Was Muhammad Created Before Adam?
Dear Mr Ali
Muslim believe that there is hadiths saying Muhammad was created 14000 years before Adam. Please click on this link.
Your comment please….
Wim
The problem with Hadith is that Muslims can accept or deny its authenticity depending on the direction of the wind. When a certain hadith suits them it is considered to be authentic and when it does not, they say it is not authentic. The same hadith can be authentic and unauthentic depending on situations.
This is the kind of hadith that may be authentic. It was characteristic of Muhammad to make grandiose claims about himself. However, the claim is a patent lie. Muhammad said he did not know he was a prophet until Gabriel kicked him on the side, squeezed him and he fell to the ground. Then he was told to read in the name of his god. Even then he thought he had become demon possessed. It was his wife who convinced him that he had seen an angel and had become a prophet. Despite that when the hallucination did not repeat itself, on several occasions he attempted to commit suicide. He thought Allah had abandoned him. This proves he did not have a clue he was a prophet until the hallucination occurred and hence the claim that he was created before Adam is bogus.
Furthermore, this hadith contradicts the Quran 18:110 “Say [O Prophet]: “I am but a mortal man like all of you.”
Of course no such a person as Adam ever existed. Humans have evolved and there is no single person from whom we all descend. Anyone who knows a little about evolution will scoff at the story of Adam and Eve. It is a fairy tale and so is Islam.
The theory of Evolution is merely a theory afterall and not the truth.
People seem to think that the story of Adam and Eve is false because science has found the truth. Well it is only the truth when you accept it as truth.
On the story of evolution there are classes of scientists. Evolution is conclusive where as some scientists believe it is not true.
Sakat, very fascinating. The only way to deal with the muhammadan menace is a relentless onslaught.
@ I-HATE-ISLAM
Very few know that while the Muslims invaded Persia in 634, they invaded Sindh in India on the orders of the gangster Umar (the Muslim Khalifa) in 638, just a gap of four years. But while Persia succumbed in seventeen years by 651, Muslims took seven hundred years to overrun India (today Sindh is a part of a Muslim country called Pakistan that was carved out of Hindu India in 1947). And even after that they could not rule India in peace.
Although the Arab Muslims on the orders of the gangster Caliph Umar, attacked India in 638, they were repeatedly defeated by the Rajas of Makara (Makran) and Sindh. The Arab chroniclers then wrote derisive accounts of the reasons for their defeats at the hands of the Hindus by saying that the Hindus practice Voodoo and Black Magic and so bring Jinns and Shaitan to help them in war. Hence the Arabs cannot defeat them, the way the Arabs could easily defeat the Persians and the Byzantines.
But the Hindus were tenacious fighters. We need only to remember how the Greeks under Alexander overcame the Persian Achemanian empire in a few years, after which they attacked India, but the Hindus contested the Greeks so fiercely and harassed the Greek army so much that inspite of the Greeks securing a costly victory in the battle along the river Hydaspes (Vitasta, today’s Jhelum), the Greek troops mutinied and refused to advance further into India.
The Hindu resistance was not just fierce, but it kept increasing in ferocity till with the Marathas, the Hindus overtook the Muslims in their ferocity. It was this lesson which the Hindus learnt from the Muslims and applied against the Muslims, that led to the Hindu (Maratha) victories against the beast-like Muslims. It was the Marathas who presaged President Bush when he said “We will hunt down our enemies” The Marathas literally hunted down the Muslims. The only other case of a Muslim defeat in face of such tactics was in Ethiopia and Southern Sudan (Nubia) where the African Christians of Nubia used guerilla tactics against the Muslims to hunt them down and finally to defeat them.
How dare you insult dogs and mice by comparing them to demon filth Allah ? Don't you know that dogs are immensely superior to Allah ?
Sakat, I salute the gallantry of those Hindu and Sikh warriors who did not capitulate to the warmongering barbarians. If others had emulated them, as well as the heroism of Charles Martel and King John of Poland in Europe, this vermin would have been eradicated. What held then still holds true today. Muhammadanism deserves no civility. It must be eradicated if the world is to know peace and preserve civilization.
Ahmadinejad claims that the expected Mahdi is hiding in a hole somewhere in Iran and his/its emergence will signal the apocalypse. This shows what demented thinkers muhammadans are. How can something which hides in a hole without adequate oxygen and contact with the outside world have the intelligence to function in a civilized society? But if, in the unlikely event that he/it is hiding as said, he/it should hurry and come out without further delay to start the war which will see the end of the evil called muhammadanism. It will vanish in the face of a combined assault by the forces of those who stand for good.
your quran is full of scientific nonsense.
Slave mentality, the Hindus do not worship idols any more than the muhammadans do. If it is safe to assume that allah was anything other than Muhammad, then the muhammadans are worshiping an idol that was the lord of the kabbah. Its existence pre-dates the advent of muhammadanism. Muhammad's grandfather,Mutalib, was this idol's priest. He named Muhammad's father Abdallah which, as you already know, means slave of allah. There can be no slave without a master.
On the other hand, there is very compelling evidence that Muhammad was the personification of allah which he created in his own image. He spoke and acted for allah. Whatever he wished was also allah's wish. As a matter of fact, allah prayed to Muhammad . Allah fawned to Muhammad and was displeased when Muhammad was reluctant to perform an act which ran counter to reason. Muhammad, not allah, determined who will be where in his paradise. From that position he decreed that Abu Bakr, the gullible, would be the first among his followers to enter paradise while his favorite daughter, Fatima, would occupy the next lofty seat after the Virgin Mary.Such distribution of positions is the sole preserve of Almighty God but not a he-devil like Muhammad.
If the Hindus are worshiping idols, they are better than the Muhammadans whose god died about 1400 years ago and the remains have long since been dealt with by the maggots of the Arabian desert.
Your allah did not create anything. He did not even have the power to prevent himself from being poisoned. Nor did he stop the poison from having effect on him. SHAME ON ALL MUHAMMADANS FOR WORSHIPING A DEAD CREATURE.
Muslims are dirtiest scum of all time. mohammad inserted his rotten penis inside the vagina of a nine year old girl even then muslim scum claim that he is a prophet. Hindus will worship whatever they want but we will never kiss the black stone and call the pimp of eternal prostitutes as god.
allah is only eternal pimp of perpetual virgins.
muslims can worship this scum . we will never worship the pimp scum.
SHAME ON PIMP WORSHIPPING , PEDOPHILE FOLLOWING MUSLUMS
@ Shahriar /Slave of Prophet
Unlike the complete Islamization of Persia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Turkey, North Africa, the Islamization of India was never complete. After more than one millennium of Muslim Tyranny from 715 up to 1761, more than 70 percent of the population of India remained Hindu. This was NOT due to any Muslim charity or benevolence, since the murderous and savage beast like Muslims have none of these characteristics.In the battle for Kubha (Kabul) in 980 C.E., the Muslims defeated the Hindus by using deceit. To ensure the secrecy of their advance, the Muslims had muffled the sounds of their horses by covering the hooves of their horses with felt and cloth. Dressed in black clothes the Muslims almost reached the Hindu camps at 2 A.M. at night as they knew that the Hindus did not fight from Sunset up to Sunrise. After the Hindus retired for the night, the Muslim were busy preparing for a night assault. While the Hindu army was in deep slumber, except for a few scouts, the Muslim army attacked by taking cover of the dark and stormy night. The storm entirely camouflaged the advance of the Muslims as they stealthily crept towards the Hindu camp, after crossing the few hillocks that separated the two camps.
The entire Hindu army was caught unawares, but they still put up a stiff fight against their treacherous and beastly adversaries. The battle continued till past dawn, but the Hindu army had been overpowered, tricked as it had been to give the advantage of surprise to the Muslims. By late morning the remnants of the Hindu army retreated back to their capital Kubha (Kabul), with the Muslims in hot pursuit. The Muslims soon occupied Kabul and continued to push the Hindus eastwards.Unlike the Zoroastrian Persians, the Hindus never surrendered to the Muslim tyrants. They waged a relentless and violent struggle against the Muslims.When fortune favored them, the Hindus returned in almost equal measure, the barbarism of the Muslims and struck fear in Muslim hearts for Hindu warriors like Krishna Deva Raya, Rani Durgavati, Shivaji, and Sikhs (who are a Hindu sect) like Guru Gobind Singh, Banda Singh Bahadur and many others. The reason why the Hindus survived thirteen centuries of savage Muslim tyranny was that they learnt that the art of survival in face of a Muslim attack was giving back almost as much as they got from the Muslims.
We use the qualifier “almost” as the Hindus slaughtered the Muslims on the battlefield, but did not go to the extent of slaughtering Muslim civilians and giving them the choice of Hinduism or death, Hindus did not molest Muslim women en masse, neither did they destroy, en masse, all Mosques, nor did they build Hindus temples over them (the Babri Masjid-Ramjanabhomi struggle being a one off and very belated case). Never did the Hindus, after a victory, impose a penal tax like the jaziya on all Muslims and reduce the Muslims to such a state of servitude, that for Muslims dying would be more preferable than living under a tyrannous Hindu rule. There is no record of the defeated Muslims saving their skins by either jumping in to the common fire (as the Hindus did in Jauhar) to avoid converting to Islam
It was this valiant Hindu resistance that put paid all the savagery of the Muslims to convert all the Hindus to Islam at the pain of death. But otherwise the sordid tale of Muslim savagery was no less brutal from that in other parts of the world overrun by the Islamic Jihadis.
@Shahriar
Assalaamwalekum brother,
These Hindu / pagans are worst of creature. In 7th century also these pagans/Hindu opposed the prophet but prophet awarded them severe punishment and all their Idols were thrown out of the Masjid-ul-Haram. But they did not stop worshiping Idols even now. These Hindu are fickle minded people sometime they worship cow, sometime rivers, sometime Idols, sometime hills etc. These Hindu can worship dogs, mouse etc but not the Allah who has created all this universe. Shame on these Hindus.
I hope the Hindus should not abuse our beloved Prophet (PBUH). They should not make any comment. If you don't believe in god I don't need to talk with you. If you believe in god then try to know your own religion. Our Qur'an has no scientific error which was written about 13,5 hundred years ago.
Yeah. But I tend to think that Islam and Allah were created by Muhammad and the Arabs to dominate the world (especially to control (and enjoy) women and non-Muslims). It is still hard to accept that Muhammad didn't exist. Whose body is lying there in Muhammad's grave? I wish I had read Robert Spencer's Book about this. 🙁
No, he is not an idiot but a smart person who can think out of the idiot box and not to be chained by Satan.
@falisina, it is better to be an idiot for some time than to be a suffering slave for life.
Actually Muhammad and Allah were created by the Arabs with two entities into one and one entity into two in order to dominate mankind in the form of wars in the eighth century until the present time.
I got irritated when heard or read that Muhammad was the best creature and the only reason behind the creation of this universe.
Perhaps your evil fake prophet Mohammed is the most influential person on this earth. Hitler, Stalin, Mao ,Po Pot etc. were also very influential. But just as with your brain sick prophet their influence was VILE. He caused MANY, many deadly victims, rape victims, slavery, wounded etc. AND STILL DOES !
You should ask yourself who had a GOOD infuence !! MOHAMMED CERTAINLY NOT!! ON THE CONTRARY. ! Don't shut your eyes fr the truth ! READ AND STUDY HISTORY . Jesus Christ was a MUCH better man, with a GOOD influence! http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-o…
(read the references yourself !)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/65-khan/749-ne…
To Julia,
I don't think you know Islam much and know Muhammad much.
He is the most influential person in this earth, Michael H Hart.
Dear Jens,
Then maybe you should learn about this God from Muslim.
Learn how God give us so much opportunity to believe in Him, yet still so many people ignore The Creator.
To Hasan Syazali.
Question to you, silly KID:
Are you the Mohammedan in this very FUNNY video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEDcNWFsles
I guess you are …..Bwahahahahahahahaaaa !! BRRRRRRRR…..BOOOOOOOOOOO ! 🙂
Dear Hasan Syazali.
You are a completely brainwashed, backward and uneducated Mohammedan.
The bible already existed hundreds of years befire your CRAZY fake prophet lived. And there are many such bibles all over the world. None of them mention your SICK fake prophet.
Show us ONE bibe of 100,200, 300 years before Mohammed lived! JUST ONE !
STUPID MUSLIM, you believe everything your imams, or clowns like Zakir Naik tell you.
SHAME ON YOU for being so gulible! SHAME !
STOP WHINING AND WAILING . BECAUSE IT IS YOU WHO insult us ,the 5 billion non-muslims. You believe that we are the "most vile creatures" and "fuel for hellfire"(quran 3:10) on this world, according to your EVIL QURAN. Ain't THAT "PEACEFUL" EVIL KID !!!
proof: Quran 8.55 " Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.
Dear Jens,
do not insult 1.5 billion of Muslim.
for your information, bible today is not from Jesus, it is created by Christian's scholar. So they took out already about the Muhammad, the last messenger.
2 billion christian around the world being fooled by christian scholar. Jesus (Isa) also is Muslim, and believe in one God, Allah. There are no proof of Jesus is a God's Son whatsoever.
Could you also send to me. I strongly believe in Islam, and I can guarantee you that I, with all other Islamic scholar will reject this book with fact.
Who are you to tell that Muhammad pretend to do this and that? Do you ever see him?
I believe that whoever see him therefore believe in him, that is why most Mecca people convert to Islam, leave Jahiliyyah. Islam bring prosperity, bring joy to people, bring justice and serenity to people.
Before Islam, arabs kill daughters, after Islam, there are no killing daughter anymore.
Before Islam, arabs cheat in business, but Muhammad told them to stop cheating, start to be nice to their neighbor, and so on.
There are so much goodness in Muhammad, and the infamy about Muhammad is just a small stories made up by people who are envy of Islam. Let's see the Quran itself. There are no doubt it is reveal by God.
Could you bring the proof that the edited picture is done by Muslim? And if it is, could you know what their exact intention to do that?
It could be just for art design. How could you be so sure? Then it is just other's opinion about Muslim again without even know exactly who did that? yes?
All your stories about Muhammad is only your point of view, and what is your right to call Muhammad have disorder sickness? How come someone that have disorder sickness can lead a fast growing religion in the world? How come most people that is literate can believe in Muhammad (who is illiterate) if he has disorder sickness?
Muhammad did not know he is the chosen one by Allah until Gabriel see him. Before that, Muhammad is a Abraham's religion's follower. He never cheat, he never lies, how come someone that is never lies for 40 years become big liar? So that, I would never believe someone that is for sure had tell lies in their young age like you sir 🙂
Dear Mr.Ali Sinatra
Can you pls tell me according to the semitic belief howmany years before of Mohammed Adam was ousted from paradise ?
Maharoof.K
Adil writes: "IT IS MENTIONED IN THE EARLIER BOOKS OF MANY RELIGIONS INCLUDING BIBLE AND HINDU BOOKS THAT PROPHET MUHAMMED (PBUH) WILL ARRIVE. "
Dear Adil do not insult 2 billions of Christians.
Mohammad bin Abdulla was not mentioned in The Bilbe
Mohammad bin Abdulla was the tool of Satan (Saitan)
Look.
Jesus went to the wilderness. Jesus meet Satan and was brought to the top of a mountain.
Jesus said no to worldly power.
Mohamed went to the wilderness, meet Saitan in a cave, subterrenian, said Yes, Thank Yoy to worldly power and 10 wifes and 200 female slave.
Just the two words: On a Mountain and subterranian (in a cave) explains the whole symbolisme in this.
Adil said: (someting like) Religion is an instruction manual for life
Yes, and if you use a manual for cars when you operate your computer, you will surely damage it.
You say: "HE is the your creator" so you use the wrong manual.
The Great Creator Goddess is female, and she created the Universe 5 billion years ago.
But don't worry, she loves you even when you transgress and act like babies your whole life.
It was shocking for me to know that God hate with me too much just for not believing in some person named Mohammed. God will punish me till infinity just for not believing in the person(Mohammed) with whom I never met. This God (Allah) seems like a cruel king in the kingdom who punish the people for not praising him.
Have we seen this before:
Quoted out of context!
You have small brain.
Yes, we have to save the world from Arab imperialism through Islamic religion. Millions of human beings were perished in the name of this so-called religion from god. Many more millions were killed when Christianity was spread out from the Roman Empire. Civilized human beings must stop this craziness before mankind becomes extinct.
Before post these coments you understood islam more think about islam and than coment because it is a religeon of 1.5 billion people and like these coments you are hurted them
They are not good points. They are quoted out of context! And interpreted with a small brain that rojas has!
Sanada, whatever he says are assumptions based on the lack of intelligence and faith in the common good. It is motivated by hatred. All these people do not want to go on public debates and argue fairly and logically. They just set up wordpresses and spout nonsense everyday. They offer $50,000 that they never meant to give away. And only weak minded Muslims fell to their weak arguments and red herrings. May Allah help all of them.
John K, just shut it. You don't make sense to me.
Why are you basing your judgement on Muslims based on 1 person?! And comparing him to the prophet? this is called generalizing and stereotyping, which I bet, any educated person is aware of. Generalizing and stereotyping is a mark of an uneducated hateful person. That's what rojas is.
John K, are you really serious? Are you a fabricator of stories? Surely, your fabrications sounds too unbelievable for any idiot to follow. But too bad its just what you think. I think you have TLE too.
Another illogical idiot who spouts nonsense without evidence.
any proof to your ridiculous statements? what 'standards' are you talking about? I mean what nonsense are you talking about? do you exactly know what you are talking about?
Another extremist idiot.
Have you read enough, sorrowsnake, to make such statements?
Another way of saying "I am censoring whoever is against us. But to show to everyone that I am fair, I will tell them that only explicit language will be removed, but in truth, i am using censorship as an excuse and a way to remove whoever is against us." Sheer hypocrisy.
how can anyone trust so much a person without a face and balls to go on public debates? Promises $50,000 that he never meant to give because of his stubborn lack of morals and intelligence. What an immoral douchbag liar who claims he has morals. Probably a pedo himself. What a loser.
Hey there! I just wanted to ask if you ever have any problems with hackers? My last blog (wordpress) was hacked and I ended up losing many months of hard work due to no data backup. Do you have any solutions to prevent hackers?
Gabriel is a devil not angel. He teach Muhammad become terrorist. Prove that Gabriel is devil is he don't like dog.
ISLAM=Stupid, Lazy, Rubbish, Problem, Lie, Barbarian, Dirty, Ugly, Noisy, Crazy, Oppress, Violent, Behead, Horror, War, Boom, Politic, Womanizing, Pedophilia, Polygamy, Fanatic, Evil, Terrorist
The only reason you deny the hadiths is because you're embaressed and ashamed of what they tell us about Muhammad. The hadiths that are quoted on this site are authentic. They have been classified as Sahih (authentic) by the scholars of hadith over a thousands years ago. It’s not up to you and I to decide now which one of them are authentic and which ones are not. We have no way to verify the chain of narration Isnad. Unless a hadith is absurd and defies logic, like miracles attributed to Muhammad, we have no reason to believe it is not authentic.The second claim you make is a load of nonsense. Muhammad is not mentioned in any other holy book.
Mr. John please read this http://www.quranandscience.com/know-your-god/255-…
You might learn something.
No matter how learned and professional you are, your knowledge is not even a drop in the sea compared to the knowledge of God.
THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU ARE PROVEN WRONG ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT WHEN THERE IS HELL FIRE IN FRONT OF YOU!
What makes you say that? What level of knowledge do you have about Islam or even about your own religion?
There are so many things in Quran (Book of Muhammed pbuh) which reveal science and those facts are being verified by the scientific research today.
If an illiterate person will tell you about what a computer is; you would be laughing at him.
So consider yourself the illiterate one…
Religion is a guideline for your life.
If you purchase a machine and do not read/follow its instruction manual thre is a 90% chance that you would damage it. Human knowledge is very limited but knowledge of God is unlimited. You dont know why you came in this world and why or when you would die. But God surely knows because He is your creator. If you create some thing e.g. a computer software, but it doesnt follow what you command it to, then how would you feel? What would you do to that software?
THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU ARE PROVEN WRONG ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT WHERE THE HELL FIRE WOULD BE IN FRONT OF YOU!
What makes you say that? What level of knowledge do you have about Islam or even about your own religion?
If an illiterate person will tell you about what a computer is; you would be laughing at him.
So consider yourself the illiterate one…
Do you think anyone logically would believe what you just wrote above? What do you think about the thousands of Americans converting to Islam daily?
And what makes you say that? What level of knowledge do you have about Islam or even about your own religion?
If an illiterate person will tell you about what a computer is; you would be laughing at him.
So consider yourself the illiterate one…
What makes you say that? What level of knowledge do you have about Islam or even about your own religion?
If an illiterate person will tell you about what a computer is; you would be laughing at him.
So consider yourself the illiterate one…
THIS IS FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO COMMENTED BEFORE:
1- ALL HADITH MENTIONED BY MUSLIMS (SOMETIMES ILLITERATE) ARE NOT CORRECT SINCE REFERENCES FOR MANY HADITH COULD NOT BE IDENTIFIED.
2- IT IS MENTIONED IN THE EARLIER BOOKS OF MANY RELIGIONS INCLUDING BIBLE AND HINDU BOOKS THAT PROPHET MUHAMMED (PBUH) WILL ARRIVE.
FOR MORE CORRECT INFOMATION, YOU CAN WATCH VIDEOS OF DR. ZAKIR NAIK ON YOUTUBE.
PLEASE RESPECT OTHERS AND THEIR BELIEVES, THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU ARE PROVEN WRONG ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT!
I wish you people had an idea about what you're discussing here. If any one of you had a chance to even listen to what the Holy Quran states you wouldn't be saying all this. It is because of people like you that most of the conflicts exist between people with different faiths.
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
What does race have to do with religion? Were the Vedas not revealed?
If you are interested in the Judeo-Christian paradigm, Noah's three sons were fathers of the three races:
Shem – Semites
Japeth – Indo-European/Asian
Ham – Negro (preserved through his wife, Egyptus)
Archeologists have found the kanji for Noah's ark on a gate in China.
I think this world is the best place to live in if there is no religion (whatever names) in the name of God (whatever names). It is because throughout history, millions of people were murdered and persecuted in the name of religion up to the present time.
Before the advent of the so-called revealed religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) what religion of the first people on earth? If we believe that the first man on earth was Adam, how did the Caucasian, Negroid and Mongoid races came into being?
Ali Sina is an ex-Muslim. You will be one too if you read his book. He will send you a free copy in email if you don't want to buy it. It is guaranteed you cannot remain a Muslim if you read it. Are you afraid to try?
hiii ali sina, im a sunni, r u a sunni, do u like ,habib ali jifri ,pls visit http://www.alhabibali.com ok
Maybe muslims here can answer this if they are not too busy running away, insulting, suspecting or denying. 😉
We're banning people who are using vulgarity against members. We are also blacklisting whole IP range. If we find any person using abusive language against anyone, he will be banned permanently from commenting. Also please help us moderate comments by reporting any vulgarity.
People who have a long history of abused have been black listed and every time they comment, it is going straight to the additional moderation filter where I check it once a week.
We want everyone of you to start a conversation and we will not ban anyone even if he is against us, just make sure you follow our terms of commenting.
As you can see we get lots of comments and probably you won't see this much commented articles anywhere, it is very hard for us to moderate every comment, so we don't moderate, please help us by reporting abusive comments so that we can filter the bad guys.
Yes, these are all very good points. I didn't want to complicate my last comment by going that deep, but that certainly was on my mind.
Robert Spencer's research has led him to some evidence that Muhammad may not have even existed, but rather was an invention by early leaders to justify jihad. This will be the subject of his next book.
"Islam-Allah the Best of Deceivers "
"But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)!" S. 3:54; cf. 8:30
"Are they then secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi) save folk that perish." S. 7:99
"So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme, while they perceived not." S. 27:50
[youtube tNsKxYJY4Fo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNsKxYJY4Fo youtube]
"For Allah is the best of deceivers."
But why should an all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipresent God even NEED to be deceptive? What for?
However: a malicious HUMAN, who pretends to be a "prophet" sure does need guile in order to make people believe in him. Such a man, after having shammed to have had an encounter with an angel, would even pretend to have "depressions", pretend to have "self-doubts" and pretend to have "considerations of suicide" as a part of his guileful plan to appear more authentic to the people he wishes to gain power over.
In fact those surahs talking about Allah as the "best of deceivers" have to be decrypted: In actuality it is "prophet" MUHAMMAD talking about HIMSELF. (Maybe it was a "Freudian slip" or something like that.)
After all: "Prophet" MUHAMMAD sure is "the best of deceivers", for HE, Muhammad, managed to make so many people believe in his alleged "prophecy".
Sorry. Name-calling is not going to change the facts. Calling the information wrong can't change the truth either. You Muslims expect to say the sun rises in the west and expect everyone to believe you. All the information comes from your books, the authoritative ones accepted by your people. As Patton said to Rommel, "I read your book!"
Welcome to the club Salman. We all wanted to believe, as Dr. Sina puts it, that the world was a rainbow of religions with each one a different color contributing to its beauty, but we have learned through study of Islam that it is not a color at all, but the black of the darkest night.
Unfortunately Islam is a very legalistic religion that is precisely defined by its texts. So the answer to your question is that the information comes from what Islam's foundational texts tell us – the trilogy of the Quran, Ahadith, and Sira. Sharia law comes from centuries of legalistic analysis of the these documents. When we talk about variations among sects, they really only quibble (to the point of killing) over minor differences. Muslims are united on some 80% of Islamic doctrine, and derive most of their unity from hostility towards non-Muslims.
Wikipedia is pretty biased towards Islam. Nothing negative is allowed to be put into any article on an Islamic subject. Everything must fit into a tiny article on Criticism of Islam.
"Anyone who wants to really crack the mystery of Muhammad has to read that book."
That's true. I've read a lot of material on Muhammad that primarily discovers the criminality, immorality, and fraud. Dr. Sina is the first to unlock the psychology of Muhammad as far as I have found.
It's also a sign of the weakness of Islam that it can't be spread without this kind of farce.
These are good points, Rojas. Ali Sina's book explores Muhammad's various mental disorders and concludes that the hallucinations were Temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE). He also expressed doubt about his sanity, but was reassured by Khadija that he was a prophet. She stood to lose prestige and clients if it became known that Muhammad was mad.
Certainly Muhammad took advantage of his "position" to impose his own sociopathic will on people. It is said the Meccan Quran is peaceful and the Medina Quran is violent, but actually, Muhammad's bad attitude towards others is manifest in the earliest Suras. What changed was that the early Suras only threatened unbelievers with Allah's punishment and hell, but the later Suras threatened them with death. Then he spent more time killing and less time threatening.
“Did Muhammad HIMSELF ever believe to see or hear an angel or anything?”
Yes he was convinced that he had seen an angel and had become a prophet. You can’t fool so many people if you are in doubt yourself.
“In that case it really would not be fair to call Muhammad an "impostor".”
That is a bit complicated. Because he also lied when it suited him without having received any hallucinatory experiences that he could interpret as revelation.
“Or did Mohammed consciously make up and stage his alleged "prophecy" putting up a big fuss right from the beginning? “
Not right from the beginning. In the beginning he was sincere. He had temporal lobe epilepsy and he believed he had become a prophet. In fact when the hallucinatory experiences stopped he and his wife were so disappointed that she told him, I fear your god has abandoned you and he attempted suicide.
However, when people started believing in him he received plenty of narcissistic supply from them and started making up revelations fully convinced that he is entitled to do so. Apart from TLE, Muhammad also suffered from narcissistic personality disorder. So when one was not a factor, the other became a motivator.
“Then he would have been nothing more than unscrupolous cult leader, like Jim Jones, Sun Myung Moon, David Brandt Berg and others. “
He was more than that. These charlatans suffered from NPD. Muhammad was at once, Bab and Jim Jones. Like Bab, he had hallucinatory experiences and was innocently deluded. And like Jim Jones, he was a conniving, manipulative narcissist. It is this combination that makes him the phenomenon that he became.
My book will be released in November or December. Anyone who wants to really crack the mystery of Muhammad has to read that book.
Good point Rojas. Indeed the morality of Muslims stems from the morality of their prophet. It was he who thought lying for the sake of spreading his message is a meritorious act.
Quote Ali Sina: "The above miracle is created by a devout Muslim with the help of Photoshop. It is actually the Island of Molukini, which is the tip of a volcano in Hawaii. Here is the actual picture from Google Map.":
http://alisina.org/photoshop-miracle/
If a "devout muslim" is morally capable of faking an "islamic miracle" by using photoshop, why should Muhammad not have lied by feigning to have heard an angel talk to him?
Honestly speaking I am not sure whether in this particular case there is really place for "both". It seems to me that there is only place for "either-or". Either Muhammad, when sitting in his cave, was REALLY convinced to hear a voice of an angel, OR he was consciously contriving his "prophetical career" by the FABRICATION of hearing that voice, while really knowing that he NEVER heard anything at all. After all in Islam taqiyya, telling lies and feigning, is explicitly allowed, so why should Islam not have started with Muhammad himself practicing that taqiyya when he claimed to have had that encounter with that voice talking to him? And than putting up a big fuss with alleged(!) considerations of suicide and alleged hysterical fits in order to appear more credible to those whom he wanted to convert, (i.e. mentally submit to his will like any cult leader)?
Yeah, a little of both. In many occasions he made an escape from critical questions. This shouldn't be done if he's fully deluded. He could easily say something using his "fantasy".
Salman,
How do you know God is one? The oneness of God is also a belief taught by this or that person who either claimed to be a prophet or just a philosopher.
Muhammad was both a deluded person who thought he saw an angel and heard his voice as revelation from Allah and a criminal fraud who produced revelations in Allah's name.
Hey, this is something I really would like to get clear once and for all: Did Muhammad HIMSELF ever believe to see or hear an angel or anything?
In that case it really would not be fair to call Muhammad an "impostor", since he would have sincerely believed in his "mission".
Or did Mohammed consciously make up and stage his alleged "prophecy" putting up a big fuss right from the beginning?
Then he would have been nothing more than unscrupolous cult leader, like Jim Jones, Sun Myung Moon, David Brandt Berg and others.
So what was "Prophet" Mohammed? A madman who was honestly convinced to hear an angel talk and "receive revelations"? That would mean that 1,5 billion muslims are "infected" with Muhammad's psychosis called Islam.
Or was Mohammed just a criminal fraud who LIED to have "heard an angel talk" and dramatically acted up with his alleged(!) self-doubts, his alleged(!) consideration of suicide, his alleged(!) hysterical fits when allegdly got his so-called "revelations"?
In that case 1,5 billion muslims would have fallen for a conman.
Hater are going to hate sadly think of anything to justify what they are saying even if there own religion does it (there religion does it its right if Islam does it is wrong)
Blatant wrong information about the sunni /shia
Regards Jakob
What in the world is all this? I can't believe Islam is falling out of shape on the internet like this? We are taught from the beginning, there is only ONE God. No one can be associated with him as a god. Where are you getting your info?…. Also…I hate this Shiite and Sunni classification thing…Better question.. Where are ALL of you getting your information?! Wikipedia?…
Obviously you are pretending to be educated and have no knowledge of any of the subjects you are touching on. Maybe it would help if you learned to restrict your reading to peer-reviewed scientific journals, or if that is too difficult for you, at least Scientific American would point you in the right direction.
That's correct. Ann Coulter has written complete book on the subject.
She has also written a recent column in which she discusses the flagellum motor and references her book. The also discusses the mob mentality of leftist ideology in resisting studies that don't support their world view:
The Flash Mob Mentality of Scientific Inquiry
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45747
Actually, the advances in science have recently debunked Darwinian theory completely and using Darwins own set of criteria for tearing apart his theory of evolution and Natural selection. The Cambrian Explosion, even the pre-cambrian mysteries, the Fossil column, the Flagellum Motor, Irreducible Complexity, the presence of DNA in Amino Acids in Protein cells…. ALL of these have PROVEN Darwinism defunct and in Darwin's own words! Even Darwin himself surmised that if any of the aforementioned occured, that it would completely negate all Darwinian theory of Natural Selection and Evolution. C'mon… don't just study to a certain point go beyond it! More and more, true science is beginning to catch up to the Bible's account of God's immense complexity and knowledge.
A better title would be "Was Allah Created after Mohamed". The God we know before mohamed from Bible has standards, that Mohamed's allah won't not qualify for.
Yes, I forgot to mention this in my comment. According to Shiites and Sunnis, Ali believed
and followed Mohammad when he (Ali) was 8 years old. The Shiites glorify Ali and put
him in the rank of God, as the Sunnis glorify Mohammad and consider him a god.
The irony is that both Sunnis and Shiites point a finger at the Christians and accuse them of
worshiping Jesus as a god.
I guess this is the dreadful flaw of every religion. Each religion think itself to be the
only salvation and the only path to heaven.
These lies are concocted by the Shiites. The shiites are masters of lies. The lie so shamelessly that will make a sunni look like a holy man.
I visited the site provided by Wim, (the person who posted the question). The translation of the
Arabic Hadith of Mohammad says: " I and Ali (his cousin) were a light in the hand of Allah 14000
years before he created Adam…….and when he created Adam he split that light between
me and Ali." (absurd)
Also, another Hadith for Mohammad says: "I am the city of knowledge, and Ali is its entrance."
That was because he loved Ali (his cousin), and he considered him his right hand.
Mr. John , did you hear that some NASA scientist claimed that monkeys built a bridge on Lankan ocean with the command of Folklore king lord Ram and try to convince that the story was an historical evidence! Do you also know that those NASA scientists are honuman worshipper, Indian Hindu. So when they moved to worke for NASA they still take their monkey worshipping stupid believe to contaminate NASA.
Do you want me to believe that monkeys in ancient India were intelligent than Hindu human! Your 98% human DNA theory with all other forms of life such as monkey, pigs, donkey, dogs, kittys is such a catastrophy make you parallel to them.
Finally don't think everyone think with ass. Study of archeology and genetic science is two different dimention and you did study neither of those. To be honest very recently you have recently read some poorly writen free online garbase to flourish your knowledge.
Absolutely incorrect. I have a scholarly education, both academic and scientific, and there are plenty of fully professionally qualified scholars around the world who also have religious beliefs.
You also made a rather foolish assumption in thinking that you could know what I do or do not believe. Now who is not thinking outside the box?
Dear Mr John,
If you stick to religious teaching (whatever religion), you perception on life becoming bias. Of course, you believe on your religion 100%, no less. It is no point in discussing about life on earth before Adam because you stick to your Bible and archeological scientists (mostly Christians). You have to think outside the box. Do you know what is the colour of the wind and weather? Do you believe on ancient cultures that were not mentioned in your holy book? Of course, you and other religionists do not believe.
"There were human beings on earth before Adam."
This is a problematic statement since there is no scientific correlation between the Biblical account and known archeological science.
There were human beings on earth before Adam. It is interesting to note that the Malai/Malays inhabited the (Alam Melayu/Malayu/Malay) hundreds of thousands of years ago. They had their own teaching, called "Malaiyana Mulayanam" (Malai/Malay Teaching is The First Teaching – The Root of All Knowledge), consisting of 173 books, created by Svayana more than 790,000 years ago in Buwana Svarnabhumi Tanah Sunda (Alam Malayu). One of the books, known as "Malaiyavahasarahsarahsiyahannamvahasapulatsyaramaningrattanam" teaching on ethical and behaviorial concepts of human beings. After the eruption of Mount Batara Guru (its crater forming Lake Toba and its peak forming Samosir Island), some of the land mass of Alam Malayu/Malai/Malay submerged into the sea (the present South China Sea, Java Sea, Sulu Sea and Gulf of Siam) and the Malay race was divided into sub-races, such as Javanese, Sundanese, Acehnese, Batak, Minang, Bugis, Iban, Kadazandusun, Murut, Filipino, Khmer, etc). After thousands of years, Hinduism and Buddhism came to Alam Melayu whereby the rulers, aristocrats and masses embraced that religion. After a few thousands years later, Islam religion came to Alam Melayu whereby the rulers, aristocrats and masses converted into that religion. The Malays lost their own identity and now they took wholesale the religion and traditions of the Arabs. Later, the Western imperialists and Christianity came into Alam Melayu whereby many of the Malays converted into Christianity (Batak, Iban, Kadazandusun, etc). The Western colonialists divided Alam Melayu and its people into countries, such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, the Philippine, Vietnam, Kampuchea, Laos, etc.
Many scholars and historians missed the early history of South-east Asia, particularly Alam Melayu (or Nusantara). However, Stephen Oppenheimer has shown interest about this region as contained in his book, "Eden in the East."
To know more about "Malaiyana Mulayanam," please see my blog at: http://drilyasharunmalaysia.blogspot.com
I seriously doubt you are as well educated, experienced, well-read, and professionally qualified as I – maybe 10%. Just because I don't subscribe to your religion doesn't mean you need to be arrogant and uppity. This site is a constant stream of the ignorant coming to debase the learned. It is never-ending.
But that's okay. Since irrationalists, Muslims, and leftists generally resort to insults and personal attacks since they are not able to articulate positions, I should feel honored once again to be the subject of a barbarian attack against civilization.
John you just got exposed as a creationist bible thumping idiot. It amazes me how someone can scoff at one delusion and then go on to claim his delusion is reality.
Wim, That scholar in your link had said about the fake hadith, so why did you ask again?
I have studied quite a lot on evolution as well as archeology, and I do not scoff at the story of Adam and Eve. There is insufficient data concerning ancient periods to know precisely what happened in those times. As soon as you think you have found the oldest fossils, something older is found.
Most scientists who believe in God believe that evolution was the means by which God created life. Personally, I divide the creative periods outlined in Genesis such that even if evolution was used by God, I place a definite break between the period of the creation of the animals and the creation of man, notwithstanding that man shares 98% of DNA in common with all other life forms on earth.
There is another grandiose claim by Muhammad in a Hadith that Allah created the soul of Muhammad first and then created the universe only for his love of Muhammad. This most ridiculous claim is also found in the gospel of Barnabas.