Is Muhammad Prophesized in the Bible?
The claim that Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible is perhaps the most patent Islamic lie. However, Muslims have no choice. They have to believe in this lie because Muhammad claimed he is prophesied and hence Muslims must find that prophesy.
Some Muslims claim that the reason we don’t find any prophesy of Muhammad is because the Bible is corrupted.
Someone wrote to me asking if Muhammad is a false prophet how is it that he is mentioned in the Bible. I replied he isn’t and he sent me this link where Muslims quote several verses from the Old and New Testaments claiming that they refer to Muhammad.
http://www.islam101.com/religions/christianity/mBible.htm
Although it is impossible to reply to all Muslims lies, because telling lies is easy for them and there is no limit to the amount of lies one can say I will reply to these.
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
- Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention. [Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur’an 3:42-47]
- Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
- Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).
Words in the mouth:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
[Deuteronomy 18:18]
- Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36).
- Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
John chapter 1 verse 11 states, “He came unto his own, but his own received him not.”- Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
Let us see what the correct wordings of the Deuteronomy 18:18 are:
17 The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy++18&version=NIV
“From among their brethren,” means from among their own people. i.e the Jews. Jews did not consider Arabs as their brethren. They called them gentiles (pagans) and they were seen as the enemies of Jewish people. http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-a-Gentile.html
The law in USA is that every four years Americans go to the polls and elect a president from one of their own (brethren). Now Canadians and Americans are known as brothers. You can find that statement in ever border crossing between Canada and USA. Does this mean that Americans can elect a Canadian as their president? Do you see the absurdity of this claim? Arabs and Jews never saw each other as brothers. The Bible speaks disparagingly of Ismael the alleged progenitor of Arabs and calls him a jackass, who will have his hand against all the people.
2- It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19
“And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
Let us read the verses 19 and 20.
19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”
Allah is not the God of the Jews. This is demonstrated by my friend Sam Shameoun here http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm
If Jews were faithful to the instruction of their God, they would have put Muhammad to death. But they disobeyed God and instead of killing the impostor when he arrived at Yathrib they tried to make peace with him. As the result of their disobedience to God they lost their lives, all of them were exterminated and humanity was plunged into mayhem and hundreds of millions of lives were lost. Ecclesiastes is a time to heal and a time to kill, a time for peace and a time for war. We must fight evil. That is the whole purpose of our lives. That is how we evolve spiritually.
3- Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:
It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:
“And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.”
When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra – “Read”, he replied, “I am not learned”.
Let us see what this verse talks about.
11 For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I can’t; it is sealed.” 12 Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, “Read this, please,” they will answer, “I don’t know how to read.”
13 The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is based on merely human rules they have been taught.
This passage is talking about a misguided people who don’t understand the scriptures. They refuse to read it or claim not to be able to read it. They are hypocrites who claim to honor God with their lips but their hearts are far from God. So if Muslims think the verse is about Muhammad, I can’t argue with them. Muhammad does fit the bill.
Muslims so much hate reading the Bible that even when they want to prove Muhammad is prophesized, they don’t read the whole context to see the passage they quote actually makes their prophet a hypocrite and an enemy of God. What a pathetic folk!
4- prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:
“Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem.”
“His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.”
In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as “altogether lovely”, but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Although all the claims Muslims made about Muhammad being mentioned in the Bible are ridiculous, this one takes the cake. I have shown the stupidity of such claim in this article. Please read it as it is really laughable. http://alisina.org/?p=277
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:
Al-Qur’an Chapter 61 Verse 6:
“And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, ‘O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.’ But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, ‘This is evident sorcery!’ ”
All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.
This is the claim Muhammad made. But Muslims have been unable to find any werse referring to Muhammad or Ahamad in the New Testament. So they present the following instead.
1- John chapter 14 verse 16:
“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.”
So Jesus asked God to give us a Comforter. Was Muhammad a comforter? He was a mass murderer. He bragged I have become victorious through terror. How can a terrorist be a comforter? All one needs is two once of rational thinking to see Muhammad was the opposite of what Jesus promised.
2- Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:“But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.”
How this apply to Muhammad who raided people at dawn, massacred unarmed men, raped their women and sold them as slaves? Did Muhammad testify of Jesus No! he even claimed that Jesus was never crucified and that someone resembling him was crucified in his place and that God deceived the people.
3- Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”.
“Ahmed” or “Muhammad” meaning “the one who praises” or “the praised one” is almost the translation of the Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word ‘Comforter’ is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.
Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
Let us read the mentioned passages.
John 14: 15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
First, Jesus said keep my command. Did Muhammad do that? Jesus said if you preach and are rejected dust your sandals before leaving. He wanted to emphasize to not take anything from those people even as gift. Muhammad raided and stole the entire wealth of countless towns. Jesus said, let he who has not committed sin throw the first stone. Muhammad ordered stoning. Jesus said my Kingdom is not of this world. He wanted to stress on the futility of the wealth of this world. Muhammad said, I have been promised the wealth of this world. Everything Muhammad did and said is opposite to what Jesus did and said.
The advocate that Jesus promised was to stay with us forever. This means he could not be a person in flesh. Muhammad died so he did not stay as he wished. The Holy Spirit was with Jesus while he was among us. For him to come back as Comforter Jesus had to return to his celestial Kingdom. Jesus said he lives with you and will be in you. So clearly he was not talking about a person with a physical body.
All one needs to see these claims are bogus is to read the verses, something Muslims never do.
John 15: 26 and 16:7 repeat the same things discussed above.
4- Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me”.
The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
That is an unproven and unfounded claim. Muhammad was no Spirit of Truth. He was a liar, an impostor. All the claims of Muslims are bogus. However, Jesus warned us that many false prophets will come who will claim to be from him and will seduce people.
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them.
Now see how this applies to Muhammad perfectly. Didn’t he behave like a ferocious wolf? Look at his fruits. Look at the miserable state of the Umma. Can you find any people more wretched than Muslims?
Edit 22 Jan 2015
Today I found this excellent debate on this subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXrCkyYHs6M
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Just because i have left islam doesnt mean that i have to follow christianity or any other religions for that matter. Thanks Sina for opening my eyes. I am now of the understanding that all religions are just political ploys. Concoctions to fool and control the masses. They are okay as long as they manage to bring peace and prosperity but they should be destroyed for the harm they bring. I am content that I am liberated from the feelings of threats the stupid hellfires and their likes.
Moses had a father, did he not? Why leave that out of your “equation”?
The Jewish Bible has no qualms speaking openly about all subjects. It mentions Moses, Miriam (his sister, also a prophet), Aaron (also a prophet), and others – by name (e.g., Numbers 11:27), so no deciphering or guesswork is needed on so important an issue, for, after all, Jews must obey a Jewish prophet, so this can leave no room for error.
There are so many errors in the post above insofar as the Jewish Bible is concerned, but it is not worth the effort to enumerate all of them, except to say that Gentiles, who have a translation of the Bible and do not understand that the Jewish people were given TWO Bibles, one Written Tradition and one of Oral Tradition, where the latter complements the former, cannot possibly get right the gist of what they read superficially, and it is quite ludicrous where some Gentile professes to understand the Bible without full knowledge of Biblical Hebrew and its corresponding Talmud. Not only ludicrous, but comical (like “Moe” being part of Jewish heritage).
@ Sina
I didn’t spot this reply from you.
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[[Don’t make up lies Riadh. There are no earlier versions of the Gospels other than the ones in use.]]
Lol! Like the Quran, I doubt you know much about the Bible. I didn’t make this up… it is called facts!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery#Textual_history
Why would I make up such silly lies? It is a “fact” that earlier MS of Bible did not contain the story. Hence someone penciled it in.
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[[It is not that I believe in every word of the Gospels as evidently there is a lot of ancient mythology that has crept into it.]]
Of course! As I have pointed out… in this way – you will pick and choose what you believe in. Without any consistent methodology.
A hypocritical stance! A bit like Edip Yuksel… remember him?
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“However, these four books are the earliest that have survived. If there was an earlier version it is lost and hence you can’t make that bogus claim.”
Once again… you have no clue about what is the Bible or much about it. For example the Bible they read about 1500 years ago contained different books!
I doubt you have EVER actually read the book cover to cover.
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[[Yes that is exactly what makes Jesus so great.]]
Um no. It makes him look like a coward. he doesn’t want to repeal the old law or carry out the punishment.
Of course, Jesus was NOT the authority to carry this out. He knew that well enough… and didn’t want the blame.
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[[He brought the best of everyone out.]]
Except himself.
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“He made them reflect and without condemning them, he made them do the right thing.”
Actually he didn’t. As I said… a cowardly way was taken. The right thing to do was point out clearly he has no jurisdiction/authority to carry out such punishment. So he side-stepped the issue.
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“That is why this story is so powerful.”
It isn’t.
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“I wish I could show Muslims their hypocrisy without putting them to shame, so they do the right thing and come out looking good too.”
Lol! Perhaps going around saying how you would like to see Muslims bombed to smithereens would be a start…
have you forgotten all of your old rhetoric? Going to apologize for it?
I don’t think so.
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“There is a lot of subtlety in this story alone. One cannot see it unless one acquired the basics of spiritual knowledge.”
Well! That is not you then clearly… as you have not seen “anything” in that story.
A story which quite clearly someone er… penciled in!
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“A child cannot understand the theory of relativity and why it is so elegant, so beautiful and so powerful.”
Now, now! Neither can you!
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“Your spiritual understanding is less than a child’s knowledge of theoretical physics.”
Sure! But I am glad my logic and history is up to the job! And do notice… other than this claim of “beauty” of this story… what you fail to explain is the beauty itself!
Yet my version clearly explains WHY this story is so bogus and what is wrong with it.
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“This is precisely what is so extraordinary about him.”
No it isn’t. Bible [NT] is completely false – that is – the 1st four books. And you know NOTHING about Jesus. Given how Bible is the ONLY source and that whole source is unbelievable.
Hence Jesus isn’t even a stick figure.
[Some psalms my contain some truth]
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“But Jesus did something extraordinary. He did not condemn the law or the people. He not only saved that woman, he made everyone a better person.”
Other than the fact that Adultery a crime punishable by death continued. As this story NEVER took place. Jesus merely feared for himself… as he knew he had no authority to give out such verdicts.
@PapaRomeo
“Any person who reads Bible and does not see that Jesus is a Son of God is a complete blind person. ”
Yeah! Look at this idiotic reply. Where is your methodology to clearly show which Bible verse is metaphorical and which is literal?
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“The interpretation of Sword is literally given in the Bible itself, yet you do not see it.”
Leave it son. I doubt you know 2 things about the Bible.
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“You can only express flat denial…I understand that is one of the characteristics of a muslim. Repeatedly deny the Truth until it is believed as lie and repeat the lie till it is believed as truth. I do not blame you.”
Oh look! Another ranting Christian! There’s a surprise.
@ Marissa, “Islam the top three fastest growing religions in the world” It may be true but all persons converting to other religions is not converting to Islam alone. By this I, as a born again believer of Christ, who is assured of the Salvation, is not surprised at all, because these things are prophesied in the Bible, the Word of God and bound to happen.
“This know also that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth…But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”
By this we know that the righteous people will keep on decreasing and the evil people will keep on increasing. This is what is bound to happen and will happen. But muslims will not become the world power and will not rule the world. It is the Jews who will become the world power and rule the world in the future…this is what is prophesied in the Bible.
@Amin Riadh, Any person who reads Bible and does not see that Jesus is a Son of God is a complete blind person. The interpretation of Sword is literally given in the Bible itself, yet you do not see it.
You can only express flat denial…I understand that is one of the characteristics of a muslim. Repeatedly deny the Truth until it is believed as lie and repeat the lie till it is believed as truth. I do not blame you.
” Moses was born as a Jew Jesus was born as a Jew.”
Not quite so. If one takes Judaism as a religion to have started from Laws of Moses and codification of Torah, then Moses himself was NOT born as a Jew [as in the religion] – because he is founder of the religion. As for ethnicity, then Jesus, Moses and Prophet Muhammad were all Semitics of Abrahamic line.
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“Moses was born during the reign of a Jesus was born during the reign of a
cruel leader Pharaoh who tried to kill cruel leader Herod who tried to kill
Jewish babies Jewish babies”
Tell me… who wasn’t born during evil times? When was this true for anyone? Just about every single person on Earth can claim this.
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” Moses was hiding in Egypt as a child Jesus was hiding in Egypt as a child”
Jesus was hiding where? Check you facts. And this is a difference… not a similarity. According to xtianity… Jesus lived out his childhood in Nazareth in Galilee.
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” Moses performed lot of miracles Jesus performed lot of miracles”
You will have difficulty finding a famed religious leader to whom no miracles have been attributed!
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” Moses turned water into blood Jesus turned water into wine”
A difference!
Plus:
“Then the LORD said to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt, over their rivers, over their streams, and over their pools, and over all their reservoirs of water, that they may become blood; and there will be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood and in vessels of stone.'” 20So Moses and Aaron did even as the LORD had commanded. And he lifted up the staff and struck the water that was in the Nile, in the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants, and all the water that was in the Nile was turned to blood.”
So who is actually performing this miracle? Aaron or Moses?
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” Moses fasted 40 days Jesus fasted 40 days”
Lol!
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” Moses chose 12 leaders. Jesus chose 12 apostles.”
As far as I know Moses did not choose 12 leaders. It is not he who created the 12 tribes of Israel.
As for Jesus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostle_%28Christian%29#The_twelve_apostles
This 12 seems like bit of a myth… there were no chosen 12.
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” Moses gave ten commandments. Jesus gave great commandments of love”
Lol! No similarity! You made this one up.
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” Moses died on a hill Jesus died on a hill.”
Nope. Jesus was crucified. And there is no mention of any “hill”. It is generally thought he was hanged outside the city walls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus#Path_to_the_crucifixion
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@Passive observer
” The richness of Scripture is in its openness to interpretation.”
Of course it does! We Muslims fully understand… “creative re-interpretations”.
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“We need to understand that Jesus always speaks in parables.”
Yes. In other words… the suggestion he was the literal, actual son of God is completely ridiculous.
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“Here the sword means division (difference in thought, way of life). ”
Merely re-interpreted by yourself. Jesus of course might have meant something completely different
@Amin Riadh
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”
I do not know how acquainted you are with the Bible. If you have read the whole Bible you will find lot of similarities between Moses and Jesus.
Moses was born as a Jew Jesus was born as a Jew.
Moses was born during the reign of a Jesus was born during the reign of a
cruel leader Pharaoh who tried to kill cruel leader Herod who tried to kill
Jewish babies Jewish babies
Moses was hiding in Egypt as a child Jesus was hiding in Egypt as a child
Moses performed lot of miracles Jesus performed lot of miracles
Moses turned water into blood Jesus turned water into wine
Moses fasted 40 days Jesus fasted 40 days
Moses communicated directly with God Jesus communicated directly with God
Moses chose 12 leaders. Jesus chose 12 apostles.
Moses gave ten commandments. Jesus gave great commandments of love
Moses died on a hill Jesus died on a hill.
@Amin Riadh,
“Mathew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”
The richness of Scripture is in its openness to interpretation.
We need to understand that Jesus always speaks in parables. “I am the light of the world” “I am the good shepherd” “ I am the bread of life” “ If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out” “ When you give charity let your left know what your right hand is doing.” “ You are the salt of the earth”
When Jesus said “I came not to send peace, but a sword” please remember he spoke in parables. Here the sword means division (difference in thought, way of life). According to Christianity this world is under the influence of Satan. When a person chooses Jesus wholeheartedly, there is struggle, there is hate; there is division in the family; not necessarily in a Hindu or Muslim family: this too happens in Christian families as well.. Jesus said. “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first” (John 15:18)
Inner peace comes only after moral struggle – that is the sword
I just wanted to point out that when Jesus refers to the Comforter in John chapter 14 verse 16, and John chapter 15 verse 26, that He is referring to the Holy Spirit.
You obviously do not understand any of the verses that you posted. Almost every verse that you posted, it was said that Jesus did not come for and that he came to turn son against fathefather, etc.,does not mean what you are implying it means. What does vs actually mean if you took any time to read the context of them, is is someone in your household was against you for believing in the Sun, and the Holy Spirit, that you shall be against them, and that you shall not let them deter you from the true path. Jesus was not a man of violence, he never condone violence, and he never meant to turn against your family and disrespect them. He meant that you must stand for what you believe in, and show your family that you know the truth. Because it first, they will not believe you, but if you hold on to your belief, and you hold on to your faith in Jesus Christ, and show them that you know that you are right, then eventually they will too come to understand that Jesus is the only path to God and righteousness. So don’t go around quoting single verses out of context, because all you’re really doing is diminishing your own argument, because you don’t take the time to actually understand what is being said. It’s kind of like some anti Muslims do with some of the verses (or whatever they’re called) from the Quran, and how they take them out of context and use them to support their hatred of Islam. Do you really want to be like that? You’re sinking down to the level of the people you’re arguing against, and that just defeats your argument from the get go.
“Is humanity bad?”
Yes and No. Humanity has the ability to do good and bad… hence humanity cannot lead itself.
Is humanity bad?
Lol. An argument between a Muslim and an anti-Islamist make their point by calling each other ‘less in intelligence’. Apparently you must be intelligent to believe in a religion. Who knew?
How about you two go back to lessons on debate 101? All I see here is an illogical so-called ‘debate’. Wouldn’t be any different if you two would start kicking each other’s butts so do that instead.
Clue: Who did Mohammed meet in the cave !?
Why do your Quran gave so much contradiction???
If a brain washed enough with an idia read another thing thay wouldn’t change, we saw this in Muslims who follow it blindly and every thing done in the name of Islam is justified irrespective of good or bad.
In the Bible it is written where the prophet would born, it is Jerusalem but where you Mohammed has born???
“Leave Islam to follow humanity.”
Nope. No one leaves a good thing to bad a worse one…
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!”
The logic of dear Bible is often a failure. So an angel of heaven is going to preach the falsehood!
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As for Christian theology… that is often a puzzle too:
“2Cor. 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”
How come? So if the Satan can disguise as an angel to fool then can he masquerade as Jesus himself?
It puts an end to the concept of an angel if one goes bad.
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“1John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.”
Most of the Humanity then… and supposedly bible is meant to be all about love and hugs!
To ali sina yes the story of the woman caught in adultery is fabrication just look for it online
Leave Islam to follow humanity.
In a sense Mohammed was prophesied in the Bible:
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
2Cor. 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
John 16:2 (Jesus:) They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.
1 John 3:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
1John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.
Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
1Pet. 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
When christian read bibel they become athiest…Maximum christian doesnot follow relegion…they cannt develops faith because in Bibel there are many contradiction,illogical things…. also contain pornography….! Contradiction and mistakes only comes when it is written by human… On the other hand maximum muslim follow their relegion… nothing is acceptable without logic and reason in Islam.You people opened page to write against islam because logic of islam is acceptable to all human.You people are trying to put some weak logic to disprove the reality and also deviating many nonmuslim from coming towards right path.There are no page like it which is dedicated to write against christianity…there is no need also because this religion is itself illogical.This website attracts people by its content because it appears something new to people.Thats why this websites have so many visitors…Some people get deceived by it content the non muslim..other throw away weak logic and remain away from this site.This is reality…..so accept the truth and come towards right path…may Allah guide you…..
@Marissa you seem really deluded if you think people are accepting islam in large numbers..It’s growing on account of high birth rate of muslim women who milk in European wellfare system..no wonder why European have trouble meeting their wellfare..the child birth ratioof muslim women inEurope to European woman is 1:4..do your math ..Are you not aware of daily riots in France,sweden and other European countries?sweden has become rape capital of world since they open their floodgates..stay deluded ..people are fed up..it’s just every European union country is forced to accept immigration..That’s the topic zionist tool Mr sina and Spencer never like to touch..Youtube Barbara Spectre or google Frankfurt school..you will learn how every western country was planned to destroy…
Thank you for your explanation. But please don’t play with words and learn Arabic more, since your mother tounge is farsi @}-
Where do people like you come from? What are you on about?
Islam is the “right” path. Now get on it quick…
RIADH , DO WHAT THE IMAM DID , HE LEFT ISLAM , AND HE SAID IF MUSLIMS WILL NOT LEFT ISLAM THEY WILL GO TO HELL FIRE.,,,,READ AND UNDERSTAND WELL THE QURAN ,,,IT IS ONLY YOUR PRIDE AND FEAR ON DEATH FOR APOSTACY,,,,WHY THOSE EX MUSLIMS EDUCATED LEFT?,,, DO WHAT THEY DID TO AVOID HELLFIRE.
@ My Enemy
This is the kind of nonsense you post up… and pretend they are answers. However when it comes actual debate and issues then you get your arse kicked. And you think this is somehow an answer… how is it?
How does that relate to the above reply to Sina?
– –
But as I said… you are not intelligent, not well read, not well educated…
– –
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11368825
Here is a story from the civilised people…
@ My Enemy
Oh dear! Look where you are posting this answer… why? More of you deception? This belonged somewhere else. And this was part of larger and different comment.
Look how thoroughly dishonest you are…
[“The thing about my (and other Islamorealists’) accusation against Isalm, Muhammad, and Islam, is that the accusations are backed by Islam’s own holy books and Muslims’ actions!”]
Er no it doesn’t. As I said you are simple ranter and nothing more. A hatemonger… and your Hindu parents are to be blamed for this.
– –
[[Humanity…. in ‘Prophet’ Muhammad??? Now I am getting nauseous again. Last I got nauseous was when I first read of the deeds of Muhammad.]]
More rhetoric and nothing more!
Didn’t I say these were easy to rub your face in… look at which comment this started on… and you couldn’t answer there… and had to hide this here!
Proving that…
You are not intelligent!
You are not very knowledgeable!
You are not educated!
Lol! How it all come true… even dear Sina quakes… who are you?
He left you in the lurch when he converted Christianity…
– –
[[The verses are there for all to see! You obviously think that the readers here are nothing but dumb f*cks, but the fact is that that they can read Quran 8:43 and 44 quite well and tell what Muhamm….err….Allah was up to!]]
More nonsense. You are unintelligent. Yes. People here are not “dumb” but hatemongers and therefore have sacrificed rationality. There were no lying in those verses… you made that up. And it is YOUR lying…
Saying:
“You obviously think that the readers here are nothing but dumb f*cks”
How does that answer your lying? It doesn’t. I mean Sina isn’t all that “intelligent”… however what is worse is that his rationality is sacrificed. His lying is ten a penny and pasted all over this site. There are hundreds of such lies…
And we all even know they are petty lies. Even Sina knows he is lying.. .this why he is not able to account for a single lies that I have pointed out.
As you hate Islam & Muslims… making up lies about both or either is NOTHING to you.
And I will repeat this was your lying. It is you lying.
– –
“You can pretend to be a smartass all you want, but it is not hard for anyone to see that you are just an ass!”
I am smart… and I have proven it too… not by such rhetoric… but by defeating you.
I have done that in the past… I have done it now.
All anyone has to do is read those xtianity comments… where your 2 bit knowledge came stuck and you have not been able to answer.
This is why people like you are desperate for vulgarity… look:
“You obviously think that the readers here are nothing but dumb f*cks”
Sunshine this you.
= = =
Or are you going to debate Quran again? Have you got those proofs about Flat Earth in the Quran yet?
Hint! I am always up for “debate” with you… and you are not.
= = =
Let us face it… even Sina is scared… ask him! Who are you?
Hello Sakat,
Thank you for your reply. You mentioned some good points. Such as having a verse revealed to show Muhammad the innocence of Ayesha, and Islam being incompatible with secularism, and independent thinking and reasoning being discouraged, which falls outside the Quranic parameters.
I am more interested in Quranic based Islamic studies. Since Hadith I am not sure of their authenticity. However, Hadith which go fully hand in hand with the Quran I would look at it as well.
Hello Destroyzionism,
Thank you for your response too. Yeah I agree immigration and high birth rate has a part to play. However, not all Muslims have five or six or more kids. A lot of them may have two or three or four at max. There are people indeed converting to Islam. I have read on Islam being one of the fastest growing religions in the USA, and especially so after the 9/11 attack. So why is this religion growing so fast? Can’t these converts see that despite the content in the Quran and Hadith, besides having some good and progressive teachings, also contains utterly ridiculous, misogynistic, unjust, anti non-Muslims, anti freedom-of-speech, unscientific, violent, non-spiritual sayings?
I would say most likely they like the organized lifestyle of sectarian Islam, and of a fuller moral system (which is cherry-picked usually). I still wonder though.
Peace.
@Amin Riadh
//”Petty accusation dear. Which you know is not true at all… and I can say the opposite and bat it right back at you.”
The thing about my (and other Islamorealists’) accusation against Isalm, Muhammad, and Islam, is that the accusations are backed by Islam’s own holy books and Muslims’ actions!
//”…..and how you fail to see the humanity in Muslims and Prophet Muhammad,…”
Humanity…. in ‘Prophet’ Muhammad??? Now I am getting nauseous again. Last I got nauseous was when I first read of the deeds of Muhammad.
——————-
//”That is not the Almighty’s lie but yours. False accusations of lies are lies…”
The verses are there for all to see! You obviously think that the readers here are nothing but dumb f*cks, but the fact is that that they can read Quran 8:43 and 44 quite well and tell what Muhamm….err….Allah was up to!
You can pretend to be a smartass all you want, but it is not hard for anyone to see that you are just an ass!
Destroyzionism said “….It’s in front of you but many people including Ali can’t see through the matrix …..”
And YOU can?? DZ, everything that you see beyond the “matrix” is called hallucination! Got it?
@Marissa i’ll like to adress your question..why people don’t see it hatred in al kitab lol..People see it,it’s just they are affraid of being called racist..media,government,universities and all main institutions are under control..they need to lie in order to promote immigration in western countries..they see homogenous Europe as a threat to their power..any party standing up for their people will be met the same fate slas golden dawn..Every wondered why there are many anti racist,pro multicultural,pro immigration jewish bodies in Europe and at same time they want homogenous isreal with people with jewish DNA..Islam is growing thanks to imiigration and high birth rate..You are deluded if you think people are converting to it in millions..Zionists want to create multicultural US And Europe and they will not stop untill Euopeaness is diluted.. search frankfurt school and research it..you will see how zionist jews planned the destruction of west by multiculturalism,feminism,liberalism etc etc..Why most of the university have liberal brainwashing agenda?people are conditioned to accept all these BS..Who would like to be called racists?how do you expect them to offer any resistence when merely not agreeing with the official version of holocaust will land up in jail in14 countries and are persecuted for life..It’s in front of you but many people including Ali can’t see through the matrix ..Let there be honest media ,politicians free from zionist control and islam will not survive in free world..But first you have to free your nation from people who brought you into this mess…
This islamophobe is allowed to spread hatred in Canada but researcher like Zundel is tried for finding facts which debunks official myth of holocaust..it’s clear who the western leader serve..So much for freedom of speech lol..
Agni veer team has refuted terrorist Zakir Naik’s claim.
Go through this link..U will find the truth….Ali sina use his weak logic to disprove anything……http://www.answering-christianity.com/adeel_khan/Rebuttal_to_Faith_Freedom.htm
Such lies as yours are easy to spot. And they are old hat on Sina’s site. In fact he has invented a few tall tales himself.
One curious, bogus tale was of Shakila Khan.
[[Muhammad didn’t “stand for justice”!]]
Given that you are nothing more than a hatemonger it is obvious you would make such claims. Hence they are easy to dismiss… as easily as that.
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[[He had no such thing as compassion in him and only cared that people obey what he commands!]]
Lol! Says you! As I said…
“Given that you are nothing more than a hatemonger it is obvious you would make such claims. Hence they are easy to dismiss… as easily as that. ”
Else do set about proving your own claims.
– –
[In this case it was convenient to justify his command in the name of “justice” or because it was “according to the old laws”! If people suffered because of his commands, ….. didn’t matter one bit to that psychopath!]
Might you have not read:
“The Prophet asked them. “What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?””
Offering Jews to carry out the punishment according to their book.
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[Jesus on the other hand, had COMPASSION in him, and was the reason why he did not go along with the Law of Moses!]
In this one instance. However Jesus knew full well that he wasn’t the authority to carry out such punishment… that rested either with the Jews or the Romans. So who was he carry out such punishment? Else he would have been put in front of those who ruled…
Perhaps he suspected a trap!
– –
[I do not know why he did not directly take on the Law of Moses, but whatever he did, effectively put an end to this cruel and unjust punishment for eternity.]
1. He repeatedly said he was for the old law and came to fulfill it.
2. We know that he did no such thing and capital punishment for adultery continued.
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[And he was KIND (another quality Muhammad did not have). ]
More nonsense. Else… do prove this.
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[He made sure the woman felt safe and forgiven before sending her away!]
Safe yes. Forgiven? Where did you get that bit from?
– –
[The zeal with which you protect Islam and Muhammad, and how you fail to see the humanity in Jesus’s actions, shows that you too are bereft of any compassion or kindness.]
Petty accusation dear. Which you know is not true at all… and I can say the opposite and bat it right back at you.
The zeal with which you hate Islam and Muhammad and Muslims, and how you fail to see the humanity in Muslims and Prophet Muhammad, shows that you too are bereft of any compassion or kindness.
There you go!
Lol! And I think you have a wee tipple too many. It is best to put it away my dear.
@ My Enemy
As I said… you are not very clever, intelligent or smart. That coupled with lack of education and knowledge…
That is not the Almighty’s lie but yours. False accusations of lies are lies…
23 Things that i learned about Mohammed and his Islam and hope you are well aware ,i wish a non-Arabian Muslim must know ; here i have mentioned below about :-
1) Mohammed did polygamy marriages .
2) Mohammed had more than 12-13 wife’s.
3) Mohammed married to old age business women (may be because she was rich.)
4) Mohammed married to a 6 year girl Ayesha who was daughter of one of his closest companion.
5) Mohammed married a divorced Zyenab (the wife of his adopted son ,after forcing him to divorce her)
6) Mohammed also married those women’s whom he captured in war or killings in Mecca or other places.
10) All muslims are only allowed to have 4 wives but there was special rule for Mohammed in Quran to have n number of wives (sura 32:50).
7) Mohammed preached Quran for 14 years in Mecca but was successful to bring only near 100 people in Islam, then he left towards Madina, So in total muhammed preached Quran for 22 years in his entire life, after 22 years the total muslim followers were more than 20-30 thousand people. Here one more thing is noticeable that all the fights or wars which mohammed faught was after when he left Mecca i.e after 14 years of preaching Quran in Mecca. So question arises how such an exponential growth is possible within 8 years if no forced conversions were done and especially when mohammed used to spent enough time with his 13-16 wives.
8) Initially Mohammed used to do prayer in the North direction i.e toward Jerulaem, later he decided to do it towards South direction.
9) Mohammed went to Gar Hira cave and spent more than 10-15 or more days Meditating there, One day he when he was Meditating
he felt his body shaking and felt like somebody has grasped his body and he felt like his soul coming out of his body. Mohammed didn’t understood this and was afraid, He described all this to her wife Kadija, She told him that what he has heard is actually the word of god.Question arises How come Mohammed knew there was soul in his body, Secondly how he knew that he was a soul not body.
11) During one of Mohamed’s several battles Mohammed Mascaraed more than 1000 people in Mecca in intention to spread Islam there because Qureash(who was leader in Mecca) was not allowing him to do so and was restricting him from corrupting their culture, thus Mohammed decided to adopt the route of violence i,e Jihaad.
12) Mohammed did Hijrah, Muslim calander is started from this day when he did Hijrah.
13) He created his first Masjid in Mecca, face of that Masjid was toward East, later which was destroyed.
14) At the time when Ayesha was missing during journey or left Mohammed deliberately, one of Mohammed’s old friend brought her back to Mohammed, At that time Ayesha’s purity was the big question for Mohammed, Mohammed himself didn’t had trust on her at that time, He accepted Ayesha’s protestations of innocence only after receiving new revelation straight from God, that highlights the level of trust Mohamed use to have on his wives that he require God to testify his wife’s purity. This was the reason why Mohamed decided to put Hijab (Burkha) on all his Wife’s in-order to prevent any such future incidents which could cause damage to his image,prestige or respect because at that time his enemies were spreading stories about issues he was facing in his marital life, that’s why he decided to put burkha so that nobody could see their faces and get attracted towards them,
Well it’s quit strange because He didn’t tried & taught his followers to not to have sexual intentions for other’s women especially who are married, rather teaching this he decided to put all his wife’s in a big black bag i.e Burkha or Hijab without even knowing their feelings their comfortability about whether they are liking it to wear or not, This leads us to the point that Mohamed doesn’t care or had much respect for the rights of women’s at that time.
15) 530 BC Mohammed attacked to Mecca with force of 10,000 people and fought with Qureash (leader of mecca at that time), He captured Kaaba and at that time inside kaaba there were statues of Gods (mainly Hindu Gods) and Goddesses worshiped by people of Mecca at that time, Mohammed and his followers demolished & destroyed all the statues of other religions present inside kaaba there, Which definitely would have hurt the religious sentiments of other people living in Mecca at that time, Again it was the Violation of Human & Religious Rights which Mohammed didn’t care about at that time in intention to spread Islam at any cost.
16) Books says Mohammed was illiterate but also mentions he was able to write with his Left hand only, so he was Lefty.-contradictory statements
17) It may still be possible that Mohamed was a nice guy, but it is sure that Quran contains Violent Verses filled with hatred for non-muslims (i.e Kafirs i.e non-believers)
18) Sharia (word means way to water hole) is the law of Allah.
a) Sharia says to Apostate to be killed.
b) Drinker & Gambler should be Wipped.
c) Allows Husbands to hit their wives.
d) Allows to take an Eye for an Eye.
e) Sharia commands that a thief must have a Hand Cut-Off.
f) Homosexuals must Executed.
g)Orders unmarried Fornicators to be Whipped & Adulterous be stoned to death.
h)Orders death for muslim & non-muslim critics of Mohammed,Quran & Sharia.
i)Commands Offensive Aggressive & Unjust Jihaad (word Jihaad means to spread Islam by doing leagal, social, verbal or physical war or violence)
j) As written in the Quran Sharia is the law of Allah, having any other form of law or government is a sin.
19) It is the duty of every muslim to keep striving until all Government have been converted to Sharia Law and there is only one religion present i.e Islam.
20) Mulims are allowed to DECEIVE non-muslims if it helps spreading Islam in any way, this principle is called TAQIYA in Islam, while most other religions in world speaks highly of truthfulness but Quran instructs muslim to lie & fool Non-Muslims about their beliefs & political ambitions to protect & spread Islam, there are many example of today Islamic leaders saying one thing in English for western press and then saying something entirely different to their own followers in Arabic a few days later, deceiving the enemy is always useful in war and Islam is at war with the non-islamic world until the whole world follows Islam & Sharia Law, all non-muslims living in non-islamic state are therefore Enemies. As a recent example the Islamic American Relief Agency were seemingly raising money for orphans but in fact giving the money to terrorists, they deceived good hearted western-eastern infidels into giving money to organizations that were actively killing western infidels.
21) Islam as a “religion of peace”, Muslim organization worldwide often declare as an “Islam Is A Religion Of Peace”,But what do they really mean?? It seems easy for a muslim to quote a peaceful verse from the early part of the Quran, while By following the principle of TAQIYA avoiding to mention the fact that it has been officially abrogated by later more violent verses. According to the Quran the World would be at Peace only when Islam and sharia dominates & reign in every country -and never until then. This is why every muslim can truthfully say that “Islam Is A Religion Of Peace”
22) Quran on Abrogation (ura 2:106), we do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that we bring forth[one] better than it or similar to it. Do you know that Allah is over all things competent?
Sura(16:101): And when we substitute a verse in place of a verse -and Allah is most knowing of what He sends down -they say, “You,[O Mohammed] are but an inventor [of lies].” But most of them do not know.
Sura(17:86): And if willed, we would surely do away with that which we revealed to you. then you would not find for yourself concerning it an advocate against us.
More information on this see url:
http://tinyurl.com/taqiyya1
http://tinyurl.com/abrogations1
23) Apart from all this, other personal details which i came to know:-
Mohammed father : Abdullah,
Mother: Amenah,
Cousin: Ali,
Sons of Mohamed: 3 -one was adopted,
Daughters:2,
Mohamed’s Uncle: Abu Talib
Birth Place: Mecca
Died On: 8th July 632 at Mecca, and was buried near Kaaba facing his head towards Kaaba.
I Think you should spread this message so that others should also know about how blessed we are of having such a peaceful religion sharing this earth with us
i dont find any thing wrong in those verse….Book is from Allah there cannt be any contradiction in whole quran….
Hello…my muslim brother and sister…dont go through the weak logics of Ali sina.He is not an exmuslim he is christian…He just taken muslim name and deceiving people with his weak logic..He refer people to follow other relegion…How can a exmuslim can refer people to followo relegion of many god..or…relegion in which god died..I know He found the truth but not aacepting…because he has opened up his buisness if he agree to islam then his buisness will be stoped…may Allah guide he and his team…
Wahabi Zakir Naik says Coming of Muhammad is predicted in Hindu scriptures. Mr. Sina, Do you believe in him ?
Hello Ali Sina,
I am a born Muslim woman myself. I have always been quite devout. My mind has always been curious though, and wanting to find answers. I have been a truth seeker at heart. I have come across your site a couple months back, and have been quite glad on it. I think a site like your’s is very important for the general public. I really appreciate your humanistic approach to the world as well.
By the way I wonder, if Islam is really so hated in the world and mainly in the West, why is it one of the top three fastest growing religions in the world? Why people can’t see Islam for what it is, with it’s anti-apostasy and anti-blasphemy laws, inequality with women (something that hurts me the most), it’s hatred for non-Muslims, verses in the Quran regarding warfare and mutilating enemies, etc? The people are usually handed a Quran to read. They should see exactly what is in the Quran and apply their reasoning. Why don’t they?
Thank you once again for your enormous contributions.
Al Barbhuiya,
Did you know that Allah is on record for LYING to Muslims? Here is what it says in Sura 8 (Dr. Mohsin translation)-
Q8:43
(And remember) when Allâh showed them to you as few in your (i.e. Muhammad’s SAW) dream, if He had shown them to you as many, you would surely have been discouraged, and you would surely have disputed in making a decision. But Allâh saved (you). Certainly, He is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts.
Q8:44
And (remember) when you met (the army of the disbelievers on the Day of the battle of Badr), He showed them to you as few in your eyes and He made you appear as few in their eyes, so that Allâh might accomplish a matter already ordained (in His Knowledge), and to Allâh return all matters (for decision)
So Allah lied to Muslims regarding the size of their enemy because he did not want any problems in accomplishing “a matter already ordained” by him!
Al Barbhuiya, why do you believe in a LIAR?? Can you be sure he didn’t lie to you at other places in the Quran?? How do you even know that this proven liar did not LIE to Muslims about him being God??
Ali Sina is a christian not an ex muslim he is just an anti muslim because in one of his debate he was saying the opponent that then why to follow islam follow other relegion like christrinity and Hinduism.How an ex muslim can find goodness in other relegion which believe in many god making idol or believing god is died or crucified….No follower of islam can change their their relegious beliefe…because all relegion have contradiction other than islam..the ex muslim athiest are rare..and if they become they are due to some misconception…Ali sina being an ex muslim advicing other to follow relegion of many god..!Ali cannt be ex muslim he a chriastian who just taken a muslim name and writing ex muslim…and Also he show his weak logic to disprove islamic belief…..Alisina I know that u got the truth already but U are not accepting it because you open your buisness if you agree your buisness will be closed….I pray that may Allah guide you and your team……ameen.
@Amin Riadh ( ch…..c)
Please stop pretending to be Muslim. Everyone knows you are a Jesus worshiper.
@Amin Riadh,
It is obvious that you love to see people getting murdered for adultery. Now read this and laugh-
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/yemen/outrage-after-man-tortures-and-murders-10-year-old-daughter-1.1434154
(Dated: Dec 30, 2014)
And while you have orgasms reading about this “justice” done “according to old laws”, make sure to pat yourself on the back for being a good Muhammadan!
@AminRiadh
“And these were penciled in later as the earliest versions of Bible do not contain these particular verses!” “Even though there is actual evidence that some penciled this story in later.”
Don’t make up lies Riadh. There are no earlier versions of the Gospels other than the ones in use. It is not that I believe in every word of the Gospels as evidently there is a lot of ancient mythology that has crept into it. However, these four books are the earliest that have survived. If there was an earlier version it is lost and hence you can’t make that bogus claim.
“It is the “people” that come out looking well… “
Yes that is exactly what makes Jesus so great. He brought the best of everyone out. He made them reflect and without condemning them, he made them do the right thing. That is why this story is so powerful. I wish I knew how to do the same with Muslims. I wish I could learn some of Jesus’s wisdom and sharpness. I wish I could show Muslims their hypocrisy without putting them to shame, so they do the right thing and come out looking good too. There is a lot of subtlety in this story alone. One cannot see it unless one acquired the basics of spiritual knowledge. A child cannot understand the theory of relativity and why it is so elegant, so beautiful and so powerful. He will understand it only when he learns the basics of physics. That is why you can never understand the beauty of this story. Your spiritual understanding is less than a child’s knowledge of theoretical physics.
“Jesus neither repealed the law or carried out the justice according to Law of Moses.”
This is precisely what is so extraordinary about him. I often wondered, if I faced a similar situation what would I have said, had I not known of this story. I think I would have said, “The law is antiquated, wake up you stupid people,” or something to that effect. This would have angered the people and they would have stoned me as well. Or I would have kept silent and watched the atrocity. But Jesus did something extraordinary. He did not condemn the law or the people. He not only saved that woman, he made everyone a better person.
@ My Enemy
[[Whether Jesus was an ordinary man or not is a matter of individual perception. What I see is that he protected a woman from a mob.]]
Doh! In other words he had no problem with Capital Punishment for Adultery and he never opposed it. Else he would have said so.
– –
You also dodged the bit about this actual story is not part of the actual Bible… but later penciling in!
– –
[[Lots of men carry out this duty of theirs, but what is striking about Jesus is that not only did he protect the woman from unjust harm, he gave the woman her dignity back too! ]]
How did he give her dignity back? He saved her yes… but how was her dignity given back?
– –
[[Minutes earlier she was about to die for a crime that does not justify the extreme punishment of death, and minutes later not only she was safe from harm but also had the emotional assurance of having been forgiven of sin.]]
In the past, Hinduism too put them down for Adultery. Although Hinduism was not as strict.
The severest strictness came with inter-caste adultery!
– –
[[It is because of how effectively Jesus carried out his role as a man, that I believe he is a role model for all men whether Christian or not! He is not the only one, but he cannot be under-recognized.]]
Yep! Like Sina… any difficult passages… do you call them all false too? Of course unlike Sina I am glad at least you haven’t raised him to divine levels… how you call him a mere man!
@ My Enemy.
“Readers are welcome to read your posts and see for themselves why you post here- to do taqiyya for Islam and to vilify those who oppose this evil cult!”
What is Taqiyah? Nothing. It is a myth created to bash Muslims. It means nothing… So what is this comment meant to show? Nothing. You think I have forgotten when tried to prove that Quran alludes to a Flat Earth. And then you failed spectacularly. As Sina seems not have deleted those comments – then they are still about this site.
Evil Cults? Islam is a great religion… greater than Hinduism anyhow.
– –
“Says the guy who did NOT know about Jesus putting an ETERNAL END to stoning of people, something the whole world knows of!”
Lol! Jesus did no such thing. He merely stopped one woman getting stoned. On the other hand he fully approved all the old laws… as he repeatedly says in the Bible.
– –
“You don’t have to. Islam does the job for you! When you call yourself “Muslim” you SUPPORT all the hatred that Islam spouts at non-Muslims.”
Lol! As I spout no hatred – neither does Islam. You on the other hand…
– –
“I will let the readers find out for themselves what was what. They are smart enough.”
Lol! In other words… those that come here and are already of dark hearts like you will simply lend support to such nonsense!
Being smart has got nothing to do with it… this was a disjointed comment which wasn’t a direct reply.
Fact is a fact.
– –
“He merely saves a single woman??? Amin, how many people have been stoned by Christians ever since Jesus?? (That is, in the last 2000 years!)”
Oh dear! Until recent times when West moved away from Christian lands criminalized Adultery. I think Philippines still does. In Europe, in past, you could easily be put to death for Adultery.
Evidence? Book:
“Violence in Early Modern Europe 1500-1800”
[Spam filter hold posts if I paste in links]
Jesus did not repeal the law… and Christian authorities seem not to have taken this to repeal the law on Adultery. Hence it still remains a Sin and in the past in Christian lands it was a crime punishable by Capital punishment.
Stoning went in the Middle Age Europe, however it was neither the most popular or the only method. However it was fairly popular in Pre-Islam Christian Arabia.
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“I will let the Christians respond to the Bible quotes that you have posted. All that I know is that men are supposed to protect everyone who is weaker-in-some-way, and Jesus did EXACTLY THAT! Hence he is a role-model for all men.”
Yes. Didn’t I say?
1. Not very bright.
2. Not very educated.
3. Not all that well read.
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“You seem to be making the case that 1) Jesus was not opposed to stoning, and 2) Since he was not, Islam does not conflict with what Jesus did not oppose, and hence stoning people is OK! You are clearly completely bereft of compassion and kindness, just as your prophet was!”
Jesus affirmed he was for Mosaic Law and old law of prophets. He did not repeal the death penalty [Stoning is merely one form of punishment]
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“You are clearly completely bereft of compassion and kindness, just as your prophet was!””
Er… how do you figure that out? As I said you are full of hatred of Muslims hence you make such things up. Hence I will return the favour…
You are completely bereft of “compassion and kindness” just like most Hindus! As preached by the religion that brought in the caste system.
@Amin Riadh
//”Good story! So one stood for justice according to the old laws… the other didn’t.”
Muhammad didn’t “stand for justice”! He had no such thing as compassion in him and only cared that people obey what he commands! In this case it was convenient to justify his command in the name of “justice” or because it was “according to the old laws”! If people suffered because of his commands, ….. didn’t matter one bit to that psychopath!
Jesus on the other hand, had COMPASSION in him, and was the reason why he did not go along with the Law of Moses! I do not know why he did not directly take on the Law of Moses, but whatever he did, effectively put an end to this cruel and unjust punishment for eternity.
…….And he was KIND (another quality Muhammad did not have). He made sure the woman felt safe and forgiven before sending her away!
The zeal with which you protect Islam and Muhammad, and how you fail to see the humanity in Jesus’s actions, shows that you too are bereft of any compassion or kindness.
@Amin Riadh
// “Get in line for another bashing dear.”
Readers are welcome to read your posts and see for themselves why you post here- to do taqiyya for Islam and to vilify those who oppose this evil cult!
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// “Like I said… you are not very intelligent, well read or educated.”
– Says the guy who did NOT know about Jesus putting an ETERNAL END to stoning of people, something the whole world knows of!
// ” I do not hate non-Muslims… ”
You don’t have to. Islam does the job for you! When you call yourself “Muslim” you SUPPORT all the hatred that Islam spouts at non-Muslims.
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//”See how this [Your nonsense] doesn’t relate to what my original comment was about. This is how you swill nonsense.”
I will let the readers find out for themselves what was what. They are smart enough.
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//”Here Jesus merely saves a single woman. So if Jesus was so set against Adultery why did he bother to affirm Law of Moses?”
He merely saves a single woman??? Amin, how many people have been stoned by Christians ever since Jesus?? (That is, in the last 2000 years!)
I will let the Christians respond to the Bible quotes that you have posted. All that I know is that men are supposed to protect everyone who is weaker-in-some-way, and Jesus did EXACTLY THAT! Hence he is a role-model for all men.
You seem to be making the case that 1) Jesus was not opposed to stoning, and 2) Since he was not, Islam does not conflict with what Jesus did not oppose, and hence stoning people is OK! You are clearly completely bereft of compassion and kindness, just as your prophet was!
@Ali Sina,
Whether Jesus was an ordinary man or not is a matter of individual perception. What I see is that he protected a woman from a mob. Protecting those who are in a weaker position (women, children, environment, animals, etc) is the primary function of a man in this world. And Jesus performed exactly that function! He did it in his own way but what is important is that he did carry out this duty of a man.
Lots of men carry out this duty of theirs, but what is striking about Jesus is that not only did he protect the woman from unjust harm, he gave the woman her dignity back too! Minutes earlier she was about to die for a crime that does not justify the extreme punishment of death, and minutes later not only she was safe from harm but also had the emotional assurance of having been forgiven of sin.
(( The scene from this movie IMO presents all this very well, and is the reason why I posted it over similar scenes from other Jesus movies.))
It is because of how effectively Jesus carried out his role as a man, that I believe he is a role model for all men whether Christian or not! He is not the only one, but he cannot be under-recognized.
@ Sina.
[though I am not impressed by the acting in this movie, that story is very powerful and if anyone has spiritual eyes he or she can see Jesus was no ordinary man.]
It is the bible verses – John. It isn’t about the movie. And these were penciled in later as the earliest versions of Bible do not contain these particular verses!
Again your “bias” coming to fore… everything that can be construed as bad from the Bible about Jesus is wrong and everything such as this is right!
Even though there is actual evidence that some penciled this story in later.
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Compare that to a similar incident happening in the life of Muhammad.
[[Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 82 :: Hadith 809
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah’s Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. “What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?” They replied, “Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya.” ‘Abdullah bin Salam said, “O Allah’s Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah.” The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, “Lift up your hand.” Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah’s Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn ‘Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.]]
Good story! So one stood for justice according to the old laws… the other didn’t.
Reading the Biblical Version:
[[When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’]]
It is the “people” that come out looking well… Jesus neither repealed the law or carried out the justice according to Law of Moses.
though I am not impressed by the acting in this movie, that story is very powerful and if anyone has spiritual eyes he or she can see Jesus was no ordinary man.
Compare that to a similar incident happening in the life of Muhammad.
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 82 :: Hadith 809
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah’s Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. “What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?” They replied, “Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya.” ‘Abdullah bin Salam said, “O Allah’s Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah.” The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, “Lift up your hand.” Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah’s Apostle ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn ‘Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.
I have answered… but as it contains links it is held up for moderation. Up to Sina to put it through.
Yes! However Taqiyah is a myth… created by people like you in order not to answer! Why don’t you look it up?
I proved your lacked of intelligence several times in the past and repeatedly… and I also proved that source of your hatred is Hinduism. Your mother and your father are to blame.
Get in line for another bashing dear.
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“Ha! Pot calling the kettle black. If anyone sacrificed rationality out of hatred, it was Muhammad and his sock-puppet Allah! Ali is completely rational and readers are smart enough to tell.”
So which pot is calling which kettle black? Where? I do not hate non-Muslims… so I am not the Pot. But Sina has deep hatred of Muslims [as do you]… so you are definitely black kettles.
Like I said… you are not very intelligent, well read or educated.
Did you think I was going to forget all about you?
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“That is how it works in YOUR world (the Islamic one). In a sane world people let each other believe whatever they want as long as the beliefs are not harmful or dangerous to others.”
Nonsense! Sheer nonsense… Pope and his Antisemitism? The whole Catholic Church and problems with Condoms? So which “sane” world and where does it exist?
It is not India… or Hinduism. Fundamentalist Hindus are deeply dark and full of hatred. Just like your parents…
See how this [Your nonsense] doesn’t relate to what my original comment was about. This is how you swill nonsense.
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“Your asking this question is by itself enough to discredit you in every non-Muslim’s eyes.”
No. Why should it? Hindu have time for Jesus. Atheists detest the fellow as much as any other leader… THE only religion who cares about Jesus besides Christianity is Islam. So why would any other religions besides xtianity care?
And how does merely asking the question lead to being discredited? That is job of the “evidence”.
And let us have a look:
53 Then each of them went home, 1 while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, 4 they said to him, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?’ 6 They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’ 8 And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus straightened up and said to her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ 11 She said, ‘No one, sir.’ And Jesus said, ‘Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.’
John.
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Here Jesus merely saves a single woman. So if Jesus was so set against Adultery why did he bother to affirm Law of Moses?
And then let us see what Jesus says about Adultery:
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
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So Jesus of Bile is happy enough to condemn Adultery, he is happy enough to affirm Law of Moses… but at crunch time didn’t want to get his hands dirty… Shall we this was merely his Presidential Pardon? Or else he was completely hypocritical?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery#Some_of_the_textual_variants
But lest we forget these were later additions… that is somebody accused of adultery had a go at changing the book itself!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery#Some_of_the_textual_variants
The above post is directed at Amin Riadh.
“You express your general nastiness and hatred of Muslims. But with such hate-mongering, rationality is obviously sacrificed.”
Ha! Pot calling the kettle black. If anyone sacrificed rationality out of hatred, it was Muhammad and his sock-puppet Allah! Ali is completely rational and readers are smart enough to tell.
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“So, in order for you to be a Christian… the lie is of Muslims. Now, I am a Muslim, therefore, it is the Christianity that is the lie.
See how it all works?”
That is how it works in YOUR world (the Islamic one). In a sane world people let each other believe whatever they want as long as the beliefs are not harmful or dangerous to others.
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“So when did Jesus ever oppose stoning?”
Your asking this question is by itself enough to discredit you in every non-Muslim’s eyes. They clearly do not teach at your madrasa about Jesus having saved a woman from stoning. Here, watch this 3 min video and learn it NOW (you can thank me later):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDxB5q3pLy4
Amin Riadh – just one word for your lengthy comments: – TAQIYYA.
Wherever LOVE established, there is peace. Work for LOVE. Work hard for it. LOVE IS THE ANSWER.
You express your general nastiness and hatred of Muslims. But with such hate-mongering, rationality is obviously sacrificed.
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“Can you find any people more wretched than Muslims?”
Yes. Plenty. But how “wretched” are the Muslims really? Other than a place like Afghanistan [and that country is wretched and we all know the reason] virtually every Muslim country is doing well. Stupidity of this reasoning is that Muslim nations once ruled the Earth. So how is that explained? It isn’t.
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“The claim that Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible is perhaps the most patent Islamic lie. However, Muslims have no choice. They have to believe in this lie because Muhammad claimed he is prophesied and hence Muslims must find that prophesy.”
Ha, ha… based on what? If the Christians can get away with the Messiah business… so can anyone else. You have no way to prove whether this is a lie without the bias. And we all know you are a Christian and therefore biased.
So, in order for you to be a Christian… the lie is of Muslims. Now, I am a Muslim, therefore, it is the Christianity that is the lie.
See how it all works?
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“Everything Muhammad did and said is opposite to what Jesus did and said.”
Let us have a look:
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“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” Matthew 5:17
Jesus confirmed he repeatedly that he stood by the Old Law of the past Prophets. And we all know the stoning condoned by the Old Testament.
Idolatry – Deuteronomy 17:2-7; 13:6-10 (Matthew 7-11)
Sacrificing children to Molech – Leviticus 20:2-5
Prophesying in the name of a foreign god – Deuteronomy 13:1-5
Divination – Leviticus 20:27
Blasphemy – Leviticus 24:15-16
Sabbath breaking – Numbers 15:32-36
Death caused by an ox – Exodus 21:28-32
Adultery – Deuteronomy 22:22-24
Rebellion by children – Deuteronomy 21:18-21
So when did Jesus ever oppose stoning?
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Another look:
Mathew
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
How poignant must the last verse be! How narcissistic of Jesus!
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“Muhammad said, I have been promised the wealth of this world. ”
As per usual, Sina isn’t all that afraid of a lie or two.
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“The advocate that Jesus promised was to stay with us forever. This means he could not be a person in flesh. Muhammad died so he did not stay as he wished. ”
How ironic! According to Christianity Jesus died and it is according to Islam that he didn’t. Oh dear!
However, Sina has an invented excuse for Jesus! Like I said… if such excuses can work for Jesus… why not for others?
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“As the result of their disobedience to God they lost their lives, all of them were exterminated and humanity was plunged into mayhem and hundreds of millions of lives were lost.”
Another outright lie. Sina is never afraid of bunging in such lies. He [and his followers] know such easy lies work.
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“The law in USA is that every four years Americans go to the polls and elect a president from one of their own (brethren). Now Canadians and Americans are known as brothers. You can find that statement in ever border crossing between Canada and USA. Does this mean that Americans can elect a Canadian as their president? Do you see the absurdity of this claim?”
This one made me really laugh… oh dear! The sheer stupidity of this… do you remember Obama and him not being a Brother?
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