Ali Sina vs. Sheila Musaji
Even though Sheila Musaji refuses to interact with me directly, apparently she reads my responses and your comments and responds on her site. She does not think it is necessary to let me know that she has responded. That is okay. Now that I know how she likes to interact, I will search her site to see her responses.
(If you have not been following this debate please start with An Olive Branch For Sheila Musaji)
Ms. Musaji commented also on my discussion with the Rabbis. She quoted my initial passages where I said much of the intolerance of Islam is owed to the intolerance in the Old Testament. She then wrote:
Sounds as if he is not only Islamophobic, but also anti-Semitic. And, a little later in this article this gem appears which shows that at the very least, he is a racist: We Persians are of the same genetic stock as Germans and we had a far superior civilization than Arabs.
It seems that Ms. Musaji has some difficulty in comprehension. I am against Islam. That does not make me Islamophobic. Islamophobia is a fallacy. You can say Islam-hater. That I agree. But one can’t be “phobic” of a belief. This is a deception. But as Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s propaganda minister said, if a lie is repeated often it will be believed as truth eventually. A good example is “homophobia.” This is a fallacy. Homosexuality is a disorder no different from eating disorder or a personality disorder. Homosexuality is a sexual disorder, like sadomasochism, fetishism, zoophilia and pedophilia. Now these disorders are not all the same and have different implications, but they are all disorders. I am not a homophobe for considering homosexuality a disorder. Homo means same. I don’t have an irrational fear of men. But this lie was repeated so much that today most people have fallen for it. The idea was to stifle any criticism about this subject and they succeeded. It is a tyrany of thought. All totalitarian systems are fascitic and want to control and manipulate your thoughts Now they even have gay pride parades, as if there is something to be proud of a disorder. This is how masses are manipulated through propaganda. They shame you into silence. Few people dare to say homosexuality is not normal. If they do, they will be called biggots. They even gave it a chichi name: “gay”, meaning happy. This is also a lie. Homosexuals are not happy.
Muslims are using the same deceptive tactic. They want to stifle the legitimate discussion about Islam. So they invented this lie and with the help of their leftist lackeys who gave us the fallacy of homophobia they will repeat it until it is seen as truth. But Islam is an ideology. No one can have an irrational fear of an ideology. You can strongly disagree with an ideology and you can even hate it, but you can’t be phobic of it. Ideologies don’t have fangs. It is their believers who may have fangs. Now, it would be more logical to say Muslimphobia. Muslims can hurt you. If you see a group of Muslims coming out of a mosque, you would be wise to run as fast as you can. This poor Hindu in Bangladesh was not Muslimphobic. He passed in front of a mosque when the worshippers of Allah had just finished their Friday prayer and were coming out of it. They grabbed him, they dragged him inside the mosque, they beat him until he died.
It is a fact that people are developing Muslimphobia. They are not becoming Muslimphobic because of what I write, but because of what Muslims do.
What is the best representative of Islam? The Quran or Muslims? Of course every Muslim will agree that the Quran is the best representative of Islam and Muslims don’t represent Islam at all. Well I have a copy of the Quran on my shelf next to me. I am not afraid of it. But I will be afraid if a Muslim shows up in front of my door. I think this is true for everybody. So it is clear that Islamophobia is a lie. Muslimphobia is debatable, because phobia is irrational fear and there is nothing irrational about fearing Muslims.
Musaji also calls me anti-Semitic. Why? Just because I exposed two hatemongering rabbis and showed the nonsense written in the Bible? She is incapable to distinguish beliefs from people. I am a Zionist. I have defended the rights of the Jews as a people to go back to their ancestral land and be left alone. Israel was a historic necessity. What happened in Europe seventy years ago to this people would never have happened had they had a place to call home where they could take refuge. Many of them sailed to other countries but were denied entry. Six million of them were gassed and incinerated. We cannot allow that kind of holocaust again and that is why Israel exists.
Today that the number of Muslims in the west is on the rise, Jews are again under attack. This time the treat to their lives comes from Muslims. That is why Israel is necessary and as long as there are Muslims, Israel must be protected.
Now, let me make a concession. If one day all Muslims give up following Muhammad and give up their natural hatred of the Jews, I will no longer see a need for Israel. On that day we all can live in harmony and peace.
But being a Zionist does not mean I agree with the Bible. Why should I? That is a book of fables. Adhering to it makes people biggoted and hate mongers like those two rabbis. Blind faith makes one intolerant.
I care about people’s rights, not about their beliefs. I don’t care about any belief, not even mine. You are most welcome to attack my belief. Beliefs don’t have a right. Humans have rights. And the foremost of all human rights is freedom of conscience, which cannot exist without freedom of speech. People are free to believe in what they want and criticize what they want. This is the foundation of freedom. Without the freedom to criticize beliefs there is no freedom.
You also called me racist because I said we Persians had a superior civilization to Arabs. Again you are engaging in a logical fallacy. You want to equate cultures with people. Some cultures are not culture at all. They are barbarity. A “culture” that practices stoning, amputates the limbs of common thieves, beheads its detractors, considers the minorities as second class citizens, regards its women as sex object and calls them awrat (walking-talking vagina), is not equal to a culture that upholds equality for all its people, irrespective of their faith or gender and practices democracy and freedom.
All cultures are not equal. Cultural relativism is another leftist fallacy. We Persians had a much more superior culture than the Arabs. But after the invasion of Islam we were reduced into barbarians. We became like them. Now we are all barbarians. The first charter of human rights was written in Persia more than 2500 years ago. Today Iran is one of the top violators of human rights. If not to Islam to what else shall we attribute this devolution?
It is not racist to say Muslims are savages any more than to say Nazis were savages. Islam is an ideology. It is not hacked into our genes. We can give it up and regain our civility. That is the whole purpose of what I do. Muslims are drowning in the cesspool of Islam. Just look at the pictures of Muslims when protesting in the streets. If not savages what they are. Are they civil? Is this what civilized people do? I want to pull them out of Islam and restore their civility and their humanity. Yes they are not even human anymore.
Most Jews have given up their belief in the nonsense of their religion a long time ago. Most of them don’t believe in religion anymore. Those who do are like those rabbis, filled with bigotry and hate. But they are the minority. Even when Jews go to synagogues it is for ceremonies. Religion can be a cohesive force. It brings out the spirit of fraternity and builds community.
The thinking Jews take the Bible with a lot of salt. I don’t object to that kind of religion. I know many Jews, Christians, Hindus and people of other faiths that are beacons of light. I don’t agree with their religions, but they are my brothers and sisters in humanity. If people believe in goodness, if they promote unity among all people, if they don’t discriminate against others on the basis of what they believe, they are my brothers. Those two rabbis don’t represent the Jews. Several Jews wrote to me and said that those guys are not even Jews. They are messianic Jews. In other words they are Christian evangelists posing as Jews to convert other Jews to Christianity. If they are really disciples of Jesus, they are doing him a great disservice.
You may say there are many Muslims who are moderate too. Yes there are, but the problem is that they, and if not they, their children are at risk to revert to the pure Islam of Muhammad and that is when they become dangerous. I am not saying good humans among Muslims don’t exist. Of course they do. Somone mentioned Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam who was the president of India as an example of a “good Muslim.” Dr. Abdul Kalam is not a good Muslim. He is a good human. In fact he is a very bad Muslim. Khomeini was a good Muslim. There are many good people born among Muslims who even think they are Muslim but they are wonderful human beings. However, if you examine their lives you’ll see that they violate the teachings of Muhammad. They use their own conscience as compass and not the Quran and the Hadith. They are good people because they are bad Muslims. The reverse is also true. The more a person tries to follow Islam and emulate Muhammad the more evil he becomes.
People of other faiths don’t believe that their scriptures are the verbatim words of God – I mean the thinking people. Jews and Christians believe that the Bible was written by inspired men. When you read the Bible it is clear that it does not claim to be the word of God. This allows the believers of these faiths to use their own judgment and reject the parts of the Bible that are not savory. Jews don’t practice stoning. As far as we know they haven’t been practicing this barbaric law for over 2000 years. Christians don’t regard women as inferior even though Paul made it clear that they are. Muslims don’t have this luxury. The Quran is considered to be the verbatim word of God and you can’t deviate from it. If you do for a time, it will be short lived. The mullahs can remind the Muslims that they are deviating from the Quran and Islamic extremism will be resurected.
Islam cannot be reformed. You can use it less but you can’t change it. It is like urine in drinking water. Any amount of it is toxic. In less doses it does not kill you. But the wretched Umma has been sick for 1400 years for drinking this urine. Even though Muslims have not always been as savages as they are today, they have never been civilized. The difference between you Ms. Musaji, and the types of Bin Laden is not in principle but in degree. They want the urine of Islam as pissed by Muhammad unadulterated and in its pure state, while you want it diluted with Americanism. You can’t stomach the pure Islam. To their credit they are not hypocrite, but you are. If Islam is divine why do you want to mix it with American values? Just stick to what the Quran says and Muhammad did. Bin Laden was sincer about his faith. You are not.
Criticizing cultures and beliefs is not racism. There is nothing racist in criticizing a culture that believes in slavery, practices misogyny, thinks women are deficient in intelligence and does not allow them equal rights in the court of law, in inheritance or in marriage. It is okay to denounce a culture that says don’t take people of other faith as friends and leaders (awlia). It is not racism to say Muhammad was a psychopath like Jim Jones and Hitler, don’t follow that criminal.
So as you see I am not a racist for saying Islam is savagery and I am not an anti-Semite for saying the Torah is a book of fables.
Today I had a sad revelation. My neighbor is out of town and he asked me to take care of his chickens. Every morning I let the birds out of their coop and throw on the ground a handful of grains. He said this is their treat. There are a dozen of hens and a rooster. I noticed, while the hens run to eat their treat as fast as they can, the rooster stands by and does not eat. At times he shows his hens where they can find more grains. He himself does not eat the treat. I was amazed to see these animals, of which we think so little and abuse them so inhumanely, have such a tender feelings for each other. While contemplating on the love these birds have for each other, my heart was filled with sadness by memories of my days living in Pakistan. I lived in Peshawar. This is the most Islamic town of Pakistan. When the Pashtoons invited me to their home, men and boys sat around the food and ate while women and girls stayed in the kitchen. Sometimes they peeped to see when we are done so they can take the leftover to the kitchen and eat their share. I thought to myself, there is more chivalry, more nobility and more humanity in this rooster than in some of us humans.
But why these people treated their women in such a way? If you read the Sira you’ll see this was the tradition of Muhammad. This is not culture. This is savagery. This savagery comes to Muslims through Muhammad and his mysogynistic teachings.
Let us continue:
It is both surprising and not surprising that Ali Sina has now been named to the Board of Directors of the newly formed Stop the Islamization of Nations SION which is a coalition SIOA, SIOE, and other hate groups, and which will be led by Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. It is not surprising because of the animosity towards Islam that he shares with Geller and Spencer. It is surprising because of the fact that Geller herself is Jewish, and Ali Sina seems to have as much animosity towards Judaism as he does against Islam.
Perhaps this is above your ken but what unites Pamela Geller (a Jew), Robert Spencer (a Catholic), Wafa Sultan (a secular humanist), Babu Suseelan (a Hindu) ,and yours truly, is our humanity. We have different beliefs, but we don’t allow that to divide us. To a Muslim this might be incomprehensible. You see the world divided on religious lines. We don’t see it that way. We see all mankind as members of one gigantic human family. We have different tastes in politics and in religion. But we never let them come between us and divide us.
I receive many emails from youths who say they no longer believe in Islam and want to become Christian. I never discourage them. Let me quote what I wrote to one such youth yesterday.
This 22 year old Somali woman wrote to Pamela Geller and told her that she wants to be a Christian. She added, “However, i know that if my family [comes to] know about this they will surely end my life since it will bring them shame in our community. Once my father found a bible in my drawer and he told me that if he founds it there again he will do something to me that i will regret forever. I feel unsafe here and am looking for a way out please help me before it is too late.”
Pamela asked me to reply and here is a few passages from my email to her:
“Faith is a very personal matter. It is a relationship you have with your God. No one can take it away from you and you don’t have to speak about it to anyone. Jesus did not start a new religion. He wants to have a personal relationship with you. As long as you have him in your heart, he is with you even if you don’t attend any church or interact with other Christians.
If you live in your parent’s home, you need to live by their rules. Don’t keep a Bible at home and don’t have any cross or anything that may make them think you are a Christian. You don’t need to do any baptism either. Love of God is your baptism. Soon you will be out of your parent’s home and will be more independent.
…
Meanwhile I suggest you act with caution. Time will pass fast. Study hard and get the best education you can. Education is your key to freedom. If you have a good education you can get hired sooner and afford getting out of your parental home faster. You may even go and live in another city or another country.
If you want to read the Bible you can find it online. If you want to discuss your faith with anyone you can find Christian communities online. Don’t share your thoughts with anyone. Study, study and study! This is the fastest way to your freedom.”
Pamela is a Jew and I am a humanist. But neither of us discouraged this girl from following the path that she had chosen for herself. We don’t care about people’s faiths. We care about their lives. We don’t divide mankind along religious lines. There is no such thing as believers/unbelievers, the faithful and the kafir in our lexicon. What matters, is our humanity and what makes us human is not what we believe, but how we live.
You are a Muslim. You are genuinely incapable to see that we are humans first, and religion is nothing compared to the strong string of humanity that runs through the core of all of us and binds us together like the beads in a rosary. You see the world from the tainted glasses of Islam. What you don’t know is that those glasses come from the mind of a psychopath narcissist. Islam is insanity. This is not an insult. This is my thesis and I have proven it. Read my book and you too will agree.
You then continued:
The Southern Poverty Law Center published a report citing Geller for hate speech. The AFDI has been named a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. The American Freedom Defense Initiative is the parent group of the SIOA. Spencer, Geller, and Yerushalmi are featured in the SPLC reports Jihad Against Islam and The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle.
Yes I know. These traitorous leftist organizations are your lackeys. What unites them with you Muslims is your common hatred of the Judeo-Christian western values. But they are stupid. They think by supporting fellow haters of the western values they will be stronger and you will help them to come to power. All they have to do to see their folly is to talk to fellow commies from Iran. Let them talk with Maryam Namazi from UK. Namazi and her comrades were instrumental in the revolution of 1979 in Iran. They threw their lot with Islamists. But they were the first who were eliminated when Khomeni took power. If Islam ever comes to power in Europe or in America, all those left leaning organization that today defend Islam will be the first to be eliminated. Those who don’t read the history, tend to repeat the same errors.
Pamela Geller and her organizations don’t become hate groups just because a bunch of moon-bat leftists says so. Pamela has demonstrated her compassion and care for countless hapless and helpless young Muslims whose own families have turned against them. Young Muslims write to her from all over the world asking for help. This woman should be awarded the Nobel Prize for her humanitarianism and for her compassion. Alas the Nobel Prize committee is so politicized that they think charlatans like Arafat, Obama and Al Gore are more deserving for that prize than good humans who truly serve mankind.
One of the saddest stories is when Gore was granted the Nobel Prize for lying about global warming there was a 92 years woman named Irene Sendler, who was also a nominee. She had saved some 2,500 Jewish children from the Nazi Holocaust by smuggling them out of Warsaw Ghetto, in her basket. I felt a lump in my throat when I read her story and that instead of her the committee chose this filty liar.
I don’t give a damn about those organizations calling Pamela Geller a hate monger. I can see how much she cares about people. I saw how she took to heart the case of Rifqa Bari and protected that beautiful soul when her parents wanted to kill her.
Where were you to protect Rifqa? Why young Muslims don’t write to YOU to protect them from their families and write to Pamela? Because they know you are a hypocrite Islamist and all you care is your damn religion, but Pamela is a humanitarian who cares about them and is not concerned about what religion they believe. I have seen people write to her and say they want to stay Muslim but just want to be free from the tyranny of their parents and Pamela still advised them compassionately and tried to help them without ever telling them they should leave Islam first.
Pay Pal at least temporarily suspended Geller’s site Atlas Shrugs for being a hate site.
Sure! They did it because a bunch of Muslims like you lied about her and libled her of spreading hate. When Pay Pal realized they had been duped they reversed their decision.
You then said
Spencer and Geller attempted to patent the SIOA trademark, but were refused by the U.S. patent office The government response, posted on the site, states, “The applied-for mark refers to Muslims in a disparaging manner because by definition it implies that conversion or conformity to Islam is something that needs to be stopped or caused to cease.”
That is because our Governments are misled. They consider Islam a religion and as such it is protected. That is why we formed SION (Stop Islamization Of Nations) to educate and to unmask Islam. Islam is not just a religion. It is more a political ideology of domination. It must be classified as such. It is more akin to communism and Nazism than it is to other faiths. Muhammad said al Islamo deenun wa dawla (Islam is both religion and government.) One cannot be separated from another. This is what people don’t know. It will take some time to make the world aware of it. But we are patient and determined. More prominent people are joining SION from all over the world. We are poised to become a powerful international force. And we will go after traitors who sell their country for vote. We will expose them. We know that anytime a politician supports Islam we have to follow the money trail to find a skeleton in their closet. That is what we intend to do.
The Center for American Progress released a groundbreaking report Fear Inc.: The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America. The key researchers for this report were Wajahat Ali, Eli Clifton, Matthew Duss, Lee Fang, Scott Keyes, and Faiz Shakir. The report itself is the result of a six month investigative project, and is 132 pages in length. Geller is cited as part of this network.
Oh really!? So a bunch of Muslims and their minions got together and cited Geller as Islamophobe? And what else is new? I repeated many times that Islamophobia is a fallacy. Geller is a defender of the Western civilization.
Musaji quotes several other organizations that are either run by Muslims or are sympathetic to Islam that denounce the critics of Islam as “Islamophobe”. In her opinion this is “evidence.” In Persian we have a saying: They asked the fox who will testify on your behalf, he said my tail. Or better than that is when Allah backs up Muhammad. Who gives a damn if Muslims and their minions call us hate monger? This is circular reasoning. I talk about facts and I have shown that we are not hate mongers, but Muslims are.
Update 1/28/2012
The following is my response to Sheila Musaji’s response to me dated 1/26/2012.
Despite the fact that I almost always addressed her directly, Musaji never addressed me directly. This lady’s heart is so much filled with hatred of me that she can’t bring herself to call me by my name and speak to me directly. That is fine. I will speak to her directly. I have no hatred for her. She is only a misguided soul.
Dear Ms. Musaji,
I wrote a long response and asked you specific questions. For example when you said “I strongly uphold freedom of faith,” I asked you to explain the wars of apostasy in Islam and the actions of Muhammad, the Guided Caliphs, and the practice of killing the apostates in all the history of Islam and all Muslim countries. You ignored the subject altogether.
You quoted the verse 2:256 where it says there is no compulsion in religion, but ignore me when I quoted several other verses that say kill those who don’t believe. I asked you to explain the discrepancy and you chose to ignore that too.
I showed how Mawdudi has resolved the apparent contradiction and has shown that the verse about “no compulsion in religion” is just a misunderstanding. You ignored that too.
I told you about my neighbors’ rooster who in my opinion has more chivalry, more nobility and more humanity in the way he treats his hens than many Muslims who treat women so badly and I showed that this misogyny among Muslims is because of the teachings and examples of Muhammad. You ignored the subject altogether.
My response contained many important points that you ignored. Instead you took an issue when I said you have dedicated your entire energy in maligning the critics of Islam and said that had I looked more carefully I would have seen that you also write about other subjects.
Yes you are right. I take that back. You also write about other subjects. Probably I should have been more careful in the choice of my words and should have said you dedicate MOST of your energy in maligning the critics of Islam. I apologize for that. You do indeed write about other thing.
Well, when you are right, you are right. I acknowledge my error. Will you do the same? Are you capable of acknowledging your errors?
You wrote:
“On TAM, we regularly call out those within the Muslim community that I identify as the “lunatic fringe”, discuss various interpretations of aspects of Sharia, condemn any interpretations that violate human rights.
Good! I am happy to hear that you do that. But what if those whom you identify as “lunatic fringe” are the ones who understands Islam correctly? What if Islam and human rights are not compatible? Why is it that the ones who are more dedicated to Islam and try to practice it best are the ones that violate human rights? Could it be that there is something in Islam that contradicts human rights?
Let us see a few examples:
According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, men and women have equal rights. Please note that functions and rights are not the same. Does Islam recognize the equal rights between man and woman? It doesn’t. I already mentioned a few examples and I can show you dozens more.
According to the UDHR all people have equal rights? Does Islam agree with this?
In Saudi Arabia the blood money for a person depends on his or her religion and gender. Here is a break down:
- 100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
- 50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
- 50,000 riyals if a Christian man
- 25,000 riyals if a Christian woman
- 6,666 riyals if a Hindu man
- 3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman
According to this hierarchy, a Muslim man’s life is worth 33 times that of a Hindu woman. This hierarchy is based on the Islamic definition of human rights and is rooted in the Quran and the Sharia. It can be found on The Risala of ‘Abdullah ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (310/922 – 386/996), A Treatise on Maliki Fiqh. You can read the full text here.
Do you agree with this hierarchy? This is the concept of the human rights in Islam. This is the interpretation of Muslim scholars of the Quran and there is consensus. Is this your understanding of human rights? And if not on what basis you propose to change it?
The UDHR and the Islamic human rights are not the same. Based on the former, the latter is in violation. Which one you uphold?
You bragged that you converted to Islam 40 years ago and presented your conversion as evidence that there is no compulsion in conversion. I pointed out that everyone does silly things when they are young and the conversion of an inexperienced young woman is hardly a valid evidence of the truth of things that she embraces. You did not give any objective evidence to the truth of Islam. You presented you own conversion as evidence. But the conversion of a young girl can be subjective. It’s of no value to others. Then you get upset when I scuff at it as evidence. You say “This is simply a nasty, speculative, and meaningless attack on me as an individual that deserves nothing but contempt.” If you are so sensitive about it, you should not have presented it as evidence.
In this response you answered none of my arguments. You ignored my questions altogether. The only thing you talked about is how your petal delicate sensitivity was hurt when I scuffed at your evidence. Your conversion is meaningless to us. Even the conversion of a learned and wise person is meaningless, let alone the conversion of a young girl who may have converted because she had fallen in love with a Muslim guy.
So basically your response had no answers. But you had to say something. So you quoted two commentators, Sundried Atheist and Enlightened 25 to find me guilty by association.
These two individuals are not my disciples. In fact I have had several encounters with them and have chided both of them. They are more disciples of Richard Dawkins. That is why I don’t share the views of Prf. Dawkins because I see the fruit and I don’t like it. Both these individuals are anti-Semites and the former person actually thinks women should cover themselves. So go figure. They have nothing of me.
Then you wrote another article on 1/28/2012 in response to my long article (above). But you say nothing there either. You don’t address any of the arguments or bother to answer any of my questions. You merely quoted a few of my passages and summarize:
“Here is the gist of his argument: I hate Islam, but that is not Islamophobia. I believe that “Muslims are savages”, but I am not a bigot. I believe that “Homosexuality is a sexual disorder, like sadomasochism” but I am not homophobic. I believe that Judaism is a religion of “nonsense”, those who believe in it are “filled with bigotry and hate”, but I am not an anti-Semite. I believe that my culture is superior to others, but I am not a racist. Terms like Islamophobia or homophobia are lies, there is no such thing. I am sorry, but there is such a thing as anti-Semitism, there is such a thing as Islamophobia, there is such a thing as homophobia, there is such a thing as racism. You can object to the use of one or all of those words, but the bottom line is that no matter what you call this ideology, it is hateful bigotry.”
Looks like my suspicion about your difficulty to comprehend things is correct. A child understands what I wrote but you didn’t. Let me repeat.
Hating Islam does not make one Islamophobe because this word is a fallacy. One cannot fear an ideology. One cannot be a Christianophobe for example. What part of this you don’t understand?
To say Muslims are savages is stating the obvious. Stating the truth does not make one a bigot. Isn’t stoning savagery? Don’t Muslims practice stoning? There are many other Islamic practices that prove Islam is savagery. What part of this you don’t understand?
Homosexuality is a disorder and homophobia is a lie. I have no fear of men and not even of homosexuals. I don’t see homosexuality as something shameful, in the same way I don’t see obesity as something shameful. But both obesity and homosexuality are disorders. What part of this you don’t understand?
I am a Zionist. I have defended Israel since always, even before I denounce Islam. But like Einstein and Espinosa and multitude other Jewish thinkers, I don’t believe in the fables of the Bible. Would you say that Einstein was an anti-Semite? Religion and people are two different things. I am with the people, but I don’t care about beliefs. What part of this you don’t understand?
I did not say my culture is superior to others. You truly have a very poor comprehension. I said Iranian culture was superior to Arab culture before we were invaded by the marauding Muslims. Today, thanks to Islam we are just as barbarians as our invaders. Why recognizing that some cultures are superior to others would make one a racist? Can’t you see the difference between race and culture?
And yes both Islmaophobia and homophobia are lies. Repetition does not make them true. What part of this you don’t understand?
You ignored all my arguments and when you responded, you made it clear that you have a poor comprehension. You are no scholar dear Sheila Musaji. You are not an intellectual and you are not even intelligent. You are the fifth column that aims to “eliminate and destroy the Western civilization from within and sabotage their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all religions.”
I don’t think you will respond. I think by now you must have realized that I destoryed you. The more you write the more you expose your vulnerability. But in case you decide to respond, please go to the bathroom and cough strongly. See if you can spit out that hatred that you have for me out of your chest and then go back and read what I wrote from the beginning.
This debate continues here
ya..ya..ya..blah..blah..blah..blah..just wait until you all die..then you will know that whatever that you've wrote is false-? however, thank you very much for showing your true color. ISLAM IS THE BEST! ALLAH IS GREAT ND MUHAMMAD S.A.W. IS THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH S.W.T!
According to Islam a true muslim is the one who follows Quran completely. APJ abdul Kalam has a muslim name, but, he is not a muslims becoz he doesn't follow Quran. That's why he is such a nice man. Muslims who follow Quran are intolerant and look for faults in every other religion.
the Best article ever read about Religious beliefs n freedom of conscience……
This was only a pretext, an excuse to raid the Bani Lihyan. Muhammad’s only intention was to raid and loots and sought any excuse to do that and when he could find none, he would claim that Gabriel informed him that so and so tribe was about to attack him.
If I may answer this question.
Wikipedia is full of information given to them. World wide we have developed somewhat of an apologetic culture towards Islam. In order to keep peace with muslims historians from the west have rarely publicly accused Early Islam of such horrors. Often historians have taken little information from fact and just carbon copied what they were told by Biased Muslims. Most Muslims are so brainwashed about their religion that they choose to believe these sugar coated versions then the real deal. They justify it in a variety of imaginative ways. Ali Sina has gone past these versions and taken his thoughts from Islam's own historic resources which are hadith. For instance the story of the jewish tribal chiefs daughter who was forced to marry Mohammad after he killed her whole family and was given an ultimatum (be a slave with your people or marry me and I will set your people free). Most muslims love to say that she embraced Islam whole heartedly but any normal person with common sense knows that consumating her marriage would have been distasteful to any women so soon after such a loss. It seems an unfair conclusion by brainwashed companions of the Prophet that she accepted Islam with an open heart but more out of sheer terror for her fellow tribal members. Yet, sadly, we never hear any muslim scholar give mention as to this possibility.
Khabbab ibn al-aratt, Abu Fakih and AbuFuhayra were slaves! And like many slaves badly treated! However it is interesting to note that the Prophet at the time of his conversion spoke about freedom from oppression and then went on to allow slavery within his own religion after he had converted the poor souls.
In any case converting to Islam was a good thing for them because it freed them from their oppressors and at the time of gaining followers Islam was welcoming and "helpful" to people in order to gain their trust and loyalty. Abu Fuhayra was sent and abused by the Banu Lihyan. There story goes something like this:
"A case in point was the campaign of Banu Lihyan.Six months after the destruction of Banu Qurayzah, it came to Muhammad's notice that the Banu Lihyan were marching from a locality near Makkah. Immediately, he remembered the case of Khubayb ibn `Adiy and his companions, who were murdered by Banu Lihyan at the well of al Raji two years ago, and sought to avenge them. However, he did not announce his purpose for fear that the enemy might be alerted and take refuge. He therefore announced that he wanted to go to al Sham and, after mobilizing his forces, he led them toward the north. When he felt secure that neither the Quraysh nor their neighbors were aware of his intentions, he turned to Makkah and proceeded in its direction full haste until he reached the camping grounds of the tribe of Banu Lihyan at `Uran. Some people, however, had noticed his change of direction, and eventually the Banu Lihyan were informed of his plan.They took refuge in the heights of the surrounding mountains, gathering with them their cattle and property. The Prophet, therefore, could not reach them. He sent Abu Bakr and a hundred cavalrymen in hot pursuit until they reached a place not far from Makkah called `Usfan. " http://www.scribd.com/doc/16211747/363/The-Campai…
Interestingly we can see that this was a pure revenge trip rather then an offering of peace! It was deceptive, manipulative and without good reason from a Prophet of God!
You should read his (A P J Abdul Kalam) Biography, you wil get to know,HIs spent his childhood in a vicinity of hindu temple and he is very much influenced with hindu philosphy.In one interview he told once that the concept of missile comes from the hinduism concept of 'ASTRA.'
"The only reason that it [homosexuality] was ever considered a disorder is because of the evil Christians getting a strangle hold on the sciences."
This is nonsense talk. For it to make sense, Christians should have regarded homosexuality a disease before science became active as a full fledged world view. They did not. It was not a Christian, but a materialistically based idea that turned homosexuality into a disease.
The conception of homosexuality as a 'state' was not even made up before the 19th century. This means that before that, people, including Christians, did not consider that a person could 'be' homosexual at all. They only considered acts. Sex was something you did, not something you were. They did not see it as reflecting a particular identity or state to have sex with someone of your own sex. Christians did at some points consider this act sinful and/or a criminal offense – but, mind you, not in all historical periods. In the early middle ages, people could even be blessed in a church ceremony as 'life partners' of the same sex… History is sometimes more complex than one's hate images.
Ali Sina! Like To Work Wihe You
You are confusing knowing with believing. You don’t know of the existance of Allah, you just believe he exists. Knowledge should be based on facts.
知 者 不 言 ， 言 者 不 知 。
I am thankful to know the existence of Allah (SWT). Seek His guidance all the time.
"You can pass a gene that is not needed for ever. There is no reason for that gene to disappear if it does not impede procreation. A homosexuality gene intervenes with procreation."
If a gene is recessive, or if it is a combination of genes, or if it is hidden and only triggered by changes in the environment then the gene can indefinitely stay within the species. All these genetic factors can be passed on by heterosexual people. Here is an amazing example which shows the evolution of foxes which parallels the evolution of dogs. Traits that would have normally never been phenotypically apparent were triggered through breeding for timidness. Less adrenaline in the system triggered these genes and furthermore their phenotypic changes. Similarly if homosexuality is genetic, it can be brought to the forefront by environmental, hormonal, and breeding within the human species.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbcwDXhugjw
"Any argument presented in defense of homosexuality can also be presented to defend pedophilia and zoophilea. All of these are disorders. People want to be politically correct and believe in any absurdity. "
I would argue the opposite. People who are pedophiles are often sexually abused as youths and become pedophiles themselves. Their brains are different than homosexuals and heterosexuals.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10…
Furthermore the rate of homosexuality in all countries remains relatively the same, while rate of pedophiles is much higher in countries where children are routinely sexually abused. I was reading Ibn Warraq's book "Why The West is Best" and the statistics of pedophilia were staggeringly higher in Islamic Countries like Pakistan than in western countries.
"The fact that homosexuality exists in animals does not prove that its basis is genetic. On the contrary! It proves that it is not. That is why I said it. Dawkins argued that homosexual people were forced to act as heterosexual throughout the history and that is why this gene was not eliminated. But animals are not forced to do anything."
Genetecist Simon Levay says: Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.
This disposition could have manisfest itself as a useful function within the human species in the same theoretical useful function which Dawkins postulated. But his theory is just a theory. We don't know for sure.
"Scientific journals are nonsense. Show me one scientific fact that homosexuality is genetic."
Dr. Sina how can you say scientific journals are nonsense? Scientists can be biased but journals show the methodology and data of the experiment. It puts it up for public scrutiny and the validity of the study is measured from therein by the scientific community. Scientific journals are the closest means to objectivity we have in this imperfect world where individuals can write whatever they want for subjective gains.
This is a study that was done on twins: http://www.springerlink.com/content/2263646523551…
There are many more. All you need to do is search on google scholar
"Is it a perversion? I don't know. I don't care about passing judgement. All I know is that it is a disorder no different fromm pedophilea or zoophilia. Is being a transvestite normal? Of course not! It is a mental disorder. But is it harmful? No it is not. If a man wants to dress like a woman. Let him do it. Who cares. But don't say it is normal and don't promote this mental disorder as natural. The same is ture about homosexuality."
If in my research I find that you are right, I will apologize. You have been right about many things and you have changed my life. I see that we come to the same conclusion about homosexuals but we just disagree about the causes.
The alleged homosexual gene is not comparable to wisdom teeth. You can pass a gene that is not needed for ever. There is no reason for that gene to disappear if it does not impede procreation. A homosexuality gene intervenes with procreation.
Any argument presented in defense of homosexuality can also be presented to defend pedophilia and zoophilea. All of these are disorders. People want to be politically correct and believe in any absurdity.
The fact that homosexuality exists in animals does not prove that its basis is genetic. On the contrary! It proves that it is not. That is why I said it. Dawkins argued that homosexual people were forced to act as heterosexual throughout the history and that is why this gene was not eliminated. But animals are not forced to do anything.
Scientific journals are nonsense. Show me one scientific fact that homosexuality is genetic. There is not such fact. There is no such gene. Homosexuality is learned. The argument most homosexuals say is, “I have been always homosexual.” This is not fact. They have learned to be homosexual at a very early age. It can happen in infancy or at any time in one’s life. Most homosexual say they “did not know they were homosexual until later in life.” Humbug. They want to fool themselves. They just became homosexual and don’t want to admit it.
A small number of homosexual are actual phisically deformed. They are the only homosexuals. The reat just decided to become one and the society even encourages it.
Is it a perversion? I don’t know. I don’t care about passing judgement. All I know is that it is a disorder no different fromm pedophilea or zoophilia. Is being a transvestite normal? Of course not! It is a mental disorder. But is it harmful? No it is not. If a man wants to dress like a woman. Let him do it. Who cares. But don’t say it is normal and don’t promote this mental disorder as natural. The same is ture about homosexuality.
Homosexuality is a psychological disorder. I don’t know how your medication can cure it. It needs therapy not medication. But I know close to nothing about Ayurveda.
Lol then why are there so many gays in India if it was that easy?
Homosexuality can be cured with due course in Ayurveda medicine. If you are lesbian take shatavari 500 mg daily thrice with triphala ras 2 teaspoon twice for 4 months.If you are a gay take ashwagandha 600 mg daily thrice with triphala ras 2 teaspoon twice for 4 month initially then increase 50 mg per month upto 1 year.Both drugs are best proved as adaptogens.
"If it were genetic it would have disappeared.The explanation he gave made no sense at all as to why it has not gone extinct."
We still have vestigial parts that have not disappeared. Your wisdom teeth, your pinky, etc. A lot of our genetic coding is also unnecessary and is just excess code from billions of years of evolution that no longer has a valid function. Just because something is not useful doesn't mean it will automatically be weeded out.
You explained this beautifully in your article on masculinity. We as a species should no longer be screening based on feminity and masculinity, but mainly on health, compatibility, status, and stability. However this means of screening still remains.
"Homosexuality exists in all animals. Animals are not subject to social conditioning as humans are."
This proves its basis is at least somewhat genetic. Dawkins argument is not mute because a gene could be adapted to be advantageous in another environment. The sense of smell in dogs for instance helps it catch prey. This has proved to be very useful in another setting as dogs can now use this ability to sniff out drugs.
"Homosexuality, like pedophilia, necrophilia or all other sorts of paraphilia is a disorder. Let us face it and solve it."
I don't doubt that all of these things can be learned. However to deny that there is a hormonal and genetic component to homosexuality is going against numerous scientific journals and data.
“Homosexuality can be cured just as it can be contracted.” Most times this is tried it almost always it ends in failure. This failure from this view is to be expected the curer suggests to the subject the image of a “typical” women completely ignorant of the innate differences in him and unaware that such a type is naturally repulsive to him. If this idea was used then it would point to the most man-like women – the lesbian type. If a cure for homosexuality had to be sought then this theory offers the solution.
“I found that homosexuality is actually a learned behavior. You can learn it at infancy or at any age.” There is as little reason to say homosexuality is learned as to say it is inherited. All people are both female and male to some extent as we both have one male and female parent. There is no “absolute man” who is 100% masculine or a “absolute women” who is 100% feminine. No man is attracted to all women and vice versa. I have heard this theory which makes sense this is due to the level of “maleness” and “femaleness” in individuals. For example a man who is 75% masculine will be attracted to a women who is 75% feminine. What makes most sense is we are bisexual but due to environmental factors or whatever else become practically unisexual either in the normal or inverted sense. It is also important to note there is no friendship between men unless their has been some attraction to draw them together. Much of the affection between men is due to the presence of unsuspected sexual compatibility.
Correction : The second sentence in the second paragraph of the longer comment should read: "Such people have no interest in reason or logic."
If you are indeed Ali Sina, as a heterosexual person I'm afriad I'm no longer able to take you seriously. Homosexuality may be a "phase" or an experiment for some, but even if it, there is nothing inherently unhealthy about such experimenting. The existence of whatever "lies" and "self-deception" you found among the homosexual comunit, even if true, does not logically lead to the conclusion that homosexuality or bisexuality is an aberration. If that were so, heterosexuals would have to be the biggest perverts of all. I would think that when a community is suppressed and reduced to a subculture within the mainstream, members of that community would have a difficult time living freely and honestly in any case. A woman in Islam who is forbidden to date may lie about meeting her boyfriend. Would that make islam guilty, or the woman?
I can see that youhave made up your mind on this, and thus have become no different from the hundreds of many Muslims who may have made up their minds about your arguments – who refuse to accept the validity of your criticism of Islam even AFTER having read what you have to say. Such people have interest in reason or logic. They, too, may offer arguments analogous to those that you have offered about the chracter flaws of people in the LGBT community. That is, they may say, they have seen great "immorality" and 'licentiousness," in the non-Muslim community, and from that observation leap to the coclusion that Islam is the only basis for true morality. But as you and I know quite well, such is not the case.
Far from being a "learned behaviour' with many people, bisexuality or a strong natural attraction to the same sex is simply the way they are. Young people who have discovered their gay or bisexuality undergo enormous mental trauma when they are told that they are not acceptable for who they naturally are. If you spoke of empirical data collected by yourself, there are countless horror stories of people being subjected to "treatment" in order to "cure" their "disorder" – magnifying unspeakably their already existing torment at being considered "abnormal" and freakish by a society without knowledge, without understanding, without compassion. A society that claims to know them better than they know themselves.
Believe me, Mr. Sina, if you were able to shed your prejudices and approach the LGBT issue with an open mind, you would change your views in the very same way that many Muslims who have truly listened to your views on Islam have changed their views on Islam.A Muslim who is able to admit he or she was wrong aboutIslam should be commended for his courage and self-examination. One would respect her or him the more for admitting error than for clinging to pre-conceived views even after being shown that these were fallacious. In the same way, all freethinkers who are now your supporters and who know that sexuality is a wide spectrum and that sexual attraction between consenting adults of the same or opposing sexes the most natural thing in the world, wil respect you the more for having admitted that you were in error and that you have now changed your mind. Although I am, perhaps, foolish to hope, yet I shall continue to look forward to the day that you will admit the legitimacy of the LGBT community- not for your sake or mine, but for the sake of those young people now deathly afraid of expressing their true sexuality in conservative communities. They need all the support they can get, especially those among them who are beginning to question religion as well. If you are unable to change your mind when faced by facts, it would be useless to expect millions of Muslims, when faced by the facts about Islam, to do so in their turn. For the sake of humanity, in the name of reason, consider displaying the same openness that you ask of them.
I've heard about married men being bisexual and the wives don't know. Is this also abnormal or classied the same as being a homosexual. Oh yes, how will a woman know that a man is bisexual because such tendencies are not visible as it is in homosexual.
Believe it or not, several years ago I debated with a Muslim guy and told him the exact same thing you tell me now. Someone wrote and said I should do my homework before repeating what others say. I realized I actually have very little understanding of the phenomenon and decided to deepen my knowledge .I even joined a lesbian club pretending to be a straight woman just curious about the lesbian lifestyle. You will be shocked to know that double standard and the self-deception that exists among the homosexuals. I found that homosexuality is actually a learned behavior. You can learn it at infancy or at any age.
I started writing about it and wanted to publish a book on it. I lost my files when my old computer crashed. This is about seven or eight years ago. I did not have the will power to rewrite everything, plus I have to focus on one thing.
Homosexuality is a disorder. The sad thing is that when it is not even recognized as such, it only spread. You can’t cure a disease if you think it is normal.
Homosexuality can be cured just as it can be contracted. The first step is to acknowledge that it is a problem. It is not genetic. That is a big lie. I heard this lie said even by Richard Dawkins. But it is absurd. If it were genetic it would have disappeared. The explanation he gave made no sense at all as to why it has not gone extinct. Homosexuality exists in all animals. Animals are not subject to social conditioning as humans are. Therefor Dawkins argument is mute.
Homosexuality, like pedophilia, necrophilia or all other sorts of paraphilia is a disorder. Let us face it and solve it.
Mr. Sina, I fully support your right to criticize Islam, but please try and understand that homosexuality is not a "disorder." It's a natural inclination and we all can have a wide sexuality spectrum – bisexual, gay, heterosexual. Please, do your homework with the same courage and patience as you have done it about Islam, and you will end up far more open-minded about human sexuality than you are now. Take the same challenge of open-mindedness that you have issued to Islam and you will discover that "normal" sexuality is not confined to heterosexuality in the human or in the animal world. I have hope that a man as thoughtful and open-minded as you can be brought to see this truth.
If you continue to diminish people who are gay or bisexual as "abnormal," or having a "disorder," you will turn away those young people who have realized they are gay or bisexual and who are afraid of being judged and condemned as having a "disorder," when in fact they are quite normal. Many of these young people pass their lives in great emotional pain and some even turn to self-destruction when they find that their family and community simply does not accept them for who they are. Some of these young people may be Muslim who could benefit from your encouragement to them to criticize Islam. But once they see that you do not accept them for who they ARE (gay, bisexual)- as opposed to what they BELIEVE (Islam) you will lose these growing minds forever, for no-one likes to be told that what they are by nature is illegitimate, invalid, unacceptable.
Once again I implore you to rethink your views on homosexuality. Gay and bisexual people are all natural beings with the same rights to be who they are as everybody else.
Ali Sina again shown for the bigot he truely
Claiming Muslims are Nazis yet showing in your own writing that you are the one who is fact is more like a Nazis then anyone else you accuse
-Moor
Pagans practice infantacide and all sorts of abusive sexual 'rituals' on children and women. Paganism is the worst of the lot.
Sheila Musaji has actually made mincemeat out of Sina on her site.
Read Wing of Fire..you will know how much religious their family..and this book is only about his social life..no personal life..He grown up under such parents, he fully understand true meaning of Holy Quraan with each and every situation in which each Verse is revealed..
By not evening knowing what islam is about but then to find out they they would "promised to provide you full safety for a one on one debate," that tells what idiotic, insane, crazy, barbaric, uncivilized, fear-inflicting, murderous, demonic, evil, violent "religion" islam is. Islamic religion is an oxymoron. Islam demeans the word "religion".
Y do you care any way
Eliminating evil will blow up this world anonymously.
You have to do it through the Internet annonymously.
Hi Ali Sina,
I have a Suggestion and a query for which I need your suggestion:
Suggestion for you:
I read one of your post were a Muslim guy tried arranging a debate between you and Dr.Zakir Naik and were they have promised to provide you full safety for a one on one debate. I am happy you that you did not fell in their trap. Never ever reveal who you are, unless you are on the verge of death, because Islamic world had sharpened their knives hard enough to behead you once they know who is actually Ali sina. Their had been fatwas raised against you. They may conceive you that they will provide you protection but some of their fellow colleague terrorist will follow you and will know you who you are. And you know what they do to people like you (you + me)
I repeat never ever go to any one on one debate taking live, how so ever protection they may give but you life will be at far more risk.
Debating on email is the best as one can re-read opposition and take time to rethink to understand each individuals philosophy. SO keep debating only on email or any other safe means. And I know how repeated each muslim is when they debate same point again and again to discuss with same emotions with the same ignorance to understand the truth which you have told several times. A single debate is enough for an intellect to understand the Evilness of Islam, but still keep on discussion so that you can shake the belief of as many as of them and free others form Islamic evil cult.
I have read you many articles and I think like how closely you have understood the true Human values, the actual religion. I am impressed BY your.
Need suggestion for my below query:
I want to eliminate this evil religion Islam from earth ,but i am afraid enough as it is natural that Muslim terrorist with their so called Peaceful religion and peaceful beheading of Non Muslim (and even muslims) people have made me coward to come forward and openly oppose this evil cult Islam, by educating others about the true nature of Islam.(I have no hate to any Muslims but hate their religion Islam)
So what all can I do to oppose this evil cult and educate others without keeping my life on danger?
Actually you are a little off on your assumption about Christianity was the culprit in killing homosexuals. I reference you attention to the study published papers of Dr. John Boswell. The root of the problem once again was Islam in Africa. Islam cited poor moral behavior in Christianity's acceptance of homosexuals thus making it a political maker under the Roman Bishops, Popes, the lost of Africa to Islam was over two contour issues marriage of plural wives and homosexuality.
Dear Ms Sheila Musaji, do you know that a picture speaks a thousand words? Kindly open your super big panda eyes wide and take a good look at the above horrific picture of a innocent Hindhu, being beaten to death by all those super devout faithful Muslims inside the mosque, after a Friday prayer meeting. Please be brutally honest with yourself, me and our dear Dr Ali Sina. Do you feel peaceful at all after looking at it? If yes, then, please continue to bury your shitty head in the desert sand and get ready to join Muhammad in his hellish paradise. If no, then, perhaps you may wish to submit your your resignation letter to Muhammad and renounce this stinky religion of violence and death and embrace the author of the Golden Rule, Who is also Way, the Truth and the Life. Alternatively, you may wish to email to an extraordinary human being like Dr Ali Sina who always uphold the Golden Rule in his life. I believe that he is the best neighbour in this world to help you to get out of Islam.
Muhammad cannot been blame of what have been done by Muslim today after 1440 years.
In hadith, he said: "There will be 70000 or 700000 from my ummah, really will enter the heaven. The first will not enter until the last person enter. They will enter in one row and their face is like full moon"
If you don't have any relation with this prophets and saint you will lost in the borderless ocean.
The think I said about which have no side is like ocean without border. Can you imagine something which have no border. Sure you can't. That is god. Adam until Muhammad are the wave or foam in the ocean. The only things they are the chosen one to know god.
Don't you believe this bulshit of this ali sina.
If you are kristian, think carefully what I have said.
I had a talk with a non muslim once (hindu) about god. I asked her can you show me up and down, left and right even infront and behind. She could. why? because she lived in a universt. Who created this universt, I asked her? She said, sure God. Who was there before this universt. Sure God. She said.
Okey, now can you show me up and down, left and right and in front and behind. She couldn't. Do you think, the thing before this universt have side? After this question, she didn't want to talk with. May be she was thinking about her gods.
How about you. Do you think God have side like jesus?
If you said jesus is god because he had no father, what about Adam, no father and mother? Even who are you? It is nearer for yourself to be a god rather then jesus. May be jesus is only a prophet like Muhammad.
* When you already should know
"Let me remind you of your initial comment.I don't think they got the rocks in the camel's uterus by inserting them through the anus or mouth. "
Dude you are such an idiot for not knowing this. I guess you're against gynecologists, veterinarians, and professionals doing this all the time. The IUD has to get there somehow and it doesn't stay in the vagina at all. Hey if you want to do a cessarian section and effect a woman's birthing ability for the rest of her life that's on you. My God you're dumb and you can't even lie that well. Where did I say anything bad and doctors don't do. What a joke. Did you really graduate community college lol?
Again I see nothing wrong with these verses. Wow you're dumb.
"So he steals the families land who is at war with him"
Well I guess when the US uses the money it confiscates from druglords or when the Allies used the booty they confiscated from the Nazis that was stealing.
"Hmmm…what's the aryan soldiers doing on their "enemies" land in the first place?"
Lol the fact that you ask that question when you already know it shows me you haven't even read all of the vedas.
"And if hinduism has another definition of family then you people don't belong on planet earth. "
Ahhh the hatred comes out. I'm using that one thanks.
Buddha is revered in hinduism by the majority of Hindus. I've never met one Hindu that denied he was at least a saint. It doesn't matter if the texts say he isn't. Again you prove you know nothing about Hinduism and the mindset of Hindus. Thanks for the half information.
No I didn't. I said homosexuality was genetic. Thanks for lying.
Hindu Scriptures are the authority and they are authorized by self realized souls and any human being on earth can achieve that state through recommended practices in hinduism. A brahmin is the teacher and interpreter of hindu scriptures. He doesn't have the authority to create hindu scriptures.
An 'authorized' and 'proven' guru is above Vedas. Any human being can achieve this state and there is a procedure to identify this approved state.
Do you think anybody can counter Christ and Bible? Vatical Pope from catholicism can counter them? !!!
El padrino,
Here is the logic you should have concentrated on:
The main point which never occurred to you is what is the remedy for inhuman edicts, considering they exist, in hinduism and other abrahamic religions, IF proved definitively, from the standpoint of humanism.
In one word, NONE for Abrahamic religions. DEFINITE for hinduism as long as a single human being exists on earth !!!
In Christianity and Islam, authority (christ and muhammed) is DEAD. You cannot change anything now.
Hinduism's ultimate authority lies in each human being's soul. You cannot prove this statement wrong and I have given you exact answers when you countered me and told me that brahmin (uppermost caste) is the authority on what hindus should do !!!
'I'm done having these discussions.I've wasted precious time going in round in circles answering the same questions over & over.'
You are wrong. You are a triumphalist. Muslims tell the same thing – they already proved, they already answered.
Do you think readers are fools like you?
Shrek
I'm done having these discussions.I've wasted precious time going in round in circles answering the same questions over & over.
'rcognition' !!!
Did you see the warning? !!!
Also El padrino is doing that against a hindu, not a non-hindu.
To counter a hindu, EL padrino at the least should have read some concepts – not the christian beggar's concepts – upper caste condeming lower castes, aryan invasion theory.
What kind of sick retarded followers christianity produces I can clearly see now.
A community college educated guy who didn't read anything about hinduism, didn't read vedas is criticising hinduism on a site which repeatedly asks not to criticize any other religion than Islam.
I can definitely say I will not break the rules of the sites first (bringing any other religion than Islam into discussion) but I cannot say that I will sit back and tolerate lies against my religion.
I also see that darkfire316 doesn't break the rules.
FFI ADMIN,
EL PADRINO has been deliberately raising hinduism on this forum and FFI.
IF you are SERIOUS, next time you see EL PADRINO posting anything against hinduism, TAKE ACTION.
DO NOT EXPECT HINDUS TO SIT BACK AND NOT SHOW THE TRUTH.
EL Padrino is a 'RESPONSIBLE DAD' now. Eugenics became a topic of discussion earlier in the last century because of these kind of guys.
WE ARE NOT INTO THE BUSINESS OF TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK.
Ali Sina talks against Islam because he has studied 100% cover to cover islamic scriptures.
Hinduism is my religion. I have studies its philosophies, scriptures. I have studied LOGIC (not hindu logic) and western philosophy.
You haven't – not even 1%. Your criticism is a christian beggar's criticism.
Do you know sanskrit? Do you know that I know what I am talking about?
'Actually it's a brahmin who dictates what is permitted in hinduism.'
Brahmin is the teacher and interpreter of scriptural texts. They don't have the authority to create scriptures. Scriptures are authorized by self realized souls. A human being can turn to one such guy.
You talk from christian beggar's point of view.
Do you know who you are talking to?
Hinduism is my religion. I have studied its philosophies and scriptures. I have studied LOGIC (not hindu logic).
To go against my words, you need to have a very high knowledge in hinduism. Otherwise, touch my feet and listen.
Please give your brain some rest. Your christianity's worthless ideology has suffered tremendous humiliation.
FFI Admin
I appreciate the rcognition.And yes,ths was a fruitless discussion,precious time I won't get back
Fighting for booty & to rule the earth is what the aryans fought for.I have dozens of such verses tp prove my point.
Here's just one of them:
Yaj Veda 29:39 With military weapons let us win the Earth, with them the battle, with cannon let us win the ease-loving army of our foes. War-like weapons destroy the ambitions of the foeman. Armed with the bow may we subdue all regions.
So he steals the families land who is at war with him?
Hmmm…what's the aryan soldiers doing on their "enemies" land in the first place?To drink tea or to kill them & steal their land.
And if hinduism has another definition of family then you people don't belong on planet earth.
Our soul is the authority in hinduism. "
Actually it's a brahmin who dictates what is permitted in hinduism.
You condoned anal sex,period.
That acts as a natural form of birth control or using IUDs (rocks) that camel herders used to use on camels in Arabia."
Let me remind you of your initial comment.I don't think they got the rocks in the camel's uterus by inserting them through the anus or mouth.
Where did the verse say they were waging war for booty? He just said they would divide the spoils.
"Check your head"
Yea you should do the same. I'm pretty sure there's an empty space where a brain should be.
No bettering people is doing things in society that does not just benefit you but benefit everyone. Next only retrograde men wish to only advance themselves and not accept equality. Truly strong men have no problem accepting equality of the sexes and taking care of others they just have a primal need to take care of themselves. Women have proven great masters of men. Feminine force is physical and mental combat and women have proven just as powerful in this regard as men and further more the truly wise men are on the side of the Amazon women for a more feminine and free society.
darkfire316,
'If you read the next verse, the families themselves are at war with him.'
Also you should point out to El padrino that family in battle in hinduism doesn't have the definition of 'wife, children, young and old' which El padrino gave in bracket and ASSUMED.
That's why I avoid analysis of individual verses. Abrahamic faith followers are a retarded bunch of fools.
Did the above quote say anything about waging specifically for booty. No. It said to distribute the booty AFTERWARDS.
"You still don't think waging war for booty is bad?"
Yea I do. I also think your showing us dumbest person out there can get a community college education.
"IUD does not involve sticking rocks up a woman's vagina,you sick freak."
Hey I'm not the sick freak. It's you who thought it.
"I admit I'm not an expert on sticking stones inside a females vagina"
Oh and I can't forget this one:
"The arabs put a stone in the camels vagina to prevent male camels from inserting their penises,thus preventing coitus & impregnation.
Of course your sick logic has always been "if it's good for animals it;'s good for humans".
No sane person would stick a stone inside an animal's vagina,never mind a human's. "
Oh and how bout lying and saying I advocated anal sex with women. Wow not only do you have the intelligence of a child but you can't even lie that well.
Adminstrator, please do me a favor. I have been doing my part to report everyone who has been attacking any religion up till this discussion, Chrisitianity, Judaism, Hinduism and even atheism. I have tried to do my part.
However El Padrino has consistently not followed these rules. If the above request to stop talking about other religions is important to you, you will take action against this man. As he will not stop even after this discussion is done. I have asked you many times, and I am asking you again. PLEASE TAKE ACTION against this person.
If you do, the fights between Hindus and Christians will drop at least 30%.
Oh idiot he is talking about people he is warring with. If you read the next verse, the families themselves are at war with him.
Again you prove you know nothing about Hinduism. AND YOU DON'T READ.
"But they do this in opposition to their scriptures."
No you idiot. Any belief or scripture can be a Hindu's even Christian or Jewish Scriptures. YOU HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF HINDUISM. They are no defined by the vedas or any one scripture like Jews and Christians are defined by ONE Book, the Bible and the Torah. I'm getting dumber by talking to you.
And I wonder how many Hindus follow your quote… even brahmins? What a joke you are.
Again you lie like you did with the other two verses.
No idiot you're showing us how stupid you are and how deceitful you are.
Please idiot any army would split up the treasure they accumulate among themselves. This is common sense. When the government ceases money from drug lords wouldn't it make sense to divide the money and use it for themselves? Again I'm befuddled by your stupidity.
You can easily find any link on google you idiot. You take the IUD and insert it in the UTERUS not the Vagina. It's that simple! Wow you're dumb.
Ali Sina has asked everyone over and over again not to attack other religions on this site. This site is for exposing Islam. Neither of you is new to this site. Please show you can be mature adults and respect the site rules and wishes of the site owner. I don't have time to delete all of your comments. Please don't make me do it. We value your participation in the mission to expose Islam and do not want to delete your accounts. Please cooperate.
This is only first and last time I engaged with anybody and now I finish. I will not post any more replies even if temptation comes! I don't need to.
I became angry because El padrino changed his own statement later here which he agreed to when I asked him about something in another article. Otherwise, I am not into enlightening anybody.
Hindu prohibition:
You should not criticize hindu scriptures unless you are eligible to criticize, i.e. become an 'enlightened' soul.
Abrahamic faiths:
You should not criticize at all.
An all pervasive force who doesn't play favouritism to you.
What do you call it? Theism. This is official atheism.
Buddha's reformation was removal of hindu demigods and remodelling the ultimate god according to his interpretation.
Hinduism and Buddhism are both atheist ideologies – officially.
That's why only hindus are right to call themselves 'hindu atheist'.
Jews and Christians are not right when they do the same.
'I know there are hindus who question their texts & reject the belief in god(s) & still consider themselves hindus.Many christians & jews do the same.But they do this in opposition to their scriptures.'
Concept of atheism in hinduism is different than what we understand. Charvak was a very good atheist in hinduism. He accepts physical senses to be the only tool for verifying existence.
Hinduism's God is defined like this: Only God exists. (your laptop is god, your excreta is god too, an amoeba is god too but then you wouldn't know this truth in the same condition of mind in which you perceive the difference between objects).
This God is not eager to fulfil your wishes. You hold as much importance to this God as the smallest inanimate silt particle on the remotest corner of this physical universe.
Why: Hindus' hiding violence in vedas:
1. The opponent might be lying as nobody reads vedas
2. Embarassment from abrahamic followers' viewpoint (those who do not know how vedas were written or authorized and takes vedas to be just like Quran/Bible)
3. It is not possible to know why God does what (those who know vedas)
You should note that religion and humanism are and sometime are not in direct violation of one another.
The most famous hindu critic is Gautam Buddha, founder of buddhism – half a millenium before christ was born. Sikhism's founder was another famous critic of hinduism. Hinduism has seen critics unlike any other religion on earth. Hinduism is the only religion which has seen big shot critics.
Hindus' unofficial bible is Gita. Vedas is OFFICIAL centre. Nobody reads it. Majority of hindus do not know what is in vedas. That's the reality. Every hindu knows what is in Gita.
How about this verse?
Atharva Veda 4:31:2 Flashing like fire, be thou, O conquering Manyu, invoked, O victor, as our army's leader.Slay thou our foes, distribute their possession: show forth thy vigour, scatter those who hate us.
You still don't think waging war for booty is bad?
Logicians' handling of vedas is forbidden because you cannot know soul through mind.
Logicians' handling of Quran is forbidden because Muhammad said it.
This would be the same thing with Christ too. Christ was not Lord Buddha, who asked to reason out even buddha himself.
I'm not trying to replace hinduism with christianity.I'm showing you what hindus have been hiding & denying for too long.And that's the violent passages in their sacred texts.
You don't see waging war for booty as bad?
Check your head
# accuses such people of being logicians ( someone who uses logic)
========
This verse forbids anyone from showing respect to heretics also
El padrino,
To have a scholarly discussion, you should have read vedas.
If anybody asks you context, you will go dumb.
While 'cleaves the enemies' families' is not an ideal thing to do, vedas are stories and edicts mixed. Which one was ideal and which one was not should be part of a discussion from the standpoint of humanism, not christianity which itself is heavily tainted.
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make.I know there are hindus who question their texts & reject the belief in god(s) & still consider themselves hindus.Many christians & jews do the same.But they do this in opposition to their scriptures.
I'll give you a verse from manu that supports my argument – which is that hinduism rejects the use of logic.
Manu 4:30. Let him not honour, even by a greeting, heretics, men who follow forbidden occupations, men who live like cats, rogues, logicians, (arguing against the Veda,) and those who live like herons.
This verse explicitly forbids anyone from arguing against the Vedas & accuses such people from being logicians ( someone who uses logic.
'His constantly referred to as being a deceiver.This is not exactly a compliment to buddhism'
I am being very honest in discussing hinduism with you.
Hindus scriptures and philosophy are different. As far as I know, buddha is an OFFICIAL avatar (divine incarnation) mentioned in puranas.
Hindu philosophical schools are thought processes and not scriptures which would have condemned Buddha.
Hey genius.The part I put in bold emphasizes my point.
What part of "cleaves the enemies' families, usurps their land" is good.
You think it's okay to kill the enemy & his family (wife,children,young & old) then steal (usurp) his land?You are sick in the head.
I am not going to waste anymore of my time. You can copy paste or write whatever you want.
Buddhas may be condemned but not by the principles.
Hindus's words and Authority's words are different.
Bible is a different story.
Christ is the authority in christianity.
Our soul is the authority in hinduism.
I repeatedly told you not to reply just to get a kick out of replying.
Only in hinduism you will see saints and godmen saying that 'call god and you don't need to convert' OFFICIALLY.
Hinduism is 'dharma' – if you are faithful as a christian – that will bring goodness to earth and yourself.
We all came from God, we all will go to God – irrespective of what path we follow. Atheist, theist all will reach God – some slower through many incarnations, some quicker.
It is the only religion which considers evil (monsters) as having the right to exist.
No concepts can be greater than these which actually bring 'secularism' and 'freedom of expression' into the domain of God's business.
Abrahamic faiths are children and they will remain children.
Buddha is a condemned figure in hindu texts.His constantly referred to as being a deceiver.This is not exactly a compliment to buddhism
IUD does not involve sticking rocks up a woman's vagina,you sick freak.Give me your link where you get this info from because I can't find any proof of western doctors shoving rocks up a camel.
As far as I know, it is forbidden to reject vedas, because vedas is a concept not a book. The concept is the life and times of people who reached the consciousness of godhood. You can reject Vedas, the book, based on cruelty from a HUMANISTIC standpoint, as buddha did, but you cannot reject the concept. Buddha cannot reject Buddha himself. That's why Lord Buddha WAS WRONG in rejecting vedas.
Those who reach godhood have the capacity to defy laws of nature and spirit which guides ordinary mortals but abide by higher laws of the same. When they do, they perform 'miracles'.
If a god kills an innocent human or makes genocide, it is WRONG from a HUMANISTIC standpoint, BUT a God can do it and he WILL NOT go to hell.
That's why when you are a humanist, you should reject all religions.
Christinaity doesn't have the foundation to counter the logic of hinduism a.k.a 'sanatan dharma' ('eternal duty', a duty – true to one's own nature').
Hinduism is not a religion. It is a 'dharma'.
Abrahamic faiths come debating with their limited religious view and think that every religion must be the same.
Vedas say that nobody can understand it unless he is already enlightened. Only a christ or buddha can know as 100% sure, going beyond mind, what vedas want to say in any particular verse.
Vedas say nobody will ever know it (the verses intention) unless he is a 'buddha'/'christ'.
The authors of vedas verses, numbeing in 100's or 1000's, were spiritual figures of inconceivable spiritual authority – their spiritual evolutionary level of consciousness being equal to or greater than christ before christ was born.
You don't have an inkling what kind of authority vedas has.
That's why vedas are said to be infallible – words, deeds and accounts of contemporary societies of 1000's of Gods in human form – Buddha, Jain, Lao Tzu, Christ together will create 1 – 2 page(s) of 1 of the 4 vedas.
Quran/Bible has the authority of only 1 human.
Vedas has the authority of 1000's of such humans agreeing in unison.
I would have gladly agreed to violent verses in Vedas had you knew what you are talking about. Actually I want to agree with what you copy paste.
Vedas and manu smritis have a different kind of authority. That's why I asked you not to waste my time if you don't know hinduism.
Authority of vedas and Quran/Bible is apples and oranges.
A 'enlightened' hindu has the 100% genuine vedas given authority to reject vedas itself. Any ordinary hindu (even the lowest cast) is given the authority to become such a figure by recommended practices. That's why Lord Buddha is an avatar (incarnation of God as a reformer) in hinduism.
Same is not true with christianity.
El Padrino,
In short, Abrahamic religions and Indian religions have this difference in their core:
Abrahamic religions: Believe in God because the founder said God exists. (Follow christ)
Indian religions: Know God. Don't believe in God just because anybody tells you anything. (Become a christ)
A christ can have the authority from God to torture even an innocent human being and going against humanism and adhering to logic and reason.
Hinduism has the core of spirituality which it introduced for first time and remains the foremost ideology for engaging in discussion of god.
A discussion about god and other world brings the subject into question. Hinduism is the oldest and the first to take proof of godhood to the lowest atomic level possible – the reality of the subject himself.
Abrahamic religion is what the founder said.
How do you know if what christ said was true or not?
There is only 1 way to know – if there is a possiblity to be christ yourself to verify the words of christ before you decide to design and waste your life on christ's words – which you cannot differentiate from what he actually couldn't and didn't say.
Ad hominem – deduct and read if you don't like.
Tu Quoque – Are you a humanist or a christian?
Ali Sina says 'don't play Tu quoque' because he is a humanist. Muslims play tu quoque against christianity and other religions, including atheism but not humanism.
You replace vedas with humanism, not with christianity. If christianity doesn't have the high moral ground even after having the advantage of reviewing juadism (advantage of reviewing – hinduism didn't have), and copies barbarity previously introduced by hinduism, what are you trying to fool me with?
I found some time now. I am not going to come back to reply to this discussion again.
Whatever I wanted to say I already did.
Please idiot the only reason you've been doing this is because two right wing idiot Hindus who since have been long banned took shots at your faith.
"All you've done so far was to try & drag christianity in this. "
Hey what's that guy's name who always drags in the topic of Hinduism, atheism, judaism on an antiislamic website? oh yea…. I remember.
"I admit I'm not an expert on sticking stones inside a females vagina."
You're an expert in not reading and being dumb lol.
"Tell me which doctors in the west would prescribe such a crude treatment? "
Yea they do it all the time. It's called an IUD idiot.
"
Yajur Veda 17:38 O friendly countrymen, encourage the commander of the army, and begin the battle with him, who with his physical, mental and military strength, cleaves the enemies' families, usurps their land, is armed with weapons, slay's the foes, subdues the enemy in the battle, and conquers him.
Again do you read at all? Where is the bad part. LMAO…. oh my god you're dumb.
I sense some a person who doesn't read.
"Rg.Veda1:CXXXXII:1. HELPED, Indra Maghavan, by thee in war of old, may we subdue in fight the men who strive with us, conquer the men who war with us.This day that now is close at hand bless him who pours the Soma juice.In this our sacrifice may we divide the spoil, showing our strength, the spoil of war."
Oh El Padrino I see nothing wrong in this passage. Where is the bad part? Once again you don't read lol
"Good,then you understand that I'm not attacking you but exposing the violent passages of the Vedas which few are aware of"
Say who? A lying ex-gangbanger who doesn't even bother to read? lmao
I admit I'm not an expert on sticking stones inside a females vagina.I didn't even bother to look it up until now because it's so inhumane.
Tell me which doctors in the west would prescribe such a crude treatment?
# yajur veda translations I copied from devi chand http://www.archive.org/stream/yajurveda029670mbp/…
Rig veda I copied from here http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/
I sense some anger.
If you agree there are violent passages in the Vedas then our discussion is done.But since you're still in denial I'll paste a passage that encourages genocide & theft of the enemies property.
Yajur Veda 17:38 O friendly countrymen, encourage the commander of the army, and begin the battle with him, who with his physical, mental and military strength, cleaves the enemies' families, usurps their land, is armed with weapons, slay's the foes, subdues the enemy in the battle, and conquers him.
And yes,I won't deny there are also many violent passages in the bible.
Read my posts and then respond and respond intelligently. I understand that you are a moron refusing to read and respond to my posts"
I expect you to do the same.All you've done so far was to try & drag christianity in this.
Whether Jesus is a false prophet or not does not detract from the violence & absurdities in the vedas.
I hate to say this but you're engaging in tu quoqe & ad hominem.
Is this not a violent passage which condones waging war for booty?Yes or no?
Rg.Veda1:CXXXXII:1. HELPED, Indra Maghavan, by thee in war of old, may we subdue in fight the men who strive with us, conquer the men who war with us.This day that now is close at hand bless him who pours the Soma juice.In this our sacrifice may we divide the spoil, showing our strength, the spoil of war.
You clearly understand that I do not stand by hinduism or any religion but reason"
Good,then you understand that I'm not attacking you but exposing the violent passages of the Vedas which few are aware of.We are all familiar with the violent passages in the bible & quran.Vedas & manu are no different.
You know, some Muslim apologists have called you a Nazi. Lol! In fact, Muslims are the real Nazis of the 21th century. Hitler loved Islam, Quran is a bestseller in many Muslim countries, etc. Instead, antiNazi Winston Churchill hated Islam; He compared the Koran to Mein Kampf.
"he camels vagina to prevent male camels from inserting their penises,thus preventing coitus & impregnation"
Oh my god. You are so dumb. They didn't stop coitus and penetration at all you idiot. They put the pebbles in the womb. If there is an outside object in the womb, the egg will not implant. That is why this procedure and IUDs today are successful. You could've easily seen this by doing a google search.
But God.. you're so dumb you can't even do that..
* would never advocate
"The arabs put a stone in the camels vagina to prevent male camels from inserting their penises,thus preventing coitus & impregnation"
WOW YOU'RE AN IDIOT. THEY PUT IT IN THE UTERUS NOT THE VAGINA. YOU ARE DUMB
"Of course your sick logic has always been "if it's good for animals it;'s good for humans".
No sane person would stick a stone inside an animal's vagina,never mind a human's."
No and I never would advocate such a thing. DO SOME READING. Seriously no one can be this dumb. Are you doing this on purpose?
yes,I have you on record condoning the insertion of stones inside a women's vagina as a natural contraceptive.
I gave it some thought & then I realized how really disturbing that is.The arabs put a stone in the camels vagina to prevent male camels from inserting their penises,thus preventing coitus & impregnation.
Of course your sick logic has always been "if it's good for animals it;'s good for humans".
No sane person would stick a stone inside an animal's vagina,never mind a human's.
"The following is from Swami Dayanand founder of Arya Samaj who believed the Vedas to be infallible.He's well known for his intolerance of the abrahamic follwers. http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/chapterten.htm#9…
Funny how the brahmin who believed the Vedas were infallible didn't say anything about your AMAZING theories. I wonder why?
"In India the kitchens of the Mohamedans and Christians are not generally kept clean. Among the European residents in India it is chiefly due to the fact that the kitchens are entirely left in the hands of low caste Indian servants who do not possess and great sense of cleanliness.
A.~ It is a mere fabrication, and therefore, absolutely wrong. Bear you well in mind that whosoever has partaken of sugar (brown or white), butter, milk, flour, vegetables, fruits and roots has in fact eaten what has been prepared by men of all sorts and conditions, and their leavings. When the < b>, leather-workers,* scavengers, and Mohammedans, Christians and others gather sugarcanes for the fields, peel them, and press juice out of them, they handle them with their soiled hands, as they do not wash them even after micturating or defecating. "
And this proves what? That he observed Christians and Muslims not washing their hands? That the poor lower castes didn't keep as clean as the others? Wow again you prove nothing by quoting a ridiculous amount of words which ultimately say nothing.
Wow this keeps getting easier and easier.
Oh liar I have met so many brahmins in my life who are experts in vedic texts "
The following is from Swami Dayanand founder of Arya Samaj who believed the Vedas to be infallible.He's well known for his intolerance of the abrahamic follwers. http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/chapterten.htm#9
page 319
*In India the kitchens of the Mohamedans and Christians are not generally kept clean. Among the European residents in India it is chiefly due to the fact that the kitchens are entirely left in the hands of low caste Indian servants who do not possess and great sense of cleanliness.-Tr.
A.~ It is a mere fabrication, and therefore, absolutely wrong. Bear you well in mind that whosoever has partaken of sugar (brown or white), butter, milk, flour, vegetables, fruits and roots has in fact eaten what has been prepared by men of all sorts and conditions, and their leavings. When the < b>, leather-workers,* scavengers, and Mohammedans, Christians and others gather sugarcanes for the fields, peel them, and press juice out of them, they handle them with their soiled hands, as they do not wash them even after micturating or defecating.
Oh idiot the Sira and the Hadith is used to criticize the views, actions and life of Muhammad. The thousands of errors you spoke about is in the Quran which is significant because it is God's words straight from his mouth.
Please liar. Christopher Hitchens can back up everything he says and you on the other hand get caught with lie and false information over and over.
You don't know squat about Hinduism. And Christopher Hitchens wrote an ACCURATE criticism of Hinduism which you still can't do even after a year.
"Even then,he has judeo-christian background so it makes sense that he focuses his attacks on the abrahamic religions."
A person's background makes no difference as long as his criticisms are accurate. Robert Spencer's Criticisms varies very little than Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Pamela Geller. What a joke you are.
I said Islamic texts which would imply the Sira as well as the Quran & Hadith.
Christopher wrote a brilliant criticism of Hinduism in God is Not Great and nowhere did he say any of the ridiculous things you sa"
Is this your lame attempt at an appeal to authority.Christopher Hitchens is not as familiar with hinduism as I am.
Even then,he has judeo-christian background so it makes sense that he focuses his attacks on the abrahamic religions.
It is true Women have been involved in wars and leading armies. But still they are women and woman will never be able to protect herself from men, only a man can do that. As you say men fight for themselves, women for society, you will never be able to restrain man.
“While it is good to have loving families it is the patriarchal family that must be destroyed.” These are the same thing, in the patriarchal family the man provides and the women cares for the children. This produces loving families and healthy societies. How can an monstrous unnatural thing like you ever be a good maternal mother?
“Which we are doing just that and we are seeing our society rise because of it.“ In what way has society risen? More adultery, more divorce, more teenage Promiscuity? More single mothers? More fatherless children? Treating sex as a business? All this causes horrendous damage to individuals and society.
“Morality is not brought around through force but rather by getting people to accept reason.” First of all tell me what your morality is. Second prove it is rational. Third explain why I am should be obligation to obey anyone else’s morality. Fourth you yourself admitted moral codes can only be enforced by might. Your morality just like all other moral codes is man made and has as little place in nature as the ten commandments I.e. none. And what man has made man can tear down.
“Next no these peaceful leaders take power not through cowardly means but through smart and peaceful means. “ Yes they are cunning little rats. Their goal is just the same – the enslavement of the masses. How it makes me smile when Americans think they are voting for “freedom” when in reality they are just voting in a new tax gatherer.
“Democracy further more is a wonderous thing and a staple of American society.” A wonderous thing is it the rule of the rabble? This another preaching of all demagogues going.
“Further more no extreme dictators will take power America is proudly and freely going to be a democracy so long as the nation stands.” I would not bet on it. There is only so much lies people can swallow “equality under the law” such lies from a old piece of parchment written by some rotted politicians.
@ Shrek, darkfire & el padrino,
.
Hopefully y'all have had all y'er fun time. That's one joy-ride I don't think I'm gonna miss 🙂
.
Going forward, I suggest you folks use a blog-site or some other forum (agniveer, may be?) to talk about the horrors or benevolence of any religion other than Islam. It seems like a slippery slope where no one recognizes when to stop. Or may be I'm just over-exaggerating – and all of it was acceptable at alisina.org (in which case, my apologies).
.
MN
Now, there's a truck-load of information / knowledge I could have lived without. Ironically, Wife & I are planning to get pregnant.. lol..
While he is a fighter he is still peaceful at heart and he fights for peace side by side with his feminine counterparts. A true man respects a woman as his equal and partner and they fight side by side against evil and make the world better for themselves and their children. Further more the family is not what is important it is the individual and individual rights. While it is good to have loving families it is the patriarchal family that must be destroyed. Which we are doing just that and we are seeing our society rise because of it.
Women may be physically weaker then a man but she also is more nimble, agile and speedier in combat. Also women can get very strong. Further more you do not know much about the origins of our species as both men and women were hunters and gatherers and in fact early human civilizations were matriarchal. Next actually women becoming Amazons is the only resource for women who are honest to theirselves. They know that they are the only persons they can depend on as well that it is foolish to depend on a man so they become strong themselves like the Amazons of old.
No reason does not tell you that might is right. Rather your cowardly insecurities tell you this. Morality. While it is true that morality only exists as ideas for sentient beings to live in a cohesive society. Morality is not brought around through force but rather by getting people to accept reason. It may be enforced through force but it is not put forth by force. Next no these peaceful leaders take power not through cowardly means but through smart and peaceful means. Democracy further more is a wonderous thing and a staple of American society. Further more no extreme dictators will take power America is proudly and freely going to be a democracy so long as the nation stands.
“A strong man is one who has a peaceful nature but is willing to fight for peace. He also respects women and supports their equality. A brutish man tries to win everything by force and doesn’t give equality to women. In essence a punk who will be deposed of.” But he is still a fighter is he not? A fearless warrior who will fight for his honour, his wife, his children? Even in these fairytale stories of “Prince Charming” he fights giants, slays monsters and brings justice to villains (that is to say other men). Everywhere he goes he is a man. Or as they say “ a knight in shining armour”. A man respects woman as woman. He will fight, kill and die for her. He knows what she is and she wants and need. She is after all the one who will bear him unconquerable sons and the prettiest daughters and will provide maternal love for his children. This is why the family is so important without it all society will collapse and create a hell on earth.
No this is impossible. Women always need protection they are phyically weaker than men. You can argue with this but that is how nature made you. In the early of our species the men would got and provide and protect his female. In turn becausewoman was protected from the forces of nature she became phyically weaker than men but developed an emotional power or as you call it "Femine strength". "So we need to men to protect us all we need is to be Amazons." This cannot all women if they are honest know they want a strong man to lean on.
"Morality is determined by reason and logic."
Reason tells me might is right. The only place your morality exists is in your mind. To impose your morality (or that is to say your will to power) it has to be done by force. Every army officer, policeman and judge is proof of what i say. "Next thugs do not always overthrow thugs there are blissful occasions where sane peaceful rulers overthrow despots." Peaceful rulers eh no they just use a more cowardly method to collect their taxes. Why These thieves do not need to use force when they can drug the people with democracy. Sooner or later though I promise you an american Cromwell or Cesar will come.
Also extract from El padrino why he believes christ's cooky spooky stories are true while he is at the business of condemning hinduism.
You need to identify the enemy's psychology to defeat the enemy.
If he spits on Jesus Christ and takes him as a false prophet, please end the discussion as he would be an atheist then. It will be a different dimension.
darkfire316,
'And I'll just say Hindus don't believe in it.'
Do you know why hindus have the right not to believe in it while christians do not have the right to not believe in anything written in bible?
If you are not very clear and cannot tell it to El padrino the exact reason why christianity is a joke in front of hinduism then I will elaborate but not today.
Thank you.
'hindus to condemn low castes eternally to a life of misery,poverty & slavery'
eternal hellfire for not believing in christ, the joker, is not hinduism's business.
There are incarnations in hinduism. 1 life of a christian – live it in a cooky spooky way believing in false stories of christ.
How do you know anything christ said is true?
Because you like to think that!
"Let me put it to you another way.Most Hindus are peaceful & tolerant because they don't read & practice the Vedas. "
Oh liar I have met so many brahmins in my life who are experts in vedic texts and they have never advocated the ridiculous things you say. What a joke you are.
"Do you actually want me to start pasting verses that sanctions capital punishments for blasphemers?"
And I'll just say Hindus don't believe in it.
I repeat:
I have no problem you condemning hinduism if you condemn Jesus Christ for founding a false religion too!
This is my last post today. I will reply after 2 weeks as I cannot sleep due to work pressure.
El padrino,
'Christianity has countless critics,unlike hinduism'
Critics do nothing. Religion is religion – 100%. Take it or leave it. Critics sugar coat. I am not in the business of sugar coating political ideologies like christianity and Islam.
Read my posts and then respond and respond intelligently. I understand that you are a moron refusing to read and respond to my posts. You clearly understand that I do not stand by hinduism or any religion but reason. And reason doesn't mean 'christian reason' or 'muslim reason'. I will not hold on to cooky spooky ideology of christianity while condemning hinduism.
I have already responded quite well.
You are behaving like a triumphalist – exactly a muslim trait.
DON'T EXPECT ME TO DEFEAT A TRIUMPHALIST LIKE YOU.
If you don't condemn Jesus Christ here as founding a false religion, I will come after 2 weeks to show everybody what kind of a spooky false religion christianity is.
The Vedas are not the Quran and the Hadiths. You can blaspheme the Vedas all you want and you can't put a dent in Hinduism because Hindus can believe what they want."
Let me put it to you another way.Most Hindus are peaceful & tolerant because they don't read & practice the Vedas.
Do you actually want me to start pasting verses that sanctions capital punishments for blasphemers?
Generalizing Hindus when you don't know any personally. And constantly bashing them…. hmmm I wonder what that's called?
"Islamic texts have thousands of errors in it.Does this make the battle of the trenches or Muhammad's marriage with Aisha less true?"
You're talking about the Quran here. Not the Sira which is Muhammad's Biography and not the hadith which is his traditions. Wow you don't even know Islam. You are dumb. Why are you even here?
that doesn't mean I hate them."
Can you read?Does it say I hate hindus…or does NOT mean I hate hindus
"Violating women with stones or condoning anal sex has seriously damaged your ability to think clearly "
You can lie and say I believe in those things all you want. I'm used to it. You're the ex-gangbanger who doesn't believe in contraceptions for 2 years not me.Clearly you have more credibility
I'm referring to Christopher Hitchens.
Islamic texts have thousands of errors in it.Does this make the battle of the trenches or Muhammad's marriage with Aisha less true?
Violating women with stones or condoning anal sex has seriously damaged your ability to think clearly
Oh please liar..
Christopher wrote a brilliant criticism of Hinduism in God is Not Great and nowhere did he say any of the ridiculous things you say.
He criticized the God Men, the concept of predestination, he even criticized one of the concepts of the afterlife: hell – which even he acknowledged was not as bad as the monotheistic version of hell which is for forever as oppossed to it not being so in Hinduism.
But nowhere did he talk about your stupid arguements. What a joke you are.
Nothing but as you just stated you hate Hindus too
"I understand why you'd condemn me eternally for my childhood mistakes because this is a common trait amongst hindus to condemn low castes eternally to a life of misery,poverty & slavery.There's no way out,except death."
Thanks for showing us what a bigot you are 🙂
I'm just finding it very hard right now,not to hate Hinduism"
What's wrong with hating an ideology?
"Why would the Vedas go into such great detail about slaughtering dark skin dasyus & plundering them,if its lying?"
Oh liar I don't believe they say that at all. Your beautiful record of truth telling and me never hearing this at all being a Hindu my whole life is more than enough to convince me that you're full of BS.
"Yes Vedas are its best source of its own atrocities."
No, they're not. By your own accounts they're a bunch of hyms and BS stories and you consider them to be historically acurrate? Wow you're full of logic.
"Much like the Quran & Hadith is used in a similar fashion to incriminate Islam."
The Vedas are not the Quran and the Hadiths. You can blaspheme the Vedas all you want and you can't put a dent in Hinduism because Hindus can believe what they want.
"The logic to use for finding the truth is simple:I reject the supernatural elements & accept the practical ones as confessions."
Wow you're an idiot. If one error can be found in a document than it is liable to fraud and yet you take these same documents to be fact. Oh ex-gangbanger….
"Showing you the difference between an immature child & responsible adult is not bragging."
Denying genocide, Promoting Ethnic Cleansing…. I'd say you're still immature.
"I understand why you'd condemn me eternally for my childhood mistakes because this is a common trait amongst hindus to condemn low castes eternally to a life of misery,poverty & slavery.There's no way out,except death. "
Oh liar as of 2010 you didn't even know any Hindus.
"I don't know any Hindus personally though but that doesn't mean I hate them. I'm just finding it very hard right now,not to hate Hinduism"
I guess the truth comes out and you're a bigot.
Christianity has countless critics,unlike hinduism which has hidden behind an ideology so obscure that you've even managed to fool militant atheists into believing your scriptures promote enquiry,rational thinking & even disbelief in god(s).
But the truth is that hinduism is not that hard to understand & to connect all the different sects & texts.
"Obviously this implies condoning sodomizing a woman too.You can't condone something you would not put into practice yourself. "
No I never said anything about anal sex with a woman and you won't find anything where I've said such a thing. Oh liar. You can't pull this BS with me.
"BTW…what kind of sicko would put a stone inside a woman's vagina?I still can't believe you would even consider violating a woman in that way. "
Oh buddy you make me laugh. So getting pulling out for 2 years is better than a procedure that is being used today by doctors everywhere? You make me laugh and you're an idiot.
brags about taking care of his family as if that's something he isn't suppossed to do. "
Showing you the difference between an immature child & responsible adult is not bragging.
I understand why you'd condemn me eternally for my childhood mistakes because this is a common trait amongst hindus to condemn low castes eternally to a life of misery,poverty & slavery.There's no way out,except death.
A strong man is one who has a peaceful nature but is willing to fight for peace. He also respects women and supports their equality. A brutish man tries to win everything by force and dosen't give equality to women. In essence a punk who will be deposed of.
First of all I'm dead sure you're lying about context like always do. Secondly what is your source? The Vedas?"
Why would the Vedas go into such great detail about slaughtering dark skin dasyus & plundering them,if its lying?Yes Vedas are its best source of its own atrocities.Much like the Quran & Hadith is used in a similar fashion to incriminate Islam.
The logic to use for finding the truth is simple:I reject the supernatural elements & accept the practical ones as confessions.
No you find that women do not need protection. Also women can use force just like a man and women have been proven to be as excellent fighters as men. So we need to men to protect us all we need is to be Amazons.
Might is not right. Morality is determined by reason and logic. Brutes who only enforce their dictations by force always fail as intelligence makes right. Next thugs do not always overthrow thugs there are blissful occasions where sane peaceful rulers overthrow despots. Also I live a life of honor unlike you who is an insecure little male supramcist moron.
IUD does NOT equal anal sex.I'm spelling it out for you.
I was referring to the fact that you condoned anal sex amongst men.Obviously this implies condoning sodomizing a woman too.
You can't condone something you would not put into practice yourself.
BTW…what kind of sicko would put a stone inside a woman's vagina?I still can't believe you would even consider violating a woman in that way.
Next time I come, should be after 2 weeks as I am very busy, I will show you why you shouldn't believe in christianity but in hinduism, even if hinduism has faults and christianity not, in your eyes.
If you want to believe in god, believe in Him.
If you want to believe in a man made political ideology, believe in it, but don't confound the two – God and political ideologies.
I would check out your replies after 2 weeks. I don't have time now.
'This sprituality that you speak of which the Vedas contain was meant to be reserved for a select few,ie. upper castes.'
Please tell me from your knowledge why the division of castes came into being and why 'This sprituality that you speak of was meant to be reserved for a select few,ie. upper castes'.
You have gone too far. Now I will not leave a retard like you. I will show you how bankrupt a political ideology christianity is.
El padrino,
Why should I consider christianity a religion and not just another political ideology like islam?
Surely, christianity would vary in degree of evil with islam, but it is the same – a political ideology.
El padrino,
'Yes or no,It's that simple !'
If it is that simple, do you agree that you, your parent and your ancestors were and are BIG FOOLs for believing in christ?
Why any spooky cooky story cooked up by Jesus Christ make sense to you?
Christians are a big bunch of fools to believe in Jesus Christ.
El padrino,
You ask questions like 'Are vedas not the first scriptures to give a tutorial on butchery?'
It is very important to know why you ask. I condemn all religions. However, when it comes to supporting any religion, I choose my own religion, i.e. hinduism.
If you are criticizing all religions, criticize christ for fooling your ancestors along with the sentence 'vedas not the first scriptures to give a tutorial on butchery'?
El padrino,
You see so many muslims refusing to believe in anything even after they are shown the light of logic.
They lie. You lie.
They refuse to answer the counter questions. You too do.
We have to set ENTIRE christianity and ENTIRE hinduism. Bits and pieces wouldn't do.
This is what muslims do.
Christinaity is a bankrupt political ideology masquerading as religion.
El padrino,
Answer a simple question:
Have you READ and UNDERSTOOD vedas cover to cover, or howmany lines?
IS THERE ANYTHING GOOD IN VEDAS IN YOUR VIEW?
IF some goodness is in vedas, what is it?
Let me say what churches teach christians.
A homeless white christian beggar told me after I offered him money and told that I am a hindu, that 'you have lower castes and all, right'? Every christian beggar outside India would know 'tutorial on butchery in vedas', 'upper caste condeming lower castes', 'monkey god' etc.
Islam survives on deception – they don't teach their muslim followers the concept of abrogation. Islam didn't survive solely on fear. Psychological deception is and was necessary.
Christianity survives on political ideology of socialism and communism, not on concept of god.
El Padrino,
I am not into protecting hinduism, if you want to know my stance. It is only when I see people that elevate christianity above hinduism, I see any point in mentioning that christianity is a bankrupt political ideology. Because I know that you are a christian supremacist, and also not having any integrity of character, I am able to see through you.
In religion, God is at the core, social structure is not.
It is useless to prolong the discussion like you would learn or want to learn anything from me.
My entire logic rests on this single line:
'Reformation in religion is meaningless. God cannot be reformed. All other religions, e.g. christianity, are meaningless except THE oldest hinduism.'
Christianity's concept of god is meaningless. Christianity is at best a political ideology like islam. While islam's evilness is beyond any measure, christianity is not that bad compared to Islam.
El Padrino,
Please read clearly what I wrote.
You write against hinduism not because you are an atheist, because you are a christian.
If you look at religions from outside all religions, christianity doesn't make sense. I am not into spamming and wasting spaces. Have you ever done a logical analysis of religion?
I never mean 'christian logic' by logic.
To Everybody:
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXPlM9-y9Uo
"Next they are not under the thumb of any group however socially liberal values are best in line with reason and psychology." I understand they are not under the thumb of any group but they have to toe the party line. If you don`t believe "socially liberal values" then you`re not coming in.
"The goal of war is peace and if we are able to live in a rational civilization then we can abolish war." Such a society would very quickly be gone. Either the strong would takeover or if somehow that didn`t happen then everone would die. Such a society then if their could ever be such a thing which their can`t is utterly illogical.
"because you probably feel homosexual inclinations so that is why you think sexuality can be changed. " Yeah I am a self hating homosexual (kind of like the new self hating jew isn`t it)? No really I just don`t buy bullshit made up by people with an agenda.Believers lie and think it is okay to make up these "holy lies" so I do not trust scientists who believe the same bullshit that you do (which is the vast majority of them).
"women are keen on taking care of society and bettering all people." "Bettering all people" is this another utopian fantasy is it like socialism? I bet you put other people`s children before your own. Also this is the reason women can never be the equals or masters of men. Men as you say are only interested in advancing themsleves never ever will a man except this equality lie and submit himself as a slave to anyone no not even woman.
"I will not resort to the levels of masculine force but I will use feminine force and like the Amazons of old we will destroy you." Well I know what "femine force" is you are a perfect example of it with your snake tongue. So wise men are prepared for it and know how to handle these tricks.
"The kind of brutish men you mention only appeals to insecure women." What is your distinction between strong men and "brutish men"?
"Women can protect themselves they do not need a man to protect them." Well I think you will find they do. Sorry your "feminestrength" (i.e lying and backstabing) is no match for "brute force".
"you but unlike you I don't fight to be e brute but I fight for peace." Call it what you want "peace" "war" etc but you still fight. Might is right that is how all morality is enforced on any society. Any other theory is a fantasy. What you call "peace" is just your will to power nothing more.
"Next the thugs are always meet their end when strong and peaceful people stand up against them." The king is dead long live the king. The most true stament ever. Or in this case the "thugs" got their in the first place by overthowing the last group of "thugs". And they themselves can only be overthrown by other "thugs".
"Which is what I am sure will happen to you." If that is how I end so be it. Their are things worse than death one of them is living a life of dishonour.
You are wrong again in many species it is the women who make the rules and rule the species. In most animal specie women will have sex with whoever they wish. Monkeys, dogs cats and countless others all have sex freely with whom ever they wish. The females only will fool with said male if he pleases her. Which no woman should ever submit to a man. So really monogamy is unnatural but not bad.
Oh of course I can use brute force against you but unlike you I don't fight to be e brute but I fight for peace. You are speaking to a strong Amazon woman. I am a strong women and you are an insecure weak intellectually deficient little pile of dung who will be erased from history as time rolls on. Next the thugs are always meet their end when strong and peaceful people stand up against them. As well as the fact that they usually meet their own end in their stupidity. Which is what I am sure will happen to you.
Yes when women or men truly love their spouses they can over look many things. It dosen't matter whether you buy it or not you can easily hide your sexuallity for along time and pretend to be another. I bet the reason you believe this is because you probably feel homosexual inclinations so that is why you think sexuality can be changed.
Women can protect themselves they do not need a man to protect them. However brutish, thuggish men are not what women go for. Women go for kind and cracious men who woo them. Not overly arrogant fools.
Actually only insecure women find such men attractive. While it is true that women like strong men and men like strong women. The kind of brutish men you mention only appeals to insecure women.
Yes reality is clear and completely understandable. Next they are not under the thumb of any group however socially liberal values are best in line with reason and psychology. Also I don't have a hatred of manhood. When I speak out against men I speak out against the thuggish male supremacist men like yourselves Jesus and Muhammad. Strong secure men who respect women I love. Next war and conflict are natural but war is for peace. The goal of war is peace and if we are able to live in a rational civilization then we can abolish war.
Women can think rational. Men however are ruled by their emotions and ego which causes them. Men are only interested in advancing themsleves where as women are keen on taking care of society and bettering all people. Women are concerned with the spiritual and mental where as men are only concerned with the physical and their own selfish gratification. Muhammad was an example of this as are all male supremacists and this is why that such men have souls like donkeys. The effects of the removal of the patriarchal family has made the West the great society as it is. I too will always fight against your evil and I will not resort to the levels of masculine force but I will use feminine force and like the Amazons of old we will destroy you. Plus we debate with the mind not the sword and because we are intellectually better we will always be win.
"In the animal kingdom males and females live sexually free without marriage." No the strongest males will always have the Prettiest females. If any other male thinks he is strong enough to challenge his position (and to take his female) he must fight. And the female will submit to the victor. So "adultery" then is unnatural.
"women and men are not won through violence but rather by being kind and wooing them." I did not mean be violent to them. what I meant was Women are attracted to strong Aggressive males obviously they want their male to protect them from Predators and provide for his offspring to do that he needs to be strong. Of course she does not want violence used against her she wants to be protected from predators not imprisoned with one.
"Well usually their wives are in denial over their husband's sexuality and ignore the signs." What for 30 years 1st 2nd kid said nothing. Are you kidding me? You are talking utter bullshit.
"Next heterosexuals can keep up the pretense of having homosexual acts done" What in a relationshipfor 30 years no sorry i don`t buy this nonsense.
"Next yes I do hate you. You are an insecure little prick who wishes to dominate women and live as a violent thug." Good but sinse you are not going to use "brute force" to stop me their is nothing you can do. You are a coward and a weakling and the weak animals are always eaten by the stronger animals. So keep living in your utopian fantasy world but all this unnatural filth will soon be gone as everything unnatural doesn`t last for long. "Thugs like you are where they are supposed to be at the bottom of the barrell" The "thugs" are always at the top the meek and gentle people are always trampled upon so keep on dreaming.
Good luck with that but the truth is women are always attracted to strongest bravest males. Every women knows that and find such "brutish men" Irresistible , they want lion not a lamb.
"cool thinking equal ratinalism of women." Sorry women are not rational nor can they think rational it is just not in their nature. They live in thewishy washy world of the emotions they are concerned with finding ultimate truth and they are complety this wordly and intrested only in the finite. Hence their is some truth to it when muhammed said "the women hath no soul".
"including the patriarchal family structure" We are seen the effects of this and it is disgusting. I will always fight against you and sinse you will not use the "brutish masculine force" you are going to lose.
"Reality is clear and unchanging to any mental perception." No its not.
"So they are not under the thumb of any group." Really except the scientists themselves who you admitted are "social liberal values are the values that are best aligned with science and psychology." This is where the nonsese about global warming comes from I.E thes socialist scientists.
"All of this is warmongering masculine nonsense." You have a hatred of manhood which proves my point manhood is being demonised which you lied about when you said it is mythical, when you yourself have a hatred for it. Second that teaching is from jesus and every preacher, socialist pacifist anarcist and all mob worshipers going quote this and other vile teachings of this mad man. Also their has never been a day without war nor is their ever going to be any. War and conflict is not only natural but necessary for our survival. Anyone that believes otherwise is living in a fantasy world.
No they are not they are conditioned to commit homosexual acts but they are not attracted to them.
Next I have given you proof. Psychology has shown that you can not change ones sexuality. All of the ex gay centers have a high failure rate and change nobody. Also many of them even say that they can not change your sexuality only your behavior. All research shows that you can not change your sexuality.Further more you do not have to be attracted to someone to have sex with them as many people do. While they may climax and this is not a guarantee the sex is not enjoyable but laborous. Not all sex is good and having sex with someone you are not attracted to is never good. Once someone is pressured to have sex with someone they are not attracted to they can do it. Only it will not be pleasant and make said person miserable and they will not have an easy time and usually have to force themselves into it with vizualizations to complete the act. Of course this only applies to men, women can just like back and take it.
Well usually their wives are in denial over their husband's sexuality and ignore the signs. Next heterosexuals can keep up the pretense of having homosexual acts done as evidenced in porn. However said acts are never satisfying and make said person miserable.
Yes scientists base their views not on emotion but on reason and the facts. Next women and men for hire are good things. Women nor men are prizes to be won but rather independent creatures who can decide who uses their bodies or not. Women are not some man's property to be won as a prize to a man but independant human beings who can choose who has sex with her and if they must pay or not. Next the patriarchal version of the family deserves to be attacked as it is based on nothing but male supremacy and male oppression. In the West families are becoming more egalitarian and are leaving the patriarchal family behind as they should.
Just because everyone's brain works differently does not mean that you can't understand reality. Reality is clear and unchanging to any mental perception. As for most scientists being liberals. While it is true that many of them are on the left side in terms of social values. They differ on matters of economics and other issues. Further more social liberal values are the values that are best aligned with science and psychology. Patriarchal violence, sexism and homophobia only lead to shit hole societies. Unlike the beautiful feminine society we have now. Also the government does decide what gets into the text books but science has gone against the government on many issues such as evolution, global warming the naturalness of homosexuality, stem cell research and abortion rights etc. So they are not under the thumb of any group. As for Jesus he only encouraged his followers to be kind to enemies while they were still a small group. However he clearly said that Christianity came as a sword to fight against disbelievers and believed that all who disbelieved in him went to him. All of this is warmongering masculine nonsense.
Jesus may have had prostitutes as followers but he still was against prostitution. He enshrined male supremacy by saying that women should obey men. He also issues thought control by saying that if you look at a woman with lust you are comitting adultery. Christianity plays on the violent, thuggish and ego driven nature of men which is why it was so popular and why it put women to such a lower level. It pretty much was founded on the patriarchal familit. Further more women are no more emotional then men in fact women are not nearly as violent or as driven by their ego as men. This is why the irrational ideology known as Christianity persisted because it played on the irrational selfish emotional ego of men as opposed to the cool thinking equal ratinalism of women. We must destroy Christianity, Islam as well as all forms of patriarchy, and male dominance including the patriarchal family structure and patriarchal anti sex attitudes.
Thank you. Likewise I am glad that you found us.
When they do not it is no problem. Next sexual freedom has been a blessing and has risen Western culture to new hights. We live in a more civilized world a man does not get a woman because of how he fights for her like a brute but rather by being kind and gentle and using his mind instead of acting like a thug. Also men do not posess women, women posess themselves and any one male or female can steal another's spouse of eithher gender. Also adultery does not exist in the animal kingdom. In the animal kingdom males and females live sexually free without marriage. Which is how we should live sexually free and libertine. Next yes I do hate you. You are an insecure little prick who wishes to dominate women and live as a violent thug. Well the reason Western society is so great is that women and men are not won through violence but rather by being kind and wooing them. You must pay to have a woman not win her as some prize and it is the woman's perogative to choose who ever she wishes. Thugs like you are where they are supposed to be at the bottom of the barrell
Women can rent and sell their bodies as they wish as it is their own body. Also prostitution only causes the break up of families when men or women cheat on their spouses or girlfriends.
First of all a woman is not a prize to be won. A mere brute who fights as a thug is not the one who gets women but rather the kind and gentle man with a strong spirit. .
Just because certain heterosexuals have these traits does not change the facts that these traits persist with homosexuals. Next AIDS is not known to change brain structure it has been shown on healthy and non healthy homosexuals that they have different brain structures.
I am very glad that i founded ur website,Ali.
"What I don't agree with is that anal sex is a healthy form of natural contraception."
Where did I even say this? Man if you somehow think I'm talking about having anal sex with women when I just talked about IUDs and breastfeeding then it's no wonder that you come with all these BS conclusions about HInduism.
Keep making me laugh ex-gangbanger.
"This sprituality that you speak of which the Vedas contain was meant to be reserved for a select few,ie. upper castes."
That's really funny because lower castes could read the vedas to. Vaishyas were perfectly entitled to study the vedas.
"Meanwhile the enemies of the vedic people were butchered,enslaved & their properties plundered.Wouldn't it be correct then to say that the Vedas introduced bigoted spirituality? "
First of all I'm dead sure you're lying about context like always do. Secondly what is your source? The Vedas? What a joke you are. Then I guess I have to believe the Old Testament story of God murdering all the people of the world and all the animals of the world except Noah and his ship. What stupid logic you have. Well I guess I would expect as much from an ex-gangbanger who used pulling out as means of contraception for two years and brags about taking care of his family as if that's something he isn't suppossed to do.
* not mentioned in the Vedas
Oh El Padrino your beliefs and your intelligence are so important. Too bad you're a lousy christian and a dumb human being.
I doubt anything you have to say about the Vedas is true. As you lied so much and continue to lie.
No my arguments aren't fallacious. If the Vedas were everything that you said then there would be no way untouchables could become Kings, no Hindu Atheists, no worship of the millions of Gods not mentioned in Hinduism, no way Buddha would be worshiped as an Avatar, no way Jesus would be worshiped as an Avatar, and pretty much everything you said.
Keep it up liar.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?! ARE THAT DUMB THAT YOU DON'T EVEN READ WHAT YOU WROTE?
"It's a much better alternative than sodomizing a woman which is exactly what you condoned. "
“He was also against sexual freedom by saying that if you look at a woman with lust you are committing adultery and that all nonbelievers go to Hell.” Really then why many of his followers were women and prostitutes? Also when a prostitute was brought to him for stoning he let her go. “and do not sin again” against sexual freedom, Oh really? Also the church has always been against the family they know without a man to support them they can easily play on the emotionalism of women. As I said many of Jesus`s early followers were prostitutes.
“Yes there is something as an objective reality.” No their isn’t. What you call “objective reality” is just how it appears in your mind. Everyone and everything’s brain is wired different. So what you what think is “objective reality” is infact just how your mind perceives it, it has no “objective existence”.
“Next the scientists in the West are not warped by liberalism or political correctness. In fact science has come out against PC concepts especially with regard to culture equality.” Well most scientists are liberals. As are most teaches and university professors, and of course the government decides how much lies and truth is put into the text books.
“Also Jesus did not have feminine teachings.” Well I disagree loving your enemies and turning your cheek in my book those are very feminine teachings.
"Prostitution is completely natural and it causes no harm." No it isn’t you have to "win" a female not "rent" them. Also this thing causes much harm to society as it break-ups relationships and family’s.
"It just comes from sexual freedom and body autonomy." Yes and this what is so sick about the western culture. "sexual freedom" as you call it, encourages all these social diseases like prostitution and adultery. In the animal kingdom (and among our ancestors) if the male desires another males female he must fight to possess her and has to prove himself man enough but thanks to “sexual freedom” this no longer happens, and any coward can steal another mans wife.
“Next I find you to be the most contemptible person on this site as well.” Well good as least you hate your enemies as I sure as hell hate you.
"However the difference is that said people who are conditioned to commit homosexual acts are not attracted to members of the same sex." Yes they are.
"Your sexual orientation does not change only your behavior and they never enjoy sex with a person of whose gender they are not attracted to as they do with one that they are." I will ask you again where is your PROOF? You have no proof whtsover for that. If you have sex it you have to 1) Be attracted to the person and 2)Enjoy it. Do you feel attraction to little children or your sister? If your answer is no then please explain how you can willingly without any simulants have sex with them?
"however these are traits that percist with homosexuals." So what many hetrosexuals have the same traits.
"There are many things showing the genetic basis of homosexuality such as the difference in brain structure and countless other things all easily researchable." This brain structure this was a study on homosexual men who dies of aids and males presumed to be heterosexual. 2 problems with it 1) The uncertainty of the sexual orientation of the subjects
2)Potential complications caused by the AIDS virus (which does infect the human brain), and also by lowered testosterone levels found in AIDS patients.
This is not proof and if you give me a study proving every healthy homosexual compared to the hetrosexuals had a different brain structure then that would be proof.
Are vedas not the first scriptures to give a tutorial on butchery?
All your other statements are fallacious.
My beliefs are irrelevant here.Do the vedas promote universal brotherhood or intolerance of non-vedic people?
Yes or no,It's that simple !
My aim was to demonstrate that Vedas condone massacre & plunder.
This sprituality that you speak of which the Vedas contain was meant to be reserved for a select few,ie. upper castes.Meanwhile the enemies of the vedic people were butchered,enslaved & their properties plundered.Wouldn't it be correct then to say that the Vedas introduced bigoted spirituality?
Ali sina knows how to create an image of something in words pretty well , but that doesnt prove that he is talking right. He is manipulating some available information to his cause thinking that these are universal for all Muslims. Unfortunately this is not the case. The disputed information which he has been trying to prove as not disputed will not work in general, though some muslims might get confused by constant propaganda from his part….
You cant but say that he has been purposely using information to attain whatever he wants to , though its apparent that he earns a lot just by running his site and letting the anti-muslim lot know that he is big fish in the market. However, to many he is nothing but a charlatan…
Where the hell did I sau IUD is sodomizing?
I'm not even agianst IUD or any other form of contraception,whether it's artificial or natural.What I don't agree with is that anal sex is a healthy form of natural contraception.
This is a free site. Anyone is welcome to say what is in their mind. There are several points I disagree with enlightened25 and several that I agree. The best thing is to refute his views and not attack his person.
I just logged in to check if you posted any replies.
I am very busy these days. Whichever day and time I get I will continue this honest conversation.
Let me say what my problem is.
If you are criticizing hinduism from the standpoint of an atheist, I have no problem.
If you are criticizing hinduism from the standpoint of a christian, I have problem.
I have problem if you put christianity above hinduism, but do not have any problem if you put christianity on an equal pedestal with or below hinduism.
Let me be very clear. You should not waste my time if you don't know hinduism. I will severely humiliate you, your logic, christianity after proving your ignorance if you criticize hinduism from the standpoint of a christian.
Prostitution is completely natural and it causes no harm. Further more it does not come from any mythical demonization of manhood. It just comes from sexual freedom and body autonomy. Next I find you to be the most contemptible person on this site as well. Personally I hate all of your ideas and you are a mere masculine supremacist thug just like the Abrahamics.
I did not say that if you had older brothers or were left handed that you would always be homosexual however these are traits that percist with homosexuals. There are many things showing the genetic basis of homosexuality such as the difference in brain structure and countless other things all easily researchable. Hell wikipedia would make a good start. However like most science deniers I am sure you won't accept the evidence as the rhetoric you give me is no different then creationists.
Yes there is something as an objective reality. Read the works of Ayn Rand for more infor on this subject. Reality can be objectively known. Next the scientists in the West are not warped by liberalism or political correctness. In fact science has come out against PC concepts especially with regard to culture equality. Science has objevtively proven that homosexuality is normal and natural. Though like creationists you deny these facts and say that some PC Liberal cabal controls the sciences which they don't. Also Jesus did not have feminine teachings. He openly said that Christianity came to bring a sword not peace and enshrined male supremacy on his believers. He was also against sexual freedom by saying that if you look at a woman with lust you are committing adultery and that all nonbelievers go to Hell. You should join Christianity or Islam. They both are male supremacist cults of violence and virulently homophobic. It sounds like your niche.
No just because one has an attraction to the same sex dosen't make them homosexual. You are a homosexual if you are either exclusively or dominantly attracted to the same sex. Next yes these homosexuals who are married for 30 years and have kids were forced into it. Because of Abrahamic Patriarchal ideas homosexuals are conditioned that they must pretend that they are straight in order to be accepted in society. There have been some heterosexuals who have entered in sham homosexual unions for attention or because they are trying something new but said relationships never last. Also heterosexuals unlike homosexuals are never pressured to be gay unless they are in porn.
No it is a psychological fact. Women have been shown to have just as much courage as men. Next a true man is a peaceful man. While he does fight and is valorous he fights for a time which will be peaceful The same is true for women. Both men and women are fighting for peace. You do not lose your strength of character by not fighting in fact being peaceful comes from your strength in character. The strong man knows when to fight and when to be peaceful and thes strong man knows that the goal of war is peace. As I said before there is no quality essentially intrinsic to one gender and this is a fact.
"You also base your arguments on issues of debunked morality like the claims against prostitution" Is prostitution in accordance with nature? This disgusting thing all as the result of the demonisation of manhood.
"moral nihilist I rightly know that morality is not something that exists on it's own but is our assessment of the facts and how to live in a cohesive society." Is this your will to power is it, well you are not putting it on me. And I must say I find you the most contemptible person I have debated with on this site. Sorry their is just something about you that I hate.
"Further more science is the study of the objective reality not a subjective supernatural philosophy." Their is no such thing as objective reality so their is the first lie of science.
"Also the psychiatrists in China are warped by their political system which by the way is founded by the same altruistic and anti reason" The ones in the west are also warped by a polictal system i.e. liberalism or political correctness.
"by the way is founded by the same altruistic and anti reason concepts in Christianity" Why you hate Christianity for? everything you say agrees with the teachings of that Hebrew madman all his femine teachings and his running around with prostitutes. You would love that meek little lamb the perfect "man" to you no doubt.
Ali sina should do exactly as he did in the last 12 years he is more affective this .on the other hand he has practice medicine .this way he can cure Muslims physically and mentally u know
"Compared to straight men, gay men are more likely to be left-handed, to be the younger siblings of older brothers, and to have hair that whorls in a counterclockwise direction." Sorry this is not "rock solid evidence" of anything. I am left handed and have older brothers wow that must be unusual for a hetrosexual?
Ali Sims should work the same way he has done in the last 12 years ,he is more affective this way on the other hand he got to practice medicine .this way he can cure Muslims physically and mentally u know what I mean.
You are talking pure nonsense how many times if you are atrracted to someone of the same sex you are homosexual stop trying to get out of it. "However they do not enjoy it as much as straight sex." I am sure you have asked them i suppose.
"You can get a homosexual to pretend that he or she is straight and have straight sex however they will stil be gay and live a miserable life." Codswallob those homosexuals who are married for 30 years and have 3 kids I bet they had a miserable time they were forced into it right? You are lying if a person had a homosexual relationship for that long and then suddenly annoced they were "pretending" they would be laughed at and rightly so and no-one would buy that nonsense but when a homosexual says it it must be true right?
"There is no quality that is essentially intrinsic to one gender." More lies.
"Also feminine thinking has given us a peaceful cohesive society." If we was truly peaceful man would lose all his best qualities, like the lion without his fangs and his claws blunted. Unlike what these mad messiahs would like us to believe man is not a sweet little lamb but a fighting animal that has had to kill to survive. Why all Women want most in a man is strenghth of character, courage and ferocity. That is for a reason nature rewards the strong not the weak and if women have expertise in anything it is in love.
"They are rational they base their findings on reason and not their emotional issues as we do." So you believe that the scientists are superior then and unlike everone else are not emotional at all?
"Next prostitution, open relationships are good things" How are they good? Protitution women for hire? What disgrace is this? Women have to be won by men who are worthy not any old Tom, Dick or Harry.
"further more there is no attack on the family other then the patriarchal version of the family." Thats an attack on the family.
Further more science is the study of the objective reality not a subjective supernatual philosophy. Also the psychiatrists in China are warped by their political system which by the way is founded by the same altruistic and anti reason concepts in Christianity and Islam. It is also male supremacist which I am sure that you will love. However in the West we do not have a set body ruling over the sciences but in fact the sciences are independant and untouched by government or religious control. As for homosexuality I have given proof from the genetic phenomena that accompanies homosexuality to the universality of homosexuality in nature. The only reason you are against homosexuality because like Christians and Muslims you are a male supremacist who sees homosexua men as feminine and therefore weak. Where as many gay men are masculine and there is nothing in femininity that is weak. You also base your arguments on issues of debunked morality like the claims against prostitution which as a moral nihilist I rightly know that morality is not something that exists on it's own but is our acessment of the facts and how to live in a cohesive society.
Well it is true that unless you study a certain religion you will never know as much as the prophets and gurus. I have studied many religions and to be honest I could be a prophet or guru if I wanted to but I don't believe in these religions.
There is no inborn orientation that causes one to be vegan or a meat eater. There however is one that causes one to be attracted to a certain gender. Now while you can be conditioned to have sex with someone you are not attracted to. This does not change your orientation or who you are truly attracted to. Next a heterosexual can have homosexual sex. However they do not enjoy it as much as straight sex. Also on the Jim Jones comparison through brianwashing you can get people to do things they wouldn't normally do such as kill their children however this is not natural to them and normally they would not do these things. You can get a homosexual to pretend that he or she is straight and have straight sex however they will stil be gay and live a miserable life. You can get a person to act contrary to their nature but that dosen't change what their nature truly is.
However the difference is that said people who are conditioned to commit homosexual acts are not attracted to members of the same sex. The can have sex with members of the same sex but they still either feel complete attraction for members of the same sex or dominant attraction. Your sexual orientation does not change only your behavior and they never enjoy sex with a person of whose gender they are not attracted to as they do with one that they are. What I say is easily definable it is only in your backwards emotion based anti science arguments that you do not understand what I am saying.
No there are countless more bits of evidence showing the inborn cause of homosexuality however the subject of twins shows is just another piece of evidence showing the genetic causes of homosexuality. Compared to straight men, gay men are more likely to be left-handed, to be the younger siblings of older brothers, and to have hair that whorls in a counterclockwise direction.
US researchers are finding common biological traits among gay men, feeding a growing consensus that sexual orientation is an inborn combination of genetic and environmental factors that largely decide a person's sexual attractions before they are born
We for the first reason the bond that you share with your family members is incompatible with romantic liasons. Psychologically it is damaging to see the people you are raised around in your family in a sexual way. The only time this line could be muddled if maybe you saw some cousin that you never met in your life. Because you wouldn't have the familial bond between the two of you the damaging psychological elements or aversion to sex with them might not be there. As for who gives them the authority to say what is normal or not why their expertise in these fields gives them authority.
Actually yes because a country says that men and women are equal they are. Further more women have proven themselves equal to men in every way and ability. Next truly strong men accept women as equals. It is only the insecure men that feel the need to dominate a woman to make up for their short comings. The Amazon woman is coming back to this world and the patriarchal slime that dosen't accept this will be tossed by the wayside.
They are rational they base their findings on reason and not their emotional issues as we do. Next prostitution, open relationships are good things and further more there is no attack on the family other then the patriarchal version of the family. There is no attack on truth either but rather an attack on the lie of patriarchy and male dominance. Also you are wrong again being strong is not a masculine quality. Strength is found both in women and in men. There is no quality that is essentially intrinsic to one gender. Also feminine thinking has given us a peaceful cohesive society. Where as patriarchy and male dominance only gives us violence, conflict, abuse and utter depravity. It is no coincidence the more patriarchal a country is the more of a shit hole it becomes.
Why not? What reasons do psychologists give for this? And what gives them the authority to say what is normal or not?
"These things are completely different." No their not, just like a vegan can be conditioned to eat meat and to enjoy it as well so I can become homo or bisexual.
"Also you say that people can not be conditioned to do things that they do not want to do and that you could never be conditioned to be gay and yet know you say that homosexuality can be conditioned." No this is not what I said a hetrosexual cannot have homosexual sex but their is not reason why they cannot be conditioned into homosexuality. Just look at people say the members of Jim Jones cult who killed their children. Now I am sure before they joined his cult they would never think killing their children would be moral. But after being indoctrinated into it they did. This arugment is very easy to understand so stop talking nonsense.
"Evidence showing the inborn nature of homosexuality is that if one twin is gay then the other twin will be far more likely to be gay as well." The study you are talking about says that 52% of monozygotic (MZ) brothers and 22% of the dizygotic twins were concordant for homosexuality. And this is your "rock solid evidence" is it?
"Next you can be conditioned to commit homosexual acts but you can not be conditioned to change your sexuality." Sorry if you enjoy homosexual sex and are atrracted to people of the same sex that is changing your sexuality. You are trying to redefine your way out of it, just like christians try to keep their God as ill defined as possible so as to avoid attack you are doing the same here.
"The fact that we have such a great and cohesive society as we do know comes from the equality of the sexes." "Equality" is a pipe dream because some law of a country says men and women are equal does not make it so. Just like those fools who were the founding fathers came up with their self evident lie "All men are created equal". So no because it is written on a piece of paper by some lunatics does not make it so.
"In order to save the world we must destroy patriarchy as it only breeds evil." Who is this "we" men or women? Women can never be the masters or equals of men, truly strong men will never accept such a thing, nor should they.
"they are ruled by rational people there is no reason to doubt their findings unless of course you are science deniers like yourself." Because science may not be run by religion does not mean it is not run by believers. Many scientists are believers because they don`t believe in God does not mean they are rational.
"can be strong and brave and be feminine." No being strong is a masculine quality not feminine.
"The majority of evil and societal discord comes from patriarchy and male dominance." Well I think the exact opposite. All these things like prostitution, open relationships the attack on the family and the very attack on truth itself comes from femine thinking poisoning our minds.
Well it is normal to find certain members of your family attractive as they very well may be. However it is not normal to have sex with them.
I have given you proof all evidence shows that homosexuality is wired from birth as it is put in every species and clearly discernable from an early age. Also all attempts to change ones sexuality have been shown to fail and even many organizations which purpose this say that they can only change your behavior not your sexuality. Evidence showing the inborn nature of homosexuality is that if one twin is gay then the other twin will be far more likely to be gay as well. All of the evidence shows these things to be true and can easily be read on psychological websites. Next you can be conditioned to commit homosexual acts but you can not be conditioned to change your sexuality. These things are completely different. Also you say that people can not be conditioned to do things that they do not want to do and that you could never be conditioned to be gay and yet know you say that homosexuality can be conditioned. It seems you flip flop on your argument.
They may be human but again they have the expertise and the skills to ascertain the facts and give us the information. Also since religion has no more control over the sciences and they are ruled by rational people there is no reason to doubt their findings unless of course you are science deniers like yourself. Next no we need more femininity further more you can be strong and brave and be feminine. This trait is not exclusive to masculinity. The majority of evil and societal discord comes from patriarchy and male dominance. The fact that we have such a great and cohesive society as we do know comes from the equality of the sexes. In order to save the world we must destroy patriarchy as it only breeds evil.
Lol your premise is a joke and you have no logic.
How much contact did Jews have with Hindus in their infancy? How many Jews at the time even read Hindu Scriptures? How many serious Historians, archeologists, and theologians will say that Judaism was directly influenced by Hinduism? They have no problem saying that it was influenced by Zoroastriansim, the Sumerians, and Babylonians. Why not so much Hinduism?
More gangbanger logic! Keep up your awesome premises!
Well ex-gangbanger you've done nothing to help your cause. Thanks for your deceit, your lies, your promotion of genocide, cursing people out, promotion of ethnic cleansing, advocation of pulling out as an effective contraception in our day and age, slander against other groups, and overall immaturity.
Stupidity and Malice only changes forms as we've seen through you.
"It's a much better alternative than sodomizing a woman which is exactly what you condoned. "
No it isn't. And getting an IUD is not sodomizing a woman. Wow you're dumb.
No what you yourself said was this "However most psychologists agree that if you act on incest then you are probably mentally ill." So is the actual atrraction "normal" or not?
"it has been proven to be unchangable and is wired into these beings from birth." PROOF?
"As it has been shown conditioning does nothing to change one's sexual orientation." Sorry humans can be conditioned into anything, if you can be conditioned to fly a plane into the world trade centre you can sure as hell be conditioned into homosexuality.
"People who are not psychologists and scientists reasonings are limited because they do not understand these fields." I here the religious claim the same about their prophets and gurus.
"Where as the people in these fields do so you should accept their facts instead of going against them because you don't like what they say." I should not, the psychiatrists in China for example will declare you insane if you disagree with anything the goverment says. Should we trust them? No of course not they are believers in their "religion" and work for the Chinese goverment.
"I have given you evidence that homosexuality is normal,natural and innate." You have given none. So please provide some ROCK SOLID evidence not the opinion of the majority.
"Next scientists are more knowledgable in matters of truth and knowledge then the general population as I said before they have the knowledge and expertise to give us the facts and you do not." No they are not they are human like everone else. And like many other people they have beliefs and they can use their "authority" to sway the masses and of course they can lie and decieve as well. "In fact what this world needs is a good and heavy dose of femininity." No thats what we nedd less of, we need real men to come forward not cowards. All of the evil and insanity in the western world can be traced to the "emancipation of women".
Moreover, it is evident that often those verses are targeted which are peaceful and in doing so there is an attempt to prove that The Quran is violent and Islam in general is violent. This is the talk of the town nowadays, which cant be true . There is no doubt that there are verses in the Quran that deals with fighting and war , but that doesnt prove that the Quran is , as a whole , a book of violence. The reason is that there are many other verses in the Quran that upholds peace. This clealy shows us the fact that the verses deals with specific points and teaches Muslims to act in a particular way when the situation arises. So when you criticize anything you need to be fair and let the readers know that. When you dont do that you are simply a hypocrite. Why all the peaceful verses should be abrogated? What the hell…?
Would you say hinduism INTRODUCED sainthood and spirituality to this world?
You say yes and I leave you.
Whether any verse is abrogated or not is a very critical question as scholars have different opinions in this regard. So, if anybody quotes any person to show that a verse in the Quran is abrogated , this will not act as a proof against anybody. But the most important thing is that many muslims believe that no verse in the Quran has been abrogated; rather they are revealed in accordance with the situation.
So, those who say the verses in the Quran are abrogated may have a point but which verses are abrogated , nobody knows. Therefore, why shooting in the darkness. Yes. Many Muslims do to put forward their argument. But that doesnt prove that some ayas in the Quran are abrogated; this shows that people have different opinions.
Islamophobes, like you guys here all go for it. And you love it, though evidently many Muslims dont agree with you. You stick to the point made some obscure Muslims in one corner of the world and avoid all the people from the mainstream Muslim society. Your choice represents what you are.
You accuse Muslims of taqqiya when you dont know that lyging is grievous sin in Islam. So follow your bigotry and be happy…
I am not very regular. So I may login tomorrow or a week or two later. It is enough if you keep your statement intelligent and brief and create your replies based on the possibilities of counter response so that discussion can be concluded very quickly. The discussion might never be concluded too as we have other things to do too.
If you cared previously we could have this conversation earlier.
Now, it's problematic for me too and I don't know when I will be able to get my next time to login. That's why you should not show 'sarcastic remarks' if you are so confident. What's the harm, you are confident, right?
You say:
1. Vedas are oldest.
2. Vedas have passages that glorify genocide, murder and plunder.
3. That's why Vedas introduced murder, plunder and genocide as a religious duty to the world.
The above points do not matter to me unless I get an answer to my questions below.
I have no problem with your statement 'Vedas introduced murder & plunder as a religious duty to the world' as long as I get to see you accepting hinduism introduced concept of a single God, many gods, religion, spirituality and everything good TOO!
If vedas made people of earth religiously murderous (boosted the natural state / taught murder), then same book made people of earth religiously saint (boosted the natural state / taught sainthood).
Reformation in religion is meaningless. God cannot be reformed. All other religions, e.g. christianity, are meaningless except THE oldest hinduism.
First of all, I must say that Ali Sina likes to create a hype about himself and he savors it. Now, he claims to be an ex-muslims and he may be true. Why then doesnt he come out and start taking part in public debates. He says that Muslims would kill him. Are you crazy? There are a good number of people out there who claim to be Muslims and who are publicly working against Islam. Why arent they killed by now.
………By the way, the story Ali Sina has elaborated with illustration with regard to killing the hindu in Bangladesh in his article is likely to be a pure fiction…
Shrek
Whatever comments you guys have.I'll respond in a few hours as I've got a crazy schedule ahead.
Then my premise still stands.
Hindu vedic ( texts), jewish,christian & muslim texts have passages in them that glorify genocide.However,since Vedas are the oldest,it's only logical to conclude that the Vedas introduced murder & plunder as a religious duty to the world.
advocates pulling out as effective means of contraception"
It's a much better alternative than sodomizing a woman which is exactly what you condoned.
El padrino,
Founder based religions would never win against a principle based religion.
You are kidding yourself, not me, darkfire316 or any hindu.
El padrino,
If you were meaning sarcasm at that time, I didn't get it. I really thought that you changed your thought.
Had it occurred to me at that time that you were playing taqqiya in answering, I would have shown you right then how strong logically you are.
darkfire316,
I expect all non-muslims in this site to be mature. Over time, I found out few aren't.
I can waste my time over immature muslims only.
This El padrino is a 2 year old kid thinking criticism of religion is a kids game. It IS if you are an atheist, not if you are any kind of a believer in god.
You can post lies, facts whatever against hinduism.
I was not bothered until I read your sentence yesterday "Yes, I was not attacking zoroastrianism but hinting at hinduism".
WTF did you think of yourself? You think I was wasting my time while giving you my ear? You paid back by lying and did not have the guts to tell me the truth?
Worthless piece of a christian!
Judaism reformed became christianity. So christianity had the advantage of reviewing and modifying.
Hinduism reformed became buddhism. So buddhism had the advantage of reviewing and modifying.
Pitting Hinduism against Christianity is not right in one way.
If we set Buddhism against Christianity, god knows how poorly christianity will lose.
Oriental religions would mean religions of the east – India, China, Japan etc.
However, all religions are in essence oriental. Abrahamic faiths and zoroastrianism cannot be occidental unless jerusalem, saudi arabia and persia (iran) are considered West.
True occidental religions were greek, roman, norse and celtic (pagan religions).
Ex-gangbanger.I was a kid back then,I did stupid things,fortunatley I did nothing too serious.Except for getting in a few fights & experimenting with substances.
I since went to community college and did a course on travel and tourism,whic is obviously my current career too.
Not easy for a kid growing up in a tough neighborhood.
"Vedas,Puranas,Mahabharata,Manu & Gita condemns atheism,criticizing & questioning religion. "
So I'm going to take the word of gangbanger, who constantly lies, calls for ethnic cleansing, slanders other people and groups not knowing at all what they stand for, advocates pulling out as effective means of contraception, goes out of his way to deny genocide, who as of 2010 said he didn't know any Hindus personally, and provides false context to defame Hindusism….. and believe what he has to say about the Vedas, Puranas, Mahabharata, Gita & Manu?
I'm all in!
I also did not understand sarcasm at first.
Please. You don't know anything about being a Hindu. Don't quote me Hindu scriptures and act like you know what you're talking about. Let's not forget how you lie about the context and the scriptures themselves. Hindus can take anything they want out of their scriptures.
I won't deny that there are many who call themselves hindu atheists,just like there are atheist jews,atheist christians but all those who take this stance do so despite their scriptures condemning atheism.
Vedas,Puranas,Mahabharata,Manu & Gita condemns atheism,criticizing & questioning religion.
You're an idiot for doing it for 2 years with your girlfriend risking her health and her future when you could've gone to a clinic and gotten cheap if not free effective contraceptives. You're dumber than I thought."
Yes,I admit I was an irresponsible teenager,thinking with my penis.I was too lazy to get free condoms at the clinic.Too broke too buy contraceptives & too irresponsible to care for consequences.
I'm also an ex-gangbanger.You might want to add that to your list of stupid things i've done in my lifetime.
But people grow up eventually.I'm now a responsible dad who cares & provides for his family
============
Um….no and that's not the point. The same procedure could be theoretically used on humans as on animals and it has. "
Sticking stones inside a camel's vagina might work in the desert but I won't dare to try that on a woman
Next no they were not conditioned to have gay sex in roman times it only allowed their bisexual nature to come out. Next you are wrong again people do revolting things on a daily basis. When you put great pressure on someone you can make them do a great many things they find revolting. When a homosexual forces himself into a relationship with woman due to the societal pressure he caves into this relationship and has sex with the woman even though he finds the sex revolting. He of course hides his feelings usually having to visualize someone of the same sex. This can of course happen over years as these people are too psychologically pressured by religion or society to keep living the lie. The fact that they might have family too would aid their compulsion to hide their sexuality. I guarantee you if you were pressured like many homosexuals were pressured you would have sex with a man or do things you find revolting. Your argument falls on it's head as psychology shows that once people receive great pressure they can do many things they wouldn't normally do.
Next it is not an appeal to popularity the experts all agree and the facts all show that incest is not a proper sexual act.
As I mentioned mostly they visualized about members of the opposite sex when they had sex with them
Next scientists are more knowledgable in matters of truth and knowledge then the general population as I said before they have the knowledge and expertise to give us the facts and you do not. You like many anti science people ignore science when you either do not understand it or do not like the findings. As for Christianity there is not attack on manhood in this world. In fact with Christianity and Islam they are male supremacist religions. They are sexist and homophobic. Because of them women have been made into patriarchal slaves. In fact what this world needs is a good and heavy dose of femininity.
You should trust the people whose expertise in these fields gives them the ability and jurisdiction to give you the facts and information. People who are not psychologists and scientists reasonings are limited because they do not understand these fields. Where as the people in these fields do so you should accept their facts instead of going against them because you don't like what they say. I have given you evidence that homosexuality is normal,natural and innate. It is found in every living species, it has been proven to be unchangable and is wired into these beings from birth. As for Ali Sina's assertions he has been debunked by many people on this thread. As it has been shown conditioning does nothing to change one's sexual orientation. Everything I have said makes sense and is easily documented and researchable however you ignore the facts because you don't like them.
Just because he was one of the people who voted to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder does not mean that all of his views are orthodox. Further more while it is true that what the majority says is not always true. It is true that all of the evidence and facts show that it is not a disorder. However now we have people who base their view and findings on reality and not their own emotional preferences. You should accept the facts when the people whose expertise in these respective fields gives you them.
No I am not trying to redefine the definition of homosexuality. Homosexuality means having sole attraction to members of the same sex or dominant attraction towards the same sex. Next the Kinsey studies amongst other things show this phenomena of sexuality. Further more this does not contradict the genetics argument. Your sexual orientation is determined by polygenetic traits.
"As for the Roman comparison as I mentioned before the majority of human beings are bisexual with leanings toward one particular gender." No proof of that at all.
"In Roman times when homosexuality was more rampant it allowed men and women to express their bisexual nature." Really or maybe they were conditoned by the society they were brought up in?
"did not get the same ammount of gratification as the did with those of the opposite sex in these encounters." Sorry you don`t know that and people cannot do something they find revolting even if some modern porn stars could the vast majority of people can`t.
"Visualized the gender they wanted while they were having sex to keep the arousal." More nonsense we are expected to believe somehow a pure homosexual can force themselves to have a relationship that lasts years and have a few kids because they were "visualising". You are talking pure nonsense no one can force themselves to do something they find disgusting. I cannot so much as touch another man let alone have a sexual relationship that lasts decades no I just don`t buy it.
"As for incest most psychologists and all major psychological organizations agree that incest is on it's own not a proper thing to do." What do you mean "most" this is a logical fallacy Ad Populum (Appeal to Popularity)
"You are basically no different from creationists as you deny the facts given to you by the experts all because you don't like what the facts show due to your emotional attachment to these ideas." Well I am not a creationist but I admit I find the scientific enterprise (just generally speaking) a dishonest one. Scientists are not to trusted more in matters of truth than the general population. A Good example of this is quantum physics when they start talking about things being "uncaused" this has nothing to do with science (as science does not answer whether things are caused or not) and certainly not philosophical truth but a kind of religious belief hence I take what scientists say with a pinch of salt. No I am not against homosexuality based on Christianity actually I have an intense dislike (you could say hatred) of that religion. In my view the attacks on manhood can actually be traced back to that madman who hates everything that is brave, strong and ferocious (I.e. everything that is masculine). And no I am not emotional attached (or at least I try not to be)to any idea.
"Also you should trust psychologists as they are the ones with the expertise in these fields and they are the ones with the evidence and these facts." You should not trust anybody blindly the only thing you should trust is your own reason.
"It also does not change that all of the evidence shows that homosexuality is normal, natural, innate and found in all species." I have seen no hard evidence that homosexuality is "normal, natural and innate" all I see is hypothesis. The best argument you have (and the only real argument) is that homosexuality is found in animals but even then Ali Sina`s explanation of Pavlov conditioning makes more sense than what you are talking about.
That was not one lone article written by a nobody the author who wrote it was one of the people who voted to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder. "does not change the fact that all evidence in psychology agrees that it is a mental disorder." What you mean to say here is "what the majority of psyhcologists believe". Because the majority says it, it does not mean its right.
Sorry you are just trying to redefine what homosexuality means. "bisexual but with preferences to one side there have been many studies and findings showing this." What studies are these? Also this theory seems to contridict the "gay gene" theory you claimed as evidence earlier.
It can also be defeated by atheism (although you can be an atheist and still be Hindu) and by Buddhism. I don't consider Buddhism oriental as Buddha was born in Nepal and taught all over India. Even in the case of Buddhism, a Hindu can believe everything in Buddhism and almost nothing in Hinduism and still call himself a Hindu. Many people in my family fall in that category.
I would know that because he quit messing with men. From what he was saying he was merely experimenting with their heterosexuality. As for the Roman comparison as I mentioned before the majority of human beings are bisexual with leanings toward one particular gender. In Roman times when homosexuality was more rampant it allowed men and women to express their bisexual nature. However the ones that prefered the opposite sex still settled down with them and did not get the same ammount of gratification as the did with those of the opposite sex in these encounters. For the ones who were completely straight they probably did as gays do in straight relationships. Visualized the gender they wanted while they were having sex to keep the arousal. However most likely said men who were totally heterosexual would keep away from homosexual encounters.
As for incest most psychologists and all major psychological organizations agree that incest is on it's own not a proper thing to do. Whether it is a psychological disorder I can not say because it is one thing to find certain members of your family attractive. It is another to act on it. However most psychologists agree that if you act on incest then you are probably mentally ill. Also you should trust psychologists as they are the ones with the expertise in these fields and they are the ones with the evidence and these facts. One article debating whether pedophilia is a mental disorder does not change the fact that it is and that overwhelmingly the evidence shows that it is. The same is true for incest. It also does not change that all of the evidence shows that homosexuality is normal, natural, innate and found in all species. You are basically no different from creationists as you deny the facts given to you by the experts all because you don't like what the facts show due to your emotional attachment to these ideas. Also am I right you are most likely against homosexuality based on Christianity?
The Kinsey Scale is one such scale. Further more most psyhcologists do not say that pedophilia is not a mental disorder. One lone article questioning whether it is by a few psychologists does not change the fact that all evidence in psychology agrees that it is a mental disorder.
This dictionary definition is misleading. What a homosexual is from a psychological standpoint is someone with an exclusive attraction to the same sex. Next as for the proof that the majority of humanity is bisexual but with preferences to one side there have been many studies and findings showing this.
Ali Sina has proved that pen is mightier than the sword. His analysis is shock and awe for Sheila; her defences have crumbled, she's disoriented
What El Padrino clearly doesn't get is manifested in his own words:
'For the record,I will try to limit my discussions of hinduism on these forums as much as I possibly can'
This guy is enjoying in FFI. 🙂
FFI is for discussion on hinduism !!! This retard couldn't get it after so many notices !!!
How would El padrino have behaved had he been born a muslim? I cannot imagine.
It is clear from Alisina's exposes as well as from historical and contemporary evidence that 1. Muhammad was a Nracicist, Rapist, misogynist, misanthrope, murderer, pedophile 2. Muslims who adulate Muhammad end up acquiring these Ignoble Demonic ( satanic) qualities of Muhammad 3. Hindu scriptures refer to wars between Demons & Devas ( roughly equated to angels). This guy Muhammad seems to be the perfect conduit selected by Demons to demolish all traces of noble values from the Humankind
I pray that Alisina's noble efforts fructify peacefully & earth will be free from Islam , the Demonic doctrine. I also request Muslims to drop their Egos & Rigidity to reclaim their intrinsic humanness.
You are right, Mr. Sina, all sane Humans fear Muslims while they offer prayers in Mosques. I hope a day will come when Muslims are no longer feared but respected for their Noble qualities.
"I'm not denying that LAM is more effective but its duration usually lasts for 6 months. "
Yea, actually you were. Your entire quote.
"Breastfeeding as a natural birth control only works for mothers that are breastfeeding.
Coitus interruptus is natural,free & its method doesn't have an expiry date,unlike breastfeeding. "
"This would obviously depend on where one ejaculates.In my experience it has worked."
You're an idiot for doing it for 2 years with your girlfriend risking her health and her future when you could've gone to a clinic and gotten cheap if not free effective contraceptives. You're dumber than I thought.
"Are camels indigenous to every part of the globe"
Um….no and that's not the point. The same procedure could be theoretically used on humans as on animals and it has.
"IUD requires a doctor to insert a piece plastic into the womb.This does not qualify as a natural contraceptive"
Look up what the Arabs did to camels. The same thing can be done to human females even though it's not as safe as having a doctor perform the procedure obviously.
"Yes, I was not attacking zoroastrianism but hinting at hinduism."
And he admits to not only being a deceitful person but bashing another belief system he knows nothing about to achieve his goals.
Whatta guy!
"However he obviously didn't feel as much satisfaction as he did with members of the opposite sex." You would know that how?
"They have sex with these people but in their hearts they are not attracted to them and usually have to take stimulants to get aroused." Well in roman times homosexuality was rampant and they had no stimulants then, so how do you explain that?
"No this is not true just because you have an attraction to someone of the same sex does not make you homosexual." Really so who is a homosexual then? I copied this from an online dictionary "sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex." I am using the dictionary definition so what is your definition?
"In fact as most psychologists have stated human beings are mostly bisexual with leanings towards attractions to one gender." What the hell does that mean I am 99% hetrosexual? And where is the proof of this? I would not trust these psychologists like i showed before they are even are trying to say pedophilia is not a mental disorder and I even heard the same once on a tv program about incest.
"Yes, I was not attacking zoroastrianism but hinting at hinduism."
El Padrino lied to me that time by saying "I say Zoroastrianism is the one that introduced plunder & genocide to the world"
El Padrino, YOU were not BRAVE ENOUGH before me, your opponent.
Do I need to think that you know anything about hinduism. Oh yes! You know so much.
What is the credibility of your knowledge when you lie, deceive openly in this rationalist forum?
Zero.
El Padrino,
I don't bring up christianity in FFI not because I don't have any desire to bash this religion for its utter irrationality and crimes but because this is not the forum to do that.
I assure you I can not only take you on, but your highest authority on christianity. I am not kidding when I say this.
Whenever there has been a logical war between the religions, hinduism always won. I don't live in a dream world while stating this.
Hinduism can only be defeated, if at all, logically by oriental religions.
Logic doesn't mean 'christian logic' or 'muslim logic'. I assure you a liar like you cannot know how strong a foundation in logic I have.
"Yes, I was not attacking zoroastrianism but hinting at hinduism."
You remember that you had this conversation with me?
Now you are telling that you are not BRAVE ENOUGH to tell me what you mean in your mean mind?
Rest in peace, El Padrino, I search for integrity of character. If you lie, you lose it.
Regarding hinduism, you have the audacity to state:
"I can confidently say,I know hinduism better than most non-hindus on this site"
I assure you, the moron of an El Padrino, you don't even know bible. Have you heard muslims saying 'muslims are better christians than christians themselves'?
I would have believed if you had stood your ground without retracting like a true scumbag as I showed you above.
I don't retract. Otherwise, you will find me apologizing and not putting up a brave face in front of opponent.
You are a pathetic loser – worse than a muslim loser.
"Zoroastrianism influenced many religions,however some scholars say Hinduism influenced Zoroastrianism & vice versa.
So we can no longer blame the jewish faith for the invention of Islam,since the jewish faith has an earlier origin.It's either Hinduism or Zoroastrianism,one of these faiths introduced warfare,world domination,plunder & genocide as a religious & pious duty to the world. "
Yes, I was not attacking zoroastrianism but hinting at hinduism.
I'm not denying that LAM is more effective but its duration usually lasts for 6 months.
======================
Failure rates for coitus interruptus is 25%. Why would anyone be so stupid to use something like that when even preejaculate fluid can get you pregnant."
This would obviously depend on where one ejaculates.In my experience it has worked.
====================
The Arabs did it"
Are camels indigenous to every part of the globe
=====================
. And IUDs are more than 90% effective.
IUD requires a doctor to insert a piece plastic into the womb.This does not qualify as a natural contraceptive
Failure rates for coitus interruptus is 25%. Why would anyone be so stupid to use something like that when even preejaculate fluid can get you pregnant.
"Breastfeeding as a natural birth control only works for mothers that are breastfeeding."
Yea but it's still more effective.
"or using IUDs (rocks) that camel herders used to use on camels in Arabia."
The Arabs did it. And IUDs are more than 90% effective. But hey you don't believe in facts.
Breastfeeding as a natural birth control only works for mothers that are breastfeeding.
Coitus interruptus is natural,free & its method doesn't have an expiry date,unlike breastfeeding.
====================
or using IUDs (rocks) that camel herders used to use on camels in Arabia. "
Right!You should better stick with star wars & comic books.
I agree artificial contraceptions are very effective but I was refering to a natural prevention that worked for me as a teenager for more than 2years in my first serious relationship.
"I haven't attacked judaism & atheism for a while because I changed my views on them"
Lol so you lie about it and vilify atheist and promoted ethnic cleansing of the Jews, but now changed your mind? Call me unconvinced.
"As far as zoroastrianism is concerned,I can't vilify it because I know nothing of that religion."
Oh really? El Padrino said:
"I say Zoroastrianism is the one that introduced plunder & genocide to the world"
Sarcastic remark huh? Before that you wrote:
"Zoroastrianism influenced many religions,however some scholars say Hinduism influenced Zoroastrianism & vice versa.
So we can no longer blame the jewish faith for the invention of Islam,since the jewish faith has an earlier origin.It's either Hinduism or Zoroastrianism,one of these faiths introduced warfare,world domination,plunder & genocide as a religious & pious duty to the world. "
Doesn't sound like sarcasm to me. Why do you constantly lie?
"However,hinduism is another story.This religion has gone undetected for too long & produced incredible evils.And I can confidently say,I know hinduism better than most non-hindus on this site."
Please. You know nothing about Hinduism. You can quote texts all you like even in context if they're bad, and a Hindu can take it with a grain of salt. Furthermore I loved your lies regarding the number of people hindus killed, how you denied the genocide by the british, and how you lied about the context of the witch hunts.
You know nothing about anything that you talk about.
No, I just don't enjoy liars, hatemongers, and dumb people constantly vilifying atheism, judaism, hinduism, and zoroastrianism on an antiislamic site."
I haven't attacked judaism & atheism for a while because I changed my views on them.As far as zoroastrianism is concerned,I can't vilify it because I know nothing of that religion.Plus I told you before that was only a sarcastic remark.However,hinduism is another story.This religion has gone undetected for too long & produced incredible evils.And I can confidently say,I know hinduism better than most non-hindus on this site.
For the record,I will try to limit my discussions of hinduism on these forums as much as I possibly can but I when I have enough time I'll share my knowledge of hinduism on you tube & facebook instead.
Do you read?
I'm sorry but if animals all over the world can exhibit overwhelming homosexual tendencies then a person CAN BE BORN GAY slant overwhelmingly towards homosexuality"
"Your appeal to nature implied that incest is morally acceptable,because it's practiced in the animal kingdom. "
No I never said incest was moral. Again you lie. Why do you make this so easy for me.
Keep lying. I didn't say animals are the moral yardstick for humans.
And why is homosexuality seen throughout the animal kingdom?"
I'm sorry but if animals all over the world can exhibit overwhelming homosexual tendencies then a person can be born gay slant overwhelmingly towards homosexuality"
All the somersaults won't change what you said.I put it in bold.You deliberately used animal behavior to justify homosexuality amongst humans.
Who's the liar now?
==================
Where did I say incest was ok and where did I say animals were the moral yardstick for humans?"
Your appeal to nature implied that incest is morally acceptable,because it's practiced in the animal kingdom.
Dr. Sina Global Warming is Climate Change. Uniform warming doesn't necessarily have to take place. Places that are cold can get much colder as you showed us.
Can I send you my friend's email? He is a climate scientist. You have nothing to lose by talking to him. He's very willing to listen and hear you out. Just yesterday he had an hour long chat with my other friend who doesn't believe in global warming. He'll just give you the data and the facts, his interpretation, and he'll discuss yours.
Well I guess you never heard of breast feeding. That acts as a natural form of birth control or using IUDs (rocks) that camel herders used to use on camels in Arabia.
I'm not saying that these things aren't outdated. All I'm saying is…. Once again you amaze me with your knowledge!
"First of all why the need to attack me personally? You still hung up over my attacks against hinduism?"
No, I just don't enjoy liars, hatemongers, and dumb people constantly vilifying atheism, judaism, hinduism, and zoroastrianism on an antiislamic site. I'd expect it from Muslims as that's their MO. I wouldn't expect it from a Christian. But hey, I guess you don't care about the agenda of this site, or the values of Christianity (as you called be an SOB in spanish and MF as well) and are here for your own insecure reasons as you continue to post these same comments again and again despite seeing the backlash it creates, and having the moderators and Ali Sina ask you to stop. Hey Padrino, do you see the REPORT button next to each comment? You can press it if its something offensive you know instead of ranting all the time. Oh… well I guess you never noticed before.
"I never said YOU said those exact things.But you did try to justify human homosexuality by showing us that animals exhibit the same tendencies"
No… Read. I was arguing with ali sina that it was genetic and not a disorder as seen in the animal examples.
"In your above comment you used the same argument that gay rights activist use.
ie.because homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom & humans are animals therefore homosexuality is natural."
Yea and you continue to show your dislike of reading as usual.
"This is of course using irrational animal behavior as a moral yardstick for humans."
Keep lying. I didn't say animals are the moral yardstick for humans.
"How does a parent & its mature children suffer if they engage in incest.You could argue that their offspring might be born defective.Not if it's via sodomy.It's an extreme example but this could easily be justified by refering to animals who engage in similar activities."
Where did I say incest was ok and where did I say animals were the moral yardstick for humans? Oh yea I forgot. You don't read anything that I write or anything that doesn't agree with your views for that matter. Oh yea, thanks for that example by the way. Real classy.
Sorry, i meant to reply the above post to delyssandra.
It's really ridiculous how they censored you; they're only fooling themselves in trying to hide the whole ugly truth on Islam when there are canonical sources of Islam available for all to read.
Creationists and science deniers consider themselves free thinkers because they reject evolution because they disagree with it even though most scientists accept it and it is proven. You reject all of the evidence and facts which show that homosexuality is natural and not a disorder and assert that the people bringing forth this information are lieing. This is a tactic used by creationists, flat earthers, holocaust deniers and countless other groups. You ignore what the experts and what the facts say by people who know better then you simply because you retained your Islamic prejudice of disliking homosexuality. You also retain your moralistic nature of wanting the government to dictate human morality. All of this you have let to leave behind of your Islamic belief. As a moral nihilist and a Pagan I reject all of these foolish things and accept the facts.
I prefer the term heterosexism because like sexism and racism it accurately fits describes the hatred people feel towards a group. You are a homophobe or heterosexist both mean the same it is just that the former is more widely known but the later more accurately reflects the phenomena. Next the mark of the free thinker is one who evaluates the facts and accepts them. It is not someone who rejects the facts that has been presented to him by the experts.
It is not a lie it has been proven to be so from the countless studies and findings of said scientists and psychologists on the subject. Further more global warming is not a lie. Climate change has been proven and all major scientist groups agree on this. As for homophobia it is not a lie. The word has come to mean a hatred or fear of homosexuals. Though mainly it is hatred for homosexuals and homsoexuality. Personally
Yeah, but Muhammad said, don’t do it. I think we should encourage them to use condom.
They all lie my dear. Never believe something because most people say it or most authorities say it. Until a few years ago few people dared to say Islam is the problem. They blamed the Muslims. I knew someone had to tell the truth even when telling the truth was not politically correct.
Another lie is Global warming. Until recently this lie was sacrosanct. Now several scientists have come forth to say it is a lie. See this http://www.france24.com/en/20120130-freeze-kills-…
Homophobia is also a lie. I just porved that the very term is a fallacy.
The mark of a freethinker is to think for himself and evaluate the facts and not follow the crowd like a sheep. Don’t be afraid of thinking differently or going against the majority. If something does not make sense to you don’t believe in it because everyone else does. If you are wrong, you will correct yourself. It is much better to come to a wrong conclusion using your own reasoning than be right following the masses blindly.
I am not better then him in this regard but all of the major psychological organizations are most certainly better then Dr. Sina. They all say that homosexuality is not a disorder, is normal, natural beneficial and can not be changed. This has been proven though the study of psychology and biology.
I just want to add that I BELIEVE natures best way of human population control is coitus interruptus
First of all why the need to attack me personally?You still hung up over my attacks against hinduism?
I said my above comments were my opinions not necessarily facts.If I'm wrong,show me.
You said:"I never said animal behavior is the yardstick for human behavior"
I never said YOU said those exact things.But you did try to justify human homosexuality by showing us that animals exhibit the same tendencies
I'm sorry but if animals all over the world can exhibit overwhelming homosexual tendencies then a person can be born gay slant overwhelmingly towards homosexuality.
In your above comment you used the same argument that gay rights activist use.
ie.because homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom & humans are animals therefore homosexuality is natural.
This is of course using irrational animal behavior as a moral yardstick for humans.So why stop there?
How does a parent & its mature children suffer if they engage in incest.You could argue that their offspring might be born defective.Not if it's via sodomy.It's an extreme example but this could easily be justified by refering to animals who engage in similar activities.
No this is not true just because you have an attraction to someone of the same sex does not make you homosexual. In fact as most psychologists have stated human beings are mostly bisexual with leanings towards attractions to one gender. Also Hitchens like many people were experimenting with same sex encounters as many people are curious of different sexual things. However he obviously didn't feel as much satisfaction as he did with members of the opposite sex. This is not uncommon as sometimes gay people have sex with people of the opposite sex in attempts to turn themselves straight or because they are curious and the sex is always unfulfilling. Next these heterosexual porn stars are not homosexual. They have sex with these people but in their hearts they are not attracted to them and usually have to take stimulants to get aroused. As for lesbians for women it really dosen't matter if they are aroused with they have sex as all they really need is to be penetrated and act like they are aroused. Sex for men however is harder because they must be aroused in order to have sex. Also lesbians in porn usually stick to lesbian porn as like gay porn it pays more then straight porn.
"I don't know any gay men personally.I've seen a lot hang around in public toilets watching other guys take a piss.This is not enough to conclude that all gays are perverts."
Oh and thanks for contributing so much ali sina's websites like you always do.
Lol you always provide half information for everything. Keep reminding me how dumb you are.
You forgot animals caring for their young, animals taking care of each other and looking out for sick members in their family unit, animals sharing food with their own species, oh and how bout hate being nonexistant in the animal kingdom?
I never said animal behavior is the yardstick for human behavior. You implied that yourself. I'm saying if homosexuality is in the animal kingdom then it's bound to be in our genetic code.
Since when is cannabalism, killing your young, engaging in incest, killing trespassers the same as homosexuality? Does it have the same consequences? Do people suffer any less for not engaging in your pathetic examples?
Ali Sina wrote an article on male female social dynamics and how men should be unashamed to show masculinity as evolutionary inherited by animal ancestors. Should we ignore those inherent courtship roles and suffer and be confused like men are today?
You're a joke.
Having said that as your true admirer on islamic subjects and appreciate all the genuine debates and article to expose lies and deception of this ugly cult.I should inform you that in homosextulaity you mentioned it is a learned behaviour and has nothing to do with genetic .I would like to know how you came up with this conclusion .All the observations and reading that I do points to the contrary.When you call dawkins , a scientist and a biologist a lier I would like to know who should we trust for guidance in this matter.
I did not choose to be hetrosextual and when I talk to some homosextuals they mention that from very early age they were attracted to the same sex .I appreciate if you guide me to read some articles that shed some light on this .( a little bit better than a movie that you said on TV a woman reluctantly slept with her friend and then started to like to be a lesian LOL) thanks you .
Hi Mr. Sina. Aren't you proud that people that follow you and respect you in Islamic subjects are not hesitant to argue with you if you say something that does not back up with experience and science , etc.
That is the difference between your site and Islamic site that whatever mullahs or religious leaders say is correct no disagreement allowed.
Some other trade marks:
Peace [TM]
Revert to Islam [TM]
Final Prophet [TM]
Everybody knows:
1. Islam means Peace. Peace means Islam. Peace is an invention by Muhammad, Islam's founder.
2. Nobody 'converts' to Islam, people 'revert' to Islam.
3. There is only 1 final prophet in this world and he needs no introduction.
I think Jihad Corp is Islam's new front for online jihad. They mostly engage in cyber propaganda, disinformation and manipulation. A deadly group of Islamic snakes. Don't often go by what they write and how they comment.
proud pagan _ The evidence for homosexuality is vague and only speculative on your part. There is no scientific evidence oneway or other ,sofar, . SO it is best to consider even what Dr. SINA wrote is his view point . Any way , Dr SINA has Ph.D in psychology and logic – I think . You cant be better than him in this regard – in your speculation.
of course you were offended.what was i thinking?
Maybe telling me why animal behavior is suitable for human morals would have been appreciated.
No you are talking nonsense if you have atrraction to someone of the same ssex you are homosexual. And i am sure Hitchens found the sex "fulfilling" if he didn`t he would not have done it. "Have you ever seen gay for pay porn actors." You just proved my point hetrosexuals can be homosexual. I am not atrracted to men and the very thought of that is disgusting but these porn actors do have sex with members of the same sex. "In fact they usually have to take viagra or stimulants to get an erection." That includes the lesbians I assume?
I look forward to this mighty plan of yours in the near future.
Thanks,John.K.
This homsexual discussion is interesting,it's a real head scratcher.I don't know any gay men personally.I've seen a lot hang around in public toilets watching other guys take a piss.This is not enough to conclude that all gays are perverts.Then there's the testimonies,that they had homosexual feelings as far as they can remember.Which would imply a genetic trait.Then there are happy gays (happy happys).Are they happy in spite of being gay – just like fatties are associated with being happy even though we all know obesity is a disorder?
IMO ,whether or not homosexuality is natural for humans can't be determined by animal behavior.Yes,there are gay animals,insects,whatever but using nature as a moral yardstick would be insane,since many animal species including primates kill their young,animals engage in incest,cannaibalism,animals are territorial & won't hesitate to kill tresppassers,etc.
I'm sure all these instinctual behaviors are passed on genetically but would that make it acceptable if humans did this too?
No a heterosexual can not become a homosexual. He can have sex with the same sex but it will never be fulfilling or natural to him as being with someone of the opposite sex. Have you ever seen gay for pay porn actors. They may have sex with men for money but on the whole they still settle down with women. In fact they usually have to take viagra or stimulants to get an erection.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/SION-Stop-Islamiza…
It sound like a parody of Islam, like when I write "Religion of Peace [TM]"
No! That is a mighty plan that hopefully will shake Islam from its foundation.
Dear Mr.Ali,
Is it SION that you told earlier about your forthcoming great plan?
…That is why we formed SION (Stop Islamization Of Nations) to educate and to unmask Islam…..
…More prominent people are joining SION from all over the world. We are poised to become a powerful international force. And we will go after traitors who sell their country for vote. We will expose them. We know that anytime a politician supports Islam we have to follow the money trail to find a skeleton in their closet. That is what we intend to do….
It is a good news. How can I become a member of SION?
What is Jihad Corp?
Actually you are wrong again no gay person talks about how to become gay. They always say that you either are or not. You can be gay or straight and enter into relations with a person of the sex that you are not attracted to however said relationships are not fulfilling at all. Further more as it has been shown the whole ex gay thing never works. All it causes is for said people to hide themselves and live miserably. In fact many ex gay groups openly say that they can't change your sexuality but rather change your behavior and they have poor "success" rates. Also homosexuality is not a disorder as I have mentioned it is beneficial in species. Neither homosexuality, asexuality, bisexuality or heterosexuality are disorders and no accredited psychologist or scientist says it is. You should leave your Islamic upgringing behind and embrace science.
It is not a disorder though. Nothing in homosexuality causes harm to any spcies but rather it helps them. Further more in the bed bugs it is still homosexuality. These bugs go after both genders indescriminately and are attracted to both sexes. If anything this would show that bisexuality is the norm in these species. Which is actually something that many psychologists and scientists say about bisexuality in ours.
The difference again in the small accounts of necrophilia being in every species is that homosexuality is far from abnormal in the animal kingdom. Point in fact there are all female, all LESBIAN species that reproduce through parthenogenesis. Next yes gays have romantic love and spiritual love with people of the same sex and there is nothing wrong with them. You are using yourself as a heterosexual (presumably) man in order to view gay people and the view is not applicable. Also let me guess your view is mainly based on your religion right?
Necrophilia is not very common amongst animals nor is it a natural biological orientation nor are species intrinsicly wired to commit it. Homosexuality however is found in every species and unlike necrophilia it is natural and beneficial. Next same sex couples feel the same romantic love that heterosexuals feel towards each other. The same feelings and affections. You can be friends and love someone of your own sex but it is not the same as the love between two people of the same sex. Their love is no different then opposite sex unions. The only difference is the parts that are used. Any psychologist will tell you this.
http://loonwatchexposed.blogspot.com/
Go read the posts with the loons at Loonwatch…how they censored me…typical muslims
http://loonwatchexposed.blogspot.com/
Hi everyone,
Great debate, Dr. Sina.
Please, go to the blog I just created about LoonWatch.com….
"It has been shown that when gays try to be straight they can not change their orientation but it only causes them mental anguish as all psychological and scientific organizations testify." Really but a hetrosexual (which is certainly natural) can become homosexual? Ah but of course the old true scotsman fallacy "not a true homosexual".
Hitchens is not a former homosexual he experimented with homosexuality but is very much straight. It has been shown that when gays try to be straight they can not change their orientation but it only causes them mental anguish as all psychological and scientific organizations testify.
Again incest and pedophilia are not very common and damaging to species where as homosexuality is normal and beneficial to species. Also homosexuals feel love just as much as heterosexuals. The fact that you think they do not shows you do not know much about science or psychology.
"People are entitled to be wrong, I was wrong on this issue myself. In my long debate with Yameen Zakaria I said to him the same things you tell me now. But when I looked into it, I realized I had been misled and changed my views."
Yes I remember reading about that part in your debate. If I come across evidence that can change my mind, I will apologize. But in the mean time, I thank you for this exchange. Best of luck.
Although, yes even insects can be conditioned, I doubt that's what's happening here.
The beg bug through years of evolution and yes conditioning too has it programmed in its genetic code to do what's its doing. Its the same as salmon being programmed to go back home after millions of years of evolution.
"So you quoted two commentators, Sundried Atheist and Enlightened 25 to find me guilty by association." Miss Musaji if you are going to quote me then at least have the balls to come here and debate with me. If not don`t be a coward by writing on your site where of course I or it seems anyone else who disagrees with you is not allowed to comment.
Dr. Sina,
The dog was trained to be conditioned by the scientists. However who is conditioning wild animals and how? This is contained experiment. The implications regarding sexuality, other species, and their setting in a natural environment has not been tested. That's not hard data.
I agree with you about pedophila.
I only bring up insects to show you that it having a genetic component is possible. After all they found a genetic component in fruit flies.
Assuming insects mate with the same sex for pleasure, again conditioning response is a good answer. Even a flee can be conditioned to respond in a certain way. But as I said, some insects such as bed bugs use other males as carriers of their genes. So realy the sex happens between male and female insects even though one dominat male may use other males as proxy to spread his genes far and wide. If I am a bed bug and I stab the belly of ten male bugs with my sharp penis and deposit some of my sperms in them, any time these guys find a femal bug and stab her belly with their sharp penis they pass my genes into her. Let them do the stabbing, the little bugs will be all my progenee. Ingenius! Furthermore stabbing the belly of a male bug or a female bug feels the same. So it is not really homosexuality as we understand it. I suppose these bugs don’t know which bug is make and which one is female and they stab any bug that crosses their path at random. The result is the same. The one who stabs more will have more chilren.
Bed bugs is good example for your arguement. However fruit flies attract males of the same sex and mate with them through pheromones. Scientists have found a genetic component to this. Furthermore there is evidence that dragonflies and other species like lizards (that's where it gets really interesting) of the same sex mate with each other as well.
I don't deny that insect homosexuality is not the same as we know it. I'm just saying that if they can find a genetic component like that in fruit flies and find dragonflies mating with the same sex in the wild, then it can't just be a disorder.
If you looked it up it should be self-evident. If an individual or an animal is conditioned to respond when a neutral stimulus (in the case of homosexuality someone of the same sex, or it the case of fetishism, a piece of a woman’s apparel) is presented along with a stimulus of some significance (in our example, sexual pleasure) the individual will link the two together and may become sexually aroused by objects that are not sexually meaningful, such as a person of the same sex or a woman’s shoe.
This association can take place at any stage of the life of the individual. But like all conditional responses, the younger the person the stronger will be the link between the stimulus and the response. Animals can also be conditioned. In fact the experiment was first performed by Pavlov on his dog. This explains why animals become homosexual – for the same reason we human become homosexual.
This also explains why molested children are in higher risk to become pedophile.
But let us put the insects out of this discussion because they have a very different form of sexuality.
The evidence is all through out nature and your sexuality has been shown to be inborn and unchangable. Plus in all species there is homosexuality showing that it comes from nature. Next no the purpose of sex is pleasure and procreation. Plus since most species have sex for pleasure and procreation is a mere side effect and also not all sexual actions in species lead to birth or can lead to birth it has been shown to be for pleasure as well. Next homosexuals feel love and attraction to the same sex in the same way that heterosexuals feel attraction to the opposite sex. It is not at all masturbation and only ignorant people say this
Except pedophilia has been show to be negative and cause harm to other people. Homosexuality causes no harm. Next if you overpopulate in general you either starve or get eaten. However homosexuality is put into nature as well as sterility. Gay genes are in nature for this specific reason to prevent species from reaching said calamity. Also pedophilia is an aberation in the human species and it is hardly universal as homosexuality is. Homosexuality unlike pedophilia is normal, natural and found in all species and over all is beneficial.
* not necessarily conditioned in the animal kingdom
Yes, but sexual paraphilia is not homosexuality which is a trait that is not conditioned and present thoughout the natural order.
Ok, Dr. Sina. I looked it up. Please explain the context when you get time.
Look up into Pavlove’s experiment. It explains the homosexual behavor in animals. As for insects, it is a very different story. Insects don’t have the same productive organs as more evolved animals have. It is complicated but if interested read about the reproduction mechanism of bed bugs. It is quite strange. The mail bed bug jabs his sharp penis into the belly of any bug, whether female or male. If female, his genes help the her to conceive baby bed bugs, him as the father, but if male, his victim will pass his genes when he stabs a female with his penis. So it is not homosexuality as we know it. it is using othe other male to carry one’s genes.
"Dude I negated everything you said" Where did you do that? I responded to every arugment you made and all you keep repeating is that you negated everything I said and am asking "common sense questions" a 7 year old could ask but a grown adult like yourself has no responce to them.
All kinds of sexual paraphilia are the result of Pavlovian or respondent conditioning. They are not nutrual or genetically determined.
How can insects have a disorder? They have homosexual tendencies too.
Yes it comes from nature, but it is still a disorder. The fact that animals can also have similar diseases and disorders to the ones we humans have does not make those diseases and disorders normal.
"This is the only disorder that the society wants to defend. To some extent it is understandable. For centuries homosexuality has been seen as a perversion and homosexuals were abused and persecuted. Now they react by promoting it and denying that it is a disorder to compensate." Yes it is understandable but it does not give people the right to lie about it let alone demonise (and sometimes even criminalise) people that disagree with them.
Dude I negated everything you said, and as predicted you've gone back to asking common sense questions that a 7 year old could negate as well.
"One incident with a duck is not enough to prove necrophelia. Lol finding it in Cane toad recorded one time in a documentary without giving me context isn't enough." You just picked on one behaviour what about all the others?
"Yea and you can love your friend." Not like that i can`t.
"It's love. Just because it's a different form of love that doesn't mean its negated." Maybe you can say it is a form of love but it is not romantic love or if you will "spritual love". If you love your sister in the same way you love your wife then their is something wrong with you.
"You just repeat stuff said by other great authors and you don't ask logical questions. You ask common sense questions that a 7 could better answer." This is why you refuted nothing I assume because my arugments are so bad?
I see what you're saying, however with everything I have seen and read, I can't bring myself to believe that it is just a disorder (if it has that component at all).
And I have not seen homosexuals here promoting their sexuality. They have parades and events to show pride and encourage people who are hiding to come out but I have never ever witnessed gay people trying to make people they know are straight gay.
I'm sorry but if animals all over the world can exhibit overwhelming homosexual tendencies then a person can be born gay slant overwhelmingly towards homosexuality.
"There are movies and I beleive there must be books on how one can become a gay."
That's because all people are assumed to inherently be straight.
"They talk about how to become gay and how happy you will be once you "discover" your sexuality. But there is a hush in place to talk about those who have recovered from homosexuality."
Dr. Sina, Hitchens makes no secret of this. It is in his memoirs. He did not "recover" from his homosexuality. Who says he was one to begin with?
"This is the only disorder that the society wants to defend. To some extent it is understandable. For centuries homosexuality has been seen as a perversion and homosexuals were abused and persecuted. Now they react by promoting it and denying that it is a disorder to compensate."
Dr. Sina if this was a disorder, then why does an evolutionary biologist and scientists like dawkins think it has a genetic component? Why has scientific community come out and endorsed papers which state it has a genetic component? Wouldn't there at least be a visible debate raging like that with physicists and string theory if it was not the case? And why is homosexuality seen throughout the animal kingdom?
Acknowledging homosexuality as a disorder does not mean you have to discriminate against them. One of the editors of FFI was a homosexual. Unfortunatley he left us. Why should be go from one extreme to another? Why accepting homosexuality as disorder should mean abusing thier human rights and discriminating against them? Will you discriminate against fat people? The argument is a fallacy. Discriminating against homosexuals is just as evil and biggoted as discriminating against people with eating disorder.
Homosexuals are no threat to anyone, unless they start promoting their disorder, which in that case we have to come up with fact and counter that lie.
People are entitled to be wrong, I was wrong on this issue myself. In my long debate with Yameen Zakaria I said to him the same things you tell me now. But when I looked into it, I realized I had been misled and changed my views.
One incident with a duck is not enough to prove necrophelia. Lol finding it in Cane toad recorded one time in a documentary without giving me context isn't enough.
"So I can be friends with someone of my own sex my whole life its still not romantic love."
Yea and you can love your friend.
"Depends on what he means by a "form of love" but it is not love in the way a man loves a woman."
It's love. Just because it's a different form of love that doesn't mean its negated. A father's love for his son, or teenagers that fall in love is no less important than a married couple's love.
I can't argue with you. You just repeat stuff said by other great authors and you don't ask logical questions. You ask common sense questions that a 7 could better answer. Best of luck and I say this without any ego at all and no intention to offend you. Best of luck.
I didn’t know about Hitchens. But there are many people with similar stories, on both sides. In fact this is not something the gay community is hiding. There are movies and I beleive there must be books on how one can become a gay. There is no book telling you how you can become straight. It is kind of like Islam. It is a one way street. They talk about how to become gay and how happy you will be once you “discover” your sexuality. But there is a hush in place to talk about those who have recovered from homosexuality.
This is the only disorder that the society wants to defend. To some extent it is understandable. For centuries homosexuality has been seen as a perversion and homosexuals were abused and persecuted. Now they react by promoting it and denying that it is a disorder to compensate.
"That doesn't mean he was a homosexual." If people can be conditioned into it (such as Hitchens) then what makes you think those "natural gays" haven`t? This is Ali Sina`s whole arugment about homosexuality and it is valid. Even if some people were born gay (and their is no proof whatsover of that) the vast majority of gays by your own admission could very well have been conditioned into it.
"You can't counter by giving me examples of incest which animals take measures to avoid or pedophilia which I can't find any examples which are even close in the animal kingdom." See this ariticle animals practice Necrophilia and all sorts it does not mean their is a "necrophilia gene" what is this nonsense? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behavi…
"Homosexual couples stay together for years like a husband and wife would." So I can be friends with someone of my own sex my whole life its still not romantic love.
"Even Hitchens agrees that its a form of love as indicated by the link I sent you." Depends on what he means by a "form of love" but it is not love in the way a man loves a woman.
It's called experimentation. That doesn't mean he was a homosexual. He didn't have to learn it. Homosexual have sex with the opposite gender too. They enter into sham marriages. Does that mean they're straight?
There so many people throughout history who had lovers who were the same sex but weren't gay. Homosexuality has a conditioning component, but it also has a genetic one as I showed you before.
"And who said he learned it?" Really so he just thought (a hetrosexual man) I will just go and have sex with members of my own sex no one taught me that nor was i encouraged by anyone else, likely story. If he didn`t learn it he would have been homosexual all his life when he was quite obviously a hetrosexual man.
He still considers it a form of love. And who said he learned it? He never did.
Hitchens himself a former homosexual (he had gay relationships while at oxford) is evidence that homosexual behaviour can be learned and also be recovered from.
Enlightened I'm sorry but I gave you proof that it comes from nature. You can't counter by giving me examples of incest which animals take measures to avoid or pedophilia which I can't find any examples which are even close in the animal kingdom.
Sorry but you are wrong. Homosexual couples stay together for years like a husband and wife would. Even Hitchens agrees that its a form of love as indicated by the link I sent you.
"Animals all over the animal world… even insects… exhibit homosexual behavior." So animals also practice incest and pedophilia.
"Then I guess heterosexuals don't feel love either. Than I guess a father can't feel love for his son either. It is idiotic to compare a means of self pleasure with a relationship you can have with another human being." Heterosexuals feel love don`t confuse love and sexual pleasure these are 2 different things. Sure a father loves his son but not in the way he loves his wife. Do you love your sister in the same way you love your wife? The love between a husband and a wife is about emotional desire the attraction of the masculine and feminine. It is not just sexual pleasure which is what homosexuality is.
Hitchens on homosexuality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58eB2k8Kdk
"This is not a popular view and you can be seriously attacked and maligned if you uphold a view contrary to the one promoted by the leftists fascism."
Dr. Sina this is not just a political movement involving leftist fascists. I imagine the EDL doesn't believe that homosexuality is a disorder as they have a gay division. Are they leftist fascists? Geert Wilders doesn't believe it's a disorder. Is he a leftist fascist? This is a view that is resultant of data and observation not just politics.
"Where is the evidence that homosexuality comes from nature? Their isn`t any."
Animals all over the animal world… even insects… exhibit homosexual behavior.
"No the purpose of sex is reproduction."
Sex isn't solely for reproduction. It can be used as a means for achieving social heirchy in pack animals, bartering in species like bonobos, and used for pleasure.
"Exactly homosexuality is just like Masturbation it is not a form of love."
Then I guess heterosexuals don't feel love either. Than I guess a father can't feel love for his son either. It is idiotic to compare a means of self pleasure with a relationship you can have with another human being.
"Pedophilia as most scientists say comes around through abuse where as homosexuality comes from a nature." Where is the evidence that homosexuality comes from nature? Their isn`t any.
"In fact species mainly have sex for pleasure and reproduction is only a side effect to it." No the purpose of sex is reproduction.
"sex is simply for pleasure" Exactly homosexuality is just like Masturbation it is not a form of love.
"Where as homosexuality hurts no one and in fact serves a purpose to prevent overpopulation and many other good things." I could say pedophilia also prevents overpopulation of course like Ali Sina said before this is pseudo science nature does not work like that, if you overpopulate you either starve or are eaten by other species, nature does not produce "gay" or "pedophila genes" or any other such nonsense. "Also pedophilia is hardly universal and natural as homosexuality is." In the islamic world it is (and pedophiles are found in all cultures) accepted as normal because Muhammed set it as example. So no because something is "universal" does not mean it is "normal". If pedophilia became accepted in the western world one day as normal (something which they are trying)would that mean it is "normal"? The answer is no.
.BTW…does THIS sort of behavior seem normal and natural?: http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/
some other thought-provoking links about "sexual orientation": http://narth.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_roots_of_sexu…
"They wanted me to malign other religions too and were unhappy that I single out Islam"
I always assumed it was other ex-muslim who had websites and resources who did the same thing as you. Dawkins said that you were one of the only resources for Muslims looking to leave Islam. I assumed the other websites were offended that theirs wasn't being put up as well. These are just assumptions. I don't know why he took your site down.
"Discrediting someone solely on the basis of his religious belief is discrimination."
No Dr. Sina. This is rationality. Dr. Kalam is a secularist. Do you think electing a devout Muslim as president would have no effect on our domestic and foreign policy? George Bush (and I will give him credit for opening up those lines when they were previously closed) limited stem cell research that could have saved so many lives because of his religious beliefs. When these embryos are leftovers from fertility clinics and are going to be thrown away anyway where is the logic in not using them?
"He even calls himself an "Atheist for Jesus" as he thinks Christ is great teacher even in our present age."
I am glad to hear that. That is my belief too.
Yes I also think he stopped recomending my site becasue of the protest from some ex-Muslims, But what was the motivation of those ex-Musims? They wanted me to malign other religions too and were unhappy that I single out Islam. He gave in to their pressure. I never give in to the prssure of my supporters. I lost many supporters for not being politically correct for example for refusing to accept homosexuality as being genetic. This is not a popular view and you can be seriously attacked and maligned if you uphold a view contrary to the one promoted by the leftists fascism. I stick to my guns even if they may be unpopular. He should not have given in to appease his fans unless he agreed with them.
Discrediting someone solely on the basis of his religious belief is discrimination. Indians voted for Dr. Abdul Kalam, a Muslim to serve as president. I applaud that even though I strongly disagree with Islam. There is a fine line we have to thread or we will be intolerant. Regan also believed in God but he was an excellent president.
Thank you. Yes indeed it is an honor. This is a very important organization and will have a tremendous impact in the world. I am very honored to be asked to serve in the board of directors.
The difference between pedophilia and homosexuality is that pedophilia is harmful to said species and does not produce a cohesive society. Where as homosexuality hurts no one and in fact serves a purpose to prevent overpopulation and many other good things. Also pedophilia is hardly universal and natural as homosexuality is. Pedophilia as most scientists say comes around through abuse where as homosexuality comes from a nature. Homosexuality is different from pedophilia and beastiality as these two things are over all harmful to a species and are not normal and natural and found in all species as a natural biological orientation as homosexuality is but are aberations. Next the function of sexuality is reproduction and pleasure. In fact species mainly have sex for pleasure and reproduction is only a side effect to it. As for certain members of species that do not procreate such as sterile people and homosexuals sex is simply for pleasure and to create cohesive bonds. I notice that said Abrahamics say that sex is for reproduction solely and yet carry pockets full of condoms. Which only shows they are ignorant of science and reality
There are genes for homosexuality in fact most scientists now say that it is not one gene but a polygenic trait. Also homosexuality is not a learned behavior. Homosexuals always report having same sex attraction for as long as they can remember all the way from childhood. One person who is probably bisexual or experimenting on faithfreedom does not change this. As for said movie a movie does not represent reality. Also as for genes passing on as one person said a recessive allele can pass on indefinitely through out history when paired with another recessive allele. Further more homosexual genes are not genes that can be bread out but occur in all human beings as innate to them and when said genes are activated then you get a gay person. Further more none of the sexual fetishes you mention occur in every living species and serve a biological function. Homosexuality does and is inborn. You may have left Islam but you have not left the backwards denial of science and homophobia in this religion.
"There is no gene for homosexuality. Homosexuality is a learned behavior. "
Dr Sina, how can this be so when animals all over the animal kingdom have exhibited homosexual behavior?
"
"Homosexuals know this. When I had a TV and used to waste my time watching it, I saw a movie showing a woman who was unhappy in her marriage. Her lesbian friends gave her comfort and affection and invited her to their bedroom. At first she was appalled, thne hesitant and eventually she gave in and the moral of the story was that she found her "happiness" as a lesbian. They promote homosexuality overtly and then they say it is in your genes."
Dr. Sina that's a movie! Why are you taking this to be fact? I lived with two homosexuals for a year and I never once did anything gay with them. Kids grows up with gay parents and they turn out to be straight. Yes homosexuality can be conditioned but that's not the entire truth.
"Dawkins is lying. There is no homosexuality gene and if there were any it would have died. "
Dr. Sina, why do you accuse a scientist having a discussion about genetics and postulating theories as lying?
"A gay uncle cannot pass his gay genes. What a load of nonsense."
I am a student of genetics. A recessive allele can be passed on indefinitely throughout history and only when it is paired with another recessive allele can it present itself. Furthermore it can be much more complicated than that. It could be the result of a combination of genes not just one.
Dr.Sina you deserve respect for your clear thinking .its a sham that you can't do your work in the open.I wish you live for 150 years of course with good health .good luck
I am sorry but this is utterly nonsense. This is not science and if I had not heard it in a video I would have refused to believe someone like Dawkins would say such things.
There is no gene for homosexuality. Homosexuality is a learned behavior. It can be learned at infancy or at adult age. Anyone can become homosexual. A few years ago I said this and everyone in my forum attacked me. One homosexual came to my defense. He said he had no homosexual tendencies ever. Then he started looking at gay porn, first for laugh and gradually he became curious and eventually a gay. His comments must still be there in the old forum of faithfreedom.org
Homosexuals know this. When I had a TV and used to waste my time watching it, I saw a movie showing a woman who was unhappy in her marriage. Her lesbian friends gave her comfort and affection and invited her to their bedroom. At first she was appalled, thne hesitant and eventually she gave in and the moral of the story was that she found her “happiness” as a lesbian. They promote homosexuality overtly and then they say it is in your genes.
Dawkins is lying. There is no homosexuality gene and if there were any it would have died. A gay uncle cannot pass his gay genes. What a load of nonsense. Are
Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Frotteurism, Pedophilia, Sexual Masochism, Sexual Sadism, Transvestic Fetishism, Voyeurism, zoophilia, and necrophilia also genetic?
"Shouldn’t we vote for a person who is more qualified rather than look at their beliefs?" Of course I would rather vote for a sane atheist than Rick Perry but unfortunately their aren`t any well not unless you class Obama and Ron Paul as sane which I don`t. So yes I will compromise and support Perry America needs a strong leader not criminals like Obama or Ron Paul, but I will still fight tooth and nail against christianity and any attempt to teach "intelligent design" in public schools.
"Judaism and Christianity are practiced and understood in a different way than they were two thousand years ago and 1000 year ago, respectively." So what are you going to take the command to stone to death out the bible? You can`t do that, it is a lie when they say those religions have "reformed" the only reason christians and jews are not as violent as muslims is because they have been pushed back by secularism. Give Israel to the rabbis and see how "peaceful" they understand their sacred text.
"Why? It is because I refuse to condemn all faiths equally." What about this very concept of blind faith do you condemn that equally (which is the source of all the evil nonsense)? Sure God is just 1 delusion amoung a countless number but what about delusion itself (whether believed in by atheists or religious people)?
"But his blanket rejection of all faiths and bundling together is what results in people like Sundried Atheist. Many ex-Muslims flock to Dawkins camp because even though they no longer believe in Islam they still have the hatred of other faiths in them."
Dr. Sina. Dawkins openly says Islam is one of the great evils in the world. He has said on numerous occasions that he thinks not all religions are the same and Islam is the worst of the lot. He even calls himself an "Atheist for Jesus" as he thinks Christ is great teacher even in our present age. In these two clips he praises Christianity for allowing dissent and says Islam is the most evil out of all religions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhYus6TiGEE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M
As for him taking down your site, I always believed it was because it was because of protests from other ex-muslims as I have previously read.
"Dawkins believes that anyone who prays to an imaginary god in heaven should not serve as president because he or she is delusional. "
Dr. Sina these are beliefs. I openly disagree with many of yours on Health Care, Global Warming, and Homosexuality. Your views are you views for a reason. They do not make you intolerant. Furthermore a religious president would be influenced by his beliefs and take action not agreeable to the masses because of his beliefs i.e. stem cell research.
See this http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/pedophilia…. so now they are even claiming now pedophilia is not a mental disorder. Quote from that ariticle "many pedophiles are not distressed by their erotic interest, aside from the fear of incarceration. Some celebrate their interests, organize politically, and publish magazines or books." Isn`t this what you claim about homosexuals? What next pedophila gene? What those that believe in the "gay gene" hypothesis need to explain is how is it any different to pedophila or bestiality? The function of sexuality (as nature intended it)is reproduction.
Great debate. She has responded using the same tactics of ignoring your arguements and using diversion to divert away from your arguments; you can't teach old dog new tricks as the saying goes, but others who read this can see how hateful, deceptive, and cunning she really is.
Dawkins does not say anything anti-Semitic. But his blanket rejection of all religions and bundling them together is what results in people like Sundried Atheist. Many ex-Muslims flock to Dawkins camp because even though they no longer believe in Islam they still have the hatred of other faiths in them. I am not championing anti-religion cause. My cause is anti-hate. In many ways these two causes overlap. In many instances religions promote hate. However, intolerance and hate are not the exclusive domains of religion. Atheists can also be intolerant and hateful.
Dawkins will most certainly respond to Sundried Atheist in the same language that I did. However, all religions are not the same. Judaism and Christianity are practiced and understood in a different way than they were 2000 years ago and 1000 year ago, respectively. We must acknowledge this difference. Jews and Christians do not promote hate. Of course exceptions exist as the two rabbis who interacted with me show.
Dawkins believes that anyone who prays to an imaginary god in the skies should not serve as president because he or she is delusional. Dawkins have no difficulty condemning Sarah Palin for praying and Rick Perry for believing in creation, but stops short of denouncing a criminal like Obama even though this charlatan also claims he believes in God, because Dawkins knows Obama’s faith is as fake as his birth certificate. This is intolerance. What makes this stance any different from Muhammad’s instruction to not take unbelievers as guardians and rulers? Shouldn’t we vote for a person who is more qualified rather than look at their beliefs?
Dawkins used to recommend Faithfreedom.org as a source of information for Muslims. He no longer does that. Why? It is because I refuse to condemn all faiths equally. In fact I don’t see the belief in God as the problem at all. I see conviction and self-righteousness as the problem. Both religionists and atheists can fall into that trap.
Dr. Sina,
I am appalled by your arguments against Dawkins. Since when did Richard Dawkins say anything antisemitic or anything against women EVER? The man criticizes Judaism not Jews. Do you think his response to Sundried Atheist would be any less than yours? Sundried Atheist is a hatemonger who is responsible for his own actions. Dawkins is no more responsible for that idiot using for his words for his own agenda as Breivik using Fjordman, Spencer, and Gellars words for his own psychotic reasons.
This is very upsetting.
Dr. Sina,
Richard Dawkins on how homosexuality is in our genes and not just psychological:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHDCAllQgS0
"Is there any sense in Don't Ask Don't Tell?" Yes why do I want to know if you`re homosexual not? "Gay pride" marches are okay but I can only imagine the outrage if ever a "hetrosexual pride" march ever took place. Let alone the reaction of the feminists if ever a movement celebrating manhood and masculinity ever came about. You would never hear the end of it.
Islamophobe (is-slahm-o-fohb) – A non-Muslim who knows more than they are supposed to know about Islam.
Congratulations on your appointment to the board of SION.
[youtube ua8f-HcgebE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua8f-HcgebE youtube]
See evidence around 8:00 in video that verse 2:256 has been abrogated and no longer valid.
The verse 2:256; there is no compulsion in religion…has been ABROGATED and is now null and void by later ayats.
Either Shelia is naive about that or is lying.
Verse 2:256 abrogated;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eJvNUA0r4
more on abrogation of verse 2:256…most people…even some Muslims don't even know that verse 2:256 HAS BEEN ABROGATED…like Shelia, unless she is lying;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua8f-HcgebE
Abrogation proves the Quran is false and corrupt because how come Allah didn't know he was making a mistake in the 1st place that he changed it later on in the same book?
As you can see in the last video there are SO MANY abrogated ayats that it proves that the Quran is false and Allah is fake because it means Allah made MANY MISTAKES the 1st time and in the span of 20 years Muhammad created it.
The Quran itself is anti-Jewish and anti-Christian and clearly states its hate towards those two groups in the surahs.
Ali, Allah is a Zionist and the Quran is a Zionist book. In the Quran Allah commanded Moses and the Israelis to destroy the Palestinians of that time, who are not the Arabs who claim to be Palestinians today. Allah became upset with Israelis for not wiping out the Palestinians that he punished them and made them wander, but Allah still assigned Israel to them and said that Israelis were the direct linage of the prophets of God. Proving Muhammad was a false prophet because he was not from the lineage of Jacob.
Islamic sources and biographies said about Muhammad;
1. That his own nursemaid thought Muhammad was possessed by demons as a child.
2. Muhammad's own tribe thought Muhammad was a possessed poet.
3. Muhammad HIMSELF believed he was possessed by demons when he 1st had his 1st revelation. He even tried to kill himself, but was prevented by his wife and her cousin who lied to him to prevent him from committing suicide.
4. Muhammad later said he was possessed and controlled by Satan when he bowed and prayed to Uzza, Al-Lat, and Manat, the three daughters of Allah. Muhammad later admitted that Satan had controlled him.
5. Later when Muhammad was older and still the prophet a mere Jewish man cast a black magic demonic spell upon Muhammad controlling him for several months.
…and this was not written by "Islamophobes" but by some of the devout greatest Muslim scholars and biographers, the last one was confirmed by Muhammad's child bride Aysha.
I know Muslims believe in demons (jinns) and Satan…so how can they believe what Muhammad said if he was documented as being possessed by Satan and demons on several occasions?
It is only when such a species overemphasizes procreation do we see such a problem. Further more you are false for nature makes both asexual and homosexual people in order to stop overpopulation.
Further more psychologists declared that homosexuality was not a mental disorder because they see that it is normal, natural and causes no harm. All major psychological and scientific groups say this. The only arguments against homosexuality and really the reason that homosexuality was classified as a disorder in the first place came from religion in particular the Abrahamic religion. Obesity causes harm to an individual homosexuality does not. Further more if all members of a species were heterosexual and procreating this would be suicidal as it would lead to overpopulation. All major psychologists and biologists all say that homosexuality is natural, normal and not a disorder and really was accepted by most Pagan societies. It seems that though you left Islam you still retained your Islamic homophobia (heterosexism
You are wrong again all species do not try to reproduce as much as possible. Many species try to have sex as much as possible but not all of these sexual actions lead to procreation. Also Professor Dawkins also says that homosexuality is not a disorder and has purposed many explanations as to how it occurs. Next you are correct at that if a species overpopulates they become eaten or starve however homosexuals as well as sterile people exist in such species in order to prevent such an outcome. )
All of these things self loathing, self destruction IE came from the patriarchal Christian brainwashing imposed on homosexuals. In societies where homophobia does not exist and on gay people who have not been indoctrinated to think that there is something wrong with them, they virtually experience no self destructive problems. Further more the difference between throwing feces and homosexuality is that throwing feces does not produce a cohesive society and spreads disease. Homosexuality has been shown to be beneficial by preventing overpopulation, creating happy romantic bonds and even other side effects such as giveing parents to unwanted kids. This is especially seen in penguins.
Interesting. Thank you.
Great informative article
A Muslim can never be secular. Instead, u should have written "a secular person/Indian/human being"
No, he has certainly read Quran and is aware of Islam, yet he does not do what Quran and Muhammad require a Muslim to do.
He is a disillusioned person. Like Ali Sina, he perfectly knows what Islam stands for.
Dear Soham,
A person who firmly considers each and every word of Quran as God-inspired and tries to live as per Quranic injunctions, and believes in brutal Allah and sees Muhammad as the best creation of Allah and follows Muhammad in every walk of life is entitled to be called a Muslim.
Now do you think the personality of matches with the above description of a Muslim? Having a name 'Abdul Kalam' does not mean that he is a Muslim. He is a Muslim in name only. If he prepares such a Missile by which he destroys the whole of India or USA, then he can be called a true Muslim.
Once again I cannot deny anything you said regardinr, Mrs. Musaji. She is sadly a lost hypocritical soal.
I'm not sure I agree about all the homosexual stuff. But I will say this. I have come in contact with multiple "same sex" people. I've had extended conversations with many. I have found them to be freedom loving and not so "gay" as any other people. No homosexual parade demands the death of heterosexuals. Conversely Islam demands the death of the unbelievers.
Having read Ali Sina's paragraph on homosexuality I remembered Abdur Rahman Muhammad saying that the International Institute for Islamic Thought popularized the "Islamophobia" term in imitation of the homosexual activists who used the word "Homophobia" to criminalize their opponents.
For me these terms "homophobe", "islamophobe" are purely IDEOLOGICAL slurs whose purpose is to demonize opponents to the PC (politically correct) version of islam and to what I would call the "Rose Ideology" which seeks to impose homosexual mariages and gay prides while they perfectly have the right to indifference! They should be banned from our everyday vocabulary.
Speaking about Abdur Rahman Muhammad here's two links about him: http://pjmedia.com/blog/from-an-actual-moderate-m… http://freethoughtnation.com/contributing-writers…
Sina had made his points so clear,and only the stubborn and self-blinded Muslims would deny its truths.Unless one is an insane and a stupid person,just like the Pharisees,after having seen Jesus did miracles and yet chose to oppose him.How blind can you get?
Dr. Sina,
Above you mentioned there is no such thing as homophobia. Below I gave you the examples of "don't ask don't tell" and gay men not being allowed to donate blood. Also why did is it gay men weren't allowed to serve in the boyscouts? Why did Congressman Barney Frank have to wait years to come out? Why was Matt Shepard murdered? Why did Matthew Guzman committ those murders? Why was Lawrence King murdered? Homophobia does exist Dr. Sina.
Pamela Gellar just put up the FBI hate crimes statistics of 2010:
1230 Incidents were recorded as hate crimes against gays. More than whites, asians, latinos, and almost the same as the sum of total combined religions
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2…
Check your facts — you are very incorrect regarding homosexuality. in 1935, Freud wrote:
"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime, and cruelty too…."
In 1973, the weight of empirical data, coupled with changing social norms and the development of a politically active gay community in the United States, led the Board of Directors of the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).
see: http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_…
The fact is that defacto Kalam is a brahmin Iyer
They call him Kalam Iyer ( Iyer is a caste name for Tamil Brahmin )
He was helped in his early childhood education by a Brahmin neighbor
He reads Hindu scriptures. He follows Hindu practises like being a vegetarian.
He has openly condemned the muslim army invasion of India of 1000 years ago.
He is close personal friend of the Hindu Sankaracharya ( Hindu pope )
After reading this insightful, informative—and "politically incorrect" piece—I think Ali and I may be "brothers from different mothers." [I don't agree 100% with every sentence, but what brothers agree 100% of the time with one other?] I am in my 50s. When I was in grade school (in America) Islamists were referred to as "Mohammedans" in my history books: I think it is a more effective term to use in describing those people who devotedly follow the teachings of Muhammed. Then, one can objectively look at his teachings and consider their validity. Something that EVERYONE should consider is that while Jesus Christ didn't write The Bible—or even the New Testament—Muhammad wrote the very book that proclaims HIM to be the true Prophet of God and infallible "revealer" of God's Will and laws. How convenient.
Actually, homosexuality was designated as a disorder by the Psychiatric Association because of the manifested consequences (self-loathing, guilt, self-destructiveness, anxiety, suicidal tendencies, etc) of individuals who had a pervasive and/or compulsive urge to engage in sexual activity with people of the same gender. In a homosexual society, esperiencing those urges—and acting on them—would be considered "normal" and "natural", and would not cause inner distress; but we live in a heterosexual society—and "society" determines what choice of behaviors are moral and normal and "socially" acceptable. The Scientific "jury" is still out on why some people experience—and act on—sexual attraction for members of the same biological gender. In the BIG picture, it doesn't matter why homosexual activity is observed in other animal species, like Bonobos. They also throw feces at one another: Should we then consider it normal and natural—or desireable—for humans to throw feces at one another?
This is not how evolution works. The claim that there is a mechanism that comes into play to prevent over population is as unscientific as intelligent design. There is no such mechanism in any species. All species try to reproduce as much as it is possible. Genes don’t have that kind of altruism and don’t practice restraint to give competing genes a better chance. The claim is unscientific. It is hocus pocus. That is not how genes work. Prf. Dawkins made that clear over three decades ago in his book The Selfish Gene.
Nature controls the population of all the species in a very different way. If a species is overly populous, they starve or they become eaten by other species. The claim is false, utterly false. But assuming it were true, nature would have made some people asexual not homosexual.
Homosexuality is a disorder. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, in its 3rd edition had classified homosexuality as a disorder. They removed it from the 4th edition. That institution, like all other human institutions is governed by politics. Many psychiatrists are homosexual and with so much campaign to promote homosexuality, the declassification of homosexuality is understandable. But the fact is that homosexuality is a disorder just as obesity is a disorder. It does not matter that one in every three American is obese or one in every five or ten is homosexual. Even if all the people become obese or homosexual, which would be suicidal for our species, they are still disorders. They become the norm but the norm would not be what the nature had intended.
Dr. Sina,
I lived with two homosexuals for a year and have been exposed to many more because of my time with those two. They are very happy and it is the ones who haven't come out of the closet that are unhappiest. Homophobia exists. Is there any sense in Don't Ask Don't Tell? Is there any sense in denying gay men the right to give blood?
The definition of an Islamophobe: A person who believes that:
ALL people must have human rights
and
ALL people must be equal under the Law
I'm grateful that in the Bible, God gives women a place of honor and respect! Women were also leaders.
God's Biblical requirement for ALL humanity is KINDNESS:
Bible, Jewish Scriptures, Micah 6:8 And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God.
Jesus said in the Bible, in Matthew 7:12 Treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
On the matter of homosexuality, the word "G.A.Y." came into being in Sanfrancisco, USA. And actually meant "Good As You". It's an interesting point that the judges in the UK are not allowed to use the word "homosexual" in a court room but must use the words "Same Sex" or "Gay". Such is the pollution of word meanings in our society these days.
This comment is an answer to your dilemma about APJ Abdul Kalam. The fact is – Islam makes muslims but muslims do not make Islam. Muslims can choose from Islam what they want to believe, however, that is not complete Islam. I will quote what the great Indian Goldie Nayak says – The man in Abdul Kalam is stronger than the muslim in him. The moment the muslim in him overpowers the man, he will be no better than Osama Bin Laden. JIhadCorp Team | jihadcorp at gmail dot com
However Islamophobia is a false dichotomy as ideologies do not deserve respect. They should be critiqued and you have the freedom to hate them as you wish. Also homosexuality is also something that is inborn and is a natural group deserving of protection from hate where as Islam is an ideology and ideologies do not deserve any protection in fact they deserve the opposite. Also as I have always said a religion which is homophobic and gynophobic does not deserve a special phobia for themselves. Though I would prefer the term heterosexist for those who hate and fear homosexuals because like sexism and racism it shows that said people such as yourself hate homosexuals as opposed to just fear them. As a Pagan I hate Judaism, Christianity and Islam and I fight tirelessly for their complete eradication from this world as they are homophobic, sexist and even racist cults that encourage barbarity to disbelievers and hope that humanity returns to rational Paganism and Atheism.
Christians, Jews and Muslims have lied about numerous things in science from the naturalness of homosexuality, to evolution, to the heliocentric model and countless other things. Also homosexuals who accept their gayness usually are very happy. It is the ones that do not and embrace Abrahamic hogwash that are unhappy. Also homophobia is a accurate word unlike Islamophobia. Homophobia means a hatred or fear of homosexuals. It accurately describes Abrahamics and Abrahamic like religions in their hatred of an innocent group.
While I agree with much of what you say about Islam. You are wrong homosexuality is not a disorder. All major psychologists, scientists etc all say that it is not a disorder. We know that it is a universal biological orientation found in all species and meant to prevent overpopulation. Our Pagan ancestors knew this. The only reason that it was ever considered a disorder is because of the evil Christians getting a strangle hold on the sciences.
This lady is very stupid.. i doubt she did not read quran yet.. how can true human defend quran and islam? This educated lady is real enemy of humanity..
Islam cannot be attributed to his success….
APJ Abdul Kalam is a secular Muslim. I think he has not read the Quran yet and maybe quite ignorant about his faith 🙂
Hi Ali Sina,
In your book, you have talked about myth of persecution of muslims. You have quoted some examples of Muslims who were persecuted and how Muslims exaggerate such claims. But when I searched Wikipedia, I found more examples of Muslims being persecuted by Meccans. They say:
Khabbab ibn al-Aratt – lied on burning sand, had hot metal put on his head,
Abu Fakih – tied and dragged on burning sand, had a very heavy stone put on his chest [3]
Abu Fuhayra
Al-Nahdiah – tortured [2]
Umm Ubays – tortured [2]
Lubaynah– extensively beaten [2]
Zinnira – beaten until she lost her eyesight temporarily [3].
Umm Kulthum bint Muhammad – was divorced on orders of Abu Lahab [1]
Ruqayyah bint Muhammad – was divorced on orders of Abu Lahab [1]
Sa'd ibn Ubadah – tortured [1]
They quote the references from sealed nectar, millenium biography and witnesspioneer.org. So what is your reply to these other examples of persecution of Muslims?
Ali I agree with everything you say …. but I am still unable to understand if Islam is so cruel how come there are people like Dr APJ Abdul Kalam (hope you know him) who are Muslim. I am unable to hate Muslims because India if filled with Muslims like him though not of his stature. I met him once, he is a saint though he is a rocket (missile) scientist which is a paradox.
Ali this lady is th best example of true muslim (liar).