad situattion 1400 years ago when there were no UN or human right organization. so what is happening in Sudan is wrong on both grounds . You are really too dumb person you swallow everything you read from anti islamic website

zitouni says:

You mentioned that not every muslim is obliged to go to war… according to the qur'an, every muslim is called to jihad…

when there is war those who are qualified should fight

in all of its aspects… all the time… until the world is completely subdued under the domination of islam

Wrong. Koran says fight those who fight you and I have already explain that to you and you keep repeating the same argument here this shous that you are hypocrite

.

Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know. (002:216) Khan

Nothing wrong about that . They have hijad too where you live I am sure you got an army in your country

When you say "go to war," your statement is not accurate… because muslims are always "at war" with the kafir… muslims are always fighting to overthrow the rest of the world… this is why islam is a violent religion…

Who ocupies territories of who. we ocupy somebody else land or you do . how could you make this stupid statement when USA ocupied Iraq and now Afganistan old fashion ocupation and they ocupy Arab countries moder ocupation

it must be violent… muslims must kill… maybe you don't like to kill… but you are commanded by the qur'an to support those who do… you are commanded to have just as much blood on your hands as they do… because you are called upon to give them all the support they require to achieve their goal…

You are sick and ignorant . There is no comnand in koran for muslim to must kill for no reason

What a horrible world the muslims are creating for our children,

the world is horible becasue white men who do not want to get rid of slave master mentality and not because Islam . Muslims are living in their lands they have not ocupied your land you are the one who is doing that . Very funny from your part you ocupy and kill and meantime you cry out help Muslims are barbarians

zitouni says:

can you show me where "scholars" are saying that it is no longer halal to take women as prisoners of war? How can "scholars" go against the sunnah of their prophet?

Sheikh Kishak I heard him saying since today we have exchange of prisoner of wars which something did not exist back then you are no longer allowed to take women as prisoner of war and have sex with them

Also… you said "people who invented slavery have changed their behavior so muslims can no longer take women as prisoner of war…" So… by this logic… when the people "change their behavior" is when muslims change theirs? Are you saying that human decency is based on what other people do?

Muslims were forced to treat prosoner of wars as slaves because the enemy was engaging in that kind of practuse long before Islam . It was the enemy military policy and Muslims were not in business of changing his policy so they have to play with the same rule otherwise you will be subjecting your army to be defeated and lose the war .As soon as these people changed it we were happy about it .

In other words, muslims don't hate things just because the things are reprehensible? They change their tune based on what "others" decide is acceptable behavior? That's what your post means… why wouldn't muslims continue to take slaves regardless of what other people see as normal? Why wouldn't muslims say no to slavery, even if everyone around them is saying yes to it? What is the matter with muslims that they cannot see the insanity in these things? Above, you stated the the qur'an "allow you to have full sexual relation with her." How nice! Who gives the qur'an the authority to have sex with a woman against her will?

Allowing means that sex will not considred to be fornication and also it does not mean to rape and who told you it was against her will ?

What the hell gives a muslim the right to take this woman captive and then rape her?

Thats war and blame her people for declaring war on Muslims

Muhammad raped his captives. His companions wanted to practice coitus interruptus just so they wouldn't impregnate them and lower their value at auction… please don't beguile us with tales of protecting these women's human rights… that is a lie. The reason you muslims say the things you say about it is because it is an embarrassment for you to have to explain muhammad's savage behavior.

Read hadiths again you are just ignorant and you have been reading too much anti Islamic website lately LOL

zitouni says:

also, your answer about Jihad is not completely accurate either… the qur'an clearly states that fighting in the way of allah is for the spreading of islam…

Qur'an (8:39) – “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”

Them refer to idolators and if they cease meaning if they stop attacking you and persecuting and not if they cease worshiping other gods because it says later if the return meaning they return to old habit then you should know Allah is with you . Did you check tafsir or you just got this information from anti islamic website and swallowed it

Ibn Katir said :

(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah…).'' Ibn `Umar said, "We did that during the time of the Messenger of Allah, when Islam was weak and the man would be tried in religion, either tormented to death or being imprisoned. When Islam became stronger and widespread, there was no more Fitnah.'' When the man realized that Ibn `Umar would not agree to what he is saying, he asked him, "What do you say about `Ali and `Uthman'' Ibn `Umar replied, "What do I say about `Ali and `Uthman! As for `Uthman, Allah has forgiven him, but you hate that Allah forgives him. As for `Ali, he is the cousin of the Messenger of Allah and his son-in-law,'' and he pointed with his hand saying, "And this is his house over there.'' Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "Ibn `Umar came to us and was asked, "What do you say about fighting during Fitnah'' Ibn `Umar said, "Do you

I didn't ask if the qur'an mentions the hijab or burka as required… I said isn't it required under shariah law… and the answer is yes… it is.

You are very funny man . what do you think sharia law is derived from . Koran is the most important source of sharia law then second is hadith third is works of scholars.

Since you go on to say that you support shariah law… you are implicitly stating that you agree with killing apostates and you agree with women wearing the hijab and burka by law…

Read above .

Muslim Man says:

Dear J_Stillwater, I am sorry that you have developed such an unfavorable attitude towards Muslims. I hope that will change with time, and with the increasing ability of Muslims to show the world that they are indeed good people who deserve the world's respect. Some Muslim countries are already performing better economically than non Muslim ones, a very small number of Muslims are already winning science prizes, Muslim philantropists are already working with non Muslim ones to cure diseases in Africa and Asia. Probably this good news did not or has not reached you. It seems to me you are not so up to date in this regard that you maintain your suspicion and other unfavorable attitudes against Muslims, and this has rendered you being unable look at the affair of the world in a more balanced manner.

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… the word "islam" means "submission." The Arabic word for peace is "Salam." It is an exegetical fallacy to say that Islam means peace because it is similar to "salam." They are two different words… just like "cat" and "scat" are two different words.

A thing is judged by its fruit. If someone tells me their religion is "peaceful," I expect to find harmony, and peaceful coexistence. Muslims are not told to coexist. They are told to conquer, and extort jizia "protection money" from the conquered.

In the qur'an, muslims are told to wage jihad until the world is islamic… this leaves no room for peace… because there will always be people like me on the outside of islam, and there will always be murderous factions on the inside of islam…

Muslims will continue to slaughter people who disagree with them, and have laws in the shariah called "blasphemy laws" that ensure people like me are killed with haste. Muslims will even kill innocent people to vent their rage (see Benghazi).

I don't need to visit muslim countries to see muslims first hand… they are in my country… and are ANYTHING but peaceful… muslims are ungrateful, whining agitators who want everything THEIR way… and want to change our customs and practices to suit THEIR islamic ideology. Muslims did not create this our country with the blood and sweat and dreams of generations… and now… as always… they want to move in and take what they did not earn… They are an ungrateful guest who now seeks to be master of the house.

J Stillwater

Joe says:

very simple

one man plus many wives = lots of first cousins
soceity where lots of men have many wives = lots and lots of first cousins

first cousin plus first cousin = high probability of deformaties
siple enough for you to understand?

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… thank you for your reply… I want to focus in on something you wrote… you stated:

I can say that sexual assaults to women and even making women sex slaves can happen during war, even in today's war. But this is a perversion. I believe this is a violation of the war convention ratified by so many countries already.

You've stated that sexual assaults and making women sex slaves "is a perversion." You go on to state that the war convention, agreed to by "so many countries" sees these practices as a violation of an agreement not to practice these crimes.

Now… what we can gather from the above: these practices are reprehensible… "so many countries" agree… even you agree, and called them "a perversion."

Here's the problem… this "perversion" is granted by allah in the qur'an itself. You can't put yourself, and your morals above the words of your prophet… the highest example of muslim behavior. According to muhammad (i.e. allah)… these practices ARE NOT perversion… they are gifts from allah… behold:

O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war… [Quran 33:50]

They are your possession… you own them… and can sexually violate them.

J Stillwater

aminthemystic says:

"Yes you can quote and criticize my book. I am doing the Quran all the time. "

The only problem being . . .I can er .. . easily refute your lies.

Hasn't happened other way around has it.

aminthemystic says:

You are so stupid – you cannot either!

If you could – you would have!

It is THAT simple

Muslim Man says:

Dear J Stillwater, jihad is not laways the same as war. As I stated in my previous response to you, it also means seriously pursuing an objective through hardwork. War, which is something of the last resort, is only one of them and is basically for self defence purposes. Islam means peace, and we do promote peace. Islam does not mean violence, and we do condemn violence.

Regarding the burning of the Quran, I was wondering why these people had to burn it in the first place? I am sure they knew that there were a group of other people (i.e. Muslims) who would be offended by the burning of the Quran.

Dear J Stillwater, no, Muslims are not supposed to kill. We are a bunch of peaceful people. Do visit our countries. You will find Senegalese who are very soft and welcoming. You will find Muslims in Southeast Asia among the most hospitable people in the world. Have you experienced Arab hospitality?

Yes, there are vice and crime, there are looting and rapes in our countries, so are there in other countries. And just like in other countries, there are courts of law to dispense justice to these criminals.

We Muslims support justice, although there are injustice rulers in the Muslim world with the blood of Muslims and non Mulims on their hands – but we do not support such leaders. Are there Muslims who support such leaders? Yes, there are, in which context I can safely say that these leaders are also supported by non Muslims. These are all politics, the wrong politics — which, unfortunately, is the real politics.

There are children movies created by Muslim producers. You will find in those movies peace and serenity and also education. By the way, batman and spiderman are also translated into our languages and millions of Muslim kids watch them. I can surely tell you that we Muslims also aspire for a world of peace, for a world where Muslims and non Muslims can live together collaborating to do good to and for each other — this is happening already.

zitouni says:

I have asked many times ignorant people like you to explain to me why Muslims did not just clean the Arab world from non Muslims long time ago if you think Koran advocate the killing of kafirs , but they have no answer to my question . Do you know why ? They have read those verses in their historical context . Robert spencer is not scholar of Islam in order for you to use him in your argument he is man who he is making living on people like you . All what Muslims are asking you is to stay in your back yard is it hard thing to do ? . If you refuse which did then do not talk to me about violence or Jihad because you deserve it. You keep mentioning contrajihadist as if we only the only people on planet earth who have military . USA spend more than 300B $ year on their Jihad and nobody ocupies USA .

zitouni says:

Yes, White people conquered North and South America. But micro-organism, causing disease and death played a major role in the conquest. It is estimated that 75 % up to 90 % of North American Indians were killed by illnesses unconsciously brought along by Whites

Bulshit . check this site http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/genocide/n…

Throughout history and before history some people's have invaded the land of other people's and the stronger people won and killed all those resisting. The White people did that too in North America,
What I found stricking is white people do not have the gust to deny Jewish holocaust while they have no shame and no problem to deny far worst holocaust of other races . It looks that your jewish master disciplined your ass

just as the Muslims did in India AND VERY MUCH ELSEWHERE TOO.

Stop lying . fact on the ground does not support your accsation because Muslims today are minorities in India .

But to say nothing about the vast majority of Indians being killed by micro-organism, diseases and presenting their decline and replacement solely on white agression is ignorant at best and a shameless propagandistic deception at worst.

read the link ignorant and I am not the one who is making this accusation the Indians themselves

And of course, when the Muslims invaded India, the Indian Indians had previously been just as much exposed to deadly diseases as the Muslims. So mass death of native population due to diseases did not happen in India during Muslim invasions.

Do you have your proof of this

zitouni says:

That equal rights are being denied to minorities under Muslim rule, while Muslims have equal rights under Democratic law, that surely is an unfair situation.

Muslims in the west just play by the rules that you have . They respect and recognise your constitution while non Muslims in Muslim world do not . You want us to hire people in political office even though they do not recognise the constitution of the country in which they live , are you nuts ?

But if Muslims argue that some kind of enemy may not enter into powerful situations in Islamic countries,

We do not consider them to be enemies

then that would justify the Western countries and India to do the same to Muslims in terms of discrimination in their countries.

It is not really discrimanation it is about allowing people who do not recognise your constitution to be in charge of runing the country . The west would not allow that to anybody while you want us to do so.

And them doing it would leave Muslims in Democratic countries without defense because of Muslims in Islamic countries are discriminating themselves.

Lets assume I live in Holand and I want to ran for political office and I tell to people I do not believe in your political process nor I believe in the constitution what will be the reaction of the Dutsh people ?

Kafirs not doing this should be cause for fair-minded Muslims in Democratic countries to urge publicly their fellow Muslims in Islamic countries to give minorities the same rights that Muslims in Democratic countries enjoy.

If you give right to Neo Nazists , Communist and everyboy who hates your constitution then maybe we would do the same back home . Do you remember the plitician Haider
from Austria when the world turned upside down when he wanted to ran for political office

It is plain unfair to demand and profit from fair play in one group of countries and then giving unfair advantage to Muslims only in another group of countries. This would only be fair if citizens of both groups could migrate to the other group and if Muslims who are more loyal to Islam than to democratic governments when the 2 have conflicting interests can, after consistent refusal to change, be extradited to Islamic countries.

Honestly I do not encounrage Muslims to engage in political process in non Muslims countries

aminthemystic says:

Ha ha ha . . . . see the hate!

This personal.

– – –

"He is probably an imam in a mosque in London and realizes if people find the truth no one will pay him any respect or money. "

Yet evidence points that I am not.

– – –

"People like Aminriadh don't believe in anything."

This is an OBVIOUS lie. . . .

Poor effort!

aminthemystic says:

"In democratic countries Muslims have equal rights and on principle can become president/ prime minister but in Islamic countries the fellow-Christians, fellow-Atheists and fellow-Hindus-Buddhists-Jews of Western/ Indian etc. people of those religions/ ways of life are not granted equal rights and the possibility to become president/ prime minister. "

Muslims are NO given special status. But treated equally – under a secular system.

So when you say:

"But this attitude among Muslims worldwide supports and sustains an enormous unbalanced and unfair situation worldwide, namely that … "

No it doesn't.

People act out of their belief. It is Western system to secularise their countries.

– – –

This equal rights things here is bogus and a red herring.

– – –

Non-Muslims in Muslims countries should be treated fairly and peacefully.

And how a Muslim wishes to be treated – that is how he should treat his non Muslim counterpart.

Hence – Peace, Justice Social and Welfare security, civil rights and what not.

A Muslim state is INTENDED to be a religious state . . . NOT a secular state. . .

Hence a non-Muslim cannot become head of state . . . .

But they have the autonomy

– – –

AFTER ALL

This is what the "Golden Rule" is about.

– – –

You cannot say that a non-Muslim system should be applied OVER and ENFORCED on Muslims who do NOT want it. This is where your argument leads to.

Same way – Muslims should offer autonomy and freedom to their non Muslim counterparts. Because ultimately – that is how ideally a Muslim would wish to be treated.

– – –

"This unjust situation on a worldwide scale should not be tolerated by mankind and in the future large numbers of Muslims should protest against this worldwide unjust advantage of Muslims. "

What you say above and this doesn't go together.

It sis simply too vague and unspecific to mean much.

– – –

J_Stillwater says:

@Muslim Man… You mentioned that not every muslim is obliged to go to war… according to the qur'an, every muslim is called to jihad… in all of its aspects… all the time… until the world is completely subdued under the domination of islam.

Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know. (002:216) Khan

In other words… even if you are not engaged in the violent aspects of jihad… you are supposed to be supporting those aspects… When you say "go to war," your statement is not accurate… because muslims are always "at war" with the kafir… muslims are always fighting to overthrow the rest of the world… this is why islam is a violent religion… it must be violent… muslims must kill… maybe you don't like to kill… but you are commanded by the qur'an to support those who do… you are commanded to have just as much blood on your hands as they do… because you are called upon to give them all the support they require to achieve their goal…

What a horrible world the muslims are creating for our children, and all for a man who said he flew to heaven on a mule-creature without a space suit, or goggles, or oxygen, or something to protect him from the vacuum of space, or something to shield him from the temperatures of re-entry… it's like I'm in a nightmare that I can't wake up from.

J Stillwater

Demsci says:

"5. I do not support that apostates should be killed"

But then, how do you react to those Muslims who are in favor of this?

Are you prepared to sign the "freedom pledge" of the Former Muslims, which specifically says that the deathpenalty or any penalty for apostasy from Islam is not supported by the signer?

J_Stillwater says:

@zituouni… your comment about slavery is also dishonest… you state, like many muslims, that slavery was "widely practiced" in the times of muhammad… yes… this is true… you also state that there was nothing to do with the prisoners of war but take them along with you… I will accept this… but… you then make the HUGE leap to the sexual component… and state that if two people are living in a house together… "things are gonna happen." This is dishonest… because YOU KNOW muhammad and his raiders had sex with the captive women on the very night they were captured… in the soldier's tents… and NOT living in their homes… and this was a regular occurrence and in fact, it was one of the things muhammad promised his soldiers as an enticement to get them to go on raids with him (please ask me to give proofs… PLEASE)… They had sex with them hours after they had slaughtered their husbands and fathers… sometimes on the very same day! How can you equate this behavior with the United Nations? Raping female prisoners is not protecting their HUMAN RIGHTS!" You and Muslim Man know full well that this is true… and yet, you avoid just being straight and saying, yes… muhammad raped his captives… period. Be proud of your prophet… don't try to skate around the issue by trying to make it look like humanitarian efforts… they killed the men… and enslaved the younger boys and women and girls… and then, many times the same day… they raped them… proudly proclaim the fact that he and his soldiers captured women and forced them to have sex with them on the very day they killed their families… Be proud of it.

J Stillwater

Demsci says:

Zitouni, there are the Quran-Hadiths-Sira and Tafsir. And Muslims interpret them in many different ways. And there is no penalty of kicking Muslims out that interpret these texts in the wrong way.

Your interpretation of these texts on doctrinepoints is just one among many. It has often been shown by MEMRITV and others that in Islamic countries some Islamic clerics have quite different ideas from Islam-apologists about diverse doctrinepoints of Islam.

And the strange thing is that the interpretations of Islam-clerics in Islamic countries often is very close to what counterjihadists say and fear on some doctrinepoints of Islam and much more in contradiction to what Islam-apologists say about the same points. Robert Spencer on Jihadwatch is showing and joking about this phenomenom almost every day. You often can read him saying; "ha, here I show you from the news yet another "misunderstander" of Islam, according to Islam-apologists' interpretation of Islam."

Like concerning your "historic context"-argument. I think it is good, but is there not also this big literalist group that says that all words/ commands in the Quran are valid and prescriptive for all times and not just for the past (descriptive)?

And how can Muslims advocate peaceful coexistence with equal rights, but ONLY in countries where they are the minority and NOT in countries for other minorities where Muslims are the majority? Muslims are simply not credible in wanting genuine worldwide peaceful coexistence, and not fair, when they do not see something very wrong with that situation, I think.

Demsci says:

It is a complicated matter. I don't say that Muslims in Democratic countries should be punished for what Muslims in Islamic countries do. But Muslims "here" should protest to what Muslims in power "there" do.

That equal rights are being denied to minorities under Muslim rule, while Muslims have equal rights under Democratic law, that surely is an unfair situation.

But if Muslims argue that some kind of enemy may not enter into powerful situations in Islamic countries,

then that would justify the Western countries and India to do the same to Muslims in terms of discrimination in their countries.

And them doing it would leave Muslims in Democratic countries without defense because of Muslims in Islamic countries are discriminating themselves.

Kafirs not doing this should be cause for fair-minded Muslims in Democratic countries to urge publicly their fellow Muslims in Islamic countries to give minorities the same rights that Muslims in Democratic countries enjoy. It is plain unfair to demand and profit from fair play in one group of countries and then giving unfair advantage to Muslims only in another group of countries.

This would only be fair if citizens of both groups could migrate to the other group and if Muslims who are more loyal to Islam than to democratic governments when the 2 have conflicting interests can, after consistent refusal to change, be extradited to Islamic countries.

Demsci says:

"Your slave master turned native indians in N America from 100% to less than 1 %"

Yes, White people conquered North and South America. But micro-organism, causing disease and death played a major role in the conquest. It is estimated that 75 % up to 90 % of North American Indians were killed by illnesses unconsciously brought along by Whites.

Throughout history and before history some people's have invaded the land of other people's and the stronger people won and killed all those resisting. The White people did that too in North America, just as the Muslims did in India AND VERY MUCH ELSEWHERE TOO.

But to say nothing about the vast majority of Indians being killed by micro-organism, diseases and presenting their decline and replacement solely on white agression is ignorant at best and a shameless propagandistic deception at worst.

And of course, when the Muslims invaded India, the Indian Indians had previously been just as much exposed to deadly diseases as the Muslims. So mass death of native population due to diseases did not happen in India during Muslim invasions.

Sakat says:

We say creator is perfectionist,don't you think there is lacuna in his creation and his sermon's.His say's(Koran ) won't corroborates with his creation.

Muslim Man says:

Dear Sakat, have you experienced Islam?

When religiousity is declining, quite a signiicant number of non Muslim are finding their way to Islam. I can understand Muslims coming from poor, unstable countries leaving Islam because of their severe disappointment of the way their leaders abuse religion for political gains and of the backwardness of their people. However, when highly educated people coming from advanced and open societies decide to become Muslim — there must be something interesting about Islam. This is despite all the bad things reported about the Quran and the Prophet, about terrorism and violence, and about backwardness of the Muslims.

I would like to assure you that Islam is the way to go. It is the religion of the 21st century and beyond. We Muslims are still weak, but we are working extremely hard to catch up with the rest of the world and do it better. Inshallah.

zitouni says:

1. Do you live in a country where sharia law is the main law of the land?

There is no country in World which pratise sharia law

2. Do you believe in Jihad ("fighting in the way of allah") for the spread of Islam?

Jihad is not used to spread Islam

3. Does your wife wear the hijab or burka? Isn't it required under shariah law?

Koran does not mention hijab or burka as being required

4. Do you support shariah law?

Yes I do

5. Do you support the shariah law that anyone who apostatizes from islam must be killed?

Prophet never killed smebody who apostatizes

6. Do you believe it is halal (following the practice of muhammad and his companions) to make female sex slaves of women captured in wars against the non-muslims?

This practise of taking women as prisoners of war was not invented by Muslims . It existed long before Islam . In those days there was no UN , or human right organization to take care of prisoners of war so the victor have to do something to save life of war refugee and to do that you take them with you . If you have a lady live in your house certainly relationship is going to take place and here Koran allow you to have full sexual relation with her . Today people who invented slavery have changed their behavior so Muslims can no longer take women as prisoner of war and thats what scholars are saying today

zitouni says:

In democratic countries Muslims have equal rights and on principle can become president/ prime minister

Because the Muslim recognise the constitution of the country and respect the politican process

but in Islamic countries the fellow-Christians, fellow-Atheists and fellow-Hindus-Buddhists-Jews of Western/ Indian etc. people of those religions/ ways of life are not granted equal rights and the possibility to become president/ prime minister.

Because they do not recognise the constitution of the country which is Koran and Islam . It just does not make sense to seek political office when you do not recognise the politics in the country. Would Dutch people during cold war accept somebody as prime minister who embrass comunist Ideology, I do not think so

Demsci says:

"Bogus argument. Islam seeks to give autonomy over affairs.
It does NOT believe in a secular political system.
Hence a non Muslims cannot become head of state of Muslims country."""'''''''''

But this attitude among Muslims worldwide supports and sustains an enormous unbalanced and unfair situation worldwide, namely that …

In democratic countries Muslims have equal rights and on principle can become president/ prime minister but in Islamic countries the fellow-Christians, fellow-Atheists and fellow-Hindus-Buddhists-Jews of Western/ Indian etc. people of those religions/ ways of life are not granted equal rights and the possibility to become president/ prime minister.

This unjust situation on a worldwide scale should not be tolerated by mankind and in the future large numbers of Muslims should protest against this worldwide unjust advantage of Muslims.

Sakat says:

Beautiful joke I like it !!!

Sanatan Dharma says:

@Muslim Man
You are a Muslim man you are allowed to keep second, third and 4th wife. If "C" husband do this what option " C " have. "C" can be forced to wear Hijab and follow Islamic rituals. If C doubts and rejects her husband have all rights to beat and even to kill her. I advise all women not to marry at least Muslim man.

Demsci says:

"If oyu BOTHER to read the above – it is clear HE DOESN'T. . . "

This is just you in DEBUNKING MODE.

Where does all this debunking, emphasizing of invalidity and demerits of yours lead to anyway?
– Either to not-knowingness about the discussed issue.
– Or to falling back on old theories, claims like those of Islam.
Whereas instead of debunking all claims, opinions should be awarded SOME merit, but we should among contradicting claims/ opinions, old and new onse, choose the one with the most merits.

Demsci says:

"Son – you can turn practically ANY content into hate/love"

Wise, but then you should not condemn Ali Sina and exonerate Quran-Hadiths-Sira, but condemn or exonerate both with single standards.

Demsci says:

"""""""""""'''How can one expect YOU to tell the truth about Islam . . . when look at the personal level of hatred you have against me?
. .
I think you are dishonest and an individual with lot of issues.
But unlike someone like "denialisnoproof" and "Julia" – you are NOT stupid at all.
Dishonest. Yes.
Very knowledgeable – no. I don't think so.
Issues? Yes.
– – –
Hence why you argue about arguing . . . and you are UNABLE to argue yourself. "

Response; I think we should focus on comments and not on commenters.

Thanks for holding up the mirror, but there are no rules about requirements from commenters to comment here, except for extreme cases, within wide borders.

There are no perfect humans, and I am pretty much average in most respects compared to the whole of mankind. Certainly not somehow less qualified than the average human, who IS allowed to comment here.

Issues, hate towards opponents, prejudice, morality, intelligence, knowledgeability, motivation why one argues, ability or lack thereof of arguERS are all …

– not bound by strict rules, perhaps there are borders but like the average human I stay well within those borders, I think.

– not to be used as deflection from and reason for disqualification, debunking, dismissal-denial of arguMENTS, opinions themselves.

Demsci says:

"Actually if you go back and read what he said . . . then I am 100% valid to ask such questions."

Asking questions in general is a good thing. But what is your intention in asking "What things" when he clearly not only said "things", but he said them in relation to a summing up of 2 or more "things". It seems to me that you try to debunk opponents' statements by somehow implying the impression that they are "vaque", saying "generalities", "incomplete, illogical statements. You imply that it is in addition logical that they cannot answer questions for their implied faulty statements. Or answer in a way that makes or confirms a point. A point you already in advance largely debunked implicitly. By making it look doubtful, shaky, questionable.

This implicit and often explicit debunking is destructive, negating efforts of opponents. Large tracts of your posts consist of DEBUNKING. Of what Ali Sina and commenters say.

There is ONE opinion put forward and that ONE opinion you try to DEBUNK.

I have no such debunking intention. I have a comparing intention. When there is the ONE opinion then I respond by seeking a competing opinion to it, so that we now TWO opinions and then I try to choose the best and let that opinion win.

zitouni says:

J stillwater said : you keep stating this arabic qur'an thing.. so I have an idea… why don't you take Mr. Sina up on his challenge… and use the arabic qur'an to disprove his accusations against muhammad?

I always correct his errors in this forum

J stillwater said : You obviously believe you have a superior advantage over Mr. Sina in this regard (saying he needs psychological evaluation)… so… why not show us how Mr. Sina's misunderstanding of the arabic texts, has led him to the erroneous conclusions regarding muhammad as murderer, child molester, caravan robber, rapist, etc.? You could have the satisfaction of getting his site shut down and at the same time you could win $50,000.

Do you really believe this bulshit of $50 K . I told him in previous debate that he has to keep the money with independent commitee then we selcct judges who are world renown islamic scholars to decide the outcome of the debate . If we won then we get the money . He never replied to my request because he knows he cannot win .

J stillwater said : The fact is… it doesn't matter if a person speaks arabic or not… because it doesn't take a scholar to see that muhammad was a fraud… muhammad is who he is…

You have to be an expert to know that

J stillwater said : and every muslim knows it…

LOL what stupid exageration

J stillwater said : you cannot win a debate against Mr. Sina because what he states about muhammad is true,

You are stating the opinion of an amateur which no inteligent and sain person would take it seriously

J stillwater said : and you know the qur'an, in any language, supports Mr. Sina's argument… isnt that true, zitouni?

It could be true for ignorant like you LOL

J stillwater said : Of course it is. If it were not true, you could, and would, win a debate…

Wining of losing debate is relative word.

J stillwater said : Heck, you could just post here in the comment section your finding in the arabic… showing that Mr. Sina is mistaken… but you have not once done this. I wonder why not…

Are you blind ? check in this forun where I taught your fake expert on Islam new lesson on koran

No Muslim moron says:

"Yes all non-Muslim are deceiver."

Thanks for proving what UTTERLY EVIL BIGOTS AND RACISTS Islam makes out of its followers, you sick slave.

Islam is a very vicious form of hatred that you have exemplified perfectly, hater. It is YOU who are the deceiver and a very evil person. FOR SHAME.

No Muslim moron says:

ISLAM IS EVIL.

MOHAMMED WAS A CHILD RAPIST.

THE KORAN IS GARBAGE.

No Muslim moron says:

Ali, why do you even entertain this vile wretch, who has posted thousands of demented and lying comments on your blog? You should just ban his evil arse.

What a sick, depraved individual – he makes me feel sick to my stomach, he is so mentally ill.

No Muslim moron says:

You really are a depraved nutbag. Get a life and stop spewing hatred at everyone.

Islam is evil – and you prove it, as you are evil too. One day I hope you wake up, but I doubt it, because Islam has rotted your soul.

My god, the depth of Islam's evil never ceases to amaze me, as reflected in creepy fools like you.

No Muslim moron says:

Muslims continually prove how sick they are, as they call others "liars" when it is they themselves who lie all the time. Hey, aminriadh, we actually have EYES TO SEE the complete ugliness of Islam, just by looking at the foul countries where it subjugated the people in the most savage manner.

So, grow up, stop lying and being an utterly ignorant idiot. Islam is evil, as Ali Sina and so many others CONSTANTLY prove. With your stupid comments, all you are doing is proving that YOU are evil too – and encouraging me to hate Islam even more.

J_Stillwater says:

@Charlie… yes… and muhammad rode to heaven without any eye protection, protection from the sub zero temperatures of space, protection from the zero vacuum of space, without oxygen, without something to protect him from the infernal temperatures created by reentry into earth's atmosphere… and aminriadh actually says that it's perfectly possible…

And then, we're called lunatics for bringing these things up with muslims… but why should we be surprised… muhammad did the same thing… he came up with far-fetched things to the mekkans and then, when they said he was crazy… he went to medina… got some muscle… and came back and killed his detractors… and the muslims don't see anything strange about this behavior at all…

Over and over again the mekkans asked muhammad's uncle to do something about muhammad's endless tormenting of them and their families… but nothing was ever done… so… after being pushed to the limit by this madman… when they decided to take things into their own hands… muhammad gets a revelation that it's okay to kill them… wow… of course he did. These days we would have this man committed to an asylum and heavily medicated on anti-psychotics… and yet, muslims cannot see this… and people keep dying for nothing…

J Stillwater

zitouni says:

Ali sina said : I read the Quran in its context and know the history of Islam and it is clear to me that you haven't.

stop lying man . I have recommed you to take sycological evualation , have you done that ? . You have no clue about koran because you have not read it in your life . Yes you read translation of koran , but it is not koran my dear LOL . You are famous of quoting verses out of context and when you are caught you ran for cover LOL .

J_Stillwater says:

@aminriadh… the free word of mouth advertising you will be giving Mr. Sina's site will be priceless (not to mention all the other sites referenced here). I say go for it. What the world needs right now if for as many muslims to come to this site as possible and read your posts… followed by the responses of others here…

You may find this hard to believe… but… there's a reason you don't see muslims defending you here. And, contrary to what you may think, it isn't because they're not here… or because they've given up. It's because they have no rebuttal to the arguments presented here, but, the visitor numbers at alexa don't lie… muslims are here… and they certainly NEED to be here… because the world is crying for an end to islam… people are dying… over what? Flying mules and 60 cubit Adam? Flat earth and sex with 9 year old girls? Satan playing with your rear end when you leave it unprotected by a mound of sand? Satan living in your ears? Jinns climbing on each other's shoulders up to heave to eavesdrop? Someone blew themselves up in Pakistan today believing they were going straight to 72 black eyed maidens… and here you are, defending all the things I've just mentioned as if any of them were true or even possible… claiming your superior intelligence and belittling those who pin you into a corner…

Please… please… spread the word about this site… because no matter how you spin it… people will come here in droves to see what all the fuss is about… and many of these people will leave islam… and that cannot be a bad thing in light of the current state of affairs in the world…

J Stillwater

Azzurri girl C says:

Dear Muslim Man,
I fail to see how this thread is all about hatred for Muslims. Perhaps, some of the comments, but the story is in fact about my love for a Muslim man. In my marriage, my Christian family welcomed him into our home. Yes, sometimes people made off color remarks, but I trusted my husband. We are both young. Money and jobs were hard to come by when he first arrived, so I trusted him enough to live in my family home. He never appreciated this and my family was never the type of family he wanted, but a Muslim could give him a free hookah and he would act like they were angels! I'm not saying that I was perfect in this relationship, I am also flawed. Still, no woman deserves to be told words of hate and hurt like I was and I know in my heart, no non-Muslim guy would have hurt me to this extent. Yes, lots of Western guys cheat and lie, but I doubt there are guys who collaborate against their wives with complete strangers! Him and this awful man he met have ZERO in common except their religion and language. My husband is half his age and they are from different countries.
O.K. I grew up viewing Islam as exotic and believing it was peaceful as I watched movies like Hideous Kinky (1998) starring Kate Winslet in 1970s Marrakesh. A part of my heart will always be in the Middle East, especially when I recall the person I thought my husband was! However, true Islam is not like the Islam portrayed in movies based on the 1960s and 1970s. To all the girls out there. it doesn't matter how young or pretty you are, don't believe you are different! In my case, I knew my husband had hurt other girls before me, even a girl from his same country and same religion, so I really shouldn't be surprised. With each relationship, Muslim guys look for more submissive women. When the woman starts showing signs of strength and confidence, they leave.

aminriadh says:

"The religious apartheid was promoted by Muhammad and is practiced by Muslims all over the world."

No it isn't.

– – –

"All I am doing is to ask non-Muslims to at least respect it and practice it too. We can't be Muslims in other ways but we can be in this way. Don't you love me of this? "

Obviously not.

– – –

Reminds one of Hitler doesn't it. . . .

Making lying claims . . . as this!

aminriadh says:

May I be the first to express my suspicions about "Muslim Man"

Another tactic!

– – –

"His war were not war but raids (ghazwa). He raided villages and towns who had done him nothing, to plunder them. Even before coming to power he used to go to various places and meet different people telling them he is a prophet and if they join him he will make the rich through raid and plunder. I am not making this up. This is in the Sira and it will be also in my movie. "

Sure – then you could add references to the above claims.

The thing is Sina simply picks and chooses what he likes. He has already confessed. Before writing the book – his objective WAS to find material to condemn.

He simply is NOT interested in the material which contradicts his mindset.

– – –

This isn't being objective. And is fallacious use of logic.

And this method does NOT lead to the truth.

More will be revealed at:
http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/

But I have already examined his methodology.

– – –

He does the same thing with the Quran.

He ha ALREADY made his mind up – Islam and Muslims are guilty of something.

Anything flying in the face of it . . . . . excuses, excuses.

I have REPEATEDLY shown this to be the case!

– – – –

"This is in the Sira and it will be also in my movie. "

Hence the movie will be the same.

A great deception.

– – –

But we all know the failure of the book . . . NOT even his supporters have read it.

I have NOT come across one person yet – claiming they have . .. . and are ready to discuss it.

Folk would rather give him money to spout hate against Islam – rather than buy the bleeding book!

Isn't that tellin'

aminriadh says:

". I noted in a recent report that an average of 100,000 British converted into Islam in the last 12 years."

Which report?

– – –

"that those who came to Islam from skepticism and rejection may become leaders of Islam. History has shown this. "

Such as.

– – –

By the way . . . where are you from?

Elizabeth says:

When I was in college, I met an Afghanistan man who was a graduate student. I found out that he was not a Christian. At the time, I knew he wasn't from the USA, and had heard about foreign students trying to marry to become citizens. So, I had nothing to do with him. I was raised Catholic, and ended up marrying a Catholic. He was not any better than who you married, and after 3 kids and 6 years of marriage which was physically and emotionally abusive, I decided for my well being, that divorce was the only thing. After threats that he would run off with the kids, the divorce was final, and I thought that he would try to abide by the court order, although an attorney he took off with the kids, and I didn't see them for 3 1/2 years. I put their pictures with a missing children's organization, and with prayers to the Lord, and asking Him if He wanted me to have them back, to return them to me. After he ran off with the kids, and before I got them back, I decided to give my heart to Jesus, and stopped attending the Catholic church. I gave my life to Jesus, and attended a Bible believing church. I would never have given my life to Jesus, if I did not walk away from being Catholic.
I would say the best decision would be to get divorced, don't let him know where you are. Study the Bible, and attend a church that encourages you to do so. There are good men out there, and those who have attended meetings to help them become better Christian husbands and fathers.
I know that what you have witnessed seems like a nightmare, I have been in situations that are like nightmares. Life can be better after this, and there is no other way. Too many who are not Christians try to say that Christianity belittles women, but the Bible says that all are equal in God's eyes. The husband should show love to his wife, and the wife should respect their husband. I am taking a class at church on love and respect. Women want love, and men want respect. A good church would teach you about this, and the scripture.

Joe says:

Dear Muslim Man,

I hope that you see that many hear are entering into open discussion..

This is not about right an wrong this is about truth and the salvation of our spirit..

Also you use the word hatred.. i offer the word rejection.. rejection of the teachings of mohammad because of the overwhelming evidence that mohammad is Shirt and through His violent acts has forced people into submission or slavery is a better word.

as Ali Sina has pointed out he has a book and an open challenge which he offers you and you scholar to an open debate and $50k each if your prove hm wrong .. follow this link http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/the-cha… for full details.

If there are people that are angry, there are many reasons.. and this anger is caused by the words written by a man.. if the quran were from God it would about peace and no doubt in man's mind, and so there would be no reason for violence..

but you know as a muslim thefre is much violence and the people that suffer most because of islam are muslims.

aminthemystic says:

"Keep showing. Let us see if anyone believes you. I don't know whether you can fall for your reasoning but I doubt anyone else will."

Sure but who will fall for this absurdity:

"This would most likely put their lives in peril and I also do not know their real
names. Even though they remain anonymous, I am immensely indebted to
them."

See you sacrifice your rationality – HATE is a powerful emotion. Like love. BOTH need to be kept in check.

– – –

"I don't know whether you can fall for your reasoning but I doubt anyone else will."

As we are BITTERLY opposed dearest . . . it is kind of obvious for you to say so . . .

The merit is in the argument. . .

– – –

"And your reasoned that when this is said with a thong in cheek it is hate, but when it is said with a strait face it is not. "

How nice of you to lie . . . . THIS IS AN OPEN LIE.

One who lies is a liar.

My reasoning is regarding the "intent" behind the saying. Which you obviously forgot to mention.

By the way it is TONGUE in cheek . . . .thong is a type of lingerie – women's knickers.

Or were you thinking of arse cheeks?

– – –

"I love it when you epitomize the hypocrisy of the Muslim mind and show the world that I am not exaggerating for saying Muslims are not quite like the rest of mankind. There is something deficient in their morality and conscience that make our co-existence with them impossible. "

Which quite clearly makes YOU the hate monger – and not me.

Yet you will attempt to lob this at me.

– – –

Hence when I expose your book and your little lies over Quran – you have NO ANSWER.

Not until today anyway.

Elmore says:

Saher, If you are asked to defend your religion, is this the way to go about it ? All you need was to call a well written article 'fabrication' without providing evidence of fabrication. This is the reason why you Muslims engage in riot when your religion is criticized. You ought to provide a powerful evidence to back up your claim of fabrication; People of the book defend their religion with pen and speech making violent reaction unnecessary

aminriadh says:

" You believe in that asinine claim even though it is ridiculous, illogical, absurd and impossible. "

Nope – this MERELY your claim.

You are roundly defeated. . . if you discuss anything specific.

– – –

"But you accuse me of faking characters when there is nothing strange and out of ordinary in them. "

There is . .. oh but there so is.

They conform to YOUR views. As pointed out.

– – – –

" Million of women have very similar stories about how they have been tricked and abused by Muslim men."

Where? This is OBVIOUSLY wrong. Else – evidence.

– – –

"What part of this story is out of the ordinary that make you doubt it and what part of the claims of Muhammad make sense that you have no problem believing? "

This story conforms to your perceptions and views.

As repeatedly shown – when you discuss Islam – you are always so far . . . defetead. Your little errors, lies and deception is highlighted.

Here YOU are just mouthing off.

– – –

"You Muslims are truly strange creatures. You see black as white and white as black. You love lies and loath the truth. You are attracted to evil and abhor goodness. It is not that you are sometimes wrong. You are always wrong and it is not that you are a little wrong. You are wrong as wrong can be. "

Merely claims and spiel . . . it has NOT merit.

When it actually comes to discussing ANYTHING specific about Islam.

YOU always lose.

Your errors and lies are ALWAYS highlighted.

= = =

The amount of little debates – you have RAN from is breath taking.

zitouni says:

what are you trying to prove concerning the verse 8 61 . You have shown one opinion and ignore the rest of opinions . You need to read the tafsir of this verse in arabic beacsue it is one page long

᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

So you tell me about that Imam who tell crazy things to her husband !

᠌᠌᠌᠌᠌ says:

I am forwarding following for psychic reading and psychoanalysis.

"White men are a million times better than Muslim men in every sense. "

"Million of women have very similar stories about how they have been tricked and abused by Muslim men."