Muslim Scholar Leaves Islam
Respected Sir,
This is …. from ….. I was searching for a good Ex Muslims platform on Internet. I found your both websites Fantastic. Sir you are doing a very good work. There is lot of things to discuss, I don’t know from where should I begin let me come right to the point,
Sir, I have a very good Islamic Background, brought up in an Islamic family, memorized Quran, studied Tafseer, Hadith, Fiqh and all other stuff what Ulemas do. I hold a degree in Islamic Studies. I am a CERTIFIED ISLAMIC SCHOLAR. I mastered in Quranic Recitation, I wrote a book on Quranic recitation which is currently running in some well-known schools in my locality. I am an active preacher of Quran. My people rely on me and expect a big work from me. Currently I am running a Quranic School. This is what I seem to be in short publicly.
But, what is inside my heart is totally different. I made a very big research in my life at last I got to know the truth about my religion. From past four months I left Islam in my Heart but I cannot reveal it to others because of the punishment fixed by Islam. It is very difficult to be among Muslims, teaching them about Islam and hiding the reality from them.
Sir, I need your personal advice regarding my matter, especially regarding my CAREER. I have not learned anything in my life except Islam. My aim was to be a STAR in Islamic World, So I devoted my life in studying Islam, Quran and promoting it. But after my research I cannot live in this stage….
I need your advice whether I should attend some career courses and make my career in a different field or I can work in an opposite direction, I mean writing articles against Islam, making documentaries, working for an Anti-Islamic Organization, etc.
If you ask me about my preference I would definitely choose to work against Islam, Because I HATE Islam and I know Islam in depth. Being a scholar, I can spot the POTHOLES which is invisible to others. Actually I want to save the humanity from falling into this Dangerous HELL.
Sir, I have shortened my message for your convenience, Hope so I am clear. Kindly guide me with your experience.
Best Regards
Dear friend and brother,
Prior to studying the Quran in 1994 I was utterly ignorant of Islam. What the average Muslim is taught is absolutely nothing. Half of what we learn is lies and myths and the other half is so much sugarcoated that the only thing it does not resemble is truth. Despite that I knew I had to warn the world about Islam and began educating myself. This became my mission.
I did not quit my work. I worked during the day and at night I sat in front of my computer and wrote articles and responded to emails. My heart was not in my work. I wanted to tell the world about Islam. Apparently God saw my struggle and ruined my business so I don’t waste time on it.
Your case is different. It seems that God has groomed you all your life to be a learned scholar of Islam and finally, He sent you his enlightenment. Now you have both, the knowledge and the understanding. I only had the latter.
Despite my lack of knowledge, I have done quite well. I have helped thousands of Muslims to leave Islam and either directly or indirectly helped millions to learn the truth about this cult. Starting to write around 1997-1998 I was the first person to use the Internet as a medium to expose Islam. After the 9/11 many more came to the forefront and now we are thousands.
You have both the knowledge and the understanding. I have no doubt that you can achieve much more than me. Your knowledge of Islam is a great gift. You did not waste your time studying it. It was part of your divine purpose. Everything that happens to us has a purpose. When I look back at my life I see everything that happened to me, whether good or bad pushed me towards what I am doing now. There was a purpose for my coming to this world. There was a reason why I survived a deadly fall at the age of nine when my doctor said to my parents, I won’t make it. All my successes and all my failures had a reason. Everybody’s life has a purpose. You spent your entire life becoming an expert on Islam for this moment. Knowledge does not bring enlightenment. I have over 1000 books on my hard drive, but my laptop is not enlightened. Knowledge is good when it is accompanied by enlightenment. Now you have both. You have to capitalize on it. This is a great blessing that is bestowed on you and not on other Muslim scholars. They are certainly no more enlightened than my laptop. Actually there is some light coming out or my laptop. These Muslims scholars emit no light.
Of course you also need to make money to survive. This needs a little pacification. There are ways to make a living while putting to work your expertise. Apply for a teaching position in a university. You can teach Islamic studies. Maybe this is something you can do even in your country, but most certainly you can do it in a western country, such as UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and USA. You may even find a teaching position where you can teach online. If you have to spend some time to upgrade your diploma it is a time well spent.
Another way to make a living is to write books. But I don’t think you should rely on books alone for your sustenance. You need a steady source of income. Books may or may not sell enough to support you. If you become a successful writer, you can even make money by giving speeches. Ayan Hishi Ali does that and she is doing quite well. This may require that you migrate to one of the above mentioned countries.
Your heart is in this and you have the knowledge. These are the two ingredients for success. I don’t think it is a good idea for you to start learning another profession. Religion is a field in itself. You can make a living while putting to good use your knowledge and do what you most love to do.
I publish my response to you in the hope that this may open doors to new opportunities and also encourage others to leave Islam.
As for anti-Islam organizations, there are none. Every anti jihad or anti Islam website is run by volunteers who do free work and spend from their own money. We do this because we love humanity and don’t want to see the world destroyed by a demonic cult.
Meanwhile, you can start a blog on www.freedombulwark.com and write anonymously.
I wish you success
Ali
Only now, after being 50 years a Muslim, do i realise that such a challenge is the most stupid and the most childish of all. All this time I had not been courageous enough to even think this way. Of course its impossible to produce a similar verse the same way as others would be able to produce this stuff that I’m writing now. Unless of course you want to plagriase. Honestly, like Ali Sina, I dont find the verse beautiful at all. I only had been forced to admit that it was beautiful through indoctrination or brainwashing from the time I was born. That’s all there is to it. Such stupidity and childishness of the challenge couldn’t be from the almighty Allah at all. It must have been from some one crazy and stupid but at the same time wanted to be made a prophet.
It is not correct that because Islam is real or best that it has enemies, the enimity is because it is barbarious, anti human, anti freedom, medivial and retrogative.
slave of islam'
"–I AGREED THAT ISLAM IS THE ONLY REAL RELIGION IN THE WORLD—OTHERWISE IT COULD NOT HAVE SUCH A BIG ENEMY GROUP BECAUSE ONLY REAL AND BEST THINGS ATTRACT BIG ENEMIES".
Since muhammadanism has made the rest of humanity its enemy, by your argument, your islam is petite, cruel and senseless. It is fit only for the dustbin of history.
//"all muslims who are entering the site dont believe these stories because they are the members of group who are trying to destroy Islam"//
While knowing that IS a reason to be skeptical, the Muslims who do not believe these stories primarily or only because of the intentions of the groupmembers of this site are very stupid and deceiving themselves. Because the truth is the truth. The sitegroupmembers could well be in majority well-thinking people, ex-Muslims, searchers for the truth, and their anti-Islam-attitude could well have derived from genuine research and experience of and disappointment in Islam. Or it's trustworthyness.
The Muslims who DON'T believe the sitegroupmembers solely for their alignments, make the mistake of throwing away the message because of the messengers.
The more limited Muslims who do this are not capable of thinking logically. and the ones that are smarter are just clinging to one more excuse to stay in Islam, for wrong reasons,
such as being loyal to loved ones and community, safety (because apostasy is very dangerous) and gambling on heaven and fear of hell (which they do not dare to give up, not even for truth).
//"otherwise it could not have such a big enemy group because only real and best things attract big enemies''// That is just one more excuse, and a false reason from you. If this is true, why don't you follow America or Democracy, which are also very successfull and powerful, with the many enemies??? Please be consistent then. But no, you just look for excuses.
anyway, when will you recognize true and best religions and ideologies and practices? Only when such religions etc have become successful? But even Mohammed had to start somewhere, and his movement was initially very small. So initially people like you would NOT have followed him, but say, the much more common belief in Christianity or polytheism at the time?
So more truthful and potentially better religions or lifestyles could even now be around, not yet attracting so much attention and enemies, like Ali Sina's, but you would reject them, simply because of THAT?
//"Your intentions were wrong and you didn't care for the truth."//
I think SCIENCE cares for the truth. And logic. This ex-Muslim also somehow cared enough for the truth because he, very admirably, after pondering long and hard, gave up on his livelyhood and he risked the relations with his many, beloved fellow-Muslims. His interest lay in believing and propagating Islam, yet he went against it. That makes him more honest, trustworthy, not less!
//"Too many people move away from what will give them the truth because they've been fed lies and misinformation."//
Agreed. And on top of that as adults so many Muslims present us with their motivation to stay in Islam, which do not pertain to searching for the highest truth they can find. A concept that many Muslims do not even seem to comprehend!
Because Muslims sometimes tell us that they want to be loyal to family and community, and tradition,
which then clearly TRUMPS searching for the truth. And if only they would admit it, but they always cling to saying that they next to being loyal to Islam ALSO believe Islam is true. But they should not be able to have BOTH; loyalty and the highest truth they can find!
Furthermore Islam has the VERY OUTRAGEOUS tenet that apostates should be punished, with death. And many Muslims confirm this in polls.
Now how in God's name can Muslims still claim that they search for the highest truth they can find, if they prohibit Muslims to leave Islam, in case truer competitors of Islam, and parts of Islam, arise. And oh, through Science, and progress, education, the internet, those truer competitors long since have arisen, for all to see!
But the Majority of Muslims, isn't interested in finding the highest truth they can find, in a diligent manner. And the real outrage is that they refuse to admit it! Or perhaps that they are too much indoctrinated as children and too limited or too dishonest to see that they actually do choose staying in Islam, with their loved ones, and in safety, OVER searching for and then choosing the highest truth they can find.
The writer of the e-mail was the positive admirable exception among Muslims!
all this story ex- muslim scholar is fake. he cant be a true scholar.lest he should know the hadith that in the JUDGEMENT DAY big scholars will be brought and thrown to hell only because he became a scholar to earn name instead of GOD's happiness. all muslims who are entering the site dont believe these stories because they are the members of group who are trying to destroy Islam.surely i agreed that Islam is the only real religion in the world……otherwise it could not have such a big enemy group because only real and best things attract big enemies.
//"No that's not what Islam says. What it says is, any act of worship should be done for Allah alone."//
You, "correction", cannot really say: "what Islam says or what Islam does not say". You can only say what your interpretation of Islam is. While Chuck presented FACTUAL TEXTS. Which are immutable according to literal interpretation of Islam.
Please in future say: "Well, that's not what MY INTERPRETATION of Islam says" and: "What MY INTERPRETATION of It says is:" etc.
You got to realize that the texts of Islam are IMMUTABLE, and of necessity limited, incomplete, vaque, ambiguous, obsolete.
And you got to realize that "inside Islam" there is NO AUTHORITY" who decides what Islam says and does not say, what Islam demands and forbids.
You got to realize no self-confessed Muslim can ever be kicked out of Islam due to false or heretic interpretation. Not even Al Azhar in Cairo can be this authority.
And it means that Islam is interpreted in many ways, all equally valid or invalid. You simply have no case against Chuck, or Ali Sina, on THEIR interpretations.
And how do you know you have not been lying to yourself? The tragedy is that those who know less about Islam are more convinced of it. They irony is that these less informed Muslims encourage others to deepen their knowledge.
No that's not what Islam says. What it says is, any act of worship should be done for Allah alone. If you eat at a nice restaurant by all means do it so you enjoy the good food. But, you've been fed, or have been feeding yourself lies and either are misled or purposely try to fortify your position by scrounged for scraps of illegitimate claims.
This guy wanted to be a star in the Islamic world. You don't study Islam and become a scholar to become a star. Your intentions were wrong and you didn't care for the truth. So the truth was taken from you. Too many people move away from what will give them the truth because they've been fed lies and misinformation.
LOL OMG I totally agree with you!!
& I just want to say that this website is a joke (as I'm sure you'll agree). Wow.
Hey ali anyway you can get me into contact with x Muslim Scholar?
Thanks
X Muslim Scholar,
I have been searching the internet for some time looking for someone to answer my questions and you seem to be the only person that I think is qualified enough to do so PLEASE CONTACT ME! My email address is [email protected]
slaveofprophet, you surely fool. pls use ur sixth sence. very very ugly knowledge
Chill…*pokes*
Wheres the crystal….ah…not original
@Shoopsy
//The fact that someone is an illiterate doesn't mean he can't understand some normal day to day buying and selling affairs//
Muhammad wasn't doing normal day to day buying or selling like a grocer. He was involved in international trade, first with Alu Talib and then he was employed as an agent with Khadijah to transact in Syria. Your point of view doesn't cut ice in that sense.
//When we emphasize on his illiteracy we are trying to draw the attention of people to the fact that he couldn't have written such a book //
I know. But nobody claims that Muhammad wrote Quran. He had employed scribes who did that for him. We can only cavil at what exchanges were going on between Muhammad and his scribes, whether they were correcting, editing etc.
//Other Poets of his time couldn't imitate the style because it was so divinely unique//
To you and other muslims and some lovers of Islam it may look and sound divine. And I am sure you haven't read other poets of his time. Secondly since Quran is a religious text, and it itself claims that there is nothing like itself, and every Muslim must see divinity in Quran, hence you won't even accept that other works of that time deserve any qualitative analysis.
//If he had written it and his writing had surpassed that of other poets, history will confirm that he we the greatest poet of those times but history records nothing of such.//
By 'he' do you mean Muhammad? Well I don't think you can call Quran a poem, it isn't much lyrical. Second Muhammad sole claim was prophethood. He HAD TO pass on Quran as a text from Allah. He couldn't possibly have claimed authorship for himself. Secondly it is a fact that he had many scribes of which at least one apostatized (and returned only when Islam become powerful), so even if he wanted to go for glory as a poet that door was shut for him. So the two premises you have set are fallacious: "If he had written it" – he couldn't say it since he had scribes doing the job (at least for most part) and his claim to authorship wasn't the position he wanted to take AND "his writing had surpassed that of other poets" – We don't have much sample from other poets.
Mother Goddess loves everyone equally. That is why I said "…whoever understands the relationship with the Mother properly…"!
Well…still ur jealous…cos those u worship love him more…
No I am not jealous. I believe in Mother Goddess and whoever understands the relationship with the Mother properly, does not become jealous of others no matter how much others have, and no matter how little s/he (Mother's devotee) has.
@ Shoopsy Here is crystal clear proof that Muhammad fabricated the Quran and everything about Allah, Jannat, Jahannum, and about his prophethood-
As you well know, Mo…err… Allah said whoever dies fighting in Jihad against the enemies of Mo…err…Allah's religion, goes straight to Jannat where he gets to enjoy everything that he ever wished for in this world, including the best wine and most sexy houries. The 'martyr' does not even have to wait till judgement day. He goes straight to Jannat the moment he dies in Islam's cause.
If you have read the Hadiths, even casually, then you know that Muhammad was very fond of beautiful women.
Yet he never showed any eagerness in putting his life on risk, let alone die in the battle. According to Sahih Bukhari (Book 4 Vol 52 Hadith 54) – Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is! Were it not for some men amongst the believers who dislike to be left behind me and whom I cannot provide with means of conveyance, I would certainly never remain behind any Sariya' (army-unit) setting out in Allah's Cause. By Him in Whose Hands my life is! I would love to be martyred in Al1ah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred.
(Note: Above I have provided a link to quranexplorer, which is a site run by Muslims).
Here is link to a webpage that shows how eager Muhammad was to die for the cause of Allah. After you are done reading through it, ask yourself why he made excuses for himself if there really is a Jannat. It should take you mere seconds to realize that the whole thing was a ruse set up by narcissist Muhammad, so he can enjoy as much dominance over others as he can (including on his stupid believers) as long as he gets to live on this planet!
Oh….ur jealous…of him…
I heard word 'lie' too often, until sleepy… cos its so weak…. that ur too afraid to question me…
The Quran is unique and different from other writings, that is correct. However, what the experts were really marveling at was the stupidity of Muslims. They were saying "It is unbelievable how many stupid people see this uniquely bad and worthless writing to be a holy text". And they knew of the violence that Muslims are capable of. They wanted the head on their shoulders to remain intact.
["how did he get to talk about the universe in a way that only a deity or something divine has the right to talk about."]
Because he was a narcissist! Narcissism is a mental condition where the person likes to see himself being praised by everyone, and obeyed by everyone, as if he is the most important person in the universe! And he looks for ways how he can achieve that. Muhammad figured out his own way of achieving that. Study about Narcissism and also read Ali Sina's book "Understanding Muhammad" so you know what was really going on!
[“When we emphasize on his illiteracy we are trying to draw the attention of people to the fact that he couldn’t have written such a book “]
He (Muhammad) certainly did ‘reveal’ the Quran. When you compare Mo’s personality to the personality of Quran’s revealer, you realize that there is barely any difference between the two. That is possible only if Muhammad and Allah are one and the same man!
[“Other Poets of his time couldn’t imitate the style because it was so divinely unique.”]
The other poets couldn’t imitate the style because the Quran’s style is so cheap and low class that there is no way master poets can imitate it. For example, I have been riding a bicycle for many years. If you ask me to imitate the riding style of someone who is riding a two-wheeler for the first time in his life, of course I will fail to imitate him! And idiots will say “OMG all the experts failed to imitate his style, he must be a holy man”!
My dear,
You have been utterly deceived. Islam is based on deceptions and lies. No one ever has extolled the beauty of the Quran. This is a bogus claim that Muslims make and they have repeated it so much that they believe it.
As for pharaoh’s story please see this article http://alisina.org/blog/2012/09/22/pharaoh-in-the… and see for yourself how you have been lied to.
As for the knowledge of universe, Muhammad had none. That fool even thought the moon is above the stars and that the sun sets and rises from the sea and every day asks permission form Allah to rise and Allah give it permission. One day this permission will be denied and the sun goes back to rise from the west.
I don’t want to cause you indigestion, so let us answer your questions one at a time. But rest assured that they are all answered.
He just knew how to scribble things down.If we agree to what you said how come the experts of those times we marveled with the way the Quran was written in unique way different from other writings. ? It is not his handwork. How did he come about the verse in the Quran which Allah spoke about preserving the body of pharoah so he would be a sign for generations to come. The preserved body of pharoah still exist today. He forged that too? how did he get to talk about the universe in a way that only a deity or something divine has the right to talk about. How did he know about the fision of the big bang theory later discovered today by scientist.? common guys
The fact that someone is an illiterate doesn't mean he can't understand some normal day to day buying and selling affairs .When we emphasize on his illiteracy we are trying to draw the attention of people to the fact that he couldn't have written such a book . Other Poets of his time couldn't imitate the style because it was so divinely unique. If he had written it and his writing had surpassed that of other poets, history will confirm that he we the greatest poet of those times but history records nothing of such.
I doubt if any Muslim can say that since we all know that it is very very important for books to be translated in order to reach different parts of the world.
I would love to read the book or perhaps you can write it as an internet article. Would love to see your sources on how Islam grew on terror. did you see this link ;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_letters_to_the_Heads-of-State .. The letters Muhammed sent to other countries.Tell me which of these countries did he conquer by terror .
@knowTheEnemy
It is true that Muhammad worked in a financial position in Khadija's trading firm to put it in modern terms :-). Any logical person can conclude from this that Muhammad couldn't possibly have been completely illiterate. Perhaps he wasn't a scholar or something but Muslims keep on harping this 'Muhammad was illiterate' line ad nauseam.
I think Muhammad could read and write (I remember reading that he was a accountant for some time) but he had no understanding of literature. He was an ordinary hungry man who just happened to know how to a scribble a few things down.
//"Each one has his way and each one will answer for himself. The only thing we have to do is to strive with sincerity towards Him and it is His duty to guide us"//
Well, it is admirable what you say about the most important thing to do in life and asking and trying to answer the excellent questions you presented here. I agree with much of what you write, but ..
– For that we need good enough democratic rule, without interfering censors of free speech and imprisoners and even killers of dissenters. And Shariah laws have in them 33 anti-democratic principles, Nonie Darwish says.
– The most un- and anti-democratic shariah-law is deathpenalty for apostasy. which is highly unfair. Prohibiting young muslims to exercise real free choice and really CHOOSE religion or non-religion and genuinely seeking the truth, the highest truth and nothing but the truth.
– You say Islam is the best chance on salvation. And salvation, or life after death, is really great, but …. if it can't be proved, is it realistic to gamble and wholeheartedly depend on it, when it might by untrue?
Of course, it might be true too, but then again it might be something ALL HUMANS or ALL WELL-BEHAVED HUMANS get, regardless if they do or do not follow a religion, and if so, which one.
There is no real evidence, I think, that Muslims have better chances in the afterlife. It is only a gamble, that gives false comfort, to trust on the unproven promises and guarantees of Islam. Belief in it does not cause the mere wish to come true, believers seem always to forget that.
Pascal's Wager (in the case of Muslims the gamble that Islam is right) is in the 21st century a very low-chance gamble, what with all the knowledge and logic available now.
You might much better gamble on Ali Sina's idea about the afterlife, in light of the evidence from Near Death Experiences, than on Islam's unproven guarantees
That is just what you wish. So you are able to deny the implications of what the ex-muslim scholar and Ali Sina are saying.
I SUSPECT that is;
So you can stay in your comfort zone, hold on to the religion and the rituals that you are accustomed to. And keep good relations with your fellow Muslims and your loved ones.
So you can keep reassuring yourself that you will go to Jannat/ heaven. While the thought of losing THAT is horrible for you. Even if you were presented with tons of evidence, very convincing evidence,
that Islam is manmade, not divine, and so cannot guarantee any heaven, even then you could not bring yourself to give up your belief in and dependence on JANNAT.
If you stay in Islam for the beauty of it, the love of your loved ones, and loyalty to your community, then admit so.
But Islam wants you to do more than just follow it's rules, it wants you to believe it's highly improbable and contradicted story and promises of heaven.
Coming from a man in the 7th century. But you live in the 21st century and people are now on average much better educated, informed, logical and indeed more intelligent.
When IQ-tests are compared between # 1918 and now we see that the average person now tests considerably better than the average person then. How much more intelligent and logical are humans now than they were in the 7th century?! When the average person was much more gullible than the average person now!
And how about the future? With for instance Big Data (80 % of which is from the last 2 years!) the average person get's ever more elevated above the 7th century gullible humans. Yet you still want to believe them and not the most brilliant minds of the 21st century, who contradict Islam and Mohammed on very important essential facts or probabilities?!
And remember, even if what you say is true, then still it is the arguments, the message that you should consider carefully, NOT the messenger, because by focusing on the messenger, you only give yourself an excuse to ignore or deny it. A denial you so desperately need.
No I don't think the Quran cannot be translated. This silly claim is made by Muslims who say you cannot understand the Quran unless you read it in Arabic.
I am working on a book, The Life of Muhammad under the Light of Reason that shows how Islam grew. It grew with terror and deception.
Look my friend there is no beauty in the Quran. It is a very stupid book and there is no verse that is eloquent. It is clear that the author of that book had not read a single book in his entire life. That is why no one enjoys reading the Quran and people, including Muslims get bored after reading a few passages. On the contrast the Bible is a literary master piece, not because the words are from God but because it was written by scholars and learned men who knew how to write. Muhammad did not know how to write and because of that the Quran is an asinine book, utterly confusing and extremely boring. The challenge is ridiculous. It is like a lunatic claiming to be a ingenious. Did you at the link I provided at the end of that page? Someone wrote several suras in the same style of the Quran but a thousand times better. It has good message and no violence and no hate.
E H Palmer, as early as 1880, recognized the unique style of the Qur'an. But he seem to have been wavering between two thoughts. He writes in the Introduction to his translation of the Qur'an:
That the best of Arab writers has never succeeded in producing anything equal in merit to the Qur'an itself is not surprising. In the first place, they have agreed before-hand that it is unapproachable, and they have adopted its style as the perfect standard; any deviation from it therefore must of necessity be a defect. Again, with them this style is not spontaneous as with Muhammad and his contemporaries, but is as artificial as though Englishmen should still continue to follow Chaucer as their model, in spite of the changes which their language has undergone. With the Prophet, the style was natural, and the words were those in every-day ordinary life, while with the later Arabic authors the style is imitative and the ancient words are introduced as a literary embellishment. The natural consequence is that their attempts look labored and unreal by the side of his impromptu and forcible eloquence.
The famous Arabist from University of Oxford, Hamilton Gibb was open upon about the style of the Qur'an. In his words:
"…the Meccans still demanded of him a miracle, and with remarkable boldness and self confidence Mohammad appealed as a supreme confirmation of his mission to the Koran itself. Like all Arabs they were the connoisseurs of language and rhetoric. Well, then if the Koran were his own composition other men could rival it. Let them produce ten verses like it. If they could not (and it is obvious that they could not), then let them accept the Koran as an outstanding evident miracle."
Can't you agree that if the Quran were his composition other men could rival it and if his own had succeeded to be the best , then he would have been the greatest poet of their time. Now see what Quran says in Surah YA-SEEN 36:69-70 to back the fact that he knew nothing about writing nor was he a poet:
" 69:And we have not taught him poetry , nor is it meet for him.This is only a Reminder and a plain Quran"
"70: That he or it ( Muhammed or the Quran) may give warning to him who is living and that word may be justified against the disbelievers:
And in some other place, talking about the Prophet(P) and the Qur'an, he states:
Though, to be sure, the question of the literary merit is one not to be judged on a priori grounds but in relation to the genius of Arabic language; and no man in fifteen hundred years has ever played on that deep-toned instrument with such power, such boldness, and such range of emotional effect as Mohammad did.
As a literary monument the Koran thus stands by itself, a production unique to the Arabic literature, having neither forerunners nor successors in its own idiom. Muslims of all ages are united in proclaiming the inimitability not only of its contents but also of its style….. and in forcing the High Arabic idiom into the expression of new ranges of thought the Koran develops a bold and strikingly effective rhetorical prose in which all the resources of syntactical modulation are exploited with great freedom and originality.
WHY DON"T YOU OBSERVE THIS VERSE BELOW CAREFULLY AND SEE THAT PROPHET MUHAMMED HAS NO HANDS IN THIS REVELATION.
"Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against God, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what God hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! – the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against God, and scornfully to reject of His signs!" (The Noble Quran, 6:93)"
CAN YOU PLEASE BRING ANOTHER ISSUE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE SO WE CAN DISCUSS ON THAT TOO.
SECONDLY, said the Quran says" But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith". Qur'an 2.24
The verse is simply talking about those who tried or will try that they will fail because they disbelieved, they doubted, they said it was written by our prophet , they said he's crazy and delusional .and verily the punishment of a disbeliever is hell fire.
It's just like the way Christians do say that anyone with Jesus Christ does not have salvation and hell will be the dwelling place of such a person so why are you trying to find fault in Islam when such cases are okay with the Christians.
How can you twist this to mean that if they cannot produce it , Muhammed had them killed. Why are you trying to spread mischief. I dare you to produce an article with a credible source which says that if anyone tries to meet up with the challenge and he/she is unable to produce a Surah , Muhammed or Muslim council had them executed. If you can't then Indeed you should fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones.
As regards the Arabic language, the primary importance is the MESSAGE conveyed , beauty is secondary. It really has nothing to do with the message. If the reader sees it as beautiful good and if the reader concentrates on the message conveyed , even better.
You said and I quote: " Is this justice? To add insult to injury God chooses a language that according to Muslims is impossible to translate in any other language and therefore we can’t even see the beauty of his work in translation."
Seriously? are you really serious by saying the language of Arabic is impossible to translate into any other language? please I need to confirm that before I give you an answer or I can just leave the answer to any random blogger.
FOR THOSE WHO THINK THAT ISLAM WAS PROPAGATED BY "SWORD" , a word which you will never find in the Quran unlike the bible , HERE IS A LINK FOR YOU TO SEE THE HUMILITY IN THE WAY OUR PROPHET PROPAGATED ISLAM   ;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_letters_to_the_Heads-of-State. After reading, I want someone to question me that he conquered those countries because they rejected his letter.
Answers in regards to Surat Baqarah 2:23 " And if you are in doubt concerning that which we have sent down , then produce a Surah of the like thereof and call your helpers besides Allah if you are truthful"
I read the explanation you gave on your website http://www.faithfreedom.org/faq/65.htm
You said and I quote " The claim that the Quran is unique and no one can produce anything like it is a logical fallacy. All books are unique. Each person is different and unique. You can’t find two people alike. No two finger prints are alike, no two voices are alike, no two minds are alike, etc. No one can think and write in the exact same way that I do just as no one can think and write in the exact same way that you do. Of course many people can write much better than me, but not like it. So the challenge to produce a Surah like those written by Muhammad is nothing but a fallacy. "
Remember the verse says create a "…surah like it thereof…". The verse didn't say create the same thing. what you are thinking is that the verse says create the surah of the exact same type or same thing . We all know no one can create exact same thing. using the example I used above, if the person tries to create a person A with it's own uniqueness, free from mistakes and errors because he's human ,it will never be like the prototype A because to produce his own A , he'll now have to depend on some of the contents of the Original A.
Don't forget that in those days of the prophets ,there were Arab poets who used to write beautiful poems. The best of the best and they seem to have difficult writing something that could stand beside the Quran because of the way the Quran was written, they were so arrogant and egocentric that the product their of type, they'd make sure they don't use some important words contained in the Quran which made if even more difficult for them .
You said and I quote " If you tell me find a woman as beautiful as the one I love, this challenge can't be met because you love only that woman. She may not be the prettiest, but because you love her, you become blind to her defects. Beauty is in the eyes of beholder"
I smile at this example because it isn't a good example because " … find a woman as beautiful as the one I love." means without prejudice in that man's heart, he should know that his woman can never be the most beautiful so finding a woman as beautiful as one he loves is very easy except if he chooses not to love the woman they he finds .BEAUTY AND LOVE are two different things and since he loves one woman so much it will be crazy to say find me a woman that I love more than my wife, which is impossible.
Well I have presented my evidences through my book and hundreds of writings.
In regards to Muhammad's challenge to bring "a sura like it: you can read my response here http://faithfreedom.org/faq/65.htm
Hello Ex Muslim scholar,
You said you left Islam because of some reasons which you think is enough for you to leave Islam. OKAY.
I want you to remember that Islam, Christianity, Judaism and so on are religions and they have a certain background from which they originate one way or the other. You said you discovered somethings . You were once a scholar, you are knowledgeable, you've read books and I believe you know the Quran inside out or even up side and down. If you know the Quran as you claim, why can't you at least honour the challenge the Quran itself put forward . The Quran tells us that if anyone doubts this book, bring forth your proof if ye are truthful. What I want now is to please educate and point out those facts that you have or those inconsistencies or contradictions or anything else that is substantial enough to make any Muslim doubt the religion of Islam. Please put forth your claim because a lot of people can easily support you no knowing you're haven't even put forth any reason why the religion is not worth following.I hope you understand me .please reply, we really want to know those evidences that you have .
http://www.islaminindia.org/uncategorized/why-wil…
The size of earth in the visible universe is like a drop of water in the entire ocean, of all the oceans in the world. Or like a sand grain in the seashore, of all the seashores of the world. Would the creator of such a vast universe be bothered if tiny humans living on a tiny planet worship Him as the only God and follow Muhammad or not? A journey by an airplane gives an indication as to how insignificant we are even on this earth. Looking down from an airplane, humans seem less than ants. Imagine ourselves as the creator of all the sand particles on the seashore of all the seashores of the world. Would we be so concerned that tiny creatures living on one tiny particle somewhere unknown follow us and if they don’t worship us, would we burn them in Hell? Or would we be so concerned about tiny viruses living on a drop of water somewhere deep down in the Pacific Ocean? Imagine one such small creature who lives in a drop of water somewhere down the Pacific Ocean telling others that he is the Messenger of the Creator of all oceans i.e. us and if other viruses (which are so tiny that they are invisible) do not follow him, we will roast them in Hell forever. How ridiculous would it sound?
A well-known scholar and perhaps the most knowledgeable person on Islam in the world today, Ali Sina, has given an apt analogy. Imagine if there is an ant colony somewhere in our garden. Would we burn ants in fire and torture them if they don’t worship us as the only Savior? Our garden and ants are still very significant, as compared to humans and the Universe. Our Milky Way galaxy is utterly insignificant in it. Then our solar system is an invisible speck inside this galaxy and then there is Earth. Even the sun, which we see everyday, is some 15 crore kilometers away from the earth, i.e. 150 million kilometers and it takes light a good 8 minutes to reach the earth from the sun. What is our significance in this universe? Nothing! Would the maker of such a vast universe be offended if we humans don’t worship him? It is utterly foolish to say such thing. The Hubble Space Telescope has detected galaxies that are 46 billion light years away from each direction of the Earth. That is an expanse of 92 billion light years from one side of the observable universe to the other side. The observable universe, which is 92 billion light years wide is not all the universe. The complete universe is much, much bigger. According to some calculation, the whole universe would have grown to some 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times the size of the observable universe. That is 10 followed by 24 zeros. Put in another way, the complete universe is to the observable universe, as the observable universe is to an atom.
Now, let us assume that the Creator (Assuming God exists) of this vast universe does indeed want all humans to worship Him as the only God and follow his only true religion. Surely He can do so in better ways. He can create mankind in a manner whereby everyone born with belief suited to him. He can alter human brain in a manner whereby everyone will naturally worship Him as the only God and follow His last Messenger. or he can show Himself to humanity, or at least send his angels to show them to humanity.
Style of both the letter and the answer are the same. The questioner and the answerer are the same persons.
Part 4: Many persons have fallen in the category above. Many Christians seeing that Jesus cannot be God or that Christianity clashes with Science, rejected religion outright without giving other religions a chance. On top of this Bin Laden and Al Qaida has been making such a negative publicity for Islam…Other Christians are just Christians just for namesake adopting Christianity more as a culture rather than a religion. In Europe you’ll see many places where it has been written “For Sale” in Churches’ property. Some Hindus or Tamils cannot no longer able to accept their multiplicity of Gods have either been doing the upward spiral or have just shrugged off the question. It’s not a surprise why religion is a taboo matter (it hurts because of the pain of unanswered questions) or why the young are disgusted with religion…
As Confucius the Chinese prophet said, even a journey of a thousand miles starts with a first step. And according to me this is the most important search in every person's life i.e why we are here and what for and by Whom? etc
I have found peace in the teachings of Islam Ahmadiyya which re explains the concepts of Islam in a modern light yet in its pristine form. This had to be so as all religions has their ups and downs. At the darkest moment of Islam, God raised the Promised Messiah – Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as in Islam itself to
1. refute all false additions by the so-called Islamic scholars
2. refute all false or unjustified criticisms against Islam or its Prophet.
3. answer why our chances of getting salvation in Islam is greater than in any other religions.
4. refute all the philosophers/atheists criticisms against religion.
5. explain why all religions differ but yet came from the same God initially.
6. usher a new era of peace and real brotherhood, justice and love among mankind.
So dear brothers, this is my overall view of religion topic today and before advising you, I have practiced. Each one has his way and each one will answer for himself. The only thing we have to do is to strive with sincerity towards Him and it is His duty to guide us to Him as He says in Ch 29 last verse:
"As for those who strive in our ways, it is up to us to guide them"
Hope everyone of you finds true peace and fulfilment.
Read more on this topic on : http://www.alislam.org
or http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Philosophy-o…
Part 3: And then in this enquiry, some go upwards in a spiral way: From Hinduism to Christianity, then to Unitarian Christianity and then to Judaism or Islam (if the flame for enquiry was not extinguished before!).
One example is that of Salman the Persian in the 7th century AD. He was a Magian (he prayed the Fire) in Old Persia. Then finding no sense of fulfilment in it, he converted into Christianity and emigrated into Syria and became a priest there. He then heard that the Promised Prophet will appear in Arabia (Deuteronomy 18:18) and emigrated there. And finding the Prophet Muhammad there, he became a Muslim. He died thus finding solace and fulfilment in it.
On the other hand there are also those who are overwhelmed by the sheer weight of the inquiry and just shrugged their shoulders and try to forget about it.
And then, there also those who were disillusioned in their search by not adopting the right way of research and the necessary effort, by not truly appreciating the weight of the question.
And there are also, those who have been disillusioned by their own religions and then say that all religions are false (their ego being hurt) and say that there is no such thing as a God and ask flimsy questions such as:
1)If there were a God, why is there suffering in the world?
2)Why are there wars? Or religion is the cause of wars…
3)Or that religions are governed by corrupted elites…
4)Why are there famines, earthquakes and tsunamis where even innocents are killed?
Part 2:
Because you must remember, each one of us is born in some religion and we have a natural preference for it. If we had been born Hindu or Chinese, would it not have been the same?
So you would agree that in 99% of the cases God has willed that arrived at the age of maturity (15 upwards), each youth begins to ask questions and make a genuine inquiry about the 5 levels I told you (if he gives a genuine thought to it!).
Refusing to do so (in any religion he may be) would be bold and reckless on his part. God will judge anyone who dies making inquiries in His path.
Even those 1% who happens to be born in the right religion or sect are not absolved of making the inquiry as they still need to confirm that they are indeed in the right one. So all will start at par (if they decide to), at their age of maturity, to go and confirm that their religion is the right one with the result that most will see that it is not so and also be faced with the resulting question of will they (be bold enough to) do/accept the change? (with its impact on their families and friends?).
In the search of God, I have adopted the following methodology. I am a born Muslim. At some point in my life, I began questioning everything. So this is how I proceeded. I would like to analogize it with the method of the philosopher Rene Descartes:
Level 1: Is there a God? (what are the proofs that satisfies me?)
Level 2: If there is, what does He want of us?
Level 3: Why are there so many different religions, and what is their purpose?
At this point I believe that there is a God.
If you now choose Islam/Judaism/Christianity as religion:
Level 4: Why is Islam/Judaism/Christianity divided in so many sects? And which one today really is fullproof?
I chose Islam at this point- the latest revealed religion with a Book and a Prophet.
If you proceed like this I believe you’ll get a broader picture of all things and will be in a better position to make your choice.
@Islamperfect
It seems even Mohammed did not escape from Satan's spell,other wise he would,not have raped Ayesha an innocent kid.
Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Raheem if satan comes and confuses u that doesn't mean islam is wrong u r lacking knowledge wisdom and understanding by the sounds of it u wasn't a true Muslim anyway Allah SWT accepts that which is pure because Allah SWT is pure. U have no right Ali sina to guide anyone because u have no wisdom all ur words are accusations they resemble satans words which he whispers into the hearts of mankind just because I got fooled by satan into abandoning the faith because it got a little bit testing u coward what gives u the right to weaken fellow human beings? If u want to burn in hell don't take others with u let them decide for themselves what islam is we don't need ur opinions ur just another sheep lost and in need of guidance because Satan has taken u far away 🙁 ur a fool stop fooling others
Namaste
I think Muhammad was brutal , insecure and fond of sensual happiness. He was not aware of the real form of soul of living being. He was liar,deceiver of his followers. Dr. Ali Sina you are exposing Islam and saving Muslims from doing sinful acts. Your every action is contributing as Punya Karma. In my opinion you are like real Indian sage(Rishi) . I would like to help you in your journey of spirituality. I suggest you to get knowledge from Brahmakumaris and Art of Living Foundation .
@ NEElU and sudha
What about your spiritual masters like Asaram and Narayan sayi ,they are far more worst than Mohammed.
neelu you are right
HINDUISM SENDS SPIRITUAL MASTERS WITHOUT INTERRUPTION AND IS DEPENDABLE THROUGH ALL AGES
Dear Zitouni,
I think you have not good knowledge of Quran and Arabic because the meaning of "unabbi-ukum dhālika ilahi warasūlihi al-muj'rimūna wainna sharra l-dun'yā" is I inform you that the Allah and his Messenger the criminals and indeed worst of the world. but it is you who gave a wrong answer and proved that you are not able to understand English as well as Arabic.
You want to test me whether I know Arabic or not and meantime you are writing the so called verse with latin alphabete . How come you did not use the same thing with this so called scholar of Islam you just swollowed what Ali Sina said and accepted that scholar of Islam left Islam without saying to him wait a minute prove to me that you real scholar you are smart ass only with claims made by Muslims .
I tried to write what you had above in Arabic and this is what I got
أنبائكم دلك إلهي ورسوله المجرمون وإن شر دنيا
There is no such verse in koran and also this sentence make no sense in Arabic it goes in English as
I will fully inform ( or tell ) you that is my God and his messenger outlaws ( criminals or the guilty ) and indeed
evil ( unequity or wickedness) of the world
This verse has no meaning even in English . This is what I believe Arab atheists trying to write a verse which is like koran and they usually end up with rubish
Dear Zitouni,
There is an atheist and he want to know the meaning of this Arabic verse kindly help him to get the meaning if you are true and you know Arabic very well.
"unabbi-ukum dhālika ilahi warasūlihi al-muj'rimūna wainna sharra l-dun'yā"
I believe in Yesus as a Messenger of God.
The life journey of Mr Ali Sina is touching. When he was nine years old, suffered from serious diseases, and almost died. Fortunately God wanted another, he lives up to now.
Unfortunately Mr Ali did not appreciate the gift of God, moreover he doubted the existence of God, he sometimes claimed to be a prophet, but do not believe life after death.
I believe in Yesus as a messanger of God.
I believe in Jesus and I love my dearest Ms Dr Ali Sina. 🙂
Dear all, Do you believe Bible or Ali Sina.
@zitouni
//how come you have people in jail because they challeged 6M jews died in WWII where is democracy then//
Please post the reference or source here before throwing wild allegations. By the way I had a detailed discussion with you regarding this 6 million figure and I showed you with population stats from pre war and post war Poland and other affected countries that between 5 and 6 million Jews must have perished just before and during the war.
"CAN THEY HAVE CUSTODY OF THE KAABA? NO".
No the cannot because the kaaba is associated with Arabian paganism. All non Arab muhammadans had their pre-muhammadan pagan gods and shrines.
"CHIEF IMAMA OF MASJID-AL-HARAM/KAABA CAN BE ONLY AN ARAB".
Clear evidence that muhammadanism was meant for the Arabs only. Non Arabs can only operate in the periphery no matter how much they try to impose or ingratiate themselves into muhammadanism. Unfortunately the fools will never get it.
@slaveofprophet if Arabic is divine language means rest of them are man made. You proved Man is also equivalent to Allah, whatever Allah made man also made and developed more than his, and example is before your how much popular Arabic in this world and how many people speak and express their feelings? Thanks I think you are coming out from the bog of thug Mu-hum-mad.
how come you have people in jail because they challeged 6M jews died in WWII where is democracy then
You already know that Arabic is must in order to be scholar of Islam and koran as I told you before and yet you swalow that stupid story written by Ali Sina himself. Whe I asked to debate this so called scholar in Arabic Ali Sian reacted by saying that the so clled schoalr does not know Arabic LOL . When have you ever heard certified public accounter and math ignorant if you can find me one then I am wrong so is the same with scholar of Koran and Arabioc language
This so called expert of Islam is Ali Sina himself . I Know what scholar of Islam and Koran means . You have to be an expert and scholar of Arabic first which this guy is not . As for the video the German guy is not scholar of koran he is soembody who knows how to read ancient Arabic writing rthats all .
Hadith also claims Arabs are best
Sahih Bukhari 8.82.817:
…After a pause he (Abu Bakr) said, ‘O Ansar! You deserve all (the qualities that you have attributed to yourselves, but this question (of Caliphate) is only for the Quraish as they are the best of the Arabs as regards descent and home, and I am pleased to suggest that you choose either of these two men, so take the oath of allegiance to either of them as you wish. …
Sahih Bukhari 4.56.705:
Narrated Ibn `Umar: The Prophet said, “Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, even if only two of them remained.“
//how do you explain a situation where most of muhammadan scholars were non Arabs//
Can they have custody of Kaaba? No. Chief Imama of Masjid-al-Haram/Kaaba can be only an Arab.
Slavementality,
The kaaba is in Mecca because it was the seat of Arabian paganism which Muhammad ibn Amina re-branded as muhammadanism or islam, if that makes you happy.
If the Arabs were so blessed with the knowledge of muhammadanism, how do you explain a situation where most of muhammadan scholars were non Arabs? You will then agree that allah must have been most stupid to have made non Arabs dwarf its beloved race in knowledge of its creed.
Anand Sagar,
"THIS STATEMENT SHOWS YOU ARE A LUNATIC".
Absolutely. There can be no doubt about that.
@ salveof prophet
You are a slave of Arabs. Arabs must be deficient in intelligence for they have accepted Muhammad as a prophet of god and his barbaric cult i.e Islam as a religion of god. Go burn in hell with Muhammad and his companions.
This statement shows you are a lunatic.
Just as reminder, abu jahal and abu lahab also arabs. Listen, lets go back to history. Arab land, especially mecca is holy, cos of so many stories started from arab. As i ever said months ago, abraham and ismail story from arab, adam hawa, also the story why ka2bah put in mecca, cos 3arash was there, adams hajj, noahs ark hajj there, and when earth was being created, the first land was there. So bragging the gene without knowing the real reasons behind these, is wrong. We are all one, from earth various soil. And yes arabic is universal language, even before arabs existed.
@All
English is not divine language as Arabic. Arbic is world most scientific language. In Arabic views can be expressed in very short sentences which is not possible in other language. Non-Arabic language made by humans but Arabic is the language of universe. Arabic language make us most civilized people. Arabic language is source of all languages of the world.
My dear. First, you have to be able to differ. islam uses arabic, but arabic is for all. just like using english, doesnt mean we all are british. capisce? Is Arabic for arab only = english for england/british only?. arabs are called arabs, cos they use arabic as official language.
X')
Read my reply to him . I caught him lying . He is sick person and I asked long time ago for psychological evualtion
yes it smels and it is Ali Sina who wrote that email LOL . Read my reply and watch how he reacted when I asked to debate this so called schalar in Arabic . He did not wait for him to reply and he was the first to reply which indicates he is this so called scholar of islam LOL
read by reply and you will see . The so called scholar of Ilslam is Ali Sina I caught him lying again as usual
LOL so I was right this so called scholar of Islam is in fact you LOL . Where do they teach dummy fikh and Tafseer in Englsh ? as far as I know all islamic studies are done in Arabic and there is no such thing as scholar of Islam and Arabic ignorant . I caught you liar LOL . You claim I said because I know now it is you who wrote that email LOL
you studies Fiqh and all other stuff what Ulemas do. Ulemas LOL we say in Arabic Ulamas LOL do you know one of other stuff is Arabic language
I hold a degree in Islamic Studies. from what universtiy LOL .
I am a CERTIFIED ISLAMIC SCHOLAR.
you cant be if you are Arabic ignorant LOL
I mastered in Quranic Recitation,
in English LOL
I wrote a book on Quranic recitation
wow even if you are Arabic ignorant LOL
He is not an Arab. Why do you think only an Arab can debate Islam? If non-Arabs can't understand Islam why don't you tell them Islam is just for Arabs, we just came to loot and rape your ancestors?
I read comment made you some where that prophet muhamed claim to be a prophet and al we have just his claim so I am asking what prove did this so called scholar of Islam show you in order for you to believe his claim. Did he send you his diplomat and name of university where he got this diplomat . You are getting excited and writing article scholar of Islam leaves Islam . I think you wrote that email claiming to be a scholar . I have started an investigation to expose this so I asked him to debate me in Arabic about koran and if he does not reply then case closed and I proved my case
I think you are liar . If you are scholar of Islam and know Arbic can you debate me in Arabic language about koran
amerxp – you have chosen the right thing. The curse have been lifted from you thus now as you've chosen freedom to be your choice. A loving God, if there should be one as I believed there is, is not a God who force but would rather let the individual to choose for themselves whom they want to follow. God is not arbitrary. Freedom of choice was left to the individual to choose and not the other way round.
This reminds me of the Islamic scholar of Iranian origin – probably residing in Canada. On studying to become an Imam – learned Muhammad said that one day Islam would take over Persia and his men could steal their loot and rape their women. What kind of belief system – would you have to have in Islam to ignore this?
He learned Muhammad also said he would take over the Turks 'with their ugly faces and little noses'
He reported that Muhammad also called Aisha – in reference to all women – said that women are like dogs and donkeys. [In which Aisha challenged]
The man was out of control!
Muhammad's own biographer said Muhammad was simply making things up. And quote 'left Islam'. One of the apostates Muhammad was seen to have had mercy on – and did not kill – as he reportedly 'rejoined' it.
But you know – with all of this – Muhammad promised his followers supremacy. And so logic and reason and things which are normally within the realm of common sense go out of the window. This was Muhammad's changing 'will' [read: god's will] combined with intense fear – that still pervades the Islamic belief today.
For comparison Jesus on the other hand never required people to so called 'join' in this manner. The only requirement was that the individual spoke the truth. Whatever may have happened to the religion – its foundations are very different.
We do not know what this man uncovered to cause him to deeply question and then leave Islam.
Amer is the 1st name isn't it? "Bekic" is a Bosnian-Albanian 2nd name – why did you write your own name like that?
Lol someones noticed that too eh
18:5 No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood.
61:8 They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.
Ex-Sunni Muslim, and i coming from Bosnia. My name is Bekic Amer.
So . . .you claim to be an ex Muslim . . . of what background?
[See – Sina invents such stories aplenty as do many in comments – I have exposed a few]
Simple question . . . please answer.
No – it's not written by Sina. Difference in English. Sina's style of writing is different. But it is written by an American and not an Arab.
Educated – lies and works in Arabia . . .and cannot speak a word of Arabic? Hm m m m m
Read that blog . . . the forger could not answer and scarpered.
I reduced to making up lies about me . . . how petty.
– – –
Things have not gone well for you it seems. . . All that hate for Islam . . . and still no one wants to know you!
Hence . . . what really made it me laugh is . . . have you dropped the atheism?
Are you going to convert to Christianity?
– –
Hirsi-Ali was an Atheist darling . . . until her true colours came out . . . in support of Fundi Xtianity!
You! Looks like Spencer doesn't want you either . . .
Your lies are recorded in YOUR works. In the past – I have repeatedly exposed them and not received worthy answers.
I have torn through that book . . .and its many mistakes. This work: Is still ongoing.
http://exposingsina.wordpress.com/
I will finish it.
That is EXACTLY once what I pointed out . . . he could not answer. Please see this:
http://liberatednow.blogspot.co.uk/
Oh the stupidity of this blog makes me laugh!
The alleged writer "Shakila" has visited these forums.
Yes. I have been unwell for a long while . . . but I am coming back.
I could do with a laugh. . . and that book! And what happened to the movie?
– – –
Watch it right here folks . . . as I take this person apart . . . and his fiction.
I caught another of his forgery . . . and that is about Maulana Ajmal Qadri.
That is another such lie I exposed. . . and Sina could not answer.
@ Amin Riadh
Did it hurt that bad?
Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Beans) has not converted to Islam. This is a hoax for which Muslims have fallen. However, even if he did, it would only proof that he is not a smart man and it is in no way the proof of the truth of Islam. The fact that Islam is a lie is evidenced in the life and words of Muhammad. That won't change if someone is fooled by Islamic lies and think, e.g. the Quran contains numerical miracles of other lies like that.
Why all the letters addressed to you have the same style? Do you write them yourself? 🙂
Pfft its funny someone compares religion from personal abusive relationship….a pakistan woman left islam cos she got abused by her moslem man and then moved to west and met western christian guy who treated her good…..while i just read a woman from scotland left christianity and moved to arab cos her infidel bf abused her and now she married an arab guy who treated her like a queen and she said she feels like in heaven…pfft…how shallow persons who convert bcos of relationship, war or poverty..
Lol i thought shakila was sina…and had a male fiancee which means gay pfft..oh poor shakila..hmm…but the writing style…reminds me to someone 😉
hm? Who is shakila? I dont get it…too long..
First, before listening to someone's news we have to look at the teller's first. Is he a decent person. its easy to judge whether someone is trustable or not from how indecent he talks.
*nods* *nods*
Me and my man call it bedtime stowie…♥
Which is fiction? *pokes* i understand. U got brainwashed and you knew you would get shocked when you know all the bad talks were wrong. u dont like to look like proven wrong. i understand.
Ha ha ha ha . . . such posts make me laugh . . . "truth"?
So let us talk about this shambolic book of Sina's? Why so many lies? EVery 5th thing posted on here is a lie. And I have repeatedly posted them . . .
Do I get a decent response?
Do I? Nope. . . .
This site is as far away from "truth" as you can get.
Another of Sina's shameless lies . . . here is another such story that I put to bed!
http://liberatednow.blogspot.co.uk/
– – –
Does anyone really care about the truth? Of course not – as long as it is supposedly against Islam . . . shush!
This is not first such made up stories and it will NOT be the last.
When I hear some ex muslim (especially somebody from Islamia) talking like you, I fell hope. Hearing from former muslims, it does seems that islam is not doing so well and is going to fall.
And when muslims (those that are actually muslims) express their opinion instead of pighammed's opinion, seem afraid to the idea that their 'religion' will fall.
When I talk with muslims, I try to be polite if we are talking about things outside religion, but I don't trust them.
Many muslims fell self acomplishement if they become popular because of islam. When they leave islam, they understand they just wanted to be someone, and didn't care to serve their 'god'
/Did you also see a Muslim psychologist? /
You have not read carefully his post ,he did meat Muslim psychologist ………..ha ha ha,but no solutions,poor Muslim they don't have anything to contribute to the society except ,bombing the innocents.
I can imagine the relief you enjoyed … It must be quite liberating.
Religion can be a very intimate subject to many people, and sometimes it can be between life and death. Did you also see a Muslim psychologist?
"Leaving Islam is the greatest challenge to a Muslim".
Born and raised as a Muslim I had studied deep into religion. Muslims want to implement a seventh century system caled khilafa which did not even last for 30 years and three out of four ruler were killed by followers of each others. Muslims are not tolerant and are not open to ideas and a better system we have been brained washed into thinking that we are the only ones right on planet.
I started doubting religion sometime when I a was 17 years old.I was constantly worried that I was losing my faith (and for good reason cause I questioned everything!). I still had some faith going into college, but it was dwindling. I started considering myself as an agnostic. People who leave Islam usually do it because they had some bad experience with it, real-life experience. I have seen it destroy too many people, particularly women. I find it so interesting that Muslims cannot accept that people leave Islam. Something finally hit me and I decided that I was an atheist. The reality is that I really don’t care either way.
My philosophy is to live and let live. We don’t need an organized religion or a book telling us to be good. Good morals are something that we should be able to teach ourselves. I don’t know if god exists, nor do I go around saying that he doesn’t. I just choose to trust in science and the facts laid out before me. I won’t however go around questioning other peoples faith. That is not my place to do so.
First several weeks, there have been days when I’ve walked around with pure rage beating at my chest. I’m angry at myself for falling for an ideology that is so against my very nature. I’m angry at myself for burying my doubts under the curtain of denial and apologia. And so started a depression that would last almost 2 years. I could not allow myself to believe that Christians and unbelievers would go to hell, I kept telling myself 'No!, this can't be true!' And then I would hear the translation of the Quran and that would confirm my fears, I would cry every night, and I began to self harm. I cut myself and then proceeded to hit myself anywhere I could with a closed fist. I almost became suicidal, the only thing keeping me from it was probably the fact that I was scared and then people who commit suicide apparently will suffer in hell for eternity.I began doing this thing, I can't really explain it but I would put pressure on my chest, by squeezing my muscles when I was really hysteric in order to try and stop my heart from working, I often felt I was losing it, I lost all will to live. I would sometimes open the Quran translation and read it, and I couldn't get far because of how often God seemed to mention hell, and punishment. It was like this God of mine, was obsessed with punishment. All these years I was generally taken to a Muslim psychologist, and nothing ever changed, all my problems were still there.
At around the age of 19 I went to see a Christian psychologist and that's when my world began to turn around, he questioned everything and allowed me to feel safe in questioning, I allowed myself to feel angry to God for the first time, and found that that pent up anger was ruining me from the inside. I voiced my pain and I began to heal. Ever since then a whole new way of thought opened to me. I felt the bondage's of Islam loosen it's hold on me, and it was liberating, I have let them fall altogether, and I feel like a new person. Although no one yet knows, I have stopped praying but have chosen to be a humanist, but I still do however believe in God, not because of Islam, but because I found God myself. I may be an atheist, but I guarantee you that I donate money to charity as often as I can. I will buy lunch for a homeless man when I am able. I will go out of my way to help a stranger who is having car trouble in the middle of the road. But those people who represent Muslims will not.
X Muslim Scholar,
I want to get in touch with you to know more about islam teaching.
FICTION. It was while Muhammad was her 'manager', better still damager, that Khadijah lost her fortune. Even before her death she had been pauperized. At Yahtrib Muhammad was bankrupt and had to rely on armed banditry to survive.
Khadijah had children from her previous marriage. To show how selfish and wicked a character Muhammad was, he ruined the wealth left by those children's father and left them as destitute. There is no mention of those children being taken care of or having positions in Muhammad's kingdom. Instead of adopting them, he preferred to adopt his slave.
Arabs old tradition gave much recognition to women. Muhammad reversed that. The freeing of slaves had already been practiced by the Arabs before Muhammad came on the seen. Instead of erasing slavery, Muhammad encouraged it such that only Aisha would manumit 40 salves in just one day. The man was a total embodiment of evil.
Khadijah was rich. And prophet was her manager. He took her attention by increasing her wealth extremely with his honesty and skills. Its khadijah who fell in love with him first. And its khadijah who proposed him. So? Hey indeed its prophet who started raising womens pride, since arabs old tradition treated women so low. Its also prophet who erased slavery from old arabs tradition by declaring the rewards in akhirat for freeing slave. Islam even emphasizes freeing slaves. Tsk tsk.
@Guest,
//You didn't touch upon "God and My Right" is a sort of guiding value for the Brits"// …
Why should I? You haven't given any particular reason to link up the history of Kohinoor and the Muslim aggression in India and elsewhere. I see no perspective, neither do I see you providing one. Secondly the army that was fighting was under the supervision of the British East India Company not as a representation of the Queen. Thirdly the powers of the Monarch had itself been diminished to a representative Head of State, there may have been no reason to carry the Coat of Arm. Fourth, they might still have been wearing that insignia what does that prove? This is very different from how Mehmud vows to kill infidels in Jihad every year against the Hind.
//Please tell me if this is true. //
How can I tell you that? We have to take a vote in Britain to ascertain whether the motto of that coat of arm still has some significance with the British as a guiding principle in national psyche.
Why I left Islam
There are no "moderate" Muslims, just "Muslims". There are Muslims of varying submission and commitment to Islam. But, those who are not 100% committed in accordance with the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sharia law, are defined specifically in the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sharia law as apostates from the faith and deserve to be killed if they refuse to return. Those persons who refer to themselves as "Muslims" have a religious obligation to Islam 100%, nothing less. Those "Muslims" who either fail to, or refuse to engage in Jihad to spread Islam throughout the world are apostates, not "moderate" as the term is socially defined. Islam and Sharia law does not deal equitably with non-believers. Non-believers may not act as witnesses in any legal proceeding involving Muslims. A Muslim woman may not marry a non-believer. Non-believers, in Islamic countries, are treated as inferior beings relative to Muslims. In Sharia law there are distinctly separate laws dealing specifically with non-believers. My family, friends and I left Islam because of the way so many Muslims are pushing their beliefs on society and wanting to change to Sharia law or interfering in the lives of others by praying in the streets, covering faces which is not safe for the rest of us, we need to be able to identify people and because Islam teaches they are the only real faith. The west welcomes Muslims but Muslim countries are not so welcoming to non Muslims, in fact they oppress or hurt them. We dont want to be a part of such a hateful religion and Muslims are waking up. If Muslims cant speak out against al qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hizbollah and others like them, then in fact they appear to support them or are indifferent to them or they fear them and then complain when the other countries do something to stop their terrorism. Until you weed out your terrorists and interfere in noraml laws and living of other countries there will be more of them not wanting to allow immigration of Muslims. Truthfully, I think this is best way for Muslims to stay where they are in Muslim countries, because Islam is a culture and a way of life not just a religion(even Muslims say this), thus your laws and beliefs do not fit in other countries who think everyone is equal and where everyone else obeys the laws of the country. If you leave Islam you are punished, families murder their own, Islam using taqiyya(lies to obtain what you need in Islam), so how can anyone trust many Muslims? I care about you as a person, but I dont believe this religion accepts others, so I dont think others should accept it in democratic countries. People around the world need to be kind to Muslims but I think they should reduce the percentage they allow in because in truth, why take a chance on a religion which shows violence in its teachings.
http://treasureandheaven.blogspot.com/
powerful words!<img src="http://tinyurl.com/c7l9ck6" width="1">
"–WHAT PROPHET DID WAS VERY NORMAL AT HIS TIME AND PLACE–"
Absolute falsehood. Women were successful entrepreneurs and community leaders before and during the advent of Muhammad. He was the one who stopped it and reversed the trend which led to women being made prisoners. You have ignored the fact that Khadijah was a successful merchant having inherited the trade from her previous husbands. It was her success which brought her in contact with Muhammad. Having succeeded in ruining the fortune the woman had built up over the years and in a bid to protect his young wives from the covetous eyes of his followers, Muhammad concocted his 'revelation' that women were only meant for the home. He did not meet them" doing time" at home. This was clearly his invention. Hitler would copy and implement the same policy in his third reich. Where they are free, women excel just as much as their male counterparts.
Are you reading for your MA to to do time at home?
What I posted shows that those who make up the janjaweed are Arabs who are racially different from the Darfuri victims of the genocide.
On this Eric Reeves, writing in 'The Sudan Tribune' under the caption "Genocide in Darfur: How the Horror Began: says :"THE NATIONAL ISLAMIC FRONT(NIF) IS ESSENTIALLY UNCHANGED SINCE IT SEIZED POWER FROM A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVT. IN A 1989 MILITARY COUP—-ANIMATED BY A RADICAL ISLAMISM AND A SENSE OF ARAB RACIAL SUPERIORITY, THE MOVEMENT ENGAGED IN GENOCIDE ALMOST FROM THE TIME ITS SEIZED POWER–"
Within 29 months of the NIF taking over power, about 400,000 Darfuris had been killed or died of starvation and diseases. While 3.9 million were internally displaced. Today those figures are much higher.
It is the NIF that arms the janjaweed and unleash them on the people of Darfur.
You know, humans have tendency to argue. When a woman stays at home, and husband works, people will say the woman is stupid, weak, and less burdened. (Burdened by "what"/"which"?). When a woman works outside, people will say the husband is stupid, weak, and less burdened. When both wife and husband work outside, people will say they are careless toward children. When the wife husband and the children work outside, people will say they are a very poor pathetic family. When wife husband and children dont work and all stay at home, people will say they are shameless, suicidal and dumb. Remember story of nasrudin with his dad when he was little? One day they went to a place with a donkey. That time was so hot and the way still long. The father is old enough for such trip so he decided to ride the donkey. When they were passing by, people who saw commented, "look at that man. How heartless and selfish he is. Its a hot weather, but hes riding a donkey alone and he let his son walk by feet. What kind of father is he?" The man heard their comment. Then he decided to walk by feet and let his son to ride the donkey and continue the trip. When they were passing by, people who saw commented, "look at that son. His father is old enough and the weather is very hot. What kind of son is he? What a bad son." Hearing the comment, then the son and the father decided to walk by feet and continue walking. When they were passing by, people who saw commented, "look at those dummies. The weather is hot and it seems they are having a long trip but there is a donkey to ride but none using it. So stupid. Ha ha ha…" Hearing the comment then they decided to ride the donkey together. When they were passing by, people who saw commented, " look at those stupid father and son. Its a hot weather and it seems that they are having a long trip. They are riding the poor donkey together. What kind of humans are they?" And then after hearing such comments nasrudin concluded that humans always try to argue and comment, or protest. After that he swore that whatever right things he does, he wont get bothered by others comments or protests.See how hypocritical u are by at first saying, women stay at home cos men are selfish for prisoning them. And then when facts come that women work outside as slaves to seek money, but women who stay at home have democracy in house, by taking care and manage house husband and kids, you say these are burdens, when fact shows that skilled learned, religious sincere smart women do these and see these all not as burdens but heaven in family life, you say the women themselves are burdens. When both parents work outside, the kids get abandoned, even people they trust still could betray the trust, and bad things already happened to the kids, then whos to be blamed next? Get over it. God created things in harmony. You seem like almost a racist, who want to live in world where all people with same hair and same skin color like yours. Even music needs harmony, not monoton. Food is also various with different taste and functions. If you insist women to work outside, then me as feminist will insist you to be pregnant and get the baby out after 9 months with real baby size, made from blood flesh and bones, not sperms. How about that?
"WANT"how many creatures in this world? Do you know what they want? Did you know that the sea is always angry everyday and asks gods permission to let come to land to punish humans for their zhalimness toward each other also forgot their creator also other creations? But what did god say? Be patient. Give more time for repentance. If the sea could be that mad, how about the moon, the starts, and even the sun? Cant they be mad? Dont they have something they want? They do "WANT" to punish us humans. They want to hit us to destroy us. But they are now still in orbit. They still follow the rules and doing their roles. So do you really think good women want to be selfish? No. A mother is naturally set up to do such stuff, when a woman is pregnant and then deliver a baby, her body will change, include the hormones and emotions. They have tendency to do their tasks as mother better than father or others. And if they do these SINCERELY and with KNOWLEDGES, having a family isnt a burden for them, but a heaven. Now if ur women feel the opposite thats cos such thing already passed from previous generation. How to stop it? Things will get worse generation after generation.
Well as demsci said women wearing burqa/veil and staying at home, are not normal in his eyes for his zaman and place, but in fact women wearing decent clothes and veil plus staying home were verrrrry normal at zaman before we were born. What is normal now can look weird in future too. What prophet did was very normal at his time and place. So what ur doing now and what sinas doing now could look not normal at another time and another place.
The Brits are smart Christians, and they conquered and plundered India in a subtle way. Indians were duped … and still are. The British queen is proudly displaying on her crown a diamond the Brits stole from the Indians. And the Indians could not, cannot and will not be able to claim the diamond back.
Sadly enough, thousands of Indians are proudly displaying their British passports. They are awed by the thieves and decided to be the subjects of the kingdom of the thieves. I hope I am wrong, and the Indian will prove to be a better nation than the Brits, at least ethically.
Hindu is a British creation to unite the Indian mosaic of races, cultures, gods, languages in order to counterbalance the strong Muslim government at the time. The British was the cancer, the Indians have removed it and survived but still suffering from the side effects.
@cchuckc:
You didn't touch upon "God and My Right" is a sort of guiding value for the Brits" … Please tell me if this is true.
Let's do it one by one.
You talked about " … Darfur who are hunted down like wild animals because of the color of their skin … "
I asked you "How different is the color of the skin of the conflicting people in Darfur?" and you came up with this answer:
"JANJAWEED FORMED FROM THE ARABIC WORDS FOR "MAN", "GUN" AND "HORSE"–USING THE UN DEFINITION, THE JANJAWEED COMPRISED SUDANESE ARAB TRIBES THE CORE OF WHOM ARE FROM THE ABBALA(CAMEL HERDER) BACKGROUND WITH SIGNIFICANT LAMBO RECRUITMENT FROM BAGGARA(CATTLE HERDER) PEOPLE-.
"THE RIZEIGAT ARE A MUSLIM AND ARAB TRIBE–DIVIDED INTO THE ABBALA(CAMEL HERDING RIZEIGAT, WHO LIVE IN THE NORTHERN DARFUR–AND SPEAK CHADIAN ARABIC-)-"
IDEOLOGY: ARAB ETHNIC NATIONALISM. "
This is not an answer to my question.
@ Guest
You have noble intentions of educating Muslim mass ,but that would change their attitude,i doubt .Those who were the cause of 9/11 were literate people.I want the world not impart quality teaching to these morons,that would be the greatest tragedy of humanity. You know who was the mastermind and ring leader of Kenyan Mall massacre ,she is a British lady (former name samantha ) married to a Muslim terrorist ,who was killed by British forces .She is Known as "White Widow" in Al Khaida world.Tell me was she illiterate,no it is your holy book which has corrupted a noble soul into an venomous snake.
@Guest
How many time you think convincing needed of real Islam to those terrorist .The fault lay's in the Book ,unless you lot discard that book and come out of that cult Islam ,peace is distant reality. Everything happens for the sake of good ,now your people have initiated the religious war ,certainly infidels will conclude it .
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Ok. Here is one on Dafur in Wikipedia:"JANJAWEED FORMED FROM THE ARABIC WORDS FOR "MAN", "GUN" AND "HORSE"–USING THE UN DEFINITION, THE JANJAWEED COMPRISED SUDANESE ARAB TRIBES THE CORE OF WHOM ARE FROM THE ABBALA(CAMEL HERDER) BACKGROUND WITH SIGNIFICANT LAMBO RECRUITMENT FROM BAGGARA(CATTLE HERDER) PEOPLE-.
"THE RIZEIGAT ARE A MUSLIM AND ARAB TRIBE–DIVIDED INTO THE ABBALA(CAMEL HERDING RIZEIGAT, WHO LIVE IN THE NORTHERN DARFUR–AND SPEAK CHADIAN ARABIC-)-"
IDEOLOGY: ARAB ETHNIC NATIONALISM.
The Janjaweed is the Arab militia formed by the Arab Sudanese govt to kill the Darfur people.
MAURITANIA
"–WHILE SLAVERY IN MOST PARTS OF THE WORLD IS A THING OF THE PAST, MAURITANIA REMAINS AN EXCEPTION–BLACKS CAN BE KILLED 'PERFECTLY WITHOUT BEING ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYONE, WITHOUT HAVING TO APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE'–LIGHT SKINNED MAURITANIANS, KNOWN AS ARABS, HAVE CONTINUED IN AN ABSURD TRADITION THAT PENALIZES THE BLACK MAJORITY—RACISM IS ALMOST A BEDROCK OF THE MAURITANIAN ARAB CULTURE–" By Abdo Wone, in 'The African Report', Monday, 25 March, 2013.
@knowTheEnemy:
The burden is certainly upon me and my Muslim brethren to tell other Muslims to really benefit from correct interpretation of the Holy Book. Attacking innocent people in a mall is not justified at all.
We in the Islamic world need to educate our people more. Don't you know there were health workers killed when they were vaccinating children because they thought the vaccine would sterilize Muslims and reduce Muslim population in the world? This is really outrageous. Many people, Muslims and non-Muslims, are busy addressing this. They work in villages and in remote areas risking their precious lives.
The least I would expect from people like you is to cooperate by not igniting the fire of anger — this will jeopardize the work of those dedicated people trying to bring uneducated Muslim masses to the light of modern day.
//Have you read the various write ups on Darfur and Mauritania//
No.
Have you read the various write ups on Darfur and Mauritania where every indication is that the descendants of the Arab invaders are subjugating the people of Darfur who are Nubians while the Arabs in Mauritania are enslaving the indigenous Africans in that country?
["Was a legitimate, internationally recognized, Muslim authority consulted by the bombers before they bombed the Nairobi mall?"]
I don't know, but way too many Muslims are killing, bombing, and committing other atrocities and they openly say they do this for Islam and Allah. They do it in groups which means other group members believe the same things. Do none of them consult "authorities"?
["Question is whether these people bombed the mall just for the sake of bombing and killing people, or whether they had reasons for doing it?"]
It is Muslims like yourself who have to find answers to those questions! You are the one who have to convince them to consult authorities, just as you convince non-Muslim leaders and media that anyone talking against Islam is a 'Islamophobe' and is "provoking anger"!
BTW what reason justifies attacking people shopping at malls? What reason justifies mass-killing Christians in Pakistan especially when they are already a tiny minority of the population?
["….with due respect to you, I cannot entertain any suggestion that the Quran endorses unjust killing."]
Please tell that to the jihadis! They are the ones who kill on a daily basis and explicitly claim that they do this for the sake of Islam.
@Guest,
:-). You had raised a question, I have supplied the answer. If you want to rebut it then the proof of burden shifts to you. If you are so interested why don't you pick up the books I have mentioned and try to punch holes through the arguments put forth by Pran Nath and Moreland or show figures from another source that you think are correct? Or you may try to rebut the conclusion drawn by me by actually list down Muslim invasions and give us an alternate figure? Have you done any of these, No, but you say you are curious!!
@knowTheEnemy:
Part of QS 3:7 is: " … And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding." The last sentence is very important — it is instructing us to consult people of understanding, and this means tafsir / interpretation.
There are people among Muslims who, like you do, believe that there should be no interpretation of the Quran. But can they strike the neck of non-Muslims for no reason whenever and wherever they meet them? Just because the Quran says so?
Please note that there is another verse which instructs Muslims to follow Allah, Rasulullah and "ulil amri min kum", i.e. the authority among you. Was a legitimate, internationally recognized, Muslim authority consulted by the bombers before they bombed the Nairobi mall? I am sure the answer is a negative.
Question is whether these people bombed the mall just for the sake of bombing and killing people, or whether they had reasons for doing it?
I regret, I cry for the innocent victims. In the same breath, let us also investigate why it happened in the first place. In the mean time, with due respect to you, I cannot entertain any suggestion that the Quran endorses unjust killing.
@cchuckc:
//1. It is estimated that the world population doubled between 900 AD and 1300 AD. //
From which number to which number? In which part of the world did it grow mostly?
//2. Pran Nath, in the book, Economic conditions of Ancient India, estimates that India population must have been between 100 and 140 million in 300 BC (when Alexander invaded). //
How did he arrive at these numbers?
//3. W.H. Moreland estimated that the population of India in 1600 AD was around 100 million. //
How did he arrive at this number?
I am also curious. I will highly appreciate it if you can explain to me which Muslim invasions which happened in which year killed how many people in which part of India.
// … because of the color of their skin …//
How different is the color of the skin of the conflicting people in Darfur?
@Guest,
//You only took part of the verse, and left out another which alludes to the affection of the Christian toward Muslims.//
5:72, 5:73 takes care of that. And then there is 5:51 (Yusuf Ali)
O ye who believe!
Take not the Jews
And the Christians
For your friends and protectors:
They are but friends and protectors)
To each other. And he
Amongst you that turns to them
(For friendship) is of them.
Verily God guideth not
A people unjust.
@Guest,
//You did not want to quote Lal because you have not understood his methodology.//
Cherry picking again. I primarily didn't want to quote him because his work is controversial because he has been painted saffron. There is his book and there are reasons quoted by him for coming to those figures. I have read it and haven't understood it well. So I made an honest confession. It doesn't mean the methodology and historical markers used were wrong or the conclusion was.
I therefore felt it right to give an independent point of view. Now Nath and Moreland. I haven't made any speculation or guesses in quoting them. Or are you saying I have quoted them wrongly? Moreland's book is named "India at the death of Akbar", I have read it and seemed logical to me (thats why I took 2 days to answer you), Nath's book I haven't read. You are employing "Shoot the Messenger" fallacy here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot_the_messenger
My three points in coming to the conclusion remains intact. Those are made by respected experts of their fields and the conclusion is India's population were found to be same in 3rd century BC and in 1600 AD. This defies logic unless we have a mass scale population extermination over a long period of time. This is a tell tale evidence against Muslim aggression, since didn't face natural calamities in the league of the Black Death that manifested itself in Europe, for example.
I hope Ali Sina explains the context here, but you are right Sura 5:82 does say that. For some reason however, lots of Muslims don't seem to have seen this part of the ayat. The Muslims who regularly attack Christians in Egypt, Iraq, and Syria have not seen this part of the ayat. The Mullah in the video that I mentioned in my above post doesn't seem to know it either. Those who attacked the Christian church in Peshawar today, killing over 75 people, do not seem to know it either. This mullah says a Muslim man must hate his non-Muslim wife. He gives the example of a man married to a Christian woman, and clearly says that the husband "must show her that he hates her because of her religion", and he quotes suras 58:22 and 5:51. The examples are countless!
And it seems the so called 'good' Muslims have not seen it either, because they never strongly object to the Mullahs and terrorists who attack Christians. How can all these people so easily ignore this nice sounding part of 5:82?
Maybe it is because they have read the very next verse, Sura 5:83 which says-
"And when they (who call themselves Christians) listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognised. They say: "Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses." [Dr. Mohsin translation]
Let's revisit the second part of 5:82-
"….. and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say: "We are Christians:" because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant." [Yusuf Ali]
The Sura does not require Muslims to love Christians. It only says that Christians love Muslims (Here Quran conflicts with ayat 51 in the same chapter). So 5:83 is saying that Muslims are to take advantage of Christians' humbleness and call them to Islam! It does NOT say to love them back because of their humbleness.
Aryan Hindu did not use it in that context. He said :"THERE WAS NO ARYAN INVASION. HINDUS ARE ARYANS–". But the Concise English Dictionary says this of "Aryans" :"A MEMBER OF A PEOPLE SPEAKING AN INDO-EUROPEAN LANGUAGE WHO INVADED NORTHERN INDIA IN THE 2ND MILLENNIUM BC."
Aryan Hindu meant the word in the second sense and his assertion has been debunked by the dictionary.
Those Muslims are "productive members of humanity" despite Islam, not because of it! They cherry-pick the nice verses from Quran and go to great pains to interpret the violence filled and hateful verses to mean something other than what is written.
By calling themselves 'Muslims', they only increase the zeal of devout Muslims, that is, the extremists! How do they do that? Because when the extremists learn things like "there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and the number is growing", they think Islam really is a true religion and start practicing it even more fervently. The extremists don't cherry pick verses. Sura 3:7 says Quran should not be 'interpreted'; it should be accepted exactly as written. And the devout Muslims do exactly that!
Result: Horror and turmoil somewhere in the world every day caused by devout Muslims! Today a Church was bombed in Pakistan and over 75 people died. The Christians are not violent people. The only reason why devout Muslims hate and kill Christians (and other non-believers) is because Islam commands them to do so! Yesterday, the shopping mall in Kenya was attacked, 65 people are dead, and the jihadis are still holding hostages!
Ali Sina made this website so that good people who think they are 'Muslims', can see that they have been fooled, and that their belief in Islam is only adding to the turmoil caused by the true Muslims.
@Guest,
//Did I ever say it belonged to the Muslim in the first place? //
No you didn't. You asked whether it belonged to the Sikhs in the first place. I gave you an answer.
//And why did you use the word "recover" for the Sikh as if the diamond was taken from them in the first place and now they were recovering it. //
This is either your poor understanding or you are merely playing with words here. When we say "The police recovered guns from the criminals", do we necessarily mean that the criminals first snatched/robbed it from the police? Secondly I don't understand why you object. Since you were positing Sikh empire as a representation of India (at least a part of it anyway), and the muslim invaders (Nadir Shah and then it fell in the hand of Ahmad Durrani) were aliens, then this is off-course a recovery, in the sense you took the word, of an Indian artifact by an Indian contingent from an alien force.
//Here's what the Indian said//
Fine. If that is so, so be it. It proves nothing. It is not the most important things to settle between the two governments. If it were Indian government would have pushed far more since 1947. Anyway, it is neither here nor there. As far as I understand it was part of a war reparation, no matter what the Indian government claims, I respect there sentiment, but the legal case is quite weak. Its not a loot, or a loot only from a certain emotional perspective. I will be very glad if the Indian government can 'recover' it. I support the Indian Government in this case.
//If it was a bargain, the Indian Government would not have said that it had//
The Treaty of Lahore is there to be seen and read. It is an emotional issue for the Indians as indeed for many other erstwhile colonies (with similar claims), but still this doesn't constitute an example of 'loot'. I have explained it post after post that this doesn't compare with the plunder by Ghauri, Ghaznavi etc. You just want to obscure that point.
//A discussion on Koh-e-Noor gives perspective to our conversation.//
I fail to see how. The conversation was about how the Muslims looted and plundered, killing millions and torching religious institutions of the 'infidels' and how you stated that this was under "Allah's Guidance" and helped establish "the torch of Islamic civilization". It will be much appreciated if you can tell us how the history of Kohinoor and whether it belonged to the Sikhs 'in the first place' helps taking forward that particular thread of conversation.
@cchuckc:
Too much speculation. Too much guesses. You did not want to quote Lal because you have not understood his methodology. Did you study the methodology employed by Moreland? What methodology was used by Nath?
@knowTheEnemy:
//They do this because the real reason for having enmity and wars against non-Muslims are the commands of Quran and Muhammad.
"Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and Al-Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolators and disbelievers, etc.)." [Al-Qur'an 5:82] //
You only took part of the verse, and left out another which alludes to the affection of the Christian toward Muslims. You are advised to read the Quran with explanation by people of knowledge, who can provide you with history of the verse (i.e. asbal al nuzul). Again, context is important.
@know TheEnemy:
//So what am I ignorant about?//
You are ignorant that millions of Muslim are productive members of the humanity contributing continuously to the betterment of human lives. And they are doing it while reciting the Quran and referring to the Quran as their life guide. They continue studying the Quran and learning from it.
@cchuckc:
//Neither did it belong to the muslims 'in the first place'//
Did I ever say it belonged to the Muslim in the first place? Never. I just asked you whether the diamond belonged to the Sikh in the first place. And why did you use the word "recover" for the Sikh as if the diamond was taken from them in the first place and now they were recovering it.
//If you are an Indian you may consider it a loot depending on how much value you attach to a particular incidence or event, in this case, the parting of the Kohinoor by the Sikhs. //
Here's what the Indian said: "The Indian government has a legitimate claim on the diamond. We hope to resolve this issue as soon as possible," a spokesman for the Indian High Commission has said. British officials are, however, firm that it must remain in Britain. Check it here: "http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2002-12-29/india/27298165_1_diamond-kohinoor-prince-charles
Another one: // In an interview to The Independent, Mr. Sengupta had said, “As efforts so far to reclaim stolen treasures have proved futile, UNESCO support is required … " //  ;http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/cant-return-kohinoor-diamond-to-india-britain/article446526.ece
Sengupta was an Indian Government official and he used the word "stolen."
If it was a bargain, the Indian Government would not have said that it had " … a legitimate claim on the diamond .." It was another way of saying that the agreement was illegal. The Brits just wanted to be seen doing things in a legitimate way … it is legal in form, but not in substance. It was a bargain in form, but a loot in substance.
//"We don't have to discuss the history of Kohinoor you know!!"//
A discussion on Koh-e-Noor gives perspective to our conversation. It has a far reaching implication on us when we judge actors of history.
@hateislam
"Arya" is a sanskirt word which means "noble person". Word Arya has nothing to with Hindu, Muslim and christian. In Sanskrit period/Vedic age philosopher, sages, scientist a.k.a Rishi used to call Arya. Anyone who is engaged for service of humanity and seek happiness for all is "Arya". And group of Aryas (Noble persons) called Aryan.
"-HINDUS ARE ARYANS–"
So was Hitler.
dodo at least existed sometimes in past…Allah never exited. Allah is even more dead than dodo.
Muslim are as much integral to India as cancer to Humans.
Brits are a nationality ,Muslims are a belief group. A Brit cannot be held responsible for being Brit but a Muslims can be .
There was no Aryan Invasion. Hindus are Aryans. The 2 Persian invasions into India failed utterly. Alexander the barbarian scratched India's Northern border and run away. Islam and Brits are the only 2 groups which conquered India. Brits are gone and Islam will follow.
Muslims were far more evil than the British. There is no doubt about that.
Islam looted Humanity out of human
When we read the article on Sunniforum we see this:
//"answer by Sheikh Muhammad Ali Al-Hanooti"
3. The Hadith you referred to is authentic, the Prophet (SAAWS) talks about women not as a gender or a race or ethnic. He talks about sinful people who deserve what they will have of destiny. If a man does the same, he will have the same Hell. This is the only way you can interpret the Hadith.
4. The Prophet (SAAWS) has explained what he says of shortage of deen which is different from your interpretation or translation of deen. He says, you are less commended to practice the deen, because of menstruation. When he talks about lack of intellect, he does not talk about potential of brain or capacity of talent or skill. A woman is overloaded by being a mother or a babysitter or pregnant. All these carriers are around the clock, because of what she is, she is always likely to forget more than a man who is devoted to one career only. Allah is merciful, he forgives her and makes it easy for her when she is not fully responsible to give a full testimony as a witness. Nothing of that is defaming a woman, there is not a law that discriminates a woman to put her down.''//
This, in the 21st urban century, does not get Islam off the hook! At best this is a very oldfashioned and totally obsolete story containing a basis for human law or behavior. Women do not need to be and do not WANT to be "overloaded" with pregnancy and child-raising any more.
And if the Sheikh says is what Mohammed wanted to convey, Mohammed expressed himself or Allah very clumsyly, unclear, ambiguous. Or some other human, claiming Mohammed said this in this way, did.
Only because Muslimahs love Islam they put up with this highly faulty communication; either meant derogatory and oppressing of women or expressed so clumsily that it can easily be misused by men in power over women and ridiculed by outsiders (look; Muslimahs follow a man who thought they were dumber or less responsible/ reliable than men).
And how hypocritical to say that women are less burdened than men by not being as responsible as witness as men. While of course they at the same time are described as less responsible and reliable, and so made less influential than men, in fact subservient to men.
This (still) is against equality before the law and maximum possible autonomy of the individual (all his or her life) in Democratic law and custom!!!
@Narcole
Some practical anecdote didn't required any meaning to be carved out to satisfy our way of thinking .Mohammed married Ayesha at 6 and fornicated at 9 this is practical aspect no one can deny , such people are called "Pedophile". If you say Mohammed didn't marry Ayesha at 6 while he was old man and, prove your claim then the audience will consider as to the claims of Mr Sina ,till then don't come here with dildos of Mohammed ,all are clairvoyant people here.
It clearly explains wrong translation. using wrong words for certain meaning which has another meaning in other persons, but same meaning to some people.
I never said any sentence using women deficiency with my own sentece. Cos i knew theres trap in those words 😉 btw did u read this article..i was too busy to give this link http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?7141-Hadi...
Spread of "Islam"? In the world? By urinating on the wall guys?_.Mr chuck you know i care about you ^^
@narcole1919721,
//The spread of what? Where?//
You have poor eyesight or what? Spread of Islam, in the world.
//Mr chuck do you wanna be no.2 or stay as no.3?//
Islamists don't care much about the desires and wants of infidels.
@Demsci,
Thanks. The point is exactly as you say that the Westerners aren't awfully proud of the invasions that they perpetuated but when you point to similar, in fact much more repugnant, invasions by the Islamist regimes, to a muslim, s/he looks the other way and resorts to "You too" (Tu Quoque) fallacy. The character of these invasions were markedly different. @Guest has a strong feeling for the British 'looting' Kohinoor, but (s)he should have a far greater poignant feelings about Timur, Babur, Ghori, Mehmud of Ghaznavi etc.
Chuck, I am simply much interested, very glad and impressed and grateful you defended, say, Western past history in comparison to Muslim past history concerning India's past in such a knowledgeable, detailed, logical way.
As we know Western past was blemished, and we are prepared to criticize it too. But to one-sidedly condemn it without comparing it with the rest of history and especially with Islamic responsibilities is to me very unjust and thus very painful, frustrating and angering. You countered this! Well done and thank you!
["I never said im deficient in intelligence."]
Muhammad was the one who said that. But it is good that you do not agree with him because he was WRONG for calling women deficient in intelligence or religion!
Mr chuck do you wanna be no.2 or stay as no.3? 🙂
The spread of what? Where? O.o
I never said im deficient in intelligence. It seems you have problems understanding grammar too. I can point out ur errors in understanding grammars too 🙂
Omg suuzhon. Are you taught to always suu zhon toward people ? :'' mean…i was worried..*sobs*
@Guest
//When did the last conquest take place? How many people were living in India during the conquest? //
I understand that there are obvious difficulties in interpolating backwards for pre-census population figures. Any estimate of population figures is bound to suffer from errors. In a very controversial book noted historian K.S. Lal suggests that the population of India dipped from 200 million in 1000 AD to 170 million in 1525 AD. He thus says that between 60-80 million Indians perished due to these invasions. But I will not quote this as a source since I haven't understood the methodology used and the author is known to be pro RSS for whatever reason.
So I will try to quote some non-controversial sources:
1. It is estimated that the world population doubled between 900 AD and 1300 AD.
2. Pran Nath, in the book, Economic conditions of Ancient India, estimates that India population must have been between 100 and 140 million in 300 BC (when Alexander invaded).
3. W.H. Moreland estimated that the population of India in 1600 AD was around 100 million.
India in its time did suffer a lot of epidemics etc, but it still didn't face a calamity of the size of Black Death for example. One would have expected the population figures for India to match those of the world. But we see an almost steady population for about 1900 years. How do we explain this? The only possible explanation is that a mass scale extermination spread over a few hundred years possibly from a common cause. Now if we look back into India's history the only such period would be between 900 AD and 1500 AD when there was a wave of Islamic invaders whose mission was not only to loot and plunder but kill as many infidels they wanted and rape women and enslave whoever they could. There is a mountain called Hindukush which is possibly so named because Hindus used to die while crossing it (when the slaves were made to trek across it in harsh weather).
Did 80 million perish? I don't know. But the figure could be even higher or somewhere there.
Neither can you deny that India has been the targets of competing powers coming from its West and North, even before the 13th century.//
Yes, I don't. And I didn't.
//There were Greek invasion, Persian invasion, Aryan invasion, and other invasions including those of Muslims and Europeans.//
Greek Invasion was fueled by a desire to show off personal excellence by Alexander. The remnants of the invasion were some of the Satraps who mostly remained at the Valhika (Western exteriors of Punjab). It never threatened India per se. I am yet to find any reports of mass scale murder, loot and plunder, enslavement, grounding of monasteries and temples etc. Takshila for example remained intact and Buddhism thrived in the region.
The Persian invasion? I guess you mean the Achaemenid intrusion in the Indus Valley. India did have few attacks by the Persian, Scythians and Parthians. None of these seriously threatened the whole of India. And again I find no reports of enslavement of subjects, or mass cale murder of citizens. Same is true for the invasions and intrusions by the Huns, Mongols etc before the Islamic invasions.
The Aryan Invasion?? There is no evidence that there was one. In fact the proponents (at least most) of AIT also agree that there were none. What they say that there were migrations and settlements flowing from the North-West and spread toward the South and East of India. And this is a very controversial topic given the lack of evidence for it and some evidences (i.e. genetic analysis) against it.
The Europeans. They came as traders and there motivation was to extract what they could. The French, Dutch and Portugese never controlled much. Other than the Goa Inquisition we can't hold them responsible of any mass scale human devaluation. Neither can we hold that allegation against the British, Jalianwala Bag Massacre not withstanding.
//All these invasions have both impoverished and enriched India. //
I agree with you here but I don't think enriching India was a motivation behind these invasions.
// he ignored the plight of millions of Indians, or at least the Punjabis, under the British plundering rule. He said it as if the Koh-e-Noor was just a piece of jewellery. I have to emphasize here that the Koh-e-Noor is the symbol of sovereignty, of honor, and of the nation's dignity. So, any belittling statement can be considered an insult.//
I don't know. I don't think many Indians today ascribe a great sense of pride in acquiring the Kohinoor. But from @ihateislam's perspective I can understand if he doesn't value it more than a piece of jewellery.
//Remember, the Amritsar massacre also happened in the Punjab, and it was considered to be an Indian massacre.//
You are trying to join two events 70 years apart. The Jalianwala Bag Massacre wasn't a direct fall out of the Anglo Sikh wars. Neither did Dyer try to find motivation from the acts of Lord Dalhousie in the Anglo Sikh wars.
//I don't forget the partition of 1947. But the partition was decided by the people of India.//
I am sorry but you may want to revisit the history books again or may be you are reading a very different set of books. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India#1…
When you say 'people of India', you can't discount the 300 million non-muslims who never wanted to partition India (and a huge number of like-minded Muslims too I hasten to add).
//I would refer you to read a novel by Khuswant Singh "Train to Pakistan" which gives a good story of the Partition.//
Thanks. I have read it. But the purpose is lost on me in the present context.
// … in the bargain … What a wonderful choice of word. In a previous post you generously considered it (in a way was) a loot. Now it is a bargain … //
This particular fallacy is called 'Cherry Picking'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_(fall…
A war treaty is a bargain that the two warring parties agree to.
I gave you the dictionary definition of 'loot'. War reparations may or may not be considered a loot depending on the perspective of the subject. If you are an Indian you may consider it a loot depending on how much value you attach to a particular incidence or event, in this case, the parting of the Kohinoor by the Sikhs. To all other persons this, in itself, may have been an insignificant event anyway and by definition not a loot. Loot is what Mehmud of Ghaznavi, Ghori et al did in attack after attacks on India, ravaging its monuments and killing innocent citizens. The positive side of these attacks? Today Pakistan has developed Ballistic Missiles called Ghaznavi and Ghauri.
//Tell me how Ranjit Singh recovered the Koh-e-Noor from the Muslims? Did the diamond belong to Ranjit Singh in the first place? //
Neither did it belong to the muslims 'in the first place'. We don't have to discuss the history of Kohinoor you know!!
@Guest,
//Well, I presume they carried and wore the coat of arms wherever they went to invade other countries//
They might have. That is neither here nor there. As I said it is a kind of misplaced Tu Quoque that you are trying to throw at us. This is very different from how Al utbi writes about that swine Mehmood's invasion of India. Quoting from tarikh Yamini of Al Utbi: "…He vowed every year he will undertake a holy war against Hind".. and after the invasion: "God also bestowed upon his friends such an amount of booty as was beyond all bounds and calculation, including 500000 slave, beautiful men and women".
I have a heart that is why I am crying for the unfortunate people of Darfur who are hunted down like wild animals because of the color of their skin. Given a choice between sowing cotton for the " unfair trade practices of the so-called developed world" and living in refugee camps with no hope for the future, it is certain that they will prefer the former. Until two years ago the fate of Darfur also plagued South Sudan. There are slaves still in Mauritania whose crime is the color of their skin and who would willingly grab the opportunity to live freely and engage in trade imbalances.
The history I have read shows that the muhammadans caused more havoc in India than progress. They destroyed the university of Nalanda built in 5 BC and other institutions of advance learning. In their places they set up madarassas for their children. Even secularist Nehru had to admit that:"THE MUSLIMS WHO CAME TO INDIA FROM OUTSIDE BROUGHT NO NEW TECHNIQUE OR ECONOMIC OR POLITICAL STRUCTURE. IN SPITE OF A RELIGIOUS BELIEF IN THE BROTHERHOOD OF ISLAM, THEY WERE CLASS BOUND AND FEUDAL IN OUTLOOK. IN TECHNIQUE AND IN THE METHODS OF PRODUCTION AND INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATION, THEY WERE INFERIOR TO WHAT PREVAILED IN INDIA–'
He would go on to say that the muhammadan presence made the caste system which still had element of flexibility in it more rigid by impoverishing the Indian populace,
Alberuni, who was captured in Persia and brought to India wrote:"MAHMUD UTTERLY RUINED THE PROSPERITY OF THE COUNTRY–HINDU SCIENCE HAVE RETIRED FAR FROM THOSE PARTS OF THE COUNTRY CONQUERED BY US, AND HAVE FLED TO PLACES WHICH OUR HANDS CANNOT YET REACH".
@Guest,
//However, I am sure there are many Muslims who can restore her/his faith, if s/he has the will to do it. But s/he does not want to consult other people. S/he even advises people against consulting the Ulamas. This is not a sign of openness, nor is it a sign of open-mindedness. //
How do you know (s)he didn't? This not open-mindedness from your side. About not taking advice from Ullemas, well, I don't see it in the letter posted above. Is it another assumption from you (based your self-defined logical platform)? Also the person is claiming that s/he runs a school of Koranic teaching, I would assume such a person to know and understand a thing or two about how Ullemas work. If there is a suggestion(which I didn't find in the letter) not to consult Ullemas it may be based on these personal experiences.
@narcole1919721,
//Yeah..if a bad moslem urinating on the wall which is haram in islam, these people will accuse this is from islam.//
Why can't you directly say that @jussay is a bad muslim:-) In fact the spread of Islam was possible only because of such 'bad muslims'.
This Ananth Murthy is the stooge of Congress .He had enjoyed various academic post under congress patronage .He is eying for Bharath Ratna ,that could be fulfilled with congresses blessings .Whole of India knew his capacity/caliber. Such waste people don't required in India, you can take them to any Islamic country.That great Amarthya Sen had written all of Rahul Gandhi's exam papers ,he is another kind of stooge of this dieing congress.
["You don't want to know, and this leads you to ignorance. You do not have the desire to know the other side better."]
A wise man, I believe it was Jesus, said "You shall know the tree by its fruits."
Another one said "The proof is in the pudding."
I have seen how Muslims live! I hear about their doings every day. Unfortunately, almost all of what they do is either backed by the Islam, or the root cause can be found in Islam. I read your posts and I see a person who does not care about what is going on in the Islamic world. You are more worried about what we think and say about Muhammad, than about why there is so much turmoil in the Muslim world.
So what am I ignorant about? Tell me in brief your solution to reducing the turmoil in the Muslim world!
—————–
["Sorry, I never referred to the moderates. You are putting words in my mouth."]
I said 'moderates' because in the west the Islam-apologists use this word for all the supposedly non-radical Muslims. So you believe 'moderates' is an incorrect word. Go ahead and tell us the correct term for the Muslims who are nowhere to be seen to oppose the terrorists!
——————
["//For whatever reason, their evil actions do not "provoke anger" in you! // This is again … wrong.
So, this is how you operate."]
Is it wrong? What is the truth then? You stay unbothered, or it does "provoke anger" in you? And what do you do about it?
—————–
["Say it differently: the US used the ISI to groom Taliban. A bit more differently: the US used Muslims to fight the Russian in Afghanistan."]
The US bribed the ISI and other Pakistan elites, and the ISI used the gullible pathans to make Taliban.
————————–
["I don't know the rhetoric used by the ISI to convince the Taliban to fight the Russian. I guess the ISI would refer to the Russians being communist and kafir and they were in Afghanistan colonizing the country. Presumably the gullible Afghans just swallowed it. They didn't know that the US, which was kafir, was behind all these things."]
Yes you do know! Don't play dumb here. You do know what Taliban means- Students. Students of what? Students of Islam. They spend their entire life studying Islam and living by Islam! And who put them solidly on the path to study Islam and live by Islam? The ISI, of course!
———————
["…..and these elite Muslims, in the case of Afghanistan, are on the US's pay roll — and there is a very good chance this is also the case in Syria. "]
It is not that they (the elites) are on US payroll, they are good at fooling the US/European officials into believing that they know how to fix problems in the MidEast, that all that the western officials have to do is to provide funding and weapons.
And then these elites collaborate with mullahs to brainwash the ordinary Muslims. Brainwash them how? By teaching them Islam, that's how. Islam unfortunately, is an ideology that can be used to easily brainwash the gullible and radicalize them to the extreme. If there were no Islam, it would have been difficult as impossible to radicalize them.
————————-
["Now, what's wrong with the Taliban ruling the area after the enemy is expelled? Afghanistan is their country. They can do whatever they want in their own country, especially if they are in a ruling position."]
I agree with this claim, but there is more to the story. The Taliban used ISLAM to rule Afghanistan. Result: Afghanistan was a living hell, especially for women, and whoever got a chance to get out of there, was fleeing the country. After the Russians were defeated, the ISI was no longer being funded by US, and by extension neither were Taliban. They were doing things strictly by Islam.
You did not point out that Afghanistan is also the country of ordinary Afghans. They should not have to suffer hell in their own country. But they were, all thanks to Taliban imposing Islamic law on them. So once again we see that it is Islam at the root of the problem.
———————-
["Please note that I am no fan of the Taliban."]
No? Why not? What is it that the Taliban were doing that was not according to Islam?
BTW, I wrote an extented response (with a Quranic quote in it) to your previous post. Please make sure to check it out!
@knowTheEnemy:
// I do not need to read any books, I do not even need to read Quran or Hadiths.//
This explains almost everything regarding your verbal behavior in this website. You don't want to know, and this leads you to ignorance. You do not have the desire to know the other side better.
Sorry, I never referred to the moderates. You are putting words in my mouth. You think I meant that. You presumed I was talking about the moderates. And you are wrong. And you make judgment on the basis of wrong presumption.
//For whatever reason, their evil actions do not "provoke anger" in you! // This is again … wrong.
So, this is how you operate.
//When it comes to foreign policy, the US is no saint//
Thanks for acknowledging.
// and provided funding and weapons to ISI, but even then it was ISI who directly groomed the Taliban! //
Again, thanks for acknowledging. Say it differently: the US used the ISI to groom Taliban. A bit more differently: the US used Muslims to fight the Russian in Afghanistan.
I don't know the rhetoric used by the ISI to convince the Taliban to fight the Russian. I guess the ISI would refer to the Russians being communist and kafir and they were in Afghanistan colonizing the country. Presumably the gullible Afghans just swallowed it. They didn't know that the US, which was kafir, was behind all these things.
You said it correctly: "The Islam-brainwashed dumb rebels fight to their death". Who brainwashed them? ho benefited? you said it yourself: "it is the elite Muslims who benefit" — and these elite Muslims, in the case of Afghanistan, are on the US's pay roll — and there is a very good chance this is also the case in Syria.
Again, //When it comes to foreign policy, the US is no saint//. You said it, and I don't want to add anything more to it.
Now, what's wrong with the Taliban ruling the area after the enemy is expelled? Afghanistan is their country. They can do whatever they want in their own country, especially if they are in a ruling position. Please note that I am no fan of the Taliban.
Hypocrite is the writer whose article you posted for me to read yesterday (and the scholars that he referenced)-
en.alukah.net/Shariah/9/9/
In some places in the article they say Islam does not call women "deficient in intelligence and religion", and in other places they say "women ARE deficient in intelligence and religion" when it comes to this and that!
There are so many fallacies in that article, it would have taken me 3 hours to write a post pointing them out, but when you yourself admit that you are deficient in intelligence and don't feel ashamed, then what's the point of showing you errors
Yeah..if a bad moslem urinating on the wall which is haram in islam, these people will accuse this is from islam. And if they as infidels do whats haram i islam they will say its freedom of expression. Its very clear, we can conclude easily now. Hypocrites. Farmers of truth seeds. eventhough they hide, the seeds will show themselves as time passes by 🙂
More-
["I am sure you know that already without my informing you."]
Without you informing me, I now also know that you care more about the image of Muhammad than about the millions of people who are immensely suffering because "his thought, his teaching, his instruction remain with and for us [Muslims] to follow."
—————
["I can tell you that you cannot get your message across to Muslims if you are doing it this way."]
I told you earlier what this site's message is- That Muhammad was a fraud, and for this reason it is wrong to follow/obey him and commit atrocities against innocents! I also told you that we don't know of a gentle way of letting that message across to Muslims, but if you do, we are eager to learn of it!
——————-
["If you continue doing it, you will just provoke enmity. Then I have to doubt your sincerity — are you doing this for the sake of making and sustaining peace, or for provoking another war?"]
This site is not what is provoking enmity or war! You know full well that it was Muhammad who provoked enmity and war against non-Muslims 1400 years ago. He was the one who divided the world into Dar-al-Islam and Dar-al-harb! He is the one who claimed that Allah has permanent enmity with polytheists, Christians, and Jews.
If Ali takes down this site, would there be no more enmity or danger of war? Of course NOT! Devout Muslims had enmity with others, and they committed raids against others long before this site was started. If Ali takes this site down, Muslims will look for new excuses to attack others. They do this because the real reason for having enmity and wars against non-Muslims are the commands of Quran and Muhammad.
"Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and Al-Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolators and disbelievers, etc.)." [Al-Qur'an 5:82]
If we do everything as you say and butter it up by washing your feet 5 times a day, even then you are required by Islam to see us as enemies and actually attack us. This mullah explains it well in under 5 minutes. But then I am sure you know that already!
Lolol…okay…made me laugh..but abit indecent ^^"
["You should read books written by these writers so that, at least, you will be exposed to different ways of reading/understanding the Quran, hadith, history, culture and civilization of Islam."]
All I need to do to understand Islam is to take a look at how Muslims live and behave in the world. I do not need to read any books, I do not even need to read Quran or Hadiths. And I am sorry to say- Not only am I not impressed with the fruit of Islam, I am actually concerned that Islam is going to destroy the whole world!
The only reason why I started reading Ali Sina's articles is because no one else explained why Muslims do what they do. Ali's explanation on the other hand made perfect sense, it resonated with whatever little I knew of Islam's history, and because he backs all his claims with solid evidence! And because in all these years, no one has successfully rebutted his allegations!
—————
["Millions of people are happy in Islam and in being Muslim, and continue to be productive members of the the society. These terrorists are a minority, but they have a bigger mouth."]
"Bigger mouth" than who? the moderate Muslims? The moderate Muslims' mouths become quite big when someone draws a silly cartoon of Muhammad. And when terrorists are killed and attacked by non-Muslim authorities (drones, Afzal Guru etc). And when some Christian mistakenly says something against Islam.
But these same 'moderate' Muslims disappear into thin air when Muslims commit atrocities all over the world, including against each other! Tell me why no moderate Muslims say anything when terrorists yell allahu-akbar and kill munafiqs en-masse in Pakistan and Iraq, especially during Ramadan! Instead they complain against the non-Muslims for discussing these matters and call us 'Islamophobes'!
I'll tell you why moderate Muslims behave this way. Because they know that the terrorists are not doing anything that is truly un-Islamic! Take yourself for example! You are all concerned that we call Muhammad a fraud. You claim that we are wrong for associating terrorism with Islam. But when was the last time you contacted these "minority" of terrorists (online or otherwise) and told them they were going against Islam by committing killings and bombings?? For whatever reason, their evil actions do not "provoke anger" in you!
——————-
["Taliban was groomed by the US when the US fought against the Russian in Afghanistan. Now the US is happily arming the same kind of people in Syria."]
Taliban was not groomed by the US! It was groomed by Pakistan's ISI! The US leaders wanted someone, anyone to oppose the Russians in Afghanistan. ISI's Taliban was the only force solid enough to do that. When it comes to foreign policy, the US is no saint and provided funding and weapons to ISI, but even then it was ISI who directly groomed the Taliban!
But there is something deeper that one needs to realize. How was the ISI able to convince those Pashtuns to join Taliban and fight against the Russians to their death? Or more importantly, why didn't the Pashtun go home after defeating the Russians? Answer: Because of their (Taliban) belief in Islam! Islam says to fight the non-Muslim enemy and rule the area after expelling the enemy! And that is what the Taliban have been trying to do non-stop!
If there were no Islam, there would have been no Taliban. Without Islam, any nationalistic military group would have disintegrated after defeating the Russians.
Regarding Syria in 2013, the story is different. The upper levels of US Govt today have been deeply infiltrated with Muslims of all kind, especially Sunnis. This was not the case back in the 80's. The true loyalties of many of these Sunnis lie with Saudi Arabia, and the rest with Muslim Brotherhood. They all have agendas and they are the ones who fool todays' US leaders (Bush, Hillary, Obama etc) into supporting the so called 'rebels' against Al-Assad (who is a Shia and is friends with Iran). The Islam-brainwashed dumb rebels fight to their death, but it is the elite Muslims who benefit. Once again, Islam has a lot to do with the Syria situation!
——————-
[" I would like to inform you that the way you characterize Muhammad SAW is insulting to Muslims and you can provoke their anger."]
"Provoke their anger" and they will do what? They will kill and bomb? They are already doing that, and they were doing it long before this website was started! Who was "provoking their anger" back then? Why is it that Muslims are always provoked into anger over this or that thing?? Maybe if you ever study Islam you will learn why they do this!
@cchuckc:
Well, I presume they carried and wore the coat of arms wherever they went to invade other countries. I also presume the motto of "God and My Right" is a sort of guiding value for the Brits. I may be wrong. Please tell me what is the significance of this coat of arms to the plundering British colonialists?
@cchuckc:
//You can't deny that bloody history either.//
Neither can you deny that India has been the targets of competing powers coming from its West and North, even before the 13th century. There were Greek invasion, Persian invasion, Aryan invasion, and other invasions including those of Muslims and Europeans. All these invasions have both impoverished and enriched India. The Aryan's legacy is the beautiful language of Sanskrit. The Muslims left the beautiful buildings and gardens, while also encouraged trade between East and West. And the Brits, as you said, left democracy.
When he said "//The only person who felt its loss may have been the Maharaja if the diamond was in a palace or the priest if it was in a temple. // he ignored the plight of millions of Indians, or at least the Punjabis, under the British plundering rule. He said it as if the Koh-e-Noor was just a piece of jewellery. I have to emphasize here that the Koh-e-Noor is the symbol of sovereignty, of honor, and of the nation's dignity. So, any belittling statement can be considered an insult.
//The Anglo-Sikh battles were not fought for pan Indian independence.//
But it planted a powerful seed toward the fight for Pan Indian independence. Remember, the Amritsar massacre also happened in the Punjab, and it was considered to be an Indian massacre.
//A big chunk of the Muslims helped break the country, lest you forget. //
I don't forget the partition of 1947. But the partition was decided by the people of India. They thought they could not live together and a separate country would be a perfect solution according to the logic of those days. So they parted way. There was no plundering by Muslims who headed North, neither by Hindus who headed South. Still, admittedly, so much blood was shed. I would refer you to read a novel by Khuswant Singh "Train to Pakistan" which gives a good story of the Partition.
// … in the bargain … //
What a wonderful choice of word. In a previous post you generously considered it (in a way was) a loot. Now it is a bargain …
Tell me how Ranjit Singh recovered the Koh-e-Noor from the Muslims? Did the diamond belong to Ranjit Singh in the first place?
@cchuckc:
I was not convinced that s/he was ikhlaas. If s/he was ikhlaas, s/he could just leave — but s/he did not do it because of income consideration. There are many people like her/him. When I wrote "cannot" I meant s/he failed to convince me of his/her sincerity/ikhlaas.
Doubts can come any time, and it is a torture. However, I am sure there are many Muslims who can restore her/his faith, if s/he has the will to do it. But s/he does not want to consult other people. S/he even advises people against consulting the Ulamas. This is not a sign of openness, nor is it a sign of open-mindedness.
//If he has exhausted all efforts and didn't find the light it can as well mean that there is/was no light to be found and that is immensely more likely.//
Many seekers have found the light.
//That is extra-logical.//
That is to you. But it totally makes sense to me. Now we can see that we are operating on a different logical platform.
Guest:
Many people think and reason thus. And I too applaud people who practice respect. And maintain dialog.
Both respecting and insulting messages exist, both are part of dialog. And the combination is probably the most beneficial for mankind.
I always was aware and in favor of respectful dialogue. But also of harsh-criticism and insulting where appropriate and useful. And that is what many people, and you, abhor, and want to advise against and often CENSOR.
But I believe that the ABSENCE of harsh-criticism & insulting is bad, even for the respectful dialoquers. You see, there is no contrast then, no bad cop versus good cop. And Ayaan Hirsi Ali already in # 2002, when she first began to criticize Islam, noted that even the slightest contradiction and pinprick against Islam was regarded as insulting and vehemently protested by Muslims.
Even relatively respecting dialoguers then were the extremist anti-Islamists from the Muslim's point of view. And dialoques often soon foundered on Muslim anger and boycott. But now there are real rough critics of Islam and the respecting dialoquers are much better received by many Muslims. And the respecting dialoguers often do use the rough critics as contrast, saying that they are not like them and against them. And anyway, the prophit from them, like the Pope also prophited from the contrast between him and harsh critics.
Something else I noticed in the past, when respectful, mild criticism was presented to Muslims, the Muslims massively ignored it. Or they did not seriously address the criticism, because of "busy schedules", fatique/ illness, other "pressing" engagements, or even because of "being disinterested/ bored". It was only after Islam was frequently heavily insulted, that many Muslims paid full attention to criticism and complaints.
And politicians in my country, long before Muslims came in the picture, had noted that to get real attention for something they wanted to be put on the agenda by the opposition and the media, and soon, they had to "rock the boat", "throw a big stick in the hen-house" by making some real insulting & provoking statements.
@Guest,
//And your Her Majesty's coat of arm is "God and My Right", which suggests that the Brits did the plundering in the name of the God they were worshipping. Is it too much if we call this God God of Thieves? //
Another Tu Quoque. You therefore actually don't disagree with what @ihateislam says. I don't think the British were fighting in the name of God and Jesus, the coat of arm of the Queen of England not withstanding. At least I haven't seen any such reference in whatever I have read about the Anglo Sikh wars, have you?
"If Her Majesty is to be called the "Queen of Thieves" because of the stolen diamond, should muhammadanism not be called the 'Cult of Thieves" because it was founded by an armed robber who boasted that booty had been made halal for him?"
And your Her Majesty's coat of arm is "God and My Right", which suggests that the Brits did the plundering in the name of the God they were worshipping. Is it too much if we call this God God of Thieves?
@Guest,
//The treaty of Lahore is a treaty of subjugation of a defeated nation to a conqueror, after which the Brits were free to plunder India (i.e. Punjab). India was humiliated.//
Yes it was. When am I denying it? As indeed in every war there is a victor and a loser. The point isn't that the treaty wasn't for subjugation but : 1. Why are we discussing this vis a vis Islamic loot and plunder and 2. Does after this battle the British started killing Sikhs and Hindus en masse, looting cities and enslaving helpless and non-militant citizens?
//Why do you still need to refer to the treaty of Lahore? Does it make the looting a just act? //
I am not justifying anything. I said, you may call it a loot, but war reparation as part of a treaty is bound to be harsh on the losing camp, that is generally not called loot. Check 1, 2 and 5 here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loot?s=ts
And why did the Sikh's lose the war? One of the primary reason was that many among the Muslims of Punjab fought under the British officers.
//the Brits still killed thousands of unarmed innocent citizens of Amritsar. //
You mean after the second Anglo-Sikh wars, or are you referring to the Jalianawala Massacre (which is after the Anglo Sikh wars technically but 70 years later!!)
//Whatever you say about the Muslims of India, they are an integral part of India. They are Indians. They live in India together with the Hindus, the Buddhists, etc in happiness and in sadness, in poverty and in prosperity. But the Brits never become Indians. //
I don't disagree, but this discussion wasn't required at all. You have simply created a Straw man (the loot of Kohinoor by the British) and now hitting it any which way that you want. We were talking about the looting and invasions by the Islamic Mongols.
//The muhammadan conquest of India cost more than 80 million Indian lives.//
When did the last conquest take place? How many people were living in India during the conquest?
@Guest,
//Muslims built civilization in India and the remains of it are the pride of India//
More than building civilizations they imposed their, mostly Persian, partially Arabic civilization on India. They ravaged existing culture and their icons. Buddhism was totally destroyed in Gandhar and later in much of India, Jainism was left stranding in smaller pockets and the total number of Hindu temples grounded can't be counted. Yes I agree India got its share of grand Islamic building and gardens but that came on the back of about 7-800 years of loot and plunder. You can't deny that bloody history either.
I am no big fan of Colonialism but at least the British didn't try to tamper with the social fabric (at least not on a massive scale), and they did bring in a kind of legislature (democracy) that forms the backbone of the current government structure, something every Indian should be just as much proud of.
//Muslims remain in India and their wealth is the wealth of India, and the Brits fled the country with their plunders. //
A big chunk of the Muslims helped break the country, lest you forget.
//You are insulting the Indian's struggle to expel the Brits from their country. //
I am not sure @ihateislam's comment insults it any more than your hinging India's struggle for independence to that one incidence. The Anglo-Sikh battles were not fought for pan Indian independence. It is unfortunate that the Kohinoor was lost, in the bargain, after Raja Ranjit Singhji had recovered it from the barbaric muslim looters.
@Guest ,
//I need to be convinced — and I think it is my prerogative//
Since you are playing with semantics, let me point to you exactly what you said: "Sorry, you cannot convince me.". See that 'cannot'?
It means that you are not prepared to be convinced and that is so even before this article was ever written!! Thats why its not the scholars prerogative to convince you. (S)he is just making a statement of FACT.
//If the aim is to become a star, then it is purely a worldly pursuit.//
Now we are moving in circles. The person has clarified what he meant by the phrase and I have already stated what that phrase sounded to me.
//Ikhlaas does not mean stopping questioning, but s/he also has to dig into knowledge that has been accumulated in the last 14 centuries of Islamic scholarship.//
How do you know (s)he hasn't? Its your presumption and nothing else. Anybody who wants to be the very best would dig deep into every aspect of the study she is committing to. In a sense the 'Ikhlaas' you are referring to would stop you to think critically and pursue your goal with intent of learning.
//If s/he has exhausted all her/his effort to find the light of God and failed to find it, that means hidaya/guidance does not come to her/him.//
That is extra-logical. If he has exhausted all efforts and didn't find the light it can as well mean that there is/was no light to be found and that is immensely more likely.
Demsci:
I have seen and read Muslims and Christians bartering insults. What results was more enmity in both sides. This kind of thing does not promote peace and mutual respect.
But let us look at people who understand the value of dialog and respect. The Pope visited and was warmly received in the grand mosque of Istanbul. Muslim leaders were received in Vatican. Barrack and Michele Obama were received by the imam of the grand mosque of Indonesia IN the mosque. These are pioneering steps toward world peace.
//No, criticizing-insulting is not done just to provoke, harass, it definitely has beneficial effects too.//
Probably. But surely the potential harm is much greater than the potential benefit. In Islamic jargon: "the mudara is greater than the manfaa"
You have to read history of colonialism in India. Muslims built civilization in India and the remains of it are the pride of India, but the Brits created poverty and dependency on millions and millions of Indians. Muslims remain in India and their wealth is the wealth of India, and the Brits fled the country with their plunders.
//The only person who felt its loss may have been the Maharaja if the diamond was in a palace or the priest if it was in a temple. // You are insulting the Indian's struggle to expel the Brits from their country.
Regarding the story of cotton trade in West Africa, please visit Mali, Cameroun, etc and see for yourself the pauperization of West African cotton farmers through unfair trade practices of the so-called developed countries. If you have a heart, you will cry.
@cchuck:
I hope this is not another joke. The treaty of Lahore is a treaty of subjugation of a defeated nation to a conqueror, after which the Brits were free to plunder India (i.e. Punjab). India was humiliated. The diamond was a a war booty. Was the Maharajah's presenting it to Queen Victoria a voluntary act of honor and respect? Off course not. Why do you still need to refer to the treaty of Lahore? Does it make the looting a just act?
British imperialism is the main cause of poverty in India in the last two-three centuries, and its impact lasts until today. The Brits became extremely rich, and the Indians fell into abject poverty. Indian industries were destroyed by the colonial power. And after the subjugation … the Brits still killed thousands of unarmed innocent citizens of Amritsar.
Whatever you say about the Muslims of India, they are an integral part of India. They are Indians. They live in India together with the Hindus, the Buddhists, etc in happiness and in sadness, in poverty and in prosperity. But the Brits never become Indians.
//"I can tell you that you cannot get your message across to Muslims if you are doing it this way. If you continue doing it, you will just provoke enmity. "//
No, criticizing-insulting is not done just to provoke, harass, it definitely has beneficial effects too.
Insulting Mohammed does get Ali Sina's message across sometimes. Once his message is conveyed Muslims must keep it in mind so as not to confirm it, and therefore they must consider well what they say and do, which they without knowledge of his message would not do. So they will speak and behave better because of it.
And of course when Muslims occasionally do behave bad against their fellow Muslims, their wives and daughters for instance, the victims of oppression may well consider "the enemy of MY enemy is my friend". And if Muslims know this, they then have to compete with Ali Sina for the support of their fellow Muslims, by treating them well and fair. Which they would not have to do, when they had total power over other Muslims and when there was no fierce criticism on/ insulting of Mohammed.
If Muslims perceive insults, "bad speech", let them respond with their own insults, or "good speech", NOT WITH ATTEMPTS OF CENSORSHIP!
//" I would like to inform you that the way you characterize Muhammad SAW is insulting to Muslims and you can provoke their anger."//
Guest, under Democratic rules, all religions and lifestyles must play by the same rules, but Muslims like you want to make an exception for Mohammed and Islam, and you demand extra privileges for Islam. And it is no good if Muslims promise to play by THEIR rules and not insult other religions and revered persons themselves. Because this attitude still shows huge contempt for the by Democratic people utmost revered and cherished principle of freedom of speech.
Under freedom of speech no religion (and the dead Mohammed belongs to Islam) is protected against pure verbal and non-violent insults, in the media, on internet, and anywhere where people can zap or go away and avoid hearing them.
And people are also NOT legally protected against verbal insults and resultant hurt feelings. This does not justify any violent reaction in any way.
There is the huge question who decides where the border lies between criticism and insulting. When the complaining people convince lawmakers to forbid insulting Mohammed or any other revered person, it may well happen that criticism on revered persons becomes impossible, because people become afraid that ANY criticism on revered persons will be considered insulting and punishable by law. Democratic people understand this and accept insults of ANY historic person, even and especially Jesus Christ.
@Know the Enemy
/First, if you keep using the language that you learnt at home, we are going to ask Ali Sina to ban you from posting. Then not only you will not be able to use filthy language here, you also will not be able to tell us where we are wrong about Islam and Muhammad!! Therefore, be wise and start behaving like decent people!/
This rat is nothing more than a stone thrower at infidels processions(he don't have independent mind to analise things) upon instigation's/indoctrinations from the illiterate Mullah's (Kadir Rana like miscreants ) .You have raised proper objections above .The administrator should really take note about this (narcole should guide this guy with her Prophets wisdom).I really like your in-depth understanding of subjects , thank you.
Koran is garbage . Muslims knows this,but can't resist big breasted white skinned sex slave in Allah' brothel.
I won't live in a heaven ruled by Allah.
Ok, let me explain some things to you because you clearly do not understand.First, if you keep using the language that you learnt at home, we are going to ask Ali Sina to ban you from posting. Then not only you will not be able to use filthy language here, you also will not be able to tell us where we are wrong about Islam and Muhammad!! Therefore, be wise and start behaving like decent people! Second, if Ali Sina refuses to debate you live, he is not losing anything. His website will stay intact and he will keep writing more about Islam. New people will keep visiting this site and read his articles. More and more people will see that his writings make sense and that he is correct about what he says about Islam and Muhammad. The only one to lose is going to be Islam. Therefore if you don't want people to think of Muhammad as a criminal fraud, you and other Muslims are the ones who need to meet Ali's demand for debate! So, if you are really that desparate to protect Islam and Muhammad, find a Islam scholar and convince him to debate with Ali online. If no one agrees and chicken out like Zoker Naik, YOU go study Islam, become a scholar, and debate Ali! Really that is the only option you have! You say you are not a scholar. Fine! You can at least asnwer one question that we have regarding Islam that I already asked- When is Sura 5:101-102 in context? Go to the masjid and ask the haji saab and tell us what he says. (Do it today because tomorrow is juma and it is going to be busy at the masjid). If the answer makes sense, at least someone here will accept it! Can you at least do that?
Grow up, kid!
No, certainly I am not .. after reading some posts and comments I can easily say Ali-Sina is not even dust of Zakir Naik.
You have not shown how the theft of the crown diamond impoverished the Indian populace. It didn't deprive them of their freedom. Nor did it take away their personal wealth. The only person who felt its loss may have been the Maharaja if the diamond was in a palace or the priest if it was in a temple.
If Her Majesty is to be called the "Queen of Thieves" because of the stolen diamond, should muhammadanism not be called the 'Cult of Thieves" because it was founded by an armed robber who boasted that booty had been made halal for him?
I am from and live in West Africa. The story you posted on cotton is wild muhammadan fabrication. In my country there are govt agencies not controlled by an external body which regulate trade on primary commodities. Every body is free to sell his produce to whoever wants to buy. People freely export what they have. Nobody's progress is impeded.
Muhammadans did not enslave only 500,000 Indians. That figure relates to only one raid by Mahmud of Ghanzi. The muhammadan conquest of India cost more than 80 million Indian lives. "THAT WAS THE ROLE OF THE MUHAMMADAN GAME IN THOSE DAYS IN INDIA".
Black slaves were first found with the muhammadans who had carried on the heinous enterprise for more than 800 years before the Europeans bought one. Bilal, who called the first adzan was a black slave and Muhammad also had a black salve boy who would later die in one of the raids.
No, certainly I am not .. after reading some posts and comments I can easily say Ali-Sina is not even dust of Zakir Naik.
Zakir Naik:
A Muslim spreading Islam alone before the thousands and hundreds of People on TV
Please find below my chat with Ali sina
Jussay: Hi Ali sina … why dont you debate on tv
Piglet(Alisina) No…….. I can not Islamist will kill me
Jussay: Taslima Nasreen and Sulman Rushdi still alive (Taslima even in India now)
Piglet: Oh man.. Taslima is a female and Sulman is a male.. but me.. I am a Gay soo I cannot show my face
Jussay: Ok do one thing debate in ISRAHELL (USA and Europ's Puppy)
Piglet: Sorry I cannot
Jussay: Ok wear Burkha or Ghonghat
Piglet : I cannot .. even in Ghoonghat
Jussay: Why
Piglet: Are you mad or what.. I can hide my face but what about my ass.. its still bleeding as Zionist daily fuck me
Jussay: Oh poor gay .. Now I understand..ok can you debate me
Piglet: No.. I will debate only with scholar, because common man insult me
Jussay: What about your insulting of a divine man (Muhammed salla ho alla wa sallam) even he is not here to reply your lies
Piglet: This is my job, I will get paid for this
Jussay: Oh okk but I can offer you something good
Piglet: Nooo I cannot ok bye I got to go now, phucking session will start in a few mins…I need to clean my back and then get ready
chat with you later, take care….
@Guest.
//Well … so you were joking//
I am sorry but if you don't read the post in context and take out 2 words from it then the irony being projected would certainly be lost on you!! I am not sure whether I was correct in terming my thus saying a 'joke', but your response seems to have converted it into something amusing for sure. You even suggested the same to another poster who you have branded me to be 'flocking with'. I apologise profusely.
Ask your illegal countless fathers, they will reveal everything or do some google about us
Abbajaan is back now… so piglet, you watched movie which covered your race… great keep watching it and ate Muslim shit.
@cchuck:
Well … so you were joking.
"-FOND OF URINATING ON WALL–"
What a specialty! Being a Hyderabadi, you should go ahead and drink it too as Muhammad taught. Who knows it might be better for you than camel's urine.
@Sakat ,
Welcome back.
@Guest ,
//Please elaborate in the context of looting of Koh-e-Noor by the British// http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations
There was a war and then there was a treaty (Treat of Lahore) and one of its term was "The gem called the Koh-i-Noor which was taken from Shah Shuja-ul-Mulk by Maharajah Ranjit Singh shall be surrendered by the Maharajah of Lahore to the Queen of England" (See wikipedia). thats why I said you may say it was looting in a way, but it is very different from plundering cities, killing innocent citizens post-war etc that for example, Abdali, Timur, Babur, Ghori, Mehmud of Ghaznavi, Khilji, Sultan of Bahamani et al did (only covering India since that seems to where you come from).
@Guest ,
//Sorry, I did not acknowledge that //
If my joking that Allah certainly guided them to become muslims was an acknowledgement of Allah's guidance then how can you strip it of the context it was said? Read the first part of the comment where I said that we have to see it in the historical perspective.
//Also, did I say all Mongols converted to Islam?//
You certainly didn't, but the historical fact is that there was assimilation of the some Mongols and they turned out be worse invaders and plunderes. Some like Timur is believed to have killed 5% of the world population of his times.
@Eagle
He can go in Pakistan. In Pakistan & Afghanistan people are more safe than Narender Modi state Gujrat? How many violence in Gujrat since last 10 years? How many violance in Pakistan & Afganistan in last ten years?
@cchuckc,
I don't understand what you mean "There is a difference between war reparation and plundering cities and looking citizens. In their time the British certainly did such war crimes but this isn't an apt example. And what you are trying is called 'Tu quoque' which is a rhetorical fallacy." Please elaborate in the context of looting of Koh-e-Noor by the British.
@Jussay
"in India 90% Hindus usually go Dargah daily or weekly."
Do you go? If You what did you do there?
And what is special about being a Hyderabadi? Dan mbru uba!
Fond of urinating on wall LOLLLLLLLLLLL
@cchuckc:
Sorry, I did not acknowledge that " Islam made the Mongol convert even better looters, invaders and plunderers."
Also, did I say all Mongols converted to Islam?
I won't live in a country ruled by Narendra Modi: UR Ananthamurthy
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/i-wont-live-in-a-count…
You should read books written by these writers so that, at least, you will be exposed to different ways of reading/understanding the Quran, hadith, history, culture and civilization of Islam. Try to begin with Martin Lings if you have time. Try to appreciate his work. I am sure you will see things differently. It is a pity if you only rely on Ali Sina, because even if he quotes the texts extensively he will find flaws and shortcomings only. He fails to get to the light.
Millions of people are happy in Islam and in being Muslim, and continue to be productive members of the the society. These terrorists are a minority, but they have a bigger mouth. Taliban was groomed by the US when the US fought against the Russian in Afghanistan. Now the US is happily arming the same kind of people in Syria.
Insulting Muhammad SAW is not the same as insulting a dead body. Muhammad is "alive" among Muslims. He is not with us physically, but his thought, his teaching, his instruction remain with and for us to follow. Therefore, I would like to inform you that the way you characterize Muhammad SAW is insulting to Muslims and you can provoke their anger. I am sure you know that already without my informing you.
I can tell you that you cannot get your message across to Muslims if you are doing it this way. If you continue doing it, you will just provoke enmity. Then I have to doubt your sincerity — are you doing this for the sake of making and sustaining peace, or for provoking another war?
@ Chuck
This Jussay thinks everything is juicy ,he till don't know !!! usaka kis say pala pada hai ,you have done nice marathan (some Khatta some Meeta) so far with this zombie !!! hats up!!!.
@cchuckc:
I need to be convinced — and I think it is my prerogative :).
If the aim is to become a star, then it is purely a worldly pursuit. Somebody who is ikhlaas knows that Allah is the best provider, and this makes worldly pursuit secondary or tertiary on his/her list of priorities. Ikhlaas is a pursuit in itself and it can take you to success "fi al dunya wa al akhira" — that is in this world and the hereafter. Ikhlaas does not mean stopping questioning, but s/he also has to dig into knowledge that has been accumulated in the last 14 centuries of Islamic scholarship.
If s/he has exhausted all her/his effort to find the light of God and failed to find it, that means hidaya/guidance does not come to her/him. I believe Allah will reward her/him for the hard work, and without asking for or knowing it s/he will become a star.
Thank you sir, for your comments
@Guest,
//To me this is about looting.//
May be. So? There is a difference between war reparation and plundering cities and looking citizens. In their time the British certainly did such war crimes but this isn't an apt example. And what you are trying is called 'Tu quoque' which is a rhetorical fallacy.
//I have not checked the accuracy of this info, but perhaps you can help.//
Read the whole article on wiki, it has good number of references.
@Guest
//The enemies of Islam became Muslims and more will be. //
Thank YOU for acknowledging that Islam made the Mongol convert even better looters, invaders and plunderers. I have already pointed out that your assertion that Mongols converted to Islam is only partially correct. Most Mongols, and it is true even now in Mongolia, converted to Buddhism.
Woooow …
Don't look at Koh-i-Noor as mere diamond. It is a symbol of a sovereignty. If they could plunder Koh-i-Noor, they could do anything to ordinary Indian citizens. And now the British are proudly showing the plundered diamond set into the crown of their queen. Is it too much if we call the queen Queen of Thieves? That is why Indians fought fiercely to be independent from the British occupation.
Look at West African cotton trade. The West African farmers cannot sell their crops to the world without selling them first to European (French) traders. These farmers are just earning meager income, not better than slaves. Even if they are called farmers, in fact they are slaves without being called as such. This is worse than slavery, and it is affecting West African in the millions – and this is happening in the twenty first century.
In 18th century thousands of slaves were brought into England, and it was the high fashion of the time among rich ladies if they had BLACK CHILD SLAVES walking behind them carrying their stuff.
During Ottoman Empire slaves became high level officials. They became well trained bureaucrats, military, etc. Muslims conquered India and, as you quoted, enslaved 500,000 people, however, had the Muslims been defeated they would become slaves themselves. That was the role of the game in those days.
OPEN YOUR EYES …
Was that your prayer? You allah is very good at not answering the prayers of it's 'faithfuls'. As it did it to its rasul so has it done to its lesser beings. Just don't waste your time praying to that thing because it is completely dead as a dodo. Extinct, I mean.
Talking about plundering the wealth of Indian, this is what an Indian historian, M.A. Khan, quoting from the annals of al-Utibi, secretary to Mahmud of Ghanzi has to say:
"-GOD ALSO BESTOWED ON HIS FRIENDS SUCH AN AMOUNT OF BOOTY AS WAS BEYOND ALL BOUNDS AND CALCULATIONS, INCLUDING 500,000 SLAVES, BEAUTIFUL MEN AND WOMEN–"
Another Indian writer, Lal, added:
"–EVEN THE POOR(MUSLIM) HOUSEHOLDER BECAME OWNERS OF SLAVES-".
The British are guilty of having stolen the crown diamond from the rulers of India but that had no negative impact on the lives of the ordinary Indian citizen. The muhammadans are guilty of stealing the very humanity, among others, from the Indian people. What can possibly be worse than slavery?
Oh my dear ur still alive. alhamdulillah. i thought a lion ate u…:'
When i was a small child? Hm…i wasnt raised religiously. Both my parents aint religious. Its me who decided to be religious and started preaching until people cant listen more. Even my bf said he couldnt listen to my preaching anymore and please preach somewhere else. And when he said that, i was so glad, i got permission to talk with other guys than him, and showed him this site. My bf isnt from religious family either. He had been living in western life style. Until he met me he started learning sholat, fasting, majlis ta3lim etc…hes a good moslem man now. And i kept preaching him to do da3wah to his non religious family. He cant do that until now. Hes shy or afraid to do it. I hope by reading this his heart could be moved to start preaching. About conspiracy theories, its not believing. What to believe? Its not a ghaib thing. Its something you can check in real life and you still deny.
Im quite busy now. but since im generous ill give u hints to find the answer urself 😉
en.alukah.net/Shariah/9/9/
@cchuck:
I cut and pasted the following from wikipedia. To me this is about looting. I have not checked the accuracy of this info, but perhaps you can help.
"In 1850, the diamond [Koh-i-Noor] was confiscated from the Sikh Empire by the British East India Company and became part of the British Crown Jewels when Queen Victoria was proclaimed Empress of India in 1877. The diamond was traditionally known as "Kuh-e nur" in the 18th century after the British conquest of India. The diamond is currently set into the Crown of Queen Elizabeth and is on display at the Tower of London."
Just for your info, I cut and pasted the following from wikipedia:
In 1850, the diamond [Koh-e-Noor] was confiscated from the Sikh Empire by the British East India Company and became part of the British Crown Jewels when Queen Victoria was proclaimed Empress of India in 1877. The diamond was traditionally known as "Kuh-e nur" in the 18th century after the British conquest of India. The diamond is currently set into the Crown of Queen Elizabeth and is on display at the Tower of London.
Well, somebody else among your flock acknowledges it is about guidance. Never mind.
If it is about wealth and self preservation only, non-Muslims do the same. Europeans looted Asia, Africa and the Americas.
@cchuck:
Thank you for acknowledging the presence of guidance of Allah in the conversion of the Mongols. I believe in history. It repeats itself. The enemies of Islam became Muslims and more will be. The dawn of the return of Islamic civilization is already showing itself. It may not necessarily be in the form it was 400-500 years ago.
@Guest
//and not very long they became Muslims themselves and became carrier of the torch of Islamic civilization.//
Which when translated in the context of history shows that they looted even more, threatened to destroy even more and invaded even more territories. I mean those Mongols who assimilated into Islam. And the Khalkhas, who returned or never stepped out of Mongolia didn't become Muslims, they gradually took up Buddhism.
//This is all about guidance from Allah. //
Yeah certainly.
@knowTheEnemy
//Muslims make the 'context' excuse for all the suras that are clearly evil or stupid//
Which is close to 90% of Quran.
@jussay,
//if I said urinating on wall then it is fault of my religion//
I didn't ask you to stop urinating, did I? You have a right to say that, and that is freedom of expression. I am not stopping you from saying it. But I am just pointing you to the FACT that in every second post you talk about urinating here or there. This smells of a particular penchant for the unsanitary job which might have originated from your Islamic background.
//otherwise you know I am a Hyderabadi.//
Which Hyderabad? Indian or Pakistani? And how does it matter?
//Ek bar jo gali di wapas phir woh nahi donga//
For the Hindi impaired: I won't repeat the swearing I have used once.
@Guest,
//What I am not convinced of is her/his claim of sincerety/ikhlaas.//
You needn't. More than sincerity, which you think was lacking, I think a student needs the commitment and purpose to succeed in his/her study. You interpret "TO BE A STAR" as chasing worldly gain and fame while it is clearly implying the resolve to be the very best in what is being pursued. Ikhlaas without this junoon is self defeating. Now by following his/her desire to be the very best an insight is achieved which prompted this letter. If Ikhlaas makes you stop questioning then that knowledge is worthless, it will simply be a dogma and nothing more.
Dear X Muslim Scholar,
Please don't bother responding. When nothing is left to say they attack your person and your motivation. This is called ad hominem. Even in the comments on this article there is someone saying I know this site is garbage but I keep it because my livelihood depend on it. The truth is that i spend not just my time but also my money to keep my sites.
I think you should keep running your school until you can upgrade your diplomas and fins a teaching position in a university in another country. Meanwhile tell your students that all God cares is how much we love our fellow beings. This message resonate with their soul because that is what we are. Then when they come across the hate filled teachings of Muhammad, they will recognize the dissonance.
I must say I was lucky that I was so ignorant about Islam until I was already an adult and had familiarity with humanism, democracy and equality. Then when I read the Quran I saw I felt the dissonance and was aghast. Had I not been exposed to superior values, I would have accepted Islam on its face value.
"-YOU KNOW I AM A HYDERABADI–"
And what is special about being a Hyderabadi? Dan mbru uba!
"RUSSIANS WERE IDIOTS, THEY ATTACKED GERMANY–"
Typical muhammadan twisting of history. The Germans attacked Russia without any provocation and declaration of war because Hitler wanted land in the East for his 'lebensrum' or space for greater Germany. It took Stalin quite a while to believe that Russia was being attacked until reports reached him that waves upon waves of German panzers were rolling over his troops and their positions.Muhammadans will portray Hitler as the victim because he remains their hero.
"ALL ISRAHELLIS WERE ENJOYING IN HELL ALONG WITH THEIR RABBI".
It is common knowledge that one denizen of hell is that impostor prophet who was forsaken by the god he claimed to have served. His name: Muhammad ibn Abdallah ibn Mutallib.
"THIS IS ALL ABOUT GUIDANCE FROM ALLAH".
It has nothing to do with guidance. It has everything to do with wealth and self preservation.
["Off course we obey Allah and His Messenger. We believe Muhammad is Rasulullah who conveyed to us the message of Allah. Based on this, when Rasulullah was alive, Muslims followed his command. What's wrong with that?"]
You want to know what is wrong with that?? When Muslims followed Muhammad's commands innocent people suffered horribly! When Muslims follow Muhammad's (and his imaginary Allah's) commands today, innocent people, including Muslims, suffer day in and day out! (Here is an example from today's news….., This one from yesterday. And these are just the deaths; there is plenty of other suffering and abuse that doesn't result in death). In the last 1400 years hundreds of millions have suffered, all because of your belief in Muhammad's prophethood. THAT is what is wrong with that!
And THAT is why we have a problem with your 'Rasulullah'! If you stop believing he was Rasulullah, which he wasn't, all this suffering that happens because of a Muhammad's deception, will stop! That is what we are trying to make you realize!
———————–
["To the ears of Muslims that sounds an insult."]
Muslims feel insulted because they have let themselves be decieved by Muhammad's lies, and think of him as someone who cared about them. So they care for him back and get attached to him like one gets attached to his/her baby!
The aim of this site is to point out the facts and make you realize, correctly, that Muhammad was only decieving you. He is NOT your baby!
["If you believe these are facts, you can convey them in gentle and reassuring manner….."]
We ARE telling you in a reassuring manner that Muhammad was decieving you, and was a liar and a criminal! (That doesn't sound gentle does it? but we don't know how to convey that fact in a "gentle" manner! Why don't you tell us how to tell a Muslim in a "gentle" manner that Muhammad was a fraud). We are assuring you, with evidence, that he is not even remotely worthy of veneration! So DO NOT feel insulted and ditch him like any thug should be ditched!
Whatever this site says, it says about Muhammad, not about people who got decieved by his lies! But Muhammad is dead. 'Insulting' Muhammad is like insulting a dead body. Does a dead body feel the insult? No it doesn't. Therefore, we are not insulting anyone. Ali Sina started this site because he cares about Muslims and wants to free them from Muhammad's lies, not because he wants to insult them. You are a victim of Muhammad's lies. No normal person insults a victim!
——————-
["OK. So these are your references. From Ali Sina."]
No, the references are from Quran, Sahih hadiths, Sira, and scholars' writings (scholars that are respected by Muslims the world over)! And these references are all mentioned in the articles. Ali Sina has simply milked the truth out of these references.
Why should we read Rashid Ridha, HAR Gibb, Hossein Nasr, Martin Lings, or anyone else?? Do these people know more than the Quran and Sahih hadiths? Do these people explain things to us better than Allah does?
According to that passage by Abu Dawud, Muhammad had urged his followers to flee to Damascus for refuge. Now that Syria is burning with rival muhammadan gangs trying to annihilate the other, isn't it funny that the only protection that can be provided is from the infidels who are now being accused of not having done much to save the situation? Refugees are pouring out of instead of into Syria. Muhammad's prediction has turned 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Muhammadans should ask themselves what type of prophet they have had.
Is someone not showing his face such a big deal? If you take that to be a sign of cowardice, then think very seriously of this. Muhammad refused to show his ugly face when the Quraish surrounded his house. He sneaked out in the night through the window leaving Ali to lay in his bed wearing his(Muhammad's) gown to deceive the Meccans. That act of cowardice has become pivotal in muhammadanism as it is seen as the beginning of its era. So anytime you talk about the 'flight' or 'hijra', know that you are celebrating the epitome of cowardice. If it was proper for Muhammad not to show his face when asked to, then it is proper for Ali Sina not to show his face to muhammadans.
"-THEY WILL SNATCH YOUR PANT AND KEEP PENIS IN YOUR BACK HOLE RIGHT?"
Such is the muhammadan craving for deviant behavior. Muhammad had such a tendency and the shiites say Umar had the same too. Riyadh is now known as the "GAY CAPITAL" according to Sunni News.
oops… I totally forgot to mention that I was talking about Muhammad of Wahabis, Salafists, Deobandis, etc, in my last post. Not YOUR Muhammad!
2+2=5 but muslims believe the answer 4
This is the epitome of the muslim mindset.He/she is trapped in an underdeveloped stage and can't mature past adolescence.If you believe Naik has something valuble to say then please share it.If you believe Ali Sina is lying then expose exactly which parts.
You can start with this one.Zakir Naik said that all non-muslims believe 2+2+5 and muslims believe the answer is 4.Now tell us why this is not stupid and how does it validate Islam
Just abusing someone like Ali Sina is not a debate. Prove him wrong if you can. Ali Sina has wisely not exposed himself since he knows that Islam promotes terror and violence against those who expose the truth.
Blind people do not know that Muhammad was a false prophet and Pedo-terrorist who tricked you into following Islam by promising you virgins in Heaven.
@Jussay
And why Islamist say today our population is …..% of this world they have to say only a little bit population of Actual Muslims and rest are Kafir, but you don't know what is Kufr and what is truth? If you know, you will not use such sentence. You have blind faith on Muhammad and his Imaginary Allah.
Dear X Muslim Scholar,
Then you be the scholar in this website, and tell us your finding after 11 years of studying Islam. Be original.
@knowTheEnemy
// I believe you, but this was common knowledge back then. People believed in seeking happiness now and in the hereafter even a thousand years before Islam, so there is nothing new there! //
Who said it was new?
// This site is not "insulting" any Allah. Allah does not exist! Allah died the moment Muhammad died because Allah was made up by Muhammad! This site is simply pointing these facts out! //
To the ears of Muslims that sounds an insult. Don't you know that? What is your aim? Just to point out "facts"? Will you be happy with that? If you believe these are facts, you can convey them in gentle and reassuring manner and we can come to a discussion.
// Ok so you have NOT read many articles here. Please read ten-twelve articles and you will get the answer. Here, start with these two- http://alisina.org/blog/2012/07/29/holland-c-tylo… http://alisina.org/blog/2012/07/30/holland-c-tylo…. //
OK. So these are your references. From Ali Sina. Why don't you do your own original reading? If Ali Sina is the only reference you have, off course everything Islam is wrong. You will find nothing good about Islam in his writing. Be a thinking person. Why don't you read Rashid Ridha? Why don't you read HAR Gibb? Why don't you read Martin Lings as well? Why don't you read Hossein Nasr?
//"Obey Allah and his messenger", and ask yourself why Muhammad included himself when he told people to obey Allah.//
Off course we obey Allah and His Messenger. We believe Muhammad is Rasulullah who conveyed to us the message of Allah. Based on this, when Rasulullah was alive, Muslims followed his command. What's wrong with that?
@Jussay
"I am not concerned on Wahbis and their Idiology.. I want to kick all piglets who are using Mohammed Salla Allah ho alaiwa salam name."
Dawud :: Book 40 : Hadith 4579 Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Jews were split up into seventy-one or seventy-two sects; and the Christians were split up into seventy one or seventy-two sects; and my community will be split up into seventy-three sects.
Reported by Awf ibn Malik Al Ashja'l:The Prophet said, "How will you be O Awf when this nation is divided into 73 sects. One sect will be in Paradise and the rest in Hell." I asked: "When will this be O Messenger of Allah?" He answered, saying: "When the police increase and slave girls take authority, and when the lambs (weak authorities) sit on the pulpit, and when the Qu'ran is used as flutes and mosques decorated and the spoils of war manipulated, and the obligatory charity becomes an excessive debt, and trust is taken like spoils of war, and religious study is not for the Sake of Allah and when husbands obey their wives, and disobeys his mother, and banishes his father, and the last of this nation curses the beginning of it, and when the tribe is mastered by a deviator, and the leader of the nation is the worst of them and a man is treated generously to avoid his evil. Upon that day it will happen and men will run to Syria to the City of Damascus, which is one of the best cities in Syria that protects them from their enemy … " I asked: "Will Syria be opened?" He answered: "Yes, soon then after its opening the trials will start and a dark and dusty trial will come. Trials will follow one another until a man from the Family of my House called the Mahdi comes. If you reach him, follow him and be among those who are guided." Here your beloved Prophet said my sect will be in 73 so how will you kick them. This prove you all only read Quran and Hadith but not understand.
What's wrong with Piglets? They are so cute if you take care of them well (Have you ever watched the movie 'Babe'?). And they are intelligent!
Even Muhammad did not know what was wrong with pigs. He simply copied the Jews to make himself look upper-class!
—————-
["Ass-hole"]
Look, calling us names is NOT going to protect Muhammad's reputation! Only sound logical explanation about how he was a 'prophet' is going to save his image! Can you do that?
—————-
["if someone ask my nationality I will say Indian, I cannot say Human being.."]
Who was talking about nationality? You wanted to know my *religion*, not nationality, and I gave you the answer!
Who's G-D??
Why are you so eager to see Ali Sina's face? So you can kill him? We don't doubt your killing skills! What we doubt is that Islam will survive once the truth about Muhammad is known to all!
["He can debate with me even wearing GHOONGHAT."]
Ali Sina only debates scholars or other people who are reputed among Muslims to have great understanding of Islam. Are you a scholar?
And he only debates online, because this gives each party more time to prepare good error-free answers! Zakir Naik debates live and you full know how many errors and mistakes he make every minute of his talk!
Oh really I thought that you are a Piglet not human being. Ass-hole, I will explain what i s expecting from you, if anybody calls me by name I will respond that is my identity but apart from this, if someone ask my nationality I will say Indian, I cannot say Human being..
What is 'circular' in my response, or do you not know what 'circular' means?
The formal name of my religion is Humanity, and I gave you the two major principles of this great religion!
@X Muslim Scholar,
You can just leave for another destination where you will feel more comfortable. If you continue teaching in that school, you will be suffering internally. Money is nothing compared to spiritual discomfort you are experiencing with your present understanding about Islam. But I remain with my initial suggestion for you to re-inspect your niyyah, because I am sure you will not come to this stage if you are ikhlaas. Allah may make someone a star even if s/he does not aspire for it.
["I am not concerned on Wahbis and their Idiology.. I want to kick all piglets who are using Mohammed Salla Allah ho alaiwa salam name."]
Ok but what I am saying is that the Wahabi, Salafi, Deobandi ideology etc is compatible with their Quran, and their Muhammad, not yours. You probably believe in a different Quran and different Muhammad!
Therefore, you should kick those piglets (wahabis, salafis, deobandis etc) because they are turning this world into hell using Muhammad's name for whoever their prophet is!
Why dont your Ali sina show face after being the status of powerful Internet ,Democracy and Police. He can debate with me even wearing GHOONGHAT.
Baby why don't you dare to say G-D dead? you cannot because you will get bankrupted, they will snatch your pant and keep penis in your back hole right?
Again circular and coward answer…do you have name of that religion or no? who is God in that religion? what are the principles of that religion…
I am not concerned on Wahbis and their Idiology.. I want to kick all piglets who are using Mohammed Salla Allah ho alaiwa salam name.
["The Allah that you are insulting says in the Quran that people should seek happiness in the hereafter without forgetting their happiness in the present life. This is in the Quran."]
I believe you, but this was common knowledge back then. People believed in seeking happiness now and in the hereafter even a thousand years before Islam, so there is nothing new there!
This site is not "insulting" any Allah. Allah does not exist! Allah died the moment Muhammad died because Allah was made up by Muhammad! This site is simply pointing these facts out!
———–
["My question to you is how did you come to conclude that Muhammad Rasulullah " … wanted people to forget everything about themselves and serve him (Muhammad) alone.""]
Ok so you have NOT read many articles here. Please read ten-twelve articles and you will get the answer. Here, start with these two-
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/07/29/holland-c-tylo…
http://alisina.org/blog/2012/07/30/holland-c-tylo…
Also read the Quran. Ok the entire Quran would be too much to read, so read only Sura 8 and see how often you come across "Obey Allah and his messenger", and ask yourself why Muhammad included himself when he told people to obey Allah. When Muhammad was alive and people wanted to 'obey' Allah, whose commands were they really obeying!
If that doesn't help you see Muhammad's narcissism, read this short article too- http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge/narcissist….
If you read all this with an open mind, you WILL see that Muhammad only cared about people paying attention to him alone. When they (the people) were giving share of war spoils to Allah, it was Muhammad receiving them. Similarly, when they were being loyal to Allah, it was Muhammad who enjoyed loyal servants who were ready to kill and be killed for him!
Demsci,
This sort of people can just leave Islam … Muslims want to have scholars who are genuine, ikhlaas/sincere. I agree with you there are many Muslim teachers who teach for the sake of a steady income. They are just too comfortable materially with whatever they are gaining from Muslims around them that they have no more trust in Allah who is the Best Provider. There is no creativity in their work. No ijtihad. Muslims will be better off without them.
@ Kismet,
Don't fire on air with your words. You know that I am not JOBLESS and I am running a school. The problem is not with my job but the problem is with Islam. I believed in it and devoted my 11 years in studying Islam.
The problem is I am not comfortable with this baseless Islam. I just asked Dr. Ali Sina whether is it good to change the career or not.
THIS WAS NOT A JOB APPLICATION
Peace be upon YOU
@ Guest
Sorry Mr.Guest, I am not trying to convince you. I was just explaining you what I meant with it.
First of all, I am not good in English. I did my studies in Arabic Language. The English whatever I know today is my self study. Being a student of this language I can make mistakes in composition.
Let me tell you that this letter was mailed to Dr. Ali Sina, I didn't expected that it will be published Online. I know very well for whom this message was mailed, he has got my point and my INTENTION.
Again my suggestion to Mr. Guest is your religion is not safe as you believe. Being a scholar I know that Islam and the Quran is baseless.
IF your intention is to please Allah, then open your mind and study Quran, Hadith without the explanations of Ulamas.
Peace be upon YOU.
@cchuckc:
" … The new Ottoman's could be Jews!! " This is not impossible. The history of Islam shows this. The Mongols invaded and destroyed centers of Islam, and not very long they became Muslims themselves and became carrier of the torch of Islamic civilization.
This is all about guidance from Allah.
["Islam has different shades….."]
["Wahabis your step brothers"]
Ahhaa! well then you do not need to worry about this site at all. This site is designed to debunk the Quran, sahih hadiths, and seerah of Wahabis and all those intolerant radical shades of Islam, not yours! Because it is THEIR actions that are consistent with their Quran, their sahih hadiths, and their seerahs.
Wow… that was easy, no? Now you can just relax…. we have nothing against your shade of Islam!!
you too make sure to ask "adonai" to help you
Nice.. if I said urinating on wall then it is fault of my religion.. and if you put QURAN Shareef on floor and draw animal image, then it is freedom of expression…Oye yaar stop cheating yourself, did I use bad word for any other relgion or religious personality?. Obviously it is Islam which prevent me to do so.. otherwise you know I am a Hyderabadi. Ek bar jo gali di wapas phir woh nahi donga.
Might be your G-D told this, wake up piglet and clean your back with your holy water.. hahaa
Hi Piglet, I have good references of 9/11 attacks. Insha Allah i will share here soon.
I am still busy with some other stuff but could not stop to write here on your idiotic comment. Islam has different shades and Sufism is one of them. Regarding Pakistan and Mali incidents they are Wahabis your step brothers.
One important note here: Ottoman empire collapsing is the reason of this Yahud and Saud nations.Insha Allah again Khilafath Ottoman/Muslimeen will emerge soon which deals with socio-econo issues and pseudo nationalism
@knowTheEnemy,
You don't know Islam. Sorry.
The Allah that you are insulting says in the Quran that people should seek happiness in the hereafter without forgetting their happiness in the present life. This is in the Quran. If you want to know, check for yourself where it is in the Quran, if you can't find it you always can come back to me.
My question to you is how did you come to conclude that Muhammad Rasulullah " … wanted people to forget everything about themselves and serve him (Muhammad) alone."
they cannot pay if Muslim stay calm."
Ah,the "calm" muslim ( synonym of "peaceful" muslim) is what Muhammad was.He calmly chopped off his enemies heads,calmly raped their women and plundered their goods.Muslims today,follow his footsteps and calmly terrorize other muslims daily.
Is not Islam secular?"
Let me get this straight.So it's your contention that the main goal of Sharia (islamic jurisprudence) is to seperate Islam from the State's affairs and to remain neutral in support of religion or irreligion.Geez…you muslims are funny when you're so desperate for validation.
Perhaps you can quote verses from the quran or hadith to substantiate your argument.
["Ikhlaas means to have the intention of only Allah in one's acts of obedience. The motive must be only the Proximity and Pleasure of Allah."]
Which Allah (God)? The one that Muhammad told you about?? I don't know if you have read any other articles on this site but if you read a few now, you will see that it is Muhammad's claims regarding Allah that have been debunked here!
The non-Muhammad Allahs (Gods) do understand that people sometimes ask for things that they desire in this world. These understanding Gods do not take your faith away simply because you desired something for yourself! Only the narcissist Allah of Muhammad* demands total obedience to his commands (written in Quran)!
*Muhammad himself was a narcissist and wanted people to forget everything about themselves and serve him (Muhammad) alone. That is why his made-up Allah has same traits and tendencies as Muhammad!
@jussay,
//JIS PAR PESHAB KARNA MANA NAHI HAI//
I understand your preoccupation with urinating. Muhammad (piss be upon him) taught you that well enough.
//INSHA ALLAH new ottoman khilfat will emerge sooon…from Bangladesh to Spain //
Fortunately Muslims are incapable of doing that. The new Ottoman's could be Jews!!
["by the way which relgion you follow?"]
I follow the religion that encourages me to look for answers better than I have now. I follow the religion that asks me to improve the lives of everyone in the world, including animals and environment. You can call this religion whatever you want, just don't tell me that Islam is such a religion because it is not!
["I will reply i n detail tonight as I got to go outside for some urgent work…"]
Make sure to stop by at the masjid and ask the sheikh saab if he can give the answer to what I asked-
[OK tell me, in what context is Sura 5:101-102 applicable?? When does a person lose faith in Islam just for receiving answers for questions that s/he is curious about??]
NO, Islam is not secular! Those Hindus go to Sufi dargahs. The Sufis don't tell them (many probably don't even know) that Sufism is not the same religion that Quran and Sunna teach believers to follow. Some Sufis preach stuff that sounds lot more like Hinduism than anything like Islam. The dargahs take advantage of Hindus' ignorance of real Islam and make money off of them!
In Pakistan your Sunni brothers attack Sufi dargahs. Last year your sunni brothers were attacking Sufi shrines in Mali. None of the sunnis in the world complained about the attacks. The French had to come in and repel the jihadis! And then true to form, Muslims were upset at the French for attacking their Muslim brothers!
I will reply i n detail tonight as I got to go outside for some urgent work… mean-time you can do home work.. Hey you used word hell and heaven in your comments, by the way which relgion you follow? dont say that you are atheist. if you are soo then write something about Zionist and Dajjal……
["Baby grow up just check the context of the Sura not content only."]
Muslims make the 'context' excuse for all the suras that are clearly evil or stupid! And they make the same claim when it comes to Muhammad's evil doings and sayings!
OK tell me, in what context is Sura 5:101-102 applicable?? When does a person lose faith in Islam just for receiving answers for questions that s/he is curious about??
Thank God that you asked one relevant question. Have you hospitalized any time? Did your doctor say dont use food, just drink Juices. Does it mean Doctor recommends/Advice against his patient. Eating food harm human? Baby grow up just check the context of the Sura not content only.
If I use/draw graphics of hoaxcaust.. your countless father cry, and say Muslims are ruthless they dont respect other feeling. Where that gone now?
Funny thing is Entire Europe claim they are atheist and then dying for a WALL (JIS PAR PESHAB KARNA MANA NAHI HAI).
INSHA ALLAH new ottoman khilfat will emerge sooon…from Bangladesh to Spain
Who cares about Zionists? They are not a danger to the free world!
["Dajjal Followers sins and crimes against all humanity"]
The very reason why Ali made this website is so that you learn who the dajjal's agent was – Muhammad that is, and so that you learn the kind of crimes he committed against humanity!
[" I felt shock when I saw that graphic (Quran with one animal) on this ****ty site."]
Now wait till you read the Quran, then you will know what REAL shock is! Here is one example from Sura 5 ayat 101-
"O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which, if [answers are] disclosed to you, will cause you trouble."
Ayat 102-
"Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith [in Islam]."
You probably don't know but when a person uses his brain, questions pop up in his head. But what Quran 5:101-102 is saying is that don't use your brain…. because if you do, questions will pop up in your head. And of course the next thing you would do is try to look for answers in Quran….and the answers will trouble you! You would start thinking things like 'how could a true God say such a stupid/ evil thing'…. and you would end up realizing that Quran can't be from real God, and Muhammad can't be God's messenger. That is…. you will lose your faith!
Now tell me these ayats are not shocking!
ok thanks for pointing out my error!
In that case we should not discuss anything with her. She has no self-respect but we do! Why should we discuss intelligent things with her when she agrees she is deficient in intelligence!!
Bro.. he too know this, he is Zionist servant using article writing/blogging skills against Islam and making livelihood. How poor this guy.
90% Islamic scholars are innocent and Zionist dogs taking advantage of that. ONCE MUSLIM START READING QURAN FOR HIKMAT AND HIDAYAT NOT ONLY IBADAT. ISRAHELL WILL VANISH WITHIN ONE WEEK
Mr Filthy Demsci.. make connection between your filthy mouth and mind before commenting. Have you been to any Durga?. in India 90% Hindus usually go Dargah daily or weekly. Is not Islam secular?. Yeah you are right by using some techniques and advancement in sciences, these filthy dogs became a bit powerful and Muslims should start thinking "Fooling others only not haram. Getting Fooled also haram". Insha Allah this thug (Ali-sina) and its follower (Ali baba and 40 choor) will start try to attack more and more on Islam as their illegal fathers force them, they cannot pay if Muslim stay calm.
Sure,you too can take part playing with your AQA's (Zionist dogs).. lanaat on them
Hey dumboo, keep your views/freedom of thoughts/writings in your filthy ass. Now tell me if I praise to Hitler how Jews dog react?.
Here another Hyderabadi quote " Hum khaye tu shahed aur tum khai toh makki ka toilet". I have list of Zionists/Dajjal Followers sins and crimes against all humanity.
Ali sina dont forget that you have to die one day. Max you will live another 20-30 years. Be ready for the justice from Allah. I felt shock when I saw that graphic (Quran with one animal) on this shitty site.
Anybody who believes that is less gullible than the one who believes someone who claims to be "the best and final prophet, the light or 'nur' who traveled to heaven and the furthest mosque in the night to see god praying" without leaving his bed for a second, bla bla bla. Surprisingly many people have been fooled by such a lie which naturally should be scoffed at by kindergarten kids. There is even a whole book compiled containing such senless stuff pfft.
Bahais are not Muslim and follow no part of the Quran.
Try to play with your Islamic teachers and friends in the same way, contradicting, ridiculing THEM. Then come back and report on their reactions.
And yes, WE democratic citizens, many of us, CAN PLAY like you do here, contradicting and ridiculing, with OUR teachers and friends, and many of us do it, often, with impunity because of free speech.
Often our teachers and friends just shrug their shoulders when contradicted and ridiculed. It is because you are so young that you don't know this, I think.
//"You should say thanks to Muahmmed (SAW) for you livelihood. you are getting paid to scold and get scolded poor guy"//
So the Islamic teachers and leaders say thanks to the Zionist dogs for employing the Islamic scholars with scolding the Zionists?
//" I could not stop laughing by reading your **** against Mohammed salla hu alaiwa salm.."//
Yes, you laugh and ridicule, but that is all you can do. In the past, many Muslims, in power, used violence and oppression and censorship against anti-Islamist people like Ali Sina. Now, with democracy and police and internet so powerful, Muslims are severely restricted in violence.
So what do Muslims do now against Anti-Islamist people? They (only can) laugh, ridicule. It is quite a progress really.
//"But I believe you are unemployed, and you thought that Ali Sina has a firm to hire anyone with a talent of cursing Islam."//
By that logic, many of the Muslim teachers who ARE employed primarily stay in their job and propagate pro Islam because it is their livelyhood, income. And not because of any genuine conviction. If Islam loses, they lose. And Muslims keep them in business until death or retirement, even if Islam is not true.
//"would you believe just like that?"//
I agree with KTE. YOU believed, when you were a small child, just like that, Islamic stories. It is in your system. And now you may be smart and skeptic and making fun of the shortcomings in articles and the naivite of people who are prejudiced and gullible. But Islam first conquered you, as Ali Sina might have conquered you if he had been your father.
And you have shown sometimes that you believe in some conspiracy theories, rife in the Islamic world. But if you check sites that debunk them, you will realise how silly many of them are. I used to despair that so many people believed those hateful theories. Now I appreciate the people who refute them and enjoy their logic and arguments. As Ali Sina refutes so much wrong Islamic stories here so well.
@cchuckc
Of course (s)he has. What I am not convinced of is her/his claim of sincerety/ikhlaas. Ikhlaas means to have the intention of only Allah in one's acts of obedience. The motive must be only the Proximity and Pleasure of Allah. This motive must not be contaminated with personal motives of gain or the pleasure of others. (quoted from:  ;http://www.islaam.org/tasawwuf/Tasa_40.htm). Aiming to be a STAR is not a reflection of ikhlaas.
To us all Muslims are Muslims, whether they be Sunni, Shia, Ahmedi, Bahai, even Sufi, since they all believe Quran came from God! It is only Muslims (especially Sunnis) who call others munafiqs and attack/kill them, especially during Ramadan!
[" Stop spreading bull**** about Mohammed salla hu alwai sallam."]
This site is not spreading any bull**** about Muhammad. This site is only reporting the truth about what is written verbatim in Quran, hadiths, and Sira! It is the readers who realize that Muhammad's claims of prophethood were nothing but BS!
BTW people did not begin doubting Muhammad's claims yesterday. The ones with working brains have been doubting him since the days of Muhammad. Here is one example-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-3iSi2V3UE
Look Mr. CC(Chuthiya commenter) . I was feeling bore.. I have another one hour to time pass then my working hour will complete, I am just playing with idiots like you and Ali Sina.
@jussay
//Ohh really who said this your Rabbi or Ali Sina //
Muhammad (piss be upon him).
@jussay,
//sorry wrong this time you are a bit creative you used word everything before "you" //
Cant the same about you though. You appear just as brain dead as the other muslims who visit this site, except Narcole, who on comparison looks wee bit better these days.
Ohh really who said this your Rabbi or Ali Sina 😛
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa omg you made my day.,. I am laughing like hell. Again you made kiddish comment, copied my content and simply add tun najayz hooo.. AAAAAAAAAAAAAh sorry wrong this time you are a bit creative you used word everything before "you"
Ali-sina khush honga .. Inaam dega hahaaa
//I dont need to invest my time for this dimwit// What a fool. You are already investing your time here!!
//Regarding my Islam.. Alhamdulillah I am a SUNNI MUSLIM… //
One of the many sects of Islam all of which are on their way to Hell except Ahamadiyas, may be.. well perhaps they too are.
Russians were idiots, they attacked Germany, otherwise present scene would have different. All ISRAHELLIS were enjoying in hell along with their Rabbi
I dont need to invest my time for this dimwit(Ali sina).. Lol Zakir naik refused to debate?.. haha baby he said indirectly that Ali-sina can go to ISRAHELL and can wear Burkha(Veil to hide identity), even then he objected on some baseless things.
Regarding Alexa ranking I will offer my services free, present rank of this site around 200k, I can bring it to less than 100k or 50k within one month. Stop spreading bullshit about Mohammed salla hu alwai sallam.
if Ali Sina has guts then he can debate on live. Reading IP is not big deal anybody can do it is basic in networking,,, so why this Chuthiya afraid? Oh may be he canot get help from his countless fathers and lesbian mom
You idiot calls Jesus (son of bitch Astaghfurllah) now whole europe is your friend wowwwww, the same europe who dislike to shit in same hole of Jew used,
Regarding my Islam.. Alhamdulillah I am a SUNNI MUSLIM…
@jussay ,
Everything you do is najayaz. Including your children. Thanks for the confirmation. As far as I am concerned, my parents are God (not that ego-centric Allah) himself, I could never be najayaz.
@knowTheEnemy,
//Muhammad said Muslimahs are deficient in intelligence. //
Don't bother asking her. She has already confessed in another thread that she is indeed deficient in intelligence, she loses her mental balance when she is menstruating etc.
Tum hamari Najayz aulad hoo.. so obviously you hate us
This site is garbage. Ali Sina knows this but the blind readers do not.
@jussay
//I can pass my urine on that wall //
The Islamist are trying to do that for past 65 years. Result. Israel is still there. The wall is still very much there and the Middle East Islamist regimes don't have courage to do anything to them, much as they want.
["Lol reading this article is funny. if u read smeone online saying "im a rich smart handsome religious kind caring, honest humble funny generous and grateful" would you believe just like that? x'D who are you fooling, kindergarten kids??"]
Yet you believe Muhammad's asinine claims just like that! Why? ((Don't bother answering…. your response will be deficient in intelligence, and we don't want to waste our time reading it!))
@jussay
//Aap hi hai woh.. or same to you.//
You don't even know your hindi/Urdu. Suwar ho suwar hi rahoge.
narcole, Muhammad said Muslimahs are deficient in intelligence. So why should I waste my time debating with you??
Tell us that Muhammad was wrong about what he said regarding women, THEN I will discuss stuff with you!
Lol reading this article is funny. if u read smeone online saying "im a rich smart handsome religious kind caring, honest humble funny generous and grateful" would you believe just like that? x'D who are you fooling, kindergarten kids?? So many such articles here pfft
This life wasnt started from this site. so this life has right to analyze and compare everything.
["I do know about my Islam and world……."]
YOUR Islam? and YOUR world?? There is no YOUR Islam kid; there is ONLY Muhammad's Islam. The Sunna of Muhammad is Islam, and you believe in his (Muhammad's) Islam! You have no identity and no religion of your own! All that YOU are doing is keeping Muhammad's mental illness alive through YOUR body!
—————
["I read somewhere in this ****ty blog that Ali-Sina is Zionist and coward to debate with Zakir Naik, "]
Yeah you read crap somewhere but didn't do any research of your own. I can't blame you, you have been trained to blindly believe whatever you read! If you had done your own research, you would have found the following two links, and would have realized that it was Zakir Naik who is a coward and rufeses to debate Ali Sina.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/ZakirNaik.htm
http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/ZakirNaikp2.h…
(Actually, I wouldn't call Zakir a 'coward'. He is simply a smart showman and knows not to mess with people who will pop his hot-air balloon in no time. For him, it is much more safe to fool Muslims. )
—————–
[" I challenge you within 1-2 months I can bring Alexa rank less than your site(which took 6-8 years I believe)."]
And if you succeed then what would happen? Your reputation will shine all over the world?? Well instead of YOUR reputation, you need to worry about saving Muhammad's reputation and meet THIS challenge.
Before you get started on the challenge, I strongly recommend that you read Ali Sina's book "Understanding Muhammad and Muslims". If you don't want to buy it, write to Ali and he will e-mail you an older version for free.
Janab, I already said kids usually say.. Aap hi hai woh.. or same to you. You are another kid in this queue.
I do know about my Islam and world before Islam,don't teach me, just try to educate yourself. I read somewhere in this shitty blog that Ali-Sina is Zionist and coward to debate with Zakir Naik, I read all his kiddish condition. I challenge you within 1-2 months I can bring Alexa rank less than your site(which took 6-8 years I believe). And why dont I talk about Torah.. and that wall as soon another Sallahuddin Ayubi will conquer it. But honestly it is Islam which prevent me otherwise I can pass my urine on that wall
Actually it is Muhammad who says Thanks to Ali Sina five times a day because every time a Muslim leaves Islam, Muhammad's torture and pain in Hell is slightly reduced. Here is a short article with details-
http://alisina.org/blog/2013/07/21/why-muhammad-l…
If and when YOU study Islam with your brain switched ON, you too will see the truth and thank Ali for waking you up! Don't believe me? Go ahead, try it!
@jussay,
//Chutiya ki kami nahi duniya main, ek doondo hazar milte//
And some are found without even searching.. maslan aap janab
This site was not started to judge Torah or Bible. This site is meant only to discuss Quran, Muhammad, Islam, and their influence on believers! If you believe we are wrong about them, point out where we are wrong. And remember- unless you have as much knowledge of Islam as Islamic scholars, you will only suffer failures trying to convince us of anything!
If you want to discuss other religions and their religious books, go somewhere else!
Be ware of Dajjal (Anti-Christ) follower, surely he will go to Jahnum along with his dumboo supporters
your great fake scholar can debate on G_D of their zionist? hahaa I have countless list of mistakes in that book
Hey Mr. Dimwit(Ali Sina) the great idiot of this time, why dont you share your real identity?.We all know that you are just paid clown of Zionist dog.You should say thanks to Muahmmed (SAW) for you livelihood. you are getting paid to scold and get scolded poor guy
Great reply,..now all fools of this Paradise will vote up for you…. kids grow up and learn something new….I have 5years nephew who always says..same to you or it is you… 😛 I remember him when I read your FALTU comment.
I have tones of references on Taurah and Bible mistakes.Don't force me to pass urine on your holy wall 😛
["There was great Urdu Poet Mirza Ghalib, he said in urdu
"Chutiya ki kami nahi duniya main, ek doondo hazar milte""]
After reading your post we now know Ghalib was correct, because you are perfect example of one!
Assalam alaikum.. this is Sayeed and I am a Hyderabadi.. I could not stop laughing by reading your shit against Mohammed salla hu alaiwa salm.. I read somewhere that one Pakistani girl changed your life..blah.. blah .. so dear shit-eater(Ali Sina) I dont know whats your real name .. why dont you feel sorry for USA girls/women. Where everyday 12-15 women get raped. India where every 30 min one rape.
There was great Urdu Poet Mirza Ghalib, he said in urdu
"Chutiya ki kami nahi duniya main, ek doondo hazar milte"
Stop eating Muslim shits.. hey I forget to mention that NEO-Hitler getting raised again along with Neo-Ottoman. You ziionist pig…if you have really guts then share your real identity
@kismet,
//you would acted to solve your problem yourself and without asking for the help of Sina.//
So you are arguing that a scholar doesn't seek help, advice or suggestions from others? What a foolish conjecture. In that case there could be no true muslim scholar because they seek help from tafsirs et al.
@Guest,
//Sorry, you cannot convince me. //
I think (s)he has appropriately described what he meant by that phrase. His prerogative isn't to convince you.
Sorry, you cannot convince me. A star is a star, with fame and worldly gain. If you aim to be a star, your objective is to be famous and/or rich and get recognition from other human being. A sincere/ikhlaas student does not aim for stardom.
To the ex-muslim, I wish to congratulate u for coming out of hell.
Kismet, you know what actually smells? Dead dogs. Here's a quote from your Holy prophet:
—————-
Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.
Abu Dawud 1:66 , See Also Abu Dawud 1:67
———-
Hadiths are an important part of Islam and Abu Dawud is one of the six collections of Hadith. There's a lot of nice hadiths and verses. Continue to believe in Islam in order to get your imaginary 72 virgins.
@ Scholar,
your story smells. I will make it straight and direct, and tell you it is not true. If you were a scholar indeed, and realized suddenly that this is not your job, you would acted to solve your problem yourself and without asking for the help of Sina. But I believe you are unemployed, and you thought that Ali Sina has a firm to hire anyone with a talent of cursing Islam.
Mr Guest, as I said "My aim was to be a STAR in Islamic World … "
It doesn't mean that my Niyyah was wrong. I know that islamically my deeds are judged upon my intention. How can i aim to be a STAR without seeking the pleasure of my GOD?.
This sentence was to describe that i devoted my life completely in Studying Islam.
Just because my Niyyah/Ikhlaas, Allah guided me. Gave me the correct understanding of Islam and Quran. I got to know the truth. I realized the greatness of Allah and found that Islam cant be His religion and quran cant be His book.
My suggestion to my brother guest is to study islam with naked eyes and switching ON your BRAIN (which is the BIGGEST GIFT from Allah to judge what is truth), not with the commentary of Ulamas. They sugarcoat it so much that it does not resemble its truth.
Peace be on you
Mr. Ex-Muslim Scholar says: "My aim was to be a STAR in Islamic World … "
Not a scholar myself, but I believe that the aim of studying Islam should be to discover the greatness of Allah's revelation, and not to be a STAR in the Muslim world. My suggestion to Mr. Ex-Muslim Scholar is to return to the point where he began his journey and rectify his niyyah/intention/aim.
//Mr Ex-Muslim scholar, you may or may not be telling the truth, but from what I can read, you are an honest man. //
Can an honest man not tell the truth?
Your concern is understandable but each anti-islamic site has its own "personality".Some are impersonal,there to simply give information with out anyone interacting.Ali Sina shares his life experiences,which many of can relate to,especially muslims.That's what makes this site so unique.
Mr Ex-Muslim scholar – there are people studying very ancient written texts of the Koran, but they are not Muslims. But they are scholarly. And they believe the texts were written in other than Arabic, maybe Syrio-Aramaic. Obviously, Muslim scholars would reject any possible analysis. 10th century Alta-Bari recognised words from many cultures. Karl-Heinz Ohlig and Gerd-R Puin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKzXzCCVC1I if I can post a link.
Or Arabic teacher
Mr Ex-Muslim scholar, you may or may not be telling the truth, but from what I can read, you are an honest man.
Because of the cross-roads we are at in the so-called-western world, where there is a 'potential' clash of cultures on the horizon., there are plenty of jobs for a person with deep knowledge of Islam, and its writings. I don't think its that uncommon for a religious scholar, from any faith, to question their belief. In fact, I believe that Islam is the only one, where you are specifically commanded to not question it, as it is the perfect word of god. But this very questioning can allow religions to change and adapt, whereas Islam is non-changing, forever
It would indeed, be enlightening to hear why , in your heart, you decided to leave Islam, as these are the very reasons which would make other Muslims question, and ultimately leave, their faith. I may not be saying things in an academic way, and I may make mistakes, but I feel as you do, few people realise that the 'Descent to Hell' may be closer to us than we would like. As a message of hope for leavers and non-believers, your words are extremely encouraging. I wish you luck.
And you point is?
When you think you know everything you have learned nothing. The first step towards enlightenment is to admit that you still have a lot to learn.
I think this is Mr. Sina's point when he says that he has understanding but lacks knowledge.
Firstly, Ali Sina , good work. The Truth is the key that will unlock the door. People who blindly follow Allah, when they realise what kind of a man he truly was, will question the unquestionable, realise their humanity, and challenge their faith.
["They're not even debating him anymore."]
ha ha. Now they (Muslims) are seeing the light and ditching Islam! This article is a good example!
Muslims will kill Ali Sina if they know who he is.
Ali Sina has posted pictures of himself, so I think he's not too worry about his safety at this point. I think the last thing Muslims want is to drew more attention to his sites by harming him. They're not even debating him anymore.
Hello to you Mr. Ex-muslim scholar, great work on leaving Islam. That is a big achievement. If you are like 95% of human beings, you will get another profession and will eventually not care about the evils of Islam. If you are a little higher than average, you will get another profession and do some mediocre work against Islam. If you are very exceptional, you will do superb work against Islam. You're most welcome to try but the chances are you will end up not caring about Islam. You're in control of your own choices though so what you do is up to you. Dont fully depend on Ali (or anyone) for wisdom. Take everything with a grain of salt if its useful to you. Although Ali has done exceptional work against Islam, from my point of view some of his current beliefs are irrational for example: parallel universes, reincarnation, external consciousness, hostility/critical attitude towards skepticism and so on. Thats ok. Everyone has their own beliefs. But he respects your own choices and encourages you to believe in yourself and "find your own light" (as he says).
and sir please dont say that you have little knowledge i have read your debate with javed ghamidi your knowledge and your thinking is great if a person like joker naik can claim himself to be a scholar then you are a super scholar
ali sina sir please dont mention any details about your life in this article or any other i just read that many were trying to track down your IP address you can also check that sir please be careful
Since our nameless friend's English is so good, he can be an English teacher to earn a living.
Leave the broken, irreversible past in God's hands, and step out into the invincible future with Him. -Oswald Chambers
Isa Upanishad
Peace Chant
OM! That (the Invisible–Absolute) is whole; whole is this (the visible phenomenal); from the Invisible Whole comes forth the visible whole. Though the visible whole has come out from that Invisible Whole, yet the Whole remains unaltered. OM! PEACE! PEACE! PEACE!
The indefinite term “That” is used in the Upanishads to designate the Invisible–Absolute, because no word or name can fully define It. A finite object, like a table or a tree, can be defined; but God, who is infinite and unbounded, cannot be expressed by finite language. Therefore the Rishis or Divine Seers, desirous not to limit the Unlimited, chose the indefinite term “That” to designate the Absolute. In the light of true wisdom the phenomenal and the Absolute are inseparable. All existence is in the Absolute; and whatever exists, must exist in It; hence all manifestation is merely a modification of the One Supreme Whole, and neither increases nor diminishes It. The Whole therefore remains unaltered.
I
All this, whatsoever exists in the universe, should be covered by the Lord. Having renounced (the unreal), enjoy (the Real). Do not covet the wealth of any man. We cover all things with the Lord by perceiving the Divine Presence everywhere. When the consciousness is firmly fixed in God, the conception of diversity naturally drops away; because the One Cosmic Existence shines through all things. As we gain the light of wisdom, we cease to cling to the unrealities of this world and we find all our joy in the realm of Reality.
The word “enjoy” is also interpreted by the great commentator Sankaracharya as “protect,” because knowledge of our true Self is the greatest protector and sustainer. If we do not have this knowledge, we cannot be happy; because nothing on this external plane of phenomena is permanent or dependable. He who is rich in the knowledge of the Self does not covet external power or possession.
II
If one should desire to live in this world a hundred years, one should live performing Karma (righteous deeds). Thus thou mayest live; there is no other way. By doing this, Karma (the fruits of thy actions) will not defile thee. If a man still clings to long life and earthly possessions, and is therefore unable to follow the path of Self–knowledge (Gnana–Nishta) as prescribed in the first Mantram (text), then he may follow the path of right action (Karma–Nishta). Karma here means actions performed without selfish motive, for the sake of the Lord alone. When a man performs actions clinging blindly to his lower desires, then his actions bind him to the plane of ignorance or the plane of birth and death; but when the same actions are performed with surrender to God, they purify and liberate him.
III
After leaving their bodies, they who have killed the Self go to the worlds of the Asuras, covered with blinding ignorance. The idea of rising to bright regions as a reward for well–doers, and of falling into realms of darkness as a punishment for evil–doers is common to all great religions. But Vedanta claims that this condition of heaven and hell is only temporary; because our actions, being finite, can produce only a finite result. What does it mean “to kill the Self?” How can the immortal Soul ever be destroyed? It cannot be destroyed, it can only be obscured. Those who hold themselves under the sway of ignorance, who serve the flesh and neglect the Atman or the real Self, are not able to perceive the effulgent and indestructible nature of their Soul; hence they fall into the realm where the Soul light does not shine. Here the Upanishad shows that the only hell is absence of knowledge. As long as man is overpowered by the darkness of ignorance, he is the slave of Nature and must accept whatever comes as the fruit of his thoughts and deeds. When he strays into the path of unreality, the Sages declare that he destroys himself; because he who clings to the perishable body and regards it as his true Self must experience death many times.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, thanks for your love encouragement. Indeed, God is Love. John 1:29 "Behold, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world." I like to dedicate this song to you. Cheers. 🙂 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW7UgzFG4v4
I am so sorry to hear that Agracean. This is a horrible story. No matter what you are a precious soul in the eyes of God and even though your brain was hurt and may have lost some of its functionality your consciousness is intact and healthy. We come to this world for one thing alone and that it to love. If you can love everyone, you have fulfilled the purpose of your life. The rest is secondary, actually completely irrelevant.
Dear Ms Dr Ali Sina, thank God that you survived the fall and that you have such a good, loving, caring and understanding parents by your side, to see you through life's up and down. I injured my head when I was 6 years old then, playing with a few neighbourhood kids, in a farm. We were carrying a plough high above our head, when suddenly, they let it go and that heavy wooden stick landed on my little head. It hit the center of my head and blood was oozing out. The neighbours were afraid and they merely wash my head clean and stopped the bleeding. My parents were ignorant of my head injury, they merely apply some ointment on it, thinking that it was just a minor cut. But I knew that this head injury has somehow altered my normal brain function since then.
Well, what can I say except… This is cool! 😀