The Evolution of Mankind and the Dawn of a Spiritual Civilization
The evolution of the species is observable. This really we can’t deny. However, I am not a Darwinist and I don’t subscribe to the notion that the survival of the fittest can explain the entire evolutionary process. The impulse of evolution is spiritual.
This is actually a knowledge I gained many year ago in flash of epiphany. I was taking shower when in just a few seconds perceived some information that answered all my questions, even the ones I had not posed. It was not like learning new things but rather remembering. I stood there, saying, “Yes, yes, of course.” It was as if I knew all that and had forgotten it. Everything was coming back to me in a flash.
Although the experience was overwhelming and I thought about it for some time, eventually I ignored it. Now that I am reading about the NDE of others, I see many of them describe the same thing.
The process of evolution is correct, as Darwin explained it. However, there is a spiritual force behind it that Henry Bergson coined as elan vital or the vital force. This elan vital is immaterial. It appears in organic matter. As the organization of matter becomes more complex the size and the faculties of the elan vital increase.
What Bergson called elan vital is what our ancestors called soul. Volvox is an organism, or is it? You can break the unity of volvox and its components can live independent from each other. By coming together they can work in conjunction as if there is a mind controlling the entire group. The organism suddenly acquires a super-mind that is responsible for the behavior of their collectivity. You can observe the same phenomenon in a school of fish, a skein of geese, a host of sparrows, a flock of sheep, a swarm of bees, etc. Who controls these animals in group? How a murmuration of starlings know when to turn right or left simultaneously without an apparent leader? Watching hundreds of thousands of starlings move synchronically without bumping to each other, forming amazing shapes in sky is fascinating. How can they do that?
A Murmuration of Starlings or a Dance of God?
There seems to be that by coming together these animals become recipient of their super mind. This super mind is of spiritual nature. Whenever organisms of the same species come together and work jointly in harmony they become the seat of their super consciousness that takes control of them and moves them as if they were a single organism.
The entire evolution is based on this principle. Atoms are formed when particles join together. Particles are alive. But when they are organized as atom, they become the seat of a new spirit: the spirit of atom. Atoms are alive, even though their life is so primitive that we don’t consider them living. The process continues. Atoms form molecules, molecules form mega molecules, mega molecules form proteins, proteins form cells and cells form big organisms like humans. In each stage of the evolution matter becomes the seat of a bigger spirit and more “lively.” The cells composing your body are individually alive, but there is no comparison between your life and theirs.
Darwin was not wrong. His description of evolution was correct. But he did not see the spiritual force behind it. This spiritual force explains why despite entropy evolution is incremental. Why organisms are growing more complex instead of more disorderly.
In my spiritual experience, I also learned that humans are at the verge of a new evolutionary saltation. The old world is dying and a new one is being born. The suffering in the world is nothing but the birth pang of this new birth.
I had my experience before Internet became popular, back in late 1980s. Now I can see how this new evolutionary process in our species is taking place. Technology in general and the Internet in particular are the catalyzers. The Internet is making all minds to merge. At first there will be collision. We have lived segregated from each other for thousands of years, each nation creating her culture, religion and idiosyncrasy. The clash is inevitable. Eventually, we’ll come together. Truth will prevail and mankind will be united. When that happens, humanity will become a super organism, the seat of the spirit of the super spirit of humanity. This Super Spirit is none but God. All spirits are God. God is in every living being. But when humanity becomes united, it can capture the most magnificent God’s consciousness. It is impossible for any person to grasp this let alone describe it. Imagine a cell in your body trying to grasp your consciousness. How futile would that be? But by working together, all your cells become you and can attain a consciousness that is impossible for them individually.
By becoming one super organism we won’t lose our individuality and freedom any more that a fish in school looses her individuality and freedom. But the sum will be far greater than its parts. Mankind will attain a new consciousness that at this moment is inconceivable to us. We will be able to communicate with other advanced civilizations in other parts of the universe, telepathically. We will be able to tap into the energies that are unknown to us today because they are of different dimensions. We will have control over the forces of the nature, such as earthquakes, volcanoes, tides and even the Sun. We would be able to move planets, including the Earth at will or pulverize them. There will be no need for doctors, because there will be no diseases. All diseases will be removed from human genome. Conflicts will not be resolved through courts or wars, but through prayers. We will be able to remain in touch with our deceased loved ones. All this and more will happen in this millennium, but we will start seeing the transformation as early as the end of this century or the beginning of the next. The babies of today, or their children will witness the dawn of the new mankind.
@Alisina
” you said I lack human decency for saying things that you don’t agree with. ” I did not say you lack decency for saying things I don’t agree with I said you lack decency for preaching things which you do not and cannot possible know.
“This was the first and the most important clue that you are just a troll.” If this is your understanding of troll then pretty much everyone who debates on Internet is troll,
“Intelligent people don’t resort to adhominem.” It was not ad hominem it was a fact I have demonstrated.
“You clearly don’t know the difference between the testimony of faith and eye witness testimony. While the testimony of faith of billions of people is not evidence of the truth of their belief we hear the testimony of a single eye witness in court and value that. ” Their is a difference between claiming this is the man who tried to steal my car and here is the man I saw rise from the dead. Different claims require different standards of evidence.
“You say this because you have no interest in truth and are engaging in mudslinging because you have run out of arguments.” I have answered this in a rational way so I am not mudslinging. So you have to demonstrate what I have said is false or fallacious if you can’t then it is you that is mudslinging with no interest in truth.
“But when the same testimony is given by millions of people dismissing all that is sheer arrogance, dogmatism and stupid” If you are talking about the NDE this is evidence that when someone comes close to death they have this experience (or, if not near death, in a situation of physical or emotional crisis and certain drugs also can also trigger it). The fact that millions of people have claimed to have had such experience does not mean that it was happening outside their brain.
“The NDE experiencers have nothing to gain. Many of them did not tell their stories to anyone outside their family for years for the fear of being called mad. They don’t come telling others that they are chosen and that people should follow them.” Again this is not evidence of any afterlife. People can be transformed by all kinds of things (for better or worse).
“Is your intelligence so low that you can’t see the difference or is it that you just throw anything in the hope that some of it may stick?” Can you see the differences between claiming you detached from your body and went to heaven or some other realm and simply saying you had a lucid experience (which can be produced for example by drugs and chemicals in the brain) of heaven, lights, Angels and so on?
“Sorry John. I gave you my time and attention but you proved to be an unworthy contender. Good bye.” That is why you haven’t refuted anything I said And simply tried to insult my intelligence. If you don’t want to continue to debate then fine perhaps you publish your beliefs simply expecting everyone to agree with them without question and it seems like all believers you get angry and feel insulted when anyone disagrees with you and refuse any further discussion.
@John
The more you write the more you reveal your lack of understanding of basic logic. First you said I lack human decency for saying things that you don’t agree with. This was the first and the most important clue that you are just a troll. Intelligent people don’t resort to adhominem. Now you say, “Billions of Muslims testify everyday their is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger according to your reasoning that is good reason to accept Islam – since personal testimony is all that’s needed.”
You clearly don’t know the difference between the testimony of faith and eye witness testimony. While the testimony of faith of billions of people is not evidence of the truth of their belief we hear the testimony of a single eye witness in court and value that. If you don’t know this then you are wasting our time. No one with commonsense would make such silly comparison and honestly I doubt you are this stupid. You say this because you have no interest in truth and are engaging in mudslinging because you have run out of arguments.
Of course we should not accept the testimony of one person because he could be lying. But when the same testimony is given by millions of people dismissing all that is sheer arrogance, dogmatism and stupid.
Why then we should reject Muhammad’s claim of ascension to heaven? Because it does not fit the pattern! People who go to the other world don’t ride a winged mule to get there. The communication is not verbal. Many people meet God. The self-proclaimed preferred prophet of God was not allowed to meet Him. When people go to heaven and come back they are transformed. They don’t hurt others nor strive to amass wealth and power. Muhammad on the other hand started raiding, looting and raping people and bragged that God promised him the wealth of this world. All these show he was a liar. The NDE experiencers have nothing to gain. Many of them did not tell their stories to anyone outside their family for years for the fear of being called mad. They don’t come telling others that they are chosen and that people should follow them.
Is your intelligence so low that you can’t see the difference or is it that you just throw anything in the hope that some of it may stick?
Sorry John. I gave you my time and attention but you proved to be an unworthy contender. Good bye.
@Phoenix
“They cannot produce any truths,it is a position which craps on the ideas of others and resorts to ‘celebrating uncertainty’ when pressed for answers.” Which is an honest position (if you personally don’t know or if it’s not possible to know) – instead of claiming to know things which you don’t and which you cannot possibly know.
Having said that,I will forward a resolution for any Atheist that might be interested in.
“The conscious mind is materiall”.
I will be arguing con (against) and the one who accepts the challenge will be arguing for (pro) the resolution.
Debate rules as follows:
1.Round one is for acceptance
R2.Opening arguments
R3.Rebuttals
R4.Further rebuttals and closing”
Well here is my opening arguments.
1) If consciousness is not material it couldn’t be affected by the material.
2)their is a relationship between brain complexity and a species cognitive traits “We find that the greater the size of the brain and its cerebral cortex in relation to the animal body and the greater their complexity, the higher and more versatile the form of life.”
3) Mental abilities emerge with the development of the brain; failure in brain development prevents mental development.
4) evidence from cases of brain damage that result from accidents, toxins, diseases, and malnutrition that often result in irreversible losses of mental functioning. If the mind could exist independently of the brain, why couldn’t the mind compensate for lost faculties when brain cells die after brain damage?
5) Experiments in neuroscience show that electrical or chemical stimulation of the brain invokes perceptions, memories, desires, and other mental states.
6)The effects of mind altering drugs which predictable affect mental states.
@Ali Sina
Consciousness does not need the brain. It exists independent from the brain. ”
You then contradict yourself and say
“The brain is nothing more than an interface. This interface is necessary only when consciousness interacts with the physical world.”‘So is brain necessary or not answer this question? Also we are excepted to believe all though your life your consciousness needs your brain then suddenly as the brain is dying and is starved of oxygen consciousness magically lifts of the brain and can function many times better without it? Is this belief rational Mr true skeptic?
” In the article Why I believe in God and the afterlife now I explained how memory is not stored in the brain. It is in fact stored nowhere in the body.” It is stored across the brain and not any particular part if you knew anything about neuroscience you would know this.
“. If it is damaged our experience here is impaired. But the damage does not affect us at all. ” When you are brain dead it certainly does effect us – sines consciousness is no longer possible.
“We need a physical body to operate in the physical world.” If that’s true then we need our brain and the brain dies.
” Spirit can affect the material world but in a very limited way. ” According to you, you are spirit so spirit defiantly can affect the material world.
“I know there is life after death It is you who are dishonest and insist in upholding your dogma instead of accepting the fact” You know no such thing.
. “You are so dishonest that don’t even care to look into the mountain of evidence.” Their is no mountain of evidence unless you think personal testimony is evidence in which case you should accept Muhammed flew to heaven on a horse.
“If you go scuba diving you need an oxygen capsule. But you don’t need it when you are out of the water. In this physical world we need a physical interface/vehicle. Our body is nothing but a tool that our spirit uses to operate here. ” In that case we should to able to get out our body whether we want to – not just when we die or come close to death. But obviously no one has such ability the reason being is that consciousness does need the brain and body to function and exist.
“Murder is a crime because it interferes with the growth of someone else and bring pain and suffering to his survivors” You mean because of their deluded belief that he is in fact dead and they know they will never see him again? They can end their suffering and join they loved one- which shouldn’t be a problem since death doesn’t exist.
.” If you deliberately damage someone’s car you are liable. The fact that you did not hurt him personally is no excuse. You damaged his car, and cause a lot of anguish. That is a crime. We can cause pain but we can’t destroy a soul. We harm ourselves when we hurt others. ” You say the car is an illusion and the anguish caused is nothing but delusion. In fact pain and suffering in this life is good because it helps people progress in the spirit world
“The claim that the consciousness survives is a fact. ” To you it might be a fact, but to sane rational people it is a fantasy no different to believing that a car or your computer survives its destruction and is existing in a magical world of dead computers.
“If you had a grain of honesty you would search the truth for yourself. I did and I found it. This discovery does not make me an expert of all things spiritual. So I tell you what I don’t know. ” You didn’t say “I don’t know” you said you have explanation for example you claimed all memory of the spirit world is wiped out when we come back, you did not explain how you know this or give any reason for making such a ridiculous claim.
“And I welcome any response. But when you come here saying I lack common human decency for not saying what you want hear, you are way over your limit. I welcome intelligent and animated discussions, but not adhominems and personal attacks. If you want to be rude when you feel defeated, I have no time for you. Make your point and let the readers make their minds. ” any of the readers who are rational can see who is defeated. It’s not ad hominem to call out a persons lies and say when they are saying ridiculous things. Unfortunately their is no polite way to say you are deluded.
“You don’t agree with me. That is okay. I don’t expect everyone to have the IQ if Einstein. But calling me a liar just because you disagree is not only stupid it is very rude. People don’t have to agree with each other but that does not meant they are liars.” If you are preaching things which you personally don’t know to be true then that is lying. Creationists for instance do that and it is correct and right to call them liars, like I before though deluded actually believe in the lies so you it might not strictly be correct to say you are a liar.
” I don’t think you are a liar.” That’s because you would be shown to be wrong – since I haven’t made grandiose claims about things of which I know nothing about and cannot possibly know.
” I just found out you are a rude and arrogant person. This I have evidence for. ” Show I am wrong then and refute my arguments rationally otherwise you are just engaging in ad hominem yourself
“I know this in the same way I know God exists and Jesus is the king in Heaven. I did not believe in any of these things. ” Blind faith then.
“I learned them after reading the testimony of hundreds of people who died and returned. “Billions of Muslims testify everyday their is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger according to your reasoning that is good reason to accept Islam – since personal testimony is all that’s needed.
“I have to take them for their words. This is something you are unwilling to do, because you are not a seeker. ” You mean I am unwilling to have blind faith and accept anything and everything these people say without question?
“. If you were after the truth, you would spend some time reading the stories of NDE or even better watch the Youtube videos because by looking at these people you would know they are not making things up.” I have seen many accountants not one of them is convincing or provides any actual evidence that conscious exists independent of brain and survives death. For example I seen 1 where the person said it went to hell, what on earth this claim has to do with evidence of life after death? None because such a claim is not evidence that 1) They actually died (which they cannot have done because they wouldn’t be coming back to tell us about it. 2) The experience (if it happened at all) is not entirely imaginary or a hallucination.
” But you have no interest in truth. You think you have it already, and hence why waste time. Isn’t this how every dogmatic person thinks?” Don’t you believe you you have truth then? You must do since you claim the most outlandish things with confidence. And yes why waste time because if you are wrong then you are indeed wasting your precious time here on earth believing in a fantasy world.
All these years I looked at you with awe as a rationalist with a strong scientific world view and objectivity, rooted in sound logic and reasoning. Your brilliant endeavor exposing a pseudo-‘religion’ is highly commendable.//
The authentic religionbeing what?Materialism? It seems logic means agreeing with philosophical materialism.
But now, how come, you are found captivated by NDE of all, which is nothing but subjective first person improvisations of some (particularly) Christian ‘believers’, who seem to have been inflicted by psychotic conditions (TLE syndrome?), which have the tendency to spread fast infectiously (meme?) among the pre-disposed believers? //
Can you prove that those NDErs suffer(ered) from temporal lobe epilepsy? You then take it upon yourself to extrapolate from your conjecture that all theist believers are susceptible to TLE.One word:Evidence?
But earlier, you had dismissed the story of Bill Wiese (and of course, Mohammed’s ascension to heaven on a steed and having a chat with the god – but alas god could not pull him up bodily when he actually died,) and also you said ‘Believers fabricate myths.//
Muhammad’s ascenscion to heaven via Buraq (the flying horese) is a unique phenomena,not experienced and reported by anyone else.Most NDE testimonies are similar with a few cultural variations.
They do it with utmost sincerity. They lie with clear conscience out of faith. The testimony of believers is not valid because their objectivity is questionable….”//
You have made universal statements with zero proof.You cannot possibly back this up.
As one who is not convinced about divinity, spirits, heaven, hell, etc. in the present scenario of human knowledge, I fail to comprehend your recent leanings. If you really converse with Jesus (god?), can you recall the topics and contents of those conversations? If at all an entity called god exists, I can’t accept that it is endowed with sense organs (hence by inference necessarily brain, neural system and the whole lot of physiological attributes including gender –as we humans do). It should be emotion-neutral ‘being’ with no special commitment to humans. What do humans gain and/or do substantially, when they enter heaven? Hell is stocked with fire/boiling oil only, no lasers, X & Gamma rays? Do myriad organisms including plants, fungi, microbes, etc. have place in the heaven? Do they sin – are to be punished/rewarded for their deeds? What purpose does such translocation serve, after all? Isn’t all this the silly product of fantasizing human mind? I don’t think one needs religion, spirituality, prayers, etc. to be a good human being. And, what after all is a prayer substantially, other than showering praises and/or asking for favors ? //
Your understanding of God and the afterlife is as primitive as the religious fundamentalist you despise.Contemporary dualists reject such caricatures of God and the afterlife,they have much more sophisticated beliefs.
Further, you have come to ascribing ‘spirits’ to inanimate things, so much so that you see life in particles, atoms, molecules and so on. I am at loss to grasp this as a well-defined concept, and its substance. (It seems your mind is straying into a state of ‘auto-suggestion’ we humans are prone to).//
You reject life in particles and atoms but is DNA not comprised of billions of atoms?
As is well known, living beings are endowed with the unique property to reproduce and propagate (and biologically evolve), unlike in inanimate physical world.//
Is that all there is to life,the ability to reproduce and propagate?
In that case,machines are alive too,since they can reproduce.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/05/0511_050511_robots.html
In fact, origin of life was a very long drawn and complex (and must be one time) activity eventually leading to the formation of DNA(and RNA) with the extraordinary dual property of 1) Replication and 2) Transcription/translation – the latter leading to the synthesis of proteins to be the structural and functional basis of the living world.//
Origin of life occured only one time? Of course you can’t substantiate that claim and two,you’re probably hoping such a claim would relieve you from the responsiblity to provide emprical evidence that could be indpendently replicated.Or does the Atheist account of “origin of life” exclude replication in its evidential criteria?
Challengingly, since DNA to form/function requires enzymes [proteins], and proteins to form in turn need DNA, a major daunting question “How the ‘DNA-Protein-DNA’ brew (since one needs the other to come into being) might have initially emerged at all, when life dawned on this planet”, is still open to the scientists.//
This is the Atheist’s version of the Rapture.”One day,science will show us the origin of life.” This is purely faith-based.
BTW have you visited the website skeptic.com?//
Seen one,seen them all.They are irrational sites promoting pathological skepticism.
Ali Sina
I’ve been a bit longer skeptical of Atheist claims than you’ve been.Debating with Atheists you’d have to understand the mindset of an Atheist.They cannot produce any truths,it is a position which craps on the ideas of others and resorts to ‘celebrating uncertainty’ when pressed for answers.They use various sophistical techniques,that circumvent known rules of logic and cannot produce a sound deduction to save their lives.The question to ask an Atheist is does his epistemology recognize absolute truths and how can they be known?
===
Having said that,I will forward a resolution for any Atheist that might be interested in.
“The conscious mind is materiall”.
I will be arguing con (against) and the one who accepts the challenge will be arguing for (pro) the resolution.
Debate rules as follows:
1.Round one is for acceptance
R2.Opening arguments
R3.Rebuttals
R4.Further rebuttals and closing
Consciousness does not need the brain. It exists independent from the brain. The brain is nothing more than an interface. This interface is necessary only when consciousness interacts with the physical world. In the article Why I believe in God and the afterlife now I explained how memory is not stored in the brain. It is in fact stored nowhere in the body. Since memory is part of consciousness, we can deduce that no part of consciousness is stored in the brain or in any part of the body. Consciousness is the driver, the operating system of the body, it is independent from it.
“So you are now saying consciousness doesn’t need the brain at all?”
I am not saying this “now” I have been saying this for over a year now.
“Furthermore you believe in the concept of soul – which is immaterial and doesn’t need any physical tool or device with which to “process” consciousness.”
That is right. The brain and in fact all our physical body is a vehicle that our consciousness uses to interact with the material world. When we come to this world to play this game of virtual reality, we put on a goggle, wear a headset and cut out our senses and communication with the world of spirit to experience this world in its fullest. This body is only a vehicle. If it is damaged our experience here is impaired. But the damage does not affect us at all. When the game is over and we remove our goggle and headset, we can hear with our own (spiritual) ears and see with our own (spiritual eyes. We need a physical body to operate in the physical world. Spirit can affect the material world but in a very limited way. To operate in this world we need a body.
“If you was honest you would say I don’t know if their life after death.”
I know there is life after death It is you who are dishonest and insist in upholding your dogma instead of accepting the facts. You are so dishonest that don’t even care to look into the mountain of evidence. You are not after truth. You are here to defend your failed materialistic dogma. That is dishonest. If you were honest you would not call yourself a skeptic when you are a dogmatic believer.
“I don’t know why consciousness needs brain,”
If you go scuba diving you need an oxygen capsule. But you don’t need it when you are out of the water. In this physical world we need a physical interface/vehicle. Our body is nothing but a tool that our spirit uses to operate here.
“I don’t know why murder is a crime if death doesn’t exist,”
Murder is a crime because it interferes with the growth of someone else and bring pain and suffering to his survivors. If you deliberately damage someone’s car you are liable. The fact that you did not hurt him personally is no excuse. You damaged his car, and cause a lot of anguish. That is a crime. We can cause pain but we can’t destroy a soul. We harm ourselves when we hurt others.
“I don’t why pain and suffering happens, I don’t know why the dead don’t communicate with the living. These would be honest answers which I could respect but instead of saying “I don’t know” what do you do? You make up absolute baloney out of thin air and claim things you cannot possibly know.”
I tell you what I know, I tell you when I guess and I tell you when I don’t know. This is to me the definition of honesty. The claim that the consciousness survives is a fact. If you had a grain of honesty you would search the truth for yourself. I did and I found it. This discovery does not make me an expert of all things spiritual. So I tell you what I don’t know.
“This site is public with comments enabled, this is how Internet works you post something and people respond. Just like if you started preaching in the street people will respond to you.”
And I welcome any response. But when you come here saying I lack common human decency for not saying what you want to hear, you are way over your limit. I welcome intelligent and animated discussions, but not adhominems and personal attacks. If you want to be rude when you feel defeated, I have no time for you. Make your point and let the readers make their minds.
“Common human decency requires that I speak the truth and try to let it be known. Lying to people and appealing to their emotions and ignorance is trying to control and manipulate people.”
You don’t agree with me. That is okay. I don’t expect everyone to have the IQ if Einstein. But calling me a liar just because you disagree is not only stupid it is very rude. People don’t have to agree with each other but that does not meant they are liars. I don’t think you are a liar. I just found out you are a rude and arrogant person. This I have evidence for.
“How on earth do you know this?”
I know this in the same way I know God exists and Jesus is the king in Heaven. I did not believe in any of these things. I learned them after reading the testimony of hundreds of people who died and returned. After it became clear that these people have not been hallucinating and their experiences are real, I have to take them for their words. This is something you are unwilling to do, because you are not a seeker. You are a dogmatic religionist. Your religion happens to be a godless one. If you were after the truth, you would spend some time reading the stories of NDE or even better watch the Youtube videos because by looking at these people you would know they are not making things up. But you have no interest in truth. You think you have it already, and hence why waste time. Isn’t this how every dogmatic person thinks?
J
@Alisina
“The brain is not the generator of consciousness. It is however a processor. It is a tool that our consciousness uses much like a browser. Just as the browser is not the Internet so the brain is not consciousness” So you are now saying consciousness doesn’t need the brain at all? Furthermore you believe in the concept of soul – which is immaterial and doesn’t need any physical tool or device with which to “process” consciousness.
“You come here on your own and I answer your question as much as I know and tell you when I don’t know the answer.” If you was honest you would say I don’t know if their life after death. I don’t know why consciousness needs brain, I don’t know why murder is a crime if death doesn’t exist, I don’t why pain and suffering happens, I don’t know why the dead don’t communicate with the living. These would be honest answers which I could respect but instead of saying “I don’t know” what do you do? You make up absolute baloney out of thin air and claim things you cannot possibly know.
“Did I send you an invitation?” This site is public with comments enabled, this is how Internet works you post something and people respond. Just like if you started preaching in the street people will respond to you.
“Doesn’t the basic human decency require you to take what you want and ignore what you don’t? Who told you you have the right to control other peoples thoughts and expression of them? ” Common human decency requires that I speak the truth and try to let it be known. Lying to people and appealing to their emotions and ignorance is trying to control and manipulate people.
“No you can’t eliminate a soul by murdering someone. But by murdering someone you impede your own spiritual growth. We grow only through love. Hate, violence and even rudeness impede our spiritual growth.” How on earth do you know this? You don’t know this so this is another case where you should say “I don’t know”. In fact from your view it could be argued the murderer has actually done a good thing – since he has just sent his victim to a eternal life of bliss.
Hindus believe that when one attains Moksha he enters into Param Dham or Soul World and never reincarnates again on the Earth. Here is the soul world ,described as Param Dham in Bhagawad gita Chapter 15.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98J9SzWfX0U
The brain is not the generator of consciousness. It is however a processor. It is a tool that our consciousness uses much like a browser. Just as the browser is not the Internet so the brain is not consciousness.
“I don’t know why” If you don’t know then you shouldn’t be trying to preach it to people – this is common human decency.”
Did I send you an invitation? You come here on your own and I answer your question as much as I know and tell you when I don’t know the answer. Doesn’t the basic human decency require you to take what you want and ignore what you don’t? Who told you you have the right to control other peoples thoughts and expression of them?
No you can’t eliminate a soul by murdering someone. But by murdering someone you impede your own spiritual growth. We grow only through love. Hate, violence and even rudeness impede our spiritual growth.
@Ali Sina
“The brain is necessary as long as we live in this body” Either the brain is necessary for consciousness or it’s not. If it’s not (which you believe) then it does not need the brain to exist and function.
“I don’t know why” If you don’t know then you shouldn’t be trying to preach it to people – this is common human decency.
“Death does not exist” if death doesn’t exist then murder wouldn’t be a problem.
“if the brain wasn’t necessary we could remove it and gain this higher level of consciousness (the brain also consumes a great deal of our energy).
The brain is necessary as long as we live in this body. I have to keep making example to explain spiritual truths. Let us say you are sitting in your car and you have no memory of ever being out of it. (A silly example but it makes the point.) Someone says once you get to your destination you won’t need a car. You can get out of it and run, jump, dance and even swim. Now since you have no memory of ever being out of your car you perish the thought and call that an irrational belief. “How would one move without an engine?” You argue. This body we have is the only thing we know. The memory of spiritual reality is wiped out. I don’t know why. But I assume it is so that we take this world seriously and play the game as if it were real. I remember in college when we played cards we always played over something real, like a little bit of money or paying the dinner, etc. Only then the game was fun. That is what I guess.
“Here is another question for you, if death doesn’t exist why do you think murder is a crime? Why you think Incest is bad for humanity if consciousness is immaterial and nothing to do with the physical state of the brain (since as you say in your article incest usually results in serious genetic disorders)? Why you condemn Muhammed if all he did to his victims was help them evolve spiritually eh? Don’t say you have no answer or consult what some believer in NDE says give a rational answer which comes from yourself.
Death does not exist. We come to this world of duality and challenges, to grow spiritually. This is the world of duality because here is good and evil. In heaven there is no evil, which means there is no resistance, no challenge. By overcoming the evil we grow spiritually. That is the whole point of this virtual game.
I know very little of the other world. The little that I understand tells me that God is actually more like a CEO and all beings are His workers. So he runs his business through us, all his creatures, both the ones with a body and those without it. Just as in any company that you have to prove your worth to climb the corporal ladder, we have to prove our worth to climb higher in God’s corporation. I apologize for my inadequate examples, but they make the point. This world is the lowest level. It is the entry level of God’s divine corporation. We humans are at the last stage in the level. We are like the low level workers. If we can prove ourselves, we will be promoted to higher levels of the company. There will be no more manual work. We will be doing executive works and will not need to come back. There is no such thing as punishment and reward the way Muhammad described it. You need to quire spiritual qualities to be promoted otherwise you keep coming back again and again. This is a world of suffering. I am sure I don’t have to convince anyone of that. So it makes sense to not come back again. I don’t know whether I will make it or not this time. I have done so many things that I now regret. But if God can overlook my past I really am trying my best to not come back again.
A man remembering his NDE said he had an accident when he was 2.5 years old. He had been jumping up and down on his parents’ bed that fell and injured his head. His mother rushed and tried to make the blood stop. He saw everything from above. He saw his mother frantically trying to stop the blood and his sister giving her mother some toilet paper saying, do you think these help? Then he was transported through a tunnel where he met Jesus who showed him around. He remembered everything including the golden and transparent pavement. He saw a river so crystalline that he immersed his hands in it to drink, but the water went through him and did not even wet his hands. It is a longs experience. He saw a man who had also come to heaven but was not going to stay there as he was about to be promoted to higher levels. Everyone, including this child congratulated him and the man was very happy that he had made it.
Now this is a child. I don’t remember anything before the age of four and vaguely after that. Near death experiencers remember everything and the memory becomes stronger as time passes. This tale parallels many others about people moving on to higher level and not coming back to this world again.
As for hell, it seems to be real too, but people seem to choose it. Maybe it is a place of repentance. Even though time in an immaterial world has no meaning, events have a sequence. No one will remain in hell forever. They eventually come back to the physical world to try again.
? @Ali Sina
1)Why the dead (who according to you have super levels of consciousness) have not contacted us? They have had long enough to work out how to do it. If someone who is just “near death” can hear conversions in others rooms then those people who have been dead for years should have no problem in contacting us.
“all these people, ” You mean say the 1% (out of those who already believe in such things) who are “mad” enough to claim such nonsense? Even you haven’t yet claimed to have been contacted by the dead.
” There are countless stories of verified reports of extrasensory perception of near death experiencers” Their is none as I say if such abilities as ESP existed we would all have it and use it all the time (indeed we wouldn’t have to bother with the technology we are using now for example). The fact that people have to go to great lengths to show even the slightest hint that such abilities exist says to me that they don’t exist.
“Millions of people wake up from their deathbed, some recovering quite miraculously, (see the story of Anita Murjani) and tell us the same story” No one wakes up from death, you clearly have no clue as to what the medical definition of death is. Read this to inform yourself http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/brain-death/Pages/Introduction.aspx here is the definition “Brain stem death is where a person no longer has any activity in their brain stem, and has permanently lost the potential for consciousness and the capacity to breathe.This may happen even when a ventilator is keeping the person’s heart beating and oxygen is circulating through their blood.A person is confirmed as being dead when their brain stem function is permanently lost.”
“The reason there is no communication between us and our dead relatives is because the goggle is limiting our vision only to this world” The dead share consciousness with us (according to your belief) so they are still part of “this world” (the world of the living/conscious) so their should be no reason as to why the dead don’t or cannot communicate with us. You are only using your imagination to imagine that consciousness survives death and then imagine reasons why the dead can’t or wouldn’t want to communicate with us.
.” Show me the facts and I will follow you. Can you do that? ” I have shown you facts and provided reasons. If you are rational person you will be able to see it.
“What matters are the skills we learned” I wonder what kind of skills the likes of Joseph Fritzl learned by hiding his daughter in a secret room so he could rape her for 24 years learned and who rapes resulted in him fathering several incestuous children with her. Try and tell this poor women and the children that this was just a game from God which doesn’t matter. I don’t think you would – if you have any humanity in you.
“In reality if what you believed was true it would be obvious to everyone. The dead would be communicating with us.”
It is obvious to everyone who looks into the matter. Let me make an example. Suppose we live in a village at the skit of a tall mountain and all around us is desert. We have been living there for generations and no one has been able to climb that mountain. Then someone invents a devise that makes climbing easier. So some people go over the top and they see behind that mountain there is a forest. He then comes back and reports it. But that sound implausible, so we dismiss him as attention seeker. Then another person climbs and comes back reporting the same thing. We dismiss him too as crackpot. More people climb and those who make it to the very top report having seen a forest. Can we continue ridiculing and dismissing all these people, accusing them of lying, having ulterior agenda and being mad? If we think we can continue this game then it is we who would be the irrational and even stupid. As Sherlock Holms said, “If you eliminate all other possibilities whatever remains must be the truth, however improbable.” There are countless stories of verified reports of extrasensory perception of near death experiencers. This proves materialism is a fallacy.
Millions of people wake up from their deathbed, some recovering quite miraculously, (see the story of Anita Murjani) and tell us the same story. It is not rational to keep denying all that. Skepticism is a positive trait, but when one keeps rejecting all evidence with silly excuses and irrational arguments that is no longer skepticism but obstinate dogmatism. Skeptic is one who can question his own beliefs; otherwise everybody can question other people’s beliefs. Materialists are not skeptic any more than Muslims are. Both these groups are capable of questioning every other belief but never their own. I am a skeptic and I have proven it to myself and the world. I can change my world view at a drop of a hat, when evidence is provided. I don’t keep defending a failed paradigm. I don’t have any dogma. Show me the facts and I will follow you. Can you do that? If not, don’t call yourself a skeptic. You are a believer. You will argue against facts but will not change your world view. But don’t worry. Most humans are like that you. In fact more than 99% or maybe even 99.99% of the people are like that. True skeptics are rare.
The reason there is no apparent communication between us and those who have passed away to the other world has to do with the nature of this reality. This material world is like a virtual reality. To play it you have to wear a goggle that blinds you to the world around you. You are then immersed in this virtual world and it becomes your only reality. When the game is over we remove this goggle and suddenly remember we are home. This world is only a game. In this world we play the role of king or pauper, intellectual or stupid, powerful or weak, famous or nobody. When the game is over, none of that matter anymore. What matters are the skills we learned. The reason there is no communication between us and our dead relatives is because the goggle is limiting our vision only to this world.
“and also you said ‘Believers fabricate myths. They do it with utmost sincerity. They lie with clear conscience out of faith. The testimony of believers is not valid because their objectivity is questionable….” As one who is not convinced about divinity, spirits, heaven, hell, etc. in the present scenario of human knowledge, I fail to comprehend your recent leanings.
Yes I said that and that is a fact. How does that apply to near death experiencers? Many of them were atheist, or believed in a variety of religions with very different beliefs about God and afterlife. Why should atheist see Jesus? Howard Storm says he was so ashamed that he asked Jesus who had saved him from his tormentors to return him back, to the same dark pit. He said he only times in his life he used the name Jesus Christ was in the form of curse and now it was Jesus Christ who had come to save him. Storm had no belief about God of afterlife.
The argument that all these millions of people are lying is so lame that is seldom used by even the hard core materialists. As I showed in my previous response the odds are so small that it cannot be taken seriously. So the only argument left is that of the oxygen deprived brain, which is utterly absurd but even if true, it does not explain the experiences that can be verified by others.
“If you really converse with Jesus (god?), can you recall the topics and contents of those conversations?”
Yes of course I converse with God. The conversation is somewhat different from how we humans communicate among each other. I start by thanking Him for everything He has given me, my health, my family, the good people whom I had the luck to meet in this life, etc. Then I pray for the Earth and all its inhabitants, yes animals too. I pray for peace in the world, for the end of Islam and name a few people who are in jail now, whose lives are in danger. I also ask things. The three things at the top of my list are 1- understanding, 2- the power of communication (so I can convey my new understanding to others) and 3- sanctification. This third one depends very much on me. I am the one responsible for my thoughts. But it does not hurt to ask for help.
Does God ever reply? Of course He does – all the time. But to hear Him you have to listen. You won’t hear voice. You receive a confirmation in your heart, a sense of peace. That is how God replies while we are still in our physical body. When we are in the spirit world, we will be like God. So the communication will be more direct, even though not verbal.
Next, I give thanks again completely convinced that God has heard me and has replied. I will not allow doubt to take that away. It is done. I get up and rejoice. This is how I converse with God.
During these years I received many emails from people, generally Christians, who said they pray for me. I thanked them and chuckled to myself saying they are wasting their time. I rather converse with a chair, at least the chair has a physical reality. Now I pray for these people too. I know their prayers saved me. I was not after God. He was the last thing I cared to know about. If I came to know God, it must be thanks to all those who prayed for me. So I pray for them now.
None of this makes sense to materialist. To them God is an imaginary friend. We experience reality with our conscious mind and create it with our sub-conscious mind. Everything is consciousness. Materialism died in the early 20th century with Bohr experiments and his discovery of quantum physics. He said, everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. By everything he meant material things. But consciousness is real. It is consciousness that gives birth to all things. Just as you deny that there is anything but matter, I say there is nothing but consciousness. The difference between us is that I am right, not because I say so, but because it is so. As Einstein said, reality is only an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
@Ali Sina
“What is the likelihood that this person concocted the whole story? You have to consider what will be her gain?” This is fallacious reasoning, first people CAN lie, their is nothing impossible or implausible about that. Reason says take the most probable and simplest explanation. Christians for instance use this reasoning about the resurrection of Jesus they ask the skeptics how likely is it the disciples made up this story? Why would they do that? I personally can’t think of any other possible explanation therefore Jesus must have rose from the dead. Secondly insane deluded people actually BELIEVE in the lies that’s why they say them – even if it harms them (consider the early Christians who were fed to the lions).
“Then we have the doctors and nurses also testify to the accuracy of that patient’s claim” What if the doctors are believers? If they are then the chances 100% they will back a fellow believer.
” So if one doctor corroborates that claim the chance of this whole story being a scam is one in 100. If two doctors confirm it, the chance is reduced to one in 1000. If a nurse also says the same thing, the chance of the whole thing being a concoction is less than one in 10,000.” Well in practice it’s very easy to prove that consciousness can exist and function perfectly normally without the brain. All you would have to is take the brain out of the skull. funnily enough though none of the believers in immaterial consciousness and life after death have ever tried to prove their belief though this very easy experiment. I will leave it to your imagination as to why they have never attempted it.
“Now imagine that there are millions of people, some children, some atheists, some Hindus, etc. who report similar stories. What is the chance of all of them lying? ” Many people (from all kinds of backgrounds) have such experience this isn’t evidence however that the experience is happening outside the brain. Also I have heard atheists who have had these but didn’t think they was happening outside their brain, but think the feelings of peace, seeing family members etc is the beginning of the death process. One guy said he felt if he went on and died this would have taken all the pain away (as he says their is something very painless about unconsciousness).
“Add to that the fact that virtually all these “liars” undergo a dramatic transformation. ” Again not evidence that consciousness exists independent of brain. People are transformed by religious conversions, Mediation, near death, and even experiences with mind altering drugs. This tells us these transformations have nothing to do with any religious or spiritual dogma.
“There are millions of such claims and many of them are made by a large number or people who happen to see the same thing” None of them is proven, still aliens are a lot more plausible than after death experiences.
“The argument that just because you don’t see something therefore is does not exist is silly” If their is no evidence for things which if they did exist their existence would be obvious to everybody (not just a few conspiracy theorist or new agers) is good reason to say that it doesn’t exist.
“If a large number of people claim to have seen it, then there must be something to the story” It’s evidence of human foolishness and gullibility that’s all, remember 20% of the world population believe Muhammed is a messenger of God.
Ps I notice you did not try to answer my questions at the end of my last comment.
Yes humans lie, but let us put this in perspective. Let us say I write a one digit number down without showing it to you and tell you guess it. You can just guess it out of the blue and be right. Your chance of being correct is one in ten. What if I write two digit? Your chance of being right is one in 100. If the number has three digit, your chance of bring right is reduced to one in 1000. For every new digit that I add, the probability that you could pick the right number out of blue is reduced tenfold.
Let us say someone reports she went out of her body and while unconscious with her eyes covered and ears plugged she saw the doctors operating on her and reported accurately what they did and said. She then moved out of the operation room and saw an object on the roof of the hospital that generally does not belong there. What is the likelihood that this person concocted the whole story? You have to consider what will be her gain? Our society looks at her as being crazy. Things are gradually changing but a few decades ago many people never spoke of their experience openly because they would have been attacked and ridiculed. Remember that the world is still ruled but the materialists who, as I found out, are vicious and extremely fanatical folk. Since there is nothing to gain with that kind of story except ridicule, I say the chance of someone, especially one removing from death is pretty slim. In reality, it is less than one in a million. But let us say it is one in ten. Then we have the doctors and nurses also testify to the accuracy of that patient’s claim. Now these people are not under any oxygen deprivation. They literally put their career at stake by confirming the claim of their patient. What is the chance of them taking part in their patient’s scam? In reality, it is less than one in million, but let us agree that 10% of doctors are pathological liars. So if one doctor corroborates that claim the chance of this whole story being a scam is one in 100. If two doctors confirm it, the chance is reduced to one in 1000. If a nurse also says the same thing, the chance of the whole thing being a concoction is less than one in 10,000.
Now imagine that there are millions of people, some children, some atheists, some Hindus, etc. who report similar stories. What is the chance of all of them lying? The probability of that is reduced so low that clinging to that theory is sheer lunacy.
Add to that the fact that virtually all these “liars” undergo a dramatic transformation. They often quit their jobs and engage in activities that are not financially profitable but involve service to others. What is the chance of pathological liars wanting to do that?
You ask whether we should also believe in aliens because some people claim to have seen them. Of course we should. There are millions of such claims and many of them are made by a large number of people who happen to see the same thing. We don’t know who these alien are and where they come from. Are they coming from other planets or other dimension or maybe other universes? We know so little of the world and how it is made up. Science is constantly advancing and proving that what we took as fact yesterday is no longer true. The argument that just because you don’t see something therefore is does not exist is silly. If a large number of people claim to have seen it, then there must be something to the story. The only argument materialists use is appeal to ridicule and with that they have been successful in convincing the masses of unintelligent folk who ironically consider themselves rationalists. But we all know that appeal to ridicule is a logical fallacy. It is however, effective on ignorant masses.
@Ali Sina
“As I stated in The Faithfulness of the Skeptics, observation is the ultimate authority to determining truth. Science and reasoning are based on observation and when new observation contradict science and reasoning, we must immediately revise both and adjust them to match our observation or they become pseudoscience and irrationality instantly.” Where are you getting this information from reasoning or observation?
“Is NDE real? Yes it is and all you need to be convinced is to read to stories of near death experiencers. Then you will come to see the argument that these experiences happen in the brain is silly. You can’t hallucinate things that are then proven correct in the real life. There are hundreds of such stories. Here is one I read last night.” If personal testimony is good enough evidence for you then why you don’t accept that people are abducted by aliens or why you don’t accept Jesus rose from the dead or Muhammed went to heaven on a flying horse
“I want you to explain rationally, how this woman could meet her son when he had died half a world away. How could she meet that baby even before he was born? Is the baby her son? That we don’t know, but there are some parts to this story that cannot be explained in any other way than to accept that consciousness survive death of body. ” Answer this rationally can human beings lie? Will believers make up- unfalsifiable – stories to try to convince others of their delusions and insane ideas? Of course they will – look at all the religions, the new age crazes and conspiracy theories if you want proof of that.
“Now, why should we reject all these stories? Is it because they are irrational? Not at all! Reason depends on known facts. When facts change, so does reason. The only reason these stories are rejected is because they go against materialism. Materialism is a dogma, and it is a lot more fanatical and close minded than any other dogma.” They are unfalsifiable, untestable and depend on confirmation bias in other words they are pseudo science.
“The difference between you and I is that I am after the truth and ready to throw away everything that I believe, if facts prove them wrong. You on the other hand cling to your dogma, will close your eyes to facts and refuse to budge because to you the dogma is more important than truth” When all the oxygen is gone and their is no activity in the brain whatsoever then consciousness is gone this is what observation and reason tells us. Everything dies consciousness is no exception.
“Do you really believe this statement of your is rational? How did you come to determine that NDE is subjective? The reason we can never agree is that you refuse to see the evidence. The evidence is overwhelming and undeniable. I invite anyone who is after the truth to search NDE stories and read them. Don’t content yourself reading a few. It is easy to dismiss one or two stories as coincidence, but when you have hundreds, you can no longer honestly do that any more” In reality if what you believed was true it would be obvious to everyone. the dead would be communicating with us. if the brain wasn’t necessary we could remove it and gain this higher level of consciousness (the brain also consumes a great deal of our energy). Here is another question for you, if death doesn’t exist why do you think murder is a crime? Why you think Incest is bad for humanity if consciousness is immaterial and nothing to do with the physical state of the brain (since as you say in your article incest usually results in serious genetic disorders)? Why you condemn Muhammed if all he did to his victims was help them evolve spiritually eh? Don’t say you have no answer or consult what some believer in NDE says give a rational answer which comes from yourself.
“But now, how come, you are found captivated by NDE of all, which is nothing but subjective first person improvisations of some (particularly) Christian ‘believers’, who seem to have been inflicted by psychotic conditions (TLE syndrome?),”
Do you really believe this statement of your is rational? How did you come to determine that NDE is subjective? The reason we can never agree is that you refuse to see the evidence. The evidence is overwhelming and undeniable. I invite anyone who is after the truth to search NDE stories and read them. Don’t content yourself reading a few. It is easy to dismiss one or two stories as coincidence, but when you have hundreds, you can no longer honestly do that any more.
It is not rational to believe in materialism anymore. Facts prove that there is a spiritual dimension that is not visible to us and there is nothing illogical about it either. Maybe this little cartoon animation can help dispel some confusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5yxZ5I-zsE
As I stated in The Faithfulness of the Skeptics, observation is the ultimate authority to determining truth. Science and reasoning are based on observation and when new observation contradict science and reasoning, we must immediately revise both and adjust them to match our observation or they become pseudoscience and irrationality instantly.
This whole argument whether God exists or not, hinges on the testimonies of near death experiencers. There are also others who apparently travel out of their body, like Hindu yogis, but let that argument aside for now. All that matters at this moment is whether the experiences of those who die or are close to death is the product of their imagination or is it real. There is no point to talk about anything else until this matter is decided one way or another.
If these experiences are hallucination of a dying mind then you have a point and everything we say about God, afterlife, spirit, etc., is hocus-pocus. If however, these experiences are not the product of imagination then the existence of an immaterial world is established and denying that is nothing but fanaticism.
Remember that all truths have been opposed by the establishment. Today the materialists are the establishment. They are the one who control the academia and the media. A few centuries ago it was the Catholic Church that had that power. Yet, despite the stubbornness of establishments truth always wins.
Is NDE real? Yes it is and all you need to be convinced is to read to stories of near death experiencers. Then you will come to see the argument that these experiences happen in the brain is silly. You can’t hallucinate things that are then proven correct in the real life. There are hundreds of such stories. Here is one I read last night.
A soldier explains that while in Vietnam, his buddy was shot. Everything in him said that he should run to save his life, but he didn’t. He ran back to help but was gunned down too. He then said he got out of his body and so did his friend. Both of them stood there discussing what had happened while observing their bodies from above. After a while other soldiers came in inspected the body of his friend and left him focusing their attention on him exclusively. His friend then said, I think I will not be going back in that body again, but you will. I just ask you that when your baby is born call him Peter, after me. He then said, I am now going to see my mother to say goodbye and disappeared.
This person who narrated the above story said, he was taken to the hospital and could not attend the funeral of his friend. He was flown back home and two months later his son was born whom he called Peter. He then found the mother of his friend to tell her about what he had experience. She said, she knew everything because in the exact time that her son Peter was reported killed, he came to visit her. He said good bye and brought with himself a little boy saying mom, I want you to love this boy as you loved me. He is your son. Peter’s mother said she wanted to find that boy. She thought his son Peter had an illegitimate son that he had not told her and was desperate to find him. The surviving soldier then told her about his own new born son whom he had called Peter and showed her his picture. The woman recognized the child saying this is the very baby her son had shown her. She was accepted as the grandmother of the little peter. She died 34 years later, with Peter at her deathbed.
I want you to explain rationally, how this woman could meet her son when he had died half a world away. How could she meet that baby even before he was born? Is the baby her son? That we don’t know, but there are some parts to this story that cannot be explained in any other way than to accept that consciousness survive death of body.
Now, why should we reject all these stories? Is it because they are irrational? Not at all! Reason depends on known facts. When facts change, so does reason. The only reason these stories are rejected is because they go against materialism. Materialism is a dogma, and it is a lot more fanatical and close minded than any other dogma.
The difference between you and I is that I am after the truth and ready to throw away everything that I believe, if facts prove them wrong. You on the other hand cling to your dogma, will close your eyes to facts and refuse to budge because to you the dogma is more important than truth.
All these years I looked at you with awe as a rationalist with a strong scientific world view and objectivity, rooted in sound logic and reasoning. Your brilliant endeavor exposing a pseudo-‘religion’ is highly commendable. But now, how come, you are found captivated by NDE of all, which is nothing but subjective first person improvisations of some (particularly) Christian ‘believers’, who seem to have been inflicted by psychotic conditions (TLE syndrome?), which have the tendency to spread fast infectiously (meme?) among the pre-disposed believers? Even you go to the extent of claiming (elsewhere) that you converse with Jesus, and he is alive. But earlier, you had dismissed the story of Bill Wiese (and of course, Mohammed’s ascension to heaven on a steed and having a chat with the god – but alas god could not pull him up bodily when he actually died,) and also you said ‘Believers fabricate myths. They do it with utmost sincerity. They lie with clear conscience out of faith. The testimony of believers is not valid because their objectivity is questionable….” As one who is not convinced about divinity, spirits, heaven, hell, etc. in the present scenario of human knowledge, I fail to comprehend your recent leanings. If you really converse with Jesus (god?), can you recall the topics and contents of those conversations? If at all an entity called god exists, I can’t accept that it is endowed with sense organs (hence by inference necessarily brain, neural system and the whole lot of physiological attributes including gender –as we humans do). It should be emotion-neutral ‘being’ with no special commitment to humans. What do humans gain and/or do substantially, when they enter heaven? Hell is stocked with fire/boiling oil only, no lasers, X & Gamma rays? Do myriad organisms including plants, fungi, microbes, etc. have place in the heaven? Do they sin – are to be punished/rewarded for their deeds? What purpose does such translocation serve, after all? Isn’t all this the silly product of fantasizing human mind? I don’t think one needs religion, spirituality, prayers, etc. to be a good human being. And, what after all is a prayer substantially, other than showering praises and/or asking for favors ?
Further, you have come to ascribing ‘spirits’ to inanimate things, so much so that you see life in particles, atoms, molecules and so on. I am at loss to grasp this as a well-defined concept, and its substance. (It seems your mind is straying into a state of ‘auto-suggestion’ we humans are prone to). As is well known, living beings are endowed with the unique property to reproduce and propagate (and biologically evolve), unlike in inanimate physical world. Mega-molecules do not come together (physically/chemically) just to form proteins directly, as it happens in ‘atom to molecules/molecule to polymer’ cases. In nature proteins get synthesized only biologically. In fact, origin of life was a very long drawn and complex (and must be one time) activity eventually leading to the formation of DNA(and RNA) with the extraordinary dual property of 1) Replication and 2) Transcription/translation – the latter leading to the synthesis of proteins to be the structural and functional basis of the living world. Challengingly, since DNA to form/function requires enzymes [proteins], and proteins to form in turn need DNA, a major daunting question “How the ‘DNA-Protein-DNA’ brew (since one needs the other to come into being) might have initially emerged at all, when life dawned on this planet”, is still open to the scientists.
BTW have you visited the website skeptic.com?
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/3-year-old-remembers-past-life-identifies-killer-location-of-body/1/362676.html
This require another article. I will write one hopefully in new future.
Ali,
You are totally wrong in almost everything, you are in spiritual level. But in physical level, we make wars and the weaker perish, so that the more beautiful, better, smarter species emerge from the residual.
We can see that from racism, casteism, diacrimination, etc. It all converges into competition to be better than the rest.
Dear Ali,
I am really thankful to you a lot for replying and writing an article for my posed questions. Please don’t misunderstand me that I am a Muslim in disguise or a fanatic and reluctant atheist. I am just a seeker of truth, truly. I respect you, love you and trust you. But I am afraid that your offered answers could not make it to convince me as ever. Don’t think that I am trying to debate with you just for the sake of doing it or I am filibustering. Whatever new you wrote are like coming from a typical believer and the rest are something you already said in the name of the Nature when you were an agnostic but now you are referring the same as God. You said that if there is no suffering, how we can know joy.
You missed to answer my these questions:
Why did god start such a game of spiritual growth in the first place or what caused that we are away from the purest form of consciousness? Wasn’t god perfect and satisfied in the beginning that He spread out His own part into unspiritual state?
You tried to evade many allegations on God by just limiting His power, by limiting our understanding of Him and by making us responsible for every of our choices in this life.
You wrote, “We are free to turn towards God and become filled with His light.”
“Our understanding of God and what He can do is very limited…….We don’t understand the mysteries of the spiritual world…….”
“The common misconception is that God can do anything.”
“We are fractals of God. We come to this world so that we can experience our existence and through His creation…….”
So, that means Hitler and Muhammad chose to be so before the birth in the spiritual world. If Muhammad is also the part of God, then why did he do such atrocities and lecherous deeds, throughout his life? If God loves unconditionally, then He must love people like Hitler and Muhammad too. If He does, then that is injustice to sincere and noble people. If you love everyone and everything you lose your natural powers of selection and wind up being a pretty poor judge of character and quality. If you try to love everyone, you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love.
You wrote in your latest article that, “Once we leave this physical world, all the mysteries will vanish.”
If all the souls came into this to have certain experience of his own choice deliberately, then question arises that Do some souls like that of murderer, genocide, Satanist, torturer come to this world to experience that instead of experiencing love, compassion, sacrifice, caring, chastity, confidence, courage, courtesy,…..? Did the soul of Muhammad choose to come to practice such cruelty for his own spiritual growth? What some souls gain spiritually when their bodies die in infancy/in early age? Do some souls come to experience so much pain that they ultimately decide to quit and suicide?
“The difference between God and us is in size. Essentially, we are the same. The difference between a drop of water and the Ocean is in size. Just like all water in the earth come from the ocean and return to it, so do all spirits come from God and return to Him.”
You wrote in the article: “Your question is the same as a child saying why should he go to school and effort himself to learn.”
There lies a fallacy. There is a difference between creating and procreating. God do not procreate us but create us. He could have created us in such a way that we don’t need any kind of growth, let alone by suffering. If I am Ocean, and my child a drop from it, then he would not suffer like hell to become me (Ocean) or to come closer to me. Even if that has to be, then I would not give birth to the child, if I love him sincerely. We procreate because we need support and love in our life; what God needed that He created the game of suffering and growing. Why did God need that in the first place? Why did god start such a game of spiritual growth in the first place or what caused that we are away from the purest form of consciousness? Wasn’t god perfect and satisfied in the beginning that He spread out His own part into unspiritual state?
“There can’t be growth without resistance.”
Who says that there can’t be growth without resistance? When we grow physically what resistance we go through? Are the laws of physical growth and that of spiritual one different? Leaves of trees naturally move towards it life source, without any pain and suffering; then why do we need to suffer so much to return towards our source of life, our own reservoir of consciousness.
If we, human beings have souls, then questions arise; do dogs have souls? Lizards, Flies? Do they too have souls? If you say ‘yes’, then do bacteria have souls? If you still say ‘yes’, I would ask what about viruses? Viruses are the link between living and non-living things. Plants also die, do they have souls too?
Please try to discuss all the questions and phrases I posed. If not possible in one article, then take your time discuss in another one, so that people like us get enlightened. That would be considered a noble service to me.
Best regards,
Abid Ali
Hindus believe that the universe is manifestation of God and therefore everything-living and non living things are pervaded by God. Air, water,fire etc. are conscious and they possess intelligence and emotions. Read below -how water molecule reacts to positive and negative thoughts. This also proves the law of Karma- One attracts the same kind of energy which he emits.
http://www.soul-awakening.com/philosophy/law-of-manifestation.htm
Um… as you seem to know what you are on about. Sina will avoid answering.
Ha, ha, ha… much better that you are out harms way with this sort of nonsense.
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“As for Buddha, yes he attained perhaps the highest form of spiritual evolution possible for a man. As for Jesus, it is my understanding that He was created perfect from the start.”
Unless Buddha followers started to pay court and patronized you then Buddha will be “perfect”.
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Have you actually gotten anything out of them yet or not? Considering the “movie” never did emerge.
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What we are witnessing is the pathetic demise of you… for a while you had a go. Personally, I blame it on that pathetic book!
Bit late to retract that rubbish… isn’t it?
Astrologically,we are in Aquarian age .please search the internet about it.Aquarius is full of ideas,inventions ,discoveries.After Aquarius comes Pisces which is a sign of spirituality and maturity .Pisces will appear this millennium only
The fourth cycle of Time- Kali Yug.
http://metaphysicalmusing.com/articles/early_articles/kali.htm
“Darwin was not wrong. His description of evolution was correct. But he did not see the spiritual force behind it.” So Darwin got it all wrong then evolution doesn’t happen by natural selection acting on variation in the population, no it happens according to you because of a “spiritual force”
“This spiritual force explains why despite entropy evolution is incremental. Why organisms are growing more complex instead of more disorderly.” Darwin’s theory explains this by genetic mutations, mutations provide genetic variation and those variations which give greater reproductive success to the organism (and chance ensures that beneficial mutations will be inevitable) are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. When the environment changes, or when organisms move to a different environment, different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Harmful mutations usually die out quickly, so they don’t interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating. This is how evolution happens in reality and also explains how organisms become more complex.
“There will be no need for doctors, because there will be no diseases. All diseases will be removed from human genome.” Why you want to do that I thought you believe suffering helps us to grow spiritually? (This is also the excuse you give as to why God never helps humanity).
“Conflicts will not be resolved through courts or wars, but through prayers. ” Prayer does nothing that’s we have laws, courts ,hospitals, prisons, schools, charities and so on because we have to do those things ourselves a God has never helped us in any way or answered any prayer.
“We will be able to remain in touch with our deceased loved ones” The dead should have worked out how to contact us by now – they have had long enough – since after you die you get all these these magical powers, contacting their loved ones on earth should be no problem. All the dead should get a vote in elections to.
The third cycle of Time- Dwapar Yug
http://metaphysicalmusing.com/articles/early_articles/dvapara.htm
The second cycle of time Treta Yug
http://metaphysicalmusing.com/articles/early_articles/treta.htm
Change is inevitable. Shift in thinking has already taken place. We are going to witness the dawn of new era.
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/04/11/vedanta-science-self-discovery/
The First Cycle of Time: SATYA or KRITA YUGA, the Golden Age
The first cycle is called THE AGE OF WISDOM, the Golden Age or in Sanskrit, the SATYA or KRITA YUGA.
Pressed by Desire, the Creator emits the Illusion of Separation and Multiplicity. On one level these emissions are abstract metaphysical principles, cosmic stations containing the spectrum of all frequencies, all possible waveforms. While on another level of perception, they become temporal creator entities as beings and we are all latent within these primordial beings.
As they emerge from the Oneness, so we emerge within them. As they are the Oneness, so are we. TAT TWAM ASI – That thou art! There is no hierarchy as yet and these beings are all equal. They begin to manifest the desired forms of multiplicity in order to play in this universe.
They KNOW who and what they are – meaning they have the conscious knowledge that they are a projected part of Oneness. The Veil of Forgetting has not yet fallen.
***
The LINGA Purana (Part I, Chapter 39) says that in the Golden Age there is no need for any basic social system and only as time decays, does the need for such a system arise. Time is of a degenerative nature and as time further decays through the cycles, it is no longer possible even to maintain such a sustaining social system. By the time of the Kali Yuga, DHARMA is nearly vanquished.
The Golden Age is the age of goodness. Meditation is the main activity. Beings who are still full connected to Source spend their time in meditation simply for the ecstatic bliss of doing so, or to enjoy creating for their own pleasure temporal illusory multiplicity in the hologram. Perhaps they create other worlds and travel through time and space to visit them – as people do today when they have out of body experiences, OBEs.
Our lifespan in the Golden Age is about 4,000 human years. Each Yuga is successively shorter in duration as is human life span. The way we experience time literally increases in speed as the cycles proceed.
In this golden SATYA Age people are born in pairs and their livelihood consists in reveling in the taste of what exists right before their eyes. All creatures are satisfied, always, and take delight in all enjoyments. There is no distinction between the lowest and the highest – all are good, all equal in their life span, happiness, and form. [Linga Purana, Part I Ch. 39]
People go wherever they wish, constantly rejoicing in their minds. They do not engage in any actions, good or bad. There is no system of separate classes and stages of life. They have no preferences, nor do they experience the opposing pairs of emotions. They do not hate or get tired. They have no homes or dwelling places, but live in the mountains and oceans. They have no sorrow, but consist mostly of goodness and generally live alone. [Linga Purana, Part I Ch. 39]
The VAYU Purana says that in this Golden Age, people have equal forms, features, and longevity. Their bodies themselves are probably not solid as ours are. People are highly powerful, very strong and perpetually delighted in their mind. They experience neither gain nor loss, have neither friends nor foes, neither likes nor dislikes. Everyone still knows that they are the Oneness and the emission of that.
There is no death, no human labor, no buying and selling. In this first Age we manifest freely. Whatever takes form within the mind appears.
Interestingly it also says that objects function according to their minds – implying that their thoughts are creating the external reality which can be thus be altered whenever and however they like. This seems to me to be a better, more subtle version of the Star-Trek Replicator.
The Vedas do not as yet exist – except perhaps in the ethers of the eternal indestructible AKSHARA – as there is no need for them.
Time is equivalent to virtue!
This SATYA Yuga is also called the eon of the Winning Throw. In the Puranic texts, creation is often compared to a cosmic game of dice.
The hierarchies of gods and other beings have not yet come into existence. We all know and remember who we are-but we will soon become attached to our creation.and begin to feel sense of loss and longing for our original state.
You are right. We are heading from Kali Yug to new Sat Yug ( the age of Sanatan Dharma).
Duration of Time as a Function of Consciousness & The Four Cycles
The 4 Ages are:
1. The Krita Yuga, a Golden Age
2. The Treta Yuga, the Age of Ritual
3. Dvapara Yuga, the Age of Doubt: Man loses the sense of the
divine reality of the world and grows away from natural
law
4. The Kali Yuga, the Age of Conflict and confusion began in
3012 BC and will end with the nearly total devastation of
the present humanity
When you study the Hindu theory of the Cycles of Time and the yugas, you will find a confusing divergence of opinion concerning the dates of their duration. Considering that we are now living in the Age of Confusion, the Kali Yuga, it is not surprising to find so much disagreement on these matters.
What is more important to me than precise numbers is the fact that we are living in an era where there is almost no memory of the previous cycles of time. Most of us wrongly believe that civilization begins with written history where as writing is actually the symptom of a degenerative culture – because it is sound that communicates meaning, not the markings that seek to represent it.
Reach beyond the limited frequencies of this Veil of Illusion you have been confined within all of your life. The experience of expanding and projecting your thoughts, consciousness and imagination back into primordial time is in itself liberating, revealing and uplifting.
The realization that time is in fact a function of consciousness will alter your perception of reality. We all experience time relative to our own specific consciousness. You can verify this for yourself by simply reflecting on, for example, how time flies when you are happy – as opposed how time drags when you are stuck in traffic or at the dentist.
Another example would be to consider the consciousness of an ambitious type-A personality, the would-be-executive who runs around non-stop day after day, balancing a bazillion enterprises in order to gain money, prestige and power, keeping busy-busy-busy to avoid any possible solitude or contemplation.
Compare that with the consciousness of a Tai Chi Master who moves so slowly as to defy nature and yet can knockout his opponent from across the room, or an ascetic hermit yogi who never moves, never goes anywhere or does anything, but by remaining at the center of his being becomes One with the Universe.
Time does not exist outside the temporal illusory hologram.
All increments, meaning measurements of time and space, are relative to the consciousness of the perceiver and thus the product of variations in waveform frequencies, based on and the result of the specific degree of the illusion of Separation from Oneness.
This is similar to the quantum physics theory, The Copenhagen interpretation, Part II: Reality is created by observation. Or you might say more accurately, reality is created by the consciousness of the observer.
In ‘While the Gods Play’, the French scholar Alain Danielou explains that the length of a moment is established by the rhythms of consciousness that perceive it:
It is energy, by producing vibratory waves having direction and length, that will give birth to the rhythms whose perceptions will create the dimension of time, the measure of space, and at the same time the structures of matter.
For man, the perception of the dimension of time is determined by his vital rhythms, his heartbeat…
The duration of each of the four yugas is relative to each other as 4:3:2:1. This implies that the Golden Age is the longest and our current Kali Age is the shortest. My understanding is that time actually continues to speed up in the Twilight of the Kali Yuga and increases ever more so, as we reach the end. The cycles of time are rather like classical Indian Ragas that begin slowly, serene, increase in tempo and passion, and end in a frenzy of energy.
Alain Danielou’s dates differ from others, but somewhat agree with the Mayan Calendar and the Hopi predictions. Danielou says that the Kali Yuga began in 3,606 BC and most scholars also do agree with this date. However he gives the duration of the Kali as 6,048.72 years.
Danielou says that the Twilight of the Kali Yuga began in 1939 with the discovery of atomic fission. According to him, the final catastrophe will take place during this twilight and the last traces of this present mankind will have disappeared in 2442. This doesn’t necessarily imply that we have an extra 400 years to fool around in. God only knows what earth changes will be taking place on this planet during that time.
J. Robert Oppenheimer’s name is synonymous with the atomic bomb. His favorite quotation from the Bhagavad Gita was Krishna telling Arjuna:
I am Time grown old to destroy the world.
Embarked on the course of world annihilation…
***
In Hindu metaphysics time is cyclical and each period of manifestation is called a KALPA of Brahma, equivalent to 4.32 billion human years.
The KALPA is subdivided into 14 MANVANTARAS.
We are now in the seventh MANVANTARA of this KALPA.
Each MANVANTARA is divided into 71 MAHA-YUGAS of 4,320,000 years each.
We are in the 28th MAHA-YUGA of this MANVANTARA.
Each MAHA-YUGA is made up of four yugas
Each Yuga is preceded by a period of a dawn and followed by a period of twilight. [Linga Purana 1.4.3-6]
@Shanlar,
Super consciousness is the consciousness of the collectivity. I call it that because I don’t know what else I should call it. Each cell in your body is alive and hence conscious. But together they make you and you have a consciousness far superior to that of the cells that compose you. Your consciousness is what I call the super consciousness of your cells.
In the above video you see a murmuration of starlings. Each starling has his or her own consciousness but collectively they fly as a single body as if they form a different species.
Each bee is conscious but the hive seems to have its own consciousness. Likewise, each person has its own consciousness, but a family, a city or a nation, when united have their collective consciousness.
Human race is disunited. There are ideologies that promote hate. Islam is the main ideology of hate. For the next stage of evolution in this planet, humans must come together in spirit of brotherhood. But that is not possible as long as over a billion of people inhale hate and exhale violence.. Islam is the work of the Devil to prevent the evolution of Mankind. Once we get rid of this evil curse we will be able to become one family of mankind and when that happens the super spirit of humanity will manifest itself in all mankind. That would be the highest manifestation of God. God will literally reside with us.
As for Buddha, yes he attained perhaps the highest form of spiritual evolution possible for a man. As for Jesus, it is my understanding that He was created perfect from the start.
First ,thanks for the post .It is very soothing to know that mankind is evolving but not the other way round .Is it the same heaven you are talking about where there will be no diseases,no need of doctors which Jesus ,Buddha and Mahavira were talking about bcoz they also attained super consciousness ?