Imam Hussein’s Martyrdom. Who to Blame?
Hi Mr Sina,
I haven’t seen anything on your site about Imam Hussain and his war against Yazid fought at Karbala. Did Imam Hussain sacrifice himself and his clan in vain or was he really trying to save Islam. Please answer
Regards
Sharib
After caliph Othman was assassinated, some Muslims chose Ali as their caliph and others who did not like him pledged their allegiance to Mu’awiyah son of Abu Sufyan. Mu’awiyah was a cousin of Othman and had been appointed by him as the governor of Syria.. This division among Muslims caused many wars and bloodshed that lasted until the assassination of Ali. In the reason for the assassination and Ali and the failed attempt at the life of Mu’awiyah was to end the fratricide war between the Muslims.
When Ali was assassinated, his followers picked his son Hassan as his successor. However, Hassan was reluctant to fight against Mu’awiyah. He agreed to renounce his claim to caliphate for a large sum of money. Hassan was a womanizer and loved luxury and easy life. Hence, Mu’awiyah became the only caliph of Muslims.
Upon Mu’awiyah’s death, his son Yazid became his successor. At that time Hussein ibn Ali was in Medina and Walid ibn Otbah ibn Abu Sufyan (a cousin of Yazid) was the governor of Medina. Walid called Hessein to come and offer his allegiance to Yazid. Hessein told the messenger to go back and that he would come a little later. He then escaped and went to Mecca where he had his clan and many supporters. Meanwhile, people of Kufah sent a message to Hessein saying they dislike Yazid and have not offered their allegiance to him and if he comes to Kufah they will make him their caliph.
Husssein sent his cousin Muslim ibn Aqeel to investigate the situation. When Muslim went to Kufah 18000 inhabitants of Kufah pledged their allegiance to Hussein. Muslim informed Hessein and he decided to go to Kufah.
The news reached Yazid. He asked his cousin Abidulah ibn Ziad who was the governor of Basrah to go to Kufah and deal with the problem. Abidullah, like his father, was a fearless and ruthless man. He went to Kufah with a handful of his men and threatened the people of the consequence of their betrayal if they turn against Yazid. He warned them that treason against the caliph is treason against Allah and his messenger and their punishment will be severe both in this world and the next. Note that his is the Sharia. Muhammad had devised laws that brought the death of his grandson over 50 years later.
Ibn Aqeel was a guest of one of the dignitaries of Kufah by the name of Hani. Abidullah captured Hani, beat him and beheaded him in the market in front of his people. No one intervened. Although Abidullah was one man with a handful of protectors, the entire population of Kufah was so scared of him that they let him kill their leader Hani and abandoned Ibn Aqeel altogether. Ibn Aqeel was in a mosque leading them in prayer. When he finished the prayer he did not find anyone behind him. He went into hiding in a house of a woman who took pity on him, but her teenager son reported his whereabouts to Abidullah who sent people to capture him and spill his blood.
Meanwhile, Hussein, disregarded the counsel of his well-wishers in Mecca who advised him not to go or at least not to take his family along. He went to Kufah with his women and children. On his way he met a caravan coming from Yemen going to Syria carrying some goods for Yazid. He took passion of it but did not kill the men. He told the caravan men he is now the Caliph and they are free to join him or go.
When Muslim ibn Aqeel was in hiding, he sent a second message to Hussein informing him of the betrayal of the people of Kufah asked him to return. Hussein received that message when he was four stations away from Kufah but disregarded it. He said his fates is in the hand of Allah. Meanwhile Amro ibn Sa’id, sent his son Yahya and Abdullah ibn Ja’far, a cousin of Hussein with a letter warning him of the danger of going to Kufah. Hussein ignored their counsel too. He said that he had a dream in which he saw the Prophet who encouraged him to go to Kufah, He did not reveal the details of that dream. On his way to Kufah he met a man named Hur ibn Yazid Tamimi who asked Hussein about his destination and when learned he was going to Kufa told him not to go and told him that Muslim was killed.
Hussein’s faith in his dream was so great that he ignored all the warnings and proceeded into the mouth of death. The soldiers of Abidullah, confronted him and and his companions and killed them all.
Tabari says upon receiving the news of the death of Muslim, Hussein wanted to return but Muslim’s father Aqeel and his brothers who were with him said they are not going back until they had taken their revenge, and Hussein said he will not abandon them and carried on. That was a foolish decision. They could have returned and took their revenge when they had a better chance of winning. No sane person goes to war carrying with him his wives and children. Hussein was killed because of his stupidity.
The story is more detailed, but as you can see Hessein did not go to kufah to save Islam but to gain the caliphate that his brother Hassan had sold to Mu’awiyah. Lacking political sagacity and his blind trust on his dream made him ignore the danger which resulted in his death and the death of 145 members of his family and companions. He was obviously, as inept as a general as was his father, who brought nothing but war and fratricide upon Muslims.
Did Allah trick Hussein with a false dream? Was this dream sent to him by Satan and Allah and his messenger failed to warn him in time? Whatever may be the case, this shows that Allah did not care for or could not save Hussein. He laid his trust and fate in the hands of Allah and Allah ignored him or could not help him. Most likely Allah did not know because what was going on because Allah does not exist.
Even when Hussein was surrounded, Abidullah invited him to offer his allegiance to Yazid and spare his and his people’s lives. Hussein said he would rather fight. He either had a death wish or had placed too much faith on his dream of victory.
So who is responsible for his death and the death of his family? No one but him. And 1300 years later the Shiites still beat themselves for his death. Hussein died because he was stupid. Had he become a caliph, probably more people would have been killed.
The struggles between different factions of Muslims throughout the history were never over saving Islam. They were always over power. However, they all claimed to be the defender of Islam. Islam has always been used as a political tool. Even today, the feuding factions in the Muslim world claim to be defending Islam.
Hope this brief explanation answers your question.
Dear Mr Sina,
The clauses of allah creating adam and eve and banishing them from the kingdom of heaven after eating the forbidden fruit, The clause of Satan refusing to prostate before adam thereby inviting allah's wrath, the rescue of moses and his men from Paroah, etc are repeated many times in the quran. Even the clause regarding the prohibition of re-marriage of the prophets wife after his death (which hold no relevance today) was revealed. Since the Quran claims to be a guidance to mankind till eternity, then why was a clause explaining the successor of muhammad and the next caliph not revealed in the quran (which was much more important rather than repeating verses or including immaterial verses) ? This would have prevented the bifurcation of Sunnis and Shias from the Islamic community which is a cause of great blood shed of innocents and unrest all over the world. The people are fighting over who is right since there is no guidance on the issue in the Quran. Was allah not aware that such a conflict might result later??
Also it has been said repeatedly in the Quran that i have put a seal on the hearts of the disbelievers that they do not understand.. Then how can he later hold THEM responsible for their disbelief?
Kindly Reply, Regards
Aasif Rizvi ! r u shia give me ur email pls
ali mohd r u shia
Shut up Dumb..Shameless and insolent..U never went to school right,,?????So FUNNY and DUMB r u..U could go to school atleast to learn how to talk sense Sakatatatatata ahahahhaahah
who r they??
wat
r u shia ibn shakir?
Makaku! u e ki es fool com a tua familia understood??
Hahaha..So funny right??But no its not dummie..What is ur religion you kafir??U arent a master of Master hussain bcz u dont even reach just one of his hair okay??Being dumb is a big problem..I think ur parents didnt let u go to school that why u r DUMB mr Whatever Sakutaaaa hahahaahhahahaha
Not funny but evil, as evil as the ayatolahs who used to hang his people form cranes.
@Nida
There is no surprise ,your Mohammed and his religion Islam itself is FUNNY ,hahaha. Look how idiot you people stands for ,you are engaged in self inflicting injury (even inflict injury by force on little kids) in the name of that FOOL dead Hussien. 😮
@Nida
That Hussein was stupid.Oh!!! the master Hussien,that means you are another slave.Oh!!! lady i am not a slave ,i am the master of that ,"Master Husien" ha ha ha .:p
Nida,
'"THE MASTER HUSSEIN" THE GREAT THE BEST OF ALL', who was butchered with his entire family and household, like birds in an infested poultry farm, by Yazid.
Im not there and not even near..Im in Mozambique which is Africa all i can do is to pray..Bcz there r some sunnis and wahabi who r bombing the shiites. And they say that if they kill a shite they go to heaven..Whats more funny than this?
Seriously??What is ur religion by the way??Kafir??Maybe thats why u dont know about him"The Master Hussain"The great the best of all
@Nida
Because Islam itself is bad and Hussien is not exception!!!!! 😮
Ali sina@ you did not answer me y do u talk bad abt them?
u dnt thinkk??? If there was no bloodshed! life wud be very easy !! u wud do anything u want !!!
The great massacre of Sunni and Shiites has spread from Syria to Iraq. We shall now witness 100s of thousands die in these epic battles to settle their century old feud.. This must be Divine arrangement for the purifications of their sins accumulated over the centuries by their ancestors. The Western nations are helping by selling them the weapons and making good profits. Shabeer, slaveofprophet and Nida what can you do to help?
You re trying to know "Hussain"'s name right??So let me give u a brief explanation..He Is a master,he is what ppl want to be and trying to..He is an example for people nowadays and ppl like u should try to be like him and not ask stupid questions like yourself to ppl who follow Hussain..Labbayk Ya Hussain(a.s)
u john u muslim ? u better stop insulting our prophets n imams !
lier !
u saying prophet is to blame ???? let me see if u do that again !!
Ohh Really ? u dont have a religion so u dont understand !!
"The origin of the divide between Shiism and Sunnism is for the fight over money."" I think that you should write an article on this interesting division between Shiism and Sunnism. Many Muslims are dying to know the history and differences between these two horrible Islamic sect.
@Nida,
//"Hussein was a fool"Just this sentece of urs will make u pay a heavy price..How dare u even take his name?//
So what do you call a person trying to rough his way out with 72 of his companions with an army of 80,000 from the Caliphate chasing after them? Especially when the person was forewarned by his well wishers to put up with the arrangement temporarily.
@Sina.."Hussein was a fool"Just this sentece of urs will make u pay a heavy price..How dare u even take his name??His name is precious that Pigs arent supposed to say it"Pig(Sina)..I wouldnt have said all this to u but u took my master's name and said bad about him..So may u rot in hell wid ur whole family
The enmity between Abu Bakr and Ali started when Ali accused Aisha of infidelity and told Muhammad to divorce her. Of course the seed of that enmity was sown by Muhammad. He had given Aisha slave girls to help her while he gave none to Fatima, his own daughter. Ali complained and Muhammad came to their home at night and put his foot on the chest of Ali while he was still in bed telling him that he has no right to complain.
Then the enmity grew further when Muhammad died and Abu Bakr refused to give Fadak to Fatima. Fadak was a fortress town captured by Muhammad and kept by him as his personal property. Fatima claimed it as her inheritance and Abu Bakr refused to give it to her. The origin of the divide between Shiism and Sunnism is for the fight over money. Sadly Mulims don't read their own books and ironically tell others to read them. Well i read them and i saw the sham of Islam.
Hussein was a fool who died in his quest for power. He was warned not to go to Kufa by Abdullah ibn Zubair, but being a very stupid man like his father, he did not listen. It was his grandfather who legitimized killing and he paid the price. We don't have to cry for Hussein. There are countless victims of Islam that deserve our sympathy, not a dead Arab of the 8th century.
who r u talking abt?
Well said' im with u 🙂 u shia oe sunni?
SHAME ON YOU !! YES OFFCOUSE WE ARE HAVING FUN BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN ALLAH (swt) BY THE WAY WE SHUD LAUGH AT YOU COZ U DNT HAVE A RELIGION IDIOT !
🙁
Rubayasiraj!!! by the way bibi Fatima (a.s) never asked ALLAH FOR ANYTHING … she is the role model of shias !! can u pls tell me the name of the person who says is the devote ? !!!!!!
Who ever says bad abt imam hussen is a COWARD , STUPID & DUMB PERSON !! if you dont know imam hussen then you dont have a religion !!!!!!! try reading abt imam hussen in shias part not sunni !!!!!!! LANAT ON YAZID AND IF U FOLLOW YAZID LANAT ON YOU TOO!! YAZIDIAT MURDABAD !!! HUSSENNIAT ZINDABAD!!! LABBAYK YA HUSSEN !! im proud to be a shia of imam ali.. proud to be a husseini !! imam hussen says remember me when the truth becomes alone !!!
@Lover of Islam..Shimr may had be a shia but he killed imam Hussain bcz of Yazid and u ppl follow Yazid.Think that yazid is good but he was cruel,bad,insolent and mamny more
Nida,
"She is the lady of paradise–". Yet she refused to speak to Abu Bakr for the last six months of her life and when she died her husband did not inform the caliph till after the burial. Do muhammadans go to their paradise bearing grudges? What an example!
Hmm..So why talk bad about Hussain?Descendant of imam Ali??So why talk bad about his son?
@ Nida,
I am not a Muslim. But i was born into a twelver family and apparently i am descendant of Ali. As you must know the Arabs raided Iran, butchered millions of us and raped their women. So I am a descendant of those rapists.
This is for u@Ali Sina
Lanat on these people who did bad things to Ahlulbayt and hurt the family of the prophet..Lanat Beshumar
Mr.Rubayasiraj..Dont u dare call Her dumb and vain woman..She is tha lady of paradise..She is the only one why ppl now respect woman..And i think u read something wrong..Would plz go to google and write"Fatima's life..Ahlulbayt"..And ther eu go read so ething true
Are You shia or sunni?Are u with imam Hussain or against him?
I am not very concerned about Yazid killing the child of Hussein. This was something Muhammad had condoned. When asked about killing the children of the unbelievers Muhammad said “they are from them.” However, the fact is that Yazid was not a Muslim. He had an enmity with Islam and specially with the family of Muhammad who had killed many of his relatives at Badr. It is foolish to believe that Abu Sufyan and his children’s faith in Islam was sincere. They remained Muslim because it gave them power and a kingdom. How else could they find so many fools to wage war for them for nothing and create an empire for them without expecting any pay? Islam was a great business for the Bani Ummayah and subsequent rulers of Islam. To this day they call their wars for domination jihad to enlist the gullible Muslims to fight for them. Even Muhammad used his fake religion for worldly power.
Pray For yazid??Hahahaha..Whoever said this is a person who doesnt think..Yazid was bad and cruel he didnt have a heart..And ppl pray for him??When the little Ali asghar was thirsty and imam hussain was asking for water to give the little baby of 6 months instead of water Yazid's followers or soldiers killed him..And ppl want to pray for him??Shame on is ppl
Mr..Whatever..Whoever wrote this..Shame on you..Hussain is Master.Hussain Is Religion..Hussain is everything for all the shias..So why dont u go read a little bit more about him??Why didnt u read how he and his family suffered??Why??Why??Why dont u read about how he sacrificed his whole family even his little princess Sakina just for Islam??Shame On you..Hussain is what u should try to follow and not call him stupid..Bcz stupid here is YOU..Mr.Whatever
I am not sure about this but I heard it from a devout Muslim. When Hasan and Husein were young, they couldn't find their mother Fatima at home. So, they went out looking for her. Finally, they found her in the mosque praying with Muhammad. They just took a peek and went back home. Fatima some how realised that somebody was watching them and she cursed them saying that they should be killed untimely and cruelly! God granted her prayers. When she returned home and came to know that she had unknowingly cursed her sons, she started beseeching to God to not have them hurt. But God didn't reply. Man, what a dumb and vain woman! Even God understood that and gave her the well deserving lesson! But she sould consider herself lucky that she had died before seeing the death of her sons.
Your suggestion also applies perfectly to someone who has a sincere heart and is trying to figure out whether Muhammad was truthful or a deceiver.-
Muhammad seemed confident about almost everything he told people to believe and acted as if he had everything figured out! Stop blindly following him! Don't take our word for it, learn YOURself. We are humans, not sheep!
Do YOU have enough courage to move forward and do YOUR OWN real and raw research on Muhammad?? His Allah guides whoever he wishes and sends astray whoever he wishes (Q 6:39). But I promise that the real God will only GUIDE you 100% 🙂
I clicked this article thinking I would gain some insight on different perspective and views but instead I find biase islamiphobic propoganda that isnt even properly cited by the way. Any self respecting actual historian will tell you the same thing. I dont understand how people even resort to putting so much trust in such articles. Its called google, íf you really have a sincere heart and willing to push through the lies for the truth then I believe 100% God will guide you to it. otherwise continue reading, but Ihope one day you will wake up and have enough courage to move forward and venture out and do you own real and raw research. stop blindly listening to anyone who seems confident and that they have everything figured out. But hey, please dont take my word for it! learn more yourself! we are humans not sheep!
-Peace <3 my brothers and sisters of humanity
your explanation is sum of trues and lies. i ask from each one that wants to know about Imam Hussein and Karbala, read the right books, ask from researchers, ask from Shia's researcher…
Hey you wahhabi mad buggers if you Prophet SAW's family this much where do you think you are going? are you seriously going heaven thinking all this bad. Yazid was disapproved by Abu Bakr's sons even, even Umar's son disapproved. He was a cursed murderer. His father Muawiya even told him don't meet Allah in judgement day with Hussein's blood.
[youtube 5hfYJsQAhl0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0 youtube]
To all those who believe Ali Sinas dribble
can you give me the reference about what you have written .
i don't care but i think they were two dogs fighting for power.
Lol Sunnis are actually more backward than Shias. Shias are more progressive in their teachings. But it's all Islam so ewwww
Abmonterl, have you ever heard of something called history? It is sometime an accurate record of events written by those who were not present from what they gather from various sources. The account has not been disputed because the muhammadans know that it is true.
This ali sina guy just want to act he is smart and wise then other people. You are describing this event like you were present there did you video tape it while you were there mind if you upload on youtube.
Ali Sina a hero of the two centuries, 20th and 21st.
lol i been reading and following thi guy (ali sina) for a while since i was 13 good to finallysee that he came out and showed his face. i know now why he was hiding it cuz he looks un intelligent.
All i know is Muslims are a Brain Washed bunch of Innocent people who are still living in past and one man is to blame for it (HISTORY'S BIGGEST LIAR) Muhammad.
atheistm, atheism, christian, christian, islam, islam, jew, …….
I wanna laugh seeing that all of u debatind on it.
Just ENJOY ur life, man!
Oh Wow!
Where do they breed such intelligence and originality.
I must say I think Mohammed was a smart man. His revelations made him rich, powerful, respected and bestowed with many women, concubines and slaves.
Dear Mr/Ms Maz, can you kindly explain to a non-muslim like me why rape, murder, APOSTASY, armed robbery and drug trafficking are all punishable by death under Saudi Arabia's strict version of sharia, or Islamic law? Can you also explain why muslims have no freedom at all and have to die if they change to another religion in Saudi Arabia?
Is there something genuinely wrong with you? I'm a muslim & I respect all religions. I think it's great that people believe in a superior being, so why is it that you can't respect muslims?
You used to be a muslim, and fair enough you didn't like it. Doesn't mean you have to boycott the religion and make up a load of rubbish.
Clearly even when you were a muslim your days were filled with ignorance.
self patting carry on!!!
Ha ha ha . .. is that what you call your "swearing".
Oh – you are poor dear! Go and enjoy yourself.
Ha ha ha . . . .
– – –
The pretense at being knowledgeable is laughable. . . I exposed that.
If you are SUCH a huge scholar.
You should have answered . .. . there.
Rather than these absurd replies.
Hard truth's are hardly told.
When you cannot answer – you become abusive!
How quaint!
– – –
You ARE illiterate. . . . that is painfully obvious.
Take a hike – love. Ande quit the nonsense.
You are dealing with figure( reincarnation) belonging to MAD MOHAMMED,and as usual he thinks, all here are illiterate Abubakr , dacoit Omar or cunning business man Utman and of course yonuke Ali . This guy want to insert himself in the queue of learned beings but don't know it is useless to cliff hanger him ,he is miserable in understand ,that this is not seventh century and Julia is not ,Ayesa or Saffia ,she is a sniper of U.S seals,he must think rationally here before being some one put rod in his ass..
"I urge you to submit a sample of your argumentation to any tenured Professor of Logic at an accredited [Western] university for his/her perusal."
Here is WHY you are liar – and NOT what you claimed.
This is NOT how universities and its staff work.
– – –
You could NOT argue with me . . . but simply make absurd lying, claims.
Which in itself is FALLACIOUS.
All you wanted to do was – put out a LYIGN claim – that you are an AUTHORITY.
Here is the difference.
If you WERE an authority – then you would have COUNTER-ARGUED.
Something you could NOT do.
Hence, you are NOT what you say you are.
– – –
"Your "skills" at reasoning and argumentation are woefully inadequate; they lead me to believe that you are perhaps an inexperienced teenager."
Proof?
Example?
If you are that good. . . .evidence?
Anyone can come one here making claims.
The proof of the pudding, as the saying goes, . . . is in the eating!
– – –
"In any case, by Modern Western standards, you are currently embarrassing yourself tremendously by your wild , inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims, your continuous boasting, evasion and obfuscation, and your use of circular reasoning and logical fallacies. "
Examples?
Proof?
– – –
"I am here merely at the request of one of my students who appropriately spotted many of the innumerable flaws in your presentations. "
Ha ha ha ha . . . . which ones?
– – –
"Do yourself and your co-religionists a favor – take the time and effort to learn first and then engage others, if you truly have a desire to "win" an argument or a debate. Or you might try dialectic. (Look it up.) That, I fear, is so far beyond you at this point that you'll need many more additional resource materials and classes to be up to the task. "
It is KIND OF obvious . . . you are lying.
I called you out . . .
This is a poor and silly response.
= = =
You want others to believe this:
"In any case, by Modern Western standards, you are currently embarrassing yourself tremendously by your wild , inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims, your continuous boasting, evasion and obfuscation, and your use of circular reasoning and logical fallacies. "
Without a single shred of evidence.
A tall order.
– – –
And it ACTUALLY confirms . . .
I am THAT good and smart!
– – –
"Good luck. If you truly desire to master this skill, it is within your reach. It is only a matter of time and dedication. "
What skill – what the hell are you talking about? Ha ha!
" I am an average person I think and that makes you a person who thinks low of mankind. "
You come out with some real GUFF. Just because YOU call yourself average .. .. this equals to me thinking "low" of mankind.
The word "absurd" doesn't seem strong enough!
– – –
"Julia was anti-Islam and that was it. She kept within the borders of freedom of speech. "
That WASN'T it.
Julia was mindless troll. A man pretending to be a woman. . .
– – –
"You are a Muslim. As such you either distance yourself from other Muslims and take responsibility for that, which I have never seen you do. But still you ask me to distance myself from counterjihadists. "
Another ABSURDITY!
I am NOT responsible for ANYONE but myself. You are the same.
this "counterjihadist" is whole load BS. And NOTHING more.
– – –
"or you can be accused of being in leaque with them by giving them support in the form of fighting their enemies, which is what you do here. "
Doh! It does NOT work that way. As those who commit terror – I denounce them, etc.
– – –
"and it does not matter that Julia was only on this site and FFI and that you claim that you have nothing to do with other Muslims. "
Doh!
– – –
"Because you use your skills and influence to help them against their enemies. For that you are to be held accountable. "
How do I help whom?
This says it all!
"Julia pretty much does what most of us want to do on seeeing those stupid brain dead comments and arguments(?). "
Wow – the absurdity of this comment!
In other words . . . there ARE no brain dead comments – other than your own and those of YOUR side.
– – –
"those, haughty, insulting, stupid followers of islam. "
Ha ha ha . . . BUT this is what Julia did – MINDLESS insults.
NO ONE is worse!
– – –
"and if i am not wrong, i believe that it is u who said that only way to deal with this hard core muslims to 'insult them and put them to shame' rather than try to reason with them. "
Well done! You show him up well.
– – –
"i also believe that Julia's responses doesnt reflect his/ her inability to debate but her better understanding of islam followers than most of the scholars here "
Ha ha ha ha . . . what scholars? So this person couldn't debate . . .
and this is the answer?
– – –
In other words . . . this is Julia from another computer!
any person who will die and have not the affection of Ahlulbait will die like a pig and dog.
you are not a muslim man , but a cowered and fool man . Your parents are very fool who have given the birth of a fool man like you.
I want to know which translation of the holy Quran do you have?
You clearly haven'tread your bible, your bible is full of voilence against innocent people, but the verses about war (which Ali Sina have tried to deceive Non-Muslims) in the Noble Qur`an is defensive war only. Go take your time and read your bible, christians.
Do you really think you can deceive people with your unauthentic sources ? 1234, you should go to authentic islamic sources to find the truth, don't be tricked to believe in what the islamophobics say. Ask any Muslim, they know their religion more than all these stupid bigots pretending to know everything about Islam but they are anti-Islam party line (Ali sina, pamela gemmer, and all these anti-Muslim hatred bigots.) They get money by the gov. to deceive you.
Lanate Allahe Qazebeen. Lanat On Yazid & The enemy Of Ahlulbait..
Julia pretty much does what most of us want to do on seeeing those stupid brain dead comments and arguments(?). i believe that he/she is giving the right response, rather than trying to argue or debate like other learned bloggers, which is totally useless in convincing those, haughty, insulting, stupid followers of islam.
and if i am not wrong, i believe that it is u who said that only way to deal with this hard core muslims to 'insult them and put them to shame' rather than try to reason with them.
i also believe that Julia's responses doesnt reflect his/ her inability to debate but her better understanding of islam followers than most of the scholars here
Dear Mr.Sina,
i am one of those numerous people who regularly visit this site, though not informed enough to participate in debates.
where i live, main strength of islam is majority people's ignorance of islams true colour.most of us are under impression that 'all religions preach the same, though followers twist and distort them'. hence we respect islam as just another path to reach 'God'.
but, here i learned the truth. and i believe that 'spreading the truth' about islam is the urgent need of the hour in countries like India, where the majority are under delusion that muslims are totally harmless people of just different faith.
"showing evidence is not hate , you pathetic looser. every evil thing in this world is going to be destroyed."
Interesting to note! It is ME who is after evidence!
denialisnoproof – is NOT known for his brain-powers. This ain't the first time. This is what I point out. . .
Such people have hate for Islam/Muslims and they sacrifice their rationality. Truth – does NOT matter to such people.
Hence they rely on any lie going. . .
kennedy killed who is to blame??..that is just such an ordinary scene in political world.why then you people don't say jesus killed…then who is to blame???
It has to be admitted that Muhammad was a massive fraud who tricked people to their death and eternal doom. In life he lived on deceit and in death he never departed from it. He deceived his grandson , Hussein, into believing that leaving the safety of Mecca for Kufah meant victory against Yazid when there was nothing like that. Hussein was lured to his untimely death by the dream he had of a dishonest grandfather who had no power to provide him protection. Muslims are still so daft as not to see the lies spurn by this lunatic. The miracle of islam is that there are 1.5 billion people in the world today who are brainless enough to follow such a fraudster. What happened to Hussein should be an eye opener to every discerning mind that islam offers no hope in this world not to talk of the hereafter.
If one ever went to a Shia majlis during the month of Moharram, not once are the names of other 60 people killed in Karbala is ever mentioned. You only hear names of some of the close relatives of Hussain, such as Kassem, Abbas etc. This is because some of those people killed had names like Abu Bakr, Omar, & Yazid.
It is ludicrous to see your attempt to prove that shia SHIMR killed Hussein . It does not matter. Both , SUNNI and SHIA sects of ISLAM are brutal and barbaric. ISLAM is the most primitive and most darkness. ISLAM survived by drilling fear in the minds of it's followers – fear of grave /ALLAH/MO and fear of the killing by the followers , if you say anyhting truth about ISLAM !! SO everybody in ISLAM lives by fear . It is terror by ISLAMISTS , the ultra,ultra,ultra fundamentalist Mussalmans and followers of MO. You dont have a chance that you will see the next day , if you tell truth about ISLAM. The fundamentalist ISLAMISTS will kill you. This is truth . Read SIRA, READ HADIS , READ QQUURRAAN . What do you like in the life of MO ? Be honest and first decidew that you must follow and embrace all the best values in human society and for yourself – you must feel good by embracing,supporting such highest human values- truth, honesty, kindness, compassion, equality, equal justice, peace, freedom to all and many more. BUT as a moslem you become a bigot. AS a moslem you are dishonest. as a Moslem you are most biased, narrow minded. AS a moslem you filled with poison against all unbelievers. Look ito yourself. then you will find. WHo made you like that ? ISLAM !!!! ISLAM !!!!. In order to be a good human being , leave ISLAM and feel liberated.
truth is that this fight and killings were to claim for the position and power of caliph . Ali and his sons vs Muwaiyya and his son YaZID and their followers .
Demsci, you are right: zakat and jizya are neither the same or equal. Zakat is paid by the muslim not as punishment or protection but as his contribution towards the propagation of islam. He enjoys equal status no matter where he may be. Jizya, on the other hand is paid by the Christian or Jew for his refusal to convert to islam. The quran says that he pays it in total humiliation. The payer is a dhimmi or second class citizen whose rights are determined by the ruling oligarchy. An example of what this type of tax can do to a people is to be found in India where islamic and non-islamic historians concur that it worsened the cast system when poor farmers had to sell their possessions, sometimes including their children, to meet the demands of the despots.
imam hussain is the best
Oye The lover of wicked, cruel deathcult ISLAM :: You do not have conscience . Know the truth and tell the truth – that ISLAM and it's tenets are based on HATRED and killing of unbelievers. ISLAM is ill will and fascism ISLAM is totalitarianism.. ISLAM is sex .ISLAM is slavery. ISLAM is taqiyya. ISLAM is mubahila. ISLAM is hell and hell fire. ISLAM is hooddoed laws and discrimination. ISLAM is evil supremaciam. ISLAM is religious apartheid. It must be clear to every good , honest true citizen of the world
that ISLAM is the most uncivilized, most primitive theology. ISLAM does not belong in human civilization.
Moslems say lies about MUHARRUM – and claim that it is the sacrifice of imam Hussein !!! There is no sacrifice in this. IT is the fight between two thugs and criminals to prove who has the upper hand in killing the opponent !!!
SANATANA DHARMA in all its essence ,deconditioning of mind .it is like blank chip you can fill any amount of durable and beneficial data ,which will help the possessor and others equally .
indidelretard
ha its muslims not moslems retard. Learn how to spell right.
and if you wanna spread the hate of islam then do it in your homes.
the one who killed hussain simple was a shia. The fact that the Shia of Kufa are the ones who abandoned Sayyiduna Hussain has already been discussed earlier. What the Shia propagandists will reply to this is that “sure, the Shia are the ones who didn’t defend Sayyiduna Hussain but it was the Sunnis who actually killed him!”
However, this is not true at all. The man who killed Sayyiduna Hussain (i.e. gave the death-blow) was a man by the name of Shimr bin Thil-Jawshan and he was a Shia, as recorded in both Sunni and Shia books. Shimr was part of the Shia, and then he betrayed Sayyiduna Hussain and joined Yazid’s men, giving Sayyiduna Hussain the death-blow.
To provide a solid proof of this fact (i.e. that Shimr was a Shia), we refer to the esteemed and classical Shia scholar, Al-Qummi. Al-Qummi, author of the famous book “Mafaatihul-Jinaan”, writes in his book: “I say, Shimr was in the forces of Ameer al-Mu’mineen on the Day of Siffin.” (Al-Qummi, “Safinatun-Najaat”, vol.4, p. 492, Chapter Sheen Followed by Meem)
Kosovo muslims are were Europes drug trafickers. When they had too much spare cash and power for they did not fear the rule of land they decided to create a fight.
In the end it is all about power and money and lawlessness. Search drugs, mafia, organ trafficing in Kosovo and millions of pages will crop up. Sadly UN got it wrong on Kosovo http://www.globalresearch.ca/kosovo-europe-s-mafi…
When innocent people get killed, whether they be muslim or non muslim, THAT's attrocity.
But when someone disregards common sense, believing in dreams instead? THAT's stupid.
How is it possible ? Unless you are demented like that Monster , profit profiteer !!! The very basis of ISLAM is injustice, partiality, discrimination, hatred for all unbelievers, intolerance and fascism of ISLAM (MOSLEMS) , and ISLAM is the worst thing that came into existence in this human civilization. ISLAM does not belong in human civilization. Every aspect of ISLAM, ISLAMIC culture, ISLAMIC history, ISLAMIC books, ISLAMIC mullas proves this . You need to gain knowledge, know the truth about the entire history of ISLAM. There is no doubt in this this . As for DR. SINA , he is like a noble soul with that indomitable spirit who first understood the core evil, cruelty ,hatred ,killing as the basis of ISLAM and wanted to save the humanity from scourge of ISLAM . In whatever way you know ISLAM, think, analyze , there is nothing good in ISLAM. There is no spirituality in ISLAM. There is nothing new or original contribution from ISLAM as a spiritual path that can lift a human soul. Actually it is the opposite. Once you are a true moslem, you will be a bad person and will committ all sorts of cruelties, show hatred and think abnormally. ISLAM is a terrible, terrible religion. The world must be freed from this plague. That is why Dr. SINA is waging this tireless battle to save world. We follow him . We know in our hearts that we are doing a noble job.
I personally believe in the universal laws, but that does not mean that this
imaginary "God" exists. watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
It is very interesting, and will explain to you the history of this specific
"God", and how the humans created him, not vise versa.
That's what I did….but Sina insists that I am a Muslim
as long as I am refusing the injustice done to Islam
on his site.
"When you cannot answer."
You often claim Ali Sina "cannot answer", Aminriadh,
But I say that he does NOT HAVE TO answer you. He can let you contradict him and beat him, in a positive way, with evidence. This you are able to and you are to be congratulated, even thanked, for this.
But most of the time you react to his propositions with the argument that appeals to ignorance. You claim his propositions to be false or meaningless because of lack of (enough, good) evidence. I think he elsewhere presents much good evidence and reason for most of what he says, but that is not the point.
The point is that he is not obliged to present evidence, at all. And you are not either. But both of you have the job of convincing the reader. And for that you better both come up with good evidence and reason and with 2 or more opinions.
But if Ali Sina does not answer your demands for proof you will ……. call his propositions false or meaningless, and that you use for saying he is incapable of answering (while he may have answered elsewhere long since or he may be too busy), lying, or incompetent, or lacking in scientific level, and dishonest.
But even without evidence and reason, AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT, he may still have much to say that is true and has merits and is elsewhere amply evidenced and reasoned.
And you rely on the argument of appeal to ignorance if you try to nullify/ negate that. And that is a disservice to the truthseeker-reader.
It would be better for the reader and even your opponents, if you refuted Ali Sina with your own propositions, backed up with your evidence, examples. Something you can be very good at to. Then let the readers choose. Beat your opponents in a positive way, with say, 4-3, and not in a negative way, with 0-0 or 1-0.
"Whereas it is THE WESTERN STANDARD!
That it is THE JOB of claimant to bring evidence."
THIS RIGHT THERE is our bone of contention for a long time now, Aminriadh.
It is about the BURDEN OF PROOF.
Yes, it IS on the claimant. On the one who claims that something exists and not on the one who denies this.
But I say that you MISUSE this Western standard. It is NOT ALWAYS applicable. Only in a certain SETTING.
It is NOT applicable when ordinary people simply talk, comment, propose something.
I am ordinary, and yes, although very knowledgeable about history and the news of the world and such, but
I AM weak in providing evidence and examples for what I remember from the tens of thousands of conversations I had, articles and bookpages I read. YES, YES!
But only when an opponent of me, has counter-proposed, also to the reader, with a small SECOND opinion, only THEN, for the benefit of the reader, it is fitting to put the burden of proof where it belongs.
It is just not fair to the reader to argue that the proposition of a commenter is false or worthless, and to advise the reader to reject it on that basis, just because it has no evidence (at that point),
when it might well be based on something true and with merits, that the reader was unaware of!
I basically rely on you, Aminriadh, committing many times the fallacy:
Argument from ignorance, as explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignora…
It says:
"appeal to ignorance" (where "ignorance" stands for: "lack of evidence to the contrary")"
"It asserts that a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true, it is "generally accepted" (or vice versa)."
You seem to be impatient of ambiguity, other possibilities existing besides a proposition being either true or false. That is why you so often commit this fallacy; argument from ignorance, I suppose.
You see, I think I am a common man, around average. So many are like me. And I read thousands of articles and hundreds of books, and of course have discussed with other people all my life. In those articles and books and other people there was plenty of evidence for the facts and conclusions I remembered. Or for much of them anyway.
From there I have all those propositions in me that I can remember and propose, present here. I can make fine arguments.
But indeed, I AM weak in providing: evidence, sources, examples. for all of them. And to find back my sources. I can often refer only vaquely to them.
But my solution to that problem is not to discourage people to comment, as you do, but to let them make propositions to their heart's content.
Then opponents can counter with a contradicting opinion. For the benefit of the reader, the judge-jury-audience. Who have the right to 2 or more opinions to choose from.
I now realise that that I see Ali Sina and many others do all the time. Even if it is a small one, they always come up with a contradicting opinion, they serve the reader with a second opinion, for choice, just like it happens in a courtroom. Even in science one can easily see that every new theory has it;'s rivals; even if it is just the theory that prevailed before it's arrival.
And you, Aminriadh, challenging my propositions with asking for evidence I respond to by saying; Ask away, but my not answering does not give you the right to tell the reader that what I say is then false or meaningless. The reader can decide that and you can convince him by giving a contradicting opinion to mine that is better than mine, supported by better evidence (easy when I failed to give evidence).
And when opponents go the road of providing evidence to the hilt, that still won't satisfay you, because then you will always find contradicting evidence, or even declare evidence just "copy-paste-listing" or something. Providing evidence to you will opponents get nowhere, it seems.
I know that you claim you use logic very well, but I must insist on you giving a SECOND OPINION, however small, to present to the reader, to let 2 or more opinions compete and be compared.
And I suspect you to use logic for the purpose of debunking-denying-dismissing anti-Islam-propositions, with the ultra-purpose of defending Islam in this way.
This is a negative approach and you may complain us being hypocritical if we do this too.
But I prefer the positive approach; that comments, propositions still CAN be true, without evidence and reason presented and still have merit, being a little positive.
It is then the JOB of the opponent to present a little or still better contradicting proposition to the reader, in order to give him the choice between 2 or more propositions on the issue at hand.
Another thing which makes sanatana dharma more endearing is that it is the most life giving force and sustaining force .
One has to read BHAGAVAD GITA to see how rational and science of spirituality it is . 5000 yrs back , it was presented to humanity !!!!!!!!!
Todays news . (Dec 30th 2012 ). In PAKISATAN : The ISLAMIC terrorists ( in this case SUNNI Moslems , TALIBANIS) attacked buses that were travelling from PAKISATAN and carrying SHIA moslems to IRAN , by detonating explosives by remote control. As a result 19 SHIA moslems were killed and 25 injured . In a separate incident , the TALIBAN attacked a military caravan and killed 21 soldiers .
Then leave ISLAM. You are not a true Moslem !!!!
There's no _real evidence_ that millions are leaving Islam. The majority of the Muslim population is the average Muslim who believes in Islam and Allah to some degree. Ex-muslims are minorities and a very small population. — just like for any other religion.
With time religion is going down, but this is very gradual. Unless you have evidence that millions are leaving Islam but we dont. No one is going to believe that.
These plans are being executed allover.
Websites such as these are great,although this could do with less hate speech and personal attacks in the comments section(on both sides).
In Youtube for example,there are at least 10 such channels where videos criticizing Islam are produced.Some of these people are ex-muslims,some are Arabs.So they are calling the bluff of apologists who get away with "you don't know Arabic!"They have weekly shows where a specific issue of Islam is discussed.Islamic apologists are invited for discussion,and you should see their faces during the show 🙂
The best are Christian apologists,specially the self-taught groups of them.The sophisticated/trained ones usually employ an academic style which doesn't work on common people.The less sophisticated ones attack Islam vitriolically like Islamic apologists and get attacked in return on Christianity.The debates that ensue are not only hilarious,but expose the ridiculousness of both religions.The result can only be the dilution of faith of the audience.Of course such fights are only good as long as microphones are the only weapons allowed 🙂
There are others in the muslim communities who speak out against Madrassa education, specially in democratic countries. With more education, the number of such people will increase.
I believe that the reform in Islam, or it's obliteration will be brought about by people brought up in muslim houses only.Bangladeshi freethinkers,for example,have a blogsite that brings out the evils in their societies as a result of Islamization.The website is pretty popular and the content generated is pretty rich and not just Islam-abuse.
I will contribute whatever little I can,mostly by participating in or financially supporting Scientific education among muslims in my country.It will be a collective effort-and it will be a combination of political diplomacy,education and Social movements.
Jiohn,
I owe you an apology.
There are list of the "99 names of Mohammed" compiled by Muslims as well as lists of 99 names of Allah.
The two lists are different and various lists of "99 names of XXX" differ between themselves as well.
Sina, you are always wrong….Vegans don't like to drink alcohol
and I am a vegan. I enjoy life, but not the way people like you
think. You said when they get old they do "Tawba" and go to
Hajj……again and again you are wrong. It is impossible for me
to go to Hajj…because in that season, they sacrifice animals,
and I am against killing animals (don't know if you know it or not).
The more I read for you, the more you look to me either a stubborn
ignorant, or a liar.
I must admit, when I first visited your site, I was impressed, because
I thought then that your criticism was objective…..until I started to
notice lies…one lie after the other, then I lost interest in you.
It is that one who named himself Infidel/Kafir.
Haven't you noticed the writing style?
also there are certain words the alleged "Julia"
used them often, like TAQIYYA, for example
another example, she/he used to prolonge a word
by doubling or trippling a letter e.g. instead of
writing Quran, he wrote QQUURRAAN
Joe…..please get lost ! you are like a fly when it constantly
insists to land on my face.
In part two, he rejected her deduction
Names are only explored attributes based on human understanding.
How come I can’t see his comments?
The Muslim world is full of people like Rainbow. These people are still Muslim in their heart and mind but their genital and their stomach are apostate. They like to sleep around, drink, and enjoy life. But they have not cut their umbilical cord from Islam. Most of them revert to Islam when they are old enough and get ready for their death. They do tawbah, go to hajj and get ready to go to paradise to bang young whores. Their hatred of the non-Muslims particularly the Jews, their disdain of the west (even thought they live in the west) and all the prejudices that a good Muslim must have is intact in them.
That is not possible, at least not with the present technology. However, theoretically speaking, the answer is yes. If you can make the brain of a pig similar to the brain of a human, the pig will be able to ponder over his origin and will also understand the theory of relativity.
Human morality is also a product of evolution. It is an evolutionary imperative. Each species has evolved differently based on its evolutionary needs. We are not the same as other animals. We are very much complex. That is all due to our brain.
I read Armstrong’s book about 18 years ago. I know what she says. At that time I agreed with him. Now I know a lot more than she does.
In all languages, one thing has more than one name.
Guess who is stupid and ignorant now ?
Sina, (I am serious) watch this video about the History of God
it is two parts, when you watch it you will know the origin of this
"God"( or Yahweh or Allah) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYCjcw1KJKM Part I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww2fzT-vlSs part II
Good merchandizing !
LOKI . You are so forthright and intelligent , but still you commit such gross errors !! I cant believe . What you write is all good and true about ISLAM, eventhough , your opinions are mild about ISLAM . You must know, knowing all the truth about ISLAM , MO/ALLAH,SIRA,HADIS, QQURRAN, that ISLAM is totally incompatible with our human civilization. ISLAM is simply darkness, cruel, evil, hate filled and killing . There is absolutely no possibility , that as long as ISLAM exists , there could be peace, prosperity and progress . It is that terrible .
Your writing that – our species can survive even after SUN runs out !!! wholy molly – How can our species survive if SUN runs out !!!! It is impossible .
Second , you say — even if nature plans to kill us all one day , we put up a decent fight !!!!!! what kind of statement is this ? Nature does not plan to kill us . Why will nature plan that way ? Actually we are planning, routinely to kill nature and responsible for all kinds of destructions and degradations. Nature is bountiful and benevolent . We are digging our own grave by our foolish actions .
You said you want to see end of Islam. I have asked what option you have to render your plan.
SANATANA DHARMA is different from all other religions. Actually it is not a religion. It is properly described as eternal natural law or path. Why it will be embraced by humanity ? when they come to know the dharma , in all it's glory and truth , it is mesmerizing and magnetic . why ? Because , it is positive, it is natural, it does not conflict with any thing !!! Most of all it is diametrically opposite of all the ABRAHAMIC religions. The fundamental philosophy of SANTANA DHARMA is to make every individual to go into their core , innermost and discover who you are !!! Then the DHARMA asks the individual to , first , purify him/herself until they reach higher state of consciouness and purity where they can see all divinity in everything !!!! around them . DHARMA principle does not depend upon external considerations !!! No negative talk, feelings or actions against anything . You dont find fault with any external factor or person or ideology like ISLAM and christianity. There is no fear of grave or terror from hell or from ALLAH or YHEHOWA . , putting you in hell fire to burn for ever. There is no command that you must believe in DHARMA – but to find and search for your own path until you discover yourself and God realization.
So you think if you genetically developed "neocortex" in pigs they can start having self actualization !
Human is designed naturally to use science not to be slave of it like you do ! Whatever are so called development to the credit to human are imitation, copied from nature. Anything which is development by human is purely an act of copy cat, let it be wheel or computing device or chemistry.
You are an animal if you move by your physiological and psychological needs but never grew as human (Ashraful Makhluqat)
You are writing against your Propit MOHAMMAD !!! and his revealations !!
What's the meaning of that sentence?
It is amazing stupidity of Mussalmans thinking !!! when There is only one ALLAH , there are 99 names to him !!! How funny. You dont believe in other ALLAHS !!!
think the stench is rainbow's rotting mind.. no oxygen i believe
Hi John,
sorry have to disagree.. there are millions of ex-muslims and more are leaving Islam as they become aware of the truth.. there are people like Ali Sina and "Son of Hamas" who are examples of thinking people that are smart enough to discover they have been duped.
Muslims that truly believe in God and truly wish to evolve, these people leave Islam.. It may take a while for the whole realisation to be complete.. just search 'son of hamas' for a very candid example of a true man who speaks honestly and i will bet will lead Palistine into a peaceful and great future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a9S5Q1dNYA
@Jonmc
yes better save your time.. Rainbow is not of an open mind. He does not know whether he is muslim or aethiest .. keeps changing his/her mind
@Jonme
yes it is hilarious..
i think that the best approach is to keep the arguements very simple and one point at a time.. my observation is that muslims are very childish and are unable to understand detailed arguements..
what seems to happen over and over again is that they will look for a word or phrase in what you wrote and then quote it out of context.
What is even more hilarious is that there is this concept that "everyone else just does not understand me".. it is somrthing like out of the "life of Brian" .. "What have the romans ever done for us" 🙂
funny you ask for the verses that say killing the unbeliever and .. surprise Muslim changes subject!
funny muslim justifies violence preached in religion as "higher honor" ..
you ask "why not religion".. and everybody is beging to understand that islam is NOT A RELIGION.. it is a Arabic racist nationalism.. BAN ISLAM
where are the conditions.. you must believe Jesus or you will be murdered?
seems like your simplistic mind has trouble working out the difference between Rape and consenting sex..
In Arabic also it means dear and mighty as well.
When we write a letter, we start it by: Azizi (means my dear)
Julia….get lost ! I thought you are banned
Malem ( OOPS – Rainbow you stole my word !! #1 Moslem trait !! LOL) .. Any way , did you read all the articles on this web site ? Did you read Dr. SINA's Book Unseratanding MOHAMMAD ? Did you read sira ? Did you read ALL books of HAdis ? Did you read all of QQUURRAAN in english ? Then you are will not be repeating again again the topics here !! They are fully discussed .
By the way , there is no comparison in history for all that death, destruction , rape, loot, cruelty , TAQIYYA, MUBAHILA , barbarism ,brutality committed ,perpetuated bY ISLAM / Moslems the followers of that monster MO !!! How can you compare ? See for yourself that how many countries were conquered, how many cyltures were destroyed, how many people (270 million ) were butchered by ISLAM/MOSLEMS !!!! This is ongoing !!! Know this – In PAKISATAN, the majority SUNNI Moslem ISLAMIC theocracy will not allow MOHARRUM by shia's . IN SODI BARBARIA the majority WAHAABBI ISLAMIC religious apartheid Govt will not allow MOHARRUM by shia !!! IS all this enough to touch your ISLAMIC heart ?
Who told you Aziz means pig-head? Aziz means mighty and in Persian it means dear.
jonmc……better save your time doing something of value than writing
your point of view to explain the meaning (the apologists do that usually).
The two meaning are very clear, even to a dummy……..my question
to you was just an irony.
Intelligence and rational thinking are two different things. There are many smart people who lack reason and vice-verso. There are many smart people among Muslims but none with rational thought.
I have no doubt that Islam will not last this century. In fact I doubt it will survive another 20 years. Either Muslims will come to their senses and leave Islam, which is a possibility if we expand our area of activity from Internet into movies, or they will do the ultimate stupid act, believing in the lies of Muhammad that despite their weakness they will be victorious and will perish by tens or hundreds of millions. Let us us hope we succeed to awaken them before they commit that stupid act. In any case Islam is in its last days.
Other religions will transform. Today few Christians believe in the literal interpretation of the Genesis. Most of then believe in intelligence design. They have no choice but to agree with the evolution. Although intelligence design is absurd (I was a proponent of intelligence design when I believed in God) it is still a step in the right direction, which shows people of all faiths, except Muslims, can change their views.
In 19th century and the first half of the 20th century, many believed that all religions will die. But that did not happen. The belief in God is not going to go away any time soon. The only religion that will be gone is Islam. My only hope is that it does not take millions of lives with itself, as Nazism did.
I'm pretty sure Aziz means pighead.
Rainbow, if you use name-calling on others, you get the same done on your dear holy pig-headed prophet.
“Julia was anti-Islam and that was it. She kept within the borders of freedom of speech.”
Julia was unable to debate. He (yes it is he not she) only attacked and insulted people and spammed a lot. This made many people to dismiss this blog. Freedom of speech is important but rules of decency are to be followed. Since he is banned, the debates have improved substantially.
Eventually, people will be fed up and there will be a backlash. The police and the governments have their hands tied. The citizens will rise and punish the Muslims. Sadly we are running out of options. Muslims are not going to change. People will take the matter in their hands. The more they wait the bigger the problem will grow.
No dear! It has nothing to do with “ruh”. The reason humans are self aware and can peep into the mystery of their origin is because of the developed neocortex. Ruh (spirit) has nothing to do with it. This is proven by science. There is no room for superstition at least in this question.
The verses I quote are clear and so are the countless hadiths that you can find in the link I gave you. If you deny their meanings there are many other Muslims who understand them the correct way and practice them. Where do these Muslims get their idea that a good Muslim must kill the unbelievers?
I don’t think you understood my point. What I said is that delusional thinking of being indefeasible makes people do very stupid things which will result in their own destruction.
The very fact that Muslims have nuke will result in their death by millions. They are stupid and they have nukes. That is a deadly combination. They will kill many people but at the end they will be quashed.
No one can interpret the Quran in any peaceful way. This book is a book of hate and violence and anyone who follows it will be a danger to others.
You mean perhaps that when Muslims do "bad" things then it is attributed to Islam, but when Non-Muslims do "bad" things then is something personal.
But we can retort to you:
When Muslims do "good" things you Muslims then attribute THAT to Islam, but when Non-Muslims do "good" things then it is something personal. We can say that perhaps many of the good things Muslims do they learned from the Non-Muslims, indirectly, through some kind of influence.
I appreciate that you did it. At times we should admit we agree at least on some things here.
"Why should I acknowledge this – for WHAT purpose?
How absurd."
Listen, this could be said back to you, and all Muslims for that matter.
Here goes:
"Why should we (then) acknowledge that we understood what you tried to explain to us and the readers. With all your explanations of the fine art of logic, for instance. And move on from there. How absurd!"
"This is why creationism has NO MERIT from scientific point of view.
Hence it DOES NOT deserve equal footings with EVOLUTION
in science."
Same as with flat earth-round earth you mention TWO theories. In the time before evolution-theory started "creationism" was the norm. No one or not many even considered of rejecting this "theory" because of lack of proof and logic. Or, because people were convinced that earth must be flat (and a high Saudi Cleric still declared the earth was flat in # 1961) they concocted proof and evidence to fit their preconceived conclusion. Something that could fool or thwart people liik you, then living, who were then asking for evidence or else declaring the theory "invalid", "invented", "meaningless".
ALL that I say is that it is simply a fallacy to declare a theory false merely because the proposer did not present evidence and reason at that one time that you read that theory.
While elsewhere there might be truckloads of good evidence and logic for it.
Also in what the proposer said might be clear or hidden merit which you fail to notice, when you dismiss a theory wholesale too soon, also a logical fallacy.
Of course creationism does not deserve equal footings with evolution in science. But that confirms me, not you, because here clearly are 2 theories about same issue which compete with each other and are compared. And evolution is chosen as the best one. My way exactly.
On scrutiny, and with your own examples, flat earth and round earth, creationism and evolution, you end up with confirming me, not refuting me.
The reason I think you still to be young and inexperienced is because you seem to have still such a one-track-mind, you have this air of "I am 100 % certain of everything related to the discussions here and I cannot be wrong and the others are absolutely wrong." You are still too absolute, not yet seeing that everything is relative. In my opinion.
"No son . . . YOU abuse DIRECTLY was aimed at me.
Which of MY ALLEGED connections have been abusing you?"
Think about this. I support Julia, a counterjihadist like me. She indeed directed insulting words at you. But to whom exactly she did that should not matter. It is her words that you want me not to support, regardless to whom she directs them.
Likewise you as a Muslim can be pressured about many attitudes, words and actions of Muslims, directed against other humans, not necessarily me, and asked why you do not condemn and disavow them.
showing evidence is not hate , you pathetic looser. every evil thing in this world is going to be destroyed.
some stupid muzzies think , muslims are born out of mohammads sweat;
he is also considered perfect man. unless the muslim bastards think that rapists are perfect creation of god.
islamic son of nameless nikah prostitute , mohammad being born like a bastard is criminal is anaraya.
no two goats will lock horn if you 1.8 billion bastards are killed.
Muslims are not Japanese = they represent in every race in the world
Muslims are not Germans = they represent in every country of world
And Muslims have nukes !
And Muslims started leading and supporting in peace processes.
And Muslims started getting into right interpretation of message.
And Muslims started educating and supporting charities for community education all over world.
And all these inspired by Islamic values.
Life is 360 degree dear, so as Islam is. You narrowed your vision , perception to fuel your ambition but not everyone is blind !
Do fighting for Cause of Allah have "murdering the unbeliever is best deed" meaning ?
Isn't fighting for nation and dying for it considered higher honor ? Why not religion?
Where is that mentioned as you said just go kill unbelievers (whether they are pro or against , enemy or friend, have dispute or not ) and this is the best deed?
I don't see you are talking about any option to end Islam as you are willing to do !
Did you see any camel from Palestine claim that it should be treated like son of Hamas or just don't mingle with camel from Syria ? Did you see any camel spend time in privacy to connect with universe and start thinking rationally about self and whereabouts in universe?
Physiological aspects(hunger,sex) both animals and human have, psychological aspects(love,caring) both have……And then human start differing as human with esteem , with realization, with actualization. And this is coz of "Ruh"
Human is superior to animals as living.
In short Atheism is disconnected structure of existence on earth so as animals have.
Dear Sina ,
Do you know what happened to a Indian hindu in bonn germany?
His tongue was cut for not wanting to convert to Islam.
I am an average person I think and that makes you a person who thinks low of mankind.
In your shoes I would have a favorable opinion about me.
Julia was anti-Islam and that was it. She kept within the borders of freedom of speech.
You are a Muslim. As such you either distance yourself from other Muslims and take responsibility for that, which I have never seen you do. But still you ask me to distance myself from counterjihadists.
or you can be accused of being in leaque with them by giving them support in the form of fighting their enemies, which is what you do here.
and it does not matter that Julia was only on this site and FFI and that you claim that you have nothing to do with other Muslims.
Because you use your skills and influence to help them against their enemies. For that you are to be held accountable.
"I believe Islam will be the first religion to go. Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism will survive, but they will undergo a lot of metamorphosis."
You talk about the future of mankind in the 21st century here. So I take my leave and bring in the idea of the "Singularity" of Ray Kurzweil. What I understand of it is that every 2 years the intelligence of computer and robots doubles. Islam and Muslims will perhaps be facing these computers/ robots or so-called trans-humans, humans equipped with much artificial intelligence. I don't know but Muslims should be concerned that such fast growing artificial intelligence, outside humans or used by humans can cause much trouble for Islam. Like the chess-computer deep blue that beat the worldchampion Kasparov, computers may in future well be able to refute any and all arguments made by Muslims.
Unfortunately Jews and Christians will be under the same pressure. Perhaps Buddhists and Hindus will adapt much easier to ultra-high intelligent opposition.
And atheists at least do not worry about their tenets being refuted, they are allowed to replace them for better ones.
"BS." Aminriadh debunking, again. Why doesn't he just focus on what he does NOT DEBUNK?
"Why should I give Pipes credit?" Well, just like Ali Sina he definitely saw and warned for danger, threats to democracy, he feared a sort of "Eurabia" or civil war in Europe.
He was in defense-mode but he wanted peace between Muslims and non-Muslims; he would settle for peaceful coexistence with Muslims under democracy. Give him credit for that.
And on this website Muslims claim that when non-Muslims want peace then the Muslims should live in peace with them.
And he obviously objects to Ali Sina's approach, and you know the difference. But still you only use this difference to discredit the one side, but not to give credit to the other. In tjhis particular case, I myself in your place would not have discredited Sina, but given credit to Pipes. But that's just me.
You are more like Ali Sina then Pipes or me; you radically reject Ali Sina, just as he radically rejects Mohammed and Islam.
Look, Verbally abusing is flying around here everywhere. It is perfectly legitimate under freedom of speech, on this counterjihadistwebsite, on which, with your opposing opinions, write so bravely against the mainstream.
But I take the lesson; maybe I am indeed just garnering support (but not from Muslim-haters, only from Islam-opposers then). Perhaps that is wrong and all a person under freedom of speech should ask for indeed is fair judgement, precisely by opponents, not support, confirmation only.
I will remind myself what I write FOR; for a good democratic scientific future for mankind in the 21st century.
I suppose that I debunked your debunking. Which it was, because inevitably all your fine reasoning is used for almost exclusively debunking, which is the norm with you, the default.
But I take the lesson; I will try not to debunk your messages, but instead I will try to react more positively.
Peace please. I do not want to debunk you if I can avoid it and believe / learn as much from you as I can.
I will try to focus only on my strongpoints and forego debating on my weak points where I indeed am also weak in evidence and logic. But in my strong points I can be very strong with evidence and logic. So when you then ask for evidence I will be able to give more of it to you.
I am grateful for your efforts and the mirror you hold to me. It makes me see my own weak spots sometimes. Like you saying to watch out for being brainwashed and biased. Good. Thank you.
You tell me that absurd positions like those of David Icke "under my system" are unjustly and disastrously believed.
Basically I AM an open-minded believing person and on first hearing opinions I tend to consider their merits. I am indeed called "Naive" for this.
But when I am thinking and talking about opinions on issues I search for alternative opinions on the same issues and try to choose wisely, rejecting one of the opinions, often the one I initially believed. I am basically a "Replacer of theories".
Around me are many people much more like you, and they DISBELIEVE, like doubting Thomasses, much of what they hear and read, are not open to it, it seems to me, not trusting proposers, presenters of facts and theories, always first assuming untruth, lying even.
In my turn I call them "paranoid", "debunkers of theories". Leading to not-knowingness about issues, despite lifetimes of education and reading. And sometimes to paralysis through constant analysis.
In the past I did indeed believe many theories I now have "replaced". For example I used to believe that aliens visited earth and influenced ancient civilizations and I believed in some kind of mysterious power operating in the Bermuda triangle. But after reading books by level-headed, knowledgeable historians and researchers I "replaced" those theories with these extraordinary claims in them with better theories.
I suppose you would have rejected the extraordinary theories outright. Although, I am not sure of that, come to think of it. You know, these writers with the extraordinary claims, they too came up with plenty of evidence and reason, books full of them, replete with foto's and sketches.
But this was refuted well, in my opinion, by the more "levelheaded" researchers and so I "replaced theories".
Then there is still my contention that in my opinion you yourself are "Naive" about what Mohammed told the world. And you give Mohammed and Quran the advantage of "divine inspiration" which you deny to Ali Sina.
I think against Ali Sina and us you abuse the magnificent, beautiful, powerful art of logic, in which you excel, in the sense that you use it to debunk the anti-Islam-message, wholesale, because I never see you accepting at least parts of it.
Correction: I said the combined list is 143 names, I meant 141 names.
The comparison is based on the Arabic, not English, versions of the names.
Quite so Rainbow.
It is the "99 beautiful names of Allah".
I have 3 such lists. What I find curious is that two of them (Wiki and IslamCity) agree as to what the names are, the third list (from Harun Yaya) does not.
A combination of the three would give 143 names of Allah.
How could that happen?
Okay Rainbow, let me do this properly.
Your “quote” was: “Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them.” 2 John 1:10
I pointed out that the actual quote is: “2 John 1:10 "Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who does not bring this teaching." and further pointed out that the “teaching” referred to was that Jesus was fully human.
Thus the meaning is, in simple terms “Don't receive heretics”.
I sincerely hope that you can understand the difference.
Next you “quote”: "Shun those who disagree with your religious views.” Romans 16:17
Would you care to know what the verse, of which your source misquotes a mere fragment, actually says? “I urge you brothers to note those that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them.” Once again we can see the verse refers to “heretic teachers” within Christianity, not non-Christians as is implied by your source's rendition. Further, in the context of ancient Christianity it is an argument against schism – one that failed to be sure, but that is at the root.
Can you please explain to me how interpreting a quote with another misquote actually advances your viewpoint?
– – –
Amin (in whichever incarnation):
#1. Does the Koran have internal context? Obviously it has a degree of textual context but if that were sufficient, then why is there the branch of Islamic science called “Asbab al-Nuzul” – “the occasions, reasons, and contexts for the Revelation of the Holy Qur’an”?
#2. In one sense I will concede your point: I am defending the Bible, but only against highly tendentious mistranslation. I'm not defending its message here. Frankly I'd do as much for anyone or anything that I saw being so grossly misrepresented.
#3. Frankly I agree. Argumentum ad ignorantum is no ones exclusive fiefdom.
#4. Interesting notion. I'll take it under advisement.
" Atheism is just a pack of lies "
Atheism can never be a 'pack'.
Atheism is just one idea "rejection of belief". Just one idea.
If you're a Christian, you're Atheistic towards Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Janism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Scientology, Bahaism, Mormonism, Sikhism. Similarly a muslim is Atheistic towards all religions but Islam. We Atheists take just one step more. We reject 'all' religions.
Aminriadh:
“THIS site is ABOUT SINA.
Who is NOTHING more than a hate-monger.
Who is BEYOND reason. ”
But I (Aminriadh) can’t live without it. In fact I spend all my time on this site, except when I am sleeping or when I am out collecting my “Benefits” from the British government.
Fine Tuning argument is just a misunderstanding/misinterpretation of Scientific work.
ID proponents use Roger Penrose's work on probability of life in a Random Universe to plead for Intelligent Design.That attempt is self-defeating because Penrose himself is an Atheist. A brilliant Scientist as him wouldn't put forward an argument that digs his own grave.
Suppose we conceive of a Universe. It will have certain properties anyway. If those properties don't sustain the Universe, it'll collapse and there'll be no intelligent life to calculate the probabilities. Similarly if in another possible Universe, there is no planet that is at a perfect distance from it's Sun to support intelligent life -again there is no one to calculate these probabilities. Regardless of 'how' intelligent life is created, or 'who' creates it, if there is Intelligent life they'll always come up with probabilities that are insignificantly small. That doesn't imply the existence of an Intelligent mind behind all this. The fact that we exist, renders the question of the probability of our existence mute.
Forces aren't here by accident. Every conceivable Universe is bound to have at least one property. Our Universe has n properties and we are trying to find out exactly what they are.
"So what you think other options available to end Islam like mass murdering all Muslims, evoking and planting sectarian violence in Islam, monetary luring or anything else?"
Excellent question,and I hope you asked it genuinely and not just for the heck of it.
Either way,I will answer it.
I want you to understand that I'm not criticizing 'all' muslims,I'm criticizing Islam and muslims who commit heinous acts inspired by Islam.There are many among those who are counted as muslims who have never read the Quran.
I have spoken to a such people who are reasonably well to do, very devout, but have only read a few parts of the Quran due to the language barrier.They mostly depend on those Imams for Islamic knowledge. And while there are sane among Imams,most of them have political interest,and they mislead common people often incite violence through inculcating religious fanaticism. Such Imams need to be monitored on a regular basis and any such attempt to instigate people should be dealt with sternly.
Next are religious apologists. Most of these are people of little knowledge on anything outside Quran, and even about Quran. Even the Islamic knowledge of people so celebrated as Zakir Naik is very questionable. These people very much like Imams use rhetoric to fuel religious chauvinism and cause people of various faiths to move away from each other. Instead of constructive discussion they engage in confrontational debates with people of other faiths which increases polarization in society, eventually leading to communal disharmony.
Third is the "no revision" policy of Islam. Muslims have to realize that it's a book written in completely different times and there are parts of the book which are incompatible with a progressive society. This aspect can't be improved by non-muslims but educated muslim youth themselves. The way towards this is proper education, not madrassa education. Education which encourages questioning of established principles, which encourages rationality, encourages scientific temper.Science and Technology has brought us where we are, and it's Science which will carry us forward, so that we as a species can survive even after the Sun runs out. So even if nature plans to kill us all one day, we put up a decent fight. So that when we take our last breath, we can say proudly that we as humans did the best we could to make the World a better place than it was before we came.
Atheism is not a religion…….it is a denial to a claim.
"The best option that I am working on is to show the truth about Muhammad and wean Muslims from this lie."
How can YOU show the truth . . .when it has been and being shown about YOU that you are fundamentally – DISHONEST?
Look at how you are "humiliated" time and time again in these comment sections. . .
When you cannot answer.
You start lying.
So what truth?
– – –
"If this fails then the alternative becomes inevitable. Muslims will continue there plans of expatiation and people of the world will resist. Muslims then will escalate their jihad and maybe use nuclear bombs. "
Pockets of Muslims have fought . . . where do you see masses of Muslims fighting?
Strangely – it is USA that gets about with its allies .. . . a cause that you champion.
– – –
"Why are you reluctant to see this plain fact? "
Oh the absurdity of the question – in ever respect!
– – –
" haven't we shown you enough evidence from the Quran and hadith?"
Obviously NOT. As I have REPEATEDLY shown you lie OPENLY about Quran.
What do you do in return?
Simply insult people?
Why?
– – –
"Don't you listen to the sermons in the mosques and the rabid hate mongering of the imams? They are on youtube. "
Where? How do you know whom we listen to?
Sometimes, some people say things that leave me speechless. Do you really
believe your first sentence? Where do such people fit, in what group of
creatures or things? So, according to your faith, only humans have souls
and have after life, while the animals are merely things, without souls,
without feelings, without intelligence.
Even a child in the West knows that animals have feelings and "souls",
and science proved that some animals are more intelligent than humans.
I don't know what to say……you should be either disappointed or ashamed.
"Why Islam that is like excrement compared to other religions? "
According to you . . . whose rationality and lack of reasoning one questions.
You have deep hatred for Islam and Muslims. Hence comprising your morals and your ability to reason.
That is why DESPITE evidence – you stick to your hate mongering views.
And when you are UNABLE to answer . . . you make up lies about people.
Not clever!
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, I'm really glad to know that the laws of physics have finally convinced you to believe that the forces of the universe could not have come to be by accident afterall. This means to say that you do agree with me that there is an awesome invisible Lawmaker Who established all the laws of the Universe! I'm so happy to know that you have come to the final realization that Atheism is just a pack of lies. Don't you agree with me that the Big Bang Theory and the Evolution Theory were lies afterall? 🙂
99 Names of God, not of Mohammad. If you want to have your share
in a discussion, learn something about the subject first.
Talking about the lack of scholarship……eh
My apologies…….Mohammad never killed children
or infants.
As OBVIOUSLY in deep hatred of Islam and Muslims . . .of course you will say things like that.
But beyond your personal hatred . . . .any other basis – or is that it?
– – –
"My real passion is not fighting against Islam. It is physics."
All Evidence points out otherwise. On that basis – I don't believe this.
"Isn't this a superfluous question?"
NO . . . and if you notice.
You didn't bother to answer . . . but found irrelevant excuse and changed the topic and focus.
– – –
"Do you not read what Ali Sina says? Do you not understand what Ali Sina accuses Daniel Pipes of? You keep saying Pipes distanced himself from Sina, but you don't acknowledge why and you don't appreciate it at all. You only use it to discredit Ali Sina, but not to give Pipes credit. Yet more proof of your negative attitude. "
BS.
Why should I give Pipes credit?
What has THAT got to do with anything?
– – –
Pipes has HIS OWN site.
– – –
"Pipes says only radical islam is the enemy and problem, whereas Sina says it is all of Islam that is the enemy and problem. Why can't you at least acknowledge what you read?"
Why should I acknowledge this – for WHAT purpose?
How absurd.
– –
"Now you create the impression that you are unwilling to at least understand Islam's different opponents and to move one inch. "
Doh!
THis YOU being meaninglessly dishonest.
Of course SIna is different from Pipes.
Pipes has some credential as proper academic. Sina hasn't.
– – –
The level Pipes argues at is FAR above Sina's.
And SO is his level of scholarship.
– – –
THIS site is ABOUT SINA.
Who is NOTHING more than a hate-monger.
Who is BEYOND reason.
All this list is found on the net – if you do a quick search . . . here is the thing.
You do NOT know about the credibility of any of these claims – and where they came from and are they likely to be true.
As I will expose from you your book – you are dishonest in such way. And this is leads to such poor scholarship from you.
– – –
"In 1911 Turkey established gun control and from 1915 to 1917, 1,5 million Armenians residing in Turkey were rounded up and exterminated by the Muslim government in Turkey."
Here gun control would NOT have made single bit of difference.
As I pointed out – this atrocity would STILL have happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide#Ev…
A read perhaps . . . then you will find
– – –
"In 1938 Germany established gun control and from 1939 to 1945, 30 million Jews and others were rounded up and exterminated."
Jews were about 6 million – justify the other 24 million.
In case of Jews – sadly – Gun possession would have done nothing much.
As pointed out . . . Hitler would STILL have come in power. And done what he liked.
His reasons of Gun Control were far different than in stable country.
What has else USA to be fear?
– – –
"China established gun control in 1935 and from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were rounded up and exterminated. "
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/chin…
Have a read!
I don't know WHERE the figures came from – but are LIKELY to be inaccurate. . .
Consider and THINK for a minute . . .
China was putting away political dissident BEFORE gun control too. What difference can guns make?
They weren't killing masses of helpless here and there. . . but one person here, five there, and etc.
What would have guns done.
– – –
Next time make decent argument.
Rather than pasting up – one of these lists that are found on the net – doing rounds. . .
= = =
"Although guns in the hands of the ordinary people will result in tragic casualties, it is nowhere near the number of people that a despotic government can exterminate when people are left defenseless and unarmed. "
I am with Gandhi on this one.
Mass civil unrest . . .
Maybe you should give the Partition of India a read.
Honesty – that is beyond you. Yes Muslims are to blame . . . we know.
But that is NOT what is being asked.
– – –
Let us face it: each of those three religions is working hard to
be in power…….none of them is better than the other, they
are all EQUAL, simply because their origin is the same tree.
(specially Islam and Judaism..hardly find a difference).
You always say that you are not a believer, and I personally
believe you. Being unbeliever is one thing, and working for
a certain party or religion is another thing. This what they all
call……..business. So, you are involved in politics somehow,
as for myself, my chances in politics is zero.
You cannot compare a leader to another. Each of them is an
individual. Talking about genocide, can you tell me in what
way Bush is better than Mohammad? Wasn't he the cause
of the death of millions of innocent people including children
and infants?
The dialogue started to be very boring, coz you repeat the same
things over and over again, as if you are hypnotized.
Is Islam really sheer evil? what do you call the command of
the quran to take good care of the orphans? tending the sick?
feeding the hungry? allocating a certain amount of the income for
the poor?…..etc…etc. Muslims: A,B,C,D…..all of them allocate
a persentage of their income and give it to the needy, and not
to the government or to the leaders of the religion. I know many
Muslims who donate to poor families living in their area. They
give the money hand in hand to those families and not through
the religious leaders (the crooks). If you read the quran, it would
not be possible to miss these rules, but you decided to read
and momorize the negative part of it. I am certain that you read
the OT & the NT, and you know very well the source from which
Mohammad got his principles.
I believe Islam will be the first religion to go. Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism will survive, but they will undergo a lot of metamorphosis.
I don’t think the belief in God will disappear. This God that people worship will be forgotten but there is too much fine tuning the the laws of physics to dismiss an intelligent creator yet. My real passion is not fighting against Islam. It is physics. The more I learn about the universe the more I am inclined to believe the forces of the universe could not have come to be by accident. I just can’t believe in the god of religions. That is why I call myself an atheist.
"If you are going to pester me with this AD NAUSEAM, then I think we should PESTER you with your connections and whom you support ALSO. "
See – +you are FOND of this . . .flinging lying fallacies at me!
No son . . . YOU abuse DIRECTLY was aimed at me.
Which of MY ALLEGED connections have been abusing you?
– – –
"then you either are in league with oppressing "bad" Muslims, or you are forced to condemn at least some Muslims in at least some of their doctrine and actions (done by them because of doctrine which is explicitly said by themselves). "
Are you FOR serious?
Of course I condemn abhorrent actions by Muslims.
– – –
"And Muslims visiting here would see that too and they would very possibly PESTER YOU with it and you will not like that and fear that. "
Rather that apologising . . . for verbally abusing me by supporting troll.
THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE!
And attempt to build imaginary connections of mine that are having a go at you!
Absurd?
– – –
"So by all means let us compare our alliances, our open condemnations and disavowals of people (when you obviously implicitly exhort me to condemn and disavow Julia) and let us BOTH be held accountable for them. "
Go right ahead . . .
– – –
See this is the exact reason . . you peace making is so false and a sham!
You are DISHONEST.
"but you do not do it all the time and cannot. and I do it many a time too, and search for truth and J. Stillwater, and Ali Sina, they do it too, but they get nowhere with you either. so what is the point? "
A nice company! A good group of fundamentally untruthful people.
I can say WITH justification – Sina is a liar – as matter of fact.
When he has NOT been able to answer me . . . He has started to spread DIRTY LIES about me.
How pathetic.
Watch out for the grave i have prepared for his book:
http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/
– – –
"These conclusions are worthless when reached unjustly. and wrong conclusions impair your credibility. "
Try to do a bit of learning – rather than CLAIMING you are learned man . .
Stop the pretense and get a good book – on how to reason.
Will help.
– – –
Your position is fundamentally flawed.
I have shown it several comments – and I cannot do that every time.
– – –
How are opinions formed?
And what are they?
"In general, an opinion is a belief about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e., it is based on that which is less than absolutely certain, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts."
Wiki
Did you get that?
An interpretation of facts?
Not making thing up from thin air.
– – –
If one acquires an opinion they MUST have picked up the knowledge from somewhere . . .
And should be able to relate it.
Else they invented it.
– – –
Consider:
David Icke – and the claim that British Monarchy are Reptilian Creatures.
Near you . . . one has to produce contrary opinion and leave it at that.
See the absurdity!
Nope . . .
Icke has to PRODUCE Evidence.
Which he hasn't.
– – –
But he is fairly popular . . . apparently he can fill the Wembley Arena – NO mean feat!
“Atheists can’t unite together to do anything noticeable against a belief system.”
And why do we need to dos such thing? That is not our goal at all. We believe in freedom of belief and want everyone have that freedom. I have no desire to fight against any belief. My fight against Islam is not because it is a religion but because it is an ideology of hate and domination.
“I am not little bit worried about coalition against Islam. I am certain Islam will be only and last religion on earth.”
It is their blind certainty that worries me. The Japanese had this certainty that Japan will never be defeated. It tool two nuclear bombs to wake them up. The Germans had this same certainty that the victory will be theirs. We all saw what happened to them. The reason I am tirelessly working to wake Muslims up is to avoid a similar fate. This time could be even worse because the weapons of mass destruction are far more lethal.
so do i.. there is little discussion only denial, blame and preaching by our muslim friends
Dearest . . .YOU were the one who justified full force of Julia's absurd abuse. . .
Now – if YOU were in my shoes – what opinion would you have about your own-self.
– – –
I don't think you are a decent person.
Or fair. . .
No worries . . . .
Just because you stick a few . . . er smileys – it doesn't make it funny.
In fact – if YOU could respond – YOU would have.
– – –
Actually the ABOVE is a lie.
And a logical fallacy to.
it wasn't YOU was it.
– – –
And I amke a perfectly reasonable point. . . .
A TOP LOGICIAN . . . doesn't chest beat . . .
But gets on with the job. . . . of exposing me.
But this:
"As a Professor of Logic at a top US university, I must say that you would get a big fat "F" (for Failure, in case you don't know how our system works) in my classes."
– – –
See her is what you say:
"Another self-attesting claim.Go on,it's amusing! "
But on the same basis . . .
"We have some funny moments here because of you Amin, thanks for those "
So is this.
So before flinging this poor accusation at me . . . you should have thought it through.
– – –
Also it is dishonest. . .
Because arriving at this conclusion:
"Hence you resorted to this lie. Which I have successfully exposed"
I gave reasons.
Which you clearly bypassed . . . in order to be amusing. This too is form of a fallacy.
– – –
See – I AM SMART and intelligent.
It is the only claim i tend to make . . . not pretend to be professor of this and that!
Although I am well educated.
O you who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment?
That you believe in Allah and His Messenger and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives… (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow and pleasant dwellings in Gardens of Eternity ( ‘Adn Paradise)-that is indeed the great success. (Q.6 1 :10-12).
Those who believe say: “Why is not a Surah (Chapter the Qur’an) sent down (for us)?” But when a decisive Surah (explaining and ordering things) is sent down, and fighting (Jihad-holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is mentioned (i.e. ordained) therein, you will see those in whose hearts there is a disease (of hypocrisy) looking at you with a look of one fainting to death. But it was better for them. (V.47:20).
Narrated Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah’s Apostle and said, “Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward).” He replied, “I do not find such a deed.” (Bukhari, vol. 4, bk. 52, no. 44)
For more you can check this site. http://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/18
"Amin, saying 'SON, SONNY' to others. Yet still the young radical, hothead. "
Actually you have no IDEA of my age . . .
This dishonest of you to create such impression .. .which you have done before . . .
For example calling me the sword of Islam.
See – DISHONEST . . . purposefully conjuring up NEGATIVE images.
Well Stalin's love child . . . .hop along.
– – –
"Yes! we are different! But you make peace with your enemies, not with your friends. With them you already have peace. "
Doh! Peace doesn't come free. . . "negotiations" and etc.
For example . . . . do you see the error of such verbal abuse and why it is WRONG?
And how about apologizing if you do.
– – –
Else when the NEXT roll comes along trying to abuse . . . you will be supporting them.
Look how many people YOU tried to build up against me?
Where are they?
– – –
Over praises and what not . . . and vile comments . . . but all came to nothing.
And now you are seeking "peace"
– – –
Nah . . . things like respect is EARNED – no matter how grudgingly. . .
After your BEHAVIOUR!
You got a lot of ground to make up.
"But it ain't so. Timothy McVeigh was not a Christian and those Christians who commit terrorism do not follow Christianity. "
So why are YOU defend Christianity?
Actually reading the literature of how Christianity used to define and implement "Holy War" would reveal Bible was used for justification.
– – –
" There is absolutely no exhortation to murder in the NT."
There is . . .I pointed it out. Also – Christians fully believe OT . . . and there is plenty in there.
– – –
"ON the other hand millions of Muslims are engaged in jihad"
Where?
– – –
"including Muslim Man who seems to be a decent person finances the Islamic terrorism every time he paid his zakat and feels pious by doing so"
Once more . . . you have NEVER given a single shred of evidence. Simply claims.
– – –
"I don't believe in any religion. But here is a thing called fairness which I try to adhere to and you don't. All religions are a mixture of good and bad. Islam is sheer evil. All religions are man made. Islam is the invention of a psychopath. That is the main difference. "
No – you have DEEP hatred for Islam/Muslims – hence you judge us and other by different standards.
This is evident by your defence of Christianity.
It is opposite of fairness.
Despite – evidence put to you . . . which YOU ARE NOT ABLE to counter. . .
You maintain such lies.
– – –
"Similarly it is unethical to equate Mohammad to Jesus, Buddha or Zoroaster. Muhammad should be compared to Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson and Joseph Koni. "
See fundamentally dishonest . . NO reason given either.
Simply claims.
By what measure do you analogize between
"Abrahan Lincoln or even Ronald Reagan with Hitler and Stalin. "
to
" Mohammad to Jesus, Buddha or Zoroaster. Muhammad should be compared to Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson and Joseph Koni"
There has to be a reason . . .which you do not give.
Hence this creates false and deceptive impressions. Which is fallacious logic.
I urge you to submit a sample of your argumentation to any tenured Professor of Logic at an accredited [Western] university for his/her perusal. If you truly believe yourself to be "smart", avail yourself of the opportunity to improve your skills by enrolling in a class or soliciting the materials I indicated below. Your "skills" at reasoning and argumentation are woefully inadequate; they lead me to believe that you are perhaps an inexperienced teenager. In any case, by Modern Western standards, you are currently embarrassing yourself tremendously by your wild , inaccurate and unsubstantiated claims, your continuous boasting, evasion and obfuscation, and your use of circular reasoning and logical fallacies.
I have no quarrel with your religion. I am here merely at the request of one of my students who appropriately spotted many of the innumerable flaws in your presentations. Do yourself and your co-religionists a favor – take the time and effort to learn first and then engage others, if you truly have a desire to "win" an argument or a debate. Or you might try dialectic. (Look it up.) That, I fear, is so far beyond you at this point that you'll need many more additional resource materials and classes to be up to the task.
Good luck. If you truly desire to master this skill, it is within your reach. It is only a matter of time and dedication.
“When it comes to every existence of being on earth Atheism is life of an animal which ends with dead body.”
If you don’t like atheism there are several religions to choose from. Why do you have to pick the worst? If you are hungry you go to the fridge and grab a fruit or a snack. Will you go to toilet to dig some excrement? No you won’t. Similarly if you want religion choose one that is to your liking. Why Islam that is like excrement compared to other religions?
No son . . . this is to garner support form Muslim Haters.
YOU ARE NOT ASKING FOR FAIR JUDGEMENT.
You who were so forward in verbally abusing me! Not a chance.
Here is WHY you are so dishonest . . . IN the above comment I point out your mistaken understanding.
And you say:
". Just the usual debunking-denial-dismissal. It is your DEFAULT answer, so why bother? "
Doh!
See – you are LYING and caught read handed.
What you accuse me of falsely – you are clearly doing it yourself.
As MY COMMENT points out your mistake.
– – –
“So what you think other options available to end Islam like mass murdering all Muslims, evoking and planting sectarian violence in Islam, monetary luring or anything else?”
If you had paid attention you would have gotten your answer a long time ago. The best option that I am working on is to show the truth about Muhammad and wean Muslims from this lie. If this fails then the alternative becomes inevitable. Muslims will continue there plans of expatiation and people of the world will resist. Muslims then will escalate their jihad and maybe use nuclear bombs. Then the reaction will be mean mass extermination of millions of Muslims. That is a scenario no one wants to happen so I am doing something about it now before it is too late. Only a fool can afford to ignore it. Most people are ignoring it. That is very stupid.
I am not evoking sectarianism. It was Muhammad who did it and it is Muslims who are advancing it. Why are you reluctant to see this plain fact? haven’t we shown you enough evidence from the Quran and hadith? Don’t you listen to the sermons in the mosques and the rabid hate mongering of the imams? They are on youtube.
"No, there should be put up an alternative opinion, on the same issue. Then competition and comparing between the 2 opinions, mustering evidence and reason for both opinions by opponents. Then the reader, the jury decides. "
But that is COMPLETELY wrong according to the Scholars. . . of various field – logic, sciences philosophy.
This is SIMPLY your thinking and nothing more.
And it is wrong.
This is why we have things like the Scientific Method.
– – –
When someone comes with new Idea or Theory – they HAVE to provide evidence and/or reasoning.
Just because someone claims a theory it doesn't AUTOMATICALLY deserve credibility. . .
Consider David Icke – and his opinion that the British Monarch Family are Reptilians.
Has he got ANY proof?
Not a shred of evidence.
Under your system – such loonies would have credibility – HENCE why evidence is so important.
– – –
What you claim is completely 100% wrong.
Else – who else agrees with what you say?
Name them.
– – –
This is why creationism has NO MERIT from scientific point of view.
Hence it DOES NOT deserve equal footings with EVOLUTION
in science.
What you claim is simply ABSURD.
– – –
You repeat this OFTEN . . . .
Now for once go and give it a serious thought.
Explore it a bit. . .
THEN answer.
– – –
"But if no one answers him effectively he will WIN by default! Then there will be the ONE opinion, not competing, not being compared with a rival opinion."
You have NOT understood . . .
Such claims loose – when one simply asks for evidence . . . .and the person is NOT able to provide.
It is NOT just me saying this.
And – it is not just evidence but reasoning. Learn the difference between the two.
– – –
"In the quick stream of conversation everywhere, on TV, internet, newspapers etc. and especially on Twitter, with it's short messages, this One-opinion-on-issues happens all the time. And it is OK."
It NEVER EVER – OK
Who says its OK – besides YOU!
The very notion is absurd.
– – –
"But responders to opinions/ claims can win easily by coming up with a rival opinion/ claim on same issues and THEN provide evidence and reason."
See this WHY when you fling accusations of logical fallacies at me – I point out you don't really understand them.
You just want to appear clever by throwing accusations.
Burden of proof is on the claimant. End of.
– – –
"Aziz" means dear
I know you have been trying hard to equate Christianity and other religions to Islam and paint all of them with a wide brush. But it ain’t so. Timothy McVeigh was not a Christian and those Christians who commit terrorism do not follow Christianity. There is absolutely no exhortation to murder in the NT. ON the other hand millions of Muslims are engaged in jihad and admired their jihads and virtually all of them, including Muslim Man who seems to be a decent person finances the Islamic terrorism every time he paid his zakat and feels pious by doing so.
I don’t believe in any religion. But here is a thing called fairness which I try to adhere to and you don’t. All religions are a mixture of good and bad. Islam is sheer evil. All religions are man made. Islam is the invention of a psychopath. That is the main difference.
Let me make an example. Everyone says and we all agree that politics is a dirty business. It is a corrupt world and if you are not corrupt you have little chance to survive in politics. However, it would be very unfair to compare Abrahan Lincoln or even Ronald Reagan with Hitler and Stalin. Similarly it is unethical to equate Mohammad to Jesus, Buddha or Zoroaster. Muhammad should be compared to Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson and Joseph Koni.
"I can safely say – I abhor your morality and what you stand for. It is dangerous and deceptive. And morally lacking. I am glad we are different!"
Amin, saying 'SON, SONNY' to others. Yet still the young radical, hothead.
Yes! we are different! But you make peace with your enemies, not with your friends. With them you already have peace.
Oops, this was a reply to Rainbow in the above thread where he said to me "Listen to me, pig-head, all what I wanted to say is".
Rainbow, I'm looking for a translation of one of Muhammad's 99 names, 'Aziz'. Is 'pighead' the correct translation?
When it comes to every existence of being on earth Atheism is life of an animal which ends with dead body.
So what you think other options available to end Islam like mass murdering all Muslims, evoking and planting sectarian violence in Islam, monetary luring or anything else?
1- I know that you have said it and repeated it a "gazillion" times, but
what you said is that you are after Islam only because it is the only
evil religion, and I am trying to prove to you that other religions are
evil too. You read only half of what I said. I will repeat what I said again:
Just admit it, and tell us that you are after Islam only even if the other
religions as evil or worse.
2- Of course I hear it in the news all the times, there are certainly
Christian Terrorist…..I think the terrorist who was after the bombing'
in Oklahoma was a Christian, so was the terrorist in Oslo…….just
examples. The majority of the Christians don't go by their book
literally, also the majority of the Muslims don't do everything their
book says. Only small groups of fanatics from both sides, and those
are the terrorits. If every Christian and every Muslim obey blindly
their books, the human race will be an endangered species. (maybe
it will be better for all).
Which verse say "best deed is murdering the unbelievers" in Qur'an ?
It is my hope that readers will see that this is NOTHING NEW from you either.
"You know full well I am smart and YOU are impressed!"
Yes Aminriadh, you are smart and I AM impressed by you. I am not ashamed to admit it, for myself.
Of course ……… that does not mean that …….. you know.
But I don't want to spoil the positive comment.
Perhaps compliments annoy you more than denial and contempt from opponents.
Thanks Joe. Yes, I saw that video of Bill Warner too and I think it was great! I enjoy your posts and I think you at times show good wisdom and love. And that is important because our opponents keep accusing us of hatemongering.
I'm so happy we are allies. My worry of course is that we differ from each other as we are Darwinist and Christian. But more important it is that we are both firmly pro-democratic and we both know that Islam, at least in part, presents us with problems and opposition to Democracy worldwide (not in all countries, but in most). We both realise, I think, that WE personally are not important, but that the future of mankind is important.
In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. Between 1929 and 1953 about 20 million citizens were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911 Turkey established gun control and from 1915 to 1917, 1,5 million Armenians residing in Turkey were rounded up and exterminated by the Muslim government in Turkey.
In 1938 Germany established gun control and from 1939 to 1945, 30 million Jews and others were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935 and from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. Between 1970 to 1979, 300,000 Christians were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1,000,000 educated people were rounded up and exterminated by Pol Pot.
Although guns in the hands of the ordinary people will result in tragic casualties, it is nowhere near the number of people that a despotic government can exterminate when people are left defenseless and unarmed.
"You should have THOUGHT about that – before your ABSURD and MORALLY BANKRUPT support of the troll Julia. "
If you are going to pester me with this AD NAUSEAM, then I think we should PESTER you with your connections and whom you support ALSO.
Because that is a weak spot of you more than it is of me. Because when we start to really pressure you who you support and won't contradict or stand up to, then you either are in league with oppressing "bad" Muslims, or you are forced to condemn at least some Muslims in at least some of their doctrine and actions (done by them because of doctrine which is explicitly said by themselves).
And Muslims visiting here would see that too and they would very possibly PESTER YOU with it and you will not like that and fear that.
So by all means let us compare our alliances, our open condemnations and disavowals of people (when you obviously implicitly exhort me to condemn and disavow Julia) and let us BOTH be held accountable for them.
Yes he thought you were attacking Christianity and start behaving like christian apologist instead you were pointing a source.
Yes, I do notice these things. You saying not only A (opinion-claim), but also B (Reason).
but you do not do it all the time and cannot. and I do it many a time too, and search for truth and J. Stillwater, and Ali Sina, they do it too, but they get nowhere with you either. so what is the point?
When I do not do it and you do it in response; points for you, you win. Why is that not enough for you? Why do have to go to the fallacies of declaring something false without ground, not recognizing merits when they are present in comments/ hence concluding that the proposer is lying and dishonest?
These conclusions are worthless when reached unjustly. and wrong conclusions impair your credibility.
I am not little bit worried about coalition against Islam. I am certain Islam will be only and last religion on earth.This is simply based on belief system. Christians, Hindus etc already destroying their own faith by mocking , insulting. Atheists can't unite together to do anything noticeable against a belief system.
I said counter strike from Islamists to other faiths, their understandings, scriptures is natural and justified response. Its just strategical responding to strategy against Islam. Truth is already twisted diplomatically so your blame "Muslims lie and twist the writings of other faiths to prove their point" is rejected.
Do you see any Hindus, Buddhists, Christians or Jews engaging in so much terrorism? Can you show me a few verses from the scriptures of these religions telling their followers that the best deed is murdering the unbelievers? If not, then maybe Islam is indeed the worse religion.
______________
“Just admit it, and tell us that you are after Islam only ”
I have said it from day one and repeated it a gazillion times. Here is one more time just for you. I am not after any religion. I am not against faith. I am against hate and the reason I want to get rid of Islam is because it promotes hatred of fellow humans, it divides mankind into two camps and it encourages violence and terrorism.
I am not interested in religion and theology. To each his own faith. My interest is to eliminate what I consider to be the biggest cause of hate. Hundreds of millions of people were murdered by Muslims and the number is growing. This insanity must end. The only way it can end is when Muslims realize Muhammad was not a prophet of God but a bloody psychopath cult leader.
"Sina's focus is on Islam only"
One religion less is still good.However I'm certain that the first religion to go should be Islam.
Why?Christianity's fangs were uprooted by its own long back.Hinduism is so diverse,no two followers of it agree with each other.Most of Buddhism is leashed under Communist chains.
So these religions can't have strong negative impacts and will die away with time.The decay is visible.
My prediction is that in the future there will be two dominant theological groups :- Islam and Atheism/non-believers.The former group will consist of less intelligent,less educated,irrational,anti-progress vandals and the latter will have rationalists who will run the progressive parts of the world.So Islam's political clout should be worked on right now so that it's never that way.And that political clout is based on irrational faith.
"You know full well I am smart and YOU are impressed! "
LOL
We have some funny moments here because of you Amin, thanks for those 🙂
"Hence you resorted to this lie. Which I have successfully exposed"
"Successfully exposed"? 🙂 🙂 LOL again
Another self-attesting claim.Go on,it's amusing!
Well, it has been 3 hours since I asked Mr (.) to explain to you,
jonmc, what he meant….but he did not bother, and I feel guilty
to leave you in the dark.
Mr (.) meant: those funny quotes you wrote, explain that you
did NOT understand the opponent side.
Got that now? I do not think that I can depend on your help
with my homework…..you are very slow in understanding.
(.) correct me if I am wrong
"So what exactly is Sina proven right?"
Isn't this a superfluous question? Isn't it obvious? Is this question not obviously meant to be used to DEBUNK?
Do you not read what Ali Sina says? Do you not understand what Ali Sina accuses Daniel Pipes of? You keep saying Pipes distanced himself from Sina, but you don't acknowledge why and you don't appreciate it at all. You only use it to discredit Ali Sina, but not to give Pipes credit. Yet more proof of your negative attitude.
Pipes says only radical islam is the enemy and problem, whereas Sina says it is all of Islam that is the enemy and problem. Why can't you at least acknowledge what you read? and move on from there? Now you create the impression that you are unwilling to at least understand Islam's different opponents and to move one inch. With THAT attitude YOU prove Sina right.
to me this is a very important issue, about the difference between Sina and Pipes.
"as Pipes wishes to see end of Islam . . . So why would any sane Muslim align with him?"
I don't Pipes wishes to see the end of Islam, but anyway, by the same token Muslims want to see universal supremacy of Islam.
But in a situation where there are many different religions among mankind the goal should be peace and harmony and peaceful coexistence, with equal rights under the law, perhaps not in all countries, but preferably in most countries.
And both Sina and Pipes want that.
And only for that Ali Sina wants to see the end of Islam. because he judges Muslims to be supremacist in majority, and he despaires of Muslims in majority to change significantly, and still be Muslims. He has positive goals and for them he also has negative goals.
But Pipes thinks Muslims can evolve, in the majority, and still be Muslims, to an attitude of peaceful coexistence, in peace and harmony.
If Muslims and the Islam-apologists are serious that they too, just like Pipes, and even Sina, only want to live in peaceful coexistence, with equal rights under the law, in peace and harmony, all around the world, while they still remain Muslims, then why would they NOT appreciate Pipes and at least try to move in his direction, thereby proving Ali Sina wrong? In proportion to their finding common ground with Pipes and NOT rejecting him wholesale, in the same way as Ali Sina, as if the two were just as bad? from the viewpoint of Muslims?
Nothing new from you either. Just the usual debunking-denial-dismissal. It is your DEFAULT answer, so why bother? I already knew this when I sent the message.
Having said that …..
about the flat earth-opinion. And a person not being able to give any evidence or reason for this opinion. I agree that it will have no MERIT.
But don't you see that this opinion was challenged in time by ANOTHER opinion, a SECOND opinion on the same issue? That the earth was NOT FLAT BUT ROUND!!!
This I point out to you so often; You should not focus on ONE opinion only and try to determine whether it is true or false, in your case, for the vast majority of your posts, false.
No, there should be put up an alternative opinion, on the same issue. Then competition and comparing between the 2 opinions, mustering evidence and reason for both opinions by opponents. Then the reader, the jury decides.
You say a person with a valid opinion not able to provide evidence/ reasoning will lose "the debate" by default. But if no one answers him effectively he will WIN by default! Then there will be the ONE opinion, not competing, not being compared with a rival opinion.
In the quick stream of conversation everywhere, on TV, internet, newspapers etc. and especially on Twitter, with it's short messages, this One-opinion-on-issues happens all the time. And it is OK. Even you once said that it is possible to underpin all opinions with enough evidence and reason all the time. And I say it is NOT a good idea to discourage people presenting their opinions, saying; you cannot say A, unless you say B and C too. A being their opinion, B and C evidence and reason (and enough of it).
But responders to opinions/ claims can win easily by coming up with a rival opinion/ claim on same issues and THEN provide evidence and reason. And the proposer of the opinion can do the same in return and so on.
Towards awareness and knowledge of higher, broader truth for all speaking and listening about the 2 (or more) opinions.
"It is my fondest hope that you and I someday will find common ground and agree on some things. "
Given the amount of your "verbal abuse" and its justification . . . .your lying and false allegations – which you repeat often. There is NOT much chance of that.
I can safely say – I abhor your morality and what you stand for. It is dangerous and deceptive. And morally lacking. I am glad we are different!
– – –
" And that counterjihadists and Islam-apologists like me and you will proceed to genuine meaningfull resolution of their conflict. "
You should have THOUGHT about that – before your ABSURD and MORALLY BANKRUPT support of the troll Julia.
– – –
" do feel that somehow the fierce debates taking place here, resulting most of the time in stalemate in my opinion"
Doh! You fall on your OWN sword . . . As you say – YOU are er . . . "biased"
And hence CANNOT decide if they are "stalemates" you loss and my victory or vice-versa.
Where has "let the reader decide" gone now?
See – this is why I find you dishonest.
Notice – I have given MY REASON as to your dishonesty – rather than flinging an insults.
Noticed the difference?
– – –
It is my fondest hope that you and I someday will find common ground and agree on some things. Even to disagree respectfully. And that counterjihadists and Islam-apologists like me and you will proceed to genuine meaningfull resolution of their conflict.
i do feel that somehow the fierce debates taking place here, resulting most of the time in stalemate in my opinion, will also result in eliminating on both side the more stupid, more coercive arguments and make both counterjihadists and Islam-apologists and also some readers go to a higher level of awareness and understanding about Islam and it's competing alternatives.
What did I say . . .
Sina – you have sold your soul. You undermine your own credibility with such garbage.
Piers Morgan's picture was shown in that video. . . .
And that is "Freedom of Speech" for you. Asking him to be deported. THat is the Right Wing.!
– – –
"The US is being overtaken by dictatorship as we speak. "
Why don't you explain how – rather than meaninglessly saying it. Oh – it is your hate for Obama.
– – –
"Until now I was against gun ownership. Now I am thinking maybe it is a bad thing but the alternative can be worse."
I don't believe you.
– – –
"Where people are armed governments can't turn the country into dictatorship. "
WRONG!
Which country? Hitler ONLY started to take away guns – AFTER he came to power.
So what did GUNS do?
Thing for a minute . . . The supporters of dictator would need guns to. If there are less to go around – there are less to go around for everyone.
– – –
Successful dictators can come through with means of Democracy and change system, monarchy, martial law. . . . or coups.
Guns have nothing to do with it.
– – –
"You can easily subdue a nation that is unarmed, but try to do that to one that is armed. "
Would you like examples . . . how many?
Hitler subdued his nation with democracy. . .
Robert Mugabe – democracy
Saddam Hussein – Coup.
Abdullah of Saudi Arabia – Democracy.
– – –
In case of USA – aren't we speaking about "civilised" country. Or is there a problem in the paradise.
You cannot mislead young or old Muslims or non-Muslim….
(BTW, they do not have to be smart, because this dirty game is overt even
to the most stupid)
you can only attract people who are like you.
@jonmc
What is the difference between:
2John 1:10 "Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who does not bring this teaching. and "Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Tell me….help me with my "home work" ! maybe I can learn something from you,
that had been a mystery for me for a long time !
Sina, the reason why you see me and see the Muslims here is because
you always claim that Islam is the only evil religion.
Just admit it, and tell us that you are after Islam only whether the
other religions are the same or even worse.
Say it, and we will all disappear, because we will have nothing to
argue about.
“Poor logic. USA is lives in a democratic system . . . there is LITTLE chance it will be overtook by dictatorship. ”
The US is being overtaken by dictatorship as we speak. Until now I was against gun ownership. Now I am thinking maybe it is a bad thing but the alternative can be worse. Did you see the video in my previous comment? Where people are armed governments can’t turn the country into dictatorship. You can easily subdue a nation that is unarmed, but try to do that to one that is armed.
jonmc (who thinks he is highly educated) still does not
understand what you meant, (.), try again.
Listen to me, pig-head, all what I wanted to say is: do not throw stones
at people if your house is made of glass. Second: it is a major
mistake to under-estimate your opponents, only a fool does that.
"We are talking about what Muslims do and you are a Muslim. "
No sweet pea. . .YOU are talking about Muslims. I tend to talk about YOU.
– – –
" If what they do embarrass you, I suggest you cut your ties with them and declare yourself a non-Muslim."
Doh!
Suggest because SOME Muslims I do not consider my universal brethren – why should it mean . . . . I am ashamed of being Muslim in general?
Once again . . . poor logic.
To be hateful – you sacrifice your rationality.
Doesn't this SHOW your mentality . . . love of the White skin was it?
– – –
"As long as you belong to that group, you are part of them and share their glory and shame. There is not much glory in Islam. "
I accept. I take it all.
– – –
"On the other hand as long as people have guns no dictator can subjugate them."
Poor logic. USA is lives in a democratic system . . . there is LITTLE chance it will be overtook by dictatorship.
Britain had this problem . . . look how they got rid of it.
Perhaps the only thing Blair was able to achieve. Clever man. . . but little fulfillment.
– – –
"If we Iranians had guns we would have overthrown our despots a long time ago."
Doh! You left being Iranian long time ago . . .ONLY when it suits you . . . you choose the identity.
You are sell out – hence why you parrot American Right Wing.
The same Right Wing – that is the REAL enemy to Western Freedoms.
As Obama was victorious . . . . . they began to question "democracy" it self.
Obama – of course is NOT democratically elected . . . but a dictator!
The same attack on Freedom of Speech – by wanting Piers Morgan out.
That is the Right Wing . . . I stand for Western Freedom more than the Right Wing does.
– – –
"Hitler banned guns in Germany first before establishing his dictatorship."
This is a poor argument. Which has NOTHING to do with USA school kids getting murdered.
Especially seeing to the success Britain achieved:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_mass…
– – –
"I really don't know which is better. High rate of deaths with gun or the subjugation of an entire nation? "
What does this mean?
– – –
Your lack of rationality . . . . well I have given you enough to ponder over.
And if there is SOMETHING within you . . .
– – –
It is funny how hypocritically you mention other religions and their leaders . . . which you hold up as examples – would NOT advocate the hate-mongering you do.
One such disciple of yours was "knowTheEnemy"
When it was pointed out . . . . actually like of Ghadhi, Buddha, Guru Nanak. . . . would NOT advocate the same as you . . . .
Well – he hasn't been back since. But he did drop them . . . faster than one can say your name!
– – –
This is attaching yourself with every religion going was tactic of . . .of HITLER
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_A…
He hated this ONE religion . . . BUT lover all others.
Two wrongs makes Sina wrong.
"As a Professor of Logic at a top US university, I must say that you would get a big fat "F" (for Failure, in case you don't know how our system works) in my classes. "
Actually – YOU are NOT that.
You HONESTLY think you are the first to claim this?
– – –
If you are SUCH a top professor of logic . . . .which you clearly are not . . . then you would have NOTICED the futility of simply making such claims.
Here is logic for you son . . .
It is OBVIOUS you don't like my position – hence you would claim such things. . .
For that reason such claims lack merit.
So . . .
Rather than mere pretense . . .
You would have given examples of my poor logic and proven it . . . this would have given your words merit.
– – –
The reason you BUILT this whole lie up – actually reveals the reverse.
You know full well I am smart and YOU are impressed!
By merit you could NOT answer me . . . Hence you resorted to this lie.
Which I have successfully exposed.
– – –
Feeling small? – I cannot help you with that.
But have a nice day.
"Whoever has written it, is wrong. But this is typical of Muslims. They lie and twist the writings of other faiths to prove their point."
No dearest . . . there is ONE person lying here . . . and that is YOU.
Look at your hate-mongering above.
It is vile and disgusting.
– – –
""Yes of course! That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings. Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!" "
Look at the above . .
That is nasty lie.
You are well truly "humiliated" in these comments sections. . .
Rather than responding . . . which clearly you are NOT able to do . . .
Look you have started to spread nasty lies.
– – –
THAT is your level.
More rhetoric. That is all you will be reduced to.
When you are UNABLE to answer.
It is lying . . . . you are reduced to.
""Yes of course! That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings. Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!" "
– – –
This other faiths joining hand is simply balderdash . . . even your natural brethren like Pipes have deserted you.
One day . . . even Spencer will follow suit.
"Unlike the Koran, the NT always has context within it's verses and to ignore it is, frankly, foolish. "
Why "Unlike the Koran" – this is simply you saying it. Quranic verses do have context. To say otherwise is simply absurd. Everything has some sort of context.
– – –
"Now, let me say that I'm not particularly interested in defending the Bible"
This makes me laugh. . . a lie that Sina proclaims – then he goes and does the opposite.
– – –
"Again, to be fair, Rainbow, I will note that the lack of scholarship isn't yours alone, but I would suggest that taking citations from a site called "evilbible" might suggest to the observant that it's writers "have an axe to grind" and that it might not be entirely reliable. "
Sure . . . when Muslim point this out . . .we get get some hearty excuses.
– – –
You talk about "scholarship" yet you side with Sina?
Pull the other one.
These resources should help you. They are designed for eighth grade (~ age 14) and up:
http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/index_lo…
You find an "opponent" understanding you funny?
Oh well, if that appeals to your sense of humour laugh away "dot".
Also I note the use of the "knight jump exegisis" here.
Now, that I find hilarious!
Actually it is very important that people of all faiths and no faiths put aside their petty differences and join together in this fight. We are not enemy to each other. We just have different opinions, but can easily live side by side without anyone posing an existential threat to the other. That is not the case with Islam. Islam is the enemy of mankind and Muslims don’t want to live with us in peace and harmony,
I have an Indonesian Christian friend who wrote to me saying how he and his wife were saddened because the “moderate” Islamic government of Indonesia has prohibited its Muslim population to say Happy Christmas to the Christians of that country and how their long time neighbor refused to greet them with merry Christmas for the first time, following the orders of the government.
If this is not hate mongering what it is? Islam is the enemy and we must get united in our fight against it.
It is ISLAM /MOSLEMS/MO / QQUURRAAN that preaches, hatred, ill will ,mubahila, killing, sex, slavery , discrimination and more !!! ISLAM is a terrible,terrible religion filled with cruelty, evil and barbarism !!!!
AminRiadh ":: It is true you asked .But you wont tell about you . You dont answer even genuine questions on the topic of ISLAM . What is it that you like MO the monster ? Pedo ? Rapist? Killer? Liar ? Robber ? lecher ? sex orgy ? Slavery perpetuated and promoted by MO/ISLAM ? discrimination,intolerance, cruelty of ISLAM ? answer directly . Do you want to be a good human being ? what are the characteristics of a good human being .? ISLAM is hatred and killing all unbelievers !!! ISLAM is slavery and subjugation of all unbelievers !!!
The reason I keep smiling.
You wrote some very funny quotes explaining how much you understand opponent side ! lol
contextless set of verses, mis-translating verses , egregious lack of scholarship , have an axe to grind,
ha ha ha
It's fault of anti-Islamists to use Christianity and Hinduism against Islam as coalition. Counter strike on other faith is natural and justified.
Whatever posing against is an enemy.
this is your umptieth strawman fallacy about what I say and do. I clearly disagreed with you about rules and standards of logical reasoning and argumenting,about objective standards, evidence and proof, logic and followed consistent my own rules and standards "over and over" many comments.
I never berated you for proper standards that I did not follow myself.
Pressing for evidence sounds like a good idea, to find the highest truth we humans can find. But you use pressing for evidence only or primarily to DEBUNK. You misuse, abuse the magnificent art of logic to DEBUNK.
You came to a site for Westerners, Indians, Non-Muslims and then you expected and boasted to win with their own logical methods? But….. exempt the teaching of Mohammed from those same logical methods, because, hey, you cannot contradict Allah! You can only contradict ALI!
“ "Honestly speaking. . ." “
“You mean you often tell lies . . . hence if you don't say this. There is a great chance you are NOT telling the truth. Why do you think just because you say this . . . . people will believe you more.”
This reflect how big idiot you are. Whosoever says ‘Honestly Speaking’ it means he/she often lies, to you.
Amin….Please behave yourself.
Thanks you for appreciating Russell. As you appreciated Russell, all readers over here must have understood that you have heard only the name of Russell, never read him. As you praised this guy, you were not aware that this person condemned all religions, even Islam and Muhammad. If you know Russell was an intelligent, knowledgeable and logical they you must agree with what he wrote. You are caught in your own web. You would never be able to humiliate Sina whatever you assume you humiliated him; it is your illusion, a mirror which reflects your own humiliation. All readers here are the witness.
Even many believers have some doubts about their faith, which I also had in my young age, but after browsing internet I found Islam as evil. There is no contradiction.
I can speak Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, Gujrati, and English, can read Arabic and Persian.
Le Lauda——-Hindi
Le Tanasul——Urdu
Nau Baňda——Bengali
Le Gota———–Gujrati
MA in Urdu.
Muslims have no understanding of logic; they have created tunnel vision about Islam. Whatever they see they see through the views of their pedophile prophet. Whatever they weigh they weigh through the Quran as logic. Even most immoral act is moral near them because Quran says it. Their morals and logic are damaged by their faith.
The problem here, Rainbow, is two-fold:
In the first place you (or evilbible) is treated the New Testament like the Koran, by which I mean it is treating the NT like a contextless set of verses. Unlike the Koran, the NT always has context within it's verses and to ignore it is, frankly, foolish.
In the second place "evilbible" is trying too hard by mis-translating verses, e.g.
2John 1:10 "Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who does not bring this teaching." (NRSV/GNB and others), compare with "evilbible" version above.
Now, without context, I agree that you could infer from that what you got from evilbible, but you will note that the meanings are in any case different; but the context, given in v.4 et seq is a warning against those who denied that Jesus was a flesh-and-blood person which, I am sure you will agree, gives a very different complexion to the verse – it's "don't associate with heretics" not non-Christians.
—
Now, let me say that I'm not particularly interested in defending the Bible, but I do feel that such an egregious lack of scholarship should not pass unnoticed.
Again, to be fair, Rainbow, I will note that the lack of scholarship isn't yours alone, but I would suggest that taking citations from a site called "evilbible" might suggest to the observant that it's writers "have an axe to grind" and that it might not be entirely reliable.
What is sadly ironic is that Ali Sina wrote to you: "do your own homework and verify whether what they say is true or false" and here you have demonstrated that you haven't done so.
hi Ali, as you can see, its basically useless to try to convince a Muslim. We in the anti-Islam arena need to do something more. Yes the education of anti-Islam is important for non-Muslims and does help prevent some people from converting to Islam, but the question is: What do we do about Muslims? Most people born into a religion stay with that religion.
One way is reaching out to very young Muslims somehow whose beliefs have still not solidified yet. That still doesn't do anything about adult Muslims. Its a very serious problem that has to be analyzed.
Rainbow, the Muslim: So two wrongs make a right?
“What my alleged brethren do – and me are two different things. My civility is limited to me. And I am more than civil.”
We are talking about what Muslims do and you are a Muslim. If what they do embarrass you, I suggest you cut your ties with them and declare yourself a non-Muslim. As long as you belong to that group, you are part of them and share their glory and shame. There is not much glory in Islam.
______________
‘The first problem is you don’t have any brethren. . . other than Fundamentalist Christians. . . whose tune you have learned to play. ”
Actually I consider all mankind my brethren. I wish Muslims felt the same way but they don’t.
____________
“I mean I feel sorry for the the American Children . . . the most civilized country in the world. Yet the Gun Crime is rampant. ”
yes that is unfortunate. On the other hand as long as people have guns no dictator can subjugate them. If we Iranians had guns we would have overthrown our despots a long time ago. Hitler banned guns in Germany first before establishing his dictatorship. I invite you to listen to this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME_aSGCBrvE&featur…
You can skip the first 1:30 minute.
I really don’t know which is better. High rate of deaths with gun or the subjugation of an entire nation?
The OT is a collection of nonsense. Moses is a myth and his alleged books were not written by him. Did you read the last chapter of Deuteronomy? It contains the obituary of Moses. It says Moses was the greatest prophet and after him no one as great as him has come. It also says his tomb is lost. Now can you tell me how Moses could have written these things in his book?
The Pentateuch is not the word of God and it is not written by Moses. These books were written in about 700 BC by Esra, Jeremiah and two other unknown rabbis. The stories attributed to Moses are not true, even then those orders of killing are not for all times. They were allegedly given to the people of the time. History shows that the Jews were never involved in raiding and killing others for having the wrong religion.
The Quran is the only so called holy book that orders its followers to fight and kill others until the Last Day, i.e. perpetually, until the end of time.
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
(copied from evilbible.com)
Do you think that these ones are written by a Muslim?
Maybe now you know, where from did Mohammad get his ideas.
Whoever has written it, is wrong. But this is typical of Muslims. They lie and twist the writings of other faiths to prove their point.
who told you that the above is written by a Muslim?
One thing you should get used to is that Muslims often lie. So if you find anything written by a Muslims do your own homework and verify whether what they say is true or false. Here is what the verse says
Philippians: 2
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
As you see there is no enforcement. I often say every Muslim should read my book. I can assure you I don’t mean kill those who don’t.
Sina claims that Islam is the only religion that forces people to believe.
I think you will like this one: "Everyone will have to worship Jesus — whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10
Burn the nonbelievers:
"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Let me spell it out.Doesn't matter what's written in the OT or whether the Bible's been corrupted or if jesus is the Son of God..The fact still remains that the founder of christianity and all christians in the bible were not criminals.Muhammad and his companions were common thugs.Jesus and his followers did not commit murder,rape or plunder but Muhammad and his sahabha did.Jesus did not own and trade slaves but Muhammad did.Jesus was not a pedophile but Muhammad was.No muslim can bullsh!t his way around this.
This site was created to expose the criminal acts of Muhammad,not whether Jesus is the son of god.
Mr.Sina without involving yourself ,you are striping this rainbow of cast from "Atheism" to his real color "Islam". This is called mouse and cat chase. These thug's must be chased to their conclusive end ,you are heading in right direction's .There are hoard's of mongol warriors here in support of "Halagu",to maul the Khalifa. Keep the flag faith freedom held high.
@Loki
You said it: "I personally know at least three ex-muslim atheists who publicly criticize the evils of theirs and other religions on a daily basis".
Sina's focus is on Islam only, and he ignores or even sometimes creats excuses for other
religions………on top of it, he thinks himself to be a man of logic !
For muslims,ex-muslims don't exist.They are just some people of other religions pretending to be ex-muslims to denigrate Islam.After all,how can you leave such a peaceful,all-encompassing faith?Plus we have death penalties,imprisonment,social ostracism to ensure no attrition from our peaceful faith.So it's practically impossible for you to leave Islam.Plus we multiply in scores,leaving Allah to take care of our hungry mouths.So a few intelligent,educated people leaving Islam is nothing as long as we add indoctrinated idiots to our population to mindlessly clap to every apologist who can string a sentence together.
I personally know at least three ex-muslim atheists who publicly criticize the evils of theirs and other religions on a daily basis.All three of them are brilliant rational minds,successful in their respective professions,and happy without the mindless customs of praying,fasting and wearing long beards.
The way out of Islam and religion in general is by saving impressionable kids from the grasp of its stinky,dirty hands.
I have stopped taking you seriously since you made racist comments against Persians.
Look what has came out of your mouth…..it sounds rotten and
smells rotten and looks disgusting……………..
do you eat your poopoo………Julia ?
Dear Aminthemystic or amiriadh. V belong 2 d opposite sides but I really want 2 giv u a suggestion that will b gud 4 all of us. UR style of writing is –
Comments pasted from another person
—-
ur answer
that makes the size of ur answer longer & sometimes I loose interest as I hav already read a comment & I wud not like 2 re-read it. so I hav 2 luk for ur comments & sometimes they r very short & not worth the effort of fishing out ur line from embedded comments, I simply scroll over ur name now-a-days, like I do Shabeers.
I have been reading your comments for several weeks on many different threads on this site. As a Professor of Logic at a top US university, I must say that you would get a big fat "F" (for Failure, in case you don't know how our system works) in my classes. Even my undergraduate students do far better that your pitiable contributions. You should not embarrass yourself further by claiming to employ anything resembling logical methods of reasoning or argumentation.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."
The above aptly pertains to your case. You seem to suffer from hubris and you are doing a disservice to your faith. Better to leave it to those better qualified than yourself.
Hmmm. . . . Julia – welcome back.
New guise I see.
– – –
It is hard to hide your writing style.
Now that swearing has gone.
Look what is left!
Aminriadh & Rainbow :: Rabid Mohammaden followers of the monster MO ,,, the MO . There was/is nobody like that Pedo, rapist, looter,liar, lecher , killer, sex maniac , slave /slavery promoter MO . You choose to follow him. !!! why ? why ? The poisonous fruit which Mo bore was/is ISLAM . ISLAM is hatred, intolerance, ISLAM is discrimination, ISLAM is fascism, ISLAM is totalitarianism, ISLAM is violent, Killing, ISLAM is misogyny, ISLAM is exclusivist, ISLAM is primitive, ISLAM is darkness, ISLAM is inhuman, ISLAM is uncivilized, ISLAM is a terrible, terrible religion !!!! Which one do you do not like ? From ISLAMIC books .. Read SIRA, READ HADIS, READ QQUURRAAN !!! Get knowledge . Observe ISLAMIC societies, ISLAMIC culture !!! examine ISLAMIC regimes . You lie because MO said and ISLAM said so .
Like I said . . . hate has led him away from "rationality". Look at the hate mongering. it is NOT just indiscriminate . . .
. . . but personal too.
"Do you really still have any claim to civility after all your brethren are doing all over the world?"
When you need it . . . you become "logical" when you don't . .. it is the first thing that goes out of the window.
What my alleged brethren do – and me are two different things. My civility is limited to me. And I am more than civil.
– – –
"After over 20,000 acts of terrorism since 9/11/20001 and so many honor killings, so many riots and murders? "
The first problem is you don't have any brethren. . . other than Fundamentalist Christians. . . whose tune you have learned to play.
On that basis one can pose the exact same question to you. . .
Why is it your brethren feel the need to come killing in our backyards?
Look at the amount killed . . .
I mean I feel sorry for the the American Children . . . the most civilized country in the world.
Yet the Gun Crime is rampant.
– – –
Piers Morgan – an unsavoury looking character from UK – called for banning Guns. To shut him up – YOU brethren have called him to be deported.
Free speech – I think not.
The Gun Lobby is among the richest lobby. . . in USA!
See- this is handy work of your brethren. . . .
So don't come to me making big speeches about "civility"
– – –
Sonny you showed your true colours with this lie:
"Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"
– –
You need help. . . . get rid of the hate.
I am not saying become Muslim. . . . but go for "Humanism".
No not the new age religion . . . . but common civility – that reaches beyond colour, creed. . . borders and whatnot.
Why? Do you really still have any claim to civility after all your brethren are doing all over the world? After over 20,000 acts of terrorism since 9/11/20001 and so many honor killings, so many riots and murders?
"These people were savages. They are still savages, although a lot less than the early days of Islam. "
Hate mongering . . . he cannot help himself.
You have to realize that in those days everyone was killing others. It was not just the imamas who were killed. Alos Yazid was assassinate, also Abidullah ibn Ziad was killed, also Abdullah ibn Zunbair who wanted to be a caliph was killed. This was the tradition set by Muhammad. No one is innocent in this saga. Muhammad had reduced these people into a bunch of rabid dogs. Killing was the order of the day. They killed each other and they killed others.
As for forcing someone to get their allegiance, this too was a sunnah of Muhammad. Yazid did nothing that Muhammad didn’t do. Had Hussein come to power, there is no guarantee that he would have acted differently from from his father and his grandfather. These people were savages. They are still savages, although a lot less than the early days of Islam.
BTW, do not bother to reply…. I have no interest in having a dialogue with you.
You, like the rest, have no personality, prefer to be led by the other and
and say what he says.
Abid, you said:
Please remember, very carefully and honestly.
PROJECTING OTHERS' EVIL DOES NOT HIDE YOURS
That is exactly what Sina and you and the other supporters are doing.
Islam also has good qualities such as: feeding the hungry, donating to the poor,
take care of the orphans….etc. So how do you say that Islam is pure evil
while the other religions have few good qualities?
When people decide to become atheists or agnostics, they have experienced
a lot and they have good reasons. I doubt that you have much knowledge,
you have just hatched from the egg.
Right . . . I started from the bottom . . .reading you "story". . . .
It doesn't add up does it. . . . read again.
Sometimes you are in doubt from childhood.
Other times . . . it was on the net. . . and whatnot. No one asked this . . .
why the 4 posts.
Then small amount of actual answer.
" I am still finding such deceptions. I would request you to verify everything, do not go blindly. "
Hence why NO ONE believes a word you say.
– – – –
"One day when I was browsing internet, I found a heading saying Unholy Quotes from Quran, under which there were few verses of Quran, like kill Jews and Christians, infidels, non-believers. Which shocked me, but I did not believe it and on the same day I verified if that is there in the Quran which I read (Pickthall’s). I found it was there. From that day onwards I continued study about Islam, slowly slowly my hatred towards Islam grew. I found many many misleading and fabricated miracles about Islam and Quran"
See . . . here is the thing.
Why don't you talk about THEM
rather than time wasting.
– – –
This is why I don't believe your story.
You do NOT know much about Islam. And you were NEVER a Muslim.
You are Hindu/Sikh – and lying.
Hence you only EVER come up with such stories . . . and not talk about the Quran.
Just long meandering speeches.
Which are easy to dismiss.
As there is NOTHING of worth in there.
Your story – No one really believes.
– – –
But this SHOULD NOT matter to you. . . .it does.
Shouldn't your energies be better spent on EXPOSING Quran?
Something which you don't do.
Certainly ! There is a difference between killing by likes of Adam Lanza & those by Sucide Bombers. The First ones are isolated cases commited bu mentally disturbed persons while latter are done by Intoxicated Group. While first one are incidences latter are Phenomenon. No guides for first kind while the second category are Trained, Guided & Brain-washed, alas! in the name of Merciful God.
"Honestly speaking, don’t mind, I found Quran is worst nonsense I have ever read. Repetition, sudden end of event or stories, incomplete information and lots more."
Acquired views – you don't know what you are talking about. These are generalities. Anyone can copy these from anti-Islam sites. The thing is in specifics.
– – –
"Honestly speaking. . ."
You mean you often tell lies. . . hence if you don't say this. There is a great chance you are NOT telling the truth. Why do you think just because you say this . . . . people will believe you more.
Yet it has the EXACT opposite effect.
– – –
"Quran never implies anything but people infer what they want to infer from this vague, incomplete nonsense book."
Actually there are principles, methodology behind it . . . if you don't that is NOT my fault. Go and learn!
– – –
" There is ample of events of Muhammad’s atrocious, lustful, inhuman deeds in Hadiths and Sira, even in Quran."
Where?
– – –
"I am an ardent fan of Bertrand Russell and Ali Sina. I think Sina is the Russell of 21st century. "
Ha ha ha ha ha . . . no he is NOT. On what basis.
Russell was a political leftie – a strong leftie. He was a magnificent scholar.
He was master logician . . .
Sina is NONE of these things. I have REGULARLY "humiliated" him in these sections.
He doesn't even know the basics of logic.
– – –
"You must read Russell. "
Sorry son. . . I can actually tell you have NEVER actually read Bertrand Russell. This is just to sound clever!
"Do these have anything to do with my faith and knowledge? Do these really affect our discussion?"
Yes. If I ask you a question. . . then why not answer. There is NOTHING much in it – is there?
– – –
So I take it you speak Urdu. . . . what about Hindi? Gujrati or some other lingo?
– – –
" I have completed M.Com and MA from a reputed Indian university"
What subject?
– – –
"a Sunni Muslim ( Formerly a Bareilvvy sect)"
Tell me more.
My language, where from I am and parents are, nation, my culture. Do these have anything to do with my faith and knowledge? Do these really affect our discussion? I am from India, a Sunni Muslim ( Formerly a Bareilvvy sect) a middle class family, father is a retired government servant, and I have completed M.Com and MA from a reputed Indian university. I am very interested in the study of all Religion & of God since my early days.
There is no miracle in Islam and Quran. Honestly speaking, don’t mind, I found Quran is worst nonsense I have ever read. Repetition, sudden end of event or stories, incomplete information and lots more. Quran never implies anything but people infer what they want to infer from this vague, incomplete nonsense book. There is ample of events of Muhammad’s atrocious, lustful, inhuman deeds in Hadiths and Sira, even in Quran. I completely deny that Muhammad was a God’s Man. As far as belief in God is concerned, I don’t believe in any merciful, omnipotent, personal God who will account for our deeds on earth. Mainly because of problem of evils. Still my position is of an agnostic. I am an ardent fan of Bertrand Russell and Ali Sina. I think Sina is the Russell of 21st century. You must read Russell.
Let me share my journey of enlightenment. In spite of that about three or three and a half years back when I was a very religious muslim, practicing everything but a good human being as well, I never hated people of any other faith or any atheist. One day when I was browsing internet, I found a heading saying Unholy Quotes from Quran, under which there were few verses of Quran, like kill Jews and Christians, infidels, non-believers. Which shocked me, but I did not believe it and on the same day I verified if that is there in the Quran which I read (Pickthall’s). I found it was there. From that day onwards I continued study about Islam, slowly slowly my hatred towards Islam grew. I found many many misleading and fabricated miracles about Islam and Quran, as I continued verification. I am still finding such deceptions. I would request you to verify everything, do not go blindly.
Since my early childhood days I had few questions in my mind which Islam and Christianity claims. Like, nothing happens without the will of God still we are punished and rewarded as per our deeds in afterlife. Afterlife is infinite, without end, Satan was condemned for his disobedience to God & was thrown in earth and he decided to mislead people, I used to think Why would we be punished for his evil act of misdirecting, why God is not stopping him from doing such a charade, why would we be punished for the disobedience of Adam & Eve. These are very simple nonsense which every child with a normal brain could understand.
See, I could say that on this and this particular date I left Islam but this would not be true.
That is the continuation of two of my above comments,as I am not able write a long comment in one section.
@Rainbow,
Please remember, very carefully and honestly.
PROJECTING OTHERS' EVIL DOES NOT HIDE YOURS.
You should justify your own deeds instead of highlighting others. Ali Sina has already said every religion is bad but still have some good stories and morals to tell, where Islam is an exception(which is pure evil). Which I completely agree with him. Here what Sina means that all religion is mostly bad, illogical, absurd and evil but still have FEW good qualities. He is not an propagator of Christianity or any other other religion. I have talked to many muslim, where you tell them about the evil of islam, they start highlighting the evil of other religion as if we are the apologist of other religions. NONSENSE!!!
@Dr. Sina
—-Even when Hussein was surrounded, Abidullah invited him to offer his allegiance to Yazid and spare his and his people’s lives. Hussein said he would rather fight. He either had a death wish or had placed too much faith on his dream of victory.
So who is responsible for his death and the death of his family? No one but him. —-
Sir, how is it different from muslims killing kaffirs or threatning them to embrace islam otherwise get killed? For a Muslim every kaffir is like hussein, deluded? no?
I would still balme yazid for the killing of hussein.
"That if fine, then show me where in the Bible, particularly in the New Testament you find injunctions for the believers to kill the unbelievers."
– –
"15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
John.
– –
3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Luke [About John The Baptist]
– – –
7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark
– – –
"7:25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. "
Mark
Ouch! The Jewish attitude of them being the only "chosen" race. Perhaps. . .
– – –
"If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."
Deuteronomy [A particularly "difficult" book – I have YET to figure out 23:2 – At least Islam made you safe from this!]
– – –
= = =
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
"
– – –
Christians can point to context an limit of these. . . but this not what was asked.
Sina, you claimed something to be a fact,
and I answered you: No, it is false, (by providing evidences)
This is the whole story.
BTW, the evidences were provided by ex-Christians, who
I suppose have a better knowledge about Christianity than me and you.
Sina wrote me saying:
" If you can prove I am lying, why you write these complaints? Just write your evidence and expose me publicly. "
This is in an answer to the above claims – which I hold to untrue. As they are HIS claims – it upon him to rpove them.
To say something like this:
"Yes of course! That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings. Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"
He MUST have come across my comments – that intimate what he claims.
Hence he can show them to me and PROVE beyond doubt I have said this.
– – –
So why attempt to shift the burden of proof unto me?
I am simply challenging the above assertions to not to be true.
My Proof? See my comments. None of them will say this.
Doh! Which will lead back to him . . . point to the EXACT comments which say what he claims.
Hence why the burden of proof in upon him.
"If the evil in the Bible does not justify the evil in the Quran why do you keep bringing it up? I am not a Christian and don't promote it."
1. Just because he brings up the Bible does NOT mean it to justify anything in the Quran.
2. You DO promote it. Several of your comments do. In the same vain as Hirsi Ali.
3. It does highlight your hypocrisy.
– – –
"However, you can't find any justification for killing in the teachings of Jesus. "
Christianity doesn't have much to do with Jesus. And is not made or developed by him. In fact many of Christian practices are directly opposed to what Jesus would have likely to have done as Jew.
But – when you say you cannot . . . actually you can. Bible has often been used to Justify killings. . .
" My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…. And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people…. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited. "
http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm
– – –
"They misinterpret. "
I thought you don't promote Christianity?
So why defend it in such a way? Who are YOU to say this as non-believer and one is against the very idea of religion/god being valid at all?
– – –
"it would stand as a contrast to many other verses such as turn the other cheek and love thy neighbor."
Ah . . . yet when Muslims point this out – about Quran . . . then it is some kind of fallacy!
– – –
"So the sword is not for the Christians to raise but for them to be prepared to receive from their enemies, as indeed it happened. The believers did not have peace but were confronted with swords and even lions. "
No dearie . . . As I have pointed out . . you have SOLD yourself.
You claim to be an Atheist . . . but rabid defense of Christianity . . .
Despite mountain of evidence.
For example . . . Jewish treatment at the hands of Christian in Europe.
Culminating in 6million massacre.
Which Catholicism supported AT LEAST by its continued silence.
As for Hitler as Christian . . .
" Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity. "
" In the Bible we find the text, 'That which is neither hot nor cold will I spew out of my mouth.' This utterance of the great Nazarene has kept its profound validity until the present day. "
" The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie. "
– – –
2 things about personal faith are known about Hitler. . . . he flitted between Christianity and Atheism.
And he was SPECIFICALLY against 1 religion.
If the evil in the Bible does not justify the evil in the Quran why do you keep bringing it up? I am not a Christian and don’t promote it. So why this subject is a constant in all the debates with you and the Muslims? Drop it. Who cares what the Bible says? At least I don’t. I am discussing Islam.
__________
“You said the bible never encouraged genocide, but the truth is it does.”
You can’t get rid of the Bible can you? That if fine, then show me where in the Bible, particularly in the New Testament you find injunctions for the believers to kill the unbelievers. There are some fables in the OT that are tales of what allegedly happened. But there are no orders to fight and kill the unbelievers perpetually as you find in the Quran. Maybe I missed that. Can you show me?
Furthermore, are there any Jews or Christians busy killing the non believers? A few nuts murdered a few abortion clinic doctors. In their twisted minds they were saving more lives. However, you can’t find any justification for killing in the teachings of Jesus.
The only verse Muslims oft use is Matthew 10:34 where Jesus says “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword.”
They misinterpret it. If this verse were an injunction for Christians to pick up the swords and murder others, it would stand as a contrast to many other verses such as “turn the other cheek” and “love thy neighbor.” So the sword is not for the Christians to raise but for them to be prepared to receive from their enemies, as indeed it happened. The believers did not have peace but were confronted with swords and even with lions.
After an exchange of emails . . . Sina has NOT touched this again but has avoided it.
I am not holding my breath – that he will ever answer.
– –
But note the accusation. It is a lie. Else he can prove it. He is roundly "humiliated" each of his comments.
In answer . . . he makes up such lies.
Rainbow – truth does NOT matter to him.
This was DELIBERATE attack . . .and personal.
He cannot defend ANY of his positions . . . and it is his choice of word.
He is roundly "humiliated".
Sina, I cannot believe that you are that slow in understanding. I told you that
the evil of the bible does not make the evil of Islam less, I said that in another
form (there are terrorists among Christians and ofcourse that does not make
the Islamic terrorists look better).
You always use this method when you have no answer and when you are
stuck, you divert the conversation to other channels and start to accuse your
opponent of being unrational.
You are not slow in understanding, you understood my point very well,
you are just cunning…….trying to lead your opponent and the readers
through a labyrinth until the main point is lost.
Another lie of yours:
You said the bible never encouraged genocide, but the truth is it does.
Here you got stuck and tried to escape by throwing at me all those
rediculous accusations.
Briefly, you are a big LIAR….and even your fans know that, but they
try always to cover your dirt. You and your fans deserve each others,
I do not know which of you should be embarrassed from the other.
See this is CLEAR EVIDENCE when Sina cannot beat you in an arguments . . .
He does this. it is NOT the 1st time. Whenever he does this . . . .proof/evidence/rationality are NOT there. Pure hate is.
Else:
"Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings!"
Where?
"That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings"
See – deliberate personal hate . . . as you cannot and are UNABLE to discuss without it.
Sure . . do point examples of such "evilness" . . . or is it the circular. Islam is Evil – You support Evil. Hence You are Evil.
– – –
"Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran."
Me.
– – –
"e evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad's rapes and pedophilia. Examples?"
Me!
– – –
"Your own writings! "
Where?
Your claim . . . now prove it.
– – –
i am NOT here to defend others – they can do that themselves.
But myself . . .
If you CANNOT prove your accusation . . . then it is a lie.
A deliberate lying accusation.
– – –
Read what I have said above . . .
Comment after comment I expose him . . . NOW he comes and makes accusations against ME personally.
SIna has done that few times . . .
Then he has been UNABLE to answer them.
Hence – this too is a LIE like before.
Unless he can give examples . . . then PROVE what he is claiming.
– – –
I asked him to prove the above . . . what does he do? In turn make ludicrous accusations . . . that ARE completely false. . . .
Once again – when he is beaten . . . .he descend to this.
THAT is why he says . . . he will never be beaten.
Truth has got NOTHING to do with it.
– – –
"For the sake of argument, let us assume what you say about the Bible is true. How then this makes the evil of Islam less? Why in the hell you so passionately defend Islam and all you can do is to point at other faiths that in your view are evil too? "
This site is about YOUR views of Islam. When you criticise Islam for something then deny and support the same thing in Christianity DESPITE evidence to the contrary . . . this highlights YOUR hypocrisy.
– – –
"This is not a rational argument. This is tu quoque, a logical fallacy. "
Actually it isn't.
" appeal to hypocrisy, is a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it." Wiki
– – –
Highlighting your hypocrisy makes you a hypocrite.
But the fallacy ONLY occurs if your arguments [non relating] are dismissed on this basis.
This is NOT the case being made.
Especially when Rainbow says:
"My point, which I hope it will reach you, is that you often say that only
the quran is evil…..while the bible is based on love and peace…..
now you know it isn't. "
– – –
You people simply LOVE accusing people of Fallacies.
READ THE BLOODY THINGS!
Why don't you LEARN the basics of Classical Logic. It will help.
“Those who lap this up do not question it. . . as they agree with him as to the evilness of Islam.”
Yes of course! That is because they have seen the evidence many times, even in your own writings. Show me one Muslim who does not try to highlight the evil things happening in the non-Muslim world to justify the evil of the Quran. Show me one Muslim who does not bring up the crusades, the inquisition, George Bush, 1st and 2nd world wars, rapes and domestic abuses happening the the west to justify jihad, terrorism and Muhammad’s rapes and pedophilia. Examples? Your own writings! The writings of Rainbow, Zeitouni, Ali (the sinner) and every one of you Muslims.
although I do not like saying it
Why do I find it hard to agree with you, Sina ?
Just using your words….but in fact, sometimes I do.
Just be thankfull that I am wasting one minute to
respond to you……MORON.
For the sake of argument, let us assume what you say about the Bible is true. How then this makes the evil of Islam less? Why in the hell you so passionately defend Islam and all you can do is to point at other faiths that in your view are evil too? This is not a rational argument. This is tu quoque, a logical fallacy. Your tribalism has blinded you to such and extent that you throw away all reason. Get over your tribalism man. That diminishes you as a human being.
" All killings are unjust. "
No they are not.
– – –
"Give us an example where Muslims are being killed without provocation."
I take it you have given up on "history". But as repeatedly mentioned Iraq. Recent past.
"Donkeys are nobler than most humans."
Maybe maybe not. But Stupidity and Nobility are two things.
Compared to humans – Donkeys are pretty stupid animals.
It is the emphasis/context that makes it whether Rainbow meant it as an insult or not.
In the above case – it wasn't Donkeys that he was insulting.
Especially when s/he said:
"I do not consider it an insult being an animal."
Earlier, you said: Bible does not encourage genocide.
But it fact, bible encourages genocide, and I showed you the proof.
Neither the Muslims nor the Christians have read their holy books thoroughly.
The ones who have, and want to make a comittment, turn to fanatics
and then to terrorist.
You cannot deny that there are terrorists among Christians as well,
of course, that does not make the Islamic terrorists look better, no way.
My point, which I hope it will reach you, is that you often say that only
the quran is evil…..while the bible is based on love and peace…..
now you know it isn't.
Please do not insult donkeys. We humans owe so much to these noble animals whom we exploited, beaten and even insulted. Donkeys are nobler than most humans.
Give us an example where Muslims are being killed without provocation. I am not asking you to give me an example where Muslims are killed unjustly. All killings are unjust.
" When we say Muhammad was a mass murderer, they say but Hitler killed more. When we say he was a pedophile, they say there are many serial child molesters and pedophiles in the West. I have even heard them argue that more people are killed in natural disasters than in terrorism. There is no end to the absurdity of the Islamic thinking. "
No dear – this is WHAT you make out "they" say . . .
Else you would highlight – many Muslims saying this . . .
Generality of such statements depend on many Muslims saying it.
Yet you have not given any evidence. Just your claims.
Which knowing how bitterly you are against Islam is NOT good enough.
Hence you have to qualify this. Else it would lose all merit.
– – –
Those who lap this up do not question it. . . as they agree with him as to the evilness of Islam.
And such pressing for evidence . . .they do not like.
But when the shoe is on the other foot. . .
They berate you for lack of proper standards . . .
And then they claim with a straight face they believe in objective standards, evidence and proof, logic. . . .
– – –
Worst Example on this site is – Demsci. Over and over and over . . .many comments.
“I see the faults of either side.”
What other side? I am not promoting any other side. I want to expose Islam. Why do you think tu quoque is a valid argument and if you find something evil in any other doctrines then we can pretty much ignore the evil of Islam?
There are countless evil doctrines. This does not mean we have to whitewash the evil in Islam. You claim you have left Islam but you really haven’t. Your heart and mind is still Islamic and you reason like a Muslim. A Muslims natural propensity is to engage in tu quoque and try to find something wrong in others to justify the evil of his faith. When we say Muhammad was a mass murderer, they say but Hitler killed more. When we say he was a pedophile, they say there are many serial child molesters and pedophiles in the West. I have even heard them argue that more people are killed in natural disasters than in terrorism. There is no end to the absurdity of the Islamic thinking.
@Abid_Well, I have the same problem, but reversed. Sina does not believe that I am an_ex-Muslim. He thinks that every Muslim who leaves Islam should rave and rant_and curse and being unjust and tell lies just to destroy that religion. _I am not like that, because I see the faults of either side. There are flaws in _the Islamic religion, and I couldn't live with them….but if the other Muslims want_to live by the rules of Islam, no one has the right to criticise or fight them._Anyway, Muslims do not go 100% by their book, only some small groups of_fanatics…..and those fanatics exist also in other relgions, which I proved to be _violent and evil as well. I posted a link for Sina to show him that the bible also_order its followers to kill the unbelievers….but he ignored it. Just go to: evilbible.com
There is a reply button. You might find it useful. Or at least name the person you are answering to.
– – –
"Do you want to come to my house, so that you could kill me, and gain Jannah (Heaven). "
See how devious and deceptive you are.
In challenge to you . . . .you claim this. This shows extent of your hate and illogical thinking.
– – –
"Pls AMINRIADH, for your Allah sake, pls tell me how are you going to believe that I am an ex-muslim. "
1. I don't really care. It seems that YOU do . . .
2. I have SUCCESSFULLY undermined your story.
I have simply raised my doubts – I asked you some simple questions . . . have you answered?
You could do that here? As a reply to this comments?
– – –
Why is it that it matter to you . . . whether I believe you or not? Look the things you say . . . . it shouldn't matter.
But this leads me to believe . . . I have hit a nerve.
– – –
"Why don't you repeat the question. God knows what question you asked. "
See – you have played this game before – already.
And I repeated the question. But you didn't answer then.
– – –
= = =
"Don't you know there are several types of Shirk as described by Mullahs. Believing someone else apart from Allah is also is a Shirk, not only associating partner with Allah is a Shirk. "
Meaningless Twiddle – this was somewhere else. . . . and it shows you read the comments
– – –
No – You are LYING when you say you are an ex Muslim.
= = =
All I asked was about your background . . . where are your parents from, mother language and that . . . .
"AMINRIADH is repeating the same thing that I am not an ex-muslim. Even Ali Sina is not an ex one. Everyone is Jews or Christians, infidels( All the enemy of Islam). Did any muslim have ever think why there is enemies of only Islam, Why everyone is enemy of Islam, Jews, Christians, Hindus? I will tell you 'Why'! Because Islam is the enemy of ALL. "
No sonny . . .this is YOU saying it.
I have exposed you VERY simply.
By your rhetoric which doesn't mean much – and YOUR repeated avoidance of NOT answering question.
Which is telling.
– – –
"I am confused what I do, shall I cry or shall I laugh. When these muslims claim that even I am not an ex-muslim. "
But why SHOULD anyone believe you?
Especially when you don't answer some easy questions?
– – –
All you come out with is HOT AIR.
Meaningless.
You even asked what questions before – and still didn't bother to answer.
Telling!
Here you have made Belief and Knowledge one. I was talking about Belief and you are citing example of 'Knowledge'. See, Who is DISHONEST. It is you who is DISHONEST not ME.
A Belief is inculcated not Knowledge. Knowledge is imparted. Because knowledge does not need to be internalized. A belief should be based on one's own knowledge and understanding not on forefathers or others, judged by logic, common sense, conscience and human centric morals.
Pls AMINRIADH, for your Allah sake, pls tell me how are you going to believe that I am an ex-muslim.
Do you want to come to my house, so that you could kill me, and gain Jannah (Heaven).
I have already asked you to tell me where you have asked me questions and I did not answer. Why don't you repeat the question. God knows what question you asked.
Don't you know there are several types of Shirk as described by Mullahs. Believing someone else apart from Allah is also is a Shirk, not only associating partner with Allah is a Shirk.
"Dearie how does this makes sense . . . how do you think "knowledge" get passed down and built upon? "
I said: "Muslims do not believe Islam or Muhammad directly from God's inspiration or command but from their forefathers' words. "
I am confused what I do, shall I cry or shall I laugh. When these muslims claim that even I am not an ex-muslim. As I have already said in my previous comment:
"Better all muslims above claim that there no ex-muslims in this forum, there is only Ali Sina or ( some Jews or Christian with a name changed) is writing by changing names as different persons. Denying & Lying are the main weapons of muslims to defend Islam, else they don't have anything else"
AMINRIADH is repeating the same thing that I am not an ex-muslim. Even Ali Sina is not an ex one. Everyone is Jews or Christians, infidels( All the enemy of Islam). Did any muslim have ever think why there is enemies of only Islam, Why everyone is enemy of Islam, Jews, Christians, Hindus? I will tell you 'Why'! Because Islam is the enemy of ALL.
Still , you are with all that stench and putrid ISLAM . Leave it . No , you are still in darkness of ISLAM.
You need a strong antidote of ISLAM , a shock therapy against ISLAMIC poison. Really.
@J_Stillwater
rainbow seems to be a racist and really does not care what the truth is as long as he/she can attribute blame to americans or europians..
rainbow i will bet you are a racist.. you just hate americans
Don't worry you are always been source of entertainment ! Kudos to you !
Hi Demsci
merry christmas to you and your family.. regarding the killing of muslims .. the first fact that escapes these apologists for mohammad, is that the biggest killer of muslims is Islam.. every muslim family has ancestors that were brutalized at some stage of history.. the esitmiates of people killed by islam is well over 300 million plus deaths in slavery..
here is a link that offers a timelapse view of islamic wars over the last 1400 years.. it is horrific
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
"I know the Western standards. But people can present opinions, claims without evidence and reason. And it is a fallacy to declare these false or to fail to see the merits in them merely because they are not supported by evidence and reason. "
NO – it is the OPPOSITE way around . . . if an claimer cannot bring the evidence – then his his claim are meaningless.
And you have the absurdity to say this . . .
"And it is a fallacy to declare these false or to fail to see the merits in them merely because they are not supported by evidence and reason. "
How is it a fallacy?
Who else is saying this?
If it is SIMPLY you . . . Well.
– – –
"I know the Western standards. But "
What you mean: "But"
. . . .If you know the standard .. . then what is the BUT about.
– – –
I have explained this to you SEVERAL times.
Yet you are STILL In denial.
You have NO proof. . . . . you just say this as an excuse.
– – –
Say someone has an opinion that . . .
Earth is flat.
When this is challenged . . . . then that person cannot given any evidence or reason for his opinion.
He can have the opinion. . . but it will have NO MERIT.
No one is stopping this person having that opinion . . .
Say he spreads it in the community and it is challenged. . . so what merit will this opinion have?
None.
– – –
"And it is a fallacy to declare these false or to fail to see the merits in them merely because they are not supported by evidence and reason."
Now it PERFECTLY possible to that one can have a valid opinion . . .and NOT be able to provide evidence or reasoning.
However that person will still lose the debate by default.
– – –
Now have a think . . . . then answer.
I am NOT saying such things . . . . but inverting Sina's arguments . . . and inserting Atheism – instead of Islam.
Wrong answer – nothing new.
Rainbow . . . .I am NOT saying them.
You misunderstand . . . please read again.
– – –
I was giving example – BY turning Sina's argument around.
Ouch!
Unless you are being Ironic. . . .As well as Rainbow's mistake – it is your as well.
My saying those things was simply as an example.
I am NOT saying them.
You see? When your tribalism bias does not blind you, you can be a pretty smart pretty lady.
Which bible you read ? Who is the Author ? What proof you want? Contradictions in messages , scientific methods , even theological contradictions in bible itself. All prove bible is corrupted.
You are in denial mode Thank you !
Gulf war 1, Saddam Hussain captured American ally, Kuwait. The US had to come to its aid.
Attack on Iraq was an overreaction of George W Bush in revenging for 9/11, the bombing the 2 US embassies in East Africa n the attack on the USS Cole. Surely, he had to find a way to release his anger n Saddam Hussain was acting "funny".
@no name… opinions… thank you for them… but… I'm still looking for your proof that the bible had been corrupted (at the time of muhammad).
You keep getting your wires crossed… you keep mentioning things that only exist in the catholic church and calling them christian… that is the mistake mohammad made also…
The worship of icons and statues, etc., is mostly a catholic idea. Saints, etc., are a catholic idea…
The church existed before the roman catholic takeover… in fact… every few years, the leaders of the church met to have councils to make sure strange teachings didn't creep into the core message of the gospel… the roman catholics changed all that… which later led to the reformation…
The idea of the son of god has nothing to do with statues, etc. It is a necessary theological doctrine that exists as an integral part of the Gospel. For example, when the prophet john introduced Jesus to the bathers at the jordan, he introduced him as: behold, the lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world. This was a public proclamation… these are all core doctrines in christianity and always have been…
J Stillwater
Paki-Satan, that's funny and pretty accurate.
@Rainbow
Many absurdities are in Christianity, Hinduism faith also. But these faiths do not force you believe in them nor curse the people if they reject the faith. Even after rejecting ideas of the religion people can live peacefully in Hinduism or Christian state. But In Islamic state you have no freedom to disagree with Islam/ prophet /Quran. There is death punishment for not believing and rejecting ideas of Quran.
If you ignore these two evidences, you are then admitting one of
two: either you ignorant, and this is disgraceful…..
or you are a liar, and this is more disgraceful.
ha ha ha Rainbow you too become source of entertainment when?
Those lines are mimicking blogger's hate mongering borders against Muslims. The same border is used against atheists as an example !!!
Now I am certain a believer is who can understand and there is cover on eyes of unbelievers !!!
Here is another one from our friend (.) http://www.evilbible.com
Sina, how many times do I have to show you this video to prove
to you that the bible openly prescribe genocide (reason #10) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y
I will search for other proofs, since you don't find this convincing.
Amin Said:'" All atheists are dirty.
You can NOT be rational as you are an atheist.
"Atheists should be BOMBED into submission.
and I say: since you made this statement, you proved that you are the one who
is not rational. You should know that faith is a personal matter, and there are
dirty people among the atheists and among the believers as well. If you've
met an atheist or two who are dirty, and then assumed that all atheists are dirty,
then you are far from being wise.
I know very well that there are dirty atheists (inside and outside), yet there are
intellectual atheists with high moralities that can never be found among believers.
When you said: "Atheists should be BOMBED into submission",
you proved that Sina can be right sometimes. (as I said earlier….although
he is a liar, but he said true things).
You are kafir or nasibi, that's kafir also anyway.
God is love,peace ,happiness and service. God is absolute truth = sanatana dharma.
So how you feel from your development from son of God to son of Hamas ? Did you add this in new bible ?
Didn't I said, I say it again Jesus[ strictly prophet ] love me more than you .Look I am happy and you are a hate monger !
If
{
quran teaches == kill kufar;
response.write == blame Islam;
}
Else if
{
these people == Non Muslims;
response.write == blame person's behaviour;
}
What i have worked out is that there are many great prophets.. Buddha, Jesus, Zoroaster and others..
today we remember Jesus who brought the message of Love into the world.. Ali Sina loves his own people, He loves animals and is a very thoughtful man….
Jesus teaches that those that Love his neighbor is infact loving God.. i have read many of the responses and thoughts of Ali Sina and he is an advanced soul and he is already a great man in the eyes of God
son of hamas is a man that lived the life of a muslim prince.. offered the best education and understanding of islam.. better than most muslims ..
so why does he give this advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHq25tnZoFs
"Are you answering to yourself now dear. "
well probably am just talking to myself.. does it not seem ironic that a so called "atheist" defends islam.. but then just thinking about it.. what is Islam really about? Submission.. and anyone that that does not agree is hateful.. wow there is a great concept..
as for split personaility.. the son of hamas offers all muslims great advice, but do not watch this it may be too close to the truth for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHq25tnZoFs
@Rainbow… incorrect again… Josephus, the jewish/roman historian mentions him twice in his "histories of the jews."
J Stillwater
Jesus exists only in the bible.
There is no evidence that Jesus
actually existed
Better if Christians will come out of mental asylum of declaring Jesus as son of god ? or god ? or father of father? or free spirit ?
Then we will have sane discussion right.
Why god can't take form of human ?( Christians are new Hindus lol one more proof of corruption )
With god all things are possible. Good thing that he made your mom pregnant and didn't drop you from sky lol.. (understand nature and systems )
If Jesus is son of god, I am son of God and God is father (understand son as attribute and father as attribute who care , protect , nurture, not anything biological )
One very important thing Jesus love me being a Muslim more than any christian for not mocking him , for not hanging him on cross pathetically , for not making his statue worship with candles , for not asking him to die for my sins
If you really want honest answer I will tell you facts about hate mongers psychic reading.
You have conceived image of Islam, Muslims , prophet with your crooked logic and fabrications and hatred. You dwell in that understanding and keep fighting with that image which really don't exist. But that really have no such impact on what is Islam.
Some times you get success in evoking some Muslims by hurting their intellectual and emotional aspect about Islam and prophet or make some astray. These lunatic , disturbing elements of hate mongering will never get any support from any nation, any country , any humanitarian society in world.
"so you try to kill everyone that does not agree with you"
Split personality?
Are you answering to yourself now dear.
An answer from someone who cannot answer.
An answer that means and contains nothing.
Poor dear cannot even celebrate Christmas without us . . . ahhhhhhh
Merry Christmas to Ali Sina
thank you for your courage, spirit and knlowledge.. You are a true light in this world.
may God grants you his blessings and all the promises of Christ
peace
"Qur'an as in reference to violence understood with strategic intelligence only tends to peace. "
your concept of peace is absurb! submission to some bullshit story that encourages slavery and stone aged thinking.. Islam has no place in the modern world.. your trouble is that you have no self confidence and you are unable to belong to the modern world so you try to kill everyone that does not agree with you..
Poor Rainbow,
why do you ask questions when you are incapable to understand the answers? you are not interested in the truth..
just go back arguing that nothing exists
The beating of breasts with chains and cutting the scull with swords is a weird enactment , unfit for any human civilization, when you know that both shia's and sunnis are followers of MO !!! They interpret this as the sacrifice of ISLAM the highest glory !!! sacrifice against whom and for whom ? This was not sacrifice, just a part of ISLAM – killing and blood letting . !!!! out of revenge !!!! arising out of hatred the very basis and foundation of ISLAM !!! This is exact meaning .of MUHARRUM .
" infidel/kafir "
One day . . . you might be able to come up with an argument that works . . . "denialisnoproof"
But in the meantime . . . . try improving your English.
And if you are going to have multiple names . . .
At least come up with different writing styles!
"Adolf Hitler was not Christian. "
See how rationality goes from this person . . .hatred is a deep and powerful emotions . . if not kept in check . . .
– – –
Hitler flitted between Christianity and Atheism.
Something he shares with Sina!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_A…
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
– – –
He admired Hinduism and Buddhism . . . he held their leaders to "spiritual"
He claimed it was the Aryans that established the Vedic philosophy.
What symbol did he adopt?
Yes the swastika.
– – –
As for Judaism . . .
Where else did he pick up keeping the blood lines pure . . . if NOT inspired by Judaism.
– – –
His Christianity and Atheism . . . . they are LONG topics . . . hence the links I have given.
Interesting point to note.
Sina cannot read Arabic Quran . . .
"Try to read the Arabic and the the translations and you'll see which ones are more accurate. "
Doh!
Actually a badly put point . . . . as Pipes wishes to see end of Islam . . . So why would any sane Muslim align with him?
– – –
Rejecting Pipes – does NOT equal to rejecting Peace.
– – –
Where does your rationality go? Why such logical fallacies Sina?
= = =
"Yes I would be delighted to be wrong. "
No you wouldn't . . . as your objective is to see End of Islam – no matter what.
Yo be on the Net – say 20years from now . . . So Will I be . . .
I'll come back for laugh . . . . then. Remember this!
– – –
You are like these End of the World preachers . . .
When the end doesn't come – they tend NOT give up their belief . . . but find more excuses.
"I don't know for sure that he did, because he is still linked to Robert Spencer and Robert Spencer is still linked to Ali Sina, in SION. "
One day Spencer will boot him as well!
– – –
"But Muslims in vast majority paint Ali Sina and Daniel Pipes-Zuhdi Jasser with the same brush if they know them at all. "
Actually Pipes and Zuhdi ARE considered differently . . . .
Pipes is rejected . . .out and out. He wants to see the end of Islam. Like Sina – but for His won religious reasons.
So why would Muslims align with him?
– – –
" I think Muslims by and large confirm Ali Sina by rejecting Pipes and Jasser just as categorically as they reject Ali Sina."
He he . . . rejecting Pipes – someone who wishes END of Islam . . . . really?
That doesn't equal rejecting Pipes.
As Muslims have THEIR own campaign and whatnot.
– –
So what exactly is Sina proven right?
" There is not a trace of honesty in you Muslims. It is amazing. "
See the lie . . . as it is REGULARLY shown in these comments – it is YOU who is dishonest.
Comment after comment.
This is why – when you have no reply – you move on.
This is why comment after comment – NOT even your supporters have answers. . .
It is ALL here to see.
Just because few fellow hatemonger still beat the drum . . . it doesn't equal to
The evidence points otherwise. Else do NOT mention the book.
He issues me a challenge to a debate and the elevates me to being an "Imam"!
Honest? Not a chance.
– – –
"Islam is the only religion that does not recognize other religions. "
Actually it does. Islam claims to be a descendant of Judaism and Christianity.
– – –
"How could all the Jews and Christians who were distressed all of the the world agree to alter their holy books exactly in the same way when we know the Christians of the East and the Christians of the West were not even talking to each other and had fundamental disagreements? "
He displays his IGNORANCE. . . .
Bible – the New Testament is CANONICAL book . . . . even the Christians hold it is altered.
Someone actually decided that what is and isn't Bible.
It was written 100 years after Jesus. . . . and ordinary people hae chosen what is and isn't the Bible.
– – –
"The lies of Muhammad were so obvious that only a fool or a Muslim can believe in them. "
Yet he CANNOT come up with a single one! Doh!
He simply claims it.
– – –
"The saw he had a redness in his eyes (blepharitis)"
This er .. . "balderdash"
And clearly YOU making it up!
And this is what is ridiculous . . . .
– – –
Hence NO ONE actually believes you . . .
There is AMPLE evidence for that.
Find me one person who does?
– – –
They come to you the darkness – because of their OWN hate . . .
As I pointed out . . .
They would rather given you the money to carry on hate mongering – than read your book . . .
– – –
Maybe if someone HAD read it . . . . it wouldn't be so poor and fallacious.
I have the grave well prepared:
http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/
You cannot be truthful or honest or you are not with any integrity. As a moslem , your birth right and natural state is to be a liar, to be hateful against all unbelievers, to discriminate against all unbelievers, to treat all nonmoslems as enemies, to defend all cruel, evil, wicked, primitive, killing theology of ISLAM/Mo , to follow that Monster Mo !!! what else can you do and see ? If you want to be a good human being with truth,love, compassion ,peace, freedom , then leave ISLAM .
" Unlike your prophet I don't make stupid claims that I cannot prove. "
Yet the list is ever growing . . . . look at how many comments – you have been defeated in . . . Do you have an answer?
No . . . you leave that – and move on.
Hence people like Pipes have left you.
And people like Geller who are at your level support you.
One day . . . .even Spencer will leave you.
– – –
"Muhammad’s notion of a super religion with undisputed authority was the inspiration for Hitler’s super race."
No it wasn't – it was to spread his "Aryan Race" – Islam had nothing to do with it. Obviously as Islam does NOT preach Racism.
– – –
Look the above comment:
"They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire."
Sina's did NOT stop to consider the stupidity of this . . . .Single race is NOT something Islam preaches.
So how would have this happened.
– – –
"'You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
As this shows . . . Hitler wasn't picky!
So is this the basis he builds his er . . . . arguments on – surely not!
– – –
"There is no doubt that Hitler admired Muhammad and found Islam appealing. He was attracted by the penchant for violence by which Islam expanded. There was also a common connection of Jew-hatred. "
Yet Hitler would have chosen ANYTHING.
Once can make similar case for his Atheism violence as . . . the Pope did!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11332515
– – –
This is all to please his new Masters the Christians . . .
Else:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
– – –
One can make cases for practically ANY ideology an its influence on Hitler! Yes – even Judaism . . .
How so. . .
Is it not the Jews that keep the bloodline er . . . pure.
This is what Hitler wanted to do. . . .hence he was influenced by the Jews.
To keep the race pure is NOT a Muslim Ideal – but a Jewish one.
– – –
Among eastern religions, Hitler described religious leaders such as "Confucius, Buddha, and Mohammed" as providers of "spiritual sustenance".
Wiki.
– – –
Where did Hitler's symbol the Swastika came from . . .
Hinduism.
He could have gone for . . .
In fact Nazis claimed that its was the Aryans that established the Vedic Religion . . . a forerunner to Hinduism and Buddhism.
– – –
As I point out . . . .Sina has long got rid of his rationality. Hate is a powerful emotion. . . . hence he as descended into such hypocrisy!
It is INTERESTING to note that . . .
Hitlers religious views flitted from Christianity to Atheism!
Something he shares in common with Sina himself.
– – –
This is why I say . .. . this person is REGULARLY defeated in these comments sections . . .
Hence why he just moves on!
This available for all who choose and follow DHARMA the greatest and noblest philosophy handed down to humanity . That is why the aryans are called noble people. But you choose to follow the monster Mo and want to be a MOHAMMADEN !! You choose to be in darkness and follow hatred and killings, sex, slavery. It is obvious you dont use your brain !!! It is written all over you. ISLAM = hatred+Killing+ rape_loot_sex+slavery , discrimination. You wallow in your filth like a pig.
TO ALL ::: It is clear that after 1200 yrs of killing of hussein by yazid at karbala , the SHI'a sect of ISLAMISTS beat their heads and breasts and spill blood, obviously to take revenge against SUNNIS . Thwe SHI'a s parade around and weep and cry and remember the death of Hussein and pledge to take revenge against SUNNIS . Sunnis do not want this parade to see !! that is why in SUNNI majority countries this parade is not allowed. in countries like PAKISATAN , where there are enough SHI'A followers , there will always be attacks on the parade and several killings .
Nameless,faceless follower ,mohammaden of the monster MO;; You cant understand be cause you are a moslem. You are in the NISHA of ISLAMIC poison, fully upto the throat . What is the need to defend ISLAM ? How can you defend evil, cruel, wicked, hate filled, intolerant, fascist, , killing, darkness of ISLAM ? or MO ? ISLAM is pure poison from top to bottom . ISLAM is not for human civilization. ISLAM is a terrible, terrible religion !!! Know truth. Read sira, Read Hadis, Read QQUURRAAN !! See,observe, analyze ISLAMIC countries, ISLAMIC societies, ISLAMIC culture and ISLAMIC history. What do you find there ? Pitch darkness, cruelty, loot, rape, killing, destrructions,invasions and discrimination !!! slavery, sex are the perks of ISLAM for moslems. ISLAMIC ALLAH was a pimp, Mo was a criminal on any account . How can you follow MO , unless you want to be a wicked, cruel, evil, guy with all hatred and poison in your heart !!!
"He sure warned his followers, Matthew 24:11 – And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. … "
When it suits his purpose . . . Bible is fairly tales. . . .
Then again it isn't.
One can smell the lies and hypocrisy.
"They are tales of what allegedly happened. What Moses or Joshua said to his followers at that time do not apply to all the Jews all the times. "
Right . . . see the sheer hypocrisy and fallacy of the argument!
This person has LONG since given up on Rationality.
– – –
"Do you see any Jew killing anyone? "
Yes . . . in the place where they are confined at.
– – –
"Have they done this ever in the recorded history?"
A poor argument – when one points out that Jew have ALWAYS been a small comparatively small group.
The chosen ones. Who do not wish to er . . . muddy the blood lines.
– – –
= = =
"On the other hand this is what Muslims do all the time all over the world. "
Obviously it isn't.
"Jews kill no one."
Actually NOT true . . what else do you call Israel/Palestine.
Oh those American Jews that move to West Bank for instance?
Are they the same one's giving you money?
Like I said – hate is a powerful emotion – you have scarified you rationality then descended into hypocrisy and lies.
– – –
"Everyone else has grown out of that barbarity. "
Yet Sina' was quoting the WARS USA had been in.
Revenge attacks on Afghanistan.
Again – war in Iraq?
That sounds like real peace.
– – –
Consider the death toll of World War 2 . . . .
No . . . . this could just be the eye of the storm.
– – –
"Everyone else has grown out"
Right . . .give him half a chance . .. he would condemn likes of Russia and China . . .
So one wonders – who is everyone else?
Jews kill no one. They go after science and commerce. This business of fighting and killing is only an Islamic business. Everyone else has grown out of that barbarity.
@no name… are you saying that the journey taken by muhammad to heaven was a "metaphor" and not an actual flight to heaven on al burak?
J Stillwater
@no name… yes… I understand that this is what the qur'an says about the people… but this says nothing about the actual scriptures… this is saying that the PEOPLE were mincing words… in other words… not teaching the truth as found in their scriptures and forgetting a good part of the message that was in them… it's not speaking about the actual scriptures… the scriptures… according to the qur'an were preserved…. it's only the people that were doing the wrong things… remember the story of muhammad when the jews were flogging an adulterer? The law was right there for them to read, but they didn't practice stoning… so muhammad said… bring me your scriptures… it wasn't the scriptures that were corrupted, it was the people and their practice of the preserved and guarded scriptures…
J Stillwater
I can sense you basically lack perception to understand scriptures related with religion and belief. You can't manifest metaphysical aspects , you can't sense factual messages , metaphors. !!!
What you do actually I call mincing chicken and making balls.There is no end to your stupidity If you can't understand even scientific method and completely in denial mode. That is atheism all about lol
Qur'an 5 :113 But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
@no name… finally… to your comment about the scientific method… and about the bulb and light, etc.
You're using the same analogy as the "flies come from meat" belief held by many people before they understood the fly life cycle and how it included a larva stage. They used to believe that flies actually came right out of the meat…. they were wrong because they couldn't see the whole picture yet.
In the same way… god could have a son and we have no clue about the process…. at the same time… it may also be impossible for god to have a son… how are we supposed to know one way or the other? God created man from what? Did god create man from mud? Could god have used air? Sure… could he have used the wind… sure… he's god… all powerful… if he wants a son… why can't he have one? I'm not saying jesus is the son of god… that's what HE claimed… and the jews took it to mean he was claiming to be god…
Now… can god take the form of a man? Why not? Didn't god take the form of a pillar of cloud and a burning bush? How about the wheel within a wheel that ezekiel saw?
With god… all things are possible… right?
J Stillwater
@no name… thank you for your answer… yes… I understand that this is your opinion… but where do you get the idea that the bible has been corrupted?
There are MANY things in the qur'an and in muhammad's life that are contradictory to a lot of things… but it is circular reasoning to suggest that just because the qur'an contradicts other scriptures, it is THOSE OTHER scriptures which are incorrect… do you see how this is circular? You are assuming the truth of the qur'an to disprove other scriptures…
Also… when speaking of religion… there is no such thing as common sense… I'll give you an example…
muhammad said he flew to heaven on a horse/mule creature in the middle of the night… but first he flew to some mosque somewhere… nobody knows which mosque… but that's not important…
What's important is that he flew "up" to heaven without any sort of protection… no protection from the cold, the zero vacuum of space, the subzero temperatures, no oxygen… etc. Now… which is more far-fetched? Jesus being the son of god, or muhammad flying on a mule-creature to heaven through environments we KNEW would have killed him good and dead?
That's why I'm saying… you can't use your own perspective to judge another perspective… you have to become objective in order to see things clearly.
So, what objective proof do you have that the bible has been corrupted?
J Stillwater
Leave it egghead for Hitler going in details . People you call Arya even don't follow those commands ! lol
Aryan is a race but whatever is according to your book !! ha ha ha
Correction : Aryans r Hindus ,Hindus r aryans.
I told you one simple thing that Jesus is prophet and he is not god or son of god.
Claiming he as god or son of god actually violates flow of communication from universe to earth, violates attributes of god like omnipotence, omniscient. Your illusion is considering bulb as source of light ignoring flow of electrons and voltage generator at other end coz you don't have insight to see those. This thing proves corruption in doctrine according to scientific method.
These quotations actually contradict with Islam's basic message of Allah not having partners with him which is the shahada . This thing proves corruption in doctrine according to Islam
Following additives which represent your stupid estimation of opponent . I have filtered from your comment
I think it is a bad idea to get your proof from islam… because when you do, the reasoning is circular… in other words… islam, which hasn't been proven to be true, is saying that the gospel is corrupted… in other words, we're taking the word of something that has not been proven reliable beyond doubt…@no name… I have no idea what your last post means… absolutely no idea….
Again… can you show me your "proof" that leads you to believe the bible is corrupted? I think it is a bad idea to get your proof from islam… because when you do, the reasoning is circular… in other words… islam, which hasn't been proven to be true, is saying that the gospel is corrupted… in other words, we're taking the word of something that has not been proven reliable beyond doubt…
So, do you have any other proofs that the bible has been corrupted?
J Stillwater
Can you tell me why are you dumb and troll?
When Allah don't accept partner that says all !!!. Look there is a messenger, there is a message and there is a god.
Even if you manifest with scientific methods its Truth. There is a flow of communication from universe to world through medium.
If you don't understand its contradicting basic in message , you are waste of time !
Who killed who and rest of is your story I have nothing to do !!!
You better read those verse again in that reply.
Christians definitely sending Jews to hell and Jews are sending Christians to hell.
@no name… can you explain why this is "obvious" to you? That is not proof… that is your opinion about what is obvious or not obvious… which is not proof.
Can you show me your proof regarding the corruption of the Injeel?
You see… to the Jewish religious leaders, a person claiming to be the "son of god" is the same thing as claiming to BE god… because in hebrew religious theory, god can have no division… in other words… if god has a son… that son IS god… if god has a hand… that hand IS god… because god is indivisible…
When jesus claimed he was the son of god… he was stating, and the leaders understood, he IS god… and that's why they wanted him dead… they tore their clothing and cried BLASPHEMY!!!
When Jesus told them it was HE who was spoken of by the prophet daniel… they freaked out… why? Because he was saying he was to be their judge (a claim only GOD can make). All of this has always been part of the injeel… since the very beginning… and i don't know where you get the idea it is something that was added later… can you tell me where you get this idea? Can you show me your proof that is more than your "opinion?"
Christian religious theory requires for Jesus to be the son of god… because of the redemption he was to bring… he had to be born directly from god, and not from under Adam… because offspring of adam brought adam's lineage of sin and curse. Jesus had to be a "new adam" in order for his mission to be successful. This is the gospel… always has been.
J Stillwater
@No name… you mentioned those christians and Jews "before prophet muhammad"… very convenient… but you and I are discussing TODAY'S christians and jews… we're discussing whether or not TODAY'S christians or jews will go to hell if they do not believe in muhammad… or if they believe jesus is the son of god… and your answer is????
All this began, when you answered a post above… Mr. Sina wrote:
" Do Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Bahais, Mormons go to heaven according to Islam? The answer is no. "
YOU replied…
"If you lower your hate mongering that will help you using your brain instead !!!"
So… speaking of Jews and Christians of OUR time… which is what Mr. Sina was speaking of (since bahais and mormons are included in his list)… will Jews go to heaven if they do not believe in muhammad… or will christians go to heaven if they believe jesus is the son of god (which they have done since before jesus was crucified… in fact… that's WHY jews wanted to crucify him).
Again, THE reason the jews wanted to kill jesus… They asked him if he was the son of god… and he answered them in the affirmative… and they freaked out! Also, when they asked him if he was the son of abraham… he answered… using the very name of god: "Before abraham was… I AM." Again… they freaked out… and from that moment… they sought for a way that they might kill him. That's "the Gospel." Always has been.
J Stillwater
Its obvious which is written " Jesus as son of god " "Jesus as god" state bible is corrupted and not from Injeel !!!
One thing about you , you also play Rubik's Cube this way to that way to prove your stupidity.. too much exercise to say simple things !!! Remember religion is simple to understand !
Where is dear Slave of Prophet ? If I am Not Mistaken, Dr Zakir Naik told Muslims to pray for Yazid.
Anyone making prophet or anyone partner with Allah will go to hell !
Qur'an 5:116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
Qur'an 2: 62 Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] – those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
You need to upgrade your spectacles I mentioned Injeel somewhere please double check !
@no name… also… can you point me to the places in the qur'an where it says the bible has been "so corrupted?" I'd like to know where you, and many other muslims are getting this notion. The qur'an gives the highest level of authority and authenticity to the Torah and the Gospel… and all the history of the Jews including David, Moses, Solomon, Abraham, Jesus, etc.
Behold:
How can allah be asking his muslims to believe in, or "perform the religion" from a corrupted book? How can the qur'an "confirm" that which is corrupted? In order for the qur'an to "confirm" something, the "something" must be available in its pure form so people can make the comparison between the thing and the "confirmation" of the thing.
J Stillwater
Qur'an as in reference to violence understood with strategic intelligence only tends to peace.
It guides as in war how to deal with enemies. There are verses which encourage truce, end confliction , call for unity for common cause.
@No Name… Can you answer my two questions? The ones about the Jews and Christians going to hell? Let me restate them:
If Christians believe that Jesus is the son of god… they will go to hell… right?
If Jews believe that muhammad was a false prophet (as they must, according to the Torah's requirements for who is a prophet and who is not), then they will go to hell… right?
Also… how can you say the bible is corrupted when the qur'an says otherwise and admonishes muslims to claim full belief in it?
Here is what the qur'an states about it:
How could the qur'an make this statement if the information it is referring to is corrupt? Does that make any sense to you? The muslims of muhammad's time must have had access to the uncorrupted scriptures of the jews and christians for this verse to make any sense. Your comment makes no sense in light of the clear teaching in the qur'an.
J Stillwater
@.
Firstly Hitler was “Anarya or non-Arya” not “Arya”
According to Arya's scripture “Veda” there are two types of people 1 Arya and 2 Anarya or non-Arya . Opposite of Arya is Anarya
Arya is a Sanskrit word which mean "Noble, great, truthful". Veda states “Krinnvanto Vishvam Aryam” i.e., make the whole world Arya. For more understanding likes of Buddha, Ali Sina, Rama are Arya.
Anarya/non-anarya: are those who are devilish (devil like) in nature i.e., they tell lies, commit thefts, robberies, looting, murders, rape, speak rudely, do not wield good character etc.
For more clearly whoever is following these commands of God is Arya
Yajurved 19.77
– All humans at all times should have passion only for adoption of truth and rejection of falsehood. This should be a continuous process and one should keep detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence.
Yajurved 36.18
– Humans should never hate any other living being and interact with each other with love and affection
– Humans should consider all living beings as their friends and work for prosperity of everyone
Rigveda 10.161.2
– walk together in the path of truth without bias, injustice and intolerance
– talk to each other to enhance knowledge, wisdom and affection without malice and hatred
– keep working together to enhance knowledge and bliss
Is Hitler following all these commands?
I'm not sure I've ever met a Christian who doesn't believe Jesus is the son of god…Some stupid Christians think Jesus as biological son of God. Bible is so corrupted that failed to describe who is medium , what is the message , who is Almighty ? Father or Father figure. Trinity mambo jumbo. Everyone who fond of writing wrote bible !!! But you may find some sort of Injeel in those versions which hold truth and Muslims don't deny Injeel.
" I'm sure I've never met a jew who believed that muhammad is a prophet… so… "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0YbC0BJ8g
You need multi-dimensional approach to understand Islam. Its 360 degree about life with all aspects. Its not a novel or sort of collections of goodie goodie things for kids. Its life !
Hitler was Aryan like Hindus who migrated from Persia to India in past and made India as their home land. Superiority , inferiority about races are clearly visible in Vedas and Hinduism !
Swastika sign of Nazis is also religious sign of Hindus !
Another great example of the kuffar Hindu (Indian) army saving Bangladeshi muslims from their Pakistani muslim brethren was the Bangladesh war in 1971
@1234…. the following link will get you started on your study of the history of what occurred after the death of Muhammad. Ask yourself this question as you study the following link and other resources: "How is it possible that a prophet of god didn't name a successor that would follow in his footsteps after he died?" Also… ask yourself: "How is it possible that the killing and bloodshed began between muslims immediately after muhammad died, as muslims from his inner circle began to struggle for power?" Finally, ask yourself: "If muhammad is supposed to be the final prophet, bringing the clear and final message of god, why are there so many factions, and so much bloodshed in islam, on a daily basis, between muslims?"
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/islam.html
J Stillwater
@No Name…. so, if Christians believe that Jesus is the son of god… they will go to hell… right?
If Jews believe that muhammad was a false prophet (as they must, according to the Torah's requirements for who is a prophet and who is not), then they will go to hell… right?
I'm not sure I've ever met a Christian who doesn't believe Jesus is the son of god…
I'm sure I've never met a jew who believed that muhammad is a prophet… so…
Also… didn't muhammad say that most muslims would be in hell? Didn't he say that the muslims would branch out into 73 different sects, and that only one of them would be in paradise, and the rest would be in hell?
What a mess islam is… at least in most religions, there is some security given regarding the afterlife. In islam, it's hell here on earth and its hell in the hereafter… what is the purpose of islam?
J Stillwater
@Serpent… just a quick detail… If you read the entire chapter in Mark 13, and also the parallel chapters in Luke 21, and Matthew 24, you'll see that Jesus was answering a direct question from his disciples… they were asking when the temple would be destroyed (which would signal the end of the levitical age and usher in the age of Christ and his bride).
Jesus answered them by saying: "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."
So, imagine you're one of the 12, and Jesus says that to you. You're expecting that this will occur in your generation (the next 40 years according to hebrew custom). And what happened? Exactly what Jesus said would happen. The temple, was destroyed by the roman army in 70ad, ushering in the new "age."
Have a look at "Preterism" on google. Study it carefully. This idea of a future rapture, etc., is a western construct. The book of Hebrews says in chap. 11 that they had already come to the new jerusalem…. which is a covenant, not a location.
Anyway… we're in this mess with muslims because people misunderstood this simple language between Jesus and his disciples… now everybody thinks this is speaking of some earthy kingdom, which contradicts what Jesus said about his kingdom being "not of this world."
Preterism… look it up.
J Sillwater
I never said that so called Muslims only misuse the name of the God or the religion. Marxist use the name of their idea logy.
Who am "I" to believe in God. True Believer is above "I".
Can you tell me from which store you purchased your brain., because
I am very impressed by the way you "think":!!!
When the end of the age comes, family members will kill each other.
And brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; (Mark 13:12) "
That's a prediction of what will happen during "end times" not a command
No atheist as being projected would utter these words"
I agree,Hitler was not exactly a materialist atheist but his views was more of a concoction of everything,including atheistic phlisophies and pagan/occult/theistic philosophies
I am not fool like Muslim who get provoked and start abusing and violence all over the place.
Jews don't kill one another because they are minority…..ever noticed that
a small family love one another, while there is always conflicts among the
big family.
Bible openly prescribe genocide "
Not every verse in the bible is considered christian edict.There's detailed ritual slaughter of animals,circumcision,as well as killing adulterers,murderering people who work on the sabbath (holy day),eye for an eye,dress and dietary codes ,etc are all in the bible but they were not practiced but rejected by the founder of christianity and the first christians.
=======================
If you read "Mein Kampf" you will find plenty of references and inspirations from bible that prove Hitler was believing christian. No atheist as being projected would utter these words " image of God ,Lord , bountiful Creator ,eternal creator, sin , faith in the goodness of God, Will of God , against God's Creation and God's Will ,God be praised and thanked "
That part in bold that you quoted is used by almost every religion and is not limited to christianity.
Dear next year !
Dear Satan Dharma you are one of those eggs which are boiled , no chicken out of it !!!
He certainly used his Christianity as a pretext to terminate the Jews"
Exactly,Hitler used christianity as a pretext which makes his allegiance to christianity disingenuous.Hitler's Table Talk is a true testament to his anti-christian sentiments
His form of writing is some what mystic without disclosing who is he pointing. Only he know who is he pointing. These are like bare missiles can be interpreted any direction !
@vijay
We can find what hate mongers think about you statement with branching
If
{
these people == Muslims;
response.write == blame Islam;
}
Else if
{
these people == Non Muslims;
response.write == blame person;
}
“Bible openly prescribe genocide.”
This is a lie, but then what else is new? You are a Muslim after all.
Apart from the fact that all those stories of killings are fables, and even Moses is most likely as real as Santa Clause, none of the verses in the Bible are prescriptions for genocide. They are tales of what allegedly happened. What Moses or Joshua said to his followers at that time do not apply to all the Jews all the times. Do you see any Jew killing anyone? Have they done this ever in the recorded history?
On the other hand this is what Muslims do all the time all over the world.
@.
Why Allah revealed if he was not able to establish ?
I can tell you the most deceptive of all is the one translated by Rashid Khalifa. Then I find the translation of Yousuf Ali to be the second most deceptive. I generally go to http://www.quranbrowser.org/ and tick the boxes next to Arabic, Pikthall, Shakir and Sher Ali.
Try to read the Arabic and the the translations and you’ll see which ones are more accurate.
Perhaps after reading this, Sina can tell us the difference between the bible and the quran.
As a matter of fact, the quran looks like a little boy who is trying to imitate his father.
Revealed not established. It is revealed later so how come Jesus talk about it ?!
BTW next financial year I have provision of sponsoring impaired cases. be in touch !!
According to Veda there are two category of people in the world Aryan and non-Aryan. Great people like Buddha, Mother Tressa, Rama, Ali Sina, Gandhi, Jesus, Einstein etc. come in Arayn category and likes of Mohammed, Osama, Hitler and rapist, looter, child-molester, terrorist are Non-Aryan.
Ur article is very confusing with many spelling mistakes. I wud really like to know the full story on what occured after the death of Muhammad.
" Do Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Bahais, Mormons go to heaven according to Islam? The answer is no. "
If you lower your hate mongering that will help you using your brain instead !!!
Quran 49:13 "O mankind! [this includes all races and all nations] We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted."
Quran 3:113-3:114
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous."
Qur'an 3:64 "Say: 'O People of the Book ! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).'
Aryans r Indians, Indians r Aryans. Hitler got it totally wrong abt Aryans.
"When the end of the age comes, family members will kill each other."
But, at the beginning of the age, Cain killed his brother. Isn't this
mentioned in the bible?
Maybe he knew there will be false prophet coming claiming to be with him and misleading multitudes. He sure warned his followers, Matthew 24:11 – And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. …
Unlike your prophet I don’t make stupid claims that I cannot prove.
Islam’s Influence on Nazism
Muhammad’s notion of a super religion with undisputed authority was the inspiration for Hitler’s super race. Albert Speer, Hitler’s wartime Minister of Armaments and Munitions, records in his memoirs that Hitler regretted the fact that Muslims failed to penetrate beyond France into Central Europe, during the eighth century:
“Had the Arabs won the battle the world would have been Mohammedan today. For theirs was a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and subjugating all nations to that faith. The Germanic peoples would have become heirs to that religion. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the Germanic temperament. Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate and conditions of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire.
“Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking, ‘You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?”
There is no doubt that Hitler admired Muhammad and found Islam appealing. He was attracted by the penchant for violence by which Islam expanded. There was also a common connection of Jew-hatred.
In 1940 the Nazi Germany produced a movie in the form of documentary called “The Eternal Jew” that served to dehumanize the Jews and prepare for Hitler’s “Final Solution.” The film compared the Jewish people to rats. Why rats? Because it in a hadith. “Abu Huraira reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: A group of Bani Isra’il was lost. I do not know what happened to it, but I think (that it ‘underwent a process of metamorphosis) and assumed the shape of rats.”
The movie characterized the Jews as wandering cultural parasites and depicted them as finding pleasure in money and a hedonist lifestyle. The Quran 2:96 says Jews are the greediest of all humankind, who would like to live 1000 years.
Carl Jung, in an interview conducted in 1930s, referring to the rise of Nazism in Germany said, “We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Muhammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with a wild god. That can be the historic future.”
Elements of Islamic militarism found their way into Hitler’s theology. Like Muhammad, Hitler believed that might is right. He preached that his, was a “master” religion, because it would “create mastery and avoid comforting lies.”
[From Understanding Muhammad 6th edition]
There is not a trace of honesty in you Muslims. It is amazing.
Islam is the only religion that does not recognize other religions. Do Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Bahais, Mormons go to heaven according to Islam? The answer is no. It doers not matter how good these people may be. They will all go to hell because they are not Muslims. So how much hypocrisy you want to employ and who do you think you are fooling when you come to my blog and tell these lies?
The only religions you claim to accept are Christianity and Judaism and that too is a deception. The religions you accept are figments of Muhammad’s sick mind not the actual religions that Jews and Christians believe.
It is a shame to lie so blatantly but this is Islam and Islam and lies go hand in hand.
Christianity is not forgotten, nor is Buddhism and any other religion. This is yet another shameless lie that Muhammad concocted and his brain dead followers rehash mindlessly ever since. Muhammad said he is foretold in the older scriptures and that the Jews and Christians were waiting for him and recognized him as soon as they heard about him. There is no mention of that liar in any book prior to him. Hence the claim that these books are altered. How could all the Jews and Christians who were distressed all of the the world agree to alter their holy books exactly in the same way when we know the Christians of the East and the Christians of the West were not even talking to each other and had fundamental disagreements? The lies of Muhammad were so obvious that only a fool or a Muslim can believe in them.
He said he was recognized by the monks in Syria when he was a child and when he went there at the age of 25. How they recognized him? The saw he had a redness in his eyes (blepharitis), he had a mole on his shoulder, he sat beneath a tree where only prophets sit and they even know that he is an orphan. How ridiculous! And 1.5 otherwise sane people believe in this balderdash and still expect respect.
@Rainbow
But he was following Islam also to some extent. His hate for Jews is example of it. Islam also teaches to hate with Jews and other faiths.
________coz according to his opinion, this race is superior to other races.____
That is another proof Hitler was follower of Islam. Muslim also believe their race is superiors then others and Arabs believe they are most superior.
If you believe in any god……can you, for your god's sake, write only one
sentence that has a meaning ?
@.
"Islam is only religion that say it is final revelation which is the same delivered and forgotten."
Is Shahada "La ill allah mohammad rasool allah"was existed before Mohammed. If No? How can you say Jesus also got the same Shahada but later people forgot it?
___________Islam is only religion that recognize existence of other faiths on earth_________
Can Ali Sina be allowed to follow his faith in Islamic country? If No, how can you say Islam recognize other faiths. But in Hindu nation ali Sina is fully allowed to follow and preach his faith.
Read what I wrote carefully….I said Hitler used Muslims for awhile as allies,
and his plan was to finish them later since his goal is to allow only the
Aryan race to survive, coz according to his opinion, this race is superior
to other races. All the Europeans know this as a fact, and they knew
his intentions regarding Muslims.
@ ·
You friend rainbow said above Islam was not existed before Mohammed.
Here is her words.
"Islam was established about six centuries after Jesus. "
Was he/she wrong?
Islam is only religion that recognize existence of other faiths on earth.
Islam is only religion that say it is final revelation which is the same delivered and forgotten.
Islam is only practical religion that understood diversity and confliction between faiths and have guidance about truce , fight , resolutions
All other religions are either blind or frog or strongly reject other religions as devil worshipers !!!
I have visited link posted about Hinduism, Vedas and Islam which let you know what is in your Hinduism and Vedas !!! http://www.IslamHinduism.com
@Rainbow
__________Hitler's hatred of the Jews was very much inspired by Islamic_________
How can you this is a lie? Do you not think Hitler was follower of Islam in many ways like his hate for Jews?
Sina…You said: "Hitler's hatred of the Jews was very much inspired by Islamic and encouraged by his Muslims supporters like al Banna."
Isn't there any limitation for your lies? Even your fans know (inwardly) that this is
a big lie. I do not care about the reality of Islam, but I care about the truth, and
I hate liars. I told you earlier, you have no respect neither for yourself nor for your
readers since you are providing them with false information.
@Rainbow
_______lslam was established about six centuries__________
So, you are agree Islam was not exist before Mohammed?
Just to make things clear to you: HITLER used the crucifixion of Jesus to
Justify his (HITLER'S) crimes against the Jews.
I advise you to rush now to the nearest mental institute.
How can Jesus be against Islam? Islam was established
about six centuries after Jesus.
BS……some declare that the root of Hitler's hate toward the Jews was his mother,
who, in Hitler's childhood, worked for a Jew, and that Jew treated her with contempt
and cruelty. He certainly used his Christianity as a pretext to terminate the Jews.
Regarding your first paragraph, you either know nothing about politics and wars
and the tactics of wars…..or, as usual, you are lying. Hitler never liked Islam,
but he temporarily used Muslims as his allies, and he was planning to finish them
later, since his goal was to let only the Aryans live.
You are an elderly, and you should have some shame that prevents you from
fabricating amazing stories about Islam by connecting it to all the notorious
leaders of the history.
@Rainbow
Do you not think Jesus was against Islam?
Yes, he also used the crucifixion of Jesus to justify his crimes against the Jews, coz
according to Christianity, the Jews are behind the killing of Jesus.
Some people bring in the God for their personal vested interests, worsts are those who bring in the name of the religion.
The Jewish religious doctrine consists primarily in prescriptions for keeping the blood of Jewry pure and for regulating the relation of Jews among themselves, but even more with the rest of the world; in other words, with non-Jews. But even here it is by no means ethical problems that are involved, but extremely modest economic ones. Concerning the moral value of Jewish religious instruction, there are today and have been at all times rather exhaustive studies (not by Jews; the drivel of the Jews themselves on the subject is, of course, adapted to its purpose) which make this kind of religion seem positively monstrous according to Aryan conceptions. The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took to the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-and this against their own nation. —- Mein Kampf
According to Christianity, Jews worship devil coz they don't love Jesus but Muslim does !
Jesus denied a disciple time to bury his father.
Another of the disciples said to him, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father."
But Jesus said to him, "Follow me, and leave the dead to bury their own dead." (Matt. 8:21-22)
Jesus came to break families apart. Whoever loves his parents more than him is not worthy of him.
For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
and a man's foes will be those of his own household.
He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 12:51-53)
Whoever leaves their family will inherit everlasting life.
And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
But many that are first will be last, and the last first. (Matt. 19:29-30)
You can call your father Dad, but don't call him Father.
And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. (Matt: 23:9)
When the end of the age comes, family members will kill each other.
And brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death; (Mark 13:12)
Jesus demanded that his disciples hate their family.
"If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
I am neither interested in Christianity or bible or Hitler who was he! There were Turk Muslims who saved Jews from massacre. Reading so many bibles like spinning your head.
We are discussing "When Muslims did that Islam did When Non-Muslims did that their personal." And here Hitler justified his actions according to Christianity. But Hitler is blamed for himself not Christianity . According to Islam he will be in Hell
Try defending bible like you offend Qur'an. I bet you will find yourself in mental asylum next day lol.
http://www.evilbible.com
I am fed up with the ignorance demonstrated by those who say Hitler was a Christian.I think it makes them feel better by 'guilt reduction by association'. Muslims tend to think every white or European person with a 'christian' name is Christian.When and how did Hitler become a christian? When did he repent of his sins? When did he publicly confess Jesus christ(a Jew) as his Lord, Saviour and God.When did he receive the Holy Spirit? How often did he pray, go to church,read the Bible. Did he try to emulate Jesus to the best of his ability?Then don't say hewa a hristian because he was never one.By the way, I am black and have read Mein Kampf. Only the quran has a similar level of hatred.
amniriadh / rainbow
your split personailty deceives you again.. losing track of what you said and what you believe..
oooo EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME oooooooooooooooo
next you will convince yourself to blow yourself up and evryone that disagrees with the voices in your head.. which voice do i believe? you must have many by now
you seem to have a mental block..
Jesus died on a cross because he criticised the old testament… very public crucifixition.
Christians follow the teaching of Jesus first, that is why they can call themselves christians.. not a real brain strain there..
Jesus teach the two greatest laws that are fundemental all laws and prophets..
1// Love thy God with all your heart and soul and mind
2// Love they neighbour as he has taught us, which includes loving thy enemy..
you can not deny this, you just choose to ignore it because it goes against everything your Mohammad teaches.. poor thing
Mr. Sina, my question is off-topic but which koranic Arabic-English translation is considered most authentic by Arab muslims? I would appreciate your input. And please keep up the great work. I read your site daily. Thank you.
Bible openly prescribe genocide ! Hitler killed all sinners according to Christianity, but not according to Muslim scripture.
1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Am'alek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Mein Kampf "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator:by defending myself against the Jew,I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
If you read "Mein Kampf" you will find plenty of references and inspirations from bible that prove Hitler was believing christian. No atheist as being projected would utter these words " image of God ,Lord , bountiful Creator ,eternal creator, sin , faith in the goodness of God, Will of God , against God's Creation and God's Will ,God be praised and thanked "
@Ali Sina… Hello Mr. Sina. I'm curious if you received the Sky News article I sent over to you.
J Stillwater
@Rainbow… there is no such thing as "the whole nation." There are factions within Iraq… many, many factions… one for every region of that country. Some are still loyal to Saddam's family… hell, some ARE Saddam's family. Some are sunni, some are shia… and on and on it goes…
When the troops went into Iraq… who were they fighting? Phantoms? No, they were fighting real people…who were using schools and mosques as hiding places… and using children in schools as human shields… nice…
If Iraq wants protection from Iran… they have to pay for it somehow… and that's what this is about… it is about the United Nations membership that they still hold to this day… they are free to leave the United Nations… but they won't, because it means they will lose their protection of the member nations against Iran…
Sure, there are politics and foreign policy/energy policy issues to be discussed, but there always are… that's the way the world has worked since before muhammad's time… and even muhammad knew this… which is why he waited until he had the support of tribes in medina before attacking mekkah…
Everybody wants this to be about the big, bad west, against the poor, victims of islam. Sorry, it's not about that at all… it has nothing to do with the west vs east… it has to do with shia vs sunni… and if the "west" withdraws their protection from the sunni majority in iraq… shia iran will come calling… and the blood will REALLY flow, then. Don't kid yourself… it is the sunnis and shias inside iraq who are at war… with or without the west…
J Stillwater
I am not talking about Saddam, I know that he was a dictator, tyrant and
also stupid on top of this. I am talking about a whole nation. If Saddam
was the problem, they could easily kill him without letting the innocent
people to suffer and die and pay for his foolishness. The real story is much greater than that, it is beyond your comprehention.
“I think Muslims by and large confirm Ali Sina by rejecting Pipes and Jasser just as categorically as they reject Ali Sina.”
Very good point. In fact if Muslims in large numbers supported Zuhdi Jasser and agreed with Daniel Pipes I would be proven wrong, something I would be very happy to see and we would all work together to defeat the “radicals” and live in peace together. Ruefully that is only a wishful thinking. I is not going to happen. If it did, I would be proven wrong, which would make me the happiest person. Yes I would be delighted to be wrong.
Adolf Hitler was not Christian. He gave lip service to Christianity in the same way Obama gives lip service to it. Neither of these two men are/were Christian. Hitler, like Obama was an admirer of Islam and lamented that the crusaders won and Germans did not become Muslim. Of course he also thought that since Aryans are a superior race to Arabs, eventually the Muslim Germans would have ruled the Islamic empire.
Hitler’s hatred of the Jews was very much inspired by Islamic and encouraged by his Muslims supporters like al Banna.
@Rainbow… your comment seems to suggest that "non muslim" people "attacked" iraq without provocation… let's get to the truth of the matter, shall we? It's amazing how quickly people forget things since the advent of the internet.
Saddam Hussein declared war on the United Nations when they sent troops in to oversee weapons inspection activities as was their right, as agreed by Saddam himself as a member of the United Nations.
As a member of the United Nations, Saddam had certain obligations. One of those obligations had to do with armament and disarmament (and NOT just WMD. It included many stipulations which Saddam (i.e. Iraq) had agreed to. At the time the United Nations troops entered Iraq… Saddam was in violation of 12 separate resolutions. In other words, he promised to do certain things… and he (in the name of Iraq) violated every one of those promises. It is the right, of the United Nations to enforce the agreements of its member states. Period. If a nation joins the UN, they are giving the UN power to police them, in exchange for other amenities.
On March 17, 2003, after repeated attempts to get him to comply with is promises, Saddam was given 48 hours to vacate the country or face military action (this was a kindness on the part of the United Nations). Saddam and his baathists refused, and then, when the UN inspectors and military escort entered the country, Saddam declared war on the United Nations (not the other way around).
Here is the timeline of events (2 sources): http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/iraqchron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Secur…
J Stillwater
Adolf Hitler was actually a Bible believing Christian, he used Christianity to justify the evil he did against Jews and other people.
New Testament condemns "being of this world", or being materialistic, Hitler shows how the Jews are against True Christianity, and Hitler’s Lord, Jesus Christ, made no secret his attitude towards the Jewish People.The Bible makes it very clear, that if you don’t love Jesus, your God is the devil. Therefore, the Jews worship the Devil and are evil.
[youtube b-OR1bFirYw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-OR1bFirYw youtube]
Dear stupidity I am not subject in this.
These lines are from song. I posted in reference with grief and getting out of it as in martyrdom. There is no question of unbelief for dumb reasoning about Allah from animals !
he dries your H2O, but dwells in H2O (as per holy Qua ran).
their Islam discourage knowledge ,you encourage your knowledge very simple ,you will survive .
The actions of Muslims corroborates with Islam ,where as it is not with non-Muslims ,that is why it becomes personal of them.
"There is a reason why Pipes left you."
I don't know for sure that he did, because he is still linked to Robert Spencer and Robert Spencer is still linked to Ali Sina, in SION.
But suppose it was true, and we consider that Pipes is allied to Zuhdi Jasser. The division between Ali Sina and Pipes-Jasser is a big opportunity for Muslims to prove Ali Sina wrong and Pipes right. But Muslims in vast majority paint Ali Sina and Daniel Pipes-Zuhdi Jasser with the same brush if they know them at all. And do not support but reject Jasser. I think that by that massive rejection or ignoring Ali Sina is proven right. Among those Westerners, Indians, democratic people who know about Ali Sina and Daniel Pipes and the reaction of Muslims to them both. I think Muslims by and large confirm Ali Sina by rejecting Pipes and Jasser just as categorically as they reject Ali Sina.
"All atheists are dirty.
"You can NOT be rational as you are an atheist."
No, you, and Muslims, never say such things. But why? Because the atheists could not care less if you said it.
As for the second two:
"Atheists should be BOMBED into submission.
I am calling for an apartheid between Muslims and Atheists."
I think many atheists would be responding with debate and arguments. They would look at all sides of the accusations and the arguments for and against and argue that they were in favor of the full democratic system.
And ask what it was about their attitude-behavior that antagonized Muslims. And how much antagonized are Muslims anyway by atheists, who seem to adhere to the free and democratic system of the West and other countries in large majority?
Average age of anti-islamist visitors is 60+ !!!
"Speaking to hidden doubting Muslims" It's very interesting symptom from anti-Islamist.
"On one hand you will condemn Muslims – on the other hand . .. . you follow the same values.'
Well, I try to learn from you here. I may have used double standards, in part. So I said that you too may have good reasons to insult the people here, just like Ali Sina and Julia had their good reasons to insult Muslims. I should treat the behavior-attitude of Ali Sina and Julia towards Muslims and your attitude towards counterjihadists with the same standards, OK.
Fair Play should be played in the whole world, not just in the West, but also in the Islamic countries.
And in my opinion if you were a "good Westerner", then you should look at the level of democracy and good laws of countries. And I for one really put all democratic countries before all dictatorial countries. And I use measurements of democracy and freedom from freedom house.
You on the other hand have frequently stated anti-American and anti-Israel-statements. If those were coming from impeccable democratic people advocating better democratic practice in more democratic countries, that would be good.
But if persons criticize Democratic countries MORE than their dictatorial counterparts, then it looks like the critics are in effect in favor of the dictatorial system of the enemies of democracies to me.
Of course this has to be worked out in detail. But on principle when Muslims support and prefer clearly dictatorial states and groups over democratic states, than I am a much more genuine, loyal "Westerner" than those Muslims are.
Well done, J. Stillwater, you, Searchfortruth, Jonmc and Ali Sina himself and perhaps a few others, are well equipped and active to discuss Islamic doctrine in depth with Muslims, especially with this one-man-army-of-Islam, this verbal Sword of Islam; Aminriadh.
As this is not my expertise I rely on you and counterjihadistwebsites for discussing Islam in depth. But I find it fascinating!
And your interactions with Islam-apologists the most. For me it is a bit like playing chess between the 2 sides and a bit like watching an exciting footballmatch.
And I like on occasion to take part in the debate to help you guys, I like to be in your team. And like footballplayers always say; I am not important, what is important is how the team performs.
But winning debates here seems impossible, just not clearly losing them, by ignorance and stupidity and reaching stalemate should be our goal in my opinion, because the other side will never admit defeat, and will always come up with rebuttals, of whatever quality.
No, in my opinion, playing the game here has benefits in somehow speaking to hidden doubting Muslims, however little, and that is more important than winning.
When Muslims did that Islam did When Non-Muslims did that their personal.
@Demsci… you noticed that, too? The thing is, as I've been doing my research for this article I'm writing (thanks to aminriadh/aminthemystic), I've discovered something very interesting in the qur'an. I've discovered that the qur'an actually strictly upholds the things handed down by Moses… this is an amazing thing for me to discover, because of its implications regarding muhammad and his behavior on so many levels.
In addition, it completely destroys the recent muslim argument that the "bible" has been corrupted or "abrogated." In fact, it is quite the contrary. The qur'an gives the highest level of authority and authenticity to not only Moses, but to Jesus and Abraham and several others… and admonishes muslims to follow that religion. (see my answer to rainbow below).
aminriadh/aminthemystic is in a very dangerous spot… and I created that spot on purpose… to make it clear to everyone reading this thread that by their actions alone… muslims are incriminating muhammad by not answering the question about the ten commandments.. because they know the qur'an admonishes them to uphold the religion given to moses, which includes all of the commandments… especially the one about coveting thy neighbor's wife… which muhammad said god violated… opps…
J Stillwater
@Rainbow… nice try… kudos on your effort… but… your opinions are useless in light of the clear teaching of the qur'an… we are not discussing atheism… we are discussing islam… and in islam… the ten commandments are extremely important… here's why… because the qur'an itself gives the highest level of authority to the Book of Moses. At the center of the Book of Moses… are the ten commandments… all other laws in that book flow from these… read the following:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080422064025/http://…
Again… nice try…
J Stillwater
Very nice and wise plan…..if it is not selective, and targets Islam only.
Correction, looking back Historians may well see that SOME Muslims were provoking Non-Muslims before.
I also wonder why they refused to tell us their opinion about the ten
commandments.
Those commandments did not need a "God" to be written.
Moses also deceived his people.
Some of those commandments are practiced even by the atheists
and pagans and other people in this world who don't belong to any
of the major three religions.
Some of the commandments make no sense whatsoever, coz they are
against the human nature…..for example, the one that says or means:
do not desire the possessions of others. I bet that every human
desires what the others have……..he was designed to do so. Without
this quality there would be no achievemnets. So, "God" couldn't have
said this bit of commandment, since he created the humans and he
knows their nature.
Oh, Ali Sina and Julia and I and many other posters pointing this out is a quite regular feature on this website.
Your achillesheel remains that you use blatant double standards in judging on the one hand: Quran-Hadiths-Sira and on the other hand the critics/ debunkers of it, Ali Sina first and foremost. Whom you try to debunk, and for what else than to protect the good reputation and validity of Quran-Hadiths-Sira?
Ultimately you depend on Revelation, which is trumping Reason for you in the case of Quran-Hadiths-Sira. You just never admitted it. But you are NOT simply trying to find the highest truth you can find with ONLY REASON. The element of Revelation is there in your thinking and Reason is not trumping it when the 2 are in contradiction.
But by judging Ali Sina and his book you do fully rely on Reason, on the method of logic, reasoning, providing evidences for claims, avoiding fallacies.
Quran-Hadiths-Sira and Tafseer all should be discussed here just as Ali Sina's oeuvre is discussed here by you, and also with reason trumping revelation, thus using single standards, not double ones, for both.
Your methods, your weapons, can and should and will be used against also against Quran-Hadiths-Sira-Tafseer. Weapons can be used by all, not just you. Weapons I might add, that for a big part were Western in origine, and with which many Westerners can be very good.
Which countless time . . by whom?
One person had the debate . . . . Julia – an he was beaten."""""
That he or she was beaten is NOT YOUR call to make. But in the absence of an independent jury, using clear objective criteria, I will assert that debates between counterjihadists and you tend to end in stalemate.
But we can hope that truthseeking doubting Muslims and others read them, however little and that it will help them to find the highest truth they can find and to make the best life-choices they can make for their hopefully long lives and consequently for their children and for the whole of mankind because of their influence.
Who is to blame?
Political ambitions, human shallow greed to rule others. Imperialism has taken lives, so has Islam. Casualties – Persians, Egyptians, Arabs, Indians, Jews, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Pagans, Sikhs. Islam was a pretext to conquer, it's an Imperialistic ideology. It's time to throw these anti-human ideologies to the dustbins of history and build a beautiful new world where people are not divided on the basis of what they believe,
"huh! Where? When have I spread such hatred."
You did not even comprehend what I said. I talked about Muslims and Islam-apologists everywhere.
"I AM the one willing to have the debate."
Yet you told J. Stillwater to take a hike when he asked you specifically for your opinion about the ten commandments and whether you believed in their validity.
You told Ali that he did not have to answer to every attention seeker, by whom you meant J. Stillwater.
Who is defending or protecting who is not our point. Our point is that
you said: "But when Muslims get killed by non-Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to Islamic terrorism."
Does this sentence of yours apply to the "Gulf War" ? or to killing Muslims
by the Serbs?
Rainbow,
always resort to name calling because you have no logic..
not only do you have zero tolerance, believing in nothing and then wasting your time on nothing is probably grounds for zero understanding..
your only enemy is your own mind..
That war was and is always called "The Gulf War"…….
never "The Persian Gulf War"….
I told you that you are losing it, maybe it is time for you to retire.
"Excuses for NOT producing evidence.
Whereas it is THE WESTERN STANDARD!
That it is THE JOB of claimant to bring evidence."""
I know the Western standards. But people can present opinions, claims without evidence and reason. And it is a fallacy to declare these false or to fail to see the merits in them merely because they are not supported by evidence and reason.
Anyway, you too put up plenty opinions, claims without evidence and reason or enough of it. And we should not mind it of each other, merely use it to our advantage by giving more and better evidence and reason than the opposition.
"As your attempt on Jizyah showed."
I said to Maria-Islamic that her assertion that Jizya and Zakat were about the same size was highly unlikely.
You chastized me saying that I should provide evidence and reason for that, or that I otherwise did not KNOW that.
Then I said that then without evidence Maria-Islamic also did not know the opposite. and that the truthseeking reader could find ample evidence on anti-Islam-websites for my opinion.
And I said that the opposite case, that Jizya was roughly equal to Zakat was indeed highly unlikely and an illogical position. You had no sound rebuttal, only repetitions of your theme; give evidence and reason or your opinion is meaningless or false. But you nearly always withhold acknowledgement of enough evidence and reason, and when it is shown you extensively then evidence and reason are judged by you "mere copy-paste", coming from suspect sources, and "already rebutted".
These details can be shown in your comments-record.
Your conclusion of me not being able to argue about Islam and that my morality failed in this topic that you specifically mentioned was here wrong and maligning me.
Your conclusions in your posts should be considered suspect, untrustworthy in general because such wrong, maligning conclusions about what your opponents say can be and are shown often in these posts.
"I have done it aplenty, read so many articles and quite a few books. "
Name them. . .
– – –
"Muslims or the Islam-defenders who, with some kind of reason, or excuse, withdrew from the discussion after some time, not me, eager as I was to debate this issue and find out the truth and arguments of opponents. Who were unable to come up with enough facts and logic to defend Islam against many accusations, criticisms of counterjihadists. "
Here is WHY I don't believe you . . . .look back at all you posts . . . WHAT facts and figures . . .
Why has it all dried up.
– – –
"THIS is my core, not knowledge of Islam. Islam I only compare with that. Although by now I have quite extensive knowledge about key Islamic texts and doctrine. "
You confirm what I say . . . you are NOT objective and NOT looking for the truth.
But dogmatically anti-Islam.
Yet hypocritically you preach the reverse . . . YOU ask others to be of a standard – WHICH
Once more over an issue I have proven YOU do not follow!
– – –
"And I see danger, competition coming from powerful omnipresent Islam to my beloved full democratic system"
What is THIS beloved democratic system . . . do describe it dear.
– – –
"And also obstruction to expansion of my system, again competition to it, in Islamic countries. "
So . . . you confirm you are an expansionist?
– – –
" It is only natural that I want to defend and promote my beloved full democratic system and want to demote Islam. "
Yes – but hypocrisy, lying , abusing . . . .
On one hand you will condemn Muslims – on the other hand . .. . you follow the same values.
This is why I said.
I am a better "Westerner" than you are!
And far less of a "hypocrite"
– – –
"We can and should respect each other for our commitments, choices. "
What respect?
The one you gave me . . . by all that abuse and swear?
No son . .. . I am NOT like you at all.
I follow good and moral standards . . . YOU don't.
– –
"Fair Play"
Look it up . . . it is British value. . . . maybe you further in Europe have not heard of it.
"
I CAN say that there was and is PLENTY of hatemongering against:
– Jews, Israel, Zionism, America. "
huh! Where? When have I spread such hatred.
Where?
– – –
"And it is pointed out to you countless times that you, by following Islam, support hatemongering, written in the Quran-Hadiths-Sira"
Which countless time . . by whom?
One person had the debate . . . . Julia – an he was beaten. Hence reverted BACK to the old lies.
I AM the one willing to have the debate.
NOT you . . . .Which points to the possibility – YOU are the one with something to hide.
If it is THAT easy – point it out.
– – –
"Bill Warner, whose presentation was passed on here and other anti-Islam-websites, showed how much of Quran-Hadiths-Sira was talking about Non-Muslims, Infidels. It was over 60 %. and it was virtually ALL negative. "
What are you talking about?
Who is Bill Warner – and does HE have to do with anything . . .
How can you know these facts and figures are true or not?
"For this to to happen . .. you would have to read OBJECTIVELY [as much as possible] about Islam. . . .and then compare.
Something I don't think you have EVER done.
I have done it aplenty, read so many articles and quite a few books. I have had my share of debating with both Muslims and Islam-defenders among Westerners. And in those cases, hundreds of them now since 9/11, it was always the Muslims or the Islam-defenders who, with some kind of reason, or excuse, withdrew from the discussion after some time, not me, eager as I was to debate this issue and find out the truth and arguments of opponents. Who were unable to come up with enough facts and logic to defend Islam against many accusations, criticisms of counterjihadists.
But the most important answer to your challenge is:
– I am first and foremost a Western chauvinist, knowing full well, having experienced, and loving the full democratic system.
THIS is my core, not knowledge of Islam. Islam I only compare with that. Although by now I have quite extensive knowledge about key Islamic texts and doctrine.
And I see danger, competition coming from powerful omnipresent Islam to my beloved full democratic system. And also obstruction to expansion of my system, again competition to it, in Islamic countries. I see violence against my natural allies in Islamic countries. It is only natural that I want to defend and promote my beloved full democratic system and want to demote Islam.
As I suspect many many Muslims, historically and now still are very much against parts of the laws, principles, values and against countries and people I love and admire, namely Israel and America.
First and foremost I am committed to the things I mention here, and only for that reason I am against parts of Islam.
Just as you seem, to me, to be first and foremost committed to Islam, and for that against Ali Sina.
We can and should respect each other for our commitments, choices.
"Yes! That is exactly what it is. They provoke and provoke until their victims decide enough is enough and retaliate and then they claim they are victims. "
A lie – HENCE he is a hate monger. A disgusting, deceptive and untruthful lie.
– – –
"I do not know anywhere, whether today or in history that Muslims were the victims of violence and when you look deeper you don't see them as the initiator of that violence."
Something which can be said in reverse! But a lie is a lie.
Read how badly he is at it above.
Gulf War was pointed out. Yet he still maintains the lie! But is UNABLE to answer
– – –
" Take the example of Europe, or your own country of residence UK. For decades the British allowed Muslims to come and live in their country. While all other non-British soon start contributing to the economy and pay more taxes per capita than the locals, Muslims are takers. "
Given your HATE for Muslims . . . Evidence?
– – –
" While all other non-British soon start contributing to the economy and pay more taxes per capita than the locals, Muslims are takers."
Actually – we the Indian Muslims are among the most successful community in Britain!
Yes many like the Bengali fare worse. But that is NOT the case will all Muslim segments.
As it is NOT the case with all non-Muslims in Britain.
– – –
"Maybe you yourself are a welfare recipient."
Doh! I am not . . .. but see ho he lobs the claim!
– – –
"They riot, rape the white women, bomb to kill ordinary civilians, etc."
Your words . . .deary! And that is it . . . . see this works for fellow hate mongers . . . as they already believe such things. . . hence they congregate to this darkness.
– – –
"Can we say then that the British started it and they are abusing Muslims. Of course not. You pull and pull and pull so much until it breaks. "
Notice how . . . he actually avoided giving an actual example!
Rather he builds this pathetic hypothesis. Which is completely unnecessary!
– – –
If he goes down the lane of using actual examples – look what happens!
– – –
Also these new colourings are fit in with his political alliance . . .
The American Right Wing.
He has sold his soul to the devil.
“killing of Muslims is ALWAYS their fault.”
Yes! That is exactly what it is. They provoke and provoke until their victims decide enough is enough and retaliate and then they claim they are victims.
I do not know anywhere, whether today or in history that Muslims were the victims of violence and when you look deeper you don’t see them as the initiator of that violence. Without exception, always, Muslims are the initiators of violence and promoters of hate. Take the example of Europe, or your own country of residence UK. For decades the British allowed Muslims to come and live in their country. While all other non-British soon start contributing to the economy and pay more taxes per capita than the locals, Muslims are takers. Disproportionate the suck the economy and rely on the Benefits. And then all they do is speak evil of the British and harbor hatred of the very people who feed them. Maybe you yourself are a welfare recipient. They riot, rape the white women, bomb to kill ordinary civilians, etc. At one point people will become fed up and will start retaliating. Then there will be violence. Muslims will lose. Many of them may be killed and many will be deported. Can we say then that the British started it and they are abusing Muslims. Of course not. You pull and pull and pull so much until it breaks.
"You in turn can hatemonger against his and my beliefsystem, atheism/ darwinism, all you want."
Which I HAVE NEVER DONE. . .
Well, if I expand "you" to all Muslims, Islam-apologists, in the grand scheme the opposite side to the counter-jihadists, to whom Ali Sina and many posters, and me, belong, then
I CAN say that there was and is PLENTY of hatemongering against:
– Jews, Israel, Zionism, America.
And it is pointed out to you countless times that you, by following Islam, support hatemongering, written in the Quran-Hadiths-Sira. Bill Warner, whose presentation was passed on here and other anti-Islam-websites, showed how much of Quran-Hadiths-Sira was talking about Non-Muslims, Infidels. It was over 60 %. and it was virtually ALL negative.
"Are you doubting your own prophet now? "
You have lost much of your rationality to hate – it was powerful emotion. That has took over you. . . . hence why those who keep it in check – are abandoning you.
– – –
"Are you doubting your own prophet now? "
No dearest . . . simply questioning your sanity.
"Very simple. Humanitarianism was one reason, and preventing a brute dictator to control the Middle East was another. Saddam had become a threat to all his neighbors. "
And the fact that the monster was supported and in many parts created by the West . . . .
The ammo that was sold to him . . .
Those ridiculous big guns . . .
It was KNOWN he was gassing Kurds – and what did Rumsfeld say . . .
"Our Bastard"
Well the Bastard got a little too big for his boots.
– – –
"Since the end of the WWII America has been in more than 40 wars. "
We know!
Afghanistan is looking to be somewhat a failure!
– – –
"She has never occupied any of these countries and as soon as the threat was removed the locals took the control of their country. "
In these Modern times . . . it is NOT the done thing.
– – –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
A successful failure . . . disgusting loss of life.
A story of quite a few American crimes.
– – –
These days it is to conform to the "American Way"
As Bush put it . . .
You are either with us or against us.
“which hell dear? Which hell? ”
The same hell that you Muslims believe. That very imaginary hell Muhammad said you’d go if you doubt his lies.
Are you doubting your own prophet now?
Very simple. Humanitarianism was one reason, and preventing a brute dictator to control the Middle East was another. Saddam had become a threat to all his neighbors.
But America has gone to war in many other places where oil has not been a factor. Serbia and Somalia are two good examples. Since the end of the WWII America has been in more than 40 wars. She has never occupied any of these countries and as soon as the threat was removed the locals took the control of their country.
Anti islamists have been defeated for pro
"When Muslim get killed its Muslim's foolishness and when non-Muslims get killed its Muslim's atrocity."
Demsci, jonmc are qualified as critics and rest of anti-Islamists are still hate mongers including blogger wishing them good luck in future !
Higher Authority
Sina, I bet my life on it……..you know better than this, and you….yourself
don't believe what you are saying.
Why only at that time the West interfered to save Muslims from Muslims?
" First of all that gulf has a name. It is Persian Gulf. Say it until you get used to it. "
huh? Talk about irrelevance. . .
The war is KNOWN commonly as Gulf War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
– – –
"Secondly America came to the help of Muslims who were invaded by a dictator like Saddam Hussein. All you can see is America stopped a Muslim."
Actually – Saddam was secular
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein
He did care 2 figs for Islam – when he rose to power.
– – –
"All you can see is America stopped a Muslim. Saddam was a brute and a Muslim killer. That is okay, because he was a Muslim and no non-Muslim should stop a Muslim even if that Muslim is brutalizing other Muslim.
"
No dearest . . . that is WHAT you see me seeing.
– – –
"I explained that before. If you save a Muslim's life by killing his Muslim assailant, instead of owing his life to you, he thinks it is his religious duty to kill you"
Wrong – this is NOT about such simplicities. It is fallacious to reduce this to be about one man.
Dearie . . .one would have assumed to a Persian – Iran-Iraq war would stick out. [Oh – I forgot they are Muslims!]
Lets talk about building up and feeding of this monster . . . .
And what went wrong with "Our Bastard"
– – –
"This mind boggling Islamic asininity (or logic, if you prefer) is clearly expressed by Aminriadh. "
Where is Demsci . . . .
See rather than discussing . . . . the subject.
You launch into a spiel about Islam and Muslims and me being this and that . . . .
Sure . . . but it leaves the above unanswered.
Gulf War was NOT about coming to Muslim aid.
It was about control. And damage limitation.
– – –
The sign were ALL their what Saddam was about. . . . but he was fighting Iran – and USA chose to ignore that.
"No one had any doubts about [the Iraqis'] continued involvement in terrorism… The real reason was to help them succeed in the war against Iran."[64] France sold 25 billion dollars worth arms to Saddam.[54]
Wiki
– – –
The morality of USA as a nation was on hold . . . or looking the other way. And USA does this repeatedly or has done in the past.
. . .
Long discussion . . . if the above is anything to go by. . . .
You are NOT up to it.
= = =
Hence why you are NOTHING More than a hate monger.
After all dearie – EVEN the West will tell you that.
There is a reason why Pipes left you.
First of all that gulf has a name. It is Persian Gulf. Say it until you get used to it.
Secondly America came to the help of Muslims who were invaded by a dictator like Saddam Hussein. All you can see is America stopped a Muslim. Saddam was a brute and a Muslim killer. That is okay, because he was a Muslim and no non-Muslim should stop a Muslim even if that Muslim is brutalizing other Muslim.
I explained that before. If you save a Muslim’s life by killing his Muslim assailant, instead of owing his life to you, he thinks it is his religious duty to kill you, He ignores the fact that you saved his life. All he can think is that you killed a Muslim and should die for it. This mind boggling Islamic asininity (or logic, if you prefer) is clearly expressed by Aminriadh.
Joe…………I have an unlimited tolerance with liars, spiteful, malicious,
evil people……..but I have a zero tolerance with a stupid person.
I have always been warned not to deal with a stupid person, coz
his stupidity is a killer.
Wow – nice writing style.
But you could not answer this:
"Iraqi citizens did not provoke non-Muslims people. "
– – –
Nor:
"Serbia……..give me a good reason for why Serbian used to slaughter Mulslims."
– – –
So in that light – this comment is simply meaningless.
"poor rainbow, you are better off believing in nothing that the crap that is inside your head "
who are killing muslims in iraq today?
poor rainbow, you are better off believing in nothing that the crap that is inside your head
Rainbow, yet another call to believe in nothing..
why do you spend so much time and effort posting about something that does not exist?
why should anyone care about what your opinion is about nothing?
"When you die a Muslim you go to hell. Isn't that stupid to be a Muslim?"
Ha ha ha . . .which hell dear? Which hell?
– – –
Sina is an absurd hate monger.
Hence this is repeatedly exposed.
"I know of no incidence where Muslims have been attacked without provocation. Show me one example where Muslims have been unjustly become the target of hate. "
I have . . . but as usual . . .
Iraq – Gulf war 1.
– – –
"Muslims provoke and sometimes people become tired and retaliate. Sometime in these retaliations innocent Muslims get hurt too. That is why I say if you are really innocent, you should get out of Islam and if you can, make it known that you don't belong to this evil cult. "
Doh!
And who is going to defend this ABSURDITY?
Who?
On the one hand:
" Sometime in these retaliations innocent Muslims get hurt too."
And on the other:
". That is why I say if you are really innocent, "
In other words . . .
Muslims ARE NOT "Innocent" never.
Something which you have ALREADY stated.
This is WHY I call you a hate monger.
In other words . . . . killing of Muslims is ALWAYS their fault.
And it will NEVER be the fault of non Muslims.
As you will find excuses otherwise.
– – –
Where is this happening?
I know of no incidence where Muslims have been attacked without provocation. Show me one example where Muslims have been unjustly become the target of hate.
Muslims provoke and sometimes people become tired and retaliate. Sometime in these retaliations innocent Muslims get hurt too. That is why I say if you are really innocent, you should get out of Islam and if you can, make it known that you don’t belong to this evil cult.
The westerners, particularly in the last few decades have been extremely tolerant to the extent that they have made tolerance a virtue and shun intolerance. Maybe this has to do with the horrors of the last world war. But now their patience is running out and more and more people are wanting to have nothing to do with Muslims and Islam. There will be a confrontation and Muslims will be the sore losers. So if you are a Muslim and don’t agree with violence of your fellow co-religionists I suggest you better get out of Islam soon and integrate in your host country. If you live in Britain be a Britain. If you live in Germany, be a German and if you live in America be an American. You can’t have split loyalty.
The confrontation is coming and Muslims will lose. I don’t want to be on the side of the loser. Why should you? There is nothing to gain in this world and nothing to gain in the next. When you die a Muslim you go to hell. Isn’t that stupid to be a Muslim?
Lies, as usual,…….many Muslim have been and are still killed unjuslty.
Sina, you will be fair and truthful one day, when pigs fly !
"But when non-Muslims get killed by Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to terrorism."
Adjusted:
"But when non-Muslims get killed by Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to state terrorism."
Wrong. Obviously.
"Well, I would amend that by replacing the term ALWAYS with something else. With VERY OFTEN, or Most of the times. "
And it WOULD still be wrong.
However . . . at least EVEN you can see – Sina lies and deception. Well done!
– – –
"And I said that calling someone a hatemonger is insufficient because hating something bad is logical and good. Like hating Nazism was logical and good. "
In Sina's case – HE IS A HATE MONGER.
– – –
"You in turn can hatemonger against his and my beliefsystem, atheism/ darwinism, all you want."
Which I HAVE NEVER DONE. . . .
But see how you attempt to create false impression.
– – –
"If you stay within the same borders that Ali Sina stays within, that is. "
What borders?
Oh:
All atheists are dirty.
You can NOT be rational as you are an atheist.
Atheists should be BOMBED into submission.
I am calling for an apartheid between Muslims and Atheists.
Sure . . . I will stay within the border.
– – –
"And he gives facts and reasoning for it. And much of it is said by others too and only passed on by him. And then he allows his fiercest critics all the latitude they want. So he is OK for me. "
Which are regularly exposed as bogus, lies illogical. And HE CANNOT ANSWER!
I can show you comment after comment of lies.
His book – full of it.
His articles full of lies.
So rather than thinking for your self. Which you want MUSLIMS to do!
You sign up to this hate monger!
I am NOT one jot surprised.
– – –
Less not forget how your morality wavers and goes through the hoops.
Your support for Julia . . .
See what happened to your morality then.
Your excuses over hate mongering . . . when you COULD no longer pretend that SIna wasn't a hate monger.
– – –
= = = =
"And he gives facts and reasoning for it"
Yeah read his book!
How can you know these facts and figures are true or not?
For this to to happen . .. you would have to read OBJECTIVELY [as much as possible]
about Islam. . . .and then compare.
Something I don't think you have EVER done.
– – –
THis is why YOU support OTHER people . . . . .when they argue ABOUT ISLAM.
But yourself – you are NOT able to.
– – –
As your attempt on Jizyah showed.
Then ONCE more your morality failed.
Excuses for NOT producing evidence.
Whereas it is THE WESTERN STANDARD!
That it is THE JOB of claimant to bring evidence.
""But when Muslims get killed by non-Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to Islamic terrorism." An open lie."
Frankly I agree. It's an over-statement.
Just out of pure curiousity, Aminriadh, how would you feel about the inverse of that statement: "But when non-Muslims get killed by Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to terrorism."?
Mysterious moon found me crying But the sun dried my tears Showed he cares !
"But when Muslims get killed by non-Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to Islamic terrorism."
Well, I would amend that by replacing the term ALWAYS with something else. With VERY OFTEN, or Most of the times.
And I said that calling someone a hatemonger is insufficient because hating something bad is logical and good. Like hating Nazism was logical and good.
So Ali Sina believes Islam to be bad, and don't forget also dangerous and obstructing the good things, with which he wants to replace Islam!! You in turn can hatemonger against his and my beliefsystem, atheism/ darwinism, all you want. If you stay within the same borders that Ali Sina stays within, that is.
And he gives facts and reasoning for it. And much of it is said by others too and only passed on by him. And then he allows his fiercest critics all the latitude they want. So he is OK for me.
My Sincere regards to the brave human beings like Ali Sina, Gert Wilders etc,
I am sincerely worried about whats gonna happen to the world during our lifetime , due to the evil radiations emanating from the arabian peninsula.
"But when Muslims get killed by non-Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to Islamic terrorism."
An open lie.
As Gulf War 1 – had NOTHING to do with the West.
– – –
Abuse of Iraq for years was simply CRUEL
And unjustified.
– – –
I have given you a scenario. . . .
– – –
Where is Demsci now . . .
Look at this vile hate monger.
Look at this DISGUSTING hate.
– – –
When he is defeated regarded Islam . .. . his hate and vileness goes up.
– – –
You have to be opposed.
Not just for the sake of Muslims
But for the sake Humanity.
– – –
You are SICK in the head.
I do not consider it an insult being an animal. If you have enough knowledge,
you would know that the human is some sort of an animal……this depends
on the individual, he could be as wise as an owl, or as stupid as a donkey,
or as stubborn as a mule…….etc..etc….
"I find it so strange agreeing with you on something".
If you are experienced enough, you should know better than that. Even the most deadly
enemies must have something in common.
When Muslims get killed by fellow Muslims it is Islamic terrorism Most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims. This has been so since the very early days of Islam. When non-Muslims get killed by Muslims it is also Islamic terrorism. But when Muslims get killed by non-Muslims it is always retaliation and reaction to Islamic terrorism. I heard of no case in the history, anywhere in the world that Muslims had become the target of violence without Muslims ever being violent to them first. Never. I would like to hear such case if ever existed. Take the example of Kosovo. It looked like a clear case of non-Muslims persecuting Muslims. But if you go back to history you will see this violence was the outcome of centuries of Islamic abuse. The pressure accumulated and finally erupted.
Even animals fight being cat and mouse they agree on being animals. There is no surprise. I mentioned earlier.
When Muslim get killed its Muslim's foolishness and when non-Muslims get killed its Muslim's atrocity.
@Rainbow
"Hi, I am back……….missed me?"
Not really. I knew you warned us that you'd be back but I hoped it would not be so soon.
"Good to know that you realized that Allah and God are the same entity."
I did not say they are the same entity. In this article I was talking exclusively about the god of Islam known as Allah.
"As you said that Hussien was not qualified to be a leader, and he was foolish also. God did not care
about Hussien, true……but also God does not care about his all creatures.
Hey, believers, you have two choices only: either God does not exist, or he does not care about you. "
I find it so strange agreeing with you on something.
Hi, I am back……….missed me?
" Allah did not care or could not save Hussein. He laid his trust and fate in God and God ignored him."
Good to know that you realized that Allah and God are the same entity.
As you said that Hussien was not qualified to be a leader, and he was foolish also. God did not care
about Hussien, true……but also God does not care about his all creatures.
Hey, believers, you have two choices only: either God does not exist, or he does not care about you.