The Faithfulness of the Skeptic
Skepticism and belief are situational. No one is always a skeptic or always a believer. Everyone believes in some things and is skeptic of other things. If you believe in a religion, you are skeptic of other religions. If you believe in God, you are skeptic of atheism and if you are an atheist you are skeptic of theism. It is important to be clear on this. No one has the monopoly on belief or on skepticism. It is deceptive to call a group of people skeptic, because everyone is skeptic of something and believer in something else.
In this article I will argue that the so called skeptics are just as faithful believers as the religious believers whom they so love to disparage. But let us first study the anatomy of faith. The following passage is from the skeptic website. http://www.skepdic.com/faith.html
“Faith is a non-rational belief in some proposition. A non-rational belief is one that is contrary to the sum of the evidence for that belief.”
I think that is a fairly good definition of faith. Faith is belief in an irrational and non-provable proposition. Once a proposition is proven with logic or with evidence accepting it requires no faith because then it is knowledge.
Much of our knowledge is based on logic even though there is no evidence for them. Take the example of black holes. No one had heard of black holes when Einstein’s General Relativity presupposed their existence. We still haven’t seen a black hole, but we know they exist. Black holes are not based on faith. They are based on mathematical calculations. Math is a branch of logic. It is through the same process that we know about the dark matter, the dark energy, the worm holes, the big bang, the age of the universe, etc. There is no evidence for any of these. But we are certain of them because we trust our math. So, one way to learn the truth is through logic (math being a part of it). The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
The other way is through evidence. Often we observe things that go against our logic. A thousand years ago, our ancestors could not make sense of meteorites. Stone falling from the sky did not fit in their worldview. They thought it is supernatural. Although this was not the correct answer, it would have been even more absurd to deny the phenomenon on the ground that they did not see it and could not explain it. It is not rational to deny things we don’t understand. When we have evidence of something that defies our understanding, it means something is wrong with our understanding. Today we are not boggled by meteorites because we understand the sky.
Quantum physics is one example of things we don’t understand. Particles come into existence only when an observer looks at them and vanish into nothingness when the observer stops looking at them. They can be in multiple places simultaneously. They split and go through two doors at the same time and then rejoin. They can pair up and remain entangled even if they are separated and placed in two opposite sides of the universe. They can pop in and out of the existence, the past, the present and the future. None of these make sense. Yet no one denies them. These things are observable even though illogical.
Things are false only if they are neither logical nor observable. Here is one example. One of the commentators in this blog nicknamed Slave of Prophet wrote, (I am paraphrasing) who are you to accuse my prophet of pedophilia, mass murder, rape and other crimes, when Allah approved of him? Slave of Prophet exemplifies the logic of believers. In my book, Understanding Muhammad and Muslims, I explained this rationale in detail. A believer does not measure his belief against facts. He measure facts against his belief.
The great Imam Ghazali (1058 – 1111) said: “Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must yield to revelation.” A similar thesis is presented by Paul in 1 Cor. 1:20-25 where he says “the foolishness of God is wiser than (the wisdom of) men”. The statement “Credo quia absurdum” (I believe because it is absurd), often attributed to Tertullian, is based on this passage of Paul. In DCC 5 he said: “The Son of God died; it is by all means to be believed, because it is absurd.” Fideism is founded upon the belief in absurdity and it is the position that has been adopted by all believers.
Blind faith is not the exclusive trait of religious people. Take the example of the following passage from the philosopher David Hume.
“When anyone tells me that he saw a dead man restored to life, I immediately consider with myself whether it be more probable that this person should either deceive or be deceived or that the fact which he relates should really have happened. I weigh the one miracle against the other and according to the superiority which I discover, I pronounce my decision. Always I reject the greater miracle. If the falsehood of his testimony would be more miraculous than the event which he relates, then and not till then, can he pretend to command my belief or opinion.”
Hume and al Ghazzali belong to two different schools of thought and on the surface are opposite to each other. A closer look reveals that they say the same thing. Hume says he is not going to accept any argument if it sounds miraculous, i.e. it cannot be explained rationally. Based on that, we should reject quantum mechanics. There is nothing more weird and miraculous than QM. But we don’t. If we don’t understand it, it’s because there is something we don’t know about reality.
The theory that there is an afterlife cannot be demonstrated mathematically. But there is overwhelming evidence that it exists. In Why I Believe in God and the Afterlife Now, I posted several videos of verifiable cases that prove NDE is objective, real and not imagined.
- A woman describes accurately what the operating team said and did and what surgical instruments they used when she was unconscious.
- A child dies and meets his older sister when no one had told him that his mother had a miscarriage before he was born.
- A woman dies and floats around the building of the hospital. She sees a tennis shoe on the ledger of the third floor. The shoe is found in the same condition and place as she described it.
- A heart attack patient is taken to hospital unconscious. He recognizes the nurse who took his denture and knows where she put it.
- Several surgeons attest that their patients accurately described what the operating team said and did while they were clinically dead and could not have seen or heard even if they were awake since their eyes covered and their ears were plugged.
- Two years old boy remembers that in his past life he was a pilot shot down by the Japanese. He names his ship, his airplane and his navy pal. His parents verify everything and find his friends war time friend who is his eighties.
- A born blind woman claims she saw for the first time during her NDE.
- A Russian scientist dissident is assassinated by KGB. In his NDE he sees and telepathically converses with the baby of his friend who was in distress. He learns the baby has a broken hip. Upon his return to life, he reports that to his friend. An X-Ray shows the hip of the baby is fractured. This man was pronounced dead and had been kept in the morgue for three days. He wakes up in the autopsy room, which shows David Hume’s assumption that such phenomenon should be automatically dismissed as false is wrong.
- A woman hears the mental prayer of her surgeon while he was operating on her. While out of body, she sees a ghost who informs her that her time to die has not come. Her sister who was praying for her in the chapel of the hospital sees the same ghost in the form of a real person who tells her that her sister is going to be okay.
- A young woman is overrun by a truck and in the operation room she leaves her body, goes through the walls and meets her parents and grandmother in the waiting room. She hears their conversation. Her father says he needs to go out to smoke. To her surprise she watches her grandmother who was not a smoker saying she needs one too. When she recovers her parents confirm everything she heard and saw.
- A little girl remembers that in her previous life she was the daughter of the same parents. She remembers her death and says she had attended her own funeral. Since the death of their first child her parents had moved to a different town. When they visit their first town the little girl goes ahead of them and despite the fact that the grave had no marker, she recognizes where her previous body had been buried.
These and countless other reports like these, coming from doctors and patients provide overwhelming evidence that NDE is true. We can’t dismiss them as subjective or anecdotes. One who denies evidence is a faithful. None of these documented stories can be explained with the absurd logic that the oxygen deprived brain produces rich and ultra-realistic experiences. Explain this ridiculous theory in the light of evolution. Why would our survival require such experience in the moment of our death? Even if we accept this absurd theory, it does not explain the above verified cases. Verified means these experience are not hallucinations of a dying brain, but witnessed by others.
Materialism is a religion, based as much on faith as any religion. When materialists are presented with facts, they twist them and deny them with the same zealotry of any religious fanatic.
The cases of NDE are in the millions. They are told by children and adults, theists and atheists and people of all races and cultures. The site http://near-death.com/forum.html has a collection of thousands of NDE stories. Even if we dismiss them all, we can’t dismiss the ones that have been verified . In addition there are NDEs that are shared by the relatives of the dying person. Dr. Raymond Moody has interviewed over 300 people who claim they participated in the NDE of their loved ones. Unless the deniers claim that there is a conspiracy of millions of people including children, adults, believers, atheists, doctors and patients, we have to accept that NDE is a fact and instead of hiding our heads in the sand, try to understand it. Maybe it is time for a paradigm shift. To say they can’t be true because then we will have to believe in God is not a logical explanation.
No fact will have any impact on those who have already made their mind. Faith is a mental disease. Belief blinds. It makes no difference whether one is a religious believer or an atheistic believer. It is the nature of belief that blinds one to facts, not its content.
One does not become a skeptic by questioning other people’s belief. Everybody does that. A skeptic is one who can question his own beliefs. This is the hallmark of the seers and the enlightened. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry can be a skeptic. Those who can only doubt other people’s belief are often as faithful as the religious people they decry.
This documentary made by BBC is a good one about NDE and its effect on people
An alliance of democratic countries is what was mooted by Jr. Bush administration. It is really a good idea and the need of the hour.
nflowers728 Yes there is truth in the Vedantic scripture, i can’t say I am an expert in that but recognize the truth in it. I also found truth in the words and examples of Jesus. I admit that the Bible is a mix bag for truth and fairy tale. It is the latter that prevents most people to see the truth in the Bible. But once our spiritual eyes are opened, we can easily see the truth even when it is mixed with fairy tales, in the same way that an expert gold prospector can detect gold in a rock. Truth shines, but one needs to have his or her spiritual eyes opened to see it.
Ali, you may want to read Vedantic literature which transcends dualistic religions yet recognizes the universality and reality of God as both formless yet with form, impersonal yet personal.
Spiritually you appear very much “there” already.
I recommend the Complete Works Of Swami Abhedananda. His work is stunning!
Love and Blessings,
Ian
Superb commentary and explanations! Spoken with hard won spiritual awareness. Thank you, Ali Sina!
Islam is peaceful :')
But as per my opinion this is painful it's talk less peace more killing, robbery, fighting & hate. So how can say peaceful?
Shame to see many Atheists on here behaving as materialist dogmatists. Everyone but you, are "irrational".
1000 comments…i like good numbers…*wondering when will have time to play again* ah cnt go here often…prefer by email. any question, ask [email protected]. no long message 😉
Immitator?
Im sowwiee..i didnt know were eagerly waiting for me…..:'' *touched* i didnt get notification my dear…A1,A2,A3,A4 : nah
Slavementality,
"MUSLIMS DO NOT WORSHIP BLACK STONE IN KAABA–"
Since the black stone is said to have fallen from heaven, it is an object of veneration by muhammadans. That was exactly what Muhammad meant when he kissed it. But the black stone and the kaaba were also objects of veneration by the pagans of Arabia. Muhammad only continued with the practice. You are right to claim that the kaaba is a symbol of allah's oneness. Before Muhammad took it over, there were 360 idols there belonging to various religions and sects with allah, the idol of the Meccans, being the chief in the pantheon. Muhammad consolidated all the 360 idols into one mega entity and called it "allah". That way he eliminated any possible contention for supremacy among the idols leaving the god of his forefathers, allah, to reign absolutely with no challenger.
@Ali Sina
Muslim do not worship black stone in Kaaba, They kiss it because prophet kissed it. Kaaba is symbol of Allah's oneness that is why Muslim go around aaba. But hindu believe in humans God. They worship Krishna, Rama, Gandhi, Buddha etc as incarnation of God. For many Hindus Buddha was 24th incarnation of God. Muslim believe Allah never descends on earth unlike Hindu Gods. Hindu believe God is in everything even in dirt & latrine. Now, Many Hindus believe Narender Modi is incarnation of Lord Rama because he gave order to kill Muslims in Gujrat riots
@ eagle
When Muslims (inclusive of Pakistani) do it ,they cannot be believed blindly ,because Muslims are followers of inhuman Mohammed ,treachery and Taqiyya are their religious traits.So there is no wonder in your last phrase ,every one will form the same opinion ,nothing special in it.
/Sina goes through periods/
……………………….
he has long sold his rationality
…………………….
now he is sniffing the Indian money .
……………………
must have found an Indian to fund that film!
……………………….
!!!Simply you are coward !!!.
@Aminthemystic,
You have no answer to Ali's remark so you decided to attack him personally (a usual Muslim characteristic)
You have no answer to my remark so you decided to attack him personally (a usual Muslim characteristic)
I am once again providing below both the remark's (Ali's and mine) instead of attacking us personally please give some logical explanation to mentioned nonsense which Islam preaches.
=================
"Hindus don't worship idols. Those idols that you see made of wood and stone are just avatars. The same was true as for the idols in Ka'ba. Only a very stupid man like Muhammad could think that people worship idols. Always, idols represented a certain deity. People keep the picture of a loved one in their valet or hang it on their wall because it reminds them of the person they love. It is not that they love that picture. How stupid of Muhammad and Muslims to not know this simple fact! Muslims go for pilgrimage to Ka'ba and kiss the black stone. Is that not idol worshiping? Do Muslims think God is residing in that building? So why the stupid rituals of Muslims are not idolatry and those of Hindus are? "
==============
"Jesus and Moses greeted Mohammed in jannat and request him to please bargain Allah to reduce prayers from 50 to 5. (I laughed a lot when i heard this 1st time ) request was funny but funnier was the Allah's acceptance
•Muhammad challenged meccan's to produce something similar to quran. (I read Quran 5 times and really it’s tough to produce something as nonsense as Quran)
•Allah inspired Sex hungry Muhammad to marry a 6 year old female kid
•Satan lives in the nose at night "
==============================
Please handle with care while reply you have to use Brain for replying logically and Muslim brain's are most unused one's. Take a cold coffee before reply.. it will help u keeping calm :):):)
🙂
@narcole,
my 4 laughter's are still pending.. please reply soon :):):)
Mr Sina
Other day my Nephew came from S.A ,he came with loads of carriage ,naturally i got curious ,infact large quantity of his luggage contained sealed bottles of water .I casually asked him !!You are in India man why? this much useless burden you have brought .He replied ,it is the stupidity of my Muslim colleagues ,they gave this water to give to their family in India .I asked why? this dirty water ;,no no it is !!Zem Zem!! water ,which they say can, cure any decease .I only said ,let them drink but you do not attempt once.
Have u ever met mr chuck..
How many species of animals god created..but they only know cow monkey and elephant as gods…just cos familiar with…i think if many camels there they would worship too..
Sina goes through periods . . . he has long sold his rationality . . . he went through a Christian phase . . . when they were not playing ball . . . now he is sniffing the Indian money . . . must have found an Indian to fund that film!
A man in USA sees a dog attacking a girl!
He kicks the dog, it dies!
Newspapers report
"LOCAL HERO SAVES LADY FROM DOG"
Man says i'm not American
Report changed
"Foreign Hero Saves girl from Dog"
Man says:
Actually I'm Pakistani
Breaking News:
"Terrorist killed Innocent Dog which was playing
with a girl"
@Ali Sina,
Those are not avatars rather fictious stories. Have you read about Shiva, who was able to place elephant head on Parvati's son Ganesh head after cutting it with Trishul (just think about blood group and size of neck, medically) and good thing is that Shiv was able to find his trishul with whom he cut the head rather getting the same head though he was one lord of the universe 😉 . We keep picture of a loved one in our valet but we don't put water, milk and flower on them 🙂
@Ali Sina,
Those are not avatars rather fictious stories. Have you read about Shiva, who was able to place elephant head on Parvati's son Ganesh head after cutting it with Trishul (just think about blood group and size of neck, medically) and good thing is that Shiv was able to find his trishul with whom he cut the head rather getting the same head though he was one lord of the universe ;-). We keep picture of a loved one in our valet but we don't put water, milk and flower on them 😉
More meandering nonsense . . . and you left out all the "juicy" bits . . .
I am well aware of how people like you convert . . . and what your faith is . . .
–
Look at the stunt Hirsi-Ali pulled . . . now there's a messed up mind.
You have lost plenty of credibility [if you had any] – I mean in these day . . .and you could not flog an anti Islamic book . . .
Well if you hadn't copied and pasted . . .
Stay tuned:
http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/
Before disappearing – this is one thing I will do.
I know for a cultist like you with herd mentality it is hard to understand, but some people don’t have herd mentality and don’t belong to any religion. I happen to be one of them. I can evaluate the good, the bad and the ugly on their merits and not because they are said by this person or that person. As such I love the teachings of Jesus, but I don’t like the fairytale in the Bible. I am impressed by some of the wisdom of the Hindu sages but I don’t like their myths. I very much love the teachings of Buddha, but I don’t call myself a Buddhist. I am a free thinker. As a cultist, this is beyond your ken.
Now that you are getting old and maybe ready to meet your maker, don’t you think it is time to ask for guidance and before the next sickness knocks you out completely and you find yourself in hell, find the truth and accept your lord?
Before, I did not believe in hell and heaven. Now I do and even though before I thought Muslims are just fools, I now know a great number of them will go to hell. The concept of hell was very hard to understand and believe in, but considering the amount he evil that exists in the world and particularly in Muslims I now think it is justice. Muhammad is in hell along with Hitler. Not all Muslims will go to hell, but all Muslims who follow the evil deeds of Muhammad will.
Your heads gone! Hasn't it?
So what are you? Hindu, Christian, Atheist?
– –
So when Spence and co . . . did not bother to fund your movie. . . are you eyes looking at India now? Has dear Geller took her love away?
For a while Dawkins had love-in . . . then withdrew . . . Pipes still maintains to be a serious scholar . . . he wouldn't want to be seen with you. He even keeps his torch for Geller hidden. I have tried asking . . . this is one thing he will not respond over!
– –
" Only a very stupid man like Muhammad could think that people worship idols."
The Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians. . . . perhaps even Buddhists. . . .
Hindus don’t worship idols. Those idols that you see made of wood and stone are just avatars. The same was true as for the idols in Ka’ba. Only a very stupid man like Muhammad could think that people worship idols. Always, idols represented a certain deity. People keep the picture of a loved one in their valet or hang it on their wall because it reminds them of the person they love. It is not that they love that picture. How stupid of Muhammad and Muslims to not know this simple fact! Muslims go for pilgrimage to Ka’ba and kiss the black stone. Is that not idol worshiping? Do Muslims think God is residing in that building? So why the stupid rituals of Muslims are not idolatry and those of Hindus are?
Furthermore, Allah is Devil. I rather worship a dog than the Devil.
Worshiping Almighty Allah is only ultimate path towards truth.
@denialsnoproof
Prophet did not rape with Aisha he married with her. And he got divine sanctioned from Allah for doing this. Prophet was 54 years old at time of marriage with Aisha but he had strength of 30 man even in this age. And love does not look age.
@Eagle
Hindu are dumb because they do not read world greatest book that is Quran. Quran is world greatest science book, greatest literature, greatest facts about history, greatest book in which world creation mentioned accurately. Today scientist claiming universe is so vast and expending but prophet Muhammad already explained it in holy Quran 1500 years before
@Ali Sina
HIndu are worst of people. Instead of worshiping Allah they worship Idols and believe God is in everything. I pity on them. How fool they are! They do not know Allah reside above the 7th sky as per Islam. They would have read Quran they would aware about the true God.
Hi,
read it also 🙂
http://akshat.freedombulwark.com/?p=8
hope you remember shiv ka lund katne pe shiv na kya kiay tha, phir parvati ne pura lund le liya tha, then after shivling come into picture. be ready for eagleLing then 😉
hope you remember shiv ka lund katne pe shiv na kya kiay tha, phir parvati ne pura lund le liya tha, then after shivling come into picture. be ready for eagleLing then 😉
Dear Stubborn Fanatic Narcole,
When you are losing on Islam then you put Islam on backseat and put-forth girl side of u.. to seek some concessions… sorry trick (fan and all) is not applicable here:)
Fanatics are object of fun and tickling, you just talk to them as you are talking to a 4 yr old child.. A Fanatics brainwashed brain will provide childlike replies which will force you to laugh. I am asking you questions to add some more laughter's in my life.. ur last reply was also full of fun .. thanks for it. And yes its really
impressive to see the garbage collection capability of your brainwashed brain..Sholat , jumat, na3uzubillah, ar rehman, ar rahim 🙂
anyway why afraid of coming on main article"beat your Muslim wife":-).. why hiding here ?? I would like more people to have same laughter's as I am having. Please reply there else i have to do extra work of pasting your replies there.
Now I am ensuring my future laughter's. so asking more questions:)
1. Your boyfriend western will not alive for long if he turn true Muslim. so be ready for new wife colleges and yes its not about ur preferences to have one more, Islam provide authority only to men's.he can bring 5-6 or more wife out of ur wish just let him become a true Muslim 🙂
2. Ayub used different tool on times based of his anger level.. All the best for adventurous beating… 🙂 🙂
3. come-on don't play taquiyah here, his uttering talaq thrice is enough to subside u forever.
4. please describe na3uzubillah as per your garbage collection.
Eagerly waiting for ur full of fun replies 🙂
Today not busy..so im being generous again 😉 oh u so interested in my privacy. maybe ur a fan? ♥-♥
A1. since i might be a busy wife so i prefer one more wife for my man. but hes half western so he always refused. he prefers serial monogamy.
A2. Same tool like prophet Ayyub's tool 😉
A3. Hm, we used to break up and make up. So theres possibility for talaq 3 times. and yes the third time wouldnt be easy, cos if its easy it would be 70 times of talaq. Hm..let me count how many times we broke up for almost 4 years..yep about 70 times. broke up twice every month cos he was too stubborn listening to me to be better moslem, it took 2 years for him to start sholat and jumat, then majlis ta3lim etc.
A4. no need to sleep, just aqad. na3uzubillah.
Thanks for being so interested and curious. @}-
as you are afraid of coming there so i should post my question here only 🙂
M really eager to know your new excuses.
Dear Stubborn fanatic Narcole,
You being A devoted Muslim female I have few questions to you.
Q1. How many co-wife you would like to share with your devoted Muslim husband ? (As your beloved and peaceful religion Islam allow him to do so)
Q2. What will be your choice of beating tool ? (As your beloved and peaceful religion Islam allow him to do so)
a. Leather belt
b. Wooden roll (provided he will not break your bones)
c. Rubber pipe
d. Bathroom slipper
Q3. Would you like to reunite with your husband once he utter Talaq thrice ? (As your beloved and peaceful religion Islam allow him to do so)
Q4. Will you pay the price for reunion as Islam preaches ? (As your beloved and peaceful religion Islam instruct to sleep with other man and then talaq him in order to reunite)
Note :- All other please kept on asking here more question's and don't allow her to change the topic as Muslim's are good in this art
@narcole1919721,
This from a person,by own admission, lacking mental-stability most of her time.
Hehehe..im very happy now with my bf. you may comment as you like there. Im just enjoying my life 😉
Lol ur a christian. But u talk as if its you who teaches islam and created islam. Pfft. Where did u learn islam x'D nope. my sheikh taught in kitab that mukmins should only help good people. If wanna give zakat or shadaqah, must be sure its for good people and wont be misused. Helping bad poor people can mean helping or supporting evil 🙂 even giving money to relatives shouldnt be for free, sheikh taught that giving money just like that is wrong. For example, theres naughty sibling asking for money, must not give for free. Must make agreement, if wanna take the money, must change not to be naughty anymore. If listen and obey, will get more. But if dont wanna change, wont get anymore.
Hm? Nope. The woman is very money minded person. she dedicated her life for money. She kept collecting money, but the wealth always gone in weird unexpected ways. god dislikes people who have more wealth but not sharing with good poor people. Sharing money to zhalim poor people means helping zhalimness itself.
I know what you know, but you dont know what i know 🙂
Dear, quran maybe small to your mind. Cos you only count the pages. But you didnt identify its codes also the combinations and the meanings in each fields. And you still have no knowledge how to decrypt. What im feeling is that i pity those who dont know and not aware. Its been 3 months in alisina org, and i met you guys but none of you found what i found. Have u ever heard a saying, inside a seed, theres a mountain?
The number of trees increasing, cos humans aware that they fell them more, and will fall them more than now. Your statistic is flawed again, dear. In fact they arent healing the nature well, have u ever realized that a turkey gets fed and comfort from day-1 to day-1000. And on day-1001, it gets slaughtered. The turkey thought its master was a very nice and caring human and loved it like his own son. We are not the turkey that you can fool with 1000 days food, and then get destroyed.
Dear All,
Just to inform you that Ali Sina has posted a new and very interesting article "Beat your Muslim Wife". Read the article and all please imagine narcole facing same treatment from her husband. Later We will all will ask question to nercole about her fate as a muslim's wife. 🙂
@narcole1919721,
//Oh mr chuck you need to learn about qadha and qadar//
Unfortunately for you I know about only too well.
@narcole1919721 ,
//Jizyah also some kind of protection facility for the payers//
Jizyah was to be paid in a complete state of submission. There is no equality in an Islamic state even theoretically.
There are 7 reasons for the payment of zakat. The 4th reason is to support "THOSE WHO STRUGGLE IN THE CAUSE OF ALLAH. THIS INCLUDES THOSE WHO FIGHT IN DEFENCE OF THEIR RELIGION AND COUNTRY AS WELL AS THOSE WHO ENGAGE IN ACTIVITY WHICH AIMS TO SUPPORT AND PROPAGATE ISLAM".
The terrorists who have been causing havoc all over the world fit into this class of "those who struggle in the cause of allah and who aim to support and propagate islam". They and especially the families they leave behind can also be classified as 'poor people' who qualify for zakat. The woman in your story lost her wealth due to poor management. The loss has nothing to do with paying zakat to the wrong people.
//"nature is cruel because of humans mistakes. Dont runaway from humans own sins for treating the nature badly. "// Oh, I surely admit to humans mistakes and them treating nature badly, causing much destruction and extinction.
But what biologists and idealists can do with the help of technology to help increase both food production per square meter and restoration of nature is also breath-taking.
Example; It can now be known what the exact composition of a square meter of soil, in depth, is.
Other example; the number of trees in the world is INCREASING, not DECREASING, as I thought only a short while ago, when informed of the cutting and burning of woods in Africa, Brazil, Indonesia.
But … In America and Western Europe trees expand a lot now, in China millions of trees have been planted recently. In Africa they build a "wall of trees" in 11 countries in or south of the Sahara from the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean. In Senegal alone they planted 2 million trees last year. It is thought that through new forest the desert can be slowly conquered. And when desalination get's cheaper, then water becomes abundantly available and much desert can be made green. With the help of CO2, a big portion of which is actually beneficial to nature, as may be a little global warming! Already satellite images do show substantial increasing vegetation on places on Earth. There is even the "Sahara Forest Project".
Mankind, it's technology and CO2 can also be GOOD for nature!
//"The biggest data is stored in lauh mahfuz."//
From the internet: //"The word lauh means plank, as in Koran (54:13), and also a tablet for writing, and mahfuz means that which is guarded. The expression lauh mahfuz (guarded tablet) occurs but once in the Koran: "Nay, it is a glorious Koran in a guarded tablet" (85:21-22)."//
My words cannot describe the huge discrepancy between the oceans of information, data, expressed in somekind like "terabytes" now, that are available to billion humans on the internet, in the cloud, and the tiny droplet, a few "KILOBYTES" that is the Quran, the guarded tablet. And it's puny, tiny derivative teachings.
Of course you put your highest trust in God, and he consider him all-knowing and so unbeatable in information. But you can only ACCESS HIS puny, tiny holy texts and tafsir. And I consider the Quran and Islam still manmade and so I compare one manmade school of thought with others.
And what is now unfolding on internet, in the cloud, is so huge, that it defies description. But these big data, while infringing heavily on privacy, will underpin powerfully policy-making in government, huge medical progress, recovery of the economy.
I think mankind, despite all her imperfection, mistakes, failures has already brought about great progress too, and I trust in us humans ourselves to bring us much more progress, with the help of our brains, science and technology (with doubling computerpower every 18 months, while the Quran must remain unaltered) in the 21st century.
It seems you look back to the past, trust the Islamic tradition, to guide you and mankind and have no great trust in mankind itself, Narcole.
Seeing me believe in some past and future delightful progress in mankind itself, can you express your belief in the past success of Islamic tradition and your trust in a great future for at least the Muslims or don't you have it? Is your focus more on some near judgement day and the next life?
nothing wrong in that site it is just against superstition . not hinduism.
what about mohammad flying on a woman faced donkey?
he did rape a 9 year old girl when he was a 54 year old scum. hahahah
mian apan kata lund ko sambhalon nahin toh poora katega.
First of all, we must know what zakat is, and who have to pay zakat and who have to receive. The purpose of zakat for the payers is to clean the wealth. The purpose of zakat for the takers is to help poor people. There some family member asked my sheikh that she had lots of wealth, and she did pay zakat. But why the wealth is gone now? Whats her mistake? Sheikh answered, " did you give the zakat to RIGHT persons?" She said, " idk, i just know i must pay zakat. And i gave the money to amil zakat guys. Its up to them where they should give to." Sheikh shook head, "no. Thats the reason why ur wealth gone. The zakat didnt go to right place. You have to be sure who will receive the zakat, and they must meet requirements in kitab. Not just randomly. Many poor people. But zakat must be only given to real good people that are poor. Who practice religion well, and not sinners. If you give zakat to sinner, the zakat wont be counted. Invalid."
jizyah is used to build mosques, buy freedom for muslim prisoners of war in nonmuslim states, fund Islamic charities meant to help muslims. Jizyah also some kind of protection facility for the payers, and sign for willing of living in peace. Anyone who hurt the jizyah payers must get punishment, either moslem or infidel. Any moslem who hurt the jizyah payer will never get heaven reward.
Mr chuck im glad to see you smile. You look more handsome when you smile. Oh ur having sore throat? Drink something hot please…:' Btw what is cult sir? Oh mr chuck you need to learn about qadha and qadar more then come back again 🙁
@ Agracean,
You are still obsessed with the imaginary semitic god described in Judaism, Chrisitianity and even Islam, a god who punishes people for worshiping other than him. This is ridiculous.
All souls are fractals of God's soul and hence all souls are gods. A fractal is something which is both a part and whole. Our souls fractaled from God's soul long ago and each soul contains God's soul in whole. So God does not bother about our worship. You need to come out of Chrisitian/Judaic/Islamic dogma's spell that says we should worship God alone who is sitting on a throne in heaven.
One of the purposes for which zakat is put is to support the 'holy warriors' or their families if they die in the process. Zakat has gone to fund the 'holy warriors' who attacked the church in Pakistan and those who stormed the shopping mall in Kenya. Each ended with massive loss of lives. Among the attackers in Nairobi is a 'British' woman whose husband was a 'holy warrior' who died in the 7/7 bombings in London. In accordance with the muhammadan unholy writ, zakat will be channeled to care for the children of the terrorist parents since they fought to further the cause of allah. So zakat essentially is contribution to bring death and destruction to the world.
But the most stupid of all is that because of political correctness, British tax payers money will be spent to look after those children so that when they grow up, they will never depart from the path of their parents instead of repatriating them to wherever their murderous parents or grandparents crawled out of. The reason is that "they are British nationals". British nationals my foot.
According to the Kenyan Foreign Minister, Amina Mohammed, "two or three" of the attackers of the Gateway Mall in Nairobi are Americans and one is a British woman. There are no Chinese or Japanese. Thanks to political correctness and the naivety of the left, America and Briton are now exporters of muhammadan terrorism/terrorists.
In a matter of three days the "religion of peace" (piss or pieces if you may) has claimed 81 lives in Peshawar, Pakistan, more than 60 in Kenya and at least 5 in Iraq.
Oh Muhammad, your legacy is a source of woe and misery to the world.
@narcole1919721,
//Tax is for infidels//
Jizyah :-). Thats another crime perpetuated by Islam. This is the 'equality' that you argue for.
@narcole1919721
//But admit that humans cant do the best, they say that they are doing their 'best' which is actually not the best of all. //
But surely they can do their best. For example they can leave an evil cult like Islam.
//The biggest data is stored in lauh mahfuz//
Ahem. You were not sure whether it is Qadha or Qadar thats written 🙂
To change the world, we need to change our own nation first, to change a nation, we need to change the society first, to change society, we need to change family first. To change the family we need to change our own individual first. how can a society becomes good, if the marriage in family which consist of a wife/mother, husband/father and children arent taken care and managed well, even best? God already pointed out that a success marriage of a couple makes the couple as his best makhluq. Evil also pointed out this to his army. To ruin bani adam is from destroying a marriage.
*shakes head* nature is cruel because of humans mistakes. Dont runaway from humans own sins for treating the nature badly. Big data eh? Not biggest data. The biggest data is stored in lauh mahfuz. How can humans compete with that. Humans can do something big and bigger, great and greater as progress. But admit that humans cant do the best, they say that they are doing their 'best' which is actually not the best of all.
In management of organization, there top managers and middle managers. Top management should mainly provide leadership to set company policy and strategy. a more high-level form of management ,where a leader is analogous to an admiral of a fleet of ships. The admiral determines the best plan to defeat a rival fleet is oposition forces at a particular spot, but leaves details of how to navigate and what weapons to use to subordinates. Lower-level managers can distinguish themselves by taking initiative and functioning effectively without constant supervision. Women are pillars of nation. In here women are the middle managers. And men are the workers. an organization without these two types of management wont be a big organization who could reach all goals perfectly. if the managers, became the workers, then who would manage the organization with the plans?
Yeah, even presidents need bodyguards wherever they go. While wives can have bodyguard voluntarily protecting them wherever they go with love and care. and who say by force? No force in religion. Its clear which is right and which is wrong. Whoever choose wrongness the wrongness are for themselves. Arab saudi is a nation. Not a religion. the rules in that country is applied by the government especilally the polices who work to the government. Either its good or bad for the society, it is the government who forces. you're in confusion to differ which is from religion and which is from government.
//"Please learn that humans technology always has side effects. gods perfect technology is this nature. you are only speculating."//
The important thing is that there is much, much progress. This nature often also is very cruel and imperfect. It is OK, but we should be and are using our (god-given?) brains well. To get to know and augment it.
The dumbest speculation probably is to expect nothing (substantial) to change.
We are living in a period of history (1965-?2035?) in which "Moore's law" operates; every 18 months the capacity of computers doubles (whether you notice or want it or not).
The amount of available information in a weekend for a person is now higher than that available for a person in the 18th century his/ her entire life! It has increased probably tenfold or more the last decade! "BIG DATA" is going to change society and policies in a very big way. Denying or ignoring THAT is dumb and wrong. Especially by young persons with hopefully a long life ahead of them.
//"the wife must not abandon her task as MOTHER at home, and as WIFE. Cos her priority starts from husband, children, then society. Not to help one but abandon others."//
Yes, you explained well, and I agree with most of what you say. Just don't oppose the mixing and mingling, cooperation (and not just doing it in the company of her husband!!!) I talked about.
Life for a human being, so also a woman, is sooooooo much more than what you focus on. In a hopefully long healthy life. If a woman gets to 100, until 30 she can be still developing, starting, mixing, from 30 to 55 she can be a great mother, working only part-time, with 2 or 3 pregnancy-leave. Than, from 55 to 100, she can still be a worthwhile contributor at work and hopefully as grandparent. Do you see the bigger context, perspective?
Please learn that humans technology always has side effects. gods perfect technology is this nature. you are only speculating.
Women mixing with men in society? Dont you still see women mix with men in moslem society? Wife can help husband by working TOGETHER, if the condition emergency for finance, and its safer cos she has the body guard around, not a boss around to enslave her. She can talk and help society too, with his husband. And mix, together with husband, especially if no kids 🙂 but if they have alot of kids, the wife must not abandon her task as MOTHER at home, and as WIFE. Cos her priority starts from husband, children, then society. Not to help one but abandon others.
Tax payers what? Tax for infidels? In islam theres shadaqah hibah and zakat. Zakat for poor people, shadaqah is charity, hibah is gift. Tax is for infidels. Low birth rates? Its just ur prediction. Its not you who determine the birth of babies which souls already were created long time ago. Ur statistic is flawed. One child or many children, it doesnt change the kodrat of a mother. Wow is this future you want? Men being weak and dumb to feed himself and his wife? Wow, obviously, ur future dream is also flawed. Poor mentality. Its not the condition that makes them poor financially. Its their mentality. And you support such mentality for men.
//"How many women got raped in this world, were the polices there?"//
I am in favor of trying to COMPARE. With the past. With the performance of husbands and police when a choice between the 2 is asked for,
concerning our topic of women going out into the street, the public space. Where you said the woman needed the husband to protect here there (at home he should protect her, but you talked about husband-escort in public space).
Police are more preferable and more effective than husband-escort in public space, they were more so as time went on, IMO. The Saudi idea of women forced to be accompanied, guarded at all time by husband or male relative while in public space, while otherwise confined, imprisoned to the home, is simply abhorrent!!! Very much against utmost possible freedom and autonomy of a person, as in democratic law and custom.
Thanks for long and good answer. I agree with all the positive and constructive points that you raise. But it is you who seems to wish to OBJECT, ADVOCATE AGAINST, PREVENT the idea of women, in their hopefully and expected long, long lives working outside the home,
mixing and mingling with many other humans, and so also men. Let women do all those things inside and combine this with work-contribution to society and interaction outside, I say.
About the 100 years living; well, I read a lot about it on the internet. The medical profession can be greatly enhanced in the near future, through unbelievable accurate and affordable frequent checks of the bodies, DNA-sequencing, skype-connection, smartphone-connection, very advanced bio- and nanotechnology. Living healthy for the bulk of 100 years, looks to become the new normal! And isn't that great!
//"I still think women working outside is another form of slavery."// Here you exaggerate, twist reality.
Look, society heavily invests in educating women and society provides married women (about whom we are talking) with money with which they can buy all necessities and many luxurities. Moreover women can use all the possibilities and advantages of modern society, like medical care, police protection etc…..
On average women should contribute to society in return with meaningful tasks in jobs. If women stay at home and do not work at home or in a job for the bulk of her adult life, after being educated and paid and given access to society's services,
then the TAXPAYERS are duped and THEY are slaves of the women they invested in and keep investing in her whole life through mucht tax.
Remember: Working is also in a way the substitute for providing oneself with food, clothing, shelter and necessary survival through hunting, gathering, farming. Now let others provide women with food, but let women in return do something meaningful FOR the other providers of food, clothes, Shelter etc.
Pregnancy and child-raising will in future cost only a small part of the woman's life, because of ever higher longevity and tendency of much lower birthrates than in the past. And if women, and sometimes men, work part-time, work and raising a small family can be well combined. And this is for the good of society and a just return of taxpayers investment in women.
Protection is by the police? Dont make me laugh. How many women got raped in this world, were the polices there? Hm. Oh some there and some not. Some there cos the police themselves are the rapists, and some not cos busy eating doughnuts and drink coffee.
Im being here also with my bfs permission. What is he, my boss? Nope. Im just training ourselves transparency, and decrease misunderstanding, decrease negative thoughts, accusations, and decrease fights. Am i afraid of him? Nope. I just respect my man. And i want him to respect me. We often fought bcos no reports or no 'permissions'. I often got mad at him cos he didnt tell me where he went and with who, and kept making me worried. And so did he to me. So asking permission here isnt in fear concet. But in worries concept. By asking permission, it feels more relieving and easier to set plans about next and schedules wont be ruined. You want women to mix with men, in what way. Each woman for all men, or one woman for one man? Do you know what marriage is? Its a holy and sacred thing. Think and compare the possibilities of ruined marriage, from one woman for all men, and one woman for one man concept. Think also and compare the effects to the children. Did you make survey about childrens happiness from different type of life style? Do you think a kid is happy only with expensive toys? When a baby is born, the first person it knows is its mom. And the first teacher. Woman, wife, or mother, is foundation of a house. Even pillar of nation. If the women of a nation are bad, the nation will be bad. If the women of a nation are good, then the nation will be good. Behind a great man, theres a great woman. Its the great woman that makes the great man. It doesnt mean a woman is behind a man. It is a man who needs a great woman to make him great. A great person also comes from great mother, who raised him well with all love and care. Noone can replace a mothers position. Even a father is only 1/3 in giving influence for a kid to grow as someone. Well i dont need to tell who, but someone confessed that she got raped when her parents went to other city and they asked some relative to take care of her and sibling. And then what? It gave lots of trauma and she has tendency to do illegal sex when grown up since shes not virgin anymore and she thinks shes 'dirty' and not clean anymore. It changed her mindset. Until now she didnt tell her parents cos afraid and ashamed. Well this story can grow to new bad stories since she already started it with something bad and already think its bad already and hard to fix it. And you can imagine what will happen to her next generations mindset, since she already had such, and her parents started it. While the parents still feel innocent and did nothing wrong, only went to other city. And left the kids to someone they knew.Raising kids is a cumbersome task? I dont think so. For example, i couldnt cook before. Everytime i tried to cook i got depressed. Plus women around me couldnt cook well, so we often bought food. Eventhough sometimes we cooked too but the results very disappointing, wrong recipes. I got depressed when i had to cook in emergency or even seeing messed up kitchen. I also often fought with my bf saying please dnt force me to cook, just buy food. But then he snapped at me and mocked me and hurt my pride and made me wanting to learn cooking seriously. I found good teacher. And now i can cook. Tasty recipes. She also taught me how to cook clean fast tasty and easily. And she made me like this…D:….that easy? See the point here. Anything thats done with 3lm, is easy and sufficient. Raising kids isnt cumbersome if we know the 3lm. Ive been learning kitab about husband-wife duties and rights…and it made me ..D:..like this too. Iv seen lots of conflicts or fights in others marriages, and reading this made me realize the causes, and how to prevent or deal with. Being a wife needs 3lm, being a mother also needs 3lm. It is so wrong lovers marry without knowledges. Knowledges make things easier. With knowledges, small actions can be more sufficient that lots of actions but wrong. What do you mean by for wealth being and health? You mean guys thesedays are weaker and dumber to gain wealth? No, its just their mindset. And they dont have passion enough now. The problem is in their mind, not from the women. Where the pride of men now? For womens health? Did you read that women who work outside have more risk of cancers? And women who do house tasks decrease risk of cancers? Woman can have hobbies. But not to be slaves outside for seeking money.You hope in future…100 years? Just hope? Did you do long research yet about the short and long effects?
🙂 every woman is beautiful, and beauty is relative. One woman can look attractive to some guys, and another woman look attractive to other guys. Women are created beautiful. Even if you think one woman isnt attractive for you, other guys can disagree with you. About unmarried women, they are unmarried, like me, who said no respect? And we were talking about married women working outside. But there problems with it since they're married and they have husband. So, to unmarried women like me, can we work outside? Ofcourse. How can we find men if we stay inside. *rolls eyes* but thats not the purpose. Working outside isnt to find men, but to seek money to be independent. Plus we dont have kids yet so no responsibilities inside. Hey its not only ur family whose women success by working outside. Many aunties and female cousins of mine too. Very success, financially. But not in other fields. Id rather call them crazy now. No, not as insult. But their status. They got money but they are not happy and depressed. And they keep spending money to entertain themselves but they arent happy and still frustated. They dont have perfect lives, eventhough lots of money. They do this by force. Many bad things happened while they're busy at work. Should i give examples? The husband cheated while they were busy, and spent the money with other woman. The husband used drugs, the husband became 'maid' at house, the husband lazy at house and the busy wife still had to take care of house, husband and kids too, the maid teasing husband, the wife couldnt work in peace worrying what the husband doing now, the kids got frustated cos no time to consult about their lives with mother, the husband got low self esteem, the kids seek attention, the kids find 'entertainments' outside, etc. And many more. No need to tell further. My bf always pushes me to be superwoman, and supports me to work outside and make him proud. But i always refuse, cos from experiences i know that lots of money cant buy happiness nor create harmony. Money isnt everything. And its NOT womans task. A woman can manage money, but not seek money. Lol dont misunderstand the sentence a woman can manage money by spending it as she likes. But it really means, to manage. And i disagree that women are sex slaves at home. Whats the definition of sex slave actually? By force? No force in marriage. If dont wanna do it with him, just dont marry him. *rolls eyes* and from my explanation above you see, which shows women as slaves more…inside or outside? Im still fighting with my bf cos i still think he wants me to be his slave by working outside. I still think women working outside is another form of slavery.
WWJD…
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//" Im a woman, and many moslemahs also go out. They dont live in prison."//
I know Muslimah's can go out and do not live in prison. You describe a pretty good life for a married woman (IF she agrees to live thus). I don't disagree with it except where you said:
//"For examples, a woman cant go out without the husbands permission. Agree? A woman cant go out alone without husband/muhrim, for her safety (you see how islam really cares and protect the women from bad possibilities). "// @#$%^&*() Grrrrr. No! No more does SHE need HIS permission than HE HERS! Agreement between 2 independent but cooperating adults is great. But no one can be the boss. And protection in good democratic countries is by the police, NOT the husband.
What you are against; women too much mingling with men, in roughly the same numbers as men, I missed in your otherwise good extensive explanation of the married life for women.
It's OK if women only work part-time, but mingling with men from school/ study (there they also should mingle, from toddler-stage) until retiring is very important for both the men and the women, for their well-being and health.
If women have interests and hobbies, like religions, politics, or fitness, all sorts of studies and activities, outside work, there too they should seek to mingle with men all their lives.
About the female task of raising children; First of all, our society invests a lot in girls as much as in boys and raising children is just one worktask among many for women, who ideally in big numbers should contribute to the economy, all their lives, except when being 8 months pregnant and starting with children.
Women do not need to raise more than 2 or 3 children. And day-care or grandparents can relieve their child-care-task. And I think being pregnant and taking care of children was and is a very CUMBERSOME TASK for women, which should stay limited, in order for women to have a much more divers life.
And we hope in future women live up to 100 years, and being pregnant and raising children only takes up # 25 years, of which only 18 or 27 months women need to be pregnant. It is not so much that a woman needs a man for life, but that children, in those 25 years, need a father very much. For the rest of the life of the woman she CAN be independent from the man, in this era and this is important. Everybody free to choose to cooperate and how long, not necessarily LIFE-LONG anymore.
Perhaps, Narcole, Islam is behind the times in the 21st century in an increasingly URBAN world.
/ A beautiful woman is a human being, with high value and should be appreciated and respected. Especially married beautiful woman, and religious./
Why?a married "beautiful' woman needs respect and appreciation.Why? an average woman is deprived of respect and appreciations.Moreover why? only a married woman should be respected why? not an unmarried . My niece is a successful woman (a professional of par excellence) settled in US .Because of her hard work she is enjoying her family life ( her husband who is also a professional). Since both are working they can afford to live a luxury life (she had big mansion with swimming pool and every other luxury at her feet) .Now tell me why a woman shouldn't work and contribute to the national economy .More over my niece had only one kid .But Muslim women consider them selves sex machine and produce more worms,it is not their fault ,but that maniac Mohammed ,who made you people only item of sex pleasure .Don't go after story's be practical .
And about dying or sick husband, i think the story of prohet Ayyub 3alaihis salam when hes sick and his wife can be a lesson for us.
About homosexuality, even if you let all women naked around, a guy still could get sexual disorientation.
A beautiful woman as possession, not for other men to see? Wait a minute. Please use proper words. Possession, and show. Hm. Bad words. A beautiful woman is a human being, with high value and should be appreciated and respected. Especially married beautiful woman, and religious. More values. Since shes married she should show her loyalty more, not show her aurat. Burqa is useless for old women or not beautiful people? I dont think so. Burqa can cover their 'ayb too. And…hm…i sense some exaggeration here about 'women stay at home' and 'women dont work/go out". These sentences give impression to readers as if women stay in prison for punishment, and NEVER GO OUT. Lol another misunderstanding in grammar? Im a woman, and many moslemahs also go out. They dont live in prison. Who say they cant go out? They can go out as long as not do whats forbidden in kitab. What things are forbidden which make for women to go? We all need to learn these forbidden things. For examples, a woman cant go out without the husbands permission. Agree? A woman cant go out alone without husband/muhrim, for her safety (you see how islam really cares and protect the women from bad possibilities). Agree? A woman can go out to seek religion 3lm if the husband lacks of religion knowledge. And next, "a woman can work outside, if emergency" and what kind of emergency which is permitted? Every person has different definition of emergency situation. But note that only certain emergency situations in religion. And i disagree with the term isolation. Cos the women dont feel that. They still can go out, for example, picking up the kids from school if the husband is busy working, have business together with husband (in this case its safe to work outside, cos the husband works with her and could supervise and protect her in case bad strangers have bad intentions toward her). And another example is a woman being a teacher, in female comunity. Like Aisha did. Bcos in some learning, women are better in teaching. Especially for explaining private female knowledge. And if a woman becomes a teacher, she should teach only in muhrim community. Where strange men have no need/access to pass by. And another condition a married woman must consider is, the time of working, doesnt not exceed. She must not forget, shes married. Seeking money isnt her task. She cant dedicate her time for outside more than inside house. And she has a husband and kids too. And respinsibilities inside. Now tell me, how many things outside that meet these requirements? How many employers try to enslave the employees with their rules in the companies? While in house, women arent slaves. The tasks of cooking, washing, taking care of children arent responsibilitis of the wifes only. Its the husbands responsibilities too. A husband cant snap at wife is shes too busy taking care of children or house and forgot to cook. Such task like cooking is actually each own task. Wife cooks only as 'help'. If she cant cook, the husband has to cook himself. Same like changing kids diaper. Its not only wifes task. If the kid pees or poops, the husband cant snap at the wife and force her to wash, as if its her job. Its his kid too, he has to wash himself too if hes able. Another example is buying groceries, its actually the husbands task n duty. Cos its safer for the woman not to meet strange bad guys in market. Of course they may go to market together too. But its not wifes duty. These days wives go to market since the husbands busy and bound by contract with bosses. When the husband goes home bringing groceries, the wife should welcome the husband and take the groceries directly from his hands. Shouldnt ignore him and let him put on the table and get busy alone. Even if possible should right when he arrives from vehicle. In here it emphasizes respect. Not fear. A wifes task is not to make the husband frown. To make him happy and smile in right way. Anyway, a husband shouldnt make the wife sad or depressed too. If shes sad or mad, a husbands duty is to entertain her, with jokes, or seek entertainment outside together like watching drama, play, or bring to her favorite places. When shes pleased enough and happy, then may go home. There weekends, a husband can use the time for family time inside or outside together. Is this what you call prison in islam?
Hmm..cant load 257. okay ill reply here.
Demsci i want some explanations from dear narcole.Suppose if the earning husband is diagnosed with some deadly decease and unable to earn the lively hood for his family ,can the illiterate young wife take the responsibility of earning for her family .If so what kind of work (preaching Islam or a domestic servants in others house ),what will be the fate of Burqha then.
I have given you explanation that I want men and women to MIX, Narcole. But you emphasize that men and women have different roles to play and that they should play them properly in order to have more harmony and happiness.
I confess that I don't know much about that gender-role-thing you bring up. Maybe you are right, I just don't want your ideal gender-role-assignment by men and women all their lives to block, diminish my desire for an ideal gender-mixing society. I prefer gender-mixing all life everywhere over gender-role-assignment when the two contradict. But freedom of choice for all and women being an asset and not a burden remains key.
Thanks for profound deep answer, Narcole. And thanks Sakat for support. And Chuck, you seem to confirm my thought that a beautiful woman is ultimately meant as possession of A man, and so not for other men to see, enjoy. Because burqa's are for use outside the house, and meant to DEPRIVE all other men than the husband from admiring and enjoying the beauty of a woman in her prime (Burqa is totally useless for old, no longer beautiful women, I think). I suspect the same kind of thinking is the motivation for Narcole's desire and plan to let "Women get married, children and then stay at home, even though they can do WORK at home, meaning the investment in education of girls is not wasted then (which is good in your plan).
So there you have my one basic objection to the situation of beautiful women in marriage, staying at home, Narcole. I abhor it when women are isolating themselves in the home (it goes without saying that forcing them to do so is EGOISTIC, CRIMINAL, DESPICABLE for me).
Because I want women after school to go out to work and MINGLE with men. To create a situation of mixed workteams everywhere, having lunch in mixed companies, of mixed passengers in subways, and of mixed crowds on the streets. Especially young men and women ideally should be able to easily get to know each other's character at the workplace, to enjoy and learn and be able to compare and so as not to deprived of much diversity and beauty of character and opinion in the other gender.
Then, when people get older, until retiring, I still think mixed workforces are much more desirable for both men and women than perforce groups of the same gender are. I and many men abhor men working only in men-only-groups. Contact with many men is better for women too than it is to only have contact with other women, the husband, family men, neighbor men and commercial shop-men.
And Narcole, don't you worry that the many unmarried men segregated from women have a bigger tendency towards homosexual relations? This being something you don't want to stimulate.
//"Which progress is better? From worse to bad…or from worse to good…or from worse to better. Choose."//
None of the above. I think the first step is the hardest; it is to search for the good among the bad, to redefine the situation we are in as positive, only minimal so, while accepting all the bad things around it. Often this means just making the bad things bearable for the moment, no more.
This was about step 1: the bad-good-transition. Redefining what we do NOT want into what we DO WANT.
But most people just want to stop, eradicate the bad.
But when the bad things and the minimal positive things are identified, everything becomes easier, then we can proceed on the good-better-line with step 2, expanding and growing the good things with our attention and efforts.
Segregated? *shakes head* tsk tsk. I just got this new 3lm recently. About wifes rights and duties and husbands too. Well there some that we all already know. But i found out there some that actually the husbands tasks but being done by wife, and there some that actually the wifes tasks, but done by husband. And we all think that its the opposites tasks, even in religion. But actually, thats not from religion but culture or even infidels influence, which we all think its normal for a wife to do those, and normal for a husband to do those. It becomes the reasons why other conflicts in marriage created without being aware whats the main cause. And actually such conflicts could be prevented or avoided with ways we nowalso thought its the opposites tasks. What you're being worried about already have the solutions in religion, its just you didnt know yet. now list the problems you find in marriage where women stay at home, one by one.
Which progress is better? From worse to bad…or from worse to good…or from worse to better. Choose.
@Demsci,
I think she summed it up rather well here: "You know, super beautiful expensive women do need burqa"
To her a woman could be 'expensive' just like any other commodity. I guess now you would appreciate what you are dealing with.
Hats up Demsci ,really a nice and profound reply !!!!
Hey, thanks, Beautiful! Yes, there is WORKING AT HOME NOW, in my city and country also. You describe a fine role for women there. Well thought out. And maybe you are on to something I am not on to.
But I am in favor of as much integration as possible, and against any segregation.
But, if women THEMSELVES prefer a segregated lifestyle and are contributors by raising children and working at home, OK. And so YOU ALLOW the outgoing women then.
That is a great pity though; the men at the office enjoy, love, adore and need women around them, it makes them function much better and willing to go to work much more. Women in groups, without men, also will miss men and be sick much more often.
Let men and women be different, but let them complement each other in each others company, not segregated!
Basically, it seems, you want cohabitation between the two, but, DAMNED IT, LIMITED to the marriage! As if the woman is possession of the man, Bah!
And any way, in my view people will live ever longer, and the average two children only take perhaps 25 years of life to raise, they are not enough reason to segregate.
//" I even doubt you could reach zero.'//
The "you" here should be about mankind as a whole, and then countries, then smaller entities/ groups, not me only.
Progress should be well defined and measured. Starting points and temporary endpoints should be stated. Goals should be SMART (Specific Measurable Activating Realistic Timebound).
If people do not believe in progress in the past 5500 years for these groups, and here I mean overall progress, so with the positive and the negative both well measured and totalized,
then people would be MAD to expect to their efforts to bring future progress, also with positive and negative totalized. If people do not believe any more more in progress in totality, they logically become demoralized and lethargic. What are you? unbelieving in progress, yet mad enough to still try to achieve it? Or unbelieving in progress and lethargic?
I do believe in progress for mankind and subgroups of it, after the totalized measure of the negative and the positive, and this gives me optimism, hope and pleasurable anticipation and I encourage me and others to stay active.
How far the progress you could make? If -50 is more positive than -100, you think -50 is positive? *rolls eyes* how much progress you could make to positivity? I even doubt you could reach zero.
Not all the time like prison. And not become burden. A womans office should be at home, taking care of kids with all her best and also house and husband. Teaching, supporting and helping kids and husband. Also motivate them. And who say they cant get income? They can from doing those from husbands income, also theres way for passive income too. Do you know managers job? Managers job is more from mind and planning strategies. And the employes who follow and do the plans. Women still can change the world eventhough from houses. Read history how much chaos created in this world by womens influence indirectly from behind. Women is pillar of a nation. Its the womens job to shape the children and the husbands to live and work in society best. If women are outside, then who will do this job?? You cant deny how miserable lives of many people whose women outside. Morally and emotionally. If women are outside too like men, then whats the use of creating different gender? Think. Differences genders are made to complete each others. Each has its own task and place. and about burqa, its a choice, not order. Same like naked people on the street, no one forcing them to get naked. So why are you forcinggpeople who dont bother you? You know, super beautiful expensive women do need burqa 😉
I may worship worm in pigs-shit .but will never worship Allah and Yahweh (evil creatures).
Mr sanatandharma86, I'm really glad to know an animal lover like you but that doesn't mean that you have to worship them and even those flies that feed on dung, like a god.
@Agracean,
God is energy field. In other words, God is Law, Law is Energy, Energy is Consciousness, Consciousness is Love, Love is God. This cycle is Godhood.
Unlike Semetic religions teach, who or what we worship doesn't matter to God. His infinite love encompasses everyone and everything unconditionally for eternity.
So we need not worry about worship and try to love our fellow beings.
@Dear Agracean
Yes, I feed Monkey and bull also and love with them very much. I can not tolerate if anybody hurts them. Hinduism teaches us to love with these animals. My mother goes to feed ant also one time in a month.
________Do you worship flies too___
Butterfly:
In Indian philosophies, the life-cycle of the butterfly is held up to explain the importance of meditation. Just as the egg becomes a caterpillar that metamorphose into a beautiful butterfly after spending time in the cocoon, human beings must practice meditation to metamorphose from mere mortals into enlightened people.
Sarus Crane:
The bird is venerated in the northern parts of India and is believed to symbolize marital bliss in India. The bird is also regarded as a good omen for crops in India. People encourage the bird to nest in their fields.
Legend has it that Sage Valmiki cursed a hunter for killing a Sarus crane. It is believed that the incident inspired the sage to write the epic Ramayana.
Frog:
The frog is a symbol of reincarnation, for it goes through several forms from eggs to the tadpole breathing through its gills to the air-breathing adult. It is likened to the many forms a soul may be born in.
There is an entire philosophic treatise, the Mandukya Upanishad, which explains the meaning of the sound AUM as three stages of consciousness: A is the state of wakefulness, U of dreams and M of deep sleep.
Dear list is lengthy if you wish I can write them also.
Mr sanatandharma86, how do you worship Kamadhenu, your cow god or Ganesha, your elephant god? Besides these two creatures, please tell me what other animals do you worship? Do you worship flies too?
@Agracean
_____________what do you understand about worship_____________
Wish for the all same as you want for yourself.
Worship means what Jesus did. Jesus all acts were worship of God.
In other words worship is as Jesus also followed them
According to the sages, righteous living or life on a dharmic path has four aspects: austerity (tap), purity (shauch), compassion (daya) and truthfulness (satya); and adharmic or unrighteous life has three vices: pride (ahankar), contact (sangh), and intoxication (madya). The essence of dharma lies in possessing a certain ability, power and spiritual strength. The strength of being dharmic also lies in the unique combination of spiritual brilliance and physical prowess.
The 10 Rules of Dharma
Manusmriti written by the ancient sage Manu, prescribes 10 essential rules for the observance of dharma: Patience (dhriti), forgiveness (kshama), piety or self control (dama), honesty (asteya), sanctity (shauch), control of senses (indraiya-nigrah), reason (dhi), knowledge or learning (vidya), truthfulness (satya) and absence of anger (krodha). Manu further writes, "Non-violence, truth, non-coveting, purity of body and mind, control of senses are the essence of dharma". Therefore dharmic laws govern not only the individual but all in society.
The Purpose of Dharma:
The purpose of dharma is not only to attain a union of the soul with the supreme reality, it also suggests a code of conduct that is intended to secure both worldly joys and supreme happiness. Rishi Kanda has defined dharma in Vaisesika as "that confers worldly joys and leads to supreme happiness". Hinduism is the religion that suggests methods for the attainment of the highest ideal and eternal bliss here and now on earth and not somewhere in heaven. For example, it endorses the idea that it is one's dharma to marry, raise a family and provide for that family in whatever way is necessary. The practice of dharma gives an experience of peace, joy, strength and tranquillity within one's self and makes life disciplined.
You decide to let what people decide? Thats not what im questioning. Just cos everyone decide what god they want to choose, does it mean the real god's religion is related to nation any of people who decide what god they want?
//"Oh so you use "no perfection but only progress that counts" as excuse for you to do bad in the present and still feel good about it cos you think the past was worse?"//
I suppose it is often used as an excuse and I am sorry about that. But realizing it, we can make progress on that too!
But it is so much more. If there IS progress, or Ihsan, then that gives many of us hope and motivation to try to progress more, since it worked in the past. This hope and motivation sustains me a lot.
And this is the period of Moore's law. Every 18 months the capacity of computers doubles. And with it unbelievable possibilities for progress come into view, very fast! There is exponential, not just linear growth.
//'So? Whats the relation with real god?"// We decided to let the people decide for themselves who the real God is. Or to live without God. We have Freedom religion, congregation, speech. Also proselytizing is allowed.
God has ample scope to operate and guide people in democracies. People can seek, study, honour and obey their "real God" to their heart's content. Just not force others do it.
//"So, if some women want to stay at home protecting themselves from rapists, and wear burqa cos they want themselves, is there democracy for them to do that?"//
Stay at home? All the time? All life? Never working? But that effects the economy (and all of us) in a bad way. Doing that, deliberately!, makes a woman a deliberate liability, a burden on society, only consuming but not producing (much). Then why invest in girls when they won't produce (much) later in life? Still, it is only NOT ENCOURAGED, but NOT PROHIBITED either.
Burqa's on the street? No, people should present their faces, this is majority's view and presenting one's face cannot hurt a person.
//"Why are you forcing people who wanna be where they wanna be and do what they wanna do as long as not bother others?"//
If they really not bother others? So also not just living on taxpayer's money while doing it, and also not supporting intolerant people, then we in democracy are tolerant to all tolerant people. That 's the beauty and power of Democracy. Who told you otherwise?
//"You forgot that this seems good only for you now. You dont see earth and next generations future."//
In Democracy there is also Greenpeace, against the oil companies! Precisely the openness of Democracy allows thinkng humans to protest and urge us to prepare better for the future.
//"You cant defend something imperfect and temporary"// And you can't defend a system, policy and behavior that is lethargic, inactive, only thinking of direct imperatives only. And you won't.
But you also cannot present a working system that is perfect and working eternally, can you? Or do you secretly or openly think there is some Islamic system like that? And if you do, does do you think there can't be democracy along with it? To let the two compete so that people can choose?
So, yes, many humans can and will defend something imperfect and temporary, if it is the best we have, and all alternatives are, by and large, worse.
//" And cant be applied to all zaman and all places, all cultures and all people."// OK, this is certainly true. So how about a compromise? We don't need Democracies in all 200 countries, we just need Democracy to be safe and not under violent attack and in danger from dictatorial countries.
Can there be peace between Democratic and Theocratic states, both accepting each other's right to exist? Can individual people in future freely migrate to one or the other? To live only in countries they can be loyal or neutral to, but NOT HOSTILE?
So? Whats the relation with real god? Its just like my statement about heart whispers granted.
So, if some women want to stay at home protecting themselves from rapists, and wear burqa cos they want themselves, is there democracy for them to do that? Laa iqraaha fi ad diin. No force in religion. Include in islam. People who embrace islam are people who practice islam voluntarily. So this is democracy too. Why are you forcing people who wanna be where they wanna be and do what they wanna do as long as not bother others?
What im saying ur democracy is still imperfect. And lots of flaws. And cant be applied to all zaman and all places, all cultures and all people. You cant defend something imperfect and temporary. You are like oil mining company who says its energy for humans life, in this present, and you compare humans in the past whos slow without such energy. But you keep promoting us to support you sucking the oil from earth. You forgot that this seems good only for you now. You dont see earth and next generations future. And prophets prophecy humans progress is getting worse and worse as time passes by, especially in morals.
Oh so you use "no perfection but only progress that counts" as excuse for you to do bad in the present and still feel good about it cos you think the past was worse? Tsk tsk. You misused the sentence. Nobody is perfect. Right. Only god is perfect. And he wants us to have good progress day after day. This is whats called ihsan in islam. A person whos today better than yesterday. And tommorow better than today. Now take a look carefully to this. This is what the progress counts means. Its for the ihsan personally. No for a person who does bad in the present and says at least other people in the past are much worse.
//"many opinions predict america to go down."//
Doom-thinkers. Smart enough people, who time and again underestimate the human (and American) capability to solve problems and progress. Malthus predicted in 1798 that mankind would face severe starvation in the 19th century. He was proved spectacularly wrong, as so many doom-thinkers were.
Judgment-day-thinkers. I spoke to Jehovah's witnesses who almost seemed glad when bad things happened, with nature, economy alike. Because it seemed to confirm, yet again, that mankind now lives in the end of days and that soon now judgement day will come. I suspect many judgement-day-believers secretly long for it and thus are too eager to spot and predict disasters.
Some of them dictatorial enemies, like the Iranian Mullahs, and many Sunni Muslim leaders, and Clerics, who hate free nations for free peoples, (free WOMEN Narcole!) without THEIR system triumphing to the exclusion of the other, freeer societal systems.
And yes, you, Narcole, might be one of those dictatorial enemies, or in alliance with some of them.
If you were, it would be much better if you simply admitted it, to all the world, like Anjem Choudary openly does admit he likes to help destroy Democracy in favor of a Shariah Caliphate.
Dear Narcole, long since I realized the things that you see, which, in part, indeed are true of my personality.
So for me it became the most important action to support the all-encompassing society, where the highest possible number of people and ideas get good chances. The system that gives the most room to see if theories are applicable in real life. So that we, and I, can compare and choose what really works, not what I, or we, ONLY THINK, OR ARE TAUGHT, that which according to us, or our teachers, should work.
You are the one who seems to advocate some kind of Islamic theory to the exclusion of other theories, because that is what happens in the dictatorial, Islamic systems, one of which you seem to advocate. If you do not support a clear alternative, then you only seem negative on Democracy. Only Democracy allows rival theories and competition and deep comparison to a high extent.
I may not check everything, or much for truth, but I want to make sure there IS plenty TO CHECK, by all humans, by supporting the democratic system, and freedom of speech.
//"So im asking, whats good with america?"// America is A. a country. B. A democracy.
There are approx. 200 countries and if you do NOT compare them with each other, as the UN and other organisations are doing, then you, by logic, might as well ask: What is good with (all) humans?
If we compare countries, we see that in all kinds of comparisons America outperforms other countries. And America has the "soft power" to attract many immigrants. Immigrants, from Islamic countries also, who thus preferred America over their country of origine.
And I know only 3 rough characterizations of societal systems; Anarchic/ tribal, then all sorts of dictatorial systems (like monarchy, communist or Islamic dictatorship) and democracies. And of those 3 the democracies seem to perform best, when we compare them.
I think we should not compare countries and societal systems with some kind of ideal country and system which only exists in theory and our minds, like you seem to do. We should only compare existing countries and systems. And if all are bad, in one's estimation, then mankind itself or God is at fault, not some particular country or system.
//"So? Who are them in the view of god?"// Well, for me, beating and oppressing wives by husbands, and wives being dependent on husbands and forced to marry and stay in abusive marriages is not good. Don't you think it is also something God is against?
But even more important, the Democratic system is the system in which mankind allows for diverse or no answers to that question. Precisely because there is so much we don't know, on how which ideas work best, it is best to let all people be free to think for themselves and present and support all kinds of ideas. But in all other systems there is either anarchy, or suppression of free thinking, talking and many extraordinary ideas.
You are not lethargic, but very active, so it is important to mention to you a Muslima who defends the rights of women, saying that it has to be done in a Democracy, Canada, because it cannot be done in patriarchalistic, dictatorial Islamic societies. Clearly in such a society YOU TOO could not study, make career, and talk in opposition to men as you do now.
//"We are here living in the present. Why keep comparing badness thats happening here with badness that happened in the past and say, this is better? "//
Thanks for that important question. It is because
A. we humans can be either active, trying to improve our lives and fate or we can be lethargic, without interest and hope for striving for a better future and I, and it seems you too, would be much rather be active than lethargic. And
B.Because it is impossible to go from zero or one to hundred in a short period.
If you think this through, then you must come to the conclusion that not perfection is possible and counts, but progress is what counts. To assess whether we humans can achieve progress, both on specific projects and overall, it is necessary to view long periods, history and compare our start with our current position and see well the progress or lack thereof.
If we then come to the conclusion that, either on specific projects, or overall, mankind was not able to achieve progress, then by logic that should make us humans lethargic. Because if we humans could not achieve any progress in 5500 years, and so know God did not help us and we were unable to progress ourselves, why would we try now and hope now? I say, if no past progress, then no trying to improve and hoping anymore. It is the same with prayers, why do it, when it yields no results?
But either God did help us or we humans did have success with our projects and overall, because we can see great progress in our history, I think.
Its just your feeling dear. You dont know truth, cos you're not dead yet. Feeling. *pokes*
Lol, i wanna know whether u know what madrasa is
Im not saying this bcos of racist, or anything, many opinions predict america to go down. In fact it is. This world is round. If you know what it means.
Theres recently some festival here, science art and religion festival. And the major said these are important to be held together becose science art and religion is a perfect mix. Just imagine theres a science man but knows no art. Theres an artist but doesnt know science. Theres a science man but has no religion. Theres a religious man but doesnt know science. Science art and religion are perfect combination to shape a better person. So im asking, whats good with america? America is only good with one or two fields, but it doesnt have perfect combination to shape perfection. Just go and pick any random american, and pick one person who has religion with perfect mix with other fields. See, the random american isnt good enough.
So? Who are them in the view of god? Is it important to mention them? People talk as they like, but that wont change hakikat.
We are here living in the present. Why keep comparing badness thats happening here with badness that happened in the past and say, this is better? You know that better is comparative form of 'good'. We are talking about badness here in the present. Badness is from 'bad'. But you're trying to make it look good by looking in the past and see the worse.
You are defending democracy blindly in naive way. Idk whether ur brainwashed or you only sit and talk with democrates, but not see the reality in front of your eyes. You are like a pupil in the class, who get theories from teacher and your eyes sparkling with the theories you just learned as you first knowledge. But you dont really see whether those theories applicable in real life. You believe in statistics, and tv reports. You dont live in real life and check all theories to everyone and every place yourself. You just sit in the corner from one angle, for best shot. Thats all i have to say. Maybe you sit there cos ur too afraid to go to the streets and take risks for checking out. You stay there for safe zone too.
Look, when will people understand – they are nice people. They just don't like pork sausages. Or us.
Please make a distinction between God, (or Allah), which is exactly the same God for everybody, and religion. Man has made up religions to suit himself, and pretending that it was their own Gods religion. Jesus's religion Christianity was invented 300 years after Jesus died, to create a power structure to control people. (Jesus Christ was actually a Jew). There is no doubt in my mind, that Islam was created as way to subjugate, and dominate, both believers, so they could be controlled, but especially non-believers, so they could be eliminated, made to be slaves, and totally subjugated, and to feel terrorised and humiliated. Islam is 30% religious, which deals with believers, and 70% political, which deals with non-believers. If you care to read about the so called Prophet Mohammed, you will wonder why Muslim men revere him, and try to live like him. Teachings generally avoid the 'evil' Mohammed – however that side is amply spoken about in the so-called religious texts, so as to allow an Islamic Jihad for expansion. (Qutb and his writings highlight these political ideologies, inherent in the Koran.)
For the record, I had an Out of body experience, when I was 8 years old or so. I had absolutely no idea what was happening. I was a bit scared but felt safe. So I had absolutely no ideas about an OBE. I can remember what happened vividly, and I wasn't close to death. In fact, it all sounds rather mundane. I was asleep, and my mother came into my room, though of course I didn't know that. What I did know, was that I felt really disturbed, perhaps on an subconscious level. The next thing I knew I was somehow seeing someone pulling my blankets around. Except I was watching from above. I couldn't really identify my mother, except I figured out it had to be her. When I asked her about it the next day, she said, I was fast asleep, but my blankets were falling off, and I seemed to be holding tightly onto them. If anyone asks, I didn't make this story up afterwards, I was too young.
I was young enough to be curious about this, but never mentioned it to anyone – mostly because I had no idea what it was about. I think it just felt natural, and that was the end of it. Fairly mundane really.
@ narcole (72 fake virgins),
If u do not know what a MADrassa is, then u are a fake muslim living in the West. Even in America n Europe there are MADrassas.
//"How many civilized nations in the past destroyed and got destroyed already?"// Civilization is around # 5500 years and many nations got destroyed or overrun.
But let Muslims at least not try and wish America to go down. It promises to leave them free and it also "promises" great progress, also to them. I know well it is not perfect and I also know about the many Conspiracy Theories, for instance about the secret influence of the Illuminati. But they are mostly not true, as you can find out, while having fun at the same time, when you examine the website that debunk them, then you see how weak they are in comparison with more natural theories about same issues.
More important: Can Muslims win this unnecessary and by now unwinnable futile war against America and Democracy? If they can't win, do they think helping China and Russia is going to do them much more good?
I used to think Muslims get more babies on average than Democratic people, and because of THAT a danger, but I am informed that all around the world birthrates are falling like stones. Or will be, once child mortality is strongly reduced, and women emancipation and freedom get better.
http://www.mattridley.co.uk/blog/falling-populati…
If you can't beat the Americans, join them!
And they don't need criticism from the outside, they got plenty from the inside. Unlike China, Russia and the Islamic states.
//"So dont be friends with any of zhalim people, cos no goodness will be gained from zhalim people."//
Link:  ;http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/2654517263001
"Raheel Raza, president of Muslims Facing Tomorrow, speaks with Brian Lilley about the Tories announcing funding to fight honour killings."
She said: "The problem with honour killings comes from a mindset, and this mindset cannot be changed inside patriarchal societies, run by Mullahs. But this mindset CAN be changed inside democratic countries among Muslims. ". "Women are told their rights and there are problems in Islamic community, divorce among Muslims is rising very much".
Raheel Raza says some wonderful but risky things here. And she is clearly both Muslim and in favor of the Democratic system.
Thanks for great long reply. You think and perhaps are right that Democratic people truly don't understand Islam and Muslims. But you yourself do not understand some vitally important principles of Democratic people (the ones that think and have principles). That of self-criticism, necessity of defensive violence in response, learned the hard way against Hitler and the Soviet Union.
Most Democratic people wouldn't give a damn about Islam, if they did not perceive a danger, threat from it, or from a part of the Muslims. Their motive is defense, not interest in Islam itself (that's why most don't study Islam too deep).
As I said often, they mostly merely ECHO the interpretations of Muslim leaders and clerics(schools) themselves. It is amply shown to them by MEMRI-TV and Islam-experts who are monitoring Muslims all around the world very well.
In fact it is the Muslim people who have a division, because there are many who give ample real rational reasons for fear among their infidel fellow humans, esp. in Islamic countries. and who openly oppose democracy in a violent way. And then there are those who deny Islam's detrimental influence on them.
You are right, good distinction among Muslims is highly desirable, but hard to establish. Why don't Muslims try Zuhdi Jasser or Irshad Manji and such more???
But Muslims like you should also distinguish:
between defensive proportionate violence from Democracies and very rare offensive, oppressing ruthless violence. You should see and appreciate that freedom of speech already gives room for EXCESSIVE criticism and control of violent policies WITHIN democracies, by infidels. And that this system already leads to more peace and less violence.
Example; Vietnam was much worse than Iraq in terms of ruthless war. And drones are far more precise and proportionate than plane-bombings, missiles and boots on the ground. Statistics show that the US Army both kills less innocents and loses less killed soldiers through time.
//"So? Was america this good before? Where are all good nations in the past? Btw whats good with america? In what way? Is it related to religion?"//
What is good with America: It's ordinary people are more free, relative to people under dictatorships and people in the past. America allows for much innovative thinking and progress, so is better equipped for development as opposed to stagnation. So America gives us perspective and hope for progress.
Islamic theocratic, dictatorial countries seem to think they already have the best way of organising society, Islam, and force people do things, resisting and restricting alternative thinking and behaving patterns too much, they also prohibit and stifle too much. You too would have been much earlier stifled and prohibited in your free speech and development.
And along with America's great potential for innovation and progress, America still offers room for all kinds of variations in religion, thinking, living. Americans only think they got the best system precisely because they feel that no specific religion is the best, or the only worthwhile, and no religion or lifestyle should get preferential treatment above others.
So: Democrats cannot exist (much) under Muslim Theocrats (and YOU can't either) but Muslims can exist fine under Democrats.
//"Do you know two faces means munafiq or hypocrite?"//
This charge is about the distrust of Muslims of Western policies. But think about it. As soon as Muslims recognize the right of the Democratic people to DEFEND themselves they see that the Democratic people are tolerant to tolerant people and intolerant to intolerant people, those wishing to replace Democracy with theocratic tyranny. Otherwise Democratic people would be foolishly suicidal and Democracies could get lost (as it was lost against Hitler in 1933).
But the war has to be only defensive, and then PROPORTIONATE and not RUTHLESS. It is only a MUST, not a desire, a means of expansion any more, so it is not hypocritical. The desire is that there is freedom, democracy and progress for all mankind. Some (theocratic) dictatorships may exist, but in minority worldwide. The Democratic Nations must be independent and well protected from them. Then let us see, who overall perform better, for population as a whole, the Democracies or the dictatorships? I think the UN and other statistics indicate the Democracies will perform better. But only if they defend themselves.
And what is madrasa?
YES, They have studied the books under close supervision in the MADrassas and they became the world best suicide bombers because they were enticed with picture of the 72 (phantom) virgins. Thousands of Muslims n innocent people had died because of them. The spirits of these suicide bombers were pushed down to hell by their victims' spirits. Are u happy now?
U cannot see a clear picture of life because your limited knowledge came only from one source i.e. from the 7th century Arabian desert.
Lolol ur language skills suck, its just smarter readers who still could understand, since there research about smart peoples brain who still could understand messed up words. The problem in here is you, you just speak/write, while language skills are speaking, listening with comprehending, writing and reading. If people reply you, thats bcos people got listening with comprehending and reading skills. that shows more points for readers iq. but you, dnt have these skills. And i feel so sorry for you. And we are not talking about religion yet 🙂 capisce? No? Its okay. I know a science man talking to a homeless beggar analogy suits this 😉 Dont force urself. keep practicing.
Do you know two faces means munafiq or hypocrite?
To me, both americans and the terrorists are the same. And im not on any side of zhalim people. If im here on infidels site thats cos i think that i have more capability to communicate with infidels. Because i understand the way infidels think and know better how to communicate with them. Since little i already had played with american infidel kids. And we got no problems with race nor religion. But experiences i got from my discussions with astrayed moslems so hard. Bcos they think they know more about islam, and use qurans verses as excuse, which the meanings are far from the real meanings. And these then used by infidels as excuse to tarnish quran with their dhal meanings. The terrorists are from several types of 'moslems'. Most are from moslems family, and their islamic knowledge very poor, but they have great passion to apply. Some joined cos got misled by recruiters who saw this passion, some joined cos of money, some joined bcos of emo and suicidal, some are innocents who dont do anything wrong but used as shelter. And these innocents dont know what they are doing. Some also munafiqin, that only god knows what they are really up to. They are minority but eventhough a few their influence is poisonus. They could be double agents who disguise to collect informations as intelligents, also to ruin from inside with makar or fitnah. And they get hired by the opponents. We can clearly see who deserve to be hated here and who dont. Problem is, how to save the ones with passion but got fooled cos of poor knowledge, how not to hurt the ignorant innocents, and how to destroy the munafiqin and stubborn dhallin. Cos theres different between someone whos astrayed but doesnt know and not aware hes astrayed, but doesnt wanna be astrayed, with someone whos astrayed but he knows and aware hes astrayed and careless for his selfish sakes. We are told in islam to give a chance to these ignorants by guiding them. And after that effort, if they accept, they may come back to us, but if they reject and chose to stay astrayed, then we may punish them. And to filter them, we need to acknowledge them well from their daylife in practicing islam. Filtering them isnt an easy task that can be done by anyone. It needs high knowledge in islam. Ofcourse not many people have high knowledge in islam. But many act as if they do. For examples infidels on alisina org. Its so funny seeing some guys bringing certain verses, and wrote translations that obviously far from real meanings in high knowledge of real 3ulama, but then some infidels come and praise. And they all think thats what we've been taught about. But they still refuse to learn original arabic fus7a until the root. Dont you think that shallow? Islam came from ancient original arabic fus7a, but now there foreigners who dont understand original ancient arabic, nor fus7a, the root, even the english itself, claim that they know islam well? How come? Please explain to me, how come people who never got any original source claim they know it well? They learn islam from rumors? And think, how come islam started reaching glory and spread widely from centuries ago? Do you think all moslems did what the terrorists do? If so, then islam would have already gone since long time ago, cos people at that time also got brains. This terrorists organization is created as weapon to destroy islam from inside. Have u ever heard that to destroy enemies by making them friends? This is what the terrorists doing. They are acting that moslems are their friends, and infidels are their enemies. They know that people will revenge their bad deeds to all of them, include the innocent friends. So dont be friends with any of zhalim people, cos no goodness will be gained from zhalim people. In here we notice that us army and the terrorists are zhalim, im not friends with zhalim people. But im friends with the innocents and peace lovers. Only 3lm that can save us. Not blood.
So? Was america this good before? Where are all good nations in the past? Btw whats good with america? In what way? Is it related to religion? How many civilized nations in the past destroyed and got destroyed already? Didnt you learn from history? It is no excuse to judge wrong as right, and right as wrong though.
is site ne hinduan ki nind kharab kar rakhi hai…
And why Hindus are dumb, this is a good example but in Hindi. I need a transaltor for this group, can anyone help:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%A8…
"Dear, dont force urself. you dont understand any word."
Dear Sister Narcole as per your thinking this prove that Islam teach don't effort to learn while you are unable but believe it blindly.
"Keep bringing new questions to runaway."
I'm not running away, I'm here and ask me I'll give you answer as per my knowledge but not make a lie like your Muhammad and Allah I'm perfect in my knowledge and wisdom. If Allah is perfect and his book is the best then there should be a errorless book but this book is full of error.
"You even cant digest "Allah didnt come from anything", and " a she camel as sign from Allah" which any sane person, religious or atheists who have brains wouldnt interpret those as " Allah came from nothing" and " She camel equals to Allah". this is not about religion yet, this is about understanding grammar."
First this is hard to you not for me to digest because If I was wrong, so you can give the answer he came from ………………. Place. But it is you who don't know where he came from but believe on the word of a Mu-hum-mad and also outpouring yourself as you suffering hysteria and misleading here even if slave of Prophet also confused to read you comments, who also read Quran and till now he is faithful to Mu-hum-mad not Allah like you. This is true any sane person, religious or atheists who have bring will say Allah came from nothing if he read your comments that was provided by yourself. And the matter of my Grammatical knowledge if my grammatical knowledge is bad then it will also affect my writing and you & others member will not understand what I'm asking and what I'm expressing. But all are understating even if you also and some times replied and sometime you unable and have not answer to those question you cry your grammar is poor or you are unable to understand any word.
"So you better brush up ur language skills first before you come here. Or get dolphin therapy. "
And my suggestion for yourself rub your eyes, see the all around and feel better, joy life, help people, forget the difference between believers & Non-believers. And feel what changing did you get?
No not haram, Camelot. You know the Camel lot.
@narcole1919721,
Problem with you is that you don't make sense with whatever you say. We keep on asking you question to show you the light of truth, but you skip them with illogical ranting of unrelated topics.
/"See you are using that excuse again, "just cos they do bad, why cant we do bad too for revenge?""//
My answer is that the Western democratic governments have a TWO-way-approach against terrorism. Yes, they do FIGHT it, but they also have positive policies, the ones you would like and allow. You would forbid even all the defensive fighting but I would allow the defensive fighting, proportionate, together with all peaceful policies the Western governments are committed to.
//"But in fact ur a racist. You just care about innocent westerns. You dont care about innocent easterns. You sacrifice the innocent easterns to protect ur innocent westerns. "//
It may very seem that way to you, but I can give you an answer. If I am on the American side, I also hold the American GOVERNMENT (and all American leaders) accountable. I think America has a good responsible government, and that Democracy, although very imperfect, has thrown up this good (enough) government.
But there are # 200 countries in the world. America is now still by far the most powerful nation, but it is understood it has no government power over the other countries. And so no power to prosecute terrorist organisations in other nations, protected or allowed by these other nations.
And you and Muslims prefer it that America has only limited power, if anything you want to limit it much more and give Muslims or even China-Russia more power.
But that means that the American government and military cannot be held accountable for the protection of "all innocents", they can only protect their own innocents and soldiers.
They can only choose between "proportionate war" and "all-out-ruthless war-as-long-as-there-IS-war". And they definitely, especially after 1991, choose the former, NOT the latter (as Hitler did).
But you do not even condone from them a "proportionate war", a war, that is NOT fought against their own likes, the democrats, but against those who are much less scrupulous, those who would make much more victims, if they had the power.
Democracies are not suicidal, they must first preserve and yes expand themselves. With your way, the ruthless people will win and democracies will be conquered or blocked. And innocent people like you will be killed or jailed MUCH more. Your way al the way makes the way of the ruthless people irresistible to them. Because with violence they then can win "the world".
//'' We cant sacrifice innocents to stop badness. It may stop awhile, but the badness will still come like boomerang to each other. If others do wrong, we shouldnt do wrong. We should do goodness instead."//
Yes, that is great, I really think so. But you do agree that there are 2 sides. And you are on the Islamic side and I on the American side. Now the situation seems to be that, yes, the Americans, allowing free speech and huge individuality and therefore enormous division among themselves also and even mostly criticize themselves a lot too, as you must have seen me, Ali Sina and others do here.
How about the Muslim side? And you? See, in our conversation you do admit terrorists are bad, but you too place blame much more on the American side than on the Muslim side. But you should, like the Americans, place blame on your own side.
Why? Because it is important that you use not double but single standards. And that you acknowledge that not only Americans, but also Muslims can change.
Because if you do criticize the Americans the way you and Muslims do, you acknowledge that the Americans are adult, sane humans and can change. Because you would not bother to blame and try to correct children, crazies and animals.
So why do you not place blame, try to correct the Muslim side as much as the American side.
When you do that, then automatically you become more mildly towards the American side and more stern towards the Muslim side.
And you are very much a product of the "American" side judging by the free and critical way you argue with us. Maybe you are even more "American" than you are Muslim.
Dear, dont force urself. you dont understand any word. Keep bringing new questions to runaway. You even cant digest "Allah didnt come from anything", and " a she camel as sign from Allah" which any sane person, religious or atheists who have brains wouldnt interpret those as " Allah came from nothing" and " She camel equals to Allah". this is not about religion yet, this is about understanding grammar. And u have proved you dont have ability to understand grammar. So you better brush up ur language skills first before you come here. Or get dolphin therapy.
See you are using that excuse again, "just cos they do bad, why cant we do bad too for revenge?" The terrorists are bad, everybody knows that. But the armys job is to protect innocent humans. Not to protect certain innocents us citizens only. Every innocent person in this world has the right to be protected. Now u keep preaching about love in humanity. But in fact ur a racist. You just care about innocent westerns. You dont care about innocent easterns. You sacrifice the innocent easterns to protect ur innocent westerns. You seek excuse that ur doing this to protect the innocent westerns and get innocent westerns support. Whats the difference between u and the terrorists then? Its like written in sinas article, everyone is a believer also a sceptic. You say the terrorists do bad, you do bad too! Dont you think the terrorists have lame excuse to get support too? What is wrong is wrong. What is innocent is innocent. If u accuse the moslem innocents supporting the terrorists by not doing much thing to stop them, then what shud we accuse innocent westerns that supporting you killing innocent easterns? You see, this principal of yours is flawed. We cant sacrifice innocents to stop badness. It may stop awhile, but the badness will still come like boomerang to each other. If others do wrong, we shouldnt do wrong. We should do goodness instead. Such principal is often heard from wise ones.
Dear Sister Narcole,
I've not got your reply till now from where did you get this story, but again I'm giving you reference from Quran about Muhammad read Surah 18:110 Qul innama ana basharun mithlukum yooha ilayya annama ilahukum ilahun wahidun faman kana yarjoo liqaa rabbihi falyaAAmal AAamalan salihan wala yushrik biAAibadati rabbihi ahadan
Say: I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your God is only One God. And whoever hopeth for the meeting with his Lord, let him do righteous work, and make none sharer of the worship due unto his Lord.
41:6 Qul innama ana basharun mithlukum yooha ilayya annama ilahukum ilahun wahidun faistaqeemoo ilayhi waistaghfiroohu wawaylun lilmushrikeena
Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you. It is inspired in me that your God is One God, therefor take the straight path unto Him and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe unto the idolaters,
And Again read Surah 7:12 Qala ma manaAAaka alla tasjuda ith amartuka qala ana khayrun minhu khalaqtanee min narin wakhalaqtahu min teenin
He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud. 15:26 Walaqad khalaqna alinsana min salsalin min hamain masnoonin
Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,
15:27 Waaljanna khalaqnahu min qablu min nari alssamoomi
while before him We had created Jinn from smokeless fire.
55:14 Khalaqa alinsana min salsalin kaalfakhkhari
He created man from sounding clay like unto pottery.
55:15 Wakhalaqa aljanna min marijin min narin
And the Jinn did He create of smokeless fire.
38:71Ith qala rabbuka lilmalaikati innee khaliqun basharan min teenin
Behold when your Rabb said to the angels: "I am about to create a man from clay:
Note: basharun means a man here she will say basharan is used so I'm also giving another Surah 23:24Faqala almalao allatheena kafaroo min qawmihi ma hatha illa basharun mithlukum yureedu an yatafaddala AAalaykum walaw shaa Allahu laanzala mala-ikatan ma samiAAna bihatha fee aba-ina al-awwaleena
The chiefs of the Unbelievers among his people said: "He is no more than a man like yourselves: his wish is to assert his superiority over you: if Allah had wished (to send messengers), He could have sent down angels; never did we hear such a thing (as he says), among our ancestors of old." here basharun also used for a man.
What do you say about your beloved prophet was he A Jinn or A Man? And did you understand Quran completely or only read?
//"You cant sacrifice innocents lives for nothing. For ur dream world. That dream world cant be created from dirty way."//
I do understand but you simply won't acknowledge that there are very bad bully's among humans, who will use violence to get power and rich rewards, if they know the other humans won't resist. Or only resist when they do not harm innocents around the bullies. But not when one dead baby may result when the bullies are fought by protectors. If that were so, the bullies simply would collect some babies and use them as protection.
You protest against the American Bully, the top dog, but you don't realize that the enemies it fights may well be much worse. Because the American Bully, although very imperfect, is well controlled, tamed, and restraining those who will certainly use violence against innocents if that gives them power and riches.
//'The angels thought creating humans was a bad decision, cos what humans would tend to do, is to fight. To kill. Humans always have lame excuses to kill. They will always find excuse to kill"//
Using the analogy: The angels were right about human nature and God was right that we can fight our killing tendency.
It seems you have as radical a peaceful attitude as I observed the Jehovah's witnesses had; they would not have fought against Hitler, even when they knew he would kill so many if he won, which he couldn't do when he was fought and defeated. So fighting and defeating was clearly the lesser of two evils. especially in the long run. The West German democratic government was much better for the "innocents".
I agree about changing yourself first, trying everything peaceful to solve wars, controversies, but, as Barack Obama explained, even after all that, enemies will still threathen you, your loved ones, innocents and your very tolerance.
And the Jehovah's witnesses would still be against fighting back as a last resource. If we were all like that and evil men knew this it would in no time motivate them to try and violently conquer and reap huge rewards, thus their attitude INCREASES the likelyhood of violence and oppression.
Well said Demsci !!!
The rest of what you write I mostly agree with. I hope you choose good real Moslim leaders, and do it democratically, so that you can replace them when they fail or cheat. Yes, try to differ in leaders and tell us their true intentions, even if it is against democracy. We can go from there. Right education must be broad education, not only religious education, and that not restricted to only one religion.
//"Its not u.s armys task."// US Army's task is protection of Americans,
and their own soldiers who are targeted and killed by terrorists, in Afghanistan, who then run to Pakistan and hide among innocent population. Whose leaders apparently let them do that.
You expect that Islamic Talibans can hurt BEAR CUBS and then that the mother bear won't respond? You COMPLAIN when the BEAR MOTHER strikes back furiously?
This has always been a discussion about who is responsible for what. But it seems clear to me that the US army will not strike Talibans along with the innocents they hide amongst, when those Taliban first cease and desist. But if the Americans cease and desist, the Taliban will try to re-establish their Theocratic state. And such a state kills much more than the Democratic USA. Iran executes on average per year 300 to 400 prisoners, or more, but the USA only executes 30 prisoners per year. You do the math which is the better course; action or inaction.
//"If the robbers disguising among innocents, then the innocents have to catch the robbers?"//
We are in agreement that "criminals" constantly disguise as and frame innocents. Now both police and army exist for protection of the civilians of their country. And yes, they must do their utmost to distinguish criminals from innocents and punish the one and spare the other.
But Democratic governments CAN ask for reasonable cooperation from innocents. Do you think Governments must be suicidal and not respond to threats? Do you think all these innocents have zero responsibility?
And there is constant communication between government-police-army and innocents.Non-responding or responding with hostility by innocent Muslims can make them seem untrustworthy, when the criminals use Islam as motivation and justification, using high political and religious leaders too, and when they move and hide among the Muslim population.
Muslims as a group cannot claim to be ignorant of a certain hostile attitude to democratic governments-police-army of many of their own. Maybe many individuals can, but not the entire group. And this goes for Muslim groups and their political and religious leaders in Islamic countries too.
Inaction and refusal to make and broadcast clear choices makes Muslims seem to not first and foremost loyal to the democratic system, but first and foremost loyal to theocratic intolerant government. Their responsibility is to make clear choices, when the Democratic governments-police-armies suspect them of helping ISLAMIC criminals, with very good reason, namely common Islam-belief and loyalty.
Cos ur killing the innocent moslems. Blame ur selves for spreading the hatred toward the bad ones and receive revenge from the hated bad ones. and blame urselves for not helping the innocent moslems to spread peace. U kill them instead. Thanks.
Cos you never see quran. You think its quran, but its not quran. Ur astrayed.
Try to find out? Newby. I already pointed out why this happened. Never learn book alone. Every learning must be under supervision.
Its not u.s armys task. Its the real moslems task, to unite them. to straighten their way. And that task should be done from real moslem leaders. So, whats our task? To choose the right real moslem leaders. And support them. But before that we have to be able to recognize and to differ them from fake or astrayed leaders. we all must have knowledge to differ for choosing. So its all back to education again. all people must get right education about right things in right way. All people. first we have to be able to understand, what is right education of right things in right way.
If the robbers disguising among innocents, then the innocents have to catch the robbers? Sure. Why dont fire the security guys and replace with the innocents instead?
Have you seen how many rich people try so hard not getting robbed by setting lots of expensive security stuff around? Are they really protected? Do you think their money not enough to protect themselves from getting robbed. See banks. Do you think banks are dumb for not securing the money with any efforts? Whats the fact, no matter how much money the banks spend to protects themselves, the banks still could get robbed. Websites or softwares for other examples. Are the makers too dumb and weak for trying not to get hacked?
You see, you are talking just like ignorant angels when god told them, that hes gonna create human. What did they say? Why would you create makhluq that will only drop blood, fight with each other in wars??? They protested. The angels thought creating humans was a bad decision, cos what humans would tend to do, is to fight. To kill. Humans always have lame excuses to kill. They will always find excuse to kill. But what did god say? "I know better than you all". And then he created Adam and showed angels things Adam could do, more than angels could do. And then the angels apologized and prostrated as sign that god knows better than them. So, if you think that war is the only option, also by killing the innocents as excuse to decrease future murders. Then ur wrong. Humans in future still have that tendency. So what ur doing now is useless. You cant sacrifice innocents lives for nothing. For ur dream world. That dream world cant be created from dirty way. You think robinhood is a hero? He is a thief. If he wants to help people, he has to do it in honorable way. Its like washing dirty hand with urine. It will still remain dirty. For example, there some type of prostitutes who sell themselves by force, and they feed their children with their illegal money. Do you think the children will grow as holy persons from eating from haram money? None. If the prostitutes say that they are doing this by force cos they have no choice, its a lie. They do have choices. They only close their eyes from seeing the choices, and block their mind. Why did god say he knew better?? Cos he created us. He knew that we can fight our killing tendency. He knew that we can fight the evil inside of us. Instead fighting something outside of you, fight something inside yourself first. Its tendency that we have to fight. Its the tendency which is our enemy. The tendency to find excuse to fight with others. Can you kill the tendency inside of you? No blood? And if ur confused how, know that god already left clues. But be certain to get clues from the real creator.
Get it straight no one is innocent……. They are deceiving u people with holy deception. taqaiyaaa if u are a kafir no muslim is your friend every one of them wishes hell and death for u . PERIOD
The most kind of them will only be kind enough like narcole to offer u islam if u accept it than u are welcomed to the cult if reject it than hell is all what u deserve,
//"I feel so sad everytime reading or watching news about dead people, mentioned as certain number. If ur mother dead with them, for example among more than 6000 people, what will the news say, just "6000 dead" as if no different than others, as if her life only means number."//
I WILL give you a break, and so we view tragic violence in different, but I suppose both legitimate ways.
My retort is: Remember how we started out? In the past both animals and humans killed and much MORE per capita. We did not start out as peaceful creatures, we were always killers.
Second remark: when good-willing people desire to bring peace to the world, do they plan to do it forthwith or slowly and in stages? I think mankind can't go to a perfect state at once, only slowly.
In my view that makes measurable process extremely important. And per capita mankind HAS BEEN progressing in regard to murder and war; per capita it is diminishing I read.
And that in turn gives mankind the logical reason to believe in further progress, and further diminishing of murder and war. And if progress is logical possible, that gives the rational humans motivation to try to achieve ever more progress and so ever less murder and war.
But your position, however understandable, seems to be that mankind either springs at once to a perfect world, without ANY murder and war, or despair at such an eventual result, and resign to cynicism, lethargy or doom-day-thinking.
Think about it; If past progress is shown, there is rational foundation for belief in future progress. But if one plays for all or nothing and murder and war keep happening, and one does not care for progress, then how can one realistically hope for a good result? Because the ONLY good result would be zero murder and war!
Why muslims are not deporting those terrorists out of their countries in order ;to differentiate and tell rest of the world they are not like us. Ever one knows about them in any muslim country they are roaming openly and with no fear. I consider those people giving shelter to terrorists equally responsible. Mslims are not just giving sheltor to them but supporting them financially and psychologically.
Those mslims who are not terorists are always saying to those terorists that keep it up we cant fight with infidels like u cause we have faimlies and other responsibilities but what u are doing is right keep killing those jews and christians. I will support u financially and give u sheltor in my country. What the F.ool !…… U can fool everyone here but not me I had the same mentality.
At least try to find out where is the damn fault which according to u is misleading so many muslim people try to find out whats wrong if their is nothing wrong in teachings of your religion god will not punish u for thinking rationally for a good reason.. Try doing this for once !
//"If the robbers dress like innocent people, is it innocent peoples fault? Should the innocent dress like the robbers instead? No robbers want to be identified. They will always hide and disguise. Its the polices job to differ themselves! Why would the innocents get bothered by these all?"//
Yes, that argument looks good. If that really is the situation in the world at large, then indeed the "robbers" in the analogy "dress/ behave/ pose" as pious Muslims and the innocent Muslims are being "framed".
But what I always wondered at: Why can't the Innocent Muslims then not openly declare they are for the democratic system? And completely separate from theocratic Muslims? As far as Barack Obama, Daniel Pipes, I and sooooo many Westerners, high and low, are concerned the struggle against Islam is primarily a struggle between democracy and theocracy. If they really are against democracy and in favor of theocracy, let them openly admit it, and you openly admit it. That is to be respected but also that is a justification for defense of democracy against militant Islam by Western governments and military. This is then about intolerance of basically intolerant Muslims. Since if Democrats are too tolerant to intolerants they risk being conquered by them, as Hitler's success showed.
If peaceful, innocent Muslims can't bring themselves to broadcasting such a clear choice, I really think that it is their own fault if their trustworthiness and credibility becomes low among Democratic people.
No need to believe what we say but at least look with your own eyes muslms are the most barbaric , cruel , immoral and savage creatures on earth even wildest animals cant compete them…. Where is your islam I see it nowhere not in your Qraan not in your hadiths neither in its followers and stop lying to your self tooo… Cause u already know it.
I appreciate you answering me, and your questions deserve a good answer. And who knows? Perhaps some powerful arms suppliers on the American side do push for war. Long since I have considered this possibility. There may well exist behind the scenes some people who really BETRAY our democracies for money.
But I am glad you, as I, designate the terrorists as bad guys, too. And yes, obviously they are a minority among Muslims.
How to go forward then? US army will get withdrawn from Afghanistan, next year. Shall the West let the Afghans take care of themselves? The American people are in majority against new wars. For now a strike in Syria by US is postponed at least for weeks.
In Syria there is a war that is in big part between Sunnites and Shiites. It sounds cynically, but should the West now let the Muslims fight and sort it out? After all, both sides of the conflict, if we include Iran, Hezbollah, are against the West and Israel, against democracy. Even the moderate rebels seem to side with Al Qaida.
So, let the West let 2 enemies exhaust themselves against each other, let them get to hate each other, instead of US, us. And….. let them know this is how the West views the conflict. And let that Information persuade the Muslims that common enemies laugh at them, to make peace.
Would you be OK with such a situation? with the absence of interference of the US Army? I would.
Where do u live in lala land or disney world… ? cause every one over here is concerned about the real world not your imaginary self created religion which exists nowhere other than your imagination……… Their is no santa clause and islam has nothing to do with peace or humanity, Wake up!
Dont get scared everything is normal its just a PEACEFUL celebration,………. Yeah We do it this way in our peaceful country !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiE_4PxVdJ0
  ;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxhlnurX5wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2alEL-pkUls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcBFzglztBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ykGD0EqM4
  ;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVmdTDna-aM
(WARNING: EXTREME GRAPHIC VIDEOS) DON'T WATCH THEM if u have a weak heart these videos are of shia muslims doing matam or Self-inflicting Wounds on their own body from swords and knifes in islamic month of Muharram the month in when grandson of prophet named hussain was murdered by yazeed and his army ……
(BARBARITY, INSANITY AND WASTE OF HUMAN BLOOD)
DONT TRY TO DO THIS AT HOME OR SCHOOL….. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTd-YyX6uCA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e7PKXoskk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PleQx-LOyv0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e7PKXoskk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTNkSCPI6oc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHsyx2XbLU0
Please pray for yourself to stop having imaginations about something outside of you without knowledge.
Here are your imaginations : ( its the words of ur prophet) – no its not.
(not befriend kafir, harsh against kafir, kill the kafir) -no its not.
( use of brain and thinking is prohibited)-no its not.
You still deny that ur having imaginations?
I didnt imagined anyhitng, its the words of ur prophet in holy (for people like u) Quran which calls the moslem to not befriend kafir, harsh against kafir, kill the kafir. you feel that Islam will become a religion of peace if you dont acknowledge all the violence written in quran. you acknowledge or not Islam is very near to vanish from earth's face. For the same reason you are worried and not able to stop yourself from coming here which is haram for a muslim (to hear evil against muhammed and Islam). Ar rahim, Ar rehman, Akhirat, Unlimited love, Limited love …… ..its truly said that use of brain and thinking is prohibited in Islam. you are a ideal use case to demonstrate humanity the evil of Islam. I pray to god (not Allah) to help you overcome self denial mode and move into light of reason as happened with enormous no. of ex muslim's. All the best….
Another autist *rolls eyes* i was talking to demsci about us army who kill innocent people with bombs. Bombs which the usage obviously harm more that they should. the innocent victims are more than the terrorists. The terrorists only minority group with lots of bombs, even one bomb is enough to kill lots of humans. The point here is the number of the terrorists is smaller than the number of innocent victims. The terrorists did kill lots innocent people around the world. They deserve being called as bad guys. But the army kill innocents too. They deserve the same too. They are also evils. So why evils fighting evils, and dragging innocents inside, include netral ones as victims too?
No, ur mind is wrong. That is the only right one. Cos hes Ar rahman. He has love for all creatures. But Ar rahman is limited love. but to all creatures in this world. Ar rahiim is unlimitted love, for special believers, in akhirat. You are another autist, for unable to understand what others saying. You create ur own definitions to all statements given to u different than the real statements. Let me point it out. First, you wrote "someone whom HE WANTS to be killed" its obviously an autist sign. You imagined HIM, and you imagined what he wants, while you dont even know him, but you act as if you are him, for guessing what he wants. Second, "SOMEONE whom He wants TO BE KILLED." who is this SOMEONE that HE WANTS, and TO BE KILLED? If ur not an autist, u would have thought that its impossible HE WANTS that. Cos u would already have the logic, that hes Ar Rahman. If he wants to kill you, why would he feed you in dunia? Thats proof that god is merciful, also generous. so ur accusation about him, wrong. Makes you seem like an autist.
Narcole
/Get painted with same brush? If the robbers dress like innocent people, is it innocent peoples fault? Should the innocent dress like the robbers instead? No robbers want to be identified/
Yes you are right !!! Mohammed the thug did the same thing ,he hide his cunning identity under the garb of "Prophet" ( which was always the prerogative of Jesus and Buddha),thus insulted the noble term and robbed its sanctity.
"You're autist for having your own imagination about prophet."
If you will use this word for myself then what word would you use for your beloved Muhammad who used to took share 1/5 of booty for himself to the name of Allah.
You only give it as a reply on question of my experiences "when I wished something and it was filled next moment as by a sudden incident". you said in reply Why would god feed his believers and non believers? This is Ar Rahman Ar rahim.
anyway now reply again my first query as you urself proved ur first reply wrong. My query was why the hell allah was filling my wishes when i am not worshiping him ?? Why would Allah appease someone whom he wants to be killed in the hand of muslims and who should be dispatched to hell fire right after death ??
Get painted with same brush? If the robbers dress like innocent people, is it innocent peoples fault? Should the innocent dress like the robbers instead? No robbers want to be identified. They will always hide and disguise. Its the polices job to differ themselves! Why would the innocents get bothered by these all? The police men werent trained well then. Cant differ which is a robber and which is innocent.
Kill x% of all men? All men? Do u know how many all men in this world? even 0, 0000000001% of all men means zero to u. I feel so sad everytime reading or watching news about dead people, mentioned as certain number. If ur mother dead with them, for example among more than 6000 people, what will the news say, just "6000 dead" as if no different than others, as if her life only means number. Even us, you and I, are only 2 persons. 1 me, 1 you. But when we get killed for lame excuse while still innocent, what will the world say, only a number! They dont feel how it feels like! Especially, for lame excuse! killing innocents is okay as long as its for ur selfish sakes? Gimme a break!
*rolls eyes* 1 rahmat isnt for 1 person fo 1time. 1 rahmat is for all creatures in dunia, from the beginning of life until death. include love between mother and child, humans and animals, friendship, relationship, food, rizqi in dunia for All makhluq, its made from only 1 rahmat. and its Ar rahman. in akhirat, will get 99 times more than these all, for vip only. iqra2 dear.
"Hes Ar rahman toward infidels, hes Ar rahim toward mukminin. 1 rahmat is for everyone, 99 rahmat special for mukminin in akhirat. "
Read Surah 22:50 Faallatheena amanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati lahum maghfiratun warizqun kareemun
"Those who believe and work righteousness, for them is forgiveness and a sustenance most generous.22:51 Waallatheena saAAaw fee ayatina muAAajizeena ola-ika as-habu aljaheemi
"But those who strive against Our Signs, to frustrate them,- they will be Companions of the Fire."22:71 WayaAAbudoona min dooni Allahi ma lam yunazzil bihi sultanan wama laysa lahum bihi AAilmun wama lilththalimeena min naseerin
Yet they worship, besides Allah, things for which no authority has been sent down to them, and of which they have (really) no knowledge: for those that do wrong there is no helper.
Read in Aya 71 what is saying there is not helper but it is you who tell a lie and spreading falseness about Allah where is his 1 rahmat is for everyone, he is saying clearly I'm only help believers but non-believers are poor and unfortunate. And again you read surah 14:34 Waatakum min kulli ma saaltumoohu wa-in taAAuddoo niAAmata Allahi la tuhsooha inna al-insana lathaloomun kaffarun
And He giveth you of all that ye ask for. But if ye count the favours of Allah, never will ye be able to number them. Verily, man is given up to injustice and ingratitude. So how did you count? You told about myself ""ur obviously werent moslem. " Are you? If yes , how you forget Quran ? while you had claimed that you are able to answer all 6666. How shameful for you this is and how shameful that your claim that the sect is followed by yourself is the right sect of Islam.
Dear Narcole, I wrote in 1st comment 'I also had similar experiences in past when I wished something and it was filled next moment' and your reply was 'Hes Ar rahman toward infidels, hes Ar rahim toward mukminin. 1 rahmat is for everyone, 99 rahmat special for mukminin in akhirat'. May be you didnt read carefully what I wrote there it was experiences not experience, it means such incidents happen to me more then one times. Now a golden question to you. If a infieldel is permitted only for 1 rahmat i.e Ar rahim then why it happened more then one times. Allah provided wrong info, or Muhammed didnt listen carefully . In any case I am confident it will keep on happening to me countless no. of time because there is no such thing as believer or infidel. This all were the lies of muhammed to create a cult based on the hate for those who are not part of his cult. God has nothing to do with foolish concept of believer or non believer. his love is unconditional for all living creatures. That was muhammed who emphasized on division of humans only for his personal gains. Allah was only a tool he used to fill his wishes. if a absolute exist then he do not discriminate his creatures. Worship is a concept developed by human brain, God or absolute has nothing to do with it. He is all satisfied and self sufficient. Muhammed's god i.e allah's sole aim is to be worshiped, His nonsense do not stop here but he go ahead and instruct his followers for the jihad which justify even the killings of his own non-believing creatures.This only proves that allah is not god. He is a needy of attention.
Where did you find above story is it in Quran? if Yes please give the reference so all clear about this Dear Sister Narcole.
"ur obviously werent moslem. "
If asking truth about Islam is the sign of non-believers then it is proved by yourself that Islam is the religion of Brainless people.
" Dont force yourself to think. You're unable to think much."
And this is my suggestion to you don't tell lie for a cult but you understand it is religion unfortunately.
Because of the same reason God created them, there is no such thing as believer or non believer. This all were the lies of muhammed to create a cult based on the hate for those who are not part of his cult. God has nothing to do with foolish concept of believer or non believer. his love is unconditional for all living creatures. That was muhammed who emphasized on division of humans only for his personal gains. Allah was only a tool he used to fill his wishes. if a absolute exist then he do not discriminate his creatures. Worship is a concept developed by human brain, God or absolute has nothing to do with it. He is all satisfied and self sufficient. Muhammed's god i.e allah's sole aim is to be worshiped, His nonsense do not stop here but he go ahead and instruct his followers for the jihad which justify even the killings of his own non-believing creatures.This only proves that allah is not god. He is a needy of attention.
["They catch drug dealers, and take the drugs for them to use themselves and sell cos their salary not enough. You are just a bandit in police man uniform."]
Ok so you DO live in Bangladesh!
//''No thief who would admit that hes a thief, and say, hey im a thief, i just stole, and im proud of it.
But no innocent person would admit that hes a thief, and say, hey im innocent, but since im being accused as a thief, then i admit im a thief, and im fine with the accusation. None would."//
True. But the police and the justice department still must do something, by arresting suspects and sendig them to trials. And by punishing them to protect the public. Doing nothing is not an option for protectors of the public, like it is often not an option for the US military. If it IS an option for them, they restrain themselves, but you don't get to hear that and don't appreciate it.
Example: President Obama said the other day: my government always tries to find the most peaceful solutions, and we try diplomacy and sanctions and warnings. BUT STILL THE ASSAD REGIME USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
We all know that their are corrupt policemen among the bonafide ones. But in most Western countries they gt paid a decent salary.
And you raise the question of trust. If you do not trust the police by and large, who do you trust? Why do you trust your instructors, and the theocratic dictatorial Muslims who vilified the Americans, basically because Americans are free and democratic and the theocrats hate THAT? Aren't you being naive versus the Theocrats and paranoid versus the police, the US and us?
It will be futile to argue for you that in this world there exists a strategy, in response to criminal, violent, oppressive humans, that guarantees absolute zero killing of innocents. If you propose that, you propose something impossible. Staying inactive sooner or later will make decisionmaker guilty of negligence. I know Jehovah's witnesses who said that even against Hitler's armies they would never have defended themselves, their loved ones and country. But Hitler's army and henchmen/ regime killed at will, many people.
But, we humans can strive for the lowest possible number of killed innocents by triage, choosing response to murderers wisely. Or put positively, we could strive for the optimal number of people who survive to ripe old age. Not for 100 %, but for ever increasing %. And this % is really going up per capita, not down.
It has to come from both sides. You claim to be only accountable for your own sect. But when the other people, calling themselves by the exact same name, Muslims, who ARE theocrats and are aiming to destroy and block key democratic institutions globally, for that reason, foulmouth the democratic free Americans, you believe them and side with them.
But then you are surprised and offended that the infidels then paint your sect with the same brush as the Theocratic violent oppressive Muslims. But your fault it is not to clearly distinquish and separate yourself from the theocrats!
If you fail to distinguish yourself, it is your own fault that you get painted by the same brush.
I appreciate all those who educate others. The American and Western and Japanese leaders who stimulated and subsidized it. But you equally reject those in favor of women education and those against it. How ungrateful of one who is HERself well educated. Or you appreciate it for yourself but don't care one bit if other women can get your education or not.
//" Islam from prophet is only One"// "//Not us"// What does this mean' Islam is only one?". At best then the communication of God is very faulty. Because texts and tenets are understood in diverse variations; they are not clear, complete, up to date, not some perfect word from God. If you maintain that, you insult God, because humans can make much better laws.
And again you refuse to clarify who the "us" are. Did you perhaps mean the US? Because if you refuse to make clear globally what the difference is between democracy-accepting or democracy-hating and theocratic Muslims
it is your own fault if you get painted with the same brush by infidels who daily get attacked and abused by those theocratic Muslims you refuse to clearly separate from. And who you keep supporting by defending the whole Islam and not just your sect.
The history of violence may look strange to you, but 1. Predators killed countless prays and also humans in the beginning. 2. Humans, when still hunter-gatherers may have killed # 30 % of all men. 3. When civilization and then war started, per capita killing was still very high, but with the advancement of civilization per capita killing actually went down hard. One reason was of course better laws and police, another reason; democracies do never fight each other (whereas Muslims do fight each other still, at this time there is a big war between Sunnites and Shiites, in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon).
If you blame the weapons suppliers, you don't see that they both supply to bad AND TO GOOD GUYS. And you deny that users are guilty, why? They are as human and MUCH MORE responsible as the suppliers.
Moreover, the complexity and the killing capacity not-with-standing, as I said above, the killings per capita among humans has DECREASED, not increased, due to ever higher civilization. These numbers are studied and published by historians.
*rolls eyes* ur obviously werent moslem. You didnt know the history of the creation of universe in islam. The first creation is hakikat nur Muhammad. the body of Mohammad wasnt created yet, but the hakikat of him already created before this universe. This universe was then made from nur muhammad. lets say choose a single man and a single woman. They both already have got mani before they have baby. The baby is the body. But the mani is the element. So the element of this universe is nur muhammad from nur Allah. Okay enough there. Becareful nizam, there smoke around ur head? Is ur brain working too hard? Becareful, im worried. Hurry rest. Dont force yourself to think. You're unable to think much.
You're autist for having your own imagination about prophet.
Hes Ar rahman toward infidels, hes Ar rahim toward mukminin. 1 rahmat is for everyone, 99 rahmat special for mukminin in akhirat.
Muslims to divide by name? Even tiger crouches to hide among plants, iguanas do camouflage too. merely names, not enough. To differ which is original and which is pirated, you have to recognize each content and quality.
No thief who would admit that hes a thief, and say, hey im a thief, i just stole, and im proud of it. But no innocent person would admit that hes a thief, and say, hey im innocent, but since im being accused as a thief, then i admit im a thief, and im fine with the accusation. None would.
What the relation between afghan taliban and the americans with my original sect? Whos malala? Shes popular only bcos she got shot. So, people who educate others, but dont get shot, not appreciated?
Entire islam? Islam from prophet is only One. If there some group of astrayed people with fund from psycho rich man to buy alot of bombs and hire several emo guys to explode anything they could, then whats the relation between my One original Islam from prophet? who created the bombs and nukes? Not us. Who sell the bombs? Not us. Who bought the bombs? Not us. Who taught how to make the bombs, not us. The bombs, which killed so many innocent people are ur product. Its like boomerang for you. How many people a sword can kill by a person? How many persons can die from bombs from few guys? blame your own destructive technology. We never created bombs.
Lol i knew the policemen. They catch drug dealers, and take the drugs for them to use themselves and sell cos their salary not enough. You are just a bandit in police man uniform. Not gonna work. And the same police men shooting at innocent people just cos the robbers keep running everywhere. Nice. The robbers rob banks. The polices kill innocent people blindly.
What is truth according to you, is actually just your imagination.
Whoever kill the innocents, i wont be on their side. You support killing the innocents, the terrorists kill the innocents. Im not part of you both.
"Why would god feed his believers and non believers? This is Ar rahman. Ar rahim. "
If he then why he says in Quran that he does not love non-believers
read Sura 3:32Qul ateeAAoo Allaha waalrrasoola fa-in tawallaw fa-inna Allaha la yuhibbu alkafireena
Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.
22:38 Inna Allaha yudafiAAu AAani allatheena amanoo inna Allaha la yuhibbu kulla khawwanin kafoorin
Verily Allah will defend (from ill) those who believe: verily, Allah loveth not any that is a traitor to faith, or show ingratitude.
30:45 Liyajziya allatheena amanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati min fadlihi innahu la yuhibbu alkafireena
That He may reward those who believe and work righteous deeds, out of his Bounty. For He loves not those who reject Faith.
So how he is feeding while he hate them, this means quran is saying wrong or you are telling lie about Islam?
Why would god feed his believers and non believers? This is Ar rahman. Ar rahim.
"Soul is created from nur Muhammad, and nur muhammad was created from nur Allah"
If Soul is created from Nur Muhammad means before Muhammad men and women were soulless. And your above words explain about yourself that you are a autist.
Hey Narcole, I also had similar experiences in past when I wished something and it was filled next moment as by a sudden incident , a relative, guest etc. But after reading you I am in doubt why the hell allah was filling my wishes when i am not worshiping him. Same experiences happens to everyone at any instance of time in his life regardless of muslim or kafir. It proves there is somehting higher then our's plane but it could not be allah. Why would Allah appease someone whom he wants to be killed in the hand of muslims and who should be dispatched to hell fire right after death. he could be anyone but not allah as its self contradictory. In other religions there are concept's of god who dont discriminate, who loves all, unconditional love for all. One who is filling yours and mine and all other's wishes could only be the god who is for all.
Didn't the Quran say most women like Narcole will go to hell upon death.?
U are actually talking about reincarnation. Spirits never die n they are being pushed into the seemingly endless cycle of birth &death/birth&death. but according to Buddhism, good souls need not come back to the cycle of birth, grow old, get sick or injured n die and birth again which is considered as a form of suffering. They go to Nirvana, a place of perpetual happiness. This world could be the testing ground for reaping good souls ? God has a Divine Plan with the Law of Karma working in it.
Marathon 15'
To a lay man like u, life is simple.
All your memories are etched in yr spiritual body, even if u want to deny yr bad deeds. Upon death, yr spirit will face God's judgement n if u deny yr bad deeds again. U will be placed in front of a special mirror, which will plays yr whole life story accurately like a DVD player. Then His angels will carry out the due punishment.
Marathon 15,
More n more of these NDE, TDE, OBE n reincarnation cases are cropping up everywhere every now n then.
Don't use your limited/ outdated religious knowledge to judge them. U will realize your limitation soon enough.
Dear Sister Narcole,
"Nizam, i know ur autist and have ur own imagination about someone and you name it someone, but please, find other name. "
Kindly read and understand the meaning of autism "A pervasive developmental disorder characterized by severe deficits in social interaction and communication, by an extremely limited range of activities and interests, and often by the presence of repetitive, stereotyped behaviors."
Now you decided that your beloved Prophet is autist or me?
//"No one is forcing you to buy. its your loss. you need real product, but chose pirated product instead. And doing black campaign."//
About the "black campaign" you noticed. Yes. Because a "white" campaign would be about Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and Atheism/ Darwinism and all the other sellers of religious-spiritual products. But they contradict each other too. Only in disparaging Islam's tenets can they stay united. So yes, the anti-Islamists ARE negative about Islam and not positive about its competitors here.
But the unity of anti-Islamists does have the basic agreement that mankind should be free and governed democratic. A white campaign showing all the good aspects of democracy and freedom could be possible here then.
Because the main raison-d-etre of anti-Islamic websites and the main reason of their success is that at least a part of Muslims do advocate a theocratic dictatorship, which is very detrimental to freedom and democracy. These Muslims make Islam look like the supremacist, expansionist and oppressive enemy of freedom and democracy.
//"No one is forcing you to buy. its your loss. you need real product, but chose pirated product instead. And doing black campaign."//
It may be that Islam is "pirated" and misused. But if you admit that, then you should understand that the infidels fight and do a black campaign against the pirated product and not against the real product.
So Muslims who understand that should see the other Muslims who hate and provoke the infidels with their pirated product as the main enemies and no longer the infidels. Nowadays no infidels try to convert Muslims forcibly to their own religion/ lifestyle. The infidels are for 99 % prepared to accept Muslims in their midst, and guarantee them freedom of religion. Remember that the Western states already took in millions upon millions of Muslims. And in a big part for humanitarian reasons, taking in political refugees.
So my hope is that the reasonable Muslims eventually will make peace with the Americans and Westerners and prefer them over those Muslims who may have pirated and misused Islam.
@KTE, I completely agree with you. This what you mention is the Achillesheel of intelligent, thinking, arguing Muslims; these double standards of belief; them being so skeptical and often logical enough when it comes to listening to critics of Islam and their ordinary claims and so gullible, naive, in their own acceptance of the EXTRA-ordinary claims of Mohammed.
Atheist skeptics, although they can be too skeptical, negative and nihilistic I think, at least are consistent in their skepticism. Although Ali Sina points out that everyone has BELIEFS AND SKEPTICISM and these are only situational. Still, on principle, atheists/ Darwinists are supposed to go for the best, truest, most scientific explanations of everything they think and talk about, and not to go for some favorite explanation and stick to that all their lives.
But Narcole specifically asked for a clear better alternative, on the grounds that Islam offered her so much meaningfulness and joy I suppose. And to her and Muslims it looks like we ONLY want to take away something very valuable and powerful, without replacing it with something better. We seem to offer her/ Muslims only freedom, which is empty and meaningless for them.
I understand that, but I think Muslims should at least consider letting their children from early on be capable of making their own choice about religion/ lifestyle. And not try to indoctrinate them with Islam for all their life only, now that Muslims can know about the very shaky ground Islam is standing on. And their children at birth did not yet invest so heavily in Islam.
SO why dont u accept Christ as son of God it means we all are children of Allah and christianity is right (MO, AASLAM sucks) :-p
Shirk Shirk Shirk u are associating partners with allah u will rot in hell . Read quran surah ikahlass
(Qul-ho ALLAH HO AHAD)
al-Ikhlâs – The Purity
bismillah
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.
MO was created from sperm not any NOOR idiot look what allah says in Quraan…..
No, it makes me sad that so many people follow this illiterate desert dweller, who created a bloodthirsty cult, that preyed on the weak and innocent. And had the ignorance and arrogance to say it 'was God's will'. I do not smile when I think of this. Neither do the slaughtered millions.
If God sees evil, and does nothing. Is it because He is unable, but willing, in which case He is impotent. Is it because He is able, but unwilling, in which case, He is malevolent. Is it because He is able and willing – in which case, how can evil occur?
Heaven is a snickers bar…
@narcole1919721
//Stop your fitnah. Nobody wants to hear fitnah.//
Islam is the grandest of Fitnahs. So we are trying what we can.
@galileoDavinci
//what a wonderful place Bangladesh is for muslims like a heaven on earth no killings no evil am i right ?//
That is as long as they have Hindus to butcher. They have already reduced them from 22% in 1947 to just about 10% now. As soon as the Hindus are done with they will start it against themselves.
["You do not only defend your original sect, but the entire Islam because you never mention your specific sect and it's specific differences with mainstream Islam."]
Good point Demsci! narcole is only playing tricks to somehow save Islam.
@narcole1919721
//You mean ur a poison tree, mr chuck//
I am not Muhammad so I can't be a poison tree.
//Count how many children he had. //
Count how many he had after he married Aisha because thats what is being discussed here. 12 wives, no child. 30 concubines and 1 child, that too possibly not his own.
//Also count all prophets age *pokes*//
No need. No other 'prophet' married a 6 year old child at the age of 53 and bedded her at 9.
[" You dont have absolute proof since you dnt witness urself. Back to innocent default since you werent with him for ur accusation."]
I see. So you want absolute proof from us for what we are saying, and if we did not witness (since we weren't there) you wouldn't believe a thing we are saying.
Yet when it comes to Islam, you right-away believe whatever Muhammad said! When he said he was told by jibril (Gabriel) that he was prophet, you blindly believe him and don't ask for any 'absolute proof'! Do you see the double standards that you are using?
Did anyone witness jibril telling Muhammad that he was prophet? No! Then why do you blindly believe his claims that he was 'Prophet'?? How do you know he wasn't making stuff up?
And you do the same thing with what your sheikh says. You blindly believe whatever he tells you about Islam, Allah, and Muhammad. You make NO effort to check and see if what he is telling you is correct or not. Did you know that in Islam it is halal to lie to other Muslims if the lie makes them like Islam or keeps them from doubting!! A lot of things that your sheikh tells you are NOT true!
"Soul is created from nur Muhammad, and nur muhammad was created from nur Allah. we came from god, and we will return to god."
If sheikh naem as saufi's kitab says the above then it means he (as-saufi) is lying (or just plain making stuff up), because nowhere in the Quran or hadiths it says such a thing.
If the Quran or sahih hadiths say "soul is created from nur Muhammad" then show us proof!
What State do you live in narcole?
//"and if ur proven wrong, ull say, then how about other side? Its wrong too"// No, that would be a TU QUOQUE-fallacy and it would likewise never be accepted in the Democratic world, the free press, and the parliaments. God, how little you understanding you have of the true Democratic procedures, and of the immense capability of and inclination to self-critical attitude of both most Westerners and the press and parliaments in Democracies, who are divided in all sorts of divisions amongst themselves, often favoring, excusing enemies over friends, it seems.
And if you are so proud to be neutral, then I say, it is wrong to be neutral sometimes, for instance between a bankrobber who shoots and a policeman who shoots back. In such a situation people should support the policeman if possible and NOT be neutral.
//"You're so sure that the one you choose is to the park. and you're forcing others to choose the one you chose."// No, this is not my democratic way, which is that we listen to all concerned and try to argue and choose either through voting or choose by separating. (If staying on the spot is not a viable option).
Narcole, thanks for well explained answer and your personal experience as example.
//"but each think each is the right, and others are wrong."// Yeah, I know. But it is still useful to know the opinion of all the persons involved. Often later one can see the merits of the opinion of others.
//" And use excuse that if other side could do this wrong, why cant i do wrong too?"// We talked about the US Army. and no, the US Army cannot argue and behave this way, the free press or the press of it's enemies would crucify then the US Army and leaders verbally in a devastating way, all over the world, including in the West. Army officers would be prosecuted.
//"By saying a good moslem is a killer. If not kill then not real moslem. You close ur eyes not accepting truth that real moslems love peace, and bad moslems are zhalim and astrayed."//
All Muslims will say they are the "good ones' and only "defending themselves and killing the guilty, those who do fitnah, or those "who are making mischief in the land".
The solution would be for Muslims to divide by name: from my perspective for example between the "democratic" and the "theocratic" Muslims. With meaningful essential differences broadcasted to the world and Muslims openly admitting to which part they belong.
But Muslims and you too seem to any clarifying distinction between Muslims deliberately vague. On the one hand they are for ever protesting the innocence of Muslims, on the other hand they are always refusing to separate irrevocably from the clearly theocratic, violent Muslims. And at the end of the day the peaceful innocent Muslims, like you, will again choose the side of the violent Muslims against the Americans. Or at best describe the Americans as just as bad as terrorists. You seem unable to choose honourable, honest, careful infidels over criminal Muslims. While I assure you that I prefer well-behaved Muslims over many criminal infidels.
//"Schools of spreading hatred?"// No, just ordinary schools, like those all around the world. Which the Taliban forbade and destroyed. If you had been an Afghan girls, the Americans would have wanted you to study, the Taliban would have wanted you to stay dumb and subdued and mother to 6 babies. But, to you the Americans are just as bad as the Taliban. You don't appreciate the Americans, instead you come up with the excuse that "they then spread hatred". But you betray your gender with such a Islam-prejudiced attitude.
You do not only defend your original sect, but the entire Islam because you never mention your specific sect and it's specific differences with mainstream Islam. But you maintain the fiction that you present the only right interpretation of Islam.
And the fiction that anti-Islamists only "invented" their interpretation of Islam, while in reality the anti-Islamists mostly only echo how a big part of the Muslims themselves interpret Islam.
On the one hand you deny to us any connection between extremist Muslims like the Taliban and your original sect. But on the other hand you take their side against Malalah Yousoufzai and against the Americans.
Or at least you say that Americans are as bad as those Taliban-killers, woman-oppressors. While the Americans treat their women well, according to good laws and they punish woman-oppression. And they would stop fighting in Afpak if the Taliban stopped because they only want a democracy in Afpak.
What about quran….. it is no feeling…… their is no such thing as love in it???
so he never killed any one ?????
we are not killing any one we are just telling the truth and if truth hurts u that much than u are free to go.every one in this world has right to speak. just because of some insane emotional people like u we cannot accept your lies. If u consider that tabhlikh is right than u should also accept criticism what will u do when islam gets banned in all non muslim countries and i think it should..
look sylvester stallone he is 60 plus and in 1000 times in better shape than your Mad Mo :-p
what a wonderful place Bangladesh is for muslims like a heaven on earth no killings no evil am i right ?
The first thing she will do is to leave Bangladesh and fly to Miami have all the fun she could not because of silly teachings of MO ….. (I guess she is from Bangladesh i maybe wrong but it is more than probable but i am not too certain. )
@narcole1919721
//Mr chuck, did u sign the no.3 agreement yet?//
I would but you don't keep your side of the agreement. You haven't yet said what you would do if you find that we are right and you are wrong. Will you, for example, publically apostise?
Nizam, i know ur autist and have ur own imagination about someone and you name it someone, but please, find other name. Or get therapy. Oh im sorry you dont get to any word im saying. Its okay. Do you want to try theraphy with dolphins? Its fun. And you can name the dolphins as you like, and ask them to bring you to any direction you ask, and then blame the dolphins if you dont understand their language.
Schools of what? Schools of spreading hatred? you see, both have mistakes. But you dont see there netral one. Who really wants peace, and trying to make peace. But you also spread the hatred to the innocent peaceful ones too. By saying a good moslem is a killer. If not kill then not real moslem. You close ur eyes not accepting truth that real moslems love peace, and bad moslems are zhalim and astrayed. So actually ur real targets are the innocent ones, by accusing the innocent ones as the bad ones. And keep killing and disturbing the innocent once since ur unable to face the bad ones. And are the bad ones real bad ones, or other extra seasoning guys playing role as excuse to terminate the innocent ones?
Why would they spread and leave me in peace? What have i done? What have you done? U must have mistakes.
If you dont know, how could u accuse?
Whats the relation between, afpak, taliban, america, with my original sect?
Only believe, not obey? Which they believe? Stuff from extra seasoning men who said its from prophet, and they believe its from prophet? Are someone who thinks hes following what others said as one mans words, and someone who really follows that one man directly, same?
Its clear in ur feeling.
Its just ur opinion that each sentence related to each other. You dont have absolute proof since you dnt witness urself. Back to innocent default since you werent with him for ur accusation. Only extra seasoning.
Gosh recently i got report from workers about their protest against the company leader. they asked me to convey their feelings and thoughts directly to the owner, at first they said i was on the owners side and not supporting them. And then i called the owner, and he snapped at me telling that im supporting them, and against him, while he made decisions for our sakes too. He snapped at me. And accused me being on their side. And they also whined and accused me being on the owners side. While, i only told them to communicate better, and stop argueing. now im blamed by both. One asked me to shut up, one asked me to do something. we are supposed to be one team, live in peace, but each think each is the right, and others are wrong. So in fact, the golden rules dont apply here. And it seems, no matter how i straighten the misunderstanding, each side will still thing as the right one. you, are no different than them. You keep accusing others, and careless about other sides. And use excuse that if other side could do this wrong, why cant i do wrong too? and if ur proven wrong, ull say, then how about other side? Its wrong too. so since other side is wrong, means this side is right. The fact is, you dont know how to be netral, and you dont think the netral side in making peace between you and other side, exists. You keep denying, blaming and accusing. You think you are the right one, and force others to follow you. If you meet a Y junction, one is deathly forest, and one to park, you'll say that this one you choose, is to the park. While others who say the other one is to park. And you keep argueing. You're so sure that the one you choose is to the park. and you're forcing others to choose the one you chose. In fact, none of you can prove which is one, cos never been there. You both never been in afterlife. as a netral watcher, someone suggest u to choose what you choose and let others choose what they choose.
Like Muhammad who is a mental and blame all the innocent that you will be in hell fire at the judgment day but what will be with him?
You mean ur a poison tree, mr chuck?
Count how many 53 yo men who still look young as if 35 🙂
Count how many children he had. Also count all prophets age *pokes*
Mr chuck, did u sign the no.3 agreement yet? 🙂
Oh, whos Mo? Are you an idiot? I just know prophet Mu7ammad shollallahu 3alaihi wa salam.
He did tell.did you know? oops, ur too lazy to go to the original sect majlis ta3lim. what? U said u did? Or the terrorists did? Not their majlis ta3lim, but the orginal one majlis ta3lim. you deny? Cos u see them keep bombing? Well bombs werent made in original sect. So, must be another extra seasoning.
And you didnt tell what u know about those words definitions 🙂
Which hadiths? English extra seasoning hadiths?
Hello? Do you know ghaib?
Soul is created from nur Muhammad, and nur muhammad was created from nur Allah. we came from god, and we will return to god. but we are not god. if ur body came from ur parents, does it mean ur them? read kitab about ruh from sheikh naem as saufi for more details. Dnt keep asking without efforts.
@Ali Sina
//Souls return to acquire more experience.//
Can it not be possible if someone takes too much delight in eating flesh, so in next birth he acquires body of snake or lion etc. in which one will have most perfect body than human for flesh consuming. This body will be perfect for getting more experience. For many this is Karmic law. I think it is difference of understanding of the same thing.
i was going 2 say that. thanks for answering .
If you ask where soul goes after death then first question that should be asked – what soul is made of, right? Probably this you may find interesting – the entire visible universe (most part of the universe is invisible) originated from nothing ("shunya") (Now also accepted by western scientist with a slight twist by bringing matter and antimatter etc. in between). it is also known that the universe will end up into nothing or void or "shunya" and the cycle of creation and annihilation will go on. (Probably you may also know that visible universe is expanding and the void that is created by the expansion is being filled with dark matter even though this point may be irrelevant here) . Now if something is created from nothing and ends into nothing then what really its true nature could be? Then are we living in a dream world or a holographic universe. And more you think about it more you feel better and feel that everything is so beautiful so thoughtful and you can not help but thinking how it came here and why for what purpose?
@ Ali sina,
Accountability works in the form of awareness? U have forgotten the sins u committed in your past lives. How can u became aware of them?
No punishment from God? How come billions of people are suffering in this world for no apparent reasons.?
U choose your challenges and face them? If u were born as child laborer working all day long making bricks in Pakistan for 2 miserable meals, I don't see how u can choose your challenges n face them. I don't see how u can play any game in this situation other than work or get beaten or being denied food.
Narcole, U are using BS teaching to say that God holds your soul when u sleep. U cannot prove it.
@Ali Sina.
/Accountability works in the form of awareness. You feel the same pain or happiness you cause to others. Everything returns back to you./ How does that work ??????? Nobody can understand this nonsense.
If you had caused a life-long pain to someone, how could you feel the same life-long pain ???
If you had hurt people with the swords in your previous lives, God will see to it that you need to go through many surgical operations to compensate the pains n suffering you had caused to others, or met with an accident that required major surgery. At least this make sense.
Marathon should watch "A Haunting" in Discovery Channel and see the various gadgets used by the paranormal investigators to detect the presence of spirits in the those haunted houses. Or 'the haunted" in Animal Planet Channel where sometimes they show you the actual video of the haunting n the bizarre behavior of the animals on see the ghosts/spirits.
u r right, even i thought of this after posting this. but i could not find the original one uploaded by memri. there are many names for this video under different accounts. one was ''pedophilia is ok in islam'', which i personally found 2 b the most appropriate.
When you start watching this video, it is written on the top of it: "Islam permits sex with one-year-old girl"……I watched and listened carefully to the video, but he never, never said so…he said:" sex (or marriage) with a young girl is permitted when she matures 9-13"……..I am strongly against sex with a girl in this young age, even if she is matured……but I also despise lies.
Mr Aryan Hindu, you can't live on your mother Kali's breastmilk alone and forever be a wuss for life. You need to wean and start eating solid food and stand up like a man. :p
@ Gracy …………I have got my mother Kali. That will suffice.
Mr Aryan Hindu, thanks for your idiotic comment and for loving me the way I am. I love you too but please do respect my human right to love my dear Ms Dr Ali Sina and that heartless gamer, Mr Jonathan Harrel.
Mr Aryan Hindu, you're a sick man and you need Jesus.
According to islam ……( Brain = A Donkey ) and ( Islamic teachings = Mosque)
AND any one going to a mosque for saying his prayers he must leave his donkey outside the mosque. Simple logic yet so hard to understand by infidels
Islam is not just a religion it is a way of life it tells and deals about every aspect of ones routines and habits every thing from as simple as eating food to how to rule a country under its inhuman law, and bidah according to islam and many islamic scholars is innovation in religion or doing some thing not done by the holy Mo is not accepted in Islam. If you consider celebrating Mos birthday as haram and bidah than you should just stop being a hipocrite and do every thing according to this principle and reject every modern espect of life that was not present at the time of Mo and or things which were not done by Mo… It includes every thing from icecream to airplanes you should also compell your jihadi muslims to stop doing bidah when they are on holy war or jihal (as this is also the part of religion) they should just stick with the methods of war which were their at that time and they should drop there AK 47s and get swords just like their prophet did. It will also be a big relief for rest of the world too . You guys have no logic or rationality, all i can see is Hippocratic behavior to adopt every thing which goes in favor of the cult and drop every thing which benefits humanity or rest of the world.
On 11th of this month she will attain 44 years of her existence ,she is quiet experienced ,but you are young like her son ,forgive that aunty for her age old belief ,she led her whole life in bad company ,we are compassionate people ,let we work together to show her tender care,hallucinations repeats during old age it is not her fault ,her mentor left her 14 hundreds years back ,unable to find himself solutions to his wile deeds..
They call it pak (Pious),but it is the basin of criminals (Mosque),they do not do any work ,they always call "Allah ho Akbar" seating ideally in that basin (mosque) and, hoard all modern weapons to use against infidels .They killed 65 Hindus with AK 45 hidden in the their Pak (pious place) hive on this auspicious occasion of Ganesha Chaturthy in Mujapphar Nagar in the state of U.P and our own people enjoy bleeding of our own blood its a gruesome tragedy.
LOL… I agree!
@knowTheEnemy,
//if she is intelligent enough to see//
She is intelligent enough to avoid seeing what you want her to see :-). And she is intelligent enough to know how to dodge answering such question. There is hardly any 'true' muslim who isn't aware what an evil this creed is.
[Plus gotta start reading college books and memorize them all.]
Yes… memorize them all like a parrot. But make sure NOT to try to understand what they are talking about! That would be haram!
I know what you mean. I ask such questions because I want her to see (if she is intelligent enough to see) how Muhammad regarded women.
171 replies to a single post? This is crazy. Why dont you make a forum for yourself, Ali.
alisina.org / forum
Get our guys to install it, or use the FFI forum and create a new section there. DO IT. Dont put this off.
and the submit button often not work lol
*yawns* more than hundred msgs recently with bad net and the site links keep moving to other links everytime i press…also funny moving comment box and sluggish insert letters in comment box, also cant log in to intense debate, also the site often blank. Great. *laughs* keep waiting guys. Im busy with other tasks. Plus gotta start reading college books and memorize them all. see ya in days ♥
Biddah means innovation? In what? Is innovation in making cake also biddah? Wow, you really dont know arabic and islam. Fake ex moslem?
Mr Aryan Hindu, I've already explained many times here in this awesome website. Please go through all my comments and you'll get the answer.
@knowTheEnemy,
//No terrorists around me. Means it worked//
They have been asked to spread in other places, so no terrorists around her :-). And if she is Indonesian then she should be aware of the Sunni goons who are indulging in the extermination of the Ahamadiyas.
@knowTheEnemy,
Do not expect her to answer direct questions directly. She will 'paraphrase'. Second it is not about how many women a prophet married, but how the prophet kept on making special provisions for himself. Ok, muslims 4 wives for you, atmost, fine.. Allah allows me as many as I want… and by the way keep 20% of what you loot in my godown!!
u kw, i used to think that this site is banned in pakistan. too sad the illeterate mullahs dont even kw abt it this site. Mr ajmal qadri does, but banning it did not occur in his pea sized brain.
//"We cant trust that the distributors are from our side."//
Then do also not trust those other "Muslims" who vilify and fight the other "sellers", like the Americans and Israeli's, and judge the other "sellers" more mildly, more positively.
And if they do the right thing, side with them against those who you yourself disavow as Muslims, when they do the wrong thing.
You state your problem as the name of Islam being pirated and now with an analogy that many of those who profess being Muslims, knowing Islam well, have heretically appropriated it and are misusing or misunderstanding it.
But in a conflict between misusers/ misunderstanders of Islam and infidels you still either openly judge the infidels as the most wrong side, or you say that the infidels are at least as bad as the false Muslims.
But I need you to sometimes actually PREFER good infidels over bad Muslims. As I myself so often prefer good Muslims over bad infidels.
//If 53 is young, then he was a tree//
A poison tree.
Yes I know the definition or else I wouldn't be using those words!
You have not answer my questions yet….*waiting*….
"I educate before they become terrorists. See? No terrorists around me. Means it worked."
How do I know there are no terrorists around you? Where do you live? What state?
Demsci you are right. narcole is a terrorist supporter! And we all thought she was some naive ignorant teen.
No. In the Hadiths and Seerah (Sira)!
If 53 is young, then he was a tree
He said the sect that follows my "sonna", meant the "sonnies"
Did you remember to wash before you prayed? don't forget to wash after also
don't forget to wash before and after "Sholat"
biddah means innovation so why dont you take this word seriously and apply it practically, ride camels instead of cars and airplanes after all these are all inventions of infidels. Be a true muslim live the life of your prophet and it is sunnah to follow him and live his life. JUST DO IT
//"Eventhough goodness of islam is infront of you, u close ur eyes and say, thats not islam, islam in your dictionary is negativity."//
I agree there is also goodness in Islam. OK.
And much goodness among Muslims. Who maybe falsely attribute their goodness to Islam sometimes.
But is the goodness in Islam totally unique and not present in other religions and among their followers? Or is the same goodness found among several religions and their adherents?
The negativity towards Islam you observe, which is overwhelmingly only verbal, and not violent, or inciting to violence, is almost exclusively because of DEFENSE against Islam by anti-Islamists and posters.
Since i have to pray and do other stuff, how about you take a seat, read mags, enjoy the snacks and be patient? 🙂 here *gives you card* which number do you prefer? 🙂
Lol i dont know whether ur math sucks or ur grammar sucks…ur reminding me of nizam…patient no.1 x'D *coughs* but ur case isnt that heavy
//"Its islam which you created in your own mind."// It may also well be that YOU also have an Islam which you created in your own mind. With much unconscious democratic influence in you and much ignorance or denial from you about Islamic texts, their meanings and about what other Muslims teach and say and do.
You have to remember that many anti-jihadists and apostates not only are thoroughly familiar with all of Quran-Sira-Hadiths, in Arabic too. And that they mostly also merely"echo" what real Muslims are thinking and saying and doing, and that they are being led and taught by real Muslim clerics, scholars, politicians. So the difference of opinion is not so much between Muslims and infidels but between Muslims among themselves and infidels taking sides (of interpretation, not of friendship).
We can also say that it is the Islamic message, the communication of Allah, was faulty and leading to the current enormously confusing situation with the great variety of (often contradicting) interpretations of Islamic holy texts.
It seems you have different definition of love here. What is your definition of love, and whats all peoples definition of love? ♥
@narcole1919721,
//Another paraphraser xtra seasoning man//
I am not paraphrasing at all. You are. Tell me, do you think polytheists, pagans, atheists, and those who don't belief in Muhammad being a prophet, are innocents?
Lololol can you not repeat same old song? Expired questions already. Dont make me yawn..be original.
Another paraphraser xtra seasoning man 😉
@Demsci,
//It seems you do take the side of terrorists, or thieves in your analogy//
I agree with @Narcole when she says "It seems? Its just ur feeling". Because it doesn't "seem", it is clear that she is taking side with the terrorists.
Islams name itself pirated by many. Include the specific ahlus sunnah wal jamaah, also pirated by many. So prophet told us, to differ not by name, but from teaching. 🙂
It seems? Its just ur feeling, mr Dem Paraphraser Sci.
@narcole1919721
//Thank god prophet still young when he married her//
Was a 53 year old man. And was so potent that couldn't produce a baby from any of his wives since Khadija!!
//"the innocents families become the avengers and join the terrorists becos of revenge."//
OK, that seems a good argument. But is it the whole truth?
Let us say that when an innocent person is killed, then it is likely that the relatives want revenge and will fight back, regardless who the victims were and who the killers were. But by that standard it would be logical that the Taliban was much more hated than the Americans, because it is estimated that up to 80 % of those killed in Afghanistan are killed by the Taliban (and allies). But it seems many of the AFPAK-population hate and blame infidels more than they do Muslim fighters (and have appalling double standards, due to appalling Islamic propaganda, and censorship).
But Gunnar Heinsohn, since 2003, propagates another theory; that of the overpresentation of "angry young men" in a society. The demographic situation in AFPAK is now that young people, from 15-29, are much more than 30 % of the population. The many YOUNG MEN there are not hungry, and thus very energetic, full of hormones, but they have scant perspectives.
And according to Heinsohn, in such a situation war and/ or crime are very likely to happen on a big scale. Heinsohn's theory also underlines that those young men often seek some kind of ideology, especially since they like it much more to be fighters for a worthy cause than to be just murderers and criminals, which many humans resent. And so Islam is used, or misused, by these violence-prone young men without proper perspectives. So I think that you will like Heinsohn's theory, Narcole.
Is lamp bid3ah too? ('o')/*¤*
narcole1919721
//Thats not how the agreement sounds like. ur really newbie. ask nizam how??
I will complete the statement : ask Nizam how I won't commit to any agreement :-).
Old deceptive tactics!!!
it means that there are 72+1y sects in islam still you proved your mo wrong because he didnt knew this much maths he just told about 72 sect and said out of those only one will be right. He was very poor in maths so he didnt knew about your equation , or forgot mentioning 1y sect.
Who would read?._.
//I did say only islam that has a right to label someone as moslem or not, only islam that has right to tell which is quran or not , and only islam that has right to tell which is sunnah or not. Capisce?//
Which is a hogwash since anybody born in a Muslim family has no other choice but to be called a Muslim. If (s)he turns apostate then we know what would happen to him/her.
Thank god prophet still young when he married her…:') and handsome ♥_♥
Thats not how the agreement sounds like. ur really newbie. ask nizam how 🙂
Love is Rahmat what the hell are u talking about, Love between na-mahram mard and Aurat is Rahmat in islam U SIMPLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ISLAM
U may decieve me by saying that marriage btw prophet and khadija was a love marriage. but first of all it was not a LOVE marriage at all, and even it was than it happened before islam it will be like saying drinking alcohol is not prohibited in islam because even after Nabuwat people use to came and offer their prayers while they were drunk.
@narcole1919721
//Those who kill innocents arent moslems.//
And those who don't follow Islam aren't innocent. That completes the loop.
72x+1y=still 72x+1y :p wrong math 😉
Okay, come to my original sect majlis ta3lim ~♥
//"Preventing killers? By educating them"// Of course, but don't you know that NATO forces everywhere in Afghanistan stimulated and helped to build schools? They like nothing better! Malalah liked nothing better! And who blew up the schools, murdered teachers, tried to prevent girls from attending schools? The Taliban, from the Madrassa's, the so-called students of Islam. Their goal; to establish a dictatorial Islamic theocracy, in which at least girls CANNOT get education.
But now that the Americans hit the schoolblowers, teacher-killers, theocrats, so that education could continue, you decide that both the Taliban and the Americans are equally bad and wrong. is that really a credible position?
Thats y your religion condemns women to disagree his husband whatsoever when u br as a loyal dog to your husband and he keeps you trained by required beating as according to quran than no talaq and your allah stays happy
Never underestimate sacred marriage, or ull live in hell. Hell in dunia, hell in akhirat.
Tell me the name of this marvelous sect u are talking about,
KTE got it right. You have to admit that the violent, fighting Muslims that the Americans are really after, are also waging war and killing innocents. Now tell us that you judge those Muslim fighters, like Osama Bin Laden, like the Al Qaida-and Taliban-killers, just with the same standards as you do judge the US Army.
And think about the "dead-baby-strategy"! Do you deny it happens? are not those fighting Muslims who hide among innocent civilians, with children, and who fire rockets from schoolyards and mosques, guilty of endangering the lives of those innocents?
Or is it you who is making excuses for those fighting Muslims? What if the US Army put it's barracks in densely populated areas? Next to schools?
It seems you have the one high standard for the US Army and the other low standard for the Muslim fighters.
Unfortunately im hard to be handled type, and so is he. Thats why not married yet. We know and are aware of the risks. Best slave of god is the person whos success in marriage. Iblis gathers all his satan army and checks their achievements, nothing can impress him as much as the ones who make a husband and a wife divorce.
72 + 1 = 73 which means your mo was lying and u are telling truth
lol ur talking as if we would use bombs. small fights still normal.
why not if celebrating mo's birthday is bidah too
let the readers decide this one
Zina before marriage is haram. After marriage also haram. Love is rahmat *rolls eyes*
NAKED OLD MAN … u are right I can imagine what ayesha would have done when this would have happened to her.
In your dreams?
//"I did say only islam that has a right to label someone as moslem or not"//
I'm not sure about that. Maybe the majority of mankind should find an agreement on that. Or at least the majority of Muslims. If those cannot agree on who is and who is not a Muslim, I think new names are necessary.
Anyway, how can Islam be the fastest growing religion, as many Muslims claim, as it is shown that so many who call themselves Muslims are NOT categorized as Muslims by other Muslims?
Will many ordinary Muslims not play the trick to disavow, towards the infidels, the violent, oppressive Muslims. When the infidels demand some accountability from the ordinary Muslims for being and staying in the same organisation with the violent, oppressing ones. While secretly, among themselves, excusing the violent Muslims, and regarding them as fellow-Muslims, while opposing and accusing the infidels who fight them???
ok i make an agreement here that i will revert back to islam now prove it.
Moslems who? Who kill who? Original sect doesnt kill innocents. The end. Those who kill innocents arent moslems. Capisce?
Arabic is a language. Arabs are people. Tsk tsk. Ur speaking english. Are you english? x'D you're not british nor american pfft
O mother of islam could you please reveal this secret upon me, i will be honored to know the fact which 1.5 billion muslims could not find for last 1400 years. It will also be good for your ummah as they will stop killing each other as they will know what is the original sect do a favour to your own muslim brothers and sister REVEAL THIS SECRET WHICH WAS KEPT HIDDEN FOR SO LONG
You call that a homework? Lol, newbie. Old post. Its obvious you just copy paste from old same source x'D if sina thought any ayat he would bring could make me silent, he would have come to me and asked directly to me. In fact he never questioned any ayat directly to me cos he knew he wouldnt win and that would just embarrass himself. Thats why he keeps letting you guys come here with his same old copy paste article pffft im open with any ayat challenge in agreement 🙂
//"when malala was attacked? when thieves went to my house, where were you?"//
You started to incriminate, accuse, vilify the US Army, calling them Zhalim.
So now you give the analogy with thieves. So as to show that you are as innocent about murderers in AFPAK as KnowTheEnemy is about thieves. OK.
But KTE is not incriminating, accusing, vilifying police officers when they arrest and overpower thieves. But it is you who tries to incriminate, accuse, vilify the US Army when they are fighting murderers/ terrorists/ would-be-killers of little girls/ destroyers of girl-schools.
It seems you do take the side of terrorists, or thieves in your analogy, because you vilify those who fight them, the US army, or the police in your analogy.
Truth is like a naked old man running to you. You runaway and close eyes.
You mean seasoning.
Open dictionary 😉
72 are new. 1 is original 😉 xtra fitnah man
Oh then what about eating ice cream? Bid3ah too? Lol
Fight with husband and rot in hell, Thats why ur prophet on mai-raj saw most of women like u rotting in hell. Be a true muslim at least and be obedient to your husband like a loyal dog :-p
Love before marriage Haram, HARAM means hell for u :-p
What a lair u are alll sects r new and made after the death of prophet and u are also part of some sect. DONT LIE ATLEAST people of all sects belive that they are the original sect… LAIR
yr prophet killed, raped, murdered, looted. thats not very innocent
Lol since there are 73 sects, means there 73 versions of quran and sunnah of prophet. *rolls eyes* means you dont care or dont know what you're asking about pft
And why are muslims killing their own people of other sects all over the world in islamic countries.How come u are so STUPID. muslims are animal they cant live without killing and their quran tells them to do so. TRUTH
My question is, from all 6666 ayat quran, how did you get those random ayat as group? Did you read from ayat 1 to 6666, then filter them, did u open quran randomly and then "accidentally" found them? Or did you just copy paste from random article, without caring to read from the beginning until the end? You admitted that ur not hafiz. Its clear that you dont master quran in holistic way. You just cut several ayat, and hide other ayat. Or you even dont know other ayat. I see an ancient pattern here. Wanna sign agreement and be the 6th?
If what u say is true then their r no friends in islamic world
ha ha! but hey, if yr frnds try to harm u after knowing this, they r not true frnds.
It means islam was only for arabic people … u r busted
They were messengers from One god. Allah. To different people at different time. All of them were sent to remind the people and warn them also to give news to them. do you know the definition of insan, and the definition of kamil?
U cant defend any one ayar of it forget about rest of the quran.
here is your home work take this one ayat and defend it with all your reasoning and hadith what ever u like, that this is the word of the most beneficent and merciful delivered through rahmat-ul-alameen (mercy on the whole universe)
“Humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax if they are Christians or Jews,” (Q.9:29)
Oh now ur supporting a moslem man.
I educate before they become terrorists. See? No terrorists around me. Means it worked. Oh look, you kill terrorists and the innocents, whats there now. Oh the terrorists grow more like hair after shave, oh look, the innocents families become the avengers and join the terrorists becos of revenge. Great. Good job dude.
truth is wierd than fiction …. and the truth is that mo was a rapist murderer lair child molester and a madman
Great. You cut qurans ayat and brought the cuts only here. Whats there behind you? Your hands hiding something.
In muslim world there is no such thin as reasoning …..
it is not a word :-p
Above where? *looks at the sky*
narcole >circular reasoning is islam
One word : Nah
And what is islam?
I did say only islam that has a right to label someone as moslem or not, only islam that has right to tell which is quran or not , and only islam that has right to tell which is sunnah or not. Capisce?
In your mind fiction is real
Tablikh through internet is also bidah, U are doing bidah lame…
When did prophet speak english. bring original souce, xtra seasoning man. did you try x factor contest?
The ayat where there u can find least of humanity is of during those days when Mo was weak and had few companions but After the death of Kadhija, our holy Prophet married Sawda, and then under-aged 9-year-old Aisha at the age of 53 and by this time he became very powerful in Medina. However, the Jews and Christians had rejected his claim of prophethood and his call to embrace Islam. Than the attitude of the Prophet and tone of Allah’s subsequent verses dramatically changed.
I do NOT care how many sects there are! Did I say in any of my comments that I care about sects? YOU are the one who has been making fuss about sects.
The only things that I care about is whether they think Quran is word of God, and whether they think Muhammad is messenger of God! If they do then then they are Muslim plain and simple, no matter what sect they belong to!
Look more like contradictions ,,,
Only people who have mental problems who blame innocent person with fitnah.
READ THIS
“Oh you who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you” (Q.9:123)
“I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite above their necks and smite all their finger tips off.” (Q.8:12)
“Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him.” (Q.3:85)
“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.” (Q.9.5)
“slay them wherever ye catch them.” (Q.2:191)
“Humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax if they are Christians or Jews,” (Q.9:29)
“Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers” (Q 3:54)
“Muslims do not take Jews and Christians as your friends” (Q 5:51)
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the last day, and fight people of the book.” (Q.9:29)
“O people of the Book (Jews and Christians), do you find fault with us, except that we believe in Allah? Shall I inform you of him who is worse than this in retribution from Allah? Worse is he whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine and he who served idols. Such are in worse plight and far more astray from the straight path” (Q.5:59-60)
Ill give bonus explanation as promotion. Why in at taubah, not started with bismillahirrahmaanirrahiim? Thats cos god telling that hes not ridha with people who broke agreement. And why its called at taubah, becos he loves people who repent.
And which of those rasuls brought a message different from what Muhammad brought? (according to your sect)
AND which of those rasuls is insan-e-kamil??
Read the exceptions in 9:4 and many other ayats. Ill write other exceptions if u sign agreement
"In fact its me who always pushes him poligamy since im a free type woman, and its him who always refuses. He says he only wants one woman full service."
It seems he is way closer to humanity than you are (you are nothing but a brainwashed zombie)!
Did you ever 'educate' the jihadis, narcole??
U are right allah never forced anythng .. lol
not honour his own earlier words.
“Oh you who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you” (Q.9:123)
“I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite above their necks and smite all their finger tips off.” (Q.8:12)
“Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him.” (Q.3:85)
“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them.” (Q.9.5)
“slay them wherever ye catch them.” (Q.2:191)
“Humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax if they are Christians or Jews,” (Q.9:29)
“Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers” (Q 3:54)
“Muslims do not take Jews and Christians as your friends” (Q 5:51)
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the last day, and fight people of the book.” (Q.9:29)
“O people of the Book (Jews and Christians), do you find fault with us, except that we believe in Allah? Shall I inform you of him who is worse than this in retribution from Allah? Worse is he whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine and he who served idols. Such are in worse plight and far more astray from the straight path” (Q.5:59-60)
*bell rang* wrong answer! prophet did tell how to differ. they created new sects. New sects are bid3ah. There was only one islam when prophet alive. The sect which exactly from that one which is the real ahlus sunnah wal jama3ah.
"Screw with ur excuses. What is wrong is wrong. What is innocent is innocent. You cant sacrifice the innocents for the wrong. Get it?"
narcole, please tell me the name of one jihadi website where you posted the above message.
TWO WORDS: MUNAFIQ MUSLIMAH
Hm? In my sect we believe in 25 rasuls. Ur another extra seasoning man!
*counts words in that story which originally from me* *counts words in that story with extra seasoning* ha! Ur the guy with extra seasoning! Gotcha! *interviews* mam, is this the guy with extra seasoning that harmed you? "yes, thats him." Okay. Now its time to arrest you. Dont run! *uses karate*
And Islam says any person who believes in the Quran and follows Sunna of Muhammad is a Muslim! Anyone who thinks otherwise is only deluding himself/herself!
Terrorists believe in Quran and Sunna, so they ARE Muslims! Einstein, Jesus, Buddha, etc are NOT Muslims because they do not believe in Quran and Sunnah.
In your eyes truth is fitnah
Stupid analogy ↑↑
Ok tell me something! Muhammad said Muslimahs are deficient in intelligence and religion. Do you agree with him??
Do u want to see me mutilated…….
@ galilio, does yr friends, parents, siblings kw abt yr apostasy?
Even God who has the right to force you to worship him, is not forcing you to worship him. He only created two places. One for his believers, one for non believers. Its not him who needs us, its us who need him.
it did. throughout it's history. read verse 9:29
No one is forcing you to buy. its your loss. you need real product, but chose pirated product instead. And doing black campaign.
Stop your fitnah. Nobody wants to hear fitnah.
Ur talking as if its him who wants poligamy and its me whos munafiq who doesnt want poligamy but halfheartedly accepted it. In fact its me who always pushes him poligamy since im a free type woman, and its him who always refuses. He says he only wants one woman full service. Wth.
ok, and which of those sects do not believe in Quran and Muhammad?
Answer: NONE! All of them belive in Quran as word of God and Muhammad as 'messenger from God'.
Therefore it is Quran and Muhammad that we have to investigate whether or not they are truly from God. Of course it took only a little bit of using our brain to figure out they are not!
Preventing killers? By educating them. Not by killing them before they kill. killing them before they kill makes the doer as killer too. Then no difference between you and them. Plus killing innocents too.
To me, bad infidels and the terrorists, are the hated and the astrayed. What you do is same, then your place will be the same. And none of you is part of us. Thats why god created two separated places, for good people and bad people to separate and say good bye.
It doesn't matter how many wives other prophets had! You don't believe in those prophets, you believe in Muhammad. Therefore it is him that we have to test to see if he was real prophet or not. Of course it did not take long to figure out that Mo was mentally deranged and a fraud!
no, he wont. the reason he did evil was because of his mental problems. if he had a normal childhood, there would have been no islam and mo would not have been a criminal.
Screw with ur excuses. What is wrong is wrong. What is innocent is innocent. You cant sacrifice the innocents for the wrong. Get it? Ur hopeless. Its as if ur brain cant function anymore to find right and clean solution.
ME : Who says muslims dont "DRINK"
Narcole: True muslim never drink.
ME : who is a true muslim.
Narcole: Me ofcorse i am a true musalimah.
Me : U said women should learn karate in order to face abusive husbands after marriage u are not true musalimah at all, U are a "Munafiq" true musalimah will never say that in islam husband is like god to his wife he can beat her he can do what so ever and her wife has no right to raise her voice wife can never say 'NO' to her husband holy prophet said if a man wants to have sex with her wife while riding on back of camel he has right to do so then why learn karate u are just a Munafiq in eyes of islam go read surah Munafiqoon how much your allah hates munafiq. Be a true muslim atleast
Narcole: How dare u kafir, apostate, murtid tell me about about your religion.
Me: Oh mother narcole believer of MO forgive me for my sins.
(U know that according to your quran and allah munafiqeen will also rot in hell.
And most of the muslims are munafiqs)
Only islam that has right to label someone as moslem. Capisce?
Okay..the zombies exist in your mind.
It seems, islam in your definition, isnt islam which determined by Allah from prophet. Its islam which you created in your own mind. Eventhough goodness of islam is infront of you, u close ur eyes and say, thats not islam, islam in your dictionary is negativity. So curse ur own mind for creating the new mindset. you're talking about different religion, different god, different prophet, and different moslems. Ur just labeling stuff randomly and name it.
He did tell. Oh you're waiting for well to seek the bucket. all you have to do is take your bucket and seek the well.
Okay, then ur alcohol. Go get drunk.
Just ur feeling..*looks at nails*
My prophet is in heaven now. dhallin aint related to him.
Id rather stay single forever than marry dhal man.
Remember your words when you get married let your husband do polygamy…. AND i am sure u will LOL (Munafiqeen will also rot in hell)
but u are left with no choice in this case, either buy or die by hands some insane muslm or burn in hell for eternity Lol
Thanks, Chuck!
and YOU unmask yourself as well; You care nothing for preventing killers to kill innocents, as long as the killers are Muslims, and the ones killing the killers are infidels. If a criminal was Muslim, and the policeman who arrested him were infidel, would you be in favor of the criminal? Would you attack the policeman and let the criminal go?
Narcole, if we do what you seem to suggest, than we don't respond to violence by terrorists, because they hide among civilians. And while criminals will pause for committing crimes openly because of fear of retaliation by police and death or jail as punishment, you support the policy of letting terrorists get away after committing murder, just because they found a way to be immunie from retaliation, by playing the "dead-baby-strategy". And you don't think that if that strategy works, the terrorists will be emboldened to kill even more, with impunity. So strong is your prejudice against America and Israel.
If it was clear to you, that Assad use sarin gas and killed 426 children with it, would you still call an American attempt to punish him and prevent him from doing it again, just as wrong as what he did with that gas?
//"Oh ur labeling someone as moslem as u like."// Unbelievable that you say that, all these terrorists that I talked about; Al Qaida, Taliban, HAMAS, Iran, Hezbollah, ALL label themselves as MUSLIMS. Islam is the most important thing in their lives. All have cited the Shahadah, adhere to Ramadan, Zakat, 5 prayers a day, on principle going to Mecca. it is you who refuse to call your sect by a name that clearly let them stand out from other Muslims. And it is you who takes refuge to denying Muslims are Muslims when they act violently or oppressively, when they are doing it in the name of Islam and doing it with justification by Islamic holy texts.
ALERT: Human life in this world is under constant danger for last 1400 years from "Mombie Apocalypse" we really need to take some serious steps before Mombies take over the world and wipes of humanity from face of this planet.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, the truth is that you are essentially a spirit, lock up in a body.
Now i know that zombies are not fiction they really exist….
No he didnt…and why would he because if he would have told this then there would be a little more peace in the world. This would have gone against allahs desire of seeing blood shed and killings and after all he wanted to see most of the people to rot in hell for eternity.
Use common sense why would allah guide people to heaven when his utter most desire is to torture then not just in the world but hereafter. damn unbelievers are so stupid i pity….. lol
@narcole1919721
//The messenger already told only one is original. //
But did he tell me which one?
Nice job Demsci.
@narcole1919721
//if want to buy our exclusive original product, buy directly from the producer, not from unknown distributors. //
Stop you dawah, nobody wants to buy your silly product.
All muslims are same… ;Are u saying that diluted HCL (acid) somehow becomes sweet honey and is good for health.
Muslims are like hydro-caloric acid some are in dilute form and some in its pure original state neither of them are good for environment or others health.
The only thing left for u is to hate me, curse me imagine to see a apostate like me to rot in hell for eternity but all I offer u is infinite love for humanity. Thats it….
No heavens No paradise No man-o-salwa and No infinite sex in heaven choice is yours be greedy like your prophet and reject love for hate ..
The day U or your loved one is going to get attacked by some muslim from other sect than u will not only curse your religion but your prophet for deceiving its people. Muslims are not just killing or being voilent to other people but to themselves too, Just because your prophet said that their will be 72 sect and only one of them will be correct or enter jannah even though he is proved wrong by his own words their are more sects than 72 at present. Look into yourself and u will find hate within u for not just a kafir but for someone who is a believer of your Allah and Mohammed. Just reply for a simple question
Will u marry a shia muslim male? ( I know what will be your answer and it is not difficult for me to find out that u are not a shia women)
Whos the seller, whos the distributors? if want to buy our exclusive original product, buy directly from the producer, not from unknown distributors. We cant trust that the distributors are from our side.
"So by acting militarily you may kill innocents, but save more innocents than if you dont act militarily. "
See whos supporting innocent humans sacrifice. No more comment. you unmasked yourself.
Oh great. Just cos someone does wrong, u take that as excuse to do wrong too. *clap-clap*
Oh ur labeling someone as moslem as u like. Then dont blame me if i label einstein or jesus as moslem. what then? Budha and brahma too.
How many women did other prophets have?
You didnt use glasses, it was convo between a goat seller and a woman.
No there are 73 islam sects. The messenger already told only one is original. please get original product, not pirated.
Lets find whos the guy who put extra seasoning and ruin the original recipe. will he confess??
Moslems who? when malala was attacked? when thieves went to my house, where were you? why not stop them? are you their friends? why not catch them? Are you thief too?!
Zaid came to him wanting to divorce her. But why did he say be patient?
//"You are rival in business who says your biggest rivals product is bad'//
Good analogy. So the products are religions/ lifestyles and the sellers are followers of them and the customers are mankind. And the sellers are or should also consider future generations. The sellers naturally think their product is best, but at the same time are or should be bound to certain fair and democratic rules.
In Islam is the deathpenalty for apostasy. Imagine: A seller prohibits customers, once they are customers or are born to Islam-customers, to leave it's product, on pain of death. And in practice of severe separation of family and community.
In countries where sellers of Islam are in power, other products are heavily disadvantaged, by laws, among them blasphemy laws, and heavy propaganda of own products and censorship of the products of others.
And at least some sellers of Islam openly strive for mankind to be all buyers of it's product and not necessarily only by fair and democratic means, and not only because of the quality of the product.
If the other sellers, intent to compete ONLY on quality of the product with complete freedom for the customers AND their children, and with complete freedom of speech,
unite in defense mode against the most aggressive sellers, the Islamist Muslims, yes, then it may look like they are only trying to bring Muslims' product down.
Which is a pity, because Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and Darwinists alike of course do appreciate their products as better, more true, more beautiful and also more effective and beneficial for mankind and future generations.
Example; the promise of a heaven seems to make Islam a great product, but the truth of it is heavily in doubt, and this probably false belief may make it's buyers unnecessarily spiritually and intellectualyy unnecessarily occupied, conservative and lethargic in this earthly life, which is a disadvantage of the Islamic product, which competing products may well not have.
Yes, someone, you report what wikipedia says.
And that story originally came from Ibn Hisham. He lived in the NINTH century and it is what he wrote about the autobiography of Mohammed written by Ibn Ishaq, of whom everything is lost, but who is said to have written this autobiography around 760.
Now the reports about war and conquest done by the Arabs in the 7th century are not much in doubt. But the information about the Arabs already then following Mohammed, Islam and in possession of a complete Quran may not be trustworthy. As I learned from Robert Spencer's book: "Did Mohammed exist".
It says that real contemporary sources gave either none or indeed contradicting evidence about Mohammed, Islam, Quran in full existence as has been told us 1 and 2 centuries later by Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham.
In the youtube video presented by Know The Enemy I saw that Mohammed fathered 3 sons, who all died young and the oldest was named Qasim. Some person who was named Ubul Qasim may indeed have been the rolemodel for Mohammed (which means "the praised one") but it is not sure or even unlikely that HE was and did ALL that we are told that Mohammed was and did by these VERY LATE sources.
And Arabs may have had only the incentives of loot and power and the opportunity of immensely weakened opponents, the Byzantines and Persians, who had just experienced devastating plaques and who had just fought each other to exhaustion, militarily and economically.
And it may be that the decisive factor for the Arabs to win in the beginning was the defection of the Ghaznavid Arabs, long time allies of the Byzantines, who they could no longer afford to pay off.
//"They know there are innocents too, still they generalize the innocents with the terrorists cos blinded by hatred. How many the terrorists? How many the innocents? count."//
I agree with this. But what, apart from vicious Islamic propaganda and your huge prejudice, makes you conclude that the US and Israeli politicians and commanders do NOT do this?
Can't you see that there are provocations by terrorists and governments (like Assad's) that simply cannot go unanswered? Precisely because the terrorists will search for terrorist acts that cannot go unanswered? Because they are determined to cause terror to provoke necessary reaction by a Western Democracy that would prefer NOT to act militarily? And don;t you see the many times that they indeed do refrain from military action, even when provoked? They have NOT interfered in Syria and they have been heavily criticized for NON-action too!
Remember your accusation, condemnation of politicians and generals who are forced to respond to provocations, for when you or Muslims are in the same position. Then Muslims would have to do TRIAGE, weighing and choosing the lesser of two evils.
Those Taliban and Al Qaida-leaders that are killed by drones, often have blood on their hands, they killed Benazir Bhutto, tried to kill Malalah Yusufzai, and blew up so many innocent Muslims. And they are likely to continue their murdering business. So by acting militarily you may kill innocents, but save more innocents than if you don;t act militarily.
And if you are keen to disavow Taliban and Al Qaida as your fellow-Muslims, please follow that up by putting the responsibility of the tragic deaths of innocent civilians (dead babies) on their heads and try to judge the Western responses to their actions more honestly and mildly.
Otherwise you still side with those violent Muslims. Either you separate from the Islamists but then side with the West against them or you side against the West and for the Islamists, but then admit they are part of your team, so to speak.
//"Who are you to accuse me and my people for defending terrorism?"//
KnowTheEnemy (KTE) was responding to your accusations of the US Army. But the US army was responding to terroristic actions done by people who call themselves Muslims, like police responds to violent criminals. So KTE was talking about what some Muslims do.
But perhaps you are only talking about your sect within Islam. Because you are perfectly capable of denying that the obviously guilty people calling themselves Muslims, ARE MUSLIMS. And I think this vagueness of yours is deliberate.
What seems so unfair to me: Terrorists who are Muslims, who do undeniable horrific actions, provoke the US (and Israel) to respond militarily. And the first response of many Muslims is to accuse the Democratic military of war-crimes, as soon as it happens, attributing all kinds of conspiracy theory-motives to the West.
But when it is pointed out to them that the original terrorists were calling themselves Muslims, fighting for Islam's sake, then they disavow these terrorists as genuine Muslims.
OK, But they neglect to draw the next logical conclusion with all it's consequences, and that is that the terrorists bear the responsibility for both their terror and the reactions by the military and thus the western military is NOT GUILTY. Or at least; The Terrorists, these Muslims, fighting for Islam, are much more guilty!
//"Its just your excuse. us army bombs can kill more than they should."//
In defense of US Army and also of IDF: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/16/h…
From that article:
"Hamas knew that Israel, like any democracy, would have to take whatever military action was necessary to stop the rockets. As Barack Obama put it when he visited Sderot, a town that had been victimized by more than 1,000 rockets and several deaths: “If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that. And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.” Hamas also knew that Israel could not stop the rockets aimed at its children without accidentally killing some Palestinian children because Hamas was using Palestinian children as human shields for its rockets."//
And we can truthfully replace Hamas with Taliban and Israel with US in this article. When we look at what happens in AFPAK.
This is about Islamists against Democracies, and they are using civilians, women and children as human shields for their rocket launch pads, their headquarters. It is called the "dead-baby-strategy". Now that the US is threathening to bomb the military of Assad in order to destroy his chemical weapons and to deter him from using them, Assads regime is moving even prisoners to sites likely to be bombed and military installations to heavily populated areas.
And Islamists also make sure Al Jazeera-crews are present after US and Israeli actions and show the world the "dead-babies".
but anyway, that's has been always all what it is about.
I am not analyzing here…I am just submitting a part of a historical story
In the beginning you said if you find a beautiful goat you will marry her, so I assumed you are a man. sorry
Islam is Muhammad's product! Nobody put extra seasoning in Islam. The Sunnah of Muhammad IS Islam, and the only Islam!
Muslims only accuse us of zhalimness. When the jihadis attack other Muslims, then you accusers are nowhere to be seen! When that girl Malala was attacked, only the westerners tries to spread awareness about what happened with her. Pakistan's politicians only paid minor lip service! Do you want to know why? Because they knew if they take her side too much, the devout Muslims will be upset!
You can't see, can you? Relationships are not only biological, they are also emotional. There is respect in relationships. An adopted son is just like one's own son….THAT is what it means to 'make them your own son'!
But you cannot see that Muhammad lusted after his son's wife!
Im gonna be late for sholat. *prays*
Oh you're accusing our product is dangerous and showing some sample for victims who consumed it? Lets check *interviews* mam, where did you get this product? "From the other man. He put some extra seasoning into your product and said its bonus."
You did not answer my question! How many wives did Muhammad have?
Who are you to accuse me and my people for defending terrorism? Its not in our teaching. we are taught to against zhalimness wherever we find. Include yours.
I wouldn't be happier minding my own business if your product was not so dangerous to me, my loved ones, and the world! Do you see us railing against any other religion? No, because they are not dangerous! Some may be silly but they are NOT dangerous! Islam is dangerous and will destroy the world like atom bombs!
We spread negativity?? The terrorists don't spread negativity? Those people who shoot girls for going to school and throw acid in their face don't spread negativity? Do you know what happened in Beslan 9 years ago? Don't those horrible jihadis spread negativity? Why are WE the guitly ones? Because we point out that your product stinks?
You are supposed to be LOYAL to humanity, not Islam!
Know the reason why incest is prohibited. Learn biology. See how many examples in life for those who marry their close family and the effect to their descendants. Imperfect body. The prohibition of incest is for the childrens sake. Zaid was from far christian family. Was it related?
See what you are doing! You are pointing ten fingers at US, you are talking about the count of innocents, but you never go to jihadi websites and tell them they are blind with hate!
US does NOT hate Muslims. Muslims enjoy all the rights in the US like anyone else. Do non-Arab Muslims enjoy equal rights in Arab countries??
You cant digest it cos your mind is still small. grow your mind first. find fertilizer, then come back again. when the fruits ripe then harvest.
You found value in Muhammad?? ok tell me, Is it ok to marry one's daughter-in-law?
As a loyal consumer, i can say that ur a liar. you're only jealous of ur rival and spread negativity about its product so that people will buy yours. if people want to buy yours, we dont care, its your business. But mind your business. Dont mess with us. you're gonna get sued.
Well of course it is hard to digest the kind of things that Muhammad did! There is no way a 'messenger of God' does such evil things, and there is no way a real God teaches the kind of things written in the Quran. Ok tell me, how many wives did Muhammad have?
Notice that you are using iron rule and bronze rule here.
Its just your excuse. us army bombs can kill more than they should. They know there are innocents too, still they generalize the innocents with the terrorists cos blinded by hatred. How many the terrorists? How many the innocents? count. and just cos some people do wrong doesnt mean you have excuse to do wrong too. What is wrong is wrong. Terrorism is wrong. invasion and bombing innocents are also wrong. Which means, you are no different than the terrorists.
We do not want you to buy anything! You find your own product! But we do want you to know of the horrible product that you have! Why? Because the evil product that you have is seriously harming not only you, but other people too, and other creatures too!
And because we care about people and because we care about the environment, we are talking against it!
The US army never bombs innocents deliberately! It is your muslim brothers, the jihadis who deliberately hide among women and children and fire at US soldiers. But you turn a blind eye to the jihadis' crimes! Why? Because you know they are not doing anything unIslamic by putting women and children in danger!
Also, what about all those Muslims that are bombed by fellow Muslims, especially during Ramadan?? Why do you never talk about them?
Flawed logic is what YOU have!
You believe Quran is from God just because it says in there it is from God. There is nothing of value in there still you believe its claim of being from God. Is that logical? Just because the wrapper says 'snickers' on it does not mean you should start eating the wrapper. The logical thing to do is to check if there is any chocolate in there. If there is nothing, like in the Quran, you are supposed to throw it in garbage dumpster.
Same thing with your belief in Muhammad. You believe he is messenger of God, just because he said he is messenger of God. Everything he did was the opposite of what a decent person would do, yet you think he was prophet. Why? Just because he said he was prophet. Is that logical?
I told you the other day [correctly] that your wrapper-snickers analogy applies to YOU perfectly!
In other words? Paraphraser again. We can clearly see this. You ask about something which your mind ability is hard to digest it, then what will you get? Astrayed.
You are rival in business who says your biggest rivals product is bad, cos you want others to buy yours. you are not, a honest seller who offers his product and not forcing people to buy if dont want. Not even insult others product and defend himself by saying 'i only want people to receive the best, which is mine, and not buy others bad product. I love people'. In fact, you're only selling your stuff and forcing people to buy.
Your makar wont work. You'll be makar victim instead. What you do is what you'll get.
Mr Marathon15, you're wrong. If you're really interested to find out the answer, please ask my dear hero then. 😉
*looks at megan fox* hm?
Its Allahs business.
Flawed logic isnt logic '',
Thanks for your taxes. help the us invade moslem countries and bomb innocent women and innocent children. *grins*
You have to accept that in marriage there will be fights.
Hm? why talking about my relationship…privacy, u know. i love my bf. hes a toad prince. sometimes a toad, sometimes a prince. i already accepted that. when hes being a toad when theres moonlight, i just wait the cloud or sun comes ~~
This just show that the incentive of raiders was loot and even someone like Ibn Abi Sarh who knew Muhammad was lying used this religion for his personal gain.
Watched your video, it is true…….and the end of the story, according to sira, is that Mohammad pardoned Sarh reluctantly, but Mohammad didn't know that he did just the right thing,…….when Othman became a Caliph, he appointed Sarh as a Wali (governer) in Egypt…..after that Sarh invaded North of Africa and made a huge fortune, then forced the natives into Islam. Amazing, if Mohammad didn't spare the life of Sarh, N. Africa wouldn't be Islamic.
Suppose you get a shock after the first night you spend with him, then what are you going to do? divorce him and marry blindly another man or what? answer me narcole1919721
I thought you are going to get married, not going to war
I am not following anybody. I simply agree with Ali on many matters (but not all). Agreeing with someone is not the same as 'following' them.
And what is the point behind your remark anyway? Are you implying that if I use my brain then I will start following Islam? Do you know what happens when someone starts following Islam? Answer: Islam immediately prohibits its followers from using brain! Quran 5:101-102 say "O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which, if [answers are] disclosed to you, will cause you trouble.""Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith [in Islam]."
In other words, don't use your brain…. because if you do, questions will pop up in your head. And of course the next thing you would do is try to look for answers in Quran….and the answers will trouble you! You would start thinking things like 'how could a true God say such a stupid/ evil thing'…. and you would end up realizing that Quran can't be from real God, and Muhammad can't be God's messenger. That is…. you will lose your faith!
Therefore, don't use your brain! Just blindly believe….. because ignorance is BLISS!
Here is an example of a man who lost his faith for using his brain and wondering about ONE SIMPLE question "Is this really true?"-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-3iSi2V3UE
["Donate to corruptors *rolls eyes*"]
I don't donate to Muslim governments. I pay taxes to the US govt. Here, people in need recieve full benefits that they are eligible for!
Even if the US benefits system had flaws in it, it would still be infinitely better than practicing polygamy (taking advantage of woman in distress).
It's not 'feeling', it is logic!
This is true. Dairy and egg industries are very cruel to animals. Don’t consume them or at least reduce their use. I use soy, coconut, almond or rice drinks to make my coffee and the taste is great. We really don’t need milk or eggs. I occasionally eat Pizza and ice cream. There is no need for that either.
Accountability works in the form of awareness. You feel the same pain or happiness you cause to others. Everything returns back to you. What you do to others, you do it to yourself. But there is no judgement or punishment from God. There is no Karma points you can collect in this life for your next. We don’t come to this world to have it easy. We choose our challenges and come to face them. It is through overcoming these challenges that we evolve spiritually. We learn new things each time. The more difficulties we overcome, the more lessons we learn. That is the whole point of coming here. Life is not supposed to be easy.
If you play a game, will you improve your skills if you face no challenges. Will such game be fun? The more challenging is the game the more you effort yourself and the better you become. Before coming here we know this world is only a game. We come here to face its challenges and we set the level of difficulty for our self because we think we can overcome them.
._. *doesnt watch* *whistles*
Donate to corruptors *rolls eyes*
Who worship granite? You?
Ohkayy…so? islam never forced infidels to believe. its for people who believe. For people who dont believe there special hotels booked already 🙂
You don't have to go to mecca to worship granite. You can find one on your backyard.
We know that Koran is not a Hindu book. Instead it as a Anti-Hindu book. Won't believe a word of it.
Why should Satan and angels be tortured in hell ? They could be deported to some planet. There is no need for hell. Moreover if hell is for Satan why humans are put there ?
you are sheep following him instead of using your brain.
Mr someone, I've no words to describe the sinful nature and cruelty of human beings.
Mr sanatandharma86, hell is created for satan and all those fallen angels who staged a coup in heaven against our loving Creator God.
thats islam for you….[youtube SsExiAbCk1A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsExiAbCk1A youtube]
thats islam for you……
Simple Logic_The problem with karma is that it contains many extrapolated religious/cultural concepts that was superimposed on it.If you strip away predestination,or the belief that people are born poor,or into lower catses or deformed due to past life mistakes,or born as animals,etc . and extract only its pure essence then you are left with the Law of Attraction.
But do you know how this milk reaches your table? I will tell you: humans impregnate the cow by force to have milk, and when she gives birth, they take away her baby (the calf) from her to the slaughter house. The mother is always attached to her baby whether a human or an animal…..noticed the cruelty of the humans??
Mr Aryan Hindu, a little boy have no say, power, influence, right or authority over everything in his life but you are no longer a boy but an adult man. You have to behave and act like a man. Otherwise, no lady will want to marry a wuss like you. Why do you care so much about how your relatives or even how the world think of you, if you break all ties with hindhuism? It is your business anyway, not theirs.
@Agracean
Dear if Jesus love unconditional then for whom hell made by Jesus.
Mr Aryan Hindu, I've already explained it many times in this awesome website. Go and search for it then or you could ask my dear Ms Dr Ali Sina for the answer.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, I believe that you won't remain a free thinker. Afterall, you're a smart and wise man.
When you deny the Karmic Law, you are saying that God has no accountability in the functions of the universe. Even in the law of physic, scientists say " in every action, there is a reaction." Most the religious masters had recognized this Law all along thousands of years ago.
If every soul could chose which family it wanted to be born into, then there is no Karmic law. No soul would chose to be born into a poor family. And many souls would not like to come the this world. Human would become extinct long time ago. But that is not God's experimental plan.
You maybe part of God but your soul is a separate entity from the Holy Spirit. God is a very fair judge and has no qualms about punishing doers of unforgivable sins to work out his "balance sheet".
YOU REAP WHAT YOUR AND YOUR ANCESTORS HAD SOW.
EVERYTHING GOES ACCORDING TO THE DIVINE PLAN. And not the the plan of your chose or thought. You deserved what you get.
Mikey, please see this website in context and see the big picture. And also the long run. There are some non-Muslims who insult Islam, but many more who tolerate Islam and are respectful to it. So are you saying that NO NON-MUSLIMS AT ALL may say something critical to Islam? And being critical to Islam is almost invariably interpreted as insulting to Islam by Muslims, but it is not insulting THEM personally.
Furthermore Islam exists among a variety of other religions, ways of life. Of course the non-Muslims want to promote their religion/ way of life and they are in the process going to criticize/ insult Islam. Which is perfectly legitimate. Muslims can do criticize/ insult other religions/ way of life too, and ALL the religions/ ways of life get routinely insulted.
And in the long run? Well, IF Ali Sina would be successful, Islam would be abandoned en mass and the pain of the insults would be felt by the current generation only, not much by future generations. If you want to prohibit, hinder criticism/ insults you may end up trying to let Muslims perpetuate the problems with Islam by indoctrinating their children and demanding them to be Muslims as well and so on and so on.
I read this debate and found it very amusing…hahaha….to be honest, your competator is smart and have the answer ready on the tip of the tongue……I do not care about the faith of a person,, but I love the sharp one.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, you might not believe in angels and demons but please try to understand the fact that human beings are made a little lower than the angels and this means that we need to understand the areas of our human limitations. Some human beings became demon possessed due to their ignorance of the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5t9U9r9Kfs is this you sheikh ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3m3t87-dk is that you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7_LfghKTrk for your jewish friend!
Mr sanatandharma86, now, this is getting really fun and interesting. Please tell me, what do you understand about worship, according your Hindhu belief? Can you kindly explain?
Mr Aryan Hindu, are you sane? Cows don't feed human beings milk and their milk is meant for their calf. It is we, human beings, exploited cows by using our hands or machines to pump out all their precious milk for human consumption. Now, do you understand such simple logic?
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, did you really ponder over all my good explanations about the reality of our loving Creator God's unconditional love towards us and how that great deceiver, the father of lies, deceived the whole world into believing all kinds of fanciful lies? You will realize that my explanations make sense and you'll get the full picture. 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHwATEWqslw narcole please dont marry a muslim man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHF-aqszO7Y watch this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHF-aqszO7Y
LMAO
Every body other than muslims go to hell no matter how good they are.,,,,,
To: narcole1919721
…….. narcole, is that you ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jabwvBcPtT4
Yes I did! I pay taxes to the govt and it funds organizations that help women in need. When I have more money I will donate directly to those organizations!
This site is designed to expose the true nature of Islam and what it does to its followers. Of course your feelings will be hurt when you find out that you were lied to by Muhammad.
You should be calling Muhammad "shameful and vile" because he is the one who fooled people and did evil things. Ali is simply trying to free you from Mo's deceitful evil spell!
So help them, now. *waits* *looks at the poor women* you did nothing.
You clearly dont know what you're talking about. Proof that you are false.
Experience what? when? How often, how fast, and how big and small ur cravings?
So?
Its just ur feeling B)
Not all moslem women are like that 🙂
I wish everything good for you in your life to come, and not worry about me.
I know how muslim women are kept "like a frog in well" women in islam is something which should be kept in parda so they can see no evil hear no evil say no evil and think every thing is going fine for them. Find the truth your self.
I am a idolater and the experience that you are talking about has happened to me too! Apparently God does not discriminate whether you are Muslim, Atheist, or idolater! But Quran/Muhammad say God does discriminate. Quran clearly does not know what it is talking about!
And that is yet another proof that Quran and Muhammad are false!
You don't do polygamy to help poor, helpless women! You help them learn skills so they become self-sufficient. Polygamy is nothing but taking bad advantage of someone's miserable condition. A real God would not easily forgive this!
Read from 68 to 69 don't misguide….
قُلْ يَـأَهْلَ الْكِتَـبِ لَسْتُمْ عَلَى شَىْءٍ حَتَّى تُقِيمُواْ التَّوْرَاةَ وَالإِنجِيلَ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ
5:68 Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has (now) been sent down to you from your Lord (the Qur'an).''
وَلَيَزِيدَنَّ كَثِيراً مِّنْهُمْ مَّآ أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ طُغْيَـناً وَكُفْراً فَلاَ تَأْسَ عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَـفِرِينَ
Verily, the revelation that has come to you from your Lord makes many of them increase in rebellion and disbelief. So do not GRIEVE for the people who disbelieve.
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ ءامَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالصَّـبِئُونَ وَالنَّصَـرَى مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ وعَمِلَ صَـلِحاً فَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
5:69 Surely, those who believe, and those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
22, 16 to 17
22:16
Sahih International
And thus have We sent the Qur'an down as verses of clear evidence and because Allah guides whom He intends.
22:17
Sahih International
Indeed, those who have believed and those who were Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associated with Allah – Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. Indeed Allah is, over all things, Witness.
Well, if your relatives love you they would not mind you joining a church/temple whose teachings you agree with, even if it is Jesus's church.
But you raised another important point. You ended up born in Hindu culture. You read the epics, purans, Geeta, and other books, those made sense to you and your belief in the Hindu God became firmer! Now Agracean's Christianity sounds silly to you (and me too)!
What I am saying is that if God (the real one) made you born among Hindus, then it is God's fault that you are not Christian, not anyone else's…. even if Christianity is true religion!
*azan* *going to pray* oh, do you know when someone is murtad, all good deeds he did got erased eventhough if revert back to islam, still have to qadha fardhu? tsk tsk. how many years ibadah wasted. you gonna be broke in akhirat. and dark in qubur.
Read 22:17 and 5:69 B)
Its only moslems around you. Moslems around me aint like that ._.
Than it may mean i will be there with u in your heaven Right?
Every thing is created by God or mother nature and every thing has a purpose in this world no can say that I hate snakes they are venomous so kill all the snakes in the world. I am not saying u to have a snake as a pet all i want to say is that respect all life and stay safe no need to wipe them off from the face of earth. This is the muslim mentality they hate and kill every thing that goes against their nature.
I have a perfect example for this ; Their is a park near where I live for a very long time their were alot of chameleons in that park around two years ago a madarsa opened near that park. I use visit there when ever I had time and suddenly I found young children from that madarssa while going back homes use to visit that park and they use to divide them selves in group and started killing those chameleons when i asked them what are they doing they said they are earning sawab (god karma) and their ustad (guru) told them to do so .
22:17 Indeed, those who have believed and those who were Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associated with Allah – Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. Indeed Allah is, over all things, Witness.
5:69 Indeed, those who have believed [in Prophet Muhammad] and those [before Him] who were Jews or
Sabeans or Christians – those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness
– no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.
Answer me one thing according to your understanding of Islam where do see Mother Teresa right not in hell or heaven. Serious Answers only
Its just your feeling, quran didnt mention saddam usama theresa and ghandis name B)
oh so you want me to describe it further no problem at all. I use to recite fateha more than dozen times a day.
"The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor"
Here Allah means the path of those who fought (Killed) in the way of allah with mushrikeen(Jews,Christians and Hindus) like Usama, Saddam and Mehmood Ghaznavi.
"Not of those who have evoked anger or of those who are astray"
Astray here means all non muslims me Ali ,Mother Teresa, Gandhi, some five year old jewish kid who died some where in the world.
Oh how about you do poligamy and help those poor women? dont worry, my bf is strawberry man who planted rose, and clean graves and save cats, also buy tissues from poor little kid
Jokes apart I really dont wish for any domestic violence for u or any other women . I know muslim women have not much choices they are left helpless in these situations as now i am not a muslim any more i really feel bad for them. I wish u to have a happy life regardless of your faith.
Oh now ur aware lol
I asked you, what can you offer 😉
No need to leave allah or god just change it, I can show u the better one
And e coli
How about amoeba
Hm? didnt i explain already that verse? Newby! ;D auliya here means plural form of wali or leaders. seek further explanation in other thread 😉
Let us just stick to the topic we are drifting away. Talk about islam
I love all living creatures. Now whats the point, Shoot it
Friends really? Ah! so you are not a muslim at all thats good..
Surah 5:51 Al-Ma'ida
"Don’t take the Jews and Christians as Friends"
I am glad that the Agniveer people are trying hard to bring people to Hinduism, but I am not sure if their translations of Vedas are accurate. Plenty of stuff seems to be just plain made up!
["my spirituality is something which I can explore by my self alone by my own experience and knowledge."]
Yes, you can. But you do need to open your mind further. An open mind is what one needs to keep advancing spiritually. Steven Hawking understands the universe because he has an open mind!
You just left Islam. Your mind will open up wider and wider over time, so there is nothing special that you have to do except be curious about everything.
Al fatehah "The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked anger or of those who are astray."
I happy to be Dhalin (Astray)
You dont like penguins?
Because i dont live in a desert.
Why not like camel?
Just that? Lol my love for him is fillah. becos of Allah. why would i leave Allah for a man. is that all you can offer? Aw not fun.
At least u wont be stopped from dating a man u want to marry.
I only say learn karate 🙂 have u watched matrix..how keanu reaves avoided bulllets?
Can clearly see that you're dhalin.
What a bad muslim you are husband is next to God in Islam.
U are right i take my statement back . I was little good when it comes to using brain.
Ok, even if we agree that the verse means faith in Brahman, then too Aryan's traslation is wrong. It is one thing to say that the scholars have derived [the quoted] meaning from the allegory-like verse, and it is another thing to say that verses are saying [what Aryan posted].
I fully understand that being truthful makes it very hard to achieve goals, but there are certain matters where Hindus need to give strong importance to maintaining credibility!
Their is no need to fool you we can clearly see that.
Why would i be ready to live with you lol
No… but your your prophet did. by the way why are u asking that?
Why not? we're friends.
Which means now u are ready to live with me Wow amusing. Living relationship.
How come u know that much about the personal life of a jew…. hmm
Hm? my jew friend wished me jumma mubarak. did i marry him?
Dont deceive with your Innocence how can I wish u eid, jummah or ramazan on advance , well in my country tomorrow is Jummah .So I wish you Jumma mumabarak in advance… Will u marry me now ? ;-p
Like me? 😉 Nah B)
Moslems already reported that wikiislam is fraud :p you cant fool us 🙂 remember snickers wrapper and the chocolate? 😉
hahahaha Thats exactly I am saying I nither was a hafiz nor i flew to mecca , I was just like you….
Why would he hurt himself…hes been doing good in life 😉
You mean ta'aruf. btw why afraid of abusive men. Just learn karate. Simple 😉
Wiki Islam does not give personal opinions. There you can find quotes from Islamic sources that Muslims don't like to advertise. Unlike the Islamic sites that censor any opposition, Muslims are allowed to write their version in a part dedicated to them. If you want to truth about Islam you can find it only in Wiki Islam and not on Islamic controlled sites.
Dear Aryan Hindu.
I haven't been to the other side. Of course I have been but I don't remember. Those who have been on the other side say there is no such thing as Karma. Karma is a human invention to make sense of something that to us does not make sense. Please read the story of Anita Moorjani. She grew up as a Hindu and had all that Karma up bringing. She has had one of the most dramatic near death experiences. She is one of the many who say there is no such thing as Karma.
Karma and reincarnation don't go hand in hand. We choose the kind of challenges we want to have in this world. We are not sent here by force. So those who have a hard life must have thought they need that kind of experience. They are not suffering because of past mistakes.
I noticed u like quoting wikiislam. we moslems know that wikiislam is not islamic site. many reports of hate speech and harmful false content. its anti islam 🙂
Thats is exactly the reason why he will chose you to live with…. he will die without committing suicide no religion gets violated. STUPID
And what if when you get to know him you find out that he is an abusive man or in general not compatible with you?
The couple must date so they get to know each other. The rule of thumb is that you have to spend at least 500 hours together alone. This does not count the time you are together in a gathering of friends, because it public people behave differently. Dating does not mean having sex. It means interviewing each other for the most important contract in your life.
There is no such thing as Jihad-e-Akbar. This is a false belief based on a forged hadith.
The idea that their is a greater and lesser jihad originated from the 11th century book, The History of Baghdad, by the Islamic scholar al-Khatib al-Baghdadiis, by way of Yahya ibn al 'Ala', who said,
We were told by Layth, on the authority of 'Ata', on the authority of Abu Rabah, on the authority of Jabir, who said, 'The Prophet (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam) returned from one of his battles, and thereupon told us, 'You have arrived with an excellent arrival, you have come from the Lesser Jihad to the Greater Jihad – the striving of a servant (of Allah) against his desires.
For more please see this http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Fabricated_Hadi…
A parrot can be hafiz too and fly to mecca, you know.
Okay, do you like camel?
U guys have some problem with logic ….. what if i tell u that i am a hafiz and had performed umrah too will you believe me.
Who said i hate you so much. i just say my jew friend is better than you. He wished me jumma mubarak, happy ramadan, etc
No hes a religious jew. suicide is haram in judaism too 😉
He must be sucidal
Better than pedophile atleast,
And why is that why do you hate me so much Aryan Hindu made a smart move, u fool now we all can see the hate u were hiding from us. Hats off to Einstein he again proved himself right .
Beastiality x'D
The jew himself 😉
Rather I will bye myself a sweet little poodle dog as a pet … This would be better but THANKYOU
And who said a Jew would want to live with you? Jews are not known to be stupid.
:'/ *touched* *nods*
Lololol id rather live with a jew than with a murtad
Okay you may enter dajjals heaven door. when you open the door you see heaven, when you enter it, its actually hell x'D
Mr Jonatan Harel. Hm. *writes the name* thanks for your info! 😉
All love start with fight(See Bollywood movies for proof !!). I hope beautiful narcole marries handsome galileo davinci and they will have lot of Kaffir kids like Sambhaji……Insha Allah <3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AzlT0X7FHM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambhaji
Means you dont know much. You only google when you have the keywords. If you dont have keywords, you wont find the answer unless by accident 🙂 you have nothing stored in your head yet 😉
In which sect? 😉
Ok man Ali Sina you wanna be aithest be it but why insult a man's religion this site seems to be designed to insult Islam. Come on not all of them are bad chaps.
Poor Muslim chaps poor buggers insulting their religion many of their feelings must be hurt you know by doing this no wonder they must hate you. How shameful and vile attitude like a school yard bully attitude insulting everyone.
What is Jihad-e-Akbar ? Go ask your shiekh
I can only be tested logically which u dont have any thing else can easily be found on internet.
Akhir is better than awal. some one can be born as a believer but die as non believer, and someone born as non believer can die as believer.
Do you think bad people should live together with good people, and let the bad people hurt the good people always?
Lol okay. So no problem 😉
Answer to this stupid question is that i myself is not a vegetarian now u guess from your intelligence the moral of the story posted above.
Yep, thats why i chose not to date. no ♥ until aqad. im waiting for him to be ready as a good husband. marriage needs preparation.
Dear Gracy …… Who created hell ? Why ?
Dear Gracy …. If Christianity is true why you were given a chance to be born in Christianity and I in Pagan Hinduism? Before my intelligence is fully grown my identity a a Hindu got confirmed.
I have no plan to change that as of now.
I cannot break off from Hinduism without hurting my relatives.
It' so easy for you and so difficult for me ?
Here, use your logic. reincarnation cant happen in this world, cos this world has ajal too. Means it has an end.
@Ali Sina…There is a chance that you may change your stand om 'karma'. reincarnation and karma go hand in hand in Hinduism.
Lol, im semi vegetarian, and was a vegetarian. i eat fish, and no chicken, and rarely meat. first, cos fish is very good as nutrition, and eating lots of meat isnt good cos its acidic. I like fruits and vegies, and hate the smell of animals, but my fmily, and people, and health expert often suggest me to eat meat sometimes, for good nutrition, cos i get weak if no meat at all. even some of cats are semi vegetarians too, but they have, they must eat meat, or they will be blind. Cos their bodies need nutritions from meat too. if u blame humans who eat meat, but u have beloved pets that need meat, what then you'll do?
I love you Agracean…..and I hate to see you making yourself an idiot here.
Its funny a kafir says he knows more about someones religion. your a kafir, not a sheikh, nor my sheikh. Did you do hajj already? Let me test u, if you know islam better 😉
Dear Gracy……I am ready to come to Jesus's heaven on one condition. I will take the Idol Kali Ma with me and worship her in heaven . if Jesus accepts the condition, I am in. B) http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tg42ArcfTzU/TK8wX5M6NEI… http://www.elfwood.com/~vinnie/Kali-Ma.3341728.ht…
Einsten easily changed mind 😉
What will i get if listen? What can you offer than my gods offer? Lets compare…;)
Lol who told me to hunt you down….lol just ur feeling..paranoia
U have a Bf ? how can u call your self a good Muslim. This happens to every one .
do u know punishment of having any relation with Namahram without marriage, it can be from 100 lashes to Sangsar.
Lol you dont know the meaning of jihad. Learning and teaching is jihad, doing shadaqah is jihad, not being beggar is jihad, having good marriage is jihad, avoid zina is jihad. idk why you just know war and kill.
@ all my infidel friends, here's a very funny video (song) on islamic jihad u can enjoy: 😀
[youtube A7ob_xMuPbk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ob_xMuPbk youtube]
Lol who said so? my aunty and my bf read too…spying 😉
Guess what U know nothing about your religion u dont even know what is shirk..!
No they are not illusions. We make our own reality there based on our beliefs. So it is possible that a person who believes in Muhammad and Ali sees them as holy being there as the Christians see Jesus as a holy being. One Catholic saw Mary in the other word. The truth is that according to the Gospels Mary did not become a follower of her son.
As I understand, we make our own reality there. That also explains why some people who die claim they went to hell. Hell is not consistent with the nature of God who is pure love. But these souls make their own hell.
In the other world we become aware of our actions and the effect that we had on others. Here we fool ourselves, but there, this is not possible. If you have hurt someone you feel that hurt. So you become aware of what you did. Based on that you judge yourself and know where you belong. I say the fire of hell is the fire of remorse. And I believe when we think we have suffered enough and paid our due, we will get out of that hell and move towards God and his love. We can't do that while we feel so guilty and filthy of sin.
you are suppose to find Me and Ali and hunt us down ,death penalty for apostasy is in accordance with Islam how can we still believe that your religion is telling u to love us and hunt us down altogether.
knowTheEnemy …. I think if somebody takes god,spirituality seriously and uses logic ,reason…..it is highly likely that he will end up in some sort of Hinduism….Just like the western new age movement. About the Vedic quotes I quoted them from http://www.agniveer website. I liked them.
Your mother's NDE is yet another verifiable case. Most NDE are not verifiable because soul travels to the next world. But when a clinically dead person sees and hears things in this world that others can verify, no amount of skeptic's rationalizations can explain it. These verifiable cases are proof positive that consciousness survive the death.
Thats not what i was talking about. me and my bf used to experience that which we call resonance. like, when he thinks of me, i think of him too. thats resonance. when one object vibrating at the same natural frequency of a second object forces that second object into vibrational motion. and about dreams, its alam ghaib where sleeping persons soul could meet dead persons soul in alam ruh. i was talking about my sudden secret wishes. And unexpected persons suddenly bring exactly what i crave. its like, for example, i havent finished talking in heart, but the thing is already ready. Even without preparation. If you order junk food, you even have to wait. its as if all has been set just in time. and it happens often. and get more often, if the more listen to god. But if i become bad, its slow. the more religious, the faster mustajab.
He brought you here so that you can listen him from us …. but you dont want to listen
why are u here listening against mo and ALLAH from infidels and talking with Na mahrams this too is haram allah will send to jahannum
KnowTheEnemy got it correctly . I was not asking u to convert to Hinduism ,but just stick with truth no matter what.
@Narcole
“he asked me to do jihad. he also asked me to love humans ”
Do you know what is the meaning of Jihad? It means fighting and killing non Muslims. How then can love humans?
Muslims really don’t know their religion. You can’t love people and kill them at the same time because they are not Muslim.
Hahaha u really are stupid and Einstein was right.
Hold on there the cheap old trick wont do it to me.
First of all I am very much satisfied with my life and am a very successful man I don't need to prove it here . And I am not as weak as you consider I am very much strong not just physically,mentally and in my social status that I can easily stand with my decision among with wild people like muslims and survive easily. As for my knowledge in Islam don't challenge it or else you will force me to start my own blog than you will find about more cultist findings which ALI could not pointed . The only thing which brought change in me was love for life not just humans but all living creatures and u simply cannot understand this, U enjoy killing animals in the name of god and when a vegetarian asks Zakir Naik why dont you stop killng animals and become a vegetarian the only stupid logic he could come up with was that we have Canines so we cant stop killing animals. Canines are given by nature to carnivorous animals in order to to kill its prey and not to eat it tell Zakir try killing his goat or a cow with his canines. I am sure he will get killed if he attempts so why don't you do what canines are used for by wild animal in nature. our canines are not strong enough for this purpose in other words they are useless. and I want to add one more thing their is a animal known as Panda I know u must have heard of it some where, for your kind information they too have canines but guess what? they are vegetarian peace loving animals. And this logic is totally mine I don't know any one has come up with some thing better or not. OH God you people are so stupid..
This is a frequent occurrence and it even has a name. It is called premonition and it happens to everyone. Some 15 years ago I wrote an article on Islam and posted it on a Yahoo club. The owner of the club asked me to stay and write more. This was the begging of my anti Islam activity and a turning moment in my life. I lost contact with this person and it is not that I usually think of him. But recently his thought came to me and as I sat in front of my computer to check my mail I found his email. He had contacted me after 15 years.
Everybody has stories like this and it just shows that our consciousness is not bound by time and space. So it is very possible for us to perceive things that have not yet happened.
Yesterday I was chatting with my sister who has become very interested in NDE after I sent her a few videos to watch. She said many years ago when she was young and traveling through Pakistan with my mother, she dreamed of our great grand mother who was in Iran. She told her, "tell your mom to give me my $300 dollars." She said when I told this dream to our mother, she went pale. She had pledged (made a nadr) to give $300 dollars to the poor when her grandmother passes away. She had not told this to anyone and when my sister had that dream in Pakistan, they did not know yet that our great grand mother had passed away that day.
Are all these coincidences?
Well its clear now. U left islam cos ur not satisfied with your life and hardships. dont act as if ur the one whos been thru huricanes. everybody gets hurt, everybody hurts, sometimes. everythings created in pair, easiness in hardhip, light and dark, joy and sorrow. ur not the only one whos been in tough times. But not many realized that on the opposite coast of sadness, there something called a smile is waiting. fa inna ma3al usri yusran. iv told many times, i went here bcos of my love of islam and knowledge. i went here cos i thought this was islamic site. blame sina for writing "everything you need to know about islam". well it seems you dont know much, thats why im here. Helping you to get to know directly from a moslem, with original islamic teaching 😉
No one is listening u It is just you who is fooling your self love us love humans first and if god really is there he will love u for that.
The reason u are here is that u have already started to doubt islam or else u wont be simply staying here for long and listen to us for no good reason. U are acting like a child who has been told that santa clause dont exist it is normal but at-least be rational. It doesnt matter whats is your sect at all but it makes it even worse for u people and leads to even more crime and evil in this world. I was mildly injured in a blast in imambargha but i was lucky to survive and for those who died i consider people like you responsibe. I have seen people dying blood shed i have picked up dead bodies you have not you just want to live in your wonderland of delusion. Wake up world is real and people are killing people and people like you are supporting this evil.
What psychic has to do with my secret cravings? psychics gain informations from jins qarin of visitors. So explain how my secrets cravings granted. If you think thats from probability, then why so often? and why my sheikhs wishes get granted so fast too.
Lol hitlers death was from determined ajal. here the rule. if tomorrow is my ajal, wherever i try to run or escape, ill still could die tomorrow, even just by a fly, mosquito, or laugh. but if tomorrow isnt my ajal, no matter how big disasters that will come, ill still be alive.
Oh jesus ….. whats wrong with you.. there is no such thing as ajal or heart whisper happening just to muslims their are so many psychics in the west and they are not muslims if u are a psychic it has nothing to do with your religion. There is something wrong in your head …. and hitler survied not because of efforts in most of the cases it was his luck or your ALLAH for sure, go read it your self I am not wasting time on it any more.
I rarely make specific du3a..like, god, i want this thing so bad, please give it. nope. i learned from past. god granted my specific du3a, and after its granted, i regretted asking for it. i felt i should have asked something else. then its granted again, then i regretted. i felt should have asked something else better than this, and so on. until istop making specific du3a, and only ask whats the best, evnthough i dislike it. Cos there somethings that we want or like, but actually not good. so im more careful in making du3a. since i rarely ask directly to god specific things, but why when my heart whispers something secretly, then the thing comes? and this happens so often. why? cos god listens. of course after i listen to him too.
Why would i purchase lottery…its haram lol
The rule is so simple. listen to him, then he'll listen to you.
I know NDE is real. My mother experienced it first hand, when my relative gave her high blood pressure medicine(amlodipine) for my mother low blood pressure, overdozed (4x higher than normal doze).
She saw us from the ceiling, she saw her body on the bed, she saw whatever we did, she heard whatever we said, she knew everything in great details. i verified what she saw/heard.
So, i don't need someone to tell me that NDE is not real if we can not simulate it in a lab.
Thanks to Mr. Ali Sina, u give me another point of view about how to describe god.
sorry for poor english.
Lots of people fails to understand what is conscience ,conscience travel beyond time,space and causation .What is God then ? ,it is some total of me ,you earth planet ,sun,galaxies , space ,the Universe etc and every other visible thing(matter) .The static reality is its origin but form is its dynamic character .So in that situation it is inside out reality .Truth is one ,when added something it becomes duality .It is again the manifest character of that one without the second .When a circle is drawn on a plain paper ,the sanctity or modesty of that plain paper is ruined.But visibility shows us the existence competitor on that the plain paper .Now the plain paper is divided into two and thus fell in the realm of time space and causation .So matter is the circle on that plain paper which is visible ,therefore this visible world .But it is our effort which will help us to erase that duality and merge again to form the part of that plain paper.I am sorry here there is no scope for hell and heaven .Now baby Narcole ,when your pure conscious at work, your all desires will be fulfilled ,but sorry when identification intervenes nothing will work out for you .For example you purchase a lottery ticket and desires from the bottom of your heart that, the Jack pot may favors you and forget it but ,some time later you will be surprised to see that you really won it.But when next time ,you expect it to happen again ,literally day and night you crave for the Jack pot but it will never happen why?. Don't think that you are the only person ,who? is experiencing this ,every other one is do aware of this phenomena,provided it depends on his pure conscience at work on a particular date.Even that lady Gracy here claims to have such experience .The so called God has nothing to do with it ,it is pure science.This is what Mr.Ali trying to explain it here ,however most of us unable to understand him or either deliberately trying to deviate the flying kite from its usual course ,so pathetic.
What has luck to do with ajal and heart whisper? do you think he survived without efforts? thats not luck. thats from efforts.
Others who? who are suffering? why? cos you just sit there and talk. did you gather money to feed them, did you take care of them? leave my religion? why should i? im very satisfied with my religion, especially my sect. if ur not satisfied with your sect, why pulling me out from light to darkness? What have u got for me? do you feed me, do you listen to me and help me everytime in hardship? no? its always god who accompanies me. and he does respond to me. if he doesnt respond you, blame yourself. Look into the mirror. what have you done?
their were more than 40 documented killing attempts on Hitler in which he survived German people use to consider him immortal he was no muslim it was just his damn luck …. It LUCK thats it
It is not due to your religion leave islam and it wont stop, and if it was due to your religion then why thousands of muslims are dying of hunger commiting suicide and even poisoning their on children due to poverty because they can not see them in hunger and die slowly. Whats wrong with your reasoning you are not the only muslim in the world look around than talk, and you can not simply say that others are paying for their sins first make one thing clear where one is going to pay for his her sins here in this world or in hell . or Both
Oh they happen to everyone? now whats your craving today? did it come just like as you wished in heart from unexpected person after your heart spoke? even many rich people in this world, but to get what they crave in heart, they have to speak up first, or even chase or order.
Im not talking about money. im talking about cravings in heart. how many people who have cravings in heart come true so fast, as if someone hears it?
And these strange things with no explanation they happen to everyone regardless of religion,
Spirituality in my eyes and for me alone is not about having faith on super natural, I don't get amused by any thing which I cannot understand at all either due to ignorance or what so ever reason, It is like saying I don't like watching magic shows because I feel magician are making fool of me and it is so, though I love those Illusionists which trick are minds and play with its limitations. And for me it is spiritual indeed it really helps me understand myself and my limitations. for me spirituality is anything which is everywhere but not in a word of any religious scripture I find it in nest of a bird to the understanding of universe and its laws of physics. AND my spirituality is something which I can explore by my self alone by my own experience and knowledge. For me the most spiritual person alive is Steven Hawking and not any Sadu or a Peer what so ever his spirituality that kept him alive in most difficult physical conditions for 50 years by now more or less his faith in God or not is something which I don't care. He has the better understanding of Universe then any of us here. Many of us may consider him a ignorant man but for me this ignorance is far better than the solution of our ancestors about faith in miracle and supernatural in times where they needed it for them to bear, (I mentioned in a scenario above)
In simple words u and me are having different approaches for the same destination,
And it happens not only to me…but also to most of my sheikhs….my current sheikh has very fast mustajab du3a…and he used to have much faster mustajab granted…but he said, although now still mustajab, in the past way faster…as if no hijab. He said his du3a not as fast as before since he helped a sinner cos pitty…and this happened to me too…i rarely made sins and my du3a granted faster too…very fast. but if i make sins, my du3a granted abit slow… i see many atheists hate god cos thy feel abandoned….but dnt you think their hearts covered by sins…thats why they cant understand?
Sina, can you explain this. Its been so very often, when i was alone, and suddenly theres a thought, from my mind, heart or desire…that…'if only i could get 'this thing' now..and suddenly, in a few minutes, or even in few seconds, i got a call or i got a guest, came and asked whether i wanted 'this thing'…its been too often, and im sure, no one heard it but god. Its not a du3a…just small talk in heart…or just half hoping…but the most things i craved in heart suddenly came so fast, just as i whispered in heart….its granted so fast….just as i desired. Do you think its a coincidence? Oh okay, i know, not many people experienced this. Im not a person who has big hawa nafsu, craving stuff. Cos my parents gave me enough, so im not much into dunia. Im just humble and modest. But why its as if god hears me, and surprises me often after my heart whishes, to show me his existence?
@i am a communist ,
I have made no comment on relative merit of Ali's assertion. If I have show them. I have simply found the fallacious comment you made without specifying a context. Second your later assertions like "having been a doctor does not necessarily make me to forget them. aint't?" are rhetorics, they don't add value to what I have pointed. And the last para is full of Strawmans like "science is for learned and wise. not for you persons.". I don't have to go about describing my competencies. You simply seem upset that your fallacious statement has been caught. Note that I haven't commented about your opinions about Ali Sina per se.
Hi Mr Marathon15, thanks for your 'golden advice'. I've no interest or whatsoever in Richard Dawkin's son at all. You may keep him for yourself. You might be happy to know that I love only 2 human beings here, in this virtual world – my dear Iranian hero, Ms Dr Ali Sina, and that heartless web administrator, Mr Jonathan Harrel. Don't you think that they are worthy of my love and admiration? 😉
Mr Aryan Hindu, you're absolutely wrong to say that my dearest Ms Dr Ali Sina is a pagan like you. I'm puzzled why do you want to go to hell and not Heaven? Choose Heaven, for goodness sake!
Yes
hello brother nizamuddin, r u from india? asking just out of curiosity.
@knowTheEnemy
//The only question is what does the author of Yajurved mean by 'faith'. faith in what? I am assuming he means faith that Vedas are 'truth'.//
The Vedas don't call themselves 'The Veda'. The faith here relates to the faith in Brahman, the absolute reality, the God, if we may use the term loosely.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, it looks like you have deleted some of my love comments here. Does reincarnation really make sense to a smart and wise man like you? What's the point and purpose of souls returning to earth over and over again to gain more experience? Experience what? More joy or pain or suffering or sorrows due to human stupidity? The earth is dying slowing everyday, due to human stupidity and we knew that very well. Try asking every human being on earth if they liked the idea of returning to this dying earth, going through all the madness of the world again and again. The absolute truth is that we only lived once on this planet earth and we will never pass this way again. So, your work here is a good example of what the Golden Rule is all about. Love ya. <3
Mr Aryan Hindu, your sri Krishna has no godly principles and rules at all, that's why he can do whatever he please to every whims and fancy.
Mr Aryan Hindu, check your facts first before you accuse Jesus.
No it is not cancelled. I decided to give priority to my other book The Life of Muhammad under the Light of Reason, which examines the canonical books of biography of Muhammad and separates facts from fiction.
@ ali, i remember u wrote a article regarding yr plan 2 write a new book on refuting around a 100 or so islamic myths/claims under the heading ''ideas for a new book''. how much have u progressed? or have u cancelled the plan for writing that book?
'' Maybe He is bored and needs some fun.''
all right, now u r speaking like muslims. this is an islamic theory for the creation of human beings (and quite q silly one too). anger, boredom, joy etc are human emotions, and cannot be attributed to god. i remember having read articles regarding this foolish islamic theory in FFI, and now u r repeating this nonsense. i cannot believe that its coming out of you.
she must be the godmother of mo then. he emulated all her doings and screwed up the heads of those poor jews in his neighborhood.
you have committed two fallacies at the same time dear chuck
one: straw man argument. in aa different context classical physics includes relativity also. so ali is right about quantum physics and relativity and he is competent to unify them.
two: argument ad hominem. you do not know about physsics yourself so ali knows better. you have no authority to question his competence.
the matter is i know that classical physics includes relativity also but i talked in the other context. and i became this not by chance dear. you know we indian brutes are taught all things in our school days and physics is one among them. i know physics better even now. we have been taught all aspects of physics in our secondary school days. having been a doctor does not necessarily make me to forget them. aint't? (this has nothing to do with anything but i topped my school and edu. district. that does nt matter. but you called me an ignorant one so i answered this.)
you must have asked ali to mind his business on physics as he did not know anything. that can be seen by you very well. instead yuou tell me to. i am not the one to have brought physics here dear. i know this is not a place to talk about science. science is for learned and wise. not for you persons.
You make multiple points in your post, and I am glad you are talking frankly. I can only tell you what I have seen to be the case-
"PEER KAMIL KEY YAKEEN KAMIL"
I know the answer to this one! There are two different kinds of God-
One of them is REAL [PEER KAMIL], and this God is Consciousness (Exactly what Ali Sina is talking about in this article, the previous one, and in his comments). The Upanishads call this God 'Brahman' (sometimes called 'Self' or 'supreme Self') or 'Omkar" (Sikhs call it 'Onkar'). However, you don't 'worship' this God. Instead you 'realize' this God. Basically this God is the domain of academics and philosophers. You must have heard phrases (usually Sufi) like "God lives within us"; it is this God that lives within us. There is nothing that you do with this God except try to realize it!
The other one is YAKEEN KAMIL. Is this God real? No! Is there any benefit to believing in this God? Yes! And that's why they call this God a 'personal' God. This personal God fits in the category of Arts. [From here on when I say God I would only be talking about this personal God.]
Now you must be thinking why should one believe in a God who only exists because people have faith in Him/Her? You also said "But still for no good reason we don't want to leave are stone age faith behind. I don't know why?"
The answer to both these questions is: Because of human psychology! You mentioned that humans have advanced a lot in the last century and will advance further, but guess what? One thing has not changed AT ALL – human psychology! Our psychology is 99.9% as it was 1000 years ago. We still laugh, love, hate, get angry, feel happy, sad, get euphoric or depressed, get sexually aroused, drink beer to get high 🙂 , feel things about our body and our position in society etc etc. And if you were Punjabi you would feel the need to take panga with someone every other day 😉 . Human psychology is the reason why people feel the need to believe in a God!
["If religion is so necessary for us as now I can feel that it is indeed, why cant we make it which is more consistent with science and modern life and which could be modified as with the need of time"]
The first thing to realize is that 'religion' and God are two different things. Religion simply means 'a set of rules to live by'. It is a different matter that people live by certain set of rules because they think the rules were 'revealed' by God, or prophets, or high Gurus. But a religion does NOT have to have a God. Buddhism for example, is a *religion* with no God!
What this means is that you can make a set of rules for yourself from scratch and by yourself! Of course, it would be wise to keep these rules flexible in case you ever have to change them.
Personal God on the other hand is a completely different story. First of all it is not necessary to believe in God, but for reasons of psychology I believe it is better if people do believe in one, as long as they refrain from extreme blind belief/faith.
Ok so now that we know that any 'personal' God that we believe in, is going to be a fictional God, the next question is which God to believe in? You believe in a God who will make you calm, will take away your fears and anxities, will give you peace of mind, and overall make you an emotionally strong person. You will not feel like an orphan when you believe in this God. Also, it will be easier to raise your children telling them about this God, and if the God is the right God, they will not become blind believers when they grow up.
I have a fairly good understanding of psychology, so I knew exactly what to look for in God and was able to find one from the already existing ones (It turned out to be one of Hindu God). You too can study psychology (if you prefer) and then create/design your own God! If OTOH you don't want to go through the trouble, I can can give you a Internet link to this God's picture, and explain to you exactly why this God meets the criteria to be a perfect personal God!
I just got convinced by reading ALI's articles and that was enough, And U are right about death penalty for apostasy and all the social problems which I am very well aware of, after all faith is very personal and i have no good reason to advertise it as long as i don't lose my sanity and get suicidal feelings I know I am safe and the fact is that muslims are not as religious as they claim to be it is just a deception created by them on rest of the world. AND they are Hippocrates what they say and what they do are two extreme opposites .
But now i know it is not them but their faith which made them the way they are. as if i can change than any one can,
I never said it will be an easy journey for me but i know i can manage it very well the only thing which bothers me is my own peace of mind that's it,
I agree to what ever u say but ironically last few phrases does not fit to my case I am a descendant of MO but don't want to respect him what so ever. other than that I have no rebuttals for what u have said and it seems to be a good advise from a sincere a friend.
I also want to add something over here, their is a saying popular in my country among Sindhi people: " PEER KAMIL KEY YAKEEN KAMIL" I would want to translate it the best i can …… " What is more real your GOD or the FAITH in God which makes it God"
For me the fact is that god can never be proven it is only the faith of a human which makes GOD real for the believers. And faith is blind, I may not be able to convince many people over here but what I say now is something which should never be forgotten it is us humans who gave GOD an Identity it is us (HUMANS) who wrote religious scriptures and many of them are like as old as 3000 years or more. Humans have evolved so much in last 50 years that everything other than religion has changed. We have cell phones, computers, Internet and some much . Yet we follow the faith and scriptures which cannot fit the life we live today in other words obsolete.
Its is like trying to wear dress which your Mom bought for u on your 10th bday,
Why cant we leave behind everything and rewrite every rule in the book from scratch, for me existing religions are not practical any more. Can any of us really think of himself living how are ancestors lived without TV,Cellphone,GPS. Satellite,and believing the world is flat . The answer I assume would be NO because we cant. But still for no good reason we don't want to leave are stone age faith behind. I don't know why? Maybe the time has come because many of us have started thinking of doing so by now its time to say goodbye and we wont commit any crime by doing so no one will be disrespected neither our ancestors, or else it will turn whole world in to Atheist and God will no longer be their. Why cant we do what are ancestors have already done before.
If religion is so necessary for us and now I can feel that it is indeed, why cant we make it which is more consistent with science and modern life and which could be modified as with the need of time, Just like LAW or legal system but not for the purpose of judgement and verdict. Just for the reason that we humans need it. Like art and music. We dont need a revolutionary religion we need the one which can adopt evolution,
Maybe we are waiting for another prophet form God . Trust me there never was a prophet form God and it will never be . It was always a human like us who wrote religious scriptures and created religion for our ease.
This is how I feel.
I know what you mean! I am not sure if Aryan was "inviting" you to Hinduism. There is no such thing as "inviting someone to Hinduism". The concept of dawa only exists in Islam and Christianity. It does not exist in eastern religions.
Before we try to speculate on what Aryan was doing, let's figure out what 'religion' means. 'Religion' simply means a set of rules to live by! Islam, Christianity, and even Sikhism to some extent have corrupted the concept of religion, and have made it more like membership clubs. Christians and Muslims get plus points from their respective God for bringing in more members. Sikhs stay in their membership club simply out of a strong sense of loyalty.
I believe Aryan meant to say that he knows of a certain 'rule to live by' and he was giving credit to the source where he found that rule. (But as I said in my earlier post, his translation is inaccurate)
I strive to live by the same set of rules as mentioned by Aryan Hindu because I agree with what they are saying. However I did not find those rules in some 'holy' books. I found them here in Ali Sina's articles! Does that mean I have register myself in the 'Sina-ism' club? No! I believe whatever I want and I included these rules in my personal 'religion'. I do however give credit to Ali for those rules, as I should!
I hate some scientists, but that doesn't stop them from being right in the conclusions of their researches.
Well there are multiple things that I have to say-
1) The verses quoted by Aryan are not accurate. The verses either do not say what Aryan quoted, and they are distorted and taken out of context! Wherever Aryan got them from, those people are using deception. And I hate it when Hindus do that!
2) Hinduism is not like Islam. In Hinduism you can cherry-pick whatever you find useful. Heck you can claim that you believe in a certain verse or mantra and still call yourself an Atheist (lol). I am not joking! A lot of people abuse this freedom. Of course, a wise person would spend time contemplating about things before deciding to accept or reject verses and mantras.
What that means is that even if Aryan had posted the verses accurately and you agreed with them, you could follow them without calling yourself a 'Hindu'. You do not automatically become a member of Hindu 'religion' simply because you follow one or more things from Hindu scriptures. So if you agree with the verse/mantra then follow it, if you don't then don't follow it. In either case you do not need to consider yourself a member of Hindu religion or any other religion.
3) The word Hindu was devised by Persians over 2000 years ago. Everyone who lived around river Indus and to the east of it, and followed indigenous culture, the Persians called them 'Hindu'. It means that every Pakistani who does not believe in Islam or Christianity is also 'Hindu'. Hinduism is NOT a religion, and those who believe it is, only inaccurately believe so. Believing in Vedas, or any other books has nothing to do with being Hindu.
4) Regarding Vedas: I have studied early Indian history, and have also read small parts of Vedas, though I am not an expert. My understanding is that Vedas are almost strictly pagan books. They talk about different gods e.g fire god, wind god, Sun god, etc, and have verses in them that priests used to chant for various pagan rituals. There is negligible higher philosophy in the Vedas. The higher philosophy did not come about until priests began to write Upanishads. There are plenty of different Upanishads and the more popular ones talk about the same things that Ali Sina has been writing lately.
So what good are the Vedas today? I believe they are good for very few things, eg studying ancient Indian history and anthropology, and for priests to have something to chant about during Hindu rituals (I know it sounds funny but that's the fact)! That does not mean however that I disrespect Vedas. But the only reason why I respect them is because the people who wrote Upanishads grew up in a Vedic society. It is like if you are more educated than your parents, you still respect them because if it was not for them and their efforts, you and your higher education would not be here either.
There is no Karmic law. Souls return to acquire more experience. Good spirits and bad spirits are all part of God, in the same way that clean water and fetid water are all from the ocean. No one can tell you why God created the world. Maybe He is bored and needs some fun. We can’t know what is in the mind of God. God did not create the souls. Souls are a part of him. So it makes no sense that he punishes his own pits and pieces.
God is consciousness. Consciousness is the most complex form of energy. Each soul is a part of that consciousness. Even the material world is energy. So everything is being imagined in the mind of God. Our body is a figment of God’s imagination and our soul is a part of his consciousness. God is having a wakeful dream and we are his dream.
That is what I have understood so far. But don’t quote me. I may change my mind if I learn something that makes more sense.
If some tells me that bible and Jesus is all u need in life I will take it as an invitation to Christianity. The fact is that I have been living with Muslims in my surrounding for ever and they play all these trick (I am not blaming any one else here) but their ultimate mission is to increase the population of cult and that's the reason I may perceive others wrong here but it is not my fault it because this is for the first time the Alice has left wonderland and she thinks the rest of the world is as wonderful as her delusional world.
Or i may have conceived it wrongly.
I think that is quite simple and easy to understand. The only question is what does the author of Yajurved mean by 'faith'. faith in what? I am assuming he means faith that Vedas are 'truth'. If my assumption is correct then the meaning of verse becomes completely different from what Aryan wrote!
No i dont think so because he made it very clear what he means by saying;These Yajur Veda Mantras are the only RELIGIONS U NEED IN YOUR LIFE;
Than as a proof to convince me he quoted those verses.
I am not an ignorant fool any more to refuse any thing from any where no matter what religious scripture it comes from as long as they are not against humanity or logic.
Why is reincarnation necessary ? Only God knows. It seems that He is implementing His karmic Law on earth too.
Why some people were born blind or cripple ? Had they committed evils in their past lives ?
Why many people were born in war-torn countries and suffered the consequences ? What are their sins ?
Why God gave us a violent earth where the unlucky ones are suffering from the accompanying natural disasters ? Were they the evil ones in their past lives ?
Buddhism seems to be able to give answers to these questions. Anyway, the maxim that " you reap what you and your ancestors had sow " seem to be true.
Is God conducting an experiment with the human souls on earth so that He can reap the good spirits to go to heaven to be with Him ?
hi Agracean, we should find people to love in real life. This virtual world is deceptive and cannot be depended on. Real life is very different. You might know that I too dont believe in reincarnation. I have no beliefs of any kind. Young people in America are going that way. "non-religious" is the fastest growing group in the USA and for a reason. Good luck. Maybe you will find a new hero. I suggest you write to Richard Dawkins to give you his son's telephone number. I dont know if he has one or not.
Agra, you probably now regret saying that after you found out that Ali believes in reincarnation, which you think is a "nonsense" (quoting you). And if I was that, you would be the by-product of the intestines.
He will but also I bet lots of links are broken now in any case. Links break all the time. Looks like now they dont even have a Links page on their new site (richard dawkins . net)
Thanks!
I am afraid Aryan's translations are incorrect and heavily distorted. Hindus should not indulge in such deceitful tactics. It only damages the credibility.
I think what Aryan meant was that the stuff written in those verses is all one needs for guidance, even if it was written somewhere other than Yajurved!
@knowTheEnemy,
May be you are looking in the Taitiriya Samhita. This is from (although I don't agree with the translation) Shukla Yajurveda..
@i am a communist
//but dont you think you are going too much to educate the physicists about quantum theory. (FYKI classical physics is newtonian physics and not general relativity). //
Foolish. Classical Physics is determined by the context. In the context of Relativity, Classical Physics is what we call Newtonian Physics and in the context of Quantum Mechanics it includes special/general Relativity. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_physics
You know what, you speak more than you know about, which I understand isn’t much.
Dear Aryan…..and I really don't understand why a woman should buy a pig just for one sausage
Krishn has no enemies. Anyone who thinks he is Krishn's enemy, or vice-versa, is himself deluded. It is his own delusion that keeps him from having peace!
The fact is that no one can undo the damage done by him in a single span of life.
It very well can be true. If reincarnation is true then no possibility can be ruled out!
Arayan hindu
I respect u n love u, but not for the reason what you are or what faith you have. I really hope for the rest of us to be the same and I believe that one should not bound himself within the limitations of any religion and let his or her reason, observation and intuition decide own spiritual realm so no one else will be to blame and will help to grow our thoughts here I endorse what Ali Sina said ; Be your own prophet. for me it sounds very true and sane. I don't find any spirituality in a thought of being a follower. Believers limit their thoughts and let their religion prevail, we are all different and unique and what makes us humans is the fact that we can think beyond the limits of sight and invent, develop and evolve at a level which no other known creature can.I have evolved myself alot only after setting my self free from the limits of a religion in a matter of days and already can see the positive change in me. We have perfect examples from past of people who have done it before and have produced enormous results like Einstein and Newton they had their own views of religion and spirituality look how much they contributed in making us today what we are. So be yourself and you will always be right If follow others you will never find that light or get enlightenment. The method which worked for others may not work for you we dont need any one to tell us what is right or wrong our consciousnesses can easily differentiate among them for that reason I have said be yourself and you will always be right…So as far as your proposal of RELIGION based on yajur vedas and mantras I will say thanks but it is not for me.
["Since birth he sleeps day and night and very rarely wakes up to breastfeed from his mother. Due to this the mother fell sick and died because of the accumulation of unfed breast milk."]
I stopped reading the story right there! It wasn't narrated by a pious old man, it was narrated by a senile old man!
well… what kind of God do you want protecting you? A powerful, ferocious God, or some chicken god??
That is a great qawwali. I have trouble with urdu words but I found lyrics on youtube.The qawwali beautifully explains the trouble that people go through to 'find God'. (That is, people who are not blind believers.)
Hmm… I grew up drinking buffalo milk, maybe that's why I can only understand simple things.
But then I am thinking, if a buffalo-milk drinking simple guy like me can figure out in no time that Islam is crap then others should have no trouble at all. But for whatever reason Muslims just can't see how they wrecking this world.
If you were not so full of hate and anger, you too would improve your life by accepting good things from everywhere and ditching the harmful ones. Ok, you don't like Hinduism, but if you know Hindi, listen to this speech (till the end). The guy giving the speech is a follower of Sant Nirankari Sikh sect. He explains an incredibly easy technique to rid your heart of hate-
Vivek Shauq's last speech (spiritual)
narcole1919721 …………….What will you do when your husband enjoys with 72 virgins. Join us .Hrithik Roshan will be waiting for u in hell. http://www.yesindia.in/agneepath-worldwide-releas…
I love Pakistani Ex-Muslims
That would be Kali .The mother Godess. Be her child ,you are safe…
hi GallelioDAvinci
These Yajur Veda Mantras are the only religions u need in your like.
Yajurved 1.5
– All human beings should resolve to accept only truth and reject the falsehood. Even the prayer to
Supreme should request only eradication of falsehood and embrace of truth alone.
Yajurved 19.30
– When one resolves to adhere to truth, she becomes eligible for bliss and truth. When she becomes eligible, she starts getting rewards in form of knowledge and satisfaction. Such rewards strengthen the resolve and enhance the faith towards pursuit of truth. As the faith enhances, so does the bliss and knowledge one gets. And eventually this leads to ultimate bliss or Salvation.
Dear Gracy…..I really don't understand how a women who gives milk to child the same way a cow feeds us with milk. The Hindu saying of seeing cow as mother is logical,scientific and apt…
Yajurved 1.5
– All human beings should resolve to accept only truth and reject the falsehood. Even the prayer to Supreme should request only eradication of falsehood and embrace of truth alone.
Yajurved 19.30
– When one resolves to adhere to truth, she becomes eligible for bliss and truth. When she becomes eligible, she starts getting rewards in form of knowledge and satisfaction. Such rewards strengthen the resolve and enhance the faith towards pursuit of truth. As the faith enhances, so does the bliss and knowledge one gets. And eventually this leads to ultimate bliss or Salvation.
the only religion I believe…
Yajurved 19.77
– All humans at all times should have passion only for adoption of truth and rejection of falsehood. This should be a continuous process and one should keep detaching faith from what one discovers to be false and keep attaching faith to what one discovers to be true based on analysis, logic, facts and evidence.
Is it possible that Muhammad suffered in hell for 1400 years for his cruelty. He felt ashamed of himself's. He cried to god to give him a chance to undo his damage…. god gave him a chance…..Ali Sina was born !!!!!
The exact opposite of Muhammad .Is that possible ?
I was joking xD
Lol, for a long time?
hmm… I wonder how much fun sadam and usama must be having in paradise as they truly had faith in your Allah… I can imagine them having classes of wine in there hands with virgins sitting on their laps ….
Too long to read. Whats the point of it? I was only here to talk to Ali about the OBE stuff in any case. And Science is mis-spelled, so its probably not worth reading in any case.
Mo's infinite stupidity and cultist attitude which got transferred from Follower after follower or let say it infected one after another like a virus and started what can be called "Mombie Apocalypse" and today we can find over billion carriers of this deadly virus. You are the perfect Specimen.. And you need to be treated we have the cure for u my dear friend I offer it for free. SAVE MANKIND LEAVE THE CULT 🙂
Lol now its random. Splitting comments into parts. why cant just post one full long comment?
There are many springs that flows through the heights and the lands of Tabariyyah (Sea of Galilee). You are banned from entering Makkah. You cannot enter Uhud because Mount Uhud loves Allah, and Allah loves it back. You are also banned from entering the Quds the land of Isra’ and Mi’raj. These are the knowledge of Allah written by Jibraeel (bringer of Revelations) – Amin Al-Wahy and Jibraeel has left you a ring.”
<< these are remiders of consquences if/when Dajjal chose heedlessness, these are also information revealed unto him that will be discussed with Tamim Al-Dari r.a. Another comment, it is clearly evident that Allah gives His subjects free will in whatever destiny one chooses but with plenty of reminders of its consequences >>
So the Dajjal child found that beside the seventh stone, he found a piece of stone with beautiful colors. It turns out the colors came from special dust used by Jibraeel to write on the stones. On that particular stone is inscribed:
ﻭَﻣﺎ ﻛُﻨّﺎ ﻣُﻌَﺬِّﺑﻴﻦَ ﺣَﺘّﻰٰ ﻧَﺒﻌَﺚَ ﺭَﺳﻮﻟًﺎ ﴿١٥ We never chastise, until We send forth a Messenger
(Surah Al-Isra’)
It is clear that the Heavenly dust did not come from anywhere on earth, Only Allah knows where it came from.
The Jassasah explained the inscription on the stone, and that he will be given the freedom of choice between,
submission to Allah or stay heedless.
<<This choice will ultimately decide his fate for the rest of his life.>>
Two possible outcome:
– If he choose to submit to Allah, he will become a normal person and one day become a good king.
– If he does not submit to Allah and choose to become heedless, he will one day declare himself as God with a power and dominion over the Shaytans and Jinns world. He will also eventually rule over the world of mankind.
However that rule will be shortlived. Verily, Allah is All-knowing in everything, nobody knows the end of anything except for Allah.
Then the boy asked the Jassasah, “In that case, who are you really? Why did you come here? And who taught to speak like a human?”
It replied:
“I am but a beast who have been created and tasked to be with you. I am assigned to watch over you while Jibraeel is not around. I will live with you on this island until you finally make your life choices. My fate ends here on this island once you go out of the island with your choice.”
“There will be times when I speak to you of things of the Unseen that no other have known. Know this, what I tell you comes from the Angel Jibraeel.”
Then suddenly the beast became mum. The word Jassasah means one who is constantly spying. And so that’s what it does, always looking for more news to tell the child. All the news relayed to the child is astonishing and serves specific purposes.
Thus, the stage has been set to see whether this child will pass the test set by Allah.
Oops forgot to post this
There are more lessons taught by the Jassasah at the seven writing stones.
Before we continue, let’s see what more does the Jassasah was assigned to tell Dajjal, this by far is the most
important topic if you want to comprehend the state of Dajjal’s heart which Sheikh Imran Hosein points out to the narration from Rasulullah sollallahu alaihi wasallam about Dajjal‘s blind right eye (the most essential key towards understanding of the last age, so important without it, you are most likely fall prey and be misguided) as a state of eternal internal/spiritual blindness:
If the heart is painted with the Ar-Rain or Rayn as explained in Surah Al-Muthaffifin:
ﻛَﻠّﺎ ۖ ﺑَﻞ ۜ ﺭﺍﻥَ ﻋَﻠﻰٰ ﻗُﻠﻮﺑِﻬِﻢ ﻣﺎ ﻛﺎﻧﻮﺍ ﻳَﻜﺴِﺒﻮﻥَ ﴿١٤﴾ 14)
14) No indeed; but that they were earning has rusted upon their hearts
ﻛَﻠّﺎ ﺇِﻧَّﻬُﻢ ﻋَﻦ ﺭَﺑِّﻬِﻢ ﻳَﻮﻣَﺌِﺬٍ ﻟَﻤَﺤﺠﻮﺑﻮﻥَ ﴿١٥﴾ 15)
15) No indeed; but upon that day they shall be veiled from their Lord
“When the Light of Allah is totally cut off from your heart, your mind will only see yourself just like Iblis alaihi
laknatullah mind sees, who resides in his throne over the sea and you will become his best ally. How accursed is one to befriend the most accursed who is devoid of any mercy from Allah swt. O’ special child looked after by a great archangel, be a mu’min who believes in Allah and His Angels and His Prophets. If not, you will be in danger and you shall be chained in a prison.
During this imprisonment, those who make you happy will be the Arabs who rejected the true Prophet. His place of Hijra will be at a fertile land with many lush vegetation and many date palms. You will serve deeds the day when the season to pick dates in a land where a Prophet from among the Arabs whom will travel the Isra’ and Mi’raj (Al-Quds).
Ask your prophet he is well versed in it hahaha.
Narcole, for a long time I didn't understand what you mean when you say that we "paraphrase". Now I think you mean something what we call: "Strawman fallacy", that is that you mean that
we say that you said something which you did NOT say.
Is this what you mean with: "You are paraphrasing?"
LOL, ali. when richard dawkins finds out abt your new faith, he will regret putting your website in his book the god delusion.
Hmm azan. Gotta pray. dajjal is a loooong story. and you reminded me of him 🙂 *prays*
During these travels, he has mastered many languages even the written hieroglyphs and many spoken languages around the Tigris and Euphrates (the cradle of civilization back then). After all these travels, there came a time when he became homesick which reminds him of the Island in the Heart of the Yemeni sea. So he returned to the island. Upon reaching the island, like before he looked for the beast – the Jassasah. Initially, the beast was no where to be seen, so he thought the beast must have died. Then he went to check out the area where the seven stones inscriptions are. Surely enough, the beast was there. However, this time round, the beast somehow changed. It does not utter any other words except for; "La Ilaha Illa Allah, Lahu Al-Mulku Wa lahu Al-Hamd, Yuhyi wa Yumitu, wahuwa a'la kulli shay'in qadir"….repeatedly. At first Dajjal was confused, but then he went about his usual thing, the thought of Allah as the One and Only Creator does not make impression to his mind, not even one bit. He then decided to pay a visit to his place of origin – ancient Samirah near Palestine. Things have changed much since his last visit. He found there are people who call themselves As-Samiriyyah / SAMARITANS apparently a mixed tribe between Assyrians and local Jewish people. This tribe was formed after the fall of the Babylonian empire, where many Yahudi (Jews) returned to the Holy Land.Dajjal finds out the old ancient Samirah is now known as Mount Gerizim (Jirzim). These people also started to build temple on top the mountain.Dajjal knew that the Samaritans consider themselves as the true descendants of the Bani Israel of the Exodus and teachings of Prophet Musa alaihi salam. "Samaritans claim their worship is the true religion of the ancient Israelites prior to the Babylonian Exile, preserved by those who remained in the Land of Israel, as opposed to Judaism, which they assert is a related but altered and amended religion brought back by the exiled returnees." [wikipedia: Samaritans] P/s: A little trackback, remember the translation "You Samaritan, what is your business?" when Prophet Musa alaihi salam addressed Al-Samiri. That word 'Samaritan' is an interesting coincidence that since the Dajjal Al-Samiri came from Al-Samiriyah. He then finds out that Prophet Ya'qub (Jacob) alaihi salam, the patriarch of all Ibranis have put up the House of Allah in the Holy Land. He then hears of yet another Prophet, a direct descendant of Prophet Dawud (David) alaihi salam. He is known as the Al-Masih – The Messiah – Isa Son of Mary alaihi salam. This Messiah came to complete the message.(We know how that panned out, don't we? Bani Israel flatly rejected their own Messiah) Dajjal decided to pay a visit to this Messiah….Dajjal decided to pay a visit to this Messiah….
Mr someone, truth will set you free eternally.
Hi phoenixx111, Jesus' golden advice is life and health to your body, soul and spirit. Do feed on it.
========================= After knowing the stern demeanor of our Prophet Musa alaihi salam, what's is the explanation about his calm words when addressing Al-Samiri? Initially he only sought an explanation on what motivates Al-Samiri to cause this great fitnah among the people – of all fitnahs we're are talking about Shirik!?! Think about it…. Notice the chasm of differences in the Prophet's approach to his relative and fellow prophet, as compared to Al- Samiri….He was pulling his beloved relative's head by the beard, and yet only asks questions from Al-Samiri?!? What gives? ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻓَﻤﺎ ﺧَﻄﺒُﻚَ ﻳٰﺴٰﻤِﺮِﻯُّ ﴿٩٥﴾ 95)) 'You' said he (Moses), 'what was your business?' This same words Al-Khatb has been used in the Quran when Prophet Syu'aib was addressing his two daughters; ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻣﺎ ﺧَﻄﺒُﻜُﻤﺎ ۖ ﻗﺎﻟَﺘﺎ ﻻ ﻧَﺴﻘﻰ ﺣَﺘّﻰٰ ﻳُﺼﺪِﺭَ ﺍﻟﺮِّﻋﺎﺀُ ۖ ﻭَﺃَﺑﻮﻧﺎ ﺷَﻴﺦٌ ﻛَﺒﻴﺮٌ ﴿٢٣ ﴾ He said, 'What is your business?' They said, 'We may not draw water until the shepherds drive off; and our father is passing old.' Oddly Al-Samiri reply came in a kind of ego-centric manner as claiming the thing the did to be his divine right. So when the timing is right and presented itself, without much thinking he grabbed it. ﻗﺎﻝَ ﺑَﺼُﺮﺕُ ﺑِﻤﺎ ﻟَﻢ ﻳَﺒﺼُﺮﻭﺍ ﺑِﻪِ ﻓَﻘَﺒَﻀﺖُ ﻗَﺒﻀَﺔً ﻣِﻦ ﺃَﺛَﺮِ ﺍﻟﺮَّﺳﻮﻝِ ﻓَﻨَﺒَﺬﺗُﻬﺎ ﻭَﻛَﺬٰﻟِﻚَ ﺳَﻮَّﻟَﺖ ﻟﻰ ﻧَﻔﺴﻰ ﴿٩٦﴾ 96) He replied: 'I saw what they did not see and seized a handful of dust from the foot print of the messenger and so I cast it – this my soul prompted me to do.' So it is getting pretty much clear that he is beginning to show his true colors, and openly admitted to know many things that the Bani Israel do not. Up till this point, we have observing his epic saga, and that he does not age as other normal people would, his experiences would tower above the relatively young and fledgling Bani Israel… It would be very plausible at this moment, Prophet Musa knew that he is facing a Dajjal right in his midst. Like all the other Prophets before he has been reminded by Allah to remind the people from the fitnah of Dajjal. Every Prophets know that it is only Prophet Isa alaihi salam who will be able to defeat and kill a Dajjal.
Ponder on the fact, why the Quran does not stop at mentioning the fact the Bani Israel were led astray by Musa Al- Samiri. There is an ending dialog to the story…..between Prophet Musa alaihissalam and Al-Samiri….Let's get to know a little bit more about the persona of Prophet Musa alaihi salam……Prophet Musa was brought up as a prince among the Egyptian court, however upon finding his true identity and calling, he has never looked back even if it means going against a mighty king, the Pharaoh of Egypt…no easy task, and would definitely need a strong will. therefore when he is consumed with anger (only for the sake of Allah), he won't even know that he is consumed by that rage/anger…..It was said, upon descending the mountains of Sinai only to find his people worshiping an idol, he was so consumed with rage that he threw away the stone tablets (THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) that he was carrying that it broke into pieces! Allah had told him beforehand that his people is afflicted with a great fitnah on the mountain top. Prophetic visions? Most probably… Crucially let's revisit the ending dialog of this story between the Musas – Prophet and Dajjalic individual; ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻓَﻤﺎ ﺧَﻄﺒُﻚَ ﻳٰﺴٰﻤِﺮِﻯُّ ﴿٩٥﴾ 95) ) 'You, Samaritan,' said he (Moses), 'what was your business?' ﻗﺎﻝَ ﺑَﺼُﺮﺕُ ﺑِﻤﺎ ﻟَﻢ ﻳَﺒﺼُﺮﻭﺍ ﺑِﻪِ ﻓَﻘَﺒَﻀﺖُ ﻗَﺒﻀَﺔً ﻣِﻦ ﺃَﺛَﺮِ ﺍﻟﺮَّﺳﻮﻝِ ﻓَﻨَﺒَﺬﺗُﻬﺎ ﻭَﻛَﺬٰﻟِﻚَ ﺳَﻮَّﻟَﺖ ﻟﻰ ﻧَﻔﺴﻰ ﴿٩٦﴾ 96) ) He replied: 'I saw what they did not see and seized a handful of dust from the foot print of the messenger and so I cast it – this my soul prompted me to do.' ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻓَﺎﺫﻫَﺐ ﻓَﺈِﻥَّ ﻟَﻚَ ﻓِﻰ ﺍﻟﺤَﻴﻮٰﺓِ ﺃَﻥ ﺗَﻘﻮﻝَ ﻻ ﻣِﺴﺎﺱَ ۖ ﻭَﺇِﻥَّ ﻟَﻚَ ﻣَﻮﻋِﺪًﺍ ﻟَﻦ ﺗُﺨﻠَﻔَﻪُ ۖ ﻭَﺍﻧﻈُﺮ ﺇِﻟﻰٰ ﺇِﻟٰﻬِﻚَ ﺍﻟَّﺬﻯ ﻇَﻠﺖَ ﻋَﻠَﻴﻪِ ﻋﺎﻛِﻔًﺎ ۖ ﻟَﻨُﺤَﺮِّﻗَﻨَّﻪُ ﺛُﻢَّ ﻟَﻨَﻨﺴِﻔَﻨَّﻪُ ﻓِﻰ ﺍﻟﻴَﻢِّ ﻧَﺴﻔًﺎ ﴿٩٧﴾ 97)) 'Begone! Your lot in this life is to cry: "DO NOT TOUCH ME!"’ said he (Moses). 'An APPOINTMENT awaits you that you cannot fail to keep. Look at your god which you clung to – indeed we will burn it and scatter its ashes upon the sea.' ﺇِﻧَّﻤﺎ ﺇِﻟٰﻬُﻜُﻢُ ﺍﻟﻠَّﻪُ ﺍﻟَّﺬﻯ ﻻ ﺇِﻟٰﻪَ ﺇِﻟّﺎ ﻫُﻮَ ۚ ﻭَﺳِﻊَ ﻛُﻞَّ ﺷَﻲﺀٍ ﻋِﻠﻤًﺎ ﴿٩٨﴾ 98)) Your God is only One, Allah. There is no god, except He, alone. His knowledge encompasses all things.
ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻳٰﻬٰﺮﻭﻥُ ﻣﺎ ﻣَﻨَﻌَﻚَ ﺇِﺫ ﺭَﺃَﻳﺘَﻬُﻢ ﺿَﻠّﻮﺍ ﴿٩٢﴾ 92) ) He (Moses) said to Aaron: 'When you saw them in error, what prevented you, ﺃَﻟّﺎ ﺗَﺘَّﺒِﻌَﻦِ ۖ ﺃَﻓَﻌَﺼَﻴﺖَ ﺃَﻣﺮﻯ ﴿٩٣﴾ 93) ) from following after me, did you disobey my order?' ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻳَﺒﻨَﺆُﻡَّ ﻻ ﺗَﺄﺧُﺬ ﺑِﻠِﺤﻴَﺘﻰ ﻭَﻻ ﺑِﺮَﺃﺳﻰ ۖ ﺇِﻧّﻰ ﺧَﺸﻴﺖُ ﺃَﻥ ﺗَﻘﻮﻝَ ﻓَﺮَّﻗﺖَ ﺑَﻴﻦَ ﺑَﻨﻰ ﺇِﺳﺮٰﺀﻳﻞَ ﻭَﻟَﻢ ﺗَﺮﻗُﺐ ﻗَﻮﻟﻰ ﴿٩٤﴾ 94) ) 'Son of my mother,' he replied, 'Do not seize my beard nor my head. I was afraid that you might say: "You have divided the Children of Israel and did not uphold my word." ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻓَﻤﺎ ﺧَﻄﺒُﻚَ ﻳٰﺴٰﻤِﺮِﻯُّ ﴿٩٥﴾ 95) ) 'You, Samaritan,' said he (Moses), 'what was your business?' ﻗﺎﻝَ ﺑَﺼُﺮﺕُ ﺑِﻤﺎ ﻟَﻢ ﻳَﺒﺼُﺮﻭﺍ ﺑِﻪِ ﻓَﻘَﺒَﻀﺖُ ﻗَﺒﻀَﺔً ﻣِﻦ ﺃَﺛَﺮِ ﺍﻟﺮَّﺳﻮﻝِ ﻓَﻨَﺒَﺬﺗُﻬﺎ ﻭَﻛَﺬٰﻟِﻚَ ﺳَﻮَّﻟَﺖ ﻟﻰ ﻧَﻔﺴﻰ ﴿٩٦﴾ 96) ) He replied: 'I saw what they did not see and seized a handful of dust from the foot print of the messenger and so I cast it – this my soul prompted me to do.' ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻓَﺎﺫﻫَﺐ ﻓَﺈِﻥَّ ﻟَﻚَ ﻓِﻰ ﺍﻟﺤَﻴﻮٰﺓِ ﺃَﻥ ﺗَﻘﻮﻝَ ﻻ ﻣِﺴﺎﺱَ ۖ ﻭَﺇِﻥَّ ﻟَﻚَ ﻣَﻮﻋِﺪًﺍ ﻟَﻦ ﺗُﺨﻠَﻔَﻪُ ۖ ﻭَﺍﻧﻈُﺮ ﺇِﻟﻰٰ ﺇِﻟٰﻬِﻚَ ﺍﻟَّﺬﻯ ﻇَﻠﺖَ ﻋَﻠَﻴﻪِ ﻋﺎﻛِﻔًﺎ ۖ ﻟَﻨُﺤَﺮِّﻗَﻨَّﻪُ ﺛُﻢَّ ﻟَﻨَﻨﺴِﻔَﻨَّﻪُ ﻓِﻰ ﺍﻟﻴَﻢِّ ﻧَﺴﻔًﺎ ﴿٩٧﴾ 97) ) 'Begone! Your lot in this life is to cry: "DO NOT TOUCH ME!"’ said he (Moses). 'An APPOINTMENT awaits you that you cannot fail to keep. Look at your god which you clung to – indeed we will burn it and scatter its ashes upon the sea.' ﺇِﻧَّﻤﺎ ﺇِﻟٰﻬُﻜُﻢُ ﺍﻟﻠَّﻪُ ﺍﻟَّﺬﻯ ﻻ ﺇِﻟٰﻪَ ﺇِﻟّﺎ ﻫُﻮَ ۚ ﻭَﺳِﻊَ ﻛُﻞَّ ﺷَﻲﺀٍ ﻋِﻠﻤًﺎ ﴿٩٨﴾ 98) ) Your God is only One, Allah. There is no god, except He, alone. His knowledge encompasses all things.
ﻓَﺮَﺟَﻊَ ﻣﻮﺳﻰٰ ﺇِﻟﻰٰ ﻗَﻮﻣِﻪِ ﻏَﻀﺒٰﻦَ ﺃَﺳِﻔًﺎ ۚ ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻳٰﻘَﻮﻡِ ﺃَﻟَﻢ ﻳَﻌِﺪﻛُﻢ ﺭَﺑُّﻜُﻢ ﻭَﻋﺪًﺍ ﺣَﺴَﻨًﺎ ۚ ﺃَﻓَﻄﺎﻝَ ﻋَﻠَﻴﻜُﻢُ ﺍﻟﻌَﻬﺪُ ﺃَﻡ ﺃَﺭَﺩﺗُﻢ ﺃَﻥ ﻳَﺤِﻞَّ ﻋَﻠَﻴﻜُﻢ ﻏَﻀَﺐٌ ﻣِﻦ ﺭَﺑِّﻜُﻢ ﻓَﺄَﺧﻠَﻔﺘُﻢ ﻣَﻮﻋِﺪﻯ ﴿٨٦﴾ 86) ) With great anger and sorrow, Moses returned to his nation. 'My nation,' he said, 'did your Lord not make you a fine promise? Did the time of the covenant seem long to you? Or did you desire that the anger of your Lord should fall upon you so that you failed in your coming to my appointment?' ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻣﺎ ﺃَﺧﻠَﻔﻨﺎ ﻣَﻮﻋِﺪَﻙَ ﺑِﻤَﻠﻜِﻨﺎ ﻭَﻟٰﻜِﻨّﺎ ﺣُﻤِّﻠﻨﺎ ﺃَﻭﺯﺍﺭًﺍ ﻣِﻦ ﺯﻳﻨَﺔِ ﺍﻟﻘَﻮﻡِ ﻓَﻘَﺬَﻓﻨٰﻬﺎ ﻓَﻜَﺬٰﻟِﻚَ ﺃَﻟﻘَﻰ ﺍﻟﺴّﺎﻣِﺮِﻯُّ ﴿٨٧﴾ 87) ) They replied: 'We have not failed in our promise to you through our choosing. We were laden with fardels, even the ornaments of the nation, and threw them just as the Samaritan had thrown them (into the fire), ﻓَﺄَﺧﺮَﺝَ ﻟَﻬُﻢ ﻋِﺠﻠًﺎ ﺟَﺴَﺪًﺍ ﻟَﻪُ ﺧُﻮﺍﺭٌ ﻓَﻘﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻫٰﺬﺍ ﺇِﻟٰﻬُﻜُﻢ ﻭَﺇِﻟٰﻪُ ﻣﻮﺳﻰٰ ﻓَﻨَﺴِﻰَ ﴿٨٨﴾ 88) ) and made a calf for them, a figure that lowed. "This," they said, "is your god and the god of Moses but whom he has forgotten." ﺃَﻓَﻼ ﻳَﺮَﻭﻥَ ﺃَﻟّﺎ ﻳَﺮﺟِﻊُ ﺇِﻟَﻴﻬِﻢ ﻗَﻮﻟًﺎ ﻭَﻻ ﻳَﻤﻠِﻚُ ﻟَﻬُﻢ ﺿَﺮًّﺍ ﻭَﻻ ﻧَﻔﻌًﺎ ﴿٨٩﴾ 89) ) What! Did they not see that it did not speak a word to them in return, and for them it could own neither harm nor benefit? ﻭَﻟَﻘَﺪ ﻗﺎﻝَ ﻟَﻬُﻢ ﻫٰﺮﻭﻥُ ﻣِﻦ ﻗَﺒﻞُ ﻳٰﻘَﻮﻡِ ﺇِﻧَّﻤﺎ ﻓُﺘِﻨﺘُﻢ ﺑِﻪِ ۖ ﻭَﺇِﻥَّ ﺭَﺑَّﻜُﻢُ ﺍﻟﺮَّﺣﻤٰﻦُ ﻓَﺎﺗَّﺒِﻌﻮﻧﻰ ﻭَﺃَﻃﻴﻌﻮﺍ ﺃَﻣﺮﻯ ﴿٩٠﴾ 90) ) Aaron had said to them before: 'My nation, you have been tempted by it. Your Lord is the Merciful. Follow me and obey my order.' ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻟَﻦ ﻧَﺒﺮَﺡَ ﻋَﻠَﻴﻪِ ﻋٰﻜِﻔﻴﻦَ ﺣَﺘّﻰٰ ﻳَﺮﺟِﻊَ ﺇِﻟَﻴﻨﺎ ﻣﻮﺳﻰٰ ﴿٩١﴾ 91) ) They replied: 'We will not stop; we will cling to it until Moses returns to us.'
So Pharaoh met a most terrifying end by drowning in the Red Sea with all his men….So the tribes of Bani Israel continue on with their journey inside a most barren land…..Imagine the despair felt by Prophet Musa alaihi salam upon descending the Sinai Mountain only to find his people went back to Shirk…. Before Prophet Musa alaihi salam went to the mountain, he has gathered 70 elects (pious people) from the Bani Israel to stay with Prophet Harun alaihi salam, who ceaselessly reminded the people; "Do not turn to Kufr and Shirk to Allah subhanahu wataala." Prophet Harun said, "O my people! You are being tested with this Golden Calf and Verily your true Lord is ever forbearing, so heed my words and follow me. Musa is your prophet and Rasul who have been sent to you and to give reminders from all sorts of Fitnah including the Fitnah of the Dajjal. Musa gave stern warnings that Dajjal is the biggest Fitnah!" The 70 people including Prophet Harun would repeat this reminder among the people. They would ask the Bani Israel… "Do you not see that this Calf cannot give you answers, nor does it can harm you nor benefit you in any way??" Upon the return Prophet Musa alaihi salam, they relayed the information during his absence that these people either stole the gold from the Egyptians or have been entrusted with it by the Egyptians. That was when Musa Al-Samiri called out to the Tribes of Bani Israel; "I am your Prophet sent by the Lord to all of you and to Musa. Verily this is the Calf that our ancestors used to worship in Samirah. It has been taken away from us by the Egyptians and they named it Calf of Ubays. The Egyptians were deceived by their own priests/shamans." He then told the people that he is able to show the Lord with the condition that they surrender all their gold to be put inside a hole of a rock. Samiri then assembled all the finest craftsmen who melted the gold and then cooled it with sea water, they chiseled off a big rock to form a calf and then they poured molten gold onto it… The people then told Al-Samiri all the gold collected amongst them have been used up. [There are numerous exegesis of the Quran such Ibn Jarir Al-Tabari, on why the Bani Israel collected all the gold. Prophet Harun wanted to cleanse the Gold which was stolen, so they collected all the gold and placed them in a hole. They await further instructions from Prophet Musa, if these treasures (Ghanimah – spoils of war) are deemed Halal then they will retrieve them.] So upon completion of the Calf statue, Musa Al-Samiri threw something on to it. [Remember the magical dust that he took from the ISLAND?] At the same time, he requested Prophet Harun to perform prayer to Allah to fulfill his request. Without knowing what As-Samiri meant, Prophet Harun prayed to Allah and is being fulfilled. That was when Al-Samiri said that he requested that Allah put 'life' into the Calf….the Golden Calf moved and it made some whistling sounds, much to the awe of the Bani Israel. As in the Surah Toha verse 88, Al-Samiri said, "This is your Lord and Lord of Musa, but Musa has forgotten…" What is baffling, it is now evident that the Bani Israel have fallen into the clutches of Dajjal's fitnah….in spite them being witness how this calf has been made/molded by human hands. But, believe they did to all these baloney, to an extent that they claim the Prophet Musa forgot his Lord, tried to find the Lord but got lost and do not know the Lord's PLACE.
He tried to retrace his heritage from accounts told by the beast. He asked some local people, and many of them told him that the town Samirah had been under an eclipse for a hundred years! They were not familiar of tales of a child being taken away by an Angel. It was only when he met an elderly man from a neighboring area called Al-Jalil who was somewhat familiar with the tale, even then he only heard this from other elders from Arbad, Palestine. The story was somewhat distorted, because they heard that the child were taken by Gods of whom are deities of a Female Cow. A noblemen took away the child from the father, who thought that child was blessed by the Gods. But the child also died when the eclipse began. Dajjal asked the people, “What do you worship here in Samirah?” They answered, “The Cow (Calf), the Cow is God to the deities. Don’t you see the cow is blessing us with all this meat and milk. Even rodents don’t dare to enter our houses which is blessed by these cow idols.” Now, he began to realize what the Jassasah once told him were true, but he refuses to worship anything that he could not see or hear from. In fact, he even maintained his bloated ego by praising only himself. So he stayed in Samirah for some more years. We will continue this story when Dajjal had a first encounter with a Great Prophet of Allah, Musa alaihi salam in Egypt. Let us retrace the Exodus journey of Prophet Musa alaihi salam and his Bani Israel tribes out of Egypt, the miracle of the Red Sea Crossing and their encampment at the foot of the Tur Sina – Jabal Musa…..more miracles and of course Musa As-Samiri's a.ka. Dajjal handiwork – the Golden Calf. The Miracle about the Pharaoh in the Quran – a well preserved non-mummified Pharaoh exactly as mentioned in these verses: ﻭَﺟَﺎﻭَﺯْﻧَﺎ ﺑِﺒَﻨِﻲ ﺇِﺳْﺮَﺍﺋِﻴﻞَ ﺍﻟْﺒَﺤْﺮَ ﻓَﺄَﺗْﺒَﻌَﻬُﻢْ ﻓِﺮْﻋَﻮْﻥُ ﻭَﺟُﻨُﻮﺩُﻩُ ﺑَﻐْﻴًﺎ ﻭَﻋَﺪْﻭًﺍ ﺣَﺘَّﻰ ﺇِﺫَﺍ ﺃَﺩْﺭَﻛَﻪُ ﺍﻟْﻐَﺮَﻕُ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺁﻣَﻨﺖُ ﺃَﻧَّﻪُ ﻻ ﺇِﻟِـﻪَ ﺇِﻻَّ ﺍﻟَّﺬِﻱ ﺁﻣَﻨَﺖْ ﺑِﻪِ ﺑَﻨُﻮ ﺇِﺳْﺮَﺍﺋِﻴﻞَ ﻭَﺃَﻧَﺎْ ﻣِﻦَ ﺍﻟْﻤُﺴْﻠِﻤِﻴﻦَ ) 10:90 ( 10:90 (Asad) And We brought the children of Israel across the sea; and thereupon Pharaoh and his hosts pursued them with vehement insolence and tyranny, until [they were overwhelmed by the waters of the sea. And] when he was about to drown, [Pharaoh] exclaimed: [110] "I have come to believe that there is no deity save Him in whom the children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender themselves unto Him!" ﺁﻵﻥَ ﻭَﻗَﺪْ ﻋَﺼَﻴْﺖَ ﻗَﺒْﻞُ ﻭَﻛُﻨﺖَ ﻣِﻦَ ﺍﻟْﻤُﻔْﺴِﺪِﻳﻦَ ) 10:91 ( 10:91 (Asad) [But God said:] "Now? [111] -when ever before this thou hast been rebelling [against Us], and hast been among those who spread corruption? ﻓَﺎﻟْﻴَﻮْﻡَ ﻧُﻨَﺠِّﻴﻚَ ﺑِﺒَﺪَﻧِﻚَ ﻟِﺘَﻜُﻮﻥَ ﻟِﻤَﻦْ ﺧَﻠْﻔَﻚَ ﺁﻳَﺔً ﻭَﺇِﻥَّ ﻛَﺜِﻴﺮًﺍ ﻣِّﻦَ ﺍﻟﻨَّﺎﺱِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺁﻳَﺎﺗِﻨَﺎ ﻟَﻐَﺎﻓِﻠُﻮﻥَ ) 10:92 ( 10:92 (Asad) [Nay,] but today We shall save [preserve] only thy body, [112] so that thou may be a [warning] sign unto those who will come after thee: for, behold, a good many people are heedless of Our messages!
The next day, he tried to convince the beast that he would not harm it any more on the condition that the beast would follow all his orders. Then by Allah’s will the beast began to speak again: “I will only follow the commands of Allah, and I will not submit to any of Allah’s creations!” It then warns Dajjal that there will come a night when it would impossible for him to fall asleep. After that Allah’s curse will come, in that he will eventually leave the island, for him to see the outside world and be given the chance to witness Allah’s glory in all of his creations. He will also be given the chance to meet three (3) great Prophets – the ulul ‘azmi. Upon informing this to Dajjal, the beast then fled from the area like a plague is coming. Dajjal then went to the seven stones….He reckons what the beast told him about the Prophets is just a silly game. There is no God. Everything in nature, the sky, wind, water, earth, fire, plants just seem to happen to be there. Then he thought about the episode of reanimating a dead bird. Maybe, there is something about the magical colorful dust. He intends to find out how. So he collected more of this dust and kept it in his cave. On this night, he was able to sleep even for a second. He tried everything to fall asleep but just couldn’t. He then remembered what the beast told him earlier, in that he will leave the island. The next day, he set out a plan to get off the island. He created a large bonfire near the beach, hoping somebody out there in the vast ocean would notice it. Nauseated from the lack of sleep, he had to keep the fire alive. Suddenly, he fell into a deep slumber. When he woke up, it was night time and totally pitch black. He hurriedly resumed making a fire near the beach. He did this for three days and three nights. And on the third night, he noticed a light at the edge of the horizon and it’s coming closer. Then he noticed something smaller coming to the beach and on it are five men. This is only Dajjal’s second encounter with another human being. Much of his earlier childhood was spent sleeping. He was pleasantly surprised that these men speak the same tongue as his (Arabic). These men came from the prosperous nation of Yemen some 4000 kilometers away from the island.Without much thought he began to tell his story how he got to the island. They didn’t really believed what he said, and considered him some poor lost soul whom have lost his mind for staying on the island alone for too long. Dajjal boarded the ship on their journey back to Yemen. They decided to ditch him when the first opportunity arises. On that journey, as if Allah flung his curses upon his (Dajjal’s) presence, the seas was rough, the winds were merciless. In all their life spent sailing, they have never seen such rage shown by the seas. Eventually, they reached Yemen and Dajjal is about to walk on the main land for the first time in his life. Dajjal for the first time in his life left the island, followed Yemeni sailors to Yemen. When they reached the port, the sailors gave him some coins which of course at the time, Dajjal had no idea how to use them. This is his first ever experience with a human civilization with, he keenly observed all the hustle bustle of human activities. He quickly began to learn new things everyday. He was readily able to absorb everything new to him with amazing ease. He knew there was something special about his mental capacity that it would equal to a hundred men. People began to notice this. At one point, he was able to secure a job as a servant to a well known Yemeni philosopher at the time. When the philosopher began noticing his remarkable mental attributes, he asked his name and where he came from. Dajjal answered he is Al-Samiri as in the name of place of birth in Samirah, Palestine. The philosopher said to him given enough time this young man would one be a king, but is undecided whether he might a good and just king or a tyrant. Dajjal instantly remembered what the beast, Jassasah once spoke of the same thing to him on that island. Nevertheless, his mind only follows his whims, and chose to remain heedless of the many reminders of the beast. Many years have passed; he began making plans to make a visit to his place of origin, Samirah. But before that, he thought of going back to the island, because he began to miss the place where he grew up in his childhood. So off went on a big boat, which was procured after years of working and traveling between many lands. When he reached to that island, he ordered his sailors to wait for him on the boat, while he took a smaller boat (probably a rowing boat) to beach on the island. When he reached the island, he found that the Jassasah was eagerly waiting for him, and looked at him with a stern look. Then the beast suddenly ran back into the island without uttering a single word. Then Dajjal remembered the mysterious dust that he once collected from the 7 big stones. He retrieved the dust and proceeded back to his boat to embark on a journey towards Palestine, his birth place. He left his boat near a valley, and continued on land to Samirah. At this point in time his age is roughly 100 years old. The most extraordinary thing about him is, as if time froze for him where he showed no signs of aging whatsoever.
Days passed, months passed, years passed…..he has now reached the age of 20. However, he has never even once prayed to Allah as instructed by him, previously. The beast or Jassasah always come to see him and not say a single word. Every single time the Jassasah would give signs gesturing, as if to remind Dajjal of something very important he has forgotten. Dajjal now shows signs of sheer arrogance and remain heedless of the Jassasah reminders. Now comes the tipping point for his heedlessness. One day while facing the skies, Dajjal said: "Who knows what you spoke of (O beast) is true. I'm all alone here. I have never seen this Jibraeel sent to me. I have never seen this Earthquake that you spoke of. I have not even seen this, Allah. There's no way of telling that these pile of stones came from you O' Jibraeel! Who knows, it may have been writing by schools of fish who pass by this island, and those stones get washed ashore. Or this writing came from somewhere else!" Suddenly the beast growled loudly and shook the whole island. It then fled into the dense vegetation of the island. Upon seeing the reaction of the beast, Dajjal shouted: "I don't know, I just don’t know……I know of none other but Me! Verily, everything around me bows to me. Everything around me declares I am God, ruler of this Island. Everything that revolves around this island is due to my power!" The beast does not return to him until the next day. On that day, the beast came up to him and gestured Dajjal to talk in eloquent Arabic: "Verily, Jibraeel instructed me to see you and talk to you in that you are coming to a critical juncture. Even so, the choice is all yours. Rest assured this came from the Angel Jibraeel who wrote with his hands on this parchment. Place your hand on anything, and you will find a sign for you. So, pray to Allah, your God who is the All Merciful. If you do not (pray to Allah), this will be your final reminder that you will be a creation who have been cast from Allah's mercy." So he took the colorful dust of the small stone which looks as if it's been added with water, even though it's not….He observed and examined the dust carefully. He then threw it on a rotting corpse of dead bird. The bird was a vulture. With the will of Allah, the bird came to life and flew away high into the sky! These are signs of the wonders and power of Allah swt. The bird flew back to its original position and was once again dead. “What just happened?” The Dajjal asked. The beast replied, “That dust contains the power and ruh (soul) from Jibraeel. For Jibraeel is Ruhul Qudus. It has the essence of life and holds the Light to reanimate dead things with the Will of Allah. Only Allah has the power to resurrect people from the dead, to be shown by a future prophet from among your people. (Sayyidina Isa Son of Mary alaihi salam!) Jibraeel will embrace the dead person. When that prophet supplicates to Allah, that person will be alive again, whom will answer questions of people at that time, and then he shall die again. Know that Allah have given you blessings and nothing more than that. Take care of your own safety, if you do, you will be safe from curses of others.”The beast then went on: “This is your best chance to prove yourself. It’s better for you not to let it go to waste, because the future is filled with grievous and frightful things.” Then the beast remained silent and stopped speaking like any normal animal. Upon hearing this, the Dajjal began to question himself. A big internal conflict plagued his mind. At each turn, he would use simple logical reasoning to justify his thoughts of self grandeur and deify the self and a grossly inflated ego. “Why settle to be good and just be mere king, and if God is all powerful and controls all the shots, why not be God myself!” It’s becoming plainly clear, the constant reminders of the beast has never made any impression on him. Dangerous thoughts indeed….the mind will be a playground for Shaytan when it is devoid of constant Zikrullah (remembrance of Allah).His mind now began to focus on the beast, Jassasah and what was said by the beast. He said to himself: “Verily the influences of the Rasul (messengers) as mentioned by the beast is just a game. The beast sure knows a lot of things, but it obeys me. Therefore, it must be true that I am also his God. But it is not afraid of me like all the other animals on this island. If so, I must do something about it.” To test the beast’s obedience, he lit up a fire, and looked for the beast. When he found the beast he used a stick burnt from the fire and hit it at the back. The beast immediately fled into the island.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, I pray that what I've shared with you, be it through emails or my comments here, will make sense to you. Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Jibraeel kept returning to the island to look over the miracolous child. As a human, the child does not see Jibraeel, Angels made from pure Light and he kept sleeping again like he used to upon birth. Until the age of 8, he began to wake up again, eat and drink from the provisions available on the island. At one time, a whisper came to his ears that taught him how to fish. That whisper came from the Angel Jibraeel always vigilant and giving watchful eye on the child. He then started to wander further into the island, all the time very wary and cautious. As time goes, it becomes clear that are no predatory animals living on this island except for a few snakes. Many birds also inhabited the islands. Thoughts of him as the ruler of the island began to creep into his mind. Until…. One day, he stumbled upon a large creature/beast with long and thick hair, that you could not make out which is front which is back, until you see the piercing eyes. This is the Jassasah…. The beast said, "You are the child saved by Allah's mercy from a town destroyed by a terrifying earthquake in Samirah, you were brought here by the ArchAngel Jibraeel. He was also the one assigned to look after your food and drink. With that, you must not betray the covenant between you and Allah, for inside the hearts of every Sons of Adam heedful and submission to Allah so long as faith and its pure nature is bound to it. Thus, you must be a Muslim & Mukmin with firm faith in the Lord of the Worlds, He is the One and Only God." The beast signaled Dajjal towards a heap of stones. On it are inscriptions of Arabic characters, one by one the beast taught Dajjal. The beast then signaled him towards another pile of stones, and 7 of the stones are inscribed: 1) La ilaha illallah 2) Allahu wahid la syarika lahu 3) You are watched over by Jibraeel, thus you must not betray your covenant with Allah 4) You are the only inhabitant of this island 5) Eat and enjoy the bounties given by Allah as you like, sleep as you like. Worship Allah in your best capacity through tasbih, prayers, for Allah is One, do not beget nor begotten. Allah is A'zim, Kabir and he is Lord of all Worlds. 6) O little child, be of this time, and do not be a child of the past or any other time 7) There is no book of revelation upon you except to what is brought by the Last Prophet, Muhammad Sallallahu alaihi wasallam, who will come upon the Last Age. If you have faith in him, you will be someone of faith to Allah, but if you reject him, you will be someone who will be inflicted severe pain by Allah swt. Verily, you are in the time between two Great Prophets who have submitted to Allah, verily all prophets submit themselves to Allah. If you have accepted the faith, Allah will ease your faith towards the Khatamul Anbiya'. He is Muhammad Al-Amin. He will be a Prophet and Rasul among people who are mostly illiterate. He will make the Hijrah where many date palms grow with many spring water and wells. If you reject the Prophets that precedes prophet Muhammad, Allah will close your heart with the black ra-in (Ar-Rain, hijab of the heart that incapacitates you to receive the Light – Nur of Prophet Muhammad)
All these narrations are taken from the manuscripts from the old pious man in Yemen, Haidar bin 'Aril Billah 'Abdullah bin Salam bin Syari The confirmed folklore tells that Dajjal was born with a permanent defect in one eye. Since birth he sleeps day and night and very rarely wakes up to breastfeed from his mother. Due to this the mother fell sick and died because of the accumulation of unfed breast milk. He continued sleeping for a few years, surviving on goat's milk given by his father, never once opening his eyes….until one night at the age of 4, the child mysteriously woke up and made his way to sleep with the cow idols in the house. By this time, rumors of the sleeping baby have been widespread throughout the town, so this episode drew attention from many people. Many came to see this miraculous child, some even sought blessings. This news made its way to the noble/ruler/authority of the town and summoned the father to insist that he was the one who brought the child to the idols to benefit from the people, the father promptly rejected the accusation….for this the father was thrown into prison. The noblemen ruled out tough action will be dealt with whoever worship the cow idol that met many resistance from the people. The story of the miraculous child became even more widespread throughout the world and was widely known as 'Ajubah As-Samirah. The noblemen took the child into his custody in his palace. The father soon died from what is classified as adz-dzabhah as-sadriyyah al-mutakarrarah or other words, hypertension/stress. Another year passes by, until at the age of 5, Dajjal finally woke up and tried to interact with people in the court of the palace. They noticed the bad defected eyes and tried to treat but to no avail. One month after this, the Dajjal child will see another twist of fate. It turns out the town was like the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah that widely practices sodomy (peculiar preference of the same sex). By Allah's grace, He will not destroy a tribe unless they have been forewarned but there is only a certain limit that Allah let them transgress. When it's very evident that the warning fell on deaf ears, His divine punishment/retribution is swift. Allah commanded the Angel Jibraeel to destroy that town while making sure no harm falls on to the Dajjal child who was in the palace. Jibraeel retrieved Dajjal and carried him away and brought him to an island in the Yemeni Sea. Jibraeel went back to the town to execute Allah's decree, everything was destroyed and instantly buried, turned inside out. Jibraeel returned to the island, where now he is tasked to keep an eye on Dajjal and provide him with food and water. Allah firman to Jibraeel: "O' Jibraeel, that child is my servant, however he will declare himself as God in the Last Age. I will send another servant of mine, who will bring painful retribution to him(dajjal) and eventually kill him at a specific time. That person will be a Prophet who will be sent at another time as a Wali, without revelation (Wahyu), in the end times. To the next phase of Dajjal early life, growing up on the island. That island is known as Al-Jazirah Ath-thu'ban ar-rahib wa ad-dabbah al-halba' which means "Island of frightening snakes and hairy beasts" based on old ancient folklore. The legend says the island is inhabited by venomous snakes and hairy beasts which tongue is able to converse in many languages. The Island is a small island like an atoll with many underground spring water and covered with lush vegetation. The island is also blessed with many fruits. The climate is cool and rainy throughout the year. The Island is in the Indian Ocean south of Yemen. There are many island chains in the Yemeni-Indian Ocean. The particular island inhabited by the miraculous child looked as if it is separated from the main body/chains of islands. This may mean, it is the furthest away from these island chains.
Ms phoenix, I'm telling you the truth that reincarnation is a hoax and a horrible lie and many people are deceived to believe that they have many past lives.
"And is this not your blind belief? How do you know we did not exist before we were born and will not exist after we leave this form?" Before a car is manufactured the car did not exist, all of the materials that would come to make the car certainly did, but the car itself did not exist in some magical world of unborn cars. Likewise when a car stops functioning and is beyond repair the car will be crushed or that is to say destroyed and the car does not continue in a magical afterlife. This is what happens in reality. What you believe is pure fantasy.
You reminded me to a story…
Mr Marathon15, I really can't believe that this man whom I love so much could fall so easily into the pit of lies. I always think that he is wiser and smarter than all those gullible people out there but I was wrong. He is still a baby hero to me and need more help to become my superhero.
Nah your mind is wrong 🙂
No, you 🙂
Hm…nah thats not what my sect said 😉
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, I can't believe my eyes when I read your above comment and realized that you could be so stupid and gullible as to believe in reincarnation! Oh, what has happened to you, my dear Iranian hero, don't you know that I really do love you very much? Please exercise your brain and find out the truth. I believe that one day, you will arrive to the same conclusion as me that reincarnation is just a lie, to fool gullible fools.
*shakes head*its just your feeling dear 🙂
Oh really? What is the color of soul and how does it smell like? 😉
I don't eat any kind of meat ,if you through a piece of flash on earth it will give birth to germs but a seed gives birth to a new plant. The milk of that dear cow is enough to sustain me not its flash.I am true humanist ( i practice humanity not lecturing)
a heart melting story that ali.
these hindoos will now start calling you an advaithist. pray more fervently dear ali. god will come infront of you with an elephant head, with four arms each holding a dagger, trident, sword and a severed head. the god of love.
There are myriad injunctions in vedic scriptures glorifying cows and her worth in this regard.
Buffalo and other mammals also give milk but why are they not called a mother or at least aunt (मौसी)? It has been found through modern researches at agricultural universities that if the same fodder containing DDT, BHC and other pesticides is given to the cow and buffalo, the milk of cow contain only 5% of DDT and BHC etc, while that of buffalo contains 12% of the same. Moreover, buffalo's milk makes mind dumb because the milk carries the property of its source (there are many idioms on buffalo conveying its dumbness). We notice that the calf of a cow can recognize his mother at once amongst hundreds of cows but a calf of a buffalo would mistakenly approach other buffaloes and gets kicked away.
not better than hindu/ vedic bramanism is spiritual and philosophical. during vedic times bramans were addicted to cow meat. they killed all animals as sacrifice and ate them to their fill. vedas are full of cow dung. after buddha killed it it was reborn imbibing all good things of buddhism and killing buddhism itself in the process and became bramanism. it than modified the varna system into the caste system and still living its wretched life.
i can quote you verses from rigged veda and ramayana if you want.
note this folks.
as i said before he will start to believe what that is comfortable for him. now he believes in incarnations. (think of ali as a bacteria or a virus. or worse a caancer causing fungus.). you want to satisfy your hindoo followers here. seer ali. my advise. you can sell dung to these hindoo morons. they will happily fall at your feet, get that with both their hands and eat with utmost respect. but you need that to be fancy looking and sugar coated. we look forward you becoming a complete hindoo saint. (a week back a very respectable 75 year old hindoo saint named asaram bapu got arrested molesting a girl since 4 years of her age till she was 14 years. got any such ideas dear ali?)
Hi Marathon,
I have posted somehting for you. http://akshat9.alisina.org/2013/09/04/sceience-an…
That disciple was none other then Swami Rama ,the author (who was witness to it),himself ,this "Parakaya Prvesha" was detailed in many olden scriptures ,easily one cannot refute it .I request you to read the above book first .Because this Swami Rama demonstrated many of this yogic techniques in U.S.A.Even you have chance for clarifications your doubt from Himalayn Institue ,Honsdele,Pennsylvania U.S.A. This man (Swami Rama)willfully left his body at about 2 pm during 1996 at the age of 87 in the presence of his many disciple.(such people acquire mastery over life and death,this is again a yogic technique).
@All
Re-incarnation Changing Bodies-I
Introduction
Many people often talk about how out of body experiences do change the conception of a man completely. A learned professor quoted,” “In my work, I’ve found that the natural ego doesn’t like to die. But if you go through it [a near-death experience], you seem to cross the threshold of death to quite a different reality.” Yes, of course, it is different. The experience is actually like that of a diseased person regaining his health. So now the question arises whether a person who is dead experiences a higher level of reality? The answer to this is very simple. It is in actuality not the person who has died, but the body. According to Vedic knowledge, the body is always dead. For example, a microphone is made of metal. When electric energy passes through the microphone, it responds by converting sound into electrical impulses, which are amplified and broadcast over loudspeakers. But when there is no electricity in the system, nothing happens. Whether the microphone is working or not, it remains nothing more than an assembly of metal, plastic, etc. Similarly, the human body works because of the living force within. When this living force leaves the body, it is said that the body is dead. But actually it is always dead. The living force is the important element; its presence alone makes the body appear to be alive. But “alive” or “dead,” the physical body is nothing more than a collection of dead matter. The first teaching of Bhagavad- Gita reveals that the condition of the material body is ultimately not very important.
asocyan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
nanusocanti panditah
“The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead.” [BG. 2.11]
The dead body is not the real subject for philosophical inquiry. Rather, we should concern ourselves with the active principle — that principle which makes the dead body move – the soul. So, how do we actually become aware of this force which is not matter, but which makes matter appear alive? Of course, we can intellectually appreciate this philosophy which contains the truth, of which there is no doubt. But how do we, make ourselves feel it?
How to Perceive the Soul
Actually, It’s a very simple matter. There is an active principle which makes the body move; when it is absent, the body no longer moves. So the real question is, “What is that active principle?” This inquiry lies at the heart of Vedanta philosophy. In fact, the Vedanta-sutra begins with the aphorism athato brahma-jijnasa — “What is the nature of the self within the body?” Therefore, the student of Vedic philosophy is first taught to distinguish the difference between a living body and a dead one. If he is unable to grasp this principle, we then ask him to consider the problem from the standpoint of logic. Anyone can see that the body is changing and moving because of the presence of the active principle, the soul. In the absence of this active principle, the body neither changes nor moves. So there must be something within the body that makes it move. It is not a very difficult concept.
The body is always dead. It is like a big machine. A tape recorder is made of dead matter, but as soon as you, the living person, push a button, it works. Similarly, the body is also dead matter. But within the body is the life force. As long as this active principle remains within the body, the body responds and appears alive. For instance, we all have the power to speak. If you ask someone to come near you, he will come. But if the active principle leaves his body, you may call him for thousands of years, but he will not come. This is very simple to understand Who Am I
So, till now we have understood something about an active principle which, due to its presence in the body, activates the body. But what exactly is this active principle? That is a separate subject matter, and the answer to that question is the real beginning of spiritual knowledge. We can understand the point made about the dead body – that there must be something within to make it alive. The only proper conclusion is that we are talking about two things — the body and the active principle. But now the real question arises in our minds, “How do we become aware of the active principle within ourselves as a direct experience and not simply as an intellectual conclusion? On the inner path isn’t it important to actually experience this deeper reality?”
Sometimes, people in this world face a problem called as ‘identity crises’. The problem is that people are not able to ascertain and understand what their identity is. The most probable replies from people regarding their identity is name, profession, age, relationships, nationality, caste, sex, etc. But we see that all of these are just designations which can be changed easily. Names, professions, nationalities, etc can be very easily changed. And nowadays even sex and castes are changes easily. All of these designations, which we refer to as our identity, are subject to many changes. But do we change?
Agra,
As you can see Ali has said he believes in Reincarnation (Ali wrote: "Yes I believe in reincarnation now. It is funny. When I was a child I used to have frequent dreams that I was a baby deer jumping up and down with huge leaps. I am not saying those dreams meant anything, but who knows.").
Surprise, people believe in all kinds of things. Lesson: Dont look up to anyone. You're the master of your own life. Find out your own things and come to your own conclusions. Believe in yourself.
I gave 5 separate links,first one is not working.I think this is the one.
http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departm…
http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departm…
Saying Reicarnation is nonsense does not make it so.There are many in-depths studies done on this topic that have been peer-reviewed .http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departments/psychiatry/sections/cspp/dops/dr.-stevensons-publications/STE1.pdf
In this study,79 children who claimed past lives from the Sates are analyzed http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/clinical/departm… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7623016 http://www.indianjpsychiatry.org/article.asp?issn… http://ecite.utas.edu.au/5381
Its was good and if you could understand hindi or urdu you will really enjoy the link below : http://www.listen.pk/audios/250/tum-ek-gorakh-dha…
Ok, while you are on your life boat looking for something better, listen to these songs (link below)…. they are all high-energy Sufi kind of songs. The singer is Gurdas Mann and he did this performance at a mela in a small shrine-town called Nakodar.
He sometimes uses the word 'Muhammad' in the songs… ignore it…. just enjoy the songs. They will relax your mind and keep you in good spirits. If you have any questions feel free to ask in youtube comments. I watch the video and the comments section often. Enjoy-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcDeA5B_zlM
NIZAMUDdIN
I guess u also left the cult when did it happen and how . Beriefly if u wish
Yeah i do but cant speak
Life boats are not for life, but be assured you will be safe until you find something that you firmly agree with. Until then stay with us. All kinds of people here will give you all kinds of suggestions, but you only accept what you agree with.
Do you understand Punjabi well?
Grace
"Rewards and Punishments" are primitive religious concepts.Understanding the Law Of Attraction,which is at the root of all our experiences will raise the vibration of humanity and eliminate our sufferings.
The stable,never changing,always accurate,premise of this Law is: that which is like unto itself is drawn.
Most of our experiences are attracted by default but once you understand this law and put it to practice you'll realise that you're the creator of your own life experiences.
The best books I know of that teaches the Law of Attraction are the Esther and Jerry Hicks books.It will change your life from victimhood to deliberate creator.
@Agracean
// wise man will never worship an animal //
Do you understand what mean worship?
@narcole,
You idiot, YOU are the one eating the wrapper because Muhammad fooled you into believing that was chocolate.
And the snickers that you got, never had the good stuff (chocolate) in it!
@narcole
Islam can not be religion of terrorism because Islam mean peace same Osama Bin Laden can not be terrorist because Osama means lion like in Arabic
Do you understood?
I agree, the world is lovely! Those who think otherwise don't know how to see!
But the selfish Hedonists and devout Muslims are ruining this world, they are making it ugly! That is why one should ditch both Hedonism and Islam!
Dear galileo Davinci,
Thanks and congratulate dear you came from that bog!
Dear Ali ji,
You explained correctly as I feel. There is no words to appreciate such explanation.
Thanks a lot.
Pran
"Allah is ar rahman ar rahim. the word itself means love"
If Allah is ar Rahman ar Rahim then this Surah is wrong and the work of Muhammad 8:17 Falam taqtuloohum walakinna Allaha qatalahum wama ramayta ith ramayta walakinna Allaha rama waliyubliya almu/mineena minhu balaan hasanan inna Allaha sameeAAun AAaleemun
It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).What will you say about this Ayath
galileo,
It is nice and wise of you to post your feelings. I am sure that over the next few days, Ali and others will give you suggestions that you will find very useful. Below is what I have to say in response to your comment, but first- Congratulations for seeing the light 🙂
So you just left Islam and you already have a new "perspective". I think a more accurate word is "belief system". So far you were holding Islam's hand. You already have a new belief system because you think you HAVE TO hold someone's hand, as quickly as possible or else you will start drifting away with no control and no idea where you may end up. It is a scary feeling. It is as if you jumped into a river with strong current and you had to get hold of something, anything. The feeling of being an orphan is very unpleasant. You grabbed the hand of Atheism because that was within reach and you were already familiar with this hand.
Maybe you firmly grabbed this hand before you even fully jumped into the river, and you were not orphan for a second! You knew that the moment you are not Muslim, your new identity would be 'Atheist'. You didn't just become a Atheist, you became firmly loyal to it, just as you were loyal to Islam before. You also let go of the old hand because you knew that whatever boat the hand of Atheism is sticking out from, Ali Sina too would be on that boat, and you will not be alone.
But the truth is that there is nothing to fear. If you don't hold any hands, you will not fall or drift away. You will be fine, just as you were fine when you first began riding the bicycle without training wheels. The scary feeling of being an orphan is unfounded.
So don't dedicate yourself Atheism (or anything else) just yet! Be free for some time and check out different belief systems. Keep an open mind. Ali Sina says "Be your own prophet"! You do not have to follow whereever Ali (or anyone else) is going. Check out different things and then find your own path.
May I ask what country and state you come from?
narcole1919721: what are u doing here between infidels and I am a murtid who just left islam it should be your top most priority to find me and ali and kill us so you could get place in heaven…
Have you got snickers, you unwrapped and you threw the chocolate, and ate the wrapper cos you thought its the wrapper which is snickers cos its clearly written there? ._.
*looks around* ohhh lovely :')
Protest queen eli first for kiling awesome lady die. do you have guts? Yalla
Oh yeah, thanks to humans who fall trees and hurt mother earth and suck the oil by force.
Cow is beautiful. okay. pfft. one day someone wanted to buy some goats. and the sellers kept offering theirs. But she refused and she said she wanted beautiful goats. but the seller said, are you dumb? you think goats are beautiful? no goat is beautiful, or i would have married goat lol
Lol worshipping what you eat…you must be desperate
Paraphraser 😉
//"What if the man was a king? who would protest'//
Perfect democratic answer! Thanks, Narcole.
No one would protest or at least not persistently if the King and his elite were decided upon policy and actions and would brook no opposition. Except those with deathwish, but they would soon die out. And except the courageous but necessarily violent rebels, who would overthrow and kill the king and elite and their soldiers. Otherwise of necessity the King and elite would only be surrounded by sycofants, subdued and flattering uncritical people. Which is not good for good decisions on policy and actions.
But in democracy the people protest uninhibited, but the leaders get replaced without violence. While in office, the (possible) protests against them keep leaders sharp, careful, more balanced, honest etc. than a king and elite would be.
But perhaps you, Narcole, would prefer that a king (or prophet) could do anything he wants and that later on his adherents would praise him for EVERYTHING he said and did (or neglected to say/ do), regardless of whatever it was, even killing, even marrying a 6-year-old.
Damm it is hardcore I knew about the Urine but not the cow dung and NO I am not Indian .
@GallileoDavinci
I am so happy to read your testimony and yes it fills my heart with joy that my articles have been s source of enlightenment for you.
I am not preaching anything and you don’t have to accept anything I say. Not even God cares whether we believe in Him or not. If only we can love others our job is done.
In my article Should We Fear God I quotes a parable from Jesus about a king who came back from a trip and thanked his righteous subjects for feeding him when he was hungry, clothing him when he was naked, giving him water when he was thirsty, etc. When people asked when did we do these things? You were not even here. The king replied, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ (Mathew 25: 34-40)
You don’t have to believe in God or love him. If you have love for your fellow human God will love you. God is in people. Every soul is a piece of God. When you love your neighbor or even the animals, you love God. God is in all living beings. He is not in the sky or in a building. He is right here, among us, in every person you come in contact with.
//"Dismissing evidence for psi and NDEs as fraud or deception does not constitute Occams Razor.'//
//"Simply stating "deception" in the face of contrary evidence is not a competing hypothesis."//
Phoenix, I so agree with this. I am not necessarily saying that this IS what Materialist and Marathon are doing, but to me too it looks like they argue sometimes with the:
argumentum ad ignorantiam ("arguing from ignorance") — A fallacy that occurs when someone argues that because we don't know something is true, it must be false, or because we lack proof that a statement is false, it must be true. Ignorance or lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean a position or claim is true or false. Common Examples: "No one has ever proven that UFOs exist. Therefore, they don't exist." (Something can exist despite the absence of confirmation. Lack of proof is justification for caution or even scepticism, but not dogmatic assertions.) "There is simply no proof that God exists. Therefore, God doesn't exist." (God might exist even though there is no way empirically to prove it.)
Mr sakat_1408_123, a wise man will never worship an animal like a god. So, what happened to your Hindhu inner eye?
Hi someone, your above comment sounds like a love poem. It's the Golden Rule. I think that sanatandharma86 should marry a cow, since he loves cow so much. ha ha ha.
Mr sanatandharma86, what wisdom can you find in human stupidity? Instead of worshipping the true and living God of the whole universe, all these stupid human beings worship animals instead.
I am sure you are a very happy person….stay as you are, and do not enter tha labyrinth of the truth, because all you are going to gain is grief and heartaches.
And Marathon, I have read the posts of Materialist and you, and it seems to me that you 2 can be very correct and much more accomplished than I can even understand, but you are here AGAINST something, not FOR something very much. Hear me out, I am convinced that the "Darwinist" story is somehow MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL and interesting than all those religious stories.
I suppose the narrative of prof. Dawkins and his fellow scientists is so beautiful, interesting, positively developing AND ALSO VERY BENEFICIAL to mankind, that people who study and understand it can say with confidence that for them it beats even Ali Sina's theories of late it they genuinely compare these 2 sets of belief.
yes dear. and ali as co founder. mo and ali are old buddies. now that they have found their love for each other let them hallucinate lying together.
Marathon, I am glad that non-religious people segment grows the fastest. I love logic and rationality,
But I am still hoping that what Ali Sina is saying is true, because it sounds beautiful, just like indeed Deepak Chopra and the Celestine Prophecy sounded beautiful. And I was and am hoping that what they say can be reconciled with science, although I do think that studying science and seeking the truth must command top priority.
But for a long time I understood that Ali Sina was against Islam primarily because of it's incompatibility with democratic values&standards, freedom, the Golden Rule and human rights. And because of Islam's inherent supremacism and expansionism.
So the emphasis with Ali Sina was on anti-Islam and not necessarily pro-something. And so, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Christians and Atheists, all in a defensive mode, could side with Ali Sina, against the religion Islam. Not against Muslims, because in theory even "democratic Muslims" could also side with him.
And for this anti-Islamic and pro-democratic/ freedom etc. goal Ali Sina used, IMO, superb reason.
He was atheist, but he was emphatically NOT against Christianity, he was NOT against all religions, just Islam. As are the Catholic Robert Spencer and the Jewish Pamela Geller. I don't see any reason why Ali Sina can't go on on that path. I am still hoping he will bring out a movie exposing Mohammed.
And now, he has even said that finally he can present Muslims a beautiful alternative to Islam. And even if you don't like that alternative ONE BIT, it still looks like being very compatible with democratic values, freedom and golden rule to me. So for me Ali Sina goes on being a force for good regardless of what his adherents believe!
“I realized you let you emotions decide for you which book to read and which to avoid reading”
Yes of course. You call it emotion I call it intuition. I don’t expect to get any enlightenment from Chopra or Aslan. Both of them in my opinion are charlatans. If I read their books it will be for academic purposes to refute them. I doubt Aslan has any understanding of truth. I am familiar with his thinking and I know the man is a deceptive person. Such a person cannot possibly write an honest book on Jesus.
Yes Jesus was a revolutionary but not of the kinds we know today. He said my kingdom is not of this world. He said give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. You can’t equate Jesus with criminals such as Fidel Castro and Lenin. Jesus did not want to change the order of the world. He wanted to awaken man’s consciousness to God.
Yes my familiarity with the stories of NDEers is only a few weeks old, but my quest for enlightenment is decades old. I have been always after the truth and never had a preconceived idea about it. I made a pact with myself that I will accept the truth even if it means I have to throw everything I believe out of window.
dear knowtheenemy
my comments may be sarcastic but never filled with hate. what made you hink so. i came here initially to know about islam (i think i know islam more now. thanks to ali). then i visited for fun. now i come here to love ali.
DEAR ALI
Maybe what u are saying is really the way u say ..and has already started a new quest within me .
But right now I am going through transition and may take time to digest something new as I just left Islam a few days ago not even a weak, all credit goes to you I emailed u my testimony as ANONYMOUS a day before yesterday for me what ever I found on this site was so logical and rational that I not for even once found any of your allegation against my ex religion strong enough for me to defend. It was not easy for me, for first few hours I was in intense agony and even hated you and even wanted to kill you and tried to just skip it and through my laptop away but I always knew that those allegations were true . For me it didn't took time because i never needed to go verify your quoted references by myself I already was aware of all of them but had a different perceptive and you changed it .
This happened so quickly that right now even I am amazed I cannot tell in words the change which it brought in me I have not even explored the world with my new perspective, that is of an Atheist.
The hate in my heart has been replaced by love which is making me feel so good now I can have people friends from any religion without being bias with them, I don't have to force myself watch animal slaughter just to please GOD even though I always felt bad for them. I wont see the women the way I use to see you know what I mean . and many more other things. and I also don't have to waste my blood in Moharram and beat my self up! Oh yes I was not just an ordinary stupid but the extreme one (SHIA).. the only reason which brought this change in me were my guts to always go after truth even if it goes against me or my nature. Because I knew going after truth will ultimately bring peace to me and my consciousnesses. I am not yet ready to commit myself to a new belief and for me right now religion in any form what so ever has brought nothing good to this world ever. All religion in beginning say good things at first but latter brought killings and worst . I know you well even though it has not been much but some times it dont take much to know what is good or bad . You are a good person your words reflect yourself and I know you are not preaching any religion but at this very moment what you say cannot be understood by me . It may take time I dont know how much but if you are right you will find me their for sure . I am not an intellect of your level and enlightenment don't just come at once. I am with you go on with your quest. And for me right now where I stand is difficult and enough, I may not run along with you at this very moment with my staggering feet.
Regards
ANONYMOUS
hey man chucky
dont get upset dear. i did not want to drag your name here. but among all hindus visiting these pages, i found you to be the most learned and intelligent. i wanted to praise you dear. i thought you to be the apt person to write an addendum to rigged veda. yes chuck. take it as a compliment dear.
I don't think it is possible. Let those who believe in this prove it.
dear galileo (do you use this name for a purpose? then noble be it)
if you are an indian you must be aware of it by now. or you are deceiving everyone around here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/739802…
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Disturbing%20Truth…
http://www.quora.com/Hinduism/Do-Hindus-drink-cow…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,490932,00.htm…
now the fun part. quantum effects of cow urine.
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.in/2013/02/gomutra-…
Yes I believe in reincarnation now. It is funny. When I was a child I used to have frequent dreams that I was a baby deer jumping up and down with huge leaps. I am not saying those dreams meant anything, but who knows.
This was one of the three questions the Meccans asked Muhammad to test his knowledge. His answers to the two of them was false and the third one, which was about the soul he could not answer. I told you what is soul, but your prophet did not know.
"Are u saying that there were some loop holes in Gods perfect system that were unable to keep this secret as a secret and you became aware of all of it"
Yes, looks like there is a loophole. We can actually peep into the other world through meditation. I wish I knew that technique. I can't imagine how some of the Hindu sages could be so precise about the nature of the world? How could they find out all these things? I am older than Jesus and I have access to all sorts of information like Internet and books. Jesus had none of these and he found so many mysteries of the universe that I am just beginning to understand. There must be a loophole. There are many people who knew these things throughout the centuries. Some knew more and some less.
Now, with the NDE, we can get a lot of second hand information from the other world. There are thousands of stories. To get a more accurate picture, it is good to read as many of them as we can and then put them together. Each is slightly different, but the theme is the same.
As the resuscitation techniques improve, we will have more such stories and eventually everyone will accept that death is not real and God is real. This knowledge will change the world. Imagine what will happen if instead of hate we humans learn to love each other? The world will be a paradise.
For this reason I asked you once: what is your opinion about "The Zealot"? but you didn't read it, and since you made that remark about Chopra,( who I care less for), and then another remark about Aslan, I realized you let you emotions decide for you which book to read and which to avoid reading. If Aslan's book is based on historical facts, a truth seeker will read it regardless whether he likes the author or not. Jesus was not meek nor forgiving……he was a revolutionist. It depends to you if you want more facts,,,, you didn't say that you know it all; you said, more than once, that you are an ordinary person…..but I was still surprised that you've just recently came across such videos and only few days ago you heard of what so called "NDEs".
Mr Sina
I am not go into the details/or add something to NDE or OBE ,there is a great doctor here (i am communist) to discuss them.However if there is no soul or if there is no rebirth then,how a person cast his body and enter a dead body and resurrect keeping entire memory of his earlier body .What is it that travel from one body to another.The disciple went to meet his great grand master in Tibate ,the great grand master knew why his great grand disciple came to meet him .One day the master ask the disciple why you hesitate to ask the question for which you traveled this long distance from India to Tibate.The disciple after some hesitations ask for the demo of entering other body(parakaya pravesh). The master calls another Tibatian disciple and hand both of them a wooden saucer and tell them ,now i will enter this saucer hold it firmly .After some time the masters solid body coverts into mere shadow and then to a cloud and slowly travels at the saucer and enters it ,the disciple feels heaviness of the saucer .Again the masters come's out of the saucer from shadowed existence to his original form Can you explain how it was possible. (source -Living with the Himalayan Masters-by Swami Rama)
[" We we are eternal." This is another example of your blind beliefs, you did not exist before you born and also it will not exist after you die.]
And is this not your blind belief? How do you know we did not exist before we were born and will not exist after we leave this form?
You have no evidence for your blind belief. I have some. There are several verified cases of reincarnation that confirm my belief in the immortality of consciousness. The verified cases of NSE also confirm it., It is unfortunate that you don't understand the meaning of verified and keep repeating they are personal accounts. The problem is not that my facts are missing. The problem is that your comprehension is failing.
"Simply because the electron doesn't have a weewee. We are different. Why can we write a blog, but an Electron cannot?"
Electrons and atoms are denser forms of energy than consciousness. Consciousness is timeless. You can imagine something in the past and in the future. It is your consciousness that is going to the past and future. So there is nothing strange about it. We do this all the time.
The other world is timeless. Time exists only in the physical world and is another dimension of space. Time and space do not exist in the world of consciousness. This is not a difficult concept to explain and understand. You can imagine yourself sitting next to Abraham Lincoln in the Oval Office. You mind can easily do that. Your mind is your consciousness. It is the same energy that controls your body. It can be in different places and in different times.
"you want to get placed yourself on a heavenly kursi as ali the almighty"
I suppose we see the world through our own eyes. Freud was right about projection.
"hey dear. you have gone too much. and explain us ROFLMAO."
You seem to be upset? Have I shaken something in your precarious personality?
If you want the truth I never listened to Deepak Chopra or bought his books. I have difficulty accepting one who makes so much money out of his enlightenment is actually enlightened. Chopra is one of the wealthiest men in the world and goes around preaching the problem with the world is inequity. Why not start with your self Mr. enlightened?
I understand there are many charlatans in this field.
We all learn from each other. I am against titles.
I wrote about my experience some 12 years ago and also I wrote about it here http://alisina.org/blog/2013/07/20/should-we-fear…
Find the word shower, and you will come to the paragraph. There is a lot more to the experience that what I wrote here.
narcole says "Humans did modify god's messages. God exists, and he already messaged us. problem is, which messages are really from him, and which are spams. well its every persons task to find out."
I agree with you 100%. Have you ever heard of Sherlock Holmes? He was a British detective. He said if you cannot find who committed the crime, then find out who DID NOT commit the crime and start eliminating all those who clearly couldn't have committed the crime. Then whoever is left is the one who did the crime!
The above technique is accepted all over the world and is used in all fields to narrow down the options. The same technique can also be used to find which message is from real God.
You said "it's every persons task to find out" and that is exactly what we have been doing for decades. Ali Sina started this website some 15 years ago, and he used Sherlock Holmes' technique to find out the answer. He started out by finding which message is NOT from God! Quran of course was the first to fail the test.
We are still looking for the message that IS from God, but we already know one thing for dead sure- Quran could NOT be from God! Nor could Muhammad be a messenger of God!
Dear GalileoDavinci,
It was only a few weeks ago that I prayed fervently, for the first time in 17 years, that God delete me out of his world. I love animals and the cruelty done to them is not something I can accept easily. There is a lot of injustice happening in our human world, but it is nothing compared to what is going on in the animal world. We have some sort of justice that sometimes works. There is no such thing in the animal world. We can complain, animals can’t.
So I prayed, the most sincere prayer I ever said. I said oh God, I am tired of you and your world, I don’t want your paradise and I don’t want your hell. I just don’t like the way you run your business and have no trust in your wisdom and sanity. If you were sane you would have created a gentler world. There is no soul that is truly happy. What the hell is wrong with you? Why you created so many sentient beings just so that they suffer? Do you enjoy watching us suffer? Is our pain a source of entertainment for you? In the morning I woke up to find half a box of tissue paper on the floor soaked with my tears and my nose mucous. When I was an atheist, I had no expectation for justice, but it is not easy to accept injustice with an allegedly omniscient, omnipotent and loving God.
God did not come to my dream to explain things, but I gradually understood how things work. I came to accept that I am indestructible because I am a part of God. So praying that God delete me from his world does not work. He can’t delete himself so he can’t delete me. Energy is indestructible. This much we know from physics and my consciousness is energy.
What I came to understand gradually, is that even the animals that I love are not destroyed. Their soul, just like my soul, is eternal and a part of God. Their physical form is destroyed but their consciousness is unharmed. In fact this will allow them to come back, maybe in a more evolved form. In my earlier reincarnation I was also an animal. It was through death that I had the chance to be reborn and eventually become a human. Had I known this I would not have been fearful of death. Death is a lie. Death does not exist. What we perceive as death is transition. What we perceive as handicap is challenge. We choose these challenges because they allow us to evolve. God didn’t send us here. We volunteered to come here. We picked the challenges we face today because we must have thought they are important for our spiritual growth.
Our individuality is also an illusion. We are part of one reality. What happens to you is felt by every soul. This is not obvious to us while we are in this dimension.
Thank hindus they worshiped cow or else none would have left for u to slaughter …
So worshiping cow is wrong doing as per you but ,slaughtering is righteous thing .Oh!!! Muslimha you are truly dearest slave to that rat Mohammed.It show how inhuman your heart is,which you were claiming right here in this thread as pure Now tell me what harm is there if i worship a cow,people in India worship not only cow but,tree ,fish insects ,crop etc.anything and everything ,why ? you know ,because they consider everything is God .If they worship cow ,it is because of gratitude.Cow is called 'Kamadhenu",it is said in good olden day's that,a cow and a coconut tree(kalpvraxya) can sustain a family .Therefore during marriage parents of bride used to give their daughter a cow and a coconut tree for planting in her husbands house.Now just look at your views how corrupt they are ,you are happy with killing like your prophet ,this is what Ali opposes.
hahahahaha i am convinced i withdraw.
What u said above true or not but very beautiful indeed that has the reflection of yourself all i can see is a good person I really hope to have many more people like u on earth .
Mr Aryan Hindu, I don't care whether you are a feminist or not and I don't believe in any of your Hindu goddess or gods. I only believe in the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Mr someone, don't you know the fact that we, human beings are not the only one inhabit this planet earth and world? Have you forgotten all about our dear neighbours: the animals, plants and even planet earth itself? If your house is on fire, will it only affect you and not the rest of your family members too? Romans 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, you said, "Souls are indestructible. He will come back again. We have come to this physical world countless times." How in the world can you believe in such a horrible lie? The absolute truth is that you lived only once and died once or twice, which is solely dependent on your ultimate choice.
Mr Aryan Hindu, Jesus is all about unconditional love, forgiveness of sins and sacrifice. Only the devil delights in all kinds of punishment, torment and hell. Jesus has already make a provision for every sinners and it is up to Gandhi, if he would humble himself before God and accept His help. He has the ultimate choice. So, it's between God and Gandhi.
[" If so I am enemy of such God for taking away my peace and giving me luxuries which I don't want . I want infinite peace.
First god sends me to the world without my approval gave me feelings a heart and loved once then when ever he wants he takes back any thing and anyone from me he kills me and dresses me for another puppet world show even though i don't want so is this a God or a psychopath with unlimited powers……"]
Please don't take this in a wrong way, but your comment shows anger in your heart (or mind…whatever…you know what I mean).
Let's consider two scenarios- 1) God exists, 2) There is no God.
1) God exists: You are all upset with God because of all the reasons that you give, and you want answers. Or you want God declared a criminal and put in jail. Or you want a class-action lawsuit filed against God, and you want the verdict to be against God. Or you want God to stop all this charade that he is doing. Only then would you be at peace; only then would your heart become free of this anger.
2) There is no God: Now there is no one who you can put in jail, or sue, or take revenge, or otherwise do anything about anything. But the anger is still there in your heart. No amount of complaining about things or finding faults is going to change anything. The anger will most probably stay in you, and continue to make your life difficult!
Now I am no psychologist but I can tell you this much- Only in scenario 1 is there any chance of you attaining real peace, or otherwise ridding the anger.
@ the communist: you nailed part of the truth
Ali Sina, before you rush and believe in some videos…do your home work !
@Marathon 15
If you ask these questions from a religious person he will have the definite answer for all them. I am not a religious person and therefore my definite answer is “I don’t know.” However, I can theorize. My theories may or may not be true and are no better than yours.
Using logic I know that God does not create people to test them. Among all the theories this is the stupidest of all. God does not create people so he can send some to hell and others to heaven. Only the very fools can believe in this balderdash and we know who they are. If God knows everything what He wants to test us for?
God creates the physical universe. This creation is continuous. Every day new life is created and others are destroyed. The mechanism of this creation is evolution. But our consciousness is not created. (Everything has consciousness, not just humans.) Our consciousness is eternal, because it is a “piece” of God. The best example I can make is the relationship of water molecule with the ocean. Assuming the ocean is eternal its molecules are also eternal. But water molecules evaporate and fall on the land where they acquire varied experiences. They bring life to earth. Others molecules fall into a hole and become putrid. All molecules are the same, but some become rose water and others become cesspool. I think this is a good example to describe the journey of the soul in the physical world.
You ask why some children die as soon as they are born. This is like saying why some of the rain fall back into ocean and don’t enter the land like other water molecules. That is how the law of probability works. That is one of the laws on which God has built his universe. But nothing bad happens to the water that falls back into the ocean. Likewise, nothing terrible happens to a soul that enters this world and departs prematurely. Souls are indestructible. He will come back again. We have come to this physical world countless times. The water molecules that compose your body have been part of many creatures. They are indestructible, and so is your soul.
We may think it is utterly unfair that a child dies, but that is because we don’t know. He is not dead. No one can die. It is impossible to die. He just has gone back home and will come to this word again. We see this as injustice because we are ignorant of the phenomenon.
What is the point of this exercise? Why would God want to create a universe at all? I don’t know what is in the mind of God, but I suppose since God’s nature is love, He needed an object to love and hence he created the universe in his mind so he can love his own masterpiece. If the ocean’s water does not evaporate and does not mix with the dirt, there will be no life on Earth.
We are the reflection of God. God created the physical world so he can reflect his own image in it and contemplate His own beauty. ( I suppose it it is boring to have nothing to do) Is this a satisfactory answer? I don’t know. But this is all I can think of.
Matter is an illusion. Einstein proved than with his famous equation. Everything is energy. Consciousness is also energy. Consciousness is organized energy. The substance of our consciousness is the same as God. It is not a creation of God; it is a piece of God. We are thinking, loving, intelligent, curious and self-aware. These attributes exist in all animals, but not to the extent that they exist in humans. So even though our consciousness is energy, it is a much more complex form of energy than what makes your car run. God is also energy. We just can’t fathom the perfection of It. If a molecule can understand the ocean, then maybe we can understand God. However, since we can understand ourselves, we can have an idea about God.
yes indeed…..at least a cow is a gentle, beautiful creature
Be serious, Ali Sina……show me how is God kind to a beautiful fawn with beasts surrounding him and tearing him apart !
*sobs* mean….:'/
There is no such a thing as a "loving god"…..look around you !
You are not innocent; you are a playful brat
Whats wrong with worshipping cow?!?!? X'D
I like your speech….but, unfortunately, we cannot make preferences, and it is not up to you or to me to decide…as it was not up to us to be here in the first place.
Your last comment was about the king's wrongdoings, now you are changing the subject to those who point out the wrongdoings.
And why would anyone 'punish' brahmins for worshipping cow? What's wrong with worshipping cow??
The second part of your statement does not confirm the first part
If I have a cow, I will love her and be very kind to her…never harm or let anybody to harm her…..but I will not worship her.
So why didnt the king punish the brahmins for worshipping cow? 😉 ali, do you think cow is god? x'D
Lol were british in the past and in present same persons?
Can you explain why my heart is so innocent and pure :')
@ communist
It is amazing how much hatred some people have in their hearts. If you don't like what Ali has to say, why do you spend so much time on this site? Are there no other websites on the Internet?
You r rite I apologize for being wrong in selection of my words.
There many things in your faith which u cant explain which proves your religion is lame…
Some animals can beat most of fellow humans in morality easily if u don't believe that than I welcome u to my country 😛
Yeah lets make a NDE and OBE club and make Mo founder of it. as he has been hallucinating all his life.
Actually it was Muhammad who said "Oppression is worse than slaughter", but he was WRONG. It is slaughter that is far far worse than oppression. When British ruled India, they were cruel and oppressed the people. Then times changed, the British went back, and Indians were free, that is, they were no longer oppressed. Today when you go to India, you see lots of happy people .
But what if the British had slaughtered everyone? In that case when the British went back, there would have been no oppression-free Indians; there would have been no people alive at all!
Therefore it is murder and slaughter that is far worse. Oppression can change, but slaughtered people canNOT be brought back to life.
So why did Muhammad call oppression worse? Because he wanted to slaughter others and wanted to justify it. And he knew that his followers would just blindly believe whatever he says and would be ready to murder people.
How can someone assume findings of this extent accurately which were put in veil by the great GOD against his will….. ?
When did Ali Sina ever say that he wants OTHERS to believe in any particular thing?? You are clearly new here! He is only saying what he thinks is the case.
I suggest you read 10-12 of Ali's articles before you start posting comments!!
Dear Eagle,
I am an ordinary person, with no pretenses of reforming the society or any of those big megalomaniac plans. I will share my views just as before. If someone thinks they are worth anything and are inspired and enlightened by them that is the biggest achievement. It is my hope that others will build on this and advance this knowledge. Just like any science, the science of the spiritual realm cannot be learned from one person. It must advance through the input of many. I think this science is not born yet. We have religions and their unscientific approach on one hand and quantum physics and its bewilderment in interpreting the nature on the other. I think we can create a new science that is based on both.
Every knowledge was a secret…..but in this case of Ali, it is not knowledge; it is an assumption.
Ok…..this is the result of the man's sin, but what sin the animals commetted to deserve this destiny?
Ali, 'Guru' simply means teacher. It does not mean 'prophet'. When someone learns something useful or valuable from someone else (or even something else), then that someone/ something is his/her guru. Everyone has gurus (one or more)! You have gurus too; you simply use different names for them.
Many people including myself have learnt enough from you to significantly change our outlook towards life, and that is why we call you Guru. And it doesn't matter that you were never looking to be someone's Guru. The real Gurus rarely do. Of course, seeing someone as your Guru does not mean to blindly believe them.
When we learn something from someone, then calling him Guru just feels like the right thing to do. For example, when someone helps you out, you send them a thank you card. You send that card not because the guy asked for it, but because you feel that it is the right thing to do.
In India in the past, the brahmin members of king's council (kind of like majlis) protested if they saw the king doing something that was clearly wrong. They had a constitutional right not to be penalized for pointing out the king's wrongdoings.
dear ali
explain us heisenberg's uncertainty principle and why should the speed of light be a constant. then you can try to create your theory on quantum relativity.
i bet you know nothing about anything.
you want to get placed yourself on a heavenly kursi as ali the almighty. like the absurd explanation you gave to a gay boy here to watch porn ideos to change his sexuality, and as family Councillor for broken marriages, and as a medical doctor treating cancer with sodabicarb and green vegetables, and now a hindoo seer. but dont you think you are going too much to educate the physicists about quantum theory. (FYKI classical physics is newtonian physics and not general relativity).
hey dear. you have gone too much. and explain us ROFLMAO.
@i am a communist,
//some day later chuck may add few verses in rig veda on you name. //
Or may be you would add a few more TODO in the Communist Manifesto.
let us be honest ali. you got all these hindoo harlots behind you and you have amassed a gathering of them at your back. to keep them in your good company you need all these stories. like the lightening experience you got in your shower (now these cow dung eaters will call it kundalini arousal. keep it up). i expected good story from you later on but this is fantabulous and mind blowing. you cal keep all of them behind you. these chucky, sakat, kafir, IHIslam and all. you are in the process of becoming a seer of hindoo cult. who knows, some day later chuck may add few verses in rig veda on you name.
carry on ali.
dear ali sina sir
believing in unverified youtube videos as science is reason. heh . according to you if one is not a maverick he is dogmatic. like not "believing" in fungus causing cancer is medical dogmatism. long live ali sina and his reasoning.
Everything which dosent suits your claim is wrong .. Right!
dear materialist.
ali sina is not a skeptic. he is an opportunist. he believes what he wants to believe. if that suits him he will start to believe in flying saucers, and abducting aliens. there are "million evidences" for them also.
I know exactly what Occam s razor means.
What if the man was a king? who would protest 😉
Yeaaaah….al isra' :85 "And they ask you, about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."
"Since the assumptions in either hypothesis must recognize that the event or phenomena did occur." The event in this case is the CLAIM that the soul went walk about in a hospital. "Simply stating "deception" in the face of contrary evidence is not a competing hypothesis." Their is no OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE for a immaterial soul.
Wow! Who are you…i agree.mmm
" We we are eternal." This is another example of your blind beliefs, you did not exist before you born and also it will not exist after you die. In-fact our consciousness changes every moment of our lives. For example the "Ali Sina" that exists now is very different from the toddler that was Ali Sina. So this is another pile of baloney from you.
" I don't know. Maybe we need that kind of challenge." The answer is no such thing happens.
"But why we don't have any memory of our past existence?" Because your brain did not exist perhaps?
"This is just my thinking. I could be wrong." You are definitely wrong.
Yes and what exactly was it you learned from "the source of all knowledge"?. If is was some of the nonsense you have been coming out with then it is clear you did not learn anything.
Mr. Materialist if you have time please watch the movie The Contact based on Karal Sagen book.
You will be more clear of this scientific term Occam s razor .Phoenixx has given the correct meaning of it .
And what makes you think that Ali Sina might not have heard about this word,when you yourself do not know the meaning of Occam s razor .
Why do u want others and yourself to believe in GOD and afterlife against the will of god as this deception for god not existing is created by god himself , as claimed by u … are u not going against the will and system created by god … It is you who is deceiving others and your self !
Agracean Do you really believe Jesus is going to torture Gandhi in hell for eternity ?
Have u ever heard that fitnah is crueler than murder?
Dont be fooled by fitnah words. do you believe fitnah? Is fitnah your belief? so you're fitnah maker..or fitnah follower?
ALI
You are proving your self wrong by neglecting the fact that afterlife is to be kept in veil in this deceptive world according to you… and yet you are claiming to know about afterlife and so many others by what so ever either OBE or NDE ….
Are u saying that there were some loop holes in Gods perfect system that were unable to keep this secret as a secret and you became aware of all of it what was meant to be a secret for humans in this deceptive world in simple worlds by what you are saying we can come to the conclusion that there are some loopholes in the Gods Matrix world which became responsible for some people to get aware about after life.
OR
the system which was made to deceive humans by GOD was not perfect enough to deceive you and hold u from knowing the secrets of after life .. is it what u are trying to say?
Osama who?whats the relation with islam?
See, it makes you smile and feel happiness :')
Ali never said he hates Muslim it is your presumption (all Muslims here),yes he said he hate Islam and Quran and the messenger ,if he loves the messenger then it would meant ,he support pedophile ,which he even never will do in his dream hahaha!!!
Agracean Do you believe in Goddess ? Do you think it is satanic to consider the creator of the universe as our mother and represent her in human female form ?. We all know that women are more humane than men.I am a feminist and believe women are superior to men by birth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saktism
What belief Ali Sina took from Islam ?….his 'religion' resembles Hinduism the most .
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, I would like to dedicate this song to you. 🙂 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhvXOIVsRv4
Mr someone, in the beginning, God created everything good and perfect until human beings brought sin into this world and as a result, sin is destroying everything good and perfect.
I am not sure, but I noticed that Ali Sina had adopted some beliefs from Muslims, other beliefs from Christians, others from Hindus and Budhists…then he formed his unique religion by taking a bit of each. I think this is a good idea, combining all religions in one, so that people stop fighting.
According to what you said, roaches, spiders, scorpions, bacteria…etc, are also the creation of God……this god is ironic, he created us and made sure to invent some destructive creatures to finish us….and he loves us! By the way, the Muslims also say that when we die the veil is removed from our eyes, and our sight becomes very clear to see what we did.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, we see the law of cause and effect in every facet of life. The outcome of life is all about rewards and punishments. There are always consequences dogging the footsteps of those who break the laws of God. Despite all our failures and rebellion against Him, God provides an effective solution at great personal sacrifice.
Mr sanatandharma86, the truth is that reincarnation or rebirth is a big lie and many gullible people believe in it. Even though that two years old boy could recall WWII past events at such a young age doesn't mean that rebirth or reincarnation is true at all. It is the same with monks, fortune teller or soothsayers or necromancer who can tell some past events too. Sometimes, we have to look far beyond the evidences and think a bit further, in order to grasp the absolute truth. I would like to ask you and my dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, who in this world can live long enough to witness every happenings on earth from BC to AD and then, from the 1st century till now and never die? Isn't it easy for him to deceive those gullible people by just simply revealing those past events to them and let them believe that rebirth or reincarnation is true?
Oh, I see alright. Everyone please make a note of what Ali has said here:
– "Before the fetus is formed, our consciousness is in the other world with other souls. We choose to come here. No one sends us. We decide to come because here is where there is action."
– "We have come to earth and maybe to other planets countless times. Time does not exist in the other world, so we are actually living our past, present and future lives simultaneously. If an electron can do that, why not consciousness? "
Simply because the electron doesn't have a weewee. We are different. Why can we write a blog, but an Electron cannot?
You cant compare electrons and human beings. You are really trying to pull a Deepak Chopra here. Trust me, it wont work.
It would have been better if you had stuck to your previous approach of not bringing in God/science/spirits topics. You'll find out.
As I said, the young generation doesn't care about God and the concept of God continues to disappear from developed countries and developing countries will follow suit eventually.
The kind of things you've started saying are laughable and but also a little disappointing. Humans need that crutch to believe in after life but most young people realize this and stay away as I mentioned.
"We are never born and will never die." — Are you also saying that the number of souls has already been determined and cannot be changed?
Which means even accidental pregnancies have been written into stone. An infinite number of souls has been created so the Human being factory can keep existing?
Guys, ALI is the new DEEPAK CHOPRA.
He says he wants to link up God and science.
Ali:
Quantum physics, metaphysics, quantum entanglement? You must have started reading Deepak Chopra. He's a complete conman (watch his short interview with Richard Dawkins on youtube. See link below). His objective is to make money from gullible people. Here's the video where one of the things Richard Dawkins says "What does Quantum physics have to do with what you're teaching? QP is a fact repeatable in a lab. What you are teaching, is not and has no relation to QP": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPP89L23A-c (4 min only – very entertaining)
Maybe your objective is the same. You realized that there's a lot of money to be made by selling "God" stuff than there is for "no religion". I predict your next book will be about these new beleifs of yours. Or maybe I'm giving you ideas.
In any case you will start to be like Deepak Chopra and will start selling the same kinds of new-age "God" books that he does.
> People want to believe in God. Now I can give them an alternative.
No, as I pointed out, the fastest group in America is "non-religious". Only old people want to believe in God. Young people know that religion and belief in God is silly. But you have started preaching about God because you want to try selling that.
And no, you cannot have more effect on Muslims because you are teaching them about a different concept of God. They will not leave Islam and start following prophet Ali Sina.
>> And I predict that the knowledge of God will fill the world and the world will become a paradise. .
That has been said millions of times before and yet religion is dying. No, there wont be a revival.
>> God must be understood and explained with rational thinking. We should not believe in God because He is absurd, as Tertulian said. We can believe in God because He makes perfect sense. So help me God.
So once again, explain this rationally: If God cant even prevent infants from being born with cancer and birth defects, what exactly does he do for humanity?
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, whether you like it or not, you have to admit the fact that you are the love product of your father's spermatozoa and your mother's egg and they were the ones who gave birth to you. You don't just exist only in their thoughts or any Tom, Dick or Harry's thought. You are forever your parent's love souvenir and it would be really silly of you to believe that this awesome universe operates through our thoughts.
Ali will not respond to this. He knows if he does, he will be letting people know he believes in external consciousness but not re-birth because he knows rebirth sounds even more silly than the concept of external consciousness.
As to what reasons he gives for re-birth not being a valid concept, we will have to see.
Ali,
"God does not punish people." – Alright I guess I can start asking you the same questions I ask other people: If God cannot even prevent infants from dying with Sudden Death Infant Syndrome, what is his utility? "He wants to test us." Right?
What exactly does God do for human beings? You're going to say "Nothing". So he just created the Universe and went into deep sleep? Or is he busy watching TV and started drinking heavily?
Further, how do you know what God does and does not do, or is and is not? You havent talked to him, let alone met him. Yet like other God believers you claim to know everything about God. We're seeing the (partial) fall of Ali Sina. He knows he's reached his peak some time ago so might as well start being honest with people now. That would be fine but Godlessness/non-religiousness is the preference for young people as they know religion and the concept of God is silly. Ali Sina is a religious man. He believes in God very seriously, just like Muslims do.
He is one God away from being an atheist because he does not believe in all the other Gods that people believe in (4 billion people believe in the Abrahamic God that he does not believe in)
After having this knowledge, whats your next plan. Any plan to work socially or as a reformer.
@Ali Sina Sir,
Below passage of your article make sense concept of rebirth true. Am I correct?
"A two years old boy remembers that in his past life he was a pilot and was killed by the Japanese. He names his ship, his airplane and his navy pal. His parents verify all his information including his friends who is still alive and is in his eighties."
Dismissing evidence for psi and NDEs as fraud or deception does not constitute Occams Razor.Since the assumptions in either hypothesis must recognize that the event or phenomena did occur.Simply stating "deception" in the face of contrary evidence is not a competing hypothesis.
@Ali Sina
//First of all my feet are not pious//
This is our way to respect a sage/philosopher like you.
[I bow in pious feet of Ali Sina.]
For heaven’s sake! First of all my feet are not pious. I am just an ordinary guy and very much imperfect. And why should any person bow in front of another human, let alone someone imperfect like me? I understand that Indians have a florid language and really they don’t mean that, even then, I don’t see any need for such words.
But I agree that there are pearls of wisdom in Hinduism as well as in the teachings of Jesus and Buddha. Any pure soul can reflect the light of God.
No I am not a deist and God is not apathetic. We exist in the mind of God, literally. We are the product of God’s imagination. He is very much aware of ever atom in His universe. The universe operates through thoughts, not his, but our thoughts. We manifest the universe with our thoughts. When I say we I mean all the creation, not just humans. Everything is consciousness and alive.
God does not punish people. We punish ourselves. When we die, the veil is removed and we realize what we did and the effect of our actions on others. This awareness is more than intellectual awareness. We feel everything we did to other as if we are them. Watch this video.
[youtube 1tiKsKy7lFw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tiKsKy7lFw youtube]
@Ali Sina
I bow in pious feet of Ali Sina.
Ali what you are preaching now same thing was preached by Krishna in Bhagwat Geeta 5000 years before. Please have you a look
Chapter 2, Verse 20.
For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. Saul is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. Saul is not slain when the body is slain.
Chapter 2, Verse 22.
As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.
Chapter 2, Verse 23.
The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.
Chapter 2, Verse 28.
All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when they are annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?
Chapter 2, Verse 70.
A person who is not disturbed by the incessant flow of desires–that enter like rivers into the ocean which is ever being filled but is always still–can alone achieve peace, and not the man who strives to satisfy such desires.
Chapter 2, Verse 71.
A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of false ego–he alone can attain real peace.
Chapter 2, Verse 72.
That is the way of the spiritual and godly life, after attaining which a man is not bewildered. Being so situated, even at the hour of death, one can enter into the kingdom of God.
Hey Ali,
If according to you God exists, would he punish us and reward us according to our deeds?
Or would your God be the deist one who would be apathetic.
What are your opinions on this?
Thanks. (I also believe that it's time for you to write a new book.)
@Marathon 15
[Here's another question: If consciousness exists after we die, where was it 10 years before before we were born? What about aborted fetuses? When does a consciousness start to exist in the womb? ]
Consciousness is not created. Our consciousness is a piece of God's consciousness. We we are eternal. We are never born and will never die. Before the fetus is formed, our consciousness is in the other world with other souls. We choose to come here. No one sends us. We decide to come because here is where there is action. Through interaction with matter we experience things that we can't experience in the other world where we are in pure state of consciousness.
We have come to earth and maybe to other planets countless times. Time does not exist in the other world, so we are actually living our past, present and future lives simultaneously. If an electron can do that, why not consciousness?
And when do we choose a fetus to use as our vehicle? Before the fetus is formed. We choose our parents and wait until they conceive our body so we can occupy it. Now you may ask why in the world someone would choose to be born to a drunkard and a sadist. I don't know. Maybe we need that kind of challenge.
I can make an example. Why people leave the comfort of their homes and go camping? Why not stay at home, sleep in warm bed, have your hot shower, take your food from the fridge and prepare it on a stove? Why pitch a tend in the jungles, hunt or gather your food, prepare it on fire, sleep in a sleeping bag and take bath in the cold water of the river? Some even go further and decide to climb a mountain. Are they crazy? They do that for the experience of it. They enjoy the trill. 80 or 90 years seem a long time to us, but compared to eternity it is nothing. So we come to this world, to face its challenges.
But why we don't have any memory of our past existence? Because if we all know this world is just a game, no one will take it seriously. When people play cards, they play over a little money. It is just to make it exciting. Only when there is gain and loss, there is excitement. That is why our past memory is erased.
This is just my thinking. I could be wrong. I am sure we will know the truth when we meet in the other world.
[Ali, in your sub-conscious you probably want to be admired/seen/worshiped as some kind of Buddha or prophet]
Why do you think that? Are you a mind reader? I have no desire for self glory. I am quite down to earth. The image most people have of me is false. I don't have thoughts of being a leader or a guru. I want to be an instrument of love, of peace and of service to humanity. And I could not care being admired. I get my satisfaction when people write to me and say I saved them from ignorance.
["But there's hope. The non-religious is the fastest growing group in America. Religion is dying in Europe."]
I don't care much about religion. None has served humanity. But I predict a revival in belief in God.
I was going to write a long article demonstrating how metaphysics can bridge the chasm between classical physics (the general theory of relativity) and quantum physics and how the theory of a holographic universe solves the mystery of quantum entanglement, and the measurement problem. These two are the biggest puzzles of science. But maybe I will expand the idea and write a booklet.
I believe the reason scientists haven't been able to marry these two branches of physics yet is because they are missing the big picture, the consciousness. This seems absurd since matter comes into being only through consciousness.
The reason people have turned away from God is because of the religions that are based on ancient superstitions. We can rediscover God through science. This is a path less trodden and even ignored. I think I know how to do that. God must be understood and explained with rational thinking. We should not believe in God because He is absurd, as Tertulian said. We can believe in God because He makes perfect sense. So help me God.
Muslims have always asked me, give us an alternative and I told them they should choose their path. People want to believe in God. Now I can give them an alternative. Of course they are always free to believe in what they please, but once they come to know a God that makes sense it will be much easier for them to abandon their faith based on ignorance and embrace one that is based on reason and science. Just to make sure you don't misunderstand me, I am not going to start a new religion. Just replace the faith in God with the knowledge of God
And I predict that the knowledge of God will fill the world and the world will become a paradise. .
@Ali Sina
Ali Sina your views very similar to many Hindu sages.
@Narcole
Osama can not be terrorist because Osama means Lion like in Arabic.
All non-Islamic world is ignorant when they say Osama was a terrorist.
Is it okey?
@Gracey
God dwells in every creature ,one need inner eye to comprehend it.
/islam is peaceful / Good joke hahaha!!!!.
@Agracean
Cow is most beneficial animal for mankind & universe. Hindu sages were aware about this fact since thousand of years but christian were fools they discovered it recently & Muslim are still fool. Thanks to Hindu sages wisdom. That is why cow slaughtering are heinous crime for Hindus.
You are right, I am not naive.
As for one mother lying, this can happen. People do desperate things for their 15 seconds of fame and attention. But we can't dismiss all the stories of NDE because someone is caught lying. Also in this case the liars are often caught easily because those who have had NDE undergo dramatic life changes, which is proof they are not just saying this for a little attention. They become more loving and leave their jobs to work in areas that help people. The change in their character and priority is proof that their experience has been real at least to them.
Whats your religion? If its Christianity or Judaism, thats not the God that Ali believes in. He has his own version of God like billions of God believers on Earth who know "God" intimately even though they have never met him, let alone talk to him.
Ali is also not a "know all". He's a very average person with a certain set of defective beliefs and personality traits (like every human). Don't depend on him for anything. Figure it out on your own.
Main purpose of memories? To help us remember where we parked the car or what we called our children. Things like that. Life is simple.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, do you know what is the main purpose of memories? Do you know the reason why after our flesh died, our memories still live? It's all about accountability. Our loving Creator God has made us in such a way that be it alive or dead, no one can stand before Him and give the excuse that we can't remember anything at all. He demands accountability from every human being. We are spiritual beings.
Mr Aryan Hindu, is that cow in the picture your god?
narcole is from Indonestan… :))
"Its not convincing. They are silly. I don't buy that nonsense." – and NEITHER DO WE. Is that all you had to say for that link? Alright well. I watched your videos. "They're not convincing and they are silly. I dont buy THAT nonsense." How's that.
Anyway. Materialist, yes thats what we have here. Its another type of irrationality of the believer's brain. They ignore science and facts. I had quoted multiple times saying that "science does not support the idea of OBE" with 3 references and Ali points me to the video of this woman saying she was standing under the breath of God.
Great job Ali. Its ok though. You've still done a lot of work against Islam that has had some effect. You get credit for that and like everyone else, the choice to believe in whatever you want.
There are 1.5 billion Muslims who think Muhammad flew on a winged horse to heaven, a few million who believe in Scientology and here we have Ali, one man believing in OBE and a woman saying she was standing under the breath of God. No big deal. The world is full of people with irrational beliefs. They think their beliefs are right and others are "dogmatic" and close minded and will never see the "truth".
But there's hope. The non-religious is the fastest growing group in America. Religion is dying in Europe. Young people know all kinds of "beliefs" are BS. Thats something good about the future of humanity.
Ali, in your sub-conscious you probably want to be admired/seen/worshiped as some kind of Buddha or prophet. Not going to happen. Those times are long gone. We have the internet now. Statements can be checked at right away. You may also have the desire like many others to defeat death in some way so you want to believe in afterlife.
Here's another question: If consciousness exists after we die, where was it 10 years before before we were born? What about aborted fetuses? When does a consciousness start to exist in the womb? When the sperm and egg join together? Does God step in and "breath" consciousness into the woman's vagina in some way? (Allah says he breathed into Mary's vagina). Your beliefs in God, soul/spirit and afterlife are not too different from Muslims. They are similar. Of course you would say "My god is better than yours". (yawn)
As usual, when it comes to God and OBEs and related topics, you will say statements with the attitude that they are unquestionable facts when in fact they have no basis in reality.
I read the explanation that site gives for Pam and for blinds. They are not convincing. They beat around the bushes. This is not logical explanation and I don't buy that nonsense.
I understand the desperation of materialists and atheists in trying to say something, but what they say is silly.
"If you did not die then how do you know this all did not happen in your brain?"
The information I received was something I did not know. I doubt my brain is capable of making up all that i such a short time. Furthermore what I learned in those few seconds are confirmed by NDEers. I have written about my experience before. I will write more about things I learned in just a few seconds. I had dismissed that experience. Now I realize it was something more that imagined. I must have made a brief connection to the Source of all the Knowledge – maybe God. I tried to repeat the experience to no avail.
Ali,
I can see that you expect people to watch 3 hours and 30 minutes of videos but you will not click on a single link from us because you are afraid of what what it says. The link says (you can click of you want to see the indentations and links in the text): http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augu…
————————-
Pam reported that during her OBE, she was able to view the operating room from above the head surgeon's shoulder, describing her out-of-body vision as "brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision" (41). In her report of the experience, she offered three verifiable visual observations. First, she said that "the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar. I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not." Second, she reported that the bone saw "looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it, a groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle, but it didn't." Finally, she noted that "the saw had interchangeable blades … in what looked like a socket wrench case" (41). Subsequently, she only reported auditory observations—hearing the bone saw "crank up" and "being used on something"—but most notably the operating room conversation initiated by Dr. Murray.
Given such vivid 'perceptual capabilities' during her OBE, we would expect there to be no confusion about what Pam saw during the experience. So her visual observations provide an interesting test of the notion that her soul left her body while under general anesthesia during normal body temperature. Let us look at each of these in turn.
First, there is the observation that only part of her head was shaved. Perhaps she could have guessed this at the time of her experience, but there is no need even for this in order to account for the reported observation. Surely Pam would have noticed this soon after awaking from general anesthesia—by seeing her reflection, feeling her hair, or being asked about it by visitors. And she certainly would have known about it, one way or the other, by the time she was released from the hospital. Indeed, if her hair had been shaved presurgery, or at any time prior to her general anesthesia, she would have known about it well before her OBE. And patients undergoing such a risky procedure are standardly given a consent briefing where even the cosmetic effects of surgery are outlined—if not explicitly in a doctor's explanation, then at least incidentally in any photographs, diagrams, or other sources illustrating what the procedure entails. So Pam may have learned (to her surprise) that her head would be only partially shaved in a consent briefing prior to her experience, but 'filed away' and consciously forgot about this information given so many other more pressing concerns on her mind at the time. That would be exactly the sort of mundane, subconscious fact we would expect a person to recall later during an altered state of consciousness.[21] And although we are not given the exact date of the operation, Sabom reports that the procedure took place in August 1991 (38). He later tells us that he interviewed Pam for the first time on November 11, 1994 (186). That leaves over three years between the date of Pam's NDE and Sabom's interview—plenty of time for memory distortions to have played a role in her report of the experience. So there is nothing remarkable about this particular observation.
Second, there is her description of the bone saw. But the very observation that provides the greatest potential for supporting the notion that she actually left her body during her OBE actually tends to count against that hypothesis. As Sabom recounts,
Pam's description of the bone saw having a "groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle" was a bit puzzling…. [T]he end of the bone saw has an overhanging edge that [viewed sideways] looks somewhat like a groove. However, it was not located "where the saw appeared to go into the handle" but at the other end.
Why had this apparent discrepancy arisen in Pam's description? Of course, the first explanation is that she did not "see" the saw at all, but was describing it from her own best guess of what it would look and sound like (187).
Precisely! Except that, of course, Pam didn't need to guess what the bone saw sounded like, since she probably heard it as anesthesia failed. An out-of-body discrepancy within Pam's NDE prima facie implies the operation of normal perception and imagination within an altered state of consciousness. Indeed, this explanation is so straightforward that Sabom considers it before all others. And it is telling that the one visual observation that Pam (almost) could not have known about other than by leaving her body was the very detail that was not accurate.
(read the rest on the link) as it wont allow me to post everything
———-
So as Materialist said you prefer in believing in the supernatural explanation. This showed you are biased in your evaluation of these things and you also ignore the facts.
[ You mean if I abandon reason and start to believe any nonsense on blind faith.]
No. I mean you have to abandon dogmatism and embrace reason. You have no understanding of reason. You think reason is anything that confirms your prejudices. There is no person who believes he or she is unreasonable. Rejecting the stories I posted as evidence of NDE with the lame rebuttals provided by skeptics site is unreasonable. It is nothing but adherence to the materialistic dogma.
I love u I love the world and its creation and in return don't want to have any eternal life in heaven or with any luxuries in return and like most of others and u i would prefer getting back to the piece where I was before taking birth u can not say that my soul was for ever and will be for ever . If so I am enemy of such God for taking away my peace and giving me luxuries which I don't want . I want infinite peace.
First god sends me to the world without my approval gave me feelings a heart and loved once then when ever he wants he takes back any thing and anyone from me he kills me and dresses me for another puppet world show even though i don't want so is this a God or a psychopath with unlimited powers may be if this is the case than we atheists will be the ones to starting rebellion … WE ARE SIMPLY WASTING TIME HERE
I agree u and what ever u said,… that has always been the problem of humans they don't know how to tackle death so they always come up with an idea of defeating death by giving all lame and stupid reasoning and ideas and justify it just to satisfy their ego and they don't want to die i know the humans are scared as hell of being rotting up and ending up in nothing that they keep on denying, do u care where were u before being born no I don't.. because I know that there was no me before my birth so why should be so concerned about life after that .. THE fact is that every human want to be the GOD by enjoying an eternal life after death ….. I respect atheists to admit facts and yet not search for peace of mind because for most of the people they only get peace of mind after believing in fairy tales that ensures their existence to infinity
The believe that atheists adhere is quite sane and less arrogant with no egos, I was nothing and I will end up nothing and still i will do the good deeds to fellow humans and abide by the laws of human rights without any greed of afterlife or heaven or Virgins …….
Whilst others always try to find the easy way out by blaming there bad deed were caused by demon devil shaitan or Lucifer and doing good in the hope of having more luxuries in after life LAME LAME LAME isn't it
@Marathon 15,
Even if her brain was active, it was still impossible for her to see the instrument of surgery used while under operation. People are not awake watching the surgery on their heart.
"Pam's case has been SOUNDLY refuted"
No it hasn't been refuted and it is irrefutable. It does not matter how much you capitalize the soundly. Your conviction just proves your bias. It does not disprove the facts.
The parents did not know the sex of the baby. But the child knew it. Now this is not verifiable. What is verifiable is the fact that he knew of the existence of such a sibling and was accurate also about her age.
As long as you deny the existence of soul to you it sounds like a dead fetus communicating. But the very fact that the child woke up with an information that he should not have, prove that soul is real.
You can't make sense of any of this unless you have a shift in paradigm. This is beyond your capability. YOu are not the kind of person who is able to have paradigm shifts. Your brain does not have such power, so don't worry about it. A very small percentage of people are capable of that.
The reason I believe in another world is because it is the only plausible explanation of the verifiable NDEs. Even if we assume all other non verifiable experiences are hallucinations, we cannot dismiss the verifiable ones.
The other reason I believe there is another hidden dimension is because I myself had a very short glimpse into it many years ago. I did not die nor I was out of body. I was fully awake taking shower and suddenly entered into a different dimension and learned things instantly that was impossible for me to come up by thinking about them.
I wish I knew the answer to this question. I don't know. But all those who have had NDE say that the only thing that matters in this world is love. We are here to love others, help them and love ourselves too.
Looks like God whose nature is love wanted an object to love and made this world so He can love his own handiwork, in the same way that a painter loves and admires his work.
But the real answer is that I don't know. I suppose we all know it but while in this dimension, that memory is taken away from us.
I think this deception is needed. If everything becomes clear and everyone realizes that this world is a dream no one will take it seriously. We have to take this world seriously, stay in it and work to make it better. There is a purpose to it, even though it eludes us. When we say it is unreal, it is only in comparison to the the world of God. Reality is relative and in this space-time continuum this world is real and must be treated as such.
ALI
you are making up stories about the afterlife like all other religions if u are not lying about it than why imagination and stuff . imaginations are false inconsistent truth do not need imaginations . like, let me tell u the what i think about of god and afterlife the truth is that u or any one else can never ever tell about afterlife and God. Life and death are actually so exclusively mutual that u or any one else can only speculate about it other than that is whole lies and nothing but the lies. AND as far as God is concerned it is human nature to get fascinated by the thought of discovering God but the truth is that no one ever was and will be able to discover what God is to the slightest of extent in this life . Maybe lifeafter death and God are not at all meant for this life or for this material world, than why waste time why not just play our role in this life with peace and go to the next as simple as that it is people like u who always in the history of world created religions which latter in all cases resulted in mass killings and sufferings of human kind leave the work of God for the God and let nature do the work.
"Why it is pathetic?" Did you even watch that video? The parents admitted they lost the baby before they even found out the sex. "there is no way for the child to know his mother had a miscarriage if no one had told him that. " Sure its absolutely impossible yeah okay buts it plausible a dead fetus is communicating with him from the afterlife right? Yeah okay Mr rational.
"Really? Can people be awake and watch everything while their heart is being pulled out in the operation room?" Her OBE happened before she was clinically dead, do the research next time before just taking someone at their word.
"The difference between you and I is that I have always been committed to truth no matter where it takes me and how much I stand to loose." I am still waiting for you to tell me how you know their is a heaven and hell and how do you know everything is conscious? Also what about your other nonsense claim that heart stores memories? Any proofs for these truth seeker?
"you want to be right." You want to survive your own death, talk about projection.
Ali, as for any religious believer you ignore every piece of information that conflicts with your "beliefs" (for example refutation of heart storing memories).
The Pam Reynolds case has been proven false. The surgeon was a Jesus freak. How can you take his word for what he says? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case
The page says:
– "However, critics and skeptics have shown that the claims can be explained through prosaic and conventional means."
– "Reynolds supposed Near "Death" Experience has been put forward as evidence supporting the survival hypothesis by proponents such as Michael Sabom in his book Light & Death, but critics say that the amount of time which Reynolds was 'flatlined' is generally misrepresented and her claimed NDE occurred when she was merely under general anesthesia and the brain was still active, hours before Reynolds is supposed to have "died.""
So can you read that? Her brain was STILL ACTIVE. 3 references are given for that statement on the Wikipedia article. Did you read the link? Further, the brain can be very active for a while after there's no heartbeat. There's still blood in the brain and it takes TIME for the brain to completely die. You didnt know that?
Pam's case has been SOUNDLY refuted here. Please read it. You expect us to watch 3 hours and 30 minutes of videos so its fair that you should read this link: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augu…
There is NOTHING from people writing from your point of view that deals with the Pam case in such details and deals with the arguments made in the above link. What does that tell you? Did the Pam case really happen in the way you believe it did? No.
You should make a separate debate about Pam Reynolds case and prove your point of view.
What else do you have? If Pam Reynold's case is the strongest evidence you have for OBE, then you have nothing left. You present bits and pieces of information in support of your world view and when they are all examined in detail, they are proven to be false. This is how everyone proves Islam wrong too.
Sri Ali Sina sir …
When you get free time please read this book.. This is a very strange(and very old) book of Hinduism. The book deals with human conciseness. Written by Valmiki the SAGE WHO WROTE RAMAYANA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Vashista http://yoga-vasistha.blogspot.in/ http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/yoga-v… http://www.dlshq.org/discourse/jul2002.htm http://yoga-vasistha.blogspot.in/
The main theme of Yoga Vashishtha is that the soul is undergoing a dream from which it must awake. This dream represents our association and identification with the world. The fact that it is described as being a dream means that whatever is in it has to be false. Nothing in a dream can be true. Waking up from that dream is the ultimate goal, Self-realization.
“Obviously you do not want to admit that, as then your whole house of cards will start to down.”
This is projection my friend. It is you who live in a house of cards and are unwilling to admit it. I was living there too until a few weeks ago, but when I saw the evidence my house of cards fell apart, but unlike you who don’t want to admit it, I just got out of it.
You say the story of the boy seeing his unborn sister of whom he had no knowledge is pathetic. Why it is pathetic? Unless you claim that the whole story is fake and everybody is conspiring to fool others, there is no way for the child to know his mother had a miscarriage if no one had told him that.
And you say Pam Raynolds was not unconscious. Really? Can people be awake and watch everything while their heart is being pulled out in the operation room?
Her surgeon testified to the validity of her story. But you know better? You are trapped in your little world. The difference between you and I is that I have always been committed to truth no matter where it takes me and how much I stand to loose. This allowed me to get out of Islam and now to get out of atheism. With this attitude you will never be able to see any light. You are simply not after the truth. you want to be right.
ok i beleave it whats the point . whats the whole point behind all this matrix whythe hell are we being treated like pupets in this world without our permission in matrix the machines which were doing this to humans were vilans so u are saying that the god controlling us rite now is the villan and we are awaiting hero (Keanu Reeves) to get us rid of this deception world in our case you who has somehow peaked out of the system and came back to save us.. Is that so
You really are a believer it has already been shown to you Pam Reynolds was not clinically dead, maria's shoe could be seen by normal means. Their is 2, the story of the little boy who says he saw his dead unborn sister was simple pathetic and shows what your standard of proof is. Obviously you do not want to admit that, as then your whole house of cards will start to down. It is your fantasy that you that exist independent of your body (and particularly the brain) based in wish thinking that your death will not actually be the permanent end of your consciousness. You are not a rational because if you are where is your proof for example of heaven and hell after death? Or that everything that exists is conscious? Or what about your other absurd claim that heart stores memories? You are believer in the most extreme nonsense and do not have a right to talk about reason let alone tell other people they are not rational because they do not believe in the same nonsense as you.
Sufi is fraud….
Its just your feeling 😉
Okay, love moslems and the loving messengers 😉
Allah is ar rahman ar rahim. the word itself means love. 🙂
Prophet abraham lied 3 times. 1st when he thought sun was god then he changed belief to moon as god, 2nd, when after he destroyed idols, and told tht its the biggest idol who did it, and 3rd when he went to egypt and lied to king about sarah cos afraid the king would take sarah from him. in the judgement day, humans will ask abraham to help them with his syafaat but he will say hes still busy with his responsibilities about his 3 lies. so anyone who lied will be asked for responsibility eventhough its taquiya. taquiya is lying, and its sin. so if you lie about prophet, you will be responsible for your lies, if you believe in afterlife.
Freethinkerism……….!!!!!!!!
"I already refuted a few of those"
You have not refuted any one of them. You only denied them. Muslims do the same too. Your conviction is so strong that you think denial is enough. It is only enough for believers, not for rational people.
Loving god is not a part of Islam. Islam is about fear of Allah.
it is not your feeling,it's a fact.
I am a free thinker and will remain a free thinker. God does not have any religion. He is pure love and my goal is to reflect that love as much as humanly possible.
The good news for me is that the only thing that concerns me is truth, not traffic.
LOL. In fact now that I believe in God I know for sure Muhammad is hell. This does not mean Muslims will go to hell. God is full of love for all his creatures. But those Muslims who hate and kill believing in the lies of Muhammad will most certainly follow him to hell.
"Ali, yes please post ONE of your STRONGEST evidence for OBE's being real "
Any one of those ten cases that I posted are strong and enough to prove NDE is real. You can't explain any of them in a rational way.
Persinger’s experiment is real and valid. His interpretation is however wrong. The brain is a receiver. It is possible to tune it to invisible world. The yogis do that through meditation, Persinger can do that with his God helmet.
The fact that one can feel a presence when the brain is stimulated electronically does not prove that the experience is subjective. The next experiment Persinger should do is to test the objectivity of the experience. For example, he should try to establish communication between the subject and the ghost he senses and then ask the ghost questions such as read words written on a board that the subject can’t see and inform the subject what those words are.
Oh you're a sufi
Do you know Hindus have got a photo of your God. ? http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/images/Kr…
Oh but im a good person, a good moslema, and can be bad moslema too. i keep repenting after aware of my sins. people who repent are good, right. 🙂 god answers prayers of people who listen to him 🙂 listen to him, he'll listen to you @}-
Learn Vedic/Dharmic/aryan spirituality . Islam is crap.
The soul (consciousness) does not go anywhere. The invisible world is also here. Imagine there is a beautiful garden and everyone is there. Inside the garden there is building consisting of one big room. The building has no door, but there are holes all around it. Inside the the room a puppet show is playing. People insert their heads in the holes to watch the puppet show. However to make the show look real and engaging, a mechanism removes all their memory as soon as their heads are inserted in the holes. As long as their heads are stuck in those wholes the room and the show playing in it becomes their only reality. They get involved in it and take everything seriously. That is the only world they remember. But when their time is over they are pulled out and suddenly they see they have never been in that room. Their entire body was in the garden, just their head was stuck in that room and the whole show that they took so seriously was only a play.
That is what is happening to us. We are already in the other world. Our dead relatives can see us, but as long as our head is stuck in this world we don't see them and we can't hear them.
Once this show is over for us and we pull our head out of this world, we come to see what was happening here was only a game. We were never in this world and things for which we fought here are utterly ridiculous and insignificant.
i wont pray as god dosent answer prayers and want us to pray, anyway, cannot b a good human being and a good muslim at the same time. a good hman is a bad muslim and a bad mslima good person.
"The theory that there is an afterlife cannot be demonstrated mathematically. But there is overwhelming evidence that it exists. In Why I Believe in God and the Afterlife Now, I posted several videos of verifiable cases that prove NDE is objective, real and not imagined." I already refuted a few of those. Take the case of the little boy who claims he saw his sister. If you watch the video you will find out the mother miscarried before they found out the sex of the baby. And this is the kind of thing you think is *proof* of the afterlife? From this it is clear you have no idea what kind of evidence would actually be needed to prove the afterlife.
Wanna visit my majlis ta3lim? 🙂
Humans did modify god's messages. God exists, and he already messaged us. problem is, which messages are really from him, and which are spams. well its every persons task to find out.
Cos when you believe in god, and be a good person who never hurt anybody, and pray to god sincerely to show you the right path, love god, and understand what god wants and listen to him, insha Allah he'll show you the way :')
anyway, where r u from?
@ narcole, god may exist, but there is no true religion/gods religion. religion is man made.
what r u so happy abt? i still feel that islam is fake and mhammed was a criminal.
Oh i ever felt what buzzi said too *wondering* wallahu a3lam. its gods secret. we cant pretend we know all gods secrets. many things that exist but science cant explain. that proves our science is weak.
And I am convinced that Ali has gone off the rational path. Maybe he was never there. He has driven away non-religious people which are the fastest growing segment in America according to PEW. By attacking skepticism and rational thought (which millions of believers have done before many times so he is not the first one to do it), he has driven away skeptics and rational people from his audience base (whatever that number is, big or small).
As ali's assistant, ill answer, 1. good souls go to heavens park. Bad souls go to hells hole. a grave can be heaven park, can also be a hells hole. dead souls can talk to relatives by gods permission. when someone sleeps, god holds his soul. and when god returns his soul back, he wakes up. thats why dead persons souls can meet relatives souls in dreams. and he never returned wrong soul to wrong body, subhanallah. 2. god talked to moses. thats why hes called kalamullah.
Phenix, what are you talking about? First I just wrote my post 2 hours ago. Its not like the whole internet cares about this blog. Only a few random passer bys do. Second, my post was substantial so it may takes time and brain power to reply to that. Third, some times people from the opposing viewpoint dont reply because they CANNOT and they are clueless and have nothing to offer in return as counter debate. You're silly because you think since no one replied to my post that means I lost.
That link you posted is a study that has NOTHING to do with what Persinger did.
Why dont you or Ali give us ONE undeniable case, done under a SCIENTIFIC environment by people who are QUALIFIED to do that work? Instead of bad mouthing skeptics and so on. Where is that case? We'll be waiting. GO AHEAD.
Dont give us 20 weak proofs of OBE's being true because Muslims can do that too. We can do the same for proving the existence of Demons.
So what is your religion mr sina? Hindu? like mr chuck? 😉
marathon
your objections are bit weak and elementary.I'd understand why someone would not respond.But since you mentioned Dr.Persinger and failed to read the wiki article in it's entirety,I'd just like to point out 2 very important factors.Firstly, Persingers god helmet,which was designed to prove that brain stimulations can reproduce "mystical experiences" is a failed experiment that could not be replicated independently. Secondly,Persinger is now considered a heretic amongst the hardcore atheist communities since his peer reviewed publication on telepathy as a fact. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/….
Yay!
@ sina, i dont kw what others think, but u have convinced me in yr previous article. yes, i used 2 b an atheist. thank u for enlightening me.
Islam is peaceful :')
Ali, yes please post ONE of your STRONGEST evidence for OBE's being real or else me and Materialist can cite 20 weak stories to prove that Demons also exist and those who deny them are "dogmatic".
Remember, no one is saying that NDEs don't exist. They do. Its OBEs which do not exist. People can have strange experiences when they are close to dying, but they are all hallucinations and their consciousness never leave their body although they may THINK that happened. This is what you have to prove. Dont give us videos of 1 hour 30 minutes long. Focus on that ONE strong case that I'm asking you to mention.
This is not Hume says, all he says it is more likely that the person is deceiving him than a miracle happened. This is called Occam s razor obviously you have never heard of it."
That's not Occam's Razor,you're either deceiving us or ignorant of the actual principle,which states that a simpler hypothesis should only be preferred if it can account for all of the same facts but without postulating unnecessary details.
For eg. You have a dozen facts to explain and 2 hypothesis (X and Y),but X does the explicative work more efficiently than Y…,therefore hypothesis X is the preferable one.
Dismissing or denying data, facts or a phenomena does not equal Occams Razor because all of the assumptions must support either hypothesis.
The rest of your post are lean more towards accusations against Ali Sina but I see no actual rebuttals
Ali wrote:
"In this article I will argue that the so called skeptics are just as faithful believers as the religious believers whom they so love to disparage. "
Read this: http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/a/faith….
It says: "This claim relies upon the erroneous assumption that all propositions are created equal and, because some cannot be conclusively proven, then therefore none can be conclusively disproven. So, it is argued, the proposition "God exists" cannot be disproven."
You wrote: "The cases of NDE are in the millions. They are told by children and adults, theists and atheists and people of all races and cultures."
Whether an OBE is real or not, as I mentioned these experiences are all happening INSIDE the brain. They are illusions. They do not imply that a consciousness exists outside the brain. Dr. Michael Persinger proves this in this video of 6 minutes long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0
Who is this Dr. Persinger? From Wikipedia, "Michael A. Persinger (born June 26, 1945) is a cognitive neuroscience researcher and university professor with over 200 peer-reviewed publications."
As for your examples, they were not done in a lab setting and are not reliable. Wikipedia has 3 SCIENTIFIC references (not videos of personal experiences) for this statement: "Science currently considers the OBE a type of hallucination that can be caused by various psychological and neurological factors"
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experien…
So you are challenging science.
Dr. Michael Persinger has his own section on this page.
You would rather believe personal videos than QUALIFIED scientists and researchers working in their area of expertise.
I saw the first video on your other page. Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist, not a neurologist and is a Jesus freak and therefore disqualified from making any statements on OBEs.
Pam Reynolds case has been refuted (one of the strongest cases mentioned for support of NDE): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case
The page says:
– "However, critics and skeptics have shown that the claims can be explained through prosaic and conventional means."
– "Reynolds supposed Near "Death" Experience has been put forward as evidence supporting the survival hypothesis by proponents such as Michael Sabom in his book Light & Death, but critics say that the amount of time which Reynolds was 'flatlined' is generally misrepresented and her claimed NDE occurred when she was merely under general anesthesia and the brain was still active, hours before Reynolds is supposed to have "died.""
So instead of citing 20 weak stories (which is what Muslims do when trying to prove Quran has scientific verses), just post your ONE strongest undeniable evidence so we can focus on that. I have already proved one of the strongest evidence wrong ( Pam Reynolds) .
Another question for you: If consciousness can exist outside the body, what form does it take? It must have a physical existence because there has to be a difference between a container which contains nothing and a container that contains someone's external consciousness.
"It is there. Science is just not able to understand it" – this is an invalid response. Islam too is true by that logic and science just hasnt understood it yet.
You're saying that scientists have the instruments to detect signals and radiations and see things that are millions of Light years away from us, but cannot see a single signal of any type from someone who has died a few feet away from us in a lab controlled environment full of all kinds of radiation and material detection equipment.
"Hume says he is not going to accept any argument if it sounds miraculous, i.e. it cannot be explained rationally." This is not Hume says, all he says it is more likely that the person is deceiving him than a miracle happened. This is called Occam s razor obviously you have never heard of it.
" Based on that, we should reject quantum mechanics. There is nothing more weird and miraculous than QM." QM can be reproduced by experiment – because quantum mechanics is spooky it doesn't mean we should just accept any nonsense claim as plausible.
No Nde case has ever been verified. They are personal claims which are unfalsifiable. Their is no way any of these people can prove this claim we just have their word for it. Its like the claims of the followers of Sai Baba are these claims verifiable objective evidence in your opinion?
" The cases of NDE are in the millions." The claims of demon possession are in the millions whats your point?
" Unless the deniers claim that there is a conspiracy of millions of people including children, adults, believers, atheists, doctors and patients, we have to accept that NDE is a fact and instead of hiding our heads in the sand try to understand it." When you prove just 1 of of these millions of cases under controlled conditions then it will be proven. Until then you have nothing.
Or as they site you linked says (1)
Prove that consciousness can transcend the body by perceiving verifiable events while out of the body.
(2)
The next step is the same as the first step except it occurs while the body is verifiably "dead" (i.e., clinical and brain death).
(3)
Once the above can be proven, all the skeptics will have to admit that consciousness survives death.
Of course we all no such thing is never going to be proven, just like it is never going to proven as much as 1 demon exists.
"Faith is a mental disease." You are a perfect example of what faith can do to the brain. You now believe in Guardian angels, immaterial self, past lives, everything which exists is conscious, afterlife, memories in the heart, telepathy and just about every new age belief you can get your hands on it seems.
Ali, after your new findings, 1. can you explain where does the soul goes after death, does it remain be on earth and talk to the relatives (like NDE). 2. does God also talk to human.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, have you learned the ultimate truth that human beings are made in God's image? Have you realized that all people possess the qualities that distinguish them from animals: morality, reason, creativity and self-worth?
No, never. I was a very ignorant Muslim, like the majority of Muslims who think Islam is a peaceful religion. When I learned the truth, I went through a shock that lasted a long time.
sina, when used to believing muslim long back, did u feel it was okay to kill someone who insults islam or the prophet?