I Am Gay, Please Help!
I am a 22 year old man, Muslim from Nigeria. I am very devoted to my religion and my parents. But my faith is making my life miserable, because of my sexual orientation, i am gay, i knew it since i was 6 or 7, i tried to change it since for almost 10 years now, it is only wish for during the Ramadan for more than a decade, i prayed every night that Allah make me normal or at least make me attracted to women, but so far nothing has changed, worse my desire for sex with men is only growing every day, and i am desperate.
I tried having sex with a girl of my age hoping for a miracle, but it was a disaster and a humiliation as i didn’t have an erection, worse i was disgusted.
Every day for me is a torture, i can’t to the mosque cause i feel dirty and guilty for having such thoughts in Allah ‘s house, i feel like everyone around me knows, or that the angels are watching me , and i am ashamed of what god might think of me.
I don’t have male friends, i felt in love with both of my two previous best friends when i was 14 and 17.
I am lonely, miserable and desperate. Every night i close my eyes i find myself hoping not to wake up the next day.And i have so many questions in my mind :
Why did god make people gay but forbids homosexual intercourse ?
Why did is god punishing me like that?
Is God punishing my dad?
Why isn’t Allah answering my prayers?
How am i supposed to leave like this?
How can i have kids if can’t even have an erection with a girl?
What if i loose it?My faith is shaking i don’t wanna go to hell. I would kill myself to end this but i would go to hell too.
Help me please, i don’t understand, give some answers.PS: I know that some imams can’t accept the fact that people are born gay or think that homosexuality is a choice but i can assure you in my case it’s not, i would have never chosen that.
Thank you.
Rafiq
Dear Rafiq (name changed),
The first thing you should do is to get rid of your guilt. This is not possible as long as you believe in Islam. You have to understand that God will not send humans to hell. This whole idea is a lie. There is nothing you can do that is offensive to God. Of course if you hurt other people then I assume there may be consequences. If there is an afterlife, there must also be some justice. But God will not punish people for believing or not believing or for any other reason, especially for their sex life. If God exists, he cannot be so petty.
We humans, compared to God are infinitely smaller than ants are to us. Can an ant do anything that could offend you to such an extent that you may want to burn her? Can a cat that is much closer to us do anything that you would want to burn him? Of course this is silly. You’d be crazy if you could be offended by an ant or a cat and want to punish them. This belief that God will punish and reward people for their beliefs or for their sexual activities is attributing insanity to God. If God exist, this belief is blasphemy.
Don’t believe in that lie. Don’t believe in Islam and anything Muhammad said. He was a psychopath who wanted to have control over people’s lives and their thoughts. Fear is the tool of domination for psychopaths.
Once you get rid of your belief in Islam and your irrational guilt about your sexuality, more than half of your problems will be solved. This guilt is the killer. Get rid of it. If you still think Muhammad was a prophet of God, read my book and you will be convinced that he was a mentally sick man. He was a pathological liar.
Now as for you being a gay, of course living in an Islamic country makes your life very difficult. This is not something that can be changed overnight. For attitudes to change, Muslims must leave Islam.
Also no one knows why some people become gay. Some say it is genetic. I don’t believe that it is genetic because if it were so, it would have become extinct millions of years ago. Since homosexuals generally don’t procreate, a homosexual gene would not have passed to future generations.
An ancient poet called Sappho wrote about love between women in 600 BC in the Islands of Lesbos, a district in Greece. Although most of her her poems are destroyed, the legend has it that because all the men in the Island were massacred, women turned to each other for love and sex.
It is a fact that adults who have never had sexual feelings for same sex can develop it. Despite this evidence those who want to live in self-deception insist that homosexuality is genetic. The women of Lesbos, the Lesbians, prove them wrong. But how can you convince someone who prefers lies to truth?
There are many movies and literature that actually promote homosexuality. When I had a TV and used to waste my time in front of that box I saw several movies that were clearly promoting homosexuality to heterosexual women as a form of liberation from their abusive marital life. Today they teach it in schools. This is the Left’s agenda to destroy the family.
Despite this brazen propaganda to promote homosexuality, homosexuals deny categorically that homosexuality is a learned behavior. It is kind of like Islam being a religion of peace. On one hand Muslims promote jihad and murder people and on the other hand they insist that it is the religion of peace.
When lies take over our lives, truth is always the casualty. To silence the critics of Islam or of homosexuality they label people with derogatory adjectives such as Islamophobic and homophobic. Both these terms are devised to silence any discussion about Islam and homosexuality. You can never find the truth under tyranny of thoughts.
Many factors contribute to the development of homosexual attractions. Same-sex attraction is the result of a complex interaction of personality, biological inheritance, and developmental experiences.
Homosexuality is often the symptom of deeper inner psychological conflicts. For example, a girl may lose her mother at a very young age. She may feel a void in her for maternal love. She may feel attraction to other women to fulfill this void and that attraction is erroneously expressed in a sexual way. This may provide instant intimacy and gratification but leaves the underling cause unsatisfied.
Also boys need to create a strong bond with their father. If the relationship is not ideal, emotional scars are created that affect their identity, including their sexual identity. Often people growing up in dysfunctional families are not aware of it because that is the only model they know.
These emotional struggles can be rejection, abuse, lack of self-steam, confusion in gender identity or fear. However, often people who have sexual problems can’t recognize this and hide the real issue and deny it. The need may not be sexual at all and the solution is also not sexual.
In my opinion homosexuality is formed through classical conditioning. Pavlov’s experiment may explain it. If an individual is conditioned to respond when a neutral stimulus (in the case of homosexuality, someone of the same sex) is presented along with a stimulus of some significance (in this case, sexual pleasure) the individual will link the two together and may be aroused by objects that are not sexually meaningful, such as a person of the same sex.
This association can take place at any age. But like all conditional responses, the younger the person the stronger will be the link between the stimulus and the response.
Animals can also be conditioned. In fact the experiment was first performed by Pavlov on his dog. Just as a dog can salivate by hearing a bell ringing, something that has nothing to do with food, a person can feel aroused by anything, including someone of their own sex if that thing is linked to sexual pleasure, love or romantic feeling. This explains also fetishism and why someone can be sexually aroused by a woman’s shoe or a piece of her apparel. It is the connection that the individual makes in his head that makes the fetish sexually significant. Animals can become homosexual – for the same reason we human become homosexual.
Sadly, the subject of homosexuality has become a taboo. No one can study it objectively. On one hand we have Muslims who think gay people should be killed and that is the end of the story and on the other hand westerners believe any objective discussion of homosexuality is homophobia and bigotry. The result is perpetual suffering for countless innocent souls. Humans are stupid creatures.
Can a gay person develop sexual attraction for a person of the opposite gender? There are many who claim to have done it. It might be difficult but not impossible. It must be done gradually. I have read also stories of people who claim they had no sexual feeling for the persons of the same sex and developed that feeling later in life. One gay person who wrote in the forum of Faithfreedom.org, several years ago, said he was not gay at all. He started watching gay porn for laughter and gradually became curious and interested until he fantasized and then acted upon it.
If what this person said is true and if the stories of gay people who have become heterosexual are true then it must be possible for a gay person to develop sexual feelings for the opposite sex and effectively recover.
The recovery will be easier if you don’t entertain sexual fantasies with another man. Every time you fantasize, your attraction to men become stronger. Instead, if you fantasize about women, you gradually will feel attracted to them. Brain is a powerful tool. You are what you think. Think what you want to be and you will be it.
It is a sure thing that life for you in an Islamic country is not going to be easy. If you can migrate to a non-Muslim country you will have a much better chance to live a happy life. Another thing you must do is to get rid of your guilt. This guilt is the main killer. It is a false guilt. God will never punish you for being a gay. If He is God, he will love you just the way you are. You are not committing any crime or sin and your thoughts are not disgusting. Don’t let false beliefs destroy your life. You are in control of your thoughts. You can stop believing in a false religion and liberate yourself from its yoke.
There are three things that I suggest you should do.
1- Get rid of your belief in Islam because it is a lie and get rid of your false guilt. That false guilt torments you more than anything else.
2- Try to migrate to a non-Muslim country by all means.
3- Slowly, try to awaken in you the sexual attraction towards women. If one guy can develop attraction for men by watching gay porn, maybe the reverse is also true and you can develop attraction for women by watching them in a sensual way. If homosexuality is caused by classical conditioning, which is what I believe, then one may be able to reverse it by the same process by changing the stimulus. This process may be slow. Don’t expect result overnight. The process must be pleasurable. Don’t force yourself. Watch the faces and the bodies of nude women in erotic poses and discover their beauty. Do it slowly and regularly until you start seeing them sexually appealing. You may pleasure yourself at the same time envisioning having sex with them. What you want to do is connect the part of your brain that is aroused by sexual pleasure to women and their bodies. Your brain neurons must create new connections linking women with eroticism. Avoid watching porn that involves men even if that is a heterosexual act.
You tried to sleep with one woman and it was a disaster. That is because it was too much at once. You have to do this slowly without any pressure for performance. Do this alone first and once you start feeling attraction to women, find a girlfriend, explain your struggle to her and you’ll find that she will be more than happy to help you.
You may never be able to get rid of your homosexual feelings. Don’t try it because it does not work and it will cause you frustration. It is fine if you feel attracted to men. Accept yourself as you are and be in peace with yourself. Just don’t act upon it and don’t engage in fantasizing about men. I may find many women attractive, but this does not mean I should act upon my feeling.
There is an old Chinese story I mentioned before about a young student going to his master complaining about his handicaps and telling him how he has tried and has failed to overcome them. His master draws a line on the ground and says if you can make this line shorter, without erasing it or covering it, you will be able to overcome your flaws. The student thinks and thinks and finally gives up saying this is one of those puzzles that has no solution. His master says, it has, watch carefully. He then draws another much longer line next to it and says, look, isn’t the first line shorter? The moral of the story is that instead of striving to overcome what you perceive as flaws in you, ignore them and instead work on other areas of your life and make them stand out. Your flaws may never go away, but they become insignificant in comparison to your strengths. Eventually, when you draw many longer lines, they become invisible.
I am of the opinion that homosexuality is a disorder, not unlike eating disorder. Some people are more prone to be obese than others. But this is not a determining factor. Obese people can overcome their eating disorder and have a normal body. It takes more work and more awareness for them than it takes for someone who has no problem with food.
Don’t commit suicide. Even if you never get rid of your homosexuality, you can live a happy and fulfilling life by getting rid of your guilt and by migrating to a non-Muslim country. You can take these two steps easily. In Nigeria, go and live in Christian areas and befriend non-Muslims.
Strive to excel in what you can be good at. It may be a profession or a vocation and serve humanity in that capacity. If you can discover heterosexual attraction, fall in love with a woman and form a family that would be great. If you can’t, it is also fine. Many great people, like Socrates, Leonardo Da Vinci and Michael Angelo were gay. You can be gay and have a very fulfilling life.
There are sites that can help. This is a good one with sound advices.
http://www.samesexattraction.org/
Wish you all the best
Ali Sina
Dear Ali Sina,
1) Thanks much for your website. It has caused me to think quite a bit.
2) I am EXTREMELY disappointed and upset that an intelligent person like you would not know that orientation– either straight or gay — is biological at root, with, of course, psychological factors in its expression. (Crude and poor analogy would be hunger/type of food we like to eat). It is obvious that no one, female, male, or inter-, chooses which gender to be sexually attracted to. Recently, scientists have mapped out the biological causation, which is not 'genetic', but 'epigenetic' along with in-utero hormones playing a role. http://www.nimbios.org/press/FS_homosexuality Here is the link to the professors' article, published about a year ago http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167
I strongly urge that you read both and that you disabused your thinking of the idea that orientation can be regarded as deficient, learned, reversible, or an illness in any way.
Some final stray thoughts to consider- Do you remember choosing to be straight? Do you remember choosing to feel lust at all at puberty? Wasn't just 'out of the blue'? What caused it? And so on…
And…
What if orientation were an individual's actual choice, really? (How would a pre-pubescent be able to experience both to then choose?!) Shouldn't that then be that one individual's choice, and that alone?
And…
You did a great disservice to the 22yr-old Ethiopian. He needs to understand that he is gay and that it is only a curse to the extent that is on account of the ignorance and hatefulness of certain other people. He needs to do all he can to move to where he can have a chance to meet a suitable boyfriend.
Being inclined towards science don't need IQ, it needs curiosity.
I mean 'Visionary'
Homosex can collapsed the family structre. So you just avoid it and try to have attraction with opposite gender.
Rafiq,
Check this out about gene deterioration (no mention of homosexuality in the article though): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation
And this is a forum discussion by people such as the community I live in: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081…
Draw your own conclusion, Rafiq.
Rafiq, there are brain scans done on gay men and scientific studies conducted over the past years which suggest a proportion of homosexuality are genetically caused (i am saying some homosexuals are borned this way, it is a type of genetic defect like many other medical ones)
I have a couple of links that you may want to check on, but they are laborish to read because it is quite medical and technical:
http://www.pnas.org/content/102/20/7356.short http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_o…
The above 2 links explained gene deterioration in another way. It propose that bad genes are not eliminated, because mankind got smarter over time to overcome per-mature diseases, elimination and death, so these traits get passed on when they reproduce. So a couple of your ancestors might have this gay tendency and it gets passed down, skip a few generations and you got it. Like that? So it's not your fault, right?
Just like if two of my ancestors have an abnormal copy of gene that had the tendency to fail to regulate blood sugar level, and when they got married, this can become a dominant genetic trait amongst my ancestral lineage.
Basically there are an increasing number of genetic defects. As medical science gets more advanced, it helps people yet trips us all. Its like patching up a hole, and in so doing opening up three new ones.
Sigh!
Accept yourself. It's not your fault.
Hi Rafiq, I am sorry to hear of your plight. In my community we live along side anyone who have a choice to live the lifestyle he/she wants. I have homosexual friends, some by choice, by influence of peers, but there are some born this way, like you.
Stay with me, Rafiq, I will address homosexuality soon.
To me, religions generally are primitive and backwards and do not update themselves. The religious books are written ages ago and most people don't understand those books are written in the context of the times then. But times have changed. However, the books are not updated.
The worshippers who live with you interpret the religious books literally and narrowly and often impose their interpretation of the books on each other to foster a sense of belonging.
Stay with me, Rafiq, I will address homosexuality soon.
May I ask you, you love your religion, and as a Muslim, you believe your god created you. How can your god create you with male genitals and give you a natural attractions to males as early as childhood. Then tells you it is wrong. But it is already what you are. So you apologies to god, promise to turn over a new leaf every minute of your life and yet return to who you are born as, the moment you finish your prayer. This is like a living hell (if you believe there is a hell, that is to say). So what sort of kind good god does this sort of thing? For fun? For his recreational purposes? And what sort of loving community tell you you are a sinner a liar and will not accept you unless you change, something which you cant since you tried for half your life? And you still love your religion and your community. You are one kind soul of a guy, man!
Rafiq, there is a slant to this homosexual thing. If you are a muslim you would believe your god makes everything including the first male and female human, right? Then they probably reproduce a bunch of kids and that's how there are so many human beings now, right? Okay, but how? Surely the kids must have been sleeping with one another and many times over? But your religion, as well as many others, tabooed that now, right? Correct me if I am wrong, because I am not into religions, but Muslims currently dont take your sister and brother and say hey lets get married? At least not in my country I am from, there arent many Muslims here, but my Muslim friends don't seem to be marrying their siblings like a regular thing? ….. So in religion, there is a time where certain actions are allowed and there is a time where certain actions are called wrong? So right and wrong is relative to time?
Stay with me, Rafiq, don't go yet.
There is an aspect that people don't realise. It's founded upon the sciences. That the human genes corrode a tiny little bit with each DNA duplication during reproduction and creation of a new human. Or for that matter, all species, including animals. So over the entire long human history, the human DNA corrodes. Man live shorter lives then people of the past, if not for advancement of medical sciences now and etc. I couldn't locate the sites I wanted so I hastily found this for you. Unfortunately it is a Christian site. I am not propagating any religion because I am not interested in religion. Just read the relevant parts and google the rest on the net. http://www.icr.org/article/genetic-decline-humani…
Okay, now to answer your question, Rafiq:
What I am saying is that while in ancient times, religions forbid homosexuality because the then human DNA was closer to what your god made humans to be, so homosexualty was viewed as perverts, and men and women are borned with sexual orientations that are of closer resemblance of their first man and woman species.
But now is now. Our DNA copies have corroded so much already. Many of us are borned with genetic defects and in your case, sorry if I might offend you, a mismatched sexual orientation. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Someone else is borned with diabetes. Not because he didn't watch his diet! He was borned with it!
If your community and religion cannot accept you as who you really are, as they do not update their morals and codes of ethics with the times, then I would say, you are a living example of someone who is suffering under such a, i would call, primitive and oppressive, society.
Rafiq, you are a gay. We accept you.
You ask for help. We can't give you. It is up to you to decide how to live out your life. Continue living under primitive and outdated values in your religion and community and you will never find peace and happiness. And of course you can't find acceptance. To your community, even so many here virtually, you will have to change to be accepted. To me, that is not treating you humanely.
don't listen to Rafiq he is not a Muslim but a someone who is insulting your faith. Do you really want to listen to this him? I wouldn’t not especially when he is saying offensive things to my religion. I bet you he is not a real Muslim that’s why he changed his name. Listen to me brother as a Muslim sister I will tell you that this is a test from Allah. He is not doing this because he is punishing you put to see what you do. Let me tell you what to do. Do not engage in any form of homosexuality activates. Go to Allah's house and pray to Allah in his house to help you and tell a Mullah your problems. As long as you have not done anything gay you are not a sinner. God understands that you are going through a rough time and he also knows that you are not gay (as long as you have not done anything sexual or do not have a gay partner) because he knows that the Satan is putting these bad intentions into your mind. How do I know? Well just listen to my story. I am a Muslim girl who lives in the UK and a few years ago I also use to have bad thoughts of other women's in my mind-I was so upset and lonely and I hated myself for this and thought why this was happening to me. I was so ashamed but I eventually got the courage to tell my sister about it and she told me not to worry about it. I asked her why and she said that no one is born gay and God does not make someone gay but a person becomes gay out of their own choice (when they decide to have homosexual activates or have a civil partner). If someone has sexual feelings and thoughts and does not act upon it; it is not their fault as the Satan is implanting these bad thoughts and intentions into their mind purposely to take them away from the path of Islam. Now I am 20 year old and I know that I was never gay as it was the Satan’s fault but not mines and not God’s. Even now when I sometimes have bad thoughts I ignore these bad thoughts and intentions and think to myself that I am not weak and I will never to this to God, but instead I think that this is Satan’s way of trying to encouraging me to make mistakes and sins. Look brother let me tell you something just because I had these bad thoughts does not mean that I had to act upon it or become a lesbian. This is God’s test to you. This is the Satan’s fault not yours and not God’s. You need to be strong just like I did Remember this is your choice. You can either anger God your creator or listen to people who tell you that it is okay to be gay and if you listen to those people instead of Islam then you will be punished and remember on the Day of Judgment Day you will regret listening to those people who told you it was okay to be gay. YOU ARE NOT GAY. Don’t be afraid to visit the Mosque-if you are having bad intentions when entering a religious place do not feel ashamed its not your fault it’s the Satan’s fault. Most of the time when I am praying I have bad thoughts and bad imagery coming into my mind but I just ignore it and continue praying because I know I am not going to get sins for it because the Satan is implanting these bad things into my head deliberately to disturb my prayers. Allah will be so proud of you if you decide not to be gay even if you are going through a bad time and are having homosexual feeling (these feeling are fake-only something created by the Satan almost like an illusion). Make Allah proud by making the right decision and especially if you say that you love Allah and your religion. You are not alone and Allah is closer to you then your own vein. I will pray for you brother to help you just the way that Allah had tested and helped me. In addition the Angels of Allah will not judge you because they are not human they only write your sins and good deeds. The Angels do not judge someone as they know that Allah is the only one who should. Do not feel ashamed if you have not done anything homosexual because God created you and he understands that it is not your fault. I use to feel so ashamed about what God would think about me when I use to have those thoughts but then I realised God wouldn’t be angry with me because I haven’t done anything. Every time you have a sexual thought or feeling think about God and just ignore them because God is there for you and he will reward you for doing the right thing. Do not listen to the guy who says his name is `Rafiq` he is not helping you but instead trying to lead you to the path of the Satan. Remember he will not take your sins or faults for you on judgement day and he will not go to hell for you. Love Allah and your religion and do not listen to this sad, small minded maniac who I pity for his sinful doings & sayings in this world which he surely will regret in his afterlife. May Allah help you my brother . Also visit the doctor for your erection problem-this is something that is also common for males that are not sexual (learnt it in CPHSE).
Please do not watch porn it is disgusting. Some of the people in this page are very disturbing and have no morales. Watching porn is a sin itself. Do not listen to these sick people
sorry but these men are not muslim if they are gay. You are an ignorant idiot as you don't understand Islam. Islam is a religion not people. These men are not Muslims and they are not definately Islam. How can a religion be a group of men. Also terrorists are not muslims as they are killing people. Allah does not allow the killing of other people whether they are Muslims or not.
It's no error buddy.
Dear Manojkumar
You can be happy even as homosexual. There is nothing wrong with you. Homosexuality is a habit that is formed often at a very early age. Any habit can be learned and unlearned. Changing habits are not easy. But persistence will pay off. The important thing is that even if you don’t succeed in this, you should not feel bad about yourself. A great number of very successful people were and are homosexual. In some cultures the society punishes homosexuals. This is the fault of the society. However, should you decide to overcome your homosexuality help is available. There are many online sites that are created by ex- homosexuals. These people have been where you are and they know what you go through. They are not judgmental and they can give you good advice.
Fighting against homosexual tendencies is no different from fighting against over eating. It is very difficult but it is not impossible and when you succeed you feel very good. Even if you don’t succeed you should still love yourself and feel good. The biggest hurdle in overcoming any addiction forming habit is the sense of guilt.
I wish you success and happiness
my problem is i want to recover from homosex and be happy and enjoy my lifes…please friends help me to survive
thanks sina ,i also like rafiq ,i will do sex with men,now my friend broken my friendship due to this homosex,now i am suffering and get pain withthanks sinaout my friend,
,,
"I am a non-Muslim and from India; though I had got few very good Muslim friends, but still I didn't like Muslims in general!!!"
What a lie!
Read the Bible. It tells you there that a man should be with a woman. No men lying with men will inherit God's kingdom. It is not normal to be gay. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out, use your instinct. If it tells you it's wrong it's because it is. Gay men become gay by watching porn, no matter what they say. No one is born gay. If you have bad thoughts you have to get rid of them by praying to God, don't listen to these poeple.
I think there is a lot of truth about pornography making you more accepting of certain sexual acts. It's intended to make you want to watch more and perhaps even curouse about sampling this for your self. Casual sex has its dangers . I wonder if we over sexual people rather than looking at the person . I accept that genuine same sex love is possible and that stable relationships are better than casual ones. I am a Christian but I would not condem any kind of loving relationship between consenting adults. I would say that porn is not a good thing and does not bring happiness nd can mislead you into thinking your something your not. Be your self even if you need time to find the real you , be loving , be caring be helpfull to others . I need to do this as much as any one.
Dr. Ali Sina, I am really impressed by your wisdom and knowledge about all worldly and spiritual affairs. I am a non-Muslim and from India; though I had got few very good Muslim friends, but still I didn't like Muslims in general!!! Your ideas have really opened up my mind, now I really do understand both Muslims and Islam better 🙂 Any negative thoughts about Muslims is gone!!! Earlier I really used to wonder as my few Muslims friends, though very nice human, sometimes behave in a very strange manner!!! Now, I really pity those guys for being mislead. I promote your website and blogs to even non-muslims. May the God help you in the noble initiative you are doing!!!! As many of your readers have already said, you are no less than a messiah 🙂
But some 40% of gay males do not engage in anal intercourse.
And I don't see how what you have said is pertinent to gay WOMEN.
int he holly quran say .. you are free in earth ddo what you want to do .. in the end you wil go to hell and allah win ..
why , allah created us like a man and women .. is you who have a problém .. is not allah .. you who want be a Gay .. and the holly quran allah say there nation of lot .. lot prophet of allah peace be open hem say to them do not do that .. but they didn't listen to hem .. ana allah the send hem all of hem to hell .. so my friend if you want be patient in this life or test you wil pay for that i swear ..
for ALI SIN your lost man .. you hate islam i see that but in the end you lose and allah win .. is easy allah say that in the holly quran .. so don't try to destorted all what the qyuran say and you replace them with your empty opinion .. but is not my problém i'm muslim and i know i'm in the réligion of truth duh 😉
Which part of India you from mood elevators?
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It is not for you. I am sure God forbid, you have such problem. I my self dont know how to make any food. If I am not wrong Afghans and Arabs might be following what i said about evading homosexuality.
Next time teach us how to make Spanish omelet.
There are two roles in homosexuality , giver who penetrates and receiver, who accepts the penetration. If gay has the feeling of giver only. He can have his female partner as a receiver, with her due permission.
……you hit at the root of homosexuality……
….so far as it is a personal choice…….that needs to be respected within the mandate of democracy………but dont you think it is a a disease that needs a cure rather than scorn or mere sympathy………it is a psychological disorder…..if tomorrow some psychopath……says he feels like banging every beautiful girl in the street what would you say about it sir??????????/
….i would only say…..your are not enlightened…….you are over-enlightened to an idiotic extent……..not every thing dealing with human being offers a precise empirical analysis…..after all that is the subtle difference between natural science and behavioural science…….I HOPE YOU GET IT…….
SIRJEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! I REALLY BOW TO YOU TODAY (you are miles away…..but i literally did it in your honor)….you are a teacher, a reformer, a daredevil, a psychologist, you hit the nail right at the spot……….it is a more a psychological disorder than it has anything to do with genetic make up or DNA……..it is basically a disease……….and you summed up it very well in varying context…….if human scummed to the situations such ailments occur………
…….though i would only suggest for this guy to gain normalcy and muster enough courage to ado farewell to pisslam………..and to befriend normal human beings…..and develop normal humane psyche………..thanks
I totally stand against the torture or insults or Homosexuals in any setting. I do believe that as humans, we have challenges, some of this challenges we have to learn to live normal lives with. i once asked a friend who told me he thinks his being gay is genetic. He was effeminate, and felt that it could also have affected his hormonal and mental attraction, whilst there is rising medical proof that there is a genetic predisposition to Homosexually, its practice should be looked at with a lots of care! Let me make it clear before i am contradicted that i don't support same sex relationship, but i acknowledge the fact that it could be medically explained. Let me ask this questions; aint people born with disease conditions? aint people born with impairment? aint people born differently abled? the good thing is all of these people try to live up to life with this disabilities, they try to live a normal life regardless of their conditions, this is my call to communities and societies, adopting an ostrich approach for the problem of homosexuality, this would not help but rather the community should acknowledge the fact of its presence and problems then they can come up with steps to help people live normal lives in spite of their homosexual orientations
I agree with you in some aspects and i totally stand against the torture or insults or Homosexuals in any setting. I do believe that as humans, we have challenges, some of this challenges we have to learn to live normal lives with. i once asked a friend who told me he thinks he is gay because of genetic reasons. He was effeminate, and felt that it could also have affected his hormonal and mental attraction, whilst there is rising medical proof that there is a genetic predisposition to Homosexually, its practice should be looked at with a lot of care! Let me make it clear before i am contradicted that i don't support same sex relationship, but i acknowledge the fact that it could be medically explained. i ask this question, aint people born with disease conditions? aint people born with impairment? aint people born differently abled? the good thing is all of this people try to live up to live with this disabilities, they try to live a normal life regardless of their conditions, this is my call to communities and societies, adopting a ostrich approach for the problem of homo-sexuality would not help but rather the community should acknowledge the fact and come up with steps to help people live normal lives in spite of their sexual orientations
know before you scribble. this was written by another moronic thug like your hamhead mommad mr moses
jesus was a gay. he lived with 12 men and he slept with not a single woman(though this is disputed). but i still love him. for he is the greatest reformer and the first communist in a way. your thug mommet will pale in front of him.
i fully agree with you sir. i too am from india and though i am "straight" as they are called i am against discrimination against anyone because of their thoughts color caste sex orientation etc. homosexuality is not a disease to get cured. i know many of my friends who are not like us but are at peace with themselves.
dear boy. rafiq.
my support is always with you. this retarded society may not tolerate you or your sexuality. but know one thing for sure. this good doctor has given you the worst partly baked advise. your homosexuality is not as much a disease as he is threatening. it sure is not. but your guilt is. get rid of it. do not try to change your sexuality. it will not change. you may get broken. be proud of what you are. there is nothing to be ashamed of it-your sexuality. it is what you are. you may soon find a boy like you. do not think of it anymore. study well. aim high. get into the best university inyour country. excel in your life. you may fall in love with a likeminded boy then. you have a good life ahead i am sure and wish oyu good luck. and most of all renounce this muhammadeianism. it will never accept you. it will try to kill you if it comes to know about you. worst it may try to harm you through those persons who you love the most. do not reveal yourself in your society for your safety.i wish you a great life ahead.
no ali sina. that you know enough and more about islam does not automatically make you an authority on every thing. homosexuality iss not a disease or disorder. one is born a homosexual, and one cannot change the sexual orientation. all adolescents pass through a phase of this thought during their development and get their orientation fixed. but a gay is born a gay. if he or she secretes more hormones as during their prime of youth he gets more attracted towards samesex and not the opposite sex. definitely homosexuality is not promoted by communism. it only teaches not to discriminate anyone by their sexual orientation. it doesnt care if you are straight or gay. it only takes notice if you are for or against social equality and justice. (BTW are you a medical doctor. i strongly suspect not for you cannot be so ignorant of sexual orientation for a man who claims to dissect out the mind of a diseased person long dead)
HIV came up from the least moral thru and into the moderately immoral and no further. That is the line you must draw; or receive a painful death consumed by viruses dependent upon your memes.
A human is not a confectionary bar. If you loved them as yourself you would not seek their objectification through pornography as a method to reprogram your affections. A conscious person would see your eyes glaze over like a dog.
Hypnosis can be overlaid with more hypnosis, but it does not make it a cure for those already intolerant to reality.
The solution is to find the emotional dissocation of affection in the first place, the inhibiter, the blaming and rejecting of the gender that sent them running into the arms of the other for a love that put-out for validation to hide their inadequacies they had covered in Pride.
Mr.Ali Sina
/Just don’t act upon it and don’t engage in fantasizing about men./
Why not?
You are basically saying he should either become straight or choose celibacy.
Why did you not put 'If you can't turn straight and don't want to be celibate,it's OK to get into a loving relationship with a man' in there?
I'm bi but have have a loving boyfriend.
I am sexually attracted to both women and men,though slightly more so to women.HOWEVER,I am largely homoromantic (more into guys for relationships).
We have been together for a long while now and may tie the knot someday.
I don't know whether I was born this way or turned myself into this.I don't care either way.I never wanted children and despised gender roles (which a homosexual relationship gives me freedom from).
I DON'T CARE IF MY BISEXUALITY IS A 'DISORDER'.
What matters is that I AM HAPPY and society approves.
I would not be as happy with a woman as I am with a man (at least,it would be much more tough for me to find a woman whom I might love as much as I love my hubby).I do not see any reason in trying either.My life is going wonderful,as of many other same sex attracted men.
If this guy can find a man and create a loving relationship with him easily,while living in a homo-friendly environment,why should he go through the painful,long (and useless,according to my monosexual buddies) process of trying to become straight?
And why should he choose celibacy when he can go my way and find fulfillment with a caring man?
Someone translated Quran 3: 21 Verse like this
Allah is Shatain, rapist and terrorist. (3:21).
Will you believe in this translation. If no how can I believe if I know what is the exact meaning of Mantra.
@TipTop
I am ready to accept Islam but I hate pedophilia , rapist prophet and the Allah who punish the people till infinity just for not worshiping him.
@TipTop
Someone has translated Quran 3:21 verse like this
"Allah is Shaitan and mother Fucker." (Quran 3.21)
Should I believe in this.
If I will follow the same & start copy paste like you no one believe in me. I will loose my credibility. You can do just copy paste without knowing a single word of Mantra.
Ok save your ass keep defending Vedic aka worthless crap.
Do you think I am going to research crappy Vedas? Verses are clearly mentioned.
@Tip Top (Correct translation of Verse)
“YATRA RAJA VAIVASVATO YATRAVARODHANAM DIVAH.
YATRA MOOYAHRITI RAAPASTATRA MAAMAMRITAM KRIDHEENYENDO PARISRAVA.”
(YATRA) in which state (VAIVASVATAHA, RAJA) kaal i.e., time –
morning, evening etc., is the king. Here, the meaning of Vaivasvataha, as per Nirukta granth 10/20 is the time of death. The time of death in the whole world is achieved by all matters of the universe and at proper time, all matters of world are generated and get destroyed at an appropriate time.
Therefore, time of death is itself a king. (YATRA) where (AVRODHANAM DIVAHA) where there is effect of day and night, at all times (YATRA) where (AMUHU, YAHAVATIHI, APAHA) there is importance of the said spiritual matters (TATRA) in that state (MAAM) me (AMRITAM KRIDHI) make immortal i.e., Oh! God in that state make me immortal i.e., by following the Vedic path, we overcome the death and get salvation. (INDO) Oh! God, You (INDRAYE) for a learned Yogi/Truth Seeker (PARI, SRAVA) become the reason of giving a title of deciding truth and falsehood i.e., God, Himself gives a tittle to a Yogi/ Truth Seeker to enable him to decide truth and untruth.
@TipTop
When will youl come out from these fairy tales like "Brahma used to collect his semen in a pot whenever he masturbated fixing his carnal eyes on the celestial beauty Urvasi. Brahma's semen in the pot gave birth to Saraswati. Thus, Saraswati had no mother. "
It is 21th Century not 7th century. You do not understand even a single Mantra of Rigveda but doing some copy paste work done by fanatics Muslim.
God does not need of prophets, parents , teachers. He send everyone with embedded silicon chip inbuilt which do all job of caring, guiding , teaching.
Brahma used to collect his semen in a pot whenever he masturbated fixing his carnal eyes on the celestial beauty Urvasi. Brahma's semen in the pot gave birth to Saraswati. Thus, Saraswati had no mother. Brahma creator of universe and his daughter Saraswati stayed as husband and wife for 100 years , read story from Veda
As per Rig Veda 10.61.5-7, 1.71.5,1.71.8, 1.164.33
As his penis was stretched out in eagerness for the act of a man, the manly one pulled back. He drew back again from the maiden, his daughter, that tireless phallus which had been thrust in. As they were in the midst of the very act of union, when the father was satisfying his desire for the younger girl, the two of them left a little of the out-flowing seed shed upon the back of the earth in the womb of good deeds. When the father shed his seed in his own daughter, he split his seed on the earth as he united with her. The benevolent gods created sacred speech and fashioned Rudra Vastospati, the protector of sacred rites….. As Agni made the seed for the great father, heaven , he entered into the womb, having noticed that she was inclined to him. The hunter shot an arrow at him boldly. The god satisfied his lust in his own daughter….As the heat of passion came to the king for his enjoyment, heaven laid aside on the ground the seed that had been spilt. Agni caused to be born the blameless benevolent group of youth and made them great…. Heaven is my father, the engenderer, the navel here. My mother is this wide earth , my close kin , Between these two outstretched bowls is the womb (it is translated as womb literally Vagina-yoni ) in it the father placed his daughter’s embryo.
Sorry is was dissolution
So, universe creation-preservation-dissolution is a eternal process done by God
Difference between between Vedic theology and Islamic theology
1. As per Vedic theology God creates many people in the inception of universe. So question of incest does not arise. But Quranic theology believes It is was only Aadam and Eve in the inception of universe and Allah started the civilization by supporting to incest.
2. As per Vedic philosophy God does not need of prophets to guide the people but God always inspire the people itself whose approach is truthful like Ali Sina. But in Islamic concept God send revelations only prophets and others have no right to connect with God directly.
3. As per Vedic philosophy there is nothing like eternal hell. Because result of finite deeds can not be infinite. And ignorance is the greatest hell. One approach should be logical, scientific,impartial. Blissful state of Mind is heaven.
4. As per Veda theology matter, souls and God three entities are eternal and immortal. But souls are dependent on God to get bliss. So, universe creation-preservation-distributions is a eternal process done by God. But Islam believes this is first and last creation that means Allah was sitting idly before making the universe and all of sudden Allah desired to get itself worshiped.
tiptop
will u follow ur rapist rasool -a desert pornstar who made sex spiritualism with women slaves and now is in paradise brothel having unlimited sex with virgins naked infront of pimp Allah
LORD KRISHNA
Lord krishna was very fond of looking at naked young girls. Once upon a time Krishna, in order to get a full view of some bathing virgin girls, went to the extent of hiding their clothes on the tree top just to get a panoramic view. Does he have divine immunity from looking at naked women?
The Gita, a Holy book of the Hindus, quotes that when these bathing low caste girls begged for the return of their clothes, Lord Krishna demanded that they come out of the water with their hands raised instead of covering their bodies.
Oh my innocent Hindu brethren! Can this action be attributed to god? Is this God capable of indulging in such ungodly acts? Will Hindu mothers tolerate their son imitating god Krishna??
PUNISHMENT FOR LOW CASTE HINDUS(Shudra) by HIGH CASTE HINDUS(Brahmins)
Apastambha Dharma Sutra III, 10-26, says:
The tongue of a Shudra, who spoke evil about a BRAHMIN should be cut off A Shudra who dared to assume a position of equality with the first three castes was to be flogged. If a Shudra overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten tin was to be poured into his ears; if he repeated the Vedas his tongue should be cut and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces.
MANU, 167-272 says:
If a Shudra arrogantly teaches Brahmins Dharma, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and ears.
MANU, 167-272 says:
Let the king never slay even a Brahmin though he may have committed all possible crimes.
tiptop
ur shitty and piggy muhammad is mentioned by vedas claimed by jocker naik so stop insulting or else brothel owner allah wiil burn u in hell instead of having sex with houris
be careful
Yes Vedic religion say your forefathers are pigs, dogs wanking around you . So respect your forefathers.
It was a fault of your dad that he was in so hurry that his damaged contribution didn't let your brain grow enough.
@TipTop
It was fault of Allah who made him like this. Some born rich, healthy, intelligent, and others are poor, insane, weak etc. on what basis Allah decides who are to be rich and who are to be poor. Eternal religion a.k.a. Vedic religion says it is depends on souls previous birth deeds/Karma not the fault of God but Islam have no answer for this accuse Allah for doing this discrimination.
No he is not apostate, he is Omelet , enough beaten up and fried, watch his frustrated language.
from ur name it seems that u r an apostate however congrtas for ur new life and thoughts
Dear Rafiq,
You don't have to say homosexuality is not a choice but from inborn tendency. Don't feel guilty, it is not at all your fault. God has made you like this(if God exists, I don't know), or whatever the reason is. What I believe is that God help those who help themselves. So help yourself, build up some such a quality in you that these sexuality becomes insignificant near you, people respect you for your quality, they don't care what you are(gay or straight). Never feel ashamed or atleast don't care about the fucking Islam or bastard Mohammed said about homosexuality. He himself was illiterate,ignorant, mad, lustful, misogynist, don't care about what motherfcukers Mullahs says about Gay or Homosexuality. They themselves are worse than bastards or pimp. These are all facts. Please trust us, we have verified. I am also a former muslim.
He hails from Cameroon (later edited as Nigeria) Cameroon have 70% population are Christians and 21% Muslims. Homosexuality is legally banned in Cameroon with penalty of 5 years imprisonment and a fine of 20,000 to 200,000 francs.
Yes he has found peace. He read my book and he left Islam. He is now a fee and happy man, not ashamed of his homosexuality. There is no reason to be ashamed. Most of our problems are rooted in Islam. Once we leave Islam we can live happier.
I don't know if gayness is biological or now…but Ali's answer was compassionate and encouraging. It was a beautiful response and I do hope this Nigerian Muslim takes his advice and, especially, treats himself gently. Islam is not the religion for him to be in. There is no compassion in Islam. I was a Muslim for 8 years and was told if I left the religion, I could be killed. Truly, Islam is simply the product of a demented mind. My prayers and thoughts are with this Nigerian man. I hope he has found peace.
Stickin label "Physicist" on da ass don increase IQ haha.
I know some men who walked on the planet earth to be known as visionary. Sina is walking on internet without physical label. So he is among people who is walking on internet (!==earth) this century.
No, not at all…
What you mean by that ?
Don't get excited low life I am talking heterosexual case.
REALLY ?!
Because those are ignorants ! Developed countries longer punish homosexuals relationships !
"Iran, KSA, Yemen, UAE, Nigeria, Sudan, Mauritania" >>> Muslims countries what did you expect ?! consensual relationships between adults are punishable with death penalty but rape and pedophilia are allowed ?! In what universe ?!!
And you should read about KSA and UAE, homosexuality is an "open secret" there ! In fact there are gay bars in Jeddah and Sharjah !
As for the other countries, they are not developed yet, most people are ignorant, even in my country, things are slowly, but surely evolving, many gay people "come out" without fearing for their lives !
Did you know that the gay pride parade took place in Syria this year ? A muslim country !
Again what do you imply by "Go back to letter " ? I went back: how could i be so stupid !
I agree with Sina's views on Islam too!
In fact I admire the knowledge he has on the subject,and the effort he makes to demolish the totalitarian inhuman ideology of Islam and the super-villain Mohammed.
Also I'd not degrade what he says about Islam as just 'his view',because that would just be his opinion and thus not carry much weight.What he's said about Islam and Muhammad are the true facts and objective analysis.What the Islamic apologists say on the subject are just uneducated views and evil propaganda.
Dear Rafiq,
Don't bother responding/arguing with this Alt+QQ zombie. He is here only to spam and waste people's time.
Xtra byte
93 nations in the world legally punish homosexuality.
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania – gays and lesbians are punished with the death penalty.
As far religion is concerened origin of homosexuality goes to hinduism .i.e. NO NO Abrahamic . There are several instances in hinduism of same sex depictions and unions by gods and goddesses Transsexuals are also respected in hinduism Lord Vishnu as Mohini and Lord Shiva as Ardhanarishwara.
Please go back to letter
Jesus don't love gays. If you start your own Christianity you will be crucified .
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." – Leviticus 18:22
lol there is another reason in America and Europe. Due to too much exposure to nudity, they don't get erection at right time !
Really ? If procreation is your excuse to be homophobic then look at it this way:
Last year +100 000 asian/african orphans are adopted by gay couples,and that number can ONLY grow, consider homosexuality is the divine answer to the prayers millions of orphans around the world who are just asking for loving parents ! Heterosexuals couple only adopt if they realize that they can't have kids, but gay couples can only adopt !
Isn't nature perfect ?! ;-D
What are you saying ? Why do you keep saying go back to letter ?
Thank you for your advises, but migrating to another country is a luxury i can't afford right now. Maybe i can convince my father to send me to South Africa to finish i studies next year, but i can't migrate on my own
Here is the latest news from research of male homosexuality. Snippet from article:
"Put differently, why haven't gay man genes driven themselves extinct?"
And the article answers that question –
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/why-are-…
I totally agree with my dear Ms Ali Sina. 🙂
Yes, Ms Ali Sina is absolutely right! I have a good suggestion. Why don't you try to migrate to British Columbia? It's a very beautiful country. Don't you agree with me, my dear Ms Ali Sina? 😉
This is nonsense talk. The population is dropping everywhere including in most Islamic countries. It has nothing to do with gays. It has to do with the fact that people want more quality life for their children these days and if they can’t afford it they limit the number of kids.
If your gay your not normal their is a reason their is females on earth and di_ck+pu_ssy=baby that's why the rate of baby's are low in America and Europe cuz of the fags.
You have gained your mental freedom, which is the most important, but as long as you live in an Islamic country you are not free. Please don’t become over confident or you can lose your head. try to migrate to a non-Muslim country.
Dear Mr Rafiq, we are all sinners. Jesus loves you very much and I love you too! God is Love. 🙂
no I don't want you to be miserable but I need to learn graphology to understand when muslims love conditionally why you care brothers and sisters.
"shame is still there but the guilt is gone" catch your personality again please go back to letter again.
I had problems being gay mostly because i thought i would to hell for that, i had never read the Qoran in french(my primary language), i had no idea that Mohammed was a pedophile(that's alone a proof that he could not have been a true prophet), i was completely ignorant ! but since i read the Qoran(the first 10 Surats), Sina's articles and his book Understanding Mohommed… i now know the truth !!! i am relieved, i feel free, i feel alive and i wanna live !
As for me being gay, i now think that it's a blessing, when i see my brothers who blindly follow this satanic cult, without questioning anything the Quran says i feel sorry for them ! My sisters would have to drop schools to become servants, now that i am out of this cult maybe i can save them.
Of course the shame is still there but the guilt is gone, i am almost proud of it 😉
Do you want me to be miserable ?
Dear proud and prideful Mr Victor Purinton, don't you know that you're spouting nonsense here and making a fool of yourself? You should stop sticking to what you know and take my hint to humble yourself and learn from my dear Ms Ali Sina! Do you really think that you know this subject much better than Ms Ali Sina or me? Why lie and spouting such nonsense that there's nothing wrong with being gay? Only a gay man like you will think and felt that there's nothing wrong with being gay.
Dear sweet Ms Ali Sina, can you picture mentally the day that all the enlightened Imams, Mullahs, Ayatollahs, grand ayatollahs, muftis, grand muftis, sheikhs and all those wearing long white or black robe Muslim scholars all over the planet earth pretend being Muslims and advise the Ummah to contact you for help to get out of this Islamic sinkhole? I believe that you and all the freedom fighters here ie. Mr Jonathan Harrel, will cry tears of happiness and joy and give thanks to Jesus on that joyful day. 🙂
I assume you are not baking cookies, sometime you love sometime thats not love. You said you have problem being gay but that is not your problem. you are not even concerned about homosexuality.
"Muslims love conditionally" this generalisation catch your personality I said go back to letter again.
Don't get excited STUPID. You are one of those shameless low profile who dump religion and parents for sexual needs. I can read intentions ok go back to letter.
What ??? You're still muslim ? You should read Understanding Mahommed by Ali Sina ! Did you read Da Vinci Code and Angels And Demons by Dan Brown ?
Muslims love conditionally, that's not love ! If my father could read my mind he would slay my head in the name of Allah !
A french Imam advised you to contact me? Wow! That is some news. It is a very good news. It shows Muslims are seeing the truth. they can’t say it. If this imam speaks his mind he will lose his job and maybe his head. There are many enlightened imams. They have no option but to pretend being Muslims. God bless this man. Don’t reveal his name to anyone.
"I am very devoted to my religion and my parents." Is that you mentioned in your letter lol. Ok get into the letter again.
yes of course, i know, my own brothers would slay my head if they knew. when i started asking question about Mahommet's marriages specially Aisha and Zainab and the Qoran errors my father shut me up, went crazy, yelled at me and of course threatened with hell and took my smartphone away.
It's AMAZING how muslims can be blind and idiots.
Also, it's a french "imam" from Marseille (France) that advised to write you, i sent him the same mail, that's why when i wrote you first i thought you were a muslim or and imam.
So i guess he wanted me to leave islam and know the thruth 🙂
Again thank you, you are HERO. Thank you very much 😉
Just remember that now there are two big reasons for Muslims to kill you. Your safety is in your own hand, or in this case in your tongue. Be careful what you say. As long as you live in a Muslim country you should never be too confident. Say whatever you want online and anonymously.
ok now go back to letter.
Thank you Minerva, i just finished Ali Sina's books, i am relieved of being out of this satanic cult called Islam, of course homosexual relationships are forbidden in my country but i feel good about who i am, and i am almost grateful for being gay, otherwise i would have never questioned Islam 🙂
+100 Points for Gryffondor 😀
Gay, Kafir and Proud !
If I cared about the opinions of people I would not be doing what I am doing. I state the fact and some of them will hurt some people. I am not running for popularity context and don’t give a hoot whether people like what I write or not. Insults make me more determined.
Mr. Ali –
Why do you compromise your credibility regarding Islamism by spouting such nonsense about homosexuality? Stick to what you know. Here's a hint: people who understand evolution and genetics know that there are perfectly sound hypotheses arguing that a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality could persist in the genetic pool. The simplistic argument that says "gay men don't reproduce so that gene will not be passed along" is naive and tells me that you haven't done your homework.
But more importantly, who cares? There's nothing wrong with being gay.
You are not a very bright person, Ali.
Of course are there are different opinions. We ALL think for ourself, unlike muslims.
Muslims just have to obey what is told to them by Mohammed, and that is it ! (It is in the Koran, you know that!).
This is because Islam is a cult. And in a cult you can only obey.
But we all fight this evil cult of yours.
I advise you to go thinking for yourself. And try to see if there are really evil things in Islam. It is all up to you .
Who give a tomato if you change or don't change . Its all clear that all you get support(desperate) not on logic , truth( as usual you impose perspective ) but on interests(psychotic , political, religious etc) of eggheads/Islamophobes around you. If you don't talk their interests you are doomed.
One of you write Prophet didn't exist and you write understand prophet. So you are screwed up mad team (against Islam) who understand prophet who don't exist. You must kick potato of your fellow writer to prove you for your readers(not Muslims) or Readers are going to kick your potatoes for sure.
The good news for all homosexuals is that Jesus Christ loves you very much and that He is able to set you free from this bondage because He is your Redeemer and He redeems you with the blood htat He shed on the cross 2000 years ago. Only the sick need a doctor, not those who are well. So, come to Jesus and choose life. 🙂
Dear Ms Ali Sina, I fully agree with you when you said that homosexuality can't be genetic and you're absolutely right to say that homosexual gene does not exist at all and there is no such thing. You are also right to say that Mr Clinton Richard Dawkins's opinions on the subject was absolutely unconvincing. But I like to add on to say that he has failed to know anything about homosexuality. Why? The truth of the matter is that he is an ignorant man who has no knowledge or whatsoever about the root cause of homosexuality.
The demonstrable fact or truth of this subject which you've been searching for so long is the rebelling spirit found in homosexuals. They reject and resist their own identity as a male or female and chose an alternative lifestyle or sex organs or sexual orientation which pleases their own senses and flesh. This is all about rebelliousness and please read the Bible about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah because the inhabitants there were what you termed as 'defective products'.
People are born gay. History and mythology is replete with such instances. Not all genetic diseases are eliminated. Some still survive like hemophilia and others. I watch porn. I do not watch gay porn because i am not gay. Watching gay porn will make me puke and not gay. I am all for girl on girl or guy on girl porn. They have the things which interest me which unfortunately gay porn does not have them.
"It is a leftist conspiracy to destroy the western culture by destroying its values." So Richard Dawkins for example is in on a "leftist conspiracy" to destroy "western values"? What is this rubbish? I also hear teaching evolution is part of a conspiracy to destroy “Judaeo-Christian” values in America. Does that make sense? Also all atheists are out to destroy America according to this line of thinking. What percentage of Americans are homosexual? Does it seem plausible the gays are in control? Or is it Obama again? That great villain who according to you (without any evidence at all) is a illegal alien, secret Muslim, closet homosexual who had gay lovers murdered. Perhaps he is pulling the strings? Is this your theory? Knowing you it probably is.
The campaign for gay rights have been based on lies and emotions.On this issue,I dont need to be my own prophet to agree with you,sir.You are completely right.
I can change my views in a heartbeat. All I need are facts. The opinions of biologists or other authorities are just opinions. Facts are very different. They are demonstrable. Richard Dawkins gave his opinion on the subject but he was absolutely unconvincing. Homosexuality just can’t be genetic. It makes no sense. But I will believe it even if it does not make sense when you show me the homosexual gene. But don’t hold your breath. There is no such thing. People become homosexual and they can also get rid of it. It is not easy. It is hard to change. Ask anyone one who has tried to give up on smoking. This is much more difficult. But many have done it and many normal people have turned gay.
For heaven’s sake. The homosexuals promote their life style openly through films and literature. They know they lie. It is like the claim that Islam is the religion of peace. All Muslims know it is a lie. They glorify jihad on from one side of their mouth and say Islam means peace from the other side. Homosexuals do the same. They promote homosexuality while they say it is genetic. It is all deception. It is all lies. It is a leftist conspiracy to destroy the western culture by destroying its values.
Mr. Sina what does it take for you to accept homosexuality is genetic.Only biologists can tell us if it is or not. When we say some of the greatest biologists tell us it is genetic, you say they are lying .So please let us know , what convince you that it is ? You don't believe biologists.
You don't argue against other scientists when tell us about medicines and math , etc……thanks!
Maybe you need to do the research before making such exorbitant claims. It's like you're being biased over results of a study that actually hasn't even been done yet. But maybe I should be constructive and get you started on an internet based study – I'm gay and grew up Greek orthodox. I found straight porn all the time in my two older brothers rooms. As confusing as it was to me I still enjoyed it and watched it throughout my teens and to this day I still watch some straight porn. BUT it doesn't mean I can sleep with women or even have sexual thoughts of women, ever! Hope this helps you out with your hypothesis.
The comparison is deceptive. It is a false analogy. To justify homosexuality people even equate this disorder to race. People become homosexual at one stage in their life, it generally happens in childhood but it could also happen in adulthood.
How about left-handed people, should we train them to us their right hand?? According to this they chose to use their left hand instead of right because of some accidents in their life…
Dear Rafiq,
If homosexuality is a choice, then a person who is born blind chose blindness.
As for why Allah (God) does not answer your prayers, it is simply because there
is no invisible man living in the sky.
Being a gay is a creation error, and you are not responsible for that. We are all
not responsible for the physical or psychological defects we are born with……..
but we can seek the help of the specialists to rectify the errors of (God)……
Specialists, physicians and scientists are here for this purpose.
@Ali Sina
Sir, I am so much impressed by you & and I think you are only true prophet. You are doing great service for mankind.
Same goes with love, happiness according to blind vision these are virtual nothing. The thing is only you feel, you realize.
I am aware about parallel consciousness.I don't blame you , there are so many like you who think there is an electronic circuit(material) up their ass which control their life.
I have to agree with a lot of people that Ali Sina totally missed the mark on homosexuality. Ali, you make it seem that homosexuality is a 'condition'. Is being a heterosexual a condition too? One does not choose their sexually either consciously or subconsciously. You are born gay or straight or bisexual. Period.
LOL maybe someone will actual define soul then maybe? I dont need to wait till I die I already know your beliefs are a pile of bullshit.
Athesits are stupid who think freedom means floating like meteoroids. You are much tiny to those who live in orbits.
You are free for jungling your thoughts and I m sure you are going to get nothing because for you nothing exist.
Wait till you will have taste of death.
"No human have knowledge of soul." Okay you do not know what soul is but you say "only we know soul exist through realization." No you don’t because you know nothing about soul as NO human (according to you)has any knowledge of soul. "Whoever does claim having knowledge is stupid." I think you should remove that second sentence then or admit you have blind faith not knowledge in this undefined "soul".
So when thing is nothing , something and everything it is absolute entity i.e. Ilah" The absolute, or the all or nature or whatever you want to call is not an entitity. Your God is a conscious being that thinks, feels and acts that thing is not the all.
I agree with you Ali Sina. Thank you once again for your mighty sagacity.
No human have knowledge of soul.Only we know soul exist through realization. Whoever does claim having knowledge is stupid.
Sorry no doughnuts!
Absolute is more appropriate word but in your sense its "EVERYTHING"
I think you are much engaged in word munching. You call Allah as a thing. How can be everything is without a thing. If you mean thing as something which is less than everything you readily accept presence of Allah as something.When you deny presence of Allah then it returns nothing.
So when thing is nothing , something and everything it is absolute entity i.e. Ilah
Buddha motivated by shock of end(death) and Jungle to jungle he only got through eternal(no death) but he failed "Enlightenment" , got "nothing" and he kept silence. Still in this world there are people who are busy in ringing Jungle bell
You haven’t even defined soul so this is just meaningless white noise.
“Don't expect that I will give you some doughnut and say this is soul” No I don’t expect you too like all other believers you actually refuse to define what your talking about so you can avoid discussing it all together.
Simple question is your God everything or less than everything? Don’t dodge it just answer. No their is no beginning, everything needs a cause and causes go back endlessly. This is a logical fact. Nothing actually begins to exist, you will just find change. Beginnings are just a mental construct we put on it. “So you are not born yet so you wont be dead.” That’s right I like everything else, have never begun to exist so I will never cease to exist.
No I am not only my personality. I am a body with soul and both have relationship.
Soul need to be realized. Realization is conscious process well begin when you are not blind with physiological, psychological , ego, super ego , esteem needs. Till then have good time!
Don't expect that I will give you some doughnut and say this is soul
You are in complete denial mode.No NO NOOO ! Jungle bell rings
Allah is a thing?(who said oh you) less than everything?! he is not capital God( who said you)
Prove no beginning or no end. What doesn't have beginning a story telling or a space or universe or time.So you are not born yet so you wont be dead.
Well "you" are your personality without a personality their is no "you", so I ask again for you to define what you mean by "soul".
No the infinite is everything. You cannot have a greater God than everything. Your Allah is a thing (which is less than everything)so he is not God (capital G). "you say everywhere, this is a spin." No its not a spin. "where at the end?" It has no beginning or end, that is why it is called infinite.
"Attributes of Allah are derivatives of absolute entity (ILAH) which is infinite." A "infinite entity" is a self Contradiction, a thing is finite *by definition*
A soul is not personality. Personality is what we already discussed genotype and its phenotype development.
So your infinite is power less. So your infinite is only material. Ok I ask you from where to where is your infinite? If you say everywhere, this is a spin.
If you don't spin then there is from where to where, from galaxy to galaxy , from milky way to milky way , where at the end?
Attributes of Allah are derivatives of absolute entity (ILAH) which is infinite.
la ilaha illallah [ There is no GOD But GOD (The Only GOD)]
I had to disagree on you Ali Sina, you disappoint me on your stance on the issue of homosexuality.
Nothing is wrong on homosexuality. Even some animals practice it. So, what's best is for them to be bisexual.
But at least you're not imposing your views of homosexuality to others, since they are still free to choose.
On the other hand, I believe that humans used to be unisex in mind, without any preconceived notion of their sexual edifices.
"A soul is unique identity of Individual independent of existence on planet earth." No your personality is not independent of "existance on planet earth". It comes from the brain this is why a person who gets brain damaged their personality can also be destroyed or damaged. Your identity is formed through memory sinse its impossible for 2 different people to have lived exactly the same life and to have exactly the same memories you have a "unique" identity.
"Attributes of Allah" No your God is a thing. I believe in the infinite, the infinite is not a thing or a entity nor does it have attributes as only things have attributes.
"Which GOD atheists are denying ?" An infinite God is the one I deny, because the infinite is not a thing with attributes. As for finite gods I could not care less about them even if they existed because like you said they are not God.
Relationship is important to experience , realize soul/spirit.
I don't think you are going to break with person if he/she come with new face new identity after surgery the thing is what about him/her you still recognize. Or you are not going to reproduce the same relationship with any one thinking its matter of feelings only, the way you feel nothing more.
You agree or disagree you like or dislike you pamper or suffer, you are motivated to nature love belief.This relationship doesn't originate from logic based on arithmetic.
A soul is unique identity of Individual independent of existence on planet earth.
If infinity is philosophical concept and zero is philosophical concept then we must be sinking all science.A little change in electromagnetic field of earth going to rewrite all scientific books. What is going to sustain is Truth.
If universe is entity, eternity, absolute, infinite, undestroyable what Atheist believe then Atheism is a Joke. Attributes of Allah
I smile at laughing Buddha which is favorite of atheists, I smile at atheists looking at sky for tripping and inspirations. I smile at atheists when they say there is a Hercules in universe.There are wild varieties of atheists even they don't think alike.
Which GOD atheists are denying ? one with ten limbs or with human form or superman, batman, catman, pigman.Ok these are not GOD.
"There is no GOD" is breaking up a relationship with GOD(denial mode) but GOD exist
“You lack relationship again. You might not have entered consciousness where your mind get automatically compromised with nature, love, belief, clairvoyance.” All of these are feelings you actually have to provide *reasons*, well first you have to define what you mean by *soul* and then provide actual *reasons*, not just say “you lack relationship” as if that is some kind of rational argument.
“A reason to live, one of the best gift anyone can give.” Your reasons to live come from yourself, not an external entity.
"Being an Atheist you may reject philosophical or theological mode." I don’t reject philosophy I.e. pure reason.
“None of human can calculate how big this universe is or what is infinity.” You are confusing science and philosophy, infinity is a philosophical concept NOT a scientific one. And no you cannot measure the infinite because it is unlimited, actually every thing is actually infinite and the boundaries we put on them are just mental constructs.
“In both cases you deny existence of object irrespective of object exist or don't exist. And here object is GOD.” What are you on about now? I have never said objects don’t exist.
“Atheism : Your response is in denial mode. Human have relationship with universe , relationship is not possible with practical nothing.” Straw man again, I have never said universe does not exist nor does Atheism say any such thing,
Being an Atheist you may reject philosophical or theological mode. Lets go psychological
None of human can calculate how big this universe is or what is infinity. There are some assumptions to believe.
So "Imaginary" is your state of mind related with object which don't exist denying existence of object. The same goes with your "Denial of reality" state of mind related with object which exist denying existence of object.
In both cases you deny existence of object irrespective of object exist or don't exist. And here object is GOD.
Atheism : Your response is in denial mode. Human have relationship with universe , relationship is not possible with practical nothing.
"mystic dimension inside your own head"
Nothing out of your head. We are both communicating through Internet , we both have our computing devices at our end. So you say everything is in our computing devices. You overlook nature forces between us handling conversation, computing devices are just tools.
"there is no such thing as a "soul"
You lack relationship again.You might not have entered consciousness where your mind get automatically compromised with nature, love, belief, clairvoyance.
Buddha kept silence over "Enlightenment" he never achieved at full. A reason to live, one of the best gift anyone can give.
"but realization of Allah (SWT) in mystic dimension." Yes that mystic dimension inside your own head.
"A soul is also imaginary according to fashionable atheists." Yes there is no such thing as a "soul". Consciousness is produced by the body this is why when you damage a part of your body or lose some of your sensory organs consciousness will also be damaged. A dead man is a man with no senses, no imagainary "soul" exists.
Homosexuality can be prevented and Islamophobia can be defeated.
Shookran
Yes you should check with doctor if you are not from middle East, Asia or some part of Africa. Conservative approach to sex basically behind this theory. Over exposure to sex in west resulted in late arousal. It's common even watching nude girls on beaches people in west don't get aroused.
If neither is case with you, suspend the meeting and go to pee first, you can use local anesthetic containing lidocaine.
@enlightened2591p
R u serious? But now I am 24get aroused only by listening/ watching intercourse between adults. Although I have no relation with any girl to till date. But I get aroused too early. Should I get checked myself to a doctor?
Yes people who walk on Internet that century !
Its ok If you don't believe God that's your personal freedom. You can still be christian.
"In the beginning, there's no religion at all"
huh! Atheism infiltrate hypocrite christians building new concepts.
In the beginning, there's no religion at all but a love relationship between our loving Creator God and our first ancestors, Adam and Eve. You can fabricate all kinds of self comforting theories or bugs bunny religion to deceive your good self and others but you can't deny the fact that God is real.
Wake up, Ms Ali Sina and get out of this imaginery painful awakening. If you believe that nature itself is real, so is Jesus Christ, our loving Creator God!
People who use the term 'consenting adults' have not really thought it through. What if the two consenting adults are brothers? Father and son? Ah, I can almost see your face blanch.
And then why limit this 'consenting adults' argument to homosexuals?
What if the two consenting adults are brother and sister? Father and daughter? Mother and son?
You see the slippery slope this argument leads to?
My kids are not conditioned but they hate the smell of bacon at restuarants which makes them vomit. what an atrocious smell. Many nons muslims have stopped eating pork.
True when I am in a state of danger or fear or heart broken it is very comforting to rely on a superior force. I speak to God all the time while driving, I feel safe. While studying I feel focused. With every breath of mine I think of God and question him all the time and somehow I get to the answer. We can't prove that there is a God but my gut feeling tells me to believe in a God.
where do i start? well, when do people feel that they can start philosophising about human issues? Is it when their they are hungry and searching for food and shelter or is it when their bellies are fjull and their bodies are with comfort. I would think it's the latter. I would hope you will understand the above statement without me having to write a 300 page explanation. Now, getting back to homosexuality. You said to Rafiq that the problem is not with him, but with society that labels him as normal/abnormal. Please elaborate and state that no sexual orientation is a "disorder". Pedophiles are anxiously awaiting your reply. And please, don't use the society labels such as pedophilia is a "disorder" or that children are not adults. Who determines when a person becomes an adult? Society? or you?
He is not talking of what puppet you were if you were muslim but realization of Allah (SWT) in mystic dimension. If your previous experience was imaginary then your present is denial of reality.
There is GOD or there is no GOD are two parallel consciousness of human mind which is nothing but relationship or no relationship. Relationship you are believer, no relationship you are atheist. There is nothing happening to existence of GOD for not believing (not having relationship).
I am sure people have relationship with their spouses not only physically, even if their spouse deformed their bodies in accident making them unrecognizable and block all known ways of communications there is not only imagination that keep that relationship but there is something which manifest existence of soul. A soul is also imaginary according to fashionable atheists.
Gothic "ilm-e-nafsiat" which includes belief , soul along with mind is granny of modern psychology.
This psychological basis of understanding that proved you never encountered the presence of Allah (SWT)
There are loads of atheists and secular preachers in west specially in US who are fond of Rumi ( A mystic poet) despite knowing fact that he was an orthodox muslim.
Oh yeah I had. At one time in my life I was a very devout believer. I was not a fanatic but a believed in God and felt his presence all the time. The feeling was only imaginary. This I came to know when I realized there is no God. It was a painful awakening. I lost a friend. But the friend was only imaginary.
No religion is not necessary. Many people live without religion and have no use for it. At one point I could not even think how one can survive without the belief in God. Now I can’t believe in God and religion even if I wanted.
Religion and the belief in God however, can be of some solace. There are moments that one feels he had to rely on a superior force. Now this force is not real but the belief in it is comforting. In that sense, i.e. from a psychological point of view, the belief in God can be positive. But you can substitute God for anything and get the same effect.
This is called Argumentum Ad Veracundiam fallacy. One should never accept or reject any proposition because respected institutions approve or disapprove it.
The Earth was never flat even when all the learned people of the world including the Church said it. Today the UN passes resolutions banning the criticism of Islam and compares that to racism. Of course that is wrong. Religion is not a race.
That does not make me a Christian. I don’t believe in God so I can’t be a Christian. However, I respect Christian values and admire Jesus, even though I am not sure whether the Jesus we know was actually a historic figure or not. In any case, I admire his teachings and what he stood for.
Ok
Mr. Sina is a true christian. So he have conflict with both Islam and Gays
???
Set Gay = wscript.CreateObject("Homosexual.Shell")
do
wscript.sleep 100
Gay.sendkeys "This is a AIDS. You have been infected."
loop
I am happy it came as hilarious to you. Definitely I do care low IQ folks and never try to impose logical dependency.
There was no personal attack "Stupid Cry Baby" is your state of mind proving me dishonest.
I gave you questions which have definite logical answers and are arguments which you are not refuting and asking me arguments?!
If chocolate is what you mean argument tell me brand I will buy it for you !
My point iswhy you agree on views on Islam but not on gay? A true christian conflict with both there is no surprise.I am with Loki on this one. Sorry mr. Sina.
But I agree with your views on Islam…
Blah blah blah…. I did not this because.. No I did this because !!! Stupid Cry Baby ! Find answers which are not irrelevant.
1st one Physiological
2nd one Genetic
3rd one Psychological
4th one Universal Law
All answers prove "Homosexuality is a disorder "
Multiple reasons include all this.
oh best brains don't include me lol. You pathetic still searching resources for your brain?
You need attention from readers that prove you are not with truth but with popular media.
I have already told you not to bring me lab made gray apple.
Autopost!delete!Attempt#1
Specially your claim to be one of the best brains of the World was hilarious!
Can you surprise us with your IQ please?
LOL This doesn't even merit a response.Personal attacks don't make your case,it just underlines lack of arguments on your side.
You never had means you have genetic disorder. He/She is a legend who think hypothesis is conclusion. He/She also know which come first chicken or egg.
FOT said he doesnt thing there is any man who has not had homosexual feelings.I wonder how he new thatThat is a Big Fat Lie.I have never had it
I don't think homosexuality can be explained by classical conditioning ONLY. Of course there are some rare cases when the environment plays a big role (e.g. when there are no men/women nearby, when in prison, when you are confronted with too much gayness etc.).
Rather, I think it is an evolutionary bi-product. In order to evolve properly, a certain percentage of the population HAS to be homosexual. Proof: I don't think a man or a woman exists who has never ever had homosexual feelings at least once (or else they are lying). It is totally normal in both humans and animals. The question "is homosexuality normal?" should rather be: "(on a scale from 1-100) how gay am I?" I think every human being (and animal) is at least 1 % gay. It is normal, a bi-product of evolution.
My point is: Dear Rafiq, you should not be ashamed of or try to change being homosexual. It is natural for you, just as it is natural for heterosexuals to be heterosexual. But I think you know this already…
Ali.I will Like to know what you make of Organisations Like APA and WHO who have come out strongly in support of Homosexuality or Gay marriage.I am more inclined to believe that SSM,SSA or Homosexuality is a disorder,but when I run into people who tell me it is not bad becaose WHO says so,or APA says so,I become confused because thgese guys are meant to be the creme de la creme of the scientific community inth America and the world.So what is your take on that?
@Hafeez Nizamani
Brother you should know what means religion. According to Veda characteristic of religion are Non-violence, Patience, Forgiving, Self-control, Non-Stealing, Purity, Control of Sense and Work organs, Intellect, Knowledge seeking, Truthfulness, Non-Anger, Contentment, Putting strong efforts, Self-study or self-evaluation. Whoever follow these traits he is religious and great follower of God/Allah/Aum. Identity of true devotee of God/Allah as per
Rigveda 10.161.4
– Your efforts should be full of enthusiasm and for bliss of everyone
– Your emotions should be for one and all and love everyone the way you love yourself
– Your desire, resolve, analysis, faith, abstinence, patience, keenness, focus, comfort etc all should be towards truth and bliss for all, and away from falsehood.
– Keep working in synergy to increase each others’ knowledge and bliss.
2. Yajurved 19.77
– All humans at all times should have passion only for adoption of truth and rejection of falsehood. This should be a continuous process and one should keep detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence.
3. Yajurved 36.18
– Humans should never hate any other living being and interact with each other with love and affection
– Humans should consider all living beings as their friends and work for prosperity of everyone
What is true religion http://agniveer.com/5095/what-is-vedic-religion/
Dear Ali, i want to ask you ( Is Religion is necessary for human being ?)
Ali has not encountered the presence of Allah (SWT).
ray, you don't have to be gay to defend gay rights.No , I am not gay .Did it solve the mystery ??
Scientific article is one that is backed by facts, not by opinions. Even opinions of scientists is worthless if they can’t prove it with facts. Scientists are humans and like all humans they are driven by their own prejudices.
If you can prove that all the women in Lesbos became homosexual through genetic mutation after their men where massacred then you have a case in favor of genetic source of homosexuality. If you can’t then all the scientists in the world cannot prove such thing.
Do you know that the same scientific journal published an article by a couple of Muslims claiming that many scientific discoveries were already stated in the Quran? http://www.milligazette.com/news/298-science-journal-publishes-quran-based-theory-on-phenomena-of-life-and-death
I hope this will suffice to not believe in anything the scientific journals publish. Believe no one except your own eyes and your own reason.
I called you dishonest because you only published one part of the abstract,and not the part which says "It implies a 99.5% certainty that there is a gene or genes in this area that predispose males to homosexuality".If that's not dishonesty,what is?
I didn't call you dishonest because you didn't give a link,so citing your providing the link isn't a proof of your honesty.
It was like when Hamza Tzortzis was asked to write one equation of M-Theory he said "Try me" LOL
Even he knew he couldn't, and had to admit the same "I can't!" when Prof. Hoodbhoy invited him to the board.
Conclusions of that article don't say for once that homosexuality is a disorder.It says there could be multiple reasons in addition to genes which is what I am claiming.So what's your point really?
I asked for any evidence or argument to support your side of the story.But you've just asserted and asked questions,some self-explanatory and some irrelevant to the discussion at hand.Those don't make your case any stronger.
All you are left with is ""Homosexuality is a disorder" is as simple as black is black".Irrefutable argument!! LOL God knows why people wasted so many centuries building scientific methods, methods of proof, logic etc.
Q: How did the world originate?
A: From the mouth of a Hippo.
Q: But what's your proof?
A: Leaves are green. (End of discussion)
""Homosexuality is a disorder" is as simple as black is black"
Yah, it's really simple. It's so simple that the best brains of the world are struggling to find an answer, but you just have presented an extremely elegant solution from your living room computer based on a random guy's advances at you. LOL
I'll let the readers decide who's honest/dishonest based on the reading of this discussion and draw curtains on it for now.
I've already wasted a lot of time waiting for arguments which never came.
Sorry,if a peer reviewed article on Science Journal is unsubstantiated and unquoted,I don't know what is a 'scientific' article for you.Maybe something extraterrestrial?There aren't too many Journals on earth with better pedigree than "Science",maybe "Nature" is one which is as highly revered.
I already gave the explanation for Lesbos above,and even asked you for a source as I couldn't find much detail on the Internet.I haven't disregarded your logic like you just disregarded evidence.It's peculiar that you relied on legends/stories over what science says on the issue,when you are trying to make a scientific claim.
This world is full of hopeless doctors who live in illusion that university is bigger than universe.
As about psychological treatment , Treatment should not include love therapy. Love start accommodating even enemies eventually with no desired result.There is always a need of justified.
of course this treatment have no influence over sexual orientation because this treatment is only biological not psychological.
As i said homosexuality is not a genotype (the "internally coded, inheritable information") but a phenotype (the "outward, physical manifestation" of the organism) which explains more why lesbians suffer more than others of polycystic ovarian syndrome.
My point is those lesbians suffered of polycystic ovarian syndrome not because they inherited this but because of what affected them physiologically, sociologically… since they were kids till growing up. Their organism changed as phenotype not genotype.
Dr Sina is right when he said that sexual orientation can be changed but it's not as easy as he described.
A gay man or a lesbian, when they say they couldn't be attracted to the opposite sex even though they tried are absolutely honest about it. The years of phenotype change to their organisms and brains due to psychological influence made it difficult for their body to feel attraction to the opposite sex even when they try to psychologically manipulate their bodies.
So if you want to change sexual orientation of a person you need to put him/her under a great physiological change and for a very long time, a time that is enough to also restore the phenotype change that was done to his/her organisms.
Dr Argawal said that:
"We do not view lesbianism as a disease that is in need of a cure."
that's why they cure the biological but don't bother to go further and cure the psychological.
100 years from now Mr. Sina you'll be regarded as a visionary…
Why instead of quoting me these unsubstantiated and unproven “scientific” claims that have nothing scientific in them you don’t explain how all the women of Lesbos became homosexual after their men were killed? Did their gene change suddenly?
Logic is simple, but when people resit it for reasons of faith as in this case it is, truth will be resisted even if it hits one on the head.
Hopeless I gave a link to your timid eyes. And conclusions at the end are determining. (Dishonest I wouldn't have given a link) Stop your lame logic.
"Homosexuality is a disorder" is as simple as black is black.
Why didn't any anatomy book mention function of anus includes sex?
Why smiling, crying , heterosexuality are not disorders ?
Why some gays say they have woman heart in male body?
Why can't homosexual propagate themselves so there is a need of heterosexuals to take birth including homosexuals?
Keep finding simple answers you will learn "Homosexuality is a disorder"
Pasting the part of the content that you skipped out of dishonesty.
"33 shared a set of five markers in the q28 region of the long arm of the X chromosome. The linkage has a LOD score of 4.0, which translates into a 99.5% certainty that there is a gene or genes in this area that predispose males to homosexuality."
99.5% certainty that genes predispose males to homosexuality?Does that mean anything to you?
Why did you only print part of the conclusion? LOL Anyone checking the link can find out your dishonesty.But you're so shameless that you are prepared to take even that risk.It seems you're mortally afraid of the truth.
This isn't my only evidence,I just provided my first search result.Even you could have found the same and more,but you prefer to keep eyes closed 🙂
And what's the age of the paper got to do with the validity of its contents? It's an article from Science Journal, one of the most prestigious scientific journals on the planet and it's peer reviewed extensively before publication.
"It seems likely that homosexuality arises from a variety of causes."
Does that prove homosexuality is a disorder?
Why don't you bring on your evidence instead of relying on rhetoric?
If you get aroused by such story I think you need professional help. In civilised countries even a sixteen year old can be charged for having sex with a 10 year old girl, let alone a grown man such as yourself (I assume you are an adult now). If this sexual conditioning works at all most probably it would take months or even years before it started to have an effect on you, so if you just hear a story of intercourse with a ten year old girl and get sexually aroused I think their must be something seriously wrong with you.
@Ali Sina Sir/Worlpeace
Please see this Fatwa also on killing of homosexuals & this Fatwa is like Ali Sina views on the subject
Question:- Is it right to kill homosexuals?
Answer by http://satyagni.com/fatwa-online/
Homosexuality is definitely a special case of disorder where a person feels the urge to put his genital organ, mouth etc in that part of another person which is full of latrine. And in the process they increase spread of AIDS by 30-300 times. They are in same league as another foolish behavior of prostitution that spreads dreaded diseases and destroys moral fabric. So definitely both prostitution and homosexuality are nothing except dangerous stupid behaviors bordering towards mental imbalance. However the lustful environment that thrives of earning bucks by fooling people into cravings is responsible for this crap. So it is a much deeper problem. We have no right to kill homosexuals. We instead need to show compassion towards homosexuals so that they can be made more logical. And work at macro level to discourage lustfulness and commercialization of sex. Killing of homosexuals or torturing them or hating them is against the will of Allah! Because Islam means Peace! And Allah is all loving and pure! Ameen
This is a Journal Article written way back in 1993 in Science Journal, arguably one the most recognized scientific journals.
It describes an experiment on homosexuality, and provides evidence for the gay gene.
But it also adds in conclusion, as I was suspecting, that it doesn't cover all cases of homosexuality which could be a manifestation of multiple causes.
Journal Name: Science (Washington, D.C.); (United States); Journal Volume: 261:5119
Article Name: Evidence for homosexuality gene
It is just the first result of my search which is enough to establish that "there is no evidence for genetic cause of homosexuality" is not a correct statement? I'm sure more research will get us more evidence which sits in disagreement with the "Homosexuality is a learned behavior" hypothesis.
I'm trying to be objective,however all the Websites which I have found till now to be claiming homosexuality as a disorder are Christian organizations or Creationist organizations.So I am starting to doubt the presence of credible scientific evidence on that side of the debate.
Ok tell me what gay activists and popular media are promoting !
This is your 4 year old story = No evidence. Finding common biological traits among gay men is proving something?
Conclusions from your evidence :
"And even among those brothers where there was no evidence that the trait was passed paternally, seven sets of brothers did not share the Xq28 markers. It seems likely that homosexuality arises from a variety of causes."
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.bibli…
You go on asserting, I'll go on providing Evidence. I'll let the readers decide who's true and who's false.
Journal Name: Science (Washington, D.C.); (United States); Journal Volume: 261:5119
Article Name:-
Evidence for homosexuality gene.
Citations: 31
That's just one, if you need more I'm there for you.
There is nothing biased , logical fallacy , assertion like anything.
"Homosexuality is a disorder "
All your arguments are lame, psychotic , unnatural
1. Universal law of reproduction – False
2. Talk of disorders including metabolic as in general –False
3. Mixed parenthood necessity – False
4. Is it Bedroom story – False
5. Comparing degenerative disease with disorder – False
Next time you come with lab made gray apple and say its natural. No one is going to entertain.
The Lesbos example, if factually correct, could mean that sexual behavior can be altered by changing surroundings out of pure necessity or scarcity. But does it prove that uncommon sexual 'preference' is 'only' influenced by surroundings, or that it is true for all cases?
The questioner here is not limited by his surroundings. He claims his preferences are from his pre-pubescent days. So if in your opinion Lesbos is enough evidence of environment affecting sexual behavior, isn't the case in question enough evidence that it can be congenital too?
I am not disregarding this evidence of Lesbos, but honestly, you think it's a conclusive proof?
Sir, you are creating strawmen of my arguments. I never said most of the things you have refuted above.
I've said earlier that I hoped you'd take my criticism positively. But I guess there is some amount of narcissism in me too, which compels me to respond. 🙂
"It is important that we say what we believe" Absolutely true, but if your site was only "I believe Islam was Muhammad's scheme to retain power over others" and nothing more, I doubt you'd have these many visitors.I read your articles because they are well researched and I can check the authenticity of your claims.Not because I like your beliefs,but I like your arguments.
You have compared my criticism of your approach to homosexuality with muslims'(I prefer Islamofascists, because there are a number of gentle muslims). 🙂
I just said both sides of the coin should be seen,both perspectives should be considered.Without that,it's unscientific criticism.Muslims criticize you,I'm criticizing your arguments. 🙂 That's the difference.
"There is absolutely not scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic" is not a correct statement.The correct sentence is "There is no scientific evidence that conclusively proves homosexuality is purely genetic".
I can also say "There is no scientific evidence that conclusively proves homosexuality is purely behavioral/learned".The truth may lie in between,who knows?There is ongoing research on the subject,shouldn't we postpone declaring our sentence on the subject till science reaches a certain level of certainty about it?
"Anyone who expresses an opinion contrary to that is ridiculed, harassed and vilified. This is exactly how Muslims try to silence their critics. This is fascism. " I agree but how's that relevant in this discussion with me? I never ridiculed,harassed or vilified you! I've only said I find your treatment of this subject unscientific because it disregards the other side of the subject and concludes without sufficient proof.
"Richard Dawkins can be wrong." Of course he can! Even Isaac Newton was wrong on many things! That's how science works.I never suggested you 'believe' in his viewpoint on the subject. I suggested you can consider the hypotheses he puts forward and give it some thought rationally.
"Stop believing in things because famous people, smart people, educated people, people in authority, or the majority of people say them." Isn't the fact that I am countering you enough proof that I don't 'believe' famous people because of their fame? 🙂 Even Zakir Naik,William Lane Craig are famous,I don't believe them. So that logical fallacy doesn't apply to me.
"If homosexuality were genetic, shouldn't the father of gay men be also a little gay?" Not necessarily, it can be a recessive gene. Children having blue eyes don't necessarily have parents with slightly blue eyes. The skin color of men is a trait which has gradations, very fair, little fair, medium etc. It doesn't mean the gay gene has to function like the skin tone gene. But your question is valid and you can ask a scientist about it. Maybe they can tell you more.
"Where is the gay gene? Why it has not been found yet?" Many questions are still unanswered by science, we still can't create life from non-life for example. But should we substitute that by what we believe? Hasn't religion started the same twisted way? Don't theists claim why there's no proof against God and claim victory? 🙂
"Why it does not run in families like other genetic traits do?" This question should ideally be raised in a scientific forum because neither you not I know the answer completely. But I'll try to answer it the best I can. From Biological perspective, not all traits are expressed in every generation. Many raise their head after a number of generations, and then historical study reveals the genetic underpinnings of a certain aberrant behavior From a social perspective, many are afraid to disclose their alternate sexual preferences fearing social ridicule. Due to this reason the number of sexual minorities are likely to be many more than we know. So it might as well run in families, but a scientific study on the same is required before a conclusion is reached. We can't deliver ultimatums based on our current knowledge.
"But don't mock those who want to get rid of it and want to lead a normal happy life."
I haven't !! In fact the questioner pleads at the end that being gay isn't a choice for him, as he would never have chosen that. He almost hates that he's gay since he was 6 or 7. I haven't mocked him for once. I'm aghast at the religion that makes him believe he's a sinner because of something that isn't in his control.
I hope I've cleared some misconceptions about my position on the subject and on you.I'm a big fan of your analysis on most other articles.I just hoped that you'd have given a more balanced opinion on this.
Thanks.
It's interesting that you demand proof,where 60-80% of your comments are plain assertions.The first paragraph is just that without a universal agreement of the meaning of 'natural' .
Neither have you responded to most of my refutations of your arguments.
"Claiming disorder as natural(with no proof ) is lame and hypocrisy" Do you realize a problem with that statement? It is you who is claiming homosexuality a disorder first! And then asking for proof that it is not. A classical logical fallacy.
I haven't 'claimed' anything.I've asked for fair treatment of homosexuals in society,and that homosexuality shouldn't be classified as a disorder unless medical science or psychology concludes it to be.Unless it is a scientific conclusion,branding it a disorder based on no real facts is baloney.
I have also contested your claim that homosexuals are pathetic by pointing out that many homosexuals are immensely successful in their respective disciplines.
"This is psychosis" I just gave you the sources that it is not a daydream but a reality! If you ignore evidence presented before you,then please don't claim "lack of proof".I've generally found that men with a primitive idea about women tend to abhor/disregard this reality.This has a psychological underpinning as it goes against the traditionalist view that women are inferior to and dependent on men.It is simply resistance to change which is very natural and understandable.
The encounter you described probably reinstates my apprehension that your opposition to this phenomenon is more emotional/psychological than based on arguments/evidence.Would you brand heterosexuality as disorder if a woman you wouldn't want to sleep with demands intimacy from you?I think no.
Of course I wouldn't support if a gay man or a heterosexual woman tries to rape you. 🙂
I know it's difficult to look at a subject objectively.We all have perceptions and biases to various degree,and often some experiences damage our perspectives beyond repair.The first time I ate American Chopsuey,it was a terrible experience and I never tried it again. 🙂 That doesn't mean I start claiming it's poisonous without any competent authority to back me up, and call people who like it as diseased and recommend outcasting them from society. 🙂
If science in the future concludes that homosexuality is a disease,even then we need to treat them as we'd treat a person afflicted with cancer,with kindness and fellow feeling and not demanding that their heads be chopped off unless cured.But till that point, we shouldn't deliver judgement based on our 'perception' of normal or natural.
this: http://authorfbradshaw.hubpages.com/hub/Do-Gay-Pa…
written by a lesbian, and it's her conclusion too that:
…, a parent’s sexual preference does affect the child’s sexuality development. Furthermore environment is also an attribute to the turn out of a child with gay parent’s sexual identity. Awareness that as parent’s we are the true role models to our children should decrease taking away the natural courses our children will take in their sexuality development, whether they are gay or heterosexual or even experiment in same-sex relationships or homosexual acts.
—
I'm with Ali Sina here. Homosexuality IS a learned behavior.
If you are a homosexual and you are happy being homosexual, then no problemo. If you are a homosexual but you are not happy with being homosexual? Yes, homosexuality can be cured.
It's people's right to decide for themselves what they want to be.
But it will get complicated when it concerns children, because children will model their behavior on their parents behavior. In short, children raised by gays may become gay themselves.
Although it's still my opinion too that it's better if a child is raised in a gay family that loves him/her than a hetero family that doesn't love him/her, increased complexity means need for more education and increased responsibility.
"A Jihad for Love" is sort of analytical documentary movie on homosexuality and Islam. I am wondering if Jihad or Love either have to do anything with homosexuality.
I don't know why are you shaking to much to prove acid is alkali. Homosexuality is physiological and psychological disorder. I put it as combining universal disorder as it also doesn't follow natural order of reproduction system for which sex is meant .
Human live with so many metabolic disorders too some are reversible and some are irreversible. Claiming disorder as natural(with no proof ) is lame and hypocrisy.
"Presence of a man to raise a baby is not essential anymore." This is psychosis.
Well I tell you this is not bedroom story.Latest I saw a guy looking at me. As usual I keep my blue tooth on for communicating minds around. I developed mixed reaction of comedy and anger against his demanding approach. That was disturbing. This is what these slaves of need behave in society.
When people wan to be deceived there is nothing that will stop them. They will cling to any straw to justify their self deception.
In this article I brought the example of the women of Lesbos. How could all the women become homosexual after the men were massacred? The fact that homosexuality is not genetic is patently obvious, but how can you convince those who pretend not to see and not t hear?
The women in Lesbos were not born homosexual. They all become homosexual. Do you need more evidence than that?
Ahem…can I ask you one thing? Are you gay?
"Homosexuality is not normal. What makes it normal?"
That begs the question of what is normal.Normal may mean different things for different people,is there anything universally normal in behavior?For some Latin American tribes spitting on a friend's hand is normal to show respect.For observant Jews and Muslims,circumcision is normal.Similarly for gays/lesbians their sexual orientation is normal.It may not be normal for you.
"Clearly It's universal disorder irrespective of being voluntary or not" Another assertion,I thought you had emptied your bag.
"Why there is need of sperm donor if its so natural or normal?" I gave that link to show that the presence of a man to raise a baby is not essential anymore.Even two women can produce children in vitro,it has been done for lower animals and there is hope in research for humans too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/1769356.stm http://twomomsmakeababy.blogspot.in/ – shows how two mothers are bringing up a baby.Their life seems "normal" and happy.
"No natural even being complex process need man made prerequisites" Yeah?With such sweeping generalizations you expect to be correct. 🙂 Do you know about Ceasarian section?A "natural" process,childbirth requiring human intervention?
"Homosexuality deform societies" What if the society included homosexuals and not treated them like trash,or killed them by hanging?Homosexuals are a part of society,what goes on in their bedrooms is not social it's personal.
"pathetic homosexuals" There are many of them who lead immensely successful and happy lives.And if cynics and religious fanatics weren't baying for their blood all the time,they'd be happier perhaps.
"given a power these homosexuals never ever be grown as theocrats or democrats but autocrates" Ha,good imagination,you could try writing poems.
"I have simple realization system" Good for you,but that realization system may not always give you the truth.It'll simply let you know your preferences.No one is asking you to become gay LOL.It's just that stop criticizing people for what goes on their bedrooms! Give others that space!
I never thought your dad was pregnant I just asked.
Will you stop making such silly analogies between food preferences, phobias and sexual orientation?? Really man, I thought you were more intelligent than Zakir Naik…I had asked you to provide me a single report on homosexuality from any reputable organization/ research institute that considers homosexuality as a disease or anomaly and offers cure for it…I had provided my evidence with statements from WHO, APA and Royal college. I can provide more if you ask for. But you have failed to give us a single valid argument or reference. Instead you are trying to insinuate that one can change sexual orientations just like food habits…This is beyond ridiculous..
WHO lists Homosexuality, Heterosexuality and Bisexuality as positive sexual orientations. Homosexuality was long declassified from the category of disorders. One might feel attracted to the opposite sex for some times and then to same sex or both at the same ime. Such people are called bisexuals. That doesn't mean hetero can become homo or vice versa. Also in some cases people living in confinement, say prisons or societies where gender segregation is prevalent, might commit same sex intercourse out of frustrations and trauma. But that too doesn't make them homosexuals and there is no statistics to prove that such victims retained their homosexual preference after conditions changed. There are many straight pornographic actors who act in lesbian/gay videos for money without becoming homosexual after the shoot. There's difference between sexual intercourse and sexual orientation. Homosexuals naturally prefer same sex partners just like heteros prefer opposite sex.
And I thought that Neanderthals had become extinct
There is no proved genetic base regarding homosexuality.Genotype , the regulator must have gay genes to prove homosexuality as genetic. Hormonal imbalance is medical conditioning. Even politically correct Dr agrawal(in your link) said treatment have no influence over sexual orientation.
Homosexuality is not normal. What makes it normal?. There is no need for some bunch of politically shy , hypocrites to be agree on this.Clearly It's universal disorder irrespective of being voluntary or not.
The example you gave is ridiculous. Why there is need of sperm donor if its so natural or normal? No natural even being complex process need man made prerequisites.
Religion is always built on collective interest of societies. It is never been hub of personal entertainment. Men and women relationship is basic foundation of societies. Homosexuality deform societies by twisting basic relationship into unproductive sh!t. Apart from as I mentioned homosexuality blow morality, bonding of social system.
You think treating pathetic homosexuals by giving them their choice is related with their personal choice. No its affecting societies. Have close look about psyche of homosexuals, given a power these homosexuals never ever be grown as theocrats or democrats but autocrates.
I have simple realization system. Being educated or uneducated doesn't affect me because I am with core of human being. Tell me chicken is delicious (Uneducated) I am going to eat or tell me chicken have 26 percentage of protein(Educated) I am going to eat.
"You can get rid of your misogyny and male chauvinism can you?" Why should I? Do you expect me to praise this nonsense and call these things equal? since you said Jung here is a quote from his wife Emma that I think perfectly sums up women "In general, it can be said that feminine mentality manifests an undeveloped, childlike, or primitive character; instead of the thirst for knowledge, curiosity; instead of judgement, prejudice; instead of thinking, imagination or dreaming; instead of will, wishing. – Emma Jung, "On the Nature of the Animus". All the great philosophers from the Buddha to Nietzche have been misogynists as it clear to anyone with half a brain that women have no concern for truth. Women and Wisdom: the relationship http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06F4Uyn0VzQ&li… Also you may want to read Otto Weiningers sex and character the best book you will ever read about the sexes i promise you http://www.theabsolute.net/ottow/schareng.pdf
Muslims don’t like the way I approach the subject of Islam and you don’t like the way I approach the subject of homosexuality. If I had to be careful about what others like and don’t like, I would not be able to say anything. It is important that we say what we believe. The critical analysis of Islam is tabu in Islamic countries and likewise the critical analysis of homosexuality is tabu in leftist dominated western culture. You can never find the truth in where opposing views are suppressed.
There is absolutely not scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic and there is plenty of cases where homosexuals have recovered from it. They have made websites and they are telling their stories helping anyone who cares to listen. Despite that people deny that any homosexual can change. There are many homosexuals who say they were not attracted to the same sex for the first part of their lives. Despite that we are told categorically that no one can become homosexual unless he or she is born that way. Anyone who expresses an opinion contrary to that is ridiculed, harassed and vilified. This is exactly how Muslims try to silence their critics. This is fascism. Why they resort to these dirty tactics? Why instead of rational arguments people who have a different view are maligned and ridiculed. It is because the don’t have any rational or scientific fact to back their claim.
The argument presented is that many scientists believe that homosexuality is genetic. But is there any scientific evidence to back that claim? No! There is none. Richard Dawkins says it is genetic. But does he have any evidence? No he doesn’t. These are argumentum ad veracundiam fallacies. Richard Dawkins can be wrong. He is wrong on many other things and this is one of them. He is also wrong in thinking religion is the source of all evil and all one has to do is eschew the belief of God and the world will become paradise. I am an atheists and I say he is dead wrong. The problem is not the belief in God. The problem is intolerance and his version of the society that allows no room for religious people and thinks anyone who believes in creation should not be elected as the president or leader of any country is just as evil and intolerant as Islam. Smart people can be wrong and they can say stupid things.
Stop believing in things because famous people, smart people, educated people, people in authority, or the majority of people say them. It is time that we use our own brain and ask for facts. If homosexuality were genetic, shouldn’t the father of gay men be also a little gay? We see no evidence that homosexuality run in families, they way blue eyes, or diabetics, or obesity do. This tells us that homosexuality is mostly, if not entirely, a psychological problem and not genetic.
These are useless talks. We have made many discoveries in human genome. Where is the gay gene? Why it has not been found yet? Why it does not run in families like other genetic traits do?
There are countless ex-gays who have written books and have websites telling others homosexuality can be overcome. If you don’t want to overcome yours, that is fine. But don’t mock those who want to get rid of it and want to lead a normal happy life.
This is all conditioning. I don’t eat meat anymore but I hate pork. I had a chines girlfriend who said she ate dog. This is utterly shocking to us, but chines eat dogs. They eat anything that moves, even scorpions. It is all conditioning.
“wishy washy world of the feminine (emotions)”? You can get rid of your misogyny and male chauvinism can you? No you read Nietzsche. That is fine. Read also other thinkers. Erick From, Jung are good reads.
phenotype is not an inherited thing, genotype is.
genotype + environment + interactions + psycology +….. → phenotype
some kind of birth control pills affect women's hormonal balance therefore affect which types of men/women they desire.
Lesbians are more than twice as likely to suffer from a hormone-related condition. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3032454.stm
Only if you understood the difference between facts,assertions and rhetoric.
Here is a small example for you. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1267923…
When Lily grows up,she'll have two mothers and no dad.That's where science is today,probably our minds haven't expanded accordingly to gauge its power.You wanted proof,here you are.The above incident is a fact.
On the other hand,your comment had nothing but assertions and rhetoric.Merely saying "Homosexuality is a disorder" doesn't make it a fact.The organizations which specialize in psychological disorders have to agree to that,or atleast there should be a consensus among experts on the subject.Unfortunately for you,neither do they agree to your FACT,nor is the consensus is advantageously skewed for you 🙂 The plethora of immensely successful people who are sexual minorities in enough evidence to refute your generalization of homosexuals as drug-addicted,diseased retards with childhood issues. 🙂
This distorted view on homosexuality isn't a phenomenon of Islam only.Homophobia is very prevalent in most cultures and in most cases the inspiration comes from faith,religious laws and cultural customs.Faith has an ability to make a normal person's worldview so distorted,that he doesn't even realize it.I don't know if that's your case,but it's highly probable that it is.
"including Enlightened25" Yes some of it, but I have deep disagreement with much else you write. I respect philosophers (wise men) and I don’t believe you’re a philosopher. You seem to me more like a therapist and some kind of carer. Dealing with trivial matters like relationship problems is something no philosopher would do, his concern is only with the ultimate, with truth and reality. Not with the wishy washy world of the feminine (emotions). I respect the Buddha’s, Nietzsche’s and Weininger’s, the men of the world who have striven to become truth itself I don’t think your on that level. For example you respect delusions if they provide “comfort” to people, this shows you don’t grasp the real meaning of truth nor do you value enlightenment as a goal, you put emotions and nonsense before that.
What nonsense? My analytical stand on homosexuality or homosexuality itself? You see I have categorized religious views. You see I have knowingly inserted percentage.
If I found homosexual around me I will call it maladaptive.
You are being part of universe, what you feel , whole of your being in this world is because of Heterosexuality. And this is an universal order.
Simply prove that your first dad make your other dad pregnant and you are able to see this world I will accept Homosexuality is not a disorder. What you think waxing your chest and dancing on street is making you evolved and liberal human?
Think n number of times Fact doesn't change " Homosexuality is a disorder "
Only if you understood the difference between facts,assertions and rhetoric.
I could have pointed you to two women having their own baby without a man,but what's the use?
It's almost impossible to have a meaningful conversation with you in English.
But unfortunately I'm an optimist.I see hope even in minds completely darkened by Islam and similar absolutist belief systems.
So here's the link for you. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1267923…
Hope you see some light,and finally recognize a fact from an assertion/rhetoric.
What is nonsense? My analytical stand on homosexuality or homosexuality itself? You see I have categorized religious views, you see I have knowingly inserted percentages.
If any one around me turn homosexual I will say its maladaptive.
You are being part of this universe, what is making you feel, whole of your being in this world is because of heterosexuality. And this is an universal order.
Simply give me proof that your first dad make your other dad pregnant and you are able to see this world, I will accept Homosexuality is not a disorder. What you think waxing you chest and dancing on street make you evolved, liberal human?
Think n number of times. Fact doesn't change "Homosexuality is a disorder"
Mood elevators, hormone levels doesn't affect homosexuality in women being psychological. Concerning sex it how orgasm is achieved decide whether its physiological or psychological disorder.
Some alteration in sex hormone or whatever it is. I didn't find any phenotype development of gay gene. Homosexuality can't be inherited as the act doesn't produce anything.
When I was of 16 years one of my friend who was of my age was telling about his sexual intercourse with child girl of 10 years old. By his erotic story I was also getting aroused and wanted to enjoy same pleasure.
I have seen the people who raised in environment where animal like pigs are killed to eat the pork and they do not feel ashamed while eating pork. But I was like to vomit when I listened from my friend that he was eating pork when I was at his house.
I agree absolutely agree with Ali Sina sir.
But an Islamofascist can say that too! "It's truth as we see it, even if it's unpopular". Usually you counter that with reason,arguments,evidence,research and that's the way it should be.
If you say "it's my view of the truth",it's just your opinion.If you read my last sentence,I didn't say you shouldn't voice your opinion.I said I didn't like your approach to this topic.It's unlike the way you would approach the propriety of an Islamic principle.
I'd have expected that you presented the facts on both sides before giving your conclusion.For example,the gay gene is an accepted enigma for evolutionary biologists.But there has been some progress in that direction,like the hypotheses Dawkins presented.There could be some more.But the article delivered an ultimatum like "Homosexuality can't be genetic because it doesn't help procreate which would have made it extinct".
This article gives the feeling that you believed Homosexuality is a disorder,and then brought in some stories and more conviction to support it.For some people,their uncommon sexual behavior would result from childhood issues and immediate environment,but disregarding the possibility of a genetic element in it based on no real data is not scientific at all.
I hope you take this criticism positively.
If u r gay then ur gay there is no evidence for any god.
god heaven and hell are concept which varies form across space, time and cult
fake ignorant barbaric Abraham religions.
there is no god its is belief with no evidence in 2012 its is stupidity
try abusing god see heaven hell broke apart or not.
be u r self fear none not even death or imaginary god.
I don't write to be popular. I write to voice the truth as I see it even though that truth is unpopular.
Actually Enlightened25 is not far from the truth. I just do some research and publish my thoughts. It happens that what I write resonate with many who like to read what I scribble, including Enlightened25 who has been reading them for over a decade. 😉
If you are happy to remain a homosexual, no one is forcing you go get out of it. But for those who want to live a normal life, There is help.
The medical community is politicized. When politics dominate science, truth will always suffer. But if any person is serious about get over his or her homosexuality, all they have to do is Google "how to recover from homosexuality" and they can find many sites made by ex- homosexuals who have done it and will tell you it is possible.
This is your choice and no one should take that away from you. I don't think one's sexuality is any other person's business. You want to be a gay, that is fine. You want to be a transvestite, that is also okay. But is you want to be a pedophile that is not okay. However one can get over all these paraphilea.
Don't get angry and don't insult those who think differently. Just say I am okay the way I am and don't try to promote lies to justify your choice.
Total nonsense.Some of the brightest mathematicians(one example comes to mind is Alan Turing),some of today's most talented artists,actors,musicians are homosexuals.
Homosexuals don't lead a depressed lives because of their faults,but because how our societies treat them.Imagine a life of perpetual fear of discovery,of being maligned.Most of us guys are nervous when approaching a girl they like.Imagine how a guy who likes other guys or a girl who likes other girls can approach them?What if the person they fancy are straight?Wouldn't they be ridiculed in public?Due to this fear I presume most gay people remain in closet until they become more confident in life.
What if your own son/daughter/brother/sister turns out to be a homosexual?Most people who are gays and have come out in the open about it have said they knew their orientation at puberty,the same time when everyone of us become sexually aware.
We should just recognize that others are different and move on,instead of suggesting treatment,bullying or subjecting others to social persecution.
Wonderful comment.
This is what an educated opinion should be like.
There is no evidence that gays/lesbians are like that only because of their surroundings and it's not a genetic trait.
There's a Youtube video of Richard Dawkins where he puts forward the most popular hypotheses for the gay gene.He was talking to a man who said he was gay and asked his opinion.The guy looked relieved after his answer.He had thought homosexuality is a disease or a disorder as you put it.But Dawkins said that homosexuality could be genetic and also could have evolutionary purpose in humans.
You could have a look at the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHDCAllQgS0
In most societies,including the most progressive ones,sexual minorities face enormous persecution.Just imagine how their condition would be in Sharia ruled countries,it'd be living hell.I had hoped you'd give him some positive advice.But you were no different.You just criticized Islam and did what Islam would do – suggest that it was a disease and he better get it cured.
You know what,there's another youtube video where a maulvi is asked by a homosexual man if his prayers would be heard by Allah and if he'll be killed if he publicized his identity.The maulvi suggested him to go visit a doctor and if he wouldn't leave homosexuality after that he'd be killed! I thought that was terrible,but I never thought your views on this would not be very different from a mullah.
Ali Sina,I generally like your approach to analysing a subject.But in this case I'm disappointed.
"The Royal College of Psychiatrists holds the view that lesbian, gay and bisexual
people are and should be regarded as valued members of society who have exactly
similar rights and responsibilities as all other citizens. This includes equal access to
health care, the rights and responsibilities involved in a civil partnership, the rights
and responsibilities involved in procreating and bringing up children, freedom to
practice a religion as a lay person or religious leader, freedom from harassment or
discrimination in any sphere and a right to protection from therapies that are
potentially damaging, particularly those that purport to change sexual orientation.
The Royal College of Psychiatrists believes strongly in evidence-based treatment.
There is no sound scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.
Furthermore, so-called treatments of homosexuality create a setting in which
prejudice and discrimination flourish.
There is now a large body of research evidence that indicates that being gay, lesbian
or bisexual is compatible with normal mental health and social adjustment. However,
the experiences of discrimination in society and possible rejection by friends, families
and others, such as employers, means that some lesbian, gay and bisexual people
experience a greater than expected prevalence of mental health and substance
misuse problems.
Good Psychiatric Practice (3rd Edition) clearly states: “A psychiatrist must provide
care that does not discriminate and is sensitive to issues of gender, ethnicity, colour,
culture, lifestyle, beliefs, sexual orientation, age and disability” (page 12, point 13).
The Royal College"
Provide me with your sources…I have not learned about homosexuality from media…In fact in my country most people are shy to speak of anything related to sex or sexuality in media. I really don't care what media says…But no credible medical authority has ever claimed that homosexuality is a disease or disorder…Nor has anyone, to the best of my knowledge, claimed to have cured it…
Homosexuality is just as normal as heterosexuality. Just as heteros grow up to be attracted by opposite sex, homos get attracted by same sex. Pedophilia, zoophilia, necrophilia, etc are disorders developed due to mental stress, drugs etc…They are not sexual orientation but negative deviations. Homosexuality, Heterosexuality, Bisexuality etc are positive sexual behaviours as recognized by WHO under ICD 10.
The American Psychiatric Association "affirms that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality regardless of sexual orientation identity; reaffirms its position that homosexuality per se is not a mental disorder and opposes portrayals of sexual minority youths and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation; concludes that there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation; encourages mental health professionals to avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts by promoting or promising change in sexual orientation when providing assistance to individuals distressed by their own or others’ sexual orientation; concludes that the benefits reported by participants in sexual orientation change efforts can be gained through approaches that do not attempt to change sexual orientation; concludes that the emerging knowledge on affirmative multiculturally competent treatment provides a foundation for an appropriate evidence-based practice with children, adolescents and adults who are distressed by or seek to change their sexual orientation; advises parents, guardians, young people, and their families to avoid sexual orientation change efforts that portray homosexuality as a mental illness or developmental disorder and to seek psychotherapy, social support and educational services that provide accurate information on sexual orientation and sexuality, increase family and school support, and reduce rejection of sexual minority youth; encourages practitioners to consider the ethical concerns outlined in the 1997 APA Resolution on Appropriate Therapeutic Response to Sexual Orientation, in particular the following standards and principles: scientific bases for professional judgments, benefit and harm, justice, and respect for people’s rights and dignity; encourages practitioners to be aware that age, gender, gender identity, race, ethnicity, culture, national origin, religion, disability, language, and socioeconomic status may interact with sexual stigma, and contribute to variations in sexual orientation identity development, expression, and experience; opposes the distortion and selective use of scientific data about homosexuality by individuals and organizations seeking to influence public policy and public opinion and will take a leadership role in responding to such distortions; supports the dissemination of accurate scientific and professional information about sexual orientation in order to counteract bias that is based in lack of knowledge about sexual orientation; and encourages advocacy groups, elected officials, mental health professionals, policy makers, religious professionals and organizations, and other organizations to seek areas of collaboration that may promote the wellbeing of sexual minorities."
Listen , if we disagree with Mr. Sina in a subject or two it does not mean we do not appreciate all his work on evil islam .People who believe in Mohammed ,can they criticize him in anything???
"You will come to realise this guy is not a scholar of anything. He is just an anonymous guy on a internet site no more scholar than you or me."
No more scholar than you or me??? Really? Where is your website enligntened(ha)? Where is your research material? Have YOU ever been able to convince anyone of anything?
Homosexuality is complex but in most cases it is a form of disorder. Many homosexuals have recovered from it. When people are so misled with lies that they don't even want to admit that this is a disorder, then how can they find a cure for it? Obesity, is not normal. It is a disorder. Anorexia is also an eating disorder. Fetishism, zoophilia, pedophilia and homosexuality are all sexual disorders. All these disorders have a psychological component. It is not easy to get rid of them therefore it is not entirely correct to say they are a choice. However, once the psychological component is addressed it is possible to get rid of all these disorders.
People can become homosexual and this is a fact the many homosexual tell us. Likewise countless people have recovered from it. There are many books and website by ex-homosexuals helping any homosexual who wants to get over his or her disorder.
I did my research and it was then that I realize everything I had read in the media about homosexuality were lies. It is not easy to get rid of it, it's a form of addiction. But one can get rid of any addiction. If we have only one person who has been cured of it, it proves my point and we have thousands. If we have only one person who was straight and has become gay or lesbian, it proves my point and we have thousands.
"You are definitely a scholar in Islam," You will come to realise this guy is not a scholar of anything. He is just an anonymous guy on a internet site no more scholar than you or me. Except this anonymous believes he has found a the solution to most of the worlds evils – Islam. Indeed he has unlocked the whole mystery behind Muhammad and thanks to his work a new world of “gentleness” will sweep mankind all thanks just to this one anonymous guy who single handily was the first to realise and expose the enigma of Muhammad. He doesn’t sound like a scholar he sounds like a wannabe messiah.
"They lose the joy of parenthood and I don't think the relationship between two men can be the same and the relationship between a man and a woman." Utter bullshit, their is no reason why 2 men cannot raise a child at least as well as a man and women. Or what would be even better is if the whole community helped raise children, that would be more sane and rational. Once again Ali Sina dictates to the world how people should live and who can and cannot raise children. There is nothing sacred about sex, it is an unconscious animal act. Do you think the sex worshipping culture of the west is "normal"? Do you think the fact the world population is 7 BILLION is normal? 100 years ago it was 1 billion carry on being "normal" and we are going to kill ourselves. This is what happens when you value men being like apes and find nothing more pleasing than women being like a bitch on heat.
I mentioned homosexuals help population control to show not only homosexuals do not harm anybody but also has a good side effect. I did not say we should promote homosexuality to contol population . Before you call someone dungheaded find out what he means.
there is also physiological Homosexuality in women. All due to hormone levels.
Some birth control pills affect women physiologically (hormones) so they become less attracted to their husbands and attracted to someone else man or woman.
like you said No one is born homosexual but as the person grows up, his genes are affected.
You have phenotype and genotype.
for example identical twins have the same genotype (such as DNA) but not the same phenotype which explains the difference in fingerprints and some other features.
To get to the point, our genes get modified "phenotypically" as we grow. your face, your eyebrows, your features, your body, your brain all will be different from even your clone.
as they grow, kids' psychology somehow affects their genes and therefore their hormones into homosexuality.
Of course there are people whose genes were not affected and later psychologically became gay
Ali Sina…You seem to be seriously ill informed in this matter..Please Doc, do some real research from genuine medical journals. You seem to be a traditionalist and conservative, but please speak some sense. No one in their right mind can possibly compare changing food habits with changing sexual orientation. Neither can anyone embrace homosexuality nor can anyone leave it. For the sake of humanity, which you speak of in great lengths, stop posting these horribly lunatic advices. You must realize that this is a very serious issue. You might considers homosexuals abnormal or perverted and view them with disgust, but kindly wait and think. Your silly advices might destroy someone's life. I have heard of may cases where homosexuals, advised by pseudo intellectuals of your kind, have tried best to change their sexual orientations and ended up hanging themselves from the ceiling in frustration. Please stop this retarded nonsense. I thought you really cared for humanity.
There is no question of being shameless since there should be no shame in being homosexual just like there is no shame in being a woman or a black.
And those who claim that homosexuality is a means to control population are equally dungheaded.
Mr. Sina,
This is the first time I seem to disagree with you. Those who claim to have preference for both sexes are called bisexuals. That need not mean that homosexuals can 'become' heterosexuals by watching pornography or forcing themselves to feel attracted to opposite sex. Sexuality is far more complex than we seem to believe. Its not black and white. Also there's difference between pedophilia and homosexuality. Pedophilia has been listed as a negative sexual disorder, on the other hand homosexuality is a very much positive sexual orientation. Organizations like NARTH, that claims to 'cure' homosexuality have been debunked as hoax and propaganda oriented by most reputed medical and psychiatric institutions of the world.
I request you not to give this guy any half witted advice that might do more damage to him. You are definitely a scholar in Islam, but your advice to this fellow can be seriously detrimental to him and others like him. So I would request you to remove that part of the post where you have asked him to try and change his sexual orientation.
Rafiq,
You are a homosexual and so you are and so are millions like you. You are very much a normal and as much mentally sound as the next person. Please stop thinking that you are cursed or mentally ill. The problem is not which you but this society which loves to brand labels like 'normal/abnormal' as per their own lopsided and prejudiced notions. Most people seem to hate those who are different from them. And this hatred is partly caused by fear of that which is unknown and untested. The cure to this problem is openness and matured discussions with intellectuals.
Please dear, do not try to forcibly convert yourself to something else. That will do more damage to you. What you need is counseling from a reputed NGO dedicated to LGBT rights, HIV AIDS etc. I am from India. As you might know in my country too there's a general, but unofficial, taboo on anything related to sex and sexuality. People think sex is a very dirty topic and should not be discussed. Consequently due to lack of communication, the prejudiced notions continue to thrive unchallenged. Several homosexuals are killed in villages by their own kins while in cities many of them commit suicide after frustrating attempts to make themselves *normal* and acceptable to the society. Thankfully, in recent years several NGOs have joined hands to eradicate this taboo and bring to homosexuals and transsexuals their right to life and liberty. I was associated with such organization by the name Naz Foundation. They have in fact managed to strike down the laws penalizing homosexuality in IPC. I can tell you with certainty that no credible health organization or research institute, including WHO and APA, considers homosexuality to be any disease or disorder nor has any of them claimed to have cured it. Most civilized nations have come to terms with this fact. Infact many states have even started recognizing homosexual marriages.
Mr Sina, whom I thought to be a learned fellow, disappointed me this time. Forgive me if I say that his suggestions where silly and unscholarly to say the least. Please do not try to "cure" yourself, simply because you have no disease in the first place. You are NOT a weirdo, You are NOT abnormal, You are NOT sick, You are NOT cursed, You are NOT a sinner. Your only problem seems to be lack of proper knowledge and guidance, which is but obvious in conservative states like yours and mine. There are millions of people around the world who are happy with their homosexuality and their same sex partners. Its not an anomaly or disease and definitely not a sin.
Wish you luck and happiness.
Saying homosexuality is learned, it does not mean homosexuals have a really easy choice. Is obesity a choice? Ultimately it is, but it is not easy and it requires emotional, psychological and all sorts of help to overcome obesity. The same applies to homosexuality. Now you say why not respect their choice. If someone wants to remain gay, no one should oppose it, but there are many who want to get out of it and for these people there is help. All I am saying is not to hide the truth, stop promoting lies. Homosexuality can be conquered just a obesity can be conquered.
As for the argument that the world is over populated so homosexuality is one way of population control, I think this is very evil. Gay people are humans and they want to have children. Population will come down with education as it is falling in all developed countries. We don't have to deprive a segment of the society to experience the joy of parenthood to reduce world population.
Strawberry is a great food. But sure I could live without it., However, gay people miss a lot more. They lose the joy of parenthood and I don't think the relationship between two men can be the same and the relationship between a man and a woman. Men and women are different and they both gain by complementing each other.
Anyway, as I said, my advise is for those who want to leave homosexuality. They should not give up. There is hope. But if they want to stay, they should not be stopped. They harm no one and their choice should be respected. Just don't promote and don't advertise it to others. That is my only beef with the homosexuals. They claim it is not a choice and yet brazenly and shamelessly promote it.
Hi Mr. Sina
Even if we could prove that homosexuality is learned behavior , why don't we respect people's choice.As our planet being over populated I believe these people are doing us a favor and do not procreate more people.You said you did not like strawberries and pushed yourself by mixing it with ice cream and little by little you began to like it . Why can't you enjoy other berries and enjoy other things that you already like and let people know strawberry is not your favorite fruit. There is nothing wrong with that.
Homosexuality is not like pedophiles that harm others. It is a choice between two consenting adults…
in muslim country everyone knows what is good for everyone else.they don't have tolerance for individuality.that is why they have intelligent muslims but nobody listens to them.they listen to mullahs who only push them back to 7 th century.
Ex-Muslims and LGBT folks both face the same identity crises. However both have different reasons to be recognized and accepted by religion. Most of homosexuals want to be accepted by religion with their orientation while apostate reject religion and behave like once married with wrong husband.
Religiously : There are lots of orthodox, traditional , liberal views and implementation of laws on homosexuality. Homosexuality is sin in Islam similar to extra-marital heterosexual sex.
Physiologically : Homosexuality in men are more physiological and less psychological disorder while in women its totally psychological disorder. Gays are basically addicted to pleasure of relaxation of sphincters which are naturally built for functioning of excretory system. This addiction is similar to addiction of other muscle relaxant like nicotine or marijuana.
Nafsiat : Homosexuals are more pathetic, self indulgent, sensitive with obvious hollow mentality
Myth : Born this Way – This total evil concept that sexual preferences cannot be changed. There are not any proved biological or genetic differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals.
Socially : This is only sexual oriented relationship 75% of homosexuals have one night stand theory. Homosexuals prefer to get high on drugs, alcohol to cope up with depression. Homosexuals more open to be victim of STD and lethal diseases like AIDS. More than 80 % homosexual are less happy than average heterosexual.All these bring whack societies
Remedy : Religious, social, psychological etc as prescribed
Muslim arabs are more into homosexuality because they are conditioned by gender separation. Islam makes hypocrites out of muslims,
Do you have any statistical evidence people can become paedophile? Furthermore if what you say is true then why isn’t used and is successful? If it is this easy then maybe even paedophiles and psychopaths could be cured? Of course you can’t do that because psychopaths for example have structural abnormalities in their brains. Even if you could get them to modify their behaviour they cannot heal their personality, at least not until we find out how to reprogram peoples brains. It is same with homosexuals their brains are different, it is simple not the case the persons personality could be “cured” of homosexuality by simple therapy. At the very most it seems to me the person could become a bisexual.
i don't understand why homosexual and fornicators are punished harasssly in this muslim countries , while it is a personal choice why it is not like by muslims , why allah cannot accept human pleasures , nudism is a personal choice in western world , why nobody is abused by their fellow persons , even there there are thousands of tribes nude why there are no case of abuse,molestations or rape cases among them , good ,bad is all man made things god has nothing to do with it , if god hates this then why he created things ,
No it is not absurd. Watch child porn and you become a pedophile. Watch beheading and you eventually become desensitized and may be able to do it. That is how Muslims terrorists prepare their young jihadis. Yes you can watch enough gay porn and eventually you will feel attracted to men. I don't want to do it, but if you think it is nonsense, try it for a year or two. Since you don't believe me, you have nothing to fear. Give it a try.
This theory is not unknown. It is used amply by psychologists. Patients can overcome their fear of insects, or height, or public speaking, but imagining. Any time you think about something your neurons from new connections and the more you repeat those thoughts the easier it will become for the same connections to be formed.
I overcame my dislike of strawberries through this process. I could not stand the smell of strawberry for twenty years. I decided that is stupid. I must overcome that and slowly I familiarized my self with this fruit, first by smelling it and then by tasting in in small doses mixed with ice cream and jam and gradually I learned to love it again. I was 11 when I went to North of Iran in a summer and we stopped on the side of the road and bought a jar of temeshk, a variety of blackberry. I over ate and suddenly I felt nauseated. I could not eat any black berry and even strawberry that tasted like it for almost 20 years after that.
Classical conditioning works. I knew a woman who feared spiders to such an extent that she could not see their pictures in a book. I told her how to get over her phobia. She did it and overcome her fear completely to such an extent that she could take spiders in her palm.
"Although his poems" Sappho was a women. "Don’t force yourself. Watch the faces and the bodies of naked women in erotic pose and discover their beauty. Do it slowly until you start seeing them sexually appealing." Okay this is your "cure" is it? If this is the case you could make millions from your "cure". Of course you could see if this absurd theory is true or not by watching gay porn and see if you become homosexual. Hell if this is true anyone can start changing even inborn behaviours, watch a few beheading videos and then you may be able to cut someone’s head off with no hesitation. Watch child porn and you will become paedophile. This is utterly absurd.